WEBVTT - Trump Vows 200% Tariff on EU Wine, Escalating Trade Tensions 0:00:02.759 --> 0:00:10.560 Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news. You're listening to the 0:00:10.560 --> 0:00:14.560 Bloomberg Intelligence Podcast. Catch us live weekdays at ten am 0:00:14.600 --> 0:00:17.840 Eastern on Apple, Cocklay and Android Auto with the Bloomberg 0:00:17.880 --> 0:00:21.040 Business App. Listen on demand wherever you get your podcasts, 0:00:21.320 --> 0:00:23.480 or watch us live on YouTube. 0:00:24.000 --> 0:00:25.680 The news of the day that sort of wow the 0:00:25.720 --> 0:00:28.200 market here is Trump is now vowing a two hundred 0:00:28.240 --> 0:00:31.880 percent tariff on EU wine, escalating trade tensions. 0:00:31.880 --> 0:00:32.720 Full disclosure. 0:00:33.200 --> 0:00:35.760 I really like champagne, so I just want to, like, 0:00:35.760 --> 0:00:37.920 I have I have a horse in this race. 0:00:38.000 --> 0:00:40.839 Is it a champagne versus prosecco bias or you can 0:00:40.880 --> 0:00:41.440 go either way. 0:00:41.800 --> 0:00:43.080 I totally go either way. 0:00:43.159 --> 0:00:43.440 Okay. 0:00:43.520 --> 0:00:45.800 I usually go prosecco first because it's a little cheaper. 0:00:45.960 --> 0:00:47.800 Okay, but I do love my champagne. 0:00:47.800 --> 0:00:49.600 It's really champagne rose that's really high in. 0:00:49.720 --> 0:00:54.120 Does any of this surprise you, pame taste? Yes, exactly 0:00:54.360 --> 0:00:55.200 by discount? 0:00:55.440 --> 0:00:56.960 I would good question. 0:00:57.320 --> 0:00:59.360 I used to when I drank more, That's for sure. 0:00:59.440 --> 0:00:59.760 All right. 0:01:00.040 --> 0:01:03.480 Joining us now as Albertina Ursoli, a European Transport and 0:01:03.640 --> 0:01:07.720 Industrials reporter, walk us through the reaction on the ground 0:01:07.760 --> 0:01:09.240 when all of this unfolded this morning. 0:01:12.400 --> 0:01:16.680 Look, it's been an intense ten days. It's about champagne, 0:01:16.680 --> 0:01:23.080 it's about wine, it's about retaliatory retaliation measure us EU. 0:01:23.240 --> 0:01:26.840 I covered the automotive industry, I've covered the drinks, champagne, 0:01:26.959 --> 0:01:30.040 wine industry, Cognac. You forgot Cognac while you were talking 0:01:30.160 --> 0:01:35.399 earlier on You know, it's a vicious circle here. Tariffs 0:01:35.440 --> 0:01:38.479 announced retaliatory measures. I mean, we're still waiting to get 0:01:38.480 --> 0:01:42.119 a clear sense from France because France here is clearly targeted. 0:01:43.040 --> 0:01:47.680 And as soon as the president US president posted on 0:01:47.760 --> 0:01:51.880 social media about the two hundred percent tariff on EU 0:01:51.920 --> 0:01:55.200 wines and champagne, you know, you immediately saw a knee 0:01:55.280 --> 0:01:58.840 jerk reaction in the market. Elvemash the owner of brands 0:01:58.880 --> 0:02:02.840 such as Vito and You're, but also the group also 0:02:02.920 --> 0:02:08.840 has a wine and spirits business. The shares declined the 0:02:08.880 --> 0:02:13.119 same thing for cognac maker Remi Quantroux Compari. I'm sure 0:02:13.160 --> 0:02:17.000 you're wellware with the name Campari, Dowd Campari, the company, 0:02:18.360 --> 0:02:22.399 spirits maker Pernurrica. You know, these are big names. I mean, 0:02:22.800 --> 0:02:26.600 it's interesting because the spirits industry has been the focus 0:02:26.600 --> 0:02:30.520 of trade tensions before, they're never spared. What is a 0:02:30.560 --> 0:02:34.400 bit newer here is uh, the attack I would say 0:02:34.520 --> 0:02:40.040 on the auto's industry. The healthcare industry is wondering what's 0:02:40.080 --> 0:02:43.840 going to happen to them, you know, it's it's quite intense. 