1 00:00:03,240 --> 00:00:06,160 Speaker 1: Welcome to stuff Mom Never told You from how stup 2 00:00:06,240 --> 00:00:14,360 Speaker 1: works dot com. Hello, and welcome to the podcast. I'm 3 00:00:14,440 --> 00:00:18,160 Speaker 1: Kristen and I'm Caroline. Caroline. I gotta tell you, I 4 00:00:18,200 --> 00:00:23,959 Speaker 1: am so impressed with your coloring book skills. So listeners, 5 00:00:24,079 --> 00:00:29,480 Speaker 1: Caroline posted a little teaser photo this week, the week 6 00:00:29,520 --> 00:00:33,120 Speaker 1: that we are recording this podcast um on Instagram of 7 00:00:33,520 --> 00:00:38,479 Speaker 1: a notorious RBG coloring that she did, and it was 8 00:00:38,520 --> 00:00:41,880 Speaker 1: so good you did shading just gave a little blush. 9 00:00:42,080 --> 00:00:46,480 Speaker 1: But I mean even there's a so the coloring book 10 00:00:47,159 --> 00:00:51,280 Speaker 1: picture that Caroline drew was Ruth Bader Ginsburg I think 11 00:00:51,280 --> 00:00:54,520 Speaker 1: on a unicorn with a rainbow in the background. But 12 00:00:54,600 --> 00:00:57,960 Speaker 1: you even did like shading in the rainbow. Yeah, yeah, 13 00:00:58,040 --> 00:01:01,920 Speaker 1: you know, darker on the ends, lighter toward the middle. 14 00:01:02,040 --> 00:01:05,560 Speaker 1: Wait until you see the shading on the unicorn's main 15 00:01:05,720 --> 00:01:07,480 Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, I just did a close up. I 16 00:01:07,480 --> 00:01:09,360 Speaker 1: just wanted to be a teaser so that people would 17 00:01:09,840 --> 00:01:14,479 Speaker 1: uh tune into our Facebook live and see it. Yeah, 18 00:01:14,640 --> 00:01:16,679 Speaker 1: which which unfortunately, by the time you're listening to this 19 00:01:17,160 --> 00:01:18,960 Speaker 1: will have already happened. But that means you can go 20 00:01:19,000 --> 00:01:23,640 Speaker 1: on to Facebook and watch it and see Caroline's full drawing. Yeah, 21 00:01:23,640 --> 00:01:27,240 Speaker 1: it was great. It was like guilty pleasure homework. Listen, listen, 22 00:01:27,280 --> 00:01:29,120 Speaker 1: let me set the scene for you. This was a 23 00:01:29,120 --> 00:01:33,440 Speaker 1: couple of days ago prior to this recording, and I 24 00:01:33,480 --> 00:01:36,240 Speaker 1: had been working for hours and hours, and I was like, 25 00:01:36,280 --> 00:01:38,920 Speaker 1: you know what I need to I need to set 26 00:01:39,000 --> 00:01:41,240 Speaker 1: us set some time for myself. You know what I'm 27 00:01:41,240 --> 00:01:44,280 Speaker 1: gonna do. I'm gonna watch the down Abbey series finale, 28 00:01:44,319 --> 00:01:47,440 Speaker 1: and I am gonna color this picture of Ruth bader 29 00:01:47,440 --> 00:01:51,120 Speaker 1: Ginsburg on a unicorn. That sounds like the perfect combination. 30 00:01:51,240 --> 00:01:52,960 Speaker 1: It was like the greatest hour and a half of 31 00:01:53,000 --> 00:01:57,960 Speaker 1: my life, well that day anyway. Well, and you are 32 00:01:58,040 --> 00:02:01,200 Speaker 1: one of just so many adults who was rediscovering the 33 00:02:01,320 --> 00:02:04,840 Speaker 1: joy of coloring. I loved it. When I was a child, 34 00:02:05,400 --> 00:02:09,200 Speaker 1: I was not so good at coloring within the lines um. 35 00:02:09,280 --> 00:02:13,680 Speaker 1: But actually for Christmas this year, uh, we we go 36 00:02:13,800 --> 00:02:15,480 Speaker 1: for Christmas dinner. Every year, we go over to our 37 00:02:15,520 --> 00:02:19,239 Speaker 1: neighbor's house and have a big family dinner, and the 38 00:02:19,440 --> 00:02:24,480 Speaker 1: matriarch of that family gifted my mother and me with 39 00:02:25,160 --> 00:02:30,120 Speaker 1: coloring book calendars. So I mean it's like it was 40 00:02:30,160 --> 00:02:34,560 Speaker 1: the these intricate, intricate drawings that you have to color in, 41 00:02:34,639 --> 00:02:37,239 Speaker 1: because apparently adult coloring books can't just be like simple, 42 00:02:37,320 --> 00:02:39,880 Speaker 1: they can't just be Ruth Bader Ginsburg on a unicorn 43 00:02:41,240 --> 00:02:44,800 Speaker 1: and it's beautiful, Like you have a different illustration for 44 00:02:44,840 --> 00:02:46,680 Speaker 1: every month and you can color it in ever you 45 00:02:46,760 --> 00:02:49,440 Speaker 1: like and it and it was really nice. I don't 46 00:02:49,480 --> 00:02:51,160 Speaker 1: give myself as much time to do it as I 47 00:02:51,160 --> 00:02:53,760 Speaker 1: would like. Um, because it is a nice way to 48 00:02:53,800 --> 00:02:55,400 Speaker 1: like have something to do with your hands while you're 49 00:02:55,440 --> 00:02:58,120 Speaker 1: watching TV so that you don't feel like you're wasting time. 50 00:02:58,440 --> 00:03:00,120 Speaker 1: You need to find a new down n Abbey. It 51 00:03:00,160 --> 00:03:02,959 Speaker 1: sounds like I know, I know. Um well, luckily House 52 00:03:02,960 --> 00:03:05,120 Speaker 1: of Cards just came back on there. Although you need 53 00:03:05,120 --> 00:03:09,799 Speaker 1: to pay attention, it's true. Yeah yeah, well but come 54 00:03:09,840 --> 00:03:13,960 Speaker 1: to find out, so in doing this uh podcast research, Yes, 55 00:03:14,000 --> 00:03:16,720 Speaker 1: we researched coloring book and it was so fun. It 56 00:03:16,800 --> 00:03:20,560 Speaker 1: was fun. But apparently this woman in Scotland, Johannah Basford, 57 00:03:20,639 --> 00:03:22,519 Speaker 1: is like a badass when it comes to coloring book 58 00:03:22,560 --> 00:03:26,720 Speaker 1: creation and illustration. And it turns out that my coloring 59 00:03:26,760 --> 00:03:31,399 Speaker 1: book Calendar is by the now famous Johannah Basford. Yeah, 60 00:03:31,440 --> 00:03:34,920 Speaker 1: I mean she it seems like, is responsible for this 61 00:03:35,040 --> 00:03:40,880 Speaker 1: whole adult coloring book massive trend and also possibly I 62 00:03:40,880 --> 00:03:46,320 Speaker 1: mean the boon to just the print industry in general. Yeah, 63 00:03:46,360 --> 00:03:48,760 Speaker 1: coloring books are a big deal right now. And the 64 00:03:48,840 --> 00:03:52,720 Speaker 1: way that Bassford ended up getting into adult coloring books, 65 00:03:52,720 --> 00:03:55,480 Speaker 1: I mean because she did not set out to become 66 00:03:55,840 --> 00:04:00,320 Speaker 1: an adult coloring book artist. Um Lawrence King pub Wishing 67 00:04:00,320 --> 00:04:02,880 Speaker 1: approached her a few years ago after seeing some of 68 00:04:03,240 --> 00:04:07,560 Speaker 1: the free desktop wallpapers that she posted online, and they 69 00:04:07,600 --> 00:04:11,120 Speaker 1: wanted to commission a children's book, but instead she pitched 70 00:04:11,160 --> 00:04:13,560 Speaker 1: them a coloring book because people had been coloring in 71 00:04:13,600 --> 00:04:16,000 Speaker 1: her wallpapers. Because what she does for people who aren't 72 00:04:16,000 --> 00:04:19,159 Speaker 1: familiar with her work, it's just a lot of really intricate, 73 00:04:19,480 --> 00:04:22,920 Speaker 1: like ink drawings. Is that the best way to describe them, Caroline? Yeah, 74 00:04:23,240 --> 00:04:26,680 Speaker 1: And I mean the publisher was skeptical, Uh this was 75 00:04:26,880 --> 00:04:32,280 Speaker 1: pre booming coloring book trend um, but then they saw 76 00:04:32,320 --> 00:04:35,000 Speaker 1: her first submissions and they were sold. So her first 77 00:04:35,080 --> 00:04:38,040 Speaker 1: creation was the coloring books Secret Garden, which is what 78 00:04:38,080 --> 00:04:40,520 Speaker 1: my calendar is based on. It's also a Secret Garden 79 00:04:40,600 --> 00:04:44,320 Speaker 1: coloring book. But I love this. It was inspired by 80 00:04:44,360 --> 00:04:48,479 Speaker 1: Scotland's Broddick Castle Gardens, where her grandfather had been the 81 00:04:48,520 --> 00:04:51,120 Speaker 1: head gardener. And now there are more than one point 82 00:04:51,200 --> 00:04:54,960 Speaker 1: five million copies in print. Yeah, and doesn't she now 83 00:04:55,000 --> 00:04:57,800 Speaker 1: have three coloring books in the series. I know. The 84 00:04:57,800 --> 00:05:00,839 Speaker 1: most recent one was Under the Sea coloring book that 85 00:05:00,880 --> 00:05:03,279 Speaker 1: I really want to get. Yeah, she has, Yeah, she 86 00:05:03,400 --> 00:05:07,440 Speaker 1: has a couple in her in her series now and 87 00:05:07,560 --> 00:05:12,480 Speaker 1: they really are these intricate, uh, intricate illustrations, like you said. 88 00:05:12,560 --> 00:05:16,000 Speaker 1: And the frustrating part because I got to the February 89 00:05:16,440 --> 00:05:19,599 Speaker 1: the February page just a lot of hearts and leaves 90 00:05:19,600 --> 00:05:23,039 Speaker 1: and stuff, and I actually had the thought, which I 91 00:05:23,120 --> 00:05:25,880 Speaker 1: never thought I would have this thought, but I actually 92 00:05:25,880 --> 00:05:30,040 Speaker 1: had the frustrated, resentful thought of like, this basic box 93 00:05:30,080 --> 00:05:33,479 Speaker 1: of colored pencils is not cutting it. I need more 94 00:05:33,600 --> 00:05:36,800 Speaker 1: color options. So now I've got a haul my butt 95 00:05:36,839 --> 00:05:38,640 Speaker 1: over to the art store that's over here by our 96 00:05:38,680 --> 00:05:42,440 Speaker 1: office and get some more colored pencils. I love that well. 97 00:05:42,480 --> 00:05:46,640 Speaker 1: And one really neat thing too about Bassford's coloring books 98 00:05:46,680 --> 00:05:52,240 Speaker 1: are that she hides images within these really intricate designs 99 00:05:52,240 --> 00:05:55,120 Speaker 1: and landscapes that she does. And that's why, um like 100 00:05:55,160 --> 00:05:59,920 Speaker 1: the series are called inky treasure hunts. Um. So it's 101 00:06:00,080 --> 00:06:03,279 Speaker 1: is so creative and she seems just like a delightful 102 00:06:03,400 --> 00:06:07,160 Speaker 1: person in general. By the way. She had an interview 103 00:06:07,279 --> 00:06:10,440 Speaker 1: over at Smart Girls at the Party, which is one 104 00:06:10,480 --> 00:06:13,880 Speaker 1: of our favorite outlets online UM, and she talked a 105 00:06:13,920 --> 00:06:17,359 Speaker 1: lot about the support that she received from her mom 106 00:06:17,560 --> 00:06:21,600 Speaker 1: friends up. I think particularly when she was making her 107 00:06:21,640 --> 00:06:24,719 Speaker 1: most recent coloring book, because I think she was a 108 00:06:24,760 --> 00:06:27,839 Speaker 1: new mom at the time, very new mom, and all 109 00:06:27,880 --> 00:06:30,000 Speaker 1: of her mom friends encouraged her to keep going and 110 00:06:30,040 --> 00:06:32,360 Speaker 1: create these books because at first she was like, there's 111 00:06:32,400 --> 00:06:35,000 Speaker 1: no way I can do this, this is just too much. 112 00:06:35,040 --> 00:06:38,279 Speaker 1: I can't possibly but she did well. Yeah, And she 113 00:06:38,360 --> 00:06:41,520 Speaker 1: told Smart Girls that all of her girlfriends, all of 114 00:06:41,560 --> 00:06:44,120 Speaker 1: these women around her told her that being a working 115 00:06:44,320 --> 00:06:47,800 Speaker 1: mum was an inspiring thing for her little girl to see, 116 00:06:47,920 --> 00:06:52,000 Speaker 1: not a setback, and she said that they removed the guilt. 