WEBVTT - Fees are the Worst, and How to Avoid Them #147 0:00:00.080 --> 0:00:02.760 Welcome to How the Money. I'm Joel and I'm Matt, 0:00:02.960 --> 0:00:05.960 and today we're discussing why fees are the worst and 0:00:06.000 --> 0:00:28.160 how to avoid them. They're the worst, Yeah, Joel, fees man, 0:00:28.280 --> 0:00:30.720 they are truly at the worst. We're gonna talk about 0:00:30.760 --> 0:00:33.519 why they are the worst. We're gonna talk through some 0:00:33.560 --> 0:00:36.880 of the different fees that we often get suckered into paying, 0:00:37.400 --> 0:00:39.920 and then we're gonna round the show outs by discussing 0:00:39.920 --> 0:00:42.160 some of the different ways that we can make sure 0:00:42.200 --> 0:00:45.640 to avoid paying those fees in our lives. I like it, 0:00:45.640 --> 0:00:47.839 all right, but something else. It stinks almost as much 0:00:47.880 --> 0:00:50.400 as fees. Student loans, all right, let's talk about that. 0:00:50.400 --> 0:00:52.760 Those are also pretty terrible. It's so bad. And there's 0:00:52.800 --> 0:00:55.240 this new Ashton Kutcher series, Matt. I don't know if 0:00:55.280 --> 0:00:58.120 you've seen it or heard about it. I mean, you 0:00:58.160 --> 0:01:00.680 say Ashton Kulcher. He's not in the show right right now, 0:01:00.760 --> 0:01:03.400 but he like produced it or helped fund it or whatever. 0:01:03.400 --> 0:01:05.000 It's part of it. Yeah, he's part He's part of 0:01:05.000 --> 0:01:08.080 the creation of this show called Going from Broke. And 0:01:08.120 --> 0:01:09.560 I was gonna like tease that we were going to 0:01:09.600 --> 0:01:12.080 have Ashton on the show or something, but I can't 0:01:12.080 --> 0:01:13.720 even do that with a straight face. I wish that 0:01:13.720 --> 0:01:15.480 would be kind of cool, but it's not gonna happen. 0:01:15.520 --> 0:01:18.200 Well with all the movie business in Atlanta, yali Wood 0:01:18.440 --> 0:01:20.640 as they call it, Ashton Kutcher has actually been in 0:01:20.680 --> 0:01:22.720 our neighborhood, that's true. Did you get a story about 0:01:22.760 --> 0:01:26.319 him at our local ballet studio? I did. All the 0:01:26.360 --> 0:01:29.319 moms in there, We're taking their daughters and sons to 0:01:29.440 --> 0:01:32.360 ballet class, were like, what I freaking up in the 0:01:32.440 --> 0:01:35.480 neighborhod Ballet studio there as a dad, you know, with 0:01:35.520 --> 0:01:38.119 his kid. Yeah. Yeah. So. But he also has created 0:01:38.120 --> 0:01:41.840 this show, Going From Broke, and it's about these two 0:01:41.840 --> 0:01:44.240 financial experts are going in to help people who are 0:01:44.640 --> 0:01:47.440 just way down with student loans. And so I wanted 0:01:47.440 --> 0:01:49.680 to mention too an interesting thing. You can watch the 0:01:49.720 --> 0:01:53.360 series for free on Sony's Crackle service, which is a 0:01:53.360 --> 0:01:55.280 service where you can watch stuff freak. So Going from 0:01:55.280 --> 0:01:57.280 Broke you can watch it without having any sort of 0:01:57.280 --> 0:02:00.120 paid subscription. And when I heard about this and I 0:02:00.120 --> 0:02:02.880 saw that there's a new series where these financial experts 0:02:02.920 --> 0:02:05.480 are going through to help people overwhelmed the student loans, 0:02:05.840 --> 0:02:08.600 it kind of surprised me. That that was something that 0:02:08.639 --> 0:02:11.919 people wanted to watch on TV, but also at the 0:02:11.960 --> 0:02:15.440 same time it kind of brought to the forefront that Wow, 0:02:15.520 --> 0:02:17.280 I mean, I know that this is a problem. I 0:02:17.280 --> 0:02:19.360 know that this is just a huge issue right in 0:02:19.360 --> 0:02:20.720 our day and age. Like I feel like it's a 0:02:20.760 --> 0:02:25.360 headline piece constantly about how much there is in student 0:02:25.400 --> 0:02:28.839 loan debt, specific cases of people being overwhelmed, it being 0:02:28.840 --> 0:02:32.120 hard to find, uh, student loan forgiveness and so, yeah, 0:02:32.120 --> 0:02:35.080 this show is obviously of interest. It's it's of interest 0:02:35.120 --> 0:02:37.359 