WEBVTT - Who killed JFK? 0:00:00.200 --> 0:00:04.800 Brought to you by the all New Toyota Corolla. Welcome 0:00:04.840 --> 0:00:14.360 to you Stuff you should know Fromdhouse Stuff Works dot Com. Hey, 0:00:14.400 --> 0:00:18.119 and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark, There's Charles W. 0:00:18.360 --> 0:00:23.239 Chuck Bryant, and very appropriately for this one, we have 0:00:23.360 --> 0:00:26.240 our buddy Matt, who's guest producing because he knows how 0:00:26.280 --> 0:00:28.760 to do that kind of thing in addition to his 0:00:28.880 --> 0:00:32.000 awesome show stuff they don't want to know, which he 0:00:32.080 --> 0:00:34.320 does with our other friend Ben. And uh, it's it 0:00:34.400 --> 0:00:38.840 covers conspiracy theories. And we are podcasting on who killed 0:00:38.920 --> 0:00:45.000 JFK the day before the anniversary of that Fateful Day anniversary, 0:00:45.080 --> 0:00:50.080 right fiftieth anniversary November nine in Dallas. And so you 0:00:50.200 --> 0:00:52.639 made a joke that Matt was just gonna be over 0:00:52.680 --> 0:00:56.920 there the whole time going shia. Really uh huh. Yeah, 0:00:56.920 --> 0:01:00.600 it wasn't a mob. Yeah, three tramps whatever. I like 0:01:00.640 --> 0:01:03.400 the three trans want It's it's ridiculous, but it's my 0:01:03.440 --> 0:01:05.640 favorite one. Yeah, I got some good stuff on that 0:01:06.920 --> 0:01:10.400 um In two thousand three, Josh An ABC News poll 0:01:10.480 --> 0:01:14.440 came out ten years ago, seventy of Americans believe the 0:01:14.440 --> 0:01:17.240 assassination of John F. Kennedy was part of a broader plot. 0:01:17.560 --> 0:01:23.720 What percentage believe that and believe that Lee Harvey Oswald 0:01:23.760 --> 0:01:27.160 acted alone. Well, so it's the thing. It's it will 0:01:27.200 --> 0:01:30.320 not die. No, it won't. It never will, I don't think. Well, 0:01:30.360 --> 0:01:33.039 it's very much entrenched in popular culture as well too, 0:01:33.120 --> 0:01:38.280 Like even it's become a parody of itself as well. Yeah, 0:01:38.400 --> 0:01:41.200 you know, was just the idea that there's this outstanding 0:01:41.280 --> 0:01:44.160 question that will never be put to rest. Yeah, Like 0:01:45.400 --> 0:01:48.320 Lone Gunmen and Grassy Knoll, like all these are almost 0:01:48.400 --> 0:01:52.600 like buzz terms. Now, Yeah, the Lone Gunmen, they made 0:01:52.600 --> 0:01:54.920 an appearance in the X Files, they were recurring characters. 0:01:55.280 --> 0:01:59.440 Trio of Guys, Uh and the Misfits have a song 0:01:59.520 --> 0:02:03.840 about the afk assassination. Um magic Bullet but there's a 0:02:03.840 --> 0:02:09.760 band called Magic Bullets. There's all sorts of stuff. Um, 0:02:09.919 --> 0:02:14.320 So let's get into this because I think our colleague 0:02:14.360 --> 0:02:17.680 Jonathan's Tricklin of tech Stuff did a really good job 0:02:17.720 --> 0:02:22.000 of like handling what could have easily been like a 0:02:22.000 --> 0:02:27.119 fifty page quagmire. And he basically says like, but here's 0:02:27.160 --> 0:02:30.640 all the facts, and this is why the what's on 0:02:30.680 --> 0:02:35.440 the surface is probably the likeliest thing to happen and happened. 0:02:35.560 --> 0:02:37.440 We should see U a little bit here. There are 0:02:37.760 --> 0:02:43.520 hundreds of books written about various conspiracies, uh conspiracy theories 0:02:43.639 --> 0:02:47.840 on the JFK assassination, and we are we don't have 0:02:48.000 --> 0:02:51.160 like eighteen episodes to dedicate to this, so this will 0:02:51.200 --> 0:02:54.560 be a skimming of the topic. UM. I don't want 0:02:54.600 --> 0:02:56.239 anyone to be like, oh, Josh and Chuck are gonna 0:02:56.240 --> 0:02:59.200 get down the bottom of this, like people, that's some 0:02:59.240 --> 0:03:02.720 people's life's were, you know, dedicated to this? Yeah. I mean, 0:03:02.760 --> 0:03:06.400 if we're anything, we're dilettants. Every week we go from 0:03:06.400 --> 0:03:09.880 one subject to the next. That is true. So I 0:03:09.919 --> 0:03:13.120 guess let's begin at the beginning, just to get it 0:03:13.160 --> 0:03:16.520 all out on the table. Okay, all right, Okay, so Chucky. 