1 00:00:02,320 --> 00:00:05,680 Speaker 1: Get in touch with technology with tech Stuff from houseff 2 00:00:05,680 --> 00:00:14,720 Speaker 1: works dot com. Hello again, everyone, and welcome to tech Stuff. 3 00:00:14,720 --> 00:00:16,439 Speaker 1: My name is Chris Pollette and I'm an editor at 4 00:00:16,440 --> 00:00:19,240 Speaker 1: how stuff Works dot com. Sitting across from me as usual, 5 00:00:20,000 --> 00:00:24,480 Speaker 1: rated W for weird as senior writer Jonathan Strickland. He there, 6 00:00:24,840 --> 00:00:28,600 Speaker 1: and this episode is rated T for team. Uh. We're 7 00:00:28,640 --> 00:00:33,760 Speaker 1: doing an episode about the e s RB. Okay, so 8 00:00:34,080 --> 00:00:36,800 Speaker 1: are you okay? I am okay. It's the Entertainment Software 9 00:00:36,920 --> 00:00:40,080 Speaker 1: Rating Board and this this is actually a request that 10 00:00:40,159 --> 00:00:41,839 Speaker 1: was sent to us by a couple of different listeners 11 00:00:41,840 --> 00:00:44,880 Speaker 1: who wanted to know more about this system. It's history, 12 00:00:45,040 --> 00:00:47,879 Speaker 1: why do we have it, does it work? What's it 13 00:00:47,880 --> 00:00:52,639 Speaker 1: all about? So? In general, the E s r B, sorry, Alfie, 14 00:00:52,760 --> 00:00:54,960 Speaker 1: the E s r V. What's it all about? Alfie. 15 00:00:55,240 --> 00:00:57,840 Speaker 1: The E s r V is a it's a rating 16 00:00:57,920 --> 00:01:01,160 Speaker 1: system for video games, and it's it's a rating system 17 00:01:01,200 --> 00:01:04,280 Speaker 1: not for the quality of the game, but what is 18 00:01:04,520 --> 00:01:07,840 Speaker 1: the content, how the content of the game shapes the game, 19 00:01:07,880 --> 00:01:13,120 Speaker 1: and whether or not that content is um uh suitable 20 00:01:13,280 --> 00:01:17,600 Speaker 1: for different age groups. So just running through the different 21 00:01:17,680 --> 00:01:21,720 Speaker 1: ratings really quickly. Uh. The e s RB has ratings 22 00:01:21,720 --> 00:01:25,280 Speaker 1: for EC which is early childhood. That's games that are 23 00:01:25,280 --> 00:01:28,800 Speaker 1: suitable for ages three and older. Younger than three, we 24 00:01:28,920 --> 00:01:32,000 Speaker 1: just typically say these are people who probably can't process 25 00:01:32,080 --> 00:01:33,800 Speaker 1: what the heck is going on anyway, so it really 26 00:01:33,840 --> 00:01:36,920 Speaker 1: doesn't matter what it is, but not really appropriate in 27 00:01:36,920 --> 00:01:40,399 Speaker 1: any case, Get that two year old off my xbox. 28 00:01:41,240 --> 00:01:46,120 Speaker 1: Uh E is for everyone, which is actually not everyone. 29 00:01:46,200 --> 00:01:49,080 Speaker 1: It's really content that's suitable for ages six and older. 30 00:01:49,400 --> 00:01:53,200 Speaker 1: Keeping in mind that content that's ec early childhood probably 31 00:01:53,240 --> 00:01:58,200 Speaker 1: has gameplay elements that most people all over the age 32 00:01:58,200 --> 00:02:02,200 Speaker 1: of six wouldn't be terribly interested in. Um I say 33 00:02:02,200 --> 00:02:04,120 Speaker 1: most because there are exceptions. I mean, I'm not going 34 00:02:04,160 --> 00:02:06,280 Speaker 1: to pass judgment on Chris if he wants to play 35 00:02:06,360 --> 00:02:10,320 Speaker 1: lots of e C games. There's eight ten ten plus, 36 00:02:10,400 --> 00:02:15,679 Speaker 1: which is everyone ten and older, so against slightly more 37 00:02:16,120 --> 00:02:21,360 Speaker 1: restrictive than just the E T for teen, uh M 38 00:02:21,400 --> 00:02:25,880 Speaker 1: for mature, meaning people who are seventeen or older uh 39 00:02:25,880 --> 00:02:32,280 Speaker 1: and AO AO which is adults only, which has content 40 00:02:32,360 --> 00:02:35,040 Speaker 1: in it that should only be played by people of 41 00:02:35,200 --> 00:02:38,280 Speaker 1: eighteen years of age or older according to the rating, 42 00:02:38,320 --> 00:02:41,639 Speaker 1: according to the rating AO and each of these each 43 00:02:41,680 --> 00:02:45,440 Speaker 1: of these ratings have their own criteria as to you know, 44 00:02:45,760 --> 00:02:49,120 Speaker 1: what what constitutes a T rate rating as opposed to 45 00:02:49,120 --> 00:02:52,640 Speaker 1: an M rating, And in general, what we're talking about 46 00:02:52,720 --> 00:02:56,560 Speaker 1: here are types of content that might include things like 47 00:02:56,639 --> 00:03:01,079 Speaker 1: gambling that that will up a uh E s R 48 00:03:01,160 --> 00:03:03,160 Speaker 1: B rating on a game to a higher one to 49 00:03:03,320 --> 00:03:09,440 Speaker 1: like M or whatever. H violence, blood, gore, sexual content, 50 00:03:09,680 --> 00:03:12,799 Speaker 1: strong language, drug use, this kind of stuff. Store of 51 00:03:12,840 --> 00:03:15,040 Speaker 1: the same things that you would see with the Motion 52 00:03:15,080 --> 00:03:17,920 Speaker 1: Picture Association of America with their rating system for movies. 53 00:03:18,200 --> 00:03:20,600 Speaker 1: In fact, there are a lot of parallels. And you 54 00:03:20,720 --> 00:03:24,360 Speaker 1: might say, all right, so we have this rating system, Uh, 55 00:03:24,520 --> 00:03:28,160 Speaker 1: how did that get started? And really to to understand that, 56 00:03:28,200 --> 00:03:31,440 Speaker 1: you have to go back into the history of video games. 57 00:03:32,120 --> 00:03:33,800 Speaker 1: I would argue in a way that you'd have to 58 00:03:33,800 --> 00:03:37,600 Speaker 1: go back into the history of entertainment content because I 59 00:03:37,680 --> 00:03:43,680 Speaker 1: think the E s RB is, well, it's a consortium 60 00:03:43,720 --> 00:03:46,920 Speaker 1: really or and and the thing is, I think they 61 00:03:47,280 --> 00:03:50,720 Speaker 1: we're paying attention to what had happened to people in 62 00:03:51,080 --> 00:03:57,600 Speaker 1: other industries as well. Right it just before the before 63 00:03:57,640 --> 00:04:00,280 Speaker 1: the early nineties. It was kind of a moot point 64 00:04:00,680 --> 00:04:06,040 Speaker 1: only because video games were fairly primitive as far as 65 00:04:06,080 --> 00:04:10,280 Speaker 1: graphics are concerned, so it was not easy to graphically 66 00:04:10,320 --> 00:04:14,720 Speaker 1: represent something that would be objectionable. Uh, not that people 67 00:04:14,760 --> 00:04:18,360 Speaker 1: didn't try, and not that there aren't exceptions, because there are. 68 00:04:18,440 --> 00:04:20,120 Speaker 1: I'm thinking of one right off the top of my 69 00:04:20,160 --> 00:04:24,800 Speaker 1: head from the Atari Twenty Days. But you could not 70 00:04:25,240 --> 00:04:31,760 Speaker 1: realistically represent things like uh, graphic violence or sexual content 71 00:04:32,560 --> 00:04:36,159 Speaker 1: before the sixteen bit era. It was just really the 72 00:04:36,160 --> 00:04:39,480 Speaker 1: consideration was that the eight bit era and earlier everything 73 00:04:39,520 --> 00:04:43,120 Speaker 1: was so blocky and so pixelated that it didn't really 74 00:04:43,600 --> 00:04:47,600 Speaker 1: resemble reality. It was more like seeing something in a cartoon. 