1 00:00:00,280 --> 00:00:15,360 Speaker 1: Rivals is a production of I Heart Radio. Hello everyone, 2 00:00:15,360 --> 00:00:18,000 Speaker 1: and welcome to Rivals, the show about music beefs and 3 00:00:18,040 --> 00:00:22,120 Speaker 1: feuds and long simmering resentments between musicians. I'm Steve and 4 00:00:22,120 --> 00:00:25,040 Speaker 1: I'm Jordan's and it's dueling. Diva's week here on Rivals 5 00:00:25,120 --> 00:00:28,280 Speaker 1: with two of the finest voices in pop history, Whitney 6 00:00:28,280 --> 00:00:32,159 Speaker 1: Houston and Mariah Carey, who I cannot wait. Their talent 7 00:00:32,440 --> 00:00:36,400 Speaker 1: is undeniable and fans have spent decades debating who's superior. 8 00:00:36,440 --> 00:00:38,720 Speaker 1: So we're gonna have Lambs to the left, Houston heads 9 00:00:38,720 --> 00:00:40,400 Speaker 1: to the right. I hope you brought a coat because 10 00:00:40,440 --> 00:00:42,440 Speaker 1: it's about to a little chili with all this shade 11 00:00:42,520 --> 00:00:45,080 Speaker 1: up in here, so you feel chilly, But I actually 12 00:00:45,080 --> 00:00:47,839 Speaker 1: feel extremely warm, just basking in the glow of all 13 00:00:47,880 --> 00:00:51,120 Speaker 1: of the star power. I mean, are there two bigger 14 00:00:51,200 --> 00:00:53,680 Speaker 1: singers in the history of pop music than Whitney Houston 15 00:00:53,720 --> 00:00:56,880 Speaker 1: and Mariah Carey. I mean, between these two ladies, they 16 00:00:56,880 --> 00:01:01,000 Speaker 1: are responsible for literally dozens of huge hits songs, and 17 00:01:01,080 --> 00:01:03,640 Speaker 1: yet when you are such a big star, it's really 18 00:01:03,680 --> 00:01:07,080 Speaker 1: hard to share the stage sometimes, especially when say you're 19 00:01:07,240 --> 00:01:09,679 Speaker 1: as big as Whitney Houston was in the eighties, and 20 00:01:09,720 --> 00:01:12,240 Speaker 1: another singer by the name of Maria Carey comes along 21 00:01:12,319 --> 00:01:15,399 Speaker 1: who becomes an equally big star, doing what appears to 22 00:01:15,480 --> 00:01:18,920 Speaker 1: be a close facsimile of your act. You're right, I 23 00:01:18,920 --> 00:01:20,800 Speaker 1: mean sometimes we have shows, but the guy who's saying 24 00:01:20,959 --> 00:01:23,319 Speaker 1: break stuff and the dude from creeds sometimes we do 25 00:01:23,360 --> 00:01:25,960 Speaker 1: shows or people throw shoes. These women are just in 26 00:01:26,000 --> 00:01:28,640 Speaker 1: a class of their own. When you consider the astronomical 27 00:01:28,640 --> 00:01:31,800 Speaker 1: sales figures, the hundreds of awards, the stunning statistics and 28 00:01:31,840 --> 00:01:34,399 Speaker 1: records broken between them, it just it boggles the mind. 29 00:01:34,760 --> 00:01:37,080 Speaker 1: And yet in spite of like all of that stardom, 30 00:01:37,480 --> 00:01:41,080 Speaker 1: we're talking about two human beings here, and they feel 31 00:01:41,240 --> 00:01:48,200 Speaker 1: very human emotions pettiness, jealousy, insecurity, and still more pettiness. 32 00:01:48,240 --> 00:01:51,680 Speaker 1: So I'm excited to get into it without further ado, 33 00:01:51,840 --> 00:01:58,160 Speaker 1: Let's get into this mess. Whitney Houston grew up referring 34 00:01:58,160 --> 00:02:00,800 Speaker 1: to her family friend the Wreatha Franklin as Auntie read. 35 00:02:01,400 --> 00:02:03,360 Speaker 1: I feel like when you're on a nickname basis with 36 00:02:03,400 --> 00:02:05,800 Speaker 1: the Queen of soul, that just you know that entitles 37 00:02:05,800 --> 00:02:08,920 Speaker 1: you to deva behavior for the rest of your life. 38 00:02:09,160 --> 00:02:11,320 Speaker 1: Whitney was basically destined to be a singer. Her mother, 39 00:02:11,440 --> 00:02:13,600 Speaker 1: Cissy Houston, was part of the vocal group of Sweet 40 00:02:13,600 --> 00:02:17,120 Speaker 1: Inspirations and her cousins Dion Warwick legend in her own right. 41 00:02:17,600 --> 00:02:20,280 Speaker 1: She began singing first in gospel choirs as a child 42 00:02:20,320 --> 00:02:22,400 Speaker 1: and then in clubs around new work as a teenager, 43 00:02:22,800 --> 00:02:24,640 Speaker 1: and when she was twelve she was a prodigy. She 44 00:02:24,680 --> 00:02:26,720 Speaker 1: was recruited as like a backing singer for people like 45 00:02:26,800 --> 00:02:29,680 Speaker 1: Lou Rawls and Shaka Khan. It's it's amazing how early 46 00:02:29,720 --> 00:02:32,600 Speaker 1: this started for and then um, she was twenty when 47 00:02:32,680 --> 00:02:36,040 Speaker 1: Clive Davis signed her do Arista Records and spent a 48 00:02:36,040 --> 00:02:38,360 Speaker 1: few years kind of like you know, doing the star 49 00:02:38,480 --> 00:02:42,080 Speaker 1: grooming thing and selecting material for her self titled debut 50 00:02:42,160 --> 00:02:45,280 Speaker 1: in Nive and it actually took off really slowly. The 51 00:02:45,360 --> 00:02:47,359 Speaker 1: label kind of thought it would be like a slow burn, 52 00:02:47,639 --> 00:02:49,639 Speaker 1: thinking that wouldn't even break like a hundred and fifty 53 00:02:49,639 --> 00:02:53,720 Speaker 1: thousand units sold, But it just shot off like a rocket, 54 00:02:53,760 --> 00:02:55,800 Speaker 1: and I think it earned two number one singles, How 55 00:02:55,840 --> 00:02:58,320 Speaker 1: Will I Know? And Saving All My Love for you? Yeah, so, 56 00:02:58,400 --> 00:03:00,240 Speaker 1: like I'm a little bit older than you, so like 57 00:03:00,360 --> 00:03:03,880 Speaker 1: I remember when Witty Houston first hit in the mid eighties, 58 00:03:03,919 --> 00:03:06,080 Speaker 1: I was around eight years old, and I was a 59 00:03:06,240 --> 00:03:09,120 Speaker 1: young budding music critic already at that time. I was 60 00:03:09,120 --> 00:03:13,080 Speaker 1: listening to Casey Cason's American Top forty every week, and 61 00:03:13,400 --> 00:03:16,359 Speaker 1: so I knew Whitney Houston songs very well. And she 62 00:03:16,760 --> 00:03:19,800 Speaker 1: just seemed like she was ubiquitous as soon as that 63 00:03:19,840 --> 00:03:23,040 Speaker 1: record hit. And it was the type of songs that really, 64 00:03:23,080 --> 00:03:25,160 Speaker 1: like an eight year old like me could understand, or 65 00:03:25,200 --> 00:03:27,640 Speaker 1: like an eighty year old could like you know, it 66 00:03:27,720 --> 00:03:30,000 Speaker 1: was they were very middle of the road. You mentioned 67 00:03:30,000 --> 00:03:32,120 Speaker 1: some of those songs that were hits off of that record, 68 00:03:32,120 --> 00:03:33,799 Speaker 1: how Will I Know, Saving All My Love for You, 69 00:03:34,200 --> 00:03:36,840 Speaker 1: also songs like the Greatest Love of All you give 70 00:03:36,840 --> 00:03:39,800 Speaker 1: good Love. I mean, these are songs I remember hearing 71 00:03:39,880 --> 00:03:42,200 Speaker 1: at like the doctor's office when I was a kid. 72 00:03:42,280 --> 00:03:45,360 Speaker 1: I mean, they were just everywhere, very safe, and I think, 73 00:03:45,400 --> 00:03:46,960 Speaker 1: you know, if you're going to compare her to like 74 00:03:47,120 --> 00:03:50,320 Speaker 1: the other big superstars of pop music at that time, 75 00:03:50,400 --> 00:03:53,000 Speaker 1: like you know, Michael Jackson, Prince Madonna, I feel like 76 00:03:53,080 --> 00:03:56,280 Speaker 1: most pop stars had some element of danger to them. 77 00:03:56,320 --> 00:03:58,320 Speaker 1: You know, they were there was something edgy about their 78 00:03:58,320 --> 00:04:01,720 Speaker 1: act that would upset parents and therefore, you know, further 79 00:04:01,800 --> 00:04:06,440 Speaker 1: and dear kids to these superstars. There was nothing edgy 80 00:04:06,480 --> 00:04:10,600 Speaker 1: about Whitney Houston. You know, she was someone that everyone loved, 81 00:04:10,720 --> 00:04:14,200 Speaker 1: and I think that because of that, she actually did 82 00:04:14,240 --> 00:04:16,799 Speaker 1: become controversial I think by the end of the eighties 83 00:04:16,839 --> 00:04:20,360 Speaker 1: because I think, especially like among like black music listeners, 84 00:04:20,440 --> 00:04:23,560 Speaker 1: there was this feeling that Whitney Houston was pandering to 85 00:04:23,600 --> 00:04:26,120 Speaker 1: a white audience essentially that she was the biggest star 86 00:04:26,160 --> 00:04:29,000 Speaker 1: in R and B. But like, there wasn't anything gritty 87 00:04:29,000 --> 00:04:31,359 Speaker 1: about her music. There wasn't anything like edgy. There was 88 00:04:31,400 --> 00:04:33,400 Speaker 1: no like real excitement. It just seemed like it was 89 00:04:33,680 --> 00:04:37,320 Speaker 1: you know, pitched towards like middle American listeners. And I know, 90 00:04:37,440 --> 00:04:38,760 Speaker 1: like there was a story, I think it was in 91 00:04:38,800 --> 00:04:41,440 Speaker 1: Time magazine where they referred to her as the prom 92 00:04:41,560 --> 00:04:45,119 Speaker 1: queen of soul, you know, which was not a compliment. Yeah, 93 00:04:45,200 --> 00:04:49,600 Speaker 1: she wasn't very cool basically, but she was enormously successful, 94 00:04:49,720 --> 00:04:54,120 Speaker 1: you know, again from she had seven number one songs, 95 00:04:54,520 --> 00:04:56,919 Speaker 1: that is insane. As much as you know, there was 96 00:04:57,120 --> 00:05:00,400 Speaker 1: I think a growing group of critics that were, uh, 97 00:05:00,440 --> 00:05:02,359 Speaker 1: you know, not really feeling what she was doing. I 98 00:05:02,400 --> 00:05:04,760 Speaker 1: think again, like in the pop mainstream, what she was 99 00:05:04,800 --> 00:05:07,000 Speaker 1: doing was working, you know, she was a huge star 100 00:05:07,440 --> 00:05:10,440 Speaker 1: just I think the critic uh Mark Anthony Neal wrote 101 00:05:10,440 --> 00:05:11,960 Speaker 1: that there was sort of an effort to make her 102 00:05:12,040 --> 00:05:15,440 Speaker 1: the unblacked black artist, and some black radio stations refused 103 00:05:15,440 --> 00:05:17,559 Speaker 1: a player. I think she was booed at the Soul 104 00:05:17,600 --> 00:05:19,880 Speaker 1: Train Awards, So it's really interesting now to think from 105 00:05:19,880 --> 00:05:24,120 Speaker 1: this vantage point. Yeah, they're calling her Whitey Houston, Whitney Houston, 106 00:05:24,160 --> 00:05:27,640 Speaker 1: which is like a pretty brutal for her. Yeah, I 107 00:05:27,640 --> 00:05:30,480 Speaker 1: think it just speaks again. I think, especially at that time, 108 00:05:30,640 --> 00:05:33,359 Speaker 1: to be like a crossover artist, it just required I 109 00:05:33,400 --> 00:05:35,559 Speaker 1: think concessions that I think for a lot of people 110 00:05:35,560 --> 00:05:38,160 Speaker 1: were just uncomfortable, you know that, like you were in 111 00:05:38,240 --> 00:05:40,440 Speaker 1: some way sort of denying who you are in order 112 00:05:40,440 --> 00:05:43,080 Speaker 1: to appeal again to this sort of like massive Middle 113 00:05:43,120 --> 00:05:46,039 Speaker 1: American audience. Which is funny now because I hear those 114 00:05:46,240 --> 00:05:47,839 Speaker 1: sort of the early pop songs she was doing, and 115 00:05:47,880 --> 00:05:50,400 Speaker 1: it sounds really innovative to me, kind of blending the 116 00:05:50,560 --> 00:05:52,599 Speaker 1: blend of R and B and pop, Like it seems like, 117 00:05:52,880 --> 00:05:54,960 Speaker 1: you know, not going the straight R and B route 118 00:05:55,000 --> 00:05:56,560 Speaker 1: was a way to sort of like build on the 119 00:05:56,560 --> 00:05:58,560 Speaker 1: people that came before her. I feel like, I don't know, 120 00:05:58,680 --> 00:06:01,320 Speaker 1: I maybe because I I had to rediscover those songs. 121 00:06:01,360 --> 00:06:02,760 Speaker 1: I didn't really grow up with a lot of those 122 00:06:02,800 --> 00:06:04,240 Speaker 1: because I was born in eighty seven, so I was 123 00:06:04,279 --> 00:06:06,560 Speaker 1: kind of right. I think the number one song when 124 00:06:06,560 --> 00:06:09,159 Speaker 1: I was born was I think it was how well 125 00:06:09,160 --> 00:06:11,520 Speaker 1: I know, I think, But yeah, hearing them now, they 126 00:06:11,600 --> 00:06:15,600 Speaker 1: still sound really fresh and interesting. But got seven number ones. 127 00:06:15,640 --> 00:06:18,640 Speaker 1: I think she was the first person to do the 128 00:06:18,680 --> 00:06:21,479 Speaker 1: first female artist, the first artist period who has seven 129 00:06:21,560 --> 00:06:24,279 Speaker 1: number ones in a row. I mean, yeah, an incredible run. Yeah, 130 00:06:24,279 --> 00:06:25,880 Speaker 1: I mean I think it's true of like her upbeat 131 00:06:25,960 --> 00:06:28,080 Speaker 1: songs you're talking about them sounding fresh today, but like 132 00:06:28,120 --> 00:06:30,760 Speaker 1: she did also do like a lot of these very 133 00:06:30,920 --> 00:06:33,920 Speaker 1: soft rock ballads again, like the Greatest Love of All, 134 00:06:34,240 --> 00:06:36,480 Speaker 1: like Saving All My Love for You, like which Are 135 00:06:36,680 --> 00:06:39,839 Speaker 1: Again it was like dentist office music. Yeah, And I 136 00:06:39,839 --> 00:06:43,080 Speaker 1: think what like redeems those recordings is Whitney Houston's voice. 137 00:06:43,400 --> 00:06:47,320 Speaker 1: She's such an incredible singer that when she does material 138 00:06:47,360 --> 00:06:50,440 Speaker 1: that is kind of like schmaltzy pap, she can sell 139 00:06:50,480 --> 00:06:52,800 Speaker 1: it because she has so much soul in her voice. 