0:03:17.320 --> 0:03:23.160 On November eighth, nineteen sixty three, UM, the Secret Service 0:03:24.320 --> 0:03:29.640 found the proposed route for the president Presidential Murtorcaide's visit 0:03:29.680 --> 0:03:33.360 to Dallas. And there was a reason the president was 0:03:33.400 --> 0:03:38.320 coming to Dallas. It was a very good reason. And UM, 0:03:38.480 --> 0:03:40.920 this is why he was in Texas, why he was 0:03:41.240 --> 0:03:45.960 trying to basically sort of unite the Democratic Party. Um, 0:03:46.000 --> 0:03:50.080 he was meeting with with his vice president and the 0:03:50.200 --> 0:03:53.200 governor of Texas, and there was some bickering going on 0:03:53.240 --> 0:03:55.200 within the party and he basically wanted to He's trying 0:03:55.200 --> 0:03:57.080 to get reelected, is what he was doing, right, But 0:03:57.160 --> 0:03:58.960 that was a big part of it. But it is true. 0:03:59.000 --> 0:04:04.120 Governor Connelly Um and Senator Richard Yarborough were publicly feuding. 0:04:04.960 --> 0:04:08.720 Um and they're both Democrats, so basically their great father 0:04:08.960 --> 0:04:11.840 was going to come and make peace with them among 0:04:11.920 --> 0:04:16.120 them publicly tour the state of Texas to help him 0:04:16.120 --> 0:04:18.880 self get reelected, but also to show Texas like, hey, 0:04:18.920 --> 0:04:22.640 the Texas Democrats are all family. Here. Family fights sometimes, 0:04:22.640 --> 0:04:24.479 but we're still all family and we still have the 0:04:24.520 --> 0:04:27.320 same grand vision. I know, I'm a Catholic from New England, 0:04:27.760 --> 0:04:33.520 but we're all the same. It me nine Texan. Uh so, okay, 0:04:33.560 --> 0:04:35.800 where are we? They find out the route from love 0:04:35.920 --> 0:04:42.400 Field to um Daly Plaza. They publicize that in the newspapers. 0:04:43.000 --> 0:04:45.760 Everyone knew about it because you know people, they wanted 0:04:45.800 --> 0:04:48.600 people to come out and wave like they did on 0:04:48.720 --> 0:04:52.360 November nine. The route was published in the papers and 0:04:52.360 --> 0:04:58.280 the published one Yes. And then on November twenty ninety three, 0:04:58.279 --> 0:05:01.440 that fateful day, Air Force one lands at love Field 0:05:01.520 --> 0:05:04.159 the President gets in his presidential limousine and they started 0:05:04.200 --> 0:05:08.400 making their way toward Deeley Plaza, along with Governor Connelly 0:05:08.400 --> 0:05:10.480 and his wife and of course Jackie and then a 0:05:10.520 --> 0:05:12.880 couple of secret service dudes. That's in the one car. 0:05:13.200 --> 0:05:16.320 In a car behind them is lb J Senator Yarborough 0:05:16.360 --> 0:05:20.040 and some other secret service guys. Right, that's right. So 0:05:20.080 --> 0:05:23.880 they're apparently as they were headed toward Deely Plausa, they 0:05:23.880 --> 0:05:27.760 got delayed because um, Kennedy stopped and uh kind of 0:05:27.800 --> 0:05:30.640 soaked up the people waving and cheering and all that 0:05:30.720 --> 0:05:34.680 and gave gave some back to him. Yeah, and so 0:05:34.800 --> 0:05:38.240 they were a little bit delayed, um getting to Deely Plaza. 0:05:38.320 --> 0:05:41.560 But when they did, at about twelve thirty, as they 0:05:41.600 --> 0:05:45.000 were arriving in the presidential motorcade, a shot rang out 0:05:46.279 --> 0:05:51.360 and then there was two more shots at least. Yeah, 0:05:51.440 --> 0:05:55.120 and uh with the second shot, they think the president 0:05:55.680 --> 0:06:00.160 he threw his hands up to his neck and Jackie 0:06:00.320 --> 0:06:03.720 leaned over to kind of like say what's going on, 0:06:04.160 --> 0:06:08.440 and then all of a sudden, the back right side 0:06:08.640 --> 0:06:12.960 of the President's head blew off. Yes, it is very graphic. 