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Speaker 1: Welcome to the Therapy for Black Girls Podcast, a weekly

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Speaker 1: conversation about mental health, personal development, and all the small

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Speaker 1: decisions we can make to become the best possible versions

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Speaker 1: of ourselves. I'm your host, doctor Joy hard and Bradford,

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Speaker 1: a licensed psychologist in Atlanta, Georgia. For more information or

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Speaker 1: to find a therapist in your area, visit our website

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Speaker 1: at Therapy for Blackgirls dot com. While I hope you

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Speaker 1: love listening to and learning from the podcast, it is

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Speaker 1: not meant to be a substitute for a relationship with

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Speaker 1: a licensed mental health professional. Hey y'all, thanks so much

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Speaker 1: for joining me for session three twenty four of the

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Speaker 1: therapyla Girls Podcast. We'll get run into our conversation after

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Speaker 1: a word from our sponsors. Which friend are you? And

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Speaker 1: your sister circle? Are you the wallflower, the peacemaker, the

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Speaker 1: firecracker or the leader? Take the quiz at Sisterhoodheels dot

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Speaker 1: to grab your copy of Sisterhood Heels to find out

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Speaker 1: more about how you can be a better friend and

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Speaker 1: how your circle can do a better job of supporting you.

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Speaker 1: Order yours today at Sisterhoodheels dot com. Deciding to enlist

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Speaker 1: in the military is a huge decision, and when you

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Speaker 1: have a family, that choice may come with changing dynamics,

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Speaker 1: tough conversations with children, and anxiety for spouses that are

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Speaker 1: left behind. However, this isn't a battle you have to

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Speaker 1: fight alone. To shed some light on this experience and

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Speaker 1: share what resources are available to military faiamilies, I'm joined

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Speaker 1: today by United States Navy veterans Kasey King and doctor

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Speaker 1: DeAndrea Jackson, a licensed marriage and family therapist and a

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Speaker 1: licensed clinical psychologist, respectively. In our conversation, we discuss strategies

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Speaker 1: for explaining military deployment to young children, ways for military

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Speaker 1: spouses to practice self care, and how to help spouses

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Speaker 1: reintegrate into the home after time away. If something resonates

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Speaker 1: with you while enjoying our conversation, please share with us

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Speaker 1: on social media using the hashtag TBG in session or

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Speaker 1: join us over in the sister circle To talk more

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Speaker 1: about the episode, you can join us at community dot

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Speaker 1: therapy for Blackgirls dot Com. Here's our conversation, Doctor Jackson, Casey,

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Speaker 1: I'm so glad you both could join me today to

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Speaker 1: discuss your dual experiences as both military veterans and military

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Speaker 1: family members to start, Doctor Jackson, could you tell me

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Speaker 1: a little bit about upbringing as a part of a

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Speaker 1: military family.

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Speaker 2: My dad was a pastor up until the age of

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Speaker 2: about eleven. When I was about eleven years old, he

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Speaker 2: decided that he was going to fulfill his dream to

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Speaker 2: become a Navy chaplain and that was a major transition

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Speaker 2: for us. Prior to my birth and my brother's birth,

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Speaker 2: he was active duty, but he was enlisted, and it

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Speaker 2: was always his dream to become a Navy chaplain. So

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Speaker 2: he decided at that point, and my family's all right,

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Speaker 2: I'm good, I'm ready for something different, and I want

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Speaker 2: to see the world. And so he and my mother

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Speaker 2: decided that they were going to embark on this military journey.

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Speaker 2: So into the Navy he went, and he was commissioned,

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Speaker 2: and we had an amazing commissioning ceremony for him at

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Speaker 2: our church and it was such a huge celebration to

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Speaker 2: seeing him sworn in and being able to put his

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Speaker 2: shoulder boards on for his rank insignia. It was such

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Speaker 2: a positive experience. And then he said, we're in the

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Speaker 2: Navy now and we're moving to ok now A, Japan,

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Speaker 2: and I don't think at eleven, geography really made that

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Speaker 2: much sense to me because I spend the little globe

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Speaker 2: or look at the map and I was like, okay,

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Speaker 2: well Japan is over here, but didn't know that Okanaw

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Speaker 2: was this tiny little island way below the mainland of Japan.

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Speaker 2: And it didn't dawn on me exactly how far we

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Speaker 2: were going until we boarded a plane for a twenty

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Speaker 2: four plus hour flight to Oka, now Japan, where we

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Speaker 2: lived for three years. And that was our initial induction

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Speaker 2: into what military life was like. My dad served twenty

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Speaker 2: plus years on active duty, and at one point we

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Speaker 2: served together. He swore me in in the chaplain of

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Speaker 2: the Senate's office and it was a wonderful experience, and

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Speaker 2: that's really what gave me exposure to military culture, pride

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Speaker 2: and service, and a keen understanding of what military families

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Speaker 2: really deal with.

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Speaker 1: A keen understanding. Indeed, that's quite the culture shift for

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Speaker 1: an eleven year old to go through. Thank you for

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Speaker 1: sharing that, Doctor Jackson and Casey, you're a licensed marriage

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Speaker 1: and family therapist, a veteran, and a military wife. Can

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Speaker 1: you talk to us about how those three experiences have

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Speaker 1: impacted the work you're doing in your community.

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Speaker 3: Wow.

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Speaker 4: So being a therapist, being a spouse, and also being

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Speaker 4: a veteran, just all of that combined together, I think

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Speaker 4: one resilience being able to fully understand the community that

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Speaker 4: I'm working with, being able to understand trauma as a spouse,

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Speaker 4: as someone who is you know, has vicariously gone through it.

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Speaker 3: I can be able to.

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Speaker 4: Sit in hole space for those who are across from

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Speaker 4: me who are going through those experiences as well.

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Speaker 1: And how many years did you and your partner serve

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Speaker 1: in the military collectively?

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Speaker 4: Almost thirty two years. I did about eight and a

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Speaker 4: half years. I told my husband you can have it.

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Speaker 4: I'm done with this and he just retired last year

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Speaker 4: after twenty three years.

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Speaker 1: Wow. Yeah, so great delitary is for both of you.

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Speaker 1: Did you all meet in the military.

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Speaker 4: Yes, Actually he came through We're in Gulfport, Mississippi, and

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Speaker 4: I noticed his car before I noticed him. I'm such

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Speaker 4: a lover of old school cars, and I saw the Cadillac.

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Speaker 4: I was a military police he was coming through the

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Speaker 4: gate and I told my girlfriend that was there with me.

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Speaker 4: I really liked that car. And he just happened to

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Speaker 4: be in there, and he was handsome too.

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Speaker 1: Oh I love that. Wow, what a romantic military meet

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Speaker 1: cute story. So, after hearing from both of you, I

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Speaker 1: can already imagine that the experience of being either a

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Speaker 1: spouse of a military member or a child of one

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Speaker 1: can be quite stressful. Doctor Jackson, can you talk a

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Speaker 1: little bit about mental health support that you and your

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Speaker 1: family received as you were getting acclimated to this new life.

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Speaker 2: Because we were new to the experience, I don't even

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Speaker 2: think my parents knew too much about what resources may

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Speaker 2: have been a level there to support us with that

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Speaker 2: kind of transition. You do have access to the behavioral

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Speaker 2: health clinics, and oftentimes in overseas environments they do have

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Speaker 2: child psychologists on staff that would have been of major assistance.

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Speaker 2: But really the way we navigated it was just as

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Speaker 2: a family and as a community, and as you started

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Speaker 2: to get closer to other people. When you move to

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Speaker 2: a new location, regardless of whether you're domestic or overseas,

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Speaker 2: you're assigned a sponsor, and that sponsor gets you acclimated

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Speaker 2: to the area. They tell you where things are, they

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Speaker 2: show you where you're going to live. They introduce you

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Speaker 2: to other people to help build community for you. While

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Speaker 2: you're there. So a lot of it for us was

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Speaker 2: really leaning into the people that we were meeting and

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Speaker 2: learning to understand what their experiences are while they're living there.

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Speaker 2: I do recall before we've moved to Okinawa, we met

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Speaker 2: with a distant family friend who had just returned from Okinawa,

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Speaker 2: and I don't know that that was really helpful. Joy

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Speaker 2: the kids were like, oh my goodness, we're so glad

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Speaker 2: to be back in America. We didn't have a cable.

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Speaker 2: They just got cable. One of the things that like

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Speaker 2: astonished me. They were like, we didn't have real milk

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Speaker 2: on the basis until recently, And I said, what, y'all

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Speaker 2: don't have two percent milk? What's going on? But because

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Speaker 2: the distance the location, some of those creature comforts that

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Speaker 2: we experience here domestically are not always accessible there. One

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Speaker 2: of the highlights of our tour while we were there

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Speaker 2: was that they got a taco bell on base just

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Speaker 2: before we were leaving. We got to get a taste

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Speaker 2: of Mexican pizzas. Again. So those can be some of

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Speaker 2: the hard transitions of figuring out how you move right,

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Speaker 2: how do you physically relocate your family, and then how

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Speaker 2: do you connect with new people once you get there.

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Speaker 2: It was really challenging to support us. I think my

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Speaker 2: parents did keep us in school. We moved towards the

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Speaker 2: end of the school year, and of course you know

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Speaker 2: how that is. Moving children can be difficult. But because

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Speaker 2: my dad's orders were executed in April, we did some

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Speaker 2: acceleration at our private school prior to leaving the DC area,

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Speaker 2: so we had technically finished all of the academic requirements

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Speaker 2: for the school year. But my parents had enough foresight

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Speaker 2: to say, if we don't get them in school, they're

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Speaker 2: not going to be able to meet friends or establish

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Speaker 2: their own community of peers. Once we get there, it'll

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Speaker 2: be harder. So while we knew we were finished with

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Speaker 2: school when we were going through the motions, we understood

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Speaker 2: that it was an important piece of our transition, and

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Speaker 2: that was really helpful. One of the first people that

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Speaker 2: I met when I moved there, her name was Tori,

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Speaker 2: one of my best friends in the whole wide world.

