WEBVTT - Kim Philby: Greatest Liar of All Time? 0:00:01.440 --> 0:00:07.720 Welcome to Stuff you Should Know, a production of iHeartRadio. 0:00:11.119 --> 0:00:13.440 Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh, and there's 0:00:13.520 --> 0:00:15.960 Chuck and Jerry's here too, and this is the podcast. 0:00:16.120 --> 0:00:19.440 As just mentioned, we call it Stuff you Should Do. 0:00:19.880 --> 0:00:22.520 And by the way, we should say to any new listeners, 0:00:22.760 --> 0:00:25.720 we're not saying you should already know this stuff, so 0:00:25.800 --> 0:00:28.520 don't be hostile toward us about that. We're saying we 0:00:28.600 --> 0:00:31.000 think you should know this because it's so interesting we 0:00:31.040 --> 0:00:32.040 want to tell you about it. 0:00:32.159 --> 0:00:33.960 Yeah, we could have changed the name of the show 0:00:34.000 --> 0:00:37.160 to Things that you might find interesting, but then again 0:00:37.200 --> 0:00:39.559 you might not as well, But that didn't have a ring. 0:00:39.760 --> 0:00:43.840 Yeah, there's no implied dummy in the title of our podcast. 0:00:43.880 --> 0:00:46.000 Okay, we're the dummies. 0:00:48.120 --> 0:00:50.880 So I'll tell you somebody who wasn't a dummy as 0:00:51.000 --> 0:00:53.440 far as it comes to being a world class liar, 0:00:53.920 --> 0:01:00.200 maybe England's greatest liar ever. It was a spy from 0:01:00.720 --> 0:01:04.560 the World War Two beginning early Cold War era named 0:01:05.560 --> 0:01:09.480 Harold Kim Philby. And if that name rings a bell, 0:01:09.680 --> 0:01:13.640 well to sit back and enjoy this episode on a 0:01:13.680 --> 0:01:16.800 British spy. If you don't know who Kim Philby is, 0:01:17.040 --> 0:01:21.240 sit back, and enjoy this episode on a British Spy. 0:01:21.600 --> 0:01:23.200 Your voice is going up like you were going to 0:01:23.240 --> 0:01:24.160 say something else. Is that it? 0:01:24.360 --> 0:01:26.559 I just wanted to replicate it perfectly. 0:01:27.400 --> 0:01:29.240 So big thanks to Dave who helped us with this. 0:01:29.360 --> 0:01:31.319 But Dave also wanted us to shout out, and we 0:01:31.360 --> 0:01:33.520 want to shout out. A book by Ben McIntyre, A 0:01:33.560 --> 0:01:37.760 Spy among Friends Colon Kim Philby and The Great Betrayal, 0:01:38.920 --> 0:01:42.160 and also a mini series that I have not watched 0:01:42.160 --> 0:01:44.080 that I think I probably will now as six parter 0:01:44.160 --> 0:01:48.640 on Amazon MGM called A Spy among Friends from twenty 0:01:48.680 --> 0:01:53.720 twenty three, starring the winsome guy Pierce Oh Yeah, as 0:01:53.840 --> 0:01:58.720 Kim Philby or Harold Adrian Russell Philby as He was 0:01:58.760 --> 0:02:03.040 born in India in nineteen twelve because his dad was 0:02:03.080 --> 0:02:05.960 a colonialist. I can never say that word, right. 0:02:06.920 --> 0:02:10.560 I think he nailed it, Philby Kim. He was nicknamed 0:02:10.600 --> 0:02:13.680 Kim because there was a Rudyard Kipling's story, a book 0:02:13.720 --> 0:02:16.840 I think about a street urchin raised on the streets 0:02:16.840 --> 0:02:18.800 of India who becomes a spy. 0:02:19.200 --> 0:02:19.920 Isn't that crazy? 0:02:20.360 --> 0:02:21.160 Yeah? It really is. 0:02:21.360 --> 0:02:23.880 Because he got this nickname as a kid, like before 0:02:24.320 --> 0:02:25.799 he knew he was going to be a spy. 0:02:26.120 --> 0:02:28.160 Right, He wasn't out in there like we're I call 0:02:28.200 --> 0:02:31.120 you Kim from now on. He Yeah, he grew up 0:02:31.160 --> 0:02:33.680 to be a spy. And he was nicknamed after a 0:02:33.720 --> 0:02:35.200 boy who grew up to be a spy, so it 0:02:35.280 --> 0:02:38.920 is pretty interesting. But everyone called him Kim Philby. And 0:02:38.960 --> 0:02:41.880 he was born in India nineteen twelve. His dad was 0:02:41.919 --> 0:02:47.320 a colonialist, like you said, his sympathies actually lay with India. 