WEBVTT - Using Data to Create a Safe Back-to-School Plan 0:00:00.720 --> 0:00:03.720 This is Bloomberg Business Week. I'm Carol Masser and I'm 0:00:03.800 --> 0:00:06.320 Jason Kelly. We're right here every day bringing you the 0:00:06.400 --> 0:00:11.160 latest news from the world's of business and finance, plus technology, politics, economics, 0:00:11.240 --> 0:00:14.280 all harnessing the power of Business Week reporters and editors, 0:00:14.440 --> 0:00:16.439 and of course Carol that's part of a team of 0:00:16.520 --> 0:00:20.439 twenty seven hundred journalists and analysts more than a hundred 0:00:20.480 --> 0:00:23.280 and twenty countries and Jason. You can download Bloomberg Business 0:00:23.280 --> 0:00:26.239 Week on iTunes, SoundCloud, bl Bloomberg dot com. You can 0:00:26.280 --> 0:00:28.640 also listen to our radio show at two pm Eastern 0:00:28.680 --> 0:00:31.560 on Bloomberg Radio every weekday, or watch us on YouTube 0:00:31.600 --> 0:00:37.200 by searching Bloomberg Global News. Well, another week of so 0:00:37.479 --> 0:00:41.879 many headlines related to the virus. It is such a 0:00:41.880 --> 0:00:45.200 pleasure as always to catch up with Dr Ian les Bader, 0:00:45.640 --> 0:00:49.320 our soothsayer, our truth teller, our guy who really helps 0:00:49.360 --> 0:00:52.440 us understand where we're going and where we are, Clinical 0:00:52.479 --> 0:00:55.480 Associate Professor of Medicine at n y us Lango Medical Center. 0:00:55.560 --> 0:00:58.040 He joins us on the phone from New York City. Ian, 0:00:58.080 --> 0:01:01.760 how are you hi? H Happy Friday, hugsum. I hope 0:01:01.800 --> 0:01:05.400 everyone is doing well. We are so far thriving, but 0:01:05.520 --> 0:01:09.040 seeing lots of patients and UH and seeing some longhaulers 0:01:09.120 --> 0:01:12.319 and some COVID patients as well, So UH, we are 0:01:12.440 --> 0:01:16.040 not out of the woods. Just so let's talk about that. 0:01:16.080 --> 0:01:20.160 I mean, what is the reality check for this area 0:01:20.360 --> 0:01:23.880 that we all live in, specifically the New York City 0:01:23.880 --> 0:01:26.520 area I'm talking about, Like, where are we right now? 0:01:26.560 --> 0:01:30.720 We see hot spots reported, but you you are quite 0:01:30.760 --> 0:01:33.640 literally in on the front lines. Tell me more about 0:01:33.640 --> 0:01:38.360 what you're seeing. So you know, we're definitely seeing UH 0:01:38.480 --> 0:01:41.440 in increase in cases. And I think whenever you see 0:01:41.760 --> 0:01:46.600 hot spots, you know, the danger is that extending into 0:01:46.640 --> 0:01:50.760 other areas of the community. We're certainly seeing in the 0:01:50.800 --> 0:01:53.920 Midwest as well, not just in New York City some 0:01:54.000 --> 0:01:57.240 hot spots, but throughout the country. So I think until 0:01:57.320 --> 0:01:59.960 we are all able to get a prevented amount of 0:02:00.040 --> 0:02:05.520 US and UH, or until monoclonal antibody and fusions are 0:02:05.560 --> 0:02:09.040 widely available, we really have to resort to the old 0:02:09.080 --> 0:02:13.640 traditional UH infectious disease controls of you know, mass scoring, 0:02:13.680 --> 0:02:18.280 even though we know that's not acent effective and social distancing. 0:02:18.960 --> 0:02:22.720 And last week we talked about some in the in 0:02:22.760 --> 0:02:27.760 the more religious community, and it is important that everyone follow, 0:02:28.080 --> 0:02:32.119 you know, follow the guidelines. There is no uh problem, 0:02:32.160 --> 0:02:38.760 there's no um conflict between religion and spirituality and good 0:02:38.880 --> 0:02:43.680 good health and science or religions really emphasize healthy behavior 0:02:43.840 --> 0:02:46.720 and and uh this is just part of that for 0:02:46.760 --> 0:02:49.919 the time being. So there should be no conflict with 0:02:50.080 --> 0:02:53.680 being observant in in the way you feel as appropriate 0:02:53.800 --> 0:02:58.560 and also doing um good behavior for the community. Right. 0:02:58.600 --> 0:03:00.560 I mean, I feel like that's been one and theme 0:03:01.160 --> 0:03:04.200 um in that we've talked about. You know, it's it's 0:03:04.240 --> 0:03:06.160 the whole virus is all about a sense of community. 