1 00:00:01,480 --> 00:00:07,680 Speaker 1: Welcome to stuff you should know, a production of iHeartRadio. 2 00:00:11,119 --> 00:00:13,640 Speaker 2: Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh, and there's 3 00:00:13,800 --> 00:00:17,639 Speaker 2: Chuck and Jerry's here too, and we're just a few 4 00:00:17,840 --> 00:00:22,000 Speaker 2: Cold War kids working out our ongoing fascination with the 5 00:00:22,040 --> 00:00:22,920 Speaker 2: Soviet Union. 6 00:00:23,600 --> 00:00:26,640 Speaker 3: That's right, this is a man. It's been a long 7 00:00:26,680 --> 00:00:28,400 Speaker 3: time since we've done a two parter. I was trying 8 00:00:28,400 --> 00:00:29,600 Speaker 3: to remember the last time we did this. 9 00:00:30,680 --> 00:00:31,760 Speaker 2: Probably ADHD. 10 00:00:32,840 --> 00:00:35,800 Speaker 3: Yeah, maybe I'm I'm weirdly excited by a two parter 11 00:00:35,880 --> 00:00:36,480 Speaker 3: for some reason. 12 00:00:36,880 --> 00:00:38,280 Speaker 2: Yeah, it is a little weird. 13 00:00:38,760 --> 00:00:42,360 Speaker 3: It feels like less work, even though it's not. 14 00:00:42,920 --> 00:00:46,280 Speaker 2: It's fun also to tackle something and like really understand 15 00:00:46,320 --> 00:00:47,080 Speaker 2: it even further. 16 00:00:47,240 --> 00:00:49,880 Speaker 3: You know, No, I totally agree. Like smashing this into 17 00:00:50,120 --> 00:00:54,120 Speaker 3: a single forty five minute episode would have short shrifted it. 18 00:00:54,200 --> 00:00:57,480 Speaker 2: I think you know what we did. We scored it 19 00:00:57,520 --> 00:00:59,920 Speaker 2: with a sickle and then smashed it down the middle 20 00:01:00,080 --> 00:01:00,720 Speaker 2: with the hammer. 21 00:01:01,120 --> 00:01:02,200 Speaker 3: Wow, look at you. 22 00:01:02,760 --> 00:01:06,520 Speaker 2: Yeah, so we are talking about the Union of Soviet 23 00:01:06,600 --> 00:01:13,520 Speaker 2: Socialist Republics, the USSR for some reason, the CCCP in Russia, 24 00:01:13,840 --> 00:01:16,720 Speaker 2: Soviet Russia. I mean, how many times are we gonna 25 00:01:16,760 --> 00:01:19,160 Speaker 2: do Yakov Smirnoff in this episode? 26 00:01:19,400 --> 00:01:21,039 Speaker 3: I'm gonna try not to do it once. 27 00:01:21,440 --> 00:01:23,959 Speaker 2: Yeah, well you do a better Yakov Smirtoff than me, 28 00:01:24,040 --> 00:01:25,160 Speaker 2: so I hope you will. 29 00:01:25,400 --> 00:01:27,840 Speaker 3: Although Brentson the very nicest time of the year. 30 00:01:27,760 --> 00:01:33,920 Speaker 2: They so. Yeah. And in the I think the basically 31 00:01:34,040 --> 00:01:38,000 Speaker 2: nineteen ninety to the very beginning of nineteen ninety two, 32 00:01:39,120 --> 00:01:43,040 Speaker 2: this superpower, one of two superpowers in the world. The 33 00:01:43,080 --> 00:01:46,559 Speaker 2: way that the world was aligned was based on these 34 00:01:46,600 --> 00:01:50,920 Speaker 2: two superpowers. One of them just fell over and was 35 00:01:50,960 --> 00:01:55,880 Speaker 2: gone in the blink of an eye, like and really quickly. Yeah, 36 00:01:56,120 --> 00:02:00,280 Speaker 2: I mean, like just breathtaking lee fast it went way, 37 00:02:00,400 --> 00:02:05,800 Speaker 2: and not just the country, this superpower, but also the 38 00:02:06,640 --> 00:02:10,239 Speaker 2: Soviet Communism itself. It was just gone, Chuck. 39 00:02:10,320 --> 00:02:14,760 Speaker 3: Just yeah, gone gone, and the end of an ideal, 40 00:02:16,040 --> 00:02:19,000 Speaker 3: the end of a Cold war like it was. You know, 41 00:02:19,880 --> 00:02:22,240 Speaker 3: I can't think of anything that was bigger since the 42 00:02:22,320 --> 00:02:25,480 Speaker 3: end of World War two geopolitically, like this had to 43 00:02:25,480 --> 00:02:26,160 Speaker 3: be the biggest thing. 44 00:02:26,639 --> 00:02:30,120 Speaker 2: I think, absolutely for sure. The best part about it though, 45 00:02:30,240 --> 00:02:32,800 Speaker 2: at least as far as the world was concerned. It 46 00:02:32,840 --> 00:02:37,200 Speaker 2: didn't take a nuclear World War three to make to 47 00:02:37,320 --> 00:02:43,760 Speaker 2: bring the Cold War and the bipolar I guess orientation 48 00:02:43,960 --> 00:02:45,200 Speaker 2: of the world to an end. 49 00:02:45,880 --> 00:02:48,040 Speaker 3: Yeah, and it was a top down thing, like, it 50 00:02:48,120 --> 00:02:51,720 Speaker 3: wasn't an uprising, although as we'll see, like on the 51 00:02:51,760 --> 00:02:54,240 Speaker 3: Eastern Bloc, there were definitely some uprisings and things that 52 00:02:54,280 --> 00:02:57,359 Speaker 3: happened as a result, But the whole thing started as 53 00:02:57,400 --> 00:03:00,920 Speaker 3: a top down thing. Yeah, because of one because of 54 00:03:01,840 --> 00:03:05,280 Speaker 3: Michelle Gorbachev to Gorbachef always said Gorbachev. 55 00:03:05,320 --> 00:03:07,600 Speaker 2: It was I always heard both throughout our youth. 56 00:03:08,000 --> 00:03:09,799 Speaker 3: All right, great, so I'll just say both. 57 00:03:11,320 --> 00:03:11,959 Speaker 2: Gorby. 58 00:03:12,520 --> 00:03:15,320 Speaker 3: Yeah, that's right. It was because of a series of 59 00:03:15,320 --> 00:03:21,280 Speaker 3: decisions that he made to to not fully westernize the 60 00:03:21,320 --> 00:03:25,600 Speaker 3: Soviet Union, but to loosen the rain some, to get 61 00:03:25,639 --> 00:03:28,880 Speaker 3: a little capitalism in there, to get a little more transparency, 62 00:03:29,200 --> 00:03:32,560 Speaker 3: relaxed the reins on the you know, the hard fist 63 00:03:32,639 --> 00:03:36,400 Speaker 3: of the Soviet regime, to kind of just have a newer, 64 00:03:36,480 --> 00:03:41,960 Speaker 3: sort of softer Soviet Union moving forward. And boy, he 65 00:03:44,000 --> 00:03:46,080 Speaker 3: I don't know if he didn't fully think it through 66 00:03:46,280 --> 00:03:50,120 Speaker 3: or if it was just the domino effect was so fast. 67 00:03:50,240 --> 00:03:53,480 Speaker 3: I'm sure he was probably like wow, like I didn't 68 00:03:53,520 --> 00:03:54,640 Speaker 3: think this was going to happen. 69 00:03:54,960 --> 00:03:59,400 Speaker 2: Yeah, He's just standing there like looking guilty while the 70 00:03:59,440 --> 00:04:01,560 Speaker 2: whole room is just fallen down around him because he 71 00:04:01,640 --> 00:04:03,760 Speaker 2: touched something he wasn't supposed to kind. 72 00:04:03,520 --> 00:04:06,360 Speaker 3: Of, yeah, for sure. But it all sort of started 73 00:04:06,400 --> 00:04:11,080 Speaker 3: with these two major reforms that he set out to establish, 74 00:04:11,280 --> 00:04:17,640 Speaker 3: which was in Russian it would be paristroika and glasnot, 75 00:04:17,680 --> 00:04:21,800 Speaker 3: but to us that would be restructuring and transparency. And 76 00:04:21,839 --> 00:04:24,400 Speaker 3: I guess we should talk about the restructuring. 77 00:04:23,839 --> 00:04:28,040 Speaker 2: First, Yeah, parastroika. One more thing I do want to 78 00:04:28,080 --> 00:04:30,320 Speaker 2: say about Gorby though, before we move on, is I 79 00:04:30,360 --> 00:04:35,960 Speaker 2: didn't see anything anywhere that suggested that this was secretly purposeful. 80 00:04:36,040 --> 00:04:39,480 Speaker 2: I think you're absolutely right. I think he was completely 81 00:04:39,520 --> 00:04:44,800 Speaker 2: taken off guard by the consequences of these pretty legitimate 82 00:04:44,839 --> 00:04:48,719 Speaker 2: and good ideas at the time, because Gorbachev inherited a 83 00:04:48,839 --> 00:04:55,600 Speaker 2: USSR that was in deep stagnation by the mid nineteen eighties, right, Yeah, 84 00:04:55,680 --> 00:04:58,560 Speaker 2: it was a planned economy and it had been moving 85 00:04:58,560 --> 00:05:02,840 Speaker 2: along in that direction for decades, but by this time, 86 00:05:02,920 --> 00:05:06,120 Speaker 2: by the eighties, it was just it was not in 87 00:05:06,200 --> 00:05:08,880 Speaker 2: good shape. And so, like you said, to kind of 88 00:05:08,920 --> 00:05:13,000 Speaker 2: like jump start the socialist economy, not replace it, but 89 00:05:13,120 --> 00:05:16,600 Speaker 2: jump started. He was willing to implement some Western style 90 00:05:16,760 --> 00:05:18,400 Speaker 2: free market ideas. 