117 00:06:52,320 --> 00:06:54,760 Speaker 1: They gave her the boost that she needed to remember 118 00:06:54,839 --> 00:06:58,080 Speaker 1: that she could do stuff like this. I love those girls, 119 00:06:58,120 --> 00:07:02,120 Speaker 1: she said. And it also seemed like she is really 120 00:07:02,160 --> 00:07:06,800 Speaker 1: supportive of her fellow female artists and enjoys shouting them 121 00:07:06,800 --> 00:07:10,320 Speaker 1: out as well. Um Smart Girls asked her whether there 122 00:07:10,320 --> 00:07:13,280 Speaker 1: are other lady artists out there who inspire her, and 123 00:07:13,320 --> 00:07:16,640 Speaker 1: she said, quote loads, although she clarifies that I mean, 124 00:07:16,640 --> 00:07:19,360 Speaker 1: if you look at a picture. It's not like you 125 00:07:19,400 --> 00:07:22,800 Speaker 1: can immediately tell whether she calls it it was created 126 00:07:22,840 --> 00:07:26,200 Speaker 1: by someone with a bra. But she does have a 127 00:07:26,280 --> 00:07:29,520 Speaker 1: list of other women whose vision, focus and work really 128 00:07:29,560 --> 00:07:33,160 Speaker 1: inspires her. So she called out or A Keiley, cath Kidstone, 129 00:07:33,400 --> 00:07:37,640 Speaker 1: and also Jessica Walsh. Oh, and also Beyonce. Yeah, so 130 00:07:37,680 --> 00:07:39,720 Speaker 1: she has all these different women who inspire her for 131 00:07:39,760 --> 00:07:42,640 Speaker 1: different reasons, you know, everything from their actual work to 132 00:07:42,680 --> 00:07:46,400 Speaker 1: the way they live their lives. And she cited Beyonce 133 00:07:46,720 --> 00:07:50,280 Speaker 1: as an incredible musician and so creatively clever, but also 134 00:07:50,760 --> 00:07:55,080 Speaker 1: essentially a working mom. That's true. Who isn't inspired by 135 00:07:55,080 --> 00:07:58,360 Speaker 1: Beyonce in some way? Working moms supporting working moms. Yeah, 136 00:07:58,360 --> 00:08:00,760 Speaker 1: I love it. I do love it. But it's not 137 00:08:00,840 --> 00:08:04,280 Speaker 1: just gardens and flowers and little bees drawn into the 138 00:08:04,320 --> 00:08:10,040 Speaker 1: background to find. There are plenty of absurd and feminist 139 00:08:10,240 --> 00:08:13,200 Speaker 1: offerings out there, everything from like we talked about, Ruth 140 00:08:13,200 --> 00:08:16,880 Speaker 1: Bader Ginsburg all the way to Volvo's people. Yeah, if 141 00:08:17,040 --> 00:08:20,120 Speaker 1: you want to try out this whole adult coloring thing, 142 00:08:20,240 --> 00:08:23,680 Speaker 1: there is definitely a book or a print out online 143 00:08:24,080 --> 00:08:28,000 Speaker 1: for you. Because, as we shared far and wide across 144 00:08:28,200 --> 00:08:32,800 Speaker 1: the sminty social media verse, she Knows dot Com has 145 00:08:33,280 --> 00:08:37,280 Speaker 1: free print outs of Ruth Bader Ginsburg in various scenarios, 146 00:08:37,280 --> 00:08:40,680 Speaker 1: which are fantastic. Yeah, but you can also get a 147 00:08:40,760 --> 00:08:45,360 Speaker 1: Hillary Clinton coloring book from Valentine Ramon. Unicorns Are Jerks 148 00:08:45,520 --> 00:08:49,080 Speaker 1: and Fat Ladies in Space, a body positive coloring book 149 00:08:49,080 --> 00:08:51,960 Speaker 1: We're both created by Nicole Lorenz. You've got the Big 150 00:08:52,000 --> 00:08:55,480 Speaker 1: Coloring Book of Vaginas by Morgan Hastings. Girls Are Not 151 00:08:55,760 --> 00:08:59,160 Speaker 1: Chicks by Just sent to Vanell and Julie Novak and 152 00:08:59,400 --> 00:09:02,200 Speaker 1: Coloring Outside the Kitchen by Casey Landau. Those are just 153 00:09:02,240 --> 00:09:07,120 Speaker 1: a couple. But Caroline by far the coloring book. And 154 00:09:07,120 --> 00:09:09,440 Speaker 1: this is a vintage adult coloring book we ran across. 155 00:09:09,480 --> 00:09:11,680 Speaker 1: I guess, I don't know. Is it technically adult or 156 00:09:11,679 --> 00:09:15,000 Speaker 1: more just a sex education coloring book that we ran 157 00:09:15,040 --> 00:09:20,360 Speaker 1: across on Amazon that made us just kind of stop 158 00:09:20,400 --> 00:09:24,120 Speaker 1: and stare for a moment. Is the sea word that 159 00:09:24,160 --> 00:09:28,040 Speaker 1: we can't say on the podcast? Coloring Book by t 160 00:09:28,440 --> 00:09:33,440 Speaker 1: Karin Yeah, and the description is over three dozen sea 161 00:09:33,440 --> 00:09:36,360 Speaker 1: words of every size and description for you to color. 162 00:09:36,480 --> 00:09:40,000 Speaker 1: Originally used for sex education class. Crayons not included. And 163 00:09:40,160 --> 00:09:43,480 Speaker 1: while that might sound like like a super vulgar kind 164 00:09:43,640 --> 00:09:47,120 Speaker 1: of coloring book. No. Karin had a very like feminist 165 00:09:47,160 --> 00:09:50,360 Speaker 1: intention with this. She said in ninety three, I set 166 00:09:50,360 --> 00:09:52,640 Speaker 1: out to do drawings of women's genitals for use in 167 00:09:52,720 --> 00:09:55,840 Speaker 1: sex education groups. I wanted the drawings to be lovely 168 00:09:55,880 --> 00:09:59,599 Speaker 1: and informative, to give pleasure and affirmation. I organized the 169 00:09:59,679 --> 00:10:01,839 Speaker 1: drawings into a coloring book because a major way we 170 00:10:01,920 --> 00:10:04,760 Speaker 1: learned to understand the world is children is by coloring, 171 00:10:05,160 --> 00:10:07,040 Speaker 1: and as adults, many of us will still need to 172 00:10:07,120 --> 00:10:10,040 Speaker 1: learn about our external sexual anatomy and tique her in 173 00:10:10,880 --> 00:10:14,200 Speaker 1: brilliant idea true, true, and true, although you just might 174 00:10:14,840 --> 00:10:20,160 Speaker 1: need to remarket the maybe maybe tweaked the title. UM. 175 00:10:20,200 --> 00:10:23,440 Speaker 1: I highly encourage you to go look for this book 176 00:10:23,480 --> 00:10:26,079 Speaker 1: on Amazon. Even if you don't buy it, you can 177 00:10:26,200 --> 00:10:29,600 Speaker 1: get the cover printed on a T shirt BT dubs um. 178 00:10:29,640 --> 00:10:32,920 Speaker 1: But the reviews of this book are hysterical. There are 179 00:10:32,920 --> 00:10:35,560 Speaker 1: a lot of people who are very enthusiastic about it 180 00:10:35,640 --> 00:10:37,760 Speaker 1: and think it's fabulous, whether it's because they think it's 181 00:10:37,800 --> 00:10:40,640 Speaker 1: funny or because it's educational or whatever. There was a 182 00:10:40,720 --> 00:10:43,960 Speaker 1: negative review I saw that was like the quality of 183 00:10:43,960 --> 00:10:47,959 Speaker 1: the paper subpar, subpar, one star. We've got all of 184 00:10:48,000 --> 00:10:51,400 Speaker 1: Amazon reviews. I like that that's a complaint. Um, But 185 00:10:51,679 --> 00:10:56,560 Speaker 1: all of these coloring book titles have been flourishing and 186 00:10:56,640 --> 00:10:59,680 Speaker 1: publishers are loving it. I mean they literally are having 187 00:10:59,679 --> 00:11:02,440 Speaker 1: a heart of time just keeping up with demand. Um. 188 00:11:02,480 --> 00:11:08,080 Speaker 1: In Spring, for instance, coloring book sales exploded and the 189 00:11:08,120 --> 00:11:12,680 Speaker 1: publisher Dover has racked up ten million dollars in coloring 190 00:11:12,679 --> 00:11:16,600 Speaker 1: book sales in just a few years. And I noticed 191 00:11:16,920 --> 00:11:19,840 Speaker 1: before we did this podcast, actually, Caroline, I noticed that, huh, 192 00:11:19,880 --> 00:11:24,480 Speaker 1: this must be a huge thing now because when I 193 00:11:24,520 --> 00:11:28,720 Speaker 1: was getting some lunch at Whole Foods, there was an 194 00:11:28,760 --> 00:11:33,160 Speaker 1: adult therapy coloring book right next to like the Yoga 195 00:11:33,200 --> 00:11:36,439 Speaker 1: monthly magazine. Yeah, exactly. Now I have seen that exact 196 00:11:36,520 --> 00:11:39,160 Speaker 1: same coloring book, and so it, Yeah, it makes sense 197 00:11:39,200 --> 00:11:43,480 Speaker 1: why there are so many dollars being driven by coloring books. 198 00:11:44,000 --> 00:11:47,480 Speaker 1: You've got the Quarto Publishing Group USA. Their sales have 199 00:11:47,559 --> 00:11:51,600 Speaker 1: been driven in particular by the Zen coloring Books line, 200 00:11:51,640 --> 00:11:55,360 Speaker 1: which is sold more than two hundred and seventy thousand copies. 201 00:11:55,760 --> 00:11:59,280 Speaker 1: They've got titles like Color Me Calm and Color Me Happy, 202 00:11:59,400 --> 00:12:02,959 Speaker 1: which were aided by art therapist Lacy Mucklow working with 203 00:12:03,240 --> 00:12:06,439 Speaker 1: artist Angela Porter. And you have more and more publishers 204 00:12:06,440 --> 00:12:08,760 Speaker 1: and booksellers getting in on the game too, and it 205 00:12:08,880 --> 00:12:13,240 Speaker 1: seems like they're either going the funny route with titles 206 00:12:13,320 --> 00:12:18,040 Speaker 1: like Himming Waisted or more meditative with the color Your 207 00:12:18,040 --> 00:12:22,320 Speaker 1: Way to Calm. They're so much conversation now um and 208 00:12:22,400 --> 00:12:27,520 Speaker 1: social media posts about anxiety and coloring and how it 209 00:12:27,559 --> 00:12:31,520 Speaker 1: can induce that meditative state. And as a result, though, 210 00:12:31,840 --> 00:12:35,679 Speaker 1: coloring books have consistently been in the top fifteen bestsellers 211 00:12:35,679 --> 00:12:41,880 Speaker 1: on Amazon, and Johanna Bassford's Secret Garden was Amazon's number 212 00:12:41,920 --> 00:12:44,440 Speaker 1: one best seller for a while. Yeah, and so, I 213 00:12:44,440 --> 00:12:47,920 Speaker 1: mean publishers are stoked, like obviously, like is this bringing 214 00:12:48,000 --> 00:12:49,839 Speaker 1: back print? It's probably it's not going to do anything 215 00:12:49,840 --> 00:12:54,559 Speaker 1: for newspapers. Sorry, but I mean, it really is getting 216 00:12:54,640 --> 00:12:58,720 Speaker 1: people to look away from their screens for a while, 217 00:12:58,920 --> 00:13:01,439 Speaker 1: even if they then do