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Speaker 2: We say. She was one of the first people I met,

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Speaker 2: and she really helped me acclimate to what it was

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Speaker 2: like being overseas. We lived on the same base and

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Speaker 2: we were able to link up, and that was an

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Speaker 2: interesting experience, and I appreciate the depth that our friendship

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Speaker 2: still has because of that unique experience that we shared

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Speaker 2: during our time Okinawa.

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Speaker 1: So doctor Jackson, you of course have the unique vantage

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Speaker 1: point of having been a psychologist in the Navy and

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Speaker 1: also having your dad's experience. Can you talk a little

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Speaker 1: bit about how you've seen mental health conversations change in

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Speaker 1: the military across some of that time.

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Speaker 2: With the ramp up, I think of the war Iraqi

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Speaker 2: Freedom and during Freedom there was a lot of focus

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Speaker 2: on trauma. There was a lot of focus on deployment.

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Speaker 2: There was a lot of focus on military readiness, like

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Speaker 2: how do we keep our force actively worldwide, deployable, and

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Speaker 2: so there has been a focus on making sure that

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Speaker 2: active duty service members are robustly supported with the resources

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Speaker 2: that are provided. And military psychology has really always been

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Speaker 2: on the forefront of new trends emerging trends in the

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Speaker 2: field of psychology. So from the standpoint of active duty

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Speaker 2: service members, I think it's in a really great space.

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Speaker 2: Is there always work to be done, sure, but it's

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Speaker 2: pretty solid in terms of what they're able to provide.

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Speaker 2: Family wise, I think there are more opportunities, but the

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Speaker 2: major military treatment facilities. The clinics that are typically operated

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Speaker 2: on base, which is what we would identify as the

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Speaker 2: military treatment system, is not often geared towards supporting the

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Speaker 2: dependence of the active duty service members. In the mental

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Speaker 2: health clinics specifically, you can go there and get your

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Speaker 2: care for primary care or specialists that you need to see,

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Speaker 2: but if the behavioral health clinic is at capacity, they

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Speaker 2: start deferring to the network family members, spouses, children even

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Speaker 2: for their care. And I think that's an area where

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Speaker 2: things could improve. It's really challenging as a military family

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Speaker 2: member to move into a community space or with a

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Speaker 2: community provider who really understands the culture, the stresses, and

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Speaker 2: the challenges that military families experience on a day to

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Speaker 2: day basis. And that's because I think there's been so

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Speaker 2: much talk about trauma and about deployment that it kind

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Speaker 2: of gets circumscribed as that's the biggest stressor for a

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Speaker 2: military family when it is one of the bigger stressors,

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Speaker 2: but it's not in the top four actually in terms

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Speaker 2: of military families who were surveyed around what their stressors

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Speaker 2: actually are.

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Speaker 1: Can you say more about their survey What were some

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Speaker 1: of the bigger stressors So this survey.

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Speaker 2: The most recent one, included about ninety three hundred military

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Speaker 2: families worldwide, and it's called the Military Family Lifestyle Survey,

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Speaker 2: and this twenty twenty three iteration of it found that

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Speaker 2: the top four stressors were family financial wellbeing, military spouse, employment,

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Speaker 2: the impact of service, so things like time away, relocation,

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Speaker 2: child education, childcare. Those were the top three for active

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Speaker 2: service families, and then for veterans, the major issue was

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Speaker 2: access to quality healthcare. Deployment anywhere to be found in

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Speaker 2: those top levels of what those stressors are, and I

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Speaker 2: think in part that's because the pace of deployments has

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Speaker 2: really slowed down significantly in the last several years. But

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Speaker 2: I think it also just recognizes that we pretty much

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Speaker 2: expect at some point our loved one is going to deploy,

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Speaker 2: whether that's on a ship, on a brief training mission

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Speaker 2: for an extended period a time. We expect that's part

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Speaker 2: of military service. But it's the day to day stressors

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Speaker 2: that can tend to feel even more overwhelming, and I

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Speaker 2: think that sometimes gets overlooked.

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Speaker 1: So you've mentioned when the behavioral clinics on base or

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Speaker 1: a capacity, they begin referring to the network. Are you

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Speaker 1: talking about like neighboring therapists in the area who probably

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Speaker 1: do a lot of work with military families just because

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Speaker 1: of where they're located. Is that what you mean.

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Speaker 2: I'm referring to the insurance network, So neighboring therapists in

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Speaker 2: the area who are credential providers through military. One source

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Speaker 2: which is affiliated with I think it's Beacon Health in

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Speaker 2: Care Leon or those who accept try Care. That's who

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Speaker 2: they will then defer or push referrals out to so

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Speaker 2: that dependent family members can receive services.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. You know, it's interesting that you mentioned that because

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Speaker 1: when I think about some of the resources that have

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Speaker 1: come out of the military, like some of the gold

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Speaker 1: Star standards for lots of evidence based treatments, they come

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Speaker 1: from the military, So it's interesting that they haven't expanded,

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Speaker 1: and you know, started to think about, like, Okay, how

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Speaker 1: do we take care of the greater family outside of

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Speaker 1: the person serving.

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Speaker 2: You know, the military budget is always up for discussion

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Speaker 2: of political settings, so I think that's one element of it,

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Speaker 2: because to expand you have to be able to bring

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Speaker 2: in additional providers, and often ones who are not in

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Speaker 2: uniform are pipelines. I think I discussed that in becoming

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Speaker 2: a therapist the episode the second one. Those pipelines can

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Speaker 2: sometimes be a little slower, and there's not a whole

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Speaker 2: lot of people raising their hands saying I want to

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Speaker 2: serve in the United States military. Those of us who

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Speaker 2: choose to serve our one percent of the general population

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Speaker 2: in the United States, and then that percentage gets even smaller,

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Speaker 2: maybe it's three percent who serve in one person officer

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Speaker 2: can't remember the data, but it is a very small

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Speaker 2: subset of the population who chooses to put on the

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Speaker 2: uniform and wear the cloth of our nation. And so

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Speaker 2: that becomes an even bigger issue. Right when we're talking

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Speaker 2: about clinic management and personnel management. We just don't have

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Speaker 2: the bandwidth of active duty service members to be able

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Speaker 2: to treat all of our active duty personnel in addition

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Speaker 2: to their families and any veterans, And so that then

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Speaker 2: requires them to make decisions around how many folk can

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Speaker 2: we bring on, what's our budget, what's our manning, what's

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Speaker 2: our space. It just becomes that much more of a

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Speaker 2: challenging experience. So where we can refer people to trusted

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Speaker 2: resources that we believe have received the cultural competency training

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Speaker 2: to be able to understand the needs of military fail

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Speaker 2: families or military service members. That can be really helpful

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Speaker 2: so that those on active duty can focus on maintaining

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Speaker 2: the mission of keeping our democracy alive and well and

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Speaker 2: keeping us safe and free.

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Speaker 1: More from our conversation after the break. So as often happens,

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Speaker 1: I think with mental health professionals, some area of our

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Speaker 1: life often becomes our area of study. So your dissertation

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Speaker 1: was actually on the impact of deployment on children of

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Speaker 1: active duty personnel. Can you talk a little bit about

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Speaker 1: what that study found?

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Speaker 2: Oh man, Can I tell you a little bit about

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Speaker 2: why I had decided to do that first?

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Speaker 1: Yeah? Absolutely, So.

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Speaker 2: I went to boarding school for high school, and in

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Speaker 2: my senior year, it's a big time. You get a sweater,

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Speaker 2: you have a senior presentation, it's a very special experience.

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Speaker 2: But that year my father deployed. He was assigned to

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Speaker 2: a ship, and for the majority of my senior year

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Speaker 2: he was off someplace where I didn't know right and

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Speaker 2: it was very difficult to be able to share moments

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Speaker 2: with him. This was at a time where my parents

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Speaker 2: gave me and my roommate a camquarder so that we

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Speaker 2: could record some of the little moments that happened in

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Speaker 2: the year, and I could nail those to my dad

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Speaker 2: and he would receive them in maybe two three weeks

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Speaker 2: after the recording actually took place. And in the instances

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Speaker 2: where he was able to call, it was like, I'm

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Speaker 2: breaking the rules. I'm gonna keep my cell phone because

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Speaker 2: I know my dad is important, and you just gonna

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Speaker 2: have to excuse me as I walk out of this

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Speaker 2: class to take my father's phone call. Kind of experience

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Speaker 2: or moments where you couldn't even reach him. You know

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Speaker 2: he's important. Maybe I missed the call, but it's not

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Speaker 2: a number that I can call back. And so that

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Speaker 2: was a really difficult time, especially in adolescence, as there

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Speaker 2: major milestones but also major challenges. And it was at

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Speaker 2: that point in time that I realized this has an impact.

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Speaker 2: This is an important thing to consider. My cousin, her

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Speaker 2: husband is also an active duty service member. He's a physician,

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Speaker 2: and he deployed at a time when she was pregnant

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Speaker 2: miss delivery. She didn't have her husband there to support

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Speaker 2: her through that process, and she had one small child.

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Speaker 2: And so just seeing in my family what that experience

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Speaker 2: was like to deal with the absence the ambiguous absence

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Speaker 2: of your service member, although they're very much still part

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Speaker 2: of your family system. I said, I need to explore

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Speaker 2: this a little bit, and I actually changed my dissertation

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Speaker 2: topic to reflect that I was previously interested in the

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Speaker 2: relationships with black women, and I said, but there's not

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Speaker 2: so much information out there, not too many studies focusing

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Speaker 2: on the challenges of military families and the children's experience.

