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Speaker 1: Carrie Rawson is back with me for what I consider

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Speaker 1: like a sidecar episode. There is so much coming out

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Speaker 1: regarding the Long Island serial killer that it is almost

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Speaker 1: impossible to keep up. It's almost impossible to verify what

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Speaker 1: is accurate and what is not. Carrie and I have

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Speaker 1: had some side conversations where, you know, she even asked, hey,

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Speaker 1: should I untweet that? Like, we don't even know what's

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Speaker 1: real what's not real. So the media came out and

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Speaker 1: said that law enforcement found a soundproof room. Then law

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Speaker 1: enforcement comes out and says it's not a soundproof room,

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Speaker 1: it's a vault. Well, the first question that popped into

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Speaker 1: my head is it in a vault soundproof? I mean,

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Speaker 1: if I get locked at the inside the vault at

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Speaker 1: the bank, ain't nobody gonna hear me hollering? Right? So

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Speaker 1: I wanted Carrie to come back because when you're talking

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Speaker 1: about the alleged killer's childhood home, there's nobody here that

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Speaker 1: doesn't know every inch of their childhood home. They were

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Speaker 1: hiding cigarettes from their parents, they might have hid liquor,

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Speaker 1: they might have hid magazines, they might have hid their diary, whatever.

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Speaker 1: So there's places that you know in your childhood home

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Speaker 1: where you could probably still have a little Heidi hole.

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Speaker 1: So Carrie, just jump on in here and tell me,

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Speaker 1: not the last few days, but even the last forty

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Speaker 1: five minutes, what has all gone through your mind with

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Speaker 1: the information that's coming out now about the excavation on

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Speaker 1: Low Island.

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Speaker 2: Well, on Sunday, we were watching things develop when we

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Speaker 2: saw the crime scene text the State Police. That looks

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Speaker 2: like a lot of them. Man, they're back there in

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Speaker 2: that backyard and somebody's got some drones up, so that's

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Speaker 2: getting us some informas. But like those guys are working hard.

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Speaker 2: They're moving like tools out of that shed, which is

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Speaker 2: something they had to do with my dad because my

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Speaker 2: dad had one big, huge shed and then that was

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Speaker 2: up on concrete blocks, and then he had an attached

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Speaker 2: shed and there was evidence of crimes or potentially linked

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Speaker 2: to crimes in both those sheds, and my dad was

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Speaker 2: a pack were at And so when I'm seeing them

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Speaker 2: like lay out those tools from Rex, it's just like

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Speaker 2: my father, you know, you know how most people maybe

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Speaker 2: would like have one shovel, Dad would maybe have tid

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Speaker 2: Like that's like what looks Rex looks like in Rex's

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Speaker 2: yard is small My father had like we had four

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Speaker 2: massive trees. We had a massive yard that took forever

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Speaker 2: to mow. We had a garden, we had a massive treehouse.

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Speaker 2: So when you're talking about Rex's yard, like all of

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Speaker 2: that's condensed there. And I mean if you look at

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Speaker 2: the photos, now some of them might not be public

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Speaker 2: in my father's case, but I've seen the evidence photos

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Speaker 2: of what they were hauling out of there, just boxes

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Speaker 2: of rope bindings. You look at the search warrant for

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Speaker 2: South Carolina for that truck, the Chevy Avalanche, it was

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Speaker 2: looking for bindings that were cut specifically, right, because mac

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Speaker 2: can tell us that, say somebody cut some sort of

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Speaker 2: rope or some sort of leather binding belt, anything, they

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Speaker 2: cut it to use it in a crime, We'll say

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Speaker 2: that they are a pacaret and keep that other end.

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Speaker 2: If they still have it, they can match that and

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Speaker 2: like match that crime.

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Speaker 1: If this is what you are doing and you are

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Speaker 1: a serial killer, those are the things that you're going

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Speaker 1: to have done ahead of time. You're going to have

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Speaker 1: your kill kit ready. So we already know they've gathered rope,

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Speaker 1: they've recovered a handcuff key. I mean, those are things

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Speaker 1: that are already out. We know that some of the

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Speaker 1: other things that we see them taken out of the house.

