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Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace as droves of students and

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Speaker 1: others gather together to mourn for University Idaho students slaughtered

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Speaker 1: in their sleep, The question remains, who's the killer? I'm

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Speaker 1: Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank you for being

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Speaker 1: with us here at Fox Nation and Serious X one

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Speaker 1: eleven listen an eerie silence inside the Kibbie Doome before

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Speaker 1: tonight's vigil. The sound of buzzing and beeping metal detectors

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Speaker 1: made more noise than the thousands of students who stood

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Speaker 1: on the field to honor the life and memory of Ethan, Zanna, Kaylee,

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Speaker 1: and Madison, who were found stabbed to death in this

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Speaker 1: home off campus seventeen days ago. Candles weren't allowed inside

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Speaker 1: the Kibbe Domes, so students instead lit up their phones

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Speaker 1: as the names of each student were read aloud, a

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Speaker 1: moment of silence, a pillar of light representing each life lost.

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Speaker 1: We don't know how long this investigation will take, and

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Speaker 1: we don't know the why behind this horrific act, but

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Speaker 1: what we do know is we will all go through

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Speaker 1: this together. Xanna Cronotle's family was not here tonight, and

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Speaker 1: you know the elephant in the room. Obviously the killer

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Speaker 1: still out there, but were they here tonight at this vigil,

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Speaker 1: standing alongside students. That's the question some people are wondering.

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Speaker 1: You are hearing our friends over at kr EM, But

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Speaker 1: the big question, even touching on the vigil, is a

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Speaker 1: bombshell just dropped by Idaho police. Take a listen our

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Speaker 1: friend Brian Inton. We interviewed the prosecutor. He said that

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Speaker 1: one of the victims was not targeted, that the residence

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Speaker 1: was targeted, and then today said something totally different to

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Speaker 1: a different reporter. We've been trying to figure it out,

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Speaker 1: and I just got an email from the police department

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Speaker 1: saying that this has been an internal miscommunication and I

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Speaker 1: want to read this. This is quoted a quote now

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Speaker 1: by the prosecutor. Thank you for the opportunity to speak

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Speaker 1: with you. We want to let you know that there

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Speaker 1: was a miscommunication between detectives and my office. To clarify,

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Speaker 1: investigators do not believe the murders were random, but we

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Speaker 1: cannot unequivocally state the residence or any occupants were specifically targeted.

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Speaker 1: I apologize for any confusion. And then it goes on

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Speaker 1: to say, in big bold letters, correction conflicting information has

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Speaker 1: been released over the past twenty four hours. The prosecutor's

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Speaker 1: office stated the suspects specifically looked at the residence and

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Speaker 1: that one or more of the occupants were undoubtedly targeted.

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Speaker 1: We have spoken with the Prosecutor's office and identified that

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Speaker 1: was a miscommunication. Detectives do not currently know if the

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Speaker 1: residence or any occupants were specifically targeted, but continue to investigate. Okay,

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Speaker 1: this is a big deal and it was not and

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Speaker 1: a quote internal communication. Multiple people within the police force

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Speaker 1: and the DA's office has said these four murders were targeted.

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Speaker 1: One or more of the college students were the target

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Speaker 1: of a killer, a knife killer. That's not a miscommunication.

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Speaker 1: This is a change in forensics strategy. With me an

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Speaker 1: all Star panel before I go to crime reporter with

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Speaker 1: Fox News Digital, Stephanie Pogona's first to Joe Scott Morgan,

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Speaker 1: Professor Forensics, Jacksonville State University, author of Blood Beneath My

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Speaker 1: Feet on Amazon and star of a hit series Body

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Speaker 1: Backs with Joe Scott Morgan. Joe Scott, this is a

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Speaker 1: seismic shift because if the attacks were not targeted, that

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Speaker 1: makes the killer much much more a needle in a Haystack. Yes,

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Speaker 1: it does in that population at that university, Nancy, it

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Speaker 1: certainly does, because now you don't know who you're looking for.

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Speaker 1: Can you narrow it down? Possibly? But you know there's

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Speaker 1: been looked and hear me right here. When you put

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Speaker 1: this kind of information out, that turns all eyes, It

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Speaker 1: turns all minds toward a particular type of person that

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Speaker 1: they're looking for, and that even extends out to the

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Speaker 1: individuals that they might be seeking information from. All they're

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Speaker 1: looking for a targeted person who wawn, slow down. Yes, yes,

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Speaker 1: you're right, and back to the Let me go to

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Speaker 1: Stephanie Begonus, Real Quick Crime reporter, Fox News Digital. Stephanie,

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Speaker 1: thanks for being with us because much was made about

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Speaker 1: the vigil. Was the killer there if it's not targeted,

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Speaker 1: He's not there if he's not expected to be the

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Speaker 1: only way that the killer, if it was targeted, would

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Speaker 1: be noticed in his absence, as if he was expected

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Speaker 1: to be there. You know, I went, a husband kills

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Speaker 1: a wife, and he doesn't show up for the funeral,

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Speaker 1: that's obvious. But in an untargeted attack, that killer is

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Speaker 1: not going to show up at a vigil. He's long gone.

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Speaker 1: So I was actually there last night, and not only

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Speaker 1: were like you said, there are hundreds of students there,

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Speaker 1: but there were also what appeared to be undercover police

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Speaker 1: officers in the crowd. But one thing, like you said,

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Speaker 1: is walking back to this targeted statement changes so much

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Speaker 1: about this case. Even from the start police have said

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Speaker 1: and not at all to fearmonger here, but even from

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Speaker 1: the start police have said that there was not a

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Speaker 1: threat to the community because this was a targeted case. Now,

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Speaker 1: of course they later said that people should be careful,

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Speaker 1: and that is absolutely understandable, But this changes so much,

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Speaker 1: and I just want to flag that exactly one week

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Speaker 1: ago from yesterday, on November twenty third, Moscow Police Captain

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Speaker 1: Roger Lanier told the press and the public during a

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Speaker 1: press conference. He said, we've pulled the public very clearly

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Speaker 1: from the beginning that we believe it was a targeted attack.

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Speaker 1: To be honest, you're going to have to trust us

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Speaker 1: on that. So they would you say, why they thought so? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: they're all appointing the finger. Now Stephanie Pagan is saying, oh, yeah,

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Speaker 1: this is an internal communication. I'm calling bs on that

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Speaker 1: because people within the police divorce. Just as you just pointed,

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Speaker 1: out Stephanie and within the DA's office, we're saying, hey,

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Speaker 1: trust us, it's targeted now before you get crazy. I

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Speaker 1: also want to state and agree or disagree. Del Carson

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Speaker 1: is with me, high profile lawyer joining us out of

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Speaker 1: Jacksonville and also former fed with the FBI, former cop

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Speaker 1: as well, and a high crime area Miami Dade. Author

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Speaker 1: of a resciproof yourself. He's at Del Carson Law dot

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Speaker 1: com and deal here's the thing. Targeted can mean a

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Speaker 1: lot of different things. And let me harken back again

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Speaker 1: to Ted Bundy. Yes, he targeted the women in the

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Speaker 1: kay Omega house, the girls, but he didn't know them.

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Speaker 1: When I say he targeted them, they were all of

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Speaker 1: the physical type that he enjoyed killing within a certain age.

