Speaker 1: Welcome, Welcome, Welcome back to the mob Webset podcast. My
Speaker 1: guest today is mister Sponsorship Jesse Kerschbaum of the New Agency. Jesse,
Speaker 1: what is the New Agency?
Speaker 2: New Agency lives in the intersection of music, technology and
Speaker 2: brand partnerships. We are a boutique agency that really is
Speaker 2: connecting brands to their consumers by leveraging the power of music.
Speaker 2: We create pop culture moments and we help brands tell
Speaker 2: their story through this emotional and beautiful industry called the
Speaker 2: music business.
Speaker 1: Okay, let's start with a couple of projects you've worked
Speaker 1: on recently.
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, yesterday obviously we had to shift the recording
Speaker 2: because we popped up at Walmart and at seven to
Speaker 2: eleven for a DJ Khalid nest Quick Chocolate milk that
Speaker 2: we launched, and that was, you know, at this point,
Speaker 2: a six month ordeal where we started helping Nestley try
Speaker 2: to figure out how to work in music. They had
Speaker 2: never worked in music. With nest Quick, they were trying
Speaker 2: to figure out what artists or what they should do.
Speaker 2: So we sourced a bunch of artists. We vetted them.
Speaker 2: Should it be Cardi B, Should it be Chance the rapper.
Speaker 2: We landed on DJ Khalid. It tested very well, family friendly,
Speaker 2: big songs, international, multicultural, and we started with just a
Speaker 2: television commercial which was him and the bunny and kind
Speaker 2: of interaction and it did really, really well, and it
Speaker 2: was at gas stations and it was being played on
Speaker 2: different channels and it got some pretty good traction. And
Speaker 2: at that point Neslei said, should we think about launching
Speaker 2: a flavor? And so I'm sitting with Dj Khaled in
Speaker 2: Miami at his house and we're tasting different samples and
Speaker 2: he's explaining to me, I want the cinnamon to be
Speaker 2: the star. I want this to be a cinnamon forward drink,
Speaker 2: and he's like, I want to call it cinnabun and
Speaker 2: we couldn't clear cinnabuon. Neslee pretty quickly hit me on
Speaker 2: the side and said we could clear cinnamon Bun, and
Speaker 2: collectively we thought it would be a lot more creative
Speaker 2: to call it another Bun, and so we launched Another
Speaker 2: Bun in October. And the power of working with a
Speaker 2: brand like Nesle is you've got massive distribution. We're in Target,
Speaker 2: We're in obviously now Walmart in seven to eleven, uh
Speaker 2: Kroger's and Publics and Amazon, and you know yesterday we
Speaker 2: you know, did this kind of pop up experience last
Speaker 2: minute to shooting some content. Nobody knew it was happening.
Speaker 2: Kind of created a frenzy in the stores, but very
Speaker 2: well controlled, and we opened up four hundred more stores
Speaker 2: through this type of partnership with walmartin with seven to
Speaker 2: eleven and just put this product even more on the map.
Speaker 2: And it's a it's a really exciting case study that
Speaker 2: we're working on. We have three projects in market right
Speaker 2: now and it.
Speaker 1: Well wait, well, let's just drill down a little bit
Speaker 1: more on the Nest quick. How did you establish a
Speaker 1: connection with Nest quick?
Speaker 2: These are long relationships. So the executive at Nesley worked
Speaker 2: with us when she was at red Bull, and red
Speaker 2: Bull was like the Ivy League of Culture marketing, and
Speaker 2: we were very close to the Red Bull team when
Speaker 2: we were just starting the company and built this relationship
Speaker 2: with this senior executive there and stayed in touch over
Speaker 2: the years and supported her with different initiatives. And then
Speaker 2: as time went on and conversations kept going, she eventually said,
Speaker 2: I got something here at Nesley that might make sense.
Speaker 2: We've got a brand that wants to do something in
Speaker 2: music and I thought of you guys. So that led
Speaker 2: to a brief and then a pretty quick process of
Speaker 2: doing this talent search and.
Speaker 1: Okay, wait, wait, okay, let's go a little bit more
Speaker 1: into detail. So you have a long relationship with this woman.
Speaker 1: Just one day you're sitting in front of your computer,
Speaker 1: you get an email or you get a call. That
Speaker 1: was it out of the blue.
Speaker 2: Well, my brother is my business partner, and we can
Speaker 2: get more into the infrastructure of new agency. But my
Speaker 2: brother is a very persistent salesperson and he is really
Speaker 2: good at staying in touch and getting on people's calendars
Speaker 2: and getting people to listen to what we've got going on.
Speaker 2: So he really kind of is a bit of a
Speaker 2: fierce follow upper. And it took months of her saying
Speaker 2: I think I might have something for you until finally
Speaker 2: he got her on the phone and got her excited.
Speaker 2: So it was a relationship that we both had. You know,
Speaker 2: a lot of the conversations we have come from things
Speaker 2: that I might have done, or artists I might have represented,
Speaker 2: or my newsletter beats and bites. But we're full on
Speaker 2: partners and he really doesn't mind following up, and he's
Speaker 2: really good at it, and to be honest, a lot
Speaker 2: of these executives, especially on the brand side, where there's
Speaker 2: a million people emailing them every single day asking them
Speaker 2: for stuff, they don't mind you following up with them.
Speaker 2: They don't mind hearing from you, especially from us with
Speaker 2: the right you know, conversation starters or updates or invites
Speaker 2: to events. It's a long, long, long game sometimes to
Speaker 2: put these projects together. Sometimes they just happen overnight. But
Speaker 2: for the most part, you want to work with, especially
Speaker 2: an agency like Nestlie or a company, a massive corporation
Speaker 2: like Nestley with a not doing much in this space.
Speaker 2: It's an international corporation. They really want to work with
Speaker 2: trusted experts, and after many years of a relationship, lots
Speaker 2: of conversations follow up, the right opportunity presented itself and
Speaker 2: we were down to sprint to get this over the phone.
Speaker 1: Oh okay, okay, you have any idea the frequency of
Speaker 1: your brother's contact with this woman, I would.
Speaker 2: Think, I mean, look again, we knew each other for
Speaker 2: eight years, ten years.
Speaker 1: I mean, is he relentless? Is he bugging or is
Speaker 1: it once a day, once a month, once ya.
Speaker 2: Definitely not bugging. If nobody is coming back to him
Speaker 2: and saying, hey, cut it out, you're hitting me too much.
Speaker 2: It's more that's not the right time. Sorry, I've been
Speaker 2: so busy. I missed your email. I've been on PTO,
Speaker 2: so I don't think.
Speaker 1: Okay, So let's assume your brother is pitching. Is he
Speaker 1: pitching with an idea, is there a hook? Or is
Speaker 1: he just saying we should work together. I can make
Speaker 1: something else.
Speaker 2: We have a very core competency suite of services when
Speaker 2: we sell music strategy, so he's definitely got our core
Speaker 2: business at mind. But we're so entrepreneurial. We're definitely not
Speaker 2: your grandpa's agency and his approaches new frontiers, new trends
Speaker 2: and idea that might make sense. Just staying in touch
Speaker 2: and invite to something. It could be anything across the line,
Speaker 2: and then that person Usually then it sparked something. It
Speaker 2: could be multiple touch points. They might have read something
Speaker 2: in my newsletter. They might have met a friend that
Speaker 2: spoke about us. It could have been word of mouth. Eventually,
Speaker 2: the right opportunity came to mind, and Alex capped her,
Speaker 2: and she gave him a kind of a hook, so
Speaker 2: to speak. She said, I think I got something for you.
Speaker 2: Stay close and that's enough for I guess three more
Speaker 2: months of tracking something like this to then finally us
Speaker 2: it being revealed that this is the obscure idea.
Speaker 1: Oh okay, Ultimately, what did you delivered to you to
Speaker 1: run with?
Speaker 2: She delivered the concept that ness Quick, a brand in
Speaker 2: the Nestley portfolio, wanted to do something in me music
Speaker 2: and wasn't sure what that should be.
Speaker 1: Okay, so she says that you come back with.
Speaker 2: What here are multiple artists that you should work with, right,
Speaker 2: let's start there. Sometimes it is you know, I think
Speaker 2: our secret sauce or our winning formula these days has
Speaker 2: been artist idea and then ten pole moment. It's content,
Speaker 2: it's a live event, it's a live stream, it's a
Speaker 2: product drop. But usually we wrapped the whole package together.
Speaker 2: This was a situation where we started with the artist,
Speaker 2: then we figured out the passion points of these artists.
Speaker 1: Okay, well just a little bit slower, sure, she said,
Speaker 1: nest Quick, the first thing you thought was let me
Speaker 1: get the right artist.
Speaker 2: That's all. It came down to the start.
Speaker 1: Okay, So how did you zero in on the artist?
Speaker 1: And you do you only approach artists have a pre
Speaker 1: existing relationship.
Speaker 2: With absolutely not. We are completely agnostic. We have a
Speaker 2: very good understanding of the landscape of the business. We
Speaker 2: work with the major labels, the indie labels, the talent agencies,
Speaker 2: the DSPs. We're reading hundreds thousands of articles a week,
Speaker 2: so we're seeing so much. We really know the landscape,
Speaker 2: and then we have personal relationships at this point with
Speaker 2: every artist management. There's four or five different ways to
Speaker 2: get to the artists, and what we're really considering is
Speaker 2: what that brand wants. That's who our clients are. At
Speaker 2: this stage in my career, we work on behalf of
Speaker 2: the brands, so we're going to help them try to
Speaker 2: find the best artist with the best path to get
Speaker 2: to that artist at and be able to utilize what's
Speaker 2: authentic to that artist, what's important to that artist, so
Speaker 2: that we can create something that is going to resonate
Speaker 2: with both the artists fan base, the brands folks, and
Speaker 2: receive all sorts of earned media press and you know,
Speaker 2: ultimately hopefully hijack the airwaves and become a really big
Speaker 2: pop culture moment.
Speaker 1: Okay, you got the green light from Nestley via nest
Speaker 1: Quick you start looking at acts. What do you then
Speaker 1: do and how do you end up with DJ Collin.
Speaker 2: We sourced a bunch of different acts. We start to
Speaker 2: deep dive into nest quick we start to figure out
Speaker 2: what this is going to be used for. We don't
Speaker 2: even know if it's a television commercial, if it's going
Speaker 2: to be a digital at the time, we you know,
Speaker 2: it's a step by step process with this particular one,
Speaker 2: and we just stayed very nimble and flexible as we do,
Speaker 2: and started to source options who would be big. We
Speaker 2: know it needed to be a big artist, and we
Speaker 2: know it needed to have a certain family friendly, multi genre,
Speaker 2: multi demo reach, and we knew that it needed to
Speaker 2: be you know, not the biggest in the world, but
Speaker 2: at a certain level where we could shift culture with
Speaker 2: this artist and really impact but also you know, not
Speaker 2: totally destroy the bank. Right We're not booking Rihanna, Beyonce,
Speaker 2: jay Z, but we're getting the opening act for that
Speaker 2: tour or that circuit, and we're getting somebody that really
Speaker 2: understands how to move products. So we then ended up
Speaker 2: you know, pulling demos on different artists. Again, there was
Speaker 2: five artists or so that we present. We kind of
Speaker 2: come with our top three.
Speaker 1: Wait wait, wait, before you approach Nesli, how do you
Speaker 1: decide on those five artists.
Speaker 2: It's a combination of data POV, which is the most important,
Speaker 2: and insider information knowing this artist has a project coming out,
Speaker 2: this artist is going to have an affinity to this product,
Speaker 2: this artist is looking to do certain projects in this
Speaker 2: certain genre or certain sphere. You know. I think our
Speaker 2: kind of curation process really comes down to those three
Speaker 2: things and.
Speaker 1: Find just POV normally means point of view, What do
Speaker 1: you is that we're talking here?
Speaker 2: That's the most important component that we all have right
Speaker 2: now in twenty twenty four, twenty twenty five, it's POV.
Speaker 2: What is are unique in a world where there's no
Speaker 2: intermediaries and anybody can put a record, anybody can record
Speaker 2: a video, and now the algorithms have changed where it's
Speaker 2: the best content wins. It's really about what you say
Speaker 2: and how you got to what you're saying. So POV
Speaker 2: is you know, twenty plus years of being in the trenches,
Speaker 2: in the street, in the suites of the music business,
Speaker 2: really understanding it, plus all the other characteristics that I have,
Speaker 2: the other things I've read, the places I've studied, the
Speaker 2: things I've gone through, the traveling the shows, The touring
Speaker 2: all of the different experiences forms my POV and then
Speaker 2: my team's POV collectively really informs how this decision is
Speaker 2: made with the data and the insider information.
Speaker 1: Okay, you go to Nestle with five acts, have you
Speaker 1: approached those five acts and such that they say we're
Speaker 1: on the right terms, we're interested, or are you going
Speaker 1: to go back to them after Nestle decides.
