WEBVTT - Broken Record Presents: Questlove Supreme with Rick Rubin 0:00:15.436 --> 0:00:20.836 Pushkin. Hey guys, I'm excited to share a little something 0:00:20.876 --> 0:00:23.396 different with you all. Rick Rubin doesn't sit for a 0:00:23.396 --> 0:00:25.876 lot of interviews outside a broken record, so when he 0:00:25.916 --> 0:00:28.276 got with Questlove to tape an episode of his podcast, 0:00:28.396 --> 0:00:31.756 Questlove Supreme, we thought we'd bring it to you here too. 0:00:32.276 --> 0:00:34.796 Of course, you know Questlove from his many ventures from 0:00:34.796 --> 0:00:37.836 the Roots to The Tonight Show and a thousand other things. 0:00:38.596 --> 0:00:40.556 But if you heard him on our season two opener, 0:00:41.116 --> 0:00:43.196 you know there are a few people who love talking 0:00:43.316 --> 0:00:47.396 music as much as Quest It makes his podcast a 0:00:47.556 --> 0:00:51.236 joy to listen to. So after checking out this episode 0:00:51.236 --> 0:00:53.596 with Rick Rubin, be sure to go and subscribe and 0:00:53.676 --> 0:00:59.956 check out other episodes of Questlove Supreme. Enjoy. Questlove Supreme 0:01:00.036 --> 0:01:07.756 is a production of iHeartRadio. Ladies and gentlemen, Welcome to 0:01:07.796 --> 0:01:12.036 another episode of Love Supreme. My name's Questlove. We're here 0:01:12.036 --> 0:01:21.196 today with Layah Sugar, Steve Unpaid, Bill and Von Tigelow. Hello. 0:01:21.636 --> 0:01:24.836 I will say that our guest today is world Renown. 0:01:25.596 --> 0:01:29.076 He's a world renown reducer. Those are his words, not 0:01:29.156 --> 0:01:34.476 my words. World Renown reducerum from establishing one of the 0:01:34.556 --> 0:01:38.716 greatest hip hop labels in history, def Champ to working 0:01:38.756 --> 0:01:42.596 with all the greats from right out Chili Pepper, Tom Petty, 0:01:42.796 --> 0:01:46.876 There's Slayer, there's the Cult, there's Kanye West, There's Dixie Chicks, 0:01:46.916 --> 0:01:51.356 There's Mick Jagger, There's Neil Diamond, there's uh the Roots. 0:01:51.916 --> 0:01:56.596 I'm putting it out there anyway. Please welcome the Guru 0:01:56.956 --> 0:01:59.396 of music to Quest Love Supreme, the one in Oman, 0:01:59.876 --> 0:02:04.996 Rick Rubin, Thank you for doing us our show today. Finally, 0:02:05.716 --> 0:02:08.476 where are you? Where are you currently right now? Rick? 0:02:08.716 --> 0:02:12.316 I am right now in Kawaii on lockdown. Is that's 0:02:12.316 --> 0:02:16.356 a place to be on lockdown? Do you consider is 0:02:16.396 --> 0:02:18.796 that home for you? Or is it just like Okay, 0:02:18.836 --> 0:02:20.556 if I have to be on lockdown, I'd rather be 0:02:21.236 --> 0:02:25.956 in this particular environment. We mainly live in Malibu and 0:02:26.556 --> 0:02:29.356 spend some time here, usually in the winter, and this 0:02:29.436 --> 0:02:32.516 year the winter extended because of the lockdown, so it 0:02:32.596 --> 0:02:36.396 seemed like a better place to be on lockdown. Ah, Okay. 0:02:36.676 --> 0:02:42.516 Are you able to operate under your sort of your 0:02:42.556 --> 0:02:46.756 creative guys at least in Kawaii or are all your 0:02:46.796 --> 0:02:49.596 toys in La Toys or in La But we have 0:02:49.756 --> 0:02:54.116 a setup here that's working working well. You have you 0:02:54.156 --> 0:02:56.996 have an extensive history so I was debating with myself 0:02:57.036 --> 0:02:59.756 whether or not to do the normal chronological thing or 0:02:59.796 --> 0:03:03.836 should we just go kama kazi because there's so many 0:03:03.876 --> 0:03:07.036 stories I want to learn about your production, but I 0:03:07.076 --> 0:03:09.876 do want to know about your introduction to me. First 0:03:09.916 --> 0:03:12.756 of all, where were you born? Long Beach, Long Island? 0:03:13.196 --> 0:03:16.156 Long Beach, Long Island? Is that where you're born on? 0:03:16.316 --> 0:03:18.876 Pay Bill? No, I was just born on Long Island. 0:03:19.036 --> 0:03:21.876 Shout out to Long Island. Okay, all right, Birds of 0:03:21.876 --> 0:03:24.876 a Feather, that's cool. What was your the very first 0:03:24.916 --> 0:03:29.436 record that you purchased? I remember buying. I don't remember 0:03:29.476 --> 0:03:31.676 what was the first one, but I remember the experience 0:03:31.756 --> 0:03:36.276 of buying seven inches. I can remember shopping for forty 0:03:36.276 --> 0:03:43.076 fives in Times Square store in Oceanside, and Snoopy Versus 0:03:43.076 --> 0:03:44.876 the Red Baron may have been one of them, but 0:03:44.916 --> 0:03:47.156 I don't I don't remember exactly what the record was. 0:03:47.756 --> 0:03:50.676 What was what was the moment that you realized that, okay, 0:03:53.356 --> 0:03:56.316 I'd like a space in the music world, or that's 0:03:56.316 --> 0:03:58.956 what I want to do. I don't know that I 0:03:59.036 --> 0:04:02.116 ever had that feeling. I mean, I knew that I 0:04:02.196 --> 0:04:05.156 loved it, and I knew that it would be a 0:04:05.316 --> 0:04:07.156 huge part of my life. But I never thought it 0:04:07.196 --> 0:04:11.276 would be my job. Really, Okay, I didn't think that 0:04:11.356 --> 0:04:13.956 was a I didn't think that was a realistic possibility. 0:04:14.436 --> 0:04:15.996 I was going to have a real job and that 0:04:15.996 --> 0:04:18.796 would support my music, have it. What were you planning 0:04:18.796 --> 0:04:22.116 on becoming? I was on track. My parents had me 0:04:22.156 --> 0:04:23.876 on a track to be a lawyer. That would have 0:04:23.916 --> 0:04:26.836 been there. There wish, their wish would have either been 0:04:26.916 --> 0:04:29.796 a doctor or a lawyer. And I was always afraid 0:04:29.796 --> 0:04:34.916 of blood. I don't know. And then I thought, oh, well, 0:04:35.076 --> 0:04:37.796 there are lawyers involved in the music industry, so maybe 0:04:37.836 --> 0:04:40.636 I could be involved in that way because i'd have 0:04:40.676 --> 0:04:42.916 to have a job. But my real love is music. 0:04:42.996 --> 0:04:45.796 But I didn't know anyone who did music as a job. 0:04:46.036 --> 0:04:48.116 I didn't think that was a real thing. What were 0:04:48.156 --> 0:04:52.196 your parents? My dad was a businessman, store owner, my 0:04:52.276 --> 0:04:55.316 mom was a housewife. Is Rick Rubin your birth name? 0:04:55.996 --> 0:04:58.356 Frederick J. Rubin is the name I was born with, 0:04:58.396 --> 0:04:59.836 But I was called Rick from the time I was 0:04:59.876 --> 0:05:03.396 a kid. No one, no one ever called me anything else. Yeah, 0:05:03.396 --> 0:05:07.516 you would have been a Ruben attorney at law. Yeah, 0:05:07.556 --> 0:05:10.916 that's why that's a the lawyers there. Okay, I get it. 0:05:11.596 --> 0:05:13.916 I know there's there's a story that I heard about 0:05:13.996 --> 0:05:17.596 once performing at CBGB's and it was less than desirable, 0:05:17.996 --> 0:05:24.396 and I believe the end result was your father coming 0:05:24.436 --> 0:05:26.956 down from Long Island, but he was dressed as a cop. 0:05:26.996 --> 0:05:29.596 Did I make up that story in my mind or something. 0:05:29.956 --> 0:05:32.516 I don't remember ever telling that story, but the story 0:05:32.596 --> 0:05:34.876 is around and it may be rooted in something that 0:05:34.916 --> 0:05:37.596 actually happened. I have a vague memory of it, but 0:05:37.636 --> 0:05:40.636 I don't remember. I can't. I can't remember telling the story, 0:05:40.756 --> 0:05:43.596 but I think it might have happened. I think. I 0:05:43.636 --> 0:05:45.556 think the story that I heard was that you were 0:05:45.596 --> 0:05:48.716 in a band called the Pricks. I believe, and either 0:05:49.636 --> 0:05:52.636 it's kind of like you know, a modern showed time 0:05:52.676 --> 0:05:56.676 at the Apollo story where the opening actor or another 0:05:56.716 --> 0:06:00.316 act brings all their fans down. They were heckling you guys. 0:06:00.716 --> 0:06:04.516 You guys only did like two songs, and then to 0:06:04.516 --> 0:06:07.076 give revenge on the other band, your dad came down 0:06:07.236 --> 0:06:09.756 dressed as a cop, trying to shut the show down 0:06:09.956 --> 0:06:13.076 or something like that. Nothing, nothing like that happened. That 0:06:13.196 --> 0:06:15.636 was Yeah, that's not a story. I didn't know where 0:06:16.436 --> 0:06:18.956 that was an urban legend or for real, that's that's 0:06:18.996 --> 0:06:24.436 an urban legend. But in the sort of theatrical punk 0:06:24.556 --> 0:06:29.276 rock pandemonium of making a show more exciting. It is 0:06:29.316 --> 0:06:32.396 possible that my dad dressed as a cop to stop 0:06:32.436 --> 0:06:36.196 the show, our show, not to affect anyone else, because 0:06:36.276 --> 0:06:38.836 it would have. It just created a something. I can 0:06:38.876 --> 0:06:42.516 remember the time we did a show where we worked 0:06:42.516 --> 0:06:45.796 it out for the sprinkler, the fire sprinklers to go 0:06:45.836 --> 0:06:49.316 off during the show and just create a general sense 0:06:49.356 --> 0:06:52.756 of pandemonium in the room. And what were you were you? Um, 0:06:52.916 --> 0:06:56.076 what instrument did you play in the band? Guitar? Are 0:06:56.116 --> 0:06:59.796 you guitarist? Okay, I did, I was not. I wouldn't 0:06:59.796 --> 0:07:01.636 say I was a guitarist, but I played the guitar. 0:07:02.236 --> 0:07:05.316 You played the guitar. Being being is that we rarely 0:07:05.316 --> 0:07:08.116 get guested on the show that we're really really of 0:07:08.236 --> 0:07:10.676 the age, and I mean like in their in their 0:07:10.716 --> 0:07:14.076 early twenties, at least in New York City, much as 0:07:14.236 --> 0:07:18.956 much as made about the legend of what night nightlife 0:07:18.956 --> 0:07:21.876 culture was in New York City. And because you had 0:07:21.916 --> 0:07:25.516 like one foot plan in CBGB's I don't know about 0:07:25.516 --> 0:07:29.236 your history or dancy teria or those hip hop clubs 0:07:29.276 --> 0:07:32.716 at the time, but He just briefly described what the 0:07:32.836 --> 0:07:36.316 environment was like in the first half of the eighties 0:07:36.316 --> 0:07:39.076 as far as club life is concerned, Like, do you 0:07:39.116 --> 0:07:41.676 see it with fond memories now? Was it the best 0:07:41.716 --> 0:07:43.396 time ever? Are you one of those people that are 0:07:43.436 --> 0:07:45.796 like ah Man New York in the early eighties, there's 0:07:45.876 --> 0:07:50.716 nothing like it ever, like these romanticized feelings about it. Yes, 0:07:50.956 --> 0:07:52.996 it was an incredible time and we would go out 0:07:53.036 --> 0:07:57.396 every night and there was very little hip hop at 0:07:57.396 --> 0:08:00.156 that time. You couldn't really see hip hop. You could 0:08:00.196 --> 0:08:02.476 only see hip hop one night a week. But we 0:08:02.596 --> 0:08:07.476 went out every night and you would see um. There 0:08:07.516 --> 0:08:13.316 was a thriving dance music scene that would have had 0:08:13.356 --> 0:08:17.956 like groups like Liquid Liquid and ESG and conk. Oh Wow, 0:08:18.396 --> 0:08:20.996 you got to see them in person, all everybody. I 0:08:21.036 --> 0:08:24.436 saw every What were they like? I'd incredible? Like ESG? 0:08:24.716 --> 0:08:27.276 What were they like? It was just all around the base. 0:08:27.596 --> 0:08:29.956 It was sort of like a if you think about 0:08:30.036 --> 0:08:31.836 it looking back, it would be you'd say it was 0:08:31.876 --> 0:08:35.756 a pretty boring show. But the group was incredible. But 0:08:35.796 --> 0:08:38.556 it wasn't like a show. Wasn't a show like a 0:08:39.676 --> 0:08:42.756 putting on a show. It was like people in a 0:08:42.796 --> 0:08:45.516 band standing on stage and playing their songs, so it 0:08:45.556 --> 0:08:49.476 wasn't theatrical in any way, esg As I recall I 0:08:49.556 --> 0:08:52.156 think I saw them play at Danceteria. If I remember correctly, 0:08:52.596 --> 0:08:55.956 wow wow. But you we would go like, if a 0:08:55.956 --> 0:08:58.396 band was playing at Irving Plaza, we'd go to Irving Plaza. 0:08:58.396 --> 0:09:01.236 If the band was playing at the Mud Club, we'd 0:09:01.236 --> 0:09:04.396 go to the Mud Club. Maxis, Kansas City. I caught 0:09:04.396 --> 0:09:07.716 the tail end of Maxis Kansas City. I saw James 0:09:07.716 --> 0:09:12.436 White and the Blacks play there. I saw Devo play there. 0:09:12.516 --> 0:09:16.836 I saw Wayne County maybe Jane County at that time. 0:09:17.036 --> 0:09:20.596 I saw so many great shows. I saw The Bad 0:09:20.596 --> 0:09:23.516 Brains play at CBGB's. I saw the Bad Brains play 0:09:23.516 --> 0:09:26.556 at Irving Plaza. I saw a Minor Threat play at 0:09:27.516 --> 0:09:30.476 Irving Plaza. I saw the Cramps, which was my very 0:09:30.516 --> 0:09:35.356 first technically punk rock show at Irving Plaza. And then 0:09:35.396 --> 0:09:37.756 there'd be a gig at the garden. I remember seeing 0:09:39.196 --> 0:09:42.156 David Bowie at Madison Square Garden in the same night 0:09:42.196 --> 0:09:45.156 seeing the Bad Brains after at CBGB's. That would be 0:09:45.236 --> 0:09:49.876 a typical it was. It was an incredible time to 0:09:50.236 --> 0:09:53.156 be a fan of music, and there was both this 0:09:54.036 --> 0:09:57.716 live performance scene of music, and then there was also 0:09:57.716 --> 0:10:01.716 this incredible dance music scene with places like Dance Interia. 0:10:01.796 --> 0:10:07.676 Then Area the garage was still going on, so really 0:10:07.756 --> 0:10:12.156 you could you could get very different experiences, even on 0:10:12.196 --> 0:10:15.076 the same night, going from club to club. And then 0:10:15.636 --> 0:10:18.556 when hip hop started bubbling, the only place you could 0:10:18.556 --> 0:10:22.156 really see it downtown was at a grille, which was 0:10:22.236 --> 0:10:28.556 a reggae club on Avenue A. I believe I remember correctly. 0:10:28.596 --> 0:10:32.756 I think it was either sadly first restaurant. I was 0:10:32.756 --> 0:10:34.796 about to say that it was down a flight of stairs. 0:10:34.956 --> 0:10:37.876 Is it still there, Yeah, it's still there, but it's 0:10:38.836 --> 0:10:42.916 open shadow of what it shadow of what it used 0:10:42.956 --> 0:10:45.356 to be. But that's the place that I used to 0:10:45.396 --> 0:10:50.636 go to see Jazzy J and Uh Africa Islam and 0:10:51.076 --> 0:10:55.876 Busy B and Treacherous Three and everybody played there. And 0:10:55.916 --> 0:10:58.916 it was one night a week Tuesday, KLB Production School 0:10:58.996 --> 0:11:02.276 Lady Blue, and then when it got big, After it 0:11:02.316 --> 0:11:05.356 got big, then they moved it to the Roxy and 0:11:05.436 --> 0:11:06.876 that was one night a week at the Rocks. I 0:11:06.916 --> 0:11:09.316 went to the Roxy the first night every it was 0:11:09.396 --> 0:11:11.516 hip hop and it was this giant roller rink with 0:11:11.636 --> 0:11:13.956 maybe I don't know, there were maybe fifty of us 0:11:13.996 --> 0:11:16.636 there for the first night, and then it ended up 0:11:17.036 --> 0:11:20.156 just watching it grow every week and get bigger and 0:11:20.196 --> 0:11:24.796 bigger and bigger until it became what it became. You know, 0:11:25.356 --> 0:11:30.436 So I know about your dorm being def Jam's headquarters, 0:11:30.476 --> 0:11:33.436 But what was your major at NYU when you were attending. 