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Speaker 1: Whether you end up having Alzheimer's. It begins, we're like,

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Speaker 1: where did I put my keys? We can't tell you

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Speaker 1: which one's going to go to. Ten years later that

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Speaker 1: adult says, I can't find my way home. Since we

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Speaker 1: don't have that answer, everybody should do things to prevent

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Speaker 1: memory neurosurgence and in your biology, Doctor ruhu Jiandiel.

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Speaker 2: Why is it that we feel we can't remember anything anymore?

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Speaker 1: One of the most common questions people ask is when

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Speaker 1: they start forgetting, like where the keys are at? And

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Speaker 1: they say, hey, is this alzheimer or does this need

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Speaker 1: to be fixed? Is this natural?

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Speaker 2: What are we doing every day that's distracting and disrupting

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Speaker 2: a working.

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Speaker 1: Memory too much? Juggling multitasking has its own issues. You

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Speaker 1: want to get away from your thought hijacking your body?

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Speaker 2: Why do we replay negative memories? Why is it so easy?

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Speaker 1: So an emotional imprint on a memory requires no focus

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Speaker 1: in the technic. So emotional imprinting of a memory and

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Speaker 1: trauma makes it sometimes too easy to remember, and sometimes

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Speaker 1: it pops up without you even wanting to. When you

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Speaker 1: were able to revisit a memory in a controlled environment,

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Speaker 1: you can dampen your emotional stamp onto that memory. You

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Speaker 1: don't forget the memory, you just disassociate the emotional feelings

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Speaker 1: of the trauma the fear of the physical reaction.

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Speaker 2: For anyone concerned that their family member may have early

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Speaker 2: dementia Alzheimer's, what should they be looking out for and

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Speaker 2: how can they help that person?

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Speaker 1: The number one health and wellness podcast Jay Sheety.

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Speaker 2: Jay Shetty Sez jo. Hey, everyone, welcome back to On Purpose,

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Speaker 2: the place you come to listen, learn and grow. Today's

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Speaker 2: guest is someone that we had on last year and

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Speaker 2: you absolutely loved the episode. The response was incredible. We

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Speaker 2: had to have him back on It is none other

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Speaker 2: than doctor Raoul Johndel, a renowned neurosurgeon, neuroscientist, and author.

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Speaker 2: Doctor John Deal is known for his expertise brain surgery,

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Speaker 2: particularly in areas related to brain tumors, epilepsy, and other

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Speaker 2: brain disorders. Doctor John Delle is also a prominent public

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Speaker 2: speaker and educator, frequently sharing insights into the brain's complexity

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Speaker 2: and health. His work combines clinical practice with research aiming

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Speaker 2: to deepen our understanding of the brain and improve treatments

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Speaker 2: for neurological diseases. Please welcome back, doctor Roll John Dale.

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Speaker 2: It's great to have you back.

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Speaker 1: I'm stoked to be back, man.

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Speaker 2: People loved that episode and the response was so great

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Speaker 2: that we were like, we have to get you back

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Speaker 2: on for part two.

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Speaker 1: I mean, it was hard to tell for me because

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Speaker 1: you know, we're here and it's intimate. I feeling relaxed

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Speaker 1: and I can communicate, but then it's going out to

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Speaker 1: so many people, whereas if you do a you know,

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Speaker 1: live television or you do an audience event, you can

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Speaker 1: feel that energy like a sporting event. But I'm thrilled

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Speaker 1: to be back, man, and I'm I'm ready to just

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Speaker 1: just go off the top and just vibe.

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Speaker 2: I love it, man, I love it. I wanted to

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Speaker 2: dive in because I know you've been talking a lot

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Speaker 2: about memory, and that's been something you've been study quite

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Speaker 2: deeply recently. Why is it that we feel we can't

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Speaker 2: remember anything anymore?

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Speaker 1: So that was the most common question I would get

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Speaker 1: from my patient. So I'm a brain surgeon. I've taken

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Speaker 1: care of several thousand patients with surgery and the interaction

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Speaker 1: before and after surgery, and then I've met thousands. I

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Speaker 1: was talking to your team, like you know, not everybody

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Speaker 1: you see need surgery or benefits from surgery, or choose

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Speaker 1: a surgery. So there's just a lot of human interaction.

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Speaker 1: I've had thousands of patients. I'm fifty two. I've been

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Speaker 1: doing this since i was twenty five. And one of

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Speaker 1: the most common questions people ask when they start to

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Speaker 1: think about maybe my brain isn't going to be perfect

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Speaker 1: forever is when they start forgetting like where the keys

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Speaker 1: are at, or they stop remembering things, and they say, hey,

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Speaker 1: is this Alzheimer's? Does this need to be fixed? Is

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Speaker 1: this natural? So that the question of my memory is

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Speaker 1: fundamental and I'll zoom out for a little bit. People

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Speaker 1: who don't have memory of who they are are completely lost.

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Speaker 1: Every day they have to invent themselves new. So it's

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Speaker 1: an essential feature that one type of memory called autobiographic memory.

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Speaker 1: It stitches our memories of our childhood, lifetime experiences, and

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Speaker 1: it gives us a sense of identity meaning purpose, like

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Speaker 1: I have been the one in this vehicle of life

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Speaker 1: and those those experiences are connected, right, So memory is

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Speaker 1: essential in that way for identity. On a more practical level,

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Speaker 1: memory is not one word, so like there's a lot

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Speaker 1: of types of memory, and I think that's where today

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Speaker 1: I want to just take it one step deeper, Like

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Speaker 1: I don't have all the answers, but when I'm communicating

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Speaker 1: with patients, if I can take it one step deeper

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Speaker 1: in the explanation and they go, ah, I get it,

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Speaker 1: then they're more likely to implement the guidance they choose.

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Speaker 1: There are many types of memory. Memory is not one word.

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Speaker 1: So let's take one that we rarely lose, procedural memory.

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Speaker 1: Once you learn how to ride a bike, once you

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Speaker 1: learn how to like you know, tie your shoelaces. Patients

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Speaker 1: of mind that have Alzheimer's or even brain injury, or

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Speaker 1: just get eighties and nineties, they still remember that. Procedural

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Speaker 1: memory is not the one we need to be thinking about.

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Speaker 1: Then there's another type of memory called semantic memory, as facts.

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Speaker 1: I don't want to remember my phone number anymore, Matt,

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Speaker 1: I got facts on my phone. I want to connect

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Speaker 1: the dots, so those kind of things aren't as important.

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Speaker 1: Then there's a third type you can call episodic memory.

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Speaker 1: It's a fancy word for episodes. Again, like this happened

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Speaker 1: in my life, this episode, Now that's important. Unfortunately, that

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Speaker 1: type of memory is what's lost with dementia with aging,

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Speaker 1: and people worry about that, like does this mean I'm

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Speaker 1: aging normally or is this the onset of Alzheimer's. We

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Speaker 1: don't have that answer. So whether you end up having

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Speaker 1: Alzheimer's or whether you just have age appropriate subtle loss

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Speaker 1: of memory, it begins we're like, where did I put

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Speaker 1: my keys? Like it all begins that way, we can't

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Speaker 1: tell you which one's going to go to. Ten years later,

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Speaker 1: that adult says, I can't find my way home. So

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Speaker 1: that concept is so tricky that since we don't have

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Speaker 1: that answer, I believe everybody should do things to prevent

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Speaker 1: memory loss. Right, you don't, because if you go down

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Speaker 1: the Alzheimer's path or just a normal cognitive decline, the

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Speaker 1: guidance is still the same. ABC. Eat a certain way,

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Speaker 1: think a certain way, move a certain way. The guidance

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Speaker 1: ABC whether you're about to get Alzheimer's, don't know. If

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Speaker 1: you're bout to have Alzheimer's or normal aging or have

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Speaker 1: been diagnosed with Alzheimer's, the guidance is the same, and

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Speaker 1: that speaks to how the brain and mind works.

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Speaker 2: How bad is it that we can't remember what we

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Speaker 2: had for dinner last night.

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Speaker 1: Not a big deal at all, not a big deal,

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Speaker 1: not a big deal. So those glitches are age appropriate.

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Speaker 1: That happens in our thirties, forties, fifties, sixties, as we

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Speaker 1: get less young. I had Patience a long time ago.

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Speaker 1: She was ninety something. I said, well, you're older. She

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Speaker 1: looked at me with the just a scow. She was like, older,

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Speaker 1: I'm less young. So that since that day less young.

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Speaker 1: So as we get less young, that's natural.

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Speaker 2: Why what's happening, Well.

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Speaker 1: The answer is not clear because we don't study that.

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Speaker 1: What we do study is when it starts with age

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Speaker 1: appropriate sort of subtle memory loss. And if you zoom

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Speaker 1: out our whole about our knees age, our heart's age,

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Speaker 1: our mind's age, that's not necessarily a disease, but it's

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Speaker 1: age appropriate. Versus Alzheimer's, Alzheimer's and dementia, and like what

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Speaker 1: Bruce Willis has frontal temporal dimension, there's a lot of

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Speaker 1: different types of dementia. Maybe we should just call it dementia.

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Speaker 1: Is that it starts with a little bit of memory

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Speaker 1: loss that's just normal aging. But then it accelerates and

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Speaker 1: what people think is like, oh, they can't remember things.

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Speaker 1: It's more than that they can't remember their autobiographical memory.

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Speaker 1: They can't remember who they are because they don't remember

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Speaker 1: their stories from their childhood. Then they start forgetting who

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Speaker 1: the loved ones are and why they're loved ones autobiographical memory.

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Speaker 1: Then the injury goes even deeper and it affects their

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Speaker 1: emotional regulation. Like that's a big topic I love, I

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Speaker 1: wrote at a long time ago, Like the ability to

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Speaker 1: say I'm angry, but that's not what I want to

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Speaker 1: feel right now, that's not I don't want to act

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Speaker 1: right now. They lose emotional regulation. So for caregivers it's

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Speaker 1: very challenging. It's like you don't remember me, I'm your child,

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Speaker 1: and then on top of that, you're angry with me

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Speaker 1: all the time. It's a it's an intense experience, of

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Speaker 1: course for the patient. For the person, I wouldn't say,

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Speaker 1: why do can? We can? We never age in a

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Speaker 1: way that's super memory all the way. Let me, I'm

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Speaker 1: gonna get to that. I'm not sure we want perfect memory.

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Speaker 1: That's about facts, that's about procedures the area. The last

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Speaker 1: type of memory that I didn't mentioned is called working memory.

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Speaker 1: This is this is the memory I want, of course,

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Speaker 1: I want out of biographical memory. I'm who, I'm this,

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Speaker 1: I'm that, facts are on my phone. I think I'll

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Speaker 1: be able to, you know, handle a bike and laces

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Speaker 1: for a while. So let's get down to if you

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Speaker 1: want to level up. So the training for Alzheimer's and dementia,

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Speaker 1: the training for me, the training for an NFL quarterbacks,

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Speaker 1: for moving receivers, analysis, judgment, timing. That's called working memory.

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Speaker 1: Too much juggling, multitasking has its own issues, but working

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Speaker 1: memory is the skill I want. I want to be

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Speaker 1: able to run six governmental departments. I want to be

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Speaker 1: able to manage a hospital with sixteen patients on ventilators

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Speaker 1: when I was twenty eight. I want to manage talking

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Speaker 1: to you and having a bunch of ideas popping in

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Speaker 1: the back, and which one do I bring? Right? That's

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Speaker 1: called working memory, and there is guidance and training for that.

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Speaker 1: There is brain training for that type of memory. So

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Speaker 1: you ask me early, like, what's memory? So now we've

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Speaker 1: broken it out of several types, and the one we

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Speaker 1: want is short term juggling, a lot of plates, a

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Speaker 1: lot of thoughts in the sky, and that's where creativity

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Speaker 1: comes from. You're looking at things your working memories, pulling

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Speaker 1: back imagination. Working memory can be trained. Working memory is

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Speaker 1: the digital therapy peutic for Alzheimer's. Working memories like the

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Speaker 1: people I look up to, they're the ones that do

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Speaker 1: things the best because it's not just procedurally like I'm

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Speaker 1: looking at six monitors and able to operate. It's the

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Speaker 1: fact that I have a lot of thoughts in my

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Speaker 1: head and my working memories. Keeping them all immediately accessible.

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Speaker 1: I don't have to like, go, ah, well, where's that?

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Speaker 1: What was that? Now? I've got like eight or nine

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Speaker 1: things I want to talk to you about. My working

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Speaker 1: memory is keeping them afloat. Let it allow me to

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Speaker 1: extract them for you.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, For anyone who's listening right now and they're concerned

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Speaker 2: that their family member may have early dementia Alzheimer's, that direction,

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Speaker 2: what should they be looking out for and how can

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Speaker 2: they help that person?

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Speaker 1: The story is when humans passed away in our thirties

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Speaker 1: and forties, 're sort of like the heart that we're

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Speaker 1: out and then we live longer. We addressed heart disease.

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Speaker 1: Main you knows, as we live longer and longer, it's

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Speaker 1: the brain that's starting to wear out and if you

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Speaker 1: suspect that your family members having memory issues, the greatest

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Speaker 1: challenge will be, and I don't mean this lightly, is

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Speaker 1: that that person doesn't remember what they don't remember. They're

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Speaker 1: not thinking I forgot that because they don't remember that.

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Speaker 1: It's the loved ones that see it. So if you

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Speaker 1: see that, you have to invite them and say, look,

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Speaker 1: you know, I'm noticing a few different things in our

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Speaker 1: next general visit to the doctor, can we maybe mention

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Speaker 1: it to them? And they'll do a neurocognitive test. It's straightforward,

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Speaker 1: draw this circle backwards and they do like those that

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Speaker 1: like a little test. It's casual, but they can track it.

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Speaker 1: Say hey, can we do this every year? And you

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Speaker 1: track that test every year? And when you see that

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Speaker 1: you're drawing the clock and you're missing numbers. Even the

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Speaker 1: person with dementia will say, yeah, you know something's changing.

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Speaker 1: But if you try to persuade somebody who can't remember,

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Speaker 1: hey you're not remembering? Can you can see how that

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Speaker 1: could just not work right, So you want to get

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Speaker 1: them to somebody early. And what the physician will do

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Speaker 1: is take a look at that and then they say, hey,

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Speaker 1: do you have genetic history? And so certain Almost all

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Speaker 1: dementia is not genetic, but there are some genetic issues

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Speaker 1: that you want to know about. And then this is

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Speaker 1: the best part. Whether it's age appropriate cognitive decline of

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Speaker 1: certain memory, not working memory, the one where fight I'm

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Speaker 1: fine for, or it's early onset Alzheimer's, that we can identify.

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Speaker 1: The interventions are the same. Keep the brain arteries open,

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Speaker 1: eat a certain type of food, the mind diet, and

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Speaker 1: continue to challenge the brain puzzles, socializing, networking, taking a

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Speaker 1: different route home using your left hand. Learning a new language.

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Speaker 1: You have to learn the new language. You just have

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Speaker 1: to try. You might only get like three words. You're like, hey,

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Speaker 1: this language thing is not working. But it's the those

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Speaker 1: those three steps are are there is that's the established thing,

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Speaker 1: and I think that way that's empowering to the patient,

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Speaker 1: to the families. And it's not like pill and medicine dependent,

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Speaker 1: because frankly, there ain't good medicine for it.

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Speaker 2: Really.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, this is not a There are not great treatments

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Speaker 1: for Alzheimer's. They're out there, people can look at them.

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Speaker 1: They're for early cognitive decline. But when you even if

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Speaker 1: you were to take those medicines, you still got to

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Speaker 1: do the other things. You got to walk to keep

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Speaker 1: your brain arteries open. You got to irrigate the flesh.

