WEBVTT - I Am Not My Hair 0:00:11.840 --> 0:00:14.400 Good morning, peep Sen. Welcome to bokay FP Daily with 0:00:14.520 --> 0:00:19.200 Meet your Girl Danielle Moody. Recording from the Bunker, Folks. 0:00:19.200 --> 0:00:23.599 I'm really excited about today's episode. Once again, we are 0:00:23.880 --> 0:00:27.920 celebrating Pride this month as we knock out the next 0:00:28.000 --> 0:00:32.480 couple of days of June that is left and today's episode, 0:00:33.520 --> 0:00:36.840 I am talking with the host of the podcast Edges, 0:00:37.240 --> 0:00:40.960 which is all about black hair and healing from my guests, 0:00:41.120 --> 0:00:44.200 Chantey Howell, and we are doing this kind of mash 0:00:44.320 --> 0:00:47.920 up crossover episode where you know, you may hear news 0:00:47.920 --> 0:00:51.479 stories about me as well as things that she asked 0:00:51.800 --> 0:00:55.680 that I shared with her and vice versa. So I 0:00:55.720 --> 0:00:59.320 hope that you will enjoy this episode as always, um 0:01:00.080 --> 0:01:03.320 side note, side note. If you want my hot takes 0:01:03.400 --> 0:01:08.399 on the latest installment of the one six commission the hearings, 0:01:08.520 --> 0:01:11.120 head over to Twitter at D two cents d E 0:01:11.160 --> 0:01:13.560 t woc E N T asked. Because I am there 0:01:13.640 --> 0:01:16.319 and I am live, you know what I will say 0:01:16.400 --> 0:01:19.679 about that. And then coming up next is this conversation 0:01:19.760 --> 0:01:22.959 with Sean Tay Howell. It is really disturbing to me 0:01:23.720 --> 0:01:27.080 to continue to listen to all the ways in which 0:01:27.160 --> 0:01:31.000 Donald Trump and everybody around him, all of his There 0:01:31.080 --> 0:01:33.800 was no fucking team normal and team not Normal. They 0:01:33.800 --> 0:01:36.000 were all on the same team, which was Team Trump 0:01:36.040 --> 0:01:40.240 and Trumpism, which is about destroying democracy, which is about 0:01:40.280 --> 0:01:46.040 creating fundamentalist Christian you know, state and authoritarianism. And so 0:01:46.080 --> 0:01:47.760 there were some people that were willing to break the 0:01:47.840 --> 0:01:49.440 law for it, and there were other people that were 0:01:49.440 --> 0:01:52.560 willing to bend the law. But the reality here is 0:01:52.600 --> 0:01:54.560 that I don't think that anything is really going to 0:01:54.640 --> 0:01:57.160 come up this. I think that sure the Department of 0:01:57.200 --> 0:02:01.320 Justice has asked for you know, all of the testimonies 0:02:01.720 --> 0:02:04.480 that they have seen, the thousands of pages of documents. 0:02:04.520 --> 0:02:08.200 You heard the commissions say that they will cooperate so 0:02:08.240 --> 0:02:12.480 as not to interfere with an ongoing criminal investigation. We 0:02:12.560 --> 0:02:15.000 all see that Donald Trump is going to throw John 0:02:15.000 --> 0:02:17.440 Eastman under the bus, but Donald Trump throws everybody under 0:02:17.480 --> 0:02:19.880 the bus but himself. We know the same thing is 0:02:19.880 --> 0:02:22.600 going to be true with Giuliani. But the clear mastermind 0:02:22.639 --> 0:02:25.440 behind this is Donald Trump. And do I think that 0:02:25.480 --> 0:02:27.520 white men in power are going to hold other white 0:02:27.520 --> 0:02:30.120 men in power accountable? Like I said on Twitter this week, No, 0:02:30.200 --> 0:02:33.400 the fuck I don't, right, because that's not how this 0:02:33.520 --> 0:02:36.400 legal system was created. The legal system was created for 0:02:36.480 --> 0:02:39.240 white men with power to hold that power and to 0:02:39.360 --> 0:02:43.400 preserve their property right, whether that be an actual fucking person, 0:02:43.919 --> 0:02:47.840 as was the concept when the Constitution was written, or 0:02:48.080 --> 0:02:52.400 be a fucking building. But I don't see how this 0:02:52.480 --> 0:02:55.920 is going to turn out to benefit really anyone. And 0:02:56.000 --> 0:02:58.640 what we continue to see as the Supreme