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Speaker 1: Kids that really have a natural love for baseball or basketball,

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Speaker 1: or football or swimming or whatever sport that they're competing in.

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Speaker 1: It shows, you know, it shows that their competitiveness in

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Speaker 1: the way that they attack games and practice. This is

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Speaker 1: the Reformed Sports Project, a podcast about restoring healthy balance

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Speaker 1: and perspective in all areas of sports through education and advocacy. Hi,

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Speaker 1: this is Nick Bonacor from the Reformed Sports Project podcast. Today,

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Speaker 1: I'm speaking with the great j Norvel. His resume and

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Speaker 1: experience reached to all corners of college and professional football

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Speaker 1: as both a player and coach, as he spent time

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Speaker 1: in the Big Ten, Big Twelve, Pack twelve, and the NFL.

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Speaker 1: JA is currently the head football coach at Colorado State

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Speaker 1: University after leading the Nevada Wolfpack to four bowl games

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Speaker 1: in his five seasons there as head coach. He was

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Speaker 1: also named the one College Coach of the Year by

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Speaker 1: the National Coalition of Minority foot All Coaches. Jay and

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Speaker 1: I discussed whether they're playing at the highest levels is

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Speaker 1: a prerequisite for being a good coach, the importance on

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Speaker 1: fundamentals as opposed to physical contact and youth football, and

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Speaker 1: what he looks for on the recruiting trail. Man, I'm

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Speaker 1: freaking fired up. I got another phenomenal guest head football coach.

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Speaker 1: Newly head football coach at Colorado State University coach J Norvel.

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Speaker 1: Coach Norvell, thanks so much for hopping on, sir. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and congrats new gig. But same conference, right, staying in

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Speaker 1: the fight. They're excited about it or what. Yeah, it's

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Speaker 1: a great situation here, really excited to be a Colorado State.

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Speaker 1: They have great support and uh, we've already got a

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Speaker 1: great response in recruiting, and uh, we're excited to get

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Speaker 1: started with our players. Bet Man, Well, I appreciate you

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Speaker 1: taking the time. And obviously we're talking youth sports. We're

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Speaker 1: gonna talk athletic development, culture and everything that goes into

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Speaker 1: that UM. And an intricate part of the ecosystem that

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Speaker 1: makes up youth sports is the dynamic of coaching. And

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Speaker 1: what I mean by that is there's an argument that's

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Speaker 1: always made coach that in order to get great coaching,

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Speaker 1: you gotta play for somebody who's been to the highest level, right,

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Speaker 1: or who's been to college, right, or you know, people

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Speaker 1: like to get done playing ball, and then all of

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Speaker 1: the they brand themselves as a coaching guru and you know.

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Speaker 1: But frankly, I've had some great coaches who didn't play

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Speaker 1: at the highest level. I know guys who are great coaches.

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Speaker 1: And I just want to read a quick quote, UH,

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Speaker 1: coach Bob Stoops when I was reading about your bio

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Speaker 1: and such, speaks very high level you. Obviously you have

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Speaker 1: rapport and coach with him and such, but he says

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Speaker 1: you have an unbelievable football mind. So what I want

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Speaker 1: to ask is you obviously played for the Barris, You've

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Speaker 1: coached in the you know, at every level of college football.

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Speaker 1: Do you gotta be at that level in order have

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Speaker 1: a great football mind or can that be something that

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Speaker 1: you acquire through experience without playing at the highest levels. No,

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Speaker 1: I don't think you have to play at the highest level,

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Speaker 1: uh to really understand the game and be able to

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Speaker 1: teach the game. But one of the smartest football people

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Speaker 1: I know, um was was by one of my high

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Speaker 1: school teammates, and his dad was was a Hall of

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Speaker 1: Fame coach, but he was around on football's like, He's

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Speaker 1: one of the smartest guys that I know in football.

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Speaker 1: And and I've been around some incredible youth coaches that

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Speaker 1: were great teachers and that can communicate the game, uh

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Speaker 1: and teach it to others. And so I don't agree

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Speaker 1: with that. I don't think you have to have played

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Speaker 1: at the highest level to really do an excellent job

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Speaker 1: as a coach, be able to communicate and teach it.