Speaker 2: We might have soft sounded some of the artists. We
Speaker 2: might have had a casual conversation like, hey, thinking about
Speaker 2: this if we didn't know these are artists that we
Speaker 2: know what they're looking for, we know what they take.
Speaker 2: We run into them at a concert, we run into
Speaker 2: them in an event. We're you know, rubbing shoulders with
Speaker 2: them in our world on a pretty regular basis. So
Speaker 2: it's not that we need to overanalyze this. It might
Speaker 2: be in certain situations, certain clients definitely want you to
Speaker 2: really know availability interest. You know, there's different things, but
Speaker 2: usually we want to have a confirmation of intent from
Speaker 2: a brand before we start going too deep onto this
Speaker 2: brand is interested. Potentially, it just kind of stirs up
Speaker 2: a lot of feelings and also it's a waste of time.
Speaker 2: So we want a commitment from the brand to say, yes,
Speaker 2: this is a direction that we'd be comfortable and going.
Speaker 2: Here's some parameters around budget, here's some use case needs.
Speaker 2: Then you can go to an artist and say, hey,
Speaker 2: this is what it's looking like before I send you
Speaker 2: a formal offer. But we would want that before we're
Speaker 2: talking to a artist, just because you know, it's like,
Speaker 2: do you want to do this thing? Well? What is
Speaker 2: this thing? Right? It's too amorphous without more parameters, so
Speaker 2: we would kind of boil down what the parameters are.
Speaker 2: It puts the ball back in Nesley's court, where it's okay,
Speaker 2: let's figure out what we want to do.
Speaker 1: Heyway before we get there. Okay, you go back to Nasville,
Speaker 1: you get five acts. What happens right after that?
Speaker 2: We talked through them, We present them, we talk through them.
Speaker 2: It's a you know, pretty quick conversation. We show the research,
Speaker 2: we give our POV again.
Speaker 1: Well I'm just interested, sure what research are you talking about?
Speaker 1: What numbers and where do you get these numbers?
Speaker 2: Social cloud articles, brand affinities. There's like fifteen twenty different
Speaker 2: data put inputs that we could look at that could
Speaker 2: kind of solidify why this artist would be a good
Speaker 2: candidate for this, and then we would kind of highlight
Speaker 2: our top three. You know, we probably have the last
Speaker 2: slide with the last two like these two could be considered.
Speaker 2: You know, you don't want to rule anything out, but
Speaker 2: we want to make this as thoughtful as possible when
Speaker 2: we're presenting it and then a POV. Right, this artist
Speaker 2: we think will work with this in this budget during
Speaker 2: this time period. Here's the reasons why let us know
Speaker 2: in this situation because it was our first time in
Speaker 2: particular working with Nesley, they did a whole background check
Speaker 2: on these artists as well. It was another series of vetting.
Speaker 2: We do the vetting. We make sure that there's no
Speaker 2: complicated things, there's no conflicts of interest there. You know,
Speaker 2: there could be things that come up, right then there
Speaker 2: are always so you always have to kind of know,
Speaker 2: all right, this is a minefield, this is a clause
Speaker 2: that we have to be careful of. And in this situation,
Speaker 2: there were those situations that we had to kind of
Speaker 2: sidestep and iron out and work through. But after everything
Speaker 2: was said and done, their vetting and our vetting process,
Speaker 2: it allowed them to say it tests well, we want
Speaker 2: to give this a shot. We're not going all the
Speaker 2: way to start, but we want the options to unrail,
Speaker 2: to take this to television, to potentially release a flavor,
Speaker 2: you know, and and continue to extend on from there.
Speaker 1: Okay, you mentioned test. Nestley actually does a test.
Speaker 2: Yeah, they do surveys. There's great survey companies out there
Speaker 2: that can tell you how this is going to perform
Speaker 2: with your brand and this artist and this type of content.
Speaker 2: So yeah, they'll they'll do the data.
Speaker 1: Okay, So Nestlee Nestley does it work. It comes back
Speaker 1: to you when it comes back to you, does it
Speaker 1: have one specific artist or two or three?
Speaker 2: Let's start with one? Right? In this situation, it was
Speaker 2: we've got we've got one that we want to start with.
Speaker 1: Right.
Speaker 2: You can't be married put all your eggs in one
Speaker 2: artist's basket. It's not behooving to the brand to do
Speaker 2: that because then they're just like shooting their shot and
Speaker 2: that's all they got. It should be about a diversified
Speaker 2: of opportunities.
Speaker 1: Okay, So before you approach the artists, how much concept
Speaker 1: is established in terms of cash, exhibition product, how much
Speaker 1: is formulated or even up for discussion before you approach
Speaker 1: the artist that's been decided upon, all.
Speaker 2: Of that will be mapped out, right. You got to
Speaker 2: have the understanding of what the cash is going to be,
Speaker 2: of what the the product is going to be, what
Speaker 2: the terms and conditions are going to be needed. You
Speaker 2: need to understand that when you're coming to the artist,
Speaker 2: how many posts? What is this going to be used for?
Speaker 2: Linear like, how is the glam gonna work? Like? Is this?
Speaker 2: How how many service days is this? All of those
Speaker 2: are going to be factors when an artist and their
Speaker 2: team decides on if the project is right.
Speaker 1: Okay, so let's just stay between new and in this
Speaker 1: case NESTLEI, how do you agree on those numbers? Or
Speaker 1: does Neslie tell you?
Speaker 2: We can coach Nestli on what we think it will
Speaker 2: take and Nestli will tell us what their parameters are.
Speaker 2: So it's a conversation. It's a level of trust, and
Speaker 2: NESTLEI might say, or the brand in general might say,
Speaker 2: this is what we've got. Can we make it work?
Speaker 2: And then it's up to us to try to figure
Speaker 2: out how to make that work right. There's so many
Speaker 2: levers on the board. Do we do less posts, do
Speaker 2: we do less service days? Do we do shorter terms.
Speaker 2: Do we do less regions, do we not license music?
Speaker 2: Do we license music? Do we tack on an event?
Speaker 2: Do we take the event off? Like all of those
Speaker 2: components will then help us to kind of formulate what
Speaker 2: the idea is and how it's going to work. We've
Speaker 2: got a long history with rock Nation with DJ Khaled,
Speaker 2: you know, there's years and years of successes together and
Speaker 2: wins and trust, so they will understand that this is
Speaker 2: going to be done right, this is going to be cool,
Speaker 2: This is going to have elements that they're looking for them.
Speaker 2: They're dealing with somebody that used to represent artists, that
Speaker 2: understands the artist's lens, that was with them on this
Speaker 2: and been in the trenches with their artists from their
Speaker 2: side of the table, so they know that they're getting
Speaker 2: that level of appreciative I guess understanding. And then they're
Speaker 2: looking at this and saying wow, like this has potential
Speaker 2: to be in hundreds of stores, like we're going to
Speaker 2: be in all of these amazing places, Like this is
Speaker 2: going to be on television potentially, like it's one day
Speaker 2: shoot and and he's gonna be able to be associated
Speaker 2: with such a classic brand that is like we all
Speaker 2: grew up on it's iconic, and they're gonna remix the
Speaker 2: brand and allow the DJ Khaled, this producer extraordinaire empresario,
Speaker 2: to be able to put his stamp on what the
Speaker 2: bunny looks like, that's pretty amazing, and what the bunny
Speaker 2: does and sounds like that's a big opportunity. I you know,
Speaker 2: smart managers realize that the co sign of a brand
Speaker 2: is so valuable. Like Oreo is bigger than any artists
Speaker 2: in the world. They have way more distribution. They are
Speaker 2: way more well known than Bruce Springsteen. So if an
Speaker 2: Oreo has infinite options of who they want to work
Speaker 2: with it they could pick anybody they If not this artist,
Speaker 2: it could be this artist, and the idea could switch around.
Speaker 2: So you got to have an artist or a team
Speaker 2: that understands that these brand partnerships are in many ways
Speaker 2: a gift from a creative source.
Speaker 1: Okay, a traditional advertising agencies. He takes a percentage. How
Speaker 1: does new get paid?
Speaker 2: We're usually you know, it's every time, it's case by case.
Speaker 2: The gone is the row where you're you know, aore
Speaker 2: on retainer for imperpetuity, you know, until there's an agency reshuffle.
Speaker 2: So we always have to come up with our structure.
Speaker 2: We're always trying to figure out what is our role
Speaker 2: in this partnership. Are we strategy? That's one level. We
Speaker 2: really start with strategy. That's where is the best place
Speaker 2: for a brand to think about things. Spend a month
Speaker 2: and a half figure out where you belong. Get the
Speaker 2: right artists, get the right venues, get the right festival partnerships,
Speaker 2: get the kind of where you belong in the landscape.
Speaker 2: If you're a new brand to this, then from there
Speaker 2: ideally will execute the strategy. And that's what's been happening
Speaker 2: more and more is once we write the strategy, we're
Speaker 2: in the unique position to make that strategy come to life.
Speaker 2: And then that would be unlocking a different budget, and
Speaker 2: then from that budget we could be charging hourly, we
Speaker 2: could be charging project based, we could be charging a royalty.
Speaker 2: In this scenario, you know, we're in a position where
Speaker 2: Nesley pays us a fee to on each layer of
Speaker 2: the campaign.
Speaker 1: Okay, how many people work for new and does it
Speaker 1: fluctuate based on what project you are working? Fun?
Speaker 2: Yeah, we're a consortium of consultants and permal ancers. We're
Speaker 2: constantly scaling up and down based on what the job
Speaker 2: is at hand. We're super nimble in that regard. So
Speaker 2: we've got a core team of all stars that look
Speaker 2: in the range of seven to ten people on an
Speaker 2: everyday basis, and that's a family shop. That's me and
Speaker 2: my brother, everybody we work together, we love, we've known well.
Speaker 2: I mean, now we're hiring some more people, but we're
Speaker 2: constantly keeping the core really really tight. And then when
Speaker 2: we land the project or we need to put different
Speaker 2: components of it around it in order to service. Because
Speaker 2: a brand expects really really good service, then we just
Speaker 2: bring in the team to do that, and we know
Speaker 2: who they are and we tap them on a regular basis,
Speaker 2: and it allows us to keep the agency lights on
Speaker 2: on a regular basis. Because you know, when these deals
Speaker 2: they yacht, they don't allow you to scale as well
Speaker 2: as making money while you sleep. It's a different business model.
Speaker 2: That's why we've kind of started investing in companies and
Speaker 2: doing more out of the box thinking, because we want
Speaker 2: to have equity beyond just the agency in projects so
Speaker 2: that we can make money while we sleep and not
Speaker 2: just be tied to the model of the agency where
Speaker 2: you win accounts, you hire people to service, the accounts,
Speaker 2: you bring more people in to win more accounts your service,
Speaker 2: and it's just it's great and it's exciting and it's fun,
Speaker 2: but it can feel a little exhausting the agency side
Speaker 2: of things, so we've mixed it up. But yeah, I
Speaker 2: mean the team that we work with on an everyday basis,
Speaker 2: on an everyday call, it feels like a family restaurant.
Speaker 2: It's really awesome, and we service amazing brands and work
Speaker 2: with people that we love that are all extremely passionate
Speaker 2: about music. It's my brother who again has been with
Speaker 2: me on this journey for since we were representing artists,
Speaker 2: and it's just a really gifted salesperson and creative and
Speaker 2: passionate about the elements of the New Frontiers. He's the
Speaker 2: guy that will go chase down a deal for China
Speaker 2: or you know, work in blockchain or in all sorts
Speaker 2: of New frontiers esports and gambling and cannabis like and
Speaker 2: tying that all to the music side of things, because
Speaker 2: that's our business. Where there's like our chief strategy officer, Nikki,
Speaker 2: who remembers you when you came in. She was in
Speaker 2: the flom Era and she's just so bright and so wise,
Speaker 2: and she remembers you when you used to fact your
Speaker 2: newsletter and you came in during the Flom era when
Speaker 2: she was working for Jason Flammer and are in the
Speaker 2: record side of things, and you did a whole speech
Speaker 2: and a whole conversation to help them. They hired you
Speaker 2: to figure out how the digital landscape worked. And I
Speaker 2: just loved that story, Like, so, it's just folks on
Speaker 2: our team. We've got I taught a class last year
Speaker 2: at American University. I speak at a lot of colleges,
Speaker 2: a lot of the thesis of New Agency when we
Speaker 2: first started, it was to focus on the college market,
Speaker 2: to find artists, to break artists. Just felt like a
Speaker 2: competitive edge that the bigger agencies weren't thinking about at
Speaker 2: the time. And so I taught a class last year
Speaker 2: at American University's business school, the co God School of Business,
Speaker 2: And through that I get amazing interns and really bright folks,
Speaker 2: fright kids coming in that we end up hiring or
Speaker 2: bringing in US interns. And so we just hired this
Speaker 2: assistant from American University who's just fantastic, and you know
Speaker 2: she's she's here in Miami with me. We've got Sam
Speaker 2: who's our GM. She started like as a friend of
Speaker 2: her father's and she has been now with us for
Speaker 2: over a decade and she's climbed the ranks from interning
Speaker 2: at different companies that I helped her get internships at
Speaker 2: to really being the clue of the operation. Our GM
Speaker 2: are like our partner and.
