1 00:00:01,760 --> 00:00:05,280 Speaker 1: You're listening to Math and Magic, a production. I heart radio. 2 00:00:08,760 --> 00:00:13,840 Speaker 1: Anytime I was with my father at work gatherings of 3 00:00:13,920 --> 00:00:16,840 Speaker 1: any sort that we the family were invited to, um 4 00:00:16,880 --> 00:00:20,639 Speaker 1: what stood out for me more was that he managed 5 00:00:20,680 --> 00:00:24,239 Speaker 1: to know every person's name in the room and knew 6 00:00:24,280 --> 00:00:27,880 Speaker 1: them personally and related to them in that way. And 7 00:00:27,920 --> 00:00:30,760 Speaker 1: I think for me that was more. What was the 8 00:00:30,920 --> 00:00:34,720 Speaker 1: role model in terms of just how he carried himself, 9 00:00:35,400 --> 00:00:39,040 Speaker 1: the relationships that he built, and then his belief that 10 00:00:39,080 --> 00:00:41,760 Speaker 1: he would always talk to me about is you know, Elizabeth, 11 00:00:41,760 --> 00:00:45,360 Speaker 1: please just walk in someone else's shoes for a bit. 12 00:00:45,960 --> 00:00:49,240 Speaker 1: When you're meeting someone new, when you're in a situation 13 00:00:49,400 --> 00:00:52,880 Speaker 1: that you're nervous or uncomfortable, just put yourself in the 14 00:00:52,920 --> 00:00:55,320 Speaker 1: other person's shoes for a second. Imagine what they're thinking, 15 00:00:55,400 --> 00:00:58,960 Speaker 1: what they're doing, what they did just before this meeting, 16 00:00:59,400 --> 00:01:01,520 Speaker 1: who they are, or what they're about, what they care about, 17 00:01:01,520 --> 00:01:04,800 Speaker 1: what they're passionate about. It's those kinds of things, Bob, 18 00:01:04,800 --> 00:01:08,240 Speaker 1: that I remember more than any of his corporate life 19 00:01:09,080 --> 00:01:20,000 Speaker 1: or lessons that I might have learned that way. Hi. 20 00:01:20,040 --> 00:01:22,840 Speaker 1: I am Bob Pittman, and welcome to another Recorded from 21 00:01:22,880 --> 00:01:26,600 Speaker 1: Home COVID episode of math and magic, stories from the 22 00:01:26,640 --> 00:01:29,680 Speaker 1: frontiers and marketing. Today, we have someone who spent most 23 00:01:29,720 --> 00:01:32,040 Speaker 1: of her career at one company and has made her 24 00:01:32,080 --> 00:01:34,839 Speaker 1: way to the top with the spring of visible successes 25 00:01:34,880 --> 00:01:38,480 Speaker 1: and her trail. She listens well, loves the consumer, and 26 00:01:38,600 --> 00:01:41,559 Speaker 1: is a great protector and builder of her brand. She's 27 00:01:41,560 --> 00:01:59,160 Speaker 1: Elizabeth Rutledge, CMO of American Express. Elizabeth grew up outside 28 00:01:59,160 --> 00:02:02,240 Speaker 1: New York and Row Princeton undergrad m y U for 29 00:02:02,440 --> 00:02:04,880 Speaker 1: m b A. Wanted to be a doctor, but made 30 00:02:04,880 --> 00:02:07,040 Speaker 1: her way to marketing with a short stop as a 31 00:02:07,160 --> 00:02:11,079 Speaker 1: ninth grade biology teacher. She professes to be an introvert 32 00:02:11,280 --> 00:02:14,040 Speaker 1: and uses that as a special skill, and she has 33 00:02:14,080 --> 00:02:17,920 Speaker 1: an interesting take on mentoring. She has been an ad 34 00:02:17,960 --> 00:02:21,360 Speaker 1: Week brand Genius in two thousand and nine and again 35 00:02:21,360 --> 00:02:24,360 Speaker 1: in two thousand and twelve, her team won American Expresses 36 00:02:24,600 --> 00:02:28,960 Speaker 1: Chairman's Award for Innovation that's the highest award for MX's employees, 37 00:02:29,320 --> 00:02:33,440 Speaker 1: and she is a big foodie. Elizabeth, Welcome, Hi, Bob. 38 00:02:33,440 --> 00:02:36,480 Speaker 1: How are you doing. I'm doing well. I'm surviving this. 39 00:02:36,600 --> 00:02:39,920 Speaker 1: Hope you are too. I am. I am long days 40 00:02:40,000 --> 00:02:43,480 Speaker 1: and nights on video conference. I know it, I know. 41 00:02:43,680 --> 00:02:45,519 Speaker 1: Thank goodness, We don't have video here. We have the 42 00:02:45,600 --> 00:02:49,000 Speaker 1: luxury of just having a voice. Before we dig into 43 00:02:49,000 --> 00:02:51,160 Speaker 1: the meaty stuff which I want to get into, I'd 44 00:02:51,200 --> 00:02:53,080 Speaker 1: like to do a little feature we do, which is 45 00:02:53,120 --> 00:02:57,200 Speaker 1: you in sixties seconds? Ready? Yeah? Ready? Do you prefer 46 00:02:57,280 --> 00:03:02,160 Speaker 1: sunrise or sunset? Sunrise, Lee Riser or night owl both, 47 00:03:02,720 --> 00:03:07,720 Speaker 1: Rye or New York City, New York City, Instagram or Twitter, Instagram, 48 00:03:07,960 --> 00:03:14,480 Speaker 1: beach or mountains, mountains, call or text? Text, coffee or tea, coffee, coffee, 49 00:03:14,480 --> 00:03:20,520 Speaker 1: coffee and more, coffee, Cats or dogs, cats, biking or running, running, 50 00:03:20,919 --> 00:03:26,320 Speaker 1: smartest person you know? My father? Favorite food, pizza, childhood hero. 51 00:03:27,000 --> 00:03:31,120 Speaker 1: I think it was my dad. First job selling shoes, 52 00:03:31,760 --> 00:03:37,480 Speaker 1: last book you read the cast, Favorite way to relax, pilates, 53 00:03:37,480 --> 00:03:41,600 Speaker 1: something you can't live without? Coffee, coffee, coffee. I'm picking 54 00:03:41,680 --> 00:03:46,160 Speaker 1: up a theme here, favorite city, Santa Fe, Final question, 55 00:03:46,480 --> 00:03:49,760 Speaker 1: guilty pleasure, ice cream. I thought you were going to 56 00:03:49,880 --> 00:03:53,080 Speaker 1: say coffee again, but thank goodness, we've got something else here, 57 00:03:53,640 --> 00:03:57,040 Speaker 1: So Elizabeth, let's just dive in now. A few years 58 00:03:57,040 --> 00:03:59,720 Speaker 1: ago we sat together for dinner and you talked about 59 00:04:00,040 --> 00:04:03,480 Speaker 1: being an introvert, and I was struck that it seemed 60 00:04:03,520 --> 00:04:06,280 Speaker 1: to be a core part of your identity and doing 61 00:04:06,280 --> 00:04:09,800 Speaker 1: our research for this episode, it sounds like this is 62 00:04:09,840 --> 00:04:13,200 Speaker 1: something that you at one point tried to overcome, but 63 00:04:13,320 --> 00:04:16,719 Speaker 1: now you use it to your advantage. Can you elaborate? Sure? 64 00:04:16,760 --> 00:04:18,840 Speaker 1: I remember that dinner. It was a fun night, Bob, 65 00:04:18,880 --> 00:04:22,440 Speaker 1: and you're right when I walk into a place where 66 00:04:22,440 --> 00:04:24,720 Speaker 1: I don't know anybody, and actually I believe that night 67 00:04:24,760 --> 00:04:26,280 Speaker 1: when I sat next to your dinner, I didn't know 68 00:04:26,400 --> 00:04:28,760 Speaker 1: very many other people, so it was great to see 69 00:04:28,839 --> 00:04:32,719 Speaker 1: a familiar face at the dinner table. I need to 70 00:04:32,760 --> 00:04:36,360 Speaker 1: work hard on it. I often get exhausted when I'm 71 00:04:36,360 --> 00:04:39,960 Speaker 1: in a big crowd. I like much more to have 72 00:04:40,040 --> 00:04:43,120 Speaker 1: one on one I prefer in those crowd situations again, 73 00:04:43,160 --> 00:04:46,640 Speaker 1: to seek out somebody and have a great, in depth conversation. 74 00:04:47,080 --> 00:04:50,320 Speaker 1: But I've learned that that's not always practical, and that 75 00:04:50,600 --> 00:04:53,640 Speaker 1: there are times when you need to stand stand up, 76 00:04:53,800 --> 00:04:56,720 Speaker 1: stand out, and also, you know, have a point of 77 00:04:56,800 --> 00:05:01,440 Speaker 1: view and ferociously defended when needed. I've learned that that's 78 00:05:01,480 --> 00:05:05,960 Speaker 1: important to me personally as well as as I'm leading 79 00:05:06,000 --> 00:05:10,400 Speaker 1: a large team through transformation, through both great times and 80 00:05:10,720 --> 00:05:13,960 Speaker 1: difficult times. It's been something that I've worked on very 81 00:05:14,000 --> 00:05:18,680 Speaker 1: hard over time. Bob, And so have you been able 82 00:05:18,760 --> 00:05:22,080 Speaker 1: to because I know you've talked to some about using 83 00:05:22,120 --> 00:05:25,919 Speaker 1: it as a skill which helps you in your job 84 00:05:26,120 --> 00:05:29,520 Speaker 1: and in your profession. How do you use that part 85 00:05:29,560 --> 00:05:32,560 Speaker 1: of your existence to help be a better manager and 86 00:05:32,600 --> 00:05:35,080 Speaker 1: a better executive in a couple of ways. And I'll 87 00:05:35,120 --> 00:05:38,479 Speaker 1: start first with having to think long and hard and 88 00:05:38,480 --> 00:05:42,760 Speaker 1: get prepared for meetings ahead of time. So that's one 89 00:05:42,800 --> 00:05:45,120 Speaker 1: thing that I think has come from just being an introvert. 