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Speaker 1: Hey, guys, Saga and Crystal here.

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Speaker 2: Independent media just played a truly massive role in this election,

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Speaker 2: and we are so excited about what that means for

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Speaker 2: the future of this show.

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Speaker 1: This is the only place where you can find honest

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Speaker 1: perspectives from the left and the right that simply does

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Speaker 1: not exist anywhere else.

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Speaker 2: So if that is something that's important to you, please

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Speaker 2: go to Breakingpoints dot com. Become a member today and

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Speaker 2: you'll get access to our full shows, unedited, ad free,

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Speaker 2: and all put together for you every morning in your inbox.

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Speaker 1: We need your help to build the future of independent

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Speaker 1: news media and we hope to see you at Breakingpoints

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Speaker 1: dot com.

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Speaker 3: Good morning, and welcome to Breaking Points. I was last week.

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Speaker 4: Last week.

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Speaker 5: It was so sad without your end, but we all

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Speaker 5: managed to get through. I think more people are curious

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Speaker 5: how you were last week.

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Speaker 3: Was good time, Good time was had.

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Speaker 6: Apparently some Epstein's news dropped while I was gone here.

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Speaker 5: Ryan was in Cancun at Fish shows as the Epstein

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Speaker 5: files were being released.

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Speaker 4: I felt bad texting you, Oh, I.

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Speaker 3: Was loving it.

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Speaker 6: I was loving it. It added to it, it did, Yeah,

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Speaker 6: I mean, because this is.

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Speaker 5: It's not a tropical vacation without learn for people who

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Speaker 5: are genuinely curious about how the world works and who

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Speaker 5: the people are who run this world.

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Speaker 3: This is like, this is the moment that the window

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Speaker 3: is actually open.

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Speaker 4: It's so unbelievable.

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Speaker 6: And that's and Mac was just telling us that we've

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Speaker 6: had hundreds of new premium subscribers over the last couple

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Speaker 6: of days, and I think that's because we've been covering

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Speaker 6: this honestly from the beginning, and it's such a disorienting

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Speaker 6: mess of a story because there's so much active disinformation

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Speaker 6: that gets pumped out into it. Yes, and you want

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Speaker 6: to know what's true, what's not, what matters, what doesn't,

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Speaker 6: and like we're trying to actually be honest about it

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Speaker 6: not and we don't care who it offends.

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Speaker 5: Right, not trying to smooth the edges of the story

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Speaker 5: out or anything like that. So you can get a

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Speaker 5: pretty subscription at Breakingpoints dot Com.

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Speaker 4: Appreciate it. If you do, you can go sign up there.

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Speaker 5: Otherwise, just follow us, you know, subscribe on YouTube to

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Speaker 5: get us in your feed and wherever you get your podcasts.

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Speaker 5: It's very helpful. But this has been to your point

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Speaker 5: of watershed. We yeah, I mean it's been like we've

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Speaker 5: got the drip drip coming out for a couple of

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Speaker 5: years now, but nothing like the geyser of the last

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Speaker 5: several days.

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Speaker 6: And while we're on the subject of gratitude for viewers

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Speaker 6: who are making this possible, I was thinking, you know,

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Speaker 6: Mexico watching fish, it's a good time for contemplation, and

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Speaker 6: I was thinking about how last year we didn't go

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Speaker 6: to the show because my wife had just gotten out

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Speaker 6: of the hospital with complications from chemo, which is damn

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Speaker 6: near killed her. And to think that now, like a

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Speaker 6: year later, we're back on the beach and like celebrating it,

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Speaker 6: and like throughout that whole thing, you guys were so

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Speaker 6: cool about like missing shows, being late like that was

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Speaker 6: that was really that was really moving. So I just

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Speaker 6: really appreciate that and also my mother in law to

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Speaker 6: like watch the kids the whole time.

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Speaker 3: Big thank you to Virginia.

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Speaker 6: That's so so And now I'm recharged ready to go

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Speaker 6: get these Epstein goons.

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Speaker 4: So in a way, it was great timing perfect. You

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Speaker 4: were recharging your battery just as the world needed our

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Speaker 4: super soldier Ryan grim Most.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, well, we have said we have a lot to

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Speaker 5: get through today. We're going to start actually with Epstein

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Speaker 5: because the drip drip is continuing. But also what's important

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Speaker 5: is putting the pieces of the puzzle together, and there

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Speaker 5: are a few people.

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Speaker 4: Better Quip to do that than Ryan Grimm. So we're

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Speaker 4: going to.

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Speaker 3: Start loving reporting on this.

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Speaker 6: I've been addicted, you've been You've been going through it

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Speaker 6: like a pro.

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Speaker 4: It's addicting.

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Speaker 5: I mean, the Epstein library is addicting on the DOJ's website,

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Speaker 5: which is a weird thing. You don't not many people

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Speaker 5: get addicted to the DOJ's website.

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Speaker 3: But you can also now go through jmail.

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Speaker 6: We have all of the latest volume eleven up on

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Speaker 6: Gmail dot world, which is project with drop side.

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Speaker 4: So I find that even more addicting because it's like

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Speaker 4: being in the sims.

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Speaker 6: Right and you can and you can then like see

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Speaker 6: the ones that came right before it, and you can

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Speaker 6: put it in time and yes, the articles it links

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Speaker 6: to links to the articles.

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Speaker 5: It's yeah, it's a technological feat. It's very very cool. Yeah,

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Speaker 5: so folks should also go there.

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Speaker 6: If we put we put in for a pulletzer like

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Speaker 6: they wanted to do it. I was like, you want

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Speaker 6: to understand that the pulitzer is housed in Columbia, right, Like, we're.

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Speaker 3: Not getting a pullet. We deserve one. Yes, you like,

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Speaker 3: if it was a fair fight, we would get one. Yeah.

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Speaker 6: It's the most innovative journalistic project I think ever on

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Speaker 6: a massive data set. Uh, and it's the biggest story

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Speaker 6: in the world, so it deserves it. I was like,

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Speaker 6: I'm not sure if you followed the news around Columbia

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Speaker 6: University lately.

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Speaker 7: It's not happening.

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Speaker 3: Don't think they're doing it in Epstein Pulleitzer.

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Speaker 5: No, not to drop side, definitely, not to drop side.

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Speaker 3: It's free to apply. I was like, look done hard

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Speaker 3: to apply.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, no, that's true. A lot of new details to

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Speaker 5: go through. So we'll start with We're then going to

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Speaker 5: have Van Lathan join us once again because Renee Goods

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Speaker 5: family testified in Curing yesterday.

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Speaker 4: We have clips from that.

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Speaker 5: We're going to talk about it with Van and just

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Speaker 5: Democrats on the ending of the guard. So the government

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Speaker 5: shutdown technically ended yesterday. The quote unquote partial government shutdown

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Speaker 5: technically ended yesterday.

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Speaker 4: You probably didn't notice. Nobody noticed even in DC, nobody noticed.

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Speaker 3: Cruise right through customs yep.

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Speaker 4: Oh good point.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, So we will be talking to Van about DEM's

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Speaker 5: decision when it came to reopening the government, having he

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Speaker 5: joined with Republicans that sort of thing.

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Speaker 4: And the United States shot down in Iranian drone.

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Speaker 5: Yesterday, So we're going to bring the latest on that

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Speaker 5: story as well. Elon Musk's X offices are being raided

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Speaker 5: in Paris. Musk is now in a war of words

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Speaker 5: with Spain and this is related to teen social media bans,

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Speaker 5: but the raid is also related to some of those

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Speaker 5: horrible images that were being created on X not You probably.

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Speaker 6: Remember when when Grock went completely Yeah, yep, groc did

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Speaker 6: his thing.

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Speaker 5: We have a wild clip of Chuck Schumer about Israel,

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Speaker 5: and Gaza will break down the latest new drop site

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Speaker 5: reporting to talk about there, and then the Blowbok the

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Speaker 5: blowback guys are here to talk about Cuba.

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Speaker 3: They were just in Cuba. Yeah.

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Speaker 6: Uh, Trump just put out an executive order declaring Cuba

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Speaker 6: to be like the worst of the worst of the worst.

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Speaker 4: Did that happen while they were there?

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Speaker 3: They did?

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Speaker 6: And uh, he's pressuring Mexico not to sell oil to

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Speaker 6: Cuba because somehow it is the business of the United

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Speaker 6: States who Mexico sells oil to and who Cuba buys

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Speaker 6: it from uh. They're trying to completely.

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Speaker 3: Send Cuba back to the seventeenth century.

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Speaker 6: So we're going to talk to Brendan and know about

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Speaker 6: what conditions are.

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Speaker 3: Like there and what the what the politics are. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: now and then and.

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Speaker 6: Negotiations between the US and Iran, which most people suspect

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Speaker 6: the US is just buying so they can get all

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Speaker 6: their assets in place and then launch an attack. But

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Speaker 6: they have moved to Oman at the request of Iran.

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Speaker 6: They moved from Turkey to Oman. We might even get

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Speaker 6: Kushner involved in them. So we'll talk about them.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, lots to go through, all right, Let's start then

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Speaker 5: with Jeffrey Epstein. Melinda Gates was on NPR and asked

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Speaker 5: the most uncomfortable question anyone could ever ask an ex

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Speaker 5: wife you.

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Speaker 6: Married one that an ex wife is probably not that

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Speaker 6: unhappy to answer.

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Speaker 5: It's a little bit better than being Bill Gates's current wife,

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Speaker 5: as she basically says in the clip. She's asked about

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Speaker 5: the detailed Crystal and saga covered where in the files.

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Speaker 5: This was in an Epstein draft to himself. Those drafts

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Speaker 5: are a very bizarre hot to send. Yeah, hot, too

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Speaker 5: hot for send, But it was the drafts are a

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Speaker 5: very strange window into Jeffrey Epstein's mind. And in a

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Speaker 5: draft you may remember, he mentioned Bill Gates, a Russian prostitute,

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Speaker 5: and procuring four Bill Gates the type of medication he

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Speaker 5: would need to slip into Melinda's diet somewhere or another

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Speaker 5: to prevent her from getting an STD. Yeah, so Melinda

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Speaker 5: Gates was asked about this, let's roll the club.

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Speaker 8: I think we're having a reckoning as a society, right,

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Speaker 8: No girl, no girl should ever be put in the

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Speaker 8: situation that they were put in by Epstein and whatever

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Speaker 8: was going on with all of the various people around him.

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Speaker 8: No girl, I mean, it's just it's beyond heartbreaking, right.

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Speaker 8: I remember being those ages those girls were. I remember

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Speaker 8: my daughter's being those ages. Right. So for me, it's

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Speaker 8: personally hard whenever those details come up, right because brings

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Speaker 8: back memories of some very very painful times in my marriage.

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Speaker 8: But I have moved on from that. I purposely pushed

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Speaker 8: it away and I moved on. I'm in a really unexpected,

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Speaker 8: beautiful place in my life. So whatever questions remain there

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Speaker 8: of what I don't can't even begin to know all

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Speaker 8: of it. Those questions are for those people and form

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Speaker 8: even my ex husband. They need to answer to those things,

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Speaker 8: not me well, and I am so happy to be

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Speaker 8: away from all the muck.

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Speaker 9: The emails in the files suggest that Bill Gates had

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Speaker 9: additional affairs, and that he tried to get medication to

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Speaker 9: treat a sexually transmitted infection, and that he was going

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Speaker 9: to give you the medicine without you knowing. His representative

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Speaker 9: has said all of this is false. It is not

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Speaker 9: on you to have to respond to the details of

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Speaker 9: that alleged behavior. But I wonder what your dominant emotion

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Speaker 9: is when you read these news articles with these details.

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Speaker 8: Sad just unbelievable sadness. Unbelievable sadness. Right, and again I'm

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Speaker 8: able to take my own sadness and look at those

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Speaker 8: young girls and say, my god, how did they have

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Speaker 8: How did that happen to those girls?

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Speaker 10: Right?

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Speaker 8: And so for me, it's just sadness, sadness. For you know,

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Speaker 8: I've left, I had, I left my marriage, I had

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Speaker 8: to leave my marriage. I wanted to leave my marriage.

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Speaker 4: I had to leave the.

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Speaker 8: Fact I felt I needed to eventually leave the foundation.

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Speaker 5: So it's just sad and ren that's pretty close. To

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Speaker 5: confirmation from me Linda Gates. The divorce itself was related

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Speaker 5: to the Epstein allegations with Bill Gates.

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Speaker 4: And they're not allegations.

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Speaker 5: I mean, it's the confirmed relationship between Bill Gates and

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Speaker 5: Jeffrey Epstein. Obviously there are all kinds of different allegations

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Speaker 5: that circulate around that, but it's not an allegation that

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Speaker 5: they that they had a significant relationship. I'm not insignificant relationship.

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Speaker 5: And in that clip, the way, the question was asked

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Speaker 5: by NPR, what is your dominant emotion when you hear that?

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Speaker 5: As opposed to did your ex husband secretly drug you too?

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Speaker 4: Out of love?

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Speaker 3: Of course she wouldn't know.

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Speaker 4: I guess she wouldn't. But what is your dominant emotion

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Speaker 4: when you hear that clip?