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Speaker 1: Of course, he did deviate within a certain age. He

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Speaker 1: killed within his race. Many of his victims all had long,

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Speaker 1: dark hair parted in the middle. If you look back

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Speaker 1: at them, they had a certain look. So did he

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Speaker 1: know them? No, he didn't even know their names. But

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Speaker 1: he targeted them. Get it, Well, that's exactly what has

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Speaker 1: happened here. So my understanding of target it is different.

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Speaker 1: It's like yours. They were targeting because they were actually killed,

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Speaker 1: and these were killings. This was not wanting them to

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Speaker 1: have pain. This was a killing. They went in the

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Speaker 1: person killed these people. So this was not made to

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Speaker 1: make them suffer as Bundy off and did. So you're

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Speaker 1: exactly right. But now they're switching the game on us,

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Speaker 1: and now it's not a targeted attack. It's gonna be random,

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Speaker 1: and so that does change the entire dynamic of who

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Speaker 1: we're looking for. Oh yeah, and that's certainly putting it mildly.

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Speaker 1: Just got morgan before before when we thought it was targeted,

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Speaker 1: Remember you and I were analyzing, how do they know

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Speaker 1: it's targeted? Was one body treated differently? Was one body staged?

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Speaker 1: I mean, we're going through all of the possibilities, right,

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Speaker 1: but not targeted. Oh, it's not like you're going to

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Speaker 1: the boyfriend, the ex boyfriend, the creepy guy online that's

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Speaker 1: following you tagging you, the guy that's looking at your

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Speaker 1: snap map. No, then you go beyond that to the

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Speaker 1: delivery boy. You go beyond that to the guy that

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Speaker 1: sits in the back of your classroom, and then you

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Speaker 1: go you go to the bus driver and the and

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Speaker 1: the cab driver and the uber driver and you go

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Speaker 1: out and out and out, and suddenly you got nowhere

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Speaker 1: to go nowhere with untargeted it could be anybody. It

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Speaker 1: becomes randomized. Hey, Nancy, something I find interesting here in

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Speaker 1: reference to Dale's former colleagues with the fits, and notice

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Speaker 1: the silence is deafening from the FBI at this point.

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Speaker 1: They you don't usually hear a lot from the FBI,

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Speaker 1: but they do. Okay, well, listen, they've they have involved,

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Speaker 1: they have involved, admittedly the Behavioral Sciences Unit say admittedly,

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Speaker 1: like it's some kind of confession they put They put

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Speaker 1: it out there. So I think people are and rightly

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Speaker 1: so they should be asking the question where is the FBI. Well,

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Speaker 1: the FBI many times will consult with the locals. I'm

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Speaker 1: wondering if the locals are listening to the FBI or

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Speaker 1: if the FBI has given them information about what their profile.

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Speaker 1: Joe Scott, you know what, you know what, You're muddy

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Speaker 1: in the water. And I don't think right now the

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Speaker 1: police another black eye, but another thing. And Joe Scott,

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Speaker 1: Stephanie Pogonas del Carson, Dr Bethany, you know, I'm getting

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Speaker 1: to you. I think that people are actually mistreating the

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Speaker 1: cops right now they're saying they bungled it. I don't

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Speaker 1: think that's correct. In a multi victim murder scene, the

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Speaker 1: last one I worked on, there were four dead bodies

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Speaker 1: on two floors and it took us over two weeks

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Speaker 1: to gather the evidence. And we knew who did it.

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Speaker 1: We already knew who did it. Another multi victim crime

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Speaker 1: scene I worked on had three homicide victims. And what

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Speaker 1: complicated that is that it was outdoors. Now catch this,

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Speaker 1: wait for it. I went back to the scene well

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Speaker 1: atically every day, but it was well on a week

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Speaker 1: before I went back to the scene and found another

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Speaker 1: shell casing hidden under foliage. Yes, that's what takes so long,

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Speaker 1: and I just happened to find it. I was just

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Speaker 1: kicking around and I found it. I thought. I just

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Speaker 1: got chills remembering that moment. So guys claiming they bungled

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Speaker 1: it is simply not accurate. Crime stories. With Nancy Grace

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Speaker 1: Jill Carson with me, not only high profile lawyer in Jacksonville,

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Speaker 1: but today I have him along with Joe Scott Morgan

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Speaker 1: to talk about the forensics. You've got blood on blood

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Speaker 1: on blood. You gotta get the blood, got to get

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Speaker 1: it to the crime scene uncompromised. Then the scientists get

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Speaker 1: in on it. They're looking through the microscope. They've got

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Speaker 1: to analyze, is that one person's two people? Has it

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Speaker 1: been compromised with dirt or hair or somebody stepped through it.

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Speaker 1: You've got to comb that place for fingerprints. This was

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Speaker 1: a party house for Pete's sake. Now telling them how

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Speaker 1: many fingerprints and you know they're not random made in

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Speaker 1: every other week, that's not happening. So how many fingerprints

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Speaker 1: are in that home covering everything? This is a very

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Speaker 1: complex crime scene, consisting of four dead bodies on two

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Speaker 1: different levels, three levels all together to process del Carson.

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Speaker 1: I mean the fact that they originally said it was targeted,

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Speaker 1: I understand why they said that. And the fact they're

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Speaker 1: now saying, hey, it may not be targeted. I understand

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Speaker 1: why they're saying that. Deal. Well, look, when I taught

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Speaker 1: crime scene investigation for the Bureau, here are the principles.

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Speaker 1: The first is you make sure of the bad guy's

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Speaker 1: not there. Yeah, you'd never toot your own horn, would

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Speaker 1: you go ahead? No, the bad guy's not there. You

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Speaker 1: make sure that anybody who is there still alive, and

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Speaker 1: if not, you try to fix that, and then the

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Speaker 1: next thing you do is you expand the perimeter of

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Speaker 1: the search as large as you can maintain control over it,

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Speaker 1: because that deals with chain a custody later when you're

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Speaker 1: trying to prosecute the Okay, hold on, talk to English,

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Speaker 1: Tommy Man. When you say, for those of you listening,

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Speaker 1: you hear del car sent throwing out a little lingo,

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Speaker 1: we're impressed, expand the perimeter of search. You want to

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Speaker 1: speak playing And yeah, well, you want to control the

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Speaker 1: b biggest area you can to protect any evidence that

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Speaker 1: you may later find in that area. And from my

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Speaker 1: perspective now that this is clearly not a targeted attack.

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Speaker 1: That comes from somebody watching the interior activity of that

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Speaker 1: house from the exterior, and that puts us back on

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Speaker 1: that kill. You said that on day one, you said

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Speaker 1: they need to be looking at that incline kind of

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Speaker 1: like a hill right behind the house. That someone could

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Speaker 1: have been watching the house from that hill and some idget.

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Speaker 1: I don't know who it was yet, but I'll find out.

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Speaker 1: Stephanie Pogonis, crime reporter Fox News Digital was whining that

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Speaker 1: the cops didn't get cast prints of the vehicles before

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Speaker 1: they were taken away. Well, that's idiocy. You get cast

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Speaker 1: prints of treadmarks when you don't know what the car is.

