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Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie and Samantha. I'm welcome to Stuff.

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Speaker 2: I'll Never told you, a production of iHeartRadio, and today

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Speaker 2: we're bringing back a classic on romance scams. I don't

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Speaker 2: know why, but I've been thinking about this a lot lately.

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Speaker 2: I've seen a lot of news about it, and it's

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Speaker 2: just been in my head. And especially because we've been

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Speaker 2: talking about how dating kind of looks for the younger

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Speaker 2: generation and how the technology is evolving. I'm just curious.

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Speaker 2: I think we're going to have to do a revisit

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Speaker 2: to this one soon.

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Speaker 1: Oh for sure.

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Speaker 3: Like just the different ideas and techniques. I sent you

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Speaker 3: that one where one brotary is literally like advocate for

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Speaker 3: your friend and they have to do powerpoints to try

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Speaker 3: to find them days and I'm like, what is this

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Speaker 3: millennial slash gen z melding point here?

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Speaker 1: Because what well, hopefully that's not a scam.

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Speaker 3: But yeah, I'm just saying, we need to have a

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Speaker 3: whole conversation about this whole field because it could be

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Speaker 3: to your friend.

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Speaker 2: I did when you sent that to me. I laughed

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Speaker 2: at some of the things on there. I'm hoping it's

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Speaker 2: coming from a good place. But one of them said

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Speaker 2: Harlings constantly changes and I did laugh that was funny.

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Speaker 2: But yeah, we're gonna have to come back and do

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Speaker 2: a visit a revisit of this one. But in the meantime,

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Speaker 2: please enjoy this classic episode. Hey, this is Nanny and

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Speaker 2: Samantha and welcome to Stefan. Never told you a protection

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Speaker 2: of iHeartRadio. So to start this one, Samantha, I have

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Speaker 2: a couple questions for you. One. In your time online dating,

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Speaker 2: do you feel like you came across a lot of

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Speaker 2: fake profiles or any kind of romantic scams.

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Speaker 3: I definitely came across fake profiles, a few of them,

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Speaker 3: and because of that and just in general of my mistrust,

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Speaker 3: if they were too good looking.

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Speaker 4: I assumed it was fake and moved on.

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Speaker 3: If they didn't have a lot of information, I assume

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Speaker 3: they were fake and moved on. Or or there's some

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Speaker 3: reason like they're trying to be sneaky, sneaky and cheating

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Speaker 3: and they don't want their partner to see them or

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Speaker 3: be caught. I've seen a lot of that than being

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Speaker 3: real trickster I've had. Of course, if they're also not

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Speaker 3: showing their face, that was a big no as well.

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Speaker 3: So I assume most of those were some type of lie,

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Speaker 3: yeah or falsehood.

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Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, yeah, that's interesting. We're going to come back

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Speaker 2: to that and talk about that in this episode. Also,

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Speaker 2: like when you imagine someone who is the target of

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Speaker 2: a romance scam the stereotypical victim in your mind.

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Speaker 3: Well, it goes back and forth, because sometimes I've definitely

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Speaker 3: seen the hopeless woman duped, so a woman who has

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Speaker 3: left a lot of money being like somehow taken advantage of.

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Speaker 4: So I've seen a thought.

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Speaker 3: Of that, But then also lately, like the fishing, like

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Speaker 3: a catfishing that I've seen, it looks like it goes

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Speaker 3: off to a lot of what I would say, nerdy men,

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Speaker 3: almost in cell level men. Oh wow, huh, I've seen

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Speaker 3: that as well. So it was like overly beautiful women

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Speaker 3: and their men are more likely to.

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Speaker 1: Believe that, right, Yeah, that's interesting.

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Speaker 2: So I feel like because today we're talking about romance

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Speaker 2: scams and it is a popular topic of conversation right now,

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Speaker 2: and I'm pretty sure there's a couple of shows on

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Speaker 2: Netflix that are coming out about it specifically, and I

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Speaker 2: think that our understanding of who I don't even want

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Speaker 2: to say, the stereotypical victim is because it's it's more

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Speaker 2: like it can happen any But I feel like for

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Speaker 2: a long time, my understanding was it was older usually

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Speaker 2: women who their husband had died and they didn't understand

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Speaker 2: the internet very well. Maybe right, they were very trusting,

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Speaker 2: but also I feel like I've seen a lot of the.

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Speaker 1: Almost like.

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Speaker 2: I hate to say this, but like the show is

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Speaker 2: kind of painting as in this person and usually in

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Speaker 2: my case, woman is pathetic and she's so like her

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Speaker 2: self esteem is so low, and it's this guy reaching

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Speaker 2: out to her, and then it's kind of played off

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Speaker 2: as a joke that she believed in, right, Yeah, and

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Speaker 2: she's these.

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Speaker 3: Tears those episodes of that or usually that becomes like death.

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Speaker 4: Somehow, or they get like, yeah, I.

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Speaker 3: Don't want like an as sexual assault thing happens of

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Speaker 3: some sort or like among those I've seen that, so

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Speaker 3: that's a little darker twist. I've watched a lot of

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Speaker 3: dark things apparently, you know, when it comes to like

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Speaker 3: elderly people in getting scammed, I do see it being

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Speaker 3: older women, but usually something to do with religion or real.

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Speaker 4: Estate, not necessarily romance.

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Speaker 3: So we might have come back to that because that's

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Speaker 3: what I've seen a lot of questions and phone scams.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, oh yeah, I mean there's so much, so much

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Speaker 2: to unpack here. I think it's interesting though that, like

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Speaker 2: as this has.

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Speaker 1: Become we've learned more about it.

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Speaker 2: I can think of several different versions I've seen of

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Speaker 2: this playing out in our popular media.

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Speaker 1: So, as I said, it can't happen to anybody.

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Speaker 2: As we move into February, the month of love or

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Speaker 2: what did you call.

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Speaker 1: It, Samantha, anti love?

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Speaker 4: We're anti Valentine essentially.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, if you want to celebrate it.

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Speaker 1: I've had some good ones totally. Yeah, but yeah, we're

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Speaker 1: kind of a.

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Speaker 2: We do a darker take on an over here, Yeah,

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Speaker 2: because we wanted to take this this look at a

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Speaker 2: not so happy aspect of love, as is our tradition,

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Speaker 2: and that being romance scams.

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Speaker 1: And yes, as I said, they have been in.

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Speaker 2: The news a lot lately, and there is a lot

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Speaker 2: of information out there about them, about how to recognize

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Speaker 2: them and prevent them specifically, and I will admit they

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Speaker 2: are a bigger problem than I thought they were.

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Speaker 3: Right, you know what I've seen recently, however, I've seen

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Speaker 3: more of like when I say romance scams, maybe like

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Speaker 3: just trickery in my head. So this is a little

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Speaker 3: different is when a partner is trying to see if

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Speaker 3: their partner will cheat, and it's typically women who are

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Speaker 3: reaching out to other women to ask to try to

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Speaker 3: start something with their man. Wow in these general relationships,

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Speaker 3: and I've seen a lot more of that. Like I've

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Speaker 3: seen a few where the men ask the men, but

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Speaker 3: it's typically women have been asking women.

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Speaker 4: So I don't know if this is like an actual thing.

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Speaker 3: Or they've just like I somehow got on it on

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Speaker 3: the social media side.

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Speaker 4: Of it and saw a lot more.

