WEBVTT - !!!BREAKING!!! Killer Mom Trial:  Jury DEADLOCKED

0:00:02.190 --> 0:00:02.670
<v Speaker 1>Hey there, folks.

0:00:02.750 --> 0:00:06.229
<v Speaker 2>It is Tuesday, September 1st, and a breaking news update.

0:00:06.790 --> 0:00:11.250
<v Speaker 2>They are deadlocked. And with that, welcome to this episode

0:00:11.350 --> 0:00:14.610
<v Speaker 2>of Amy and TJ. The jury in the Lindsay Clancy

0:00:14.650 --> 0:00:17.660
<v Speaker 2>triple murder trial has just reported to the judge that

0:00:17.730 --> 0:00:22.680
<v Speaker 2>they cannot reach a unanimous decision. They came back in

0:00:22.720 --> 0:00:25.760
<v Speaker 2>this morning. We told you about to start their fourth

0:00:25.800 --> 0:00:29.910
<v Speaker 2>day of deliberations. They came into the courtroom today. fairly uneventful,

0:00:29.950 --> 0:00:31.970
<v Speaker 2>just like they have so many other mornings. The judge

0:00:32.590 --> 0:00:34.270
<v Speaker 2>asked them a few questions to make sure they haven't

0:00:34.310 --> 0:00:37.790
<v Speaker 2>seen anything that would influence their decision-making and sent them

0:00:37.830 --> 0:00:41.130
<v Speaker 2>back out, and we wait. At that point, they had

0:00:41.150 --> 0:00:44.330
<v Speaker 2>deliberated 17 hours, so they went back in at about

0:00:44.330 --> 0:00:49.630
<v Speaker 2>9 a.m. About 10.15, they sent a note to the judge,

0:00:50.260 --> 0:00:54.300
<v Speaker 2>that note saying that they are deadlocked hopelessly and cannot

0:00:54.380 --> 0:00:56.880
<v Speaker 2>reach a unanimous decision. So at this point, they have

0:00:56.920 --> 0:01:02.640
<v Speaker 2>deliberated 18 hours, but say they cannot or do not

0:01:02.700 --> 0:01:05.060
<v Speaker 2>need to deliberate further. They sound pretty sure that they

0:01:05.120 --> 0:01:08.759
<v Speaker 2>cannot come up with a unanimous decision. Now, the decision

0:01:08.800 --> 0:01:11.770
<v Speaker 2>they are trying to make, so much talked about, of course,

0:01:11.810 --> 0:01:15.390
<v Speaker 2>whether or not Lindsay Clancy was sane or criminally responsible

0:01:15.490 --> 0:01:18.710
<v Speaker 2>for killing her children. She, of course, has said that

0:01:18.750 --> 0:01:23.300
<v Speaker 2>she was suffering from postpartum psychosis, a voice told her

0:01:23.340 --> 0:01:25.440
<v Speaker 2>to do it, and that is why. There has been

0:01:25.560 --> 0:01:30.300
<v Speaker 2>so much testimony, doctor versus doctor on both sides, expert

0:01:30.319 --> 0:01:33.560
<v Speaker 2>versus expert, having to do with postpartum and mental health

0:01:33.610 --> 0:01:37.750
<v Speaker 2>for women. The jury clearly is having a difficult time

0:01:37.850 --> 0:01:41.730
<v Speaker 2>with deciding whether or not this woman should be held

0:01:41.790 --> 0:01:45.410
<v Speaker 2>criminally responsible for what she did to these three kids.

0:01:45.490 --> 0:01:49.630
<v Speaker 2>A reminder, these kids were five, three, and eight months old.

0:01:50.370 --> 0:01:53.690
<v Speaker 2>and she strangled each of them. And then she tried

0:01:53.730 --> 0:01:56.020
<v Speaker 2>to slit her throat, and she jumped out a window.

