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Speaker 1: Hey, everybody, Welcome to The Houndation's podcast. I'm your host,

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Speaker 1: Tony Peterson, and today's episode is all about training during

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Speaker 1: the off season and the tools we can all use

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Speaker 1: to encourage better progress with our dogs, no matter how

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Speaker 1: old they are. It's pretty easy to let a good

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Speaker 1: dog loaf around in the winter after a long hunting season,

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Speaker 1: but a better approach is to just keep training while

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Speaker 1: bird contacts and real world hunting experience can round a

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Speaker 1: dog out in a way that no training ever will.

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Speaker 1: There's no denying that the time spent working on skills

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Speaker 1: when you're not toting a shotgun around is extremely valuable.

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Speaker 1: This only gets more valuable when you understand what tools

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Speaker 1: to use and when, which is something that is a

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Speaker 1: bit more nuanced than it might seem on the surface,

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Speaker 1: and is also something I'm going to talk about right now.

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Speaker 1: Over in the white tail world, which is where I

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Speaker 1: spend most of my time, there's a common trend that

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Speaker 1: has kept the lights on in a lot of men

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Speaker 1: manufacturing facilities for a long time. It's the get rich

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Speaker 1: quick product mentality that promises big bucks with little effort. Unfortunately,

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Speaker 1: the big bucks it delivers are usually to the folks

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Speaker 1: selling the products and not the hunters looking for a

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Speaker 1: shoulder mount for their man cave. To get a deer

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Speaker 1: call to work, or a bottle of dope or a

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Speaker 1: decoy or whatever, you first have to know enough about

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Speaker 1: bucks to get within reasonable range of them. This is

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Speaker 1: where the disconnect comes in. Products promise to draw in

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Speaker 1: big bucks easily, but they won't. And really, if they

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Speaker 1: are going to work, you already have to figure out

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Speaker 1: how to get close to bucks first. Now, if you

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Speaker 1: can do that, you usually don't need a lot of

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Speaker 1: extra help. But if you do, being relatively close to

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Speaker 1: a relaxed buck in an environment in which he feels

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Speaker 1: safe goes a long way towards sealing the deal. There

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Speaker 1: is a parallel to this in the bird dog world,

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Speaker 1: and it really boils down to what training tools make

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Speaker 1: the most sense for your dog, and then how you'll

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Speaker 1: use them to map out training sessions in the best

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Speaker 1: way possible. Let me give you a quick example of

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Speaker 1: something I read the other day to sort of frame

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Speaker 1: this up. There is a bird dog thread on Reddit

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Speaker 1: where folks will post questions to the general community. A

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Speaker 1: recent post I saw basically said, and when I trained

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Speaker 1: my seven month old lab with a dock insteadfall trainer.

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Speaker 1: He grabs it perfectly in the middle of the body

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Speaker 1: and then delivers it to me. Now with a bumper,

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Speaker 1: he cigars it or grabs it by the rope and

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Speaker 1: doesn't quite deliver it the same way. Now, I'm paraphrasing there,

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Speaker 1: but that was the gist of it. But here is

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Speaker 1: a prime example of someone using two vastly different dog

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Speaker 1: training products for the same task. The reason that his

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Speaker 1: dog will grab the DFTs the way he wants him

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Speaker 1: to grab real birds and the reason that same dog

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Speaker 1: won't do that with rubber or canvas bumpers is simple.

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Speaker 1: The DFTs are literally designed to encourage a dog to

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Speaker 1: grab them that way and to then not shake them

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Speaker 1: a bumper. Well it's not. Now. Does this mean that

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Speaker 1: everyone should buy DFTs and not regular bumpers. Nope, But

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Speaker 1: it does mean that understanding the tools you're using is

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Speaker 1: MOOI importante. The hard swinging head on a DFT is

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Speaker 1: designed to discourage shaking, which it does well, and the

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Speaker 1: shape of the body as well as the position of

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Speaker 1: the hard plastic feet encourage a perfect hold every retrieve.