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Speaker 1: I think some of the great great high school coaches

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Speaker 1: and even great youth coaches are those that that understand

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Speaker 1: the game and could communicated and are great teachers that

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Speaker 1: haven't necessarily, you know, played it or coached at the

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Speaker 1: highest level. You keep you in that word teaching, man,

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Speaker 1: And uh, that's something I think because I know people

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Speaker 1: and I've heard fellas say that, you know, just because

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Speaker 1: so and so competed at a high level, they don't

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Speaker 1: know how to teach the game. Right? What is that?

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Speaker 1: What is that when you say the word teaching? How

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Speaker 1: does that go with co I mean they are just

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Speaker 1: coaching and teaching go hand in hand. Can you talk

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Speaker 1: about maybe the differences and how teaching and coaching are

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Speaker 1: so related? Yeah? Absolutely. You know, I've been around some

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Speaker 1: guys that were great players NFL players, but sometimes when

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Speaker 1: they're they're not able to communicate, Um, the skills and

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Speaker 1: the schemes that it takes to be a very good player.

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Speaker 1: And so the communication is a skill. Teaching as a

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Speaker 1: skill being able to to to explain something and then

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Speaker 1: be able to demonstrate something, and then you know, the

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Speaker 1: kids need to be able to imitate that, and then

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Speaker 1: repetition is very important. And so it's it's kind of

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Speaker 1: the laws of learning, and uh, you know, those are

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Speaker 1: something you learn when you try to translate from playing

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Speaker 1: to teaching, and teaching is probably the ultimate form of understanding.

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Speaker 1: You know. We tell our players that, you know, for

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Speaker 1: them to really totally understand a play or a skill

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Speaker 1: or a fun in the middle, they should be able

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Speaker 1: to teach to somebody else. And uh, when when they're

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Speaker 1: able to do that, they really understand it completely. To

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Speaker 1: come down to like, you can't give it away if

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Speaker 1: you don't got a type thing. And the more that

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Speaker 1: you have gone through that, the better you are. Or

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Speaker 1: sometimes is it you know, because oftentimes coach, I'll hear

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Speaker 1: people say not and I hear this a lot. People

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Speaker 1: will call or ask, you know, hey, my kids ten

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Speaker 1: years old. You know you're a college coach. What are

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Speaker 1: some things that I could do that you do with

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Speaker 1: your college players that I could do with my ten

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Speaker 1: year old. I hear coaches of the college level tell

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Speaker 1: me that people will literally ask them that and they go, dude,

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Speaker 1: you're not doing anything that we do at the college

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Speaker 1: level at the ten year old like the diferent. But

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Speaker 1: yet there are some some some clubs and some folks

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Speaker 1: out there that are pitching that right, like, we're gonna

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Speaker 1: get your kid prepared for college at ten eleven? Can

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Speaker 1: you talk about the difference. What should these ten you,

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Speaker 1: eleven you twelve you coaches be? For instance, let's look

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Speaker 1: at football. Should we be worried about like certain you

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Speaker 1: brought the words schemes professional and college schemes. We're going

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Speaker 1: to coach a Pop Warner game. No, I think you know,

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Speaker 1: the schemes don't have to be altered complicated at that level.

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Speaker 1: I think the biggest thing for that age group is

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Speaker 1: number one, for kids to have a good time and

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Speaker 1: have fun and contact really isn't as important at that age.

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Speaker 1: And our sport, you know, our sport is it's a

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Speaker 1: it's a sport where kids can learn the fundamentals of

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Speaker 1: throwing and catching and uh, you know, running with the

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Speaker 1: ball and playing past defense at an early age and

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Speaker 1: really start to learn the building blocks of playing the

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Speaker 1: game of football. The best youth coaches that I've been

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Speaker 1: around really taught plays and schematics and fundamentals and really

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Speaker 1: didn't focus much on the contact part of the game

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Speaker 1: at those early ages. And so, you know, I don't

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Speaker 1: think it's really realistic to say that you're gonna teach

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Speaker 1: college schemes two kids at that age each. I just

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Speaker 1: don't think that's realistic, nor is it necessary to really

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Speaker 1: learn the g You know, I'll be forty three years

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Speaker 1: old here in September, so I mean I grew up

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Speaker 1: doing the Oklahoma dri I mean, like bulling the ring

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Speaker 1: eight years old. It was a different world back then, obviously, um,

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Speaker 1: but I mean I remember doing that stuff. You land