0:02:43.880 --> 0:02:47.919 And retailers as well, of course, also wondering what the 0:02:48.280 --> 0:02:54.160 implications will be. So it's unlike previous trade tensions I 0:02:54.200 --> 0:02:57.920 would say linked to tariffs, you know, the previous term 0:02:58.400 --> 0:03:01.120 of Trump. I think that the scope here is much 0:03:01.120 --> 0:03:05.720 bigger and really having widespread implications on various businesses and 0:03:05.760 --> 0:03:06.800 of course on markets. 0:03:06.960 --> 0:03:07.720 Well, I don't know about you. 0:03:07.720 --> 0:03:09.000 I'm going to when I get home today, I'm going 0:03:09.000 --> 0:03:10.800 to go over to the wine cellar and stock up 0:03:10.800 --> 0:03:12.560 on my barberusco before they slap. 0:03:12.639 --> 0:03:15.960 Oh right, that's your jam, that's my Jamnews drink. 0:03:16.280 --> 0:03:19.600 There's an American alternative to cod rone, the French wine. 0:03:19.760 --> 0:03:21.320 It's called goats do Rome. 0:03:24.000 --> 0:03:26.680 That's actually awesome, Abertina, And I know you're based in 0:03:26.680 --> 0:03:29.000 our Paris bureau. I'd love to get your sense of 0:03:29.080 --> 0:03:31.560 kind of help people on the street are thinking about this. 0:03:31.680 --> 0:03:36.720 For example, in Canada, people are up in arms about this. 0:03:36.800 --> 0:03:39.560 You see it all across social media. This has gotten personal. 0:03:40.360 --> 0:03:43.200 How are the folks in Europe thinking about this brewing 0:03:43.280 --> 0:03:43.960 trade war here? 0:03:46.400 --> 0:03:50.400 Look, I would say that in terms of the drinks, 0:03:50.480 --> 0:03:52.760 it's a bit early days to know what's happening on 0:03:52.800 --> 0:03:54.960 the street. But I can tell you that we've been 0:03:55.000 --> 0:04:00.240 tracking the automobile industry very closely, and it's not only 0:04:00.280 --> 0:04:03.400 linked to tariffs, but I'm sure that you've seen the 0:04:03.440 --> 0:04:06.160 same in the US. In California in particular, there's a 0:04:06.200 --> 0:04:11.360 lot of angst towards Tesla cars. Tesla you know, sales 0:04:11.400 --> 0:04:14.600 and registrations have gone down in Europe in Paris and 0:04:14.680 --> 0:04:18.880 France as well, and there's been attacks on Tesla car 0:04:19.000 --> 0:04:23.680 is actually you know, put on fire or or destroyed 0:04:23.680 --> 0:04:28.320 Tesla cars. So there are implications, you know. I don't 0:04:28.360 --> 0:04:33.880 know if we will see larger impacts against US products. 0:04:33.960 --> 0:04:36.320 I think it's a bit early for that. But I 0:04:36.320 --> 0:04:38.760 can tell you that there's a lot of soul searching 0:04:38.839 --> 0:04:43.600 going on at c suite level with CEOs who are 0:04:43.640 --> 0:04:47.960 trying to plan around what, you know, how they can 0:04:48.320 --> 0:04:52.479 go about exactly doing some planning for these tarrists. How 0:04:52.560 --> 0:04:56.120 long will these tarifs last and will they really be 0:04:56.160 --> 0:04:58.680 applied or not, because I think that the main sense, 0:04:58.760 --> 0:05:01.560 but maybe among the public as well, was that during 0:05:01.600 --> 0:05:03.719 Trump won there was a lot of talk but not 0:05:03.760 --> 0:05:05.480 a lot of a lot of action. And I think 0:05:05.520 --> 0:05:09.200 that even before Trump took off, as you know, there 0:05:09.240 --> 0:05:12.120 was a sense that it was just a negotiating strategy 0:05:12.240 --> 0:05:15.000 to you know, call for tariffs and threaten tariffs and 0:05:15.360 --> 0:05:18.440 then not apply them. I mean, you know, two nights 0:05:18.440 --> 0:05:22.000 ago we saw here in Europe the metal and aluminum 0:05:22.480 --> 0:05:26.279 tariffs taking effect. So it's not only talk this time around. 0:05:26.320 --> 0:05:29.280 And I think this still needs to sink in. And 0:05:29.360 --> 0:05:32.080 of course then there is the observation of how our 0:05:32.120 --> 0:05:35.640 markets reacting and this will this hold back Trump a 0:05:35.640 --> 0:05:38.120 bit and his administration. But I think that there's more 0:05:38.200 --> 0:05:40.000 question marks than answers today. 