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Speaker 1: Hey Jorge, did you get the outline I sent you

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Speaker 1: for this episode? I did, Why, well, I didn't hear

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Speaker 1: back from you about it.

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Speaker 5: Oh well, I guess you should only worry if you

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Speaker 5: do hear bad from me.

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Speaker 1: Oh that's right, I forgot. No reply also means something.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, you know. It means it's all good, or it

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Speaker 5: means I didn't see your email. Or maybe it means

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Speaker 5: I'll just reply later.

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Speaker 1: Sounds like a superposition of quantum possibilities.

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Speaker 5: That's right. Yes, I believe in q mail, not an email.

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Speaker 1: I hope you don't get entangled with your inbox.

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Speaker 5: M A box is a pretty big quantum mess, to

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Speaker 5: be honest, Maybe one day it'll collapse. Well, you know

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Speaker 5: what they say. I like to wave at my email's

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Speaker 5: estate fly by.

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Speaker 1: I wonder if Schroderer got email.

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Speaker 5: He did and he didn't.

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Speaker 1: Right.

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Speaker 5: Hi, I'm Horam, a cartoonist and the co author of

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Speaker 5: Frequently Asked Questions about the Universe.

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Speaker 1: Hi, I'm Daniel. I'm a particle physicist and a professor

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Speaker 1: at UC Irvine, and I'm going to do my best

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Speaker 1: not to spend most of this podcast chuckling.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, you should be explaining things, Daniel, not laughing.

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Speaker 1: Well, we got an email from a listener this morning

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Speaker 1: complaining that the chuckle time on the podcast has been

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Speaker 1: going up.

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Speaker 5: Oh really, am I getting too funny? Is that what

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Speaker 5: you're saying? Or are you laughing at your own jokes?

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Speaker 5: I'm not sure.

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Speaker 1: Just too much chuckling overall, more content less chuckling.

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Speaker 5: I see, more physics, less humor.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly, Stop these spontaneous expressions of fun.

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Speaker 5: Please, boy, you can't please everybody all the time. Well,

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Speaker 5: we'll try to be more serious about it. We'll try,

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Speaker 5: but we'll probably fail. But anyways, welcome to our podcast,

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Speaker 5: Daniel and Jorge Explain the Universe, a production of iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 1: In which we try to be serious questions of the

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Speaker 1: universe and have fun while doing it. We ask the biggest,

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Speaker 1: deepest questions about how everything out there works. What, in

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Speaker 1: the end are the fundamental rules of reality? Why is

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Speaker 1: it even possible for us to understand them? Or is it?

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Speaker 1: Can we import the rules of the universe into our

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Speaker 1: minds so that they actually make sense to us? On

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Speaker 1: this podcast, we push against that frontier and try to

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Speaker 1: make sure that you understand everything that humans do and

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Speaker 1: do not know about the universe.

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Speaker 5: That's right, because what could be more fun than exploring

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Speaker 5: this humongous and complex and complicated and amazing universe. And

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Speaker 5: what could be more truckleworthy than thinking that us humans

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Speaker 5: can one day understand all of it.

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Speaker 1: It does seem sometimes like the universe is playing a

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Speaker 1: big joke on us. It's like, oh, it seems to

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Speaker 1: work this way. F equals im is totally right. No, actually,

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Speaker 1: we were lying. It's a completely different set of rules.

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Speaker 5: Wait are you saying quantum mechanics. It's just a big punchline.

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Speaker 1: The whole thing is a psyop man.

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Speaker 5: The universe is trying to psych us out.

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Speaker 1: See what we can get these humans to believe crazy

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Speaker 1: stuff like true randomness.

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Speaker 5: Well, you know, we are part of the universe. Does

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Speaker 5: that mean we're playing a joke on ourselves? Mmmm?

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Speaker 1: I suppose so. Yes, we are sigh opping ourselves.

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Speaker 5: I mean we're the joke. Then you have to say,

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Speaker 5: if you're the only one who doesn't get the joke,

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Speaker 5: the joke's on you.

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Speaker 1: As long as I get to hear the secrets of

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Speaker 1: the universe, I'm happy if somebody laughs at me at

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Speaker 1: the same time.

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Speaker 5: But it is an interesting and sometimes funny universe because

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Speaker 5: it is so weird, especially quantum mechanics. Is this weird

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Speaker 5: theory about the universe. It says that things are truly random,

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Speaker 5: and that sometimes there are multiple things that are true

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Speaker 5: at the same time.

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Speaker 1: It is really amazing that we can spend thousands of

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Speaker 1: years developing an intuition for how the universe works, and

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Speaker 1: then a few hundred years describing it mathematically, only to

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Speaker 1: discover that at its core, at a deeper level, the

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Speaker 1: rules of the universe are completely different, totally foreign to us,

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Speaker 1: maybe even alien, and yet those alien rules somehow weave

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Speaker 1: themselves together so that at our scale and our experience,

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Speaker 1: they in the way that's intuitive to us. It's incredible

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Speaker 1: that at different scales the universe seems to follow these

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Speaker 1: totally different sets of laws, incongruent ideas about the very

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Speaker 1: nature of space and time and information, and yet they

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Speaker 1: weave themselves together at the interface. It's incredible.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, are you saying quantum mechanics is just a tiny

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Speaker 5: little joke or it's only funny in small places.

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Speaker 1: It's like ten to the twenty six tiny jokes, which

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Speaker 1: all add up to one hilarious chuckle to.

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Speaker 5: One average land experience of.

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Speaker 1: The universe, exactly until the universe collapses on the weight

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Speaker 1: of its own puns.

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Speaker 5: But quantum mechanics says the universe gets really weird at

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Speaker 5: the very smallest scales, which maybe you don't think affects

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Speaker 5: you on an everyday basis, but it actually does. You know,

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Speaker 5: most of our electronics and a lot of our communications,

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Speaker 5: and all of our devices, they all sort of are

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Speaker 5: depend on our knowledge of quantum mechanics.

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Speaker 1: And as we try to understand the way that the

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Speaker 1: universe works, we tend to revert to this microscopic picture.

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Speaker 1: When we say we want to understand the universe, some

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Speaker 1: of us feel like we want to tear it apart

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Speaker 1: into the tiniest little pieces, figure out what are the

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Speaker 1: rules of those little pieces, how do they interact? And

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Speaker 1: then how do you zoom back out to get the

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Speaker 1: picture of the universe that we're familiar with. And so

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Speaker 1: often in quantum mechanics we are thinking about little particles,

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Speaker 1: tiny little quantum objects, and what are the rules for

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Speaker 1: those things? Do they fly through space the way baseball

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Speaker 1: does or do they appear just in snapshots? How do

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Speaker 1: they communicate information back and forth? And how does that

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Speaker 1: change how we can communicate up here at the big,

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Speaker 1: slow human scale.

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Speaker 5: That's right, because if quantum mechanics does lead you to

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Speaker 5: some weird things that we didn't think about before. It

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Speaker 5: might change the way that we can maybe make devices

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Speaker 5: or allow us to communicate between different points on Earth.

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Speaker 1: Exactly. If the rules of quantum mechanics really are strange,

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Speaker 1: alien to our intuition, then maybe we can make quantum

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Speaker 1: mechanics do things at our scale that are very weird

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Speaker 1: that we once thought might be impossible.

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Speaker 5: Coming to the Apple Store soon, alien iPhones? Is that

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Speaker 5: what you're saying.

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Speaker 1: Excuse my long chuckle there. That was pretty funny.

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Speaker 5: Oh well, I'm sorry, man, We're going to get a

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Speaker 5: lot of complaints. Stop laughing, Daniel.

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Speaker 1: Thing at the chuckle time is just increasing. The first

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Speaker 1: rule of chuckle time is don't talk about chuckle time.

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Speaker 1: It just makes more chuckle time.

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Speaker 5: That's right, But they're usually talking about the joke kills

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Speaker 5: the joke.

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Speaker 1: We've collapsed it again, and.

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Speaker 5: So quantum mechanics may open some interesting possibilities for future

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Speaker 5: technologies and so. On the podcast today, we'll be tackling

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Speaker 5: the question can you send messages without particles? Is that

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Speaker 5: like sending emails without replies?

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Speaker 1: That happens all the time. Actually, but this has to

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Speaker 1: do more with how information propagates in a quantum universe.

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Speaker 1: We like to think about everything happening in terms of

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Speaker 1: the microscopic particles, and usually that picture involves local interactions,

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Speaker 1: meaning like one particle pushes against another particle, which pushes

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Speaker 1: against another. I think about how electricity flows. You can

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Speaker 1: think about just flowing down the wire, but if you

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Speaker 1: zoom into the particles, it's one electron jumping from spot

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Speaker 1: to spot and pushing other electrons. You can build up

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Speaker 1: this idea of electricity from the little microscopic particles and

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Speaker 1: how they touch each other. Usually there's this crucial bit

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Speaker 1: where they need to be near each other, where everything

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Speaker 1: has to be local.

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Speaker 6: Mmm.

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Speaker 5: Is that kind of like how my wife communicates a

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Speaker 5: lot to me just by giving me certain looks.

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Speaker 1: I think that's actually telepathic, man, I think that might break.

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Speaker 5: The laws of physics. Usually they're not good messages. I

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Speaker 5: get the looks.

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Speaker 1: I don't know. We should be doing marriage therapy on

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Speaker 1: the podcast. We already have too many chuckles.

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Speaker 5: Well, yeah, because you know, no marriage needs more chuckles.

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Speaker 1: Every marriage needs more chuckles. Man, humor is the best therapy.

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Speaker 5: The pens and whatckling at.

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Speaker 1: You got to take your wife seriously, that's for sure.

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Speaker 5: But yeah, usually communication involves some sort of interaction between particles, right,

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Speaker 5: Even if you're just giving somebody a look to communicate

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Speaker 5: something to them, you're exchanging photons.

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Speaker 1: Right, That's right. Our picture of how we communicate involves

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Speaker 1: sending particles or waves through fields, which you can also

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Speaker 1: think of as particles. But everything involves somehow a field

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Speaker 1: or sending a particle using that to communicate information.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, because I guess you know, in the universe we

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Speaker 5: have a certain speed of light, right, a speed of

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Speaker 5: information like you can't somehow, it seems, move things from

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Speaker 5: one place to another without going faster than the speed

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Speaker 5: of light.

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Speaker 1: That's right. It's pretty hard coded into special relativity that

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Speaker 1: no information can move faster than the speed of light,

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Speaker 1: and even quantum mechanics, which does really weird things, doesn't

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Speaker 1: violate that rule, although sometimes it seems like it might.

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Speaker 7: Hmm.

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Speaker 5: And so I guess the question here is, can you

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Speaker 5: somehow communicate, send messages interact between two places in the

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Speaker 5: universe without actually exchanging a particle or a wiggle in

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Speaker 5: some kind of particle field?

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Speaker 1: Exactly? Could you somehow send a message to your body

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Speaker 1: on Alpha Centauri without having to shoot him an electron

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Speaker 1: or a beam of photons or some other kind of

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Speaker 1: particle or wave based information.

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Speaker 5: Sounds like we're asking does magic exist?

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Speaker 1: Quantum mechanics feels like magic sometimes, you know, it does

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Speaker 1: things that we think are impossible. You know, an electron

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Speaker 1: can be here and then it can be there without

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Speaker 1: going in between, even if sometimes the spot in between

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Speaker 1: is impossible for the electron to be in. You can

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Speaker 1: have an electron appear on one side and then the

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Speaker 1: other side of an infinite barrier. It's crazy. That seems

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Speaker 1: like magic, and yet we see it happen in our universe.

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Speaker 2: Hmmm.

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Speaker 5: Would you describe it as magic though, or is it

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Speaker 5: maybe like scientific magic because you can maybe you know,

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Speaker 5: statistically predict what's going to happen.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's only magic until we explain it. Then it's

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Speaker 1: science again, then it's non magical. Science has been ruining

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Speaker 1: the magic of the universe for hundreds of years.

