Speaker 1: Happy Saturday. Today's Saturday Classic is the conclusion of last
Speaker 1: Saturday's episode on the Palmer Raids, which we are running
Speaker 1: after getting a request from our listener Amy. Last week
Speaker 1: part one covered some of the historical context, including a
Speaker 1: series of bombings that took place in nineteen nineteen, and
Speaker 1: today's episode is about the series of raids, arrests, incarcerations,
Speaker 1: and deportations that followed those bombings. This originally came out
Speaker 1: on December seventh, twenty sixteen. Welcome to Stuff You Missed
Speaker 1: in History Class, a production of iHeartRadio. Hello, and welcome
Speaker 1: to the podcast. I'm Holly Frye and I'm Tracy B. Wilson.
Speaker 1: So in our last episode, we talked about the fear
Speaker 1: and unrest that gripped the United States at the conclusion
Speaker 1: of World War One. Armistice certainly did not put an
Speaker 1: end to the stresses of financial problems and racial divide
Speaker 1: and labor strikes that were happening throughout the country, and
Speaker 1: there was a growing fear that a revolution incited by
Speaker 1: foreign anarchists or communists was going to change America forever.
Speaker 1: And after rising through the political ranks to become Attorney General,
Speaker 1: and after a series of coordinated bomb attacks on prominent
Speaker 1: US citizens. A. Mitchell Palmer made it his mission to
Speaker 1: root out what he believed to be a revolutionary threat
Speaker 1: to national security. So we highly recommend you listen to
Speaker 1: part one of this two part episode before this one
Speaker 1: so that you have a fuller context for the events
Speaker 1: that we're about to talk about. Because while there were
Speaker 1: some legitimate concerning events that happened, this quickly spread and
Speaker 1: became about one man's hunt to basically get rid of
Speaker 1: as many immigrants as he could. Starting on November seventh,
Speaker 1: nineteen nineteen, two years after Russia's Bolshevik Revolution, locations in
Speaker 1: twelve different sets danes and towns were raided by Palmer's
Speaker 1: assembled forces in a coordinated effort. One of the rated
Speaker 1: locations was the Russian People's House at one thirty three
Speaker 1: East fifteenth Street in New York, and this building housed
Speaker 1: the office of the Federated Unions of Russian Workers, as
Speaker 1: well as a cafeteria and classrooms. When the agents from
Speaker 1: the Department of Justice arrived, they had warrants for a
Speaker 1: few suspects, but they launched a full scale attack on
Speaker 1: the entire building and everyone in it. Furniture and property
Speaker 1: were destroyed, and students from classrooms were violently herded into
Speaker 1: stairwells and in many cases shoves so that they fell downstairs.
Speaker 1: Several hundred people in total were beaten with quote blackjacks
Speaker 1: and stair rails. Those same several hundred people were taken
Speaker 1: to a nearby Department of Justice office and questioned. Only
Speaker 1: an estimated one fifth of those initially taken into custody
Speaker 1: were held. The rest were released, but many of them
Speaker 1: were seriously injured. The treatment of the group at the
Speaker 1: hands of the Department of Justice led to a protest
Speaker 1: at Madison Square Garden the following night, led by attorney
Speaker 1: and activist Dudley Field Malone, and a letter was written
Speaker 1: to the Attorney General by the New York Bar Association
Speaker 1: that demanded to know if the raid had indeed been
Speaker 1: under the direction of the Department of Justice, and also
Speaker 1: requested an investigation into the events. That letter was never
Speaker 1: acknowledged by Palmer's office. The same night of that protest,
Speaker 1: on November eighth, a group of men had gathered to
Speaker 1: discuss purchasing a vehicle so that everyone in the community
Speaker 1: to learn how to drive. That meeting in Bridgeport, Connecticut
Speaker 1: was raided and sixty three arrests were made. Sixteen people
Speaker 1: were released over the following two days, but after three
Speaker 1: days of being held in cramped quarters at the local
Speaker 1: police station with little to no food, the remaining forty
Speaker 1: seven were moved to the Hartford Jail under the direction
Speaker 1: of the Department of Justice, and while they were in
Speaker 1: the heart for jail, there were additional arrests being made
Speaker 1: and those individuals were added to the numbers, and people
Speaker 1: who applied for visitation to the arrested men were also
Speaker 1: often jailed until the Hertford group number ninety seven. They
Speaker 1: were questioned, they were threatened with suffocation and hanging, and
Speaker 1: they were beaten. The Department of Labor and the Department
Speaker 1: of Justice worked in conjunction to file arrest warrants after
Speaker 1: the fact for all of the men that were held there.