0:03:06.320 --> 0:03:08.760 It's protecting others. I mean, you want to protect yourself, 0:03:08.760 --> 0:03:10.520 of course, but you really have to think about that's 0:03:10.520 --> 0:03:15.440 what mask wearing is ultimately about. When you look at 0:03:15.720 --> 0:03:18.040 what's going on around the country. I think I was 0:03:18.120 --> 0:03:21.680 kind of thrown when I was watching some some programs, 0:03:21.720 --> 0:03:23.320 some news programs, and they were showing a map of 0:03:23.320 --> 0:03:25.680 the country and showing where we're seeing increases in cases, 0:03:25.720 --> 0:03:29.600 and it was almost blanketed across the country. So is 0:03:29.680 --> 0:03:31.839 this kind of the second wave that we've all been 0:03:31.880 --> 0:03:35.560 talking about. Is this the beginning of it? Yes? I 0:03:35.560 --> 0:03:39.200 think that is the case. You know, we certainly saw 0:03:39.280 --> 0:03:41.600 a drop in the number of cases. And really around 0:03:41.600 --> 0:03:45.600 the world we're seeing, you know, the second waves. And unfortunately, 0:03:45.640 --> 0:03:48.800 if you look at even back to nine eighteen the 0:03:48.840 --> 0:03:52.520 Spanish flu, you know, these viral infections do come in waves, 0:03:52.560 --> 0:03:56.160 they do mutate a bit. UH. People do develop some 0:03:56.720 --> 0:04:00.440 slowly but surely her herd immunity. UH. And again, the 0:04:00.480 --> 0:04:03.200 idea is to kind of flatten the curve. You know, 0:04:03.440 --> 0:04:06.840 no one ever said we're going to completely stop cases. 0:04:07.840 --> 0:04:12.080 But if you're able to decrease hospital surging by wearing 0:04:12.160 --> 0:04:16.960 mouks and um, you know, using prudent behavior, that will 0:04:17.040 --> 0:04:19.640 kind of protect the health care systems so that people 0:04:19.640 --> 0:04:22.800 who need ventilators or people who are sicker can be 0:04:22.920 --> 0:04:26.800 admitted and there's you know, more reserve in the system. 0:04:26.880 --> 0:04:28.800 So I think we are seeing the second wave. We're 0:04:28.800 --> 0:04:32.200 seeing it really around the world. It's this has happened 0:04:32.200 --> 0:04:36.599 in prior pandemics UM, and I think we have to continue, 0:04:37.040 --> 0:04:41.800 certainly to be prudent. So Ian, I have a feeling 0:04:41.800 --> 0:04:43.360 that you've been getting a lot of phone calls and 0:04:43.400 --> 0:04:48.840 text and emails from friends, family, patients about everything we've 0:04:48.839 --> 0:04:50.919 seen over the last week or so, especially with the 0:04:50.920 --> 0:04:55.000 treatment of the president around various drugs. We count on 0:04:55.040 --> 0:04:56.839 you to separate the signal from the noise. What do 0:04:56.880 --> 0:04:58.800 we need to know about what we've learned, especially in 0:04:58.880 --> 0:05:03.000 terms of therapeutics over the last few days. So not 0:05:03.120 --> 0:05:06.680 everyone gets the same treatment as as the president, but 0:05:06.800 --> 0:05:09.800 I think he had a very aggressive regiment and I 0:05:09.839 --> 0:05:13.840 think actually a very smart regiment. Um it's certainly something 0:05:13.839 --> 0:05:17.840 that it would be great to offer many patients. And 0:05:17.920 --> 0:05:20.880 really all of these medications work in different ways, just 0:05:21.000 --> 0:05:24.840 like we do HIV cocktails are hepathetis sea cocktails, where 0:05:24.839 --> 0:05:29.720 we have several medications that work slightly differently for the viruses. 