WEBVTT - Cleopatra: Ms. Understood 0:00:00.840 --> 0:00:05.000 Attention world. If you can make it to America, then 0:00:05.120 --> 0:00:07.720 come see us. We are going out on the road 0:00:07.760 --> 0:00:10.319 for s Y s K Live again, and we are 0:00:10.360 --> 0:00:14.200 going to start the whole thing off in Chicago on July, 0:00:15.280 --> 0:00:17.080 that's right. And if you can't make it to America, 0:00:17.400 --> 0:00:19.479 maybe make it to Canada because we're gonna be in 0:00:19.520 --> 0:00:22.560 Toronto in the next night and Fourth Music Hall. Then 0:00:22.560 --> 0:00:24.319 in August we're gonna do a couple of dates at 0:00:24.320 --> 0:00:28.480 the Wilburn Boston October twenty nine, in Portland Mainz Lovely 0:00:28.520 --> 0:00:31.400 State Theater on August, and then we're going to be 0:00:31.480 --> 0:00:34.240 heading down to Florida. We're gonna be at Plausa Live 0:00:34.760 --> 0:00:37.320 on October nine, and then the next night we're going 0:00:37.360 --> 0:00:40.360 to be in New Orleans at the Civic Theater. That's right, 0:00:40.400 --> 0:00:42.479 and then we're gonna round it out in Brooklyn October 0:00:44.080 --> 0:00:46.400 at the Bellhouse. Yep. So come see us. You can 0:00:46.400 --> 0:00:49.520 get tickets and info at s Y s K live 0:00:49.640 --> 0:00:53.800 dot com. Welcome to Stuff You Should Know, a production 0:00:53.840 --> 0:01:02.400 of Ive Heart Radios How Stuff Works. Hey, and welcome 0:01:02.400 --> 0:01:05.959 to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark, There's Charles W. Chuck Bryant, 0:01:06.040 --> 0:01:10.600 There's Jerry Jerome rolland over there sitting on Frank the 0:01:10.720 --> 0:01:14.000 chair was not very happy about that. But still, this 0:01:14.120 --> 0:01:16.520 is stuff you should know. I thought Jerry's entrance today 0:01:16.600 --> 0:01:22.280 was unique. Oh yeah, yeah, man. When they when Matt 0:01:22.360 --> 0:01:24.440 and Tyler brought her end rolled up in a carpet 0:01:25.360 --> 0:01:29.319 to out on the studio floor and she said fire me. 0:01:32.840 --> 0:01:34.679 We said, Jerry, we don't have that kind of power. 0:01:35.160 --> 0:01:37.440 But she just it was amazing. It was almost like 0:01:37.560 --> 0:01:39.960 playing the whole thing reverse. She rolled herself back up 0:01:39.959 --> 0:01:42.720 in the carpet in one swift motion. That's right. And 0:01:42.760 --> 0:01:46.560 if you are a Cleo pat write, then uh you 0:01:46.760 --> 0:01:49.200 got a little chuckle out of that joke. If not, 0:01:49.320 --> 0:01:53.000 you're probably thinking that we're on drugs or something. Yeah, 0:01:53.120 --> 0:01:56.120 I guess you could probably think both, but um, neither 0:01:56.240 --> 0:01:59.080 is true. What is true is that you're about to 0:01:59.080 --> 0:02:04.600 be confused for the minutes. That's a great set up, man, 0:02:04.640 --> 0:02:09.320 We're gonna confuse everybody. Yeah boy, this is good dentse uh. 0:02:09.360 --> 0:02:11.320 And there are a lot, a lot, a lot of 0:02:11.400 --> 0:02:16.040 names with the numbers that follow in uh, not triumbrates 0:02:16.080 --> 0:02:19.560 and not even regular numbers, numbers that are actually letters 0:02:20.200 --> 0:02:25.359 Roman style. So here we go. This is gonna be good, Chuck. Oh. 0:02:25.400 --> 0:02:28.960 By the way, if you uh live in Chicago or Toronto, 0:02:29.120 --> 0:02:32.640 or Boston or Portland, Maine, or Orlando, Florida, or New 0:02:32.760 --> 0:02:35.160 Orleans or Brooklyn, New York, you should go to s 0:02:35.280 --> 0:02:38.600 Y s K live dot com yea and check out 0:02:38.600 --> 0:02:41.400 our tour dates. We're going to those cities, and you 0:02:41.440 --> 0:02:43.560 can buy tickets at s Y s K live dot 0:02:43.560 --> 0:02:46.519 com and get information about things like is it a 0:02:46.760 --> 0:02:49.000 twenty one and up show? I don't think any of 0:02:49.000 --> 0:02:52.720 them are. What time or doors? Probably seven, but you 0:02:52.840 --> 0:02:55.040 better check that kind of stuff. You can go find 0:02:55.160 --> 0:02:59.080 that info by visiting ss K live and then following 0:02:59.120 --> 0:03:02.360 the hyperlinks out to other websites on the internet. That's right. 