0:06:13.080 --> 0:06:17.560 If you see the slowed down enhanced Zapruder film on 0:06:17.600 --> 0:06:21.760 YouTube today. Very affecting too. It's really sad. Yeah, it's 0:06:22.680 --> 0:06:25.400 terribly sad. And this was not even a part of 0:06:25.400 --> 0:06:28.640 our generation. Like this kind of stuff still makes people 0:06:28.680 --> 0:06:31.880 like our parents breakdown sometimes, you know. So that was 0:06:32.520 --> 0:06:35.440 thirty Within about anywhere between four and eight seconds, at 0:06:35.480 --> 0:06:39.040 least three shots were fired, one missed probably the second 0:06:39.040 --> 0:06:41.000 and third one hit the president first in the back 0:06:41.000 --> 0:06:44.280 of the neck, exited his throat, and the third one 0:06:45.880 --> 0:06:48.120 blew his head off. Yeah, let's talk about the that 0:06:48.200 --> 0:06:50.800 magic bullet since we should go ahead and clear that up. 0:06:51.560 --> 0:06:54.200 H it hit I guess this is a second bullet 0:06:54.240 --> 0:06:57.280 that passed through his throat. It went on to hit 0:06:57.360 --> 0:07:01.320 Governor Connelly in the back, but in his armpit. Yeah, 0:07:01.360 --> 0:07:04.080 below the right armpit. Um exited below the right nipple. 0:07:04.839 --> 0:07:07.000 Um then hit his wrist that was in his lap, 0:07:07.760 --> 0:07:10.720 and then continue through the wrist through his left thigh. 0:07:10.840 --> 0:07:12.520 And that's why they call it the magic bullet. And 0:07:12.520 --> 0:07:15.200 if you've seen Oliver Stone's movie, they kind of, you know, 0:07:16.520 --> 0:07:18.960 m make fun of it in court like that is 0:07:18.960 --> 0:07:21.680 one magic bullet. That's where it got the name back 0:07:21.720 --> 0:07:25.920 into the left back into the left Remember the Seinfeld thing, 0:07:26.440 --> 0:07:30.920 yeah with the spit with Keith hernandez. Um. But and 0:07:30.960 --> 0:07:33.640 I remember my brother in law, the Marine, explaining to 0:07:33.680 --> 0:07:36.760 me years ago that bullets tumble and can do some 0:07:36.840 --> 0:07:40.280 really crazy things, like he's seen it happen on firing 0:07:40.360 --> 0:07:43.440 ranges and and pus. Also, this is a very very 0:07:43.480 --> 0:07:47.280 powerful bullet. Yeah. It was a six point five millimeter bullet, 0:07:47.320 --> 0:07:52.360 which is basically like a little um howits her shell? Yeah, 0:07:52.680 --> 0:07:56.280 it's huge and it travels very quickly. Yeah, and um, 0:07:56.320 --> 0:07:59.360 they have done test that, even though it seems unlikely, 0:07:59.400 --> 0:08:02.200 that show that it is possible that a bullet can 0:08:02.400 --> 0:08:04.480 change directions and do kind of crazy things once it 0:08:04.480 --> 0:08:08.880 starts hitting bone and other things. Yeah. So um that was, 0:08:08.920 --> 0:08:13.119 like you said, the second bullet most likely. Um, Within 0:08:13.240 --> 0:08:16.840 just a few seconds after the first shot, Kennedy is 0:08:16.920 --> 0:08:22.320 lying there, um motionless. Jackie's like reaching back across the 0:08:22.360 --> 0:08:24.640 trunk of the car. Yeah, trying to get help from 0:08:24.680 --> 0:08:27.920 a secret Service agent who I believe jumps into the car. Yeah. 0:08:27.960 --> 0:08:31.720 Well actually they they think that she was picked up 0:08:31.720 --> 0:08:36.440 part of his brain tissue. Okay, I heard that before too. Yeah, 0:08:36.480 --> 0:08:38.120 I looked into that today, but I was watching the 0:08:38.200 --> 0:08:40.440 repruter film and it looks it looked to me like 0:08:40.480 --> 0:08:42.680 she was reaching back like help. But I've heard that 0:08:42.720 --> 0:08:46.880 before as well. Well. Apparently she was quoted um by 0:08:46.920 --> 0:08:49.840 I think Connolly's wife and one other person at the 0:08:49.840 --> 0:08:53.680 time of saying he's dead and look, I have I 0:08:53.720 --> 0:08:58.200 have his brain in my hand. Um. She I read 0:08:58.320 --> 0:09:00.960 her testimony for the Warran Commission and she says she 0:09:01.000 --> 0:09:04.520 didn't even remember any of that. But whether or not 0:09:04.559 --> 0:09:06.760 that's true, it's awful. So when she was trying to 0:09:06.800 --> 0:09:09.880 hold his head together on the way to the hospital, Yeah, 0:09:10.080 --> 0:09:13.200 So in the car behind them, uh, a Secret Service 0:09:13.200 --> 0:09:17.160 agent pounces on LBJ and like throws him onto the 0:09:17.200 --> 0:09:20.000 seat and lays on top of him. Um. I think 0:09:20.000 --> 0:09:22.760 his name is Rufus young Blood, the CIA or the 0:09:22.840 --> 0:09:25.400 Secret Service agent. The motor kid just takes off to 0:09:25.440 --> 0:09:32.280 the hospital park Memorial Parkland Parkland Memorial and um again, 0:09:32.559 --> 0:09:35.559 the the motor kid inner dally Plase at twelve thirty. 