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Speaker 1: A dog trained from a young age on DFTs has

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Speaker 1: a jump start on a small but important facet of

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Speaker 1: retrieving behavior. But that's not to say you can't train

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Speaker 1: with standard bumpers and have a dog turn out just fine.

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Speaker 1: You absolutely can. A billion dogs have been trained that way,

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Speaker 1: and a hell of a lot of them made the

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Speaker 1: transition from normal dummies to birds just fine. After all,

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Speaker 1: dealing with real birds is a good way to mold

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Speaker 1: behaviors as well. But look at it this way. If

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Speaker 1: I take a lab puppy at eight weeks old and

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Speaker 1: I cut the rope off of a dead fall trainer

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Speaker 1: dove and then use that sparingly when I'm first trying

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Speaker 1: to encourage a couple of three foot retrieves, that puppy

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Speaker 1: is already learning how I want it to grab and

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Speaker 1: hold a bird. If I can condition a young puppy

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Speaker 1: to do something like that from the jump, I'm far

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Speaker 1: less likely to have to fight with it later on.

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Speaker 1: It doesn't seem like a big deal, but it's one

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Speaker 1: small part of the puzzle that can snap into place

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Speaker 1: early and stay there consistently. It plays nicely with natural

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Speaker 1: hold and carry and the eventual behavior of holding and

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Speaker 1: then delivering to hand again. All this can happen with

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Speaker 1: a regular old bumper, but it's sort of a matter

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Speaker 1: of efficiency. Now, I'll give you another example of training

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Speaker 1: tools that seem all the same but aren't. While the

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Speaker 1: shed dog thing has quieted down some in recent years,

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Speaker 1: it's still not uncommon to see folks building that into

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Speaker 1: their dog's repertoire, which is great, But if you go

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Speaker 1: to start a puppy on sheds, you have to think

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Speaker 1: about what can go wrong. And what I mean by

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Speaker 1: that is if you look at the shed dog training

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Speaker 1: tools on the market, you'll see actual deer antlers of

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Speaker 1: various sizes and you'll see soft rubber deer antlers. The

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Speaker 1: difference there is important because you don't want a dog

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Speaker 1: to be scared of antlers if you want that dog

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Speaker 1: to also love going out finding them with you. So,

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Speaker 1: for example, a twelve veek old puppy that you introduce

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Speaker 1: to antlers can see something that is the shape and

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Speaker 1: color of an antler and then pick it up and

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Speaker 1: it's soft and not going to poke them in the

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Speaker 1: eyes if they trip a little while carrying it. A

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Speaker 1: training antler in this case is insurance against immediately causing

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Speaker 1: your dog to develop fear over something that will hurt

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Speaker 1: it or could hurt it. You're just alleviating the possibility

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Speaker 1: for a negative association. Now, that same puppy that picks

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Speaker 1: up a real shed antler and trips and gets poked

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Speaker 1: in the eye or in the chest can in an

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Speaker 1: instant become averse to the very object you want them

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Speaker 1: to love. Now, over time, a dog has to eventually

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Speaker 1: start to pick up and carry real sheds, But if

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Speaker 1: you can instill a love of the game before that,

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Speaker 1: you've set your dog up on a better path to success.

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Speaker 1: This is one of the things that I love so

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Speaker 1: much about knowing so many really good professional trainers. They

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Speaker 1: are constantly thinking about preventative measures so that bad behaviors

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Speaker 1: don't develop in dogs in the first place. And if

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Speaker 1: you know anything about training dogs, you know why they

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Speaker 1: are so obsessed with that aspect of dog ownership. And

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Speaker 1: while a lot of trainers spend quite a bit of

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Speaker 1: their time introducing dogs to gunfire and live birds and

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Speaker 1: all the kinds of things that are important and need

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Speaker 1: to be associated with positive experiences, they are also just

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Speaker 1: responsible for untangling the messes that general dog owners create.

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Speaker 1: It's much better to not create those problems in the

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Speaker 1: first place than it is to create them, let them solidify,

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Speaker 1: and then try to undo them while also trying to

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Speaker 1: impart other positive behaviors into them. You know, an ounce

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Speaker 1: of prevention. As they say in the medical world. Training

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Speaker 1: tools designed for specific tasks are your cheat codes for

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Speaker 1: developing dogs efficiently and properly. But again, you got to

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Speaker 1: know how to use them, and one of the things

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Speaker 1: we get wrong a lot is not using them consistently.