Speaker 1: They were all kept alone in their cells with agents
Speaker 1: of the Department of Justice as their only visitors. They
Speaker 1: were allowed no reading materials. Many of the men had
Speaker 1: no idea what they were even being held for, and
Speaker 1: when they questioned that their jailers got no information. Most
Speaker 1: had no idea if there was bail set for them,
Speaker 1: and if there was how much it was. They were
Speaker 1: given two to five minutes per day at a sink
Speaker 1: outside of their cells to wash their face and hands,
Speaker 1: and they were allowed five minutes of tubb time per
Speaker 1: month to wash their bodies. Food was often insufficient and
Speaker 1: also foul, and family and friends were not allowed any
Speaker 1: contact with these men in the prison. Punishment in the
Speaker 1: Heart for Jail took place in four identical rooms. Each
Speaker 1: of them were fifty one inches by one hundred and
Speaker 1: six inches that's about one point three meters by two
Speaker 1: point seven meters in their floor size, and these rooms
Speaker 1: were situated over a boiler room, and consequently they would
Speaker 1: become unbearably hot. Men suspected of holding anarchist or communist
Speaker 1: ideologies were put into such rooms for thirty six to
Speaker 1: sixty hours at a time, with one glass of water
Speaker 1: and one piece of bread given to them every twelve hours.
Speaker 1: Most were unconscious when their time in a punishment room
Speaker 1: had ended. According to a later investigation, only one person
Speaker 1: in the five months that they were using these rooms
Speaker 1: was actually able to walk back to his regular cell
Speaker 1: without help. The situation in Hartford lasted, as we just mentioned,
Speaker 1: for five months until April nineteen twenty. At that point
Speaker 1: a lawyer finally managed to get into the jail and
Speaker 1: the conditions were immediately deemed unacceptable, which we will talk
Speaker 1: about more in a moment. In December, a number of
Speaker 1: the detainees were deported to Russia by ship, which was
Speaker 1: nicknamed the Red Arc and Soviet Arc in press reports.
Speaker 1: Although this really was done rather quietly and quickly. It's
Speaker 1: unclear if there was sufficient paperwork for all of the
Speaker 1: people put on that boat. Yeah. Often with an event
Speaker 1: as old as this one is, like, it is old
Speaker 1: enough that typically I can find a lot of photos
Speaker 1: that might be in the public domain, and it's recent
Speaker 1: enough that there are a lot of photos. It's not
Speaker 1: so old that there are no pictures, not a lot
Speaker 1: of pictures of this. No. The response to these initial
Speaker 1: raids had been largely positive. Emboldened by the November successes,
Speaker 1: A Mitchel Palmer made even plans. On January second, nineteen twenty,
Speaker 1: a second mass raid effort was launched, and approximately three
Speaker 1: thousand people were arrested over the course of several days
Speaker 1: in thirty different cities and towns. On the second, a
Speaker 1: chief agent to the Department of Justice in Detroit named
Speaker 1: Arthur L. Barkie received an order from Palmer to raid
Speaker 1: the suspected headquarters of the Communist Party. Eight hundred men
Speaker 1: were captured as they attended classes and dances in the building,
Speaker 1: and then they were held for three to six days
Speaker 1: in a corridor in the city's federal building in the dark.
Speaker 1: The captive men had no beds, They slept on the floor.
Speaker 1: All eight hundred of them had to wait in lines
Speaker 1: for access to the one drinking fountain and one toilet available.
Speaker 1: No food was given to them until family members started
Speaker 1: showing up with provisions about twenty hours into their captivity.
Speaker 1: They were not allowed to speak to family or legal counsel,
Speaker 1: and enforcement eventually started moving them in groups to precinct
Speaker 1: police stations with actual holding cells. Between one hundred thirty
Speaker 1: and one hundred forty of these men were moved to
Speaker 1: the police bullpen, which was intended for keeping people arrested
Speaker 1: for petty crimes for a few hours at a time.