140 00:06:52,800 --> 00:06:55,520 Speaker 1: But yeah, the material itself, I think sometimes could really 141 00:06:55,600 --> 00:06:59,480 Speaker 1: kind of veer into like snoozeville at that time, So 142 00:06:59,520 --> 00:07:01,840 Speaker 1: She's in the middle of an incredible run when Mariah 143 00:07:01,880 --> 00:07:04,359 Speaker 1: Carey burst into the scene in with the release of 144 00:07:04,440 --> 00:07:07,320 Speaker 1: vision of Love, which she wrote that song as a teenager, 145 00:07:07,360 --> 00:07:10,520 Speaker 1: which I didn't realize that. I mean, just totally virtualistic, 146 00:07:10,680 --> 00:07:13,400 Speaker 1: not only voice, but just her songwriting capability is amazing. 147 00:07:13,440 --> 00:07:16,920 Speaker 1: Maria's uh, she's barely in her twenties. Her debut LP 148 00:07:17,040 --> 00:07:21,960 Speaker 1: sells fifteen million worldwide, which is several million more than 149 00:07:22,000 --> 00:07:26,160 Speaker 1: Houston's still insanely high selling I'm Your Baby Tonight and 150 00:07:26,160 --> 00:07:28,920 Speaker 1: and this is when Whitney's started to take a dip commercially, 151 00:07:29,120 --> 00:07:31,560 Speaker 1: ever so slightly. I think Clive Davis said he was 152 00:07:31,600 --> 00:07:34,160 Speaker 1: trying to aim her towards the sort of the traditionally 153 00:07:34,320 --> 00:07:37,480 Speaker 1: black market that she'd been accused of neglecting. Uh, it's 154 00:07:37,560 --> 00:07:39,680 Speaker 1: kind of had a little bit of a New jack 155 00:07:39,760 --> 00:07:42,640 Speaker 1: Swing sound on that on that album, which I think 156 00:07:42,640 --> 00:07:44,640 Speaker 1: it was her first LP that didn't make number one. 157 00:07:44,720 --> 00:07:47,320 Speaker 1: I mean it made it number three, which is still great, 158 00:07:47,440 --> 00:07:52,120 Speaker 1: but uh, but the Mariah just absolutely explodes. She was 159 00:07:52,160 --> 00:07:54,240 Speaker 1: the first artist since the Jackson five to have her 160 00:07:54,240 --> 00:07:56,720 Speaker 1: first four singles top the charts. You got Visional Love, 161 00:07:56,920 --> 00:07:59,600 Speaker 1: Love Takes Time, someday and I don't want to cry. 162 00:07:59,760 --> 00:08:02,239 Speaker 1: How of a run? Yeah, And again this was another 163 00:08:02,280 --> 00:08:04,800 Speaker 1: instance where I mean, I remember when that record came out. 164 00:08:04,800 --> 00:08:06,560 Speaker 1: I guess I was in middle school when the first 165 00:08:06,600 --> 00:08:09,600 Speaker 1: Mariah Carey record dropped, and that was like another instance 166 00:08:09,600 --> 00:08:13,200 Speaker 1: of like a pop star arriving fully formed, like she 167 00:08:13,440 --> 00:08:15,960 Speaker 1: was just everywhere. There wasn't like really like a ramp 168 00:08:16,040 --> 00:08:18,520 Speaker 1: up period with her, the way you feel like there's 169 00:08:18,560 --> 00:08:20,080 Speaker 1: with a lot of artists where maybe you put your 170 00:08:20,120 --> 00:08:22,000 Speaker 1: first record and it does okay, and then your second 171 00:08:22,040 --> 00:08:24,240 Speaker 1: record is the big one. It's like her first single 172 00:08:24,280 --> 00:08:26,520 Speaker 1: was vision of Love, and that was an enormous hit, 173 00:08:26,600 --> 00:08:30,080 Speaker 1: and then she just kept having huge hit after huge hit, 174 00:08:30,480 --> 00:08:33,520 Speaker 1: And I think it was natural at the time for 175 00:08:33,640 --> 00:08:35,959 Speaker 1: people to look at Mariah Carey and feel like, oh, 176 00:08:35,960 --> 00:08:37,959 Speaker 1: this is like the next Whitney Houston. You know, it's 177 00:08:38,160 --> 00:08:41,520 Speaker 1: it felt I think immediately like that, just because she 178 00:08:41,640 --> 00:08:44,360 Speaker 1: had the same sort of vocal range that Whitney Houston had, 179 00:08:44,679 --> 00:08:48,040 Speaker 1: and I think early on especially, she was singing the 180 00:08:48,120 --> 00:08:50,560 Speaker 1: same types of songs like it was again the girl 181 00:08:50,600 --> 00:08:53,120 Speaker 1: next door type image. Like if you look at the 182 00:08:53,200 --> 00:08:57,959 Speaker 1: video for Vision of Love, it's interesting comparing Mariah Carey 183 00:08:58,040 --> 00:09:00,480 Speaker 1: then to like what she became because us I think 184 00:09:00,480 --> 00:09:05,280 Speaker 1: Mariah Carey, unlike Whitney Houston, was able to bring other 185 00:09:05,320 --> 00:09:07,439 Speaker 1: elements into her music that weren't just sort of like 186 00:09:07,480 --> 00:09:09,880 Speaker 1: the middle of the road pop like. She proved that 187 00:09:09,960 --> 00:09:11,959 Speaker 1: she was like on top of like the latest in 188 00:09:12,120 --> 00:09:15,000 Speaker 1: R and B like as her like subsequent records came out, 189 00:09:15,400 --> 00:09:17,760 Speaker 1: and it seemed like she had much more of an 190 00:09:17,840 --> 00:09:21,719 Speaker 1: edge than Whitney Houston ever had um and I think 191 00:09:21,760 --> 00:09:24,559 Speaker 1: that's why in a way, she ended up maybe having 192 00:09:24,960 --> 00:09:27,240 Speaker 1: a longer career at least like in terms of being 193 00:09:27,240 --> 00:09:29,280 Speaker 1: a pop star. I feel like her peak lasted longer 194 00:09:29,280 --> 00:09:32,439 Speaker 1: than Whitney Houston's did. But like early on, it seemed 195 00:09:32,480 --> 00:09:35,240 Speaker 1: like she definitely was following that Whitney Houston template of 196 00:09:35,280 --> 00:09:38,319 Speaker 1: like being the nice girl with the big boys who's 197 00:09:38,320 --> 00:09:41,679 Speaker 1: singing these sort of romantic ballads where you know, if 198 00:09:41,720 --> 00:09:44,200 Speaker 1: you're a female listener, you want to be Mariah Carey, 199 00:09:44,200 --> 00:09:45,680 Speaker 1: and if you're like a male listener, you want to 200 00:09:45,720 --> 00:09:47,880 Speaker 1: be with her. It just seemed like this is someone 201 00:09:47,920 --> 00:09:51,439 Speaker 1: designed to appeal to everybody exactly. I think, Mariah, did 202 00:09:51,440 --> 00:09:53,240 Speaker 1: you want to be cast as a new Whitney Houston. 203 00:09:53,320 --> 00:09:55,400 Speaker 1: A lot of that I think was it was Tommy 204 00:09:55,440 --> 00:09:58,880 Speaker 1: Montola's doing, was the head of her record label, Columbia, 205 00:09:59,000 --> 00:10:02,120 Speaker 1: and her future husband for a while and uh, and 206 00:10:02,280 --> 00:10:05,400 Speaker 1: he had been sort of tasked with his job at 207 00:10:05,400 --> 00:10:08,280 Speaker 1: Columbia of sort of filling the pop d of a 208 00:10:08,320 --> 00:10:11,040 Speaker 1: slot that Barbra Streissan had been filling for years and 209 00:10:11,120 --> 00:10:13,640 Speaker 1: years for the label. But she'd kind of stopped releasing 210 00:10:13,679 --> 00:10:17,080 Speaker 1: records really consistently. She started mostly focusing on her movie career, 211 00:10:17,480 --> 00:10:20,600 Speaker 1: so she wanted somebody to sort of compete with, you know, 212 00:10:21,280 --> 00:10:23,800 Speaker 1: Whitney Houston. It was the reigning diva at that point. 213 00:10:24,200 --> 00:10:27,200 Speaker 1: And I heard the story about how how he and 214 00:10:27,200 --> 00:10:30,600 Speaker 1: and Mariah linked up. I'm sure it was totally above 215 00:10:30,640 --> 00:10:33,240 Speaker 1: board and not at all sleazy in the matter of 216 00:10:33,240 --> 00:10:36,960 Speaker 1: many music industry stories. I mean, the official version is, 217 00:10:37,200 --> 00:10:40,400 Speaker 1: which is probably apocryphal, is like a modern Cinderella. I 218 00:10:40,400 --> 00:10:43,400 Speaker 1: guess she walked out to him at some like industry 219 00:10:43,640 --> 00:10:46,520 Speaker 1: party in hand and pressed her mixtape into his hand. 220 00:10:46,920 --> 00:10:48,920 Speaker 1: And then he's he's leaving the party and he's in 221 00:10:48,960 --> 00:10:51,160 Speaker 1: his limo and he puts the cassette in the in 222 00:10:51,200 --> 00:10:53,960 Speaker 1: the stereo and he's listening to it and he's blown away. 223 00:10:54,320 --> 00:10:56,200 Speaker 1: He orders the limo driver to turn the car go 224 00:10:56,240 --> 00:10:58,160 Speaker 1: back to the party immediately. I gotta find this woman, 225 00:10:58,520 --> 00:11:00,679 Speaker 1: and you know, it's a total Cinderella store, and she's gone. 226 00:11:00,800 --> 00:11:04,000 Speaker 1: He spends weeks trying to track Maria down and eventually 227 00:11:04,400 --> 00:11:08,880 Speaker 1: he does and and he uh really wants to basically 228 00:11:08,920 --> 00:11:12,880 Speaker 1: make her competition for for Whitney Houston. He hires some 229 00:11:12,960 --> 00:11:16,280 Speaker 1: of the same people who worked on Whitney's promotions over 230 00:11:16,320 --> 00:11:20,280 Speaker 1: at Arista Records. UH taps uh narda Michael Walden, who 231 00:11:20,320 --> 00:11:22,240 Speaker 1: produced Whitney's hits like how Will I Know? And I 232 00:11:22,240 --> 00:11:24,880 Speaker 1: want to dance with somebody to oversee visions of love. 233 00:11:25,000 --> 00:11:28,079 Speaker 1: And Mariah really resisted this. She wanted to work with 234 00:11:28,920 --> 00:11:32,080 Speaker 1: her collaborator Ben Markolas and and oversee the production herself. 235 00:11:32,080 --> 00:11:34,319 Speaker 1: And I think she actually did produce one of the 236 00:11:34,360 --> 00:11:37,880 Speaker 1: songs in her debute herself, but it was mostly Tommy 237 00:11:37,920 --> 00:11:39,920 Speaker 1: Motola is doing to kind of like push her down 238 00:11:39,920 --> 00:11:42,240 Speaker 1: that route. I think, Yeah, the Tommy Matola angle, I'm 239 00:11:42,320 --> 00:11:45,160 Speaker 1: very curious about. And you know, unfortunately we're recording this 240 00:11:45,280 --> 00:11:48,560 Speaker 1: before Mariah Carey's book comes out. She wrote a book 241 00:11:48,559 --> 00:11:51,360 Speaker 1: called The Meeting of Mariah Carey, and I think I 242 00:11:51,440 --> 00:11:53,920 Speaker 1: have a feeling that there's probably some good Tommy Matola 243 00:11:54,000 --> 00:11:56,319 Speaker 1: dish in there, because you know, they ended up getting 244 00:11:56,360 --> 00:12:00,040 Speaker 1: married and divorced, and uh, you know again, like I, 245 00:12:00,040 --> 00:12:02,559 Speaker 1: I assume that every head of a record label is 246 00:12:02,600 --> 00:12:05,720 Speaker 1: a sleeves bag, So I'm assuming that there's there's some 247 00:12:05,760 --> 00:12:08,040 Speaker 1: sleazy material. That's why I made that joke before. I 248 00:12:08,120 --> 00:12:11,440 Speaker 1: just feel like, you know, Tommy Montola probably had designs 249 00:12:11,440 --> 00:12:14,640 Speaker 1: on Mariah Carey that went beyond just music. You know, 250 00:12:14,679 --> 00:12:16,560 Speaker 1: from the get go, it seems like there was something 251 00:12:16,600 --> 00:12:20,120 Speaker 1: weird going on with him and as he looked at her. 252 00:12:20,160 --> 00:12:21,720 Speaker 1: But yeah, you're right. I mean, it seemed like there 253 00:12:21,760 --> 00:12:24,680 Speaker 1: was a conscious effort in a very sort of typical 254 00:12:24,760 --> 00:12:28,720 Speaker 1: music industry move to like just replicate oh known formula, 255 00:12:28,720 --> 00:12:32,000 Speaker 1: which was Whitney Houston very successful. You know, Now we 256 00:12:32,080 --> 00:12:34,400 Speaker 1: have another singer who's great, and we'll just kind of 257 00:12:34,400 --> 00:12:37,240 Speaker 1: fit her in that mold. And I think what allowed 258 00:12:37,280 --> 00:12:39,440 Speaker 1: Mariah Carey, I think, to have the kind of career 259 00:12:39,480 --> 00:12:42,120 Speaker 1: that she's had because again, I feel like her peak 260 00:12:42,720 --> 00:12:45,360 Speaker 1: lasted longer than Whitney Houston. I think Whitney Houston's peak 261 00:12:45,400 --> 00:12:49,000 Speaker 1: really was that late eighties peak going into the Bodyguards soundtrack, 262 00:12:49,080 --> 00:12:51,280 Speaker 1: so that's about like a seven year run and then 263 00:12:51,320 --> 00:12:53,520 Speaker 1: it starts to dip I think a little bit after that, 264 00:12:53,760 --> 00:12:56,960 Speaker 1: whereas Mariah Carey has had like a decade plus. I 265 00:12:56,960 --> 00:12:59,440 Speaker 1: mean she owned the nineties, she had like a little 266 00:12:59,440 --> 00:13:00,840 Speaker 1: bit of a dip, and then she was able to 267 00:13:00,840 --> 00:13:04,959 Speaker 1: come back strong, you know, yeah, exactly in the adds. 268 00:13:05,000 --> 00:13:06,679 Speaker 1: And she's always kind of been relevant, like for the 269 00:13:06,760 --> 00:13:09,000 Speaker 1: last thirty years, like she'll bubble up and do something, 270 00:13:09,040 --> 00:13:10,880 Speaker 1: and of course you know all I Want for Christmas 271 00:13:10,920 --> 00:13:13,720 Speaker 1: as you has made her immortal, uh in a way 272 00:13:13,920 --> 00:13:15,720 Speaker 1: like you know, that's a song that we'll be hearing, 273 00:13:15,840 --> 00:13:18,160 Speaker 1: you know, long after we're all you know, passed away, 274 00:13:18,200 --> 00:13:20,360 Speaker 1: people will still be playing that song. But yeah, I 275 00:13:20,400 --> 00:13:23,200 Speaker 1: think with Maria Carey she was able to take control 276 00:13:23,240 --> 00:13:25,520 Speaker 1: of her career creatively. I think in a way that 277 00:13:25,520 --> 00:13:28,680 Speaker 1: Whitney Houston wasn't that because she was a songwriter and 278 00:13:28,720 --> 00:13:32,040 Speaker 1: a producer, that once she was successful, she could kind 279 00:13:32,080 --> 00:13:35,199 Speaker 1: of break out of that mold of like the prom 280 00:13:35,280 --> 00:13:38,120 Speaker 1: queen pop star and become I think what she really 281 00:13:38,160 --> 00:13:39,400 Speaker 1: wanted to be, which was more of like an R 282 00:13:39,440 --> 00:13:41,319 Speaker 1: and B singer and you could see that really start 283 00:13:41,520 --> 00:13:44,559 Speaker 1: to come into play, like with her next record, Emotions, 284 00:13:44,559 --> 00:13:47,240 Speaker 1: where she was a big part of that record. I 285 00:13:47,240 --> 00:13:49,560 Speaker 1: think she was like co producing and co arranging