WEBVTT - The Best New Courses We Saw in 2023

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<v Speaker 1>I miss a green, for example, I'm already upset.

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<v Speaker 2>When I find my ball in the bunker, I'm really upset.

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<v Speaker 2>And when I find my.

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<v Speaker 1>Ball in a brid egg Friday Egg, the dreaded Frida

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<v Speaker 1>Egg Friday, Frida Egg Egg, fridagg bride egg Lie, I'm

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<v Speaker 1>about ready to run off of the up course. All right.

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<v Speaker 2>It's the end of twenty twenty three, so it's kind

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<v Speaker 2>of that time of the year where we're going to

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<v Speaker 2>do reflections, and I figured it might be fun for

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<v Speaker 2>Garrett and I, Garrett Morrison, co host of this podcast,

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<v Speaker 2>to get on and talk about some of the golf

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<v Speaker 2>courses that we saw. So we're going to kind of

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<v Speaker 2>break down our favorite new courses, like brand new new

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<v Speaker 2>build courses that we saw. There were there're a like

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<v Speaker 2>really like kind of a historic in the context of

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<v Speaker 2>the last twenty years of golf course development openings this year,

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<v Speaker 2>so there was you know, if we had dedicated our

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<v Speaker 2>entire year just to seeing new golf courses, I think

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<v Speaker 2>we would have gotten to all of them. But that's

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<v Speaker 2>just one piece of what we do as a company.

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<v Speaker 2>We also are going to talk about our favorite remodels.

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<v Speaker 2>So one of the other trends. On top of new

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<v Speaker 2>courses is tons of remodels. It's never been a better

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<v Speaker 2>time to be a golf course architect than right now.

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<v Speaker 2>And then we're going to talk a little bit about

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<v Speaker 2>our favorite new to us course, So it could be

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<v Speaker 2>an existing course, it could be a Golden Age course

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<v Speaker 2>that was new to us this year, as well as

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<v Speaker 2>a final kind of closing discussion around what we're excited

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<v Speaker 2>for in twenty twenty four, which will prove to be

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<v Speaker 2>another big year of golf course openings. Garrett, how are

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<v Speaker 2>you doing?

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<v Speaker 1>You know, I'm a little under the weather. I think

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<v Speaker 1>people will notice that I'm keeping my voice at a

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<v Speaker 1>very low volume, and that's because every time I speak up,

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<v Speaker 1>my throat yells at me. And I think that this

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<v Speaker 1>is hitting a lot of us at this time of year.

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<v Speaker 1>You know, kids are coming home from school with weird

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<v Speaker 1>stuff going on in their bodies and passing that to parents.

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<v Speaker 1>So I'm sure I'm not the only one out there

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<v Speaker 1>who's struggling a little bit. But that's why I sound,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, a little more low volume than usual. There

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<v Speaker 1>will be quite a contrast between our voices. Andy. I

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<v Speaker 1>think that people have already noticed that there is quite

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<v Speaker 1>a contrast between our voices in general, but that will

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<v Speaker 1>be even more pronounced today. So that's where I'm at.

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<v Speaker 1>By the way, people should know that this is the

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<v Speaker 1>Friday Golf Podcast, right, I'm not sure that you said

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<v Speaker 1>that up off the top.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, yeah, I didn't. I did not. I did not.

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<v Speaker 2>You know, I will say having just got over I

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<v Speaker 2>got over like a couple week debilitating cold from my daughter,

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<v Speaker 2>and it's awful. It's just you see it coming. There's

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<v Speaker 2>nothing you can do about it. You're just counting the

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<v Speaker 2>days till you get sick. When once they come home

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<v Speaker 2>with it, you know.

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<v Speaker 1>Listen, there are worse things that I could be doing

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<v Speaker 1>right now than talking about golf and podcasting and writing

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<v Speaker 1>about golf and staying home while doing it. And so

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<v Speaker 1>mostly I'm pretty grateful. But I'm going to try to

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<v Speaker 1>get myself a little bit up in terms of energy

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<v Speaker 1>here and go into this subject which I am very

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<v Speaker 1>excited to talk about because it's been a super exciting year,

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<v Speaker 1>golf architecture.

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<v Speaker 2>All Right, before we jump in, let's take a quick

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<v Speaker 2>minute to talk about our partner club champion. Listen, if

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<v Speaker 2>you want to get dialed in, you want to if

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<v Speaker 2>you're if you're looking at, hey, I'm going to play

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<v Speaker 2>some new golf next year. I want to. I want

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<v Speaker 2>to not have to worry about your equipment. I think

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<v Speaker 2>this is the best bet you get a tour level fitting,

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<v Speaker 2>you know you. Some would say it might be a

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<v Speaker 2>better than a tour level fitting because a lot of

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<v Speaker 2>tour players are bound to one OHM and we see

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<v Speaker 2>these people be like, oh, Colin Morrikawa switch drivers through

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<v Speaker 2>the year. You didn't like the new driver, you had

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<v Speaker 2>to go back to that. Think about this that world

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<v Speaker 2>class players are dealing with this. If you go to

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<v Speaker 2>Club Champion, you don't have to deal with this. It

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<v Speaker 2>is an outstanding experience and actually, like I think one

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<v Speaker 2>that you take away a lot from beyond just you know, hey,

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<v Speaker 2>I'm getting new clubs. I'm spending a bunch of money

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<v Speaker 2>on new clubs. I think you take away some stuff.

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<v Speaker 2>You learn stuff about your golf game and the equipment

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<v Speaker 2>setup needs that you have. So if you go in there,

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<v Speaker 2>there is I think fifty thousand possible head and shaft

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<v Speaker 2>combinations throughout the store. They have stores across the country

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<v Speaker 2>and right now they have their best offer they have

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<v Speaker 2>ever given. It's one hundred dollars for a full bag fitting.

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<v Speaker 2>This is usually I believe about a four hundred dollars value,

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<v Speaker 2>so about seventy five percent off one hundred dollars for

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<v Speaker 2>a full bag fitting if you use the promo code

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<v Speaker 2>fried Egg. The other thing, if you don't need a

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<v Speaker 2>full bag of clubs you're looking. If you're in the

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<v Speaker 2>market for wedges or a putter or a driver or

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<v Speaker 2>faraway woods, you can get a fifty dollars fitting with

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<v Speaker 2>a club purchase. Use the promo code Frida Egg. You

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<v Speaker 2>book it at club champion dot com. This is all

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<v Speaker 2>All of these bookings to get this deal need to

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<v Speaker 2>be done by Christmas Eve, which December twenty fourth, and

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<v Speaker 2>then they need to be completed by January thirty first.

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<v Speaker 2>So you book it now, you can book it for January.

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<v Speaker 2>It just has to be done. You have to complete

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<v Speaker 2>the fitting by January thirty first. This is the best

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<v Speaker 2>deal they've ever offered. They've been a spot, they've been

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<v Speaker 2>a partner of ours for a couple of years. Big

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<v Speaker 2>thanks to Club Champion and go get fit by the

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<v Speaker 2>best in the industry at Club Champion. All right, so

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<v Speaker 2>let's talk about it. Best new golf course that you

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<v Speaker 2>saw this year.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, Now this answer might annoy people because it's a

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<v Speaker 1>little bit predictable, But the best new golf course I

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<v Speaker 1>saw this year was the Leado at Sand Valley. Now,

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<v Speaker 1>is this a new golf course? That's one question about it.

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<v Speaker 1>Is this Should this be in a restoration or renovation

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<v Speaker 1>or something like that category? Is this technically a new build?

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<v Speaker 1>That's one of the many impossible to answer questions that

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<v Speaker 1>this course raises. But the reason this course has stuck

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<v Speaker 1>with me so much, the reason I've been thinking about

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<v Speaker 1>the Leado ever since I played it for the first

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<v Speaker 1>time in the summer, is that it is so intricate

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<v Speaker 1>that every time you kind of go back through the holes,

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<v Speaker 1>you remember one more thing about each hole. You remember

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<v Speaker 1>one little intricacy that you may have noticed in passing

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<v Speaker 1>as you were playing the course, but it didn't really

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<v Speaker 1>like fully stick in your brain, and so it didn't

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<v Speaker 1>become part of your narrative of the course at the time.

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<v Speaker 1>But when you go back and remember some of these things,

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<v Speaker 1>all these layers keep showing up. There is so much

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<v Speaker 1>to absorb with this course, and it gives you such

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<v Speaker 1>a clear picture of what the degree of C. B.

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<v Speaker 1>MacDonald's brilliance was that I just I have to give

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<v Speaker 1>it the tip of my hat for this year. That

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<v Speaker 1>is the most impressive and probably most important course that

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<v Speaker 1>I saw this year. But I didn't see nearly as

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<v Speaker 1>much as you did, so I'll put that out there.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah. I think one of the things that the Leado

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<v Speaker 2>would definitely be in the running of mine. And one

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<v Speaker 2>of the reasons why, and it shares this with the

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<v Speaker 2>course that I'm going to pick, is that every single

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<v Speaker 2>I like would just love to have the Lido be

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<v Speaker 2>the golf course that I play all the time because

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<v Speaker 2>of how many aspects, like just the design of the

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<v Speaker 2>golf course makes you think so much and presents you

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<v Speaker 2>so many different ways that you can go about achieving

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<v Speaker 2>the I want to get the whole ball in the

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<v Speaker 2>hole as quick as possible, and that golf course, you

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<v Speaker 2>know it just you hit the nail on the head.

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<v Speaker 2>You remember different things when you think about it. You're

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<v Speaker 2>drawn to different holes and different aspects of the golf course.

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<v Speaker 2>I just think that, you know, it's it's kind of

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<v Speaker 2>a shame. I always think about this with resort courses.

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<v Speaker 2>I think Old McDonald would fall into this bucket too.

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<v Speaker 2>I think the loop at Forest Dunes falls into this

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<v Speaker 2>bucket is that we get these like wildly intricate like

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<v Speaker 2>puzzles of golf courses. The LIDO is certainly in this,

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<v Speaker 2>and they're at these like remote resorts that you might

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<v Speaker 2>go to one time in your life. Right, this is

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<v Speaker 2>this type of golf course if it was in a

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<v Speaker 2>municipal or a public daily fee setting in a area

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<v Speaker 2>of the country that was accessible more accessible, like and

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<v Speaker 2>I get these these are accessible areas for a lot

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<v Speaker 2>of the country, but there are long drives and you're

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<v Speaker 2>not getting like if you're not a member at Liedo,

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<v Speaker 2>you have to get a tea time. It's it's hard

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<v Speaker 2>to do. So the idea of some of these golf courses,

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<v Speaker 2>some of them courses really when I think about that,

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<v Speaker 2>I'm enthralled and want to go play time after time

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<v Speaker 2>after time again and again, are like very difficult places

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<v Speaker 2>to get to. So that's like one of my like

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<v Speaker 2>nippicks of this whole thing is like these golf court

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<v Speaker 2>like and I think hopefully we're getting we're building public

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<v Speaker 2>golf and accessible golf is always the last the last

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<v Speaker 2>frontier of innovation in golf course design and golf course construction.

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<v Speaker 2>We're just starting to see, and we're going to talk

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<v Speaker 2>about it a little later, like public short courses, which

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<v Speaker 2>have been become a staple in the resort industry. So

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<v Speaker 2>the fact that this is where resort design and developers

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<v Speaker 2>are going. Is this type of intricacy. I think it's

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<v Speaker 2>really good for maybe ten years from now in public design,

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<v Speaker 2>but who knows where we're going to be in ten years, right.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, well we'll see. I mean, you know, the when

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<v Speaker 1>you play the Leado, you can see why it was

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<v Speaker 1>made to be a private course, right, Why it was

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<v Speaker 1>made to be a member course. It's because it's a

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<v Speaker 1>course that really rewards repeat play. But also it's one

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<v Speaker 1>that if you play it just once in your life

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<v Speaker 1>as part of a resort experience, you may not like

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<v Speaker 1>it that much, especially if you play it back to

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<v Speaker 1>back with Mammoth Dunes. Now, I don't want to make

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<v Speaker 1>this like a bash Mammoth Dune's moment in the podcast

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<v Speaker 1>or a bashed David McLay kidd part of the podcast,

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<v Speaker 1>because I really think that Mammoth Dunes and Gamble Sands

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<v Speaker 1>are very smart and intentional in what they do I'm

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<v Speaker 1>writing about Gamble Sands right now, so I'm for Club TF,

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<v Speaker 1>So I'm thinking about kind of that kid philosophy of

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<v Speaker 1>resort golf, And the more you think about it, the

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<v Speaker 1>more you realize that it's basically, in many ways, the

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<v Speaker 1>polar opposite of the lido approach to golf architecture. Whereas

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<v Speaker 1>the Lido has an extreme amount of detail and intricacy,

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<v Speaker 1>as you said, Mammoth Dunes, gamble Sands, the David Kit

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<v Speaker 1>approach is more about simplicity and straightforwardness, presenting risk reward

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<v Speaker 1>options that are quite easy to see the first time

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<v Speaker 1>you play the course, and so you can really engage

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<v Speaker 1>with them the first time that you play the course,

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<v Speaker 1>whereas at the Lido there's a lot there that you

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<v Speaker 1>don't engage with the first time you play the course

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<v Speaker 1>because you don't see it.

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<v Speaker 2>Yet, Or in eightyr wide fairway where you just your

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<v Speaker 2>ball doesn't go there, so you haven't been there, right.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, exactly, And there's so much there in each part

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<v Speaker 1>of the fairwey, I mean, Mammoth Dunes also has eighty

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<v Speaker 1>two one hundred yard wide fairways, but a lot of

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<v Speaker 1>them are fairly straightforward, and so you know, and then

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<v Speaker 1>when it comes to difficulty, totally different as well. The

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<v Speaker 1>Lido is very difficult to play, especially if you're not

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<v Speaker 1>familiar with the course, whereas Mammoth Dune's Gamble Sands right way,

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<v Speaker 1>you can kind of get aggressive with those courses. The

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<v Speaker 1>leader makes you feel insecure, uncertain, even fearful at times,

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<v Speaker 1>and and you eventually get over that as you get

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<v Speaker 1>more familiar with the course, whereas right away a course

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<v Speaker 1>like Mammoth Dunes is friendly and outgoing. It's a Golden

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<v Speaker 1>Retriever right away, it's your best friend.

