Speaker 1: Welcome to How the Money. I'm Joel and I'm Matt,
Speaker 1: and today we're discussing why fees are the worst and
Speaker 1: how to avoid them. They're the worst, Yeah, Joel, fees man,
Speaker 1: they are truly at the worst. We're gonna talk about
Speaker 1: why they are the worst. We're gonna talk through some
Speaker 1: of the different fees that we often get suckered into paying,
Speaker 1: and then we're gonna round the show outs by discussing
Speaker 1: some of the different ways that we can make sure
Speaker 1: to avoid paying those fees in our lives. I like it,
Speaker 1: all right, but something else. It stinks almost as much
Speaker 1: as fees. Student loans, all right, let's talk about that.
Speaker 1: Those are also pretty terrible. It's so bad. And there's
Speaker 1: this new Ashton Kutcher series, Matt. I don't know if
Speaker 1: you've seen it or heard about it. I mean, you
Speaker 1: say Ashton Kulcher. He's not in the show right right now,
Speaker 1: but he like produced it or helped fund it or whatever.
Speaker 1: It's part of it. Yeah, he's part He's part of
Speaker 1: the creation of this show called Going from Broke. And
Speaker 1: I was gonna like tease that we were going to
Speaker 1: have Ashton on the show or something, but I can't
Speaker 1: even do that with a straight face. I wish that
Speaker 1: would be kind of cool, but it's not gonna happen.
Speaker 1: Well with all the movie business in Atlanta, yali Wood
Speaker 1: as they call it, Ashton Kutcher has actually been in
Speaker 1: our neighborhood, that's true. Did you get a story about
Speaker 1: him at our local ballet studio? I did. All the
Speaker 1: moms in there, We're taking their daughters and sons to
Speaker 1: ballet class, were like, what I freaking up in the
Speaker 1: neighborhod Ballet studio there as a dad, you know, with
Speaker 1: his kid. Yeah. Yeah. So. But he also has created
Speaker 1: this show, Going From Broke, and it's about these two
Speaker 1: financial experts are going in to help people who are
Speaker 1: just way down with student loans. And so I wanted
Speaker 1: to mention too an interesting thing. You can watch the
Speaker 1: series for free on Sony's Crackle service, which is a
Speaker 1: service where you can watch stuff freak. So Going from
Speaker 1: Broke you can watch it without having any sort of
Speaker 1: paid subscription. And when I heard about this and I
Speaker 1: saw that there's a new series where these financial experts
Speaker 1: are going through to help people overwhelmed the student loans,
Speaker 1: it kind of surprised me. That that was something that
Speaker 1: people wanted to watch on TV, but also at the
Speaker 1: same time it kind of brought to the forefront that Wow,
Speaker 1: I mean, I know that this is a problem. I
Speaker 1: know that this is just a huge issue right in
Speaker 1: our day and age. Like I feel like it's a
Speaker 1: headline piece constantly about how much there is in student
Speaker 1: loan debt, specific cases of people being overwhelmed, it being
Speaker 1: hard to find, uh, student loan forgiveness and so, yeah,
Speaker 1: this show is obviously of interest. It's it's of interest
Speaker 1: to people to see how it's affecting other people, but
Speaker 1: at the same time, hopefully get some tips and tricks
Speaker 1: from this show on how to tackle their student loans. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I mean, and they're not only just talking about student
Speaker 1: loans and how that is affecting our generation, right, but
Speaker 1: I mean they're they're broadly speaking to just personal finance
Speaker 1: in general, how we can often make poor decisions when
Speaker 1: it comes to what we do with our money. And
Speaker 1: it's just really interesting too that just personal finance in
Speaker 1: general is it's kind of taking the spotlight rights. It's
Speaker 1: center stage, and people want to see how other people
Speaker 1: are spending their money and how you know, they're doing
Speaker 1: poor things with their money. But at the same time,
Speaker 1: hopefully they are able to watch the shows and learn something, uh,
Speaker 1: learn something to actually help them in their current situation,
Speaker 1: sort of like we do on this show. You know,
Speaker 1: we're not just two guys talking here. We're hoping to
Speaker 1: actually improve your financial life. If this is you right
Speaker 1: now listening to this podcast, yeah, you're listening because you
Speaker 1: want your finances to look different, whether you're doing well,
Speaker 1: and you want like little ways to help you get
Speaker 1: further and do even better and invest more wisely or
Speaker 1: cut back on expenses or stop paying needless fees right
Speaker 1: whatever it is, or you're just kind of on the
Speaker 1: beginning path and you're kind of figuring out what some
Speaker 1: of these terms mean, and you want to get started
Speaker 1: and just become a little bit better at making decisions
Speaker 1: to kind of get you started in being decent with
Speaker 1: personal finances. I mean, I think whatever position you're in
Speaker 1: while you're listening, we want to to help you wherever
Speaker 1: you are. And Matt on that no of student loans
Speaker 1: and that show kind of really tackles that in a
Speaker 1: big way. Well, I wanted to mention that student loan
Speaker 1: refinance rates are super low right now. As the FED
Speaker 1: has been cutting interest rates, well, guess what's dropped student
Speaker 1: loan refinancing rates, And so a lot of our listeners
Speaker 1: might qualify for a lower rate on a student loan.
Speaker 1: And speaking of our topic today, fees, well, there are
Speaker 1: no fees associated with refinancing your student loans with reputable lenders,
Speaker 1: so it's worth checking out. And we have an article
Speaker 1: on our site where our student loan expert Megan she
Speaker 1: wrote about refinancing your student loan and when it makes sense,
Speaker 1: and so we'll post that in the show notes as well.
Speaker 1: But I just want to put that on people's radar.
Speaker 1: If you are burdened by your student loan payments and
Speaker 1: you're looking to potentially pay them off more quickly at
Speaker 1: a lower interest rate, well, refinancing in this current low
Speaker 1: interest rate environment might make sense for you. Yeah, while
Speaker 1: it sucks to actually have a ton of student loans,
Speaker 1: I think it's awesome that you can refinance for free.
Speaker 1: Unlike refinancing a mortgage on a home, which costs a
Speaker 1: ton of money, a lot of money, that is not
Speaker 1: the case for student loans. That's true. And Joel real
Speaker 1: quick before we launched into talking about fees. Let's introduce
Speaker 1: our beer for this episode, which is Bourbon Barrel Dark
Speaker 1: Apparition and this is by Jackie Ohs out of Ohio. Joel,
Speaker 1: this is one intimidating label right here. It is. I'm
Speaker 1: looking forward to sharing this one with you and talking
Speaker 1: about it at the end of the episode thanks to
Speaker 1: Art and Mackenzie all the lovely folks up there at
Speaker 1: that brewery. Yeah man, they sent us some good beers.
Speaker 1: Really excited to have this one on the show with you.
Speaker 1: All right, but let's get to the topic of hand
Speaker 1: for this episode, Matt, fees are the worst, but then
Speaker 1: we also have to talk about how to avoid them.
Speaker 1: Fees are, of course a major pain in our lives.