0:05:40.080 --> 0:05:42.200 All right, Abertena, thank you so much. We really appreciate 0:05:42.240 --> 0:05:46.679 aberteena Torsoli, European transport and industrials reporter for Bloomberg News, 0:05:47.320 --> 0:05:49.560 reporting in from our Paris studio. 0:05:49.640 --> 0:05:54.680 Time you're listening to the Bloomberg Intelligence Podcast. Catch us 0:05:54.720 --> 0:05:57.760 live weekdays at ten a m Eastern on Applecarplay and 0:05:57.760 --> 0:06:01.479 Android Otto with the Bloomberg Business Listen on demand wherever 0:06:01.520 --> 0:06:04.640 you get your podcasts or watch us live on YouTube. 0:06:05.760 --> 0:06:07.440 Speaking of course, of my guests that I had at 0:06:07.440 --> 0:06:10.680 it's Sarah Week. It's a global SMP Global Energy conference 0:06:10.680 --> 0:06:12.320 in Houston, Texas, and I talk to a lot of 0:06:12.360 --> 0:06:14.760 the power players. Now, if you're a data center, that's 0:06:14.760 --> 0:06:17.000 who you're talking to. Are those power players? 0:06:17.080 --> 0:06:17.240 Right? 0:06:17.520 --> 0:06:19.599 There's a narrative on a couple different fronts. One is 0:06:19.600 --> 0:06:23.080 that you have the hyperscalers that are very worried about 0:06:23.080 --> 0:06:26.040 being too long power, that they spend too much money 0:06:26.040 --> 0:06:28.080 buying power that they eventually don't need. 0:06:28.400 --> 0:06:29.400 So there is a narrative that. 0:06:29.400 --> 0:06:31.559 They're actually a little skittish on going out and getting 0:06:31.560 --> 0:06:32.080 these deals. 0:06:32.240 --> 0:06:33.880 The other narrative is that no they're not. 0:06:34.120 --> 0:06:36.720 They're just getting them from certain companies that have already 0:06:36.760 --> 0:06:40.080 executed on these kind of power arrangements, but nonetheless like 0:06:40.120 --> 0:06:42.080 show me the money, like where are the deals, where 0:06:42.120 --> 0:06:43.960 the checks being signed? How do they work out? Like 0:06:44.000 --> 0:06:47.640 a Microsoft and Constellation Energy. So to this exact point, 0:06:47.720 --> 0:06:51.239 I was able to speak with Energy Energy CEO Larry Coben. 0:06:51.279 --> 0:06:54.920 He's been in this industry for decades and decades and decades. 0:06:54.960 --> 0:06:57.279 It's one of the stocks along with Constellation and Vistra 0:06:57.400 --> 0:06:59.920 that moves like an AI stock because they're the ones 0:07:00.520 --> 0:07:03.560 that power the environment. And I asked him first if 0:07:03.600 --> 0:07:06.200 the rising power growth demand that we've seen is actually 0:07:06.240 --> 0:07:08.200 been driven by this power. 0:07:07.960 --> 0:07:10.720 Demand and AI no, I think it's a lot of things. 0:07:10.760 --> 0:07:15.000 It's also on shoring of manufacturing. For example, here in Texas, 0:07:15.000 --> 0:07:17.920 there's a one gig Samsung plant that's going to be 0:07:18.000 --> 0:07:20.800 opened in a couple of years. It's the Internet of things, 0:07:20.840 --> 0:07:24.480 it's smart homes, people are just it's electric cars. People 0:07:24.560 --> 0:07:28.360 are just using more electricity in ways that they never 0:07:28.440 --> 0:07:31.280 did before. And as a result of that, that's part 0:07:31.320 --> 0:07:33.960 of the demand cycle. Obviously, data centers are a big 0:07:33.960 --> 0:07:36.400 part of it, but data centers aside, all of the 0:07:36.400 --> 0:07:40.080 people who build data centers also are involved with cloud 0:07:40.520 --> 0:07:42.960 and a whole slew of other services search that we 0:07:43.040 --> 0:07:45.840 don't think about because we've had them for so long, 0:07:46.040 --> 0:07:48.720 but growth for those is increasing every. 