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Speaker 3: I know there's a few popular women who are investigators

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Speaker 3: who've done this, and typically there have been several moments

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Speaker 3: where that woman who has hired this other woman, that

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Speaker 3: woman gets mad at the person they hired.

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Speaker 4: It works, that's a whole different conversation. But I've seen

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Speaker 4: that recently.

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Speaker 1: I did not know about.

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Speaker 2: That's interesting because I know, like again going back to stereotypes,

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Speaker 2: and I think there were I'm not sure what the

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Speaker 2: numbers are now, but last time I looked into this, men,

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Speaker 2: like we talked about in cyberstalking, are much more likely

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Speaker 2: to try to investigate that their woman is cheating. Are

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Speaker 2: assume they're cheating, right, I would like to revisit that.

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Speaker 2: That is interesting, okay, right, given.

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Speaker 3: And I have seen where the men, if they've been

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Speaker 3: rejected on a site, tries to go back and find

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Speaker 3: that woman as a different person, so catfishing them, but's

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Speaker 3: stalking them and trying to get a second chance or

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Speaker 3: try to find out if they're dating other people, like

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Speaker 3: why they work up with them or something like that.

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Speaker 3: So it's been really and that one's like a little

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Speaker 3: more stalkersh.

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Speaker 2: Yet I've seen so I've never experienced that to my knowledge. Yeah, no, definitely,

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Speaker 2: because I'm very picky about who I'll engage with online.

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Speaker 2: So I've never experienced that online. But I have experienced

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Speaker 2: I know, I've told this story a million times, but

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Speaker 2: it just sticks out with me. Of this guy at

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Speaker 2: a club back when I went to the club, I

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Speaker 2: told him, like I flat out if we you know,

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Speaker 2: we try so many different strategies as women to reject

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Speaker 2: that men that won't make them madden, and you know

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Speaker 2: there's so.

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Speaker 1: Much victim blaming in it.

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Speaker 2: So one time I did, I just flat out told

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Speaker 2: this guy, I know, because I didn't want him to

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Speaker 2: I tried to do it in a nice way, but

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Speaker 2: I said, like, no, I'm not interested, and he shouted

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Speaker 2: in my face it's because I'm not brad Pit, isn't.

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Speaker 4: It feels like he's.

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Speaker 2: The type of guy who online is probably trying that now,

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Speaker 2: but it's got like a Brad Pit esque.

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Speaker 3: I got that weird online thing where a dude messaged

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Speaker 3: me but his message wasn't a like, wasn't necessarily a question.

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Speaker 4: And this is the first communication I've ever had from him.

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Speaker 3: And he immediately says, I would like to go out

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Speaker 3: with you, but I know women like you don't date

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Speaker 3: like men like me, and you only want the perfect

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Speaker 3: white guy, So I don't even know why I'm trying.

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Speaker 4: That was its opener, and I was like, wow, well

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Speaker 4: you seem angry, so I don't. There's nothing about this

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Speaker 4: is redeeming.

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Speaker 3: I don't know what you wanted, right, but yes, now

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Speaker 3: I'm definitely ignoring you. Right.

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Speaker 2: That feels like, oh, like one of the worst examples

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Speaker 2: I've ever heard of somebody trying to prepare themselves for

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Speaker 2: rejection but hoping that you might be like, No, I

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Speaker 2: would never I'm not like those other girls.

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Speaker 1: That's just terrible.

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Speaker 4: Is that does that work? I got to know it

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Speaker 4: does that?

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Speaker 3: Like I really wish I could have asked to do

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Speaker 3: but I just didn't even want to.

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Speaker 4: I'm like, work for you, because why would you do this?

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Speaker 3: What self perspective? Woman would actually like respond to this?

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Speaker 2: Right?

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Speaker 1: Well, that's what is that called.

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Speaker 2: There's a whole joke about it what we do in

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Speaker 2: the shadow than the TV show where it's like, oh,

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Speaker 2: they have a fun word for it, but it's nega.

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Speaker 1: So basically oh yeah, yeah, yeah, is like go and

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Speaker 1: go up to this woman.

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Speaker 2: Women love it when you go up and are mean

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Speaker 2: to them and she'll be so attracted.

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Speaker 1: But he was.

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Speaker 4: Amazing himself, So I don't like that.

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Speaker 3: I don't think it's nagging necessarily because it's typically like oh, yeah,

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Speaker 3: I bet you're you're.

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Speaker 4: Kind of cute, but you're not excuted as her like

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Speaker 4: that level. But like he did not do that.

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Speaker 3: It just was like, you're not going to choose me

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Speaker 3: because I'm not wide enough for you, And I was like,

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Speaker 3: what is happening?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, that's an interesting and terrible I want to

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Speaker 2: say a strategy.

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Speaker 1: But I do.

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Speaker 2: I feel like he thought like maybe you would want

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Speaker 2: to make him feel better and also want to prove

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Speaker 2: to him.

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Speaker 1: No, I'm not.

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Speaker 2: Saying it's a good strategy. I'm just saying that's what

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Speaker 2: he was doing.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, there's so many things to the like online dating

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Speaker 3: and romance and everything that it's.

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Speaker 4: Flipped as wild. This world is wild.

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Speaker 2: It is, it is, and it's unfortunate that we have

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Speaker 2: to look out for these things romance scams, because I

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Speaker 2: do want to put in here, as we've already discussed

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Speaker 2: in this there are a lot of jokes about romance scams,

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Speaker 2: but they've left people heartbroken and robbed, and when you

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Speaker 2: think about it.

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Speaker 1: It's pretty mean. Like it's mean.

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Speaker 2: And we've talked about grooming on social media and past

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Speaker 2: episodes and this that's highly related to what we're talking about.

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Speaker 2: It's also related to what we talked about in cybers talking.

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Speaker 2: So yeah, just to put that out there that there

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Speaker 2: are people who have suffered from these things that we're

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Speaker 2: talking about.

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Speaker 3: Let's start with a definition because we love that from

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Speaker 3: the FBI's website. Quote, Romance scams occur when a criminal

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Speaker 3: adopts a fake online identity to gain a victim's affection

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Speaker 3: and trust. The scammer then uses the illusion of a

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Speaker 3: romantic or close relationship to manipulate and or steal from

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Speaker 3: the victim.

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Speaker 2: And the FBI goes on to specify that the people

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Speaker 2: behind romance scams are often experts. They're often con artists,

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Speaker 2: and they frequently operate on dating apps and social media.

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Speaker 2: The con artist in question will work to endear themselves

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Speaker 2: to the target by building trust with conversation and interaction,

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Speaker 2: with promises of meeting in person and perhaps marriage promises

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Speaker 2: that notably never come to fruition. They utilize fake dating

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Speaker 2: and social media profiles and what is often called catfishing.

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Speaker 2: Then comes the ask for money, often to cover a

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Speaker 2: surprise medical fee or a legal fee that they promise

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Speaker 2: to pay back but never do. They often claim that

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Speaker 2: they are on building projects outside of the United States

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Speaker 2: or whatever country the target is located in. Scammers frequently

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Speaker 2: claim to be in the military too, or working on

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Speaker 2: an oil rig, or a doctor with an international organization,

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Speaker 2: So basically, they're like traveling a lot not near you,

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Speaker 2: and they often ask for money to pay for a

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Speaker 2: plane ticket or other travel expenses, surgery or other medical expenses,

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Speaker 2: custom fees, to pay off gambling debts, or to pay

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Speaker 2: for travel documents. They usually ask the target to wire

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Speaker 2: money or to pay with a reload and or gift card.

