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Speaker 1: Welcome to Katie's Crib, a production of Shonda Land Audio

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Speaker 1: in partnership with I Heart Radio. Hello everybody, and welcome

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Speaker 1: back to Katie's Crib. Today we are unpacking maternal health

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Speaker 1: for Black, Indigenous and people of color, and we have

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Speaker 1: the ultimate honor of welcoming Latham Thomas to the podcast.

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Speaker 1: Latham is a maternity lifestyle naven. You guys. She is

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Speaker 1: a world renowned wellness leader and a master birth doula.

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Speaker 1: She is the founder of Mama Glow, a premier maternity

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Speaker 1: lifestyle brand committed to supporting women from fertility into motherhood.

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Speaker 1: She was named one of Oprah Winfrey's Super Soul one hundred.

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Speaker 1: She is bridging the gap between optimal wellness, spiritual growth,

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Speaker 1: radical self care. She is the go to guru for modern,

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Speaker 1: holistic lifestyle for women. Oh and she authored the best

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Speaker 1: selling book Mama Glow, A Hip to a Fabulous an

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Speaker 1: Abundant Pregnancy. I mean, come on, who doesn't want that?

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Speaker 1: She's incredible. I learned so much from her. The conversation

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Speaker 1: spans so many topics. Please enjoy my conversation with Latham Thomas. Latham,

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Speaker 1: thank you so much for joining me on Katie's crib. Katie,

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Speaker 1: thank you for having me. It's so nice to see

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Speaker 1: you like um, not being a badass on television, but

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Speaker 1: just like hanging out. Thank you. Oh my gosh. And

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Speaker 1: the last time, if you watch Scandal, the last season,

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Speaker 1: I was pregnant with my first yes, and now at

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Speaker 1: the time of this recording, I am thirty five weeks

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Speaker 1: pregnant with my second wild. So I have heard about

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Speaker 1: you through so many different moms in New York. I

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Speaker 1: had the pleasure of living in New York City when

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Speaker 1: I was shooting UM, the new Netflix series Inventing Anna,

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Speaker 1: and I was meeting moms who were just like, talk

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Speaker 1: think about you, And I was like, who is this

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Speaker 1: glorious being that has been gifted to the motherhood maternity world.

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Speaker 1: So you're a champion of badass birthing, which I love,

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Speaker 1: and you're also a mom yourself. Can you tell me

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Speaker 1: a little bit about yourself as a mom, and then

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Speaker 1: can you talk to me about what inspired you to

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Speaker 1: get into this line of work and eventually start Mama Glow. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: So my son is seven teen, he's applying to colleges

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Speaker 1: like I have friends right now who are applying to

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Speaker 1: pre schools and like kindergarten and I'm applying to college.

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Speaker 1: So that's been interesting. But you know, I feel like

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Speaker 1: the same magnificence and brilliance and beauty of this process

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Speaker 1: from when I was pregnant. Harry's its way through those years, right,

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Speaker 1: and seventeen years later, I'm still in awe. I'm still

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Speaker 1: looking over him when he sleeps, as if he's not real,

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Speaker 1: And um, that never goes away. And I thought that

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Speaker 1: like one day I would get I don't know, used

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Speaker 1: to him. I haven't. And so I think, like for

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Speaker 1: all of us who are in this who have little ones,

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Speaker 1: just do not blink. It goes so fast. People say

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Speaker 1: it goes fast and cherish it, but really do because

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Speaker 1: you look up and you're like, how am I looking

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Speaker 1: up to you? You used to fit inside of the

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Speaker 1: crook of my arm, right, So it's quite fascinating. Um,

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Speaker 1: and he's been there the whole time that I was,

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Speaker 1: you know, iterating this business. So the idea for Mama

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Speaker 1: Glow came when you were pregnant with him. Really a

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Speaker 1: rudiments of what will become I'm a glow sort of

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Speaker 1: came and like I would say, a constellation of stars

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Speaker 1: that had to connect. Now I looked up, I'm like, oh,

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Speaker 1: I see how everything is connected. But at the time

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Speaker 1: it was little nuggets of really sending me in the

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Speaker 1: direction of where I should be going with the work.

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Speaker 1: But during my pregnancy, I was living in New York City.

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Speaker 1: I was living actually in Harlem and moved to Chelsea

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Speaker 1: with my boyfriend at a time, and seven blocks away

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Speaker 1: there was his first center. And the way it's set up,

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Speaker 1: it's all about lot of the autonomy. It's all about

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Speaker 1: you having access to your records, your information. And so

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Speaker 1: as I go in, you know, I'm taking my own temperature,

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Speaker 1: I'm doing my weight check, and then I do my

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Speaker 1: own urine strips and write down like what's in my urine,

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Speaker 1: and I put that in my chart myself. I take

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Speaker 1: my weight and then I go wait, yes, And then

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Speaker 1: you look at your records. You can take them whenever

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Speaker 1: you want. It wasn't like this thing where you could

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Speaker 1: file this paperwork, so then get your records like three

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Speaker 1: months later, and it was like full autonomy in this process.

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Speaker 1: Plus they made you do twenty one hours of education

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Speaker 1: before you deliver for there. I have truly never heard

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Speaker 1: of this, which is I know, isn't that amazing? And

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Speaker 1: as you're saying it, I'm like, oh, this sounds like

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Speaker 1: a great option. Yes, And it doesn't exist anymore because

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Speaker 1: they shut it down essentially two months after my son

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Speaker 1: was born. This was the only freestanding verse into in

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Speaker 1: New York City, which meant that you could deliver their

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Speaker 1: independent of a hospital at all. They had a hospital

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Speaker 1: partnership if there was an emergency within DBA, a transfer,

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Speaker 1: but it was an independent, restanding birthing center where midwives

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Speaker 1: were running it. And it was amazing. And I remember

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Speaker 1: the day that I went into labor. You know, I

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Speaker 1: felt confident because I had this great relationship, but I

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Speaker 1: also had the information that I needed to understand what

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Speaker 1: my body was experiencing so that I was comfortable being

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Speaker 1: at home. I was comfortable like taking my own process

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Speaker 1: and really channeling my own internal resources to get through

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Speaker 1: the experience. And so it was that that really sparked

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Speaker 1: it for me. And when I got to the birth center, Um,

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Speaker 1: first of all, I was with my son's father, his godfather,

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Speaker 1: and his grandfather and they're like making me laugh but

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Speaker 1: also like stressing. Yeah, And so we get to the