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<v Speaker 2>It's a great, great comparison. I like that bringing the

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<v Speaker 2>dog in.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, yeah, I thought that would appeal to appeal to

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<v Speaker 1>the dog there.

0:12:31.200 --> 0:12:33.040
<v Speaker 2>When I'm going for a run, you know, when I'm

0:12:33.120 --> 0:12:35.680
<v Speaker 2>running and I run past dogs, I'm never worried about

0:12:35.679 --> 0:12:36.800
<v Speaker 2>a Golden Retriever.

0:12:36.880 --> 0:12:40.640
<v Speaker 1>No exactly right, yeah, yeah, you know, unless you think

0:12:40.679 --> 0:12:42.959
<v Speaker 1>the Golden retriever might might stop you and insist on

0:12:43.080 --> 0:12:45.199
<v Speaker 1>being petted when you're trying to get a working That's

0:12:45.440 --> 0:12:47.880
<v Speaker 1>that's the most that you're that's the most you're.

0:12:47.720 --> 0:12:50.959
<v Speaker 2>Worrying about that worried about that, right, I'm looking for

0:12:51.080 --> 0:12:54.600
<v Speaker 2>reasons to stop running when I'm running, so all right,

0:12:54.720 --> 0:12:57.400
<v Speaker 2>so for me, we'll we'll move this on. For me,

0:12:57.640 --> 0:12:59.800
<v Speaker 2>I had, you know there are I saw a decent

0:13:00.080 --> 0:13:03.120
<v Speaker 2>ount of new courses in the last calendar year to date,

0:13:04.440 --> 0:13:07.280
<v Speaker 2>I've a couple of them open next year. It's like

0:13:07.400 --> 0:13:10.600
<v Speaker 2>kind of like weird, like where you go and if

0:13:10.679 --> 0:13:13.760
<v Speaker 2>we go into just different buckets, right, I just think

0:13:13.880 --> 0:13:18.679
<v Speaker 2>what's going on in Aiken, South Carolina is extraordinarily impressive.

0:13:18.800 --> 0:13:21.439
<v Speaker 2>And I got to like just be very open with like,

0:13:22.000 --> 0:13:24.440
<v Speaker 2>I'm probably pretty conflicted here, right.

0:13:24.559 --> 0:13:27.320
<v Speaker 1>I think it's all of Andy's friends who are building

0:13:27.400 --> 0:13:29.600
<v Speaker 1>golf courses outside of akin what's going on here.

0:13:30.120 --> 0:13:32.800
<v Speaker 2>So I've you know, Zach Blair, who's been on this

0:13:32.920 --> 0:13:35.360
<v Speaker 2>podcast a number of times, was you know somebody that

0:13:35.520 --> 0:13:37.800
<v Speaker 2>when I started this business I became friends with and

0:13:38.280 --> 0:13:41.240
<v Speaker 2>you know, it's been amazing to watch him build the

0:13:41.280 --> 0:13:45.560
<v Speaker 2>tree farm and put that together. Then you know Old Barnwell,

0:13:45.760 --> 0:13:50.680
<v Speaker 2>which is my pick is was the owner and founder

0:13:50.720 --> 0:13:53.439
<v Speaker 2>of Old Barnwell. I've known since I was like six

0:13:53.600 --> 0:13:56.800
<v Speaker 2>years old. He's the same He's friends with my sister

0:13:56.880 --> 0:14:00.920
<v Speaker 2>in high school. And so I'm I'm kind of biased

0:14:00.960 --> 0:14:03.280
<v Speaker 2>in both regards, so I don't feel that bad, you know,

0:14:03.400 --> 0:14:06.040
<v Speaker 2>picking between the two of them. But I am someone

0:14:06.120 --> 0:14:07.720
<v Speaker 2>that might carry bias to these courses.

0:14:07.800 --> 0:14:10.280
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, if you're going to blame anything, then them blame

0:14:10.640 --> 0:14:13.680
<v Speaker 1>just the brilliance and success of people who grew up

0:14:13.679 --> 0:14:16.240
<v Speaker 1>in the North Shore of Chicago Gothic.

0:14:16.960 --> 0:14:21.640
<v Speaker 2>So so anyways, Old Barbball is my pick. I was

0:14:21.680 --> 0:14:25.320
<v Speaker 2>really blown away. I had walked it last year, the

0:14:25.640 --> 0:14:27.840
<v Speaker 2>seven hole loop that they had set up, or six

0:14:27.920 --> 0:14:29.120
<v Speaker 2>hole loop that they had set up.

0:14:29.400 --> 0:14:31.760
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, as did I. That's what I saw. And then

0:14:31.760 --> 0:14:33.240
<v Speaker 1>I walked the rest of the course while it was

0:14:33.280 --> 0:14:36.240
<v Speaker 1>still more or less under construction.

0:14:36.240 --> 0:14:38.600
<v Speaker 2>And I had walked that also, but a lot of

0:14:38.680 --> 0:14:41.400
<v Speaker 2>stuff hadn't been built yet. It was more kind of

0:14:41.560 --> 0:14:44.360
<v Speaker 2>this is where it's going. I think, like you know,

0:14:44.600 --> 0:14:47.480
<v Speaker 2>these two courses will forever. And I wrote a Club

0:14:47.560 --> 0:14:51.000
<v Speaker 2>Tfe piece about this in the Design notebook. These two

0:14:51.080 --> 0:14:55.080
<v Speaker 2>courses because of their proximity to each other, the time

0:14:55.400 --> 0:14:57.080
<v Speaker 2>at which they were built, I mean, they were built

0:14:57.240 --> 0:15:01.880
<v Speaker 2>basically in conjunction. Their timelines are months a couple months apart.

0:15:02.440 --> 0:15:06.280
<v Speaker 2>It's truly amazing that this happened like in this area.

0:15:07.360 --> 0:15:12.880
<v Speaker 2>And both of them are are extraordinarily great additions. To

0:15:13.120 --> 0:15:17.440
<v Speaker 2>the golf landscape. So with the tree farm, you know,

0:15:17.560 --> 0:15:20.560
<v Speaker 2>the stars is the land. But with old Barnwall, it's

0:15:20.600 --> 0:15:22.920
<v Speaker 2>got a really nice piece of land. But I think

0:15:23.000 --> 0:15:25.480
<v Speaker 2>what stars and this is? You know obviously for me,

0:15:26.280 --> 0:15:30.520
<v Speaker 2>I think what gets me going most is architectural features.

0:15:30.640 --> 0:15:36.360
<v Speaker 2>I get really into seeing things built. So like what

0:15:36.640 --> 0:15:40.320
<v Speaker 2>I like about the golf courses. It's a good piece

0:15:40.360 --> 0:15:44.120
<v Speaker 2>of land by now means it's a bad piece of land,

0:15:44.680 --> 0:15:48.120
<v Speaker 2>but the piece of land is ramped up by some

0:15:48.280 --> 0:15:51.640
<v Speaker 2>built features and some smart you know, some greens, some

0:15:51.880 --> 0:15:55.040
<v Speaker 2>hazards and what I love about it, it's similar to

0:15:55.080 --> 0:15:58.920
<v Speaker 2>the lido. There's a lot of space, but where you

0:15:59.080 --> 0:16:02.400
<v Speaker 2>need to be changes a lot, right, and it and

0:16:02.520 --> 0:16:06.440
<v Speaker 2>I have to imagine that, you know, this golf course

0:16:06.560 --> 0:16:10.000
<v Speaker 2>was effectively being built by Brian Schneider and Blake Conant

0:16:10.920 --> 0:16:13.480
<v Speaker 2>at the same time that Brian Schneider was the lead

0:16:13.520 --> 0:16:17.320
<v Speaker 2>associate on the lead. Though I don't think that the

0:16:17.440 --> 0:16:21.120
<v Speaker 2>reason that these golf courses to me feel very you know,

0:16:21.280 --> 0:16:26.240
<v Speaker 2>somewhat similar is is it's not a It's not a coincidence, right,

0:16:26.600 --> 0:16:30.160
<v Speaker 2>I think that a lot of things were kind of

0:16:30.200 --> 0:16:33.040
<v Speaker 2>put into this and I think, like I think Old

0:16:33.080 --> 0:16:37.000
<v Speaker 2>Barnwell is going to be polarizing. I think people I

0:16:37.200 --> 0:16:40.280
<v Speaker 2>saw it firsthand. I played with a buddy of mine

0:16:41.360 --> 0:16:44.280
<v Speaker 2>who who like on the second green. He's a very

0:16:44.320 --> 0:16:46.840
<v Speaker 2>good player, played in the mid am last year on

0:16:46.920 --> 0:16:48.960
<v Speaker 2>the second green. He putted off the green. You know,

0:16:49.040 --> 0:16:53.120
<v Speaker 2>and we're playing after right, Yeah, we're playing with Brian Schneider,

0:16:53.480 --> 0:16:56.560
<v Speaker 2>and like, you know, he's like outwardly pretty upset, like

0:16:56.800 --> 0:16:59.480
<v Speaker 2>a few holes into the ground, and you know, and

0:16:59.640 --> 0:17:02.000
<v Speaker 2>he's like, you know, these greens are insane.

0:17:02.240 --> 0:17:02.400
<v Speaker 1>You know.

0:17:02.680 --> 0:17:04.840
<v Speaker 2>It's all you could talk about was how insane the

0:17:04.920 --> 0:17:08.160
<v Speaker 2>greens were. And you can see how if you if

0:17:08.240 --> 0:17:10.640
<v Speaker 2>you have this belief that once I hit the green,

0:17:10.720 --> 0:17:14.000
<v Speaker 2>I should automatically be afforded a two putt, that these

0:17:14.080 --> 0:17:17.679
<v Speaker 2>greens will rub you the wrong way. But these greens

0:17:17.720 --> 0:17:19.960
<v Speaker 2>are about being in the right position in the fair

0:17:20.040 --> 0:17:22.720
<v Speaker 2>way to find the right position on the green. They're

0:17:22.760 --> 0:17:26.040
<v Speaker 2>about understanding where the right miss is to be. You know,

0:17:26.160 --> 0:17:28.879
<v Speaker 2>where you want to miss it. If you if you're

0:17:28.960 --> 0:17:31.159
<v Speaker 2>in a bad position, where do I want to be

0:17:31.440 --> 0:17:33.359
<v Speaker 2>to then get up and down. I need to be

0:17:33.440 --> 0:17:37.520
<v Speaker 2>on this side otherwise, Like and again what you said

0:17:37.520 --> 0:17:41.840
<v Speaker 2>about Leedo, it really rewards and makes you want to

0:17:42.000 --> 0:17:44.919
<v Speaker 2>play it more and more because you're decoding this puzzle

0:17:45.600 --> 0:17:48.440
<v Speaker 2>as you play it every time after time. Really, some

0:17:48.600 --> 0:17:51.560
<v Speaker 2>cool stuff about it is like there's some twists on

0:17:51.720 --> 0:17:55.159
<v Speaker 2>some old stuff on some on some like you know

0:17:55.320 --> 0:17:56.399
<v Speaker 2>modern architecture.

0:17:56.680 --> 0:17:56.800
<v Speaker 1>Uh.

0:17:57.000 --> 0:17:59.280
<v Speaker 2>There is like a rendition of the first green at

0:17:59.359 --> 0:18:02.680
<v Speaker 2>National Golf Flinks of America. There's you know, the next

0:18:02.760 --> 0:18:05.080
<v Speaker 2>hole is kind of their take on the second hole

0:18:05.080 --> 0:18:08.119
<v Speaker 2>at National Golf Links of America. They have some you

0:18:08.200 --> 0:18:12.960
<v Speaker 2>know different they they basically took a took a hole,

0:18:13.040 --> 0:18:15.640
<v Speaker 2>built a hole out of Tom Simpson's book and flipped

0:18:15.640 --> 0:18:18.359
<v Speaker 2>it right. It's the mirror of of a of a

0:18:18.480 --> 0:18:21.520
<v Speaker 2>sketch that Tom Simpson never built, but it's a sketch

0:18:21.560 --> 0:18:25.240
<v Speaker 2>from his book. And there's just some cool stuff there's

0:18:25.600 --> 0:18:29.280
<v Speaker 2>it's just some some vertical hazards you definitely see where

0:18:29.680 --> 0:18:32.560
<v Speaker 2>you know, Brian Schneider's done extensive work in the Walter

0:18:32.720 --> 0:18:37.320
<v Speaker 2>Travis portfolio, and obviously Blake Conant and him were building

0:18:37.359 --> 0:18:40.200
<v Speaker 2>this together. They were the co designers. They were kind

0:18:40.240 --> 0:18:42.960
<v Speaker 2>of you do this green, they were editing each other.

0:18:43.400 --> 0:18:46.440
<v Speaker 2>But you see that overall aesthetic of of kind of

0:18:46.480 --> 0:18:50.600
<v Speaker 2>that that upward vertical hazard. The idea of like small

0:18:50.680 --> 0:18:52.800
<v Speaker 2>pockets and greens that you have to get to, like

0:18:52.880 --> 0:18:56.480
<v Speaker 2>a Walter Travis course wood and you know, it's just

0:18:56.560 --> 0:18:59.560
<v Speaker 2>super fun. I I love it. I can't wait to

0:18:59.600 --> 0:19:03.080
<v Speaker 2>go back there. I and and the same is said I,

0:19:03.280 --> 0:19:05.080
<v Speaker 2>you know, and I want to be fair to Tree Farm.