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Speaker 2: Because they are anonymous and pretty much impossible to reverse.

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Speaker 2: It's not a one time thing either. They keep asking

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Speaker 2: for more until the scam is up or the money

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Speaker 2: is gone right again.

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Speaker 3: I feel like these are so many, either like criminal

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Speaker 3: minds or all these little episodes that we see. So

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Speaker 3: romance scams are up in recent years, which is really sad.

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Speaker 3: In twenty twenty, the FTC reported three hundred and four

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Speaker 3: million dollars in losses due to romance scams, a fifty

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Speaker 3: percent increase from twenty nineteen. The reported money loss to

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Speaker 3: these scams has increased by six times since twenty fifteen.

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Speaker 3: The FTC also reported that while there were eleven two

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Speaker 3: hundred and thirty five cases reported in twenty sixteen, there

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Speaker 3: were fifty two, five.

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Speaker 4: Hundred and ninety three and twenty twenty.

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Speaker 1: Who Yeah, that's a big number. That is a huge number,

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Speaker 1: and a part of this is yeah.

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Speaker 2: So. Numbers from twenty twenty one indicate that three out

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Speaker 2: of ten Americans have used a dating website, including one

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Speaker 2: out of five Americans between the ages of fifty to

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Speaker 2: sixty four. However, while the popular stereotype is the one

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Speaker 2: of older folks becoming victims to these types of scams,

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Speaker 2: anyone can be a target.

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Speaker 1: I just want to reiterate that anyone can be a target.

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Speaker 2: In fact, a recent survey came out indicating that Gen

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Speaker 2: Z is at the highest risk of these types of scams.

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Speaker 4: Oh, I wonder why, let's find out.

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Speaker 3: So from CNBC quote, the number of individuals ages twenty

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Speaker 3: or younger members of the Generation Z or gen Z

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Speaker 3: who has grown up on spartphones and the Internet reporting

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Speaker 3: they are victims of cyber fraud has served one hundred

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Speaker 3: and fifty six percent over the last three years. And

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Speaker 3: this is according to the study from Social Catfish, an

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Speaker 3: online identity verification service. Maybe we need to get onto

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Speaker 3: this type of services just to get scammed. That compares

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Speaker 3: to one hundred and twelve percent growth during the same

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Speaker 3: time among people age sixty or older, the group with

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Speaker 3: the next fastest scam growth. So maybe it is a

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Speaker 3: social media and smartphones that's making that difference. However, the

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Speaker 3: overall financial toll is higher for older folks. The average

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Speaker 3: loss from a romantic scam for those over seventy is

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Speaker 3: four hundred and seventy five dollars compared to the twenty

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Speaker 3: five hundred dollars across all age groups.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, that's pretty significant.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, in twenty ten, romance scams accounting for one of

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Speaker 3: the top ten most costly scams for those sixty and older.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and.

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Speaker 2: We're going to talk about this a bit later, but

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Speaker 2: I do want to also know a listener several years ago,

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Speaker 2: so I hope you're still listening, suggested this topic and

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Speaker 2: they said how devastating it was to watch I believe

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Speaker 2: their mother just not believe that this wasn't a real

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Speaker 2: person and having those conversations because it's just so painful

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Speaker 2: to tell someone like, no, this isn't a real person,

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Speaker 2: cares about you and they're just asking for money, And

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Speaker 2: how devastating it was for her as someone who knew

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Speaker 2: a person who's being affected by this.

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Speaker 1: So it's not just like one person.

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Speaker 2: It often has ripple effects for people in their support group.

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Speaker 2: According to a detective interviewed by the Irish Times, when

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Speaker 2: it comes to romance scams, the vast majority of victims

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Speaker 2: are women. Many are separated or widowed, and in their

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Speaker 2: late fifties or their sixties. They might have family, but

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Speaker 2: maybe living alone. They have maybe had some wine in

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Speaker 2: the evening, so their inhibitions are down. They are not, however,

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Speaker 2: what I would describe as vulnerable. They are nive, for sure,

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Speaker 2: but they tend to be very well educated professionals and

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Speaker 2: would hate to be described as vulnerable. More than seventy

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Speaker 2: percent of these caught up in romance scams are women.

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Speaker 2: What happens with men is different. Not long after contact

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Speaker 2: is made, a man might get a video from the

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Speaker 2: woman he believes he is communicating with, and in it

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Speaker 2: she is performing a sex act, so he sends something

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Speaker 2: similar back, and then it quickly becomes a case of blackmail,

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Speaker 2: which we talked about a little bit in our Cyberstocking episode.

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Speaker 2: In the words of Paul C. Dwyer, chief executive of

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Speaker 2: cyber Risk International, quote, the romance scams are huge. They

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Speaker 2: try and find a lonely woman and get her to

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Speaker 2: fall in love with a handsome profile picture of a guy.

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Speaker 2: It's not like there's one bad actor with one victim.

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Speaker 2: These guys might have forty or fifty women on the go,

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Speaker 2: and they keep all the plate spinning, so it becomes

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Speaker 2: extremely lucrative. They have their cubicle. That's their job, and

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Speaker 2: they go in every day and will keep files and

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Speaker 2: techniques as they work away to get somebody. What they're

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Speaker 2: selling is love and hope, and you have these lonely

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Speaker 2: people buying it because they're falling for the dream.

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Speaker 1: Oh makes me sad.

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Speaker 2: And these scams often overlap with other criminal activities. International

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Speaker 2: criminal gangs often use dating apps to launder illegally obtained

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Speaker 2: funds through bank accounts of unsuspecting folks, some who have

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Speaker 2: even been arrested for it, like they didn't realize their

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Speaker 2: bank accounts were being used in this way and they

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Speaker 2: got arrested. Going back to our recent episode on cryptocurrency,

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Speaker 2: the FBI has recently raised the flag about the rise

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Speaker 2: of cryptocurrency scams, especially since there's so much confusion around

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Speaker 2: how crypto works and the whole get rich quick element

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Speaker 2: that kind of surrounds crypto just like romance scams. Crypto

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Speaker 2: scams have served in recent years. From October twenty twenty

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Speaker 2: to March twenty twenty one, the FTC received about six

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Speaker 2: eight hundred complaints compared to five hundred and seventy from

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Speaker 2: the same period the year prior. Reported losses grew by

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Speaker 2: ten times to eighty million dollars. Sometimes crypto scammers are

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Speaker 2: also romance scammers. According to the FBI, in the first

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Speaker 2: seven months of twenty twenty one, they received one eight

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Speaker 2: hundred reports of crypto focused romance scams, equaling upwards of

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Speaker 2: one hundred and thirty three million dollars of losses. Some

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Speaker 2: of these are going yeah after thirty after forty or

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Speaker 2: fifty women at the same time, so that's a lot

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Speaker 2: and many experts think the pandemic exacerbated all of this.

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Speaker 2: Online dating was the only acceptable dating and online interaction

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Speaker 2: in general was how we were interacting because.

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Speaker 1: A pandemic so and people who are lonely.

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Speaker 2: A lot of people have been and are lonely during

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Speaker 2: this pandemic.

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Speaker 3: Right, the US isn't the only country seeing such arise

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Speaker 3: from the Guardian quote. According to Action Fraud, the UK's

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Speaker 3: reporting center for fraud and cybercrime, eight hundred and sixty

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Speaker 3: three cases were reported to the National Fraud Intelligence Bureau

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Speaker 3: or NFIB, between November twenty twenty and October twenty twenty one,

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Speaker 3: up from six nine hundred and sixty eight the previous year.