Court makes 0:02:58.800 --> 0:03:01.160 decision after the decision, and as we get down to 0:03:01.200 --> 0:03:04.760 the Rugby Wade decision, is that they are willing to 0:03:04.800 --> 0:03:08.880 erode any separation we had between church and state, any 0:03:08.919 --> 0:03:12.640 autonomy that women and people with uteruses have been able 0:03:12.680 --> 0:03:16.560 to attain. That they are willing to gut the voting 0:03:16.639 --> 0:03:21.040 rights that they're willing to prescribe everyone in America within 0:03:21.160 --> 0:03:24.800 AAR fifteen. That that seems to be the only constitutional 0:03:25.000 --> 0:03:27.359 amendment that matters and the only thing that they are 0:03:27.400 --> 0:03:30.240 willing to hold up. So as we watch our country 0:03:30.320 --> 0:03:34.920 continue to just enter into its dismal demise, the America 0:03:35.000 --> 0:03:37.440 turns to the dark ages, as the rest of the 0:03:37.480 --> 0:03:41.200 world will begin to lap us in terms of creativity, innovation, 0:03:41.240 --> 0:03:44.800 and all of those things, because that doesn't come from oppression, right, 0:03:44.880 --> 0:03:48.000 Those things don't come from oppression, but they will learn 0:03:48.120 --> 0:03:52.960 that the hard way, as is with white fundamentalists radicalized America, 0:03:53.000 --> 0:03:54.920 that the only way that they do learn is the 0:03:54.960 --> 0:03:58.840 hard way. So if as you're listening to these Pride 0:03:58.840 --> 0:04:02.200 shows you're wondering what is Danielle thinking about X do 0:04:02.640 --> 0:04:05.440 check me out on Twitter and on TikTok. I took 0:04:05.480 --> 0:04:09.160 a brief respite from TikTok, but I will be back 0:04:09.200 --> 0:04:12.480 this week. And speaking of respites, I will make an 0:04:12.480 --> 0:04:15.920 announcement here and then tomorrow on Instagram. I am taking 0:04:15.960 --> 0:04:19.719 a break from Woke Wednesdays for the summer. I am 0:04:19.760 --> 0:04:23.640 putting my mental health on top, back where it belongs. 0:04:23.680 --> 0:04:27.240 And I realize that how raw and how vulnerable and 0:04:27.320 --> 0:04:30.320 how angry I get on Woke Wednesdays. While it does 0:04:30.360 --> 0:04:33.640 provide other people with a place to share their own 0:04:33.680 --> 0:04:36.360 grief and their angst, and it is not healthy for me. 0:04:36.920 --> 0:04:40.360 And so I'm giving myself a little mini vacation. I'm 0:04:40.400 --> 0:04:43.760 not ending Woke Wednesdays forever, but I'm giving myself a 0:04:43.800 --> 0:04:46.520 summer vacation right now because I need it. It is 0:04:46.520 --> 0:04:50.520 a lot to record five shows every week, six if 0:04:50.560 --> 0:04:55.040 you count Democracy Issue, my other podcast, and so adding 0:04:55.080 --> 0:04:58.640 in a seventh, which is Woke Wednesday, half hour of 0:04:58.720 --> 0:05:01.880 just ranting. Something had to give and I'd rather not 0:05:02.040 --> 0:05:04.640 be my mental health and wellbeing, and I don't want 0:05:04.680 --> 0:05:07.640 to take away anything from Woke a f or from 0:05:07.680 --> 0:05:11.480 democracy ish, So I'm putting Woke Wednesday on the shelf. 0:05:11.800 --> 0:05:13.800 But know that I post all the time on all 0:05:13.880 --> 0:05:17.159 of social media, so I'm still there. I'm just giving 0:05:17.160 --> 0:05:19.960 myself a bit of a break, all right, friends. Coming 0:05:20.040 --> 0:05:24.719 up next my conversation with the host of Edges, another 0:05:24.960 --> 0:05:32.720 DCP entertainment podcast, Shante Howell. Hope you enjoy, folks. I 0:05:32.760 --> 0:05:37.160 am very excited to welcome to Woke f We are 0:05:37.279 --> 0:05:42.440 doing a cross over two podcasters, two black queer women 0:05:42.680 --> 0:05:47.039 during pride doing the most, trying to heal, trying to 0:05:47.080 --> 0:05:50.520 get ourselves together and keep ourselves sane. I am joined 0:05:50.680 --> 0:05:54.599 by my fellow podcasters Shante Howell, who is the host 0:05:55.040 --> 0:06:00.479 of Edges. Shanta, tell