WEBVTT - The History of Slavery 0:00:05.680 --> 0:00:09.800 I'm Erica Alexander and I'm Whitney down Welcome to Reparations 0:00:09.840 --> 0:00:12.720 The Big Payback, a production of Color Farm Media, I 0:00:12.880 --> 0:00:17.279 Heart Radio and The Black Effect Podcast Network. Erica, I 0:00:17.320 --> 0:00:24.680 want to play you something two stitches, two tiny stitches 0:00:25.520 --> 0:00:32.120 and one across like this man, excellent, Only you have 0:00:32.200 --> 0:00:36.159 clever fingers and the mind to match you make it 0:00:36.240 --> 0:00:42.480 easy to learn. Man. Sound familiar? Yes? Yes, uh, that's 0:00:42.520 --> 0:00:46.040 the ghost from mini series past. It's a familiar because 0:00:46.040 --> 0:00:48.559 it's me. I'm sixteen and I'm playing the part of 0:00:48.840 --> 0:00:51.400 a slave name only Judge in a mini series called 0:00:51.440 --> 0:00:55.800 George Washington The Forging of a Nation. Yeah, I remember that. 0:00:55.840 --> 0:01:00.000 Where'd you get that from? Wow, Whitney, Yeah, I see, 0:01:00.400 --> 0:01:03.880 Well she was Martha Washington's personal slave, is what I know. 0:01:03.960 --> 0:01:06.680 At least that's what they told me. And you might 0:01:06.720 --> 0:01:11.200 add other duties, you know, like polishing Georgie Porgie's cherry tree. 0:01:11.800 --> 0:01:13.680 But yeah, that was one of my first gigs. I 0:01:13.760 --> 0:01:16.160 was thrilled to get it too because I got to 0:01:16.200 --> 0:01:19.760 act alongside of the legendary Patty Duke and shop at 0:01:19.800 --> 0:01:22.880 the gift shop. You know, they filmed that at Mount 0:01:23.040 --> 0:01:25.720 Vernon Plantation. Well, you know Erica. I had a chance 0:01:25.760 --> 0:01:28.640 to watch this many series and it looked like in 0:01:28.680 --> 0:01:30.839 this that you and Martha were pretty tight. No, only 0:01:30.959 --> 0:01:33.720 and Martha were pretty tight, not me, don't get it. 0:01:33.800 --> 0:01:36.600 Let's let's be clear about this. And maybe I don't know. 0:01:37.200 --> 0:01:40.399 You know my friend Gingeri who does the Uncivil podcast, 0:01:40.440 --> 0:01:43.520 that's the first place I heard on these real story 0:01:44.120 --> 0:01:46.120 Otherwise I wouldn't know much about it. But I mean, 0:01:46.200 --> 0:01:52.560 it's extraordinary how African American and their slave experience have 0:01:52.680 --> 0:01:55.040 mostly been authored by white people. I mean to a 0:01:55.040 --> 0:01:58.520 lot of black people. That's like Nazis writing Jewish Holocaust 0:01:58.600 --> 0:02:01.960 memoirs and think it's for roots. Because boom, that's when 0:02:02.000 --> 0:02:04.120 it changed things and we started taking the narrative back. 0:02:04.160 --> 0:02:07.560 But up until that point, for the most part, it 0:02:07.640 --> 0:02:09.080 was from a white point of view. And just to 0:02:09.080 --> 0:02:11.480 be clear, George Washington, the Forge in nomination is supposed 0:02:11.480 --> 0:02:13.799 to be about his life, not hers. But if there's 0:02:13.840 --> 0:02:17.600 an industry that could need urgent care and redress of 0:02:17.680 --> 0:02:22.680 reparations inside of media and storytelling, yeah that's Hollywood. Because 0:02:22.720 --> 0:02:26.320 the white gaze is single handedly deformed and destroyed blackness. Well, 0:02:26.360 --> 0:02:28.840 I would argue that the media has also deformed whiteness 0:02:28.840 --> 0:02:31.200 to Erica, not to destroy it, but to present it 0:02:31.200 --> 0:02:34.160 as something that it wasn't. Now, do you mind hearing 0:02:34.200 --> 0:02:36.680 from some more white people on slavery? Yes? I mind? 0:02:36.720 --> 0:02:38.800 Are you crazy? Did you just hear what I just said? 0:02:39.280 --> 0:02:43.000 I mean, we're like on different planets right now. But Erica, 0:02:43.000 --> 0:02:44.720 I think you're letting white people off the hark I 0:02:44.800 --> 0:02:46.960 let them off the hook. Okay, Yes, they should have 0:02:47.000 --> 0:02:49.280 to tell the accurate story. There are some white people 0:02:49.320 --> 0:02:51.079 who are trying to do that. Will you give it 0:02:51.240 --> 0:02:53.840 just a chance? It's you're