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Speaker 1: Two categories of tools where this is extremely are placeboards

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Speaker 1: and e callers. When you look at trainers like Jordan

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Speaker 1: Horrock and Jeremy Moore, you see placeboards playing different roles

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Speaker 1: in their dogs' lives, but you also see a very

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Speaker 1: consistent form of usage. Once introduced. A placeboard is an

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Speaker 1: anchored to training sessions and a symbol of so many

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Speaker 1: things to a dog. But sitting calmly on a small

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Speaker 1: elevated platform is an unnatural move for most dogs, and

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Speaker 1: so their natural tendency is to try to not have

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Speaker 1: to sit on an elevated platform and be patient. They'll

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Speaker 1: test you often, and the more you don't hold them

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Speaker 1: to the rules, the more they won't follow them. So

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Speaker 1: think about it this way. If you train Apoppy on

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Speaker 1: a placeboard, which is a huge benefit to getting them

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Speaker 1: to focus on you and to make eye contact and

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Speaker 1: to show up to work. Then that placeboard needs to

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Speaker 1: be consistent in the house and in the field and

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Speaker 1: wherever else. You can't demand they place perfectly while working

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Speaker 1: hand signal drills at the soccer field down the road,

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Speaker 1: but then not worry about them staying on their placeboard

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Speaker 1: at home when the neighbors come over for a beer.

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Speaker 1: It doesn't work well that way, which means if you're

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Speaker 1: going to use a training tool like a placeboard, you

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Speaker 1: kind of need to just commit to using it. And

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Speaker 1: the same goes for e callers, which is a topic

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Speaker 1: that drives me a little bit nuts for a lot

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Speaker 1: of reasons. They're arguably one of the best tools for

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Speaker 1: keeping a handle on dogs, no matter how far out

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Speaker 1: they roam or how much fun stuff they find to

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Speaker 1: get into, but they are also easily the most misused

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Speaker 1: tools on the market. This is because people often reach

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Speaker 1: for an e caller to fix bad dog behavior that

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Speaker 1: they've let develop in the first place. But punishing a

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Speaker 1: dog for our mistakes leads to a couple of outcomes.

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Speaker 1: The first is that the bad behavior often like recall

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Speaker 1: issues won't be solved in any other way than when

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Speaker 1: you use the E collar and light a dog up.

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Speaker 1: Then it'll come back, but if you don't, it won't.

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Speaker 1: That's not a dog that's trained to reall. It's a

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Speaker 1: dog that's trained to recall when it gets zapped. Then

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Speaker 1: you always have to zap it to get that response, though,

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Speaker 1: which is no bueno. A different, but potential worse outcome

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Speaker 1: with this scenario is not using the E caller during

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Speaker 1: training enough and then over using it during hunting. I

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Speaker 1: watched this with a hunting buddy of mine this fall,

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Speaker 1: and what it did was confuses dogs. You're not going

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Speaker 1: to train a dog when it's in the middle of

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Speaker 1: a cattail slew and the roosters are flushing like mad.

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Speaker 1: You might because you're mad at the dog, you know,

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Speaker 1: because he isn't in range, tone them and beat them

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Speaker 1: and eventually zap them more in a forty five minute

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Speaker 1: session in the field than you would in a month

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Speaker 1: of training at home. Now imagine that from the dog's perspective,

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Speaker 1: it finally gets to do the thing it loves the most,

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Speaker 1: and now it's also being corrected constantly. Great way to

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Speaker 1: add a negative association and a lot of confusion to

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Speaker 1: a situation that doesn't need it. What training tools promise

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Speaker 1: us is great behavior, but we don't get that just

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Speaker 1: by using training tools without any strategy or understanding of

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Speaker 1: how they are to be used. In some instances, like

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Speaker 1: with e callers, you're also looking to use a tool

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Speaker 1: sparingly and then have it as a backup to control

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Speaker 1: bad behavior, but not something you want to have to

