1 00:00:00,320 --> 00:00:02,559 Speaker 1: Asa Hutchinson is back with us, of course, the former 2 00:00:02,560 --> 00:00:06,440 Speaker 1: governor of Arkansas and Republican presidential candidate. Just what almost 3 00:00:06,440 --> 00:00:08,520 Speaker 1: exactly a week I guess it is off the debate 4 00:00:08,560 --> 00:00:11,039 Speaker 1: stage in Milwaukee. Thank you for coming back in. It's 5 00:00:11,080 --> 00:00:11,720 Speaker 1: good to see you, sir. 6 00:00:11,760 --> 00:00:14,120 Speaker 2: Well, it's good to be here, and you're right, what 7 00:00:14,200 --> 00:00:17,400 Speaker 2: an incredible experience in Milwaukee on the debate stage. I've 8 00:00:17,440 --> 00:00:22,280 Speaker 2: got very pleased with how we got there, but also 9 00:00:22,480 --> 00:00:25,159 Speaker 2: the message that we had. I think we showcased that 10 00:00:25,200 --> 00:00:26,720 Speaker 2: I'm ready to be president of the United States. 11 00:00:26,800 --> 00:00:28,240 Speaker 1: I want to ask you more about that, but I'd 12 00:00:28,240 --> 00:00:30,840 Speaker 1: love your input on the conversation. We were just having 13 00:00:30,880 --> 00:00:32,839 Speaker 1: you know what it's like to run a state, and 14 00:00:32,920 --> 00:00:35,199 Speaker 1: to run a state that's dealing with a natural disaster. 15 00:00:35,240 --> 00:00:38,560 Speaker 1: We remember the flooding in Arkansas in twenty nineteen, for instance. 16 00:00:38,600 --> 00:00:43,479 Speaker 1: I realize that's probably still pretty near in your thoughts, 17 00:00:43,560 --> 00:00:45,920 Speaker 1: in your memory. We're watching Ronda Santis, one of your 18 00:00:46,000 --> 00:00:49,040 Speaker 1: rivals on the campaign trail, deal with this now in Florida, 19 00:00:49,040 --> 00:00:51,360 Speaker 1: and apparently it's going to become Brian Kemp's problem now 20 00:00:51,760 --> 00:00:54,920 Speaker 1: rolling into Georgia. The job of a governor in a 21 00:00:55,000 --> 00:01:00,720 Speaker 1: time like this. This really defines urgency in that position, 22 00:01:00,760 --> 00:01:01,200 Speaker 1: doesn't it. 23 00:01:01,520 --> 00:01:05,120 Speaker 2: Well, it does, and there's nothing more important than first 24 00:01:05,160 --> 00:01:07,760 Speaker 2: of all, a governor has to be there during times 25 00:01:07,760 --> 00:01:13,160 Speaker 2: of crisis. Secondly, you have to communicate effectively. People are 26 00:01:13,200 --> 00:01:16,840 Speaker 2: looking to you for leadership, for guidance, they trust you. 27 00:01:17,520 --> 00:01:20,520 Speaker 2: And then thirdly, it's a response capability, which is really 28 00:01:20,600 --> 00:01:23,960 Speaker 2: managing and how you've been prepared for that all along. 29 00:01:24,560 --> 00:01:28,319 Speaker 2: And so this is what governors do. I had to 30 00:01:28,360 --> 00:01:31,319 Speaker 2: do it as governor during a five hundred year record flood. 