Speaker 1: They pop up everywhere, and Matt, we recently talked about
Speaker 1: saving money on lodging while traveling. We discussed the annoyance
Speaker 1: that urban fees and resort fees, all these kind of
Speaker 1: strange and interesting fees that hotels are starting to build
Speaker 1: into their pricing, that they seem to be popping up
Speaker 1: all over the place and randomly, and a lot more
Speaker 1: so recently, what parking fees and WiFi fees abound too.
Speaker 1: When we're booking hotels. But fees are prominent across our
Speaker 1: higher financial lives now, and we have to be aware
Speaker 1: of how and when we encounter them so we can
Speaker 1: be vigilant and intentional to avoid these fees whenever possible. Yeah,
Speaker 1: when we also specifically talked about fees in regards to
Speaker 1: your retirement accounts, paying a commission to a broker for
Speaker 1: an actively managed fund and paying sky high fund expenses
Speaker 1: that'll eat away at your wealth substantially. If you want
Speaker 1: to know more about that, you can go back and
Speaker 1: check out episode ninety one. But today we'll be covering
Speaker 1: other fees that we encounter around us in our day
Speaker 1: to day lives. Yeah, fees are prevalent. They're everywhere, right,
Speaker 1: There's cancelation fees, administrative charges, resort fees. Like we mentioned,
Speaker 1: fees have all sorts of different lingo ascribed to them
Speaker 1: in an attempt to lessen their blow, but they're pervasive nonetheless. Right.
Speaker 1: Ticketmaster charges up to thirty seven percent of the face
Speaker 1: value of a ticket in fees. And it's not just one,
Speaker 1: it's multiple, including fees to print your tickets at home.
Speaker 1: They charge you money to use your own printer. And
Speaker 1: I know, I mean I don't think I am gonna
Speaker 1: have trouble finding other people out there listening that have
Speaker 1: had a terrible run in with Ticketmaster. Right. Also, don't
Speaker 1: think Ticketmaster is going to advertise on our podcast. Probably
Speaker 1: not so. Yeah, the fees for Ticketmaster are just incredible,
Speaker 1: and I think Live Nation too. Right, there's these companies
Speaker 1: out there selling tickets, charging exorbitant fees and just annoying
Speaker 1: us all to death in the process. In airlines, it
Speaker 1: turns out Matt last year made seven point eight billion
Speaker 1: dollars on fees alone. So that's not including the price
Speaker 1: of airfare, that's not including the other ways they make money.
Speaker 1: It's literally just the fees that they charge for getting
Speaker 1: an assigned seat now or for wanting to be able
Speaker 1: to sit next to your wife or your family. There
Speaker 1: are all these fees that were charged now by the airlines,
Speaker 1: and they're racking up by charging us massive fees all
Speaker 1: the time. They're not alone, but man, they are definitely
Speaker 1: one of the major culprits. And these fees they span
Speaker 1: lots of different industries. They are incredibly prevalent and fees, man,
Speaker 1: they are also really sneaky. One of the reasons that
Speaker 1: fees are becoming more ubiquitous is because our shopping behavior
Speaker 1: makes us susceptible to them. Right. A study of StubHub
Speaker 1: fees showed that consumers spent more if they weren't shown
Speaker 1: the fees until the end of the purchase. Right. Doesn't
Speaker 1: that sound sort of like the amount that ticket Master
Speaker 1: or StubHub charges in addition to what the actual ticket costs.
Speaker 1: Sounds kind of familiar, buddy. Maybe they're like buddies talking
Speaker 1: on the phone. Who knows. It's like, hey, you're in
Speaker 1: a charge this year. But basically we get frustrated and
Speaker 1: we're at the end of that entire process, and we
Speaker 1: still click by because we've already kind of committed that
Speaker 1: time to that purchase, and you probably still want to
Speaker 1: go to the concert. You have to use a poker term,
Speaker 1: your pot committed at that point, Right, You've gone through
Speaker 1: the whole process, you've got them in the cart, and
Speaker 1: then you see the fees and you just breathe that
Speaker 1: angry sigh that you know what they've done it to
Speaker 1: me again, I guess I'm paying indeed, Man, Yeah, it's
Speaker 1: that bait and switch. But here's the thing. If it
Speaker 1: had been price youre upfront on the friend end, before
Speaker 1: we had committed to that purchase, I think there's a
Speaker 1: chance that we would leave immediately. Makes me think of
Speaker 1: the frog in boiling water analogy, right, Like, if that
Speaker 1: frog would have gotten in at the very beginning and
Speaker 1: it was boiling, frog would have hopped out. He's like, hey,
Speaker 1: no idiot, I'm even I'm not paying for those tickets.
Speaker 1: But because we're committed by that point, right, Like, we've
Speaker 1: already spent five minutes clicking on squares with stop signs
Speaker 1: in them, and you know, we know we like we
Speaker 1: can picture ourselves at that concert, or we can picture
Speaker 1: ourselves like at that soccer match we proved our humanity
Speaker 1: to the capture robotic machine exactly, Like, I'm not turning
Speaker 1: back at this point. I'm gonna do it. But that's
Speaker 1: just another example of us sort of getting worn down
Speaker 1: by paying these ridiculous fees. I think when they kind
Speaker 1: of do the bait and switch like that at the
Speaker 1: very end, that is just one of the absolute worst
Speaker 1: ways to experience fees, when different companies pulling over on
Speaker 1: you like that, right, and when there's not that price transparency. Yeah, Matt,
Speaker 1: And even as we've become accustomed to seeing more fees
Speaker 1: in our lives. Well, there are still ways that we
Speaker 1: can mount a legitimate opposition to encroaching fees that we
Speaker 1: see that pop up, and it's your money, it's my money, right,
Speaker 1: what are we going to do about it? Though? There
Speaker 1: are actual steps that we can take to lessen the
Speaker 1: impact of fees in our life and to avoid paying fees.
Speaker 1: And so we've got some really important steps for you
Speaker 1: to to implement into your life in order to pay
Speaker 1: fewer fees. But first we're gonna talk about some of
Speaker 1: the most egregious feast and how to combat those right
Speaker 1: after the break. All right, Joe, we are back from
Speaker 1: the break. We're here to talk about why fees, why
Speaker 1: they totally suck man, And let's go ahead now and
Speaker 1: discuss some the most prominent fees that you'll likely encounter
Speaker 1: and how you can never pay them. Let's first talk
Speaker 1: about overdraft fees. This is probably the most egregious fee
Speaker 1: that's out there. This is when a three dollar coffee
Speaker 1: could actually cost you thirty five or forty bucks. Since
Speaker 1: the average overdraft fee is thirty three dollars and thirty
Speaker 1: six cents, Americans paid thirty four billion dollars with a
Speaker 1: B not Yeah, thirty four billion dollars in overdraft fees
Speaker 1: a couple of years ago. That is just an insane
Speaker 1: amount of money going to the banks. Man. This is
Speaker 1: part of the reason why we prefer not to use
Speaker 1: a debit card at all, and instead we prefer credit cards.