0:19:05.640 --> 0:19:07.960
<v Speaker 2>You know, I think that one of the amazing things

0:19:07.960 --> 0:19:12.080
<v Speaker 2>about the Old Barnwell development is the growing that uh

0:19:12.720 --> 0:19:17.240
<v Speaker 2>that the agronomy team there accomplished. It's I was standingly

0:19:17.359 --> 0:19:22.280
<v Speaker 2>mature for being brand new. I haven't seen tree Farm

0:19:22.359 --> 0:19:25.000
<v Speaker 2>since Master's Week and I saw Old Barnwell in November.

0:19:25.359 --> 0:19:28.399
<v Speaker 2>I'm very excited to see tree Farm, you know, seven

0:19:28.480 --> 0:19:31.120
<v Speaker 2>months after you know it was it was very much

0:19:31.240 --> 0:19:34.720
<v Speaker 2>preview play. So I haven't seen tree Farm in its

0:19:34.920 --> 0:19:38.480
<v Speaker 2>you know, more realize uh you know form, And I

0:19:38.520 --> 0:19:41.400
<v Speaker 2>think that's always important, Like you're doing these new courses thing,

0:19:42.600 --> 0:19:45.359
<v Speaker 2>how of course ages is you know, like what the

0:19:45.440 --> 0:19:47.879
<v Speaker 2>best course today is might not be the best course.

0:19:48.080 --> 0:19:49.760
<v Speaker 2>You know what we think of best course today as

0:19:49.840 --> 0:19:51.919
<v Speaker 2>might not be the best course in five years. How

0:19:52.080 --> 0:19:54.640
<v Speaker 2>courses age you know it's different, right.

0:19:55.480 --> 0:19:57.960
<v Speaker 1>Oh yeah, I mean how courses settle in is so

0:19:58.080 --> 0:20:01.720
<v Speaker 1>important and it's something that really it's short shrift in

0:20:01.840 --> 0:20:04.560
<v Speaker 1>the discussion of new courses. Very rarely do you see

0:20:05.200 --> 0:20:08.480
<v Speaker 1>someone go back and reevaluate a course that they initially

0:20:08.600 --> 0:20:11.359
<v Speaker 1>reviewed when it opened. And I think that that should

0:20:11.400 --> 0:20:14.400
<v Speaker 1>be something that's done more often that you really bring

0:20:14.600 --> 0:20:21.159
<v Speaker 1>in to your consideration the dynamism and the evolution of

0:20:21.520 --> 0:20:25.399
<v Speaker 1>a golf course. You know, much as Michelin reviewers go

0:20:25.600 --> 0:20:29.560
<v Speaker 1>back to certain restaurants year after year to see if

0:20:29.640 --> 0:20:33.680
<v Speaker 1>that restaurant has kept up at standards, we should do

0:20:33.840 --> 0:20:36.440
<v Speaker 1>our best as people who talk about golf courses, to

0:20:36.600 --> 0:20:39.359
<v Speaker 1>go back and see golf courses after they've been around

0:20:39.440 --> 0:20:42.440
<v Speaker 1>for a few years to see if they've again kept

0:20:42.520 --> 0:20:45.600
<v Speaker 1>up their standards or even raised those standards. That's hard

0:20:45.640 --> 0:20:47.600
<v Speaker 1>to do because it involves a lot of travel and

0:20:47.640 --> 0:20:51.159
<v Speaker 1>there's always new stuff to see. But you know, it's

0:20:51.200 --> 0:20:52.840
<v Speaker 1>something we should talk about. When we get a chance

0:20:52.920 --> 0:20:54.560
<v Speaker 1>to go see a course that has been around a

0:20:54.600 --> 0:20:56.680
<v Speaker 1>few years, we should talk about it again.

0:20:57.680 --> 0:21:00.879
<v Speaker 2>So one thing that I would love to to just

0:21:01.440 --> 0:21:04.920
<v Speaker 2>you know, put out there. Also, obviously, this is Brian Schneider.

0:21:05.119 --> 0:21:07.600
<v Speaker 2>This is a big kind of debut for him on

0:21:07.720 --> 0:21:11.760
<v Speaker 2>the new build front. With Blake Conitt. It's exciting we're

0:21:12.040 --> 0:21:14.399
<v Speaker 2>entering this this time. We're gonna have a lot of

0:21:14.480 --> 0:21:16.840
<v Speaker 2>courses come online in the next couple of years, with

0:21:17.440 --> 0:21:21.639
<v Speaker 2>architects building their first couple golf courses. You know, we're finally,

0:21:21.760 --> 0:21:25.679
<v Speaker 2>like I think everybody's been clamoring for this, like can

0:21:25.800 --> 0:21:29.440
<v Speaker 2>somebody hire somebody that's not Gil, Tom or Bill and

0:21:29.560 --> 0:21:33.119
<v Speaker 2>Ben right, you know, and and that's you know, Gil Hands,

0:21:33.160 --> 0:21:37.200
<v Speaker 2>Tom Doak or Corn Crenshaw, you know, but there haven't

0:21:37.280 --> 0:21:40.240
<v Speaker 2>been the inventory of projects, the number of projects to

0:21:42.119 --> 0:21:44.760
<v Speaker 2>persuade a developer to go outside the box. Right now

0:21:44.840 --> 0:21:47.359
<v Speaker 2>we're seeing it where like developers are coming well like

0:21:47.840 --> 0:21:49.960
<v Speaker 2>you know, Bill and Ben can't do this till twenty

0:21:50.040 --> 0:21:53.280
<v Speaker 2>twenty seven, and Tom's booked till twenty twenty eight, and Gil,

0:21:53.440 --> 0:21:55.720
<v Speaker 2>you know this is so we have to go in

0:21:55.800 --> 0:21:59.240
<v Speaker 2>a different direction, right is the discourse. So it's really

0:21:59.320 --> 0:22:02.440
<v Speaker 2>exciting to see new work from new architects, you know

0:22:02.560 --> 0:22:08.359
<v Speaker 2>that have been doing restoration work or you know remodels,

0:22:08.560 --> 0:22:11.119
<v Speaker 2>like small remodels where they might you know, tweak a

0:22:11.160 --> 0:22:15.399
<v Speaker 2>whole or two here. The other thing I think that

0:22:16.040 --> 0:22:18.680
<v Speaker 2>might get like that might not be as as fun

0:22:18.760 --> 0:22:22.560
<v Speaker 2>of a story but is an important one is that

0:22:22.680 --> 0:22:26.680
<v Speaker 2>we're watching two of the greatest architects in Corn Crenshaw

0:22:27.040 --> 0:22:30.160
<v Speaker 2>in terms of new builds, Corn Crenshaw and Tom Doak.

0:22:30.320 --> 0:22:33.040
<v Speaker 2>You know, if you start to stack up their resumes

0:22:33.119 --> 0:22:38.440
<v Speaker 2>of courses that they've built, it is extraordinarily impressive. And

0:22:38.640 --> 0:22:41.879
<v Speaker 2>they are they are all working. They are working on

0:22:42.359 --> 0:22:46.240
<v Speaker 2>you know, another litany of courses, and you know, I

0:22:46.320 --> 0:22:49.880
<v Speaker 2>think you could make an argument that they're only getting better.

0:22:50.840 --> 0:22:53.840
<v Speaker 2>So like what does the next five years of their

0:22:53.920 --> 0:22:59.960
<v Speaker 2>golf courses really entail? And you know, and your talking

0:23:00.160 --> 0:23:04.119
<v Speaker 2>about legacies, right, you look at Alistair McKenzie's legacy. Like

0:23:04.240 --> 0:23:07.000
<v Speaker 2>what I always think about with Alistair McKenzie's legacy is

0:23:07.080 --> 0:23:10.000
<v Speaker 2>like he you can make an argument that he built

0:23:10.080 --> 0:23:13.480
<v Speaker 2>the best course on four continents. You got you know,

0:23:13.880 --> 0:23:19.680
<v Speaker 2>Royal Melbourne, you got Cyprus Point, you got Jockey Club

0:23:20.000 --> 0:23:23.159
<v Speaker 2>down in South America, and you got Meyla Hinch. You

0:23:23.200 --> 0:23:25.000
<v Speaker 2>could throw in the ring Like.

0:23:25.840 --> 0:23:28.040
<v Speaker 1>I was wondering what your fourth one would be, Lahinch.

0:23:28.920 --> 0:23:30.880
<v Speaker 1>You can I don't know if that's an Alistair McKenzie

0:23:30.920 --> 0:23:33.639
<v Speaker 1>course through, yeah, but he definitely touched it.

0:23:34.280 --> 0:23:36.760
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, So you you start to get to this idea

0:23:36.920 --> 0:23:41.399
<v Speaker 2>like Alistair McKenzie, like that to me is legacy. So

0:23:42.400 --> 0:23:45.480
<v Speaker 2>we're getting to the point in these these architects career,

0:23:45.520 --> 0:23:48.359
<v Speaker 2>and I think Gill's kind of maybe like ten years

0:23:48.400 --> 0:23:51.600
<v Speaker 2>behind where they are right now in terms of like

0:23:51.880 --> 0:23:53.840
<v Speaker 2>just career scope. So I don't want to leave them

0:23:53.880 --> 0:23:56.040
<v Speaker 2>out of this, but you know, they're I think they're

0:23:56.080 --> 0:23:58.679
<v Speaker 2>in a little bit different spot. But like we're at

0:23:58.760 --> 0:24:03.920
<v Speaker 2>this like legacy defining moment, especially with how much work

0:24:04.000 --> 0:24:08.240
<v Speaker 2>that these architects have coming up. Where it is, it's

0:24:08.359 --> 0:24:10.480
<v Speaker 2>going to be just really fun and I think, like

0:24:10.960 --> 0:24:12.359
<v Speaker 2>I think a lot of people would look at like

0:24:12.440 --> 0:24:15.080
<v Speaker 2>the recent builds that Tom has had and say that

0:24:15.240 --> 0:24:17.200
<v Speaker 2>that's some of his best work he's ever done.

0:24:18.359 --> 0:24:21.080
<v Speaker 1>It's certainly some of his most distinctive work. And he's

0:24:21.200 --> 0:24:26.200
<v Speaker 1>doing projects that are really interesting for one reason or another,

0:24:26.320 --> 0:24:28.640
<v Speaker 1>whether it's a new kind of property or a new

0:24:28.720 --> 0:24:31.040
<v Speaker 1>kind of concept. You know of course that we both

0:24:31.080 --> 0:24:34.800
<v Speaker 1>saw this year that's new but technically opening fully next

0:24:34.880 --> 0:24:38.760
<v Speaker 1>year is such Valley and and that's that's an exciting

0:24:38.840 --> 0:24:42.359
<v Speaker 1>course for for a host of reasons. Gil hants Is

0:24:42.640 --> 0:24:45.000
<v Speaker 1>is just getting into a part of his career when

0:24:45.040 --> 0:24:48.040
<v Speaker 1>we're going to see more new build work from him.

0:24:48.240 --> 0:24:51.560
<v Speaker 1>We've seen an awful lot of renovation and restoration as well.

0:24:51.560 --> 0:24:53.320
<v Speaker 2>It might be the best, he might be the best

0:24:53.359 --> 0:24:55.520
<v Speaker 2>to ever do the renovation restoration.

0:24:55.200 --> 0:24:58.560
<v Speaker 1>Stuff, right, Yeah, And he's certainly has has worked at

0:24:59.359 --> 0:25:02.920
<v Speaker 1>uh the the most impressive list of clubs by far

0:25:03.240 --> 0:25:06.960
<v Speaker 1>in America. And you know he's continuing to do that

0:25:07.200 --> 0:25:11.760
<v Speaker 1>as well as start to do some more new build

0:25:11.840 --> 0:25:14.520
<v Speaker 1>stuff like his work at Field's Ranch, which you saw

0:25:14.600 --> 0:25:18.240
<v Speaker 1>this year and is new, So you know, it's very exciting.

0:25:18.359 --> 0:25:22.240
<v Speaker 1>We have an embarrassment of riches right now for new

0:25:22.320 --> 0:25:26.480
<v Speaker 1>golf courses, especially as compared to the last ten or

0:25:26.520 --> 0:25:29.480
<v Speaker 1>fifteen years or so in this industry, and so I

0:25:29.560 --> 0:25:32.000
<v Speaker 1>think we'll see a lot of exciting stuff. But like you,

0:25:32.200 --> 0:25:35.800
<v Speaker 1>I'm really keen to see where Brian Schneider and Blake

0:25:35.880 --> 0:25:40.200
<v Speaker 1>Conant want to take the craft next, because those are architects,

0:25:40.400 --> 0:25:43.240
<v Speaker 1>along with Kyle Franz and others who are trying to

0:25:43.800 --> 0:25:46.920
<v Speaker 1>a little bit younger, a generation younger, and are trying

0:25:47.000 --> 0:25:49.360
<v Speaker 1>to move things to the next step. So we'll see.

0:25:50.359 --> 0:25:54.240
<v Speaker 2>All right, let's talk about renovation candidates. What's on it

0:25:54.359 --> 0:25:54.520
<v Speaker 2>for you?

0:25:55.960 --> 0:26:00.320
<v Speaker 1>Well, I've got what may be a surprising pair here.

0:26:01.040 --> 0:26:03.960
<v Speaker 1>And I'm going to talk about the Glenn Golf Park

0:26:05.080 --> 0:26:07.640
<v Speaker 1>and this again is is just kind of turning into

0:26:07.800 --> 0:26:11.639
<v Speaker 1>a Brian Schneider tongue bath because he was involved in

0:26:11.720 --> 0:26:13.920
<v Speaker 1>this project as well. But the lead architect on it

0:26:14.359 --> 0:26:18.679
<v Speaker 1>was Craig Halton, who is a Wisconsin based architect who

0:26:18.760 --> 0:26:22.600
<v Speaker 1>has served as the contractor for many of the Sand

0:26:22.720 --> 0:26:24.920
<v Speaker 1>Valley courses, maybe all of the Sand Valley.

0:26:24.720 --> 0:26:29.399
<v Speaker 2>Courses found found the land from the Valley Craigs porch

0:26:30.160 --> 0:26:30.959
<v Speaker 2>for any visitor.

