WEBVTT - Level Up Your Money with Gamification #155 0:00:00.080 --> 0:00:02.759 Welcome to How the Money. I'm Joel and I'm Matts, 0:00:02.840 --> 0:00:05.760 and today we're discussing how to level up your money 0:00:05.960 --> 0:00:28.760 with gamification. Yep, man, we're gonna talk about gamification. You know, 0:00:28.800 --> 0:00:30.560 every time I see that word written out, I want 0:00:30.560 --> 0:00:34.120 to say gammafication like a Gamma ray. Yeah, like Gamma 0:00:34.200 --> 0:00:37.160 rays exactly, because that sounds more fun and games are fun. 0:00:37.240 --> 0:00:40.800 So yeah, well, gamification in and of itself is fun. Rights, 0:00:42.320 --> 0:00:44.200 so can we play games of our finances to do better? 0:00:44.200 --> 0:00:45.840 That's what we're gonna get into. That's what we're gonna 0:00:45.840 --> 0:00:48.080 talk about. Man. Before we do that, we came across 0:00:48.080 --> 0:00:50.839 this article about all these new mattress companies and the 0:00:50.920 --> 0:00:53.320 return policy. You want to dive into it a little bit, sure, Yeah, 0:00:53.360 --> 0:00:56.320 So instead of gamification, what people are doing is gaming 0:00:56.320 --> 0:01:01.360 the system of these mattress companies. And there are these beautiful, 0:01:01.440 --> 0:01:05.720 wonderful free a hundred night or more trials that a 0:01:05.720 --> 0:01:08.039 lot of these new mattress companies offered. These bed in 0:01:08.040 --> 0:01:10.000 the box. They ship it to your house and you 0:01:10.000 --> 0:01:11.240 test it out and you see whether you like it 0:01:11.319 --> 0:01:13.200 or not. Like Casper was at the forefront of this, right, 0:01:13.200 --> 0:01:15.280 I mean, there are all sorts of companies out there 0:01:15.280 --> 0:01:18.600 now that will ship you a needle. Yeah, there's Avocado, 0:01:18.920 --> 0:01:21.479 aren't they like one of the primo ones they are? Yeah, 0:01:21.520 --> 0:01:23.880 I think so. I can't show up for that, dude, right, right. 0:01:24.280 --> 0:01:27.240 But the cool thing is because people are like, I 0:01:27.240 --> 0:01:29.600 don't know you, I'm not sat on your bed, like 0:01:29.640 --> 0:01:32.400 I can't tell whether it's good or not. These companies, 0:01:32.440 --> 0:01:35.120 in order to build confidence and for people to actually 0:01:35.160 --> 0:01:36.600 make the purchase and give it a try, well, they 0:01:36.640 --> 0:01:38.440 needed to have a great return policy. And I love 0:01:38.480 --> 0:01:39.960 that that exists, Like, that's such a nice way to 0:01:40.000 --> 0:01:42.360 buy something with that peace of mind. Certainly. Yeah, it's 0:01:42.400 --> 0:01:45.040 a perfect solution to a problem when you have an 0:01:45.040 --> 0:01:48.480 online retail model, right, And so specifically, if you are 0:01:48.600 --> 0:01:51.280 looking to buy a mattress and you're genuinely wanting to 0:01:51.320 --> 0:01:55.960 try it out, support the one month free trial or 0:01:56.040 --> 0:01:58.320 three months free trial or even one year. There there's 0:01:58.400 --> 0:02:02.200 one example where this one company has a full sixty 0:02:02.240 --> 0:02:06.760 five day return policy. Is incredible, very incredible, so incredible 0:02:06.920 --> 0:02:11.320 that people are completely taking advantage of that situation sleeping 0:02:11.360 --> 0:02:14.600 on the bed for free for anywhere between a month 0:02:14.639 --> 0:02:17.880 and a full year and sending that junk back. Yeah, 0:02:17.919 --> 0:02:20.440 a lot of people think about that. What people quoted 0:02:20.480 --> 0:02:23.280 in the article said, you never have to buy mattress again. 