0:03:02.400 --> 0:03:04.320 If you've never seen us live, come on out. It's 0:03:04.320 --> 0:03:07.160 a lot of fun. And if you have, just come 0:03:07.200 --> 0:03:09.760 on back and get a second helping of us, yep 0:03:10.240 --> 0:03:14.800 uh second heapen helping of our hospitality. Now onto Cleopatra. 0:03:16.160 --> 0:03:19.000 Good call, by the way, good call for for saying 0:03:19.000 --> 0:03:23.960 all that. Great So Cleopatra, She's one of those historical 0:03:24.000 --> 0:03:26.880 figures that everybody knows about. But if you stop and 0:03:26.919 --> 0:03:29.280 ask yourself what do you know about her? And realize 0:03:29.320 --> 0:03:32.720 you know next to nothing about her. You know, she 0:03:32.919 --> 0:03:38.720 was amazingly beautiful. She um looked like Liz Taylor. Um 0:03:38.800 --> 0:03:44.200 she uh, she loved Julius Caesar and maybe Mark Anthony too. 0:03:44.520 --> 0:03:47.200 And wait a minute, how did she love both? Were? 0:03:47.400 --> 0:03:49.920 What's going on here? You just realize you get confused 0:03:49.960 --> 0:03:53.400 pretty quickly. Was she a feminist icon? Was she actually 0:03:53.440 --> 0:03:57.920 just kind of a uh, a wily woman who used 0:03:57.960 --> 0:04:01.640 sexuality to get what she wants? Who knows? The problem 0:04:01.720 --> 0:04:05.760 is this, She's one of those historical figures that we 0:04:05.840 --> 0:04:09.880 know very little about because historians know very little about her. Like, 0:04:09.960 --> 0:04:13.600 she was not extensively document as famous as she is, 0:04:13.960 --> 0:04:18.919 she was not extensively documented by her own people, the Egyptians. Yeah, 0:04:18.960 --> 0:04:21.760 which is a little strange, because she was beloved by 0:04:21.760 --> 0:04:24.120 the Egyptians from what we can tell, yea, from what 0:04:24.160 --> 0:04:26.359 we can tell. But most of the information we have 0:04:26.520 --> 0:04:34.320 is very Greco Roman, especially this Plutarch chump, well Plutarch 0:04:34.400 --> 0:04:39.200 actually he was the first to to show any sympathy whatsoever. 0:04:40.080 --> 0:04:42.320 The guys who came a little before him, they were 0:04:42.720 --> 0:04:46.479 they were just all out meanings. Because the Romans did 0:04:46.520 --> 0:04:52.320 not like um Cleopatra in general. They found her um 0:04:52.360 --> 0:04:55.919 at the very least problematic, and that she kept luring 0:04:55.960 --> 0:05:00.040 away some of their favorite sons. And then usually of 0:05:00.080 --> 0:05:05.279 the detriment of Rome or symbolically, the idea if she 0:05:05.480 --> 0:05:08.000 was a great ruler, as as she seems to have 0:05:08.080 --> 0:05:12.520 been at least above average, if not like one of 0:05:12.560 --> 0:05:15.919 the better, better rules around. If there was this woman 0:05:16.000 --> 0:05:18.719 who was you know, kind of in the public eye 0:05:18.760 --> 0:05:22.440 and basically in ancient, old timing Roman news all the time, 0:05:22.800 --> 0:05:25.280 and she was a female who was really good at 0:05:25.360 --> 0:05:29.240 ruling that was a threat to Rome's established patriarchy, that 0:05:29.320 --> 0:05:31.760 wasn't supposed to be able to happen. And so Rome 0:05:31.880 --> 0:05:34.719 came up with all of these popular ideas for why 0:05:34.920 --> 0:05:36.839 she was able to do that, and usually it came 0:05:36.839 --> 0:05:40.960 down to sex and or magic um, and that that 0:05:41.040 --> 0:05:44.479 was how Cleopatra got through. And so over the last 0:05:44.520 --> 0:05:48.919 couple of thousand years, UM, it's kind of our idea 0:05:49.040 --> 0:05:52.480 or image of Cleopatra's kind of come up from this 0:05:52.480 --> 0:05:57.560 this brew Uh seen through Roman eyes, and it's only 0:05:57.720 --> 0:06:00.120 very recent that people have really kind of started to 0:06:00.160 --> 0:06:04.400 dig in and try to examine her academically and with 0:06:04.440 --> 0:06:10.480 what you know, small, meager firsthand sources and accounts exist. Yeah, 0:06:10.520 --> 0:06:15.119 I mean she ruled ancient Egypt. She was the last pharaoh. Um. 0:06:15.200 --> 0:06:19.120 She was the first woman sovereign who rule all by 0:06:19.120 --> 0:06:23.160 herself for more than a decade, which was quite an accomplishment. 