WEBVTT - #549 Lauren Bright Pacheco with James Soto 0:00:04.480 --> 0:00:08.240 Hey, it's Lauren brad Pacheco, and I am so excited 0:00:08.280 --> 0:00:10.959 to be back in the host chair for Wrongful Conviction. 0:00:11.680 --> 0:00:15.520 The new season drops November thirteenth with brand new episodes 0:00:15.600 --> 0:00:20.000 and more unbelievable stories of people who refuse to let 0:00:20.120 --> 0:00:23.840 injustice to find them. But while we gear up for launch, 0:00:24.160 --> 0:00:26.040 I want to take you back to one of my 0:00:26.280 --> 0:00:30.200 all time favorite conversations from last season. It's with the 0:00:30.320 --> 0:00:37.159 incredibly inspiring and absolutely unstoppable Jimmy Soto. Jemmy spent forty 0:00:37.159 --> 0:00:41.120 two years behind bars, making his case the longest wrongful 0:00:41.120 --> 0:00:45.600 conviction in Illinois history. You'll also hear from his close friend, 0:00:45.920 --> 0:00:52.000 fellow ex honoree and former cellmate Robert Almodovar. Together, these 0:00:52.040 --> 0:00:56.480 two are absolutely unforgettable. I mean, dynamic duo doesn't even 0:00:56.520 --> 0:00:59.640 begin to cover it. I hope you'll enjoy spending time 0:00:59.680 --> 0:01:02.320 with them as much as I did, and I'll be 0:01:02.440 --> 0:01:07.000 back in two weeks with more unforgettable profiles of people 0:01:07.040 --> 0:01:17.039 who turned in justice into strength and hope into freedom. 0:01:17.720 --> 0:01:21.360 Tens of thousands of people incarcerated in the US have 0:01:21.440 --> 0:01:24.640 been wrongfully convicted and are being held in captivity for 0:01:24.760 --> 0:01:29.200 crimes even as they adamantly maintain their innocence. What's it 0:01:29.480 --> 0:01:32.160 like to be one of those imprisoned people, and what's 0:01:32.200 --> 0:01:35.520 it like to be their ally, the one outside committed 0:01:35.520 --> 0:01:39.080 to fighting for their freedom. I'm Lauren Bride Pacheco, and 0:01:39.120 --> 0:01:50.920 this is wrongful conviction. When he was just twenty years old, 0:01:51.120 --> 0:01:56.160 an act of violence would change James Soto's life forever 0:01:56.640 --> 0:01:59.880 and the trajectory for the next four decades. At about 0:02:00.120 --> 0:02:03.600 nine pm on August sixteenth, nineteen eighty one, shots rang 0:02:03.640 --> 0:02:07.400 out in Chicago's Little Village neighborhood, killing two people and 0:02:07.520 --> 0:02:11.960 injuring a third. Although eyewitnesses initially pointed to other suspects, 0:02:12.320 --> 0:02:16.720 police ultimately arrested a few members of the two sixth 0:02:16.800 --> 0:02:22.200 Street gang, which controlled the territory, including James Soto. Despite 0:02:22.520 --> 0:02:26.520 no physical evidence tying him to the crime and plenty 0:02:26.600 --> 0:02:30.160 of defense witnesses, James was convicted of the shooting and 0:02:30.240 --> 0:02:35.359 sentenced to life without parole. Soto and his cousin David Ayala, 0:02:35.400 --> 0:02:39.240 would spend forty two years in prison, the longest served 0:02:39.280 --> 0:02:44.639 wrongful conviction sentences in Illinois history, until they were exonerated 0:02:44.800 --> 0:02:50.240 in December of twenty twenty three. James Soto is joining 0:02:50.240 --> 0:02:53.880 me today with a man who's been a tremendous support 0:02:53.960 --> 0:02:57.720 to him and shares much in common with James as well. 0:02:58.160 --> 0:03:02.519 In addition to also having been rightfully convicted and exonerated, 0:03:03.360 --> 0:03:07.280 Robert Almodovar is not only a close friend to James, 0:03:07.320 --> 0:03:09.680 but the two men were actually cellmates while in prison. 0:03:10.320 --> 0:03:13.280 Both now share the same passion for raising awareness for 0:03:13.360 --> 0:03:17.800 criminal justice reform. We have so much to cover. Thank 0:03:17.880 --> 0:03:22.160 you both for joining me, Jimmy and Robert, well. 0:03:21.960 --> 0:03:23.920 Thank you for hosting us and having us here. 0:03:24.080 --> 0:03:25.160 Absolutely, thank you. 0:03:25.560 --> 0:03:29.239 So Just Jimmy to go back to the very beginning. 