0:05:30.200 --> 0:05:32.920 In combination, they can be highly effective. And I think, 0:05:33.120 --> 0:05:36.080 you know, the President is a good example. You know, 0:05:36.120 --> 0:05:42.080 he was in a high risk group being male, older, overweight, 0:05:42.320 --> 0:05:44.839 and there are other risk factors that other people have 0:05:44.920 --> 0:05:49.400 high blood pressure, diabetes, lung disease, UM, kidney disease, you 0:05:49.440 --> 0:05:51.800 know that we all know about. And I think that's 0:05:51.839 --> 0:05:54.479 also why our death rate or or a case fatality 0:05:54.560 --> 0:05:56.360 rate is a little higher here. You know, we say 0:05:56.520 --> 0:05:59.040 like why is an America not doing so well? Part 0:05:59.080 --> 0:06:01.800 of it is our full you know, our population tends 0:06:01.839 --> 0:06:05.280 to be overweight, more sedentary, couch potatoes. I don't want 0:06:05.279 --> 0:06:08.159 to generalize, but we we definitely have You're not wrong, 0:06:08.279 --> 0:06:10.000 and I think that's a fair I think that's a 0:06:10.000 --> 0:06:12.240 fair assessment. We talk about data. I think the data 0:06:12.240 --> 0:06:16.760 would bear you right. Exactly. We have almost a thirty 0:06:16.880 --> 0:06:20.800 percent obesity rate, and quite frankly, that's a high risk 0:06:21.000 --> 0:06:24.160 with COVID patients, and I think that is why we 0:06:24.320 --> 0:06:27.240 have a higher case fatality rate. I don't think it 0:06:27.279 --> 0:06:30.280 has anything to do with management, which is kind of standardized. 0:06:30.520 --> 0:06:33.640 But in any case, he got this cocktail of monoclonal 0:06:33.720 --> 0:06:38.159 Lanta Buddies by Regeneron and Lily is working on this regeneration, 0:06:38.200 --> 0:06:42.080 by the way, is headed by a colleague classmate, George 0:06:42.080 --> 0:06:46.240 Ancopolis from Columbia Medical School. I'm glad he made the 0:06:46.279 --> 0:06:49.279 distinction that, you know, we can't all just like copped 0:06:49.320 --> 0:06:51.800 her over to Walter Reed and be like, give me everything, 0:06:51.880 --> 0:06:54.159 give me what you got, um, But how do we 0:06:54.240 --> 0:06:58.720 think about it? So, for one, it does show you 0:06:58.760 --> 0:07:01.120 that in the White House, even though people are tested 0:07:01.680 --> 0:07:06.200 every day, because there's an incubation period, you can be 0:07:06.279 --> 0:07:10.400 infected and not recover virus from the naves of pharynx 0:07:10.440 --> 0:07:13.800 or from saliva. That this is not a hundred percent 0:07:13.920 --> 0:07:17.960 full proof approach testing people every day, whether it's back 0:07:18.000 --> 0:07:20.320 to school, and you know, we do need to accept 0:07:20.360 --> 0:07:24.000 that that it is imperfect, no matter how careful you 0:07:24.040 --> 0:07:27.160 can be. And obviously at the White House they're very 0:07:27.200 --> 0:07:31.800 meticulous and in a close proximity people working together. Really 0:07:31.840 --> 0:07:35.760 all you need is one person, uh where that test 0:07:35.800 --> 0:07:40.160 doesn't catch it until they are more more vi remaic, 0:07:40.200 --> 0:07:43.600 where there's more virus there. So, um, you know, he 0:07:43.680 --> 0:07:48.040 became symptomatic and really got a cocktail and unproven, but 0:07:48.120 --> 0:07:52.240 I think a very intelligent, smart cocktail um with not 0:07:52.320 --> 0:07:55.160 all of those drugs yet FDA approved. You know, one 0:07:55.160 --> 0:07:58.800 was room desiviere, which is approved for as an anti viral, 0:07:58.840 --> 0:08:00.960 and we do give those to pay in the hospital. 0:08:01.760 --> 0:08:06.320 Decks in methasone, which typically is given. You don't want 0:08:06.320 --> 0:08:08.440 to give that too early because it is a mildest 0:08:08.560 --> 0:08:11.760 as a steroid in immuno suppressant um, but we do 0:08:11.840 --> 0:08:14.760 give it to people who are getting more inflammation. So 0:08:15.080 --> 0:08:18.160 I suspect they were a little concerned about him with 0:08:18.200 --> 0:08:21.240 blood oxygen or perhaps his X ray was abnormal. I 0:08:21.280 --> 0:08:26.640 don't know. That, but that definitely decreases inflammation and probably 0:08:26.680 --> 0:08:29.760 one of the key drugs which is yet to be 0:08:29.800 --> 0:08:35.120 approved UH monoclonal antibodies and regeneration is is Um, one 0:08:35.160 --> 0:08:37.600 of a couple of companies working on this and at 0:08:37.640 --> 0:08:41.199 least with the regenera on Um system headed by one 0:08:41.200 --> 0:08:44.280 of our Columbia P and S alumni. Just to put 0:08:44.320 --> 0:08:48.679 in a plug um, these are mice that have a 0:08:48.800 --> 0:08:52.640 humanized immune system, and monoclonal antibodies are developed to the 0:08:52.679 --> 0:08:56.480 spike protein, which is the common protein. So even though 0:08:56.520 --> 0:08:59.840 the virus may mutate, that spike that's typical on the 0:09:00.000 --> 0:09:02.360 out or shell of the of the virus has has 0:09:02.480 --> 0:09:06.400 monoclonal antibodies and that can dramatically reduce, uh, the amount 0:09:06.440 --> 0:09:08.880 of virus in the bloodstream and really help the body's 0:09:08.920 --> 0:09:12.200 own you know, by time for the virus to be 0:09:12.280 --> 0:09:16.120 cleared in in your own UH immune system clear it. 0:09:16.520 --> 0:09:19.240 So that I think has great potential. You know. The 0:09:19.280 --> 0:09:22.600 problem of course is it's given intravenously, so you can't 0:09:22.640 --> 0:09:27.360 just pop up right right and and it is yet 0:09:27.400 --> 0:09:30.120 to be approved, but I think that certainly will be 0:09:30.160 --> 0:09:34.160 a big addition to the armamentarium. And like many other 0:09:34.280 --> 0:09:37.640 viruses and drugs. Having that combination therapy and anti viral 0:09:37.720 --> 0:09:41.800 to reduce viral replication antibodies immediately, so you don't have 0:09:41.840 --> 0:09:46.040 to wait for your body to develop antibuddies. You're given 0:09:46.080 --> 0:09:49.840 these pasid antibodies which soak up the virus and then 0:09:50.240 --> 0:09:53.240 perhaps decks and methodsone and some patients, So you know, 0:09:53.320 --> 0:09:56.960 this makes sense. I think we're making progress on on 0:09:56.960 --> 0:10:00.160 on treatments and we need to do that until al 0:10:00.200 --> 0:10:03.600 of vaccine arrived. Switch again, we'll probably be very helpful. 0:10:03.600 --> 0:10:06.120 It may not work in everyone, but again, as long 0:10:06.160 --> 0:10:09.520 as we have a sixty effectiveness and as long as 0:10:09.559 --> 0:10:12.800 we're able to get to more of a herd immunity um, 0:10:12.920 --> 0:10:15.520 that should make a big difference. But that's not until spring, 0:10:15.840 --> 0:10:20.640 right exactly. And as our reporter are Bob Lingreth, who's 0:10:20.679 --> 0:10:22.959 got the cover story of the magazine and he's done 0:10:22.960 --> 0:10:25.240 a lot of reporting on Giliad and Rambesca. Here he said, 0:10:25.679 --> 0:10:29.680 you know, Generation only has about fifty doses available, and 0:10:29.679 --> 0:10:32.400 he says, we've got fifty cases of the virus popping 0:10:32.480 --> 0:10:35.040 up every day, so the numbers are not in our 0:10:35.080 --> 0:10:38.720 favor for even some of the treatments. Like that. So 0:10:38.800 --> 0:10:42.959 it's it's it's tricky and just got about thirty seconds left. Yep, 0:10:43.120 --> 0:10:45.640 you know we're making progress. I think they're going to 0:10:45.760 --> 0:10:49.000 ramp up. That's why we have to do what we 0:10:49.080 --> 0:10:53.000 can do while further therapeutics and vaccines are being developed, 0:10:53.120 --> 0:10:56.280 which is um acting smart and we know what to do, 0:10:56.520 --> 0:11:02.480 and social distancing absolutely got it. This is Bloomberg Business 0:11:02.559 --> 0:11:06.559 Week with Carol Masser and Jason Kelly on Bloomberg Radio. 0:11:06.840 --> 0:11:08.520 Can I just say, it's a story, it's a map, 0:11:08.559 --> 0:11:11.680 it's a podcast. That's how important this story is. Yeah, 0:11:11.720 --> 0:11:15.040 it is such incredible work that this guy has been 0:11:15.040 --> 0:11:17.760 doing throughout the course of the pandemic. Although even before 0:11:17.880 --> 0:11:21.360 I feel like he shifted effortlessly from telling us everything 0:11:21.400 --> 0:11:23.640 we needed to know about the trade war to everything 0:11:23.640 --> 0:11:27.079 we needed to know about the economic impact of the pandemic, 0:11:27.280 --> 0:11:31.440 especially when it comes to the embodiment of the K 0:11:31.559 --> 0:11:33.640 shaped recovery. In a lot of ways, Carol, you know 0:11:33.720 --> 0:11:36.880 like he is helping us understand this. I think through 0:11:36.960 --> 0:11:39.560 the stories of real people, and this story is no 0:11:39.600 --> 0:11:41.480 exception to talk about Sean Donn and he has senior 0:11:41.480 --> 0:11:44.480 Trade and globalization reporter for Bloomberg he joins us on 0:11:44.520 --> 0:11:46.880 the phone from Maryland. But a lot of this is 0:11:46.920 --> 0:11:51.000 based on some incredible reporting Sean you did in Cleveland. 