0:02:48.360 --> 0:02:51.520 He eventually quit the service and went to become a 0:02:51.960 --> 0:02:56.120 I think an advisor to the King of Saudi Arabia. Eventually, 0:02:56.520 --> 0:02:56.919 oh wow. 0:02:57.040 --> 0:02:59.799 Well, at any rate, he was born to a well 0:03:00.080 --> 0:03:03.200 old family. His parents were gone a lot. He was 0:03:03.280 --> 0:03:07.200 raised by his Indian nanny. He went to Cambridge, so 0:03:07.280 --> 0:03:11.120 he was sort of on that track of not you know, 0:03:11.280 --> 0:03:15.240 royalty or anything, but probably aristocracy, you could say. And 0:03:15.280 --> 0:03:17.440 when he went to Cambridge it was the early nineteen thirties, 0:03:18.520 --> 0:03:22.440 pretty rocky time. The Great Depression was happening, and that's 0:03:22.480 --> 0:03:25.440 when the fascists, especially in Germany and Italy, saw their 0:03:25.480 --> 0:03:28.840 sort of opportunity when people were wrecked by poverty, to 0:03:28.960 --> 0:03:31.079 step in and start controlling things. 0:03:31.760 --> 0:03:36.000 Right. So communism became a thing among young Cambridge and 0:03:36.080 --> 0:03:41.000 intellectuals at the time, and communism was viewed as the 0:03:41.160 --> 0:03:45.920 antidote to fascism, which was on the rise at the 0:03:45.920 --> 0:03:50.200 time in the late thirties. And the reason I was, like, why, 0:03:50.480 --> 0:03:54.160 I don't understand that, because my geopolitics is seen through 0:03:54.200 --> 0:03:57.200 the view of an eighties American kid who lived through 0:03:57.200 --> 0:04:00.360 the end of the Cold War. Yeah, but communist is 0:04:00.400 --> 0:04:03.240 all about class and social equality. One of the defining 0:04:03.320 --> 0:04:07.240 characteristics of fascism is a rigid hierarchy. So of course 0:04:07.280 --> 0:04:10.600 the aristocracy of Great Britain would be fully on board 0:04:11.000 --> 0:04:14.960 with a kind of ideology that said, yes, you're at 0:04:15.000 --> 0:04:16.720 the top, you deserve to be at the top, you 0:04:16.720 --> 0:04:20.280 should stay at the top. And so they aristocracy at 0:04:20.279 --> 0:04:23.599 the time definitely had sympathies with the Nazis because of 0:04:23.640 --> 0:04:27.320 their fascist leanings, and that did not sit well with 0:04:27.360 --> 0:04:32.880 these young Cambridge intellectuals who had bought fully into communism 0:04:32.920 --> 0:04:36.360 as the ideology to spread throughout the world. 0:04:36.560 --> 0:04:39.200 Yeah, and it was especially a way for you know, 0:04:39.800 --> 0:04:42.880 kids to rebel against what their parents loved, which is 0:04:42.920 --> 0:04:46.520 a classic thing that kids and teenagers and young adults do. 0:04:47.520 --> 0:04:49.640 And in this case, these like you said, these young 0:04:49.680 --> 0:04:52.720 Cambridge elites were like, hey, communism is where it's at. 0:04:53.920 --> 0:04:56.880 Forget this. I was about to say patriarchy, but it 0:04:56.920 --> 0:05:01.320 was really you know, everybody, the upper class altogether. And 0:05:01.480 --> 0:05:03.760 you know, as far as Philby is concerned, he didn't. 0:05:04.080 --> 0:05:06.920 He wasn't out there calling for a revolution or anything 0:05:06.920 --> 0:05:10.480 and let's go burn it down. He apparently never officially 0:05:10.600 --> 0:05:13.359 joined the Communist Party, but he was. He was a 0:05:13.400 --> 0:05:16.360 Communist through and through, like up until the very end. 0:05:16.480 --> 0:05:19.359 He was very committed to it, something he did not 0:05:19.560 --> 0:05:22.360 grow out of like his parents. I probably hoped he would. 0:05:22.800 --> 0:05:25.400 I mean, out of all of the Soviet spies in 0:05:25.480 --> 0:05:28.080 the UK at the time, he was probably the most 0:05:28.120 --> 0:05:29.960 committed Communists. 