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Speaker 5: Well, as usually, we were wondering how many people had

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Speaker 5: thought about this question or think it's possible to maybe

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Speaker 5: send messages without using particle or particle fields.

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Speaker 1: So thank you very much to our cadre of volunteers

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Speaker 1: who answer these questions without any preparation, to give us

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Speaker 1: a sense for what people are thinking about and to

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Speaker 1: give you a sense what everyone else out there is thinking.

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Speaker 1: If you'd like to participate for future episodes of the podcast,

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Speaker 1: especially if you've never done so before and you're a

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Speaker 1: long time listener, please do reach out. Our email address

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Speaker 1: is Questions at Danielandjorge dot com.

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Speaker 5: So think about it for a second. Do you think

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Speaker 5: it's possible in this universe to send the message without

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Speaker 5: using particles? Here's what people had to say.

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Speaker 1: I think, no, you can't.

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Speaker 8: Well, oh no, no no, because of like quantum computers

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Speaker 8: and quantum entanglement. So theoretically, if we have two quantumly

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Speaker 8: entangled particles, we could send information and thus send a

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Speaker 8: message between those two particles without sending particles from one

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Speaker 8: location to another.

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Speaker 9: When I'm thinking about these questions, actually I'm thinking about

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Speaker 9: quantum entanglement. How you can send information from one point

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Speaker 9: to another faster than the speed of light. Scientists hope

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Speaker 9: this will be it like quantum entanglement. But I don't

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Speaker 9: know too many information right now. I don't think no,

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Speaker 9: I don't think that's possible. I think maybe the closest

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Speaker 9: thing to sending information without particles that we currently looking

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Speaker 9: at is gravitational waves. But then, yeah, how is that possible.

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Speaker 9: I think that that's just a shift in gravitons, So no,

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Speaker 9: I don't think so.

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Speaker 10: I think the only way to send a message without

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Speaker 10: sending any protocoles might be through quantum entanglement, but I'm

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Speaker 10: not even sure if that counts, since I'm pretty sure

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Speaker 10: we can't affect the state of the entangled particles. We

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Speaker 10: can just observe them, So I'm not sure we could

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Speaker 10: actually pass a message through that.

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Speaker 11: That depends on what you mean by particles. If you

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Speaker 11: mean fermions, then yes, you can send a message without

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Speaker 11: us and particles, because photons can carry information. But if

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Speaker 11: you mean any particle if you include photons, then you

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Speaker 11: can't because I think you need some entity like a

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Speaker 11: photon that carries in to transfer information.

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Speaker 12: Well, everything in the universe is obviously made of particles,

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Speaker 12: so I'm not really sure how you would be able

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Speaker 12: to send any message without them. But I'm also thinking

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Speaker 12: maybe you could send a message with a lack of particles.

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Speaker 12: So say someone's on the moon and you make a

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Speaker 12: really big shadow with your hand in a really powerful light,

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Speaker 12: and that person on the moon knows that when the

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Speaker 12: shadow passes over them, that means X or Y, And

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Speaker 12: I guess technically that would be sending a message with

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Speaker 12: a lack of particles, if that makes any sense. But

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Speaker 12: otherwise I don't see any other way.

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Speaker 5: All right, not a lot of optimism. Most people are like, well.

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Speaker 1: A few mentions of quantum entanglement. Yeah.

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Speaker 5: We have a pretty education and listener crowd on physics.

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Speaker 5: A few people said quantum entanglement.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, And quantum entangling is sort of the right direction

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Speaker 1: to think about, because that's the non local part of

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Speaker 1: quantum mechanics, the fact that things can happen in a

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Speaker 1: correlated way across space even if things are caused separated.

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Speaker 1: So that's definitely the right direction to be thinking about, right.

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Speaker 5: And somebody try to make a distinction between like different

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Speaker 5: kinds of particles, right, because there are some matter particles

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Speaker 5: like the stuff we're made out of, and then there

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Speaker 5: are other particles, which you know are more intangible.

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Speaker 1: Exactly in the end, we can think about all of

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Speaker 1: those as particles, or you can think about all of

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Speaker 1: them as fields in theoretical particle physics. It's sort of

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Speaker 1: this argument about whether fields or particles are the most

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Speaker 1: basic thing in the universe, But fundamentally we're all talking

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Speaker 1: about the same kind of stuff.

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Speaker 5: Like can you send a message without a field at all?

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Speaker 5: Or disturbing any field?

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Speaker 1: Well, you know, some people think that fields don't even exist,

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Speaker 1: the fields are just like a mathematical construct in our minds,

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Speaker 1: that particles are the only real thing because you don't

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Speaker 1: ever see fields, right, You can't interact with a field

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Speaker 1: except for seeing its effect on a particle. So some

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Speaker 1: people don't even think fields are real, that everything is

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Speaker 1: just particles.

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Speaker 5: But then those people are just imaginary too.

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Speaker 1: So there's even a guy who developed a version of

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Speaker 1: physics without fields and even without numbers. What, ironically his

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Speaker 1: last name was Fields.

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Speaker 5: Ironic, I say, ironically his name was Whitson no Artchree.

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Speaker 1: Fields is a philosopher of physics, and he wrote a

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Speaker 1: book called Science Without Numbers, in which he argues that

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Speaker 1: fields are just a made up thing and you don't

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Speaker 1: need them at all. Of course, he thinks he's real

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Speaker 1: even though he's a field.

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Speaker 5: And he just wanted to be the only field in the.

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Speaker 1: Universe the field field.

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Speaker 5: But yes, this is an interesting question. Can you communicate

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Speaker 5: without particles? And so let's dig into it, Daniel. Let's

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Speaker 5: start with, first of all, messaging with particles, how does

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Speaker 5: that work? How do we usually send information?

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Speaker 1: So almost all the information that we transmit uses either

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Speaker 1: particles or waves, and really those two are equivalent. You

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Speaker 1: can think of every particle as a wave in some

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Speaker 1: quantum field, or if you like, you can think of

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Speaker 1: quantum fields as just like an infinite sum of possible particles.

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Speaker 1: It's all really fundamentally equivalent. You know, when you send

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Speaker 1: an email, for example, what are you doing. You're sending

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Speaker 1: a message along some wires, and those messages are wiggles

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Speaker 1: in those little fields. If you send a beam of

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Speaker 1: light at some time right your friend across the street

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Speaker 1: has an open window and you're turning your flashlight on

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Speaker 1: and off, then you are sending beams of photons, which

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Speaker 1: you can think of either as ripples in the electromagnetic

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Speaker 1: field of the universe or little packets, little particles that

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Speaker 1: are flying through space. Either way, you're transmitting that information

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Speaker 1: through particles and fields.

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Speaker 5: Right, even when you talk on your cell phone out there,

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Speaker 5: you're using light as well, right, Like your cell phone

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Speaker 5: is transmitting light at a really high frequency that you

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Speaker 5: can't see, but it's light, right, And then the cell

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Speaker 5: phone antenna and towers out there are also communicating with

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Speaker 5: your cell phone through light exactly.

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Speaker 1: And you even have transformation of information there because the

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Speaker 1: neural pulses go through your mind and those are electrical pulses,

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Speaker 1: and then your mouth transforms them into sound waves, which

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Speaker 1: is just shaking of the air. Then the microphone in

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Speaker 1: your cell phone translates them back into a different kind

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Speaker 1: of electrical pulses, which then get emitted by your phone

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Speaker 1: as electromagnetic pulses, because that's just another kind of photon,

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Speaker 1: one with very long frequency. And in all of those

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Speaker 1: steps we have a microphysical picture of what's going on.

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Speaker 1: Atoms pushing against other atoms, or photons flying through the

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Speaker 1: electromagnetic fields that fill the whole universe. It's always local.

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Speaker 1: It's always like one thing pushing another thing. It's like

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Speaker 1: a Rube Goldberg machine, right, Everything is coming into sort

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Speaker 1: of effective contact with something else.

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Speaker 5: Right, And even your voice uses the electromagnetic radiation and forces, right,

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Speaker 5: like when the air particles are pushing against each other,

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Speaker 5: they're pushing against each other using the electromagnetic force, which

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Speaker 5: means they're also exchanging photons.

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Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, that's exactly right. The reason that air particles

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Speaker 1: don't pass through each other, they can't occupy the same space,

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Speaker 1: is primarily because their electrons bump against each other. They

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Speaker 1: resist and repel. And you're right. That's done either through

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Speaker 1: electromagnetic fields or virtual photons, depending on the picture that

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Speaker 1: you prefer. But all that stuff requires some sort of

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Speaker 1: passage of wiggles in fields or particles.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 5: Even your voice is light pure like kind of right.

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Speaker 1: Even when I'm talking about heavy topics.

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Speaker 5: Or illuminating topics as well, or chuckling too, the chuckles

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Speaker 5: are made of pure light as well, Daniel.

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Speaker 1: And light is really one of our primary ways to

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Speaker 1: interact in the universe. When stars send us light from

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Speaker 1: across vast distances of space, those are also photons. It's

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Speaker 1: created a particle which is shot out from the surface

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Speaker 1: of that sun and then flown through many megaparsecs before

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Speaker 1: it hits your eyeball. That information that the star exists

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Speaker 1: and what its temperature is and where it is comes

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Speaker 1: along with the photon.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, and that's not the only particle we get information

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Speaker 5: from from the universe. Right, we also get lots of

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Speaker 5: other particles coming at us and telling us things about

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Speaker 5: the universe.

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Now we have multi messenger astronomy, which means that we

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Speaker 1: can see things out there in the universe, not just

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Speaker 1: using photons. So, for example, we can see other particles.

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Speaker 1: Protons hit the atmosphere at very high speed. Some of

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Speaker 1: them are generated by the Sun, some of them come

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Speaker 1: from outside the Solar system. These things we call cosmic

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Speaker 1: rays can carry a lot of information about what's going

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Speaker 1: on out there in the galaxy. So that's definitely not

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Speaker 1: a photon.

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Speaker 13: Right.

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Speaker 1: A proton is a matter particle. It's made out of quarks,

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Speaker 1: which each are ripples in the quark fields that fill

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Speaker 1: the universe. But just like a photon is a ripple

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Speaker 1: in the electromagnetic field, these quarks are ripples in the

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Speaker 1: quark fields and they carry information exactly the same way

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Speaker 1: that a photon does.

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Speaker 2: Right.

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Speaker 5: But then there are gravitational waves though, right, those are

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Speaker 5: sort of information we're getting about the universe, something communicating

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Speaker 5: something to us. But do we know if there are particles?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a great question, and there's a lot of

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Speaker 1: confusion about gravitational waves versus gravitons. So gravitational waves happen

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Speaker 1: anytime anything in the universe with mass accelerates, like if

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Speaker 1: two black holes fall into each other, the acceleration as

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Speaker 1: they fall in they're circling around each other generates gravitational waves,

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Speaker 1: really big gravitational waves that we can detect. And this

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Speaker 1: is a prediction of general relativity, which is a non

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Speaker 1: quantum theory. It's a classical theory. It says that space

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Speaker 1: and time are continuous and everything has a smooth path,

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Speaker 1: really in conflict with our quantum view of the universe,

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Speaker 1: but we see it. We see these things happening. We

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Speaker 1: see these ripples in space and time. These are gravitational waves,

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Speaker 1: and they're classical objects. But you know, there are waves

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Speaker 1: in a field and they carry information and move at

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Speaker 1: the speed of light, which is kind of awesome. We

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Speaker 1: don't know if they're made of gravitons. It might be

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Speaker 1: that gravity is in the end a quantum field theory

443
00:21:26,400 --> 00:21:28,800
Speaker 1: like the other forces, and you can describe it in

444
00:21:28,880 --> 00:21:32,280
Speaker 1: terms of tiny little packets. But those packets, if they exist,

445
00:21:32,320 --> 00:21:34,800
Speaker 1: they're too small for us to see. We're just barely

446
00:21:34,840 --> 00:21:38,880
Speaker 1: able to even see gravitational waves, and one gravitational wave

447
00:21:38,960 --> 00:21:42,320
Speaker 1: might be made out of an enormous number of tiny gravitons,

448
00:21:42,640 --> 00:21:45,119
Speaker 1: so small that we can't resolve them the way like

449
00:21:45,160 --> 00:21:47,440
Speaker 1: a wave in the ocean is made of lots of droplets,

450
00:21:47,480 --> 00:21:49,280
Speaker 1: but we can't separate them necessarily.