to people to see how it's affecting other people, but 0:02:37.360 --> 0:02:39.200 at the same time, hopefully get some tips and tricks 0:02:39.280 --> 0:02:42.160 from this show on how to tackle their student loans. Yeah. 0:02:42.160 --> 0:02:44.040 I mean, and they're not only just talking about student 0:02:44.080 --> 0:02:47.080 loans and how that is affecting our generation, right, but 0:02:47.160 --> 0:02:49.960 I mean they're they're broadly speaking to just personal finance 0:02:50.000 --> 0:02:52.480 in general, how we can often make poor decisions when 0:02:52.480 --> 0:02:54.960 it comes to what we do with our money. And 0:02:55.040 --> 0:02:57.880 it's just really interesting too that just personal finance in 0:02:57.880 --> 0:03:00.400 general is it's kind of taking the spotlight rights. It's 0:03:00.600 --> 0:03:03.600 center stage, and people want to see how other people 0:03:03.639 --> 0:03:06.400 are spending their money and how you know, they're doing 0:03:06.440 --> 0:03:08.400 poor things with their money. But at the same time, 0:03:08.400 --> 0:03:11.200 hopefully they are able to watch the shows and learn something, uh, 0:03:11.360 --> 0:03:14.320 learn something to actually help them in their current situation, 0:03:14.560 --> 0:03:16.080 sort of like we do on this show. You know, 0:03:16.120 --> 0:03:18.640 we're not just two guys talking here. We're hoping to 0:03:18.720 --> 0:03:22.320 actually improve your financial life. If this is you right 0:03:22.360 --> 0:03:25.760 now listening to this podcast, yeah, you're listening because you 0:03:26.120 --> 0:03:29.639 want your finances to look different, whether you're doing well, 0:03:29.680 --> 0:03:32.320 and you want like little ways to help you get 0:03:32.320 --> 0:03:35.720 further and do even better and invest more wisely or 0:03:35.760 --> 0:03:38.400 cut back on expenses or stop paying needless fees right 0:03:38.440 --> 0:03:40.360 whatever it is, or you're just kind of on the 0:03:40.600 --> 0:03:43.000 beginning path and you're kind of figuring out what some 0:03:43.040 --> 0:03:45.400 of these terms mean, and you want to get started 0:03:45.760 --> 0:03:49.080 and just become a little bit better at making decisions 0:03:49.240 --> 0:03:52.160 to kind of get you started in being decent with 0:03:52.200 --> 0:03:55.040 personal finances. I mean, I think whatever position you're in 0:03:55.360 --> 0:03:58.280 while you're listening, we want to to help you wherever 0:03:58.320 --> 0:04:00.880 you are. And Matt on that no of student loans 0:04:00.920 --> 0:04:02.680 and that show kind of really tackles that in a 0:04:02.680 --> 0:04:05.120 big way. Well, I wanted to mention that student loan 0:04:05.320 --> 0:04:08.000 refinance rates are super low right now. As the FED 0:04:08.040 --> 0:04:11.920 has been cutting interest rates, well, guess what's dropped student 0:04:11.960 --> 0:04:15.280 loan refinancing rates, And so a lot of our listeners 0:04:15.320 --> 0:04:17.560 might qualify for a lower rate on a student loan. 0:04:18.040 --> 0:04:20.480 And speaking of our topic today, fees, well, there are 0:04:20.480 --> 0:04:24.560 no fees associated with refinancing your student loans with reputable lenders, 0:04:24.720 --> 0:04:26.520 so it's worth checking out. And we have an article 0:04:26.560 --> 0:04:29.080 on our site where our student loan expert Megan she 0:04:29.160 --> 0:04:31.719 wrote about refinancing your student loan and when it makes sense, 0:04:31.720 --> 0:04:33.719 and so we'll post that in the show notes as well. 0:04:33.880 --> 0:04:35.520 But I just want to put that on people's radar. 