WEBVTT - Ride to the Bottom 0:00:11.720 --> 0:00:14.520 Good morning, peeps, and welcome to ok F Daily with 0:00:14.640 --> 0:00:19.239 Meet your Girl, Danielle Moody, recording from the Home Bunker. Folks. 0:00:19.760 --> 0:00:24.480 Happy Monday to all of you, and I hope that 0:00:25.040 --> 0:00:29.080 again everyone had a very good weekend, got some rest, 0:00:29.720 --> 0:00:34.440 had some reflection, got outdoors. I wanted to share something 0:00:34.880 --> 0:00:37.440 with all of you today, which is that at the 0:00:37.560 --> 0:00:42.120 end of last week, I had the really wonderful honor 0:00:42.440 --> 0:00:49.040 of being honored by my former high school. And I 0:00:49.200 --> 0:00:53.400 was so taken aback when I got an email asking 0:00:53.560 --> 0:00:57.760 if I would be interested in coming in prior to 0:00:57.800 --> 0:01:01.800 being entered into my former high school's Hall of Honors, 0:01:02.520 --> 0:01:06.319 which is for non athletes who the Hall of Famous 0:01:06.319 --> 0:01:08.679 for athletes, and the Hall of Honor is for people 0:01:09.080 --> 0:01:14.640 who have achieved I guess, made accomplishments, made waves in 0:01:15.040 --> 0:01:19.319 their chosen field. And I was so taken aback one 0:01:19.480 --> 0:01:24.399 because when I was going to school, I was one 0:01:24.440 --> 0:01:29.080 of a handful of black students. At the time, I 0:01:29.200 --> 0:01:32.240 was not out. I wouldn't come out for probably several 0:01:32.319 --> 0:01:38.040 years when I would graduate from college. And to think 0:01:38.120 --> 0:01:41.639 that I graduated with a graduating class of eleven hundred 0:01:41.680 --> 0:01:45.640 and three, I was one of like twenty black kids 0:01:45.720 --> 0:01:50.040 and kids of color in my graduating class. And while 0:01:50.120 --> 0:01:52.480 I had an amazing high school experience, I say all 0:01:52.520 --> 0:01:56.440 that not to then tell a sob story about my 0:01:56.520 --> 0:02:00.440 high school experience. Thankfully, I had really amazing teachers. I 0:02:00.480 --> 0:02:03.520 did have incidents of race that I have written about racism, 0:02:03.920 --> 0:02:06.040 that I have written about being called the N word 0:02:06.240 --> 0:02:12.359 in my eleventh grade honors English class and subsequently cursing 0:02:12.400 --> 0:02:15.600 that young man out and him being shunned for the 0:02:15.639 --> 0:02:19.680 rest of the year, you know, good times. But aside 0:02:19.680 --> 0:02:23.280 from that, I had a remarkable experience. And why was that. 0:02:23.400 --> 0:02:26.560 It was largely due to the amazing teachers in my 0:02:26.720 --> 0:02:33.640 school who never made me feel other who encourage my 0:02:33.760 --> 0:02:40.079 pursuits and engaged me in you know, debates and questions 0:02:40.120 --> 0:02:45.680 about our society and culture and racism. And I never 0:02:45.800 --> 0:02:49.880 felt like I was marginalized in any type of way. 0:02:50.040 --> 0:02:52.359 And that's what good teachers and a good school is 0:02:52.400 --> 0:02:55.840 supposed to do. And I say this as I'm reflecting 0:02:55.880 --> 0:02:59.280 on the experience of being honored by my high school 0:03:00.160 --> 0:03:04.720 and thinking about what Ron de Santis and Greg Abbott 0:03:04.840 --> 0:03:11.040 are doing to young people in their states, to young 0:03:11.240 --> 0:03:15.120 black and brown people, to young queer people to young 0:03:15.160 --> 0:03:19.839 people who live at the intersections, and how they are 0:03:19.880 --> 0:03:24.760 creating a climate and an experience that is devastating to 0:03:24.840 --> 0:03:29.519 their development, that is going to be devastating to their psyche, 0:03:29.840 --> 0:03:32.360 to their sense of self, and to their ability to 0:03:32.560 --> 0:03:37.640 want to contribute to this society, to want to show 0:03:37.800 --> 0:03:41.200 up in their full selves and be able to make 0:03:41.240 --> 0:03:44.600 their stamp and make a difference, because right now they 0:03:44.680 --> 0:03:47.680 are living in states where they are being stomped out. 