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Speaker 2: So I did decide to explore that in my research,

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Speaker 2: and we identified that throughout the cycle of deployment, there

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Speaker 2: are different issues that may arise for children. In the

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Speaker 2: ramp up. There are lots of feelings, maybe confusion, some anxiety.

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Speaker 2: There could be some concern, maybe a little overwhelmed, depending

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Speaker 2: on the age of the child. As that deployment cycle

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Speaker 2: rams up, and then the family member leaves and goes

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Speaker 2: away for training, but they're not yet quite gone. They're

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Speaker 2: just not as accessible. And then there's the deployment period

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Speaker 2: where the family is adjusting, right, like, Okay, we know

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Speaker 2: our roles, we know what's expected, we anticipate what the

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Speaker 2: routine is when we might hear from our loved one,

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Speaker 2: and we're able to be resilient to pull it together

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Speaker 2: and keep going. But then we found that there's a

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Speaker 2: lot of challenge on the reintegration period. You get all

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Speaker 2: excited because you get notification I'm coming home on this day, right,

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Speaker 2: And I remember my dad coming home and he came

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Speaker 2: into port and you see all the nice white uniforms

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Speaker 2: standing on the deck of the ship, and that was

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Speaker 2: super exciting, right. And there was the transition of him

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Speaker 2: coming home and acclimating he had some sea legs, so

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Speaker 2: he wasn't driving for a little while because things just

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Speaker 2: different after you get off of the water. And then

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Speaker 2: it became a process of how do we reintegrate Dad

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Speaker 2: into this system. And in our research we found that

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Speaker 2: that's a really trying time for the family. The roles

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Speaker 2: have been renegotiated. The loved one who's been deployed has

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Speaker 2: been gone for quite some time, so maybe they're not

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Speaker 2: the disciplinarian or the final sign off on what someone

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Speaker 2: can and cannot do as a teenager or as a

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Speaker 2: young person, and finding their way back into that space

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Speaker 2: is difficult for the service member and it's difficult for

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Speaker 2: the family. Sometimes during those parts of the process, we

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Speaker 2: find that younger children, particularly may have some regression in

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Speaker 2: their milestones, so you might see night terrors, you might

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Speaker 2: see bed wedding, you might see more babyish behaviors that

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Speaker 2: you thought your child had grown out of coming back

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Speaker 2: up again because they got really big feelings and they're

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Speaker 2: not quite sure how to handle all of that. And

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Speaker 2: with that research, we were able to identify what services

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Speaker 2: were out there at that point in time. But there

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Speaker 2: were some services emerging at that point in time to

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Speaker 2: help deal with those specific challenges, and they're robust even now,

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Speaker 2: even though the pace of deployments not being what they

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Speaker 2: used to be, those resources are still very much there

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Speaker 2: and accessible and available to military families. We also saw

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Speaker 2: that upon reintegration there's a lot of marital stress, right

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Speaker 2: there's the renegotiation of who's doing what around the home

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Speaker 2: and who's doing what with the children, and the financial element.

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Speaker 2: A lot of people don't know that when you deploy,

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Speaker 2: you actually get an increase in pay so coming home

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Speaker 2: from deployment can actually pose for some families financial strain

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Speaker 2: or financial stress if the money's not been managed well

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Speaker 2: during the deployment period, so that can be an issue.

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Speaker 2: There's a whole issue in navigating the relationship after that

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Speaker 2: honeymoon period, my Boo is back, my bay is here.

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Speaker 2: There can be that difficulty of all this time you've

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Speaker 2: been gone, and I'm tired. It's your turn to pick

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Speaker 2: up right, It's your turn to do a little bit more.

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Speaker 2: But that service member themselves is coming back and they're saying,

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Speaker 2: all this time I've been gone, it's not been a vacation,

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Speaker 2: and I'm tired. And if communication is not good, if

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Speaker 2: parenting practices are not on the same page, it can

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Speaker 2: cause a lot of conflict. And as children observing the

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Speaker 2: dynamic between the parents, of course that has an impact

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Speaker 2: on them as well.

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Speaker 1: So based on the results of your study, doctor Jackson,

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Speaker 1: it sounds like the children of military members are particularly

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Speaker 1: affected by this lifestyle of constant moves and what sounds

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Speaker 1: like a lot of regular uncertainty. Casey, you're the mother

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Speaker 1: of three school age children. I'd love to hear from you.

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Speaker 1: What kinds of things do you do with your children

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Speaker 1: to try and make the situation a little easier for

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Speaker 1: them and help to ground them in this experience.

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Speaker 3: I am very big on family.

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Speaker 4: Grew up with two of my cousins living with my

404
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Speaker 4: first cousins.

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Speaker 3: We're so close their kids call me auntie.

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Speaker 4: So we always try to make sure always call it

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Speaker 4: the world tour. When we transfer, we always try to

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Speaker 4: make sure we stop by and see family. I try

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Speaker 4: to make sure they are very connected to their family,

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Speaker 4: they know who their family is even though they're not

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Speaker 4: close by, and try to have some form of the

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Speaker 4: relationship that we had. So that's one thing I try

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Speaker 4: to do is make sure to still connected to family.

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Speaker 4: Another thing is I talk to them, let them know

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Speaker 4: we're moving. My husband one time he did a whole

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Speaker 4: PowerPoint presentation to talk about where we're going. What's that

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Speaker 4: going to be, like, does that military strategic thing? We

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Speaker 4: try to make it a family event and also just

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Speaker 4: ask them how they're feeling. The middle one, he's such

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Speaker 4: an extrovert. He's always excited for the adventure. The oldest

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Speaker 4: is like, we got to do this again, have to

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Speaker 4: meet people again, and so we always try to make

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Speaker 4: sure to check in with them and see how they're feeling,

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Speaker 4: whether their anxiety is the oldest one should get to

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Speaker 4: a little anxious sometimes, so just talking to them about

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Speaker 4: that and letting them know regardless that we're going to

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Speaker 4: be there as a family unit, we're all going to

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Speaker 4: be there and that's the most important thing.

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Speaker 3: But our door is always open if they want to.

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Speaker 4: Talk about the transition, if they want to talk about

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Speaker 4: the feelings that they're going through, and we let them

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Speaker 4: know those feelings are completely normal and we'll be here

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Speaker 4: with them throughout those Hmm.

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Speaker 1: That communication sounds key. Going back to you, doctor Jackson,

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Speaker 1: are there any specific resources that you can share for

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Speaker 1: anybody who's enjoying our conversation who might find themselves in

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Speaker 1: this situation and want to know where they can find support, specifically,

438
00:24:51,760 --> 00:24:54,400
Speaker 1: any resources for children for children, The.

439
00:24:54,320 --> 00:24:58,720
Speaker 2: Ones that I really like are Operation Purple. Operation Purple

440
00:24:58,800 --> 00:25:03,000
Speaker 2: has camps for for children and for military families geared

441
00:25:03,040 --> 00:25:07,120
Speaker 2: towards connecting each other and creating that community of understanding

442
00:25:07,200 --> 00:25:10,640
Speaker 2: and familiarity. And so they offer these camps throughout the year,

443
00:25:10,680 --> 00:25:12,399
Speaker 2: and I think they have a summer camp and a

444
00:25:12,400 --> 00:25:15,440
Speaker 2: one day family camp that's offered and you can find

445
00:25:15,480 --> 00:25:21,560
Speaker 2: them online under Operation Purple. For relocation services, there are

446
00:25:21,600 --> 00:25:26,640
Speaker 2: resources through the Yellow Ribbon for National Guard families, and

447
00:25:26,760 --> 00:25:30,399
Speaker 2: there are resources through the Penn State School Penn State

448
00:25:30,480 --> 00:25:35,639
Speaker 2: School resources about military families and that addresses the specific

449
00:25:35,800 --> 00:25:41,199
Speaker 2: needs of military children and how they can thrive academically, behaviorally,

450
00:25:41,400 --> 00:25:45,080
Speaker 2: and with their mental health by connecting them with individuals

451
00:25:45,119 --> 00:25:50,040
Speaker 2: who understand the needs of military families. For children and families.

452
00:25:50,040 --> 00:25:53,439
Speaker 2: There's also a program called Focus and that stands for

453
00:25:53,600 --> 00:25:58,080
Speaker 2: Families Overcoming under Stress, and they have resources to assist

454
00:25:58,320 --> 00:26:03,119
Speaker 2: military families with issues that they experience even outside of

455
00:26:03,160 --> 00:26:04,440
Speaker 2: the context of deployment.

456
00:26:05,000 --> 00:26:07,240
Speaker 1: Thank you for that. In casey, do you know of

457
00:26:07,320 --> 00:26:10,280
Speaker 1: any resources that are specific to black military families.

458
00:26:10,680 --> 00:26:15,560
Speaker 4: Yes, Facebook, Facebook, there is a group Black Military Wise,

459
00:26:15,840 --> 00:26:17,200
Speaker 4: Black Military Spouses.

460
00:26:17,640 --> 00:26:19,600
Speaker 3: They are there because those are things.

461
00:26:19,359 --> 00:26:22,680
Speaker 4: Again that we need when we're looking for a black therapist,

462
00:26:22,760 --> 00:26:25,840
Speaker 4: we're looking for a black obgyn. We want to know

463
00:26:25,960 --> 00:26:31,760
Speaker 4: the schools that have black teachers or military teachers. So

464
00:26:32,480 --> 00:26:36,680
Speaker 4: for us to still be intertwined with our community as

465
00:26:36,720 --> 00:26:40,440
Speaker 4: black people is definitely important to us. Because ninety two

466
00:26:40,520 --> 00:26:44,080
Speaker 4: percent of military spouses are women, but only fifteen percent

467
00:26:44,119 --> 00:26:48,880
Speaker 4: of them are Black women. And so let's say, for example,

468
00:26:49,040 --> 00:26:52,960
Speaker 4: on one street of ten homes on one side, you

469
00:26:53,040 --> 00:26:56,560
Speaker 4: may have one or two that are black women. I

470
00:26:56,960 --> 00:26:59,680
Speaker 4: lived in a neighborhood on both sides of the street

471
00:27:00,160 --> 00:27:02,840
Speaker 4: was me and it was one other person two door down,

472
00:27:03,560 --> 00:27:07,359
Speaker 4: and that was it. And we think fifteen percent is

473
00:27:07,400 --> 00:27:09,919
Speaker 4: a really big number. But when you look not just

474
00:27:10,000 --> 00:27:13,399
Speaker 4: stay side, you look in other countries, they are not

475
00:27:13,560 --> 00:27:17,560
Speaker 4: many of us collectively around, So we do rely on

476
00:27:17,720 --> 00:27:21,960
Speaker 4: those groups that black military wise, black military spouses, black

477
00:27:22,000 --> 00:27:27,359
Speaker 4: spouses of whatever state that you're in to really help

478
00:27:27,440 --> 00:27:29,920
Speaker 4: and be a support during these times.