0:07:48.520 --> 0:07:49.160 Bit as much. 0:07:49.840 --> 0:07:52.360 And you guys are one of the largest independent power 0:07:52.360 --> 0:07:54.920 producers in the United States, right, so you can really 0:07:54.920 --> 0:07:58.520 take advantage of this. Where is the biggest demand for 0:07:58.600 --> 0:08:00.640 what kind of power? Give me some insights into the 0:08:00.720 --> 0:08:02.120 conversations you're having right now. 0:08:02.160 --> 0:08:02.400 Sure. 0:08:02.520 --> 0:08:05.520 I think, you know, competitive markets, the two biggest ones 0:08:05.560 --> 0:08:10.840 would be Texas and PJAM in the northeast. Texas is 0:08:10.880 --> 0:08:13.000 a primary focus for us that we do have a 0:08:13.040 --> 0:08:16.800 strong PJAM presence. One of the things we like about 0:08:16.800 --> 0:08:20.920 Texas is it has a friendlier permitting environment and it 0:08:21.000 --> 0:08:23.680 has one public Utilities Commission. 0:08:23.200 --> 0:08:23.960 And one governor. 0:08:24.480 --> 0:08:27.760 Urkatt has thirteen states in it plus the District of Columbia. 0:08:27.840 --> 0:08:32.160 So that's fourteen commissions, fourteen governor like people, and furk 0:08:32.240 --> 0:08:35.760 which doesn't have any jurisdiction here. So but I think 0:08:35.800 --> 0:08:38.400 you're going to see data centers in all of these places, 0:08:38.440 --> 0:08:41.240 and every and in other places where economic growth is 0:08:41.280 --> 0:08:43.360 going on. It's not going to be limited, but I 0:08:43.360 --> 0:08:44.920 think Texas is going to be first. 0:08:45.360 --> 0:08:47.320 Do you think that the hyperscale or hype about how 0:08:47.400 --> 0:08:49.640 much they're going to spend on power demand is real 0:08:50.400 --> 0:08:50.920 fall short? 0:08:51.360 --> 0:08:54.360 I think yes. I mean it won't fall It will 0:08:54.360 --> 0:08:56.240 not fall short. It may even go up. 0:08:56.360 --> 0:08:56.640 Okay. 0:08:56.800 --> 0:08:58.360 And the reason I think that is, you know, it's 0:08:58.360 --> 0:09:01.640 interesting after Deep Seek, every was super concerned about that, 0:09:02.000 --> 0:09:04.360 and then three of the hyperscalers came out and essentially 0:09:04.440 --> 0:09:08.439 doubled their capital commitments. Now if they actually, after looking 0:09:08.440 --> 0:09:10.800 at deepseek, decide it's going to be twice as much, 0:09:11.400 --> 0:09:13.280 then that gives me a great deal of comfort. 0:09:13.440 --> 0:09:15.080 The power demand is going to be there. 0:09:15.520 --> 0:09:18.240 And you know, I know everybody's talking about Gevins paradox 0:09:18.240 --> 0:09:20.360 because everyone has now googled it for the first time. 0:09:20.400 --> 0:09:22.719 I'm actually old enough to remember what it was originally. 0:09:23.320 --> 0:09:26.160 But you know, I think people will start using this 0:09:26.200 --> 0:09:28.160 more and more. I already see it. In our business, 0:09:28.520 --> 0:09:33.320 we were using enormous amounts of AI and customer service 0:09:33.320 --> 0:09:35.079 and we're only just scratching the surface. 0:09:35.440 --> 0:09:38.280 Speaking of you're going to be developing five point four 0:09:38.320 --> 0:09:41.640 gigawatts by twenty thirty two, right, how much of that 0:09:41.760 --> 0:09:43.640 is going to be fully contracted and how much of 0:09:43.640 --> 0:09:45.120 that will be more merchant spot price. 0:09:45.559 --> 0:09:46.320 You know, we have. 0:09:47.760 --> 0:09:50.959 One point five gigs that is shovel ready that will 0:09:51.080 --> 0:09:53.199 probably go Most of that will go directly into the 0:09:53.280 --> 0:09:56.800 Texas market. Okay, anything we build beyond that, I would 0:09:56.840 --> 0:10:00.520 anticipate would be fully contracted for related either to a 0:10:00.600 --> 0:10:02.120 data center or another kind. 0:10:02.000 --> 0:10:03.760 Of large user along the way. 0:10:04.880 --> 0:10:07.600 We are not in the business of taking merchant risks 0:10:07.640 --> 0:10:11.440 some of the