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Speaker 3: Maybe sad too? I'm in anger? Like what what is comebag?

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Speaker 4: I know?

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Speaker 6: Yeah, and you know she has said that she told

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Speaker 6: him this. By the way, this guy is a creep,

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Speaker 6: so like she didn't see him, you know, doing whatever

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Speaker 6: the satanic stuff they're doing, but being around him, she

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Speaker 6: was like, he's a creep. You should not be around him.

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Speaker 6: And if you're keeping around him, like this is not

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Speaker 6: going to work. And it's indicative of your character as well.

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Speaker 6: She was dead on. From other people who have met him,

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Speaker 6: I've gotten people have said the same thing that like

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Speaker 6: your creep dar like just went up in immediately, and

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Speaker 6: that goes sadly to the next guy we got to

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Speaker 6: talk about. We can put up c three here, one

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Speaker 6: of the for a certain subset of like gen X,

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Speaker 6: particular left wing people. This one has been just a

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Speaker 6: body blow.

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Speaker 4: The Woodstock ninety nine crowd.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, put up if you put up a three, and

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Speaker 6: before that, you know everybody everybody older than that too, Yeah,

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Speaker 6: put up a three. So this is an email and

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Speaker 6: people have tried to do some some cope around it, saying, well,

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Speaker 6: it's not from Noam Chomsky's email, so it's maybe it's

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Speaker 6: not him, and basically what he what?

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Speaker 3: What?

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Speaker 6: The one, the one that's circulating comes from one that

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Speaker 6: Nome did send directly to Jeffrey Epstein, and Epstein took

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Speaker 6: out some personal stuff in it and then sent it

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Speaker 6: to another friend saying this is this is the advice

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Speaker 6: that I got from Nome.

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Speaker 3: Now the personal.

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Speaker 6: Stuff I think actually plays into this, and maybe we

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Speaker 6: can have glenn On and we can talk about this.

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Speaker 3: But let's we can move on from that for now.

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Speaker 6: But basically what he tells Epstein says, I'm getting all

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Speaker 6: of his terrible press for all of these women accusing

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Speaker 6: me of abusing them.

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Speaker 3: What should you know? What should I do? And this

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Speaker 3: is this is twenty nineteen.

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Speaker 6: This is deep into me too, and it's I believe

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Speaker 6: this is long after the Miami Herald has done the

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Speaker 6: investigation into the.

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Speaker 3: Way that.

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Speaker 6: What he did in Florida was way worse than he

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Speaker 6: ended up getting charged with, because what he did was

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Speaker 6: extremely clever for his own rehabilitation. There were dozens of,

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Speaker 6: as we've reported, dozens of victims that they could have

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Speaker 6: chosen to charge him with. Yes, some as low as

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Speaker 6: like fourteen. He got them to make the one charge

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Speaker 6: somebody who was seventeen, which was very smart on his

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Speaker 6: part because what did he immediately start doing. It was

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Speaker 6: a prostitution situation. She told me she was eighteen. Turns

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Speaker 6: out she was seventeen and a half, and so many

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Speaker 6: people in the elite world were willing to be like,

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Speaker 6: you know what, hey, an age of consents at sixteen

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Speaker 6: in some states and so and also he hangs out

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Speaker 6: with the Secretary of State and former presidents and he's

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Speaker 6: on the board of this and that, and he's a billionaire.

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Speaker 6: Sure it's fine. But by twenty nineteen, so even if

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Speaker 6: you like allow for that that cleverness that he was

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Speaker 6: able to pull off with the cost in and the

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Speaker 6: Bush administration, by twenty nineteen people knew the contours of

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Speaker 6: that deal and the context of it. And so what

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Speaker 6: Noam Chelnsey basically tells him is do not respond it all. Like,

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Speaker 6: if you respond at all, it's just going to give

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Speaker 6: the vultures. He says, you know what the vultures dearly

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Speaker 6: want is a public response, which then provides a public

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Speaker 6: opening for an onslaught of venomous attacks, many from just

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Speaker 6: publicity seekers and cranks of all sort. And he goes

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Speaker 6: on and on and so to see, because you know,

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Speaker 6: some of us had our cope was Chompsky responds to

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Speaker 6: everybody he has, He emails Everybody'll like, he'll speak wherever,

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Speaker 6: He'll take any interview request. He has this voracious curiosity

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Speaker 6: about humanity. Epstein was funding MIT. Obviously, Chompsky wants to

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Speaker 6: do what he can to like get funding from my

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Speaker 6: t so you could like you can get there and

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Speaker 6: be like, look, but to see the level of emotion

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Speaker 6: that he had in his relationship with Epstein, knowing that

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Speaker 6: so many other people who met him or like, this

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Speaker 6: guy's creep. It's uh sitting. It doesn't mean that he

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Speaker 6: participated in any of the any of the sordid stuff,

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Speaker 6: which and I've been consistent on that, Like people want

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Speaker 6: to cancel every single person who's on an email with Epstein,

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Speaker 6: but I don't think that's fair.

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Speaker 3: He emailed thousands of people.

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Speaker 6: The people that need to be face accountability and shame

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Speaker 6: are the ones that participated, knew about and didn't say

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Speaker 6: anything or knew about and participated in what he was doing.

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Speaker 3: We know, at least Chomsky had a.

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Speaker 6: Very close relationship with him, and we know that he

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Speaker 6: was a creep and that it was easy to tell that,

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Speaker 6: and we know that he's telling him, he's guiding him

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Speaker 6: how to overcome this.

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Speaker 3: Like wall of allegations.

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Speaker 5: It's rather odd to see deference given to a billionaire

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Speaker 5: supporter of the global intelligence state as well. Right, So,

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Speaker 5: like it's one thing if Epstein had been a sort

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Speaker 5: of left aligned billionaire and I mean and I don't

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Speaker 5: mean Democrat, like obviously he was a dem donor and

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Speaker 5: he was close.

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Speaker 3: With the labor wing of Israel.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, we can put a two up on the screen. Yeah,

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Speaker 4: labor wave of Israel.

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Speaker 5: But a two is the news yesterday from the House side,

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Speaker 5: the Clintons have broken an agreement to be questioned on

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Speaker 5: camera to avoid those contempt of Congress charges that it

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Speaker 5: looked like they were barreling head on into.

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Speaker 4: Just a couple of weeks ago, and they sent.

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Speaker 5: That letter and said, no, this is all We're not

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Speaker 5: doing it. They're not going to pull Steve Bannon and

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Speaker 5: go to prison for defying the subpoena. They're not going

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Speaker 5: to be on camera. But that's a reminder that again

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Speaker 5: it's why of all of all the billionaires who have

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Speaker 5: gnom Chomsky's deference and trust and support.

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Speaker 4: Epstein's a non choice, but the worst one. It's a

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Speaker 4: non choice, like who else you got?

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Speaker 3: It's going to be worse than that.

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Speaker 4: It's a weird one.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and it gives throwing it to rail the entire show.

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Speaker 6: Chomsky was a an anarchist, and in the time that

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Speaker 6: I was coming up, actual socialism had been somewhat significantly

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Speaker 6: discredited on the left because of the collapse of the

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Speaker 6: Soviet Union and a lot of like American The American

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Speaker 6: idea in the late eighties nineties about communism was not

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Speaker 6: that it was this bulwark against American imperialism and like

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Speaker 6: an and a like vehicle for the rise of the

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Speaker 6: working class. It was like this was a sclerotic, authoritarian thing,

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Speaker 6: and that gave purchase to anarchism to really take hold

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Speaker 6: in like the nineties and early two thousands as an

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Speaker 6: alternative that radicals could glom onto. And you always had

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Speaker 6: the socialists and communists saying that's fake, that's just that's

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Speaker 6: just gloss over liberalism. And it allows them to say

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Speaker 6: I told you so, because the answer to how could

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Speaker 6: he align himself with somebody like this would be so interesting? Well,

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Speaker 6: it's actually it really was just glossed over liberalism.

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Speaker 4: That's so interesting. A four. Let's put a four up

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Speaker 4: on the screen.

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Speaker 5: This is an Epstein email to Peter Teal where Ryan

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Speaker 5: This gets into a lot of the drop site reporting here. Epstein,

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Speaker 5: February twenty eight, twenty sixteen. As you probably know, this

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Speaker 5: is to Peter Teal, I represent the Ross Childs. I

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Speaker 5: was hoping to figure out a way for the bank

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Speaker 5: that has one hundred and sixty b and management can

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Speaker 5: do something in tech best client lists in the world,

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Speaker 5: prehistoric products.

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Speaker 4: It can wait. Good luck in China.

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Speaker 5: This is like a poem, like a sick pome. I'll

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Speaker 5: be in Europe again twenty twenty eight, then island. So

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Speaker 5: if you want to come around the world going west dot,

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Speaker 5: come to the island dot. Or if you would like

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Speaker 5: to meet in Saudi at the end of the month

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Speaker 5: question mark and then Teal says, certainly, not in Saudi.

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Speaker 4: I think I will would the Middle East for the

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Speaker 4: next decade or so.

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Speaker 5: Should be back on East Coast in late April May

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Speaker 5: sometime in NYC or on island.

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Speaker 4: Then dot dot dot.

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Speaker 5: Lovely they have us hanging here in suspense. But Ryan

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Speaker 5: Dropsite has done a deep investigation into the Epstein Rothschild's connection.

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Speaker 3: Right yeah, so people can go read that.

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Speaker 6: That's Arianda Rothschild, who herself is a fascinating character because

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Speaker 6: she's not a Rothschild, just from Central America, married into

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Speaker 6: the family and then became the first kind of married

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Speaker 6: in person to run the bank. And she developed a

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Speaker 6: very close relationship with Epstein, which she denied, but which

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Speaker 6: our original.

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Speaker 3: Emails showed not true at all.

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Speaker 6: This further tightens it and shows that he was using

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Speaker 6: his linkage with her and the bank to try to

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Speaker 6: appeal to Teal.

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Speaker 3: Here that's twenty fifteen.

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Speaker 6: One thing I was proud of from this weekend that

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Speaker 6: I had a nice scoop before we hit the tarmac,

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Speaker 6: which was we found this three and a half hour

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Speaker 6: conversation between sin Ahood Barack and Laurence Summers that was

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Speaker 6: huge and pulled a piece out of it where he

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Speaker 6: is telling ad Barack, who's still Minister of Defense. So

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Speaker 6: this was February of twenty thirteen. He didn't leave the

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Speaker 6: ministry until March of twenty thirteen. But so he's plotting,

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Speaker 6: like what his next move is going to be, and

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Speaker 6: Epstein is like, you should be on the board of

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Speaker 6: this company called Palanteer.

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Speaker 3: He spells it for him, incorrectly, spells it incorrectly.

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Speaker 4: It's like traitors where they write the names. And then

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Speaker 4: that's all I could think of it.

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Speaker 3: And then Barack spells it back to make sure he's

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Speaker 3: got it.

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Speaker 6: Right, and gets it right no and yes, yes, even

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Speaker 6: though it's been way off when Epstein spelled it and

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Speaker 6: then they asked him to spell Teal. He gets that wrong.

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Speaker 6: At one point Andres and Horowitz he gets that wrong. Meanwhile,

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Speaker 6: but he's Meanwhile, Sommers is there and he tells that

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Speaker 6: He's like, who's Andres and Horowitz. He's like, oh, Larry's

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Speaker 6: an advised with him. He gets a million dollars a

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Speaker 6: year from them just to give them advice. Larry can't

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Speaker 6: even be like, I'll be spelled it wrong. So after

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Speaker 6: that Teal Epstein invests heavily in Peter Teal's companies. Twenty

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Speaker 6: twenty four, Palenteer and Israel strike up strategic agreement. Trump

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Speaker 6: basically has a strategic agreement with Palenteer. Now, so this

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Speaker 6: is interesting to see the kernels of this, this relationship

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Speaker 6: starting to bloom.

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Speaker 5: And from all of the reporting you've done on Ahood Barack,

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Speaker 5: what then, big picture geopolitical significance would you or how

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Speaker 5: would you describe the relationship in that context? What does

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Speaker 5: it mean that they were forming that bond at that time?

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Speaker 6: Ahu Barack played a well he goes back to Iran contract. Yeah,

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Speaker 6: as you're learning in this book that and when are

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Speaker 6: both reading now on Profits of War by Ari Ben Minsh.

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Speaker 6: Barack comes up there in a bunch, but so he

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Speaker 6: goes back to early which Epstein was also involved in,

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Speaker 6: but after he leaves office and twenty thirteen he tries

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Speaker 6: to come back. In twenty eighteen nineteen Epstein dying, I

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Speaker 6: think the rails helped to derail has come back into politics.

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Speaker 6: He played a central role in the creation or the

443
00:23:13,560 --> 00:23:18,760
Speaker 6: advent and the expansion of Israel's cyber weapons in cybersecurity industry.