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Speaker 3: With the total losses for the past year amounting to

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Speaker 3: almost ninety two million pounds. Daters who started online relationships

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Speaker 3: between Christmas and Valentine's Day were the most susceptible, y'all,

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Speaker 3: so be careful, with nine hundred and one reports recorded

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Speaker 3: in March twenty twenty one. But they also note due

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Speaker 3: to the shame and stigma around this issue, the.

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Speaker 4: Numbers are most likely low.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm thinking it's going to be very underreported because

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Speaker 3: they don't want to talk about how they had gotten

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Speaker 3: scammed for being lonely. If that's the case, which is

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Speaker 3: not the case all the time. It's just really got

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Speaker 3: caught up with whoever you thought would be your dream person.

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Speaker 2: Hm. And you know, now that I'm thinking about this,

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Speaker 2: I want to know if this is a real thing, listeners.

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Speaker 2: I think I talked about it in a recent episode,

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Speaker 2: but there's a fan fiction I was reading about hiring

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Speaker 2: a fake someone to pretend to be your significant partner

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Speaker 2: during the holiday, specifically so your family wouldn't ask you

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Speaker 2: any questions.

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Speaker 3: I mean, all we talk about escorts because I know

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Speaker 3: there are actual escorts who can be a service and

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Speaker 3: are legal because it's not part of sex work, which

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00:20:57,240 --> 00:20:59,119
Speaker 3: we're not saying is a bad thing anyway. But I

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00:20:59,160 --> 00:21:03,480
Speaker 3: know that that has a big stipulation within the federal laws,

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Speaker 3: especially like if it's in magazines and such like. There's

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Speaker 3: a lot of things, but I think there's escort services

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00:21:08,160 --> 00:21:10,600
Speaker 3: in essentially saying we will escort, we will be a

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Speaker 3: partner for you physically, not necessarily sexually.

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Speaker 4: I feel like those yeah, that might be along those lines.

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Speaker 2: Interesting. I believe in this fan fiction it was a

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00:21:21,119 --> 00:21:29,159
Speaker 2: Craigslist ad but mensic and women. Yeah, well future a

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00:21:29,200 --> 00:21:33,240
Speaker 2: little bitlist is a little bit, a little bit more

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00:21:33,320 --> 00:21:36,920
Speaker 2: like that's going to be a murderer. Be careful, well

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Speaker 2: this is I mean, I guess you could get caught

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00:21:38,760 --> 00:21:40,760
Speaker 2: up in That would have been the dark ending of

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00:21:40,800 --> 00:21:42,879
Speaker 2: that story, because in it, of course they actually do

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Speaker 2: fall in love, but the dark end would have been

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Speaker 2: it's a scam all along bt doves.

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Speaker 3: I just saw that Netflix has a tender. It's called

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Speaker 3: Tender something I've already forgotten. I'm sure our listeners are

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Speaker 3: going to know, you know, about a serial killer I

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Speaker 3: think who met people through online dating.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that's when I was researching this. That popped up

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Speaker 1: and I was like, well, wow, okay.

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Speaker 2: Slightly different, but okay, yes, yeah, So back to some numbers.

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Speaker 2: According to the Irish Times quote in twenty nineteen, about

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Speaker 2: four hundred thousand euros was lost by love sick Irish people.

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Speaker 2: With the country in lockdown for much of twenty twenty,

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00:22:15,240 --> 00:22:17,879
Speaker 2: and people isolated it more lonely than before, that figure

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00:22:18,080 --> 00:22:22,400
Speaker 2: jumped to more than one million euros. Again, that's only

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00:22:22,440 --> 00:22:25,560
Speaker 2: what was reported. It's become such an issue that some

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00:22:25,640 --> 00:22:29,040
Speaker 2: money sending agencies like Western Union are now looking for

435
00:22:29,080 --> 00:22:31,479
Speaker 2: instances of frauds since they can be held liable. I

436
00:22:31,520 --> 00:22:33,600
Speaker 2: personally think they should have been doing that all at all.

437
00:22:33,760 --> 00:22:37,919
Speaker 2: But and I know we've made this point already, but

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Speaker 2: I just want to drive it home. It's really cruel.

439
00:22:41,280 --> 00:22:43,639
Speaker 2: This whole thing is really cruol. It's really manipulative. A

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Speaker 2: lot of times it weaponizes empathy. I read so many

441
00:22:47,640 --> 00:22:50,320
Speaker 2: accounts from people who had gone through this and lost

442
00:22:50,480 --> 00:22:55,080
Speaker 2: all of their money and felt just so terrible and

443
00:22:55,160 --> 00:23:01,639
Speaker 2: ashamed by it. And like one example, the scammer and

444
00:23:01,720 --> 00:23:06,200
Speaker 2: told people that their daughter had died and they needed

445
00:23:06,240 --> 00:23:08,880
Speaker 2: help with the funeral, or that they were being held

446
00:23:08,920 --> 00:23:13,560
Speaker 2: hostage by loan sharks and tortured, like really intense, emotionally

447
00:23:13,640 --> 00:23:20,720
Speaker 2: manipulative things, and then after reporting over three five hundred

448
00:23:20,760 --> 00:23:23,960
Speaker 2: pounds of loss to a romantic scam, a target who

449
00:23:24,000 --> 00:23:26,640
Speaker 2: was interviewed named Anna, said, I had spent the year

450
00:23:26,720 --> 00:23:30,320
Speaker 2: completely unstable, trapped in this abusive cycle. I'd become obsessed

451
00:23:30,359 --> 00:23:32,919
Speaker 2: with preventing his pain. It felt like losing a husband

452
00:23:32,920 --> 00:23:36,000
Speaker 2: that I loved with every inch of my heart and soul.

453
00:23:36,400 --> 00:23:40,240
Speaker 2: I was never going to get any closure or say goodbye.

454
00:23:40,359 --> 00:23:43,959
Speaker 3: Ouch, you know, the whole being held hostage and all

455
00:23:44,000 --> 00:23:49,760
Speaker 3: that thing that really like, there's so many crime shows,

456
00:23:49,880 --> 00:23:52,280
Speaker 3: like entertaining crime shows. I don't mean like you know,

457
00:23:52,320 --> 00:23:54,919
Speaker 3: like SVU level of crime shows that I see that

458
00:23:55,000 --> 00:23:57,520
Speaker 3: on a wonder like does it really happen?

459
00:23:57,600 --> 00:23:59,920
Speaker 4: Has that really happened? Do we have cases on.

460
00:23:59,880 --> 00:24:03,639
Speaker 2: That oh worre like it's not a scam, it's actually

461
00:24:03,640 --> 00:24:09,400
Speaker 2: a thing. Yeah, I'm sure it has. I would imagine

462
00:24:09,440 --> 00:24:12,280
Speaker 2: it's very low number, right.

463
00:24:12,240 --> 00:24:15,439
Speaker 3: Well, because I know we've definitely seen cases and not

464
00:24:15,480 --> 00:24:18,000
Speaker 3: too many, but some cases where they have two families

465
00:24:18,040 --> 00:24:20,600
Speaker 3: and they have two different like the men tend to

466
00:24:20,640 --> 00:24:23,440
Speaker 3: be two different men, and it's always men who have

467
00:24:23,520 --> 00:24:27,000
Speaker 3: the families, of course, and like I've never seen any

468
00:24:27,040 --> 00:24:30,200
Speaker 3: cases where it's women. Leading double lives, and there could

469
00:24:30,200 --> 00:24:32,360
Speaker 3: be many reasons to that, but I've seen that that's

470
00:24:32,359 --> 00:24:33,720
Speaker 3: a whole different scam in itself.