0:05:30.440 --> 0:05:33.320 Yeah, and as you'll see, there were plenty of chances 0:05:33.360 --> 0:05:35.120 to go a different way, and he never did. 0:05:35.480 --> 0:05:39.560 No for sure. So he was at Cambridge and he 0:05:39.720 --> 0:05:43.560 met with a professor. And with this professor he said, hey, 0:05:43.560 --> 0:05:47.839 I really want to help communism, you know, spread throughout 0:05:47.839 --> 0:05:50.640 the world. What can I do? What as a young 0:05:51.279 --> 0:05:56.440 aristocratic Cambridge grad due to help communism? And this professor said, 0:05:56.560 --> 0:05:59.640 I so in Vienna right now, they're they're battling the 0:05:59.680 --> 0:06:04.640 commun and his comrades are battling a dictator named Engelbert Dolphus, 0:06:05.440 --> 0:06:09.520 and Dolphus is a fascist dictator, and you can go 0:06:09.560 --> 0:06:12.279 to Austria and help. I don't know how, but just 0:06:12.320 --> 0:06:14.240 go to Austria and figure it out. And he did. 0:06:14.440 --> 0:06:17.520 Yeah, he was like, oh, I was thinking a letter 0:06:17.560 --> 0:06:20.760 campaign or something, but but sure, I'll go to Austria 0:06:21.200 --> 0:06:24.840 and find a ruthless dictator. While he was there, he 0:06:24.880 --> 0:06:26.480 went to be in a lovely town, by the way, 0:06:26.480 --> 0:06:29.120 one of my favorites in Europe. He fell in love 0:06:29.160 --> 0:06:31.559 with a woman named Alice Lizzie Coleman, who was another 0:06:31.600 --> 0:06:35.760 young communist. They became a co revolutionaries and they you know, 0:06:36.000 --> 0:06:39.240 hooked up also in you know, in a more romantic way, 0:06:39.320 --> 0:06:42.880 hugging and kissing that kind of thing. Okay, and Dolphus, 0:06:42.960 --> 0:06:46.040 the fascist dictator, said all right, we got to get 0:06:46.120 --> 0:06:48.000 rid of these communists and we will do so by 0:06:48.160 --> 0:06:52.479 whatever means we need to. And that Lizzy woman was 0:06:52.520 --> 0:06:55.279 on that list. She was pretty well known or you know, 0:06:55.320 --> 0:06:58.719 well known as far as the insider fascist dictators go. 0:06:59.560 --> 0:07:01.880 And they said, all right, we got to get out 0:07:01.920 --> 0:07:03.880 of here. They realized the writing was on the wall, 0:07:03.960 --> 0:07:07.360 so they got married, they fled to England and in 0:07:07.400 --> 0:07:11.760 London he finally Kim Philby got in touch with a 0:07:11.800 --> 0:07:15.559 real Soviet operative at a secret meeting in Regent Park 0:07:15.600 --> 0:07:18.960 that was arranged by one of Litzi's communist friends, and 0:07:19.240 --> 0:07:21.920 it was game time. It was on from that point forward. 0:07:22.440 --> 0:07:26.440 Yeah. So this real life communist was a Czech academic 0:07:27.040 --> 0:07:32.520 who was undercover for the Soviets as basically a spymaster. 0:07:32.840 --> 0:07:35.240 His name was Arnold Deutsch, or at least that's what 0:07:35.280 --> 0:07:38.120 he told people. I guess it's where Germany comes up 0:07:38.120 --> 0:07:41.960 in this one. His code name and what he used 0:07:42.160 --> 0:07:46.120 to communicate with people was auto Otto. Apparently it was 0:07:46.200 --> 0:07:48.960 huge insecurity. He would make Philby take like three taxis 0:07:49.000 --> 0:07:52.560 at least before they would meet. And this guy was like, okay, 0:07:53.560 --> 0:07:56.520 I can do something with you. You're a like an 0:07:56.560 --> 0:08:00.960 aristocratic You're a member of the upper crust of British society, 0:08:01.360 --> 0:08:05.280 and right now, the upper crust of British society is 0:08:05.560 --> 0:08:09.680 if you're from them, you have total trust across the board. 0:08:10.000 --> 0:08:11.400 Let's take advantage of that. 0:08:12.040 --> 0:08:16.000 Yeah, he was pretty ideal for that position. But he 0:08:16.120 --> 0:08:17.920 was like, how good of an actor are you though? 