1 00:00:05,680 --> 00:00:09,800 Speaker 1: I'm Erica Alexander and I'm Whitney down Welcome to Reparations 2 00:00:09,840 --> 00:00:12,720 Speaker 1: The Big Payback, a production of Color Farm Media, I 3 00:00:12,880 --> 00:00:17,279 Speaker 1: Heart Radio and The Black Effect Podcast Network. Erica, I 4 00:00:17,320 --> 00:00:24,680 Speaker 1: want to play you something two stitches, two tiny stitches 5 00:00:25,520 --> 00:00:32,120 Speaker 1: and one across like this man, excellent, Only you have 6 00:00:32,200 --> 00:00:36,159 Speaker 1: clever fingers and the mind to match you make it 7 00:00:36,240 --> 00:00:42,480 Speaker 1: easy to learn. Man. Sound familiar? Yes? Yes, uh, that's 8 00:00:42,520 --> 00:00:46,040 Speaker 1: the ghost from mini series past. It's a familiar because 9 00:00:46,040 --> 00:00:48,559 Speaker 1: it's me. I'm sixteen and I'm playing the part of 10 00:00:48,840 --> 00:00:51,400 Speaker 1: a slave name only Judge in a mini series called 11 00:00:51,440 --> 00:00:55,800 Speaker 1: George Washington The Forging of a Nation. Yeah, I remember that. 12 00:00:55,840 --> 00:01:00,000 Speaker 1: Where'd you get that from? Wow, Whitney, Yeah, I see, 13 00:01:00,400 --> 00:01:03,880 Speaker 1: Well she was Martha Washington's personal slave, is what I know. 14 00:01:03,960 --> 00:01:06,680 Speaker 1: At least that's what they told me. And you might 15 00:01:06,720 --> 00:01:11,200 Speaker 1: add other duties, you know, like polishing Georgie Porgie's cherry tree. 16 00:01:11,800 --> 00:01:13,680 Speaker 1: But yeah, that was one of my first gigs. I 17 00:01:13,760 --> 00:01:16,160 Speaker 1: was thrilled to get it too because I got to 18 00:01:16,200 --> 00:01:19,760 Speaker 1: act alongside of the legendary Patty Duke and shop at 19 00:01:19,800 --> 00:01:22,880 Speaker 1: the gift shop. You know, they filmed that at Mount 20 00:01:23,040 --> 00:01:25,720 Speaker 1: Vernon Plantation. Well, you know Erica. I had a chance 21 00:01:25,760 --> 00:01:28,640 Speaker 1: to watch this many series and it looked like in 22 00:01:28,680 --> 00:01:30,839 Speaker 1: this that you and Martha were pretty tight. No, only 23 00:01:30,959 --> 00:01:33,720 Speaker 1: and Martha were pretty tight, not me, don't get it. 24 00:01:33,800 --> 00:01:36,600 Speaker 1: Let's let's be clear about this. And maybe I don't know. 25 00:01:37,200 --> 00:01:40,399 Speaker 1: You know my friend Gingeri who does the Uncivil podcast, 26 00:01:40,440 --> 00:01:43,520 Speaker 1: that's the first place I heard on these real story 27 00:01:44,120 --> 00:01:46,120 Speaker 1: Otherwise I wouldn't know much about it. But I mean, 28 00:01:46,200 --> 00:01:52,560 Speaker 1: it's extraordinary how African American and their slave experience have 29 00:01:52,680 --> 00:01:55,040 Speaker 1: mostly been authored by white people. I mean to a 30 00:01:55,040 --> 00:01:58,520 Speaker 1: lot of black people. That's like Nazis writing Jewish Holocaust 31 00:01:58,600 --> 00:02:01,960 Speaker 1: memoirs and think it's for roots. Because boom, that's when 32 00:02:02,000 --> 00:02:04,120 Speaker 1: it changed things and we started taking the narrative back. 33 00:02:04,160 --> 00:02:07,560 Speaker 1: But up until that point, for the most part, it 34 00:02:07,640 --> 00:02:09,080 Speaker 1: was from a white point of view. And just to 35 00:02:09,080 --> 00:02:11,480 Speaker 1: be clear, George Washington, the Forge in nomination is supposed 36 00:02:11,480 --> 00:02:13,799 Speaker 1: to be about his life, not hers. But if there's 37 00:02:13,840 --> 00:02:17,600 Speaker 1: an industry that could need urgent care and redress of 38 00:02:17,680 --> 00:02:22,680 Speaker 1: reparations inside of media and storytelling, yeah that's Hollywood. Because 39 00:02:22,720 --> 00:02:26,320 Speaker 1: the white gaze is single handedly deformed and destroyed blackness. Well, 40 00:02:26,360 --> 00:02:28,840 Speaker 1: I would argue that the media has also deformed whiteness 41 00:02:28,840 --> 00:02:31,200 Speaker 1: to Erica, not to destroy it, but to present it 42 00:02:31,200 --> 00:02:34,160 Speaker 1: as something that it wasn't. Now, do you mind hearing 43 00:02:34,200 --> 00:02:36,680 Speaker 1: from some more white people on slavery? Yes? I mind? 44 00:02:36,720 --> 00:02:38,800 Speaker 1: Are you crazy? Did you just hear what I just said? 45 00:02:39,280 --> 00:02:43,000 Speaker 1: I mean, we're like on different planets right now. But Erica, 46 00:02:43,000 --> 00:02:44,720 Speaker 1: I think you're letting white people off the hark I 47 00:02:44,800 --> 00:02:46,960 Speaker 1: let them off the hook. Okay, Yes, they should have 48 00:02:47,000 --> 00:02:49,280 Speaker 1: to tell the accurate story. There are some white people 49 00:02:49,320 --> 00:02:51,079 Speaker 1: who are trying to do that. Will you give it 50 00:02:51,240 --> 00:02:53,840 Speaker 1: just a chance? It's you're saying it's possible that they can. 51 00:02:53,919 --> 00:02:56,160 Speaker 1: I mean, but see, I'm saying that they did it 52 00:02:56,240 --> 00:02:58,320 Speaker 1: whether it was possible or not. And I'm sure, by 53 00:02:58,320 --> 00:03:00,680 Speaker 1: the way, some people did a lot better than most. 54 00:03:00,720 --> 00:03:03,120 Speaker 1: But you want to do it now here? Do the 55 00:03:03,200 --> 00:03:07,280 Speaker 1: history of slavery from a white point of view? That's ballsy, 56 00:03:07,400 --> 00:03:11,880 Speaker 1: I can. Okay, black people, everybody, you know what. I'm 57 00:03:11,880 --> 00:03:13,880 Speaker 1: gonna give this white man a chance to do his 58 00:03:13,960 --> 00:03:16,760 Speaker 1: thing here. Do not send the letters to me. Okay, 59 00:03:16,760 --> 00:03:20,440 Speaker 1: thank you, Erica, Good luck player. Okay, now let's get 60 00:03:20,440 --> 00:03:26,840 Speaker 1: back to ony lovely, only lovely. I watch you like 61 00:03:26,880 --> 00:03:29,359 Speaker 1: a hawk man. Then I practice in my room till 62 00:03:29,400 --> 00:03:32,120 Speaker 1: I get it right. I'm beginning to think that you 63 00:03:32,240 --> 00:03:37,480 Speaker 1: learn faster than I can teach you. Ma'am. I I've 64 00:03:37,480 --> 00:03:39,880 Speaker 1: been wanting to say this for a long time. When 65 00:03:39,920 --> 00:03:43,480 Speaker 1: Mama died of the fever, he took us in. I 66 00:03:43,560 --> 00:03:45,880 Speaker 1: just want you to know how thankful I was and 67 00:03:46,040 --> 00:03:53,800 Speaker 1: always want me My dear only took us in thankful. Well, 68 00:03:53,880 --> 00:03:58,480 Speaker 1: it's interesting phrasing for a slave. Well, what could I say? 69 00:03:58,800 --> 00:04:02,200 Speaker 1: The whole truth would have distr Roy George Washington's hero mythology. 70 00:04:02,760 --> 00:04:06,400 Speaker 1: So the writers created a story that preserves him and 71 00:04:07,320 --> 00:04:11,520 Speaker 1: mangles only Yeah, the story is sanitize. The result is 72 00:04:11,560 --> 00:04:16,000 Speaker 1: a made for TV Frankenstein movie, Miss thank You. It 73 00:04:16,120 --> 00:04:18,000 Speaker 1: was one of my first I'm happy to be in 74 00:04:18,080 --> 00:04:20,160 Speaker 1: this Whitney. You're bringing this up and you're tearing it 75 00:04:20,200 --> 00:04:26,480 Speaker 1: apart now rethinking everything If that's not my attention. But now, 76 00:04:26,640 --> 00:04:29,479 Speaker 1: I don't know if you remember there's a big plot twist. 77 00:04:29,960 --> 00:04:36,080 Speaker 1: One is missing. Oh I remember, then where could she be, George? Oh, 78 00:04:36,080 --> 00:04:37,920 Speaker 1: I'm sure she just met a friend in the market 79 00:04:38,000 --> 00:04:40,960 Speaker 1: and they went down to look at the ships. I 80 00:04:41,120 --> 00:04:46,880 Speaker 1: have the most awful feeling something's happened Christopher. Mrs Washington 81 00:04:47,000 --> 00:04:49,719 Speaker 1: is worried about Ony. She's been missing for several hours. 82 00:04:49,760 --> 00:04:54,640 Speaker 1: You know where she might be. I say she's been 83 00:04:54,640 --> 00:04:58,800 Speaker 1: acting out the strange later, strange this for an all 84 00:04:58,800 --> 00:05:04,200 Speaker 1: the time, Molly. Would you bring Molly to us? Please? Yes, sir. 85 00:05:04,920 --> 00:05:06,960 Speaker 1: She hasn't been herself. She used to come to me 86 00:05:07,160 --> 00:05:11,120 Speaker 1: with all her little concerns and questions. For days now 87 00:05:11,240 --> 00:05:17,240 Speaker 1: she's kept herself, hasn't affected her work. She's too conscientious 88 00:05:17,279 --> 00:05:22,000 Speaker 1: for that. But all I get is yes, ma'am. No, ma'am, 89 00:05:22,040 --> 00:05:27,960 Speaker 1: I'm afraid for George. Molly. Do you know where only is? No, Sir, 90 00:05:28,400 --> 00:05:32,400 Speaker 1: I think you do. No, Sir, Molly, you must tell 91 00:05:32,480 --> 00:05:37,800 Speaker 1: us the truth. She may be in trouble, need help. No, please, Molly. 