0:06:24.279 --> 0:06:27.719 And um, how she got there is a very long 0:06:27.760 --> 0:06:31.719 and sort of convoluted story. Yeah. When you think of Egypt, Chuck, 0:06:31.920 --> 0:06:35.039 we think of like pharaohs and Isis and Osiris and 0:06:35.080 --> 0:06:39.880 all of that. Um, and when you think of Cleopatra too. 0:06:39.960 --> 0:06:42.440 But Cleopatra was different. She was different from all the 0:06:42.440 --> 0:06:45.520 pharaohs that came before. She was um different from most 0:06:45.520 --> 0:06:47.960 of the pharaos that came before, and that she came 0:06:48.000 --> 0:06:51.040 from a family line that had been established only about 0:06:51.080 --> 0:06:55.320 three and fifty years before when Alexander the Great, General 0:06:55.360 --> 0:06:59.920 Ptolemy UM said Alexander died, we're dividing up as king. 0:07:00.279 --> 0:07:03.919 I'm taking Egypt. And he said, hey, Egyptians, you know 0:07:03.920 --> 0:07:06.679 how you had this line of pharaohs that ruled the country. 0:07:06.800 --> 0:07:08.839 Well you got a new one. And it's me and 0:07:08.920 --> 0:07:13.200 my descendants. And I'm not Egyptian, I'm actually Macedonian. But 0:07:13.320 --> 0:07:16.760 I'm in charge here and I'm naming myself um Ptolemy 0:07:16.840 --> 0:07:20.760 the first uh, suitor. I believe it's s u t 0:07:20.920 --> 0:07:24.720 o r, which means savior of Egypt. And he established 0:07:24.720 --> 0:07:29.120 the Ptolemaic line, and from that point on um all 0:07:29.160 --> 0:07:33.240 of the people who ruled as pharaohs over Egypt came 0:07:33.280 --> 0:07:37.560 from Ptolemy UM and his his um children. Yeah, I 0:07:37.560 --> 0:07:39.760 mean that was a few hundred years worth a pretty 0:07:39.760 --> 0:07:42.040 good run there. It was a pretty good run. But 0:07:42.080 --> 0:07:43.520 you don't think of that like, you know, you think 0:07:43.560 --> 0:07:47.000 of Cleopatra as a pharaoh like any other pharaoh. She wasn't. 0:07:47.040 --> 0:07:50.520 She was different. She was probably of Macedonian descent because 0:07:50.520 --> 0:07:53.280 she was descended from Ptolemy. But they also are not 0:07:53.360 --> 0:07:58.080 sure was she Egyptian to like ethnic Egyptian Um. Some 0:07:58.120 --> 0:08:02.160 people believe that she was subsa Air and African descent. Um. 0:08:02.200 --> 0:08:04.800 It's just totally up in the air of exactly what 0:08:04.840 --> 0:08:09.000 her ethnicity was. But she was definitely not descended from 0:08:09.040 --> 0:08:13.280 the pharaohs before. But in establishing this line, Ptolemy said, well, 0:08:13.320 --> 0:08:15.520 I get that you guys are really big into the 0:08:15.560 --> 0:08:19.480 idea that that kings or pharaohs and queens are divine. 0:08:19.880 --> 0:08:22.200 So we're gonna say that that applies to my line too. 0:08:22.440 --> 0:08:25.280 And what's this incest you guys are into. We'll give 0:08:25.280 --> 0:08:28.840 that a try to. And the Ptolemaic line carried on 0:08:28.880 --> 0:08:34.720 those customs as well. Yeah, so the Ptolemy's, Ptolemy's, Ptolemy's 0:08:35.520 --> 0:08:38.640 whatever you want to say, man Um, they were Greek 0:08:38.679 --> 0:08:42.880 speakers and observed Greek customs, um, which if you're living 0:08:42.880 --> 0:08:45.520 in Egypt, seems like a bit of a contradiction because 0:08:46.000 --> 0:08:49.440 people in Egypt weren't Greek, and that kind of caused 0:08:49.440 --> 0:08:55.600 a separation. Um, Cleopatrick was was Cleopatrick. What I said 0:08:56.240 --> 0:08:59.800 Cleopatra was sounds like Cleopatrick sounds like a new comedy 0:08:59.800 --> 0:09:04.679 come this fall, and it totally does. Oh boy, Um 0:09:04.720 --> 0:09:08.600 who rules like her local you know, uh Brooklyn apartment 0:09:08.640 --> 0:09:12.600 building or something, and she comes in. How they introduced 0:09:12.600 --> 0:09:14.080 her as a character as she comes and rolled up 0:09:14.120 --> 0:09:17.440 in the carpet in the pilot that she made herself. Man, 0:09:17.520 --> 0:09:22.319 this thing writes itself. So Cleopatra distinguished herself by coming 0:09:22.360 --> 0:09:24.199 in And we'll get to all this in more detail. 