444
00:23:19,119 --> 00:23:23,040
Speaker 6: Barack is on all of these keyboards. It became his thing,

445
00:23:23,080 --> 00:23:26,200
Speaker 6: and it was Epstein who guided him toward this thing

446
00:23:26,520 --> 00:23:29,200
Speaker 6: and telling him like, these people like Teal and these

447
00:23:29,240 --> 00:23:34,639
Speaker 6: other these are the this is the future, and you

448
00:23:34,680 --> 00:23:36,679
Speaker 6: need to be a major part of it, and you

449
00:23:36,680 --> 00:23:39,200
Speaker 6: can open the doors. You can then be the one

450
00:23:39,200 --> 00:23:41,879
Speaker 6: that can sell you know, you can build relationships with

451
00:23:41,880 --> 00:23:46,840
Speaker 6: African countries, with Asian countries around the world to help

452
00:23:47,119 --> 00:23:51,679
Speaker 6: these Israeli companies get in. And because Barack had been

453
00:23:51,720 --> 00:23:54,679
Speaker 6: at the center of Israeli intelligence for so long, he

454
00:23:55,359 --> 00:23:59,920
Speaker 6: had those relationships. So Epstein played a central role in

455
00:24:00,280 --> 00:24:05,720
Speaker 6: the expansion of the surveillance state, global surveillance state that

456
00:24:05,800 --> 00:24:08,240
Speaker 6: we have today and that continues to expand.

457
00:24:08,400 --> 00:24:10,439
Speaker 5: So this is one of the things that I've been

458
00:24:10,440 --> 00:24:12,879
Speaker 5: going through the last like forty eight hours is mentioned

459
00:24:12,960 --> 00:24:15,880
Speaker 5: in the files of the NSSA. And this is really

460
00:24:15,880 --> 00:24:19,919
Speaker 5: interesting actually in the bigger contexts that you just mentioned.

461
00:24:19,920 --> 00:24:23,240
Speaker 5: Epstein was obsessed with the idea that you can use

462
00:24:23,440 --> 00:24:27,280
Speaker 5: NSA style decryption on human cells, and so he was

463
00:24:27,560 --> 00:24:30,440
Speaker 5: engaged in this project. And maybe we can talk about

464
00:24:30,480 --> 00:24:33,240
Speaker 5: this next week or something. But where he's trying, he's

465
00:24:33,280 --> 00:24:36,000
Speaker 5: asking people to hook him up with Israeli hackers. I'm

466
00:24:36,000 --> 00:24:38,040
Speaker 5: looking at one email right now to this guy who's

467
00:24:38,040 --> 00:24:41,040
Speaker 5: at the Gates Foundation at the time, Boris Nikolic, who says,

468
00:24:41,840 --> 00:24:45,639
Speaker 5: Jeffrey Epstein says, let's think up NSSA types for Washington meeting.

469
00:24:46,320 --> 00:24:50,000
Speaker 5: All these mentions, where do you have contacts at NSA?

470
00:24:51,160 --> 00:24:54,359
Speaker 5: Can you find me the best codebreaker NSSAY type. I mean,

471
00:24:54,359 --> 00:24:57,960
Speaker 5: it's just like over and over again. And that's really

472
00:24:57,960 --> 00:25:01,119
Speaker 5: interesting that he was helping a Hubarak build the Israeli

473
00:25:01,200 --> 00:25:05,760
Speaker 5: surveillance state and then looking to mine codebreakers at the

474
00:25:05,760 --> 00:25:08,640
Speaker 5: American surveillance state for his science.

475
00:25:09,080 --> 00:25:11,840
Speaker 4: Like he had these what's the right We're like these

476
00:25:11,880 --> 00:25:20,920
Speaker 4: almost like millenarian ideas about technology, like he can bring about.

477
00:25:21,320 --> 00:25:24,760
Speaker 6: Right, and unusually he brought it about. I've seen a

478
00:25:24,800 --> 00:25:28,040
Speaker 6: lot of people who've watched his interview with either listen

479
00:25:28,080 --> 00:25:30,320
Speaker 6: to that conversation or they watch his interview with Bannon

480
00:25:30,320 --> 00:25:32,440
Speaker 6: and they're like, Oh, this guy is just this owner

481
00:25:33,280 --> 00:25:37,800
Speaker 6: who's just like high flutint and ideas, but he's actually

482
00:25:37,840 --> 00:25:41,760
Speaker 6: a dummy. And I would just strongly encourage people to

483
00:25:43,040 --> 00:25:47,439
Speaker 6: give that analysis a second thought. This guy, this is

484
00:25:47,480 --> 00:25:50,160
Speaker 6: not a dummy. This is a guy who can explain

485
00:25:51,320 --> 00:25:55,680
Speaker 6: and understand extraordinarily. He can take extraordinary complex systems, whether

486
00:25:55,720 --> 00:26:01,800
Speaker 6: it's global finance, global politics, science and medicine, surveillance, global surveillance,

487
00:26:02,480 --> 00:26:05,399
Speaker 6: he can he can understand them intuitively and then he

488
00:26:05,440 --> 00:26:08,879
Speaker 6: can explain them in a way that allows you to

489
00:26:09,040 --> 00:26:12,960
Speaker 6: understand them. That is an extremely rare quality in somebody

490
00:26:13,480 --> 00:26:15,639
Speaker 6: that is not a dummy, that is that is not

491
00:26:15,720 --> 00:26:21,840
Speaker 6: somebody just sitting around pontificating. And man's plaining like, don't

492
00:26:22,000 --> 00:26:23,480
Speaker 6: under don't underestimate this guy.

493
00:26:23,520 --> 00:26:24,280
Speaker 3: That's what I would say.

494
00:26:24,320 --> 00:26:28,120
Speaker 4: Well, one person who was not charmed by Jeffrey Epstein

495
00:26:28,480 --> 00:26:32,080
Speaker 4: is Norman Finkelstein.

496
00:26:32,680 --> 00:26:37,480
Speaker 5: Let's put this one up a five. Oh my gosh, Ryan,

497
00:26:37,680 --> 00:26:38,520
Speaker 5: this is a great email.

498
00:26:38,680 --> 00:26:42,560
Speaker 3: This is fun. So yeah, what's so the context here?

499
00:26:42,800 --> 00:26:48,040
Speaker 6: You've got some reporters who are kind of reaching out

500
00:26:48,080 --> 00:26:57,399
Speaker 6: for comment right about Dershowitz and and Epstein. Norman Norman

501
00:26:57,400 --> 00:27:02,240
Speaker 6: Finkelstein twenty fifteen responds, My guess is, if Epstein put

502
00:27:02,280 --> 00:27:04,600
Speaker 6: your daughter at age fifteen in such a position, you

503
00:27:04,640 --> 00:27:07,879
Speaker 6: wouldn't publicly describe him as a quote friend and person

504
00:27:07,920 --> 00:27:11,040
Speaker 6: of quote integrity. In fact, I would hope that you'd

505
00:27:11,080 --> 00:27:14,639
Speaker 6: promptly throttle both Epstein and Dershowitz.

506
00:27:14,760 --> 00:27:18,680
Speaker 5: Epstein is c seed on this email, by the way, Yes,

507
00:27:18,920 --> 00:27:21,320
Speaker 5: and probably I was just going to say, yeah, I

508
00:27:21,400 --> 00:27:23,600
Speaker 5: bet Dershwitz is one of the redacted names.

509
00:27:23,880 --> 00:27:26,000
Speaker 6: We had Dershwitz on the program a couple of years ago,

510
00:27:26,080 --> 00:27:32,320
Speaker 6: before Rising Rising, and I remember before Finkelstein was so

511
00:27:32,359 --> 00:27:35,160
Speaker 6: the celebrity he rightfully is today. I asked him about

512
00:27:35,600 --> 00:27:40,120
Speaker 6: his The context for this is Dershwitz basically destroyed Finkelstein's

513
00:27:40,119 --> 00:27:44,320
Speaker 6: academic career because he didn't like a review that Finkelstein

514
00:27:45,240 --> 00:27:46,600
Speaker 6: wrote of dershwitz book.

515
00:27:46,640 --> 00:27:48,520
Speaker 4: This is another piece of drop site.

516
00:27:48,359 --> 00:27:52,359
Speaker 6: Reporting well that that was actually that was about the

517
00:27:52,400 --> 00:27:57,960
Speaker 6: Israel lobby merchant, that Epstein and Dershwitz both collaborated to

518
00:27:58,359 --> 00:28:01,159
Speaker 6: try to undermine that the book the Israel lobby with

519
00:28:01,160 --> 00:28:02,240
Speaker 6: Meerscheimer and Walt.

520
00:28:02,320 --> 00:28:04,760
Speaker 4: They probably did the same thing with Singlestein.

521
00:28:04,320 --> 00:28:06,080
Speaker 3: Too well, absolutely, I.

522
00:28:05,840 --> 00:28:07,879
Speaker 4: Am collaborating behind the scenes.

523
00:28:08,800 --> 00:28:11,400
Speaker 6: Was Epstein like involved with going after Finglestein like they

524
00:28:11,400 --> 00:28:15,919
Speaker 6: could like probably yes, Oh the other fun thing, we

525
00:28:15,920 --> 00:28:20,160
Speaker 6: don't have him here. Epstein and Woody Allen hated Alan

526
00:28:20,200 --> 00:28:26,000
Speaker 6: Dershowitz so much that, which is the funniest.

527
00:28:25,720 --> 00:28:27,920
Speaker 4: The girls were gossiping behind his back.

528
00:28:28,160 --> 00:28:31,880
Speaker 6: It's the funniest ending to this that Alan Dershwitz has

529
00:28:32,560 --> 00:28:33,160
Speaker 6: dragged his.

530
00:28:33,160 --> 00:28:36,200
Speaker 3: Own meager reputation through the mud.

531
00:28:36,920 --> 00:28:43,800
Speaker 6: Do defend Woody Allen and Jeffrey Epstein to the bitter end?

532
00:28:44,480 --> 00:28:48,200
Speaker 6: And now to find out they despised the guy. They

533
00:28:48,240 --> 00:28:51,680
Speaker 6: thought he was full of himself the worst. They call

534
00:28:51,720 --> 00:28:54,880
Speaker 6: him a completely shameless name dropper.

535
00:28:55,320 --> 00:28:57,840
Speaker 3: Yea, Like they just go in on him.

536
00:28:57,840 --> 00:29:00,480
Speaker 4: Especially Woody Allen, I mean, and just.

537
00:29:01,000 --> 00:29:03,160
Speaker 3: His wife, because sometimes his wife is writing from what

538
00:29:03,240 --> 00:29:04,800
Speaker 3: he writing for him either one.

539
00:29:04,800 --> 00:29:07,440
Speaker 5: And sometimes she's just emailing as well. It's just a

540
00:29:07,440 --> 00:29:09,560
Speaker 5: lot of sunny and woody in these emails.

541
00:29:09,960 --> 00:29:13,719
Speaker 6: But the and Epstein says to whatdy Allan, No, no,

542
00:29:13,760 --> 00:29:16,040
Speaker 6: he's even worse than you think, and Alan's like, that's

543
00:29:16,120 --> 00:29:16,760
Speaker 6: not possible.

544
00:29:17,240 --> 00:29:19,640
Speaker 4: Like, I'm woody Alan, There is no there.

545
00:29:19,480 --> 00:29:22,440
Speaker 6: Is no bottom to what I think of Alan Derschwitz. Yeah,

546
00:29:22,480 --> 00:29:23,800
Speaker 6: those are his best friends.

547
00:29:25,040 --> 00:29:28,920
Speaker 5: What a team, What a team just going around the world.

548
00:29:29,040 --> 00:29:29,400
Speaker 7: All right.

549
00:29:30,200 --> 00:29:32,360
Speaker 5: There's also an email we should talk about here where

550
00:29:32,760 --> 00:29:37,400
Speaker 5: Jeffrey Epstein March of twenty eighteen, subject line writes to

551
00:29:37,680 --> 00:29:40,840
Speaker 5: a redacted recipient, quote he was passed away.

552
00:29:40,960 --> 00:29:43,800
Speaker 4: That's the subject line, and it's.

553
00:29:43,520 --> 00:29:46,480
Speaker 5: A Actually, it's the quote of an article that I

554
00:29:46,480 --> 00:29:48,800
Speaker 5: think was published in The Mirror in two thousand and two.

555
00:29:49,560 --> 00:29:53,480
Speaker 5: And Epstein put in Robert Maxwell and then went to

556
00:29:53,520 --> 00:29:56,560
Speaker 5: the quote, which is quote threatened Masade. He told him

557
00:29:56,600 --> 00:29:58,640
Speaker 5: that unless they gave him four hundred million pounds to

558
00:29:58,680 --> 00:30:00,600
Speaker 5: save his crumbling empire, he would have expose all he

559
00:30:00,640 --> 00:30:02,240
Speaker 5: had done for them. And that time he had free

560
00:30:02,240 --> 00:30:04,760
Speaker 5: access to Margaret Thatcher's Downing Street, Ronald Reagan's White House,

561
00:30:04,760 --> 00:30:07,720
Speaker 5: to the Kremlin, and to the corridors of power throughout Europe.

562
00:30:07,880 --> 00:30:10,400
Speaker 5: Maxwell passed away, passed on all the secrets he learned

563
00:30:10,440 --> 00:30:14,000
Speaker 5: to Mosad in Tel Aviv. In turn, they tolerated his excesses, vanities,

564
00:30:14,000 --> 00:30:17,320
Speaker 5: and insatiable appetite for luxurious lifestyle and women. He told

565
00:30:17,360 --> 00:30:19,120
Speaker 5: his controllers who they should target and how they should

566
00:30:19,120 --> 00:30:22,040
Speaker 5: do it. Henointed, he appointed himself as Israel's unofficial ambassador

567
00:30:22,120 --> 00:30:23,200
Speaker 5: to the Soviet Bloc.