0:03:48.000 --> 0:03:50.680 Right where legislation at the end of the week that 0:03:50.800 --> 0:03:54.960 Ron DeSantis passed last week that would allow trans children 0:03:55.000 --> 0:03:59.960 to be taken from their loving homes, do we understand 0:04:00.080 --> 0:04:05.040 and the history of stripping people from marginalized communities of 0:04:05.120 --> 0:04:08.360 their families, of their children. I mean, this is something 0:04:08.360 --> 0:04:12.320 that America was born on, from the indigenous tribes of 0:04:12.320 --> 0:04:16.080 this nation to the enslaved black people that were forced 0:04:16.080 --> 0:04:19.680 to come here, right, So, it is nothing new. It 0:04:19.720 --> 0:04:24.560 has always been a tool of the oppressor to break 0:04:24.640 --> 0:04:28.960 apart families, right because families are supposed to be our 0:04:29.080 --> 0:04:32.520 foundation and the place that we draw our strength from. 0:04:32.760 --> 0:04:36.400 So in order to weaken the queer community, in order 0:04:36.480 --> 0:04:40.760 to disempower and to erase us, their desire is to 0:04:40.960 --> 0:04:45.880 strip families that are accepting of their children, that are 0:04:46.000 --> 0:04:49.680 loving of their children, of their parental rights. Can you 0:04:49.720 --> 0:04:53.479 think about anything more heinous to do in the twenty 0:04:53.480 --> 0:04:58.359 first century after centuries of what we have seen and 0:04:58.400 --> 0:05:02.120 what we have learned from the abusive practices, And frankly, 0:05:02.320 --> 0:05:07.880 you know, the Trump administration did that right with undocumented 0:05:07.920 --> 0:05:11.120 people trying to find safe haven in the United States. 0:05:11.160 --> 0:05:14.920 It is always, always been a tool of the oppressor. 0:05:15.520 --> 0:05:18.800 And I bring that up to say that our children, 0:05:19.240 --> 0:05:23.360 whether or not you birth children, adopt children, foster children, 0:05:23.680 --> 0:05:26.760 teach children, care for them in any type of way, 0:05:27.160 --> 0:05:33.799 are our collective responsibility, right, They are our collective responsibility. 0:05:33.880 --> 0:05:38.360 If we want to see a society that is accepting, 0:05:39.000 --> 0:05:43.320 that is safe, that is progressive, right, where laws are 0:05:43.360 --> 0:05:48.279 created that are about adding people to the table, not 0:05:48.640 --> 0:05:54.240 separating them, then we have to invest in our young people. 0:05:54.880 --> 0:05:57.679 We have to give them safe space and safe harbor 0:05:58.440 --> 0:06:02.600 to grow their voices right so that they can lift 0:06:02.680 --> 0:06:07.680 them for progress. And so when you see these heinous 0:06:07.720 --> 0:06:12.680 acts that are happening across the country, I implore you, 0:06:13.040 --> 0:06:18.040 I implore you to find your local p flag organizations, 0:06:18.080 --> 0:06:21.479 parents and friends of lesbians and gays to go to 0:06:21.680 --> 0:06:28.000 Glisten's website. Right to go to Family Equality, an organization 0:06:28.160 --> 0:06:31.200 that I have worked with over the last two years 0:06:31.200 --> 0:06:39.440 that is about empowering queer families. Please consider donations, consider volunteering, 0:06:40.040 --> 0:06:45.000 Consider calling the offices of these heinous legislators to tell 0:06:45.040 --> 0:06:49.440 them what they are doing to our society. It is 0:06:49.520 --> 0:06:53.000 important that we all in this moment lift our voices 0:06:53.200 --> 0:06:58.960 to protect all kids. Coming up next, my conversation with 0:06:59.240 --> 0:07:07.520 our good goodness friend, our in house doctor, doctor Jonathan Metzel. Folks. 