WEBVTT - Anonymity 0:00:00.280 --> 0:00:02.840 Brought to you by the reinvented two thousand twelve camera. 0:00:03.160 --> 0:00:06.880 It's ready. Are you hey there, Text Stuff listeners, This 0:00:06.920 --> 0:00:09.200 is Jonathan Strickland and I have got a request for 0:00:09.240 --> 0:00:11.440 all of you. Now, Chris and I have decided that 0:00:11.440 --> 0:00:13.720 we're going to try and experiment. We're doing our first 0:00:13.920 --> 0:00:17.400 crowd sourced episode of tech Stuff and we want to 0:00:17.400 --> 0:00:21.480 know what your pick is for the worst video game 0:00:21.720 --> 0:00:25.600 of all time. Now, nominations you can. You can make 0:00:25.680 --> 0:00:28.479 one nomination. You nominate one game, and you need to 0:00:28.480 --> 0:00:30.639 tell us the name of the game and the platform 0:00:30.760 --> 0:00:32.839 it was on. And it could be any platform. It 0:00:32.840 --> 0:00:37.000 could be an arcade game, it could be a PC, Mac, Xbox, 0:00:37.040 --> 0:00:41.360 PS three, Nintendo handheld console. It can be web based 0:00:41.840 --> 0:00:43.839 if you like. But just you let us know what 0:00:43.840 --> 0:00:45.560 the platform is so we can make sure we count 0:00:45.600 --> 0:00:49.440 that as the votes. So you can nominate your game 0:00:49.600 --> 0:00:53.920 either through email, which is tech Stuff at how stuff 0:00:53.920 --> 0:00:58.320 works dot com, or you can nominate through Twitter or Facebook. 0:00:58.720 --> 0:01:01.600 And we're gonna put a cut off date on this. 0:01:01.680 --> 0:01:03.640 I want to have the episode go up by the 0:01:03.720 --> 0:01:07.720 end of September of eleven. So let's say you need 0:01:07.800 --> 0:01:12.960 to get your nominations in by September eleven. So if 0:01:12.959 --> 0:01:15.880 you get those nominations into us, we will make sure 0:01:15.920 --> 0:01:19.240 we include those in the process and we will have 0:01:19.280 --> 0:01:22.640 an episode where we give you the worst video games 0:01:22.800 --> 0:01:25.800 of all time based upon the votes of our listeners. 0:01:26.040 --> 0:01:30.840 Thanks a lot. Can't wait to hear from you. Get 0:01:30.840 --> 0:01:34.039 in touch with technology with tech Stuff from how stuff 0:01:34.040 --> 0:01:42.800 works dot com. Hello again, everyone, Welcome to tech Stuff. 0:01:42.800 --> 0:01:45.160 My name is Chris Paulette. I am an editor at 0:01:45.160 --> 0:01:47.520 how stuff Works dot com and sitting across from me 0:01:47.560 --> 0:01:51.600 as always a senior writer, Jonathan Strickland. I always feel 0:01:51.640 --> 0:01:57.080 like somebody's watching me and I have no privacy. You know, 0:01:57.160 --> 0:02:02.919 I have to admit you rockwell. So, uh, we're gonna 0:02:02.960 --> 0:02:07.600 talk today about anonymity and the web and its relationship 0:02:07.720 --> 0:02:11.880 with one another and how things have been changing over time. 0:02:11.880 --> 0:02:15.040 And this also ties a lot into a privacy in 0:02:15.040 --> 0:02:17.600 the web. In fact, the two are. These topics are 0:02:17.600 --> 0:02:21.920 all very closely related. But um it's It's been in 0:02:21.960 --> 0:02:24.160 the news a lot recently, and by recently I mean 0:02:24.200 --> 0:02:27.440 the summer of of two thousand eleven because of a 0:02:27.440 --> 0:02:29.359 couple of different things. First of all, a couple of 0:02:29.400 --> 0:02:31.519 years ago, you had um me it was only a 0:02:31.560 --> 0:02:34.560 year ago, but you had Mark Zuckerberg say that the 0:02:34.560 --> 0:02:39.760 the whole notion of privacy was falling out of social norms, 0:02:39.840 --> 0:02:44.800 meaning that people today don't value privacy or don't think 0:02:44.800 --> 0:02:48.200 of privacy is something that's important the way that generations 0:02:48.240 --> 0:02:53.160 earlier had, you know, thought of the subject. So uh 0:02:53.200 --> 0:02:56.840 that that actually kind of explains a lot about certain 0:02:56.919 --> 0:03:00.280 things that Facebook has done over the past, where you know, 0:03:00.320 --> 0:03:03.840 it's all about sharing information, particularly information about yourself and 0:03:03.880 --> 0:03:05.680 the things you like to do and the places you 0:03:05.760 --> 0:03:09.280 like to go. And then you know, the the argument 0:03:09.440 --> 0:03:12.560 I think someone at Facebook would make is that the 0:03:12.600 --> 0:03:15.040 more you share, the more you're going to get out 0:03:15.080 --> 0:03:18.760 of that service. So if you do not share a lot, 0:03:19.200 --> 0:03:21.600 you won't really benefit from the service the way you 0:03:21.639 --> 0:03:25.400 do if you are someone who shares lots of stuff. 