0:09:35.679 --> 0:09:38.839 By one pm, the President has been pronounced dead at 0:09:38.880 --> 0:09:41.680 Parkland Memorial Hospital in Dallas. It was just a few 0:09:41.679 --> 0:09:46.200 miles away. Um, so that was one pm. That was 0:09:46.240 --> 0:09:49.000 one pm. Um, I guess we should talk about the 0:09:49.000 --> 0:09:52.120 grassy Knoll real quick because a lot of people, um 0:09:52.200 --> 0:09:55.160 have said, you know, a shot have There were a 0:09:55.160 --> 0:09:58.199 lot of misleading and conflicting accounts, which is where a 0:09:58.240 --> 0:10:03.319 lot of the trouble started. I witnesses not collaborating stories. Uh. 0:10:03.400 --> 0:10:05.720 The acoustics at Dealey Plaza were funky because of all 0:10:05.720 --> 0:10:08.680 the buildings and it's three side buildings and then one 0:10:08.720 --> 0:10:12.040 side like Grassy Knoll. Basically yeah, so like, where did 0:10:12.040 --> 0:10:14.400 the shot come from? I thought it came from over here. 0:10:14.520 --> 0:10:18.960 From the sounds, um, it was basically pretty tough to pinpoint. 0:10:19.440 --> 0:10:21.640 And the Grassy Knoll there was a police officer named 0:10:21.679 --> 0:10:24.560 Clyde hey Good that there are pictures of him, you know, 0:10:24.679 --> 0:10:27.880 running towards the Grassy Knoll, and a lot of folks thought, hey, 0:10:27.920 --> 0:10:30.840 he's running like towards a suspect, when in fact, he 0:10:30.840 --> 0:10:35.040 was running toward another police officer to you know, say, hey, 0:10:35.559 --> 0:10:37.840 what should we do? I guess? So the I guess. 0:10:37.920 --> 0:10:40.640 The way it's been explained away over the years is 0:10:40.720 --> 0:10:44.360 the the acoustics and the fact that that cop was 0:10:44.440 --> 0:10:46.600 running towards the Grassy Knoll has made some people think 0:10:46.600 --> 0:10:49.360 that there was more than one shooter, and another shooter 0:10:49.480 --> 0:10:51.520 was on the grassy knoll. That's right. The official line 0:10:51.600 --> 0:10:54.360 is that that's not the case, though, that's right. Um, 0:10:54.440 --> 0:10:58.120 so one PM, the president's pronounced dead. At two thirty eight, 0:10:58.679 --> 0:11:06.160 UM Johnson, Jackie Kennedy, UH, Johnson's staff, pretty much everybody 0:11:06.240 --> 0:11:09.120 was back on Air Force one and UM they called 0:11:09.120 --> 0:11:11.560 Bobby Kennedy to ask what to do and to tell 0:11:11.640 --> 0:11:14.760 him what had happened. And Bobby Kennedy said, you need 0:11:14.800 --> 0:11:16.960 to swear Johnson and before you guys leave the ground. 0:11:17.520 --> 0:11:20.800 So they found a judge, brought her on board, and 0:11:20.920 --> 0:11:24.240 she swore Johnson in as president, and then they took 0:11:24.280 --> 0:11:27.120 off and flew back to Washington. Very famous photo, yeah, 0:11:27.160 --> 0:11:28.959 with him being sworn in on board Air Force one, 0:11:29.160 --> 0:11:32.480 right with Jackie on NASA's or Jackie Kennedy's face. Just 0:11:32.559 --> 0:11:36.640 like the fact that she was able to stand is 0:11:36.720 --> 0:11:40.280 pretty amazing. Apparently they turned her in such a way 0:11:40.320 --> 0:11:44.400 so that the blood stains were an apparent in the photograph. Man, 0:11:45.040 --> 0:11:46.480 I don't know if it was Air Force one yet 0:11:46.520 --> 0:11:52.840 it was. UM, alright, so where are we? Uh? Four 0:11:52.840 --> 0:11:57.680 minutes after the shooting, Dallas police uh looked at the 0:11:57.960 --> 0:12:01.920 Texas School Book Depository building and said, hey, that might 0:12:01.920 --> 0:12:03.840 have been where this came