Speaker 1: You've probably heard the story that's been going around for
Speaker 1: about eight months about thousands of people being bust into
Speaker 1: New Hampshire from Massachusetts to vote illegally in last year's election.
Speaker 1: President Trump even told that story to a group of
Speaker 1: Senators in a closed door meeting in February. New Hampshire
Speaker 1: officials have denied those claims, and there's been no evidence
Speaker 1: to back them up. But President Trump's claims that three
Speaker 1: to five million people voted illegally in November led him
Speaker 1: to set up a controversial voter fraud Commission, which held
Speaker 1: its first meeting in July. Any form of illegal or
Speaker 1: fraudulent voting, whether by noncitizens or the deceased, and any
Speaker 1: form of voter suppression or intimidation, must be stopped. That
Speaker 1: commission has been the center of controversy since its inception.
Speaker 1: Joining us as Bloomberg News legal reporter Andrew Harris, who
Speaker 1: has written an article in Bloomberg Business Week entitled the
Speaker 1: Few Democrats on Trump's Voter Fraud Panel, pushed back Andrew
Speaker 1: tell us about the surprising allegations the head of the
Speaker 1: integrity Panel, Kansas Secretary of State Chris Kolback, made about
Speaker 1: New Hampshire's voting. Hi June, Michael, thanks for having me
Speaker 1: on the show. Chris Callback for a long time has
Speaker 1: been associated with toughening voter registration UH laws. Uh it
Speaker 1: kind of goes hand in hand with his UH other association,
Speaker 1: which is with toughening U S immigration laws. So about
Speaker 1: five days before the panel met in Manchester, New Hampshire,
Speaker 1: earlier this month, UH Colback, who is Kansas Secretary of
Speaker 1: State and a candidate for governor there. He's a Republican,
Speaker 1: wrote a column for Breitbart in which he asserted that
Speaker 1: more than six thousand people who voted in last year's
Speaker 1: election in New Hampshire showed up the polls using out
Speaker 1: of state driver's licenses as I das, and that only
Speaker 1: some five and that ten months later, only a thousand
Speaker 1: or so of those people that actually UH secure were
Speaker 1: New Hampshire ideas. So Mr koback ansserted that the balance
Speaker 1: of those people were apparently in violation of New Hampshire
Speaker 1: residency laws, and that there's a good chance that these
Speaker 1: people were out of state voters who tipped both the
Speaker 1: Senate election there and potentially the presidential balloting there in
Speaker 1: favor of Democrats Maggie has Hassan and Hillary Clinton, and
Speaker 1: so what was the response. The response from New Hampshire
Speaker 1: Secretary of State Bill Gardner was a numbers, uh, don't
Speaker 1: constitute proof. He wouldn't substantiate the allegations. Another Democratic member
Speaker 1: of the panel, Main Secretary of State, Matt Dunlop, called
Speaker 1: the column reckless and said that making this allegation was
Speaker 1: tantum out to say that money found in somebody's wallet
Speaker 1: was evidence that they had robbed the bank. So it
Speaker 1: didn't go over very well at the Commission meeting in
Speaker 1: Manchester Andrew More generally, given that the you know how
Speaker 1: partisan a lot of Democrats feel this voter for commission is.
Speaker 1: You know, you've got five Democrats on the Commission. How
Speaker 1: are they approaching this? And beyond just that allegation, well,
Speaker 1: you know you have at least what appears facially to
Speaker 1: being in balance. As I said, Chris Kulback has spent
Speaker 1: a lot of time working on election law issues, as
Speaker 1: have some of the other more notable Republicans on the Commission.
Speaker 1: Hans von Spakovski and Jay Christian Adams, both of Rum,
Speaker 1: are former Republican Justice Department attorneys. On the other side,
Speaker 1: you have Mr Gardner, Mr Dunlap, a former Arkansas state lawmaker,
Speaker 1: a West Virginia County clerk, and in Alabama probate judge.
Speaker 1: None of uma is closely associated with this issue, as
Speaker 1: are the three men that I mentioned on the Republican side. Nonetheless,
Speaker 1: has spoken to all of them except for Judge Allen King,
Speaker 1: and they've all said that they are resolute in staying
Speaker 1: on the panel, even as uh, some of their colleagues
Speaker 1: have said, well, you're lending a veneer of credibility to
Speaker 1: this uh not credible effort. Uh. Their their opinion is
Speaker 1: that they're best fighting from the inside then walking away.