saying it's possible that they can. 0:02:53.919 --> 0:02:56.160 I mean, but see, I'm saying that they did it 0:02:56.240 --> 0:02:58.320 whether it was possible or not. And I'm sure, by 0:02:58.320 --> 0:03:00.680 the way, some people did a lot better than most. 0:03:00.720 --> 0:03:03.120 But you want to do it now here? Do the 0:03:03.200 --> 0:03:07.280 history of slavery from a white point of view? That's ballsy, 0:03:07.400 --> 0:03:11.880 I can. Okay, black people, everybody, you know what. I'm 0:03:11.880 --> 0:03:13.880 gonna give this white man a chance to do his 0:03:13.960 --> 0:03:16.760 thing here. Do not send the letters to me. Okay, 0:03:16.760 --> 0:03:20.440 thank you, Erica, Good luck player. Okay, now let's get 0:03:20.440 --> 0:03:26.840 back to ony lovely, only lovely. I watch you like 0:03:26.880 --> 0:03:29.359 a hawk man. Then I practice in my room till 0:03:29.400 --> 0:03:32.120 I get it right. I'm beginning to think that you 0:03:32.240 --> 0:03:37.480 learn faster than I can teach you. Ma'am. I I've 0:03:37.480 --> 0:03:39.880 been wanting to say this for a long time. When 0:03:39.920 --> 0:03:43.480 Mama died of the fever, he took us in. I 0:03:43.560 --> 0:03:45.880 just want you to know how thankful I was and 0:03:46.040 --> 0:03:53.800 always want me My dear only took us in thankful. Well, 0:03:53.880 --> 0:03:58.480 it's interesting phrasing for a slave. Well, what could I say? 0:03:58.800 --> 0:04:02.200 The whole truth would have distr Roy George Washington's hero mythology. 0:04:02.760 --> 0:04:06.400 So the writers created a story that preserves him and 0:04:07.320 --> 0:04:11.520 mangles only Yeah, the story is sanitize. The result is 0:04:11.560 --> 0:04:16.000 a made for TV Frankenstein movie, Miss thank You. It 0:04:16.120 --> 0:04:18.000 was one of my first I'm happy to be in 0:04:18.080 --> 0:04:20.160 this Whitney. You're bringing this up and you're tearing it 0:04:20.200 --> 0:04:26.480 apart now rethinking everything If that's not my attention. But now, 0:04:26.640 --> 0:04:29.479 I don't know if you remember there's a big plot twist. 0:04:29.960 --> 0:04:36.080 One is missing. Oh I remember, then where could she be, George? Oh, 0:04:36.080 --> 0:04:37.920 I'm sure she just met a friend in the market 0:04:38.000 --> 0:04:40.960 and they went down to look at the ships. I 0:04:41.120 --> 0:04:46.880 have the most awful feeling something's happened Christopher. Mrs Washington 0:04:47.000 --> 0:04:49.719 is worried about Ony. She's been missing for several hours. 0:04:49.760 --> 0:04:54.640 You know where she might be. I say she's been 0:04:54.640 --> 0:04:58.800 acting out the strange later, strange this for an all 0:04:58.800 --> 0:05:04.200 the time, Molly. Would you bring Molly to us? Please? Yes, sir. 0:05:04.920 --> 0:05:06.960 She hasn't been herself. She used to come to me 0:05:07.160 --> 0:05:11.120 with all her little concerns and questions. For days now 0:05:11.240 --> 0:05:17.240 she's kept herself, hasn't affected her work. She's too conscientious 0:05:17.279 --> 0:05:22.000 for that. But all I get is yes, ma'am. No, ma'am, 0:05:22.040 --> 0:05:27.960 I'm afraid for George. Molly. Do you know where only is? No, Sir, 0:05:28.400 --> 0:05:32.400 I think you do. No, Sir, Molly, you must tell 0:05:32.480 --> 0:05:37.800 us the truth. She may be in trouble, need help. No, please, Molly. 0:05:39.200 --> 0:05:43.839 She run away with Gerald, the Frenchman. I wondered, ma'am 0:05:43.960 --> 0:05:47.719 vernon because he tried with me first. He's gonna do 0:05:47.800 --> 0:05:53.479 it wrong. I know, Oh, George, Molly, do you know 0:05:53.520 --> 0:05:59.120 where they went? They long gone, Newson, New England. Freedom 0:05:59.720 --> 0:06:04.839 free either he doesn't care about her freedom. He wants her. 0:06:05.839 --> 0:06:08.840 She'll be ruined and he'll abandoned her. I didn't want 0:06:08.880 --> 0:06:11.280 her to go, ma'am. I swear I didn't. I know, 0:06:12.080 --> 0:06:15.920 it's all right, Why would she want to flee situation 0:06:15.960 --> 0:06:22.680 where she's treated so well, where she's loved. Wow, there's 0:06:22.720 --> 0:06:25.479 a lot to unpack in that scene, Erica, Yeah, that 0:06:25.640 --> 0:06:30.240 was riveting. No comment on the plot. Media and storytelling 0:06:30.920 --> 0:06:36.360 suffered then like it does now from a chronic white superiority. 