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Speaker 1: your back, and you know, one guy has the ball,

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Speaker 1: one guy's playing d and you're like first man up,

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Speaker 1: and if you're not the first man up, you're getting

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Speaker 1: worn out. Times have changed, So you're saying you don't

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Speaker 1: necessarily need to do all that physical contact at that eight, nine,

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Speaker 1: ten of eleven. When do you think it's time for

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Speaker 1: kids to really start? Because I know I have kids

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Speaker 1: and my wife and I you know, with all the

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Speaker 1: concussion things, that have been out there. We've been having

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Speaker 1: our kids wrestle. We love contact, you know, we love it,

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Speaker 1: but I mean the head thing, it's a little bit

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Speaker 1: of a turn off to some parents. So when's the

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Speaker 1: time that you think it's comfortable where parents can feel

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Speaker 1: comforable with their kids going to uh, you know, full contact,

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Speaker 1: full battle rattle as they say, yeah, actually they've they

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Speaker 1: the rules of the game have changed quite a bit

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Speaker 1: in the last couple of years. There's there's very strict

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Speaker 1: rules at the college level for those kind of drills.

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Speaker 1: They've actually outlawed the Oklahoma drill UH and the bull

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Speaker 1: in the ring and you can't do those at the

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Speaker 1: college level anymore. They eliminated it, and so um and

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Speaker 1: and like I mentioned, you can teach tackling without even

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Speaker 1: having pads on UH and the fundamentals you know have

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Speaker 1: had placement and wrapping up and bringing people down. A

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Speaker 1: lot of that can be taught without even having pads

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Speaker 1: on it. And like I mentioned, you know, my son

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Speaker 1: um you know, was probably twelve years old and was

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Speaker 1: on a great youth team that had a great coach

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Speaker 1: UM and they rarely hit in practice, they rarely had contact,

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Speaker 1: but they knew schemes, they knew how to work together,

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Speaker 1: they knew the fundamentals of offensive defense. And then they

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Speaker 1: you know, they hit in games and they would pick

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Speaker 1: and shoose times when they had contact. The majority of

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Speaker 1: the times they they work without Pazza. And so I

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Speaker 1: think that I would search if I had a ten

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Speaker 1: or twelve year old for somebody that was experienced, that

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Speaker 1: would um that understood the game at doad Low. What

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Speaker 1: about you know, I didn't know this up until a

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Speaker 1: couple of years ago, but now literally every single sport

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Speaker 1: is a year round. It seems like, I mean, you

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Speaker 1: could play football. I didn't know that even I thought

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Speaker 1: up until a few years ago. I was like, well,

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Speaker 1: wait a minute, football is the one sport. And I

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Speaker 1: have a friend of mine who actually played against He

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Speaker 1: actually played in Nebraska. Um Tony Ortiz shout out guy

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Speaker 1: was a stud linebacker and won two national titles in

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Speaker 1: the mid nineties from Nebraska. He's down there coach, and

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Speaker 1: I'm interview and a couple of years ago and he's like,

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Speaker 1: He's like, dude, you can play football year round in Texas.

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Speaker 1: Like wow. So with that said, though, man coaches want

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Speaker 1: kids time, right and they're very at times, not all

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Speaker 1: not all, but many don't want to let a kid

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Speaker 1: go play hoops, let him go play basketball, let him Hey,

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Speaker 1: we need you to get better, and like we need

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Speaker 1: you to be all in type thing, and there's a

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Speaker 1: little bit of fear miss now, hey, you want to

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Speaker 1: be in our team in the spring, well you gotta

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Speaker 1: be here in the fall, or vice versa. But every

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Speaker 1: college coach I talked to loves the versatility of multi

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Speaker 1: sport athletes love kids that have the best athletic backgrounds.

