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Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie and Samantha.

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Speaker 2: I'm welcome to stefan Never Told You production of iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 2: And recently we got a listener mail about driving and

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Speaker 2: the history of women and driving, and I am actually

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Speaker 2: really excited to do that episode. I've been looking into it.

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Speaker 2: There is a lot to talk about there. We talked

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Speaker 2: about it in a recent Monday Mini a little bit,

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Speaker 2: but there was a lot of angles I wasn't anticipating

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Speaker 2: in this conversation. In the meantime, we wanted to bring

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Speaker 2: back this classic episode about men and cars, especially I'm

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Speaker 2: getting ready to drive for the first time.

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Speaker 3: In a long time for the holidays, so it's a

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Speaker 3: very busy travel time of the year, so please enjoy

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Speaker 3: this classic episode.

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Speaker 4: Welcome to Stuff Mom Never Told You from how Stuff

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Speaker 4: Works dot com.

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Speaker 1: He Hello, and welcome to the podcast.

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Speaker 5: I'm Caroline and I'm Kristin Kristen and listeners, buckle up,

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Speaker 5: get ready. We're about to turn on the ignition room

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Speaker 5: of this episode looking at women and cars.

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Speaker 6: And we've got a lot of ground to cover.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, we have a lot of miles to go.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, we're going to talk about women, cars, driving, stereotypes,

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Speaker 4: the Industrial Revolution, Emily Post. Yeah.

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Speaker 5: I mean that's like this is get ready, this is

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Speaker 5: going to be a three hour podcast.

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Speaker 6: Be ready. You need to get some snacks for sure, and.

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Speaker 1: Maybe do listen in your car.

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Speaker 6: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I hope you are on a long road trip, very long.

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Speaker 4: Yes, Okay, Well let's start off Caroline.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 5: Well, so, you know, we have a lot of stereotypes

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Speaker 5: about women and driving and women drivers, and I feel

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Speaker 5: like we don't have to educate you on those. We

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Speaker 5: don't have to spend any time talking about what those

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Speaker 5: stereotypes are. But it is interesting to see that so

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Speaker 5: many of them stem from the Industrial Revolution.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, they really started off pretty soon after cars first

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Speaker 4: hit the consumer market. Because once we have the industrial Revolution,

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Speaker 4: we have you know, work moving outside of the home

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Speaker 4: and the emergence of men and women's separate spheres, right,

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Speaker 4: and so.

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Speaker 5: Work is where men go to be manly and make money,

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Speaker 5: and home is where women stay to protect the morality

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Speaker 5: and comfort of the rest of the family. But helping

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Speaker 5: this move outside of the home though, where advances in

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Speaker 5: transportation technology in the second half of the eighteenth century.

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Speaker 5: So you've got horses and buggies moving to carts and

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Speaker 5: you know, train cars and things like that. And then

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Speaker 5: of course you get the automobile.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, and so you have people, mostly men with above

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Speaker 4: average incomes, who are enabled thanks to these.

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Speaker 7: Old school cars, to work farther from home and work

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Speaker 7: in home.

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Speaker 6: Though had very.

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Speaker 4: Different values and this idea of you know, the separate spheres,

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Speaker 4: they should be separate, giving, you know, the aggressiveness of

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Speaker 4: the man's world, like preventing it from infiltrating the more peaceful,

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Speaker 4: moralistic woman's world, because you want to keep the home

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Speaker 4: a more sacred, feminine space for the child rearing.

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Speaker 5: Really right, And so then you have automobiles basically fostering

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Speaker 5: the rise of suburban areas suburbs.

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Speaker 6: So that's an.

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Speaker 5: Even clearer demarcation because you're literally separating the home and

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Speaker 5: the workplace geographically more so than ever before. And if

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Speaker 5: we're looking at the era before nineteen ten, which is

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Speaker 5: interesting society women, if we're looking just at like the

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Speaker 5: uppercroast of society, society women drove for recreation just as

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Speaker 5: freely as their wealthy male counterparts did. They were actually

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Speaker 5: called and Kristen correct me, show schoffuses. I believe it's shoffuses.

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Speaker 5: It's the feminine of chauffeur. So it's such a fun fact.

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Speaker 6: I love it.

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Speaker 4: These wealthy women who were toodling around and their old

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Speaker 4: geloppies were called shoffuses. But their social roles were evident

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Speaker 4: in their driving patterns. These women tended to drive downtown

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Speaker 4: more rarely than men, and they typically stayed within their

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Speaker 4: suburban communities and tended to simply drive to social events,

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Speaker 4: shops and school functions.

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Speaker 5: But you know, those darn gasoline cars sure are dirty

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Speaker 5: and hard to crank up, That's.

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Speaker 4: What I mean, because you literally had to hand crank, Yeah,

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Speaker 4: and you don't want to rip your arm out of

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Speaker 4: the socket or whatever.

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Speaker 6: Of course not.

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Speaker 5: But you know, this was part of an we'll get

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Speaker 5: into marketing and advertising and that kind of stuff in

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Speaker 5: a minute, but like this is part of the whole

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Speaker 5: push of like women are too dainty to drive, and

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Speaker 5: so then you literally see the development of separate spheres

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Speaker 5: in driving too, because we have the development.

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Speaker 6: Of electric cars.

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Speaker 5: Blow my mind, Chris and I did not realize that

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Speaker 5: we had electric cars back then.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, And a lot of the research we're going to

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Speaker 4: talk about was initially conducted by a woman named Virginia Sharp,

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Speaker 4: who is an expert in women's roles in automobile history,

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Speaker 4: and she talks about how the electric car was clearly

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Speaker 4: marketed to women once they were trying to figure out

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Speaker 4: where their foothold would be in the market, they realized, Huh,

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Speaker 4: this car doesn't have to be hand cranked, it's quieter,

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Speaker 4: it can't go as far as a gasoline car.

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Speaker 6: What better like automotive option for women could there be?

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Speaker 2: Right?

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Speaker 5: And so manufactures associate the comfort and convenience and aesthetic

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Speaker 5: appeal with women, linking them to the electric cars, while

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Speaker 5: things like power and range and economy those gas cars

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Speaker 5: which were so powerful and noisy, they were faster, they

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Speaker 5: had greater range, and they had to be cranked, all

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Speaker 5: of that was associated with men.

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Speaker 6: Yeah.

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Speaker 4: In nineteen oh eight, in fact, the year that Henry

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Speaker 4: Ford introduced the Model T, he also bought his wife Clara,

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Speaker 4: a lady appropriate electric car.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, and she would use it for short trips around town.

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Speaker 5: But usually when the driving had to be done, it

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Speaker 5: was all Henry behind the wheel and she was riding shotgun.

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Speaker 5: But so we have magazines at the time which are

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Speaker 5: talking about this automotive trend causes so fancy, but they

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Speaker 5: describe electric vehicles as being perfectly suited to the needs

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Speaker 5: of women.

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Speaker 1: We have the very patronizing author H.

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Speaker 5: Claudie who is talking about electric cars, and he said

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Speaker 5: that they have a circumscribed radius. What a delight it

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Speaker 5: is to have a machine she can run herself with

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Speaker 5: no loss of dignity, for making calls, for shopping for pleasure, ride,

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Speaker 5: and for paying back of small social debt.

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Speaker 8: Well, this is also sort of educating the public that

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Speaker 8: it's okay too for women to drive cars because it

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Speaker 8: can serve this domestic function of getting her from here

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Speaker 8: to there to either.

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Speaker 4: There was one advertisement, for instance, talking about how well

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Speaker 4: you know, a wife can go drive to a farm

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Speaker 4: and pick up fresh produce for her family, or she

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Speaker 4: can safely drive little Johnny to school and back, you know,

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Speaker 4: but it's always within that, as Claudie calls it, the

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Speaker 4: circumscribed radius.

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Speaker 5: Yeah. And so, leading up to World War One we

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Speaker 5: do have more and more articles on electric vehicles or

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Speaker 5: on women drivers, and these features show photographs of women driving,

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Speaker 5: charging and maintaining their electric cars, sort of driving home,

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Speaker 5: sort of driving home.

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Speaker 1: That whole division. Electric clean, quiet cars are for women,

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Speaker 1: the noisier cars are for men.