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Speaker 1: You got to eat a mind die, which is fatty

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Speaker 1: fish or if you're vegan or plant based, you know

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Speaker 1: they have that. And then you got to like you

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Speaker 1: have to do those brain training and challenge your working memory.

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Speaker 1: The same thing with somebody with Alzheimer's about to get Alzheimer's,

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Speaker 1: worried about Alzheimer's, and you and me, it's the same recipe.

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Speaker 2: Let's break down the recipe for people who are listening

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Speaker 2: right now so that we can get into the details

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Speaker 2: of those three steps.

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Speaker 1: Like you know, uh, the brain is flesh. I remember

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Speaker 1: the first time I saw it when I was twenty

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Speaker 1: six and they opened the skull and I was like

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Speaker 1: watching the professors and I was like, what is this

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Speaker 1: even possible? And it gets twenty percent of the blood

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Speaker 1: from your heart with these four raging arteries that come up,

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Speaker 1: and it's like three pounds or five kilograms or whatever

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Speaker 1: it is, That three four pound organ gets twenty percent

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Speaker 1: of our blood flow. It is an energy hog. And

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Speaker 1: you think it's and then it's white opal lesson, it's

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Speaker 1: shimmering under the operating room lights. I mean, it's not

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Speaker 1: gray matter. Great matters when they when the patients passed

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Speaker 1: away and they've for mountain no no, and it's heat

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Speaker 1: with every breath that heaves a little bit. It's got

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Speaker 1: fluid chambers on it. It's like, it's the way to

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Speaker 1: imagine it is like one hundred billion ish jellyfish in

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Speaker 1: an aquarium, but there's fluid in there and they're shooting

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Speaker 1: electricity and chemicals at it. You mentioned something about when

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Speaker 1: I said sleep entry, and you said, yeah, versus falling asleep.

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Speaker 1: Language is important for our concepts. That's what I try

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Speaker 1: to do. Before I came on today, it was like,

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Speaker 1: how do I describe this in a way where it's

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Speaker 1: not like lebrain. I'd say the same thing. I'm not

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Speaker 1: throwing shade on anybody, but take your imagination away that

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Speaker 1: it's one hundred billion jellyfish packed together in clusters, floating

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Speaker 1: in an aquarium inside her skull. Our brain doesn't sit

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Speaker 1: on the inside of her skull. It's buoyant and it's

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Speaker 1: spring electricity, and it's not in left and right directions.

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Speaker 1: It's like Aurora borealis, or a school of birds that

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Speaker 1: rolls back onto each other. Right, it's a there's an

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Speaker 1: electrical flow that's shivering through those through those jellyfish, right, Like,

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Speaker 1: that's how you got to imagine it. So when you

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Speaker 1: look at it, the first thing you need to know

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Speaker 1: is those four arteries that come and feed this garden. Right,

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Speaker 1: And the neurons are like roses. You get what you get.

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Speaker 1: You're not really growing neurons. It's a mild exception with

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Speaker 1: stem cells. And then there's all the supporting cells what

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Speaker 1: I call like shrubs, like extracites. Like you want to

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Speaker 1: keep that garden irrigated, you sprinkle the lawn, right, You

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Speaker 1: got to sprinkle blood to that flesh because that activity

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Speaker 1: in those neurons is relying on the glucose coming up,

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Speaker 1: and glucose is the fuel to keep those little molecular

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Speaker 1: jellyfish alive. So people say, well, what do I do

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Speaker 1: to keep my brain shot? Well, keep those arteries open.

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Speaker 1: How do you keep those arteries open? You know that

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Speaker 1: take the lipiatore walk exercise. That's not just to look good.

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Speaker 1: It's to keep the main arteries and all those fine

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Speaker 1: branching arteries going into those crevices open because if you

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Speaker 1: start losing swaths of brain tissue. You're gonna have issues,

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Speaker 1: not always. But that's the first thing. Is heart health

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Speaker 1: is also brain health. That's the easiest thing. Okay. Number

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Speaker 1: two is what you eat, not today or tomorrow, but

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Speaker 1: over a decade. And this is well established. This isn't

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Speaker 1: like one study globally the Mediterranean diet, which is mostly plants,

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Speaker 1: fatty fish, beans, nuts. Those people, if you just look

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Speaker 1: at like thousands and thousands over a decade or two,

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Speaker 1: they have lower rates of dementia. And that's the only

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Speaker 1: difference that they're having. That's the recommendation we give to people.

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Speaker 1: So you say, well, why is that that kind of diet?

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Speaker 1: Why does that work? And look, love have a burger,

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Speaker 1: I love it. I mean, it's not the indulgences, it's

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Speaker 1: that baseline habit with fish. Those neurons, the neurons, if

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Speaker 1: you think of it as a jellyfish, all these tentacles

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Speaker 1: ten you know, they rough numbers ten thousand, hundred or whatever.

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Speaker 1: But the electrical signals that flow between our neurons, they're

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Speaker 1: wrapped with something insulation. The insulation lets the electricity fire faster.

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Speaker 1: That insulation is literally made of omega three fat. The

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Speaker 1: brain is fatty. The fat that the brain uses to

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Speaker 1: keep insulated comes from fatty fish and those kinds of things.

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Speaker 1: So there's a reason to eat that way. And the

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Speaker 1: last thing we've been talking about all you know all

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Speaker 1: morning is focus on untentioned, on your next level of

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Speaker 1: not somebody else's right, Because if I told you, hey,

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Speaker 1: you want bigger biceps, we would say we need it.

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Speaker 1: But this is a thinking flesh, This is a feeling flesh.

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Speaker 1: This is an interconnected flesh. So vibe, think, read, whatever

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Speaker 1: that is for you. But the combination of those three

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Speaker 1: things is well established and there is no shortcut.

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Speaker 2: Before we dive into the next moment. Let's hear from

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Speaker 2: our sponsors. Thanks for taking a moment for that. Now

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Speaker 2: back to the discussion. I love the way you've broken

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Speaker 2: down the different memories. I had no idea that there

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Speaker 2: were so many different words for memory, and I love

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Speaker 2: that because it helps us really compartmentalize how we think

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Speaker 2: about this really big topic. But when I'm listening to you,

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Speaker 2: I'm wondering what are we doing every day that's distracting

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Speaker 2: and disrupting our working memory.

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Speaker 1: So what I try to do is I try to

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Speaker 1: take my patient stories I try to look at the

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Speaker 1: neurons in a Petrie dish. I read a lot. I

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Speaker 1: read a lot of random things, and I try to

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Speaker 1: think about how to answer that. What's the right How

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Speaker 1: do you thread the needle between juggling enough to where

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Speaker 1: you're holding on to and cultivating your working memory or

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Speaker 1: you're just like just numb by this like blitz of

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Speaker 1: things coming at you. Yeah, I think it's very individual.

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Speaker 1: I would say it's different for children because, as we

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Speaker 1: discussed last time, we're learning to move and walk, and

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Speaker 1: the brain is learning to have a sense of self.

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Speaker 1: There's a psychological cultivation that mirrors our physical cultivation. You

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Speaker 1: don't want to flood that mind with too much. I'll

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Speaker 1: let others comment on at which age they should be

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Speaker 1: on social media or not. But the concept I think

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Speaker 1: we can all agree on based on science and this

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Speaker 1: conversation is in the developing mind. It doesn't have the

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Speaker 1: filter and it doesn't have the maturity of that working memory.

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Speaker 1: You don't want a kid. Our raised three sons, they're nineteen,

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Speaker 1: twenty and twenty three, so I'm talking from the perspective

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Speaker 1: a parent. I always try to see where are they at,

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Speaker 1: and then add one more thing. But sometimes when I

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Speaker 1: see families with their patients in the waiting room, I

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Speaker 1: mean the kids just look down at their phones for

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Speaker 1: like one hundred hours. You know. It's like you look

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Speaker 1: at their you know, the they've been on there, and

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Speaker 1: you ask her how long you've been on there, like

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Speaker 1: a lot of them. It's just it feels excessive for

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Speaker 1: that age. And then it's also the content at the

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Speaker 1: later range of life. You want certain brain training games

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Speaker 1: for elderly they have shown like it's FDA proved. That

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Speaker 1: means you brought a lot of evidence in it. It's

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Speaker 1: not just one study. I'm not throwing shade on anybody.

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Speaker 1: But the game is it's a racer game where like

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Speaker 1: grandma's like racing a car and there's distractions coming up

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Speaker 1: and she has to avoid them. Same thing for NFL quarterbacks.

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Speaker 1: I think it was Atlanta. He's a broadcaster, now he's

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Speaker 1: a quarterback. That a game where they're looking at something

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Speaker 1: but different lights are popping up and they have to

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Speaker 1: identify them in their peripheral vision. That speed of processing,

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Speaker 1: that working memory is an important skill. The question is

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Speaker 1: when are you stunting its development and when are you

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Speaker 1: cultivating I think it's age specific. I think it's individual specific.

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Speaker 1: I think when we know we're just doing some something

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Speaker 1: to shut down versus doing it as training, so that

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Speaker 1: portal can be both. It can mess you up, it

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Speaker 1: can hold you back, but if you have the right

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Speaker 1: digital diet man, it can open up the world for you.

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Speaker 1: So I think that's the way I look at it.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I always think about it like an elastic band,

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Speaker 2: and it's this idea that an elastic band is useless

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Speaker 2: if it's not being stretched, but at the same time,

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Speaker 2: there's a point at which it will snap. Yeah, and

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Speaker 2: I've seen that with my own memory or my ability,

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Speaker 2: my working memories. You describe it where I used to

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Speaker 2: think I was doing everything I could, and then I

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Speaker 2: stretched and I was like, oh wow, I could do

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Speaker 2: more than I believe. And then I stretched, and then

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Speaker 2: I stretched, and I started to realize that my capacity

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Speaker 2: and capability was far larger than I ever imagined.

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Speaker 1: And you were developing it with each stretch exactly.

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Speaker 2: But if I accepted where I was that, oh this

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Speaker 2: is the most I can do, actually, I would never

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Speaker 2: have known. And you're saying that in some ways that's unhealthy,

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Speaker 2: unhealthy that you you don't stretch and challenge. You say,

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Speaker 2: video kids, you're always adding, oh yeah.

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Speaker 1: So many flies to space. They don't have gravitational force,

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Speaker 1: they come back. Their bones are brittle. You need certain

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Speaker 1: amount of stress at the bone, at the osteocyte level.

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Speaker 1: Like physiologically we need gravity. So some stress makes us grow.

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Speaker 1: Too much stress fractures that bone. Okay, take that physiologic

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Speaker 1: concept and apply that same to the mind. Now what

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Speaker 1: I would say is that elastic band, I love that.

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Speaker 1: And if you leave it idle and that elastic band

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Speaker 1: gets dry, then the stretching is too late. And then

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Speaker 1: the last thing I would add to that is when

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Speaker 1: my sons and others they play video games is a

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Speaker 1: very well studied thing. If you give them multiple levels,

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Speaker 1: they'll compete to level up. But if you just present

428
00:22:42,200 --> 00:22:44,719
Speaker 1: them the fifth level, they'll just say, nah, that's too hard.

429
00:22:45,160 --> 00:22:46,920
Speaker 1: And if you make it too easy, then won't hold

430
00:22:46,960 --> 00:22:49,679
Speaker 1: their at tension. So the nuance is exactly is to

431
00:22:49,720 --> 00:22:53,280
Speaker 1: find where am Where am I at? Not that person's advice,

432
00:22:53,359 --> 00:22:56,560
Speaker 1: not that person's life, but from everything that I've taken

433
00:22:56,600 --> 00:23:02,199
Speaker 1: in where am I at? Where the appropriate next stress challenge?

434
00:23:02,600 --> 00:23:05,240
Speaker 1: Stretch of the rubber band, next level on the video

435
00:23:05,240 --> 00:23:09,320
Speaker 1: game is there that's enticing enough achievable with some effort,

436
00:23:09,359 --> 00:23:11,280
Speaker 1: and then I get there, and then I get there,

437
00:23:11,440 --> 00:23:13,480
Speaker 1: and then I get there and then I get knocked down,

438
00:23:14,119 --> 00:23:18,200
Speaker 1: because life is going to knock you down. That's part

439
00:23:18,240 --> 00:23:20,680
Speaker 1: of its struggle and its beauty. And then you might

440
00:23:20,720 --> 00:23:23,800
Speaker 1: find yourself not at those same levels, not with those

441
00:23:23,840 --> 00:23:28,000
Speaker 1: same coping mechanisms, but remembering that it's an incremental crawl

442
00:23:28,119 --> 00:23:30,399
Speaker 1: out of that ditch that your mind can fall into.

443
00:23:30,760 --> 00:23:33,040
Speaker 1: I've seen it in my cancer pati of their heroes.

444
00:23:33,359 --> 00:23:37,080
Speaker 1: And so if the lesson there is that our working memory,

445
00:23:37,119 --> 00:23:43,160
Speaker 1: our memory, everything from bones to biology to trees, we

446
00:23:43,320 --> 00:23:48,400
Speaker 1: need stress and pressure. It's a thermostat. Stress isn't all bad,

447
00:23:48,400 --> 00:23:52,119
Speaker 1: A stress isn't all good, And it's individual stress for

448
00:23:52,200 --> 00:23:55,440
Speaker 1: you might be different than stress for me. In the hospital.

449
00:23:55,440 --> 00:23:58,600
Speaker 1: There are stresses that certain friends of mine can handle.

450
00:23:59,119 --> 00:24:01,680
Speaker 1: It's a massive stress. Yes, you're operating the middle of

451
00:24:01,680 --> 00:24:05,000
Speaker 1: the night, you're handling fifteen patients for them, they're right

452
00:24:05,040 --> 00:24:07,760
Speaker 1: at that. For other people that might inundate them, and

453
00:24:07,800 --> 00:24:10,080
Speaker 1: that's not appropriate. So it has to be an individual thing.

454
00:24:10,600 --> 00:24:16,399
Speaker 1: But biologically, physiologically, psychologically, I think knowing thyself is to

455
00:24:16,480 --> 00:24:20,520
Speaker 1: know what's that next challenge for me that's enticing, that's

456
00:24:20,520 --> 00:24:23,400
Speaker 1: achievable with effort, that's not too easy, so I don't

457
00:24:23,840 --> 00:24:26,640
Speaker 1: give it down, or just there's no way I can

458
00:24:26,680 --> 00:24:28,040
Speaker 1: get there, so I'm not even going to try.

459
00:24:28,240 --> 00:24:32,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's a brilliant book called flow State by Mihai

460
00:24:32,200 --> 00:24:34,360
Speaker 2: Cheek said me Hi if I'm saying his surname right,

461
00:24:34,840 --> 00:24:37,440
Speaker 2: that explains this so brilliantly. He talks about the need

462
00:24:38,080 --> 00:24:42,040
Speaker 2: for having your skills meet your challenge. And so he

463
00:24:42,080 --> 00:24:44,439
Speaker 2: talks about this idea that either what most of us

464
00:24:44,520 --> 00:24:48,080
Speaker 2: experience is our challenge is above our skills, So we

465
00:24:48,119 --> 00:24:51,320
Speaker 2: get frustrated, right, we get really disappointed. You might even

466
00:24:51,320 --> 00:24:53,639
Speaker 2: get depressed because your challenge is so high and your

467
00:24:53,640 --> 00:24:56,440
Speaker 2: skills are so low. Or you have the opposite where

468
00:24:56,440 --> 00:24:59,000
Speaker 2: your skills are really high but your challenge is low.

469
00:24:59,080 --> 00:25:02,719
Speaker 2: Now you're bored. Now you're disconnected. Now you're disengaged because

470
00:25:02,880 --> 00:25:05,199
Speaker 2: you can practically do everything with these And so he

471
00:25:05,200 --> 00:25:09,760
Speaker 2: talks about flow state, which is what we see athletes, musicians, singers.