75 00:04:47,760 --> 00:04:51,120 Speaker 1: So uh, you know, you might watch a cartoon as 76 00:04:51,120 --> 00:04:54,840 Speaker 1: a kid of Wildly Coyote and the roadrunner, and the 77 00:04:54,880 --> 00:04:57,240 Speaker 1: road runner does something and wild E Coyote suffers a 78 00:04:57,320 --> 00:05:00,000 Speaker 1: terrible injury, and there are some people who would argue 79 00:05:00,120 --> 00:05:02,960 Speaker 1: that that could be harmful to kids. Uh, seeing how 80 00:05:03,000 --> 00:05:08,080 Speaker 1: it shaped me and who I am, Well that's anecdotal anyway. 81 00:05:08,320 --> 00:05:10,279 Speaker 1: And Chris, uh, you know, don't worry. I'm not going 82 00:05:10,320 --> 00:05:13,160 Speaker 1: to do anything with this enormous mallet behind me. Um 83 00:05:13,200 --> 00:05:15,719 Speaker 1: he he he. Well, yes, I and you know that 84 00:05:15,800 --> 00:05:18,479 Speaker 1: there were some exceptions. I do bear a striking resemblance 85 00:05:18,520 --> 00:05:23,400 Speaker 1: to my character from Adventure on the Right, just a block, 86 00:05:23,440 --> 00:05:25,680 Speaker 1: because I am a block, just a just a block, 87 00:05:25,839 --> 00:05:30,000 Speaker 1: just one pixel block, but a giant pixel. Uh. Once 88 00:05:30,040 --> 00:05:32,960 Speaker 1: we got into the sixteen bit era, we started to 89 00:05:33,000 --> 00:05:37,680 Speaker 1: have more realistic, more fluid graphics, and there was you know, 90 00:05:37,800 --> 00:05:42,040 Speaker 1: the the population that was playing video games was beginning 91 00:05:42,240 --> 00:05:44,880 Speaker 1: to grow older. You know, you were you had people 92 00:05:44,880 --> 00:05:48,600 Speaker 1: who had started playing video games as kids on systems 93 00:05:48,600 --> 00:05:52,000 Speaker 1: like the Atari or then into entertainment system or whatever, 94 00:05:52,600 --> 00:05:55,279 Speaker 1: and so they were continuing to play video games as 95 00:05:55,279 --> 00:05:59,479 Speaker 1: they got older, and their interests began to go into 96 00:05:59,520 --> 00:06:04,240 Speaker 1: more what we call mature subjects. So just like people 97 00:06:04,279 --> 00:06:06,240 Speaker 1: who watch movies, you know, they might want to go 98 00:06:06,279 --> 00:06:09,839 Speaker 1: see an R rated movie or something, uh, the same 99 00:06:09,880 --> 00:06:12,719 Speaker 1: sort of thing, and so the video game publishers began 100 00:06:12,760 --> 00:06:14,440 Speaker 1: to cater to that audience. I mean, you've got to 101 00:06:14,440 --> 00:06:17,800 Speaker 1: remember also, the people who were developing video games, they 102 00:06:17,839 --> 00:06:20,559 Speaker 1: were video game players, you know, when they were kids. 103 00:06:20,560 --> 00:06:22,400 Speaker 1: And we're talking about the early nineties here. The people 104 00:06:22,440 --> 00:06:24,960 Speaker 1: who played video games in the very early eighties were 105 00:06:24,960 --> 00:06:27,280 Speaker 1: now the people who were making video games in the nineties. 106 00:06:27,760 --> 00:06:31,160 Speaker 1: Their tastes had matured, and so you started to see 107 00:06:31,279 --> 00:06:35,719 Speaker 1: video games that were depicting violence in a more realistic 108 00:06:35,960 --> 00:06:40,279 Speaker 1: and graphic way than ever before. And that began to 109 00:06:40,520 --> 00:06:45,480 Speaker 1: raise some concerns in the minds of certain people. UH. 110 00:06:45,600 --> 00:06:48,840 Speaker 1: Some of those people held quite a bit of influence, 111 00:06:49,320 --> 00:06:54,960 Speaker 1: people like UH the Senator Joe Lieberman UH and Senator 112 00:06:55,000 --> 00:07:00,320 Speaker 1: Herb Herb Cole. They both were concerned and they had 113 00:07:00,400 --> 00:07:04,120 Speaker 1: hearings in the United States Senate about video game violence 114 00:07:04,680 --> 00:07:07,920 Speaker 1: and how that affected children and whether or not in fact, 115 00:07:08,400 --> 00:07:13,520 Speaker 1: video games were contributing to the corruption of society. This 116 00:07:13,640 --> 00:07:16,680 Speaker 1: is not a new thing at all. We have had 117 00:07:16,760 --> 00:07:21,680 Speaker 1: politicians worry about various forms of entertainment corrupting the youth 118 00:07:21,800 --> 00:07:25,200 Speaker 1: and ruining everything. And that's why apple pie doesn't taste 119 00:07:25,200 --> 00:07:27,880 Speaker 1: as sweet. It's why you can't walk down the street 120 00:07:27,880 --> 00:07:30,040 Speaker 1: at night. It's why you have to lock your doors 121 00:07:30,080 --> 00:07:32,840 Speaker 1: when you leave in the evening. It's it's why you 122 00:07:32,840 --> 00:07:35,760 Speaker 1: you never have the paper because your neighbor always steals it. 123 00:07:35,760 --> 00:07:39,680 Speaker 1: It's it's it's the purpose. It's actually the reason why 124 00:07:39,760 --> 00:07:45,600 Speaker 1: everything is terrible. Now I'm exaggerating for effect. I didn't 125 00:07:45,640 --> 00:07:51,000 Speaker 1: know if you were you were, you know, but um, 126 00:07:51,040 --> 00:07:53,160 Speaker 1: but yeah, I mean. And then it's not just politicians, 127 00:07:53,200 --> 00:07:57,760 Speaker 1: of course, their parents associations. There are just concerned citizens 128 00:07:57,840 --> 00:08:03,320 Speaker 1: who draw conclusions that a form of entertainment, and the 129 00:08:03,600 --> 00:08:07,400 Speaker 1: its popularity among a certain group might in fact influence 130 00:08:07,440 --> 00:08:10,120 Speaker 1: that certain group to behave in a negative way or 131 00:08:10,160 --> 00:08:13,600 Speaker 1: to be desensitized against violence for example. Exactly. Yes, so 132 00:08:14,080 --> 00:08:16,280 Speaker 1: not necessarily they'll go out and hit somebody over the 133 00:08:16,280 --> 00:08:18,040 Speaker 1: head with a mallet, But if they see someone else 134 00:08:18,120 --> 00:08:20,480 Speaker 1: hit someone over the head with a mallet, they won't 135 00:08:20,480 --> 00:08:25,480 Speaker 1: necessarily spring to action. Um. Yeah, there there are concerns, 136 00:08:25,600 --> 00:08:29,720 Speaker 1: and there have been lots of different studies with very 137 00:08:29,720 --> 00:08:34,760 Speaker 1: different outcomes about whether or not violence in media affects 138 00:08:34,840 --> 00:08:38,880 Speaker 1: people in a real way beyond you know, beyond like 139 00:08:38,920 --> 00:08:42,400 Speaker 1: a visceral reaction. Does it have a lasting impact on 140 00:08:42,440 --> 00:08:46,400 Speaker 1: a person's personality. Those are questions that still have not 141 00:08:46,559 --> 00:08:49,080 Speaker 1: been fully answered because there are a lot of studies 142 00:08:49,120 --> 00:08:52,280 Speaker 1: out there with conflicting results. I know what I believe, 143 00:08:52,400 --> 00:08:55,520 Speaker 1: but but there are results the conflict with what I believe. 