immediately go and post pictures 218 00:13:01,440 --> 00:13:03,520 Speaker 1: on social of their coloring like I did, which is 219 00:13:03,559 --> 00:13:05,720 Speaker 1: no big deal. And what I would not have guessed 220 00:13:05,720 --> 00:13:08,600 Speaker 1: about all of this is how this trend that we're 221 00:13:08,600 --> 00:13:13,240 Speaker 1: seeing now in the States started in France. Yeah, yeah, 222 00:13:13,280 --> 00:13:17,880 Speaker 1: I love it so coloring. Adult coloring came into vogue 223 00:13:18,240 --> 00:13:20,439 Speaker 1: in France a couple of years ago. In twenty twelve 224 00:13:20,520 --> 00:13:24,120 Speaker 1: with the book Art Therapy, one hundred anti stress coloring 225 00:13:24,160 --> 00:13:30,320 Speaker 1: pages featuring mandola like designs promising relaxation support. And the 226 00:13:30,360 --> 00:13:32,880 Speaker 1: success of this book prompted a whole series, which has 227 00:13:32,920 --> 00:13:35,720 Speaker 1: gone on to sell more than two point five million 228 00:13:35,800 --> 00:13:39,840 Speaker 1: copies in France and one million in eighteen other countries 229 00:13:39,880 --> 00:13:42,520 Speaker 1: around the world. And what's so great is that pretty 230 00:13:42,600 --> 00:13:46,720 Speaker 1: soon even fashion houses like Eve St Laurent we're getting 231 00:13:46,720 --> 00:13:49,640 Speaker 1: in on the fun, and air Maze, for instance, released 232 00:13:49,640 --> 00:13:54,199 Speaker 1: their own twelve page, one hundred and sixty dollar coloring 233 00:13:54,240 --> 00:13:57,679 Speaker 1: book that featured animals and clothes. Oh, let me just 234 00:13:57,760 --> 00:14:00,439 Speaker 1: rush out and buy myself just a few copy of that. 235 00:14:02,000 --> 00:14:04,680 Speaker 1: Just well, some to use this kindling in the fire, 236 00:14:04,760 --> 00:14:08,400 Speaker 1: but one to keep it actually color. Um. And of 237 00:14:08,440 --> 00:14:11,280 Speaker 1: course there's an Atlantic think piece about this. Yeah there, 238 00:14:11,280 --> 00:14:12,920 Speaker 1: Actually there's a couple. I was about to say, yeah, 239 00:14:12,960 --> 00:14:15,880 Speaker 1: there's more than one, um. But in this think piece 240 00:14:16,440 --> 00:14:21,480 Speaker 1: they say that a contributing factor to this starting in France, 241 00:14:21,640 --> 00:14:25,000 Speaker 1: is that French people are some of the most depressed 242 00:14:25,000 --> 00:14:27,760 Speaker 1: and anxious in the world, which I also didn't know. 243 00:14:28,000 --> 00:14:30,440 Speaker 1: I had no idea. Yeah. According to the World Health 244 00:14:30,560 --> 00:14:35,400 Speaker 1: Organization in twentleven, they found that France's lifetime rate of 245 00:14:35,560 --> 00:14:40,000 Speaker 1: major depression was higher than any of the seventeen other 246 00:14:40,080 --> 00:14:43,600 Speaker 1: countries that they surveyed. And in two thousand nine, for instance, 247 00:14:44,000 --> 00:14:49,120 Speaker 1: there were actually so many workplace suicides that companies were 248 00:14:49,120 --> 00:14:53,800 Speaker 1: prompted to hold these things called stress negotiations with employees. 249 00:14:53,960 --> 00:14:58,080 Speaker 1: And so what are these things you have to do 250 00:14:58,160 --> 00:15:01,200 Speaker 1: with each other? The whole stress and depression and anxiety 251 00:15:01,240 --> 00:15:04,520 Speaker 1: aspect and coloring, well, I mean, depending on who you 252 00:15:04,560 --> 00:15:07,440 Speaker 1: ask and what Atlantic think piece you read, it kind 253 00:15:07,440 --> 00:15:09,400 Speaker 1: of has everything to do with it. Yeah, I mean, 254 00:15:09,440 --> 00:15:13,840 Speaker 1: the whole idea is that this act of coloring reduces 255 00:15:14,000 --> 00:15:17,640 Speaker 1: your stress, it boosts mindfulness. Mindfulness is a is a 256 00:15:17,680 --> 00:15:23,720 Speaker 1: big buzzword, and the coloring book Zeitgeist um. And also 257 00:15:23,920 --> 00:15:28,400 Speaker 1: this ties into our growing conversations about being attached to screens, 258 00:15:28,440 --> 00:15:32,320 Speaker 1: about how we're working twenty four hours. Essentially we're constantly 259 00:15:32,320 --> 00:15:35,720 Speaker 1: burning out and our need for self care. Coloring is 260 00:15:36,120 --> 00:15:40,160 Speaker 1: our self care, Caroline. Yeah, And the very skeptical Cape 261 00:15:40,160 --> 00:15:43,000 Speaker 1: Mossman over at the New Statesman and just basically ties 262 00:15:43,120 --> 00:15:46,320 Speaker 1: us in with marketing genius, she says, by branding themselves 263 00:15:46,360 --> 00:15:50,560 Speaker 1: as quote analog activities, the new Coloring books sees on 264 00:15:50,600 --> 00:15:54,560 Speaker 1: our half formed anxieties about having a digital life, providing 265 00:15:54,560 --> 00:15:59,080 Speaker 1: commercially packaged, screen free pastimes that promised to reconnect us 266 00:15:59,120 --> 00:16:01,840 Speaker 1: with ourselves. She goes on to say that this now 267 00:16:01,920 --> 00:16:05,080 Speaker 1: analog hobby becomes a total craze. It's part of the 268 00:16:05,080 --> 00:16:08,640 Speaker 1: whole night guys thing. And then people turn around and 269 00:16:08,680 --> 00:16:12,880 Speaker 1: get on Twitter, Instagram anyway, just to post pictures of 270 00:16:12,920 --> 00:16:18,120 Speaker 1: their creations, like you did like Instagram. That's that is correct, 271 00:16:18,200 --> 00:16:20,000 Speaker 1: and yes, that is a plug post stuff. Mom never 272 00:16:20,040 --> 00:16:23,160 Speaker 1: told you Instagram. Um. And it's funny because I don't 273 00:16:23,200 --> 00:16:27,640 Speaker 1: think Kate Mossman is wrong. But it's just like my 274 00:16:27,760 --> 00:16:30,640 Speaker 1: overwhelming response to so many of the stuff, so many 275 00:16:30,640 --> 00:16:32,960 Speaker 1: of the sources we read about coloring books is like 276 00:16:33,280 --> 00:16:36,920 Speaker 1: chill out. Let people do whatever they're gonna do. The 277 00:16:37,080 --> 00:16:40,640 Speaker 1: skeptical sources you mean, yeah, oh yeah, I mean. And 278 00:16:40,640 --> 00:16:42,600 Speaker 1: and it is funny when you see people who are 279 00:16:42,600 --> 00:16:45,720 Speaker 1: so passionate about coloring books. But that almost like warms 280 00:16:45,760 --> 00:16:49,400 Speaker 1: my cold dead heart a little bit more. The skeptical 281 00:16:49,440 --> 00:16:51,480 Speaker 1: stuff is just like, guys, why do we care what 282 00:16:51,560 --> 00:16:53,800 Speaker 1: other people are doing with their colored pencils? I mean, 283 00:16:53,880 --> 00:16:57,240 Speaker 1: and I have oh god, I hate that I'm saying 284 00:16:57,280 --> 00:16:59,960 Speaker 1: this out loud, but I have not yet found the time, Caroline, 285 00:17:00,080 --> 00:17:04,400 Speaker 1: to sit down and try out coloring, you know, as 286 00:17:04,520 --> 00:17:08,720 Speaker 1: you know, as an adult. Um. But what you've talked about, 287 00:17:08,800 --> 00:17:11,280 Speaker 1: and also what we've read from people like Julie Beck 288 00:17:11,400 --> 00:17:14,320 Speaker 1: in The Atlantic makes total sense. I mean she describes 289 00:17:14,359 --> 00:17:16,840 Speaker 1: it as a form of meditation for people who are 290 00:17:17,200 --> 00:17:19,639 Speaker 1: too twitchy to sit still, and that's absolutely me. I 291 00:17:19,640 --> 00:17:22,480 Speaker 1: mean I have a really hard time sitting through a 292 00:17:22,520 --> 00:17:25,359 Speaker 1: whole movie if I'm not at least being what I 293 00:17:25,400 --> 00:17:29,440 Speaker 1: call productive at some point, whether it's like cleaning up 294 00:17:29,560 --> 00:17:31,680 Speaker 1: or maybe getting on my laptop to do stuff I've 295 00:17:31,720 --> 00:17:35,399 Speaker 1: never told you work. So I mean I should probably 296 00:17:35,480 --> 00:17:38,840 Speaker 1: get to coloring. Well. Yeah, and Beck also points out 297 00:17:38,920 --> 00:17:45,320 Speaker 1: that it offers the benefit of creativity without the paralysis 298 00:17:45,359 --> 00:17:47,520 Speaker 1: that a blank page can lead you to feel. She 299 00:17:47,560 --> 00:17:50,040 Speaker 1: calls us the paradox of choice. You're faced with a 300 00:17:50,040 --> 00:17:52,320 Speaker 1: blank page and you're like, oh, what do I draw? 301 00:17:52,400 --> 00:17:55,119 Speaker 1: What do I create? What do I write? Um? But 302 00:17:55,160 --> 00:17:58,120 Speaker 1: when it's a coloring book, it's like I just get 303 00:17:58,160 --> 00:18:01,520 Speaker 1: to choose my colors and blend them and shade them 304 00:18:01,560 --> 00:18:05,000 Speaker 1: and choose what color. RBGS Unicorn is going to be 305 00:18:05,880 --> 00:18:09,520 Speaker 1: UM and this, as we will talk about, has led 306 00:18:09,520 --> 00:18:14,680 Speaker 1: a lot of people to kind of tisk tisk colorers. Colorers. Well, 307 00:18:15,280 --> 00:18:18,920 Speaker 1: there is psychological support for coloring that does go back 308 00:18:18,960 --> 00:18:21,520 Speaker 1: to Carl Young. I mean, he was kind of the 309 00:18:21,600 --> 00:18:25,359 Speaker 1: original coloring therapist because he would have his patients draw 310 00:18:25,440 --> 00:18:29,720 Speaker 1: and cover mandolas because of its calming effect and to 311 00:18:29,800 --> 00:18:34,080 Speaker 1: facilitate what he called psychic integration. And this was also 312 00:18:34,160 --> 00:18:37,600 Speaker 1: backed by a study which found that activities like coloring 313 00:18:37,600 --> 00:18:43,800 Speaker 1: mandolas significantly reduce anxiety. And so researchers say that it 314 00:18:43,920 --> 00:18:47,239 Speaker 1: has this distressing effect because you get to focus on 315 00:18:47,280 --> 00:18:50,760 Speaker 1: a particular task, take your mind off your worries, and 316 00:18:50,840 --> 00:18:53,480 Speaker 1: it also sort of links you subconsciously back to a 317 00:18:53,680 --> 00:18:57,439 Speaker 1: simpler time, presumably a simpler time of childhood when you 318 00:18:57,480 --> 00:19:02,480 Speaker 1: did have, however, much time to play and color and 319 00:19:02,560 --> 00:19:05,359 Speaker 1: you know whatever, whatever those coloring books might have been. 320 00:19:06,320 --> 00:19:10,640 Speaker 1: UM and huff Huffington Post talk to psychologist Gloria Martinez Ayala, 321 00:19:10,720 --> 00:19:14,280 Speaker 1: who said that when we color, we are actually activating 322 00:19:14,320 --> 00:19:17,760 Speaker 1: all different parts of our brain. We're using logic, so 323 00:19:17,800 --> 00:19:20,959 Speaker 1: we're coloring existing forms and coloring them inside the lines, 324 00:19:21,240 --> 00:19:23,840 Speaker 1: but we're also blending that with creativity because we're having 325 00:19:23,920 --> 00:19:27,359 Speaker 1: to mix and match and choose colors. And so she 326 00:19:27,440 --> 00:19:30,199 Speaker 1: says that we are incorporating areas in our brain that 327 00:19:30,240 --> 00:19:34,080 Speaker 1: are involved in both fine motor skills and vision. Yeah yeah, 328 00:19:34,119 --> 00:19:37,200 Speaker 1: hold that pencil just right. But also that it lowers 329 00:19:37,280 --> 00:19:40,119 Speaker 1: activity in the amygdala, which is an area involved in 330 00:19:40,160 --> 00:19:43,360 Speaker 1: controlling emotions, and it's also affected a lot by stress. 