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Speaker 1: face of birth and they we walk in and they

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Speaker 1: are like you get her in the bed, you know,

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Speaker 1: she's having a baby, hurry, hurt, and the midwives her

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Speaker 1: five minutes silence and they watched and they observed me

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Speaker 1: and stillness and they're just like okay. They don't say anything,

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Speaker 1: they just watch, and then five minutes later, like a

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Speaker 1: couple of cycles of contractions coming and they just kind

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Speaker 1: of gently guide me to where I'm gonna go to

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Speaker 1: the birthing room. And the silence and the cadence and

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Speaker 1: the shift of energy for the people who were there,

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Speaker 1: like you right, Like I just had a shift of

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Speaker 1: energy just you Like I'm just like, yeah, it's normal,

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Speaker 1: it's safe. Like she's good, right, Let's like let her

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Speaker 1: guide this process. And then I basically got in the tub. Honestly,

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Speaker 1: when it was time for to push. Is when I

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Speaker 1: have this transformative moment where I knew that afterwards that

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Speaker 1: I would have to do this work. Um. At one point,

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Speaker 1: my son's corn was kind of like wrapped around his

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Speaker 1: shoulder a little bit like a backpack strap up, so

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Speaker 1: as he was descending, it was kind of being compressed

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Speaker 1: and so his heart rate would decelerate. And I was

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Speaker 1: in the tub, thinking I was going to deliver in

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Speaker 1: the water, and the midwives knew something was up, and

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Speaker 1: so they're like, yeah, let's hit you out of the tub,

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Speaker 1: and like let's have you in the bed. Let's just

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Speaker 1: squat and have the baby now. Super calm, right, but

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Speaker 1: like it was time, And so I get in the

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Speaker 1: bed and Katie like, have you ever been in a

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Speaker 1: place where you felt to this energy so strong? Like

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Speaker 1: someone was staring at you and you look and you're like, okay,

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Speaker 1: I'm about to ignite who was looking at me with

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Speaker 1: that intensity, like you yourself being observed. It was at

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Speaker 1: that feeling of observation and I look up and I

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Speaker 1: see this like halo shaped like a horse shoe, like

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Speaker 1: a you around me. It was like ancestors that were

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Speaker 1: around me. And I didn't recognize the look of them,

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Speaker 1: but I just had this sole recognition that these were

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Speaker 1: my people. And I looked up and I pointed, and

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Speaker 1: everybody remembers this I painted, and I said, I want

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Speaker 1: to go there. And I saw myself like kind of

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Speaker 1: lift that on my body and go there. And I

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Speaker 1: watched my STUNDI born from that vantage point, and that's

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Speaker 1: where I knew, yes, That's when I knew that people

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Speaker 1: have been keeping this wisdom from us. People have been

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Speaker 1: like taking our power away from us, have been denying

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Speaker 1: us this write a passage that could be so transformative,

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Speaker 1: and we don't even realize it because we're taught right

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Speaker 1: away like we have to endure hardship or we have

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Speaker 1: to endure challenge or pain. If we could contextualize what

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Speaker 1: this experience really is like, there is a place for

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Speaker 1: pain management, absolutely, like I would never take that away

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Speaker 1: from anyone, but there is also an opportunity for us

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Speaker 1: to like live into this experience and feel our way

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Speaker 1: through and anchor ourselves for transformation, for the potential for

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Speaker 1: becoming a bigger, better, different version of yourself. And so

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Speaker 1: the ego shedding and the spiritual awakening that's available to

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Speaker 1: us during labor, I think is so powerful. After that,

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Speaker 1: I was like, oh yeah, like nobody could tell me ship.

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Speaker 1: I was like, no, I'm like amazing what I could

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Speaker 1: do with my boody right. But then also it was

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Speaker 1: like nobody told me it could be this m And

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Speaker 1: you were like, oh my gosh. My mission is to

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Speaker 1: tell women that this is what it can be like.

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Speaker 1: And now seventeen years later with having Mama Glow or

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Speaker 1: sixteen years later you coach women through having I'm assuming

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Speaker 1: a very autonomous, spiritual, beautiful birthing experience. How many do

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Speaker 1: you even know how many birds you've attended? Yeah, it's

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Speaker 1: been hundreds. I used to do. I used to do

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Speaker 1: like for a month and I had a partner at

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Speaker 1: the time. It's not to be done. He's a tag team,

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Speaker 1: and before I know, it did not last obviously. Um

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Speaker 1: now I just do like one a year or something like.

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Speaker 1: I don't do that many now, but but yeah, I

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Speaker 1: mean it's you know, I'm here to support whatever experienced

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Speaker 1: people desire, right and whatever experience is showing up and

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Speaker 1: is available to them. And that's not always what people

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Speaker 1: imagine or hope for sometimes, but but sometimes it is

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Speaker 1: what they need. I'm here to help them contextualize it

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Speaker 1: and process it and contain it in a way that

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Speaker 1: they can remember it, um in a way where they

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Speaker 1: felt empowered regardless of the outcome, you know, and so

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Speaker 1: beautiful is important, so important. Absolutely. I also think there's

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Speaker 1: so much fear and not knowing around labor and delivery.

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Speaker 1: I was so scared and I also had just had

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Speaker 1: so many friends that had really traumatic experiences um that

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Speaker 1: they were still grappling with years later, and I just

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Speaker 1: was like, my only goal is to have a good memory.

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Speaker 1: I want to look back and say it was one

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Speaker 1: of the best adventures of my life, you know, and

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Speaker 1: I really feel strongly that I was able to do that.

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Speaker 1: For those unfamiliar, can you just share a little bit

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Speaker 1: about how your company has been serving women during the pandemic. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: so people can come and they can get support, they

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Speaker 1: can get information classes. You know, there's webinars which we

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Speaker 1: really started because of like COVID, right, so people could

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Speaker 1: just feel like they weren't missing out on access to

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Speaker 1: really good information. And because like we used to do

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Speaker 1: a lot of live events in New York, it's like

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Speaker 1: a way for us to just do them virtually, which

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Speaker 1: has been great. We do some lives which were really

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Speaker 1: great on Instagram. But also yeah, like the duel of

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Speaker 1: trainings we took online, and we used to do those

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Speaker 1: only in New York, l A, Miami, and Paris, and

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Speaker 1: now they can join us from wherever they are, so

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Speaker 1: we have even a bigger global community than we have before.