from. It's a pretty prime 0:12:03.880 --> 0:12:06.760 location for a sniper. And there was an eyewitness named 0:12:06.760 --> 0:12:10.280 Howard Brennan who saw a figure in the window and 0:12:10.440 --> 0:12:13.880 gave a description which fit Lee Harvey Oswald. So this 0:12:14.040 --> 0:12:16.120 this one dude actually saw him in the window on 0:12:16.160 --> 0:12:18.680 the sixth floor. Pretty believable that you could see someone 0:12:18.720 --> 0:12:21.320 from that range. The guy said, I knew it was 0:12:21.360 --> 0:12:25.640 Oswald all along. So there was a cop that was 0:12:25.679 --> 0:12:28.800 in the book depository within two minutes of the shooting. Yeah, 0:12:28.800 --> 0:12:31.199 Marian Baker was kind of took the initiative to go 0:12:31.200 --> 0:12:32.640 ahead and get in there. So we went in there 0:12:32.679 --> 0:12:36.360 and he met up with the superintendent of the building, 0:12:36.400 --> 0:12:39.200 a guy named Truly, and they started um walking up 0:12:39.240 --> 0:12:41.520 the steps and at the second floor they came upon 0:12:42.320 --> 0:12:46.440 Lee Harvey Oswald who was leaving. He was leaving. Truly 0:12:46.559 --> 0:12:49.360 vouched for Oswald, and Oswald was allowed to leave. And 0:12:49.360 --> 0:12:52.160 the reason Truly vouched for Oswald's because just a couple 0:12:52.200 --> 0:12:55.600 of weeks before, about a month before, Oswald had gotten 0:12:55.640 --> 0:12:59.080 a job at that book depository, so he checked out 0:12:59.080 --> 0:13:02.520 as far as Truly was concerned. The officer who was 0:13:02.600 --> 0:13:05.600 with Truly said, well, okay, and they kept looking and 0:13:05.720 --> 0:13:08.800 a few minutes after that, lieutenant showed up and took 0:13:08.840 --> 0:13:11.000 over the crime scene and they started scouring the building 0:13:11.000 --> 0:13:13.199 and on the sixth floor they found the sniper's nest 0:13:13.800 --> 0:13:19.080 that's right with UM three empty cartridges and the gun 0:13:20.040 --> 0:13:24.959 UH telescopic rifle, UH telescopic site, and a bolt action rifle. 0:13:25.160 --> 0:13:29.720 And it was pretty much a no brainer at that point, 0:13:30.280 --> 0:13:31.839 or at least on the surface. This is where it 0:13:31.880 --> 0:13:37.040 came from, right, So, um, after Oswald left his uh 0:13:37.240 --> 0:13:40.880 left the book depository, he went to um the place 0:13:40.920 --> 0:13:42.560 where he was running a room, the house where he's 0:13:42.600 --> 0:13:45.280 running a room, and grabbed a pistol. And as he's 0:13:45.320 --> 0:13:47.520 walking along and this is about the same time that 0:13:47.600 --> 0:13:51.280 Kennedy's being pronounced dead, he's walking along the street, he 0:13:51.520 --> 0:13:56.320 Um encountered a cop named J. D. Tippett, and apparently 0:13:56.360 --> 0:13:59.680 Oswald just opened fire on this cop, shot him four times, 0:13:59.760 --> 0:14:03.079 killed him instantly. Yeah. Well, he was investigating Oswald because 0:14:03.120 --> 0:14:05.160 the the A p B had already come through with 0:14:05.240 --> 0:14:08.280 the description of Oswald, and he was like, well, this 0:14:08.320 --> 0:14:11.560 guy fits that description. Let me talk to him. And 0:14:11.720 --> 0:14:13.280 it didn't take long though I don't think there was 0:14:13.360 --> 0:14:16.839 much of a discussion before Oswald shot him and killed him. 0:14:16.880 --> 0:14:19.880 And um, actually, when Oswald was finally apprehended, it was 0:14:19.920 --> 0:14:22.560 for the murder of the cop. They they didn't know 0:14:22.640 --> 0:14:24.960 he had anything to do with Kennedy at the time. Yeah, yeah, 0:14:24.960 --> 0:14:29.360 at the time. Uh, he ducked into a theater, the 0:14:29.400 --> 0:14:33.840 Texas Theater, into the movie War as Hell, And I 0:14:33.880 --> 0:14:36.040 think he snuck in, And that's why they called the 0:14:36.040 --> 0:14:38.480 cops because they're like, hey, someone stuck in the theater. 