471
00:24:34,240 --> 00:24:36,359
Speaker 4: Yeah, yep, having a second family.

472
00:24:36,920 --> 00:24:40,080
Speaker 3: So another woman said, I feel like I've been incredibly stupid,

473
00:24:40,119 --> 00:24:43,240
Speaker 3: but he was so convincing. I am heartbroken and unstable

474
00:24:43,240 --> 00:24:46,360
Speaker 3: to trust my own judgment. My confidence has been shattered.

475
00:24:46,680 --> 00:24:49,000
Speaker 3: I'm still lonely, but I don't know how I'll ever

476
00:24:49,080 --> 00:24:51,960
Speaker 3: be able to trust anyone again. As much as I

477
00:24:52,000 --> 00:24:54,000
Speaker 3: want to forget it, I can't. I struggle to get

478
00:24:54,000 --> 00:24:55,880
Speaker 3: out of bed to go to work, and there's been

479
00:24:55,920 --> 00:24:58,159
Speaker 3: many times I you want to end my life. I

480
00:24:58,240 --> 00:25:00,639
Speaker 3: can't understand how this has happened to me, and I

481
00:25:00,680 --> 00:25:02,520
Speaker 3: feel like there was a couple of cases where catfishing

482
00:25:03,160 --> 00:25:06,359
Speaker 3: has ended with someone dying by suicide.

483
00:25:07,000 --> 00:25:11,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I mean, I just that's why I really thought,

484
00:25:11,600 --> 00:25:13,640
Speaker 2: we really thought it was important to put this in here,

485
00:25:13,760 --> 00:25:16,119
Speaker 2: because I do feel like it's the butt of a

486
00:25:16,160 --> 00:25:18,760
Speaker 2: lot of jokes and we kind of assume whoever fell

487
00:25:18,840 --> 00:25:20,959
Speaker 2: for it must not be that bright.

488
00:25:21,680 --> 00:25:23,000
Speaker 1: But that's really just not the case.

489
00:25:23,000 --> 00:25:25,760
Speaker 2: And I my heart goes out to anybody who's gone

490
00:25:25,760 --> 00:25:28,960
Speaker 2: through this because I can't imagine believing like just because

491
00:25:29,000 --> 00:25:32,480
Speaker 2: it was a scam doesn't mean the emotions weren't real,

492
00:25:33,320 --> 00:25:37,920
Speaker 2: right and you didn't feel that way, And it's tragic

493
00:25:38,000 --> 00:25:43,560
Speaker 2: to me that somebody, I mean, everything is complex and nuance,

494
00:25:43,600 --> 00:25:46,879
Speaker 2: but it's tragic. But like that is getting played on

495
00:25:46,960 --> 00:25:49,520
Speaker 2: of that like willingness to love someone, which is already

496
00:25:49,520 --> 00:25:55,200
Speaker 2: pretty scary, exciting and scary as being turned into this

497
00:25:55,320 --> 00:25:58,920
Speaker 2: like painful thing where people feel like they can't trust

498
00:25:58,920 --> 00:26:01,760
Speaker 2: anybody again or they can't love again.

499
00:26:03,840 --> 00:26:04,119
Speaker 1: Sad.

500
00:26:18,080 --> 00:26:21,240
Speaker 2: When asked about this, trauma therapist Olivia James said many

501
00:26:21,280 --> 00:26:24,120
Speaker 2: of us have wounds around our age, appearance, and past

502
00:26:24,160 --> 00:26:27,000
Speaker 2: relationships that make us susceptible to someone promising love. It's

503
00:26:27,080 --> 00:26:29,560
Speaker 2: tempting to ignore doubts and see what we want to see.

504
00:26:29,800 --> 00:26:32,400
Speaker 2: Sometimes people have an inkling, but the fear of abandonment

505
00:26:32,560 --> 00:26:35,679
Speaker 2: is too much. Romance fraud is just a more extreme

506
00:26:35,800 --> 00:26:38,800
Speaker 2: version of something that lots of us have experienced. For

507
00:26:38,840 --> 00:26:41,920
Speaker 2: some people, there's an element of rescue fantasy too. If

508
00:26:41,920 --> 00:26:44,080
Speaker 2: they can help this person, they'll be able to live

509
00:26:44,119 --> 00:26:48,520
Speaker 2: out there happily. Ever after romance James went on to

510
00:26:48,600 --> 00:26:51,280
Speaker 2: also say that this type of crime can lead to PTSD,

511
00:26:51,680 --> 00:26:55,680
Speaker 2: long term mental health conditions, and financial instability. People feel

512
00:26:55,760 --> 00:27:00,320
Speaker 2: completely destabilized, they stop trusting themselves or anyone else. We

513
00:27:00,320 --> 00:27:02,879
Speaker 2: need connections with others, so being betrayed by someone you

514
00:27:02,960 --> 00:27:06,960
Speaker 2: thought was your soulmate is incredibly hard. She stresses too,

515
00:27:07,040 --> 00:27:09,720
Speaker 2: that the pressure to find the one can.

516
00:27:09,600 --> 00:27:12,399
Speaker 3: Make all of this worse, Right, That's what I was thinking, Like,

517
00:27:12,440 --> 00:27:15,480
Speaker 3: we've been taught so often that we need a mate,

518
00:27:16,119 --> 00:27:19,639
Speaker 3: that we need that one other that complete us, and

519
00:27:19,680 --> 00:27:22,080
Speaker 3: that especially for women, that this we are not ever

520
00:27:22,160 --> 00:27:25,080
Speaker 3: going to be whole unless we are in a couple,

521
00:27:25,640 --> 00:27:27,720
Speaker 3: in a family, and that we are the head, the

522
00:27:27,720 --> 00:27:30,159
Speaker 3: mother of the household. So there's definitely a layer of

523
00:27:30,200 --> 00:27:33,439
Speaker 3: social implications to this as well, and the pressures for

524
00:27:33,640 --> 00:27:37,080
Speaker 3: many of people and trying to find that perfect romance

525
00:27:37,320 --> 00:27:39,399
Speaker 3: and being told that was our value to begin with.

526
00:27:40,080 --> 00:27:41,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, exactly.

527
00:27:41,720 --> 00:27:43,840
Speaker 2: And I think especially for women when it comes to

528
00:27:44,480 --> 00:27:46,600
Speaker 2: and I hate this is true, but we all have

529
00:27:47,080 --> 00:27:50,160
Speaker 2: a relative or somebody as told as or your biological

530
00:27:50,160 --> 00:27:54,520
Speaker 2: clock is sticking right, So it's like men don't have

531
00:27:54,560 --> 00:27:57,760
Speaker 2: the same pressure of like the age bearing down on

532
00:27:57,800 --> 00:27:59,760
Speaker 2: them that women do, where we're like, oh, I have

533
00:27:59,840 --> 00:28:03,120
Speaker 2: to by this age or no one would ever want

534
00:28:03,160 --> 00:28:05,479
Speaker 2: to be with me. And that makes me mad too,

535
00:28:05,520 --> 00:28:08,399
Speaker 2: because I feel like it's weaponizing, like if a woman

536
00:28:08,680 --> 00:28:11,040
Speaker 2: in this case feels like, oh I might never find

537
00:28:11,040 --> 00:28:15,600
Speaker 2: anybody I'm older and someone is reaching out, like it's

538
00:28:15,680 --> 00:28:17,600
Speaker 2: playing on that vulnerability too.