0:02:23.360 --> 0:02:25.240 Basically what you do is you just get a new 0:02:25.240 --> 0:02:28.560 one every three months by returning the one and just 0:02:28.600 --> 0:02:30.520 saying that you you didn't like it or wasn't up 0:02:30.520 --> 0:02:33.480 to your standards or whatever. And I think what's gonna 0:02:33.480 --> 0:02:37.200 happen is is that these generous return policies, these generous 0:02:37.200 --> 0:02:39.400 trials are going to end because of the people that 0:02:39.400 --> 0:02:42.040 are gaming the system. And it's unfortunate because it's a 0:02:42.040 --> 0:02:44.120 great new business model. It's a great way to get 0:02:44.200 --> 0:02:46.760 a bed, and there are some great companies out there 0:02:47.160 --> 0:02:49.320 with great customer service that are trying to take care 0:02:49.360 --> 0:02:51.160 of people that actually want to buy a new bed. 0:02:51.480 --> 0:02:53.320 And these people are going to ruin it for everyone. 0:02:53.440 --> 0:02:55.600 They're gonna ruin that free trial period. It's just like, 0:02:55.840 --> 0:02:58.120 didn't Costco have to like kind of go back on 0:02:58.160 --> 0:03:00.520 their return policy where they they said they would take anything, 0:03:00.560 --> 0:03:03.239 but then folks started bringing back ridiculous stuff. Yeah, and 0:03:03.280 --> 0:03:06.520 Costco still has an amazing return policy. The thing they 0:03:06.560 --> 0:03:10.239 had to tweak was how they accepted electronics returns because 0:03:10.280 --> 0:03:13.359 people would come back and say, I'm returning this desktop 0:03:13.400 --> 0:03:18.360 computer from two thousand and five because because you know what, 0:03:18.520 --> 0:03:21.400 not because it's it's bad. I got my use out 0:03:21.440 --> 0:03:23.720 of it, it's been great, but it turns out they're 0:03:23.800 --> 0:03:26.400 way way cheaper now and way way better, and so 0:03:26.560 --> 0:03:28.480 I'd like to return my money back. Yeah, I like 0:03:28.520 --> 0:03:30.800 the five thousand dollars I spent on this desktop computer, 0:03:30.919 --> 0:03:32.920 and I'm gonna buy a four one now and so 0:03:33.000 --> 0:03:35.640 that that's five times faster. Again, that's that's an example 0:03:35.640 --> 0:03:38.200 of people gaming the system, not using it for what 0:03:38.240 --> 0:03:40.480 it's supposed to be used for. And so I have 0:03:40.600 --> 0:03:43.119 no problem if someone returning a mattress because they say 0:03:43.840 --> 0:03:46.640 it wasn't great, but I genuinely wanted to give it 0:03:46.720 --> 0:03:48.920 a try. I really thought I might actually keep it. 0:03:49.320 --> 0:03:51.840 And the same thing with something like Costco. If you're 0:03:51.840 --> 0:03:53.880 going to buy something and return it because it wasn't 0:03:53.920 --> 0:03:56.280 up the snuff for you had a problem, that's totally fine. 0:03:56.480 --> 0:03:59.080 But gaming the system like that is just in my mind, 0:03:59.120 --> 0:04:02.160 that's cheap. That's not frugal. Yeah, this is a great 0:04:02.160 --> 0:04:04.560 example of frugal versus cheap, which, dude, by the way, 0:04:04.600 --> 0:04:06.360 we need to do more frugal verse cheaps. I feel 0:04:06.360 --> 0:04:08.280 like we've kind of fallen off the wagon a little bit, 0:04:08.280 --> 0:04:11.160 so maybe maybe this year we can revitalize that a 0:04:11.200 --> 0:04:12.640 little bit. But yeah, I feel like this is a 0:04:12.640 --> 0:04:16.680 perfect example of someone being cheap, not frugal, and specifically, 0:04:16.720 --> 0:04:18.839 I think a big part of that is obviously folks 0:04:18.839 --> 0:04:21.400 are not being perfectly honest as well, right, but just 0:04:21.440 --> 0:04:23.440 all the waste that's involved as well, Like, that's the 0:04:23.440 --> 0:04:25.720 biggest thing that kind of bothers me is that there's 0:04:25.720 --> 0:04:27.520 a lot of states where they're not allowed or they 0:04:27.520 --> 0:04:30.960 don't allow themselves to resell these you know, quote unquote 0:04:31.040 --> 0:04:33.560 used mattresses or even give them away, like they have 0:04:33.640 --> 0:04:35.440 to be thrown in the trash. And it's such a 0:04:35.480 --> 0:04:37.960 shame because that's a lot of waste. These barely used 0:04:37.960 --> 0:04:41.960 mattresses would would be great in serving uh folks in 0:04:41.960 --> 0:04:44.080 in areas that where there's a lot of poverty, where 0:04:44.080 --> 0:04:47.680 where the homeless shelters lots of application. There could be 0:04:47.680 --> 0:04:50.360 so many great uses for these