0:09:24.240 --> 0:09:26.560 But she was popular in Egypt because she came in 0:09:26.600 --> 0:09:28.880 and she was like, Hey, what do you need Egypt. 0:09:28.920 --> 0:09:32.520 I'm gonna speak your languages. I'm gonna I'm gonna be 0:09:32.640 --> 0:09:35.880 patriotic for Egypt, and I'm gonna speak a lot of 0:09:35.920 --> 0:09:38.600 languages because I'm super smart, and I don't. In fact, 0:09:38.640 --> 0:09:40.959 I speak so many languages when I go to meet 0:09:41.000 --> 0:09:45.360 with other leaders of other countries and kingdoms, I'm not 0:09:45.400 --> 0:09:48.160 even gonna need my translators and I'm not even gonna 0:09:48.160 --> 0:09:50.880 need my advisors around. I can make my own decisions 0:09:51.000 --> 0:09:53.400 because I'm speaking directly to them in their native tongue. 0:09:54.240 --> 0:09:57.880 Egyptians love that. But her officials in her tram while 0:09:57.920 --> 0:10:00.360 against her translators didn't really have a say. But her 0:10:00.400 --> 0:10:04.280 officials were like, uh, this is upsetting. Well, yeah, because 0:10:04.320 --> 0:10:07.280 it diminished their power. They said, well, you don't you know, 0:10:07.360 --> 0:10:10.040 you're not consulting with us before you start speaking to 0:10:10.080 --> 0:10:14.120 these other foreign powers, these other leaders. And She's like, well, 0:10:14.120 --> 0:10:16.000 I don't need to. I speak their language. I can 0:10:16.040 --> 0:10:18.560 ask them and decide for myself whether they're telling the 0:10:18.600 --> 0:10:20.960 truth or what they actually need or what they what 0:10:21.040 --> 0:10:24.840 they should get. Um. So yeah, just the ascension of 0:10:24.880 --> 0:10:29.080 Cleopatra was different two ways. It diminished the power of 0:10:29.120 --> 0:10:32.120 the officials that had been established by the time her 0:10:32.160 --> 0:10:35.240 father died and left the place to her, and she 0:10:35.400 --> 0:10:39.439 was known as basically a very patriotic pharaoh, and that 0:10:39.520 --> 0:10:43.439 she spoke Egyptian and followed Egyptian customs way more than 0:10:43.480 --> 0:10:46.840 any of the Ptolemy's before her had. So that was 0:10:47.080 --> 0:10:49.080 she was different in that respect a big time right 0:10:49.120 --> 0:10:52.640 out of the gate. Yeah. So she assumed the throne 0:10:53.320 --> 0:10:55.520 as a I guess even for the time a young 0:10:55.559 --> 0:10:59.120 woman of eighteen years old, along with her her braddy, 0:10:59.160 --> 0:11:03.040 little ten year old brother. They're told that guy, uh, 0:11:03.080 --> 0:11:05.400 there was a tradition there that basically said, if you're 0:11:05.440 --> 0:11:09.200 a woman, you need a male consort to rule UM. 0:11:09.320 --> 0:11:12.800 So by the way, marry him, say what? And by 0:11:12.840 --> 0:11:15.000 the way to marry him? Yeah, like technically you have 0:11:15.080 --> 0:11:19.760 to get ceremonially ceremonially married. But you know, that's kind 0:11:19.760 --> 0:11:21.360 of where it ends, unless you don't want it to 0:11:21.480 --> 0:11:24.839 end there, because we're pretty liberal on that front. Sure. 0:11:26.080 --> 0:11:30.120 But the kingdom of Egypt that she inherited was um 0:11:30.160 --> 0:11:33.400 not a healthy one. Um. It had floods and famine, 0:11:33.480 --> 0:11:36.200 it had a bad economy, and it was really up 0:11:36.240 --> 0:11:41.760 to her to forge alliances, um with other places and 0:11:41.800 --> 0:11:45.520 other men in power to to make Egypt what she 0:11:45.559 --> 0:11:49.240 thought it could be. Starting with Julius Caesar. Yeah. So 0:11:49.400 --> 0:11:53.640 at the time, so her father had kind of mortgaged 0:11:53.800 --> 0:11:57.880 Egypt over to Rome to help bail the economy