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Speaker 1: They towed the cars, and I believe the cars belonged

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Speaker 1: to the people that lived in the house, the five

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Speaker 1: people living in the house. Five cars were taken away,

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Speaker 1: so they're they've been taken away for processing in a

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Speaker 1: controlled environment, probably with Idaho State Police. So a lot

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Speaker 1: of whining about what the cops are doing, like not

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Speaker 1: take cast marks of tar. You take a cast mark

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Speaker 1: when you don't know the car belongs to, like a

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Speaker 1: getaway car. So, Stephanie, I also want you to clarify

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Speaker 1: something I don't yet that cops are saying necessarily, this

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Speaker 1: is not a targeted attack. I understand them to be saying,

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Speaker 1: we don't know if it's targeted or not. I completely

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Speaker 1: agree what these teems to be saying here is not

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Speaker 1: definitive in one way or another. What they're saying is

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Speaker 1: they can't yet stayed definitively that this is targeted. Instead,

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Speaker 1: they're still working to ascertain the information to be able

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Speaker 1: to definitive police say. So. Now, as for the crime

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Speaker 1: scene and even that incline that we discussed just previously,

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Speaker 1: you know, I just want to flag that I'm here now.

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Speaker 1: I'm here on the ground in Moscow, Idaho, and we

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Speaker 1: have not only had one full day of snow, but

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Speaker 1: we've had several Now. I've been told from the police

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Speaker 1: department that they have already done extensive work, can spend

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Speaker 1: much time at the crime scene, but I do wonder

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Speaker 1: how much the snow complicates things now. As for the vehicles,

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Speaker 1: like you discussed, Yes, they did tow five vehicles away

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Speaker 1: from the scene, and the vehicles are now being placed

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Speaker 1: at a at a city mechanics shop, so they are

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Speaker 1: there in a controlled environment, like you said, so that

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Speaker 1: if they need to go back and examine the cars

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Speaker 1: once again, they can do so. I was told yesterday

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Speaker 1: that the cars were already processed while they were at

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Speaker 1: the crime scene, but now they're being held as part

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Speaker 1: of their ongoing search warrants, so that if they need

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Speaker 1: to revisit those vehicles, they can and very quickly. Joe Scott,

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Speaker 1: I think the reason they are taking the vehicles, and

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Speaker 1: there's really no way to put this delicately. For all

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Speaker 1: I know, the prop came up and took a leak

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Speaker 1: on one of the tires watching the house. He may

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Speaker 1: have touched the car. For all I know, one of

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Speaker 1: the girls may have given the killer a ride. That's

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Speaker 1: why they have the cars. I don't think the cars

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Speaker 1: are connected to the murders, but they're going to be processed.

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Speaker 1: And how does the snow affect the scene on that

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Speaker 1: incline behind the murder house, Joe Scott, Well, obviously the

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Speaker 1: snow is going to obscure anything as far as footprints

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Speaker 1: and all of that is concerned. You know, we know

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Speaker 1: that snow covers up the leaves and the foliage. But

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Speaker 1: the way you said it sounded so much more scientific. Okay,

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Speaker 1: go ahead, obscure. Well, yeah, it's going to cover it

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Speaker 1: up so that they're no longer visible. I hope that

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Speaker 1: it can process it. It's very difficult. Now you can

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Speaker 1: process it. There's a difference now you have. You know,

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Speaker 1: when this thing first happened, Nancy, there was no snow

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Speaker 1: on the ground, So if you have an underlying footprint

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Speaker 1: out there at that time, you would have had to

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Speaker 1: have captured it thin. But now you've got a layer

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Speaker 1: of snow on top of it. Now we can get

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Speaker 1: footprints out of the snow. That's not what's going on here. Now.

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Speaker 1: The snow is obscuring, that's hiding. So if he didn't

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Speaker 1: get it the first time, it's going to be very

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Speaker 1: difficult to get it now because you're screwed. I'll interpret

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Speaker 1: that for you, if you didn't already process that scene,

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Speaker 1: that area of vipers and nest, I think as del

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Speaker 1: Carson may have called it at one point where the

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Speaker 1: person may have been watching them, much as Bundy would

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Speaker 1: watch his victims. I spoke to one of his surviving

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Speaker 1: victims and when she was attacked, Oh, my stars, Jackie,

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Speaker 1: what was what was her name? I loved her so much.

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Speaker 1: She was a dancer, and he was watching her through

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Speaker 1: her window, go through her dance routine, and he came

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Speaker 1: in and beat her senseless. She survived, Oh by the way,

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Speaker 1: he left her permanently death. That ended her Broadway aspirations.

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Speaker 1: But she went on to become a dance instructor for

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Speaker 1: the death Believe it or not. Wasn't she at Godet anyway? Thomas, right,

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Speaker 1: wait a minute, you make me lose my thought. You know,

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Speaker 1: it's very easy to do. My point is back to

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Speaker 1: what del Carson was saying earlier. If this guy had

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Speaker 1: been watching them the way Bundy watched some of his

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Speaker 1: victims through the window. There may have been trace evidence

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Speaker 1: left there, but the snow if they didn't process it

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Speaker 1: before it started to snow, and they're screwed. Jump in Dale.

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Speaker 1: I look, we're not necessarily looking for trese evidence or

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Speaker 1: fiber evidence or microscopic evidence. When people do things like this,

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Speaker 1: they tend to leave things by accident, a bullet falls out,

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Speaker 1: there's some piece of their clothing that's left there, a

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Speaker 1: large piece that you can see, or you go to

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Speaker 1: the scene and you kick up the leaves and you

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Speaker 1: find a bullet casing. That's what we're looking for. It

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Speaker 1: was a knife, man, there's not going to be a

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Speaker 1: bullet casing. But I get you're dressed. I'm talking about

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Speaker 1: when you found one. Oh yeah, that's exactly how that

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Speaker 1: went down. Doctor Bethny Marshall joining me Psychoanalysts to the Stars,

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Speaker 1: joining us Oude of Beverly Hills. You can find a

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Speaker 1: doctor Bethany Marshall dot com. Doctor Bethany, I got several questions,

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Speaker 1: the first one being what does it tell you about

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Speaker 1: the killer that they may have been just watching the

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Speaker 1: victims through the window, Because you know, I mean Jackie,

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Speaker 1: remember when we looked at the crime scene. You can

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Speaker 1: look straight in some of the windows, especially the sliding

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Speaker 1: myst door, and if it's at night and they're in,

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Speaker 1: they're in the light, walking around, cooking, probably partially undressed,

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Speaker 1: like everybody does. He's probably watching that. So what kind

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Speaker 1: of a person does that? Number one and number two,

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Speaker 1: this may not be targeted thing, it's a big deal. Translation,

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Speaker 1: you better get your children home from that school right now,

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Speaker 1: because if it's not targeted, if it's not the boyfriend,

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Speaker 1: the ex boyfriend, the connected person, that means it's random

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Speaker 1: and your child could be next. But answer, just to

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Speaker 1: place this in context, I was thinking about you remember

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Speaker 1: Richard Ramirez the night stalker. Oh yeah, I was a student.

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Speaker 1: I was in seminary when he was targeting women in

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Speaker 1: the larger Los Angeles area. So I had three roommates disunds.

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Speaker 1: Did he kill everything within his race and he crossed

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Speaker 1: racial bounds and eight bounds from my very young women

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Speaker 1: to the elderly, but it was mostly women, I think

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Speaker 1: one male victim. So my roommates and I we would

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Speaker 1: literally tight rope and twine and everything we could around

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Speaker 1: our windows at night because we were so terrified that

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Speaker 1: the night stalker would come and get us. So I'm

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Speaker 1: thinking about this university campus. And if the police say, hey,

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Speaker 1: it's targeted, they're like, okay, one of the girls had

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Speaker 1: a stalker, so it's not going to be me. I

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Speaker 1: can continue to go to my classes, I can call

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Speaker 1: my parents, I can live my life. But when the

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Speaker 1: police say it's not targeted, oh my god, this was

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Speaker 1: a serial killer. He was looking through the windows, was

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Speaker 1: checking them to see if he was their type, because

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Speaker 1: we know serial killers have pipes, and in this case

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Speaker 1: that the type could have been you know, white Sandy.