92 00:05:39,200 --> 00:05:43,839 Speaker 1: She run away with Gerald, the Frenchman. I wondered, ma'am 93 00:05:43,960 --> 00:05:47,719 Speaker 1: vernon because he tried with me first. He's gonna do 94 00:05:47,800 --> 00:05:53,479 Speaker 1: it wrong. I know, Oh, George, Molly, do you know 95 00:05:53,520 --> 00:05:59,120 Speaker 1: where they went? They long gone, Newson, New England. Freedom 96 00:05:59,720 --> 00:06:04,839 Speaker 1: free either he doesn't care about her freedom. He wants her. 97 00:06:05,839 --> 00:06:08,840 Speaker 1: She'll be ruined and he'll abandoned her. I didn't want 98 00:06:08,880 --> 00:06:11,280 Speaker 1: her to go, ma'am. I swear I didn't. I know, 99 00:06:12,080 --> 00:06:15,920 Speaker 1: it's all right, Why would she want to flee situation 100 00:06:15,960 --> 00:06:22,680 Speaker 1: where she's treated so well, where she's loved. Wow, there's 101 00:06:22,720 --> 00:06:25,479 Speaker 1: a lot to unpack in that scene, Erica, Yeah, that 102 00:06:25,640 --> 00:06:30,240 Speaker 1: was riveting. No comment on the plot. Media and storytelling 103 00:06:30,920 --> 00:06:36,360 Speaker 1: suffered then like it does now from a chronic white superiority. 104 00:06:36,400 --> 00:06:38,359 Speaker 1: It's like a dry rod. It's just up in there, 105 00:06:39,200 --> 00:06:42,560 Speaker 1: and um, only or any other black person is unrecognizable, 106 00:06:43,279 --> 00:06:46,159 Speaker 1: you know inside of that. That's not only by the way, 107 00:06:46,200 --> 00:06:52,239 Speaker 1: that's her hologram, her balances visited and made it made 108 00:06:52,240 --> 00:06:55,320 Speaker 1: for TV movie, that's not her. So yeah, but Erica, 109 00:06:55,440 --> 00:06:58,320 Speaker 1: let's be honest here. Don't you think that was the goal? Right, 110 00:06:58,680 --> 00:07:01,600 Speaker 1: Like the rewriting and presentation of history to support the 111 00:07:01,640 --> 00:07:06,640 Speaker 1: idea of American exceptionalism and the inherent goodness of white Americans. Right? 112 00:07:06,760 --> 00:07:09,400 Speaker 1: You know, the scene seems laughable now to us, but 113 00:07:09,520 --> 00:07:12,320 Speaker 1: it's really not because the real story of Owny Judge 114 00:07:12,320 --> 00:07:16,160 Speaker 1: and George Washington was so bonkers. You know, George Washington 115 00:07:16,200 --> 00:07:19,920 Speaker 1: place an ad in the Philadelphia Gazette on May seventy 116 00:07:20,000 --> 00:07:22,640 Speaker 1: six after you know, his loving ony went missing, and 117 00:07:22,760 --> 00:07:26,120 Speaker 1: this is what he said, absconded from the household of 118 00:07:26,160 --> 00:07:29,360 Speaker 1: the President of the United States. Owny Judge, a lightning 119 00:07:29,400 --> 00:07:31,720 Speaker 1: loottle girl, much freckled, with the very black eyes and 120 00:07:31,760 --> 00:07:37,440 Speaker 1: bushy hair, just like you. She said, I just now 121 00:07:37,480 --> 00:07:39,400 Speaker 1: I'm really happy I got the role because I don't know. 122 00:07:39,960 --> 00:07:43,040 Speaker 1: I don't look anything like who they're describing. But gone. 123 00:07:44,000 --> 00:07:48,760 Speaker 1: She's a middle stature, slender and deliberate, Oh delicately delicately, 124 00:07:49,000 --> 00:07:51,640 Speaker 1: about twenty years of age. She has many changes of 125 00:07:51,680 --> 00:07:54,240 Speaker 1: good clothes of all sorts, but they are not sufficiently 126 00:07:54,280 --> 00:07:56,680 Speaker 1: recollected to be described, which I think is really weird. 127 00:07:56,720 --> 00:07:58,760 Speaker 1: Here's those person he loves. He doesn't even remember what 128 00:07:58,880 --> 00:08:00,960 Speaker 1: she looks like, really saying that, you know, Well, no, 129 00:08:01,080 --> 00:08:02,840 Speaker 1: he didn't know, he said, he knows what she looks like. 130 00:08:03,480 --> 00:08:06,480 Speaker 1: She he doesn't know where her clothes looked like. Trust me, 131 00:08:06,560 --> 00:08:10,280 Speaker 1: that black, bushy eyed stuff. That's telling us a lot freckled. 132 00:08:10,760 --> 00:08:14,520 Speaker 1: It's like, no, she knows, he knows, you know. Then 133 00:08:14,560 --> 00:08:16,960 Speaker 1: he goes on with my favorite line. He says, there 134 00:08:17,040 --> 00:08:20,240 Speaker 1: was no suspicion of her going off, nor no provocation 135 00:08:20,320 --> 00:08:23,520 Speaker 1: to do so, no provocation, And then he goes on 136 00:08:23,560 --> 00:08:26,280 Speaker 1: to offer ten dollars to anyone who will quote bring 137 00:08:26,320 --> 00:08:30,720 Speaker 1: her home only ten Wow, damn as if that's her home? Right? 138 00:08:31,160 --> 00:08:34,360 Speaker 1: So right? No provocation apparently, Erica, owning someone who you 139 00:08:34,400 --> 00:08:36,360 Speaker 1: know is supposed to provoke you. If if somebody owned you, 140 00:08:36,360 --> 00:08:40,160 Speaker 1: would that provoke you? Please? I get provoked nowadays if 141 00:08:40,200 --> 00:08:42,480 Speaker 1: you look at me wrong. So you know, what do 142 00:08:42,520 --> 00:08:46,120 Speaker 1: you want? Look? I know I know that I provoke 143 00:08:46,200 --> 00:08:49,200 Speaker 1: you at times two. But that's that's another story, Erica. 144 00:08:49,240 --> 00:08:50,959 Speaker 1: When you play it roll, you said that you didn't 145 00:08:50,960 --> 00:08:53,360 Speaker 1: know owing his real story that you were here. You 146 00:08:53,400 --> 00:08:55,800 Speaker 1: are yet a young black woman playing a young black 147 00:08:55,840 --> 00:08:59,440 Speaker 1: woman who was a slaved by George Washington, the father 148 00:08:59,480 --> 00:09:02,120 Speaker 1: of our country, and he was so concerned about escape 149 00:09:02,160 --> 00:09:04,520 Speaker 1: because he quote loved her at the time. How did 150 00:09:04,520 --> 00:09:07,200 Speaker 1: that hit your ears? It didn't, I know awareness of it. 151 00:09:07,400 --> 00:09:11,040 Speaker 1: You know. By the way, being black is a state 152 00:09:11,040 --> 00:09:13,560 Speaker 1: of minds. Certainly being negro is a state of minds. 153 00:09:13,559 --> 00:09:16,240 Speaker 1: Being a nigger is a state of mind. And she 154 00:09:16,280 --> 00:09:19,320 Speaker 1: would have seen herself as maybe a very you know, 155 00:09:19,360 --> 00:09:21,720 Speaker 1: she's in the big house, but she's still a nigger 156 00:09:21,760 --> 00:09:23,560 Speaker 1: in their eyes. So the film is faithful to her 157 00:09:23,600 --> 00:09:26,800 Speaker 1: status only didn't exist anymore to the filmmakers than she 158 00:09:26,920 --> 00:09:31,360 Speaker 1: existed in seventeen seventy three, except as decoration to George 159 00:09:31,400 --> 00:09:34,960 Speaker 1: Washington and his benevolence and all other stuff. And look 160 00:09:35,000 --> 00:09:39,000 Speaker 1: at it was interesting when you say delicately formed. That's 161 00:09:39,040 --> 00:09:41,840 Speaker 1: amazing that they described her that way. That's a mind ripper. 162 00:09:41,920 --> 00:09:45,160 Speaker 1: But it makes me think, you know, talking about not existing. 163 00:09:45,800 --> 00:09:49,079 Speaker 1: You know, there's another famous George, George Floyd, who was 164 00:09:49,160 --> 00:09:52,920 Speaker 1: killed in an eight minute, forty six second blockbuster. Everyone 165 00:09:52,960 --> 00:09:55,880 Speaker 1: saw that one, but he did not exist to that 166 00:09:56,000 --> 00:10:00,920 Speaker 1: white officer. And that's why if you look at media, 167 00:10:01,280 --> 00:10:04,960 Speaker 1: representation matters, and we need reparations. If you want black 168 00:10:05,000 --> 00:10:07,559 Speaker 1: lives to matter, well, let me try and do my 169 00:10:07,640 --> 00:10:10,079 Speaker 1: part here, Erica, and re contextualize the story that we 170 00:10:10,160 --> 00:10:13,360 Speaker 1: just heard the story of Onie and George. Here's the 171 00:10:13,400 --> 00:10:16,720 Speaker 1: real story that there was no Frenchman only found out 172 00:10:16,840 --> 00:10:19,560 Speaker 1: that the loving Martha had decided to give her as 173 00:10:19,640 --> 00:10:22,560 Speaker 1: a wedding present to her granddaughter. And she knew this 174 00:10:22,600 --> 00:10:25,880 Speaker 1: granddaughter who was just awful, so she decided to leave. 