144 00:08:55,600 --> 00:08:58,880 Speaker 1: So well, as it turns out, it may be one 145 00:08:58,920 --> 00:09:01,360 Speaker 1: of those frustrating situation asition, where it may depend on 146 00:09:01,520 --> 00:09:04,440 Speaker 1: the individual person right well, in which case I would 147 00:09:04,480 --> 00:09:07,280 Speaker 1: argue that that's a person that's a person issue, not 148 00:09:07,360 --> 00:09:10,320 Speaker 1: a not an industry issue, right because it's it's one 149 00:09:10,320 --> 00:09:12,240 Speaker 1: of those, you can make the argument of, well, if 150 00:09:12,240 --> 00:09:14,640 Speaker 1: this one person who was affected by this one type 151 00:09:14,640 --> 00:09:18,280 Speaker 1: of media were to instead have fixated upon another type 152 00:09:18,280 --> 00:09:20,400 Speaker 1: of media, we'd be having the same discussion. But we've 153 00:09:20,440 --> 00:09:23,160 Speaker 1: been having it about music. And this discussion has been 154 00:09:23,200 --> 00:09:26,199 Speaker 1: about music. It has been about television, it has been 155 00:09:26,240 --> 00:09:30,600 Speaker 1: about film, it's been about novels, it's been about classical music. 156 00:09:30,640 --> 00:09:34,280 Speaker 1: I mean, any form of entertainment. You can imagine. It's 157 00:09:34,360 --> 00:09:37,320 Speaker 1: gone through this experience of people talking about, you know, 158 00:09:37,840 --> 00:09:41,079 Speaker 1: that novel, that new fangled way of putting words together 159 00:09:41,160 --> 00:09:46,120 Speaker 1: and creating fanciful fictional stories is ruining everything. Oh yeah, 160 00:09:46,160 --> 00:09:49,240 Speaker 1: that that Actually there were people who said that novels 161 00:09:49,240 --> 00:09:52,760 Speaker 1: we're bringing about the downfall of society. Well, hey, I 162 00:09:52,840 --> 00:09:56,000 Speaker 1: recently read that that Plato, I think it was, had 163 00:09:56,640 --> 00:10:02,640 Speaker 1: rebelled against the written words. He said, no, because writing 164 00:10:02,679 --> 00:10:05,560 Speaker 1: things down means that you are sapping your own ability 165 00:10:05,640 --> 00:10:08,360 Speaker 1: to think. That was the idea. It's it's the same 166 00:10:08,440 --> 00:10:11,560 Speaker 1: argument about Google making us stupid, because everything that we 167 00:10:11,600 --> 00:10:14,320 Speaker 1: need to know is on the web now, so we 168 00:10:14,360 --> 00:10:18,480 Speaker 1: don't need to remember it in our our meat space heads. Um. 169 00:10:18,520 --> 00:10:21,280 Speaker 1: So yeah, I mean, anyway, like we the point of 170 00:10:21,280 --> 00:10:23,320 Speaker 1: that whole thing is just to say video games are 171 00:10:23,360 --> 00:10:27,720 Speaker 1: not unique in this situation. This has gone through multiple venues, 172 00:10:27,840 --> 00:10:30,440 Speaker 1: multiple forms of media. But in this case, you had 173 00:10:31,240 --> 00:10:34,760 Speaker 1: a lot of pressure coming from the United States government 174 00:10:35,280 --> 00:10:38,760 Speaker 1: for something to be done in the video game industry. 175 00:10:39,440 --> 00:10:42,960 Speaker 1: Within the industry itself or the ultimatum was, if you 176 00:10:42,960 --> 00:10:45,200 Speaker 1: guys don't get together and figure out a way of 177 00:10:45,240 --> 00:10:48,480 Speaker 1: taking care of this, then we're gonna do it. We 178 00:10:48,640 --> 00:10:51,760 Speaker 1: being the United States government, and the industry was like, 179 00:10:51,920 --> 00:10:53,800 Speaker 1: did not want that to happen. They did not want 180 00:10:53,800 --> 00:10:57,320 Speaker 1: to have some sort of federal regulation in place over 181 00:10:57,360 --> 00:11:00,079 Speaker 1: the video game industry, and so it was impaired of 182 00:11:00,280 --> 00:11:04,200 Speaker 1: to come up with some sort of industry based ratings 183 00:11:04,280 --> 00:11:08,199 Speaker 1: system that could be demonstrably proven to be as objective 184 00:11:08,240 --> 00:11:11,400 Speaker 1: as possible, so it's not you know, it's not pulling 185 00:11:11,400 --> 00:11:14,280 Speaker 1: the wool over anyone's eyes or anything. Uh. And to 186 00:11:14,600 --> 00:11:19,440 Speaker 1: have some sort of enforceable policy, Yeah, those were all 187 00:11:19,480 --> 00:11:22,280 Speaker 1: important issues. Yeah. And and again they're they're taking their 188 00:11:22,360 --> 00:11:27,560 Speaker 1: their their cues from other similar or other entertainment industries 189 00:11:27,600 --> 00:11:31,160 Speaker 1: like the Motion Picture Association of America with with movie 190 00:11:31,240 --> 00:11:35,320 Speaker 1: ratings several decades prior, and of course the comics code 191 00:11:35,840 --> 00:11:39,840 Speaker 1: from comic books. After Frederick Wortham's uh um Seduction of 192 00:11:39,840 --> 00:11:45,040 Speaker 1: the Innocent Um Wow, But yeah, I mean these these 193 00:11:45,080 --> 00:11:47,960 Speaker 1: industries self regulated. They said, okay, okay, you know what, 194 00:11:48,120 --> 00:11:51,040 Speaker 1: we'll get together. We'll form a group and we will 195 00:11:51,080 --> 00:11:53,800 Speaker 1: come up with a rating system that helps people identify 196 00:11:54,240 --> 00:11:56,880 Speaker 1: what kind of content to you know, will be in 197 00:11:56,920 --> 00:11:59,640 Speaker 1: the package when you when you do this. And yeah, 198 00:11:59,640 --> 00:12:02,000 Speaker 1: I mean were there were certain games in particular, I 199 00:12:02,000 --> 00:12:04,520 Speaker 1: think some you know, like Mortal Kombats. That's the one. 200 00:12:04,600 --> 00:12:07,280 Speaker 1: The Mortal Kombat, I think, more than any other video game, 201 00:12:07,480 --> 00:12:12,599 Speaker 1: has been cited as the the genesis of this discussion. 202 00:12:12,640 --> 00:12:14,640 Speaker 1: I mean there are other ones to like Doom that 203 00:12:14,760 --> 00:12:19,760 Speaker 1: was another big one, um Night Trap for home games 204 00:12:20,400 --> 00:12:23,200 Speaker 1: Lethal Enforcers, which was, as I recall, a light gun 205 00:12:23,240 --> 00:12:25,720 Speaker 1: based game. So I mean, yeah, these these were games 206 00:12:25,720 --> 00:12:27,600 Speaker 1: that had a lot of violence in the of course, 207 00:12:27,640 --> 00:12:31,000 Speaker 1: by today's games standards. If you're talking about a truly 208 00:12:32,080 --> 00:12:35,080 Speaker 1: truly violent game in today's standards, they might seem quaint 209 00:12:35,480 --> 00:12:38,920 Speaker 1: in comparison. But but you know, that was what caused 210 00:12:38,960 --> 00:12:42,400 Speaker 1: these conversations to happen, and as a result, the games 211 00:12:42,400 --> 00:12:46,760 Speaker 1: industry are actually different companies within the industry all began 212 00:12:46,880 --> 00:12:50,080 Speaker 1: to suggest ratings systems, and in fact, there were quite 213 00:12:50,080 --> 00:12:53,360 Speaker 1: a few. In the earliest days, there were several competing ones. 214 00:12:53,360 --> 00:12:57,439 Speaker 1: Sega came out with one, the Video Game Rating Council, UH. 215 00:12:57,559 --> 00:13:01,120 Speaker 1: Video Game Rating Council was from Sega. There was the 216 00:13:01,240 --> 00:13:06,480 Speaker 1: three D O suggested one. UH. They they had the 217 00:13:06,600 --> 00:13:12,360 Speaker 1: Recreational Software Advisory Council, formed by Software Publishers Association, and 218 00:13:12,400 --> 00:13:16,360 Speaker 1: then there was one called the Interactive Digital Software Association, 219 00:13:16,480 --> 00:13:20,920 Speaker 1: which again was a UH. It's a collection, it's a 220 00:13:20,960 --> 00:13:25,800 Speaker 1: collection of software companies that were h advocating for a 221 00:13:25,800 --> 00:13:30,680 Speaker 1: particular rating system, and that I D s A. It's 222 00:13:30,720 --> 00:13:35,000 Speaker 1: eventually became the Entertainment Software Rating Board E s r 223 00:13:35,040 --> 00:13:38,280 Speaker 1: B as we now know it. That got presented to 224 00:13:38,400 --> 00:13:45,720 Speaker 1: Congress and in UH Congress approved the form the formation 225 00:13:45,800 --> 00:13:47,840 Speaker 1: of the s E s r B, and they, you know, 226 00:13:47,920 --> 00:13:52,679 Speaker 1: it was formally made the rating system for American video games. 