Speaker 1: It was a cellar room with one window twenty four
Speaker 1: by thirty feet that's seven point three by nine point
Speaker 1: one meters in length and width, and those men, again
Speaker 1: one hundred and thirty to one hundred and forty men
Speaker 1: were held in that cramped space for a week with
Speaker 1: no beds, relying primarily on food that was brought in
Speaker 1: by relatives to survive. Tallies of the men estimated that
Speaker 1: approximately three hundred and fifty of them were American citizens
Speaker 1: or aliens who could prove that they were in no
Speaker 1: way connected to any sort of radicalism. Of the eight
Speaker 1: hundred men initially seized, there were eventually warrants issued for
Speaker 1: four hundred forty of them ten days after they had
Speaker 1: actually been arrested. One hundred and forty of them got
Speaker 1: out on bond, and the other three hundred were moved
Speaker 1: to an army fort for longer term holding, and they
Speaker 1: remained there for several months. We're actually going to discuss
Speaker 1: something you might not expect in just a moment, which
Speaker 1: is paperwork. But before we do, let's pause for just
Speaker 1: a moment, take a break from the palmer rades because
Speaker 1: it is a little bit heavy, and talk about one
Speaker 1: of our sponsors that keeps the lights on in the
Speaker 1: studios so we could talk about these heavy topics. So
Speaker 1: if you're wondering how in the world they got the
Speaker 1: man power to issue all these warrants for all these arrests.
Speaker 1: The answer is they didn't. Most of the people were
Speaker 1: rounded up without warrants and with no formal paperwork to
Speaker 1: document the arrests. About five thousand people were taking into custody,
Speaker 1: most of these people being completely innocent. And when you
Speaker 1: consider that these conditions that we talked about in these
Speaker 1: two in instances, there were many more than those two
Speaker 1: instances that we just talked about. They were being kept
Speaker 1: in similar conditions, completely innocent, for weeks and sometimes months
Speaker 1: at a time. But the other thing that was interesting
Speaker 1: was that not all of the people who were accused
Speaker 1: of anti American sentiment during this time were captured in raids.
Speaker 1: Some had their lives ruined in more subtle, but no
Speaker 1: less damning ways. And one of these was an art
Speaker 1: teacher named Julia Pratt, and she had been suspended from
Speaker 1: her teaching job abruptly, and when the school board held
Speaker 1: a hearing to review her case, a man showed up
Speaker 1: named Hermann Bernard, and he testified that he had been
Speaker 1: an undercover agent of the Department of Justice and that
Speaker 1: in his undercover role he became a secretary of the
Speaker 1: Buffalo Communist Party, and he then said that he knew
Speaker 1: and had records of Miss Pratt as a member of
Speaker 1: that party and the dates on which she paid her dues.
Speaker 1: But that art teacher told a very different story in
Speaker 1: her testimony. She said, on July eighteenth, nineteen nine, team
Speaker 1: Miss Harris invited me into her home to meet some
Speaker 1: quote interesting intellectual friends of hers. As she put it,
Speaker 1: I went out to Kenmore. Herman Bernard came in with
Speaker 1: two women friends of his. He constantly injected over drawn
Speaker 1: statements against the government into the conversation and outline in
Speaker 1: glowing terms the work the Communist Party would perform and
Speaker 1: emancipating the oppressed and exploited. Bernard later came to my
Speaker 1: house with others of the same group, ate at my table,
Speaker 1: and I played the harp for him. It is only
Speaker 1: on the testimony of this agent provocateur that the board
Speaker 1: has dismissed me. And again that's one example, but there
Speaker 1: were others where people had basically sort of like baited
Speaker 1: a situation where they would go in and talk about
Speaker 1: communism and people would sort of politely nod, and then
Speaker 1: they would be like, that's a communist. There were some
Speaker 1: very squirrely things going on pretty sure that's called entrapment.
Speaker 1: It is indeed. Still other people from Hoover's list were
Speaker 1: apprehended at Palmer's orders, often beaten and sometimes taken from
Speaker 1: their homes, so where they weren't raiding like big group gatherings,
Speaker 1: but they were just going to individual people's homes and
Speaker 1: taking them out, often without warrant and with no cause
Speaker 1: that they stated. In at least some cases, fake testimonies
Speaker 1: were typed up and signed with forged signatures. There's a
Speaker 1: report we're going to talk about in a moment that
Speaker 1: has one of these instances where it is clearly a
Speaker 1: forged signature. There were many, many instances of poor treatment
Speaker 1: at the hands of Palmer's agents. So, as I've said
Speaker 1: a couple times now, what we have selected here to
Speaker 1: detail is just a sampling. While there had been some
Speaker 1: unease about the November raids by the public, the January
Speaker 1: raids caused real concern, not fear of communists or anarchists,
Speaker 1: but fear that the Attorney General had far overstepped his bounds.