0:03:29.520 --> 0:03:32.200 You know you're now in your sixties, but take me 0:03:32.320 --> 0:03:35.440 back to the young man you were before all this 0:03:35.520 --> 0:03:38.200 happened in nineteen eighty one. Where did you grow up 0:03:38.280 --> 0:03:39.480 and what was your upbringing? 0:03:39.600 --> 0:03:39.720 Like? 0:03:41.200 --> 0:03:43.640 All right, Well, I grew up in the Pullman area, 0:03:43.720 --> 0:03:46.040 which is on the far south side of Chicago on 0:03:46.200 --> 0:03:49.800 ninety eighth in Avalon. I've learned later in life that 0:03:50.440 --> 0:03:53.160 the neighborhoods that we grew up in in our formative 0:03:53.200 --> 0:03:55.760 years really make us who we are. So I will 0:03:55.800 --> 0:03:59.840 always be a Southsider from Chicago and the people as 0:03:59.880 --> 0:04:04.280 youicgo because we're so segregated. We're very proud from whatever 0:04:04.400 --> 0:04:07.360 section of the city that we come from. But yeah, 0:04:07.440 --> 0:04:10.480 I grew up there. I had a fondness for sports. 0:04:10.800 --> 0:04:13.280 Baseball was my number one thing. I was on the 0:04:13.280 --> 0:04:17.000 Avalon Cubs, which at a young age made me a 0:04:17.040 --> 0:04:19.719 Cup fan, and I am a Cup fan for life, 0:04:20.200 --> 0:04:22.720 and I was so glad when they won the World Series. 0:04:22.880 --> 0:04:25.440 Fortunately I was locked up when that happened, but I'll 0:04:25.440 --> 0:04:28.800 take it. So the summer of my fourteenth birthday, we 0:04:28.839 --> 0:04:31.200 moved to the Brighton Park area, which is on the 0:04:31.200 --> 0:04:34.960 southwest side of Chicago, and I stayed there for most 0:04:35.000 --> 0:04:39.480 of high school. Then in nineteen eighty one, my uncle 0:04:39.880 --> 0:04:43.719 was murdered by gun violence in the Little Village area, 0:04:43.920 --> 0:04:48.120 and that was my cousin and co defendant, David Yalla's father, 0:04:48.640 --> 0:04:52.839 I'll Fonso, and they had her house in Westchester anyway, 0:04:53.120 --> 0:04:56.120 in the western suburbs, and I wound up going to 0:04:56.160 --> 0:04:59.800 live with David shortly thereafter. It was a very nice 0:05:00.040 --> 0:05:02.920 urban home, had a built in swimming pool, It had 0:05:02.920 --> 0:05:07.520 a mini gym, a greenhouse, five bedrooms, two and a 0:05:07.560 --> 0:05:12.040 half bats basement, fully furnished so you can imagine David 0:05:12.120 --> 0:05:15.560 was eighteen and I was twenty. I wouldn't say young men. 0:05:15.640 --> 0:05:20.400 We were more like late adolescents, teenagers more so. Living 0:05:20.480 --> 0:05:24.040 in a nice house. And yeah, I mean Dave had 0:05:24.080 --> 0:05:27.080 some money that his father left them. There was a 0:05:27.120 --> 0:05:30.400 life insurance policy, so he didn't have to work at 0:05:30.400 --> 0:05:34.320 the time. I was working at United Parcel Service as 0:05:34.360 --> 0:05:38.360 a sorterer. But to say that we weren't enjoying ourselves 0:05:38.680 --> 0:05:44.279 living pretty lavishly would be an understatement. So having all 0:05:44.400 --> 0:05:49.360 that naturally made the Chicago Police Department CPD seeing us 0:05:49.440 --> 0:05:54.360 driving luxury, fancy cars, Lincoln Cadillacs, those are the cars 0:05:54.360 --> 0:05:55.960 of that time period, you. 0:05:55.839 --> 0:05:59.480 Know, Oh, that's it. So they made the assumption that 0:05:59.520 --> 0:06:01.440 they knew how you were bankrolling all that. 0:06:02.040 --> 0:06:04.320 Yeah, the assumption was that it was coming from, you know, 0:06:04.440 --> 0:06:08.520 illicit drug sales, but that was not the truth. The 0:06:08.560 --> 0:06:10.599 truth was it was just some things that were left 0:06:10.640 --> 0:06:13.640 over to David and I'm working. I actually was paying 0:06:13.640 --> 0:06:17.920 car notes, so my car was being financed. So had 0:06:17.960 --> 0:06:20.120 they dug a little deeper, they would have realized my 0:06:20.279 --> 0:06:22.280 car particular was not paid off. 0:06:22.800 --> 0:06:27.000 Coming from the neighborhoods that you did was gang activity 0:06:27.200 --> 0:06:30.960 very much on your radar on a daily basis throughout 0:06:31.040 --> 0:06:31.560 high school. 