gently used mattresses, but 0:04:50.800 --> 0:04:53.039 a lot of these guidelines and understandable, right, there could 0:04:53.040 --> 0:04:55.520 be bed bugs or something like that, Like mattresses are 0:04:55.600 --> 0:04:57.680 kind of one of those items that buying used. You 0:04:57.720 --> 0:05:00.080 have to be aware, so I understand the rules, but 0:05:00.120 --> 0:05:01.600 it's a it's a shame. And I think this makes 0:05:01.600 --> 0:05:03.240 it even more of a shame because we know a 0:05:03.240 --> 0:05:05.720 lot of those mattresses are going in the landfills, which 0:05:05.800 --> 0:05:08.479 totally sucks man, exactly. That's like, that's the epitome of 0:05:08.480 --> 0:05:11.479 being cheap, when you're putting your cheapness upon somebody else, 0:05:11.880 --> 0:05:13.720 and this is a perfect example of that. Like this 0:05:13.800 --> 0:05:16.599 is going into a landfill, and you know, not only 0:05:16.920 --> 0:05:19.200 are you reaping a financial benefit from that, but you're 0:05:19.320 --> 0:05:21.839 you're displacing the cost of that onto not only everyone 0:05:21.839 --> 0:05:23.839 around you, but the earth as well. And we're not 0:05:23.839 --> 0:05:27.799 even talking about like the what the wasted resources and 0:05:27.920 --> 0:05:29.960 like the carbon footprint that it took to create that 0:05:30.000 --> 0:05:32.120 mattress as well, which and the shipping and all that. 0:05:32.360 --> 0:05:35.120 It totally kind of bums me out. So if that's you, 0:05:35.560 --> 0:05:38.080 I think twice yeah, And we love to know your 0:05:38.080 --> 0:05:40.280 thoughts on this too. I think it's an interesting topic, 0:05:40.320 --> 0:05:42.479 like the frugal versus cheap like when is it too far? 0:05:42.800 --> 0:05:44.520 And so yeah, maybe in the Facebook group if you 0:05:44.560 --> 0:05:46.080 want to let your thoughts be known, we'd love to 0:05:46.120 --> 0:05:48.480 hear from you just go to Facebook and search how 0:05:48.480 --> 0:05:50.680 the Money in the search bar, you'll find our group 0:05:50.680 --> 0:05:52.200 and we'd love to kind of hear your thoughts on 0:05:52.240 --> 0:05:54.760 that because it is an interesting topic. I'm going to 0:05:54.839 --> 0:05:56.640 create a fake account and go in there and say 0:05:56.720 --> 0:05:58.560 that I'm all for it and see what happens. Man, 0:05:58.560 --> 0:06:01.240 You're gonna start a ruckus in there. We'll get lampooned. 0:06:02.040 --> 0:06:04.160 Maybe you might well see Yeah, all right, Matt. We 0:06:04.240 --> 0:06:06.080 gotta mention the beer that we're having on the show today, 0:06:06.240 --> 0:06:09.240 astral Prism by Modern Times Beer. Big thanks to my 0:06:09.279 --> 0:06:11.440 buddy Craig who brews out there from Honor Time sending 0:06:11.440 --> 0:06:13.400 this one our away. Yeah. So I'm looking forward to 0:06:13.480 --> 0:06:15.560 enjoying this one, man, and getting your thoughts as well 0:06:15.640 --> 0:06:18.160 at the end of this episode. All right, man, sounds good, 0:06:18.200 --> 0:06:20.479 But now onto the subject at hand. We're talking about 0:06:20.600 --> 0:06:26.039 leveling up your money game with gamification, with gamification, not gammification, 0:06:26.120 --> 0:06:28.560 all right. But the reason, Matt, I think for this episode, 0:06:28.560 --> 0:06:31.000 and I think it's a perfect, you know, early January 0:06:31.080 --> 0:06:34.080 episode to do because a lot of us were really 0:06:34.080 --> 0:06:37.280 trying to figure out we're we're super intentional oftentimes in 0:06:37.360 --> 0:06:40.040 January and the beginning of January. How are we going 0:06:40.080 --> 0:06:42.359 to get our money game straight? How are we going 0:06:42.400 --> 0:06:45.599 to do better than we did in twenty nineteen? And 0:06:45.839 --> 0:06:48.520 tons of Americans have a real difficult to getting their 0:06:48.520 --> 0:06:51.080 personal finances together. Right there, There's a lot of folks 0:06:51.080 --> 0:06:54.280 out there, for many different reasons that have a hard 0:06:54.320 --> 0:06:57.839 time saving any money, investing