other folks are. We actually like to 0:10:11.480 --> 0:10:14.520 protect our downside and give ourselves a lot of optionality 0:10:14.559 --> 0:10:16.880 to the upside so that we don't have to care 0:10:16.920 --> 0:10:19.720 whether the growth is two percent or ten percent. Both 0:10:19.760 --> 0:10:21.600 of those are ginormous for us. 0:10:21.800 --> 0:10:23.719 So what kind of pricing are we talking about for 0:10:23.840 --> 0:10:25.040 a gas fire plant, for. 0:10:25.120 --> 0:10:27.640 Renewable for other power? Like, what does it look like 0:10:27.720 --> 0:10:28.040 right now? 0:10:28.080 --> 0:10:30.839 I mean gas fired plants. We think there can be 0:10:30.880 --> 0:10:34.040 done for fifteen hundred to two thousand a kW installed. 0:10:34.520 --> 0:10:36.560 The ones that are shovel ready beuse we started on 0:10:36.640 --> 0:10:38.520 them five years ago, will be much less. 0:10:39.000 --> 0:10:40.240 But if you're not in the. 0:10:40.200 --> 0:10:42.560 Business actively doing it, you're going to have a hard 0:10:42.600 --> 0:10:46.360 time hitting the top end of the range. Renewable pricing 0:10:46.440 --> 0:10:50.120 hasn't changed dramatically. It's just that the load curve is 0:10:50.200 --> 0:10:53.440 changing as people need. There's more twenty four to seven 0:10:53.559 --> 0:10:56.720 power use coming in. And you know, sun doesn't shine 0:10:56.760 --> 0:10:58.360 at night, wind doesn't always blow. 0:10:58.720 --> 0:11:00.560 But renewable aren't dead. 0:11:01.000 --> 0:11:05.600 They're going to be sure, yes, actually I am sure, okay, 0:11:06.320 --> 0:11:10.040 because there's still a place for them when they're working 0:11:10.360 --> 0:11:13.760 in conjunction with gas plants, I mean part of our portfolio. 0:11:13.920 --> 0:11:17.200 Now we actually shut off our fossil fuel plants during 0:11:17.200 --> 0:11:18.679 the day when there's a lot of salta in win 0:11:18.760 --> 0:11:21.360 in Texas. We buy from the grid their power and 0:11:21.400 --> 0:11:24.800 sell it to our customers, generating it ourselves. Those options 0:11:24.800 --> 0:11:27.840 are still going to be available, at least in competitive markets. 0:11:27.880 --> 0:11:31.080 Well, speaking of your renewable unit is thirty percent of 0:11:31.080 --> 0:11:33.319 your annual earnings right and it's twenty percent of the 0:11:33.360 --> 0:11:35.280 renewable market share here in the US. 0:11:35.520 --> 0:11:37.280 How much do you think that can grow for you? 0:11:38.040 --> 0:11:42.920 I are renewable. You know, we generally actually contract for 0:11:43.000 --> 0:11:46.280 renewables rather than own them. It's a strange thing because 0:11:46.280 --> 0:11:49.520 we own two coal plants. Everyone else gets cheaper renewable 0:11:49.600 --> 0:11:52.120 capital than we do, even though we're a big company 0:11:52.160 --> 0:11:54.640 and quite good at this, and as a result, what 0:11:54.679 --> 0:11:58.080 we generally do is contract for that power from other developers. 0:11:58.400 --> 0:12:01.280 Right now, we've got two gigs and we're probably going 0:12:01.320 --> 0:12:04.320 to have a solicitation for more going forward. So I 0:12:04.360 --> 0:12:07.040 still see it as an integral part of our strategy, 0:12:07.280 --> 0:12:09.160 and a lot of them also will be driven by 0:12:09.160 --> 0:12:11.640 what the customers want. So the end of the day, 0:12:11.720 --> 0:12:15.199 we are in the customer service business, not the electricity business. 0:12:15.600 --> 0:12:18.320 So it's our job to sell you the kind of 0:12:18.360 --> 0:12:22.480 electrons that you want in terms of you know, time, place. 