0:03:25.680 --> 0:03:28.600 Although even that, you know, we could anyone could tell 0:03:28.680 --> 0:03:32.040 you if they have a friend who shares absolutely everything 0:03:32.080 --> 0:03:38.320 that that can get old too. Yes. Sorry, look, I 0:03:38.480 --> 0:03:42.760 thought it was a particularly interesting bowl of oatmeal, so 0:03:42.920 --> 0:03:46.320 I shared it. Well, it's always nice to share oatmeal. 0:03:47.000 --> 0:03:49.320 I don't know, But all right, anyway, we're getting off track, 0:03:49.880 --> 0:03:51.800 because I mean I just go back to the Oatmeal 0:03:51.840 --> 0:03:55.840 Party where Josh Clark did that well anyway, So so 0:03:57.120 --> 0:04:00.720 Facebook's approach is saying that anonymity and privacy really kind 0:04:00.720 --> 0:04:04.440 of those are old ideas that that we're slowly seeing 0:04:04.440 --> 0:04:06.800 phase out. And then the other thing that kind of 0:04:06.840 --> 0:04:11.240 brought this into attention was a Google launching Google Plus, 0:04:11.240 --> 0:04:13.320 and we did that episode on Google Plus, that epic 0:04:13.480 --> 0:04:17.279 Google Plus episode. One thing we didn't really talk about 0:04:17.320 --> 0:04:21.080 that much was that Google Plus. You know, in order 0:04:21.120 --> 0:04:22.680 to have a Google Plus profile, you have to have 0:04:22.720 --> 0:04:25.080 a Google profile. In order to have a Google profile, 0:04:25.120 --> 0:04:27.880 it has to be a Google profile that's public because 0:04:27.880 --> 0:04:32.120 they eliminated all private Google profiles, and you had to 0:04:32.200 --> 0:04:36.279 have a name associated with that profile, and it didn't 0:04:36.279 --> 0:04:39.200 have to necessarily be your legal name, but it didn't 0:04:39.200 --> 0:04:40.640 have to be the name that you go by the 0:04:40.680 --> 0:04:43.159 most frequently. And so you would you know, I have 0:04:43.200 --> 0:04:45.000 to put a first name in a last name and 0:04:45.040 --> 0:04:47.480 make it make it a legitimate name if it were 0:04:47.560 --> 0:04:51.640 something that was clearly a handle or a nickname or 0:04:51.920 --> 0:04:55.640 just unusual had some odd characters in it, like not 0:04:55.720 --> 0:04:59.599 like you know, Alex from Clockwork Orange odd characters, but 0:04:59.680 --> 0:05:04.240 like symbols like at symbols or hashtags or things like that. Um, 0:05:04.279 --> 0:05:08.040 that Google would flag it and then Google would suspend 0:05:08.080 --> 0:05:11.039 your Google Plus account as a darn good thing that 0:05:11.120 --> 0:05:13.760 Prince decided to go back to being prints. Yeah, well 0:05:13.839 --> 0:05:17.040 he the web's over compared, if you ask Prince. So 0:05:17.200 --> 0:05:25.120 it's immaterial for this discussion. Yeah, irregardless, Um supposedly supposedly, 0:05:25.600 --> 0:05:28.200 Uh yeah, anyway, if you if you put these these 0:05:29.360 --> 0:05:32.520 symbols into your name, or you had some other weird 0:05:32.680 --> 0:05:35.880 name going in there, Google might flag your account and 0:05:35.920 --> 0:05:40.120 suspend it. Uh. They then later on kind of adjusted 0:05:40.120 --> 0:05:41.359 that a little bit where they would give you a 0:05:41.400 --> 0:05:43.799 warning saying you need to go into your Google profile 0:05:43.800 --> 0:05:46.040 and put in your actual name, and you could add 0:05:46.080 --> 0:05:50.000 in nicknames and stuff in another field called other names, 0:05:50.040 --> 0:05:52.760 but that the name associated with your profile would be 0:05:52.800 --> 0:05:56.520 your real name. Now, that brought up some some questions 0:05:56.560 --> 0:05:59.560 among a lot of users, and it ranges through the 0:05:59.560 --> 0:06:02.360 whole actrum. You've got the spectrum that includes people who 0:06:02.360 --> 0:06:05.320 are you know the Their argument is that, hey, I 0:06:05.400 --> 0:06:10.640 have made a a name for myself under this persona. 