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Speaker 1: rely on. Always. The same goes for treat training. I

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Speaker 1: had to go on a mission to find a skin

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Speaker 1: stable remover the other day after a bad incident with

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Speaker 1: my younger lab and a barber ware fence in the

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Speaker 1: middle of Nebraska in January, which is a story I'll

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Speaker 1: tell some other time. Now, while going through the aisles

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Speaker 1: of a pet store near my house, I saw a

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Speaker 1: woman with a callie looking type of dog that had

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Speaker 1: a service dog vest and a muslon. The dog was terrified,

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Speaker 1: had the look of a dog that was just not

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Speaker 1: comfortable in its environment. It was cagey, suspicious, and while

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Speaker 1: I'm just drawing conclusions from a twenty second encounter, very

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Speaker 1: unlikely to be an easy dog to train. Now, in

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Speaker 1: the time, we were in the same aisle, which is

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Speaker 1: very short. I saw her give that dog three treats

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Speaker 1: from her pocket. Now keep in mind that this wasn't

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Speaker 1: a twelve week old puppy. It was a fully mature

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Speaker 1: dog and by the looks of it, had no shortage

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Speaker 1: to access to extra calories. Now, maybe it's a misread

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Speaker 1: on my part, but it looked like the kind of

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Speaker 1: situation where she was using treats way way too much. Now,

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Speaker 1: this isn't a huge problem in the bird dog world,

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Speaker 1: but it's becoming more of a problem as our dogs

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Speaker 1: migrate from the backyard kennels to sleeping in between us

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Speaker 1: and our beds every night. We look at treats like

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Speaker 1: they are us doing a nice thing for our dogs.

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Speaker 1: But you wouldn't hand your kids, you know, a Snicker's

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Speaker 1: bar or a pack of gushers every time they were

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Speaker 1: remotely applied to a stranger or didn't act like little assholes.

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Speaker 1: If you did, it wouldn't be very long before you

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Speaker 1: were doing yourself and your kids a huge disservice. Now,

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Speaker 1: with dogs, the reliance on treats is a closed loop

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Speaker 1: that always ends up in the same place. You don't

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Speaker 1: want to have to have a pocket full of milk

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Speaker 1: bones out in the field to reward your GSP for

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Speaker 1: every solid point he locks up on. You can encourage

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Speaker 1: most dogs to do just about anything with the right

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Speaker 1: food reward, but you don't want them to only do

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Speaker 1: that behavior forever because of the immediate promise of a treat.

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Speaker 1: Think about it this way. Treat training involves well treats.

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Speaker 1: A treat is not something that should happen super often,

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Speaker 1: or the value of it won't matter after a while.

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Speaker 1: The balance will tip from a positive to a negative

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Speaker 1: through overuse, and that's not a crutch you want to

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Speaker 1: have to lean on long term, because there's no escape

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Speaker 1: after a while. Now, if you've noticed by now, I've

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Speaker 1: stuck to some of the most basic training tools. I

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Speaker 1: haven't gotten into dummy launchers and bird releasers and some

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Speaker 1: of the really cool stuff that pro trainers really lie on.

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Speaker 1: But the average joe usually doesn't own, you know, in

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Speaker 1: his entire lifetime. And those things are great. They follow

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Speaker 1: the same rules as other training tools, but I'm also

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Speaker 1: considering them sort of advanced, and that if you're using

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Speaker 1: a dummy launcher, you probably know the whys and hows

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Speaker 1: behind the whole thing, but there is one last category

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Speaker 1: I want to touch on, especially for the puppy owning crowd,

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Speaker 1: which is check cords. If you want a cheap product

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Speaker 1: that is extremely useful with puppy training, you can't do

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Speaker 1: any better than a check cord. They are generally just

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Speaker 1: built with nylon rope and come in links of your

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Speaker 1: average walking leash out to like thirty footers. They weigh

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Speaker 1: almost nothing and puppies learn to forget about them almost instantly.