any money, building wealth. And 0:06:57.839 --> 0:06:59.080 and that's what the show is about. We want to 0:06:59.080 --> 0:07:01.280 help people in all sorts of different walks of life 0:07:01.600 --> 0:07:04.640 achieve a modicum of financial independence in their lives. But 0:07:04.680 --> 0:07:06.680 they have a hard time making that progress with their 0:07:06.680 --> 0:07:09.240 different money goals that they're loosely trying to achieve. And 0:07:09.240 --> 0:07:13.600 I say loosely because mostly those goals are aspirational. There's 0:07:13.640 --> 0:07:17.280 no rubber meeting the road. And also there's this problem 0:07:17.280 --> 0:07:21.400 that achieving financial goals can be hard and boring. Right, 0:07:21.440 --> 0:07:24.600 Like people are like snooze fest, let me let me 0:07:24.680 --> 0:07:26.280 kick off the how of money guys and go listen 0:07:26.320 --> 0:07:29.120 to some like murder Mystery Show or something like that. Right, 0:07:29.120 --> 0:07:32.040 And I understand like those might be more funds, maybe 0:07:32.040 --> 0:07:35.040 sounds a little bit more fun. We're fun though, Hey, 0:07:35.080 --> 0:07:37.120 that's why we have a beer because we wanted to 0:07:37.160 --> 0:07:40.280 make personal finances a little more approachable and like, and 0:07:40.400 --> 0:07:42.080 that has a lot to do with our show, Like, 0:07:42.280 --> 0:07:45.160 I think gamification is just a perfect episode for us 0:07:45.200 --> 0:07:47.440 to cover. Yeah, so, so, really, how do we take 0:07:47.480 --> 0:07:50.680 these hopes and these dreams and turn them into this 0:07:50.800 --> 0:07:54.680 debt slaying, wealth building reality. Well, the fact is gamification, Like, 0:07:54.680 --> 0:07:56.920 that's what we're talking about here. When we can gamify 0:07:56.960 --> 0:07:59.920 our personal finances, that can help us to actually achieve 0:08:00.160 --> 0:08:02.880 some of those goals like paying down debt, like saving 0:08:03.280 --> 0:08:06.440 and investing more of our money when it would otherwise 0:08:06.440 --> 0:08:08.360 be something that we wouldn't do at all. Right, It 0:08:08.400 --> 0:08:12.000 will also likely make the entire process more speedy and 0:08:12.040 --> 0:08:15.800 fun as well. Gamification triggers our emotions, and it can 0:08:15.840 --> 0:08:18.240 lock us into a course of action that would be 0:08:18.360 --> 0:08:20.560 harder for us to pursue were it not for the 0:08:20.560 --> 0:08:23.520 implementation of these game like elements. Yeah, I think for 0:08:23.600 --> 0:08:27.679 a lot of us, a goal for is a great 0:08:27.680 --> 0:08:29.480 aim for this year is for to have a better 0:08:29.520 --> 0:08:32.679 relationship with money in general. And one thing that can 0:08:32.720 --> 0:08:36.080 help you achieve that is to modify your approach and 0:08:36.120 --> 0:08:39.640 think about money more like a game. Gamification helps us 0:08:39.720 --> 0:08:42.480 reframe this difficult subject and turn it into something that 0:08:42.559 --> 0:08:45.320 we can be a little more curious and experimental with. 0:08:45.600 --> 0:08:48.920 I think sometimes, Matt, that curiosity, that experimentation, when we're 0:08:48.920 --> 0:08:51.840 able to approach money from that angle as opposed to 0:08:51.880 --> 0:08:55.040 this like hard nosed Excel kind of angle, it can 0:08:55.120 --> 0:08:56.960 really give us a lot more leeway to jump in 0:08:57.000 --> 0:08:59.559 with both feet and to kind of get excited about 0:08:59.600 --> 0:09:03.120 seeing some move some changes with our finances. Yeah, that's true, 0:09:03.240 --> 0:09:06.160 because it's fun, right, And here's the thing. We like fun, 0:09:06.679 --> 0:09:09.680 But at the same time, it's not the end goal, right, Like, 0:09:09.720 --> 0:09:12.240 it's just a means to an end. Hopefully over time, 0:09:12.280 --> 0:09:14.760 by the repeated action of doing the smart thing because 0:09:14.760 --> 0:09:17.640 it happens to be fun, that can transform the way 0:09:17.720 --> 0:09:20.720 that we actually view that action. So when it comes 