90 00:05:45,200 --> 00:05:48,839 Speaker 1: And why do that because it then gives me the time, 91 00:05:48,880 --> 00:05:51,560 Speaker 1: the space to think ahead of time, form a point 92 00:05:51,600 --> 00:05:54,359 Speaker 1: of view and then be able to really defend it 93 00:05:54,440 --> 00:05:57,279 Speaker 1: or or stated in a meeting. The second thing that 94 00:05:57,360 --> 00:06:00,760 Speaker 1: I think because of my own introverted name sure, I'm 95 00:06:00,800 --> 00:06:03,560 Speaker 1: cognizant of other people in the room and try to 96 00:06:03,640 --> 00:06:06,840 Speaker 1: draw them out, particularly when they haven't said anything, they 97 00:06:06,880 --> 00:06:09,880 Speaker 1: haven't articulated what they feel. And the way to draw 98 00:06:09,920 --> 00:06:12,119 Speaker 1: them out is, you know, to have the conversation, build 99 00:06:12,120 --> 00:06:15,279 Speaker 1: the relationship, build the trust. And when you build that 100 00:06:15,320 --> 00:06:18,159 Speaker 1: trust and you form that sort of two way relationship, 101 00:06:18,640 --> 00:06:21,040 Speaker 1: it ends up creating great collaboration kind of at the 102 00:06:21,120 --> 00:06:23,480 Speaker 1: end of the day. So I think I've worked hard 103 00:06:23,480 --> 00:06:25,640 Speaker 1: on it myself as we've been talking about, but also 104 00:06:25,720 --> 00:06:28,480 Speaker 1: recognizing it in others, and that should be my role 105 00:06:28,560 --> 00:06:31,880 Speaker 1: now to help others along so that they can express 106 00:06:31,880 --> 00:06:35,719 Speaker 1: their opinions and we can work well together. You have 107 00:06:35,920 --> 00:06:39,120 Speaker 1: made your mark as someone who builds your marketing around 108 00:06:39,120 --> 00:06:42,400 Speaker 1: the consumer in an obsessive way. But I want to 109 00:06:42,440 --> 00:06:44,760 Speaker 1: start with an insight you got from your research that 110 00:06:44,800 --> 00:06:47,640 Speaker 1: seems to be front and center in this COVID restricted world. 111 00:06:48,120 --> 00:06:51,320 Speaker 1: That data showed that Americans are no longer dividing their 112 00:06:51,360 --> 00:06:54,719 Speaker 1: work and leisure time as neatly as they once did. 113 00:06:55,000 --> 00:06:58,719 Speaker 1: In fact, I think it was saying their personal and 114 00:06:58,720 --> 00:07:02,880 Speaker 1: professional lives are intertwined. It reminds me of a cartoon 115 00:07:03,400 --> 00:07:06,599 Speaker 1: I recently saw. There was a guy at a desk 116 00:07:06,960 --> 00:07:08,520 Speaker 1: as someone was at the door frame, and he was 117 00:07:08,560 --> 00:07:11,480 Speaker 1: asking them, I can't remember do I work at home 118 00:07:11,600 --> 00:07:14,240 Speaker 1: or do I live at work, which struck me as 119 00:07:14,280 --> 00:07:18,880 Speaker 1: a truth. We're all experiencing. Whatever you uncovered seems to 120 00:07:19,160 --> 00:07:22,280 Speaker 1: have accelerated in the last six months. Can you tell 121 00:07:22,360 --> 00:07:26,320 Speaker 1: us how that insight changed your marketing, and just as important, 122 00:07:26,560 --> 00:07:30,360 Speaker 1: how COVID has changed it even more. What a great question, bomb, 123 00:07:30,400 --> 00:07:32,360 Speaker 1: And as I reflect back, you know it was three 124 00:07:32,480 --> 00:07:37,400 Speaker 1: or four years ago when we refreshed and relaunched our 125 00:07:37,480 --> 00:07:40,760 Speaker 1: brand and our brand platform. You know, the powerful backing 126 00:07:41,040 --> 00:07:44,680 Speaker 1: of Americans pressed don't do business, don't live life without it, 127 00:07:45,160 --> 00:07:48,120 Speaker 1: and just in those words as a reflection, I think 128 00:07:48,160 --> 00:07:52,800 Speaker 1: of the hybrid life that um we are all leading. 129 00:07:53,160 --> 00:07:56,160 Speaker 1: And it's certainly through COVID that hybrid nous has been 130 00:07:56,200 --> 00:08:00,480 Speaker 1: accelerated through this recent pandemic. But three of or years 131 00:08:00,480 --> 00:08:04,600 Speaker 1: ago in particular, we were very focused around kind of 132 00:08:04,640 --> 00:08:07,360 Speaker 1: the seamless nature of life, and again, as you pointed out, 133 00:08:07,680 --> 00:08:10,480 Speaker 1: that's happening even more now, but I think it was 134 00:08:10,560 --> 00:08:14,440 Speaker 1: also about the sort of evolution of life and work, 135 00:08:15,000 --> 00:08:17,760 Speaker 1: and what we were finding is, you know, people were 136 00:08:17,800 --> 00:08:20,440 Speaker 1: not loyal to sort of one job. Many people have 137 00:08:20,560 --> 00:08:23,600 Speaker 1: side hustles. And at that point three years ago, Bob 138 00:08:23,600 --> 00:08:25,560 Speaker 1: I was saying, you know, Mark my words will look 139 00:08:25,600 --> 00:08:28,560 Speaker 1: back at this time and we're going to see dramatic 140 00:08:28,600 --> 00:08:32,600 Speaker 1: shifts in terms of how people work, how people live, 141 00:08:33,320 --> 00:08:35,480 Speaker 1: and what they need in terms of sort of tools 142 00:08:35,520 --> 00:08:37,960 Speaker 1: and services, and we as American Express need to be 143 00:08:38,080 --> 00:08:41,199 Speaker 1: right there for them. I never would imagine three years ago, 144 00:08:41,320 --> 00:08:43,920 Speaker 1: when we were talking about hybrid life that we would 145 00:08:43,920 --> 00:08:47,360 Speaker 1: be all living it to the nth degree that we are, 146 00:08:47,679 --> 00:08:50,080 Speaker 1: you know now and now more than ever, it's going 147 00:08:50,080 --> 00:08:53,360 Speaker 1: to be important to have the right tools. And this 148 00:08:53,400 --> 00:08:55,600 Speaker 1: is a great topic and I want to dig in deeper, 149 00:08:56,080 --> 00:08:57,880 Speaker 1: but at first I'd like to go back to your 150 00:08:57,920 --> 00:09:00,880 Speaker 1: origin story. Back in time. You grew up in the 151 00:09:00,920 --> 00:09:03,480 Speaker 1: northern New York City suburb of Rye. Can you tell 152 00:09:03,480 --> 00:09:05,640 Speaker 1: me about your parents, what they did for a living, 153 00:09:06,240 --> 00:09:10,360 Speaker 1: and how they impacted your life. My whole life revolved 154 00:09:10,400 --> 00:09:16,320 Speaker 1: around school and sports. My mom was a teacher. My 155 00:09:16,480 --> 00:09:19,520 Speaker 1: father grew up in the phone company what was New 156 00:09:19,559 --> 00:09:24,040 Speaker 1: York Telephone at the time. His last job there was 157 00:09:24,160 --> 00:09:28,160 Speaker 1: head of human Resources. I spent a lot of time outdoors. 158 00:09:28,640 --> 00:09:31,920 Speaker 1: I played the cross did a lot of running, and 159 00:09:32,080 --> 00:09:35,439 Speaker 1: just cared a lot about my school work in particular. 160 00:09:35,679 --> 00:09:39,200 Speaker 1: Had a love of biology and science. That's what it 161 00:09:39,280 --> 00:09:42,679 Speaker 1: was all about back then. So your dad was in 162 00:09:42,760 --> 00:09:46,640 Speaker 1: a big corporation, big corporate job, New York Telephone then 163 00:09:46,760 --> 00:09:49,720 Speaker 1: nine X, which is Verizon today for those who don't know. 164 00:09:50,080 --> 00:09:52,800 Speaker 1: Do you think having a dad who navigated a big 165 00:09:52,840 --> 00:09:56,079 Speaker 1: corporation day to day gave you some of the comfort 166 00:09:56,160 --> 00:09:59,200 Speaker 1: zone You clearly have had a big corporation like amx 167 00:09:59,520 --> 00:10:03,439 Speaker 1: obsole lutely Bob. We were very close. My father's since 168 00:10:03,600 --> 00:10:07,520 Speaker 1: passed away, he's not been with us for over fifteen 169 00:10:07,600 --> 00:10:12,920 Speaker 1: years now. Just a gentle giant and inspired me, I 170 00:10:12,960 --> 00:10:16,080 Speaker 1: think every day. And I don't know so much in 171 00:10:16,200 --> 00:10:18,679 Speaker 1: terms of if I thought back then about it from 172 00:10:18,720 --> 00:10:21,720 Speaker 1: a corporate career or a big company career. That was 173 00:10:21,800 --> 00:10:26,360 Speaker 1: not what was inspiring anytime I was with my father 174 00:10:26,760 --> 00:10:30,080 Speaker 1: at work gatherings of any sort that we the family 175 00:10:30,120 --> 00:10:33,439 Speaker 1: were invited to. Um What stood out for me more 176 00:10:34,240 --> 00:10:37,040 Speaker 1: was that he managed to know every person's name in 177 00:10:37,040 --> 00:10:41,360 Speaker 1: the room and knew them personally and related to them 178 00:10:41,400 --> 