0:01:56.440 --> 0:01:59.260
<v Speaker 2>She has a long history, as a reminder, a long

0:01:59.320 --> 0:02:02.800
<v Speaker 2>history of mental illness. No one is doubting that. The

0:02:02.880 --> 0:02:06.550
<v Speaker 2>question is, how mentally ill was she? Was she actually

0:02:06.610 --> 0:02:11.730
<v Speaker 2>in psychosis? And if she was, is she criminally responsible

0:02:11.850 --> 0:02:13.970
<v Speaker 2>at all? So the options for the jury back there,

0:02:13.990 --> 0:02:20.940
<v Speaker 2>they're dealing with first-degree murder, second-degree murder, manslaughter, not guilty

0:02:20.980 --> 0:02:25.410
<v Speaker 2>by reason of insanity, and not guilty. Obviously, we all,

0:02:25.490 --> 0:02:28.250
<v Speaker 2>everybody's in agreement, she killed the kids, so not guilty's

0:02:28.870 --> 0:02:31.790
<v Speaker 2>not on the table. Four other options then. First degree,

0:02:31.870 --> 0:02:34.570
<v Speaker 2>second degree, manslaughter, or not guilty by reason of insanity.

0:02:35.600 --> 0:02:39.679
<v Speaker 2>You would have a difficult time thinking, right, folks, that

0:02:40.200 --> 0:02:43.150
<v Speaker 2>first degree murder is the thing they're hung up on.

0:02:43.180 --> 0:02:45.870
<v Speaker 2>Is there somebody in there, in that jury room, that

0:02:45.940 --> 0:02:49.230
<v Speaker 2>is keeping them deadlocked because they're saying, no way in

0:02:49.250 --> 0:02:52.500
<v Speaker 2>the world I'm voting for anything else other than first

0:02:52.530 --> 0:02:53.090
<v Speaker 2>degree murder.

0:02:55.040 --> 0:02:55.459
<v Speaker 1>Who knows?

0:02:56.080 --> 0:02:58.899
<v Speaker 2>Don't know how likely that is. But if you do that,

0:02:58.960 --> 0:03:02.280
<v Speaker 2>you're saying she had she was under no influence of

0:03:02.340 --> 0:03:05.280
<v Speaker 2>any drugs or any mental illness. She is just a

0:03:05.320 --> 0:03:07.400
<v Speaker 2>woman who did this on her own. Don't know how

0:03:07.440 --> 0:03:09.120
<v Speaker 2>high of a bar you think that is, but that's

0:03:09.220 --> 0:03:11.860
<v Speaker 2>option one. If you go down a second degree in manslaughter.

0:03:13.470 --> 0:03:16.169
<v Speaker 2>It's hard to think you're getting held up. If you

0:03:16.210 --> 0:03:17.970
<v Speaker 2>were to go with manslaughter, you would probably go with

0:03:18.010 --> 0:03:19.770
<v Speaker 2>second degree. If you went with second degree, you'd probably

0:03:19.810 --> 0:03:25.090
<v Speaker 2>be okay with manslaughter. What I'm saying is it appears...

0:03:25.919 --> 0:03:29.180
<v Speaker 2>Doesn't this appear that this is a debate in that

0:03:29.240 --> 0:03:33.519
<v Speaker 2>jury room the same as the debate is happening on X,

0:03:34.220 --> 0:03:39.100
<v Speaker 2>on TikTok, at our dinner tables, on our podcasts, and

0:03:39.220 --> 0:03:44.640
<v Speaker 2>everywhere else, whether or not this woman was... sane or not.

0:03:44.780 --> 0:03:48.310
<v Speaker 2>How responsible is she for what she did to these kids?

0:03:49.470 --> 0:03:52.770
<v Speaker 2>Not guilty by reason of insanity. Some people think that

0:03:52.830 --> 0:03:58.110
<v Speaker 2>is absolutely bonkers to even consider. Manslaughter at least gave

0:03:58.150 --> 0:04:03.190
<v Speaker 2>them the option of saying, you know what, she's somewhat responsible,

0:04:03.730 --> 0:04:05.620
<v Speaker 2>even though we know she didn't get good care, she

0:04:05.660 --> 0:04:08.100
<v Speaker 2>was on all these drugs, and she was mentally ill.

