Speaker 1: The following is a production of Dallas Cowboys dot Com
Speaker 1: and the Dallas Cowboys Football Club. This is the player's
Speaker 1: level broadcasting line from Dallas Cowboys World headquarters at the Star. Hi,
Speaker 1: everybody knew he scrugged. Here, longtime Cowboys reporter joined by
Speaker 1: former Dallas Cowboys Jesse Holly and Everson Walls. We got
Speaker 1: forty five minutes to break down and get into a
Speaker 1: whole bunch of Dallas Cowboys topics with you. Everson. How
Speaker 1: are we doing today? My man? I'm doing well. Man.
Speaker 1: We can go one hour. I'm good. You know. I
Speaker 1: don't get it. I don't get any overtime, but still
Speaker 1: I can go one hour today. This our last show
Speaker 1: of the week, right, Yes it is, Yes it is.
Speaker 1: And I just want to be like Jesse Holly. Jesse
Speaker 1: Holly is a morning guy you're seeing post on Twitter
Speaker 1: all the time. I see him on Twitter every morning
Speaker 1: waving his T shirts. Listen as the youngest. As the
Speaker 1: youngest person on this podcast, I should not be the
Speaker 1: one who are who is the happiest about seeing the
Speaker 1: next day. I'm the youngest one here. I'm just saying
Speaker 1: a lot. You ever seen you and knew you guys.
Speaker 1: You know what I'm saying. We should be a card.
Speaker 1: We should be we should be all excited about seeing
Speaker 1: the next day. I should not be the excited person
Speaker 1: about seeing. If I was doing some of that stuff
Speaker 1: that you did, I'd be tired right now. I'd be
Speaker 1: taking it now if I was that excited every morning, Mercy,
Speaker 1: I am a morning person. Jesse. Is interesting you say that.
Speaker 1: And here we are on Veteran's Day, and and we
Speaker 1: salute all of our veterans out there, specially my father
Speaker 1: who served in the army. I was. I was born
Speaker 1: in Germany. And here's where my my distain, you could say,
Speaker 1: for getting up in the morning was. Look, when we
Speaker 1: lived on base, you could hear the soldiers running in
Speaker 1: the morning, and and my dad obviously had to get
Speaker 1: up and do the pt and and there was one
Speaker 1: commercial that they used to air when I was a kid,
Speaker 1: when they were promoting the army, and they said, we
Speaker 1: do more things before before nine am than most people
Speaker 1: do all days, right, And I used to say to myself, yeah,
Speaker 1: my goal was not to get up before nine ams.
Speaker 1: That was my goal. Once I got out of my
Speaker 1: dad's house, man, it's like, uh, I didn't take any
Speaker 1: classes in college before nine ams. I was to men,
Speaker 1: I was gonna do anything. I was trying to. Nine
Speaker 1: thirty was by the Earl Sun tried to get a
Speaker 1: class nine thirty ten o'clock. So we have no we
Speaker 1: had no choice, right two of days, three of days,
Speaker 1: you know, morning till night. So as much as I
Speaker 1: could make that bow to myself, I couldn't uphold it.
Speaker 1: If you recalled Eddie Robinson's going through the at Gramming State,
Speaker 1: Eddie Robinson's going through the hallway clinging a cow bell
Speaker 1: for you to get up for breakfast. So now I
Speaker 1: was not my life wasn't my own, Okay, So I
Speaker 1: would love to say that, But I do want to
Speaker 1: say I have a brother in law who served. Also
Speaker 1: his son, my nephew was in the Air Force for years.
Speaker 1: So yeah, definitely happy happy Veteran's Day to these guys
Speaker 1: and anyone else with families that served in the military
Speaker 1: and are still serving. I want to thank you so
Speaker 1: much for your absolutely now absolutely thank you so much. Yes, indeed,
Speaker 1: we definitely have a massive amount of respect for those
Speaker 1: who made the ultimate sacrifice and those who continue to
Speaker 1: sign up for the military and go out there and
Speaker 1: represent the United States of American, protect our freedoms and
Speaker 1: allow us to be able to do this sholt right
Speaker 1: here that we do. So it's as a guy who's
Speaker 1: born on a military base. My parents still live in Fayeville,
Speaker 1: North Carolina, which is where Fort Bragge is. Fort Bragge
Speaker 1: is in our backyard. So I am one of those
Speaker 1: that has a special affinity for our soldiers. All right.
Speaker 1: So to Jesse, this was something that I hit you
Speaker 1: and Everson up on earlier today. And Jack Taylor wrote
Speaker 1: a column in the Dallas Morning News. Jacque longtime columnist
Speaker 1: for let's say, a long time beat writer, and Jack
Speaker 1: also works with me on NBC five, and he wrote
Speaker 1: a column today and he said that the Cowboys are
Speaker 1: in disarray and it's up to Steven Jones and Jerry
Speaker 1: Jones to recognize what's going on. And I bring up
Speaker 1: a couple of points. It was made here. He says,
Speaker 1: one year ago today, Dallas lost in Minnesota twenty and
Speaker 1: twenty four. Since then, Dallas is five and eleven after
Speaker 1: started twenty nineteen three. You know the Cowboys have lost
Speaker 1: fifteen of twenty two games. So start with you, Jesse,
Speaker 1: and then going over to you, Everson Walls or the
Speaker 1: Cowboys in disarray in your opinion, Yes, and they've been
Speaker 1: that way for about twenty five years, do we And no?
Speaker 1: They no, seriously that they have been this, this Cowboys
Speaker 1: team and nobody, and we spoke briefluently yesterday. Nobody sells
Speaker 1: hope better than the Jones family. They can sell you hope.
Speaker 1: They can sell water to a well, they can listen,
Speaker 1: they can sell underwears to strippers. They can get it done.
