1 00:00:00,840 --> 00:00:05,000 Speaker 1: Attention world. If you can make it to America, then 2 00:00:05,120 --> 00:00:07,720 Speaker 1: come see us. We are going out on the road 3 00:00:07,760 --> 00:00:10,319 Speaker 1: for s Y s K Live again, and we are 4 00:00:10,360 --> 00:00:14,200 Speaker 1: going to start the whole thing off in Chicago on July, 5 00:00:15,280 --> 00:00:17,080 Speaker 1: that's right. And if you can't make it to America, 6 00:00:17,400 --> 00:00:19,479 Speaker 1: maybe make it to Canada because we're gonna be in 7 00:00:19,520 --> 00:00:22,560 Speaker 1: Toronto in the next night and Fourth Music Hall. Then 8 00:00:22,560 --> 00:00:24,319 Speaker 1: in August we're gonna do a couple of dates at 9 00:00:24,320 --> 00:00:28,480 Speaker 1: the Wilburn Boston October twenty nine, in Portland Mainz Lovely 10 00:00:28,520 --> 00:00:31,400 Speaker 1: State Theater on August, and then we're going to be 11 00:00:31,480 --> 00:00:34,240 Speaker 1: heading down to Florida. We're gonna be at Plausa Live 12 00:00:34,760 --> 00:00:37,320 Speaker 1: on October nine, and then the next night we're going 13 00:00:37,360 --> 00:00:40,360 Speaker 1: to be in New Orleans at the Civic Theater. That's right, 14 00:00:40,400 --> 00:00:42,479 Speaker 1: and then we're gonna round it out in Brooklyn October 15 00:00:44,080 --> 00:00:46,400 Speaker 1: at the Bellhouse. Yep. So come see us. You can 16 00:00:46,400 --> 00:00:49,520 Speaker 1: get tickets and info at s Y s K live 17 00:00:49,640 --> 00:00:53,800 Speaker 1: dot com. Welcome to Stuff You Should Know, a production 18 00:00:53,840 --> 00:01:02,400 Speaker 1: of Ive Heart Radios How Stuff Works. Hey, and welcome 19 00:01:02,400 --> 00:01:05,959 Speaker 1: to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark, There's Charles W. Chuck Bryant, 20 00:01:06,040 --> 00:01:10,600 Speaker 1: There's Jerry Jerome rolland over there sitting on Frank the 21 00:01:10,720 --> 00:01:14,000 Speaker 1: chair was not very happy about that. But still, this 22 00:01:14,120 --> 00:01:16,520 Speaker 1: is stuff you should know. I thought Jerry's entrance today 23 00:01:16,600 --> 00:01:22,280 Speaker 1: was unique. Oh yeah, yeah, man. When they when Matt 24 00:01:22,360 --> 00:01:24,440 Speaker 1: and Tyler brought her end rolled up in a carpet 25 00:01:25,360 --> 00:01:29,319 Speaker 1: to out on the studio floor and she said fire me. 26 00:01:32,840 --> 00:01:34,679 Speaker 1: We said, Jerry, we don't have that kind of power. 27 00:01:35,160 --> 00:01:37,440 Speaker 1: But she just it was amazing. It was almost like 28 00:01:37,560 --> 00:01:39,960 Speaker 1: playing the whole thing reverse. She rolled herself back up 29 00:01:39,959 --> 00:01:42,720 Speaker 1: in the carpet in one swift motion. That's right. And 30 00:01:42,760 --> 00:01:46,560 Speaker 1: if you are a Cleo pat write, then uh you 31 00:01:46,760 --> 00:01:49,200 Speaker 1: got a little chuckle out of that joke. If not, 32 00:01:49,320 --> 00:01:53,000 Speaker 1: you're probably thinking that we're on drugs or something. Yeah, 33 00:01:53,120 --> 00:01:56,120 Speaker 1: I guess you could probably think both, but um, neither 34 00:01:56,240 --> 00:01:59,080 Speaker 1: is true. What is true is that you're about to 35 00:01:59,080 --> 00:02:04,600 Speaker 1: be confused for the minutes. That's a great set up, man, 36 00:02:04,640 --> 00:02:09,320 Speaker 1: We're gonna confuse everybody. Yeah boy, this is good dentse uh. 37 00:02:09,360 --> 00:02:11,320 Speaker 1: And there are a lot, a lot, a lot of 38 00:02:11,400 --> 00:02:16,040 Speaker 1: names with the numbers that follow in uh, not triumbrates 39 00:02:16,080 --> 00:02:19,560 Speaker 1: and not even regular numbers, numbers that are actually letters 40 00:02:20,200 --> 00:02:25,359 Speaker 1: Roman style. So here we go. This is gonna be good, Chuck. Oh. 41 00:02:25,400 --> 00:02:28,960 Speaker 1: By the way, if you uh live in Chicago or Toronto, 42 00:02:29,120 --> 00:02:32,640 Speaker 1: or Boston or Portland, Maine, or Orlando, Florida, or New 43 00:02:32,760 --> 00:02:35,160 Speaker 1: Orleans or Brooklyn, New York, you should go to s 44 00:02:35,280 --> 00:02:38,600 Speaker 1: Y s K live dot com yea and check out 45 00:02:38,600 --> 00:02:41,400 Speaker 1: our tour dates. We're going to those cities, and you 46 00:02:41,440 --> 00:02:43,560 Speaker 1: can buy tickets at s Y s K live dot 47 00:02:43,560 --> 00:02:46,519 Speaker 1: com and get information about things like is it a 48 00:02:46,760 --> 00:02:49,000 Speaker 1: twenty one and up show? I don't think any of 49 00:02:49,000 --> 00:02:52,720 Speaker 1: them are. What time or doors? Probably seven, but you 50 00:02:52,840 --> 00:02:55,040 Speaker 1: better check that kind of stuff. You can go find 51 00:02:55,160 --> 00:02:59,080 Speaker 1: that info by visiting ss K live and then following 52 00:02:59,120 --> 00:03:02,360 Speaker 1: the hyperlinks out to other websites on the internet. That's right. 53 00:03:02,400 --> 00:03:04,320 Speaker 1: If you've never seen us live, come on out. It's 54 00:03:04,320 --> 00:03:07,160 Speaker 1: a lot of fun. And if you have, just come 55 00:03:07,200 --> 00:03:09,760 Speaker 1: on back and get a second helping of us, yep 56 00:03:10,240 --> 00:03:14,800 Speaker 1: uh second heapen helping of our hospitality. Now onto Cleopatra. 57 00:03:16,160 --> 00:03:19,000 Speaker 1: Good call, by the way, good call for for saying 58 00:03:19,000 --> 00:03:23,960 Speaker 1: all that. Great So Cleopatra, She's one of those historical 59 00:03:24,000 --> 00:03:26,880 Speaker 1: figures that everybody knows about. But if you stop and 60 00:03:26,919 --> 00:03:29,280 Speaker 1: ask yourself what do you know about her? And realize 61 00:03:29,320 --> 00:03:32,720 Speaker 1: you know next to nothing about her. You know, she 62 00:03:32,919 --> 00:03:38,720 Speaker 1: was amazingly beautiful. She um looked like Liz Taylor. Um 63 00:03:38,800 --> 00:03:44,200 Speaker 1: she uh, she loved Julius Caesar and maybe Mark Anthony too. 64 00:03:44,520 --> 00:03:47,200 Speaker 1: And wait a minute, how did she love both? Were? 65 00:03:47,400 --> 00:03:49,920 Speaker 1: What's going on here? You just realize you get confused 66 00:03:49,960 --> 00:03:53,400 Speaker 1: pretty quickly. Was she a feminist icon? Was she actually 67 00:03:53,440 --> 00:03:57,920 Speaker 1: just kind of a uh, a wily woman who used 68 00:03:57,960 --> 00:04:01,640 Speaker 1: sexuality to get what she wants? Who knows? The problem 69 00:04:01,720 --> 00:04:05,760 Speaker 1: is this, She's one of those historical figures that we 70 00:04:05,840 --> 00:04:09,880 Speaker 1: know very little about because historians know very little about her. Like, 71 00:04:09,960 --> 00:04:13,600 Speaker 1: she was not extensively document as famous as she is, 72 00:04:13,960 --> 00:04:18,919 Speaker 1: she was not extensively documented by her own people, the Egyptians. Yeah, 73 00:04:18,960 --> 00:04:21,760 Speaker 1: which is a little strange, because she was beloved by 74 00:04:21,760 --> 00:04:24,120 Speaker 1: the Egyptians from what we can tell, yea, from what 75 00:04:24,160 --> 00:04:26,359 Speaker 1: we can tell. But most of the information we have 76 00:04:26,520 --> 00:04:34,320 Speaker 1: is very Greco Roman, especially this Plutarch chump, well Plutarch 77 00:04:34,400 --> 00:04:39,200 Speaker 1: actually he was the first to to show any sympathy whatsoever. 78 00:04:40,080 --> 00:04:42,320 Speaker 1: The guys who came a little before him, they were 79 00:04:42,720 --> 00:04:46,479 Speaker 1: they were just all out meanings. Because the Romans did 80 00:04:46,520 --> 00:04:52,320 Speaker 1: not like um Cleopatra in general. They found her um 81 00:04:52,360 --> 00:04:55,919 Speaker 1: at the very least problematic, and that she kept luring 82 00:04:55,960 --> 00:05:00,040 Speaker 1: away some of their favorite sons. And then usually of 83 00:05:00,080 --> 00:05:05,279 Speaker 1: the detriment of Rome or symbolically, the idea if she 84 00:05:05,480 --> 00:05:08,000 Speaker 1: was a great ruler, as as she seems to have 85 00:05:08,080 --> 00:05:12,520 Speaker 1: been at least above average, if not like one of 86 00:05:12,560 --> 00:05:15,919 Speaker 1: the better, better rules around. If there was this woman 87 00:05:16,000 --> 00:05:18,719 Speaker 1: who was you know, kind of in the public eye 88 00:05:18,760 --> 00:05:22,440 Speaker 1: and basically in ancient, old timing Roman news all the time, 89 00:05:22,800 --> 00:05:25,280 Speaker 1: and she was a female who was really good at 90 00:05:25,360 --> 00:05:29,240 Speaker 1: ruling that was a threat to Rome's established patriarchy, that 91 00:05:29,320 --> 00:05:31,760 Speaker 1: wasn't supposed to be able to happen. And so Rome 92 00:05:31,880 --> 00:05:34,719 Speaker 1: came up with all of these popular ideas for why 93 00:05:34,920 --> 00:05:36,839 Speaker 1: she was able to do that, and usually it came 94 00:05:36,839 --> 00:05:40,960 Speaker 1: down to sex and or magic um, and that that 95 00:05:41,040 --> 00:05:44,479 Speaker 1: was how Cleopatra got through. And so over the last 96 00:05:44,520 --> 00:05:48,919 Speaker 1: couple of thousand years, UM, it's kind of our idea 97 00:05:49,040 --> 00:05:52,480 Speaker 1: or image of Cleopatra's kind of come up from this 98 00:05:52,480 --> 00:05:57,560 Speaker 1: this brew Uh seen through Roman eyes, and it's only 99 00:05:57,720 --> 00:06:00,120 Speaker 1: very recent that people have really kind of started to 100 00:06:00,160 --> 00:06:04,400 Speaker 1: dig in and try to examine her academically and with 101 00:06:04,440 --> 00:06:10,480 Speaker 1: what you know, small, meager firsthand sources and accounts exist. Yeah, 102 00:06:10,520 --> 00:06:15,119 Speaker 1: I mean she ruled ancient Egypt. She was the last pharaoh. Um. 103 00:06:15,200 --> 00:06:19,120 Speaker 1: She was the first woman sovereign who rule all by 104 00:06:19,120 --> 00:06:23,160 Speaker 1: herself for more than a decade, which was quite an accomplishment. 