Speaker 1: Okay, okay, let's go back to college. Let's go back
Speaker 1: to nes quick. So you deal with Nestlie. You come
Speaker 1: up with a formula, you pitch Collin. Tell me about
Speaker 1: that experience and how you decide on what Collein is
Speaker 1: actually going to do.
Speaker 2: Well, we helped Neslie, Right, We coach them on what
Speaker 2: this needs to look like, and then they also tell us, hey,
Speaker 2: we need this. We're going to need that. It's going
Speaker 2: to need to look like this. There's going to be
Speaker 2: no wavering on different components of the So they lay
Speaker 2: out what they need in an offer form. Right, we
Speaker 2: try to get it on their letterhead. We try to
Speaker 2: get it really spelled out. It might just be as
Speaker 2: an email, but essentially what they do is commit to
Speaker 2: a budget, some parameters, some constraints, and we have a
Speaker 2: soft sound conversation. Right, we'll call up Kallu's longtime manager
Speaker 2: Lenny s he's you know, jay Z's A and R.
Speaker 2: He's tried and true, full on industry legend and have
Speaker 2: a long standing relationship with him, a lot of trust
Speaker 2: and we'll talk to him about this, and he knows.
Speaker 2: He knows when things sound good, and he knows when
Speaker 2: things sound decent, and he knows when they're coming from
Speaker 2: people he wants to work with versus not. So he's
Speaker 2: pretty selective on how things get through the filter, and
Speaker 2: most people are in this business. And ultimately he was
Speaker 2: excited by this and passed it along to Kalid's internal team,
Speaker 2: which is a whole crew of really interesting, smart, bright
Speaker 2: folks from the kind of we the best side of
Speaker 2: things that we've now known for a long time and
Speaker 2: also had a lot of hits with. And so collectively
Speaker 2: we're talking about the offer legal is looped in. We're
Speaker 2: pushing it through back and forth with their legal with
Speaker 2: Nestley's Legal until it gets to a place where we're
Speaker 2: so close it's just about there. Everybody in theories confirmed
Speaker 2: we've got to shoot this in a couple of days.
Speaker 2: And at that point we put everybody on the phone
Speaker 2: right like, let's there's three things that you need to
Speaker 2: talk about because we can't keep going back and forth.
Speaker 2: It's time to just you know, commence the deal or
Speaker 2: and so we'll we'll kind of bring everybody on a
Speaker 2: call and in this situation. And at that point it
Speaker 2: was magic, right, Like all of the tough stances of
Speaker 2: the different sides and the hard lines, everybody came together.
Speaker 2: You could see this was something everybody wanted to do.
Speaker 2: And that was just the It was a long weekend, right,
Speaker 2: This was one of those deals where we're all all
Speaker 2: working through the weekend. Because you put a parameter, you
Speaker 2: got to have the creator all creation and creativity needs
Speaker 2: those kind of constraints to really happen. And so there's
Speaker 2: a shoot date, and there's a drop dead date, and
Speaker 2: there's a move on date. And Nesley doesn't need to
Speaker 2: do a commercial with the music artists, right, like as
Speaker 2: quick as fine, their business is going to be booming
Speaker 2: no matter what, and like they know that there's just
Speaker 2: a great touch point and they can age in a
Speaker 2: different way and they can be in conversations that they
Speaker 2: would never be in like when would Ness Quick be
Speaker 2: in Rolling Stone or in hype Beasts during People Magazine,
Speaker 2: Like that's the power of doing a smart partnership and
Speaker 2: telling a really good story with it. So the whole
Speaker 2: thing kind of ultimately comes together with.
Speaker 1: Oh, okay, so let's just say hypothetical, you have a brand,
Speaker 1: you have an idea, they have an artist. As you say,
Speaker 1: the brand doesn't really need any artists. Do the artists
Speaker 1: have any negotiating power here other than yes and no. Absolutely,
Speaker 1: they can choose not to do it, or do they
Speaker 1: say yes but I want two X.
Speaker 2: Yeah they do. I mean, I think everybody has to
Speaker 2: play ball, and I think that's the beauty of having
Speaker 2: somebody that really can speak both sides, that has represented
Speaker 2: brands for ten years, has represented artists for ten years
Speaker 2: and just knows where the line is and where the
Speaker 2: line isn't. If everybody wants to do the deal, then
Speaker 2: let's figure out how to do the deal. And I'm
Speaker 2: a pretty positive person. I see the power and I
Speaker 2: see the opportunity, and I think people know that if
Speaker 2: I'm bringing them something, it's gonna be cool, it's gonna
Speaker 2: have a certain level of vanesse to it. It's gonna
Speaker 2: have a really good sensibility of how they should be positioned.
Speaker 2: It's going to lead to more opportunities. Right, Having me
Speaker 2: in your orbit, who works with one hundred brands on
Speaker 2: a pretty regular basis or at least has their ear,
Speaker 2: I can see more dots to connect.
Speaker 1: Okay, so let's win. Collin ultimately was approached by ness Lee.
Speaker 1: What was on the table? A commercial in store social?
Speaker 1: What did they want in the initial ask?
Speaker 2: A television commercial, social media components and a ability to
Speaker 2: option for a flavor if we get there, And it
Speaker 2: wasn't even officially a television commercial, right, we had to
Speaker 2: circle back because once you say television and you say linear,
Speaker 2: it's sagged. It's all sorts of different components to making that.
Speaker 2: So it was originally we're not sure we want to
Speaker 2: shoot something on a global scale with content, and then
Speaker 2: we snapped into linear and kind of had to double
Speaker 2: back a little bit to figure out how to cover
Speaker 2: all those fees.
Speaker 1: Okay, tell me about that transition briefly, how you go
Speaker 1: from concept to pushing the button that it is going
Speaker 1: to be on TV.
Speaker 2: That's kind of behind the curtain, right, That's a brand
Speaker 2: that's doing what they do and they're figuring this out
Speaker 2: in their corporate bureaucracy with their different layers. This might
Speaker 2: be right. Our contact who was doing the culture side
Speaker 2: of things said it might, it might not to a
Speaker 2: certain point. So we always knew that it could be
Speaker 2: on the table. We always hoped he would be on
Speaker 2: the table, even though it's more complicated, it's more impact,
Speaker 2: it's a bigger moment. So they ended up essentially saying,
Speaker 2: let's do that. We want to do that. It's working,
Speaker 2: it's tracking that way, And you know, it was always
Speaker 2: kind of presented to Kalid in that vein of this
Speaker 2: is going to potentially be a television company.
Speaker 1: Oh okay, so now it is a TV commercial. How
Speaker 1: much commitment did they demand of college, how did you
Speaker 1: decide when you were going to shoot it? And how
Speaker 1: much money does it cost to make one of these?
Speaker 2: He's got a very very good team. He's if you
Speaker 2: look at the like the numbers, the charts, he is
Speaker 2: one of the most brand savvy artists in the world.
Speaker 2: It's why these partnerships work for him. It's because he
Speaker 2: just is so inspiring. You can turn it on like
Speaker 2: nobody else and you just don't. You just love the
Speaker 2: fact that he's such a great positive salesperson, and so
Speaker 2: he works really well with brands. He's almost his own
Speaker 2: kind of super format like snoop where you can bring
Speaker 2: him into different scenarios and it works because we get it.
Speaker 2: We know that the shtick can be moved to different
Speaker 2: platforms pretty easily. And you know, he's a very positive person.
Speaker 2: He's a very uplifting person. He's very family oriented, and
Speaker 2: his team is very tough, right, they get it. And
Speaker 2: he's a very shrewd business guy too, and he's not
Speaker 2: going to do anything that's not in his best interest
Speaker 2: at all. And he totally understands his brand and he's
Speaker 2: calling the shots himself in real time. And you know,
Speaker 2: this is not an artist that's not present with every
Speaker 2: component of this deal. So he wants it to be
Speaker 2: a television commercial, but also wants to not be overextended
Speaker 2: when it comes to service days when it comes to
Speaker 2: so we kept it the one day, one day in
Speaker 2: and out.
Speaker 1: Okay, so this is one day. You have any idea
Speaker 1: what the budget to shoot the commercial was?
Speaker 2: No? No, I mean it's okay. The shot in Miami,
Speaker 2: I know that get this commercial.
Speaker 1: Okay, Today you can shoot something for nothing on an iPhone.
Speaker 1: You could easily spend a million dollars generally speaking on
Speaker 1: something like this. The reason it's interesting is it's relative
Speaker 1: to music video, music video in the pre Internet era,
Speaker 1: but just for hundreds of thousands of dollars spend in
Speaker 1: a matter of days. Is this Traditionally these brands spend
Speaker 1: a huge amount of money. But in today's marketplace where
Speaker 1: you can do it down and dirty, are they still
Speaker 1: spending that kind of money brands? I mean, I think
Speaker 1: I'm talking about purely production. Purely production, they show up,
Speaker 1: you know, are they spending four hundred thousand dollars in
Speaker 1: a day or twenty five thousands?
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's so case by case, right, you could pull
Speaker 2: together a really good content piece that resonates it and
Speaker 2: it doesn't have to be that expensive. Or you can
Speaker 2: bring in a high level production team and you know,
Speaker 2: put it in the taj Mahal if you want to. Like,
Speaker 2: it's really depending on what it is and what the
Speaker 2: objectives are. I think the majority of the money gets
Speaker 2: spent on in this situation the talent, right like, and
Speaker 2: the storytelling and the being able to I don't think
Speaker 2: that they They brought in a great director and it
Speaker 2: was you know, we shot at in Miami to make
Speaker 2: it easy for Kalid, which you know, was able to
Speaker 2: save on some costs and for them, and that made sense.
Speaker 2: But for the most part, I you know, again, we'll
Speaker 2: do these campaigns for one hundred thousand, We'll do these
Speaker 2: campaigns for you know, infinite numbers. It's it's really about
Speaker 2: the brand, what the brand's trying to sell or market.
Speaker 1: Oh, okay, okay. In this particular case, Nessley says yes
Speaker 1: to a TV commercial, how much is Collin involved in
Speaker 1: the creative of the actual commercial.
Speaker 2: Involved, approving, choosing outfits, making sure looking at the cuts,
Speaker 2: seeing you know, having his photographer and videographer there, kind
Speaker 2: of mimicking it so that he can see that this
Speaker 2: looks good. He's looking at images. You know, this is
Speaker 2: an artist that's also an executive, that's also a CEO,
Speaker 2: that's also signed, really successful artist that works under the
Speaker 2: biggest and best artist that works with the biggest and
Speaker 2: best management companies in the business. He's got a really
Speaker 2: good eye for his brand and what he's doing. So
Speaker 2: he's the hands on But again, like his team, they
Speaker 2: know what they want. He knows what he wants. They're
Speaker 2: going to see storyboards, everything's scripted out, everything's you know,
Speaker 2: mapped to the t and then he's going to get
Speaker 2: there and he's gonna call shot, says the You know,
Speaker 2: the tape is rolling because that's the right way to
Speaker 2: do it. You want to be free flowing. It's it
Speaker 2: feels almost like a Larry David's Curb your Enthusiasm, Like
Speaker 2: everything's tight and then you show up and you do
Speaker 2: what you need to do and you have the images
Speaker 2: you want, but you want to bottle the magic if
Speaker 2: there could be a chance for that serendipity.
Speaker 1: Okay, so that's the TV commercial. What is the commitment
Speaker 1: on social uh?
Speaker 2: You know with the guy? Like again, everything is case
Speaker 2: by case, right. You shoot a commercial for a brand,
Speaker 2: a lifestyle brand, and they're doing it a whole campaign
Speaker 2: and we're just doing it just for Instagram and TikTok
Speaker 2: and that's a different thing, right. It's each one is different,
Speaker 2: Each artist is different, each person's great is different, each
Speaker 2: platform is different. It's really case by case. But with Kalid,
Speaker 2: the beauty of him is he is a promotion machine.
Speaker 2: It all works well for his brand. He understands his
Speaker 2: brand so well, knows that these type of fan love
Speaker 2: moments help usher in more excitement around what he's doing.
Speaker 2: It's like a brand in some ways, is like a
Speaker 2: feature on his latest hit. So he will post about
Speaker 2: it with the brand's permission. He'll post about it. Behind
Speaker 2: the scenes, he'll post his own take on it. He'll
Speaker 2: tell the story in real time. He'll allow the brand
Speaker 2: to tell the story, and then he'll come back over it.
Speaker 2: So like a great partnership, Like most great partnerships, you
Speaker 2: want to have the guardrails. You want to have the
Speaker 2: parameters of this is what you need to post. But
Speaker 2: you don't want to be managing this to the letter
Speaker 2: of the law. Like that's not the spirit of a
Speaker 2: successful partnership where everybody is winning. You want this to
Speaker 2: be something that all sides are excited about, that is
Speaker 2: a mutual win, has good legs to go on. Is
Speaker 2: a feeling like this is actually good for me to
Speaker 2: post this and to share this.