568
00:30:23,240 --> 00:30:27,600
Speaker 4: And then Ryan this is it's a quote.

569
00:30:28,000 --> 00:30:33,200
Speaker 5: H It's quite interesting that Epstein yes, and then he

570
00:30:33,240 --> 00:30:36,560
Speaker 5: says he was passed away his passive voice as.

571
00:30:36,520 --> 00:30:38,320
Speaker 3: BFF is Maxwell's daughter.

572
00:30:39,680 --> 00:30:45,000
Speaker 6: Before Jeffrey Epstein, there was Robert Maxwell, Like the biggest,

573
00:30:45,320 --> 00:30:49,880
Speaker 6: the most similar scandal to Epstein today is actually Maxwell

574
00:30:49,880 --> 00:30:54,200
Speaker 6: when he was killed, as this is as this is

575
00:30:54,200 --> 00:30:58,800
Speaker 6: the allegation from Epstein Maxwell. And it was similar also

576
00:30:58,880 --> 00:31:02,840
Speaker 6: in the sense that there were so many obvious clues

577
00:31:03,240 --> 00:31:06,960
Speaker 6: that he was in his rarely intelligence asset.

578
00:31:07,360 --> 00:31:08,320
Speaker 3: Including his like.

579
00:31:10,000 --> 00:31:14,160
Speaker 6: His burial, like in Israel at the most prestigious place,

580
00:31:14,520 --> 00:31:18,360
Speaker 6: including Ari Benmnash saying out loud he was an asset

581
00:31:18,360 --> 00:31:22,000
Speaker 6: and I worked directly with him, including all of this evidence,

582
00:31:22,760 --> 00:31:26,400
Speaker 6: and you'd have the press calling it a giant conspiracy theory.

583
00:31:26,480 --> 00:31:28,680
Speaker 6: So it was similar in that sense where and the

584
00:31:28,720 --> 00:31:32,760
Speaker 6: public eventually I think that fought It was like, no, yeah,

585
00:31:32,760 --> 00:31:34,000
Speaker 6: I don't believe the press on this one.

586
00:31:34,200 --> 00:31:35,600
Speaker 3: The conspiracy theory is true.

587
00:31:35,680 --> 00:31:37,920
Speaker 6: And now it's a pretty I don't now it's barely

588
00:31:37,960 --> 00:31:41,120
Speaker 6: even a controversial thing to say that Maxwell wasn't at

589
00:31:41,280 --> 00:31:46,520
Speaker 6: an Israeli asset like he just he just was, and

590
00:31:47,520 --> 00:31:50,720
Speaker 6: he was. He also was, like Epstein, a bit of

591
00:31:50,720 --> 00:31:56,280
Speaker 6: a con artist and a flim flam and and frittered away,

592
00:31:56,520 --> 00:32:00,760
Speaker 6: you know, hundreds of millions of dollars. According to Ben Minash,

593
00:32:00,800 --> 00:32:05,320
Speaker 6: the thing that actually broke his empire was there was

594
00:32:05,360 --> 00:32:11,040
Speaker 6: this intramural dispute with the Israeli weapons traffickers involved in

595
00:32:11,040 --> 00:32:14,880
Speaker 6: Iran Contra, and so they moved their money from banks

596
00:32:14,880 --> 00:32:19,120
Speaker 6: that were guaranteeing Maxwell with the Iran Contra money to

597
00:32:19,280 --> 00:32:21,560
Speaker 6: the East Block so the money would be safe from

598
00:32:21,600 --> 00:32:23,560
Speaker 6: the CIA, which they were now starting to fight with.

599
00:32:24,160 --> 00:32:27,280
Speaker 6: And so once that money got pulled, now Maxwell all

600
00:32:27,280 --> 00:32:31,000
Speaker 6: of a sudden couldn't meet his monthly obligations. Maxwell then

601
00:32:31,160 --> 00:32:35,000
Speaker 6: threatened that he would you blow the whistle on all

602
00:32:35,040 --> 00:32:38,600
Speaker 6: the things that he was doing for them, And just

603
00:32:38,680 --> 00:32:42,800
Speaker 6: a pro tip for assets out there, don't do that.

604
00:32:42,960 --> 00:32:45,600
Speaker 3: Don't You're not going to win that one. Don't do that, like,

605
00:32:46,040 --> 00:32:49,480
Speaker 3: don't don't warn that. If you do it, just do it.

606
00:32:50,120 --> 00:32:55,160
Speaker 6: Don't tell them do x or I'm going to expose

607
00:32:55,200 --> 00:32:56,160
Speaker 6: all of your secrets.

608
00:32:56,200 --> 00:32:56,959
Speaker 3: Don't do that.

609
00:32:58,000 --> 00:33:01,320
Speaker 6: You're not going to make it to that point. If

610
00:33:01,320 --> 00:33:05,920
Speaker 6: you're going to leak stuff, leak it you might while.

611
00:33:05,720 --> 00:33:07,440
Speaker 4: You might end up falling off the back of your gut.

612
00:33:07,560 --> 00:33:09,840
Speaker 6: Don't walk into the room with the whists and be like,

613
00:33:09,920 --> 00:33:11,920
Speaker 6: I'm going to blow this. If you don't give me,

614
00:33:13,400 --> 00:33:15,600
Speaker 6: yeah exactly, you might wind up falling on of a

615
00:33:15,640 --> 00:33:18,560
Speaker 6: window or off the back of your yacht or uh.

616
00:33:19,280 --> 00:33:23,680
Speaker 6: One guy they said he got he'd played tennis, and

617
00:33:23,720 --> 00:33:25,840
Speaker 6: like two days later they said he died of an

618
00:33:25,880 --> 00:33:29,320
Speaker 6: aggressive form of cancer m.

619
00:33:28,400 --> 00:33:30,000
Speaker 3: That he picked up like the day before.

620
00:33:30,720 --> 00:33:34,240
Speaker 6: Like, oh, that's interesting, how that happens.

621
00:33:34,280 --> 00:33:37,160
Speaker 4: One of those things, those crazy things in life.

622
00:33:37,280 --> 00:33:39,479
Speaker 3: So yeah, pro tip, don't do it like this.

623
00:33:39,960 --> 00:33:42,160
Speaker 5: And this is i mean the gist of what it's

624
00:33:42,200 --> 00:33:44,600
Speaker 5: like going through these emails, and it's probably everyone's having

625
00:33:44,600 --> 00:33:48,200
Speaker 5: this experience on social media right now. You're seeing little

626
00:33:49,160 --> 00:33:53,600
Speaker 5: like tidbits in these single emails that like this seemed

627
00:33:53,680 --> 00:33:59,160
Speaker 5: to confirm Epstein buys the conspiracy story. It's not really

628
00:33:59,160 --> 00:34:02,600
Speaker 5: conspiracy anymore, but what has been treated as a conspiracy

629
00:34:02,640 --> 00:34:06,680
Speaker 5: in the past about Robert Maxwell being quote passed away

630
00:34:07,240 --> 00:34:08,000
Speaker 5: and it's just in.

631
00:34:07,960 --> 00:34:09,240
Speaker 4: The subject line of an email.

632
00:34:09,360 --> 00:34:12,560
Speaker 5: So there are it's wrong to call them gems, but

633
00:34:12,719 --> 00:34:15,160
Speaker 5: like gems in the context of a getting to the

634
00:34:15,160 --> 00:34:18,359
Speaker 5: bottom of what's actually going on, they're everywhere. And that's

635
00:34:18,360 --> 00:34:20,400
Speaker 5: what makes it so addicting to be buried in the

636
00:34:20,400 --> 00:34:24,160
Speaker 5: Epstein Library is you never know which silly email riddled

637
00:34:24,200 --> 00:34:27,799
Speaker 5: with typos is going to be so significant and one,

638
00:34:28,280 --> 00:34:31,880
Speaker 5: you know, throwaway email he sent what twenty eighteen?

639
00:34:32,280 --> 00:34:33,279
Speaker 4: It has huge.

640
00:34:33,080 --> 00:34:36,480
Speaker 6: Consequences and it's I love it in the sense that

641
00:34:36,520 --> 00:34:40,799
Speaker 6: its teaching people history and very recent history that is

642
00:34:40,840 --> 00:34:42,160
Speaker 6: still quite relevant to us.

643
00:34:43,239 --> 00:34:44,880
Speaker 3: We're going way long. We should probably move on.

644
00:34:45,080 --> 00:34:45,719
Speaker 4: Yeah, let's do it.

645
00:34:45,800 --> 00:34:49,040
Speaker 3: Yeah. So Van laith is joining us next to talk about.

646
00:34:49,040 --> 00:34:50,279
Speaker 4: Oh no, we have a part two.

647
00:34:50,520 --> 00:34:57,400
Speaker 3: Ice hearings. Congress probed the behavior of ice and hearings yesterday.

648
00:34:58,480 --> 00:35:01,520
Speaker 3: Me or mar Martinez was there, who was shot five

649
00:35:01,640 --> 00:35:04,880
Speaker 3: times by ICE agents in Chicago but survived, one of

650
00:35:04,920 --> 00:35:08,640
Speaker 3: the more high profile survivors of ice violence.

651
00:35:08,840 --> 00:35:10,279
Speaker 6: We're going to be joining in a moment by a

652
00:35:10,280 --> 00:35:12,440
Speaker 6: friend of the show. Van lath And discussed the hearings.

653
00:35:12,520 --> 00:35:16,399
Speaker 6: Let's start first with Martinez up on Capitol Hill.

654
00:35:16,400 --> 00:35:17,040
Speaker 3: This is b one.

655
00:35:17,800 --> 00:35:22,360
Speaker 10: As my attorneys showed the court, the disgusting text messages

656
00:35:22,800 --> 00:35:26,280
Speaker 10: Exem sent to his fellow Border Patrol buddies, literally bragging

657
00:35:26,320 --> 00:35:29,960
Speaker 10: about how many times he shot me. I got stick

658
00:35:30,040 --> 00:35:33,600
Speaker 10: to my stomach. Seeing how a federal law enforcement officer

659
00:35:34,360 --> 00:35:38,480
Speaker 10: will talk this way about shooting me, a woman who

660
00:35:38,600 --> 00:35:44,359
Speaker 10: he swore into was both eye opening and heartbreaking.

661
00:35:44,680 --> 00:35:47,320
Speaker 11: The true that in the body cam footage the CBP

662
00:35:47,440 --> 00:35:49,799
Speaker 11: officer told you too, and I'm so sorry for saying this.

663
00:35:50,880 --> 00:35:54,800
Speaker 11: The author told you to quote do something bitch before

664
00:35:54,800 --> 00:36:01,360
Speaker 11: he fired. Yes, the disgusting, shameful, and it gets worse.

665
00:36:02,120 --> 00:36:02,840
Speaker 7: Ms Martinez.

666
00:36:02,880 --> 00:36:05,919
Speaker 11: These are images of texts sent by the agent who

667
00:36:05,960 --> 00:36:10,360
Speaker 11: shot you, and they're actually were They're actually disturbing.

668
00:36:10,520 --> 00:36:12,280
Speaker 7: To read, but I think it's important for the public

669
00:36:12,280 --> 00:36:12,719
Speaker 7: to see this.

670
00:36:13,480 --> 00:36:17,319
Speaker 11: The agent LinkedIn article about your shooting and texted, read

671
00:36:17,320 --> 00:36:22,960
Speaker 11: it five shots, seven holes. I fired five rounds and

672
00:36:23,040 --> 00:36:24,400
Speaker 11: she had seven holes.

673
00:36:24,880 --> 00:36:25,960
Speaker 7: Put that in your book.

674
00:36:26,000 --> 00:36:31,120
Speaker 11: Boys, Oh well, it is what it is. Shit happens.

675
00:36:33,800 --> 00:36:37,280
Speaker 11: This is someone that works for the United States government.

676
00:36:38,360 --> 00:36:42,000
Speaker 11: I fired five rounds and she had seven holes. Now,

677
00:36:42,000 --> 00:36:45,840
Speaker 11: he was talking about you, and it's our understanding that

678
00:36:45,880 --> 00:36:50,520
Speaker 11: he was actually bragging about his aim shooting an unarmed

679
00:36:51,120 --> 00:36:52,360
Speaker 11: American citizen?

680
00:36:53,440 --> 00:36:53,960
Speaker 7: Is that right?

681
00:36:55,239 --> 00:36:55,680
Speaker 4: Correct?

682
00:36:56,480 --> 00:37:00,799
Speaker 6: And so we're hearing from mir Mar Martinez because she

683
00:37:00,960 --> 00:37:05,000
Speaker 6: survives that attack. We didn't hear from Renana Cole Good,

684
00:37:05,040 --> 00:37:07,360
Speaker 6: though we heard from some family members. Didn't hear obviously

685
00:37:07,360 --> 00:37:12,239
Speaker 6: from Alex Pretty who's no longer here to testify. But Van,

686
00:37:13,080 --> 00:37:16,520
Speaker 6: I'm curious when it comes to your when it comes

687
00:37:16,520 --> 00:37:22,000
Speaker 6: to your audience, is this level of brutality kind of

688
00:37:22,040 --> 00:37:25,160
Speaker 6: breaking through? And how have you how have you seen

689
00:37:25,239 --> 00:37:28,319
Speaker 6: the conversation around immigration enforcement change?