105 00:06:24,279 --> 00:06:27,719 Speaker 1: And um, how she got there is a very long 106 00:06:27,760 --> 00:06:31,719 Speaker 1: and sort of convoluted story. Yeah. When you think of Egypt, Chuck, 107 00:06:31,920 --> 00:06:35,039 Speaker 1: we think of like pharaohs and Isis and Osiris and 108 00:06:35,080 --> 00:06:39,880 Speaker 1: all of that. Um, and when you think of Cleopatra too. 109 00:06:39,960 --> 00:06:42,440 Speaker 1: But Cleopatra was different. She was different from all the 110 00:06:42,440 --> 00:06:45,520 Speaker 1: pharaohs that came before. She was um different from most 111 00:06:45,520 --> 00:06:47,960 Speaker 1: of the pharaos that came before, and that she came 112 00:06:48,000 --> 00:06:51,040 Speaker 1: from a family line that had been established only about 113 00:06:51,080 --> 00:06:55,320 Speaker 1: three and fifty years before when Alexander the Great, General 114 00:06:55,360 --> 00:06:59,920 Speaker 1: Ptolemy UM said Alexander died, we're dividing up as king. 115 00:07:00,279 --> 00:07:03,919 Speaker 1: I'm taking Egypt. And he said, hey, Egyptians, you know 116 00:07:03,920 --> 00:07:06,679 Speaker 1: how you had this line of pharaohs that ruled the country. 117 00:07:06,800 --> 00:07:08,839 Speaker 1: Well you got a new one. And it's me and 118 00:07:08,920 --> 00:07:13,200 Speaker 1: my descendants. And I'm not Egyptian, I'm actually Macedonian. But 119 00:07:13,320 --> 00:07:16,760 Speaker 1: I'm in charge here and I'm naming myself um Ptolemy 120 00:07:16,840 --> 00:07:20,760 Speaker 1: the first uh, suitor. I believe it's s u t 121 00:07:20,920 --> 00:07:24,720 Speaker 1: o r, which means savior of Egypt. And he established 122 00:07:24,720 --> 00:07:29,120 Speaker 1: the Ptolemaic line, and from that point on um all 123 00:07:29,160 --> 00:07:33,240 Speaker 1: of the people who ruled as pharaohs over Egypt came 124 00:07:33,280 --> 00:07:37,560 Speaker 1: from Ptolemy UM and his his um children. Yeah, I 125 00:07:37,560 --> 00:07:39,760 Speaker 1: mean that was a few hundred years worth a pretty 126 00:07:39,760 --> 00:07:42,040 Speaker 1: good run there. It was a pretty good run. But 127 00:07:42,080 --> 00:07:43,520 Speaker 1: you don't think of that like, you know, you think 128 00:07:43,560 --> 00:07:47,000 Speaker 1: of Cleopatra as a pharaoh like any other pharaoh. She wasn't. 129 00:07:47,040 --> 00:07:50,520 Speaker 1: She was different. She was probably of Macedonian descent because 130 00:07:50,520 --> 00:07:53,280 Speaker 1: she was descended from Ptolemy. But they also are not 131 00:07:53,360 --> 00:07:58,080 Speaker 1: sure was she Egyptian to like ethnic Egyptian Um. Some 132 00:07:58,120 --> 00:08:02,160 Speaker 1: people believe that she was subsa Air and African descent. Um. 133 00:08:02,200 --> 00:08:04,800 Speaker 1: It's just totally up in the air of exactly what 134 00:08:04,840 --> 00:08:09,000 Speaker 1: her ethnicity was. But she was definitely not descended from 135 00:08:09,040 --> 00:08:13,280 Speaker 1: the pharaohs before. But in establishing this line, Ptolemy said, well, 136 00:08:13,320 --> 00:08:15,520 Speaker 1: I get that you guys are really big into the 137 00:08:15,560 --> 00:08:19,480 Speaker 1: idea that that kings or pharaohs and queens are divine. 138 00:08:19,880 --> 00:08:22,200 Speaker 1: So we're gonna say that that applies to my line too. 139 00:08:22,440 --> 00:08:25,280 Speaker 1: And what's this incest you guys are into. We'll give 140 00:08:25,280 --> 00:08:28,840 Speaker 1: that a try to. And the Ptolemaic line carried on 141 00:08:28,880 --> 00:08:34,720 Speaker 1: those customs as well. Yeah, so the Ptolemy's, Ptolemy's, Ptolemy's 142 00:08:35,520 --> 00:08:38,640 Speaker 1: whatever you want to say, man Um, they were Greek 143 00:08:38,679 --> 00:08:42,880 Speaker 1: speakers and observed Greek customs, um, which if you're living 144 00:08:42,880 --> 00:08:45,520 Speaker 1: in Egypt, seems like a bit of a contradiction because 145 00:08:46,000 --> 00:08:49,440 Speaker 1: people in Egypt weren't Greek, and that kind of caused 146 00:08:49,440 --> 00:08:55,600 Speaker 1: a separation. Um, Cleopatrick was was Cleopatrick. What I said 147 00:08:56,240 --> 00:08:59,800 Speaker 1: Cleopatra was sounds like Cleopatrick sounds like a new comedy 148 00:08:59,800 --> 00:09:04,679 Speaker 1: come this fall, and it totally does. Oh boy, Um 149 00:09:04,720 --> 00:09:08,600 Speaker 1: who rules like her local you know, uh Brooklyn apartment 150 00:09:08,640 --> 00:09:12,600 Speaker 1: building or something, and she comes in. How they introduced 151 00:09:12,600 --> 00:09:14,080 Speaker 1: her as a character as she comes and rolled up 152 00:09:14,120 --> 00:09:17,440 Speaker 1: in the carpet in the pilot that she made herself. Man, 153 00:09:17,520 --> 00:09:22,319 Speaker 1: this thing writes itself. So Cleopatra distinguished herself by coming 154 00:09:22,360 --> 00:09:24,199 Speaker 1: in And we'll get to all this in more detail. 155 00:09:24,240 --> 00:09:26,560 Speaker 1: But she was popular in Egypt because she came in 156 00:09:26,600 --> 00:09:28,880 Speaker 1: and she was like, Hey, what do you need Egypt. 157 00:09:28,920 --> 00:09:32,520 Speaker 1: I'm gonna speak your languages. I'm gonna I'm gonna be 158 00:09:32,640 --> 00:09:35,880 Speaker 1: patriotic for Egypt, and I'm gonna speak a lot of 159 00:09:35,920 --> 00:09:38,600 Speaker 1: languages because I'm super smart, and I don't. In fact, 160 00:09:38,640 --> 00:09:40,959 Speaker 1: I speak so many languages when I go to meet 161 00:09:41,000 --> 00:09:45,360 Speaker 1: with other leaders of other countries and kingdoms, I'm not 162 00:09:45,400 --> 00:09:48,160 Speaker 1: even gonna need my translators and I'm not even gonna 163 00:09:48,160 --> 00:09:50,880 Speaker 1: need my advisors around. I can make my own decisions 164 00:09:51,000 --> 00:09:53,400 Speaker 1: because I'm speaking directly to them in their native tongue. 165 00:09:54,240 --> 00:09:57,880 Speaker 1: Egyptians love that. But her officials in her tram while 166 00:09:57,920 --> 00:10:00,360 Speaker 1: against her translators didn't really have a say. But her 167 00:10:00,400 --> 00:10:04,280 Speaker 1: officials were like, uh, this is upsetting. Well, yeah, because 168 00:10:04,320 --> 00:10:07,280 Speaker 1: it diminished their power. They said, well, you don't you know, 169 00:10:07,360 --> 00:10:10,040 Speaker 1: you're not consulting with us before you start speaking to 170 00:10:10,080 --> 00:10:14,120 Speaker 1: these other foreign powers, these other leaders. And She's like, well, 171 00:10:14,120 --> 00:10:16,000 Speaker 1: I don't need to. I speak their language. I can 172 00:10:16,040 --> 00:10:18,560 Speaker 1: ask them and decide for myself whether they're telling the 173 00:10:18,600 --> 00:10:20,960 Speaker 1: truth or what they actually need or what they what 174 00:10:21,040 --> 00:10:24,840 Speaker 1: they should get. Um. So yeah, just the ascension of 175 00:10:24,880 --> 00:10:29,080 Speaker 1: Cleopatra was different two ways. It diminished the power of 176 00:10:29,120 --> 00:10:32,120 Speaker 1: the officials that had been established by the time her 177 00:10:32,160 --> 00:10:35,240 Speaker 1: father died and left the place to her, and she 178 00:10:35,400 --> 00:10:39,439 Speaker 1: was known as basically a very patriotic pharaoh, and that 179 00:10:39,520 --> 00:10:43,439 Speaker 1: she spoke Egyptian and followed Egyptian customs way more than 180 00:10:43,480 --> 00:10:46,840 Speaker 1: any of the Ptolemy's before her had. So that was 181 00:10:47,080 --> 00:10:49,080 Speaker 1: she was different in that respect a big time right 182 00:10:49,120 --> 00:10:52,640 Speaker 1: out of the gate. Yeah. So she assumed the throne 183 00:10:53,320 --> 00:10:55,520 Speaker 1: as a I guess even for the time a young 184 00:10:55,559 --> 00:10:59,120 Speaker 1: woman of eighteen years old, along with her her braddy, 185 00:10:59,160 --> 00:11:03,040 Speaker 1: little ten year old brother. They're told that guy, uh, 186 00:11:03,080 --> 00:11:05,400 Speaker 1: there was a tradition there that basically said, if you're 187 00:11:05,440 --> 00:11:09,200 Speaker 1: a woman, you need a male consort to rule UM. 188 00:11:09,320 --> 00:11:12,800 Speaker 1: So by the way, marry him, say what? And by 189 00:11:12,840 --> 00:11:15,000 Speaker 1: the way to marry him? Yeah, like technically you have 190 00:11:15,080 --> 00:11:19,760 Speaker 1: to get ceremonially ceremonially married. But you know, that's kind 191 00:11:19,760 --> 00:11:21,360 Speaker 1: of where it ends, unless you don't want it to 192 00:11:21,480 --> 00:11:24,839 Speaker 1: end there, because we're pretty liberal on that front. Sure. 193 00:11:26,080 --> 00:11:30,120 Speaker 1: But the kingdom of Egypt that she inherited was um 194 00:11:30,160 --> 00:11:33,400 Speaker 1: not a healthy one. Um. It had floods and famine, 195 00:11:33,480 --> 00:11:36,200 Speaker 1: it had a bad economy, and it was really up 196 00:11:36,240 --> 00:11:41,760 Speaker 1: to her to forge alliances, um with other places and 197 00:11:41,800 --> 00:11:45,520 Speaker 1: other men in power to to make Egypt what she 198 00:11:45,559 --> 00:11:49,240 Speaker 1: thought it could be. Starting with Julius Caesar. Yeah. So 199 00:11:49,400 --> 00:11:53,640 Speaker 1: at the time, so her father had kind of mortgaged 200 00:11:53,800 --> 00:11:57,880 Speaker 1: Egypt over to Rome to help bail the economy out 201 00:11:57,920 --> 00:12:01,439 Speaker 1: because things are it was hard times even before Cleopatra 202 00:12:01,600 --> 00:12:04,320 Speaker 1: rose of power, and that's what she inherited. Um. So 203 00:12:04,840 --> 00:12:08,240 Speaker 1: Rome already had a pretty big interest in Egypt. Egypt 204 00:12:08,320 --> 00:12:13,400 Speaker 1: was a client state of Rome. Rather than Rome officially 205 00:12:13,559 --> 00:12:17,040 Speaker 1: ruling Egypt and saying like we install the governor all 206 00:12:17,040 --> 00:12:19,640 Speaker 1: that stuff, they said, you can exist and we're gonna 207 00:12:19,640 --> 00:12:22,040 Speaker 1: trade with you. But basically, if we tell you to 208 00:12:22,080 --> 00:12:24,600 Speaker 1: do something, you do it. And that was kind of 209 00:12:24,640 --> 00:12:27,240 Speaker 1: the relationship between Rome and Egypt. So it makes sense 210 00:12:27,280 --> 00:12:30,320 Speaker 1: that she would say, let me, let me get even 211 00:12:30,360 --> 00:12:35,080 Speaker 1: more um cozy with Rome. But who's in power? That 212 00:12:35,200 --> 00:12:37,200 Speaker 1: was a really big question at the time because when 213 00:12:37,240 --> 