0:04:08.280 --> 0:04:12.070
<v Speaker 2>That gave them some wiggle room. They can't get everybody

0:04:12.150 --> 0:04:15.190
<v Speaker 2>in that room to agree to that even, to manslaughter.

0:04:15.210 --> 0:04:19.980
<v Speaker 2>So that means there's somebody in there that wants, what, more?

0:04:20.710 --> 0:04:23.700
<v Speaker 2>And there's somebody in there that wants less, potentially, than that.

0:04:23.820 --> 0:04:25.960
<v Speaker 2>My goodness. So this was the judge just a short

0:04:26.000 --> 0:04:31.700
<v Speaker 2>time ago. Walking in, he called them all back in. Again,

0:04:31.760 --> 0:04:34.770
<v Speaker 2>every time they do this, the judge gets a question.

0:04:34.970 --> 0:04:37.029
<v Speaker 2>He has to summon all the attorneys to come back,

0:04:37.310 --> 0:04:41.060
<v Speaker 2>call court back in session. bring the jury in, and

0:04:41.080 --> 0:04:43.130
<v Speaker 2>then they address the issue. So here he was just

0:04:43.190 --> 0:04:44.890
<v Speaker 2>a short time ago, and he didn't take long. This

0:04:44.950 --> 0:04:46.690
<v Speaker 2>is what the judge said to the jury when they

0:04:46.730 --> 0:04:47.040
<v Speaker 2>walked in.

0:04:48.589 --> 0:04:51.969
<v Speaker 1>Members of the jury, I've got your question, and the

0:04:52.029 --> 0:04:56.270
<v Speaker 1>question is, after many hours of deliberation, we are unable

0:04:56.310 --> 0:04:59.750
<v Speaker 1>to come to a unanimous decision. I brought you back

0:04:59.860 --> 0:05:03.860
<v Speaker 1>out because I know that this was a long trial.

0:05:03.880 --> 0:05:04.820
<v Speaker 2>All right?

0:05:05.220 --> 0:05:08.380
<v Speaker 1>I know there were over 80 witnesses. There were over

0:05:08.380 --> 0:05:14.159
<v Speaker 1>300 exhibits. But because of that, I'm going to ask

0:05:14.200 --> 0:05:17.460
<v Speaker 1>you to go back out, keeping in mind all of

0:05:17.480 --> 0:05:20.820
<v Speaker 1>the instructions that I gave you, to go out and

0:05:20.860 --> 0:05:25.270
<v Speaker 1>to continue your deliberations at this time. All right? And

0:05:25.290 --> 0:05:27.050
<v Speaker 1>so with that, I'm going to ask you to go

0:05:27.089 --> 0:05:30.510
<v Speaker 1>back out. Like I said, keep in mind the instructions

0:05:30.570 --> 0:05:33.550
<v Speaker 1>I gave you, reviewing the evidence, and I'd ask you

0:05:33.570 --> 0:05:36.300
<v Speaker 1>to resume your deliberations at this time.

0:05:36.880 --> 0:05:37.159
<v Speaker 2>Okay?

0:05:37.380 --> 0:05:37.660
<v Speaker 1>Thank you.

0:05:40.520 --> 0:05:44.000
<v Speaker 2>And that was it. He didn't talk them through much.

0:05:44.760 --> 0:05:50.609
<v Speaker 2>He didn't explain anything further. He didn't even commiserate. He

0:05:50.630 --> 0:05:53.390
<v Speaker 2>didn't comfort. He just said, I need y'all to go

0:05:53.430 --> 0:05:57.450
<v Speaker 2>back at it. And you can understand why. The possibility,

0:05:57.470 --> 0:06:01.909
<v Speaker 2>the prospect of going through all of this again. Reddington

0:06:01.950 --> 0:06:04.410
<v Speaker 2>said it the other day, the defense attorney, like there's

0:06:04.430 --> 0:06:07.280
<v Speaker 2>going to be 16 more people out there. We're going

0:06:07.300 --> 0:06:09.480
<v Speaker 2>to have to put through this process all over again.