like 286 00:13:49,600 --> 00:13:52,640 Speaker 1: every track on that record for the most part. And 287 00:13:52,880 --> 00:13:54,960 Speaker 1: it makes me feel sad. I guess comparing her to 288 00:13:54,960 --> 00:13:56,800 Speaker 1: Whitney Houston because I think there's so much about the 289 00:13:56,800 --> 00:14:01,000 Speaker 1: Whitney Houston story where she was compelled to like put 290 00:14:01,080 --> 00:14:04,080 Speaker 1: up this facade of perfection. You know that she was 291 00:14:04,120 --> 00:14:07,040 Speaker 1: like again, it's like perfect pop star, saying these like, 292 00:14:07,160 --> 00:14:11,359 Speaker 1: you know, immaculate songs that everyone could like, and uh, 293 00:14:11,520 --> 00:14:13,480 Speaker 1: you know, there was nothing that was allowed to sort 294 00:14:13,480 --> 00:14:16,360 Speaker 1: of rub up against that image. And you can see 295 00:14:16,400 --> 00:14:18,680 Speaker 1: with her at some point she can't keep that facade 296 00:14:18,720 --> 00:14:21,480 Speaker 1: up anymore. I just wondered to what degree the pressure 297 00:14:21,960 --> 00:14:24,880 Speaker 1: to be perfect, you know, ended up doing real damage 298 00:14:24,920 --> 00:14:26,960 Speaker 1: to her in the long run. Yeah, it almost reminded 299 00:14:27,000 --> 00:14:29,160 Speaker 1: me of Michael Jackson in some ways, to that kind 300 00:14:29,160 --> 00:14:32,120 Speaker 1: of like Motown fame factory thing. I mean, clud Davis 301 00:14:32,520 --> 00:14:34,360 Speaker 1: certainly did put a lot of pressure on her, you know, 302 00:14:34,400 --> 00:14:37,160 Speaker 1: with elocution lessons and all that kind of stuff. I'm 303 00:14:37,160 --> 00:14:40,280 Speaker 1: sure that that was that that was rough and you know, 304 00:14:40,520 --> 00:14:42,800 Speaker 1: you kind of see a crack in the facade. In 305 00:14:42,840 --> 00:14:46,840 Speaker 1: an interview she gave interview on European television I think 306 00:14:46,840 --> 00:14:51,040 Speaker 1: where she's asked about Mariah Carey and you know what 307 00:14:51,120 --> 00:14:54,320 Speaker 1: she thinks of her? And you see this sort of 308 00:14:54,480 --> 00:14:57,720 Speaker 1: flash behind her eyes with it like snap decision of 309 00:14:58,240 --> 00:15:00,320 Speaker 1: how do I answer this? How do I get get 310 00:15:00,440 --> 00:15:03,480 Speaker 1: you know, how real do I get here? And she 311 00:15:03,480 --> 00:15:05,840 Speaker 1: said what do I what do I think of her? Well, 312 00:15:06,080 --> 00:15:09,800 Speaker 1: I don't think of her, which if you've never seen 313 00:15:09,840 --> 00:15:14,720 Speaker 1: this clip is go on YouTube. He is like rais 314 00:15:14,840 --> 00:15:16,840 Speaker 1: or yeah, and I'll pause this and go watch it. 315 00:15:16,880 --> 00:15:19,600 Speaker 1: I mean, it's just I cannot do justice to just 316 00:15:19,960 --> 00:15:22,600 Speaker 1: the razor sharp pauses, just her eyes like kind of 317 00:15:22,640 --> 00:15:26,280 Speaker 1: blankly scan the room for like just the perfect response, 318 00:15:26,560 --> 00:15:29,480 Speaker 1: and the studio audience like starts hooting. It sounds like 319 00:15:29,480 --> 00:15:32,560 Speaker 1: a Jerry Springer episode, Like she's just like and she 320 00:15:32,600 --> 00:15:34,960 Speaker 1: tries to back pedal a little bit. She says, musically, 321 00:15:35,000 --> 00:15:37,720 Speaker 1: I think she's a good singer, A good singer. I mean, 322 00:15:37,720 --> 00:15:39,840 Speaker 1: I know you're Whitney Houston, but you know, maybe you 323 00:15:39,840 --> 00:15:43,000 Speaker 1: can see that Mariah is a great singer because she's yeah, 324 00:15:43,040 --> 00:15:46,600 Speaker 1: he's a great singer. See, Like I appreciate this moment though, 325 00:15:46,640 --> 00:15:50,280 Speaker 1: because again, the facade of perfection that she had to 326 00:15:50,360 --> 00:15:53,760 Speaker 1: put up in the eighties I think was oppressive ultimately, 327 00:15:53,960 --> 00:15:58,000 Speaker 1: and like, and I do think it was harmful for her. 328 00:15:58,080 --> 00:16:01,520 Speaker 1: I mean, it's hard for anyone to keep this image 329 00:16:01,560 --> 00:16:03,920 Speaker 1: that like you're you know, that you're always happy, that 330 00:16:04,000 --> 00:16:07,160 Speaker 1: you like everyone, that you're just this sort of universally 331 00:16:07,200 --> 00:16:10,360 Speaker 1: adored pop star. It's like she's a human being, and 332 00:16:10,400 --> 00:16:13,400 Speaker 1: I understand her perspective in this situation. It's like, you're 333 00:16:13,400 --> 00:16:16,360 Speaker 1: asking me about Mariah Carey, this woman who's just come out, 334 00:16:16,400 --> 00:16:18,160 Speaker 1: she had like one record at that point. It's like, 335 00:16:18,200 --> 00:16:21,720 Speaker 1: I'm Whitney Houston, you know, like I am already acknowledged 336 00:16:21,760 --> 00:16:24,040 Speaker 1: as one of the greatest singers of all time, and 337 00:16:24,080 --> 00:16:26,800 Speaker 1: now you're asking me about this person who really doesn't 338 00:16:26,800 --> 00:16:29,560 Speaker 1: have much of a legacy. Yet. You know, from her perspective, 339 00:16:29,600 --> 00:16:32,479 Speaker 1: I can see like how that would be a little aggravating. 340 00:16:33,000 --> 00:16:35,000 Speaker 1: And I'm also you know, I'm sure that on some 341 00:16:35,080 --> 00:16:37,600 Speaker 1: level she was also feeling a little bit threatened to 342 00:16:37,840 --> 00:16:40,320 Speaker 1: I mean, I'm sure that was part of it. But 343 00:16:40,600 --> 00:16:43,720 Speaker 1: you know, again, this idea that like she wasn't allowed 344 00:16:44,160 --> 00:16:47,320 Speaker 1: to have like a real human emotion that like, any 345 00:16:47,360 --> 00:16:51,160 Speaker 1: time she would let her real self show, you know, 346 00:16:51,240 --> 00:16:54,680 Speaker 1: people would get upset about it or be controversial. You 347 00:16:54,720 --> 00:16:57,000 Speaker 1: know that. That's just sad to me. It's like, no, 348 00:16:57,120 --> 00:17:00,680 Speaker 1: she should be allowed to be annoyed by Mariah Carey. 349 00:17:00,720 --> 00:17:04,160 Speaker 1: I think that's perfectly acceptable on her part. Um. It's 350 00:17:04,160 --> 00:17:06,960 Speaker 1: funny too, because like on the Mariah Carey side, there 351 00:17:07,000 --> 00:17:08,879 Speaker 1: was an incident around this time to like where she 352 00:17:08,920 --> 00:17:12,440 Speaker 1: allegedly like snubbed Whitney Houston. Like do you know this story, oh, 353 00:17:12,560 --> 00:17:15,439 Speaker 1: the baby winning story. Yeah, Like, well, this was like 354 00:17:15,480 --> 00:17:18,280 Speaker 1: at the American Music Awards and I guess it's like 355 00:17:18,320 --> 00:17:22,880 Speaker 1: early and you know, Whitney Houston's there obviously, as as 356 00:17:22,920 --> 00:17:24,919 Speaker 1: is Mariah Carey. You know, again there are two of 357 00:17:24,960 --> 00:17:28,199 Speaker 1: the big pop stars at this moment. And this was 358 00:17:28,240 --> 00:17:30,439 Speaker 1: like right around the time I think that Whitney Houston 359 00:17:30,600 --> 00:17:33,240 Speaker 1: was going to be at the super Bowl performing the 360 00:17:33,320 --> 00:17:35,680 Speaker 1: national anthem, which is like the Awards show was the 361 00:17:35,760 --> 00:17:38,879 Speaker 1: day after, So she is peak Whitney Houston. She has 362 00:17:39,000 --> 00:17:42,880 Speaker 1: walked off that off the super Bowl field, figure she's 363 00:17:42,880 --> 00:17:45,320 Speaker 1: ever been and really like, okay, that game that was 364 00:17:45,359 --> 00:17:47,560 Speaker 1: I think the Giants and and the Buffalo Bills, the 365 00:17:47,560 --> 00:17:50,800 Speaker 1: Scott Norwood missing the field goal, which is an iconic play. 366 00:17:50,840 --> 00:17:52,840 Speaker 1: But I feel like Whitney Houston won the Super Bowl 367 00:17:53,000 --> 00:17:56,439 Speaker 1: because that's that national anthem. Like I remember that, like 368 00:17:56,520 --> 00:17:59,760 Speaker 1: that was released as a single, Like people thought that 369 00:17:59,760 --> 00:18:03,440 Speaker 1: that was like the greatest version of the national anthem ever, 370 00:18:03,600 --> 00:18:05,440 Speaker 1: Like it really had that reputation at the time. And 371 00:18:05,480 --> 00:18:07,600 Speaker 1: I think even now, if people are going to talk 372 00:18:07,640 --> 00:18:10,600 Speaker 1: about like the most memorable renditions of that song, they 373 00:18:10,640 --> 00:18:13,680 Speaker 1: probably talk about that, And like the Marvin Gay star 374 00:18:13,760 --> 00:18:15,920 Speaker 1: spangled banner from the NBA All Star Game in the 375 00:18:16,000 --> 00:18:18,040 Speaker 1: early eighties, Like it's hard for me to think of 376 00:18:18,080 --> 00:18:21,240 Speaker 1: like another anthem that comes even close to that. I 377 00:18:21,240 --> 00:18:25,280 Speaker 1: think Whitney is definitely the like gold standard for like 378 00:18:25,600 --> 00:18:28,280 Speaker 1: just belting that song out and killing it. So anyway, 379 00:18:28,320 --> 00:18:31,640 Speaker 1: she is like just pique Whitney Houston. You can't funk 380 00:18:31,640 --> 00:18:33,840 Speaker 1: with Whitney Houston at this time. But yeah, she's with 381 00:18:33,880 --> 00:18:36,600 Speaker 1: BB Whinings and like doesn't BB say like, hey, Maria 382 00:18:36,680 --> 00:18:38,800 Speaker 1: Carry is over there, you should go say hi? Yeah, 383 00:18:38,840 --> 00:18:41,440 Speaker 1: because Mariah had performed at the Awards show that night, 384 00:18:41,520 --> 00:18:43,479 Speaker 1: so like, yeah, maybe go say something nice to her, like, 385 00:18:43,520 --> 00:18:46,520 Speaker 1: you know, nice job or something. So like Queen Whitney Houston. Again, 386 00:18:46,600 --> 00:18:48,880 Speaker 1: queen she has like she's like Queen of America essentially 387 00:18:48,920 --> 00:18:51,719 Speaker 1: because just because she's sung the national anthem better than 388 00:18:51,720 --> 00:18:54,480 Speaker 1: anyone ever, she still said like, Okay, I'll go say 389 00:18:54,480 --> 00:18:57,679 Speaker 1: how to Mariah Carey and Mariah Carrey, like doesn't she 390 00:18:57,720 --> 00:19:00,639 Speaker 1: like pretend not to hear her a pair? That's what 391 00:19:00,720 --> 00:19:03,600 Speaker 1: Bebe said. He said that that she just totally blew 392 00:19:03,640 --> 00:19:05,840 Speaker 1: her off and pretended didn't hear it, didn't didn't turn around, 393 00:19:05,840 --> 00:19:09,560 Speaker 1: didn't acknowledge Whitney in anyway. That's low man, that's I'm 394 00:19:09,640 --> 00:19:12,840 Speaker 1: on Whitney side on this one, because again, Whitney Houston 395 00:19:13,119 --> 00:19:16,680 Speaker 1: huge star, Mariah Carey, very promising star at this point, 396 00:19:16,760 --> 00:19:19,480 Speaker 1: but she's not yet Mariah Carey. She has not yet 397 00:19:19,480 --> 00:19:22,840 Speaker 1: earned the right to like blow off with If this 398 00:19:22,880 --> 00:19:26,280 Speaker 1: was like Mariah Carey in seven ninety eight, maybe it's 399 00:19:26,280 --> 00:19:28,280 Speaker 1: a different story, but it's like she's still pretty young 400 00:19:28,320 --> 00:19:31,679 Speaker 1: at this point. But like I guess years later, it 401 00:19:31,760 --> 00:19:33,560 Speaker 1: was at a tribute, I guess for Whitney Houston. Was 402 00:19:33,560 --> 00:19:35,280 Speaker 1: it at the Grammy Awards. I think it was the 403 00:19:35,320 --> 00:19:37,879 Speaker 1: BT Awards. The b T words that Mariah Carrey talked 404 00:19:37,880 --> 00:19:40,320 Speaker 1: about this night as being the first night that she 405 00:19:40,400 --> 00:19:43,359 Speaker 1: met Whitney Houston, no reference to blowing her off. She 406 00:19:43,440 --> 00:19:44,639 Speaker 1: kind of made it sound like it was like a 407 00:19:44,680 --> 00:19:47,560 Speaker 1: great meeting that they had, right. I mean, I love 408 00:19:47,600 --> 00:19:50,760 Speaker 1: how after this went down, Whitney supposedly said the jersey 409 00:19:50,840 --> 00:19:53,880 Speaker 1: inside of me said grab her hair, just like very 410 00:19:53,960 --> 00:19:56,359 Speaker 1: value of the dolls. Mariah didn't bring that up in 411 00:19:56,400 --> 00:19:58,880 Speaker 1: the pet tribute. She didn't say I blew her off 412 00:19:58,920 --> 00:20:00,639 Speaker 1: and then she wanted to calm my hair out. I 413 00:20:00,720 --> 00:20:03,040 Speaker 1: think it was very much like we met and it 414 00:20:03,119 --> 00:20:05,359 Speaker 1: was a wonderful experience. And you know, which is like 415 00:20:05,400 --> 00:20:07,760 Speaker 1: the revisionist history. I guess that gets written all the 416 00:20:07,800 --> 00:20:10,320 Speaker 1: time in these in these sorts of instances. But yeah, 417 00:20:10,359 --> 00:20:13,840 Speaker 1: I feel like Mariah, don't blow her off. But maybe 418 00:20:13,920 --> 00:20:15,879 Speaker 1: she was mad about that interview though. You know, maybe 419 00:20:15,880 --> 00:20:18,040 Speaker 1: she saw she heard about that and she's like, oh, okay, 420 00:20:18,040 --> 00:20:21,040 Speaker 1: we're enemies right now. Maybe she wasn'timidated by her. Yeah, 421 00:20:21,200 --> 00:20:23,720 Speaker 1: you know, I mean, yeah, the whole old about Eve 422 00:20:23,840 --> 00:20:26,240 Speaker 1: thing between these two is is really interesting too, like 423 00:20:26,320 --> 00:20:29,040 Speaker 1: kind of the slightly older It's funny to me that Whitney. 424 00:20:29,040 --> 00:20:31,440 Speaker 1: He is, I think six years older than than Maria, 425 00:20:31,880 --> 00:20:34,399 Speaker 1: but to me that it feels like a different generation. 