00:10:44,840 Speaker 1: in that way. And I think for me that was more. 179 00:10:44,880 --> 00:10:48,400 Speaker 1: What was the role model in terms of just how 180 00:10:48,440 --> 00:10:53,000 Speaker 1: he carried himself, the relationships that he built, and then 181 00:10:53,040 --> 00:10:55,440 Speaker 1: his belief that he would always talk to me about 182 00:10:55,559 --> 00:10:58,880 Speaker 1: is you know, Elizabeth, please just walk in someone else's 183 00:10:58,920 --> 00:11:03,120 Speaker 1: shoes for it. When you're meeting someone new, when you're 184 00:11:03,120 --> 00:11:07,160 Speaker 1: in a situation that you're nervous or uncomfortable, just put 185 00:11:07,200 --> 00:11:09,400 Speaker 1: yourself in the other person's shoes for a second. Imagine 186 00:11:09,400 --> 00:11:12,280 Speaker 1: what they're thinking, what they're doing, what they did just 187 00:11:12,400 --> 00:11:15,600 Speaker 1: before this meeting who they are, what they're about, what 188 00:11:15,679 --> 00:11:18,960 Speaker 1: they care about, what they're passionate about. It's those kinds 189 00:11:18,960 --> 00:11:21,600 Speaker 1: of things, Bob, that I remember more than any of 190 00:11:21,679 --> 00:11:25,040 Speaker 1: his corporate life or lessons that I might have learned 191 00:11:25,080 --> 00:11:28,200 Speaker 1: that way. Yeah, it's interesting. It sounds like he's gave 192 00:11:28,240 --> 00:11:31,160 Speaker 1: you some great, great role model and some great advice 193 00:11:31,679 --> 00:11:36,640 Speaker 1: about navigating incorporation through empathy. Absolutely that you've captured my 194 00:11:36,720 --> 00:11:40,160 Speaker 1: dad in one word. So you were clearly in the 195 00:11:40,240 --> 00:11:44,199 Speaker 1: smart kig category. You went to Princeton, graduated with the 196 00:11:44,320 --> 00:11:48,160 Speaker 1: b A in English, and I focus on premd What happened? 197 00:11:48,280 --> 00:11:52,679 Speaker 1: Why aren't you a doctor? Oh? Boy, some days I 198 00:11:52,760 --> 00:11:57,240 Speaker 1: still ask myself that question, Bob. Here's what happened. When 199 00:11:57,280 --> 00:12:00,600 Speaker 1: I first got out of college. I did search at 200 00:12:00,600 --> 00:12:04,320 Speaker 1: a New York hospital for a cardiothoractic surgeon. And you know, 201 00:12:04,360 --> 00:12:06,760 Speaker 1: just to set the time frame, we're talking about the 202 00:12:06,760 --> 00:12:10,840 Speaker 1: early eighties, there weren't very many females who were cardiothorastic 203 00:12:10,880 --> 00:12:14,200 Speaker 1: surgeons at the time, and certainly I couldn't have picked 204 00:12:14,400 --> 00:12:19,720 Speaker 1: a more intense specialty in terms of literally watching a 205 00:12:19,720 --> 00:12:23,480 Speaker 1: lot of of life and also um some death. And 206 00:12:23,559 --> 00:12:26,080 Speaker 1: so when I put it all together through that lens, 207 00:12:26,200 --> 00:12:30,920 Speaker 1: through that view, it didn't seem doable, approachable, and it 208 00:12:31,000 --> 00:12:33,800 Speaker 1: seemed like a long career path to get to be 209 00:12:33,880 --> 00:12:38,640 Speaker 1: that surgeon. And so when I decided that wasn't for 210 00:12:38,720 --> 00:12:41,880 Speaker 1: me because of both the environment, the stress, and I 211 00:12:41,880 --> 00:12:45,880 Speaker 1: don't think seeing exactly that the role models that I 212 00:12:45,960 --> 00:12:48,080 Speaker 1: needed to see. At the time, there weren't very many 213 00:12:48,160 --> 00:12:52,200 Speaker 1: other As I said before Females, I made the decision 214 00:12:52,440 --> 00:12:54,920 Speaker 1: to go teach, and I taught for two years in 215 00:12:54,960 --> 00:12:58,920 Speaker 1: the city, mainly taught biology and what a fabulous experience 216 00:12:59,040 --> 00:13:01,160 Speaker 1: and I could spend the most of the time talking 217 00:13:01,160 --> 00:13:04,040 Speaker 1: to you about all the lessons that I learned in 218 00:13:04,080 --> 00:13:07,440 Speaker 1: those two years. That was my first exposure experience in 219 00:13:07,520 --> 00:13:10,079 Speaker 1: terms of certainly having to stand up in front of 220 00:13:10,120 --> 00:13:12,720 Speaker 1: an audience and make sure you're capturing the attention and 221 00:13:12,720 --> 00:13:16,360 Speaker 1: the imaginations of ninth graders. I always think whenever I'm 222 00:13:16,400 --> 00:13:19,040 Speaker 1: in a presentation, now I can do what I had 223 00:13:19,120 --> 00:13:21,200 Speaker 1: to do back then in terms of ninth graders. I 224 00:13:21,200 --> 00:13:24,439 Speaker 1: got this, but it was a really exciting time for 225 00:13:24,480 --> 00:13:27,440 Speaker 1: me in terms of learning a lot about myself. The 226 00:13:27,520 --> 00:13:30,640 Speaker 1: sort of passion and love for teaching others was sort 227 00:13:30,640 --> 00:13:33,840 Speaker 1: of you know born in those moments, and I think 228 00:13:33,880 --> 00:13:36,080 Speaker 1: the reason then you're probably gonna ask in terms of 229 00:13:36,280 --> 00:13:39,280 Speaker 1: how did you get to marketing? What I found is 230 00:13:39,320 --> 00:13:42,520 Speaker 1: I had to make more money than I was making 231 00:13:42,640 --> 00:13:46,040 Speaker 1: in order to, you know, make ends meet at the time, 232 00:13:46,120 --> 00:13:49,319 Speaker 1: and so I took some summer jobs along the way 233 00:13:49,320 --> 00:13:52,600 Speaker 1: and advertising and marketing, and when the offers came for 234 00:13:52,720 --> 00:13:56,080 Speaker 1: full time jobs, I took the chance, not really knowing 235 00:13:56,200 --> 00:13:59,520 Speaker 1: a lot about marketing or advertising, but learning along the way. 236 00:13:59,559 --> 00:14:02,439 Speaker 1: And then I've never looked back from those moments. Do 237 00:14:02,480 --> 00:14:06,960 Speaker 1: you think you still as a manager wind up teaching? Absolutely. 238 00:14:07,000 --> 00:14:09,000 Speaker 1: I grew up, as I told you, with a mom 239 00:14:09,040 --> 00:14:11,640 Speaker 1: who was a teacher. Her mom was a teacher as well, 240 00:14:12,160 --> 00:14:14,400 Speaker 1: my father, as I described to you, as a teacher 241 00:14:14,640 --> 00:14:17,960 Speaker 1: in so many ways as well. And yes, that's what 242 00:14:18,120 --> 00:14:20,800 Speaker 1: I gravitate to. And I feel, particularly now, Bob and 243 00:14:20,880 --> 00:14:25,080 Speaker 1: the role I'm in now, that it's important for me 244 00:14:25,320 --> 00:14:30,960 Speaker 1: not only to be the teacher, but also to be 245 00:14:31,120 --> 00:14:35,040 Speaker 1: ambitious for others and to draw them out and to 246 00:14:35,080 --> 00:14:38,640 Speaker 1: help them along in their career path and their career journey. 247 00:14:38,640 --> 00:14:41,760 Speaker 1: And I do spend a lot of time mentoring and 248 00:14:41,800 --> 00:14:45,560 Speaker 1: helping others, both in and outside of the company as 249 00:14:45,600 --> 00:14:47,680 Speaker 1: they think about what they want to do, where they 250 00:14:47,680 --> 00:14:49,560 Speaker 1: want to be, and what I will tell you. As 251 00:14:49,640 --> 00:14:52,920 Speaker 1: much as I'm a teacher, I'm also the student, and 252 00:14:52,960 --> 00:14:55,160 Speaker 1: I truly mean that. I think you have to be curious, 253 00:14:55,240 --> 00:14:57,120 Speaker 1: You have to be asking questions all the time, and 254 00:14:57,160 --> 00:15:00,560 Speaker 1: I'm often seeking out no matter where that person is, 255 00:15:00,600 --> 00:15:03,440 Speaker 1: from what experience they've had, I'm just seeking out the 256 00:15:03,480 --> 00:15:07,160 Speaker 1: person that has the knowledge the expertise given our industry 257 00:15:07,240 --> 00:15:12,080 Speaker 1: is so rapidly changing and evolving, So let's make the 258 00:15:12,120 --> 00:15:14,720 Speaker 1: move to American Express. You you had a brief stop 259 00:15:14,760 --> 00:15:18,040 Speaker 1: at nine X now Verizon, and then you began an 260 00:15:18,040 --> 00:15:21,880 Speaker 1: American Express. Did you plan on a career in American Express? 261 00:15:21,880 --> 00:15:24,640 Speaker 1: How did you get there? I got there through a 262 00:15:24,680 --> 00:15:28,920 Speaker 1: reference from a friend, and I was very excited to 263 00:15:28,920 --> 00:15:33,840 Speaker 1: be a part of American Express iconic brand, a global brand, 264 00:15:34,640 --> 00:15:39,000 Speaker 1: one known back then for its marketing prowess and expertise, 265 00:15:39,560 --> 00:15:43,120 Speaker 1: and so I was excited to be a part of 266 00:15:43,160 --> 00:15:45,800 Speaker 1: this company and to have the opportunity actually to think 267 00:15:45,800 --> 00:15:52,160 Speaker 1: about both consumers and businesses, and also have the opportunity 268 00:15:52,600 --> 00:15:57,920 Speaker 1: to travel and to learn and understand about different markets. 