0:11:51.400 --> 0:11:53.840 Tell us about what you've found, because this is part 0:11:53.840 --> 0:11:57.360 of a series of stories that really capture what's going 0:11:57.400 --> 0:12:01.240 on in America. Thanks Jason, You guys are much too kind. 0:12:01.320 --> 0:12:04.040 I should just let you guys talk about this story. No, no, no, no, 0:12:04.400 --> 0:12:06.320 we're just gonna talk about how great you are. You 0:12:06.480 --> 0:12:10.880 have to tell us about the actual don't go on. Look. 0:12:11.000 --> 0:12:13.800 I think one of the things we've we've been struggling 0:12:13.800 --> 0:12:16.160 to get our head heads around as as people in 0:12:16.200 --> 0:12:20.040 America right now, is this idea of different letter shaped recoveries. 0:12:20.080 --> 0:12:21.920 What does a V shape recovery mean? What does a 0:12:22.000 --> 0:12:25.679 K shaped recovery mean? We're gonna see a W Nike swish? 0:12:25.760 --> 0:12:28.360 What what are we gonna say? And what's clear is 0:12:28.400 --> 0:12:33.040 that we're seeing a recovery that is being felt differently 0:12:33.679 --> 0:12:36.800 depending on where you are on the income ladder, where 0:12:36.840 --> 0:12:39.360 you are in terms of home ownership, where you are 0:12:39.400 --> 0:12:42.960 in terms of your ability to work from home, whether 0:12:43.000 --> 0:12:46.080 you're part of what I've started calling bread baking America. 0:12:46.360 --> 0:12:48.360 You know, that's those of us who are who are 0:12:48.400 --> 0:12:50.920 out there learning how to how to bake sour dough 0:12:51.080 --> 0:12:53.600 and and and have really bought a lot of flour 0:12:53.640 --> 0:12:56.599 in the last six months. Or Breadline America, which is 0:12:56.640 --> 0:12:58.960 a much sadder place, which is those people who are 0:12:58.960 --> 0:13:02.800 out there who are struggling with housing, security and food 0:13:02.840 --> 0:13:06.080 and security UH as a result of having lost their 0:13:06.120 --> 0:13:08.440 their jobs as a result of the pandemic and the 0:13:08.480 --> 0:13:12.120 economic collapse we've we've seen since then. One of the 0:13:12.160 --> 0:13:14.640 things I set out to look at was the question 0:13:14.679 --> 0:13:17.640 of housing, and I really was was my head was 0:13:17.720 --> 0:13:20.840 spinning on this one, and finally I settled on the 0:13:20.880 --> 0:13:24.760 idea of telling it through the story of two different houses. UM. 0:13:24.840 --> 0:13:28.000 And that really gets at the divide in the recovery 0:13:28.120 --> 0:13:31.480 right now. If you are a homeowner in a suburb 0:13:31.559 --> 0:13:36.320 of Cleveland called Lakewood, you are seeing demand for property 0:13:36.400 --> 0:13:39.319 sore right now. You're seeing property prices sore right now. 0:13:39.800 --> 0:13:43.640 And we talked to a newlywed couple who bought a 0:13:43.679 --> 0:13:47.240 house on del View Drive there UH and they ended 0:13:47.280 --> 0:13:49.760 up being one of half a dozen people who bid 0:13:49.880 --> 0:13:53.199 for this this this house within hours of it going online. 0:13:53.240 --> 0:13:55.520 And they have a very happy story to tell. Their 0:13:55.559 --> 0:13:58.760 two tech workers and they are are doing well in 0:13:58.840 --> 0:14:01.240 life right now there from home, and they've got this 0:14:01.320 --> 0:14:03.679 brand new home that they're that they're moving into on 0:14:03.720 --> 0:14:06.600 the other side of town. We went to the Mount 0:14:06.600 --> 0:14:09.880 Pleasant neighborhood and then I've been spending some time listening 0:14:09.920 --> 0:14:14.240 to proceedings in the Cleveland Housing Court, and in doing that, 0:14:14.679 --> 0:14:17.720 I ran across an eviction case involving a woman called 0:14:17.800 --> 0:14:21.920 Calais Gavings. Calais Gavings