0:06:31.920 --> 0:06:35.160 No, absolutely not, it was not. It wasn't really until 0:06:35.240 --> 0:06:39.799 nineteen seventy nine when David's brother Alfonso the third gets 0:06:39.839 --> 0:06:42.400 killed by gun violence. It was very hard for me 0:06:42.440 --> 0:06:49.000 because it was my brother, David's oldest brother Tyrone. Then 0:06:49.040 --> 0:06:52.440 it's me and then Alfonso and then David, and we're 0:06:52.440 --> 0:06:55.440 all one year apart. So I would spend a lot 0:06:55.440 --> 0:06:58.560 of summers at David's house when they were living in 0:06:58.880 --> 0:07:03.480 little village. And so that's how I wound up getting 0:07:04.080 --> 0:07:07.640 involved in any gang was because my cousin had been killed. 0:07:08.240 --> 0:07:10.040 You know, I took it pretty hard, and as a 0:07:10.080 --> 0:07:14.280 young he was seventeen, so I would have been eighteen. 0:07:14.520 --> 0:07:17.840 As a young eighteen year old to have to deal 0:07:17.880 --> 0:07:19.880 with that, you know, there was no one that gave 0:07:19.920 --> 0:07:25.120 me any therapy for the trauma I was dealing with, 0:07:25.280 --> 0:07:27.400 and the loss of I consider more like a brother 0:07:27.480 --> 0:07:30.800 than a cousin, and so to know that he was 0:07:30.880 --> 0:07:34.960 killed in that way, I misguidingly wanted to be part 0:07:35.400 --> 0:07:37.760 of the same thing that he was involved in, to 0:07:37.840 --> 0:07:40.560 seek some type of revenge. But it wasn't like I 0:07:40.640 --> 0:07:43.520 was out looking for revenge it was just a way 0:07:43.680 --> 0:07:45.920 in his honor that I thought, I need to be 0:07:45.920 --> 0:07:48.880 a part of this, I need to do something. Yeah. 0:07:49.080 --> 0:07:52.080 And there's also a huge social component of that too. 0:07:52.880 --> 0:07:57.000 Of course, it's belonging in friendship and camaraderie. 0:07:57.720 --> 0:08:01.720 Yeah, but I would not defined myself as a hardcore 0:08:01.760 --> 0:08:05.000 game member. I was what people would label as a 0:08:05.080 --> 0:08:08.040 marginal gang member. I was on the fringes. I was 0:08:08.080 --> 0:08:11.040 not someone because I'm working, I don't have no time 0:08:11.120 --> 0:08:14.040 to go hang out and do whatever. 0:08:14.320 --> 0:08:19.600 So had you ever been on law enforcement radar before 0:08:19.800 --> 0:08:22.400 the incident in the time leading up to it, had 0:08:22.400 --> 0:08:24.440 you ever had trouble with the law? 0:08:25.600 --> 0:08:29.160 No? Well, yeah, I was arrested one time for what's 0:08:29.200 --> 0:08:32.280 called a uu W unlawful use of a weapon. Some 0:08:32.360 --> 0:08:35.920 detectives that pulled me over and found a gun, unregistered 0:08:36.000 --> 0:08:39.280 gun in my car and charged me. But when it 0:08:39.360 --> 0:08:42.520 came down to the problem cause of why they stopped me, 0:08:43.080 --> 0:08:45.720 it was simply because I was in a Lincoln Continental 0:08:46.240 --> 0:08:49.840 and I was just I guess you would say, profiled. 0:08:50.320 --> 0:08:53.760 And my lawyer was able to get the case thrown 0:08:53.800 --> 0:08:57.760 out pretty easily because of the illegal stop, and the 0:08:57.800 --> 0:09:00.760 judge threw it out so that was on my criminal record. 0:09:00.840 --> 0:09:03.960 I had no other runs with law enforcement. When there 0:09:04.000 --> 0:09:08.360 would be various shootings. Once they knew I was part 0:09:08.360 --> 0:09:10.880 of a game, I was taken in several times and 0:09:11.040 --> 0:09:13.400 questioned about it. I just, you know, said I want 0:09:13.440 --> 0:09:15.840 a lawyer, and they pretty much left me alone. 