0:06:10.560 --> 0:06:13.460
<v Speaker 2>It was difficult. The last couple of weeks were focused

0:06:13.480 --> 0:06:20.339
<v Speaker 2>more so on testimony from doctors, from the professional psychologists

0:06:20.380 --> 0:06:24.800
<v Speaker 2>and psychiatrists. But the first one, two, three weeks of

0:06:24.860 --> 0:06:29.880
<v Speaker 2>this trial were tough to stomach. Autopsy photos of children,

0:06:30.620 --> 0:06:33.669
<v Speaker 2>the actual bands that were put around their necks were

0:06:33.700 --> 0:06:37.300
<v Speaker 2>in the courtroom and being held and being displayed. That

0:06:37.320 --> 0:06:40.560
<v Speaker 2>was very difficult testimony to hear about how long it

0:06:40.600 --> 0:06:45.570
<v Speaker 2>took the kids to die. This is hard stuff. And

0:06:46.350 --> 0:06:50.770
<v Speaker 2>I know this judge, and you know this jury, this family,

0:06:51.089 --> 0:06:53.230
<v Speaker 2>there is nobody in that courtroom that wants to do

0:06:53.290 --> 0:06:55.850
<v Speaker 2>this all over again. So this judge is going to

0:06:55.890 --> 0:06:59.390
<v Speaker 2>do everything in his power, everything he can, to get

0:06:59.450 --> 0:07:02.690
<v Speaker 2>them to come to a conclusion. Now, what are the options?

0:07:02.810 --> 0:07:07.570
<v Speaker 2>As I sit here, it is 10... what, it's coming

0:07:07.610 --> 0:07:10.130
<v Speaker 2>up on 11 o'clock on the East Coast. So that

0:07:10.270 --> 0:07:13.470
<v Speaker 2>means that, what, two hours? This is going to put

0:07:13.550 --> 0:07:18.150
<v Speaker 2>them at, what, 17, 18, 19 hours. They're almost at

0:07:18.150 --> 0:07:21.010
<v Speaker 2>19 hours now. If they go to lunchtime, that will

0:07:21.060 --> 0:07:23.250
<v Speaker 2>put them at 21 hours. If they go the rest

0:07:23.300 --> 0:07:27.380
<v Speaker 2>of the day, it'll be 23 hours that they have deliberated.

0:07:27.900 --> 0:07:31.760
<v Speaker 2>What's the judge going to do? We don't know. And

0:07:32.120 --> 0:07:34.060
<v Speaker 2>what does he have the right, the discretion to do?

0:07:35.700 --> 0:07:38.060
<v Speaker 2>He can tell them to keep going back and keep

0:07:38.120 --> 0:07:40.540
<v Speaker 2>going back, but at some point he has to call it.

0:07:40.800 --> 0:07:43.840
<v Speaker 2>When that's going to be, who knows? That's a judge's discretion.

0:07:44.360 --> 0:07:47.620
<v Speaker 2>It's hard to imagine he's going to have them so

0:07:47.760 --> 0:07:49.380
<v Speaker 2>early in the day that they came out and said,

0:07:49.420 --> 0:07:53.000
<v Speaker 2>we got nothing, to send them back and make them

0:07:53.080 --> 0:07:56.840
<v Speaker 2>stick around the rest of the day without some kind

0:07:56.900 --> 0:08:00.460
<v Speaker 2>of update or something he gives them to help guide

0:08:00.500 --> 0:08:02.860
<v Speaker 2>them along. That would be hard to believe and certainly

0:08:02.880 --> 0:08:04.080
<v Speaker 2>be hard to believe that they're going to go back

0:08:04.120 --> 0:08:06.870
<v Speaker 2>there and keep talking end the day and then come

0:08:06.910 --> 0:08:12.070
<v Speaker 2>back tomorrow morning, I'm saying this day could be it