690
00:37:28,320 --> 00:37:30,000
Speaker 3: And also welcome to the program.

691
00:37:31,000 --> 00:37:33,759
Speaker 12: Oh, thank you very much, glad to have you back.

692
00:37:34,040 --> 00:37:35,400
Speaker 12: I hope you had a good time down there. I

693
00:37:35,480 --> 00:37:37,040
Speaker 12: see no tank. There was work to be done.

694
00:37:37,080 --> 00:37:37,520
Speaker 7: I can tell.

695
00:37:37,600 --> 00:37:38,200
Speaker 3: I'm feeling good.

696
00:37:38,239 --> 00:37:43,480
Speaker 7: And now what I'm seeing from my audience is rage.

697
00:37:43,960 --> 00:37:48,160
Speaker 12: I'm seeing rage, and I'm seeing a sort of wake

698
00:37:48,239 --> 00:37:53,040
Speaker 12: up call. Now, Ms Martinez, you guys just featured her.

699
00:37:53,080 --> 00:37:55,759
Speaker 12: That was a story that I saw you guys cover

700
00:37:56,160 --> 00:37:59,640
Speaker 12: that I saw majority report cover. I saw a lot

701
00:37:59,640 --> 00:38:03,080
Speaker 12: of play in independent news media cover, but I did

702
00:38:03,080 --> 00:38:06,600
Speaker 12: not see too much coverage of what happened to her

703
00:38:06,920 --> 00:38:10,880
Speaker 12: anywhere else. I say that to say that I think

704
00:38:11,000 --> 00:38:16,560
Speaker 12: that there were overreaches, brutality and violations of the Constitution

705
00:38:17,080 --> 00:38:21,520
Speaker 12: by ICE prior to Renee Good that the general public

706
00:38:22,000 --> 00:38:22,799
Speaker 12: wasn't aware of.

707
00:38:23,520 --> 00:38:25,200
Speaker 7: I don't think they understood.

708
00:38:25,280 --> 00:38:29,239
Speaker 12: I think they people got the sense in cities, particularly

709
00:38:29,320 --> 00:38:33,160
Speaker 12: with large ICE deployments, of how you know, ICE was

710
00:38:33,280 --> 00:38:39,280
Speaker 12: you know, roaming their communities and papers please sort of culture,

711
00:38:40,480 --> 00:38:43,759
Speaker 12: scaring people that they share their communities with, and there

712
00:38:43,760 --> 00:38:44,959
Speaker 12: were headlines being made.

713
00:38:45,520 --> 00:38:47,279
Speaker 7: Don't don't don't get me wrong, but.

714
00:38:47,239 --> 00:38:50,520
Speaker 12: As far as ICE agents taking out their guns, shooting

715
00:38:50,560 --> 00:38:54,239
Speaker 12: people and putting their lives in danger, American citizens and

716
00:38:54,320 --> 00:38:57,360
Speaker 12: undocumented people, I think that Renee Good and alex Pretty

717
00:38:57,440 --> 00:38:59,200
Speaker 12: was a wake up call to those people, and I

718
00:38:59,280 --> 00:39:00,640
Speaker 12: do not think they're as a way to put the

719
00:39:00,640 --> 00:39:01,600
Speaker 12: genie back in the bottom.

720
00:39:01,920 --> 00:39:04,880
Speaker 5: Let's roll this clip of renee Good's family testifying at

721
00:39:04,920 --> 00:39:06,200
Speaker 5: the same hearing yesterday.

722
00:39:06,280 --> 00:39:10,319
Speaker 13: B two, my name is Luke Ganger, and I'm here

723
00:39:10,360 --> 00:39:19,360
Speaker 13: with my brother Brent. Renee Good is our sister. We're

724
00:39:19,520 --> 00:39:23,919
Speaker 13: here on behalf of Nay's big family and those who

725
00:39:23,960 --> 00:39:32,040
Speaker 13: loved her. We're here to ask for your help. I

726
00:39:32,200 --> 00:39:37,399
Speaker 13: was talking to my four year old last week when

727
00:39:37,400 --> 00:39:41,080
Speaker 13: she noticed I was not doing well. I had to

728
00:39:41,080 --> 00:39:46,200
Speaker 13: come here today and talk to some important people. She

729
00:39:46,360 --> 00:39:51,120
Speaker 13: knows that her aunt died and that somebody caused it

730
00:39:51,160 --> 00:39:55,600
Speaker 13: to happen. The deep distress our family feels because of

731
00:39:55,880 --> 00:40:01,760
Speaker 13: Nay's loss is in such a violent and unnecessary way,

732
00:40:02,800 --> 00:40:11,960
Speaker 13: is complicated by feelings of disbelief, distress, and desperation for change.

733
00:40:12,800 --> 00:40:16,600
Speaker 13: In the last few weeks, our family took some consolation

734
00:40:18,520 --> 00:40:23,520
Speaker 13: thinking that perhaps Nay's death would bring about change in

735
00:40:23,560 --> 00:40:33,560
Speaker 13: our country, and it is not. The completely surreal scenes

736
00:40:33,680 --> 00:40:39,120
Speaker 13: taking place on the streets of Minneapolis are beyond explanation.

737
00:40:41,320 --> 00:40:45,120
Speaker 13: This is not just a bad day or a rough

738
00:40:45,200 --> 00:40:53,400
Speaker 13: week or isolated incidents. These encounters with federal agents are

739
00:40:53,480 --> 00:40:59,560
Speaker 13: changing the community and changing many lives, including ours, forever.

740
00:41:00,360 --> 00:41:04,240
Speaker 5: So Van, I kind of disagree, respectfully with Renee Good's

741
00:41:04,239 --> 00:41:07,680
Speaker 5: brother there on the point he's making about feeling as

742
00:41:07,760 --> 00:41:11,800
Speaker 5: though her death has not brought about change. Public opinion

743
00:41:12,120 --> 00:41:14,520
Speaker 5: has put a lot of pressure on the Trump administration,

744
00:41:14,719 --> 00:41:18,200
Speaker 5: and that really, I mean, the Renee Good death was

745
00:41:18,280 --> 00:41:22,000
Speaker 5: the moment that changed from my vantage point at least,

746
00:41:22,040 --> 00:41:23,560
Speaker 5: I'm curious what you make of that. And one thing

747
00:41:23,600 --> 00:41:26,359
Speaker 5: I wanted to ask too is people talk and we've

748
00:41:26,360 --> 00:41:29,000
Speaker 5: talked here about the kind of dem Tea Party moment.

749
00:41:29,480 --> 00:41:32,120
Speaker 5: It feels to me like the abolish Ice movement has

750
00:41:32,160 --> 00:41:36,000
Speaker 5: become a really critical part of like Obamacare for the

751
00:41:36,040 --> 00:41:40,040
Speaker 5: Tea Party movement was that rallying policy question. It feels

752
00:41:40,040 --> 00:41:42,080
Speaker 5: to me like abolish Ice has kind of emerged as

753
00:41:42,360 --> 00:41:44,720
Speaker 5: that for the Tea Party moment.

754
00:41:46,600 --> 00:41:49,120
Speaker 7: Yeah, so I'll take your first question first.

755
00:41:50,200 --> 00:41:54,680
Speaker 12: I tend to agree with you, I think from his

756
00:41:54,840 --> 00:41:59,160
Speaker 12: vantage point, and I hate to speak for him, but

757
00:41:59,280 --> 00:42:02,239
Speaker 12: when you are the victim of an injustice that's as

758
00:42:02,280 --> 00:42:07,600
Speaker 12: profound as the loss of a family member, then the

759
00:42:07,640 --> 00:42:12,920
Speaker 12: only elixir is for the source of that injustice to

760
00:42:12,960 --> 00:42:15,960
Speaker 12: be held accountable and then for that to stop. It

761
00:42:16,000 --> 00:42:19,960
Speaker 12: will probably be difficult for somebody that's dealing with that

762
00:42:20,000 --> 00:42:24,200
Speaker 12: type of tragedy to see what we're seeing, which is

763
00:42:25,080 --> 00:42:30,239
Speaker 12: that event being a flash point for really a political

764
00:42:30,360 --> 00:42:33,600
Speaker 12: and cultural awakening for a lot of people in terms

765
00:42:33,640 --> 00:42:37,480
Speaker 12: of how far ice has gone, what Ice really represents

766
00:42:37,560 --> 00:42:41,520
Speaker 12: right now. You're seeing it in all the podcast spaces

767
00:42:41,560 --> 00:42:43,680
Speaker 12: with a lot of the guys who are part of

768
00:42:43,800 --> 00:42:47,680
Speaker 12: laundering Trump's reputation prior to the election, and just how

769
00:42:47,680 --> 00:42:51,239
Speaker 12: they're being held accountable by their audiences for what they

770
00:42:51,400 --> 00:42:53,600
Speaker 12: told people they should do, which is go out and

771
00:42:53,640 --> 00:42:58,680
Speaker 12: support this regime. All of that's political. I think what

772
00:42:58,719 --> 00:43:02,080
Speaker 12: would be cathartic to that, gentlemen, probably is to see

773
00:43:02,400 --> 00:43:06,720
Speaker 12: one there be accountability in the death of his loved one,

774
00:43:06,960 --> 00:43:10,280
Speaker 12: and on top of that, to see ice abuses stop

775
00:43:10,520 --> 00:43:12,800
Speaker 12: or for there to be some plan for them to stop.

776
00:43:13,080 --> 00:43:16,040
Speaker 7: And we, frankly haven't seen that quite yet.

777
00:43:16,040 --> 00:43:19,080
Speaker 12: We've seen a lot of political tug of war happening,

778
00:43:19,120 --> 00:43:23,240
Speaker 12: but nothing that seems like an answer to the problem

779
00:43:23,440 --> 00:43:28,759
Speaker 12: of how they're being deployed in certain cities. To your

780
00:43:28,800 --> 00:43:32,200
Speaker 12: second question, which I have totally forgotten in that little

781
00:43:32,320 --> 00:43:34,520
Speaker 12: articulate and eloquent rant, what was.

782
00:43:34,440 --> 00:43:35,520
Speaker 7: It again about?

783
00:43:35,560 --> 00:43:37,960
Speaker 5: How so you have some Democrats voting with Republicans on

784
00:43:38,000 --> 00:43:42,280
Speaker 5: the shutdown yesterday and basically the demp tea party moment

785
00:43:42,600 --> 00:43:45,960
Speaker 5: seems to me like it's coalescing around abolish ice and

786
00:43:46,040 --> 00:43:49,839
Speaker 5: the way the Republican tea Party was coalescing around Obamacare.

787
00:43:49,840 --> 00:43:51,400
Speaker 4: And I just wanted to get your thoughts on that.

788
00:43:52,800 --> 00:44:00,200
Speaker 12: Yeah, that's funny. How can I be that's funny? The

789
00:44:00,280 --> 00:44:02,560
Speaker 12: Democrats don't.

790
00:44:02,320 --> 00:44:07,440
Speaker 4: Get it, and it's I feel like you're about to

791
00:44:07,480 --> 00:44:08,280
Speaker 4: uncork something.

792
00:44:08,320 --> 00:44:11,200
Speaker 7: Then no, no, it's you know.

793
00:44:11,239 --> 00:44:14,360
Speaker 12: I had a homeboy back in the day, and he

794
00:44:14,440 --> 00:44:17,360
Speaker 12: used to like to, you know, have an occasional drink

795
00:44:18,480 --> 00:44:22,320
Speaker 12: on Sunday night, you know, you come and he he

796
00:44:22,400 --> 00:44:25,680
Speaker 12: polished off three or four twelve packs and he'd be like,

797
00:44:26,000 --> 00:44:28,640
Speaker 12: he's a light he's a light drinker. I remember his

798
00:44:29,200 --> 00:44:34,399
Speaker 12: girl telling him, hey, enough, like enough enough of it,

799
00:44:34,640 --> 00:44:37,560
Speaker 12: like everybody had had enough. And I remember talking to him,

800
00:44:37,560 --> 00:44:40,480
Speaker 12: talking to him. We go out one time and he goes, hey, man,

801
00:44:40,520 --> 00:44:42,719
Speaker 12: I'm just gonna stay around here. I was gonna have

802
00:44:42,760 --> 00:44:45,880
Speaker 12: a couple of I'm like, nah, man, you have an issue.

803
00:44:45,960 --> 00:44:48,560
Speaker 12: You have a problem. We're dealing with you in love.