331 00:19:43,560 --> 00:19:44,919 Speaker 1: And one thing that jumped out to me in one 332 00:19:44,920 --> 00:19:48,320 Speaker 1: of these pieces where a woman was talking about how 333 00:19:48,400 --> 00:19:53,440 Speaker 1: therapeutic coloring has been for her, she never goes back 334 00:19:53,520 --> 00:19:56,159 Speaker 1: and looks at what she's colored before it. Also, I 335 00:19:56,200 --> 00:19:59,560 Speaker 1: mean it kind of reminds me of the yoga ethos 336 00:19:59,600 --> 00:20:01,879 Speaker 1: of just sort of letting things go. You're in the 337 00:20:01,960 --> 00:20:05,720 Speaker 1: moment and then you just turn the page, or like journaling. Yeah, 338 00:20:05,760 --> 00:20:07,639 Speaker 1: I mean if you journal and you just you write 339 00:20:07,640 --> 00:20:10,600 Speaker 1: down the days, fears, worries, woes and just kind of 340 00:20:10,640 --> 00:20:14,399 Speaker 1: leave it behind. Well, and that echoes exactly Caroline. What 341 00:20:14,520 --> 00:20:19,560 Speaker 1: psychologists Antoni Martinez said that we can use this coloring 342 00:20:19,600 --> 00:20:23,000 Speaker 1: to enter a quote more creative, freer state and also 343 00:20:23,160 --> 00:20:28,240 Speaker 1: connect with how we feel, because Martinez suggests that our 344 00:20:28,680 --> 00:20:31,320 Speaker 1: color choices are sort of like mood rings. They tell 345 00:20:31,400 --> 00:20:34,440 Speaker 1: us how we're feeling. So if I ever sit down 346 00:20:34,520 --> 00:20:38,199 Speaker 1: and just color Ruth Bader Ginsburg on a unicorn, just 347 00:20:38,280 --> 00:20:40,920 Speaker 1: fill it all in with a with an unfortunate green, 348 00:20:41,080 --> 00:20:44,560 Speaker 1: then I probably need to take a vacation. Probably, But 349 00:20:44,640 --> 00:20:47,359 Speaker 1: luckily you can print out more copies of that. Yeah, 350 00:20:47,440 --> 00:20:50,639 Speaker 1: And also chances are it's probably just a case that 351 00:20:50,680 --> 00:20:54,440 Speaker 1: I only had a green craze on. You you bring 352 00:20:54,520 --> 00:20:57,520 Speaker 1: years into work and it's just like scribbled all over. Yeah, 353 00:20:57,560 --> 00:20:59,960 Speaker 1: I just have one of those, um like a broken 354 00:21:00,000 --> 00:21:02,840 Speaker 1: off restaurant crayon. You know that people give kids those 355 00:21:02,880 --> 00:21:09,880 Speaker 1: little stubs. Well, so everybody, though, from psychologists to artists 356 00:21:09,920 --> 00:21:15,280 Speaker 1: and art therapists, are understandably dubious about the coloring book 357 00:21:15,320 --> 00:21:20,199 Speaker 1: trend only as it relates to like mindfulness and stress relief. 358 00:21:20,880 --> 00:21:22,760 Speaker 1: But we'll get right back into that, and we come 359 00:21:22,840 --> 00:21:29,640 Speaker 1: right back from a quick break. Caroline, I'm super excited 360 00:21:29,680 --> 00:21:33,440 Speaker 1: to talk about Lola because Lola is a tampon service, 361 00:21:33,640 --> 00:21:36,440 Speaker 1: and obviously on stuff I've never told you. We love 362 00:21:36,440 --> 00:21:40,200 Speaker 1: pretty much anything that has to do with periods and tampons, 363 00:21:40,560 --> 00:21:43,879 Speaker 1: And the great thing about Lola is a the box 364 00:21:43,880 --> 00:21:47,320 Speaker 1: they come in is beautiful. It's super fancy. 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To 381 00:22:41,000 --> 00:22:46,000 Speaker 1: get one cotton tampons, go to my Lola dot com 382 00:22:46,200 --> 00:22:55,600 Speaker 1: entercode mom Stuff. So Caroline, how get someone possibly bad 383 00:22:55,680 --> 00:23:02,640 Speaker 1: mouth coloring? It seems like just the most innocent of hobbies. 384 00:23:02,960 --> 00:23:07,119 Speaker 1: I I absolutely think it's innocent. I mean, I for me, like, 385 00:23:07,200 --> 00:23:09,760 Speaker 1: the only way to possibly bad mouth coloring would be 386 00:23:09,800 --> 00:23:13,480 Speaker 1: like Caroline, you should be doing the laundry instead, But 387 00:23:13,640 --> 00:23:15,520 Speaker 1: while you're doing the laundry, why not color? I mean 388 00:23:15,520 --> 00:23:18,360 Speaker 1: at all? It all just works out and you get 389 00:23:18,400 --> 00:23:21,080 Speaker 1: to see the color spread across the page. I guess 390 00:23:21,160 --> 00:23:23,000 Speaker 1: maybe I like coloring for the same reason that I 391 00:23:23,080 --> 00:23:29,040 Speaker 1: like laundry, because you literally immediately get to see the progress. Anyway, 392 00:23:29,080 --> 00:23:32,040 Speaker 1: I like these connections. We're making. So many you guys 393 00:23:32,040 --> 00:23:35,960 Speaker 1: are learning so many, like really boring facts about me today. 394 00:23:36,200 --> 00:23:40,480 Speaker 1: I would call them colorful facts. Oh yeah, there we go. 395 00:23:41,240 --> 00:23:45,640 Speaker 1: Um well, you know for starters, people do point out 396 00:23:45,840 --> 00:23:51,840 Speaker 1: that these intricate adult coloring books creations like the ones 397 00:23:51,920 --> 00:23:56,440 Speaker 1: that Johanna Basford makes, are pretty difficult, and that they're 398 00:23:56,480 --> 00:24:00,600 Speaker 1: like almost impossible to finish. I have only done I 399 00:24:00,600 --> 00:24:04,879 Speaker 1: haven't gotten a March yet. Sorry sorry people, But for 400 00:24:05,000 --> 00:24:07,760 Speaker 1: January and February and my coloring calendar, I've only finished 401 00:24:07,760 --> 00:24:10,000 Speaker 1: like half of each drawing. Oh I bet, I mean 402 00:24:10,000 --> 00:24:13,480 Speaker 1: I think it would take hours to complete a bastard 403 00:24:13,720 --> 00:24:17,520 Speaker 1: page and my hand starts to hurt. Yet a little 404 00:24:17,560 --> 00:24:20,000 Speaker 1: stress ball with those little squeezy Now I should I 405 00:24:20,000 --> 00:24:22,439 Speaker 1: should get one of those like carpal tunnel braces. Oh 406 00:24:22,520 --> 00:24:24,280 Speaker 1: my gosh, I really hope to come to work one 407 00:24:24,359 --> 00:24:27,280 Speaker 1: day and see you, you know, with our standing stand 408 00:24:27,320 --> 00:24:29,760 Speaker 1: up desks next to each other, just like soaking your 409 00:24:30,040 --> 00:24:32,200 Speaker 1: your little coloring hand in an ups some salt bath. 410 00:24:32,560 --> 00:24:35,639 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, no, and we will talk about the importance 411 00:24:35,640 --> 00:24:38,720 Speaker 1: of that. Um. But yeah, A lot of people are like, sure, 412 00:24:38,960 --> 00:24:41,840 Speaker 1: it allows you to focus, like you can sit down 413 00:24:41,920 --> 00:24:44,960 Speaker 1: and focus on the exact shade of rbg's rainbow. But 414 00:24:45,920 --> 00:24:49,680 Speaker 1: are we trying to elevate this beyond just a kitty pastime. 415 00:24:49,800 --> 00:24:53,720 Speaker 1: Is it really fostering or helping creativity at all? Because 416 00:24:53,800 --> 00:24:56,720 Speaker 1: that's that seems to be the main fear, is that 417 00:24:56,880 --> 00:25:00,200 Speaker 1: we're stunting true creativity, whether you are a child, old 418 00:25:00,280 --> 00:25:04,520 Speaker 1: or an adult, and that it's being falsely sold as therapy. 419 00:25:04,640 --> 00:25:08,280 Speaker 1: And one of the biggest voices with this concern in 420 00:25:08,320 --> 00:25:12,040 Speaker 1: our in our modern age anyway, is one Susan Striker, 421 00:25:12,080 --> 00:25:14,359 Speaker 1: who in the late seventies and early eighties she's an 422 00:25:14,400 --> 00:25:18,280 Speaker 1: art teacher. She published her anti coloring book series, one 423 00:25:18,320 --> 00:25:21,520 Speaker 1: for kids and one for adults to basically try to 424 00:25:21,560 --> 00:25:25,560 Speaker 1: push back against the damaging effects of such a strictly 425 00:25:25,640 --> 00:25:29,480 Speaker 1: defined and what she called creativity limiting task, one that 426 00:25:29,600 --> 00:25:34,960 Speaker 1: she felt turned children into robots. Yeah, so the anti 427 00:25:35,080 --> 00:25:40,479 Speaker 1: coloring book might contain, say, part of a picture of 428 00:25:41,280 --> 00:25:44,159 Speaker 1: a horse. Maybe it has like the head, and it 429 00:25:44,160 --> 00:25:45,960 Speaker 1: would be like, okay, here's the head of a horse. 430 00:25:46,080 --> 00:25:49,000 Speaker 1: Now you draw the res But for someone like me 431 00:25:49,080 --> 00:25:52,280 Speaker 1: who cannot, I'm not very good at drawing, Caroline, it 432 00:25:52,359 --> 00:25:54,440 Speaker 1: is not it's not in my skill set, and that's 433 00:25:54,480 --> 00:25:57,879 Speaker 1: totally fine. The anti coloring book would have made me 434 00:25:57,920 --> 00:26:01,679 Speaker 1: so distressed as a child, and that horse would have 435 00:26:02,119 --> 00:26:03,960 Speaker 1: would have been a hot mess. You would have just 436 00:26:04,119 --> 00:26:06,160 Speaker 1: colored the head and then it would have been like 437 00:26:06,320 --> 00:26:09,800 Speaker 1: and Kristen actually just has the Godfather coloring book, Like 438 00:26:09,880 --> 00:26:15,680 Speaker 1: draw a bed around this dismembered exactly And I could 439 00:26:15,680 --> 00:26:19,480 Speaker 1: handle a bed. It's just the rectangle with more rectangles 440 00:26:19,520 --> 00:26:22,399 Speaker 1: for pillows were rectangles and then another rectangle for the 441 00:26:22,440 --> 00:26:25,720 Speaker 1: blanket across. Yeah, we're about on the same. I like 442 00:26:25,800 --> 00:26:29,919 Speaker 1: your god Father coloring book, Caroline, which probably exists. But 443 00:26:30,480 --> 00:26:33,920 Speaker 1: back to Susan Striker, of course, people have asked her 444 00:26:33,960 --> 00:26:37,439 Speaker 1: what she thinks about the revived trend. Yeah, she's not pleased. 