0:11:33.916 --> 0:11:37.116 I started as a philosophy major, and after two years 0:11:37.116 --> 0:11:39.876 I switched to film and television because, as I said, 0:11:39.916 --> 0:11:43.116 I was planning on going to law school. You don't 0:11:43.156 --> 0:11:47.516 need a particular undergrad the degree you have undergraduate degree 0:11:47.636 --> 0:11:50.756 doesn't matter to get into law school. And most of 0:11:50.756 --> 0:11:53.116 my friends that I liked hanging out with were in 0:11:53.196 --> 0:11:57.156 film school and that just seemed more fun than the 0:11:57.196 --> 0:11:59.596 liberal arts side that I was that I started on, 0:11:59.636 --> 0:12:02.196 so I just switched over. Since it didn't matter what 0:12:02.436 --> 0:12:08.036 year was def Jam as a punk label started first. Wait, 0:12:08.116 --> 0:12:13.116 year eighty three eighty four or something like that. What 0:12:13.236 --> 0:12:15.756 were the who were the artist on the label? At 0:12:15.756 --> 0:12:18.876 the time, there only records that I made of my 0:12:18.916 --> 0:12:22.676 own band. All there was was hoes Hos and there 0:12:22.756 --> 0:12:27.316 was a twelve inch and a seven inch, a twelve 0:12:27.356 --> 0:12:31.236 inch EP and a seven inch That's all there was. 0:12:31.356 --> 0:12:35.756 And then I made my first hip hop record, which 0:12:35.836 --> 0:12:38.596 was It's Yours which and I'll tell you the story 0:12:38.596 --> 0:12:41.716 of how that came about because it's interesting. If you 0:12:41.716 --> 0:12:44.756 want to again, if you want to hear it, Ye, yes, yes, 0:12:44.956 --> 0:12:49.396 we're rabbit Hole Central. We're waiting. My favorite group at 0:12:49.396 --> 0:12:51.756 the time were The Treacherous Three. And I didn't know 0:12:51.836 --> 0:12:54.076 anything at all about the record business. I didn't know 0:12:54.116 --> 0:12:56.636 that there were I didn't know what a producer did. 0:12:56.756 --> 0:12:59.436 I didn't know that there were record companies. I didn't 0:12:59.436 --> 0:13:03.116 know that people had contracts. I literally knew nothing other 0:13:03.156 --> 0:13:06.076 than I love music more than anything. I read everything 0:13:06.076 --> 0:13:09.036 I could read about music. I read even Billboard, which 0:13:09.236 --> 0:13:11.676 was a weird thing for a kid to read when 0:13:11.676 --> 0:13:14.076 I was even in sixth grade seventh grade. I would 0:13:14.076 --> 0:13:17.596 read Billboard just because there might be a little story 0:13:17.716 --> 0:13:21.356 about an artist I liked. And it never made like 0:13:21.636 --> 0:13:23.476 I was never really interested in what it said, but 0:13:23.556 --> 0:13:26.116 I just wanted to learn anything there was to learn 0:13:26.116 --> 0:13:28.676 about anyone that I liked in music, So if I 0:13:28.676 --> 0:13:31.556 saw their name in an article, I had to read it. 0:13:32.116 --> 0:13:35.356 I reached out to after the show at the Grille, 0:13:35.756 --> 0:13:41.276 I reached out to Kumod. Kumodi was my favorite MC, 0:13:42.276 --> 0:13:44.596 and I gave him my number and I said, let's 0:13:44.596 --> 0:13:48.076 get together and chat. Now, Kumodi was going to school 0:13:48.476 --> 0:13:50.716 on Long Island, so they were all like college age 0:13:50.716 --> 0:13:54.836 at this time. And then Kumod came to visit me 0:13:54.876 --> 0:13:59.636 at the dorm. That was my first attempt at being 0:13:59.676 --> 0:14:02.716 involved in this thing that I loved. And I said. 0:14:03.476 --> 0:14:06.796 They had been making records on Enjoy Records, which I loved, 0:14:07.796 --> 0:14:11.396 and then they may their first the first thing that 0:14:11.476 --> 0:14:13.476 came out, if I remember correctly, I'm not sure the 0:14:13.516 --> 0:14:16.716 timing of this, but I heard a treacherous three song 0:14:16.756 --> 0:14:18.756 that I thought wasn't as good as all the ones 0:14:18.796 --> 0:14:21.396 that I liked. Was it? Yes, we Can Can on 0:14:21.436 --> 0:14:25.196 Sugar Hill might have been. I didn't like that, Yeah, yeah, 0:14:25.196 --> 0:14:30.196 so I might have been. So as a fan, I said, 0:14:30.676 --> 0:14:32.436 let's get together. I just want to talk to you 0:14:32.436 --> 0:14:35.756 about this music. You know, I'm a fan. I want 0:14:35.756 --> 0:14:38.836 to talk to you. And then I said, and again 0:14:38.876 --> 0:14:43.596 I was I had great confidence in my taste just 0:14:43.796 --> 0:14:45.836 because I really, you know, I truly felt it with 0:14:45.916 --> 0:14:48.156 all of my heart. And this was at a time 0:14:48.196 --> 0:14:50.876 when not a lot of people were listening to this music. 0:14:50.916 --> 0:14:53.996 It was a tiny underground scene at the time. You 0:14:53.996 --> 0:14:57.076 have to keep in mind this is there were the 0:14:57.436 --> 0:15:01.716 first round of death Jam records. We might have pressed up, 0:15:02.156 --> 0:15:04.596 you know, three thousand copies. You know that might be 0:15:04.676 --> 0:15:08.236 the starting run of a record. So that's how big 0:15:08.276 --> 0:15:10.836 the world of hip hop was at that time. By 0:15:10.836 --> 0:15:15.836 this point, is this pre or post it's yours? Like, 0:15:16.596 --> 0:15:19.076 what was this about you that he's leading up? This 0:15:19.156 --> 0:15:21.716 is leading up to it. There's no I've done nothing. 0:15:22.356 --> 0:15:24.756 Oh so he just he just befriended you on trust, 0:15:24.836 --> 0:15:28.476 not knowing anything about your No, he didn't even befriend 0:15:28.476 --> 0:15:30.836 me on trust. He's just like somebody cares in a 0:15:30.916 --> 0:15:36.036 time when nobody cares. Understand, it was a tiny little 0:15:36.036 --> 0:15:40.276 world that nobody was interested in. I was interested. I 0:15:40.316 --> 0:15:43.916 could speak about it with passion because I had that passion. 0:15:44.836 --> 0:15:48.276 So there weren't that many heads at that moment in time. 0:15:48.956 --> 0:15:53.116 So I get together with Komodi and I say, Okay, 0:15:53.276 --> 0:15:56.596 the records you made on enjoy a great. Now there's 0:15:56.596 --> 0:15:58.556 this new thing. It's not as good as the rest. 0:15:59.076 --> 0:16:02.796 Let's figure out together. I'm your fan. I don't want 0:16:02.836 --> 0:16:05.116 it to go that way. I don't want it to 0:16:05.116 --> 0:16:07.396 get worse. Let's figure out how to make it get better, 0:16:08.116 --> 0:16:11.796 and let's figure out I swear it's true. Let's figure 0:16:11.796 --> 0:16:14.756 out how to do this. And he said, I would 0:16:14.796 --> 0:16:16.476 love to do this, but I can't do this. We're 0:16:16.516 --> 0:16:18.796 signed to sugar Hill. I didn't again, I had no idea. 0:16:18.836 --> 0:16:20.956 I didn't know anything. I didn't know what a producer was. 0:16:20.956 --> 0:16:23.036 I didn't know that there were contracts. But he said, 0:16:23.036 --> 0:16:25.756 we're signed to sugar Hill, but you should talk to 0:16:25.756 --> 0:16:29.876 Special K. He's in the group, and he writes he 0:16:29.996 --> 0:16:33.356 might have an idea. So he introduced me to Special K, 0:16:33.916 --> 0:16:36.316 got together a Special K, and Special K said, okay, 0:16:37.196 --> 0:16:40.276 I like the idea. And I was already programming beats, 0:16:40.636 --> 0:16:42.796 so I played him some beats on my eight o eight. 0:16:43.716 --> 0:16:48.396 Special K said, okay, I wrote, I just wrote this 0:16:48.476 --> 0:16:50.836 record called It's yours. I can't do it because I'm 0:16:50.836 --> 0:16:53.996 signed to sugar Hill. But Ti Lara can do it. 0:16:54.636 --> 0:16:58.836 He's we're related. And that's the way it really happened, 0:16:58.836 --> 0:17:02.076 by me wanting to work with Treacherous three, them saying 0:17:02.276 --> 0:17:05.436 me not knowing I me not knowing anything about the business, 0:17:05.756 --> 0:17:08.796 and then basically saying, this is the guy who can 0:17:08.836 --> 0:17:12.196 do this song. And Special K wrote the lyrics it was. 0:17:12.276 --> 0:17:18.076 It was essentially like a special K solo record lyrically 0:17:19.156 --> 0:17:23.156 what and even lyrically that was really ahead of his 0:17:23.276 --> 0:17:32.596 time even back then. It was incredible. Minute was the story? 0:17:33.356 --> 0:17:37.476 It's yours? Wait, Rick, are you even familiar about the 0:17:38.196 --> 0:17:46.436 Teela Rock situation right now? I've heard a little bit recently. Nah, 0:17:46.516 --> 0:17:50.676 what's going on? It's in Okay. I won't do anything. 0:17:50.796 --> 0:17:52.756 I won't do any justice to the story. I'll just 0:17:52.796 --> 0:17:57.596 say that if you google Tela Rock. GQ magazine. GQ magazine, 0:17:57.676 --> 0:18:03.116 damn near gave Tela Rock a seven page feature story, 0:18:03.836 --> 0:18:08.036 long story short. I meet this woman, this like uh, 0:18:08.076 --> 0:18:13.476 this high society, hoity toity, upscale woman from the West Side, 0:18:13.796 --> 0:18:17.196 and she comes to me and says, hey, I'm doing 0:18:17.356 --> 0:18:20.196 finger like the woman the woman in Wild Style, like 0:18:20.276 --> 0:18:23.116 totally a fish out of water, or a white woman 0:18:23.116 --> 0:18:26.036 comes to me and says, hey, I'm doing a biopic 0:18:26.476 --> 0:18:30.036 or rapper Tela Rock, And already I'm turned. I'm like, okay, 0:18:30.236 --> 0:18:34.236 he's trying to scam you, Like, okay, whatever, biopick. I'm like, 0:18:34.276 --> 0:18:36.676 what is it about Titla Rock that deserves a biopic? 0:18:37.196 --> 0:18:41.476 Three years later, there's a story in GQ magazine that 0:18:41.556 --> 0:18:45.516 I didn't know which Basically, he went into a coma 0:18:45.676 --> 0:18:49.356 and because he had no id or anything on him, 0:18:50.116 --> 0:18:53.076 think of like Michael Jackson's character on The Simpsons. He 0:18:53.116 --> 0:18:56.596 winds up in this old folks home in the Bronx. 0:18:56.716 --> 0:18:58.676 They don't know who he is, or he doesn't know 0:18:58.716 --> 0:19:01.516 who he is, knows nothing. I think it about in 0:19:01.716 --> 0:19:05.716 months or so, his family finally locates him, but he's 0:19:05.716 --> 0:19:08.236 comfortable with his life at this old folks home. And 0:19:08.356 --> 0:19:10.556 now they have to exp plaining to him who he was. 0:19:11.036 --> 0:19:14.916 You were once, you were the first rapper. That's a 0:19:15.276 --> 0:19:18.276 brutal attack. A mirror too that happen now. But the 0:19:18.316 --> 0:19:21.876 headline is the man who forgot he was a rap ledger, right, 0:19:21.876 --> 0:19:24.756 which is pretty great. Right. I don't know how he 0:19:24.796 --> 0:19:27.596 got into that coma, but I do know that he 0:19:27.676 --> 0:19:30.356 was in a coma and he didn't know who or 0:19:30.436 --> 0:19:34.276 what he was, and he slowly had to be taught 0:19:34.316 --> 0:19:37.636 everything about himself. But now he just has this new 0:19:37.716 --> 0:19:41.076 life in as the young guy, as the young stud 0:19:41.596 --> 0:19:44.916 and a nursing home. Wow. Yeah, and he likes his 0:19:44.996 --> 0:19:48.076 life there. But it's they say that other residents are 0:19:48.116 --> 0:19:51.356 mostly elderly Jewish and Yiddish speakers, so that must be. Yeah, 0:19:52.676 --> 0:19:54.516 like the word about like who's this black guy in 0:19:54.596 --> 0:19:57.156 are are missing? They're like, oh, he was once a 0:19:57.316 --> 0:20:00.476 rapper on Russell Simmons label, like that sort it's the 0:20:00.516 --> 0:20:04.036 craziest story you ever heard. But it's yeah, I was 0:20:04.076 --> 0:20:06.036 forward once I've seen it. Now now I wish I 0:20:06.036 --> 0:20:09.516 wouldn't dismissed that woman, like that movie has to be made. 0:20:09.836 --> 0:20:13.996 That's a movie, sounds great. Yeah, that's him now, Yeah, 0:20:14.036 --> 0:20:16.556 it's a crazy movie. And that's it looks exactly the same, 0:20:16.596 --> 0:20:18.596 by the way, it's exactly what he looked like. Then 0:20:19.516 --> 0:20:22.556 how old were you when you did that record? Twenty shit, 0:20:23.156 --> 0:20:26.516 maybe maybe nineteen, I don't know. Yeah, and that was 0:20:26.556 --> 0:20:28.956 just you on the on the eight away and then 0:20:28.996 --> 0:20:32.076 what did y'all track it on? If you remember we 0:20:32.116 --> 0:20:34.836 tracked it this There was a studio that advertised in 0:20:34.876 --> 0:20:39.596 the Village Voice called power Play in Long Island City, 0:20:39.756 --> 0:20:43.156 which was the cheapest studio you could go into, and 0:20:43.396 --> 0:20:45.796 we recorded it. I recorded my punk rock band there 0:20:45.836 --> 0:20:49.836 before and then we recorded that it's yours there and 0:20:50.076 --> 0:20:53.236 m recorded it, you know, in a couple of hours, 0:20:53.316 --> 0:20:57.436 pretty reading quick another piece the reason jazz J. The 0:20:57.476 --> 0:21:01.316 reasons see lar Rock and Jazz J was again as 0:21:01.356 --> 0:21:03.716 a fan of hip hop, as someone going to the 0:21:03.876 --> 0:21:07.356 to the club. The whole idea always of the records 0:21:07.356 --> 0:21:10.916 that I made were that the energy in the club 0:21:11.036 --> 0:21:13.556 was a very specific thing, and the records that were 0:21:13.596 --> 0:21:16.676 coming out didn't sound like what the club sounded like. 0:21:17.476 --> 0:21:20.716 And I'm a fan now. Had had the record sounded 0:21:20.716 --> 0:21:22.356 the same, I don't know that I would have ever 0:21:22.396 --> 0:21:25.156 made a hip hop record at all, because it was 0:21:25.236 --> 0:21:28.036 more just I want to hear this. I want to 0:21:28.076 --> 0:21:30.916 hear what I'm hearing at the club, but nobody's making 0:21:30.956 --> 0:21:34.916 that record. So I made it to be able to 0:21:34.916 --> 0:21:37.556 hear it. But that's all it was. It wasn't There 0:21:37.636 --> 0:21:41.956 was no h I had no expectation that anybody else 0:21:41.956 --> 0:21:43.996 would like it or that it would have any success. 0:21:44.236 --> 0:21:46.476 It was never about, you know, you could never assume 0:21:46.556 --> 0:21:49.076 that in this little world that it was that we 0:21:49.116 --> 0:21:52.956 were coming from. It's like anyone who was making music 0:21:52.996 --> 0:21:55.436 at that time clearly did it out of the love 0:21:55.436 --> 0:21:58.356 of it because it was no upside. Yeah, there was 0:21:58.356 --> 0:22:01.436 no industry that was build nothing. There was nothing one 0:22:01.556 --> 0:22:04.716 new and what was a fundamental difference between the club 0:22:04.796 --> 0:22:06.516 and the and the record. What were you trying to 0:22:06.556 --> 0:22:10.716 capture it? Was it just the I'll tell you no, okay, 0:22:10.956 --> 0:22:14.196 because even on the acapella version of that record, in 0:22:14.356 --> 0:22:19.236 my mind, there's a million people in the room, do 0:22:19.276 --> 0:22:22.236 it like because you're the kyage of the he like 0:22:22.316 --> 0:22:24.476 that that that sort of thing, like the people in 0:22:24.516 --> 0:22:27.236 the background. Yes, how many people were in the room 0:22:27.236 --> 0:22:30.956 when that those party noises were made? Four or five? 0:22:31.076 --> 0:22:36.436 Five or six of us? Two times? Maybe three? Was 0:22:36.516 --> 0:22:41.636 a Rock one of those people? Absolutely? Okay? Okay, oh 0:22:42.076 --> 0:22:47.116 at yeah, me Ad Rock, probably Special K, Jazzy Jay 0:22:48.076 --> 0:22:50.076 who everybody who was in this hid, maybe even the 0:22:50.116 --> 0:22:52.596 engineer of the session, like any people we had on 0:22:52.676 --> 0:22:57.796 hand to get the party vibe. So okay, So let 0:22:57.796 --> 0:23:02.476 me explain how I heard what I heard different about 0:23:02.516 --> 0:23:06.316 the club versus the records and I and a lot 0:23:06.356 --> 0:23:10.196 of this has to do with me not knowing anything. 0:23:11.756 --> 0:23:16.716 The way that rap records had been made up until 0:23:16.756 --> 0:23:19.676 that point. Those records were made by people who had 0:23:19.716 --> 0:23:24.796 made other records. So at the time, if you were 0:23:24.836 --> 0:23:30.196 going to make a club record, it would be like Heartbeat, 0:23:30.516 --> 0:23:34.116 it would be a band, it would be a band 0:23:34.236 --> 0:23:39.876 record with a woman singing R and B. That would 0:23:39.876 --> 0:23:43.636 be the club record. And then when the people who 0:23:43.716 --> 0:23:48.636 didn't understand hip hop but understood making club records saw 0:23:49.116 --> 0:23:53.516 this new thing, rap music, they thought, Okay, we'll do 0:23:54.276 --> 0:23:58.836 the band doing the R and B song, and we'll 0:23:58.876 --> 0:24:00.756 have the guy rap on it instead of having the 0:24:00.796 --> 0:24:04.676 girls sing on it. And that's what hip hop records 0:24:04.676 --> 0:24:07.756 sounded like. But that's not what the clubs sounded like. 0:24:08.196 --> 0:24:14.196 The club sounded like DJ culture, drum machines. Maybe not 0:24:14.396 --> 0:24:17.476 so many drum machines, but some at that point more 0:24:17.596 --> 0:24:20.156 DJ culture. It was really about the DJ cutting it up. 0:24:20.836 --> 0:24:22.596 So if you went to see it, if you went 0:24:22.636 --> 0:24:26.236 to see the Treachers three live, it wasn't a band 0:24:26.356 --> 0:24:29.836 playing their song like it was on even the Enjoy records. 