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Speaker 5: And that's reflected also in an ad for the Detroit Electric,

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Speaker 5: which was the last word in luxury and beauty as

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Speaker 5: well as efficiency. They talk about how to the well

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Speaker 5: bred woman, the Detroit Electric has a particular appeal in it.

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Speaker 5: She can preserve her toilet, immaculate her coiffure, and tax

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Speaker 5: she can drive it with all desired privacy, yet safely

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Speaker 5: in constant touch with the traffic conditions all about her.

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Speaker 4: So this is reminiscent too of when we've talked about

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Speaker 4: how revolutionary the bicycle was for women in transportation, but

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Speaker 4: there were still those concerns about women showing ankle or

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Speaker 4: riding around unchaperoned. And you see a similar kind of

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Speaker 4: like patronizing fear.

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Speaker 6: Of okay, well, well women have left the house.

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Speaker 4: We can't stop them now, so let's just figure out

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Speaker 4: this etiquette and rules for how you can still be

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Speaker 4: ladylife and also be behind the wheel of the car.

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Speaker 7: And what's interesting, though, is you see.

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Speaker 4: The drop off in the electric car because it was

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Speaker 4: more expensive than a gasoline car and clearly really never

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Speaker 4: caught on, partially because of that, because they could never

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Speaker 4: really make them to scale in the same way like Ford,

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Speaker 4: for instance, could make these cheaper model ts and in

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Speaker 4: the nineteen twenties they start having the gasoline car. Companies

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Speaker 4: have to start targeting women because everybody's getting a car,

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Speaker 4: and they were like, well, you know what would make

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Speaker 4: things better for us two cars. Families need to have

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Speaker 4: two cars, and so as they start indoctrinating the public too, well,

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Speaker 4: you don't need just one, you need two. And listen, women,

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Speaker 4: gasoline cars are still going to be okay because you

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Speaker 4: can drive.

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Speaker 6: The kids in them. It's always that the advertising is

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Speaker 6: always you can.

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Speaker 4: Take the kids out to the country to go butterfly

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Speaker 4: catching orself.

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Speaker 1: You'll be a better mother if you can drive your kids.

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Speaker 7: To seat, you will be a better wife and a

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Speaker 7: better mother with a car.

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Speaker 4: It's fascinating the kind of the way that they advertise

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Speaker 4: cars to women.

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Speaker 5: Right, But so I mean, speaking of electric cars with

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Speaker 5: having such a circumscribed radius, As Claudie said, there were

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Speaker 5: some pretty fancy ladies out there motoring around on long

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Speaker 5: distances and writing about them. During World War One, for instance,

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Speaker 5: you have young women of means, many of whom were

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Speaker 5: graduates of Vassar and Wellesley who were trained as nurses,

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Speaker 5: had their fancy cars shipped to Europe. It was kind

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Speaker 5: of like an adventure travel experience. They ended up volunteering

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Speaker 5: as nurses and driving injured soldiers to military hospitals.

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Speaker 4: And there were also books that were starting to pop

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Speaker 4: up about accounts of these female road trips. For instance,

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Speaker 4: in nineteen oh eight, Edith Wharton, yes that Edith Wharton

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Speaker 4: wrote one of the earliest travel books about.

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Speaker 7: An auto journey called a Motor Flight through France.

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Speaker 5: And in nineteen sixteen we have the first commercially successful

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Speaker 5: book published by Emily Post later Etiquette Expert, and it

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Speaker 5: was an account of her cross country journey in a car.

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Speaker 4: And in the nineteen twenties, the book Travels with Zenobia

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Speaker 4: Zenobia by the way, it was the name of a car.

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Speaker 4: It provided a detailed account of a trip by two

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Speaker 4: American women from Paris to Albania in a model Ford

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Speaker 4: and one of the authors was Daughter of Little House

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Speaker 4: in the Prairie author Laura Ingles Wilder. But these kinds

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Speaker 4: of tales of women driving and also women were competing

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Speaker 4: every now and then in cross country road trips, sometimes

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Speaker 4: beating men and like making a name for themselves and

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Speaker 4: making all these headlines because it was revolutionary for women

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Speaker 4: to be driving.

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Speaker 6: But even though you have the new woman.

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Speaker 4: Emerging at the same time who was a bit more

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Speaker 4: feminist and a bit more liberated, it was kind of

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Speaker 4: terrifying for more conservative folks at the time who did

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Speaker 4: not want to see women like ironically Emily pos driving

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Speaker 4: all around I know.

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Speaker 5: How scandalous. So by the nineteen twenties and thirties, as

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Speaker 5: Kristen said, it was becoming more accepted that women, Look,

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Speaker 5: women are going to have to use the freaking car. Okay,

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Speaker 5: electric cars just aren't cutting it. We're going to have

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Speaker 5: to drive kids to school, and that's gonna have to

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Speaker 5: be okay. But that is sort of the image that

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Speaker 5: was pushed by both conservatives and advertisers as part of

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Speaker 5: like the car still being part of your domestic sphere.

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Speaker 5: And while society was changing and that was terrifying for

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Speaker 5: a lot of people, we could still maybe we can

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Speaker 5: still use this scary new technology to keep women in

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Speaker 5: their place.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, when I first started reading about the history of

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Speaker 4: women in cars, I expected to see a trend in

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Speaker 4: this earliest advertising of selling cars to women on the

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Speaker 4: basis of that kind of new woman. Hey, ladies, here's

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Speaker 4: the keys to your liberation. But no, it was completely

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Speaker 4: the opposite. The heads of these companies and advertisers at

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Speaker 4: the time were saying no, no, no.

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Speaker 6: No, we need to we need to.

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Speaker 4: Keep the status quo, but still sell these cars. And

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Speaker 4: it was all too like largely a product of suburbanization.

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Speaker 4: Like they were kind of painted into a corner of like, well, women,

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Speaker 4: you gotta drive.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, But so all of this strategy that's going on

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Speaker 5: in this time from conservative Society members and from advertisers,

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Speaker 5: part of the strategy was to paint women as completely

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Speaker 5: incompetent when it comes to cars, whether knowing anything about them,

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Speaker 5: understanding how they work. It was sort of assumed that

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Speaker 5: women were only interested in the style or in the

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Speaker 5: color or how it would match their dress or their

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Speaker 5: nail polish or something. And it's not to say that

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Speaker 5: was true or to say that it was untrue in

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Speaker 5: some cases, but just that that was the image that

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Speaker 5: was pushed by people who did not want women to

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Speaker 5: be out driving around independent.

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Speaker 7: Yeah.

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Speaker 4: Even though even at this time in the nineteen twenties,

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Speaker 4: women were making forty one percent of household car buying decisions,

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Speaker 4: had a voice in what cars.

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Speaker 6: Would be bought.

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Speaker 4: But over and over again you have this, you know,

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Speaker 4: reiteration that women basically just want cars with interiors to

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Speaker 4: match their coats.

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Speaker 5: He wrote ridiculous things like quote, boys and men, on

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Speaker 5: the average greatly exceed women and girls in the ability

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Speaker 5: to manipulate mechanical contrivances, and as a result, women shrink

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Speaker 5: from acting when facing a crisis, work by fits and

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Speaker 5: starts when under high pressure, and work well consistently only

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Speaker 5: when there is no pressure. He describes women as being

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Speaker 5: over cautious, making poorer drivers than men. He says they

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Speaker 5: cause more accidents, and then he goes so far as

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Speaker 5: to say that, owing to their inferior motor outlets, i e.

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Speaker 5: Like their motor skills, not motor car, but like their brains,

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Speaker 5: women succeed best in relatively simple motor activities such as sweeping, washing,

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Speaker 5: and ironing.

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Speaker 6: I would just like to say that I'm horrible at

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Speaker 6: ironing and only fair at sweeping. So Walter Pitkin put

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Speaker 6: that in your pipe.

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Speaker 5: That's right.

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Speaker 4: Well, And it wasn't just guys like Pitkin who were

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Speaker 4: saying this. There was also a woman named Alice Hamilton

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Speaker 4: who was riding in the late nineteen twenties early nineteen thirties,

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Speaker 4: describing for the public what women really think about when

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Speaker 4: car shopping. One choice quote was, she considers how her foot, ankle,

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Speaker 4: and calf will look as she steps smartly upon the

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Speaker 4: running board. Does this fawn gray upholstery go with most

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Speaker 4: of her clothes?

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Speaker 6: Alice? Which I think?