everyone, your folks are already know. 0:06:00.720 --> 0:06:03.880 We're introducing you to our will gayf audience. Tell us 0:06:03.880 --> 0:06:06.080 the premise of Edges because I just love it so 0:06:06.160 --> 0:06:09.760 much and I love your title. Oh, thank you so much, 0:06:10.400 --> 0:06:12.120 and thank you for having me. I'm so excited to 0:06:12.160 --> 0:06:15.520 be here, and yeah, so Edges basically was born out 0:06:15.520 --> 0:06:17.440 of all the things that I've dealt with with my hair. 0:06:18.200 --> 0:06:20.200 When I was sixteen, it caught on fire and I 0:06:20.240 --> 0:06:22.160 was like, I finally got to just like cut this 0:06:22.200 --> 0:06:25.080 shit off and come out. And things did not happen 0:06:25.160 --> 0:06:26.919 the way I intended it too, and it kind of 0:06:27.000 --> 0:06:29.920 unveiled into this whole story of how I came into 0:06:30.000 --> 0:06:32.279 myself and my understanding of who I am and what 0:06:32.360 --> 0:06:34.200 I want in the world kind of through this lens 0:06:34.200 --> 0:06:36.640 of my hair, and it being this kind of yeah, 0:06:36.720 --> 0:06:39.080 almost like a conduit for that happening in ways that 0:06:39.120 --> 0:06:42.480 I didn't expect. So told a little bit too much 0:06:42.480 --> 0:06:45.120 of my own business, told some things that I still 0:06:45.120 --> 0:06:46.960 haven't talked to my mom about, so we'll say when 0:06:47.000 --> 0:06:49.040 that happens, And then also got to talk to other 0:06:49.080 --> 0:06:51.680 folks who identify as square, who have had their own 0:06:51.720 --> 0:06:54.359 hair experiences and just had a ton of solidarity for 0:06:54.960 --> 0:06:57.800 the kind of shared love of the Rhanna pixie cut 0:06:57.839 --> 0:06:59.640 and all of the different things in between that kind 0:06:59.640 --> 0:07:02.080 of lead us to where we got. You know, it's 0:07:02.080 --> 0:07:07.520 so funny because my hair I've always considered as being 0:07:08.040 --> 0:07:11.840 really a part of my identity as a black woman, 0:07:12.320 --> 0:07:15.680 but not necessarily as a part of my queerness. I 0:07:15.720 --> 0:07:19.520 didn't cut my hair off, and I always understood even 0:07:19.600 --> 0:07:22.440 you know, white women who were queer that would come 0:07:22.480 --> 0:07:24.600 out and they would cut their hair off as like 0:07:24.720 --> 0:07:28.440 an affront to patriarchy, right is I mean I'm saying 0:07:28.440 --> 0:07:30.480 that that That's how I saw it, And I know 0:07:30.520 --> 0:07:33.360 a lot of queer women who have always been like, yeah, 0:07:33.400 --> 0:07:35.120 I don't I don't need this hair. This is not 0:07:35.160 --> 0:07:37.680 my crown and kind of, you know, the pushback from 0:07:37.680 --> 0:07:42.040 the biblical understanding of what was femininity and what was womanness? 0:07:42.080 --> 0:07:45.440 So for you, what is what? What was that kind 0:07:45.480 --> 0:07:48.160 of part and parcel outside of the tragedy of your 0:07:48.200 --> 0:07:52.480 hair catching on fire? Because good God, but like, what 0:07:53.120 --> 0:07:58.160 was how was your blackness and your queerness tied into 0:07:58.600 --> 0:08:02.400 your hair? Yeah? I think for me it was almost 0:08:02.440 --> 0:08:06.160 wanting for it to be something that was unspoken. I 0:08:06.200 --> 0:08:08.920 think that I grew up kind of having to explain 0:08:08.960 --> 0:08:10.920 a lot of different parts of myself. So my family's 0:08:10.920 --> 0:08:13.800 also Jamaican. In my younger years, I used to have 0:08:13.840 --> 0:08:16.080 an accent. Oh my gosh, I who kid in what 0:08:16.200 --> 0:08:20.000 part my family is from? Trelawney Okay, I grew I 0:08:20.080 --> 0:08:22.280 was born in the United States, but my parents were 0:08:22.280 --> 0:08:25.320 born in Jamaica, as my grandparents and everybody else, Okay, same. 0:08:25.640 --> 0:08:27.960 My family is in Saint Thomas where all the goats 0:08:28.000 --> 0:08:30.800 kind of where I'm like squirrels. So yeah, that's something 