0:24:30.196 --> 0:24:34.196 It was the DJ cutting up the records with the 0:24:34.356 --> 0:24:39.836 MC's and that's what That's how I understood hip hop, 0:24:39.996 --> 0:24:47.396 was this homemade music with rapping. So that's and that's 0:24:47.436 --> 0:24:49.676 why Jazzy why it was important for me, like I 0:24:49.716 --> 0:24:53.436 would never want to sign, I would never think of 0:24:53.476 --> 0:24:58.876 doing a tele rock record without having a DJ associated 0:24:58.916 --> 0:25:02.116 with it, because it's like what made it hip hop 0:25:02.436 --> 0:25:06.116 was the two of them, it was the band, you know, 0:25:06.396 --> 0:25:09.996 together they were the Beatles, right, but himself it was 0:25:10.036 --> 0:25:11.836 just to say it was another singer, you know, it 0:25:11.876 --> 0:25:15.476 was Frank Sinatra. It's it's different. So I saw it 0:25:15.556 --> 0:25:19.276 as a group and the music was an important part 0:25:19.356 --> 0:25:24.156 of for me. The DJ culture was as important as 0:25:24.196 --> 0:25:28.276 the MC. Always it was always both. So that's and 0:25:28.316 --> 0:25:30.956 then I and Jesse. J was my favorite DJ, and 0:25:30.996 --> 0:25:33.116 I asked him if you would be on the record 0:25:33.156 --> 0:25:35.356 and join the group with Special K. That's how That's 0:25:35.356 --> 0:25:40.196 how it happened. Wow, was it hard to because you know, 0:25:40.236 --> 0:25:43.956 the stories that I've heard from Russell's reaction to the 0:25:43.996 --> 0:25:46.196 record was that it was hard to believe that this 0:25:46.316 --> 0:25:51.876 white boy made such a definitive black album. So how 0:25:52.276 --> 0:25:55.676 how how hard was it to convince people that you're 0:25:55.756 --> 0:25:58.876 the guy that made it's yours? Like, was it a 0:25:58.956 --> 0:26:02.396 hard sell? Or the whole thing was so strange? Like 0:26:02.516 --> 0:26:05.756 it was the record was already a weird record, yes, 0:26:05.836 --> 0:26:08.716 you Russell always referred to it as more black than 0:26:08.756 --> 0:26:13.076 anything else. But to me, it was just more representative 0:26:13.076 --> 0:26:15.356 of the club, you know, it was more like it 0:26:15.396 --> 0:26:19.756 was like a documentary of what I experienced going to 0:26:19.836 --> 0:26:23.516 the club. All right, So since we're talking about your 0:26:23.516 --> 0:26:26.476 eight h eight period and I guess our listeners, it 0:26:26.516 --> 0:26:30.436 should be noted that, really, I mean, yes, I know 0:26:30.516 --> 0:26:33.476 that there's a tie between like you and Arthur Baker. 0:26:33.876 --> 0:26:37.476 That Telo Rock single was like sort of a cross 0:26:37.516 --> 0:26:43.996 between def Jam and Wasn't Start Whatever Party Time? Party 0:26:43.996 --> 0:26:47.916 Time wasn't that one of the author Baker's offspring labels 0:26:47.916 --> 0:26:49.996 as well? At the way, I could tell you how 0:26:50.036 --> 0:26:51.836 that happened as well, which was I was going to 0:26:51.916 --> 0:26:55.356 put it out independently myself, the way I put out 0:26:55.396 --> 0:26:58.276 my punk rock records with nine nine Records, which is 0:26:58.316 --> 0:27:05.036 a record store, really cool independent record store, Google Street, right, yeah, 0:27:05.116 --> 0:27:10.156 GESG And they put out Bush Tetras Yeah, and Liquid 0:27:10.196 --> 0:27:12.676 Liquid they put out the record that the message was 0:27:12.716 --> 0:27:16.036 based on. Actually yeah, I have those records. Yeah. So 0:27:16.516 --> 0:27:18.756 the guy who ran that record store was sort of 0:27:18.756 --> 0:27:21.916 my mentor in that he walked me through the process. 0:27:21.916 --> 0:27:24.716 He's like, Okay, here's a list of studios you could 0:27:24.756 --> 0:27:27.316 go to. Here's a place you could have the vinyl press, 0:27:27.436 --> 0:27:29.436 here's a place you can have the labels made. The 0:27:29.516 --> 0:27:32.316 labels were made in Brooklyn. The vinyl was pressed in 0:27:32.436 --> 0:27:37.196 I think Long Island City. The covers were printed in Canada, 0:27:37.276 --> 0:27:40.556 and he kind of walked me through, here's people who 0:27:40.596 --> 0:27:43.756 could do mastering for you, and he just walked me 0:27:43.756 --> 0:27:45.636 through how to do it because I didn't know anything, 0:27:45.676 --> 0:27:47.636 as I said, So I did that first for my 0:27:47.676 --> 0:27:49.836 punk rock records and I was about to do that 0:27:50.236 --> 0:27:53.556 with It's Yours when Jazzy called me because they were 0:27:53.596 --> 0:27:55.996 making some movie that Arthur Baker was involved in. I 0:27:56.036 --> 0:27:57.596 don't know what it was. I can't remember what it 0:27:57.676 --> 0:28:01.036 was beat Street and he said, Hey, just met this guy, 0:28:01.156 --> 0:28:04.396 Arthur Baker. He wants to hear our record. He's got 0:28:04.436 --> 0:28:06.796 a label, maybe he can help us. And then I 0:28:06.836 --> 0:28:09.076 went up and I met Arthur Baker at Shakedown Studio, 0:28:09.356 --> 0:28:10.796 which is where we ended up doing a lot of 0:28:10.796 --> 0:28:12.996 work in the future as well mixing. I think we 0:28:13.116 --> 0:28:16.956 mixed half of License to Ill there and MCA from 0:28:16.956 --> 0:28:20.516 the BC Boys work there. He worked as a as 0:28:20.556 --> 0:28:25.116 like a tape op assistant there, okay, assistant engineer. So 0:28:25.156 --> 0:28:27.996 I went up, I met Arthur for the first time 0:28:27.996 --> 0:28:31.156 and he was already, you know, like a successful person 0:28:31.196 --> 0:28:34.476 in the music business. And again I'm still this kid 0:28:34.516 --> 0:28:38.316 in school playing the song. He's like this is great. 0:28:38.356 --> 0:28:42.516 His main label was called street Wise Streetwise, and he 0:28:42.556 --> 0:28:45.476 said put out and it really Yeah, it doesn't really 0:28:45.516 --> 0:28:47.676 fit street Wise, but we could put it on Party Time, 0:28:47.716 --> 0:28:50.596 which is like a sub label. Said fine, and he 0:28:51.196 --> 0:28:53.756 bought the record to put Out and I said, the 0:28:53.756 --> 0:28:55.436 only thing is it has to have the def Jam 0:28:55.476 --> 0:29:00.356 logo on it. Um even though I drew that looking, 0:29:00.476 --> 0:29:03.596 you drew that looking, I drew the yeah, I did. 0:29:03.756 --> 0:29:07.756 My aunt Carol worked at Este Lauder in the creative 0:29:08.596 --> 0:29:11.956 creative services department, and I would hang out there a lot, 0:29:11.996 --> 0:29:14.556 and I used press type and I made it on 0:29:14.756 --> 0:29:17.956 a day that either they were closed or just when 0:29:17.996 --> 0:29:21.796 nobody was around at one of the designers tables, just 0:29:21.996 --> 0:29:26.316 experimenting with different things. And the reason, the reason it 0:29:26.356 --> 0:29:31.556 has the big DJ was to make that point of 0:29:31.556 --> 0:29:34.756 like this is DJ culture. So I thought having the 0:29:34.796 --> 0:29:38.836 big DJ in the logo quietly told the story of 0:29:38.876 --> 0:29:41.116 what the label was about. Was that a one day 0:29:41.156 --> 0:29:43.716 Willie drawing or was that like okay, on the fifth one, 0:29:43.836 --> 0:29:47.516 I liked this one. I tried a lot of things. 0:29:47.596 --> 0:29:49.596 I mean I tried a lot of things, but it 0:29:49.636 --> 0:29:51.676 happened pretty quick. It came in, you know, came in 0:29:51.716 --> 0:29:55.236 a day. I drew it a bunch of like uppercase 0:29:55.356 --> 0:29:58.396 lowercase what looks good and moving it around and then 0:29:58.956 --> 0:30:01.116 still have your sketches of it or are they long 0:30:01.196 --> 0:30:03.636 gone thing? So I probably long gone it. I don't. 0:30:03.676 --> 0:30:05.876 It's possible that they exist because I had a lot 0:30:05.916 --> 0:30:09.436 of stuff at my parents house and then some of 0:30:09.436 --> 0:30:12.076 that stuff is in a in storage somewhere, but I've 0:30:12.076 --> 0:30:14.036 never looked at it. I was gonna ask what does 0:30:14.076 --> 0:30:16.436 it feel? Because I've heard a mirror and Tariq say 0:30:16.516 --> 0:30:19.076 that sometimes they went on def jam just because they 0:30:19.116 --> 0:30:22.556 wanted to be able to have that logo affiliated with 0:30:22.596 --> 0:30:26.276 their name. That's gotta feel crazy, just from a drawing 0:30:26.276 --> 0:30:31.316 not eat. Yeah, like you know, I in class, I 0:30:31.436 --> 0:30:36.756 draw that logo on imaginary uh roots albums that didn't 0:30:36.756 --> 0:30:41.796 exist yet, like hanging that shit on my wall. I 0:30:41.916 --> 0:30:44.556 probably did exactly the same thing, and then it ended 0:30:44.636 --> 0:30:46.996 up becoming you know, they weren't roots albums, but they 0:30:46.996 --> 0:30:50.276 were whatever it was. It was just like playing with 0:30:50.596 --> 0:30:52.436 how do we say that, what's the name gonna be, 0:30:52.476 --> 0:30:54.676 what's it gonna look like? How does how does it work? 0:30:55.316 --> 0:30:59.476 In eighty three eighty four, how expensive are eight or 0:30:59.516 --> 0:31:03.796 eight drum machines. I don't mean that you casually come across. 0:31:04.476 --> 0:31:06.876 It's something that I luckily came across because there was 0:31:06.876 --> 0:31:09.476 a guy in my dorm room who was in an 0:31:09.876 --> 0:31:14.156 alternative rock band called the Speedies, and he had that 0:31:14.236 --> 0:31:16.916 machine and he lent he lent me the eight oweight 0:31:16.956 --> 0:31:19.876 drum machine. That's how I came across it. So were 0:31:19.876 --> 0:31:22.876 you able to program and save beats or is it 0:31:22.916 --> 0:31:25.596 just like you turn on you show what you could 0:31:25.596 --> 0:31:30.716 do in print it? You could make twenty or so 0:31:30.956 --> 0:31:36.356 pre program beats. So how long is the conversation with 0:31:36.516 --> 0:31:39.756 Russell Simmons before you realize that you're going to go 0:31:39.796 --> 0:31:42.836 into partnership with him and start the label officially? I 0:31:42.956 --> 0:31:45.916 met Russell at a party for Graffiti Rock that that 0:31:46.076 --> 0:31:52.156 TV Wow where Treacher's Three and Render Yeah. And I 0:31:52.196 --> 0:31:55.236 went there, you know, hoping that Treacher's Three would be 0:31:55.276 --> 0:31:58.076 there because they were, you know, my favorite group. And 0:31:58.436 --> 0:32:01.316 this is like an after party. This was an after 0:32:01.356 --> 0:32:05.316 party and someone introduced me to Russell and I told 0:32:05.396 --> 0:32:07.356 him I made it's yours and he couldn't believe it. 0:32:07.356 --> 0:32:12.116 It's just like no way, It's like you're white. You 0:32:12.156 --> 0:32:16.796 didn't make that record and again. But you have to 0:32:16.876 --> 0:32:19.476 understand that were there were really were well. Tom Silverman 0:32:19.596 --> 0:32:21.196 was involved in hip hop. He was the only other 0:32:21.236 --> 0:32:23.796 white person I would say that I knew who had 0:32:23.876 --> 0:32:26.796 any relationship to hip hop at that time. Yeah, but 0:32:26.836 --> 0:32:31.236 he wasn't making beats. He was he was really helpful. 0:32:31.436 --> 0:32:33.596 He was really helpful to us, like he was someone 0:32:33.916 --> 0:32:35.916 another Like I had these great mentors. I had the 0:32:35.916 --> 0:32:38.996 guy at nine nine Records, ed Ed Bellman. His name 0:32:39.116 --> 0:32:44.276 was and Um And I had to Tommy and I 0:32:44.276 --> 0:32:46.116 would call Tom's just like, hey, what do I do? 0:32:46.156 --> 0:32:49.836 Monica Lynch, who worked with Tommy, It's like what do 0:32:49.916 --> 0:32:51.956 we do? How do how do it? What's the next step? 0:32:52.196 --> 0:32:53.836 And I can remember his story. I don't think I've 0:32:53.876 --> 0:32:58.076 ever told Anyone's interesting why I was excited about having 0:32:58.156 --> 0:33:02.436 Russell as a partner. I was walking on in front 0:33:02.436 --> 0:33:05.356 of the dorm, across the street from the dorm, turning 0:33:05.396 --> 0:33:08.196 the corner I ran into and I don't even know. 0:33:08.276 --> 0:33:10.236 This is strange because I don't know how I knew 0:33:10.276 --> 0:33:12.476 who he was. But there was a writer for the 0:33:12.556 --> 0:33:18.996 Village Voice named Aaron Fuchs. He wrote the Village He 0:33:19.156 --> 0:33:21.276 was a writer first he was a he was a writer. 0:33:22.676 --> 0:33:25.276 Fus but listen, let me let me tell you, let 0:33:25.356 --> 0:33:27.156 me tell you the story. So again, it's amazing the 0:33:27.196 --> 0:33:29.596 fact that I even I don't know how I knew 0:33:29.636 --> 0:33:31.236 who he was or how it worked out that I 0:33:32.476 --> 0:33:34.596 that I, but I literally went up to him on 0:33:34.596 --> 0:33:37.556 the street and said, hey, I made this record, and 0:33:38.036 --> 0:33:39.716 what do I have to do to get people to 0:33:39.756 --> 0:33:42.676 hear it? Like how do I do this? And this 0:33:42.756 --> 0:33:44.796 was it's yours. I don't even think I had the 0:33:44.996 --> 0:33:46.676 I was just more of a conversation. It's like, how 0:33:46.716 --> 0:33:48.956 does it work? How does this work? So now I'm 0:33:48.996 --> 0:33:52.956 at the stage where because I was always comfortable asking questions, 0:33:52.996 --> 0:33:56.796 you know, I would if someone had information that I needed, 0:33:56.796 --> 0:33:59.796 I was. I felt comfortable asking and sometimes they would 0:33:59.796 --> 0:34:02.516 help and sometimes they wouldn't. So I thought he was 0:34:02.516 --> 0:34:04.236 someone who might be able to help. And I just said, 0:34:04.516 --> 0:34:06.196 you know, what's the next step? How do I get 0:34:06.196 --> 0:34:10.036 people to hear this thing? And he said, you need 0:34:10.116 --> 0:34:14.236 promotion and you can't do it. And he said the 0:34:14.356 --> 0:34:18.676 only person who knows how to do promotion for hip 0:34:18.716 --> 0:34:22.996 hop records is Russell Simmons, and Russell Simmons won't do 0:34:23.116 --> 0:34:26.156 anything for anyone except his brother Run. He works with 0:34:26.196 --> 0:34:28.476 a lot of artists, but he said, unless your run, 0:34:28.916 --> 0:34:33.036 he won't promote your records. So it's like, Okay, I'm thinking, 0:34:33.036 --> 0:34:35.876 maybe someday I'll meet this guy Rustling. At least he'll 0:34:35.916 --> 0:34:37.916 tell me what he does, even if he won't do 0:34:37.996 --> 0:34:41.436 it just in hopes of getting the word out. I 0:34:41.476 --> 0:34:43.596 gotta get to the bottom of the story. Now. If 0:34:43.636 --> 0:34:47.116 he was a writer for the Village Voice, and he 0:34:47.196 --> 0:34:53.996 too was, you know, a hopeful record mogul, yet you 0:34:54.036 --> 0:34:56.676 know the story and the fable of Aaron is that 0:34:56.756 --> 0:35:01.236 he would go hard and the paint and suing any 0:35:01.316 --> 0:35:03.996 product on deaf Jam that contains any of the samples 0:35:03.996 --> 0:35:06.796 that he owned. I would say even beyond that is 0:35:06.836 --> 0:35:10.036 that if he knew any song had the potential to 0:35:10.076 --> 0:35:11.876 be sampled, he'd try to buy up the rights so 0:35:11.916 --> 0:35:14.796 that he could sue whoever sampled it. Well, yeah, that too. 0:35:14.876 --> 0:35:18.236 But I'm almost feeling like maybe he has a personal 0:35:18.276 --> 0:35:20.396 beef with Russell that none of us are aware of, 0:35:20.596 --> 0:35:25.316 because there are other samples that he could have went 0:35:25.396 --> 0:35:27.596 after that he never did. But if it was on 0:35:27.756 --> 0:35:31.276 def Jam, it's like like goodfellas, fuck, you pay me 0:35:32.956 --> 0:35:35.836 I always wanted to know if that was if there 0:35:35.916 --> 0:35:38.756 was like a burnt bridge, and it's sort of like, Okay, 0:35:39.076 --> 0:35:40.956 I'm gonna get you. When he told when he told 0:35:40.956 --> 0:35:44.156 me about Russell, he was not positive about him. It 0:35:44.236 --> 0:35:47.076 was not a positive conversation, but it was just this. 0:35:47.876 --> 0:35:56.316 It was a piece of information that was helpful. There's 0:35:56.356 --> 0:36:00.076 an article that or a block that Harry Allen once 0:36:00.116 --> 0:36:05.036 wrote in an honor of your early production methods, in 0:36:05.076 --> 0:36:09.036 which you know, it's noted that you have the left 0:36:09.156 --> 0:36:13.396 out as eight h eight sounds the loudest scratches, like 0:36:13.476 --> 0:36:16.036 your scratches on going back to CALLI like, it's just 0:36:16.236 --> 0:36:20.476 louder than everything. So even like what's your engineering process 0:36:20.596 --> 0:36:23.596 or just your whole theory on pushing it to the limit, 0:36:25.116 --> 0:36:29.956 there is none I will say. I like, if you're 0:36:29.996 --> 0:36:33.236 gonna put something in there, I want to be able 0:36:33.276 --> 0:36:36.716 to hear it, Like I want the idea of having 0:36:36.796 --> 0:36:40.076 scratching as this sort of background element that's going on 0:36:40.156 --> 0:36:43.476 all the time is not so interesting to me. It's like, 0:36:43.476 --> 0:36:46.756 if it's gonna be there, it should be only exactly 0:36:46.756 --> 0:36:48.876 when it needs to be there, and it should be 0:36:49.076 --> 0:36:53.316 crazy loud because in some ways It's like it's like 0:36:53.476 --> 0:36:57.516 lead guitar, you know, it's a punctuation moment. It's not 0:36:57.556 --> 0:37:00.356 a background sound. And as a rule, I'm not so 0:37:00.436 --> 0:37:04.316 into background sounds. You know. It's more about having the 0:37:04.436 --> 0:37:08.996 least amount of stuff going on, creating space where each 0:37:09.276 --> 0:37:13.156 thing that you hear, hopefully very few of them sound 0:37:13.396 --> 0:37:16.996 as clear and have as much personality as possible. And 0:37:17.036 --> 0:37:21.796 as soon as you start blanketing sounds, all of each 0:37:21.836 --> 0:37:24.916 of those sounds gets diminished. And I can hear that 0:37:24.996 --> 0:37:27.356 in your I can really hear that in your rock production, 0:37:27.436 --> 0:37:32.796 predicular particularly on Californication, which is probably my favorite Rick 0:37:32.876 --> 0:37:37.076 Rubin produced album. But but now I love that recommend. 