Speaker 1: But you can avoid these fees by opting out of
Speaker 1: your bank overdraft protection service. Just make sure that you
Speaker 1: are aware that oftentimes they can use tricky language to
Speaker 1: try to get you to sign up to protect your money. Yeah,
Speaker 1: they try to make an opt out look like an
Speaker 1: opt in or vice versa. They try to make it
Speaker 1: seem like the overdraft protection services is what you want,
Speaker 1: but that's not what you want. You prefer for your
Speaker 1: debit card to get declined in a situation where you
Speaker 1: didn't have the funds to cover the purchase, because that
Speaker 1: would avoid that pesky overdraft fee. And if you don't
Speaker 1: even realize that you're doing it, you might purchase four
Speaker 1: or five six things that day and you could rack
Speaker 1: up a hundred fifty a hundred and eighty dollars in
Speaker 1: overdraft fees in just a day or two of not
Speaker 1: realizing that your balance was low. That's a lot of beer. Yeah,
Speaker 1: if you're making that many beer purchases, right, Yeah, that's
Speaker 1: expensive beer too. We like expensive beer, but not expensive
Speaker 1: beer in the form where you're paying fees exactly. Another
Speaker 1: really pesky fee that you're going to encounter that's really
Speaker 1: prominent are a t M fees. Well, I mean, honestly,
Speaker 1: how often are we using a t MC these days?
Speaker 1: I feel like it's something that is far less relevant
Speaker 1: in our lives. There's more, it's so much easier for
Speaker 1: us to pay with our credit cards or with even
Speaker 1: mobile payments. But if you do like to hit up
Speaker 1: the a t M from time to time, we'll do
Speaker 1: business with a bank that reimburses a t M fees.
Speaker 1: A lot of banks have networks of free machines that
Speaker 1: you can use online. Banks in particular often have access
Speaker 1: to like the All point Network of a t M
Speaker 1: s that are available at most cvous and target stores.
Speaker 1: And like with Ally, you can use any a t M,
Speaker 1: but they'll only reimburse up the ten bucks of a
Speaker 1: t M search charges every month. Yeah, it's limited, right, Joel.
Speaker 1: I use Ally, and so if I need some cash,
Speaker 1: make sure to make it raine hundreds of dollars at once,
Speaker 1: why not just to avoid that fee, or instead you
Speaker 1: can go with a Schwab because they reimburse all of
Speaker 1: your a t M fees, which is fantastic. Yeah, And sometimes,
Speaker 1: like when you're using an a t M, interestingly enough,
Speaker 1: there can be two charges. There can be a charge
Speaker 1: that your bank imposes on you, and then there can
Speaker 1: be a third party a t M fee depending on
Speaker 1: what it Like, if you're at some bar in a
Speaker 1: hole in the wall in the middle of nowhere, there's
Speaker 1: in all likelihood gonna be like a six dollar search
Speaker 1: arge or something on that a t M for you
Speaker 1: to pull money out, or if you're in Vegas, it
Speaker 1: could be like twenty bucks. Yeah, it could be insane, seriously,
Speaker 1: And and one of the banks that actually kind of
Speaker 1: started it all with reimbursing those third party search charges
Speaker 1: as well when it comes to a t M fees
Speaker 1: is Charles Schwab. So yeah, they're a great bank. If
Speaker 1: you do a lot of a t M withdrawals kind
Speaker 1: of all over the place, particularly in Vegas, and you
Speaker 1: want to say about a lot of money, well, Schwab
Speaker 1: Bank is definitely a good one for you to consider,
Speaker 1: all right, Matt. And another prominent fee that a lot
Speaker 1: of people pay is monthly account fees for banking. So yeah,
Speaker 1: these first ones we mentioned all have to do with
Speaker 1: banks charging you excess fees. And man, they are they
Speaker 1: become wizards essentially at charging people fees. They're really really
Speaker 1: good at it, in particularly the big banks. They love
Speaker 1: to charge fees and that's how they make their money. Well,
Speaker 1: so what would we say to someone paying monthly account
Speaker 1: fees every month? Stop doing business with the bank that
Speaker 1: stinks and is looking to nickel and dime you every
Speaker 1: chance they get. Go to a bank that doesn't charge
Speaker 1: fees for low balances. We think the best place to
Speaker 1: turn for your banking needs are online banks. We like
Speaker 1: credit unions a lot, but in particular for banking services
Speaker 1: and checking and savings accounts. Online banks have the best
Speaker 1: offerings for a lot of reasons. And yeah, a few
Speaker 1: of our favorites, as we mentioned often our discover Ally
Speaker 1: and c I T. So open up a new account
Speaker 1: and if you're paying five, seven, twelve dollars a month
Speaker 1: whatever you're paying to have a checking account with a bank,
Speaker 1: stop and get a new one somewhere else. Because those
Speaker 1: fees out up. You're talking about a hundred hundred, thirty
Speaker 1: hundred and fifty bucks a year just for the privilege
Speaker 1: of doing business with that bank, and at the same time,
Speaker 1: they're paying you nothing on your money. Get rid of
Speaker 1: that bank and find a new one, a bank that's
Speaker 1: gonna respect you and not charge you ridiculous fees like that.
Speaker 1: So Joel, quick little confession. I am actually still doing
Speaker 1: business with one of those big banks to charge a
Speaker 1: monthly account maintenance fee, specifically if my average monthly balanced
Speaker 1: in my business checking account, if it dips below if
Speaker 1: I founder bucks, it's pretty lame. Huh yeah, man, all right,
Speaker 1: can we change that this week? Yeah? Well, here's the
Speaker 1: thing is that it actually gets even worse because they
Speaker 1: also charge if my personal checking account dips below hundred dollars,
Speaker 1: which is a pretty large threshold. That's a total of
Speaker 1: two thousand dollars that is sitting there that is doing
Speaker 1: nothing for me. I have to admit I'm a little ashamed.
Speaker 1: All right, well you're forgiven, But but I would say, yeah,
Speaker 1: like just like anybody else listening who is doing business
Speaker 1: with a bank that is setting up these artificial thresholds,
Speaker 1: of what you need to make to avoid fees. Honestly,
Speaker 1: sometimes it's hard to remember, or you spend a little
Speaker 1: too much out of that account and then you get
Speaker 1: charged the fee. It's really frustrating, it's really annoying. So
Speaker 1: I would just prioritize doing business with a bank that
Speaker 1: doesn't have those just kind of ridiculous arbitrary numbers of
Speaker 1: a required minimum balance that you have to meet every month.
Speaker 1: Just make it easier and just go with a bank
Speaker 1: that doesn't charge those stupid pesky fees. Yeah. Man, for
Speaker 1: me though, Like the reason I've kept that account around
Speaker 1: is because I've always thought I needed to have a local,
Speaker 1: convenient bank to be able to make some of those
Speaker 1: cash deposits that I received from time to time. You know,
Speaker 1: like sometimes you want to sell something on the neighborhood
Speaker 1: yard sale site and they don't pay you in via
Speaker 1: Venmo or cash app. They pay you in actual hard cash.
