Speaker 1: Hey, guys, Saga and Crystal here.
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Speaker 3: Good morning, and welcome to Breaking Points. I was last week.
Speaker 4: Last week.
Speaker 5: It was so sad without your end, but we all
Speaker 5: managed to get through. I think more people are curious
Speaker 5: how you were last week.
Speaker 3: Was good time, Good time was had.
Speaker 6: Apparently some Epstein's news dropped while I was gone here.
Speaker 5: Ryan was in Cancun at Fish shows as the Epstein
Speaker 5: files were being released.
Speaker 4: I felt bad texting you, Oh, I.
Speaker 3: Was loving it.
Speaker 6: I was loving it. It added to it, it did, Yeah,
Speaker 6: I mean, because this is.
Speaker 5: It's not a tropical vacation without learn for people who
Speaker 5: are genuinely curious about how the world works and who
Speaker 5: the people are who run this world.
Speaker 3: This is like, this is the moment that the window
Speaker 3: is actually open.
Speaker 4: It's so unbelievable.
Speaker 6: And that's and Mac was just telling us that we've
Speaker 6: had hundreds of new premium subscribers over the last couple
Speaker 6: of days, and I think that's because we've been covering
Speaker 6: this honestly from the beginning, and it's such a disorienting
Speaker 6: mess of a story because there's so much active disinformation
Speaker 6: that gets pumped out into it. Yes, and you want
Speaker 6: to know what's true, what's not, what matters, what doesn't,
Speaker 6: and like we're trying to actually be honest about it
Speaker 6: not and we don't care who it offends.
Speaker 5: Right, not trying to smooth the edges of the story
Speaker 5: out or anything like that. So you can get a
Speaker 5: pretty subscription at Breakingpoints dot Com.
Speaker 4: Appreciate it. If you do, you can go sign up there.
Speaker 5: Otherwise, just follow us, you know, subscribe on YouTube to
Speaker 5: get us in your feed and wherever you get your podcasts.
Speaker 5: It's very helpful. But this has been to your point
Speaker 5: of watershed. We yeah, I mean it's been like we've
Speaker 5: got the drip drip coming out for a couple of
Speaker 5: years now, but nothing like the geyser of the last
Speaker 5: several days.
Speaker 6: And while we're on the subject of gratitude for viewers
Speaker 6: who are making this possible, I was thinking, you know,
Speaker 6: Mexico watching fish, it's a good time for contemplation, and
Speaker 6: I was thinking about how last year we didn't go
Speaker 6: to the show because my wife had just gotten out
Speaker 6: of the hospital with complications from chemo, which is damn
Speaker 6: near killed her. And to think that now, like a
Speaker 6: year later, we're back on the beach and like celebrating it,
Speaker 6: and like throughout that whole thing, you guys were so
Speaker 6: cool about like missing shows, being late like that was
Speaker 6: that was really that was really moving. So I just
Speaker 6: really appreciate that and also my mother in law to
Speaker 6: like watch the kids the whole time.
Speaker 3: Big thank you to Virginia.
Speaker 6: That's so so And now I'm recharged ready to go
Speaker 6: get these Epstein goons.
Speaker 4: So in a way, it was great timing perfect. You
Speaker 4: were recharging your battery just as the world needed our
Speaker 4: super soldier Ryan grim Most.
Speaker 5: Yeah, well, we have said we have a lot to
Speaker 5: get through today. We're going to start actually with Epstein
Speaker 5: because the drip drip is continuing. But also what's important
Speaker 5: is putting the pieces of the puzzle together, and there
Speaker 5: are a few people.
Speaker 4: Better Quip to do that than Ryan Grimm. So we're
Speaker 4: going to.
Speaker 3: Start loving reporting on this.
Speaker 6: I've been addicted, you've been You've been going through it
Speaker 6: like a pro.
Speaker 4: It's addicting.
Speaker 5: I mean, the Epstein library is addicting on the DOJ's website,
Speaker 5: which is a weird thing. You don't not many people
Speaker 5: get addicted to the DOJ's website.
Speaker 3: But you can also now go through jmail.
Speaker 6: We have all of the latest volume eleven up on
Speaker 6: Gmail dot world, which is project with drop side.
Speaker 4: So I find that even more addicting because it's like
Speaker 4: being in the sims.
Speaker 6: Right and you can and you can then like see
Speaker 6: the ones that came right before it, and you can
Speaker 6: put it in time and yes, the articles it links
Speaker 6: to links to the articles.
Speaker 5: It's yeah, it's a technological feat. It's very very cool. Yeah,
Speaker 5: so folks should also go there.
Speaker 6: If we put we put in for a pulletzer like
Speaker 6: they wanted to do it. I was like, you want
Speaker 6: to understand that the pulitzer is housed in Columbia, right, Like, we're.
Speaker 3: Not getting a pullet. We deserve one. Yes, you like,
Speaker 3: if it was a fair fight, we would get one. Yeah.
Speaker 6: It's the most innovative journalistic project I think ever on
Speaker 6: a massive data set. Uh, and it's the biggest story
Speaker 6: in the world, so it deserves it. I was like,
Speaker 6: I'm not sure if you followed the news around Columbia
Speaker 6: University lately.
Speaker 7: It's not happening.
Speaker 3: Don't think they're doing it in Epstein Pulleitzer.
Speaker 5: No, not to drop side, definitely, not to drop side.
Speaker 3: It's free to apply. I was like, look done hard
Speaker 3: to apply.
Speaker 5: Yeah, no, that's true. A lot of new details to
Speaker 5: go through. So we'll start with We're then going to
Speaker 5: have Van Lathan join us once again because Renee Goods
Speaker 5: family testified in Curing yesterday.
Speaker 4: We have clips from that.
Speaker 5: We're going to talk about it with Van and just
Speaker 5: Democrats on the ending of the guard. So the government
Speaker 5: shutdown technically ended yesterday. The quote unquote partial government shutdown
Speaker 5: technically ended yesterday.
Speaker 4: You probably didn't notice. Nobody noticed even in DC, nobody noticed.
Speaker 3: Cruise right through customs yep.
Speaker 4: Oh good point.
Speaker 5: Yeah, So we will be talking to Van about DEM's
Speaker 5: decision when it came to reopening the government, having he
Speaker 5: joined with Republicans that sort of thing.
Speaker 4: And the United States shot down in Iranian drone.
Speaker 5: Yesterday, So we're going to bring the latest on that
Speaker 5: story as well. Elon Musk's X offices are being raided
Speaker 5: in Paris. Musk is now in a war of words
Speaker 5: with Spain and this is related to teen social media bans,
Speaker 5: but the raid is also related to some of those
Speaker 5: horrible images that were being created on X not You probably.
Speaker 6: Remember when when Grock went completely Yeah, yep, groc did
Speaker 6: his thing.
Speaker 5: We have a wild clip of Chuck Schumer about Israel,
Speaker 5: and Gaza will break down the latest new drop site
Speaker 5: reporting to talk about there, and then the Blowbok the
Speaker 5: blowback guys are here to talk about Cuba.
Speaker 3: They were just in Cuba. Yeah.
Speaker 6: Uh, Trump just put out an executive order declaring Cuba
Speaker 6: to be like the worst of the worst of the worst.
Speaker 4: Did that happen while they were there?
Speaker 3: They did?
Speaker 6: And uh, he's pressuring Mexico not to sell oil to
Speaker 6: Cuba because somehow it is the business of the United
Speaker 6: States who Mexico sells oil to and who Cuba buys
Speaker 6: it from uh. They're trying to completely.
Speaker 3: Send Cuba back to the seventeenth century.
Speaker 6: So we're going to talk to Brendan and know about
Speaker 6: what conditions are.
Speaker 3: Like there and what the what the politics are. Yeah,
Speaker 3: now and then and.
Speaker 6: Negotiations between the US and Iran, which most people suspect
Speaker 6: the US is just buying so they can get all
Speaker 6: their assets in place and then launch an attack. But
Speaker 6: they have moved to Oman at the request of Iran.
Speaker 6: They moved from Turkey to Oman. We might even get
Speaker 6: Kushner involved in them. So we'll talk about them.
Speaker 5: Yeah, lots to go through, all right, Let's start then
Speaker 5: with Jeffrey Epstein. Melinda Gates was on NPR and asked
Speaker 5: the most uncomfortable question anyone could ever ask an ex
Speaker 5: wife you.