0:06:11.520 --> 0:06:15.040 It's like bran Yeah, a brand exactly. It's like a brand. 0:06:15.120 --> 0:06:18.559 So um, the example I used in my blog post 0:06:18.680 --> 0:06:23.080 was Dr Kiki of Dr Kiki Science. Yeah, she's she's 0:06:23.120 --> 0:06:27.360 a scientist. Um uh, and she is known as Dr Kiki. 0:06:28.640 --> 0:06:32.120 Her first name is I believe Kirsten. But but you know, 0:06:32.240 --> 0:06:35.080 she that's not what everyone knows her as. So she 0:06:35.320 --> 0:06:40.360 created a Google profile using Dr Kiki and um uh, yes, 0:06:40.480 --> 0:06:43.520 Kirsten Sandford. That's her name, Dr Kirsten Sandford. So she 0:06:43.560 --> 0:06:46.039 went she goes as everyone knows her is Dr Kiki, 0:06:46.120 --> 0:06:48.920 So that's what she created a Google profile as. But 0:06:49.000 --> 0:06:52.280 she her Google Plus profile was suspended because it did 0:06:52.440 --> 0:06:56.520 it violated the rules that Google had set up. And 0:06:56.560 --> 0:07:00.240 Google's argument was that he wanted to create a social 0:07:00.320 --> 0:07:03.960 network that would let people connect with folks they know 0:07:04.080 --> 0:07:08.280 and folks they know of easily, and that that if 0:07:08.320 --> 0:07:11.120 you start putting in handles and things and you're cloaking 0:07:11.120 --> 0:07:15.119 your identity, that's kind of antithetical to what Google meant 0:07:15.320 --> 0:07:18.080 Google Plus two be. The problem is that's not the 0:07:18.120 --> 0:07:21.200 way people use the web. You know, people use the 0:07:21.200 --> 0:07:23.800 web in all sorts of different ways. There are people 0:07:23.840 --> 0:07:26.960 who will use their own names as their handles. For example, 0:07:27.080 --> 0:07:30.040 I'm one of those people. I use my own name 0:07:30.120 --> 0:07:34.400 as my handle pretty much everywhere. And uh, the reason 0:07:34.480 --> 0:07:37.240 for that is so that I keep myself accountable for 0:07:37.280 --> 0:07:41.120 the things I say. It's a personal choice. I don't 0:07:41.200 --> 0:07:44.880 judge anyone else who goes by a handle. I totally 0:07:44.960 --> 0:07:48.040 understand that, and I think anonymity is an interesting and 0:07:48.080 --> 0:07:51.880 important issue. I just, for myself choose to use my 0:07:51.920 --> 0:07:55.640 own name because one, uh, that's kind of my brand. 0:07:55.960 --> 0:07:58.600 It's my name at this point, if I had gone 0:07:58.600 --> 0:08:01.600 by some other weird whacking, might probably be using that everywhere. 0:08:02.240 --> 0:08:04.640 But to you know, it's just again, it just keeps 0:08:04.640 --> 0:08:07.400 me responsible for the things I say. I'm less likely 0:08:07.440 --> 0:08:11.880 to say something really offensive or outrageous or just pigheaded 0:08:12.360 --> 0:08:14.920 because it's attached to my name, and I'm not gonna 0:08:15.080 --> 0:08:18.360 go onto some forum and and tell off the person 0:08:18.360 --> 0:08:20.400 who posted above me that they're a complete jerk and 0:08:20.440 --> 0:08:23.600 an idiot. And you know, I'm I'm less likely to 0:08:23.640 --> 0:08:25.520 do that. I still do it, I just don't do 0:08:25.520 --> 0:08:27.560 it as frequently as I would if I had. You know, 0:08:28.120 --> 0:08:32.600 you know, hamster Man seventy three was my handle, and 0:08:32.640 --> 0:08:34.679 no one knew that that was me, but we all 0:08:34.720 --> 0:08:37.480 know now well, I don't post under that handle anymore. 