426 00:20:34,440 --> 00:20:35,720 Speaker 1: And I don't know if it was just the time 427 00:20:35,720 --> 00:20:37,679 Speaker 1: that I was born in. By the time that I 428 00:20:37,720 --> 00:20:41,439 Speaker 1: was aware of music, Whitney was mostly doing movies and 429 00:20:42,000 --> 00:20:45,320 Speaker 1: wasn't really as active a recording artists. And meanwhile, Mariah, 430 00:20:45,359 --> 00:20:48,160 Speaker 1: you know, on the nineties at least the late nineties. Uh. 431 00:20:48,320 --> 00:20:52,680 Speaker 1: It's funny to me how different they feel just generation generationally. Yeah, 432 00:20:52,680 --> 00:20:54,960 Speaker 1: I mean, I think six years is a huge gap 433 00:20:55,040 --> 00:20:57,560 Speaker 1: in pop music, and I think you're right, they were 434 00:20:57,600 --> 00:21:01,159 Speaker 1: different generations. I think like when they're big debut albums 435 00:21:01,240 --> 00:21:04,520 Speaker 1: came out is crucial, because you know, Whitney's debut comes 436 00:21:04,520 --> 00:21:08,040 Speaker 1: out in five and her early career, I mean, she 437 00:21:08,080 --> 00:21:10,359 Speaker 1: just seems like quintessentially eighties to me, even though she 438 00:21:10,440 --> 00:21:13,359 Speaker 1: had hits another decades and of course she's about to 439 00:21:13,600 --> 00:21:16,520 Speaker 1: have the Bodyguard soundtrack in the timeline that we're in 440 00:21:16,640 --> 00:21:18,600 Speaker 1: right now, but I still think of her first and 441 00:21:18,600 --> 00:21:22,080 Speaker 1: foremost as eighties, whereas like Mariah Carey, her debut comes 442 00:21:22,080 --> 00:21:24,399 Speaker 1: out in ninety and it's like, Okay, this is the 443 00:21:24,480 --> 00:21:26,919 Speaker 1: beginning of a new decade. This is gonna be the 444 00:21:26,920 --> 00:21:30,800 Speaker 1: Mariah Carey decade now, so I feel like that's true. 445 00:21:31,040 --> 00:21:33,560 Speaker 1: But yeah, there was this I think window of time 446 00:21:33,600 --> 00:21:36,119 Speaker 1: in the early nineties where they did seem like they 447 00:21:36,119 --> 00:21:39,280 Speaker 1: were competing head to head, because you know, Mariah Carey 448 00:21:39,320 --> 00:21:41,359 Speaker 1: is getting her career started. She puts out the first 449 00:21:41,400 --> 00:21:45,399 Speaker 1: record in ninety her record Emotions comes out in and 450 00:21:45,400 --> 00:21:48,800 Speaker 1: then of course Whitney has the Bodyguard soundtrack in ninety two, 451 00:21:48,840 --> 00:21:50,959 Speaker 1: which is like, really like the peak of her career. 452 00:21:51,119 --> 00:21:53,000 Speaker 1: All right hand, We'll be right back with more rivals 453 00:22:03,359 --> 00:22:06,280 Speaker 1: by The Bodyguard. Not a great film. I think it 454 00:22:06,320 --> 00:22:10,040 Speaker 1: received something like seven nominations at the Razzy Awards for 455 00:22:10,119 --> 00:22:13,439 Speaker 1: Worst Picture and Worst Actress. Rotten Tomatoes has given it. 456 00:22:14,520 --> 00:22:17,320 Speaker 1: But that's okay because Whitney and Clive Davis teamed up 457 00:22:17,320 --> 00:22:20,160 Speaker 1: for the soundtrack. She was just gonna sing six songs, 458 00:22:20,240 --> 00:22:21,600 Speaker 1: and one of them was supposed to be a cover 459 00:22:21,640 --> 00:22:24,159 Speaker 1: of the old Jimmy Ruffin song What Becomes the Broken Hearted? 460 00:22:24,240 --> 00:22:27,200 Speaker 1: But uh, Fried Green Tomatoes had just used it. So 461 00:22:27,600 --> 00:22:30,879 Speaker 1: Kevin Costner, of all people, suggests that she records an 462 00:22:30,880 --> 00:22:33,879 Speaker 1: old Dolly Parton tune I Will Always Love You. Kevin 463 00:22:33,880 --> 00:22:37,399 Speaker 1: Costner that's his idea in our job, he should have 464 00:22:37,400 --> 00:22:40,360 Speaker 1: been working for a record label. It's amazing. I had 465 00:22:40,400 --> 00:22:42,720 Speaker 1: no idea he was behind. You know what was at 466 00:22:42,760 --> 00:22:45,359 Speaker 1: one point the longest running number one in uh in 467 00:22:45,480 --> 00:22:48,359 Speaker 1: Billboard Hot one history. It was fourteen weeks at number one, 468 00:22:48,440 --> 00:22:50,880 Speaker 1: tied with Boys Two Men's A'll Make Love to You 469 00:22:51,240 --> 00:22:53,840 Speaker 1: and the Macarena three way tie for the longest number 470 00:22:53,840 --> 00:22:56,960 Speaker 1: one ever. And it's like not like necessarily a song 471 00:22:57,040 --> 00:22:59,879 Speaker 1: that you would pick as like a monster hits. So 472 00:23:00,160 --> 00:23:02,879 Speaker 1: I mean, I know that it was controversial a little 473 00:23:02,880 --> 00:23:06,120 Speaker 1: bit with radio programmers because it's like an acapella performance 474 00:23:06,160 --> 00:23:08,399 Speaker 1: for like the first what like thirty seconds or so 475 00:23:08,520 --> 00:23:11,679 Speaker 1: thirty like thirty or forty five seconds is just Whitney singing. 476 00:23:12,200 --> 00:23:16,120 Speaker 1: So obviously that's not typical for a radio hit. Um. 477 00:23:16,200 --> 00:23:19,560 Speaker 1: And it's also like pretty long, I think, Um, you know, 478 00:23:19,560 --> 00:23:22,760 Speaker 1: it's not just like a prototypical like three minute pop song. 479 00:23:23,280 --> 00:23:25,840 Speaker 1: But yeah, it was just one of those songs again, 480 00:23:25,880 --> 00:23:28,359 Speaker 1: I think because I mean, it's a wonderful song of 481 00:23:28,400 --> 00:23:30,520 Speaker 1: course that Dolly Parton wrote, but like it is such 482 00:23:30,520 --> 00:23:34,760 Speaker 1: a great showcase for Whitney Houston's voice, like the big 483 00:23:34,800 --> 00:23:37,000 Speaker 1: note that she hits at the end, you know, like 484 00:23:37,000 --> 00:23:39,120 Speaker 1: where she you know, the I Will Always Love You part. 485 00:23:39,560 --> 00:23:41,480 Speaker 1: It's like I'm thinking about it right now and I'm 486 00:23:41,480 --> 00:23:45,200 Speaker 1: getting chills just thinking about It's like such a powerful performance. 487 00:23:45,840 --> 00:23:49,120 Speaker 1: And um, just the Mortal Love song. I mean, I mean, 488 00:23:49,119 --> 00:23:51,440 Speaker 1: the Dolly Pardon version is so great, and there's other 489 00:23:51,480 --> 00:23:54,800 Speaker 1: great covers of that, but like Whitney Houston like owns 490 00:23:55,040 --> 00:23:57,800 Speaker 1: that song now. More than just the song, You've got 491 00:23:57,880 --> 00:23:59,920 Speaker 1: the entire soundtrack, which I mean we could do in 492 00:24:00,040 --> 00:24:02,480 Speaker 1: tire show. Just on the stats of the soundtrack, it 493 00:24:02,640 --> 00:24:05,040 Speaker 1: is the best selling soundtrack of all time, as well 494 00:24:05,080 --> 00:24:07,399 Speaker 1: as the best selling album by a female artist of 495 00:24:07,440 --> 00:24:11,080 Speaker 1: all time, with I Think million copies worldwide, fifth best 496 00:24:11,119 --> 00:24:14,160 Speaker 1: selling album in the world. I Think it went eighteen 497 00:24:14,200 --> 00:24:16,960 Speaker 1: times platinum in the United States. First album with the 498 00:24:16,960 --> 00:24:19,439 Speaker 1: sound scanned arrative sold more than a million units in 499 00:24:19,440 --> 00:24:21,960 Speaker 1: a one week period. It's broke Guns and Roses record 500 00:24:22,000 --> 00:24:24,880 Speaker 1: for User Illusion Album of the Year at the Grammys. 501 00:24:24,960 --> 00:24:27,280 Speaker 1: I mean, it's just this album is a big deal. 502 00:24:27,320 --> 00:24:30,320 Speaker 1: I cannot emphasize that enough. Yeah, it's an enormous hit. 503 00:24:30,480 --> 00:24:34,320 Speaker 1: Like Whitney again, She's She's already become Queen of America 504 00:24:34,440 --> 00:24:36,920 Speaker 1: because of the national anthem. Now she's like the queen 505 00:24:36,960 --> 00:24:40,280 Speaker 1: of pop music because of the Bodyguards soundtrack. But you 506 00:24:40,320 --> 00:24:43,359 Speaker 1: still have Mariah Carey coming up at her heels, and 507 00:24:43,400 --> 00:24:47,479 Speaker 1: Mariah Carey is ramping up, like you could say, Whitney 508 00:24:47,480 --> 00:24:50,399 Speaker 1: Houston's I think peaking at this point, but Mariah is 509 00:24:50,480 --> 00:24:53,160 Speaker 1: ramping up in a big time way, and she ends 510 00:24:53,240 --> 00:24:56,720 Speaker 1: up having a song that's an even bigger hit somehow 511 00:24:56,760 --> 00:24:58,560 Speaker 1: than I Will Always Love You, which is that song 512 00:24:59,400 --> 00:25:02,359 Speaker 1: once we her collaboration with Boys to Man. It came 513 00:25:02,359 --> 00:25:05,760 Speaker 1: out in ninety five. That was number one for sixteen weeks, 514 00:25:06,280 --> 00:25:09,159 Speaker 1: which is amazing. I feel like that was also like 515 00:25:09,240 --> 00:25:11,840 Speaker 1: the Boys to Men element, because apparently in the nineties 516 00:25:12,119 --> 00:25:16,840 Speaker 1: people could not get enough of like funeral paste boys 517 00:25:16,880 --> 00:25:19,720 Speaker 1: to Men songs like Boys to Men, like love ballads 518 00:25:19,840 --> 00:25:22,480 Speaker 1: that were like what like fifty beats per minute or 519 00:25:22,480 --> 00:25:25,879 Speaker 1: something like just super slow, you know, just like Dirge 520 00:25:25,960 --> 00:25:28,399 Speaker 1: is almost from Boys to Men. I don't get it. 521 00:25:28,640 --> 00:25:30,040 Speaker 1: I don't get it either. I mean, like, there's a 522 00:25:30,080 --> 00:25:32,400 Speaker 1: lot of Mariah carry songs that I enjoy, but like, yeah, 523 00:25:32,440 --> 00:25:34,639 Speaker 1: One Sweet Day, I just feel like it's a pretty 524 00:25:34,720 --> 00:25:39,040 Speaker 1: boring song. It hit the song yeah, it's not that great, 525 00:25:39,160 --> 00:25:41,960 Speaker 1: but it was number one for like four months, like 526 00:25:42,240 --> 00:25:46,119 Speaker 1: one third of the year. In again, like people just 527 00:25:46,200 --> 00:25:49,840 Speaker 1: loved people in ninety five. They hated rhythm, they hated 528 00:25:50,160 --> 00:25:53,920 Speaker 1: fast paced songs. They just wanted like dirgy love ballads 529 00:25:54,480 --> 00:25:57,600 Speaker 1: from Boys to Men and or Mariah Carey, and they 530 00:25:57,640 --> 00:26:00,800 Speaker 1: delivered and this song was enormous, and uh yeah, it's 531 00:26:00,920 --> 00:26:03,160 Speaker 1: I feel like in terms of just like the cultural 532 00:26:03,200 --> 00:26:05,199 Speaker 1: impact when we look back, I mean, I think I 533 00:26:05,240 --> 00:26:08,000 Speaker 1: Will Always Love You has transcended the era. I mean 534 00:26:08,119 --> 00:26:10,440 Speaker 1: people know that song now, I feel like, and they 535 00:26:10,560 --> 00:26:13,440 Speaker 1: still love it because once week they have the same status. 536 00:26:13,520 --> 00:26:15,960 Speaker 1: I don't know, I mean maybe it does. I never 537 00:26:16,080 --> 00:26:18,880 Speaker 1: understood it. I don't like the song. I just think 538 00:26:19,080 --> 00:26:21,800 Speaker 1: there's no hook. I think it's just a dirge. I 539 00:26:21,840 --> 00:26:23,800 Speaker 1: know it's been kind of like, you know, embraced the 540 00:26:23,880 --> 00:26:26,360 Speaker 1: sort of a song for remembrance for like people who 541 00:26:26,600 --> 00:26:29,080 Speaker 1: have died. I think it was inspired by the age 542 00:26:29,080 --> 00:26:32,080 Speaker 1: related death of David Cole from C and C Music Factory. 543 00:26:32,760 --> 00:26:35,080 Speaker 1: So I appreciate that kind of like Candle in the 544 00:26:35,080 --> 00:26:37,359 Speaker 1: Win nine element of it where it's sort of like 545 00:26:37,480 --> 00:26:40,320 Speaker 1: goes hand in hand with a tragedy but the song itself, 546 00:26:40,359 --> 00:26:43,240 Speaker 1: I just I never I just find it really forgettable 547 00:26:43,359 --> 00:26:45,320 Speaker 1: in a way that I just think it is unusual 548 00:26:45,440 --> 00:26:48,520 Speaker 1: too for songs that have reached that kind of chart success, 549 00:26:48,560 --> 00:26:52,600 Speaker 1: Like if you said Fantasy was number one for sixteen weeks, Like, 550 00:26:52,640 --> 00:26:55,400 Speaker 1: oh yeah, of course, that's got an amazing hook. It's 551 00:26:55,440 --> 00:26:59,040 Speaker 1: just incredible pop. I just yeah, I never really understood it, 552 00:26:59,080 --> 00:27:02,560 Speaker 1: but her records did until two th seventeen, when it 553 00:27:02,640 --> 00:27:05,760 Speaker 1: was tied with Desposito for sixteen weeks, and then Little 554 00:27:05,800 --> 00:27:08,359 Speaker 1: las X finally broke Mariah's record in two as a 555 00:27:08,440 --> 00:27:11,000 Speaker 1: nine team with Old Town Road. But for for twenty 556 00:27:11,080 --> 00:27:14,480 Speaker 1: years this record stood. And they asked Whitney Houston about 557 00:27:14,480 --> 00:27:16,640 Speaker 1: this song too, I remember, like in the mid nineties, 558 00:27:16,640 --> 00:27:19,760 Speaker 1: and like her response is pretty funny, like did you 559 00:27:19,800 --> 00:27:21,919 Speaker 1: see this? Like I think her quote is like they 560 00:27:21,920 --> 00:27:23,160 Speaker 1: asked her, like, oh, what do you think of this song? 561 00:27:23,200 --> 00:27:25,280 Speaker 1: Because again, like she had this enormous hit which I 562 00:27:25,320 --> 00:27:27,760 Speaker 1: Will Always Love You. And then Mariah Carey comes along 563 00:27:28,040 --> 00:27:31,120 Speaker 1: a couple of years later and has a song once 564 00:27:31,160 --> 00:27:33,040 Speaker 1: We Day that's on the top of the charts a 565 00:27:33,080 --> 00:27:36,040 Speaker 1: couple of weeks longer, and Whitney Houston just says, maybe 566 00:27:36,080 --> 00:27:37,760 Speaker 1: it's not what I think of it, it's what she 567 00:27:37,880 --> 00:27:43,040 Speaker 1: thinks it's more important. So again, like what, like what 568 00:27:43,080 --> 00:27:46,680 Speaker 1: does that even mean? Like, I know it's very that's 569 00:27:46,720 --> 00:27:49,240 Speaker 1: like a like a fortune cookie message that we like 570 00:27:49,359 --> 00:27:52,520 Speaker 1: look at And I don't understand this. Once we day 571 00:27:52,560 --> 00:27:55,800 Speaker 1: booted Exhale Shoot Shoot from the top spot Whitney's song too, 572 00:27:55,880 --> 00:27:58,280 Speaker 1: So I mean there's an extra element of like, you know, 573 00:27:58,359 --> 00:28:00,280 Speaker 1: getting run off the road. Not only is when these 574 00:28:00,520 --> 00:28:03,760 Speaker 1: record topped, but her own song gets kicked off off 575 00:28:03,800 --> 00:28:07,159 Speaker 1: the number one spot. So there's the simmering tensions that 576 00:28:07,200 --> 00:28:09,560 Speaker 1: are going on there. You know, they're battling on the 577 00:28:09,640 --> 00:28:13,280 Speaker 1: charts for supremacy. But then there's a scheme cooked up 578 00:28:13,560 --> 00:28:15,680 Speaker 1: I guess a ninety eight or so to get these 579 00:28:15,680 --> 00:28:19,760 Speaker 1: two together for something known as the Prince of Egypt soundtrack. 