91 00:05:18,680 --> 00:05:20,880 Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, he was a very progressive guy for 92 00:05:21,320 --> 00:05:26,080 Speaker 3: Soviet Russia. You know. So it was a late eighties 93 00:05:26,120 --> 00:05:28,680 Speaker 3: where he launched this, Like we mentioned the first thing, 94 00:05:28,720 --> 00:05:32,880 Speaker 3: the restructuring or the Peristroika, and that was to sort 95 00:05:32,920 --> 00:05:35,800 Speaker 3: of that was sort of the economical political side of things, 96 00:05:35,839 --> 00:05:38,599 Speaker 3: to kind of loosen the grips a little bit, because 97 00:05:38,640 --> 00:05:42,560 Speaker 3: he was like the reality of what our ideals are 98 00:05:43,760 --> 00:05:46,600 Speaker 3: and what's really going on, Like there's a big gap there. 99 00:05:47,120 --> 00:05:50,080 Speaker 3: So he thought, maybe if we have this program of 100 00:05:50,160 --> 00:05:55,880 Speaker 3: like political renewal and maybe some ethics and morals being 101 00:05:55,920 --> 00:06:00,320 Speaker 3: introduced in a like systematically, then maybe we can prove 102 00:06:00,440 --> 00:06:03,720 Speaker 3: what's going on here. And that was what Peristroika was 103 00:06:03,760 --> 00:06:04,599 Speaker 3: supposed to be about. 104 00:06:04,760 --> 00:06:08,120 Speaker 2: Yeah, and gloucestons both of them together. But so that 105 00:06:08,160 --> 00:06:12,240 Speaker 2: planned economy, chuck, here's what Gorby inherited. So you have 106 00:06:12,320 --> 00:06:15,000 Speaker 2: the ruble, which was the official currency of the USSR. 107 00:06:15,160 --> 00:06:18,040 Speaker 2: It was not accepted or recognized outside of the USSR 108 00:06:18,160 --> 00:06:20,760 Speaker 2: or outside of the Eastern Bloc, i should say, outside 109 00:06:20,800 --> 00:06:21,680 Speaker 2: the Iron Curtain. 110 00:06:21,960 --> 00:06:22,960 Speaker 3: Yeah, big problem. 111 00:06:23,200 --> 00:06:26,560 Speaker 2: It is a big problem. Number two, the Soviet government 112 00:06:26,920 --> 00:06:30,760 Speaker 2: was responsible for deciding how much of what any given 113 00:06:30,880 --> 00:06:34,480 Speaker 2: thing was made in any given year. Right, it wasn't 114 00:06:34,520 --> 00:06:36,920 Speaker 2: based on supply and demand. It was based on a 115 00:06:36,960 --> 00:06:40,760 Speaker 2: planned economy. They also set prices for those things. So 116 00:06:41,320 --> 00:06:44,479 Speaker 2: if you put all those things together, the Soviet economy 117 00:06:44,520 --> 00:06:49,040 Speaker 2: had no way of signaling who needed what, where and when, 118 00:06:49,720 --> 00:06:52,480 Speaker 2: and so there were shortages everywhere. There's lots of waste, 119 00:06:53,040 --> 00:06:57,680 Speaker 2: and there were very few businesses. All the businesses in 120 00:06:57,720 --> 00:07:01,280 Speaker 2: this planned economy were owned by the state. There were 121 00:07:01,400 --> 00:07:03,880 Speaker 2: very few of those businesses that didn't need to also 122 00:07:03,960 --> 00:07:08,800 Speaker 2: be propped up artificially because they were just losing money 123 00:07:08,960 --> 00:07:09,680 Speaker 2: left and right. 124 00:07:10,400 --> 00:07:12,760 Speaker 3: Yeah, So, I mean, like you said that what he 125 00:07:12,800 --> 00:07:16,080 Speaker 3: inherited was in bad shape already. One of the reasons, 126 00:07:16,080 --> 00:07:18,160 Speaker 3: and you know, I remember this is something we had 127 00:07:18,320 --> 00:07:21,080 Speaker 3: heard a lot like growing up as gen xers, was 128 00:07:21,120 --> 00:07:24,760 Speaker 3: that the Soviets are trying to keep pace in the 129 00:07:24,760 --> 00:07:27,840 Speaker 3: Cold War, in the space race and everything else, and 130 00:07:27,880 --> 00:07:31,200 Speaker 3: they can't keep up that spending like we could there 131 00:07:31,240 --> 00:07:33,800 Speaker 3: in the West. And that was true. All that government 132 00:07:33,880 --> 00:07:37,320 Speaker 3: spending put a real dent in their their financial outlook. 133 00:07:38,480 --> 00:07:42,120 Speaker 3: The war and invasion of Afghanistan over a ten year 134 00:07:42,200 --> 00:07:46,240 Speaker 3: period from seventy nine to eighty nine was very costly. Yeah, 135 00:07:46,280 --> 00:07:48,760 Speaker 3: and then Chernobyl, I mean, we'll talk a little bit 136 00:07:48,760 --> 00:07:53,920 Speaker 3: about just the cost of like the I guess ethical 137 00:07:53,960 --> 00:07:56,000 Speaker 3: cost of the cover up and what that did to 138 00:07:56,240 --> 00:08:00,400 Speaker 3: dent their image like within the you know, Russia in 139 00:08:00,440 --> 00:08:03,080 Speaker 3: the Soviet Union. But it literally cost a lot of money, 140 00:08:03,120 --> 00:08:06,480 Speaker 3: like at least eighteen billion dollars, like nineteen eighty six 141 00:08:06,560 --> 00:08:09,800 Speaker 3: dollars to clean it up, to contain it. And that 142 00:08:10,000 --> 00:08:12,400 Speaker 3: was on top of everything else, like the straw that 143 00:08:12,440 --> 00:08:13,360 Speaker 3: broke the camel's back. 144 00:08:13,480 --> 00:08:15,800 Speaker 2: Yeah, that was a big deal for them, for sure. 145 00:08:16,520 --> 00:08:21,560 Speaker 2: Did you ever see that Chernobyl miniseriies with Jared I 146 00:08:21,560 --> 00:08:23,720 Speaker 2: can't remember his last Jared Harris. Yeah, one of the 147 00:08:23,720 --> 00:08:25,280 Speaker 2: finest actors of all time. 148 00:08:25,360 --> 00:08:27,360 Speaker 3: I think, Yeah, you bet your butt I did. It 149 00:08:27,400 --> 00:08:30,040 Speaker 3: was outstanding, outstanding. 150 00:08:30,240 --> 00:08:32,720 Speaker 2: I wish all miniseries were that good. 151 00:08:33,040 --> 00:08:34,800 Speaker 3: Yeah, it was one of the best ones i'd seen. 152 00:08:35,040 --> 00:08:40,840 Speaker 2: Yeah, agreed. So again, Perishtroika is Gorby coming along and 153 00:08:40,880 --> 00:08:43,240 Speaker 2: being like, Okay, we're in big trouble. We need some 154 00:08:43,440 --> 00:08:45,599 Speaker 2: money fast, and we need to just make some adjustments. 155 00:08:45,600 --> 00:08:48,560 Speaker 2: So some of those adjustments were basically this was huge, 156 00:08:48,640 --> 00:08:54,400 Speaker 2: Like these were incredibly radical with the backdrop of the 157 00:08:54,520 --> 00:08:59,000 Speaker 2: of the Soviet economy, right, one was allowing companies from 158 00:08:59,120 --> 00:09:03,319 Speaker 2: outside the US to start up businesses in the USSR, 159 00:09:03,440 --> 00:09:06,080 Speaker 2: and they would be joint ventures, co owned by the 160 00:09:06,120 --> 00:09:09,960 Speaker 2: company and by the Soviet Union. Right yeah, So now 161 00:09:09,960 --> 00:09:12,480 Speaker 2: all of a sudden, you have new expertise, new ideas, 162 00:09:12,559 --> 00:09:17,920 Speaker 2: new innovations, high quality products coming in and a bunch 163 00:09:17,960 --> 00:09:21,599 Speaker 2: of money outside investment coming into the USSR. That's a 164 00:09:21,640 --> 00:09:22,920 Speaker 2: pretty good idea, right. 165 00:09:23,440 --> 00:09:25,800 Speaker 3: Yeah, that was a good idea. As part of that, 166 00:09:25,960 --> 00:09:31,360 Speaker 3: he said, maybe we should also get like the locals involved, 167 00:09:31,360 --> 00:09:33,720 Speaker 3: so hand over some of the ownerships of some of 168 00:09:33,720 --> 00:09:36,360 Speaker 3: these state run enterprises that we've had, which is basically 169 00:09:36,400 --> 00:09:40,360 Speaker 3: all business from the government only owned by the government, 170 00:09:40,440 --> 00:09:44,440 Speaker 3: to a locally elected workers collective or a series of them. 171 00:09:45,000 --> 00:09:47,120 Speaker 3: And so that meant that you could have private business 172 00:09:47,160 --> 00:09:50,080 Speaker 3: in the Soviet Union for the first time. And then 173 00:09:50,120 --> 00:09:51,760 Speaker 3: the other one was, you know, you mentioned that they 174 00:09:53,040 --> 00:09:55,520 Speaker 3: they had like quotas for companies, they didn't look at 175 00:09:55,600 --> 00:09:59,120 Speaker 3: at market corrections like supply and demand to indicate how 176 00:09:59,120 --> 00:10:01,920 Speaker 3: they should run stuff. They said, all right, maybe we 177 00:10:01,920 --> 00:10:05,000 Speaker 3: should allow businesses to, like, you know, instead of having 178 00:10:05,040 --> 00:10:08,120 Speaker 3: shortfalls of stuff that we really need, maybe they should 179 00:10:08,120 --> 00:10:11,480 Speaker 3: fulfill beyond the quotas for a change. And you know, 180 00:10:11,520 --> 00:10:13,480 Speaker 3: you got to make the amount set by the quota, 181 00:10:13,520 --> 00:10:16,079 Speaker 3: but beyond that you could continue making that stuff that 182 00:10:16,160 --> 00:10:18,480 Speaker 3: there's demand for it for sure. 183 00:10:18,720 --> 00:10:24,000 Speaker 2: Okay, so these are very radical ideas. But had he 184 00:10:24,240 --> 00:10:29,240 Speaker 2: just gone with Peristroika, my money is on Perestroika alone 185 00:10:29,280 --> 00:10:33,640 Speaker 2: would not have torn down the USSR. I think it 186 00:10:33,720 --> 00:10:36,319 Speaker 2: was a combination, and probably more than anything, it was 187 00:10:36,360 --> 00:10:41,920 Speaker 2: really Glasnost that did it. The problems with Peristroika were 188 00:10:41,920 --> 00:10:48,319 Speaker 2: immediately apparent. There were by investing more power into the 189 00:10:48,600 --> 00:10:55,040 Speaker 2: the the republics that all made up the Soviet Union. Yeah, 190 00:10:55,120 --> 00:10:57,599 Speaker 2: they started to withhold tax payments that were supposed to 191 00:10:57,640 --> 00:10:59,760 Speaker 2: go to the central government. Right, they were kind of 192 00:11:00,000 --> 00:11:02,520 Speaker 2: a little bit emboldened. I guess by that little extra 193 00:11:02,600 --> 00:11:04,640 Speaker 2: power they were given. Yeah, for sure, some of the 194 00:11:04,679 --> 00:11:08,440 Speaker 2: ministers who would run these places for the government were 195 00:11:08,480 --> 00:11:12,520 Speaker 2: now running them kind of like as private citizens, and 196 00:11:13,120 --> 00:11:17,959 Speaker 2: they started looting industry however they could. It just immediately started. 