31 00:01:32,040 --> 00:01:34,520 Speaker 2: Governor DeSantis is going through it. Of course, they have 32 00:01:34,680 --> 00:01:38,600 Speaker 2: the hurricanes down there on an annual base. 33 00:01:38,640 --> 00:01:41,600 Speaker 1: That's so they're very ready for this, very prepared. It's 34 00:01:41,600 --> 00:01:43,840 Speaker 1: an opportunity though I supposed to show leadership. Did he 35 00:01:43,880 --> 00:01:45,800 Speaker 1: do the right thing by coming off the campaign trail? Oh? 36 00:01:45,840 --> 00:01:48,520 Speaker 2: Of course he did. Absolutely. There was any question about that. 37 00:01:49,040 --> 00:01:53,360 Speaker 2: You have to be there. And again you contrast that, 38 00:01:53,400 --> 00:01:56,920 Speaker 2: if I might, with President Biden, who's delayed in going 39 00:01:57,000 --> 00:02:00,760 Speaker 2: to HAAYI I mean the being there taking the natural 40 00:02:00,800 --> 00:02:05,880 Speaker 2: disasters very seriously. This is when people are hurting. And 41 00:02:05,920 --> 00:02:08,320 Speaker 2: he did the right thing by going back to Florida. 42 00:02:08,880 --> 00:02:11,000 Speaker 1: You thought that Joe Biden should have gone earlier to Hawaii. 43 00:02:11,400 --> 00:02:13,359 Speaker 1: How would you have handled that if you had been president. 44 00:02:14,080 --> 00:02:18,280 Speaker 2: Well, first of all, your comments to the nation immediately 45 00:02:18,320 --> 00:02:24,520 Speaker 2: afterwards would be very important, sympathetic and showing that you're 46 00:02:24,560 --> 00:02:28,360 Speaker 2: on top of it and not a more casual no 47 00:02:28,480 --> 00:02:31,679 Speaker 2: comment type. And then secondly, you've got to be there 48 00:02:31,760 --> 00:02:34,800 Speaker 2: very quickly, you know. And I don't want to be 49 00:02:34,880 --> 00:02:38,400 Speaker 2: overly critical, but it just illustrates that whether you're the 50 00:02:38,480 --> 00:02:41,200 Speaker 2: president or whether you're a governor, during times of crisis, 51 00:02:42,000 --> 00:02:45,639 Speaker 2: you have to be there. You have to help comfort 52 00:02:46,400 --> 00:02:47,480 Speaker 2: and guide the recovery. 53 00:02:47,600 --> 00:02:50,800 Speaker 1: There's something about governors and mayors for that matter. As 54 00:02:50,800 --> 00:02:54,320 Speaker 1: somebody who covers politics, governors and mayors have just a 55 00:02:54,360 --> 00:02:57,560 Speaker 1: different reality than, for instance, members of Congress, the House, 56 00:02:57,680 --> 00:03:00,840 Speaker 1: or the Senate, because you have to deal with reality 57 00:03:00,960 --> 00:03:04,760 Speaker 1: and you have to deal with everyone. Do you wish 58 00:03:04,800 --> 00:03:07,000 Speaker 1: you had more of an opportunity to tell that story? 59 00:03:07,040 --> 00:03:08,959 Speaker 1: You're not the only governor on the stage here that 60 00:03:09,680 --> 00:03:12,240 Speaker 1: makes you different from those who have never been an executive. 61 00:03:13,000 --> 00:03:17,720 Speaker 2: Oh. Absolutely. I think governors are in are set apart. 62 00:03:17,800 --> 00:03:21,880 Speaker 2: They know how to lead, they're held accountable, and I 63 00:03:21,880 --> 00:03:24,239 Speaker 2: would like to have told more of what we've done 64 00:03:24,280 --> 00:03:28,720 Speaker 2: in Arkansas, particularly in contrast to Governor DeSantis, who talked 65 00:03:28,760 --> 00:03:32,040 Speaker 2: about how they managed the pandemic. I was waiting for 66 00:03:32,120 --> 00:03:35,080 Speaker 2: the opportunity to talk about how we did it in Arkansas. 67 00:03:35,680 --> 00:03:38,040 Speaker 2: And I think there will be another occasion at the 68 00:03:38,280 --> 00:03:42,360 Speaker 2: Reagan Library because I think those questions will come up again. 