0:07:07.640 --> 0:07:12.120 I am as always very excited when we get to 0:07:12.240 --> 0:07:16.040 chat with our in house doctor, doctor Jonathan Metzel. But 0:07:16.240 --> 0:07:22.960 more importantly, he's an award winner, because doctor Jonathan Metzel 0:07:23.640 --> 0:07:29.800 was awarded the Carlson Award from wild Cornell Medicine Department 0:07:29.840 --> 0:07:35.240 of Psychiatry in recognition of his important contributions to the 0:07:35.400 --> 0:07:40.559 history of psychiatry. So thank you award winner for making 0:07:40.600 --> 0:07:43.680 the time for us a little for us little people 0:07:43.760 --> 0:07:45.360 over at wok app. 0:07:45.800 --> 0:07:49.560 Yeah, well I'll squeeze you guys in no, I it was. 0:07:49.600 --> 0:07:51.880 It was lovely. Actually, it's nice when you get awards 0:07:51.920 --> 0:07:54.240 like this that aren't like the Oh my god, big 0:07:54.320 --> 0:07:57.000 name award that everybody's heard of it. Awards like this 0:07:57.080 --> 0:07:59.960 are nice because they're often This is an annual award 0:08:00.120 --> 0:08:04.480 given by in memory of a colleague, and they do 0:08:04.560 --> 0:08:07.160 it at New York Hospital, and so it was just 0:08:07.240 --> 0:08:09.200 nic It's nice to go. I got to give a 0:08:09.200 --> 0:08:11.760 big talk. The department came, they took me to this 0:08:11.880 --> 0:08:14.360 lovely lunch. I got this nice plaque. But it was 0:08:14.400 --> 0:08:18.080 also nice just to well first be recognized. I mean, 0:08:18.080 --> 0:08:20.760 there's some incredible people who won this award, but also 0:08:21.080 --> 0:08:24.680 to be able to kind of speak to somebody's memory, 0:08:24.680 --> 0:08:26.920 it's such a nice way to keep traditional alive. So 0:08:27.080 --> 0:08:27.400 thank you. 0:08:28.560 --> 0:08:31.440 Well, it's wonderful to see. And we can't think of 0:08:31.480 --> 0:08:38.240 a better person to be honored than you, Jonathan. You know, 0:08:39.360 --> 0:08:43.760 there's just I'm so disgusted these days. I mean, people 0:08:43.840 --> 0:08:46.920 know that I'm disgusted all the time, but I will 0:08:46.920 --> 0:08:52.400 tell you that I'm still kind of reeling from CNN's 0:08:52.440 --> 0:08:58.559 desire to continue to mainstream wide supremacy and anti semitism 0:08:58.960 --> 0:09:05.560 on their network, to continue the president. Chris Lickt just 0:09:05.600 --> 0:09:11.200 came out again because their ratings were not through the 0:09:11.280 --> 0:09:14.320 roof for Donald Trump, and you know, and they have 0:09:14.520 --> 0:09:18.560 faced a ton, a ton of backlash, so he's on 0:09:18.679 --> 0:09:22.040 the defensive saying that we need to show both sides 0:09:22.080 --> 0:09:26.120 of every issue. And Medie Hassan, who has a show 0:09:26.120 --> 0:09:29.480 on MSNBC and has been on this show and others, 0:09:30.760 --> 0:09:33.720 tweeted and said, really, we need to show the both 0:09:33.760 --> 0:09:39.520 sides of every issue. So climate deniers and election deniers 0:09:39.760 --> 0:09:45.120 and racism and injustice in this country, so everyone deserves 0:09:45.200 --> 0:09:47.920 both sides. And he said when, so, when does it end? 0:09:48.320 --> 0:09:52.040 And I wanted to get your thoughts on how media 0:09:52.840 --> 0:10:00.280 is just mainstreaming white supremacy, mainstreaming hatred in a way 0:10:00.720 --> 0:10:04.960 that I don't think it's ever done on this level. 0:10:05.040 --> 0:10:09.680 Because of the amount of technology, streaming, social media platforms 0:10:09.920 --> 0:10:12.200 and all of these things that allow you to access 0:10:12.200 --> 0:10:14.000 so many people so quickly. 0:10:16.080 --> 0:10:20.400 It's obviously not a surprise to anyone that media in 0:10:20.440 --> 0:10:24.480 this environment where so many media companies are going out 0:10:24.480 --> 0:10:28.440 of business. I mean, Vice just went under. I actually 0:10:28.480 --> 0:10:31.040 had a piece that was coming out in Vice. I 0:10:31.080 --> 0:10:35.080 did an interview with them about guns, and it didn't 0:10:35.120 --> 0:10:41.560 come out because the company is going under. And right 0:10:41.800 --> 0:10:45.959 is it what BuzzFeed? You name it? All these companies 0:10:45.960 --> 0:10:50.160 are firing, people are going under It's a horrible environment 0:10:50.280 --> 0:10:52.640 right now. Forgetting just the ethics for one second, which 0:10:52.720 --> 0:10:57.920 of course it's all about ethics, but companies are driven 0:10:58.000 --> 0:11:03.120 by revenue and click and views, which leads to advertisers. 