0:08:39.400 --> 0:08:43.280 You won't find those YouTube comments coming from me anymore. Buster. Yea, 0:08:43.800 --> 0:08:47.640 well it's funny. Um, you need to it's weird to 0:08:47.640 --> 0:08:51.440 put this in perspective. So you know, to some degree, 0:08:52.200 --> 0:08:56.240 I think online Mark Zuckerberg has a point. We've gotten 0:08:56.240 --> 0:09:01.200 to the point where we're interested in social networking. Um. 0:09:01.240 --> 0:09:05.840 We have business profiles on LinkedIn dot com. We've got uh, Facebook, Twitter, 0:09:05.960 --> 0:09:10.480 Google Plus and all the others for our social fun 0:09:10.600 --> 0:09:13.440 you know, our our informal networking, in some case business 0:09:13.480 --> 0:09:19.480 networking too. Um and And it's hard. It's when you've 0:09:19.480 --> 0:09:22.120 gotten used to the idea of the right to privacy, 0:09:22.160 --> 0:09:24.600 which um, you know here in the United States we 0:09:24.640 --> 0:09:29.000 have a certain expectation of personal privacy um and not 0:09:29.160 --> 0:09:31.880 that's not necessarily true everywhere else in the world. But 0:09:32.200 --> 0:09:34.520 when you've established all these accounts and you say, no, 0:09:34.640 --> 0:09:38.040 I just want to be online and have my uh 0:09:38.080 --> 0:09:42.320 my ten family members and sixty friends and that's it. 0:09:42.440 --> 0:09:43.959 That's all I want on my account. I don't want 0:09:43.960 --> 0:09:45.960 everyone else to read my post. Why are you making 0:09:45.960 --> 0:09:50.480 them available? Um. The thing is, Mark has a point 0:09:50.520 --> 0:09:53.400 because if you you do have that right to privacy, 0:09:53.440 --> 0:09:56.200 but when you join Facebook, the point is to be 0:09:56.320 --> 0:10:00.240 social and you know, I don't want I'm of those 0:10:00.240 --> 0:10:03.480 people that would prefer to socialize with people I know 0:10:03.520 --> 0:10:06.640 in real life and not you know everybody online that 0:10:06.760 --> 0:10:10.559 I that I really don't know that well. But at 0:10:10.559 --> 0:10:13.480 the same time, you know, if if I joined Facebook 0:10:13.920 --> 0:10:16.760 and I don't have you know, I have to play 0:10:16.760 --> 0:10:19.520 the rules, by the rules of Facebook, and if Facebook 0:10:19.520 --> 0:10:22.960 says on Facebook, you don't have the right to privacy, 0:10:23.360 --> 0:10:26.040 and to the same extent, I mean, you're you're everyone 0:10:26.120 --> 0:10:27.760 can see you. Now. You don't have to publish your 0:10:27.760 --> 0:10:30.319 stuff so that the world can read every single post 0:10:30.320 --> 0:10:32.960 you write, but everybody's gonna be able to see that 0:10:32.960 --> 0:10:34.600 you have a profile. And that's just the way it 0:10:34.679 --> 0:10:37.800 is on Facebook, And um, you know, I I see 0:10:37.840 --> 0:10:40.319 the annoyance, but I don't see why people get so 0:10:40.520 --> 0:10:44.280 very angry simply because you've you're you're agreeing to the 0:10:44.400 --> 0:10:48.000 terms of service for joining those accounts. And that's one 0:10:48.000 --> 0:10:51.520 of the reasons I wasn't anxious to uh join Google 0:10:51.559 --> 0:10:53.480 Plus right away. It was because I realized that I 0:10:53.480 --> 0:10:55.840 was going to have to make my profile public and 0:10:55.920 --> 0:10:57.800 everybody was going to be able to see it was me, 0:10:57.920 --> 0:11:03.439 And um, you're allowed to use your nickname, because I mean, 0:11:03.440 --> 0:11:05.000 not only is that against the rules, but it also 0:11:05.000 --> 0:11:07.000 shows up against your account. So if I wanted to 0:11:07.000 --> 0:11:10.720 be Larry the Wonder Beagle, then all my email on 0:11:10.800 --> 0:11:13.120 Gmail comes from Larry the Wonder Beagle, and I don't 0:11:13.120 --> 0:11:14.719 want to do that because I keep in touch with you. 0:11:14.880 --> 0:11:17.880 You would essentially have to create a second Gmail account 0:11:17.960 --> 0:11:20.800 just for your Google Plus profile. In that case, what 0:11:20.960 --> 0:11:24.120 you could theoretically do, although you're again kind of skirting 0:11:24.160 --> 0:11:27.440 the rules there. Yeah, yeah, so I mean that's and 0:11:27.480 --> 0:11:29.240 it would be annoying because you'd always have to log 0:11:29.280 --> 0:11:31.400 out of one account and log into the other whenever 0:11:31.440 --> 0:11:34.840 you wanted to check your quote unquote real email. Yeah exactly. 