804
00:44:48,640 --> 00:44:50,600
Speaker 12: But I'm telling you, this is a serious thing. You're

805
00:44:50,600 --> 00:44:52,840
Speaker 12: gonna lose your family. I'm telling you. I'm telling you,

806
00:44:52,920 --> 00:44:56,160
Speaker 12: I'm telling you. And it wasn't until he was seeing

807
00:44:56,200 --> 00:44:59,719
Speaker 12: his kids at Barnes and Noble that he really got

808
00:44:59,760 --> 00:45:03,279
Speaker 12: the the idea that she wanted something different and he

809
00:45:03,360 --> 00:45:06,200
Speaker 12: had a serious problem. The problem was a part of

810
00:45:06,200 --> 00:45:08,799
Speaker 12: his makeup and it was time to address it. I

811
00:45:08,880 --> 00:45:13,480
Speaker 12: wonder when the Democrats are going to see themselves in

812
00:45:13,520 --> 00:45:16,400
Speaker 12: the mirror, like when they're going to what Barnes and

813
00:45:16,440 --> 00:45:19,040
Speaker 12: Noble visitation or we're going to have to arrange for

814
00:45:19,120 --> 00:45:23,040
Speaker 12: them for them to see that they are orphaning their base.

815
00:45:27,520 --> 00:45:29,839
Speaker 12: As you see me search for words. I really don't

816
00:45:29,880 --> 00:45:32,120
Speaker 12: know how to articulate it. They do not get it.

817
00:45:33,160 --> 00:45:37,680
Speaker 12: We're not going for it. That's it. We're not going

818
00:45:37,719 --> 00:45:40,840
Speaker 12: for it. We're not going for it. It can't be negotiated.

819
00:45:42,160 --> 00:45:45,239
Speaker 12: There's so many things that we're not going for, Like,

820
00:45:45,320 --> 00:45:49,000
Speaker 12: it can't be negotiated. You can't talk nice about it.

821
00:45:49,080 --> 00:45:52,400
Speaker 12: I'm wear that up on the hill everybody. There's all

822
00:45:52,400 --> 00:45:55,040
Speaker 12: these histrionics and then they all go out and have

823
00:45:55,080 --> 00:45:57,400
Speaker 12: a stake together and go to Epstein's house and all

824
00:45:57,440 --> 00:45:59,160
Speaker 12: of that stuff like that. I get that that's how

825
00:45:59,239 --> 00:46:03,200
Speaker 12: it goes. But like at this point, right now, that's over.

826
00:46:04,080 --> 00:46:07,720
Speaker 12: We want this to stop. And how much ever pain

827
00:46:08,480 --> 00:46:12,800
Speaker 12: has to happen to the general American public and project

828
00:46:13,480 --> 00:46:15,160
Speaker 12: for this to be headed off.

829
00:46:15,320 --> 00:46:17,439
Speaker 7: For this, for this part of.

830
00:46:17,320 --> 00:46:21,240
Speaker 12: It, Ice Ice overreaches for us to say, hey, abolish this.

831
00:46:21,239 --> 00:46:23,920
Speaker 12: This can't be reformed. The guts of it have to

832
00:46:23,960 --> 00:46:28,319
Speaker 12: be torn up, torn up. Immigration enforcement is a part

833
00:46:28,480 --> 00:46:31,520
Speaker 12: of having a country you have. You're gonna have borders,

834
00:46:31,600 --> 00:46:35,560
Speaker 12: You're gonna have integration, immigration reform, and reform and enforcement

835
00:46:35,560 --> 00:46:37,279
Speaker 12: excuse me, enforcement, should I say?

836
00:46:37,880 --> 00:46:37,960
Speaker 4: You?

837
00:46:37,960 --> 00:46:39,120
Speaker 7: Guys pissed me off with the question.

838
00:46:39,160 --> 00:46:41,520
Speaker 12: I'm so mad at the at the Democrats, and I'm

839
00:46:41,520 --> 00:46:44,719
Speaker 12: not coming across as articulate as I would want to.

840
00:46:45,080 --> 00:46:49,759
Speaker 12: But I have conversations with politicians. I talked to them

841
00:46:49,760 --> 00:46:52,920
Speaker 12: a lot. They called me, and they honestly don't get it.

842
00:46:53,680 --> 00:46:57,560
Speaker 12: They are still in the phase of this where they

843
00:46:57,600 --> 00:47:02,680
Speaker 12: are attempting to launder the reputation of ice to convince

844
00:47:02,760 --> 00:47:06,040
Speaker 12: me and other people like me the usefulness of ice,

845
00:47:06,600 --> 00:47:12,800
Speaker 12: where they're attempting to soft pedal it, and it really

846
00:47:12,920 --> 00:47:16,759
Speaker 12: is I'm not even baffled. I'm fascinated, right. I think

847
00:47:16,800 --> 00:47:18,919
Speaker 12: that a lot of people, if they had the conversations

848
00:47:18,920 --> 00:47:24,520
Speaker 12: that I had, they would be gobsmacked by some of

849
00:47:24,520 --> 00:47:27,359
Speaker 12: the political weakness. And I get it. It's complicated. I

850
00:47:27,440 --> 00:47:30,719
Speaker 12: understand that it's complicated. But I was on the phone

851
00:47:30,760 --> 00:47:33,239
Speaker 12: with somebody a couple of days ago. I said, man,

852
00:47:34,080 --> 00:47:40,279
Speaker 12: figure out what the figure out what desperate looks like,

853
00:47:40,560 --> 00:47:45,319
Speaker 12: figure out what truly obstructionists looks like. Figure out what

854
00:47:45,400 --> 00:47:49,680
Speaker 12: ten is and go there, figure out what ten is.

855
00:47:49,800 --> 00:47:52,480
Speaker 12: If there are all kinds of things, ICE is funded

856
00:47:52,480 --> 00:47:54,240
Speaker 12: for a long time, I get it, all that stuff,

857
00:47:54,400 --> 00:47:57,319
Speaker 12: figure out what ten is and go there. Because the

858
00:47:57,440 --> 00:48:01,680
Speaker 12: disconnect between what I feel like the political intelligency of

859
00:48:01,760 --> 00:48:08,000
Speaker 12: the left in Washington. That disconnect as it relates to

860
00:48:08,680 --> 00:48:11,200
Speaker 12: the people that I'm having conversations with that listen to

861
00:48:11,239 --> 00:48:11,839
Speaker 12: my show that.

862
00:48:11,840 --> 00:48:14,400
Speaker 7: Taught to me, it's vast.

863
00:48:15,920 --> 00:48:18,319
Speaker 12: They're talking about this issue as if it's regular, where

864
00:48:18,320 --> 00:48:21,000
Speaker 12: there are people who are seeing Americans killed on the street,

865
00:48:21,160 --> 00:48:22,600
Speaker 12: and they're like, what are you guys gonna do?

866
00:48:23,280 --> 00:48:25,080
Speaker 6: And it feels like for a while, and tell me

867
00:48:25,120 --> 00:48:27,120
Speaker 6: if this connects with what your conversation had been like

868
00:48:27,320 --> 00:48:31,000
Speaker 6: feeling for a while, Democrats thought their answer needed to

869
00:48:31,040 --> 00:48:34,680
Speaker 6: be to grow a beard and start using profanity.

870
00:48:34,800 --> 00:48:36,760
Speaker 3: Yes, and like that.

871
00:48:36,560 --> 00:48:42,200
Speaker 6: That was gonna show like how serious they were about changing,

872
00:48:42,960 --> 00:48:46,319
Speaker 6: you know, their approach to Trump and to and to politics.

873
00:48:47,880 --> 00:48:49,680
Speaker 6: I see, I can't tell if I see a little

874
00:48:49,680 --> 00:48:51,840
Speaker 6: bit less of that. Like they started realizing, okay, it

875
00:48:51,920 --> 00:48:56,320
Speaker 6: actually it's not authentic, and like if it's not coupled

876
00:48:56,360 --> 00:49:00,719
Speaker 6: with something meaningful, it doesn't doesn't really land. And so

877
00:49:00,800 --> 00:49:02,279
Speaker 6: maybe this is like an answer to what they could do,

878
00:49:02,360 --> 00:49:10,680
Speaker 6: Like the Maga movement. They they were serious about changing

879
00:49:10,719 --> 00:49:14,239
Speaker 6: the country. They like they told you, if we get

880
00:49:14,280 --> 00:49:17,319
Speaker 6: into power, we're doing We're doing We're gonna build the wall,

881
00:49:17,360 --> 00:49:20,279
Speaker 6: We're gonna do mass deportation, we're gonna do tariffs. Like

882
00:49:20,320 --> 00:49:26,719
Speaker 6: they had these big ideas that stood in for the

883
00:49:26,760 --> 00:49:28,879
Speaker 6: expression of the anger that people had, Like you've got

884
00:49:28,880 --> 00:49:31,360
Speaker 6: this anger, and we're gonna do these big fundamental things.

885
00:49:32,560 --> 00:49:35,799
Speaker 6: Democrats don't seem to have that, Like they've got profanity

886
00:49:35,880 --> 00:49:39,000
Speaker 6: some of them. Some of them have grown beards, but

887
00:49:39,040 --> 00:49:42,200
Speaker 6: they're not really there's nothing that you can grab onto

888
00:49:43,040 --> 00:49:45,040
Speaker 6: that you can say, Oh, if they get into power,

889
00:49:46,719 --> 00:49:48,759
Speaker 6: this is how the anger that I have a what's

890
00:49:48,800 --> 00:49:51,880
Speaker 6: going on is going to be expressed abolished. Ice would

891
00:49:51,960 --> 00:49:55,919
Speaker 6: be one of those things to say, like ice is irredeemable,

892
00:49:55,960 --> 00:49:56,719
Speaker 6: We're getting rid of it.

893
00:49:56,760 --> 00:49:58,360
Speaker 3: We're still doing immigration enforcement.

894
00:49:58,600 --> 00:50:02,239
Speaker 6: But this rogue agency that's killing people in the streets

895
00:50:03,000 --> 00:50:06,560
Speaker 6: like CBPS actually like killing more people in the streets.

896
00:50:07,000 --> 00:50:07,880
Speaker 3: Deal with that separately.

897
00:50:08,400 --> 00:50:11,319
Speaker 6: Uh, they gotta go like something like that, like does

898
00:50:11,360 --> 00:50:13,920
Speaker 6: that does that track that? Like they feel like they

899
00:50:13,920 --> 00:50:15,360
Speaker 6: feel like all they have to do is channel the

900
00:50:15,400 --> 00:50:21,680
Speaker 6: anger by sounding angry themselves, but without any kind of

901
00:50:21,760 --> 00:50:23,080
Speaker 6: meaning or substance behind it.

902
00:50:24,280 --> 00:50:24,360
Speaker 4: Uh.

903
00:50:24,520 --> 00:50:26,719
Speaker 12: I think you're you're you're dead on and I think

904
00:50:26,840 --> 00:50:31,239
Speaker 12: that comes or that exists because they have for so.

905
00:50:31,360 --> 00:50:34,160
Speaker 7: Long been a harm reduction party mm hm.

906
00:50:34,600 --> 00:50:40,200
Speaker 12: And that robs you a vision, right, the Republican Maga,

907
00:50:40,440 --> 00:50:44,520
Speaker 12: Trump is and wing they provided a vision to America. Now,

908
00:50:44,600 --> 00:50:46,360
Speaker 12: in my opinion and opinion of a lot of people,

909
00:50:46,360 --> 00:50:49,239
Speaker 12: that vision was grotesque, but it was a vision, nonetheless,

910
00:50:49,920 --> 00:50:52,600
Speaker 12: and behind that vision, in order for them to be

911
00:50:53,840 --> 00:50:56,719
Speaker 12: taken seriously, there had to be action. Now that action

912
00:50:56,880 --> 00:51:02,680
Speaker 12: is disorganized, it violates the constant, it's inhumane, it's the

913
00:51:03,000 --> 00:51:06,080
Speaker 12: entire list of things. But it had to exist, it

914
00:51:06,160 --> 00:51:13,560
Speaker 12: had to be there. Abolished, ice is vision, defund the police.

915
00:51:14,120 --> 00:51:17,360
Speaker 12: I know you guys don't like it. That's a vision statement,

916
00:51:17,480 --> 00:51:21,520
Speaker 12: that's a statement idea. It's a big idea, right, It's

917
00:51:21,560 --> 00:51:26,319
Speaker 12: it's something that says, hey, let's reimagine that and this

918
00:51:26,440 --> 00:51:27,000
Speaker 12: and whatever.

919
00:51:27,440 --> 00:51:28,759
Speaker 7: Is it the most popular thing?

920
00:51:29,160 --> 00:51:29,239
Speaker 4: No?

921
00:51:29,840 --> 00:51:32,359
Speaker 12: Is it something that should have been discussed for the

922
00:51:32,440 --> 00:51:36,520
Speaker 12: merits of what it actually was. Yes, are some of

923
00:51:36,560 --> 00:51:41,239
Speaker 12: these things jarring and shaking to the milk toast Boulet

924
00:51:41,760 --> 00:51:45,960
Speaker 12: bourgeoise person who doesn't want to see society set on

925
00:51:46,080 --> 00:51:49,200
Speaker 12: flames and reimagine cool, get all of that.

926
00:51:49,800 --> 00:51:52,719
Speaker 7: The question is what's your version of that? Like, what

927
00:51:52,920 --> 00:51:53,680
Speaker 7: is your vision?