0:09:16.440 --> 0:09:18.760 And at the time, so you're employed for two years 0:09:18.800 --> 0:09:21.840 at that point with you said, ups, what were your 0:09:21.880 --> 0:09:23.559 thoughts or plans for the future. 0:09:24.640 --> 0:09:27.160 I mean, you know, I had a girlfriend at the time. 0:09:27.600 --> 0:09:31.359 I just learned, maybe two weeks before I was arrested 0:09:31.600 --> 0:09:35.200 on this case, that she was pregnant. So in my mind, 0:09:35.240 --> 0:09:37.920 I'm like, okay, she's going to have a baby. When 0:09:37.960 --> 0:09:40.120 I learned she was pregnant, my thought was, I'm going 0:09:40.200 --> 0:09:42.520 to settle down. I'm going to have to get my 0:09:42.559 --> 0:09:44.600 own place and start a little family. 0:09:45.120 --> 0:09:50.040 So take me to the night of the incident. So 0:09:50.200 --> 0:09:56.720 it was August sixteenth, nineteen eighty one, around nine pm 0:09:57.240 --> 0:10:00.679 on the southwest side of Chicago. Where were you at 0:10:00.679 --> 0:10:01.079 the time. 0:10:01.640 --> 0:10:05.120 I was in Westchester. It was me, my cousin David, 0:10:05.480 --> 0:10:10.400 his girlfriend, my girlfriend, and my oldest sister with two 0:10:10.480 --> 0:10:13.920 of her kids were at the house, and my sister 0:10:13.960 --> 0:10:17.400 had prepared a meal for us, and I remember that 0:10:17.600 --> 0:10:19.440 I just got my two plates and I went up 0:10:19.559 --> 0:10:22.320 to my bedroom with my girlfriend and we were watching 0:10:22.640 --> 0:10:27.760 some movies on the VCR, so long ago. Those things 0:10:27.800 --> 0:10:31.720 are now no longer in existence. And yeah, she left 0:10:31.960 --> 0:10:36.360 later in the evening, at around ten o'clock. So they 0:10:36.600 --> 0:10:39.280 had the story on the ten o'clock news about, you know, 0:10:39.559 --> 0:10:43.400 two people being shot killed and one third one being 0:10:43.520 --> 0:10:46.640 injured at an incident in Petrowski or a Keiler park. 0:10:46.920 --> 0:10:49.600 So, for somebody who's not familiar with the geography, how 0:10:49.679 --> 0:10:54.280 far were you physically away from where the shooting occurred. 0:10:55.440 --> 0:10:58.160 I would say that was a distance of about thirty 0:10:58.200 --> 0:10:59.520 miles at least. 0:11:00.200 --> 0:11:05.880 Thirty miles away. And unfortunately, yes, three people were shot 0:11:06.040 --> 0:11:11.640 to fatally wounded, a sixteen year old Julie Limas who 0:11:11.679 --> 0:11:14.560 was aspiring to be a police officer, and an eighteen 0:11:14.640 --> 0:11:18.520 year old Hector Valeriano, who was on leave from the 0:11:18.640 --> 0:11:23.800 US Marine Corps at the time. So it's a tragic incident, 0:11:24.480 --> 0:11:28.440 but you're thirty miles away from it at the time. 0:11:29.720 --> 0:11:32.880 Yeah, my thought was, you know, that's a terrible thing 0:11:32.920 --> 0:11:37.280 that happened in the neighborhood of the gang or organization 0:11:37.400 --> 0:11:39.559 that we were part of, but I didn't give it 0:11:39.600 --> 0:11:42.120 a second thought to think who might have had any 0:11:42.200 --> 0:11:44.360 involvement in it. I figured, oh, they're going to get 0:11:44.400 --> 0:11:47.120 somebody for this, But little did I know they would 0:11:47.120 --> 0:11:48.840 eventually try to point the finger at me. 0:11:49.800 --> 0:11:54.120 So yeah, the investigation ends up focusing on gang rivalries, 0:11:54.360 --> 0:11:59.680 and even though eyewitness accounts identified entirely different people, the 0:11:59.720 --> 0:12:03.960 investigation then starts focusing on the two six gang that 0:12:04.000 --> 0:12:08.560 you're affiliated with, but just on the fringe. When did 0:12:08.600 --> 0:12:12.640 you find out that you were on the investigators radar? 0:12:14.040 --> 0:12:17.480 To my knowledge, my name doesn't really come up until 0:12:17.600 --> 0:12:21.000 the month of October. I believe that's when they finally 0:12:21.040 --> 0:12:25.160 start saying, well, okay, because they thought they was involved. 