227 00:13:53,440 --> 00:13:56,559 Speaker 1: So if you pick up a video game in America 228 00:13:56,720 --> 00:13:59,960 Speaker 1: video game case, there's a very good chance, in fact 229 00:14:00,160 --> 00:14:04,600 Speaker 1: overwhelmingly good chance, that you will see a little black 230 00:14:04,640 --> 00:14:07,360 Speaker 1: box with white white inside, and then there's a black 231 00:14:07,440 --> 00:14:10,400 Speaker 1: letter that indicates what the rating for that particular game 232 00:14:10,480 --> 00:14:16,200 Speaker 1: is um and and that's become the standard essentially. Uh. 233 00:14:16,720 --> 00:14:19,040 Speaker 1: And here's the thing is that there's there's no The 234 00:14:19,120 --> 00:14:21,800 Speaker 1: reason for this again is so that the consumer has 235 00:14:21,840 --> 00:14:24,360 Speaker 1: an idea of what type of content is going to 236 00:14:24,360 --> 00:14:29,040 Speaker 1: be in that game. Uh. It's it's not specifically meant 237 00:14:29,680 --> 00:14:33,960 Speaker 1: to dictate two retailers what they need to do with 238 00:14:34,000 --> 00:14:36,560 Speaker 1: each type of game. Like in other words, there's no 239 00:14:36,720 --> 00:14:42,120 Speaker 1: rule that says, okay, anything that is rated T or 240 00:14:43,200 --> 00:14:45,600 Speaker 1: or higher in the on the maturity scale like T 241 00:14:45,920 --> 00:14:50,440 Speaker 1: or M or a O cannot be three feet off 242 00:14:50,480 --> 00:14:52,720 Speaker 1: the floor. It has to be higher up than that. Like, 243 00:14:52,760 --> 00:14:56,200 Speaker 1: there's no rule about that. There's no there's no specific 244 00:14:56,240 --> 00:14:59,640 Speaker 1: policy in place or law in place that says you 245 00:14:59,760 --> 00:15:01,560 Speaker 1: have to be a certain age to be able to 246 00:15:01,640 --> 00:15:03,880 Speaker 1: buy a game. The rating is there as a guide 247 00:15:04,040 --> 00:15:06,720 Speaker 1: to say this is what, this is who the game 248 00:15:06,800 --> 00:15:10,280 Speaker 1: is intended. You know, we mean this for people who 249 00:15:10,280 --> 00:15:13,840 Speaker 1: are seventeen or older or eighteen or older. In fact, 250 00:15:13,840 --> 00:15:17,000 Speaker 1: there was the United States Supreme Court found that that 251 00:15:17,080 --> 00:15:24,280 Speaker 1: you cannot restrict mature or adults only titles to specific 252 00:15:24,320 --> 00:15:28,960 Speaker 1: age groups because video game content falls under the realm 253 00:15:29,000 --> 00:15:32,760 Speaker 1: of free speech, which cannot be infringed upon by the government. 254 00:15:32,800 --> 00:15:35,680 Speaker 1: Now that doesn't mean that the stores can't have policies 255 00:15:36,120 --> 00:15:38,120 Speaker 1: because the stores are not the government. In fact, that 256 00:15:38,160 --> 00:15:40,760 Speaker 1: was the whole reason why this board was formed, was 257 00:15:40,800 --> 00:15:43,880 Speaker 1: so that they could keep that separation between government and business. 258 00:15:44,480 --> 00:15:47,680 Speaker 1: So a an actual retailer, if you were to go 259 00:15:47,840 --> 00:15:50,880 Speaker 1: to a video game store, they might have a policy 260 00:15:50,920 --> 00:15:55,280 Speaker 1: that says, we do not sell UH any game that 261 00:15:55,600 --> 00:15:59,760 Speaker 1: is ranked M or AO to anyone under the age 262 00:15:59,760 --> 00:16:01,360 Speaker 1: of event ten, and we will ask for I D. 263 00:16:01,600 --> 00:16:05,120 Speaker 1: And that's their policy, and it's perfectly fine. The government 264 00:16:05,160 --> 00:16:09,040 Speaker 1: can't restrict it, but a store can, and UH also 265 00:16:09,680 --> 00:16:13,320 Speaker 1: go ahead and say it. AO games very rarely get 266 00:16:13,320 --> 00:16:16,720 Speaker 1: carried in stores because it's kind of the same thing 267 00:16:16,840 --> 00:16:20,640 Speaker 1: as the n C seventeen rating for films. Films that 268 00:16:20,720 --> 00:16:24,280 Speaker 1: get an NC seventeen rating very very rarely get any 269 00:16:24,360 --> 00:16:27,320 Speaker 1: sort of release in most theaters. You might have a 270 00:16:27,360 --> 00:16:30,480 Speaker 1: few independent theaters that will run in C seventeen movies, 271 00:16:31,120 --> 00:16:33,320 Speaker 1: but in general they do not get any sort of 272 00:16:33,320 --> 00:16:35,840 Speaker 1: wide release at all. It's very rare when that happens. 273 00:16:36,400 --> 00:16:38,320 Speaker 1: So the same sort of thing with AO games. So 274 00:16:38,400 --> 00:16:41,160 Speaker 1: getting an AO rating, if you are a game publisher 275 00:16:41,320 --> 00:16:43,240 Speaker 1: and you develop a game and you submit it to 276 00:16:43,280 --> 00:16:45,880 Speaker 1: the E s r B and you get an AO rating, 277 00:16:46,440 --> 00:16:49,000 Speaker 1: your first reaction might be, we need to change this 278 00:16:49,120 --> 00:16:51,880 Speaker 1: because no one's going to carry our game in stores 279 00:16:51,960 --> 00:16:54,560 Speaker 1: and we're not going to make any money. Yeah, now, 280 00:16:54,560 --> 00:16:58,520 Speaker 1: they don't. They don't necessarily play all of the games. 281 00:16:58,600 --> 00:17:00,960 Speaker 1: Actually they don't. They don't play the games at all. Well, 282 00:17:01,000 --> 00:17:03,320 Speaker 1: they do have in house testers, according to the s 283 00:17:03,400 --> 00:17:06,480 Speaker 1: r B, who do go through it um and as 284 00:17:06,480 --> 00:17:10,399 Speaker 1: a result of uh, the whole hot coffee incident, they 285 00:17:10,440 --> 00:17:13,639 Speaker 1: are supposed to at least disclose everything that's in the 286 00:17:13,720 --> 00:17:18,119 Speaker 1: in the package that you could get, even if it's hidden. 