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Speaker 1: Pull up from me a picture of Bundy's victims, I'm saying,

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Speaker 1: and study very carefully this um manage of all the victims,

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Speaker 1: and oh yeah, okay, I got it. I wanted to

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Speaker 1: make sure I was talking about the right thing. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: look at that. When I wrote the right said, they're

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Speaker 1: all with the hair, the long straight hair parted in

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Speaker 1: the middle, white females. Go ahead, doctor Bethany. Okay, So,

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Speaker 1: so Bun Bundy had a type, right, what of this

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Speaker 1: is a serial killer whose type is blonde women, blond,

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Speaker 1: curly hair, beautiful, wearing the hip jeans that young people

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Speaker 1: wear these days. I've been looking at all their Instagram photos.

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Speaker 1: Beautiful white teeth, friendly girls who kind of hug each

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Speaker 1: other and sit on each other's lap, sleeping each other's

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Speaker 1: beds because they're bestdees. You know. The type is not

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Speaker 1: just how they look, it's how they maneuver in society.

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Speaker 1: It's how they relate, how they engage. He has formed

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Speaker 1: relationships with these victims in his mind if he's been

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Speaker 1: looking through their windows. So think about the mass hysteria

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Speaker 1: that's taking place on this campus. Every young woman and

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Speaker 1: men because a young man was killed, was going to

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Speaker 1: be thinking, is somebody looking through my window? Am I

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Speaker 1: his type? What's on my Instagram? What is on my

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Speaker 1: social media? Because serial killers don't just look through windows anymore, right,

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Speaker 1: They can look at social media profiles. They can do

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Speaker 1: all kinds of things. So I think in this moving

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Speaker 1: from targeted to not targeted, the police are also saying,

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Speaker 1: don't think it's just these girls or one girl who

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Speaker 1: had a guy who had a strange fascination with her.

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Speaker 1: It could be anyone. So the psychology on this campus,

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Speaker 1: as you said, parents are going to want to be

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Speaker 1: getting their kids home. They're not going to want to

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Speaker 1: be there anymore. Yeah. I second listen to Brad Garrett,

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Speaker 1: former FBI special agent, speaking to our friends at GMA.

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Speaker 1: If there's not an immediate connection, you have to go

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Speaker 1: to sort of a wider circle you would look at,

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Speaker 1: for example, maybe or maybe not, somebody older. I only

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Speaker 1: suggest that because this crime appears to be very focused

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Speaker 1: and the person had a comfort level in the house,

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Speaker 1: and so as a result, do you start looking at

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Speaker 1: sort of relationships that are really aren't tight with these kids?

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Speaker 1: See somebody they met occasionally, somebody that may have come

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Speaker 1: to the house to attend a party. Apparently there was

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Speaker 1: a big party house, and so that makes it more difficult.

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Speaker 1: Less connections makes it more difficult. Many times I solve

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Speaker 1: a crime. He's so right. Let's listen to more of

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Speaker 1: what Brad Garrett says. If it's a if somebody that's

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Speaker 1: done this before, I mean, people who do this kind

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Speaker 1: of stuff get a big thrill out of doing it. Now,

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Speaker 1: we don't know if it's that type of person, but

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Speaker 1: that it could be something like that. The idea that

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Speaker 1: you killed four people just tells me that this was

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Speaker 1: sort of driven by something you intrinsically wanted to do

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Speaker 1: less so than mebe one student mad at another student.

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Speaker 1: You know, here's the dichotomy. Stephanie Pagonas, I see a

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Speaker 1: conflict in rationale. Stephanie Pagoni's crime reporter with Fox News Digital.

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Speaker 1: Hold on, let me see if I can verbalize this correctly. Okay,

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Speaker 1: the fact that this person killed four innocent victims, generally

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Speaker 1: in their sleep or in bed, would suggest it's not

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Speaker 1: his first offense. You don't go from zero to one

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Speaker 1: twenty mph just like that. On the other hand, we're

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Speaker 1: not getting a hit. And codis or aphis DNA repository

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Speaker 1: fingerprint repository, which if there had been a conviction in

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Speaker 1: the last fifteen twenty years, he would be in that

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Speaker 1: data bank. See what I mean. That is an inconsistency

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Speaker 1: that must be analyzed and scrutinized it very carefully. One

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Speaker 1: methodology would dictate this is not his first crime. But

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Speaker 1: that's why Ball, that's why BYCAP is important. That's the

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Speaker 1: Bureau's violent apprehension program that takes every one of these

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Speaker 1: similar cases, puts him into a private database with a

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Speaker 1: Bureau about knife, gun, weapon location, all those things, to

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Speaker 1: connect all these dots in a way that allows us

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Speaker 1: to know that some guy in southern California did this

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Speaker 1: two years ago, or Stephanie Pagonus. It could be simply

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Speaker 1: a man. That may not be an inconsistency it Maybe

426
00:27:00,520 --> 00:27:03,480
Speaker 1: it's very possible that the d and fingerprints have not

427
00:27:03,640 --> 00:27:06,880
Speaker 1: all been processed yet, so we don't know if there's

428
00:27:06,880 --> 00:27:09,880
Speaker 1: a match in a PC. Yes, that's correct. In fact,

429
00:27:09,960 --> 00:27:12,440
Speaker 1: I just spoke to police yesterday who told me they

430
00:27:12,440 --> 00:27:15,320
Speaker 1: had not received all of their crime lab results yet.

431
00:27:15,440 --> 00:27:19,440
Speaker 1: They had received some and they had begun examining those results,

432
00:27:19,440 --> 00:27:23,160
Speaker 1: but they were still receiving them. And I asked specifically

433
00:27:23,240 --> 00:27:27,440
Speaker 1: about DNA and the presence of any foreign DNA being

434
00:27:27,520 --> 00:27:32,359
Speaker 1: that which belonged to, you know, someone who wasn't the

435
00:27:32,359 --> 00:27:36,080
Speaker 1: four victims or their two roommates, and police have not responded.

436
00:27:36,320 --> 00:27:39,159
Speaker 1: They also have not responded to a question of whether

437
00:27:39,240 --> 00:27:42,720
Speaker 1: any of these surviving roommates might have had another guest

438
00:27:42,840 --> 00:27:45,320
Speaker 1: who was over at the time. So there are still

439
00:27:45,400 --> 00:27:49,040
Speaker 1: questions out there regarding the DNA that was recovered from

440
00:27:49,040 --> 00:27:51,680
Speaker 1: the crime scene, and whether police don't have the answer,

441
00:27:51,760 --> 00:27:55,000
Speaker 1: or whether they're choosing not to provide the answer is

442
00:27:55,000 --> 00:27:57,160
Speaker 1: a different question in and of itself. I don't think

443
00:27:57,200 --> 00:28:01,000
Speaker 1: they processed it yet. I don't mean haven't assessed the home.