0:08:30.840 --> 0:08:33.160 that I'm doing, hair into it in my heart and 0:08:33.200 --> 0:08:34.960 then something that I had to explain a lot. And 0:08:34.960 --> 0:08:37.319 so I felt like at that point in time, with 0:08:37.400 --> 0:08:39.400 kind of the excuse of my hair caching on fire, 0:08:39.720 --> 0:08:43.400 I wanted to be myself without having to explain that. 0:08:43.520 --> 0:08:45.800 And I felt like, you know, it was a time 0:08:45.840 --> 0:08:48.079 in my life where if my hair was longer, if 0:08:48.080 --> 0:08:50.400 I did have my frow, it would be another thing 0:08:50.440 --> 0:08:52.440 that I would have to explain to people about myself. 0:08:52.480 --> 0:08:55.280 And I wasn't necessarily consciously thinking of like how do 0:08:55.360 --> 0:08:58.800 I feel my most self in general and as an 0:08:58.880 --> 0:09:00.800 artist and as someone who like to make things. So 0:09:00.840 --> 0:09:03.240 I think that's something that I've had to come to 0:09:03.400 --> 0:09:07.000 terms with, and the just regular process of coming out 0:09:07.040 --> 0:09:08.920 over and over again, like starting a new job and 0:09:08.960 --> 0:09:11.839 someone asking like, who is your husband and having to 0:09:11.920 --> 0:09:14.079 explain like I am not merely to a man, and 0:09:14.200 --> 0:09:17.520 having that conversation over and over again. You know, I 0:09:17.559 --> 0:09:20.600 can remember the conversation as clear as day. Both of 0:09:20.640 --> 0:09:24.400 my grandparents have since passed away, but I remember when 0:09:25.040 --> 0:09:27.640 when I was graduating from college, I had I had 0:09:28.000 --> 0:09:30.960 two strand twists that I was getting ready to um 0:09:31.400 --> 0:09:35.600 my stylist to turn into locks. You know, we were 0:09:35.679 --> 0:09:39.559 starting it from two strand twists. And my Jamaican grandparents 0:09:39.960 --> 0:09:45.000 were beside themselves that I would think that I'm getting 0:09:45.000 --> 0:09:48.720 ready to enter into professional society and this was the 0:09:48.840 --> 0:09:52.199 choice that I was making. My grandfather was like where 0:09:52.200 --> 0:09:54.640 are you going to work? Like where? Like who is 0:09:54.720 --> 0:09:58.040 going to accept you as like a professional if this 0:09:58.120 --> 0:10:00.920 is what you're doing? And I, because I was like 0:10:01.000 --> 0:10:05.520 their own, their only contextualization of locks at that time 0:10:05.720 --> 0:10:08.960 were Rastafarians, Like that was it? It was like the 0:10:09.080 --> 0:10:15.400 this counterculture you know, um understanding for them it was counterculture. 0:10:15.400 --> 0:10:17.959 It's not, but for them it was. And so they 0:10:17.960 --> 0:10:20.840 were just like this association like I just don't understand, 0:10:20.920 --> 0:10:23.640 like how you're going to go about that? Um? And 0:10:23.720 --> 0:10:27.839 so I remember growing up with there being a lot 0:10:27.920 --> 0:10:31.719 of judgment around hair, right, like the good hair than 0:10:31.800 --> 0:10:35.720 not good hair than this, and the that, um what 0:10:35.760 --> 0:10:38.960 was it? Was? It? The same for for you was 0:10:39.000 --> 0:10:44.000 that was was there were there fights? Uh? Yeah, I 0:10:44.000 --> 0:10:46.319 didn't have some fights. Um. I would say I had 0:10:46.360 --> 0:10:48.360 more judgment on my mom when I got a weave 0:10:48.400 --> 0:10:50.480 and she called it horse hair. But I think a 0:10:50.520 --> 0:10:53.240 lot of the fights that we have were just around 0:10:53.240 --> 0:10:56.439 me wanting to express myself through hair. So I did braids, 0:10:56.480 --> 0:10:58.600 I did all the things, um, and I would often 0:10:58.640 --> 0:11:00.360 just like take my hair out and put it in affron. 0:11:00.440 --> 0:11:02.400 It was different than how she sent me to school. 