0:08:17.920 --> 0:08:19.920 Because that's what really matters if you're going to get 0:08:19.920 --> 0:08:23.240 into this. And Philby said, well, let's just say this 0:08:23.880 --> 0:08:25.400 one day, Guy Pierce is going to play me in 0:08:25.440 --> 0:08:28.720 a streaming series. And he was like, what does that mean? 0:08:28.840 --> 0:08:31.080 That makes no sense at all. He said, Okay, I'm 0:08:31.080 --> 0:08:32.960 a pretty good actor, and a good actor will eventually 0:08:33.000 --> 0:08:36.680 play me. He's really got to fall into this part, 0:08:36.760 --> 0:08:40.520 you know, in such a perfect way that obviously no 0:08:40.600 --> 0:08:44.520 one's going to find out. That's the ultimate goal of 0:08:44.559 --> 0:08:47.440 being a mole is to be a great liar, and 0:08:47.480 --> 0:08:49.320 he was really really good at it. One of the 0:08:49.360 --> 0:08:51.640 things he had to do, though, was find a job 0:08:52.559 --> 0:08:54.720 to you know, as cover. And he's like, the perfect 0:08:54.800 --> 0:08:56.280 job for this would be a journalist. 0:08:57.280 --> 0:08:59.400 Yeah. But one other thing he had to do, too 0:08:59.600 --> 0:09:03.240 was he had to he had to become, at least outwardly, 0:09:03.800 --> 0:09:09.200 what he despised the most, which was the quintessential English aristocrat. 0:09:09.480 --> 0:09:12.079 Yeah. Right wing yep, right wing. 0:09:12.120 --> 0:09:18.600 Fascist sympathies that aren't particularly well hidden, super conservative, very 0:09:18.679 --> 0:09:24.079 loyal to the British crown. Yeah, essentially everything you think 0:09:24.120 --> 0:09:26.040 of when you think of like a guy wearing a 0:09:26.040 --> 0:09:29.480 bowler hat in the forties in Great Britain carrying an 0:09:29.559 --> 0:09:33.120 umbrella on his forearm, right, Like, he did not like 0:09:33.200 --> 0:09:38.200 these people, and yet he now entered their world where 0:09:38.240 --> 0:09:42.680 he would stay essentially as a mole for years to come. 0:09:43.040 --> 0:09:46.000 And I mean it's I don't really sympathize with him 0:09:46.040 --> 0:09:49.040 because of who he was and what a trader he was. Yeah, 0:09:49.840 --> 0:09:53.040 but I do sympathize with him in the idea of 0:09:53.080 --> 0:09:55.520 having to live your life like that around people you 0:09:55.640 --> 0:09:58.840 despise and have to pretend like you like them for 0:09:59.000 --> 0:10:01.360 years on end, or you are one of them for 0:10:01.480 --> 0:10:03.760 years on end. That had to be that had to 0:10:03.880 --> 0:10:06.320 definitely be rough on the old soul, you know. 0:10:06.800 --> 0:10:09.719 Yeah, you know, here's the thing I never thought about. 0:10:10.280 --> 0:10:12.199 Seen so many stories on this kind of thing. We've 0:10:12.200 --> 0:10:14.120 read so many books and seen so many movies about 0:10:14.120 --> 0:10:17.760 double agents and people you know, lying for cover. But 0:10:18.440 --> 0:10:20.160 I always think about, like, oh, yeah, to live that 0:10:20.200 --> 0:10:21.680 lie and to keep that up, that must be hard. 0:10:22.200 --> 0:10:26.160 Until we did this episode, I never thought about how 0:10:26.240 --> 0:10:30.480 hard that would be to just like be sleeping with 0:10:30.520 --> 0:10:33.280 the enemy essentially full time, and like all your friends, 0:10:33.320 --> 0:10:36.040 all your social circle, everything that comes out of your mouth, 0:10:36.120 --> 0:10:38.880 like has to be the thing that you hate the most. 0:10:39.280 --> 0:10:42.079 Right It's incredible. I never considered how hard that would be. 0:10:42.400 --> 0:10:47.320 Right, So you said that he was told he needed 0:10:47.320 --> 0:10:50.719 a job, Yes, and he became a journalist. 0:10:50.920 --> 0:10:55.520 Jo, you are in al That's m right. 0:10:57.160 --> 0:11:00.240 That was his job. And the reason why it was 0:11:00.280 --> 0:11:03.319 such a great profession for him is that you can 0:11:03.360 --> 0:11:05.480 go all over the world as a journalist and you're 0:11:05.520 --> 0:11:07.720 just like, yeah, I'm covering the running of the bowl, 0:11:07.880 --> 0:11:12.839 so here i am. Or this Olympics is amazing, isn't it. 0:11:12.880 --> 0:11:15.160 Yeah, Octoberfest, let's do it right. 