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Speaker 5: Alice, Come on, well, okay, let's counter that Alice with

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Speaker 5: automobile adventuress Alice Heuler Ramsey, to whom I hope I

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Speaker 5: am related. I have Ramses in my family. It would

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Speaker 5: be fantastic if she and I were relatives. Anyway, She

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Speaker 5: became famous by driving across country with three women passengers

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Speaker 5: in a Maxwell Brisco Model double A. It's a gasoline car,

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Speaker 5: non electric car, and it was part of a promotion

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Speaker 5: to sell the car. It was more affordable than other models,

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Speaker 5: and so it was kind of a promotional thing. But

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Speaker 5: Alice didn't this, Alice the Cool Alice didn't stop there.

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Speaker 5: She actually soon after was defeating men in races at

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Speaker 5: county fairs, at state fairs, and she ended up getting

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Speaker 5: herself banned from Race Car Driver.

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Speaker 6: Association because she was too good.

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Speaker 1: Just too good.

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Speaker 6: That's hilarious.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, there was really no empirical data whatsoever to back

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Speaker 4: up these claims that women were awful drivers, and clearly,

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Speaker 4: like the cool alice proved, women.

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Speaker 6: Could be perfectly capable.

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Speaker 4: But it's just this message that we've been told over

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Speaker 4: and over again women are horrible drivers, and they don't

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Speaker 4: care anything about mechanics or how you know, speG. Saw

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Speaker 4: a car actually runs. We just want something apparently that

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Speaker 4: looks pretty. But there was one segment of the population

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Speaker 4: that was a bit of an exception to these rules

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Speaker 4: that kind of dodgey stereotypes that Virginia Chef talks about,

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Speaker 4: which were farm girls, women who are out in the

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Speaker 4: country who perhaps weren't as impacted by this mass suburbanization,

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Speaker 4: were taught to drive cars in the same way that

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Speaker 4: their brothers would have been.

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Speaker 5: Sure, because all of a sudden, now you know, so

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Speaker 5: you're on a farm, you're out in the rural country,

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Speaker 5: far away from cities, city centers. But all of a sudden,

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Speaker 5: now you've got a car or a truck that you

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Speaker 5: can load up with all of your goods and take

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Speaker 5: to the market instead of a horse drawn buggy or

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Speaker 5: whatever you were using before. Yeah, so you know it

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Speaker 5: made sense. You only had a certain number of people

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Speaker 5: working on your farm. You had to make good use

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Speaker 5: of everybody.

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Speaker 4: And so this lays the foundation for where these car

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Speaker 4: stereotypes about women come into play from the get go,

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Speaker 4: and today we still see ripple effects of that when

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Speaker 4: you look at who does the driving. So today more

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Speaker 4: women than men have driver's licenses, at least in the

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Speaker 4: United States, and this is probably a little bit due

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Speaker 4: to there being a few more women on the planet

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Speaker 4: than men. But according to the University of Michigan's Transportation

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Speaker 4: Research Unit, the study took place between nineteen ninety five

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Speaker 4: and twenty ten.

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Speaker 7: The share of teens and young adults.

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Speaker 4: Of both sexes with driver's licenses is declining, but the

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Speaker 4: decline is actually greatest among young men.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, so for men ages twenty five to twenty nine

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Speaker 5: with licenses that dipped ten point six percent, but among

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Speaker 5: women of the same age group that only declined four.

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Speaker 1: Point seven percent. So it's like a war of attrition whatever.

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Speaker 5: But this has serious implications for the industry because women

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Speaker 5: and men are not shopping for the same cars. Necessarily,

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Speaker 5: women are more likely than men to purchase smaller, safer,

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Speaker 5: and more fuel efficient vehicles. We're also more likely to

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Speaker 5: drive less and to have a lower fatality rate per

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Speaker 5: distance driven.

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Speaker 4: Which is hilarious because you and I both drive compact

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Speaker 4: hatchbacks that are extremely safe.

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Speaker 6: That's right, we totally fit into that.

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Speaker 4: We do mold and this has been part of a

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Speaker 4: longer trend in terms of women essentially catching up to

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Speaker 4: men in the number of drivers out on the road.

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Speaker 6: And now eclipsing them.

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Speaker 4: And some theories behind the decline, particularly of young male

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Speaker 4: license holders, are things like technology making face to face

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Speaker 4: connections less important, the erosion of the quote unquote car

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Speaker 4: fetish society, and also economic troubles. Kids these days are

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Speaker 4: less likely to have an income large enough to.

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Speaker 6: Be able to afford to buy a car.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, to buy a car, or to afford auto insurance.

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Speaker 5: Side note, I love that you said kids these days,

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Speaker 5: kids these.

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Speaker 7: Days, I know and assigned that. I think I just

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Speaker 7: sprouted four new gray hairs.

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Speaker 6: And I said that.

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Speaker 5: But the number of young people working has declined, so

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Speaker 5: they're making less money. But the number of young men

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Speaker 5: ages eighteen to thirty four living at home has surged,

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Speaker 5: So maybe that's also a reason that fewer men are

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Speaker 5: holding licenses and drive cars.

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Speaker 1: Maybe it's because Mom is still driving them.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean, and that's more guys than young women

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Speaker 4: who are also returning home, even though I mean it

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Speaker 4: is more of a millennial trend, being like the boomerang

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Speaker 4: kids who leave and then come back.

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Speaker 6: But I also think, Caroline, I have.

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Speaker 4: A pet theory as well that cars for people our

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Speaker 4: age and younger just might not be seen as as

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Speaker 4: much of a necessity because rather than the suburbanization of

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Speaker 4: the baby boom generation, we're far more about urbanization public transit.

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Speaker 6: Like it's cool to take the train when you can.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I miss it. I'm moved and can no longer well.

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Speaker 4: And we also, I'm sure have plenty of listeners who

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Speaker 4: prefer to bike places.

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Speaker 6: Sure as well.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, but even though in raw numbers more women have

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Speaker 4: driver's licenses in their wallets, when a guy and a

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Speaker 4: woman get in the car together, there is a good

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Speaker 4: chance that he he is gonna drive. And that's the

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Speaker 4: same thing for my boyfriend and me. We ride around,

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Speaker 4: he's probably driving. So we're gonna look into this persistent

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Speaker 4: pattern of men being the drivers when we come right

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Speaker 4: back from a quick break.

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Speaker 7: And now back to the show.

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Speaker 5: So Kristen was just telling us before the break about

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Speaker 5: how when she's in the car with her boyfriend, he's

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Speaker 5: more likely to drive.

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Speaker 1: I feel like when I'm in the car with my boyfriend, he.

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Speaker 5: Would laugh if we even started talking about this, because

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Speaker 5: I'm such a control freak, especially like I know Atlanta

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Speaker 5: better than he does. I'm more of an aggressive driver

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Speaker 5: than he is, and I think you kind of have

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Speaker 5: to be to drive in Atlanta. And so all of

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Speaker 5: those factors combine mean that I normally drive more.

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Speaker 4: See. I prefer to be driven around because it gives

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Speaker 4: me a little bit of me time.

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Speaker 6: That's when I hop on.

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Speaker 4: I'm a smartphone and check my email, get on Twitter.

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Speaker 6: Instat.

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Speaker 4: It seriously feels like extra time in my day. So

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Speaker 4: it is it's purely selfish on my part.

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Speaker 5: See, but I'm kind of I'm kind of the opposite.

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Speaker 5: Like driving means I can't do anything else. Oh yeah,

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Speaker 5: so it's like I have to focus on driving, and

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Speaker 5: but I do.

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Speaker 1: Yell, I'm I'm kind of a road ragie type of person.

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Speaker 6: Oh, I'm super road ragie. I enjoy driving.

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Speaker 7: I do, and I drive myself around a lot.

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Speaker 4: And oh man, yeah, it's not a good idea for

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Speaker 4: small children to be in a car with me because

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Speaker 4: they might hear some some R rated language.

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Speaker 5: Caroline, Well, well, we're just a couple of show fuses.

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Speaker 4: That's right, show that should be our new vanity place effuses.

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Speaker 7: So what is up though with this gender gap?