Speaker 1: And Andrew, So, there have been these accusations that this
Speaker 1: is a partisan commission from the beginning, but you're write
Speaker 1: about evidence that at least one of the panel's Republican
Speaker 1: members you just spoke about was concerned about even including Democrats.
Speaker 1: That would be Mr von Spakovsky. On the day that
Speaker 1: the Commission was meeting in Manchester, a public interest group
Speaker 1: released a copy of an email they had gotten pursued
Speaker 1: to a Freedom of Information Act request. It was an
Speaker 1: email sent by Mr von Spakovsky, He says to a
Speaker 1: friend back in February had ultimately made its way to
Speaker 1: Attorney General Sessions, in which Mr von Spakovsky expressed concern
Speaker 1: about putting uh Democrats or even moderate Republicans on the
Speaker 1: Commission and asserting that they would be an impediment to
Speaker 1: the Commission's objectives and that email is one of the
Speaker 1: reasons that seven Democrat at the Senator has asked the
Speaker 1: Department of Justice on Tuesday to explain any involvement it
Speaker 1: has with the Commission. The Justice Department has said that
Speaker 1: it has no involvement with the commission. Is that correct?
Speaker 1: Its correct? We haven't We haven't seen any evidence of that.
Speaker 1: The Commission is nominally led by Vice President Pence. Mr
Speaker 1: Kolback is the vice chairman of the commission. Has uh
Speaker 1: you noted it is a majority Republican entity, seven Republicans,
Speaker 1: five Democrats. Uh. They're they're they're charged with investigating problems
Speaker 1: with American election integrity and what gives people confidence in
Speaker 1: what takes it away. But there's been no indication that
Speaker 1: the Justice Department has weighed in on this, at least
Speaker 1: not that I've seen. So what has Judge Alan King,
Speaker 1: who you mentioned earlier, has written a memo on these
Speaker 1: Where is he at all this? Uh, he's one of
Speaker 1: the minorty Democrats and he's worried that the Commission is
Speaker 1: spending more time I'm looking for ways to keep people
Speaker 1: from voting, even by toughening registration laws or toughening voter
Speaker 1: ID laws. Then it is helping people to vote. And
Speaker 1: his concern, and it's echoed by a lot of his
Speaker 1: fellow Democrats. Is it The end result of this Commission's
Speaker 1: work will be a recommendation to the President to toughen
Speaker 1: those registration and voting laws and make it harder for
Speaker 1: some people to get to the polls and cast their votes. Andrew,
Speaker 1: what has struck you as you were writing this about
Speaker 1: the way Americans view voter fraud? Well, you know, June,
Speaker 1: this is really where the rubber meets the road in
Speaker 1: the democratic process. I mean, there are a lot of
Speaker 1: hot button issues, whether it's gone ownership or gay marriage
Speaker 1: or abortion rights. But this is people voting, So there's
Speaker 1: probably nothing more essential to the process than that. And
Speaker 1: depending on who you talk to, people either are convinced
Speaker 1: that this is a widespread, endemic problem or that it
Speaker 1: hardly exists at all. Nobody's saying it does exist, but
Speaker 1: the question is really scale and there doesn't seem to
Speaker 1: be a lot of middle ground being expressed from either side.
Speaker 1: Thanks so much. That's Andrew Harris, and he is a
Speaker 1: Bloomberg News legal reporter and he wrote this article, very
Speaker 1: well researched for Bloomberg Business Week entitled the Few Democrats
Speaker 1: on Trump's voter fraud panel push Back. That's it for
Speaker 1: this edition of Bloomberg Law. We will be back Monday
Speaker 1: at one pm Wall Street Time, and hope that you
Speaker 1: will be as well. Thanks to our producer David Suckerman
Speaker 1: and our technical director Sean Kilby. You can always find
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Speaker 1: slash podcast slash Law for the latest legal news. Coming
Speaker 1: up next, Bloomberg Markets with Carol Masser and Corey Johnson.
Speaker 1: Carol has just walked into the studio time enough to
Speaker 1: tell us one of the top things you'll be talking about,
Speaker 1: Carol Ware about Steve Bannon. He's back and he's targeting China. June,
Speaker 1: I have no comment on the list, no comment, speechless
Speaker 1: for one of the first times in my life. All Right,
Speaker 1: have a great weekend everyone. I'm June Graza with Michael Beast.
Speaker 1: This is Bloomberg.