472
00:25:09,840 --> 00:25:12,600
Speaker 2: These people are in their moments or in the zone

473
00:25:13,280 --> 00:25:17,240
Speaker 2: is when their experiences and their skills meet their challenge.

474
00:25:17,680 --> 00:25:20,320
Speaker 2: And while we're talking about this, the part that I

475
00:25:20,359 --> 00:25:22,680
Speaker 2: was thinking about is why do we get so stressed

476
00:25:23,119 --> 00:25:26,040
Speaker 2: when we can't remember something right? When we're like, oh, man,

477
00:25:26,080 --> 00:25:28,080
Speaker 2: I wanted to tell you about that movie, and I

478
00:25:28,160 --> 00:25:29,800
Speaker 2: want to tell you about that Oh what was the

479
00:25:29,880 --> 00:25:33,760
Speaker 2: actor's name? Oh gosh? You know, we get so frustrated

480
00:25:33,760 --> 00:25:35,760
Speaker 2: when we're we almost feel that glitch.

481
00:25:35,960 --> 00:25:39,040
Speaker 1: I think that's because we assume that we're slowing down

482
00:25:39,119 --> 00:25:40,720
Speaker 1: or shutting down. And know what I'm trying to tell

483
00:25:40,760 --> 00:25:44,880
Speaker 1: people is that memory outsource that to your phone. There

484
00:25:44,880 --> 00:25:48,080
Speaker 1: are people who forget their keys, forget other people's names.

485
00:25:48,160 --> 00:25:52,240
Speaker 1: That's appropriate as we get less young, but older people

486
00:25:52,480 --> 00:25:56,600
Speaker 1: can still have high working memory, fight for working memory

487
00:25:56,760 --> 00:25:59,240
Speaker 1: and stay with that. Back to the flow state. I

488
00:25:59,320 --> 00:26:01,040
Speaker 1: love that, man. I mean, I wrote about it a

489
00:26:01,080 --> 00:26:04,240
Speaker 1: little bit. I'm familiar with the book, and I think

490
00:26:04,280 --> 00:26:10,160
Speaker 1: the insight that he provided is that one it's individual.

491
00:26:11,240 --> 00:26:13,840
Speaker 1: You can be in a flow state driving, you could

492
00:26:13,840 --> 00:26:16,240
Speaker 1: be in a flow state sewing, you can be a

493
00:26:16,240 --> 00:26:19,480
Speaker 1: flow state holding your kid. It's not only for high

494
00:26:19,560 --> 00:26:23,280
Speaker 1: level people. I think you know as described that it's

495
00:26:23,520 --> 00:26:28,200
Speaker 1: again individual, it's personal, but it takes knowing not what

496
00:26:28,240 --> 00:26:31,560
Speaker 1: other people's ambitions and desires are not what other people's

497
00:26:31,560 --> 00:26:33,399
Speaker 1: goals are. It takes knowing like this is something I

498
00:26:33,440 --> 00:26:35,600
Speaker 1: want to get better at, this is something I want

499
00:26:35,600 --> 00:26:39,040
Speaker 1: to cultivate myself. I think that's what I liked about

500
00:26:39,040 --> 00:26:41,719
Speaker 1: his book was that it wasn't about the skill. It

501
00:26:41,760 --> 00:26:44,560
Speaker 1: was at your skill level. Yes, it's brain searchers are

502
00:26:44,600 --> 00:26:46,520
Speaker 1: in flow state. I think it's are in flow state.

503
00:26:46,720 --> 00:26:49,399
Speaker 1: He studied them to understand that. The second thing that

504
00:26:49,440 --> 00:26:53,040
Speaker 1: I liked about it often there's a physical component and

505
00:26:53,080 --> 00:26:57,000
Speaker 1: a thinking component. And I love that because there have

506
00:26:57,080 --> 00:27:01,080
Speaker 1: been times where I don't know, I mean people think

507
00:27:01,160 --> 00:27:03,600
Speaker 1: like people think like brain surgery is like fixing a car.

508
00:27:03,720 --> 00:27:06,600
Speaker 1: You do these twenty steps. It's every tissue, every cancer

509
00:27:06,680 --> 00:27:09,520
Speaker 1: is reverse sculpting. There's at some point you have to

510
00:27:09,680 --> 00:27:13,840
Speaker 1: just you have to let the maneuvers go where like

511
00:27:13,960 --> 00:27:16,560
Speaker 1: it's a dance. When I've seen it done with finesse

512
00:27:16,600 --> 00:27:20,480
Speaker 1: at the highest level, and in those occasions where I'm

513
00:27:20,480 --> 00:27:25,000
Speaker 1: feeling that, I just remember feeling so good about what

514
00:27:25,040 --> 00:27:29,600
Speaker 1: was happening without every thought being engineered and structured, like

515
00:27:29,920 --> 00:27:32,600
Speaker 1: there was a I felt proud that there was a

516
00:27:32,600 --> 00:27:36,080
Speaker 1: skill being released. And I think that's a flow state

517
00:27:36,400 --> 00:27:39,600
Speaker 1: for me during surgery. Sometimes when I grew up in

518
00:27:39,720 --> 00:27:42,439
Speaker 1: La so when the freeways are open, I took a long,

519
00:27:42,800 --> 00:27:45,679
Speaker 1: fast drive through all the open roads. I had my

520
00:27:45,680 --> 00:27:47,840
Speaker 1: white coat. I'm a surgeon, so we were allowed to

521
00:27:47,840 --> 00:27:50,199
Speaker 1: be on there. But for driving, some people they just

522
00:27:50,200 --> 00:27:55,359
Speaker 1: describe it. It's again, it's both paying attention externally and

523
00:27:55,400 --> 00:27:59,720
Speaker 1: then doing something physically. I think the combination the physical

524
00:27:59,800 --> 00:28:04,119
Speaker 1: move move physical activity I think should not be underestimated.

525
00:28:04,160 --> 00:28:07,280
Speaker 1: Let me give you a specific example, the overlap of

526
00:28:08,800 --> 00:28:14,760
Speaker 1: wanting and desire those circuits. When you talk about flow state,

527
00:28:15,240 --> 00:28:18,720
Speaker 1: it's not just a psychological thing. The most times I

528
00:28:18,840 --> 00:28:20,359
Speaker 1: felt that it's a mind body thing.

529
00:28:20,800 --> 00:28:23,560
Speaker 2: What's the connection between you mentioned their focus and attention,

530
00:28:24,200 --> 00:28:26,600
Speaker 2: what's the connection with memory? Because I think a lot

531
00:28:26,600 --> 00:28:28,520
Speaker 2: of us are trying to be more present. Okay, we

532
00:28:28,560 --> 00:28:31,000
Speaker 2: see it as valuable. When we meet someone you forget

533
00:28:31,040 --> 00:28:33,440
Speaker 2: their name instantly. You're right, the facts will be there.

534
00:28:33,720 --> 00:28:36,120
Speaker 2: But there's a part of us that feel like we're

535
00:28:36,119 --> 00:28:40,000
Speaker 2: almost looking through people, We're not really there. How much

536
00:28:40,080 --> 00:28:43,240
Speaker 2: does focus and attention actually impact memory or are they

537
00:28:43,280 --> 00:28:43,920
Speaker 2: not connected?

538
00:28:44,040 --> 00:28:45,640
Speaker 1: You know, that's a good question. I don't think I

539
00:28:45,640 --> 00:28:48,160
Speaker 1: have a specific answer about that. I haven't read about that,

540
00:28:48,240 --> 00:28:50,520
Speaker 1: but I will tell I will tell you that memory

541
00:28:51,320 --> 00:28:55,760
Speaker 1: to retrieve it is a reconstruction. There's no rolodex or

542
00:28:55,760 --> 00:28:58,880
Speaker 1: a filing cabinet. You pull it out. Memory is built.

543
00:28:59,280 --> 00:29:00,000
Speaker 2: What do you mean by that.

544
00:29:00,320 --> 00:29:04,160
Speaker 1: Let's think of the brain as an ecosystem, right, the

545
00:29:04,240 --> 00:29:07,960
Speaker 1: general electricity that you can record electric is like an atmosphere.

546
00:29:08,560 --> 00:29:10,880
Speaker 1: Then we have the flesh, the lobes. We can talk

547
00:29:10,920 --> 00:29:14,720
Speaker 1: about that. Then we have networks and circuits like things

548
00:29:14,760 --> 00:29:16,840
Speaker 1: that work in ensembles. They go up and down together.

549
00:29:17,000 --> 00:29:19,040
Speaker 1: They never turn off. It's always like fifty one to

550
00:29:19,120 --> 00:29:21,440
Speaker 1: forty nine. There's no part of the brain that shuts off.

551
00:29:21,800 --> 00:29:23,800
Speaker 1: And then there's individual neurons. You can think of them

552
00:29:23,840 --> 00:29:27,240
Speaker 1: as like each tree in a forest. When we talk

553
00:29:27,280 --> 00:29:32,400
Speaker 1: about memory, it is not a filing cabinet. It's a

554
00:29:32,480 --> 00:29:36,280
Speaker 1: hub and so it pulls. Like I want to remember something.

555
00:29:36,840 --> 00:29:40,920
Speaker 1: The easiest way for me to remember something and sometimes unavoidable,

556
00:29:41,040 --> 00:29:43,680
Speaker 1: like you can't even forget it, is when the emotional

557
00:29:44,240 --> 00:29:47,240
Speaker 1: structures and regions of your brain have put a stamp

558
00:29:47,280 --> 00:29:51,040
Speaker 1: on it. So emotional imprinting of a memory and trauma

559
00:29:51,520 --> 00:29:55,280
Speaker 1: makes it sometimes too easy to remember, and sometimes it

560
00:29:55,320 --> 00:29:58,600
Speaker 1: pops up without even wanting to write. So that's one

561
00:29:58,640 --> 00:30:03,240
Speaker 1: type of focus attention. Emotional stamping. I don't amygdala is

562
00:30:03,280 --> 00:30:06,240
Speaker 1: not positive, it's not negative stamping. It's just emotional stamping,

563
00:30:06,480 --> 00:30:09,520
Speaker 1: both positive and negative. So an emotional imprint on a

564
00:30:09,600 --> 00:30:14,520
Speaker 1: memory requires no focus and attention. It's just churning back there.

565
00:30:15,040 --> 00:30:18,800
Speaker 1: It's activated. The smell can pop it open. You don't

566
00:30:18,800 --> 00:30:20,400
Speaker 1: want to think about it, and it's coming up. I

567
00:30:20,400 --> 00:30:22,960
Speaker 1: think we all know that, right, Like things we don't

568
00:30:23,000 --> 00:30:25,400
Speaker 1: want to think about feelings, We don't have memories of

569
00:30:25,400 --> 00:30:30,000
Speaker 1: the past blended with imagination, so you don't require attention

570
00:30:30,080 --> 00:30:33,200
Speaker 1: and focus for some types of memory, usually the ones

571
00:30:33,240 --> 00:30:35,800
Speaker 1: with emotional stamps. We can get into trauma and that

572
00:30:35,880 --> 00:30:39,080
Speaker 1: sort of thing for the right for the rest of it,

573
00:30:39,560 --> 00:30:42,840
Speaker 1: if we're engaging people. Then on the other side is

574
00:30:43,360 --> 00:30:46,080
Speaker 1: there's all this like you don't want to remember all

575
00:30:46,120 --> 00:30:49,080
Speaker 1: of this. It's not really relevant, right, it's a habit,

576
00:30:49,600 --> 00:30:52,360
Speaker 1: you're driving, you make that exit. There's a memory, there's

577
00:30:52,400 --> 00:30:55,040
Speaker 1: a procedural memory I don't want to think about, like

578
00:30:55,120 --> 00:30:58,840
Speaker 1: tying my shoelad. So somewhere in between is the attention

579
00:30:59,560 --> 00:31:02,680
Speaker 1: to I should remember this. I want to remember this.

580
00:31:03,360 --> 00:31:06,960
Speaker 1: So memories, emotionally imprinted memories you don't need. You're just

581
00:31:07,040 --> 00:31:11,120
Speaker 1: driving on the freeway and in between. The emotional memory

582
00:31:11,160 --> 00:31:14,320
Speaker 1: is easy. The attention and focus to memory is hard

583
00:31:15,120 --> 00:31:20,560
Speaker 1: because it's a decremental process. Meaning bandwidth is a casual word,

584
00:31:20,600 --> 00:31:24,000
Speaker 1: but it takes effort. The emotional thing, oh, it just

585
00:31:24,000 --> 00:31:26,400
Speaker 1: strikes you. The other one you don't want. So attention

586
00:31:26,880 --> 00:31:30,720
Speaker 1: and focus requires effort. And so when you have people

587
00:31:30,760 --> 00:31:32,720
Speaker 1: you're talking to you want to remember something where you

588
00:31:32,800 --> 00:31:37,080
Speaker 1: want to remember them or their names, that attention and

589
00:31:37,120 --> 00:31:40,200
Speaker 1: focus is something you have to dial up. And there's

590
00:31:40,200 --> 00:31:43,120
Speaker 1: a couple of ways to dial it up. Removing distractions.

591
00:31:43,280 --> 00:31:45,680
Speaker 1: When I talk to Lebron James, it's like it's about

592
00:31:46,000 --> 00:31:48,440
Speaker 1: not thinking about it. There's one way is to remove

593
00:31:48,480 --> 00:31:54,520
Speaker 1: distractions or increase attention, and that's individual focus. Is if

594
00:31:54,520 --> 00:31:59,720
Speaker 1: you haven't slept, your energy towards attention is less. It's decremental.

595
00:32:00,000 --> 00:32:02,800
Speaker 1: They call it decremental vigilance. Like if you're on guard

596
00:32:02,840 --> 00:32:05,120
Speaker 1: in a military situation, like after a certain amount of

597
00:32:05,120 --> 00:32:08,840
Speaker 1: hours or long surgery or a long shift to the hospital,

598
00:32:09,280 --> 00:32:11,320
Speaker 1: it fades. If you're in the middle. Just look I

599
00:32:11,360 --> 00:32:13,520
Speaker 1: want to have more focus and attention to this. The

600
00:32:13,640 --> 00:32:18,080
Speaker 1: natural answers lessen the distraction, be rested, and you know,

601
00:32:18,120 --> 00:32:20,200
Speaker 1: make it a priority. But that's within each of our

602
00:32:20,240 --> 00:32:22,000
Speaker 1: minds based on what we're looking at.

603
00:32:22,200 --> 00:32:24,160
Speaker 2: So when you just told me before we started that

604
00:32:24,280 --> 00:32:29,720
Speaker 2: you're doing brain surgery at three am today, how do

605
00:32:29,840 --> 00:32:35,200
Speaker 2: you maintain a level of attention? Obviously there's no distractions.

606
00:32:36,000 --> 00:32:39,240
Speaker 1: Distructions people walking around, things are going wrong, are going off.

607
00:32:39,280 --> 00:32:41,560
Speaker 1: You got to tell somebody, hey know my music today.

608
00:32:41,760 --> 00:32:44,200
Speaker 2: So walk me through that. How are you that focused

609
00:32:44,240 --> 00:32:47,680
Speaker 2: with something that sensitive in that moment? How do you

610
00:32:47,720 --> 00:32:49,760
Speaker 2: prepare for that type of surgery?