Speaker 1: And so they they should do like masterclasses and selling
Speaker 1: hope to people because year in a year out they
Speaker 1: find small little things to get these fans and people
Speaker 1: excited about the Cowboys season. And yet none of it
Speaker 1: has produced anything long standing or that you know, no
Speaker 1: deep playoff runs and no NFC East Championship games, no
Speaker 1: Super Bowl appearances. And yet still that is still most
Speaker 1: recognizable franchise and their most expensive franchise in all of sports.
Speaker 1: But when you look at where we are today, and
Speaker 1: we say it every single year, while on paper, this
Speaker 1: roster looks to be tremendous. On paper, this roster can
Speaker 1: go a long way. On paper, we can really do
Speaker 1: something in the NFC East and in the NFL as
Speaker 1: a whole. But year in and year out it goes
Speaker 1: from but on paper too, we come up short again.
Speaker 1: And this I think people are starting and maybe it's
Speaker 1: just a culture thing because I think the whole entire
Speaker 1: world is just kind of so much stuff that's been happening,
Speaker 1: and just over time, people are kind of getting tired
Speaker 1: of hearing that same old sell us hope, sell us
Speaker 1: a dream, tell us it's going to be okay, the roses,
Speaker 1: the flowers in the meadows and all that kind of stuff. No, no,
Speaker 1: we want to see production now, not now. We want
Speaker 1: to see things really come into play and it be
Speaker 1: something that we can truly chair about, deep into the
Speaker 1: playoffs and possibly a Super Bowl. Ever. Yeah, he's right,
Speaker 1: that's what we talked about yesterday. Jesse's correct. And here's
Speaker 1: the dilemma that you have. You're looking at there's some
Speaker 1: two different lenses. I mean, we as as as the public,
Speaker 1: as fans and former players. Jesse, we know what it's
Speaker 1: all about. We understand that things can look great on paper,
Speaker 1: and if you don't have the coaching staff for the
Speaker 1: game plan to put it together, I don't care what
Speaker 1: kind of players you have, you're gonna fail. We canna
Speaker 1: look at the La Clippers and take a look at
Speaker 1: that ball club, and it's in pretty much dictating what
Speaker 1: a talented team can look like with no direction. Either
Speaker 1: you have to have it from leadership on the field,
Speaker 1: or you have to have it from the locker room itself,
Speaker 1: meaning the coaches or upper management, from from you know,
Speaker 1: the owners and the staff that creates a culture. And
Speaker 1: the dilemma that you have is you're looking at an
Speaker 1: owner who is the most successful sports franchise owner in history.
Speaker 1: So when he explains what's going on to the public,
Speaker 1: he can't help but be rosy. Right. It's always rosy
Speaker 1: for him, regardless of how many games they lose, regardless
Speaker 1: of the pandemic. Yes, I know he lost a lot
Speaker 1: of money with the Star and all of the ancillary
Speaker 1: income that goes with having the Star, all the real
Speaker 1: estate deals. That's a whole nother story. I took business
Speaker 1: in school, so I know exactly how much money he's
Speaker 1: losing in that regard. But when it comes to the
Speaker 1: pride of the Dallas Cowboys, he has nothing to hang
Speaker 1: his head about, and he never will. He can be
Speaker 1: upset that the players all at once. But when it's
Speaker 1: all said and done, it's hard. If I'm Jerry Jones,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna be upset about the players, and I'm gonna
Speaker 1: say I still have, as Jesse said, the most expensive,
Speaker 1: most popular, highest rated sports franchise in the world. So
Speaker 1: when you start looking at who's gonna be disappointed and
Speaker 1: what where is my priority as an owner? Yes, he
Speaker 1: wants to win, you you don't even don't even try
Speaker 1: to doubt the fact that he wants to win. But
Speaker 1: how can you go about running a team that you
Speaker 1: think is going to be successful just the way you
Speaker 1: ran the business that is uber successful. There's a difference
Speaker 1: between running a football team and running a business. When
Speaker 1: you run a football team, you got so many egos involved,
Speaker 1: You've got just so many personalities that you have to
Speaker 1: deal with up and down the line. It's different from business.
Speaker 1: You've got players. Go ahead, Jesse, I'd like to do
Speaker 1: step here on that. I just I just I want
Speaker 1: to challenge one point of yours. And the point I
Speaker 1: want to challenge of yours is do we really know
Speaker 1: if Jerry wants to win? And I say that only
Speaker 1: because this year, or just do after twenty five years
Speaker 1: that you were talking about, I'm going to talk about
Speaker 1: we can use the last twenty five years, okay. And
Speaker 1: the only reason I challenge you on that is because
Speaker 1: when you see a pattern as a business person that
Speaker 1: is it conducive to you having success, what do you do?
Speaker 1: You change it and you put it in a situation
Speaker 1: where you're now being successful. What are the most common
Speaker 1: things that has been in the last twenty five years
Speaker 1: of this team not having success? Players are involved, coaches, yes,
Speaker 1: are involved, but him sitting in that general manager seat.
Speaker 1: Some will say that is a large part of the
Speaker 1: reason why this team isn't being constructed and put together
Speaker 1: the proper way to go out there and to win
Speaker 1: games on football. And so if you were caring about
Speaker 1: winning and that was the ultimate care of yours, is
Speaker 1: it not enough for you to remove yourself from a
Speaker 1: situation at least try it? At least try it to
Speaker 1: remove yourself from a situation, allow someone else to come
Speaker 1: in and to sit in that role and have that
Speaker 1: role and see if that then can produce success for
Speaker 1: your business. That is the one thing that I would
Speaker 1: challenge you on that that he has tried that, and
Speaker 1: I think this year is kind of indicative or maybe
Speaker 1: even in the past few years where he's kind of
Speaker 1: Steven step up. I think that's his idea of you know,
Speaker 1: handing the baton off so to speak to someone else.