479
00:27:30,320 --> 00:27:32,719
Speaker 1: Thank you both so much for sharing those resources. I'm

480
00:27:32,760 --> 00:27:35,639
Speaker 1: sure many people will find those helpful. I want to

481
00:27:35,680 --> 00:27:38,120
Speaker 1: go back to a comment you made earlier, doctor Jackson,

482
00:27:38,200 --> 00:27:41,480
Speaker 1: about being the partner of an active duty personnel member

483
00:27:41,800 --> 00:27:44,680
Speaker 1: and how dynamics can change once that military member comes

484
00:27:44,680 --> 00:27:47,639
Speaker 1: back home. Can you talk a little about what treatment

485
00:27:47,640 --> 00:27:49,880
Speaker 1: would look like and how you might help that kind

486
00:27:49,920 --> 00:27:52,240
Speaker 1: of couple with some of those difficult conversations.

487
00:27:52,400 --> 00:27:57,639
Speaker 2: Oh man, couple counseling can't stress it enough. If you

488
00:27:57,800 --> 00:28:00,880
Speaker 2: need it, see if your local military TI treatment facility

489
00:28:01,000 --> 00:28:04,400
Speaker 2: offers couples counseling, and if they don't, get a referral

490
00:28:04,440 --> 00:28:06,439
Speaker 2: to the network with someone that you can trust to

491
00:28:06,560 --> 00:28:10,840
Speaker 2: understand the culture. That would be my first line of

492
00:28:10,880 --> 00:28:14,000
Speaker 2: intervention if it's necessary, Like if there are those level

493
00:28:14,040 --> 00:28:17,399
Speaker 2: of problems in acute conflict, couple's therapy would be the

494
00:28:17,400 --> 00:28:20,760
Speaker 2: thing In the absence of that, there are other options

495
00:28:20,800 --> 00:28:25,840
Speaker 2: provided through chaplains. Active duty chaplains all of their departments

496
00:28:26,160 --> 00:28:30,280
Speaker 2: tend to offer retreats. They also offer counseling and support

497
00:28:30,480 --> 00:28:35,000
Speaker 2: pastoral counseling and support that can be accessible to military families.

498
00:28:35,320 --> 00:28:39,520
Speaker 2: But in the office, I would recommend talking a lot

499
00:28:39,560 --> 00:28:48,520
Speaker 2: about communication and roles and expectations, talking about needs, emotional needs,

500
00:28:48,560 --> 00:28:51,560
Speaker 2: attachment needs, like what is going on that maybe miss

501
00:28:51,600 --> 00:28:54,320
Speaker 2: that your partner can come in and address, so that

502
00:28:54,400 --> 00:28:57,560
Speaker 2: the core issues are being met right Oftentimes it's not

503
00:28:57,840 --> 00:29:02,520
Speaker 2: just I'm tired physically, it's I'm tired. Do you see

504
00:29:02,560 --> 00:29:06,200
Speaker 2: all that I've been doing. Do you value the sacrifice

505
00:29:06,240 --> 00:29:09,360
Speaker 2: that I've been making while you've been able to go

506
00:29:09,400 --> 00:29:12,239
Speaker 2: and do your job. Do you understand that there were

507
00:29:12,280 --> 00:29:14,120
Speaker 2: a lot of things that may have happened here that

508
00:29:14,200 --> 00:29:17,160
Speaker 2: we didn't discuss or share with you because you needed

509
00:29:17,200 --> 00:29:20,280
Speaker 2: to be focused on the mission. That's really often encouraged

510
00:29:20,400 --> 00:29:23,120
Speaker 2: is that you military spouse is you keep that to

511
00:29:23,200 --> 00:29:25,280
Speaker 2: yourself and you figure that out with your support system

512
00:29:25,360 --> 00:29:27,920
Speaker 2: so that you are not distracting the service member from

513
00:29:27,960 --> 00:29:30,640
Speaker 2: what they need to take care of. Sometimes in very

514
00:29:30,640 --> 00:29:33,800
Speaker 2: hostile environments and so a lot of times, I think

515
00:29:33,840 --> 00:29:35,520
Speaker 2: there's a need to get to the root of the

516
00:29:35,600 --> 00:29:38,280
Speaker 2: issue and not just spend a lot of time addressing

517
00:29:38,320 --> 00:29:42,320
Speaker 2: the surface level situational factors that may be coming up.

518
00:29:43,600 --> 00:29:46,360
Speaker 1: And Doctor Jackson, you also mentioned even in your personal

519
00:29:46,400 --> 00:29:49,400
Speaker 1: family around getting ready for deployment and what a big

520
00:29:49,440 --> 00:29:52,520
Speaker 1: deal that was. What kinds of suggestions or advice would

521
00:29:52,560 --> 00:29:55,160
Speaker 1: you give to a family who's maybe preparing for deployment.

522
00:29:55,600 --> 00:30:00,440
Speaker 2: Sure, I would recommend spending lots of time together finding

523
00:30:00,440 --> 00:30:03,719
Speaker 2: out what your strategy for communication will be a lot

524
00:30:03,800 --> 00:30:06,040
Speaker 2: of times you won't be able to nail down specific

525
00:30:06,120 --> 00:30:09,360
Speaker 2: days and times that you'll call, but identify what's really

526
00:30:09,440 --> 00:30:12,360
Speaker 2: important to you, what your service member needs while they're away,

527
00:30:12,800 --> 00:30:14,760
Speaker 2: and what you need to hear from them or have

528
00:30:14,880 --> 00:30:17,920
Speaker 2: from them while they're gone and when they return. So

529
00:30:18,000 --> 00:30:21,520
Speaker 2: spending lots of time together creating those milestones you have

530
00:30:21,640 --> 00:30:24,040
Speaker 2: young children. Build a bear is a wonderful thing where

531
00:30:24,080 --> 00:30:26,120
Speaker 2: you can go and record a story or a little

532
00:30:26,160 --> 00:30:29,200
Speaker 2: message so they can continue to hear your voice while

533
00:30:29,200 --> 00:30:32,560
Speaker 2: you're gone, but being mindful of the fact that they're

534
00:30:32,600 --> 00:30:36,960
Speaker 2: sacrificed on both ends and each partner validating what it's

535
00:30:37,000 --> 00:30:38,920
Speaker 2: going to take for you all to get through this

536
00:30:39,040 --> 00:30:43,160
Speaker 2: as a team, right, and understanding how you can best

537
00:30:43,200 --> 00:30:47,080
Speaker 2: support each other during the period of physical separation I

538
00:30:47,160 --> 00:30:49,000
Speaker 2: think would be really important.

539
00:30:49,480 --> 00:30:51,440
Speaker 1: And can you talk a little bit more about like

540
00:30:51,480 --> 00:30:54,680
Speaker 1: how you'd explain that to young children in particular, you know,

541
00:30:54,760 --> 00:30:56,920
Speaker 1: like this idea that maybe mom or dad is going

542
00:30:56,960 --> 00:30:59,960
Speaker 1: to be gone, and even feelings of like maybe losing

543
00:31:00,120 --> 00:31:02,320
Speaker 1: family members to the military that I think could come

544
00:31:02,400 --> 00:31:05,120
Speaker 1: up for either children or even adults. What kinds of

545
00:31:05,120 --> 00:31:06,320
Speaker 1: things would you say about that.

546
00:31:06,720 --> 00:31:10,640
Speaker 2: And preparing children. Sesame Street you sas some really great resources,

547
00:31:10,680 --> 00:31:13,120
Speaker 2: and I still think those are active resources to help

548
00:31:13,160 --> 00:31:15,960
Speaker 2: talk to young children about what deployment is and what

549
00:31:16,000 --> 00:31:21,400
Speaker 2: separation looks like. Giving them expectation that they're going away

550
00:31:21,440 --> 00:31:24,120
Speaker 2: for work and this is an exciting thing and they're

551
00:31:24,160 --> 00:31:26,840
Speaker 2: doing their job and we look forward to hearing from them.

552
00:31:27,200 --> 00:31:29,960
Speaker 2: Keeping it very age appropriate is going to be important.

553
00:31:30,040 --> 00:31:33,080
Speaker 2: They don't need to know all the risk that's involved.

