WEBVTT - You Can Run 0:00:00.200 --> 0:00:05.040 Family Secrets is a production of iHeartRadio. This episode contains 0:00:05.080 --> 0:00:12.240 descriptions of sexual assault listener discretion as advised, run. 0:00:11.920 --> 0:00:17.040 Away, you already to right to the end of the line. 0:00:19.280 --> 0:00:24.480 No one need staying, No Onelllow believe in the path 0:00:24.560 --> 0:00:26.360 only line. 0:00:27.680 --> 0:00:28.920 Sunni album. 0:00:30.800 --> 0:00:35.559 That's Jessica Willis Fisher singing from her beautiful song River Runaway. 0:00:36.520 --> 0:00:38.800 If you haven't listened to part one of Jessica's story, 0:00:39.440 --> 0:00:42.919 do that now and then come back for more of 0:00:42.960 --> 0:01:08.240 this powerful, harrowing, and ultimately deeply inspiring story. I'm Danny Shapiro, 0:01:08.720 --> 0:01:11.640 and this is family Secrets. The secrets that are kept 0:01:11.640 --> 0:01:14.319 from us, the secrets we keep from others, and the 0:01:14.319 --> 0:01:26.800 secrets we keep from ourselves. Secrets will eventually spill out. 0:01:28.000 --> 0:01:33.560 Sometimes it takes generations, Sometimes it takes decades. Sometimes it 0:01:33.640 --> 0:01:39.080 takes minutes. Jessica's book is called Unspeakable for a reason. 0:01:40.319 --> 0:01:42.959 When it comes to the horrible truths for father's abuse, 0:01:43.480 --> 0:01:48.960 she simply cannot speak it. It's impossible. Her siblings aren't 0:01:49.000 --> 0:01:53.880 speaking it, and certainly her father isn't either. And it's 0:01:53.920 --> 0:01:57.400 only those few times her mother alludes to it before 0:01:57.440 --> 0:02:03.040 it's tucked away again and As the family extends, so 0:02:03.120 --> 0:02:07.360 does the scope of this secret. One of Jessica's brothers 0:02:07.560 --> 0:02:09.840 is about to get married to a woman named Maria. 0:02:10.600 --> 0:02:15.519 He says to Jessica one day Maria knows. A little 0:02:15.560 --> 0:02:19.600 bit later, Jessica falls in love too. She and Sean 0:02:19.639 --> 0:02:24.280 become involved when they're teenagers, building a romantic connection. She 0:02:24.360 --> 0:02:27.160 doesn't divulge right away to Sean what's happened to her, 0:02:27.600 --> 0:02:31.120 but she does begin to wonder, how can I completely 0:02:31.120 --> 0:02:33.959 connect with this person if he doesn't know the truth. 0:02:35.960 --> 0:02:40.560 So this dreadful inevitability of kind of being on this 0:02:40.600 --> 0:02:41.400 collision course. 0:02:41.480 --> 0:02:45.560 How long are secrets like this going to be containable? 0:02:46.080 --> 0:02:49.120 And the biggest threat to that is, yes, as we 0:02:49.160 --> 0:02:53.560 get older, there's the personal connections that we try to 0:02:53.560 --> 0:02:57.040 make as individuals, and then you know, as we're performing 0:02:57.080 --> 0:03:00.440 and stuff, there's just this bigger and bigger microscope, bigger 0:03:00.440 --> 0:03:04.119 and bigger platform where there's this more and more awareness 0:03:04.639 --> 0:03:06.679 and how are we going to kind of be able 0:03:06.680 --> 0:03:10.480 to balance that? And my brother became engaged and it 0:03:10.560 --> 0:03:13.160 was actually during my late teenage years that I was 0:03:13.360 --> 0:03:16.320 trying to figure out how to have a relationship. But 0:03:16.400 --> 0:03:20.800 it was this disillusionment over time, realizing, oh, my dad 0:03:20.840 --> 0:03:24.880 really is never going to let me go. And I 0:03:24.880 --> 0:03:27.560 think I realized how deep that was in me by 0:03:27.560 --> 0:03:31.359 realizing I never imagine getting married. Some part of me 0:03:31.440 --> 0:03:33.640 knew like, that's probably never going to happen for me, 0:03:33.680 --> 0:03:35.320 but of course I desperately wanted that. 0:03:37.840 --> 0:03:40.440 When Jessica's in her early