175 00:10:26,559 --> 00:10:28,400 Speaker 1: She just jumped on the ship called the Nancy that 176 00:10:28,400 --> 00:10:31,320 Speaker 1: was headed to Portsmouth, New Hampshire, and she settled down there, 177 00:10:31,480 --> 00:10:34,280 Speaker 1: married a free black man named Jack Stains and they 178 00:10:34,280 --> 00:10:39,320 Speaker 1: had three children. Now Washington never stopped pursuing her, of course, 179 00:10:39,360 --> 00:10:41,800 Speaker 1: and when he discovered her whereabouts, he sent this man 180 00:10:41,880 --> 00:10:44,120 Speaker 1: named Whipple to try and convince her to come back. 181 00:10:45,160 --> 00:10:48,199 Speaker 1: What's amazing is she agreed, but she had one condition 182 00:10:48,400 --> 00:10:50,719 Speaker 1: that if she came back, the Washington's would promise to 183 00:10:50,800 --> 00:10:53,320 Speaker 1: free her after their death, not while they were she 184 00:10:53,400 --> 00:10:55,400 Speaker 1: was alive for coming back, but after they died. So 185 00:10:55,480 --> 00:10:58,800 Speaker 1: she essentially was agreeing to serve as their slave for 186 00:10:59,320 --> 00:11:02,760 Speaker 1: have her long we're gonna be alive for and well, 187 00:11:02,960 --> 00:11:05,680 Speaker 1: that of course was not agreeable to George Washington, so 188 00:11:05,679 --> 00:11:07,640 Speaker 1: he hatched another plan with his nephew, and he was 189 00:11:07,679 --> 00:11:10,520 Speaker 1: gonna kidnap her, but luckily for her, the locals tipped 190 00:11:10,520 --> 00:11:13,040 Speaker 1: her off and she got away. Grape Vine worked finally 191 00:11:13,120 --> 00:11:15,959 Speaker 1: for once. Yeah, but he never stopped trying to get her, 192 00:11:16,000 --> 00:11:18,080 Speaker 1: and he wanted to come for her children too, because 193 00:11:18,120 --> 00:11:21,080 Speaker 1: even though Stains her husband was a freeman, the children 194 00:11:21,120 --> 00:11:23,600 Speaker 1: had with only legally belonged to the Washington So by 195 00:11:23,640 --> 00:11:26,120 Speaker 1: getting her he could get her three children as well. 196 00:11:26,120 --> 00:11:30,520 Speaker 1: He didn't become George Washington, the general that saved America 197 00:11:30,679 --> 00:11:34,360 Speaker 1: from the British by giving up. He was always going 198 00:11:34,400 --> 00:11:36,880 Speaker 1: to come for her. That's her, you know, he was 199 00:11:36,920 --> 00:11:40,640 Speaker 1: his property to her. I mean, she was no one. 200 00:11:41,240 --> 00:11:43,200 Speaker 1: But we got to give a shout out to the 201 00:11:43,280 --> 00:11:47,200 Speaker 1: underground Grapevine finally working for a sister. You know, they 202 00:11:47,240 --> 00:11:51,640 Speaker 1: helped her escape. Again, She's being watched, she's being pursued, 203 00:11:51,760 --> 00:11:55,080 Speaker 1: she's on the run. I mean, only's white folks keep 204 00:11:55,120 --> 00:11:57,560 Speaker 1: popping up and saying we own you your hours, We're 205 00:11:57,559 --> 00:11:59,760 Speaker 1: gonna pursue you and find ways to pursue you over 206 00:12:00,040 --> 00:12:03,080 Speaker 1: yind you that we still own you Black folks. I 207 00:12:03,120 --> 00:12:05,720 Speaker 1: promise you feel that today. I mean, we are just 208 00:12:05,880 --> 00:12:11,040 Speaker 1: surveilled all the time, under surveillance, and it's astonishing and 209 00:12:11,120 --> 00:12:14,840 Speaker 1: it's manifested in just different ways. You heard that young 210 00:12:14,960 --> 00:12:18,080 Speaker 1: black man in Texas, Rodney Reese, he's walking home from work, 211 00:12:18,120 --> 00:12:21,440 Speaker 1: Whitney crazy story. Yeah, well he was arrested because he 212 00:12:21,480 --> 00:12:23,520 Speaker 1: was walking in the street. Now this is during a 213 00:12:23,559 --> 00:12:27,760 Speaker 1: massive climate catastrophe. The police had time to do that, 214 00:12:28,160 --> 00:12:30,240 Speaker 1: to arrest a young man. He had his mask on. 215 00:12:30,280 --> 00:12:34,320 Speaker 1: He's balking home from Walmart, minding his own business. But 216 00:12:34,920 --> 00:12:38,720 Speaker 1: their business has always been to undermine our business, to 217 00:12:38,840 --> 00:12:41,320 Speaker 1: watch us, to pursue us. And you know, I have 218 00:12:41,400 --> 00:12:44,760 Speaker 1: friends who right now say they feel surveilled through zoom 219 00:12:44,840 --> 00:12:48,000 Speaker 1: and claim they have to justify their whereabouts even under quarantine, 220 00:12:48,040 --> 00:12:50,040 Speaker 1: like oh where you ad you know, and they don't 221 00:12:50,080 --> 00:12:52,520 Speaker 1: like doing that. I mean, everything is connected, you know, 222 00:12:52,640 --> 00:12:56,559 Speaker 1: the will turns. It's interesting Erica. Also, what we see 223 00:12:56,640 --> 00:12:59,320 Speaker 1: with the storytelling. One of the things that white people 224 00:12:59,320 --> 00:13:01,559 Speaker 1: have always done is they've been able to tell stories 225 00:13:01,600 --> 00:13:05,920 Speaker 1: about themselves because they didn't have They could always deny 226 00:13:06,040 --> 00:13:08,880 Speaker 1: the evidence. There was like plausible deniability. And what's happening 227 00:13:08,880 --> 00:13:10,440 Speaker 1: with all these things like that, like you know, talking 228 00:13:10,440 --> 00:13:12,720 Speaker 1: about Rodney Reaess and some of these other stories, is 229 00:13:12,720 --> 00:13:14,920 Speaker 1: that there's actually evidence now that can't there. With these 230 00:13:14,960 --> 00:13:18,600 Speaker 1: bodycams on the police, with the cell phones people are carrying, 231 00:13:18,840 --> 00:13:21,600 Speaker 1: they're now showing the story and white people are forced 232 00:13:21,640 --> 00:13:24,559 Speaker 1: to watch this new story and reevaluate the context of 233 00:13:24,559 --> 00:13:27,240 Speaker 1: how they're seeing things. And you know, this is what 234 00:13:27,280 --> 00:13:29,679 Speaker 1: we're learning. There's what we're talking about, right, is that 235 00:13:29,720 --> 00:13:32,360 Speaker 1: the stories we tell ourselves about America, as you call it, 236 00:13:32,440 --> 00:13:36,000 Speaker 1: America the Beautiful, is that things are always a little 237 00:13:36,000 --> 00:13:38,880 Speaker 1: more complicated, a little darker than we'd like to admit, 238 00:13:39,080 --> 00:13:41,120 Speaker 1: not just a little whitney. Come on, they're a lot 239 00:13:41,240 --> 00:13:44,400 Speaker 1: darker and they're very complicated. You know, you're doing too 240 00:13:44,480 --> 00:13:47,520 Speaker 1: much little stuff that's minimizing. It's not little, it's a 241 00:13:47,600 --> 00:13:52,079 Speaker 1: very it's a lot complicated, Yes, a lot more complicated. Continue. 242 00:13:52,280 --> 00:13:54,559 Speaker 1: The other thing we've been talking about, how this strand 243 00:13:54,760 --> 00:13:58,000 Speaker 1: of slavery, the sort of strand of horror that sort 244 00:13:58,000 --> 00:14:00,600 Speaker 1: of permeates so many of these stories that's not called out. 245 00:14:00,880 --> 00:14:05,560 Speaker 1: I think I think that reparations include a storytelling component, 246 00:14:05,760 --> 00:14:08,920 Speaker 1: a component where we retell our stories and we people 247 00:14:08,960 --> 00:14:11,520 Speaker 1: have to relearn history and learn the full story so 248 00:14:11,600 --> 00:14:15,160 Speaker 1: Americans have a true understanding of their history. So in 249 00:14:15,200 --> 00:14:17,720 Speaker 1: the full story of Washington, you know, Mr I cannot 250 00:14:17,720 --> 00:14:20,640 Speaker 1: tell a lie, and who was celebrated for freeing his slaves. 251 00:14:20,680 --> 00:14:23,960 Speaker 1: After his death, he pursued a young black woman who's 252 00:14:24,080 --> 00:14:27,280 Speaker 1: only crime what she wanted to seek, the same freedom 253 00:14:27,360 --> 00:14:29,720 Speaker 1: that he had spent decades fighting for. You know, it's 254 00:14:29,720 --> 00:14:32,760 Speaker 1: funny that guy Whipple who sent to actually try and 255 00:14:32,800 --> 00:14:35,440 Speaker 1: convince her to come back. He wrote to Washington telling 256 00:14:35,480 --> 00:14:38,240 Speaker 1: him quote, a thirst for freedom had been her only 257 00:14:38,320 --> 00:14:42,280 Speaker 1: motive for absconding. And this is how you know, the 258 00:14:42,320 --> 00:14:44,960 Speaker 1: founder of our country, the father of our country, responded, 259 00:14:45,000 --> 00:14:48,040 Speaker 1: which is pretty depressing. I regret that the attempt you 260 00:14:48,120 --> 00:14:51,560 Speaker 1: made to restore the girl should have been attended with 261 00:14:51,600 --> 00:14:55,520 Speaker 1: so little success to reward unfaithfulness. This was about her 262 00:14:55,560 --> 00:14:58,840 Speaker 1: asking to be freed out of death with a premature preference, 263 00:14:59,240 --> 00:15:02,880 Speaker 1: thereby connect beforehand the minds of all her fellow servants, who, 264 00:15:02,880 --> 00:15:06,400 Speaker 1: by their steady achievements, are far more deserving than herself 265 00:15:06,400 --> 00:15:11,480 Speaker 1: of favor. So what he's saying is that only people 266 00:15:11,480 --> 00:15:14,640 Speaker 1: who submit to bondage willingly are deserving your freedom. Anybody 267 00:15:14,640 --> 00:15:17,160 Speaker 1: who has the temerity to try and take freedom for 268 00:15:17,200 --> 00:15:22,720 Speaker 1: theirselves like he did, well they should forget about it. Yeah, well, 269 00:15:22,760 --> 00:15:24,720 Speaker 1: you know, the father of our country is the father 270 00:15:24,840 --> 00:15:29,120 Speaker 1: of our suffering, the father of our bondage, the father 271 00:15:29,240 --> 00:15:33,280 Speaker 1: of tremendous evil. And again, you know, And if you 272 00:15:33,360 --> 00:15:35,080 Speaker 1: just flip the script a little bit and see it 273 00:15:35,160 --> 00:15:38,880 Speaker 1: from the Africans point of view, he's he's worse than Hitler. 