0:06:36.400 --> 0:06:38.359 It's like a dry rod. It's just up in there, 0:06:39.200 --> 0:06:42.560 and um, only or any other black person is unrecognizable, 0:06:43.279 --> 0:06:46.159 you know inside of that. That's not only by the way, 0:06:46.200 --> 0:06:52.239 that's her hologram, her balances visited and made it made 0:06:52.240 --> 0:06:55.320 for TV movie, that's not her. So yeah, but Erica, 0:06:55.440 --> 0:06:58.320 let's be honest here. Don't you think that was the goal? Right, 0:06:58.680 --> 0:07:01.600 Like the rewriting and presentation of history to support the 0:07:01.640 --> 0:07:06.640 idea of American exceptionalism and the inherent goodness of white Americans. Right? 0:07:06.760 --> 0:07:09.400 You know, the scene seems laughable now to us, but 0:07:09.520 --> 0:07:12.320 it's really not because the real story of Owny Judge 0:07:12.320 --> 0:07:16.160 and George Washington was so bonkers. You know, George Washington 0:07:16.200 --> 0:07:19.920 place an ad in the Philadelphia Gazette on May seventy 0:07:20.000 --> 0:07:22.640 six after you know, his loving ony went missing, and 0:07:22.760 --> 0:07:26.120 this is what he said, absconded from the household of 0:07:26.160 --> 0:07:29.360 the President of the United States. Owny Judge, a lightning 0:07:29.400 --> 0:07:31.720 loottle girl, much freckled, with the very black eyes and 0:07:31.760 --> 0:07:37.440 bushy hair, just like you. She said, I just now 0:07:37.480 --> 0:07:39.400 I'm really happy I got the role because I don't know. 0:07:39.960 --> 0:07:43.040 I don't look anything like who they're describing. But gone. 0:07:44.000 --> 0:07:48.760 She's a middle stature, slender and deliberate, Oh delicately delicately, 0:07:49.000 --> 0:07:51.640 about twenty years of age. She has many changes of 0:07:51.680 --> 0:07:54.240 good clothes of all sorts, but they are not sufficiently 0:07:54.280 --> 0:07:56.680 recollected to be described, which I think is really weird. 0:07:56.720 --> 0:07:58.760 Here's those person he loves. He doesn't even remember what 0:07:58.880 --> 0:08:00.960 she looks like, really saying that, you know, Well, no, 0:08:01.080 --> 0:08:02.840 he didn't know, he said, he knows what she looks like. 0:08:03.480 --> 0:08:06.480 She he doesn't know where her clothes looked like. Trust me, 0:08:06.560 --> 0:08:10.280 that black, bushy eyed stuff. That's telling us a lot freckled. 0:08:10.760 --> 0:08:14.520 It's like, no, she knows, he knows, you know. Then 0:08:14.560 --> 0:08:16.960 he goes on with my favorite line. He says, there 0:08:17.040 --> 0:08:20.240 was no suspicion of her going off, nor no provocation 0:08:20.320 --> 0:08:23.520 to do so, no provocation, And then he goes on 0:08:23.560 --> 0:08:26.280 to offer ten dollars to anyone who will quote bring 0:08:26.320 --> 0:08:30.720 her home only ten Wow, damn as if that's her home? Right? 0:08:31.160 --> 0:08:34.360 So right? No provocation apparently, Erica, owning someone who you 0:08:34.400 --> 0:08:36.360 know is supposed to provoke you. If if somebody owned you, 0:08:36.360 --> 0:08:40.160 would that provoke you? Please? I get provoked nowadays if 0:08:40.200 --> 0:08:42.480 you look at me wrong. So you know, what do 0:08:42.520 --> 0:08:46.120 you want? Look? I know I know that I provoke 0:08:46.200 --> 0:08:49.200 you at times two. But that's that's another story, Erica. 0:08:49.240 --> 0:08:50.959 When you play it roll, you said that you didn't 0:08:50.960 --> 0:08:53.360 know owing his real story that you were here. You 0:08:53.400 --> 0:08:55.800 are yet a young black woman playing a young black 0:08:55.840 --> 0:08:59.440 woman who was a slaved by George Washington, the father 0:08:59.480 --> 0:09:02.120 of our country, and he was so concerned about escape 0:09:02.160 --> 0:09:04.520 because he quote loved her at the time. How did 0:09:04.520 --> 0:09:07.200 that hit your ears? It didn't, I know awareness of it. 0:09:07.400 --> 0:09:11.040 You know. By the way, being black is a state 0:09:11.040 --> 0:09:13.560 of minds. Certainly being negro is a state of minds. 