00:12:42,000 Speaker 1: she rose to power as co ruler with her little brother, 214 00:12:42,360 --> 00:12:44,439 Speaker 1: who by the way, she basically just wrote out of 215 00:12:44,520 --> 00:12:49,040 Speaker 1: power immediately. Um. She That was not an easy question 216 00:12:49,040 --> 00:12:51,520 Speaker 1: to answer because at the time Rome was racked by 217 00:12:51,559 --> 00:12:56,640 Speaker 1: civil wars and specifically there was a triumvirate uh kind 218 00:12:56,679 --> 00:13:02,719 Speaker 1: of a shaky power sharing agreement between Julius Caesar, um 219 00:13:02,920 --> 00:13:07,719 Speaker 1: Pompey and crass as I believe right, that's right. Uh, 220 00:13:07,720 --> 00:13:10,679 Speaker 1: And that is Pompey. He pronounced that. We can't say 221 00:13:10,679 --> 00:13:13,160 Speaker 1: Pompey because I will get confusing. Yeah, it's pomp I 222 00:13:13,200 --> 00:13:16,719 Speaker 1: always said Pompey. It sounds so cute, but he was 223 00:13:16,760 --> 00:13:19,360 Speaker 1: a murderous general. Give me a little Pompey. Alright, let 224 00:13:19,400 --> 00:13:23,680 Speaker 1: stick that knife in somebody. Um. And also, by the way, 225 00:13:23,760 --> 00:13:28,680 Speaker 1: later on Octavian, when did he become Augustus. Oh, that's 226 00:13:28,720 --> 00:13:32,880 Speaker 1: the big finish man. We'll get to that eventually, spoiler, 227 00:13:33,760 --> 00:13:37,360 Speaker 1: because that got a little confusing to all these different names. Yes, 228 00:13:37,440 --> 00:13:40,240 Speaker 1: but that you are correct. Octavian is Augustus or one 229 00:13:40,280 --> 00:13:46,560 Speaker 1: and the same, right, so they both Joaquin Phoenix. The 230 00:13:46,679 --> 00:13:51,400 Speaker 1: Roman Senate was on the side of Pompey. So Julius Caesar, 231 00:13:52,040 --> 00:13:54,839 Speaker 1: um like you said that there was this this this 232 00:13:54,960 --> 00:13:57,680 Speaker 1: sort of deal that they had going on was a 233 00:13:57,800 --> 00:14:03,200 Speaker 1: really kind of um steady detante between civil wars, and 234 00:14:03,280 --> 00:14:05,960 Speaker 1: the Roman Senate supported Pompey and said, Caesar, you gotta 235 00:14:05,960 --> 00:14:07,800 Speaker 1: give up your army. Man. He said, I'm not doing it. 236 00:14:08,160 --> 00:14:11,240 Speaker 1: In fact, not only that, but I'm coming to Italy, guys. 237 00:14:12,040 --> 00:14:16,360 Speaker 1: He leads his his people into Italy across the Rubicon 238 00:14:16,920 --> 00:14:21,240 Speaker 1: and declares war against Pompey and his forces, and he wins. 239 00:14:21,800 --> 00:14:25,720 Speaker 1: He eventually won, quite quite surprisingly because Pompey again had 240 00:14:25,720 --> 00:14:30,240 Speaker 1: the Senate UM backing, and so he had the senatorial forces, 241 00:14:30,320 --> 00:14:34,520 Speaker 1: which vastly outnumbered Caesar's forces, but they were just superior forces, 242 00:14:34,880 --> 00:14:40,280 Speaker 1: and Caesar eventually defeated Pompey well. Pompey UM, being closely 243 00:14:40,280 --> 00:14:45,400 Speaker 1: aligned with Egypt, fled to Egypt, which is pretty understandable. Um, 244 00:14:45,920 --> 00:14:48,080 Speaker 1: you can also understand why he would have fled to Egypt. 245 00:14:48,160 --> 00:14:54,960 Speaker 1: He was the state designated guardian of Ptolemy the twelve Kids, 246 00:14:54,960 --> 00:14:58,400 Speaker 1: which was Cleopatra and told me the thirteen among others, 247 00:14:58,440 --> 00:15:01,840 Speaker 1: here we go. So he went, thought, Okay, this will 248 00:15:01,920 --> 00:15:03,960 Speaker 1: be great. I'll just sit around and eat grapes for 249 00:15:04,000 --> 00:15:05,680 Speaker 1: the rest of my days in Egypt. It's not a 250 00:15:05,720 --> 00:15:09,600 Speaker 1: bad forced retirement. But when he got there he found 251 00:15:09,640 --> 00:15:15,640 Speaker 1: that Cleopatra and her sister ar Sinewy had been had 252 00:15:15,680 --> 00:15:20,560 Speaker 1: been forced into exile, and that Pompey was was in 253 00:15:20,920 --> 00:15:23,360 Speaker 1: or not. I'm sorry tooleom me the thirteen like it's 254 00:15:23,400 --> 00:15:27,680 Speaker 1: not confusing enough. Already Um was in power. This little 255 00:15:27,720 --> 00:15:31,880 Speaker 1: boy king boy Pharaoh was in power, and and Ptolemy 256 00:15:32,120 --> 00:15:36,760 Speaker 1: thought Caesar just won his his vanquished enemy just showed 257 00:15:36,800 --> 00:15:40,680 Speaker 1: up in my doorstep. I'm gonna get killed for harboring 258 00:15:40,720 --> 00:15:44,160 Speaker 1: this guy. So I'm gonna have Pompey killed. And he did. 259 00:15:44,280 --> 00:15:48,600 Speaker 1: He had Pompey killed and decapitated in an effort to 260 00:15:48,680 --> 00:15:52,440 Speaker 1: curry favor with Caesar. Didn't work, No, it did not work, 261 00:15:52,480 --> 00:15:55,360 Speaker 1: because Caesar said, hey, hey, hey, I was gonna pardon 262 00:15:55,440 --> 00:15:59,080 Speaker 1: that guy, you moron, and and like become beloved to 263 00:15:59,120 --> 00:16:01,680 Speaker 1: the Roman citizen, and he just cut his head off. 264 00:16:01,960 --> 00:16:05,240 Speaker 1: I'm coming for you. And so Caesar um crossed into 265 00:16:05,240 --> 00:16:10,840 Speaker 1: Egypt to invade and basically depose Ptolemy. That's right. So 266 00:16:11,000 --> 00:16:13,880 Speaker 1: he gets to Egypt. Now Caesar does, he declares martial 267 00:16:13,960 --> 00:16:17,040 Speaker 1: law and basically moves into the royal palace ands like 268 00:16:17,080 --> 00:16:20,040 Speaker 1: this is my place. Now, it's my place. And so 269 00:16:20,160 --> 00:16:23,120 Speaker 1: Cleopatra at this point is like, all right, here's the deal. 270 00:16:23,560 --> 00:16:26,080 Speaker 1: I need Caesar support here if I'm gonna get back 271 00:16:26,080 --> 00:16:29,320 Speaker 1: on that throne um, So I need to curry favor 272 00:16:29,360 --> 00:16:32,880 Speaker 1: with him. And this is the big carpet scene that 273 00:16:32,920 --> 00:16:37,400 Speaker 1: we're talking about, and every sort of pop culture um 274 00:16:38,120 --> 00:16:42,200 Speaker 1: retelling of Cleopatra's story, so which means this is probably true. 275 00:16:43,200 --> 00:16:47,520 Speaker 1: Cleopatra gets back in there by sneaking in, uh skirting 276 00:16:47,560 --> 00:16:51,240 Speaker 1: the enemy lines and the Roman barricades coming in and 277 00:16:51,440 --> 00:16:54,240 Speaker 1: under the under the dead of night, rolled up in 278 00:16:54,240 --> 00:17:00,080 Speaker 1: a carpet and is then presented to Caesar unrolled, and 279 00:17:00,120 --> 00:17:04,159 Speaker 1: he's like, that was fantastic. He just stands up and 280 00:17:04,200 --> 00:17:07,520 Speaker 1: colass roller back up there and do it again. I've 281 00:17:07,560 --> 00:17:10,600 Speaker 1: never seen anything like it. She begs Caesar for aid, 282 00:17:10,800 --> 00:17:14,119 Speaker 1: and it really did apparently win him over, and he 283 00:17:14,200 --> 00:17:16,720 Speaker 1: was like, I like, I like the cut of her jib. Right, 284 00:17:17,040 --> 00:17:24,480 Speaker 1: so they became uh friends with benefits pretty quickly out 285 00:17:24,480 --> 00:17:30,159 Speaker 1: of the gate um. But but from from every account 286 00:17:30,400 --> 00:17:33,560 Speaker 1: of this it was and again it was either carpet 287 00:17:33,680 --> 00:17:35,199 Speaker 1: she was rolled up in a carpet or in like 288 00:17:35,240 --> 00:17:37,480 Speaker 1: a um, some sort of bag like that you carry 289 00:17:37,520 --> 00:17:42,040 Speaker 1: bed in like beg clothes in or whatever. Um. She 290 00:17:42,160 --> 00:17:45,719 Speaker 1: got Caesar on her side like almost immediately, and so 291 00:17:45,800 --> 00:17:48,800 Speaker 1: all of a sudden Cleopatra, who had been forced out 292 00:17:48,840 --> 00:17:54,920 Speaker 1: of rule by Ptolomy, was now aligned with the guy 293 00:17:55,000 --> 00:17:57,720 Speaker 1: who had just invaded Egypt and taken over and declared 294 00:17:57,760 --> 00:18:00,639 Speaker 1: martial law, which was bad news for Tolom, and it 295 00:18:00,760 --> 00:18:03,480 Speaker 1: was also bad news for ar Sinewy, who had who 296 00:18:03,520 --> 00:18:06,920 Speaker 1: had left. She had come back with Cleopatra and then 297 00:18:07,080 --> 00:18:11,880 Speaker 1: left to go have Ptolemy proclaimed her queen of Egypt Um. 298 00:18:11,920 --> 00:18:17,240 Speaker 1: So she traded sides, and so Cleopatra said, hey, Julius, 299 00:18:17,280 --> 00:18:20,360 Speaker 1: just a couple of quick favors. I want to get 300 00:18:20,440 --> 00:18:24,640 Speaker 1: rid of Tlem also, who actually they found out later 301 00:18:24,680 --> 00:18:27,520 Speaker 1: that he drowned fleeing. He drowned in the Nile. So 302 00:18:27,560 --> 00:18:30,119 Speaker 1: told me the thirteenth is taken care of. The only 303 00:18:30,200 --> 00:18:32,840 Speaker 1: person left out of all I think five or six 304 00:18:33,640 --> 00:18:38,360 Speaker 1: kids in Cleopatra's family, there's one left, Ar Sineway, her 305 00:18:38,600 --> 00:18:41,480 Speaker 1: younger sister. She's like, I can't have a running around. 306 00:18:41,560 --> 00:18:45,240 Speaker 1: She's already shown that she's duplicitus get rid of her. 307 00:18:45,640 --> 00:18:48,399 Speaker 1: So caesar Um to kind of show off that he 308 00:18:48,480 --> 00:18:52,119 Speaker 1: has taken over Egypt. Parades are Sinewy through the town 309 00:18:52,640 --> 00:18:59,200 Speaker 1: through exposed Alexandria in chains, showing that he's vanquished her Um, 310 00:18:59,640 --> 00:19:03,240 Speaker 1: and he, to his surprise, found that this aroused the 311 00:19:03,280 --> 00:19:07,000 Speaker 1: sympathy of the people living in the town, and so 312 00:19:07,040 --> 00:19:10,080 Speaker 1: he ends up sparing our sinewise life, which will come 313 00:19:10,080 --> 00:19:13,280 Speaker 1: back into play later and he he vanquishes her in 314 00:19:13,400 --> 00:19:17,080 Speaker 1: exile to the Temple of Artemis at a Fesus, which 315 00:19:17,080 --> 00:19:19,520 Speaker 1: we talked about in the Seven Wonders of the Ancient 316 00:19:19,560 --> 00:19:23,200 Speaker 1: World episode. But So just put a pin in that, 317 00:19:23,480 --> 00:19:27,000 Speaker 1: Chuck that our Sinewy is alive. She just lives in 318 00:19:27,000 --> 00:19:30,800 Speaker 1: Turkey and exile now, and she is the only person 319 00:19:30,840 --> 00:19:35,199 Speaker 1: who can challenge Cleopatra's claim to the Egyptian throne. All Right, 320 00:19:35,240 --> 00:19:38,119 Speaker 1: let's take a break. Okay, let's get her ducks in 321 00:19:38,200 --> 00:19:41,359 Speaker 1: a row. All right, we'll come back talk more about 322 00:19:41,359 --> 00:20:06,720 Speaker 1: that carpet trick. Okay, So told me he's dead, little brothers, 323 00:20:06,760 --> 00:20:12,000 Speaker 1: dead sisters, vanquished, Uh Caesar. At this point, Um needs 324 00:20:12,040 --> 00:20:15,680 Speaker 1: to he needs money. He needs to fund his return 325 00:20:15,760 --> 00:20:19,960 Speaker 1: to Rome. Uh and returned to power and Cleopatra's dad 326 00:20:20,359 --> 00:20:24,879 Speaker 1: Uh incurred a lot of debts via Egypt, and he's like, hey, listen, 327 00:20:25,240 --> 00:20:27,760 Speaker 1: I gotta like get this money back. And he said, 328 00:20:27,800 --> 00:20:33,440 Speaker 1: you're pretty cool. That carpet trick was awesome, just Gangbusters, Gangbusters. 