Speaker 1: But the fact is, like you don't really need to
Speaker 1: deposit that money, Like you can have that money go
Speaker 1: towards your groceries that month, or you can you know,
Speaker 1: take that money to the restaurant. I guess that's what
Speaker 1: I'm saying at this point is I want to commit
Speaker 1: to closing that account and by the time this episode
Speaker 1: airs and I'll be doing smarter things with my money. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Right now it's kind of being held hostage, but you
Speaker 1: know what, it leaves a good way to think about it. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but at least you're avoiding the fees, right. I think
Speaker 1: if people know the threshold they have to hit and
Speaker 1: they want to do business with a certain bank that
Speaker 1: does charge fees like that, but has these thresholds, it's
Speaker 1: okay to do business with that bank. If you have
Speaker 1: a long standing relationship, or if you feel like the
Speaker 1: benefits that you get for meeting a minimum required balance
Speaker 1: are worth it, then it's okay to do that, I think.
Speaker 1: But just make sure you know what you're doing so
Speaker 1: that you can avoid those fees, because it's ultimately those
Speaker 1: fees that you don't want to pay. You don't want
Speaker 1: to be paying ten, twelve whatever bucks a month for
Speaker 1: the account for the privilege of doing business When banks
Speaker 1: all across the country, really really good banks want your
Speaker 1: business and don't want to make you pay in order
Speaker 1: to have an account with them. That's what you want
Speaker 1: to avoid more than anything else. And Jel not only
Speaker 1: are they not charging you to do business with them,
Speaker 1: but they're paying you. Right, all the greats online banks
Speaker 1: that we are fans of, they are paying substantially more
Speaker 1: on their high interest savings accounts. It comes out to
Speaker 1: about two hundred times more every single year. Yeah, that's
Speaker 1: big money. All right. Let's talk about another prominent fee,
Speaker 1: pesky fee that you'll encounter that you can avoid, and
Speaker 1: that's a foreign transaction fee. And these foreign transaction fees,
Speaker 1: they've actually become a little bit easier to avoid overtime,
Speaker 1: not nearly as many credit card issuers charge a three
Speaker 1: percent fee that kind of used to be the standard.
Speaker 1: If you go overseas, your credit card issue or was
Speaker 1: going to charge you roughly three for the privilege of
Speaker 1: using that card overseas well. Make sure you check the
Speaker 1: fine print on your cards. But cards like Capital One's Venture, Chase,
Speaker 1: Sapphire Preferred and all of Discovers cards, they don't charge
Speaker 1: that foreign transaction fee. And you can check out what
Speaker 1: cards are our favorites at how to money dot com.
Speaker 1: Slash credit cards. But really, if you do a decent
Speaker 1: bit of international travel, prioritizing a card that doesn't have
Speaker 1: any sort of foreign transaction fee. Well, that's going to
Speaker 1: save you a good bit of money over time as
Speaker 1: you are traveling overseas and making purchases are jell. Another
Speaker 1: instance where you might be paying a fee every single
Speaker 1: month is when it comes to your utilities. Oftentimes you'll
Speaker 1: be charged three percent or more to pay your water
Speaker 1: or electric bill online with a credit card. This can
Speaker 1: be really frustrating to not be able to use a
Speaker 1: card when otherwise you know that you could be earning
Speaker 1: cash back for those payments. You know, I try to
Speaker 1: put everything on my credit card and then pay them
Speaker 1: off at the end of the month, of course, but
Speaker 1: you know in this case you want to opt to
Speaker 1: pay with your checking account instead to avoid this unnecessary
Speaker 1: fee altogether. This is an instance where these utility companies
Speaker 1: are essentially kind of passing that expense that they would
Speaker 1: incur from the credit card companies by accepting your card
Speaker 1: to you as the customer. Nestings, Yeah, I mean yeah.
Speaker 1: Typically it's built in, like anytime you buy something with
Speaker 1: a credit card from a merchant, they're essentially instead of
Speaker 1: charging that fee directly, it's kind of built into the
Speaker 1: cost of doing business. But when it comes to uh
Speaker 1: in particular with utility companies, they kind of put it
Speaker 1: out there as you know what, we're going to charge
Speaker 1: you for this, and in that case, I would do
Speaker 1: whatever I could to avoid it. All Right, late fees.
Speaker 1: Here's another thing. This one is on us, right when
Speaker 1: we have a late fee from a credit card company
Speaker 1: for not even paying at minimum that minimum balance on time.
Speaker 1: So we would say, set up calendar reminders or automatic
Speaker 1: payments to avoid paying this fee. Yeah, Juel, And you know,
Speaker 1: in the history of like me using credit cards, this
Speaker 1: is a fee that I've and hit with just a
Speaker 1: couple of times. And in both instances it was with
Speaker 1: a new credit card that had been using that had
Speaker 1: a do date that was different than the other cards
Speaker 1: I was using, right, and those other cards I'm used
Speaker 1: to just paying at the beginning of the month, but
Speaker 1: with the new card it was just on a different cycle,
Speaker 1: on a different building cycle. So if you're in a
Speaker 1: similar boat, one of the things you can do you
Speaker 1: can actually change the statement end date so that it
Speaker 1: coincides with your other cards to make it easier for you.
Speaker 1: This is what I do now now that I've learned
Speaker 1: my lesson right, and I will say in both instances
Speaker 1: I was able to reverse those charges. We'll kind of
Speaker 1: get to that later in the episode. But setting up
Speaker 1: that automatic payment man, that is the best way to
Speaker 1: completely avoid this fee altogether. All right. Another pesky fee
Speaker 1: that most of us have probably encountered at one point
Speaker 1: or another is baggage fees. And with the different websites
Speaker 1: that aggregate and price compare airfare for you, all of us,
Speaker 1: we've become a lot more price sensitive when it comes
Speaker 1: to booking airfare, and a lot of airlines will it's
Speaker 1: kind of this race to the bottom of trying to
Speaker 1: get their tickets sold for as cheap as possible so
Speaker 1: that you're kind of in the system and you're flying
Speaker 1: on their airline. Well, in order to recoup some of
Speaker 1: those price cuts, airlines have instituted some of those ridiculous fees.
Speaker 1: I mentioned that stat at the beginning of the episode,
Speaker 1: seven point eight billion dollars on fees alone last year
Speaker 1: from airlines. Boo. I agree, Matt, everyone hates paying check
Speaker 1: bag fees, but some airlines are charging for things cecilious
Speaker 1: printing your boarding pass for ten bucks or charging three
Speaker 1: bucks for water. In both cases, that culprit is spirit
Speaker 1: airlines everyone's favorite airlines. Yeah, but they're at least trying
Speaker 1: to be a little more upfront about their fees and
Speaker 1: and lets you know, well, hey, this is what you're
Speaker 1: gonna pay, so that you know ahead of time and
Speaker 1: you're not just completely blindsided by the fact that you're
Speaker 1: paying a fee. Instead, consider booking with airlines like Southwest,
Speaker 1: who don't charge fees for pretty much anything. And in particular,
Speaker 1: if you've ever tried to change a ticket you wanted
Speaker 1: to cancel a reservation, well, guess how most airlines handle
Speaker 1: that mat Not very well. You pretty much lose the
Speaker 1: entire amount that you've paid if you're not able to
Speaker 1: use that ticket. South Ust, well, they don't charge ticket
Speaker 1: change fees, and they make it a whole lot easier
Speaker 1: to book another flight if that initial reservation isn't going
Speaker 1: to work for you anymore. Another way to avoid those
Speaker 1: pesky baggage fees is to only take carry on luggage
Speaker 1: with you and to print your boarding past yourself or
Speaker 1: just kind of have it on your smartphone. But yeah,
Speaker 1: I think there are so many ways to avoid these
Speaker 1: fees by just kind of taking less with you and
Speaker 1: only taking a carry on bag. It's a quick question
Speaker 1: for you. What's the difference then between like Spirit Airlines.