0:09:13.559 --> 0:09:16.240 Being a nigger is a state of mind. And she 0:09:16.280 --> 0:09:19.320 would have seen herself as maybe a very you know, 0:09:19.360 --> 0:09:21.720 she's in the big house, but she's still a nigger 0:09:21.760 --> 0:09:23.560 in their eyes. So the film is faithful to her 0:09:23.600 --> 0:09:26.800 status only didn't exist anymore to the filmmakers than she 0:09:26.920 --> 0:09:31.360 existed in seventeen seventy three, except as decoration to George 0:09:31.400 --> 0:09:34.960 Washington and his benevolence and all other stuff. And look 0:09:35.000 --> 0:09:39.000 at it was interesting when you say delicately formed. That's 0:09:39.040 --> 0:09:41.840 amazing that they described her that way. That's a mind ripper. 0:09:41.920 --> 0:09:45.160 But it makes me think, you know, talking about not existing. 0:09:45.800 --> 0:09:49.079 You know, there's another famous George, George Floyd, who was 0:09:49.160 --> 0:09:52.920 killed in an eight minute, forty six second blockbuster. Everyone 0:09:52.960 --> 0:09:55.880 saw that one, but he did not exist to that 0:09:56.000 --> 0:10:00.920 white officer. And that's why if you look at media, 0:10:01.280 --> 0:10:04.960 representation matters, and we need reparations. If you want black 0:10:05.000 --> 0:10:07.559 lives to matter, well, let me try and do my 0:10:07.640 --> 0:10:10.079 part here, Erica, and re contextualize the story that we 0:10:10.160 --> 0:10:13.360 just heard the story of Onie and George. Here's the 0:10:13.400 --> 0:10:16.720 real story that there was no Frenchman only found out 0:10:16.840 --> 0:10:19.560 that the loving Martha had decided to give her as 0:10:19.640 --> 0:10:22.560 a wedding present to her granddaughter. And she knew this 0:10:22.600 --> 0:10:25.880 granddaughter who was just awful, so she decided to leave. 0:10:26.559 --> 0:10:28.400 She just jumped on the ship called the Nancy that 0:10:28.400 --> 0:10:31.320 was headed to Portsmouth, New Hampshire, and she settled down there, 0:10:31.480 --> 0:10:34.280 married a free black man named Jack Stains and they 0:10:34.280 --> 0:10:39.320 had three children. Now Washington never stopped pursuing her, of course, 0:10:39.360 --> 0:10:41.800 and when he discovered her whereabouts, he sent this man 0:10:41.880 --> 0:10:44.120 named Whipple to try and convince her to come back. 0:10:45.160 --> 0:10:48.199 What's amazing is she agreed, but she had one condition 0:10:48.400 --> 0:10:50.719 that if she came back, the Washington's would promise to 0:10:50.800 --> 0:10:53.320 free her after their death, not while they were she 0:10:53.400 --> 0:10:55.400 was alive for coming back, but after they died. So 0:10:55.480 --> 0:10:58.800 she essentially was agreeing to serve as their slave for 0:10:59.320 --> 0:11:02.760 have her long we're gonna be alive for and well, 0:11:02.960 --> 0:11:05.680 that of course was not agreeable to George Washington, so 0:11:05.679 --> 0:11:07.640 he hatched another plan with his nephew, and he was 0:11:07.679 --> 0:11:10.520 gonna kidnap her, but luckily for her, the locals tipped 0:11:10.520 --> 0:11:13.040 her off and she got away. Grape Vine worked finally 0:11:13.120 --> 0:11:15.959 for once. Yeah, but he never stopped trying to get her, 0:11:16.000 --> 0:11:18.080 and he wanted to come for her children too, because 0:11:18.120 --> 0:11:21.080 even though Stains her husband was a freeman, the children 0:11:21.120 --> 0:11:23.600 had with only legally belonged to the Washington So by 0:11:23.640 --> 0:11:26.120 getting her he could get her three children as well. 0:11:26.120 --> 0:11:30.520 He didn't become George Washington, the general that saved America 0:11:30.679 --> 0:11:34.360 from the British by giving up. He was always going 0:11:34.400 --> 0:11:36.880 to come for her. That's her, you know, he was 0:11:36.920 --> 0:11:40.640 his property to her. I mean, she was no one. 0:11:41.240 --> 0:11:43.200 But we got to give a shout out to the 0:11:43.280 --> 0:11:47.200 underground