329 00:20:34,040 --> 00:20:37,160 Speaker 1: So I need Uh. It's fine, you can rule Egypt. 330 00:20:37,200 --> 00:20:39,320 Speaker 1: The two of us here, we're great. We have the 331 00:20:39,400 --> 00:20:41,800 Speaker 1: same you know. I feel like we're on the same level, 332 00:20:41,840 --> 00:20:44,520 Speaker 1: which was a very big deal to uh, for someone 333 00:20:44,560 --> 00:20:46,800 Speaker 1: like Julius Caesar to say that about a female ruler. 334 00:20:47,640 --> 00:20:50,280 Speaker 1: And he stayed there for a while, and they had 335 00:20:50,320 --> 00:20:54,119 Speaker 1: a kid. His name was told me Caesar. Um he was, 336 00:20:54,320 --> 00:20:57,840 Speaker 1: you know, later fully acknowledged from Caesar that he was 337 00:20:57,880 --> 00:20:59,480 Speaker 1: his child. But it was kind of like the love 338 00:20:59,560 --> 00:21:02,240 Speaker 1: child thing, right. He he said, yeah, that's my kid, 339 00:21:02,280 --> 00:21:05,200 Speaker 1: and he's great, good, good looking kid. But he is 340 00:21:05,280 --> 00:21:09,120 Speaker 1: not my official heir. No. But his name, like I said, 341 00:21:09,119 --> 00:21:12,359 Speaker 1: I was told me Caesar. They called him Caesarion or 342 00:21:12,480 --> 00:21:17,200 Speaker 1: little Caesar or Pizza Pizza. Right. I'm sure he saw 343 00:21:17,240 --> 00:21:19,600 Speaker 1: that coming from a mile way. If you hadn't said it, 344 00:21:19,640 --> 00:21:22,560 Speaker 1: I would have said him myself. So all of a sudden, 345 00:21:23,040 --> 00:21:27,560 Speaker 1: Cleopatra is there. Um, she's really sort of solidified her 346 00:21:27,560 --> 00:21:30,720 Speaker 1: position on every front, right, right, So she's got the 347 00:21:30,760 --> 00:21:34,280 Speaker 1: backing of Julius Caesar, who has named himself dictator for life. 348 00:21:34,280 --> 00:21:36,159 Speaker 1: By this time, she got a little brother out of 349 00:21:36,160 --> 00:21:37,960 Speaker 1: the way and sister out of the way for now. 350 00:21:38,240 --> 00:21:41,159 Speaker 1: And and this is this is it's really tough to 351 00:21:41,200 --> 00:21:44,879 Speaker 1: overstate this. She has born an heir. She's the only 352 00:21:45,200 --> 00:21:47,320 Speaker 1: the only she's the pharaoh, she's the ruler of Egypt, 353 00:21:47,400 --> 00:21:51,120 Speaker 1: and she's now born an heir, a male heir who 354 00:21:51,240 --> 00:21:53,119 Speaker 1: is not only a male hera going to be the 355 00:21:53,119 --> 00:21:58,040 Speaker 1: next pharaoh, but he is the blood descendant of Julius 356 00:21:58,119 --> 00:22:02,680 Speaker 1: Caesar himself. So Egypt is real happy with Cleopatra at 357 00:22:02,680 --> 00:22:05,720 Speaker 1: this moment. Rome is not so happy. But it doesn't 358 00:22:05,720 --> 00:22:08,920 Speaker 1: matter because Caesar's like the top dog in charge of everything, 359 00:22:09,119 --> 00:22:11,560 Speaker 1: and things are going well for a little while. Um, 360 00:22:11,640 --> 00:22:15,680 Speaker 1: so much so that Caesar or that um uh, Cleopatra 361 00:22:16,080 --> 00:22:19,520 Speaker 1: and little Caesar go visit Big Caesar in Rome for 362 00:22:19,520 --> 00:22:22,240 Speaker 1: a little while and set up household right across the 363 00:22:22,320 --> 00:22:25,320 Speaker 1: river from Caesar's house. And at Caesar's house, if you 364 00:22:25,440 --> 00:22:28,199 Speaker 1: had happened to to to go across the way and 365 00:22:28,640 --> 00:22:30,960 Speaker 1: um peek in one of the windows, you'd find, Oh, 366 00:22:31,040 --> 00:22:34,040 Speaker 1: Caesar has another family. He's got a wife and kids, 367 00:22:34,400 --> 00:22:37,600 Speaker 1: and um, they're not super happy with him for having 368 00:22:37,960 --> 00:22:41,600 Speaker 1: run around on them and had another kid with Cleopatra. 369 00:22:41,760 --> 00:22:44,280 Speaker 1: But what are you gonna do. She's the ruler of Egypt, 370 00:22:44,320 --> 00:22:47,000 Speaker 1: and by the way, she's spending the summer across the 371 00:22:47,080 --> 00:22:50,840 Speaker 1: river from us. That's right, So as a ruler, things 372 00:22:50,840 --> 00:22:54,080 Speaker 1: are going pretty great for Cleopatra. Um. Like I mentioned earlier, 373 00:22:54,119 --> 00:22:59,119 Speaker 1: they really liked her. She was she related to the people, 374 00:22:59,200 --> 00:23:02,040 Speaker 1: They related to her her. Um, like you said, she 375 00:23:02,080 --> 00:23:05,520 Speaker 1: lived the Egyptian lifestyle. She whenever she had portraits drawn 376 00:23:05,560 --> 00:23:09,080 Speaker 1: of herself, she was like, do the Egyptian thing, because 377 00:23:09,080 --> 00:23:12,280 Speaker 1: it's great and the people will love it. Um. She 378 00:23:12,359 --> 00:23:15,240 Speaker 1: was identified on a papyrus and thirty five b c. 379 00:23:16,040 --> 00:23:20,200 Speaker 1: As she who loves her country. Yeah, Philip patter in Greek, 380 00:23:20,600 --> 00:23:23,439 Speaker 1: she who loves her country. That's right. But she was 381 00:23:23,480 --> 00:23:27,840 Speaker 1: a fully Egyptian pharaoh and a very patriotic and that 382 00:23:27,960 --> 00:23:32,439 Speaker 1: just further like cemented her position as someone beloved by 383 00:23:32,480 --> 00:23:35,399 Speaker 1: the Egyptians. And it's at this point that it's like 384 00:23:36,240 --> 00:23:38,000 Speaker 1: it's pretty obvious that it's a real shame that you 385 00:23:38,000 --> 00:23:42,280 Speaker 1: didn't get any writings from the Egyptians, you know. Yeah, yeah, 386 00:23:42,359 --> 00:23:48,800 Speaker 1: that there was there were some busts I believe of 387 00:23:48,840 --> 00:23:52,680 Speaker 1: her possibly um that may have been lost. There was 388 00:23:52,720 --> 00:23:54,520 Speaker 1: a coin that turned up, but for the most part, 389 00:23:54,600 --> 00:23:57,240 Speaker 1: like they didn't really document her rule, which again it's 390 00:23:57,320 --> 00:24:01,800 Speaker 1: really really weird. Um. But there are some like like 391 00:24:01,840 --> 00:24:04,960 Speaker 1: it was a massive bureaucracy that she operated. It was 392 00:24:04,960 --> 00:24:08,040 Speaker 1: not just Egypt, but it was a huge chunk of 393 00:24:08,720 --> 00:24:18,160 Speaker 1: northeast Africa and southwest Mediterranean UM that she ruled over. UM. 394 00:24:18,320 --> 00:24:20,880 Speaker 1: And you know, being in league with Caesar definitely didn't 395 00:24:20,920 --> 00:24:24,720 Speaker 1: hurt things, so empire kept expanding. She but on her own. 396 00:24:24,760 --> 00:24:26,879 Speaker 1: This is the thing, Like, it's not lost on us, 397 00:24:26,880 --> 00:24:30,520 Speaker 1: everybody who's listening that we're telling this story through the 398 00:24:30,560 --> 00:24:33,960 Speaker 1: fact that Caesar is a huge part of her life 399 00:24:34,040 --> 00:24:37,040 Speaker 1: or that room, whatever Rome's doing. UM. This is the 400 00:24:37,480 --> 00:24:40,960 Speaker 1: documentary evidence we have. But there's also other evidence too, 401 00:24:41,560 --> 00:24:44,600 Speaker 1: very sparse evidence, but there is evidence that like with 402 00:24:44,800 --> 00:24:47,840 Speaker 1: or without Caesar, like she she was afforded like a 403 00:24:47,880 --> 00:24:51,239 Speaker 1: bigger opportunity by being in league with Caesar, but she 404 00:24:51,359 --> 00:24:53,840 Speaker 1: took that and ran with it on her own, without 405 00:24:53,880 --> 00:24:57,200 Speaker 1: the direct aid of Caesar. So she expanded her empire. 406 00:24:57,320 --> 00:25:00,840 Speaker 1: She started trading to further and further areas like Arabia. 407 00:25:00,960 --> 00:25:04,000 Speaker 1: There's potential evidence that they were trading as far away 408 00:25:04,040 --> 00:25:08,800 Speaker 1: as India at the time. UM. And she was really good, 409 00:25:08,840 --> 00:25:12,160 Speaker 1: from what we could tell, at figuring out what somebody 410 00:25:12,200 --> 00:25:15,440 Speaker 1: needed and making them dependent on her for it. UM. 411 00:25:16,640 --> 00:25:18,680 Speaker 1: One of the ways she would do that was um 412 00:25:18,720 --> 00:25:22,040 Speaker 1: like she identified people who could help her to like 413 00:25:22,240 --> 00:25:26,440 Speaker 1: later on, after Caesar died, there would be a general 414 00:25:26,880 --> 00:25:31,600 Speaker 1: Um who was really important. He was stationed in Egypt, 415 00:25:31,640 --> 00:25:34,080 Speaker 1: so it was it was really good for her to 416 00:25:34,080 --> 00:25:35,960 Speaker 1: be on good terms with them. So she basically gave 417 00:25:36,040 --> 00:25:38,880 Speaker 1: him a tax break that said, hey, you can bring 418 00:25:38,880 --> 00:25:43,480 Speaker 1: in UM five thousand and four of wine from Rome 419 00:25:43,720 --> 00:25:47,760 Speaker 1: every year tax free. You can export ten thousand UM 420 00:25:47,800 --> 00:25:51,159 Speaker 1: bags of wheat tax free. That must have been an 421 00:25:51,320 --> 00:25:54,920 Speaker 1: enormous amount of money that that this guy saved. And 422 00:25:55,480 --> 00:25:57,080 Speaker 1: the way that she would do this in her own 423 00:25:57,080 --> 00:26:01,120 Speaker 1: style was found later on. So on this royal decrease, 424 00:26:01,200 --> 00:26:04,800 Speaker 1: saying that this is the case. In her handwriting, she 425 00:26:04,880 --> 00:26:10,160 Speaker 1: wrote um guinness stoy, which is Greek for make it so, 426 00:26:11,080 --> 00:26:13,400 Speaker 1: And they found this. There's like a document out there 427 00:26:13,440 --> 00:26:17,399 Speaker 1: that has Cleopatra's handwriting on it. Um. But it was 428 00:26:17,440 --> 00:26:19,760 Speaker 1: basically to to to make sure that this guy felt 429 00:26:19,760 --> 00:26:21,919 Speaker 1: taken care of so he would remain her ally. And 430 00:26:21,960 --> 00:26:25,240 Speaker 1: that's how she operated. She knew very clearly how to 431 00:26:26,080 --> 00:26:28,640 Speaker 1: um make people like her or how to make them 432 00:26:28,680 --> 00:26:31,800 Speaker 1: dependent on her. And then under that she signed her 433 00:26:31,880 --> 00:26:36,960 Speaker 1: name and then put TCB with a lightning bolt through it. Right, 434 00:26:38,240 --> 00:26:42,080 Speaker 1: you know what's cool is that document. They found it accidentally. 