0:14:39.240 --> 0:14:40.600 So he would have had a bought a ticket. He 0:14:40.680 --> 0:14:42.720 might not have ever been caught. You never know. You 0:14:42.720 --> 0:14:45.800 know what's interesting about that, there's all these parallels between 0:14:45.840 --> 0:14:49.800 the Lincoln assassination and the Kennedy assassination. Um, some are untrue, 0:14:49.840 --> 0:14:51.680 some are just ridiculous. But one of them was that 0:14:52.000 --> 0:14:54.600 John Wilkes Booth killed Lincoln in a theater and went 0:14:54.640 --> 0:14:58.120 and hit out in a warehouse, and Lee Harvey Oswald 0:14:58.160 --> 0:15:01.040 killed Kennedy from where our house and went and hit 0:15:01.080 --> 0:15:03.040 out in a theater where he was caught. That's a 0:15:03.040 --> 0:15:06.720 pretty good one. I like that one. Um. So he 0:15:06.760 --> 0:15:09.400 was apprehended in the theater and reportedly said, well, it's 0:15:09.400 --> 0:15:13.080 all over now. But he also said something interesting at 0:15:13.080 --> 0:15:16.520 one point to the media I'm a patsy, which has 0:15:16.560 --> 0:15:20.600 fueled speculation over the years that, uh, well, we'll get 0:15:20.640 --> 0:15:24.280 into the different theories before we go any further. Get this, 0:15:25.400 --> 0:15:29.720 the president of the United States of America has just 0:15:30.240 --> 0:15:35.560 been shot in front of a crowd in Dallas. That's right. 0:15:36.320 --> 0:15:41.360 That's huge, that's enormous. That's what's going on right now. 0:15:41.440 --> 0:15:43.920 And there's a man hunt for this guy who's just 0:15:43.960 --> 0:15:47.920 been caught for killing a cop. Yeah, so people don't 0:15:47.920 --> 0:15:50.480 know that the president's killer has just been caught as well. 0:15:50.560 --> 0:15:53.720 That's right. So this is a it's a pretty emotional time. Uh, 0:15:53.760 --> 0:15:56.680 and let's talk about Oswald himself. But first, um, let's 0:15:56.680 --> 0:15:58.560 do a message break and we'll talk about Oswald when 0:15:58.600 --> 0:16:07.000 we come back. A h alright, So here's a little 0:16:07.000 --> 0:16:12.360 bit about Lee Harvey Oswald. He was a mixed up guy. Um, 0:16:12.400 --> 0:16:14.720 he was sort of an outcast, sort of didn't really 0:16:14.720 --> 0:16:18.280 fit in. He was born in Um his father died 0:16:18.320 --> 0:16:21.720 two months before he was born, which I think, you know, 0:16:21.840 --> 0:16:24.520 probably has a lot to do with emotional scarring later 0:16:24.560 --> 0:16:27.760 on and maybe being a mixed up kid. Uh. He 0:16:27.840 --> 0:16:29.880 was in an orphanage for a little while with an 0:16:29.880 --> 0:16:32.360 older brother and half brother, but his mother was able 0:16:32.400 --> 0:16:34.880 to get him back out of that orphanage uh and 0:16:36.240 --> 0:16:39.760 raised them age five five when he got taken on 0:16:39.840 --> 0:16:42.400 the orphanage, which was enough years to also do some 0:16:42.560 --> 0:16:47.240 damage psychologically. I think that probably set the theme because 0:16:47.240 --> 0:16:50.600 I read a little bit about what you know, contemporary 0:16:50.640 --> 0:16:55.360 reports of him growing up concluded his problem was and 0:16:55.360 --> 0:16:58.040 that it was. One social worker said that he believed 0:16:58.040 --> 0:17:00.840 his mother doesn't give a damn about him, uh so 0:17:01.080 --> 0:17:03.320 uh and that somebody else said that they've never met 0:17:03.320 --> 0:17:07.160 a kid more emotionally starved than this guy. Uh So. 0:17:07.240 --> 0:17:09.640 I'm quite sure that being left it in an orphanage, 0:17:09.680 --> 0:17:12.760 even being picked back up after a while it was, 0:17:12.800 --> 0:17:15.560 probably did have a pretty big effect on him on 0:17:15.760 --> 0:17:18.120 his development and how he viewed his mother. Well. Yeah, 0:17:18.119 --> 0:17:20.159 and when you look at what he did for the 0:17:20.200 --> 0:17:23.200 rest of his life, um, it seems like he was 0:17:23.240 --> 0:17:27.520 always looking for a new family quote unquote, um, whether 0:17:27.560 --> 0:17:31.840 it was the Marxist or the Communists, or Cuba or Russia. Like, 0:17:32.320 --> 0:17:34.159 it seems like he never and it's kind of a 0:17:34.800 --> 0:17:37.720 it's like one oh one, you know, he