0:11:15.240 --> 0:11:17.760 Nobody's gonna question why you're in this country because you're 0:11:17.800 --> 0:11:21.760 covering something. That's one thing. Another thing, too, is if 0:11:21.800 --> 0:11:26.439 you are covering like elite people, you're kind of considered 0:11:26.480 --> 0:11:29.439 a member of the club just in and of itself. Right, 0:11:29.480 --> 0:11:31.439 So people let their guard down around you because you're 0:11:31.440 --> 0:11:34.080 an aristocrat, you're one of them. They know you won't 0:11:34.080 --> 0:11:37.280 say the things that they are saying off the record. 0:11:37.360 --> 0:11:39.040 You won't print those in the paper, but you could 0:11:39.320 --> 0:11:40.400 sell them to the Soviets. 0:11:40.960 --> 0:11:43.559 That's exactly right. So he gathered all sorts of off 0:11:43.559 --> 0:11:47.480 the record secrets and all this stuff from interviewing people 0:11:47.520 --> 0:11:50.320 at the highest echelons of power that they were sharing 0:11:50.320 --> 0:11:52.280 with him because he was one of them. He was 0:11:52.320 --> 0:11:54.400 just turning right around and giving it to the Soviets, 0:11:54.400 --> 0:11:57.800 like you said, So his career as a journalist to 0:11:57.880 --> 0:11:59.840 start out was it was a great choice. 0:12:00.200 --> 0:12:02.720 Yeah, and it's just further reinforced the more he does 0:12:02.760 --> 0:12:05.320 it because he's not printing that stuff. So they're like, oh, 0:12:05.360 --> 0:12:07.680 Philby can really be trusted because it's taking off the 0:12:07.679 --> 0:12:10.080 record stuff and he's not printing it. This guy's great, 0:12:10.280 --> 0:12:14.720 that's right. So to sort of bulk up his cover, 0:12:14.880 --> 0:12:18.440 he got this job at the Anglo German Trade Gazette, 0:12:18.520 --> 0:12:21.480 which was a British newspaper, but it was at least 0:12:21.480 --> 0:12:25.040 in part financed by the Nazis and it was about 0:12:25.160 --> 0:12:27.800 just trying to get trade relations between Britain and Journey. 0:12:27.880 --> 0:12:30.920 It was like a friendly newspaper between them. Yeah, so 0:12:30.960 --> 0:12:33.160 he had to you know, play this role of sort 0:12:33.160 --> 0:12:37.400 of quasi Nazi sympathizer and lose all of his friends 0:12:37.440 --> 0:12:40.120 in his life because all of his friends were these 0:12:40.200 --> 0:12:46.880 you know, sort of fellow ideologically aligned people, fellow leftists. 0:12:46.880 --> 0:12:49.280 Maybe not all of them communists, but he wasn't hanging 0:12:49.280 --> 0:12:51.679 out with these people until he started doing this this 0:12:51.800 --> 0:12:54.000 right wing sort of Nazi sympathizing group. 0:12:54.440 --> 0:12:58.520 Yeah, he essentially pulled a Christopher Hitchins and just completely 0:12:58.559 --> 0:13:03.280 transformed from one way to the other. So at the 0:13:03.360 --> 0:13:06.480 time civil war broke out, this is in the thirties 0:13:06.520 --> 0:13:12.760 as well in Spain. Have you ever seen the orphanage? Yes, 0:13:13.120 --> 0:13:16.960 very creepy in the time of the Spanish Civil War. 0:13:17.320 --> 0:13:18.000 Yeah, that was good. 0:13:18.400 --> 0:13:20.960 Yeah, it was. On one hand you had the Fascists 0:13:21.080 --> 0:13:24.920 led by Francisco Franco and they were fighting the Communists 0:13:25.000 --> 0:13:28.600 led by Franco Francisco, and he was supposed to be 0:13:28.640 --> 0:13:32.760 a war reporter for the London Times, and I mean 0:13:32.800 --> 0:13:35.240 he was writing for the Times, but really what he 0:13:35.280 --> 0:13:37.880 was doing was working his way into the good graces 0:13:37.880 --> 0:13:40.520 of the fascists so he could spy on them for 0:13:40.559 --> 0:13:45.080 the Soviets, who would then in turn tell what agents 0:13:45.080 --> 0:13:47.640 to do what to undermine the Fascist side of the 0:13:47.640 --> 0:13:48.240 civil war. 0:13:48.840 --> 0:13:51.000 Right, do you think there was ever any confusion about 0:13:51.000 --> 0:13:52.120 those two leaders? 