0:12:22.400 --> 0:12:25.040 And fuel and fuel generation. So if you. 0:12:25.040 --> 0:12:29.040 Want green electrons, decarbonized electrons, we will have them and 0:12:29.080 --> 0:12:30.000 we will sell them to you. 0:12:30.760 --> 0:12:31.120 Thank you. 0:12:32.520 --> 0:12:36.960 In terms of in terms of the actual agreements, how 0:12:37.040 --> 0:12:39.640 many agreements are you talking about? That's like, hey, we're 0:12:39.640 --> 0:12:42.839 going to sign like yeah, yeah, well we like your electricity, 0:12:42.840 --> 0:12:44.920 will sign in versus like firm demand. 0:12:45.040 --> 0:12:45.880 Here's your paycheck. 0:12:47.200 --> 0:12:48.680 You know we do this every day. 0:12:49.040 --> 0:12:52.160 We actually supply power already to every one of the hyperscalers. 0:12:52.559 --> 0:12:56.280 We have the second largest commercial CNI electricity book in 0:12:56.320 --> 0:12:58.880 the country and the largest natural gas one. So we 0:12:58.960 --> 0:13:00.679 sign those kinds of arrange when some of them are 0:13:00.720 --> 0:13:03.200 short terms, some of them are long term. I think 0:13:03.240 --> 0:13:06.320 the new data center ones will all be at least 0:13:06.400 --> 0:13:09.360 ten and probably closer to twenty years. ABA is we 0:13:09.400 --> 0:13:11.800 won't want to dedicate our site to something that's less 0:13:11.800 --> 0:13:14.160 than that. B. We won't want to build a dedicated 0:13:14.200 --> 0:13:16.520 power plant for less than that. And see, if you're 0:13:16.559 --> 0:13:18.679 going to pay all that money for those chips and 0:13:18.720 --> 0:13:21.200 to build a data center, which actually costs more than 0:13:21.240 --> 0:13:25.000 a power plant, you're going to want that kind of stability. 0:13:24.360 --> 0:13:25.960 For an extended period of time. 0:13:26.440 --> 0:13:28.079 So I think a lot of those are going to 0:13:28.120 --> 0:13:32.200 be fixed price deals off market with power scale. They 0:13:32.200 --> 0:13:34.520 will still be in front of the meter because people 0:13:34.520 --> 0:13:37.040 will want to be connected to the grid, but they 0:13:37.040 --> 0:13:39.240 will definitely be long term fixed contracts. 0:13:39.280 --> 0:13:40.959 How soon are you're signing more of those. 0:13:43.400 --> 0:13:47.040 Stay tuned pair question? You know, my next earning is 0:13:47.120 --> 0:13:49.680 call is may. It will not be then, okay, but 0:13:50.200 --> 0:13:52.520 you know we're working on these as fast as we 0:13:52.640 --> 0:13:56.320 possibly can. They're complicated. People, you know, think electricity is 0:13:56.400 --> 0:14:00.600 just like flicking a switch. It's super complicated. But we 0:14:00.640 --> 0:14:05.319 are making substantial progress towards some very interesting transactions. Talking 0:14:05.360 --> 0:14:08.200 both to hyper scalers and to developers were I let. 0:14:08.080 --> 0:14:11.120 You go though. What makes it complicated? Is it the pricing? 0:14:11.360 --> 0:14:13.600 Is it? How to structure the deal? 0:14:13.760 --> 0:14:15.920 Like? Is your power going to the grid and then 0:14:16.040 --> 0:14:17.480 selling back to the hyper scale? 0:14:17.480 --> 0:14:17.560 Like? 0:14:17.640 --> 0:14:18.640 What makes it so hard? 0:14:18.760 --> 0:14:22.640 You need interconnection agreement, you need a construction agreement, you 0:14:22.680 --> 0:14:25.640 need a turbine agreement. Now you know, we have all 0:14:25.680 --> 0:14:27.960 of these in place generically, but they all need to 0:14:28.000 --> 0:14:31.320 be site specific. You need to decide how big a 0:14:31.440 --> 0:14:34.080 data center you want to put on the site. How 0:14:34.120 --> 0:14:36.240 fast are you going to grow that data center? So 0:14:36.560 --> 0:14:38.280 are you going to start at two hundred megs and 0:14:38.320 --> 0:14:39.800 go up two hundred a year? Do you want to 0:14:39.840 --> 0:14:43.000 start at a gig? So what makes it complicated is 0:14:43.040 --> 0:14:46.320 putting all of those pieces together, and what people forget 0:14:46.400 --> 0:14:49.000 is actually for this type of data center is new, 0:14:49.840 --> 0:14:52.840 unlike existing data centers where people have done lots of them. 0:14:53.040 --> 0:14:55.800 There aren't a lot of AI data centers out there yet. 0:14:56.200 --> 0:15:00.000 But it's complicated, but so is general power plant developed 0:15:00.120 --> 0:15:02.760 and all the permitting and those things. So it's nothing 0:15:02.800 --> 0:15:04.960 that we're worried about. It's something we actually think we're 0:15:05.000 --> 0:15:06.120 pretty good at. 0:15:06.280 --> 0:15:08.920 Buth Sailors are willing to put down that money. 