287 00:17:18,840 --> 00:17:21,360 Speaker 1: So in order to in order to understand what Chris 288 00:17:21,440 --> 00:17:22,800 Speaker 1: has just said, you know, we have to have some 289 00:17:22,840 --> 00:17:25,520 Speaker 1: background here. First of all, the generally the way that 290 00:17:25,640 --> 00:17:28,560 Speaker 1: a game manufacturer submits a game to the s r 291 00:17:28,640 --> 00:17:33,080 Speaker 1: B E s RBS UH general way of testing a 292 00:17:33,119 --> 00:17:37,040 Speaker 1: game doesn't necessarily involve playing it. It can involve playing it, 293 00:17:37,119 --> 00:17:39,800 Speaker 1: but to play a game and to really get a 294 00:17:39,800 --> 00:17:42,560 Speaker 1: sense of what the content is all about can take 295 00:17:42,640 --> 00:17:45,880 Speaker 1: hours and hours and hours of gameplay. So they don't 296 00:17:45,880 --> 00:17:47,840 Speaker 1: play every single game that comes into them all the 297 00:17:47,880 --> 00:17:50,360 Speaker 1: way through what what they do tend to do though, 298 00:17:50,560 --> 00:17:53,520 Speaker 1: is part of the s r B ratings processes. They 299 00:17:53,520 --> 00:17:57,080 Speaker 1: require a game manufacturer to submit a DVD that has 300 00:17:57,200 --> 00:18:00,760 Speaker 1: on it the examples of the most extra dream types 301 00:18:00,800 --> 00:18:04,480 Speaker 1: of content that game has. So, in other words, you're 302 00:18:04,480 --> 00:18:11,320 Speaker 1: watching like a clip compilation of the worst of this game, 303 00:18:11,400 --> 00:18:14,080 Speaker 1: worst being in the sense of like the most intense content. 304 00:18:14,200 --> 00:18:17,720 Speaker 1: So if if it has any sort of violent content 305 00:18:18,119 --> 00:18:23,560 Speaker 1: or uh, sexually graphic content, or or foul language, anything 306 00:18:23,600 --> 00:18:27,119 Speaker 1: like that, anything that would affect the rating, the most 307 00:18:27,200 --> 00:18:30,000 Speaker 1: intense examples of that are supposed to be included on 308 00:18:30,080 --> 00:18:34,240 Speaker 1: the DVD so that the ratings experts who are trained 309 00:18:34,400 --> 00:18:39,639 Speaker 1: in uh the the processes that the e s r 310 00:18:39,760 --> 00:18:42,879 Speaker 1: B uses to determine the rating for a game, so 311 00:18:42,920 --> 00:18:47,080 Speaker 1: that they can determine what rating applies here. And if 312 00:18:47,160 --> 00:18:50,760 Speaker 1: you were to release a game that turned out to 313 00:18:50,840 --> 00:18:54,639 Speaker 1: contain content that went beyond what you showed the DVD 314 00:18:54,880 --> 00:18:58,000 Speaker 1: in the DVD, you could suffer some pretty stiff finds 315 00:18:58,680 --> 00:19:03,080 Speaker 1: industry uh, the industry itself would find you and you 316 00:19:03,119 --> 00:19:06,480 Speaker 1: could face a recall which could be very expensive to 317 00:19:06,560 --> 00:19:09,040 Speaker 1: recall all the copies of the game. Now that is 318 00:19:09,119 --> 00:19:11,720 Speaker 1: the case when when Christmas talking about the hot coffee 319 00:19:11,760 --> 00:19:15,680 Speaker 1: incident that's specifically talking about it was Grand Theft Auto 320 00:19:15,800 --> 00:19:18,480 Speaker 1: four right, I want to say, or Grand Theft Auto 321 00:19:18,520 --> 00:19:21,520 Speaker 1: San Andreas. Grand Theft Auto s Andreas was specifically what 322 00:19:21,520 --> 00:19:25,800 Speaker 1: it was. Uh I owned that game. So this was 323 00:19:26,280 --> 00:19:29,000 Speaker 1: something that was originally included in the game, and it 324 00:19:29,080 --> 00:19:30,879 Speaker 1: was a mini game, and it was it was a 325 00:19:30,880 --> 00:19:36,080 Speaker 1: sexual encounter and it was Ultimately the game designers decided 326 00:19:36,160 --> 00:19:38,240 Speaker 1: not to include it in the game, but they didn't 327 00:19:38,320 --> 00:19:42,639 Speaker 1: remove it so much as they kind of the code 328 00:19:42,680 --> 00:19:45,040 Speaker 1: was still there, but it was inactive. It was sort 329 00:19:45,080 --> 00:19:47,600 Speaker 1: of like an Easter egg. Well, yeah, you could get 330 00:19:47,640 --> 00:19:51,680 Speaker 1: to it if you if you knew how to either uh, 331 00:19:51,800 --> 00:19:54,560 Speaker 1: if you knew how to either alter an Xbox console 332 00:19:55,400 --> 00:19:58,000 Speaker 1: or if you're using the PC version, if you were 333 00:19:58,000 --> 00:20:01,359 Speaker 1: able to use some software to activate the code, you 334 00:20:01,400 --> 00:20:04,720 Speaker 1: could get access to this game. But it was this 335 00:20:04,840 --> 00:20:08,159 Speaker 1: mini game within the game, but it was not intended 336 00:20:08,320 --> 00:20:11,200 Speaker 1: for public consumption, at least that's what the publisher said. 337 00:20:11,720 --> 00:20:14,840 Speaker 1: And the problem was that went outside what they had 338 00:20:15,160 --> 00:20:18,400 Speaker 1: submitted to the ratings board, and they had their original 339 00:20:18,520 --> 00:20:22,320 Speaker 1: rating for that game was M for mature that many 340 00:20:22,440 --> 00:20:25,680 Speaker 1: game pushed it over to adults only, and so they 341 00:20:25,800 --> 00:20:29,080 Speaker 1: ended up doing a recall and republishing the game without 342 00:20:29,119 --> 00:20:31,280 Speaker 1: the code and at all so they could regain that 343 00:20:31,560 --> 00:20:37,479 Speaker 1: M mature rating. Ah, if you were to uh submit 344 00:20:37,520 --> 00:20:40,520 Speaker 1: your game again, you would send this DVD to the 345 00:20:40,560 --> 00:20:42,960 Speaker 1: E s r B. They would have up to well 346 00:20:43,000 --> 00:20:47,480 Speaker 1: at least three people looking at it. Those three people 347 00:20:47,560 --> 00:20:52,080 Speaker 1: would have experience with kids. That's actually one of the 348 00:20:52,119 --> 00:20:54,320 Speaker 1: requirements is that they would have to have some sort 349 00:20:54,359 --> 00:20:57,800 Speaker 1: of experience, either professional or personal, with children in order 350 00:20:57,840 --> 00:21:00,879 Speaker 1: to be able to view the content and then judge 351 00:21:01,200 --> 00:21:05,720 Speaker 1: at what age level is this appropriate? And so it's 352 00:21:05,720 --> 00:21:09,560 Speaker 1: not just you know, some scientists with beakers and uh, 353 00:21:10,800 --> 00:21:13,720 Speaker 1: not that kind of beaker, but with a like electronic 354 00:21:13,760 --> 00:21:17,359 Speaker 1: device is saying, well, scientifically, we've determined that sixteen is 355 00:21:17,400 --> 00:21:21,439 Speaker 1: exactly the age at which this game can be sold 356 00:21:21,440 --> 00:21:24,640 Speaker 1: and no one under sixteen should ever play it. It's 357 00:21:24,640 --> 00:21:26,800 Speaker 1: not that way. It's uh, it's a little more subjective 358 00:21:26,800 --> 00:21:29,720 Speaker 1: than that. In fact, so is in fact the film 359 00:21:29,840 --> 00:21:32,879 Speaker 1: rating system. It's not there's no rating system that I 360 00:21:32,920 --> 00:21:38,680 Speaker 1: know of that is truly objective, so that you may 361 00:21:38,720 --> 00:21:41,600 Speaker 1: find examples of games on the market where you're thinking 362 00:21:42,119 --> 00:21:44,600 Speaker 1: this game is rated T for teen. This game is 363 00:21:44,720 --> 00:21:48,120 Speaker 1: rated M for mature, and I cannot see a significant 364 00:21:48,160 --> 00:21:52,240 Speaker 1: difference in content between the two games. That's entirely possible. 