0:13:52.480 --> 0:13:53.680 Oh, I made that. 0:13:54.840 --> 0:13:59.440 I thought you did very subtle though, thank you. I 0:13:59.480 --> 0:14:01.600 was trying to sniff you off the case, but in 0:14:01.640 --> 0:14:04.320 a way that made me look as less least dumb 0:14:04.320 --> 0:14:04.880 as possible. 0:14:05.200 --> 0:14:07.680 Well, that's why you're the best all around boy. 0:14:08.440 --> 0:14:12.680 Oh man, stop it, so we should mention, you know, 0:14:12.720 --> 0:14:14.480 sort of neither here nor there. But he and Lizzy 0:14:14.559 --> 0:14:16.480 had been divorced by this time. He was married four 0:14:16.520 --> 0:14:19.440 times total, but he would do things like strike up 0:14:19.440 --> 0:14:22.840 affairs in order to get into the places he needed 0:14:22.840 --> 0:14:25.320 to be. In this case, he had an affair with 0:14:25.360 --> 0:14:29.640 an older woman Franco's inner circle. But while he was there, 0:14:29.920 --> 0:14:33.120 his car was bombed essentially not a car bombing, but 0:14:33.280 --> 0:14:37.800 just hit by a shelling during a bombing raid, and 0:14:37.960 --> 0:14:41.320 all three passengers in the car that were not named 0:14:41.400 --> 0:14:45.000 Kim Philby died and he just had minor injuries. So 0:14:45.080 --> 0:14:49.080 he was actually awarded the Red Cross of Military Merit 0:14:49.480 --> 0:14:52.120 from Franco himself gave him this award. 0:14:52.800 --> 0:14:55.600 Yeah. One thing I saw real quick is that Kim 0:14:55.640 --> 0:15:01.720 Philby received the highest military honor possible from the Spanish, 0:15:02.280 --> 0:15:04.800 the Soviets, and the English, all while here was a 0:15:04.840 --> 0:15:06.200 spy for the USSR. 0:15:06.520 --> 0:15:08.200 Wow, that's crazy. 0:15:08.320 --> 0:15:11.920 So he gained so much access, like he was friendly 0:15:12.000 --> 0:15:15.800 with the highest levels of the fascist side of the 0:15:16.360 --> 0:15:19.920 Spanish government that the Soviets were like, we could just 0:15:20.040 --> 0:15:23.320 have him off Franco at this point, and they decided like, 0:15:23.480 --> 0:15:26.320 now we're just going to use up a valuable asset, 0:15:26.320 --> 0:15:29.320 and frankly, I'm not sure that that guy could do it. Yeah, 0:15:29.440 --> 0:15:32.800 so they didn't have him kill Franco, but he really 0:15:32.880 --> 0:15:36.640 proved his worth by infiltrating the fascists in the Spanish 0:15:36.640 --> 0:15:40.240 Civil War. And by this time, well should we take 0:15:40.240 --> 0:15:41.880 a break and then come back and talk about his 0:15:41.960 --> 0:15:46.200 next round of stuff? We got a break, Okay, Well 0:15:46.200 --> 0:15:48.920 we'll be right back to talk about his next round 0:15:48.920 --> 0:16:17.320 of stuff. So, Chuck I was saying that Philby proved 0:16:17.400 --> 0:16:20.440 himself a very loyal communist spy and an effective one too. 0:16:21.080 --> 0:16:23.560 So Auto is like, hey, man, you got any friends, 0:16:24.440 --> 0:16:27.760 and Philby says, yes, yes I do. As a matter 0:16:27.800 --> 0:16:30.240 of fact, I have two very close friends from my 0:16:30.320 --> 0:16:33.680 Cambridge days who I think would fit the bill perfectly. 0:16:34.920 --> 0:16:38.360 One of them was named Donald McClain. The other was 0:16:38.360 --> 0:16:42.120 Guy Burgess Burgess. I'm not sure which way he said it. 0:16:42.720 --> 0:16:45.920 I also saw a lot of conflicting information that Guy 0:16:45.920 --> 0:16:49.160 Burgess recruited Philby, and YadA ya YadA, But I think 0:16:49.200 --> 0:16:51.040 that the way that we've said it is correct. 