554
00:31:33,080 --> 00:31:35,920
Speaker 2: They're not going to understand all the risk that is involved,

555
00:31:36,240 --> 00:31:38,240
Speaker 2: but you can explain it to them in age appropriate

556
00:31:38,280 --> 00:31:41,560
Speaker 2: ways and use materials from the library or Sesame Street

557
00:31:41,680 --> 00:31:45,400
Speaker 2: resources to help explain it to really young children with

558
00:31:45,760 --> 00:31:48,720
Speaker 2: older children. I think you have frank discussions like, look,

559
00:31:48,760 --> 00:31:51,160
Speaker 2: this is where we are. This is going to be

560
00:31:51,240 --> 00:31:54,040
Speaker 2: taxing for us, and it's quite a shift in our

561
00:31:54,080 --> 00:31:57,640
Speaker 2: family dynamic. So this is how as a family we're

562
00:31:57,640 --> 00:31:59,880
Speaker 2: going to navigate this process. And we want your act

563
00:32:00,080 --> 00:32:03,240
Speaker 2: of involvement. We want to understand how you feel about

564
00:32:03,240 --> 00:32:05,680
Speaker 2: what's going on and what you think about what's going on,

565
00:32:06,080 --> 00:32:07,520
Speaker 2: and we're going to hold space for the fact that

566
00:32:07,560 --> 00:32:10,360
Speaker 2: it's going to be frustrating sometimes that we're all going

567
00:32:10,440 --> 00:32:13,120
Speaker 2: to have some moments where this isn't the lifestyle we

568
00:32:13,280 --> 00:32:16,520
Speaker 2: necessarily want or the experience we want to be living through.

569
00:32:16,920 --> 00:32:19,360
Speaker 2: But how can we continue to focus together as a

570
00:32:19,360 --> 00:32:23,080
Speaker 2: family to get through the moment dealing with loss. I

571
00:32:23,120 --> 00:32:26,440
Speaker 2: don't think there's any easy way to explain that. I

572
00:32:26,480 --> 00:32:29,840
Speaker 2: think it's helpful if there has been loss to utilize

573
00:32:29,840 --> 00:32:33,840
Speaker 2: the resources within the military community. Always if there's a

574
00:32:33,840 --> 00:32:36,960
Speaker 2: death notification that needs to be made. A KEKO officer,

575
00:32:37,600 --> 00:32:40,240
Speaker 2: I can't remember what that acronym exactly stands for, but

576
00:32:40,280 --> 00:32:42,640
Speaker 2: a KEKO officer is going to show up at the door.

577
00:32:43,240 --> 00:32:46,000
Speaker 2: That's where you see the person come in a full

578
00:32:46,120 --> 00:32:49,120
Speaker 2: uniform and knocks on the door. And the service member

579
00:32:49,160 --> 00:32:52,480
Speaker 2: spouse knows exactly what's going on. That's a KEKO call

580
00:32:52,560 --> 00:32:55,320
Speaker 2: and those are really difficult to make. But those KKO

581
00:32:55,440 --> 00:32:58,479
Speaker 2: officers are the points of contact with the resources that

582
00:32:58,520 --> 00:33:03,000
Speaker 2: you need to connect due to the entire process and

583
00:33:03,120 --> 00:33:06,960
Speaker 2: provide support throughout that process. If a death notification has

584
00:33:07,000 --> 00:33:10,720
Speaker 2: been made, that can include what benefits are, how those

585
00:33:10,760 --> 00:33:15,120
Speaker 2: benefits are distributed, how a service is coordinated, and what

586
00:33:15,240 --> 00:33:18,600
Speaker 2: resources mental health wise are even available for you.

587
00:33:19,680 --> 00:33:33,400
Speaker 1: More from our conversation after the break, doctor Jackson, you

588
00:33:33,560 --> 00:33:36,320
Speaker 1: just brought up a very important and i'd imagine common

589
00:33:36,360 --> 00:33:39,400
Speaker 1: anxiety from military families, which is the death of a

590
00:33:39,440 --> 00:33:43,520
Speaker 1: military service member. Casey, as a military spouse, have you

591
00:33:43,560 --> 00:33:46,080
Speaker 1: ever been in a situation where you were unsure about

592
00:33:46,120 --> 00:33:47,040
Speaker 1: your partner's safety.

593
00:33:47,480 --> 00:33:51,200
Speaker 4: I can't remember if it was Afghanistan are Kuwait and

594
00:33:52,000 --> 00:33:55,760
Speaker 4: a base was bombed. This was back when there was

595
00:33:55,840 --> 00:34:00,080
Speaker 4: only Skype to communicate. There are no phone calls, there

596
00:34:00,120 --> 00:34:03,880
Speaker 4: were no FaceTime, and at that time you could watch

597
00:34:03,920 --> 00:34:07,440
Speaker 4: the news because they shut everything down. If the basis on,

598
00:34:07,800 --> 00:34:11,160
Speaker 4: everything is shut down. So there were so many times

599
00:34:11,239 --> 00:34:14,960
Speaker 4: those incidents happening where I'm just waiting on someone to

600
00:34:14,960 --> 00:34:17,960
Speaker 4: come knock at my door because there was no phone

601
00:34:17,960 --> 00:34:22,120
Speaker 4: call or text to say hey, I'm okay, everything is good.

602
00:34:22,200 --> 00:34:25,799
Speaker 4: You're watching your news to figure out whatever information they

603
00:34:25,840 --> 00:34:29,440
Speaker 4: can release, and you're waiting on someone to call you

604
00:34:29,600 --> 00:34:32,200
Speaker 4: or someone to knock on your door. And the knock

605
00:34:32,239 --> 00:34:34,000
Speaker 4: on the door, I mean your husband or your spouse

606
00:34:34,080 --> 00:34:36,799
Speaker 4: is no longer here. So there were so many of

607
00:34:36,840 --> 00:34:39,359
Speaker 4: those moments that surprised me because you don't know how

608
00:34:39,400 --> 00:34:43,920
Speaker 4: to prepare for it. There's no way to actually prepare

609
00:34:43,960 --> 00:34:46,760
Speaker 4: for that moment. So I had a few of those

610
00:34:46,800 --> 00:34:52,680
Speaker 4: moments that really my anxiety was so high.

611
00:34:53,120 --> 00:34:55,719
Speaker 1: Thank you for sharing that, Casey. I'm sure many of

612
00:34:55,719 --> 00:34:58,680
Speaker 1: our military Family listeners are listening and sharing that emotion

613
00:34:58,800 --> 00:35:02,600
Speaker 1: with you. To go back to the reintegration process you mentioned,

614
00:35:02,640 --> 00:35:06,080
Speaker 1: doctor Jackson, for those family members who are fortunate enough

615
00:35:06,080 --> 00:35:08,680
Speaker 1: to have their military member come back from a deployment,

616
00:35:09,160 --> 00:35:11,759
Speaker 1: what kinds of suggestions would you offer to family for

617
00:35:11,840 --> 00:35:14,759
Speaker 1: what life looks like while the person is deployed, and

618
00:35:14,800 --> 00:35:18,200
Speaker 1: then what is the process of even reintegrating them. What

619
00:35:18,239 --> 00:35:19,000
Speaker 1: does that look like?

620
00:35:19,400 --> 00:35:22,719
Speaker 2: Well, while they're gone, establish your routine, do what is

621
00:35:22,800 --> 00:35:27,160
Speaker 2: going to work for you. You are at home managing and

622
00:35:27,239 --> 00:35:29,680
Speaker 2: holding it down. So whatever process is going to be

623
00:35:29,760 --> 00:35:31,920
Speaker 2: useful to you, engage in that.

624
00:35:32,760 --> 00:35:35,600
Speaker 1: Okay, So I'm hearing that establishing a routine is key.

625
00:35:36,000 --> 00:35:39,160
Speaker 1: We talk about the importance of routines and prioritizing care

626
00:35:39,160 --> 00:35:41,759
Speaker 1: of yourself here on the podcast all the time. So

627
00:35:41,800 --> 00:35:46,160
Speaker 1: I can only imagine the benefited offers to military families. Casey,

628
00:35:46,280 --> 00:35:49,400
Speaker 1: from your experience, what sorts of routine self care practices

629
00:35:49,440 --> 00:35:51,839
Speaker 1: have been helpful for you to engage in while your

630
00:35:51,880 --> 00:35:52,680
Speaker 1: partner was away?

631
00:35:53,000 --> 00:35:58,439
Speaker 3: A lot of naps. I love to sleep, a lot

632
00:35:58,440 --> 00:35:59,960
Speaker 3: of naps, a lot of work.

633
00:36:00,400 --> 00:36:02,960
Speaker 4: I work out a lot, and that's something I still

634
00:36:03,000 --> 00:36:07,200
Speaker 4: do every morning, is taking time for myself. I'm a

635
00:36:07,239 --> 00:36:10,879
Speaker 4: big believer in taking time for myself before I take

636
00:36:10,960 --> 00:36:15,920
Speaker 4: care of everybody else. So I'm usually up at least

637
00:36:15,960 --> 00:36:20,800
Speaker 4: an hour or two before the kids, checking in with myself, reading,

638
00:36:21,360 --> 00:36:23,640
Speaker 4: if I have one more I need to cry, if

639
00:36:23,760 --> 00:36:27,040
Speaker 4: that Plenty of those moments you know, have those moments

640
00:36:27,040 --> 00:36:30,520
Speaker 4: and make sure I take care of myself through moving

641
00:36:30,560 --> 00:36:35,479
Speaker 4: my body. Are sometimes just being silent and writing, having

642
00:36:35,520 --> 00:36:39,640
Speaker 4: a cup of coffee and sitting outside and watching the

643
00:36:39,760 --> 00:36:42,319
Speaker 4: sun come up, or just having some moments like that.

644
00:36:42,800 --> 00:36:46,240
Speaker 4: To really just take care of my spirit and my energy.

645
00:36:46,400 --> 00:36:48,759
Speaker 4: Those are usually things that I find that works best

646
00:36:48,800 --> 00:36:49,040
Speaker 4: for me.

647
00:36:49,360 --> 00:36:51,399
Speaker 1: In casey, could you also talk a little bit about

648
00:36:51,400 --> 00:36:54,120
Speaker 1: your own experience managing your home while your husband was

649
00:36:54,120 --> 00:36:57,400
Speaker 1: deployed and then helping to reintegrate him back into the

650
00:36:57,440 --> 00:36:58,480
Speaker 1: home after deployment.

651
00:36:58,640 --> 00:37:01,279
Speaker 4: I can't say it's an easy thing to manage when

652
00:37:01,320 --> 00:37:05,920
Speaker 4: your spouse is gone for six months, eight months, ten months.