580 00:28:19,840 --> 00:28:21,880 Speaker 1: Now I have to say that like this, by this time, 581 00:28:21,880 --> 00:28:24,800 Speaker 1: I was in college, so I was not following the 582 00:28:24,880 --> 00:28:27,879 Speaker 1: latest Disney product. So I have no memories of the 583 00:28:27,920 --> 00:28:30,879 Speaker 1: Prince of Egypt. I don't even remember this song at all. Like, 584 00:28:31,000 --> 00:28:33,040 Speaker 1: do you have any memories of of this? Was this 585 00:28:33,119 --> 00:28:35,119 Speaker 1: important to you as as a young I guess you 586 00:28:35,119 --> 00:28:36,720 Speaker 1: would have been like ten years old. I would have 587 00:28:36,720 --> 00:28:39,120 Speaker 1: been ten. This would have been prime you know, my 588 00:28:39,120 --> 00:28:42,959 Speaker 1: my demo. I have zero recollection of that. I remember 589 00:28:43,000 --> 00:28:47,040 Speaker 1: seeing previews for it and thinking, you know, I guess 590 00:28:47,040 --> 00:28:49,479 Speaker 1: like animated biblical story was kind of what they were 591 00:28:49,480 --> 00:28:51,360 Speaker 1: going for for something that could be like, you know, 592 00:28:52,080 --> 00:28:56,520 Speaker 1: trotted out every I don't know. It wasn't No, it 593 00:28:56,600 --> 00:28:58,960 Speaker 1: was not the Lion King. I was Jeffrey Katzenberg, I think, 594 00:28:59,000 --> 00:29:02,080 Speaker 1: trying to probably top The Wine King with like doing 595 00:29:02,080 --> 00:29:05,680 Speaker 1: this sort of movie of biblical proportions. And I never 596 00:29:05,720 --> 00:29:07,480 Speaker 1: heard a single thing about it. I don't know, I've 597 00:29:07,560 --> 00:29:09,320 Speaker 1: never seen it. I don't know anyone I know who's 598 00:29:09,320 --> 00:29:13,200 Speaker 1: ever even spoken about it except for this duet exactly. 599 00:29:13,200 --> 00:29:15,920 Speaker 1: And I think the idea again was the public knows 600 00:29:15,960 --> 00:29:18,840 Speaker 1: that these two are competing with each other, they may 601 00:29:18,880 --> 00:29:20,880 Speaker 1: not like each other all that much, but hey, let's 602 00:29:20,880 --> 00:29:23,640 Speaker 1: put them together on this song and marketed to children, 603 00:29:23,880 --> 00:29:27,720 Speaker 1: you know, so because children love pop star feuds and 604 00:29:28,040 --> 00:29:29,840 Speaker 1: don't love it. I mean, right, wasn't that the idea 605 00:29:29,880 --> 00:29:31,800 Speaker 1: of the song. And again I don't remember the song 606 00:29:31,800 --> 00:29:34,040 Speaker 1: at all, but it was called when You Believe. Yeah, 607 00:29:34,280 --> 00:29:36,680 Speaker 1: it was basically like you know, meaningful and that very 608 00:29:36,760 --> 00:29:38,720 Speaker 1: nineties way where you just kind of like any song 609 00:29:38,800 --> 00:29:41,080 Speaker 1: that talks about hope and open mindedness is just like 610 00:29:41,160 --> 00:29:43,960 Speaker 1: deemed progressive because it was supposed to be this like 611 00:29:44,080 --> 00:29:47,920 Speaker 1: message song, but the message was basically just believe, which 612 00:29:48,520 --> 00:29:51,480 Speaker 1: I don't know. Mariah was all on board. Apparently the 613 00:29:51,480 --> 00:29:53,040 Speaker 1: first thing she said when she was told about this 614 00:29:53,080 --> 00:29:55,920 Speaker 1: idea was did Whitney say it was cool? So I guess, 615 00:29:55,960 --> 00:29:58,800 Speaker 1: you know, at least she she was showing appropriate reverence 616 00:29:58,840 --> 00:30:02,880 Speaker 1: to h a queen Whitney, But yeah, I never The 617 00:30:03,000 --> 00:30:07,719 Speaker 1: song did not live up to anybody's expectations, both commercially 618 00:30:07,720 --> 00:30:11,200 Speaker 1: for their independent commercial you know, successes, and also with 619 00:30:11,240 --> 00:30:14,720 Speaker 1: all the drama between the two. Apparently they went on 620 00:30:14,760 --> 00:30:18,200 Speaker 1: this basically this good will pr tour, they went on Oprah, 621 00:30:18,200 --> 00:30:21,200 Speaker 1: and Whitney would say like, oh, yeah, we got along 622 00:30:21,280 --> 00:30:24,200 Speaker 1: just like girlfriends and it was great. But I will 623 00:30:24,240 --> 00:30:26,840 Speaker 1: say um. Whitney was asked about the first time that 624 00:30:26,880 --> 00:30:29,720 Speaker 1: they they she met Maria like for this project, and 625 00:30:30,080 --> 00:30:32,320 Speaker 1: he says, oh, yeah, well, Mariah, we couldn't really talk 626 00:30:32,400 --> 00:30:34,280 Speaker 1: much because Mariah was having a little bit of vocal 627 00:30:34,280 --> 00:30:37,680 Speaker 1: trouble that day, a little bit which I just thought, 628 00:30:38,200 --> 00:30:40,640 Speaker 1: why why do you bring that up on on Oprah, 629 00:30:40,800 --> 00:30:42,840 Speaker 1: Like like no, just say yeah, it was great, Like 630 00:30:43,040 --> 00:30:45,360 Speaker 1: you don't you don't have to. I always thought that 631 00:30:45,400 --> 00:30:48,400 Speaker 1: was like kind of a dig. Oh, it's definitely a dig. Definitely, 632 00:30:48,440 --> 00:30:50,760 Speaker 1: And I think, you know, there was this idea, like 633 00:30:50,800 --> 00:30:52,880 Speaker 1: you said, they were going on this pr tour to 634 00:30:52,960 --> 00:30:55,600 Speaker 1: promote the film and also to show that yeah, yeah, 635 00:30:55,600 --> 00:30:57,520 Speaker 1: we're like girlfriends, we love each other, but there was 636 00:30:57,560 --> 00:31:01,040 Speaker 1: also this sort of winking acknowledge meant that maybe there 637 00:31:01,080 --> 00:31:03,760 Speaker 1: was you know, hostility under the surface. Like there was 638 00:31:03,760 --> 00:31:07,960 Speaker 1: that appearance that they were on Video Music Awards, and 639 00:31:08,000 --> 00:31:10,200 Speaker 1: I do remember this like where they had this bit 640 00:31:10,200 --> 00:31:11,880 Speaker 1: where they were on stage together and they were like 641 00:31:11,920 --> 00:31:15,400 Speaker 1: wearing the same dress and it was like, oh, we're 642 00:31:15,440 --> 00:31:18,320 Speaker 1: we're feuding because we're in the same dress. And it 643 00:31:18,440 --> 00:31:21,440 Speaker 1: was like kind of again like playing up this idea 644 00:31:21,560 --> 00:31:24,640 Speaker 1: that they don't really like each other. And uh, I 645 00:31:24,680 --> 00:31:26,800 Speaker 1: think the idea with those types of things as always 646 00:31:26,840 --> 00:31:29,280 Speaker 1: to say like, ha ha, we're joking about this, like 647 00:31:29,320 --> 00:31:31,280 Speaker 1: we actually do like each other because we're just kidding, 648 00:31:31,600 --> 00:31:33,720 Speaker 1: when in fact, you know, if they did ever show 649 00:31:33,800 --> 00:31:35,680 Speaker 1: up for real at a place with the same dress on. 650 00:31:35,800 --> 00:31:38,880 Speaker 1: I think that there would be like, you know, knives drawn, 651 00:31:39,440 --> 00:31:42,040 Speaker 1: and uh, it wouldn't end well, I think. But yeah, 652 00:31:42,080 --> 00:31:45,240 Speaker 1: the song itself, um, you know it's a it's a 653 00:31:45,320 --> 00:31:47,440 Speaker 1: letdown because you think, again, these are two of the 654 00:31:47,440 --> 00:31:51,200 Speaker 1: great pop singers ever to powerhouse singers, They're really going 655 00:31:51,240 --> 00:31:52,600 Speaker 1: to be on this song and it's going to be 656 00:31:52,680 --> 00:31:55,160 Speaker 1: like a Clash of the Titans type situation, and it 657 00:31:55,240 --> 00:31:57,920 Speaker 1: just ends up being this sort of cheeseball song on 658 00:31:58,000 --> 00:32:01,920 Speaker 1: a you know second or to your Disney film. Uh. 659 00:32:02,080 --> 00:32:04,120 Speaker 1: The music critic David Brown, who we've talked a lot 660 00:32:04,160 --> 00:32:06,320 Speaker 1: of about it in this show. He's written many great books. 661 00:32:06,400 --> 00:32:08,600 Speaker 1: I think he wrote a line about this record where 662 00:32:08,600 --> 00:32:11,280 Speaker 1: he said that this song has so much sap maple 663 00:32:11,320 --> 00:32:16,160 Speaker 1: trees will be jealous, which I think that review says 664 00:32:16,160 --> 00:32:18,400 Speaker 1: it all like it really is just like a sappy 665 00:32:18,520 --> 00:32:21,320 Speaker 1: kind of crappy song and um in a way to 666 00:32:21,440 --> 00:32:23,880 Speaker 1: like I feel like with Mariah Carey, you know, I 667 00:32:23,880 --> 00:32:27,479 Speaker 1: feel like she had established this, uh this thing on 668 00:32:27,480 --> 00:32:29,480 Speaker 1: her own where she could be like this great kind 669 00:32:29,480 --> 00:32:31,520 Speaker 1: of R and B singer. I think, especially like you 670 00:32:31,720 --> 00:32:33,360 Speaker 1: not so much on songs like Once week Day, but 671 00:32:33,400 --> 00:32:35,640 Speaker 1: you think of a song like Daydream, for instance, which 672 00:32:35,680 --> 00:32:38,760 Speaker 1: is like such a great track that has aged so well. 673 00:32:39,240 --> 00:32:41,560 Speaker 1: The more sort of upbeat kind of R and B 674 00:32:41,720 --> 00:32:43,880 Speaker 1: dance jams that she could do, I think she really 675 00:32:43,920 --> 00:32:47,240 Speaker 1: shined on those songs. Yeah, I mean, it just still 676 00:32:47,240 --> 00:32:49,280 Speaker 1: blows my mind that that kind of star power. I 677 00:32:49,280 --> 00:32:52,760 Speaker 1: got to number fifteen, which you know, no one expected 678 00:32:53,040 --> 00:32:57,040 Speaker 1: at all. And I love how when Mariah was assembling 679 00:32:57,080 --> 00:32:59,880 Speaker 1: her first Greatest Hits compilation called Number One, which was 680 00:33:00,040 --> 00:33:01,800 Speaker 1: just a collection for number ones, and you've had as 681 00:33:01,800 --> 00:33:03,880 Speaker 1: many as as Maria Carrey can, you can fill out 682 00:33:03,880 --> 00:33:06,680 Speaker 1: a whole album she included When You Believe, despite the 683 00:33:06,680 --> 00:33:08,800 Speaker 1: fact that they didn't even crack the top ten, because 684 00:33:08,800 --> 00:33:10,479 Speaker 1: you thought it was a miracle that she and Houston 685 00:33:10,520 --> 00:33:13,440 Speaker 1: were collaborating together. I almost wonder if that record which 686 00:33:13,720 --> 00:33:16,040 Speaker 1: came out, I think around the same time that when 687 00:33:16,040 --> 00:33:18,480 Speaker 1: You Believe it was released, and they just assumed it 688 00:33:18,520 --> 00:33:20,600 Speaker 1: was going to go to number one, Oh yeah, why 689 00:33:20,600 --> 00:33:23,280 Speaker 1: wouldn't you and just stuck it on there anyway. Yeah, 690 00:33:23,320 --> 00:33:25,240 Speaker 1: and they just like and they're like, oh shit, well wait, 691 00:33:25,320 --> 00:33:29,440 Speaker 1: it's not man. It's like yeah, well, and Maria Carey 692 00:33:29,480 --> 00:33:31,160 Speaker 1: is not going to put a record called you know 693 00:33:31,280 --> 00:33:34,720 Speaker 1: number fifteens. You know, there's not gonna be a fifteens 694 00:33:34,760 --> 00:33:37,040 Speaker 1: record from marian Carey, So yeah, it ended up on 695 00:33:37,080 --> 00:33:39,680 Speaker 1: that record. And that was around the time too that 696 00:33:39,760 --> 00:33:43,440 Speaker 1: like Mariah Carey started to stall a little bit. And 697 00:33:43,480 --> 00:33:45,600 Speaker 1: what I think it's fascinating about like this period two 698 00:33:45,640 --> 00:33:47,360 Speaker 1: for her, And we're gonna get into like, you know, 699 00:33:47,400 --> 00:33:49,440 Speaker 1: some of the issues that she had here in a minute, 700 00:33:49,440 --> 00:33:51,960 Speaker 1: but like this is like a tangent, I guess, but 701 00:33:52,000 --> 00:33:54,720 Speaker 1: like she had that mini feud with j Lo around 702 00:33:54,760 --> 00:33:56,960 Speaker 1: this time. I love this. This is this is such 703 00:33:57,000 --> 00:34:00,360 Speaker 1: a second tier rivalry. But and I don't think warrants 704 00:34:00,360 --> 00:34:02,240 Speaker 1: his own episode, but I love it so much. And 705 00:34:02,360 --> 00:34:04,680 Speaker 1: this is an incredible, you know, one of the most 706 00:34:04,880 --> 00:34:08,680 Speaker 1: iconic interview answers I think in history. So it blows 707 00:34:08,840 --> 00:34:10,920 Speaker 1: Mariah's you know, what do you think of Whitney thing 708 00:34:11,000 --> 00:34:13,600 Speaker 1: out of the water. I think. So she she's being interviewed. 