0:26:31.440 --> 0:26:33.159
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, so he was. He was kind of exploring the

0:26:33.200 --> 0:26:35.880
<v Speaker 1>state with his wife and and that's how that property

0:26:35.920 --> 0:26:38.480
<v Speaker 1>out in the middle of Wisconsin was found. And has

0:26:38.520 --> 0:26:42.399
<v Speaker 1>also done the work to bring back Masonia Links to

0:26:42.720 --> 0:26:45.720
<v Speaker 1>it's its former self and and so he's done some

0:26:46.359 --> 0:26:47.359
<v Speaker 1>really cool work, but.

0:26:47.680 --> 0:26:51.800
<v Speaker 2>He's mostly done a lot of work too.

0:26:55.000 --> 0:26:57.800
<v Speaker 1>We don't we don't want to short shrift anybody, especially

0:26:58.280 --> 0:27:03.560
<v Speaker 1>run Force. So in any case, Craig Haltem, we haven't

0:27:03.600 --> 0:27:07.399
<v Speaker 1>seen a lot of original design work from him. And

0:27:07.800 --> 0:27:11.920
<v Speaker 1>this Glenn Golf Park project is really interesting because it's

0:27:12.000 --> 0:27:16.320
<v Speaker 1>not just a nip and tuck renovation. It was really

0:27:16.359 --> 0:27:22.439
<v Speaker 1>a complete reimagining of this nine hole very affordable public

0:27:22.560 --> 0:27:27.200
<v Speaker 1>course property, and they did the work for quite cheap.

0:27:27.800 --> 0:27:32.280
<v Speaker 1>They had some backing from Mike Kaiser and his Michael

0:27:32.359 --> 0:27:35.880
<v Speaker 1>Kaiser and his wife, and so there was money there,

0:27:36.000 --> 0:27:39.200
<v Speaker 1>but it wasn't a massive amount of money. And I

0:27:39.280 --> 0:27:42.000
<v Speaker 1>think that if you just look at the changes that

0:27:42.119 --> 0:27:44.840
<v Speaker 1>they made. I'm not arguing that this is Glen Golf

0:27:44.880 --> 0:27:46.719
<v Speaker 1>Park is now a top one hundred golf course. That's

0:27:46.840 --> 0:27:50.280
<v Speaker 1>never what it has been intended to be. But if

0:27:50.280 --> 0:27:53.240
<v Speaker 1>you look at the specific changes that they've made, if

0:27:53.280 --> 0:27:56.400
<v Speaker 1>you look at the comparison between the old golf course

0:27:56.520 --> 0:27:59.359
<v Speaker 1>and the new golf course, so much of what they

0:27:59.480 --> 0:28:05.520
<v Speaker 1>did is so smart and so replicable at other municipal facilities,

0:28:05.640 --> 0:28:10.960
<v Speaker 1>especially nine holers. So one thing, they removed a few trees,

0:28:11.080 --> 0:28:13.160
<v Speaker 1>not a huge amount of trees, but they remove trees

0:28:13.240 --> 0:28:15.879
<v Speaker 1>and kind of the right spots so that they opened

0:28:15.960 --> 0:28:18.720
<v Speaker 1>up the property a little bit, and then they just

0:28:18.960 --> 0:28:22.640
<v Speaker 1>mowed out a whole lot of fairway. There's basically one

0:28:22.760 --> 0:28:26.080
<v Speaker 1>cut out there, but it's not a super tight cut, right,

0:28:26.200 --> 0:28:29.760
<v Speaker 1>It's a little bit longer, and so it doesn't require

0:28:30.320 --> 0:28:33.800
<v Speaker 1>as many inputs as much attention as a very kind

0:28:33.800 --> 0:28:39.360
<v Speaker 1>of short fairway would require so really sustainable maintenance, very simple, straightforward,

0:28:39.760 --> 0:28:42.520
<v Speaker 1>and also provides a lot of room to play, a

0:28:42.600 --> 0:28:47.320
<v Speaker 1>lot of possibility for angles, et cetera. Okay, second thing

0:28:47.400 --> 0:28:50.560
<v Speaker 1>they did they didn't overdo it with the bunkers. The

0:28:50.600 --> 0:28:53.560
<v Speaker 1>bunkers are really cool looking. They have some kind of

0:28:53.680 --> 0:28:57.280
<v Speaker 1>like native grass fringe to them, but they're very simple shapes.

0:28:57.720 --> 0:29:02.160
<v Speaker 1>They're pretty small, and there's very few of them on property.

0:29:02.760 --> 0:29:04.960
<v Speaker 1>You know, most of the bunkers on the golf course

0:29:05.000 --> 0:29:07.680
<v Speaker 1>are on a single hole, a par three I think

0:29:07.720 --> 0:29:11.600
<v Speaker 1>it's six, and they basically there's like four bunkers or

0:29:11.640 --> 0:29:14.240
<v Speaker 1>three or four bunkers on that whole alone, and that's

0:29:14.280 --> 0:29:16.280
<v Speaker 1>like more than half of the bunkers on the entire

0:29:16.360 --> 0:29:21.720
<v Speaker 1>golf course. So they have kept the maintenance of bunkers,

0:29:21.760 --> 0:29:26.680
<v Speaker 1>which is such a money pit for so many municipal

0:29:26.880 --> 0:29:31.200
<v Speaker 1>and affordable daily fee courses, and they have just you know,

0:29:31.480 --> 0:29:34.320
<v Speaker 1>taken that kind of mostly off the table. It's going

0:29:34.400 --> 0:29:38.200
<v Speaker 1>to be very straightforward to maintain these bunkers. And then

0:29:38.280 --> 0:29:42.640
<v Speaker 1>finally they did a lot of really smart, sensitive work

0:29:43.080 --> 0:29:46.440
<v Speaker 1>on the greens around the greens, coming up with some

0:29:46.680 --> 0:29:50.880
<v Speaker 1>cool contours that make the game interesting they're just you know,

0:29:51.240 --> 0:29:55.920
<v Speaker 1>beautifully contoured and tied in greens. There was some real

0:29:56.640 --> 0:30:00.320
<v Speaker 1>sophisticated architecture put into that specific part of the course.

0:30:00.880 --> 0:30:03.840
<v Speaker 1>That's where they put so much of their attention. And

0:30:04.000 --> 0:30:08.080
<v Speaker 1>so I think that learning those three basic lessons about

0:30:08.200 --> 0:30:12.040
<v Speaker 1>what the Glen Golf Park did would be enormously helpful

0:30:12.560 --> 0:30:16.520
<v Speaker 1>for so many municipalities thinking about what to do with

0:30:16.600 --> 0:30:19.400
<v Speaker 1>their golf courses, how to spend the little bits of

0:30:19.520 --> 0:30:22.960
<v Speaker 1>money that they give, where to go with capital improvement projects.

0:30:23.000 --> 0:30:25.240
<v Speaker 1>When the opportunity comes up to do one of these,

0:30:25.840 --> 0:30:28.480
<v Speaker 1>I think what you do is you look at a

0:30:28.600 --> 0:30:32.720
<v Speaker 1>lot of what they did here and try to apply

0:30:32.920 --> 0:30:36.680
<v Speaker 1>some of those lessons to different specific sites around the country.

0:30:38.480 --> 0:30:41.080
<v Speaker 2>I think I've got a similar trend. I think the

0:30:41.160 --> 0:30:45.480
<v Speaker 2>thing that's most exciting to me. You talked about Glen

0:30:45.600 --> 0:30:50.440
<v Speaker 2>Golf Park, another new public golf course that it was

0:30:50.480 --> 0:30:53.680
<v Speaker 2>a renovation, is the park down in West Palm Beach.

0:30:53.840 --> 0:30:54.760
<v Speaker 1>Lots of parks out there.

0:30:55.240 --> 0:31:00.640
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, but to me, another park and Chaska, So Golden

0:31:00.680 --> 0:31:04.080
<v Speaker 2>Gate Park and Saska the Loop at Shaska.

0:31:04.480 --> 0:31:07.080
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, the Loop Is it Chaska or Shaska?

0:31:07.600 --> 0:31:10.960
<v Speaker 2>I think it's Shaskaaska. People saying sure, i'll get I'll

0:31:11.000 --> 0:31:14.360
<v Speaker 2>get it reminded, I'll get one of us. One of

0:31:14.440 --> 0:31:17.720
<v Speaker 2>us is somebody's wrong. So those two courses to me

0:31:17.840 --> 0:31:22.680
<v Speaker 2>stand out. They are I think, you know so many

0:31:22.760 --> 0:31:25.200
<v Speaker 2>people and I think the first round of golf I

0:31:25.280 --> 0:31:29.640
<v Speaker 2>played on uh played golf and was at a par

0:31:30.560 --> 0:31:36.200
<v Speaker 2>thirty one in like Waukegan, Illinois, which was it was

0:31:36.280 --> 0:31:39.239
<v Speaker 2>like this kind of dumpy, you know, par three course, right.

0:31:39.320 --> 0:31:42.360
<v Speaker 2>I think that that is the way that so many

0:31:42.440 --> 0:31:45.680
<v Speaker 2>people play their first round of golf. And like, I

0:31:45.760 --> 0:31:48.200
<v Speaker 2>don't really remember much about the golf course. I kind

0:31:48.240 --> 0:31:51.600
<v Speaker 2>of can kind of like remember a few like the

0:31:51.640 --> 0:31:55.080
<v Speaker 2>way it want wound around with property. That was a

0:31:55.120 --> 0:31:57.560
<v Speaker 2>golf course that was the first round of my golf life.

0:31:58.000 --> 0:32:01.840
<v Speaker 2>Another golf course that was instrumental in my life and

0:32:01.960 --> 0:32:04.760
<v Speaker 2>golf was a par three course that's now a park

0:32:05.560 --> 0:32:08.920
<v Speaker 2>in Libertyville, Illinois called Riverside. It was it was right

0:32:09.000 --> 0:32:11.600
<v Speaker 2>on the river. It flooded when it was But par

0:32:11.760 --> 0:32:17.120
<v Speaker 2>three courses are instrumental to people that enter the game

0:32:17.440 --> 0:32:19.880
<v Speaker 2>like it is, it's got to be a sky high

0:32:20.000 --> 0:32:24.600
<v Speaker 2>number of percentage of rounds of somebody who's a beginner's

0:32:24.640 --> 0:32:29.080
<v Speaker 2>first five rounds. So with the Golden Gate Park project,

0:32:29.120 --> 0:32:31.560
<v Speaker 2>which is in San Francisco. It's in Golden Gate Park.

0:32:31.800 --> 0:32:36.160
<v Speaker 2>They took a nine hole effectively par three golf course.

0:32:36.880 --> 0:32:39.160
<v Speaker 2>It was overgrown, it was fine, it was it was

0:32:39.240 --> 0:32:43.200
<v Speaker 2>a nice golf course and you know, a nice place

0:32:43.280 --> 0:32:47.000
<v Speaker 2>to play. It sits on sand dunes. It's like, you know,

0:32:47.080 --> 0:32:50.040
<v Speaker 2>probably a half a mile from the ocean. It sits

0:32:50.080 --> 0:32:53.560
<v Speaker 2>on pure sand. And they took that golf course and

0:32:53.760 --> 0:32:57.160
<v Speaker 2>they renovated and built a brand new nine hole golf course.

0:32:57.200 --> 0:33:00.280
<v Speaker 2>It's got a partnership with the First te of San

0:33:00.320 --> 0:33:04.160
<v Speaker 2>Francisco and Jay Blasi did the renovation. It was a

0:33:04.360 --> 0:33:08.840
<v Speaker 2>twenty acre site and now it is twenty acres of

0:33:09.240 --> 0:33:14.479
<v Speaker 2>fantastic golf, just really fun greens. Tasca a similar story.

0:33:14.720 --> 0:33:16.760
<v Speaker 2>They took a you know, kind of like a par

0:33:16.960 --> 0:33:20.040
<v Speaker 2>thirty course, so you know, a couple of par fours,

0:33:20.480 --> 0:33:23.640
<v Speaker 2>and they renovated and they made it a fully accessible

0:33:23.720 --> 0:33:28.400
<v Speaker 2>golf course so there's no bunkers. Anybody of any you know,

0:33:28.760 --> 0:33:32.120
<v Speaker 2>with any anybody can go play golf there. And they

0:33:32.200 --> 0:33:37.800
<v Speaker 2>both share like very similar design characteristics. Like Golden Gates

0:33:37.840 --> 0:33:40.560
<v Speaker 2>got a few sand bunkers, but like they're more like

0:33:40.720 --> 0:33:44.600
<v Speaker 2>exposed sand because it's like you're you're on sand dunes.

0:33:44.640 --> 0:33:47.160
<v Speaker 2>You'd be silly not to expose some sand, right, And.

0:33:47.200 --> 0:33:50.840
<v Speaker 1>There's you don't you don't want some revetted pot bunkers

0:33:50.920 --> 0:33:51.640
<v Speaker 1>or anything like that.

0:33:52.600 --> 0:33:55.360
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, So so there's a few, you know, there's some

0:33:55.680 --> 0:33:58.520
<v Speaker 2>exposed sand. There's a couple bunkers. There's like kind of

0:33:58.600 --> 0:34:00.840
<v Speaker 2>like a cool little like lines mouth green that's got

0:34:00.880 --> 0:34:03.920
<v Speaker 2>a bunker that you can play around. So there's very

0:34:04.000 --> 0:34:09.040
<v Speaker 2>minimal bunkers at Chaska, no bunkers. Both of them have

0:34:09.960 --> 0:34:12.759
<v Speaker 2>fascinating greens, and both of them were done on a

0:34:12.880 --> 0:34:14.719
<v Speaker 2>very small budget. I think. I think the Golden Gate

0:34:14.760 --> 0:34:20.720
<v Speaker 2>Park project was around two million and the Chasca project

0:34:20.920 --> 0:34:24.200
<v Speaker 2>was less than one point five. So these projects were

0:34:24.280 --> 0:34:30.759
<v Speaker 2>done undertaken, funded, you know, locally, and it represents a

0:34:30.840 --> 0:34:35.080
<v Speaker 2>type of architecture, a type of project that's achievable in

0:34:35.440 --> 0:34:38.239
<v Speaker 2>a lot of different locales, right because it's not over

0:34:38.320 --> 0:34:42.240
<v Speaker 2>the top expensive and the end result is an amazing product.