Grapevine finally working for a sister. You know, they 0:11:47.240 --> 0:11:51.640 helped her escape. Again, She's being watched, she's being pursued, 0:11:51.760 --> 0:11:55.080 she's on the run. I mean, only's white folks keep 0:11:55.120 --> 0:11:57.560 popping up and saying we own you your hours, We're 0:11:57.559 --> 0:11:59.760 gonna pursue you and find ways to pursue you over 0:12:00.040 --> 0:12:03.080 yind you that we still own you Black folks. I 0:12:03.120 --> 0:12:05.720 promise you feel that today. I mean, we are just 0:12:05.880 --> 0:12:11.040 surveilled all the time, under surveillance, and it's astonishing and 0:12:11.120 --> 0:12:14.840 it's manifested in just different ways. You heard that young 0:12:14.960 --> 0:12:18.080 black man in Texas, Rodney Reese, he's walking home from work, 0:12:18.120 --> 0:12:21.440 Whitney crazy story. Yeah, well he was arrested because he 0:12:21.480 --> 0:12:23.520 was walking in the street. Now this is during a 0:12:23.559 --> 0:12:27.760 massive climate catastrophe. The police had time to do that, 0:12:28.160 --> 0:12:30.240 to arrest a young man. He had his mask on. 0:12:30.280 --> 0:12:34.320 He's balking home from Walmart, minding his own business. But 0:12:34.920 --> 0:12:38.720 their business has always been to undermine our business, to 0:12:38.840 --> 0:12:41.320 watch us, to pursue us. And you know, I have 0:12:41.400 --> 0:12:44.760 friends who right now say they feel surveilled through zoom 0:12:44.840 --> 0:12:48.000 and claim they have to justify their whereabouts even under quarantine, 0:12:48.040 --> 0:12:50.040 like oh where you ad you know, and they don't 0:12:50.080 --> 0:12:52.520 like doing that. I mean, everything is connected, you know, 0:12:52.640 --> 0:12:56.559 the will turns. It's interesting Erica. Also, what we see 0:12:56.640 --> 0:12:59.320 with the storytelling. One of the things that white people 0:12:59.320 --> 0:13:01.559 have always done is they've been able to tell stories 0:13:01.600 --> 0:13:05.920 about themselves because they didn't have They could always deny 0:13:06.040 --> 0:13:08.880 the evidence. There was like plausible deniability. And what's happening 0:13:08.880 --> 0:13:10.440 with all these things like that, like you know, talking 0:13:10.440 --> 0:13:12.720 about Rodney Reaess and some of these other stories, is 0:13:12.720 --> 0:13:14.920 that there's actually evidence now that can't there. With these 0:13:14.960 --> 0:13:18.600 bodycams on the police, with the cell phones people are carrying, 0:13:18.840 --> 0:13:21.600 they're now showing the story and white people are forced 0:13:21.640 --> 0:13:24.559 to watch this new story and reevaluate the context of 0:13:24.559 --> 0:13:27.240 how they're seeing things. And you know, this is what 0:13:27.280 --> 0:13:29.679 we're learning. There's what we're talking about, right, is that 0:13:29.720 --> 0:13:32.360 the stories we tell ourselves about America, as you call it, 0:13:32.440 --> 0:13:36.000 America the Beautiful, is that things are always a little 0:13:36.000 --> 0:13:38.880 more complicated, a little darker than we'd like to admit, 0:13:39.080 --> 0:13:41.120 not just a little whitney. Come on, they're a lot 0:13:41.240 --> 0:13:44.400 darker and they're very complicated. You know, you're doing too 0:13:44.480 --> 0:13:47.520 much little stuff that's minimizing. It's not little, it's a 0:13:47.600 --> 0:13:52.079 very it's a lot complicated, Yes, a lot more complicated. Continue. 0:13:52.280 --> 0:13:54.559 The other thing we've been talking about, how this strand 0:13:54.760 --> 0:13:58.000 of slavery, the sort of strand of horror that sort 0:13:58.000 --> 0:14:00.600 of permeates so many of these stories that's not called out. 0:14:00.880 --> 0:14:05.560 I think I think that reparations include a storytelling component, 0:14:05.760 --> 0:14:08.920 a component where we retell our stories and we people 0:14:08.960 --> 0:14:11.520 have to relearn history and learn the full story so 0:14:11.600 --> 0:14:15.160 Americans have a true understanding of their history. So in 0:14:15.200 --> 0:14:17.720 the full story of Washington, you know, Mr I cannot 0:14:17.720 --> 0:14:20.640 tell a lie, and who was celebrated for freeing his slaves. 