Speaker 6: Married one that an ex wife is probably not that
Speaker 6: unhappy to answer.
Speaker 5: It's a little bit better than being Bill Gates's current wife,
Speaker 5: as she basically says in the clip. She's asked about
Speaker 5: the detailed Crystal and saga covered where in the files.
Speaker 5: This was in an Epstein draft to himself. Those drafts
Speaker 5: are a very bizarre hot to send. Yeah, hot, too
Speaker 5: hot for send, But it was the drafts are a
Speaker 5: very strange window into Jeffrey Epstein's mind. And in a
Speaker 5: draft you may remember, he mentioned Bill Gates, a Russian prostitute,
Speaker 5: and procuring four Bill Gates the type of medication he
Speaker 5: would need to slip into Melinda's diet somewhere or another
Speaker 5: to prevent her from getting an STD. Yeah, so Melinda
Speaker 5: Gates was asked about this, let's roll the club.
Speaker 8: I think we're having a reckoning as a society, right,
Speaker 8: No girl, no girl should ever be put in the
Speaker 8: situation that they were put in by Epstein and whatever
Speaker 8: was going on with all of the various people around him.
Speaker 8: No girl, I mean, it's just it's beyond heartbreaking, right.
Speaker 8: I remember being those ages those girls were. I remember
Speaker 8: my daughter's being those ages. Right. So for me, it's
Speaker 8: personally hard whenever those details come up, right because brings
Speaker 8: back memories of some very very painful times in my marriage.
Speaker 8: But I have moved on from that. I purposely pushed
Speaker 8: it away and I moved on. I'm in a really unexpected,
Speaker 8: beautiful place in my life. So whatever questions remain there
Speaker 8: of what I don't can't even begin to know all
Speaker 8: of it. Those questions are for those people and form
Speaker 8: even my ex husband. They need to answer to those things,
Speaker 8: not me well, and I am so happy to be
Speaker 8: away from all the muck.
Speaker 9: The emails in the files suggest that Bill Gates had
Speaker 9: additional affairs, and that he tried to get medication to
Speaker 9: treat a sexually transmitted infection, and that he was going
Speaker 9: to give you the medicine without you knowing. His representative
Speaker 9: has said all of this is false. It is not
Speaker 9: on you to have to respond to the details of
Speaker 9: that alleged behavior. But I wonder what your dominant emotion
Speaker 9: is when you read these news articles with these details.
Speaker 8: Sad just unbelievable sadness. Unbelievable sadness. Right, and again I'm
Speaker 8: able to take my own sadness and look at those
Speaker 8: young girls and say, my god, how did they have
Speaker 8: How did that happen to those girls?
Speaker 10: Right?
Speaker 8: And so for me, it's just sadness, sadness. For you know,
Speaker 8: I've left, I had, I left my marriage, I had
Speaker 8: to leave my marriage. I wanted to leave my marriage.
Speaker 4: I had to leave the.
Speaker 8: Fact I felt I needed to eventually leave the foundation.
Speaker 5: So it's just sad and ren that's pretty close. To
Speaker 5: confirmation from me Linda Gates. The divorce itself was related
Speaker 5: to the Epstein allegations with Bill Gates.
Speaker 4: And they're not allegations.
Speaker 5: I mean, it's the confirmed relationship between Bill Gates and
Speaker 5: Jeffrey Epstein. Obviously there are all kinds of different allegations
Speaker 5: that circulate around that, but it's not an allegation that
Speaker 5: they that they had a significant relationship. I'm not insignificant relationship.
Speaker 5: And in that clip, the way, the question was asked
Speaker 5: by NPR, what is your dominant emotion when you hear that?
Speaker 5: As opposed to did your ex husband secretly drug you too?
Speaker 4: Out of love?
Speaker 3: Of course she wouldn't know.
Speaker 4: I guess she wouldn't. But what is your dominant emotion
Speaker 4: when you hear that clip?
Speaker 3: Maybe sad too? I'm in anger? Like what what is comebag?
Speaker 4: I know?
Speaker 6: Yeah, and you know she has said that she told
Speaker 6: him this. By the way, this guy is a creep,
Speaker 6: so like she didn't see him, you know, doing whatever
Speaker 6: the satanic stuff they're doing, but being around him, she
Speaker 6: was like, he's a creep. You should not be around him.
Speaker 6: And if you're keeping around him, like this is not
Speaker 6: going to work. And it's indicative of your character as well.
Speaker 6: She was dead on. From other people who have met him,
Speaker 6: I've gotten people have said the same thing that like
Speaker 6: your creep dar like just went up in immediately, and
Speaker 6: that goes sadly to the next guy we got to
Speaker 6: talk about. We can put up c three here, one
Speaker 6: of the for a certain subset of like gen X,
Speaker 6: particular left wing people. This one has been just a
Speaker 6: body blow.
Speaker 4: The Woodstock ninety nine crowd.
Speaker 6: Yeah, put up if you put up a three, and
Speaker 6: before that, you know everybody everybody older than that too, Yeah,
Speaker 6: put up a three. So this is an email and
Speaker 6: people have tried to do some some cope around it, saying, well,
Speaker 6: it's not from Noam Chomsky's email, so it's maybe it's
Speaker 6: not him, and basically what he what?
Speaker 3: What?
Speaker 6: The one, the one that's circulating comes from one that
Speaker 6: Nome did send directly to Jeffrey Epstein, and Epstein took
Speaker 6: out some personal stuff in it and then sent it
Speaker 6: to another friend saying this is this is the advice
Speaker 6: that I got from Nome.
Speaker 3: Now the personal.
Speaker 6: Stuff I think actually plays into this, and maybe we
Speaker 6: can have glenn On and we can talk about this.
Speaker 3: But let's we can move on from that for now.
Speaker 6: But basically what he tells Epstein says, I'm getting all
Speaker 6: of his terrible press for all of these women accusing
Speaker 6: me of abusing them.
Speaker 3: What should you know? What should I do? And this
Speaker 3: is this is twenty nineteen.
Speaker 6: This is deep into me too, and it's I believe
Speaker 6: this is long after the Miami Herald has done the
Speaker 6: investigation into the.
Speaker 3: Way that.
Speaker 6: What he did in Florida was way worse than he
Speaker 6: ended up getting charged with, because what he did was
Speaker 6: extremely clever for his own rehabilitation. There were dozens of,
Speaker 6: as we've reported, dozens of victims that they could have
Speaker 6: chosen to charge him with. Yes, some as low as
Speaker 6: like fourteen. He got them to make the one charge
Speaker 6: somebody who was seventeen, which was very smart on his
Speaker 6: part because what did he immediately start doing. It was
Speaker 6: a prostitution situation. She told me she was eighteen. Turns
Speaker 6: out she was seventeen and a half, and so many
Speaker 6: people in the elite world were willing to be like,
Speaker 6: you know what, hey, an age of consents at sixteen
Speaker 6: in some states and so and also he hangs out
Speaker 6: with the Secretary of State and former presidents and he's
Speaker 6: on the board of this and that, and he's a billionaire.
Speaker 6: Sure it's fine. But by twenty nineteen, so even if
Speaker 6: you like allow for that that cleverness that he was
Speaker 6: able to pull off with the cost in and the
Speaker 6: Bush administration, by twenty nineteen people knew the contours of
Speaker 6: that deal and the context of it. And so what
Speaker 6: Noam Chelnsey basically tells him is do not respond it all. Like,
Speaker 6: if you respond at all, it's just going to give
Speaker 6: the vultures. He says, you know what the vultures dearly
Speaker 6: want is a public response, which then provides a public
Speaker 6: opening for an onslaught of venomous attacks, many from just
Speaker 6: publicity seekers and cranks of all sort. And he goes
Speaker 6: on and on and so to see, because you know,
Speaker 6: some of us had our cope was Chompsky responds to
Speaker 6: everybody he has, He emails Everybody'll like, he'll speak wherever,
Speaker 6: He'll take any interview request. He has this voracious curiosity
Speaker 6: about humanity. Epstein was funding MIT. Obviously, Chompsky wants to
Speaker 6: do what he can to like get funding from my
Speaker 6: t so you could like you can get there and
Speaker 6: be like, look, but to see the level of emotion
Speaker 6: that he had in his relationship with Epstein, knowing that
Speaker 6: so many other people who met him or like, this
Speaker 6: guy's creep. It's uh sitting. It doesn't mean that he
Speaker 6: participated in any of the any of the sordid stuff,
Speaker 6: which and I've been consistent on that, Like people want
Speaker 6: to cancel every single person who's on an email with Epstein,
Speaker 6: but I don't think that's fair.