0:11:35.520 --> 0:11:36.760 It's a it's a pain in the neck. But the 0:11:36.800 --> 0:11:40.000 thing is, and again, this has nothing to do with 0:11:40.040 --> 0:11:42.520 the actual law. This has to do with the terms 0:11:42.520 --> 0:11:45.200 of service of the website you're using, and it is. 0:11:45.240 --> 0:11:47.920 It is frustrating, I admit, And you know, I think 0:11:47.960 --> 0:11:49.760 I think where a lot of the concern comes from 0:11:49.880 --> 0:11:52.439 is not just like I think there are some people 0:11:52.440 --> 0:11:55.040 who who agree, like, all right, I get it. If 0:11:55.080 --> 0:11:58.040 I want to be on blah blah blah, I have 0:11:58.080 --> 0:12:00.480 to play by their rules. Yeah, I think there is 0:12:00.559 --> 0:12:06.080 that the approach to eliminating anonymity entirely. They're they're worried 0:12:06.080 --> 0:12:07.920 about that being more of a broad approach to the 0:12:08.000 --> 0:12:10.520 web in general. Yeah, and I worry about that too. Yes, 0:12:10.720 --> 0:12:12.840 that's something that I'm not interested because because that would 0:12:12.880 --> 0:12:17.559 be let's let's say that Twitter made that same same 0:12:17.600 --> 0:12:20.199 decision that your Twitter handle had to be your first 0:12:20.200 --> 0:12:22.920 and last name. Now for me, it happens to be that, 0:12:23.720 --> 0:12:26.840 but a shortened version of my first name because Jonathan 0:12:26.880 --> 0:12:31.200 Strickland does not fit as a full Twitter handle. Um, 0:12:31.360 --> 0:12:34.199 so you know, Johnny Cakes, that's me. No, it's not, 0:12:34.280 --> 0:12:38.000 It's not really me anyway, So cake cake, I prefer 0:12:38.080 --> 0:12:41.520 pie pie anyway. If Twitter did that, then you know, 0:12:41.640 --> 0:12:46.080 you think about that there there we've seen Twitter being 0:12:46.200 --> 0:12:51.720 used in things like a political revolutions, you know, political unrest, turmoil, riots, 0:12:51.760 --> 0:12:55.760 that kind of thing, protests, uh, situations where the people 0:12:55.760 --> 0:12:59.360 who are organizing it definitely would not want their their 0:12:59.640 --> 0:13:03.439 idea that he shared with the general public because it 0:13:03.480 --> 0:13:08.360 would put themselves in danger, physical danger, and it would 0:13:08.440 --> 0:13:12.280 it would help prevent them from doing the the political 0:13:12.360 --> 0:13:15.240 activist work they were trying to do, like if they 0:13:15.240 --> 0:13:17.280 were to post something and it was traced back to 0:13:17.320 --> 0:13:20.960 their identity, they could be you know, theoretically by by 0:13:20.960 --> 0:13:23.760 an oppressive government brought in. And then not only do 0:13:23.840 --> 0:13:26.480 you have a person brought in by the same government 0:13:26.480 --> 0:13:29.520 they were trying to protest, but whatever activities they were 0:13:29.559 --> 0:13:32.439 trying to organize have been, um, you know, have been 0:13:32.760 --> 0:13:39.040 somewhat well sidetracked, have been have been sabotaged exactly because 0:13:39.040 --> 0:13:42.800 you no longer have that anonymity. And so there is 0:13:42.840 --> 0:13:45.760 a definite place for anonymity on the web. So you 0:13:45.840 --> 0:13:48.600 here here, like, let's talk about some of the different 0:13:48.679 --> 0:13:52.319 arguments that people make for and against anonymity. Okay, so 0:13:52.440 --> 0:13:54.800 we've already covered one of them, which is that, you know, 0:13:54.840 --> 0:13:56.679 if you want to be able to connect with people, 0:13:56.720 --> 0:13:58.200 you need to be able to know who to look for. 0:13:58.280 --> 0:13:59.720 And it's kind of hard to look for someone if 0:13:59.760 --> 0:14:02.920 every one's using up fake names everywhere. So that's one 0:14:03.559 --> 0:14:08.880 argument against anonymity. Um another is another argument against anonymity 0:14:08.880 --> 0:14:13.280 is that, uh, making someone use their own name kind 0:14:13.280 --> 0:14:15.840 of the way I was explained my own personal approach, 0:14:16.160 --> 0:14:20.320 UH keep some somewhat accountable for their words and actions. 