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Speaker 1: And we support the dulas with professional development. We make

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Speaker 1: sure that they connect with clients. Me, it's a really

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Speaker 1: great community. We were able to provide virtual DULA support,

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Speaker 1: so people need to support from AFAR, we can help

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Speaker 1: provide that we're able to provide physical support, and that's

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Speaker 1: for fertility, labor, ampulist, partum, and then also for folks

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Speaker 1: who are like you know, in the continuum of loss,

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Speaker 1: you know, like um October for instances pregnancy and infant

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Speaker 1: loss Awareness month, right, and people are suffering in silence

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Speaker 1: around loss and and loss also includes you know, abortion

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Speaker 1: and and sort of supporting people who are in situations

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Speaker 1: where their bodies are under legislative attack, right, And so

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Speaker 1: I think it's important for dulas also to hold that

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Speaker 1: line um for reproductive justice and making sure that people

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Speaker 1: have access and and supports emotionally and psychologically wherever they

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Speaker 1: are on a continuum. Whoa good lord, I just got

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Speaker 1: such goose bumps. I never even thought about what it

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Speaker 1: means to be a duela right here, right now, in

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Speaker 1: this time when women's healthcare and reproductive healthcare is being

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Speaker 1: so under attack. It's like, oh my god. Before COVID,

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Speaker 1: I didn't even know there was really like a maternal

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Speaker 1: mortality that is so disproportionate how it affects Black women

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Speaker 1: and white women. I didn't know. And again like in

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Speaker 1: terms of white people, me waking up during this time

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Speaker 1: and un learning and learning things that I should know.

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Speaker 1: Like I was at a checkup and my doctor is Asian,

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Speaker 1: and she always knew it was bad because she's a

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Speaker 1: doctor and she sees what she sees. But she was like,

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Speaker 1: COVID has made this so much worse. And I was

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Speaker 1: looking on your site. I think it was was it

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Speaker 1: a talk or it was a webinar specifically on this

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Speaker 1: topic about our medical syst them how the maternal mortality

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Speaker 1: affects Black women differently than white women. There are huge

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Speaker 1: gaps that leave black mother's exposed and can potentially even

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Speaker 1: exacerbate their health risk. Um and I want to talk

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Speaker 1: of a little bit about that because I think you've

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Speaker 1: been to so many births, you are a black woman yourself.

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Speaker 1: Can you just expand on this maternal health epidemic because

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Speaker 1: the data is absolutely staggering. So, like I think in

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Speaker 1: Ish there was a couple of seminal reports on the

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Speaker 1: maternal health crisis in the US that really focus on

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Speaker 1: the black maternal health as a critical piece of the story,

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Speaker 1: and it was New York Times and pro Publica did

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Speaker 1: a piece, and then a lot of pieces started coming down.

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Speaker 1: The interesting thing is that the Black maternal health rates

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Speaker 1: as it relates to sort of mortality morbidity, have not

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Speaker 1: changed for the better in the past twenty five years

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Speaker 1: and um and it hasn't in the focus of our

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Speaker 1: new has in the focus of the fuminist movement, and

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Speaker 1: really it's a human rights issue, right, So we talk

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Speaker 1: about this, we have to see it is something that

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Speaker 1: is important to all of us and that affects all

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Speaker 1: of us. And we know that mothers are the crux

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Speaker 1: of communities, and so you know, when mother dies, like

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Speaker 1: it really destroys the architecture of our communities. And this

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Speaker 1: is not just happening in Black communities, is also happening

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Speaker 1: to white women, but disproportionately, it does occur for Black

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Speaker 1: women and Native American women. And so when we're contextualizing

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Speaker 1: this and and talked about like, well, how is it

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Speaker 1: that it's possible that it's this bad that like in

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Speaker 1: a place like New York, you know, a black person

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Speaker 1: could be eight to twelve times were likely to die

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Speaker 1: during childbirth than a white woman, right, to have that

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Speaker 1: be the stat it's like, what is what's making that possible?

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Speaker 1: And there's so many things that factor in, but really

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Speaker 1: it's racism that's like at its core, and in terms

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Speaker 1: of medical racism and how people move through these systems

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Speaker 1: where they experienced neglect, where they experience this belief of

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Speaker 1: being impervious to pain, basically not being treated humanely, waiting

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Speaker 1: for a normal amount of time in an emergency room

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Speaker 1: for treatment, UM, you know, not being administered pay medication

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Speaker 1: in a timely manner, not having your needs met in

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Speaker 1: a timely manner, basically having medical procedures performed on you

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Speaker 1: without consent, also being underdiagnosed, misdiagnosed UM. There's insurance apartheid

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Speaker 1: where people are siloed by insurance type in terms of

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Speaker 1: the types of services that they can get, but even

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Speaker 1: the testing that they can actually get under their insurance.

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Speaker 1: So there's so many things that create this this barrier.

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Speaker 1: And then there's also things like UM maternity deserts where

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Speaker 1: people don't live close enough to a hospital or provider.

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Speaker 1: There's also the fact that there's stressors. Right, there's like

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Speaker 1: chronic stress that really affects your health, and chronic stress

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Speaker 1: will destroy the architecture of ourselves. Right. And so when

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Speaker 1: we tell about chronic stress, you have people where, for instance,

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Speaker 1: if I was white and I graduated from high school,

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Speaker 1: I would have better chances of survival and childbirth than

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Speaker 1: a black woman who has a post doctorate degree. Right,

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Speaker 1: So she's actually worse off the more education she has,

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Speaker 1: and if she has um you know, economic mobility. These

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Speaker 1: things do not protect Black women. And so we know

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Speaker 1: it's based on um racial factors. We know that it's

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Speaker 1: not because we're black, but we know that blackness makes

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Speaker 1: us a target. And we see this obviously in the

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Speaker 1: Native American community. Two and it's the same rates therefore

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Speaker 1: to five times were likely to die as well. It's

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Speaker 1: awful like this, this morbidity and mortality is preventable. It's

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Speaker 1: absolutely appalling. It's shameful, like the racial disparity within our

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Speaker 1: health care system. I mean, I think it's interesting that

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Speaker 1: when we talk about, you know, this reckoning that's happening

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Speaker 1: in the world, right, and people are like, we're looking

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Speaker 1: at every institutional framework, but then somehow it's like no medicine,

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Speaker 1: no there of course there's no medical racism. Of course

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Speaker 1: there's no bias, of course there is. It's like our

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Speaker 1: medical system, particularly when we talked about gynecology, was advanced