was looking 0:17:37.800 --> 0:17:41.800 to fit in somehow somewhere with somebody, but at the 0:17:41.800 --> 0:17:44.760 same time, it was always on the fringe of wherever 0:17:44.800 --> 0:17:47.080 he was at. Yah, you know what I mean, Like 0:17:47.320 --> 0:17:49.320 he's never happy with where he was. He wanted to 0:17:49.359 --> 0:17:53.040 fit into whatever was counter what he was doing or 0:17:53.119 --> 0:17:56.240 with the status quo of where he was right. So 0:17:56.320 --> 0:17:58.480 at sixteen he drops out of school and tries to 0:17:58.560 --> 0:18:01.919 join the Marine Corps. Um he was too young, so 0:18:01.960 --> 0:18:05.280 they said come back later. He wrote the Socialist Party 0:18:05.320 --> 0:18:08.360 when he was Socialist Party of America when he was seventeen, 0:18:08.840 --> 0:18:11.400 to say, hey, I'm weigh into Marxism and like, can 0:18:11.440 --> 0:18:13.320 I come join your club? I guess at the very 0:18:13.400 --> 0:18:16.440 least we send me a free button. Uh. And then 0:18:16.480 --> 0:18:18.520 at seventeen he reapplied to the Marine Corps and he 0:18:18.560 --> 0:18:20.879 was old enough at that point. And turns out he 0:18:20.880 --> 0:18:26.000 had quite an act for shooting guns. He's a sharp 0:18:26.000 --> 0:18:29.600 shooter during boot camp, but then during the actual ranking 0:18:29.680 --> 0:18:33.160 testing only rated as a marksman, which is still really good. Yeah, 0:18:33.240 --> 0:18:35.919 just below sharp shoot the sharp shooter the highest or 0:18:35.960 --> 0:18:38.920 is that the dead eyes the highest level. I think 0:18:38.920 --> 0:18:42.120 sharp shooters size. But at the same time, even while 0:18:42.119 --> 0:18:45.520 he was a marine, a Marine marksman, he um he 0:18:45.600 --> 0:18:50.920 taught himself Russian. He studied about the Soviet Union and communism. 0:18:50.960 --> 0:18:53.080 And this is during the Cold War. This is like 0:18:53.160 --> 0:18:56.440 during the most paranoid finger pointing part of the Cold War. 0:18:57.160 --> 0:19:00.440 But Oswald's in the Marines, like teaching himself Russian and everything, 0:19:00.560 --> 0:19:02.879 see what I mean, like a confused guy. Yeah, but 0:19:02.920 --> 0:19:05.119 even still like it's just it's so strange to me 0:19:05.640 --> 0:19:10.280 learning about his experience that he was relatively left alone 0:19:11.119 --> 0:19:16.560 while expressing pretty publicly this interest in the Soviet Union 0:19:16.600 --> 0:19:19.880 and communism during the peak of the Cold War. It's 0:19:19.920 --> 0:19:22.560 just I thought, if you had if you even wore 0:19:22.600 --> 0:19:26.040 the color red, people like communists get him. But apparently 0:19:26.560 --> 0:19:29.359 you could just hide him plain sight or admire the 0:19:29.440 --> 0:19:32.720 Soviet Union plain sight. Well, he eventually would find himself 0:19:32.720 --> 0:19:36.119 on a watch list because he went to Russia um 0:19:36.200 --> 0:19:40.399 under um he obtained a passport falsely with an application 0:19:40.480 --> 0:19:44.760 to a college in Switzerland and applied got to Moscow, 0:19:44.840 --> 0:19:48.679 applied for citizenship there and they were like yet, and 0:19:48.720 --> 0:19:50.439 so he he goes, oh, yeah, if you know, I mean, 0:19:50.480 --> 0:19:52.920 I'm gonna kill myself. He basically did the same day 0:19:52.960 --> 0:19:56.200 he was rejected by Russia. He slit his wrist and 0:19:56.560 --> 0:20:00.000 the warmhearted Soviets were like, well, okay, you can stay 0:20:00.040 --> 0:20:03.320 a young man. I thought that was interesting. Yeah, that's 0:20:03.359 --> 0:20:09.840 what allowed him to stay. Ye, like, yeah, that's just weird. Yeah, 0:20:10.000 --> 0:20:13.480 is so he said, I don't want to be Um. Well, 0:20:13.560 --> 0:20:16.720 he he did not officially announce his citizenship in America, 0:20:16.760 --> 0:20:20.520 although he expressed interest in doing so. Yeah, he kind 0:20:20.520 --> 0:20:22.680 of mouthed off about it, but never actually did it. 0:20:22.880 --> 0:20:25.320 That's right. Uh. In Russia he fell in love with 0:20:25.320 --> 0:20:30.040 a lady named Marina Prusakova. And you're not going to 0:20:30.080 --> 0:20:36.159 try our middle name nicola Venna nice Nikolavna. Yeah, I 0:20:36.200 --> 0:20:38.840 think that's right. And um, basically he was like, you know, 0:20:38.840 --> 0:20:40.600 we should probably go back to the United States because 0:20:40.960 --> 0:20:45.080 it turns out Russia sucks. These breadlines I weren't expecting 0:20:45.119 --> 0:20:48.280 them to be so long. Yeah, it said he'd become disenchanted. 