Speaker 1: Of course, he still wants to be the figurehead uh
Speaker 1: when he when he became GM, He'll tell you at
Speaker 1: every single turn, yes, Will McClay has to say so, Yes,
Speaker 1: Stephen Jones has to say so oh. But oh but
Speaker 1: at the end of the day, it all runs through me.
Speaker 1: I'm the last signature on everything that goes in and
Speaker 1: out this door. I'm the last Jesse that's that. That
Speaker 1: is probably uh maybe uh misguided leadership on his part,
Speaker 1: But when it comes to intent, his intent is to win,
Speaker 1: his his his his idea of himself. I'm sure as
Speaker 1: GM is I am Jerry Jones. I built my business,
Speaker 1: I built this team. Uh. Even when I let Jimmy
Speaker 1: Johnson go, I still want a Super Bowl. I have
Speaker 1: been able to run this team. Even while we're losing,
Speaker 1: we're still uh winning so to speak. Even while we're
Speaker 1: losing as a team, we're winning as a franchise. His
Speaker 1: being a GM has nothing to do with UM wanting
Speaker 1: to win as much as competence. You understand, he wants
Speaker 1: to win, he just doesn't know how to do it
Speaker 1: necessarily as GM. It's something that over these years or
Speaker 1: decades or how long he's been GM, he hadn't been
Speaker 1: able to figure it out. That's his uh that's what's
Speaker 1: sticking in his call right now. So he has no
Speaker 1: choice but to kind of, you know, let the reins
Speaker 1: go and give it to Stephen. But once again, once
Speaker 1: that ego steps in, Jesse, and and and uh knew it.
Speaker 1: Once that ego steps in, he's got to realize that
Speaker 1: that's gonna be that. That is the main problem with
Speaker 1: the Dallas Cowboys. His go running the team or a
Speaker 1: competent GM running the team. He wants to win, he
Speaker 1: just doesn't know how to do it consistently as a GM.
Speaker 1: I agree, all right, let's let's take a break here.
Speaker 1: When we come back, Jesse, based on what you said,
Speaker 1: I'm going to tell you what Jerry Jones has told
Speaker 1: me in the past, because I've asked some of these
Speaker 1: similar questions to him back when I used to do
Speaker 1: the Jerry Jones Show. So I'll give you that. On
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Speaker 1: I'm Nui Scruggs. Former Dallas Cowboys players Jesse Holly and
Speaker 1: Everson Walls join me. That Jesse, you spoke about that
Speaker 1: Jerry doesn't want to win, and I will tell you unequivocally,
Speaker 1: Jerry Jones wants to win. Okay. I got to start
Speaker 1: covering this team back when they had won their first
Speaker 1: Super Bowl. So as after their first Super Bowl win,
Speaker 1: I got to start covering this team. Jerry wants to win.
Speaker 1: Jerry Jones and I talked about it yesterday. Is very
Speaker 1: much like George Steinbrenner. George Steinbrenner never changed the way
Speaker 1: he went about running the New York Yankees when they
Speaker 1: won the World Series is seventy seven and seventy eight,
Speaker 1: and then after that they didn't win anything until the nineties,
Speaker 1: and when the Yankees got good again. It was actually
Speaker 1: when Gene Michael took over the franchise because George Steinbrenner
Speaker 1: had got suspended by Major League Baseball. But George was
Speaker 1: always the guy who was out there writing the largest
Speaker 1: checks and going about things in free agency. Once Jimmy
Speaker 1: Johnson left, so many people like Randy Galloway, who who
Speaker 1: ever seen you know very well a longtime columnist M.
Speaker 1: Brote used to have a radio show together. Yes, Randy
Speaker 1: was one of the main people saying Jerry, Jimmy built this,
Speaker 1: This was all Jimmy and that bug Jerry and bugs
Speaker 1: into this day that that it was all. And He's like, no,
Speaker 1: I was there with Jimmy. I hired Jimmy. Um, he
Speaker 1: wants his credit. Okay, there's no time. He wants his
Speaker 1: credit and hollidays. And when I was a long time,
Speaker 1: when I was doing the radio show, he would tell
Speaker 1: you can't question my bil might want to win. He's like,
Speaker 1: look at them, look at the kind of contracts I've
Speaker 1: signed here, look at what I've done, look at what
Speaker 1: I put into my franchise. I mean, Jerry Jones is
Speaker 1: in the Hall of Fame because he went out there
Speaker 1: taught other NFL owners how to make money. But Jerry's
Speaker 1: always been the guy who's been willing to pay. Agents
Speaker 1: will tell you how much they loved Jerry Jones because
Speaker 1: he's always willing to pay. So he wants to win.
Speaker 1: The issue Jesse with Jerry is truly this his ego
Speaker 1: of wanting to win and wanting to make sure he
Speaker 1: gets all the credit. His mentor when he got in
Speaker 1: the National Football League is Al Davis. Until Al Davis died.
Speaker 1: Al Davis ran the Raiders his own way. Other people tried,
Speaker 1: Ali should do this, you do that? Know Al did
Speaker 1: it his way and Jerry's gonna do it his way now.
Speaker 1: Along the way, he has made some concessions. Johnny Manzel
Speaker 1: is one of the biggest concessions things that I've ever
Speaker 1: seen come out of Jerry Jones, because I was sure
Speaker 1: they were gonna draft that kid out of Texas A.
Speaker 1: Jerry absolutely loved Johnny Manzel. And I remember when they
Speaker 1: had the Cotton Bowl game between Texas A and m
Speaker 1: and Oklahoma at Jerry World Man they were selling they
Speaker 1: were selling upper level seats for five hundred bucks. That's
Speaker 1: how much people wanted to go see Johnny football. And
Speaker 1: there it is right there for him, the ability to
Speaker 1: take Johnny football. And it's Steven Jones and Will McClay
Speaker 1: who were right there saying, no, that's not the guy
Speaker 1: we need to take. Zach Martin and so they take
Speaker 1: Zach Martin and even as we get to training care
Speaker 1: at Oxnard, California, Jerry's still moaning and grown and about
Speaker 1: how they didn't take the risk it should have taken.