269 00:15:58,000 --> 00:16:00,000 Speaker 1: For someone who had really grown up and spent most 270 00:16:00,000 --> 00:16:03,200 Speaker 1: of her time here in the in the US. But 271 00:16:03,280 --> 00:16:06,080 Speaker 1: I never expected to be here as long as I have. 272 00:16:06,520 --> 00:16:09,520 Speaker 1: But here's why I've been here this long. The challenges 273 00:16:09,560 --> 00:16:12,440 Speaker 1: have always been there for me. The opportunities, the ability 274 00:16:12,520 --> 00:16:17,920 Speaker 1: to understand different customer segments have not always been in marketing. 275 00:16:17,920 --> 00:16:22,080 Speaker 1: I've been in business development, I've been in partner negotiations, 276 00:16:22,600 --> 00:16:26,840 Speaker 1: I've been in product development. There's just a tremendous amount 277 00:16:26,840 --> 00:16:30,320 Speaker 1: of opportunity both from a segment and a functional perspective. 278 00:16:31,040 --> 00:16:34,720 Speaker 1: And also what has really kept me here as the people. 279 00:16:35,320 --> 00:16:38,760 Speaker 1: Just an amazing, inspiring group of people. The culture is 280 00:16:38,800 --> 00:16:42,720 Speaker 1: all about the people in the relationships. They're very special, 281 00:16:43,240 --> 00:16:47,280 Speaker 1: and I've had just tremendous mentors, supporters, leaders along the 282 00:16:47,280 --> 00:16:51,200 Speaker 1: way who pushed me, helped me grow. It's just been 283 00:16:51,240 --> 00:16:53,720 Speaker 1: a fabulous experience. And I truly mean that, I really 284 00:16:53,760 --> 00:16:56,840 Speaker 1: really mean that. I suspect that there's something in the 285 00:16:56,880 --> 00:16:59,960 Speaker 1: culture there. I have my stent with American Express when 286 00:17:00,640 --> 00:17:04,440 Speaker 1: they owned MTV and I had Jim Robinson is still 287 00:17:04,480 --> 00:17:07,479 Speaker 1: a friend and was mentor. Luke Gershner was there at 288 00:17:07,480 --> 00:17:10,840 Speaker 1: the time. A lady named Sandra Meyer who has passed away, 289 00:17:10,960 --> 00:17:14,080 Speaker 1: sadly many years ago. Every time I encountered them, they 290 00:17:14,080 --> 00:17:17,360 Speaker 1: tried to teach me something. They taught me about fighting brands, 291 00:17:17,359 --> 00:17:20,320 Speaker 1: they taught me about halo effects, they taught me the 292 00:17:20,400 --> 00:17:22,400 Speaker 1: stuff that was sort of an NBA And I don't 293 00:17:22,440 --> 00:17:24,840 Speaker 1: do you think it's in the culture or was I 294 00:17:24,920 --> 00:17:26,760 Speaker 1: just at that moment and got it and you were 295 00:17:26,800 --> 00:17:29,359 Speaker 1: at that moment and got it. Oh, it's definitely in 296 00:17:29,400 --> 00:17:31,879 Speaker 1: our d n A. And here's how I'm going to 297 00:17:31,960 --> 00:17:35,800 Speaker 1: relate it to sort of what's happening now. No, we've 298 00:17:35,800 --> 00:17:40,400 Speaker 1: not talked much about COVID and the pandemic, but the 299 00:17:40,400 --> 00:17:43,760 Speaker 1: focus certainly is always on, you know, our customers and 300 00:17:43,840 --> 00:17:48,000 Speaker 1: putting our customers first. But it also has been about 301 00:17:48,000 --> 00:17:51,080 Speaker 1: putting our colleagues first. And you know, we actually call 302 00:17:51,520 --> 00:17:55,040 Speaker 1: our employees colleagues. And I think that actually, just bob 303 00:17:55,040 --> 00:17:58,199 Speaker 1: in and of itself tells you a bit about the 304 00:17:58,320 --> 00:18:01,640 Speaker 1: learning culture, the develop men and sort of training culture. 305 00:18:02,400 --> 00:18:05,679 Speaker 1: And we're just very focused on just ensuring from the 306 00:18:05,800 --> 00:18:08,879 Speaker 1: day you step into the either the physical or the 307 00:18:08,960 --> 00:18:13,080 Speaker 1: virtual rooms of American Express, that you're part of a team. 308 00:18:13,160 --> 00:18:16,040 Speaker 1: We win as a team. And it's been a big 309 00:18:16,080 --> 00:18:18,840 Speaker 1: focus for us as we've kind of transitioned through COVID, 310 00:18:19,440 --> 00:18:23,000 Speaker 1: and in these early days that we all experienced back 311 00:18:23,000 --> 00:18:26,440 Speaker 1: in February and March, our focus was on protecting the 312 00:18:26,480 --> 00:18:29,280 Speaker 1: health and the safety of our colleagues. You know, getting 313 00:18:29,320 --> 00:18:32,919 Speaker 1: sixty plus colleagues to sort of work at home. You 314 00:18:32,960 --> 00:18:36,840 Speaker 1: can only imagine what it took and the energy and 315 00:18:36,880 --> 00:18:39,359 Speaker 1: the passion for us to be able to do that 316 00:18:39,440 --> 00:18:41,760 Speaker 1: in order for us to kind of serve our customers 317 00:18:41,800 --> 00:18:44,280 Speaker 1: and protect the brand. I've been here for a really 318 00:18:44,320 --> 00:18:46,879 Speaker 1: long time. It's just really a part of kind of 319 00:18:46,920 --> 00:18:50,879 Speaker 1: who we are, and it's expressed through the colleagues, but 320 00:18:50,960 --> 00:18:53,840 Speaker 1: just also how we treat our customers every single day. 321 00:18:53,920 --> 00:18:55,920 Speaker 1: It's all about that back and promise that I talked 322 00:18:55,920 --> 00:19:00,840 Speaker 1: about earlier. So that brought up the American Express piece 323 00:19:00,880 --> 00:19:03,600 Speaker 1: of MTV for a reason I wanted to get into. 324 00:19:03,880 --> 00:19:05,400 Speaker 1: I want to dig a little bit into your thinking 325 00:19:05,400 --> 00:19:08,600 Speaker 1: of philosophy as a marketer. And we've talked about short 326 00:19:08,680 --> 00:19:12,160 Speaker 1: consumer attention spans in the past. I know you've talked 327 00:19:12,160 --> 00:19:16,600 Speaker 1: a lot about it, and ironically, MX probably had some 328 00:19:16,720 --> 00:19:20,000 Speaker 1: hand in causing that. Again, not sure most people know 329 00:19:20,080 --> 00:19:23,960 Speaker 1: that MTV was half owned by American Express and MTV 330 00:19:24,119 --> 00:19:28,400 Speaker 1: probably was, if not caused, it was accused of causing 331 00:19:28,760 --> 00:19:32,919 Speaker 1: the short attention span. And here we are forty years 332 00:19:32,960 --> 00:19:36,439 Speaker 1: after the launch of MTV and you're building some of 333 00:19:36,480 --> 00:19:39,960 Speaker 1: your key marketing around this notion of short attention spans. 334 00:19:40,480 --> 00:19:42,720 Speaker 1: Talk to me a little bit about how you see 335 00:19:42,760 --> 00:19:45,920 Speaker 1: the short attention span and how you use it, maybe 336 00:19:45,920 --> 00:19:50,159 Speaker 1: any examples you've got. So look, I think where we 337 00:19:50,240 --> 00:19:53,040 Speaker 1: are in the world right now, it's often said, and 338 00:19:53,080 --> 00:19:56,080 Speaker 1: I know you've heard this said this it's a sixth 339 00:19:56,280 --> 00:19:59,840 Speaker 1: second moment, or it's a flip of a hand on 340 00:20:00,000 --> 00:20:03,600 Speaker 1: a screen in terms of the moment that you have 341 00:20:04,080 --> 00:20:06,719 Speaker 1: to speak to your customers. But I think about it 342 00:20:06,760 --> 00:20:08,879 Speaker 1: this way. We American espress are in this for the 343 00:20:08,960 --> 00:20:13,159 Speaker 1: long haul. It's about building relationships over time. It's about 344 00:20:13,160 --> 00:20:16,480 Speaker 1: reciprocal relationships, you know, meaning that there's a give and take, 345 00:20:16,560 --> 00:20:19,160 Speaker 1: that there's a trust built, and they're built in small 346 00:20:19,200 --> 00:20:22,520 Speaker 1: moments and they're built in big moments. And that's what 347 00:20:22,680 --> 00:20:25,040 Speaker 1: we are doing. And I hear you in terms of 348 00:20:25,080 --> 00:20:27,320 Speaker 1: the short attention spans, and you need to sort of 349 00:20:27,320 --> 00:20:30,160 Speaker 1: look at from a market or perspective to make sure 350 00:20:30,200 --> 00:20:32,320 Speaker 1: that you have the right message and the right channel 351 00:20:32,400 --> 00:20:35,680 Speaker 1: at the right time. But to me, it's really being 352 00:20:35,800 --> 00:20:39,720 Speaker 1: there in those small moments that happen and to make 353 00:20:39,760 --> 00:20:42,359 Speaker 1: sure that we're front and center. We had at the 354 00:20:42,400 --> 00:20:46,000 Speaker 1: beginning of Covid a twelve day sprint to stand up 355 00:20:46,520 --> 00:20:49,880 Speaker 1: a site that we call Stand for Small, and it's 356 00:20:49,920 --> 00:20:52,560 Speaker 1: really all about something that's near and dear to my 357 00:20:52,640 --> 00:20:56,240 Speaker 1: heart in terms of what small businesses are needing right now, 358 00:20:56,760 --> 00:21:00,680 Speaker 1: you know, given what's happening with the pandemic, and needing 359 00:21:00,680 --> 00:21:05,359 Speaker 1: our support, needing resources to help them drive customers to 360 00:21:05,359 --> 00:21:09,840 Speaker 1: their establishments, whether that's online or physically. And I point 361 00:21:09,840 --> 00:21:11,520 Speaker 1: that out when you ask an example of kind of 362 00:21:11,520 --> 00:21:14,639 Speaker 1: short attention span in short time, because for us to 363 00:21:14,720 --> 00:21:17,640 Speaker 1: do a twelve day sprint like that and make something happen, 364 00:21:18,359 --> 00:21:21,320 Speaker 1: it's really important because people needed it in the moment. 