Speaker 1: Okay, But you know these things get written down on
Speaker 1: paper or on a computer. Will these contracts say like
Speaker 1: I want ten Instagram posts, five TikTok clips, other locations
Speaker 1: on social media. Will that literally be irrelevant of what
Speaker 1: Colin does. Will those parameters be locked into a piece
Speaker 1: of paper?
Speaker 2: I mean ten would be egregious. But yeah, there'll be
Speaker 2: a number, and then they'll also be certain hashtags and
Speaker 2: certain deliverables in those posts. Right, Like, it's not just
Speaker 2: they don't want just a post. They want to post
Speaker 2: with you know that's FCC compliant, that's got the different
Speaker 2: hashtags in it, that's driving to the right places. So
Speaker 2: these are things that, yeah, they'll be approved content and
Speaker 2: messaging that will need to go up. And then in
Speaker 2: certain instances it will be completely controlled. Like the first
Speaker 2: shooting the commercial, there was no ability to post. Everything
Speaker 2: was behind the scenes, everything was dark. The brand's going
Speaker 2: to lead the story. When the brand leads the story,
Speaker 2: that's when everything starts to unfold. So that would be
Speaker 2: normally how this would work. But now that things have
Speaker 2: gotten a little free flowing, Kala just understands that if
Speaker 2: ness Quick, the CEO of Nesley is doing a sampling
Speaker 2: at their office and they tag him in it because
Speaker 2: his bottle's in it, it becomes exciting and he just
Speaker 2: knows how to make these moments in his voice, in
Speaker 2: his pov Okay.
Speaker 1: So, but generally speaking, in the contract, in terms of
Speaker 1: social media, what will be the minimums.
Speaker 2: Required really depends. I mean, these influencer deals right now
Speaker 2: have made this market very different. There was a world
Speaker 2: where you could do these endorsements. It could just be
Speaker 2: one post, it could be one story, it could be
Speaker 2: one static image, it could be a TikTok beyond your
Speaker 2: platform of your choice, it could be you know, it's
Speaker 2: really case by case like, there's so many nuances to
Speaker 2: this world, which is it's great that the brand partnership
Speaker 2: space has exploded. I want to thank hip hop for that.
Speaker 2: I want to thank Covid for that. I want to
Speaker 2: thank so many reasons why this paradigm has shifted a lot.
Speaker 2: Because the influencer market has just made it so much
Speaker 2: easier to do. But brand partnerships have become a very
Speaker 2: good source of marketing attention for artists, and I just
Speaker 2: think that it's been very, very helpful and it doesn't
Speaker 2: have to.
Speaker 1: Be Okay, wait, wait, that's good. I sign a deal.
Speaker 1: I'm doing a television and commercial. What is my commitment
Speaker 1: with Instagram in TikTok forget content whatever? How many times
Speaker 1: am I going to have.
Speaker 2: To post which company which deal? Like are we talking about.
Speaker 1: Let's say, let's talk nasty.
Speaker 2: I would think it's you know, in the you know,
Speaker 2: ballpark three posts right like around ten pole moments, the
Speaker 2: announce highlight, the commercial right like, it's not it's it's
Speaker 2: pretty straightforward, right it's not.
Speaker 1: Okay okay, But what you're saying is a good act
Speaker 1: will actually over the liver.
Speaker 2: That's the nature of doing good business in general, especially
Speaker 2: when it's a gift that could keep on giving. Now
Speaker 2: we've got an original flavor. Now this flavor is doing
Speaker 2: you know, now we're in walmartn Okay, okay, okay, okay.
Speaker 1: You referenced the change in the influencer market in the
Speaker 1: last couple of years. Tell me about that change.
Speaker 2: Look, the history of music and brands, it's not that deep.
Speaker 2: It's kind of started the jingles were going on in
Speaker 2: the radio era. But brand marketing has been going on
Speaker 2: for thousands of thousands years. But like, really the first
Speaker 2: music in brand partnerships were the Rolling Stones and Rice Crispies.
Speaker 2: It was a television commercial and Rolling Stones were a
Speaker 2: laughing stock. Like it just was for so many years
Speaker 2: not in vogue to do these brand partnerships. It was sellout.
Speaker 2: And now we're twenty twenty four. Could you believe that
Speaker 2: Bob Dylan's launching a whiskey and Bruce Springsteen's and multiple
Speaker 2: Super Bowl commercials like this didn't exist five years ago,
Speaker 2: eight years ago. How we got here is a series
Speaker 2: of steps. Partly it's because of the digital transformation and
Speaker 2: record labels not being able to give tour support and
Speaker 2: not being able to support artists, the artists looking for
Speaker 2: new revenue streams. Then it was really about the entrepreneurial
Speaker 2: spirit of hip hop, and you know the big run
Speaker 2: DMC Adidas moment, and then so many artists being able
Speaker 2: to talk the brand language and be able to get
Speaker 2: the attention of brands. And then it was about artists
Speaker 2: launching their own brands, which is I think the biggest
Speaker 2: story in music from twenty ten to twenty twenty, which
Speaker 2: is Beats, Andre Rihanna and Empty Dare I Say, Kanye
Speaker 2: and Yeasy like these are billion dollar stories which were
Speaker 2: way bigger than these big artists music. But now what's
Speaker 2: happened is through COVID. I look at it as like
Speaker 2: a different error, right, it's pre COVID, in post COVID.
Speaker 2: After COVID, when the music business stopped and you could
Speaker 2: no longer tour, how were you getting paid? These brand partnerships,
Speaker 2: made a lot of sets, and there is a marketplace.
Speaker 2: There is a very frothy marketplace for influencers, for creators,
Speaker 2: for people with vice eyelashes that go out and we'll
Speaker 2: post about brands and talk about them for paid promotion.
Speaker 2: Now that is not what musicians are. Musicians are the
Speaker 2: ultimate influencers. They're creating product. They can put them in
Speaker 2: so many different rooms and like their art is just
Speaker 2: so much bigger than what an influencers are. And now
Speaker 2: that there's a marketplace and there's a status quo and
Speaker 2: it's easier to do these deals and there's every brand
Speaker 2: is now comfortable working with celebrities, influencers, artists, the marketplace
Speaker 2: is a lot easier and really like it helps an artist,
Speaker 2: especially if you tie it into a big promotional moment,
Speaker 2: like that's the cosign, that's the lift. Like it's almost
Speaker 2: like having a Diplo remix your song is having Nestley
Speaker 2: put out your your products, your flavor.
Speaker 1: Okay, compensation, cash compensation, which as you stated, is not
Speaker 1: the only compensation here. What kind of numbers are we
Speaker 1: talking about?
Speaker 2: It's all case by case, right, it could be you know,
Speaker 2: I think there's a world where every brand should have
Speaker 2: a music strategy. You could be an e merging brand.
Speaker 2: You could be a mom and pop store you just don't.
Speaker 2: You could be a small lifestyle brand, like there are
Speaker 2: one hundred million dollar brands that should be doing music
Speaker 2: that just don't know how. And in that world, you're
Speaker 2: not spending a million dollars. You're not spending Oh okay,
Speaker 2: that's all.
Speaker 1: I'm a Spotify top fifty act. Yeah, I make a
Speaker 1: brand deal. How much money floats to my bottom line?
Speaker 2: What's the brand? What's the marketing?
Speaker 1: Brand? Is a Fortune five hundred brand?
Speaker 2: And is it like aligned? Is it something that like
Speaker 2: who needs who more?
Speaker 1: Right?
Speaker 2: Like what layer in the cycle of that artist?
Speaker 1: I'm only I'm not looking for a raw number. I'm
Speaker 1: looking for range. I do this? Can I make multiple
Speaker 1: seven figures? Is that possible?
Speaker 2: Definitely?
Speaker 1: Okay?
Speaker 2: I mean you bob less, that's I think the brand
Speaker 2: deals out there?
Speaker 1: Okay, But I'm asking for a musician, so I can
Speaker 1: make one of these deals and multiple seven figures can
Speaker 1: float to my bottom line.
Speaker 2: Sure, especially if you're involved and the royalty side. You know,
Speaker 2: if you're just doing a television commercial, show up, you know,
Speaker 2: hold the cookie and leave. You're not set up to
Speaker 2: really capture the line.
Speaker 1: So what is that worth? One hundred?
Speaker 2: No? I mean it depends on the artists. But like
Speaker 2: if you're a big fortune you know, Spotify Top one
Speaker 2: hundred artists, top ten artists, and you're you know, you're
Speaker 2: going to be prominently featured. Is it just for linear?
Speaker 2: Is it for digital? Is it like is it television?
Speaker 2: Is it global?
Speaker 1: What kind of give me a range? It's for television
Speaker 1: and other things they want to do the commercial. I'm
Speaker 1: a Spotify Top fifty artist. It's all I'm delivering. What's
Speaker 1: that worth?
Speaker 2: I mean, does the artist just what all they're doing
Speaker 2: is standing in a commercial? Are they licensing their music?
Speaker 1: All they're doing is standing in their commercial.
Speaker 2: Standing in the commercial? Are they speaking yes okay? And
Speaker 2: are they saying like, Hi.
Speaker 1: I'm something positive about the product?
Speaker 2: Okay? You know, I think it's again, why would we
Speaker 2: do that deal?
Speaker 1: It? Just listen, people have no idea. You know, every
Speaker 1: deal is unique, Every payday is unique. Okay. But if
Speaker 1: I'm going down this road and I'm willing to give
Speaker 1: what the company wants and the company wants me at
Speaker 1: the end of the day, and I'm a Spotify top
Speaker 1: fifty act. Am I talking about netting five hundred k,
Speaker 1: two hundred k, two million? What kind of numbers are here?
Speaker 2: It really depends on brand it yes, well, yes, and
Speaker 2: all of the above, Like are they doing social posts?
Speaker 2: Are they release the original product?
Speaker 1: They're doing everything. If I'm doing everything, I'm on a
Speaker 1: Spotify top fifty act and it's a fortune five hundred company,
Speaker 1: we assume it's multiple seven figures.
Speaker 2: Again, depends it would be an excess.
Speaker 1: It would be it would be a seven figure deal.
Speaker 1: Would we agree on that?
Speaker 2: I think you're you're you know. It depends again if
Speaker 2: that artist wants it or what they the artist reasons.
Speaker 1: Everybody's in, I'm in. You're a major food company, I'm in.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna go a million dollars? Is gonna go straight
Speaker 1: to my bottom line? Yes?
Speaker 2: No, I think why not? But again, like look at Barbie.
Speaker 2: Look at Barbie. Like that was a situation where they
Speaker 2: released a movie in such a brilliant way that it
Speaker 2: was a pretty good movie, but they did so many
Speaker 2: brand partnerships that some were you know what, Airbnb They
Speaker 2: got zero dollars on that licensing, but it was a
Speaker 2: big moment, and it created all sorts of experience, and
Speaker 2: then they sold dollars, and then they sold tickets, and
Speaker 2: then they sold lipstick, like and some of those deals
Speaker 2: yielded a lot. I think you can't look at it
Speaker 2: as a one off plan. I think you got to
Speaker 2: look at it strategically, as a holistic situation. How does
Speaker 2: this fit? If you're just trying to get as much
Speaker 2: money as possible, you're probably not going to get the deal.
Speaker 2: I just want to be honest, Like, if you how
Speaker 2: much ten million? Right? Like, you know, you'll email some
Speaker 2: of these managers. You know what it is. You talk
Speaker 2: to them and it's just like I don't edge the
Speaker 2: photo list. It's two million dollars, Okay, so now we
Speaker 2: know what the bottom line is. I don't think that's
Speaker 2: the right way to think about it, because I wouldn't
Speaker 2: be bringing you something just for the money. Look at
Speaker 2: the opportunity, hear it, consider it and if it might
Speaker 2: be worth more than the two million dollars in other
Speaker 2: opportunities or other exposure or fill category that you don't
Speaker 2: you need, or open up doors that you want. But
Speaker 2: I think probably in that range, like starting place a
Speaker 2: million dollars is probably what you want to think about
Speaker 2: if you're like wanting to do a television commercial with
Speaker 2: multiple social posts in a big service day and all
Speaker 2: these different asks for an artist in the fortune you
Speaker 2: know in the bottom half of the Spotify fifty. Again,
Speaker 2: it's not about that number. It's okay, I got that,
Speaker 2: I guess.
Speaker 1: Okay, let's I am the act, I am making a deal.
Speaker 1: Any negative possibility to me, my brand, my career from
Speaker 1: doing this deal.