0:04:35.800 --> 0:04:38.960 If you are burdened by your student loan payments and 0:04:39.000 --> 0:04:41.560 you're looking to potentially pay them off more quickly at 0:04:41.600 --> 0:04:45.320 a lower interest rate, well, refinancing in this current low 0:04:45.440 --> 0:04:47.960 interest rate environment might make sense for you. Yeah, while 0:04:47.960 --> 0:04:50.080 it sucks to actually have a ton of student loans, 0:04:50.440 --> 0:04:53.440 I think it's awesome that you can refinance for free. 0:04:53.800 --> 0:04:56.800 Unlike refinancing a mortgage on a home, which costs a 0:04:56.800 --> 0:04:58.440 ton of money, a lot of money, that is not 0:04:58.480 --> 0:05:00.720 the case for student loans. That's true. And Joel real 0:05:00.800 --> 0:05:04.280 quick before we launched into talking about fees. Let's introduce 0:05:04.279 --> 0:05:07.039 our beer for this episode, which is Bourbon Barrel Dark 0:05:07.080 --> 0:05:11.200 Apparition and this is by Jackie Ohs out of Ohio. Joel, 0:05:11.680 --> 0:05:14.240 this is one intimidating label right here. It is. I'm 0:05:14.279 --> 0:05:16.440 looking forward to sharing this one with you and talking 0:05:16.480 --> 0:05:18.560 about it at the end of the episode thanks to 0:05:18.760 --> 0:05:21.200 Art and Mackenzie all the lovely folks up there at 0:05:21.200 --> 0:05:23.560 that brewery. Yeah man, they sent us some good beers. 0:05:23.680 --> 0:05:25.560 Really excited to have this one on the show with you. 0:05:25.760 --> 0:05:27.560 All right, but let's get to the topic of hand 0:05:27.600 --> 0:05:30.680 for this episode, Matt, fees are the worst, but then 0:05:30.720 --> 0:05:32.400 we also have to talk about how to avoid them. 0:05:32.680 --> 0:05:34.640 Fees are, of course a major pain in our lives. 0:05:34.640 --> 0:05:38.000 They pop up everywhere, and Matt, we recently talked about 0:05:38.040 --> 0:05:41.440 saving money on lodging while traveling. We discussed the annoyance 0:05:41.480 --> 0:05:43.920 that urban fees and resort fees, all these kind of 0:05:43.960 --> 0:05:47.479 strange and interesting fees that hotels are starting to build 0:05:47.480 --> 0:05:50.000 into their pricing, that they seem to be popping up 0:05:50.000 --> 0:05:52.120 all over the place and randomly, and a lot more 0:05:52.160 --> 0:05:55.600 so recently, what parking fees and WiFi fees abound too. 0:05:55.760 --> 0:05:59.760 When we're booking hotels. But fees are prominent across our 0:06:00.080 --> 0:06:02.840 higher financial lives now, and we have to be aware 0:06:03.120 --> 0:06:04.960 of how and when we encounter them so we can 0:06:04.960 --> 0:06:09.520 be vigilant and intentional to avoid these fees whenever possible. Yeah, 0:06:09.560 --> 0:06:12.680 when we also specifically talked about fees in regards to 0:06:12.720 --> 0:06:15.960 your retirement accounts, paying a commission to a broker for 0:06:16.040 --> 0:06:19.839 an actively managed fund and paying sky high fund expenses 0:06:20.160 --> 0:06:23.120 that'll eat away at your wealth substantially. If you want 0:06:23.160 --> 0:06:24.880 to know more about that, you can go back and 0:06:24.960 --> 0:06:28.120 check out episode ninety one. But today we'll be covering 0:06:28.200 --> 0:06:30.240 other fees that we encounter around us in our day 0:06:30.240 --> 0:06:33.280 to day lives. Yeah, fees are prevalent. They're everywhere, right, 0:06:33.279 --> 0:06:37.200 There's cancelation fees, administrative charges, resort fees. Like we mentioned, 0:06:37.240 --> 0:06:40.240 fees have all sorts of different lingo ascribed to them 0:06:40.360 --> 0:06:43.880 in an attempt to lessen their blow, but they're pervasive nonetheless. Right. 0:06:43.880 --> 0:06:47.159 Ticketmaster charges up to thirty seven percent of the face 0:06:47.240 --> 0:06:49.960 value of a ticket in fees. And it's not just one, 0:06:50.000 --> 0:06:53.560 it's multiple, including fees to print your tickets at home. 0:06:53.600 --> 0:06:55.680 They charge you money to use your own printer. And 0:06:56.480 --> 0:06:59.480 I know, I mean I don't think I am gonna 0:06:59.560 --> 0:07:02.520 have trouble finding other people out there listening that have 0:07:02.640 --> 0:07:05.160 had a terrible run in with Ticketmaster. Right. Also, don't 0:07:05.160 --> 0:07:08.159 think Ticketmaster is going to advertise on our podcast. Probably 0:07:08.200 --> 0:07:11.400 not so. Yeah, the fees for Ticketmaster are just incredible, 0:07:11.440 --> 0:07:13.720 and I think Live Nation too. Right, there's these companies 0:07:13.960 --> 0:07:17.080 out there selling tickets, charging exorbitant fees and just annoying 0:07:17.120 --> 0:07:19.720 us all to death in the process. In airlines, it 0:07:19.760 --> 0:07:23.120 turns out Matt last year made seven point eight billion 0:07:23.160 --> 0:07:27.040 dollars on fees alone. So that's not including the price 0:07:27.080 --> 0:07:29.760 of airfare, that's not including the other ways they make money. 