0:11:02.400 --> 0:11:06.120 And I think that kind of form of just expressing 0:11:06.120 --> 0:11:08.480 myself in a different way through my hair. Like right now, 0:11:08.520 --> 0:11:10.280 the red twist, they're not as bright as they've been 0:11:10.320 --> 0:11:13.240 in the past. But you know, my family calls me 0:11:13.280 --> 0:11:16.120 a fire engine at times, and I think just the 0:11:16.480 --> 0:11:20.600 sense of wanting to see yourself as you see yourself 0:11:20.600 --> 0:11:23.520 within it's definitely something that can be a conflict with 0:11:23.600 --> 0:11:26.800 the ways that family see that. Yeah, And I'm curious 0:11:26.880 --> 0:11:29.720 to know, like, what what was your decision process like 0:11:30.200 --> 0:11:34.280 going into locks despite having that kind of societal impression 0:11:34.400 --> 0:11:36.960 from your grandparents. Well, I'm going to be honest with you. 0:11:37.000 --> 0:11:41.920 Initially it was laziness. I was just tired. I was 0:11:42.000 --> 0:11:44.480 tired of doing braids. I was tired of the perm. 0:11:44.600 --> 0:11:48.000 I was tired of figuring out what to do with 0:11:48.040 --> 0:11:51.120 my natural hair. And I had always loved locks and 0:11:51.160 --> 0:11:55.079 I'd seen you know, so many different iterations from micro's. 0:11:55.160 --> 0:11:57.400 And I don't even think at that time, because I'm older, 0:11:57.679 --> 0:12:00.400 that they had sister locks, so maybe they weren't called that, 0:12:00.559 --> 0:12:03.720 but UM, I just knew that I always thought that 0:12:03.720 --> 0:12:06.840 they were beautiful and that it was something that I 0:12:06.880 --> 0:12:09.240 remember my mother also saying, well, what are you going 0:12:09.320 --> 0:12:10.680 to do if you want to change your hair? And 0:12:10.720 --> 0:12:13.320 I was just like, I'll cut it like everybody, like 0:12:13.400 --> 0:12:16.640 everybody else does. Um. And so for me, it was 0:12:16.679 --> 0:12:20.800 just that feeling of I knew who I was becoming, 0:12:21.960 --> 0:12:24.080 and I knew what I wanted and what I didn't 0:12:24.120 --> 0:12:27.560 want to prescribe to anymore. But the reason why I 0:12:27.640 --> 0:12:31.480 had done two strand twists to grow you know, to 0:12:31.600 --> 0:12:34.600 grow out like what was left of a perm that 0:12:34.679 --> 0:12:37.160 I you know, that i'd had, and um kind of 0:12:37.200 --> 0:12:40.120 get away from the damage that also the braids had 0:12:40.160 --> 0:12:44.360 caused my hair. UM I wanted I didn't start my 0:12:44.679 --> 0:12:49.880 locks from like you know, little tiny tiny um uh twists. 0:12:49.960 --> 0:12:52.160 They were they were down to my chin. So I 0:12:52.200 --> 0:12:54.720 also think that that was like a different So when 0:12:54.720 --> 0:12:57.600 my grandparents and my family kind of started to see 0:12:57.800 --> 0:13:00.199 how the process was coming along, they're like, oh, it's 0:13:00.240 --> 0:13:04.360 still long, which again associates with this idea of like, oh, 0:13:04.400 --> 0:13:08.920 you know, she's still feminine, right, but you know me 0:13:09.120 --> 0:13:12.880 coming out as well. To my family, I have always 0:13:12.920 --> 0:13:17.520 been you know, feminine presenting. So for them it was 0:13:17.640 --> 0:13:20.960 never like, well, what is she going to look like now? 0:13:21.000 --> 0:13:22.760 It was just like, no, you still know me. This 0:13:22.960 --> 0:13:25.400 is what I look like. I just happened to like women, 0:13:26.520 --> 0:13:30.439 so yeah, yeah, And I think just the room for 0:13:30.480 --> 0:13:33.360 that to change as well as something that I'm contending 0:13:33.400 --> 0:13:35.240 with a lot, Like I think I get a lot 0:13:35.240 --> 0:13:39.319 of questions from my family about like as relationship things 0:13:39.600 --> 0:13:42.520 kind of progress through life, like oh are you are you? This? 0:13:42.600 --> 0:13:44.200 Are you that? How do you define yourself? And I 0:13:44.240 --> 0:13:46.840 think what I heard a lot too and having conversations 0:13:46.840 --> 0:13:49.920 with people is like, the hair decisions aren't necessarily always 0:13:49.960 --> 0:13:53.600 about