197 00:11:18,200 --> 00:11:21,640 Speaker 2: And then the old quota system was what they had 198 00:11:21,640 --> 00:11:25,640 Speaker 2: in place of supplying demand. But no one under the 199 00:11:26,040 --> 00:11:29,880 Speaker 2: Soviet regime had any idea what other stuff you could 200 00:11:29,960 --> 00:11:33,960 Speaker 2: use for supplying demand. Plus the ruble was still artificially controlled, 201 00:11:34,200 --> 00:11:36,920 Speaker 2: so they didn't have any market signals. Nobody knew what 202 00:11:36,960 --> 00:11:38,640 Speaker 2: the heck was going on at this point. 203 00:11:39,000 --> 00:11:40,920 Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean it was all brand new, like and 204 00:11:40,960 --> 00:11:44,600 Speaker 3: we'll talk about this later, but you know, you can't 205 00:11:44,600 --> 00:11:47,720 Speaker 3: just flick a switch overnight and say, all of a sudden, 206 00:11:47,800 --> 00:11:50,200 Speaker 3: we're a more free market economy and let's just see 207 00:11:50,200 --> 00:11:52,560 Speaker 3: how that works, because it had been so long, right 208 00:11:52,800 --> 00:11:56,680 Speaker 3: and so you know, entwined in the government's iron fist. 209 00:11:57,600 --> 00:12:00,720 Speaker 3: It was just a mess. And so the economy started 210 00:12:00,760 --> 00:12:03,360 Speaker 3: just going bananas in all sorts of weird ways, and 211 00:12:03,400 --> 00:12:06,600 Speaker 3: the government tried to rein that in by spending a 212 00:12:06,600 --> 00:12:08,880 Speaker 3: lot to try and outmaneuver all the weird things that 213 00:12:08,920 --> 00:12:12,839 Speaker 3: were happening, and it was just a big mess kind 214 00:12:12,840 --> 00:12:13,560 Speaker 3: of right off the bat. 215 00:12:13,960 --> 00:12:16,679 Speaker 2: Yes, so it was a mess, but the Soviet Union's 216 00:12:16,679 --> 00:12:19,000 Speaker 2: economy was already a mess, and I don't think just 217 00:12:19,080 --> 00:12:23,200 Speaker 2: Peristroika would have done what happened. It took glass Nos 218 00:12:23,240 --> 00:12:28,319 Speaker 2: in my opinion, to bring down the Soviet Union? Should 219 00:12:28,320 --> 00:12:30,840 Speaker 2: we keep going? Are you kidding me? 220 00:12:30,920 --> 00:12:32,000 Speaker 3: With a cliffhanger like that? 221 00:12:32,200 --> 00:12:32,520 Speaker 2: Okay? 222 00:12:34,200 --> 00:12:37,080 Speaker 3: Oh man, I was like, we're taking a message break, 223 00:12:37,080 --> 00:12:37,559 Speaker 3: and you're. 224 00:12:37,400 --> 00:12:41,280 Speaker 2: Like, hey man, you convinced me immediately. 225 00:12:41,679 --> 00:12:43,760 Speaker 3: Yeah, that's a great cliffhanger. We're going to come back 226 00:12:43,760 --> 00:13:05,160 Speaker 3: and explain what Glassnos was right after this, all right, 227 00:13:05,240 --> 00:13:08,719 Speaker 3: Josh T's Glasnost, and that was the second part of 228 00:13:08,760 --> 00:13:11,680 Speaker 3: the one two punch to try and introduce a new 229 00:13:11,720 --> 00:13:16,120 Speaker 3: style of government in the Soviet Union. And this, you know, 230 00:13:16,240 --> 00:13:19,760 Speaker 3: calls for this kind of started coming after the Chernobyl 231 00:13:19,880 --> 00:13:23,320 Speaker 3: cover up in eighty six, and the whole idea behind 232 00:13:23,360 --> 00:13:26,040 Speaker 3: Glasnost was more transparency. Like I said, that's what the 233 00:13:26,080 --> 00:13:30,480 Speaker 3: word means, so relax some of this you know, very 234 00:13:30,520 --> 00:13:36,840 Speaker 3: notorious state censorship of everything. And so once that was done, 235 00:13:37,160 --> 00:13:41,160 Speaker 3: all these social ills that plagued the Soviet Union started 236 00:13:41,200 --> 00:13:43,520 Speaker 3: to be exposed a little bit in the media, so 237 00:13:45,120 --> 00:13:50,800 Speaker 3: you know, like mass famine, the gulags, you know, Soviet 238 00:13:50,840 --> 00:13:54,319 Speaker 3: history basically kind of being realized for the first time 239 00:13:55,280 --> 00:13:58,400 Speaker 3: and displayed for people to make their own like judgments on. 240 00:13:58,480 --> 00:14:02,480 Speaker 3: It was a good idea, but again, once those fladgates 241 00:14:02,480 --> 00:14:04,640 Speaker 3: were open, it was turned out to not be a 242 00:14:04,720 --> 00:14:05,920 Speaker 3: very good idea. 243 00:14:06,240 --> 00:14:10,360 Speaker 2: Yes, so I believe Gorbachev was a true believer in 244 00:14:10,440 --> 00:14:14,800 Speaker 2: the idea that the Soviet Union needed greater freedom of 245 00:14:14,840 --> 00:14:16,920 Speaker 2: speech and greater freedom of the press. I think you 246 00:14:17,000 --> 00:14:21,840 Speaker 2: truly believed that this was also calculated politically as well. 247 00:14:21,960 --> 00:14:25,040 Speaker 2: And his position was, Okay, if I can have an 248 00:14:25,160 --> 00:14:30,200 Speaker 2: open conversation with the Soviet people about the need for 249 00:14:30,280 --> 00:14:32,920 Speaker 2: reforms and all the stuff we need to implement because 250 00:14:32,920 --> 00:14:36,280 Speaker 2: of these problems we have, they're going to support my 251 00:14:36,520 --> 00:14:39,840 Speaker 2: policies and plans and me And by doing that I 252 00:14:39,880 --> 00:14:43,360 Speaker 2: will be I will pull the levers of power away 253 00:14:43,400 --> 00:14:46,480 Speaker 2: from the conservatives who have managed to hang on to 254 00:14:46,600 --> 00:14:50,280 Speaker 2: power and keep things as they were, stagnated in trouble 255 00:14:51,720 --> 00:14:56,760 Speaker 2: by that censorship, by the silence, silencing of critics, by 256 00:14:56,920 --> 00:15:02,240 Speaker 2: intimidation and actual violence. If I get people talking openly 257 00:15:02,320 --> 00:15:06,040 Speaker 2: about the problems, then we can have real change. So 258 00:15:06,080 --> 00:15:09,360 Speaker 2: it was politically calculated, even though he did almost certainly 259 00:15:09,400 --> 00:15:12,000 Speaker 2: actually believe that it needed to happen too. 260 00:15:12,600 --> 00:15:15,000 Speaker 3: Yeah, for sure. But the thing is, like what you 261 00:15:15,040 --> 00:15:18,040 Speaker 3: were saying was the conservatives had managed to hang on 262 00:15:18,160 --> 00:15:20,360 Speaker 3: to that power by keeping things as they were, which 263 00:15:20,440 --> 00:15:25,120 Speaker 3: wasn't great, but it was stable in a way like 264 00:15:25,240 --> 00:15:29,920 Speaker 3: it wasn't It wasn't chaos, it was highly controlled, and 265 00:15:29,960 --> 00:15:31,840 Speaker 3: that's the way they liked it. So to disrupt that 266 00:15:31,920 --> 00:15:36,880 Speaker 3: system was. You know, it's a pretty bold move. He himself. 267 00:15:37,720 --> 00:15:40,800 Speaker 3: He was part of the what was known as the Nomenclatura, 268 00:15:40,880 --> 00:15:44,840 Speaker 3: which was the sort of the upper echelon of Soviet society. 