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Speaker 4: This like kind a fascinating gender gap in car driving

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Speaker 4: and oh I should mention too. Anecdotally, I was talking

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Speaker 4: to Scott Benjamin, who hosts the House Stuff Works podcast

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Speaker 4: car Stuff before we came in the studio and mentioned

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Speaker 4: the day going to talk about women and driving, and

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Speaker 4: we kind of parted ways, and a few minutes later

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Speaker 4: he came back by my desk and said, Kristen, I

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Speaker 4: just realized that in the fifteen years of being married

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Speaker 4: to my wife, he's like, I can probably count on

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Speaker 4: one hand the number of times we've driven, and he

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Speaker 4: had never thought about it before. He's like, we've even

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Speaker 4: taken cross country road trips before, I'll drive the whole

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Speaker 4: way and I.

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Speaker 7: Have is because he prefers it, or it's just kind of.

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Speaker 6: How it's always been done.

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Speaker 4: And when I did a stuff I've never told you

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Speaker 4: video on why men drive more, just because I was

446
00:23:34,320 --> 00:23:38,840
Speaker 4: digging into the research for this episode, and anecdotally it

447
00:23:38,920 --> 00:23:42,200
Speaker 4: seemed like a lot of people. It wasn't necessarily men

448
00:23:42,280 --> 00:23:45,359
Speaker 4: always driving, but in couples there was always a driver.

449
00:23:46,040 --> 00:23:48,879
Speaker 4: One person tended to drive more often than the other person.

450
00:23:49,000 --> 00:23:50,080
Speaker 4: You're pointing at yourself.

451
00:23:50,320 --> 00:23:50,600
Speaker 5: Yeah.

452
00:23:50,640 --> 00:23:53,439
Speaker 7: There were women though, who tweeted us who were.

453
00:23:53,280 --> 00:23:55,520
Speaker 6: Like, I drive, I totally drive. It'saw me.

454
00:23:55,920 --> 00:23:57,680
Speaker 4: So I think it just might be one of those

455
00:23:57,680 --> 00:24:01,000
Speaker 4: couple things where someone ends doing it more often.

456
00:24:01,240 --> 00:24:04,080
Speaker 7: Yeah, I'm kind of like the dishwasher, all right, hat

457
00:24:04,200 --> 00:24:04,560
Speaker 7: that's me.

458
00:24:04,840 --> 00:24:09,440
Speaker 5: I hate the dishwasher. Um then, anyway, not that I

459
00:24:09,480 --> 00:24:11,160
Speaker 5: hate you. I realized that that sounded loud.

460
00:24:11,560 --> 00:24:13,520
Speaker 6: Chrestens the dishwasher, and I hate her. But if you

461
00:24:13,560 --> 00:24:16,280
Speaker 6: want to drive me around, I'll low the dishes. That

462
00:24:16,640 --> 00:24:17,000
Speaker 6: all right?

463
00:24:17,760 --> 00:24:20,520
Speaker 5: So sociologist Pepper Schwartz was looking at that. Pepper Schwartz,

464
00:24:20,520 --> 00:24:23,080
Speaker 5: by the way, sounds like a Marvel Comics name.

465
00:24:23,200 --> 00:24:23,520
Speaker 6: She does.

466
00:24:24,480 --> 00:24:28,080
Speaker 5: Even in self described feminist households, men are more likely

467
00:24:28,119 --> 00:24:30,520
Speaker 5: to drive when couples ride together, and this is confirmed

468
00:24:30,560 --> 00:24:32,800
Speaker 5: by several studies, one of which is the American Time

469
00:24:32,840 --> 00:24:36,720
Speaker 5: Youth Survey that found women do indeeds than a disproportionate

470
00:24:36,760 --> 00:24:39,800
Speaker 5: share of their in car time as passengers twenty nine percent.

471
00:24:39,880 --> 00:24:42,280
Speaker 5: This is more than twice the share of men who

472
00:24:42,440 --> 00:24:45,399
Speaker 5: spend only fourteen percent of their time as passengers.

473
00:24:45,720 --> 00:24:48,800
Speaker 4: And similarly, and this information, by the way, was coming

474
00:24:48,800 --> 00:24:51,240
Speaker 4: from the Freakonomics blog because they did a couple of

475
00:24:51,800 --> 00:24:54,760
Speaker 4: uh posts on this looking at why men tend to

476
00:24:54,840 --> 00:24:57,359
Speaker 4: drive more often, and they also cited the two thousand

477
00:24:57,359 --> 00:25:01,119
Speaker 4: and one National Household Transportation Survey, which found that when

478
00:25:01,280 --> 00:25:04,560
Speaker 4: you have household members sharing a car, men are three

479
00:25:04,800 --> 00:25:09,439
Speaker 4: times likelier to be the driver as opposed to the passenger,

480
00:25:09,880 --> 00:25:12,199
Speaker 4: and for women it's the reverse. When traveling with a

481
00:25:12,200 --> 00:25:15,040
Speaker 4: household member, we're about twice as likely to be the

482
00:25:15,080 --> 00:25:20,720
Speaker 4: passenger as opposed to the driver and for On that blog,

483
00:25:20,760 --> 00:25:23,879
Speaker 4: they solicited reader comments as well, just to get a

484
00:25:23,880 --> 00:25:27,480
Speaker 4: little anecdotal, you know, feedback on why that might be.

485
00:25:27,960 --> 00:25:31,960
Speaker 4: And overwhelmingly, the most common answer as to why the

486
00:25:32,000 --> 00:25:34,200
Speaker 4: men tended to drive more often in their households were

487
00:25:34,240 --> 00:25:35,119
Speaker 4: women saying.

488
00:25:34,960 --> 00:25:37,840
Speaker 6: I just ask him to it's easier.

489
00:25:38,480 --> 00:25:40,720
Speaker 4: It's just, you know, we don't have to talk about it.

490
00:25:40,880 --> 00:25:43,639
Speaker 4: He drives, there's no backseat driving. It gives me a

491
00:25:43,680 --> 00:25:46,400
Speaker 4: little me time and a lot of it's a lot

492
00:25:46,440 --> 00:25:48,159
Speaker 4: of times just kind of it's almost like waving the

493
00:25:48,160 --> 00:25:51,080
Speaker 4: white flag, just like just do it, you do that.

494
00:25:51,920 --> 00:25:54,240
Speaker 5: Yeah, I think my dad always drives when it's the

495
00:25:54,240 --> 00:25:56,159
Speaker 5: two of them. I've never seen my mother drive if

496
00:25:56,200 --> 00:25:57,440
Speaker 5: my dad's in the car. Yeah.

497
00:25:57,520 --> 00:26:00,479
Speaker 4: When I actually talked to my boyfriend about that, and

498
00:26:00,600 --> 00:26:02,600
Speaker 4: he pointed out that a kind of a similar pattern

499
00:26:02,680 --> 00:26:06,000
Speaker 4: with his parents too, and suggested that it's sort of

500
00:26:06,040 --> 00:26:10,960
Speaker 4: that old school chivalry of a lady shipn't drive herself around.

501
00:26:11,560 --> 00:26:14,080
Speaker 6: And I mean because my dad, oh, my dad totally drives.

502
00:26:14,119 --> 00:26:15,920
Speaker 4: I would not want to be in the car if

503
00:26:15,920 --> 00:26:17,840
Speaker 4: my mom was driving it my dad was riding.

504
00:26:17,600 --> 00:26:20,040
Speaker 6: Because it would just be too stressful.

505
00:26:22,080 --> 00:26:23,120
Speaker 1: Lots of backseat.

506
00:26:22,840 --> 00:26:24,639
Speaker 6: Driving, so much backseat driving.

507
00:26:25,040 --> 00:26:28,240
Speaker 5: Well, I mean, even in professional circles, the driving still

508
00:26:28,280 --> 00:26:31,000
Speaker 5: skews mail. We looked at a recent Bureau of Labor

509
00:26:31,040 --> 00:26:35,919
Speaker 5: Statistics report that showed us that the overarching category of

510
00:26:35,960 --> 00:26:40,440
Speaker 5: transportation and material moving occupations is just fifteen point five

511
00:26:40,520 --> 00:26:44,840
Speaker 5: percent women. The area where women are most represented is

512
00:26:44,880 --> 00:26:47,680
Speaker 5: among bus drivers forty five point seven percent of whom

513
00:26:47,720 --> 00:26:48,160
Speaker 5: are women.