0:11:03.679 --> 0:11:07.319 And in our world, we live in algorithms where conflict 0:11:07.559 --> 0:11:10.680 drives revenue, right, And so I guess that's the question 0:11:10.800 --> 0:11:13.480 is like where does that leave us? So I guess 0:11:13.520 --> 0:11:16.320 I'm not surprised that CNN has taking this turn, right. 0:11:16.480 --> 0:11:19.720 We knew it when when he was hired. That basically 0:11:19.720 --> 0:11:25.640 they're an entertainment company, and the entertainment company they need viewers, right, 0:11:25.760 --> 0:11:28.320 just like Twitter needs followers and et cetera, et cetera, 0:11:28.360 --> 0:11:30.400 et cetera. They're just they're trying to make money. They're 0:11:30.400 --> 0:11:33.520 not people any more than bud Light is a person. 0:11:34.360 --> 0:11:37.280 And so you know, it really is true. 0:11:37.840 --> 0:11:41.760 The Supreme Court say soon, but it is a person. 0:11:42.120 --> 0:11:44.160 So these these things are all just existing in this 0:11:44.280 --> 0:11:47.720 marketplace that is really cutthroat. And where the the you know, 0:11:47.760 --> 0:11:51.400 the the terrain right now is the more conflict you have. 0:11:51.520 --> 0:11:58.280 You know, Uh, politicians can never pass legislation in the world, 0:11:58.320 --> 0:12:00.560 but if they stand outside of Congress, and say racist 0:12:00.600 --> 0:12:04.439 stuff or get in fight with each other and it 0:12:04.480 --> 0:12:07.360 goes viral. That's what drives revenue. So our whole system 0:12:07.400 --> 0:12:11.440 is monetized right now, not to give one side what 0:12:11.520 --> 0:12:14.360 it agrees with, but to tweak one side then tweet 0:12:14.360 --> 0:12:16.640 the other side. That's just the world. That's what entertainment. 0:12:16.880 --> 0:12:19.079 That's how entertainment is mon sized. I wish we had 0:12:19.120 --> 0:12:23.640 different algorithms. I truly wish we had different algorithms. But 0:12:23.720 --> 0:12:26.000 I guess for me, the question is what do we 0:12:26.040 --> 0:12:31.400 do as liberals, Like what's our response? Because I don't know. 0:12:32.120 --> 0:12:33.959 I was again. I mean, I think what CNA did 0:12:34.040 --> 0:12:37.719 was horrible. They legitimized and platformed, and they're gonna, I'm sure, 0:12:37.760 --> 0:12:41.640 do it again. But the question is, like, you see 0:12:41.679 --> 0:12:45.240 all these people now boycotting CNN and a lot of 0:12:45.280 --> 0:12:50.080 people are boycotting Twitter obviously, And that's the question I 0:12:50.080 --> 0:12:54.000 want to ask you, Danielle, is boycotting the right response? 0:12:54.080 --> 0:12:57.720 Right now? Is boycotting the right response? Or are we 0:12:57.800 --> 0:13:01.040 deplatforming ourselves? I mean, that's really, honestly what I've run 0:13:01.040 --> 0:13:03.560 through my mind all the time. Because they're not enough 0:13:03.760 --> 0:13:08.120 people on liberal Twitter to sway elections that they are 0:13:08.160 --> 0:13:11.400 not enough liberals to make a difference. If we stop 0:13:11.440 --> 0:13:13.440 watching CNN, we're just going to hand it over and 0:13:13.440 --> 0:13:16.280 make it another Fox News, and Fox News is whatever. 0:13:16.360 --> 0:13:20.760 So I just I'm worried about the response of boycotting. 0:13:21.679 --> 0:13:24.760 It works sometimes, but if that's always our response, I 0:13:24.800 --> 0:13:27.920 just feel like we're lessening our voice as opposed to 0:13:29.720 --> 0:13:32.120 I don't know is everybody's choice, but what if every 0:13:32.160 --> 0:13:35.920 liberal person got a blue check and blasted on Twitter 0:13:35.960 --> 0:13:37.400 and fought back on it. I just feel like we've 0:13:37.400 --> 0:13:39.040 given over Twitter to these people. 0:13:40.360 --> 0:13:44.600 I don't think so. I think that boycotts are important. 0:13:44.720 --> 0:13:47.240 I think that we have seen how boycotts have worked 0:13:47.280 --> 0:13:52.200 throughout history to move this country to a more progressive place. 