435 00:26:42,400 --> 00:26:45,960 Speaker 1: It was used as lining for a sarcophagus that a 436 00:26:46,040 --> 00:26:49,239 Speaker 1: mummy was found in, and somehow they found this thing 437 00:26:49,280 --> 00:26:54,359 Speaker 1: and figured out this is Cleopatra's handwriting. Amazing. It is 438 00:26:54,359 --> 00:26:57,399 Speaker 1: pretty amazing to have that that that relic, you know, 439 00:26:57,480 --> 00:27:01,560 Speaker 1: exists in the world still. So later on forty six BC, 440 00:27:02,000 --> 00:27:07,000 Speaker 1: Caesar Um returned to Rome and then Cleopatra, like you said, 441 00:27:07,119 --> 00:27:09,000 Speaker 1: we went there at some point to visit. And this 442 00:27:09,040 --> 00:27:12,240 Speaker 1: is where this is where the big acknowledgement that little 443 00:27:12,280 --> 00:27:15,400 Speaker 1: Caesar was was his son, but not the airs where 444 00:27:15,440 --> 00:27:21,040 Speaker 1: that finally happened Um, and Caesar was murdered very famously. 445 00:27:21,160 --> 00:27:22,639 Speaker 1: I don't know a few people have heard about that, 446 00:27:23,560 --> 00:27:27,280 Speaker 1: but he was stabbing in the back quite literally. On 447 00:27:27,320 --> 00:27:31,760 Speaker 1: my birthday. Cleopatra goes back to Egypt. UM told me 448 00:27:32,600 --> 00:27:38,800 Speaker 1: fourteen dies soon after this, and that means little Caesar 449 00:27:39,080 --> 00:27:42,200 Speaker 1: as all of a sudden co regent with mommy as 450 00:27:42,240 --> 00:27:46,959 Speaker 1: told me, I'm sorry, right, told me fifteen. Right. So 451 00:27:47,040 --> 00:27:50,440 Speaker 1: now little Caesar is officially the air. I think by 452 00:27:50,480 --> 00:27:54,359 Speaker 1: this time he was like thirteen or sixteen or something 453 00:27:54,400 --> 00:27:56,919 Speaker 1: like that. He was he was getting up there in 454 00:27:57,000 --> 00:27:59,520 Speaker 1: years no, I'm sorry. That was later on. So yeah, 455 00:27:59,520 --> 00:28:01,760 Speaker 1: he was a little kids still use three. Oh he 456 00:28:01,880 --> 00:28:06,720 Speaker 1: was three? Okay. So, um, after Caesar dies, like, everything's 457 00:28:06,760 --> 00:28:08,359 Speaker 1: kind of up in the air. This is a pretty 458 00:28:08,359 --> 00:28:12,119 Speaker 1: big surprise to everybody. But Caesar had boys, right, He 459 00:28:12,200 --> 00:28:15,640 Speaker 1: had people that loved him, one of which was Octavian, 460 00:28:16,040 --> 00:28:22,520 Speaker 1: who was his grand nephew I think, who Caesar allegedly adopted. Um. 461 00:28:22,560 --> 00:28:25,200 Speaker 1: There was also another one named Mark Antony, who was 462 00:28:25,280 --> 00:28:29,920 Speaker 1: Caesar's kind of right hand man. Um. And they said, hey, 463 00:28:30,000 --> 00:28:32,320 Speaker 1: you know what, this is not cool. We're gonna get 464 00:28:32,359 --> 00:28:38,280 Speaker 1: Brutus and Cassius who orchestrated this assassination, and another civil 465 00:28:38,360 --> 00:28:40,840 Speaker 1: war erupted in Rome. Yeah, and we can't leave out 466 00:28:40,880 --> 00:28:44,840 Speaker 1: Lapidis because this was the official second triumvirate. Okay, you're right, Uh, 467 00:28:44,880 --> 00:28:47,480 Speaker 1: And you can't be a triumvirate without Lapidis. No, I 468 00:28:47,560 --> 00:28:49,200 Speaker 1: gotta have that third guy in there. It's just a 469 00:28:49,880 --> 00:28:53,080 Speaker 1: do um for it. No one likes those, that's right. 470 00:28:53,200 --> 00:28:55,480 Speaker 1: So forty two b C. There was the Battle of 471 00:28:55,480 --> 00:28:59,480 Speaker 1: Philippe uh, and the forces of Mark Antony and Octavian 472 00:28:59,600 --> 00:29:03,360 Speaker 1: defeated Brutus and Cassius. And then that means Mark Antony 473 00:29:03,360 --> 00:29:06,800 Speaker 1: can emerge as ruler of the East, which included Egypt 474 00:29:06,880 --> 00:29:10,160 Speaker 1: very importantly, and Octavian held the West on the west side, 475 00:29:10,880 --> 00:29:12,880 Speaker 1: al right, but both of them said we need the 476 00:29:12,880 --> 00:29:16,680 Speaker 1: support of Egypt, which is a very big deal. Um. 477 00:29:16,840 --> 00:29:21,520 Speaker 1: Cleopatra basically, you know, was summoned by Mark Antony and 478 00:29:21,720 --> 00:29:24,240 Speaker 1: she was like, you know what, uh summoned to Sicily 479 00:29:24,240 --> 00:29:27,040 Speaker 1: and she was like, I'm gonna c Cleopatra. I'm gonna 480 00:29:27,080 --> 00:29:30,000 Speaker 1: come when I want to come, right, which was sort 481 00:29:30,040 --> 00:29:33,000 Speaker 1: of a bold move at the time. Yeah, yeah, because 482 00:29:33,040 --> 00:29:36,680 Speaker 1: he was basically accusing her of potentially having given aid 483 00:29:36,840 --> 00:29:40,959 Speaker 1: to brutus Um and Cassius during the Civil War. And 484 00:29:41,040 --> 00:29:44,600 Speaker 1: she and she's saying, not only am I not even 485 00:29:44,680 --> 00:29:46,719 Speaker 1: responding to the allegation, I'm not even gonna show up 486 00:29:46,720 --> 00:29:48,760 Speaker 1: to talk to you until I want to. But when 487 00:29:48,760 --> 00:29:54,040 Speaker 1: she does show up, apparently she made another very grand entrance, 488 00:29:54,080 --> 00:29:57,440 Speaker 1: and this one was memorialized by William Shakespeare in the 489 00:29:57,520 --> 00:30:03,680 Speaker 1: play um Uh, Mark Anthony and Cleopatra appropriately Um, and 490 00:30:03,840 --> 00:30:09,120 Speaker 1: she shows up in this this town um called Tarsus 491 00:30:09,120 --> 00:30:13,479 Speaker 1: in modern day Turkey, um on a barge, a royal barge, 492 00:30:13,560 --> 00:30:16,000 Speaker 1: and these barges by the way, dude, these are like, 493 00:30:16,280 --> 00:30:18,120 Speaker 1: this is not what you think of as like a barge, 494 00:30:18,160 --> 00:30:20,320 Speaker 1: you know, I guess it is kind of what you 495 00:30:20,320 --> 00:30:22,840 Speaker 1: think of as barge, but larger and more opulent. How 496 00:30:22,880 --> 00:30:25,400 Speaker 1: about that? Yeah, I mean it was she came in 497 00:30:25,680 --> 00:30:28,800 Speaker 1: to make a statement. Uh. They were. She was dressed 498 00:30:28,800 --> 00:30:32,720 Speaker 1: as aphrodite. There were purple purple sales, there were loots playing, 499 00:30:32,760 --> 00:30:36,880 Speaker 1: she basically had a band. Um. She was laying on 500 00:30:36,880 --> 00:30:42,160 Speaker 1: a couch on clouds of incense. And Mark Anthony, just 501 00:30:42,240 --> 00:30:45,880 Speaker 1: like Julius Caesar, was like, whoa, we really know how 502 00:30:45,880 --> 00:30:48,800 Speaker 1: to make an entrance. Yeah, and he said, you know 503 00:30:48,880 --> 00:30:51,520 Speaker 1: what I'd like to dine with you? Um, can you 504 00:30:51,560 --> 00:30:53,440 Speaker 1: come here and dine with me? And she said, no, 505 00:30:53,480 --> 00:30:56,080 Speaker 1: why don't you come upon this ship and you dine 506 00:30:56,120 --> 00:30:58,960 Speaker 1: with me? He very famously said, can you come here 507 00:30:58,960 --> 00:31:01,520 Speaker 1: and dine with me? And he did get aboard that 508 00:31:01,560 --> 00:31:03,840 Speaker 1: ship and he did dine with her, and he was 509 00:31:04,160 --> 00:31:10,400 Speaker 1: very much taken with her. Um, and she you know, uh, ultimately, 510 00:31:10,440 --> 00:31:12,440 Speaker 1: I think she very much loved him in the end, 511 00:31:13,040 --> 00:31:16,160 Speaker 1: but she early on at the very least knew what 512 00:31:16,240 --> 00:31:19,720 Speaker 1: she needed from him. Yeah. Because again, this guy's the 513 00:31:20,440 --> 00:31:24,960 Speaker 1: Roman ruler of Egypt basically, and her job is to 514 00:31:25,240 --> 00:31:28,840 Speaker 1: make it so Rome doesn't ever officially rule Egypt, so 515 00:31:28,880 --> 00:31:31,120 Speaker 1: at the very least it stays at arm's length enough 516 00:31:31,200 --> 00:31:34,000 Speaker 1: so Egypt can can be a client state. But she 517 00:31:34,080 --> 00:31:35,960 Speaker 1: also needs to make sure that she doesn't go to 518 00:31:35,960 --> 00:31:39,720 Speaker 1: war with them because they would probably crush Egypt. So 519 00:31:39,840 --> 00:31:43,280 Speaker 1: she's dancing this real fine line. And again, just like 520 00:31:43,320 --> 00:31:46,440 Speaker 1: with Caesar, she basically said, hey guy, I like the 521 00:31:46,520 --> 00:31:48,960 Speaker 1: I like the cut of your jib. Let's figure out 522 00:31:48,960 --> 00:31:51,920 Speaker 1: an alliance and let's also do it a lot too, 523 00:31:52,280 --> 00:31:53,920 Speaker 1: and with what it's like you said though, it's like 524 00:31:53,960 --> 00:31:57,160 Speaker 1: you said that, like whether whether it was because she 525 00:31:57,200 --> 00:31:59,560 Speaker 1: needed something from him, and he also was very much 526 00:31:59,640 --> 00:32:02,240 Speaker 1: dazzled by her wealth as well or her display of wealth. 