514
00:26:48,600 --> 00:26:50,720
Speaker 4: Yeah, but then if you look at taxi drivers and

515
00:26:50,840 --> 00:26:55,720
Speaker 4: chauffeurs not schoffuses, only just under fifteen percent are women

516
00:26:56,080 --> 00:26:59,640
Speaker 4: and fewer than five percent of what are categorized as

517
00:27:00,080 --> 00:27:02,960
Speaker 4: driver slash sales workers. Basically, the people driving the big

518
00:27:03,040 --> 00:27:07,639
Speaker 4: rigs down the highway are women. And one more anecdote.

519
00:27:07,680 --> 00:27:10,199
Speaker 4: I know I'm being very anecdotal today, but I was

520
00:27:10,280 --> 00:27:14,840
Speaker 4: recently in a cab with a female driver and I

521
00:27:14,920 --> 00:27:17,560
Speaker 4: had such a like stuff mom never told you moment

522
00:27:17,560 --> 00:27:20,080
Speaker 4: when I got in and was really pumped to see

523
00:27:20,400 --> 00:27:22,160
Speaker 4: like a woman in the front seat, and I wanted

524
00:27:22,160 --> 00:27:23,760
Speaker 4: to ask for questions, but then I was like, I

525
00:27:23,760 --> 00:27:25,800
Speaker 4: don't want to be that person who because I'm sure

526
00:27:25,840 --> 00:27:28,080
Speaker 4: she gets this all the time, you know, like, oh,

527
00:27:28,119 --> 00:27:30,800
Speaker 4: you're a woman driving a taxi. But I will say

528
00:27:31,440 --> 00:27:34,280
Speaker 4: I gave her an extra big tip because not only

529
00:27:34,359 --> 00:27:36,880
Speaker 4: was it a woman driver. She turned on the car

530
00:27:36,960 --> 00:27:40,879
Speaker 4: Caroline and Madonna came on. I was just like, this

531
00:27:41,040 --> 00:27:43,800
Speaker 4: is amazing, this is this is fun, this is a

532
00:27:43,880 --> 00:27:44,400
Speaker 4: lot of fun.

533
00:27:45,280 --> 00:27:47,440
Speaker 5: I'm just picturing like this movie montage in my head

534
00:27:47,440 --> 00:27:50,159
Speaker 5: of you guys like driving around and the sunshine listening

535
00:27:50,160 --> 00:27:50,680
Speaker 5: to Madonna.

536
00:27:50,800 --> 00:27:53,479
Speaker 4: The thing is, there was that montage going on in

537
00:27:53,600 --> 00:27:56,000
Speaker 4: my head throughout that cab ride.

538
00:27:56,119 --> 00:27:58,879
Speaker 6: I don't I just kept quiet because I was like,

539
00:27:58,920 --> 00:27:59,640
Speaker 6: I'm gonna freak this.

540
00:27:59,560 --> 00:28:02,200
Speaker 4: Woman out my say anything right now, come out of

541
00:28:02,240 --> 00:28:03,360
Speaker 4: the gate to enthusiastic.

542
00:28:03,520 --> 00:28:04,240
Speaker 6: Yeah.

543
00:28:04,240 --> 00:28:07,359
Speaker 1: But so as far as men driving more.

544
00:28:07,160 --> 00:28:10,760
Speaker 5: And that whole stereotypical association we have of men preferring

545
00:28:10,800 --> 00:28:14,520
Speaker 5: cars cars are a man thing, a lot of people

546
00:28:14,560 --> 00:28:17,439
Speaker 5: have questioned whether biology has something to do with it.

547
00:28:17,600 --> 00:28:17,800
Speaker 6: Yeah.

548
00:28:17,840 --> 00:28:21,080
Speaker 4: For instance, there was the study at Canada's John Molson's

549
00:28:21,080 --> 00:28:24,880
Speaker 4: School of Business at current Cordia University in Montreal which

550
00:28:25,119 --> 00:28:30,720
Speaker 4: measured the testosterone of men while driving Porsches and driving Camri's.

551
00:28:31,359 --> 00:28:32,680
Speaker 6: And they had the.

552
00:28:32,640 --> 00:28:37,240
Speaker 4: Men drive on both a crowded street with lots of

553
00:28:37,440 --> 00:28:40,160
Speaker 4: ladies on the sidewalk who would see them driving either

554
00:28:40,200 --> 00:28:44,280
Speaker 4: a Cameray wampomp or a Porsche ooh la la. And

555
00:28:44,760 --> 00:28:49,479
Speaker 4: they found that men's levels of testosterone went up surprise, surprise,

556
00:28:49,520 --> 00:28:52,360
Speaker 4: when they were driving a Porsche, but it was regardless of.

557
00:28:52,320 --> 00:28:54,720
Speaker 6: Whether they were driving around women or not.

558
00:28:56,360 --> 00:28:59,360
Speaker 4: They thought that there was something to do with that

559
00:28:59,440 --> 00:29:04,719
Speaker 4: status being in a Porsche because societally, because of our

560
00:29:04,760 --> 00:29:10,600
Speaker 4: associations with cars masculinity sex, cars are sort of a

561
00:29:10,640 --> 00:29:15,040
Speaker 4: modern form of sexual signaling saying hey, I'm driving this Porsche,

562
00:29:15,160 --> 00:29:17,320
Speaker 4: so means got a lot of money.

563
00:29:17,400 --> 00:29:18,920
Speaker 5: This made me think of when I was in traffic

564
00:29:18,960 --> 00:29:20,760
Speaker 5: the other day waiting to turn and a guy turned

565
00:29:20,800 --> 00:29:23,520
Speaker 5: in front of me in like some little boxy expensive

566
00:29:23,520 --> 00:29:25,160
Speaker 5: sports car and he like.

567
00:29:25,280 --> 00:29:28,440
Speaker 1: Whoa like dred that engine and drove away.

568
00:29:28,440 --> 00:29:30,200
Speaker 5: It was so loud, and I was like, oh, I

569
00:29:30,200 --> 00:29:32,360
Speaker 5: wonder if he's sexually signaling anyone.

570
00:29:32,600 --> 00:29:35,400
Speaker 4: It's probably I think he was probably sexually signaling all

571
00:29:35,440 --> 00:29:40,600
Speaker 4: of Atlanta with that. But the thing is with this study, Caroline,

572
00:29:41,440 --> 00:29:45,000
Speaker 4: they did not include women. I wonder if our levels

573
00:29:45,000 --> 00:29:48,320
Speaker 4: of testosterone would similarly go up, yeah, if we were

574
00:29:48,400 --> 00:29:49,800
Speaker 4: driving a Porsche aarone.

575
00:29:49,720 --> 00:29:51,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, or just like something sporty.

576
00:29:51,200 --> 00:29:54,040
Speaker 5: I know, because this is this is I'm ridiculous.

577
00:29:54,040 --> 00:29:56,120
Speaker 1: But so I used to drive Jeeps. I drove a

578
00:29:56,200 --> 00:29:58,120
Speaker 1: Jeep forever and I heard jeep yeah.

579
00:29:58,120 --> 00:30:01,400
Speaker 5: And I just switched recently to a small little compact

580
00:30:01,440 --> 00:30:04,520
Speaker 5: car that it has a lot of gideap and I

581
00:30:04,560 --> 00:30:07,800
Speaker 5: love being able to like get around people and accelerate

582
00:30:07,880 --> 00:30:09,840
Speaker 5: quickly and all that stuff. And I know, I mean

583
00:30:09,840 --> 00:30:12,280
Speaker 5: there is an exhilarating feeling of like I can get

584
00:30:12,280 --> 00:30:14,960
Speaker 5: out of this traffic mess yeah, and you know, get

585
00:30:15,000 --> 00:30:17,160
Speaker 5: past all these people, Whereas with my Jeep.

586
00:30:16,960 --> 00:30:21,680
Speaker 1: It's like, okayl I'll just sit here, so yeah, come on.

587
00:30:21,920 --> 00:30:23,960
Speaker 5: I would love to see the study replicated with women,

588
00:30:24,040 --> 00:30:26,400
Speaker 5: although they'd have to figure out the conditions on the street,

589
00:30:26,440 --> 00:30:27,840
Speaker 5: Like who would they put on the side of the

590
00:30:27,840 --> 00:30:28,880
Speaker 5: street instead of women?

591
00:30:28,960 --> 00:30:31,200
Speaker 1: Would it have to be like muscling men, Ryan Gosling.