twenties, she and Sean have 0:03:40.520 --> 0:03:44.840 not had sex, but their relationship is certainly sexual. She 0:03:44.960 --> 0:03:48.400 sends him some partially clad selfies and they're on her computer, 0:03:49.200 --> 0:03:51.600 and one day one of her little sisters discovers these 0:03:51.640 --> 0:03:54.720 selfies through the lens of all she's been taught at 0:03:54.720 --> 0:03:58.520 home and at church. She's confused and traumatized by these photos, 0:03:58.960 --> 0:04:02.280 unsure of why Jessa and Sean have been communicating this way. 0:04:05.440 --> 0:04:09.400 I was secretly talking with him, and I don't think 0:04:09.600 --> 0:04:14.680 any healthy relationship is built on secrets. You know, how 0:04:14.760 --> 0:04:17.960 is it supposed to be healthy? And you are sexually developing, 0:04:18.000 --> 0:04:20.679 you are all of these things, but there's my religious 0:04:20.760 --> 0:04:25.960 teachings and this very drastic logistical thing around me, and 0:04:26.360 --> 0:04:30.080 so you know, we were digitally communicating. We're both young adults, 0:04:30.080 --> 0:04:32.760 were both in our early twenties and when my sister 0:04:32.880 --> 0:04:37.359 saw that, I just knew how much more so, like 0:04:37.880 --> 0:04:40.720 this train is about to slow motion crash, you know, 0:04:40.880 --> 0:04:43.200 and there's no way for me to really wiggle out 0:04:43.240 --> 0:04:47.400 of this. And I was like, here, I am traumatizing 0:04:47.440 --> 0:04:50.520 like a child because this is so confusing. And I 0:04:50.560 --> 0:04:53.880 was just like, please let me tell mom and dad, 0:04:53.920 --> 0:04:56.920 and I promised her kind. 0:04:56.760 --> 0:04:57.920 Of that it was going to be okay. 0:04:57.960 --> 0:05:01.880 And I had this awareness, like this deep guilt of 0:05:01.920 --> 0:05:04.400 feeling like I'm an adult telling a child that's all 0:05:04.440 --> 0:05:07.120 going to be okay. And I also know that this 0:05:07.279 --> 0:05:10.880 is not going to be okay, and I think I 0:05:10.960 --> 0:05:13.520 genuinely meant to go tell my parents and I didn't. 0:05:13.560 --> 0:05:14.280 I played it out. 0:05:14.320 --> 0:05:19.200 It lasted a couple more weeks before basically it came 0:05:19.240 --> 0:05:22.040 out and they found out. I did not just go, 0:05:22.200 --> 0:05:24.880 you know what, this is wrong and like stand up 0:05:24.920 --> 0:05:32.200 and rebel. I basically folded and accepted that. You know, 0:05:32.240 --> 0:05:34.920 of course, a part of me, there were so many 0:05:34.920 --> 0:05:37.040 different parts of me feeling different things, but as far 0:05:37.040 --> 0:05:41.360 as my behaviors, I was like, yes, I am sinful, 0:05:41.440 --> 0:05:45.080 I am wrong. And it got turned into kind of 0:05:45.279 --> 0:05:48.280 even though we don't talk about Dad's problems here you are, 0:05:48.360 --> 0:05:51.360 you clearly have problems, and he's the one in charge. 0:05:51.560 --> 0:05:56.200 You're the child, you need to be disciplined. And it 0:05:56.400 --> 0:05:59.600 started this weird chapter where I was the problem in 0:05:59.640 --> 0:06:03.960 the family and it created this mob like mentality where 0:06:04.680 --> 0:06:07.080 you know, I had to be managed, the kids had 0:06:07.080 --> 0:06:10.480 to be protected from me, My actions had to be monitored, 0:06:10.520 --> 0:06:14.880 and it was really my soul at stake here. Dad 0:06:14.960 --> 0:06:17.880 was like, you know, she's she's being led astray by 0:06:18.320 --> 0:06:23.040 the devil, and parts of me resisted, but it felt 0:06:23.080 --> 0:06:25.600 too much. I was going against the whole entire system, 0:06:25.720 --> 0:06:30.000 all of my siblings, both my parents, and I had 0:06:30.000 --> 0:06:33.960 to keep up this outer shtick and roll and smile 0:06:34.040 --> 0:06:38.599 on stage, and inside it was I was losing my 0:06:38.680 --> 0:06:39.760 sanity bit by bit. 0:06:41.000 --> 0:06:47.120 Yeah, it's so painful, this like level of control and surveillance. 