444
00:28:01,240 --> 00:28:03,280
Speaker 1: I think they have done that and they're closing that down,

445
00:28:03,560 --> 00:28:07,040
Speaker 1: but I don't think it's all been analyzed. Here's another

446
00:28:07,080 --> 00:28:10,800
Speaker 1: thing that we're just learning, and anybody jump in because

447
00:28:10,840 --> 00:28:13,960
Speaker 1: I have some ideas about what this means forensically, and

448
00:28:14,040 --> 00:28:16,080
Speaker 1: a lot of people are talking about the vigil today

449
00:28:16,160 --> 00:28:19,040
Speaker 1: and I appreciate that, but unless I can get evidence

450
00:28:19,040 --> 00:28:23,320
Speaker 1: out of it, I'd rather forge forward on the probitive

451
00:28:23,400 --> 00:28:27,480
Speaker 1: value of any minute detail that could help catch the killer.

452
00:28:28,640 --> 00:28:32,960
Speaker 1: We are learning that Kelly Gonsalvos and Madison Mogan were

453
00:28:33,160 --> 00:28:36,960
Speaker 1: in the same bed on the top floor, Level three,

454
00:28:37,240 --> 00:28:42,680
Speaker 1: Kelly and Maddie second floor. Ethan Chapin and Xana Crnodle

455
00:28:43,400 --> 00:28:46,040
Speaker 1: they were together on the second floor, probably in the

456
00:28:46,080 --> 00:28:50,120
Speaker 1: same bed. The survivors Dylan Mortenson and Bethany Funk were

457
00:28:50,120 --> 00:28:53,800
Speaker 1: both sleeping on the first floor. That gives me a

458
00:28:53,880 --> 00:28:57,680
Speaker 1: lot of information that tells me why the survivors didn't

459
00:28:57,680 --> 00:29:00,840
Speaker 1: hear anything. The four victims were sleeping and just two beds.

460
00:29:00,840 --> 00:29:04,520
Speaker 1: They were all together in two different rooms on upper levels.

461
00:29:04,760 --> 00:29:07,760
Speaker 1: No wonder they didn't hear anything, but just got Morgan.

462
00:29:08,000 --> 00:29:10,120
Speaker 1: The fact that you've got two victims in one bed,

463
00:29:10,280 --> 00:29:13,360
Speaker 1: we think two victims in another bed. That tells me,

464
00:29:13,680 --> 00:29:16,560
Speaker 1: it does It tells you that they're not spread out

465
00:29:16,600 --> 00:29:19,160
Speaker 1: over a large area. Okay, like you know, it wasn't

466
00:29:19,240 --> 00:29:22,600
Speaker 1: sneaking door to door like an a harmon. No, no,

467
00:29:22,680 --> 00:29:26,480
Speaker 1: And if you can if if the perpetrator was targeting anybody,

468
00:29:26,600 --> 00:29:28,840
Speaker 1: hate to use that word now, but if if they

469
00:29:28,920 --> 00:29:33,160
Speaker 1: walk into the door, it kind of is. It's It's

470
00:29:33,160 --> 00:29:35,440
Speaker 1: a matter of convenience at that point in time, isn't it.

471
00:29:35,480 --> 00:29:37,640
Speaker 1: Because you've got the you got the Vico. Don't get

472
00:29:37,680 --> 00:29:41,560
Speaker 1: something though, Joe Scott. You go in to one room,

473
00:29:42,560 --> 00:29:46,400
Speaker 1: you find your victim, you killed two of them. Why

474
00:29:46,800 --> 00:29:51,320
Speaker 1: do you go on up to the next floor. Why

475
00:29:51,800 --> 00:29:54,640
Speaker 1: do you do that? It seems risky to me. I

476
00:29:54,720 --> 00:29:57,000
Speaker 1: was just actually talking about this with my wife over

477
00:29:57,080 --> 00:29:59,480
Speaker 1: coffee this morning, because you know, you've got Bundy did it.

478
00:30:00,160 --> 00:30:04,480
Speaker 1: You're talking about the two victims downstairs that were not touched.

479
00:30:04,760 --> 00:30:08,280
Speaker 1: Did did this individual? Did this individual think that they

480
00:30:08,280 --> 00:30:10,400
Speaker 1: were pushing the boundaries at that point in time? Decided

481
00:30:10,440 --> 00:30:12,160
Speaker 1: to get out because I think whoever did this had

482
00:30:12,200 --> 00:30:15,840
Speaker 1: familiarity with the with the location, and so why would

483
00:30:15,880 --> 00:30:19,479
Speaker 1: you go up a staircase and eradicate to it heard

484
00:30:19,600 --> 00:30:23,560
Speaker 1: a dog barking? Joy? Why are we assuming he went

485
00:30:23,640 --> 00:30:26,800
Speaker 1: up the staircase. Perhaps he was hiding at the upper

486
00:30:27,280 --> 00:30:34,200
Speaker 1: floor of the house. Good point his creepy, creepy killing fantasy.

487
00:30:34,640 --> 00:30:37,200
Speaker 1: I am assuming that it went from one floor to

488
00:30:37,280 --> 00:30:40,440
Speaker 1: the next, regardless of where he started. And that is

489
00:30:40,560 --> 00:30:45,320
Speaker 1: why do you kill two people in bed and then go, hey,

490
00:30:45,360 --> 00:30:47,760
Speaker 1: there's some more people to kill. I'll run down there.

491
00:30:48,200 --> 00:30:51,200
Speaker 1: That's what Bundy did. We would have a lot of

492
00:30:51,360 --> 00:30:55,440
Speaker 1: jamiliarity killing people. Bundy had never been in the ky

493
00:30:55,520 --> 00:31:00,840
Speaker 1: Omega house before. Well, he neither lot of girls in there.

494
00:31:01,000 --> 00:31:03,720
Speaker 1: When you look from the back of the property in

495
00:31:03,920 --> 00:31:07,360
Speaker 1: the building, you only see two floors, and so if

496
00:31:07,400 --> 00:31:10,000
Speaker 1: you're out there watching for a period of time exactly

497
00:31:10,120 --> 00:31:13,280
Speaker 1: may not have realized there was that bottom floor. Hey,

498
00:31:13,760 --> 00:31:17,560
Speaker 1: Haley in the studio, can you show that three levels

499
00:31:17,800 --> 00:31:21,160
Speaker 1: what del Carson is talking about. If you're on the

500
00:31:21,200 --> 00:31:23,920
Speaker 1: sliding glass door level, that's your point of entry, you

501
00:31:23,960 --> 00:31:26,880
Speaker 1: don't even see I'm calling it in the basement, but

502
00:31:27,240 --> 00:31:29,320
Speaker 1: you've got a ground entrance to it. You don't even

503
00:31:29,360 --> 00:31:45,080
Speaker 1: see that. So Carson could be Right Time Stories with

504
00:31:45,160 --> 00:31:54,240
Speaker 1: Nancy Grace. Guys. Now, another theory has reared its ugly head,

505
00:31:54,640 --> 00:32:01,080
Speaker 1: the possibility of an end cell, an involuntary celibate. Listen

506
00:32:01,160 --> 00:32:06,640
Speaker 1: to Jonathan Gilliam. He also is a former FBI agent,

507
00:32:07,040 --> 00:32:10,960
Speaker 1: and he's being interviewed on Fox. I'm pretty sure that

508
00:32:11,040 --> 00:32:14,120
Speaker 1: this was a young male somebody who could get into

509
00:32:14,160 --> 00:32:17,600
Speaker 1: the house and get out in that neighborhood without being seen.