0:14:21.400 --> 0:14:24.560 So in other words, The idea is that if you 0:14:24.600 --> 0:14:28.040 make sure that people cannot be anonymous, you really cut 0:14:28.040 --> 0:14:31.880 back on trolling. That's that's ultimately what we get down to. 0:14:32.080 --> 0:14:35.400 So can you imagine what a place YouTube would be 0:14:35.520 --> 0:14:38.360 if everyone had to use their real names and like 0:14:38.600 --> 0:14:42.000 there was a way of really linking an account to 0:14:42.040 --> 0:14:45.200 an actual person as opposed to just a handle, because 0:14:45.240 --> 0:14:47.480 I mean, you look at some of the quotes on YouTube, 0:14:47.480 --> 0:14:51.600 and they are some of the meanest, nastiest, mean spirited 0:14:51.600 --> 0:14:55.440 stuff I've ever read anywhere, and just on a typical 0:14:55.600 --> 0:14:58.000 video even you know something that a video that has 0:14:58.480 --> 0:15:01.880 no objectionable material real in it, it's just silly, or 0:15:01.920 --> 0:15:04.680 it's or it's even you know, even if it's boring. 0:15:05.160 --> 0:15:09.120 Sometimes you get the nastiest responses. And so the argument 0:15:09.160 --> 0:15:10.840 is that, well, if you made sure that people could 0:15:10.840 --> 0:15:14.440 not be anonymous, couldn't hide behind a pseudonym or a handle, 0:15:15.240 --> 0:15:19.160 that they would be nicer. And that's probably true for 0:15:19.680 --> 0:15:22.000 most people, they would probably be nicer. I don't think 0:15:22.040 --> 0:15:25.000 that it would magically make the web a shiny, happy 0:15:25.080 --> 0:15:27.760 place and no one would ever disagree with anyone, and 0:15:27.800 --> 0:15:30.080 you would never have anyone call anyone else a hurtful 0:15:30.160 --> 0:15:34.640 name or anything that's naive that would still happen, but 0:15:34.840 --> 0:15:37.160 I think it would cut down quite a bit on 0:15:37.240 --> 0:15:41.240 the trollish behavior. But I don't know that the trade 0:15:41.240 --> 0:15:44.560 off is worth that, you know, So anyway, those are 0:15:44.600 --> 0:15:48.400 those are two arguments against anonymity. But one that we've 0:15:48.440 --> 0:15:51.240 mentioned already is what if you want to be able 0:15:51.320 --> 0:15:55.120 to protest something or to bring attention to an issue 0:15:55.640 --> 0:16:00.440 that could get yourself in trouble, um, just because of 0:16:00.440 --> 0:16:04.880 your circumstances. That's true, um, And there's a difference to 0:16:05.000 --> 0:16:07.520 I mean, we could take, uh, we could take specifically 0:16:07.560 --> 0:16:11.920 the the example of Google itself. So on the one hand, 0:16:11.920 --> 0:16:15.840 you've got Google Plus, which is a social networking service 0:16:16.320 --> 0:16:19.680 that is optional for you to join. You if you 0:16:19.800 --> 0:16:21.840 if you want to join the service. Currently as of 0:16:21.880 --> 0:16:24.440 the time we're recording this, you have to use your 0:16:24.480 --> 0:16:27.440 real name and that's up to you. You do not 0:16:27.560 --> 0:16:30.520 have to join Google Plus. Then you have Google street 0:16:30.560 --> 0:16:36.240 View on the other hand, and this um again, long 0:16:36.320 --> 0:16:38.880 term listeners will know that we've talked about this before 0:16:39.200 --> 0:16:42.360 on the on previous podcasts. So Google street View, the 0:16:42.440 --> 0:16:47.200 idea of being that Google is sending cars on driving 0:16:47.240 --> 0:16:51.600 around neighborhoods driving on city streets. Um. And basically they 0:16:51.640 --> 0:16:54.960 take pan panoramic photos of the streets so you can 0:16:55.000 --> 0:16:58.480 see I personally find it really helpful when I'm looking 0:16:58.520 --> 0:17:00.960 for a business that I've never seen before. I'm trying 0:17:01.000 --> 0:17:03.080 to get there