Speaker 3: He emailed thousands of people.
Speaker 6: The people that need to be face accountability and shame
Speaker 6: are the ones that participated, knew about and didn't say
Speaker 6: anything or knew about and participated in what he was doing.
Speaker 3: We know, at least Chomsky had a.
Speaker 6: Very close relationship with him, and we know that he
Speaker 6: was a creep and that it was easy to tell that,
Speaker 6: and we know that he's telling him, he's guiding him
Speaker 6: how to overcome this.
Speaker 3: Like wall of allegations.
Speaker 5: It's rather odd to see deference given to a billionaire
Speaker 5: supporter of the global intelligence state as well. Right, So,
Speaker 5: like it's one thing if Epstein had been a sort
Speaker 5: of left aligned billionaire and I mean and I don't
Speaker 5: mean Democrat, like obviously he was a dem donor and
Speaker 5: he was close.
Speaker 3: With the labor wing of Israel.
Speaker 4: Yeah, we can put a two up on the screen. Yeah,
Speaker 4: labor wave of Israel.
Speaker 5: But a two is the news yesterday from the House side,
Speaker 5: the Clintons have broken an agreement to be questioned on
Speaker 5: camera to avoid those contempt of Congress charges that it
Speaker 5: looked like they were barreling head on into.
Speaker 4: Just a couple of weeks ago, and they sent.
Speaker 5: That letter and said, no, this is all We're not
Speaker 5: doing it. They're not going to pull Steve Bannon and
Speaker 5: go to prison for defying the subpoena. They're not going
Speaker 5: to be on camera. But that's a reminder that again
Speaker 5: it's why of all of all the billionaires who have
Speaker 5: gnom Chomsky's deference and trust and support.
Speaker 4: Epstein's a non choice, but the worst one. It's a
Speaker 4: non choice, like who else you got?
Speaker 3: It's going to be worse than that.
Speaker 4: It's a weird one.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and it gives throwing it to rail the entire show.
Speaker 6: Chomsky was a an anarchist, and in the time that
Speaker 6: I was coming up, actual socialism had been somewhat significantly
Speaker 6: discredited on the left because of the collapse of the
Speaker 6: Soviet Union and a lot of like American The American
Speaker 6: idea in the late eighties nineties about communism was not
Speaker 6: that it was this bulwark against American imperialism and like
Speaker 6: an and a like vehicle for the rise of the
Speaker 6: working class. It was like this was a sclerotic, authoritarian thing,
Speaker 6: and that gave purchase to anarchism to really take hold
Speaker 6: in like the nineties and early two thousands as an
Speaker 6: alternative that radicals could glom onto. And you always had
Speaker 6: the socialists and communists saying that's fake, that's just that's
Speaker 6: just gloss over liberalism. And it allows them to say
Speaker 6: I told you so, because the answer to how could
Speaker 6: he align himself with somebody like this would be so interesting? Well,
Speaker 6: it's actually it really was just glossed over liberalism.
Speaker 4: That's so interesting. A four. Let's put a four up
Speaker 4: on the screen.
Speaker 5: This is an Epstein email to Peter Teal where Ryan
Speaker 5: This gets into a lot of the drop site reporting here. Epstein,
Speaker 5: February twenty eight, twenty sixteen. As you probably know, this
Speaker 5: is to Peter Teal, I represent the Ross Childs. I
Speaker 5: was hoping to figure out a way for the bank
Speaker 5: that has one hundred and sixty b and management can
Speaker 5: do something in tech best client lists in the world,
Speaker 5: prehistoric products.
Speaker 4: It can wait. Good luck in China.
Speaker 5: This is like a poem, like a sick pome. I'll
Speaker 5: be in Europe again twenty twenty eight, then island. So
Speaker 5: if you want to come around the world going west dot,
Speaker 5: come to the island dot. Or if you would like
Speaker 5: to meet in Saudi at the end of the month
Speaker 5: question mark and then Teal says, certainly, not in Saudi.
Speaker 4: I think I will would the Middle East for the
Speaker 4: next decade or so.
Speaker 5: Should be back on East Coast in late April May
Speaker 5: sometime in NYC or on island.
Speaker 4: Then dot dot dot.
Speaker 5: Lovely they have us hanging here in suspense. But Ryan
Speaker 5: Dropsite has done a deep investigation into the Epstein Rothschild's connection.
Speaker 3: Right yeah, so people can go read that.
Speaker 6: That's Arianda Rothschild, who herself is a fascinating character because
Speaker 6: she's not a Rothschild, just from Central America, married into
Speaker 6: the family and then became the first kind of married
Speaker 6: in person to run the bank. And she developed a
Speaker 6: very close relationship with Epstein, which she denied, but which
Speaker 6: our original.
Speaker 3: Emails showed not true at all.
Speaker 6: This further tightens it and shows that he was using
Speaker 6: his linkage with her and the bank to try to
Speaker 6: appeal to Teal.
Speaker 3: Here that's twenty fifteen.
Speaker 6: One thing I was proud of from this weekend that
Speaker 6: I had a nice scoop before we hit the tarmac,
Speaker 6: which was we found this three and a half hour
Speaker 6: conversation between sin Ahood Barack and Laurence Summers that was
Speaker 6: huge and pulled a piece out of it where he
Speaker 6: is telling ad Barack, who's still Minister of Defense. So
Speaker 6: this was February of twenty thirteen. He didn't leave the
Speaker 6: ministry until March of twenty thirteen. But so he's plotting,
Speaker 6: like what his next move is going to be, and
Speaker 6: Epstein is like, you should be on the board of
Speaker 6: this company called Palanteer.
Speaker 3: He spells it for him, incorrectly, spells it incorrectly.
Speaker 4: It's like traitors where they write the names. And then
Speaker 4: that's all I could think of it.
Speaker 3: And then Barack spells it back to make sure he's
Speaker 3: got it.
Speaker 6: Right, and gets it right no and yes, yes, even
Speaker 6: though it's been way off when Epstein spelled it and
Speaker 6: then they asked him to spell Teal. He gets that wrong.
Speaker 6: At one point Andres and Horowitz he gets that wrong. Meanwhile,
Speaker 6: but he's Meanwhile, Sommers is there and he tells that
Speaker 6: He's like, who's Andres and Horowitz. He's like, oh, Larry's
Speaker 6: an advised with him. He gets a million dollars a
Speaker 6: year from them just to give them advice. Larry can't
Speaker 6: even be like, I'll be spelled it wrong. So after
Speaker 6: that Teal Epstein invests heavily in Peter Teal's companies. Twenty
Speaker 6: twenty four, Palenteer and Israel strike up strategic agreement. Trump
Speaker 6: basically has a strategic agreement with Palenteer. Now, so this
Speaker 6: is interesting to see the kernels of this, this relationship
Speaker 6: starting to bloom.
Speaker 5: And from all of the reporting you've done on Ahood Barack,
Speaker 5: what then, big picture geopolitical significance would you or how
Speaker 5: would you describe the relationship in that context? What does
Speaker 5: it mean that they were forming that bond at that time?
Speaker 6: Ahu Barack played a well he goes back to Iran contract. Yeah,
Speaker 6: as you're learning in this book that and when are
Speaker 6: both reading now on Profits of War by Ari Ben Minsh.
Speaker 6: Barack comes up there in a bunch, but so he
Speaker 6: goes back to early which Epstein was also involved in,
Speaker 6: but after he leaves office and twenty thirteen he tries
Speaker 6: to come back. In twenty eighteen nineteen Epstein dying, I
Speaker 6: think the rails helped to derail has come back into politics.
Speaker 6: He played a central role in the creation or the
Speaker 6: advent and the expansion of Israel's cyber weapons in cybersecurity industry.
Speaker 6: Barack is on all of these keyboards. It became his thing,
Speaker 6: and it was Epstein who guided him toward this thing
Speaker 6: and telling him like, these people like Teal and these
Speaker 6: other these are the this is the future, and you
Speaker 6: need to be a major part of it, and you
Speaker 6: can open the doors. You can then be the one
Speaker 6: that can sell you know, you can build relationships with
Speaker 6: African countries, with Asian countries around the world to help
Speaker 6: these Israeli companies get in. And because Barack had been
Speaker 6: at the center of Israeli intelligence for so long, he
Speaker 6: had those relationships. So Epstein played a central role in
Speaker 6: the expansion of the surveillance state, global surveillance state that
Speaker 6: we have today and that continues to expand.