709 00:34:13,600 --> 00:34:15,360 Speaker 1: I don't even know who's interviewing her, and um, and 710 00:34:15,440 --> 00:34:18,719 Speaker 1: the interviewer asked her about Beyonce, and Maria gives this 711 00:34:18,800 --> 00:34:22,719 Speaker 1: like really lengthy gush responds about how great Beyonce is 712 00:34:22,760 --> 00:34:24,399 Speaker 1: and want of talent and this and that how nice 713 00:34:24,400 --> 00:34:26,319 Speaker 1: a human being she has, goes on and on and on, 714 00:34:26,680 --> 00:34:28,400 Speaker 1: and then the interviewer says, well, Okay, what do you 715 00:34:28,440 --> 00:34:33,000 Speaker 1: think of Jennifer Lopez and Mariah just frozen smile. I 716 00:34:33,040 --> 00:34:37,840 Speaker 1: don't know her Nope, nope, and then just like looking 717 00:34:37,920 --> 00:34:40,600 Speaker 1: daggers with her eyes, but her smile is like huge 718 00:34:40,640 --> 00:34:44,239 Speaker 1: in the interviewer just goes up, Okay, it's great, incredible, yeah, 719 00:34:44,239 --> 00:34:45,680 Speaker 1: and like the idea a gain. I think she said 720 00:34:45,719 --> 00:34:47,279 Speaker 1: this later that she's like, I really was trying to 721 00:34:47,360 --> 00:34:50,080 Speaker 1: say something nice or say nothing at all, Like so 722 00:34:50,760 --> 00:34:53,640 Speaker 1: I got in the application to Mariah. That doesn't help. 723 00:34:53,920 --> 00:34:57,000 Speaker 1: And it's an interesting contrast with this Whitney Houston thing 724 00:34:57,040 --> 00:34:59,880 Speaker 1: because I think with her, with Maria Kerry Whitney he 725 00:35:00,080 --> 00:35:03,920 Speaker 1: then there was I think some tension there. But I wonder, 726 00:35:04,000 --> 00:35:05,719 Speaker 1: like on Mariah carry side, if it was just sort 727 00:35:05,719 --> 00:35:09,120 Speaker 1: of awkwardness in a way, because she probably felt like, Okay, 728 00:35:09,160 --> 00:35:13,120 Speaker 1: Whitney Houston probably feels a little threatened by me. You know, 729 00:35:13,360 --> 00:35:15,880 Speaker 1: I don't know how she feels about me, and like therefore, 730 00:35:16,000 --> 00:35:17,840 Speaker 1: I'm not really sure how to act around her. But 731 00:35:17,880 --> 00:35:21,120 Speaker 1: I still respect her, you know, and I don't necessarily 732 00:35:21,200 --> 00:35:24,520 Speaker 1: dislike her, you know, because she didn't slag off Whitney 733 00:35:24,520 --> 00:35:26,759 Speaker 1: Houston really ever that I'm aware of. You know, she 734 00:35:26,800 --> 00:35:28,680 Speaker 1: never like she kind of blew her off a couple 735 00:35:28,719 --> 00:35:31,319 Speaker 1: of times, but she never like did something like this 736 00:35:31,600 --> 00:35:35,320 Speaker 1: like where you know, she's like supposedly trying at to 737 00:35:35,360 --> 00:35:37,600 Speaker 1: say anything mean, but like by not saying anything at all, 738 00:35:37,640 --> 00:35:41,359 Speaker 1: you're actually saying everything you need to say. But yeah, 739 00:35:41,520 --> 00:35:44,000 Speaker 1: it's funny because like that interview clip ends up being 740 00:35:44,040 --> 00:35:47,520 Speaker 1: I think, pretty iconic. I still see that memed every 741 00:35:47,560 --> 00:35:49,600 Speaker 1: now and then on the internet, and it kind of 742 00:35:49,640 --> 00:35:52,560 Speaker 1: continues like for a while, Like I know that there 743 00:35:52,600 --> 00:35:54,840 Speaker 1: was this thing later on, like when someone asked Jennifer 744 00:35:54,880 --> 00:35:57,520 Speaker 1: Lopez about it and she said, you know, oh, Mariah 745 00:35:57,520 --> 00:36:03,120 Speaker 1: Carey is forgetful. We've met many times. Uh. And then 746 00:36:03,320 --> 00:36:05,879 Speaker 1: Mariah was like, wait, well, you know what, Apparently I'm 747 00:36:05,920 --> 00:36:09,400 Speaker 1: forgetful because I don't remember the fact that you know, 748 00:36:09,440 --> 00:36:11,600 Speaker 1: I meet a lot of people, you know, I am 749 00:36:11,640 --> 00:36:13,440 Speaker 1: so and so like, oh, yeah, that just happens to 750 00:36:13,520 --> 00:36:16,880 Speaker 1: me all the time. But you know, yeah, I just happened, 751 00:36:18,360 --> 00:36:21,319 Speaker 1: yeah exactly. And like there was that thing like at 752 00:36:21,360 --> 00:36:25,600 Speaker 1: the Billboard Music Awards where Mariah carry was performing the 753 00:36:25,680 --> 00:36:29,279 Speaker 1: song Infinity. It didn't like j Lo like pretended like 754 00:36:29,280 --> 00:36:31,800 Speaker 1: look at her phone during the performance, like there was 755 00:36:31,880 --> 00:36:33,960 Speaker 1: some weird thing with that. Oh yeah, they're like cut 756 00:36:34,000 --> 00:36:36,200 Speaker 1: away and she's in the audience like scroll, like very 757 00:36:36,200 --> 00:36:40,040 Speaker 1: obviously scrolling through Instagram in the middle of Mariah's performance, 758 00:36:40,239 --> 00:36:41,920 Speaker 1: And then she was on the I think people don't 759 00:36:41,960 --> 00:36:44,719 Speaker 1: watch What Happens Live with Andy Cohen and he asked 760 00:36:44,760 --> 00:36:47,719 Speaker 1: about it, So no, I I watched most of the performance. 761 00:36:48,080 --> 00:36:50,279 Speaker 1: They just got away at a bad moment. And then 762 00:36:50,320 --> 00:36:54,000 Speaker 1: again like I think the year after that, in TMZ 763 00:36:54,239 --> 00:36:59,120 Speaker 1: asked Mariah Carey again about j Lo. Mariah said, again, 764 00:36:59,320 --> 00:37:02,279 Speaker 1: I still don't know her. So apparently she's still for 765 00:37:02,640 --> 00:37:05,360 Speaker 1: She's very forgetful. Maybe she should get some post it 766 00:37:05,400 --> 00:37:07,960 Speaker 1: notes or something and just write j Lo's name on 767 00:37:08,000 --> 00:37:10,600 Speaker 1: it so she can remember this at any rate. This 768 00:37:10,640 --> 00:37:13,440 Speaker 1: is a tangent movie memento, but just about meeting Jennifer 769 00:37:13,480 --> 00:37:16,359 Speaker 1: Lopez exactly, So this is a tangent anyway. I think 770 00:37:16,360 --> 00:37:19,520 Speaker 1: it's an interesting contrast with what the Whitney Houston thing 771 00:37:19,560 --> 00:37:22,959 Speaker 1: is again because I feel like when Mariah Carey really 772 00:37:22,960 --> 00:37:25,600 Speaker 1: doesn't like a diva, she makes it pretty clear. You know, 773 00:37:25,680 --> 00:37:29,240 Speaker 1: she's going to the media and uh, I mean again, 774 00:37:29,360 --> 00:37:31,440 Speaker 1: I think saying I don't know her is like the 775 00:37:31,480 --> 00:37:34,480 Speaker 1: most devastating thing that you could say about somebody. You know, 776 00:37:35,120 --> 00:37:37,040 Speaker 1: It is more devastating than if she had gone into 777 00:37:37,080 --> 00:37:40,040 Speaker 1: like some detailed critique about her singing or something. But 778 00:37:40,120 --> 00:37:42,279 Speaker 1: just like the foreword, I don't know her and the 779 00:37:42,280 --> 00:37:44,880 Speaker 1: fact that that's going to be memed forever, it's a 780 00:37:44,920 --> 00:37:48,600 Speaker 1: pretty it's amazing shade on Mariah Carry's apart one of 781 00:37:48,640 --> 00:37:51,440 Speaker 1: the funs. Yeah, I would too, I want to know that. 782 00:37:51,480 --> 00:37:53,879 Speaker 1: But anyway, let's get back to Whitney and Mariah, because 783 00:37:53,880 --> 00:37:56,200 Speaker 1: as we get into the odds, I feel like they 784 00:37:56,280 --> 00:37:59,240 Speaker 1: both go through a pretty difficult time in their careers 785 00:37:59,239 --> 00:38:01,680 Speaker 1: and in their personal lives. Oh yeah, I mean. Whitney's 786 00:38:01,719 --> 00:38:04,439 Speaker 1: career was totally signed by the sidelined by drug use 787 00:38:04,480 --> 00:38:08,040 Speaker 1: and exacerbated by her marriage to Bobby Brown and her 788 00:38:08,040 --> 00:38:10,120 Speaker 1: reputation as a sort of, you know, the squeaky clean 789 00:38:10,200 --> 00:38:12,880 Speaker 1: prom queen of soul thing had given way to a 790 00:38:12,920 --> 00:38:15,880 Speaker 1: new reputation which was less good, this sort of erratic 791 00:38:15,920 --> 00:38:20,000 Speaker 1: and unreliable addict. And she would arrive hours late to 792 00:38:20,080 --> 00:38:23,040 Speaker 1: interviews and photo shoots and would bail on concerts and 793 00:38:23,040 --> 00:38:25,399 Speaker 1: talk show appearances. And this was around the same time 794 00:38:25,440 --> 00:38:27,680 Speaker 1: of her like kind of legendary in a Bad Way 795 00:38:27,760 --> 00:38:30,600 Speaker 1: interview with Diane Sawyer, where she denied her drug use 796 00:38:30,640 --> 00:38:32,239 Speaker 1: by saying, you know, first of all, let's get one 797 00:38:32,239 --> 00:38:34,279 Speaker 1: thing straight. Crack is cheap. I make too much money 798 00:38:34,320 --> 00:38:36,560 Speaker 1: to ever smoke crack. Let's get that straight. Okay, we 799 00:38:36,560 --> 00:38:39,759 Speaker 1: don't get crack. Crack is whack. That's a that's a 800 00:38:40,600 --> 00:38:44,080 Speaker 1: unique defense of cracks, like I'm too I'm too rich 801 00:38:44,120 --> 00:38:47,279 Speaker 1: to do crack. Yes, that's pretty that's pretty tough. And 802 00:38:47,320 --> 00:38:49,440 Speaker 1: she was supposed to sing at Clive Davis's induction to 803 00:38:49,480 --> 00:38:51,440 Speaker 1: the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. She she didn't 804 00:38:51,480 --> 00:38:54,800 Speaker 1: show uh. Burt back Iraq, who was her longtime friend. 805 00:38:55,080 --> 00:38:57,960 Speaker 1: I think uh fired her from performing at the Oscars 806 00:38:58,160 --> 00:39:01,439 Speaker 1: in in two thousand. I guess during rehearsals, not only 807 00:39:01,440 --> 00:39:03,240 Speaker 1: was her voice really shaky, but she would just start 808 00:39:03,280 --> 00:39:06,160 Speaker 1: singing the totally different songs than they were supposed to 809 00:39:06,160 --> 00:39:09,120 Speaker 1: be doing. Uh. So it was it was a really 810 00:39:09,200 --> 00:39:11,560 Speaker 1: rough time for her, but she could still command these 811 00:39:11,640 --> 00:39:14,680 Speaker 1: huge fees from record labels and in um in August 812 00:39:14,719 --> 00:39:17,160 Speaker 1: two thousand one, she signed, uh I think one of 813 00:39:17,200 --> 00:39:19,360 Speaker 1: the biggest deals in music history at that point with 814 00:39:19,520 --> 00:39:23,919 Speaker 1: Ariska BMG for a hundred million dollars to deliver six 815 00:39:23,960 --> 00:39:26,719 Speaker 1: new albums over the next you know, I think it 816 00:39:26,760 --> 00:39:29,560 Speaker 1: was ten years, which sadly, I don't think she ever 817 00:39:29,800 --> 00:39:32,239 Speaker 1: delivered all six. But the first it was two thousand two, 818 00:39:32,280 --> 00:39:35,440 Speaker 1: is just Whitney and it was a disappointment on pretty 819 00:39:35,520 --> 00:39:38,239 Speaker 1: much every level commercial critical. Yeah, And you know, man, 820 00:39:38,280 --> 00:39:41,239 Speaker 1: the Whitney Houston story is so sad to me. I mean, 821 00:39:41,239 --> 00:39:44,319 Speaker 1: there's and it really just gets sadder as as we 822 00:39:44,360 --> 00:39:46,640 Speaker 1: go beyond this point, you know, leading up to her 823 00:39:46,760 --> 00:39:49,480 Speaker 1: to her untimely death. But you know, I think in 824 00:39:49,560 --> 00:39:53,320 Speaker 1: comparison to that, like the Mariah Carey story is more inspiring, 825 00:39:53,360 --> 00:39:54,680 Speaker 1: just because she was able to pull out of a 826 00:39:54,680 --> 00:39:57,400 Speaker 1: tail spin that she went into around this around the 827 00:39:57,400 --> 00:39:59,719 Speaker 1: same time, which I think is is pretty well documented. 828 00:39:59,760 --> 00:40:02,400 Speaker 1: You know, in the late nineties, she was, as we 829 00:40:02,400 --> 00:40:04,560 Speaker 1: said before, she was married to Tommy Mottola and that 830 00:40:04,600 --> 00:40:07,600 Speaker 1: marriage ended up going on the rocks. Her career at 831 00:40:07,600 --> 00:40:10,040 Speaker 1: that time was also starting to stall a little bit. 832 00:40:10,080 --> 00:40:14,000 Speaker 1: Her record Rainbow wasn't as big of a hit as 833 00:40:14,560 --> 00:40:16,560 Speaker 1: some of her previous albums, which you know, again by 834 00:40:16,560 --> 00:40:19,920 Speaker 1: Mariah carry standards. She had very high commercial standards at 835 00:40:19,920 --> 00:40:21,560 Speaker 1: that time. I think for like a lot of people, 836 00:40:21,640 --> 00:40:24,080 Speaker 1: Rainbow would have been a pretty successful record. But it 837 00:40:24,120 --> 00:40:26,760 Speaker 1: really fed into the perception that maybe she was fading 838 00:40:26,800 --> 00:40:29,040 Speaker 1: a little bit. And in her personal life, you know, 839 00:40:29,080 --> 00:40:31,680 Speaker 1: along with the failing marriage, she has to deal with 840 00:40:31,680 --> 00:40:34,759 Speaker 1: her father dying of cancer. Just a lot to deal 841 00:40:34,760 --> 00:40:36,520 Speaker 1: with at this time, and it ends up taking a 842 00:40:36,520 --> 00:40:40,040 Speaker 1: toll on her. She has this emotional and mental breakdown. 843 00:40:40,080 --> 00:40:43,600 Speaker 1: There's that famous clip of her on TRL where she 844 00:40:43,719 --> 00:40:46,920 Speaker 1: just seems incoherent. I mean, it's pretty sad, you know. 845 00:40:47,040 --> 00:40:50,560 Speaker 1: I'm sure that's on YouTube. I don't really feel like 846 00:40:50,600 --> 00:40:53,360 Speaker 1: watching that. It's kind of depressing. I think to watch 847 00:40:53,920 --> 00:40:57,000 Speaker 1: um and I feel like she really reaches her neider 848 00:40:57,560 --> 00:41:00,520 Speaker 1: with the film Glitter. Then the soundtrack to that movie. 