0:37:37.156 --> 0:37:39.636 Like I when I preserted it was just I was 0:37:39.676 --> 0:37:41.476 taken it back by just how the way you track 0:37:41.556 --> 0:37:45.476 Anthony's vocals, Like it sounded almost like to the edge 0:37:45.476 --> 0:37:47.596 of distortion but not quite, and it just had that 0:37:47.876 --> 0:37:50.236 kind of grid on it, and it was just really 0:37:50.236 --> 0:37:54.396 in your face. And I love that record. I just 0:37:54.396 --> 0:37:57.276 want to get balls on that one. So you were 0:37:57.356 --> 0:37:58.996 you were about to tell the rock the Bell story. 0:37:59.036 --> 0:38:02.796 I think, yeah, I'll tell you what I remember, but 0:38:02.796 --> 0:38:05.356 but I don't remember the Bob James record ever being 0:38:05.396 --> 0:38:08.556 in the conversation. It may have been it may have 0:38:08.596 --> 0:38:13.076 been something that L had been thinking and wanting to do. Okay, okay, 0:38:13.116 --> 0:38:17.636 but I don't remember it. I don't remember talking about it. Yeah, 0:38:17.676 --> 0:38:20.076 I was gonna say, it's even possible that when it 0:38:20.156 --> 0:38:23.676 was time to record it, that he suggested it, And 0:38:23.916 --> 0:38:26.236 it is possible that we were already working on the 0:38:26.316 --> 0:38:29.636 run DMC, the Peter Piper song. It is possible, all right, 0:38:29.916 --> 0:38:32.836 what was your one of the one of the factors 0:38:32.876 --> 0:38:36.596 that you also used in your early production was the 0:38:36.596 --> 0:38:39.596 sound of Go Go and rock the bells and then 0:38:39.636 --> 0:38:43.836 She's crafty um and also you know, I'll say that 0:38:44.956 --> 0:38:48.916 one of the things I've done in the Quarantine Punishment 0:38:49.276 --> 0:38:54.716 is practically purchase every Go Go album made available and 0:38:55.516 --> 0:38:58.996 nothing I hate. And I know a lot of it 0:38:59.036 --> 0:39:02.116 has to do with either the studios that they record in. 0:39:02.196 --> 0:39:07.756 Either it's too clean or it's too amateurish. But Sardines, 0:39:07.876 --> 0:39:14.236 to me is probably the best. Yeah, Sardines is probably 0:39:14.276 --> 0:39:18.116 the best produced Go Go record, probably second to Pump 0:39:18.156 --> 0:39:22.156 Me Up. So, first of all, Sardines is such a 0:39:22.276 --> 0:39:26.596 stripped down song. How did you record Junkyard drop the bombs? 0:39:26.596 --> 0:39:31.996 Incredible to Okay, I'll say early early Trump of early 0:39:32.036 --> 0:39:35.636 Trump Funk. Yes, there, there, there there. Mixing was immaculate. 0:39:35.716 --> 0:39:39.756 But um, what was the process in recording the Junkyard 0:39:39.796 --> 0:39:45.156 band and why didn't you press on further with them? Okay, 0:39:45.276 --> 0:39:48.836 let me, I'm gonna just talk for a second about 0:39:49.476 --> 0:39:52.036 I agree with you. The only the only Go Go 0:39:52.196 --> 0:39:55.756 records I like are old Trouble Funk records other than Sardines, 0:39:55.756 --> 0:39:59.276 which I think was good. And I want to talk 0:39:59.276 --> 0:40:03.196 about that a little bit because what you're describing is 0:40:03.276 --> 0:40:07.116 exactly the way I felt about hip hop where you 0:40:07.156 --> 0:40:10.156 could buy in those days, early days of hip hop, 0:40:10.236 --> 0:40:12.596 I could buy a twelve inch or two every week. 0:40:12.636 --> 0:40:14.356 That's all that would come out. That would be hip hop. 0:40:14.956 --> 0:40:20.196 And none of them did for me what the Trouble 0:40:20.236 --> 0:40:22.716 Funk records did as it relates to Go Go. Do 0:40:22.756 --> 0:40:26.476 you know what I'm saying. Yeah, it's like the the 0:40:26.596 --> 0:40:30.356 hip hop records were like the bad Go Go records. Say, 0:40:30.396 --> 0:40:33.236 it's the same, It's the same in any genre. It's like, 0:40:33.396 --> 0:40:36.796 it's not about the genre, it's the way the records 0:40:36.796 --> 0:40:39.876 are made. And in some ways I felt like Gogo 0:40:39.996 --> 0:40:42.596 was gonna be the next hip hop. I usually believe 0:40:42.676 --> 0:40:45.636 that was going to happen, but they didn't make the 0:40:45.716 --> 0:40:52.316 right records. They sounded, they watered down what Gogo was. Yeah, 0:40:52.756 --> 0:40:55.876 like the records on Island. Island signed all the bands, 0:40:56.636 --> 0:40:59.956 and those records are terrible. Do you think that's because 0:41:00.036 --> 0:41:03.476 it's kind of designed for it to be a live 0:41:03.556 --> 0:41:06.676 situation more than a record at the end of the day, 0:41:06.716 --> 0:41:11.316 like a studio album. I just think the wrong people 0:41:11.476 --> 0:41:14.756 were helping make the music, the wrong people were involved 0:41:14.836 --> 0:41:19.076 on the recording side. Yes, I don't like how half 0:41:19.076 --> 0:41:23.156 the Google records are engineered. Not I mean, I love 0:41:23.316 --> 0:41:27.236 Rare Essence more than any band on Earth, but it 0:41:27.356 --> 0:41:32.436 just frustrates me that the energy and that the engineering 0:41:33.476 --> 0:41:37.116 of when I hear them live or even I hear 0:41:37.196 --> 0:41:40.396 like some of their live mixtapes, that's not captured on 0:41:40.436 --> 0:41:44.156 a studio cut. For me, that's what I'm ye. And 0:41:44.236 --> 0:41:49.596 so why was Sardines and the Word just a one 0:41:49.636 --> 0:41:53.516 off twelve inch? Was there ever a conversation about recording 0:41:54.116 --> 0:41:57.236 Junkyard as a band or I'm Not as a band 0:41:57.276 --> 0:42:00.356 as a full album? I don't. I don't really remember, 0:42:00.396 --> 0:42:03.996 and I think not long after I ended up leaving 0:42:03.996 --> 0:42:07.276 Deaf Jam. So it may have been that it was 0:42:07.356 --> 0:42:10.276 just like towards the end of the time that I 0:42:10.316 --> 0:42:13.436 was doing stuff with def Jam and then just stopped. 0:42:13.676 --> 0:42:16.196 But I don't remember. I don't remember there being First 0:42:16.236 --> 0:42:18.636 of all, nobody particularly cared about it, like we liked it, 0:42:18.956 --> 0:42:22.476 but it's not like there was any demand for the 0:42:22.556 --> 0:42:25.996 Junkyard band. As crazy as that sounds, I loved them. 0:42:26.356 --> 0:42:29.836 I was told to ask you about the making of 0:42:29.996 --> 0:42:36.316 Crush Groove the song. What tell me the story the 0:42:36.436 --> 0:42:41.116 making of Crush Groove the song? What's I was thinking, 0:42:41.356 --> 0:42:45.476 it's funny that this has been I couldn't. I didn't 0:42:45.556 --> 0:42:49.196 remember what song that was there. I had a memory 0:42:49.236 --> 0:42:52.396 that we did a song with run DMC and other artists, 0:42:52.636 --> 0:42:56.036 and I remember the conversation in the studio because it 0:42:56.116 --> 0:43:00.276 was heated and particularly as it related to me, like 0:43:00.316 --> 0:43:03.396 I was very unhappy with what was going on, and 0:43:03.476 --> 0:43:05.036 I thought it for some reason, I thought it was 0:43:05.076 --> 0:43:08.076 a Christmas song, but have come to realize it's actually 0:43:08.116 --> 0:43:10.796 that Crush Groove song and um and I could never 0:43:10.836 --> 0:43:13.436 find it anywhere because it's listed as the Crush Grewve 0:43:13.556 --> 0:43:17.596 All Stars. So yeah, so it's not like if you're 0:43:17.636 --> 0:43:20.636 looking back at run DMC songs, that comes up right. 0:43:20.716 --> 0:43:22.636 So I haven't heard it in a long time, but 0:43:22.716 --> 0:43:25.316 I had this vague memory. It's like we did this song, 0:43:25.676 --> 0:43:27.156 and I remember there was a little bit of an 0:43:27.236 --> 0:43:29.436 argument in the studio, and what the argument was was, 0:43:29.476 --> 0:43:32.076 if you listen to the track, should we play it 0:43:32.116 --> 0:43:34.316 because it'll it'll or at least play some of it. 0:43:34.396 --> 0:43:37.076 You want to play a little bit of it? The track? 0:43:38.716 --> 0:43:40.756 Who were the who the who are the other artists 0:43:40.796 --> 0:43:47.156 on it? Do you remember? Okay, the movie people wanted 0:43:47.196 --> 0:43:50.876 a song for the movie. They got the Fat Boys, 0:43:50.916 --> 0:43:56.076 Sheila E and Curtis Blow on this track. That sounded 0:43:56.156 --> 0:44:00.796 like a track that would fit on maybe any one 0:44:00.836 --> 0:44:03.396 of the three of their albums, maybe she'lla E Less, 0:44:03.956 --> 0:44:06.676 But it sounded most like a Fat Boys record or 0:44:06.796 --> 0:44:10.116 Curtis Curtis Blow record. Yeah, it sounds like a pop 0:44:10.116 --> 0:44:13.676 word Curtis Blow record. So when we got to the studio, okay, 0:44:13.756 --> 0:44:18.596 do you want to play it? Rush Man Biting Love, 0:44:20.156 --> 0:44:39.476 Rush Biting Love that I think I was five when 0:44:39.476 --> 0:45:03.036 it came out. I love this fucking song way now. Well, okay, 0:45:03.036 --> 0:45:05.836 so what's what's When we got to the studio. The 0:45:05.916 --> 0:45:09.316 mission was, we're doing this song for the movie. They 0:45:09.356 --> 0:45:12.556 provided us this song. The other MC's ready on it, 0:45:12.636 --> 0:45:15.636 and now I'm there as Run DMC's producer, and they're 0:45:15.636 --> 0:45:19.196 supposed to get on this on this track. And it 0:45:19.316 --> 0:45:21.756 sounded only like the beginning of the song didn't sound 0:45:21.796 --> 0:45:24.516 like the run DMC part right, And I said, there's 0:45:24.596 --> 0:45:26.956 no way Run DMC could be on this. They cannot 0:45:26.996 --> 0:45:29.356 be on this. It's like, this sounds like a Fat 0:45:29.396 --> 0:45:32.876 Boys record. This sounds like a Curtis Blow record. That's 0:45:32.916 --> 0:45:35.956 not a Run DMC record. I love Run DMC. This 0:45:36.036 --> 0:45:39.316 is something else. And and then I said, well, the 0:45:39.396 --> 0:45:42.396 only way we could have Run DMC on this would 0:45:42.436 --> 0:45:45.916 be if we make our own track and drop it 0:45:45.956 --> 0:45:48.636 in in the middle where it could sound like this 0:45:48.716 --> 0:45:53.516 is a run DMC song. And that's it's how that 0:45:53.636 --> 0:45:55.476 ended up. And I was the only one who cared. 0:45:55.556 --> 0:45:58.356 Nobody else cared nobody, you know, it would have just 0:45:58.436 --> 0:46:01.956 been like Larry, Larry and Curtis weren't offended. I don't. 0:46:02.116 --> 0:46:05.756 I don't even know. I didn't even know who produced it. Yeah, 0:46:05.796 --> 0:46:09.476 I didn't know that. I do remember Curtis was stuff 0:46:09.516 --> 0:46:11.876 after saying how come I can't be over the part 0:46:11.956 --> 0:46:17.956 that runs on like, how come he couldn't write breakdown? Yeah, 0:46:18.076 --> 0:46:21.516 the breakdown? Can you talk about? You know, there's there's 0:46:21.596 --> 0:46:27.396 producer as as song clinician and arranger and music person, 0:46:27.676 --> 0:46:31.636 and there's something about producer as social psychologist. And I 0:46:31.676 --> 0:46:35.796 feel like, your your life and correct me if I'm wrong. 0:46:35.956 --> 0:46:38.676 It's sort of this weird thing that rides between them 0:46:38.676 --> 0:46:42.156 and the great producers that I know run this line 0:46:42.196 --> 0:46:45.276 that I don't fully understand how to run, and I 0:46:45.276 --> 0:46:47.796 feel like you've mastered it and and in your career 0:46:47.876 --> 0:46:50.596 have sort of defined what a producer is. And so 0:46:50.836 --> 0:46:53.076 there are some producers that are that are beat makers, 0:46:53.076 --> 0:46:56.316 there are some producers that are songwriters. You're able to 0:46:56.356 --> 0:46:59.036 encompass all of them, and not only in one particular genre, 0:46:59.076 --> 0:47:02.676 but in about four or five. So like, I don't know. 0:47:02.716 --> 0:47:05.116 I mean, you call yourself a reducer, and I get 0:47:05.156 --> 0:47:07.756 that sort of play on words, but like, I don't know, 0:47:07.836 --> 0:47:09.796 what what is it? What is it about all of 0:47:09.796 --> 0:47:12.356 that that makes it work, that makes that makes you 0:47:12.436 --> 0:47:14.276 enjoy what you do as well? Because that to me 0:47:14.396 --> 0:47:18.636 is fascinating. I'll say that I think it always changes 0:47:18.636 --> 0:47:20.036 at the time that I was more of a beat 0:47:20.076 --> 0:47:23.156 making producer, which are the days we're talking about now 0:47:23.516 --> 0:47:29.236 I was. I was not good at the psychology part 0:47:29.516 --> 0:47:33.796 and the collaborating I was not good. I was much 0:47:33.876 --> 0:47:36.996 more of a I know what's good and you're going 0:47:37.076 --> 0:47:40.156 to do it my way, probably for my hip hop 0:47:40.156 --> 0:47:43.316 early hip hop days. And then as I started working 0:47:43.316 --> 0:47:48.316 with more rock bands, I started understanding more the dynamics 0:47:48.476 --> 0:47:52.436 of working with a group of people. And now the 0:47:52.476 --> 0:47:54.636 most interesting thing for me when I work with an 0:47:54.756 --> 0:47:59.676 artist is I can clearly point out where I think 0:48:00.036 --> 0:48:03.996 the strengths and weaknesses are. But I don't feel like 0:48:04.036 --> 0:48:09.596 it's my responsibility to solve the weaknesses. All I have 0:48:09.636 --> 0:48:12.276 to do is point out, like, M, this section here 0:48:12.356 --> 0:48:14.036 isn't as good as it could be. What can we 0:48:14.036 --> 0:48:15.956 do to make it better? Whereas in the old days, 0:48:15.996 --> 0:48:18.596 I'd say this section isn't as good and this is 0:48:18.596 --> 0:48:22.636 what we're gonna do. Now it's this part isn't as good. 0:48:23.716 --> 0:48:25.956 How do you guys suggest we fix it? And all 0:48:25.956 --> 0:48:28.556 of that is subjective. It's all based on your opinion, right, 0:48:28.556 --> 0:48:30.556 I mean, like it's it's all how you. All it 0:48:30.596 --> 0:48:33.196 is is opinion. Everything everything has to do with opinion. 0:48:33.836 --> 0:48:37.116 The whole job, the whole job of doing this is 0:48:37.236 --> 0:48:43.876 pure opinion. Yeah yeah, Okay, So before before I get 0:48:43.916 --> 0:48:47.916 to the Beastie Boys, well Unpaid Bill sort of sorry 0:48:47.996 --> 0:48:51.556 enemy to divert, but I was because actually my next 0:48:51.596 --> 0:48:54.956 question leads to what you headed with uh Unpaid Bill, 0:48:55.036 --> 0:48:59.596 which is basically, whenever you show up and whenever you 0:48:59.676 --> 0:49:03.516 show up in the credits, two things are bound to happen, 0:49:04.116 --> 0:49:09.756 and that is you're going to us to sound. So 0:49:09.756 --> 0:49:12.396 we already talked about the idea of you stripping stuff 0:49:12.436 --> 0:49:15.076 down to just its bare bones and making it loud. 0:49:15.996 --> 0:49:22.276 But it's also you really introduced the idea of cross 0:49:22.276 --> 0:49:28.236 genres in modern hip hop music. I mean with with 0:49:28.396 --> 0:49:32.636 RUNDEMC having their biggest hit with Walk This Way, even 0:49:32.716 --> 0:49:36.236 with the Beastie Boys, at least in their their narrative 0:49:36.276 --> 0:49:39.076 of it, like we were making fun of smoking in 0:49:39.116 --> 0:49:42.076 the boys rooms and now here we go with fight 0:49:42.156 --> 0:49:45.276 for You Right to Party. But even with Johnny Cash 0:49:45.316 --> 0:49:51.596 doing Hurt, or even with Mick Jaggers singing over and 0:49:51.676 --> 0:49:54.996 Peach the President, even with the stuff with Slayer or 0:49:55.196 --> 0:49:58.836 working with Neil Diamond, like there's always an element or 0:49:58.956 --> 0:50:04.756 Kanye rhyming over industrial shrew noises. There seems to be 0:50:04.916 --> 0:50:10.436 a common denominator of you pushing artists. I don't willing 0:50:10.556 --> 0:50:12.876 or unwillingly. I mean, Kanye seems like the type of 0:50:12.876 --> 0:50:15.476 person that's like, let's let's let's go to the edge 0:50:15.516 --> 0:50:18.516 of it, let's do something different, whereas like run DMC 0:50:18.756 --> 0:50:22.236 was legendary for not liking or wanting to do walk 0:50:22.316 --> 0:50:24.916 this way the way that you wanted them to do it. 0:50:25.316 --> 0:50:30.236 So how much hold handing and Jedi mind tricks and 0:50:30.516 --> 0:50:34.236 psychology it's all psychology? It seems like, yeah, how like, 0:50:34.956 --> 0:50:38.076 how much of that is a nightmare for you when 0:50:38.116 --> 0:50:40.076 you just want to make the damn song and leave? 