is a nursing assistant. She has 0:14:22.000 --> 0:14:26.160 rented a house UH in the Mount Pleasant neighborhood UH 0:14:26.400 --> 0:14:28.840 for nine hundred dollars a month, and at one point 0:14:28.840 --> 0:14:32.280 earlier this year she was laid off, she fell behind 0:14:32.280 --> 0:14:35.520 on the rent. When she was back at work, she 0:14:35.880 --> 0:14:38.400 just wasn't making as much as she used to, and 0:14:38.480 --> 0:14:41.000 so she ended up in the Cleveland Housing Court, caught 0:14:41.080 --> 0:14:44.800 up in an eviction crisis. And so these are today 0:14:44.880 --> 0:14:48.080 these two very different stories that you see at play 0:14:48.080 --> 0:14:50.200 in the housing market. But then you start scratching the 0:14:50.240 --> 0:14:54.320 surface of these things and you discovered that actually you 0:14:54.360 --> 0:14:57.600 can find really the legacy of the last crisis way 0:14:57.640 --> 0:14:59.720 back in two thousand and eight in the subprime and 0:14:59.760 --> 0:15:03.680 four closure crisis in the property records that involved Kellai 0:15:03.760 --> 0:15:07.600 Gaving's house, and and and also just in the diverging 0:15:07.720 --> 0:15:12.000 paths that you've had between homes and predominantly black neighborhoods 0:15:12.000 --> 0:15:14.440 in Cleveland and their values and those that you've seen 0:15:14.840 --> 0:15:17.960 and predominantly white neighborhoods. So it's a recovery that's unequal, 0:15:18.040 --> 0:15:20.280 but it's also building on the legacy of the last crisis. 0:15:20.400 --> 0:15:22.840 That's what's so troubling, Sean. And that's what you know, 0:15:22.920 --> 0:15:25.360 Like you say, whether it was the east side of 0:15:25.400 --> 0:15:27.200 town or the west side of town, west side being 0:15:27.240 --> 0:15:29.880 wealthy or east side not so much, where it's mostly 0:15:29.960 --> 0:15:33.080 black neighborhoods and a high percentage of rental properties, it 0:15:33.160 --> 0:15:37.080 was already a struggling area, right, and then you layer 0:15:37.160 --> 0:15:41.160 on the pandemic and it's just gotten you know, worse again. 0:15:41.200 --> 0:15:43.360 But it's also, as you said, it was already an 0:15:43.440 --> 0:15:46.800 area that wasn't able to completely catch its breath from 0:15:46.840 --> 0:15:49.040 the last crisis. And you know, when we talk about 0:15:49.080 --> 0:15:51.200 wealth creation, I think this is a part of it. 0:15:51.280 --> 0:15:54.600 Like there these groups of people are never given a 0:15:54.720 --> 0:15:58.720 chance to create any kind of real wealth in their lives. 0:15:58.880 --> 0:16:00.520 It is such a huge part of it. And it 0:16:00.600 --> 0:16:03.360 has to do with with with neighborhood stability in a 0:16:03.400 --> 0:16:05.720 lot of ways. I mean the house that kill a 0:16:05.800 --> 0:16:09.640 gatherings and she moved out at the end of September 0:16:09.800 --> 0:16:13.080 out of this house, but it's owned by UH, an 0:16:13.120 --> 0:16:17.920 anonymous LLCO limited liability company that's actually, if you kind 0:16:17.960 --> 0:16:22.120 of track it down, is a shell company owned by 0:16:22.560 --> 0:16:27.080 French investors who have flocked into Cleveland UH to buy 0:16:27.160 --> 0:16:30.200 up these cheap properties because they're searching for yield. UH. 0:16:30.480 --> 0:16:33.760 You know, the investor who owns that property bought it 0:16:33.800 --> 0:16:37.320 for sixty five thousand dollars a year ago. UH. They're 0:16:37.320 --> 0:16:40.520 collecting nine dollars a month in rent on it. That's 0:16:40.560 --> 0:16:44.960 a gross annual turn of like sixt It almost doesn't 0:16:44.960 --> 0:16:48.720 matter if the value of the house goes up, right. 