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Speaker 1: There's multiple ways to compete. You know, what are your

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Speaker 1: thoughts on, you know, specializing at young ages versus kids

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Speaker 1: being able to say and play multiple sports. Yeah. Absolutely,

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Speaker 1: I'm I'm four kids playing multiple sports all the way

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Speaker 1: through high school. And I mean, we have kids that

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Speaker 1: we recruited high school and I've met with several of

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Speaker 1: them the day that, you know, I asked them what

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Speaker 1: other sports they play. I I like it when kids

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Speaker 1: are very versatile. They could play basketball, they play baseball,

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Speaker 1: they wrestle, they run track. I think it's just really

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Speaker 1: important for for kids to have those breaks in the

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Speaker 1: year where they do different things and they learn, they

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Speaker 1: learn different movements, from those different sports. Uh. Different sports

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Speaker 1: require different type of agility and athletic movements. It's good

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Speaker 1: for their bodies physically to get those changes. And so

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Speaker 1: I'm totally against specialized sports for youth. I think that's

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Speaker 1: the greatest way to burn kids out. Um. And I've

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Speaker 1: seen it in baseball. I mean you've got kids playing

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Speaker 1: a hunter games. I mean, they don't need to play

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Speaker 1: that many games in the summer. It's just it's not

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Speaker 1: it's not healthy firm, it's not healthy for their arms,

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Speaker 1: and um, you know. And so I just really, I

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Speaker 1: really think there's negative things uh that happened when kids

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Speaker 1: play youth basketball year long. Um. So I just I'm

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Speaker 1: very much in favor of multi sport uh for young kids,

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Speaker 1: and I think the specialization is more for the adults

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Speaker 1: and it is for the kids. Actually heard Tim Corban

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Speaker 1: say that exact same like literally the exact same thing.

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Speaker 1: He thinks that's an adult thing, And you know, it's

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Speaker 1: fun It's funny. It's funny hearing people that are at

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Speaker 1: the highest level say the exact and you're totally different sports,

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Speaker 1: but you're both on the same page. It's just it's

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Speaker 1: always interesting to me when we come back, Jay and

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Speaker 1: I discussed what he looks for new recruits. Welcome back

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Speaker 1: where Jay and I left off. We were about to

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Speaker 1: discuss recruiting, competitiveness, and the importance of academics for student athletes.

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Speaker 1: You just brought up recruiting, UM and how you were

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Speaker 1: sitting with kids today and that's a question that you

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Speaker 1: ask them. What other sports do you play? Another big

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Speaker 1: topic is you know, what do coaches look for? Like

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Speaker 1: you know, because people will argue coaches talk out of

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Speaker 1: the both sides of their mouth. They say they want

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Speaker 1: high character kids with great grades and these versatile athletes,

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Speaker 1: but as long as they're gonna help them win, that's

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Speaker 1: all that matters. What what do you what do you

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Speaker 1: look for from a recruiting standpoint? And what do you

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Speaker 1: ask the high school coaches? What do you ask the

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Speaker 1: club coaches? What do you want to know before you

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Speaker 1: really engage with a kid? Yeah, I mean, I think

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Speaker 1: character does help you with UM and and we do

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Speaker 1: we ask a lot of questions, you know, one of

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Speaker 1: the questions I do ask is what other sports do

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Speaker 1: you play? Because once we get a kid and he

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Speaker 1: has to play at the college level, versatility is really important.

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Speaker 1: UM We want to know if he's a captain, if

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Speaker 1: he's been a leader on his team's what kind of

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Speaker 1: work ethic he has? Um, has he been injured? As

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Speaker 1: he ever missed a game because of an injury? You know,

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Speaker 1: I asked if kids ever had a summer job. You know,

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Speaker 1: I just I'm curious if kids have who ever worked

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Speaker 1: where they had to show up and be dependable and

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Speaker 1: show that dependability. Uh. You know, I ask if kids transfer.

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Speaker 1: I think it's a little bit of a right flag.

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Speaker 1: If kids transfer from schools school in high school? Why

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Speaker 1: why did they transferred to where they not starting? Uh

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Speaker 1: with somebody else the quarterback? Um, and you wanted to

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Speaker 1: go to a different school, you didn't have to compete. Um.

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Speaker 1: That's That's something that I'd like to know. And and

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Speaker 1: uh So there's a lot of questions that we ask

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Speaker 1: ask a lot of family questions. You know, kids have

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Speaker 1: brothers and sisters. You know, sometimes when kids uh, you know,

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Speaker 1: did kids play with the bigger kids? You know, you'd

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Speaker 1: like to know when a kid grows up, if he

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Speaker 1: had older kids in the neighborhood and he used to

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Speaker 1: have to play with the older kids. A lot of

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Speaker 1: times those kids are a little bit more advanced. The

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Speaker 1: kids had older brothers that they had to try to

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Speaker 1: keep up with a lot of times that's an advantage.