Speaker 1: Do you think in a company that is beloved like Aldi? Right?
Speaker 1: Because Aldi, what do they make you do when you
Speaker 1: go to the store. They make you take a quarter
Speaker 1: stick it in the stupid cart and then you can
Speaker 1: push that cart around it but you get your quarter back.
Speaker 1: But still that is something that Aldi has done to
Speaker 1: keep costs low, right, Like, this is something that Spirit
Speaker 1: Airlines has done in order to keep costs low. Like,
Speaker 1: what's the difference there between a company that is essentially
Speaker 1: being frugal or cheap corporate edition? Yeah, I mean, I
Speaker 1: guess the best thing I can come up with is
Speaker 1: the way they communicate it to their customers. And I
Speaker 1: feel like Aldi has done a great job with their
Speaker 1: signage of notifying people of why they do certain things.
Speaker 1: For the longest time, they didn't take credit cards in
Speaker 1: order to avoid paying those transaction charges. And I guess
Speaker 1: they just realized over time that a lot of people
Speaker 1: wanted to pay that way and they were losing out
Speaker 1: on business on the other side because people had to
Speaker 1: pay with the debit card and not everyone wanted to
Speaker 1: pay that way. And when it comes to the quarters,
Speaker 1: the quarters for a shopping card. They have a sign
Speaker 1: above those shopping cards that says, a quarter saves you
Speaker 1: a dollar. Here's why we're doing this because then we
Speaker 1: don't have to employ more people to get cards that
Speaker 1: are strown all across the parking lot. And Spirit for
Speaker 1: the longest time did a really bad job at communicating
Speaker 1: why they were charging these fees, and you just kind
Speaker 1: of get hit with it and you didn't understand why
Speaker 1: you were being charged, or it didn't just it just
Speaker 1: didn't make sense. And now Spirit is doing a much
Speaker 1: better job, at least on their website with the messaging
Speaker 1: helping you understand kind of why these fees are being charged,
Speaker 1: and hopefully you realize that you're paying such a smaller
Speaker 1: amount to actually fly for the actual ticket that maybe
Speaker 1: those fees might make sense when you're thinking about the
Speaker 1: total overall cost. And I think there's also something that
Speaker 1: has to do with offering something but charging you for
Speaker 1: it like extra on top of that. Right, it's not
Speaker 1: like Aldi when you go into the store, they don't say, hey,
Speaker 1: we don't have music just because we're trying to save money.
Speaker 1: But if you want to pump a dollar into the
Speaker 1: jukebox machine, then you get the shop with music playing.
Speaker 1: You know, it's not like there's a like a special
Speaker 1: section of the store only for premium members where it's like,
Speaker 1: if you pay an extra two dollars you have access
Speaker 1: to these groceries. I wonder if the fact that you
Speaker 1: know these things aren't even offered by Aldi make it
Speaker 1: so that it's not something that you desire, and then
Speaker 1: when you don't get it, you're upset that you have
Speaker 1: to pay more for it. Whereas like, that's just what
Speaker 1: you expect when it comes to airlines, right, Like you
Speaker 1: expect to be able to check a bag or you know,
Speaker 1: even carry on a bag without being charged, which is
Speaker 1: the case sometimes well also too, that's how it used
Speaker 1: to be. It used to be that you could check
Speaker 1: a bag with no fee, and then ten years ago
Speaker 1: when these fees kind of started to come into play,
Speaker 1: and then everyone started to one up each other and
Speaker 1: make it that much worse for all of us when
Speaker 1: it came to paying fees for every little thing when
Speaker 1: we were booking a flight, that just kind of changed
Speaker 1: our experience and it wasn't something we were used to,
Speaker 1: and all these kind of changing it in another way,
Speaker 1: where you might pay a quarter in order to get
Speaker 1: the shopping cart, but as you walk through the story,
Speaker 1: you totally see why that's the case. You totally see
Speaker 1: how much money you're saving on everything else you're buying.
Speaker 1: And it's like, Okay, I paid a quarter, but I
Speaker 1: get it back and let you get it back. That's all.
Speaker 1: That's really what matters on the shopping car, right, I
Speaker 1: get the quarterback. But then also it kind of makes
Speaker 1: sense that the way they're doing it, they're doing it
Speaker 1: in this really frugal way. And then again they just
Speaker 1: communicate it so well, and half of the battle is
Speaker 1: communication at least half the battle, right when you're trying
Speaker 1: to let people know why you're doing things the way
Speaker 1: you are, and ultimately, if you have the customer's best
Speaker 1: interest at heart, and these fees are going to result
Speaker 1: in an overall lower cost and better experience for everyone involved,
Speaker 1: people are willing to partake in something like that. But
Speaker 1: typically when we encounter a fee, it feels like it's
Speaker 1: almost like an assault against us as opposed to someone
Speaker 1: trying to help us out. Yeah. Yeah, they're trying to
Speaker 1: be sneaky about it. They're trying to stick it to
Speaker 1: us instead of showing how we're on the same team together.
Speaker 1: All right, enough about airlines and Aldi, let's talk about
Speaker 1: fees for purchasing sporting and concert tickets. Man, we've already
Speaker 1: talked about, you know, these fees with Ticketmaster and stud pub.
Speaker 1: I hate these fees, and sometimes there aren't ways that
Speaker 1: you can avoid them, right, Like, one of the solutions
Speaker 1: is that you can just purchase fewer tickets. But another
Speaker 1: option is that you can check with the venue specifically
Speaker 1: and see if you can purchase them directly fee free
Speaker 1: at the box office. That's something I've done before at
Speaker 1: one of our local historic theaters downtown, and you can
Speaker 1: just show up at the box office avoid the fees altogether.
Speaker 1: Plus it's kind of fun to buy things at the
Speaker 1: old school window, you know what I'm saying. Oh yeah,
Speaker 1: it's I think it's a great way. And not all
Speaker 1: venues offer that. But if a venue does, like call
Speaker 1: ahead and ask if they do. If it's a quite
Speaker 1: a drive away from where you are, But if they do,
Speaker 1: and you can save that money, you can avoid paying
Speaker 1: that fee. That's definitely a great way to go. Other
Speaker 1: fees that are pesky TV fees, oh man, they run
Speaker 1: the Gamutt regional sports fees, high definition fees, broadcast television fees.