274 00:15:39,440 --> 00:15:45,360 Speaker 1: He's setting up a country to be independent but self 275 00:15:45,400 --> 00:15:50,920 Speaker 1: supportive of the biggest holocaust in world history. So let's 276 00:15:50,960 --> 00:15:53,920 Speaker 1: get that straight. Number one. But I think we should 277 00:15:54,000 --> 00:15:57,000 Speaker 1: move on because holl is this is cute, and I 278 00:15:57,120 --> 00:15:59,640 Speaker 1: like thinking about, you know, old jobs that I have 279 00:16:00,120 --> 00:16:02,640 Speaker 1: and I really really do despite that, I still will 280 00:16:02,880 --> 00:16:04,960 Speaker 1: chair us the time I had on there, and you 281 00:16:05,000 --> 00:16:07,240 Speaker 1: know what it meant for me to be chosen to 282 00:16:07,320 --> 00:16:09,160 Speaker 1: be on a series like that, because it was a 283 00:16:09,160 --> 00:16:12,160 Speaker 1: big deal and moved me forward. But let's move on, 284 00:16:12,200 --> 00:16:15,320 Speaker 1: because only just one slave story in a long history 285 00:16:15,320 --> 00:16:16,840 Speaker 1: of slavey, and we got a hall ask if we're 286 00:16:16,840 --> 00:16:20,720 Speaker 1: going to get through it. So this woman, she's got 287 00:16:20,720 --> 00:16:23,920 Speaker 1: a very interesting history and has been telling the truth 288 00:16:24,480 --> 00:16:27,640 Speaker 1: and putting it out there. Her family was an owner 289 00:16:27,680 --> 00:16:32,120 Speaker 1: of slaves, a white woman named Brown. My father would 290 00:16:32,200 --> 00:16:35,520 Speaker 1: whisper when he was talking about black people, and there 291 00:16:35,600 --> 00:16:39,000 Speaker 1: was just a message that came through that whisper that 292 00:16:39,160 --> 00:16:41,920 Speaker 1: was we have to be very carefully and we can't 293 00:16:41,960 --> 00:16:44,760 Speaker 1: talk about this much. So it wasn't that he was 294 00:16:44,800 --> 00:16:49,200 Speaker 1: saying anything overtly racist or anything like that, but just 295 00:16:49,280 --> 00:16:53,000 Speaker 1: to sort of like tread lightly, kind of feeling that 296 00:16:53,240 --> 00:16:58,320 Speaker 1: pervaded the low voice. My name is Katrina Brown, and 297 00:16:58,640 --> 00:17:02,920 Speaker 1: my life revolves primarily around my discovery that my ancestors 298 00:17:02,920 --> 00:17:06,919 Speaker 1: were the largest slave trading family in US history. It 299 00:17:07,040 --> 00:17:10,440 Speaker 1: was just complete cognitive dissonance the idea that they could 300 00:17:10,440 --> 00:17:12,720 Speaker 1: have been slave traders, so the idea that I came 301 00:17:12,800 --> 00:17:17,000 Speaker 1: from a family of ministers and academics, and like my 302 00:17:17,160 --> 00:17:21,600 Speaker 1: grandfather was a philosophy professor, my other grandfather was a minister, 303 00:17:22,480 --> 00:17:27,359 Speaker 1: So there was some pride around not being in money 304 00:17:27,400 --> 00:17:31,639 Speaker 1: making occupations but being in more service the betterment of 305 00:17:31,640 --> 00:17:36,360 Speaker 1: mankind type occupations. So no one realized that the Dwolves 306 00:17:36,400 --> 00:17:40,600 Speaker 1: were basically the largest slave trading family in US history. 307 00:17:41,240 --> 00:17:45,600 Speaker 1: So statistically they brought more Africans on their ships than 308 00:17:45,800 --> 00:17:51,000 Speaker 1: any other family north or south. So a huge fortune 309 00:17:51,040 --> 00:17:54,400 Speaker 1: was amassed from all of this that was pretty much 310 00:17:54,560 --> 00:17:58,720 Speaker 1: squandered by a couple of generations later. We wouldn't be 311 00:17:58,720 --> 00:18:01,320 Speaker 1: able to say we inherited my directly from the slave trade, 312 00:18:01,359 --> 00:18:04,680 Speaker 1: but it's really obvious to me that we have been 313 00:18:04,720 --> 00:18:08,440 Speaker 1: in the elite ever since, and it fits the pattern 314 00:18:08,480 --> 00:18:12,040 Speaker 1: where once you're in the elite, you marry other elite families. 315 00:18:12,040 --> 00:18:16,159 Speaker 1: So I'm like super aware of the class privilege that 316 00:18:16,280 --> 00:18:19,520 Speaker 1: has remained even if we're not at like the uber 317 00:18:19,680 --> 00:18:24,360 Speaker 1: rich level, and I'm super aware of how much social 318 00:18:24,400 --> 00:18:27,359 Speaker 1: capital I have. So we've gone to a lot of 319 00:18:27,400 --> 00:18:31,320 Speaker 1: Ivy League schools, private schools, you know. So I've had 320 00:18:31,600 --> 00:18:35,760 Speaker 1: just the best education, and that's a pattern in the family. 321 00:18:35,880 --> 00:18:40,280 Speaker 1: So just extremely aware of how much we were set 322 00:18:40,359 --> 00:18:42,959 Speaker 1: up to succeed basically, and to be able to go 323 00:18:43,000 --> 00:18:47,280 Speaker 1: into the professions of our choosing, etcetera, etcetera. Embarrassing might 324 00:18:47,320 --> 00:18:50,000 Speaker 1: sound like too small of a word, but it's just 325 00:18:50,200 --> 00:18:54,680 Speaker 1: embarrassing to admit the ways in which the cover up manifested, 326 00:18:54,920 --> 00:18:58,639 Speaker 1: you know what I mean. It's so mortifying still, Like 327 00:18:58,760 --> 00:19:01,000 Speaker 1: can I even say this that it was being trivialized? 328 00:19:01,000 --> 00:19:03,720 Speaker 1: How could it have been trivialized, of all things to trivialize. 329 00:19:04,240 --> 00:19:07,320 Speaker 1: But there was the kind of party line, shall we 330 00:19:07,359 --> 00:19:13,320 Speaker 1: call it was about referring to them as pirates, scally wags, 331 00:19:14,119 --> 00:19:16,359 Speaker 1: boys will be boys, you know. That was kind of 332 00:19:16,359 --> 00:19:20,960 Speaker 1: the energy around it, like a dismissive like those back then, 333 00:19:21,080 --> 00:19:23,400 Speaker 1: those you know, that's what people did back then, and 334 00:19:23,720 --> 00:19:27,560 Speaker 1: those wrapped scallions. You know, there's a way in which, 335 00:19:27,880 --> 00:19:30,959 Speaker 1: despite working on this for twenty five years, it's still 336 00:19:31,000 --> 00:19:34,760 Speaker 1: too shocking to even contemplate. There's still too much nous 337 00:19:34,880 --> 00:19:38,880 Speaker 1: to it that operates within my psyche. I had a 338 00:19:38,920 --> 00:19:43,600 Speaker 1: cousin who shared with me early on she said, I 339 00:19:43,640 --> 00:19:46,720 Speaker 1: assumed that if it was the Dewolf's and it was 340 00:19:46,800 --> 00:19:49,919 Speaker 1: the slave trade, it must have been a polite slave trade. 341 00:19:50,600 --> 00:19:52,560 Speaker 1: And then she of course laughed at herself because she 342 00:19:52,640 --> 00:19:55,160 Speaker 1: was like, of course, it wasn't a polite slave trade. 343 00:19:55,200 --> 00:19:57,639 Speaker 1: There's no such thing as a polite slave trade. But 344 00:19:57,760 --> 00:20:00,359 Speaker 1: it was by way of saying, like, we're good. People 345 00:20:00,400 --> 00:20:02,800 Speaker 1: were nice, people were polite, right, That's who we are. 346 00:20:03,280 --> 00:20:04,960 Speaker 1: So if we did it, we must have done it 347 00:20:05,000 --> 00:20:08,240 Speaker 1: in a polite manner. So you have caught me in 348 00:20:08,280 --> 00:20:11,879 Speaker 1: the act of manifesting that tendency to minimize and to 349 00:20:12,240 --> 00:20:17,040 Speaker 1: understate it, because to state it baldly as it is 350 00:20:17,040 --> 00:20:20,399 Speaker 1: is just still to me so upsetting. So if I 351 00:20:20,440 --> 00:20:23,560 Speaker 1: were doing it, do over, I would say, they purchased 352 00:20:23,640 --> 00:20:28,840 Speaker 1: human beings who had been kidnapped by force, and we're 353 00:20:28,920 --> 00:20:32,760 Speaker 1: in a complete and utter state of terror. And it 354 00:20:32,840 --> 00:20:36,480 Speaker 1: was the most horrific type of circumstance one could possibly imagine. 355 00:20:36,600 --> 00:20:39,399 Speaker 1: And my ancestors did it over and over and over again. 