0:08:13.060 --> 0:08:15.680
<v Speaker 2>in this trial one way or another. The judge does

0:08:15.710 --> 0:08:22.740
<v Speaker 2>have one other option here. He can, more commonly, we

0:08:22.780 --> 0:08:27.160
<v Speaker 2>hear it as the Allen charge in cases, but the

0:08:27.240 --> 0:08:30.580
<v Speaker 2>Allen charge is essentially instruction he can give them. That

0:08:30.680 --> 0:08:34.040
<v Speaker 2>is controversial because it sounds like he's encouraging them to

0:08:34.120 --> 0:08:37.329
<v Speaker 2>change their minds. But it's an instruction that's given oftentimes

0:08:37.380 --> 0:08:39.579
<v Speaker 2>in courts when juries are deadlocked, when they're having a

0:08:39.610 --> 0:08:43.170
<v Speaker 2>hard time, to, hey, here's a way to do it.

0:08:43.230 --> 0:08:45.810
<v Speaker 2>But when you hear it, it almost sounds like, hey,

0:08:46.110 --> 0:08:48.750
<v Speaker 2>be open to others' opinion and be okay with changing

0:08:48.770 --> 0:08:51.089
<v Speaker 2>your mind. It's how it comes off, and it is controversial.

0:08:51.429 --> 0:08:52.770
<v Speaker 2>We have that in a lot of places all over

0:08:52.809 --> 0:08:56.590
<v Speaker 2>the country. But in Massachusetts, they have their own, it's

0:08:56.630 --> 0:09:01.530
<v Speaker 2>called the Tui Rodriguez rule, I believe it is, Tui Rodriguez,

0:09:01.890 --> 0:09:05.010
<v Speaker 2>after two cases they had. But it's a similar thing,

0:09:05.309 --> 0:09:08.890
<v Speaker 2>essentially telling them, go back, be open, be willing to listen,

0:09:09.170 --> 0:09:13.869
<v Speaker 2>and essentially be willing to change your mind. Now, I

0:09:13.990 --> 0:09:16.150
<v Speaker 2>do believe the attorneys would have to sign off on

0:09:16.200 --> 0:09:20.880
<v Speaker 2>that before. But the judge, nobody's asked for that yet.

0:09:21.120 --> 0:09:23.439
<v Speaker 2>The judge hasn't agreed to give it yet. But that

0:09:23.480 --> 0:09:25.359
<v Speaker 2>at least is an option that he could have to

0:09:25.400 --> 0:09:28.330
<v Speaker 2>try to encourage them to get back there and keep

0:09:28.420 --> 0:09:31.360
<v Speaker 2>at it. Now, stay here. I do want to tell you,

0:09:31.420 --> 0:09:33.980
<v Speaker 2>if you've noticed here on Amy and TJ for this episode,

0:09:34.040 --> 0:09:37.819
<v Speaker 2>Ropes and I have done every single Clancy trial update together.

0:09:38.980 --> 0:09:42.260
<v Speaker 2>You're not going to believe the reason that she's not

0:09:42.340 --> 0:09:46.490
<v Speaker 2>here now and why I almost didn't make it. Stay here.

0:09:55.640 --> 0:09:59.470
<v Speaker 2>All right, we continue here on Amy and TJ. Jury deadlocked.

0:09:59.850 --> 0:10:02.670
<v Speaker 2>Judge sent them back in, told them to keep at it,

0:10:02.970 --> 0:10:05.310
<v Speaker 2>to try. But they say they cannot come up with

0:10:05.350 --> 0:10:09.630
<v Speaker 2>a unanimous decision in the Lindsay Clancy triple murder trial.

0:10:10.590 --> 0:10:13.070
<v Speaker 2>We are staying very close, watching this thing. I have

0:10:13.130 --> 0:10:15.450
<v Speaker 2>live streamed. It's live feeds all over the place. You

0:10:15.470 --> 0:10:19.390
<v Speaker 2>should see our studio right now, literally looking at five screens.