0:06:47.920 --> 0:06:53.640 It's cultish because it's the mind control. It's the bounded 0:06:53.839 --> 0:06:56.520 choice theory, where it's like I share with people that 0:06:56.720 --> 0:06:58.679 there is this time where and I have a video 0:06:58.760 --> 0:07:00.960 of it. And sometimes I'm so thankful for that video, 0:07:01.000 --> 0:07:04.680 because otherwise I would doubt that this happened. But there's proof, 0:07:04.760 --> 0:07:07.960 and sometimes I need that proof to even be able 0:07:08.000 --> 0:07:10.680 to believe my memories of these moments, but it's this 0:07:10.760 --> 0:07:15.560 kind of kangaroo court scene where you know, Dad is 0:07:15.600 --> 0:07:19.280 telling me I have to claim my master, and he's saying, 0:07:19.360 --> 0:07:22.360 I already know you're following singe, but you have to 0:07:22.440 --> 0:07:26.560 confess it, you know, And so think inquisition, think whatever 0:07:26.720 --> 0:07:32.520 worst version of that cult leader and control mob sort 0:07:32.520 --> 0:07:35.080 of thing. And it was in that moment that I 0:07:35.160 --> 0:07:37.960 realized that this was an escalation of dynamics that had 0:07:38.000 --> 0:07:38.880 been here forever. 0:07:39.080 --> 0:07:40.120 There were moments. 0:07:39.800 --> 0:07:43.600 Where I would pile on a sibling who was stepping 0:07:43.600 --> 0:07:46.240 out of line, but now how could I protest that 0:07:46.360 --> 0:07:52.000 without being so hypocritical and taking it spiritually? I would 0:07:52.040 --> 0:07:54.640 sometimes open the Bible, which was so troubling to me, 0:07:54.920 --> 0:07:58.240 and I've had such conflicting thoughts, but their scripture that 0:07:58.280 --> 0:08:03.400 says if you do not forgive others, God will not 0:08:03.520 --> 0:08:06.480 forgive you. And so it felt like I was trying 0:08:06.520 --> 0:08:11.720 to find the courage and the foothold to finally like say, Dad, 0:08:12.120 --> 0:08:15.120 you're wrong. The main problem here is what you've been 0:08:15.120 --> 0:08:19.440 doing all this time. But unfortunately I had taken steps that, 0:08:19.520 --> 0:08:23.600 according to what I believed, was also wrong. So it 0:08:23.680 --> 0:08:26.640 was this, who are you to talk sort of thing, 0:08:26.880 --> 0:08:29.960 and it was just really a crazy making situation. 0:08:30.560 --> 0:08:31.040 For sure. 0:08:34.559 --> 0:08:53.760 We'll be right back. One night on tour, a set 0:08:53.800 --> 0:08:57.480 of blue flashing lights head toward the Fisher Family tour bus, 0:08:57.840 --> 0:08:59.760 which is pulled over on the side of the road. 0:09:00.760 --> 0:09:03.720 Jessica's father has been violently striking her in the face, 0:09:04.400 --> 0:09:07.280 but now a cop is here. If a cop sees 0:09:07.320 --> 0:09:10.520 what's really going on, maybe Jessica and her siblings will 0:09:10.520 --> 0:09:14.360 be rescued, will be safe. But that's not what happens. 0:09:16.120 --> 0:09:20.280 He pulled the bus over, he continued to attack me, 0:09:20.559 --> 0:09:24.120 and a cop had pulled over. It was just the 0:09:24.160 --> 0:09:27.800 wildest feeling, so surreal, so weird. 