356 00:20:39,600 --> 00:20:42,680 Speaker 1: And as my cousin Tom said, they must have known 357 00:20:42,720 --> 00:20:44,359 Speaker 1: it was evil. How could you not when you were 358 00:20:44,359 --> 00:20:48,160 Speaker 1: hearing people screaming in the holds below and yet they 359 00:20:48,200 --> 00:20:52,399 Speaker 1: somehow told themselves stories to justify that this was okay. 360 00:20:52,600 --> 00:21:01,400 Speaker 1: And their blood runs in me rascals in scallywags, that's 361 00:21:01,400 --> 00:21:04,600 Speaker 1: another way to put it. Uh yeah, Or at least 362 00:21:04,600 --> 00:21:07,439 Speaker 1: she's admitting that her family history had been sanitized, like 363 00:21:07,520 --> 00:21:12,639 Speaker 1: George Washington. There's a pattern that develops very clearly. What 364 00:21:12,720 --> 00:21:16,359 Speaker 1: a brutal system though, right? I mean, it makes me 365 00:21:16,400 --> 00:21:20,040 Speaker 1: wonder just karma exists. I'm not mean spirited, Whitney, I 366 00:21:20,040 --> 00:21:22,760 Speaker 1: don't want you to think that. But has this knowledge 367 00:21:23,720 --> 00:21:28,560 Speaker 1: been brutal for Katrina Brown's family because they've prospered, they've 368 00:21:28,600 --> 00:21:31,520 Speaker 1: done well. I mean, are the sins of the father 369 00:21:31,720 --> 00:21:35,600 Speaker 1: really visited upon the sun inside of the family? What 370 00:21:35,640 --> 00:21:37,399 Speaker 1: do they feel? But she's certainly trying to bear the 371 00:21:37,440 --> 00:21:40,840 Speaker 1: weight and atone for that evil legacy. But I don't know. 372 00:21:40,880 --> 00:21:43,199 Speaker 1: Maybe white folks, you know, in in your DNA, it 373 00:21:43,240 --> 00:21:45,600 Speaker 1: isn't encoded the same way that it is for the 374 00:21:45,600 --> 00:21:48,840 Speaker 1: descendants of slaves. But I'll keep looking for signs of life. 375 00:21:49,160 --> 00:21:52,560 Speaker 1: Maybe it's a cosmic curse, Whitney, that's cast upon your 376 00:21:52,560 --> 00:21:56,679 Speaker 1: people that will always keep most whites at arm's length 377 00:21:57,040 --> 00:22:00,760 Speaker 1: with their reckoning of slavery. Yeah. I mean it may 378 00:22:00,960 --> 00:22:02,680 Speaker 1: you may have that, but it's working for you now, 379 00:22:02,720 --> 00:22:06,080 Speaker 1: but it will not stop nemesis. If we're talking about storytelling, 380 00:22:06,400 --> 00:22:10,320 Speaker 1: Nemesis is on your ass, no doubt. I think the 381 00:22:10,359 --> 00:22:12,440 Speaker 1: only way to stop at Erica's for wet Americans to 382 00:22:12,520 --> 00:22:15,960 Speaker 1: fully acknowledge their legacy. They have to accept their history 383 00:22:15,960 --> 00:22:17,919 Speaker 1: if they want to live as moral humans. That's kind 384 00:22:17,920 --> 00:22:20,640 Speaker 1: of what I think. And I think that any sentient 385 00:22:20,720 --> 00:22:23,479 Speaker 1: white person with the slightest bit of self reflection has 386 00:22:23,520 --> 00:22:27,399 Speaker 1: to grapple with us. You know, we white people have 387 00:22:27,440 --> 00:22:31,160 Speaker 1: been the dominant storytellers for so long, and we could 388 00:22:31,400 --> 00:22:34,119 Speaker 1: use tools to lie the necessary facts, or we'd use 389 00:22:34,200 --> 00:22:36,800 Speaker 1: minimizing language to create a moral space for ourselves in 390 00:22:36,800 --> 00:22:39,560 Speaker 1: a story. We know that in our hearts is immral. 391 00:22:40,560 --> 00:22:43,280 Speaker 1: And I'm gonna get a little fan boy here when 392 00:22:43,320 --> 00:22:45,840 Speaker 1: I talk about Edward Baptist. He wrote a book called 393 00:22:45,840 --> 00:22:47,520 Speaker 1: The Half Has Never Been Told that I think all 394 00:22:47,520 --> 00:22:49,800 Speaker 1: white people should read, and I'm gonna paraphrase him here, 395 00:22:50,240 --> 00:22:53,240 Speaker 1: and he says something like historians have for years to 396 00:22:53,320 --> 00:22:57,000 Speaker 1: use minimizing language about the true nature of the slave system. 397 00:22:57,160 --> 00:23:01,200 Speaker 1: They talk about discipline, quote, and punishment as if there 398 00:23:01,200 --> 00:23:03,960 Speaker 1: were some logical basis for the system of slavery, rather 399 00:23:03,960 --> 00:23:07,480 Speaker 1: than simply naming it for what it was, a super 400 00:23:07,640 --> 00:23:12,240 Speaker 1: profitable economic system. Who lowest gear was torture. A man 401 00:23:12,320 --> 00:23:16,159 Speaker 1: named Henry Clay, named after the almost president, Secretary of 402 00:23:16,200 --> 00:23:19,720 Speaker 1: State senator from Kentucky. Henry Clay, who had been born 403 00:23:19,800 --> 00:23:23,720 Speaker 1: in North Carolina and then as a young adult sold 404 00:23:23,760 --> 00:23:28,320 Speaker 1: to Louisiana, talks about the enslavery who had he was 405 00:23:28,320 --> 00:23:31,240 Speaker 1: owned by, who had a whipping machine, and so when 406 00:23:31,280 --> 00:23:33,960 Speaker 1: somebody didn't do their work at the speed in the 407 00:23:34,000 --> 00:23:36,960 Speaker 1: pace that the slave owner thought was appropriate, they'd be 408 00:23:37,000 --> 00:23:40,080 Speaker 1: tied down on the whipping machine and somebody would crank 409 00:23:40,080 --> 00:23:42,320 Speaker 1: a handle and that would turn a wheel which had 410 00:23:42,359 --> 00:23:44,800 Speaker 1: a bunch of whips attached to it, and it would 411 00:23:44,800 --> 00:23:46,760 Speaker 1: whip the person who was tied down on the bench 412 00:23:46,800 --> 00:23:49,160 Speaker 1: that was part of the machine. I read this story 413 00:23:49,200 --> 00:23:51,720 Speaker 1: and I said, you know, this is working on a 414 00:23:51,760 --> 00:23:54,679 Speaker 1: couple of different levels here, right, So it's working on 415 00:23:54,720 --> 00:23:57,280 Speaker 1: a level for Henry Clay and that he may or 416 00:23:57,320 --> 00:24:01,000 Speaker 1: may not have actually seen this thing, right, But it's 417 00:24:01,040 --> 00:24:03,320 Speaker 1: also working on a level that I think he probably 418 00:24:03,600 --> 00:24:07,159 Speaker 1: intended as a metaphor. Right, This is a metaphor for 419 00:24:07,440 --> 00:24:12,280 Speaker 1: the system of labor. En slavery itself didn't do the 420 00:24:12,320 --> 00:24:15,120 Speaker 1: amount of labor that you were supposed to do. Right, 421 00:24:15,200 --> 00:24:18,720 Speaker 1: If you refuse to to consent to the extraction of 422 00:24:18,760 --> 00:24:22,120 Speaker 1: your labor, you were going to be tortured in a 423 00:24:22,160 --> 00:24:27,800 Speaker 1: predictable fashion, which of course inspires people to do whatever 424 00:24:27,840 --> 00:24:30,960 Speaker 1: they can to try to avoid that torture. So I 425 00:24:31,000 --> 00:24:33,760 Speaker 1: thought about that, and I said, you know, this also 426 00:24:33,920 --> 00:24:37,080 Speaker 1: is a a metaphor for the system on a couple 427 00:24:37,119 --> 00:24:39,199 Speaker 1: of levels as well, because there are a number of 428 00:24:39,200 --> 00:24:43,120 Speaker 1: different forces that are acting to push even en slavers 429 00:24:43,119 --> 00:24:46,240 Speaker 1: are getting pushed right to extract even more labor. Right, 430 00:24:46,560 --> 00:24:50,680 Speaker 1: the more cotton that gets produced relative to supply, the 431 00:24:50,720 --> 00:24:52,560 Speaker 1: lower the price is going to be. And so to 432 00:24:52,640 --> 00:24:56,080 Speaker 1: increase revenue, they are going to push. They're going to 433 00:24:56,200 --> 00:24:58,280 Speaker 1: turn the whipping machine, if you will. They are going 434 00:24:58,320 --> 00:25:02,119 Speaker 1: to push enslave people to work harder. And so the 435 00:25:02,119 --> 00:25:04,800 Speaker 1: whipping machine, if you think about it as a metaphor 436 00:25:04,840 --> 00:25:09,159 Speaker 1: for the system of measurement and torture with the intent 437 00:25:09,240 --> 00:25:13,520 Speaker 1: of increasing the amount of labor extracted, that whipping machine, right, 438 00:25:13,640 --> 00:25:17,880 Speaker 1: is geared into the other machines, the other relationships which 439 00:25:18,000 --> 00:25:22,199 Speaker 1: might call the political economy of the Atlantic world, of 440 00:25:22,840 --> 00:25:26,480 Speaker 1: the Anglo European world in the first half of the 441 00:25:26,560 --> 00:25:29,840 Speaker 1: nineteenth century all the way up until the Civil War, right, 442 00:25:29,880 --> 00:25:35,560 Speaker 1: Because if cotton prices go up, that's going to inspire 443 00:25:36,040 --> 00:25:39,840 Speaker 1: more people to buy more slaves increase their amount of production. 444 00:25:40,480 --> 00:25:43,960 Speaker 1: If cotton prices go down in many cases, will inspire 445 00:25:44,000 --> 00:25:46,199 Speaker 1: them to increase production as well, so they can increase 446 00:25:46,240 --> 00:25:49,480 Speaker 1: the total amount of revenue. So, no matter what happened, 447 00:25:49,960 --> 00:25:53,320 Speaker 1: the whipping machine was going to keep turning faster and 448 00:25:53,359 --> 00:25:56,080 Speaker 1: faster because it's tied into these other movements of supply 449 00:25:56,160 --> 00:26:01,960 Speaker 1: and demand. In the industrializing West, the whipping machine used 450 00:26:02,000 --> 00:26:06,719 Speaker 1: to inspire fear, used to improve productivity from other slaves 451 00:26:06,760 --> 00:26:10,320 Speaker 1: who want to avoid a similar fate. It reminds me 452 00:26:10,320 --> 00:26:12,760 Speaker 1: of stopping frisk It reminds me of three strikes, you're out. 453 00:26:13,640 --> 00:26:16,679 Speaker 1: I mean, it's all ways to keep a nigger in line. Really, 454 00:26:16,800 --> 00:26:20,200 Speaker 1: it's insidious. Well, you wanted to have white people talk 455 00:26:20,200 --> 00:26:23,840 Speaker 1: about slavery, how's your team doing? Well, that's not really 456 00:26:23,840 --> 00:26:25,280 Speaker 1: for me to answer, right, I think it's for you, 457 00:26:25,720 --> 00:26:28,160 Speaker 1: And I think that if we're gonna talk about slavery, 458 00:26:28,200 --> 00:26:32,320 Speaker 1: who better we created it, we perpetuated it, we benefited 459 00:26:32,400 --> 00:26:35,240 Speaker 1: from it. Don't you think we should also contribute to 460 00:26:35,280 --> 00:26:39,159 Speaker 1: explaining it accurately for a change, you know, as well 461 00:26:39,200 --> 00:26:42,160 Speaker 1: as work to help clean up the mess. And that's 462 00:26:42,520 --> 00:26:44,240 Speaker 1: you know. I think a lot about this Baldwin quote 463 00:26:44,240 --> 00:26:46,600 Speaker 1: about not being able to change anything you don't face. 464 00:26:46,800 --> 00:26:50,080 Speaker 1: So I think it's our obligation it is. I mean, look, 465 00:26:50,080 --> 00:26:53,000 Speaker 1: white people always rely on black people to lead the 466 00:26:53,080 --> 00:26:56,119 Speaker 1: racial conversations, and it gives them permission to lay in 467 00:26:56,119 --> 00:26:59,119 Speaker 1: the cut. But if you ignore it, it's self sabotage. 