510
00:32:17,720 --> 00:32:20,440
Speaker 1: I don't think it was two people, because the more

511
00:32:20,480 --> 00:32:23,240
Speaker 1: people you have going into that house than were likely

512
00:32:23,480 --> 00:32:25,000
Speaker 1: it is that they were going to be seen. So

513
00:32:25,080 --> 00:32:27,720
Speaker 1: I think it's one male, young enough to have been

514
00:32:27,760 --> 00:32:30,880
Speaker 1: in that neighborhood. I think the potential is that they

515
00:32:31,000 --> 00:32:33,520
Speaker 1: entered from the second floor, because the first floor was

516
00:32:33,600 --> 00:32:38,040
Speaker 1: never disturbed, and there's also a wooded area behind that house.

517
00:32:38,560 --> 00:32:41,840
Speaker 1: But here's an important thing that I think people should realize.

518
00:32:42,200 --> 00:32:45,120
Speaker 1: This is probably not the first time that this person

519
00:32:45,240 --> 00:32:48,600
Speaker 1: did this. Yeah, he's right, or did something similar some

520
00:32:48,720 --> 00:32:55,800
Speaker 1: type of crime to go from again, jump in Joe Scott. Okay,

521
00:32:56,120 --> 00:32:57,920
Speaker 1: we know that two of the victims had been at

522
00:32:57,920 --> 00:33:01,080
Speaker 1: a fraternity party. All right, A check this out. The

523
00:33:02,160 --> 00:33:06,280
Speaker 1: distance from that particular fraternity house to the location of

524
00:33:06,280 --> 00:33:09,800
Speaker 1: the crimes on foot walking on a sidewalk is half

525
00:33:09,800 --> 00:33:12,840
Speaker 1: a mile. Did you know that from the location of

526
00:33:12,880 --> 00:33:17,360
Speaker 1: the backside of the fraternity house to the location is

527
00:33:17,360 --> 00:33:21,560
Speaker 1: about two hundred yards. It's not that far away. And

528
00:33:22,840 --> 00:33:26,680
Speaker 1: with fraternity parties. The way it works that you know,

529
00:33:26,720 --> 00:33:29,520
Speaker 1: I'm a university professor. The way it works now is

530
00:33:29,520 --> 00:33:32,240
Speaker 1: that you have to have a guest list of everybody

531
00:33:32,280 --> 00:33:35,320
Speaker 1: that's going to come in and at least at our university,

532
00:33:35,400 --> 00:33:39,040
Speaker 1: and you can only get any animal house right if not, Yeah,

533
00:33:39,120 --> 00:33:42,040
Speaker 1: but it's a brave new world now, Nancy, they controlled

534
00:33:42,040 --> 00:33:45,560
Speaker 1: the door at these points, um, and so you would

535
00:33:45,560 --> 00:33:47,680
Speaker 1: have a guest list. I'd like to know if the

536
00:33:47,760 --> 00:33:52,200
Speaker 1: party that they were having that night was a scheduled party,

537
00:33:52,280 --> 00:33:54,720
Speaker 1: that it was approved by IFC or whoever it is,

538
00:33:55,000 --> 00:33:57,400
Speaker 1: or if it was just a random gathering of people,

539
00:33:57,960 --> 00:34:00,840
Speaker 1: because this is significant, particularly when you're talking about and

540
00:34:01,000 --> 00:34:04,680
Speaker 1: we all know there on Greek Road, which we pointed

541
00:34:04,720 --> 00:34:06,800
Speaker 1: out on day one, I think I hear Stephanie pagun

542
00:34:06,960 --> 00:34:09,439
Speaker 1: Is jumping in. Did you hear what he said that

543
00:34:09,520 --> 00:34:12,319
Speaker 1: if you cut through the woods, not stay on the

544
00:34:12,360 --> 00:34:15,640
Speaker 1: sidewalk on the road, it's less in a football field

545
00:34:15,719 --> 00:34:19,279
Speaker 1: length from the back of the fraternity houses to the

546
00:34:19,400 --> 00:34:23,400
Speaker 1: murder house. It absolutely is. And I would even venture

547
00:34:23,440 --> 00:34:25,440
Speaker 1: to say, I'm sorry for cutting you off there, Joe Scott,

548
00:34:25,480 --> 00:34:28,319
Speaker 1: we don't care. I would even venture to say it's

549
00:34:28,480 --> 00:34:32,760
Speaker 1: less than two hundred yards. I am here, and many students,

550
00:34:32,840 --> 00:34:35,920
Speaker 1: in fact, even through the snow, will bross through. They

551
00:34:35,960 --> 00:34:38,080
Speaker 1: won't take the sidewalks, they will cross right through the

552
00:34:38,120 --> 00:34:40,640
Speaker 1: grass to go from one side to the other. Not

553
00:34:40,680 --> 00:34:43,000
Speaker 1: only are there fraternity houses up there, but there's also

554
00:34:43,040 --> 00:34:46,840
Speaker 1: at least one sorority house as well. And I actually

555
00:34:46,880 --> 00:34:51,480
Speaker 1: walked from the crime scene too, Sigma Kai the fraternity house,

556
00:34:51,880 --> 00:34:55,040
Speaker 1: and on my walk earlier this week, I could see

557
00:34:55,080 --> 00:34:58,520
Speaker 1: only one surveillance camera on the street. But there's been

558
00:34:58,520 --> 00:35:01,560
Speaker 1: a question of whether or not the camera was installed

559
00:35:01,960 --> 00:35:05,040
Speaker 1: before this crime occurred or after, because we have heard

560
00:35:05,080 --> 00:35:08,600
Speaker 1: that many have since been taking more precautions, such as

561
00:35:08,719 --> 00:35:13,640
Speaker 1: installing surveillance devices. Hey, guys, speaking of the whole was

562
00:35:13,680 --> 00:35:17,280
Speaker 1: that Bethany go ahead well with the cell? Yeah, Hey, Bethany,

563
00:35:17,400 --> 00:35:20,800
Speaker 1: take a listen to Jim Murray inside Edition. He's fucking

564
00:35:20,880 --> 00:35:22,880
Speaker 1: right to your point. There has been a rash of

565
00:35:22,960 --> 00:35:26,400
Speaker 1: killing spree by in cells. Elliott Roger killed six and

566
00:35:26,480 --> 00:35:30,280
Speaker 1: wounded fourteen at the University of California Santa Barbara campus

567
00:35:30,440 --> 00:35:34,200
Speaker 1: in twenty fourteen, and pretty Idaho victims were also in

568
00:35:34,239 --> 00:35:38,680
Speaker 1: sororities and posted rambunctious videos of life in their party house.

569
00:35:38,800 --> 00:35:42,080
Speaker 1: If you look at the online presence of in cells

570
00:35:42,080 --> 00:35:47,280
Speaker 1: in this country, they are very, very negative and hate

571
00:35:47,280 --> 00:35:51,280
Speaker 1: filled toward beautiful women. In particular. I spoke with Idaho

572
00:35:51,360 --> 00:35:55,439
Speaker 1: State Police Communications Director Aaron Snell. Doesn't in cell fit

573
00:35:55,560 --> 00:35:59,120
Speaker 1: into the potential profile of this killer. We are not

574
00:35:59,200 --> 00:36:02,120
Speaker 1: spick leading at this point in time. When it comes

575
00:36:02,200 --> 00:36:05,840
Speaker 1: available and when it's appropriate, we will release that information. Okay,

576
00:36:05,920 --> 00:36:08,680
Speaker 1: Doctor Bethany, do you're saying, Well, the idea of the

577
00:36:08,719 --> 00:36:12,279
Speaker 1: in cell is that there's involuntary celibacy, right, that he

578
00:36:12,440 --> 00:36:14,560
Speaker 1: just can't get a girl, and because of that he

579
00:36:14,600 --> 00:36:17,439
Speaker 1: hates girls. He's jealous of anybody can get a girl.