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Speaker 1: I mean there are large items, you know, is it

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Speaker 1: a dull crate? We don't know. Could it be possibly?

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Speaker 1: You know, the room that he constructed, and again he's

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Speaker 1: an architect. The amount of cement that he had to pour.

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Speaker 1: Is that room soundproof? I mean it would certainly be

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Speaker 1: sound proof compared to the kitchen.

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Speaker 2: Right and like with that room, and so the word

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Speaker 2: on the street is that his colleagues said that he

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Speaker 2: poured that cement. So there's got to be some sort

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Speaker 2: of work permits, right or city permits that you like,

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Speaker 2: crime scene people can poll, like law enforcement can poll

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Speaker 2: and find out like when was this place then, who

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Speaker 2: was overseeing it? And did any like inspections take place?

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Speaker 2: And then my guess is based on what we're seeing

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Speaker 2: from drone footage, it was built underneath that wooden deck

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Speaker 2: that he built that those guys pushed up and then

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Speaker 2: they brought in that baco. I don't even know how

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Speaker 2: they got that bacco in that in that backyard. So

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Speaker 2: they're digging there. I think it looks like they're digging

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Speaker 2: up what Rex put in underground. And this seems to

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Speaker 2: be some sort of sub section to the basement that

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Speaker 2: was already in the house that you get to from

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Speaker 2: like that cellar door. Because we were all wondering, well,

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Speaker 2: how big is that cellar, right, because we all said, well,

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Speaker 2: if it's got a gun vault for like three hundred guns.

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Speaker 2: But now I'm thinking he built some kind of vault

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Speaker 2: underneath the ground that wasn't normally with the original property.

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Speaker 2: Now if it sound if it's not soundproof, meaning say

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Speaker 2: he didn't put up soundproofing, it still sounds like it

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Speaker 2: would be quite soundproof, like underground and poured cement, So

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Speaker 2: who knows what's going on in there. And then when

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Speaker 2: you're talking about like hit kits, my dad had multiple

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Speaker 2: hit kits, handcuffs, bandanas, rope varying ties. He liked that

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Speaker 2: white really cheap like tent cord I don't even know,

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Speaker 2: like nylon cord. He had that everywhere all over. He

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Speaker 2: had these things. And just like Banni packs and backpacks.

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Speaker 2: He had him in our closet, he had him in

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Speaker 2: the car. He had stuff in like rubber made totes.

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Speaker 2: But then like if you were to open that rubber

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Speaker 2: may tote, like minus a handcuffs. Obviously, it looked like

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Speaker 2: a tornado kit, like ready to go if we had

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Speaker 2: had a tornado. And so some things that I had

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Speaker 2: just dismissed as like my dad like prepping for something

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Speaker 2: I dismissed. But he used like our old suitcases, like

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Speaker 2: we're old family suitcases. He kept bondagegare in there, and

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Speaker 2: he like took him to his hotel for parties. I mean,

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Speaker 2: there's like this pervasive sense to both of these guys

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Speaker 2: of using like what's around them, and then it just

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Speaker 2: looks like a suitcase sitting there, and then if it's locked,

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Speaker 2: like who's gonna bother with some old suitcase?

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Speaker 1: What he did for a living? If he had certain

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Speaker 1: tools like the carpenter's hammer, twine or rope or some

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Speaker 1: type of clamps, right, I mean, there's a lot of

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Speaker 1: things he could have that nobody would look twice at.

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Speaker 1: Being that he told everybody he was a duck hunter,

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Speaker 1: they may not look twice at the burlap. So there's

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Speaker 1: a lot of things that he could potentially hide in

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Speaker 1: plain sight. You're looking right at it and don't know

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Speaker 1: what it is, so you know, Israel keys, he had

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Speaker 1: like a cachet that he kept it had like a

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Speaker 1: tarp and a weapon and you know, gloves and all

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Speaker 1: that sort of stuff that he would bury and have

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Speaker 1: at the ready. So again, there's no telling what's in

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Speaker 1: that yard. It could be keepsakes, it could be trophies.