0:09:28.320 --> 0:09:29.560 I was just. 0:09:29.480 --> 0:09:32.640 So terrified for my life. I was basically an animal mode. 0:09:32.679 --> 0:09:32.880 You know. 0:09:32.920 --> 0:09:35.520 I didn't know if this was a moment where his 0:09:35.640 --> 0:09:38.560 violence would lead to someone dying, if that would be me, 0:09:39.440 --> 0:09:41.200 if that would have made me happy. You know, I 0:09:41.320 --> 0:09:44.040 really kind of think that moment. One of the things 0:09:44.080 --> 0:09:46.600 I remember thinking is I just wish I wasn't here, 0:09:47.280 --> 0:09:50.360 because if you follow that I'm the problem, believe all 0:09:50.400 --> 0:09:52.480 the way to its end, it's you know, everybody would 0:09:52.520 --> 0:09:55.040 be better off if I wasn't here. You know, the 0:09:55.040 --> 0:09:57.520 cop comes to the door essentially, and I don't even 0:09:57.600 --> 0:10:00.680 need to be forced into the closet or or out 0:10:00.679 --> 0:10:03.240 from you. I just kind of like a zombie go 0:10:03.400 --> 0:10:07.720 hide myself because one of my coping mechanisms was always 0:10:08.040 --> 0:10:10.280 on a dime, being able to smile, being able to 0:10:10.880 --> 0:10:11.440 pull it off. 0:10:11.480 --> 0:10:12.680 But you can't. 0:10:13.040 --> 0:10:15.040 You can't do that when you're bleeding. You can't do 0:10:15.160 --> 0:10:19.520 that when your face is hanging weird. My body was 0:10:19.520 --> 0:10:22.120 going to betray me, and it just felt so out 0:10:22.120 --> 0:10:22.839 of control. 0:10:23.080 --> 0:10:24.320 And as you. 0:10:24.280 --> 0:10:28.400 Hear this person says, there's everybody okay, you know, it's like, well, 0:10:28.440 --> 0:10:29.560 everybody was just screaming. 0:10:29.559 --> 0:10:31.360 Maybe they're not going to be able to pull it off. 0:10:31.240 --> 0:10:34.200 But no, there's this oh yeah, everything's fine, and just 0:10:34.440 --> 0:10:38.640 it was the depths of depression and despair because I 0:10:38.720 --> 0:10:41.640 was realizing I was still waiting. 0:10:41.400 --> 0:10:42.920 For permission. 0:10:43.880 --> 0:10:48.040 To ask for help, for permission to be believed, to 0:10:48.120 --> 0:10:51.040 be rescued, all of these things, and it was not 0:10:51.640 --> 0:10:55.840 going to come. And the heaviest thing was it is 0:10:56.000 --> 0:11:00.640 escalating so fast and my actual bodily safety is fleeing. 0:11:01.960 --> 0:11:05.640 I may die here, and I don't know if I 0:11:05.840 --> 0:11:09.240 have what it takes to get out. I'm the only one, like, 0:11:09.320 --> 0:11:12.079 nobody's coming. If I don't figure out how to get 0:11:12.080 --> 0:11:15.600 out of here, I'm going to die here. And I 0:11:15.880 --> 0:11:20.400 just at that moment wasn't sure it was even worth it, 0:11:20.480 --> 0:11:22.240 Like what am I escaping too? 0:11:22.600 --> 0:11:23.679 This is my family. 0:11:24.320 --> 0:11:26.440 I knew Sean at the time, and I part of 0:11:26.440 --> 0:11:29.480 me wanted to be in that relationship, but I hadn't 0:11:29.480 --> 0:11:32.000 fought for it, so maybe that wasn't even waiting for me. 0:11:32.080 --> 0:11:32.240 You know. 0:11:32.440 --> 0:11:36.040 I had to believe that I was worth, that I 0:11:36.080 --> 0:11:38.560 had value, that I deserved to be safe, and that 0:11:38.720 --> 0:11:42.280 just felt like so far away and so impossible. It 0:11:42.320 --> 0:11:45.960 was a dark couple months there, and chunks that are 0:11:46.240 --> 0:11:50.560 kind of missing. But I gave in and didn't protest 0:11:50.600 --> 0:11:53.600 and kind of took the sin on my shoulders for 0:11:53.640 --> 0:11:58.760 that period and accepted all those negative, you know, judgments 0:11:58.800 --> 0:12:01.840 of me. When I just kind of went, Okay, I surrender, 0:12:01.920 --> 0:12:05.080 I give up, I realized, well, actually, no, I'm no 0:12:05.160 --> 0:12:08.600 longer resisting that. But some part of me cannot do 0:12:08.679 --> 0:12:10.440 the dance and smile and be happy. 0:12:10.520 --> 0:12:11.400 That part's broken. 0:12:11.760 --> 0:12:17.000 But I can't really execute complete nothingness either, Like there's 0:12:17.040 --> 0:12:20.040 still a part of me that wants to survive and 0:12:20.559 --> 0:12:22.760 that kind of made its way to the surface. 