Speaker 1: Johnny Johnny football, I mean, but that's him. So he's
Speaker 1: changed a little bit. But Jesse, he does want to win.
Speaker 1: Will his ego allow him to step back? He'll tell
Speaker 1: you no, he says. If I hire general manager, they
Speaker 1: still got to come through me. He says, I own.
Speaker 1: He told me going town he owned was like seventy businesses.
Speaker 1: He says, I make decisions on every single wat them.
Speaker 1: So this is just how he operates, Jesse. But he
Speaker 1: does want to win, but he wants to win his way. Yeah,
Speaker 1: he wants to win his way at his costs. And
Speaker 1: I think sometimes that can be a detriment to the team.
Speaker 1: I think questioning do he does he want to win?
Speaker 1: And again, when you have one hundred foot yacht and
Speaker 1: you have planes and helicopter and twenty four carrot gold
Speaker 1: silverware and you're already Hall of Fame Jesse, so you
Speaker 1: know you're in the home. I mean, you're winning, You're
Speaker 1: already winning. So I get it, you know, I get,
Speaker 1: you know, from a from a standpoint where I'm looking from,
Speaker 1: I just I just think about let's say, you know,
Speaker 1: if there's anything, because I think this is his baby, right,
Speaker 1: the Cowboys is his baby. He has a two billion
Speaker 1: dollar energy company, he has billion dollar real estate, and
Speaker 1: he has oil and gag. I mean, he has tightened
Speaker 1: type stuff that he owns and the cash flow is
Speaker 1: always coming. But this, this is his baby. This is
Speaker 1: his pride and joy. Of all of his jewels, this
Speaker 1: is the one that sits at the top. This is
Speaker 1: the one that takes his hardness. It's like, it's like
Speaker 1: your baby girl. You can have all these kids, but
Speaker 1: you got that baby girl that's the apple of your
Speaker 1: eye and you want everything in the world to work
Speaker 1: and go in her favor. But sometimes, as you know,
Speaker 1: you you can cripple her as a as a dad
Speaker 1: because you spoiler and you and you coddle her and
Speaker 1: you you kind of wrap this this thing around her
Speaker 1: and exposure to the world, and then when you're gone
Speaker 1: and she's like, oh my god. But that's the thing
Speaker 1: with Jerry. This is his baby and he was so
Speaker 1: close to it. I think it's something I wish that
Speaker 1: he would see it to the point where, you know what,
Speaker 1: let me just be an owner, because he still want
Speaker 1: to get the credit like you're still not gonna be
Speaker 1: He's not gonna be about Kraft. He will never be
Speaker 1: Bob Kraft. Bob Kraft wanted to be like Jerry Jones
Speaker 1: when he first got involved in New England Patriots, who
Speaker 1: was dealing with parcels. He got smacked around and figured out,
Speaker 1: I don't want to deal I don't want to deal
Speaker 1: with the media. I don't want to be that guy.
Speaker 1: And he let Belichick run it. But that's not ever
Speaker 1: gonna be Jerry Jones. Okay. And see that's the difference, Nui.
Speaker 1: You start talking about he's no Bob Kraft, then you're
Speaker 1: talking about he's buddies with Steinbrenner. That's his mentor, Steinbrenner.
Speaker 1: As much as he and Billy Martin did not get along,
Speaker 1: they cursed each other out almost every day in up
Speaker 1: like in private, didn't really matter. But when it was
Speaker 1: all said and done for a long time, Billy Martin
Speaker 1: was sitting right there in that dugout, winning championships, winning
Speaker 1: the World Series. He won the difference three times. He
Speaker 1: gets into it with Jimmy. He lets his ego take over,
Speaker 1: and you know I'm being uh, I'm wrapping it up
Speaker 1: in a in a messy little little not here but
Speaker 1: over not accepting a drink, you know what I mean?
Speaker 1: That was? You know, that's like a trigger. These kind
Speaker 1: of things you do not let interrupt a dynasty. Billy
Speaker 1: Martin was left alone because Steinbrenner realized that Billy Martin
Speaker 1: was helping him create a dynasty Bob Craft. He fired
Speaker 1: Billy Martin, but Billy Martin was hired to fight. He
Speaker 1: finally fired Billy Martin after how long it took him
Speaker 1: a while? It took him a while to fire Billy Martin. Yeah,
Speaker 1: many world series before he finally did that. If I'm
Speaker 1: not mistaken, No, Billy only times too fast. You know
Speaker 1: how many did Billy Martin win? You might know that
Speaker 1: new and I can't hardly hear you. He was only
Speaker 1: one one for Joe Stember, one, only one one nineteen
Speaker 1: Billy Martin, only one one World series for for George Steinbrenner.
Speaker 1: For George Steinbrenner. I stand corrected. I stand corrected, because
Speaker 1: they argued all the time, and even though he finally
Speaker 1: fired them, they argued for a long time, they were
Speaker 1: they never got a law from the minute he hired him.
Speaker 1: I'm mistaken in the Womber World Series, but I know
Speaker 1: that he kept him around for a minute. And what
Speaker 1: it did was it allowed him to run the locker room.