928
00:51:54,080 --> 00:51:57,759
Speaker 12: Okay, we know that this needs to stop. How do

929
00:51:57,840 --> 00:52:02,440
Speaker 12: you imagine it stopping? How do you imagine immigration enforcement?

930
00:52:03,200 --> 00:52:06,680
Speaker 12: How do you imagine a path to citizenship? How do

931
00:52:06,760 --> 00:52:09,719
Speaker 12: you imagine humanity for people that we share borders with?

932
00:52:10,239 --> 00:52:14,279
Speaker 12: What is your version of this? And it's very difficult.

933
00:52:14,560 --> 00:52:19,960
Speaker 12: They are so concerned with not being rude that it

934
00:52:20,000 --> 00:52:23,200
Speaker 12: seems like they care more about that than actual victory

935
00:52:23,239 --> 00:52:26,320
Speaker 12: and the protection of the people who put them in power.

936
00:52:26,760 --> 00:52:29,000
Speaker 5: And in the politics of it, the political value of

937
00:52:29,040 --> 00:52:32,240
Speaker 5: being able to milk the energy to have the hearing

938
00:52:32,600 --> 00:52:36,480
Speaker 5: like they put together yesterday without putting their policy, like

939
00:52:36,520 --> 00:52:39,760
Speaker 5: you said, whatever they're reimagining, putting it on the table,

940
00:52:40,200 --> 00:52:44,080
Speaker 5: you can talk and end up never actually Republicans of

941
00:52:44,120 --> 00:52:46,439
Speaker 5: this with Obamaca, it's a perfect parallel. They never put

942
00:52:46,480 --> 00:52:48,800
Speaker 5: anything right now, they don't have anything. It's been fifteen

943
00:52:48,840 --> 00:52:50,840
Speaker 5: years right.

944
00:52:50,760 --> 00:52:56,480
Speaker 12: Because their resistance to Obamacare has nothing to do with

945
00:52:56,520 --> 00:52:59,480
Speaker 12: what we're trying to talk about, which is how are

946
00:52:59,560 --> 00:53:04,040
Speaker 12: people going to get to the doctor. Yeah, okay, Like

947
00:53:04,120 --> 00:53:07,399
Speaker 12: how are people going to get care? And I think

948
00:53:07,440 --> 00:53:11,880
Speaker 12: that really on both sides of this, there.

949
00:53:11,719 --> 00:53:13,000
Speaker 7: Is something happening.

950
00:53:13,160 --> 00:53:18,720
Speaker 12: And I really desperately hope that we can take advantage

951
00:53:18,760 --> 00:53:22,279
Speaker 12: of the moment people that want to live in a

952
00:53:22,360 --> 00:53:25,279
Speaker 12: society of freedom, that people are really getting to a

953
00:53:25,320 --> 00:53:28,200
Speaker 12: point where they're starting to ask a question. And it's

954
00:53:28,200 --> 00:53:31,920
Speaker 12: a question that all Americans should always have asked themselves,

955
00:53:32,440 --> 00:53:35,040
Speaker 12: but it's a hard question to ask, like what's in

956
00:53:35,080 --> 00:53:38,120
Speaker 12: this for me? I think the biggest thing about the

957
00:53:39,360 --> 00:53:42,920
Speaker 12: what ICE is doing in the overreaches is people are

958
00:53:42,920 --> 00:53:48,440
Speaker 12: seeing in their communities, in their societies dysfunction and chaos,

959
00:53:48,719 --> 00:53:53,799
Speaker 12: and they're going, is this changing my life? And are

960
00:53:53,840 --> 00:53:58,880
Speaker 12: things cheaper? Are societies better? Or are you injecting a

961
00:53:58,920 --> 00:54:02,920
Speaker 12: whole bunch of chaos into my world for political reasons?

962
00:54:02,920 --> 00:54:07,680
Speaker 12: For your power? We voted for a long time to uh,

963
00:54:08,239 --> 00:54:12,600
Speaker 12: I guess we know what's in it for Trump, we

964
00:54:12,680 --> 00:54:14,759
Speaker 12: know what's in it for Chuck Schumer, we know what's

965
00:54:14,760 --> 00:54:17,080
Speaker 12: in it for all of these people. They get power,

966
00:54:17,200 --> 00:54:20,560
Speaker 12: they get to continue to pull the strings of society.

967
00:54:20,600 --> 00:54:22,480
Speaker 7: We'll just ask yourself, like, what's in it for you?

968
00:54:22,600 --> 00:54:23,239
Speaker 7: What have you.

969
00:54:23,200 --> 00:54:25,920
Speaker 12: Gotten for this? Have you gotten better medical care? Do

970
00:54:26,040 --> 00:54:28,880
Speaker 12: you get lower grocery prices? What's the is any of

971
00:54:28,960 --> 00:54:31,600
Speaker 12: this working for you? And I think on both sides

972
00:54:31,600 --> 00:54:33,759
Speaker 12: of the aisle people are going it doesn't seem like

973
00:54:33,800 --> 00:54:35,279
Speaker 12: anyone's really thinking about me.

974
00:54:35,800 --> 00:54:39,359
Speaker 3: Yep, Ben, Always a pleasure to have you on. Look

975
00:54:39,360 --> 00:54:42,480
Speaker 3: forward to your next to Parents Higher Learning podcast.

976
00:54:42,600 --> 00:54:45,120
Speaker 6: Everybody check it out. Thanks so much for joining us.

977
00:54:45,520 --> 00:54:46,000
Speaker 7: No problem.

978
00:54:46,040 --> 00:54:47,600
Speaker 12: I would have hack because next time I want to come,

979
00:54:47,640 --> 00:54:49,600
Speaker 12: I want to fish. I want to fish and go

980
00:54:49,640 --> 00:54:52,800
Speaker 12: to fish fishing today and then we go to fish

981
00:54:52,840 --> 00:54:53,400
Speaker 12: in the evening.

982
00:54:53,440 --> 00:54:54,680
Speaker 7: Ryan, don't leave me out, brother.

983
00:54:55,239 --> 00:54:58,400
Speaker 6: You're in, You're in the crow, all right, say all

984
00:54:58,440 --> 00:55:02,480
Speaker 6: right up. Next, Iran talks are moving to Oman. Is

985
00:55:02,480 --> 00:55:05,000
Speaker 6: it just a they just like faking this so they

986
00:55:05,000 --> 00:55:07,840
Speaker 6: can get their assets in place to bomb Tehran again?

987
00:55:07,960 --> 00:55:09,359
Speaker 3: Probably we'll talk about it next.

988
00:55:12,360 --> 00:55:15,320
Speaker 5: Details out of the Arabian Sea. Let's put this first

989
00:55:15,320 --> 00:55:18,000
Speaker 5: element up on the screen. As Fox News says, here,

990
00:55:18,040 --> 00:55:21,439
Speaker 5: the US military shot down and unmanned Iranian drone after quote,

991
00:55:21,480 --> 00:55:25,840
Speaker 5: it aggressively approached a US Navy aircraft carrier with unclear intent.

992
00:55:26,280 --> 00:55:30,120
Speaker 5: A US Central Command spokesperson told Fox News. The USS

993
00:55:30,200 --> 00:55:34,200
Speaker 5: Abraham Lincoln was transiting the Arabian Sea, approximately five hundred

994
00:55:34,200 --> 00:55:37,600
Speaker 5: miles from iran southern coast, when in Iranian had one

995
00:55:37,719 --> 00:55:41,920
Speaker 5: thirty nine drone unnecessarily maneuvered toward the ship. According to

996
00:55:42,120 --> 00:55:46,960
Speaker 5: that spokesperson for Centcom Ryan, this is a reminder of

997
00:55:47,040 --> 00:55:51,640
Speaker 5: how fragile the conditions in the Middle East star right now.

998
00:55:51,760 --> 00:55:54,239
Speaker 5: And I know a lot of people on the right

999
00:55:54,320 --> 00:55:57,000
Speaker 5: who are disappointed that Trump has not made good on

1000
00:55:57,040 --> 00:56:01,480
Speaker 5: his promises in Iran. But reminders they got a drone,

1001
00:56:01,600 --> 00:56:05,160
Speaker 5: Reminders of plenty, yes, they got a drone. Of how quickly, quickly,

1002
00:56:05,239 --> 00:56:08,839
Speaker 5: quickly this can escalate the second an American is hurt,

1003
00:56:09,040 --> 00:56:11,440
Speaker 5: you have a different, completely different war.

1004
00:56:12,160 --> 00:56:16,680
Speaker 6: The the like asymmetry here as wild. Like if you try,

1005
00:56:16,760 --> 00:56:18,799
Speaker 6: if we try to add up the amount of money

1006
00:56:18,920 --> 00:56:23,280
Speaker 6: the US spent to shoot down this was it twenty

1007
00:56:23,280 --> 00:56:27,320
Speaker 6: thousand dollars drone, It would reach into well into the

1008
00:56:27,360 --> 00:56:29,719
Speaker 6: probably hundreds of millions. I mean if you count the

1009
00:56:29,760 --> 00:56:32,880
Speaker 6: billion dollar aircraft. Although we can keep aircraft carry we

1010
00:56:32,880 --> 00:56:37,320
Speaker 6: can keep using that the missiles, the like, the equipment

1011
00:56:38,719 --> 00:56:42,160
Speaker 6: this is this is a fundamental material problem for the

1012
00:56:42,280 --> 00:56:46,520
Speaker 6: US going forward, that it's up against it's up against

1013
00:56:46,920 --> 00:56:52,120
Speaker 6: this new cheap drone warfare with and it is using

1014
00:56:52,719 --> 00:56:59,319
Speaker 6: it's older like multi billion dollar assets. We're in a

1015
00:56:59,320 --> 00:57:01,680
Speaker 6: war of attrition with somebody who can actually produce them

1016
00:57:02,400 --> 00:57:07,040
Speaker 6: like consistently, like China. Like we've run out of like

1017
00:57:07,080 --> 00:57:09,400
Speaker 6: ten million dollars missiles pretty quickly, and they can just

1018
00:57:09,440 --> 00:57:11,400
Speaker 6: keep slapping together these drones.

1019
00:57:11,760 --> 00:57:13,920
Speaker 5: And I will see in this case, like there's a

1020
00:57:14,160 --> 00:57:15,960
Speaker 5: you and I made disagree on this, but there's I

1021
00:57:16,000 --> 00:57:20,880
Speaker 5: think an interesting test case happening right now for the

1022
00:57:20,920 --> 00:57:25,200
Speaker 5: piece through strength doctrine at its best. So if Trump

1023
00:57:26,560 --> 00:57:31,480
Speaker 5: de escalates by having aircraft carriers in the Arabian Sea

1024
00:57:31,680 --> 00:57:36,040
Speaker 5: and threatening her on but not actually going much further,

1025
00:57:36,200 --> 00:57:38,520
Speaker 5: like doing what they want him to do, and they

1026
00:57:38,640 --> 00:57:43,960
Speaker 5: being the neo conservative bulwark that remains in power through

1027
00:57:44,040 --> 00:57:47,720
Speaker 5: Lindsay Graham and many many others here in Washington, though

1028
00:57:47,840 --> 00:57:51,080
Speaker 5: not many others around the country, average voters, not a

1029
00:57:51,120 --> 00:57:55,360
Speaker 5: huge constituency, of course, but by not giving into their

1030
00:57:55,400 --> 00:58:00,640
Speaker 5: demands for like full scale war and using the big stick,

1031
00:58:01,440 --> 00:58:05,760
Speaker 5: it's possible that fewer people die and you spare your

1032
00:58:05,800 --> 00:58:07,280
Speaker 5: spared a broader conflict.

1033
00:58:07,360 --> 00:58:11,120
Speaker 6: But uh, just yeah, at this point, I would take

1034
00:58:11,160 --> 00:58:14,800
Speaker 6: that because my expectations of Trump are so low. But

1035
00:58:15,320 --> 00:58:20,040
Speaker 6: I'm really tired of him taking credit, uh for not

1036
00:58:20,960 --> 00:58:22,520
Speaker 6: doing bigger wars.

1037
00:58:22,760 --> 00:58:24,919
Speaker 3: That he didn't have to do at all.

1038
00:58:25,040 --> 00:58:27,160
Speaker 6: He's like, look at Venezuela, like we went in and

1039
00:58:27,240 --> 00:58:30,720
Speaker 6: we went out and could have done a long term

1040
00:58:30,760 --> 00:58:33,800
Speaker 6: occupation and invasion. Well you could have also just left

1041
00:58:33,800 --> 00:58:34,280
Speaker 6: them alone.

1042
00:58:34,720 --> 00:58:35,840
Speaker 3: Nobody will like.

1043
00:58:35,880 --> 00:58:38,200
Speaker 5: We still don't know that it's not going to It's

1044
00:58:38,240 --> 00:58:39,080
Speaker 5: the same thing with Iran.

1045
00:58:39,160 --> 00:58:40,760
Speaker 4: I mean there's so many people who were taking victory

1046
00:58:40,800 --> 00:58:42,880
Speaker 4: laps after June, like, oh, you guys were wrong.

1047
00:58:42,960 --> 00:58:44,080
Speaker 3: Yeah, we only did twelve days.

1048
00:58:44,320 --> 00:58:46,400
Speaker 4: I'm happy to take an L, happy to take an L.