451
00:21:50,400 --> 00:21:54,160
Speaker 5: So then if gravitational waves are not made out of particles,

452
00:21:54,200 --> 00:21:56,400
Speaker 5: and we've answered the question of the episode, I could

453
00:21:56,520 --> 00:21:59,400
Speaker 5: send the message using gravitational waves without particles.

454
00:21:59,520 --> 00:22:02,639
Speaker 1: Yeah, I suppose, so you could send information without particles

455
00:22:02,880 --> 00:22:05,760
Speaker 1: if gravity is not a quantum theory, but you'd still

456
00:22:05,800 --> 00:22:08,800
Speaker 1: be sending information via waves. And in the end, particles

457
00:22:08,800 --> 00:22:11,800
Speaker 1: and waves, really, what's the difference. They're just two attempts

458
00:22:11,880 --> 00:22:15,320
Speaker 1: by the human mind to describe something about the universe, which,

459
00:22:15,359 --> 00:22:18,119
Speaker 1: in the end is unfamiliar. You know. Physics is the

460
00:22:18,200 --> 00:22:21,200
Speaker 1: effort to describe the unfamiliar in terms of the familiar.

461
00:22:21,240 --> 00:22:23,359
Speaker 1: And the reason we have an argument about whether to

462
00:22:23,400 --> 00:22:26,320
Speaker 1: describe these things in terms of particles or fields or

463
00:22:26,359 --> 00:22:29,560
Speaker 1: waves is because none of those are really the right description.

464
00:22:29,640 --> 00:22:31,760
Speaker 1: They're just sort of like our attempt to capture them

465
00:22:31,760 --> 00:22:34,320
Speaker 1: in terms of something we know, like when you drink

466
00:22:34,320 --> 00:22:36,480
Speaker 1: a really tasty glass of wine, and you're like, hmm,

467
00:22:36,920 --> 00:22:39,479
Speaker 1: it's like vanilla and notes of oak or whatever. Now

468
00:22:39,480 --> 00:22:41,520
Speaker 1: those aren't really there, and the wine, they're just your

469
00:22:41,560 --> 00:22:43,680
Speaker 1: efforts to describe them in terms of a language.

470
00:22:43,840 --> 00:22:46,240
Speaker 5: You know, it sounds like you're trying to get out

471
00:22:46,240 --> 00:22:49,520
Speaker 5: of something out there. But I think what you're saying

472
00:22:49,560 --> 00:22:52,040
Speaker 5: is that, you know, it's kind of hard to imagine

473
00:22:52,119 --> 00:22:56,160
Speaker 5: communicating something across a distance in this universe without creating

474
00:22:56,240 --> 00:22:59,240
Speaker 5: some sort of ripple that you know, moves through space.

475
00:22:59,440 --> 00:23:01,639
Speaker 5: I think that's what you're saying. And gravitational waves are

476
00:23:01,720 --> 00:23:04,800
Speaker 5: technically ripples through some sort of medium or some sort

477
00:23:04,840 --> 00:23:07,720
Speaker 5: of field in the universe. And so the question then

478
00:23:07,840 --> 00:23:11,040
Speaker 5: maybe is like, can you actually communicate without causing any

479
00:23:11,119 --> 00:23:12,120
Speaker 5: ripples in the universe.

480
00:23:12,280 --> 00:23:15,760
Speaker 1: Yeah. We think about information as propagating through the universe.

481
00:23:15,800 --> 00:23:18,520
Speaker 1: We think of everything as local. Something passes a note

482
00:23:18,520 --> 00:23:20,159
Speaker 1: to the next thing, which passes a note to the

483
00:23:20,200 --> 00:23:23,560
Speaker 1: next thing. You can't just have information appear somewhere far away.

484
00:23:23,680 --> 00:23:26,720
Speaker 1: We think we have this intuition that the universe seems

485
00:23:26,760 --> 00:23:30,159
Speaker 1: to be local, that information moves and propagates, so that

486
00:23:30,240 --> 00:23:32,399
Speaker 1: to send information you've got to create some sort of

487
00:23:32,440 --> 00:23:34,719
Speaker 1: ripple in a field, and think about really what a

488
00:23:34,760 --> 00:23:37,040
Speaker 1: wave is like. If you think about a guitar string

489
00:23:37,080 --> 00:23:39,440
Speaker 1: with a wave on it, why does it wave anyway?

490
00:23:39,840 --> 00:23:41,919
Speaker 1: It waves because one bit of the string is then

491
00:23:41,960 --> 00:23:44,280
Speaker 1: wiggling the next bit, which is wiggling the next bit,

492
00:23:44,320 --> 00:23:47,320
Speaker 1: which is wiggling the next bit. Information about the wave

493
00:23:47,400 --> 00:23:49,959
Speaker 1: is flowing down the string the same way like you're

494
00:23:50,040 --> 00:23:52,399
Speaker 1: driving down the freeway. Why is everybody in front of

495
00:23:52,440 --> 00:23:54,280
Speaker 1: you breaking because the person in front of them is

496
00:23:54,280 --> 00:23:57,520
Speaker 1: breaking because their information is local. They just respond to

497
00:23:57,560 --> 00:23:59,960
Speaker 1: the person in front of them. So the whole idea

498
00:24:00,200 --> 00:24:02,600
Speaker 1: of a wave is sort of comes out of information

499
00:24:02,800 --> 00:24:04,840
Speaker 1: being local and propagating locally.

500
00:24:05,320 --> 00:24:07,720
Speaker 5: Right, all right, Well, it seems kind of impossible to

501
00:24:07,800 --> 00:24:12,080
Speaker 5: maybe communicate or send information across the universe without causing

502
00:24:12,160 --> 00:24:14,439
Speaker 5: any kind of a ripple. But let's see if that

503
00:24:14,640 --> 00:24:17,359
Speaker 5: is actually true. So let's get into how we might

504
00:24:17,400 --> 00:24:19,239
Speaker 5: be able to do that. But first, let's take a

505
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506
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Speaker 5: All Right, we're trying to send I guess qmail messages

556
00:27:06,119 --> 00:27:08,679
Speaker 5: without causing a ripple in the universe. What are you

557
00:27:08,720 --> 00:27:10,719
Speaker 5: trying to do here? Done? You're trying to send messages

558
00:27:10,760 --> 00:27:11,879
Speaker 5: without anybody finding out.

559
00:27:12,040 --> 00:27:13,639
Speaker 1: I think it'd be pretty awesome to be able to

560
00:27:13,640 --> 00:27:17,160
Speaker 1: send information without creating any ripples or sending any particles.

561
00:27:17,280 --> 00:27:19,240
Speaker 1: It's just to be something new that we didn't think

562
00:27:19,400 --> 00:27:22,679
Speaker 1: was possible before. It might open up new technologies that

563
00:27:22,760 --> 00:27:25,520
Speaker 1: we can't even imagine today, because it would like break

564
00:27:25,520 --> 00:27:28,960
Speaker 1: down one of our basic intuitions about how the universe works.

565
00:27:29,280 --> 00:27:31,679
Speaker 1: You know, we're pretty sure that we're pretty wrong about

566
00:27:31,720 --> 00:27:34,600
Speaker 1: some of these assumptions about the universe. Things we've assumed

567
00:27:34,600 --> 00:27:37,080
Speaker 1: for a long long time. One of them probably has

568
00:27:37,160 --> 00:27:39,160
Speaker 1: to go. We just don't really know which yet.

569
00:27:39,440 --> 00:27:41,679
Speaker 5: Yeah, I'm sure there are many politicians who would love

570
00:27:41,720 --> 00:27:45,919
Speaker 5: to have the technology to send text messages without leaving

571
00:27:45,920 --> 00:27:48,199
Speaker 5: a trace or a ripple through anything.

572
00:27:48,480 --> 00:27:50,760
Speaker 1: Wow, you went straight for the cynical applications.

573
00:27:50,840 --> 00:27:53,440
Speaker 5: H well, those usually come first.

574
00:27:53,480 --> 00:27:56,440
Speaker 1: We're thinking about how to pitch this to Facebook next, right, Oh.

575
00:27:56,440 --> 00:27:58,480
Speaker 5: I'm sure they're on it. They don't waste time chuggling

576
00:27:58,600 --> 00:28:00,800
Speaker 5: about these things. But I think we were saying earlier

577
00:28:00,880 --> 00:28:04,400
Speaker 5: how physicists sort of look at the universe and how

578
00:28:04,400 --> 00:28:07,480
Speaker 5: things interact in it as being local or non local.

579
00:28:07,800 --> 00:28:10,040
Speaker 5: So local just kind of means that you can't affect

580
00:28:10,080 --> 00:28:12,639
Speaker 5: something that's really far away from you, kind of right, Like,

581
00:28:13,040 --> 00:28:15,000
Speaker 5: the universe seems to have a sort of a short

582
00:28:15,080 --> 00:28:16,879
Speaker 5: range of things. If I want to communicate something to you,

583
00:28:16,960 --> 00:28:19,600
Speaker 5: I have to do it through a series of intermediary

584
00:28:20,000 --> 00:28:21,639
Speaker 5: particles or things like that, right.

585
00:28:21,560 --> 00:28:24,399
Speaker 1: Or fields exactly, have your people talk to my people.

586
00:28:24,600 --> 00:28:26,760
Speaker 1: That's how these things get done. On the other hand,

587
00:28:26,800 --> 00:28:30,359
Speaker 1: we also know that quantum mechanics has some very strange,

588
00:28:30,600 --> 00:28:33,919
Speaker 1: very non local features to it. It seems to be

589
00:28:33,920 --> 00:28:37,760
Speaker 1: able to do things across space time that sounds sort

590
00:28:37,760 --> 00:28:38,480
Speaker 1: of impossible.

591
00:28:38,800 --> 00:28:40,840
Speaker 5: Yeah, and so that's maybe the question we're asking here

592
00:28:40,840 --> 00:28:43,200
Speaker 5: today is can we exploit can we use some of

593
00:28:43,200 --> 00:28:47,440
Speaker 5: this weird quantum mechanical magic to maybe send messages without

594
00:28:48,240 --> 00:28:50,280
Speaker 5: causing a ripple in any of the quantum fields.

595
00:28:50,360 --> 00:28:53,400
Speaker 1: And we heard several of our listeners suggest maybe using

596
00:28:53,520 --> 00:28:57,360
Speaker 1: quantum entanglement, which is a great idea because quantum entanglement

597
00:28:57,560 --> 00:29:01,680
Speaker 1: really highlights the non local nature of quantum mechanics. So

598
00:29:01,800 --> 00:29:04,280
Speaker 1: very briefly, the idea of entanglement is, you have two

599
00:29:04,360 --> 00:29:08,080
Speaker 1: particles that are somehow connected. You know something about them,

600
00:29:08,120 --> 00:29:09,920
Speaker 1: like if one is spin up, the other one has

601
00:29:09,960 --> 00:29:12,600
Speaker 1: to be spinned down because of the way they were created.