0:12:25.679 --> 0:12:27.680 They said, okay, well this other guy has to be 0:12:27.720 --> 0:12:31.439 involved as well. But it was never really founded on, 0:12:31.600 --> 0:12:35.080 like you said, on any eyewitness identifying me. It was 0:12:35.200 --> 0:12:38.679 just they now said, okay, if David's involved, this other 0:12:38.720 --> 0:12:40.280 guy got to be involved as well. 0:12:40.320 --> 0:12:44.160 So they just bundled you with your cousin and neither 0:12:44.240 --> 0:12:47.920 of you were there, correct, So how were you arrested? 0:12:48.160 --> 0:12:50.240 How did that go down? Where were you? Who were 0:12:50.240 --> 0:12:50.560 you with? 0:12:51.240 --> 0:12:54.560 So I got arrested on October fifteenth, Once again, I 0:12:54.600 --> 0:12:58.559 was in Westchester with my girlfriend, and ironically my sister 0:12:58.720 --> 0:13:01.079 was there as well, the oldest, so that would be 0:13:01.320 --> 0:13:05.200 later be my alibi. She was there. She made another 0:13:05.679 --> 0:13:08.840 homemade meal, I remember it. It was spaghetti with homemade 0:13:08.880 --> 0:13:13.120 meatballs and Italian sausage and a garlic bread. And I 0:13:13.280 --> 0:13:15.720 was just beginning my plate to take it upstairs with 0:13:15.760 --> 0:13:18.240 me and my girl to share, when we hear the 0:13:18.320 --> 0:13:20.640 knock on the door, boom boom, and then there's a 0:13:20.679 --> 0:13:23.320 pounding on the back door, boom boom. I'm like, what's 0:13:23.360 --> 0:13:26.080 going on? So we look out the window and we 0:13:26.120 --> 0:13:28.800 see all these lights and policemen running up to the thing. 0:13:29.040 --> 0:13:31.960 We open the door and they come in and cuple 0:13:32.040 --> 0:13:34.360 us up. They just said they had a warrant. They 0:13:34.360 --> 0:13:36.319 didn't say it was an unrest warrant. They didn't say 0:13:36.320 --> 0:13:39.880 whether it was a search warrant. Yeah, So they went 0:13:39.920 --> 0:13:43.680 about the house searching it, obviously not coming up with anything, 0:13:44.200 --> 0:13:47.120 and they took us into custody. And when I get 0:13:47.160 --> 0:13:49.520 to the police station is when I first learned that. 0:13:49.600 --> 0:13:53.839 They tell me you're under arrest for two murders and 0:13:53.960 --> 0:13:56.720 a tent murder and this is a capital of fence 0:13:57.040 --> 0:13:58.840 and you better say something now if you want to 0:13:58.840 --> 0:14:00.000 save yourself. 0:14:00.760 --> 0:14:03.360 Well, Jimmy, what was going through your mind? You must 0:14:03.360 --> 0:14:07.640 have thought, all right, stupid mistake. It's going to be corrected. 0:14:08.720 --> 0:14:11.000 That's exactly what's going through my mind. I'm like, this 0:14:11.040 --> 0:14:14.400 can't be right, you know. Fortunately, there was an attorney 0:14:14.440 --> 0:14:16.319 that was at the police station who would later become 0:14:16.679 --> 0:14:19.400 my trial attorney. And he came and spoke with me 0:14:19.440 --> 0:14:22.000 and said, they said they have witnesses, and he said, 0:14:22.000 --> 0:14:24.000 I don't have any of the paperwork. He asked me, 0:14:24.080 --> 0:14:25.680 point blank, did you have anything to do with it? 0:14:25.720 --> 0:14:28.720 Of course I told him no, And he's like, well, 0:14:28.920 --> 0:14:30.480 don't worry about it. If you didn't have nothing to 0:14:30.560 --> 0:14:33.680 do with it, it'll work out. Just don't say anything. 0:14:34.200 --> 0:14:36.920 And that was it. So in my mind, I'm thinking, Okay, 0:14:37.360 --> 0:14:39.840 it's a mistake, and you know, they could be cleared 0:14:39.880 --> 0:14:43.160 up fairly soon and I'll be out. But that wasn't 0:14:43.160 --> 0:14:43.560 the case. 0:14:44.280 --> 0:14:47.120 From that moment on. You're held until your trial. 