69 00:03:42,520 --> 00:03:46,280 Speaker 2: But you know, my record of cutting taxes, creating a surplus, 70 00:03:46,400 --> 00:03:52,240 Speaker 2: creating jobs in Arkansas, and balancing a budget, they're very 71 00:03:52,320 --> 00:03:55,320 Speaker 2: relevant to be President of the United States. The way 72 00:03:55,360 --> 00:03:58,480 Speaker 2: I guided through the pandemic and making sure our businesses 73 00:03:58,520 --> 00:04:02,160 Speaker 2: had an opportunity to survive. I've not sheltering in place 74 00:04:03,160 --> 00:04:05,360 Speaker 2: as many of the other states did, and keeping our 75 00:04:05,400 --> 00:04:09,920 Speaker 2: schools open after those first couple months for in classroom instructions. 76 00:04:10,520 --> 00:04:14,440 Speaker 2: These are things that set my leadership apart. I look 77 00:04:14,480 --> 00:04:16,120 Speaker 2: forward to the opportunity to talk about those more. 78 00:04:16,279 --> 00:04:18,280 Speaker 1: Do you expect to be on the debate stage at 79 00:04:18,279 --> 00:04:19,240 Speaker 1: the ore Library? Oh? 80 00:04:19,279 --> 00:04:23,840 Speaker 2: Absolutely. You know. I've surprised everybody every step of the way. 81 00:04:23,880 --> 00:04:26,080 Speaker 2: Nobody thought I'd be on the first debate stage, and 82 00:04:26,120 --> 00:04:29,320 Speaker 2: we made it thanks to a lot of support from 83 00:04:29,760 --> 00:04:32,400 Speaker 2: voters out there that wanted to make sure I was there. 84 00:04:32,760 --> 00:04:34,440 Speaker 2: And now a lot of people don't think I'll be 85 00:04:34,480 --> 00:04:36,919 Speaker 2: on the second debate stage. I will be there. I 86 00:04:36,960 --> 00:04:40,200 Speaker 2: will be there because we have a growing level of support. 87 00:04:40,640 --> 00:04:42,520 Speaker 2: My message continues to be important. 88 00:04:42,680 --> 00:04:44,560 Speaker 1: What's interesting when we talk about the message what you 89 00:04:44,600 --> 00:04:47,720 Speaker 1: just said about being governor, there are questions about whether 90 00:04:47,760 --> 00:04:51,320 Speaker 1: that's resonating with Republicans today in a way that it 91 00:04:51,400 --> 00:04:54,120 Speaker 1: might have ten or twenty years ago. That it's about 92 00:04:54,120 --> 00:04:57,640 Speaker 1: red meat, it's about conspiracies, it's about Trump. You saw 93 00:04:57,720 --> 00:05:01,159 Speaker 1: Vivik Ramaswami come flying off the stage because of some 94 00:05:01,200 --> 00:05:03,480 Speaker 1: of the more outlandish things he said. This is someone 95 00:05:03,520 --> 00:05:08,000 Speaker 1: with no electoral experience. Do you worry that you're talking 96 00:05:08,040 --> 00:05:10,080 Speaker 1: to a different crowd now than you were earlier in 97 00:05:10,120 --> 00:05:10,560 Speaker 1: your career. 98 00:05:11,839 --> 00:05:15,800 Speaker 2: Well, if you want pure entertainment, there's others besides me 99 00:05:15,960 --> 00:05:20,159 Speaker 2: to the support. And you know, I suppose it started 100 00:05:20,200 --> 00:05:24,560 Speaker 2: to a certain extent with Donald Trump that came out 101 00:05:24,600 --> 00:05:28,200 Speaker 2: of the entertainment world straight into the presidency the United States. 