0:09:20.720 --> 0:09:23.560 to our money, we don't necessarily care that something is fun, 0:09:23.880 --> 0:09:26.880 only that it leads to improved behavior when it comes 0:09:26.880 --> 0:09:29.520 to your money, that it gets you doing whatever it 0:09:29.600 --> 0:09:31.640 is that you should be doing. I think there's sort 0:09:31.640 --> 0:09:33.400 of a warning in this as well, where we need 0:09:33.440 --> 0:09:35.360 to make sure that we're not getting sucked into the 0:09:35.400 --> 0:09:37.720 game itself, because sometimes we can kind of lose sight 0:09:37.800 --> 0:09:41.679 of the larger goals, right. I'm specifically thinking of coupons 0:09:41.720 --> 0:09:43.959 because people they see the coupon and they think that's 0:09:44.000 --> 0:09:47.280 such a great deal. Well cool, would you have purchased 0:09:47.280 --> 0:09:51.200 that overpriced you know, cheese? Otherwise maybe not? And so 0:09:51.280 --> 0:09:54.160 in that case you're taking advantage of maybe a specific deal, 0:09:54.600 --> 0:09:56.679 but the big picture is you spent more on that 0:09:56.720 --> 0:09:59.040 fancy cheese. Well, you know what I hate more than 0:09:59.040 --> 0:10:01.840 anything over price cheese. I'm glad you brought up that example, 0:10:01.880 --> 0:10:04.120 because that is a thorn in my side. My friend, Well, 0:10:04.160 --> 0:10:06.600 I know you're just joking, and I would actually love 0:10:06.640 --> 0:10:08.720 it if we had a beer in cheese paring. That 0:10:08.720 --> 0:10:10.839 sounds nice. Would that be? Oh my gosh, we'd be 0:10:10.880 --> 0:10:13.240 a fancy show then. But you know what, we couldn't 0:10:13.240 --> 0:10:15.640 do that. All They has some pretty nice cheeses, though 0:10:15.679 --> 0:10:17.560 at a reasonable price. I will say, yeah, I like 0:10:17.600 --> 0:10:20.000 all the cheese. All right, Matt. Since we're talking about 0:10:20.000 --> 0:10:22.160 gamification quickly, I gotta know, like, do you have like 0:10:22.200 --> 0:10:25.040 a favorite game, current or past? Maybe? Well, okay, So 0:10:25.120 --> 0:10:27.240 one that comes to mind is have I ever told 0:10:27.280 --> 0:10:31.240 you about what I affectionately used to call dt D. No, 0:10:32.400 --> 0:10:35.199 it's a desktop tower defense. Was this like back in 0:10:35.240 --> 0:10:38.160 the Prince of Persia days? Where you playing. That's also 0:10:38.480 --> 0:10:41.800 another fantastic game back in the speaking of computers from 0:10:41.800 --> 0:10:44.280 oh five, and I was like computers from ninety five, right, 0:10:44.920 --> 0:10:47.600 Uh No, it was this little flash game on this 0:10:47.679 --> 0:10:52.520 website and a very highly addictive simple game. But I 0:10:52.559 --> 0:10:55.080 spent way too many of my lunch breaks at my 0:10:55.160 --> 0:10:58.760 former advertising job playing that dumb game. And this is 0:10:58.800 --> 0:11:00.199 before we had kids as well. So I would come 0:11:00.240 --> 0:11:03.520 home and I would play it at home sometimes too, Okay, 0:11:03.520 --> 0:11:05.360 would hear the music playing the little sound effects, and 0:11:05.360 --> 0:11:07.080 she would roll her eyes, you know, like she's trying 0:11:07.120 --> 0:11:09.000 to convince me to stop wasting my time on this 0:11:09.120 --> 0:11:11.960 on the silly game, because I really really liked it. 0:11:12.720 --> 0:11:14.760 Don't look it up, by the way, because I'm not 0:11:14.800 --> 0:11:18.040 even kidding you would totally all right, I'll avoid it 0:11:18.080 --> 0:11:20.480 them like the Plague. It's really good, I think so, 0:11:20.640 --> 0:11:22.559 but probably my favorite, yeah what about you video game 0:11:22.600 --> 0:11:24.280 for a long time. I mean, I played a lot 0:11:24.280 --> 0:11:26.600 of NBA Jam back in the day. That's pretty good. 0:11:26.760 --> 0:11:29.960 Physical wise, I like spike Ball and disc golf a lot, right, 0:11:29.960 --> 0:11:32.199 those are my two favorite games. If if you're listening 0:11:32.200 --> 0:11:34.040 to Mike Ball, you and me last time we played, 0:11:34.080 --> 0:11:36.280 you mean we teamed up. We