0:15:09.560 --> 0:15:12.280 You're showing up knocking on your door. They're there, They're there, Okay, 0:15:12.320 --> 0:15:12.800 they're there. 0:15:12.960 --> 0:15:15.680 We're there, and you know, because of the agreements we 0:15:15.680 --> 0:15:18.640 announced last week, the turbines and the contractors are there. 0:15:19.600 --> 0:15:24.600 That was Larry Coben Energy ce Energy Energy uh CEO. 0:15:25.360 --> 0:15:27.480 A big part of that though, too, is these guys 0:15:27.520 --> 0:15:29.400 are going to go through a big CAPEC cycle because 0:15:29.440 --> 0:15:32.240 of this. Right, So those how those agreements are structured, 0:15:32.240 --> 0:15:35.680 which I was trying to understand is very complicated but 0:15:35.720 --> 0:15:38.640 also necessary, so they have the visibility to then spend 0:15:38.640 --> 0:15:39.640 that CAPEX. 0:15:39.360 --> 0:15:42.000 So curious still owed to have what there's a really 0:15:42.000 --> 0:15:42.480 going to look like. 0:15:42.680 --> 0:15:45.000 Yeah, but I mean, just listening to me seems bullish 0:15:45.040 --> 0:15:47.680 and uh bullish on the state of Texas. Oh yeah, yeah, 0:15:47.720 --> 0:15:50.040 I just I learned something new that John Tucker and 0:15:50.080 --> 0:15:51.960 I we know that they have their own grid in Texas. 0:15:52.040 --> 0:15:53.200 They're not on part of any. 0:15:53.040 --> 0:15:55.200 Of the They read the grid, We read the grid. 0:15:55.280 --> 0:15:58.880 Yeah, but that exempts him from a lot of furk oversight. 0:15:59.080 --> 0:16:02.680 Federal Energy, your regulatory commission. That's good for doing business. 0:16:02.720 --> 0:16:04.200 Oh yeah, why didn't they all go there? 0:16:04.280 --> 0:16:06.680 Yeah, energy Energy, I'm looking at it. 0:16:06.720 --> 0:16:07.600 Here's good stock. 0:16:07.880 --> 0:16:08.920 Yeah, it's done pretty well. 0:16:10.520 --> 0:16:14.240 You're listening to the Bloomberg Intelligence Podcast. Catch us live 0:16:14.320 --> 0:16:17.400 weekdays at ten am Eastern on Apple, Coarclay, and Android 0:16:17.400 --> 0:16:20.720 Auto with the Bloomberg Business app. Listen on demand wherever 0:16:20.760 --> 0:16:23.880 you get your podcasts, or watch us live on YouTube. 0:16:24.880 --> 0:16:27.280 Wrapping up all my interviews at Sarah Week again. That 0:16:27.400 --> 0:16:31.320 is SMP Globals Energy Conference. It's once a year. It's 0:16:31.360 --> 0:16:35.040 in Houston, Texas. All the energy industry players and CEOs come, 0:16:35.160 --> 0:16:37.480 they talk, they schmooz, they meet a shareholders, maybe they 0:16:37.480 --> 0:16:40.840 make deals, they talk behind closed doors. And obviously in 0:16:40.880 --> 0:16:43.200 the middle of all of this, we're getting tariff headlines 0:16:43.400 --> 0:16:45.560 right and left. So I was able to sit down 0:16:45.600 --> 0:16:49.000 and speak with Greg Abel. He is CEO of Enbridge Energy. 