102 00:05:28,240 --> 00:05:31,240 Speaker 2: And now the impression is that anybody can do that. 103 00:05:32,240 --> 00:05:34,600 Speaker 2: And you know, you even think about Ronald Reagan. He was 104 00:05:34,640 --> 00:05:38,640 Speaker 2: an actor, but he was also a governor first and 105 00:05:38,680 --> 00:05:43,039 Speaker 2: then he became president. George W. Bush, you know, was 106 00:05:43,120 --> 00:05:48,400 Speaker 2: governor then became president, and so I think they still 107 00:05:48,440 --> 00:05:50,680 Speaker 2: have a high regard for governors. I think that does 108 00:05:50,720 --> 00:05:53,400 Speaker 2: make a difference, but it's more than that. It's more 109 00:05:53,440 --> 00:05:55,360 Speaker 2: than being a governor. They want to see somebody that 110 00:05:55,400 --> 00:06:00,640 Speaker 2: will fight in Washington, somebody that will be aggressive in 111 00:06:01,080 --> 00:06:06,440 Speaker 2: making sure that we tackle the administrative state, reduce regulatory burdens. 112 00:06:06,839 --> 00:06:09,960 Speaker 2: And so that's on me to make sure I showcased 113 00:06:10,000 --> 00:06:11,800 Speaker 2: my record, but also what I will do. 114 00:06:11,880 --> 00:06:14,800 Speaker 1: There's another governor on that stage who is known for 115 00:06:14,839 --> 00:06:17,120 Speaker 1: going out for Donald Trump, and that's Chris Christi. Is 116 00:06:17,160 --> 00:06:20,359 Speaker 1: there room for both of you? Well? 117 00:06:21,560 --> 00:06:24,520 Speaker 2: I think so. Whenever you look at eight candidates on 118 00:06:24,560 --> 00:06:27,719 Speaker 2: that stage and only two of us had a non 119 00:06:27,800 --> 00:06:31,279 Speaker 2: Trump message, Yes, I probably was even more clear when 120 00:06:31,320 --> 00:06:36,800 Speaker 2: I said I would not support somebody who was convicted 121 00:06:36,920 --> 00:06:37,640 Speaker 2: of a fellow. 122 00:06:37,640 --> 00:06:40,040 Speaker 1: At one point, you were the only candidate to not 123 00:06:40,200 --> 00:06:42,640 Speaker 1: raise a hand. Chris Christy had a little confusion there. 124 00:06:42,640 --> 00:06:44,719 Speaker 1: I think we know what he meant. But what does 125 00:06:44,760 --> 00:06:46,960 Speaker 1: that tell us about that stage when only two of 126 00:06:46,960 --> 00:06:47,880 Speaker 1: you would respond that. 127 00:06:47,839 --> 00:06:51,120 Speaker 2: Way, Well, it tells you there's a fear factor as 128 00:06:51,160 --> 00:06:54,240 Speaker 2: to offending Donald Trump, and if you're running against him, 129 00:06:54,240 --> 00:06:57,400 Speaker 2: don't worry about it, get over it. That's what we're doing, 130 00:06:57,480 --> 00:07:01,320 Speaker 2: is not why you're running it exactly. So I'm surprised 131 00:07:01,320 --> 00:07:05,000 Speaker 2: by that. But you know, in reference to Chris Christy, 132 00:07:05,560 --> 00:07:07,880 Speaker 2: you know, in some ways we're in the same lane. 133 00:07:08,000 --> 00:07:10,960 Speaker 2: We all bring something different and we bring it in 134 00:07:11,080 --> 00:07:13,760 Speaker 2: different ways. So it's what kind of leader do you 135 00:07:13,840 --> 00:07:17,720 Speaker 2: want for our country? And I'll present my case, we'll 136 00:07:17,720 --> 00:07:19,320 Speaker 2: see what the voter is, how they respond to. 137 00:07:19,480 --> 00:07:22,320 Speaker 1: We're spending time with former Governor Asa Hutchinson, of course, 138 00:07:22,320 --> 00:07:24,720 Speaker 1: Republican presidential candidate. I'd like to ask you about the 139 00:07:24,720 --> 00:07:27,120 Speaker 1: fourteenth Amendment because you've been talking about this, and I'm 140 00:07:27,160 --> 00:07:31,040 Speaker 1: compelled by this idea that the president, in your former president, 141 00:07:31,120 --> 00:07:34,160 Speaker 1: in your eyes, may be unfit for office because of 142 00:07:34,320 --> 00:07:37,520 Speaker 1: the legal challenges that he's facing now four times indicted. 