out 0:11:57.920 --> 0:12:01.439 because things are it was hard times even before Cleopatra 0:12:01.600 --> 0:12:04.320 rose of power, and that's what she inherited. Um. So 0:12:04.840 --> 0:12:08.240 Rome already had a pretty big interest in Egypt. Egypt 0:12:08.320 --> 0:12:13.400 was a client state of Rome. Rather than Rome officially 0:12:13.559 --> 0:12:17.040 ruling Egypt and saying like we install the governor all 0:12:17.040 --> 0:12:19.640 that stuff, they said, you can exist and we're gonna 0:12:19.640 --> 0:12:22.040 trade with you. But basically, if we tell you to 0:12:22.080 --> 0:12:24.600 do something, you do it. And that was kind of 0:12:24.640 --> 0:12:27.240 the relationship between Rome and Egypt. So it makes sense 0:12:27.280 --> 0:12:30.320 that she would say, let me, let me get even 0:12:30.360 --> 0:12:35.080 more um cozy with Rome. But who's in power? That 0:12:35.200 --> 0:12:37.200 was a really big question at the time because when 0:12:37.240 --> 0:12:42.000 she rose to power as co ruler with her little brother, 0:12:42.360 --> 0:12:44.439 who by the way, she basically just wrote out of 0:12:44.520 --> 0:12:49.040 power immediately. Um. She That was not an easy question 0:12:49.040 --> 0:12:51.520 to answer because at the time Rome was racked by 0:12:51.559 --> 0:12:56.640 civil wars and specifically there was a triumvirate uh kind 0:12:56.679 --> 0:13:02.719 of a shaky power sharing agreement between Julius Caesar, um 0:13:02.920 --> 0:13:07.719 Pompey and crass as I believe right, that's right. Uh, 0:13:07.720 --> 0:13:10.679 And that is Pompey. He pronounced that. We can't say 0:13:10.679 --> 0:13:13.160 Pompey because I will get confusing. Yeah, it's pomp I 0:13:13.200 --> 0:13:16.719 always said Pompey. It sounds so cute, but he was 0:13:16.760 --> 0:13:19.360 a murderous general. Give me a little Pompey. Alright, let 0:13:19.400 --> 0:13:23.680 stick that knife in somebody. Um. And also, by the way, 0:13:23.760 --> 0:13:28.680 later on Octavian, when did he become Augustus. Oh, that's 0:13:28.720 --> 0:13:32.880 the big finish man. We'll get to that eventually, spoiler, 0:13:33.760 --> 0:13:37.360 because that got a little confusing to all these different names. Yes, 0:13:37.440 --> 0:13:40.240 but that you are correct. Octavian is Augustus or one 0:13:40.280 --> 0:13:46.560 and the same, right, so they both Joaquin Phoenix. The 0:13:46.679 --> 0:13:51.400 Roman Senate was on the side of Pompey. So Julius Caesar, 0:13:52.040 --> 0:13:54.839 um like you said that there was this this this 0:13:54.960 --> 0:13:57.680 sort of deal that they had going on was a 0:13:57.800 --> 0:14:03.200 really kind of um steady detante between civil wars, and 0:14:03.280 --> 0:14:05.960 the Roman Senate supported Pompey and said, Caesar, you gotta 0:14:05.960 --> 0:14:07.800 give up your army. Man. He said, I'm not doing it. 0:14:08.160 --> 0:14:11.240 In fact, not only that, but I'm coming to Italy, guys. 0:14:12.040 --> 0:14:16.360 He leads his his people into Italy across the Rubicon 0:14:16.920 --> 0:14:21.240 and declares war against Pompey and his forces, and he wins. 0:14:21.800 --> 0:14:25.720 He eventually won, quite quite surprisingly because Pompey again had 0:14:25.720 --> 0:14:30.240 the Senate UM backing, and so he had the senatorial forces, 0:14:30.320 --> 0:14:34.520 which vastly outnumbered Caesar's forces, but they were just superior forces, 0:14:34.880 --> 0:14:40.280 and Caesar eventually defeated Pompey well. Pompey UM, being closely 0:14:40.280 --> 0:14:45.400 aligned with Egypt, fled to Egypt, which is pretty understandable. Um, 0:14:45.920 --> 0:14:48.080 you can also understand why he would have fled to Egypt. 