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Speaker 1: based on race, was advanced because of chattel slavery. You

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Speaker 1: know at the time, you know, we were first and

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Speaker 1: were brought forcibly on these shores as African people. Not

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Speaker 1: only did women come with the very incredible skills of

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Speaker 1: navigating the pelvis and understanding how it deliver babies, some

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Speaker 1: of which they had to deliver in the middle passage

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Speaker 1: in boats on the way here, right, and and then

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Speaker 1: they got here, and not only deliver each other's babies,

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Speaker 1: they would deliver the babies of the mistresses. They would

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Speaker 1: also take care of the mistresses and the master if

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Speaker 1: there were no doctors around. I mean, they like did

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Speaker 1: a lot right of caretaking and also had incredible um

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Speaker 1: sort of folk wisdom that they brought to their care

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Speaker 1: and with the consent of their masters, their bodies were

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Speaker 1: experimented upon. Many of them were brought into slave hospitals

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Speaker 1: where they have pathologies that were essentially diagnosed and treated

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Speaker 1: for the help. And if it's a white women, right,

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Speaker 1: so if we experiment on you, we can figure out

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Speaker 1: a solution that's gonna you know, take care of those.

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Speaker 1: That's exactly right. And there was also this very delicate

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Speaker 1: piece of really wanting to protect the asset. The female

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Speaker 1: body was the asset because she could carry down the

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Speaker 1: lineage and because slavery continued on the maternal line, so

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Speaker 1: whatever the status was of the mother, if the mother

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Speaker 1: was enslaved, then her offspring would also be enslaved. And

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Speaker 1: so they could protect their economic investment right that way

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Speaker 1: because of this, Right like, you have people who were

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Speaker 1: in these hospitals who are credited as the fathers of gynecology.

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Speaker 1: Ja Mary and Simms had a statue in New York

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Speaker 1: that is taken down a few years ago, But this

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Speaker 1: is someone who experimented on hundreds of black bodies without anisia,

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Speaker 1: without consent. You know, rates Um did all kinds of

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Speaker 1: horrible things. That's documented, and medicine advanced because of that.

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Speaker 1: And so we talk about where we are now, there's

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Speaker 1: a reckoning that we need to have around the harms

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Speaker 1: that we're done that continuously have been done through today,

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Speaker 1: because there's still things happening that are horrifying today. I mean,

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Speaker 1: I'm sure that you saw this whole thing about you know,

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Speaker 1: the ice forces directomese. But we know that this has

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Speaker 1: been happening for a very long time in this country,

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Speaker 1: and so I think that you know, having a framework

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Speaker 1: where we really look at and and really interrogate what

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Speaker 1: is happening inside these systems is important. And yes, the

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Speaker 1: medical system is fraught with um white supremacy, and it's

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Speaker 1: fraught with racism. And I think what people need to

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Speaker 1: understand that white supremacy has many forms. It's not just racism,

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Speaker 1: it is also sexism. It is also transphobia, homophobia, a

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Speaker 1: fat phobia, able is um um and so it separates

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Speaker 1: and creates a structure of dominance. And in the medical system,

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Speaker 1: the white male body is considered as normal. Everything else

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Speaker 1: is deviant, right, and that's evident in our testing, our

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Speaker 1: like everything, like if there's something wrong with men, it

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Speaker 1: gets fixed and it gets cured, right, absolutely. So can

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Speaker 1: you just explain, um a little bit about some of

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Speaker 1: the ways that people can get involved now in the

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Speaker 1: fight for birth equity? Yeah, I mean safety is like

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Speaker 1: the thing that we need, that's the most basic of

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Speaker 1: human needs, and that's something that we need to um

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Speaker 1: protect and to really make sure is our focus so

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Speaker 1: that I can actually ascend and have what I really

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Speaker 1: call the birth trance, right, like to be able to

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Speaker 1: be in this altered state of consciousness, this high otherworldly

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Speaker 1: play ace um like that's available to us too, you know.

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Speaker 1: And I think that, you know, if we think about

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Speaker 1: like what the outcome is that we desire, but also

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Speaker 1: connect to what do we want kind of our legacy

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Speaker 1: to look like as we look back and how do

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Speaker 1: we heal forward? And I think about like, you know,

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Speaker 1: experiences that my grandmother had and like how she birthed

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Speaker 1: and it didn't even sound humane honestly, And then I

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Speaker 1: think about how my mother birthed and how she changed

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Speaker 1: and interrupted that you know pattern, and then how I birth,

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Speaker 1: which is continuing to like be on a path of healing.

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Speaker 1: My sister who had three home births, you know, and

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Speaker 1: one unassisted, whoa yeah in the tub, she was like okay,

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Speaker 1: like here it was over. Yeah. But but even with

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Speaker 1: stuff like that, it's right, Wow, it's possible, you know,

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Speaker 1: to to have a really um beautiful experience, and it

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Speaker 1: actually should be something that we fight for and not

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Speaker 1: settle or make people feel like, you know, they should

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Speaker 1: just suck it up or it should just get through

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Speaker 1: this is not. This is a birthday, this is a

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Speaker 1: holy day. And how you're born matters, like how you

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Speaker 1: come into this world matters, how you're born into motherhood

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Speaker 1: and parenting matters, and how important it is to make

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Speaker 1: sure to protect people's safety and autonomy and UM and

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Speaker 1: and bodily autonomy has to be number one because many

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Speaker 1: of us it's I mean, we haven't had control over

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Speaker 1: our bodies, like I mean, we're talking about generations that

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Speaker 1: are just now having bottle the autonomy. Who know about

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Speaker 1: other generations who haven't like we We talked to our

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Speaker 1: relatives who have had forceable procedures without consent. So what

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Speaker 1: we can do right because we do know that there's

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Speaker 1: an issue, there's a couple of things legislatively we can act.