592
00:30:31,360 --> 00:30:34,000
Speaker 4: I think it could still be women because it would

593
00:30:34,000 --> 00:30:36,960
Speaker 4: still I would suspect that there would still be a

594
00:30:37,040 --> 00:30:40,600
Speaker 4: surge in testosterone because it wouldn't be as strong of

595
00:30:40,640 --> 00:30:42,760
Speaker 4: a thing of you know, strong of a.

596
00:30:42,920 --> 00:30:43,920
Speaker 6: Sex signaling effect.

597
00:30:43,960 --> 00:30:46,600
Speaker 4: Probably for a woman to pull up next to a

598
00:30:46,640 --> 00:30:50,520
Speaker 4: guy in a you know, in a convertible and be like, hey, guy,

599
00:30:50,680 --> 00:30:52,440
Speaker 4: you want to get in my car for a variety,

600
00:30:52,560 --> 00:30:56,680
Speaker 4: be like whoa, don't maculate me? Whereas you know, for women,

601
00:30:56,800 --> 00:30:59,320
Speaker 4: I think it would just be like just the joy

602
00:30:59,440 --> 00:31:03,560
Speaker 4: of you know, kind of having that like power symbol

603
00:31:04,080 --> 00:31:04,720
Speaker 4: or yeah.

604
00:31:04,640 --> 00:31:06,680
Speaker 5: Maybe maybe they're signaling to the other woman that they

605
00:31:06,680 --> 00:31:08,280
Speaker 5: are the alpha female exactly.

606
00:31:08,480 --> 00:31:10,400
Speaker 4: Yeah, and it might we might actually have more of

607
00:31:10,440 --> 00:31:12,880
Speaker 4: a surge of test sasterone driving past women than men.

608
00:31:13,080 --> 00:31:16,760
Speaker 5: Yeah. No, that's actually my vanity plate is alpha. That's

609
00:31:16,760 --> 00:31:20,760
Speaker 5: not true. I don't vanity plates are really stupid. And

610
00:31:21,000 --> 00:31:25,520
Speaker 5: wece did take an evolutionary biology look at it, questioning

611
00:31:25,520 --> 00:31:28,240
Speaker 5: whether this was sexual signaling, but the writer was like, yeah,

612
00:31:28,240 --> 00:31:30,400
Speaker 5: it's probably just more of the thrill, like we're saying, like,

613
00:31:30,440 --> 00:31:33,080
Speaker 5: it's probably just the the revving of the engine, the

614
00:31:33,120 --> 00:31:35,840
Speaker 5: speeding up, the getting out of traffic, and it doesn't

615
00:31:35,920 --> 00:31:37,880
Speaker 5: hurt to be like, hey, look how powerful my expensive

616
00:31:37,880 --> 00:31:38,240
Speaker 5: car is.

617
00:31:38,440 --> 00:31:40,680
Speaker 4: Well, I mean, I do think that there are so

618
00:31:41,040 --> 00:31:44,840
Speaker 4: many pop cultural stereotypes too when it comes to men

619
00:31:44,920 --> 00:31:49,920
Speaker 4: women dating and the kind of all the you've probably

620
00:31:49,960 --> 00:31:53,920
Speaker 4: heard Hackney jokes about, you know, a girl's excited about

621
00:31:53,960 --> 00:31:56,200
Speaker 4: going on a date with this really hot guy and

622
00:31:56,240 --> 00:32:00,000
Speaker 4: then he pulls up in a insert kind of junk

623
00:32:00,280 --> 00:32:02,160
Speaker 4: car and it's.

624
00:32:02,040 --> 00:32:05,160
Speaker 7: Like, oh no, well is he hot enough then?

625
00:32:05,280 --> 00:32:05,680
Speaker 6: Okay?

626
00:32:06,280 --> 00:32:08,520
Speaker 4: And so I do think that there is something too

627
00:32:09,320 --> 00:32:11,880
Speaker 4: that whole sex signaling kind of thing.

628
00:32:12,360 --> 00:32:13,400
Speaker 6: But I will also.

629
00:32:13,200 --> 00:32:17,400
Speaker 4: Say this that if it's so obvious the guy's driving

630
00:32:17,400 --> 00:32:20,880
Speaker 4: a car because he thinks it's sexy, it's a total

631
00:32:20,920 --> 00:32:21,400
Speaker 4: turn off.

632
00:32:22,000 --> 00:32:24,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, oh yeah, and which only which.

633
00:32:24,720 --> 00:32:28,120
Speaker 4: Only also for probably some men listening, confirms that women

634
00:32:28,200 --> 00:32:32,520
Speaker 4: are terribly confusing, won't whah?

635
00:32:32,920 --> 00:32:34,840
Speaker 5: Well, So, I mean, do we have an answer as

636
00:32:34,880 --> 00:32:37,120
Speaker 5: to as to who the better driver is.

637
00:32:37,120 --> 00:32:38,440
Speaker 1: Is there science there?

638
00:32:38,720 --> 00:32:41,320
Speaker 4: Oh, my gosh, Caroline when it comes to the question

639
00:32:41,600 --> 00:32:44,320
Speaker 4: of who is a better driver, because we've talked about

640
00:32:44,760 --> 00:32:48,600
Speaker 4: all of these stereotypes of women being terrible drivers basically

641
00:32:48,760 --> 00:32:51,840
Speaker 4: rooted in you know, Victorian era sexism.

642
00:32:52,880 --> 00:32:56,200
Speaker 6: If you look at research on who are who's the

643
00:32:56,200 --> 00:32:56,720
Speaker 6: better driver?

644
00:32:56,840 --> 00:32:59,480
Speaker 7: Men or women, it's the results are totally mixed.

645
00:32:59,520 --> 00:33:02,800
Speaker 4: It depends on a million different things and who you

646
00:33:02,920 --> 00:33:04,800
Speaker 4: ask and what you're looking at, whether you're looking at

647
00:33:04,800 --> 00:33:09,640
Speaker 4: insurance rates or accidents or pedestrian run ins.

648
00:33:10,600 --> 00:33:14,160
Speaker 5: Yeah. Well, University of Michigan researchers Michael Sevac and Brandon

649
00:33:14,200 --> 00:33:17,960
Speaker 5: Shuttle looked at police reports of two vehicle traffic accidents

650
00:33:18,000 --> 00:33:20,080
Speaker 5: across the US from nineteen eighty eight to two thousand

651
00:33:20,080 --> 00:33:24,560
Speaker 5: and seven, so quite a large sample, and they found

652
00:33:24,920 --> 00:33:27,440
Speaker 5: that a woman is far more likely to crash into

653
00:33:27,520 --> 00:33:31,760
Speaker 5: another woman than into a man, but a man is

654
00:33:31,840 --> 00:33:37,600
Speaker 5: less likely than expected to crash into another man. So yeah, basically,

655
00:33:37,640 --> 00:33:41,760
Speaker 5: crashes involving two female drivers were over represented. Based on

656
00:33:41,840 --> 00:33:44,600
Speaker 5: what their expectations of the results were, they expected it

657
00:33:44,640 --> 00:33:48,160
Speaker 5: to be a little more even because you know, men

658
00:33:48,280 --> 00:33:51,160
Speaker 5: drive more, as you know, when two people are in

659
00:33:51,200 --> 00:33:53,920
Speaker 5: a car and they're of opposite sexes, you know, men

660
00:33:54,000 --> 00:33:55,840
Speaker 5: drive more, so they expected men to be involved in

661
00:33:55,880 --> 00:33:59,520
Speaker 5: more accidents, but they found that based on their expectations,

662
00:34:00,120 --> 00:34:03,640
Speaker 5: women were overrepresented in two vehicle car accidents.

663
00:34:03,960 --> 00:34:07,360
Speaker 4: And similarly, there was a study out of Johns Hopkins

664
00:34:07,480 --> 00:34:11,960
Speaker 4: which found that women were involved in slightly more crashes

665
00:34:12,040 --> 00:34:15,040
Speaker 4: than men, but the difference was not all that great.

666
00:34:15,080 --> 00:34:16,160
Speaker 6: They said that it wasn't.