468 00:26:59,160 --> 00:27:02,440 Speaker 1: We see what happens racist a white construct fixed to 469 00:27:02,520 --> 00:27:06,159 Speaker 1: black people. Black people cannot save you all from destruction. 470 00:27:06,840 --> 00:27:10,520 Speaker 1: You know, how can you save a destroyer? White people 471 00:27:10,560 --> 00:27:12,480 Speaker 1: have to get it there, tearing up their own village 472 00:27:12,520 --> 00:27:16,000 Speaker 1: by denying that they're not only the source of the boogeyman, 473 00:27:16,520 --> 00:27:27,600 Speaker 1: they are the boogeyman. Boom whin, Sorry, Whitney. I know 474 00:27:27,720 --> 00:27:30,240 Speaker 1: I tried. I tried to let you use all white 475 00:27:30,320 --> 00:27:33,120 Speaker 1: voices to tell the story of the history of slavery, 476 00:27:33,119 --> 00:27:35,959 Speaker 1: but it just didn't feel right. So it's time for 477 00:27:35,960 --> 00:27:40,120 Speaker 1: me Errikey to disrupt the disruptor. I gotta figure out 478 00:27:40,119 --> 00:27:43,480 Speaker 1: how though you actually think that there should be a 479 00:27:43,480 --> 00:27:46,080 Speaker 1: hotline for black people. When we need to talk to 480 00:27:46,160 --> 00:27:49,320 Speaker 1: white people about difficult topics that have to do with 481 00:27:49,400 --> 00:27:53,160 Speaker 1: black people, we call the hotline and it would immediately 482 00:27:53,200 --> 00:27:55,800 Speaker 1: patch us through to somebody that can help the rest 483 00:27:55,840 --> 00:27:58,840 Speaker 1: of us sort this stuff out. I know Mega Marcot 484 00:27:58,840 --> 00:28:00,640 Speaker 1: where she had that hotline with. She was hanging out 485 00:28:00,640 --> 00:28:05,399 Speaker 1: with those royals and Buckingham Palace. I'm lucky because I 486 00:28:05,400 --> 00:28:07,200 Speaker 1: have friends who have friends who have friends who can 487 00:28:07,200 --> 00:28:09,560 Speaker 1: help me. So let's do this. Like who wants to 488 00:28:09,560 --> 00:28:11,679 Speaker 1: be a millionaire? I'm gonna call a friend. Who am 489 00:28:11,720 --> 00:28:14,240 Speaker 1: I gonna call? Oh? I know, I know, I know 490 00:28:14,240 --> 00:28:17,000 Speaker 1: who to call. This be all he's perfect, he's perfect. 491 00:28:17,080 --> 00:28:20,399 Speaker 1: Let me do this. Come on, come on, please be in. 492 00:28:21,240 --> 00:28:24,440 Speaker 1: He's an o G, raised by o G, was born 493 00:28:24,480 --> 00:28:27,040 Speaker 1: a print of the movement and raised by black kings. 494 00:28:27,160 --> 00:28:30,080 Speaker 1: And this man is in the struggle. He's our equivalent 495 00:28:30,280 --> 00:28:34,240 Speaker 1: of American royalty. Yeah, I know he can figure this out. 496 00:28:35,280 --> 00:28:37,560 Speaker 1: Reverend Owl, thank you so much for this. I know 497 00:28:37,680 --> 00:28:40,200 Speaker 1: you are very busy man, and I admire you so much. 498 00:28:40,280 --> 00:28:45,280 Speaker 1: I really appreciate your time. Asked to be with you, Erica, 499 00:28:45,400 --> 00:28:47,400 Speaker 1: No problem, and I have a lot of respect for 500 00:28:47,480 --> 00:28:49,840 Speaker 1: you down through the years. Oh thank you, sir. I 501 00:28:49,880 --> 00:28:53,640 Speaker 1: appreciate that. I don't need to tell you that everywhere 502 00:28:53,680 --> 00:28:57,760 Speaker 1: we go there are white voices who author black stories, 503 00:28:57,800 --> 00:28:59,840 Speaker 1: and they've done it throughout the years, whether it's slave 504 00:29:00,040 --> 00:29:03,520 Speaker 1: narratives and those types of things. Why do you think 505 00:29:03,800 --> 00:29:06,480 Speaker 1: that white people feel compelled to take the lead and 506 00:29:06,520 --> 00:29:10,880 Speaker 1: sometimes take over telling stories and narratives about black folks. 507 00:29:10,880 --> 00:29:16,960 Speaker 1: What it comes down to is white supremacy. They take 508 00:29:17,200 --> 00:29:20,480 Speaker 1: ownership and some of the the cucriminal, but it's there 509 00:29:20,960 --> 00:29:24,760 Speaker 1: that they are more qualified to tell us our story 510 00:29:24,840 --> 00:29:28,200 Speaker 1: and others our story than we are ourselves. I was 511 00:29:28,240 --> 00:29:32,120 Speaker 1: reading this book on Frederick Douglas and how when Frederick 512 00:29:32,200 --> 00:29:35,840 Speaker 1: Douglas was the runaway slave workers way from New York 513 00:29:35,880 --> 00:29:40,360 Speaker 1: to New England, and there was buzz around the abolitionists 514 00:29:40,760 --> 00:29:46,840 Speaker 1: world about this well built slave that was bright, could read, 515 00:29:47,120 --> 00:29:50,160 Speaker 1: and that we could use him to go out there 516 00:29:50,160 --> 00:29:53,200 Speaker 1: and push our cars. And the white New Englanders who 517 00:29:53,240 --> 00:29:58,120 Speaker 1: were being abolitionist movement brought him in and they started 518 00:29:58,160 --> 00:30:02,160 Speaker 1: bringing them around the various allemages, and then he started speaking, 519 00:30:02,200 --> 00:30:03,760 Speaker 1: and they were like no, no, no, no, we don't 520 00:30:03,760 --> 00:30:05,760 Speaker 1: need you to talk. We just need you to be there, 521 00:30:05,880 --> 00:30:09,120 Speaker 1: be the slave. We'll do the talking. It's like we 522 00:30:10,080 --> 00:30:14,920 Speaker 1: are really not saying you're equal. We sympathize with y'all, 523 00:30:15,200 --> 00:30:17,480 Speaker 1: but let us do the talking. Let let us write 524 00:30:17,480 --> 00:30:20,840 Speaker 1: out the screenplay. Let us tell the black experience, Oh no, 525 00:30:20,960 --> 00:30:24,840 Speaker 1: you're not ghetto enough. Come on, that's moneyed up, rather 526 00:30:24,960 --> 00:30:29,320 Speaker 1: than allowing us as equals to say, wait, manute, this 527 00:30:29,440 --> 00:30:32,800 Speaker 1: is our journey and we know our journey better than anybody. 528 00:30:33,160 --> 00:30:36,800 Speaker 1: And that is a form of white supremacy. I run 529 00:30:36,800 --> 00:30:40,000 Speaker 1: into it even in my civil rights political work, where 530 00:30:40,040 --> 00:30:44,240 Speaker 1: progressives feel that they can tell blacks how we deal 531 00:30:44,280 --> 00:30:47,240 Speaker 1: without suffering. Lady, we get you all ourselves. And I'm 532 00:30:47,240 --> 00:30:49,160 Speaker 1: not saying we shouldn't have allies. I'm not saying we 533 00:30:49,200 --> 00:30:52,320 Speaker 1: can't work with people, but you can't take ownership of 534 00:30:52,440 --> 00:30:56,600 Speaker 1: me and you. A person that was like a father 535 00:30:56,760 --> 00:31:00,520 Speaker 1: figure to be James Brown, and part of the problem 536 00:31:00,640 --> 00:31:04,040 Speaker 1: that I saw a first hand that he had is 537 00:31:04,080 --> 00:31:09,400 Speaker 1: that you actually had musical producers and presidents of record 538 00:31:09,440 --> 00:31:13,680 Speaker 1: companies that wanted to tell him how to do black music. Well, 539 00:31:13,720 --> 00:31:16,120 Speaker 1: you know, Mr Brown, that's a little too raw, that's 540 00:31:16,120 --> 00:31:19,200 Speaker 1: a little too why don't we kind of modify that 541 00:31:19,320 --> 00:31:21,920 Speaker 1: a little. And Jay was saying, maybe that's where I 542 00:31:21,960 --> 00:31:24,240 Speaker 1: got it from. You're gonna tell me how to be black. 