0:13:52.280 --> 0:13:55.680 You can look at the Montgomery bus boycott, and you 0:13:55.720 --> 0:13:59.800 can look at, you know, the airing out of Alec, 0:14:01.160 --> 0:14:06.320 the company that the organization, I'll say that created all 0:14:06.400 --> 0:14:10.640 of the anti homophobic, anti black legislation that we've seen, 0:14:10.920 --> 0:14:14.480 and people being able to be informed about what companies 0:14:14.880 --> 0:14:17.760 they are shopping with, what companies they are spending their 0:14:17.800 --> 0:14:20.520 money with, and who is taking their money by day 0:14:20.600 --> 0:14:22.640 and then voting against their rights at night. 0:14:23.040 --> 0:14:24.560 And so I think, let me let me ask you, 0:14:24.880 --> 0:14:27.800 because I'm not against boycotts at all. I'm for sure, 0:14:27.840 --> 0:14:31.760 I completely respect the history of boycott's. I think they're 0:14:31.760 --> 0:14:36.720 important tools, I think, but is the Montgomery boycott the 0:14:36.800 --> 0:14:43.400 same as people boycotting CNN, for example, or not engaging Twitter. 0:14:44.480 --> 0:14:47.360 It's not at all the same thing. But here's it, 0:14:47.600 --> 0:14:49.720 because I'm one of the people that have actually been 0:14:49.720 --> 0:14:52.640 calling for people to boycott CNN because I don't think 0:14:52.640 --> 0:14:55.480 that See I think that CNN, by virtue of the 0:14:55.520 --> 0:14:58.840 people that they are putting on air, are delegitimizing themselves. 0:14:59.280 --> 0:15:03.240 That they were once seen as the stalwart of cable news, 0:15:03.680 --> 0:15:07.040 and you have seen that erosion of that network since 0:15:07.080 --> 0:15:10.320 the Trump era in a very major way. They are 0:15:10.600 --> 0:15:14.480 you know, just recently what they gave Caitlyn Collins, the 0:15:14.520 --> 0:15:18.800 woman who interviewed Donald Trump the plum spot at nine PM, 0:15:19.280 --> 0:15:22.680 come to find out, which I did not know until recently. 0:15:23.040 --> 0:15:26.560 Caitlyn Collins got her start at The Daily Caller and 0:15:26.720 --> 0:15:31.240 was the entertainment reporter and has has espoused anti Semitism, 0:15:31.320 --> 0:15:36.160 has espoused racial bias, has espoused and written about all 0:15:36.200 --> 0:15:39.320 of these things. And now by virtue of the idea 0:15:39.360 --> 0:15:42.200 that CNN is still this mainstream, middle of the bar 0:15:42.400 --> 0:15:47.360 place is able to you know, whitewash herself right and 0:15:47.720 --> 0:15:50.400 her and so now it makes sense as to why 0:15:50.440 --> 0:15:53.720 Donald Trump chose her in the first place as somebody 0:15:53.760 --> 0:15:56.400 to sit down with. And so my feeling is, you 0:15:56.560 --> 0:16:01.000 do not have to continue to give eyes, eyeballs and 0:16:01.120 --> 0:16:04.880 Nielsen ratings to a network that is no longer a 0:16:05.000 --> 0:16:09.240 trusted entity and form of journalism. And I think that 0:16:09.440 --> 0:16:12.800 if CNN is out there deciding that they are no 0:16:12.840 --> 0:16:16.600 longer interested in expanding their base of people who want 0:16:16.640 --> 0:16:20.120 real news and instead want to chase Fox News, then 0:16:20.160 --> 0:16:24.680 why would we continue as viewers to reward them? Right Like, 0:16:24.720 --> 0:16:26.920 I think that at some at some point in time, 0:16:27.240 --> 0:16:30.560 the people of this country, with their dollars and their voice, 0:16:30.920 --> 0:16:33.440 need to say that we're not going to be along. 0:16:33.600 --> 0:16:36.760 We're not going along on this ride with you right 0:16:36.800 --> 0:16:38.880 to the bottom. And I think in the same way 0:16:38.920 --> 0:16:42.040 for Twitter, I still have not left Twitter because I 0:16:42.080 --> 0:16:46.880 do still believe that Twitter is a space for you 0:16:46.960 --> 0:16:51.000 to get information quickly, is a space for you to 0:16:51.080 --> 0:16:53.760 be able to share your thoughts, and so until it 0:16:54.160 --> 0:16:58.400 absolutely come busts wholeheartedly, I'll be I'll be like you, 0:16:58.480 --> 0:17:00.560 and I'll be one of the people that continue to 0:17:00.600 --> 0:17:04.879 hang on because all of the other social media platforms 0:17:04.880 --> 0:17:08.800 that have bubbled up don't are still in beta version 0:17:08.960 --> 0:17:12.359 right and don't have the same a reach right and 0:17:12.520 --> 0:17:15.199 power that a Twitter does at this time. And so 0:17:15.800 --> 0:17:18.200 I but I don't like to answer the larger question. 