602
00:29:12,720 --> 00:29:14,520
Speaker 1: You know, or imagine you have two balls and you

603
00:29:14,600 --> 00:29:16,080
Speaker 1: know that only one of them can be red and

604
00:29:16,120 --> 00:29:17,880
Speaker 1: the other one has to be blue, But maybe you

605
00:29:17,880 --> 00:29:20,560
Speaker 1: don't know which is which. So quantum entanglement says, you

606
00:29:20,560 --> 00:29:23,280
Speaker 1: have these two particles, you know something about them overall

607
00:29:23,640 --> 00:29:26,200
Speaker 1: that makes them have like opposite states or different colors

608
00:29:26,320 --> 00:29:28,200
Speaker 1: or something, but you don't know which is which. They

609
00:29:28,240 --> 00:29:30,280
Speaker 1: just have to be in the opposite states, and quantum

610
00:29:30,280 --> 00:29:33,320
Speaker 1: mechanics says that they can stay uncertain. That you can

611
00:29:33,360 --> 00:29:35,440
Speaker 1: have one particle have a possibility of being up and

612
00:29:35,480 --> 00:29:38,360
Speaker 1: the possibility of being down, and the other particle also

613
00:29:38,440 --> 00:29:42,040
Speaker 1: maintain both of those possibilities. Now, take these two particles

614
00:29:42,040 --> 00:29:45,280
Speaker 1: and pull them really far apart a kilometer, ten kilometers,

615
00:29:45,360 --> 00:29:49,000
Speaker 1: a thousand kilometers whatever, they can maintain those possibilities. Now,

616
00:29:49,040 --> 00:29:51,120
Speaker 1: if you look at the first particle and you say, oh,

617
00:29:51,120 --> 00:29:53,520
Speaker 1: it's up, that means that the other particle, even though

618
00:29:53,520 --> 00:29:56,120
Speaker 1: it's super duper far away and there's no time for

619
00:29:56,240 --> 00:29:59,000
Speaker 1: information to get to it, all of a sudden, goes

620
00:29:59,000 --> 00:30:02,640
Speaker 1: from having both possibilities to having to be down. Because

621
00:30:02,680 --> 00:30:04,560
Speaker 1: the first one was up, the second one has to

622
00:30:04,600 --> 00:30:07,120
Speaker 1: be down. You know that because of how they were created.

623
00:30:07,160 --> 00:30:10,560
Speaker 1: So quantum entanglement definitely is a weird, non local part

624
00:30:10,640 --> 00:30:11,720
Speaker 1: of quantum mechanics.

625
00:30:11,880 --> 00:30:15,120
Speaker 5: I guess that's the confusing part about this whole entanglement thing, right.

626
00:30:15,200 --> 00:30:17,080
Speaker 5: It's that like if you would think that if I

627
00:30:17,120 --> 00:30:19,720
Speaker 5: had two balls, one red and one blue, and I

628
00:30:19,760 --> 00:30:21,400
Speaker 5: put them in a bag and I mix them up,

629
00:30:21,440 --> 00:30:23,400
Speaker 5: then I take one out without looking at it, and

630
00:30:23,440 --> 00:30:26,480
Speaker 5: I drive it over to the other side of the country. Obviously,

631
00:30:26,520 --> 00:30:28,600
Speaker 5: if I see that it's red, then the one that

632
00:30:28,640 --> 00:30:30,840
Speaker 5: stayed behind is going to be blue. Or if I

633
00:30:30,840 --> 00:30:32,600
Speaker 5: look to the one over there and it's blue, then

634
00:30:32,600 --> 00:30:34,640
Speaker 5: this one has to be red. That sort of seems obvious.

635
00:30:34,680 --> 00:30:37,520
Speaker 5: But I guess the tricky thing about quantum mechanics is

636
00:30:37,560 --> 00:30:41,240
Speaker 5: that they're not balllls, right, they're quantum mechanical objects. Like

637
00:30:41,280 --> 00:30:43,280
Speaker 5: when you separate the two balls, it's not like one

638
00:30:43,280 --> 00:30:45,400
Speaker 5: of them is red and you just don't see it.

639
00:30:45,400 --> 00:30:48,600
Speaker 5: It's like it's they're both both red and blue at

640
00:30:48,600 --> 00:30:52,320
Speaker 5: the same time. In quantum mechanics, they're both actually undetermined.

641
00:30:52,480 --> 00:30:55,520
Speaker 1: Right. The universe hasn't decided which one is red and

642
00:30:55,560 --> 00:30:58,000
Speaker 1: which one is blue. This is this whole beautiful series

643
00:30:58,000 --> 00:31:01,520
Speaker 1: of experiments and Bells experiments that asks the question, has

644
00:31:01,520 --> 00:31:04,640
Speaker 1: the universe actually decided in advance? Is it really determined

645
00:31:04,640 --> 00:31:06,440
Speaker 1: and we just don't know the answer, or is it

646
00:31:06,480 --> 00:31:09,400
Speaker 1: actually undetermined the whole time? And we'll have a whole

647
00:31:09,400 --> 00:31:13,120
Speaker 1: episode about Bell's experiments soon. But those experiments determine that

648
00:31:13,240 --> 00:31:16,880
Speaker 1: there's no local hidden variables, there's no information that's traveling

649
00:31:16,920 --> 00:31:20,000
Speaker 1: along with those particles that somehow determines which one is

650
00:31:20,040 --> 00:31:22,200
Speaker 1: red and which one is blue. That you have some

651
00:31:22,240 --> 00:31:25,600
Speaker 1: sort of non local effect there. Either they're communicating somehow,

652
00:31:25,920 --> 00:31:29,440
Speaker 1: or there's some sort of like global plan that affects everything.

653
00:31:29,920 --> 00:31:32,880
Speaker 5: Right, And I guess from a layperson point of view,

654
00:31:33,000 --> 00:31:35,160
Speaker 5: like it's hard to swallow, you know, Like you I

655
00:31:35,200 --> 00:31:37,960
Speaker 5: would think, like, hey, it's not that the ball is

656
00:31:38,040 --> 00:31:40,719
Speaker 5: red and blue, it's you just don't know what it is.

657
00:31:40,960 --> 00:31:43,320
Speaker 5: But inside the bag, the ball knows if it's red

658
00:31:43,360 --> 00:31:43,720
Speaker 5: or blue.

659
00:31:44,000 --> 00:31:47,400
Speaker 1: Right, that's our intuition because that's the way our world works. Right.

660
00:31:47,440 --> 00:31:49,840
Speaker 1: We think that there's a truth that everything is determined.

661
00:31:49,840 --> 00:31:52,400
Speaker 1: We just don't have all the information. But quantum mechanics

662
00:31:52,480 --> 00:31:55,280
Speaker 1: really does seem to operate differently, really does seem to

663
00:31:55,320 --> 00:31:58,040
Speaker 1: follow very different rules. That's what I was talking about earlier,

664
00:31:58,080 --> 00:32:01,520
Speaker 1: that there are these weird, strange, almost alien ideas about

665
00:32:01,520 --> 00:32:03,800
Speaker 1: how the universe works which really fly in the face

666
00:32:04,080 --> 00:32:07,200
Speaker 1: of the things that we expected to do, and maybe

667
00:32:07,280 --> 00:32:09,640
Speaker 1: that would let us build on those properties to do

668
00:32:09,800 --> 00:32:12,560
Speaker 1: crazy bonkers things we thought were impossible. You know, whenever

669
00:32:12,560 --> 00:32:14,960
Speaker 1: we talk about entanglement on the podcast, get a few

670
00:32:14,960 --> 00:32:17,680
Speaker 1: emails from folks who ask, isn't it possible to use

671
00:32:17,840 --> 00:32:21,840
Speaker 1: entanglement somehow to communicate faster than light? Because it seems

672
00:32:21,880 --> 00:32:25,320
Speaker 1: like there's this faster than light process here you're looking

673
00:32:25,400 --> 00:32:27,360
Speaker 1: at one of the particles and deciding whether it's up

674
00:32:27,440 --> 00:32:31,320
Speaker 1: or down. Somehow the other one instantaneously goes from undetermined

675
00:32:31,480 --> 00:32:34,640
Speaker 1: to determined, either up or down. So several listeners have

676
00:32:34,680 --> 00:32:37,080
Speaker 1: emailed me with the scheme trying to use this to

677
00:32:37,160 --> 00:32:41,000
Speaker 1: send information faster than light by, for example, collapsing one

678
00:32:41,040 --> 00:32:43,800
Speaker 1: particle and noticing on the other end that the particle

679
00:32:43,880 --> 00:32:47,680
Speaker 1: is collapsed, using that to send information somehow. Unfortunately, that

680
00:32:47,720 --> 00:32:51,440
Speaker 1: doesn't work because you can't tell whether your particle's wavefunction

681
00:32:51,600 --> 00:32:53,840
Speaker 1: is collapsed. You can just measure it. You can say, oh,

682
00:32:54,040 --> 00:32:56,680
Speaker 1: mind is red or blue. You can't tell whether the

683
00:32:56,680 --> 00:32:59,680
Speaker 1: other person has measured their particle or not. So as

684
00:32:59,720 --> 00:33:01,640
Speaker 1: far as we know, there's no way to use this

685
00:33:02,120 --> 00:33:06,040
Speaker 1: to send information faster than light. However, it does seem

686
00:33:06,080 --> 00:33:08,800
Speaker 1: like there is something non local going on, so maybe

687
00:33:08,800 --> 00:33:11,120
Speaker 1: we just need to be more clever about it, right.

688
00:33:11,160 --> 00:33:13,560
Speaker 5: I wonder if maybe an interesting analogy to flesh out

689
00:33:13,560 --> 00:33:16,680
Speaker 5: here is like, instead of having balls that are painted

690
00:33:16,760 --> 00:33:20,240
Speaker 5: blue and red, maybe they're like transparent balls, and they

691
00:33:20,240 --> 00:33:23,680
Speaker 5: have little led lights inside of them that turn red

692
00:33:23,880 --> 00:33:26,960
Speaker 5: or blue, And so when you put them together inside

693
00:33:27,000 --> 00:33:29,920
Speaker 5: of the bag, they somehow make the arrangement that if

694
00:33:29,960 --> 00:33:31,680
Speaker 5: one of them is going to turn blue, the other

695
00:33:31,720 --> 00:33:33,560
Speaker 5: one turns red. And if the other one turns red,

696
00:33:33,560 --> 00:33:36,320
Speaker 5: the other one's going to turn blue. They make that arrangement,

697
00:33:36,360 --> 00:33:38,640
Speaker 5: and then you take the balls and you separate them,

698
00:33:38,720 --> 00:33:40,360
Speaker 5: and you take one to the other side of the country,

699
00:33:40,400 --> 00:33:42,840
Speaker 5: and you keep one of them. Now, I think the

700
00:33:42,960 --> 00:33:45,400
Speaker 5: magic sort of happens if I look at the one

701
00:33:45,400 --> 00:33:48,800
Speaker 5: I have here and it turns blue. Somehow the one

702
00:33:48,840 --> 00:33:50,560
Speaker 5: in the other on the other side of the country

703
00:33:50,680 --> 00:33:53,719
Speaker 5: has to know to turn red. But they're separated by

704
00:33:53,720 --> 00:33:56,760
Speaker 5: a huge amount of space, and yet somehow that information

705
00:33:57,040 --> 00:34:00,840
Speaker 5: is communicated instantaneously. That's kind of the magic of it, right.

706
00:34:00,720 --> 00:34:02,400
Speaker 1: It is the magic. And one thing I think to

707
00:34:02,440 --> 00:34:06,360
Speaker 1: point out there is that the correlation is created locally.

708
00:34:06,640 --> 00:34:08,960
Speaker 1: Like you talked about them making some arrangement, they were

709
00:34:09,000 --> 00:34:10,759
Speaker 1: next to each other when they did that, right when

710
00:34:10,800 --> 00:34:12,720
Speaker 1: they said, if I'm going to be blue, you gotta

711
00:34:12,760 --> 00:34:15,560
Speaker 1: be read. That was a local conversation. That was an

712
00:34:15,600 --> 00:34:18,719
Speaker 1: agreement made with your neighbor, and then you separated the

713
00:34:18,719 --> 00:34:22,640
Speaker 1: two particles. The correlation, however, was created locally. I think

714
00:34:22,680 --> 00:34:25,000
Speaker 1: that's an important hint for like how this works in

715
00:34:25,040 --> 00:34:27,920
Speaker 1: the universe, that these correlations are always created locally.