0:10:19.850 --> 0:10:22.420
<v Speaker 2>Three of them have the trial on. Now, Robes and

0:10:22.520 --> 0:10:28.199
<v Speaker 2>I have been watching this every day, live streaming, watching

0:10:28.260 --> 0:10:31.240
<v Speaker 2>it live. Even if we can't watch it live, obviously,

0:10:31.340 --> 0:10:33.540
<v Speaker 2>it's all on tape, on video now, so we can

0:10:33.570 --> 0:10:36.329
<v Speaker 2>go back. So we've watched almost every single word of

0:10:36.370 --> 0:10:40.950
<v Speaker 2>this trial. So here we are at the end. And

0:10:41.070 --> 0:10:45.410
<v Speaker 2>so we actually had two very pressing appointments that needed

0:10:45.429 --> 0:10:48.890
<v Speaker 2>to be made. And we kept delaying them and delaying

0:10:48.910 --> 0:10:50.380
<v Speaker 2>them because we wanted to get to the end of

0:10:50.420 --> 0:10:55.410
<v Speaker 2>this trial. So we made those appointments for today. Because

0:10:55.450 --> 0:11:00.469
<v Speaker 2>we thought, surely, we're probably safe and not going to

0:11:00.510 --> 0:11:04.360
<v Speaker 2>have an issue. So sure enough, this morning, coming into

0:11:04.380 --> 0:11:08.100
<v Speaker 2>day four, I had to be at a foot appointment.

0:11:09.020 --> 0:11:13.730
<v Speaker 2>And as I was in the seat having my foot

0:11:13.760 --> 0:11:18.830
<v Speaker 2>doctor put a needle in my foot, I had my

0:11:18.890 --> 0:11:22.120
<v Speaker 2>phone in my hand and I'm watching... the jury come

0:11:22.160 --> 0:11:24.320
<v Speaker 2>back into the courtroom. And I said, you got to

0:11:24.340 --> 0:11:28.800
<v Speaker 2>be freaking kidding me. Robes, off at her appointment as well, said,

0:11:28.820 --> 0:11:31.220
<v Speaker 2>you got to be freaking kidding me. So as soon

0:11:31.400 --> 0:11:34.120
<v Speaker 2>as we step away for just a moment, here they

0:11:34.140 --> 0:11:36.590
<v Speaker 2>come and there's some action. It's not the actual verdict,

0:11:36.630 --> 0:11:39.350
<v Speaker 2>of course, but that is why Robes is not here

0:11:39.370 --> 0:11:42.069
<v Speaker 2>on this particular episode. And you know she's pissed that

0:11:42.090 --> 0:11:44.430
<v Speaker 2>she's not. But she's going to be back in just

0:11:44.470 --> 0:11:47.080
<v Speaker 2>a little bit, so we will be back at it.

0:11:47.270 --> 0:11:49.010
<v Speaker 2>And we are keeping a close eye. Folks, you can

0:11:49.030 --> 0:11:52.500
<v Speaker 2>keep an eye on our feed today. I don't know

0:11:52.559 --> 0:11:54.800
<v Speaker 2>at this point much else we should be putting up

0:11:55.700 --> 0:12:01.160
<v Speaker 2>besides clancy updates, but keep an eye on the feed, folks.

0:12:01.470 --> 0:12:05.410
<v Speaker 2>But we always appreciate you sticking with us and trusting

0:12:05.510 --> 0:12:09.210
<v Speaker 2>us along this journey that has been five-plus weeks. And

0:12:09.250 --> 0:12:11.310
<v Speaker 2>will it end today with a verdict? Will it end

0:12:11.350 --> 0:12:15.380
<v Speaker 2>today with a hung jury? And with that, folks, we'll

0:12:15.400 --> 0:12:18.380
<v Speaker 2>always appreciate you. I'm TJ on behalf of my dear Robach.

0:12:18.400 --> 0:12:19.440
<v Speaker 2>We'll talk to you all real soon.