365 00:21:53,200 --> 00:21:55,560 Speaker 1: Same with M and a O. You might say, well, 366 00:21:55,600 --> 00:21:59,920 Speaker 1: why did this incredibly violent game get a mature rate? 367 00:22:00,119 --> 00:22:04,680 Speaker 1: But this game which has a brief UH scene that's 368 00:22:04,680 --> 00:22:06,800 Speaker 1: that's part of the game that has some sort of 369 00:22:06,840 --> 00:22:10,240 Speaker 1: sexuality to it, that got a O. And again it 370 00:22:10,280 --> 00:22:13,960 Speaker 1: also brings into question things like the cultural values like 371 00:22:14,840 --> 00:22:18,920 Speaker 1: which this gets discussions all the time. Why do we 372 00:22:19,040 --> 00:22:24,119 Speaker 1: think of violence being more acceptable than UH scenes that 373 00:22:24,200 --> 00:22:27,760 Speaker 1: depicts sexuality for example? And I mean there's that's a 374 00:22:27,760 --> 00:22:31,320 Speaker 1: complicated cultural question that goes well beyond the scope of 375 00:22:32,080 --> 00:22:34,359 Speaker 1: UH this podcast. I mean that it would be a 376 00:22:34,400 --> 00:22:38,600 Speaker 1: fascinating discussion, but doesn't really play into here. But yeah, 377 00:22:38,640 --> 00:22:41,440 Speaker 1: if you take a look, there's there's a list that 378 00:22:41,520 --> 00:22:44,960 Speaker 1: they maintained that the E. S r B maintains of 379 00:22:45,160 --> 00:22:49,840 Speaker 1: all the games that have received an AO rating. It's 380 00:22:49,840 --> 00:22:53,760 Speaker 1: a tiny, tiny list. There's not many, and almost all 381 00:22:53,800 --> 00:22:56,239 Speaker 1: of them, in fact, all of them that I can 382 00:22:56,280 --> 00:23:00,639 Speaker 1: think of, UH have strong sexual content as one of 383 00:23:00,640 --> 00:23:03,359 Speaker 1: the components of the game, And except for one was 384 00:23:03,400 --> 00:23:06,760 Speaker 1: gambling and it was actual gambling and that's what got 385 00:23:06,800 --> 00:23:09,760 Speaker 1: it an AO rating, and the rest were strong sexual 386 00:23:09,760 --> 00:23:13,040 Speaker 1: content which gave it the A O rating, whereas there 387 00:23:13,080 --> 00:23:14,840 Speaker 1: was I think only one game that I can think 388 00:23:14,880 --> 00:23:19,080 Speaker 1: of that merited and initially merited an AO rating based 389 00:23:19,200 --> 00:23:22,879 Speaker 1: solely upon violence, which was The Punisher, as I recall, 390 00:23:23,720 --> 00:23:27,320 Speaker 1: and it was it just it had such graphic depictions 391 00:23:27,320 --> 00:23:31,240 Speaker 1: of violence and and torture scenes that the game publisher 392 00:23:31,359 --> 00:23:33,560 Speaker 1: ended up going back and in order to avoid an 393 00:23:33,560 --> 00:23:36,600 Speaker 1: AO rating, they changed there was there was like some 394 00:23:36,680 --> 00:23:39,800 Speaker 1: interrogation scene I think that was so intense that that 395 00:23:39,840 --> 00:23:42,560 Speaker 1: was what was the real problem, that was the crux 396 00:23:42,560 --> 00:23:45,560 Speaker 1: of it. So they changed it from color to a 397 00:23:45,640 --> 00:23:50,800 Speaker 1: black and white uh image for that particular sequence, and 398 00:23:50,840 --> 00:23:53,200 Speaker 1: that was enough to knock it back down to mature, 399 00:23:53,680 --> 00:23:55,560 Speaker 1: which is kind of interesting. I mean again, that's a 400 00:23:55,560 --> 00:23:59,400 Speaker 1: philosophical discussion that I think needs to happen and has 401 00:23:59,440 --> 00:24:01,480 Speaker 1: happened in the ass, but needs to continue to happen. 402 00:24:02,080 --> 00:24:05,640 Speaker 1: But as outside the scope of our our show. Yeah, 403 00:24:05,760 --> 00:24:07,639 Speaker 1: but there aren't There aren't many for you know, and 404 00:24:07,640 --> 00:24:11,360 Speaker 1: they're almost all PC games. Yeah. Yeah, Well, the according 405 00:24:11,400 --> 00:24:14,719 Speaker 1: to the the e s RB, there were one thousand 406 00:24:14,720 --> 00:24:20,520 Speaker 1: three two ratings given them were rated E for everyone, 407 00:24:21,200 --> 00:24:27,000 Speaker 1: UM were everyone ten and older, were teen N were mature. 408 00:24:27,560 --> 00:24:30,000 Speaker 1: That actually really surprises me, But maybe it's because it's 409 00:24:30,000 --> 00:24:32,560 Speaker 1: the type of games I play which tend to be 410 00:24:32,680 --> 00:24:35,359 Speaker 1: in that mature range, because they tend to have a 411 00:24:35,359 --> 00:24:39,000 Speaker 1: lot of violence in them, so that that knocks it 412 00:24:39,080 --> 00:24:42,000 Speaker 1: up to mature pretty quickly. UM then and games have 413 00:24:42,040 --> 00:24:44,440 Speaker 1: gotten a lot more complicated with a big hammer and 414 00:24:44,520 --> 00:24:46,560 Speaker 1: knocks it right on up there. But games have got 415 00:24:46,560 --> 00:24:48,560 Speaker 1: a lot more complicated than when when the e s 416 00:24:48,680 --> 00:24:55,439 Speaker 1: RB first launched these these ratings, games were somewhat less 417 00:24:55,440 --> 00:24:57,600 Speaker 1: complex in the sense that not only only were they 418 00:24:57,640 --> 00:25:00,600 Speaker 1: graphically more simple, but you didn't have to worry about 419 00:25:00,640 --> 00:25:05,399 Speaker 1: things like um online components so much. You know that 420 00:25:05,800 --> 00:25:08,320 Speaker 1: this was the era where online gaming was starting to 421 00:25:08,320 --> 00:25:11,200 Speaker 1: become a thing, but it was it was pretty rare. Today, 422 00:25:11,240 --> 00:25:14,679 Speaker 1: of course, it's common for games to have online components. 423 00:25:15,200 --> 00:25:19,040 Speaker 1: So now you will also have other elements included with 424 00:25:19,280 --> 00:25:23,920 Speaker 1: your basic rating, which includes the content descriptors, which tell 425 00:25:24,000 --> 00:25:28,119 Speaker 1: you why in a very broad sense, the game is 426 00:25:28,200 --> 00:25:30,159 Speaker 1: rated a particular way. So I might say, you know, 427 00:25:30,440 --> 00:25:33,800 Speaker 1: M for strong, for for violence and blood and gore 428 00:25:33,960 --> 00:25:38,720 Speaker 1: something like that. But there's also what they call interactive elements. 429 00:25:39,200 --> 00:25:42,240 Speaker 1: These are features that a game might have that could 430 00:25:43,080 --> 00:25:46,240 Speaker 1: uh change the the experience of playing that game, but 431 00:25:46,280 --> 00:25:49,520 Speaker 1: it's outside the scope of the content itself. This is 432 00:25:49,560 --> 00:25:51,960 Speaker 1: stuff like the game has some sort of social element 433 00:25:52,000 --> 00:25:55,040 Speaker 1: to it, like it might share personal information about you 434 00:25:55,480 --> 00:25:57,960 Speaker 1: when you play this game. Well, that's something that you 435 00:25:57,960 --> 00:25:59,600 Speaker 1: would want to know. It doesn't have anything to do 436 00:25:59,640 --> 00:26:01,440 Speaker 1: with the intend of the game, but because it could 437 00:26:01,440 --> 00:26:03,879 Speaker 1: share your personal information, you probably want to know that 438 00:26:03,960 --> 00:26:07,480 Speaker 1: before you buy the game, or that it may also 439 00:26:07,600 --> 00:26:13,359 Speaker 1: allow for online play with other gamers. And now again, UH, 440 00:26:13,480 --> 00:26:16,800 Speaker 1: an online game might be the least objectionable thing in 441 00:26:16,800 --> 00:26:18,760 Speaker 1: the world. It might be a simple puzzle game that 442 00:26:18,800 --> 00:26:21,879 Speaker 1: has no objectionable content and would be rated E for 443 00:26:21,960 --> 00:26:27,240 Speaker 1: everyone based on the the gameplay itself. But if it 444 00:26:27,280 --> 00:26:30,200 Speaker 1: has that online component, then again, adults kind of need 445 00:26:30,280 --> 00:26:33,359 Speaker 1: to know because you go online and people do not 446 00:26:33,480 --> 00:26:38,480 Speaker 1: necessarily behave the same way that the content would UH suggest. 