Speaker 1: All right, well, what's the way that we avoid these
Speaker 1: fees for watching television? Well, I don't know about you, Matt,
Speaker 1: I would say ditch cable. These fees are kind of
Speaker 1: an example of the way things used to be, the
Speaker 1: way the business used to run. And if we continue
Speaker 1: to subscribe to the old model, the old way of
Speaker 1: getting television in our home, we're gonna be forced to
Speaker 1: pay these fees. And and stats have shown the fees
Speaker 1: that pay TV companies are charging are going up at
Speaker 1: exorbitant rates. People that have cable or satellite television are
Speaker 1: paying a lot more in fees than they did percentage wise,
Speaker 1: just even a few years ago. So the new model
Speaker 1: is streaming and there are great companies. We talked about
Speaker 1: this before on the show, but basically, ditching cable is
Speaker 1: the only way to avoid fees like that. And Buddy, Man,
Speaker 1: I wanted to talk about car buying fees. This isn't
Speaker 1: something that we experience often because we like to keep
Speaker 1: our cars around for a long time, but man, there
Speaker 1: can be a lot of fees involved in the car
Speaker 1: buying process. Be sure that you are looking closely at
Speaker 1: your purchase documents, make sure that you're pointing them out
Speaker 1: and try to negotiate each and every one of those fees.
Speaker 1: If you are not able to negotiate those fees, be
Speaker 1: willing to walk away. This is one of the reasons
Speaker 1: I think that car Vonna is just doing such a
Speaker 1: great job taking the used car industry by storm because
Speaker 1: they have such a straightforward approach and how they communicate
Speaker 1: the cost to you as the buyer. Uh, they just
Speaker 1: convey that so well. They communicate that, well, the price
Speaker 1: is the price, like you see the price when you
Speaker 1: first look at the vehicle, and that it doesn't change
Speaker 1: because all those costs are built in. People don't necessarily
Speaker 1: want to have to haggle. You want to see the price,
Speaker 1: you want to know what it is, and you want
Speaker 1: to be able to pay that price. And when there's
Speaker 1: that sort of upfrontness and that transparency within an industry
Speaker 1: or even just with a specific company like this, folks
Speaker 1: are going to be much more prone to not only
Speaker 1: recommend them to you know, to their friends, but just
Speaker 1: to use that company in and again, you man location
Speaker 1: fees or delivery fees, there are all sorts of fees
Speaker 1: that are built into the car buying process at times,
Speaker 1: and it's refreshing to do business with a company that
Speaker 1: doesn't charge those kind of random fees. And you know what,
Speaker 1: if you are buying a car, if you're really interested
Speaker 1: in buying a car, and you see those fees in
Speaker 1: plain sight, right in front of your face, ask questions
Speaker 1: about those fees. Ask if they can be waved or
Speaker 1: a minimum reduced anyway that you can at least ask
Speaker 1: the question and be upfront about how you feel about
Speaker 1: the fees. That is the only way that you're going
Speaker 1: to have a chance at getting them wave or like
Speaker 1: you said, walk away from the deal, or find a
Speaker 1: place that that isn't going to charge fees like that
Speaker 1: on a used car purchase. And of course there are
Speaker 1: hard costs for people moving cars around right and and
Speaker 1: and transporting them across the country or whatever they're doing.
Speaker 1: And so to a certain extent that means that you
Speaker 1: have to look at kind of the total cost inclusive
Speaker 1: of fees. So we'll get to how you think about
Speaker 1: that in other ways that you can consistently of wed
Speaker 1: fees in your life. Right after the break, all right, Joel,
Speaker 1: we are back from the break and we were talking
Speaker 1: about fees. Safe to say, nobody likes the staking fees
Speaker 1: they know. Boy, no, Yeah, we've we've talked about some
Speaker 1: of the different ways that we get hit with fees
Speaker 1: all the time in our lives. Now let's talk about
Speaker 1: ways that we can combat those fees. The first thing
Speaker 1: that you want to make sure that you're doing is
Speaker 1: that you are reviewing your credit card statement every month.
Speaker 1: You want to make sure to notice if there is
Speaker 1: anything odd standing out. The reason for this is because
Speaker 1: you might be paying for services or fees that you
Speaker 1: even forgot about or potentially didn't even sign up for.
Speaker 1: The worst fee is the fee that you don't even
Speaker 1: know exists. I call that the phantom fee. So step
Speaker 1: one is to, you know, make sure that you're getting
Speaker 1: your financial house in order and that you are even
Speaker 1: aware of all the different fees that you might already
Speaker 1: be paying. The next step that you need to take
Speaker 1: in order to reduce fees in your life is to
Speaker 1: cut back be okay with produced services. For example, of
Speaker 1: a cable company is sticking it to you in there
Speaker 1: and they already are with the regular sticker price of course,
Speaker 1: will jump ship in order to avoid high charges and
Speaker 1: ridiculous fees. In episode one oh seven, Matt, Matt, we
Speaker 1: talked about cutting the cord, and really that's we just
Speaker 1: talked about ditching cable in order to avoid fees while
Speaker 1: going with a streaming service, kind of running with the
Speaker 1: new age, with more upfront pricing, with more standard pricing,
Speaker 1: with easier to understand pricing models. That is a way
Speaker 1: to to ditch fees on the way you watch television,
Speaker 1: for sure. Yeah, and je, if you are not willing
Speaker 1: to cut back on the different services that you are
Speaker 1: paying for, try to be at least willing to switch
Speaker 1: be okay changing different providers. You can switch banks, you
Speaker 1: can switch cell phone service providers. Any time that you
Speaker 1: can prioritize doing business with a company who avoids fees
Speaker 1: and prioritizes price transparency and customer service. You should like,
Speaker 1: that's who you should be giving your money to, not
Speaker 1: someone who's secretly nickel and diming you. Oh and by
Speaker 1: the way, they're not going to tell you until the
Speaker 1: very last screen before you click purchase. You know, like
Speaker 1: that's the worst. Yeah, doing business with companies that avoid
Speaker 1: fees is actually this virtuous cycle whereas we are being
Speaker 1: a little more intelligent and a little bit more thoughtful
Speaker 1: about who we do business with. Those businesses are profiting
Speaker 1: for doing business the right way, the way that avoids
Speaker 1: crummy fees, and so as you switch service providers, make
Speaker 1: sure you're doing your best to avoid providers that charge
Speaker 1: just ridiculous or stupid or or annoying fees. And I
Speaker 1: think overall, as we do that, other companies that maybe
Speaker 1: we're charging stupid fees kind of begin to see that
Speaker 1: and they're like, oh, wait, wait a second, then that
Speaker 1: that fee model is actually annoying people. It's not working out,
Speaker 1: and it's not attracting new business, and it's not helping
Speaker 1: me keep my current customers. And so yeah, if we
Speaker 1: do that, I think it actually makes not just a
Speaker 1: big difference in the here and now for the fees
Speaker 1: that we're paying, but it makes a statement as companies
Speaker 1: kind of adapt to the way that we want to
Speaker 1: do business, and the way that I want to do
Speaker 1: business at least is I want to do business on
Speaker 1: and kind of an upfront model of knowing how much
Speaker 1: I'm gonna pay getting into it. I don't want to
Speaker 1: be charged fees on the back end that I didn't
Speaker 1: realize going into the purchase up front. Yeah, reward those
Speaker 1: companies that are doing good stuff. Yeah, exactly. But Joel,
Speaker 1: if you do find yourself with an unnecessary fee, remember
Speaker 1: that the squeaky wheel gets the grease. Just like we
Speaker 1: encourage each other to ask for discount, we are encouraging
Speaker 1: you to ask for your fee to be waived and specifically, Man, lately,
Speaker 1: I've been doing this via the chat option, right. I'm
Speaker 1: a huge fan of the chat now or the live
Speaker 1: chat options that banks. A lot of retailers have them
Speaker 1: now as well. They're including those on the websites. I
Speaker 1: like it though, because it's easy, and I specifically can
Speaker 1: multitask while I'm kind of chatting with them waiting for
Speaker 1: them to respond. I can keep working while they weigh
Speaker 1: that fee. And of course I could call, right, like,
Speaker 1: actually pick up the phone, make a phone call, talk
Speaker 1: to a human being. But here's the thing, I'm a
Speaker 1: millennial and I don't want to have to actually talk
Speaker 1: to somebody, like just typing some words onto my screen.