716
00:34:28,080 --> 00:34:29,880
Speaker 5: All right, Well, what is it a clue too, like,

717
00:34:29,960 --> 00:34:32,480
Speaker 5: how can you use this to maybe communicate faster than

718
00:34:32,560 --> 00:34:34,680
Speaker 5: light or without ripplaying the universe.

719
00:34:34,719 --> 00:34:37,799
Speaker 1: The basic idea is to use these quantum probabilities to

720
00:34:37,840 --> 00:34:41,040
Speaker 1: somehow communicate. So if you can like communicate via the

721
00:34:41,120 --> 00:34:44,960
Speaker 1: quantum probabilities but not the actual waves. And so there's

722
00:34:45,000 --> 00:34:48,360
Speaker 1: this ingenious experiment where you take photons and you split

723
00:34:48,400 --> 00:34:50,080
Speaker 1: them in half. And if you look for this online,

724
00:34:50,080 --> 00:34:53,120
Speaker 1: it's part of the quantum bomb detector experiment. But you

725
00:34:53,160 --> 00:34:54,640
Speaker 1: don't need a bomb. I think that just makes it

726
00:34:54,640 --> 00:34:56,600
Speaker 1: more confusing. So we're going to simplify it a little bit.

727
00:34:56,600 --> 00:34:59,040
Speaker 1: But you have this beam of photons, and the first

728
00:34:59,040 --> 00:35:01,640
Speaker 1: thing that happens is the beam. It's a beam splitter.

729
00:35:01,880 --> 00:35:04,440
Speaker 1: So this is like a mirror that's half silvered, and

730
00:35:04,480 --> 00:35:06,520
Speaker 1: it splits part of the beam in one way and

731
00:35:06,560 --> 00:35:08,520
Speaker 1: the other part of the beam the other way. The

732
00:35:08,560 --> 00:35:10,520
Speaker 1: important thing to think about is what happens if you

733
00:35:10,520 --> 00:35:14,000
Speaker 1: shoot one photon at this beam. It has a fifty

734
00:35:14,000 --> 00:35:16,040
Speaker 1: percent chance of going one way and a fifty percent

735
00:35:16,080 --> 00:35:18,520
Speaker 1: chance of going the other way. So, because this is

736
00:35:18,520 --> 00:35:21,359
Speaker 1: a quantum mechanical object, if you're not looking at it,

737
00:35:21,360 --> 00:35:23,880
Speaker 1: it sort of does both. It has a probability to

738
00:35:23,920 --> 00:35:26,799
Speaker 1: go left and a probability to go right. Okay, so

739
00:35:26,840 --> 00:35:28,560
Speaker 1: now you have your beam and it's split into like

740
00:35:28,680 --> 00:35:31,840
Speaker 1: two probabilistic halves. Now put some mirrors in so the

741
00:35:31,880 --> 00:35:35,160
Speaker 1: beams come back together and rejoin them again with a

742
00:35:35,200 --> 00:35:38,160
Speaker 1: second beam splitter. So the second beam splitter can now

743
00:35:38,239 --> 00:35:40,960
Speaker 1: sort of undo the splitting of the beam. So you

744
00:35:40,960 --> 00:35:42,680
Speaker 1: have a beam of light which you split and then

745
00:35:42,760 --> 00:35:45,080
Speaker 1: brought back together into a single beam.

746
00:35:45,200 --> 00:35:47,480
Speaker 5: What sounds like you actually split the beam is just

747
00:35:47,520 --> 00:35:50,640
Speaker 5: that you give the photon two possibilities to go. It

748
00:35:50,680 --> 00:35:52,960
Speaker 5: can go right or it can go left right.

749
00:35:52,800 --> 00:35:56,040
Speaker 1: Exactly for an individual photon, it has possibilities to go

750
00:35:56,160 --> 00:35:57,279
Speaker 1: left or to go right.

751
00:35:57,320 --> 00:35:59,520
Speaker 5: And then later down the road you sort of bring

752
00:35:59,560 --> 00:36:02,840
Speaker 5: those two possibilities together so that there's only that one photon.

753
00:36:03,000 --> 00:36:04,799
Speaker 1: And this is like the double slit experiment. If you

754
00:36:04,800 --> 00:36:08,279
Speaker 1: don't look to see which path the photon takes, then

755
00:36:08,280 --> 00:36:10,840
Speaker 1: it has a probability to go left and a probability

756
00:36:10,880 --> 00:36:14,040
Speaker 1: to go right. And those quantum waves do both right,

757
00:36:14,120 --> 00:36:16,160
Speaker 1: and the quantum waves can do things like interfere with

758
00:36:16,239 --> 00:36:18,160
Speaker 1: each other. So now there's a crucial step when you

759
00:36:18,200 --> 00:36:21,120
Speaker 1: bring these two photons back together. You make one path

760
00:36:21,160 --> 00:36:24,400
Speaker 1: a tiny little bit longer, like a half wave length longer,

761
00:36:24,440 --> 00:36:26,480
Speaker 1: so that they'll interfere with each other, and just this

762
00:36:26,520 --> 00:36:29,120
Speaker 1: one way. So the beam goes in a certain direction,

763
00:36:29,239 --> 00:36:31,839
Speaker 1: So call that detector A. You split the beams probabilities,

764
00:36:31,840 --> 00:36:34,040
Speaker 1: you bring them back, and you interfere them in this

765
00:36:34,120 --> 00:36:36,640
Speaker 1: special way, so they they'll go in this certain direction

766
00:36:36,960 --> 00:36:39,640
Speaker 1: Detector A. So they have to interfere in just this

767
00:36:39,680 --> 00:36:42,719
Speaker 1: way to hit this detector. Okay, Now if there wasn't interference,

768
00:36:42,760 --> 00:36:45,040
Speaker 1: if you like blocked one of the beam paths, then

769
00:36:45,040 --> 00:36:46,879
Speaker 1: the light would have go on only one beam path.

770
00:36:46,880 --> 00:36:48,919
Speaker 1: They would hit the beam splitter and it would either

771
00:36:48,960 --> 00:36:51,480
Speaker 1: go left or right after that beam splitter. See if

772
00:36:51,480 --> 00:36:54,759
Speaker 1: two detectors there, like A and B. A is what

773
00:36:54,840 --> 00:36:58,080
Speaker 1: happens if you have both paths live because they interfere

774
00:36:58,080 --> 00:37:00,080
Speaker 1: in just the right way, so they always go to A.

775
00:37:00,280 --> 00:37:02,480
Speaker 1: But if one of them is blocked, then the photons

776
00:37:02,520 --> 00:37:04,439
Speaker 1: just hit the beam splitter and they can go either

777
00:37:04,520 --> 00:37:06,520
Speaker 1: left or right at the end of the path.

778
00:37:06,680 --> 00:37:08,680
Speaker 5: Okay, I think you were saying that I take a photon,

779
00:37:09,040 --> 00:37:12,200
Speaker 5: I give it two possible paths to go on, and

780
00:37:12,200 --> 00:37:15,279
Speaker 5: then I merge those paths, and so quantum mechanically, it's

781
00:37:15,320 --> 00:37:18,400
Speaker 5: doing some weird quantum mechanical things in in the middle

782
00:37:18,520 --> 00:37:20,440
Speaker 5: because it's sort of going left and right at the

783
00:37:20,440 --> 00:37:22,200
Speaker 5: same time. But then at the end you set up

784
00:37:22,239 --> 00:37:25,080
Speaker 5: two ways to detect what happens. Either the two things

785
00:37:25,120 --> 00:37:29,719
Speaker 5: merged together or one of those possibilities got blocked exactly.

786
00:37:29,960 --> 00:37:32,000
Speaker 1: And if the two things merge together, then it goes

787
00:37:32,040 --> 00:37:34,480
Speaker 1: to detector A. If one of them got blocked and

788
00:37:34,560 --> 00:37:37,200
Speaker 1: only one of the possibilities is live, then half the

789
00:37:37,280 --> 00:37:38,640
Speaker 1: time it goes to A and half the time it

790
00:37:38,680 --> 00:37:41,120
Speaker 1: goes to B. So the key thing is that it

791
00:37:41,239 --> 00:37:44,440
Speaker 1: only goes to BE when there's one path live. If

792
00:37:44,440 --> 00:37:47,480
Speaker 1: both paths are possible, it always goes to A. So

793
00:37:47,560 --> 00:37:49,760
Speaker 1: if it goes to detector B, that means that only

794
00:37:49,800 --> 00:37:50,719
Speaker 1: one path.

795
00:37:50,600 --> 00:37:53,759
Speaker 5: Was possible, Okay, And by possible you mean like I

796
00:37:53,800 --> 00:37:56,799
Speaker 5: put an obstruction in between one of the possibilities for

797
00:37:56,840 --> 00:37:57,799
Speaker 5: this photon to.

798
00:37:57,800 --> 00:38:00,480
Speaker 1: Go through exactly. So now put some device along one

799
00:38:00,520 --> 00:38:02,920
Speaker 1: of the paths that you can control, some gate that

800
00:38:03,000 --> 00:38:06,160
Speaker 1: you can close to block the possibility, right, So then

801
00:38:06,160 --> 00:38:09,000
Speaker 1: what happens, So now the photon can't go along both

802
00:38:09,080 --> 00:38:12,239
Speaker 1: paths simultaneously. It has to choose. This is just like

803
00:38:12,239 --> 00:38:14,800
Speaker 1: in the double slit experiment. When you add a detector

804
00:38:14,840 --> 00:38:17,280
Speaker 1: to one of the slits, it collapses the wave function.

805
00:38:17,360 --> 00:38:20,560
Speaker 1: It doesn't allow it to maintain this uncertainty. It's like

806
00:38:20,680 --> 00:38:22,560
Speaker 1: looking at the balls in the bags that we were

807
00:38:22,600 --> 00:38:25,200
Speaker 1: talking about earlier. So now the photon has to either

808
00:38:25,239 --> 00:38:27,279
Speaker 1: go on one path or the other. It has to

809
00:38:27,320 --> 00:38:29,759
Speaker 1: go left or right at the first beam splitter. It

810
00:38:29,800 --> 00:38:33,840
Speaker 1: can't maintain both possibilities. So either it goes into the

811
00:38:33,840 --> 00:38:36,360
Speaker 1: obstacle right, it hits your gate and it gets squashed

812
00:38:36,400 --> 00:38:38,600
Speaker 1: and you don't get any beam on the other side. Right.

813
00:38:38,800 --> 00:38:42,239
Speaker 1: That's one possibility. Another possibility is that it doesn't that

814
00:38:42,280 --> 00:38:45,440
Speaker 1: it goes along the no obstacle path, the open path,

815
00:38:45,520 --> 00:38:47,560
Speaker 1: and then when it gets to the end of the experiment,

816
00:38:47,640 --> 00:38:50,239
Speaker 1: it either goes left or right into detector A or B.

817
00:38:50,520 --> 00:38:53,520
Speaker 1: The cool thing is that if it hits detector B,

818
00:38:53,840 --> 00:38:56,719
Speaker 1: that means that only one path was alive, because the

819
00:38:56,760 --> 00:38:58,520
Speaker 1: only way it can get to detector B is if

820
00:38:58,560 --> 00:39:01,840
Speaker 1: there is no interference both paths are alive. It always

821
00:39:01,840 --> 00:39:04,440
Speaker 1: goes to detector A only one path is alive. Then

822
00:39:04,480 --> 00:39:06,439
Speaker 1: half the time it goes to either one. So that's

823
00:39:06,520 --> 00:39:08,359
Speaker 1: kind of cool because it means that if it hits

824
00:39:08,360 --> 00:39:11,480
Speaker 1: Detector B, it went along the path that didn't have

825
00:39:11,560 --> 00:39:12,279
Speaker 1: the obstacle.