269 00:15:45,440 --> 00:15:49,200 Speaker 3: It's like the elite bureaucrats, and they had perks that 270 00:15:49,240 --> 00:15:52,120 Speaker 3: other people didn't have. Obviously. They had like you know, estates, 271 00:15:52,120 --> 00:15:54,840 Speaker 3: and they had nicer cars and things like that. And 272 00:15:54,920 --> 00:15:57,840 Speaker 3: that was not a part of the Communist experiment, the 273 00:15:57,840 --> 00:16:01,360 Speaker 3: communist idea or this idea of social equality. And I 274 00:16:01,400 --> 00:16:04,920 Speaker 3: think he had spent so much time in his career 275 00:16:05,120 --> 00:16:08,640 Speaker 3: in the nomenclature that he really was out of touch 276 00:16:08,800 --> 00:16:11,640 Speaker 3: with what was going on for the average sort of 277 00:16:12,120 --> 00:16:14,000 Speaker 3: day to day life of the average Soviet. 278 00:16:14,360 --> 00:16:16,920 Speaker 2: Yeah, so he knew enough to know that they were 279 00:16:17,000 --> 00:16:21,960 Speaker 2: suffering and weren't fully aware of why, but he had 280 00:16:22,000 --> 00:16:25,640 Speaker 2: no idea of just how much they're suffering. Was promoting 281 00:16:25,880 --> 00:16:30,760 Speaker 2: a desire for real, real change, Yeah, not even like 282 00:16:30,920 --> 00:16:34,040 Speaker 2: small incremental change or even semi big change like he 283 00:16:34,120 --> 00:16:38,080 Speaker 2: was proposing, but sweeping change essentially, And that's what he 284 00:16:38,120 --> 00:16:41,120 Speaker 2: found out once he opened up Glass nost And it 285 00:16:41,160 --> 00:16:45,880 Speaker 2: wasn't immediately adopted. I think the press actually kind of 286 00:16:45,960 --> 00:16:48,320 Speaker 2: hung back for a little while at first, like is 287 00:16:48,360 --> 00:16:50,840 Speaker 2: this trap are you trying to Are we going to 288 00:16:50,880 --> 00:16:52,960 Speaker 2: be arrested? And he was like yeah, I think he 289 00:16:53,000 --> 00:16:55,320 Speaker 2: said at some point like there's no subject that's off 290 00:16:55,360 --> 00:16:58,280 Speaker 2: the table. Everything is open for discussion, And very quickly 291 00:16:58,360 --> 00:17:00,560 Speaker 2: the press started to do with their posted to do. 292 00:17:01,040 --> 00:17:05,119 Speaker 2: They began reporting on the ills of Soviet society. 293 00:17:05,800 --> 00:17:10,160 Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean it was crazy thing to do, looking back, yes, 294 00:17:11,600 --> 00:17:13,240 Speaker 3: they you know, because all of a sudden, the media 295 00:17:13,359 --> 00:17:16,280 Speaker 3: is writing about food shortages and writing about the rampant 296 00:17:16,280 --> 00:17:20,840 Speaker 3: alcoholism and the pollution and the mortality rates. We'll get 297 00:17:20,840 --> 00:17:24,800 Speaker 3: to some stats later on, but the second tier sort 298 00:17:24,840 --> 00:17:30,080 Speaker 3: of position of women in Russian and Soviet society, state crimes, 299 00:17:30,680 --> 00:17:33,200 Speaker 3: A lot of that was like under Stalin's rule obviously, 300 00:17:33,200 --> 00:17:35,560 Speaker 3: but you know, that stuff was still going on, and 301 00:17:35,640 --> 00:17:39,520 Speaker 3: so all of these sort of you know, true believers, 302 00:17:39,600 --> 00:17:43,800 Speaker 3: and as you'll see, like especially in Mother Russia, the 303 00:17:44,080 --> 00:17:47,560 Speaker 3: Eastern Bloc sort of had other ideas, but especially in 304 00:17:47,560 --> 00:17:49,600 Speaker 3: Mother Russia, like this is something they really believed in 305 00:17:49,640 --> 00:17:52,520 Speaker 3: and they had never received this information. So it was 306 00:17:52,560 --> 00:17:54,760 Speaker 3: easy if you were, you know, in the United States 307 00:17:54,800 --> 00:17:57,600 Speaker 3: or in the West, to be like they have no 308 00:17:57,640 --> 00:18:00,879 Speaker 3: idea what's going on in their own country because everything 309 00:18:00,920 --> 00:18:04,200 Speaker 3: is being censored. But they really didn't. And you know, 310 00:18:04,280 --> 00:18:07,720 Speaker 3: it's if you're living in a smaller town or a 311 00:18:07,800 --> 00:18:10,800 Speaker 3: village and you're looking around, you might see some ills, 312 00:18:10,840 --> 00:18:14,440 Speaker 3: but if you're reading about how everything is great, then 313 00:18:14,520 --> 00:18:17,240 Speaker 3: it's gonna you know, slant your opinion of it all. 314 00:18:17,480 --> 00:18:19,520 Speaker 2: Yeah, and even more than that, as we'll talk about 315 00:18:19,520 --> 00:18:22,920 Speaker 2: it in a little while, a lot of Soviets identities 316 00:18:22,960 --> 00:18:26,400 Speaker 2: were rooted in the Soviet experiment that now had been 317 00:18:26,440 --> 00:18:32,200 Speaker 2: exposed as being based on torture and executions and the 318 00:18:33,080 --> 00:18:36,920 Speaker 2: starvation of millions and millions of peasants. You know, like, yeah, 319 00:18:36,960 --> 00:18:39,760 Speaker 2: that it shook them to their core. It wasn't just 320 00:18:39,880 --> 00:18:41,879 Speaker 2: like a loss of faith in their government. It was 321 00:18:41,920 --> 00:18:45,640 Speaker 2: a loss of faith in their own themselves, I guess 322 00:18:45,760 --> 00:18:47,080 Speaker 2: in some cases. 323 00:18:47,160 --> 00:18:49,960 Speaker 3: Yeah, for sure. And you know, like I mentioned, especially 324 00:18:50,000 --> 00:18:53,159 Speaker 3: in Russia because that was sort of the center of 325 00:18:53,160 --> 00:18:57,480 Speaker 3: the Soviet Union. But once this happened in these formally 326 00:18:57,480 --> 00:19:01,520 Speaker 3: independent satellite states, like you said earlier, I think he 327 00:19:01,600 --> 00:19:05,919 Speaker 3: really underestimated how ready they all were to really break 328 00:19:06,080 --> 00:19:09,800 Speaker 3: free and sort of rise up. And you know, there 329 00:19:09,840 --> 00:19:15,200 Speaker 3: were some deep seated like ancient hostilities and rivalries among 330 00:19:15,280 --> 00:19:17,800 Speaker 3: some of these Soviet states that were forced to be 331 00:19:17,880 --> 00:19:20,000 Speaker 3: together because they were part of the Soviet Union. And 332 00:19:20,040 --> 00:19:22,320 Speaker 3: you know, a good example you found was the ethnic 333 00:19:22,359 --> 00:19:26,160 Speaker 3: Albanians and the Serbs. They had hated each other since 334 00:19:26,720 --> 00:19:30,600 Speaker 3: the fourteenth century, since the Battle of the Field of Blackbirds, 335 00:19:30,960 --> 00:19:33,320 Speaker 3: but as a part of the Soviet Union, they were, 336 00:19:33,800 --> 00:19:36,520 Speaker 3: you know, supposed to be fellow countrymen. So as soon 337 00:19:36,560 --> 00:19:39,439 Speaker 3: as they got the chance to hate each other again, 338 00:19:40,640 --> 00:19:42,520 Speaker 3: they did, And that's why there was so much fighting 339 00:19:42,520 --> 00:19:45,520 Speaker 3: in the Balkans, like for basically all throughout the nineties 340 00:19:45,520 --> 00:19:47,040 Speaker 3: once this happened, Yeah. 341 00:19:46,840 --> 00:19:49,560 Speaker 2: Because the Soviets no longer forced them together and they 342 00:19:49,560 --> 00:19:53,320 Speaker 2: were like, okay, it's on, let's start committing atrocities, and 343 00:19:53,359 --> 00:19:56,760 Speaker 2: they all did. The other thing that really kind of 344 00:19:57,400 --> 00:20:01,919 Speaker 2: happened with class nos was the like the exposure of 345 00:20:02,119 --> 00:20:06,800 Speaker 2: Western media, Western pop culture, Like this was not something 346 00:20:06,880 --> 00:20:10,480 Speaker 2: that people had in the in the USSR had like 347 00:20:11,119 --> 00:20:14,400 Speaker 2: really been exposed to at this point. Did you ever 348 00:20:14,440 --> 00:20:19,320 Speaker 2: see that documentary where somebody was smuggling like Chuck Norris 349 00:20:19,400 --> 00:20:23,480 Speaker 2: movies into I think Bulgaria or something like that, and 350 00:20:23,520 --> 00:20:28,320 Speaker 2: they credited like these bootleg American movies is essentially like 351 00:20:28,359 --> 00:20:32,240 Speaker 2: creating like unrest among the youth and leading eventually to revolution. 352 00:20:33,520 --> 00:20:36,919 Speaker 3: No, because they were like, Wow, there's a guy like 353 00:20:37,040 --> 00:20:39,080 Speaker 3: Chuck Norris in the world that we don't know about. 354 00:20:39,640 --> 00:20:43,200 Speaker 2: Yeah, essentially Chuck Norris Rambo. Like they went crazy for it. 355 00:20:43,240 --> 00:20:46,640 Speaker 2: And they also now saw the Western view of their 356 00:20:47,040 --> 00:20:50,199 Speaker 2: country and their culture, and they were like, wow, this's 357 00:20:50,359 --> 00:20:53,480 Speaker 2: maybe you are pretty backwards. We don't have anybody like that. 358 00:20:54,080 --> 00:20:56,040 Speaker 3: Well, I mean, you know, and I'm not saying this 359 00:20:56,160 --> 00:20:58,120 Speaker 3: in jest because you know how much I love Billy Joel, 360 00:20:58,600 --> 00:21:02,080 Speaker 3: but that I think it was a couple of concerts 361 00:21:02,240 --> 00:21:05,680 Speaker 3: he did in the Soviet Union. Yeah, that was a 362 00:21:05,720 --> 00:21:08,360 Speaker 3: really really big deal, Like no Western artists had ever 363 00:21:08,400 --> 00:21:12,960 Speaker 3: performed there, And yeah, I think that made a big difference, 364 00:21:13,040 --> 00:21:15,600 Speaker 3: you know, as far as opening people's eyes to to 365 00:21:16,400 --> 00:21:17,159 Speaker 3: Western culture. 