Speaker 1: Oh man, you know how weird it feels when someone
Speaker 1: actually calls, you know, unexpected. It's like, wait, why are
Speaker 1: you presuming that I was wanting to talk on the phone, Yeah, chat,
Speaker 1: the chat option, any sort of way that I can
Speaker 1: interact via text essentially, it just makes it so much simpler.
Speaker 1: And yeah, I do love talking to people on the phone.
Speaker 1: I much prefer it in person. But when someone calls
Speaker 1: you out of the blue, that's when it feels weird, right, yeah,
Speaker 1: pretty much. Now I just assumed that something like terrible
Speaker 1: has happened, agreed. Every time someone calls me, I'm like,
Speaker 1: all right, who's hurt? Is everything? Okay? What's going on?
Speaker 1: Do I have to go to the hospital right now?
Speaker 1: I saw my dad was like, can you call me
Speaker 1: in the next twenty minutes? And I was just like,
Speaker 1: I assume something terrible happened if we needed to talk
Speaker 1: in the next twenty minutes. No, he just wanted to
Speaker 1: like talk about dinner next weekend or something like that.
Speaker 1: But yeah, it's just it's just super funny the way
Speaker 1: that we interpret a phone call versus people of a
Speaker 1: different era where phone calls were a little more normal. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I hear you, man. In another way that you can
Speaker 1: get kind of fees waved in your life is by
Speaker 1: using social media effectively. Businesses often have their best customer
Speaker 1: service folks assigned to social media. We've talked about this before.
Speaker 1: They don't want negative attention online. And so if you complain,
Speaker 1: if you message them, even if you just d M
Speaker 1: on Twitter or Facebook however, or wherever they have their
Speaker 1: biggest presence, well you're more than likely to get your
Speaker 1: issue resolved, your fee waved, much more easily if you
Speaker 1: kind of take to social media in order to make
Speaker 1: your request known. Yeah, but Joel, in the end, sometimes
Speaker 1: we do get stuck with fees. Uh. Sometimes they are appropriate,
Speaker 1: and you know, even though we may not like them,
Speaker 1: they're not incorrect necessarily. But sometimes we are stuck with
Speaker 1: fees that are just flat out wrong. Sometimes they are
Speaker 1: straight up illegal. If that is ever the case, make
Speaker 1: sure to file a complaint with the Better Business Bureau
Speaker 1: or a government agency like your state attorney general or
Speaker 1: the cfp B, which is the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau.
Speaker 1: That's going to be a great way to have not
Speaker 1: only of your fees resolved, but to ensure that your
Speaker 1: fellow consumer, your fellow customer, isn't also getting stuck with
Speaker 1: those fees. Yeah. In fact, on the Consumer Financial Protection
Speaker 1: Bureaus website, it says that of consumers receive a timely
Speaker 1: response from the company that they're complaining about. So if
Speaker 1: you have an error, if you have a fee that
Speaker 1: you've been charged the feel is out of order, that
Speaker 1: you shouldn't have to pay, well, submitting a complaint there
Speaker 1: will actually get action taken. And then they also say
Speaker 1: that every time you submit a complaint it helps others.
Speaker 1: You're you're kind of playing a role in this greater
Speaker 1: narrative of helping of helping the CFPB assess you know,
Speaker 1: the good and bad players out there that the folks
Speaker 1: the companies who are are charging erran fees frequently, right,
Speaker 1: and then they're able to take potentially an even bigger
Speaker 1: action against a company like that. So the BBB, the CFPB,
Speaker 1: those are great places to kind of submit a complaint
Speaker 1: if you feel like you've been charged in egregious fee
Speaker 1: or if you've been charged in error, that that's a
Speaker 1: great place to go. And it's just gotten so much
Speaker 1: easier for us to make our voices heard about fees
Speaker 1: we just meant in social media, but even just kind
Speaker 1: of publicizing it, letting people know that we've had an
Speaker 1: issue a run in. Sometimes those complaints, if they're done
Speaker 1: well if they're done intelligently, can take on a life
Speaker 1: of their own, can let not only just our friends
Speaker 1: and family know, but can reach a wider audience and
Speaker 1: can help other people from avoiding the same pitfall with
Speaker 1: that company, but also can create kind of a tidal
Speaker 1: wave that leads to a potential change as well. So
Speaker 1: I think we do have more power thanks to kind
Speaker 1: of social media and the networks that we've developed. That
Speaker 1: is like one of the good sides of social media,
Speaker 1: right that we can take to it and actually see
Speaker 1: real change happen, especially in regards to the pesky fees
Speaker 1: and companies that aren't using them well Joel. But at
Speaker 1: the end of the day, we want to make sure
Speaker 1: that you and I and everyone out there that we
Speaker 1: are looking at the bottom line. If you look at
Speaker 1: the overall bottom line costs right at the price, paying
Speaker 1: certain fees might still score you the best overall deal. Yeah,
Speaker 1: we talked about spirit just a little bit earlier there.
Speaker 1: Kind of whole model is on the fact that they
Speaker 1: charge fees. They charge like just insanely low prices in
Speaker 1: the beginning for just the fair and there are ways
Speaker 1: that you can avoid paying those fees. There are hoops
Speaker 1: you can jump through, no matter how uncomfortable you might
Speaker 1: be in doing so. By taking just the smallest piece
Speaker 1: of luggage, or making sure you print your own ticket
Speaker 1: at home, whatever it is, there are ways that you
Speaker 1: can avoid a good many of those fees, and so yeah,
Speaker 1: I think really considering the overall ultimate cost is kind
Speaker 1: of like where we should come down. I hate fees
Speaker 1: at their pesky, For instance, Matt, I'll tell you this.
Speaker 1: I was buying a purse from my wife for our anniversary,
Speaker 1: and I was looking online. I saw the price. It
Speaker 1: seemed like a decent deal, but there was a shipping fee,
Speaker 1: and I just didn't want to pay the shipping fee.