611
00:32:49,880 --> 00:32:53,120
Speaker 1: So the skill, the cultivation is to know when this

612
00:32:53,240 --> 00:32:58,080
Speaker 1: task can be performed casually, going to the cafeteria, talking

613
00:32:58,080 --> 00:33:01,880
Speaker 1: to a patient. Your emotional intensity is there, but you

614
00:33:01,880 --> 00:33:05,040
Speaker 1: you learn to dial up and dial down as the

615
00:33:05,080 --> 00:33:09,600
Speaker 1: situation requires. It's the fancy word is ecological validity, Like

616
00:33:09,840 --> 00:33:12,120
Speaker 1: you got you got a game plan, but it's got

617
00:33:12,160 --> 00:33:15,240
Speaker 1: to be tested. And so that long training in those

618
00:33:15,320 --> 00:33:20,240
Speaker 1: long hours was partly because they needed labor, partly because

619
00:33:20,240 --> 00:33:21,760
Speaker 1: you know, they justified it. Like if you go work

620
00:33:21,800 --> 00:33:23,520
Speaker 1: in a small town or you do an operation, then

621
00:33:23,560 --> 00:33:25,520
Speaker 1: the Parasi has to go back because something went wrong.

622
00:33:25,560 --> 00:33:27,600
Speaker 1: You can't call somebody else. You got to run it.

623
00:33:27,880 --> 00:33:30,240
Speaker 1: You got to handle it. And so what you learn

624
00:33:30,400 --> 00:33:33,960
Speaker 1: is so for example, the operation went late last night,

625
00:33:34,440 --> 00:33:37,320
Speaker 1: That's not a big deal to me because before that,

626
00:33:38,200 --> 00:33:41,320
Speaker 1: I wasn't trying to wear myself out with drama with somebody,

627
00:33:41,880 --> 00:33:44,080
Speaker 1: you know, wearing myself out with like looking at things

628
00:33:44,080 --> 00:33:47,480
Speaker 1: that were distracted. I went into sort of what I

629
00:33:47,560 --> 00:33:51,960
Speaker 1: call a zen mode to prevent distractions. You know, I

630
00:33:51,960 --> 00:33:54,240
Speaker 1: go to a zenmo before and it's not like you

631
00:33:54,240 --> 00:33:57,760
Speaker 1: can tell. And then I save that tension and focus

632
00:33:57,880 --> 00:34:02,239
Speaker 1: because I know my vigilance is acremental. It fades, and

633
00:34:02,280 --> 00:34:04,000
Speaker 1: then we get the patient set up and we do

634
00:34:04,080 --> 00:34:06,240
Speaker 1: all of that. I'm still just whatever, you know, and

635
00:34:06,320 --> 00:34:08,560
Speaker 1: until there's like a there's a physical cue for me,

636
00:34:09,080 --> 00:34:12,200
Speaker 1: and then it lifts. There's attention to focus, and then

637
00:34:12,840 --> 00:34:14,680
Speaker 1: there's the craft and then there's a release, and then

638
00:34:14,680 --> 00:34:17,080
Speaker 1: after that there's you know, there's a crash, and then

639
00:34:17,080 --> 00:34:18,680
Speaker 1: I make the decision I'm going to uber home or

640
00:34:18,760 --> 00:34:20,800
Speaker 1: drive home. You know, I know the freeway, so I

641
00:34:20,880 --> 00:34:23,600
Speaker 1: drove home. But that goes back to your original question,

642
00:34:23,719 --> 00:34:27,080
Speaker 1: is realize attention to focus for memory for anything is

643
00:34:27,120 --> 00:34:30,279
Speaker 1: a resource. Some things will grab your attention, some things

644
00:34:30,320 --> 00:34:33,640
Speaker 1: don't warrant your attention. It's it's it's that middle zone, right,

645
00:34:33,640 --> 00:34:35,920
Speaker 1: That's what we're trying to finesse at an individual level,

646
00:34:36,680 --> 00:34:38,040
Speaker 1: you know, and a collective level.

647
00:34:38,040 --> 00:34:40,840
Speaker 2: Well, I appreciate what you're saying because I remember reading

648
00:34:40,880 --> 00:34:43,480
Speaker 2: about it in a book by Daniel Leviton called The

649
00:34:43,640 --> 00:34:46,440
Speaker 2: Organized Mind, and he talked about this idea of how

650
00:34:46,480 --> 00:34:50,640
Speaker 2: when Warren Buffett is deciding where to invest, he takes

651
00:34:50,719 --> 00:34:54,040
Speaker 2: milk and cookies, rents an apartment in New York City,

652
00:34:54,400 --> 00:34:57,400
Speaker 2: and lives in that apartment for five days. So basically

653
00:34:57,400 --> 00:34:59,640
Speaker 2: he's doing very little when it comes to his daily

654
00:34:59,680 --> 00:35:02,840
Speaker 2: require ments of food. He's cleared out his space, so

655
00:35:02,840 --> 00:35:05,640
Speaker 2: he's in a new environment that's empty, and then he's

656
00:35:05,640 --> 00:35:08,160
Speaker 2: sitting there making decisions. And he talked about how this

657
00:35:08,360 --> 00:35:11,480
Speaker 2: was his way of removing decision fatigue. This idea that

658
00:35:11,760 --> 00:35:14,480
Speaker 2: when we're making lots of insignificant decisions in the morning

659
00:35:14,520 --> 00:35:17,000
Speaker 2: when we wake up, by the time it comes to

660
00:35:17,040 --> 00:35:18,839
Speaker 2: a big decision at the end of the day the

661
00:35:18,840 --> 00:35:21,600
Speaker 2: middle of the day, we have no energy left to

662
00:35:21,640 --> 00:35:24,040
Speaker 2: make it. So most of us are stressing out going.

663
00:35:24,200 --> 00:35:26,400
Speaker 2: What do I eat today? What do I wear today?

664
00:35:26,880 --> 00:35:29,279
Speaker 2: Which route do I take to work today? Oh my gosh,

665
00:35:29,320 --> 00:35:31,000
Speaker 2: what am I going to say to that person today? Now,

666
00:35:31,040 --> 00:35:33,440
Speaker 2: by the time you get into the office, you've already

667
00:35:33,480 --> 00:35:37,600
Speaker 2: made so many insignificant decisions that you're exhausted, and now

668
00:35:37,640 --> 00:35:40,120
Speaker 2: you can't dial it up when you actually need.

669
00:35:39,960 --> 00:35:44,279
Speaker 1: It because it's limited and is decremental over time. I

670
00:35:44,320 --> 00:35:47,040
Speaker 1: love that. What I would say is again, you have

671
00:35:47,080 --> 00:35:49,920
Speaker 1: to know yourself a little bit, like that's coming and

672
00:35:50,239 --> 00:35:52,520
Speaker 1: it could be I'm about to have a hot conversation

673
00:35:52,640 --> 00:35:55,480
Speaker 1: my lover, and this is not. This is a tense situation.

674
00:35:56,520 --> 00:35:58,479
Speaker 1: I don't want to walk in that with my mind

675
00:35:58,520 --> 00:36:01,399
Speaker 1: already in a fuss. I got a big case. It's

676
00:36:01,480 --> 00:36:03,600
Speaker 1: going late. There was an emergency before I'm gonna start

677
00:36:03,600 --> 00:36:06,279
Speaker 1: this at eleven o'clock. It needs to go tonight. That's

678
00:36:06,280 --> 00:36:08,719
Speaker 1: not when I'm trying to get into a fuss. I

679
00:36:08,719 --> 00:36:10,720
Speaker 1: don't know what the example will be for your viewers

680
00:36:10,760 --> 00:36:13,520
Speaker 1: and other people, but if everybody can walk away with like,

681
00:36:13,560 --> 00:36:16,520
Speaker 1: your attention and focus or wherever level and stage you're

682
00:36:16,560 --> 00:36:23,200
Speaker 1: at is precious, is limited. You want to control your environment.

683
00:36:23,320 --> 00:36:24,840
Speaker 1: You don't want to talk to certain people. Maybe you

684
00:36:24,840 --> 00:36:26,279
Speaker 1: do want to talk to certain people, Maybe you want

685
00:36:26,280 --> 00:36:27,960
Speaker 1: to listen to certain music, maybe you don't want to

686
00:36:27,960 --> 00:36:30,960
Speaker 1: listen to Those examples are all around US athletes walking

687
00:36:31,000 --> 00:36:33,359
Speaker 1: in with their bo's headphones on. They're doing the same thing.

688
00:36:33,680 --> 00:36:39,040
Speaker 1: But we can explain it with neuroscience that attention is decremental.

689
00:36:39,080 --> 00:36:43,719
Speaker 1: You cannot maintain one hundred sustained external focus. So in

690
00:36:43,760 --> 00:36:46,680
Speaker 1: those forty hour shifts, I never did a forty hour

691
00:36:46,719 --> 00:36:50,040
Speaker 1: operation and I just learned to work with my attention

692
00:36:50,080 --> 00:36:52,400
Speaker 1: and focus. That was the real skill that I learned.

693
00:36:52,760 --> 00:36:53,320
Speaker 1: And the buffet.

694
00:36:53,400 --> 00:36:53,520
Speaker 2: You know.

695
00:36:53,560 --> 00:36:56,239
Speaker 1: He's also changing his physical environment. Yeah, I do that too,

696
00:36:56,280 --> 00:36:58,200
Speaker 1: Like I'm going to London next next week, and I'm

697
00:36:58,239 --> 00:36:59,520
Speaker 1: just people are like, oh, you like to stay in

698
00:36:59,520 --> 00:37:02,040
Speaker 1: the same place, Like, no, I'm coming here to like

699
00:37:02,800 --> 00:37:05,520
Speaker 1: get lost, my phone's not working, look at this, where's this?

700
00:37:05,680 --> 00:37:09,520
Speaker 1: Like I need to change physical environments to have new

701
00:37:09,560 --> 00:37:12,239
Speaker 1: thoughts because I'm working on something in my mind. And

702
00:37:12,320 --> 00:37:14,799
Speaker 1: so I think part maybe part of what he does

703
00:37:14,960 --> 00:37:18,080
Speaker 1: is is not just to get rid of the fuss

704
00:37:18,120 --> 00:37:22,880
Speaker 1: and to avoid decision fatigue or decremental vigilance because of

705
00:37:23,000 --> 00:37:26,400
Speaker 1: decrimental vigilants. I prefer that one is broader. I'm not

706
00:37:26,440 --> 00:37:29,000
Speaker 1: telling you what to pay attention to. I'm not trying

707
00:37:29,000 --> 00:37:30,720
Speaker 1: to tell you, but you're about to make a decision.

708
00:37:31,080 --> 00:37:35,120
Speaker 1: Just realize this focus. This external they're catchy calling it

709
00:37:35,200 --> 00:37:39,080
Speaker 1: action network and action brain network. These fountains and continents

710
00:37:39,080 --> 00:37:41,239
Speaker 1: that rev up a little bit on the inside our

711
00:37:41,239 --> 00:37:45,000
Speaker 1: brain for outward attention versus dreaming where it's all imaginative,

712
00:37:45,560 --> 00:37:48,520
Speaker 1: Like you can't rev that up for sixteen hours. See,

713
00:37:48,520 --> 00:37:51,680
Speaker 1: there's a cadence to the day. You're setting yourself up

714
00:37:51,680 --> 00:37:55,680
Speaker 1: for success, individual success, fighting with somebody, dealing with a

715
00:37:55,760 --> 00:37:58,560
Speaker 1: kid driving you crazy, whatever it is that's yours. I

716
00:37:58,600 --> 00:38:00,960
Speaker 1: want people to walk away with like get it. You

717
00:38:00,960 --> 00:38:03,840
Speaker 1: know my day is My day is a dance.

718
00:38:04,120 --> 00:38:06,160
Speaker 2: Yeah. I really like that, man. I think that's such

719
00:38:06,160 --> 00:38:09,399
Speaker 2: great advice, and it resonates so strongly with me even

720
00:38:09,440 --> 00:38:11,719
Speaker 2: when I look at my days. So, for example, I

721
00:38:11,760 --> 00:38:14,680
Speaker 2: only do two interviews per day, so you're my first one.

722
00:38:14,840 --> 00:38:17,080
Speaker 2: I have another one in the afternoon. And I can

723
00:38:17,160 --> 00:38:20,080
Speaker 2: only do two interviews per day because for me, these

724
00:38:20,120 --> 00:38:23,680
Speaker 2: interviews require one hundred percent focus, and if you ask

725
00:38:23,719 --> 00:38:26,200
Speaker 2: me to do another one on top of that, I

726
00:38:26,320 --> 00:38:28,360
Speaker 2: just don't think I could be at one hundred percent,

727
00:38:28,640 --> 00:38:29,920
Speaker 2: but I know that for you, I can be at

728
00:38:29,960 --> 00:38:31,960
Speaker 2: one hundred percent. I then have a couple of meetings

729
00:38:31,960 --> 00:38:34,440
Speaker 2: in between which are requiring a different part of me

730
00:38:34,920 --> 00:38:38,560
Speaker 2: that don't require this exclusive focus. And you're so right.

731
00:38:38,600 --> 00:38:41,000
Speaker 2: I think we put so much pressure on ourselves that

732
00:38:41,080 --> 00:38:45,919
Speaker 2: we expect this level of focus in every conversation, every meeting,

733
00:38:45,960 --> 00:38:46,960
Speaker 2: throughout the whole day.

734
00:38:46,800 --> 00:38:49,160
Speaker 1: In every situation you get some bad news, you got

735
00:38:49,160 --> 00:38:50,719
Speaker 1: to know, I mean, not even gonna pull off too.

736
00:38:50,800 --> 00:38:52,480
Speaker 1: You got to crunch you might be a But that's

737
00:38:52,560 --> 00:38:57,080
Speaker 1: exactly that's again ecological validity in your environment. If I

738
00:38:57,120 --> 00:39:00,000
Speaker 1: can a car crash, I can't go into my zen

739
00:39:00,040 --> 00:39:03,040
Speaker 1: and pre surgery zen mode. I call my partner. I

740
00:39:03,080 --> 00:39:05,759
Speaker 1: got to know where I'm at, and so there is

741
00:39:05,840 --> 00:39:10,760
Speaker 1: no final guidance. It's just that your attention and focus,

742
00:39:11,360 --> 00:39:13,759
Speaker 1: you know what I mean. It's great because people think

743
00:39:13,840 --> 00:39:17,439
Speaker 1: like like he's a robot. Now, man, I've been through

744
00:39:17,480 --> 00:39:19,680
Speaker 1: a lot. I go through a lot, I feel a lot,

745
00:39:20,000 --> 00:39:23,480
Speaker 1: but I've just realized that to deliver as a surgeon,

746
00:39:24,040 --> 00:39:26,880
Speaker 1: here's the dance I do with my own mind to

747
00:39:27,440 --> 00:39:30,239
Speaker 1: bring it for that patient. Because that patient trusted me

748
00:39:30,640 --> 00:39:34,200
Speaker 1: on a journey that's sacred, and at that moment, that's

749
00:39:34,239 --> 00:39:34,840
Speaker 1: all I'm about.

750
00:39:34,960 --> 00:39:37,839
Speaker 2: Before we dive into the next moment, let's hear from

751
00:39:37,880 --> 00:39:41,840
Speaker 2: our sponsors and back to our episode. I want to

752
00:39:41,880 --> 00:39:43,759
Speaker 2: ask you by something you've mentioned before. You talked about

753
00:39:43,800 --> 00:39:48,200
Speaker 2: this idea of this emotional memory that almost comes immediately,

754
00:39:48,280 --> 00:39:52,000
Speaker 2: this idea that if and I often lead this meditation.