366 00:21:17,400 --> 00:21:19,280 Speaker 2: Yeah, I think Metallica did too. 367 00:21:20,880 --> 00:21:23,040 Speaker 3: Oh did they later obviously, yeah, a little. 368 00:21:22,880 --> 00:21:25,720 Speaker 2: Later, but you know, it might have been before the 369 00:21:25,720 --> 00:21:27,919 Speaker 2: fall of the Soviet Union, but probably right around the 370 00:21:28,000 --> 00:21:32,920 Speaker 2: time ALF. I mean, once they found out that ALF 371 00:21:33,200 --> 00:21:35,919 Speaker 2: was on TV, They're like, it's it is over for 372 00:21:36,240 --> 00:21:37,240 Speaker 2: Communist Russia. 373 00:21:37,920 --> 00:21:43,800 Speaker 3: Well, the big thing that really allowed the satellite states 374 00:21:43,800 --> 00:21:47,639 Speaker 3: outside of Russia itself to really, I guess I feel 375 00:21:47,680 --> 00:21:51,440 Speaker 3: like they had a real chance at uprising was when 376 00:21:51,480 --> 00:21:56,480 Speaker 3: Gorbachev renounced the Brezhnev doctrine, which was the doctrine that said, Hey, 377 00:21:57,520 --> 00:22:00,000 Speaker 3: we're going to defend everybody here, We're going to defend 378 00:22:00,080 --> 00:22:05,480 Speaker 3: socialism with this massive army. We're all together, The Soviet 379 00:22:05,520 --> 00:22:07,800 Speaker 3: Bloc is is one, and we will all defend each other, 380 00:22:07,880 --> 00:22:11,080 Speaker 3: sort of like a NATO thing m And in its place, 381 00:22:11,200 --> 00:22:15,040 Speaker 3: Gorbachev was like, you know, you guys, pursue your own 382 00:22:15,119 --> 00:22:19,080 Speaker 3: reforms and you know, govern government with the support of 383 00:22:19,160 --> 00:22:22,240 Speaker 3: the people, like all these satellite states. And again just 384 00:22:22,680 --> 00:22:25,440 Speaker 3: the pedal to the metal that happened after that, and 385 00:22:25,560 --> 00:22:29,199 Speaker 3: once they knew that they didn't have Moscow's military support, 386 00:22:29,280 --> 00:22:32,560 Speaker 3: like removing that show of force that was kind of 387 00:22:32,600 --> 00:22:34,840 Speaker 3: holding everything together. So once that went away, it just 388 00:22:34,880 --> 00:22:35,680 Speaker 3: started to grumble. 389 00:22:35,880 --> 00:22:41,639 Speaker 2: Yeah, now I think you've created a really good cliffhanger. No, 390 00:22:42,359 --> 00:22:44,320 Speaker 2: so what do you say, should we take our second 391 00:22:44,320 --> 00:22:44,800 Speaker 2: break here? 392 00:22:45,280 --> 00:22:46,000 Speaker 3: Yeah, let's do it. 393 00:22:46,040 --> 00:22:47,760 Speaker 2: Okay, we're going to do that, guys. 394 00:22:47,880 --> 00:23:08,960 Speaker 1: Chuck just agree, Okay, Chuck. 395 00:23:09,000 --> 00:23:13,719 Speaker 2: So where we last left off was when Gorbachef abandoned 396 00:23:13,720 --> 00:23:16,879 Speaker 2: the Brezhnev doctrine that said we're going to show up 397 00:23:16,880 --> 00:23:19,639 Speaker 2: with our military if there's any unrest in any of 398 00:23:19,680 --> 00:23:24,240 Speaker 2: the satellite states or republics. And without that show of force, 399 00:23:25,320 --> 00:23:29,760 Speaker 2: that was probably, like you said before the break, the 400 00:23:29,960 --> 00:23:33,119 Speaker 2: thing that really kind of gave rise or gave support 401 00:23:33,160 --> 00:23:37,440 Speaker 2: to these nationalist movements. And each time one of the 402 00:23:38,280 --> 00:23:41,720 Speaker 2: like the satellite states. So we're focusing now on satellite states. 403 00:23:41,720 --> 00:23:46,280 Speaker 2: We should differentiate. So there were fifteen republics in the USSR. 404 00:23:46,320 --> 00:23:52,399 Speaker 2: It included like Latvia, Estonia, Turkmenistan, a bunch of others, 405 00:23:53,040 --> 00:23:56,840 Speaker 2: and then there were satellite states. There were ostensibly independent 406 00:23:56,880 --> 00:24:02,800 Speaker 2: countries like Czechoslovakia, Hungary, poll In, Albania, few others. Those 407 00:24:02,800 --> 00:24:05,840 Speaker 2: are considered satellite states. And you put all of them together. 408 00:24:06,119 --> 00:24:08,760 Speaker 2: So you have the USSR with the fifteen republics and 409 00:24:08,800 --> 00:24:11,320 Speaker 2: the satellite states. Now you have the Eastern Bloc and 410 00:24:11,400 --> 00:24:14,120 Speaker 2: all that's behind what they called the Iron Curtain. That 411 00:24:14,280 --> 00:24:18,240 Speaker 2: whole portion of the world was turned in on itself, 412 00:24:18,560 --> 00:24:20,440 Speaker 2: had turned its back on the rest of the world, 413 00:24:20,720 --> 00:24:24,280 Speaker 2: and was focused on its own socialists experiment. Aside from 414 00:24:24,720 --> 00:24:27,760 Speaker 2: helping out other countries that wanted to try their own 415 00:24:27,800 --> 00:24:31,480 Speaker 2: socialists experiments, which is why there was secret fighting in 416 00:24:31,560 --> 00:24:35,800 Speaker 2: like Nicaragua and why Cuba had missiles, nuclear missiles aimed 417 00:24:35,840 --> 00:24:38,240 Speaker 2: at the United States. For the most part, though, the 418 00:24:38,280 --> 00:24:41,400 Speaker 2: Eastern Bloc paid attention to itself and kept the rest 419 00:24:41,400 --> 00:24:42,080 Speaker 2: of the world. 420 00:24:41,920 --> 00:24:46,000 Speaker 3: Out, that's right, and kept them in. But once there 421 00:24:46,040 --> 00:24:49,560 Speaker 3: was freedom of movement and travel from behind the Iron Curtain, 422 00:24:50,040 --> 00:24:53,800 Speaker 3: this was like a really really key to the weakening 423 00:24:53,840 --> 00:24:55,880 Speaker 3: of the Union. And they were like, you know what's 424 00:24:55,920 --> 00:25:00,199 Speaker 3: really nice is is Budapest And that's just you know, 425 00:25:00,200 --> 00:25:02,800 Speaker 3: a handful of hours by train into Austria. So all 426 00:25:02,800 --> 00:25:04,720 Speaker 3: of a sudden you had tens of thousands of East 427 00:25:04,720 --> 00:25:09,399 Speaker 3: Germans defecting. Most people wanted to stay in like in 428 00:25:09,440 --> 00:25:11,320 Speaker 3: their houses, so like people want to live where they 429 00:25:11,520 --> 00:25:14,159 Speaker 3: have their have lived their whole lives, right, So it 430 00:25:14,200 --> 00:25:18,200 Speaker 3: wasn't like everybody left like citizens of other Soviet republics. 431 00:25:18,240 --> 00:25:20,760 Speaker 3: East Germans, most of them wanted to stay in their homes, 432 00:25:21,080 --> 00:25:23,680 Speaker 3: but they wanted things to be different. So as soon 433 00:25:23,720 --> 00:25:26,679 Speaker 3: as sort of the door was open politically, and all 434 00:25:26,720 --> 00:25:29,800 Speaker 3: of a sudden you could vote for different candidates, like 435 00:25:30,480 --> 00:25:34,479 Speaker 3: those candidates completely swept every election that happened. 436 00:25:34,640 --> 00:25:37,840 Speaker 2: Yeah, Poland was the first one. It's also probably the 437 00:25:37,880 --> 00:25:43,040 Speaker 2: best example of them all because being in the Eastern Bloc, 438 00:25:43,359 --> 00:25:46,000 Speaker 2: there was one party. When you went to vote, you 439 00:25:46,080 --> 00:25:49,119 Speaker 2: voted for one party, and that was the Communist Party 440 00:25:49,119 --> 00:25:52,160 Speaker 2: of the Soviet Union. Even if you had an independent country, 441 00:25:52,400 --> 00:25:56,600 Speaker 2: the Communists had your country, your government on lockdown, right. 