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Speaker 1: There's a Maternal Health Mommy Must Act that was presented

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Speaker 1: in a hundred sixty Congress. It's still here to be

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00:24:02,040 --> 00:24:06,440
Speaker 1: essentially pushed through this year and it contains um many

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Speaker 1: different pieces of legislation that address different issues including UM

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Speaker 1: incarcerated women, including creating better access to uh MIDWIF free

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Speaker 1: and do list services. It includes more strict reporting you know,

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Speaker 1: by institutions on their outcomes, and essentially creating accountability inside

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Speaker 1: this system. There's a lot of pieces that make up

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Speaker 1: this legislation, but it was wrought forth by the Black

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Speaker 1: Maternal Health Caucus. Kamala Harris was one of the initial

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Speaker 1: um CO signers on this package of bills. So that's

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Speaker 1: something that you could absolutely like start to push forward,

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Speaker 1: keep talking about, you know, and and talk to your

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Speaker 1: senators about we also have two percent of all midwives

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Speaker 1: being Black women. In addition, I would say, like we're

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Speaker 1: talking about midwif free and um really helping because it's

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Speaker 1: expensive for people to to do midwi free training. And

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Speaker 1: even if you become licensed and your practitioner doesn't, you

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Speaker 1: can practice in your state. It depends, like there's so

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Speaker 1: many rules basically because we build systems against midwiffery in

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Speaker 1: this country right to prioritize and make sure that um,

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Speaker 1: you know, people would really bring their birth to the hospitals.

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Speaker 1: So it is really challenging for people to maintain a

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Speaker 1: practice outside of the hospital. And so taking some of

428
00:25:32,280 --> 00:25:36,240
Speaker 1: your money and putting it towards a scholarship program at

429
00:25:36,280 --> 00:25:38,719
Speaker 1: some of the midwif free programs at center around BIPOP

430
00:25:38,760 --> 00:25:44,640
Speaker 1: communities contributing whether it's donations, whether it's support to um

431
00:25:45,359 --> 00:25:48,720
Speaker 1: you know, do LAH programs that are centering the voices

432
00:25:48,800 --> 00:25:51,800
Speaker 1: of people of color and advancing those groups and also

433
00:25:51,840 --> 00:25:56,359
Speaker 1: the perspectives that are centering marginalized people because it's not

434
00:25:56,520 --> 00:26:00,560
Speaker 1: enough to you know, like if everyone's sort of trained

435
00:26:00,560 --> 00:26:04,760
Speaker 1: in this system of learning and hasn't looked outside and

436
00:26:04,920 --> 00:26:08,680
Speaker 1: how it's not inclusive, then people are going out and

437
00:26:08,920 --> 00:26:12,040
Speaker 1: working with net contexts and methodology but not able to

438
00:26:12,080 --> 00:26:14,600
Speaker 1: support the people who come. And so we really do

439
00:26:14,720 --> 00:26:17,000
Speaker 1: need to like lift up the voices that are on

440
00:26:17,040 --> 00:26:19,120
Speaker 1: the margins, that are doing the work, that are centering

441
00:26:19,119 --> 00:26:22,280
Speaker 1: those voices. Also, you can sponsor people. You know, there

442
00:26:22,359 --> 00:26:24,399
Speaker 1: might be people in your community who want to do

443
00:26:24,440 --> 00:26:27,920
Speaker 1: a training. Like similarly, for people who need a DUELA,

444
00:26:28,080 --> 00:26:30,080
Speaker 1: you can put a little fund together. Everybody pull their

445
00:26:30,119 --> 00:26:33,040
Speaker 1: money in for them to get a DULA. Yeah, there's

446
00:26:33,119 --> 00:26:35,840
Speaker 1: lots of things we can do. Yeah. Can I ask

447
00:26:35,880 --> 00:26:38,560
Speaker 1: you what's your hope or vision for the future of

448
00:26:38,600 --> 00:26:41,399
Speaker 1: healthcare in this country as it relates to Duela's. I

449
00:26:41,440 --> 00:26:45,640
Speaker 1: think when it comes to creating these better the safer spaces,

450
00:26:45,840 --> 00:26:47,760
Speaker 1: I mean, I am interested in making sure that we

451
00:26:48,000 --> 00:26:51,520
Speaker 1: build a different system that people can go into that

452
00:26:51,640 --> 00:26:55,199
Speaker 1: is safe. But I also am also more interested in

453
00:26:55,480 --> 00:26:59,359
Speaker 1: us staying like outside here building the future and without

454
00:26:59,359 --> 00:27:01,600
Speaker 1: a hospital birth and what that could look like. But

455
00:27:01,720 --> 00:27:08,560
Speaker 1: because we've forced everyone into one sort of uh system, right,

456
00:27:08,720 --> 00:27:13,439
Speaker 1: like a monoculture of of you know, UM of medicine

457
00:27:13,680 --> 00:27:18,760
Speaker 1: only and eccentrics and gynecology as the only way, then

458
00:27:18,840 --> 00:27:22,000
Speaker 1: you have people who you know are not good candidates

459
00:27:22,040 --> 00:27:24,520
Speaker 1: for hospital that are birthing in the hospital and having

460
00:27:24,520 --> 00:27:27,760
Speaker 1: poor birth outcomes. You're having people who should be at

461
00:27:27,760 --> 00:27:31,679
Speaker 1: home or who should be in UM a birth sensor

462
00:27:31,760 --> 00:27:33,960
Speaker 1: setting that would thrive in that kind of setting, that

463
00:27:33,960 --> 00:27:36,560
Speaker 1: would actually have the birth of a desire in that setting.

464
00:27:37,280 --> 00:27:41,040
Speaker 1: So it's it's about also revisioning for a future where

465
00:27:41,080 --> 00:27:45,040
Speaker 1: we have adequate resources outside. We need to have options

466
00:27:45,080 --> 00:27:47,880
Speaker 1: for women or they feel supported and feel like that

467
00:27:48,040 --> 00:27:50,439
Speaker 1: is also possible when you labor, which I think a

468
00:27:50,440 --> 00:28:03,360
Speaker 1: lot of women don't. Can you give me some advice

469
00:28:03,440 --> 00:28:07,000
Speaker 1: on how expecting mothers can best advocate for themselves whatever

470
00:28:07,240 --> 00:28:10,199
Speaker 1: path you're taking, learn all of the paths, right. What

471
00:28:10,359 --> 00:28:11,879
Speaker 1: is it like to have a home birth, what is

472
00:28:11,920 --> 00:28:13,240
Speaker 1: it like to have a hospital girth, What is it

473
00:28:13,280 --> 00:28:15,879
Speaker 1: like to birth in a birth center. What are my options?

474
00:28:15,920 --> 00:28:17,640
Speaker 1: Who are the people that are going to be there

475
00:28:17,720 --> 00:28:23,360
Speaker 1: to support um, you know, advocating for and and finding

476
00:28:23,760 --> 00:28:26,480
Speaker 1: a duela that can support you, whether that's virtually or

477
00:28:26,480 --> 00:28:27,679
Speaker 1: in person. There is a lot of people who are

478
00:28:27,680 --> 00:28:29,959
Speaker 1: doing virtual support and it's not expensive. So even if

479
00:28:29,960 --> 00:28:34,640
Speaker 1: you just want to have learning with someone, that's great, right, UM.