755
00:39:52,120 --> 00:39:54,160
Speaker 2: It's one of my favorite ones to lead when I'm

756
00:39:54,719 --> 00:39:58,520
Speaker 2: sharing it with my audience or community. And technically it's

757
00:39:58,560 --> 00:40:02,239
Speaker 2: called a loving kindness medita, and what it means is

758
00:40:02,760 --> 00:40:06,120
Speaker 2: I'll often ask people before we share love with the world,

759
00:40:06,680 --> 00:40:09,239
Speaker 2: I edited it slightly for people to really experience love

760
00:40:09,280 --> 00:40:11,680
Speaker 2: within themselves. So I'll ask people to close their eyes

761
00:40:11,719 --> 00:40:13,719
Speaker 2: and get into that zone. But I'll ask them to

762
00:40:13,760 --> 00:40:17,560
Speaker 2: go back to a memory where they felt the most joyful,

763
00:40:18,320 --> 00:40:21,960
Speaker 2: the most happy, and the most love. Who was there,

764
00:40:22,239 --> 00:40:25,279
Speaker 2: How did it smell, what could they see, what could

765
00:40:25,280 --> 00:40:28,520
Speaker 2: they hear, what could they taste? And immediately people will

766
00:40:28,560 --> 00:40:31,560
Speaker 2: have a vision. People think of their wedding day. People

767
00:40:31,640 --> 00:40:35,239
Speaker 2: have even thought of their dog passing away because it

768
00:40:35,280 --> 00:40:38,319
Speaker 2: was a really important transition point for them. It could

769
00:40:38,320 --> 00:40:42,239
Speaker 2: be the first time they celebrated their parent or bought

770
00:40:42,239 --> 00:40:44,640
Speaker 2: their parent a home or whatever it was. The ability

771
00:40:44,680 --> 00:40:47,440
Speaker 2: to take care of someone. Yeah, it's really beautiful. It's different,

772
00:40:48,080 --> 00:40:50,920
Speaker 2: but it's really interesting. What you said is for most

773
00:40:50,960 --> 00:40:54,640
Speaker 2: of us, it's actually the opposite that we do more of.

774
00:40:55,520 --> 00:41:00,000
Speaker 2: So it's more common for us to replay a negative

775
00:41:00,360 --> 00:41:04,120
Speaker 2: memory again and again and again and again. Then it

776
00:41:04,160 --> 00:41:06,240
Speaker 2: is for us to remember what we did last weekend,

777
00:41:06,320 --> 00:41:08,799
Speaker 2: even if it was positive. Why do we do that?

778
00:41:08,840 --> 00:41:12,320
Speaker 2: Why do we replay negative memories? Why is it so easy?

779
00:41:12,680 --> 00:41:13,759
Speaker 2: And what do we do about it?

780
00:41:14,360 --> 00:41:20,000
Speaker 1: Memory is imprinted with emotion for our protection, right like

781
00:41:20,719 --> 00:41:22,759
Speaker 1: you see a snake. You don't want to have to

782
00:41:22,800 --> 00:41:27,520
Speaker 1: think about it. It's a global thing. But roughly, as

783
00:41:27,560 --> 00:41:32,360
Speaker 1: the brain blossomed, it went from brainstem which people call reptilian,

784
00:41:32,560 --> 00:41:35,640
Speaker 1: to limbic structures that people call emotional or primal brain

785
00:41:36,360 --> 00:41:39,120
Speaker 1: and prefrontal cortex, which is which is the part of

786
00:41:39,160 --> 00:41:43,360
Speaker 1: the brain that pushed the brain forward. They have different regions,

787
00:41:43,400 --> 00:41:47,000
Speaker 1: but they're all interconnected and they're hubs, so it's not

788
00:41:47,040 --> 00:41:50,080
Speaker 1: a consistent texture throughout the brain. It's not like a liver,

789
00:41:50,680 --> 00:41:52,840
Speaker 1: it's not like flaw And whereas like the brain. The

790
00:41:52,880 --> 00:41:56,200
Speaker 1: brain is not one thing. It's a whole ecosystem, different structures,

791
00:41:56,239 --> 00:42:03,280
Speaker 1: different connections, different cells, and memory and emotion are intertwined

792
00:42:03,320 --> 00:42:06,640
Speaker 1: as part of the primal limbic structures. That's the way

793
00:42:07,280 --> 00:42:11,959
Speaker 1: my puppy can sniff and smell out when I'm trying

794
00:42:12,000 --> 00:42:14,480
Speaker 1: to trick her. I think about it in that way.

795
00:42:14,600 --> 00:42:16,759
Speaker 1: How ingenious that it is. Like if you're going on

796
00:42:16,880 --> 00:42:19,520
Speaker 1: a date night, You're like, hey, Frankie, Frankie, come come,

797
00:42:20,120 --> 00:42:23,000
Speaker 1: She's like looking at you. Right, that's instinct. So emotion

798
00:42:24,120 --> 00:42:26,719
Speaker 1: and memory and thoughts, that is the type of thinking

799
00:42:26,760 --> 00:42:28,960
Speaker 1: I don't think of emotions. Are not thinking that. If

800
00:42:28,960 --> 00:42:31,400
Speaker 1: you have a brain injury and you lose those primal centers,

801
00:42:31,920 --> 00:42:34,360
Speaker 1: you're paralyzed. You can't make a decision. You can actually

802
00:42:34,360 --> 00:42:36,640
Speaker 1: have an injury to your prefrontal cortex and still do

803
00:42:36,760 --> 00:42:39,480
Speaker 1: a lot with just your limbic structure. So emotion and

804
00:42:39,560 --> 00:42:42,439
Speaker 1: memory are important, right, you want that imprint. I saw

805
00:42:42,480 --> 00:42:45,800
Speaker 1: a snake. I jumped before I thought about it. Then

806
00:42:46,200 --> 00:42:50,399
Speaker 1: what also happens is we have emotional regulation. I saw

807
00:42:50,440 --> 00:42:52,520
Speaker 1: the snake, I jump, Then I look down the second

808
00:42:52,520 --> 00:42:54,920
Speaker 1: time and it's a plastic snake. I'm not worried about that,

809
00:42:55,960 --> 00:42:58,640
Speaker 1: or I'm afraid of heights and exposure therapy. I could

810
00:42:58,719 --> 00:43:03,920
Speaker 1: learn to tamp down my emotional responses with my prefrontal cortex,

811
00:43:03,920 --> 00:43:05,480
Speaker 1: which is the area of the brain that pushed the

812
00:43:05,520 --> 00:43:07,680
Speaker 1: forehead forward. Can think of it as two fists, and

813
00:43:07,719 --> 00:43:10,440
Speaker 1: there's different regions that do different things that are fascinating.

814
00:43:11,080 --> 00:43:14,760
Speaker 1: That's an important system, but that system is so hot

815
00:43:15,520 --> 00:43:18,879
Speaker 1: for your protection that it could go sideways on you too.

816
00:43:19,360 --> 00:43:23,719
Speaker 1: So what I think is important is that most of us,

817
00:43:23,719 --> 00:43:27,480
Speaker 1: when we have traumatic experiences, we don't develop PTSD. The

818
00:43:27,520 --> 00:43:31,520
Speaker 1: great majority of people from hurricanes and COVID and other things,

819
00:43:31,719 --> 00:43:35,200
Speaker 1: they don't develop PTSD. There is a protective mechanism on

820
00:43:35,280 --> 00:43:39,400
Speaker 1: how to deal with trauma, and that mechanism is learning

821
00:43:39,440 --> 00:43:43,320
Speaker 1: to uncouple the emotional imprint of the limbic structures in

822
00:43:43,360 --> 00:43:45,279
Speaker 1: the primal area of the brain, A mike diligious part

823
00:43:45,280 --> 00:43:50,239
Speaker 1: of it. That I was hurt and the assailant was

824
00:43:50,280 --> 00:43:54,680
Speaker 1: wearing a flannel jacket. Your immediate response is not to

825
00:43:54,719 --> 00:43:59,359
Speaker 1: go down that alley. That's protective. When a year later

826
00:43:59,480 --> 00:44:01,880
Speaker 1: you're not able to leave your home, I'm not judging you.

827
00:44:01,920 --> 00:44:04,040
Speaker 1: I'd be the same way. I'm just saying that's something

828
00:44:04,080 --> 00:44:06,720
Speaker 1: you want to work on. That emotional imprint is too strong.

829
00:44:07,040 --> 00:44:10,719
Speaker 1: Then you go to somebody who can take you safely

830
00:44:11,560 --> 00:44:15,120
Speaker 1: based on you feeling safe. Not every therapist's office is safe.

831
00:44:15,239 --> 00:44:18,560
Speaker 1: You feel safe, you bring up that memory, your body

832
00:44:18,600 --> 00:44:22,360
Speaker 1: has response, and you realize, you know what, it's okay.

833
00:44:22,520 --> 00:44:26,520
Speaker 1: You do that ten times and what happens. You take

834
00:44:26,640 --> 00:44:35,560
Speaker 1: the traumatic, negative, hurtful, scary emotion to that memory. You

835
00:44:35,600 --> 00:44:38,759
Speaker 1: don't lose that memory. Those patients will tell you, yeah,

836
00:44:38,800 --> 00:44:41,200
Speaker 1: now I can think of it, but it doesn't it

837
00:44:41,200 --> 00:44:42,719
Speaker 1: doesn't take my breath away. Like that.

838
00:44:42,800 --> 00:44:47,480
Speaker 2: You're extracting the story you have attached to that memory

839
00:44:47,520 --> 00:44:48,840
Speaker 2: from that memory.

840
00:44:48,680 --> 00:44:51,640
Speaker 1: Right, yeah, the negative imprint part of the story. Yes,

841
00:44:51,680 --> 00:44:54,359
Speaker 1: you're not. You're not trying to forget about it. That's

842
00:44:54,360 --> 00:44:57,480
Speaker 1: the most that's the threat. Like that's established. I don't

843
00:44:57,520 --> 00:44:59,879
Speaker 1: know how that works. I'm not a therapist, but that's

844
00:45:00,040 --> 00:45:03,319
Speaker 1: that's the point. There is the hippocampus, the hub from

845
00:45:03,440 --> 00:45:08,359
Speaker 1: brain wide memory and limbic structure. Something happens. They're meant

846
00:45:08,400 --> 00:45:10,640
Speaker 1: to stamp you. Don't go down that alley again, don't

847
00:45:10,680 --> 00:45:13,080
Speaker 1: get hit with that snag again. Right, Like that that's

848
00:45:13,120 --> 00:45:16,520
Speaker 1: the design. But what happens in our life is we're

849
00:45:16,560 --> 00:45:19,680
Speaker 1: dealing with a lot of the hurt from it, from lovers,

850
00:45:20,040 --> 00:45:23,759
Speaker 1: from experiences at work, and from assault that you know,

851
00:45:23,760 --> 00:45:25,680
Speaker 1: I'm working in a hospital. People still get hurt quite

852
00:45:25,680 --> 00:45:28,360
Speaker 1: a bit. And so when you're able to revisit a

853
00:45:28,440 --> 00:45:34,480
Speaker 1: memory in a controlled environment and not have that harmful experience,

854
00:45:35,120 --> 00:45:38,040
Speaker 1: you can dampen your emotional stamp onto that memory. You

855
00:45:38,080 --> 00:45:43,280
Speaker 1: don't forget the memory, you just uncouple, disassociate the emotional feelings,

856
00:45:43,360 --> 00:45:46,600
Speaker 1: the trauma, the fear, the physical reaction. And I don't

857
00:45:46,600 --> 00:45:48,399
Speaker 1: know if that's a negativity bias or not. I don't

858
00:45:48,400 --> 00:45:49,840
Speaker 1: have an answer for that. You ask, like, why do

859
00:45:49,880 --> 00:45:53,240
Speaker 1: we always remember more painful things? I mean, maybe they're protective.

860
00:45:53,280 --> 00:45:56,080
Speaker 1: It's more of evolutionary psychology. Maybe that helped us. There's

861
00:45:56,080 --> 00:45:57,759
Speaker 1: no way to experiment or like, I can't give you

862
00:45:57,840 --> 00:45:59,600
Speaker 1: that answer. But what I would say to you is,

863
00:46:00,080 --> 00:46:03,720
Speaker 1: what if we did the flip side. Maybe that's the neurobiology.

864
00:46:03,760 --> 00:46:06,520
Speaker 1: I'm not talking about neuroscience and the brain, the brain,

865
00:46:06,840 --> 00:46:12,319
Speaker 1: just just to be specific, what if by remembering a

866
00:46:12,400 --> 00:46:20,880
Speaker 1: positive memory, you are enhancing and accentuating the positive stamp

867
00:46:21,000 --> 00:46:25,400
Speaker 1: that belief. Yeah, yeah, and the and because it's interconnected

868
00:46:25,440 --> 00:46:29,960
Speaker 1: with hubs and continents and lobes. Not what if because

869
00:46:30,000 --> 00:46:33,080
Speaker 1: it's interconnected. Just stay with me. If you have an

870
00:46:33,080 --> 00:46:35,960
Speaker 1: emotional negative negative emotional stamp on a memory and it

871
00:46:36,080 --> 00:46:39,040
Speaker 1: reverberates through your body, I mean, just gooseb I mean,

872
00:46:39,080 --> 00:46:41,799
Speaker 1: you know it's it's like we can go over the connections,

873
00:46:42,040 --> 00:46:46,919
Speaker 1: but it's a physiologic response. What if you could have

874
00:46:47,880 --> 00:46:51,399
Speaker 1: by choice in that part of that prefrontal cortex area

875
00:46:51,480 --> 00:46:53,839
Speaker 1: at the bottom called orbital frontal cortex. Without getting into

876
00:46:53,800 --> 00:46:57,480
Speaker 1: the the details of it, but there's an internal referee

877
00:46:57,480 --> 00:47:00,320
Speaker 1: of where we steer our thoughts in our competition of

878
00:47:00,400 --> 00:47:03,839
Speaker 1: wants and thoughts. What if we spent time saying, bring

879
00:47:03,920 --> 00:47:07,719
Speaker 1: up positive old memories, stamp them harder, put them in

880
00:47:07,800 --> 00:47:11,520
Speaker 1: a collective environment that reinforces it, bring out the positive thinking,

881
00:47:11,560 --> 00:47:14,960
Speaker 1: bring out the positive vibes. It could be physiologically possible

882
00:47:15,000 --> 00:47:18,960
Speaker 1: to be the opposite of PTSD emotional stamping of the hippocampus.

883
00:47:19,200 --> 00:47:21,879
Speaker 1: Now there's no experiment for that, but I believe in that.

884
00:47:22,640 --> 00:47:24,799
Speaker 1: There's no reason not to believe in that. And if

885
00:47:24,840 --> 00:47:28,040
Speaker 1: you do that, just remember it's not happening in a

886
00:47:28,080 --> 00:47:31,640
Speaker 1: spot in your brain. It's reverberating through your brain and

887
00:47:31,680 --> 00:47:34,200
Speaker 1: your body. So then maybe you stop having some of

888
00:47:34,200 --> 00:47:39,800
Speaker 1: those somatic symptoms. Maybe maybe you feel that flow state

889
00:47:39,880 --> 00:47:42,320
Speaker 1: where your body is different and your brain is different.

890
00:47:42,400 --> 00:47:47,520
Speaker 1: So I believe that every nerve is two way. A touch,

891
00:47:47,640 --> 00:47:49,439
Speaker 1: it goes up, I want to move, it's the same nerve.

892
00:47:49,480 --> 00:47:55,040
Speaker 1: It's bidirectional. So why can't the relationship between our primal

893
00:47:55,120 --> 00:47:59,200
Speaker 1: Olympic circuits whatever migdala and our memory zone and all interconnect.

894
00:47:59,280 --> 00:48:01,439
Speaker 1: Why can't that be by directional? If we can stamp

895
00:48:01,480 --> 00:48:03,760
Speaker 1: a negative memories that we don't fall in that trap again,

896
00:48:04,200 --> 00:48:06,160
Speaker 1: What if we can stamp a positive memory and add

897
00:48:06,160 --> 00:48:07,280
Speaker 1: momentum in that direction.