did. We tore it 0:11:36.360 --> 0:11:39.920 up completely dominated nice little deal. They were like little 0:11:40.000 --> 0:11:42.760 nas and uh Billy ray Ciris something like that. I'm 0:11:42.760 --> 0:11:44.640 not sure which one is which I'm little a little nas, 0:11:44.720 --> 0:11:47.600 Okay on the minority. I'll take that. I'll take that. Yeah. 0:11:47.760 --> 0:11:49.760 And for folks listening who haven't played spike ball, get 0:11:49.760 --> 0:11:51.720 on it. It's a great sport. It's fun. But we 0:11:51.800 --> 0:11:53.840 typically play games because there are a ton of fun 0:11:53.840 --> 0:11:56.000 and we enjoy them, right, and if we received some 0:11:56.080 --> 0:11:59.280 sort of like side benefit from the game, well it's 0:11:59.280 --> 0:12:01.920 just just a bone. This and strategy board games will 0:12:01.920 --> 0:12:03.719 They get us thinking and they keep us sharp and 0:12:03.720 --> 0:12:05.880 it makes you think about Matt Episode five, we talked 0:12:05.880 --> 0:12:08.199 about nerdy board games. We love nerdy board games as well. 0:12:08.600 --> 0:12:11.719 Also playing in like a Rex soccer league, well that 0:12:11.760 --> 0:12:13.920 can help keep us fit. But the fact the games 0:12:13.920 --> 0:12:16.440 are fun is at the root of why we played them. 0:12:16.600 --> 0:12:18.480 And depending on who you ask, they'll give you different 0:12:18.480 --> 0:12:21.240 reasons why games are fun. Maybe it's a competition that 0:12:21.240 --> 0:12:22.960 you're drawn to, or the prize at the end of 0:12:22.960 --> 0:12:25.160 the game or at the end of the season, the 0:12:25.200 --> 0:12:27.680 trophy that you get. Maybe, but there are aspects of 0:12:27.679 --> 0:12:29.480 a game that make it fun, and that's what we're 0:12:29.480 --> 0:12:32.240 focusing on in this episode. Yeah, when we can figure 0:12:32.240 --> 0:12:34.720 out what it is about a particular game that we 0:12:34.880 --> 0:12:37.439 love and that we're drawn to, well, then we can 0:12:37.480 --> 0:12:40.320 bridge that gap between a game that we love and 0:12:40.320 --> 0:12:42.880 our personal finances. That's what we believe here. We can 0:12:42.920 --> 0:12:46.240 take those principles from something we find naturally appealing and 0:12:46.280 --> 0:12:49.679 apply them to something that most folks financially boring, like 0:12:49.720 --> 0:12:54.320 saving and investing our money. So will budgeting ever be 0:12:54.400 --> 0:12:58.120 as fun as playing candy Crush or playing Fortnite? Probably not. 0:12:58.640 --> 0:13:00.600 But if we can bring even a action of the 0:13:00.640 --> 0:13:03.800 excitement to our personal finances that we have towards the 0:13:03.840 --> 0:13:06.839 games that we play, I think we'll all likely see 0:13:07.080 --> 0:13:10.120 our money in better places. In Yeah, So we're gonna 0:13:10.120 --> 0:13:11.760 go over kind of some of the things that make 0:13:11.800 --> 0:13:14.440 gaming fun and the way we can translate that to 0:13:14.880 --> 0:13:16.560 how we handle our money, and then a lot of 0:13:16.679 --> 0:13:19.360 really good examples I think that we've got we throughout 0:13:19.360 --> 0:13:21.400 this episode that you're going to be able to apply 0:13:21.480 --> 0:13:24.160 to your life. Now that you can change the way 0:13:24.200 --> 0:13:26.440 you handle your money, you can gamify it, and you 0:13:26.440 --> 0:13:28.960 know what it's going to have a massive impact on 0:13:29.200 --> 0:13:33.160 how your personal finances are handled. In like it's going 0:13:33.200 --> 0:13:35.640 to be able to help you make real changes in 0:13:35.640 --> 0:13:37.240 your life. And we'll get to some of that stuff 0:13:37.320 --> 0:13:49.000 right after the break. All right, Joel, we are back 0:13:49.040 --> 0:13:52.079 from the break, and let's talk now about what makes 0:13:52.160 --> 0:13:54.920 games fun. Right the rest of this episode, we're going 0:13:55.000 --> 0:13:57.120 to try and figure out what it is about games 0:13:57.160 --> 0:13:59.600 that we enjoy and they we're gonna apply those things 0:13:59.600 --> 0:14:02.439 to our personal finances. Man, I honestly think it's a 0:14:02.440 --> 0:14:06.040 little ironic that we're analyzing what it is that makes 0:14:06.080 --> 0:14:07.920 games fun, because it kind of sounds like one of 0:14:07.960 --> 0:14:10.920 the nerdiest, at least fun things that we've ever discussed. Right. 