539
00:28:17,840 --> 00:28:20,560
Speaker 1: Of right, well, well, like I hate it.

540
00:28:20,600 --> 00:28:22,160
Speaker 2: I hate it, but I think some people find their

541
00:28:22,240 --> 00:28:26,560
Speaker 2: worth in that, like worth in people being interested in them, right,

542
00:28:26,600 --> 00:28:29,239
Speaker 2: which again, yes we're taught that, but yeah, it just

543
00:28:29,280 --> 00:28:29,600
Speaker 2: makes me.

544
00:28:30,280 --> 00:28:31,040
Speaker 1: It makes me mad.

545
00:28:31,680 --> 00:28:33,280
Speaker 4: Well, I mean, that's one of the bigod things. I

546
00:28:33,359 --> 00:28:33,760
Speaker 4: don't know.

547
00:28:33,800 --> 00:28:36,160
Speaker 3: Maybe it's the world I'm traveling in and so therefore

548
00:28:36,240 --> 00:28:38,200
Speaker 3: men are being called out, So that's what I'm seeing.

549
00:28:38,520 --> 00:28:40,840
Speaker 3: But as of late, there's been an upsurch from what

550
00:28:40,960 --> 00:28:44,440
Speaker 3: I've been viewing on men calling out women and saying that, hey,

551
00:28:44,720 --> 00:28:46,520
Speaker 3: you need to know your worth and your worth goes

552
00:28:46,640 --> 00:28:48,640
Speaker 3: down when you get older. You need to know that

553
00:28:48,680 --> 00:28:50,920
Speaker 3: you're not as valuable because you've had children, or you're

554
00:28:50,920 --> 00:28:53,440
Speaker 3: not as lovable because you've gained weight, or like.

555
00:28:53,360 --> 00:28:54,080
Speaker 4: All of these things.

556
00:28:54,240 --> 00:28:57,080
Speaker 3: And I've seen that narrative being used a lot, especially

557
00:28:57,120 --> 00:28:59,080
Speaker 3: in the podcasting world, whereas all men and I want

558
00:28:59,120 --> 00:28:59,840
Speaker 3: to punch them in their.

559
00:28:59,720 --> 00:29:00,760
Speaker 4: Decks as they deserve it.

560
00:29:01,120 --> 00:29:03,840
Speaker 3: But that's been a thing that's been coming out and

561
00:29:03,920 --> 00:29:05,840
Speaker 3: during this time of people talking about trying to be

562
00:29:05,880 --> 00:29:09,440
Speaker 3: more feminists, the way that they rage back and say no,

563
00:29:09,640 --> 00:29:11,600
Speaker 3: you need to be put back into your place is

564
00:29:11,720 --> 00:29:15,360
Speaker 3: using age, using being single, or using having children and

565
00:29:15,400 --> 00:29:18,320
Speaker 3: fat shaming as a way to weaponize against women to

566
00:29:18,360 --> 00:29:20,560
Speaker 3: say that you're not of value if you're not here,

567
00:29:20,760 --> 00:29:24,240
Speaker 3: and so what you get is what you deserve, whether

568
00:29:24,320 --> 00:29:26,160
Speaker 3: it is actually what we deserve, because we deserve a

569
00:29:26,160 --> 00:29:28,800
Speaker 3: lot more than what they are saying obviously, right, that

570
00:29:28,840 --> 00:29:30,480
Speaker 3: was a little bit cyclical on that one.

571
00:29:31,040 --> 00:29:34,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, you should be so lucky to get my attention, right.

572
00:29:34,480 --> 00:29:36,880
Speaker 3: And that's this level of like women, if you really

573
00:29:36,920 --> 00:29:40,000
Speaker 3: want to be seen as the perfect queen, which that's

574
00:29:40,080 --> 00:29:42,040
Speaker 3: been a push back too, because women are actually coming

575
00:29:42,040 --> 00:29:44,840
Speaker 3: to the point of valuing themselves and so a lot

576
00:29:44,960 --> 00:29:49,480
Speaker 3: of the misogynistic, patriarchal people who have been thriving in

577
00:29:49,600 --> 00:29:52,240
Speaker 3: that life are pissed, and so this is how they're

578
00:29:52,280 --> 00:29:54,880
Speaker 3: pushing back because that's the only thing they know and

579
00:29:55,040 --> 00:29:57,160
Speaker 3: has been used for so long that this is what

580
00:29:57,160 --> 00:29:58,960
Speaker 3: they've gotten in their back pocket. And I feel like

581
00:29:59,040 --> 00:30:03,640
Speaker 3: this absolutely totally pushes this narrative to having victims like

582
00:30:03,680 --> 00:30:06,000
Speaker 3: this and having people who have gone through this, and

583
00:30:06,240 --> 00:30:09,400
Speaker 3: also changes the narrative of it's their fault because they

584
00:30:09,440 --> 00:30:10,760
Speaker 3: weren't smart enough to see that they're.

585
00:30:10,600 --> 00:30:11,280
Speaker 4: Not worth it.

586
00:30:11,320 --> 00:30:14,800
Speaker 3: And it's such a big pile that has been handed

587
00:30:14,800 --> 00:30:16,840
Speaker 3: to us and continues to be handed to us. And

588
00:30:16,800 --> 00:30:18,320
Speaker 3: I don't want to punch people in the dicks, like

589
00:30:18,360 --> 00:30:22,560
Speaker 3: I said, but anyway, so it's important to note also

590
00:30:22,680 --> 00:30:26,280
Speaker 3: while most romance scams these days are online.

591
00:30:26,000 --> 00:30:29,880
Speaker 4: They can and do happen in person and oftentimes on phone.

592
00:30:29,880 --> 00:30:31,840
Speaker 3: So I've seen that, like they are going to land

593
00:30:31,880 --> 00:30:34,520
Speaker 3: lines and using that as a way it's scamming as well.

594
00:30:35,280 --> 00:30:39,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, And we do a lot of

595
00:30:39,680 --> 00:30:43,000
Speaker 2: the articles we found researching this were about prevention, and

596
00:30:43,040 --> 00:30:46,720
Speaker 2: it was very That's what kind of gave me at

597
00:30:46,800 --> 00:30:49,000
Speaker 2: least the scope or the problem of the size of it,

598
00:30:49,040 --> 00:30:51,320
Speaker 2: because like every state in the United States had one,

599
00:30:51,400 --> 00:30:54,120
Speaker 2: like the FBI has their main one, and then like

600
00:30:54,160 --> 00:30:57,120
Speaker 2: every state as one and countries have them. Or here's

601
00:30:57,160 --> 00:30:59,000
Speaker 2: how to avoid it, here's how to recognize it. But

602
00:30:59,040 --> 00:31:02,280
Speaker 2: we did want to share some of those with you.

603
00:31:02,680 --> 00:31:05,080
Speaker 3: Right, so if someone you've met online needs your bank

604
00:31:05,120 --> 00:31:08,160
Speaker 3: account to deposit money, that's a big red flag. Then

605
00:31:08,160 --> 00:31:11,280
Speaker 3: there's a high chance of using it for nefarious activities.