365 00:21:21,520 --> 00:21:24,040 Speaker 1: You can't wait to launch and have a big product 366 00:21:24,119 --> 00:21:26,080 Speaker 1: launch like we used to do in terms of a 367 00:21:26,200 --> 00:21:30,320 Speaker 1: three month timetable. And I think that that's part of 368 00:21:30,359 --> 00:21:34,000 Speaker 1: what sort of change, how to deliver something meaningful and 369 00:21:34,080 --> 00:21:36,520 Speaker 1: real in the moment, and that Stand for Small. I 370 00:21:36,520 --> 00:21:39,320 Speaker 1: think it's just a great example. So so many things 371 00:21:39,400 --> 00:21:43,640 Speaker 1: have had to change or accelerate trends that were already happening, 372 00:21:44,280 --> 00:21:48,360 Speaker 1: and we're just working in a very agile environment here. 373 00:21:48,400 --> 00:21:51,239 Speaker 1: That term all the time, but we're applying it in 374 00:21:51,359 --> 00:21:55,960 Speaker 1: terms of the way actually we execute our campaigns. I've 375 00:21:55,960 --> 00:21:58,760 Speaker 1: really been a proponent and a champion of this agile 376 00:21:58,800 --> 00:22:02,440 Speaker 1: methodology from a marketing perspective, Bob, no more than seven 377 00:22:02,480 --> 00:22:04,760 Speaker 1: eight people that can gather around a pizza to sort 378 00:22:04,760 --> 00:22:09,400 Speaker 1: of execute a campaign real time, real moments. In these 379 00:22:09,480 --> 00:22:13,720 Speaker 1: short sprints. The collaboration is stronger, the colleague or employee 380 00:22:13,720 --> 00:22:16,920 Speaker 1: satisfaction is greater, and we're seeing much stronger business results, 381 00:22:17,440 --> 00:22:19,520 Speaker 1: you know, as the result of the way we're operating. 382 00:22:20,119 --> 00:22:23,240 Speaker 1: And so I think life is fed up. Well, we 383 00:22:23,280 --> 00:22:26,400 Speaker 1: have seen and obviously we do business together and we've 384 00:22:26,440 --> 00:22:30,040 Speaker 1: seen it up close and personal that you are very nimble, 385 00:22:30,520 --> 00:22:34,120 Speaker 1: very agile, that you do look at what's going on 386 00:22:34,640 --> 00:22:39,800 Speaker 1: and respond surprisingly fast for a company the size of 387 00:22:39,840 --> 00:22:43,680 Speaker 1: American Express. Let me flip to the next piece of it. 388 00:22:44,280 --> 00:22:49,040 Speaker 1: You call the consumer American Express is north Star. What 389 00:22:49,160 --> 00:22:52,879 Speaker 1: practical ivocations does that have for your marketing? First of all, 390 00:22:52,920 --> 00:22:57,040 Speaker 1: it's all driven by customer insights. You know, customer needs 391 00:22:57,880 --> 00:23:01,160 Speaker 1: and when you put that at the enter of everything. 392 00:23:02,080 --> 00:23:06,680 Speaker 1: That's how you create are our great customer servicing experiences. 393 00:23:07,320 --> 00:23:09,439 Speaker 1: It's all the things that I've been talking about in 394 00:23:09,560 --> 00:23:13,280 Speaker 1: terms of the changes that we have needed to make 395 00:23:13,400 --> 00:23:17,160 Speaker 1: based on sort of our customer needs. We've really pivoted 396 00:23:17,200 --> 00:23:21,159 Speaker 1: in terms of making sure that we've given financial assistance 397 00:23:21,200 --> 00:23:24,320 Speaker 1: to customers that need it during the pandemic. Those evolved 398 00:23:24,480 --> 00:23:27,359 Speaker 1: card member benefits that are based off of customer needs 399 00:23:27,359 --> 00:23:29,840 Speaker 1: in the moment, again, whether it was you know, wireless 400 00:23:29,880 --> 00:23:32,760 Speaker 1: credits or food delivery offers. We talked a little bit 401 00:23:32,800 --> 00:23:36,040 Speaker 1: about the new automated B two B payment solutions. You 402 00:23:36,080 --> 00:23:38,879 Speaker 1: can hear and everything that I'm sharing and saying that 403 00:23:38,960 --> 00:23:41,840 Speaker 1: it's all about just the customer kind of at the 404 00:23:41,880 --> 00:23:45,320 Speaker 1: center of it. It's also in terms of things that 405 00:23:45,560 --> 00:23:48,480 Speaker 1: you may not see your understand in the moment, but 406 00:23:48,560 --> 00:23:50,840 Speaker 1: to me, it's just important in terms of how we're 407 00:23:50,880 --> 00:23:53,639 Speaker 1: talking to our customers, that we're talking to them to 408 00:23:53,720 --> 00:23:56,840 Speaker 1: them in real and simple and straightforward language, that we 409 00:23:56,840 --> 00:23:59,840 Speaker 1: create experiences that are frictional, lists that are easy, that 410 00:24:00,040 --> 00:24:03,479 Speaker 1: are driving value. You've seen and heard and been a 411 00:24:03,520 --> 00:24:05,440 Speaker 1: part of a lot of our work as it relates 412 00:24:05,480 --> 00:24:08,720 Speaker 1: to small businesses. You know they've been hit so hard 413 00:24:08,800 --> 00:24:12,600 Speaker 1: during this pandemic, which is incredibly focused on supporting them 414 00:24:12,760 --> 00:24:15,800 Speaker 1: and making sure that we can help our communities and 415 00:24:15,960 --> 00:24:19,360 Speaker 1: drive spend to those small businesses. And to me, it's 416 00:24:19,400 --> 00:24:22,320 Speaker 1: just always being one step ahead of the customer, having 417 00:24:22,359 --> 00:24:28,439 Speaker 1: that insight, making sure that experience is easy, seamless, and 418 00:24:28,520 --> 00:24:31,000 Speaker 1: our mission is all about the best customer experience, you know, 419 00:24:31,040 --> 00:24:34,040 Speaker 1: every single day, and when a company has run that way, 420 00:24:34,280 --> 00:24:36,919 Speaker 1: we're going to be creating and delivering great products and 421 00:24:36,960 --> 00:24:40,560 Speaker 1: services to serve our communities. So let me ask you 422 00:24:40,600 --> 00:24:43,640 Speaker 1: a question, not just about American expression but marketing in general. 423 00:24:43,960 --> 00:24:47,920 Speaker 1: Do you think the data scientists has now moved into 424 00:24:48,000 --> 00:24:52,320 Speaker 1: the marketing team as a core member? Absolutely? Period, end 425 00:24:52,320 --> 00:24:56,159 Speaker 1: of conversation. How do you use your data scientists in 426 00:24:56,200 --> 00:25:00,040 Speaker 1: a different way than you used your research depart it 427 00:25:00,200 --> 00:25:04,200 Speaker 1: meant in the old days. So I think for me 428 00:25:04,640 --> 00:25:10,560 Speaker 1: it's very clearly to drive just our marketing plans. This 429 00:25:10,640 --> 00:25:13,200 Speaker 1: has been an evolution sort of over time so one, 430 00:25:13,240 --> 00:25:15,280 Speaker 1: and we've been talking about this already. Certainly want to 431 00:25:15,359 --> 00:25:18,680 Speaker 1: be ahead of the trends or on trend in terms 432 00:25:18,760 --> 00:25:21,600 Speaker 1: of what our customers are telling us and making sure 433 00:25:21,640 --> 00:25:23,600 Speaker 1: we're there to create those products and services. And we've 434 00:25:23,640 --> 00:25:25,960 Speaker 1: been talking a lot about that, and I talked about 435 00:25:26,040 --> 00:25:28,960 Speaker 1: just operating in those short term sprints, and the data 436 00:25:29,000 --> 00:25:31,760 Speaker 1: scientists is so crucial to our ability to be nimble 437 00:25:32,400 --> 00:25:34,920 Speaker 1: in terms of sort of spotting those trends and being 438 00:25:34,960 --> 00:25:38,600 Speaker 1: able to be agile in terms of either changing your 439 00:25:38,680 --> 00:25:43,919 Speaker 1: media choices, changing your creative messaging and imagery choices, and 440 00:25:44,040 --> 00:25:47,760 Speaker 1: just working hard on getting much more personalized in terms 441 00:25:47,800 --> 00:25:49,800 Speaker 1: of what we would deliver to you, Bob, versus what 442 00:25:49,840 --> 00:25:52,720 Speaker 1: we might deliver to somebody else that would be meaningful, 443 00:25:53,160 --> 00:25:56,480 Speaker 1: and the sort of sort of the shorter sprints to learn, 444 00:25:57,080 --> 00:26:00,840 Speaker 1: and those data scientists are so important in terms of 445 00:26:00,920 --> 00:26:06,160 Speaker 1: making the whole ecosystem work in a faster, more effective way. 446 00:26:10,040 --> 00:26:12,720 Speaker 1: More on Math and Magic right after this quick break. 