0:17:18.280 --> 0:17:21.280 I don't think that we are deplatforming ourselves. I think 0:17:21.320 --> 0:17:24.359 that people are showing the power that they have. And 0:17:24.400 --> 0:17:28.159 if CNN wants to continue in business and not you know, 0:17:28.320 --> 0:17:31.960 troll behind a Newsmax. In their ratings, which they did 0:17:32.000 --> 0:17:35.040 two days after they had Donald Trump on, they came 0:17:35.040 --> 0:17:38.920 in at three hundred and thirty five thousand viewers behind Newsmax, 0:17:39.240 --> 0:17:42.119 CNN was that if you want to continue with the 0:17:42.160 --> 0:17:44.800 far so pretending to be mainstream news when you're leaning 0:17:44.880 --> 0:17:47.880 right wing, then you're going to see those numbers. 0:17:48.000 --> 0:17:50.600 No, I don't do And again, like I'm as you know, 0:17:50.680 --> 0:17:53.160 I'm on CNN every so often, and so I don't 0:17:53.400 --> 0:17:56.560 certainly like what's happening. And I know people at CNN 0:17:56.560 --> 0:17:58.439 who are not happy and people who have les seen it. 0:17:58.480 --> 0:18:01.920 A lot of good people have lest CNN. It's great 0:18:01.920 --> 0:18:04.800 for MSNBC, right you know, Anna Carrera and all these 0:18:04.800 --> 0:18:10.000 amazing people are going over to MSNBC. I guess my concern, 0:18:10.480 --> 0:18:13.240 And I'll also say, like, I was called out, I 0:18:13.240 --> 0:18:16.560 think fairly by one of our listeners on this show 0:18:17.400 --> 0:18:20.960 because I think I made a bad joke about mated on, 0:18:21.119 --> 0:18:24.040 and I apologize. I'm sure it was I wasn't trying 0:18:24.040 --> 0:18:26.800 to be offensive, and I have total respect for people 0:18:26.800 --> 0:18:31.080 who were on mastered On. I'm on the waiting list 0:18:31.119 --> 0:18:34.199 for Blue Sky. I tried masked it on and I 0:18:34.280 --> 0:18:38.200 just couldn't, honestly. I just couldn't figure it out, honestly. 0:18:39.040 --> 0:18:41.960 But I guess for me, my concern is that the 0:18:42.080 --> 0:18:44.280 lead up to I mean, think about how important social 0:18:44.280 --> 0:18:48.840 media was to Biden's election in twenty twenty, like, because 0:18:48.880 --> 0:18:51.399 I was part of the influencer group, one of the 0:18:51.400 --> 0:18:55.280 influencer groups that was doing all the stuff with you know, 0:18:55.320 --> 0:18:58.600 we had we had Mark Ruffalo and all these people 0:18:58.680 --> 0:19:02.240 working with us. We had a massive footpath, a massive turnout, 0:19:02.280 --> 0:19:06.359 and we spoke to ambivalent voters, progressives who weren't sure 0:19:06.359 --> 0:19:09.040 that they were going to vote for vote for Biden. 0:19:10.000 --> 0:19:13.359 All these people, like social media was incredible, incredible, and 0:19:13.680 --> 0:19:16.840 it really helped, especially, you know, when we could target 0:19:16.920 --> 0:19:22.200 swing states, And my concern is just that's being undermined 0:19:22.240 --> 0:19:24.640 in such powerful ways right now. Like I think there's 0:19:24.640 --> 0:19:27.119 a very concerted effort by the Elon Musks of the 0:19:27.160 --> 0:19:30.639 world and other people to make sure that liberals don't 0:19:30.680 --> 0:19:33.520 have that kind of sway leading into the twenty twenty 0:19:33.520 --> 0:19:37.360 four election. And my concern is just that the Mastodons 0:19:37.400 --> 0:19:39.359 of the world and the blue skies of the world, 0:19:39.760 --> 0:19:42.960 it just becomes like a place to protest. It doesn't 0:19:42.960 --> 0:19:46.199 have a reach, it doesn't have enough reach, and so 0:19:46.359 --> 0:19:49.480 right now Twitter is the place