480
00:28:34,760 --> 00:28:38,719
Speaker 1: Then I would also add being able to read as

481
00:28:38,760 --> 00:28:41,360
Speaker 1: much as you can, watch videos, ask questions, go to

482
00:28:41,440 --> 00:28:44,920
Speaker 1: online courses, um, you know, so that you feel like

483
00:28:45,000 --> 00:28:48,200
Speaker 1: you have the data to ask questions. You know, be

484
00:28:48,280 --> 00:28:52,400
Speaker 1: an active participant in your care you know, UM, don't

485
00:28:52,440 --> 00:28:55,720
Speaker 1: let people talk down on you, but make sure that

486
00:28:55,800 --> 00:28:57,840
Speaker 1: you you speak up when you can. And if you

487
00:28:57,920 --> 00:29:00,240
Speaker 1: don't feel like you can in a moment right down

488
00:29:00,280 --> 00:29:02,400
Speaker 1: the thing and figure out like a response which you

489
00:29:02,440 --> 00:29:05,000
Speaker 1: can then talk back later, because not always in the

490
00:29:05,040 --> 00:29:08,120
Speaker 1: moment we feel you feel like you're prepared or confidence,

491
00:29:08,320 --> 00:29:11,160
Speaker 1: you could write down that thought, go back how to

492
00:29:11,200 --> 00:29:14,400
Speaker 1: say how you want to say it. Yeah. Lastly is

493
00:29:14,640 --> 00:29:18,480
Speaker 1: understand what informed consent really means, because I think we

494
00:29:18,560 --> 00:29:22,360
Speaker 1: have a really great understanding of consent um in spaces

495
00:29:22,360 --> 00:29:27,800
Speaker 1: what we're talking about sexual violence or transgressions and in

496
00:29:27,880 --> 00:29:32,920
Speaker 1: the hospital space, a lot of trauma occurs, and secondary

497
00:29:32,960 --> 00:29:37,160
Speaker 1: trauma occurs. People have instances of what would be if

498
00:29:37,160 --> 00:29:39,440
Speaker 1: it wasn't in the medical setting, it would be categorized

499
00:29:39,440 --> 00:29:44,360
Speaker 1: as sexual violence, right, And so we need to make

500
00:29:44,360 --> 00:29:46,880
Speaker 1: sure that people understand that they are in charge of

501
00:29:46,920 --> 00:29:49,600
Speaker 1: their bodies and that their bodies are a sacred site,

502
00:29:49,680 --> 00:29:54,760
Speaker 1: and that they that before anybody um begins a procedure

503
00:29:54,840 --> 00:29:57,520
Speaker 1: or a treatment, prior to doing so, they need to

504
00:29:57,560 --> 00:29:59,480
Speaker 1: make sure they have your consent. And in order to

505
00:29:59,480 --> 00:30:03,360
Speaker 1: do that, they have explain the nature of the procedure.

506
00:30:03,360 --> 00:30:05,880
Speaker 1: It has to be medically indicated. They have to tell

507
00:30:05,920 --> 00:30:08,080
Speaker 1: you the risk, the benefits, and they have to tell

508
00:30:08,120 --> 00:30:11,240
Speaker 1: you the alternatives, and you need to into it within yourself.

509
00:30:11,760 --> 00:30:13,720
Speaker 1: Is this a good choice for me? And ask for

510
00:30:13,800 --> 00:30:16,240
Speaker 1: time to talk to your birth team, asked for time

511
00:30:16,480 --> 00:30:19,520
Speaker 1: to maybe call someone before you make a decision, And

512
00:30:19,560 --> 00:30:22,320
Speaker 1: that really should be for like every single thing that comes.

513
00:30:22,680 --> 00:30:25,120
Speaker 1: I'm weighing out my options for every single thing they

514
00:30:25,160 --> 00:30:28,760
Speaker 1: bring to me, because otherwise, if things are happening to you,

515
00:30:28,880 --> 00:30:32,080
Speaker 1: which is mostly the case, white people talk about, well

516
00:30:32,120 --> 00:30:33,520
Speaker 1: they did this to me, they did that to me.

517
00:30:33,760 --> 00:30:36,640
Speaker 1: I don't really know why right, because it wasn't explained

518
00:30:37,160 --> 00:30:40,840
Speaker 1: guess what they can there's no real accountability. Um, Like,

519
00:30:40,880 --> 00:30:42,360
Speaker 1: if I was able to say, you know what, they

520
00:30:42,400 --> 00:30:44,600
Speaker 1: explained this, I said no, and they did it anyway,

521
00:30:45,960 --> 00:30:48,280
Speaker 1: that's a legal issue. But if if it's like if

522
00:30:48,360 --> 00:30:52,680
Speaker 1: I cooperated, that's confused all the time with consent. Uh,

523
00:30:52,720 --> 00:30:55,760
Speaker 1: they explained something to me, I feelt coerced. That's also

524
00:30:55,840 --> 00:30:59,640
Speaker 1: confused as consent, and it's not cooperation and coercient are

525
00:30:59,680 --> 00:31:02,960
Speaker 1: not sent And so just because you allowed for something

526
00:31:03,000 --> 00:31:04,640
Speaker 1: to happen does not mean that you can sent it

527
00:31:04,680 --> 00:31:06,720
Speaker 1: to it. And so a lot of people, especially even

528
00:31:06,720 --> 00:31:10,040
Speaker 1: in our doula classes, are processing their own birth experiences

529
00:31:10,080 --> 00:31:12,640
Speaker 1: as we go through this information and realizing that they

530
00:31:12,640 --> 00:31:15,760
Speaker 1: didn't consent to things and that they were harmed and

531
00:31:15,760 --> 00:31:18,520
Speaker 1: that they experienced what now they can locate as trauma.

532
00:31:19,000 --> 00:31:21,360
Speaker 1: And so it's important for us to be able to

533
00:31:21,960 --> 00:31:24,560
Speaker 1: like mitigate those moments and cut people off at the

534
00:31:24,600 --> 00:31:27,240
Speaker 1: past and say, wait a minute, no, it doesn't feel right.