898
00:48:08,440 --> 00:48:11,080
Speaker 2: This is a huge, huge thing I won't be able

899
00:48:11,080 --> 00:48:14,360
Speaker 2: to take away because what we've kind of stumbled on

900
00:48:14,440 --> 00:48:19,040
Speaker 2: here is so profound for people, because what we're saying is,

901
00:48:19,920 --> 00:48:23,080
Speaker 2: don't try to forget the bad memory. If you try

902
00:48:23,120 --> 00:48:24,960
Speaker 2: to forget the bad memory, it will never go away.

903
00:48:25,000 --> 00:48:27,120
Speaker 2: That memory is going to stay there because it's trying

904
00:48:27,160 --> 00:48:30,040
Speaker 2: to teach you something, it's trying to remind you something,

905
00:48:30,280 --> 00:48:32,400
Speaker 2: it's trying to make you aware of something. But if

906
00:48:32,440 --> 00:48:35,440
Speaker 2: you can change the story, if you can give it

907
00:48:35,480 --> 00:48:40,840
Speaker 2: a different meaning, if you can extract the pain, because

908
00:48:41,440 --> 00:48:45,200
Speaker 2: it just completely transforms. And I'm thinking about so many

909
00:48:45,200 --> 00:48:49,080
Speaker 2: moments in my life that you're so right that now

910
00:48:49,120 --> 00:48:51,560
Speaker 2: you can think of that memory. The memory is not gone,

911
00:48:52,480 --> 00:48:55,160
Speaker 2: but the way I think of that moment, I think

912
00:48:55,160 --> 00:48:57,040
Speaker 2: of it as being a powerful part of my story.

913
00:48:57,080 --> 00:48:59,880
Speaker 2: I think of it as being a beautiful breakthrough from

914
00:49:00,239 --> 00:49:03,399
Speaker 2: put that crisis to use absolutely and all of a sudden, Yeah,

915
00:49:03,440 --> 00:49:04,040
Speaker 2: that's really.

916
00:49:03,880 --> 00:49:05,920
Speaker 1: Because it's too hard to tell somebody to forget that.

917
00:49:05,920 --> 00:49:08,000
Speaker 1: They're like, uh, but I don't mean to forget that.

918
00:49:08,000 --> 00:49:10,919
Speaker 1: It's the only thing I'm thinking about. It's not fair

919
00:49:10,960 --> 00:49:11,279
Speaker 1: to them.

920
00:49:11,320 --> 00:49:13,399
Speaker 2: I think the problem is not just people telling us.

921
00:49:13,440 --> 00:49:15,000
Speaker 2: I think we want to forget it.

922
00:49:14,960 --> 00:49:16,680
Speaker 1: Well because of the language and the concepts that are

923
00:49:16,680 --> 00:49:20,320
Speaker 1: out there. But if we're told, no, you haven't failed

924
00:49:20,320 --> 00:49:23,160
Speaker 1: because you forgot to have that thought, you haven't failed.

925
00:49:23,719 --> 00:49:28,719
Speaker 1: You haven't failed in your intentional efforts because that thing continues.

926
00:49:28,000 --> 00:49:31,280
Speaker 3: To grip you just say, yeah, that's in your head,

927
00:49:31,880 --> 00:49:34,240
Speaker 3: that's in your life, that's your Nobody knows what happened

928
00:49:34,280 --> 00:49:36,600
Speaker 3: last night to me or you or that patient or

929
00:49:36,640 --> 00:49:41,840
Speaker 3: anybody so it cannot be the same advice for everyone,

930
00:49:42,160 --> 00:49:44,280
Speaker 3: but it can be the same concept.

931
00:49:44,480 --> 00:49:47,960
Speaker 1: We don't have infinitely wild dreams. Our dreams follow some patterns. Well,

932
00:49:47,960 --> 00:49:52,799
Speaker 1: our thoughts and emotions follow some patterns. Negative emotional imprinting

933
00:49:53,239 --> 00:49:57,120
Speaker 1: built in. Turn that out its head and it'll be incremental.

934
00:49:57,680 --> 00:49:59,640
Speaker 1: It's not gonna be a tomorrow. I see, I get it.

935
00:50:00,000 --> 00:50:01,560
Speaker 1: I can hold on to that memory. I just can't

936
00:50:01,560 --> 00:50:04,160
Speaker 1: feel bad about it. That's not going to happen in

937
00:50:04,200 --> 00:50:06,240
Speaker 1: a second. It's not going to happen in a moment.

938
00:50:06,400 --> 00:50:08,480
Speaker 1: There are epiphanies we can get into some things like that,

939
00:50:08,760 --> 00:50:11,680
Speaker 1: but that's the direction that you want to put your

940
00:50:12,080 --> 00:50:13,200
Speaker 1: attention and focus.

941
00:50:13,480 --> 00:50:15,640
Speaker 2: Yeah no, and it applies to even what you were

942
00:50:15,680 --> 00:50:18,080
Speaker 2: saying last time you were here. And for anyone who's listening,

943
00:50:18,120 --> 00:50:19,880
Speaker 2: we're not going to dive into this topic today, but

944
00:50:20,160 --> 00:50:22,520
Speaker 2: you can go back and listen to Doctor Rowl John

945
00:50:22,560 --> 00:50:26,200
Speaker 2: Deelle's first episode on the podcast. You're talking about this

946
00:50:26,320 --> 00:50:28,920
Speaker 2: powerful state for when we're kind of await, kind of

947
00:50:28,920 --> 00:50:31,040
Speaker 2: asleep in the morning. You're talking about the need to

948
00:50:31,120 --> 00:50:33,600
Speaker 2: journal at that time to sleep. I've been practicing it

949
00:50:33,640 --> 00:50:35,879
Speaker 2: ever since we spoke. It's been one of my favorite things.

950
00:50:35,920 --> 00:50:38,320
Speaker 2: I've talked about it with people, shared it with people,

951
00:50:39,160 --> 00:50:41,880
Speaker 2: and it's amazing because I was saying to I was

952
00:50:41,880 --> 00:50:44,520
Speaker 2: talking to my personal trainer today where when we're working out,

953
00:50:45,160 --> 00:50:47,160
Speaker 2: and I was explaining to him that if you said

954
00:50:47,280 --> 00:50:50,000
Speaker 2: in that time, I'm tired, like that's the first thing

955
00:50:50,040 --> 00:50:52,600
Speaker 2: you think of. Now for the rest of the day,

956
00:50:52,640 --> 00:50:56,280
Speaker 2: you're just looking for proof and confirmation that you're tired.

957
00:50:56,719 --> 00:50:58,280
Speaker 2: So you look in the mirror and you see bags

958
00:50:58,320 --> 00:51:00,000
Speaker 2: under your eyes and go, yeah, I knew I was tired.

959
00:51:00,640 --> 00:51:02,080
Speaker 2: Then you get to the day and you're late for

960
00:51:02,120 --> 00:51:04,040
Speaker 2: your meing and everything's feeling a bit slow, and you're like,

961
00:51:04,280 --> 00:51:05,920
Speaker 2: I knew I was tired. And now what you're doing

962
00:51:06,000 --> 00:51:09,080
Speaker 2: is you're just confirming that belief and it's not setting

963
00:51:09,160 --> 00:51:11,840
Speaker 2: you up. Rather than saying, I'm going to look for

964
00:51:11,960 --> 00:51:14,239
Speaker 2: energy today, I'm going to find rest today, I'm going

965
00:51:14,280 --> 00:51:17,399
Speaker 2: to create a space for curiosity today, whatever it may be,

966
00:51:17,719 --> 00:51:19,759
Speaker 2: you're now going to look for that. And I think

967
00:51:19,760 --> 00:51:22,320
Speaker 2: that at the very base level, is how we wire

968
00:51:22,880 --> 00:51:25,680
Speaker 2: what we look for and what our repeated thoughts are

969
00:51:25,680 --> 00:51:28,080
Speaker 2: throughout the day. And so I really love that piece

970
00:51:28,080 --> 00:51:29,879
Speaker 2: of advice. I'd love to encourage people to go back

971
00:51:29,880 --> 00:51:31,839
Speaker 2: to it. But going back to the conversation we're having

972
00:51:31,880 --> 00:51:35,160
Speaker 2: right now, one thing that comes to mind is a

973
00:51:35,160 --> 00:51:38,560
Speaker 2: lot of people today are scared of going to therapy

974
00:51:39,440 --> 00:51:42,920
Speaker 2: because they don't feel even if they don't say this consciously,

975
00:51:43,680 --> 00:51:47,880
Speaker 2: they don't feel they want to bring something up because

976
00:51:47,880 --> 00:51:51,880
Speaker 2: it's so painful. I interviewed someone a couple of months ago,

977
00:51:52,680 --> 00:51:55,719
Speaker 2: and all I could think of the whole time was

978
00:51:55,760 --> 00:51:59,920
Speaker 2: that they just couldn't go there. And they haven't gone

979
00:52:00,239 --> 00:52:02,759
Speaker 2: not even in their public life on a podcast. They

980
00:52:02,800 --> 00:52:05,600
Speaker 2: haven't gone there in their private life because they don't

981
00:52:05,640 --> 00:52:08,280
Speaker 2: want to go there. Is it true that the brain

982
00:52:08,360 --> 00:52:11,160
Speaker 2: will let you go there when you're ready or why

983
00:52:11,239 --> 00:52:14,680
Speaker 2: is it that they're suppressing this negative experience.

984
00:52:14,680 --> 00:52:18,280
Speaker 1: I don't have an answer for that. And you know, again,

985
00:52:18,360 --> 00:52:22,560
Speaker 1: the concept of the brain as a as a single entity,

986
00:52:22,600 --> 00:52:26,200
Speaker 1: I would say, you know, like our brain, mind and behavior.

987
00:52:27,760 --> 00:52:30,640
Speaker 1: So I try to think of it as the brain

988
00:52:30,719 --> 00:52:33,759
Speaker 1: creates a mind. It can create many minds, the dreaming mind,

989
00:52:33,800 --> 00:52:36,360
Speaker 1: the waking mind. During the day, we have many minds.

990
00:52:36,520 --> 00:52:39,560
Speaker 1: Sometimes you're frustrated, sometimes you're tired, and then there's behavior

991
00:52:40,239 --> 00:52:43,120
Speaker 1: his mind. That person's mind might be saying this is

992
00:52:43,120 --> 00:52:45,920
Speaker 1: something I need to address. It's eating me up. But

993
00:52:46,000 --> 00:52:49,400
Speaker 1: the behavior doesn't translate to going to take those steps.

994
00:52:49,800 --> 00:52:51,520
Speaker 1: And that's the thing I'm working on right now is

995
00:52:51,960 --> 00:52:55,480
Speaker 1: the difference between mind and behavior, which comes down to

996
00:52:55,560 --> 00:52:59,719
Speaker 1: sort of the internal referee. Again, like the brain is

997
00:52:59,760 --> 00:53:01,600
Speaker 1: created the mind. The mind can actually go back and

998
00:53:01,680 --> 00:53:06,279
Speaker 1: change the brain. So certain certain ways of thought can

999
00:53:06,360 --> 00:53:10,239
Speaker 1: create grooves where electricity is more likely to flow, like

1000
00:53:10,560 --> 00:53:13,520
Speaker 1: it's kind of steering the aurora borealis of neuronal activity

1001
00:53:13,520 --> 00:53:18,120
Speaker 1: in your brain. And then but there's behavior. Behavior is fascinating.

1002
00:53:18,480 --> 00:53:20,960
Speaker 1: You can think I need to do this, and you don't, like,

1003
00:53:21,040 --> 00:53:23,600
Speaker 1: where's why does that not happen? Aren't you in charge

1004
00:53:23,680 --> 00:53:26,640
Speaker 1: of yourself? You're not. You have a competition of wants

1005
00:53:26,880 --> 00:53:29,880
Speaker 1: and behavior. You know what the right thing to do is?

1006
00:53:29,920 --> 00:53:32,320
Speaker 1: This person might say I need to tackle this. I

1007
00:53:32,320 --> 00:53:35,280
Speaker 1: would be better by tackling this. So mind and behavior

1008
00:53:35,320 --> 00:53:38,320
Speaker 1: is uncoupled. We don't always act on what we should

1009
00:53:38,520 --> 00:53:41,000
Speaker 1: do or have even decided to do. But then the

1010
00:53:41,480 --> 00:53:44,640
Speaker 1: original thing you ask suppression. But one of the coping

1011
00:53:44,680 --> 00:53:49,160
Speaker 1: mechanisms is a suppressing looking at something difficult, and I

1012
00:53:49,200 --> 00:53:51,040
Speaker 1: see that when I was I did a lot of

1013
00:53:51,080 --> 00:53:54,799
Speaker 1: pediatric neurosurgery. Like you got to give the parents time

1014
00:53:54,840 --> 00:53:57,480
Speaker 1: to deal with the sick child. So yeah, they're going

1015
00:53:57,560 --> 00:53:59,520
Speaker 1: to hold it at bay, they're going to suppress it.

1016
00:53:59,600 --> 00:54:04,920
Speaker 1: That does mean that's a pathologic or bad therapeutic technique.

1017
00:54:05,520 --> 00:54:10,359
Speaker 1: It's ecological validity, right, Like in that situation, we ain't

1018
00:54:10,440 --> 00:54:13,120
Speaker 1: judging parents who got sick kids, right because that's a

1019
00:54:13,160 --> 00:54:16,160
Speaker 1: stress we can't imagine. So for this person, I don't

1020
00:54:16,160 --> 00:54:18,600
Speaker 1: know what's going on in the other parts of the life,

1021
00:54:19,200 --> 00:54:24,640
Speaker 1: but suppression of something is uh is a basic but

1022
00:54:24,880 --> 00:54:27,040
Speaker 1: very effective and.

1023
00:54:27,000 --> 00:54:28,680
Speaker 2: So it shouldn't be forced out of people, is what

1024
00:54:28,719 --> 00:54:29,160
Speaker 2: I'm saying.

1025
00:54:29,280 --> 00:54:30,360
Speaker 1: I don't know what's going on with it.

1026
00:54:30,480 --> 00:54:32,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, No, I think that's a really important

1027
00:54:32,160 --> 00:54:34,839
Speaker 2: note because I think a lot of us, especially when

1028
00:54:34,880 --> 00:54:37,239
Speaker 2: you start doing some of this work, a lot of

1029
00:54:37,280 --> 00:54:39,200
Speaker 2: people want their family member to be like you need

1030
00:54:39,200 --> 00:54:41,560
Speaker 2: to go therapy, like you need to go look at

1031
00:54:41,560 --> 00:54:44,920
Speaker 2: your past. And I feel like it's well intentioned. Yeah,

1032
00:54:44,960 --> 00:54:48,280
Speaker 2: but you've got to be very careful because that person

1033
00:54:48,360 --> 00:54:50,640
Speaker 2: may actually need to wait a certain amount of time

1034
00:54:50,680 --> 00:54:51,719
Speaker 2: before they feel.

1035
00:54:51,480 --> 00:54:54,680
Speaker 1: Ready and to fully engage and to dilect I love

1036
00:54:54,719 --> 00:54:56,919
Speaker 1: the attention and focus thing, because you're not. You can't

1037
00:54:56,920 --> 00:54:58,720
Speaker 1: just show up. You got to put attention and focus

1038
00:54:58,760 --> 00:54:59,000
Speaker 1: to that.

1039
00:54:59,160 --> 00:55:01,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly. So even if you force them to go

1040
00:55:01,200 --> 00:55:03,759
Speaker 2: but they weren't ready to engage, it's going to be

1041
00:55:03,800 --> 00:55:05,880
Speaker 2: even worse and they may walk out thinking that doesn't

1042
00:55:05,920 --> 00:55:08,520
Speaker 2: work for them or it was a useless waste of time.