606
00:31:11,480 --> 00:31:13,640
Speaker 3: As a reminder, also, I think there was a big

607
00:31:13,680 --> 00:31:17,800
Speaker 3: conversation about like things like Venmo and any of those.

608
00:31:17,600 --> 00:31:18,520
Speaker 4: Little cash apps.

609
00:31:18,800 --> 00:31:22,720
Speaker 3: I believe cash app maybe a little more safe than

610
00:31:22,800 --> 00:31:24,960
Speaker 3: Venmo and PayPal. I'm not for sure that there's this

611
00:31:25,160 --> 00:31:28,360
Speaker 3: debate about it and who uses what, but I know

612
00:31:28,480 --> 00:31:30,960
Speaker 3: Venmo has been criticized because that's linked to your bank

613
00:31:30,960 --> 00:31:33,360
Speaker 3: account and a lot of people have been using it

614
00:31:33,400 --> 00:31:35,520
Speaker 3: to get money from them and then like linking in

615
00:31:35,880 --> 00:31:38,600
Speaker 3: and thinking that this is for you know, oh my right.

616
00:31:38,640 --> 00:31:40,920
Speaker 4: Boo needs this for gas. But there's a lot of

617
00:31:40,920 --> 00:31:41,560
Speaker 4: things to that.

618
00:31:41,520 --> 00:31:44,840
Speaker 2: Too, right, Yeah, I mean that's another episode we've done

619
00:31:44,880 --> 00:31:47,040
Speaker 2: in the past of like financial abuse, and that's also

620
00:31:47,080 --> 00:31:50,600
Speaker 2: a piece of this. But yeah, the FBI has a

621
00:31:50,600 --> 00:31:53,880
Speaker 2: few tips on how to avoid becoming a victim to

622
00:31:53,960 --> 00:31:57,560
Speaker 2: your romance scam, so be mindful of what you post online.

623
00:31:57,600 --> 00:32:01,080
Speaker 2: Scammers can take this information to manipulate you privatize all

624
00:32:01,080 --> 00:32:03,600
Speaker 2: your settings. I know this isn't really related, but I

625
00:32:03,680 --> 00:32:06,000
Speaker 2: just went through because I saw I saw an article

626
00:32:06,000 --> 00:32:07,840
Speaker 2: about how like your TV is spying on you.

627
00:32:09,080 --> 00:32:14,080
Speaker 1: And I went through and made.

628
00:32:12,760 --> 00:32:17,440
Speaker 3: Well, I have my Alexa here yea and they the

629
00:32:17,520 --> 00:32:20,000
Speaker 3: newer versions have actually cameras on it, and I had

630
00:32:20,000 --> 00:32:21,920
Speaker 3: to turn that off because I was like, what is this?

631
00:32:22,840 --> 00:32:25,160
Speaker 3: As well as the sidewalk sharing and apparently you can

632
00:32:25,200 --> 00:32:26,960
Speaker 3: just people passing by can get on it somehow, and

633
00:32:27,000 --> 00:32:28,040
Speaker 3: I'm like, why would I want this?

634
00:32:28,480 --> 00:32:31,080
Speaker 4: And that's a feature they were very proud of. Still confused,

635
00:32:31,120 --> 00:32:32,080
Speaker 4: but why I would want that?

636
00:32:32,600 --> 00:32:36,240
Speaker 3: By Samsung Watch that I know that has a lot

637
00:32:36,280 --> 00:32:38,760
Speaker 3: to like not necessarily video, but like it can still

638
00:32:38,800 --> 00:32:41,200
Speaker 3: link to my bank accounts, it got, it's got. You

639
00:32:41,240 --> 00:32:42,800
Speaker 3: can put a card on here if I wanted to

640
00:32:42,800 --> 00:32:44,440
Speaker 3: to pay with it, I know that could be a

641
00:32:44,520 --> 00:32:45,200
Speaker 3: link to it too.

642
00:32:45,240 --> 00:32:46,960
Speaker 4: But yeah, really weird.

643
00:32:47,520 --> 00:32:48,520
Speaker 1: Yeah that's what we are.

644
00:32:49,200 --> 00:32:53,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, so try to There's plenty of articles about like

645
00:32:53,520 --> 00:32:55,680
Speaker 2: if you here's what you need to do on your phone,

646
00:32:55,800 --> 00:32:58,800
Speaker 2: your TV, like everything, So look that up, do your research,

647
00:32:59,080 --> 00:33:01,640
Speaker 2: see if the person in question has any as an

648
00:33:01,640 --> 00:33:06,440
Speaker 2: online presence. Search the picture, the name, the bio, and

649
00:33:06,480 --> 00:33:09,040
Speaker 2: I know that feels kind of cyberstockery, but it's.

650
00:33:08,960 --> 00:33:10,520
Speaker 1: Kind of the unfortunate reality.

651
00:33:10,520 --> 00:33:12,320
Speaker 2: And I think a lot of us do that when

652
00:33:12,360 --> 00:33:16,040
Speaker 2: we're online dating anyway, especially women, because we've just been told, yeah,

653
00:33:16,040 --> 00:33:16,880
Speaker 2: you might be murdered.

654
00:33:16,960 --> 00:33:17,280
Speaker 1: Yeah.

655
00:33:17,440 --> 00:33:20,880
Speaker 2: Remember images can be super imposed over faces and video calls,

656
00:33:21,120 --> 00:33:24,080
Speaker 2: so sometimes you will actually have a video call somebody

657
00:33:24,120 --> 00:33:27,800
Speaker 2: and it's not actually their face. Also, remember that many

658
00:33:27,840 --> 00:33:30,600
Speaker 2: scammers work as a team. As they introduce you to

659
00:33:30,840 --> 00:33:35,320
Speaker 2: their friends, the friends are in on it too, so right,

660
00:33:35,400 --> 00:33:37,720
Speaker 2: that's also unfortunate because I always felt like, oh, here

661
00:33:37,720 --> 00:33:38,360
Speaker 2: are the friends.

662
00:33:38,440 --> 00:33:40,880
Speaker 4: But yeah, yeah, that was almost a tell tell.

663
00:33:41,040 --> 00:33:42,600
Speaker 3: But to be fair, I'd also be like, Okay, you

664
00:33:42,600 --> 00:33:45,000
Speaker 3: can tell a lot by other friends, and if they're shady,

665
00:33:45,480 --> 00:33:49,200
Speaker 3: they are probably shady. So asking questions and be cautious,

666
00:33:49,240 --> 00:33:51,320
Speaker 3: that's always good. Don't rush into anything and don't let

667
00:33:51,400 --> 00:33:53,120
Speaker 3: yourself be rushed. And I do want to do a

668
00:33:53,120 --> 00:33:56,160
Speaker 3: future episode about love bombing because that's also one of

669
00:33:56,200 --> 00:33:57,840
Speaker 3: the big signs that we need to talk about.

670
00:33:57,880 --> 00:33:58,800
Speaker 4: But like why why you?

671
00:33:58,840 --> 00:34:02,320
Speaker 3: And this, yeah, going into if something's too good to

672
00:34:02,320 --> 00:34:04,760
Speaker 3: be true, it probably is. If someone pressures you to

673
00:34:04,880 --> 00:34:07,320
Speaker 3: leaving a dating app or social media app soon after

674
00:34:07,360 --> 00:34:11,239
Speaker 3: contact in order to communicate directly, be wary if they

675
00:34:11,280 --> 00:34:13,759
Speaker 3: shower you with I guess a lot of affection of

676
00:34:13,800 --> 00:34:15,080
Speaker 3: emotion very quickly.