identity. Oftentimes they're about convenience and ease of life 0:13:53.600 --> 0:13:57.120 and having other things that are priority and not wanting 0:13:57.280 --> 0:14:00.160 for hair to be something that is a burden, as 0:14:00.160 --> 0:14:01.800 our hair is beautiful and we want it to be 0:14:01.840 --> 0:14:04.079 something that reflects us, but it also can take time. 0:14:04.920 --> 0:14:07.360 And that's something that I just sense, like a weight 0:14:07.520 --> 0:14:10.400 off my shoulders in that acceptance of self of like 0:14:10.960 --> 0:14:14.960 not needing to put that much, like prescribe that much 0:14:14.960 --> 0:14:17.520 meaning to it, but also letting it mean that much 0:14:17.520 --> 0:14:20.560 to me and not being okay, it's no secret that 0:14:20.640 --> 0:14:23.960 the news is horsepill hard to swallow. Thankfully, there's The 0:14:24.000 --> 0:14:28.680 Bituation Room podcast hosted by comedian and commentator Francesca Freer 0:14:28.800 --> 0:14:31.400 and Tiny for a lighter take on the heavy staff. 0:14:31.440 --> 0:14:35.280 Each week, The Bituation Room brings you progressive comedians, experts, 0:14:35.280 --> 0:14:37.400 and activists to break down the issues in a way 0:14:37.480 --> 0:14:40.160 that won't just leave you crying under a weighted blanket. 0:14:40.280 --> 0:14:43.920 Get The Bituation Room on Apple, Podcasts, Spotify, Stitcher, and 0:14:44.040 --> 0:14:50.280 streaming on YouTube and Twitch. Get a behind the scenes 0:14:50.320 --> 0:14:53.440 look at Comedy Central's The Daily Show on Beyond the Scenes, 0:14:53.480 --> 0:14:56.160 an original podcast from the Daily Show with Trevor Noah. 0:14:56.280 --> 0:14:58.680 Every week, host Roy Wood Junior goes deeper with the 0:14:58.760 --> 0:15:02.160 notable guests, an expert from the Emmy Award winning series. Together, 0:15:02.240 --> 0:15:05.320 they use comedy to tackle current topics from gentrification to 0:15:05.400 --> 0:15:07.440 gun laws and take a closer look at how and 0:15:07.520 --> 0:15:10.240 why these topics matter. Listen to Beyond the Scenes from 0:15:10.240 --> 0:15:12.880 The Daily Show with Trevor Noah on the iHeartRadio app, 0:15:12.920 --> 0:15:16.320 Apple Podcast or wherever you get your podcast. New episodes 0:15:16.360 --> 0:15:21.920 every Tuesday. Yeah. I think it's always so interesting because 0:15:21.920 --> 0:15:26.560 I have so many black women friends, some queer, some straight, 0:15:26.680 --> 0:15:32.000 some non binary, who all have different you know, understandings 0:15:32.040 --> 0:15:34.680 of their connection to their hair. Some have had the 0:15:34.720 --> 0:15:39.160 same hairstyle for twenty thirty years, others change it up 0:15:39.240 --> 0:15:44.320 literally every week, right, And I think that for black women, ultimately, 0:15:44.360 --> 0:15:47.000 it is about freedom. Right, It's about the choice to 0:15:47.040 --> 0:15:49.800 be able to present how I feel like presenting, whether 0:15:49.840 --> 0:15:53.120 I change that from Monday to Wednesday or it has 0:15:53.240 --> 0:15:56.640 been the same, um, you know, for for decades. I 0:15:56.680 --> 0:16:00.440 think that it is about the freedom of expression. And 0:16:00.480 --> 0:16:02.760 so like now that I'm thinking about it, and I'm like, oh, 0:16:02.840 --> 0:16:06.600 maybe there was like a deeper connectedness to you know, 0:16:06.800 --> 0:16:10.080 when I was coming out. I was also when I 0:16:10.120 --> 0:16:12.400 was coming out for like the last time. I always 0:16:12.400 --> 0:16:15.000 say the last time because it was I consider my 0:16:15.040 --> 0:16:18.240 parents the last people that I came out to. Like 0:16:18.640 --> 0:16:21.120 throughout life, I don't really care about recom you know, 0:16:21.240 --> 0:16:23.960 recoming out. But when I came out to them, I 0:16:24.080 --> 0:16:26.440 was twenty one, and that was the same time that 0:16:26.480 --> 0:16:30.640 I was going on this the beginnings of the Locke's Journey. 