543 00:31:24,320 --> 00:31:27,640 Speaker 1: You're gonna tell me what I'm doing. And that was 544 00:31:27,680 --> 00:31:29,960 Speaker 1: his fight, and he did not get some of the 545 00:31:30,080 --> 00:31:34,360 Speaker 1: things that other more quote mainstream black artists got till 546 00:31:34,480 --> 00:31:37,680 Speaker 1: later in light because they considered him to get up 547 00:31:38,240 --> 00:31:40,360 Speaker 1: and I'll never get Erica. In the last year of 548 00:31:40,360 --> 00:31:42,600 Speaker 1: his life, he said to me, he said, you know 549 00:31:42,680 --> 00:31:46,440 Speaker 1: what raver I said. What he said, The difference between 550 00:31:46,480 --> 00:31:51,240 Speaker 1: me and some artists is they wanted to go mainstream 551 00:31:51,920 --> 00:31:56,440 Speaker 1: for commercial and financial success. He says, I wanted to 552 00:31:56,480 --> 00:32:00,320 Speaker 1: make mainstream come black because I was not gonna be 553 00:32:00,520 --> 00:32:03,640 Speaker 1: me in order to make a few doubts. And that's 554 00:32:03,680 --> 00:32:05,720 Speaker 1: how I grew up an activism and what I do 555 00:32:05,760 --> 00:32:09,440 Speaker 1: immediate and a lot of people they will play whatever role, 556 00:32:09,560 --> 00:32:12,480 Speaker 1: not only on the screen on the set, they play 557 00:32:12,560 --> 00:32:14,720 Speaker 1: that role in the office and let other people write 558 00:32:14,800 --> 00:32:17,520 Speaker 1: their story to them, like we don't have enough sense 559 00:32:17,560 --> 00:32:19,800 Speaker 1: to know our own stories, to write our own story. 560 00:32:20,160 --> 00:32:23,880 Speaker 1: And we thank them for interpreting to us a journey 561 00:32:23,960 --> 00:32:27,240 Speaker 1: that we went through and know that they only are 562 00:32:27,280 --> 00:32:31,320 Speaker 1: guessing about that's I think where the rubber meets the 563 00:32:31,400 --> 00:32:34,960 Speaker 1: road is the exact storytelling that we tell ourselves. I 564 00:32:35,000 --> 00:32:38,240 Speaker 1: have a theory about Mr George Floyd. I believe that 565 00:32:38,280 --> 00:32:40,760 Speaker 1: he was killed because of the narrative in the white 566 00:32:41,080 --> 00:32:43,920 Speaker 1: officer's mind who told him that he was not only 567 00:32:43,960 --> 00:32:45,880 Speaker 1: able to do it, he would do it with impunity, 568 00:32:46,320 --> 00:32:48,680 Speaker 1: and he could do it in broad daylight. And that's 569 00:32:48,720 --> 00:32:51,719 Speaker 1: still were not better because as a white man, as 570 00:32:51,760 --> 00:32:55,160 Speaker 1: you say, white superiority, that narrative runs deep. What do 571 00:32:55,240 --> 00:32:58,560 Speaker 1: you say to that type of thinking and how it's 572 00:32:58,600 --> 00:33:02,240 Speaker 1: placed in the white of mind. I think that you 573 00:33:02,400 --> 00:33:06,200 Speaker 1: hit it right on the head. It's a bond sense 574 00:33:06,240 --> 00:33:11,360 Speaker 1: of entitlement, that of costs. I can put my knee 575 00:33:11,360 --> 00:33:14,560 Speaker 1: on the neck and uh, it might not be nice 576 00:33:14,640 --> 00:33:17,600 Speaker 1: to the family, but nothing's going to happen to because 577 00:33:17,600 --> 00:33:20,920 Speaker 1: I'm white and they are blacks. That's just the assumption, 578 00:33:21,560 --> 00:33:24,880 Speaker 1: which is why of walking to the pulpit to preach 579 00:33:25,240 --> 00:33:29,240 Speaker 1: the funeral of George Floyd. But halfway through the sermon, Erica, 580 00:33:29,840 --> 00:33:34,040 Speaker 1: it hit me why George Floyd resonated with so many 581 00:33:34,080 --> 00:33:36,600 Speaker 1: of us, Because we've gone through a lot of police 582 00:33:36,600 --> 00:33:40,800 Speaker 1: fatality before but the outporn was global, and it was 583 00:33:40,960 --> 00:33:45,000 Speaker 1: because the knee on his neck symbolized what all of 584 00:33:45,080 --> 00:33:48,320 Speaker 1: us have gone through. And that's what I preached about. 585 00:33:48,360 --> 00:33:51,920 Speaker 1: We would have been better in Hollywood and Halem if 586 00:33:52,000 --> 00:33:55,000 Speaker 1: y'all didn't put your knee on our neck, that knee 587 00:33:55,040 --> 00:33:59,680 Speaker 1: on our neck, that you would hold us down and 588 00:33:59,720 --> 00:34:02,840 Speaker 1: as because why we weren't rising, we were a rose 589 00:34:02,920 --> 00:34:05,040 Speaker 1: if you didn't have your knee on our net. And 590 00:34:05,080 --> 00:34:08,799 Speaker 1: when we saw that cops knee on George's neck, we 591 00:34:08,880 --> 00:34:11,839 Speaker 1: thought about what happened to our career, as our professions, 592 00:34:11,920 --> 00:34:15,200 Speaker 1: our families, because we've been fighting the knee on our 593 00:34:15,280 --> 00:34:18,959 Speaker 1: neck all of our lives, all of our existence since 594 00:34:19,000 --> 00:34:23,200 Speaker 1: we got here. And that is what George Floyd represented, 595 00:34:23,440 --> 00:34:26,320 Speaker 1: and that's why it resonated inside of us even so 596 00:34:26,520 --> 00:34:31,320 Speaker 1: consciously when we didn't understand why, well, we've been told 597 00:34:31,600 --> 00:34:34,520 Speaker 1: a version of ourselves that is stereotypical. I don't even 598 00:34:34,520 --> 00:34:36,360 Speaker 1: know if we know what a real black person looks 599 00:34:36,400 --> 00:34:39,080 Speaker 1: like half the time because it's been distorted, and we've 600 00:34:39,320 --> 00:34:42,759 Speaker 1: also accepted that distortion. What do we need to do 601 00:34:42,960 --> 00:34:46,800 Speaker 1: to return ourselves to some sort of narrative that starts 602 00:34:46,840 --> 00:34:48,800 Speaker 1: to not only tell our story, but tell our story 603 00:34:48,840 --> 00:34:53,040 Speaker 1: not through the Negro that was created beforehand. I think 604 00:34:53,120 --> 00:34:57,879 Speaker 1: we've gotta go back and discover who and what we are, 605 00:34:58,040 --> 00:35:01,600 Speaker 1: and that is manifested in different ways. We owe different tribes, 606 00:35:02,000 --> 00:35:04,960 Speaker 1: but that all of those were real. We've got to 607 00:35:05,040 --> 00:35:11,480 Speaker 1: claim who we are unapologetically, and then we must stand 608 00:35:11,719 --> 00:35:16,160 Speaker 1: and own that space and say that's non negotiable. And 609 00:35:16,400 --> 00:35:21,319 Speaker 1: anyone else from the outside that wants to interfere and 610 00:35:21,600 --> 00:35:25,960 Speaker 1: in many ways modify our story. We must tell our 611 00:35:26,000 --> 00:35:29,680 Speaker 1: community we are not patronize them or support them. We 612 00:35:30,000 --> 00:35:35,560 Speaker 1: can no longer allow ourselves to be interpreted by those 613 00:35:35,920 --> 00:35:39,880 Speaker 1: that do not understand us. And that's why I think 614 00:35:39,920 --> 00:35:43,719 Speaker 1: that we've got to start with our authenticity. If I've 615 00:35:43,760 --> 00:35:46,680 Speaker 1: got to be somebody else for you to accept me, 616 00:35:47,000 --> 00:35:50,839 Speaker 1: then I'm bowing the white supremacy. God made me. You 617 00:35:50,840 --> 00:35:53,359 Speaker 1: don't have to remake me. I will find the way 618 00:35:53,360 --> 00:35:55,799 Speaker 1: He made me. Just get out of my way, get 619 00:35:55,840 --> 00:36:02,160 Speaker 1: your need on my neck. That's the best hotline you 620 00:36:02,160 --> 00:36:06,839 Speaker 1: could ever have, straight to Reverend Shopton. But I need 621 00:36:06,840 --> 00:36:08,880 Speaker 1: to get back to Whitney. See what he's got in 622 00:36:08,960 --> 00:36:14,359 Speaker 1: store for me. Whin There's one more thing I want 623 00:36:14,400 --> 00:36:16,520 Speaker 1: to talk about when it comes to storytelling, Erica and 624 00:36:16,520 --> 00:36:21,520 Speaker 1: that's protagonists. You know, protagonists have names Adam Ishmael Lowman. Yes, 625 00:36:21,560 --> 00:36:24,160 Speaker 1: I know, they're all white men. Our names means something 626 00:36:24,200 --> 00:36:26,239 Speaker 1: and tell us something about the role of the hero 627 00:36:26,400 --> 00:36:30,560 Speaker 1: in the story. And you're My name's Erica. Alexander and 628 00:36:30,640 --> 00:36:33,799 Speaker 1: Doo mean very very different things. When I was growing up, 629 00:36:33,840 --> 00:36:35,239 Speaker 1: we had a book in our house called the Book 630 00:36:35,280 --> 00:36:38,320 Speaker 1: of Doo. This book cataloged various branches of our family, 631 00:36:38,360 --> 00:36:41,920 Speaker 1: going back to nine when a guy named Henry Dow 632 00:36:42,040 --> 00:36:44,520 Speaker 1: sailed here from England. You know, I was never that 633 00:36:44,560 --> 00:36:46,399 Speaker 1: interested in the book. It was big, had a lot 634 00:36:46,400 --> 00:36:49,120 Speaker 1: of charts and stuff, but it did have some value 635 00:36:49,120 --> 00:36:51,920 Speaker 1: to me in the sense that I kind of knew 636 00:36:52,200 --> 00:36:54,719 Speaker 1: where I came from in a very specific sense, like 637 00:36:54,760 --> 00:36:57,200 Speaker 1: who my ancestors were and how their stories flowed through 638 00:36:57,239 --> 00:36:59,799 Speaker 1: the history of our country. And I bring this up 639 00:36:59,800 --> 00:37:02,120 Speaker 1: because I thought about this the other day when you 640 00:37:02,160 --> 00:37:05,440 Speaker 1: were we were talking to our producer and you complimented 641 00:37:05,440 --> 00:37:08,200 Speaker 1: her on her name and she replied, that's my slave name. 642 00:37:09,239 --> 00:37:12,719 Speaker 1: And that phrase always brings me up short. It's so 643 00:37:12,800 --> 00:37:15,759 Speaker 1: direct into the point, and it's a hard reminder of 644 00:37:15,760 --> 00:37:19,000 Speaker 1: how different our histories