Speaker 2: It depends on the authenticity. In this era more than ever,
Speaker 2: people are looking for successes. So if this partnership is
Speaker 2: not a success for the brand, for you, for your
Speaker 2: fan base, for the customer, then it is bad for
Speaker 2: your brand. It is bad for you as a person
Speaker 2: as an artist. So that is like one thing. Also authenticity,
Speaker 2: Like if you're out here talking about a brand that
Speaker 2: doesn't really align with your interests or how you're known,
Speaker 2: or there's no story or connectivity to it, it's context
Speaker 2: is so important right now, and just doing a brand
Speaker 2: partnership if it's not a success or if it doesn't connect,
Speaker 2: is bad for your brand as an artist. Even if
Speaker 2: you got paid, like I guess, you got to weigh
Speaker 2: the option and how long you want to be around,
Speaker 2: and how you want to treat your fans, and how
Speaker 2: much money you want to squeeze out of brands. But
Speaker 2: if you're thinking about this the right way, which you know,
Speaker 2: in the right conversation I think most people would, then
Speaker 2: you shouldn't hurt your brand. It should help. But you
Speaker 2: should also be thinking about doing the right partnerships at
Speaker 2: the right times, with the right partners, with the right
Speaker 2: conduits in between, to make these things come to life,
Speaker 2: because otherwise it'll fail and that'll be.
Speaker 1: Not Stay with Collin, I don't think of music whatsoever
Speaker 1: when I think of nest Quick is college such a
Speaker 1: marketing machine that as long as you have a household
Speaker 1: named brand, nothing can hurt him.
Speaker 2: He fit this vibe. I would be willing to bet
Speaker 2: he turns down more deals than he gets off. He
Speaker 2: is somebody that is family friendly, has two young sons.
Speaker 2: His young sons were involved in the sampling of the tasting.
Speaker 2: They're very prevalent in his personal brand. He rented the
Speaker 2: you know heats in Miami Heat basketball Stadium and he
Speaker 2: turns it into a big event for his son's birthday party.
Speaker 2: Like he's very intertwined with family, with multicultural, with a
Speaker 2: global reach, with being a big pop superstar with understanding brands,
Speaker 2: with being very like you know, like probably looks like
Speaker 2: he could you know, eat drink, nest quick protein shakes.
Speaker 2: You know. It's just it's it fit for him in
Speaker 2: a way that the exposure was good exposure.
Speaker 1: Okay, let let's flip the story over. How do you
Speaker 1: sell the corporation that tying up with music is good
Speaker 1: for them?
Speaker 2: First of all, music is the number one passion point
Speaker 2: of consumers, so that is just a huge place. People
Speaker 2: might not like sports, people might not like fashion, people
Speaker 2: might not like food, be footies, but everybody connects with music.
Speaker 2: So our thesis is that every brand will be able
Speaker 2: to create emotional connections through leveraging the power of music.
Speaker 2: It might be a concert, it might be an event.
Speaker 2: It might be an artist partnership. It might be a
Speaker 2: content series. It might be a licensing of a song,
Speaker 2: it might be creating an original song. There's so many
Speaker 2: ways for a brand to work in music. It might
Speaker 2: be sampling at a festival, it might be product placement
Speaker 2: in a music video. There's just so many ways to
Speaker 2: play that game right now for a brand. So our
Speaker 2: thinking is what's the brand, What are they trying to achieve?
Speaker 2: What kind of budgets are they looking at with their consumers?
Speaker 2: How do we create a program for them that is
Speaker 2: going to essentially hijack the airwaves and put them in
Speaker 2: a place where it's a lot more interesting than seeing
Speaker 2: it as a Facebook ad or seeing it as an
Speaker 2: Instagram ad, or you know, flipping through it in a
Speaker 2: magazine like or whatever. However they're marketing their brand right
Speaker 2: now in this really data focused world of blandivity like
Speaker 2: it's changed and now you want new ways to cut
Speaker 2: through the noise, and music is a great way to
Speaker 2: create a connection with a consumer. It sells products, it
Speaker 2: might not sell politics, like we saw that.
Speaker 1: Okay, so you talk about Joe vaon they've perfume with
Speaker 1: the Rolling Stones, We've found other things. Brands got really involved,
Speaker 1: and then brands pulled back. They didn't think they were
Speaker 1: getting what they were paying for. A lot of this
Speaker 1: was aligned to live shows. There became issues of signage,
Speaker 1: et cetera, et cetera. What has changed is the music
Speaker 1: business changed, or the fact that it's an online marketplace.
Speaker 1: Why are acts you mean, why are companies more interested
Speaker 1: in brand partnerships today, assuming they are.
Speaker 2: The world's changed. We're in this thing called the creator economy.
Speaker 2: We're in an era like ten years ago. We saw
Speaker 2: this boom with the gig economy, and that's when Uber
Speaker 2: and Venmo and Airbnb and all of these companies. Pinterest
Speaker 2: launched in two thousand and nine, right after the Dokop crash.
Speaker 2: It became this gig economy mixed with the technology of
Speaker 2: this mobile world that just launched a whole new era
Speaker 2: of companies. And my thinking is that we're in this
Speaker 2: similar thing Host covid, everybody came out of it, and
Speaker 2: this creator economy just exploded. And also you mix that
Speaker 2: with the AI boom and all of these new technologies
Speaker 2: coming in, and all of a sudden, there's all of
Speaker 2: these opportunities for creators to connect with brands. And really
Speaker 2: what fuels the creator economy in which why I love
Speaker 2: where we sit right now, is that brand partnerships are
Speaker 2: so important for all of these different elements. So brands
Speaker 2: know that they can harder with creators in unorthodox ways
Speaker 2: orthodox ways and get massive lift and credibility. And artists
Speaker 2: are looking at the creator economy and saying, if all
Speaker 2: these other people are doing this. Let's find the right
Speaker 2: fits for us. We've got we love certain kinds of brands.
Speaker 2: We can tell, storytell, and so it just when I
Speaker 2: look at the influencer pay for Playworld, or I look
Speaker 2: at it as like, this is a big opportunity for
Speaker 2: musicians because they're gonna wipe the floor with the influencers
Speaker 2: in terms of authenticity, in terms of creativity, in terms
Speaker 2: of reach, in terms of viability, in terms of earned media,
Speaker 2: in terms of getting pressed. So it just it's a
Speaker 2: world where more and more artists want to do brand partnerships,
Speaker 2: and more and more brands want to work with creators,
Speaker 2: and I just think it's going to continue to grow
Speaker 2: as if as long as these are done right.
Speaker 1: The music business has changed in the last twenty five years.
Speaker 1: You're working in this space. To what degree is the
Speaker 1: ACTS label involved at this point? Very little? And after
Speaker 1: effect driving the truck in the trunk, where's the label
Speaker 1: in this story?
Speaker 2: It's an exciting place to be at these labels right now.
Speaker 2: The music business all across the board is really exciting.
Speaker 2: It's just I mean, I was in this when I
Speaker 2: started in the napster era, right when I got out
Speaker 2: of college like this was placed was decimated and the
Speaker 2: record labels were just not sure what to do. Record
Speaker 2: labels are doing fantastic. I still think some of the
Speaker 2: older school mentalities of these record labels are they don't
Speaker 2: value brand partnerships. They put them in a very small
Speaker 2: component of how it works. You know, I think a
Speaker 2: lot of these older school music executives are you still
Speaker 2: looking for the hit and and really pure to that
Speaker 2: side of things. And that's great. That was a business
Speaker 2: that really worked back in the day when hits were
Speaker 2: the only thing that mattered. But I think that the
Speaker 2: labels still hold a really solid seat at the table.
Speaker 2: There's really good brand marketers. There's a lot of these
Speaker 2: deals come from labels, but the labels hold one important
Speaker 2: thing when it comes to these brand partnerships, and that's
Speaker 2: why they're invaluable. If you want the music and you
Speaker 2: want to work with a major artist, you have to
Speaker 2: involve the label for the clearances. So the labels have
Speaker 2: a seat at every table. Of these partnerships. I wouldn't
Speaker 2: think that a lot of them originate. Some probably do,
Speaker 2: but you know, the labels are not direct with the artists,
Speaker 2: so it's complicated.
Speaker 1: Let me paint a scenario. The label really used to
Speaker 1: be in control of the act's career, so they would
Speaker 1: say yes and no to a number of things. They
Speaker 1: would do one award show, they might not do another
Speaker 1: award show. They would time publicity to the release of
Speaker 1: a single. They were driving it when they are at
Speaker 1: the table. Now they're a part of it because they
Speaker 1: own the music. But it's really the act and you
Speaker 1: driving it now as opposed to the label.
Speaker 2: Look, we could do a deal with management. We could
Speaker 2: do a deal with the agencies, which have very good
Speaker 2: brand partnerships. Teams are very hungry brand partnership teams. We
Speaker 2: could do a deal with the labels. We could do
Speaker 2: a deal with the artist's friend. We could do there's
Speaker 2: so many patents.
Speaker 1: Let me let me make my question here. It used
Speaker 1: to be a pyramid where the label was on pop.
Speaker 1: One could even say that the act were slaves working
Speaker 1: for the label. Tour was an advertisement for the album.
Speaker 1: That is totally flipped. Now the album's an advertisement for
Speaker 1: the tour. There's a lot of low hanging fruit that
Speaker 1: the artist can make money independent of the label. So
Speaker 1: in your world, I'm trying to get your viewpoint I'll
Speaker 1: talk my world. Okay, the labels will buy almost no
Speaker 1: tickets for the show. They'll call you when they say
Speaker 1: you want to go. I said, yeah, well they have
Speaker 1: a buye we bought eight tickets. Doesn't make any difference
Speaker 1: to me. I can get it from the promoter. Where
Speaker 1: it used to be, they would have an unlimited budget
Speaker 1: for this. Okay. So in your world, has the artist
Speaker 1: in management become so powerful that it is driven by
Speaker 1: them and the label is more in the back seat.
Speaker 1: What does it look like?
Speaker 2: I think the labels have the big bank still. I
Speaker 2: think that the labels, maybe they're not buying the tickets
Speaker 2: because they're run by smarter people, but they they're doing
Speaker 2: better than ever. They're taking pieces of companies like Spotify
Speaker 2: that are no.
Speaker 1: No, no, no, no no. I don't want to I don't
Speaker 1: want to discuss the major I don't want to discuss
Speaker 1: the major labels. I want to discuss the major labels
Speaker 1: when it comes to brand partnerships. They come with the music.
Speaker 1: But will they throw a spin or in the works.
Speaker 1: Will they say I don't want this doesn't fit with
Speaker 1: our plan, or do they defer to the act.
Speaker 2: It really defers to the act. You know that all
Speaker 2: the decisions now are made by the act and the manager,
Speaker 2: but the labels can have creative ideas, and then the
Speaker 2: labels control the music. So the labels do if you
Speaker 2: want to license the music, which you do. It's really hard.
Speaker 2: I think that's actually one of the parts of this
Speaker 2: business that makes it very complicated, because you got to
Speaker 2: get all the writers and all the publishing, and it's
Speaker 2: just not set up in a way that it's still
Speaker 2: super archaic, like when I look at the blue sky.
Speaker 2: In this business, there's so much opportunity, like somebody could
Speaker 2: disrupt how clearing songs works. I mean, now Meta and TikTok.
Speaker 2: You can do a blanket deal, but you can't really
Speaker 2: use the music the right way, and brands don't know
Speaker 2: how to do that. It's complicated. But if you want
Speaker 2: to clear music, you need the label, and you need
Speaker 2: the publisher, and you need the artists and you need
Speaker 2: the songwriter. And that's the bottom line. So the labels
Speaker 2: have a seat at every table that involves original music
Speaker 2: being used in a commercial. And the labels have teams,
Speaker 2: although I don't think they give those teams enough respect,
Speaker 2: but they have teams that are actively pitching that are
Speaker 2: in the inner circle of an album rollout that know, Okay,
Speaker 2: I have the control of this product. The album is
Speaker 2: still very much in control of the artist. It's just
Speaker 2: like you said, album is such a superfluous part of
Speaker 2: what makes that artist big right now. It's a spokes
Speaker 2: it's a multiple streams of income, multiple streams of attention economy.
Speaker 2: So the album is important and it's a big marketing moment,
Speaker 2: and it can make a lot of money and can
Speaker 2: bring a lot of open a lot of doors. But
Speaker 2: the label is just really focused on selling albums, like
Speaker 2: whereas the manager and really the artist. But the artists
Speaker 2: know what's right for them, and then the managers are
Speaker 2: guiding that and in a lot of ways can open
Speaker 2: up doors and see things. But it's going to come
Speaker 2: down to an artist's decision. And every time I bring
Speaker 2: it off for I say, what did the artists say?
Speaker 1: Right?
Speaker 2: I understand where you're at and with the label. If
Speaker 2: you bring that to the label, just walk back with
Speaker 2: me for a second. The label that has to call
Speaker 2: the manager or if it's for a live event, the
Speaker 2: agent and then the manager and then it's got to
Speaker 2: go to the artist. There's like multiple block so to
Speaker 2: get an answer, and the label's relationship with the artists
Speaker 2: might be complicated. Sometimes the label's just going to drive it.