0:16:30.760 --> 0:16:33.800 So maybe there was correlation that I actually have an 0:16:33.880 --> 0:16:39.479 unpacked um to that sense from me of independence, independence 0:16:39.560 --> 0:16:42.480 from who I was, who you thought I was, and 0:16:42.560 --> 0:16:46.720 now I'm defining myself in these different physical iterations as 0:16:46.760 --> 0:16:50.280 well as like identity wise about who I am. So 0:16:50.320 --> 0:16:52.640 maybe there was a reclamation and that I never thought 0:16:52.640 --> 0:17:00.640 about that. Shane so much beyond that too, Like at 0:17:00.680 --> 0:17:02.440 some point in time, I dyed my hair red and 0:17:02.480 --> 0:17:05.720 that was a huge career trans transition for me too. 0:17:05.720 --> 0:17:07.360 And I think there's so many ways in which it's 0:17:07.400 --> 0:17:09.840 like we have the conversation about the big chop or 0:17:09.880 --> 0:17:12.359 locks or whatever have you, and all of these little 0:17:12.359 --> 0:17:14.840 decisions that we make with our hair actually means so 0:17:14.920 --> 0:17:18.640 much more than we could ever realize. And that kind 0:17:18.680 --> 0:17:21.240 of makes me curious about where you've gone since the Bob, 0:17:21.280 --> 0:17:24.680 because he started with the bomb. Yeah, and I'm gonna 0:17:24.680 --> 0:17:26.760 tell you so this is so funny because I don't 0:17:26.760 --> 0:17:28.600 think that I've ever talked about this on the show, 0:17:29.160 --> 0:17:33.360 so my locks used to be. For the longest time, 0:17:33.400 --> 0:17:36.040 I'd never cut them. From when I started growing them 0:17:36.040 --> 0:17:41.600 in two thousand and one until twenty nineteen, I never 0:17:41.640 --> 0:17:46.240 cut my hair. So my locks were literally and I 0:17:46.320 --> 0:17:48.399 used to wear them curly, so they were you know, 0:17:48.640 --> 0:17:51.640 I used to do the flexy rods and you look 0:17:51.640 --> 0:17:54.359 at older pitches of me, it looks like they're past 0:17:54.480 --> 0:17:57.160 my shoulders, but my hair was actually down to my butt. 0:17:57.920 --> 0:18:01.119 And what ended up happening is, you know, as folks 0:18:01.160 --> 0:18:04.480 do know, UM, I got a divorce two years ago, 0:18:04.840 --> 0:18:08.400 and a part of that divorce, UM, going through that 0:18:08.440 --> 0:18:16.679 separation process, I cut twelve inches of my hair off. 0:18:17.160 --> 0:18:18.959 I was like, I'm like looking at my hair right now, 0:18:19.000 --> 0:18:21.800 and I'm imagine I'm like, I cut twelve inches of 0:18:21.920 --> 0:18:24.800 my hair off. I remember my stylus and I we 0:18:24.880 --> 0:18:27.720 did it in like two sessions, right, because I didn't 0:18:27.760 --> 0:18:31.480 want like the shock, right, So we did like six inches, 0:18:31.560 --> 0:18:33.920 and then I came back and we did another six inches. 0:18:34.240 --> 0:18:36.000 And then I've cut it since. You know, I've cut 0:18:36.000 --> 0:18:38.760 it again since, but more so to like even things out, 0:18:39.440 --> 0:18:43.120 and I stopped doing it curly. So it was like 0:18:43.200 --> 0:18:47.920 for me, that was the kind of the death of 0:18:48.080 --> 0:18:52.359 that version of me, um of that of that person 0:18:52.440 --> 0:18:56.480 that was married. Of what what the preconceived notions were, 0:18:56.840 --> 0:18:59.359 what all of that weight? Because I do believe and 0:18:59.680 --> 0:19:02.959 this is something that again didn't come to me as 0:19:03.080 --> 0:19:06.080 a young person when I was starting the journey. But 0:19:06.200 --> 0:19:08.400 you know how you would always hear how your hair 0:19:08.480 --> 0:19:11.880 holds energy, and how in certain cultures they wrap their 0:19:11.920 --> 0:19:15.560 hair and all of these different things because of you know, 0:19:15.640 --> 0:19:20.000 because of the energy that it holds. And that was 0:19:20.160 --> 0:19:23.080 very true as I was going through my divorce. It 0:19:23.160 --> 0:19:27.320 was a shedding that really need that I really needed 0:19:27.400 --> 0:19:31.760 to