0:14:10.920 --> 0:14:12.560 It's sort of like if you were to take a 0:14:12.559 --> 0:14:15.520 college course on how to do stand up, Like you're 0:14:15.520 --> 0:14:18.640 analyzing a joke that's not really how it's supposed to 0:14:18.640 --> 0:14:20.960 be enjoyed. But at the same time, I think this 0:14:21.040 --> 0:14:23.520 is really important because I think there really are principles 0:14:23.560 --> 0:14:26.160 about games, and if we think about them in the 0:14:26.240 --> 0:14:28.320 right light, well, then we can take these principles and 0:14:28.360 --> 0:14:30.360 apply them to any problem that we're faced with, any 0:14:30.400 --> 0:14:33.240 sort of personal finance challenge, to find a way to 0:14:33.320 --> 0:14:35.400 make it stickier, to make it something that we will 0:14:35.400 --> 0:14:37.840 actually accomplish over time instead of kind of just kicking 0:14:37.840 --> 0:14:40.160 it to the side after that New Year's resolution kind 0:14:40.160 --> 0:14:42.880 of phase kind of wears off. Yeah. Yeah, a quick goal. 0:14:43.240 --> 0:14:45.800 It's easy to throw out a quick couple of financial goals, 0:14:45.920 --> 0:14:48.200 But implementation is where it gets hard, right, That's where 0:14:48.440 --> 0:14:51.360 it becomes more difficult. The stick tuitiveness, and I think 0:14:51.400 --> 0:14:55.200 sometimes gamification can help us stick to it. And so, yeah, 0:14:55.320 --> 0:14:58.040 what's one of the major reasons we like games, Well, 0:14:58.200 --> 0:15:00.960 one of them is competition. We like watching our favorite 0:15:01.040 --> 0:15:04.360 sports team beat up the rival cross town sports team. 0:15:04.480 --> 0:15:08.480 Like that is as old as America itself, right, So, 0:15:08.480 --> 0:15:10.200 so many of the best sports and games out in 0:15:10.240 --> 0:15:12.840 the world today are ones that involve playing against our 0:15:12.880 --> 0:15:15.840 beating an opponent. Anytime you can bring some competition in 0:15:15.920 --> 0:15:18.080 the picture, things are bound to get more fun. Even 0:15:18.120 --> 0:15:20.920 if you're not playing directly against a friend, you're trying 0:15:20.960 --> 0:15:23.520 to beat the final boss, the final level, You're trying 0:15:23.560 --> 0:15:26.160 to put a nail in the coffin of that game. 0:15:26.200 --> 0:15:27.600 You're trying to be done with it, and I want 0:15:27.600 --> 0:15:30.280 to beat that game exactly. Have those braggen rights, right, 0:15:30.480 --> 0:15:32.080 And so Matt. Let me give you a quick example. 0:15:32.120 --> 0:15:35.360 So my my boss, Christa, she had this spin class 0:15:35.400 --> 0:15:38.040 birthday party and I brought my bike to work, so 0:15:38.080 --> 0:15:39.560 I was like, cool, it's gonna be fun. I don't 0:15:39.600 --> 0:15:41.640 really do spin class, never done it before actually until 0:15:41.640 --> 0:15:44.040 this party. But I ride to work every day some boss, 0:15:44.320 --> 0:15:46.600 So we'll see how this goes. I will say I 0:15:46.680 --> 0:15:48.720 was not up to her level because she's like a 0:15:48.720 --> 0:15:51.960 spin class master. But different than running a bike. It 0:15:52.080 --> 0:15:54.600 is different. It is different. Yeah, I mean it's they're 0:15:54.680 --> 0:15:56.760 definitely obviously you're using some of your hands instead of 0:15:56.800 --> 0:15:59.320 your legs. Yeah, exactly, That's what I was doing when 0:15:59.320 --> 0:16:01.680 I was down on all four been doggy paddle class. 