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Speaker 1: So there's a lot of questions that we ask, what's

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Speaker 1: your favorite subject? How do you do in school? I

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Speaker 1: believe if they're high achiever academically, they're high achievers athletically

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Speaker 1: as well. So, um, there's a lot of things that

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Speaker 1: we ask. We try to find out about their personalities.

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Speaker 1: And you know, if their their kids that are highly

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Speaker 1: focused and have a lot of energy, that's important as well.

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Speaker 1: Everything you brought up there revolves around competition. You know,

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Speaker 1: you asked about transfer, and you asked about you know,

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Speaker 1: all these other things. And I think that is the

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Speaker 1: one people often ask me, like, what's the one thing

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Speaker 1: that Like when I go on a podcast, someone will

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Speaker 1: ask him, what's the one thing that you hear that

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Speaker 1: really stands out to you from college coach. I'm like

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Speaker 1: to me, it's the word competition. I hear every coach

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Speaker 1: every sport they want competitors. What what it about competitors

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Speaker 1: that you feel good with when you're in the huddle? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: you have to. I mean it's the nature of all

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Speaker 1: sport is competition. And you know, we talk a lot

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Speaker 1: about grit. We we like we like players with grit,

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Speaker 1: and grit is passion and perseverance. And if you think

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Speaker 1: of the word passion, you have to love. You have

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Speaker 1: to love the sport. You have to love competing to

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Speaker 1: really work on it and to master the skills you

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Speaker 1: need to have in that sport. And so that's important.

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Speaker 1: You know, kids that really have a natural love for

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Speaker 1: baseball or basketball, or football or swimming or whatever sport

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Speaker 1: that they're competing in, it shows, you know, it shows

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Speaker 1: in their competitiveness, in the way that they attack games

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Speaker 1: and practice. You know, I've always found that the best

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Speaker 1: players love to practice, and that's how they can improve

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Speaker 1: and get better because they just they absolutely love playing football,

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Speaker 1: playing baseball, playing basketball, um and and that love shows

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Speaker 1: and how they work and how they practice. And so

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Speaker 1: that's why I think it's so important, you know, not

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Speaker 1: to specialize, because you know, if the guy loves baseball,

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Speaker 1: he might not love it twelve months of the year,

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Speaker 1: and you know, by playing it all the time, it

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Speaker 1: kind of burns them out on that and it becomes

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Speaker 1: more of a Dave Brook instead of the love for

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Speaker 1: competing and playing, so, um, you know that's really important.

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Speaker 1: And you know, competition is everything. Being able to compete

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Speaker 1: at being excited to play and compete is everything in

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Speaker 1: competitive sports. What about one of those kids? And I'm

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Speaker 1: thinking as you're talking, I'm like, God, I think I

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Speaker 1: was one of these kids. I did not like school

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Speaker 1: like I I really didn't. I didn't horse around. And

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Speaker 1: I was listening to a podcast, um which Charlie Ward.

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Speaker 1: I was listening John Gordon had Charlie Ward on and

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Speaker 1: Charlie Ward was talking. You know, Charlie Ward obviously Heisman

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Speaker 1: went to the NBA, and you know, um, Charlie Ward

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Speaker 1: when he was younger, he didn't like school like sports

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Speaker 1: kept him in school. And I was listening to him, Gonna,

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Speaker 1: I can relate to that. I don't can't relate to

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Speaker 1: Charlie Wards athleticism. I mean school was secondary sports. But

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Speaker 1: I got my college degree in four years. You know,

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Speaker 1: I think sports got me to college. And then when

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Speaker 1: I got there, I probably grew up a little bit. Right,

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Speaker 1: you have to maintain a certain g p A and

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Speaker 1: all these things. And then it kind of ignited a

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Speaker 1: little bit. I started taking more and more pride in

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Speaker 1: my academics. As I grew and got older, can you

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Speaker 1: separate that. I know we all like to say we

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Speaker 1: wanted to see high to you, but can you see

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Speaker 1: sometimes where kids man sports is what they're focused on.

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Speaker 1: They love it and they'll do what they need to

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Speaker 1: do to make sure that that is kept in their life.