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Speaker 1: It could be that he burned items but everything didn't burn,

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Speaker 1: Like if he burned a belt, so to speak, the

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Speaker 1: belt buckal is not going to burn, so he buried it.

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Speaker 1: That's just an example I'm making up, but I'm saying

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Speaker 1: he could get rid of evidence, but if everything didn't burn,

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Speaker 1: he may just bury it.

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Speaker 2: I think too, it's really important to remember with these critters,

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Speaker 2: I mean, for lack of a better word, at this point,

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Speaker 2: I'm just calling these guys critters, right like like with

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Speaker 2: Rex and Dad, they're keepers, their keepsake people. Like to me,

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Speaker 2: they both are memento people. And so like my dad

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Speaker 2: liked souvenirs, and so he kept victims, driver's license, jewelry.

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Speaker 2: He considered those his prize possessions that he had taken

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Speaker 2: from them, and then he stored those. He built like

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Speaker 2: a false bottom thing underneath our floorboards and our hallway

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Speaker 2: underneath them, very heavy like cabinet that you wouldn't ever

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Speaker 2: pull all the way out, and if you did, it

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Speaker 2: would just look like wood. And he built that early

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Speaker 2: in the seventies and he was using that thing for

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Speaker 2: thirty some years, putting his prize possessions right there in

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Speaker 2: our hallway where we wrote out the tornados. I mean,

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Speaker 2: I lived in a three bedroom, one bathroom ranch home.

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Speaker 2: And he still got away with hiding this stuff. So

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Speaker 2: he kept clothing, we believe he kept like dog leashes,

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Speaker 2: dog collars, ropes, So my dad did get rid of

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Speaker 2: quite a bit of evidence. He would like toss stuff

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Speaker 2: in culverts, or he would burn stuff or drop stuff

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Speaker 2: in water. He had all these like and he had

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Speaker 2: hidi holes and stashes probably all over the state of Kansas.

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Speaker 2: And he kept maps where he kept stuff, and then

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Speaker 2: he was moving things around. I mean, you tweeted out

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Speaker 2: that these guys are like full time serial killers. It's

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Speaker 2: it's pretty insane the level of work that these guys

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Speaker 2: go to to maintain like what they're doing.

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Speaker 1: It's like their vocation, advocation every single part of their life.

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Speaker 1: This is what it's about. Because your dad, I mean,

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Speaker 1: he's you know, he kind of studied J Holmes, didn't

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Speaker 1: need the murder Castle.

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Speaker 2: Oh good God, that's like his favorite guy. And I like,

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Speaker 2: there's supposed to be this really great book on HH Holmes,

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Speaker 2: and I don't know if I'll ever be able to

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Speaker 2: stomach it. But like when you're talking about Rex possibly

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Speaker 2: having like a vault room, my dad would have loved that,

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Speaker 2: like he actually had. My dad had drafting and architectural

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Speaker 2: skills himself, and he loved to draw, and he drew

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Speaker 2: plans up to build an addition onto our house into

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Speaker 2: the backyard, and he was not even going to put

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Speaker 2: a basement in there. And my theory is that he

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Speaker 2: was probably going to build him some kind of Rex room.

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Speaker 2: That's what we're going to call it from now on,

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Speaker 2: a Rex room. I have a feeling my dad was

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Speaker 2: going to do that because he actually had built a

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Speaker 2: false back to our small shed. He had so we

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Speaker 2: have this dryer in our kitchen, and my mom didn't

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Speaker 2: like that the dryer was right next to the kitchen table,

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Speaker 2: and so my dad built a door for it so

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Speaker 2: that you could cover basically the dryer when you weren't

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Speaker 2: using it, and so it blended in like with the

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Speaker 2: wall of the wallpaper. And then when my dad built

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Speaker 2: that for her. He put in a false back in

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Speaker 2: the back of his own shed, and then he hid

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Speaker 2: his BTK binders, like stuff that would absolutely prove who

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Speaker 2: he was. He hid that stuff in that false spot.