0:07:29.760 --> 0:07:31.960 It's literally just the fees that they charge for getting 0:07:32.000 --> 0:07:34.560 an assigned seat now or for wanting to be able 0:07:34.600 --> 0:07:36.480 to sit next to your wife or your family. There 0:07:36.480 --> 0:07:39.400 are all these fees that were charged now by the airlines, 0:07:39.520 --> 0:07:42.920 and they're racking up by charging us massive fees all 0:07:42.920 --> 0:07:45.040 the time. They're not alone, but man, they are definitely 0:07:45.040 --> 0:07:47.559 one of the major culprits. And these fees they span 0:07:47.960 --> 0:07:51.400 lots of different industries. They are incredibly prevalent and fees, man, 0:07:51.440 --> 0:07:54.000 they are also really sneaky. One of the reasons that 0:07:54.040 --> 0:07:57.600 fees are becoming more ubiquitous is because our shopping behavior 0:07:57.800 --> 0:08:01.480 makes us susceptible to them. Right. A study of StubHub 0:08:01.560 --> 0:08:05.480 fees showed that consumers spent more if they weren't shown 0:08:05.520 --> 0:08:08.520 the fees until the end of the purchase. Right. Doesn't 0:08:08.520 --> 0:08:10.680 that sound sort of like the amount that ticket Master 0:08:10.800 --> 0:08:14.080 or StubHub charges in addition to what the actual ticket costs. 0:08:14.440 --> 0:08:17.320 Sounds kind of familiar, buddy. Maybe they're like buddies talking 0:08:17.320 --> 0:08:18.720 on the phone. Who knows. It's like, hey, you're in 0:08:18.760 --> 0:08:22.960 a charge this year. But basically we get frustrated and 0:08:22.960 --> 0:08:24.960 we're at the end of that entire process, and we 0:08:25.000 --> 0:08:27.120 still click by because we've already kind of committed that 0:08:27.200 --> 0:08:29.480 time to that purchase, and you probably still want to 0:08:29.480 --> 0:08:31.200 go to the concert. You have to use a poker term, 0:08:31.200 --> 0:08:33.120 your pot committed at that point, Right, You've gone through 0:08:33.120 --> 0:08:35.079 the whole process, you've got them in the cart, and 0:08:35.360 --> 0:08:37.360 then you see the fees and you just breathe that 0:08:37.440 --> 0:08:39.840 angry sigh that you know what they've done it to 0:08:39.880 --> 0:08:42.520 me again, I guess I'm paying indeed, Man, Yeah, it's 0:08:42.559 --> 0:08:44.480 that bait and switch. But here's the thing. If it 0:08:44.600 --> 0:08:47.559 had been price youre upfront on the friend end, before 0:08:47.600 --> 0:08:49.640 we had committed to that purchase, I think there's a 0:08:49.720 --> 0:08:52.240 chance that we would leave immediately. Makes me think of 0:08:52.280 --> 0:08:55.200 the frog in boiling water analogy, right, Like, if that 0:08:55.240 --> 0:08:56.839 frog would have gotten in at the very beginning and 0:08:56.880 --> 0:08:58.920 it was boiling, frog would have hopped out. He's like, hey, 0:08:59.040 --> 0:09:01.520 no idiot, I'm even I'm not paying for those tickets. 0:09:01.880 --> 0:09:03.800 But because we're committed by that point, right, Like, we've 0:09:03.800 --> 0:09:06.640 already spent five minutes clicking on squares with stop signs 0:09:06.640 --> 0:09:08.319 in them, and you know, we know we like we 0:09:08.360 --> 0:09:10.439 can picture ourselves at that concert, or we can picture 0:09:10.440 --> 0:09:13.000 ourselves like at that soccer match we proved our humanity 0:09:13.000 --> 0:09:16.320 to the capture robotic machine exactly, Like, I'm not turning 0:09:16.320 --> 0:09:18.720 back at this point. I'm gonna do it. But that's 0:09:18.720 --> 0:09:21.880 just another example of us sort of getting worn down 0:09:21.880 --> 0:09:24.120 by paying these ridiculous fees. I think when they kind 0:09:24.120 --> 0:09:25.280 of do the bait and switch like that at the 0:09:25.360 --> 0:09:27.600 