849 00:41:00,520 --> 00:41:02,960 Speaker 1: Glitter was supposed to come out on September eleventh, two 850 00:41:03,000 --> 00:41:06,040 Speaker 1: thousand one, which is a terrible day obviously to launch 851 00:41:06,040 --> 00:41:08,239 Speaker 1: an album. Although like a lot of classic records like 852 00:41:08,320 --> 00:41:10,919 Speaker 1: came out on that day, like the Dylan record Leven 853 00:41:10,960 --> 00:41:13,400 Speaker 1: Theft came out that day. I think jay Z's the 854 00:41:13,400 --> 00:41:16,560 Speaker 1: Blueprint came out, so you know, those records did okay, 855 00:41:16,600 --> 00:41:20,120 Speaker 1: but Glitter did not. And uh, yeah, the film itself, 856 00:41:20,160 --> 00:41:23,799 Speaker 1: I think is just this like disaster essentially that uh 857 00:41:24,680 --> 00:41:26,960 Speaker 1: has ended up I think having a good reputation just 858 00:41:27,000 --> 00:41:30,200 Speaker 1: because everything is so wrong that it ends up just 859 00:41:30,239 --> 00:41:33,520 Speaker 1: being this like camp masterpiece, you know, like people uh 860 00:41:33,920 --> 00:41:36,200 Speaker 1: like a value of the dolls or like a show 861 00:41:36,200 --> 00:41:39,680 Speaker 1: Girls type movie. So I think like revisionist history has 862 00:41:39,719 --> 00:41:43,000 Speaker 1: been kind to Glitter in retrospect, but in the moment, 863 00:41:43,040 --> 00:41:46,000 Speaker 1: it just seemed like, oh, this is the end of 864 00:41:46,080 --> 00:41:48,080 Speaker 1: Mariah Carey's career. She's never going to be able to 865 00:41:48,080 --> 00:41:50,200 Speaker 1: recover from this. She does her best to kind of 866 00:41:50,200 --> 00:41:52,359 Speaker 1: dig herself out of it. She buys herself out of 867 00:41:52,360 --> 00:41:55,440 Speaker 1: her multimillion dollar contract with Virgin Records that she was 868 00:41:55,440 --> 00:41:58,800 Speaker 1: with at that time, and h was reportedly considering a 869 00:41:58,920 --> 00:42:03,080 Speaker 1: contract with a Risk, which was Whitney Houston's label, and 870 00:42:03,320 --> 00:42:06,759 Speaker 1: Houston apparently went ballistic when she heard that she might 871 00:42:06,800 --> 00:42:08,759 Speaker 1: be sharing a label with her, you know, one time 872 00:42:08,880 --> 00:42:12,760 Speaker 1: art rival. Uh. Mariah didn't end up go in that direction, 873 00:42:12,920 --> 00:42:14,920 Speaker 1: but I think she saw m with Island, but just 874 00:42:14,960 --> 00:42:16,640 Speaker 1: there's a lot of press at the time that was 875 00:42:16,800 --> 00:42:19,960 Speaker 1: you know, Whitney let her feelings known. And in two 876 00:42:20,000 --> 00:42:23,839 Speaker 1: thousand nine, uh, Mariah Carey was struggling to finish up 877 00:42:24,080 --> 00:42:28,919 Speaker 1: her album Memoirs of an Imperfect Angel, and yeah, she's got. 878 00:42:29,120 --> 00:42:33,319 Speaker 1: My favorite Mariah Carey album title is me Maria the 879 00:42:33,360 --> 00:42:37,640 Speaker 1: Elusive Shantoos. I forget where the ellipses go in there, 880 00:42:37,719 --> 00:42:41,440 Speaker 1: but it's an incredible It's like somebody just like asked 881 00:42:41,440 --> 00:42:43,000 Speaker 1: her and she kind of made it up on the spot. 882 00:42:43,000 --> 00:42:46,160 Speaker 1: What do you want to call her album? Me Mariah 883 00:42:46,400 --> 00:42:49,440 Speaker 1: the Elusive shanto I just I love that. One of 884 00:42:49,480 --> 00:42:51,279 Speaker 1: many things you can say about Mariah Carey is that 885 00:42:51,320 --> 00:42:53,720 Speaker 1: she knows how to give herself nicknames. You have Mimi, 886 00:42:54,320 --> 00:42:57,680 Speaker 1: you have the Elusive Shantoose, you have the Imperfect Angel. 887 00:42:57,800 --> 00:43:01,160 Speaker 1: I mean it's like, oh man, you should just give 888 00:43:01,200 --> 00:43:05,000 Speaker 1: yourself nicknames all day long, like it's all gold. I 889 00:43:05,000 --> 00:43:07,520 Speaker 1: don't know where the Lamb's nickname for her fans came from. 890 00:43:07,719 --> 00:43:09,560 Speaker 1: I wonder if that was like just what you would call, like, 891 00:43:09,640 --> 00:43:11,960 Speaker 1: you know, my little lambs my fans. I always wondered 892 00:43:11,960 --> 00:43:15,440 Speaker 1: about that. Yeah, that's a that's another like again, great 893 00:43:15,880 --> 00:43:18,959 Speaker 1: coinage by Mariah Carey. But she was finishing this album 894 00:43:19,000 --> 00:43:21,280 Speaker 1: memoir isn't a perfect Angel, and I kept getting delayed 895 00:43:21,360 --> 00:43:23,680 Speaker 1: in like really short intervals, like you know, a week 896 00:43:23,760 --> 00:43:26,480 Speaker 1: or two at a time. And around the same time, 897 00:43:27,000 --> 00:43:30,080 Speaker 1: Whitney Houston moved up the release of her album I 898 00:43:30,120 --> 00:43:34,080 Speaker 1: looked to you one day from September one to August 899 00:43:34,120 --> 00:43:36,919 Speaker 1: thirty one, and the press just had a fueld day. 900 00:43:36,960 --> 00:43:39,400 Speaker 1: They said that, you know, Whitney did it symbolically to 901 00:43:39,480 --> 00:43:41,480 Speaker 1: let the world know that she was super prepared and 902 00:43:41,560 --> 00:43:44,360 Speaker 1: on time, you know, even early, unlike her, you know, 903 00:43:44,480 --> 00:43:47,360 Speaker 1: fellow diva who was tardy. And at this point she 904 00:43:47,400 --> 00:43:50,200 Speaker 1: had postponed appearances on Today, and I think she had 905 00:43:50,239 --> 00:43:54,200 Speaker 1: an episode of VH one Storytellers that got delayed, which 906 00:43:54,280 --> 00:43:55,959 Speaker 1: I don't know. I just I love that. I choose 907 00:43:56,000 --> 00:43:59,560 Speaker 1: to believe that that was like an incredible act of shade. Yeah, 908 00:43:59,640 --> 00:44:02,600 Speaker 1: so this is all leading up, I guess, to the 909 00:44:02,840 --> 00:44:05,920 Speaker 1: sad ending of this rivalry, which would be Whitney Houston's 910 00:44:06,160 --> 00:44:10,440 Speaker 1: death in February of two thousand twelve. Again just a 911 00:44:10,560 --> 00:44:12,879 Speaker 1: very sad story. There's like a number of documentaries about 912 00:44:12,880 --> 00:44:16,120 Speaker 1: Whitney Houston that I would recommend checking out. Um if 913 00:44:16,160 --> 00:44:18,160 Speaker 1: you don't know much about her story. It really is 914 00:44:18,239 --> 00:44:21,279 Speaker 1: like I think, again an instance, I think of a 915 00:44:21,480 --> 00:44:24,960 Speaker 1: of a pop star being in this gilded cage in 916 00:44:25,000 --> 00:44:27,640 Speaker 1: a lot of ways where she just was not allowed, 917 00:44:28,080 --> 00:44:30,799 Speaker 1: I think, for the longest time to be herself, and 918 00:44:30,840 --> 00:44:34,799 Speaker 1: then it seems like that caused her to overcorrect and 919 00:44:34,920 --> 00:44:37,560 Speaker 1: go down this terrible path, like with Bobby Brown and 920 00:44:37,640 --> 00:44:40,560 Speaker 1: like all this these you know, bad decisions that ended 921 00:44:40,640 --> 00:44:44,440 Speaker 1: up really taking her life off a track and tragically 922 00:44:44,560 --> 00:44:47,640 Speaker 1: ending it at two young of an age. And uh, 923 00:44:47,840 --> 00:44:49,880 Speaker 1: there's a story that, like I guess Mariah Carey and 924 00:44:49,880 --> 00:44:54,759 Speaker 1: Whitney Houston had had dinner in eleven I think Matt 925 00:44:54,840 --> 00:44:57,799 Speaker 1: long before Whitney Houston died. I'm not sure exactly what 926 00:44:57,800 --> 00:44:59,759 Speaker 1: the timeline there was, but I think it was like 927 00:44:59,800 --> 00:45:01,799 Speaker 1: a year before she died. It was a year before 928 00:45:01,800 --> 00:45:03,880 Speaker 1: she died. And Maria Carrey actually ended up going to 929 00:45:03,880 --> 00:45:07,879 Speaker 1: Whitney Houston's funeral, and uh, she she was on Good 930 00:45:07,880 --> 00:45:10,400 Speaker 1: Morning America I think a few days after that, and 931 00:45:10,480 --> 00:45:13,120 Speaker 1: her grief, I think it seems sincere like it seems 932 00:45:13,160 --> 00:45:15,720 Speaker 1: like she really was kind of wrecked by this happening. 933 00:45:15,719 --> 00:45:17,640 Speaker 1: I mean, there's a there's a quote from that appearance, 934 00:45:17,640 --> 00:45:20,759 Speaker 1: which she says, I'm almost incapable of talking about this still. 935 00:45:20,800 --> 00:45:23,080 Speaker 1: I think we all are. It's very heavy emotionally. I 936 00:45:23,080 --> 00:45:26,120 Speaker 1: don't think people could ever really understand our relationship. There 937 00:45:26,160 --> 00:45:28,759 Speaker 1: was always the supposed ravelry in the beginning, and then 938 00:45:28,760 --> 00:45:30,719 Speaker 1: we did it, and then we did the duet which 939 00:45:30,760 --> 00:45:33,200 Speaker 1: I guess is the Prince of Egypt song and became friends. 940 00:45:33,640 --> 00:45:35,279 Speaker 1: I saw her towards the end. I loved her. We 941 00:45:35,320 --> 00:45:37,200 Speaker 1: all loved her, and we were all inspired by her. 942 00:45:37,480 --> 00:45:39,480 Speaker 1: And you know, I'll take that at face value. I 943 00:45:39,480 --> 00:45:42,920 Speaker 1: think so. I think definitely from like Brian Carrey's perspective. Again, 944 00:45:43,320 --> 00:45:45,760 Speaker 1: you know, I think she probably sensed that Whitney Houston 945 00:45:45,840 --> 00:45:47,520 Speaker 1: was a little threatened by her. She could sense some 946 00:45:47,560 --> 00:45:50,760 Speaker 1: hostility from her, and it maybe made her feel awkward 947 00:45:50,840 --> 00:45:54,000 Speaker 1: at times, and therefore that might have caused her to 948 00:45:54,040 --> 00:45:57,080 Speaker 1: like blow her off at certain situations. But it seemed 949 00:45:57,120 --> 00:46:00,239 Speaker 1: like she did, I think down I think in her 950 00:46:00,239 --> 00:46:02,840 Speaker 1: heart like did like Whitney Houston. I think she probably 951 00:46:02,840 --> 00:46:05,879 Speaker 1: revered her and it understood that like Whitney Houston helped 952 00:46:05,880 --> 00:46:07,920 Speaker 1: paved the way for her own career. Yeah, I mean 953 00:46:07,920 --> 00:46:11,400 Speaker 1: that relationship. It's tough to lose an inspiration and stuff, 954 00:46:11,440 --> 00:46:13,000 Speaker 1: to lose a friend. But when they're all those sort 955 00:46:13,000 --> 00:46:16,560 Speaker 1: of unresolved feelings like that too, which I tend to 956 00:46:16,600 --> 00:46:20,359 Speaker 1: believe that they probably were, and that makes it so 957 00:46:20,440 --> 00:46:22,120 Speaker 1: much worse when there's so much sort of left on 958 00:46:22,239 --> 00:46:25,280 Speaker 1: said between them, I've assumed too. Yeah, that was sad. 959 00:46:25,320 --> 00:46:28,319 Speaker 1: And she led the tribute at the Whitney Houston UM 960 00:46:28,960 --> 00:46:33,759 Speaker 1: tribute at the Sorry b T Awards, although she didn't sing, 961 00:46:33,800 --> 00:46:35,520 Speaker 1: which I always thought was interesting. But she got up 962 00:46:35,560 --> 00:46:38,680 Speaker 1: there and talked about her memories of her time with 963 00:46:39,080 --> 00:46:43,080 Speaker 1: with Whitney but incredibly sad story. And she talked about too, 964 00:46:43,120 --> 00:46:46,520 Speaker 1: about how she felt like the industry pit her against 965 00:46:46,520 --> 00:46:48,600 Speaker 1: Whitney Houston and then she felt like it was it 966 00:46:48,680 --> 00:46:51,120 Speaker 1: was sort of like larger forces coming into play. And 967 00:46:51,120 --> 00:46:53,000 Speaker 1: we've talked about this in other episodes, like in our 968 00:46:53,480 --> 00:46:57,000 Speaker 1: uh Cardi b in Nicki Minaj episode that sometimes there's 969 00:46:57,080 --> 00:47:01,200 Speaker 1: this idea I think, where, oh, especially if you're a woman, 970 00:47:01,239 --> 00:47:03,200 Speaker 1: that like, oh, you're the woman in this lane, there 971 00:47:03,200 --> 00:47:06,360 Speaker 1: can only be one woman here. If another woman comes along, 972 00:47:06,440 --> 00:47:09,200 Speaker 1: that means that you have to fight for supremacy for 973 00:47:09,239 --> 00:47:11,719 Speaker 1: this spot. And you know, we haven't really talked about 974 00:47:11,719 --> 00:47:13,120 Speaker 1: that a lot in this episode, but I mean there 975 00:47:13,160 --> 00:47:15,560 Speaker 1: probably was some of that as well. I mean, not 976 00:47:15,640 --> 00:47:18,920 Speaker 1: so much I think coming from either Mariah or Whitney 977 00:47:19,120 --> 00:47:21,360 Speaker 1: so much maybe, but like from people like Tommy Motola, 978 00:47:21,520 --> 00:47:25,440 Speaker 1: you know, who was consciously molding Mariah Carey somewhat against 979 00:47:25,480 --> 00:47:28,080 Speaker 1: her own will to be like the next Whitney Houston, 980 00:47:28,120 --> 00:47:30,040 Speaker 1: and you know, and maybe that just kind of got 981 00:47:30,040 --> 00:47:33,200 Speaker 1: them off on the wrong foot and caused tension that 982 00:47:33,200 --> 00:47:35,479 Speaker 1: didn't need to exist. I think what you said something 983 00:47:35,520 --> 00:47:37,920 Speaker 1: like that when they were doing the Upper Show together 984 00:47:37,960 --> 00:47:39,560 Speaker 1: for the Prince of Egypt soundtracks, she said, you know, 985 00:47:39,800 --> 00:47:41,880 Speaker 1: this is just sexism. Like you've got Dan rather than 986 00:47:41,920 --> 00:47:43,839 Speaker 1: Ted Coppold. You don't see like the press pitting them 987 00:47:43,880 --> 00:47:46,560 Speaker 1: against each other like that. You know, it's just there. 988 00:47:46,640 --> 00:47:49,320 Speaker 1: There can be more than one. It's not it's not Braveheart. 989 00:47:49,600 --> 00:47:51,359 Speaker 1: We're gonna take a quick break and get a word 990 00:47:51,360 --> 00:48:02,839 Speaker 1: from our sponsor before we get to more rivals. All right, 991 00:48:02,840 --> 00:48:04,439 Speaker 1: So we've now reached the part of the episode where 992 00:48:04,480 --> 00:48:07,040 Speaker 1: we give the pro side from each side of the rivalry. 993 00:48:07,120 --> 00:48:10,120 Speaker 1: Let's talk about Whitney Houston first. I had to say that, 994 00:48:10,160 --> 00:48:13,240 Speaker 1: like in terms of just you know, the vocal quality. 995 00:48:13,000 --> 00:48:16,239 Speaker 1: I'm probably more on the Whitney Houston side. I just 996 00:48:16,360 --> 00:48:18,560 Speaker 1: love her voice, and I think that the story of 997 00:48:18,560 --> 00:48:23,960 Speaker 1: her career often is her elevating material that like wasn't great, 998 00:48:24,400 --> 00:48:27,640 Speaker 1: but like because of her voice, she just lifted it 999 00:48:27,719 --> 00:48:31,520 Speaker 1: up so much. She could redeem songs again that we're 1000 00:48:31,560 --> 00:48:33,600 Speaker 1: sort of middle of the road and not terribly exciting. 