Speaker 1: In part in response to this rash of raids that
Speaker 1: were happening without cause, on January nineteenth, nineteen twenty, the
Speaker 1: American Civil Liberties Union was formed, and this was an
Speaker 1: effort on the part of a number of concerned citizens,
Speaker 1: many of which had already been working in the National
Speaker 1: Civil Liberties Bureau, to shift the focus away from that
Speaker 1: group's litigation only approach to one that was more action
Speaker 1: oriented and focused on education as well as fighting legal battles.
Speaker 1: In the spring of nineteen twenty, the tide continued to
Speaker 1: turn against Palmer. Assistant Secretary of Labor Lewis F. Post
Speaker 1: saw the Palmer raids as one man's ambition spinning rapidly
Speaker 1: out of control, with nothing limiting the actions that were
Speaker 1: being taken. When Posts found out about the men being
Speaker 1: held at Hartford Prison in April of that year, he
Speaker 1: had them all transferred immediately to the Immigration station at
Speaker 1: Deer Island, Boston, where their conditions were better and their
Speaker 1: cases could be evaluated and properly documented. Post went on
Speaker 1: to cancel more than fifteen hundred deportations, which was a
Speaker 1: slap in the face to Palmer and an act fact
Speaker 1: that some people that were really behind Palmer's moves thought
Speaker 1: were was treasonous. There was actually an attempt to impeach
Speaker 1: Lewis Post, but the Assistant Secretary gave extremely persuasive and
Speaker 1: powerful testimony during his appearance before Congress, which caused the
Speaker 1: various politicians that had been calling for his impeachment to
Speaker 1: back off, and some of them actually started to see
Speaker 1: that civil liberties had been outright abused during these raids.
Speaker 1: One of the truly heartbreaking effects of the Palmer raids
Speaker 1: were the very real, immediate and long lasting effects that
Speaker 1: they had in the lives of innocent people who were
Speaker 1: taking into custody. Often, they struggled to find work after
Speaker 1: their confinement because even if they were released without charges,
Speaker 1: there was still a shadow of Bolshevism on them and
Speaker 1: employers were unwilling to hire them. And Palmer continued to
Speaker 1: warn the public that terrorist attacks were coming. He was
Speaker 1: making predictions about like, on this day, this will happen.
Speaker 1: It's my intelligence tells me this. But none of those
Speaker 1: preictions were materializing, and his credibility really suffered for it.
Speaker 1: On May twenty eighth, nineteen twenty twelve, lawyers issued a
Speaker 1: report on the Palmer raids. They were R. G. Brown
Speaker 1: of Memphis, Tennessee, Zechariah Chaffee Junior of Cambridge, Massachusetts, Felix
Speaker 1: Frankfurter of Cambridge, Massachusetts, Ernst Freud of Chicago, Illinois, Swinburne
Speaker 1: Hail of New York City, Francis Fisher Kane of Philadelphia, Pennsylvania,
Speaker 1: Alfred S. Niles of Baltimore, Maryland, Roscoe Pound of Cambridge, Massachusetts,
Speaker 1: Jackson H. Ralston of Washington, d C. David Wallerstein of Philadelphia, Pennsylvania,
Speaker 1: Frank P. Walsh of New York City, and Sorell Williams
Speaker 1: of Saint Louis, Missouri. In this report detailed all of
Speaker 1: these instances of the Palmer raids, how literally thousands of
Speaker 1: alleged radicals had been arrested with no warrants, held in
Speaker 1: substandard conditions, and had been denied contact with family member
Speaker 1: and legal counsel. And this document was jointly published by
Speaker 1: the ACLU and the National Popular Government League. This report was,
Speaker 1: I mean, perhaps surprisingly, based on the political climate that
Speaker 1: we've been talking about in these two episodes, well received.