535
00:31:27,520 --> 00:31:30,000
Speaker 1: I can articulate why it doesn't feel right, but I'm

536
00:31:30,000 --> 00:31:31,720
Speaker 1: going to stop you right there, and you need to

537
00:31:31,720 --> 00:31:34,200
Speaker 1: explain everything to me. Yeah, you know, I I had

538
00:31:35,120 --> 00:31:38,240
Speaker 1: this is so, this is also great. I think childbirth

539
00:31:38,360 --> 00:31:41,880
Speaker 1: was probably my probably my biggest fear in my life.

540
00:31:42,040 --> 00:31:45,160
Speaker 1: I was shown that horrifying miracle of birth video at

541
00:31:45,200 --> 00:31:48,240
Speaker 1: thirteen years old and some science class and watched the

542
00:31:48,280 --> 00:31:51,760
Speaker 1: baby fly out of a vagina not prepared for that

543
00:31:51,760 --> 00:31:55,360
Speaker 1: that day in class and just was scarred like entirely

544
00:31:55,400 --> 00:31:58,240
Speaker 1: and got pregnant. And I had friends being like, watch

545
00:31:58,360 --> 00:32:01,120
Speaker 1: birth videos on YouTube. There are been like orgasm ng

546
00:32:01,200 --> 00:32:03,720
Speaker 1: during birth, like you're gonna be It's gonna be amazing,

547
00:32:03,840 --> 00:32:05,760
Speaker 1: and I was like, I don't want to see it.

548
00:32:06,000 --> 00:32:08,680
Speaker 1: I'm so scared. And then something switched where I was like,

549
00:32:08,760 --> 00:32:10,840
Speaker 1: the only way I'm going to face this head on

550
00:32:11,040 --> 00:32:15,760
Speaker 1: is by being a fucking badass and researching and knowing

551
00:32:15,840 --> 00:32:18,280
Speaker 1: every single thing that could possibly happen to me in

552
00:32:18,320 --> 00:32:21,680
Speaker 1: that room. Hence Katie's crib, you guys, but like, I

553
00:32:21,800 --> 00:32:24,600
Speaker 1: know so much ship and they made fun of me

554
00:32:24,720 --> 00:32:26,880
Speaker 1: so much in my birth and labor because I asked

555
00:32:27,000 --> 00:32:30,760
Speaker 1: so many fucking questions, like so many questions and would

556
00:32:30,760 --> 00:32:37,280
Speaker 1: know what they were talking about. I just felt really empowered, strong, smart,

557
00:32:38,120 --> 00:32:42,600
Speaker 1: um in charge. I just felt very like this is

558
00:32:42,640 --> 00:32:45,600
Speaker 1: my experience, and it was really honestly, and I think

559
00:32:45,640 --> 00:32:48,400
Speaker 1: it was had a huge part of why I can

560
00:32:48,480 --> 00:32:50,240
Speaker 1: look back and say that my first birth was the

561
00:32:50,280 --> 00:32:53,560
Speaker 1: best day of my life. Before we end, I want

562
00:32:53,600 --> 00:32:55,840
Speaker 1: to just talk about your wellness practice. I took a

563
00:32:55,840 --> 00:32:58,040
Speaker 1: look at your globe pilots and the mentors and the

564
00:32:58,080 --> 00:33:00,440
Speaker 1: partners for Mama Glow which is amazing thing that there

565
00:33:00,440 --> 00:33:03,240
Speaker 1: are so many forms of health and wellness that are

566
00:33:03,440 --> 00:33:06,880
Speaker 1: represented on a team. There's Chinese herbalist, there's integrated pelvic

567
00:33:06,920 --> 00:33:09,520
Speaker 1: physical therapists, which I have gone to and changed my life.

568
00:33:09,560 --> 00:33:14,080
Speaker 1: There's interior designers. I mean, it's amazing you guys. So

569
00:33:14,600 --> 00:33:18,320
Speaker 1: tell me about like that sort of thing that Mama

570
00:33:18,360 --> 00:33:24,400
Speaker 1: glow um offers. Yeah. So I'm like from California, from Oakland,

571
00:33:24,560 --> 00:33:27,760
Speaker 1: So everything for me is like, I mean, I'm into

572
00:33:27,800 --> 00:33:31,240
Speaker 1: all of this stuff, right. It's it's crystals, it's astrology,

573
00:33:31,400 --> 00:33:34,280
Speaker 1: is acupuncture, it's reiki, Like all these things are like

574
00:33:34,320 --> 00:33:35,520
Speaker 1: I have been a part of my life and so

575
00:33:35,600 --> 00:33:38,120
Speaker 1: and also have been part of my journey as a parent,

576
00:33:38,360 --> 00:33:40,600
Speaker 1: And I feel like the healing arts are such a

577
00:33:41,240 --> 00:33:43,960
Speaker 1: big piece of of how we stay grounded in this

578
00:33:44,080 --> 00:33:48,280
Speaker 1: experience and certainly how I support myself as a practitioner

579
00:33:48,840 --> 00:33:51,720
Speaker 1: and so yeah, so we have people who are part

580
00:33:51,720 --> 00:33:55,560
Speaker 1: of our team as glow pilots who not only provide information,

581
00:33:56,440 --> 00:33:59,080
Speaker 1: are people that we work with on a client basis

582
00:33:59,200 --> 00:34:03,240
Speaker 1: that support our clience. We also have baby blessings and

583
00:34:03,280 --> 00:34:07,640
Speaker 1: some of these people are part of that. Yes, it

584
00:34:07,720 --> 00:34:11,240
Speaker 1: really depends, but but I would say that, um, mainly

585
00:34:11,320 --> 00:34:14,080
Speaker 1: it's for people to see that, yeah, it takes a village, right,

586
00:34:14,080 --> 00:34:16,000
Speaker 1: It takes a village for us to like you know,

587
00:34:16,200 --> 00:34:19,359
Speaker 1: move through this together and that we can all work

588
00:34:19,360 --> 00:34:23,520
Speaker 1: together to to help people achieve their best birth experience

589
00:34:23,600 --> 00:34:26,880
Speaker 1: and also you know, figure out how to like step

590
00:34:26,920 --> 00:34:30,400
Speaker 1: into a new parenthood of confidence. And so yeah, so

591
00:34:30,440 --> 00:34:33,240
Speaker 1: we have all kinds of content. There's always like resource

592
00:34:33,320 --> 00:34:36,880
Speaker 1: guides and there's always good stuff for people to to

593
00:34:37,040 --> 00:34:40,000
Speaker 1: tap into. But certainly if you are looking for a doula,