Speaker 2: But like, I don't think that's the path of least
Speaker 2: resistance when it comes to getting a deal, especially knowing
Speaker 2: that a lot of these people running these record labels
Speaker 2: have very little understanding or respect or appreciation for the
Speaker 2: brand partnerships or creating products with artists world. It's just
Speaker 2: not their business. They were selling records and they were
Speaker 2: selling them by the you know, CDs, and now they're
Speaker 2: in a different business. They're banks, and they're investors, and
Speaker 2: they're you know, IP holders, and they're brilliant marketers. But
Speaker 2: I just don't think they understand the brand partnership space
Speaker 2: as well as they could. And so I would probably
Speaker 2: say if I had an opportunity for an artist, again
Speaker 2: it's case by case, and I do have friends at
Speaker 2: labels that would bring me thoughts and I would jump
Speaker 2: at them, But probably the decisions are going to be
Speaker 2: made with the artists, so you want to be as
Speaker 2: close to the artists as possible.
Speaker 1: Okay, let's talk about the tour. For a long time,
Speaker 1: brand partnerships were based on tour sponsorship. We certainly still
Speaker 1: have bank tour sponsorships, MX, etc. To what degree is
Speaker 1: that still a thing with brands sponsoring tours?
Speaker 2: Massive? I mean, look at Live Nation. Look how amazing
Speaker 2: their company and their stock is. It's an all time sponsorship.
Speaker 1: I want to drill down very specifically. You make an
Speaker 1: excellent point about Live Nation and sponsorship being a huge
Speaker 1: part of their business. I'm a band. I go out
Speaker 1: every other year, I play arenas. Okay, costs are higher
Speaker 1: than ever to be on the road. Is there a
Speaker 1: brand that I can go into business with that will
Speaker 1: undercut my costs coming directly from Jesse, not for the
Speaker 1: Live Nation advertising in the building, et cetera. Are there
Speaker 1: opportunities you can bring to me to bring down my costs?
Speaker 2: Absolutely? Because I understand the nuances of the business. I
Speaker 2: know where the different corners you can cut, so working
Speaker 2: with me, you can figure out the best path of
Speaker 2: least resistance. Plus I understand the strategy. I'm not just
Speaker 2: going to sell you into a four wall theater. I'm
Speaker 2: going to tell you how you make the moment in
Speaker 2: that theater, and worry why you want to be in
Speaker 2: that theater. It's just so much more.
Speaker 1: No, I want to be very specific. Can you bring
Speaker 1: a brand to me that's going to cut my nut.
Speaker 2: That's gonna like, Am I going to make you more
Speaker 2: money or less money?
Speaker 1: Are you going to have a brand pay me when
Speaker 1: I'm on the road in exchange for something? Signage sampling?
Speaker 1: Who the hell knows? Can you sell me a deal
Speaker 1: like that?
Speaker 2: Why not? Of course? No?
Speaker 1: I mean no, I mean have you done that? Is
Speaker 1: that going on?
Speaker 2: Yeah? Yeah?
Speaker 1: Give me, give me to give me two examples.
Speaker 2: All right. So we've got an artist that we're working
Speaker 2: with a brand called Klotopaxi. They're outdoor gear brand. Their
Speaker 2: whole philosophy is gear for Good. There, you know, a
Speaker 2: small brand, not Fortune five hundred, but they've got a
Speaker 2: reputation and they're just a cool outdoor lifestyle you know,
Speaker 2: hiking and gear backpack brand, and they hired us this year.
Speaker 2: We built a strategy for them called Music for Good,
Speaker 2: where we supported artists missions that were making the world
Speaker 2: a better place that were on the road, and with
Speaker 2: certain artists we did certain partnerships. So with Tierra Wack,
Speaker 2: who is an artist that is on Interscope. She's really
Speaker 2: creative and colorful and amazing rapper and just a force
Speaker 2: of nature in terms of her creativity, and she gravitated
Speaker 2: towards the brand and really is a think uh think local,
Speaker 2: but you know, think big but act local type of person.
Speaker 2: So she was really passionate about Philadelphia and the Philadelphia
Speaker 2: school system. And we helped her to create a merch item,
Speaker 2: a pack that she is gonna tour with while a
Speaker 2: while doing chows and selling on her merch booths and
Speaker 2: selling at her her on her website as well, and
Speaker 2: the brand is going to create it. It's going to
Speaker 2: be way higher end than anybody else. This brand is
Speaker 2: going to make in terms of a pack. It's sustainable,
Speaker 2: it's triple bottom line, it's got a brand push, there's
Speaker 2: an endorsement component. We've already done something together where we
Speaker 2: told her story and we elevated her voice through the
Speaker 2: original partnership, and it's just a natural progression. As she tour,
Speaker 2: she's going to make more money selling more of these
Speaker 2: packs and have something really cool for her audience. So yeah,
Speaker 2: I mean, there's ways that brands could integrate into the
Speaker 2: artist's show. It could be just we want to be
Speaker 2: in your green room, right Like sometimes when we do
Speaker 2: a deal with an artist. We launched the agency when
Speaker 2: we rebranded the company from representing artists to representing brands.
Speaker 2: Our first project was this thing called the Patch House,
Speaker 2: and sour Patch was our client, and we had all
Speaker 2: of these different We took over these different houses and
Speaker 2: we outfitted them with all this different style and panache,
Speaker 2: and it was this place where artists would stay while
Speaker 2: they were touring. Instead of in a white wall hotel
Speaker 2: where after their band is sleeping on couches, they could
Speaker 2: all stay in this beautiful brownstone in Brooklyn, and in exchange,
Speaker 2: they would create content and eventually we would be put
Speaker 2: on artists, writers, and we would be supporting artists. Hey,
Speaker 2: I want to do a Papa, I want to do
Speaker 2: a meet and greet experience at the show, and we
Speaker 2: would do a sour Patch Kids support in that regard,
Speaker 2: or we would you know, give away sour Patch Kids,
Speaker 2: or we would help the all sorts of different ways.
Speaker 2: So like if you're a touring artist, there's infinitment ways
Speaker 2: that brands can be involved. Now, if you're smart, you
Speaker 2: know that the five hundred, ten thousand people in the
Speaker 2: room are cool, But what really could matter is the
Speaker 2: ten million people online that could see this or the
Speaker 2: even more if you target these posts once they're done right,
Speaker 2: you can retarget it to even more people. So it's
Speaker 2: I think sponsoring an artist on the road would be
Speaker 2: a small component of the way that an artist and
Speaker 2: a brand should work together.
Speaker 1: Okay, you're in this sphere. How many Jesse kirschbombs are
Speaker 1: in this sphere.
Speaker 2: I think that there's a bunch of people that understand
Speaker 2: brands and have are into artists and do artists partnerships.
Speaker 2: I think that there's you know, there's always you just
Speaker 2: had John con on the show. He's kind of an
Speaker 2: og legend in this space. I have a lot of
Speaker 2: respect for what he did with Cornerstone Agency, and you know,
Speaker 2: Marcy Allen and was it was another one that just
Speaker 2: did it so well. And Steve Stout's at the top
Speaker 2: of his game doing these type of partnerships. So there
Speaker 2: are companies that are doing this really well. And then
Speaker 2: there's a lot of brand partnership agencies, and then there's
Speaker 2: a lot of brand partnerships divisions, and then there's a
Speaker 2: lot of brand partnerships folks. So I think that there's
Speaker 2: a lot of people that do this. I mean and
Speaker 2: then I don't know if they do it the same
Speaker 2: way I do it. I have my own unique way
Speaker 2: of doing things, and that our company does it its
Speaker 2: own way. Like we're new agency, we want to do
Speaker 2: things different. We've always tried to focus on what's next,
Speaker 2: and you know, we're really driven by creativity and opportunity
Speaker 2: and entrepreneurial spirit, and we just look at it our way.
Speaker 2: We have our own format to what works and what doesn't.
Speaker 2: And really what the difference between us, I think in
Speaker 2: most is that we're really into the trends we eat like.
Speaker 2: That's something that I love about you. I remember all
Speaker 2: the times I would, you know, bring you to Internet
Speaker 2: Week or bring you to sound control events, or have
Speaker 2: you at music gaming content. It was because I just
Speaker 2: couldn't understand how you were so on the pulse of culture.
Speaker 2: It was so inspiring, and you still are. Your opinion
Speaker 2: pieces just rock my world. And so I am now
Speaker 2: a avid understander of the trends. I you know, my
Speaker 2: newsletter I read. I scan a thousand articles every week,
Speaker 2: I read one hundred I select ten. It's a love
Speaker 2: letter to the music business. You know. I really try
Speaker 2: to share my insights and what I think is going
Speaker 2: to be valuable.
Speaker 1: Okay, okay, how many people receive that newsletter? And what
Speaker 1: is the benefit of the newsletter?
Speaker 2: Well, the benefit of the newsletter is that it's first
Speaker 2: of all, for me, it's like going to the trends
Speaker 2: gym every week. I am on the pulse. Now after
Speaker 2: ten eight years of doing this, I really am seeing
Speaker 2: everything happening in the music and brand space and it
Speaker 2: just allows me to really understand and beyond the pulse
Speaker 2: of this all. And then it just allows me to
Speaker 2: start connecting dots and seeing the landscape. So much of
Speaker 2: this is not in the real world anymore. So much
Speaker 2: of this is what's going on online and how you're
Speaker 2: able to disseminate information and formulate POV. And then it's
Speaker 2: a serendipity bomb. Every week it goes out to thousands,
Speaker 2: tens of thousands of people in the music business, and
Speaker 2: you never know who's it's coming back to. It's music business,
Speaker 2: it's brand marketers, it's music aficionados, it's passionate fans, it's
Speaker 2: become it's people that I know from all walks of
Speaker 2: my life. It's it's a whole marketing bomb. Plus it
Speaker 2: keeps me top of mind every single week. It's my
Speaker 2: gift to everybody. You want to know what's going on
Speaker 2: in music, it's this is what I'm seeing. And then
Speaker 2: on top of it, it's because of LinkedIn, it's become
Speaker 2: the biggest music newsletter and music and brand newsletter on LinkedIn.
Speaker 2: So that's a whole other audience that's got all sorts
Speaker 2: of other scalability potential. But it's just also allows me
Speaker 2: to kind of be able to put forecasts together, to
Speaker 2: build trend reports for clients, to build our own trend
Speaker 2: reports that we think is happening. It's just it's it's
Speaker 2: a great exercise. It's a lot of work, it's a
Speaker 2: lot of fun. And all of a sudden, the culture
Speaker 2: has changed. It's become a newsletter world. Like the folks
Speaker 2: that are doing these newsletters are all of a sudden,
Speaker 2: in some ways more powerful than the publications. Like you
Speaker 2: know this firsthand. You greatly benefited from being one of
Speaker 2: the most influential voices in music as a newsletter and
Speaker 2: bucking the system and doing it on your terms, in
Speaker 2: your way. And now all of a sudden, everybody's in
Speaker 2: this substack culture. And I don't even think they understand
Speaker 2: how to read the trends. I don't even understand they
Speaker 2: understand some.
Speaker 1: Of the data.
Speaker 2: Some are really talented. Substat's paying them to do that.
Speaker 1: Great.
Speaker 2: It's creating this whole new world disinformated, disintermediated media. It's
Speaker 2: own media versus earned media. And I think having a
Speaker 2: platform is so important. So every week I speak on
Speaker 2: my megaphone about things that I've met, important to me
Speaker 2: for my clients, or what I think the industry or
Speaker 2: my audience would appreciate. And it's just been a very
Speaker 2: very valuable lead generation for us, opportunity to connect with people,
Speaker 2: and also just on a personal level. It's really honed
Speaker 2: my craft.
Speaker 1: Okay, your brother is trolling for business, you know in
Speaker 1: direct marketing, one percent is a good to argue how
Speaker 1: wide is his net? How much is he working on that?
Speaker 1: And how many projects do you work in a year?
Speaker 2: Yeah? I mean how big can we make our voice? Right? Like,
Speaker 2: I get a lot of now, the calls, a lot
Speaker 2: of the all of the projects that are coming in
Speaker 2: are mostly in bound. Right. Somebody sees something in a
Speaker 2: newsletter and it makes them think, Okay, let me ask
Speaker 2: you a question about this, or let's have a conversation
Speaker 2: or where should we thinking of? Which we should we be
Speaker 2: thinking about, and so that's a lot of it is
Speaker 2: coming into us just based on our conversation. And then
Speaker 2: Alex's hand to hand combat and he's also a relationships person.
Speaker 2: My brother's a lot more fun than I am. You know,
Speaker 2: he's the he's the life of the party, and he's
Speaker 2: just a really solid guy. Like he's just one of
Speaker 2: these people that prides himself on his word is what
Speaker 2: he's going to do, and that's how he operates. And
Speaker 2: so I think people like working with them, and I
Speaker 2: think people like like taking his call. So I might
Speaker 2: meet somebody and then he'll know what to do with it.