653
00:37:06,200 --> 00:37:09,480
Speaker 4: We just really do the best that we can. There's

654
00:37:09,480 --> 00:37:13,279
Speaker 4: been times where I just I don't work because I

655
00:37:13,360 --> 00:37:17,200
Speaker 4: want to fully be there. Because they know they have

656
00:37:17,239 --> 00:37:21,399
Speaker 4: two parents. One is inactive, so I have to do

657
00:37:21,400 --> 00:37:25,000
Speaker 4: double the work. So that may mean for me not

658
00:37:25,160 --> 00:37:28,360
Speaker 4: having a job outside of the home for a period

659
00:37:28,400 --> 00:37:32,280
Speaker 4: of times, I can be fully available for them throughout

660
00:37:32,320 --> 00:37:36,120
Speaker 4: the day. When he comes back, we are already in

661
00:37:36,200 --> 00:37:40,920
Speaker 4: such a routine without him that coming back for him

662
00:37:41,760 --> 00:37:42,680
Speaker 4: is okay.

663
00:37:42,719 --> 00:37:45,040
Speaker 3: So where do I fit in this family? That's a

664
00:37:45,120 --> 00:37:45,719
Speaker 3: real thing.

665
00:37:46,480 --> 00:37:48,920
Speaker 4: I notice it is my wife, I know, if it's

666
00:37:48,920 --> 00:37:51,960
Speaker 4: not my children, But where do I fit in?

667
00:37:52,920 --> 00:37:56,080
Speaker 3: It's almost like am I in your way? What do

668
00:37:56,120 --> 00:37:56,879
Speaker 3: you need me to do?

669
00:37:57,360 --> 00:38:02,320
Speaker 4: So for him, it's been many times observing or asking questions,

670
00:38:02,960 --> 00:38:04,640
Speaker 4: what does this kid like to do now?

671
00:38:05,239 --> 00:38:08,840
Speaker 3: Has their favorite food? Change, has their favorite color? Change?

672
00:38:09,239 --> 00:38:13,800
Speaker 4: Who's their teacher? Which classroom is theirs? What's their temperament now?

673
00:38:14,239 --> 00:38:18,319
Speaker 4: And even for the kids being okay with going to

674
00:38:18,360 --> 00:38:21,560
Speaker 4: ask daddy a question, because I've been talking to mommy

675
00:38:21,600 --> 00:38:24,719
Speaker 4: so much for six months, asking her for everything, So

676
00:38:24,800 --> 00:38:30,440
Speaker 4: it can be that bypass, Daddy come to mommy and

677
00:38:30,520 --> 00:38:33,120
Speaker 4: that parent or that soldier may see it as a

678
00:38:33,160 --> 00:38:36,760
Speaker 4: disrespectful thing, but we're so used to you not being here,

679
00:38:37,320 --> 00:38:40,520
Speaker 4: so being gone for six months. After about two to

680
00:38:40,600 --> 00:38:43,919
Speaker 4: three months, we're in the new groove, and then when

681
00:38:43,920 --> 00:38:48,279
Speaker 4: the soldier comes back, it takes maybe another two to

682
00:38:48,440 --> 00:38:55,240
Speaker 4: three months to reshuffle this thing all over again to

683
00:38:55,280 --> 00:38:56,399
Speaker 4: reintegrate him.

684
00:38:56,760 --> 00:38:58,600
Speaker 3: It's very it's very tasking.

685
00:38:58,680 --> 00:39:00,799
Speaker 1: I' musa say, doctor Jackson, and are there any other

686
00:39:00,840 --> 00:39:04,000
Speaker 1: strategies you'd recommend for helping us spouse reintegrate after time

687
00:39:04,080 --> 00:39:05,040
Speaker 1: spin away from home.

688
00:39:05,280 --> 00:39:07,680
Speaker 2: Once you get that notification that your loved one is

689
00:39:07,680 --> 00:39:10,520
Speaker 2: coming home and you start preparing, it's not all just

690
00:39:10,560 --> 00:39:14,279
Speaker 2: about the party, right, Understand what they need? How do

691
00:39:14,360 --> 00:39:16,960
Speaker 2: we celebrate your return and how do we give you

692
00:39:17,000 --> 00:39:20,960
Speaker 2: space to process and reacclimate? Oftentimes on the heels of

693
00:39:21,000 --> 00:39:24,359
Speaker 2: a deployment. Service member has some leave time, may want

694
00:39:24,400 --> 00:39:26,600
Speaker 2: to take a vacation, They may just want to be

695
00:39:26,640 --> 00:39:30,600
Speaker 2: at home. They may be coming back with very little

696
00:39:30,600 --> 00:39:34,799
Speaker 2: insight about how their experiences have really impacted them, and

697
00:39:34,840 --> 00:39:39,200
Speaker 2: there may be a delayed onset of what those experiences maybe,

698
00:39:39,280 --> 00:39:43,880
Speaker 2: whether that's trauma or depression or anxiety. Making space for

699
00:39:43,960 --> 00:39:47,600
Speaker 2: them to be able to feel and reconnect is going

700
00:39:47,680 --> 00:39:52,080
Speaker 2: to be really important. Try not to overstimulate or overschedule.

701
00:39:52,560 --> 00:39:54,759
Speaker 2: Get a lot of buy in from that service member

702
00:39:54,920 --> 00:39:57,319
Speaker 2: about what it is that they want to be able

703
00:39:57,360 --> 00:40:01,680
Speaker 2: to do when they do return home, into them this

704
00:40:01,760 --> 00:40:04,759
Speaker 2: is what we've been doing since youve been on Our

705
00:40:04,880 --> 00:40:07,279
Speaker 2: seventeen year old is doing this, and our five year

706
00:40:07,320 --> 00:40:09,160
Speaker 2: old is doing that, and these are some of the

707
00:40:09,200 --> 00:40:13,160
Speaker 2: milestones that have occurred while you've been away. And I'm

708
00:40:13,160 --> 00:40:16,520
Speaker 2: wanting to loop you into how we've been doing things.

709
00:40:16,640 --> 00:40:19,719
Speaker 2: And once you get back and you've decompressed a little bit,

710
00:40:20,120 --> 00:40:23,920
Speaker 2: let's have a family discussion about how we renegotiate the

711
00:40:24,040 --> 00:40:27,560
Speaker 2: roles and how we discuss the current expectations so that

712
00:40:27,680 --> 00:40:31,080
Speaker 2: we're moving into a space where there's frequent communication. I've

713
00:40:31,120 --> 00:40:33,879
Speaker 2: heard a lot of complaints from military spouses and even

714
00:40:33,880 --> 00:40:37,680
Speaker 2: military children that they're like, my service member parent treats

715
00:40:37,760 --> 00:40:40,880
Speaker 2: me like I'm one of their sailors, soldiers or airmen,

716
00:40:41,080 --> 00:40:43,919
Speaker 2: and I'm not right. It's kind of easy to fall

717
00:40:43,960 --> 00:40:47,279
Speaker 2: into that with the default way that we communicate military.

718
00:40:47,400 --> 00:40:50,160
Speaker 2: If you're in a position of leadership, you say something

719
00:40:50,200 --> 00:40:52,320
Speaker 2: and it gets done. You don't have to repeat yourself

720
00:40:52,360 --> 00:40:56,879
Speaker 2: often and then happen in homes you have to get

721
00:40:56,880 --> 00:41:00,880
Speaker 2: comfortable with repeating yourself and so communication is so key

722
00:41:01,400 --> 00:41:05,080
Speaker 2: and involving each other in an understanding of what's needed,

723
00:41:05,520 --> 00:41:08,319
Speaker 2: what the routine has been, and how we're preparing for

724
00:41:08,360 --> 00:41:10,920
Speaker 2: a shift. I think it's a recipe for success.

725
00:41:11,160 --> 00:41:12,160
Speaker 3: Mmm mm hmm.

726
00:41:12,520 --> 00:41:15,160
Speaker 1: So, doctor Jackson, you mentioned that some service members it

727
00:41:15,200 --> 00:41:18,399
Speaker 1: might come back with some trauma they've experienced, or even

728
00:41:18,520 --> 00:41:21,759
Speaker 1: have an onset of depression or anxiety. What kinds of

729
00:41:21,800 --> 00:41:24,000
Speaker 1: things should a partner or a spouse know about how

730
00:41:24,040 --> 00:41:26,520
Speaker 1: to support a service member who's coming back home and

731
00:41:26,600 --> 00:41:28,480
Speaker 1: maybe experiencing some of these changes.