667
00:34:15,960 --> 00:34:22,080
Speaker 4: Statistically significant, but age might be a more important predictor

668
00:34:22,280 --> 00:34:27,680
Speaker 4: of how crash prone you are compared to gender, especially

669
00:34:27,719 --> 00:34:30,400
Speaker 4: for teenage boys. Basically the most dangerous drivers on the

670
00:34:30,440 --> 00:34:34,680
Speaker 4: road are teenage boys because they start off pretty badly,

671
00:34:34,800 --> 00:34:39,480
Speaker 4: having about twenty percent more crashes per mile driven compared

672
00:34:39,520 --> 00:34:40,520
Speaker 4: to teenage girls.

673
00:34:41,200 --> 00:34:43,799
Speaker 5: I got into a wreck almost immediately after getting my

674
00:34:43,920 --> 00:34:44,760
Speaker 5: driver's license.

675
00:34:44,800 --> 00:34:48,480
Speaker 1: How scary it was, stupid. It was in standstill traffic,

676
00:34:48,600 --> 00:34:50,720
Speaker 1: so you can imagine did.

677
00:34:50,600 --> 00:34:51,839
Speaker 6: You hit it a female driver?

678
00:34:52,080 --> 00:34:52,160
Speaker 4: No?

679
00:34:52,360 --> 00:34:52,600
Speaker 5: Male?

680
00:34:52,840 --> 00:34:53,240
Speaker 6: Okay?

681
00:34:53,320 --> 00:34:57,480
Speaker 5: Yeah, he was a jerk though, which I don't blame him.

682
00:34:58,120 --> 00:35:01,080
Speaker 5: And the whole age thing was confirmed in a Purdue

683
00:35:01,200 --> 00:35:04,200
Speaker 5: University study that found that both older men and women

684
00:35:04,280 --> 00:35:06,960
Speaker 5: are much more likely to die from traffic injuries than

685
00:35:07,040 --> 00:35:09,160
Speaker 5: younger people regardless of gender.

686
00:35:09,480 --> 00:35:11,239
Speaker 4: But then again, to shake things up a little bit,

687
00:35:11,239 --> 00:35:15,160
Speaker 4: more women do think that they are better drivers than men.

688
00:35:15,200 --> 00:35:18,440
Speaker 4: I think that's the prevailing stereotype that we are overall

689
00:35:18,960 --> 00:35:23,400
Speaker 4: safer drivers because a lot of times our insurance rates

690
00:35:23,480 --> 00:35:27,600
Speaker 4: are slightly lower, possibly because men are more likely to

691
00:35:27,840 --> 00:35:31,840
Speaker 4: die behind the wheel than women are, at least according

692
00:35:31,840 --> 00:35:35,560
Speaker 4: to US traffic data. And also, for instance, there was

693
00:35:35,600 --> 00:35:39,319
Speaker 4: some research done on traffic in New York City and

694
00:35:39,360 --> 00:35:41,560
Speaker 4: found that eighty percent of all crashes in a five

695
00:35:41,640 --> 00:35:45,320
Speaker 4: year period in which pedestrians were seriously injured or killed

696
00:35:45,400 --> 00:35:49,680
Speaker 4: involved men who are driving. So again, you know that

697
00:35:49,760 --> 00:35:51,799
Speaker 4: might be because men are driving more. Men do tend

698
00:35:51,800 --> 00:35:53,200
Speaker 4: to have longer commutes than women do.

699
00:35:55,000 --> 00:36:00,520
Speaker 5: But yeah, it really depends insurance company. Yeah, like you said,

700
00:36:00,560 --> 00:36:04,000
Speaker 5: insurance companies sure do think that women are better drivers.

701
00:36:04,280 --> 00:36:08,120
Speaker 4: Yeah, but it might also be because of the commute

702
00:36:08,160 --> 00:36:12,880
Speaker 4: factors fewer fatalities, yeah.

703
00:36:12,680 --> 00:36:16,560
Speaker 6: Fewer pedestrians. That possibly, but I think that it's not.

704
00:36:17,320 --> 00:36:19,200
Speaker 6: It's one of those questions that is.

705
00:36:19,160 --> 00:36:21,880
Speaker 4: There really a point in spending so much spending our

706
00:36:21,880 --> 00:36:26,440
Speaker 4: wheels caroline, spending so much time like pondering this, because

707
00:36:26,480 --> 00:36:29,240
Speaker 4: if you It's such a pervasive question on the internet.

708
00:36:29,320 --> 00:36:30,319
Speaker 6: If you look just.

709
00:36:30,360 --> 00:36:34,200
Speaker 4: Google who is better driver? You get a million different

710
00:36:35,040 --> 00:36:36,400
Speaker 4: you know results from that.

711
00:36:36,760 --> 00:36:39,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean I think you know it.

712
00:36:39,200 --> 00:36:42,080
Speaker 5: It's a question that people ask, but I think, personally,

713
00:36:42,120 --> 00:36:46,160
Speaker 5: like in doing this research, the far more interesting aspect

714
00:36:46,320 --> 00:36:51,120
Speaker 5: of this discussion is where these stereotypes came from and

715
00:36:51,160 --> 00:36:53,080
Speaker 5: why they even popped out to begin with.

716
00:36:53,320 --> 00:36:54,160
Speaker 1: You know, the.

717
00:36:54,120 --> 00:36:59,040
Speaker 5: Separate spheres, the conservative segment of society being afraid of

718
00:36:59,080 --> 00:37:01,600
Speaker 5: women venturing out of the home, and so they have

719
00:37:01,640 --> 00:37:04,080
Speaker 5: to do what they can to be like patronizing jerks

720
00:37:04,120 --> 00:37:04,560
Speaker 5: about it.

721
00:37:04,760 --> 00:37:05,440
Speaker 6: Yeah.

722
00:37:05,480 --> 00:37:07,680
Speaker 4: Well, and it's like, what is it that we're ultimately

723
00:37:08,200 --> 00:37:11,440
Speaker 4: really really asking when we're asking who's the better driver?

724
00:37:11,920 --> 00:37:14,840
Speaker 4: I feel like it's so tied up with the roots

725
00:37:14,880 --> 00:37:19,920
Speaker 4: of those negative stereotypes of kind of fears about gender

726
00:37:20,160 --> 00:37:25,000
Speaker 4: and norms being violated right, movements away from the home perhaps,

727
00:37:25,040 --> 00:37:28,600
Speaker 4: and not valuing domesticity as much as we used to,

728
00:37:28,760 --> 00:37:36,160
Speaker 4: all of those different things that sort of underlie this question. Yeah,

729
00:37:36,320 --> 00:37:40,759
Speaker 4: so curious now to hear from listeners, we have covered.

730
00:37:40,480 --> 00:37:44,120
Speaker 1: A lot of ground, many miles, so many miles driven

731
00:37:44,160 --> 00:37:45,920
Speaker 1: in this journey, this podcast journey.

732
00:37:46,000 --> 00:37:48,239
Speaker 7: Yeah, so if you want to let us know who

733
00:37:48,280 --> 00:37:49,160
Speaker 7: tends to be the driver.

734
00:37:49,280 --> 00:37:51,800
Speaker 4: Are you a woman driver? Proud of your driving skills?

735
00:37:51,840 --> 00:37:55,680
Speaker 4: Do you tend to be the driver in your household?

736
00:37:56,400 --> 00:37:57,200
Speaker 6: What do you think?

737
00:37:57,360 --> 00:37:59,960
Speaker 4: Moms Stuff at discovery dot com is where you can email.

738
00:38:00,239 --> 00:38:01,040
Speaker 6: You can also.

739
00:38:00,800 --> 00:38:03,759
Speaker 4: Tweet us at mom Stuff Podcasts, or send us the

740
00:38:03,760 --> 00:38:04,880
Speaker 4: message on Facebook.

741
00:38:05,120 --> 00:38:06,239
Speaker 6: And we have a couple of.

742
00:38:06,120 --> 00:38:10,239
Speaker 4: Messages to share with you right now about one stereotype

743
00:38:10,239 --> 00:38:12,200
Speaker 4: breaking lady Beyonce Knowles.

744
00:38:15,800 --> 00:38:19,120
Speaker 5: I have a letter here from Caitlin's subject line, mother

745
00:38:19,400 --> 00:38:20,920
Speaker 5: Nole's best.

746
00:38:21,160 --> 00:38:22,520
Speaker 1: Get it Beyonce? Yeah, Okay.

747
00:38:22,800 --> 00:38:25,920
Speaker 5: This year I started both listening to your podcast, which rules,

748
00:38:26,120 --> 00:38:28,400
Speaker 5: Thanks Caitlin, and listening to Beyonce's music.