677
00:34:15,160 --> 00:34:15,520
Speaker 4: Be worried.

678
00:34:15,520 --> 00:34:17,480
Speaker 3: This is called love bombing. Like I said, I do

679
00:34:17,560 --> 00:34:19,600
Speaker 3: want to come back to it and the basis of

680
00:34:19,640 --> 00:34:22,759
Speaker 3: this because I was like what, Because it seems to

681
00:34:22,840 --> 00:34:25,400
Speaker 3: be linked to a lot of abusive relationships in general?

682
00:34:25,960 --> 00:34:27,799
Speaker 1: Yes, yes, absolutely.

683
00:34:28,520 --> 00:34:30,840
Speaker 2: Also be wary if the individual tries to isolate you

684
00:34:30,880 --> 00:34:33,280
Speaker 2: from your support group, or if they ask for inappropriate

685
00:34:33,320 --> 00:34:36,480
Speaker 2: photos or financial information that could be used to blackmail you.

686
00:34:36,960 --> 00:34:40,520
Speaker 2: If promises of meeting in person are repeatedly broken, ask

687
00:34:40,640 --> 00:34:44,439
Speaker 2: why don't send money to anyone you've only interacted with online,

688
00:34:44,640 --> 00:34:47,560
Speaker 2: even if you made first contact. Do not let your

689
00:34:47,560 --> 00:34:51,360
Speaker 2: guard down if they are overly flirtatious or complimentary, or

690
00:34:51,360 --> 00:34:54,319
Speaker 2: if your picture looks like that of a model.

691
00:34:54,640 --> 00:34:55,960
Speaker 1: Ask questions.

692
00:34:57,080 --> 00:34:59,400
Speaker 2: If you suspect you are the target of a romance

693
00:34:59,440 --> 00:35:02,919
Speaker 2: scam starts, have a few tips. Stop communicating with the person.

694
00:35:02,960 --> 00:35:06,920
Speaker 2: Immediately talk to somebody you trust about your concerns.

695
00:35:07,440 --> 00:35:11,200
Speaker 3: Do a search with job titled like US Army scammer

696
00:35:11,400 --> 00:35:13,480
Speaker 3: or oil rig scammer to see if other people have

697
00:35:13,520 --> 00:35:16,720
Speaker 3: similar stories. Search the profile of this picture too, Google

698
00:35:16,760 --> 00:35:19,600
Speaker 3: is your friend on this? I will google everyone.

699
00:35:19,880 --> 00:35:20,760
Speaker 4: As a social worker.

700
00:35:20,760 --> 00:35:21,800
Speaker 3: I came close to be like, I need to do

701
00:35:21,840 --> 00:35:24,000
Speaker 3: a psychological evaluation on all my dates.

702
00:35:24,400 --> 00:35:24,759
Speaker 1: I kind of.

703
00:35:25,000 --> 00:35:28,040
Speaker 3: Anyway, if you are sent money or a gift card,

704
00:35:28,120 --> 00:35:30,360
Speaker 3: you can report it. You can also report scams to

705
00:35:30,400 --> 00:35:33,000
Speaker 3: the FTC here in the US, I do know with

706
00:35:33,120 --> 00:35:36,560
Speaker 3: a crypto and NFT. It's only become recent that federal

707
00:35:36,880 --> 00:35:40,000
Speaker 3: investigators have come involved because of the scamming.

708
00:35:40,200 --> 00:35:41,399
Speaker 4: There was a huge one we.

709
00:35:41,360 --> 00:35:43,160
Speaker 3: Didn't talk about because it was led by a dude

710
00:35:43,880 --> 00:35:47,080
Speaker 3: who scammed a giant network of people, got millions and

711
00:35:47,120 --> 00:35:49,959
Speaker 3: then like did a pseudonym and no one could catch them.

712
00:35:50,400 --> 00:35:53,600
Speaker 3: Really really funky. And then there are support groups and

713
00:35:53,640 --> 00:35:56,919
Speaker 3: resources out there that you can get onto, and I'm

714
00:35:56,920 --> 00:36:00,000
Speaker 3: betting there's a lot of group of women who understand

715
00:36:00,080 --> 00:36:02,799
Speaker 3: and this and what has happened to them.

716
00:36:03,200 --> 00:36:08,359
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, absolutely, it's I know there's a lot of

717
00:36:08,440 --> 00:36:12,279
Speaker 2: isolating and shame around it, but there are resources out

718
00:36:12,320 --> 00:36:14,920
Speaker 2: there that are great, and there are people who are

719
00:36:14,960 --> 00:36:17,520
Speaker 2: open with their stories. And I always feel like we

720
00:36:17,560 --> 00:36:20,200
Speaker 2: say this and it makes me sad to know that

721
00:36:20,280 --> 00:36:22,040
Speaker 2: there are so many that have experienced this, but I'm

722
00:36:22,040 --> 00:36:26,160
Speaker 2: glad that there's support happening right with people who have

723
00:36:26,239 --> 00:36:30,040
Speaker 2: experienced it. And also this is kind of outside the

724
00:36:30,080 --> 00:36:32,799
Speaker 2: scope of this episode.

725
00:36:33,360 --> 00:36:34,240
Speaker 1: This whole cycles.

726
00:36:34,760 --> 00:36:38,040
Speaker 2: It's very complicated and nuanced and like who is doing

727
00:36:38,040 --> 00:36:40,880
Speaker 2: the scamming and why they are doing the scamming, and

728
00:36:40,920 --> 00:36:45,200
Speaker 2: it's worth discussing that part of this piece as well.

729
00:36:45,680 --> 00:36:52,200
Speaker 2: But yeah, that's outside of this this episode for now.

730
00:36:52,600 --> 00:36:59,040
Speaker 1: But with that said, if you are happy val I

731
00:36:59,080 --> 00:36:59,440
Speaker 1: don't know.

732
00:37:01,239 --> 00:37:04,640
Speaker 4: Anti happy anti Valentine's Day.

733
00:37:04,600 --> 00:37:10,920
Speaker 2: Everyone, Yeah, stay safe online, uh, and we love you.

734
00:37:11,200 --> 00:37:13,239
Speaker 1: We love you, It's true and we.

735
00:37:13,239 --> 00:37:15,640
Speaker 2: Also love hearing from you. So if you would like

736
00:37:15,680 --> 00:37:18,120
Speaker 2: to contact us, you can. You can email us a

737
00:37:18,120 --> 00:37:20,719
Speaker 2: stephanda mom Steph at iHeartMedia dot com. You can find

738
00:37:20,760 --> 00:37:22,840
Speaker 2: us on Twitter at mom Stuff podcast or on Instagram

739
00:37:22,880 --> 00:37:23,839
Speaker 2: at Stuff I've Never Told You.

740
00:37:23,920 --> 00:37:25,759
Speaker 1: Thanks. It's always to our super producer.

741
00:37:25,520 --> 00:37:28,360
Speaker 4: Christina, so much love to you.

742
00:37:28,960 --> 00:37:32,040
Speaker 2: Yes, and thanks to you for listening, Steph, I Never

743
00:37:32,040 --> 00:37:33,880
Speaker 2: told you. The protection of iHeart Radio. For more podcasts

744
00:37:33,880 --> 00:37:35,520
Speaker 2: from my heart Radio, is it the heart radio app,

745
00:37:35,560 --> 00:37:37,800
Speaker 2: Apple podcast, or wherever you listen to favorite shows