732
00:41:28,680 --> 00:41:31,960
Speaker 2: Keep an eye out for what has changed, what looks different,

733
00:41:32,800 --> 00:41:36,399
Speaker 2: Remind the service member of what their available options are,

734
00:41:37,080 --> 00:41:40,279
Speaker 2: but be compassionate with the fact that there's a lot

735
00:41:40,280 --> 00:41:44,120
Speaker 2: of stigma in the military around mental health still because

736
00:41:44,480 --> 00:41:49,640
Speaker 2: the worldwide deployable component and fitness for duty is still

737
00:41:49,719 --> 00:41:54,000
Speaker 2: a huge piece of every service member's career, and some

738
00:41:54,520 --> 00:41:57,640
Speaker 2: people believe that as soon as I walk into behavioral

739
00:41:57,680 --> 00:41:59,279
Speaker 2: health or as soon as I sit down with the

740
00:41:59,320 --> 00:42:03,040
Speaker 2: psych that disposition is going to be changed, and that's

741
00:42:03,080 --> 00:42:05,880
Speaker 2: going to have a negative impact on my career. And

742
00:42:06,120 --> 00:42:08,839
Speaker 2: to be quite frank sometimes for some people it might

743
00:42:09,000 --> 00:42:12,799
Speaker 2: depending on what it is that you do, unfortunately, and

744
00:42:12,840 --> 00:42:16,760
Speaker 2: there may be some resistance to that because they're thinking

745
00:42:16,800 --> 00:42:21,239
Speaker 2: about the time invested, the identity that they've developed by

746
00:42:21,239 --> 00:42:25,120
Speaker 2: putting that uniform on every single day. So be compassionate,

747
00:42:25,560 --> 00:42:29,000
Speaker 2: but notice what the changes are, right, offer them support

748
00:42:29,080 --> 00:42:32,400
Speaker 2: and remind them of what the resources are. And sometimes

749
00:42:32,400 --> 00:42:34,879
Speaker 2: it's helpful to even say, but you know what, love,

750
00:42:35,400 --> 00:42:38,400
Speaker 2: at some point, you're going to retire from this military system,

751
00:42:38,800 --> 00:42:40,359
Speaker 2: and at some point they're going to want to know

752
00:42:40,600 --> 00:42:43,960
Speaker 2: everything that's been going on with you in terms of

753
00:42:44,000 --> 00:42:46,480
Speaker 2: your health and your well being. And this is an

754
00:42:46,480 --> 00:42:49,399
Speaker 2: important thing for them to know because your country has

755
00:42:49,440 --> 00:42:51,840
Speaker 2: made a commitment to you to take care of you

756
00:42:52,440 --> 00:42:55,040
Speaker 2: because of the service that you've offered. So let them

757
00:42:55,120 --> 00:42:57,600
Speaker 2: take care of you, whether it's in the now or

758
00:42:57,640 --> 00:42:59,560
Speaker 2: in the future. And the only way we're going to

759
00:42:59,600 --> 00:43:01,600
Speaker 2: be able to do that is to talk to somebody

760
00:43:01,600 --> 00:43:05,480
Speaker 2: about what's going on. A really helpful resource, again, can

761
00:43:05,520 --> 00:43:11,120
Speaker 2: be the chaplains. They have confidentiality that is similar to

762
00:43:11,160 --> 00:43:15,279
Speaker 2: behavioral health confidentiality, sometimes even a little bit better, and

763
00:43:15,320 --> 00:43:18,280
Speaker 2: so from that standpoint, they can be a first line

764
00:43:18,280 --> 00:43:22,120
Speaker 2: of support where a diagnosis may not need to be established,

765
00:43:22,120 --> 00:43:25,200
Speaker 2: but support needs to be offered. Chaplains can be a

766
00:43:25,200 --> 00:43:29,440
Speaker 2: really great resource for that. Fleet and Family services for

767
00:43:29,560 --> 00:43:33,000
Speaker 2: the Navy and Marine Corps can also be a great resource.

768
00:43:33,640 --> 00:43:35,719
Speaker 2: If there's no diagnosis to be had, you can be

769
00:43:35,760 --> 00:43:39,200
Speaker 2: seen at Fleet and Family or the same thing within

770
00:43:39,400 --> 00:43:46,600
Speaker 2: the Army is called Military Family Life Counseling is INFLECT

771
00:43:46,680 --> 00:43:49,200
Speaker 2: for the Army and for the Air Force, their support

772
00:43:49,320 --> 00:43:53,000
Speaker 2: is Military Family Readiness System and sometimes that can be

773
00:43:53,040 --> 00:43:56,000
Speaker 2: a place where service members can get support without a

774
00:43:56,080 --> 00:44:01,279
Speaker 2: diagnosis before approaching behavioral health. Reduces a little bit of

775
00:44:01,280 --> 00:44:05,239
Speaker 2: that concern or fear about walking into the behavioral health system,

776
00:44:05,600 --> 00:44:08,160
Speaker 2: and that can be a way to disarm your service member,

777
00:44:08,160 --> 00:44:10,920
Speaker 2: but say hey, we need some support here. Those can

778
00:44:10,960 --> 00:44:15,359
Speaker 2: be alternative options of support. But being mindful of what

779
00:44:15,400 --> 00:44:19,719
Speaker 2: depression looks like, what anxiety looks like, not assuming that

780
00:44:19,840 --> 00:44:23,879
Speaker 2: everybody who's been exposed to trauma is going to develop PTSD,

781
00:44:24,520 --> 00:44:27,600
Speaker 2: but understanding what some of those signs are is really

782
00:44:27,600 --> 00:44:31,200
Speaker 2: helpful as well. And then one thing that I think

783
00:44:32,239 --> 00:44:35,880
Speaker 2: doesn't get enough attention is looking at the relationship that

784
00:44:35,960 --> 00:44:39,279
Speaker 2: your service member might have with substances. Rarely are we

785
00:44:39,320 --> 00:44:42,040
Speaker 2: going to see service members using illicit substances because of

786
00:44:42,080 --> 00:44:46,120
Speaker 2: the consequences of that. But alcohol can be part of

787
00:44:46,160 --> 00:44:49,880
Speaker 2: what military culture looks like, and it's harder sometimes to

788
00:44:49,920 --> 00:44:52,200
Speaker 2: identify when we've moved from a space of this is

789
00:44:52,200 --> 00:44:56,160
Speaker 2: what military culture looks like into excess and problematic relationship

790
00:44:56,200 --> 00:45:00,560
Speaker 2: with alcohol. So being mindful of mood changes, sleeping changes,

791
00:45:01,080 --> 00:45:04,400
Speaker 2: changes in the way that they're interacting with their loved ones,

792
00:45:04,520 --> 00:45:09,920
Speaker 2: with their colleagues, with their supervisors, substance use, all of

793
00:45:09,960 --> 00:45:11,560
Speaker 2: those things are things to be mindful of.

794
00:45:11,640 --> 00:45:14,160
Speaker 1: I think doctor Jackson, you've talked a little bit about

795
00:45:14,200 --> 00:45:17,600
Speaker 1: military deployment readiness. Can you explain what that means to

796
00:45:17,640 --> 00:45:19,120
Speaker 1: our listeners who might be unaware.

797
00:45:19,680 --> 00:45:23,400
Speaker 2: So it's fitness for duty and that relates to one's

798
00:45:24,000 --> 00:45:27,960
Speaker 2: ability to, at the drop of a time, be worldwide deployable,

799
00:45:28,480 --> 00:45:32,919
Speaker 2: and it is a military psychologist, social worker, whatever level

800
00:45:32,920 --> 00:45:36,799
Speaker 2: of behavioral health treatment you're at in for active duty personnel,

801
00:45:37,040 --> 00:45:41,680
Speaker 2: it's imperative that you're considering that disposition at all times

802
00:45:41,760 --> 00:45:45,000
Speaker 2: because we have to maintain a fighting force that's ready

803
00:45:45,000 --> 00:45:46,880
Speaker 2: to go when we need them to write, if the

804
00:45:46,880 --> 00:45:50,919
Speaker 2: balloon goes up, how many people can this particular unit

805
00:45:51,000 --> 00:45:53,560
Speaker 2: send off on that given day that they're assigned to,

806
00:45:54,160 --> 00:45:56,879
Speaker 2: And so we have to be mindful of what diagnoses

807
00:45:56,920 --> 00:46:01,880
Speaker 2: can't be treated in a deployed setting, things like bipolar disorder.

808
00:46:02,560 --> 00:46:05,160
Speaker 2: Of course, serious mental illness is not something that could

809
00:46:05,160 --> 00:46:10,040
Speaker 2: be treated in a worldwide deployable kind of status. Sometimes anxiety,

810
00:46:10,440 --> 00:46:13,160
Speaker 2: any sort of medication use, those kinds of things might

811
00:46:13,239 --> 00:46:18,000
Speaker 2: impact someone's ability to be able to deploy. And because

812
00:46:18,160 --> 00:46:22,319
Speaker 2: every service member is a soldier, sailor airmen first, we

813
00:46:22,560 --> 00:46:26,080
Speaker 2: have to always maintain that fitness for duty and readiness

814
00:46:26,160 --> 00:46:26,360
Speaker 2: to go.

815
00:46:26,760 --> 00:46:29,200
Speaker 1: So if you're not able to maintain that status, then

816
00:46:29,239 --> 00:46:30,640
Speaker 1: your status becomes what.

817
00:46:30,920 --> 00:46:33,640
Speaker 2: There are options there. So if you're not able to

818
00:46:34,200 --> 00:46:37,520
Speaker 2: go when the balloon goes up, there are options they're

819
00:46:37,560 --> 00:46:40,840
Speaker 2: called different things for different branches of service, but essentially

820
00:46:41,400 --> 00:46:45,080
Speaker 2: it is limited duty. So for a little while, we're

821
00:46:45,080 --> 00:46:48,359
Speaker 2: going to say maybe six months, you're not able to

822
00:46:48,400 --> 00:46:50,480
Speaker 2: do your job and we need to focus on treatment.

823
00:46:50,560 --> 00:46:52,520
Speaker 2: So we might offer you what we would see in

824
00:46:52,520 --> 00:46:57,600
Speaker 2: the civilian world to be reasonable accommodations, change in work schedule,

825
00:46:57,840 --> 00:47:00,920
Speaker 2: change and shift, ability to leave early in order to

826
00:47:00,920 --> 00:47:05,200
Speaker 2: attend behavioral health appointments, maybe some time off work altogether

827
00:47:05,360 --> 00:47:09,040
Speaker 2: to pursue a higher level of care like intensive outpatient

828
00:47:09,120 --> 00:47:14,080
Speaker 2: therapy or partial hospitalization. Those put some restrictions on the

829
00:47:14,120 --> 00:47:18,600
Speaker 2: ability for a military component or a unit to be

830
00:47:18,640 --> 00:47:22,880
Speaker 2: able to move that person or send them off very quickly.