0:14:20.680 --> 0:14:23.960 After his death, he pursued a young black woman who's 0:14:24.080 --> 0:14:27.280 only crime what she wanted to seek, the same freedom 0:14:27.360 --> 0:14:29.720 that he had spent decades fighting for. You know, it's 0:14:29.720 --> 0:14:32.760 funny that guy Whipple who sent to actually try and 0:14:32.800 --> 0:14:35.440 convince her to come back. He wrote to Washington telling 0:14:35.480 --> 0:14:38.240 him quote, a thirst for freedom had been her only 0:14:38.320 --> 0:14:42.280 motive for absconding. And this is how you know, the 0:14:42.320 --> 0:14:44.960 founder of our country, the father of our country, responded, 0:14:45.000 --> 0:14:48.040 which is pretty depressing. I regret that the attempt you 0:14:48.120 --> 0:14:51.560 made to restore the girl should have been attended with 0:14:51.600 --> 0:14:55.520 so little success to reward unfaithfulness. This was about her 0:14:55.560 --> 0:14:58.840 asking to be freed out of death with a premature preference, 0:14:59.240 --> 0:15:02.880 thereby connect beforehand the minds of all her fellow servants, who, 0:15:02.880 --> 0:15:06.400 by their steady achievements, are far more deserving than herself 0:15:06.400 --> 0:15:11.480 of favor. So what he's saying is that only people 0:15:11.480 --> 0:15:14.640 who submit to bondage willingly are deserving your freedom. Anybody 0:15:14.640 --> 0:15:17.160 who has the temerity to try and take freedom for 0:15:17.200 --> 0:15:22.720 theirselves like he did, well they should forget about it. Yeah, well, 0:15:22.760 --> 0:15:24.720 you know, the father of our country is the father 0:15:24.840 --> 0:15:29.120 of our suffering, the father of our bondage, the father 0:15:29.240 --> 0:15:33.280 of tremendous evil. And again, you know, And if you 0:15:33.360 --> 0:15:35.080 just flip the script a little bit and see it 0:15:35.160 --> 0:15:38.880 from the Africans point of view, he's he's worse than Hitler. 0:15:39.440 --> 0:15:45.360 He's setting up a country to be independent but self 0:15:45.400 --> 0:15:50.920 supportive of the biggest holocaust in world history. So let's 0:15:50.960 --> 0:15:53.920 get that straight. Number one. But I think we should 0:15:54.000 --> 0:15:57.000 move on because holl is this is cute, and I 0:15:57.120 --> 0:15:59.640 like thinking about, you know, old jobs that I have 0:16:00.120 --> 0:16:02.640 and I really really do despite that, I still will 0:16:02.880 --> 0:16:04.960 chair us the time I had on there, and you 0:16:05.000 --> 0:16:07.240 know what it meant for me to be chosen to 0:16:07.320 --> 0:16:09.160 be on a series like that, because it was a 0:16:09.160 --> 0:16:12.160 big deal and moved me forward. But let's move on, 0:16:12.200 --> 0:16:15.320 because only just one slave story in a long history 0:16:15.320 --> 0:16:16.840 of slavey, and we got a hall ask if we're 0:16:16.840 --> 0:16:20.720 going to get through it. So this woman, she's got 0:16:20.720 --> 0:16:23.920 a very interesting history and has been telling the truth 0:16:24.480 --> 0:16:27.640 and putting it out there. Her family was an owner 0:16:27.680 --> 0:16:32.120 of slaves, a white woman named Brown. My father would 0:16:32.200 --> 0:16:35.520 whisper when he was talking about black people, and there 0:16:35.600 --> 0:16:39.000 was just a message that came through that whisper that 0:16:39.160 --> 0:16:41.920 was we have to be very carefully and we can't 0:16:41.960 --> 0:16:44.760 talk about this much. So it wasn't that he was 0:16:44.800 --> 0:16:49.200 saying anything overtly racist or anything like that, but just 0:16:49.280 --> 0:16:53.000 to sort of like tread lightly, kind of feeling that 0:16:53.240 --> 0:16:58.320 pervaded the low voice. My name is Katrina Brown, and 0:16:58.640 --> 0:17:02.920 my life revolves primarily around my discovery that my ancestors 0:17:02.920 --> 0:17:06.919 were the largest slave trading family in US history. It 0:17:07.040 --> 0:17:10.440 was just complete cognitive dissonance the idea that they could 0:17:10.440 --> 0:17:12.720 have been slave traders, so the idea that I came 0:17:12.800 --> 0:17:17.000 from a family of ministers and academics, and like my 0:17:17.160 --> 0:17:21.600 grandfather was a philosophy professor, my other grandfather was a minister, 0:17:22.480 --> 0:17:27.359 So there was some pride around not being in money 0:17:27.400 --> 0:17:31.639 making occupations but being in more service the betterment of 0:17:31.640 --> 0:17:36.360 mankind type occupations. So no one realized that the Dwolves 0:17:36.400 --> 0:17:40.600 were basically the largest slave trading family in US history. 