0:34:42.600 --> 0:34:45.000
<v Speaker 2>It's a you know, we talk about this and I've

0:34:45.080 --> 0:34:48.600
<v Speaker 2>used this conversation, this topic, this analogy so often. But

0:34:48.680 --> 0:34:51.000
<v Speaker 2>if you want to get somebody into coffee, you don't

0:34:51.000 --> 0:34:52.800
<v Speaker 2>take them to a gas station, you take them to

0:34:53.120 --> 0:34:55.680
<v Speaker 2>a nice coffee shop, and you give them maybe, like

0:34:55.840 --> 0:34:58.840
<v Speaker 2>you know, you give them something that's going to appeal

0:34:58.920 --> 0:35:02.160
<v Speaker 2>to their palate, not you know, and so often with golf,

0:35:02.200 --> 0:35:04.880
<v Speaker 2>with these par three courses, we've given somebody like the

0:35:05.000 --> 0:35:08.919
<v Speaker 2>worst form of golf, right, the just the everybody's played

0:35:08.960 --> 0:35:11.080
<v Speaker 2>the par three course with just the dead flat green.

0:35:11.239 --> 0:35:14.600
<v Speaker 2>It's a field, right, And these are you know, these

0:35:15.320 --> 0:35:19.600
<v Speaker 2>whole These courses spark imagination with their greens and and

0:35:19.680 --> 0:35:23.359
<v Speaker 2>I'm super excited both of those courses will be kind

0:35:23.360 --> 0:35:26.120
<v Speaker 2>of big stars, I think of twenty twenty four. I

0:35:26.520 --> 0:35:29.239
<v Speaker 2>was lucky to see both of them this year, and

0:35:29.640 --> 0:35:32.640
<v Speaker 2>I can't wait for more of these golf courses to happen.

0:35:33.200 --> 0:35:37.359
<v Speaker 2>This is the trend that's really needed in public golf,

0:35:37.480 --> 0:35:41.239
<v Speaker 2>and for both courses, they're going to remain extremely affordable.

0:35:41.280 --> 0:35:44.280
<v Speaker 2>I think for city residents. The Golden Gate Park courses

0:35:44.360 --> 0:35:45.560
<v Speaker 2>twenty two dollars.

0:35:45.760 --> 0:35:48.279
<v Speaker 1>So right, And I think, you know, part of the

0:35:48.400 --> 0:35:54.920
<v Speaker 1>hope here is that local government officials and residents can

0:35:55.239 --> 0:35:58.279
<v Speaker 1>look at the projects that have been done on a

0:35:58.400 --> 0:36:01.840
<v Speaker 1>small scale at these courts and then look at some

0:36:01.960 --> 0:36:07.759
<v Speaker 1>of the other golf assets that they have locally and think, well,

0:36:08.719 --> 0:36:11.680
<v Speaker 1>this little course looks a lot better than this big course. Now,

0:36:12.520 --> 0:36:16.440
<v Speaker 1>maybe if we set aside a little more money, we

0:36:16.520 --> 0:36:19.080
<v Speaker 1>could do something cool with a big course too, Because

0:36:19.080 --> 0:36:22.080
<v Speaker 1>San Francisco has some places that could use a little

0:36:22.080 --> 0:36:24.800
<v Speaker 1>bit of love, some eighteen whole courses that could be

0:36:25.080 --> 0:36:28.759
<v Speaker 1>really cool with a bit of work, And I think

0:36:28.920 --> 0:36:32.600
<v Speaker 1>probably the same is true in a lot of cities

0:36:32.920 --> 0:36:36.840
<v Speaker 1>throughout the country. And so you know, starting small is

0:36:37.000 --> 0:36:42.320
<v Speaker 1>a really great idea for introducing cool architecture into a

0:36:42.480 --> 0:36:45.839
<v Speaker 1>municipal golf system. And so I'm really glad to see

0:36:46.280 --> 0:36:48.279
<v Speaker 1>that that's happening at these courses. Now, both of these

0:36:48.360 --> 0:36:50.080
<v Speaker 1>open in twenty twenty four, right.

0:36:50.600 --> 0:36:52.960
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, or early twenty twenty four. So I think

0:36:53.840 --> 0:36:58.040
<v Speaker 2>I think Golden Gate Park's plan is January, right, so

0:36:58.480 --> 0:36:59.239
<v Speaker 2>you know, a month away.

0:36:59.320 --> 0:37:02.360
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, it's so you can play in January. Obviously, can't

0:37:02.400 --> 0:37:03.719
<v Speaker 1>do the same in Minnesota.

0:37:04.160 --> 0:37:06.880
<v Speaker 2>Minnesota, Minnesota. It should be a big story with the

0:37:07.000 --> 0:37:09.960
<v Speaker 2>USAM at Hazeltem because it's you know, it's basically it

0:37:10.040 --> 0:37:13.000
<v Speaker 2>shares the lake that hazel Teine's on. It's just on

0:37:13.120 --> 0:37:14.719
<v Speaker 2>another extension of the lake.

0:37:15.000 --> 0:37:17.160
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. Now, two things that I want to mention about

0:37:17.160 --> 0:37:20.680
<v Speaker 1>these projects quickly. One is that I believe there's a

0:37:20.760 --> 0:37:25.319
<v Speaker 1>common link in terms of shapers at Golden Gate Park

0:37:25.400 --> 0:37:31.000
<v Speaker 1>and at Shaska. I believe Brett Hochstein worked on both projects.

0:37:30.880 --> 0:37:34.080
<v Speaker 2>And Ben Warren. Ben Warren was the lead architect, another

0:37:34.360 --> 0:37:36.360
<v Speaker 2>you know, very talented young shaper.

0:37:37.160 --> 0:37:38.880
<v Speaker 1>Ben work at a Golden Gate Park too.

0:37:39.080 --> 0:37:41.920
<v Speaker 2>No, no, he did not, so in Jay Blasi, I did.

0:37:42.000 --> 0:37:44.720
<v Speaker 2>I failed to mention Ben's name on the Chaska project,

0:37:44.840 --> 0:37:48.200
<v Speaker 2>so you know, it's a It's another example of exciting

0:37:48.280 --> 0:37:50.560
<v Speaker 2>to see young names getting chances.

0:37:50.680 --> 0:37:54.000
<v Speaker 1>Absolutely. And the other thing people should know about the

0:37:54.640 --> 0:37:59.480
<v Speaker 1>about the Chaska project is that the the whole idea

0:37:59.680 --> 0:38:03.000
<v Speaker 1>of the facility is that it's going to be radically

0:38:03.320 --> 0:38:07.239
<v Speaker 1>accessible to adaptive golfers. So they're really trying to do

0:38:07.440 --> 0:38:13.440
<v Speaker 1>everything they can to accommodate adaptive play and disability access.

0:38:14.120 --> 0:38:16.080
<v Speaker 1>And in fact, that's one of the reasons that the

0:38:16.120 --> 0:38:19.600
<v Speaker 1>project has taken a little while, because they need to

0:38:20.400 --> 0:38:25.280
<v Speaker 1>build some on site facilities to really fulfill that mission.

0:38:25.480 --> 0:38:29.320
<v Speaker 1>So the golf course has been shaped and more or

0:38:29.400 --> 0:38:32.200
<v Speaker 1>less finished for a while, but basically it's kind of

0:38:32.239 --> 0:38:35.640
<v Speaker 1>waiting on the clubhouse and other things to come in

0:38:36.160 --> 0:38:38.640
<v Speaker 1>to make sure that the course can really right away

0:38:39.320 --> 0:38:43.480
<v Speaker 1>serve its mission, which is to enhance the experience of

0:38:43.920 --> 0:38:47.200
<v Speaker 1>adaptive golfers. So that's something that's very important there that

0:38:48.040 --> 0:38:51.720
<v Speaker 1>you know. Again, it's one of those things that different

0:38:52.000 --> 0:38:55.919
<v Speaker 1>places in the world, who you know, where people want

0:38:56.040 --> 0:38:59.440
<v Speaker 1>to improve their golf, they can look at that as

0:38:59.520 --> 0:39:02.600
<v Speaker 1>an option and to communicate to people that golf is

0:39:02.680 --> 0:39:06.480
<v Speaker 1>not this kind of elitist, cloistered sport, that there can

0:39:06.640 --> 0:39:10.520
<v Speaker 1>be a real effort to reach out to the community

0:39:11.080 --> 0:39:15.800
<v Speaker 1>and make golf an experience that everybody can enjoy. So

0:39:16.760 --> 0:39:22.000
<v Speaker 1>those are those courses. Now, there were some glossier renovations

0:39:22.040 --> 0:39:25.800
<v Speaker 1>that we didn't mention that, you know, I think that

0:39:27.360 --> 0:39:31.480
<v Speaker 1>maybe just quickly mention them. There's the country club near Cleveland.

0:39:32.080 --> 0:39:35.759
<v Speaker 1>Gil Hans restored that golf course. I know you liked

0:39:35.800 --> 0:39:37.759
<v Speaker 1>what you saw there. Yeah, I've I played that course

0:39:37.840 --> 0:39:41.960
<v Speaker 1>pre renovation or pre restoration and was really impressed with

0:39:42.040 --> 0:39:45.120
<v Speaker 1>the land and some of the boldness of the way

0:39:45.200 --> 0:39:50.360
<v Speaker 1>that the holes use the landforms on that property. So

0:39:51.200 --> 0:39:52.680
<v Speaker 1>super excited to see.

0:39:52.520 --> 0:39:55.759
<v Speaker 2>That maybe Flynn's best work outside of Shinnecock.

0:39:56.680 --> 0:39:58.440
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I mean, I don't know, I haven't seen an

0:39:58.440 --> 0:40:00.560
<v Speaker 1>awful lot of Flynn, but I would leave it like

0:40:00.680 --> 0:40:03.839
<v Speaker 1>that's a really well designed golf course. The lake course

0:40:03.880 --> 0:40:06.200
<v Speaker 1>at the Olympic Club has opened back up after again

0:40:06.280 --> 0:40:11.040
<v Speaker 1>a gil Hant's restoration. Lookout Mountain has gotten some attention

0:40:11.280 --> 0:40:14.480
<v Speaker 1>for some of the really bold restoration work that Tyler

0:40:14.560 --> 0:40:17.880
<v Speaker 1>Ray's team did there. So there's still a lot of

0:40:18.040 --> 0:40:24.000
<v Speaker 1>action in the restoration and renovation category of the golf

0:40:24.080 --> 0:40:28.400
<v Speaker 1>course industry. But one overall shift that I'm noticing that

0:40:29.120 --> 0:40:31.840
<v Speaker 1>I think I'm excited about is that a lot of

0:40:31.920 --> 0:40:36.440
<v Speaker 1>the obvious restorations like straightforward, we want to bring this

0:40:36.560 --> 0:40:38.360
<v Speaker 1>course back to what it was because it was a

0:40:38.440 --> 0:40:40.600
<v Speaker 1>great course in the first place and we couldn't possibly

0:40:40.680 --> 0:40:44.399
<v Speaker 1>do anything better. A lot of those projects have been

0:40:44.560 --> 0:40:50.080
<v Speaker 1>done basically, and now what we're looking at totore time

0:40:50.160 --> 0:40:52.560
<v Speaker 1>to restore again. So yeah, yeah, there's two paths here.

0:40:53.920 --> 0:40:57.040
<v Speaker 1>We can try to convince green committees that they didn't

0:40:57.080 --> 0:40:59.160
<v Speaker 1>restore it properly the first time and that we need

0:40:59.239 --> 0:41:02.600
<v Speaker 1>to try it again, except with a bigger budget, which

0:41:02.760 --> 0:41:06.480
<v Speaker 1>I hope we don't see a lot of. There's the

0:41:06.560 --> 0:41:09.279
<v Speaker 1>other direction we could go with this opportunity or that

0:41:09.440 --> 0:41:11.360
<v Speaker 1>it could go. I'm not sure that we can have

0:41:11.440 --> 0:41:14.160
<v Speaker 1>any influence on it is. These are just economic forces

0:41:14.200 --> 0:41:16.360
<v Speaker 1>that are out of our control. But I'd like to

0:41:16.400 --> 0:41:20.560
<v Speaker 1>see more courses that maybe don't have very good golf

0:41:20.600 --> 0:41:23.440
<v Speaker 1>courses realize that they don't have very good golf courses

0:41:23.760 --> 0:41:26.920
<v Speaker 1>that weren't particularly well designed in the first place, that

0:41:27.040 --> 0:41:30.080
<v Speaker 1>have worn out their welcome, that look dated at this point.

0:41:30.719 --> 0:41:32.480
<v Speaker 1>I would like to see some of those golf courses

0:41:32.560 --> 0:41:39.040
<v Speaker 1>higher talented architects trained in this neoclassical mode that Corn

0:41:39.080 --> 0:41:43.520
<v Speaker 1>Crenshaw and Tom Doak and Gil Hants have popularized, and

0:41:44.440 --> 0:41:49.239
<v Speaker 1>see what can be done with golf courses that have

0:41:49.480 --> 0:41:52.680
<v Speaker 1>kind of seen their day and need to become something new.

0:41:52.840 --> 0:41:57.840
<v Speaker 1>So I'd like to see more creative, aggressive, out of

0:41:57.880 --> 0:42:02.200
<v Speaker 1>the box renovations. I'm hoping to see some of that work.

0:42:02.200 --> 0:42:04.719
<v Speaker 1>We've seen a few projects like that, but I'd like

0:42:04.800 --> 0:42:05.239
<v Speaker 1>to see more.