447 00:26:18,520 --> 00:26:21,480 Speaker 1: Welcome back to Math and Magic. Let's hear more from 448 00:26:21,480 --> 00:26:26,960 Speaker 1: my conversation with Elizabeth Rutledge. So let's talk a little 449 00:26:26,960 --> 00:26:30,840 Speaker 1: bit about marketing technique. I've heard you talk in the past, 450 00:26:30,880 --> 00:26:33,200 Speaker 1: I've read some of what you've talked about. Is do 451 00:26:33,280 --> 00:26:36,239 Speaker 1: you focus a lot on word of mouth? What do 452 00:26:36,280 --> 00:26:39,280 Speaker 1: you think it is, how do you use it? Look? 453 00:26:39,280 --> 00:26:44,360 Speaker 1: Word of mouth has been around since the beginning of time, right, Caveman, 454 00:26:44,440 --> 00:26:46,520 Speaker 1: I think the word of mouth, there's there's a great 455 00:26:46,560 --> 00:26:50,520 Speaker 1: rock out there. But this is what's so special about 456 00:26:51,119 --> 00:26:55,000 Speaker 1: our brand, American Express. And what we found is it's 457 00:26:55,040 --> 00:26:59,359 Speaker 1: just about those personal recommendations. And you know that I 458 00:26:59,440 --> 00:27:01,760 Speaker 1: know that I'm this is sort of pretty straightforward. But 459 00:27:02,280 --> 00:27:06,560 Speaker 1: what we found is that is a very powerful voice 460 00:27:06,680 --> 00:27:11,520 Speaker 1: the person that you care or trust the most. And 461 00:27:11,920 --> 00:27:14,240 Speaker 1: you know, we have a program we call Member Get Member, 462 00:27:14,240 --> 00:27:16,920 Speaker 1: and I think it's just a formalized name for that 463 00:27:16,960 --> 00:27:21,520 Speaker 1: word of mouth. And we've seen that program and the 464 00:27:21,600 --> 00:27:25,639 Speaker 1: responses to that program grow dramatically, and so we've worked 465 00:27:25,680 --> 00:27:28,639 Speaker 1: hard to sort of digitize that program, Bob, and again 466 00:27:28,720 --> 00:27:33,439 Speaker 1: seeing sort of tremendous growth in the double digits in 467 00:27:33,560 --> 00:27:36,760 Speaker 1: terms of where we're sourcing our new customers from. And 468 00:27:36,800 --> 00:27:39,320 Speaker 1: it makes complete sense to me in terms of hearing 469 00:27:39,800 --> 00:27:43,080 Speaker 1: from someone I trust and talk about American Stress and 470 00:27:43,119 --> 00:27:46,399 Speaker 1: the benefits, the products, the services in a real and 471 00:27:46,440 --> 00:27:50,800 Speaker 1: tangible way. And so we're finding that formalizing that type 472 00:27:50,800 --> 00:27:54,960 Speaker 1: of program has been incredibly helpful, resourceful for us, and 473 00:27:55,000 --> 00:27:57,920 Speaker 1: it makes sense in terms of a great product but 474 00:27:58,000 --> 00:28:00,880 Speaker 1: gets you know, sort of great recos and it's working 475 00:28:00,960 --> 00:28:04,000 Speaker 1: well for us. You're talking about the word of mouth 476 00:28:04,080 --> 00:28:06,920 Speaker 1: and the people who like the product as sort of 477 00:28:06,920 --> 00:28:09,560 Speaker 1: an extension of American Express to help with your marketing. 478 00:28:09,760 --> 00:28:11,600 Speaker 1: How do you think about it too in terms of 479 00:28:11,640 --> 00:28:14,560 Speaker 1: building brand? And I say that because in my days 480 00:28:14,600 --> 00:28:16,800 Speaker 1: at MTV or A O L, when I've had those 481 00:28:16,800 --> 00:28:20,399 Speaker 1: products where we became quote unquote the thing I always 482 00:28:20,400 --> 00:28:22,760 Speaker 1: have attributed to word of mouth that I don't. I 483 00:28:22,800 --> 00:28:25,199 Speaker 1: think all the advertising, everything we do does nothing but 484 00:28:25,320 --> 00:28:27,639 Speaker 1: prime the pump for word of mouth. But word of 485 00:28:27,640 --> 00:28:30,120 Speaker 1: mouth the only thing that will make you the thing. 486 00:28:30,680 --> 00:28:34,600 Speaker 1: American Express is the thing for many people many ways. 487 00:28:34,880 --> 00:28:37,200 Speaker 1: When I got my first American Express card in the seventies, 488 00:28:37,240 --> 00:28:39,680 Speaker 1: I thought I had arrived. How do you think about 489 00:28:39,680 --> 00:28:42,160 Speaker 1: word of mouth in terms of your brand building too? 490 00:28:42,760 --> 00:28:45,000 Speaker 1: When you say that, and you asked me that question, 491 00:28:45,640 --> 00:28:47,760 Speaker 1: you know I would still go back, certainly to the 492 00:28:47,800 --> 00:28:51,400 Speaker 1: member gut member program, but I also think about it, 493 00:28:51,440 --> 00:28:54,959 Speaker 1: and I think you were referencing this in terms of 494 00:28:55,200 --> 00:28:59,080 Speaker 1: also talking about just the incredible experiences that we have 495 00:28:59,400 --> 00:29:04,600 Speaker 1: created it over time, and those experiences maybe you'd be 496 00:29:04,640 --> 00:29:07,080 Speaker 1: surprised in terms of the breath and depth of which 497 00:29:07,080 --> 00:29:10,960 Speaker 1: I'm going to describe the experiences, and it's back again 498 00:29:11,000 --> 00:29:12,840 Speaker 1: to what we're talking about in terms of those big 499 00:29:12,880 --> 00:29:16,920 Speaker 1: moments and those little moments. So it might be you know, 500 00:29:16,960 --> 00:29:19,440 Speaker 1: being able to get you front row seats to a concert, 501 00:29:19,480 --> 00:29:22,360 Speaker 1: and certainly we're probably all craving wanting to be able 502 00:29:22,400 --> 00:29:26,080 Speaker 1: to go back to some of those moments um in time, 503 00:29:26,560 --> 00:29:28,640 Speaker 1: and I know that they will come back. I'm confident 504 00:29:28,720 --> 00:29:30,720 Speaker 1: that they will come back, you know. And some of 505 00:29:30,720 --> 00:29:34,800 Speaker 1: those are sort of one time or incredibly special moments, 506 00:29:34,840 --> 00:29:38,120 Speaker 1: whether you know, be getting to go to Coachella something 507 00:29:38,120 --> 00:29:39,840 Speaker 1: top of mind for me. More recently, it's just you know, 508 00:29:39,840 --> 00:29:42,880 Speaker 1: getting to experience the US Tennis Open, and some of 509 00:29:42,880 --> 00:29:46,880 Speaker 1: those are incredibly special in terms of what we can 510 00:29:46,960 --> 00:29:51,320 Speaker 1: do for customers. And therefore that is a special moment 511 00:29:51,760 --> 00:29:53,800 Speaker 1: because usually in all of those events, you're bringing a 512 00:29:53,840 --> 00:29:57,400 Speaker 1: family member or a friend, and it's certainly something that's 513 00:29:57,400 --> 00:30:00,240 Speaker 1: going to be with you long after that moment. And 514 00:30:00,280 --> 00:30:03,280 Speaker 1: talk about brand building, but I also talk about those 515 00:30:03,360 --> 00:30:06,360 Speaker 1: moments where you may get a text from us in 516 00:30:06,440 --> 00:30:09,840 Speaker 1: terms of a charge that appeared that is not a 517 00:30:09,920 --> 00:30:13,480 Speaker 1: charge that you made on your American Express card, and 518 00:30:13,680 --> 00:30:17,200 Speaker 1: our ability to be able to seamlessly do that in 519 00:30:17,240 --> 00:30:20,760 Speaker 1: a channel of your choice and our ability to resolve 520 00:30:20,800 --> 00:30:23,720 Speaker 1: it quickly. Have you know that we have your back 521 00:30:24,080 --> 00:30:28,760 Speaker 1: in that moment is another brand building experience and momentum 522 00:30:28,840 --> 00:30:31,320 Speaker 1: that I like to call out because it's that sort 523 00:30:31,360 --> 00:30:33,680 Speaker 1: of relief like, Oh, they've got my back, they figured 524 00:30:33,720 --> 00:30:36,160 Speaker 1: it out there on top of it, they're watching out 525 00:30:36,200 --> 00:30:39,880 Speaker 1: for me. It's those kind of moments that are so 526 00:30:40,040 --> 00:30:43,280 Speaker 1: important as well. I mentioned that I got my first 527 00:30:43,280 --> 00:30:46,600 Speaker 1: American Express card in the mid seventies. At