0:14:47.920 --> 0:14:49.920 Yeah. I was held with no bond in the Cook 0:14:49.920 --> 0:14:53.080 County jail. I was there for probably a year before 0:14:53.160 --> 0:14:55.880 I went to trial. I went to September of nineteen 0:14:55.920 --> 0:14:59.240 eighty two to trial, but leading up to it, I 0:14:59.240 --> 0:15:03.120 would eventually find out some pieces of like that they 0:15:03.160 --> 0:15:07.200 only had one witness who would be best termed an 0:15:07.200 --> 0:15:11.000 accomplished witness. He was a young teenager as well, and 0:15:11.080 --> 0:15:15.359 he made a statement that David and I were supposedly 0:15:15.480 --> 0:15:18.160 conspiring prior to the shooting with a group of other 0:15:18.200 --> 0:15:22.320 individuals to attack a rival group. That David gets a 0:15:22.360 --> 0:15:25.840 phone call and David then provides the key to a 0:15:25.960 --> 0:15:31.280 custom blue van and gives us weapons, and we go 0:15:31.360 --> 0:15:34.520 out to the park and me and another co defendant 0:15:34.600 --> 0:15:37.880 supposedly walk down the gangway and shoot at the people. 0:15:38.280 --> 0:15:40.960 And you know there was three victims as a result. 0:15:41.320 --> 0:15:44.840 But that seems like a very convenient theory. 0:15:45.280 --> 0:15:48.160 Well it was for them. Yeah, I didn't know that 0:15:48.240 --> 0:15:51.320 they had rounded up again to the Colaster trial, that 0:15:51.360 --> 0:15:54.520 they rounded up twenty five people with the West warrants, 0:15:54.680 --> 0:15:57.760 and that out of the twenty five, at least maybe 0:15:57.960 --> 0:16:01.960 ten or maybe twelve of them made statements which collaborated 0:16:02.000 --> 0:16:04.720 in some sense what this individual was saying. But you 0:16:04.840 --> 0:16:07.160 have to bear in mind that there was probably only 0:16:07.840 --> 0:16:10.440 out of the twenty five people, maybe five were over 0:16:10.480 --> 0:16:13.240 the age of seventeen. Everybody else was fifteen and sixteen 0:16:13.320 --> 0:16:15.120 year olds, and I was really mad that, you know, 0:16:15.320 --> 0:16:18.720 these individuals who were supposed to be part of a 0:16:18.760 --> 0:16:21.800 group that I was involved in, would break down and 0:16:21.880 --> 0:16:25.760 make this false narrative. And so my reaction was as 0:16:25.800 --> 0:16:28.320 a young man that these guys are punks, they're chumps, 0:16:28.320 --> 0:16:32.760 they're snitches. But as I became more mature and I 0:16:32.840 --> 0:16:36.440 was doing my studies, I realized that they were just 0:16:36.520 --> 0:16:40.680 as much victims and or even more so than anyone 0:16:40.680 --> 0:16:43.000 else other than those that lost their lives and the 0:16:43.040 --> 0:16:46.520 other that got shot. Because they were held for three days. 0:16:46.720 --> 0:16:50.480 Imagine you a fifteen year old held three days in custody. 0:16:50.800 --> 0:16:54.840 Some of them urinated on themselves, being choked, getting nothing 0:16:54.880 --> 0:17:00.320 to eat, denied water, I mean, the sleep deprivation. I 0:17:00.560 --> 0:17:02.560 had to look at it. Putting myself in their shoes, 0:17:03.040 --> 0:17:05.240 I probably would have broke down and said anything they 0:17:05.240 --> 0:17:08.159 wanted me to say at that point. So, you know, 0:17:08.200 --> 0:17:11.240 the police officers, law enforcement have techniques that they could 0:17:11.240 --> 0:17:14.600 make a grown man who was innocent telling themselves, so, 0:17:14.680 --> 0:17:18.360 let alone a juveniles. So that started to make sense 0:17:18.400 --> 0:17:21.360 to me as in the following years after my conviction. 0:17:21.800 --> 0:17:22.960 What really was going on? 0:17:23.920 --> 0:17:29.240 I'm trying just to get my mindset wrapped around. You're 0:17:29.480 --> 0:17:34.760 living your life, have a steady job, have a steady girlfriend, 0:17:34.920 --> 0:17:37.600 have a baby on the way. You're twenty years old, 0:17:38.000 --> 0:17:43.760 and your life is just interrupted, taken away from you. 0:17:44.800 --> 0:17:47.679 What was that year like for you being held in 0:17:47.720 --> 0:17:50.520 the Cook County jail. 0:17:50.800 --> 0:17:53.879 I mean, it was probably one of the worst and 0:17:54.160 --> 0:17:57.960 hardest years of my life because my girlfriend would eventually 0:17:57.960 --> 0:18:00.720 lose the baby. She had a miscare. It was due 0:18:00.760 --> 0:18:04.120 to squarely to stress. She wasn't eating right because she's 0:18:04.160 --> 0:18:08.440 worried about me. I'm locked up. My car gets repossessed. 