445 00:26:37,480 --> 00:26:39,679 Speaker 1: She says, well, yeah, if you I'm just this, this 446 00:26:39,760 --> 00:26:41,480 Speaker 1: is me projecting a tone. If you want to use 447 00:26:41,520 --> 00:26:44,800 Speaker 1: more therapy speak, I'm projecting right now. But Striker says, yeah, 448 00:26:44,800 --> 00:26:47,080 Speaker 1: I mean, if you want to turn off your mind 449 00:26:47,680 --> 00:26:50,200 Speaker 1: instead of turning it up, then coloring is one way 450 00:26:50,240 --> 00:26:52,160 Speaker 1: to do it. It can allow you to tune out 451 00:26:52,160 --> 00:26:54,800 Speaker 1: of your life. And it's a choice. Should I take 452 00:26:54,800 --> 00:26:57,639 Speaker 1: a drink or drugs or pick up a coloring book, 453 00:26:58,280 --> 00:27:02,080 Speaker 1: Susan Striker, Yeah, invite her to your wine and coloring 454 00:27:02,160 --> 00:27:06,600 Speaker 1: party seriously, which I want to have? Um. But she 455 00:27:06,720 --> 00:27:09,080 Speaker 1: goes on to say, because she's not, she's not done, 456 00:27:09,119 --> 00:27:11,280 Speaker 1: nor should she be. Susan, We're not trying to silence you. 457 00:27:12,000 --> 00:27:15,280 Speaker 1: She says. People really have been educated to believe that 458 00:27:15,359 --> 00:27:17,920 Speaker 1: they cannot do art. And I can see where she's 459 00:27:17,960 --> 00:27:20,280 Speaker 1: coming from, Like, I mean, how many you've got all 460 00:27:20,280 --> 00:27:22,480 Speaker 1: of these math classes? How many art classes do you have? 461 00:27:22,600 --> 00:27:25,320 Speaker 1: You know, I loved art as a kid, I just 462 00:27:25,840 --> 00:27:28,439 Speaker 1: didn't always have time to pursue it. She says, a 463 00:27:28,480 --> 00:27:31,320 Speaker 1: coloring book can help you empty out your mind. Yet 464 00:27:31,359 --> 00:27:35,480 Speaker 1: to be mindful is not to escape from your problems, 465 00:27:35,520 --> 00:27:38,479 Speaker 1: but to face them head on. The new mindful coloring 466 00:27:38,480 --> 00:27:41,960 Speaker 1: books are mindless. You should be drawing your own pictures. 467 00:27:42,359 --> 00:27:45,600 Speaker 1: But again to Susan Striker, I say, what if what 468 00:27:45,680 --> 00:27:50,320 Speaker 1: if I cannot draw my own pictures? Like literally I can't? Yeah? Well, 469 00:27:50,480 --> 00:27:52,199 Speaker 1: or what if you just don't feel like it? Or 470 00:27:52,200 --> 00:27:55,360 Speaker 1: what if you just really seriously enjoy shading in a rainbow? 471 00:27:55,840 --> 00:27:59,520 Speaker 1: That should be fine. Not to speak from personal experience, right, Caroline, 472 00:28:00,280 --> 00:28:03,720 Speaker 1: for sure, but stop telling people should that's my big thing, 473 00:28:03,840 --> 00:28:08,560 Speaker 1: talk about throwing some shade. Huh. Coloring puns ain't gonna stop, 474 00:28:10,160 --> 00:28:13,760 Speaker 1: can't stop, won't stop. Um. But it's not just Striker. 475 00:28:13,760 --> 00:28:15,359 Speaker 1: I mean there are a lot of psychologists who are 476 00:28:15,359 --> 00:28:18,960 Speaker 1: decidedly not on board as well, and they draw distinctions 477 00:28:19,080 --> 00:28:24,320 Speaker 1: between art and coloring. Uh. Kathy Malchiote told The Guardian 478 00:28:24,359 --> 00:28:28,439 Speaker 1: that well, studies have indeed confirmed the benefits of engaging 479 00:28:28,480 --> 00:28:32,320 Speaker 1: in creative hobbies, whether it's painting or drawing or writing 480 00:28:32,400 --> 00:28:39,000 Speaker 1: or whatever, that pursuit doesn't involve coloring in someone else's designs. 481 00:28:39,040 --> 00:28:41,120 Speaker 1: And I feel like there's a little bit of like 482 00:28:42,640 --> 00:28:45,560 Speaker 1: I want to say, like art classism here going on, 483 00:28:45,760 --> 00:28:50,760 Speaker 1: because why why poo poo, someone's chosen creative hobby if 484 00:28:50,760 --> 00:28:52,760 Speaker 1: it's what they want to do when they get enjoyment 485 00:28:52,800 --> 00:28:55,600 Speaker 1: out of it. Yeah, it's not like people are coloring 486 00:28:55,720 --> 00:28:58,440 Speaker 1: and then suddenly declaring themselves artists and trying to sell 487 00:28:58,480 --> 00:29:01,400 Speaker 1: their coloring book pages and alleries. Or maybe they are. 488 00:29:01,680 --> 00:29:05,760 Speaker 1: They are and very ambitious. Um, and along those same 489 00:29:05,800 --> 00:29:08,440 Speaker 1: lines of kind of the the snobbery of it all, 490 00:29:08,880 --> 00:29:13,400 Speaker 1: the anti coloring book argument that made me WinCE the most, 491 00:29:13,480 --> 00:29:18,120 Speaker 1: which I think was in the New Yorker of surprise. Um, 492 00:29:18,200 --> 00:29:23,560 Speaker 1: we're some people saying that this is just another millennial 493 00:29:23,640 --> 00:29:30,280 Speaker 1: trend of us reverting because we now have adult summer camps, 494 00:29:30,360 --> 00:29:33,920 Speaker 1: we go to adult sleepovers, and we're trying to recapture 495 00:29:34,040 --> 00:29:36,479 Speaker 1: this childhood that never even really existed. And look at 496 00:29:36,560 --> 00:29:40,240 Speaker 1: us now, we're just coloring. So we're just infantilizing ourselves. 497 00:29:40,280 --> 00:29:44,280 Speaker 1: Which I say what you said earlier, like maybe you 498 00:29:44,280 --> 00:29:46,760 Speaker 1: should go color and calm down a little bit and 499 00:29:46,880 --> 00:29:49,600 Speaker 1: let let me relax how I care to. It's a 500 00:29:49,680 --> 00:29:51,720 Speaker 1: much healthier way of relaxing than a lot of other 501 00:29:51,720 --> 00:29:54,840 Speaker 1: things we could be doing. Exactly, and I emphatically say 502 00:29:54,880 --> 00:29:59,240 Speaker 1: that no, this is not quote unquote just a millennial trend. 503 00:29:59,320 --> 00:30:01,800 Speaker 1: Sure there are people around our age and younger who 504 00:30:01,880 --> 00:30:05,200 Speaker 1: are doing it and creating like really those really quirky, 505 00:30:05,240 --> 00:30:07,640 Speaker 1: funny coloring books that we mentioned earlier in the podcast, 506 00:30:08,800 --> 00:30:12,120 Speaker 1: But I'm sorry, Like, when you go on articles and 507 00:30:12,160 --> 00:30:16,080 Speaker 1: think pieces about coloring and coloring books, inevitably the women 508 00:30:16,120 --> 00:30:20,280 Speaker 1: who are quoted and the women who are commenting are 509 00:30:20,320 --> 00:30:24,160 Speaker 1: really closer to our mother's ages than they are ours. 510 00:30:24,520 --> 00:30:26,600 Speaker 1: And would you say the same thing for guys who 511 00:30:26,680 --> 00:30:29,160 Speaker 1: pop up in those articles and comments sections. I would 512 00:30:29,200 --> 00:30:31,200 Speaker 1: say the same and we will talk a little bit 513 00:30:31,240 --> 00:30:34,880 Speaker 1: more about gender divisions and coloring books and characters and 514 00:30:34,920 --> 00:30:37,200 Speaker 1: all of that stuff. But yeah, it does seem to be, like, 515 00:30:39,400 --> 00:30:42,880 Speaker 1: I mean, kind of a lady pastime. But really that 516 00:30:42,960 --> 00:30:45,480 Speaker 1: age division is what jumped out to me. Well, and 517 00:30:45,520 --> 00:30:50,440 Speaker 1: that's one reason too why the Guardian publish an article 518 00:30:50,680 --> 00:30:54,880 Speaker 1: on the health risks of coloring, which I know that 519 00:30:54,960 --> 00:30:58,240 Speaker 1: might sound wild, but I mean, particularly for these older 520 00:30:58,280 --> 00:31:00,560 Speaker 1: people who might have if they are hard, they might 521 00:31:00,600 --> 00:31:02,480 Speaker 1: just have like extra time and they will people will 522 00:31:02,480 --> 00:31:04,400 Speaker 1: color for hours and hours, like the people they were 523 00:31:04,400 --> 00:31:09,200 Speaker 1: interviewing for this article color for like four plus hours 524 00:31:09,240 --> 00:31:12,800 Speaker 1: a day. Um. And the one woman, for instance, who 525 00:31:12,840 --> 00:31:16,120 Speaker 1: kind of kicked off the story has I don't know 526 00:31:16,160 --> 00:31:18,120 Speaker 1: if it was carpal tunnel, but she has to put 527 00:31:18,120 --> 00:31:20,440 Speaker 1: on like a handbrace and a back brace and a 528 00:31:20,840 --> 00:31:22,720 Speaker 1: you know, she has to ice her neck all these 529 00:31:22,760 --> 00:31:27,440 Speaker 1: things just to get her ready to color. Because if 530 00:31:27,520 --> 00:31:30,920 Speaker 1: you are gripping that little crayon and you're hunched over 531 00:31:32,040 --> 00:31:34,600 Speaker 1: the coloring book or the piece of paper, it's not 532 00:31:34,760 --> 00:31:37,320 Speaker 1: very good for you to sit like that for four hours, 533 00:31:37,680 --> 00:31:40,280 Speaker 1: especially like you know, I I remember being a student 534 00:31:40,320 --> 00:31:42,719 Speaker 1: in high school and college and taking endless notes and 535 00:31:42,760 --> 00:31:45,920 Speaker 1: writing endless papers by hand. Um, and so I was 536 00:31:45,960 --> 00:31:48,440 Speaker 1: just conditioned to it. But yeah, that first time that 537 00:31:48,520 --> 00:31:50,520 Speaker 1: I took those colored pencils out of the box to 538 00:31:50,720 --> 00:31:55,200 Speaker 1: color in my calendar, um, yeah, my hand hurt real fast. 539 00:31:55,760 --> 00:31:57,720 Speaker 1: And one of the people in that article equates it 540 00:31:57,760 --> 00:32:00,120 Speaker 1: to basically running a marathon if you're not even that 541 00:32:00,200 --> 00:32:02,760 Speaker 1: much of a jogger. Basically, like you've got to prep 542 00:32:03,320 --> 00:32:05,120 Speaker 1: You've got to prepare yourself and know how to know 543 00:32:05,200 --> 00:32:08,560 Speaker 1: how to stretch and take breaks, uh, and condition yourself. 544 00:32:08,640 --> 00:32:12,360 Speaker 1: They talked about using splints and braces and support tape 545 00:32:12,960 --> 00:32:15,440 Speaker 1: soak your wrist or your hand in hot wax or 546 00:32:15,480 --> 00:32:17,600 Speaker 1: EPs some salt. One woman was like, Oh, I just 547 00:32:17,640 --> 00:32:19,840 Speaker 1: go get a manicure so that I can get a 548 00:32:19,840 --> 00:32:22,840 Speaker 1: hand massage. You soak your hand in hot wax? Oh, 549 00:32:22,880 --> 00:32:24,400 Speaker 1: you know, like when you go too. Have you ever 550 00:32:24,440 --> 00:32:26,680 Speaker 1: gone to a spa and gotten the wax on your hands? 551 00:32:26,720 --> 00:32:29,680 Speaker 1: I guess not. It's in like And I'm not kidding. 