0:16:51.600 --> 0:16:54.920 I think so so he how he gets Don McLain 0:16:55.040 --> 0:17:00.120 not American pie Don McLain. He gets Donald McLain on 0:17:00.160 --> 0:17:03.280 the on the dole is he goes to dinner and 0:17:03.320 --> 0:17:06.359 he sort of hints around, you know, like hey, you know, 0:17:06.480 --> 0:17:09.119 what do you what do you think? And McLain was like, 0:17:09.160 --> 0:17:10.959 I'm all in, buddy this, I've been waiting on this. 0:17:11.200 --> 0:17:14.520 So he he had to do the same thing Philby did, was, 0:17:14.720 --> 0:17:16.959 you know, like leave all his sort of leftist friends 0:17:16.960 --> 0:17:22.280 behind publicly come out in favor of fascism. And his 0:17:22.560 --> 0:17:27.159 other buddy, Guy Burgess, saw this happening and was like, Hey, 0:17:27.440 --> 0:17:31.600 what's going on here, dude? This is really fishy. I 0:17:31.640 --> 0:17:33.600 want in on this, Like I see what's happening here. 0:17:34.119 --> 0:17:36.800 And Burgess was not. I think McLain was a pretty 0:17:36.800 --> 0:17:39.240 decent fit for a spy, but Burgess was very loud, 0:17:39.600 --> 0:17:43.200 apparently a pretty obnoxious guy, and he was a barely 0:17:43.280 --> 0:17:46.920 closeted gay man at a time where homosexuality was illegal. 0:17:46.960 --> 0:17:49.720 It was a crime in England. All that to say 0:17:49.760 --> 0:17:52.200 he was not a real sort of low key, under 0:17:52.200 --> 0:17:54.160 the radar, you'll be a good spy kind of guy. 0:17:54.200 --> 0:17:56.840 But the Soviets are like he's fine. 0:17:56.680 --> 0:17:59.280 Yeah, it's crazy, Like he was a loose cannon if 0:17:59.320 --> 0:18:01.880 there ever was one, but they still recruited him anyway. 0:18:02.560 --> 0:18:05.000 Yeah, and they became known as the Cambridge three. I 0:18:05.040 --> 0:18:08.040 think eventually there would be a Cambridge five in total though, right. 0:18:08.880 --> 0:18:11.440 Yeah, there were two others that were kind of brought on, 0:18:11.440 --> 0:18:13.520 one of which was this lone wolf who was kind 0:18:13.520 --> 0:18:16.200 of acting independently. But what they had in common is 0:18:16.240 --> 0:18:20.600 they'd all five gone to Cambridge or instructed at Cambridge. 0:18:20.200 --> 0:18:22.040 Right, and ended up being Soviet spies. 0:18:22.119 --> 0:18:26.440 Oh yeah, that part two. Yeah, So when World War 0:18:26.480 --> 0:18:28.800 two broke out, the Soviets were like, oh, this is great. 0:18:28.880 --> 0:18:32.960 We're allied with England, you know, nominally, and we've got 0:18:32.960 --> 0:18:36.360 this guy on the inside. Let's have him join military intelligence. 0:18:36.920 --> 0:18:40.439 And just like everything else, military intelligence was run by 0:18:40.480 --> 0:18:44.440 the upper crust, the aristocracy of Great Britain at the time. 0:18:45.080 --> 0:18:48.320 And so just like he went to that lefty professor 0:18:48.359 --> 0:18:49.920 at Cambridge and said what can I do to help 0:18:49.960 --> 0:18:56.440 the Communist cause, this spy version of Kim Philby went 0:18:56.480 --> 0:18:59.080 to the British aristocracy and said what can I do 0:18:59.200 --> 0:19:01.439 to help the Crown? I would really love to get 0:19:01.480 --> 0:19:04.200 into intelligence. They're like, well, come aboard to I six. 0:19:04.760 --> 0:19:06.840 We don't need to vet you. We'll look at your 0:19:06.880 --> 0:19:09.480 background and see if there's anything that pops up. Nothing 0:19:09.520 --> 0:19:13.159 did great, come aboard, here's every secret that we have 0:19:13.280 --> 0:19:14.280 in the entire nation. 0:19:14.920 --> 0:19:18.439 Yeah, Like later on they literally asked, like about the vetting, 0:19:18.480 --> 0:19:20.640 and like how could this get past you? And they're like, yeah, 0:19:20.720 --> 0:19:22.760 he came to the right family and we knew the 0:19:22.760 --> 0:19:25.359 same people basically, Yeah, and this is how it was 0:19:25.400 --> 0:19:29.080 back then. By the way, look for a little preview. 