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Speaker 2: And then when I was little, I was about three

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Speaker 2: or four, he was growing plants in there, like little seedlings,

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Speaker 2: and I was up on a ladder helping me and

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Speaker 2: grow the seedlings. And I saw these ADT binders when

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Speaker 2: I was like three or four, and I was like,

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Speaker 2: why you know, at three or four, you're just like, Okay,

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Speaker 2: that's more dad's crap. But like in hindsight, I literally

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Speaker 2: had my eyes on the BTK binders and I didn't

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Speaker 2: know it.

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Speaker 1: I think we're going to see maps and drawings and

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Speaker 1: journals and codes with REGs.

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Speaker 2: You agree, absolutely, And I think we're going to see

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Speaker 2: like specific special like draft type drawings of like ideas

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Speaker 2: of like torture chambers, possibly like my father was into

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Speaker 2: when we're talking about HH holmes, Like my father wanted

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Speaker 2: to convert some old barns into these like massive torture

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Speaker 2: chambers where he would keep victims alive. I'm concerned that

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Speaker 2: that's maybe what's going to come out here with Rex

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Speaker 2: I mean it's pure speculation. But if he was taking

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Speaker 2: them to his house and then had some sort of

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Speaker 2: soundproof vault, I mean, no, he has a vault. We

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Speaker 2: just don't know what exactly he was doing with it.

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Speaker 2: He maybe could have been keeping them alive for a while.

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Speaker 1: If you are into torture porn and you become a

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Speaker 1: serial killer, and that's part of your mo o, that's

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Speaker 1: part of what you get off on, you have to

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Speaker 1: have a place that's going to allow you to have

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Speaker 1: time with these victims. He can't do it at a

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Speaker 1: hotel or a motel, he can't do it in airbnb.

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Speaker 1: So his own home is the most logical place, especially

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Speaker 1: if we see the pattern that he does the murders

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Speaker 1: when his wife is out of the country.

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Speaker 2: Exactly, you have to have a like a quiet place,

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Speaker 2: and they like to take their time, and it takes

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Speaker 2: time to like basically BTK like buying a torture and kill.

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Speaker 1: And we talked briefly, just a side conversation about the

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Speaker 1: ground penetrating radar and the canines and leading you by

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Speaker 1: common sense. So again, just like we've seen it other scenes,

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Speaker 1: when you have a crude slab of concrete, you better

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Speaker 1: check that and that ground penetrating radar can do a

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Speaker 1: couple of things. Can show you where water lines and

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Speaker 1: electric lines are, and it can also show you if

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Speaker 1: something is encased down there before you start. Jack Cameron,

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Speaker 1: so to me again, cement is a clue, especially if

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Speaker 1: he hasn't done anything else to the outside of that house.

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Speaker 1: Then suddenly he puts down a big o slab a

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Speaker 1: semen and wants to build this deck.

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Speaker 2: My dad he built a big shed out of metal,

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Speaker 2: but he built it up on those stone cement pavers.

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Speaker 1: I want everybody to know the medical examiner's been on scene,

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Speaker 1: people using ground penetrating radar, k nines, obviously crime scene

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Speaker 1: investigators and detectives, but they have also had the crime

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Speaker 1: lab personnel out there. That tells you this is a

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Speaker 1: team effort. They are leaving nothing to chance. The people

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Speaker 1: that do the job are own scene to take that

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Speaker 1: evidence and immediately handle it one time.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm really proud of them, seeing how meticulous and

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Speaker 2: how much manpower, female power they're putting into this. I'm

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Speaker 2: really proud of everybody for just stepping up. Agencies working together,

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Speaker 2: massive man hours and we've got the technology and so

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Speaker 2: We've got the time. There's no rush, there's no reason

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Speaker 2: to just give this house back and clear it. Like,

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Speaker 2: just take all the time you need, hold it, you know,

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Speaker 2: for as long as you need to. I mean, if

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Speaker 2: you got to board that thing up and seal it up,

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Speaker 2: like I don't hope for you do that for the trial.