0:16:48.840 --> 0:16:52.040 This is a cash flow play for those investors. And 0:16:52.920 --> 0:16:55.720 on the flip side, you have these these predominantly white 0:16:55.760 --> 0:16:58.960 suburbs where you have had pretty steady capital appreciation. This 0:16:59.040 --> 0:17:01.760 house that we looked at in the neighborhood of Lakewood 0:17:01.760 --> 0:17:04.560 had actually more than doubled in value in the last 0:17:04.640 --> 0:17:08.840 eight or nine years. And Seawan, I feel like, you know, 0:17:09.320 --> 0:17:12.720 one of the most powerful pieces of your reporting is 0:17:12.800 --> 0:17:17.240 that you're telling stories that I am sure people in 0:17:17.720 --> 0:17:21.159 a number of different cities, countless cities across America, and 0:17:21.200 --> 0:17:23.280 you've been to some of them. You certainly talked to people, 0:17:23.280 --> 0:17:26.120 and a lot of them this could be their city too. 0:17:26.240 --> 0:17:29.679 This is not a Cleveland problem. Oh look, absolutely, it's 0:17:29.680 --> 0:17:32.120 a problem right here in Washington, d C. I'm out 0:17:32.160 --> 0:17:35.679 in the predominantly white suburbs of Washington, d C. I 0:17:35.760 --> 0:17:39.399 have a very different economic reality from people who are 0:17:39.560 --> 0:17:43.159 in predominantly black neighborhoods on the other side of the 0:17:43.200 --> 0:17:48.000 Anacostia River. It's the same thing in New York. It's 0:17:48.080 --> 0:17:51.280 the same thing in you know out west there is 0:17:51.359 --> 0:17:54.840 There isn't almost no American city where this kind of 0:17:54.920 --> 0:17:59.000 unequal recovery isn't the story? Yeah, well, can I just 0:17:59.200 --> 0:18:00.960 I know we've got were at that time. We could 0:18:00.960 --> 0:18:02.840 talk a lot more about this, and I highly recommend 0:18:02.880 --> 0:18:05.080 I'll put it out on Twitter. I may have already, 0:18:05.119 --> 0:18:06.440 but I'll do it again because I think it's a 0:18:06.480 --> 0:18:10.160 must read. But is there any hope that things change? 0:18:10.200 --> 0:18:13.560 Sean and your reporting? We just have about seconds here. Yeah. No, 0:18:13.680 --> 0:18:15.520 I think one of the really interesting things is what 0:18:15.560 --> 0:18:17.840 do you do about something like this. And part of 0:18:17.840 --> 0:18:21.639 the problem here is that the policy response that's aimed 0:18:21.680 --> 0:18:25.600 at the broader economy is actually helping accelerate this, right. 0:18:25.640 --> 0:18:28.679 I mean, we know that the said pouring money into 0:18:28.800 --> 0:18:31.720 into into markets, lowering interest rates, that lowers mortgage rates, 0:18:31.760 --> 0:18:34.680 that helps homeowners and so on. There needs to be 0:18:34.800 --> 0:18:38.479 some kind of targeting for someone like to Lake Athings 0:18:38.520 --> 0:18:40.560 that say that nine hundred dollars a month needs to 0:18:40.600 --> 0:18:45.399 go into building equity rather than simply going to rent. 0:18:45.480 --> 0:18:49.560 That is helping an offshore investor who has no interest 0:18:49.600 --> 0:18:54.040 in that neighborhood beyond cash flow and return. Yeah, yeah, 0:18:54.080 --> 0:18:56.399 it's really I mean, the whole the wealth gap is 0:18:56.480 --> 0:18:58.840 so apparent. Uh, and that's a big part of it. 0:18:58.840 --> 0:19:02.119 All right, Sean Donn And thank you really really appreciate it. Uh, 0:19:02.200 --> 0:19:05.680 you're reporting it is must read as always, So check 0:19:05.720 --> 0:19:08.120 out this story. It's in the new double issue Bloomberg 0:19:08.119 --> 0:19:10.720 Business Week magazine, available in newsstands and Bloomberg dot com. 0:19:10.800 --> 0:19:15.960 It's also featured in the Stephonomics podcast with our colleague 0:19:16.040 --> 0:19:18.680 Stephanie Flanders, So get that where you get your podcast. 0:19:18.920 --> 0:19:22.520 This is Bloomberg Business Week with Carol Masser and Jason 0:19:22.600 --> 0:19:25.920 Kelly on Bloomberg Radio. All right, so we talked about 0:19:25.920 --> 0:19:27.960 her yesterday. She is the subject of a story in 0:19:27.960 --> 0:19:31.360 the magazine which reveals how she is the economist that's 0:19:31.400 --> 0:19:35.080 become a pandemic sensation by helping stressed out parents. Uh, 0:19:35.119 --> 0:19:37.440 and we've talked with her before in Today's Business Week 0:19:37.440 --> 0:19:40.520 Economics were so delighted excited to have back with us 0:19:40.680 --> 0:19:43.679 Emily Austar, author and professor of economics at the Watson 0:19:43.680 --> 0:19:47.040 Institute for International and Public Affairs at Brown University. She's 0:19:47.040 --> 0:19:49.600 a Bloomberg opinion columnist, and she joins us on the 0:19:49.640 --> 0:19:53.439 phone from Providence, Rhode Island. Um, Emily, we really are delighted. 