and you can go look it up 0:17:03.120 --> 0:17:05.640 online and see a picture of what it looks like. Oh, 0:17:05.680 --> 0:17:07.800 it's the green building, and you can pan around and 0:17:07.800 --> 0:17:09.919 see what the surrounding buildings are and you you get 0:17:09.920 --> 0:17:13.760 an idea for the landmarks. Yes, it's it's it's really 0:17:13.800 --> 0:17:16.520 a neat idea. The concept on the table right there 0:17:16.960 --> 0:17:19.480 is a neat idea, especially when you apply to things 0:17:19.480 --> 0:17:21.359 like I want to take a virtual tour of a 0:17:21.400 --> 0:17:23.760 city I've never been in, and you could literally do 0:17:23.800 --> 0:17:25.560 that if you have a fast enough connection to the 0:17:25.560 --> 0:17:27.919 internet and a good processor, then yeah you can. You 0:17:27.960 --> 0:17:32.080 can you know, navigate through street view and go down 0:17:32.280 --> 0:17:35.600 streets in cities just as if you were there, um, 0:17:35.640 --> 0:17:38.439 without the like, you know, you can stroll down New 0:17:38.520 --> 0:17:42.159 York City at night without worrying about getting bugged. So 0:17:42.200 --> 0:17:44.399 I don't think would be at night, well no, but 0:17:44.440 --> 0:17:46.080 it would it would be kind of hard to see, 0:17:46.160 --> 0:17:49.080 but um, yeah, and there are. There are many funny 0:17:49.119 --> 0:17:52.520 stories about Google street View, the cameras getting knocked off 0:17:52.520 --> 0:17:56.080 by low bridges, and people doing crazy things. People hearing 0:17:56.119 --> 0:17:58.119 that street view was coming through, so they arrange for 0:17:58.200 --> 0:18:02.720 some sort of bizarre demonstration or sword fights, mooning, you know, 0:18:02.760 --> 0:18:05.320 all kinds of stuff. But the thing is to people 0:18:05.359 --> 0:18:10.680 complain that they're taking photos of their houses without any permission. 0:18:10.720 --> 0:18:13.840 It's an invasion of privacy. As the argument, yes, um, 0:18:13.920 --> 0:18:16.320 and so there you go. You you you know, suddenly 0:18:16.359 --> 0:18:20.200 your house is there and you can't opt out of it. Yeah, yeah, 0:18:20.320 --> 0:18:24.040 so you know. Plus there are many many phone directories 0:18:24.040 --> 0:18:29.280 with with information in there. Uh they scrape phone books 0:18:29.320 --> 0:18:31.439 and you know, their of course legitimate phone books as 0:18:31.440 --> 0:18:34.000 well phone directories online. So if you put two and 0:18:34.040 --> 0:18:36.639 two together, you can figure out where somebody lives and 0:18:36.680 --> 0:18:38.439 what their house looks like. Yeah. Now, if you've if 0:18:38.480 --> 0:18:41.840 you've managed to stay unlisted and everything, then there may 0:18:41.880 --> 0:18:44.480 not be a connection between you the person and your 0:18:44.960 --> 0:18:48.879 wherever you call home. So but for the majority of people, 0:18:48.920 --> 0:18:51.240 I think, yeah, you know, with a little snooping, you 0:18:51.240 --> 0:18:53.960 could easily figure out where someone lives. And then through 0:18:54.040 --> 0:18:56.280 street view you can see you can actually see their 0:18:56.320 --> 0:18:58.600 their house, which I mean, you know you can argue, 0:18:58.680 --> 0:19:02.600 well that let's let's uh potential thieves case the joint 0:19:02.640 --> 0:19:06.959 without ever leaving, um, leaving wherever they are. You know 0:19:07.000 --> 0:19:08.960 they can they can look it up and then get 0:19:08.960 --> 0:19:10.600 a real good view at least to the front of 0:19:10.640 --> 0:19:12.440 the house, maybe even the back of the house, depending 0:19:12.480 --> 0:19:16.120 on how your neighborhoods laid out. And you could use 0:19:16.160 --> 0:19:18.440 the satellite view in in one of the mapping services 0:19:18.520 --> 0:19:20.720 or in Google Earth to get an idea of the 0:19:20.760 --> 0:19:22.639 lay of the land. So it's yeah, it's one of 0:19:22.680 --> 0:19:25.040 those arguments where you make well, this this can make 0:19:25.280 --> 0:19:29.160 us less safe and and