Speaker 2: Or he might meet somebody and we'll both have a
Speaker 2: conversation and then he'll stay in touch. And so a
Speaker 2: lot of my thinking at this point is the news
Speaker 2: is scaling is like I can't you know, I'm more
Speaker 2: trying to attract versus go after one by one. If
Speaker 2: I'm working on like I'm trying to work my to
Speaker 2: do list and not my inbox, and I'm really focused
Speaker 2: on what i want to achieve as the CEO of
Speaker 2: the company. It's about vision, it's about recruiting, but he's
Speaker 2: a very good salesperson. I mean, how many of these
Speaker 2: clients can we handle? We still, you know, we're servicing
Speaker 2: big fortune one hundred brand clients and conglomerates, so these
Speaker 2: take a lot of effort, They take a lot of bandwidth.
Speaker 2: We're not like, you know, trying to over subscribe us. Like,
Speaker 2: we want to work with great clients that want to
Speaker 2: do great things, and we want to do great business
Speaker 2: for them. And you know, I think the dream would be,
Speaker 2: now we've been independent for a long time and we've
Speaker 2: really built a good, good system, would be it would
Speaker 2: be nice to have a bigger stage. It would you know,
Speaker 2: obviously there's some downside with that, but it would be
Speaker 2: nice to have more impact, to have more clients, to
Speaker 2: have the ability to grow this company alongside of somebody
Speaker 2: that really knows how to grow a company like this,
Speaker 2: because our strength is in making these pop culture moments
Speaker 2: and storytelling and creating these opportunities and really being on
Speaker 2: the pust of the trends and seeing where things are going.
Speaker 2: Like that's what gets me excited, right, like talking about
Speaker 2: the blue sky of like you know, people think that
Speaker 2: this doom and gloom I'm like, do you know what
Speaker 2: this music business looks like right now? This is an
Speaker 2: amazing place. Like everything is, there's just so much opportunity.
Speaker 1: Okay, Okay, you made a left turn a couple of
Speaker 1: years ago to dream Stage. Tell us why you did that,
Speaker 1: what the experience was, and how it ended.
Speaker 2: I'm a believer that you've got to be constantly reinventing
Speaker 2: yourself and trying things and so like. At first, I
Speaker 2: started my career signing and developing artists. Right My first
Speaker 2: start was throwing parties. I was a promoter, you know,
Speaker 2: throwing my high school keg parties. And then I was
Speaker 2: the president of my high school, and I was always
Speaker 2: including music because I knew music was this great amplifier.
Speaker 2: And then when I got to college, you know, I
Speaker 2: was like, oh wow, I could be in a business.
Speaker 2: I could study business and actually be in the business
Speaker 2: of music. So I ended up pivoting to being in
Speaker 2: the business school at my college and then learning learning
Speaker 2: music on the side, doing internships and climbing those ranks.
Speaker 2: I started representing artists and that was was a totally
Speaker 2: different bag. As an indie agency, finding and developing talent
Speaker 2: and had a lot of success in that. After I
Speaker 2: stopped that business model about seven years in, I started
Speaker 2: to look at what I thought was next, which was
Speaker 2: there was a big opportunity with brands, and so we
Speaker 2: went deep into the brand marketing space and we ended
Speaker 2: up working with more and more brands, and ultimately it
Speaker 2: led to a really solid run until the pandemic happened.
Speaker 2: And then I looked at what was going on and
Speaker 2: I realized, we're no longer in an office. I can
Speaker 2: no longer go shake hands, I can no longer go
Speaker 2: see people at conferences. Everything is on clubhouse. The world
Speaker 2: was changing and we needed to be savvy. We needed
Speaker 2: to be smart about what was going on. And I
Speaker 2: was just looking for something fresh, a new experience, something
Speaker 2: that wasn't running a small boutique agency every week trying
Speaker 2: to keep the lights on. So I saw the NFT world,
Speaker 2: I saw the live streaming space, I saw the brand
Speaker 2: partnerships world, and I started to say, Okay, there's a
Speaker 2: big opportunity. A headhunter called me Cia had hunting right,
Speaker 2: because when I sit now, I work with all the agencies,
Speaker 2: I work with all the labels. When I was an agent,
Speaker 2: I didn't sleep well at night let's just say I
Speaker 2: looked a lot older at thirty five than I do
Speaker 2: at forty five. Everybody was out to get me because
Speaker 2: it was such a doggy dog world. This is a
Speaker 2: very creative, collaborative world. So CIA started calling me, bringing
Speaker 2: me opportunities. Hey, would you want to look at you know,
Speaker 2: one job was the chief entertainment officer at Barclay Center.
Speaker 2: They just were considering new ownership. They wanted to be
Speaker 2: really innovative. They knew I was tech forward. I'd always
Speaker 2: be friend of the tech industry. I really believe tech
Speaker 2: was the savior of the music business. Smart bet it's
Speaker 2: worked out. But then my dream Stage called, and dream
Speaker 2: Stage just received this funding and they had these really
Speaker 2: seasoned artists and see, and they were looking for somebody
Speaker 2: that could immediately come in and be the CMO. And
Speaker 2: I'm in a world of cmos. Those are my clients,
Speaker 2: those are my peers, those are my people. It's nice
Speaker 2: to be on the brand side, right, Like I'm now
Speaker 2: cutting checks at dream Stage, right we have two million
Speaker 2: dollars to spend on artists and shows, Like, let's go
Speaker 2: figure out what artists we should book. Let's be innovative
Speaker 2: on our process, let's try to sell tickets to people online. Ultimately,
Speaker 2: the live streaming world wasn't that great for these indie
Speaker 2: live streaming companies, and I think a lot of them
Speaker 2: took it on the chin. I was the larger shareholder
Speaker 2: of the company besides the founders. But like they sold,
Speaker 2: they sold, they merged, and they sold, and you know,
Speaker 2: a year and a half in like their investors stopped
Speaker 2: paying and it just became a really hard situation during
Speaker 2: the pandemic to to be at a agent at a
Speaker 2: a live stream company that you know, has no staff
Speaker 2: and it can it's having a hard time pulling off
Speaker 2: these events. So they ended up selling to Drift, which
Speaker 2: really creative team that we'd been partnering with and doing
Speaker 2: these amazing shows. Like you know, sixty thousand people were
Speaker 2: coming to some of these shows, but less and less
Speaker 2: people after the pandemic stopped, a lot of people stopped
Speaker 2: wanting to go to the live stream show. Who wants
Speaker 2: to go to a show right when you're coming out
Speaker 2: of the pandemic, you want to be outside. Everybody was outside,
Speaker 2: So it was a hard sell. We did a couple
Speaker 2: of brand deals, We did a couple of artist deals,
Speaker 2: but ultimately I ended up calling my brother and saying,
Speaker 2: I need you to put me back on health insurance
Speaker 2: because I'm coming home. And that's the beauty of you know,
Speaker 2: still owning a company and having your brother operate it.
Speaker 2: And uh, I was able to make a pretty seamless
Speaker 2: transition when they sold and you know, shut down the
Speaker 2: doors and ended up using the dream stage technology to
Speaker 2: to fall into drift into Deezer. The thesis worked out right,
Speaker 2: the plan was there. Just unfortunately live streaming the bed
Speaker 2: on these smaller companies. Just they couldn't compete with Amazon,
Speaker 2: they couldn't compete with YouTube, they couldn't compete with Apple.
Speaker 2: I still believe in in live streaming, and I thought
Speaker 2: it was fun to be the CMO of this company.
Speaker 2: I learned a lot, It was a good challenge and
Speaker 2: I was there for a year. But ultimately, you know,
Speaker 2: I kept a foot in the door and had a
Speaker 2: carve out with New Agency. I was still writing my
Speaker 2: newsletter and pretty quickly I was able to transition back
Speaker 2: into New Agency, and and you know, it's a new
Speaker 2: world with the pandemic over and you know, live streaming
Speaker 2: being less interesting and Web three falling apart, and like
Speaker 2: you know, all that kind of hype of COVID, it's
Speaker 2: just like this little cottage industry. As we head into
Speaker 2: what feels like again a whole new era. I feel
Speaker 2: like my thesis now is all changing again, right, Like
Speaker 2: I feel like what happens with the election now all
Speaker 2: of a sudden's created a whole new dynamic in the universe,
Speaker 2: and it's really hard to understand, like the exact clear
Speaker 2: vision of what we're going into. And I know a
Speaker 2: lot of people are having a hard time with it,
Speaker 2: and you know, believe me, I it was a kick
Speaker 2: in the in the in the stomach, but like you know,
Speaker 2: you kind of have to look for the opportunities here
Speaker 2: to do what you do and find new lanes. So
Speaker 2: it's a fun time again because I feel like as
Speaker 2: much of a crazy world or we're in, it's also
Speaker 2: I think going to be a new world order where
Speaker 2: you know, who knows what's going to happen.
Speaker 1: Okay, so you moved to Miami. Why did you move
Speaker 1: to Miami? And tell us about being in Miami.
Speaker 2: I moved to Miami for love. So during the pandemic,
Speaker 2: me and my girlfriend at the time, we were living
Speaker 2: in Brooklyn. We moved in together and then we became
Speaker 2: pandemic nomads and we traveled and then eventually she said,
Speaker 2: I want to move to Miami. I you know, there's
Speaker 2: a lot of good things to be in Miami, and
Speaker 2: so I she said, would you come with me and
Speaker 2: to be with her? I said, yes, there are a
Speaker 2: lot of perks to being in Miami. It's not it's
Speaker 2: obviously great weather, and it's a it's a really fun
Speaker 2: hospitality scene, and there are some great brands here you
Speaker 2: know that I've been able to connect with and you know,
Speaker 2: as of late, be able to do some shoots with.
Speaker 2: It's not New York. It's where as it sounds. It's
Speaker 2: a lot smaller a pond. You can definitely wrap your
Speaker 2: arms around it. But it is a city that feels
Speaker 2: like it's being built for the future. You go to
Speaker 2: New York, which I love and I'm from. You go
Speaker 2: to Paris, you feel like these are classic cities that
Speaker 2: were built for an era. You come to Miami is
Speaker 2: just always moving and grooving. There's just so much new
Speaker 2: things popping up. Like I live in between the Design
Speaker 2: District and Wynwood. It is just so nice. Everything's walkable,
Speaker 2: the beach is fourteen minutes away, and there are really
Speaker 2: good people here. Like if you're in Miami, you know,
Speaker 2: you're probably evading taxes or you don't have to go
Speaker 2: to an office. So it's a very high quality community
Speaker 2: of friends that I've made here. But I will say
Speaker 2: three years in that a lot of the people that
Speaker 2: came here have now left. It was a COVID haven
Speaker 2: in a lot of ways. And it's changing. Uh so
Speaker 2: you know, thank goodness for Art Basel and the winter
Speaker 2: I think is going to be fantastic, and it's a
Speaker 2: great place to visit. And it's definitely not the Miami
Speaker 2: of old. It's definitely a new Miami that's happened here
Speaker 2: and and that's exciting. Uh It's just, you know, at
Speaker 2: one point, I was hoping this was going to be
Speaker 2: this like tech have in in this like it's just
Speaker 2: not that. It's uh it's a it's a it's a
Speaker 2: great hospitality place and and it's a great place to
Speaker 2: live and to recharge. But I feel like I gotta
Speaker 2: get on a plane every three to five days at
Speaker 2: this point to really be Do.
Speaker 1: You get on a plane every three to five days?
Speaker 2: It feels like it these days. Yeah, I mean if
Speaker 2: you're between the conference circuit and the events that are
Speaker 2: happening and meetings that need to go down. Yeah, I were.
Speaker 2: I'm constantly on a move. It's a great place to recharge.
Speaker 2: It's a place where I can go. You know, the
Speaker 2: airport's fifteen everything's fifteen minutes away, and it's just a
Speaker 2: really easy, good quality of life. But the bigger opportunities
Speaker 2: if you're not in your office, which I love just
Speaker 2: working from here with my team strapped in and just
Speaker 2: kind of firing away, if you want to touch hands
Speaker 2: and see people and put people put things together. In
Speaker 2: that capacity, I think it's important to be. It's a
Speaker 2: it's a constant traveler.
Speaker 1: Okay. You mentioned at the top you have two other
Speaker 1: projects you're working on. Tell me about those.
Speaker 2: Well. We talked a little about the Codo Paxy, which
Speaker 2: is the outdoor gear brand. Music for Good, which is
Speaker 2: a program we launched this year and that just came
Speaker 2: out in September with Danny Ocean, who is a Venezuelan
Speaker 2: artist that came over from Venezuela just a backpack and
Speaker 2: a microphone, and we told his stories. Very passionate about
Speaker 2: the Venezuelan migrant movement, and so we highlighted him that
Speaker 2: really aligned with the brand, which is really supportive of refugees.