are and how visible those histories 645 00:37:19,040 --> 00:37:23,680 Speaker 1: are in the most direct and gratidian ways. So thinking 646 00:37:23,680 --> 00:37:25,680 Speaker 1: about that, maybe want to ask you Eric about your 647 00:37:25,800 --> 00:37:28,560 Speaker 1: name Alexander. I wondered if you do it's origin and 648 00:37:28,600 --> 00:37:31,120 Speaker 1: how you felt connected to it. You know, I know 649 00:37:31,160 --> 00:37:35,240 Speaker 1: you know genealogy, but your name reflects a very different history, 650 00:37:35,239 --> 00:37:38,360 Speaker 1: and I wondered how you thought about it well with me. 651 00:37:38,640 --> 00:37:40,200 Speaker 1: First of all, I want to say that I think 652 00:37:40,239 --> 00:37:42,560 Speaker 1: it's really cool that you know who you are. It's 653 00:37:42,560 --> 00:37:46,400 Speaker 1: even some heavy stuff. It's a rare gift for anybody 654 00:37:46,440 --> 00:37:48,880 Speaker 1: to have a book like that, and I recommend you 655 00:37:48,880 --> 00:37:53,040 Speaker 1: spend more time appreciating that mighty Book of dow And 656 00:37:53,760 --> 00:37:56,719 Speaker 1: I'd like to see it too. Did y'all put any 657 00:37:56,760 --> 00:37:59,880 Speaker 1: of your bad deeds in it? You rascals and scaliwags 658 00:38:00,400 --> 00:38:04,160 Speaker 1: or worse? It's just just the good stuff. But listen, 659 00:38:04,200 --> 00:38:07,600 Speaker 1: You're yesterday contained seeds to your tomorrow, So it's no 660 00:38:07,680 --> 00:38:10,040 Speaker 1: shade to you. By the way, I can bet you 661 00:38:10,200 --> 00:38:13,319 Speaker 1: that what your family accomplished with all those centuries, and 662 00:38:13,320 --> 00:38:15,239 Speaker 1: I'm not saying they didn't work hard and sweat and 663 00:38:15,239 --> 00:38:17,080 Speaker 1: toil all that stuff in the Book of Down but 664 00:38:18,000 --> 00:38:21,000 Speaker 1: I know I accomplished in half a lifetime and on 665 00:38:21,040 --> 00:38:24,520 Speaker 1: a Google doc with the help of a series TV 666 00:38:26,200 --> 00:38:30,760 Speaker 1: in network you know presents. But the people who write 667 00:38:30,760 --> 00:38:33,239 Speaker 1: these things down and appreciate it and move it on, 668 00:38:33,280 --> 00:38:37,120 Speaker 1: they're seeking immortality. And I think I have already a 669 00:38:37,120 --> 00:38:40,960 Speaker 1: little piece of that. And it wasn't easy to get 670 00:38:40,960 --> 00:38:44,600 Speaker 1: because both my parents were orphans. And yes, DNA tells 671 00:38:44,640 --> 00:38:46,640 Speaker 1: the real story of who I am. I know I 672 00:38:46,680 --> 00:38:49,880 Speaker 1: have this blood from the Congo and from Ghana on 673 00:38:50,560 --> 00:38:54,440 Speaker 1: a few other places, but my real self is manifested 674 00:38:54,440 --> 00:38:57,239 Speaker 1: in real time. I I'm who I am right now, 675 00:38:58,040 --> 00:39:02,319 Speaker 1: And like many black people, I created myself from the 676 00:39:02,440 --> 00:39:04,920 Speaker 1: mud that was laid at my feet. But whatever parts 677 00:39:04,920 --> 00:39:07,920 Speaker 1: and pieces I could get, So no, if you want 678 00:39:07,960 --> 00:39:11,239 Speaker 1: to know, I don't care or know what white man 679 00:39:11,360 --> 00:39:14,960 Speaker 1: or woman gave my family its name, because it was 680 00:39:14,960 --> 00:39:18,640 Speaker 1: not meant to identify me, certainly not anybody who had 681 00:39:18,640 --> 00:39:22,400 Speaker 1: gotten that name. It was meant to disappear us a brand. 682 00:39:22,480 --> 00:39:25,359 Speaker 1: It's an ugly brand as far as I'm concerned, and 683 00:39:25,400 --> 00:39:28,080 Speaker 1: it's meant to lay claim to our family's destiny, and 684 00:39:28,160 --> 00:39:31,719 Speaker 1: it hasn't invested in our welfare or our human potential. 685 00:39:32,400 --> 00:39:36,600 Speaker 1: I can't quantify the weight of my enslaver's inherited name. 686 00:39:37,600 --> 00:39:41,800 Speaker 1: It's impossible. I just feel that the loss of having 687 00:39:42,040 --> 00:39:46,000 Speaker 1: to carry it while I accomplish the impossible. That's why 688 00:39:46,040 --> 00:39:49,279 Speaker 1: so many Black people change or alter and dispose of 689 00:39:49,320 --> 00:39:52,240 Speaker 1: their names. If you're talking about people like Muhammad Ali, 690 00:39:52,680 --> 00:39:55,560 Speaker 1: my friend Queen Latifa, L. L. Coo, J quest Love, 691 00:39:56,080 --> 00:40:00,719 Speaker 1: Malcolm X, Harry Tubman, my Angelou Stevie, wonder they they 692 00:40:00,760 --> 00:40:04,840 Speaker 1: gave themselves those names. We implant our intention inside of 693 00:40:04,880 --> 00:40:09,560 Speaker 1: them and and a rebirth happens. It creates space from it. 694 00:40:09,960 --> 00:40:13,680 Speaker 1: You know, in America, black people need an alter ego 695 00:40:13,800 --> 00:40:18,319 Speaker 1: to vanquish the evil that is around us. Now, after 696 00:40:18,400 --> 00:40:22,640 Speaker 1: having said all that, my name is Erica Rose Alexander, 697 00:40:23,400 --> 00:40:28,760 Speaker 1: and Alexander means protector of the people, and I shall 698 00:40:28,800 --> 00:40:32,560 Speaker 1: continue to endeavor in that pursuit. I was renamed princess 699 00:40:32,560 --> 00:40:34,719 Speaker 1: by the way twice in Africa by two different queen 700 00:40:34,760 --> 00:40:38,320 Speaker 1: mothers in two different countries, thirty years apart. That was 701 00:40:38,360 --> 00:40:42,239 Speaker 1: a powerful thing to go back and experience that. So 702 00:40:42,719 --> 00:40:46,000 Speaker 1: you should know that I am African royalty. But to 703 00:40:46,080 --> 00:40:48,600 Speaker 1: keep things casual, I give you permission Whitney Dow of 704 00:40:48,760 --> 00:40:52,120 Speaker 1: the Book of Doos to simply call me your highness 705 00:40:52,560 --> 00:41:00,880 Speaker 1: for the great it's your choice, and you're welcome next 706 00:41:00,880 --> 00:41:06,719 Speaker 1: time on reparations. The big payback. Slavery was eliminated in 707 00:41:06,800 --> 00:41:09,880 Speaker 1: eighteen sixty five around the passage of the thirteenth Amendment. 708 00:41:10,080 --> 00:41:13,040 Speaker 1: So people think that's history, that's a long time adult, 709 00:41:14,200 --> 00:41:17,120 Speaker 1: and why are we still talking about it. The attitude 710 00:41:17,160 --> 00:41:19,520 Speaker 1: is get over it, And so I think it's important 711 00:41:19,560 --> 00:41:22,759 Speaker 1: to restate some of those very pointed facts of brutality 712 00:41:22,880 --> 00:41:27,920 Speaker 1: in the inhumanity of slavery. Most of our education we 713 00:41:27,920 --> 00:41:33,040 Speaker 1: were deprived of really in depth understanding of slavery. It 714 00:41:33,160 --> 00:41:36,520 Speaker 1: wasn't in our schools. We were basically trying to overcome. 715 00:41:37,120 --> 00:41:39,879 Speaker 1: And I remember the slave narratives. I've read them here 716 00:41:39,920 --> 00:41:43,520 Speaker 1: and there in the recent years. And I remember the 717 00:41:43,560 --> 00:41:48,279 Speaker 1: writing of a slave woman to her husband he had 718 00:41:48,320 --> 00:41:52,520 Speaker 1: been sent to another plantation. She said, come quickly, because 719 00:41:52,600 --> 00:41:55,759 Speaker 1: I and your daughter are going to be sold tomorrow, 720 00:41:55,760 --> 00:41:58,880 Speaker 1: and your son will be sold on the block in 721 00:41:58,960 --> 00:42:02,360 Speaker 1: another day. Who could live like this? Is that not 722 00:42:02,520 --> 00:42:06,839 Speaker 1: worthy of a commission to study and to determine how 723 00:42:06,880 --> 00:42:09,600 Speaker 1: we can do better and how we can make amends. 724 00:42:10,280 --> 00:42:13,319 Speaker 1: How we can make the healing not only reflect on 725 00:42:13,360 --> 00:42:21,200 Speaker 1: African Americans, but all of America. This podcast is produced 726 00:42:21,239 --> 00:42:24,880 Speaker 1: by Eric Alexander ben Arnon in Whitney Down. The executive 727 00:42:24,880 --> 00:42:28,000 Speaker 1: producers are Charlemagne the God and Dolly s. Bishop. The 728 00:42:28,040 --> 00:42:31,319 Speaker 1: supervising producers Nicole Childers, and the lead producer is Devin 729 00:42:31,400 --> 00:42:35,320 Speaker 1: Mavock Robins. The producer writer Serres Castle, and the Associate 730 00:42:35,360 --> 00:42:38,680 Speaker 1: producer is Kevin Famm. With additional research and writing support 731 00:42:38,680 --> 00:42:42,239 Speaker 1: provided by Nile Blast. Original music by d J d 732 00:42:42,400 --> 00:42:51,719 Speaker 1: t P Reparations. The Big Payback as a production of 733 00:42:51,719 --> 00:42:54,840 Speaker 1: Color Farm Media, I Heart Radio and The Black Effect 734 00:42:54,920 --> 00:42:59,120 Speaker 1: Podcast Network in association with Best Case Studios. For more 735 00:42:59,200 --> 00:43:02,319 Speaker 1: podcasts from I Heart Radio, visit the I Heart Radio app, 736 00:43:02,480 --> 00:43:05,680 Speaker 1: Apple podcast, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.