have of this other version of myself. And I 0:19:31.800 --> 0:19:36.840 referred to her actually in a short creative writing piece 0:19:36.880 --> 0:19:40.160 that I did last year with this group called Generation Women, 0:19:40.320 --> 0:19:43.400 I referred to her as all to D and so 0:19:43.440 --> 0:19:47.560 the alternative Danielle, the alternative D. And yeah, I just 0:19:48.040 --> 0:19:51.119 it was time to put her to rest. And that's 0:19:51.160 --> 0:19:52.960 what it and that's what it looked like to me. 0:19:53.080 --> 0:19:57.200 It looked like changing, you know, this outward appearance that 0:19:57.640 --> 0:20:02.040 had become a signifier. People would recognize me, you know, 0:20:02.400 --> 0:20:05.280 from TV, from whatever because of the curly locks and 0:20:05.680 --> 0:20:07.520 you know, in the long, big hair, and I was, 0:20:07.720 --> 0:20:10.200 and I was done with that. I wanted I wanted 0:20:10.240 --> 0:20:13.640 to reinvent. Yeah, you're like, I am I am not 0:20:13.720 --> 0:20:17.639 just I am not my ye, but I'm not my hair. Yeah, 0:20:17.680 --> 0:20:21.360 and yet it's such a big like I am, I 0:20:21.400 --> 0:20:23.320 feel very much the opposite where I'm like, if you 0:20:23.320 --> 0:20:25.280 see me in these streets, if you see my red twist, 0:20:25.320 --> 0:20:28.040 you know it's me. Um. So it's just interesting to 0:20:28.080 --> 0:20:31.600 think about that like spectrum of yeah, just relating to 0:20:31.640 --> 0:20:33.720 what it means and what you want it to mean 0:20:33.760 --> 0:20:36.640 to you and if it's okay for me to ask, 0:20:36.680 --> 0:20:38.919 I'm curious to know, like, what are the parts of 0:20:38.960 --> 0:20:41.080 you that you shed when you cut those twelve inches? 0:20:41.119 --> 0:20:43.000 Like how did that look in your day to day 0:20:43.040 --> 0:20:45.560 life and your spirit? You know, I'm going to be 0:20:45.720 --> 0:20:48.520 really vulnerable and honest, it looked like a lot of 0:20:48.600 --> 0:20:52.480 letting go of pretend. I had a very a very 0:20:52.600 --> 0:20:57.760 public marriage. We were my ex wife and I were 0:20:57.920 --> 0:21:00.160 one of the first couples to be married. We were 0:21:00.200 --> 0:21:03.919 on the front lines for marriage equality. We were national 0:21:03.960 --> 0:21:08.439 spokespeople for marriage equality, and so, you know, part of 0:21:08.600 --> 0:21:12.720 the beauty of having the privilege and the opportunity to 0:21:12.800 --> 0:21:16.480 move in these spaces to be able to present another 0:21:16.960 --> 0:21:20.199 idea of what it means to be queer, what it 0:21:20.240 --> 0:21:23.240 means to be a part of the LGBTQ community. Well 0:21:23.680 --> 0:21:27.000 that's the upside. The downside is that all of a sudden, 0:21:27.040 --> 0:21:30.800 you start to become hashtag couple goals and hashtag black 0:21:30.800 --> 0:21:33.160 couple goals and hashtag this, that and the other thing, 0:21:33.680 --> 0:21:37.639 and you become you are then a prisoner of the 0:21:37.720 --> 0:21:41.080 success that you've been able to create for yourself. So 0:21:41.160 --> 0:21:43.760 for me, the shedding was just like I'm going to 0:21:43.840 --> 0:21:47.960 stop pretending like shit is not always instagramable, everything isn't 0:21:48.000 --> 0:21:51.120 always great. I'm not going to watch what I say 0:21:51.240 --> 0:21:55.240 in politics when I'm upset because I'm chasing this deal 0:21:55.359 --> 0:21:57.640 or that deal, Like if either you want me as 0:21:57.640 --> 0:21:59.760 who I am or you don't. And I think that 0:21:59.800 --> 0:22:03.080 I have finally arrived. And also I'm in my forties now, 0:22:03.320 --> 0:22:07.200 I think that I've finally arrived though through this process 0:22:07.240 --> 0:22:09.840 over the last two to three years of you know, 0:22:09.920 --> 0:22:13.399 so much happening in the world, but happening you know, 0:22:13.440 --> 0:22:16.320 in my own family, happening with myself, that it's just 0:22:16.359 --> 0:22:19.360