0:20:48.320 --> 0:20:50.760 I think that's a nice way of saying that Russia sucked. Right, 0:20:50.800 --> 0:20:53.880 So he says, Hey, I know a place where you're 0:20:53.920 --> 0:20:58.480 gonna love. It's called Texas. Let's move back there. Uh, 0:20:59.160 --> 0:21:01.680 just forget the fact that you don't speak any English. 0:21:01.760 --> 0:21:04.560 You don't know anybody in Texas. Everybody back in America 0:21:04.600 --> 0:21:08.439 thinks I'm a weirdo and I'm your husband. Uh, just 0:21:08.520 --> 0:21:11.920 let's go and move to Texas. And she's like, she said, 0:21:11.960 --> 0:21:14.880 what did you say in Russian? He's like, nothing in Russian? 0:21:15.359 --> 0:21:19.320 And so they moved to Texas and uh, she apparently 0:21:19.480 --> 0:21:22.879 very quickly became just she felt isolated, she didn't have 0:21:22.920 --> 0:21:26.399 any friends, and a woman named Ruth Payne UM felt 0:21:26.400 --> 0:21:28.879 bad for her and took her under her wing and 0:21:28.920 --> 0:21:31.000 they became kind of friends. And Ruth Payne will come 0:21:31.000 --> 0:21:33.280 into play a little later on. Yeah, and this is 0:21:33.280 --> 0:21:36.720 where he was finally sort of um on the radar 0:21:36.760 --> 0:21:39.119 of the FBI. Yeah, when he moved back. Yeah, you 0:21:39.119 --> 0:21:41.639 can't move to Russia and then come back. And they just, 0:21:41.920 --> 0:21:44.199 you know, don't even bother talking to you know, but 0:21:44.320 --> 0:21:47.479 they did talk to him and they said, okay, well listen, 0:21:47.720 --> 0:21:51.359 if if the USSR gets in touch with you and 0:21:51.400 --> 0:21:54.680 want you to do sp N, just let us know. Sure. Okay, 0:21:54.840 --> 0:21:56.640 They're like, all right, we'll have a great day. Thanks 0:21:56.680 --> 0:21:58.680 for the coffee, ma'am. She's like, what did you say 0:21:58.680 --> 0:22:04.639 in Russian? It's pretty remarkable. So on April tenth nine, Um, 0:22:04.680 --> 0:22:08.320 another interesting thing happened a few days after losing his job. 0:22:08.400 --> 0:22:13.520 He tried to assassinate Major General Edwin Walker. This guy 0:22:13.560 --> 0:22:15.640 was a piece of work himself. Yeah, he was a 0:22:15.680 --> 0:22:21.520 hardcore right wing conservative, possibly gay man. Oh I hadn't 0:22:21.520 --> 0:22:24.040 heard that. Yeah. Later in life, in his seventies, he 0:22:24.119 --> 0:22:28.320 was arrested twice for fondling men in public. I wonder 0:22:28.400 --> 0:22:32.840 if he was the model for um, the dad in 0:22:33.320 --> 0:22:38.280 American beauty. Oh, maybe I could see that then. Yeah. 0:22:38.320 --> 0:22:40.040 I mean he never married, and they I don't think 0:22:40.040 --> 0:22:41.800 they ever came right out and said he was gay. 0:22:41.800 --> 0:22:46.320 But he was arrested twice for fondling police officers. If 0:22:46.320 --> 0:22:48.760 that's the case, email and let us know. Okay, Yeah, 0:22:48.760 --> 0:22:50.879 which is neither here nor there, but it's interesting. No, 0:22:51.040 --> 0:22:54.320 but he he was, like you said, extreme, a right 0:22:54.359 --> 0:22:57.439 wing extremist in the very definition of the work. He 0:22:57.520 --> 0:23:03.080 was very um, well respected, decorated military leader, like he 0:23:03.160 --> 0:23:05.440 was commanding all of the troops in West Germany. At 0:23:05.440 --> 0:23:09.600 one point when no he hated the Kennedys. He called 0:23:09.600 --> 0:23:13.000 Harry Truman and Eleanor Roosevelt pink, which means that they 0:23:13.000 --> 0:23:17.399 were communists sympathizers, which is a big deal. He was 0:23:17.440 --> 0:23:20.880