0:18:08.800 --> 0:18:11.040 You know, expensive rims on my car. I had a 0:18:11.119 --> 0:18:13.680 nice sound system. When they repossess it, it's not like 0:18:13.680 --> 0:18:15.119 they're going to give it back. They take all that 0:18:15.160 --> 0:18:17.440 with it. So I lost that. I was upset with that. 0:18:17.840 --> 0:18:20.960 But are you in contact at all with your cousin 0:18:21.040 --> 0:18:23.320 David at this point? Is he being held at the 0:18:23.320 --> 0:18:24.439 same facility. 0:18:25.080 --> 0:18:27.960 Yeah, I'm with him for the most part. For I 0:18:28.000 --> 0:18:32.200 would say at least half of that time, or maybe 0:18:32.280 --> 0:18:35.320 seven months we were held together. There was periods where 0:18:35.359 --> 0:18:37.359 we would be split up. You know, That's how the 0:18:37.440 --> 0:18:39.879 jail is oftentimes you're moving to another section of the 0:18:39.960 --> 0:18:42.280 jail and they don't really give you any reasons why. 0:18:42.320 --> 0:18:46.240 It's just it's disruptive. The jail is not nice, it's 0:18:46.280 --> 0:18:49.520 super violent, and you're going to get in fights. It's 0:18:49.640 --> 0:18:52.240 just part of what's going on there. And we're packed 0:18:52.240 --> 0:18:55.119 in there. There was overcrowding problem. It was people sleeping 0:18:55.160 --> 0:18:58.320 on the floor in the dayroom. So you got this 0:18:58.400 --> 0:19:00.440 group of people and you don't have so much time. 0:19:00.640 --> 0:19:03.560 It was always fights over the phone if nothing else. 0:19:03.840 --> 0:19:06.880 So yeah, Dad, in TV, what show you're gonna watch, 0:19:06.960 --> 0:19:09.720 what channel you're gonna watch on TV? I would always 0:19:09.760 --> 0:19:10.720 wind up be in a fight. 0:19:10.840 --> 0:19:15.359 So in terms of you and David, your mindset heading 0:19:15.359 --> 0:19:19.320 into that trial, how would you categorize the trial in general? 0:19:19.440 --> 0:19:21.680 And were you at all confident? 0:19:22.680 --> 0:19:25.159 I didn't. I don't know much about the law of 0:19:25.200 --> 0:19:29.840 the legal system. It's process, and so my attorney puts 0:19:29.880 --> 0:19:32.880 on an alibi defense, and I told you, the only 0:19:32.920 --> 0:19:35.760 evidence that really comes up that indicates either David or 0:19:35.800 --> 0:19:39.600 I is this so called accomplished witness, and he had 0:19:39.680 --> 0:19:43.240 implicated two people in this conspiracy as being part of 0:19:43.240 --> 0:19:48.080 this meeting that led up to the shooting. One was 0:19:48.560 --> 0:19:51.680 in the hospital in a coma told state after being 0:19:51.760 --> 0:19:54.560 hit by a car. So he's in Mother Cabreinging hospital 0:19:55.080 --> 0:19:58.080 on the West Side in a coma. Mind you, this 0:19:58.119 --> 0:20:01.280 guy testifies before the grand jury that he's evolved with 0:20:01.320 --> 0:20:06.680 the case. The second individual was in juvenile custody and 0:20:06.760 --> 0:20:09.720 he had to plcase him as well. So this individual 0:20:09.800 --> 0:20:12.640 locked up ten days before this crimer, maybe even longer. 0:20:13.080 --> 0:20:16.280 And I'm thinking, Okay, we're showing that he clearly lied 0:20:16.320 --> 0:20:19.800 before the grand jury. And here's another fact. The accomplished 0:20:19.800 --> 0:20:23.160 witness says that David owned a Blue Custom van. No 0:20:23.880 --> 0:20:27.280 Blue Custom band was ever recovered. They never showed David 0:20:27.359 --> 0:20:30.720 owned one. Now one person says he owns this band, 0:20:30.720 --> 0:20:34.080 that he ever had a van, There's no weapons ever recovered. 