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Speaker 1: They allow you to catch your puppy when it gets

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Speaker 1: to the young teenage stage and decides it's more fun

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Speaker 1: to be free than under your control. They allow you

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Speaker 1: to let your puppy roam, but also reel them in

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Speaker 1: simultaneously using a recall command. This works on land and

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Speaker 1: in the water if you're at that point. Although I

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Speaker 1: should say this, if you leave a check cord on

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Speaker 1: your pup and let it swim and also happen to

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Speaker 1: film it for social media, expect some serious hate, even

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Speaker 1: if your pup is in six inches of water and

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Speaker 1: in zero danger of drowning. I didn't do this personally,

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Speaker 1: but I know a trainer who did, and that trainer

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Speaker 1: knows more about dogs than just about anyone I've ever met,

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Speaker 1: and he's also not really the kind of fellow to

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Speaker 1: risk a dog's life for clout on the gram, but alas,

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Speaker 1: that's the world we live in, and he got flamed

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Speaker 1: for that little video anyway. Check courts are great, especially

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Speaker 1: longer check cords, because they can allow your pup to

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Speaker 1: have some freedom, but you still have absolute control over

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Speaker 1: where they can go and whether they'll come back to

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Speaker 1: you or not. Now, not that this means anything, but

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Speaker 1: I feel like check cords have been maybe the most

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Speaker 1: valuable tool I've ever used training my last couple of pups,

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Speaker 1: and I don't know if there is a tool I'd

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Speaker 1: lean on more for the first couple months of having

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Speaker 1: a new dog. But they're just like all the tools

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Speaker 1: I already talked about and all the ones I haven't mentioned.

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Speaker 1: You have to know what they are good for and

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Speaker 1: how to use them properly. This is maybe the biggest

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Speaker 1: point I want to drive home, and it's the last one.

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Speaker 1: Training tools don't make your dog better by themselves. Really,

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Speaker 1: that might seem kind of like a weird analogy, but

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Speaker 1: hear me out. I Look, this might seem kind of

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Speaker 1: like a weird analogy, but hear me out, I look

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Speaker 1: at training tools kind of like fishing tackle. I freaking

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Speaker 1: love fishing tackle a lot. But if I spend sixteen

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Speaker 1: dollars on a whopper plopper, which is a top water

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Speaker 1: lure that just pisses off smallmouth in a way that

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Speaker 1: is so fun, And then I take that lure and

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Speaker 1: I throw it out in the middle of the lake

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Speaker 1: where the depth is seventy feet and there's no structure

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Speaker 1: and no roaming schools of bait fish, that expensive top

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Speaker 1: water is going to chugle on for a long time

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Speaker 1: without drawing any interest, without me knowing where to throw it,

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Speaker 1: which means me knowing where this mall mouth should be

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Speaker 1: holding while I'm out there, that really cool tool for

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Speaker 1: catching more fish won't do me any good. Training tools

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Speaker 1: for dogs are kind of like the same thing. Once

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Speaker 1: we understand how and why you know, they are designed

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Speaker 1: the way they are, we can put them to use

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Speaker 1: in a better way. It's kind of that simple. Think

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Speaker 1: about this as we settle into the off season, which

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Speaker 1: is when we should all be training our dogs so

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Speaker 1: they aren't bored and so they can level up, and

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Speaker 1: then come back in two weeks for more talk about

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Speaker 1: our four legged besties. That's it for this week. I'm

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Speaker 1: Tony Peterson. This has been the Houndation's podcast. As always,

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Speaker 1: Thank you so much for all of your support. Can't

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Speaker 1: tell you how much we appreciate it here at meat Eater.

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Speaker 1: And speaking of us here at meat Eater, we drop

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Speaker 1: new content over at the meadeater dot com literally every

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Speaker 1: single day of the year, sometimes lots of pieces of

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Speaker 1: content on the same day. Podcasts, articles, recipes, films, you

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Speaker 1: name it. Whether you want to learn a new outdoor

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Speaker 1: skill or you just want to be entertained and stave

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Speaker 1: off some cabin fever, right now, we got you covered.

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Speaker 1: Go to the medeater dot com and check it out

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Speaker 1: at the pocket a double listed in the topic couping

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Speaker 1: the Toteman