552 00:32:29,760 --> 00:32:32,239 Speaker 1: I'm sure that there are salons and spas out there 553 00:32:32,240 --> 00:32:35,840 Speaker 1: who like have something that's specifically for this purpose, but 554 00:32:35,880 --> 00:32:38,520 Speaker 1: they're seriously like wax and it's just warm. It's not 555 00:32:38,560 --> 00:32:40,440 Speaker 1: like it's not like the Ricky Martin video where you're 556 00:32:40,440 --> 00:32:43,160 Speaker 1: pouring like hot candle wax on some guy's chest. Like 557 00:32:44,040 --> 00:32:47,320 Speaker 1: it's a croc pot set too low and they put 558 00:32:47,320 --> 00:32:49,360 Speaker 1: wax in it and you just like soak and it's 559 00:32:49,360 --> 00:32:52,960 Speaker 1: suppist to lock in moisture or whatever, and and I 560 00:32:53,000 --> 00:32:57,240 Speaker 1: can't vouch for any effectiveness, but it sure feels really cool. Yeah. 561 00:32:57,280 --> 00:32:59,360 Speaker 1: When I heard a soak in hot wax, I just 562 00:32:59,360 --> 00:33:01,480 Speaker 1: thought of like the hot wax they used to wax 563 00:33:01,520 --> 00:33:05,200 Speaker 1: your eyebrows. That does sound incredibly painful, but no, I 564 00:33:05,200 --> 00:33:08,120 Speaker 1: mean yeah, I mean that does sound incredibly painful, And 565 00:33:08,680 --> 00:33:11,560 Speaker 1: there are painful ways to go about coloring. But I 566 00:33:11,600 --> 00:33:14,959 Speaker 1: mean there are people who I mean specifically women who 567 00:33:15,000 --> 00:33:18,120 Speaker 1: were quoted in the article is saying that it took 568 00:33:18,160 --> 00:33:21,400 Speaker 1: their minds off of not only mental health stuff of 569 00:33:21,440 --> 00:33:24,520 Speaker 1: like whatever depression or anxiety they were feeling that day, 570 00:33:24,600 --> 00:33:26,800 Speaker 1: but also takes their mind off of the back pain. 571 00:33:26,880 --> 00:33:29,280 Speaker 1: And I guess that that does come down to how 572 00:33:29,320 --> 00:33:32,160 Speaker 1: you're doing it, if you are sitting properly, if you're 573 00:33:32,160 --> 00:33:35,960 Speaker 1: in an ergonomic setup and not stressing your muscles out 574 00:33:36,000 --> 00:33:40,880 Speaker 1: too much to help avoid like worsening or getting period 575 00:33:40,960 --> 00:33:45,240 Speaker 1: aches and pains. Well, when coloring books were first invented, 576 00:33:45,480 --> 00:33:47,920 Speaker 1: that seems weird to call it something invented, but obviously 577 00:33:47,960 --> 00:33:50,960 Speaker 1: they were, you know, the first ones when they were invented. 578 00:33:51,040 --> 00:33:53,840 Speaker 1: Of course we didn't have crayons. We weren't gripping onto 579 00:33:53,840 --> 00:33:59,040 Speaker 1: our crayons because when they arrived in the late nineteenth century, 580 00:33:59,400 --> 00:34:04,440 Speaker 1: they were actually called painting books because no crayons. And 581 00:34:04,560 --> 00:34:09,320 Speaker 1: in eighteen eighty the Little Folks Painting Book is considered 582 00:34:09,360 --> 00:34:13,480 Speaker 1: the first popular painting book or the kind of early 583 00:34:13,760 --> 00:34:17,759 Speaker 1: coloring book. Yeah, and so their popularity was really helped 584 00:34:17,800 --> 00:34:22,000 Speaker 1: along by better printing technology and cheaper paper. Uh, something 585 00:34:22,040 --> 00:34:24,560 Speaker 1: that some of those Amazon reviewers of the C Word 586 00:34:24,560 --> 00:34:28,680 Speaker 1: Coloring Book would just not be pleased with. Um. But 587 00:34:28,760 --> 00:34:30,799 Speaker 1: the thing is, it's hard to pin down exactly when 588 00:34:30,800 --> 00:34:33,320 Speaker 1: we got our first painting book or coloring book because 589 00:34:33,320 --> 00:34:37,359 Speaker 1: there was no copyright law, so illustrations were just stolen 590 00:34:37,600 --> 00:34:43,520 Speaker 1: willy nilly. And one of those early painting book illustrators 591 00:34:43,520 --> 00:34:46,960 Speaker 1: who had her stuff stolen was Kate Greenaway. And this 592 00:34:47,000 --> 00:34:48,960 Speaker 1: is really just this a little historical side note, but 593 00:34:49,000 --> 00:34:52,600 Speaker 1: I thought it was worth mentioning. Her illustrations were in 594 00:34:52,719 --> 00:34:55,439 Speaker 1: some of those earliest coloring books, the Little Folks Painting Book, 595 00:34:55,480 --> 00:34:59,400 Speaker 1: but also the Little Folks Nature Painting Book. Um, but 596 00:35:00,040 --> 00:35:03,120 Speaker 1: we're not sure, like did she actually create those images 597 00:35:03,160 --> 00:35:06,200 Speaker 1: for the coloring books or were they stolen by the publisher. 598 00:35:06,239 --> 00:35:07,600 Speaker 1: A lot of people seem to think that they were 599 00:35:07,640 --> 00:35:10,080 Speaker 1: kind of just ripped off. Yeah, I mean she Kate 600 00:35:10,160 --> 00:35:14,799 Speaker 1: Greenaway too seems like the Charles Dana Gibson of like 601 00:35:15,200 --> 00:35:19,080 Speaker 1: children's culture and fashion of the time. So Charles Sana 602 00:35:19,120 --> 00:35:22,759 Speaker 1: Gibson being the illustrator who created the Gibson Girls silhouette 603 00:35:22,760 --> 00:35:27,480 Speaker 1: and style and Kate Greenaways drawings or illustrations of children 604 00:35:27,600 --> 00:35:32,000 Speaker 1: and also their clothes were extremely influential in what the 605 00:35:32,040 --> 00:35:37,560 Speaker 1: little children's little folks as they called them, we're wearing. UM, 606 00:35:37,600 --> 00:35:40,920 Speaker 1: and early education experts I guess is in the around 607 00:35:40,960 --> 00:35:44,480 Speaker 1: the turn of the century encourage using coloring books to 608 00:35:44,560 --> 00:35:49,120 Speaker 1: promote creative freedom, and by the nineteen twenties even newspapers 609 00:35:49,120 --> 00:35:51,440 Speaker 1: were printing them. So a little bit different than what 610 00:35:51,520 --> 00:35:55,680 Speaker 1: you hear from the skeptical art therapists today. Um. But 611 00:35:56,120 --> 00:35:59,200 Speaker 1: when you move into the subversive sixties, and this is 612 00:35:59,239 --> 00:36:01,320 Speaker 1: coming from a great article over at the New Republic, 613 00:36:02,200 --> 00:36:05,960 Speaker 1: you get some of the first adult coloring books. But 614 00:36:06,200 --> 00:36:09,879 Speaker 1: they were really kind of more specialized political cartoon rather 615 00:36:10,000 --> 00:36:14,799 Speaker 1: than mindfulness practice. Uh. They focused on fears ranging from 616 00:36:14,920 --> 00:36:18,640 Speaker 1: national security and communists, to sex and mental illness, to 617 00:36:18,719 --> 00:36:22,920 Speaker 1: even office culture. And speaking of office culture, in ninety one, 618 00:36:23,480 --> 00:36:26,520 Speaker 1: the supposedly, I guess, first adult coloring book was called 619 00:36:26,880 --> 00:36:29,840 Speaker 1: the Executive Coloring Book, and it was created by three 620 00:36:29,960 --> 00:36:34,280 Speaker 1: Chicago ad guys who used it to mock office culture 621 00:36:34,440 --> 00:36:38,920 Speaker 1: as conformists, and they walked you through these really dreary 622 00:36:39,040 --> 00:36:42,880 Speaker 1: scenarios with even drearier captions like this is my suit, 623 00:36:43,360 --> 00:36:46,319 Speaker 1: color it gray? Or I will lose my job. This 624 00:36:46,400 --> 00:36:49,200 Speaker 1: is my train. It takes me to my office every day. 625 00:36:49,280 --> 00:36:51,760 Speaker 1: You meet lots of interesting people on the train. Color 626 00:36:51,840 --> 00:36:55,160 Speaker 1: them all gray. Oh, but they do add color. Uh. 627 00:36:55,200 --> 00:36:58,280 Speaker 1: This is my pill. It is round, it is pink. 628 00:36:58,600 --> 00:37:01,719 Speaker 1: It makes me not care. When I first saw those 629 00:37:02,280 --> 00:37:05,640 Speaker 1: I was astounded that they were from the sixties because 630 00:37:05,680 --> 00:37:09,520 Speaker 1: the humor and style feels so modern. Yeah, I mean, 631 00:37:09,600 --> 00:37:14,000 Speaker 1: snark is timeless, I guess yeah. Um. In nineteen sixty two, 632 00:37:14,280 --> 00:37:17,920 Speaker 1: apparently again they were. They were a hit. Sales of 633 00:37:17,960 --> 00:37:22,360 Speaker 1: adult coloring books hit one million dollars um. The JFK 634 00:37:22,480 --> 00:37:25,799 Speaker 1: Coloring Book by Mort Drucker top the New York Times 635 00:37:25,880 --> 00:37:30,359 Speaker 1: bestseller list for fourteen weeks, along with job Nation's New 636 00:37:30,400 --> 00:37:33,560 Speaker 1: Frontier Coloring Book, which made fun of the Red Scare, 637 00:37:34,280 --> 00:37:39,200 Speaker 1: and the John Birch Society Coloring Book, which mocked conspiracy theories. 638 00:37:39,560 --> 00:37:44,040 Speaker 1: And the same year, Barber Streisand had a single called 639 00:37:44,160 --> 00:37:47,399 Speaker 1: My Coloring Book. Yeah, she's all crooning about, like, get 640 00:37:47,480 --> 00:37:51,560 Speaker 1: your crayons ready and color me. Color to me. I 641 00:37:51,560 --> 00:37:53,480 Speaker 1: don't know which one it is. I like to imagine 642 00:37:53,520 --> 00:37:55,239 Speaker 1: it's color me because then I just think of Jack 643 00:37:55,280 --> 00:37:58,120 Speaker 1: and Rose from Titanic, and and then I wish she 644 00:37:58,160 --> 00:38:01,759 Speaker 1: had said, like, color me like one of your punch girls. Well, 645 00:38:01,840 --> 00:38:05,360 Speaker 1: and I want to send those New York Times bestseller 646 00:38:05,400 --> 00:38:08,760 Speaker 1: lists from the early nineteen sixties to whoever they quoted 647 00:38:08,760 --> 00:38:11,720 Speaker 1: in that New Yorker piece to see say, see, look, 648 00:38:12,320 --> 00:38:17,120 Speaker 1: it's not it's not just us millennials, right, yeah, exactly. 649 00:38:17,200 --> 00:38:20,319 Speaker 1: And just a year later, in nineteen sixty three, uh, 650 00:38:20,360 --> 00:38:23,839 Speaker 1: the Washington Post was reporting on a doctor who proposed 651 00:38:24,320 --> 00:38:27,600 Speaker 1: using a coloring book as a diagnostic tool to classify 652 00:38:27,680 --> 00:38:32,200 Speaker 1: people with different mental illnesses. And I mean, there you 653 00:38:32,239 --> 00:38:35,880 Speaker 1: go again, having that idea of coloring book as therapy, 654 00:38:36,000 --> 00:38:39,759 Speaker 1: which Carl Young had sort of, uh pioneered. But I 655 00:38:39,840 --> 00:38:43,880 Speaker 1: think it's interesting this speaking of Carl Young. In the sixties, 656 00:38:43,960 --> 00:38:48,400 Speaker 1: these adult coloring books were exploding right as interest in 657 00:38:48,520 --> 00:38:53,160 Speaker 1: Freudian psychoanalysis and child development was coming back into vogue. 