1001 00:48:33,719 --> 00:48:37,360 Speaker 1: You know. It's it's sad to me that, like Whitney Houston, 1002 00:48:38,080 --> 00:48:39,840 Speaker 1: I don't know if she ever got much of an 1003 00:48:39,880 --> 00:48:43,000 Speaker 1: opportunity to really show up what she could do, which 1004 00:48:43,040 --> 00:48:44,600 Speaker 1: is kind of a weird thing to say about someone 1005 00:48:44,840 --> 00:48:47,560 Speaker 1: who's as successful as she is. But you know, if 1006 00:48:47,560 --> 00:48:50,000 Speaker 1: she could have been with the right producer that could 1007 00:48:50,000 --> 00:48:52,680 Speaker 1: have given her the songs that were worthy of her talent, 1008 00:48:53,120 --> 00:48:55,520 Speaker 1: I just wonder what she could have done. I mean, 1009 00:48:55,680 --> 00:48:57,839 Speaker 1: if you look at I Will Always Love You as 1010 00:48:57,840 --> 00:49:00,879 Speaker 1: an example, like that is an under notably great song, 1011 00:49:01,360 --> 00:49:03,800 Speaker 1: you know, written by a world class songwriter, Dolly Pardon, 1012 00:49:04,520 --> 00:49:07,440 Speaker 1: and she made it her own. I mean, she knocked 1013 00:49:07,480 --> 00:49:09,759 Speaker 1: it out of the park, and I just wonder, like, 1014 00:49:09,800 --> 00:49:12,040 Speaker 1: what what could she have done with like more songs 1015 00:49:12,080 --> 00:49:14,560 Speaker 1: of that caliber. It's just like one of the many 1016 00:49:14,680 --> 00:49:18,040 Speaker 1: sort of sad things about her untimely death. You know, 1017 00:49:18,560 --> 00:49:21,359 Speaker 1: she should still be here making music, and it's it's 1018 00:49:21,360 --> 00:49:24,000 Speaker 1: tragic that she's not. Yeah, I always thought her gospel 1019 00:49:24,000 --> 00:49:27,080 Speaker 1: training helped her sort of transmit emotion a little better 1020 00:49:27,080 --> 00:49:30,640 Speaker 1: than Mariah could through through her music. And Mariah I 1021 00:49:30,680 --> 00:49:32,960 Speaker 1: think has a slightly bigger range. She's got the whistle 1022 00:49:33,040 --> 00:49:35,480 Speaker 1: tones and all that, but you're right, Whitney has this 1023 00:49:35,560 --> 00:49:39,680 Speaker 1: like kind of dusky, heavier tone, uh five octaves, which 1024 00:49:39,719 --> 00:49:42,480 Speaker 1: is still nuts. Um. And I think that there was 1025 00:49:42,560 --> 00:49:45,719 Speaker 1: some thoughts about how her last couple albums, which didn't 1026 00:49:45,760 --> 00:49:47,680 Speaker 1: really sell as well, we're kind of her like late 1027 00:49:47,680 --> 00:49:50,239 Speaker 1: era Sinatra records, where she could you know, because her 1028 00:49:50,320 --> 00:49:52,200 Speaker 1: voice wasn't the same after years of drug use, but 1029 00:49:52,200 --> 00:49:56,000 Speaker 1: it still had that ability to convey that incredible emotion. 1030 00:49:56,600 --> 00:49:58,239 Speaker 1: And um, I also think when he was a better 1031 00:49:58,280 --> 00:50:01,040 Speaker 1: live performer than Mariah. And that's not just because that 1032 00:50:01,120 --> 00:50:03,640 Speaker 1: Mariah has been you know, all the lip syncn controversies 1033 00:50:03,680 --> 00:50:06,520 Speaker 1: in recent years. I think that Whitney. I think Mariah 1034 00:50:06,560 --> 00:50:08,840 Speaker 1: was more of a technician. I think Whitney liked to 1035 00:50:09,680 --> 00:50:12,920 Speaker 1: sort of divert from the recorded version and really almost 1036 00:50:12,920 --> 00:50:15,120 Speaker 1: like a jazz singer and just and kind of get 1037 00:50:15,160 --> 00:50:17,960 Speaker 1: more interesting with it live she could improvise, whereas I 1038 00:50:18,000 --> 00:50:20,480 Speaker 1: think Mariah kind of stayed as close to the recorded 1039 00:50:20,560 --> 00:50:25,600 Speaker 1: version as possible. Um. I mean, you know, they're both incredible. Whitney, 1040 00:50:25,640 --> 00:50:28,680 Speaker 1: I do not realize the most awarded female musician in 1041 00:50:28,800 --> 00:50:33,640 Speaker 1: history and second overall behind Michael Jackson six hundred awards 1042 00:50:33,640 --> 00:50:39,000 Speaker 1: in her lifetime with seven Grammy Awards and Mariah clarks 1043 00:50:39,040 --> 00:50:41,319 Speaker 1: in at eleventh with I think two hundred and eighty 1044 00:50:41,360 --> 00:50:46,040 Speaker 1: one awards and five Grammys. Um, and she is just twoards, 1045 00:50:46,960 --> 00:50:50,759 Speaker 1: just just ignored Mariah Carey. Uh yeah. I mean, you know, 1046 00:50:50,880 --> 00:50:53,040 Speaker 1: if if you go over to the pro Mariah carry side, 1047 00:50:53,440 --> 00:50:55,080 Speaker 1: I think it's fair to say that she's had the 1048 00:50:55,120 --> 00:50:58,000 Speaker 1: better overall career. I mean, here we are thirty years 1049 00:50:58,080 --> 00:51:00,560 Speaker 1: later after her first hit Vision and of Love, and 1050 00:51:00,600 --> 00:51:02,959 Speaker 1: I feel like, you know, Maria Carey is still someone 1051 00:51:03,040 --> 00:51:05,840 Speaker 1: that she could put out a record next week and 1052 00:51:05,920 --> 00:51:08,520 Speaker 1: people would have expectations that it could be good. You know, 1053 00:51:08,560 --> 00:51:11,200 Speaker 1: I think there's still an idea, especially among pop fans, 1054 00:51:11,239 --> 00:51:13,399 Speaker 1: that she is like a legacy artist that's worth paying 1055 00:51:13,400 --> 00:51:15,759 Speaker 1: attention to. And you know, I mentioned this earlier. We 1056 00:51:15,760 --> 00:51:17,719 Speaker 1: didn't spend much time talking about it, but like All 1057 00:51:17,760 --> 00:51:21,040 Speaker 1: I Want for Christmas as You is like a modern standard. 1058 00:51:21,160 --> 00:51:24,040 Speaker 1: It is like the most popular Christmas song like for 1059 00:51:24,520 --> 00:51:26,880 Speaker 1: many many years, and I think it will continue to 1060 00:51:26,920 --> 00:51:29,759 Speaker 1: have that status for years to come. So like if 1061 00:51:29,760 --> 00:51:33,480 Speaker 1: her reputation was just like writing and recording that song, like, 1062 00:51:33,600 --> 00:51:36,200 Speaker 1: she'd be set for life. But um, you know, I 1063 00:51:36,239 --> 00:51:38,680 Speaker 1: think another thing about Mariah Carey too that is inspiring 1064 00:51:38,760 --> 00:51:41,080 Speaker 1: is that, you know, she did have that dark period 1065 00:51:41,680 --> 00:51:44,960 Speaker 1: where uh, it did seem like maybe her career was 1066 00:51:45,000 --> 00:51:47,480 Speaker 1: over and she was able to pull out of it 1067 00:51:47,719 --> 00:51:51,640 Speaker 1: and do really well, And it is, um a nice 1068 00:51:51,680 --> 00:51:54,440 Speaker 1: contrast with the tragedy of the Whitney Houston story. You 1069 00:51:54,480 --> 00:51:57,000 Speaker 1: know who, Whitney Houston went into a tail spin that 1070 00:51:57,040 --> 00:51:59,680 Speaker 1: she wasn't able to pull out of sadly, But Maria 1071 00:51:59,760 --> 00:52:03,840 Speaker 1: Carey eight is I guess the counterexample showing that you 1072 00:52:03,880 --> 00:52:06,919 Speaker 1: can go through difficult times but you can also find 1073 00:52:06,920 --> 00:52:10,279 Speaker 1: a way out of it. So as a survivor, I 1074 00:52:10,320 --> 00:52:13,440 Speaker 1: think you also have to give Mariah Carrier props. Absolutely, 1075 00:52:13,880 --> 00:52:15,680 Speaker 1: she is I think my favorite of the two. I 1076 00:52:15,680 --> 00:52:18,080 Speaker 1: just think she has a much more adaptable voice suited 1077 00:52:18,120 --> 00:52:20,520 Speaker 1: to many different styles. I think her transition over to 1078 00:52:20,600 --> 00:52:23,000 Speaker 1: hip hop with songs like Heartbreaker and Honey and all 1079 00:52:23,000 --> 00:52:25,680 Speaker 1: the O d B remixes were successful because she has 1080 00:52:25,760 --> 00:52:29,440 Speaker 1: this really, you know, sultry, breathy, silky quality to her voice. 1081 00:52:29,760 --> 00:52:31,920 Speaker 1: I think if Whitney came from the church, Mariah came 1082 00:52:31,960 --> 00:52:34,160 Speaker 1: from the opera. Her mother was was an opera singer 1083 00:52:34,160 --> 00:52:37,000 Speaker 1: and sort of trained her as a little girl. And 1084 00:52:37,120 --> 00:52:39,400 Speaker 1: I think her voice was a lot more elastic. Uh. 1085 00:52:39,480 --> 00:52:41,040 Speaker 1: And as I said earlier, I mean she she has 1086 00:52:41,200 --> 00:52:44,040 Speaker 1: a greater arrange and uh, I mean and and just 1087 00:52:44,120 --> 00:52:46,880 Speaker 1: for songwriting, like you said, I think she's writing credits 1088 00:52:46,920 --> 00:52:49,680 Speaker 1: on seventeen of her eighteen number ones. Uh. And the 1089 00:52:49,719 --> 00:52:51,239 Speaker 1: only one that she does in is a cover of 1090 00:52:51,520 --> 00:52:55,200 Speaker 1: Michael Jackson Jackson five song I'll Be There. Um God, 1091 00:52:55,239 --> 00:52:56,680 Speaker 1: all I want for Christmas is you. I mean, it 1092 00:52:56,760 --> 00:52:59,640 Speaker 1: got to number one this year. I mean, or in 1093 00:53:00,080 --> 00:53:03,480 Speaker 1: the Christmas en that is insane. The staying power of 1094 00:53:03,520 --> 00:53:05,920 Speaker 1: that song. I mean, the number of insane stats for 1095 00:53:06,040 --> 00:53:08,279 Speaker 1: Mariah is just off the charts. I mean, she's tied 1096 00:53:08,320 --> 00:53:11,080 Speaker 1: with Taylor Swift for the third best selling female singer 1097 00:53:11,080 --> 00:53:13,640 Speaker 1: of all time, has the most number ones of any 1098 00:53:13,640 --> 00:53:17,759 Speaker 1: singer ever. With nineteen best selling single All I Want 1099 00:53:17,760 --> 00:53:21,320 Speaker 1: for Christmas, you have sold sixteen million copies. First female 1100 00:53:21,320 --> 00:53:23,320 Speaker 1: with debut at number one on the Hot one hundred, 1101 00:53:23,640 --> 00:53:26,080 Speaker 1: only person to have three songs debut at number one, 1102 00:53:26,440 --> 00:53:29,080 Speaker 1: and the only person to have a streak of five 1103 00:53:29,200 --> 00:53:32,919 Speaker 1: number one singles twice in a row. I just it's 1104 00:53:33,000 --> 00:53:35,920 Speaker 1: unreally not bad, not bad, not bad Maria. So if 1105 00:53:35,920 --> 00:53:38,000 Speaker 1: we look at these two together, I think it's fair 1106 00:53:38,080 --> 00:53:40,120 Speaker 1: to say that even now that if you are like 1107 00:53:40,160 --> 00:53:44,279 Speaker 1: an aspiring diva yourself, that these are the two go 1108 00:53:44,400 --> 00:53:47,520 Speaker 1: to standards, you know, like you want to be Whitney 1109 00:53:47,600 --> 00:53:50,200 Speaker 1: or Maria, or you want to be both of them. Um, 1110 00:53:50,239 --> 00:53:52,080 Speaker 1: And I really feel like, you know, for all the 1111 00:53:52,120 --> 00:53:54,320 Speaker 1: talk that we've had in this episode about them being rivals, 1112 00:53:54,320 --> 00:53:56,440 Speaker 1: of them being pitted against each other, it seems like 1113 00:53:56,480 --> 00:53:59,200 Speaker 1: at this moment in history that if you like one, 1114 00:53:59,480 --> 00:54:02,040 Speaker 1: you probably we like the other. You know, they're both 1115 00:54:02,440 --> 00:54:05,520 Speaker 1: pop royalty at this point, So the rivalry I think 1116 00:54:05,520 --> 00:54:08,440 Speaker 1: has been put to bed. They're both great, and I 1117 00:54:08,480 --> 00:54:11,160 Speaker 1: think everyone loves both of them. Yeah, you know, Mariah 1118 00:54:11,160 --> 00:54:13,120 Speaker 1: got her name after the song they call the Wind 1119 00:54:13,120 --> 00:54:15,520 Speaker 1: to Mariah and I always thought that was appropriate because 1120 00:54:15,520 --> 00:54:17,680 Speaker 1: her voice was just like the air. It's just this 1121 00:54:17,880 --> 00:54:22,840 Speaker 1: breathy sound that just and Whitney had this fiery gospel intensity. 1122 00:54:22,880 --> 00:54:25,120 Speaker 1: I think it's just it's like fire and air. It's elemental, 1123 00:54:25,160 --> 00:54:27,280 Speaker 1: it's you know, it's a matter of preference. Like you said, opinion, 1124 00:54:27,320 --> 00:54:30,080 Speaker 1: I don't think someone who likes one hates the other. 1125 00:54:30,320 --> 00:54:32,960 Speaker 1: I think they're both in supremely talented and worthy of 1126 00:54:33,040 --> 00:54:37,279 Speaker 1: their status as virtuoso's and pop powerhouses. Well, Jordan's this 1127 00:54:37,320 --> 00:54:40,319 Speaker 1: episode is has me feeling emotions and Steven, I will 1128 00:54:40,360 --> 00:54:43,680 Speaker 1: always love you. Well, on that note, I think it's 1129 00:54:43,680 --> 00:54:45,359 Speaker 1: time for us to sign off, so we will be 1130 00:54:45,400 --> 00:54:48,239 Speaker 1: back next week with more feuds and beefs and long 1131 00:54:48,280 --> 00:54:58,960 Speaker 1: saving resentments here in Rivals Take Care. Rivals is a 1132 00:54:59,000 --> 00:55:01,680 Speaker 1: production of My Heart Radio. The executive producers are Seawan 1133 00:55:01,719 --> 00:55:04,960 Speaker 1: Tytone and Noel Brown. The supervising producers are Taylor Chacogne 1134 00:55:05,000 --> 00:55:08,319 Speaker 1: and Tristan McNeil. The producer is Joel hat Stack. I'm 1135 00:55:08,400 --> 00:55:10,560 Speaker 1: Jordan Runt Talk, and I'm Stephen Hyden. If you like 1136 00:55:10,640 --> 00:55:12,600 Speaker 1: what you heard, please subscribe and leave us a review. 1137 00:55:12,640 --> 00:55:15,160 Speaker 1: For more podcast for My Heart Radio, visit the I 1138 00:55:15,239 --> 00:55:18,200 Speaker 1: heart radio, app, Apple podcast, orhe ever you listen to 1139 00:55:18,239 --> 00:55:19,040 Speaker 1: your favorite shows.