0:17:41.240 --> 0:17:45.600 So statistically they brought more Africans on their ships than 0:17:45.800 --> 0:17:51.000 any other family north or south. So a huge fortune 0:17:51.040 --> 0:17:54.400 was amassed from all of this that was pretty much 0:17:54.560 --> 0:17:58.720 squandered by a couple of generations later. We wouldn't be 0:17:58.720 --> 0:18:01.320 able to say we inherited my directly from the slave trade, 0:18:01.359 --> 0:18:04.680 but it's really obvious to me that we have been 0:18:04.720 --> 0:18:08.440 in the elite ever since, and it fits the pattern 0:18:08.480 --> 0:18:12.040 where once you're in the elite, you marry other elite families. 0:18:12.040 --> 0:18:16.159 So I'm like super aware of the class privilege that 0:18:16.280 --> 0:18:19.520 has remained even if we're not at like the uber 0:18:19.680 --> 0:18:24.360 rich level, and I'm super aware of how much social 0:18:24.400 --> 0:18:27.359 capital I have. So we've gone to a lot of 0:18:27.400 --> 0:18:31.320 Ivy League schools, private schools, you know. So I've had 0:18:31.600 --> 0:18:35.760 just the best education, and that's a pattern in the family. 0:18:35.880 --> 0:18:40.280 So just extremely aware of how much we were set 0:18:40.359 --> 0:18:42.959 up to succeed basically, and to be able to go 0:18:43.000 --> 0:18:47.280 into the professions of our choosing, etcetera, etcetera. Embarrassing might 0:18:47.320 --> 0:18:50.000 sound like too small of a word, but it's just 0:18:50.200 --> 0:18:54.680 embarrassing to admit the ways in which the cover up manifested, 0:18:54.920 --> 0:18:58.639 you know what I mean. It's so mortifying still, Like 0:18:58.760 --> 0:19:01.000 can I even say this that it was being trivialized? 0:19:01.000 --> 0:19:03.720 How could it have been trivialized, of all things to trivialize. 0:19:04.240 --> 0:19:07.320 But there was the kind of party line, shall we 0:19:07.359 --> 0:19:13.320 call it was about referring to them as pirates, scally wags, 0:19:14.119 --> 0:19:16.359 boys will be boys, you know. That was kind of 0:19:16.359 --> 0:19:20.960 the energy around it, like a dismissive like those back then, 0:19:21.080 --> 0:19:23.400 those you know, that's what people did back then, and 0:19:23.720 --> 0:19:27.560 those wrapped scallions. You know, there's a way in which, 0:19:27.880 --> 0:19:30.959 despite working on this for twenty five years, it's still 0:19:31.000 --> 0:19:34.760 too shocking to even contemplate. There's still too much nous 0:19:34.880 --> 0:19:38.880 to it that operates within my psyche. I had a 0:19:38.920 --> 0:19:43.600 cousin who shared with me early on she said, I 0:19:43.640 --> 0:19:46.720 assumed that if it was the Dewolf's and it was 0:19:46.800 --> 0:19:49.919 the slave trade, it must have been a polite slave trade. 0:19:50.600 --> 0:19:52.560 And then she of course laughed at herself because she 0:19:52.640 --> 0:19:55.160 was like, of course, it wasn't a polite slave trade. 0:19:55.200 --> 0:19:57.639 There's no such thing as a polite slave trade. But 0:19:57.760 --> 0:20:00.359 it was by way of saying, like, we're good. People 0:20:00.400 --> 0:20:02.800 were nice, people were polite, right, That's who we are. 0:20:03.280 --> 0:20:04.960 So if we did it, we must have done it 0:20:05.000 --> 0:20:08.240 in a polite manner. So you have caught me in 0:20:08.280 --> 0:20:11.879 the act of manifesting that tendency to minimize and to 0:20:12.240 --> 0:20:17.040 understate it, because to state it baldly as it is 0:20:17.040 --> 0:20:20.399 is just still to me so upsetting. So if I 0:20:20.440 --> 0:20:23.560 were doing it, do over, I would say, they purchased 0:20:23.640 --> 0:20:28.840 human beings who had been kidnapped by force, and we're 0:20:28.920 --> 0:20:32.760 in a complete and utter state of terror. And it 0:20:32.840 --> 0:20:36.480 was the most horrific type of circumstance one could possibly imagine. 