826
00:39:12,360 --> 00:39:14,040
Speaker 5: Okay, you kind of lost me a little bit a

827
00:39:14,200 --> 00:39:17,479
Speaker 5: while back. So I have this setup, right, and there's

828
00:39:17,760 --> 00:39:20,160
Speaker 5: both an obstacle and a device that I put on

829
00:39:20,160 --> 00:39:22,719
Speaker 5: on one of the paths, or there's only one obstacle,

830
00:39:22,760 --> 00:39:23,920
Speaker 5: and I control that obstacle.

831
00:39:24,000 --> 00:39:25,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, you can control. It's like a gate that you

832
00:39:25,600 --> 00:39:27,840
Speaker 1: can close or open. You can create an obstacle or

833
00:39:27,840 --> 00:39:28,560
Speaker 1: you can remove it.

834
00:39:28,680 --> 00:39:32,319
Speaker 5: Okay, if I'm blocking it, then the photon can only

835
00:39:32,360 --> 00:39:36,440
Speaker 5: go through, for example, the left path, and if I

836
00:39:36,520 --> 00:39:38,960
Speaker 5: open it, then it goes through both and I should

837
00:39:38,960 --> 00:39:40,600
Speaker 5: get a different signal at the end.

838
00:39:40,719 --> 00:39:43,200
Speaker 1: Exactly. If you open it, then you have both possibilities

839
00:39:43,200 --> 00:39:45,440
Speaker 1: like we talked about earlier, and they interfere in this

840
00:39:45,480 --> 00:39:47,680
Speaker 1: way so that the beam always goes to Detector A.

841
00:39:47,960 --> 00:39:50,640
Speaker 5: But if I activate my obstacle and I block one side,

842
00:39:50,680 --> 00:39:53,480
Speaker 5: then it can either go to A or B.

843
00:39:53,800 --> 00:39:56,719
Speaker 1: Right exactly, because it has to choose the left path

844
00:39:56,840 --> 00:39:59,919
Speaker 1: or the right path. Now, right, both possibilities are not alive,

845
00:40:00,239 --> 00:40:02,000
Speaker 1: and so it Ethan needs to decide am I hitting

846
00:40:02,040 --> 00:40:04,799
Speaker 1: the obstacle, or am I taking the other path? Just

847
00:40:04,840 --> 00:40:07,319
Speaker 1: like in the double slit experiment, it can maintain the

848
00:40:07,360 --> 00:40:09,920
Speaker 1: possibility of coming out of either slit as long as

849
00:40:10,000 --> 00:40:12,600
Speaker 1: you don't look. In this experiment, now we're looking. By

850
00:40:12,640 --> 00:40:15,879
Speaker 1: adding an obstacle, we're insisting that we know which path

851
00:40:15,920 --> 00:40:19,600
Speaker 1: the photon went on. So it destroys this quantum mechanical possibility.

852
00:40:19,840 --> 00:40:22,279
Speaker 5: Right, I'm blocking the right path, and so now the

853
00:40:22,280 --> 00:40:25,440
Speaker 5: photon has to go through the left path if I

854
00:40:25,520 --> 00:40:26,560
Speaker 5: receive it at the end.

855
00:40:26,560 --> 00:40:28,880
Speaker 1: Exactly, So half the time you don't get any photon

856
00:40:28,920 --> 00:40:31,200
Speaker 1: out because it hits the obstacle. The other half the

857
00:40:31,200 --> 00:40:33,239
Speaker 1: time it does decide to go on the left path,

858
00:40:33,640 --> 00:40:35,920
Speaker 1: and then it's the only beam that arrives at the

859
00:40:35,920 --> 00:40:38,560
Speaker 1: second beam splitter, and so it goes fifty percent left

860
00:40:38,560 --> 00:40:40,880
Speaker 1: and fifty percent right because there's nothing else to interfere

861
00:40:40,880 --> 00:40:41,120
Speaker 1: with it.

862
00:40:41,160 --> 00:40:44,359
Speaker 5: Okay, So I set up this complicated experiment, and then

863
00:40:44,560 --> 00:40:46,759
Speaker 5: what do I see? And what does that tell us

864
00:40:46,760 --> 00:40:48,520
Speaker 5: about communicating without rippling?

865
00:40:48,600 --> 00:40:50,919
Speaker 1: So if the obstacle is not there, you always see

866
00:40:50,960 --> 00:40:54,439
Speaker 1: detector A. If the obstacle is there, then twenty five

867
00:40:54,480 --> 00:40:57,120
Speaker 1: percent of the time you see the photon in detector B.

868
00:40:57,719 --> 00:40:59,960
Speaker 1: And that's kind of cool because what that means is

869
00:41:00,160 --> 00:41:03,480
Speaker 1: you can detect that the obstacle is there without sending

870
00:41:03,480 --> 00:41:06,600
Speaker 1: a particle to it. Right, the photon only goes through

871
00:41:06,640 --> 00:41:10,000
Speaker 1: the open path, the one that doesn't have the obstacle.

872
00:41:10,480 --> 00:41:12,719
Speaker 1: So now I'm detecting that there's an obstacle along the

873
00:41:12,800 --> 00:41:15,880
Speaker 1: right path by sending a photon along the left path,

874
00:41:16,040 --> 00:41:19,000
Speaker 1: because now there's no possibility on the right path to

875
00:41:19,040 --> 00:41:22,120
Speaker 1: do the quantum interference with the left half of the photon.

876
00:41:22,360 --> 00:41:22,560
Speaker 13: Right.

877
00:41:22,560 --> 00:41:25,279
Speaker 5: But it seems like you then you're just communicating by

878
00:41:25,360 --> 00:41:27,719
Speaker 5: blocking things, right. It's sort of like, you know, the

879
00:41:27,760 --> 00:41:30,560
Speaker 5: reason that I see my head in front of me

880
00:41:30,680 --> 00:41:33,600
Speaker 5: is because just blocking the photons that are coming from

881
00:41:33,640 --> 00:41:36,080
Speaker 5: the wall behind it. So isn't that also the same thing?

882
00:41:36,440 --> 00:41:38,319
Speaker 1: It sounds sort of like the same thing, right. It

883
00:41:38,320 --> 00:41:40,160
Speaker 1: sounds like saying, well, what if I just send two

884
00:41:40,239 --> 00:41:42,880
Speaker 1: messengers and if one of them gets blocked, then I

885
00:41:42,960 --> 00:41:45,360
Speaker 1: know that there's a block there. Right. But here we

886
00:41:45,440 --> 00:41:48,480
Speaker 1: have not sent a photon along the other path. We've

887
00:41:48,480 --> 00:41:52,759
Speaker 1: only sent the quantum mechanical possibility, right, And so it's

888
00:41:52,800 --> 00:41:55,480
Speaker 1: different from the classical version. The classical version where you

889
00:41:55,520 --> 00:41:58,600
Speaker 1: have like actual messengers, you have to send someone along

890
00:41:58,640 --> 00:42:02,720
Speaker 1: both paths. Here we've sent the probability along both paths.

891
00:42:02,719 --> 00:42:06,240
Speaker 1: We haven't actually sent a particle. The photon only goes

892
00:42:06,360 --> 00:42:09,440
Speaker 1: along the open path. It doesn't go along this path.

893
00:42:09,480 --> 00:42:12,240
Speaker 1: We know that it has to go along the open path.

894
00:42:12,560 --> 00:42:14,799
Speaker 5: Wait, does this work with only one photon or do

895
00:42:14,800 --> 00:42:16,279
Speaker 5: you have to send a bunch of photons?

896
00:42:16,360 --> 00:42:19,520
Speaker 1: Now this works with single photons, So you know which

897
00:42:19,600 --> 00:42:22,000
Speaker 1: path the photon went, that one photon went on the

898
00:42:22,040 --> 00:42:24,600
Speaker 1: open path and not on the blocked path. And yet

899
00:42:24,640 --> 00:42:26,960
Speaker 1: you know the obstacle is there, that the path is

900
00:42:27,080 --> 00:42:29,640
Speaker 1: blocked because of where the photon ended up.

901
00:42:29,680 --> 00:42:32,680
Speaker 5: But you only know that by taking a statistical survey

902
00:42:32,760 --> 00:42:34,000
Speaker 5: right of photons you sent through.

903
00:42:34,080 --> 00:42:36,759
Speaker 1: Any photon that arrives and detector B tells you that

904
00:42:36,800 --> 00:42:38,880
Speaker 1: the obstacle is there. So you may need to send

905
00:42:38,880 --> 00:42:41,359
Speaker 1: a few photons through your experiment to figure it out.

906
00:42:41,400 --> 00:42:43,239
Speaker 5: I mean it's sort of like random, right, Like if

907
00:42:43,280 --> 00:42:45,279
Speaker 5: you send one photon and it goes through A, it

908
00:42:45,280 --> 00:42:47,239
Speaker 5: doesn't tell you there's an obstacle or not.

909
00:42:47,600 --> 00:42:49,240
Speaker 1: That's right. A doesn't give you information.

910
00:42:49,320 --> 00:42:51,000
Speaker 5: You have to keep going until you get one in

911
00:42:51,040 --> 00:42:52,040
Speaker 5: the one that got blocked.

912
00:42:52,080 --> 00:42:54,759
Speaker 1: That's true. But it's individual photons, right, It's not like

913
00:42:54,800 --> 00:42:57,880
Speaker 1: a beam. It's not like the electromagnetic classical fields are

914
00:42:58,000 --> 00:43:01,080
Speaker 1: interfering here. These are individual phot photons. It doesn't work

915
00:43:01,120 --> 00:43:03,880
Speaker 1: every time, It only works twenty five percent of the time.

916
00:43:04,040 --> 00:43:06,360
Speaker 1: But when you see a photon hit B, that means

917
00:43:06,400 --> 00:43:09,680
Speaker 1: it didn't follow the block path, and that path has

918
00:43:09,800 --> 00:43:12,400
Speaker 1: to be blocked. It's only one way for the photon

919
00:43:12,440 --> 00:43:14,279
Speaker 1: to get to the second detector, and that's if the

920
00:43:14,360 --> 00:43:16,759
Speaker 1: right hand path is blocked. The path it did not

921
00:43:16,960 --> 00:43:18,400
Speaker 1: follow is blocked.

922
00:43:18,680 --> 00:43:21,480
Speaker 5: Right, So you're saying that it communicates sort of without

923
00:43:21,480 --> 00:43:24,440
Speaker 5: making a ripple, but only eight twenty five percent of

924
00:43:24,480 --> 00:43:27,560
Speaker 5: the time, or this email only works twenty five percent of.

925
00:43:27,480 --> 00:43:29,200
Speaker 1: The time, which is more often than I get answers

926
00:43:29,200 --> 00:43:32,759
Speaker 1: to email sometimes anyway. But now imagine that you are

927
00:43:32,800 --> 00:43:35,160
Speaker 1: controlling the obstacle and you're far away or something, and

928
00:43:35,200 --> 00:43:37,279
Speaker 1: I can just look at the detectors. Now you can

929
00:43:37,320 --> 00:43:41,000
Speaker 1: send me information by opening and closing the obstacle without

930
00:43:41,080 --> 00:43:44,160
Speaker 1: us exchanging any photons or any kind of particle or

931
00:43:44,200 --> 00:43:47,080
Speaker 1: any kind of ripple in any kind of field. Just

932
00:43:47,080 --> 00:43:51,160
Speaker 1: the quantum mechanical probability of my photons going through your

933
00:43:51,160 --> 00:43:55,279
Speaker 1: obstacle or the lack of that probability is sending information.

934
00:43:55,480 --> 00:43:57,799
Speaker 5: All right, Now we're getting into the practical application of

935
00:43:57,840 --> 00:44:00,520
Speaker 5: sending a qmail, and so let's get into the details

936
00:44:00,520 --> 00:44:02,600
Speaker 5: of that arrangement and how it might work. But first,

937
00:44:02,680 --> 00:44:04,120
Speaker 5: let's take another quick break.