very end, that is just one of the absolute worst 0:09:27.600 --> 0:09:30.480 ways to experience fees, when different companies pulling over on 0:09:30.520 --> 0:09:33.760 you like that, right, and when there's not that price transparency. Yeah, Matt, 0:09:33.840 --> 0:09:37.200 And even as we've become accustomed to seeing more fees 0:09:37.480 --> 0:09:40.160 in our lives. Well, there are still ways that we 0:09:40.200 --> 0:09:43.680 can mount a legitimate opposition to encroaching fees that we 0:09:43.720 --> 0:09:47.240 see that pop up, and it's your money, it's my money, right, 0:09:47.440 --> 0:09:49.520 what are we going to do about it? Though? There 0:09:49.520 --> 0:09:52.319 are actual steps that we can take to lessen the 0:09:52.400 --> 0:09:54.880 impact of fees in our life and to avoid paying fees. 0:09:55.160 --> 0:09:56.800 And so we've got some really important steps for you 0:09:56.840 --> 0:09:59.080 to to implement into your life in order to pay 0:09:59.160 --> 0:10:02.120 fewer fees. But first we're gonna talk about some of 0:10:02.160 --> 0:10:04.880 the most egregious feast and how to combat those right 0:10:04.920 --> 0:10:16.839 after the break. All right, Joe, we are back from 0:10:16.840 --> 0:10:19.480 the break. We're here to talk about why fees, why 0:10:19.480 --> 0:10:21.520 they totally suck man, And let's go ahead now and 0:10:21.559 --> 0:10:24.160 discuss some the most prominent fees that you'll likely encounter 0:10:24.240 --> 0:10:26.240 and how you can never pay them. Let's first talk 0:10:26.280 --> 0:10:30.319 about overdraft fees. This is probably the most egregious fee 0:10:30.360 --> 0:10:32.440 that's out there. This is when a three dollar coffee 0:10:32.440 --> 0:10:35.080 could actually cost you thirty five or forty bucks. Since 0:10:35.120 --> 0:10:38.600 the average overdraft fee is thirty three dollars and thirty 0:10:38.640 --> 0:10:42.360 six cents, Americans paid thirty four billion dollars with a 0:10:42.400 --> 0:10:47.040 B not Yeah, thirty four billion dollars in overdraft fees 0:10:47.080 --> 0:10:49.520 a couple of years ago. That is just an insane 0:10:49.679 --> 0:10:52.200 amount of money going to the banks. Man. This is 0:10:52.240 --> 0:10:54.280 part of the reason why we prefer not to use 0:10:54.320 --> 0:10:57.079 a debit card at all, and instead we prefer credit cards. 0:10:57.520 --> 0:11:00.880 But you can avoid these fees by opting out of 0:11:00.920 --> 0:11:04.040 your bank overdraft protection service. Just make sure that you 0:11:04.080 --> 0:11:06.960 are aware that oftentimes they can use tricky language to 0:11:07.000 --> 0:11:09.360 try to get you to sign up to protect your money. Yeah, 0:11:09.360 --> 0:11:10.840 they try to make an opt out look like an 0:11:10.840 --> 0:11:13.480 opt in or vice versa. They try to make it 0:11:13.520 --> 0:11:17.800 seem like the overdraft protection services is what you want, 0:11:18.160 --> 0:11:20.280 but that's not what you want. You prefer for your 0:11:20.320 --> 0:11:23.120 debit card to get declined in a situation where you 0:11:23.120 --> 0:11:25.280 didn't have the funds to cover the purchase, because that 0:11:25.280 --> 0:11:28.320 would avoid that pesky overdraft fee. And if you don't 0:11:28.360 --> 0:11:30.880 even realize that you're doing it, you might purchase four 0:11:30.920 --> 0:11:33.120 or five six things that day and you could rack 0:11:33.200 --> 0:11:36.000 up a hundred fifty a hundred and eighty dollars in 0:11:36.080 --> 0:11:39.679 overdraft fees in just a day or two of not 0:11:39.760 --> 0:11:42.920 realizing that your balance was low. That's a lot of beer. Yeah, 0:11:42.960 --> 0:11:45.360 if you're making that many beer purchases, right, Yeah, that's 0:11:45.400 --> 0:11:48.440 expensive beer too. We like expensive beer, but not expensive 0:11:48.480 --> 0:11:51.360 beer in the form where you're paying fees exactly. Another 0:11:51.480 --> 0:11:53.800 really pesky fee that you're going to encounter that's really 0:11:53.800 --> 0:11:57.360 prominent are a t M fees. Well, I mean, honestly, 0:11:57.400 --> 0:11:59.240 how often