Speaker 5: So this is one of the things that I've been
Speaker 5: going through the last like forty eight hours is mentioned
Speaker 5: in the files of the NSSA. And this is really
Speaker 5: interesting actually in the bigger contexts that you just mentioned.
Speaker 5: Epstein was obsessed with the idea that you can use
Speaker 5: NSA style decryption on human cells, and so he was
Speaker 5: engaged in this project. And maybe we can talk about
Speaker 5: this next week or something. But where he's trying, he's
Speaker 5: asking people to hook him up with Israeli hackers. I'm
Speaker 5: looking at one email right now to this guy who's
Speaker 5: at the Gates Foundation at the time, Boris Nikolic, who says,
Speaker 5: Jeffrey Epstein says, let's think up NSSA types for Washington meeting.
Speaker 5: All these mentions, where do you have contacts at NSA?
Speaker 5: Can you find me the best codebreaker NSSAY type. I mean,
Speaker 5: it's just like over and over again. And that's really
Speaker 5: interesting that he was helping a Hubarak build the Israeli
Speaker 5: surveillance state and then looking to mine codebreakers at the
Speaker 5: American surveillance state for his science.
Speaker 4: Like he had these what's the right We're like these
Speaker 4: almost like millenarian ideas about technology, like he can bring about.
Speaker 6: Right, and unusually he brought it about. I've seen a
Speaker 6: lot of people who've watched his interview with either listen
Speaker 6: to that conversation or they watch his interview with Bannon
Speaker 6: and they're like, Oh, this guy is just this owner
Speaker 6: who's just like high flutint and ideas, but he's actually
Speaker 6: a dummy. And I would just strongly encourage people to
Speaker 6: give that analysis a second thought. This guy, this is
Speaker 6: not a dummy. This is a guy who can explain
Speaker 6: and understand extraordinarily. He can take extraordinary complex systems, whether
Speaker 6: it's global finance, global politics, science and medicine, surveillance, global surveillance,
Speaker 6: he can he can understand them intuitively and then he
Speaker 6: can explain them in a way that allows you to
Speaker 6: understand them. That is an extremely rare quality in somebody
Speaker 6: that is not a dummy, that is that is not
Speaker 6: somebody just sitting around pontificating. And man's plaining like, don't
Speaker 6: under don't underestimate this guy.
Speaker 3: That's what I would say.
Speaker 4: Well, one person who was not charmed by Jeffrey Epstein
Speaker 4: is Norman Finkelstein.
Speaker 5: Let's put this one up a five. Oh my gosh, Ryan,
Speaker 5: this is a great email.
Speaker 3: This is fun. So yeah, what's so the context here?
Speaker 6: You've got some reporters who are kind of reaching out
Speaker 6: for comment right about Dershowitz and and Epstein. Norman Norman
Speaker 6: Finkelstein twenty fifteen responds, My guess is, if Epstein put
Speaker 6: your daughter at age fifteen in such a position, you
Speaker 6: wouldn't publicly describe him as a quote friend and person
Speaker 6: of quote integrity. In fact, I would hope that you'd
Speaker 6: promptly throttle both Epstein and Dershowitz.
Speaker 5: Epstein is c seed on this email, by the way, Yes,
Speaker 5: and probably I was just going to say, yeah, I
Speaker 5: bet Dershwitz is one of the redacted names.
Speaker 6: We had Dershwitz on the program a couple of years ago,
Speaker 6: before Rising Rising, and I remember before Finkelstein was so
Speaker 6: the celebrity he rightfully is today. I asked him about
Speaker 6: his The context for this is Dershwitz basically destroyed Finkelstein's
Speaker 6: academic career because he didn't like a review that Finkelstein
Speaker 6: wrote of dershwitz book.
Speaker 4: This is another piece of drop site.
Speaker 6: Reporting well that that was actually that was about the
Speaker 6: Israel lobby merchant, that Epstein and Dershwitz both collaborated to
Speaker 6: try to undermine that the book the Israel lobby with
Speaker 6: Meerscheimer and Walt.
Speaker 4: They probably did the same thing with Singlestein.
Speaker 3: Too well, absolutely, I.
Speaker 4: Am collaborating behind the scenes.
Speaker 6: Was Epstein like involved with going after Finglestein like they
Speaker 6: could like probably yes, Oh the other fun thing, we
Speaker 6: don't have him here. Epstein and Woody Allen hated Alan
Speaker 6: Dershowitz so much that, which is the funniest.
Speaker 4: The girls were gossiping behind his back.
Speaker 6: It's the funniest ending to this that Alan Dershwitz has
Speaker 6: dragged his.
Speaker 3: Own meager reputation through the mud.
Speaker 6: Do defend Woody Allen and Jeffrey Epstein to the bitter end?
Speaker 6: And now to find out they despised the guy. They
Speaker 6: thought he was full of himself the worst. They call
Speaker 6: him a completely shameless name dropper.
Speaker 3: Yea, Like they just go in on him.
Speaker 4: Especially Woody Allen, I mean, and just.
Speaker 3: His wife, because sometimes his wife is writing from what
Speaker 3: he writing for him either one.
Speaker 5: And sometimes she's just emailing as well. It's just a
Speaker 5: lot of sunny and woody in these emails.
Speaker 6: But the and Epstein says to whatdy Allan, No, no,
Speaker 6: he's even worse than you think, and Alan's like, that's
Speaker 6: not possible.
Speaker 4: Like, I'm woody Alan, There is no there.
Speaker 6: Is no bottom to what I think of Alan Derschwitz. Yeah,
Speaker 6: those are his best friends.
Speaker 5: What a team, What a team just going around the world.
Speaker 7: All right.
Speaker 5: There's also an email we should talk about here where
Speaker 5: Jeffrey Epstein March of twenty eighteen, subject line writes to
Speaker 5: a redacted recipient, quote he was passed away.
Speaker 4: That's the subject line, and it's.
Speaker 5: A Actually, it's the quote of an article that I
Speaker 5: think was published in The Mirror in two thousand and two.
Speaker 5: And Epstein put in Robert Maxwell and then went to
Speaker 5: the quote, which is quote threatened Masade. He told him
Speaker 5: that unless they gave him four hundred million pounds to
Speaker 5: save his crumbling empire, he would have expose all he
Speaker 5: had done for them. And that time he had free
Speaker 5: access to Margaret Thatcher's Downing Street, Ronald Reagan's White House,
Speaker 5: to the Kremlin, and to the corridors of power throughout Europe.
Speaker 5: Maxwell passed away, passed on all the secrets he learned
Speaker 5: to Mosad in Tel Aviv. In turn, they tolerated his excesses, vanities,
Speaker 5: and insatiable appetite for luxurious lifestyle and women. He told
Speaker 5: his controllers who they should target and how they should
Speaker 5: do it. Henointed, he appointed himself as Israel's unofficial ambassador
Speaker 5: to the Soviet Bloc.
Speaker 4: And then Ryan this is it's a quote.
Speaker 5: H It's quite interesting that Epstein yes, and then he
Speaker 5: says he was passed away his passive voice as.
Speaker 3: BFF is Maxwell's daughter.
Speaker 6: Before Jeffrey Epstein, there was Robert Maxwell, Like the biggest,
Speaker 6: the most similar scandal to Epstein today is actually Maxwell
Speaker 6: when he was killed, as this is as this is
Speaker 6: the allegation from Epstein Maxwell. And it was similar also
Speaker 6: in the sense that there were so many obvious clues
Speaker 6: that he was in his rarely intelligence asset.
Speaker 3: Including his like.
Speaker 6: His burial, like in Israel at the most prestigious place,
Speaker 6: including Ari Benmnash saying out loud he was an asset
Speaker 6: and I worked directly with him, including all of this evidence,
Speaker 6: and you'd have the press calling it a giant conspiracy theory.
Speaker 6: So it was similar in that sense where and the
Speaker 6: public eventually I think that fought It was like, no, yeah,
Speaker 6: I don't believe the press on this one.
Speaker 3: The conspiracy theory is true.