Speaker 1: It appeared that in the face of the brutal and
Speaker 1: illegal behavior of the Department of Justice under the guidance
Speaker 1: of Attorney General A. Mitchell Palmer, public attitudes were shifting
Speaker 1: away from this fervent blinding fear of the other. And
Speaker 1: we're going to go into details about the contents of
Speaker 1: that report, but before we do, this is probably a
Speaker 1: good place to pause and have a word from one
Speaker 1: of our sponsors. So this opening of the report that
Speaker 1: we talked about before we went to break is a
Speaker 1: letter to the people of the United States, and it
Speaker 1: is lengthy, but I want to read a significant portion
Speaker 1: of this introductory letter here. It reads to the American people.
Speaker 1: For more than six months, we, the undersigned lawyers, whose
Speaker 1: sworn duty it is to uphold the Constitution and laws
Speaker 1: of the United States, have seen with growing apprehension the
Speaker 1: continued violation of that constitution and breaking of those laws
Speaker 1: by the Department of Justice of the United States Government.
Speaker 1: Under the guise of a campaign for the suppression of
Speaker 1: radical activities. The Office of the Attorney General, acting by
Speaker 1: its local agents throughout the country and giving express instructions
Speaker 1: from Washington, has committed continued illegal acts. Quote. Wholesale arrests
Speaker 1: of both aliens and citizens have been made without warrant
Speaker 1: or any process of law. Men and women have been
Speaker 1: jailed and held in communicado without access of friends or counsel.
Speaker 1: Homes have been entered without search warrant, and property seized
Speaker 1: and removed. Other property has been wantonly destroyed. Working men
Speaker 1: and working women suspected of radical views have been shamefully
Speaker 1: abused and maltreated. The Department of Justice have been introduced
Speaker 1: into radical organizations for the purpose of informing upon their
Speaker 1: members or inciting them to activities. These agents have even
Speaker 1: been instructed from Washington to arrange meetings upon certain dates
Speaker 1: for the express object of facilitating wholesale raids and arrests
Speaker 1: in support of these illegal acts, and to create sentiment
Speaker 1: in its favor. The Department of Justice has also constituted
Speaker 1: itself a propaganda bureau, and has sent to newspapers and
Speaker 1: magazines of this country quantities of material designed to excite
Speaker 1: public opinion against radicals, all at the expense of the
Speaker 1: government and outside the scope of the Attorney General's duties.
Speaker 1: We make no argument in favor of any radical doctrine
Speaker 1: as such, whether socialist, communist, or anarchists. No one of
Speaker 1: us belongs to any of those schools of thought. Nor
Speaker 1: do we now raise any questions as to the constitutional
Speaker 1: protection of free speech and a free press. We are
Speaker 1: concerned solely with bringing to the attention of the American
Speaker 1: people the utterly illegal acts which have been committed by
Speaker 1: those charged with the highest duty of enforcing the laws.
Speaker 1: Acts which have caused widespread suffering and unrest, have struck
Speaker 1: at the foundation of American free institutions, and have brought
Speaker 1: the name of our country into disrepute. The report grouped
Speaker 1: the various acts of Palmer's efforts into six categories. Cruel
Speaker 1: and unusual punishments, arrests without warrant, unreasonable searches and seizures,
Speaker 1: provocative agents basically entrapment operatives compelling persons to witness against themselves,
Speaker 1: and propaganda by the Department of Justice and by the Numbers.
Speaker 1: The report offers a pretty damning assessment of the effectiveness
Speaker 1: of Palmer's methods. As of November fourteenth, nineteen nineteen, the
Speaker 1: Attorney General had assembled a list of sixty thousand people
Speaker 1: by name that were suspected of radicalism of one kind
Speaker 1: or another. As of January first, nineteen twenty, two hundred
Speaker 1: sixty three of these sixty thousand people had been deported.