with reach. And I'm 0:19:49.520 --> 0:19:51.320 just totally torn because of course I don't want to 0:19:51.320 --> 0:19:53.840 give my money to Elon Musk. And it also does 0:19:53.920 --> 0:19:56.840 concern me that like all these right wingers have this 0:19:56.920 --> 0:20:00.359 blue check which means that their tweets are boosted, can 0:20:00.720 --> 0:20:04.679 tweet longer tweets and put up videos, and everybody like 0:20:04.720 --> 0:20:07.280 me on my side is just sending these short tweets 0:20:07.320 --> 0:20:09.560 that don't go and go away where except to my 0:20:09.640 --> 0:20:12.159 friends and so and so. I just I don't know 0:20:12.160 --> 0:20:12.560 what to do. 0:20:14.040 --> 0:20:15.919 I mean, the reality is you can pay in the 0:20:15.960 --> 0:20:18.680 same way that they're paying to have their voices heard. 0:20:18.680 --> 0:20:21.960 But I think that also, look, I don't think the 0:20:22.040 --> 0:20:24.960 blue check now that we know that it can be bought, 0:20:25.280 --> 0:20:28.119 has the same cachet. I think that, of course, we 0:20:28.200 --> 0:20:32.359 continue to grow our numbers as you go on TV 0:20:32.640 --> 0:20:34.479 and do other things. But I think at the end 0:20:34.520 --> 0:20:37.760 of the day, people are going to diversify where they 0:20:37.800 --> 0:20:40.640 get the information and they're going to continue to do so. Right, 0:20:40.720 --> 0:20:44.800 the amount of people that use TikTok, for instance, as 0:20:44.800 --> 0:20:47.560 a way to get their news as opposed to actually 0:20:47.600 --> 0:20:50.440 watching the news or going on Twitter, because many people 0:20:50.520 --> 0:20:54.160 left Twitter even before because it became a swamp, right, 0:20:54.800 --> 0:20:57.480 And this is yeah, and this is what happens with 0:20:57.680 --> 0:21:02.000 these social media platforms. Like people left Facebook why because 0:21:02.160 --> 0:21:05.280 Facebook became a site for older people, but it was 0:21:05.359 --> 0:21:09.159 NonStop ads, right, So you were no longer even seeing 0:21:09.200 --> 0:21:11.960 the people are being able to engage with family and 0:21:11.960 --> 0:21:14.600 friends in the way that you were. You're just engaging 0:21:14.760 --> 0:21:18.879 with corporate sponsors, right. And so I think that with 0:21:19.119 --> 0:21:23.080 every every few years, and not even every few years, 0:21:23.240 --> 0:21:26.439 every every couple of you know, short years, there is 0:21:26.520 --> 0:21:30.479 going to be another explosion of social media platforms that 0:21:30.600 --> 0:21:33.480 try and refine what it is that is going wrong 0:21:33.520 --> 0:21:36.560 on these other places, and that's how people will move. 0:21:36.720 --> 0:21:39.600 I think that it is about figuring out how to 0:21:39.600 --> 0:21:43.119 get your message out in a multitude of ways, giving 0:21:43.160 --> 0:21:46.320 all the opportunities that people like you and I with 0:21:46.480 --> 0:21:48.760 varied platforms have the ability to do. 0:21:49.200 --> 0:21:51.760 No, I think that's right. I just think people need 0:21:51.760 --> 0:21:54.720 guidance about it right now, and again if Maston is 0:21:54.880 --> 0:21:57.840 the way to do that. But I mean, the important 0:21:57.880 --> 0:22:01.439 thing about something like Twitter is that you're not just 0:22:01.480 --> 0:22:04.120 speaking to your friends or your bubble, right, it actually 0:22:04.480 --> 0:22:08.240 potentially has reached well beyond people who agree with you, right, 0:22:08.240 --> 0:22:10.680 you can agree, you can engage people who disagree with you, 0:22:11.200 --> 0:22:14.199 and so I think that really that's kind of the 0:22:14.640 --> 0:22:17.840 that's kind of what's important when you're trying to think 0:22:17.880 --> 0:22:21.119 about social media and elections. For example, Like right now, 0:22:22.000 --> 0:22:24.800 I feel fine. I just again my worry is just 0:22:24.880 --> 0:22:27.320 like what's going to be the platform there is Probably 0:22:27.600 --> 0:22:30.680 the joke is slightly on us for like calling out 