Speaker 6: And now it's a pretty I don't now it's barely
Speaker 6: even a controversial thing to say that Maxwell wasn't at
Speaker 6: an Israeli asset like he just he just was, and
Speaker 6: he was. He also was, like Epstein, a bit of
Speaker 6: a con artist and a flim flam and and frittered away,
Speaker 6: you know, hundreds of millions of dollars. According to Ben Minash,
Speaker 6: the thing that actually broke his empire was there was
Speaker 6: this intramural dispute with the Israeli weapons traffickers involved in
Speaker 6: Iran Contra, and so they moved their money from banks
Speaker 6: that were guaranteeing Maxwell with the Iran Contra money to
Speaker 6: the East Block so the money would be safe from
Speaker 6: the CIA, which they were now starting to fight with.
Speaker 6: And so once that money got pulled, now Maxwell all
Speaker 6: of a sudden couldn't meet his monthly obligations. Maxwell then
Speaker 6: threatened that he would you blow the whistle on all
Speaker 6: the things that he was doing for them, And just
Speaker 6: a pro tip for assets out there, don't do that.
Speaker 3: Don't You're not going to win that one. Don't do that, like,
Speaker 3: don't don't warn that. If you do it, just do it.
Speaker 6: Don't tell them do x or I'm going to expose
Speaker 6: all of your secrets.
Speaker 3: Don't do that.
Speaker 6: You're not going to make it to that point. If
Speaker 6: you're going to leak stuff, leak it you might while.
Speaker 4: You might end up falling off the back of your gut.
Speaker 6: Don't walk into the room with the whists and be like,
Speaker 6: I'm going to blow this. If you don't give me,
Speaker 6: yeah exactly, you might wind up falling on of a
Speaker 6: window or off the back of your yacht or uh.
Speaker 6: One guy they said he got he'd played tennis, and
Speaker 6: like two days later they said he died of an
Speaker 6: aggressive form of cancer m.
Speaker 3: That he picked up like the day before.
Speaker 6: Like, oh, that's interesting, how that happens.
Speaker 4: One of those things, those crazy things in life.
Speaker 3: So yeah, pro tip, don't do it like this.
Speaker 5: And this is i mean the gist of what it's
Speaker 5: like going through these emails, and it's probably everyone's having
Speaker 5: this experience on social media right now. You're seeing little
Speaker 5: like tidbits in these single emails that like this seemed
Speaker 5: to confirm Epstein buys the conspiracy story. It's not really
Speaker 5: conspiracy anymore, but what has been treated as a conspiracy
Speaker 5: in the past about Robert Maxwell being quote passed away
Speaker 5: and it's just in.
Speaker 4: The subject line of an email.
Speaker 5: So there are it's wrong to call them gems, but
Speaker 5: like gems in the context of a getting to the
Speaker 5: bottom of what's actually going on, they're everywhere. And that's
Speaker 5: what makes it so addicting to be buried in the
Speaker 5: Epstein Library is you never know which silly email riddled
Speaker 5: with typos is going to be so significant and one,
Speaker 5: you know, throwaway email he sent what twenty eighteen?
Speaker 4: It has huge.
Speaker 6: Consequences and it's I love it in the sense that
Speaker 6: its teaching people history and very recent history that is
Speaker 6: still quite relevant to us.
Speaker 3: We're going way long. We should probably move on.
Speaker 4: Yeah, let's do it.
Speaker 3: Yeah. So Van laith is joining us next to talk about.
Speaker 4: Oh no, we have a part two.
Speaker 3: Ice hearings. Congress probed the behavior of ice and hearings yesterday.
Speaker 3: Me or mar Martinez was there, who was shot five
Speaker 3: times by ICE agents in Chicago but survived, one of
Speaker 3: the more high profile survivors of ice violence.
Speaker 6: We're going to be joining in a moment by a
Speaker 6: friend of the show. Van lath And discussed the hearings.
Speaker 6: Let's start first with Martinez up on Capitol Hill.
Speaker 3: This is b one.
Speaker 10: As my attorneys showed the court, the disgusting text messages
Speaker 10: Exem sent to his fellow Border Patrol buddies, literally bragging
Speaker 10: about how many times he shot me. I got stick
Speaker 10: to my stomach. Seeing how a federal law enforcement officer
Speaker 10: will talk this way about shooting me, a woman who
Speaker 10: he swore into was both eye opening and heartbreaking.
Speaker 11: The true that in the body cam footage the CBP
Speaker 11: officer told you too, and I'm so sorry for saying this.
Speaker 11: The author told you to quote do something bitch before
Speaker 11: he fired. Yes, the disgusting, shameful, and it gets worse.
Speaker 7: Ms Martinez.
Speaker 11: These are images of texts sent by the agent who
Speaker 11: shot you, and they're actually were They're actually disturbing.
Speaker 7: To read, but I think it's important for the public
Speaker 7: to see this.
Speaker 11: The agent LinkedIn article about your shooting and texted, read
Speaker 11: it five shots, seven holes. I fired five rounds and
Speaker 11: she had seven holes.
Speaker 7: Put that in your book.
Speaker 11: Boys, Oh well, it is what it is. Shit happens.
Speaker 11: This is someone that works for the United States government.
Speaker 11: I fired five rounds and she had seven holes. Now,
Speaker 11: he was talking about you, and it's our understanding that
Speaker 11: he was actually bragging about his aim shooting an unarmed
Speaker 11: American citizen?
Speaker 7: Is that right?
Speaker 4: Correct?
Speaker 6: And so we're hearing from mir Mar Martinez because she
Speaker 6: survives that attack. We didn't hear from Renana Cole Good,
Speaker 6: though we heard from some family members. Didn't hear obviously
Speaker 6: from Alex Pretty who's no longer here to testify. But Van,
Speaker 6: I'm curious when it comes to your when it comes
Speaker 6: to your audience, is this level of brutality kind of
Speaker 6: breaking through? And how have you how have you seen
Speaker 6: the conversation around immigration enforcement change?
Speaker 3: And also welcome to the program.
Speaker 12: Oh, thank you very much, glad to have you back.
Speaker 12: I hope you had a good time down there. I
Speaker 12: see no tank. There was work to be done.
Speaker 7: I can tell.
Speaker 3: I'm feeling good.
Speaker 7: And now what I'm seeing from my audience is rage.
Speaker 12: I'm seeing rage, and I'm seeing a sort of wake
Speaker 12: up call. Now, Ms Martinez, you guys just featured her.
Speaker 12: That was a story that I saw you guys cover
Speaker 12: that I saw majority report cover. I saw a lot
Speaker 12: of play in independent news media cover, but I did
Speaker 12: not see too much coverage of what happened to her
Speaker 12: anywhere else. I say that to say that I think
Speaker 12: that there were overreaches, brutality and violations of the Constitution
Speaker 12: by ICE prior to Renee Good that the general public
Speaker 12: wasn't aware of.
Speaker 7: I don't think they understood.
Speaker 12: I think they people got the sense in cities, particularly
Speaker 12: with large ICE deployments, of how you know, ICE was
Speaker 12: you know, roaming their communities and papers please sort of culture,
Speaker 12: scaring people that they share their communities with, and there
Speaker 12: were headlines being made.
Speaker 7: Don't don't don't get me wrong, but.
Speaker 12: As far as ICE agents taking out their guns, shooting
Speaker 12: people and putting their lives in danger, American citizens and
Speaker 12: undocumented people, I think that Renee Good and alex Pretty
Speaker 12: was a wake up call to those people, and I
Speaker 12: do not think they're as a way to put the
Speaker 12: genie back in the bottom.
Speaker 5: Let's roll this clip of renee Good's family testifying at
Speaker 5: the same hearing yesterday.
Speaker 13: B two, my name is Luke Ganger, and I'm here
Speaker 13: with my brother Brent. Renee Good is our sister. We're
Speaker 13: here on behalf of Nay's big family and those who
Speaker 13: loved her. We're here to ask for your help. I
Speaker 13: was talking to my four year old last week when
Speaker 13: she noticed I was not doing well. I had to
Speaker 13: come here today and talk to some important people. She
Speaker 13: knows that her aunt died and that somebody caused it
Speaker 13: to happen. The deep distress our family feels because of
Speaker 13: Nay's loss is in such a violent and unnecessary way,
Speaker 13: is complicated by feelings of disbelief, distress, and desperation for change.