0:12:23.440 --> 0:12:25.440 But there was just this normal day. 0:12:25.559 --> 0:12:29.360 It could have been any other horrible day during the 0:12:29.480 --> 0:12:32.880 dark period, but there's an altercation with my dad, and 0:12:33.080 --> 0:12:35.679 something in me went, that is the last time that happens. 0:12:35.840 --> 0:12:38.600 And it wasn't the question, it wasn't the theological statement. 0:12:38.640 --> 0:12:42.280 It just went, that is not happening again. And it 0:12:42.320 --> 0:12:45.480 almost felt like something outside of me. I now kind 0:12:45.480 --> 0:12:47.640 of actually view it, maybe from the core of me. 0:12:48.400 --> 0:12:52.360 I think little invisible girl that had borne all of. 0:12:52.280 --> 0:12:55.480 This time's up. That's it. I'm not putting up with 0:12:55.520 --> 0:12:56.199 any more of this. 0:12:57.200 --> 0:13:00.640 I had sort of been learning about some narcissism and 0:13:00.679 --> 0:13:04.000 talk about vocabulary. I was trying to get the vocabulary 0:13:04.080 --> 0:13:11.320 to describe twenty years of confusing traumatic experience. So there 0:13:11.360 --> 0:13:13.920 were these glimpses of clarity of Oh, I actually know 0:13:13.920 --> 0:13:16.199 what's happening here. I can see some of these dynamics, 0:13:16.640 --> 0:13:19.240 and I would do more of that before too long, 0:13:19.280 --> 0:13:22.040 but I knew he could keep me forever. I finally 0:13:22.080 --> 0:13:24.040 had this moment of oh, the chances are in your mind, 0:13:24.200 --> 0:13:25.760 they're not actually on the door. 0:13:26.120 --> 0:13:28.320 Most of the time. You know, like you can run. 0:13:28.520 --> 0:13:32.280 It is completely reasonable that you can run. And so 0:13:32.480 --> 0:13:32.959 when I just. 0:13:32.920 --> 0:13:34.800 Had that knowing of that's the last time that's going 0:13:34.840 --> 0:13:36.520 to happen. I'm not going to be here by the 0:13:36.600 --> 0:13:39.480 end of the day. I'm not sure exactly how. And 0:13:39.559 --> 0:13:40.960 so it was well, what are you going to do? 0:13:41.160 --> 0:13:42.440 Where are you going to go? And I was like, 0:13:42.520 --> 0:13:44.640 give me a phone. And if they had said no, 0:13:45.080 --> 0:13:47.640 you know, maybe I would have ran that night under 0:13:47.640 --> 0:13:49.400 cover of darkness when I found a chance. 0:13:49.720 --> 0:13:51.840 But they handed me a phone and I thought, Okay, 0:13:51.880 --> 0:13:52.560 who can I call? 0:13:53.600 --> 0:13:56.760 And I called my dad's cousin who was around my age, 0:13:57.200 --> 0:14:00.720 and I just said, can I come, Can I come 0:14:00.760 --> 0:14:01.040 see you? 0:14:01.200 --> 0:14:03.120 And she said sure, and I said can I bring 0:14:03.160 --> 0:14:04.920 a bag? She said sure. 0:14:06.280 --> 0:14:08.120 It's like trying to climb this wall, so you get 0:14:08.160 --> 0:14:10.040 a foothold and it enables you to get to the 0:14:10.080 --> 0:14:13.480 next So that told me I knew I was going 0:14:13.480 --> 0:14:15.400 to get out today because if I didn't show up, 0:14:15.760 --> 0:14:18.480 other people outside my family were going to wonder. So 0:14:18.559 --> 0:14:20.680 then I had that foothold, and then it was like, well, 0:14:20.960 --> 0:14:21.760 when are you going to go? 0:14:21.800 --> 0:14:22.560 What are you going to take? 0:14:22.600 --> 0:14:24.880 And my dad, he'd never really been in this position, 0:14:24.920 --> 0:14:27.800 and he did all he could to make sure he 0:14:27.880 --> 0:14:30.280 felt as in control all the situation as possible, and 0:14:30.320 --> 0:14:32.240 he framed it to the family that I had to 0:14:32.400 --> 0:14:36.480 leave my choices. We're going to reflect badly on the family. 0:14:37.240 --> 0:14:41.480 So he was pushing me out. And that's another kind 0:14:41.480 --> 0:14:43.960 of before and after a moment where I think it 0:14:44.000 --> 0:14:47.120 could have gone so many different ways, but everything changed 0:14:47.160 --> 0:14:49.720 really fast after that from that moment. 