Speaker 1: From January first to the report's release in late May,
Speaker 1: there had been eighteen more people deported, with another five
Speaker 1: hundred and twenty nine ordered to deport by Palmer. Another
Speaker 1: one thousand, five hundred forty seven warrants for deportation were
Speaker 1: canceled during that time. By post. Of those sixty thousand suspects,
Speaker 1: the Attorney General had only deported eight hundred and ten,
Speaker 1: and as the report points out, that left more than
Speaker 1: fifty one thousand people to be dealt with by Palmer's
Speaker 1: own records. So in inflating the numbers of potential dangers,
Speaker 1: he basically stacked the deck against his own forces because
Speaker 1: they wound up looking pretty unineffective. And in concluding that
Speaker 1: introduction to the report, the lawyers who worked on it wrote, quote,
Speaker 1: it is a fallacy to suppose that, any more than
Speaker 1: in the past, any servant of the people can safely
Speaker 1: arrogate to himself unlimited authority. To proceed upon such a
Speaker 1: supposition is to deny the fundamental American theory of the
Speaker 1: consent of the governed. Here is no question of a vague,
Speaker 1: threatened menace, but a present assault upon the most sacred
Speaker 1: principles of our constitutional liberty. One of the testimonies included
Speaker 1: in this report is from an immigrant named Alexander Bukowetski,
Speaker 1: who had come to the United States from Russia and
Speaker 1: had been captured in the November raids. One section of
Speaker 1: his statement reads quote, when I came to America, I
Speaker 1: came with a thought that I was coming to a
Speaker 1: free country, a place of freedom and happiness, and I
Speaker 1: was anxious to come to get away from the Zaristic
Speaker 1: form of government. As much as I was anxious to
Speaker 1: come here to America, I am a hundred times more
Speaker 1: anxious to run away from Americanism and return to Soviet Russia,
Speaker 1: where I will at least be able to live. Bukowetski's
Speaker 1: testimony also mentions the fact that while he and men
Speaker 1: like him were confined for months on end, their families
Speaker 1: really suffered. Their wives and children often went hungry. They
Speaker 1: had to depend on the kindness of other people in
Speaker 1: their communities just to survive. Another statement included in the
Speaker 1: report is from Bukowetski's twelve year old daughter, Violet, who
Speaker 1: witnessed her mother being beaten by prison officials when the
Speaker 1: family attempted to visit her father. Her father jumped in
Speaker 1: front of his wife to shield her and was also
Speaker 1: beaten badly for doing so. Shots were fired by one
Speaker 1: of the guards, hitting another imprisoned man in the knee.
Speaker 1: Missus Bukowetski was deeply shaken by this incident and confined
Speaker 1: to her bed for an extended period of time, diagnosed
Speaker 1: by her doctor as having a nervous breakdown. In August
Speaker 1: of nineteen twenty, the ACLU published an informational pamphlet about
Speaker 1: the Red Scare titled Seeing Red Civil Liberty in the
Speaker 1: Law in the period following the war, and it really
Speaker 1: outlined for people the conditions of fear and governmental overstepping
Speaker 1: that led to the climax of the Red Scare, the
Speaker 1: Palmer Raids, And in the pamphlet's conclusion, it reads, civil
Speaker 1: liberty is more important today than it was in the
Speaker 1: stagnant period when we had it, because no one troubled
Speaker 1: to abridge it. The world is rising upon one of
Speaker 1: the periodic waves which carry it onward towards civilized adjustment
Speaker 1: for human welfare. Despite all of the bad press around
Speaker 1: the raids, Palmer still ran for the Democratic Party's presidential
Speaker 1: nomination of nineteen twenty as he had planned, and he lost.
Speaker 1: In March nineteen twenty one, he returned once again to
Speaker 1: private practice as a lawyer. Palmer, for his part, was
Speaker 1: never remorseful about what had taken place in any public statement,
Speaker 1: at least that he made. In nineteen twenty one, he
Speaker 1: testified to the Investigative Senate Committee on the Raids, and
Speaker 1: he defended the entire enterprise, saying, quote, I apologize for
Speaker 1: nothing the Department of Justice has done. I glory in it.
Speaker 1: I point with pride and enthusiasm to the results of
Speaker 1: that work. And if agents of the Department of Labor
Speaker 1: were a little rough and unkind with these alien agitators,
Speaker 1: I think it might well be overlooked in the general
Speaker 1: good to the country. In September nineteen twenty one, FBI
Speaker 1: Director William J. Flynn abruptly resigned, claiming a need to
Speaker 1: attend to a private business matters a very troubling time
Speaker 1: in America's history that we don't talk about very much.
Speaker 1: I had not heard much about it at all before
Speaker 1: you brought up wanting to do it as an episode. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I mean, you see how fear can really like emboldened
Speaker 1: situations like that, and that it is troubling. I want
Speaker 1: to say a lot more, but it will not be cool.
Speaker 1: So thanks so much for joining us. On this Saturday.
Speaker 1: If you'd like to send us a note, our email
Speaker 1: addresses History Podcast at iHeartRadio dot com, and you can
Speaker 1: subscribe to the show on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,
Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.