Speaker 13: In the last few weeks, our family took some consolation
Speaker 13: thinking that perhaps Nay's death would bring about change in
Speaker 13: our country, and it is not. The completely surreal scenes
Speaker 13: taking place on the streets of Minneapolis are beyond explanation.
Speaker 13: This is not just a bad day or a rough
Speaker 13: week or isolated incidents. These encounters with federal agents are
Speaker 13: changing the community and changing many lives, including ours, forever.
Speaker 5: So Van, I kind of disagree, respectfully with Renee Good's
Speaker 5: brother there on the point he's making about feeling as
Speaker 5: though her death has not brought about change. Public opinion
Speaker 5: has put a lot of pressure on the Trump administration,
Speaker 5: and that really, I mean, the Renee Good death was
Speaker 5: the moment that changed from my vantage point at least,
Speaker 5: I'm curious what you make of that. And one thing
Speaker 5: I wanted to ask too is people talk and we've
Speaker 5: talked here about the kind of dem Tea Party moment.
Speaker 5: It feels to me like the abolish Ice movement has
Speaker 5: become a really critical part of like Obamacare for the
Speaker 5: Tea Party movement was that rallying policy question. It feels
Speaker 5: to me like abolish Ice has kind of emerged as
Speaker 5: that for the Tea Party moment.
Speaker 7: Yeah, so I'll take your first question first.
Speaker 12: I tend to agree with you, I think from his
Speaker 12: vantage point, and I hate to speak for him, but
Speaker 12: when you are the victim of an injustice that's as
Speaker 12: profound as the loss of a family member, then the
Speaker 12: only elixir is for the source of that injustice to
Speaker 12: be held accountable and then for that to stop. It
Speaker 12: will probably be difficult for somebody that's dealing with that
Speaker 12: type of tragedy to see what we're seeing, which is
Speaker 12: that event being a flash point for really a political
Speaker 12: and cultural awakening for a lot of people in terms
Speaker 12: of how far ice has gone, what Ice really represents
Speaker 12: right now. You're seeing it in all the podcast spaces
Speaker 12: with a lot of the guys who are part of
Speaker 12: laundering Trump's reputation prior to the election, and just how
Speaker 12: they're being held accountable by their audiences for what they
Speaker 12: told people they should do, which is go out and
Speaker 12: support this regime. All of that's political. I think what
Speaker 12: would be cathartic to that, gentlemen, probably is to see
Speaker 12: one there be accountability in the death of his loved one,
Speaker 12: and on top of that, to see ice abuses stop
Speaker 12: or for there to be some plan for them to stop.
Speaker 7: And we, frankly haven't seen that quite yet.
Speaker 12: We've seen a lot of political tug of war happening,
Speaker 12: but nothing that seems like an answer to the problem
Speaker 12: of how they're being deployed in certain cities. To your
Speaker 12: second question, which I have totally forgotten in that little
Speaker 12: articulate and eloquent rant, what was.
Speaker 7: It again about?
Speaker 5: How so you have some Democrats voting with Republicans on
Speaker 5: the shutdown yesterday and basically the demp tea party moment
Speaker 5: seems to me like it's coalescing around abolish ice and
Speaker 5: the way the Republican tea Party was coalescing around Obamacare.
Speaker 4: And I just wanted to get your thoughts on that.
Speaker 12: Yeah, that's funny. How can I be that's funny? The
Speaker 12: Democrats don't.
Speaker 4: Get it, and it's I feel like you're about to
Speaker 4: uncork something.
Speaker 7: Then no, no, it's you know.
Speaker 12: I had a homeboy back in the day, and he
Speaker 12: used to like to, you know, have an occasional drink
Speaker 12: on Sunday night, you know, you come and he he
Speaker 12: polished off three or four twelve packs and he'd be like,
Speaker 12: he's a light he's a light drinker. I remember his
Speaker 12: girl telling him, hey, enough, like enough enough of it,
Speaker 12: like everybody had had enough. And I remember talking to him,
Speaker 12: talking to him. We go out one time and he goes, hey, man,
Speaker 12: I'm just gonna stay around here. I was gonna have
Speaker 12: a couple of I'm like, nah, man, you have an issue.
Speaker 12: You have a problem. We're dealing with you in love.
Speaker 12: But I'm telling you, this is a serious thing. You're
Speaker 12: gonna lose your family. I'm telling you. I'm telling you,
Speaker 12: I'm telling you. And it wasn't until he was seeing
Speaker 12: his kids at Barnes and Noble that he really got
Speaker 12: the the idea that she wanted something different and he
Speaker 12: had a serious problem. The problem was a part of
Speaker 12: his makeup and it was time to address it. I
Speaker 12: wonder when the Democrats are going to see themselves in
Speaker 12: the mirror, like when they're going to what Barnes and
Speaker 12: Noble visitation or we're going to have to arrange for
Speaker 12: them for them to see that they are orphaning their base.
Speaker 12: As you see me search for words. I really don't
Speaker 12: know how to articulate it. They do not get it.
Speaker 12: We're not going for it. That's it. We're not going
Speaker 12: for it. We're not going for it. It can't be negotiated.
Speaker 12: There's so many things that we're not going for, Like,
Speaker 12: it can't be negotiated. You can't talk nice about it.
Speaker 12: I'm wear that up on the hill everybody. There's all
Speaker 12: these histrionics and then they all go out and have
Speaker 12: a stake together and go to Epstein's house and all
Speaker 12: of that stuff like that. I get that that's how
Speaker 12: it goes. But like at this point, right now, that's over.
Speaker 12: We want this to stop. And how much ever pain
Speaker 12: has to happen to the general American public and project
Speaker 12: for this to be headed off.
Speaker 7: For this, for this part of.
Speaker 12: It, Ice Ice overreaches for us to say, hey, abolish this.
Speaker 12: This can't be reformed. The guts of it have to
Speaker 12: be torn up, torn up. Immigration enforcement is a part
Speaker 12: of having a country you have. You're gonna have borders,
Speaker 12: You're gonna have integration, immigration reform, and reform and enforcement
Speaker 12: excuse me, enforcement, should I say?
Speaker 4: You?
Speaker 7: Guys pissed me off with the question.
Speaker 12: I'm so mad at the at the Democrats, and I'm
Speaker 12: not coming across as articulate as I would want to.
Speaker 12: But I have conversations with politicians. I talked to them
Speaker 12: a lot. They called me, and they honestly don't get it.
Speaker 12: They are still in the phase of this where they
Speaker 12: are attempting to launder the reputation of ice to convince
Speaker 12: me and other people like me the usefulness of ice,
Speaker 12: where they're attempting to soft pedal it, and it really
Speaker 12: is I'm not even baffled. I'm fascinated, right. I think
Speaker 12: that a lot of people, if they had the conversations
Speaker 12: that I had, they would be gobsmacked by some of
Speaker 12: the political weakness. And I get it. It's complicated. I
Speaker 12: understand that it's complicated. But I was on the phone
Speaker 12: with somebody a couple of days ago. I said, man,
Speaker 12: figure out what the figure out what desperate looks like,
Speaker 12: figure out what truly obstructionists looks like. Figure out what
Speaker 12: ten is and go there, figure out what ten is.
Speaker 12: If there are all kinds of things, ICE is funded
Speaker 12: for a long time, I get it, all that stuff,
Speaker 12: figure out what ten is and go there. Because the
Speaker 12: disconnect between what I feel like the political intelligency of
Speaker 12: the left in Washington. That disconnect as it relates to
Speaker 12: the people that I'm having conversations with that listen to
Speaker 12: my show that.
Speaker 7: Taught to me, it's vast.
Speaker 12: They're talking about this issue as if it's regular, where
Speaker 12: there are people who are seeing Americans killed on the street,
Speaker 12: and they're like, what are you guys gonna do?
Speaker 6: And it feels like for a while, and tell me
Speaker 6: if this connects with what your conversation had been like
Speaker 6: feeling for a while, Democrats thought their answer needed to
Speaker 6: be to grow a beard and start using profanity.
Speaker 3: Yes, and like that.
Speaker 6: That was gonna show like how serious they were about changing,
Speaker 6: you know, their approach to Trump and to and to politics.