0:14:51.280 --> 0:14:55.480 It's interesting too, because there's something in there about the 0:14:55.600 --> 0:15:02.000 power of language and the power of naming things. Sean 0:15:02.080 --> 0:15:07.320 gives you this book that really describes what you know. 0:15:07.400 --> 0:15:12.720 Pathological narcissism is what it looks like, and that's the 0:15:12.720 --> 0:15:15.400 first time it's sort of like the word molested earlier, 0:15:15.840 --> 0:15:19.480 something clicks for you, where as like that day might 0:15:19.560 --> 0:15:21.840 not have been all that different from any other day, 0:15:21.920 --> 0:15:24.520 but the thing that was finally the last straw that 0:15:24.560 --> 0:15:27.720 said no more has something to do with the arsenal 0:15:27.840 --> 0:15:29.120 of language that you had. 0:15:29.160 --> 0:15:32.800 Now I believe that, and it's astounding how little it 0:15:32.800 --> 0:15:36.440 can take sometimes you know, just a few more words, 0:15:36.480 --> 0:15:39.160 because how would you actually feel if you were angry 0:15:39.160 --> 0:15:40.720 all the time but you didn't even have the word 0:15:41.000 --> 0:15:43.960 anger or any of his adjacent words, Like there's all 0:15:44.040 --> 0:15:48.120 this built up pressure and experience and like a lot 0:15:48.120 --> 0:15:51.800 of times very visceral feelings and there's no way to 0:15:51.880 --> 0:15:55.240 express it. And so certainly the emotional build up and 0:15:55.320 --> 0:15:58.520 back up and just years of events. And for me 0:15:58.600 --> 0:16:00.240 it was helpful is there were a lots lots of 0:16:00.240 --> 0:16:02.440 events that I still needed to sort through, lots of 0:16:02.440 --> 0:16:05.320 feelings I needed to sort through. But when you see 0:16:05.360 --> 0:16:08.400 the dynamics and you see the pattern, and you see 0:16:08.440 --> 0:16:14.080 the way things are related to each other, concepts like narcissism, dissociation, 0:16:15.080 --> 0:16:17.880 high control groups, things like that, I started seeing, Oh, 0:16:17.880 --> 0:16:22.040 my goodness, that's what I'm in right now. And yes, 0:16:22.080 --> 0:16:24.160 it's also in my family. Yes it's happened over years 0:16:24.160 --> 0:16:26.680 and years, and there's religion in here, and there's TV, 0:16:26.800 --> 0:16:27.840 and there's all these things. 0:16:28.400 --> 0:16:31.400 But those surface things didn't matter as much. 0:16:31.440 --> 0:16:33.960 The specifics don't matter. When you look at the patterns 0:16:34.000 --> 0:16:35.840 of grooming, or when you look at the patterns of 0:16:36.720 --> 0:16:40.960 abuse and violence, you notice that you can start to 0:16:41.000 --> 0:16:44.080 see the pillars that hold up how that all works, 0:16:44.400 --> 0:16:48.800 and if you disrupt that pattern, you just stop playing 0:16:48.920 --> 0:16:52.200 into that pattern. And to some degree, it's quite fragile 0:16:52.720 --> 0:16:54.560 and realizing that my dad. 0:16:54.520 --> 0:16:57.200 Had all this power, but what power did he really have? 0:16:57.920 --> 0:16:58.520 He kind of. 0:16:58.480 --> 0:17:03.040 Got it from all of us, yes, and trying to 0:17:03.120 --> 0:17:06.480 understand that, you know, when you're preyed on by such 0:17:06.600 --> 0:17:14.320 toxic narcissism, to remove the fuel, to remove giving my 0:17:14.520 --> 0:17:18.320 power over to prop up him. I had gotten to 0:17:18.359 --> 0:17:20.840 a point where the show couldn't really go on very 0:17:20.880 --> 0:17:23.320 well without me, and it put a lot of stress 0:17:23.359 --> 0:17:25.240 on my siblings that I would have loved to save 0:17:25.320 --> 0:17:28.080 them from. But there was kind of this awareness that 0:17:28.119 --> 0:17:29.960 I at least had at that moment, like looking at 0:17:29.960 --> 0:17:33.480 my dad, like, yeah, you have the power, but all I. 0:17:33.359 --> 0:17:35.760 Have to do is step away, and you like, you 0:17:35.800 --> 0:17:38.919 can't do anything to me anymore. What you've done to 0:17:38.960 --> 0:17:40.440 me is what I've let you do to me. 0:17:44.040 --> 0:17:48.280 Jessica and Sean finally get together for real. Jessica finds 0:17:48.359 --> 0:17:51.760 a really good trauma informed therapist, and she begins to 0:17:51.800 --> 0:17:58.920 learn the language of trauma, dissociation, compartmentalization, hypervigilance, putting words 0:17:59.119 --> 0:18:02.720 to experience she's been living inside her body for decades. 0:18:03.720 --> 0:18:06.919 She also hears a phrase for her therapist when she 0:18:07.000 --> 0:18:10.040 finally shares the scope of everything that has happened to 0:18:10.080 --> 0:18:15.679 her child rape Jessica had desperately wanted this to not 0:18:15.760 --> 0:18:19.520 be the case, but it is the case. The definition 0:18:19.640 --> 0:18:23.120 of child rape fits into the parameters of what her 0:18:23.119 --> 0:18:28.000 father has done to her. She is twenty four years old, 0:18:28.200 --> 0:18:31.720 she has no academic degree of any kind, since she's 0:18:31.760 --> 0:18:37.000 only ever been homeschooled, But what she does have is strength, love, 0:18:37.680 --> 0:18:41.280 the help she needs, and the knowledge that she is 0:18:41.400 --> 0:18:42.359 finally safe. 0:18:44.840 --> 0:18:49.119 This story is not the same without that support. It 0:18:49.160 --> 0:18:52.159 was just a marvel and it didn't really compute to 0:18:52.200 --> 0:18:56.119 me people who, for all practical purposes, didn't know me, 0:18:56.840 --> 0:19:01.240 you know. And certainly there was this compulsion to try 0:19:01.240 --> 0:19:03.719 to share, because how can you really be close, how 0:19:03.760 --> 0:19:05.040 can you really cleanse the moon. 0:19:04.920 --> 0:19:07.040 Without just getting it all out there? 0:19:07.080 --> 0:19:08.879 But I was I was doing that in therapy, and 0:19:08.920 --> 0:19:12.080 I was trying to, you know, get to know my 0:19:12.160 --> 0:19:15.360 husband and now my in laws, and they're welcoming community 0:19:15.359 --> 0:19:18.159 that just opened their arms to me. I was in 0:19:18.200 --> 0:19:21.320 a bad spot and I got so much help, and 0:19:21.359 --> 0:19:23.800 I know that doesn't happen for everyone. I just don't 0:19:23.840 --> 0:19:27.760 think you can separate my health journey and my recovery 0:19:27.760 --> 0:19:34.240 and everything from how critical really good trauma informed therapy 0:19:34.280 --> 0:19:35.880 really accepting. 0:19:35.440 --> 0:19:36.280 And loving people. 0:19:36.400 --> 0:19:39.879 And between those two things, I was also directed towards 0:19:39.920 --> 0:19:42.280 places where my therapy could be funded, you know, because 0:19:42.280 --> 0:19:46.000 I don't have my feet under me and you're trying 0:19:46.000 --> 0:19:47.960 to start our new life. It felt like, all right, 0:19:48.119 --> 0:19:51.680 I got away with my life. I'm going to try 0:19:51.680 --> 0:19:57.000 to start over. And as I'm learning and acquiring the 0:19:57.080 --> 0:19:59.520 vocabulary to understand what happened to me, whether it be 0:20:00.080 --> 0:20:03.320 learning that child rape did apply to me or oh, 0:20:03.480 --> 0:20:07.199 dissociation like that, so that means I was also learning 0:20:07.359 --> 0:20:13.400 about predators and perpetrators. Because the work that we immediately 0:20:13.480 --> 0:20:15.480 jumped into is like, where do you start. There's there's 0:20:15.520 --> 0:20:20.600 twenty four years to address, and the newer, most recent 0:20:20.640 --> 0:20:24.440 stuff with the tendencies and that the mob meant and 0:20:24.520 --> 0:20:28.359 all that felt like not the place to start. So 0:20:28.400 --> 0:20:31.080 we just I just went to when I was youngest, 0:20:31.240 --> 0:20:34.920 when it was clearest, when it's so obviously not my fault, 0:20:35.080 --> 0:20:38.240 and to understand, hey, this is how this happens. 