that time, 528 00:30:47,120 --> 00:30:50,480 Speaker 1: it was very exclusive, It was very rarefied, It was 529 00:30:50,600 --> 00:30:53,760 Speaker 1: tad snobby, but it was a real status symbol I 530 00:30:53,800 --> 00:30:57,960 Speaker 1: had arrived. How has American Express been able to expand 531 00:30:57,960 --> 00:31:01,920 Speaker 1: its base so much yet still hang onto that specialness 532 00:31:02,000 --> 00:31:04,440 Speaker 1: feeling about the card may not be snobby anymore, but 533 00:31:04,520 --> 00:31:07,520 Speaker 1: I think you still feel like you're American Express cards 534 00:31:07,520 --> 00:31:10,640 Speaker 1: that special card for you too. How have you done that? 535 00:31:11,400 --> 00:31:14,560 Speaker 1: So a couple of things that I would comment on, 536 00:31:14,640 --> 00:31:16,880 Speaker 1: and it's going to be building on what we've talked 537 00:31:16,920 --> 00:31:20,600 Speaker 1: about already. Our brand is special, and I think at 538 00:31:20,640 --> 00:31:24,760 Speaker 1: the core of what makes it special, from you know, 539 00:31:24,800 --> 00:31:29,120 Speaker 1: a hundred and seventy years ago to today, is it's 540 00:31:29,160 --> 00:31:33,040 Speaker 1: all about the service, It's all about the security, it's 541 00:31:33,080 --> 00:31:37,520 Speaker 1: all about the trust. And those are three core principles 542 00:31:38,120 --> 00:31:41,760 Speaker 1: that stand the test of time and um I think 543 00:31:41,800 --> 00:31:46,200 Speaker 1: are incredibly important to what our brand is about and 544 00:31:46,280 --> 00:31:49,520 Speaker 1: also the people that want to be, you know, with 545 00:31:49,640 --> 00:31:54,560 Speaker 1: us in this American Express community. For me, that's the 546 00:31:54,600 --> 00:31:58,080 Speaker 1: specialness and the care with which you know, we take 547 00:31:58,080 --> 00:32:01,520 Speaker 1: care of our customers. And it's been important for us 548 00:32:01,560 --> 00:32:05,280 Speaker 1: to just make sure that we are an inclusive brand 549 00:32:05,880 --> 00:32:08,400 Speaker 1: and that we have a breath and depth of products 550 00:32:08,400 --> 00:32:10,720 Speaker 1: and services. And I think that that's how we have 551 00:32:11,360 --> 00:32:15,160 Speaker 1: evolved and expanded over time. For me, it's been the growth, 552 00:32:15,240 --> 00:32:18,600 Speaker 1: the depth and breadth of our portfolio, but our commitment 553 00:32:18,600 --> 00:32:23,360 Speaker 1: a hundred seventy years later to that same excellent service standard, 554 00:32:23,440 --> 00:32:26,960 Speaker 1: that security, that trust. I'm going to leave American Express 555 00:32:27,000 --> 00:32:29,200 Speaker 1: for a moment, although I'm sure you're gonna answer some 556 00:32:29,240 --> 00:32:32,520 Speaker 1: of these questions through that prism, but just as a marketer, 557 00:32:32,720 --> 00:32:35,120 Speaker 1: someone with a very broad view of what's going on 558 00:32:36,320 --> 00:32:40,880 Speaker 1: in this COVID period, what will Black Friday and Cyber 559 00:32:40,920 --> 00:32:45,520 Speaker 1: Monday be this year? Interesting question? The way I think 560 00:32:45,520 --> 00:32:48,640 Speaker 1: about that is that I'm going to go back to 561 00:32:48,760 --> 00:32:53,640 Speaker 1: sort of my personal roots in terms of shopping small 562 00:32:54,120 --> 00:32:57,160 Speaker 1: and caring about the local community. And that's been core 563 00:32:57,400 --> 00:33:00,480 Speaker 1: to who I am in terms of just how important 564 00:33:00,600 --> 00:33:05,040 Speaker 1: kind of um the neighborhood and the community is. And 565 00:33:05,120 --> 00:33:08,600 Speaker 1: so when you ask me about what those moments are 566 00:33:08,640 --> 00:33:11,760 Speaker 1: going to look like in time, I hope that they 567 00:33:12,080 --> 00:33:16,880 Speaker 1: are really focused on helping our small businesses. I luckily 568 00:33:16,880 --> 00:33:19,840 Speaker 1: have a platform here to tell others about it. They 569 00:33:19,840 --> 00:33:23,040 Speaker 1: are suffering, many of them will not be in business anymore. 570 00:33:23,760 --> 00:33:26,880 Speaker 1: And my hope is that we can support our our 571 00:33:26,920 --> 00:33:31,240 Speaker 1: local communities. Some moort those entrepreneurs their spirit to be 572 00:33:31,320 --> 00:33:35,240 Speaker 1: advocates for them. You know, they're amazing spirit that got 573 00:33:35,320 --> 00:33:37,880 Speaker 1: them to the place that they are in terms of opening, 574 00:33:37,920 --> 00:33:40,120 Speaker 1: caring and nurturing their businesses. They need our help now 575 00:33:40,560 --> 00:33:42,840 Speaker 1: and that's what I hope those two days and the 576 00:33:42,880 --> 00:33:48,840 Speaker 1: moments around them can be more about supporting the local community. Well, 577 00:33:48,880 --> 00:33:51,000 Speaker 1: we've done I think some of the best work at 578 00:33:51,000 --> 00:33:54,560 Speaker 1: I heart with American Express on Small Business Saturday, going 579 00:33:54,560 --> 00:33:57,280 Speaker 1: back really almost to the beginning of that that effort, 580 00:33:57,600 --> 00:34:01,000 Speaker 1: and so I certainly appreciate that and agree with you. 581 00:34:01,120 --> 00:34:05,320 Speaker 1: Do you think that the COVID experience has caused the 582 00:34:05,360 --> 00:34:09,960 Speaker 1: consumer to say, I'm more concerned about my community and 583 00:34:10,000 --> 00:34:12,640 Speaker 1: those people I know in my community than I am 584 00:34:12,760 --> 00:34:16,600 Speaker 1: necessarily about the lowest price. You know, I'm going to 585 00:34:16,680 --> 00:34:19,480 Speaker 1: answer that in a couple of different ways. The first 586 00:34:19,480 --> 00:34:22,000 Speaker 1: thing that comes to mind is more of a corporate answer, 587 00:34:22,000 --> 00:34:23,919 Speaker 1: and I hope you'll bear with me as I talked 588 00:34:23,920 --> 00:34:25,360 Speaker 1: to you about this. You know, I told you we 589 00:34:25,400 --> 00:34:28,520 Speaker 1: did a twelve days sprint and we got over you know, 590 00:34:28,640 --> 00:34:33,080 Speaker 1: forty and now a hundred corporations together to help with 591 00:34:33,440 --> 00:34:36,160 Speaker 1: stan Ford Small Um and to help small businesses. And 592 00:34:36,200 --> 00:34:37,719 Speaker 1: I bring that up as an example when you ask 593 00:34:37,800 --> 00:34:42,640 Speaker 1: me that question for this reason. Only imagine in twelve 594 00:34:42,719 --> 00:34:46,720 Speaker 1: days to get forty large corporations to agree on something. 595 00:34:47,440 --> 00:34:50,200 Speaker 1: And I say that because this is I think needs 596 00:34:50,200 --> 00:34:56,600 Speaker 1: to be the way forward, the power of collaboration and partnership, 597 00:34:57,560 --> 00:34:59,400 Speaker 1: even though in some cases some of us may be 598 00:34:59,520 --> 00:35:03,720 Speaker 1: competitive ears. I think that that's what's gonna move us forward. 599 00:35:04,520 --> 00:35:06,920 Speaker 1: And I use that as the example to answer your question, 600 00:35:07,200 --> 00:35:10,200 Speaker 1: because I think that that's what we're going to need 601 00:35:10,239 --> 00:35:16,759 Speaker 1: to do, is embrace our communities. So COVID nineteen probably 602 00:35:16,800 --> 00:35:20,800 Speaker 1: the biggest and swiftest change in consumer behavior in my life, 603 00:35:20,800 --> 00:35:25,080 Speaker 1: and I'm an old guy from that. What permanent changes 604 00:35:25,160 --> 00:35:28,160 Speaker 1: do you see in fundamental consumer behavior? Do you have it? 605 00:35:28,239 --> 00:35:31,400 Speaker 1: You identified some yet some trends that I think have 606 00:35:31,520 --> 00:35:36,000 Speaker 1: been accelerated, they were already happening. Um, certainly no surprise 607 00:35:36,080 --> 00:35:39,680 Speaker 1: in terms of the growth of e commerce and online behavior, 608 00:35:39,719 --> 00:35:43,240 Speaker 1: and I definitely know and see that and know that 609 00:35:43,480 --> 00:35:45,000 Speaker 1: you know that will be there. And I think we 610 00:35:45,080 --> 00:35:48,840 Speaker 1: at America Spress need to ensure that we are providing 611 00:35:48,840 --> 00:35:53,279 Speaker 1: our customers with all they need to, you know, seamlessly 612 00:35:53,760 --> 00:35:59,040 Speaker 1: make purchases online. So that's one I definitely see continuing. 