0:20:36.600 --> 0:20:39.399 And my ancestors did it over and over and over again. 0:20:39.600 --> 0:20:42.680 And as my cousin Tom said, they must have known 0:20:42.720 --> 0:20:44.359 it was evil. How could you not when you were 0:20:44.359 --> 0:20:48.160 hearing people screaming in the holds below and yet they 0:20:48.200 --> 0:20:52.399 somehow told themselves stories to justify that this was okay. 0:20:52.600 --> 0:21:01.400 And their blood runs in me rascals in scallywags, that's 0:21:01.400 --> 0:21:04.600 another way to put it. Uh yeah, Or at least 0:21:04.600 --> 0:21:07.439 she's admitting that her family history had been sanitized, like 0:21:07.520 --> 0:21:12.639 George Washington. There's a pattern that develops very clearly. What 0:21:12.720 --> 0:21:16.359 a brutal system though, right? I mean, it makes me 0:21:16.400 --> 0:21:20.040 wonder just karma exists. I'm not mean spirited, Whitney, I 0:21:20.040 --> 0:21:22.760 don't want you to think that. But has this knowledge 0:21:23.720 --> 0:21:28.560 been brutal for Katrina Brown's family because they've prospered, they've 0:21:28.600 --> 0:21:31.520 done well. I mean, are the sins of the father 0:21:31.720 --> 0:21:35.600 really visited upon the sun inside of the family? What 0:21:35.640 --> 0:21:37.399 do they feel? But she's certainly trying to bear the 0:21:37.440 --> 0:21:40.840 weight and atone for that evil legacy. But I don't know. 0:21:40.880 --> 0:21:43.199 Maybe white folks, you know, in in your DNA, it 0:21:43.240 --> 0:21:45.600 isn't encoded the same way that it is for the 0:21:45.600 --> 0:21:48.840 descendants of slaves. But I'll keep looking for signs of life. 0:21:49.160 --> 0:21:52.560 Maybe it's a cosmic curse, Whitney, that's cast upon your 0:21:52.560 --> 0:21:56.679 people that will always keep most whites at arm's length 0:21:57.040 --> 0:22:00.760 with their reckoning of slavery. Yeah. I mean it may 0:22:00.960 --> 0:22:02.680 you may have that, but it's working for you now, 0:22:02.720 --> 0:22:06.080 but it will not stop nemesis. If we're talking about storytelling, 0:22:06.400 --> 0:22:10.320 Nemesis is on your ass, no doubt. I think the 0:22:10.359 --> 0:22:12.440 only way to stop at Erica's for wet Americans to 0:22:12.520 --> 0:22:15.960 fully acknowledge their legacy. They have to accept their history 0:22:15.960 --> 0:22:17.919 if they want to live as moral humans. That's kind 0:22:17.920 --> 0:22:20.640 of what I think. And I think that any sentient 0:22:20.720 --> 0:22:23.479 white person with the slightest bit of self reflection has 0:22:23.520 --> 0:22:27.399 to grapple with us. You know, we white people have 0:22:27.440 --> 0:22:31.160 been the dominant storytellers for so long, and we could 0:22:31.400 --> 0:22:34.119 use tools to lie the necessary facts, or we'd use 0:22:34.200 --> 0:22:36.800 minimizing language to create a moral space for ourselves in 0:22:36.800 --> 0:22:39.560 a story. We know that in our hearts is immral. 0:22:40.560 --> 0:22:43.280 And I'm gonna get a little fan boy here when 0:22:43.320 --> 0:22:45.840 I talk about Edward Baptist. He wrote a book called 0:22:45.840 --> 0:22:47.520 The Half Has Never Been Told that I think all 0:22:47.520 --> 0:22:49.800 white people should read, and I'm gonna paraphrase him here, 0:22:50.240 --> 0:22:53.240 and he says something like historians have for years to 0:22:53.320 --> 0:22:57.000 use minimizing language about the true nature of the slave system. 0:22:57.160 --> 0:23:01.200 They talk about discipline, quote, and punishment as if there 0:23:01.200 --> 0:23:03.960 were some logical basis for the system of slavery, rather 0:23:03.960 --> 0:23:07.480 than simply naming it for what it was, a super 0:23:07.640 --> 0:23:12.240 profitable economic system. Who lowest gear was torture. A man 0:23:12.320 --> 0:23:16.159