0:14:48.160 --> 0:14:54.960 He was the state designated guardian of Ptolemy the twelve Kids, 0:14:54.960 --> 0:14:58.400 which was Cleopatra and told me the thirteen among others, 0:14:58.440 --> 0:15:01.840 here we go. So he went, thought, Okay, this will 0:15:01.920 --> 0:15:03.960 be great. I'll just sit around and eat grapes for 0:15:04.000 --> 0:15:05.680 the rest of my days in Egypt. It's not a 0:15:05.720 --> 0:15:09.600 bad forced retirement. But when he got there he found 0:15:09.640 --> 0:15:15.640 that Cleopatra and her sister ar Sinewy had been had 0:15:15.680 --> 0:15:20.560 been forced into exile, and that Pompey was was in 0:15:20.920 --> 0:15:23.360 or not. I'm sorry tooleom me the thirteen like it's 0:15:23.400 --> 0:15:27.680 not confusing enough. Already Um was in power. This little 0:15:27.720 --> 0:15:31.880 boy king boy Pharaoh was in power, and and Ptolemy 0:15:32.120 --> 0:15:36.760 thought Caesar just won his his vanquished enemy just showed 0:15:36.800 --> 0:15:40.680 up in my doorstep. I'm gonna get killed for harboring 0:15:40.720 --> 0:15:44.160 this guy. So I'm gonna have Pompey killed. And he did. 0:15:44.280 --> 0:15:48.600 He had Pompey killed and decapitated in an effort to 0:15:48.680 --> 0:15:52.440 curry favor with Caesar. Didn't work, No, it did not work, 0:15:52.480 --> 0:15:55.360 because Caesar said, hey, hey, hey, I was gonna pardon 0:15:55.440 --> 0:15:59.080 that guy, you moron, and and like become beloved to 0:15:59.120 --> 0:16:01.680 the Roman citizen, and he just cut his head off. 0:16:01.960 --> 0:16:05.240 I'm coming for you. And so Caesar um crossed into 0:16:05.240 --> 0:16:10.840 Egypt to invade and basically depose Ptolemy. That's right. So 0:16:11.000 --> 0:16:13.880 he gets to Egypt. Now Caesar does, he declares martial 0:16:13.960 --> 0:16:17.040 law and basically moves into the royal palace ands like 0:16:17.080 --> 0:16:20.040 this is my place. Now, it's my place. And so 0:16:20.160 --> 0:16:23.120 Cleopatra at this point is like, all right, here's the deal. 0:16:23.560 --> 0:16:26.080 I need Caesar support here if I'm gonna get back 0:16:26.080 --> 0:16:29.320 on that throne um, So I need to curry favor 0:16:29.360 --> 0:16:32.880 with him. And this is the big carpet scene that 0:16:32.920 --> 0:16:37.400 we're talking about, and every sort of pop culture um 0:16:38.120 --> 0:16:42.200 retelling of Cleopatra's story, so which means this is probably true. 0:16:43.200 --> 0:16:47.520 Cleopatra gets back in there by sneaking in, uh skirting 0:16:47.560 --> 0:16:51.240 the enemy lines and the Roman barricades coming in and 0:16:51.440 --> 0:16:54.240 under the under the dead of night, rolled up in 0:16:54.240 --> 0:17:00.080 a carpet and is then presented to Caesar unrolled, and 0:17:00.120 --> 0:17:04.159 he's like, that was fantastic. He just stands up and 0:17:04.200 --> 0:17:07.520 colass roller back up there and do it again. I've 0:17:07.560 --> 0:17:10.600 never seen anything like it. She begs Caesar for aid, 0:17:10.800 --> 0:17:14.119 and it really did apparently win him over, and he 0:17:14.200 --> 0:17:16.720 was like, I like, I like the cut of her jib. Right, 0:17:17.040 --> 0:17:24.480 so they became uh friends with benefits pretty quickly out 0:17:24.480 --> 0:17:30.159 of the gate um. But but from from every account 0:17:30.400 --> 0:17:33.560 of this it was and again it was either carpet 0:17:33.680 --> 0:17:35.199 she was rolled up in a carpet or in like 0:17:35.240 --> 0:17:37.480 a um, some sort of bag like that you carry 0:17:37.520 --> 0:17:42.040 bed in like beg clothes in or whatever. Um. She 0:17:42.160 --> 0:17:45.719 got Caesar on her side like almost immediately, and so 0:17:45.800 --> 0:17:48.800 all of a sudden Cleopatra, who had been forced out 0:17:48.840 --> 0:17:54.920 of rule by Ptolomy, was now aligned with the guy 0:17:55.000 --> 0:17:57.720 who had just invaded Egypt and taken over and declared 0:17:57.760 --> 0:18:00.639 martial law, which was bad news for Tolom, and it 0:18:00.760 --> 0:18:03.480 was also bad news for ar Sinewy, who had who 0:18:03.520 --> 0:18:06.920 had left. She had come back with Cleopatra and then 0:18:07.080 --> 0:18:11.880 left to go have Ptolemy proclaimed her queen of Egypt Um. 0:18:11.920 --> 0:18:17.240 So she traded sides, and so Cleopatra said, hey, Julius, 0:18:17.280 --> 0:18:20.360 just a couple of quick favors. I want to get 0:18:20.440 --> 0:18:24.640 rid of Tlem also, who actually they found out later 0:18:24.680 --> 0:18:27.520 that he drowned fleeing. He drowned in the Nile. So 0:18:27.560 --> 0:18:30.119 told me the thirteenth is taken care of. The only 0:18:30.200 --> 0:18:32.840 person left out of all I think five or six 0:18:33.640 --> 0:18:38.360 kids in Cleopatra's family, there's one left, Ar Sineway, her 0:18:38.600 --> 0:18:41.480 younger sister. She's like, I can't have a running around. 