Speaker 6: I see, I can't tell if I see a little
Speaker 6: bit less of that. Like they started realizing, okay, it
Speaker 6: actually it's not authentic, and like if it's not coupled
Speaker 6: with something meaningful, it doesn't doesn't really land. And so
Speaker 6: maybe this is like an answer to what they could do,
Speaker 6: Like the Maga movement. They they were serious about changing
Speaker 6: the country. They like they told you, if we get
Speaker 6: into power, we're doing We're doing We're gonna build the wall,
Speaker 6: We're gonna do mass deportation, we're gonna do tariffs. Like
Speaker 6: they had these big ideas that stood in for the
Speaker 6: expression of the anger that people had, Like you've got
Speaker 6: this anger, and we're gonna do these big fundamental things.
Speaker 6: Democrats don't seem to have that, Like they've got profanity
Speaker 6: some of them. Some of them have grown beards, but
Speaker 6: they're not really there's nothing that you can grab onto
Speaker 6: that you can say, Oh, if they get into power,
Speaker 6: this is how the anger that I have a what's
Speaker 6: going on is going to be expressed abolished. Ice would
Speaker 6: be one of those things to say, like ice is irredeemable,
Speaker 6: We're getting rid of it.
Speaker 3: We're still doing immigration enforcement.
Speaker 6: But this rogue agency that's killing people in the streets
Speaker 6: like CBPS actually like killing more people in the streets.
Speaker 3: Deal with that separately.
Speaker 6: Uh, they gotta go like something like that, like does
Speaker 6: that does that track that? Like they feel like they
Speaker 6: feel like all they have to do is channel the
Speaker 6: anger by sounding angry themselves, but without any kind of
Speaker 6: meaning or substance behind it.
Speaker 4: Uh.
Speaker 12: I think you're you're you're dead on and I think
Speaker 12: that comes or that exists because they have for so.
Speaker 7: Long been a harm reduction party mm hm.
Speaker 12: And that robs you a vision, right, the Republican Maga,
Speaker 12: Trump is and wing they provided a vision to America. Now,
Speaker 12: in my opinion and opinion of a lot of people,
Speaker 12: that vision was grotesque, but it was a vision, nonetheless,
Speaker 12: and behind that vision, in order for them to be
Speaker 12: taken seriously, there had to be action. Now that action
Speaker 12: is disorganized, it violates the constant, it's inhumane, it's the
Speaker 12: entire list of things. But it had to exist, it
Speaker 12: had to be there. Abolished, ice is vision, defund the police.
Speaker 12: I know you guys don't like it. That's a vision statement,
Speaker 12: that's a statement idea. It's a big idea, right, It's
Speaker 12: it's something that says, hey, let's reimagine that and this
Speaker 12: and whatever.
Speaker 7: Is it the most popular thing?
Speaker 4: No?
Speaker 12: Is it something that should have been discussed for the
Speaker 12: merits of what it actually was. Yes, are some of
Speaker 12: these things jarring and shaking to the milk toast Boulet
Speaker 12: bourgeoise person who doesn't want to see society set on
Speaker 12: flames and reimagine cool, get all of that.
Speaker 7: The question is what's your version of that? Like, what
Speaker 7: is your vision?
Speaker 12: Okay, we know that this needs to stop. How do
Speaker 12: you imagine it stopping? How do you imagine immigration enforcement?
Speaker 12: How do you imagine a path to citizenship? How do
Speaker 12: you imagine humanity for people that we share borders with?
Speaker 12: What is your version of this? And it's very difficult.
Speaker 12: They are so concerned with not being rude that it
Speaker 12: seems like they care more about that than actual victory
Speaker 12: and the protection of the people who put them in power.
Speaker 5: And in the politics of it, the political value of
Speaker 5: being able to milk the energy to have the hearing
Speaker 5: like they put together yesterday without putting their policy, like
Speaker 5: you said, whatever they're reimagining, putting it on the table,
Speaker 5: you can talk and end up never actually Republicans of
Speaker 5: this with Obamaca, it's a perfect parallel. They never put
Speaker 5: anything right now, they don't have anything. It's been fifteen
Speaker 5: years right.
Speaker 12: Because their resistance to Obamacare has nothing to do with
Speaker 12: what we're trying to talk about, which is how are
Speaker 12: people going to get to the doctor. Yeah, okay, Like
Speaker 12: how are people going to get care? And I think
Speaker 12: that really on both sides of this, there.
Speaker 7: Is something happening.
Speaker 12: And I really desperately hope that we can take advantage
Speaker 12: of the moment people that want to live in a
Speaker 12: society of freedom, that people are really getting to a
Speaker 12: point where they're starting to ask a question. And it's
Speaker 12: a question that all Americans should always have asked themselves,
Speaker 12: but it's a hard question to ask, like what's in
Speaker 12: this for me? I think the biggest thing about the
Speaker 12: what ICE is doing in the overreaches is people are
Speaker 12: seeing in their communities, in their societies dysfunction and chaos,
Speaker 12: and they're going, is this changing my life? And are
Speaker 12: things cheaper? Are societies better? Or are you injecting a
Speaker 12: whole bunch of chaos into my world for political reasons?
Speaker 12: For your power? We voted for a long time to uh,
Speaker 12: I guess we know what's in it for Trump, we
Speaker 12: know what's in it for Chuck Schumer, we know what's
Speaker 12: in it for all of these people. They get power,
Speaker 12: they get to continue to pull the strings of society.
Speaker 7: We'll just ask yourself, like, what's in it for you?
Speaker 7: What have you.
Speaker 12: Gotten for this? Have you gotten better medical care? Do
Speaker 12: you get lower grocery prices? What's the is any of
Speaker 12: this working for you? And I think on both sides
Speaker 12: of the aisle people are going it doesn't seem like
Speaker 12: anyone's really thinking about me.
Speaker 3: Yep, Ben, Always a pleasure to have you on. Look
Speaker 3: forward to your next to Parents Higher Learning podcast.
Speaker 6: Everybody check it out. Thanks so much for joining us.
Speaker 7: No problem.
Speaker 12: I would have hack because next time I want to come,
Speaker 12: I want to fish. I want to fish and go
Speaker 12: to fish fishing today and then we go to fish
Speaker 12: in the evening.
Speaker 7: Ryan, don't leave me out, brother.
Speaker 6: You're in, You're in the crow, all right, say all
Speaker 6: right up. Next, Iran talks are moving to Oman. Is
Speaker 6: it just a they just like faking this so they
Speaker 6: can get their assets in place to bomb Tehran again?
Speaker 3: Probably we'll talk about it next.
Speaker 5: Details out of the Arabian Sea. Let's put this first
Speaker 5: element up on the screen. As Fox News says, here,
Speaker 5: the US military shot down and unmanned Iranian drone after quote,
Speaker 5: it aggressively approached a US Navy aircraft carrier with unclear intent.
Speaker 5: A US Central Command spokesperson told Fox News. The USS
Speaker 5: Abraham Lincoln was transiting the Arabian Sea, approximately five hundred
Speaker 5: miles from iran southern coast, when in Iranian had one
Speaker 5: thirty nine drone unnecessarily maneuvered toward the ship. According to
Speaker 5: that spokesperson for Centcom Ryan, this is a reminder of
Speaker 5: how fragile the conditions in the Middle East star right now.
Speaker 5: And I know a lot of people on the right
Speaker 5: who are disappointed that Trump has not made good on
Speaker 5: his promises in Iran. But reminders they got a drone,
Speaker 5: Reminders of plenty, yes, they got a drone. Of how quickly, quickly,
Speaker 5: quickly this can escalate the second an American is hurt,
Speaker 5: you have a different, completely different war.
Speaker 6: The the like asymmetry here as wild. Like if you try,
Speaker 6: if we try to add up the amount of money
Speaker 6: the US spent to shoot down this was it twenty
Speaker 6: thousand dollars drone, It would reach into well into the
Speaker 6: probably hundreds of millions. I mean if you count the
Speaker 6: billion dollar aircraft. Although we can keep aircraft carry we
Speaker 6: can keep using that the missiles, the like, the equipment
Speaker 6: this is this is a fundamental material problem for the
Speaker 6: US going forward, that it's up against it's up against
Speaker 6: this new cheap drone warfare with and it is using
Speaker 6: it's older like multi billion dollar assets. We're in a
Speaker 6: war of attrition with somebody who can actually produce them
Speaker 6: like consistently, like China. Like we've run out of like
Speaker 6: ten million dollars missiles pretty quickly, and they can just
Speaker 6: keep slapping together these drones.