Speaker 2: And then you know Quotapox. He was a concept before
Speaker 2: it was even a product, and now it's starting to
Speaker 2: pick up more and more traction. We had a great
Speaker 2: debut in Billboard for this campaign. It was in complex
Speaker 2: and so we partnered with Danny, We parted with Tierra,
Speaker 2: We did some stuff with Global Citizen. We isolated a
Speaker 2: couple opportunities, and now it's you know, become this music
Speaker 2: for good. Is this innovative way to support artists instead
Speaker 2: of sponsoring the artists again. At one time, I was
Speaker 2: working with Pharrell on a project and it was with Oreo,
Speaker 2: and he said to me, Jesse, I don't want to
Speaker 2: hold the cookie. I don't think that's cool. Like I
Speaker 2: want to work with this brand. I want to do
Speaker 2: something super innovative, Like I want to see where they
Speaker 2: make the Oreos. I want to turn every manhole in
Speaker 2: New York into an Oreo. I want to like do
Speaker 2: something epic. I want to design the uniforms for the workers.
Speaker 2: But I don't want to hold the cookie. That's not
Speaker 2: cool and for I just it's stuck with me, like,
Speaker 2: that's an artist that's got a vision and that's the
Speaker 2: way a brand can support an artist in a way
Speaker 2: that's way more innovative. So with Koto Boxy, they get
Speaker 2: it and they're supporting artists missions like how do we
Speaker 2: help artists make the world a better place? And let's
Speaker 2: tell their story and help them with that. And so
Speaker 2: that's been a campaign that we launched and recently we
Speaker 2: shot that in August and Miami and Philadelphia. And then
Speaker 2: we also we worked with Craig Doctor Pepper and so
Speaker 2: we did a coffee for their their Matcafe, their McDonald's
Speaker 2: collaboration that really was speaking to the young Latin audience.
Speaker 2: And we did a partnership with an artist named mun
Speaker 2: I is a reggaetome superstar, and we launched this kind
Speaker 2: of campaign to talk about the product. And then what
Speaker 2: we did is we did something fun. We kind of
Speaker 2: we wanted to create an IRL experience, right, we got
Speaker 2: the artist, we got the content, and then we want
Speaker 2: to create this kind of hook, this moment, and so
Speaker 2: we had him playing where he was playing on tour,
Speaker 2: he was playing live and we did a sound check
Speaker 2: this elevated sound check experience for his fans where they
Speaker 2: could come to the soundcheck, watch him soundcheck, and have
Speaker 2: a cafecito with Lunai. And so we styled it out.
Speaker 2: We put his image, you know, all the bells and whistles,
Speaker 2: his images in the currig. Doctor Pat Curry got mecafe
Speaker 2: coffee cup, and we had these one hundred fans and
Speaker 2: press right, you know, we had Page six, we had
Speaker 2: People Magazine, we had oh La, we had Telemundo there
Speaker 2: and he's doing interviews, he's making sure that the show
Speaker 2: is going to be right. A couple lucky fans got
Speaker 2: to go to the show that night. And then also
Speaker 2: he is in the you know, giving these fans this
Speaker 2: intimate experience like being able to go see a sound
Speaker 2: check in this really nice way for an artist, and
Speaker 2: being able to connect with the artists in that way.
Speaker 2: Like it was just a really different spin on an
Speaker 2: artist's kind of partnership and collapse. And obviously there's social
Speaker 2: posts and all those different components to it, and it's
Speaker 2: you know, second year partnership, and it was it was fun.
Speaker 2: We shot that also in Miami and we then did
Speaker 2: the you know, Club Live Dave Grutman Club partnership also
Speaker 2: to do the sound check all in Miami. So these
Speaker 2: were just like interesting Miami experiences. And then you know
Speaker 2: what I'm really excited about right now is Art Puzzle.
Speaker 2: So Art Possel kind of transformed Miami the same way
Speaker 2: that's south By Southwest transfer formed Austin, and it's become
Speaker 2: this monster pop culture moment. And you know that's spun
Speaker 2: all these other different brands. But Art Puzzle Proper has
Speaker 2: now been purchased by James Murdock and has brought a
Speaker 2: whole new team of rock star executives in and they
Speaker 2: are kind of transforming what this brand could be because
Speaker 2: it's just so much bigger than the you know, bear
Speaker 2: itself now in terms of impact, and so we are
Speaker 2: working with them on brand partnerships, on strategy, on pop
Speaker 2: culture moments, and so this was it's gonna be this
Speaker 2: massive moment. We got our arms wrapped around all these
Speaker 2: different events. There's all sorts of different brands sponsoring different things,
Speaker 2: and so working with Art Puzzle, working with the different
Speaker 2: brands coming into my home city, it's just going to
Speaker 2: be like a big end of the year extravaganza to
Speaker 2: kind of Close Out twenty twenty four in music and
Speaker 2: art in lifestyle, and so that should be exciting. And then,
Speaker 2: like you know, just recently, someone like Lin Manuel Miranda's
Speaker 2: team reached out to us, who he just released this
Speaker 2: Warriors project. It's awesome. It's reimagining the movie Warriors, which
Speaker 2: he was the total love of. He was this total
Speaker 2: kind of nerd growing up watching Warriors. When he was four.
Speaker 2: He and his friend Lisa reimagined the lyrics to celebrate
Speaker 2: the forty fifth anniversary of Warriors into a rap album.
Speaker 2: But all the cast is female and it's just such
Speaker 2: a cool project. So he put it out a couple
Speaker 2: of weeks ago, and now we're gonna be working with
Speaker 2: him to kind of do this experience where we're going
Speaker 2: to introduce him to a lot of brands and kind
Speaker 2: of create partnerships around this project and help him to
Speaker 2: make this album a real pop culture moment wherever it goes,
Speaker 2: if it ends up on Broadway, if it ends up,
Speaker 2: you know, winning Kleos, if it ends up at the
Speaker 2: Grammys next year. It helps him tell the story by
Speaker 2: amplifying it with some great partners that wouldn't necessarily have
Speaker 2: access to Lin Manuel Monster playwright and super talent to
Speaker 2: be able to work with them in this kind of
Speaker 2: cool capacity on a passion project that's got a lot
Speaker 2: of legs. So that's coming up in the next couple
Speaker 2: of weeks. We've got a lot of these kind of
Speaker 2: fun things coming to finish out the year.
Speaker 1: Okay. In terms of exposure in music, we had radio,
Speaker 1: we had MTV. Today you can get a review in
Speaker 1: a newspaper. Is the audience even reading the newspaper? What
Speaker 1: works for a brand and a musical act in terms
Speaker 1: of exposure, What is the best way to reach people?
Speaker 2: My opinion is that we see the shift, and the
Speaker 2: shift has happened, and where there's a lot of lessons
Speaker 2: that are going to come out of this this marketing
Speaker 2: cycle around the election, and one of them is that
Speaker 2: people aren't reading. A lot of these newspapers are losing
Speaker 2: their their I would say credibility and clout. It's you know,
Speaker 2: I'm an avid New York Times reader. I love the
Speaker 2: New York Times. Time. I almost at this point I
Speaker 2: feel like unsubscribing except on Sunday and the hard copy,
Speaker 2: just because it's just not necessarily giving you the most
Speaker 2: relevant information. Some of the reporters are, so I think, actually,
Speaker 2: like an article in the newspaper, people aren't going to
Speaker 2: read it. Sure it looks good and people share it,
Speaker 2: but the best way to reach people is really on
Speaker 2: social media through citizen journalists, and the best best way
Speaker 2: to do it is through the podcasts. Podcasts are so personal,
Speaker 2: they're so intimate, you're in somebody's ear. You really feel
Speaker 2: like you have a relationship with these these people, these
Speaker 2: these thought leaders, these these people that are questioning or
Speaker 2: this discourse. So I feel like podcasts and newsletters are
Speaker 2: really the best place to get information, and I think
Speaker 2: the rest of it is in a lot of ways
Speaker 2: clickbait and biased and through corporations kind of with agendas.
Speaker 2: So if I was going to put a message out,
Speaker 2: if I was going to release an artist, it seems
Speaker 2: pretty clear that what worked in the past is not
Speaker 2: what's going to work in the current. And I think
Speaker 2: there's a big opportunity to reinvent artists, rollouts, brand rollouts, storytelling,
Speaker 2: utilizing folks like yourself and myself that are just consistently
Speaker 2: create original ideas. Because what resonates more than anything right
Speaker 2: now is authenticity. There is a strong move back to
Speaker 2: what is real, Like I feel like I know you.
Speaker 2: I've been reading your stuff for fifteen years. I, like
Speaker 2: so many of us, You're a treasure in this space.
Speaker 2: How much you've given to all of us of yourself.
Speaker 2: And I look up to you because of that. And
Speaker 2: you've been doing it. Before it was necessarily a hip
Speaker 2: and now like you're the you know, the granddaddy of
Speaker 2: doing this. And I just think that this is the
Speaker 2: trend that more and more people want, they want authenticity
Speaker 2: and it works. Like I just to give an example,
Speaker 2: like I just did something with Read Hastings, founder of Netflix,
Speaker 2: and he, you know, he came and spoken at an
Speaker 2: event that and I brought him out for it. I
Speaker 2: knew the landscape and thought this would be a good
Speaker 2: person to have speak. He's launching Powder Mountain. He's got
Speaker 2: his next invention, his next platform. He's he's taken this
Speaker 2: the Summit Mountain and he's turning it where I actually
Speaker 2: saw you there. I've got a great fireside. But he's
Speaker 2: now tricking this over and he's reinventing it for what
Speaker 2: he thinks is going to be one of the great
Speaker 2: ski experiences. But he needs to get the word out
Speaker 2: there so New York Times did an amazing piece. He's
Speaker 2: got a Terrell and art fair or art festival, like
Speaker 2: a live art exhibits in the ski track its or
Speaker 2: just skiing. He's got all of that and that's fine.
Speaker 2: New York Times cool. What moved the needle for him
Speaker 2: and what really got him the results was a Tim
Speaker 2: Ferriss podcast, And I've thought about that when his publicist
Speaker 2: mentioned that to me, and I said, you know what,
Speaker 2: that's why I reached out to you, because I heard
Speaker 2: him on Tim Ferriss. The New York Times was fine,
Speaker 2: but that didn't move the culture. So having people on
Speaker 2: platforms like podcasts, I think are way more powerful. Article
Speaker 2: and Rolling Stone that's behind a pay wall and it's
Speaker 2: got a political slant and it's just surrounded by ads.
Speaker 2: It just doesn't feel the same as directly talking to
Speaker 2: consumers with real intention.
Speaker 1: Jesse, you've been in the game for a while. Before
Speaker 1: we leave this, what's your greatest hit?
Speaker 2: I am so about the next right If you ask
Speaker 2: me what music I'm listening to. I love what New
Speaker 2: Music Friday serves up. I love what YouTube's trending. New
Speaker 2: music releases are like in a world where there's one
Speaker 2: hundred and twenty thousand songs coming out a day on
Speaker 2: these platforms. It's really hard to keep up with it all.
Speaker 2: And it's just what's most exciting to me is I
Speaker 2: think the opportunity to keep going and to keep building.
Speaker 2: Like I've discovered that the key to life in my
Speaker 2: mind is compounding, and that's compounding in all forms, compounding
Speaker 2: in relationships, compounding and wisdom, compounding in experience, in everything.
Speaker 2: So when you think about in love, like compounding is
Speaker 2: the great power and the only way to stop compounding
Speaker 2: is to give up. So I want to do this forever,
Speaker 2: like you said it on a podcast recently, like you
Speaker 2: want to do this. You're going to do this to
Speaker 2: the day that you croak, And like I look at you,
Speaker 2: I look at Rupert Murdoch, I look at people in
Speaker 2: their eighties and just still in the game, and you know,
Speaker 2: warm Buffett, like these are people that are seeing the
Speaker 2: fruits of all of their work. So to me, it's
Speaker 2: not about a one hit wonder or greatest hit. It's
Speaker 2: about consistently showing up every day and giving it your
Speaker 2: best and taking the lumps and just trying to do
Speaker 2: a little bit better. Across the board in every way,
Speaker 2: and to me, I feel like the sky, just like
Speaker 2: tomorrow should be better than today, and that's what keeps
Speaker 2: my energy so up.
Speaker 1: You're definitely be Jesse. I'm sure you've informed a lot
Speaker 1: of people. You're deep in the space. People are fascinated
Speaker 1: by it. I want to thank you so much for
Speaker 1: taking this time with my audience, Bob.
Speaker 2: I really really appreciate it. Thank you for the time,
Speaker 2: Thank you for the platform. These moments mean so much
Speaker 2: to me. We've got some great photos and images over
Speaker 2: the years. I wish we were doing this on Zoom.
Speaker 2: I've got so many ideas and thoughts for you. I'm
Speaker 2: rooting for you completely, and I just hope you know,
Speaker 2: keep doing what you're doing for all of us, because
Speaker 2: you know, even if we disagree, it makes us think.
Speaker 2: And that's what this is about. Right now, critical thinking
Speaker 2: is in an all time high.
Speaker 1: Well. Definitely, the words you've had today have made people think.
Speaker 1: I want to thank you. I want to thank the
Speaker 1: audience till next time. This is Bob Loff said