are we using a t MC these days? 0:11:59.280 --> 0:12:02.120 I feel like it's something that is far less relevant 0:12:02.160 --> 0:12:04.680 in our lives. There's more, it's so much easier for 0:12:04.760 --> 0:12:07.960 us to pay with our credit cards or with even 0:12:08.000 --> 0:12:10.760 mobile payments. But if you do like to hit up 0:12:10.760 --> 0:12:12.520 the a t M from time to time, we'll do 0:12:12.600 --> 0:12:15.199 business with a bank that reimburses a t M fees. 0:12:15.640 --> 0:12:17.959 A lot of banks have networks of free machines that 0:12:18.000 --> 0:12:21.760 you can use online. Banks in particular often have access 0:12:21.800 --> 0:12:25.160 to like the All point Network of a t M 0:12:25.240 --> 0:12:28.400 s that are available at most cvous and target stores. 0:12:28.960 --> 0:12:31.720 And like with Ally, you can use any a t M, 0:12:31.720 --> 0:12:34.760 but they'll only reimburse up the ten bucks of a 0:12:34.920 --> 0:12:38.200 t M search charges every month. Yeah, it's limited, right, Joel. 0:12:38.240 --> 0:12:39.959 I use Ally, and so if I need some cash, 0:12:40.320 --> 0:12:43.760 make sure to make it raine hundreds of dollars at once, 0:12:43.960 --> 0:12:46.840 why not just to avoid that fee, or instead you 0:12:46.840 --> 0:12:50.440 can go with a Schwab because they reimburse all of 0:12:50.440 --> 0:12:53.360 your a t M fees, which is fantastic. Yeah, And sometimes, 0:12:53.400 --> 0:12:55.760 like when you're using an a t M, interestingly enough, 0:12:55.760 --> 0:12:58.120 there can be two charges. There can be a charge 0:12:58.160 --> 0:13:00.360 that your bank imposes on you, and then there can 0:13:00.400 --> 0:13:02.560 be a third party a t M fee depending on 0:13:02.600 --> 0:13:04.680 what it Like, if you're at some bar in a 0:13:04.720 --> 0:13:06.640 hole in the wall in the middle of nowhere, there's 0:13:06.679 --> 0:13:08.520 in all likelihood gonna be like a six dollar search 0:13:08.640 --> 0:13:10.120 arge or something on that a t M for you 0:13:10.240 --> 0:13:11.760 to pull money out, or if you're in Vegas, it 0:13:11.760 --> 0:13:14.240 could be like twenty bucks. Yeah, it could be insane, seriously, 0:13:14.320 --> 0:13:16.160 And and one of the banks that actually kind of 0:13:16.160 --> 0:13:19.760 started it all with reimbursing those third party search charges 0:13:19.840 --> 0:13:21.920 as well when it comes to a t M fees 0:13:22.320 --> 0:13:25.400 is Charles Schwab. So yeah, they're a great bank. If 0:13:25.400 --> 0:13:28.160 you do a lot of a t M withdrawals kind 0:13:28.200 --> 0:13:30.360 of all over the place, particularly in Vegas, and you 0:13:30.360 --> 0:13:32.360 want to say about a lot of money, well, Schwab 0:13:32.440 --> 0:13:34.560 Bank is definitely a good one for you to consider, 0:13:34.640 --> 0:13:37.400 all right, Matt. And another prominent fee that a lot 0:13:37.440 --> 0:13:41.160 of people pay is monthly account fees for banking. So yeah, 0:13:41.200 --> 0:13:43.360 these first ones we mentioned all have to do with 0:13:43.920 --> 0:13:47.199 banks charging you excess fees. And man, they are they 0:13:47.240 --> 0:13:50.920 become wizards essentially at charging people fees. They're really really 0:13:50.960 --> 0:13:53.319 good at it, in particularly the big banks. They love 0:13:53.360 --> 0:13:56.040 to charge fees and that's how they make their money. Well, 0:13:56.559 --> 0:13:59.120 so what would we say to someone paying monthly account 0:13:59.120 --> 0:14:01.839 fees every month? Stop doing business with the bank that 0:14:01.960 --> 0:14:04.600 stinks and is looking to nickel and dime you every 0:14:04.679 --> 0:14:07.400 chance they get. Go to a bank that doesn't charge 0:14:07.440 --> 0:14:09.960 fees for low balances. We think the best place to 0:14:10.000 --> 0:14:13.320 turn for your banking needs are online banks. We like 0:14:13.360 --> 0:14:16.839 credit unions a lot, but in particular for banking services 0:14:16.960 --> 0:14:20.960 and checking and savings accounts. Online banks have the best 0:14:21.000 --> 0:14:24.320 offerings for a lot of reasons. And