527 00:32:02,600 --> 00:32:05,440 Speaker 1: But there there does seem to have been unless it's 528 00:32:05,480 --> 00:32:09,200 Speaker 1: just totally fabricated a real love story between the two 529 00:32:09,240 --> 00:32:12,239 Speaker 1: of them. Yeah, I mean they had three kids together. Uh. 530 00:32:12,400 --> 00:32:15,600 Speaker 1: She goes back to Egypt and he's not too far 531 00:32:15,640 --> 00:32:18,160 Speaker 1: behind at this point. Um He's like, all right, I 532 00:32:18,160 --> 00:32:20,880 Speaker 1: gotta I gotta get over there to Egypt and seem 533 00:32:20,880 --> 00:32:25,120 Speaker 1: a lady. Um and his wife Fulvia said, wait a minute, 534 00:32:25,320 --> 00:32:29,040 Speaker 1: I'm your lady and we have kids together. And he says, yeah, 535 00:32:29,080 --> 00:32:31,280 Speaker 1: but you know what, I'm gonna go over there anyway, 536 00:32:31,320 --> 00:32:33,800 Speaker 1: because you know, that's just kind of how things worked 537 00:32:33,840 --> 00:32:38,640 Speaker 1: back then before texts. That's right. Uh. He spent the 538 00:32:38,680 --> 00:32:43,200 Speaker 1: winter of one there in Alexandria. Um. They were getting 539 00:32:43,240 --> 00:32:48,000 Speaker 1: along famously. They formed a drinking group called the Inimitable Livers, 540 00:32:48,760 --> 00:32:52,000 Speaker 1: where they had these big, huge parties and feasts. And 541 00:32:52,160 --> 00:32:54,400 Speaker 1: this is one of the very famous legends of Cleopatra 542 00:32:54,520 --> 00:32:58,440 Speaker 1: came about when she took a pearl and dissolved it. 543 00:32:58,440 --> 00:33:00,719 Speaker 1: It was a very expensive pearl, value at ten million 544 00:33:01,240 --> 00:33:05,720 Speaker 1: smolean's which was enough to maintain ten thousand Roman soldiers 545 00:33:05,720 --> 00:33:08,160 Speaker 1: for a full year. That's a lot of dough. That's 546 00:33:08,160 --> 00:33:09,840 Speaker 1: a lot of dough. And just to prove her wealth, 547 00:33:10,280 --> 00:33:13,080 Speaker 1: she dissolves this thing in a cup of vinegar and 548 00:33:13,160 --> 00:33:16,719 Speaker 1: drinks it. And Mark Antony was like, oh my gosh, 549 00:33:16,840 --> 00:33:21,040 Speaker 1: this lady amazing. Did you see what she just did. 550 00:33:21,440 --> 00:33:24,440 Speaker 1: She just drank a pearl. She just wasted so much money. 551 00:33:24,560 --> 00:33:28,720 Speaker 1: I'm so turned on right now. So, uh, they have twins, 552 00:33:29,040 --> 00:33:34,320 Speaker 1: Alexander Helios and Cleopatra Seline, and this is kind of 553 00:33:34,360 --> 00:33:38,760 Speaker 1: the boom time for Cleopatra and Egypt. She's really solidified 554 00:33:38,760 --> 00:33:43,520 Speaker 1: her stronghold and um, everything is sort of going her 555 00:33:43,520 --> 00:33:46,800 Speaker 1: way at this point. Yeah, in part because Mark Anthony said, 556 00:33:46,920 --> 00:33:49,160 Speaker 1: I got to get back to Rome. I'd like to 557 00:33:49,200 --> 00:33:51,680 Speaker 1: show up really victorious. You know, one of those barges 558 00:33:51,720 --> 00:33:53,920 Speaker 1: you've got, I'd love to have one of those. I 559 00:33:53,960 --> 00:33:57,760 Speaker 1: need some money from you. And with Caesar before again, 560 00:33:58,080 --> 00:34:01,400 Speaker 1: um uh, Cleopatra, his father taught me the twelfth had 561 00:34:01,440 --> 00:34:06,200 Speaker 1: kind of level mortgaged Egypt to Rome. This had not happened. 562 00:34:06,560 --> 00:34:08,799 Speaker 1: Egypt had grown, had kind of gotten out of that 563 00:34:08,840 --> 00:34:13,120 Speaker 1: economic funk when Cleopatra had um had taken over, and 564 00:34:13,160 --> 00:34:16,239 Speaker 1: she had started to steer it even better in better directions. 565 00:34:16,520 --> 00:34:20,239 Speaker 1: So now this was just straight up Mark Anthony um 566 00:34:20,280 --> 00:34:25,000 Speaker 1: borrowing from Egypt, which helped put him in her pocket. 567 00:34:25,280 --> 00:34:27,520 Speaker 1: And she said, I would like to expand my empire. 568 00:34:27,600 --> 00:34:32,120 Speaker 1: He said, done, so he gave to Cleopatra a lot 569 00:34:32,160 --> 00:34:35,759 Speaker 1: of Roman holdings that Egypt had formerly held, and the 570 00:34:36,000 --> 00:34:40,560 Speaker 1: empire just expanded by a pretty decent proportion overnight, just 571 00:34:40,640 --> 00:34:43,880 Speaker 1: with the sweep of Mark Antony's hand in exchange for 572 00:34:44,000 --> 00:34:47,240 Speaker 1: her setting him up to go back to Roman style, 573 00:34:47,280 --> 00:34:50,160 Speaker 1: which he did all right, So let's take a break, okay, 574 00:34:50,360 --> 00:34:53,160 Speaker 1: and we're gonna come back and talk about, uh the 575 00:34:53,200 --> 00:35:16,000 Speaker 1: cracks that start to form right after this. Chuck, so chuck, 576 00:35:16,040 --> 00:35:18,279 Speaker 1: No good time can go on forever. It turns out 577 00:35:18,280 --> 00:35:23,719 Speaker 1: in Cleopatra's story definitely brings that one home to That's right. 578 00:35:24,440 --> 00:35:26,879 Speaker 1: So you didn't like that set up, No, I thought 579 00:35:26,880 --> 00:35:29,240 Speaker 1: it was great. It was like I put the ball 580 00:35:29,320 --> 00:35:31,799 Speaker 1: on the the orange cone and it just kind of 581 00:35:31,840 --> 00:35:36,520 Speaker 1: fell over. So Mark Anthony does a very controversial thing. 582 00:35:36,760 --> 00:35:43,440 Speaker 1: Um he declares little Caesar rightful air rather than Octavian 583 00:35:44,040 --> 00:35:48,440 Speaker 1: right to Julius Caesar. That's correct, And he awarded land 584 00:35:48,440 --> 00:35:51,520 Speaker 1: to each of his children with Cleopatra. We mentioned the twins, 585 00:35:51,560 --> 00:35:55,600 Speaker 1: we did not mention totally me, uh Philadelphos, who's the 586 00:35:55,640 --> 00:35:59,640 Speaker 1: third kid? And this really upset Octavian um as it 587 00:35:59,680 --> 00:36:03,800 Speaker 1: probably should. So he knew that that the Roman people 588 00:36:03,800 --> 00:36:07,120 Speaker 1: were kind of sick of hearing about Cleopatra. Uh, they 589 00:36:07,120 --> 00:36:10,480 Speaker 1: were sick of hearing about uh all of these wars 590 00:36:10,880 --> 00:36:13,520 Speaker 1: going on that these generals are carrying out. And he 591 00:36:13,600 --> 00:36:15,920 Speaker 1: knew that the He knew that it was sort of 592 00:36:15,960 --> 00:36:19,319 Speaker 1: the perfect time to mount a propaganda campaign to turn 593 00:36:19,440 --> 00:36:22,759 Speaker 1: everyone against them. Yeah, because the Romans were like had 594 00:36:22,800 --> 00:36:26,560 Speaker 1: another civil war between two powerful generals that are co ruling. 595 00:36:26,640 --> 00:36:30,760 Speaker 1: Come on, and Octavian had a really good idea of saying, okay, okay, 596 00:36:31,080 --> 00:36:34,920 Speaker 1: I can't turn everybody against Mark Anthony directly, but I 597 00:36:35,000 --> 00:36:38,600 Speaker 1: can turn him against Cleopatra really easily. So I'll just 598 00:36:38,640 --> 00:36:42,759 Speaker 1: start this propaganda campaign that says, um, Cleopatra is a 599 00:36:42,760 --> 00:36:46,040 Speaker 1: threat to Rome. She has using her her wiles or 600 00:36:46,120 --> 00:36:51,000 Speaker 1: her her magic or whatever, Um convinced Mark Anthony to 601 00:36:51,080 --> 00:36:54,279 Speaker 1: give up chunks of Rome and to declare her son 602 00:36:54,760 --> 00:36:58,560 Speaker 1: Caesar's rightful heir. We gotta get rid of Cleopatra. Poor 603 00:36:58,600 --> 00:37:02,960 Speaker 1: Mark Anthony is just her her mesmerized puppet basically. So 604 00:37:03,000 --> 00:37:06,000 Speaker 1: we achieved the same end turning people on Mark Antony, 605 00:37:06,040 --> 00:37:09,760 Speaker 1: but rather than doing it directly, he uses uh Cleopatra, 606 00:37:10,160 --> 00:37:13,279 Speaker 1: and they're kind of suspicion of her being a foreign 607 00:37:13,440 --> 00:37:17,400 Speaker 1: temptress as um as as the crux through which he 608 00:37:17,440 --> 00:37:19,960 Speaker 1: does it. Yeah, and you know, some of this was 609 00:37:21,360 --> 00:37:23,040 Speaker 1: some of this stuff was true, some of it was 610 00:37:23,080 --> 00:37:27,439 Speaker 1: made up. Um Octavian said, hey, listen, I've got his will, 611 00:37:28,320 --> 00:37:31,279 Speaker 1: and you know what he's done. He's turned over Roman 612 00:37:31,320 --> 00:37:34,640 Speaker 1: possessions to Cleopatra and you know what, he's gonna make 613 00:37:34,680 --> 00:37:38,560 Speaker 1: Alexandria in Egypt the capital of Rome. You can just 614 00:37:38,600 --> 00:37:41,480 Speaker 1: hear the gasp. Oh yeah, And it was a big, 615 00:37:41,520 --> 00:37:44,080 Speaker 1: big deal. So in thirty two BC, the Roman Senate 616 00:37:44,080 --> 00:37:48,200 Speaker 1: got involved. Uh, they strip Mark Anthony of his titles. UM, 617 00:37:48,360 --> 00:37:51,239 Speaker 1: and Octavian says, al right, Cleopatra, it's time for us 618 00:37:51,320 --> 00:37:54,080 Speaker 1: to go at it. We're going to war. Your charms 619 00:37:54,080 --> 00:37:58,120 Speaker 1: will not work on me, um and they had not worked, UM. 620 00:37:58,200 --> 00:38:01,319 Speaker 1: And I think Cleopatra knew this all along. So this 621 00:38:01,360 --> 00:38:05,200 Speaker 1: all fed into the narrative that Cleopatra was uh, from 622 00:38:05,200 --> 00:38:10,200 Speaker 1: Egypt and from a different culture that they don't align with. Um, 623 00:38:10,280 --> 00:38:14,800 Speaker 1: she lives there, and she's super wealthy, and she's doing 624 00:38:14,840 --> 00:38:17,799 Speaker 1: these dealings with the Far East in India and at 625 00:38:17,800 --> 00:38:21,200 Speaker 1: the time those places where I guess in Rome scene 626 00:38:21,360 --> 00:38:25,280 Speaker 1: is just very sort of controversial and weird, and they 627 00:38:25,520 --> 00:38:28,680 Speaker 1: thought they practiced in the occult and alchemy and all 628 00:38:28,680 --> 00:38:31,840 Speaker 1: these strange things, and she's doing business with them, and 629 00:38:32,400 --> 00:38:35,959 Speaker 1: she's she's a bad, bad lady, right right, So yeah, 630 00:38:36,000 --> 00:38:39,879 Speaker 1: it was just foreign and weird is basically how Rome 631 00:38:40,040 --> 00:38:42,480 Speaker 1: viewed Egypt. Right. So the idea that that was going 632 00:38:42,560 --> 00:38:45,160 Speaker 1: to be their new set of power did not sit 633 00:38:45,280 --> 00:38:47,440 Speaker 1: very well with them. Whether that was true or not, 634 00:38:47,719 --> 00:38:50,719 Speaker 1: I don't know, but it worked. It got it got 635 00:38:50,800 --> 00:38:54,239 Speaker 1: the um Roman Senate, and the people turned against mark 636 00:38:54,280 --> 00:38:57,880 Speaker 1: Antony so much so that Octavian