0:50:42.716 --> 0:50:45.236 My whole relationship too has changed over the years. So 0:50:45.316 --> 0:50:49.236 in the case of run DMC, then it was frustrating 0:50:49.276 --> 0:50:50.916 and I didn't have the tools to deal with it. 0:50:50.956 --> 0:50:57.796 But luckily Russell called called run in dy and said, 0:50:58.036 --> 0:51:01.196 just do whatever Rick says. It's like real knows what 0:51:01.236 --> 0:51:04.276 he's doing. Just do what Rick says. So had that 0:51:04.396 --> 0:51:06.356 not happened, they wouldn't have they wouldn't have been on 0:51:06.396 --> 0:51:09.316 the record. That record wouldn't have happened. So it that's 0:51:09.316 --> 0:51:13.196 how that happened, and even after Rockbox and King of Rock, 0:51:14.716 --> 0:51:17.756 they don't know that they're on a winning formula, just 0:51:17.916 --> 0:51:23.516 like one one moment away from super Jackpot. Well, this 0:51:23.596 --> 0:51:26.436 had less to do with it being a rock song. 0:51:26.636 --> 0:51:29.876 Had more to do with singing someone else's words and 0:51:29.956 --> 0:51:32.636 singing someone else's which they had never done before, and 0:51:32.756 --> 0:51:36.916 singing someone else's words that they didn't necessarily like. How 0:51:36.956 --> 0:51:39.756 long did that process take? Walk this way? I'm talking 0:51:41.356 --> 0:51:43.476 same as everything you know, same as everything else. The 0:51:43.516 --> 0:51:46.316 only thing that was different was because Steve and Joe 0:51:46.436 --> 0:51:49.556 appeared on the record. There was an extra day working 0:51:49.596 --> 0:51:53.596 on it with those guys playing guitar and singing, singing vocals, 0:51:53.716 --> 0:51:58.676 the guys from Aosmith with the Beastie Boys. Well, first 0:51:58.676 --> 0:52:01.676 of all, I want to know who introduced I have 0:52:01.796 --> 0:52:05.516 so many questions. Number One, the Beastie Groove Rock Hard 0:52:05.796 --> 0:52:11.676 twelve inch Who were the Latin Rascals because I've always 0:52:11.956 --> 0:52:14.756 I've seen their names and like all these twelve inches 0:52:14.796 --> 0:52:19.116 from eighty three to eighty five, and then poof Nothing, 0:52:19.156 --> 0:52:22.916 who were the Latin Rascals? The Latin Rascals were two 0:52:23.476 --> 0:52:28.036 club DJs who worked at Shakedown Arthur Arthur Baker's studio 0:52:28.796 --> 0:52:34.276 who invented this is pre sampler. There were no samplers, 0:52:35.396 --> 0:52:40.756 and they invented away. It was their own style of 0:52:40.796 --> 0:52:46.636 doing remixes where they would do these edits on half 0:52:46.676 --> 0:52:51.876 inch tape where they would repeat the same like dad 0:52:54.516 --> 0:52:58.236 one through editing. So it was like it wasn't scratching. 0:52:59.156 --> 0:53:02.716 There was no sampling yet, and there was this other 0:53:02.796 --> 0:53:07.436 way of manipulating the music, and the Latin Rascals invented it, 0:53:07.716 --> 0:53:12.396 and they did it on all of Arthur's records and 0:53:11.556 --> 0:53:14.436 um and they did a lot of club remixes and that, 0:53:14.516 --> 0:53:17.156 and I can't remember what they did on that. I 0:53:17.156 --> 0:53:19.676 don't remember them doing anything on those, but it's possible. 0:53:19.756 --> 0:53:24.756 On this Party's Getting Rough, that little see Philadelphia where 0:53:24.756 --> 0:53:28.956 I come from, has a very different relationship with this 0:53:28.996 --> 0:53:32.756 Party's getting rough and hold it now hit it, you know, 0:53:32.876 --> 0:53:36.876 because Lady b and her Street By show that came 0:53:36.916 --> 0:53:39.796 on a Power ninety nine between like twelve and five 0:53:40.036 --> 0:53:45.356 pm on Sundays, they made they basically made an edit 0:53:45.756 --> 0:53:50.916 where they would play that middle sketch of this Party's 0:53:50.916 --> 0:53:53.396 Getting Rough where it's like, oh man, you just fested man, yo, 0:53:53.476 --> 0:53:56.196 you you didn't even turn up the boombox and all 0:53:56.196 --> 0:54:00.876 that stuff, all all all that chaos in the middle, 0:54:01.236 --> 0:54:04.036 and then they attached I don't remember it. I don't 0:54:04.076 --> 0:54:06.596 really remember man. Yeah, this is this like the Philly anthem. 0:54:06.676 --> 0:54:09.836 So they made they kind of made an edit. Philly 0:54:09.836 --> 0:54:13.716 made an editor of their own of this party's getting 0:54:13.796 --> 0:54:19.316 rough and the Beastie groove and just between Latin rascals 0:54:19.316 --> 0:54:24.316 and mantronics. Just the idea of like multiple sampling or 0:54:24.476 --> 0:54:28.276 like those crazy edits. That's all we heard. But what's 0:54:28.316 --> 0:54:31.356 even weirder for holding Now Hit It? Because of a 0:54:31.436 --> 0:54:35.476 pressing mistake. The initial Deaf Jam pressings have hold It 0:54:35.516 --> 0:54:40.836 Now Hit It had the acapella as side one, Yes, 0:54:41.676 --> 0:54:47.556 had the acappella as side one, and the the DMX 0:54:47.836 --> 0:54:50.596 drum Machine version that's on the album as side too. 0:54:51.396 --> 0:54:56.236 We never heard of the drum machine version in Philly ever, 0:54:56.996 --> 0:54:59.556 So when when they're playing hold It, Now Hit It, 0:55:00.276 --> 0:55:03.156 there's no such thing as an acappella or you juggling 0:55:03.196 --> 0:55:07.676 called it acapulco version. Yeah, and we thought, yo, dude, 0:55:07.756 --> 0:55:09.996 it was such. It was the most radical shit we 0:55:10.036 --> 0:55:13.156 ever heard. Because our thing was like the only way 0:55:13.156 --> 0:55:15.116 I can to describe it is if you ever seen 0:55:15.116 --> 0:55:19.676 Pootie Tang And when Chris Rock asked, the DJ introduces 0:55:19.716 --> 0:55:23.396 that song of silence, like and now this new song. Yeah, 0:55:28.756 --> 0:55:30.996 I'm just saying he's friends with Chris Rock. I don't 0:55:31.036 --> 0:55:33.836 know anyway. The whole point was that we made up 0:55:33.836 --> 0:55:38.116 in our minds like, yo, these dudes are so incredible 0:55:38.316 --> 0:55:42.956 they don't even need music and hold it now hit it. 0:55:43.036 --> 0:55:47.356 The acapella was number one on the Power nine at 0:55:47.476 --> 0:55:52.436 nine for months. Wow, to the point where when we 0:55:52.636 --> 0:55:55.916 got the album and heard that drum. Now, it's weird 0:55:56.156 --> 0:56:00.516 because in Florida, every everyone from down south, I know, 0:56:00.596 --> 0:56:03.596 even Premier tells the story like when you're getting your 0:56:03.596 --> 0:56:07.676 car system, the song that you tested to see if 0:56:07.676 --> 0:56:12.956 you're if you're almost rights holding now hit it because 0:56:12.996 --> 0:56:16.756 you like you mix your your joints loud as fuck. 0:56:17.876 --> 0:56:19.796 When we got that in Philly, we didn't know what 0:56:19.876 --> 0:56:22.836 the like, Yo, what's this drum? Shit like this ain't 0:56:22.876 --> 0:56:25.796 on the album. To this day, I will never acknowledge 0:56:26.396 --> 0:56:29.676 the album version of holding Out Hit I will only 0:56:29.796 --> 0:56:33.596 DJ the acapella version, but even love to hear I've 0:56:33.596 --> 0:56:35.716 never heard the acapella version. I'd love to hear it. 0:56:35.876 --> 0:56:39.236 I don't remember ever hearing it. Bet it's great, probably better, 0:56:39.396 --> 0:56:45.996 that's crazy. It's your labels. It's the first acapella in 0:56:46.116 --> 0:56:52.596 history like that, Yeah, it's the first acapoca in history. 0:56:52.836 --> 0:56:57.316 And in working their album, like how involved are you 0:56:57.436 --> 0:57:01.436 with with the marketing? And because I'll be honest with you, 0:57:01.756 --> 0:57:05.196 we for two years from eighty five till we purchased 0:57:05.196 --> 0:57:07.916 the album and saw the gatefold cover. I didn't know 0:57:07.956 --> 0:57:10.636 the Best boys were white. We thought they were Puerto 0:57:10.716 --> 0:57:16.396 Rican affili at least, So was that by design to 0:57:16.756 --> 0:57:19.756 like not put them on the album cover and just 0:57:19.836 --> 0:57:23.036 to ride it out till not at all the way 0:57:23.076 --> 0:57:25.516 we did it. We didn't. We never even thought about it. 0:57:26.196 --> 0:57:32.356 On the seven original def Jam singles, the Maroon label singles, 0:57:32.956 --> 0:57:36.076 of which where rock Hard was one of those, I 0:57:36.076 --> 0:57:38.916 think that's the only BC record that was in those 0:57:39.916 --> 0:57:43.716 There was an LLL. There was that. There was Hollis Creek, 0:57:44.076 --> 0:57:49.956 Hollis Crewe, Jimmy Spicer' I'm a Girl Watcher with Papa 0:57:50.036 --> 0:57:53.436 d and Papa Son. I don't think that was on Maroon. 0:57:54.836 --> 0:57:59.996 Oh okay, well there was also mcam Bazooti. Yeah, yeah, 0:58:00.316 --> 0:58:02.676 Zooti is an engineer in New York named Jay Burnett, 0:58:03.276 --> 0:58:05.196 and he was the guy who turned me onto the 0:58:05.236 --> 0:58:11.956 studio that we lovingly renamed Chung King. The original, the 0:58:11.956 --> 0:58:16.276 original chunking, the unking Wow. Yeah. And the reason I 0:58:16.316 --> 0:58:18.476 called it chun King was I didn't want anyone to 0:58:18.516 --> 0:58:20.636 know that it was such a terrible place that we 0:58:20.636 --> 0:58:23.236 were working in, so I made up Chunking. House of 0:58:23.236 --> 0:58:27.796 Metal was like a just the one or the other, 0:58:28.676 --> 0:58:38.836 the one on There was one it was on was 0:58:38.876 --> 0:58:42.636 a church between Broom and Grand something like that. Across 0:58:42.676 --> 0:58:44.596 from the pool. There's that police building, you know, the 0:58:44.636 --> 0:58:48.396 police building. It was on mat block, five floor walk up. 0:58:48.556 --> 0:58:51.996 The rest of the building were like sweatshops. It was 0:58:51.996 --> 0:58:54.596 a really weird place. It was it really Again, I 0:58:54.636 --> 0:58:56.956 didn't know this because I wasn't into it, but it 0:58:56.996 --> 0:59:01.516 was just a drug dealing place they had They just 0:59:01.636 --> 0:59:03.676 had a studio, but it was mainly drug dealing. But 0:59:03.676 --> 0:59:10.956 I didn't know that those Steve Yes, you know, speaking 0:59:10.956 --> 0:59:13.516 of which you know, I don't mean that I was 0:59:13.556 --> 0:59:16.396 just I'm reminiscent. I think I think I was at 0:59:16.436 --> 0:59:20.116 that place dropping off tapes at first as an intern. Yeah, 0:59:20.116 --> 0:59:23.356 the first place. Yeah, it was, I was only there ONCET. 0:59:24.036 --> 0:59:29.116 But we recorded, um, all of the BCT boys stuff there. 0:59:29.116 --> 0:59:33.396 We recorded raising hell there recorded a lot of the 0:59:33.396 --> 0:59:36.116 early def jam stuff there, maybe all of it, maybe 0:59:36.116 --> 0:59:38.596 all of it. I was gonna say, Steve, that that 0:59:38.836 --> 0:59:46.396 DMX dram machine that's taking in our studio. Yeah, that's ricks. Yeah, 0:59:46.476 --> 0:59:49.396 I know, I know this is all tell the world, 0:59:49.516 --> 0:59:53.756 but you know, I mean that in this room. Okay? 0:59:53.956 --> 0:59:58.316 Is that a stolen or no? Um? We know, is it? 0:59:59.036 --> 1:00:01.716 You know what? We had to re record. I can't 1:00:01.836 --> 1:00:05.676 right left handed with John Legend, and we were running 1:00:05.676 --> 1:00:08.556 out of studios and it just so happens that that 1:00:08.636 --> 1:00:10.676 was open. And when we got there, we were told 1:00:10.796 --> 1:00:14.076 this is our last day and kind of you know, 1:00:14.276 --> 1:00:15.996 I was just like doing my fan boys thing like, 1:00:16.076 --> 1:00:18.596 oh my god, this is the old Chunk King and no, no, 1:00:18.676 --> 1:00:21.036 no no. And whoever the owner was a guy he's 1:00:21.036 --> 1:00:23.876 like just like on some Me and Joe Green here 1:00:23.876 --> 1:00:28.396 a kid catch um wow, he showed me this season 1:00:28.556 --> 1:00:31.396 is this DMX And he's just created you know, all 1:00:31.396 --> 1:00:33.876 the deaf jam days has been here forever. You know, 1:00:33.916 --> 1:00:37.956 you'll take care of this and I took it. Sorry 1:00:37.996 --> 1:00:46.196 Vitt anyway, may that may or may not be true. Well, 1:00:47.916 --> 1:00:53.236 I'm sure there's multiple I'm sure there's multiple DMX drum scenes, 1:00:53.236 --> 1:00:56.476 but I prefer my version of it. Um was the 1:00:56.716 --> 1:01:00.316 was the just the floodgate of License to Ill? Was 1:01:00.356 --> 1:01:03.236 that scary to you or overwhelming at the time? And 1:01:03.956 --> 1:01:07.276 how are you guys treated by Columbia Records? By this 1:01:07.356 --> 1:01:13.556 point we would never eated well by anybody, even when 1:01:13.716 --> 1:01:23.316 selling twelve million units? Yes, even then, man? Really why so? 1:01:23.356 --> 1:01:24.956 He was still we were off the red nose the rain. 1:01:25.596 --> 1:01:29.836 I mean it was yet Nikoff period. Was this uh 1:01:29.956 --> 1:01:33.436 Montola period? Like where was yet nikoffin a'l teller? Those 1:01:33.476 --> 1:01:36.516 were the people that I don't teller from MCA was 1:01:36.596 --> 1:01:40.196 at Columbia first. He was the president of Columbia at 1:01:40.196 --> 1:01:43.076 the time that we were there. Damn. The only person 1:01:43.156 --> 1:01:45.596 that I ever really dealt with on a regular basis 1:01:45.636 --> 1:01:47.396 was Jeff Jones, who was a great guy. He was 1:01:47.396 --> 1:01:51.276 a product manager and he now runs Apple Records for 1:01:51.316 --> 1:01:54.396 the Beatles based in London, and he's still around and 1:01:54.436 --> 1:01:58.116 he remembers, like he told me stories of things that 1:01:58.196 --> 1:02:00.596 happened back then that I didn't remember. But it was funny, 1:02:00.836 --> 1:02:04.796 like like with License to Ill? He said he goes 1:02:04.836 --> 1:02:06.956 into a meeting, is like, well, Rick Rubin says, we 1:02:06.996 --> 1:02:08.916 can't put a bar code on the outside of the cover, 1:02:09.876 --> 1:02:11.396 and uh, you know, we have to figure out how 1:02:11.436 --> 1:02:13.276 we're going to do this because we've never done this before. 1:02:13.756 --> 1:02:15.596 And that, you know, the people in the meeting like, 1:02:15.636 --> 1:02:17.356 who the fuck is Rick Rubin? What do you mean? 1:02:17.396 --> 1:02:19.556 It's like, we do this all, we're doing this. Of 1:02:19.556 --> 1:02:21.716 course it's going to have a barcode. He's like, no, 1:02:21.796 --> 1:02:23.796 but Rick won't let us have the barcode. He's like, 1:02:23.836 --> 1:02:28.076 he's insistent. So again, I had no memory of that. 1:02:28.156 --> 1:02:31.476 But we would fight, We would fight for the art, 1:02:31.556 --> 1:02:33.196 to get the art the way we want it all 1:02:33.236 --> 1:02:35.196 the time, and people just didn't know what it was, 1:02:35.436 --> 1:02:37.716 you know, you say, it's very little understanding of what 1:02:37.756 --> 1:02:40.556 it was that we were doing. Who conceptualize the album 1:02:40.596 --> 1:02:45.396 cover for License to Ill? That was me, I'll tell you. 1:02:46.036 --> 1:02:50.356 I had just read the led Zeppelin book Camera the 1:02:50.396 --> 1:02:54.636 Gods about them being on torn all the debauchery of 1:02:55.316 --> 1:03:01.236 crazy rock stardom and I and there were images of 1:03:01.316 --> 1:03:05.796 led Zeppelin's airplane in the book, and it just seemed like, wow, 1:03:05.836 --> 1:03:09.956 that's just like the height of decadence. This an airplane 1:03:10.116 --> 1:03:13.796 at with this crazy rock and roll lifestyle going on, 1:03:14.476 --> 1:03:17.596 and I thought it would be interesting to have a 1:03:17.716 --> 1:03:21.676 Beastie Boy, a Beastie Boy airplane representing this sort of 1:03:22.196 --> 1:03:24.596 crazy debauchery all made up. You know, none of this 1:03:24.676 --> 1:03:27.276 was true. We were kids, we were kids in school. 1:03:27.316 --> 1:03:30.156 You know, this was none of this was accurate. This 1:03:30.236 --> 1:03:35.596 was a fantasy based on loving, loving led Zeppelin. It 1:03:35.636 --> 1:03:39.076 was the fantasy of, well, what about a Beastie Boys 1:03:39.156 --> 1:03:44.476 jumbo jet that rams into a mountain like that? That's 1:03:44.516 --> 1:03:48.356 like the way the story ends is the it goes 1:03:48.356 --> 1:03:51.356 with this crazy rock and roll lifestyle. And I thought, well, 1:03:51.636 --> 1:03:54.236 because it would be a gatefold, it'd be like you'd 1:03:54.276 --> 1:03:56.116 see the front of it and you'd think it was 1:03:56.916 --> 1:03:58.956 you'd just think it was an airplane, and then you'd 1:03:58.956 --> 1:04:00.956 open it up and you'd get the reveal of the 1:04:00.996 --> 1:04:03.716 back and then yeah. And then when I would drive 1:04:03.796 --> 1:04:06.596 from my parents' house on Long Island into the city, 1:04:06.636 --> 1:04:12.436 I would always pass the globe um from the that's 1:04:12.436 --> 1:04:14.956 in the centerfold, and I was thought, oh, it'd be great, 1:04:14.996 --> 1:04:17.836 like someday that would be a great thing to use 1:04:17.876 --> 1:04:20.676 in a photograph. And then the opportunity was with the 1:04:20.676 --> 1:04:25.596 Beastie Boys in the inner sleeve. Has anyone ever you know, 1:04:25.636 --> 1:04:28.156 it's weird when I've seen it. I remember getting the 1:04:28.196 --> 1:04:31.996 album like Thanksgiving of eighty six, so I would like 1:04:32.036 --> 1:04:33.676 to think that I think the album came out in 1:04:33.716 --> 1:04:39.156 November of eighty six, like late November. Um, but this happened. 