Speaker 1: So I waited, and ultimately I found another coupon code
Speaker 1: that brought the price down. But even then I was like, man,
Speaker 1: I still have to pay the shipping. I realized that
Speaker 1: this company has shipping costs they have to incur, but
Speaker 1: I've just gotten so used to paying nothing for shipping
Speaker 1: from so many places around the web that it feels
Speaker 1: like a fee. But really, the price was really, really,
Speaker 1: really good, and so I was happy to buy that
Speaker 1: purse because I knew she would love it and it
Speaker 1: was a great deal. So ultimately, just don't be blindsided
Speaker 1: by the fee to that extent where you're not taking
Speaker 1: into consideration the total overall cost of doing business with
Speaker 1: that company or purchasing that item. Yeah, man, and we
Speaker 1: just touched on this too, But we are not opposed
Speaker 1: to paying for things that we are receiving the benefit of. Right.
Speaker 1: We know that products and services they do cost money.
Speaker 1: But it's just when those products and services get stuck
Speaker 1: to us at the very end without us knowing it,
Speaker 1: or if it's something that they're trying to hide, where
Speaker 1: they're trying to slide into the total cost of something,
Speaker 1: when those fees, when those costs are hidden, when it
Speaker 1: feels like they're being sneaky about it, where they're trying
Speaker 1: to not be spotted, That to me is the worst.
Speaker 1: Like that's when the fees feel completely terrible. It's like
Speaker 1: a personal affront to my character when that happens. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm thinking to myself, you think you're gonna get that
Speaker 1: past me? Like you think I wasn't going to see
Speaker 1: that fee. Of course I want to see that fee.
Speaker 1: Who do you think I am? Right? Yeah? Man, I'm
Speaker 1: vigilant too, and so if I am getting a fee.
Speaker 1: If I'm seeing a fee that I don't reckon guies
Speaker 1: or that I wasn't expecting, then you know what, I'm
Speaker 1: gonna speak up about it. And I think that's what
Speaker 1: we should all do. We should all become a little
Speaker 1: more accustomed to speaking up for ourselves, to push back
Speaker 1: on fees that are ridiculous that we find in our lives.
Speaker 1: And I think the more we do that, the more
Speaker 1: we'll start to see them get waived, the more we'll
Speaker 1: start to see companies change their patterns. But more than anything,
Speaker 1: there are also these fees that we talked about that
Speaker 1: we can avoid in our lives just by kind of
Speaker 1: handling our finances a little bit more intelligently and being
Speaker 1: a little bit smarter about the companies that we do
Speaker 1: business with on a on a day to day or
Speaker 1: month to month basis. Yeah, that's right, buddy. Tell me this,
Speaker 1: what if there is a fee associated with buying craft beer?
Speaker 1: Would you still do it? Oh? Man? How dare you
Speaker 1: throw me the most impossible question in the world. Well, yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean, if they're upfront about it and we knew
Speaker 1: about that cost on the front end, I would gladly
Speaker 1: take that into account when I'm considering my beer offerings. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but I look for a beer shop that was fee free,
Speaker 1: you know, like they found a way to kind of
Speaker 1: not charge a ridiculous fee. So, speaking of beer, our
Speaker 1: beer for this episode was, like we mentioned earlier, Bourbon
Speaker 1: Barrel Dark Apparition, this is by Jackie Ohs. And so
Speaker 1: I did a little bit of looking up because I
Speaker 1: thought Jackie Oh's was a very unique name for a brewery.
Speaker 1: My assumption is that the name is based on John F.
Speaker 1: Kennedy's wife, Jacqueline O Nassis Kennedy, and I am I right,
Speaker 1: ran very close it was. It was named after a female.
Speaker 1: So art right, he's the founder of of the brewery.
Speaker 1: He named it after his mom. Oh cool. Yeah, So
Speaker 1: he took over the brew pub that became Jackie O's
Speaker 1: Brewery and he just named the place after his mom,
Speaker 1: which to me is such a like strong Midwestern thing
Speaker 1: to do. It's like, yeah, but what you're gonna name
Speaker 1: the brewery? I'm gonna name it after my mom. What
Speaker 1: a cool guy man. I saw got such a good
Speaker 1: vibe from him emailing back and forth, So no wonder,
Speaker 1: he's a cool dude. He named his brewery after his mom. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it sounds like he was raised. Well, yeah, what were
Speaker 1: your thoughts on the beer? Yeah, so this was a
Speaker 1: stout that was aged in bourbon barrels, and man, the
Speaker 1: first thing I noticed was that on the nose it
Speaker 1: had a pretty noticeable bourbon aroma, and along with that,
Speaker 1: it almost had like sort of this warm apple cidery
Speaker 1: sweetness to it. With it being cooler out these days,
Speaker 1: I was really drawn to that. It was really a
Speaker 1: kind of warm and comforting before he even took my
Speaker 1: first sip. But man, as far as the flavor goes,
Speaker 1: it was a big multi beer. It had a lot
Speaker 1: of those flavors on the tongue, but those flavors they
Speaker 1: didn't really sit heavy on the tongue, right, Like, I
Speaker 1: tasted all those flavors, but then they kind of quickly
Speaker 1: moved on and then on the finish, I feel like
Speaker 1: it kind of ended with more that sort of bourbon kick,
Speaker 1: which I appreciate because I'm a fan of bourbon myself. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I thought this was a really interesting stout, very unique.
Speaker 1: It actually had a little bit of of hot presence,
Speaker 1: which is rare in a stout. It's not kind of
Speaker 1: something that you normally get and so it had these
Speaker 1: like kind of floral hops I thought, booming out, like
Speaker 1: bursting forth a little bit inside of this midnight black
Speaker 1: bourbon barrel aged out. So it kind of lent itself
Speaker 1: to being this really unique, special and delicious stout that
Speaker 1: also had kind of like some fig equalities, like qualities
Speaker 1: of like a Belgian style quad. So yeah, I was
Speaker 1: just really fascinating kind of concoction beer that man, I
Speaker 1: really enjoyed, and I agree it's it's nice for especially
Speaker 1: a cold winter night, like a dark stout like this
Speaker 1: with kind of all these interesting flavor profile things going
Speaker 1: on inside of it. Yeah, it was very unique and
Speaker 1: very tasty. Yeah, with you on the Belgian quad, because
Speaker 1: it's got the sweetness that you find in quads a
Speaker 1: lot of times, because often with a big stout like this,
Speaker 1: they have some more of those bitter like dark chocolate
Speaker 1: notes or like a roasted coffee kind of profile to it.
Speaker 1: So I hear you, dude, all right, Matt, that's gonna
Speaker 1: do it for this episode. And we'll have show notes
Speaker 1: up for the episode on our website at how to
Speaker 1: money dot com. Also there on the website if you
Speaker 1: think we can make some improvements to the show. You
Speaker 1: can go to how do money dot com slash do
Speaker 1: Better and you can let us know they're how we
Speaker 1: can make the show more informative and more helpful. All buddy,
Speaker 1: that's gonna be it for this episode until next time.
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