was able to launch 637 00:38:57,960 --> 00:39:02,320 Speaker 1: an assault on Egypt and Cleopatra and mark Antony, which 638 00:39:02,400 --> 00:39:05,680 Speaker 1: was successful. Right, and that this article makes it kind 639 00:39:05,680 --> 00:39:07,600 Speaker 1: of sound like it happened almost overnight. I think it 640 00:39:07,640 --> 00:39:09,560 Speaker 1: took place over the course of a year or so 641 00:39:09,880 --> 00:39:13,520 Speaker 1: between when the when Rome turned on mark Antony and 642 00:39:13,560 --> 00:39:18,319 Speaker 1: when Octavian was at Egypt store Um. But at some 643 00:39:18,480 --> 00:39:22,200 Speaker 1: point Uh mark Antony during the siege, during this this 644 00:39:22,320 --> 00:39:26,560 Speaker 1: war between Egypt and Rome, which is something Cleopatra had 645 00:39:26,560 --> 00:39:29,720 Speaker 1: avoided the whole time. Basically, her whole reign was about 646 00:39:29,719 --> 00:39:34,600 Speaker 1: preventing this from happening, Um mark Antony decided that he 647 00:39:34,680 --> 00:39:38,640 Speaker 1: had he had um lost his place of honor in 648 00:39:38,680 --> 00:39:41,200 Speaker 1: the world, and that he should take his own life. 649 00:39:41,480 --> 00:39:45,120 Speaker 1: He also, according to legend, heard that Cleopatra had taken 650 00:39:45,120 --> 00:39:48,520 Speaker 1: her life, and so in response and because he had 651 00:39:48,560 --> 00:39:52,640 Speaker 1: lost his place of honor, he Um killed himself basically 652 00:39:52,680 --> 00:39:56,720 Speaker 1: through Harri Curry, which is like stabbing yourself with your sword, 653 00:39:56,760 --> 00:39:59,800 Speaker 1: disemboweling yourself. That's what he did with his own, so 654 00:40:00,000 --> 00:40:05,640 Speaker 1: word and um and and I was at death's door. 655 00:40:05,760 --> 00:40:07,759 Speaker 1: I guess when he heard. Oh wait, wait, that was 656 00:40:07,760 --> 00:40:11,680 Speaker 1: just a rumor. Cleopatra didn't actually kill herself. Yeah, And supposedly, 657 00:40:11,680 --> 00:40:16,440 Speaker 1: if you believe the legend, Octavian did allow him to 658 00:40:16,600 --> 00:40:19,720 Speaker 1: be brought to Cleopatra. And he died in her arms, 659 00:40:20,320 --> 00:40:24,160 Speaker 1: and she tore it her clothes and and smeared his 660 00:40:24,239 --> 00:40:28,360 Speaker 1: blood all over her face and shrieked out, he is 661 00:40:28,400 --> 00:40:32,040 Speaker 1: my master and husband and commander. Um. And that's if 662 00:40:32,080 --> 00:40:35,200 Speaker 1: you believe the legend. Of course, it sounds a little 663 00:40:35,200 --> 00:40:38,279 Speaker 1: trumped up to me, but you never know. Um. So 664 00:40:38,400 --> 00:40:42,840 Speaker 1: Octaviana at this point is in a pretty good position. Um. 665 00:40:42,960 --> 00:40:45,279 Speaker 1: He says he's got it right where he wants her, 666 00:40:45,719 --> 00:40:48,080 Speaker 1: and he knows it, and she knows it. And he said, listen, 667 00:40:48,120 --> 00:40:51,839 Speaker 1: I want you, um to come back to Rome, and 668 00:40:52,040 --> 00:40:54,279 Speaker 1: you're gonna be a captive and I'm gonna kind of 669 00:40:54,280 --> 00:40:57,360 Speaker 1: parade you through the streets as a symbol of our victory. 670 00:40:58,160 --> 00:41:00,440 Speaker 1: And she knew that this would be like just that, 671 00:41:00,600 --> 00:41:04,720 Speaker 1: the great humiliation of her life, and career. So she said, 672 00:41:04,840 --> 00:41:07,919 Speaker 1: all right, I need a little time to prepare myself. Um, 673 00:41:07,920 --> 00:41:09,759 Speaker 1: which you know the writings on the wall here that 674 00:41:09,840 --> 00:41:12,280 Speaker 1: she is going to die a noble death by taking 675 00:41:12,280 --> 00:41:15,440 Speaker 1: her own life. But she didn't do it right away. Uh. 676 00:41:15,480 --> 00:41:18,640 Speaker 1: It took about a week, um, because she was still 677 00:41:18,640 --> 00:41:22,560 Speaker 1: trying to still trying to save things up until the 678 00:41:22,680 --> 00:41:27,120 Speaker 1: very end, which is pretty remarkable. So on August twelve, 679 00:41:27,239 --> 00:41:31,680 Speaker 1: thirty b c. Uh, Anthony is buried. Um, Cleopatra meets 680 00:41:31,680 --> 00:41:35,400 Speaker 1: with Octavian. She closes herself into chamber with two of 681 00:41:35,400 --> 00:41:39,279 Speaker 1: her servants and UM, we're not exactly sure how she 682 00:41:39,360 --> 00:41:41,719 Speaker 1: got It depends on the legend that you that you 683 00:41:41,800 --> 00:41:45,680 Speaker 1: choose to believe, but she got poison and committed suicide 684 00:41:45,680 --> 00:41:48,560 Speaker 1: along with her servants. Uh. And apparently, and this is 685 00:41:48,560 --> 00:41:53,080 Speaker 1: from Plutarch's records, Um, one of the Roman officers burst 686 00:41:53,120 --> 00:41:55,919 Speaker 1: in as this was happening and yelled to fine deed 687 00:41:56,000 --> 00:41:59,520 Speaker 1: this And one of the one of the servants was 688 00:41:59,719 --> 00:42:02,799 Speaker 1: bay sically like, yeah, it is a fine thing because 689 00:42:02,840 --> 00:42:06,480 Speaker 1: she went out on her own terms. Jerk. Yeah, basically 690 00:42:06,640 --> 00:42:09,000 Speaker 1: that's a I guess paraphrasing. Sure, she said nothing could 691 00:42:09,000 --> 00:42:12,399 Speaker 1: be finder for this lady the descendant of so many kings, right, 692 00:42:12,440 --> 00:42:16,000 Speaker 1: that was Charmian and the other servant was Iris I 693 00:42:16,200 --> 00:42:18,920 Speaker 1: R A S. And like you said, like, they're not 694 00:42:19,040 --> 00:42:22,560 Speaker 1: quite sure how she got that poison, And so a 695 00:42:22,680 --> 00:42:26,800 Speaker 1: legend grew up that she had used an ass but cobra, 696 00:42:27,440 --> 00:42:29,400 Speaker 1: and it allowed it to bite her so that she 697 00:42:29,440 --> 00:42:31,719 Speaker 1: could die. But if if you kind of put two 698 00:42:31,719 --> 00:42:35,400 Speaker 1: and two together, supposedly, um, she sent a note to 699 00:42:36,160 --> 00:42:41,080 Speaker 1: Octavian to stall for time, but was he figured out 700 00:42:41,120 --> 00:42:43,200 Speaker 1: what she was doing fast enough that there was maybe 701 00:42:43,200 --> 00:42:46,400 Speaker 1: a course of minutes that transpired between uh that she 702 00:42:46,400 --> 00:42:48,640 Speaker 1: would have had to have taken this poison and died. 703 00:42:49,160 --> 00:42:51,080 Speaker 1: And it takes like an hour or something like that 704 00:42:51,160 --> 00:42:53,520 Speaker 1: to die from a cobra bite. So people say, probably 705 00:42:53,520 --> 00:42:56,440 Speaker 1: not cobra. But where would she have gotten that poison 706 00:42:56,480 --> 00:42:59,600 Speaker 1: since she was under such close guard. And one theory 707 00:42:59,640 --> 00:43:04,440 Speaker 1: that's emerged is do you remember when Caesar paraded our 708 00:43:04,520 --> 00:43:08,560 Speaker 1: sinewy through the streets and ended up generating sympathy for 709 00:43:08,640 --> 00:43:15,840 Speaker 1: her unintentionally? Supposedly Octavian remembered that, and, according to this theory, 710 00:43:16,160 --> 00:43:18,560 Speaker 1: and didn't want to do the same thing by parading 711 00:43:18,600 --> 00:43:21,360 Speaker 1: Cleopatra through the streets, so he never had any intention 712 00:43:21,400 --> 00:43:23,680 Speaker 1: of doing that and instead went to her and said, look, 713 00:43:24,680 --> 00:43:26,720 Speaker 1: I can kill you, you can take your own life. 714 00:43:27,080 --> 00:43:28,960 Speaker 1: You seem like the kind of lady who'd want to 715 00:43:28,960 --> 00:43:31,840 Speaker 1: take her own life. If you do this, will celebrate it, 716 00:43:31,960 --> 00:43:35,959 Speaker 1: that kind of thing. And um, and that's that's why 717 00:43:36,080 --> 00:43:38,600 Speaker 1: she or how she got the poison, because she was 718 00:43:38,680 --> 00:43:41,759 Speaker 1: kind of allowed to be given that option. That's just 719 00:43:41,840 --> 00:43:45,319 Speaker 1: a theory, um, But no one knows. All we know 720 00:43:45,440 --> 00:43:48,799 Speaker 1: is that Cleopatra almost certainly did take her own life, 721 00:43:49,160 --> 00:43:52,439 Speaker 1: most likely through poison as some sort that's right. So 722 00:43:52,560 --> 00:43:56,719 Speaker 1: she was buried next to Mark Anthony um, which was 723 00:43:56,760 --> 00:44:00,960 Speaker 1: according to her wishes of course. And um, you know, 724 00:44:02,120 --> 00:44:05,799 Speaker 1: because we don't have writings from Egyptians, it's mainly, like 725 00:44:05,840 --> 00:44:10,960 Speaker 1: we said, from the Roman perspective, she's viewed through different lenses. Um. 726 00:44:11,000 --> 00:44:14,040 Speaker 1: Some people have portrayed her, like we said earlier, as 727 00:44:14,080 --> 00:44:18,360 Speaker 1: super capable and dynamic and super smart, and other people 728 00:44:18,480 --> 00:44:21,560 Speaker 1: have portrayed her as just like leaning on her whiles 729 00:44:21,600 --> 00:44:26,520 Speaker 1: as a woman and being more cunning than strategic. Um. 730 00:44:26,560 --> 00:44:29,000 Speaker 1: I think you know, somewhere in the middle is probably 731 00:44:29,000 --> 00:44:30,480 Speaker 1: the truth. She probably did what she had to do 732 00:44:30,520 --> 00:44:33,320 Speaker 1: in certain occasions, but that certainly doesn't mean she also 733 00:44:33,400 --> 00:44:35,759 Speaker 1: wasn't like a brilliant leader on her own terms, right, 734 00:44:35,760 --> 00:44:38,799 Speaker 1: And this article actually points out it's pretty ironic that 735 00:44:38,840 --> 00:44:43,120 Speaker 1: were it not for the propagandists who were working for Octavian, 736 00:44:44,160 --> 00:44:48,319 Speaker 1: who were trying to basically disassemble any good memory of 737 00:44:48,360 --> 00:44:50,760 Speaker 1: her and paint her as a terrible person who almost 738 00:44:50,840 --> 00:44:53,920 Speaker 1: brought down Rome, were it not for Octavian to save 739 00:44:54,160 --> 00:44:58,400 Speaker 1: Rome itself, Um, she would have. Were it not for 740 00:44:58,440 --> 00:45:01,400 Speaker 1: those biographers, she may have been lost to history. Like 741 00:45:01,440 --> 00:45:04,279 Speaker 1: there's a lot of pharaoh's in Egypt's history that we 742 00:45:04,440 --> 00:45:07,040 