Speaker 1: It allowed him to run the dugout. So you have
Speaker 1: to eventually go ahead. So one reason why Billy Bartin
Speaker 1: got fired by George Steinburner despite them winning the Pennant
Speaker 1: in seventy six and seventy seven and they ended up
Speaker 1: finally winning the World Series seventy seven, he couldn't get
Speaker 1: over Reggie Jackson. He absolutely hated Reggie Jackson. And so
Speaker 1: Startifinnter chose Reggie over Billy Martin. Dude, when I tell you,
Speaker 1: George Stunbinner and Jerry are the same, dude, That's why
Speaker 1: they're friends and the same guys. And he brought Billy
Speaker 1: back twice and didn't win anything with Billy. Let me
Speaker 1: come at from this angle. Let me come back from
Speaker 1: this angle. You okay, you fire your guy, but then
Speaker 1: when you start talenting players that you think are gonna
Speaker 1: be players, and you think you can analyze talent build
Speaker 1: than anyone else on the Cowboys squad. You know, that's
Speaker 1: how you end up almost signing Johnny Manziel. You know
Speaker 1: you want the glitz and glamour. Bob Kraft all he
Speaker 1: wanted was Tom Brady and Bill Belicheck. And so if
Speaker 1: you want to be like someone, let me graduate from
Speaker 1: Billy Martin and Steinbrenner to Bob Kraft and Bill Belichick.
Speaker 1: To me, that's what you do. If you get a
Speaker 1: coach like that. Well, I'm not saying we have that
Speaker 1: coach unless you go back to Jimmy Johnson. You let
Speaker 1: him run it. You let him run it, You let
Speaker 1: him run it the way he sees fit. You know, man,
Speaker 1: Jimmy probably still would have been coach around here. He
Speaker 1: still looked at the TV. But he guy's hair combed
Speaker 1: all nice. He wears the best clothes you ever seen.
Speaker 1: He's the best dress guy on TV. And this is
Speaker 1: coming from a guy who's not even a Jimmy Johnson fan.
Speaker 1: But you guy, give him some love. This guy probably
Speaker 1: still would have been around here. He still would have
Speaker 1: been scaring the hell out of everybody if he could
Speaker 1: and make but they would have gotten wins and they
Speaker 1: would have gotten results. Look, Jimmy never stayed anywhere longer
Speaker 1: than four years. That's just been how Jimmy was from Oaklhoma.
Speaker 1: I bet Jimmy would have stayed here, But I'll bet
Speaker 1: you Jimmy would have stayed here. Jimmy didn't want to
Speaker 1: go to Miami. He only went there because he was
Speaker 1: on his way to retirement. But this is also and
Speaker 1: I look at this between Jerry and Jimmy, having been
Speaker 1: there and been around for that to when I covered
Speaker 1: Shaquille O'Neal and Kobe Bryant. Sometimes this stuff happens in
Speaker 1: sports that you have. You've got people who are winning,
Speaker 1: and you say, how come you can't get along? And
Speaker 1: how come you can't make it work? Um, you know,
Speaker 1: Tim Duncan and Gregg Popovitch made it work. Tom Brady
Speaker 1: and Bill Belichick made it work. Shack and Kobe could
Speaker 1: only make it go so far. And that was the
Speaker 1: same thing with Jimmy and Jerry. They can only take
Speaker 1: it so far because guys had their egos here. And
Speaker 1: I don't think Jimmy could have lasted much longer with Jerry,
Speaker 1: just as Shaquille and Kobe could not have run any
Speaker 1: longer because Kobe told Jerry bust. I will not play
Speaker 1: with that fat mother blanker anymore. And that was one
Speaker 1: reason why they why they got traded. Okay, I was
Speaker 1: there for it. I don't think comparing people to Kobe though,
Speaker 1: this kind of tough. Comparing people to Kobe. After you
Speaker 1: got rid of Shag, that's that was like better than Jodansque.
Speaker 1: Well well into the rule now until they got Pole Gasol.
Speaker 1: All right, Kobe was sitting up here as a seven
Speaker 1: seed and they were struggling, and Kobe asked to be
Speaker 1: traded and almost went to the Chicago Bulls. So this
Speaker 1: whole thing, Hey, Kobe did all this. What I shot,
Speaker 1: Kobe hadn't won a ring without a big man, because
Speaker 1: you needed it with the way he played, he needed
Speaker 1: somebody in there in the center. And God rest Kobe's soul.
Speaker 1: He didn't need much. He did not much, but you
Speaker 1: still needed that piece. He needed that piece. It was essential.
Speaker 1: And once somehow Jerry West gifted Power Gasol from Memphis
Speaker 1: to them, then then Phil Jackson and company got to
Speaker 1: go back to work in it and winning championships again.
Speaker 1: But Eagles are a part of this. It's a part
Speaker 1: of sports, it's a part of business. It's a part
Speaker 1: of that Hollywood scene that I was working out there.
Speaker 1: This is it and we've seen how good tandems can
Speaker 1: break apart. Look at the Beatles. I'm sitting around right
Speaker 1: now reading the John Lennond biography, and how do you
Speaker 1: break up something as good as the Beatles? It gets
Speaker 1: broken up. This is life, you know, This is life.
Speaker 1: And Jerry's in this, in this sitting in the in
Speaker 1: the seat of hey it. So I get to do
Speaker 1: what I want because owners don't get fired. But at
Speaker 1: the same time, I look at so you have you
Speaker 1: have to look at one thing. Uh knew it. They
Speaker 1: continue to win. Steinbrenner continued to win, Okay, the Beatles
Speaker 1: as much as they weren't the Beatles anymore. Those guys
Speaker 1: went solo. They continued to program, They continue to sell records.
Speaker 1: They continue to have gold and platinum records. Cowboys aren't
Speaker 1: doing that. We haven't done that. We talked about Steinbrenner
Speaker 1: and once again I was mistaken, and thank you for
Speaker 1: that correction. But they were going to the Pennant racist
Speaker 1: they were winning Pennant races. At least they were winning
Speaker 1: Pennant races. Jesse talked about going deep into the playoffs.
Speaker 1: At least Billy Martin was going deep into the playoffs.
Speaker 1: So now and then they still continued after he got
Speaker 1: rid of Billy Martin. That's where the differences all stopped.