658 00:38:53,200 --> 00:38:56,920 Speaker 1: It was giving adults, perhaps as the people over the 659 00:38:56,960 --> 00:39:01,239 Speaker 1: New Republic posit, a chance to return into childhood and 660 00:39:01,280 --> 00:39:04,640 Speaker 1: reject the system. And they say that maybe these coloring 661 00:39:04,680 --> 00:39:07,680 Speaker 1: books were normalized for this particular generation, even if it 662 00:39:07,719 --> 00:39:11,759 Speaker 1: was just snark, even if it wasn't literally to color um. 663 00:39:11,800 --> 00:39:15,080 Speaker 1: Because this was the first generation to grow up with crayons, 664 00:39:15,120 --> 00:39:17,600 Speaker 1: for instance, as a common household item rather than as 665 00:39:17,640 --> 00:39:24,760 Speaker 1: a luxury. And importantly, the last generation before education experts, 666 00:39:24,760 --> 00:39:28,920 Speaker 1: specifically this guy, Victor Lowenfeld, rejected coloring books as stunting 667 00:39:29,000 --> 00:39:31,239 Speaker 1: to children's innate creativity. So we had seen him. What 668 00:39:31,320 --> 00:39:33,560 Speaker 1: Kristin said a little bit ago that around the turn 669 00:39:33,560 --> 00:39:35,919 Speaker 1: of the century, those early education experts were like, yes, 670 00:39:36,000 --> 00:39:40,200 Speaker 1: use coloring books to help spur creativity. Well, then Lowenfeld 671 00:39:40,320 --> 00:39:43,000 Speaker 1: comes around, I think he and Susan Striker would get 672 00:39:43,000 --> 00:39:46,439 Speaker 1: along great and says, the youngster is supposed to color 673 00:39:46,480 --> 00:39:50,080 Speaker 1: within the lines, and some youngsters seem to enjoy this activity. 674 00:39:50,120 --> 00:39:53,560 Speaker 1: This enjoyment maybe because these youngsters do not have to 675 00:39:53,600 --> 00:39:57,920 Speaker 1: think for themselves, ouch Lowenfeld, And so he expresses all 676 00:39:57,960 --> 00:40:03,919 Speaker 1: this concern on kids dependency upon someone else's outline. He 677 00:40:04,080 --> 00:40:07,240 Speaker 1: wants to see children not only coloring outside the lions, 678 00:40:07,320 --> 00:40:10,480 Speaker 1: but literally and figuratively, but just creating their own stuff. 679 00:40:11,160 --> 00:40:14,280 Speaker 1: And the thing is, if we jump forward to today 680 00:40:14,400 --> 00:40:17,960 Speaker 1: and with those kids all grown up and coloring, I think, 681 00:40:18,000 --> 00:40:24,240 Speaker 1: regardless of what any skeptical psychologists or Susan Strikers might say, 682 00:40:24,760 --> 00:40:27,120 Speaker 1: we're going to keep coloring. I mean, and this might 683 00:40:27,160 --> 00:40:29,480 Speaker 1: be a flash in the pan kind of trend, but 684 00:40:30,440 --> 00:40:32,799 Speaker 1: people seem to be deriving so much enjoyment out of it, 685 00:40:32,920 --> 00:40:37,640 Speaker 1: and it's so social media ready that, I mean, it 686 00:40:37,680 --> 00:40:41,480 Speaker 1: makes so much sense why we're seeing a resurgence. But 687 00:40:42,239 --> 00:40:46,000 Speaker 1: we were wondering with all of this, is this resurgence 688 00:40:46,280 --> 00:40:49,600 Speaker 1: gendered at all? And there hasn't been We we couldn't 689 00:40:49,600 --> 00:40:54,800 Speaker 1: find any studies on the gender breakdown of adult colorers, 690 00:40:55,040 --> 00:40:57,600 Speaker 1: but anecdotally, like you said, it does seem to be 691 00:40:57,920 --> 00:41:02,600 Speaker 1: more older women who are both interviewed about their coloring 692 00:41:02,600 --> 00:41:06,239 Speaker 1: habits and also commenting on these articles. Yeah, yeah, and 693 00:41:06,280 --> 00:41:08,640 Speaker 1: when men, when men do chime in, they're also a 694 00:41:08,680 --> 00:41:12,120 Speaker 1: little bit older. And we also wondered about the people 695 00:41:12,160 --> 00:41:15,719 Speaker 1: who are designing and creating these books, but again it's 696 00:41:15,719 --> 00:41:19,360 Speaker 1: just kind of anecdotal evidence. It seems to be largely 697 00:41:19,520 --> 00:41:24,120 Speaker 1: women artists and art therapists creating these books. And really 698 00:41:24,160 --> 00:41:27,840 Speaker 1: the only guy authors and creators we've even mentioned or 699 00:41:27,880 --> 00:41:30,560 Speaker 1: we came across were the ones from the nineteen sixties 700 00:41:30,680 --> 00:41:33,960 Speaker 1: who were creating those snarky, subversive books, And so I 701 00:41:34,040 --> 00:41:37,600 Speaker 1: I wonder about that division. So you've got dudes from 702 00:41:37,640 --> 00:41:44,239 Speaker 1: the ad world creating snarky, subversive commentary as coloring books. Uh, 703 00:41:44,280 --> 00:41:46,719 Speaker 1: And then today's landscape seems to be a lot of 704 00:41:46,760 --> 00:41:51,719 Speaker 1: women creating very in earnest, very like beautiful artistic, you know, 705 00:41:51,840 --> 00:41:55,560 Speaker 1: forest themed creations for people to color. But then you 706 00:41:55,680 --> 00:41:58,160 Speaker 1: also have a lot of women who are making and 707 00:41:58,239 --> 00:42:02,080 Speaker 1: also sharing the snarky, sob burst of coloring books more 708 00:42:02,080 --> 00:42:05,040 Speaker 1: along the lines of like the Hillary Clinton coloring book 709 00:42:05,160 --> 00:42:09,080 Speaker 1: or the unicorns or jerks. So, I mean, it's it 710 00:42:09,120 --> 00:42:13,359 Speaker 1: seems like that's still alive and well. And from what 711 00:42:13,400 --> 00:42:16,600 Speaker 1: I've noticed on social media in terms of what ladies 712 00:42:16,600 --> 00:42:19,200 Speaker 1: seem to love sharing with each other, are more of 713 00:42:19,239 --> 00:42:23,440 Speaker 1: those coloring books that allows us to express frustrations of 714 00:42:23,680 --> 00:42:27,240 Speaker 1: gender discrimination or body shaming or issues like that, or 715 00:42:27,520 --> 00:42:31,719 Speaker 1: celebrate people like Ruth Bader Ginsburg or Hillary Clinton. Yeah, 716 00:42:31,719 --> 00:42:34,280 Speaker 1: which again is like, of course, it's total social media 717 00:42:34,320 --> 00:42:37,520 Speaker 1: heaven all of those memes. Coloring books kind of just 718 00:42:37,520 --> 00:42:41,440 Speaker 1: fit right into that. But we did find a study 719 00:42:41,480 --> 00:42:45,480 Speaker 1: that looked at the coloring books themselves, and this was 720 00:42:45,560 --> 00:42:49,680 Speaker 1: coming from the journal Sex Roles In researchers looked at 721 00:42:49,719 --> 00:42:52,200 Speaker 1: eight dred and eighty nine characters. Why they didn't take 722 00:42:52,239 --> 00:42:56,520 Speaker 1: it to eight nine. Uh in fifties six coloring books, 723 00:42:57,000 --> 00:42:59,560 Speaker 1: and they found that gender stereotypes are pretty common, and 724 00:42:59,600 --> 00:43:04,000 Speaker 1: these were specifically coloring books for kids. Yeah, so the 725 00:43:04,040 --> 00:43:08,799 Speaker 1: gender stereotyping manifested in male characters being more active, being 726 00:43:08,880 --> 00:43:13,400 Speaker 1: likelier to carry out gender neutral activities, and also mostly 727 00:43:13,440 --> 00:43:17,480 Speaker 1: depicted as animals, adults, and superheroes. But what did the 728 00:43:17,560 --> 00:43:20,839 Speaker 1: ladies do? They were more likely to be depicted as 729 00:43:20,960 --> 00:43:24,000 Speaker 1: children or some animals, but probably animals with long eyelashes, 730 00:43:24,000 --> 00:43:26,520 Speaker 1: so that we know that they're girls, right, exactly? How 731 00:43:26,520 --> 00:43:29,319 Speaker 1: else do you know? No? I don't think there is 732 00:43:29,440 --> 00:43:35,120 Speaker 1: biologically any other way to tell. I'm pretty sure you're right. Yeah, 733 00:43:35,160 --> 00:43:37,680 Speaker 1: So I wonder, like, does it doesn't matter if coloring 734 00:43:37,719 --> 00:43:41,239 Speaker 1: book characters are gender stereotypical? I mean, I guess you 735 00:43:41,239 --> 00:43:45,000 Speaker 1: could argue that it does if it's kids that during 736 00:43:45,040 --> 00:43:49,800 Speaker 1: those ages when their gender schemas are forming. Absolutely, because 737 00:43:49,840 --> 00:43:54,320 Speaker 1: of all the time spent hunched over those images imagining 738 00:43:54,360 --> 00:43:59,080 Speaker 1: themselves little little squirrels with long eyelashes. Yeah, you you 739 00:43:59,120 --> 00:44:02,840 Speaker 1: put eyelashes on Superman, do it, which makes him a lady. 740 00:44:03,480 --> 00:44:06,280 Speaker 1: But listeners were really curious to hear from you whether 741 00:44:06,920 --> 00:44:10,160 Speaker 1: you've popped on the adult coloring train because I mean, 742 00:44:10,320 --> 00:44:13,520 Speaker 1: it does seem to be a really common form of 743 00:44:13,560 --> 00:44:16,960 Speaker 1: self care now for people who deal with anxiety and 744 00:44:17,000 --> 00:44:20,200 Speaker 1: other kinds of kind of just daily mental health issues. 745 00:44:20,320 --> 00:44:22,759 Speaker 1: It's a nice way to press the pause button. It's 746 00:44:22,760 --> 00:44:26,279 Speaker 1: a nice way to I mean, for better or worse, 747 00:44:26,360 --> 00:44:29,280 Speaker 1: it is a nice way to empty out your mind sometimes. 748 00:44:29,280 --> 00:44:31,799 Speaker 1: Although like, who's to say that you're not mulling over 749 00:44:31,880 --> 00:44:36,719 Speaker 1: your freaking problems as you color. Come on, I want 750 00:44:36,800 --> 00:44:41,879 Speaker 1: to give people more credit than Susan Striker and psychologists are. Yeah, 751 00:44:41,960 --> 00:44:45,960 Speaker 1: quite possibly. We can multitask even while coloring. Oh my god, incredible. 752 00:44:46,040 --> 00:44:47,719 Speaker 1: I can plan what I'm going to buy at the 753 00:44:47,719 --> 00:44:52,640 Speaker 1: grocery store. Well listeners, Mom Stubb at house stuffworks dot 754 00:44:52,680 --> 00:44:54,839 Speaker 1: com is where you can write to us and send 755 00:44:54,920 --> 00:44:57,760 Speaker 1: us photos of your coloring if you would like to. 756 00:44:58,320 --> 00:45:01,160 Speaker 1: Or you can also tweet us at stuff Podcasts or 757 00:45:01,239 --> 00:45:04,760 Speaker 1: tag us on Instagram if you've got any special drawings 758 00:45:04,840 --> 00:45:07,560 Speaker 1: or colorings you want to share with us, and we've 759 00:45:07,600 --> 00:45:09,960 Speaker 1: got some messages to share with you. We come right 760 00:45:09,960 --> 00:45:14,400 Speaker 1: back from a quick break, So Kristen. Using the amazing 761 00:45:14,520 --> 00:45:18,240 Speaker 1: Legacy box service, my parents have been able to ship 762 00:45:18,239 --> 00:45:22,680 Speaker 1: off my mother's old family movies, all of these reels 763 00:45:22,719 --> 00:45:27,040 Speaker 1: that I'm hoping fingers crossed show really embarrassing images of 764 00:45:27,080 --> 00:45:29,319 Speaker 1: my mother as a small child. Well, and then what's 765 00:45:29,320 --> 00:45:32,520 Speaker 1: going to happen to those reels that they have sent 766 00:45:32,600 --> 00:45:37,000 Speaker 1: off to Legacy Box, which is located in Chatanooga, Tennessee, 767 00:45:37,320 --> 00:45:42,720 Speaker 1: is that they will then be digitally transformed into digital 768 00:45:42,760 --> 00:45:46,640 Speaker 1: files that your mom can watch and post on Facebook 769 00:45:47,360 --> 00:45:49,520 Speaker 1: over and over again to share with all of us. 770 00:45:50,000 --> 00:45:54,040 Speaker 1: And whether you have old film reels, VHS tapes, cassette tapes, 771 00:45:54,200 --> 00:45:58,440 Speaker 1: whatever the format of your outdated memories, you can get 772 00:45:58,520 --> 00:46:03,399 Speaker 1: them digitally pressed nerved with Legacy Box. Yeah, Legacy Box 773 00:46:03,440 --> 00:46:05,440 Speaker 1: makes it really easy. 