1043
00:55:08,640 --> 00:55:12,400
Speaker 1: Right. And I think as a physician, as a surgeon,

1044
00:55:12,440 --> 00:55:15,279
Speaker 1: I see myself as a cancer surgeon. Yes, brain, but

1045
00:55:15,920 --> 00:55:19,279
Speaker 1: cancer surgeon. I never say you need this or you

1046
00:55:19,400 --> 00:55:23,960
Speaker 1: need that. You can choose to not have this life

1047
00:55:24,000 --> 00:55:27,400
Speaker 1: saving measure. You can choose to let this thing, you know,

1048
00:55:27,520 --> 00:55:31,160
Speaker 1: cause you pain. I'm just talking to you about leaving

1049
00:55:31,200 --> 00:55:36,000
Speaker 1: you with an understanding, an informed so you can make

1050
00:55:36,040 --> 00:55:39,120
Speaker 1: My role is to inform you about the things that

1051
00:55:39,160 --> 00:55:42,360
Speaker 1: are out there in this world, this medicine, that medicine,

1052
00:55:42,520 --> 00:55:46,759
Speaker 1: this surgery, that surgery, and then if you choose me

1053
00:55:46,960 --> 00:55:50,399
Speaker 1: to be your surgeon, I will give you everything. Then

1054
00:55:50,719 --> 00:55:53,560
Speaker 1: I feel like that's how it should be for psychological

1055
00:55:54,719 --> 00:56:00,799
Speaker 1: challenges as well, Like, hey, loved one, you know, I

1056
00:56:00,880 --> 00:56:04,000
Speaker 1: know you. I could see you're not doing well. These

1057
00:56:04,040 --> 00:56:06,400
Speaker 1: are kind of the things that are out there. You know,

1058
00:56:06,440 --> 00:56:10,439
Speaker 1: there's this, there's that, and there is no one path,

1059
00:56:10,480 --> 00:56:13,759
Speaker 1: and depression gives us that answer. For some people, it's

1060
00:56:13,800 --> 00:56:16,480
Speaker 1: the talking cure. For some people, it's the talking cure

1061
00:56:16,520 --> 00:56:20,240
Speaker 1: plus a medicine that interferes with serotonin at the neuronal level.

1062
00:56:21,440 --> 00:56:24,920
Speaker 1: For other people, they're so close to self harm that

1063
00:56:25,000 --> 00:56:28,200
Speaker 1: it's a ketamine's sniff in a hospital that breaks their

1064
00:56:28,239 --> 00:56:31,080
Speaker 1: suicidal ideation within twelve hours, Like, wow, how does that work?

1065
00:56:31,120 --> 00:56:35,240
Speaker 1: I'm fascinated with that. For other people it's I choose

1066
00:56:35,280 --> 00:56:38,359
Speaker 1: to have stickers placed on my scalp and get shock

1067
00:56:38,440 --> 00:56:41,200
Speaker 1: therapy at elite centers. Like so, if you look at depression,

1068
00:56:41,920 --> 00:56:44,880
Speaker 1: it's just so wide, and people say, well, this treatment

1069
00:56:44,920 --> 00:56:48,080
Speaker 1: didn't work. But yeah, because all of those treatments only

1070
00:56:48,080 --> 00:56:49,879
Speaker 1: work in some of those people. But please keep going

1071
00:56:49,920 --> 00:56:52,680
Speaker 1: because there might be something that works for you. That's

1072
00:56:52,719 --> 00:56:58,240
Speaker 1: what I think. Where whereas therapy it's just it's too encapsulated.

1073
00:56:58,360 --> 00:57:01,480
Speaker 1: It may not have the term is encapsulated. I love

1074
00:57:01,520 --> 00:57:03,920
Speaker 1: the field. I've been reading about it, like cognitive reappraisal

1075
00:57:04,360 --> 00:57:06,840
Speaker 1: and how to stop bodily urges. Like, I love the field,

1076
00:57:07,120 --> 00:57:13,280
Speaker 1: but the deliveries sometimes not nuanced enough, nurturing enough inviting

1077
00:57:13,400 --> 00:57:16,000
Speaker 1: enough for the other person. So I would say, think

1078
00:57:16,040 --> 00:57:18,840
Speaker 1: about how you know people engage cancer page like, you

1079
00:57:18,840 --> 00:57:20,840
Speaker 1: don't have to do anything, but do you know that

1080
00:57:20,920 --> 00:57:23,560
Speaker 1: these things exist and may benefit you, may harm you?

1081
00:57:24,600 --> 00:57:27,920
Speaker 1: Depression the wide range. I think that is where I

1082
00:57:27,960 --> 00:57:31,480
Speaker 1: would like to see the term therapy go. So it's

1083
00:57:31,520 --> 00:57:35,000
Speaker 1: not a you ain't doing well, I got it all

1084
00:57:35,040 --> 00:57:38,200
Speaker 1: figured out. I'm judging you with this term. It's more

1085
00:57:38,200 --> 00:57:42,000
Speaker 1: of an invitation, an exploration that has benefited me. You

1086
00:57:42,040 --> 00:57:43,040
Speaker 1: may want to consider it.

1087
00:57:43,240 --> 00:57:45,400
Speaker 2: I remember growing up, I used to always hear the

1088
00:57:45,480 --> 00:57:49,240
Speaker 2: phrase we're only using five percent of the brain's potential.

1089
00:57:49,720 --> 00:57:50,640
Speaker 2: How true is that?

1090
00:57:50,920 --> 00:57:54,880
Speaker 1: Well, over here it was twenty That's the urban legend.

1091
00:57:55,360 --> 00:57:57,959
Speaker 1: And I think it's exciting because you think, like, hey,

1092
00:57:58,280 --> 00:57:59,880
Speaker 1: if I did this, I think there was a movie

1093
00:58:00,040 --> 00:58:03,440
Speaker 1: Radley Cooper. Yeah, like, okay, I'm I'm just waiting on.

1094
00:58:03,840 --> 00:58:05,440
Speaker 1: I'm just gonna be at the boss of all of

1095
00:58:05,480 --> 00:58:07,520
Speaker 1: this ones. I get the rest of this eighty this

1096
00:58:07,600 --> 00:58:10,640
Speaker 1: eighty percent kicking in. It's it's a myth, and ILL

1097
00:58:10,640 --> 00:58:13,280
Speaker 1: explain to you why a couple of clear reasons you've

1098
00:58:13,320 --> 00:58:17,960
Speaker 1: earned it. I know, but ostillly if people inspired because

1099
00:58:17,960 --> 00:58:20,680
Speaker 1: it's such an energy hog. I don't want to run

1100
00:58:20,840 --> 00:58:24,920
Speaker 1: all the brain matter to tie my shoelaces. So habits

1101
00:58:24,920 --> 00:58:29,160
Speaker 1: will manage with just in that ecosystem of jellyfish, just

1102
00:58:29,200 --> 00:58:32,640
Speaker 1: the lightest shiver of electricity will shiver through some neurons

1103
00:58:32,800 --> 00:58:35,400
Speaker 1: to tie my shoelaces. We want to be efficient, right,

1104
00:58:36,000 --> 00:58:39,560
Speaker 1: so we only use twenty percent of our brain at

1105
00:58:39,560 --> 00:58:41,960
Speaker 1: a time to do most things. But there is no

1106
00:58:42,080 --> 00:58:45,160
Speaker 1: hidden corner, and we know that categorically now with brain scans,

1107
00:58:45,400 --> 00:58:47,680
Speaker 1: the whole region lights up. It just lights up in

1108
00:58:47,680 --> 00:58:51,040
Speaker 1: different ways for different tasks. I think what's inspiring for

1109
00:58:51,120 --> 00:58:54,840
Speaker 1: people is to know that when you try to learn

1110
00:58:54,920 --> 00:58:57,440
Speaker 1: something new, when you try to activate something new, it's

1111
00:58:57,480 --> 00:59:00,320
Speaker 1: gonna feel like work. Like let's not it's not going

1112
00:59:00,400 --> 00:59:04,360
Speaker 1: to be easy. But once you get over that, it's

1113
00:59:04,360 --> 00:59:07,320
Speaker 1: called activation energy. Once you get over that, once you

1114
00:59:07,360 --> 00:59:09,800
Speaker 1: put in the original work. The best way I can

1115
00:59:09,840 --> 00:59:11,560
Speaker 1: describe it, you're going down a mountain. You're falling the

1116
00:59:11,560 --> 00:59:15,520
Speaker 1: same sleep, the slopes, the ski the grooves on the

1117
00:59:15,520 --> 00:59:18,240
Speaker 1: mountain that all the skiers are on. It's going to

1118
00:59:18,320 --> 00:59:22,080
Speaker 1: take work to create another groove of thought, of feeling,

1119
00:59:22,520 --> 00:59:26,480
Speaker 1: of emotion. But after a while it doesn't require the

1120
00:59:26,480 --> 00:59:30,680
Speaker 1: same amount of effort, so that again there's decremental vigilance

1121
00:59:30,720 --> 00:59:33,640
Speaker 1: and surgery, but there's also like, hey, this thing you're

1122
00:59:33,680 --> 00:59:36,680
Speaker 1: trying to change, put a couple months into it, lockdown

1123
00:59:36,680 --> 00:59:40,320
Speaker 1: for a couple months, and then the years afterwards, it'll

1124
00:59:40,320 --> 00:59:42,240
Speaker 1: be in your pocket. It'll be easier. It's not going

1125
00:59:42,280 --> 00:59:43,160
Speaker 1: to be uphill forever.

1126
00:59:43,440 --> 00:59:47,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, thanks for busting the myth. The last thing I

1127
00:59:47,400 --> 00:59:50,880
Speaker 2: wanted to talk to you about, Roll was this. You know,

1128
00:59:51,600 --> 00:59:54,840
Speaker 2: so many young people today are getting cancer. I just

1129
00:59:54,920 --> 00:59:59,280
Speaker 2: had my friend forty two, just you know, out of surgery.

1130
00:59:59,360 --> 01:00:02,080
Speaker 2: Thankfully's to be okay. I think I lost a friend

1131
01:00:02,120 --> 01:00:05,400
Speaker 2: a few years ago to carlon cancer. So many younger

1132
01:00:05,400 --> 01:00:07,240
Speaker 2: people are getting cancer. We keep hearing it used to

1133
01:00:07,320 --> 01:00:10,080
Speaker 2: be one in four, then one in three. Maybe it's

1134
01:00:10,080 --> 01:00:12,800
Speaker 2: going to get to one in two people have cancer.

1135
01:00:13,640 --> 01:00:14,200
Speaker 2: What do we do?

1136
01:00:15,080 --> 01:00:19,600
Speaker 1: That's a big question. So that when you look at

1137
01:00:19,360 --> 01:00:23,720
Speaker 1: last last thirty forty years, there have been some positive shifts.

1138
01:00:23,720 --> 01:00:28,080
Speaker 1: Cancer treatments are leading to significantly improved lifespan and quality

1139
01:00:28,080 --> 01:00:30,960
Speaker 1: of life for cancer patients. Lung cancer rates here are

1140
01:00:30,960 --> 01:00:33,120
Speaker 1: going down. They're starting to pop up in other countries

1141
01:00:33,160 --> 01:00:37,960
Speaker 1: where there's pollution, So there are shifts in cancer. The

1142
01:00:38,040 --> 01:00:44,760
Speaker 1: concerning shift is certain cancers, breast and coal in particular,

1143
01:00:45,680 --> 01:00:51,160
Speaker 1: are if on average they popped up at a certain age,

1144
01:00:51,600 --> 01:00:54,680
Speaker 1: that curve. You know, there's some early outliers and some

1145
01:00:54,760 --> 01:00:57,200
Speaker 1: late outliers, but the bulk of the curve that drives

1146
01:00:57,800 --> 01:01:00,400
Speaker 1: you know, understanding of how to manage that at a

1147
01:01:00,480 --> 01:01:03,960
Speaker 1: global and at a national level, that curve is shifting

1148
01:01:04,040 --> 01:01:08,760
Speaker 1: earlier and in particular for women. And that's you know,

1149
01:01:09,120 --> 01:01:12,120
Speaker 1: Chadwick Boseman got caught people's eyes, you know, with the

1150
01:01:12,160 --> 01:01:15,200
Speaker 1: Black Panther. That's somebody that was very young. You started

1151
01:01:15,200 --> 01:01:17,480
Speaker 1: to see people with breast cancer at much younger age.

1152
01:01:17,840 --> 01:01:21,320
Speaker 1: That doesn't mean they're all passing away, but two questions

1153
01:01:21,600 --> 01:01:24,880
Speaker 1: quickly arise, what's going on that's causing it? And then

1154
01:01:24,880 --> 01:01:27,720
Speaker 1: what do we do differently to catch it? Right? While

1155
01:01:27,720 --> 01:01:29,800
Speaker 1: waiting to figure out why it's happening? Do we need

1156
01:01:29,840 --> 01:01:33,040
Speaker 1: to change how we live, how we screen and that

1157
01:01:33,080 --> 01:01:36,160
Speaker 1: sort of thing? What's causing it? I don't know. I

1158
01:01:36,240 --> 01:01:37,800
Speaker 1: used to get asked this thing, like are there more

1159
01:01:37,840 --> 01:01:40,320
Speaker 1: brain tumors? Because everybody's on a cell phone now it's

1160
01:01:40,320 --> 01:01:43,160
Speaker 1: not on our ear, but the global rates of brain

1161
01:01:43,200 --> 01:01:47,240
Speaker 1: tumors didn't change the earlier cancers. People are saying, well,

1162
01:01:47,280 --> 01:01:50,360
Speaker 1: is it microplastics, is it something else? Is it that?

1163
01:01:50,440 --> 01:01:53,000
Speaker 1: I don't know. It's a hard thing to design an

1164
01:01:53,080 --> 01:01:55,960
Speaker 1: experiment for. You're not going to give a thousand people

1165
01:01:56,000 --> 01:02:00,520
Speaker 1: microplastics and a thousand people pretend microplastics as a and

1166
01:02:00,960 --> 01:02:03,080
Speaker 1: so you have to look at the data that's available

1167
01:02:03,080 --> 01:02:07,240
Speaker 1: to you. But there is a concern that our food,

1168
01:02:07,520 --> 01:02:15,400
Speaker 1: our air, our water is not good enough for people

1169
01:02:15,960 --> 01:02:20,439
Speaker 1: should receive more attention we deserve as a human right,

1170
01:02:20,880 --> 01:02:24,959
Speaker 1: better food, water, the link to cancer. I can't say

1171
01:02:24,960 --> 01:02:29,520
Speaker 1: that that's categorically there. What's very important is for those

1172
01:02:29,560 --> 01:02:31,880
Speaker 1: people out there living with that fear now, like cancers

1173
01:02:31,920 --> 01:02:35,760
Speaker 1: coming earlier, why not give them something that's good for

1174
01:02:35,840 --> 01:02:39,520
Speaker 1: them that may also be protective for these cancers. I

1175
01:02:39,520 --> 01:02:41,840
Speaker 1: think a lot of people on the flip side, like

1176
01:02:41,880 --> 01:02:43,840
Speaker 1: there was this thing like you don't need an experiment

1177
01:02:43,880 --> 01:02:45,880
Speaker 1: to say that if you don't open a parachute, you're

1178
01:02:45,880 --> 01:02:49,720
Speaker 1: not going to do well. We don't need tons of

1179
01:02:49,800 --> 01:02:54,680
Speaker 1: proof to say we should improve health at the systemic right.

1180
01:02:54,680 --> 01:02:56,600
Speaker 1: We just talked about ten years of a certain diet,

1181
01:02:56,880 --> 01:02:58,920
Speaker 1: what if ten years of bad water, bad food, and

1182
01:02:58,960 --> 01:03:03,000
Speaker 1: bad process is is the culprit, even though I can't

1183
01:03:03,040 --> 01:03:06,160
Speaker 1: prove it, that's the right thing to do, and I

1184
01:03:06,200 --> 01:03:09,480
Speaker 1: think it gives people a sense of power. Okay. On

1185
01:03:09,520 --> 01:03:14,040
Speaker 1: the flip side, screening needs to move early. If screening

1186
01:03:14,040 --> 01:03:16,120
Speaker 1: for colon cancer in the past is forty five fifty,

1187
01:03:16,320 --> 01:03:19,560
Speaker 1: we need to start screening people earlier. It's easy imaging.