1:04:39.996 --> 1:04:43.716 The album cover occurred like nine months after the Space 1:04:43.756 --> 1:04:48.676 Settle Challenge thing. The challengers join the challenge like traumatize 1:04:48.716 --> 1:04:54.956 the shit out of me in kindergarten, yo, Yeah, and like, 1:04:55.236 --> 1:04:59.636 so to that album and see that crash, like just 1:04:59.716 --> 1:05:03.636 traumatize me even more. So it's weird, Like I have 1:05:03.756 --> 1:05:08.036 this love, this love relationship with with the album because 1:05:08.036 --> 1:05:12.156 it's so you know, monumental, but it's like, ah, the Knights. 1:05:12.196 --> 1:05:14.836 I just looked at that album cover like, ah, it's 1:05:14.916 --> 1:05:17.196 killing me. I didn't I didn't know about the crash, 1:05:17.316 --> 1:05:21.556 and it didn't I'll tell you now, And I knew 1:05:21.556 --> 1:05:23.236 it at the time, but I didn't know enough to 1:05:23.276 --> 1:05:26.316 be able to get it the way I really wanted it. 1:05:26.716 --> 1:05:29.476 But it never was the way I really wanted it, 1:05:29.476 --> 1:05:31.676 which was I wanted it to look more really like 1:05:31.716 --> 1:05:34.756 a photograph, and instead it looks more like a Mad 1:05:34.836 --> 1:05:38.956 magazine cover cartoon like it. It's more cartoony looking than 1:05:39.036 --> 1:05:40.956 I would have liked it to be. I would have 1:05:40.996 --> 1:05:46.476 liked it to be like photo realists. The artist that 1:05:46.556 --> 1:05:48.916 drew it, was he a friend of yours or no, no, 1:05:48.996 --> 1:05:52.276 he was a friend of um. The guy who was 1:05:52.356 --> 1:05:57.796 our art director at the label, Steve Byrom was his name, 1:05:58.276 --> 1:06:00.796 And I would just say, hey, this is the vision 1:06:00.836 --> 1:06:02.956 for the cover. How do we get this made? And 1:06:02.996 --> 1:06:06.436 then he had his friend he commissioned it. But which 1:06:06.516 --> 1:06:08.036 is why it didn't come out the way I wanted 1:06:08.076 --> 1:06:10.156 it to come out. You know, it's so you've seen it. 1:06:10.236 --> 1:06:14.276 We're disappointed. Yeah, I said, this isn't really It's like 1:06:14.316 --> 1:06:17.796 the image is right, but the way it was done 1:06:17.996 --> 1:06:20.436 was not right. It felt more like a cartoon. But 1:06:20.476 --> 1:06:22.796 it was like, well, you know, the album's coming out 1:06:22.836 --> 1:06:25.436 and we have no time. It's like okay. And and 1:06:25.516 --> 1:06:28.196 to eat meat that was not that was a creative 1:06:28.236 --> 1:06:31.076 like the eating that I didn't That was not my idea. 1:06:31.196 --> 1:06:33.796 But so what did you think about Eminem's arm? But 1:06:33.876 --> 1:06:37.076 then I forgot you produced that? You produced that? Did 1:06:37.156 --> 1:06:38.556 you talk him to do it or did he say 1:06:38.556 --> 1:06:41.996 I want to watch you one Eminem's album, Uh not 1:06:42.036 --> 1:06:43.596 abuse it to be murdered by It was the one 1:06:43.636 --> 1:06:49.196 before that one. It was the Recovery. That wasn't Recovery. 1:06:49.476 --> 1:06:52.956 It just came out like a year or two ago. Oh, 1:06:52.996 --> 1:06:56.276 I'm looking right, produce that? Wait? Which was you to 1:06:56.356 --> 1:06:58.236 my question, which is Rick, how do you pick your 1:06:58.236 --> 1:07:01.356 projects just based on liking him, like either liking the 1:07:01.436 --> 1:07:03.236 music or liking the artists one or the other. Like 1:07:03.316 --> 1:07:07.476 Kama Kazi, Sorry, Kamakazi, that was it? Yeah, it just 1:07:07.476 --> 1:07:11.156 didn't produce that. Oh I thought you produced the last 1:07:12.356 --> 1:07:17.916 Karmic Kazi. Yikes, Okay, I stand corrected. Well, tribute to 1:07:17.956 --> 1:07:22.076 you License to Ill so oh cool? Yeah, as as 1:07:22.076 --> 1:07:24.756 an album cover. Just on the back of Bill's question, Rick, 1:07:24.836 --> 1:07:27.396 how come you only did one? I've noticed you only 1:07:27.396 --> 1:07:30.076 did the Andrew Dice Clay album, like that was your 1:07:30.076 --> 1:07:33.116 only comedian that you work with? Well, we did. I 1:07:33.116 --> 1:07:35.556 think we did five five Andrew Dice Clay alum right, 1:07:36.196 --> 1:07:39.676 and I always looked for other comedians to work with 1:07:39.756 --> 1:07:43.236 but never found there was At one point I was 1:07:43.476 --> 1:07:47.476 interested in recording Carlos Mencia. I don't know, yeah, yeah, 1:07:48.796 --> 1:07:51.316 and I think we like started talking about it, maybe 1:07:51.356 --> 1:07:54.396 even recorded a little bit, but it just never never 1:07:54.516 --> 1:07:57.556 came together for whatever reason. Have you got any more 1:07:57.596 --> 1:08:02.116 requests though? I'm comedian wise, well, I loved Gerard. I 1:08:02.156 --> 1:08:05.596 think he's incredible. I've never thought about him doing an album, 1:08:05.596 --> 1:08:08.916 but that's a really interesting idea. Okay, he wants it. 1:08:09.116 --> 1:08:13.036 I'm sorry. How long did you have to bug public 1:08:13.036 --> 1:08:15.796 get him me until Chuck finally relented and signed to 1:08:15.836 --> 1:08:18.716 the label. It was a really long time. It was 1:08:18.756 --> 1:08:21.596 a long time. I want to say it felt like 1:08:21.716 --> 1:08:25.236 forever then, but it was probably nine months, maybe a year, 1:08:25.756 --> 1:08:28.156 but for at you know, when you're twenty years old, 1:08:28.156 --> 1:08:32.676 a year is forever. No, that's a long time. And 1:08:32.796 --> 1:08:36.276 they had to post it note of Chuck's number next 1:08:36.276 --> 1:08:38.796 to my phone, and anytime I would walk by the phone, 1:08:38.796 --> 1:08:42.116 i'd see it and I would call. And then Bill Stephanie, 1:08:42.116 --> 1:08:45.516 who was our first employee at def Jam, he knew Chuck, 1:08:45.836 --> 1:08:48.236 and at one point I got so frustrated, I said, 1:08:48.636 --> 1:08:51.316 you have to tell Chuck. If he doesn't sign to 1:08:51.396 --> 1:08:56.556 def JAM, I'm firing you. Like, you have to convince 1:08:56.636 --> 1:08:59.716 him he has to do this. And it's not like 1:08:59.756 --> 1:09:01.436 he wanted to sign to someone else. He didn't want 1:09:01.476 --> 1:09:03.716 to make records. That was the thing. It's like he 1:09:03.796 --> 1:09:06.796 was too old. He thought he was too old. How 1:09:06.796 --> 1:09:09.036 did you How did you feel about the Bomb squads 1:09:09.156 --> 1:09:13.156 production methods, because that's the total opposite of your reduction 1:09:13.916 --> 1:09:17.316 love Brooch loved it. I like I like different things, 1:09:17.396 --> 1:09:19.836 you know, I'm not. I like all kinds of different things. 1:09:20.516 --> 1:09:24.836 I actually heard something on your on your James Brown 1:09:25.996 --> 1:09:32.236 recent DJ set, right, maybe it was night two if 1:09:32.276 --> 1:09:35.596 I remember correctly, for the first time, I heard what 1:09:35.716 --> 1:09:38.556 I think was the inspiration for the Bomb Squad that 1:09:38.636 --> 1:09:42.396 I'd never heard before. Wow, I have to find I'll 1:09:42.436 --> 1:09:44.076 find it and send it to you, just so you 1:09:44.116 --> 1:09:47.156 have for your own reference. I think you pieced, you 1:09:47.236 --> 1:09:49.276 put the pieces of a puzzle together from me that 1:09:49.316 --> 1:09:55.236 I never knew were there. You know, during this period 1:09:55.396 --> 1:09:58.956 at least between eighty six and eighty nine, I mean 1:09:59.636 --> 1:10:02.796 between your work with LLL and I am curious as 1:10:02.836 --> 1:10:06.876 to why you did not produce bigger than ever. And 1:10:06.956 --> 1:10:08.836 I always wanted to know how you felt about like 1:10:09.156 --> 1:10:11.636 the La Posse and I Need Love and all that stuff. 1:10:12.316 --> 1:10:15.756 But you're doing these Slayer records and not to mention 1:10:15.876 --> 1:10:18.236 like I mean, your heart meant like, how what is 1:10:18.276 --> 1:10:22.196 your approach to Are you just leading from the gut 1:10:22.316 --> 1:10:25.356 or do you have like a mapped out plan that 1:10:25.396 --> 1:10:28.716 you're explaining to the group. This is the vision I 1:10:28.756 --> 1:10:30.556 have for you, Like, how do you work with Slayer? 1:10:31.116 --> 1:10:34.276 Just going into the studio and first going into pre 1:10:34.316 --> 1:10:37.596 production talking about the parts in the songs, helping make 1:10:37.636 --> 1:10:39.956 them as good as they could be, and then figuring 1:10:39.956 --> 1:10:43.716 out how to In their case, it was interesting because 1:10:44.436 --> 1:10:48.956 they already were popular, a popular underground band. Like the 1:10:49.076 --> 1:10:51.156 night I saw them, they sold out the Ritz, which 1:10:51.196 --> 1:10:54.996 is pretty substantial place. I saw them at the Ritz. 1:10:55.316 --> 1:10:58.076 Blew my mind. It's like, I like heavy music. I 1:10:58.156 --> 1:11:00.756 never heard of these guys before, and this was one 1:11:00.756 --> 1:11:03.796 of the craziest, heaviest concerts I've ever seen in my life. 1:11:03.796 --> 1:11:07.916 How is this? It's like a parallel universe that this exists. 1:11:08.756 --> 1:11:10.676 And um and I talked to them that night after 1:11:10.716 --> 1:11:12.836 the show and then ended up flying out and meeting 1:11:12.876 --> 1:11:16.676 him in California after that. Who was their drummer? Because 1:11:16.876 --> 1:11:20.636 I've never heard I've never heard someone play double kick 1:11:20.756 --> 1:11:26.996 that intense. Yeah, And you know, not not only is 1:11:26.996 --> 1:11:33.076 it intense, it's funky. That's the He's the only of 1:11:33.316 --> 1:11:35.796 all the heavy metal drummers I've ever heard who play 1:11:35.836 --> 1:11:39.596 in that double kick drum style. He's the only one 1:11:39.876 --> 1:11:47.236 where it's groovy maybe Lars who else thing though that's 1:11:47.276 --> 1:11:52.396 not what Lars does. Okay, that's not what Lar does groovy, 1:11:52.596 --> 1:11:55.316 Lars does something else. So Ar someone like a pro fast, 1:11:55.356 --> 1:11:58.116 prog rock drummer. So some kid at school puts me 1:11:58.156 --> 1:12:01.236 on you know, by the time I get Nation of Millions, 1:12:01.276 --> 1:12:04.756 some kid puts me onto Rain and Blood and then 1:12:05.156 --> 1:12:09.396 uh plays yeah, yeah she You know when I was 1:12:09.396 --> 1:12:11.716 listening to see and they're like, well, you know that's 1:12:11.756 --> 1:12:14.396 that's a Slayer song and playing the original join and 1:12:14.396 --> 1:12:17.356 then like I started buying the records just as a completest. 1:12:17.516 --> 1:12:20.916 But yeah, trying to play that ship because there was 1:12:20.916 --> 1:12:23.996 like a hard rock band that I joined, like in 1:12:24.076 --> 1:12:26.956 high school for like four months, but I quit because 1:12:27.076 --> 1:12:30.276 like I can't do double foot action that good. But 1:12:30.356 --> 1:12:34.476 it's like, how did you capture those performances? Like are 1:12:34.476 --> 1:12:37.436 there jam sessions? Are there? Like guys, here's a course, 1:12:38.036 --> 1:12:40.356 let's or is it just like okay, open to e 1:12:41.116 --> 1:12:44.436 open just boss the wall go no, no, no, no no. 1:12:44.516 --> 1:12:49.196 They wrote the songs. I came in. I said, maybe 1:12:49.196 --> 1:12:51.956 this part's too long, maybe this part's too short, maybe 1:12:51.956 --> 1:12:54.836 we need another part here. But very it's all them. 1:12:54.996 --> 1:12:59.636 It's all them and Slayer were unbelievable, and then it 1:12:59.676 --> 1:13:02.196 was just properly recording them in a way not to 1:13:02.196 --> 1:13:06.956 screw it up. And here was a big breakthrough. Sonic 1:13:06.996 --> 1:13:11.156 breakthrough in my mind, was the only records you could 1:13:11.196 --> 1:13:14.236 hear that were that approach that speed at that time 1:13:14.676 --> 1:13:17.556 would be like Metallica's first record. I think that's all 1:13:17.596 --> 1:13:21.916 that was out. I don't even think their second record. Yeah, 1:13:22.476 --> 1:13:27.796 but Metallica, those records were recorded like a traditional rock band, 1:13:29.076 --> 1:13:31.196 which again it like it goes back to the hip 1:13:31.276 --> 1:13:35.316 hop argument in the beginning. It's like nobody's looking at 1:13:35.356 --> 1:13:37.756 the thing for what it is, to make it the 1:13:37.796 --> 1:13:40.516 best version of what it is. People are looking at okay. Well, 1:13:40.916 --> 1:13:44.676 on rock records, we use big drum sounds with long 1:13:45.156 --> 1:13:50.516 with long um reverbs. Yeah, long sounds, and that's what 1:13:50.636 --> 1:13:53.476 makes them sound big. But if you're playing fast, and 1:13:53.516 --> 1:13:56.436 if you do that, it's just a blur. You don't 1:13:56.476 --> 1:14:02.116 hear anything, it's just out exactly, So I'm looking at okay, 1:14:02.116 --> 1:14:05.516 this band's incredible and they play tight and fast, And 1:14:05.556 --> 1:14:08.476 the key is how do we get it to sound 1:14:08.596 --> 1:14:14.596 like like you're listening to them with a magnifying glass, 1:14:15.356 --> 1:14:19.876 not how do you blend it together into an Impressionist painting. 1:14:21.876 --> 1:14:25.396 So in the case of Slayer, it was, okay, how 1:14:25.396 --> 1:14:29.236 do we make the drums sounds super tight, super tiny 1:14:30.116 --> 1:14:33.676 because the speed of the drums, the only way you're 1:14:33.676 --> 1:14:36.756 going to even be able to hear it is if 1:14:36.796 --> 1:14:43.876 they're basically taps, you know, like tiny little taps. So 1:14:43.916 --> 1:14:45.756 it really a lot of it has to do with 1:14:46.036 --> 1:14:50.516 in each of these cases of the things that I've 1:14:50.916 --> 1:14:52.716 on the records where I've worked on where they sound 1:14:52.716 --> 1:14:55.076 different than the records that came before them, it was 1:14:55.156 --> 1:14:58.396 only looking at them for what they are and figuring out, 1:14:58.396 --> 1:15:00.916 how do we make this thing sound good? Not how 1:15:00.916 --> 1:15:02.996 do we use the baggage of the past, how do 1:15:03.036 --> 1:15:06.436 we apply old methods to this? It's how do we 1:15:07.036 --> 1:15:10.036 what's right for what this is? So how do you 1:15:10.116 --> 1:15:16.156 know the difference between what to give a Slayer as 1:15:16.156 --> 1:15:18.836 opposed to like the word that you did with the 1:15:18.956 --> 1:15:22.596 call As far as rock sounds are concerned, Now I 1:15:22.676 --> 1:15:26.876 know you know, like how much research do you have 1:15:26.956 --> 1:15:30.636 to put into the acts that you work with to 1:15:30.676 --> 1:15:34.436 know what their strengths and their weaknesses are. I put 1:15:34.436 --> 1:15:38.596 no research in whatsoever. But the research that I do 1:15:38.716 --> 1:15:40.796 is as a fan all the time, listening to music 1:15:40.836 --> 1:15:44.356 all the time, and I listen and then based on 1:15:44.396 --> 1:15:50.196 what I'm hearing, I'll make suggestions just based on whatever 1:15:51.156 --> 1:15:53.956 whatever little bit that I've picked up from listening to 1:15:54.036 --> 1:15:57.156 music my whole life. We should probably be asking to 1:15:57.316 --> 1:15:59.276 LL this. But since you were there to help make 1:15:59.396 --> 1:16:05.716 the track, what exactly went between LL and Cool mood 1:16:06.556 --> 1:16:11.596 that made him make Jack the Ripper? I remember, Yeah, 1:16:11.636 --> 1:16:14.316 I don't know that anything happened. I think it might 1:16:14.356 --> 1:16:17.356 have just been that. I mean, did you realize that 1:16:17.396 --> 1:16:21.556 you were making a Cool Moody disk record? Nope, and 1:16:21.836 --> 1:16:24.836 one of the first disk records. I never thought about 1:16:24.836 --> 1:16:28.036 it because that was your boyfriend in the day. Yeah, 1:16:28.076 --> 1:16:32.476 I loved him. You you also thought about it that 1:16:32.516 --> 1:16:35.076 way at all. And it kind of goes back to 1:16:35.116 --> 1:16:37.036 your go Go love too, because it was the Chuck 1:16:37.076 --> 1:16:41.196 Brown temple that it's also the temple Yeah yeah, oh yeah, 1:16:41.196 --> 1:16:45.996 I forgot. I forgot that. Athley's road clip is Yeah, 1:16:46.196 --> 1:16:51.996 it's not just the paintingful break Yeah, how how what 1:16:52.156 --> 1:17:00.436 was your experience like shooting Tougher Than Leather? Terrible experience directed? Okay, 1:17:00.476 --> 1:17:06.516 I'm a first time director. What what what can you what? What? 1:17:06.516 --> 1:17:08.676 What advice can you give me? I mean, sorry, my 1:17:08.796 --> 1:17:11.196 movie he's already done, so okay. I was going to say, 1:17:11.236 --> 1:17:15.316 if you have an opportunity not to do it, don't leave. Okay, 1:17:15.316 --> 1:17:21.156 So tell me about your experience in directing Tougher Than Leather. Well, 1:17:21.196 --> 1:17:22.836 where I didn't know what I was doing. In the 1:17:22.916 --> 1:17:26.076 recording studio, it was easy because there were so few 1:17:26.116 --> 1:17:30.676 people there and mistakes were low. And on a movie 1:17:30.716 --> 1:17:37.676 set there are many more people and the schedule is like, hey, 1:17:37.676 --> 1:17:39.636 I'm going to be an hour late to the studio today. 