0:42:05.800 --> 0:42:08.120
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I agree with that. I think that's kind of

0:42:08.160 --> 0:42:11.120
<v Speaker 2>the next frontier right is, and I think we're going

0:42:11.200 --> 0:42:13.800
<v Speaker 2>to see a lot of that coming do with irrigation

0:42:14.000 --> 0:42:17.480
<v Speaker 2>systems needing to be replaced and a lot of courses

0:42:17.560 --> 0:42:21.920
<v Speaker 2>that were built in nineteen eighty and nineteen ninety thinking

0:42:21.920 --> 0:42:24.560
<v Speaker 2>about what does the next thirty years look like for

0:42:25.200 --> 0:42:27.000
<v Speaker 2>us now that we're here with our irrigation.

0:42:27.480 --> 0:42:30.960
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, so all right, we wanted to talk about one

0:42:31.040 --> 0:42:33.600
<v Speaker 1>more topic, right, we wanted to talk about for.

0:42:33.800 --> 0:42:38.640
<v Speaker 2>That Before that, Oh, I want to talk about a

0:42:38.680 --> 0:42:39.960
<v Speaker 2>little personal experience.

0:42:40.280 --> 0:42:40.680
<v Speaker 1>Let's do it.

0:42:40.760 --> 0:42:44.080
<v Speaker 2>You know, over the last I travel a lot from work,

0:42:44.320 --> 0:42:48.320
<v Speaker 2>and you know, I noticed that, like seven years of

0:42:49.200 --> 0:42:52.160
<v Speaker 2>starting a business and traveling a bunch was taking a

0:42:52.280 --> 0:42:55.520
<v Speaker 2>toll on me. I felt kind of sluggish. I didn't

0:42:55.640 --> 0:42:58.440
<v Speaker 2>you know, I was stressed out constantly. And if you're

0:42:58.440 --> 0:43:01.680
<v Speaker 2>a long time listener, you might know that I've been

0:43:01.760 --> 0:43:04.800
<v Speaker 2>drinking ag one for about a year. So when I

0:43:04.920 --> 0:43:09.319
<v Speaker 2>started to drink ag one, I could feel a real

0:43:09.440 --> 0:43:12.920
<v Speaker 2>difference and just on every day. It helped me get

0:43:13.040 --> 0:43:16.160
<v Speaker 2>going every day. It got me into a most importantly,

0:43:16.200 --> 0:43:18.279
<v Speaker 2>a healthy routine. I feel like if you do one

0:43:18.320 --> 0:43:21.600
<v Speaker 2>healthy routine, you're way more likely to do a couple

0:43:21.719 --> 0:43:24.040
<v Speaker 2>healthy routines, and that's what you can kind of build

0:43:24.120 --> 0:43:26.279
<v Speaker 2>on and build on health over the course of the year.

0:43:26.760 --> 0:43:31.240
<v Speaker 2>So that's because ag one is a foundational nutrition supplement

0:43:31.320 --> 0:43:35.000
<v Speaker 2>that supports your body's universal needs like gut optimization, stress

0:43:35.080 --> 0:43:39.000
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0:43:39.120 --> 0:43:43.600
<v Speaker 2>led the future of foundational nutrition, continuously refining their formula

0:43:43.800 --> 0:43:47.080
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0:43:47.880 --> 0:43:51.759
<v Speaker 2>Not only did I replace my multivitamin with AG one,

0:43:52.160 --> 0:43:57.040
<v Speaker 2>but I love that every scoop also includes prebiotics, probiotics,

0:43:57.080 --> 0:44:00.719
<v Speaker 2>and digestive enzymes for gut support. I wouldn't be doing this,

0:44:01.239 --> 0:44:04.080
<v Speaker 2>you know. I wouldn't be doing prebiotics, probiotics if it

0:44:04.200 --> 0:44:06.560
<v Speaker 2>wasn't in AG one. So I get the multi vitamin,

0:44:06.719 --> 0:44:08.680
<v Speaker 2>I just scoop it in there. I get all this

0:44:08.840 --> 0:44:12.360
<v Speaker 2>in one spot. So AG one is the supplement I

0:44:12.560 --> 0:44:15.279
<v Speaker 2>trust to provide the support my body needs daily, and

0:44:15.360 --> 0:44:18.120
<v Speaker 2>that's why they've been a partner for so long. If

0:44:18.200 --> 0:44:20.240
<v Speaker 2>you want to take ownership of your health, it starts

0:44:20.280 --> 0:44:22.640
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0:44:22.719 --> 0:44:25.719
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0:44:25.960 --> 0:44:29.280
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0:44:29.600 --> 0:44:31.960
<v Speaker 2>For any traveler that wants to do this, the travel

0:44:32.040 --> 0:44:36.160
<v Speaker 2>packs or a necessity. They're awesome, They're super easy. Go

0:44:36.280 --> 0:44:39.319
<v Speaker 2>to drinkag one dot com slash the fried egg that's

0:44:39.440 --> 0:44:43.040
<v Speaker 2>drinkag one dot com. Slash the fried egg and check

0:44:43.120 --> 0:44:46.600
<v Speaker 2>it out. All right, let's get to new courses that

0:44:46.960 --> 0:44:49.520
<v Speaker 2>might be old courses, new courses to us.

0:44:50.120 --> 0:44:54.759
<v Speaker 1>Yes, new to us. So we wanted to talk about each.

0:44:54.880 --> 0:44:56.560
<v Speaker 1>Each of us wanted to talk about a course that

0:44:56.680 --> 0:44:59.800
<v Speaker 1>we saw for the first time this past year that

0:45:00.000 --> 0:45:04.040
<v Speaker 1>it's not newly renovated, that's not newly built, but that

0:45:04.280 --> 0:45:07.680
<v Speaker 1>we enjoyed and had never seen before. So this is

0:45:07.760 --> 0:45:09.759
<v Speaker 1>just a little reflection on the year I saw. I

0:45:09.840 --> 0:45:11.920
<v Speaker 1>saw a lot of these courses that there are some

0:45:12.080 --> 0:45:16.080
<v Speaker 1>to choose from that I really want to talk about.

0:45:16.160 --> 0:45:19.839
<v Speaker 1>But if I had to choose one, I think I'd

0:45:19.920 --> 0:45:25.040
<v Speaker 1>choose Winchester Country Club near Boston, Massachusetts. I like it.

0:45:25.880 --> 0:45:28.160
<v Speaker 1>It's not a course that gets talked about a whole lot,

0:45:28.880 --> 0:45:32.480
<v Speaker 1>and my understanding is that it's pretty private, and that's

0:45:33.239 --> 0:45:37.400
<v Speaker 1>probably why this is not a public course like the

0:45:37.440 --> 0:45:40.320
<v Speaker 1>William J. Divine Golf Course at Franklin Park that I

0:45:40.400 --> 0:45:43.200
<v Speaker 1>played during the same trip and really enjoyed. You know,

0:45:43.280 --> 0:45:45.560
<v Speaker 1>that's another Donald Ross course that I think people should

0:45:45.920 --> 0:45:49.120
<v Speaker 1>should check out on the public side. But the reason

0:45:49.640 --> 0:45:54.279
<v Speaker 1>Winchester stuck with me so much is that I don't

0:45:54.440 --> 0:45:59.480
<v Speaker 1>know that I've seen any course from its era it

0:45:59.680 --> 0:46:02.560
<v Speaker 1>was originally kind of it was, it took its more

0:46:02.680 --> 0:46:04.560
<v Speaker 1>or less its modern form and kind of the late

0:46:04.719 --> 0:46:07.600
<v Speaker 1>teens is my understanding, and it kind of evolved from

0:46:07.640 --> 0:46:12.359
<v Speaker 1>there through the twenties. I don't know that I've seen

0:46:12.400 --> 0:46:16.359
<v Speaker 1>a course from that era, aside from Yale, that has

0:46:16.560 --> 0:46:23.239
<v Speaker 1>so much massive earth moving. I mean, like usually at

0:46:23.640 --> 0:46:28.000
<v Speaker 1>older courses, if you're talking about like maximalist courses from

0:46:28.360 --> 0:46:32.239
<v Speaker 1>the golden age of golf architecture, courses that you know,

0:46:33.080 --> 0:46:35.000
<v Speaker 1>don't don't make any secret of the fact that the

0:46:35.160 --> 0:46:38.520
<v Speaker 1>architects made some alterations to the landscape or sit on

0:46:38.640 --> 0:46:41.960
<v Speaker 1>pieces of land that needed to be changed in order

0:46:42.040 --> 0:46:46.520
<v Speaker 1>to be you know, formed into a golf course. Usually

0:46:47.080 --> 0:46:51.400
<v Speaker 1>with courses like that from this era, you see the

0:46:51.760 --> 0:46:54.560
<v Speaker 1>lion's share of the shaping, almost all of it around

0:46:54.600 --> 0:46:58.279
<v Speaker 1>the greens, right. You see the green pads built up

0:46:58.560 --> 0:47:01.520
<v Speaker 1>in order to make them flat enough to be puttable,

0:47:02.080 --> 0:47:04.520
<v Speaker 1>and you see some shaping of hazards around the greens.

0:47:04.560 --> 0:47:09.200
<v Speaker 1>But usually the fairways kind of sit naturally. At Winchester,

0:47:09.320 --> 0:47:12.439
<v Speaker 1>the thing that really struck me was that it sits

0:47:12.520 --> 0:47:16.400
<v Speaker 1>on such a severe hillside that you really wouldn't be

0:47:16.600 --> 0:47:20.280
<v Speaker 1>able to play golf on it if they hadn't basically

0:47:21.080 --> 0:47:24.640
<v Speaker 1>lifted up about half of the fairways. So these are

0:47:24.960 --> 0:47:29.040
<v Speaker 1>entire fairways that were built up from the hillside, like

0:47:29.200 --> 0:47:33.480
<v Speaker 1>propped on these ledges. Ross's team just had to go

0:47:33.560 --> 0:47:37.440
<v Speaker 1>and do this without modern machinery. And I think the

0:47:37.520 --> 0:47:41.120
<v Speaker 1>shaping is really cool looking. It's pretty overt, like you

0:47:41.200 --> 0:47:44.799
<v Speaker 1>can see where they made changes, but it looks kind

0:47:44.800 --> 0:47:47.840
<v Speaker 1>of rugged and gnarly, maybe because the course is just

0:47:48.239 --> 0:47:51.400
<v Speaker 1>older at this point and it's kind of settled into itself.

0:47:52.120 --> 0:47:55.680
<v Speaker 1>But looking at that course made me think about how

0:47:56.840 --> 0:48:00.640
<v Speaker 1>little we understand the golden age of golfer chitecture and

0:48:00.760 --> 0:48:03.880
<v Speaker 1>how many generalizations we make about it that are not

0:48:04.160 --> 0:48:07.600
<v Speaker 1>entirely accurate. I think people would be shocked at how

0:48:07.680 --> 0:48:11.320
<v Speaker 1>much earth moving went into making this golf course playable

0:48:11.920 --> 0:48:16.440
<v Speaker 1>and how kind of interestingly it's pulled off and so

0:48:17.000 --> 0:48:20.399
<v Speaker 1>really enjoyed Winchester. It's going to get worked on soon,

0:48:20.640 --> 0:48:23.839
<v Speaker 1>I think, maybe even coming up this next year by

0:48:24.040 --> 0:48:29.600
<v Speaker 1>Andrew Green, and you know, Andrew Green's a talented restoration specialist.

0:48:30.440 --> 0:48:32.680
<v Speaker 1>One thing I do hope about Winchester. One thing that

0:48:32.800 --> 0:48:35.680
<v Speaker 1>I like about it right now, and that I hope

0:48:35.719 --> 0:48:38.839
<v Speaker 1>kind of stays with it a bit is how old

0:48:38.920 --> 0:48:43.200
<v Speaker 1>it feels right? It really, you know, and there are

0:48:43.239 --> 0:48:47.640
<v Speaker 1>ways in which it's old that are probably not appealing

0:48:47.760 --> 0:48:50.759
<v Speaker 1>to members. You can see bunker liners sticking out. You

0:48:50.840 --> 0:48:56.319
<v Speaker 1>can see that some stuff needs attention. But right now

0:48:56.520 --> 0:48:59.800
<v Speaker 1>this course definitely feels like it's era. It feels like

0:48:59.880 --> 0:49:03.160
<v Speaker 1>it comes straight to us from the nineteen teens. And

0:49:03.760 --> 0:49:06.760
<v Speaker 1>one thing I really hope is that greens team finds

0:49:06.920 --> 0:49:11.160
<v Speaker 1>various ways to maintain that sense even as they do

0:49:11.360 --> 0:49:13.640
<v Speaker 1>some necessary updates across the golf.

0:49:13.440 --> 0:49:17.120
<v Speaker 2>Cold and what you're talking about there is bunker sand color.

0:49:17.200 --> 0:49:20.080
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, if it's bright white, bunker sand like right now,

0:49:20.160 --> 0:49:22.400
<v Speaker 1>the bunker sand there is basically like looks like it

0:49:22.560 --> 0:49:26.279
<v Speaker 1>was carted in from a lake beach, you know, and

0:49:27.040 --> 0:49:29.840
<v Speaker 1>so it looks like it's right, It looks right for

0:49:30.200 --> 0:49:30.600
<v Speaker 1>the site.

0:49:30.920 --> 0:49:33.960
<v Speaker 2>You're talking about bunker sand. You're talking about the grass.