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Speaker 2: Like if you know for sure that is an actual

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Speaker 2: crime scene and not just prep of crime scene or

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Speaker 2: post crime scene, then I think you just board that

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Speaker 2: thing up and seal it up and keep it until

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Speaker 2: we know what we need for sure.

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Speaker 1: It looks to me like the Long Island serial killer

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Speaker 1: had his victims come to him. If you're using six

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Speaker 1: workers as your victim, then that pool of people comes

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Speaker 1: to you. Rex had a suspect pool that was always full,

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Speaker 1: was always at the ready. If he called six sex

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Speaker 1: workers and five said no, he only needs one. Have

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Speaker 1: you heard the lady that has come out and said

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Speaker 1: that he just creeped around and she wouldn't get in

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Speaker 1: the car.

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Speaker 2: I need to listen to some of that. I mean

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Speaker 2: I've heard of like one that's maybe said that she

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Speaker 2: went to dinner with him. There's just there's like some

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Speaker 2: that have come out. I'm just kind of confused, Like,

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Speaker 2: like I if he was known in those sex worker communities,

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Speaker 2: even as far as New Jersey as being this massive

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Speaker 2: man that was not somebody they wanted to work with,

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Speaker 2: it makes me wonder, like, what what did we all miss?

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Speaker 1: Well, I can tell you this, the victims that I

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Speaker 1: have worked with that were sex workers, the things that

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Speaker 1: they are asked to do, the things that they are

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Speaker 1: paid to do, is some of the most bizarre, cruel

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Speaker 1: and twisted fetishes and desires and fantasies you could imagine

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Speaker 1: if you just google the grossest fetishes are the most

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Speaker 1: unusual fetishes, are the most harmful fetishes. It'll blow your mind.

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Speaker 1: So if you've got somebody that does that for a

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Speaker 1: living and this guy freaked her out, that tells you

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Speaker 1: the monster you're dealing with.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a good point. On the flip side, like

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Speaker 2: knowing my father, these guys are so banal and normal,

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Speaker 2: acting almost boring, like they kind of just like are

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Speaker 2: in the background. You don't really notice them. They're very unassuming,

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Speaker 2: usually pretty decently mild mannered, where they can flip on

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Speaker 2: a switch. You wouldn't necessarily be triggered by them. But

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Speaker 2: like I would say, somebody in that sort of community

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Speaker 2: would have probably pretty good instincts about like who would

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Speaker 2: be safe as a john and who would not. And

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Speaker 2: so you're right, if it's like sending those flags, that's

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Speaker 2: a big sign.

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Speaker 1: Here we are. We've got soundproof rooms, maybe we've got vaults,

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Speaker 1: we've got thick walled cement additions, we've got excavating where

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Speaker 1: they're pulling out different items that we don't know what

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Speaker 1: they are yet, but they are certainly finding things. They've

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Speaker 1: used ground penetrate and radar, canines and a batc. So

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Speaker 1: this is a full court press like we've never seen.

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Speaker 2: You know, with this developing so quickly, we just need

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Speaker 2: to we need to wait and see what's coming out.

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Speaker 2: We need to be patient and understand that you know,

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Speaker 2: even we might be putting out some theories there that

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Speaker 2: we might have to untweet, like we're all just we're

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Speaker 2: all in this together, and we just need to be

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Speaker 2: patient with law enforcement and let them work and see

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Speaker 2: what's going to develop and hopefully, like I know, it

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Speaker 2: seems like it's really hard to pick a bright side here,

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Speaker 2: but honestly, like, okay, some he's caught, he's not going

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Speaker 2: to hurt anybody else. So let's get some cases is cleared.

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Speaker 2: Let's like let's clear any case possible that belongs to

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Speaker 2: this man, because we could clear a whole bunch and

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Speaker 2: like get answers to families. It's not gonna bringing the

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Speaker 2: victims back, but like on the positive side, I think

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Speaker 2: that is a big positive. It's just it's just a

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Speaker 2: hard one to focus on.

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Speaker 1: I'm Cheryl McCollum and this is own seven