0:18:41.560 --> 0:18:45.240 She's already shown that she's duplicitus get rid of her. 0:18:45.640 --> 0:18:48.399 So caesar Um to kind of show off that he 0:18:48.480 --> 0:18:52.119 has taken over Egypt. Parades are Sinewy through the town 0:18:52.640 --> 0:18:59.200 through exposed Alexandria in chains, showing that he's vanquished her Um, 0:18:59.640 --> 0:19:03.240 and he, to his surprise, found that this aroused the 0:19:03.280 --> 0:19:07.000 sympathy of the people living in the town, and so 0:19:07.040 --> 0:19:10.080 he ends up sparing our sinewise life, which will come 0:19:10.080 --> 0:19:13.280 back into play later and he he vanquishes her in 0:19:13.400 --> 0:19:17.080 exile to the Temple of Artemis at a Fesus, which 0:19:17.080 --> 0:19:19.520 we talked about in the Seven Wonders of the Ancient 0:19:19.560 --> 0:19:23.200 World episode. But So just put a pin in that, 0:19:23.480 --> 0:19:27.000 Chuck that our Sinewy is alive. She just lives in 0:19:27.000 --> 0:19:30.800 Turkey and exile now, and she is the only person 0:19:30.840 --> 0:19:35.199 who can challenge Cleopatra's claim to the Egyptian throne. All Right, 0:19:35.240 --> 0:19:38.119 let's take a break. Okay, let's get her ducks in 0:19:38.200 --> 0:19:41.359 a row. All right, we'll come back talk more about 0:19:41.359 --> 0:20:06.720 that carpet trick. Okay, So told me he's dead, little brothers, 0:20:06.760 --> 0:20:12.000 dead sisters, vanquished, Uh Caesar. At this point, Um needs 0:20:12.040 --> 0:20:15.680 to he needs money. He needs to fund his return 0:20:15.760 --> 0:20:19.960 to Rome. Uh and returned to power and Cleopatra's dad 0:20:20.359 --> 0:20:24.879 Uh incurred a lot of debts via Egypt, and he's like, hey, listen, 0:20:25.240 --> 0:20:27.760 I gotta like get this money back. And he said, 0:20:27.800 --> 0:20:33.440 you're pretty cool. That carpet trick was awesome, just Gangbusters, Gangbusters. 0:20:34.040 --> 0:20:37.160 So I need Uh. It's fine, you can rule Egypt. 0:20:37.200 --> 0:20:39.320 The two of us here, we're great. We have the 0:20:39.400 --> 0:20:41.800 same you know. I feel like we're on the same level, 0:20:41.840 --> 0:20:44.520 which was a very big deal to uh, for someone 0:20:44.560 --> 0:20:46.800 like Julius Caesar to say that about a female ruler. 0:20:47.640 --> 0:20:50.280 And he stayed there for a while, and they had 0:20:50.320 --> 0:20:54.119 a kid. His name was told me Caesar. Um he was, 0:20:54.320 --> 0:20:57.840 you know, later fully acknowledged from Caesar that he was 0:20:57.880 --> 0:20:59.480 his child. But it was kind of like the love 0:20:59.560 --> 0:21:02.240 child thing, right. He he said, yeah, that's my kid, 0:21:02.280 --> 0:21:05.200 and he's great, good, good looking kid. But he is 0:21:05.280 --> 0:21:09.120 not my official heir. No. But his name, like I said, 0:21:09.119 --> 0:21:12.359 I was told me Caesar. They called him Caesarion or 0:21:12.480 --> 0:21:17.200 little Caesar or Pizza Pizza. Right. I'm sure he saw 0:21:17.240 --> 0:21:19.600 that coming from a mile way. If you hadn't said it, 0:21:19.640 --> 0:21:22.560 I would have said him myself. So all of a sudden, 0:21:23.040 --> 0:21:27.560 Cleopatra is there. Um, she's really sort of solidified her 0:21:27.560 --> 0:21:30.720 position on every front, right, right, So she's got the 0:21:30.760 --> 0:21:34.280 backing of Julius Caesar, who has named himself dictator for life. 0:21:34.280 --> 0:21:36.159 By this time, she got a little brother out of 0:21:36.160 --> 0:21:37.960 the way and sister out of the way for now. 0:21:38.240 --> 0:21:41.159 And and this is this is it's really tough to 0:21:41.200 --> 0:21:44.879 