938
00:44:08,880 --> 00:44:10,680
Speaker 1: When you pop a piece of cheese into your mouth,

939
00:44:10,800 --> 00:44:13,960
Speaker 1: or enjoy a rich spoonful of Greek yogurt, you're probably

940
00:44:14,000 --> 00:44:18,040
Speaker 1: not thinking about the environmental impact of each and every bite.

941
00:44:18,080 --> 00:44:20,680
Speaker 1: But the people in the dairy industry are. US Dairy

942
00:44:20,719 --> 00:44:25,000
Speaker 1: has set themselves some ambitious sustainability goals, including being greenhouse

943
00:44:25,040 --> 00:44:27,640
Speaker 1: gas neutral by twenty to fifty. That's why they're working

944
00:44:27,640 --> 00:44:30,000
Speaker 1: hard every day to find new ways to reduce waste,

945
00:44:30,080 --> 00:44:34,279
Speaker 1: conserve natural resources, and drive down greenhouse gas emissions. Take water,

946
00:44:34,320 --> 00:44:37,920
Speaker 1: for example, most dairy farms reuse water up to four times.

947
00:44:37,960 --> 00:44:41,360
Speaker 1: The same water cools the milk, cleans equipment, washes the barn,

948
00:44:41,440 --> 00:44:45,160
Speaker 1: and irrigates the crops. How is US dairy tackling greenhouse gases?

949
00:44:45,200 --> 00:44:48,160
Speaker 1: Many farms use anaerobic digestors that turn the methane from

950
00:44:48,200 --> 00:44:51,600
Speaker 1: maneuver into renewable energy that can power farms towns and

951
00:44:51,640 --> 00:44:53,879
Speaker 1: electric cars. So the next time you grab a slice

952
00:44:53,880 --> 00:44:55,799
Speaker 1: of pizza or lick an ice cream cone, know that

953
00:44:55,880 --> 00:44:58,520
Speaker 1: dairy farmers and processors around the country are using the

954
00:44:58,600 --> 00:45:02,360
Speaker 1: latest practices and inn to provide the nutrient dense dairy

955
00:45:02,360 --> 00:45:05,040
Speaker 1: products we love with less of an impact. Visit us

956
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Speaker 1: dairy dot com slash sustainability to learn more.

957
00:45:07,840 --> 00:45:12,240
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958
00:45:12,239 --> 00:45:14,880
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959
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960
00:45:17,600 --> 00:45:20,399
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961
00:45:20,719 --> 00:45:23,080
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962
00:45:23,120 --> 00:45:25,680
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963
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964
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965
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966
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967
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968
00:45:38,080 --> 00:45:41,040
Speaker 13: California has millions of homes that could be damaged in

969
00:45:41,080 --> 00:45:45,120
Speaker 13: a strong earthquake. Older homes are especially vulnerable to quake damage,

970
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971
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972
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976
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977
00:46:08,840 --> 00:46:12,239
Speaker 6: There are children, friends, and families walking, riding on paths

978
00:46:12,320 --> 00:46:14,799
Speaker 6: and roads every day. Remember they're real people with loved

979
00:46:14,800 --> 00:46:17,000
Speaker 6: ones who need them to get home safely. Protect our

980
00:46:17,000 --> 00:46:20,560
Speaker 6: cyclists and pedestrians because they're people too, Go safely. California

981
00:46:20,600 --> 00:46:23,240
Speaker 6: from the California Office of Traffic Safety and Caltrans.

982
00:46:30,560 --> 00:46:33,040
Speaker 5: All right, we're trying to send an email without leaving

983
00:46:33,120 --> 00:46:36,200
Speaker 5: a ripple in the universe, and we have this arrangement

984
00:46:36,200 --> 00:46:39,239
Speaker 5: of splitting photons and one possibility of the photon goes

985
00:46:39,239 --> 00:46:40,920
Speaker 5: one way and the other one maybe gets blocked. So

986
00:46:40,960 --> 00:46:43,320
Speaker 5: how do I translate that into sending an email?

987
00:46:43,400 --> 00:46:44,799
Speaker 1: Well, the first thing you'd want to do is do

988
00:46:44,880 --> 00:46:47,520
Speaker 1: better than twenty five percent. That doesn't seem like a

989
00:46:47,640 --> 00:46:50,319
Speaker 1: very good bit rate to lose your information seventy five

990
00:46:50,360 --> 00:46:52,400
Speaker 1: percent of the time. So people have come up with

991
00:46:52,440 --> 00:46:54,560
Speaker 1: like meta versions of this. Who you stack these on

992
00:46:54,600 --> 00:46:56,560
Speaker 1: top of each other so that if it goes to

993
00:46:56,600 --> 00:46:58,000
Speaker 1: a you have like another chance.

994
00:46:58,080 --> 00:47:00,600
Speaker 5: By the way, how am I actually communicating through these?

995
00:47:00,640 --> 00:47:02,520
Speaker 5: Like am I sending you the photon and then you're

996
00:47:02,560 --> 00:47:04,440
Speaker 5: on the other side receiving the photons or what?

997
00:47:04,680 --> 00:47:07,319
Speaker 1: You only control the gate. You only control whether the

998
00:47:07,400 --> 00:47:10,080
Speaker 1: right hand path is blocked or not. So you want

999
00:47:10,080 --> 00:47:12,040
Speaker 1: to send me some information, you close the gate or

1000
00:47:12,080 --> 00:47:12,520
Speaker 1: open it.

1001
00:47:12,760 --> 00:47:15,719
Speaker 5: I have like a Morse code button here that activates

1002
00:47:15,840 --> 00:47:18,920
Speaker 5: or deactivates the block the obstacle. And so where are

1003
00:47:19,000 --> 00:47:20,240
Speaker 5: you receiving this message?

1004
00:47:20,320 --> 00:47:23,440
Speaker 1: So I'm controlling the laser and the detectors, and we

1005
00:47:23,480 --> 00:47:27,919
Speaker 1: are not in communication in any other way. We're separated somehow, right,

1006
00:47:28,360 --> 00:47:30,640
Speaker 1: And so you can send me information, you can close

1007
00:47:30,680 --> 00:47:32,640
Speaker 1: the gate and we'll agree that. Like I'm going to

1008
00:47:32,680 --> 00:47:35,600
Speaker 1: send ten of my photons through the experiment and see

1009
00:47:35,600 --> 00:47:37,239
Speaker 1: if I get any of them on b and then

1010
00:47:37,239 --> 00:47:39,359
Speaker 1: I'll know that the gate is closed. You and I

1011
00:47:39,440 --> 00:47:41,120
Speaker 1: do not have to talk to each other or communicate

1012
00:47:41,160 --> 00:47:43,719
Speaker 1: in any other way. But I can tell whether or

1013
00:47:43,760 --> 00:47:46,479
Speaker 1: not you have closed the gate just by seeing if

1014
00:47:46,520 --> 00:47:48,560
Speaker 1: any photons arrive at the dector.

1015
00:47:48,600 --> 00:47:50,880
Speaker 5: B oh, I see you're not talking about something at

1016
00:47:50,920 --> 00:47:53,479
Speaker 5: a distance, because we kind of have to be close

1017
00:47:53,520 --> 00:47:55,040
Speaker 5: to each other if I'm going to be pressing the

1018
00:47:55,080 --> 00:47:59,000
Speaker 5: button and blocking your stream of photons partially, right.

1019
00:47:58,840 --> 00:48:01,040
Speaker 1: That's right. I have to set up my experiment so

1020
00:48:01,080 --> 00:48:03,719
Speaker 1: that it's possible for my photons to go through your

1021
00:48:03,719 --> 00:48:04,600
Speaker 1: gate if it's open.

1022
00:48:04,840 --> 00:48:07,560
Speaker 5: Okay. So, and then you're at the end measuring what

1023
00:48:07,760 --> 00:48:10,560
Speaker 5: comes through this arrangement, and you're saying that if you

1024
00:48:10,680 --> 00:48:14,280
Speaker 5: get photons in one detector, then you don't know anything.

1025
00:48:14,360 --> 00:48:16,879
Speaker 5: But if you get it in the other detector, then

1026
00:48:16,920 --> 00:48:18,640
Speaker 5: you know that I activated my gate.

1027
00:48:18,840 --> 00:48:21,360
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly, you closed your gate and shut down the

1028
00:48:21,440 --> 00:48:25,479
Speaker 1: quantum probabilities for one half of the beam. In that case,

1029
00:48:25,520 --> 00:48:28,440
Speaker 1: I know my photon didn't take your path because it

1030
00:48:28,600 --> 00:48:30,640
Speaker 1: went all the way through the experiment, so it didn't

1031
00:48:30,680 --> 00:48:33,160
Speaker 1: hit your obstacle, So I know which path it took,

1032
00:48:33,280 --> 00:48:35,200
Speaker 1: So I know that it didn't go through your obstacle.

1033
00:48:35,280 --> 00:48:38,120
Speaker 1: And yet I know something about your obstacle. I've learned

1034
00:48:38,160 --> 00:48:41,400
Speaker 1: something from your obstacle without sending any particles to you

1035
00:48:41,560 --> 00:48:42,759
Speaker 1: or getting any back from you.

1036
00:48:42,880 --> 00:48:45,040
Speaker 5: But I feel like some ripple has been made and

1037
00:48:45,080 --> 00:48:48,759
Speaker 5: you use particles to get this information, right, Like, you know,

1038
00:48:48,880 --> 00:48:52,560
Speaker 5: my obstacle had to come into effect and had to

1039
00:48:52,840 --> 00:48:55,640
Speaker 5: like act and exist, right, and some of the time

1040
00:48:55,680 --> 00:48:58,399
Speaker 5: it is going to be blocking the photon right from

1041
00:48:58,400 --> 00:49:00,879
Speaker 5: going through. So it feels like a very loyally kind

1042
00:49:00,920 --> 00:49:03,000
Speaker 5: of like, hey, we got magic, but only if you

1043
00:49:03,200 --> 00:49:05,520
Speaker 5: sort of look at it in this very narrow and

1044
00:49:05,719 --> 00:49:07,520
Speaker 5: then and technical way.

1045
00:49:07,600 --> 00:49:10,040
Speaker 1: But yes, but physicists are lawyers of the universe, right,

1046
00:49:10,040 --> 00:49:11,919
Speaker 1: We're like, where's the loophole. The rule says we can't

1047
00:49:11,920 --> 00:49:14,400
Speaker 1: do exactly this, Let's see if we can accomplish it

1048
00:49:14,440 --> 00:49:17,040
Speaker 1: without actually doing that thing. And so, yes, it's a

1049
00:49:17,080 --> 00:49:20,440
Speaker 1: half step forward. You know, we are definitely sending quantum

1050
00:49:20,520 --> 00:49:25,279
Speaker 1: mechanical probabilities in order to communicate. I'm sending the probability

1051
00:49:25,360 --> 00:49:27,320
Speaker 1: of a photon in your way, the fact that it

1052
00:49:27,400 --> 00:49:29,279
Speaker 1: doesn't make it through your gate and so it can't

1053
00:49:29,320 --> 00:49:32,040
Speaker 1: come back to interfere with the other probability. It is

1054
00:49:32,120 --> 00:49:35,719
Speaker 1: definitely how the information is being propagated. And yet it

1055
00:49:35,880 --> 00:49:39,200
Speaker 1: is true that we're not sending any actual particle or

1056
00:49:39,239 --> 00:49:42,399
Speaker 1: any actual field. We're only sending the probability of it.

1057
00:49:42,760 --> 00:49:45,200
Speaker 1: So yeah, it's a half step forward, but it's definitely

1058
00:49:45,239 --> 00:49:48,799
Speaker 1: not sending a message with particles or with fields themselves.

1059
00:49:49,719 --> 00:49:52,320
Speaker 5: Interesting and so what is Is this an actual experiment

1060
00:49:52,360 --> 00:49:54,360
Speaker 5: that's been done and it works, or is this just

1061
00:49:54,400 --> 00:49:55,760
Speaker 5: a theoretical construction.