1:17:39.716 --> 1:17:42.396 Talk to you, talk to you guys later. No problem, 1:17:43.116 --> 1:17:48.116 movie sets not like that. It's like everything was and yeah, 1:17:48.156 --> 1:17:51.916 and we were our whole lives were you know. I 1:17:51.956 --> 1:17:54.516 slept until I never took a class before three in 1:17:54.556 --> 1:17:56.676 the afternoon when I went to NYU, because I slept 1:17:56.756 --> 1:18:00.676 until probably one, and then we went out all night 1:18:00.756 --> 1:18:03.636 every night. So the idea of showing up on a 1:18:03.716 --> 1:18:06.396 movie set at six o'clock in the morning every day, 1:18:07.196 --> 1:18:10.636 that wasn't anything that I anticipated, and that was not 1:18:10.836 --> 1:18:17.476 a it was not a realistic ask in the way 1:18:17.476 --> 1:18:20.196 my life worked. So it was a terrible experience and 1:18:21.036 --> 1:18:23.516 I wouldn't wish it, wouldn't wish it on my enemy. 1:18:23.836 --> 1:18:27.076 Did you insist on directing that movie or was it 1:18:27.116 --> 1:18:30.636 like you had an upcoming april or to do it 1:18:30.716 --> 1:18:34.996 or something like? How did you wind up holding the 1:18:34.996 --> 1:18:39.796 director's manual? Me and my friend Rick wrote the idea. 1:18:39.836 --> 1:18:42.316 It was Rick was really more the writer than I. 1:18:42.636 --> 1:18:44.796 We would throw ideas together, but Rick was the main writer. 1:18:44.916 --> 1:18:47.916 Rick Minello and who was the guy who ran the 1:18:47.996 --> 1:18:51.556 desk at my dorm, so he'd be the night He 1:18:51.596 --> 1:18:54.996 would work at the dorm from midnight to six. He 1:18:55.116 --> 1:18:58.276 was the night watchman essentially, and the dorm was pretty 1:18:58.356 --> 1:19:00.716 quiet from midnight to six, so I would usually get 1:19:00.716 --> 1:19:03.156 home from the club two three and I would sit 1:19:03.196 --> 1:19:05.396 there with Rick and we would order food from cozy 1:19:05.436 --> 1:19:09.596 Superenberger around the corner and watch old movies on TV. 1:19:10.356 --> 1:19:13.396 And he was a film major and film historian new 1:19:13.436 --> 1:19:16.996 tremendous amount and then in later years ended up, you know, 1:19:17.076 --> 1:19:23.916 working with Darren Aronovski and James Gray. James Gray some 1:19:24.036 --> 1:19:26.676 great directors, and all of my friends who were directors 1:19:26.676 --> 1:19:30.356 would always anytime anyone I knew who made movies had 1:19:30.436 --> 1:19:33.796 a movie question, they would all call Rick Manello because 1:19:33.796 --> 1:19:37.716 he knew more than everybody that Rick Mannello was the 1:19:37.796 --> 1:19:40.596 main scriptwriter. He's in it too. I can't remember what 1:19:40.676 --> 1:19:44.356 his character. He was played, sort of the sidekick guy 1:19:44.396 --> 1:19:48.876 to my guy. I can't remember his character's name. I 1:19:48.916 --> 1:19:52.476 can't remember. I really blocked out a lot about that movie. Actually, 1:19:53.596 --> 1:19:58.316 he was also in the Beastie Boys video for No 1:19:58.436 --> 1:20:01.596 Sleep Till Brooklyn. He was like the club, you know 1:20:01.636 --> 1:20:04.796 in the beginning, there's like a skit with a that's 1:20:04.876 --> 1:20:08.636 Rick Mannello. So he's been in a few depths him 1:20:10.236 --> 1:20:13.236 products or Yes. And he directed Going Back to Kelly 1:20:13.676 --> 1:20:17.436 as well. Oh the video of Going Back to Kelly, 1:20:18.076 --> 1:20:21.636 which we story boarded together at the desk at Weinstein 1:20:21.676 --> 1:20:27.476 the dormitory at NYU. Okay, So something I don't know. 1:20:27.756 --> 1:20:30.676 I don't know if you ever went on record. I 1:20:30.876 --> 1:20:34.796 never knew how or why you left Deaf Jam. I 1:20:34.956 --> 1:20:39.036 just remember your name being on the executive producer for 1:20:39.156 --> 1:20:42.676 Nation of Millions, and then when I looked for your 1:20:42.756 --> 1:20:45.596 name on Fear of a black planet. You weren't there anymore. 1:20:46.236 --> 1:20:48.316 And then I next I heard of you. You had 1:20:48.356 --> 1:20:55.276 a funeral for the word death. So what I mean, 1:20:55.396 --> 1:20:58.916 why did you decide to leave the your your your 1:20:58.916 --> 1:21:02.276 first love? It really had to There were two things 1:21:02.316 --> 1:21:07.356 going on. One was over the time together. However many years, 1:21:07.356 --> 1:21:10.156 it was three, four or five years, my relationship with 1:21:10.236 --> 1:21:14.316 Russell was starting to I wouldn't say it ever turned bad, 1:21:14.356 --> 1:21:16.716 because we were always good friends, but it felt like 1:21:16.796 --> 1:21:23.036 our what we wanted was changing. And I felt like 1:21:23.116 --> 1:21:26.276 I really loved our friendship and didn't want our friendship 1:21:26.316 --> 1:21:29.676 to end. And I thought, if we remained partners, our 1:21:29.716 --> 1:21:33.356 friendships probably going to end. So maybe it's better just 1:21:33.476 --> 1:21:35.916 not to be partners anymore. And then there was something 1:21:35.996 --> 1:21:38.956 going on that really triggered. It had to do with 1:21:39.316 --> 1:21:43.116 the way we were being treated by Columbia and what 1:21:43.156 --> 1:21:45.876 we needed Columbia to do to fix the situation for 1:21:45.916 --> 1:21:49.756 our artists. For example, I remember the first time we 1:21:49.756 --> 1:21:55.516 went to England and the guy at Columbia basically told us, 1:21:55.996 --> 1:21:58.436 you know, we're just we're not interested in your records 1:21:58.556 --> 1:22:02.796 that they said. They said, we look at Columbia records 1:22:02.796 --> 1:22:05.956 in New York as an albatross. And it's nothing against 1:22:05.996 --> 1:22:08.356 you personally, but because you come from them, we're just 1:22:08.436 --> 1:22:14.636 not really interested even though you're making that money. Yeah, 1:22:14.756 --> 1:22:18.196 I'm in eighty seven. You guys are so more units 1:22:18.196 --> 1:22:23.396 than Michael Jackson's bed. Yeah, And it was unbelievable. I 1:22:24.156 --> 1:22:25.836 had a meeting with al Teller at the time, who 1:22:25.876 --> 1:22:28.796 was the president of the company, and told him all 1:22:28.796 --> 1:22:31.356 of my concerns and I talked for a half hour 1:22:31.356 --> 1:22:33.956 and I got really emotional. I started crying because again 1:22:34.196 --> 1:22:37.076 I care so much about this shit, It's my whole life. 1:22:37.436 --> 1:22:40.836 And at the end of the conversation, I say, you know, 1:22:40.876 --> 1:22:42.516 we gotta we have to figure out a way to 1:22:42.556 --> 1:22:46.516 fix this, because if not, I have to leave. Like 1:22:46.596 --> 1:22:49.116 I can't. I can't keep doing this. I can't put 1:22:49.116 --> 1:22:52.476 my heart into this and have partners who don't care 1:22:52.756 --> 1:22:55.716 or who are not going as hard as they can 1:22:56.116 --> 1:22:59.076 as hard as we're going. I can't do this. And um, 1:22:59.276 --> 1:23:01.476 and this is after a half hour of my I 1:23:01.596 --> 1:23:03.916 remember I had a pad and I listed all the 1:23:03.956 --> 1:23:08.476 things that were wrong in the relationship. Whatever if I 1:23:08.476 --> 1:23:11.396 would have known that they put the wrong a side 1:23:11.516 --> 1:23:14.476 on the record, that that's an example they've been on 1:23:14.516 --> 1:23:17.236 the list. Yeah, it's like but that was indicative of 1:23:17.236 --> 1:23:19.556 what it was like. It was like nobody really cared. 1:23:19.596 --> 1:23:22.636 These guys do this shit that we don't understand and 1:23:23.196 --> 1:23:25.476 luckily itselves, but we don't know what it is and 1:23:25.596 --> 1:23:27.436 we don't really care what it is. We just don't 1:23:27.436 --> 1:23:32.476 want it to stop. Um. But they always one with 1:23:32.716 --> 1:23:38.476 yet nikof or one on one with Ideas or Matola, 1:23:38.716 --> 1:23:42.676 none of those guys. Einer wasn't there, Matola wasn't there yet. 1:23:42.876 --> 1:23:45.676 It was so the guy al Teller was the president 1:23:45.716 --> 1:23:49.156 of the company. Matola was his boss, but he wasn't 1:23:49.196 --> 1:23:51.636 really involved in what the day to day of Columbia record. 1:23:51.716 --> 1:23:53.396 So I had this meeting with the guy the right 1:23:53.436 --> 1:23:55.956 person to have a meeting with. I have this meeting. 1:23:56.036 --> 1:24:00.996 I'm have a heartfelt emotional He's sitting there holding a 1:24:01.036 --> 1:24:06.116 baseball bat through the meeting because yeah, he saw himself 1:24:06.156 --> 1:24:08.436 as kind of like tough. So he's sitting there holding 1:24:08.436 --> 1:24:11.156 this baseball bat. I'm talking twenty minutes, twenty five minutes. 1:24:11.476 --> 1:24:15.036 I'm crying at the end and telling them finally that 1:24:15.116 --> 1:24:16.876 if we can't work this stuff out, we can't get 1:24:16.916 --> 1:24:18.236 to the bottom of this. I got to leave, and 1:24:18.316 --> 1:24:20.676 I said, you know, I never signed a contract. Russell 1:24:20.716 --> 1:24:23.076 signed the contract. I never signed anything, so and I 1:24:23.116 --> 1:24:26.076 have to leave. And he said, wait, wait a minute, 1:24:26.076 --> 1:24:29.036 wait a minute, what did you just say. And I said, 1:24:29.756 --> 1:24:32.996 I said, yeah, I said I never signed a contract, 1:24:33.956 --> 1:24:36.636 you know, only Russell signed. And he said, okay, wait 1:24:36.636 --> 1:24:38.556 a minute. You're gonna have to start back at the 1:24:38.596 --> 1:24:42.876 beginning because I wasn't listening to anything. You were saying, oh, 1:24:43.076 --> 1:24:47.036 we're at my sound effect with me. This is this 1:24:47.116 --> 1:24:52.796 is really, this is real. So how long until death 1:24:52.836 --> 1:24:56.996 American is started right away? Because when I left def Jam, 1:24:57.036 --> 1:25:01.116 I had already started, like Slayer was signed to death 1:25:01.196 --> 1:25:07.436 Jam originally, Danzig was signed to deaf Jam originally, and Dice. 1:25:07.716 --> 1:25:10.196 I can't remember if Dice was if I had already 1:25:10.196 --> 1:25:13.436 signed Ice or not. When I remember going out to 1:25:13.516 --> 1:25:15.356 lunch with Russell and saying, you know, this isn't going 1:25:15.396 --> 1:25:17.716 to work. I don't the relationship with Columbia is bad. 1:25:18.436 --> 1:25:22.516 And oh, so what that meeting that I told you about, 1:25:22.556 --> 1:25:27.036 the start at the beginning again meeting? When that meeting, 1:25:27.956 --> 1:25:31.556 after that meeting, I told Russell, you know this is 1:25:31.596 --> 1:25:34.756 not good. We can't do this anymore. And the way 1:25:34.796 --> 1:25:37.876 that Columbia ended up fixing it was to write a 1:25:37.876 --> 1:25:40.796 big check to death Jam without dealing with any of 1:25:40.796 --> 1:25:45.516 the problems. It was just a check and Russell was 1:25:45.556 --> 1:25:47.156 cool with that, and I was not cool with that. 1:25:47.396 --> 1:25:49.996 So that was sort of the you know what, I 1:25:49.996 --> 1:25:51.956 don't think we can do this anymore, Like this doesn't 1:25:51.956 --> 1:25:54.116 feel right. And I said to him, I said, do 1:25:54.156 --> 1:25:56.476 you want to leave the company? And he said I 1:25:56.516 --> 1:25:58.236 don't want to leave. And I said, okay, I guess 1:25:58.236 --> 1:26:00.756 I have to leave. And it was just like that. 1:26:01.396 --> 1:26:07.476 It wasn't even I thought, yeah, yikes, because you left 1:26:07.516 --> 1:26:14.156 before well you left the beasties left, correct let Yeah, yeah, 1:26:14.156 --> 1:26:17.596 how did um did you and um like uh at 1:26:17.716 --> 1:26:20.676 Rock or any of them? Did y'all have conversations about 1:26:20.716 --> 1:26:25.716 why you both left? Or interestingly interestingly, we have never 1:26:25.756 --> 1:26:29.356 really discussed it. And it's definitely an elephant in the 1:26:29.436 --> 1:26:31.716 room that would be good to discuss, and we just 1:26:31.756 --> 1:26:34.756 never did. But I'm sure it'll happen. It may happen 1:26:35.076 --> 1:26:38.916 next week, like it'll happen. What were your thoughts on 1:26:38.956 --> 1:26:42.276 Paul's boutique? Loved it, thought it was the I remember 1:26:42.316 --> 1:26:45.036 listening to it at the Mandrean Hotel, me and Chuck 1:26:45.116 --> 1:26:47.836 d together. We were We were there because I think 1:26:47.876 --> 1:26:50.556 Public Enemy was gonna appear somewhere in California. I don't 1:26:50.556 --> 1:26:53.076 know whether it was a club date or a TV show, 1:26:53.796 --> 1:26:56.956 but we're at the Mandrean. We got an advance. I 1:26:56.956 --> 1:26:58.476 don't even know if it was an advance. It might 1:26:58.516 --> 1:27:00.436 have just been like from the studio, like they had 1:27:00.476 --> 1:27:03.356 just finished it and me and Chuck listened to it 1:27:03.396 --> 1:27:05.636 and we both thought, oh my god, this is the 1:27:05.676 --> 1:27:07.676 greatest thing we've ever heard. This is the future hip 1:27:07.716 --> 1:27:10.516 hop like this is. It doesn't get better than this, 1:27:10.836 --> 1:27:14.476 and we were shocked that it was not as well 1:27:14.476 --> 1:27:17.596 received as we thought it deserved to be. The thing 1:27:17.636 --> 1:27:20.116 that I remembered the most, at least your first year 1:27:20.276 --> 1:27:23.796 of Death American was all the press that you got 1:27:23.836 --> 1:27:27.556 as far as the Ghetto boys were concerned. How did 1:27:27.556 --> 1:27:32.636 they come, how did they come across your radar? And 1:27:33.436 --> 1:27:36.876 what was it about them that drew you to them? 1:27:36.956 --> 1:27:43.836 And all the ensuing controversy that came with them, Like, yeah, 1:27:43.876 --> 1:27:48.996 I had never heard like NWA was already happening. Well, 1:27:49.036 --> 1:27:51.316 maybe just the Easy E album. I don't know if 1:27:51.316 --> 1:27:53.316 there was an NWA album. Yet there was an Easy 1:27:53.316 --> 1:27:57.156 E album for sure, and I loved easy And then 1:27:57.196 --> 1:28:01.716 I heard the Ghetto Boys and I felt like, oh, 1:28:01.716 --> 1:28:08.396 like where NWA was gangster, this is like hard in 1:28:08.436 --> 1:28:14.236 that way, but more like more unhinged, more like um 1:28:14.396 --> 1:28:19.356 horror m like like violent but not violent like a 1:28:19.436 --> 1:28:23.876 bad drug deal gone wrong, like violent like a horror movie, 1:28:24.036 --> 1:28:28.836 you know, like dismemberment, crazy and um. And I just 1:28:28.996 --> 1:28:32.636 liked the how extreme it was. It spoke to me 1:28:32.756 --> 1:28:35.996 right away, and I thought that the album UM didn't 1:28:36.076 --> 1:28:39.116 sound it didn't sound as good as it could have. 1:28:39.636 --> 1:28:42.476 So I remixed the album. I didn't add anything to 1:28:42.556 --> 1:28:46.036 it or I just basically remixed the album and change 1:28:46.076 --> 1:28:48.956 the cover and change the name because they were called 1:28:48.956 --> 1:28:53.436 the Ghetto Boys g H yeah, and I thought, you know, 1:28:53.676 --> 1:28:57.796 it sounds too ordinary, like they could be the Ghetto Boys, 1:28:57.796 --> 1:29:01.156 but should be the Geto Boys just because it I 1:29:01.156 --> 1:29:04.156 don't know, I just thought it was more interesting. I 1:29:04.196 --> 1:29:07.156 would look better on T shirts as well. Okay, so 1:29:07.276 --> 1:29:13.836 how how much of I mean now? It's like, especially 1:29:13.916 --> 1:29:17.956 in the environment that we're in right now, as far 1:29:17.996 --> 1:29:25.756 as like uh, right wing Republican Christian news talking points 1:29:25.756 --> 1:29:27.756 in those things like you know now it's sort of 1:29:27.796 --> 1:29:31.436 like you collectively roll your eyes or that you know, 1:29:31.596 --> 1:29:36.476 like that side of the fences lying. But back in 1:29:36.796 --> 1:29:41.556 nineteen eighty nine, ninety like they it just seemed like 1:29:41.676 --> 1:29:45.636 royal threats. And I remember I knew the Ghetto Boys 1:29:45.636 --> 1:29:49.796 because one Chuck Chuck D's shadowed them out, or fear 1:29:49.796 --> 1:29:54.796 of a Black Panic Planet album. But all the controversy 1:29:55.076 --> 1:30:02.556 of scarfaces lyrics being talking points for everybody running for Senate, 1:30:02.556 --> 1:30:07.156 any Republican running for Senate or the House using this 1:30:07.316 --> 1:30:10.316 thing like to this was this manner from heaven like 1:30:10.436 --> 1:30:13.476 for you is I had min diversity and bad news, 1:30:13.596 --> 1:30:16.396 like yes, this is what I want to be your 1:30:16.396 --> 1:30:18.836 parents worst nightmare. This is the first time I'm ever 1:30:18.876 --> 1:30:23.996 hearing of that being the case. What you read Ted White? 