Speaker 1: Now have not been successful on the field since these
Speaker 1: moves have been made, Okay, now, ever said, I want
Speaker 1: to make sure you understand this too. Now, So after
Speaker 1: they fired Billy Martin, they won the World Championship in
Speaker 1: nineteen seventy eight. Then they went back to the World
Speaker 1: Series in nineteen eighty one, and then he's after Reggie.
Speaker 1: He decided to sign Dave Winfield. And from that time,
Speaker 1: from the eighties until nineteen ninety six, they didn't get
Speaker 1: back to the World Series. And the reason they got
Speaker 1: back to the World Series was because George when he
Speaker 1: was suspended from baseball, Gene Michael restocked the farm system.
Speaker 1: So that was where they developed Derek Jeter. Those these
Speaker 1: are the guys that Jesse knows, Derek Jeter, Bernie Willis.
Speaker 1: This makes my point. If you're using this particular team
Speaker 1: with this particular owner, I think it makes my point.
Speaker 1: It took something catastrophic as the owner slash GM to
Speaker 1: be suspended and could not control things for someone to
Speaker 1: come in to rebuild, who had a baseball mind, who
Speaker 1: had who was in touch of what was happening today
Speaker 1: with the players and the systems and the things that
Speaker 1: were working for them to come in, restock the farm system,
Speaker 1: maybe not play pay all these outrageous salaries, get that
Speaker 1: built back up, get a team who had chemistry, who
Speaker 1: played off one another, who things were evolving to get
Speaker 1: that that cohesiveness, and then you started seeing the winning again.
Speaker 1: So that that kind of comes back to my point
Speaker 1: is sometimes you have to take a step back. Now,
Speaker 1: whether it's voluntary or involuntary, sometimes that that that that
Speaker 1: might be good. But here's the thing, Jesse, that's not
Speaker 1: gonna happen. There's not gonna be Jerry's got the NFL commissioner.
Speaker 1: Jerry has more juice than the NFL commissioner. So that
Speaker 1: ain't happening. So this is what it is. It is
Speaker 1: what it is. Let's take another break here, that's we're
Speaker 1: having some fun. Ever since, I want you to decide
Speaker 1: a little debate that Jesse and I have been having
Speaker 1: here on Twitter. You're yes, when but I knew this
Speaker 1: was coming. I don't. Oh, you're not getting away. I
Speaker 1: can't wear you not? Can't we getting away? All right?
Speaker 1: We'll do this skill the bay here We'll have ever since,
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Speaker 1: com Slash at home all right. NUIs Scrugs here, longtime
Speaker 1: Cowboys reporter, joined by two former Dallas Cowboys, Everson Walls
Speaker 1: and Jesse Hog. Now Everson, Jesse and I have had
Speaker 1: this debate going on here for a while about ribs.
Speaker 1: I do my ribs on about Bridge ribs, so I
Speaker 1: would like to throw mine on my big green egg
Speaker 1: and I like to smoke my ribs. Jesse, being the
Speaker 1: the Tristate area guy, the Northerner, likes to do his
Speaker 1: ribs and a crock pot is that is that is
Speaker 1: that that's typical of guys that can't go outside too much.
Speaker 1: It's always cold up there exactly. But but Jesse lives
Speaker 1: here in Texas. Now, Jesse's been in Texas for a
Speaker 1: long time. You play with Carolina when he's at school.
Speaker 1: So yeah, right, you use the North Castle. You've been
Speaker 1: in two major barbecue spots. And I said, you played
Speaker 1: with Brady James and and I'll tell you what that
Speaker 1: brother can smoke. Okay, Brady James, Oh yes, yes, you
Speaker 1: ever want to eat called Brady? Say Brady, what are
Speaker 1: you making? Because dog team can throw it down? And
Speaker 1: I'm trying to get Jesse out these croc pot ribs.
Speaker 1: I'm trying to get Jesse on the frield. So here,
Speaker 1: So here's the thing you got. You got New and
Speaker 1: his Jerry Jones and what mindset? Right? He's stuck in
Speaker 1: his ways? New he is he has knwi is the
Speaker 1: Jerry Jones of barbecue. You certain things have to be
Speaker 1: done a certain ways. So he oversails. He oversails, Yeah,
Speaker 1: everything has to be done this way, and if it's
Speaker 1: not done this way, it's in no way. And my
Speaker 1: thing is is that I make just as good as
Speaker 1: tender as fall out the bone, as juicy other ribs
Speaker 1: in my eight hour crock pot. Then he does smoking
Speaker 1: his ribs in his in his big green egg and
Speaker 1: so I'm like they can stick there. They're they're both
Speaker 1: very good. I've had. I've had both, all right, I've had.
Speaker 1: I haven't made the one on the green Egg. And
Speaker 1: partly because my background doesn't lend to being on a
Speaker 1: grill or a green egg or anything like that. Outside.
Speaker 1: You know, we were oven croc pot indoor type of
Speaker 1: people growing up in the North And then when I
Speaker 1: went to college, come on at twenty something years old, well,
Speaker 1: nobody trying to barbecue nothing. I was tasting tailing then
Speaker 1: playing football and basketball. You know, if I was trying,
Speaker 1: if I was trying to cook something, it trusts me,
Speaker 1: it wasn't a rib it was. It might have been
Speaker 1: a die. It might have been a sigh too, but
Speaker 1: it wasn't. In college, So even my time in North Carolina,
Speaker 1: I wasn't focused on how to get on how to
Speaker 1: get on the grill. But you know, and I noticed
Speaker 1: this and when I've come to Texas, and in Texas
Speaker 1: it's always, you know, the guys are always saying, oh,
Speaker 1: you ain't never had ribs till you had ri You
Speaker 1: ain't never had this until you had my this, And
Speaker 1: that is like a Texas culture thing. Everybody has to
Speaker 1: have the best of the best. And I'm just saying
Speaker 1: I do a pretty damn good job with these ribs
Speaker 1: in the crock pot. And I'm willing to put my
Speaker 1: croc pot ribs up against Newise Green, Big Green egg Ribs,
Speaker 1: Green Eggs and Ham. Huh. Now that I think, Jesse,
Speaker 1: when you when you said yeah, am I like Jerry? Yes,
Speaker 1: make sure you also put in there Jerry Hall of Famer.