831
00:47:23,320 --> 00:47:26,120
Speaker 2: So it affects the needs of the Navy, and it's

832
00:47:26,160 --> 00:47:30,080
Speaker 2: important for active duty clinicians. They all know that it's

833
00:47:30,080 --> 00:47:32,359
Speaker 2: important for them to be able to understand and make

834
00:47:32,400 --> 00:47:35,880
Speaker 2: those dispositions appropriately so that the units are able to

835
00:47:35,920 --> 00:47:38,280
Speaker 2: do what they need to do or get more people

836
00:47:38,840 --> 00:47:43,280
Speaker 2: without there being a specific personnel challenge or maning challenge.

837
00:47:43,640 --> 00:47:46,000
Speaker 1: So as a military psychologist, a part of what you're

838
00:47:46,000 --> 00:47:48,239
Speaker 1: doing as a part of your care is assessing for

839
00:47:48,320 --> 00:47:49,320
Speaker 1: this fitness for duty.

840
00:47:49,640 --> 00:47:51,480
Speaker 2: Absolutely, now I want to be clear I'm no longer

841
00:47:51,560 --> 00:47:55,680
Speaker 2: a military psychologist. Yes, they'd be like, who is this

842
00:47:55,760 --> 00:47:58,000
Speaker 2: and why does she not get clearings from the public

843
00:47:58,040 --> 00:48:03,919
Speaker 2: affairs officer. I'm a former military psychologists and yes, absolutely,

844
00:48:03,960 --> 00:48:07,400
Speaker 2: it's at the forefront of most clinicians' minds. That's something

845
00:48:07,400 --> 00:48:08,600
Speaker 2: they need to be mindful of.

846
00:48:09,080 --> 00:48:11,440
Speaker 1: Got it. Both of you have already given us a

847
00:48:11,440 --> 00:48:13,560
Speaker 1: ton of resources, But are there any others that you

848
00:48:13,600 --> 00:48:16,440
Speaker 1: think somebody who's enjoying our conversation might benefit from.

849
00:48:16,600 --> 00:48:21,279
Speaker 2: Military one Source is a really great resource. It's one

850
00:48:21,320 --> 00:48:25,319
Speaker 2: that's widely known often amongst military communities because they have

851
00:48:25,760 --> 00:48:29,360
Speaker 2: a wide range of benefits to address the specific needs,

852
00:48:29,440 --> 00:48:35,240
Speaker 2: whether it's financial stressors, couples counseling, individual counseling that's needed.

853
00:48:35,600 --> 00:48:40,839
Speaker 2: We talked about the component specific or service specific family resources.

854
00:48:41,320 --> 00:48:44,839
Speaker 2: Military one Source is a broad umbrella that will take

855
00:48:45,000 --> 00:48:49,120
Speaker 2: any service member from any branch, veterans, or their family

856
00:48:49,160 --> 00:48:52,439
Speaker 2: members to provide them with access to some of these resources.

857
00:48:53,040 --> 00:48:57,359
Speaker 2: And as far as I'm aware, with military resource, you're

858
00:48:57,440 --> 00:49:02,200
Speaker 2: able to have some complementary session for individual therapy. You

859
00:49:02,280 --> 00:49:04,400
Speaker 2: do have to go through a process of applying for

860
00:49:04,440 --> 00:49:07,880
Speaker 2: those benefits and finding an in network counselor and things

861
00:49:07,960 --> 00:49:11,080
Speaker 2: like that, But those sessions don't get charged to you

862
00:49:11,600 --> 00:49:13,719
Speaker 2: for a certain number, and you'd have to speak with

863
00:49:13,760 --> 00:49:18,000
Speaker 2: a military one source representative to identify exactly how many

864
00:49:18,000 --> 00:49:21,600
Speaker 2: of those sessions you would receive without out of pocket

865
00:49:21,640 --> 00:49:24,479
Speaker 2: costs to you. But that's a really great resource as well.

866
00:49:25,080 --> 00:49:27,640
Speaker 1: Perfect We'll be sure to include that and all the

867
00:49:27,680 --> 00:49:30,520
Speaker 1: other resources that you mentioned in our show notes. We

868
00:49:30,560 --> 00:49:33,600
Speaker 1: could keep this conversation going on, I'm sure much longer,

869
00:49:33,880 --> 00:49:36,040
Speaker 1: but to close us out, could you both let our

870
00:49:36,080 --> 00:49:37,719
Speaker 1: community know where we can find you.

871
00:49:38,040 --> 00:49:44,359
Speaker 4: My website is Dkseking dot com and I am on Instagram, TikTok,

872
00:49:44,680 --> 00:49:49,160
Speaker 4: Kcsking across the board, Facebook, all across the board kcs King.

873
00:49:49,440 --> 00:49:55,120
Speaker 2: Our website is Epiphany Psychotherapy dot com and I can

874
00:49:55,160 --> 00:49:59,920
Speaker 2: be found on Instagram at doctor period D Jackson.

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00:50:00,719 --> 00:50:03,360
Speaker 1: In casey, I know you've recently released your book The

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00:50:03,400 --> 00:50:07,040
Speaker 1: Life of a Military Spouse. Your dreams matter too. How

877
00:50:07,040 --> 00:50:09,120
Speaker 1: would you like for folks to engage with this body

878
00:50:09,120 --> 00:50:09,560
Speaker 1: of work.

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00:50:09,640 --> 00:50:12,600
Speaker 4: I would really like you to go out and purchase

880
00:50:12,680 --> 00:50:17,120
Speaker 4: and just support the book because I believe this book

881
00:50:17,160 --> 00:50:20,840
Speaker 4: would be a great help to so many military spouses

882
00:50:20,880 --> 00:50:23,760
Speaker 4: who've thought about giving up who are at the point

883
00:50:23,840 --> 00:50:25,680
Speaker 4: in their life they said, you know what, I'll just

884
00:50:25,760 --> 00:50:29,719
Speaker 4: do nothing. My dreams don't matter. I don't know a

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00:50:29,760 --> 00:50:32,320
Speaker 4: spouse that has been told and maybe there are many

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00:50:32,880 --> 00:50:35,040
Speaker 4: that have been told, Hey, make sure you take care

887
00:50:35,080 --> 00:50:39,000
Speaker 4: of yourself. Whatever your goals are, you can achieve those

888
00:50:39,040 --> 00:50:43,120
Speaker 4: goals as well. You're more than just a military spouse.

889
00:50:43,719 --> 00:50:48,880
Speaker 4: You're more than just your children's mom or dad. You

890
00:50:49,040 --> 00:50:53,279
Speaker 4: have goals, you have dreams, and those do matter too,

891
00:50:53,840 --> 00:50:56,400
Speaker 4: and they don't always have to be on the back burner.

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00:50:56,440 --> 00:50:59,840
Speaker 3: There's a way that you can achieve those things you desire.

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00:51:00,480 --> 00:51:03,480
Speaker 1: Will said, well, thank you both so much for joining

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00:51:03,480 --> 00:51:06,000
Speaker 1: me today. We've been wanting to have this conversation for

895
00:51:06,040 --> 00:51:07,960
Speaker 1: a while, so I'm so glad that we were able

896
00:51:08,000 --> 00:51:13,280
Speaker 1: to talk with both of you. I'm so glad doctor

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00:51:13,360 --> 00:51:16,000
Speaker 1: Jackson and Casey were able to share their expertise and

898
00:51:16,040 --> 00:51:18,960
Speaker 1: experience with us today. To learn more about them and

899
00:51:19,000 --> 00:51:22,200
Speaker 1: their work, visit the show notes at Therapy for Blackgirls

900
00:51:22,200 --> 00:51:25,760
Speaker 1: dot com slash Session three twenty four, and don't forget

901
00:51:25,760 --> 00:51:28,320
Speaker 1: to text two of your girls right now and encourage

902
00:51:28,360 --> 00:51:31,319
Speaker 1: them to check out the episode. If you're looking for

903
00:51:31,360 --> 00:51:34,680
Speaker 1: a therapist in your area. Check out our therapist directory

904
00:51:34,760 --> 00:51:38,600
Speaker 1: at Therapy for Blackgirls dot com slash directory and if

905
00:51:38,640 --> 00:51:41,120
Speaker 1: you want to continue digging into this topic or just

906
00:51:41,160 --> 00:51:44,080
Speaker 1: be in community with other sisters, come on over and

907
00:51:44,160 --> 00:51:47,040
Speaker 1: join us in the Sister Circle. It's our cozy corner

908
00:51:47,040 --> 00:51:49,920
Speaker 1: of the Internet designed just for black women. You can

909
00:51:50,000 --> 00:51:53,360
Speaker 1: join us at community dot Therapy for Blackgirls dot com.

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00:51:53,520 --> 00:51:57,000
Speaker 1: This episode was produced by Frida Lucas, Elise Ellis, and

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00:51:57,120 --> 00:52:01,120
Speaker 1: Zaria Taylor. Editing was done by Dennis and Brad. Thank

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00:52:01,200 --> 00:52:03,759
Speaker 1: y'all so much for joining me again this week. I

913
00:52:03,840 --> 00:52:07,239
Speaker 1: look forward to continuing this conversation with you all real soon.

914
00:52:07,719 --> 00:52:15,280
Speaker 1: Take good care which friend are you and your sister circle?

915
00:52:15,719 --> 00:52:19,720
Speaker 1: Are you the wallflower, the peacemaker, the firecracker or the leader?

916
00:52:20,040 --> 00:52:23,279
Speaker 1: Take the quiz at Sisterhoodheels dot com slash quiz to

917
00:52:23,400 --> 00:52:25,760
Speaker 1: find out, and then make sure to grab your copy

918
00:52:25,760 --> 00:52:28,360
Speaker 1: of Sisterhood Heels to find out more about how you

919
00:52:28,440 --> 00:52:30,839
Speaker 1: can be a better friend and how your circle can

920
00:52:30,880 --> 00:52:33,720
Speaker 1: do a better job of supporting you. Order yours today

921
00:52:33,920 --> 00:52:38,000
Speaker 1: at sisterhood Heels dot com.