447 00:26:38,880 --> 00:26:42,800 Speaker 1: So you might have the most foul mouthed, awful person 448 00:26:42,920 --> 00:26:46,080 Speaker 1: playing a puzzle game with you, and UH, and you 449 00:26:46,080 --> 00:26:47,800 Speaker 1: know you can't blame it on the game. It's the 450 00:26:47,840 --> 00:26:50,480 Speaker 1: person who's doing it. But you know, by including that 451 00:26:50,520 --> 00:26:54,639 Speaker 1: interactive elopment on the box, the person buying the games, like, Okay, 452 00:26:54,720 --> 00:26:57,040 Speaker 1: if I play it this way, I can't expect that 453 00:26:57,200 --> 00:26:59,960 Speaker 1: sometimes I'm going to encounter material that could be objectional. 454 00:27:00,240 --> 00:27:06,119 Speaker 1: M Yeah, yeah, it's some it's all subjective, which is 455 00:27:06,920 --> 00:27:09,320 Speaker 1: that's the and that's the trickiest part, you know. You you, 456 00:27:09,440 --> 00:27:12,040 Speaker 1: like I said, you can have two different you could 457 00:27:12,119 --> 00:27:16,560 Speaker 1: submit the same game to two different fully trained groups 458 00:27:16,600 --> 00:27:20,080 Speaker 1: of people who that's their job is to uh to 459 00:27:20,560 --> 00:27:23,360 Speaker 1: put a rating to a game and get two different results. 460 00:27:23,880 --> 00:27:27,000 Speaker 1: And it's because it is subjective. There's like you know, 461 00:27:27,040 --> 00:27:29,560 Speaker 1: it's not like you count up the number of times 462 00:27:30,359 --> 00:27:32,879 Speaker 1: someone gets punched in the face and that determines whether 463 00:27:32,880 --> 00:27:37,680 Speaker 1: it goes to from T to M or or whatever. Um. Yeah, 464 00:27:37,720 --> 00:27:41,679 Speaker 1: so it's it's a little I mean, but again, this 465 00:27:41,680 --> 00:27:46,840 Speaker 1: this is all about the software industry monitoring themselves so 466 00:27:46,880 --> 00:27:49,480 Speaker 1: that there's not some sort of government agency doing it 467 00:27:49,560 --> 00:27:53,240 Speaker 1: for them. Yeah. Ultimately, it's it's in the industry's best 468 00:27:53,320 --> 00:27:57,359 Speaker 1: interest to do its own policing so that they can 469 00:27:57,400 --> 00:28:03,760 Speaker 1: avoid any in perial entanglement. Right right, right. I thought 470 00:28:03,760 --> 00:28:06,000 Speaker 1: I detected your stinch as sin as they came on board. 471 00:28:06,440 --> 00:28:13,960 Speaker 1: Um they yes, no more chili. Uh yeah, It's it's 472 00:28:13,960 --> 00:28:15,879 Speaker 1: one of those things where where you know, if the 473 00:28:15,920 --> 00:28:18,280 Speaker 1: industry didn't do it, it was gonna get done to them. 474 00:28:18,720 --> 00:28:23,560 Speaker 1: And again these these ratings are guidelines, so a store 475 00:28:23,640 --> 00:28:27,679 Speaker 1: can develop certain policies, but ultimately, like you know, you 476 00:28:27,720 --> 00:28:31,000 Speaker 1: can buy games online. That's another issue. Downloadable content that 477 00:28:31,080 --> 00:28:34,280 Speaker 1: can change a game because what comes in the package 478 00:28:34,280 --> 00:28:36,880 Speaker 1: when you buy it from the store could be very 479 00:28:36,880 --> 00:28:39,840 Speaker 1: simple and yeah, like you could have a game where 480 00:28:40,040 --> 00:28:43,920 Speaker 1: it's fairly violent but not terrible, you know. So so 481 00:28:44,160 --> 00:28:46,200 Speaker 1: let's say get a mature ratings, so it's it's bad enough, 482 00:28:46,240 --> 00:28:48,160 Speaker 1: so they say, all right, seventeen and older. They that 483 00:28:48,280 --> 00:28:50,560 Speaker 1: we're gonna limit it to seventeen or older. And then 484 00:28:50,600 --> 00:28:54,680 Speaker 1: you have downloadable content that has much more intense content 485 00:28:54,760 --> 00:28:57,520 Speaker 1: in it. Then you might have people say, way, now 486 00:28:57,560 --> 00:28:59,680 Speaker 1: this really needs to be adults only. Now that that 487 00:28:59,720 --> 00:29:02,760 Speaker 1: caused these problems, that makes it more complicated. So yeah, 488 00:29:02,800 --> 00:29:06,040 Speaker 1: I mean it's it's it's a complex issue. I also 489 00:29:06,120 --> 00:29:09,400 Speaker 1: kind of it does make me wonder at what level 490 00:29:09,480 --> 00:29:13,080 Speaker 1: do they say we need to put this as adults only. 491 00:29:13,120 --> 00:29:15,760 Speaker 1: It goes beyond mature because I've played some games that 492 00:29:15,800 --> 00:29:21,240 Speaker 1: have had some pretty intense content in it, and you know, 493 00:29:21,320 --> 00:29:24,720 Speaker 1: not that I'm advocating that those games get reassigned a 494 00:29:24,760 --> 00:29:28,080 Speaker 1: different rating, but it just makes me wonder, really, where 495 00:29:28,080 --> 00:29:32,280 Speaker 1: where is the where's the line? You know? And again 496 00:29:32,320 --> 00:29:36,640 Speaker 1: I suspect that's the strong sexual content, that's really the line. Um, 497 00:29:37,040 --> 00:29:40,960 Speaker 1: that's just a based on anecdotal experience. So it's not 498 00:29:41,280 --> 00:29:42,880 Speaker 1: you know, don't take it to the bank or anything, 499 00:29:43,480 --> 00:29:46,800 Speaker 1: but based on some of the incredibly violent games I've played, 500 00:29:47,360 --> 00:29:51,640 Speaker 1: where you can do some pretty awful stuff, it does 501 00:29:51,720 --> 00:29:53,520 Speaker 1: make me wonder, all right, where's the limit? I don't 502 00:29:53,560 --> 00:29:57,880 Speaker 1: I don't understand where the this divider is. Yeah, it's 503 00:29:57,920 --> 00:30:02,240 Speaker 1: it's understandable because it's you know, there's with it being subjective, 504 00:30:02,360 --> 00:30:06,040 Speaker 1: there's no clear cut book of stuff that people are 505 00:30:06,120 --> 00:30:08,800 Speaker 1: judging it by. Now, I would say, if you are 506 00:30:08,840 --> 00:30:12,160 Speaker 1: a parent and you're listening to this podcast, pay attention 507 00:30:12,200 --> 00:30:16,040 Speaker 1: to those ratings on the video game covers and think 508 00:30:16,160 --> 00:30:19,160 Speaker 1: about that, you know, and think about the influence that 509 00:30:19,280 --> 00:30:22,040 Speaker 1: might have on a kid, or just think if that's 510 00:30:22,400 --> 00:30:24,680 Speaker 1: if that's really something that you think your your kids 511 00:30:24,680 --> 00:30:27,600 Speaker 1: should be getting into. I mean, I think I think 512 00:30:27,600 --> 00:30:29,920 Speaker 1: parents do need to take a lot of responsibility for 513 00:30:29,920 --> 00:30:34,480 Speaker 1: this and pay attention to what their kids are getting into, because, um, 514 00:30:34,520 --> 00:30:37,560 Speaker 1: you know, it's better to know upfront than to be 515 00:30:37,640 --> 00:30:40,840 Speaker 1: surprised later on. And uh, I mean, if you're cool 516 00:30:40,880 --> 00:30:44,120 Speaker 1: with your kid playing mature games, then that's a personal 517 00:30:44,160 --> 00:30:45,959 Speaker 1: decision and I'm not going to argue with you one 518 00:30:45,960 --> 00:30:48,400 Speaker 1: way or the other. I don't have kids, so I 519 00:30:48,440 --> 00:30:51,080 Speaker 1: don't feel like I have any groundstand on when it 520 00:30:51,080 --> 00:30:53,880 Speaker 1: comes to that sort of discussion. But just be aware. 