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That's legacy box dot com, 784 00:46:42,680 --> 00:46:46,200 Speaker 1: slash mom stuff, use code mom stuff, and now back 785 00:46:46,239 --> 00:46:53,640 Speaker 1: to the show. Okay, so we have a couple more 786 00:46:53,719 --> 00:46:57,080 Speaker 1: letters from our interview with boss up founder Emily Aries. 787 00:46:57,200 --> 00:46:59,120 Speaker 1: She really struck a nerve with people, and I'm glad 788 00:46:59,160 --> 00:47:01,920 Speaker 1: you guys enjoyed the talk. Um. This one is from Bo. 789 00:47:02,200 --> 00:47:07,719 Speaker 1: Bo says that the podcast was so recognizable. Life itself is, 790 00:47:07,880 --> 00:47:10,239 Speaker 1: even apart from my working life, quite a challenge, even 791 00:47:10,280 --> 00:47:13,600 Speaker 1: without doing much. This is because I'm chronically depressed. Of course, 792 00:47:13,600 --> 00:47:15,520 Speaker 1: I'm not walking around like a train wreck all day, 793 00:47:15,560 --> 00:47:17,520 Speaker 1: but it's always sort of on your mind. It's quite 794 00:47:17,560 --> 00:47:19,880 Speaker 1: hard to summarize my depression in a few sentences, but 795 00:47:19,920 --> 00:47:22,480 Speaker 1: I'll try. From the age of six, I realized that 796 00:47:22,480 --> 00:47:24,680 Speaker 1: I really didn't want to live. Yes, from the tender 797 00:47:24,719 --> 00:47:28,320 Speaker 1: age of six, I was overthinking my own mortality, getting 798 00:47:28,320 --> 00:47:30,480 Speaker 1: older and becoming more aware that not wanting to live 799 00:47:30,600 --> 00:47:33,000 Speaker 1: isn't exactly standard. I figured I should just sit it 800 00:47:33,040 --> 00:47:34,799 Speaker 1: out as long as there are people who care about me. 801 00:47:35,120 --> 00:47:37,360 Speaker 1: There are a few ways to cope with life. After 802 00:47:37,440 --> 00:47:39,759 Speaker 1: accepting this, you could just make the most of it 803 00:47:39,800 --> 00:47:41,920 Speaker 1: and do fun stuff to make it all actually bearable. 804 00:47:41,960 --> 00:47:44,760 Speaker 1: For example, But instead of the fun route, I created 805 00:47:44,800 --> 00:47:47,319 Speaker 1: a route that isn't making it easy on myself. I 806 00:47:47,400 --> 00:47:50,840 Speaker 1: chose to neglect myself and focus on other people. Making 807 00:47:50,880 --> 00:47:53,840 Speaker 1: myself happy feelt unattainable, but I was very able to 808 00:47:53,920 --> 00:47:57,200 Speaker 1: make others happy, and their happiness gives me short burst 809 00:47:57,239 --> 00:47:59,680 Speaker 1: of at least feeling a bit useful. But in the 810 00:47:59,760 --> 00:48:02,560 Speaker 1: law round, this isn't a sustainable route, all the more 811 00:48:02,640 --> 00:48:06,280 Speaker 1: because I didn't acknowledge that I was depressed. This focusing 812 00:48:06,280 --> 00:48:08,919 Speaker 1: on others and feeling excessively responsible for them is something 813 00:48:08,920 --> 00:48:11,160 Speaker 1: I'm used to doing in my working life too. I 814 00:48:11,200 --> 00:48:13,719 Speaker 1: feel like I should do my very best all the time, 815 00:48:13,760 --> 00:48:16,120 Speaker 1: even if it costs my own health and happiness. This 816 00:48:16,239 --> 00:48:19,040 Speaker 1: caused my first massive collapse at the age of twenty three. 817 00:48:19,320 --> 00:48:21,440 Speaker 1: I managed to get to work, but there I suddenly 818 00:48:21,480 --> 00:48:25,120 Speaker 1: felt paralyzed and drained from any emotions and energy. From there, 819 00:48:25,160 --> 00:48:28,560 Speaker 1: I started the trajectory of managing the depression, which continues today. 820 00:48:28,960 --> 00:48:32,439 Speaker 1: I am twenty nine. Now I need regular therapy sessions, antidepressants, 821 00:48:32,440 --> 00:48:34,719 Speaker 1: and regular trips to a physical therapist to loosen up 822 00:48:34,719 --> 00:48:37,760 Speaker 1: my back. A mental stiffening tends to stiffen your physique 823 00:48:37,800 --> 00:48:40,719 Speaker 1: to to help me through my daily life. The way 824 00:48:40,719 --> 00:48:43,680 Speaker 1: I approach life is the problem, the problems you talked 825 00:48:43,680 --> 00:48:46,160 Speaker 1: about on the podcast or things I continually face. Two, 826 00:48:46,440 --> 00:48:49,120 Speaker 1: I feel totally stuck in this cycle of feeling responsible 827 00:48:49,120 --> 00:48:52,400 Speaker 1: in a disproportionate way, working extremely hard to manage the 828 00:48:52,480 --> 00:48:55,960 Speaker 1: unrealistic workload, and people expecting me to work this hard. 829 00:48:56,000 --> 00:48:58,439 Speaker 1: To wait your wish is my command type of level. 830 00:48:58,440 --> 00:49:00,879 Speaker 1: Because I don't say no enough. It can be so 831 00:49:00,960 --> 00:49:03,480 Speaker 1: hard to explain that sometimes it just is too much 832 00:49:03,480 --> 00:49:06,279 Speaker 1: when the usual reaction is yeah, I totally understand, and 833 00:49:06,280 --> 00:49:08,920 Speaker 1: I certainly don't mean to pressure you, but um, and 834 00:49:08,960 --> 00:49:11,680 Speaker 1: then they overcharge me anyway. So Bo goes on to 835 00:49:11,680 --> 00:49:13,640 Speaker 1: say that she really had to get back to life 836 00:49:13,640 --> 00:49:16,120 Speaker 1: in a step by step, day by day way, getting 837 00:49:16,120 --> 00:49:19,160 Speaker 1: outside of my house and among people, which I did 838 00:49:19,200 --> 00:49:21,200 Speaker 1: with tears in my eyes and afraid anyone would ask 839 00:49:21,200 --> 00:49:23,920 Speaker 1: me something, et cetera. You can imagine, I'm really eager 840 00:49:23,960 --> 00:49:26,400 Speaker 1: to break this cycle before it gets worse. So hearing 841 00:49:26,400 --> 00:49:29,279 Speaker 1: your podcast was so nice knowing you're not the only 842 00:49:29,320 --> 00:49:32,319 Speaker 1: one struggling. You know that obviously, but someone sharing their 843 00:49:32,360 --> 00:49:34,799 Speaker 1: experience is so nice, and knowing there are women like 844 00:49:34,800 --> 00:49:37,200 Speaker 1: Emily aries who are working to change things for women 845 00:49:37,239 --> 00:49:39,759 Speaker 1: like me is super comforting. I will certainly check out 846 00:49:39,800 --> 00:49:43,239 Speaker 1: the boss step site as it sounded very inspiring. So Bo, 847 00:49:43,600 --> 00:49:45,800 Speaker 1: I'm sorry about your struggles, but I'm so glad we 848 00:49:45,840 --> 00:49:48,719 Speaker 1: could help in any little way. Well, I've got a 849 00:49:48,800 --> 00:49:52,319 Speaker 1: letter here from Morgan, who we had the pleasure of 850 00:49:52,400 --> 00:49:55,520 Speaker 1: meeting at our meetup in Nashville not too long ago, 851 00:49:56,120 --> 00:49:58,920 Speaker 1: and Morgan wrote, first, I want to say how much 852 00:49:58,960 --> 00:50:00,520 Speaker 1: I love this show in a pre shit, how much 853 00:50:00,560 --> 00:50:03,040 Speaker 1: passion you to put into everything. It really helps me 854 00:50:03,080 --> 00:50:05,759 Speaker 1: through my busy days. And speaking of busy days, I 855 00:50:05,760 --> 00:50:07,640 Speaker 1: know all too well the woes and struggles of time 856 00:50:07,680 --> 00:50:10,040 Speaker 1: management and the feeling of burnout. I'm a twenty five 857 00:50:10,120 --> 00:50:13,200 Speaker 1: year old mother of two girls under five, a fundraising 858 00:50:13,239 --> 00:50:16,319 Speaker 1: coordinator and secretary on the board for a nonprofit. My 859 00:50:16,400 --> 00:50:19,160 Speaker 1: husband and I, along with a few friends, started the 860 00:50:19,200 --> 00:50:23,520 Speaker 1: photographer and Facebook administrator for said nonprofit and a local 861 00:50:23,560 --> 00:50:26,520 Speaker 1: car show, and that's just what I volunteer for. I 862 00:50:26,600 --> 00:50:29,160 Speaker 1: recently started working for the family business and making an 863 00:50:29,160 --> 00:50:32,800 Speaker 1: income as a marketing and catering manager, and that's a mouthful. 864 00:50:32,960 --> 00:50:36,520 Speaker 1: I know juggling is my act in this side show life, 865 00:50:36,800 --> 00:50:39,440 Speaker 1: and let me tell you, stressful doesn't even begin to 866 00:50:39,480 --> 00:50:42,200 Speaker 1: describe it. I've dealt with depression for a long time, 867 00:50:42,239 --> 00:50:44,319 Speaker 1: but I've never really gotten to help I deserve. But 868 00:50:44,360 --> 00:50:47,120 Speaker 1: when I heard Emily Aris discussed burnout and how draining 869 00:50:47,160 --> 00:50:49,960 Speaker 1: it can be, I felt relieved to know someone has 870 00:50:49,960 --> 00:50:53,239 Speaker 1: stood where I stand. This really resonates with me. Lately. 871 00:50:53,280 --> 00:50:55,960 Speaker 1: I really do feel as if I'm working myself to death. 872 00:50:56,280 --> 00:50:58,160 Speaker 1: But thanks to this podcast, I realized I need to 873 00:50:58,200 --> 00:51:02,160 Speaker 1: step back to reorganize and prior urtize my values and efforts. 874 00:51:02,400 --> 00:51:04,520 Speaker 1: I've done a few things recently for myself and my 875 00:51:04,600 --> 00:51:07,880 Speaker 1: happiness in the future, I strive to continue to get 876 00:51:07,920 --> 00:51:11,160 Speaker 1: bossed up. Well. Thanks so much, Morgan, and I'm so 877 00:51:11,280 --> 00:51:14,000 Speaker 1: happy to hear that. And folks, we want to hear 878 00:51:14,080 --> 00:51:16,200 Speaker 1: from you now. Mom. Stuff at how stuff Works dot 879 00:51:16,239 --> 00:51:18,680 Speaker 1: Com is our email address and for links all of 880 00:51:18,719 --> 00:51:20,720 Speaker 1: our social media as well as all of our blogs, 881 00:51:20,800 --> 00:51:23,959 Speaker 1: videos and podcasts with our sources so you can learn 882 00:51:24,040 --> 00:51:27,239 Speaker 1: more about coloring books. Head on over to stuff Mom 883 00:51:27,280 --> 00:51:33,719 Speaker 1: Never Told You dot com for more on this and 884 00:51:33,760 --> 00:51:44,320 Speaker 1: thousands of other topics. Is it how stuff works dot com,