143 00:07:38,360 --> 00:07:42,760 Speaker 1: If it comes to it, will you sue invoking the 144 00:07:42,800 --> 00:07:44,720 Speaker 1: fourteenth Amendment to get him out of this race? 145 00:07:45,320 --> 00:07:47,920 Speaker 2: No, I don't expect that to happen. There will be 146 00:07:48,000 --> 00:07:50,560 Speaker 2: plenty of others that will raise that issue, so I 147 00:07:50,600 --> 00:07:53,600 Speaker 2: don't need to, and I would not want to. But 148 00:07:53,920 --> 00:07:57,520 Speaker 2: let me describe it this way. It's a constitutional requirement 149 00:07:57,560 --> 00:08:00,640 Speaker 2: for eligibility for example, right now now, you have to 150 00:08:00,640 --> 00:08:02,920 Speaker 2: be thirty five to run for president of United States. 151 00:08:03,160 --> 00:08:06,760 Speaker 2: A secretary of State will not put somebody on the 152 00:08:06,800 --> 00:08:10,280 Speaker 2: ballot who's thirty four or thirty three. They make that determination, 153 00:08:10,920 --> 00:08:13,760 Speaker 2: this is a constitutional requirement. They have to review as 154 00:08:13,800 --> 00:08:17,480 Speaker 2: well and make a determination whether they violate the fourteenth Amendment. 155 00:08:18,080 --> 00:08:20,440 Speaker 2: I suspect that there will be one or more secretary 156 00:08:20,600 --> 00:08:23,560 Speaker 2: of States that will make a determination that he is 157 00:08:23,560 --> 00:08:27,800 Speaker 2: ineligible because of the fourteenth Amendment, which says if you're 158 00:08:27,800 --> 00:08:32,680 Speaker 2: a federal official, can't commit acts of insurrection, or you're 159 00:08:32,679 --> 00:08:36,640 Speaker 2: disqualified from being on the ballot. And if a secretary 160 00:08:36,679 --> 00:08:40,240 Speaker 2: of State says no, he is eligible, then you can 161 00:08:40,320 --> 00:08:44,079 Speaker 2: expect somebody to sue saying they were wrong in making 162 00:08:44,120 --> 00:08:47,320 Speaker 2: that determination they're ineligible and take it to court. And 163 00:08:47,360 --> 00:08:51,280 Speaker 2: so the bottom line is this would be the Democrats 164 00:08:51,440 --> 00:08:56,120 Speaker 2: dream scenario that we nominate somebody at the convention that 165 00:08:56,160 --> 00:08:58,520 Speaker 2: will later be determined by the course to be ineligible 166 00:08:58,559 --> 00:08:59,800 Speaker 2: to hold office. 167 00:09:00,360 --> 00:09:03,240 Speaker 1: Are you talking to your fellow candidates about this? Might 168 00:09:03,280 --> 00:09:06,000 Speaker 1: there be I don't want to say class action, but 169 00:09:06,120 --> 00:09:09,760 Speaker 1: a cooperation in moving this issue forward. 