749
00:38:28,480 --> 00:38:28,960
Speaker 6: I love it.

750
00:38:29,239 --> 00:38:31,919
Speaker 5: She empowers women and girls, encouraging them to strive toward

751
00:38:31,920 --> 00:38:34,600
Speaker 5: their goals and demand respect and equality while doing it.

752
00:38:35,040 --> 00:38:38,120
Speaker 5: You described it perfectly by calling her a modern feminist.

753
00:38:38,480 --> 00:38:39,120
Speaker 1: It's true.

754
00:38:39,239 --> 00:38:42,720
Speaker 5: She's not the classic twentieth century feminist trope who dresses

755
00:38:42,719 --> 00:38:46,600
Speaker 5: conservatively or shun societal standards of beauty. Because her wardrobe

756
00:38:46,640 --> 00:38:49,680
Speaker 5: is ultimately her choice, her actions are also her choice.

757
00:38:49,719 --> 00:38:52,000
Speaker 5: By this, I mean the way she decides to present

758
00:38:52,040 --> 00:38:55,480
Speaker 5: herself and dances in videos or concerts. Wearing the clothes

759
00:38:55,520 --> 00:38:57,560
Speaker 5: she does and dancing the way she does is telling

760
00:38:57,600 --> 00:39:00,200
Speaker 5: women to be comfortable with our bodies and sexualities so

761
00:39:00,239 --> 00:39:02,719
Speaker 5: we can just have fun without worrying about what society

762
00:39:02,800 --> 00:39:05,960
Speaker 5: has to say. Feminism is all about choice and equality,

763
00:39:06,080 --> 00:39:08,800
Speaker 5: so if Beyonce expresses her feminism through dance or clothes,

764
00:39:08,800 --> 00:39:11,520
Speaker 5: she's free to do it. Beyonce is killing it at

765
00:39:11,560 --> 00:39:15,080
Speaker 5: the overwhelming balancing act of being a tenacious businesswoman, loving wife,

766
00:39:15,080 --> 00:39:17,640
Speaker 5: and devoted mother, all while trying her best to promote

767
00:39:17,640 --> 00:39:19,239
Speaker 5: feminism in an industry where that.

768
00:39:19,239 --> 00:39:20,200
Speaker 1: Word is doomed.

769
00:39:20,640 --> 00:39:23,440
Speaker 5: I agree that there are no perfect feminists, but Beyonce

770
00:39:23,560 --> 00:39:24,400
Speaker 5: comes pretty close.

771
00:39:25,040 --> 00:39:26,560
Speaker 1: So thank you for your input.

772
00:39:26,640 --> 00:39:27,920
Speaker 6: Caitlin Well, and.

773
00:39:27,880 --> 00:39:30,560
Speaker 4: I'm going to let her hear from Renee and she

774
00:39:30,680 --> 00:39:33,960
Speaker 4: had lots of thoughts on the Beyonce episode. She writes,

775
00:39:34,400 --> 00:39:36,720
Speaker 4: I couldn't help but feel angry at all these women

776
00:39:36,719 --> 00:39:39,359
Speaker 4: calling her out for not being a proper feminist. I'll

777
00:39:39,360 --> 00:39:42,239
Speaker 4: say straight up that I don't really know much about Beyonce,

778
00:39:42,680 --> 00:39:45,800
Speaker 4: but that is more the debate on what feminism shouldn't

779
00:39:45,800 --> 00:39:50,000
Speaker 4: be that gets me all cranky pants. I think for starters,

780
00:39:50,040 --> 00:39:52,000
Speaker 4: we as women should take a step back and look

781
00:39:52,040 --> 00:39:54,719
Speaker 4: at the objectification of men that we all partake in

782
00:39:55,080 --> 00:39:58,120
Speaker 4: all the time. You yourselves had a good old verbal

783
00:39:58,239 --> 00:40:01,480
Speaker 4: perve at jay Z in the podcast. If you were

784
00:40:01,520 --> 00:40:03,359
Speaker 4: two men talking about a woman, I'm sure you would

785
00:40:03,400 --> 00:40:06,600
Speaker 4: have had angry feminists after you. So why is it

786
00:40:06,640 --> 00:40:08,920
Speaker 4: okay for men to get all shirtless, showing their nipples,

787
00:40:08,920 --> 00:40:12,160
Speaker 4: stomach muscles and flashing their sexuality on screen or in public,

788
00:40:12,200 --> 00:40:13,680
Speaker 4: but not Beyonce or Madonna?

789
00:40:14,000 --> 00:40:14,759
Speaker 6: And why are we.

790
00:40:14,760 --> 00:40:18,040
Speaker 4: Allowed to talk about their bodies as objects yet when

791
00:40:18,040 --> 00:40:20,600
Speaker 4: the shoes on the other foot, men are torn to shreds.

792
00:40:21,160 --> 00:40:22,720
Speaker 6: Isn't this just slutshaming?

793
00:40:23,160 --> 00:40:25,839
Speaker 4: I find that it is a question less of feminism

794
00:40:25,920 --> 00:40:28,799
Speaker 4: than outdated profiling and judgment that makes sex a thing

795
00:40:28,840 --> 00:40:31,440
Speaker 4: that is taboo, less than human, less.

796
00:40:31,280 --> 00:40:33,399
Speaker 7: Than normal, which it is not.

797
00:40:33,960 --> 00:40:36,040
Speaker 6: And why are we not speaking of Lady Gaga this way?

798
00:40:36,080 --> 00:40:38,360
Speaker 4: She seems to think she has some brand of feminist

799
00:40:38,440 --> 00:40:40,520
Speaker 4: Also is it because she's weird and not so.

800
00:40:40,960 --> 00:40:42,560
Speaker 6: Mainstream form of pretty?

801
00:40:42,840 --> 00:40:44,719
Speaker 4: And also why is it okay for Dolly Parton with

802
00:40:44,760 --> 00:40:47,239
Speaker 4: her big boobs modeled after the image of a prostitute,

803
00:40:47,280 --> 00:40:51,400
Speaker 4: to be labeled feminist yet Beyonce is not although interjection,

804
00:40:51,840 --> 00:40:54,960
Speaker 4: neither Lady Gaga nor Dolly Parton have ever called themselves

805
00:40:55,080 --> 00:40:58,640
Speaker 4: a feminist. But going back to the letter, she says,

806
00:40:59,320 --> 00:41:02,000
Speaker 4: it appears that women don't require men to suppress them

807
00:41:02,000 --> 00:41:03,000
Speaker 4: because they're doing a.

808
00:41:02,920 --> 00:41:04,680
Speaker 6: Great job of it themselves.

809
00:41:04,719 --> 00:41:06,799
Speaker 4: I could go on and on and on, and yeah,

810
00:41:06,840 --> 00:41:09,480
Speaker 4: I mean I think that is the disheartening part of

811
00:41:09,520 --> 00:41:12,839
Speaker 4: the conversation, you know, which you brought up, Caroline, is

812
00:41:13,080 --> 00:41:18,120
Speaker 4: how it's frustrating to see this like regurgitation of like

813
00:41:18,200 --> 00:41:21,560
Speaker 4: your your feminism isn't okay, but my feminism is okay,

814
00:41:21,600 --> 00:41:24,719
Speaker 4: And this is how you should do your feminism. Yeah,

815
00:41:24,760 --> 00:41:29,360
Speaker 4: and it doesn't help anybody at all. So thanks Renee

816
00:41:29,480 --> 00:41:32,600
Speaker 4: for those observations and for everybody who's written in moms

817
00:41:32,600 --> 00:41:34,480
Speaker 4: Stuff at Discovery dot com is where you can send

818
00:41:34,560 --> 00:41:37,279
Speaker 4: us your letters. You can also find us all over

819
00:41:37,440 --> 00:41:40,640
Speaker 4: social medias, all of which you can find in addition

820
00:41:40,680 --> 00:41:44,799
Speaker 4: to our blogs, podcasts, and videos over at stuff Mom

821
00:41:44,840 --> 00:41:49,520
Speaker 4: Never Told You dot com for more.

822
00:41:49,400 --> 00:41:51,160
Speaker 6: On this and thousands of other topics.

823
00:41:51,360 --> 00:42:01,160
Speaker 4: Is it how Stuffworks dot com