1062
00:49:56,040 --> 00:49:58,840
Speaker 1: No, people have done this and they've actually seen these results,

1063
00:49:58,840 --> 00:50:01,520
Speaker 1: and so we have accomplished this. We have sent information

1064
00:50:01,640 --> 00:50:05,040
Speaker 1: without communicating any particles. Right, these photons are going through

1065
00:50:05,080 --> 00:50:08,120
Speaker 1: the non obstructed path and yet telling us whether or

1066
00:50:08,160 --> 00:50:11,040
Speaker 1: not the other path is obstructed. And people have built

1067
00:50:11,120 --> 00:50:13,319
Speaker 1: up on this. You can make this more robust by

1068
00:50:13,320 --> 00:50:14,799
Speaker 1: stacking a few of these on top of each other,

1069
00:50:14,840 --> 00:50:17,239
Speaker 1: having like multiple gates. You open them all at once

1070
00:50:17,320 --> 00:50:19,239
Speaker 1: or close them all at once, so you can make

1071
00:50:19,280 --> 00:50:22,200
Speaker 1: it more robust. And there's a group in China that's

1072
00:50:22,200 --> 00:50:25,799
Speaker 1: been using this to send information to like demonstrate how

1073
00:50:25,840 --> 00:50:28,560
Speaker 1: to actually do this, so they can like send information

1074
00:50:28,680 --> 00:50:33,319
Speaker 1: from one computer to another computer without any actual messages

1075
00:50:33,360 --> 00:50:36,120
Speaker 1: passing back and forth. And they've actually done this. They

1076
00:50:36,160 --> 00:50:38,040
Speaker 1: sent a picture of a flower. I think it was

1077
00:50:38,080 --> 00:50:40,160
Speaker 1: from one computer to another computer.

1078
00:50:41,440 --> 00:50:44,239
Speaker 5: How good can you get with the stacking, Like you said,

1079
00:50:44,680 --> 00:50:48,760
Speaker 5: one photon, it's twenty five percent one setup, it's twenty

1080
00:50:48,760 --> 00:50:51,799
Speaker 5: five percent accuracy. I guess how good can you get it?

1081
00:50:51,840 --> 00:50:53,279
Speaker 1: Well, it just depends on how many times you want

1082
00:50:53,280 --> 00:50:55,440
Speaker 1: to stack it. So the more versions of this experiment

1083
00:50:55,440 --> 00:50:58,080
Speaker 1: you have, the more opportunities you have to see that photon,

1084
00:50:58,239 --> 00:51:00,960
Speaker 1: and so you can get it. Essentially, our'truly good if

1085
00:51:01,000 --> 00:51:03,040
Speaker 1: you string together, you know, one hundred or a thousand

1086
00:51:03,120 --> 00:51:05,279
Speaker 1: of these things. So people have some clever ideas for

1087
00:51:05,280 --> 00:51:07,040
Speaker 1: how to do that. But you know, people have done

1088
00:51:07,040 --> 00:51:10,800
Speaker 1: this experiment. They like communicated this picture from one computer

1089
00:51:11,120 --> 00:51:14,440
Speaker 1: to another without actually sending any particles. Now there's a

1090
00:51:14,480 --> 00:51:17,000
Speaker 1: lot of controversy about this result. Some people feel like

1091
00:51:17,440 --> 00:51:20,400
Speaker 1: there's loopholes there. They don't quite believe the result that

1092
00:51:20,440 --> 00:51:24,200
Speaker 1: it's really solid. So it's not like this is conclusively demonstrated.

1093
00:51:24,640 --> 00:51:27,319
Speaker 1: The simple experiment with a single photon that's definitely been

1094
00:51:27,360 --> 00:51:30,560
Speaker 1: done that agrees with the quantum mechanical predictions. The more

1095
00:51:30,600 --> 00:51:33,200
Speaker 1: sophisticated thing, where you're like, are sending images from computer

1096
00:51:33,239 --> 00:51:37,600
Speaker 1: to computer without actually sending any particles, that's much more controversial, right.

1097
00:51:37,520 --> 00:51:39,600
Speaker 5: And I think it also maybe depends on what you

1098
00:51:39,719 --> 00:51:43,440
Speaker 5: mean philosophically by like causing a ripple in a universe

1099
00:51:43,520 --> 00:51:46,880
Speaker 5: or things not interacting, right, because things are definitely interacting here,

1100
00:51:47,000 --> 00:51:50,080
Speaker 5: they're just interacting in a quantum way, right, So you know,

1101
00:51:50,120 --> 00:51:53,520
Speaker 5: if I'm on the opposing council of this courtroom universe,

1102
00:51:53,560 --> 00:51:55,799
Speaker 5: I might say like, hey, you're still you know, you're

1103
00:51:55,840 --> 00:51:58,160
Speaker 5: still using physics. This is affecting that, and that is

1104
00:51:58,200 --> 00:52:00,399
Speaker 5: affecting these other things, and so there be where you're

1105
00:52:00,400 --> 00:52:02,120
Speaker 5: still causing a ripple in the universe.

1106
00:52:02,719 --> 00:52:06,520
Speaker 1: And it opens up really interesting philosophical questions like is

1107
00:52:06,719 --> 00:52:10,560
Speaker 1: information physical is it quantum mechanical. A lot of people

1108
00:52:10,600 --> 00:52:13,680
Speaker 1: think that this whole quantum mechanical stuff is just abstract,

1109
00:52:13,960 --> 00:52:16,359
Speaker 1: that this wave function we're talking about, it's just like

1110
00:52:16,400 --> 00:52:19,000
Speaker 1: a calculation we do in our heads that helps us

1111
00:52:19,040 --> 00:52:22,000
Speaker 1: predict things, but the wave function itself is not real.

1112
00:52:22,120 --> 00:52:25,319
Speaker 1: But these kind of experiments support the other argument that

1113
00:52:25,360 --> 00:52:28,759
Speaker 1: the wave function itself is real and is out there

1114
00:52:28,760 --> 00:52:32,040
Speaker 1: and carries information on its own, because what we're doing

1115
00:52:32,080 --> 00:52:36,560
Speaker 1: here is not sending information via physical objects, right, actual photons,

1116
00:52:36,640 --> 00:52:40,680
Speaker 1: actual electrons, but the probability of them, right, just their

1117
00:52:40,800 --> 00:52:44,239
Speaker 1: quantum mechanical waves. So you're right, we're still sending information

1118
00:52:44,520 --> 00:52:47,759
Speaker 1: using the rules of the universe, and it's still propagating,

1119
00:52:47,760 --> 00:52:51,560
Speaker 1: but it's propagating in this probability space. And it's pretty

1120
00:52:51,560 --> 00:52:56,080
Speaker 1: bonkers to imagine that those are actually real in some philosophical.

1121
00:52:55,400 --> 00:52:58,480
Speaker 5: Sense, right, although you are still collapsing things, right. I mean,

1122
00:52:58,520 --> 00:53:01,160
Speaker 5: if you're sending ten twenty one hundred photons, if you're

1123
00:53:01,160 --> 00:53:04,120
Speaker 5: passing these through like one hundred of these gates, you're

1124
00:53:04,280 --> 00:53:07,239
Speaker 5: essentially kind of collapsing things right to measure them.

1125
00:53:07,320 --> 00:53:09,879
Speaker 1: It collapses the wave function when you put the obstacle there, right,

1126
00:53:10,160 --> 00:53:12,480
Speaker 1: And that's how part of the information propagates the fact

1127
00:53:12,520 --> 00:53:14,320
Speaker 1: that there is no quantum way of coming along on

1128
00:53:14,360 --> 00:53:16,279
Speaker 1: the right side, and if you're with the left side,

1129
00:53:16,480 --> 00:53:18,680
Speaker 1: is how you know the right side is blocked. But

1130
00:53:18,719 --> 00:53:21,719
Speaker 1: it's not a physical object that's being blocked. It's just

1131
00:53:21,800 --> 00:53:22,680
Speaker 1: the probability.

1132
00:53:22,719 --> 00:53:25,560
Speaker 5: It's not a classical object being blocked, I think, is

1133
00:53:25,600 --> 00:53:26,120
Speaker 5: what you're saying.

1134
00:53:26,200 --> 00:53:28,719
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's not an observed quantity being blocked. It's just

1135
00:53:28,760 --> 00:53:32,480
Speaker 1: the probability. And that suggests that the probability itself is

1136
00:53:32,600 --> 00:53:35,160
Speaker 1: real in some way. Like has the information And it's

1137
00:53:35,160 --> 00:53:38,319
Speaker 1: this deep question about information, like is information physical this

1138
00:53:38,400 --> 00:53:41,160
Speaker 1: idea we have that it has to like propagate locally

1139
00:53:41,440 --> 00:53:44,880
Speaker 1: from real objects to other real objects. Maybe it doesn't.

1140
00:53:45,120 --> 00:53:48,120
Speaker 1: Maybe information is quantum mechanical and it can propagate through

1141
00:53:48,200 --> 00:53:51,520
Speaker 1: this like probability space, which again means like maybe the

1142
00:53:51,560 --> 00:53:55,000
Speaker 1: wave function itself is real in some way, which is

1143
00:53:55,080 --> 00:53:57,160
Speaker 1: hard to grapple with because the wave function, you know,

1144
00:53:57,280 --> 00:54:01,000
Speaker 1: it's a complex number. You can have values four plus

1145
00:54:01,080 --> 00:54:03,680
Speaker 1: two I and we don't think of these as real numbers.

1146
00:54:03,719 --> 00:54:06,400
Speaker 1: We don't call them real numbers because they're imaginary numbers,

1147
00:54:06,440 --> 00:54:08,960
Speaker 1: because they're just like a calculation we do in our heads.

1148
00:54:09,360 --> 00:54:11,879
Speaker 1: But maybe they are real, right because we can use

1149
00:54:11,960 --> 00:54:16,000
Speaker 1: them to actually propagate information that doesn't appear in physical space.

1150
00:54:16,360 --> 00:54:18,480
Speaker 5: All right, well, well what do you think this all

1151
00:54:18,520 --> 00:54:20,759
Speaker 5: means and how soon are we gonna maybe see this

1152
00:54:20,960 --> 00:54:22,279
Speaker 5: in my iPhone?

1153
00:54:22,400 --> 00:54:24,719
Speaker 1: Well it's a very exciting development, and you know, it

1154
00:54:24,800 --> 00:54:27,120
Speaker 1: serves to break down some of these barriers to tell

1155
00:54:27,200 --> 00:54:30,480
Speaker 1: us that something we thought was impossible is now possible.

1156
00:54:30,680 --> 00:54:32,920
Speaker 1: And it might feel like a technicality to you, but

1157
00:54:33,000 --> 00:54:35,440
Speaker 1: it's a crack in that door. It opens it up,

1158
00:54:35,719 --> 00:54:37,480
Speaker 1: and maybe we can get our foot in there and

1159
00:54:37,520 --> 00:54:40,600
Speaker 1: then push it open and develop technologies that we thought

1160
00:54:40,600 --> 00:54:44,560
Speaker 1: were impossible, like sending messages between computers without actually connecting

1161
00:54:44,600 --> 00:54:45,760
Speaker 1: them in any way.

1162
00:54:46,000 --> 00:54:48,560
Speaker 5: All right, well, it sounds like stay tuned. We might

1163
00:54:48,600 --> 00:54:51,680
Speaker 5: see this in the future or not. Or both at

1164
00:54:51,680 --> 00:54:54,040
Speaker 5: the same time. You hope you enjoyed that. Thanks for

1165
00:54:54,120 --> 00:54:55,839
Speaker 5: joining us, See you next time.

1166
00:55:03,560 --> 00:55:06,360
Speaker 1: Thanks for listening, and remember that Daniel and Jorge Explain

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Speaker 1: the Universe is a production of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts

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