580
00:36:17,840 --> 00:36:21,080
Speaker 1: But in cells, the way they kill is sort of unique,

581
00:36:21,080 --> 00:36:23,760
Speaker 1: and that they do that of fish and a barrel

582
00:36:23,880 --> 00:36:26,359
Speaker 1: kind of shooting like we see in mass murders. They

583
00:36:26,400 --> 00:36:29,400
Speaker 1: want to terrorize and take out as many people as possible.

584
00:36:29,920 --> 00:36:32,520
Speaker 1: So on the one hand, these were beautiful young women

585
00:36:32,640 --> 00:36:36,480
Speaker 1: and possibly one boyfriend of one of the girls. On

586
00:36:36,560 --> 00:36:39,040
Speaker 1: the other hand, it was stealth. It was in the dark,

587
00:36:39,200 --> 00:36:42,040
Speaker 1: no one else could see it, So there wasn't this

588
00:36:42,160 --> 00:36:46,959
Speaker 1: a glory mass shooting where the killer triumphs over everybody else,

589
00:36:46,960 --> 00:36:48,640
Speaker 1: which I think is more the pattern of the in

590
00:36:48,719 --> 00:36:52,400
Speaker 1: cell one of the ideas about the fraternity. You know,

591
00:36:52,840 --> 00:36:55,680
Speaker 1: I keep thinking about BTK not to lead us down

592
00:36:55,760 --> 00:37:01,840
Speaker 1: the rabbit hole of other se or the dog catcher. Yeah, yeah,

593
00:37:01,880 --> 00:37:04,840
Speaker 1: this guy, which is really common with serial killers, was

594
00:37:04,960 --> 00:37:08,320
Speaker 1: hiding him plain sight. He was married, had children, and

595
00:37:08,360 --> 00:37:11,799
Speaker 1: had a family vehicle. Deacon at the local church, you know,

596
00:37:12,000 --> 00:37:14,160
Speaker 1: he was sort of like the local baton. Before you

597
00:37:14,200 --> 00:37:17,719
Speaker 1: say another word, I can't believe you're bringing up Dennis

598
00:37:17,800 --> 00:37:20,960
Speaker 1: Writer buying torture kill because I woke up in the

599
00:37:21,000 --> 00:37:23,280
Speaker 1: middle of the night thinking about Dennis Writer buying torture

600
00:37:23,360 --> 00:37:26,839
Speaker 1: kill BTK. Why did I wake up thinking about him

601
00:37:26,920 --> 00:37:29,920
Speaker 1: in the middle of the night. What is connecting my

602
00:37:30,120 --> 00:37:35,600
Speaker 1: mind with BTK to this? He would see his victims,

603
00:37:36,520 --> 00:37:41,480
Speaker 1: but he didn't really know them. Go ahead, what else

604
00:37:41,560 --> 00:37:47,400
Speaker 1: in your mind? Well, for one thing, BTK staged he

605
00:37:47,520 --> 00:37:51,280
Speaker 1: had a passing familiarity with each one of his victims.

606
00:37:51,600 --> 00:37:55,399
Speaker 1: He would kill other people in the home that got

607
00:37:55,400 --> 00:37:59,960
Speaker 1: in his way in addition to his target. He watched

608
00:38:00,200 --> 00:38:03,200
Speaker 1: his victims. Remember that was his route as a dogcaster.

609
00:38:03,280 --> 00:38:06,000
Speaker 1: Or he would say them over and over and over.

610
00:38:06,560 --> 00:38:09,279
Speaker 1: Is right? All that's just percolating in my head right now.

611
00:38:09,320 --> 00:38:11,560
Speaker 1: I want to hear your thoughts, see my thoughts to

612
00:38:11,680 --> 00:38:14,640
Speaker 1: piggyback on what you're saying. You know, the idea of

613
00:38:14,640 --> 00:38:17,600
Speaker 1: an in cell or a younger person is a very

614
00:38:17,640 --> 00:38:21,080
Speaker 1: different pattern from BTK, where he was older, he was

615
00:38:21,280 --> 00:38:25,279
Speaker 1: integrated into the community. He was wearing what some researchers

616
00:38:25,360 --> 00:38:28,680
Speaker 1: call the mask of sanity act being normal even when

617
00:38:28,680 --> 00:38:32,680
Speaker 1: he's not. I call it the indisha of reliability. He

618
00:38:32,840 --> 00:38:36,719
Speaker 1: seems like a normal, reliable person. Oh yes, like especially

619
00:38:36,719 --> 00:38:40,520
Speaker 1: being the church deacon. Right, So I what if I

620
00:38:40,560 --> 00:38:43,359
Speaker 1: were the police, you know, I would try to put

621
00:38:43,400 --> 00:38:46,200
Speaker 1: out on a plea to the community for people who

622
00:38:46,239 --> 00:38:50,000
Speaker 1: have family members, men in particular, who may have been

623
00:38:50,040 --> 00:38:55,240
Speaker 1: absent or missing that night. Maybe a father who mysteriously

624
00:38:55,320 --> 00:38:58,680
Speaker 1: leaves the house at midnight returns at five in the morning.

625
00:38:58,760 --> 00:39:01,960
Speaker 1: Also thinking about five with a pharmacy tech right under

626
00:39:01,960 --> 00:39:06,640
Speaker 1: everybody's nose, you know somebody, it had to cross somebody's

627
00:39:06,680 --> 00:39:10,560
Speaker 1: mind that this guy was out there wandering around quote

628
00:39:10,560 --> 00:39:13,360
Speaker 1: looking for fish the day of the double murders of

629
00:39:13,440 --> 00:39:17,239
Speaker 1: Libby and Abbey. So we go from the possibility and

630
00:39:17,400 --> 00:39:22,560
Speaker 1: in sell to the awkward next door neighbor. Take a

631
00:39:22,640 --> 00:39:27,600
Speaker 1: listen to Jeremy Reagan, the law student who lives next door,

632
00:39:27,760 --> 00:39:29,719
Speaker 1: talking to our friends at Court TV. I'm naturally an

633
00:39:29,760 --> 00:39:34,080
Speaker 1: awkward person, just my mannerisms, the way I talk. A

634
00:39:34,120 --> 00:39:36,040
Speaker 1: lot of things have been online about Oh, when he

635
00:39:36,080 --> 00:39:38,399
Speaker 1: was talking, he went from present tense to pass ten

636
00:39:38,480 --> 00:39:43,040
Speaker 1: and one of his sentences, partly because everyone corrects themselves

637
00:39:43,040 --> 00:39:47,160
Speaker 1: when they're talking, and so just my natural person, I'm

638
00:39:47,239 --> 00:39:50,000
Speaker 1: a little bit socially awkward. So I might smile at

639
00:39:50,000 --> 00:39:52,600
Speaker 1: points that I shouldn't. I might make weird hand movements

640
00:39:52,600 --> 00:39:55,040
Speaker 1: when I shouldn't, stuff like that, and so people have

641
00:39:55,120 --> 00:39:57,080
Speaker 1: sort of keyed into that and said, oh, he's a weirdo,

642
00:39:57,200 --> 00:40:00,800
Speaker 1: he must be this killer. And so it's just stuff

643
00:40:00,800 --> 00:40:03,040
Speaker 1: like that, and so plus I think it's the amount

644
00:40:03,040 --> 00:40:05,520
Speaker 1: of interviews I've done because I have a problem saying no,

645
00:40:05,640 --> 00:40:08,240
Speaker 1: because if it's not going to hurt me physically or financially,

646
00:40:08,239 --> 00:40:10,799
Speaker 1: it might as well help someone. Okay, Yeah, it's not him.