Speaker 1: So I got gold jacket from ribs and I got
Speaker 1: bo Okay. So when I come up in here, I'm
Speaker 1: coming up in here with credentials, Okay, coming up in
Speaker 1: here havn't done some stuff. I ain't coming in here
Speaker 1: like Dan Snyder, Okay, with nothing. I'm coming to here
Speaker 1: like Jerry loaded up. Okay, So just make sure we
Speaker 1: got that part of it right. Una, fly in the coptrow.
Speaker 1: You're gonna go the plane or you're gonna have the
Speaker 1: boat pull up to the arbor. How you coming in
Speaker 1: I'm gonna put on the yacht, coming serving on the yacht. Okay, okay, okay, okay, okay, okay. Hey,
Speaker 1: I don't know brothers. I know brothers that have driven
Speaker 1: from Louisiana with the grill on wheels, Okay, So I
Speaker 1: mean I'm talking big time stuff here. Uh, That's what
Speaker 1: I've been around, That's what I've grown up. You know
Speaker 1: when you talk about you know, I know, knew what
Speaker 1: you said. You're from from Carolina, but then you also
Speaker 1: got some California in your with the USC background, and
Speaker 1: USC really California just put full of brothers from the
Speaker 1: South that was trying to get away and they just
Speaker 1: ended up planting their flags there. So you're really just
Speaker 1: a Southern dude your whole time being here. When I
Speaker 1: think about people cooking in a croc pot, I think
Speaker 1: about my wife. I'm sorry, Jesse, That's what I think about. Man.
Speaker 1: That's the only person I know that puts ribs in
Speaker 1: a croc pod. That's just me. She's not other stuff
Speaker 1: to do. You know, she's a very energizing young lady.
Speaker 1: She puts that in the croc pod. She handles her business.
Speaker 1: She's a you know, millennial wife or whatever, millennial mother,
Speaker 1: whatever you want to call him, even though she's over
Speaker 1: sixty years old. So I have to disagree with your brother.
Speaker 1: But when I when I made you come and eat, dude,
Speaker 1: you coming. Whatever is in that crock pot, is it
Speaker 1: a satisfying meal that brings you to the table to eat.
Speaker 1: You say, satisfying. That is such a low bar. You
Speaker 1: understand when I'm talking ribs. If I cook my ribs
Speaker 1: on the grill and she's in here on the crock
Speaker 1: pot with her apron or by the way, do you
Speaker 1: well women's apron when you do the crock potle? Oh,
Speaker 1: so you're going, I'm just I'm just asking. I'm just
Speaker 1: as you know, when you're in the kitchen, you gott
Speaker 1: wearing apron. You know, That's all I'm saying. So I'm
Speaker 1: always outside on the grill, whether men are okay, And
Speaker 1: so you know I love fall off the bone ribs,
Speaker 1: but anybody knows a good rib You want to be
Speaker 1: attached to that bone just a little bit, and you
Speaker 1: can just bite that joke off. You know, if it's
Speaker 1: falling off the bone, you know you're stuffing yourself, you don't.
Speaker 1: You know, it's it's a little bit too messy. You
Speaker 1: wanted to be firm. You wanted to be firm. You
Speaker 1: wanted to be seasoned just right. You want to have
Speaker 1: a little chalcold taste to it. You want to have
Speaker 1: that fire to it. Crock pot, come on. Man, that's
Speaker 1: too that's too I see you, I see the two.
Speaker 1: That's too sanitized. I see the two old guys, and
Speaker 1: it's too sanitized. Man. You go if you invite me
Speaker 1: over to your house and you got ribs, I'm gonna
Speaker 1: touch them first and see what it looks like if
Speaker 1: they if I can tell crock pot from grill, and
Speaker 1: I'm telling you, I would not be there. I would
Speaker 1: if I sit down to crock pop ribs, I'm going
Speaker 1: somewhere else. Man, I'm sorry. You know what I would do.
Speaker 1: I would make this. I'm gonna make sure the door
Speaker 1: knob don't hit you with a did little and I
Speaker 1: would eat them by. I never set you guys checked
Speaker 1: up on it. No, man, you can't have crock pop
Speaker 1: ribs telling you when you can't crock Pope ribs. Man,
Speaker 1: you just can. I don't care. Even if it's knowing
Speaker 1: outside and Texas you can go to Northern California might
Speaker 1: be starting. We're gonna still be on that grill man,
Speaker 1: outside and then once once they done, you put them
Speaker 1: on a trade. You put them in the oven of broil.
Speaker 1: That's how you get your You know, you get your
Speaker 1: You can see that that's that's what you call counterfeit.
Speaker 1: That's what you called counterfeit. Broy did you say did
Speaker 1: you say broil? Yes? See what I'm saying, he's putting
Speaker 1: it in the other That's what happens when you mess
Speaker 1: up on the grill, you put your stuff in the oven.
Speaker 1: Later you give it that chart. Man, I'm telling you
Speaker 1: the charge. The grill gives it the chart. That's all
Speaker 1: you need. Who? Yeah, who am I talking to you?
Speaker 1: You're am I talking to you? MANE talking to him?
Speaker 1: Who you know? For you or something? Man, I don't
Speaker 1: know who I'm talking to you? Man? Who who we boy? Now?