594
00:34:40,080 --> 00:34:41,400
Speaker 1: it's a really great place to go because we have

595
00:34:41,440 --> 00:34:44,040
Speaker 1: people all over the country, all over the world, all

596
00:34:44,080 --> 00:34:48,480
Speaker 1: six continents represented. If you need somebody, lathem right, like

597
00:34:48,680 --> 00:34:51,120
Speaker 1: you're like just changing the world. I can't thank you

598
00:34:51,239 --> 00:34:53,200
Speaker 1: enough for taking the time. And I know that you

599
00:34:53,280 --> 00:34:55,799
Speaker 1: went a lot of different directions with this conversation, but

600
00:34:55,840 --> 00:34:58,279
Speaker 1: you're such a wealth of knowledge that you've done this

601
00:34:58,360 --> 00:35:00,520
Speaker 1: work for so long and you've worked so closely with

602
00:35:00,560 --> 00:35:04,200
Speaker 1: pregnant women. Any last pieces of advice for mama's or

603
00:35:04,320 --> 00:35:09,080
Speaker 1: soon to be mama's, Yeah, I think that final advice

604
00:35:09,520 --> 00:35:15,360
Speaker 1: would be I would remind people that right now, um,

605
00:35:15,400 --> 00:35:19,239
Speaker 1: even though we're trying to sort of navigate some sense

606
00:35:19,280 --> 00:35:23,160
Speaker 1: of normalcy, things are not normal. And it's really okay

607
00:35:23,200 --> 00:35:29,000
Speaker 1: to live into what you're feeling around the uncertainty and

608
00:35:29,000 --> 00:35:32,400
Speaker 1: and know that it's okay that things aren't okay. And

609
00:35:32,600 --> 00:35:34,759
Speaker 1: what that does mean and what that does present as

610
00:35:34,760 --> 00:35:39,360
Speaker 1: an opportunity is for us to kind of revision what

611
00:35:39,440 --> 00:35:41,480
Speaker 1: our community can look like in a time like this.

612
00:35:41,760 --> 00:35:43,880
Speaker 1: How do we strengthen our sister's circle, How do we

613
00:35:43,880 --> 00:35:45,920
Speaker 1: make sure people can show up for us? And for

614
00:35:45,960 --> 00:35:49,360
Speaker 1: those of us who are you know, on opertility journey,

615
00:35:49,400 --> 00:35:52,280
Speaker 1: what does it look like to to create these supports

616
00:35:52,320 --> 00:35:55,279
Speaker 1: for ourselves and networks and communities so we can stay

617
00:35:55,280 --> 00:35:58,000
Speaker 1: in dialogue and and not feel like we're alone on

618
00:35:58,000 --> 00:36:01,280
Speaker 1: this journey. And then for those who are new parents,

619
00:36:01,600 --> 00:36:04,720
Speaker 1: you know, who haven't been visited and haven't had folks

620
00:36:04,760 --> 00:36:06,959
Speaker 1: dropping food off and making food for you or people

621
00:36:07,000 --> 00:36:08,680
Speaker 1: to come over and hold the babies. You can take

622
00:36:08,680 --> 00:36:12,480
Speaker 1: a shower, like what does it look like for you

623
00:36:12,560 --> 00:36:17,400
Speaker 1: now to design a life. You know that UM tries

624
00:36:17,440 --> 00:36:20,719
Speaker 1: to anchor into what this new normal is, So I

625
00:36:20,760 --> 00:36:22,680
Speaker 1: think it's really important for us to to kind of

626
00:36:22,719 --> 00:36:25,160
Speaker 1: mourn the loss of what we thought it could be

627
00:36:25,200 --> 00:36:28,040
Speaker 1: and what we probably have planned for, and and to

628
00:36:28,600 --> 00:36:31,200
Speaker 1: at the same time, you know, come up with a

629
00:36:31,280 --> 00:36:36,120
Speaker 1: plan for how we're going to feel UM supported in

630
00:36:36,160 --> 00:36:38,080
Speaker 1: this time, and we can reach out to those who

631
00:36:38,160 --> 00:36:40,239
Speaker 1: we know who are in this like period and make

632
00:36:40,280 --> 00:36:42,520
Speaker 1: sure they feel supported. Send them some food, send them

633
00:36:42,520 --> 00:36:45,800
Speaker 1: a bouquet of flowers like goor to some gift cards

634
00:36:45,840 --> 00:36:49,279
Speaker 1: for them, get a group text going UM, get a

635
00:36:49,640 --> 00:36:53,200
Speaker 1: get a zoom call, have like a check in at

636
00:36:53,200 --> 00:36:55,000
Speaker 1: certain points of the day where you know your low

637
00:36:55,080 --> 00:36:58,120
Speaker 1: points are happening, where somebody just calls you and spend

638
00:36:58,160 --> 00:37:00,600
Speaker 1: some time with you, but make sure you have supports

639
00:37:00,600 --> 00:37:04,280
Speaker 1: in place virtually and figure out how to move towards

640
00:37:04,320 --> 00:37:06,640
Speaker 1: them a way that is going to sustain you over

641
00:37:06,680 --> 00:37:08,600
Speaker 1: these next couple of months until we can go back

642
00:37:08,600 --> 00:37:12,520
Speaker 1: outside so beautiful with them. Thank you so much for

643
00:37:12,560 --> 00:37:15,080
Speaker 1: coming on Katie's Crib and you guys, you can follow

644
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Speaker 1: Latham Thomas on Instagram at glowmabon and her company's account

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Speaker 1: is at Mama glow oh and their website with all

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Speaker 1: of their incredible offerings is mama glow dot com. And

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Speaker 1: as Lathan noted, please support the Black Maternal Health mom

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Speaker 1: Nibus Act of To get involved, you can reach out

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Speaker 1: to your members of Congress, the House of Representatives, and

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Speaker 1: the Senate to make your voice heard about why this

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Speaker 1: issue matters to you. Coming up next week, You're not

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Speaker 1: gonna believe it. It is our last episode of season three.

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Speaker 1: I cannot believe it, and I'm gonna be talking with

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Speaker 1: actress Boss Lady, the chillist mom, no joke, the chillst mom.

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Speaker 1: I have ever met Shane Mitchell. You don't want to

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Speaker 1: miss it. Katie's Crib is a production of Shonda land

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Speaker 1: Audio in partnership with I Heart Radio. For more podcasts

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Speaker 1: from shannland Audio, visit the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts,

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Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. You can

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Speaker 1: never know until you try Ride