647
00:40:11,280 --> 00:40:14,400
Speaker 1: Does anybody agree with me? Hey, you don't see the

648
00:40:14,520 --> 00:40:17,239
Speaker 1: kill are very often, according to lam Line or doing

649
00:40:17,280 --> 00:40:22,560
Speaker 1: interview after interview after interview. No, listen to more of

650
00:40:22,600 --> 00:40:25,319
Speaker 1: Reagan speaking the awkward next door neighbor. I was home,

651
00:40:25,360 --> 00:40:27,760
Speaker 1: I was asleep. I went to bed in around eleven

652
00:40:27,840 --> 00:40:31,719
Speaker 1: thirty ish that night, and so I didn't see or

653
00:40:31,760 --> 00:40:34,319
Speaker 1: hear anything. I didn't know any of them. I had

654
00:40:34,320 --> 00:40:36,560
Speaker 1: seen them just walking around what I would take my

655
00:40:36,600 --> 00:40:39,759
Speaker 1: dog out, so I would recognize them, but I didn't

656
00:40:39,760 --> 00:40:41,960
Speaker 1: actually know their names because I just don't stop and

657
00:40:42,200 --> 00:40:44,440
Speaker 1: introduce myself to people that. As I had mentioned in

658
00:40:44,440 --> 00:40:46,400
Speaker 1: one of the other interviews, I usually carry a weapon

659
00:40:46,400 --> 00:40:48,200
Speaker 1: on me now, whereas I didn't use too when I

660
00:40:48,200 --> 00:40:50,960
Speaker 1: moved up to Moscow, just because it was such a

661
00:40:50,960 --> 00:40:55,279
Speaker 1: safe community. Well, that's a lot of information that nobody asked.

662
00:40:55,320 --> 00:41:00,200
Speaker 1: Yet it's not him. What about the theory of he's

663
00:41:00,200 --> 00:41:03,759
Speaker 1: just been sorry, he's not being kg or evasive, He's

664
00:41:03,760 --> 00:41:06,120
Speaker 1: throwing in so many details. What about the idea of

665
00:41:06,160 --> 00:41:09,040
Speaker 1: a person that lives nearby that could have been watching them,

666
00:41:09,080 --> 00:41:12,799
Speaker 1: possibly with binoculars or spying on them. Back to your

667
00:41:12,840 --> 00:41:17,560
Speaker 1: Dinnish writer comparison. Well, I remember reading some very interesting

668
00:41:17,560 --> 00:41:20,759
Speaker 1: research a number of years ago about the demographics of

669
00:41:21,200 --> 00:41:25,120
Speaker 1: men who kill university students, and they've said, I think,

670
00:41:25,160 --> 00:41:27,279
Speaker 1: if I remember correctly, the men were usually in their

671
00:41:27,360 --> 00:41:31,520
Speaker 1: late twenties, early thirty single, low wage jobs. These are

672
00:41:31,560 --> 00:41:34,720
Speaker 1: not university students who are going to a fraternity party.

673
00:41:34,800 --> 00:41:37,880
Speaker 1: These are creepers, right, And that they would watch the

674
00:41:38,040 --> 00:41:43,239
Speaker 1: victims for a long long time before they actually killed them. So,

675
00:41:43,640 --> 00:41:46,520
Speaker 1: you know, like I said earlier, it points to a

676
00:41:46,600 --> 00:41:50,560
Speaker 1: perpetrator who is already developing a relationship in his mind

677
00:41:50,840 --> 00:41:54,520
Speaker 1: and his mind which is imported in his mind. Jephanie

678
00:41:54,560 --> 00:41:58,200
Speaker 1: Pagun is joining us from the there in Moscow, Crime

679
00:41:58,280 --> 00:42:02,400
Speaker 1: and Poorer Fox News Digital. They're wrapping up the processing

680
00:42:02,440 --> 00:42:05,959
Speaker 1: of the home. People are all over the cops backs

681
00:42:05,960 --> 00:42:08,240
Speaker 1: because we don't have a suspect yet. I'm not surprised

682
00:42:08,320 --> 00:42:11,200
Speaker 1: we don't have a suspect. I'll be shocked if we

683
00:42:11,239 --> 00:42:17,080
Speaker 1: did have a suspect. This is a painstaking ordeal processing

684
00:42:17,160 --> 00:42:21,360
Speaker 1: all of these hundreds and hundreds of exhibits and blood samples.

685
00:42:21,760 --> 00:42:26,520
Speaker 1: What's next? Stephanie pegonis so even when the crime scene

686
00:42:26,600 --> 00:42:29,759
Speaker 1: does get lifted, and we don't have a time frame

687
00:42:29,840 --> 00:42:32,720
Speaker 1: as to when that will be other than then. Other

688
00:42:32,800 --> 00:42:35,920
Speaker 1: than that that is a discussion right now, but the

689
00:42:36,040 --> 00:42:40,200
Speaker 1: crime will carry on. All this means when the crime

690
00:42:40,239 --> 00:42:43,239
Speaker 1: scene is lifted is frankly, that they have everything they

691
00:42:43,280 --> 00:42:46,680
Speaker 1: think they need from that area and they will continue investigating.

692
00:42:47,040 --> 00:42:51,320
Speaker 1: Like you said, Nancy, this is an incredibly complicated investigation

693
00:42:51,719 --> 00:42:54,640
Speaker 1: because not only were there half a dozen people at

694
00:42:54,719 --> 00:42:57,759
Speaker 1: least in the home at the time, but these survivors

695
00:42:57,800 --> 00:43:01,120
Speaker 1: then called people to the home. More people came, which

696
00:43:01,200 --> 00:43:04,400
Speaker 1: creates more forensic evidence that they have to go through.

697
00:43:05,320 --> 00:43:07,399
Speaker 1: Another thing that I just want to add in terms

698
00:43:07,440 --> 00:43:10,880
Speaker 1: of what we were just discussing, I think sometimes the

699
00:43:10,920 --> 00:43:15,200
Speaker 1: reader or the listener might view this home as being

700
00:43:15,239 --> 00:43:18,040
Speaker 1: in an area where there aren't many other homes nearby,

701
00:43:18,120 --> 00:43:20,520
Speaker 1: and I just want to note that this is an

702
00:43:20,560 --> 00:43:24,560
Speaker 1: area where there are several buildings or residences nearby. They

703
00:43:24,600 --> 00:43:26,920
Speaker 1: might not be high rises, and they're not high rises,

704
00:43:26,960 --> 00:43:32,040
Speaker 1: but there are multi multi family apartments very close, easily

705
00:43:32,120 --> 00:43:36,359
Speaker 1: within walking distance and within frankly only a few feet

706
00:43:36,400 --> 00:43:40,080
Speaker 1: in some cases. Well, you know, Stephanie begonis that is

707
00:43:40,239 --> 00:43:46,000
Speaker 1: very important. It certainly widens the suspect pool possibilities. Guys

708
00:43:46,000 --> 00:43:49,600
Speaker 1: A Tip Line two zero eight eight eight three seven

709
00:43:49,840 --> 00:43:55,400
Speaker 1: zero five four. We pray for justice. Goodbye fl