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Speaker 1: So the classroom secondary but doesn't mean they're not taking

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Speaker 1: it seriously. Does that make any sense? Can you kind

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Speaker 1: of get into that? Yeah? Absolutely, I mean there's you know,

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Speaker 1: there's different levels of love for academics. I guess that

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Speaker 1: that athletes have. But you know, at the college level,

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Speaker 1: you know, you have to you have to play and

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Speaker 1: remain eligible to play. And so you know, if a

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Speaker 1: player really loves to play football or basketball or whatever

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Speaker 1: their supported of expertise is, you know, then they have

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Speaker 1: then they have to do what they have to do.

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Speaker 1: Academic mean, you know, and we believe in accountability. Uh

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Speaker 1: you know, kids, kids are accountable to go to class

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Speaker 1: and to hand their work in and and in a

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Speaker 1: timely manner, and to maintain a certain g p A

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Speaker 1: and great point average to be able to play. And

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Speaker 1: so showing that accountability in the classroom, it does reflect

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Speaker 1: on the field. And at the end of the day,

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Speaker 1: we're looking for dependable people that we can count on

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Speaker 1: and trust. And you know, when college coaches put players

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Speaker 1: on the field, it's the biggest compliment because what they're

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Speaker 1: saying is, we trust you, We trust that you know

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Speaker 1: what to do. We trust that you're gonna play with

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Speaker 1: great effort, and we trust that you're you're gonna do

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Speaker 1: your very best. And and so that's that's all part

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Speaker 1: of it. Um. The the day of the athlete that

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Speaker 1: doesn't go to school and just shows up and plays games,

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Speaker 1: that's that's past a long time ago. You know, all

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Speaker 1: these college athletes work very hard in school. Uh, and

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Speaker 1: they have to maintain a certain great point average to

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Speaker 1: be able to play. And so, um, that's that's important.

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Speaker 1: I love it. Coach. I want to ask you this

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Speaker 1: last thing. I'm gonna let you go. I can't think

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Speaker 1: enough of your time, and that is you know, there's

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Speaker 1: gonna be there's gonna be a lot of kids. There's

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Speaker 1: gonna be a lot of student athletes who aspire to

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Speaker 1: be college athletes. They aspire to play in college. Their

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Speaker 1: parents will hear this, what do these kids need to do?

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Speaker 1: What should these kids be focused on from not just

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Speaker 1: an athletic standpoint, but academic standpoint, a character standpoint. How

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Speaker 1: would they get on Coach Norvell's you know radar, or

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Speaker 1: any college coach for that matter. You know, I really

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Speaker 1: think that they need to do a great job in

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Speaker 1: their high school programs. You know, um, try to do

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Speaker 1: all the things that they're high school coaches are asking

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Speaker 1: them to do, and and to really uh try to

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Speaker 1: be a standout. Uh, you know, and that comes from

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Speaker 1: really paying attention, found the directions and and really given

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Speaker 1: great effort. And um, you know, I I always asked

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Speaker 1: the high school coaches, you know, how does this kid work?

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Speaker 1: How does he put time in? Uh? You know, does

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Speaker 1: he do the things you ask him to do? Is

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Speaker 1: he a leader with your other kids? In an example?

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Speaker 1: And those are the things we're looking for the majority

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Speaker 1: of the time. Uh. The way that a player is

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Speaker 1: in high school is how he's going to respond in college.

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Speaker 1: If he's a hard worker, if he's a high achiever,

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Speaker 1: if he will work extra in high school, those things

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Speaker 1: will correlate to the college level. And so they say

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Speaker 1: a leopard doesn't change his spots, you know, I mean

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Speaker 1: people are going to be what they are in high

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Speaker 1: school and I would I would just encourage kids to

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Speaker 1: follow with their high school coaches say and and trying

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Speaker 1: to be a high achiever in their in their high

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Speaker 1: school programs. Coach J Norfeld, I cannot thank you enough

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Speaker 1: for your time. I truly appreciate your humble and I'm grateful, sir.

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Speaker 1: Thank you so much, Nick, I appreciate it. That's J Norvell,

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Speaker 1: head football coach in Colorado State University. Thanks for listening

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Speaker 1: to the Reform Sports Project podcast. Dominick Boncourt and our

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Speaker 1: goal is to restore a healthy balance and perspective in

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Speaker 1: all areas of sports through education and advocacy. For updates,

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Speaker 1: please follow us on Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram, or check

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Speaker 1: out our website by searching for the Reform Sports Project