0:16:49.600 --> 0:16:53.400 It's a Canadian midstream oil and gas company. I say Canadian, 0:16:53.480 --> 0:16:56.200 but it's maybe North America. They have pipelines that range 0:16:56.200 --> 0:16:59.640 from oil, natural gas, energy transport all across the US 0:17:00.080 --> 0:17:03.280 and Canada. So he's a really good read on all 0:17:03.480 --> 0:17:04.080 of this. 0:17:04.720 --> 0:17:05.760 I asked him straight up. 0:17:05.800 --> 0:17:08.000 I was like, how hard is your life right now? 0:17:08.920 --> 0:17:12.080 Well, forty three states, eight provinces, five countries, it's just 0:17:12.119 --> 0:17:13.600 another day, another day. 0:17:14.000 --> 0:17:16.239 You've got to focus on fundamentals. What do we know. 0:17:17.119 --> 0:17:19.840 Energy's going to flow, has to flow. It's the lifeblood 0:17:19.840 --> 0:17:24.159 of everybody's economy. Consumers want cheap prices. That means provide 0:17:24.200 --> 0:17:28.480 as much supply as economically possible and try to stay 0:17:28.480 --> 0:17:31.439 out of the way of policy and politicians in the 0:17:31.480 --> 0:17:33.600 short term and focus on the long term. 0:17:33.600 --> 0:17:35.640 And so we're continuing to do that. We've got twenty. 0:17:35.440 --> 0:17:38.480 Seven billion dollars projects that we're going to execute through 0:17:38.520 --> 0:17:39.399 twenty twenty. 0:17:39.160 --> 0:17:43.680 Seven, and any of that question marked on hold, put 0:17:43.720 --> 0:17:46.960 on the sidelines on pause because of the turmoil in 0:17:47.040 --> 0:17:49.640 the market and because of the headlines on tariffs. 0:17:49.800 --> 0:17:52.680 No, and here's why, Well, they're already signed up contracts. 0:17:52.680 --> 0:17:55.720 People need that energy. It takes multiple years to build 0:17:55.720 --> 0:17:59.280 that infrastructure. Most of the product that we need for 0:17:59.320 --> 0:18:02.960 those is are already in and i'll say steal for example, 0:18:03.320 --> 0:18:06.760 largely domestically produced in the United States. We're in Canada 0:18:06.840 --> 0:18:09.919 for projects there. So you do need think three or 0:18:09.960 --> 0:18:12.800 four steps ahead. But when you've been around better part 0:18:12.880 --> 0:18:15.360 of a century in your long term energy infrastructure. 0:18:15.640 --> 0:18:17.480 I'm paid to do that every day, and so are 0:18:17.520 --> 0:18:17.960 our people. 0:18:18.119 --> 0:18:20.719 But does that building and all that cappacks get more 0:18:20.760 --> 0:18:22.920 expensive if the material gets more expensive? 0:18:23.080 --> 0:18:25.200 It could, It could, so we have to be again, 0:18:25.240 --> 0:18:27.240 you try to lock that in as soon as possible. 0:18:27.600 --> 0:18:30.600 One of the benefits of running a large pipeline. 0:18:30.119 --> 0:18:34.880 System largely regulated economic regulation beyond just you can pass 0:18:34.920 --> 0:18:38.280 through some costs if they're reasonably so. Again, big buyer, 0:18:38.480 --> 0:18:41.480 as you said, largest pipeline operator in North America. 0:18:41.760 --> 0:18:43.720 We buy a lot of stuff, and I think we've. 0:18:43.560 --> 0:18:46.439 Got a certain amount of power to be able to 0:18:46.640 --> 0:18:50.199 get the best deals possible, and then from a competitive perspective, 0:18:50.480 --> 0:18:52.480 if some prices have to be passed through, fine, but 0:18:52.520 --> 0:18:53.840 generally speaking we lock those ino. 0:18:54.240 --> 0:18:56.240 Have you seen any change in oil flows as. 0:18:56.160 --> 0:19:00.520 Of yet, No, quite the contrary. So January February flows 0:19:00.560 --> 0:19:02.400 out of Canada have been. 0:19:02.520 --> 0:19:03.639 Close to record highs. 0:19:04.280 --> 0:19:06.720 We'll see if that continues, but I think people may 0:19:06.720 --> 0:19:10.800 be getting ahead of those exports under the Gulf Coast, 0:19:10.800 --> 0:19:13.320 where the largest exporter of oil out of the United States. 0:19:13.680 --> 0:19:17.679 That continues to be very robust as allies and customers 0:19:17.720 --> 0:19:20.639 overseas want to continue to get there. And it was 0:19:20.640 --> 0:19:24.480 a pretty coold winter, so natural gas was used predominantly 0:19:25.320 --> 0:19:28.280 to keep people warm and electricity going and industry flying. 0:19:28.359 --> 0:19:31.160 So starts of the year has been pretty good. 0:19:31.720 --> 0:19:35.280