1049
00:58:46,520 --> 00:58:48,840
Speaker 3: But it's February and here we are back again. Yes,

1050
00:58:48,960 --> 00:58:51,280
Speaker 3: why like again? Why like? What like?

1051
00:58:51,760 --> 00:58:52,320
Speaker 4: And here we.

1052
00:58:52,280 --> 00:58:54,640
Speaker 5: Are with Delsi Rodriguez and Judge of Venezuela like what

1053
00:58:54,720 --> 00:58:56,439
Speaker 5: was your what were you actually doing?

1054
00:58:56,760 --> 00:58:57,800
Speaker 3: Yeah? Good question.

1055
00:58:58,320 --> 00:59:01,760
Speaker 6: So, uh, nuclear talks are kicking up, so we can

1056
00:59:01,800 --> 00:59:07,600
Speaker 6: put up C three. So talks are scheduled now in Oman.

1057
00:59:08,080 --> 00:59:12,959
Speaker 6: They will not be their call news meetings calling them

1058
00:59:13,120 --> 00:59:17,200
Speaker 6: between the US and Iran, but Iran Iranian officials are saying, uh,

1059
00:59:17,240 --> 00:59:20,280
Speaker 6: they're there are indirect talks in a sense that the

1060
00:59:20,400 --> 00:59:22,040
Speaker 6: US is still refusing to kind of be in the

1061
00:59:22,040 --> 00:59:25,080
Speaker 6: same room. Cutters going to be there and they're going

1062
00:59:25,120 --> 00:59:29,160
Speaker 6: back and forth. There's some reporting out of Iran that

1063
00:59:29,200 --> 00:59:32,160
Speaker 6: they've gotten hints that that Kushner might end up becoming

1064
00:59:32,200 --> 00:59:34,800
Speaker 6: involved because we can put up C two. This is

1065
00:59:34,800 --> 00:59:37,520
Speaker 6: from on Launch Media, which is very well sourced among

1066
00:59:37,600 --> 00:59:40,920
Speaker 6: Iranian insiders. They were saying that one of the problems

1067
00:59:41,440 --> 00:59:43,840
Speaker 6: with the last round of negotiations, besides the fact that

1068
00:59:43,840 --> 00:59:49,400
Speaker 6: Trump killed all the negotiators, is that wit Cough consistently

1069
00:59:49,440 --> 00:59:53,600
Speaker 6: had to fly back to the United States to get answers,

1070
00:59:54,040 --> 00:59:56,720
Speaker 6: which you can imagine how frustrating that is. You're you're

1071
00:59:56,720 --> 00:59:58,320
Speaker 6: in the you're in an office, you're trying to buy

1072
00:59:58,360 --> 01:00:01,160
Speaker 6: a used car. Salesman like, I got to go talk

1073
01:00:01,200 --> 01:00:03,440
Speaker 6: to my manager, see if I can give you, you know,

1074
01:00:03,520 --> 01:00:06,440
Speaker 6: a discount on this true cote and he comes back

1075
01:00:06,480 --> 01:00:08,280
Speaker 6: ten minutes later, he's like, great news.

1076
01:00:08,480 --> 01:00:09,760
Speaker 3: You know, as long as you do the ten.

1077
01:00:09,720 --> 01:00:12,440
Speaker 6: Year warranty, we can do this true code at this

1078
01:00:12,560 --> 01:00:16,800
Speaker 6: at a discount. Imagine he had to fly back halfway

1079
01:00:16,840 --> 01:00:19,800
Speaker 6: around the world every time, and then the Iranians are

1080
01:00:19,800 --> 01:00:22,000
Speaker 6: sitting there twitting their thumbs and then they get bombed.

1081
01:00:22,360 --> 01:00:26,520
Speaker 3: So you can imagine that those are not ideal negotiating circumstances.

1082
01:00:26,520 --> 01:00:26,960
Speaker 3: So they're trying.

1083
01:00:26,960 --> 01:00:29,080
Speaker 6: They're saying, like, can you get some more people who

1084
01:00:29,120 --> 01:00:32,800
Speaker 6: are empowered to actually make deals? To me, the whole

1085
01:00:32,840 --> 01:00:39,280
Speaker 6: thing is absurd, Like, it seems pretty clear Trump is

1086
01:00:39,280 --> 01:00:43,320
Speaker 6: not serious about negotiations and it's just stalling because they

1087
01:00:43,480 --> 01:00:49,280
Speaker 6: launched most of their anti missile defenses during the Twelve

1088
01:00:49,320 --> 01:00:52,200
Speaker 6: Day War, and so they need to restock so that

1089
01:00:52,240 --> 01:00:55,800
Speaker 6: they can defend Israel from whatever counter attack comes. They

1090
01:00:55,800 --> 01:00:58,640
Speaker 6: can defend their other assets around the region, and they

1091
01:00:58,640 --> 01:01:02,040
Speaker 6: need to get all of their naval and air assets

1092
01:01:02,400 --> 01:01:04,240
Speaker 6: close enough to Iron so they can launch an attack.

1093
01:01:04,920 --> 01:01:06,480
Speaker 3: That seems to be what they're doing.

1094
01:01:08,640 --> 01:01:11,760
Speaker 6: In the past every time that they have invited the

1095
01:01:11,760 --> 01:01:15,280
Speaker 6: Iranians to negotiate, including Solomony, who I'll keep reminding people COSTM.

1096
01:01:15,280 --> 01:01:21,000
Speaker 6: Solomoney was in Bagdad when he was assassinated because he

1097
01:01:21,200 --> 01:01:25,600
Speaker 6: was lord there for negotiations towards peace, Like like, it's

1098
01:01:25,640 --> 01:01:28,840
Speaker 6: what it's Trump's move. He thinks it's clever, he thinks

1099
01:01:28,880 --> 01:01:31,800
Speaker 6: nobody sees it coming, and he's correct at first because

1100
01:01:32,800 --> 01:01:35,440
Speaker 6: that's like a maniacal thing to do. Yeah, because for

1101
01:01:35,480 --> 01:01:37,520
Speaker 6: thousands of years, like the one thing that even like

1102
01:01:37,560 --> 01:01:40,160
Speaker 6: Eengis Khan or whatever would like recognize and be like

1103
01:01:41,280 --> 01:01:44,760
Speaker 6: people go out and talk like it's just not pragmatic

1104
01:01:44,800 --> 01:01:47,520
Speaker 6: to kill that person. We'll talk to them and then

1105
01:01:47,560 --> 01:01:48,720
Speaker 6: you can go back and kill each other.

1106
01:01:48,800 --> 01:01:49,040
Speaker 7: Later.

1107
01:01:49,600 --> 01:01:51,560
Speaker 6: Trump was like, oh, but what if we killed them

1108
01:01:51,560 --> 01:01:53,760
Speaker 6: at the negotiating table when they're not looking?

1109
01:01:54,680 --> 01:01:55,560
Speaker 3: Have you thought of that?

1110
01:01:59,160 --> 01:02:02,400
Speaker 6: So you know, there's only so many red weddings until

1111
01:02:02,440 --> 01:02:07,680
Speaker 6: people show up at the wedding and like, so that's

1112
01:02:07,720 --> 01:02:11,960
Speaker 6: why I suspect that the Iranians are assuming that an

1113
01:02:12,000 --> 01:02:12,800
Speaker 6: attack is coming.

1114
01:02:13,000 --> 01:02:14,920
Speaker 3: You got you still got to take the invitation.

1115
01:02:15,680 --> 01:02:19,400
Speaker 6: You can imagine being tapped for these negotiations if you're

1116
01:02:19,520 --> 01:02:26,400
Speaker 6: an Iranian diplomat. I like, uh, really, this weekend helping

1117
01:02:26,400 --> 01:02:27,280
Speaker 6: my friend move.

1118
01:02:28,600 --> 01:02:30,920
Speaker 3: Like this is a chance of a lifetime. Would really

1119
01:02:31,000 --> 01:02:31,560
Speaker 3: love to do this.

1120
01:02:31,680 --> 01:02:34,280
Speaker 6: But if they can move it to am On, Oh

1121
01:02:34,320 --> 01:02:37,720
Speaker 6: they moved it to them on, God, then can't do

1122
01:02:37,760 --> 01:02:38,040
Speaker 6: them on.

1123
01:02:38,160 --> 01:02:41,280
Speaker 3: Actually turns out, yeah, I'm gonna worn out and am On.

1124
01:02:42,040 --> 01:02:43,600
Speaker 6: Things got a little out of control a couple of

1125
01:02:43,640 --> 01:02:45,440
Speaker 6: years ago when I was there I would really love

1126
01:02:45,600 --> 01:02:51,320
Speaker 6: to can't go to Aman. So yeah, and there's there's

1127
01:02:51,360 --> 01:02:53,880
Speaker 6: also reporting in that article that you can go go

1128
01:02:53,920 --> 01:02:57,000
Speaker 6: read that which backs up reporting that Jeremy Scalho had

1129
01:02:57,000 --> 01:03:00,480
Speaker 6: done earlier drop Site, which is that Iran had felt

1130
01:03:01,880 --> 01:03:05,280
Speaker 6: that the best way to de escalate these Trump attacks

1131
01:03:05,920 --> 01:03:08,920
Speaker 6: was to forecast exactly what they were going to do,

1132
01:03:10,040 --> 01:03:14,000
Speaker 6: tell Trump ahead of time so that there's minimal amount

1133
01:03:14,040 --> 01:03:18,800
Speaker 6: of damage and no actual damage to people, to American troops,

1134
01:03:19,600 --> 01:03:23,280
Speaker 6: and to announce ahead of time. We consider after we respond,

1135
01:03:23,400 --> 01:03:26,360
Speaker 6: we consider this finished. And so that's what they did

1136
01:03:26,440 --> 01:03:29,560
Speaker 6: multiple times, and there were people arguing at the time

1137
01:03:29,560 --> 01:03:34,080
Speaker 6: inside Iran, this is only going to convey weakness and

1138
01:03:34,160 --> 01:03:35,200
Speaker 6: invite more attacks.

1139
01:03:36,000 --> 01:03:37,360
Speaker 3: That you have to hit Trump harder.

1140
01:03:39,120 --> 01:03:44,400
Speaker 6: And the people who advocated for the restrained response, a

1141
01:03:44,440 --> 01:03:47,720
Speaker 6: lot of them were killed, and now they're being replaced

1142
01:03:47,760 --> 01:03:51,320
Speaker 6: by the people who had said, you're going to get

1143
01:03:51,320 --> 01:03:57,240
Speaker 6: yourself killed with this restraint. What Trump doesn't want is

1144
01:03:57,280 --> 01:04:00,320
Speaker 6: a forever war that he can't control. He's been very

1145
01:04:00,320 --> 01:04:03,280
Speaker 6: clear he hates those. So what we need to do

1146
01:04:03,840 --> 01:04:06,800
Speaker 6: is show him that we can pull one of those off.

1147
01:04:07,040 --> 01:04:10,280
Speaker 6: So we need to hit American assets in Iraq American

1148
01:04:10,320 --> 01:04:13,800
Speaker 6: assets in Syria, American assets in Doha, and you need

1149
01:04:13,840 --> 01:04:16,280
Speaker 6: to hit Israel as much as we can.

1150
01:04:17,000 --> 01:04:20,120
Speaker 3: And they've even talked about killing.

1151
01:04:19,840 --> 01:04:24,000
Speaker 6: As many as five hundred American troops to send a

1152
01:04:24,040 --> 01:04:30,280
Speaker 6: signal that they're going to be consequences to you continuing

1153
01:04:30,280 --> 01:04:33,280
Speaker 6: to attack us every six months. They feel like that's

1154
01:04:34,320 --> 01:04:36,560
Speaker 6: this faction feels like that's the only way to get

1155
01:04:36,560 --> 01:04:39,440
Speaker 6: this to stop, that that's the only language Trump understands.

1156
01:04:40,000 --> 01:04:42,480
Speaker 6: And the people in the room to argue against it

1157
01:04:42,520 --> 01:04:47,440
Speaker 6: were killed by Trump. So maybe they're all bluffing and

1158
01:04:48,600 --> 01:04:54,040
Speaker 6: or maybe the US can just annihilate their response capacity.

1159
01:04:54,160 --> 01:04:57,200
Speaker 6: Who knows, and hopefully we won't find out. But that's

1160
01:04:57,240 --> 01:04:59,680
Speaker 6: the current state of play.

1161
01:05:00,560 --> 01:05:03,880
Speaker 5: Well that's I mean, just the drone strike yesterday is

1162
01:05:03,920 --> 01:05:09,280
Speaker 5: again a reminder of how quickly this can completely change completely.

1163
01:05:09,320 --> 01:05:12,160
Speaker 5: You can wake up one day and an American could

1164
01:05:12,160 --> 01:05:14,600
Speaker 5: have been killed on an aircraft carrier, and we could

1165
01:05:14,640 --> 01:05:16,880
Speaker 5: be sending more and more troops, We could be sending

1166
01:05:16,880 --> 01:05:19,120
Speaker 5: boots on the damn ground in a heartbeat.

1167
01:05:19,200 --> 01:05:20,800
Speaker 4: Because of how fragile this is.