442 00:25:57,240 --> 00:26:01,879 Speaker 2: And at one point, as part of like this series 443 00:26:01,920 --> 00:26:05,560 Speaker 2: of decisions that just took this rolling snowball and just 444 00:26:05,960 --> 00:26:12,440 Speaker 2: turned it into an avalanche, was Gorbachev saying, no longer 445 00:26:12,840 --> 00:26:17,199 Speaker 2: are alternative party's outlawed. We can have other parties. And 446 00:26:17,240 --> 00:26:20,440 Speaker 2: that first started in Poland with the Solidarity Party, which 447 00:26:20,440 --> 00:26:23,000 Speaker 2: had been a trade union for a decade or so 448 00:26:24,640 --> 00:26:28,920 Speaker 2: and had turned into a populist, anti authoritarian party. And 449 00:26:29,000 --> 00:26:32,800 Speaker 2: now that it was possible for Solidarity to run against 450 00:26:32,840 --> 00:26:36,840 Speaker 2: the Communists, like you said, the board was just totally 451 00:26:36,840 --> 00:26:37,560 Speaker 2: swept by then. 452 00:26:38,280 --> 00:26:42,919 Speaker 3: Wasn't that like Villenza? Yeah? I remember, I mean all 453 00:26:42,960 --> 00:26:44,959 Speaker 3: this stuff was on the news, but I was in 454 00:26:45,040 --> 00:26:48,159 Speaker 3: late high school into early college, and that wasn't you know, 455 00:26:48,359 --> 00:26:50,800 Speaker 3: I wasn't paying attention like I do. You know, as 456 00:26:50,880 --> 00:26:53,359 Speaker 3: you get older, I think the same as most people. 457 00:26:53,480 --> 00:26:55,960 Speaker 2: You didn't have a Solidarity Party T shirt in the 458 00:26:56,160 --> 00:26:57,560 Speaker 2: It looked like a Smirnoff label. 459 00:26:58,160 --> 00:26:59,800 Speaker 3: But I remember, you know, all of this stuff was 460 00:26:59,840 --> 00:27:03,400 Speaker 3: in the background, always on the news. But yeah, once 461 00:27:03,440 --> 00:27:06,639 Speaker 3: the Solidarity Party had a chance to run, it was 462 00:27:06,720 --> 00:27:09,239 Speaker 3: it was a sort of partially free election because what 463 00:27:09,280 --> 00:27:11,320 Speaker 3: they did was they said, all right, you can have 464 00:27:11,359 --> 00:27:14,680 Speaker 3: a new party, but it's not just for one hundred 465 00:27:14,720 --> 00:27:17,840 Speaker 3: percent of the available seats. The solid Solidarity Party can 466 00:27:17,880 --> 00:27:21,720 Speaker 3: have thirty five, like up to thirty five percent of 467 00:27:21,760 --> 00:27:25,600 Speaker 3: the seats in there, you know, the Polish equivalent of 468 00:27:25,640 --> 00:27:28,399 Speaker 3: the House of Representatives or the House of Commons. The 469 00:27:28,440 --> 00:27:31,520 Speaker 3: other sixty five percent were still reserved for the Communist Party, 470 00:27:31,800 --> 00:27:34,280 Speaker 3: so they would still hold on to power. And then 471 00:27:34,320 --> 00:27:36,840 Speaker 3: they outside a newly created Senate, so one hundred newly 472 00:27:36,880 --> 00:27:41,320 Speaker 3: created Senate seats, and Solidarity won ninety nine out of 473 00:27:41,320 --> 00:27:44,800 Speaker 3: the hundred Senate seats. The one independent that won later 474 00:27:44,880 --> 00:27:49,080 Speaker 3: switched to Solidarity, and they completely obviously filled the thirty 475 00:27:49,119 --> 00:27:53,600 Speaker 3: five percent allotment that they were well allotted in the House, 476 00:27:54,440 --> 00:27:58,320 Speaker 3: and the Communists were so unpopular they didn't even get 477 00:27:58,320 --> 00:27:59,800 Speaker 3: all the votes they needed to fill the other. 478 00:27:59,680 --> 00:28:04,919 Speaker 2: Six Yeah, Yeah, so Solidarity showed the rest of the 479 00:28:04,960 --> 00:28:09,760 Speaker 2: world like, like we have been under the communist thumb, 480 00:28:09,800 --> 00:28:13,000 Speaker 2: the Soviet thumb. We don't want that. Not only do 481 00:28:13,080 --> 00:28:14,879 Speaker 2: we want to be independent, we don't want to be 482 00:28:14,960 --> 00:28:18,520 Speaker 2: communists anymore. Yeah, and they weren't after that. I mean, 483 00:28:18,800 --> 00:28:22,560 Speaker 2: once Solidarity came into power, Poland very quickly was like, 484 00:28:22,640 --> 00:28:25,880 Speaker 2: we're not associated with them anymore. Everybody, come on over 485 00:28:25,920 --> 00:28:29,960 Speaker 2: to Poland. We have amazing sausages and all sorts of 486 00:28:30,000 --> 00:28:32,520 Speaker 2: other good things that you'll find out when you get here. 487 00:28:32,920 --> 00:28:37,000 Speaker 3: That's right, But we're please, no jokes. We've heard about 488 00:28:37,000 --> 00:28:39,000 Speaker 3: all that stuff, but yeah, leave those at home. 489 00:28:39,960 --> 00:28:44,240 Speaker 2: Right. Our submarines do not have screen doors on them. 490 00:28:44,480 --> 00:28:47,200 Speaker 3: That's right. I've never understood that. I've always been to 491 00:28:47,200 --> 00:28:48,560 Speaker 3: look that up on why that was a thing. 492 00:28:48,720 --> 00:28:52,040 Speaker 2: Oh, because if you like, once its submerged, all the 493 00:28:52,080 --> 00:28:53,560 Speaker 2: water would come through the screen door. 494 00:28:55,560 --> 00:28:58,480 Speaker 3: Now I remember jokes about Polish people. I never knew 495 00:28:58,480 --> 00:28:59,280 Speaker 3: the background to that. 496 00:28:59,640 --> 00:29:02,480 Speaker 2: I think they just got picked one of those things 497 00:29:02,480 --> 00:29:05,040 Speaker 2: where it's like, so this group has all the jokes 498 00:29:05,080 --> 00:29:07,280 Speaker 2: against them, so then you start to just think they're 499 00:29:07,320 --> 00:29:10,120 Speaker 2: all stupid, so that just begets more jokes against them. 500 00:29:10,160 --> 00:29:11,160 Speaker 2: I think it's like. 501 00:29:11,120 --> 00:29:15,920 Speaker 3: Detroit, Yes, exactly, I'm just kidding, Detroit. We love you. 502 00:29:17,040 --> 00:29:20,720 Speaker 3: So the Berlin Wall comes down, obviously, that was a 503 00:29:20,720 --> 00:29:26,800 Speaker 3: big deal. Germany was reunified, you know, sort of been 504 00:29:26,840 --> 00:29:28,880 Speaker 3: a model of the West, and that was just like 505 00:29:29,360 --> 00:29:32,840 Speaker 3: that was less than a year after the Polish elections 506 00:29:32,840 --> 00:29:36,000 Speaker 3: of nineteen eighty nine, so like things were really happening 507 00:29:36,080 --> 00:29:41,120 Speaker 3: at a fast clip. The leader of Bulgaria retired, the 508 00:29:41,160 --> 00:29:46,320 Speaker 3: Czechoslovak government was replaced. The only place, kind of shockingly 509 00:29:46,360 --> 00:29:50,280 Speaker 3: that you had a bloody revolution was in Romania and 510 00:29:50,560 --> 00:29:51,480 Speaker 3: chou Chesq. 511 00:29:52,040 --> 00:29:56,040 Speaker 2: Yeah, took that happened in a few months in nineteen 512 00:29:56,080 --> 00:29:59,200 Speaker 2: eighty nine. All of that, all of those satellite states 513 00:29:59,280 --> 00:30:03,560 Speaker 2: just COMMUNI fell. So, I mean, I can't. I wish 514 00:30:03,600 --> 00:30:05,920 Speaker 2: i'd been a little older. I remember when the Berlin 515 00:30:06,040 --> 00:30:08,480 Speaker 2: Wall fell, and I was like, Mom, we gotta go, 516 00:30:08,560 --> 00:30:10,280 Speaker 2: We gotta get on a bread, we have to get there. 517 00:30:10,320 --> 00:30:12,800 Speaker 2: This is amazing. She wanted to so bad, but she 518 00:30:13,000 --> 00:30:13,880 Speaker 2: just we didn't. 519 00:30:15,000 --> 00:30:17,400 Speaker 3: You're like, I've always wanted to see East Germany exactly, 520 00:30:18,120 --> 00:30:19,320 Speaker 3: and this is our only chance. 521 00:30:19,600 --> 00:30:22,520 Speaker 2: Yeah, but I wish I had been a little bit 522 00:30:22,560 --> 00:30:24,600 Speaker 2: older so it could be so I could have paid 523 00:30:24,600 --> 00:30:26,960 Speaker 2: attention to this, because I can't imagine what it was 524 00:30:26,960 --> 00:30:29,760 Speaker 2: like paying attention to this over just these few months 525 00:30:30,080 --> 00:30:33,200 Speaker 2: from the time that Poland's elections were held in June 526 00:30:33,440 --> 00:30:38,000 Speaker 2: to the end of nineteen eighty nine, like just country 527 00:30:38,040 --> 00:30:41,560 Speaker 2: after countries, communist regimes fell, and like you said, only 528 00:30:41,640 --> 00:30:47,600 Speaker 2: Romania's turned bloody, and you can pretty much fully blame 529 00:30:47,680 --> 00:30:52,960 Speaker 2: the Chesky regime for starting it. They started essentially, Yeah, 530 00:30:52,960 --> 00:30:53,240 Speaker 2: he was. 531 00:30:53,160 --> 00:30:57,520 Speaker 3: The remaining dictator there, Nikolai Chochescu and his wife Elena, 532 00:30:57,600 --> 00:31:02,440 Speaker 3: who was also appointed in a high office by her husband, 533 00:31:02,480 --> 00:31:05,840 Speaker 3: so they were, you know, they were a power couple, 534 00:31:05,880 --> 00:31:10,719 Speaker 3: I guess. But they had mass protests breaking out, and 535 00:31:10,840 --> 00:31:14,360 Speaker 3: Chouceescu went to the military and he said kill them, 536 00:31:14,520 --> 00:31:17,840 Speaker 3: fire on these unarmed civilians. And he thought that would 537 00:31:17,840 --> 00:31:19,960 Speaker 3: have been like, all right, we're gonna quash this really quick. 