Speaker 1: just don't know anything about, and she could have ended 743 00:45:07,120 --> 00:45:08,680 Speaker 1: up being one of them. Even though she was a 744 00:45:08,719 --> 00:45:12,080 Speaker 1: successful pharaoh for Egypt. We we may never have known 745 00:45:12,120 --> 00:45:15,040 Speaker 1: about her were it not for these guys like Luken 746 00:45:15,200 --> 00:45:19,360 Speaker 1: and um Plutarch who wrote about her and commemorated or 747 00:45:19,480 --> 00:45:22,799 Speaker 1: memorialized her. Yeah, and I think, I mean, I don't 748 00:45:22,800 --> 00:45:26,920 Speaker 1: think there's any disputing the fact that she was um 749 00:45:26,960 --> 00:45:29,799 Speaker 1: at the very least one of the more charming uh 750 00:45:29,840 --> 00:45:34,120 Speaker 1: and intelligent uh rulers of the time. She just had 751 00:45:34,200 --> 00:45:36,680 Speaker 1: sort of a way about her from all the readings 752 00:45:36,680 --> 00:45:39,440 Speaker 1: where like you couldn't help but be captivated by her 753 00:45:39,600 --> 00:45:43,720 Speaker 1: when you're in her presence. Her speaking voice has always 754 00:45:43,760 --> 00:45:46,719 Speaker 1: been written about, UM, and I think she just she 755 00:45:46,800 --> 00:45:52,000 Speaker 1: had that that just certain indefinable quality. Um. There's been 756 00:45:52,040 --> 00:45:53,840 Speaker 1: a lot of debate on her looks over the years, 757 00:45:53,880 --> 00:45:56,479 Speaker 1: but to me, that's I don't even know why people 758 00:45:56,480 --> 00:45:59,160 Speaker 1: still talk about that stuff. It's funny because people do 759 00:45:59,480 --> 00:46:02,440 Speaker 1: in both an end, women do like whenever somebody like 760 00:46:02,600 --> 00:46:05,000 Speaker 1: shows a picture of what she probably looked like in 761 00:46:05,080 --> 00:46:07,959 Speaker 1: real life based on like like a coin came out 762 00:46:08,120 --> 00:46:10,600 Speaker 1: in or came to light in two thousand and seven, 763 00:46:11,000 --> 00:46:14,120 Speaker 1: and people are like, well, she's not pretty. How how 764 00:46:14,120 --> 00:46:17,160 Speaker 1: could she possibly have have you know, achieved all this 765 00:46:17,280 --> 00:46:20,520 Speaker 1: if she wasn't pretty. Uh, there's just a bunch wrong 766 00:46:20,600 --> 00:46:23,799 Speaker 1: with that. But this, this one historian um put it 767 00:46:23,840 --> 00:46:26,760 Speaker 1: really really well. The impact she made on the ancient 768 00:46:26,800 --> 00:46:29,680 Speaker 1: world has overlooked because the world has this obsession when 769 00:46:29,719 --> 00:46:32,239 Speaker 1: it comes to women. People can only judge them on 770 00:46:32,280 --> 00:46:35,879 Speaker 1: whether they were beautiful. Nobody ever said Mark Antony, how 771 00:46:35,960 --> 00:46:39,960 Speaker 1: handsome was he? And that's really just just really drives 772 00:46:40,000 --> 00:46:43,720 Speaker 1: the point home really well. I think that that people 773 00:46:43,760 --> 00:46:46,440 Speaker 1: are obsessed with this idea of that she was beautiful, 774 00:46:46,440 --> 00:46:49,719 Speaker 1: and it really does undermine like whatever she was capable of. 775 00:46:50,040 --> 00:46:52,960 Speaker 1: And when people think like that, you're just carrying on 776 00:46:53,000 --> 00:46:55,799 Speaker 1: a two thousand year old tradition that began in Rome 777 00:46:55,880 --> 00:46:58,640 Speaker 1: around the time of Octavian. I'm not going to talk 778 00:46:58,640 --> 00:47:05,080 Speaker 1: about it. So, um, you you asked about Octavian becoming Augustus, right, Uh, No, 779 00:47:05,200 --> 00:47:08,320 Speaker 1: I didn't ask. I was just yes, you were setting 780 00:47:08,360 --> 00:47:10,319 Speaker 1: me up for it. That story. I want to tell 781 00:47:10,360 --> 00:47:15,600 Speaker 1: this story. You don't mind, I don't so. Uh. Cleopatra 782 00:47:15,840 --> 00:47:21,719 Speaker 1: killed herself on August twelve of thirty BC, and Octavian 783 00:47:21,880 --> 00:47:27,360 Speaker 1: decided to commemorate this extraordinary triumph over Cleopatra in Egypt 784 00:47:27,360 --> 00:47:30,640 Speaker 1: and over mark Antony and his ascension to full ruler 785 00:47:30,800 --> 00:47:35,160 Speaker 1: of Rome by taking the name Augustus. So when we're 786 00:47:35,239 --> 00:47:38,080 Speaker 1: marking the month of August, the eighth month of the year, 787 00:47:38,480 --> 00:47:44,000 Speaker 1: we're actually commemorating the defeat and the death of Cleopatra. Amazing, 788 00:47:44,480 --> 00:47:47,319 Speaker 1: it is amazing. You knew that all along. Huh. All 789 00:47:47,360 --> 00:47:48,759 Speaker 1: I know is that we have four live shows in 790 00:47:48,800 --> 00:47:52,520 Speaker 1: August to commemorate this event. Where would you get tickets 791 00:47:52,560 --> 00:47:55,160 Speaker 1: if you were gonna go Chuck s y sk Live 792 00:47:55,480 --> 00:47:58,359 Speaker 1: if you lived in one particular city that you had 793 00:47:58,400 --> 00:48:01,040 Speaker 1: to pick to go get tickets as many people as possible, 794 00:48:01,080 --> 00:48:04,880 Speaker 1: what would that city be? Poor Chicago and Portland, Maine. Okay, great, 795 00:48:05,400 --> 00:48:08,480 Speaker 1: well you heard Chuck. Everybody do it for Cleopatra. She 796 00:48:08,600 --> 00:48:11,000 Speaker 1: wills it. That's right. If you want to know more 797 00:48:11,040 --> 00:48:14,160 Speaker 1: about Cleopatra, just go start reading up. There's apparently a 798 00:48:14,200 --> 00:48:17,760 Speaker 1: whole slate of really good biographies that have come out recently, 799 00:48:17,800 --> 00:48:20,239 Speaker 1: so you've got plenty of stuff to work with. Uh. 800 00:48:20,239 --> 00:48:25,440 Speaker 1: And since I said that, it's time for a listener mail, Hey, guys, 801 00:48:25,480 --> 00:48:26,879 Speaker 1: want to reach out and let you know that my 802 00:48:27,360 --> 00:48:31,360 Speaker 1: stepson loves listening to your show. UM. We share custody 803 00:48:31,400 --> 00:48:33,719 Speaker 1: with my husband's ex wife. And not to go into 804 00:48:33,719 --> 00:48:37,080 Speaker 1: those complicated details, but to be able to spend time, UM, 805 00:48:37,239 --> 00:48:39,840 Speaker 1: spend as much time as I possibly can with him, 806 00:48:40,000 --> 00:48:41,880 Speaker 1: drive him to school and pick him up from school. 807 00:48:42,080 --> 00:48:45,440 Speaker 1: You can take anywhere from thirty to sixty minutes. UH. 808 00:48:45,600 --> 00:48:47,840 Speaker 1: Zack is a d h D and on an I 809 00:48:48,000 --> 00:48:50,680 Speaker 1: E P. And the typical school environment can be challenging 810 00:48:50,680 --> 00:48:53,480 Speaker 1: for him. He's worked really hard this year building skills 811 00:48:53,880 --> 00:48:55,440 Speaker 1: and has come quite a long way. In the fourth 812 00:48:55,440 --> 00:48:59,399 Speaker 1: grade yeah, man, But when we find an alternative way 813 00:48:59,440 --> 00:49:01,960 Speaker 1: to foster at this love of learning that he enjoys, 814 00:49:02,000 --> 00:49:04,920 Speaker 1: we really embrace it. Uh. He really loves listening to 815 00:49:04,920 --> 00:49:07,160 Speaker 1: stuff you should know during the long car rides. Way 816 00:49:07,200 --> 00:49:09,560 Speaker 1: to go Zack again. He is a super smart kiddo 817 00:49:09,680 --> 00:49:12,319 Speaker 1: and is especially engaged in the topics you guys cover. 818 00:49:13,160 --> 00:49:16,839 Speaker 1: His latest favorite was uh, Tinnish cases of really bad luck. 819 00:49:17,640 --> 00:49:19,800 Speaker 1: So his dad and I strive to model our value 820 00:49:19,800 --> 00:49:21,719 Speaker 1: is one of the great One of great importance is 821 00:49:21,800 --> 00:49:25,880 Speaker 1: that time together and experience his trump material goods. With 822 00:49:25,920 --> 00:49:29,160 Speaker 1: his tenure milestone birthday approaching, I've been thinking about this 823 00:49:29,239 --> 00:49:31,760 Speaker 1: quite a bit and I thought maybe, just maybe Josh 824 00:49:31,760 --> 00:49:34,120 Speaker 1: and Chuck could give him a shout out. It would 825 00:49:34,160 --> 00:49:36,400 Speaker 1: be the highlight of his decade and a killer birthday 826 00:49:36,440 --> 00:49:39,360 Speaker 1: present from a killer step mom to her beloved kiddo. 827 00:49:39,960 --> 00:49:45,200 Speaker 1: That is from Mandy, so Zach buddy, the happiest, happiest 828 00:49:45,239 --> 00:49:48,080 Speaker 1: of birthdays to you as you turned ten. That is 829 00:49:48,120 --> 00:49:50,960 Speaker 1: a very big deal because you are a double digit 830 00:49:51,040 --> 00:49:53,640 Speaker 1: human being now and it sounds like you are doing 831 00:49:53,680 --> 00:49:58,799 Speaker 1: great and sailing towards your teenage years with with confidence 832 00:49:58,840 --> 00:50:04,319 Speaker 1: and intelligence. Congratulations on your big one. Oh Zach's Yes 833 00:50:04,360 --> 00:50:08,719 Speaker 1: it is happy birthday. Um. Wow, that was a nice one, Chuck, 834 00:50:08,760 --> 00:50:12,080 Speaker 1: well done. Thanks. If you want to get in touch 835 00:50:12,120 --> 00:50:14,400 Speaker 1: with us like Mandy did, that's pretty rare that we 836 00:50:14,480 --> 00:50:16,200 Speaker 1: do that kind of thing, But you never know. I 837 00:50:16,200 --> 00:50:20,160 Speaker 1: guess you could take a shot, right yes, okay? Um, 838 00:50:20,280 --> 00:50:22,839 Speaker 1: you can go on to stuff you Should Know dot 839 00:50:22,840 --> 00:50:26,440 Speaker 1: com and check out our social links. Uh, that's probably 840 00:50:26,440 --> 00:50:28,279 Speaker 1: not going to help much, so if you really want 841 00:50:28,320 --> 00:50:30,920 Speaker 1: to get something like this done, you should write us 842 00:50:30,920 --> 00:50:33,680 Speaker 1: an email. You're can wrap it up, spank it on 843 00:50:33,719 --> 00:50:37,200 Speaker 1: the bottom, and send it off to stuff Podcasts at 844 00:50:37,200 --> 00:50:42,560 Speaker 1: iHeart radio dot com. Stuff you Should Know is a 845 00:50:42,560 --> 00:50:45,640 Speaker 1: production of iHeart Radio's How Stuff Works. For more podcasts 846 00:50:45,680 --> 00:50:48,560 Speaker 1: for my heart Radio, visit the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, 847 00:50:48,640 --> 00:50:50,320 Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.