0:16:01.840 --> 0:16:04.680 Oh you didn't tell me that, but like they had 0:16:04.920 --> 0:16:08.320 this pumped up music and instructors that were super excited 0:16:08.440 --> 0:16:11.600 and getting us motivated. And then also on top of that, 0:16:11.800 --> 0:16:14.640 the thing for me that had the leaderboard, and the 0:16:14.760 --> 0:16:18.040 leaderboard was what motivated me to go even harder. So 0:16:18.120 --> 0:16:20.920 sometimes on my on my bike to work or home, 0:16:21.360 --> 0:16:23.080 I'll take it. I'll take it nice and leisurely, like 0:16:23.120 --> 0:16:26.560 I won't go super hard because who's it benefiting if 0:16:26.600 --> 0:16:29.040 I go harder? It's just me right, it's it's it's 0:16:29.040 --> 0:16:31.680 my health. It's good for me. But ultimately I'm not 0:16:31.680 --> 0:16:34.200 competing against anyone. But when I had that leaderboard in 0:16:34.200 --> 0:16:36.080 front of me, man, it made me like go twice 0:16:36.120 --> 0:16:38.920 as hard. I saw people were rising and falling second 0:16:38.920 --> 0:16:40.880 by second, and so you're like, oh, man, I just 0:16:40.920 --> 0:16:43.760 dropped down at number six or seven, and I want 0:16:43.760 --> 0:16:46.720 to be top five. So I started going harder and harder. 0:16:46.960 --> 0:16:50.560 And so obviously it's different riding a spin class bike 0:16:50.600 --> 0:16:53.120 and and competing with other people on the leaderboard versus 0:16:53.160 --> 0:16:55.720 just my normal ride into work. Ultimately, I think I 0:16:55.760 --> 0:16:57.400 like my ride into work a little bit better. Like 0:16:57.800 --> 0:17:00.280 but that is one of those things that off times 0:17:00.280 --> 0:17:02.520 we're drawn to when it comes to games. Is that 0:17:02.800 --> 0:17:05.159 high level of competition that we can experience. Sure, Well, 0:17:05.200 --> 0:17:07.600 quick question to Crystal win because it was her birthday party, right, 0:17:07.640 --> 0:17:09.280 we should have let her win. I don't remember. I 0:17:09.320 --> 0:17:12.240 don't remember who wanted. Months back. I don't think she wanted, 0:17:12.240 --> 0:17:14.639 but I think she's like top three, she's really good. Nice. 0:17:14.840 --> 0:17:17.440 I've never done that. Maybe I will someday. Well, competition, 0:17:17.560 --> 0:17:19.720 right in your example, it's very clear what the point 0:17:19.720 --> 0:17:21.920 of that class was like they've got the leaderboard up there. 0:17:22.200 --> 0:17:23.520 You want to win, You want to you want to 0:17:23.520 --> 0:17:25.200 be at the top of the heap. When it comes 0:17:25.240 --> 0:17:29.239 to our money, the point isn't always super clear and straightforward, right, 0:17:29.440 --> 0:17:31.240 And so because of that, I think we tend to 0:17:31.320 --> 0:17:34.480 default to what comes easiest and the most natural to us, 0:17:34.880 --> 0:17:37.480 and that's to compete with those around you, right, like 0:17:37.560 --> 0:17:39.320 with your friends and co workers. Just like you do 0:17:39.640 --> 0:17:41.520 with any sort of game that you play or any 0:17:41.520 --> 0:17:44.320 sort of competition that you enter your you typically compete 0:17:44.359 --> 0:17:46.600 against other people. When you think about it, I think 0:17:46.640 --> 0:17:49.920 this can be a really unhealthy view of competition when 0:17:50.000 --> 0:17:52.160 you are looking at it through the lens of your 0:17:52.160 --> 0:17:54.960 personal finances, right when you're thinking about your money. If 0:17:54.960 --> 0:17:57.080 you're looking at it that way, if it's always the competition, 0:17:57.359 --> 0:17:59.359 this can lead to sort of that keeping up with 0:17:59.440 --> 0:18:02.040 the Joneses mentality of spending way more than you should. 0:18:02.359 --> 0:18:04.600 With this view, and if you kind of approach your 0:18:04.600 --> 0:18:07.400 personal finances with that in mind, you're sort of entering 0:18:07.400 --> 0:18:10.199 the arena with that scarcity mindset, right jel Like if 0:18:10.280 --> 0:18:13.560 you hear people talking about like not focusing on getting 0:18:13.560 --> 0:18:15.240 your slize of the pie, but let's work on growing 0:18:15.280 --> 0:18:17.679 the pie. And I think that's completely true when it 0:18:17.680 --> 0:18:19.879 comes to our money. When it comes to our personal 0:18:19.920 --> 0:18:23.000