538 00:31:20,440 --> 00:31:24,000 Speaker 3: But the military was like, bro, that's we're not into that. 539 00:31:24,480 --> 00:31:27,400 Speaker 3: And so they defected just like a few days after 540 00:31:27,440 --> 00:31:29,800 Speaker 3: he ordered them to fire upon them. Not only did 541 00:31:29,840 --> 00:31:32,800 Speaker 3: they not do that, they defected to the protester side, 542 00:31:33,360 --> 00:31:35,560 Speaker 3: and he and Elena saw their riding on the wall 543 00:31:35,600 --> 00:31:36,800 Speaker 3: and they're like, we need to get the heck out 544 00:31:36,840 --> 00:31:40,760 Speaker 3: of here. But the military caught them technically had a 545 00:31:40,760 --> 00:31:44,640 Speaker 3: military tribunal. It was pretty short form though, and they 546 00:31:44,640 --> 00:31:47,560 Speaker 3: were found guilty and executed by firing squad. 547 00:31:47,960 --> 00:31:51,000 Speaker 2: Yeah, and strung upside down by their ankles for public viewing. 548 00:31:51,680 --> 00:31:52,680 Speaker 3: Yeah, harsh stuff. 549 00:31:52,800 --> 00:31:55,080 Speaker 2: There was a rumor too, do you remember hearing this 550 00:31:55,240 --> 00:32:00,320 Speaker 2: thatches sort of thatchescus were fed to dogs. Yeah, after 551 00:32:00,360 --> 00:32:04,240 Speaker 2: they were dead, And that is a rumor. From what 552 00:32:04,480 --> 00:32:06,840 Speaker 2: I can tell, it did not happen. But the reason 553 00:32:06,880 --> 00:32:11,720 Speaker 2: that rumor came about is twofold one Chilchsky was very famous, 554 00:32:11,800 --> 00:32:15,800 Speaker 2: especially in Romania, for having appointed his favorite labrador as 555 00:32:15,800 --> 00:32:19,080 Speaker 2: a general. Yeah, so there's a dog theme with that. 556 00:32:19,760 --> 00:32:24,520 Speaker 2: And then he was blamed specifically for the terrible problem 557 00:32:24,560 --> 00:32:27,719 Speaker 2: with feral packs of dogs what used to be family 558 00:32:27,760 --> 00:32:31,800 Speaker 2: dogs roaming Romania at times, like killing children and stuff. 559 00:32:31,880 --> 00:32:34,080 Speaker 2: Right Like, it was a bad problem, and the reason 560 00:32:34,120 --> 00:32:37,880 Speaker 2: why it existed was because he had ordered a bunch 561 00:32:37,880 --> 00:32:42,440 Speaker 2: of villages bulldozed so he could build these new agritechnical centers. 562 00:32:42,800 --> 00:32:45,000 Speaker 2: And then after he bulldozed them, and before he could 563 00:32:45,000 --> 00:32:47,200 Speaker 2: build the centers, he just kind of lost interest in it, 564 00:32:47,320 --> 00:32:50,600 Speaker 2: moved on, and so a lot of people lost their homes, 565 00:32:50,720 --> 00:32:52,880 Speaker 2: so did a lot of dogs. And that's where they 566 00:32:52,880 --> 00:32:57,719 Speaker 2: got their feral dog problem from. Yeah, and then I 567 00:32:57,800 --> 00:33:00,480 Speaker 2: remember this. I will never forget it. This wasn't like 568 00:33:00,520 --> 00:33:02,920 Speaker 2: a jog my memory. I think about this joke every 569 00:33:03,680 --> 00:33:05,640 Speaker 2: I don't know, a year and a half. I would say, 570 00:33:06,080 --> 00:33:08,080 Speaker 2: Dennis Miller, Yeah, do you remember that? 571 00:33:09,400 --> 00:33:09,760 Speaker 3: I do. 572 00:33:10,160 --> 00:33:10,479 Speaker 2: I was. 573 00:33:11,000 --> 00:33:12,960 Speaker 3: I thought Dennis Miller was very, very funny when he 574 00:33:13,000 --> 00:33:14,280 Speaker 3: was the SNL news guy. 575 00:33:14,840 --> 00:33:18,400 Speaker 2: Yeah, not bad, but he was never funnier than when 576 00:33:18,440 --> 00:33:19,880 Speaker 2: he was on Monday Night football. 577 00:33:20,600 --> 00:33:24,320 Speaker 3: Oh god, yeah, what was the chowcheska joke? So? 578 00:33:24,480 --> 00:33:27,480 Speaker 2: Yeah, on Weekend Update on Sarah Live, like a couple 579 00:33:27,520 --> 00:33:31,040 Speaker 2: weeks after the chutchscues were executed and the rumor was 580 00:33:31,040 --> 00:33:33,360 Speaker 2: that they were fed to the dog, Dennis Miller said 581 00:33:33,360 --> 00:33:38,120 Speaker 2: that Purina had released a new product, puppy Chuchescu. 582 00:33:39,200 --> 00:33:40,800 Speaker 3: Yeah, you remember that one. 583 00:33:41,520 --> 00:33:42,760 Speaker 2: What happened next? 584 00:33:43,680 --> 00:33:46,880 Speaker 3: Well, I mean, this is the end of nineteen eighty nine, basically, 585 00:33:46,960 --> 00:33:49,920 Speaker 3: and the only communist state still left west of the 586 00:33:49,960 --> 00:33:54,080 Speaker 3: Soviet Union was Albania. And you know, Gorbacheff could have 587 00:33:55,920 --> 00:34:00,360 Speaker 3: like stepped in. He had a very non interventionalist way 588 00:34:00,400 --> 00:34:05,320 Speaker 3: about him. I think he knew also that like the 589 00:34:05,400 --> 00:34:07,600 Speaker 3: genie was out of the bottle and like trying to 590 00:34:08,320 --> 00:34:10,879 Speaker 3: bottle it back up as impossible and resuming the Cold 591 00:34:10,920 --> 00:34:13,960 Speaker 3: War again is a bad idea, so he stayed out 592 00:34:14,000 --> 00:34:16,839 Speaker 3: of it. And you know, it felt, like you said, 593 00:34:16,840 --> 00:34:19,040 Speaker 3: in just a handful of months, like right before the 594 00:34:19,080 --> 00:34:20,040 Speaker 3: world's eyes. 595 00:34:19,880 --> 00:34:26,399 Speaker 2: Right, and so far we're talking just satellite states already independent, 596 00:34:26,440 --> 00:34:32,040 Speaker 2: ostensibly independent nations took their independence back in nineteen eighty nine. 597 00:34:32,560 --> 00:34:36,320 Speaker 2: The USSR is still together, and Gorbatrov is not pushing 598 00:34:36,360 --> 00:34:38,759 Speaker 2: for it to break up. He's kind of trying to 599 00:34:38,760 --> 00:34:42,880 Speaker 2: figure out how to balance these reforms he just introduced 600 00:34:42,920 --> 00:34:47,000 Speaker 2: with keeping the USSR together, and it proves impossible for him. 601 00:34:48,120 --> 00:34:51,560 Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, he sees what's happening all around, and 602 00:34:53,000 --> 00:34:57,880 Speaker 3: you know, he abandoned communism. Basically he voluntarily devolved power, 603 00:34:58,440 --> 00:35:00,680 Speaker 3: which again, just all these year later, it looks like 604 00:35:00,719 --> 00:35:04,120 Speaker 3: a crazy thing to do, but just seating all that 605 00:35:04,239 --> 00:35:06,840 Speaker 3: power when all they had ever known and all the 606 00:35:06,840 --> 00:35:09,799 Speaker 3: West had ever known was just just how powerful the 607 00:35:09,840 --> 00:35:13,720 Speaker 3: Soviet Union was and controlling everything, and to just loosen 608 00:35:13,840 --> 00:35:17,920 Speaker 3: the knot on all of that was just really a 609 00:35:17,960 --> 00:35:20,120 Speaker 3: pretty wacky, wacky thing. To do. 610 00:35:20,360 --> 00:35:24,560 Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, especially unilatterally, I don't know quite enough 611 00:35:24,560 --> 00:35:27,960 Speaker 2: about modern Russian history to know who else, like who 612 00:35:28,000 --> 00:35:31,719 Speaker 2: his advisors and aids were. Yeah, yeah, So it basically 613 00:35:31,840 --> 00:35:34,400 Speaker 2: just seems like this is Gorbachev doing it himself. And 614 00:35:34,440 --> 00:35:37,640 Speaker 2: I'm sure he did have help, but in the end, 615 00:35:38,040 --> 00:35:40,880 Speaker 2: it was Gorbachev doing this himself, Like this wasn't some 616 00:35:40,960 --> 00:35:44,920 Speaker 2: coalition with other people, Like he was the head of 617 00:35:44,960 --> 00:35:49,440 Speaker 2: the Soviet the Communist Party of the Soviet Union, the CPSU, 618 00:35:49,560 --> 00:35:54,000 Speaker 2: the ruling body of the entire Eastern Bloc at one 619 00:35:54,040 --> 00:35:57,880 Speaker 2: point up until very recently. He used this position as 620 00:35:57,920 --> 00:36:01,840 Speaker 2: the head of the CPSU to do all the CPSU. 621 00:36:02,320 --> 00:36:04,920 Speaker 2: It was as simple as that. And what's that happened? 622 00:36:05,120 --> 00:36:08,320 Speaker 2: If you don't have the party who is pushing everybody 623 00:36:08,320 --> 00:36:12,600 Speaker 2: around and censoring everything, if they don't exist anymore, now, 624 00:36:12,640 --> 00:36:14,480 Speaker 2: it's a free for all. And that was what he 625 00:36:14,520 --> 00:36:17,240 Speaker 2: did at the I think the end of nineteen ninety. 