613 00:35:59,440 --> 00:36:03,480 Speaker 1: Another on that I think has been accelerated is just 614 00:36:03,600 --> 00:36:06,440 Speaker 1: the nature and ways of payments. But I think you know, 615 00:36:06,480 --> 00:36:09,600 Speaker 1: you're seeing sort of a growth in terms of contactless 616 00:36:09,640 --> 00:36:13,560 Speaker 1: payments as as well, or you're seeing just changes in 617 00:36:13,640 --> 00:36:16,480 Speaker 1: terms of automation around BE two B payments as well. 618 00:36:16,560 --> 00:36:17,880 Speaker 1: So I think you're going to see a lot in 619 00:36:17,880 --> 00:36:22,080 Speaker 1: the in the overall payment space, both given COVID in 620 00:36:22,160 --> 00:36:25,120 Speaker 1: terms of sort of helping push some of those trends, 621 00:36:25,600 --> 00:36:28,040 Speaker 1: and I think that they will be there long after 622 00:36:28,520 --> 00:36:33,400 Speaker 1: the virus is certainly gone or hopefully contained. And I 623 00:36:33,560 --> 00:36:38,000 Speaker 1: also know that we will return to travel. There are 624 00:36:38,040 --> 00:36:40,640 Speaker 1: so many of us that have it in our heart 625 00:36:41,239 --> 00:36:44,719 Speaker 1: and are itching um to get out there, explore and 626 00:36:44,760 --> 00:36:48,800 Speaker 1: discover again. And I know that many consumers are starting 627 00:36:48,840 --> 00:36:52,360 Speaker 1: to do that, and I am confident that you will 628 00:36:52,719 --> 00:36:54,960 Speaker 1: see that as well, and you'll probably see it a 629 00:36:54,960 --> 00:36:58,680 Speaker 1: new and different ways, new services, new benefits that come 630 00:36:58,800 --> 00:37:01,520 Speaker 1: from the time that we've spent indoors. But I can 631 00:37:01,560 --> 00:37:06,279 Speaker 1: guarantee you that desire to explore and discover is deep 632 00:37:06,320 --> 00:37:08,880 Speaker 1: within many of us, and I know will be there 633 00:37:08,920 --> 00:37:12,399 Speaker 1: at American Express with products and services to help those 634 00:37:12,440 --> 00:37:15,480 Speaker 1: who want to travel have those great experiences. So those 635 00:37:15,480 --> 00:37:16,839 Speaker 1: are a couple of the trends that I think are 636 00:37:16,880 --> 00:37:19,680 Speaker 1: either there and been accelerating or you know, you'll see 637 00:37:19,719 --> 00:37:24,560 Speaker 1: some differences going forward. So before we close up, I 638 00:37:24,600 --> 00:37:27,200 Speaker 1: want to ask you one more piece of advice, and 639 00:37:27,280 --> 00:37:30,239 Speaker 1: this one I'm gonna ask you think of one sentence. 640 00:37:30,480 --> 00:37:34,000 Speaker 1: What would that advice be if you could, that you 641 00:37:34,000 --> 00:37:36,759 Speaker 1: would give to your twenty one year old self. I 642 00:37:36,800 --> 00:37:40,279 Speaker 1: think it's always being curious. I think curiosity kind of 643 00:37:40,280 --> 00:37:44,520 Speaker 1: fuels creativity. And then I would always want to make 644 00:37:44,560 --> 00:37:48,000 Speaker 1: sure even back then that I was asking what kind 645 00:37:48,000 --> 00:37:51,800 Speaker 1: of impact. Do you want to have? Math and magic 646 00:37:52,080 --> 00:37:56,359 Speaker 1: is about that special combination of analytics and data with 647 00:37:56,520 --> 00:38:00,000 Speaker 1: sheer creativity. Math and magic, and we end each op 648 00:38:00,000 --> 00:38:02,200 Speaker 1: episode with a shout out to the best of both. Now, 649 00:38:02,280 --> 00:38:04,799 Speaker 1: you're a great student of marketing and business. You know 650 00:38:04,880 --> 00:38:07,560 Speaker 1: many people, You've seen a lot of people, who would 651 00:38:07,560 --> 00:38:09,600 Speaker 1: you say deserves to shout out for the best in 652 00:38:09,680 --> 00:38:14,040 Speaker 1: analytics the math side of marketing. That's a somewhat easy one. 653 00:38:14,239 --> 00:38:17,319 Speaker 1: It's a fellow colleague, Douck Buckminster. He's the president of 654 00:38:17,320 --> 00:38:20,319 Speaker 1: our Global Consumer Services Group, and he just has an 655 00:38:20,360 --> 00:38:23,960 Speaker 1: amazing ability to look at a set of numbers, see trends, 656 00:38:23,960 --> 00:38:27,520 Speaker 1: see gaps, the insights, and then make it happen. It's 657 00:38:27,560 --> 00:38:31,400 Speaker 1: that applied math. It's it's brings something to life, take action, 658 00:38:31,920 --> 00:38:36,680 Speaker 1: make a difference with all of those numbers, insights and trends. Okay, 659 00:38:36,800 --> 00:38:39,279 Speaker 1: so let's go to the second one. Who is the 660 00:38:39,320 --> 00:38:42,479 Speaker 1: person who has the magic? Who gets this shout out 661 00:38:42,719 --> 00:38:46,640 Speaker 1: for being the greatest magician? Easy, easy, easy one for me, 662 00:38:46,719 --> 00:38:50,080 Speaker 1: Bob here, and that would be our creative partner and 663 00:38:50,280 --> 00:38:54,520 Speaker 1: a great brand ambassador, lin Manuel Miranda. I think his 664 00:38:54,600 --> 00:38:57,279 Speaker 1: name speaks for obviously most people know him for for 665 00:38:57,360 --> 00:39:00,520 Speaker 1: Hamilton's and he's just a creative genius on so many levels. 666 00:39:00,840 --> 00:39:03,759 Speaker 1: His creativity, and you know, he has a strong point 667 00:39:03,760 --> 00:39:09,760 Speaker 1: of view, and I think he's just his brilliance, his focus, determination, 668 00:39:10,239 --> 00:39:14,279 Speaker 1: his love of community. There's so many things there. I mean, 669 00:39:14,760 --> 00:39:18,040 Speaker 1: it's just it's definitely Lyn by Far. I love that. 670 00:39:18,160 --> 00:39:21,200 Speaker 1: I love Elizabeth. Thanks for joining us today and thanks 671 00:39:21,239 --> 00:39:25,680 Speaker 1: for sharing your ideas, insights and experiences. Thanks for having me. 672 00:39:25,719 --> 00:39:35,160 Speaker 1: Bob really appreciate it. Here are a few things I've 673 00:39:35,200 --> 00:39:38,520 Speaker 1: picked up in my conversation with Elizabeth. One, the secret 674 00:39:38,560 --> 00:39:42,040 Speaker 1: to agile decision making use a small team. When COVID 675 00:39:42,120 --> 00:39:45,880 Speaker 1: nineteen hit, American Express was quick to adapt to customers needs, 676 00:39:46,200 --> 00:39:50,200 Speaker 1: which Elizabeth attributes to a lean team. As Elizabeth says, 677 00:39:50,560 --> 00:39:52,920 Speaker 1: if you want to put your ideas in action quickly, 678 00:39:53,320 --> 00:39:55,480 Speaker 1: your team should be small enough that you can feed 679 00:39:55,520 --> 00:40:00,160 Speaker 1: them with one pizza. To navigate corporate life through the 680 00:40:00,800 --> 00:40:04,880 Speaker 1: Elizabeth's father taught her very early to make business personal, 681 00:40:05,239 --> 00:40:08,440 Speaker 1: and American Express employees are always referred to as colleagues 682 00:40:08,800 --> 00:40:13,400 Speaker 1: to foster a culture of empathy and respect. Three, If 683 00:40:13,480 --> 00:40:16,319 Speaker 1: you have a unique skill set, use it to your advantage. 684 00:40:16,640 --> 00:40:19,440 Speaker 1: Elizabeth is quick to point out that she's an introvert, 685 00:40:19,760 --> 00:40:22,560 Speaker 1: a quality that might not seem an obvious fit for 686 00:40:22,600 --> 00:40:25,919 Speaker 1: a CMO. She says it forces her to prepare well 687 00:40:26,040 --> 00:40:30,040 Speaker 1: for meetings, plus makes her a great mentor for quieter colleagues. 688 00:40:30,719 --> 00:40:35,040 Speaker 1: For leaders should be both teachers and students. As a 689 00:40:35,080 --> 00:40:38,560 Speaker 1: former high school biology teacher, Elizabeth says it's important to 690 00:40:38,600 --> 00:40:41,759 Speaker 1: maintain a sense of curiosity and understand that there's a 691 00:40:41,800 --> 00:40:45,359 Speaker 1: lot to learn from every encounter, even when you're leading 692 00:40:45,400 --> 00:40:53,000 Speaker 1: the team. I'm Bob Pittman. Thanks for listening. That's it 693 00:40:53,080 --> 00:40:55,680 Speaker 1: for today's episode. Thanks so much for listening to Math 694 00:40:55,760 --> 00:40:58,520 Speaker 1: and Magic, a production of I Heart Radio. This show 695 00:40:58,560 --> 00:41:01,720 Speaker 1: is hosted by Bob Pittman. Special thanks to Sue Schillinger 696 00:41:01,800 --> 00:41:04,200 Speaker 1: for booking and wrangling our wonderful talent, which is no 697 00:41:04,400 --> 00:41:08,440 Speaker 1: small feat Nikkiatore for pulling research, Bill Plax and Michael 698 00:41:08,440 --> 00:41:11,560 Speaker 1: Asar for their recording help, our editor Ryan Murdoch, and 699 00:41:11,600 --> 00:41:15,480 Speaker 1: of course Gayle Raoul, Eric Angel, Noel Mango and everyone 700 00:41:15,560 --> 00:41:18,719 Speaker 1: who helped bring this show to your ears. Until next time,