there that is a good 0:19:29.520 --> 0:19:33.680 argument for anonymity, saying that well, I understand that there 0:19:33.680 --> 0:19:37.280 are uses for this technology and that um that it 0:19:37.359 --> 0:19:39.960 can come in handy and it's a fun technology, but 0:19:40.000 --> 0:19:43.280 there are also some serious consequences or there can be 0:19:43.400 --> 0:19:48.399 serious consequences to enabling this technology and immediately opting everyone in. 0:19:48.520 --> 0:19:50.720 It's not like you had a choice as far as 0:19:50.720 --> 0:19:52.960 street view is concerned. I mean, there are some very 0:19:53.000 --> 0:19:57.639 famous cases of towns that the essentially told Google to 0:19:57.680 --> 0:20:01.520 go uh google themselves and get the heck out of Dodge, 0:20:01.720 --> 0:20:05.520 although Dodge was not one of those towns. M. Well, yeah, 0:20:05.520 --> 0:20:08.680 and some gated communities places like that. And course in 0:20:08.680 --> 0:20:12.080 in Europe, there have been many cases, um, in different 0:20:12.080 --> 0:20:15.680 countries in Europe where uh, you know, they they've taken 0:20:15.720 --> 0:20:17.600 Google to court and said, you do not have the 0:20:17.600 --> 0:20:21.000 authority to do this, um, you know, because it violates 0:20:21.040 --> 0:20:25.160 our country's privacy laws. So um, you know, it's it's 0:20:25.240 --> 0:20:27.800 it's difficult, you know, on on, but it's there is 0:20:28.040 --> 0:20:32.160 a definite difference in um, you know, things like being 0:20:32.400 --> 0:20:36.320 signing up to be unlisted from your phone company and 0:20:36.359 --> 0:20:40.800 deciding to opt out of social networking services versus um, 0:20:40.800 --> 0:20:43.719 you know, what other people post about you online. And 0:20:43.760 --> 0:20:47.160 that's another thing too. You you can't control what other 0:20:47.200 --> 0:20:50.040 people do, um not yet, but I'm working on it. 0:20:51.200 --> 0:20:53.480 Why That's why I brought a crown in today. Yeah 0:20:53.640 --> 0:20:58.720 he did, right on the table right between us, right now. UM. 0:20:58.760 --> 0:21:02.560 But yeah, I mean, you know, I've had pictures tagged 0:21:03.800 --> 0:21:07.280 on Facebook, um and you know, with my name on them, 0:21:07.320 --> 0:21:09.600 and I've kind to the point where I try to 0:21:09.680 --> 0:21:11.600 avoid having that done and I go and remove the 0:21:11.640 --> 0:21:16.520 tags simply because I'm less comfortable being public than other people, 0:21:17.080 --> 0:21:19.600 but I can't. I think there's this, Well I'm pretty 0:21:19.600 --> 0:21:22.600 sure actually that Facebook has in its privacy settings a 0:21:22.600 --> 0:21:25.120 setting where you can go in and make sure that 0:21:25.280 --> 0:21:27.199 if someone wants to tag you in a photo, that 0:21:27.400 --> 0:21:30.399 it has that requests your permission before the tag goes public. 0:21:30.440 --> 0:21:33.600 So you can actually tweet that setting, although like all 0:21:33.760 --> 0:21:37.000 Facebook privacy settings, it's not the easiest thing to find. 0:21:37.040 --> 0:21:39.119 You have to kind of do a little digging. Um. 0:21:39.200 --> 0:21:41.320 Google Plus is is kind of the same way. In 0:21:41.359 --> 0:21:44.639 a sense, it's a lot easier to control who sees 0:21:44.680 --> 0:21:47.280 your information when you use Google Plus because you can 0:21:47.320 --> 0:21:51.439 just at every stage you can determine which bits of 0:21:51.480 --> 0:21:54.760 information are visible to others and which ones aren't and 0:21:54.880 --> 0:21:58.119 uh and you can specify you know, which users can 0:21:58.119 --> 0:22:01.399 see it, like a circle or just a specific user. 0:22:02.080 --> 0:22:04.200 But even so, it's it's still a lot of stuff 0:22:04.200 --> 0:22:10.520 to wade through, right, So another thing about well, another 0:22:10.600 --> 0:22:14.200 argument you can make against anonymity. We we've already touched 0:22:14.200 --> 0:22:16.080 on this about the trolling, but if you really want 0:22:16.119 --> 0:22:18.359