0:19:53.440 --> 0:19:55.919 We had a great conversation with Esme Dupress, who wrote 0:19:56.240 --> 0:19:59.320 this great story about you that really gets into your 0:19:59.320 --> 0:20:02.080 background and and also the impact you're having on our 0:20:02.119 --> 0:20:04.560 world today, especially parents, which we'll talk about in a moment. 0:20:05.040 --> 0:20:08.800 But talk to us about kind of how you grew 0:20:08.920 --> 0:20:11.200 up and how you got to where you are today, 0:20:11.200 --> 0:20:14.160 because I feel like economics is in your bones, your blood, 0:20:14.200 --> 0:20:17.480 your genetic makeup. No, it's it's totally right. So thank 0:20:17.520 --> 0:20:19.600 you guys for having me. And I'm like incredibly grateful 0:20:19.640 --> 0:20:22.320 to me for having written this article. It's sort of 0:20:22.320 --> 0:20:24.959 always a little bit nerve wracking to read about yourself 0:20:25.000 --> 0:20:28.080 and but um, I think she just I was so 0:20:28.160 --> 0:20:30.639 happy with it. Um. So yeah, I grew up my 0:20:30.680 --> 0:20:32.680 both of my parents are economists. That's probably the most 0:20:32.760 --> 0:20:35.359 valient piece of information. So I have two economist parents. 0:20:35.359 --> 0:20:38.040 I'm actually married to an economist. So I'm sort of 0:20:38.080 --> 0:20:41.320 like steeped from from birth more or less in the 0:20:41.440 --> 0:20:45.000 idea of using economics for decision making in your household. 0:20:47.240 --> 0:20:52.600 And so how does that help you maybe think of 0:20:52.640 --> 0:20:56.360 it differently? You know, in this sense that if you're 0:20:56.400 --> 0:20:58.359 kind of living and breathing it all the time, if 0:20:58.400 --> 0:21:02.199 it really has sort of baked into your very uh being, 0:21:02.400 --> 0:21:06.479 do you think that maybe you naturally think a different 0:21:06.520 --> 0:21:10.159 way than other people do? Make sure it's I'm not 0:21:10.400 --> 0:21:12.280 totally sure, but I do think that there's a sense 0:21:12.280 --> 0:21:13.760 in which you sort of grow up with a way 0:21:13.760 --> 0:21:17.199 of approaching problem and um, you know, and with like 0:21:17.320 --> 0:21:19.040 some as they tell the story, like my my mom 0:21:19.080 --> 0:21:22.000 didn't want to grocery shop when I was a kid. 0:21:22.000 --> 0:21:23.560 I said, you know, why don't we go grocery shopping? 0:21:23.600 --> 0:21:26.120 Like everyone else, why are you ordering groceres? Did you say, well, 0:21:26.160 --> 0:21:28.200 I have a very high opportunity cost of my time 0:21:28.880 --> 0:21:30.639 and you know, And I feel like for me, I 0:21:30.680 --> 0:21:32.520 was like, oh, we were like okay, that makes sense, 0:21:32.560 --> 0:21:34.080 you know what I think. But I think for like, 0:21:34.280 --> 0:21:35.919 for a lot of people, that would be like what 0:21:36.200 --> 0:21:40.399 what are you talking? Yeah, how do you like that 0:21:40.520 --> 0:21:42.600 pick up like you know, pack and gum if you're 0:21:42.600 --> 0:21:45.879 not at the grocery store having those opportunities? I mean no, 0:21:46.200 --> 0:21:48.480 I mean I think as a kid, it's like, where, 0:21:48.520 --> 0:21:50.840 like how was I going to get to negotiate over 0:21:50.840 --> 0:21:53.600 the sugary peanut butter if we were just ordering on online? 0:21:55.200 --> 0:21:58.480 But but but at the same time, like that, that 0:21:58.600 --> 0:22:02.199 notion of learning opportunity any costs though and thinking about 0:22:02.240 --> 0:22:06.760 it is a really um kind of intriguing one because 0:22:06.840 --> 0:22:10.360 if you it's funny you say that because I've actually, um, 0:22:10.520 --> 0:22:13.280 I guess, sort of showing my predilections as well. I've 0:22:13.320 --> 0:22:16.600 actually had that conversation with I've talked about opportunity costs 0:22:16.680 --> 0:22:20.200