Speaker 1: So my page just got me with that one. He said,
Speaker 1: put it in the put in the oven. I don't
Speaker 1: know what that Well, what just happened here? We just
Speaker 1: must have changed conversations. I don't know what you saw.
Speaker 1: So so my folks, my folks are from Burning and Alabama.
Speaker 1: So so my dad always grilled. And then when we
Speaker 1: and he was stationed the military, so we lived in
Speaker 1: North Carolina, we lived in Texas, and we lived in Georgia.
Speaker 1: So you know, I've just been used to the grill.
Speaker 1: And then once I joined a Megan side fire it
Speaker 1: became like a big thing too. It's like the frat
Speaker 1: got together. So you know, so you was around a
Speaker 1: bunch of guys dog teams, who are here smoking these
Speaker 1: these ribs and so, yeah, Jesse, no, the crock Potlin
Speaker 1: something I never until you said it, I had never
Speaker 1: heard of it. I never heard of it. I never
Speaker 1: heard anything like that, man. And you know, and the
Speaker 1: only time I lived up north, the only time I
Speaker 1: lived up north was in Cleveland. And I didn't even
Speaker 1: try and mess with nobody's barbecue in Cleveland. And I'm
Speaker 1: gonna be all so, i didn't eat any barbecue in Cleveland.
Speaker 1: I'd eat no Mexican food. I was like, no, no,
Speaker 1: you don't want barbecue from Cleveland. Hell no, right, you
Speaker 1: definitely don't want to barbecue from Cleveland, not even from
Speaker 1: the state of Ohio. Period. Yeah right, So, so no
Speaker 1: Mexican food and no barbecue in Cleveland. I just know,
Speaker 1: no Mexican righty, Ohio. They don't even have good I
Speaker 1: mean it was. I stayed up in Cleveland for two winners,
Speaker 1: and when the Browns left, so did I. But I'll
Speaker 1: tell you that I lost I lost weight living in
Speaker 1: my favorite the Bengals for one year. So oh, you
Speaker 1: know how it is. We all we all feel each
Speaker 1: other's pain. I like that now, Jesse. I will say this.
Speaker 1: I went to the Montgomery in and Cincinnati and had
Speaker 1: their ribs, and they've got an amazing barbecue sauce there
Speaker 1: that I absolutely used to go to. Krogram Boys called
Speaker 1: Montgomery In there barbecue saucer. The next time, I'll tell
Speaker 1: you this, I'll give you this tip. Next time you
Speaker 1: do your croc pop ribs, get you to Montgomery and
Speaker 1: barbecue sauce. You can get it from Kroger because it's
Speaker 1: out of Cincinnati and it is dang good. It's so
Speaker 1: good you will dip your French fries in this barbecue sauce.
Speaker 1: So there you go. It's a free tip for your right.
Speaker 1: Let let me let me clarify something here. I don't
Speaker 1: even need barbecue sauce on my ribs. Okay, let's just
Speaker 1: we don't even have barbecue sauce in the house. No,
Speaker 1: that's that's your that's how sucking and my stuff is. Man,
Speaker 1: you don't even like Q. I would have to take
Speaker 1: my own sauce, find something worthy of my ribs. I
Speaker 1: have to make my own suck all the many Texas
Speaker 1: everyone thinks they're the next best rib maker ever. Everyone
Speaker 1: thinks that here in Texas. Oh no, you ain't had rid.
Speaker 1: You have my rigime, have my sauce, sauce. I don't
Speaker 1: need no salt. What you need salt? So these rims,
Speaker 1: this is this is the culture of people who who
Speaker 1: have planted their roots in Texas. I've never seen anybody
Speaker 1: lining up a bunch of crock pots and see who
Speaker 1: had the best ribs. So come on, man, you old
Speaker 1: school guys. Man, you old school you, old school Listen.
Speaker 1: You don't have to reinvent the you don't have to
Speaker 1: reinvent the wheel. I'll just putting rims on it, that's all.
Speaker 1: I'm just putting rims on it. Man, I'm dying. I'm dying.
Speaker 1: Jesse broiling ribs and putting that's that's something that I
Speaker 1: don't even know what he's talking about. Now, that's like
Speaker 1: fun language to me. I just gonna buy some cho man,
Speaker 1: that's all you gotta do. I'm gonna let you serve
Speaker 1: them crack. I'm gonna let you make them crack pot
Speaker 1: ribs and serve them. Chris Bean, Chris Bean could be
Speaker 1: the tasty. They'll be ready by this time tomorrow, and
Speaker 1: I'll go a bunch accomplished, not having a ten outside
Speaker 1: that hot grill all day. Oh all right, that is
Speaker 1: that's our show for the day. We're gonna end it
Speaker 1: with laughter. Will end it on a hot Jesse. Um,
Speaker 1: so fun for you to come on this show for
Speaker 1: the last two days, Everson, same thing man, you guys here,
Speaker 1: Uh yeah, we always It was fun for us to
Speaker 1: have the kind of conversations that we always have with
Speaker 1: each other, and it was fun to bring it on
Speaker 1: their here Dallas Cowboys dot com. Now we might be
Speaker 1: fired on Monday because very here will tell you about it.
Speaker 1: You can't run the team correctly. He might fire us
Speaker 1: all on Monday to just and the last time we
Speaker 1: see you, we appreciate you. I separated. It won't be
Speaker 1: the last. Let's let's know, the video record will show
Speaker 1: that was YouTube, not me. That was YouTube. Okay, I
Speaker 1: separated myself for that. What I wants to say something
Speaker 1: all day he does like ratings. He does for Chris
Speaker 1: Beam and everybody who worked on the podcast today, for
Speaker 1: Everson Walls and Jesse Holle NEWI scrugs, take care everyone,
Speaker 1: Thank go Cowboys. This has been a production of Dallas
Speaker 1: Cowboys dot Com and the Dallas Cowboys Football Club.