overstate this. She has born an heir. She's the only 0:21:45.200 --> 0:21:47.320 the only she's the pharaoh, she's the ruler of Egypt, 0:21:47.400 --> 0:21:51.120 and she's now born an heir, a male heir who 0:21:51.240 --> 0:21:53.119 is not only a male hera going to be the 0:21:53.119 --> 0:21:58.040 next pharaoh, but he is the blood descendant of Julius 0:21:58.119 --> 0:22:02.680 Caesar himself. So Egypt is real happy with Cleopatra at 0:22:02.680 --> 0:22:05.720 this moment. Rome is not so happy. But it doesn't 0:22:05.720 --> 0:22:08.920 matter because Caesar's like the top dog in charge of everything, 0:22:09.119 --> 0:22:11.560 and things are going well for a little while. Um, 0:22:11.640 --> 0:22:15.680 so much so that Caesar or that um uh, Cleopatra 0:22:16.080 --> 0:22:19.520 and little Caesar go visit Big Caesar in Rome for 0:22:19.520 --> 0:22:22.240 a little while and set up household right across the 0:22:22.320 --> 0:22:25.320 river from Caesar's house. And at Caesar's house, if you 0:22:25.440 --> 0:22:28.199 had happened to to to go across the way and 0:22:28.640 --> 0:22:30.960 um peek in one of the windows, you'd find, Oh, 0:22:31.040 --> 0:22:34.040 Caesar has another family. He's got a wife and kids, 0:22:34.400 --> 0:22:37.600 and um, they're not super happy with him for having 0:22:37.960 --> 0:22:41.600 run around on them and had another kid with Cleopatra. 0:22:41.760 --> 0:22:44.280 But what are you gonna do. She's the ruler of Egypt, 0:22:44.320 --> 0:22:47.000 and by the way, she's spending the summer across the 0:22:47.080 --> 0:22:50.840 river from us. That's right, So as a ruler, things 0:22:50.840 --> 0:22:54.080 are going pretty great for Cleopatra. Um. Like I mentioned earlier, 0:22:54.119 --> 0:22:59.119 they really liked her. She was she related to the people, 0:22:59.200 --> 0:23:02.040 They related to her her. Um, like you said, she 0:23:02.080 --> 0:23:05.520 lived the Egyptian lifestyle. She whenever she had portraits drawn 0:23:05.560 --> 0:23:09.080 of herself, she was like, do the Egyptian thing, because 0:23:09.080 --> 0:23:12.280 it's great and the people will love it. Um. She 0:23:12.359 --> 0:23:15.240 was identified on a papyrus and thirty five b c. 0:23:16.040 --> 0:23:20.200 As she who loves her country. Yeah, Philip patter in Greek, 0:23:20.600 --> 0:23:23.439 she who loves her country. That's right. But she was 0:23:23.480 --> 0:23:27.840 a fully Egyptian pharaoh and a very patriotic and that 0:23:27.960 --> 0:23:32.439 just further like cemented her position as someone beloved by 0:23:32.480 --> 0:23:35.399 the Egyptians. And it's at this point that it's like 0:23:36.240 --> 0:23:38.000 it's pretty obvious that it's a real shame that you 0:23:38.000 --> 0:23:42.280 didn't get any writings from the Egyptians, you know. Yeah, yeah, 0:23:42.359 --> 0:23:48.800 that there was there were some busts I believe of 0:23:48.840 --> 0:23:52.680 her possibly um that may have been lost. There was 0:23:52.720 --> 0:23:54.520 a coin that turned up, but for the most part, 0:23:54.600 --> 0:23:57.240 like they didn't really document her rule, which again it's 0:23:57.320 --> 0:24:01.800 really really weird. Um. But there are some like like 0:24:01.840 --> 0:24:04.960 it was a massive bureaucracy that she operated. It was 0:24:04.960 --> 0:24:08.040 not just Egypt, but it was a huge chunk of 0:24:08.720 --> 0:24:18.160 northeast Africa and southwest Mediterranean UM that she ruled over. UM. 0:24:18.320 --> 0:24:20.880 And you know, being in league with Caesar definitely didn't 0:24:20.920 --> 0:24:24.720 hurt things, so empire kept expanding. She but on her own. 0:24:24.760 --> 0:24:26.879 This is the thing, Like, it's not lost on us, 0:24:26.880 --> 0:24:30.520 everybody who's listening that we're telling this story through the 0:24:30.560 --> 0:24:33.960 fact that Caesar is a huge part of her life 0:24:34.040 --> 0:24:37.040 or that room, whatever Rome's doing. UM. This is the 0:24:37.480 --> 0:24:40.960 documentary evidence we have. But there's also other evidence too, 0:24:41.560 --> 0:24:44.600