0:49:34.160 --> 0:49:38.399
<v Speaker 2>You know, when you go to a lot of renovation renovations,

0:49:38.520 --> 0:49:41.600
<v Speaker 2>the grass will be like, you know, brand new mona

0:49:41.680 --> 0:49:45.000
<v Speaker 2>stand grass like. The idea of keeping some of the

0:49:45.120 --> 0:49:47.480
<v Speaker 2>greens like patchy like some of the best, some of

0:49:47.520 --> 0:49:49.759
<v Speaker 2>the best greens, I feel I have a lot of

0:49:49.760 --> 0:49:53.960
<v Speaker 2>different coloration. It's an amalgamation of grasses, right, That's what

0:49:54.120 --> 0:49:57.160
<v Speaker 2>gives it this old feel. And I do feel like

0:49:57.280 --> 0:50:02.440
<v Speaker 2>that's probably my least favorite trend with renovations, is just

0:50:02.640 --> 0:50:05.799
<v Speaker 2>the the way things look brand new. It's like, wait,

0:50:05.920 --> 0:50:08.560
<v Speaker 2>you just you you lost some of the you know,

0:50:08.880 --> 0:50:11.520
<v Speaker 2>the essence of it. I you know, it's it's part

0:50:11.560 --> 0:50:13.880
<v Speaker 2>of the cool thing about seeing an old building is

0:50:13.960 --> 0:50:16.640
<v Speaker 2>that it's old, right. You know. It's the same thing

0:50:16.680 --> 0:50:19.720
<v Speaker 2>about the old golf course. Right, there's just a feel

0:50:19.760 --> 0:50:22.440
<v Speaker 2>to it when it when it has those those grasses

0:50:22.520 --> 0:50:26.600
<v Speaker 2>that just don't look brand new, they're almost jarring, right. Yeah,

0:50:26.719 --> 0:50:31.439
<v Speaker 2>So I will I'll go. You know, I've got a tough,

0:50:31.719 --> 0:50:32.799
<v Speaker 2>tough selection here.

0:50:33.440 --> 0:50:35.480
<v Speaker 1>You did a lot of travel in twenty twenty three.

0:50:35.920 --> 0:50:41.160
<v Speaker 2>A decent amount, But I would say, I I'm gonna

0:50:41.280 --> 0:50:45.520
<v Speaker 2>I'm gonna pick you know, just generally with this this topic,

0:50:46.520 --> 0:50:50.760
<v Speaker 2>it's a place that I find that exceeds my expectations

0:50:51.520 --> 0:50:55.320
<v Speaker 2>is where I generally fall on this. Right, It's not

0:50:55.520 --> 0:50:59.520
<v Speaker 2>necessarily the best course that I saw, but it's the

0:50:59.640 --> 0:51:03.719
<v Speaker 2>one that I always that stick. The ones particularly that

0:51:03.880 --> 0:51:07.719
<v Speaker 2>stick with me are the ones that exceed what I

0:51:07.840 --> 0:51:12.560
<v Speaker 2>think they are going into it. So like, for example,

0:51:13.280 --> 0:51:17.680
<v Speaker 2>I had really high expectations of Hollywood Golf Club and

0:51:17.760 --> 0:51:21.040
<v Speaker 2>they met those expectations. That was an amazing golf course,

0:51:21.560 --> 0:51:23.799
<v Speaker 2>and I was, I cannot wait to see it again.

0:51:24.120 --> 0:51:28.160
<v Speaker 2>It is so cool. Right. I played Augusta National this year.

0:51:29.040 --> 0:51:34.719
<v Speaker 2>I had extraordinarily high expectations and it met those expectations.

0:51:34.760 --> 0:51:36.919
<v Speaker 2>A lot of that, like I struggle with that course

0:51:37.040 --> 0:51:42.160
<v Speaker 2>with like nostalgia. Right, I would say the courses, the

0:51:42.239 --> 0:51:46.000
<v Speaker 2>two courses that stand out to me as exceeding the

0:51:46.120 --> 0:51:51.279
<v Speaker 2>expectations I had going into them are Midland Hills in Minnesota.

0:51:52.560 --> 0:51:56.640
<v Speaker 2>I had always been very interested in this golf course

0:51:56.719 --> 0:51:59.239
<v Speaker 2>because from the beginning of the Frida Egg one of

0:51:59.280 --> 0:52:02.960
<v Speaker 2>the early kind of pieces that had us stood out

0:52:03.000 --> 0:52:05.520
<v Speaker 2>a little bit was the were these template pieces. And

0:52:05.600 --> 0:52:09.120
<v Speaker 2>I've been talking to Mike Mantheini, the superintendent there, for

0:52:09.440 --> 0:52:12.400
<v Speaker 2>years about pictures and stuff, and they just didn't have

0:52:12.520 --> 0:52:14.359
<v Speaker 2>very good pictures of the place. So I'd never really

0:52:14.480 --> 0:52:17.560
<v Speaker 2>seen the golf course outside of a Google Earth straight down.

0:52:17.840 --> 0:52:21.520
<v Speaker 2>Jim Urbina just did some renovation work there, restoration work there,

0:52:22.320 --> 0:52:27.040
<v Speaker 2>and it's really wonderful. The back nine is extraordinary like

0:52:27.160 --> 0:52:30.840
<v Speaker 2>the back nine is is great. It is like perfectly

0:52:30.960 --> 0:52:35.120
<v Speaker 2>scaled golf ground, and it's got some really cool templates,

0:52:35.360 --> 0:52:37.799
<v Speaker 2>some unique templates. Like one of the things that's super

0:52:37.840 --> 0:52:41.800
<v Speaker 2>cool there is their Burrits hole. The the trough in

0:52:41.880 --> 0:52:43.560
<v Speaker 2>the middle of the Burritz kind of goes on a

0:52:43.640 --> 0:52:47.000
<v Speaker 2>diagonal right as opposed to a straight line. I've never

0:52:47.080 --> 0:52:50.399
<v Speaker 2>seen a rainer Burrits look that way right where it's

0:52:50.480 --> 0:52:54.920
<v Speaker 2>kind of like diagonal. The alpshole is unbelievable. You get

0:52:55.000 --> 0:52:56.839
<v Speaker 2>over and then you're and then when you're coming out

0:52:56.880 --> 0:52:59.279
<v Speaker 2>of the Alps hole, if you look back, you see

0:52:59.320 --> 0:53:02.479
<v Speaker 2>the minut Apolis skyline. It's really cool.

0:53:02.880 --> 0:53:03.000
<v Speaker 1>Uh.

0:53:03.080 --> 0:53:06.439
<v Speaker 2>The Radan hole is kind of like a Radan punch bowl.

0:53:06.800 --> 0:53:10.319
<v Speaker 2>It's a really unique variety. And then on the front nine,

0:53:10.320 --> 0:53:12.400
<v Speaker 2>and the front nine is no slouch. It's got a

0:53:12.480 --> 0:53:15.560
<v Speaker 2>really neat Alps or a really neat no hole. Like

0:53:16.280 --> 0:53:20.479
<v Speaker 2>that course is wildly under talked about. Nobody talks about

0:53:20.520 --> 0:53:23.120
<v Speaker 2>that golf course like in the in the Twin Cities area.

0:53:23.640 --> 0:53:26.480
<v Speaker 2>And I think it's really good. I think it's a

0:53:26.560 --> 0:53:29.279
<v Speaker 2>lot better than some courses that are talked about a

0:53:29.400 --> 0:53:33.320
<v Speaker 2>much much more the other one. And I think like

0:53:33.360 --> 0:53:34.880
<v Speaker 2>a lot of it. It's like nobody's seen it, like

0:53:34.960 --> 0:53:37.840
<v Speaker 2>the photos. Like we live in this culture with Instagram

0:53:37.960 --> 0:53:39.840
<v Speaker 2>right where you see these courses and people are all

0:53:39.880 --> 0:53:41.799
<v Speaker 2>I want to play there. I don't think anybody has

0:53:41.920 --> 0:53:47.719
<v Speaker 2>really seen Midland Hills until this year, you know. So. Uh.

0:53:47.960 --> 0:53:51.239
<v Speaker 2>The other one that I that stood out as like

0:53:51.400 --> 0:53:55.040
<v Speaker 2>blowing away expectations with Saint George's in in uh on

0:53:55.200 --> 0:53:59.160
<v Speaker 2>Long Island. It's right next to Port Jefferson. Uh. It's

0:53:59.239 --> 0:54:02.799
<v Speaker 2>an easy fair from like Connecticut and stuff, and it's

0:54:02.920 --> 0:54:04.760
<v Speaker 2>just like one of those like it just a constant

0:54:04.800 --> 0:54:07.600
<v Speaker 2>reminder when you go to Long Island is like how

0:54:07.719 --> 0:54:11.759
<v Speaker 2>much of the oxygen National Golf Links and Shinnecock like

0:54:11.920 --> 0:54:12.359
<v Speaker 2>suck up?

0:54:12.560 --> 0:54:15.920
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, And the Saint George's is a Devereux Emmett golf course,

0:54:15.960 --> 0:54:19.040
<v Speaker 1>and Devereux Emmett is a you know, one of the

0:54:19.120 --> 0:54:23.719
<v Speaker 1>most significant designers in Connecticut and New York from the

0:54:23.920 --> 0:54:27.000
<v Speaker 1>early Golden Age to the mid Golden Age. He did

0:54:27.040 --> 0:54:29.120
<v Speaker 1>a lot of work in that region, but not much

0:54:29.160 --> 0:54:31.719
<v Speaker 1>outside of it, and so he's probably not as well

0:54:31.840 --> 0:54:36.000
<v Speaker 1>known as a lot of equally gifted architects who traveled

0:54:36.080 --> 0:54:38.719
<v Speaker 1>a bit more fun fact about Devereux. Emmett is that

0:54:38.840 --> 0:54:43.880
<v Speaker 1>he he was very much on site and helping during

0:54:44.120 --> 0:54:46.279
<v Speaker 1>the construction of National Golf Links. He was one of

0:54:46.360 --> 0:54:49.840
<v Speaker 1>the original funders of that project and was friends with C. B.

0:54:50.000 --> 0:54:54.560
<v Speaker 1>MacDonald And so yeah, he's he's very entwined with that

0:54:54.719 --> 0:54:57.640
<v Speaker 1>whole area and its golf architecture.

0:54:58.320 --> 0:55:02.680
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, so he he is his course, like his family course, right.

0:55:02.800 --> 0:55:06.080
<v Speaker 2>They wanted he wanted to build his what Charles what

0:55:06.200 --> 0:55:08.800
<v Speaker 2>CB McDonald had at Nashville. He wanted his own. And

0:55:08.880 --> 0:55:12.320
<v Speaker 2>he scoured like the area where he's from for a

0:55:12.400 --> 0:55:14.839
<v Speaker 2>long time trying to find land. Like he looked at

0:55:14.840 --> 0:55:16.640
<v Speaker 2>a lot of different sites. He said, ale, on this one,

0:55:16.719 --> 0:55:20.000
<v Speaker 2>it's it's awesome, awesome land. And I think the reason

0:55:20.120 --> 0:55:22.040
<v Speaker 2>it doesn't get talked about at all is because it's

0:55:22.040 --> 0:55:24.680
<v Speaker 2>like sixty three hundred yards, but you wouldn't know it's

0:55:24.719 --> 0:55:27.280
<v Speaker 2>sixty three hundred yards. It's like just like you're playing

0:55:27.360 --> 0:55:29.560
<v Speaker 2>up and over. There's a bunch of blind t shots

0:55:29.640 --> 0:55:32.800
<v Speaker 2>up and you know you're playing significant elevation. It is

0:55:33.000 --> 0:55:35.960
<v Speaker 2>so fun. It is so fun. It's got like the

0:55:36.120 --> 0:55:40.520
<v Speaker 2>right amount of like dramatic long island scale where you're like, wow,

0:55:40.880 --> 0:55:43.040
<v Speaker 2>like this is why there's great golf here is like

0:55:43.160 --> 0:55:45.480
<v Speaker 2>look at this, Look at what the way this hole

0:55:45.640 --> 0:55:48.640
<v Speaker 2>traverses this land. But then it's got like some really

0:55:49.239 --> 0:55:54.160
<v Speaker 2>like playful humorous quirk to it right some above ground,

0:55:54.640 --> 0:55:58.520
<v Speaker 2>uh you know hazards, some like really deep trench bunkers.

0:55:58.400 --> 0:56:02.880
<v Speaker 1>Crazy crazy bunkering, like just like splatters splatters of bunkering.

0:56:03.640 --> 0:56:07.120
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. So it's a cool rest restoration story too. The

0:56:07.200 --> 0:56:10.640
<v Speaker 2>club's kind of been at it the old Superintendent Adam

0:56:10.719 --> 0:56:13.319
<v Speaker 2>Jesse and Gil Hants have been kind of working at

0:56:13.360 --> 0:56:17.680
<v Speaker 2>this since like the nineties, and it is if they

0:56:17.760 --> 0:56:20.680
<v Speaker 2>do a little by little and the course keeps getting better,

0:56:20.760 --> 0:56:23.920
<v Speaker 2>it's almost all the way back to like when you

0:56:24.000 --> 0:56:26.120
<v Speaker 2>look at the old arial to what it is today,

0:56:26.200 --> 0:56:28.200
<v Speaker 2>it's like so close to being all the way back.

0:56:28.520 --> 0:56:30.880
<v Speaker 2>It is an awesome place. We're having an event there

0:56:30.880 --> 0:56:33.200
<v Speaker 2>in August. I like I'm jacked about it. I'm like

0:56:33.280 --> 0:56:33.880
<v Speaker 2>so excited.