0:19:29.160 --> 0:19:31.080 We got an episode on I six coming out at 0:19:31.119 --> 0:19:35.840 some point. Nice looking forward to that. But he's all 0:19:35.920 --> 0:19:38.320 of a sudden working for six is in the perfect 0:19:38.359 --> 0:19:42.720 position to be a double agent because of where he worked, 0:19:42.800 --> 0:19:45.360 but also because he was I mean, this is why 0:19:45.359 --> 0:19:46.920 they get Guy Peers to play this guy. He was 0:19:47.200 --> 0:19:51.719 really really charming guy apparently just very smart, very quick witted. 0:19:53.400 --> 0:19:55.119 Apparently he would just make you feel like you're the 0:19:55.119 --> 0:19:58.400 only person in the room. People really really loved him 0:19:58.400 --> 0:20:03.560 and thereby trusted him very quickly. And a legendary drinker. 0:20:03.600 --> 0:20:06.720 He could drink anyone under the table. And if you're 0:20:07.080 --> 0:20:10.480 in a cocktail party and you get people a little 0:20:10.520 --> 0:20:15.919 tipsy on whiskey, on that fine Scotch or British whiskey. 0:20:17.000 --> 0:20:20.439 They're gonna start spilling some secrets, and he's like Karen 0:20:20.480 --> 0:20:23.720 Allen in the First Raiders. You know, she could drink 0:20:23.720 --> 0:20:25.680 that guy under the table. So don't get into a 0:20:25.760 --> 0:20:27.960 drinking contest with Kim Philby or Karen Allen. 0:20:28.200 --> 0:20:32.000 No. I think that Dave put it best though, when 0:20:32.240 --> 0:20:34.000 he really brought it home for me, at least to 0:20:34.040 --> 0:20:38.399 describe how charming this guy was. He said, Dave compared 0:20:38.440 --> 0:20:42.320 him to peak Hugh Grant. I almost web my pants 0:20:42.359 --> 0:20:44.479 when I read that. I was like, God, that's charming. 0:20:44.960 --> 0:20:48.000 That's how disarmed I was. I almost just peeded. 0:20:49.720 --> 0:20:51.719 I haven't seen heretic yet. It looks good, though, I heard. 0:20:51.720 --> 0:20:52.320 It's pretty good. 0:20:52.760 --> 0:20:53.960 Oh have you seen talk to me? 0:20:55.560 --> 0:20:55.919 What's that? 0:20:56.400 --> 0:21:00.440 It's another A twenty four horror movie? Hmmm? 0:21:00.640 --> 0:21:01.560 Maybe what's it about? 0:21:02.960 --> 0:21:04.560 I don't want to give it away. It's about where 0:21:04.640 --> 0:21:10.080 you can you can hold this this mummified hand and 0:21:10.320 --> 0:21:13.199 speak to the spirit world. You've not seen it. It's Australian. 0:21:13.520 --> 0:21:14.480 I have not seen that. 0:21:14.640 --> 0:21:15.480 Oh, it's so good. 0:21:15.520 --> 0:21:16.320 I remember that. 0:21:16.400 --> 0:21:18.440 You're going to love it. 0:21:18.680 --> 0:21:20.879 Do you've become quite a horror movie guy over the 0:21:20.880 --> 0:21:21.840 past years. 0:21:22.080 --> 0:21:22.359 Yeah? 0:21:22.560 --> 0:21:24.520 No, I mean you like all kinds of stuff, right, 0:21:25.040 --> 0:21:27.200 does you? Is you mean into these scary movies? 0:21:27.320 --> 0:21:29.639 Oh no, she'll she'll hang out on the couch with 0:21:29.680 --> 0:21:32.040 me and watch them. But she's not. She doesn't watch them, 0:21:32.080 --> 0:21:36.040 although I think she would even like talk to me. 0:21:36.280 --> 0:21:38.760 It's just so well done and there's only a few 0:21:38.760 --> 0:21:41.879 parts that are like scary scary. Yeah, it's just a 0:21:41.920 --> 0:21:44.800 really well thought out horror movie. It's really cool. It's good. 0:21:44.840 --> 0:21:47.000 Well, and you're a You got an A twenty four 0:21:47.040 --> 0:21:50.280 tattoo on your lower back, so I know you're an adherent. 0:21:50.560 --> 0:21:51.920 Yeah. They really are great. 0:21:52.359 --> 0:21:56.600 All right, where were we? We were at Hugh Grant 0:21:56.880 --> 0:21:58.800 and we were talking about the drinking. All right, I 0:21:58.800 --> 0:22:00.919