Speaker 5: And I will see in this case, like there's a
Speaker 5: you and I made disagree on this, but there's I
Speaker 5: think an interesting test case happening right now for the
Speaker 5: piece through strength doctrine at its best. So if Trump
Speaker 5: de escalates by having aircraft carriers in the Arabian Sea
Speaker 5: and threatening her on but not actually going much further,
Speaker 5: like doing what they want him to do, and they
Speaker 5: being the neo conservative bulwark that remains in power through
Speaker 5: Lindsay Graham and many many others here in Washington, though
Speaker 5: not many others around the country, average voters, not a
Speaker 5: huge constituency, of course, but by not giving into their
Speaker 5: demands for like full scale war and using the big stick,
Speaker 5: it's possible that fewer people die and you spare your
Speaker 5: spared a broader conflict.
Speaker 6: But uh, just yeah, at this point, I would take
Speaker 6: that because my expectations of Trump are so low. But
Speaker 6: I'm really tired of him taking credit, uh for not
Speaker 6: doing bigger wars.
Speaker 3: That he didn't have to do at all.
Speaker 6: He's like, look at Venezuela, like we went in and
Speaker 6: we went out and could have done a long term
Speaker 6: occupation and invasion. Well you could have also just left
Speaker 6: them alone.
Speaker 3: Nobody will like.
Speaker 5: We still don't know that it's not going to It's
Speaker 5: the same thing with Iran.
Speaker 4: I mean there's so many people who were taking victory
Speaker 4: laps after June, like, oh, you guys were wrong.
Speaker 3: Yeah, we only did twelve days.
Speaker 4: I'm happy to take an L, happy to take an L.
Speaker 3: But it's February and here we are back again. Yes,
Speaker 3: why like again? Why like? What like?
Speaker 4: And here we.
Speaker 5: Are with Delsi Rodriguez and Judge of Venezuela like what
Speaker 5: was your what were you actually doing?
Speaker 3: Yeah? Good question.
Speaker 6: So, uh, nuclear talks are kicking up, so we can
Speaker 6: put up C three. So talks are scheduled now in Oman.
Speaker 6: They will not be their call news meetings calling them
Speaker 6: between the US and Iran, but Iran Iranian officials are saying, uh,
Speaker 6: they're there are indirect talks in a sense that the
Speaker 6: US is still refusing to kind of be in the
Speaker 6: same room. Cutters going to be there and they're going
Speaker 6: back and forth. There's some reporting out of Iran that
Speaker 6: they've gotten hints that that Kushner might end up becoming
Speaker 6: involved because we can put up C two. This is
Speaker 6: from on Launch Media, which is very well sourced among
Speaker 6: Iranian insiders. They were saying that one of the problems
Speaker 6: with the last round of negotiations, besides the fact that
Speaker 6: Trump killed all the negotiators, is that wit Cough consistently
Speaker 6: had to fly back to the United States to get answers,
Speaker 6: which you can imagine how frustrating that is. You're you're
Speaker 6: in the you're in an office, you're trying to buy
Speaker 6: a used car. Salesman like, I got to go talk
Speaker 6: to my manager, see if I can give you, you know,
Speaker 6: a discount on this true cote and he comes back
Speaker 6: ten minutes later, he's like, great news.
Speaker 3: You know, as long as you do the ten.
Speaker 6: Year warranty, we can do this true code at this
Speaker 6: at a discount. Imagine he had to fly back halfway
Speaker 6: around the world every time, and then the Iranians are
Speaker 6: sitting there twitting their thumbs and then they get bombed.
Speaker 3: So you can imagine that those are not ideal negotiating circumstances.
Speaker 3: So they're trying.
Speaker 6: They're saying, like, can you get some more people who
Speaker 6: are empowered to actually make deals? To me, the whole
Speaker 6: thing is absurd, Like, it seems pretty clear Trump is
Speaker 6: not serious about negotiations and it's just stalling because they
Speaker 6: launched most of their anti missile defenses during the Twelve
Speaker 6: Day War, and so they need to restock so that
Speaker 6: they can defend Israel from whatever counter attack comes. They
Speaker 6: can defend their other assets around the region, and they
Speaker 6: need to get all of their naval and air assets
Speaker 6: close enough to Iron so they can launch an attack.
Speaker 3: That seems to be what they're doing.
Speaker 6: In the past every time that they have invited the
Speaker 6: Iranians to negotiate, including Solomony, who I'll keep reminding people COSTM.
Speaker 6: Solomoney was in Bagdad when he was assassinated because he
Speaker 6: was lord there for negotiations towards peace, Like like, it's
Speaker 6: what it's Trump's move. He thinks it's clever, he thinks
Speaker 6: nobody sees it coming, and he's correct at first because
Speaker 6: that's like a maniacal thing to do. Yeah, because for
Speaker 6: thousands of years, like the one thing that even like
Speaker 6: Eengis Khan or whatever would like recognize and be like
Speaker 6: people go out and talk like it's just not pragmatic
Speaker 6: to kill that person. We'll talk to them and then
Speaker 6: you can go back and kill each other.
Speaker 7: Later.
Speaker 6: Trump was like, oh, but what if we killed them
Speaker 6: at the negotiating table when they're not looking?
Speaker 3: Have you thought of that?
Speaker 6: So you know, there's only so many red weddings until
Speaker 6: people show up at the wedding and like, so that's
Speaker 6: why I suspect that the Iranians are assuming that an
Speaker 6: attack is coming.
Speaker 3: You got you still got to take the invitation.
Speaker 6: You can imagine being tapped for these negotiations if you're
Speaker 6: an Iranian diplomat. I like, uh, really, this weekend helping
Speaker 6: my friend move.
Speaker 3: Like this is a chance of a lifetime. Would really
Speaker 3: love to do this.
Speaker 6: But if they can move it to am On, Oh
Speaker 6: they moved it to them on, God, then can't do
Speaker 6: them on.
Speaker 3: Actually turns out, yeah, I'm gonna worn out and am On.
Speaker 6: Things got a little out of control a couple of
Speaker 6: years ago when I was there I would really love
Speaker 6: to can't go to Aman. So yeah, and there's there's
Speaker 6: also reporting in that article that you can go go
Speaker 6: read that which backs up reporting that Jeremy Scalho had
Speaker 6: done earlier drop Site, which is that Iran had felt
Speaker 6: that the best way to de escalate these Trump attacks
Speaker 6: was to forecast exactly what they were going to do,
Speaker 6: tell Trump ahead of time so that there's minimal amount
Speaker 6: of damage and no actual damage to people, to American troops,
Speaker 6: and to announce ahead of time. We consider after we respond,
Speaker 6: we consider this finished. And so that's what they did
Speaker 6: multiple times, and there were people arguing at the time
Speaker 6: inside Iran, this is only going to convey weakness and
Speaker 6: invite more attacks.
Speaker 3: That you have to hit Trump harder.
Speaker 6: And the people who advocated for the restrained response, a
Speaker 6: lot of them were killed, and now they're being replaced
Speaker 6: by the people who had said, you're going to get
Speaker 6: yourself killed with this restraint. What Trump doesn't want is
Speaker 6: a forever war that he can't control. He's been very
Speaker 6: clear he hates those. So what we need to do
Speaker 6: is show him that we can pull one of those off.
Speaker 6: So we need to hit American assets in Iraq American
Speaker 6: assets in Syria, American assets in Doha, and you need
Speaker 6: to hit Israel as much as we can.
Speaker 3: And they've even talked about killing.
Speaker 6: As many as five hundred American troops to send a
Speaker 6: signal that they're going to be consequences to you continuing
Speaker 6: to attack us every six months. They feel like that's
Speaker 6: this faction feels like that's the only way to get
Speaker 6: this to stop, that that's the only language Trump understands.
Speaker 6: And the people in the room to argue against it
Speaker 6: were killed by Trump. So maybe they're all bluffing and
Speaker 6: or maybe the US can just annihilate their response capacity.
Speaker 6: Who knows, and hopefully we won't find out. But that's
Speaker 6: the current state of play.
Speaker 5: Well that's I mean, just the drone strike yesterday is
Speaker 5: again a reminder of how quickly this can completely change completely.
Speaker 5: You can wake up one day and an American could
Speaker 5: have been killed on an aircraft carrier, and we could
Speaker 5: be sending more and more troops, We could be sending
Speaker 5: boots on the damn ground in a heartbeat.
Speaker 4: Because of how fragile this is.