0:56:34.160 --> 0:56:37.520
<v Speaker 1>Cool, Okay, I think we're at the point when we

0:56:37.600 --> 0:56:40.680
<v Speaker 1>can talk briefly about stuff that we're looking forward to

0:56:40.719 --> 0:56:43.640
<v Speaker 1>seeing in twenty twenty four. I really just want to

0:56:44.760 --> 0:56:48.239
<v Speaker 1>hit this very quickly. But you know, a lot of

0:56:48.320 --> 0:56:51.560
<v Speaker 1>course openings coming up, a lot of renovations are going

0:56:51.680 --> 0:56:56.960
<v Speaker 1>to you know, open up as well. But something I'm

0:56:57.000 --> 0:57:01.240
<v Speaker 1>particularly excited to see is some work from Kyle France

0:57:01.880 --> 0:57:07.560
<v Speaker 1>some original designs from Kyle Franz. Kyle is maybe best

0:57:07.640 --> 0:57:13.120
<v Speaker 1>known for his restorations of the ross courses just outside

0:57:13.160 --> 0:57:17.040
<v Speaker 1>of the Pinehurst Resort, so Mid Pines, Pine Needles and

0:57:17.160 --> 0:57:20.040
<v Speaker 1>Southern Pines. Kyle Frans did the work at all those

0:57:20.120 --> 0:57:24.040
<v Speaker 1>courses that you know, has really made them just as

0:57:24.080 --> 0:57:28.040
<v Speaker 1>impressive as most of what the Pinehurst Resort itself has

0:57:28.120 --> 0:57:33.000
<v Speaker 1>to offer. And recently Kyle has started to get more

0:57:33.760 --> 0:57:38.480
<v Speaker 1>new build jobs and one of those is outside of Austin,

0:57:38.600 --> 0:57:42.280
<v Speaker 1>Texas at Luling. There's more work that he's doing at

0:57:42.360 --> 0:57:47.800
<v Speaker 1>Cabot Cabot Citrus Farms. There's a project and I think,

0:57:47.920 --> 0:57:49.680
<v Speaker 1>you know, I don't have an exact date. And also

0:57:49.720 --> 0:57:53.560
<v Speaker 1>there are so many different courses at Cabot Citrus Farms.

0:57:53.560 --> 0:57:56.960
<v Speaker 1>I think care Yeah, there's there's some names to these

0:57:57.000 --> 0:58:00.400
<v Speaker 1>courses Career Squeeze Edge.

0:58:01.280 --> 0:58:04.200
<v Speaker 2>The Karuka or cab Itt Citrust. I believe it's a

0:58:04.760 --> 0:58:06.120
<v Speaker 2>fall opening.

0:58:05.960 --> 0:58:08.880
<v Speaker 1>Yes, which it's basically what used to be the Fasio

0:58:09.000 --> 0:58:10.000
<v Speaker 1>course there right, the.

0:58:11.760 --> 0:58:15.840
<v Speaker 2>Which was it's an amazing property. It's an amazing property.

0:58:16.040 --> 0:58:18.800
<v Speaker 1>So they regarded as one of one of the faz's

0:58:19.160 --> 0:58:23.120
<v Speaker 1>best designs and probably his best publicly accessible design. But

0:58:23.240 --> 0:58:25.120
<v Speaker 1>they've made the bold decision to just kind of let

0:58:25.480 --> 0:58:27.800
<v Speaker 1>cal Frans go crazy on it, and so, you know,

0:58:27.840 --> 0:58:30.040
<v Speaker 1>I'm just curious to see what he produces.

0:58:30.160 --> 0:58:35.400
<v Speaker 2>He is he's also building Broomsedge, which is outside of Columbia,

0:58:35.600 --> 0:58:37.720
<v Speaker 2>and that I think the plan is to have some

0:58:37.800 --> 0:58:42.080
<v Speaker 2>preview play by the fall four And one of the

0:58:42.120 --> 0:58:45.240
<v Speaker 2>cool things about that golf course is that it plans

0:58:45.320 --> 0:58:50.080
<v Speaker 2>to have some some very accessible aspects to it for

0:58:50.440 --> 0:58:53.520
<v Speaker 2>the public. While it's a private club, it will be accessible.

0:58:54.080 --> 0:58:59.320
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. Yeah, So he's working on some interesting new build projects.

0:58:59.480 --> 0:59:01.800
<v Speaker 1>And just as we talked about with Brian Schneider and

0:59:01.920 --> 0:59:06.439
<v Speaker 1>Blake Conan, there is this new generation of architects coming

0:59:06.520 --> 0:59:09.360
<v Speaker 1>up who have worked for years, made it through the

0:59:09.960 --> 0:59:15.680
<v Speaker 1>recession by doing jobs for Corn Crenshaw, Tom Doak, Gil Hants,

0:59:16.240 --> 0:59:21.360
<v Speaker 1>David McLay, kid Right, Ron Force, you know any number

0:59:21.400 --> 0:59:24.160
<v Speaker 1>of architects who are getting more more jobs than the

0:59:24.280 --> 0:59:30.240
<v Speaker 1>younger generation. These new newly emerging architects worked for them,

0:59:31.000 --> 0:59:34.320
<v Speaker 1>and now they're getting some opportunities to go crazy on

0:59:34.360 --> 0:59:37.000
<v Speaker 1>their own pieces of land. And I know from talking

0:59:37.080 --> 0:59:39.040
<v Speaker 1>to Kyle Franz that he has a lot of ideas

0:59:39.120 --> 0:59:42.880
<v Speaker 1>about where he wants to take the craft next. And

0:59:43.160 --> 0:59:46.600
<v Speaker 1>so do I know whether I'm going to love everything

0:59:46.680 --> 0:59:50.000
<v Speaker 1>he does at these courses? No, I don't know that

0:59:50.200 --> 0:59:53.840
<v Speaker 1>because I haven't seen them, but I can almost be

0:59:54.040 --> 0:59:57.440
<v Speaker 1>certain that it's going to be really interesting, really bold,

0:59:58.040 --> 1:00:01.360
<v Speaker 1>and it's going to push in some new directions that

1:00:01.480 --> 1:00:05.720
<v Speaker 1>we haven't seen golf architecture push recently. So looking forward

1:00:05.760 --> 1:00:05.920
<v Speaker 1>to that.

1:00:06.360 --> 1:00:09.640
<v Speaker 2>All right, you talked about this. One thing I'm super

1:00:09.720 --> 1:00:13.480
<v Speaker 2>excited about is the renovation of Madina. Just being somebody

1:00:13.520 --> 1:00:18.600
<v Speaker 2>from Chicago, it is. It is our real hope for

1:00:18.880 --> 1:00:20.320
<v Speaker 2>major championship.

1:00:20.000 --> 1:00:24.000
<v Speaker 1>The last hope of Chicago for the only major championship.

1:00:25.240 --> 1:00:27.320
<v Speaker 1>Olympia Fields might have something to say.

1:00:27.200 --> 1:00:29.600
<v Speaker 2>I don't think. I don't think the USA has gone back. Okay,

1:00:29.640 --> 1:00:33.320
<v Speaker 2>all right, all right, Uh, Madina has a lot of

1:00:33.480 --> 1:00:39.560
<v Speaker 2>things working as benefit obviously Chicago, but massive infrastructure to

1:00:39.800 --> 1:00:42.760
<v Speaker 2>host any type of tournament, you know, Ryder Cup to

1:00:43.240 --> 1:00:46.600
<v Speaker 2>US Open, and there are very few golf properties with

1:00:46.720 --> 1:00:51.600
<v Speaker 2>as much space. And I am super excited to see O. C. M. Ogilvy,

1:00:52.200 --> 1:00:56.080
<v Speaker 2>Kaking and Mead Uh they're you know, they're getting they're

1:00:56.160 --> 1:00:59.440
<v Speaker 2>kind of similar to France Kyle Franz. They're getting. We're

1:00:59.440 --> 1:01:02.480
<v Speaker 2>gonna see some of their first work come online. They've

1:01:02.520 --> 1:01:05.240
<v Speaker 2>had the Shady Oaks project that's been really kind of

1:01:05.320 --> 1:01:08.160
<v Speaker 2>quiet what people have said about it. They're building thirty

1:01:08.200 --> 1:01:11.440
<v Speaker 2>six holes at fall Line. They have the Madina renovation

1:01:11.920 --> 1:01:16.080
<v Speaker 2>that's coming online and it is, and then they have

1:01:16.160 --> 1:01:18.520
<v Speaker 2>a project up in Minneapolis, and I think, you know,

1:01:18.640 --> 1:01:23.240
<v Speaker 2>from from that perspective, it's super exciting to see what

1:01:23.680 --> 1:01:27.920
<v Speaker 2>a you know, a died in the Wool Championship course

1:01:28.080 --> 1:01:31.080
<v Speaker 2>that has like, you know, a big history of like

1:01:32.000 --> 1:01:35.400
<v Speaker 2>we're just gonna like, we're going all in on what

1:01:36.240 --> 1:01:40.760
<v Speaker 2>nineteen eighties Championship golf is, right hard hard like narrow fairways,

1:01:41.320 --> 1:01:44.200
<v Speaker 2>bunkers around the greens, and it's going to be completely different.

1:01:44.480 --> 1:01:48.040
<v Speaker 2>And hopefully there's a PGA Tour and a President's Cup

1:01:48.320 --> 1:01:53.000
<v Speaker 2>around when they're supposed to host in twenty twenty six, hopefully,

1:01:53.640 --> 1:01:58.960
<v Speaker 2>and we'll get to see a new architects groups idea

1:01:59.160 --> 1:02:02.080
<v Speaker 2>of what champ Pachhip golf is. And I think that's

1:02:02.120 --> 1:02:06.320
<v Speaker 2>super exciting. So that that one, to me is kind

1:02:06.320 --> 1:02:10.720
<v Speaker 2>of a Homer pick, and uh I'm excited about that.

1:02:11.360 --> 1:02:14.640
<v Speaker 1>All right. My homer pick is the shortiest course at

1:02:14.760 --> 1:02:18.080
<v Speaker 1>at Bandon. I don't know if that's exactly homer since it's.

1:02:17.960 --> 1:02:23.480
<v Speaker 2>Like a specific Northwestern right stick together?

1:02:23.840 --> 1:02:26.680
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, am I in central California? It's Portland, Oregon in

1:02:26.760 --> 1:02:30.400
<v Speaker 1>central California. No, no, no, oh well that oh no,

1:02:30.520 --> 1:02:32.720
<v Speaker 1>that would be ridiculous to say that. That's right. Yeah,

1:02:32.800 --> 1:02:36.960
<v Speaker 1>we're we're only only reasonable takes about geography here. Yeah.

1:02:37.320 --> 1:02:40.880
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, so us two Pacific northwesterns got to stick together,

1:02:41.040 --> 1:02:42.360
<v Speaker 2>us Cascadiens.

1:02:44.320 --> 1:02:46.680
<v Speaker 1>All right. I think I think that's it. From my end,

1:02:47.040 --> 1:02:48.200
<v Speaker 1>we've kind of we kind of covered it.

1:02:49.000 --> 1:02:52.480
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, this, Uh well, we'll talk soon and uh and

1:02:52.680 --> 1:02:54.800
<v Speaker 2>thanks for coming on and we can't wait for twenty

1:02:54.880 --> 1:02:58.040
<v Speaker 2>twenty four and fresh golf courses. Thanks to everybody for

1:02:58.080 --> 1:02:58.600
<v Speaker 2>a great year.

1:02:59.080 --> 1:03:10.240
<v Speaker 1>Thank you, Thank you for.

1:03:10.320 --> 1:03:13.440
<v Speaker 2>Listening to another edition of the Frida Egg Golf Podcast.

1:03:13.600 --> 1:03:17.560
<v Speaker 2>Today's episode was edited and produced by Matt Russ's Thank

1:03:17.600 --> 1:03:22.240
<v Speaker 2>you Matt. A quick reminder, I'm a procrastinator. I have

1:03:22.400 --> 1:03:25.800
<v Speaker 2>done no holiday shopping as of right now. It's not

1:03:25.840 --> 1:03:29.720
<v Speaker 2>a good situation. This is the curse that I put

1:03:29.800 --> 1:03:33.800
<v Speaker 2>myself in every year. A great last minute gift for

1:03:33.920 --> 1:03:36.880
<v Speaker 2>any golf lover and especially if you've been a part

1:03:36.920 --> 1:03:40.400
<v Speaker 2>of it and you've enjoyed it, give somebody the gift

1:03:40.440 --> 1:03:43.960
<v Speaker 2>of Club TFE. You can add a there's a gifting

1:03:44.080 --> 1:03:47.200
<v Speaker 2>option on the website, so if you visit the fridagg

1:03:47.280 --> 1:03:50.280
<v Speaker 2>dot com slash membership you can see all the details there.

1:03:50.360 --> 1:03:52.760
<v Speaker 2>You can give it as a gift is one hundred

1:03:52.760 --> 1:03:55.200
<v Speaker 2>and twenty dollars for the year. It gives you loads

1:03:55.240 --> 1:03:58.040
<v Speaker 2>of benefit, but mostly, like I think the biggest benefit

1:03:58.120 --> 1:04:01.640
<v Speaker 2>in what we're trying to build is like you're going

1:04:01.680 --> 1:04:04.120
<v Speaker 2>to get a lot of content and a lot more

1:04:04.200 --> 1:04:09.320
<v Speaker 2>from us, detailed course profiles, conversations about golf courses. I

1:04:09.400 --> 1:04:12.320
<v Speaker 2>assume if you're here, that's something you're interested in at

1:04:12.360 --> 1:04:15.000
<v Speaker 2>this point in the podcast, so this is where you

1:04:15.080 --> 1:04:19.880
<v Speaker 2>can get more. Garrett does an awesome job with Design Notebook.

1:04:19.960 --> 1:04:21.920
<v Speaker 2>I'm in and out of that, but he does an

1:04:21.920 --> 1:04:25.360
<v Speaker 2>awesome job Quarterback in that that's a weekly feature that

1:04:25.640 --> 1:04:27.840
<v Speaker 2>just kind of dives into all the trends and news

1:04:27.920 --> 1:04:32.040
<v Speaker 2>and different happenings around golf courses across the world. So

1:04:32.520 --> 1:04:34.680
<v Speaker 2>thank you guys for the support for those that have

1:04:34.800 --> 1:04:38.240
<v Speaker 2>joined Club TFF and if you're looking for a golf

1:04:38.320 --> 1:04:41.920
<v Speaker 2>lover gift, give the gift to you Club TFF. Thanks

1:04:42.080 --> 1:04:44.200
<v Speaker 2>and we will be back next week with a new

1:04:44.320 --> 1:04:46.800
<v Speaker 2>episode of the Friday Golf Podcast