yeah, a few 0:14:24.360 --> 0:14:27.360 of our favorites, as we mentioned often our discover Ally 0:14:27.440 --> 0:14:29.720 and c I T. So open up a new account 0:14:29.960 --> 0:14:32.560 and if you're paying five, seven, twelve dollars a month 0:14:32.600 --> 0:14:35.120 whatever you're paying to have a checking account with a bank, 0:14:35.520 --> 0:14:37.960 stop and get a new one somewhere else. Because those 0:14:38.000 --> 0:14:40.120 fees out up. You're talking about a hundred hundred, thirty 0:14:40.200 --> 0:14:42.920 hundred and fifty bucks a year just for the privilege 0:14:42.920 --> 0:14:45.120 of doing business with that bank, and at the same time, 0:14:45.120 --> 0:14:47.600 they're paying you nothing on your money. Get rid of 0:14:47.800 --> 0:14:49.760 that bank and find a new one, a bank that's 0:14:49.760 --> 0:14:52.280 gonna respect you and not charge you ridiculous fees like that. 0:14:52.520 --> 0:14:57.080 So Joel, quick little confession. I am actually still doing 0:14:57.160 --> 0:15:00.360 business with one of those big banks to charge a 0:15:00.400 --> 0:15:05.320 monthly account maintenance fee, specifically if my average monthly balanced 0:15:05.400 --> 0:15:07.520 in my business checking account, if it dips below if 0:15:07.560 --> 0:15:11.040 I founder bucks, it's pretty lame. Huh yeah, man, all right, 0:15:11.080 --> 0:15:12.640 can we change that this week? Yeah? Well, here's the 0:15:12.680 --> 0:15:14.720 thing is that it actually gets even worse because they 0:15:14.760 --> 0:15:19.560 also charge if my personal checking account dips below hundred dollars, 0:15:19.800 --> 0:15:22.720 which is a pretty large threshold. That's a total of 0:15:22.720 --> 0:15:26.200 two thousand dollars that is sitting there that is doing 0:15:26.240 --> 0:15:29.000 nothing for me. I have to admit I'm a little ashamed. 0:15:29.240 --> 0:15:33.040 All right, well you're forgiven, But but I would say, yeah, 0:15:33.120 --> 0:15:35.480 like just like anybody else listening who is doing business 0:15:35.680 --> 0:15:38.440 with a bank that is setting up these artificial thresholds, 0:15:38.600 --> 0:15:41.000 of what you need to make to avoid fees. Honestly, 0:15:41.040 --> 0:15:43.200 sometimes it's hard to remember, or you spend a little 0:15:43.200 --> 0:15:44.680 too much out of that account and then you get 0:15:44.720 --> 0:15:47.200 charged the fee. It's really frustrating, it's really annoying. So 0:15:47.280 --> 0:15:50.040 I would just prioritize doing business with a bank that 0:15:50.160 --> 0:15:54.120 doesn't have those just kind of ridiculous arbitrary numbers of 0:15:54.280 --> 0:15:56.600 a required minimum balance that you have to meet every month. 0:15:56.880 --> 0:15:58.960 Just make it easier and just go with a bank 0:15:59.000 --> 0:16:02.200 that doesn't charge those stupid pesky fees. Yeah. Man, for 0:16:02.240 --> 0:16:04.720 me though, Like the reason I've kept that account around 0:16:04.840 --> 0:16:07.160 is because I've always thought I needed to have a local, 0:16:07.440 --> 0:16:09.320 convenient bank to be able to make some of those 0:16:09.320 --> 0:16:12.520 cash deposits that I received from time to time. You know, 0:16:12.560 --> 0:16:14.640 like sometimes you want to sell something on the neighborhood 0:16:14.720 --> 0:16:17.520 yard sale site and they don't pay you in via 0:16:17.600 --> 0:16:20.680 Venmo or cash app. They pay you in actual hard cash. 0:16:21.160 --> 0:16:23.160 But the fact is, like you don't really need to 0:16:23.280 --> 0:16:25.240 deposit that money, Like you can have that money go 0:16:25.320 --> 0:16:27.440 towards your groceries that month, or you can you know, 0:16:27.520 --> 0:16:29.600 take that money to the restaurant. I guess that's what 0:16:29.640 --> 0:16:31.680 I'm saying at this point is I want to commit 0:16:31.840 --> 0:16:34.960 to closing that account and by the time this episode 0:16:35.240 --> 0:16:38.080 airs and I'll be doing smarter things with my money. Yeah. 0:16:38.160 --> 0:16:40.000 Right now it's kind of being held hostage, but you 0:16:40.040 --> 0:16:42.600 know