0:22:30.680 --> 0:22:34.000 Elon Musk when he wasn't going to buy Twitter, like 0:22:34.280 --> 0:22:38.280 probably we should have just let him slick away. But 0:22:38.280 --> 0:22:41.920 but but but but I think that what's the infrastructure 0:22:41.960 --> 0:22:45.080 going to be for that kind of mobilization. And maybe 0:22:45.119 --> 0:22:48.080 it is social media, maybe it's not social media, but 0:22:48.080 --> 0:22:50.680 but I just think I just think there's a there's 0:22:50.720 --> 0:22:54.399 a question of reach right now. That is, like, obviously 0:22:54.480 --> 0:22:56.520 there's a lot of data right now that the demographics 0:22:56.520 --> 0:23:00.360 are changing of Twitter. Twitter is a very powerful tool 0:23:00.440 --> 0:23:04.280 for Republicans right now. Twitter as a massive increase in 0:23:04.640 --> 0:23:07.120 people in Republicans who feel like it meets their needs. 0:23:07.119 --> 0:23:10.680 So Twitter is going to be very effective tool, even 0:23:10.880 --> 0:23:14.240 more than it was in twenty twenty for Republicans, just 0:23:14.240 --> 0:23:18.639 given everything that's happening. And so what's the counter to that? 0:23:18.920 --> 0:23:20.760 And I don't I don't know the answer. I mean, 0:23:20.760 --> 0:23:23.600 I'll say that's what I'm asking. I again, wasn't trying 0:23:23.600 --> 0:23:26.360 to poke fund at Macedon. I know everybody's people are 0:23:26.359 --> 0:23:28.840 trying that, But I just think, you know, we have 0:23:28.880 --> 0:23:30.880 an infrastructure issue that we need to address. 0:23:31.240 --> 0:23:33.880 Yeah, And I think that also people need to get 0:23:33.880 --> 0:23:36.240 off of their screens and get out into their communities. 0:23:36.600 --> 0:23:39.679 I think that all Another part of that is, you know, 0:23:39.880 --> 0:23:42.960 there is going to be a return to doing the 0:23:43.000 --> 0:23:45.639 good old fashioned work of actually meeting with the people 0:23:45.680 --> 0:23:49.719 in your community, knocking on those doors, and you know, 0:23:49.880 --> 0:23:53.480 and engaging in real ways. And I think that as 0:23:53.480 --> 0:23:55.840 we're going to see, you know, the twenty twenty four 0:23:55.880 --> 0:23:57.840 election is going to be the first election that we 0:23:57.880 --> 0:24:01.440 have chat GPT right where that is. That is also 0:24:02.359 --> 0:24:04.920 on one hand, oh how exciting look at this new 0:24:04.960 --> 0:24:08.200 technology that makes things easier, and oh, oh my god, 0:24:08.280 --> 0:24:12.640 how devastating to humanity this technology that makes everything easier. 0:24:13.560 --> 0:24:16.119 It makes it easier to spread lies, makes it easier 0:24:16.119 --> 0:24:18.960 to doctor videos, makes it easier to do a whole 0:24:19.000 --> 0:24:22.040 lot of things, uh that are going to be dangerous 0:24:22.200 --> 0:24:24.400 right moving on in the future. And so I think 0:24:24.440 --> 0:24:28.880 that people need to make decisions that align with their 0:24:29.119 --> 0:24:33.480 with their values, and if boycotting CNN, for instance, and 0:24:33.680 --> 0:24:37.800 putting your eyeballs towards a PVS or an MSNBC, or 0:24:38.359 --> 0:24:40.760 you know, going on and deciding, you know what, I'm 0:24:40.760 --> 0:24:46.040 just gonna read. I'm just gonna go like, you know, right, 0:24:46.119 --> 0:24:49.440 I'm just gonna read articles instead of you know, listening 0:24:49.440 --> 0:24:52.159 to the same stories regurgitated or actually I'm going to 0:24:52.280 --> 0:24:55.919 join you know, my local organizers and you know, and 0:24:55.960 --> 0:24:58.440 connect with the real people so that I'm not afraid 0:24:58.480 --> 0:25:00.880 of my neighbor down the street. I think that those 0:25:01.000 --> 0:25:03.680 are actually important things that we need to be doing. 0:25:03.720 --> 0:25:06.439 We shouldn't be looking at one place that none of 0:25:06.520 --> 0:25:10.880 us own right to be the life saver of democracy, 0:25:11.040 --> 0:25:13.480 because that ain't it right. And I think that that's 0:25:13.520 --> 0:25:16.399