170 00:09:10,400 --> 00:09:13,520 Speaker 2: I don't think it's necessary. This is going to play 171 00:09:13,520 --> 00:09:17,839 Speaker 2: out with the various secretary of States and different citizens 172 00:09:17,880 --> 00:09:23,040 Speaker 2: that want to raise this issue in court. So you know, 173 00:09:23,080 --> 00:09:26,880 Speaker 2: I made my case. I think it's important for the 174 00:09:27,040 --> 00:09:31,160 Speaker 2: public Republican voters to understand this risk and it should 175 00:09:31,200 --> 00:09:33,760 Speaker 2: be a factor in determine who's going to be our nominee. 176 00:09:34,080 --> 00:09:35,960 Speaker 2: That's why I raised in the debate. I was the 177 00:09:35,960 --> 00:09:38,760 Speaker 2: only one that talked about this. Yeah, and you know 178 00:09:38,840 --> 00:09:41,680 Speaker 2: you talk about he can't win in November, he can't 179 00:09:41,679 --> 00:09:44,920 Speaker 2: bring in independence, but also you've got this issue of 180 00:09:45,000 --> 00:09:48,840 Speaker 2: actually being disqualified under the fourteenth Amendment as another risk factor. 181 00:09:49,520 --> 00:09:53,439 Speaker 1: Lastly, when it talked when we talk about winning over independence, 182 00:09:54,520 --> 00:09:56,960 Speaker 1: is the issue the economy that will get that done? 183 00:09:57,040 --> 00:09:58,800 Speaker 1: Or is it something else we talk about so much 184 00:09:58,800 --> 00:10:01,840 Speaker 1: around here, But and we go back to it's the economy, stupid? 185 00:10:01,880 --> 00:10:03,520 Speaker 1: Is that actually what we'll decide this race? 186 00:10:04,040 --> 00:10:06,480 Speaker 2: Well, the economy is the number one issue, it is, 187 00:10:06,640 --> 00:10:12,520 Speaker 2: and independence voters trust Republicans to handle the economy more 188 00:10:12,559 --> 00:10:16,280 Speaker 2: so than Democrats, and so that's why it's going to 189 00:10:16,280 --> 00:10:19,400 Speaker 2: be a key political issue. But also when you ask 190 00:10:19,440 --> 00:10:22,640 Speaker 2: about bringing in independence, is more than just the economy. 191 00:10:22,640 --> 00:10:25,960 Speaker 2: It's also who's going to listen who's going to care, 192 00:10:26,440 --> 00:10:29,000 Speaker 2: who's going to take us in a rational way into 193 00:10:29,000 --> 00:10:31,959 Speaker 2: the future and lead our country. And so those are 194 00:10:32,000 --> 00:10:36,560 Speaker 2: some intangible qualities that independence will look at as well. 195 00:10:37,000 --> 00:10:42,280 Speaker 2: And they don't want a strident extremist is that leads 196 00:10:42,400 --> 00:10:45,240 Speaker 2: or somebody who's going to create chaos every day. They 197 00:10:45,320 --> 00:10:50,319 Speaker 2: want someone that will stand for their values and represent them, 198 00:10:50,640 --> 00:10:54,240 Speaker 2: but also set an example for young people and the 199 00:10:54,440 --> 00:10:56,160 Speaker 2: kind of leadership we need in our country. 200 00:10:56,240 --> 00:10:57,959 Speaker 1: Well, you know, we like to talk policy around here, 201 00:10:57,960 --> 00:10:59,599 Speaker 1: and you're always welcome at the table. It's great to 202 00:10:59,600 --> 00:11:01,600 Speaker 1: have you back. Governor will be looking for you at 203 00:11:01,600 --> 00:11:02,880 Speaker 1: the Rayan Library next month. 204 00:11:03,000 --> 00:11:03,640 Speaker 2: We'll see you there. 205 00:11:03,760 --> 00:11:06,880 Speaker 1: Thank you, Governor Asa Hutchinson. Of course, Republican presidential candidate 206 00:11:07,200 --> 00:11:09,320 Speaker 1: in a conversation you won't hear anywhere else today.