what, it leaves a good way to think about it. Yeah, 0:16:42.720 --> 0:16:45.360 but at least you're avoiding the fees, right. I think 0:16:45.960 --> 0:16:47.760 if people know the threshold they have to hit and 0:16:47.800 --> 0:16:49.520 they want to do business with a certain bank that 0:16:49.600 --> 0:16:53.000 does charge fees like that, but has these thresholds, it's 0:16:53.040 --> 0:16:55.360 okay to do business with that bank. If you have 0:16:55.440 --> 0:16:58.200 a long standing relationship, or if you feel like the 0:16:58.240 --> 0:17:02.040 benefits that you get for meeting a minimum required balance 0:17:02.360 --> 0:17:05.680 are worth it, then it's okay to do that, I think. 0:17:05.880 --> 0:17:08.159 But just make sure you know what you're doing so 0:17:08.200 --> 0:17:10.320 that you can avoid those fees, because it's ultimately those 0:17:10.359 --> 0:17:11.800 fees that you don't want to pay. You don't want 0:17:11.840 --> 0:17:14.520 to be paying ten, twelve whatever bucks a month for 0:17:14.640 --> 0:17:17.479 the account for the privilege of doing business When banks 0:17:17.520 --> 0:17:20.399 all across the country, really really good banks want your 0:17:20.440 --> 0:17:23.280 business and don't want to make you pay in order 0:17:23.320 --> 0:17:25.520 to have an account with them. That's what you want 0:17:25.520 --> 0:17:27.960 to avoid more than anything else. And Jel not only 0:17:28.000 --> 0:17:30.480 are they not charging you to do business with them, 0:17:30.560 --> 0:17:33.399 but they're paying you. Right, all the greats online banks 0:17:33.480 --> 0:17:36.040 that we are fans of, they are paying substantially more 0:17:36.080 --> 0:17:38.520 on their high interest savings accounts. It comes out to 0:17:38.600 --> 0:17:42.040 about two hundred times more every single year. Yeah, that's 0:17:42.080 --> 0:17:45.280 big money. All right. Let's talk about another prominent fee, 0:17:45.280 --> 0:17:48.000 pesky fee that you'll encounter that you can avoid, and 0:17:48.040 --> 0:17:51.600 that's a foreign transaction fee. And these foreign transaction fees, 0:17:51.600 --> 0:17:54.080 they've actually become a little bit easier to avoid overtime, 0:17:54.400 --> 0:17:57.200 not nearly as many credit card issuers charge a three 0:17:57.240 --> 0:17:59.480 percent fee that kind of used to be the standard. 0:17:59.680 --> 0:18:01.840 If you go overseas, your credit card issue or was 0:18:01.880 --> 0:18:04.560 going to charge you roughly three for the privilege of 0:18:04.640 --> 0:18:07.600 using that card overseas well. Make sure you check the 0:18:07.640 --> 0:18:12.320 fine print on your cards. But cards like Capital One's Venture, Chase, 0:18:12.359 --> 0:18:15.720 Sapphire Preferred and all of Discovers cards, they don't charge 0:18:15.920 --> 0:18:19.439 that foreign transaction fee. And you can check out what 0:18:19.520 --> 0:18:21.400 cards are our favorites at how to money dot com. 0:18:21.440 --> 0:18:24.280 Slash credit cards. But really, if you do a decent 0:18:24.320 --> 0:18:27.399 bit of international travel, prioritizing a card that doesn't have 0:18:27.440 --> 0:18:29.480 any sort of foreign transaction fee. Well, that's going to 0:18:29.560 --> 0:18:32.000 save you a good bit of money over time as 0:18:32.000 --> 0:18:35.200 you are traveling overseas and making purchases are jell. Another 0:18:35.280 --> 0:18:38.480 instance where you might be paying a fee every single 0:18:38.520 --> 0:18:42.080 month is when it comes to your utilities. Oftentimes you'll 0:18:42.080 --> 0:18:45.359 be charged three percent or more to pay your water 0:18:45.520 --> 0:18:48.280 or electric bill online with a credit card. This can 0:18:48.320 --> 0:18:50.439 be really frustrating to not be able to use a 0:18:50.560 --> 0:18:53.240 card when otherwise you know that you could be earning 0:18:53.280 --> 0:18:55.439 cash back for those payments. You know, I try to 0:18:55.480 --> 0:18:57.760 put everything on my credit card and then pay them 0:18:57.760 --> 0:18:59.439 off at the end of the month, of course, but 0:19:00.040 --> 0:19:01.840