0:20:34.119 --> 0:20:36.360 And then they said there's a phone call that happens 0:20:36.520 --> 0:20:39.840 from Home Run and Pizza to David's house in Westchester 0:20:40.440 --> 0:20:45.120 slightly probably a half hour before the shooting happens, supposedly 0:20:45.400 --> 0:20:49.159 from two young women who say that they alert David 0:20:49.240 --> 0:20:52.760 that there's a rival group in there. Well day subpoena 0:20:52.880 --> 0:20:56.640 the Illinois Bell telephone records, which showed no phone call 0:20:56.760 --> 0:20:59.959 was made from home run in that entire night. Today 0:21:00.080 --> 0:21:04.080 its house. So again these things I'm hearing during trial, 0:21:04.520 --> 0:21:07.040 and I'm thinking, oh, well, there's no way they're going 0:21:07.119 --> 0:21:09.439 to find me guilty if they're hearing dead And so 0:21:09.760 --> 0:21:12.040 I'm thinking in my mind, as my lawyer told me, 0:21:12.760 --> 0:21:15.760 you're going to beat this case. You're going home whenever 0:21:15.800 --> 0:21:17.800 the jury comes back. There's no way they're going to 0:21:17.840 --> 0:21:21.720 find you guilty. So I'm thinking, yeah, I'm going home. 0:21:21.760 --> 0:21:26.679 Because you have multiple witnesses who attest your alibi and 0:21:26.880 --> 0:21:31.040 innocence being told by your defense that you should be confident. 0:21:31.200 --> 0:21:36.919 Take me to the moment that the jury announces their verdict. 0:21:37.480 --> 0:21:40.120 It was maybe close to nine and a half hours 0:21:40.359 --> 0:21:43.080 at a period of two days, the first evening into 0:21:43.160 --> 0:21:47.520 the next day that the jury is deliberating, and they 0:21:47.640 --> 0:21:49.240 send a note down and tell the judge that they're 0:21:49.240 --> 0:21:51.520 struggling to come up with a verdict and they think 0:21:51.560 --> 0:21:54.320 that they might be a hung jury because they cannot 0:21:54.359 --> 0:21:58.480 come to a unanimous decision on this case. And so 0:21:58.680 --> 0:22:00.280 my lawyer said, well, that's a good thing. That means 0:22:00.280 --> 0:22:03.400 they're struggling. Well, the judge just tells the jury go back. 0:22:03.520 --> 0:22:07.000 He wouldn't accept them saying that they were hung. About 0:22:07.000 --> 0:22:09.880 a half hour later, they come in guilty of all charges. 0:22:10.000 --> 0:22:12.200 So when I hear that verdict, when you know you 0:22:12.280 --> 0:22:14.760 got to stand up to hear it, the reaction was, 0:22:14.760 --> 0:22:19.080 you can hear of some gasp. The state's attorneys were jubilant. 0:22:19.200 --> 0:22:21.560 They were high five in each other, and I'm looking 0:22:21.600 --> 0:22:23.919 at them. Then I turn around to look at my 0:22:24.040 --> 0:22:26.880 family and just see them all breaking down in tears. 0:22:26.880 --> 0:22:29.840 To see my father, who was the rock, the foundation 0:22:29.960 --> 0:22:34.280 of our family, broken down crying. My sister's crying, my 0:22:34.359 --> 0:22:37.320 girlfriend crying. It made me furious. I looked at my attorney. 0:22:37.320 --> 0:22:39.080 I said, I thought you said we're going to beat this. 0:22:39.240 --> 0:22:41.879 What happened. I looked at the judge, I looked at 0:22:41.880 --> 0:22:44.080 the jury, looked them in the eye, and I'm like, 0:22:44.280 --> 0:22:45.960 how could this happen? How could you come up with 0:22:46.000 --> 0:22:51.080 a guilty verdict based on such flimsy evidence. So when 0:22:51.119 --> 0:22:53.680 I do talk to my lawyer once again in the bullpen, 0:22:53.760 --> 0:22:57.399 he comes to see me. He's seeing the how upset 0:22:57.440 --> 0:22:59.639 I was, and he was like, no, you got to 0:22:59.640 --> 0:23:01.360 hang in there. You got to be strong. I said, 0:23:01.359 --> 0:23:03.639 it's easy for you to say, and I said, so, 0:23:03.680 --> 0:23:06.920 what are we looking at and he's telling me that, well, unfortunately, 0:23:07.359 --> 0:23:11.919 the laws in Illinois are that if you're found guilty 0:23:11.960 --> 0:23:14.680