521 00:30:54,280 --> 00:30:56,719 Speaker 1: As vilified as it is in some circles, I do 522 00:30:56,800 --> 00:31:00,880 Speaker 1: think that having the ratings available two people makes it 523 00:31:00,920 --> 00:31:04,600 Speaker 1: a little easier to tell sort of the situation you're 524 00:31:04,600 --> 00:31:07,680 Speaker 1: getting into when you when you pick up a game, Um, 525 00:31:07,720 --> 00:31:09,880 Speaker 1: and there are I'm I'm sure there are quite a 526 00:31:09,960 --> 00:31:14,959 Speaker 1: few adults who who are buying games for themselves who's 527 00:31:15,000 --> 00:31:17,120 Speaker 1: sort of like, you know, you just see you can 528 00:31:17,120 --> 00:31:18,880 Speaker 1: glance at the game, you go, oh, that looks interesting, 529 00:31:18,920 --> 00:31:20,280 Speaker 1: and then you see the thing and you might say, 530 00:31:20,320 --> 00:31:23,080 Speaker 1: you know what, if this is mature, there's probably a 531 00:31:23,080 --> 00:31:25,320 Speaker 1: lot of violence words, or if you're an adult, you 532 00:31:25,400 --> 00:31:27,080 Speaker 1: might look in and say, oh, look at the team 533 00:31:27,160 --> 00:31:29,719 Speaker 1: that's not gonna. Yeah, it goes the other way too, right, 534 00:31:29,920 --> 00:31:32,920 Speaker 1: Like you have people who want to play really intense games. 535 00:31:32,920 --> 00:31:34,760 Speaker 1: They're like, oh, this looks cool, and then you're like, oh, 536 00:31:34,800 --> 00:31:37,400 Speaker 1: it's t for team that's not intense enough. Just like 537 00:31:37,480 --> 00:31:39,720 Speaker 1: you know, I hear this all the time from people 538 00:31:39,720 --> 00:31:42,160 Speaker 1: who are fans of horror movies and a horror movie 539 00:31:42,200 --> 00:31:44,280 Speaker 1: comes out and it's rated PG or PG thirteen and 540 00:31:44,320 --> 00:31:46,800 Speaker 1: they think, oh, well, then it's not worth seeing because 541 00:31:46,800 --> 00:31:49,160 Speaker 1: it's not gonna You know, personally, I think that you 542 00:31:49,200 --> 00:31:52,520 Speaker 1: can do a lot within that rating by cranking up 543 00:31:52,560 --> 00:31:56,120 Speaker 1: tension and terror. Uh. You know, it doesn't necessarily mean 544 00:31:56,160 --> 00:31:59,480 Speaker 1: that it's an inferior movie just because it has that rating. 545 00:31:59,680 --> 00:32:01,880 Speaker 1: But that's that's one of those things like you know, 546 00:32:01,920 --> 00:32:03,080 Speaker 1: you go out and you buy a game, or you're 547 00:32:03,080 --> 00:32:05,160 Speaker 1: going to buy a game, you see it's Ray for everyone. 548 00:32:05,160 --> 00:32:07,000 Speaker 1: You're like, yeah, I could get that, or I could 549 00:32:07,000 --> 00:32:12,440 Speaker 1: get Blood, Guts and Gore seven the torturing, which is him, 550 00:32:12,720 --> 00:32:15,680 Speaker 1: let's get that one instead, and has nothing to do 551 00:32:15,760 --> 00:32:18,280 Speaker 1: with the quality of the content in the sense of 552 00:32:18,320 --> 00:32:21,520 Speaker 1: whether it's a fun game to play. It just has 553 00:32:21,560 --> 00:32:25,680 Speaker 1: to do with the actual content. So um, yeah, don't 554 00:32:25,760 --> 00:32:30,360 Speaker 1: treat these ratings as uh as as a statement of 555 00:32:30,400 --> 00:32:33,400 Speaker 1: the actual quality of the game itself. That would be 556 00:32:33,440 --> 00:32:35,640 Speaker 1: a mistake as well, because you could have a game 557 00:32:35,640 --> 00:32:41,080 Speaker 1: that's rated implemature that's nearly unplayable, just terrible, and another 558 00:32:41,120 --> 00:32:44,360 Speaker 1: game that's E for everyone that might seem like it's 559 00:32:44,400 --> 00:32:47,960 Speaker 1: just a very you know, kind of simple, silly game, 560 00:32:48,000 --> 00:32:51,600 Speaker 1: but be really genuinely fun to play. So don't take 561 00:32:51,640 --> 00:32:55,320 Speaker 1: the ratings as any sort of comment on what the 562 00:32:55,360 --> 00:32:58,040 Speaker 1: gameplay experience will be like. That would be that would 563 00:32:58,040 --> 00:33:00,120 Speaker 1: be kind of interesting. Have a different set of ratings 564 00:33:00,000 --> 00:33:01,760 Speaker 1: as well. You know this is this is rated E 565 00:33:01,880 --> 00:33:04,360 Speaker 1: for everyone, so maybe my kid could Oh wait, no, 566 00:33:04,480 --> 00:33:08,280 Speaker 1: it's rated S for stinks. Never mind, it's ready for 567 00:33:08,360 --> 00:33:10,960 Speaker 1: E for everyone who doesn't care if their game is 568 00:33:10,960 --> 00:33:13,280 Speaker 1: good or not. Like, no, I don't want that one. 569 00:33:13,360 --> 00:33:18,000 Speaker 1: This this rating system got really complicated. Yeah, that's why 570 00:33:18,000 --> 00:33:21,000 Speaker 1: I go to different video game sites that uh that 571 00:33:21,120 --> 00:33:25,880 Speaker 1: post reviews of video games, because again, this, this maturity 572 00:33:25,960 --> 00:33:28,000 Speaker 1: rating doesn't give you any indication of whether or not 573 00:33:28,000 --> 00:33:30,440 Speaker 1: the game is actually worth playing. See see, I stay 574 00:33:30,440 --> 00:33:32,400 Speaker 1: away from the M rating because I'm just not mature 575 00:33:32,520 --> 00:33:34,959 Speaker 1: enough to handle it. Well, this comes as a surprise 576 00:33:35,040 --> 00:33:37,480 Speaker 1: to no one, Pullett drew. So that wraps up this 577 00:33:37,520 --> 00:33:40,360 Speaker 1: discussion about the E s r B. If you guys 578 00:33:40,400 --> 00:33:43,560 Speaker 1: have any suggestions for topics we should cover in future 579 00:33:43,600 --> 00:33:46,320 Speaker 1: episodes of tech Stuff, I highly recommend you let us know. 580 00:33:46,760 --> 00:33:49,360 Speaker 1: Send us an email or addresses tech stuff at Discovery 581 00:33:49,400 --> 00:33:51,600 Speaker 1: dot com, or drop us a line on Facebook for 582 00:33:51,760 --> 00:33:53,880 Speaker 1: Twitter or handled there as tech Stuff. Hs W and 583 00:33:53,960 --> 00:33:56,160 Speaker 1: Chris and I will talk to you again really soon. 584 00:33:57,680 --> 00:34:00,240 Speaker 1: For more on this and thousands of other topics, visit 585 00:34:00,280 --> 00:34:05,480 Speaker 1: houstaff works dot com.