626 00:36:17,840 --> 00:36:21,279 Speaker 3: Yeah, he created a what we would think of as 627 00:36:21,280 --> 00:36:23,759 Speaker 3: the House of reps in their Congress of People's Deputies 628 00:36:23,800 --> 00:36:28,520 Speaker 3: that was, you know, mostly kind of fairly elected, at 629 00:36:28,640 --> 00:36:32,239 Speaker 3: least compared to what it had been. He ended like 630 00:36:32,440 --> 00:36:34,000 Speaker 3: we said earlier, you know, he opened it up to 631 00:36:34,000 --> 00:36:37,360 Speaker 3: other political parties, which is just going to completely weaken 632 00:36:37,360 --> 00:36:40,319 Speaker 3: the grip of communism by virtue of doing that. And 633 00:36:40,360 --> 00:36:44,880 Speaker 3: then he created an office of president. He appointed himself president, 634 00:36:45,360 --> 00:36:47,680 Speaker 3: so it's not like he was elected, but this was 635 00:36:47,680 --> 00:36:49,359 Speaker 3: in March of nineteen ninety and it was a brand 636 00:36:49,440 --> 00:36:52,840 Speaker 3: new office. And you know that was that was a 637 00:36:52,880 --> 00:36:56,120 Speaker 3: big deal to have like an eventual elected president. 638 00:36:56,320 --> 00:36:59,400 Speaker 2: It was. And the reason why he did that is 639 00:36:59,440 --> 00:37:02,880 Speaker 2: because he dissolved the Communist Party, so he couldn't be 640 00:37:03,480 --> 00:37:06,440 Speaker 2: the head of the USSR because he was the head 641 00:37:06,480 --> 00:37:09,040 Speaker 2: of the Communist Party if the Communist Party didn't exist anymore. 642 00:37:09,080 --> 00:37:11,919 Speaker 2: So now he's like I call president of the USSR. 643 00:37:13,120 --> 00:37:17,000 Speaker 2: He also introduced elections, so each of the fifteen republics 644 00:37:17,000 --> 00:37:20,400 Speaker 2: had what's called the Supreme Soviet, which was their own parliament, 645 00:37:21,200 --> 00:37:24,040 Speaker 2: and he said, hey, guys, why don't you start having 646 00:37:24,120 --> 00:37:29,640 Speaker 2: free elections with alternative parties legalized, and well, let's see 647 00:37:29,640 --> 00:37:33,319 Speaker 2: what happens. I'm gorbie, I'm pretty sure that the USSR 648 00:37:33,400 --> 00:37:35,640 Speaker 2: is going to want to stay together. And I hope 649 00:37:35,640 --> 00:37:37,839 Speaker 2: you didn't put any money on that, because he would 650 00:37:37,880 --> 00:37:38,879 Speaker 2: have lost big time. 651 00:37:39,800 --> 00:37:43,279 Speaker 3: Yeah, and you know, we already covered kind of what 652 00:37:43,800 --> 00:37:47,439 Speaker 3: Poland kicked off. The Baltics really helped set a tone 653 00:37:47,480 --> 00:37:52,799 Speaker 3: as well. Pretty much immediately Lithuania said all right, six 654 00:37:52,880 --> 00:37:56,360 Speaker 3: we're seceding. We're not a part of the USSR anymore. 655 00:37:56,840 --> 00:38:00,200 Speaker 3: There's a March of nineteen ninety. Very quickly after lot 656 00:38:00,320 --> 00:38:03,000 Speaker 3: Via and Estonia said yeah, we're going to secede to 657 00:38:04,440 --> 00:38:08,520 Speaker 3: the Georgians did the Armenians did. And these were you know, 658 00:38:09,120 --> 00:38:12,239 Speaker 3: kind of small time as far as the might of 659 00:38:12,280 --> 00:38:15,360 Speaker 3: the Soviet Union, like they could have still had a 660 00:38:15,400 --> 00:38:19,759 Speaker 3: Soviet Union after this, even with these I guess secessionists. 661 00:38:20,520 --> 00:38:24,359 Speaker 3: But it was really Ukraine, Like Ukraine was and is 662 00:38:24,600 --> 00:38:28,960 Speaker 3: a very big and powerful country and just second after Russia. 663 00:38:29,040 --> 00:38:33,560 Speaker 3: And so that is a that's why you know, after Ukraine, 664 00:38:34,440 --> 00:38:36,320 Speaker 3: I think they held a referendum in ninety percent of 665 00:38:36,320 --> 00:38:40,200 Speaker 3: the voters voted for independence, and after Ukraine left, the 666 00:38:40,239 --> 00:38:42,640 Speaker 3: writing was really on the wall. But that's also why 667 00:38:42,719 --> 00:38:45,960 Speaker 3: if you just want some modern context of why Putin 668 00:38:46,040 --> 00:38:51,239 Speaker 3: has why Ukraine means so much to him personally, it 669 00:38:51,360 --> 00:38:54,440 Speaker 3: is because Putin is of the old you know, as 670 00:38:54,480 --> 00:38:57,040 Speaker 3: we'll see later, when he came into power it was 671 00:38:57,040 --> 00:38:59,640 Speaker 3: on a wave of nostalgia for the old days, and 672 00:39:00,080 --> 00:39:04,000 Speaker 3: Ukraine leaving was a real big thorn in his side 673 00:39:04,040 --> 00:39:06,400 Speaker 3: and just the side of sort of their history, the 674 00:39:06,440 --> 00:39:07,160 Speaker 3: Soviet history. 675 00:39:07,600 --> 00:39:11,319 Speaker 2: Yeah, he said publicly that it's ridiculous Estonia is an 676 00:39:11,320 --> 00:39:15,160 Speaker 2: independent country. Like he does not see these as independent countries. 677 00:39:15,200 --> 00:39:18,520 Speaker 2: He sees them as republics of the Soviet Union that 678 00:39:18,560 --> 00:39:22,279 Speaker 2: should be brought back together with Russia. Right, And that's 679 00:39:22,280 --> 00:39:24,520 Speaker 2: what happened. I mean, this is so nineteen eighty nine 680 00:39:24,560 --> 00:39:27,120 Speaker 2: you saw the satellite states break out of the Eastern Bloc, 681 00:39:27,400 --> 00:39:30,680 Speaker 2: and then now nineteen ninety to nineteen ninety one, now 682 00:39:30,719 --> 00:39:34,560 Speaker 2: it's happening with republics like actual the actual Soviet Union 683 00:39:34,600 --> 00:39:37,480 Speaker 2: is starting to break up because the republic states are 684 00:39:37,520 --> 00:39:40,400 Speaker 2: now saying we're independent, we're not part of the USSR anymore. 685 00:39:40,560 --> 00:39:45,440 Speaker 2: And now now everyone's looking to Russia, which, being a 686 00:39:45,480 --> 00:39:49,120 Speaker 2: Cold War kid, I always basically used Russia and the 687 00:39:49,120 --> 00:39:54,400 Speaker 2: Soviet Union as interchangeable. But Russia was a republic of 688 00:39:54,440 --> 00:39:57,120 Speaker 2: the Soviet Union, far and away the most powerful one. 689 00:39:57,200 --> 00:39:59,759 Speaker 2: That's where the seat of Soviet government was. But it 690 00:39:59,840 --> 00:40:04,000 Speaker 2: was still a republic just like Latvia and Estonia and 691 00:40:04,080 --> 00:40:06,200 Speaker 2: so now everybody's like, Okay, what are you going to do? 692 00:40:06,280 --> 00:40:08,120 Speaker 2: You guys are going to try to carry on as 693 00:40:08,480 --> 00:40:10,680 Speaker 2: your own kind of Soviet Union, You're going to start 694 00:40:10,680 --> 00:40:13,719 Speaker 2: World War three? What's going on next? And I say, 695 00:40:13,840 --> 00:40:16,080 Speaker 2: chuck that we end this episode here. 696 00:40:16,680 --> 00:40:19,640 Speaker 3: Yeah, it's the end of part one, everybody, And as 697 00:40:19,840 --> 00:40:22,160 Speaker 3: per tradition, we don't do listener mails at the end 698 00:40:22,200 --> 00:40:26,520 Speaker 3: of a part one. I think we just say, you know, 699 00:40:27,640 --> 00:40:28,600 Speaker 3: tune in on Thursday. 700 00:40:28,680 --> 00:40:31,320 Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, we go out and stunned silence. 701 00:40:32,320 --> 00:40:34,239 Speaker 3: I feel like, don't do we usually say anything? It's 702 00:40:34,239 --> 00:40:36,239 Speaker 3: been so long. Aren't you the one that handles this? 703 00:40:36,400 --> 00:40:38,200 Speaker 2: Yeah? Yeah, I know. But it's fun watching. 704 00:40:39,960 --> 00:40:42,399 Speaker 3: So thank you everybody, and we'll be back with part 705 00:40:42,440 --> 00:40:44,840 Speaker 3: two of the dissolution of the Soviet Union. 706 00:40:45,120 --> 00:40:46,759 Speaker 2: That was great, But don't forget to tell them what 707 00:40:46,800 --> 00:40:47,840 Speaker 2: our email addresses. 708 00:40:48,560 --> 00:40:49,520 Speaker 3: Oh do we have to do that? 709 00:40:50,120 --> 00:40:50,879 Speaker 2: We usually do? 710 00:40:51,640 --> 00:40:51,960 Speaker 3: All right? 711 00:40:52,040 --> 00:40:52,480 Speaker 2: What is it? 712 00:40:52,520 --> 00:40:58,200 Speaker 3: I Heart Stuff podcast at iHeartMedia dot com, iHeartRadio, iHeartRadio. 713 00:40:58,239 --> 00:40:59,879 Speaker 3: I see I never say it. This is your job. 714 00:41:00,120 --> 00:41:00,719 Speaker 2: You did great? 715 00:41:01,680 --> 00:41:05,000 Speaker 3: All right, we'll see everyone Thursday. 716 00:41:06,160 --> 00:41:09,000 Speaker 1: Stuff you Should Know is a production of iHeartRadio. For 717 00:41:09,120 --> 00:41:13,279 Speaker 1: more podcasts my Heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, 718 00:41:13,400 --> 00:41:15,240 Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.