0:20:38.720 --> 0:20:40.240 Many other people have gone through this. 0:20:40.359 --> 0:20:43.760 It was devastating and yet relieving and so empowering all 0:20:43.840 --> 0:20:45.800 the same time because I was able to move so 0:20:45.920 --> 0:20:50.520 quickly and there was less, you know, judgment to myself 0:20:50.600 --> 0:20:53.480 that would come up for my teenage self and my 0:20:53.520 --> 0:20:56.320 young adult self, but as my child self. That was 0:20:56.480 --> 0:21:00.040 really helpful to learn about other victims and survivors, and 0:21:00.119 --> 0:21:03.520 also to understand that it wasn't a problem of my 0:21:03.720 --> 0:21:06.960 dad or me as a daughter, like what's wrong with me? 0:21:07.520 --> 0:21:10.280 Understanding that this happens over and over and there is 0:21:10.320 --> 0:21:12.840 a pattern, and we have words that conscribe these things. 0:21:13.000 --> 0:21:16.800 And it became very chilling, very quick. This is no 0:21:16.880 --> 0:21:19.520 longer just my dad or my abuser, but this is 0:21:19.560 --> 0:21:23.960 a perpetrator that is out there, and so I'm doing 0:21:23.960 --> 0:21:26.600 my best to just get my feet underbeed do this 0:21:27.240 --> 0:21:32.359 extremely excruciating, heavy therapeutic work which is going to be 0:21:32.359 --> 0:21:37.439 a lifetime effort, but very quickly, you know, within weeks, 0:21:37.800 --> 0:21:40.720 especially as my therapist came to understand more, as I 0:21:40.760 --> 0:21:43.159 shared more with her, she was very aware it is 0:21:43.200 --> 0:21:47.280 a very dangerous situation, you know, And I would basically 0:21:47.480 --> 0:21:49.880 came to realize I was kind of needing to prepare 0:21:50.840 --> 0:21:53.359 to play a part and if this was ever going 0:21:53.440 --> 0:21:57.160 to stop, I was gonna have to talk about this, 0:21:57.920 --> 0:22:01.919 and you know, Sean and different people would ask me 0:22:02.040 --> 0:22:03.359 like can you report this? 0:22:03.400 --> 0:22:04.119 So you're ready to tell you. 0:22:04.160 --> 0:22:06.359 They were trying to be respectful and not force that 0:22:06.520 --> 0:22:09.320 on me because they knew I needed to try to 0:22:09.359 --> 0:22:12.240 get a sense of control and ownership over my body 0:22:12.280 --> 0:22:13.480 and my story and my experience. 0:22:14.200 --> 0:22:14.359 You know. 0:22:14.440 --> 0:22:16.560 The longer time went on, the more I could see 0:22:16.600 --> 0:22:19.840 that not that this whole thing is my fault, but 0:22:20.960 --> 0:22:24.480 it may be on me to stop this. 0:22:25.200 --> 0:22:27.200 And it's becoming. 0:22:26.680 --> 0:22:31.560 More and more of this moral weight that every day 0:22:31.600 --> 0:22:36.040 I don't do something, you know, if nothing else. I mean, 0:22:36.040 --> 0:22:38.920 hopefully my dad isn't preying on my sisters at this moment, 0:22:38.920 --> 0:22:42.560 but they're out in front of people selling a lie 0:22:42.600 --> 0:22:44.800 that is, you know, what was on the surface is 0:22:44.880 --> 0:22:48.120 totally not what was happening behind closed doors. And it 0:22:48.160 --> 0:22:51.800 was a real headspin to try to get the courage, 0:22:51.800 --> 0:22:56.520 and you just want to hide escape, but you feel 0:22:56.520 --> 0:23:01.360 like you have this huge responsibility. 0:23:02.359 --> 0:23:15.360 We'll be back in a moment with more family secrets. 0:23:16.840 --> 0:23:20.600 The initial report about Jessica's father is phoned into a 0:23:20.640 --> 0:23:24.040 hotline at the Tennessee Bureau of Investigation, and it is 0:23:24.080 --> 0:23:27.520