1188
01:03:19,600 --> 01:03:22,400
Speaker 1: You don't have to have an invasive procedure. And here

1189
01:03:22,560 --> 01:03:25,919
Speaker 1: we need more reduction of what I call barriers to care.

1190
01:03:26,000 --> 01:03:29,040
Speaker 1: Right it's in our field. There are medicines in screening

1191
01:03:29,080 --> 01:03:31,120
Speaker 1: and treatment that people don't even know about. People don't

1192
01:03:31,160 --> 01:03:33,520
Speaker 1: even get to is a language barrier. Maybe somebody can't

1193
01:03:33,520 --> 01:03:36,560
Speaker 1: afford the bus. So as I work in my laboratory

1194
01:03:36,560 --> 01:03:38,160
Speaker 1: to make new medicine, we got to make sure the

1195
01:03:38,160 --> 01:03:41,480
Speaker 1: medicine and the care we got gets to everybody. So

1196
01:03:41,600 --> 01:03:46,080
Speaker 1: that's reduction the barriers to care education. You know, what

1197
01:03:46,080 --> 01:03:48,640
Speaker 1: we're doing on television, what we're doing on messaging is

1198
01:03:48,680 --> 01:03:52,240
Speaker 1: to start the screening a little bit earlier. And that's

1199
01:03:52,280 --> 01:03:57,919
Speaker 1: important because both breston and colon they grow in stages one, two, three, four,

1200
01:03:58,720 --> 01:04:02,080
Speaker 1: and wherever you're at if you catch it one stage earlier,

1201
01:04:02,360 --> 01:04:06,240
Speaker 1: that's less medicine, maybe no medicine, less surgery, maybe no surgery.

1202
01:04:06,360 --> 01:04:08,560
Speaker 1: So it doesn't matter where you catch it. You want

1203
01:04:08,600 --> 01:04:10,720
Speaker 1: that feeling of I'm glad I got screened and I

1204
01:04:10,760 --> 01:04:13,240
Speaker 1: caught it earlier. So those are my two suggestions.

1205
01:04:13,360 --> 01:04:15,360
Speaker 2: It's such a fascinating time we're living in because I

1206
01:04:15,400 --> 01:04:17,720
Speaker 2: think there's more data available than ever, but a lot

1207
01:04:17,760 --> 01:04:20,000
Speaker 2: of us are scared of seeing that data as well,

1208
01:04:20,640 --> 01:04:23,920
Speaker 2: and there's a fear of not wanting something but finding

1209
01:04:23,920 --> 01:04:26,760
Speaker 2: out too early as well. Let's you know, it is

1210
01:04:27,120 --> 01:04:29,200
Speaker 2: a lot of scared. And the biggest thing that I

1211
01:04:29,240 --> 01:04:32,120
Speaker 2: think you raised today, which I'm glad that you're focused

1212
01:04:32,160 --> 01:04:36,040
Speaker 2: on figuring it out, is that mind behavior disconnect, because

1213
01:04:36,040 --> 01:04:37,880
Speaker 2: I think we all know what we have to do.

1214
01:04:37,920 --> 01:04:41,120
Speaker 2: Everyone knows what they need to change, right me, and

1215
01:04:41,160 --> 01:04:43,960
Speaker 2: you don't have to tell them. We're all aware, but

1216
01:04:44,040 --> 01:04:45,960
Speaker 2: we just can't seem to do it. If you had

1217
01:04:46,000 --> 01:04:49,040
Speaker 2: to give anyone any final words on that, for anyone

1218
01:04:49,080 --> 01:04:51,400
Speaker 2: who's been listening today going I want to change my diet,

1219
01:04:51,640 --> 01:04:53,960
Speaker 2: for anyone who's listening today saying to us, you know,

1220
01:04:53,960 --> 01:04:55,920
Speaker 2: I want to work out more, For anyone listening to

1221
01:04:56,040 --> 01:04:58,600
Speaker 2: us today and saying I want to challenge myself more,

1222
01:04:59,040 --> 01:05:02,160
Speaker 2: but I feel on MOTI, I feel tired. I'm just exhausted.

1223
01:05:02,200 --> 01:05:05,800
Speaker 2: I'm overworked and overwhelmed. What would you say to them.

1224
01:05:05,800 --> 01:05:11,800
Speaker 1: To give you a big picture? You as creatures in

1225
01:05:11,840 --> 01:05:14,960
Speaker 1: this world, we have a reciprocal relationship with our environment.

1226
01:05:15,720 --> 01:05:19,960
Speaker 1: The brilliance and beauty is that we have choice. The

1227
01:05:20,120 --> 01:05:23,680
Speaker 1: like the first cell by the deep water. You know,

1228
01:05:24,160 --> 01:05:26,800
Speaker 1: we used to just drift away from toxins, but then

1229
01:05:26,840 --> 01:05:29,440
Speaker 1: at some point a single cell said that's nutrition. I

1230
01:05:29,520 --> 01:05:31,800
Speaker 1: want to swing over there, and then a collective of

1231
01:05:31,880 --> 01:05:35,560
Speaker 1: cells and then animals and creat so we have choice.

1232
01:05:36,000 --> 01:05:40,120
Speaker 1: This is like I love this. And the newest part

1233
01:05:40,120 --> 01:05:42,640
Speaker 1: of that prefrontal cortex, as describing to you the little

1234
01:05:42,800 --> 01:05:45,200
Speaker 1: the newest neurons like sedimentary layers. You know, you can

1235
01:05:45,240 --> 01:05:47,280
Speaker 1: see like where the dinosaurs are. You cut a tree

1236
01:05:47,320 --> 01:05:49,240
Speaker 1: and you can see. You can agent you figure out

1237
01:05:49,480 --> 01:05:51,080
Speaker 1: you in the brain, you can figure out which are

1238
01:05:51,120 --> 01:05:54,040
Speaker 1: the newest neurons are in this area called the orbital

1239
01:05:54,080 --> 01:05:57,560
Speaker 1: frontal cortex, which is orbital. It's just it's just descriptive.

1240
01:05:57,560 --> 01:05:59,960
Speaker 1: It just above your eyeballs and at the bottom of

1241
01:06:00,080 --> 01:06:02,320
Speaker 1: your front of lobes, you know, like right behind your forehead,

1242
01:06:02,480 --> 01:06:07,120
Speaker 1: but at the bottom, you know, and the cells there

1243
01:06:07,640 --> 01:06:10,800
Speaker 1: if they're injured. People have a hard time changing political beliefs,

1244
01:06:11,120 --> 01:06:14,240
Speaker 1: like it's different. It's it's a decision maker, and they

1245
01:06:14,280 --> 01:06:18,280
Speaker 1: call it the arbitrator system that it decides between things.

1246
01:06:18,320 --> 01:06:21,800
Speaker 1: So again, tell your shoelaces, that's not a big decision,

1247
01:06:22,000 --> 01:06:23,720
Speaker 1: a decision made for you. That's not a big decision.

1248
01:06:23,720 --> 01:06:27,520
Speaker 1: But there's a competition of wants. I want to do this,

1249
01:06:27,600 --> 01:06:29,400
Speaker 1: but I also want to do this. I want to

1250
01:06:29,400 --> 01:06:30,880
Speaker 1: have this piece of bacon, but I want to you know,

1251
01:06:30,960 --> 01:06:33,440
Speaker 1: I don't want to eat it. That's where we are

1252
01:06:33,520 --> 01:06:36,560
Speaker 1: at our most vulnerable and best, you know, that's where

1253
01:06:36,560 --> 01:06:40,560
Speaker 1: we're human. And rather than feeling frustrated by those wants

1254
01:06:40,800 --> 01:06:44,680
Speaker 1: that you can't always pursue the way you really choose

1255
01:06:44,720 --> 01:06:46,640
Speaker 1: to inside your mind, like I want to do this,

1256
01:06:46,720 --> 01:06:49,080
Speaker 1: but I don't get there. My mind is ready to

1257
01:06:49,080 --> 01:06:52,600
Speaker 1: do it, but my behavior doesn't reflect that. That that's

1258
01:06:52,640 --> 01:06:58,440
Speaker 1: called your internal referee's the it's the decision maker. And

1259
01:06:58,480 --> 01:07:00,760
Speaker 1: what I would the specific guide that would give people

1260
01:07:00,880 --> 01:07:04,800
Speaker 1: is that internal referee is vulnerable. Okay, so you want

1261
01:07:04,800 --> 01:07:06,560
Speaker 1: to work with that internal referee. You want to do

1262
01:07:06,600 --> 01:07:09,560
Speaker 1: a handful of things. Once, you want to know attention

1263
01:07:09,680 --> 01:07:13,560
Speaker 1: and focus is limited. Two, you want to know it

1264
01:07:13,640 --> 01:07:18,160
Speaker 1: is susceptible to attentional magnets. You want to stop smoking,

1265
01:07:18,480 --> 01:07:20,560
Speaker 1: We'll be careful looking up at that gas station, at

1266
01:07:20,560 --> 01:07:23,440
Speaker 1: those shiny boxes. You want to avoid eating something, and

1267
01:07:23,480 --> 01:07:26,400
Speaker 1: you know is you know your struggle to get there.

1268
01:07:26,840 --> 01:07:30,960
Speaker 1: Work with that internal referee. One, break the compulsions, break

1269
01:07:31,000 --> 01:07:33,560
Speaker 1: the attentional magnets that make you look at something, and

1270
01:07:33,600 --> 01:07:35,960
Speaker 1: then that decision goes downhill. You're like, ah, now it's

1271
01:07:35,960 --> 01:07:38,040
Speaker 1: at the gate. So the first thing is when it's

1272
01:07:38,040 --> 01:07:41,160
Speaker 1: in your head, think it out. This trips me up.

1273
01:07:41,360 --> 01:07:43,040
Speaker 1: I want to space myself from this. I want to

1274
01:07:43,040 --> 01:07:46,200
Speaker 1: physically distance myself from this. I want to only get

1275
01:07:46,480 --> 01:07:48,400
Speaker 1: a little bit of coke and then drive away. Right,

1276
01:07:48,440 --> 01:07:51,440
Speaker 1: whatever you're working on, I'm not judging anybody, But first

1277
01:07:51,600 --> 01:07:55,000
Speaker 1: is to give yourself the physical and psychological distance from

1278
01:07:55,280 --> 01:07:57,959
Speaker 1: attentional magnets that have you shift away from the want

1279
01:07:58,000 --> 01:08:02,360
Speaker 1: that you had decided you wanted. Two is then then

1280
01:08:02,400 --> 01:08:05,200
Speaker 1: if you're in it and you're like, Okay, I didn't

1281
01:08:05,200 --> 01:08:06,400
Speaker 1: want to have this food. I didn't want to have

1282
01:08:06,400 --> 01:08:07,920
Speaker 1: this puff. I didn't want to have this snort whatever,

1283
01:08:07,960 --> 01:08:11,360
Speaker 1: whatever your thing is. Once you're going down that road,

1284
01:08:11,440 --> 01:08:14,080
Speaker 1: now your internal referee is a different creature. Now, what

1285
01:08:14,120 --> 01:08:16,519
Speaker 1: you're trying to do is prevent it from becoming an urge.

1286
01:08:16,920 --> 01:08:19,959
Speaker 1: For smokers, you're looking at the shiny box, you walk outside,

1287
01:08:20,800 --> 01:08:23,840
Speaker 1: you smell. You want to get away from your thought

1288
01:08:24,439 --> 01:08:27,240
Speaker 1: hijacking your body because now you're jones and you've got

1289
01:08:27,240 --> 01:08:30,599
Speaker 1: your shivering. Now it becomes a physiologic thing. The game

1290
01:08:30,680 --> 01:08:33,080
Speaker 1: isn't lost. You can still turn it around, but you

1291
01:08:33,120 --> 01:08:38,000
Speaker 1: need to know the steps of desires as they happen,

1292
01:08:38,080 --> 01:08:41,040
Speaker 1: as in your competition of wants, and work with yourself,

1293
01:08:41,040 --> 01:08:44,080
Speaker 1: break potential magnets. Don't let it become an urge if

1294
01:08:44,080 --> 01:08:46,040
Speaker 1: you do decide to. There's a whole thing called wanting

1295
01:08:46,080 --> 01:08:48,680
Speaker 1: and seeking. That's fine. I'm gonna have this smoke, I'm

1296
01:08:48,680 --> 01:08:50,519
Speaker 1: gonna have one puff, I'm gonna throw away the pack.

1297
01:08:50,560 --> 01:08:52,240
Speaker 1: I'm gonna have this bacon, but I'm only gonna I'm

1298
01:08:52,240 --> 01:08:54,519
Speaker 1: gonna mitigate. I'm only gonna have one piece rather than

1299
01:08:54,600 --> 01:08:57,760
Speaker 1: have the whole thing. There are steps in the way

1300
01:08:57,800 --> 01:09:01,240
Speaker 1: we negotiate our wants, so It's not just I wanted

1301
01:09:01,280 --> 01:09:05,120
Speaker 1: to do this but it didn't happen. Develop your arsenal,

1302
01:09:05,360 --> 01:09:08,519
Speaker 1: the errors in your quiver of this is a competing

1303
01:09:08,600 --> 01:09:11,880
Speaker 1: want and I've got one two things through the three

1304
01:09:11,880 --> 01:09:12,640
Speaker 1: things I'm going to do.

1305
01:09:13,400 --> 01:09:16,040
Speaker 2: I love that, doctor l Johndelle. It's such a joy

1306
01:09:16,080 --> 01:09:18,400
Speaker 2: every time you hear. And I hope you'll come back

1307
01:09:18,439 --> 01:09:20,920
Speaker 2: when your new book's ready and everyone's been listening and

1308
01:09:20,960 --> 01:09:23,360
Speaker 2: watching back at home. When you're traveling, whatever you're up to,

1309
01:09:23,800 --> 01:09:27,200
Speaker 2: make sure you tag me and doctor John Deell on Instagram,

1310
01:09:27,200 --> 01:09:29,519
Speaker 2: on TikTok, wherever you push your clips, because I want

1311
01:09:29,520 --> 01:09:31,040
Speaker 2: to see what resonated with you. I want to see

1312
01:09:31,080 --> 01:09:33,120
Speaker 2: what connected with you. I always take away so much

1313
01:09:33,120 --> 01:09:35,519
Speaker 2: when I meet you. Honestly, it's things that stay with

1314
01:09:35,640 --> 01:09:38,840
Speaker 2: me for a long time, and they're good memories and

1315
01:09:39,160 --> 01:09:41,040
Speaker 2: the good lessons. So I'm very grateful for your time

1316
01:09:41,040 --> 01:09:43,880
Speaker 2: and energy. Thanks so much for coming back. If you

1317
01:09:43,960 --> 01:09:47,439
Speaker 2: love this episode, you'll enjoy my interview with doctor Daniel

1318
01:09:47,479 --> 01:09:50,880
Speaker 2: Ahman on how to change your life by changing your brain.

1319
01:09:51,360 --> 01:09:56,320
Speaker 1: If we want a healthy mind, it actually starts with

1320
01:09:56,400 --> 01:09:59,559
Speaker 1: a healthy brain. You know, I've had the blessing or

1321
01:09:59,600 --> 01:10:04,120
Speaker 1: the curve to scan over a thousand convicted felons and

1322
01:10:04,200 --> 01:10:08,040
Speaker 1: over a hundred murderers, and their brains are very damaged.