1:30:24.356 --> 1:30:27.476 Ted White, I think who ran billboard? Oh man, he 1:30:27.636 --> 1:30:31.956 wrote like paragraphs and dissertation of Mind of a Luna. 1:30:32.236 --> 1:30:34.716 I would have never ever like the sure fireway to 1:30:34.836 --> 1:30:38.676 get a seventeen eighteen year old to buy the ship. 1:30:38.796 --> 1:30:42.196 It's because Ted White could not a billboard, could not 1:30:42.356 --> 1:30:47.396 stop writing about how violent Scarface's Mind of a Lunatic 1:30:47.596 --> 1:30:50.876 was and this needs to be banned and shit. I 1:30:50.916 --> 1:30:54.476 was like, word, I'm about this shit. Yeah, Clay parents 1:30:54.516 --> 1:30:57.556 hated it must be good. Yeah. I always like crazy shit, 1:30:57.716 --> 1:31:03.196 you know, I like edgy crazy shit. It's it's interesting 1:31:03.196 --> 1:31:06.596 to me. It's fun. I mean, but you do realize, 1:31:06.676 --> 1:31:12.956 like being parents were nightmare is also like that's great marketing. 1:31:13.236 --> 1:31:17.716 That's a regged exact candy. Like that's that's so that 1:31:17.876 --> 1:31:21.036 never excited you at all. No, I never never thought 1:31:21.076 --> 1:31:24.796 about it because usually I would have to get the 1:31:24.836 --> 1:31:26.996 calls more like the record company not wanting to put 1:31:26.996 --> 1:31:28.556 it out, you know. That's what I had to deal with, 1:31:28.636 --> 1:31:32.596 Like Slayer, Columbia Records refused to put out that Slayer record, 1:31:32.636 --> 1:31:34.556 So then I had to find a new way to 1:31:34.596 --> 1:31:37.036 release it, even though the first one was on def Jam, 1:31:37.076 --> 1:31:39.956 but it wasn't through Columbia because they refused to release it. 1:31:40.636 --> 1:31:43.436 Then I made a deal with Geffen Records, which is 1:31:43.436 --> 1:31:46.396 where that went. And then in my deal with Geffen, 1:31:46.516 --> 1:31:49.156 I had to have complete creative control where they could 1:31:49.196 --> 1:31:51.276 never come to me and say they're not going to 1:31:51.356 --> 1:31:54.836 put something out. And then when it came to Andrew Dice, 1:31:54.916 --> 1:31:57.036 Clay or the Ghetto Boys, they're like, well, we're not 1:31:57.076 --> 1:31:59.076 going to put it out. It's like, well, the whole 1:31:59.076 --> 1:32:01.676 reason I'm at your company is because I need a 1:32:01.676 --> 1:32:04.116 safe place to put out crazy shit. So why I'm here. 1:32:04.556 --> 1:32:08.436 This is what I do. And you'll see when you 1:32:08.436 --> 1:32:12.116 look back on it in time, it'll be the right decision. 1:32:12.356 --> 1:32:16.156 It'll be like you're too you're too close to the 1:32:16.236 --> 1:32:20.276 story now. But if you look back in history, important 1:32:20.276 --> 1:32:24.476 things often stick out like soft thumbs in their day 1:32:24.636 --> 1:32:30.476 and are hated or vilified. Or they burned Beatles albums. 1:32:30.556 --> 1:32:34.196 You know, yeah, man, Elvis was the you know, the devil. 1:32:34.996 --> 1:32:38.356 What was it about the Black Crows that excited you 1:32:38.516 --> 1:32:40.676 to sign them to the label? Did you sign all 1:32:40.716 --> 1:32:42.676 the acts that were at least on the first run 1:32:42.756 --> 1:32:45.516 of Death American to the label? Or was it like 1:32:45.596 --> 1:32:48.436 did you have a full staff? And you know I didn't. 1:32:48.516 --> 1:32:50.276 I didn't have a full staff. But there was my 1:32:50.356 --> 1:32:52.636 friend who I went to school with named George Treculius. 1:32:52.916 --> 1:32:57.076 Who Culius, who's been called out on a Beast record 1:32:57.076 --> 1:33:00.116 maybe well he's also been my boss the few movies 1:33:00.156 --> 1:33:04.156 that I scored. George. If you're clearing music in movies, 1:33:04.556 --> 1:33:08.196 George Culiac, is that that's your guy that you work with? Okay, great, 1:33:08.396 --> 1:33:14.076 So George was, Um, he was an inter. It's funny. 1:33:14.316 --> 1:33:17.316 I was an intern at Death Jam when I owned 1:33:17.356 --> 1:33:20.516 Deaf Jam at NYU. And the reason I was an 1:33:20.556 --> 1:33:23.396 intern was because then I got school credit for working 1:33:23.396 --> 1:33:29.836 at Deaf Jam. George was. George was my intern at 1:33:29.916 --> 1:33:33.836 Deaf Jam where he got credit in the dorm, and 1:33:33.836 --> 1:33:35.676 then there was a time when he was my roommate 1:33:35.756 --> 1:33:40.596 in the dorm, if I remember correctly. Um and George, 1:33:41.236 --> 1:33:44.876 he found the Black Crows and that was his both 1:33:44.916 --> 1:33:47.716 his signing and his production. That was his vision, and 1:33:47.796 --> 1:33:50.996 the Jayhawks as well. He signed the Jayhawks and never 1:33:51.116 --> 1:33:55.676 told me that. Wow, I didn't know. Ye Hey, wait 1:33:55.956 --> 1:33:58.716 all these old Deaf Jam questions are coming back to 1:33:58.756 --> 1:34:06.556 me now. Um. The storyline to Crust Groove, Um, how 1:34:06.636 --> 1:34:10.556 much of that was actual life? I'm trying to get 1:34:10.596 --> 1:34:15.996 to be kind of uncut. Gim's robbing Peter to pay Paul, 1:34:16.476 --> 1:34:20.476 narrative of like did you guys ever have Like that's 1:34:20.556 --> 1:34:24.116 the storyline of having to borrow money to press up 1:34:24.476 --> 1:34:27.876 twelve inches or to keep up with demand. That's Hollywood, 1:34:28.076 --> 1:34:33.116 Hollywood fickery. That's none of that, Okay, just checking, just 1:34:33.196 --> 1:34:38.876 check it. Yeah, um, so outside of Deaf American recordings, 1:34:39.196 --> 1:34:42.636 can you talk about your your your work with with 1:34:42.716 --> 1:34:47.596 Johnny Cash and how you got him back to his 1:34:47.676 --> 1:34:51.076 glory point, because I mean, I would imagine before you 1:34:51.116 --> 1:34:56.276 two worked together he was sort of waning in the 1:34:56.316 --> 1:34:59.396 creative department at least, like with the last four records 1:34:59.396 --> 1:35:02.036 that he worked on with you, that was like probably 1:35:02.076 --> 1:35:06.516 one of the best storied comebacks in a music career. 1:35:06.556 --> 1:35:13.836 What was it like working with him? Coolest thing, coolest 1:35:13.876 --> 1:35:19.996 thing that ever happened in my life. He was a beautiful, brilliant, humble, interesting, 1:35:20.396 --> 1:35:26.156 quiet guy who studied history off. He had a tremendous 1:35:26.156 --> 1:35:30.836 amount of wisdom that he didn't offer unless you drew 1:35:30.916 --> 1:35:34.276 him out, because he was pretty reserved. But if you 1:35:34.956 --> 1:35:36.916 if you asked him about stuff, he would tell you 1:35:36.916 --> 1:35:38.516 about it. And he knew a lot about a lot 1:35:38.556 --> 1:35:41.716 of things, and a tremendous amount about music and the 1:35:42.076 --> 1:35:46.516 history of country music and folk music. And I learned 1:35:46.516 --> 1:35:49.596 a tremendous amount being around him. Did you get a 1:35:49.716 --> 1:35:52.316 chance to personally know him? Like what was he telling 1:35:52.316 --> 1:35:57.116 you stories of recording for Son and that whole million 1:35:57.156 --> 1:35:59.716 dollars session thing and everything you ever wanted to know, 1:35:59.796 --> 1:36:04.756 and he would I got to know him personally well. 1:36:04.796 --> 1:36:06.236 He would stay at my house when he came to 1:36:06.356 --> 1:36:07.796 LA I would say at his house if I went 1:36:07.836 --> 1:36:12.276 to Nashville. Um, I don't know how much we talked 1:36:12.276 --> 1:36:15.196 about old times unless there was a specific reason to 1:36:15.236 --> 1:36:18.396 her if I had a particular interest. He would tell 1:36:18.476 --> 1:36:23.556 me stories about about Sam Phillips, though okay, he loved 1:36:23.596 --> 1:36:26.996 Sam Phillips. Which artist opens up to you the most 1:36:27.076 --> 1:36:30.556 as far as uh, I don't know if you have 1:36:30.756 --> 1:36:35.516 the same relationship would say a Jay Z that you 1:36:35.636 --> 1:36:39.756 would with Anthony Keatis. So I know there's different degrees 1:36:39.796 --> 1:36:43.076 of getting to know your clients as you're producing them. 1:36:43.156 --> 1:36:45.956 And I know there's an an artist producer trust that 1:36:46.036 --> 1:36:48.476 has to be established, but I know there's different degrees 1:36:48.476 --> 1:36:53.036 of that of like which artists I mean, And this 1:36:53.116 --> 1:36:55.196 is not asking what's your favorite artists you ever worked with, 1:36:55.396 --> 1:37:01.516 but who's who's the closest, Who do you know the 1:37:01.556 --> 1:37:04.796 best that you feel that you're just actual friends with, 1:37:04.956 --> 1:37:08.756 like really friends? Is that the Mars Bold guys is it? 1:37:09.116 --> 1:37:11.596 And I feel like I'm friends with a lot a 1:37:11.676 --> 1:37:14.396 lot of them. I'm just thinking if there are any 1:37:14.516 --> 1:37:18.516 unique standouts I would say the people who I've made 1:37:18.676 --> 1:37:23.636 the most albums with. That plays a role, just because 1:37:23.636 --> 1:37:29.516 you're around them more. You know, it's just more hours together. Yeah. So, like, 1:37:29.516 --> 1:37:32.276 I've been around the Chili Peppers a lot, so I 1:37:32.556 --> 1:37:36.316 probably know them better than somebody who I did, you 1:37:36.356 --> 1:37:38.476 know a couple of songs with like jay Z. But 1:37:38.516 --> 1:37:41.276 I feel very comfortable when I hang out with jay Z. 1:37:41.316 --> 1:37:44.716 I feel like pretty good friends. Feels good. I mean 1:37:45.556 --> 1:37:49.036 Andrew Dice Clay though I'm just saying I was. I 1:37:49.076 --> 1:37:51.156 was pretty close with Dice. I would go out every 1:37:51.236 --> 1:37:54.836 night to the Comedy Store after my session and we 1:37:54.876 --> 1:37:57.436 would hang out in the kitchen of the comedy stoor. 1:37:57.556 --> 1:38:00.876 Chris Rock would be there often also, I mean with 1:38:00.876 --> 1:38:04.036 with the Chili Peppers, how do you how do you 1:38:04.076 --> 1:38:09.956 see their growth as from where they were in nineteen 1:38:11.076 --> 1:38:15.756 ninety one. I'd assume that Blood Sugar, Sex Magic was 1:38:15.796 --> 1:38:17.796 the first time you work with them. You didn't do 1:38:17.876 --> 1:38:21.676 Mother's Milk? Correct? No, No, Although I like I thought 1:38:21.756 --> 1:38:25.556 Mother's Milk was their best record to date. That was 1:38:25.636 --> 1:38:28.796 the Mother's Milk was the record that made me excited 1:38:28.836 --> 1:38:32.956 to work with them. Okay, so how is it working 1:38:32.996 --> 1:38:37.956 with them? And managing their you know whatever, you have 1:38:38.076 --> 1:38:43.116 to juggle to make it right, as opposed to once 1:38:43.196 --> 1:38:46.516 they became more like a comfortable shoe that you were 1:38:46.516 --> 1:38:51.076 familiar with. I'll say, I think it's the same. I 1:38:51.156 --> 1:38:55.196 don't think um. I think the goal is always to 1:38:55.276 --> 1:39:02.116 treat people respectfully and honestly, and that happens regardless of 1:39:02.156 --> 1:39:04.636 how deep the relationship is. I don't. I don't think 1:39:04.676 --> 1:39:07.756 that changes. It's pretty much the thing we're there to 1:39:07.876 --> 1:39:12.636 do looks the same either way. The only other thing 1:39:12.636 --> 1:39:14.396 that I'll say, with the artists who I've made many 1:39:14.436 --> 1:39:16.276 records with another like system of a Down, I made 1:39:16.276 --> 1:39:20.636 all of their albums. With the bands that that I've 1:39:20.636 --> 1:39:24.796 worked with several times, there there gets to be a 1:39:24.876 --> 1:39:29.036 shorthand or like usually the first record we make together, same, Tom, Petty, 1:39:29.316 --> 1:39:31.676 all all of them. The first record we make together 1:39:31.756 --> 1:39:35.636 takes the longest because we're like filling each other out, Yeah, 1:39:35.716 --> 1:39:38.876 like figuring out a vocabulary of how we're gonna do it. 1:39:39.916 --> 1:39:44.036 But once that's established, it's much easier after that, but 1:39:44.156 --> 1:39:48.196 only only out of just that decoding, you know, decoding 1:39:48.236 --> 1:39:53.276 the system. Do you prefer piecemeal projects as far as 1:39:54.516 --> 1:39:57.516 getting uh, you know, they just say, look, I just 1:39:57.556 --> 1:40:00.476 want one song like you did one song on Justin 1:40:00.516 --> 1:40:07.036 Timberlakes record for Future Sex Sounds. Damn that sounds sex 1:40:07.116 --> 1:40:11.356 Love Sounds, Future Sex Magic Sounds. I don't know. As 1:40:11.396 --> 1:40:15.956 opposed to doing an entire album, what would you what 1:40:16.036 --> 1:40:19.836 do you prefer? I really like making albums. I don't 1:40:19.876 --> 1:40:24.196 like doing songs because I think that the nature of 1:40:24.236 --> 1:40:28.916 the process to get to an album, to get to 1:40:29.116 --> 1:40:32.636 one song, or to get to an album could be 1:40:32.676 --> 1:40:38.676 the same amount of experimentation. Do you know what I'm saying? 1:40:38.716 --> 1:40:43.916 Like to to find the voice. If you're working on 1:40:43.916 --> 1:40:46.716 one song, it takes just as long to figure out 1:40:46.796 --> 1:40:51.276 what that is. It may be longer because in a way, 1:40:51.316 --> 1:40:54.116 when you're working on shot, you only got one shot 1:40:54.156 --> 1:40:55.836 and it's hard to even know the way in it. 1:40:55.916 --> 1:40:59.236 But sometimes you'd be working on twenty songs and one 1:40:59.356 --> 1:41:03.436 song you're like, oh, that's the key to the whole thing. 1:41:03.716 --> 1:41:06.156 Now we know how it's all gonna work. Do you 1:41:06.276 --> 1:41:09.636 do you ever run into a situation in which where 1:41:09.676 --> 1:41:14.996 that trust isn't isn't there where you know an artist 1:41:15.036 --> 1:41:17.636 is stubborn They feel that you know, well, you know, 1:41:19.076 --> 1:41:22.916 I'm given a hypothetical example. I don't know, like if 1:41:22.916 --> 1:41:27.916 you can tell Adele okay sing this shit again, give 1:41:27.956 --> 1:41:31.836 me take nine and she'll knock it out. The part 1:41:31.876 --> 1:41:36.436 as opposed to again convincing the beastie boys that fight 1:41:36.516 --> 1:41:39.916 for your right is the song. And trust me on 1:41:39.956 --> 1:41:42.916 this one? Like how much trust me on this one? 1:41:43.156 --> 1:41:46.956 End quote? Do you have to go through in your post? 1:41:47.876 --> 1:41:52.596 In your post def jam posts American Recordings career? It's 1:41:52.756 --> 1:41:55.396 like now in terms of like working with Neil Diamond 1:41:55.676 --> 1:42:01.676 or even James Blake, Yeah, almost never, almost never. Trust 1:42:01.756 --> 1:42:04.916 me on this one. I don't like that the goal 1:42:05.316 --> 1:42:08.596 is to I always say at the beginning of a project, 1:42:08.676 --> 1:42:13.396 it's like everyone has to like it. Everyone here has 1:42:13.476 --> 1:42:16.476 to love it. If I love it and you don't 1:42:16.516 --> 1:42:19.116 love it, we've failed. If you love it and I 1:42:19.116 --> 1:42:22.716 don't love it, we've failed. It just means we haven't 1:42:22.756 --> 1:42:25.596 gone far enough if we don't all love it. Have 1:42:25.716 --> 1:42:28.156 you ever had to walk away from a project. I've 1:42:28.196 --> 1:42:29.996 never had to walk away, but I've been walked away 1:42:30.036 --> 1:42:34.236 on I'm not a quitter. I don't I don't quit projects, 1:42:35.116 --> 1:42:37.436 but there have been there've been a I can tell you. 1:42:37.476 --> 1:42:40.596 I can tell you about a couple. Uh tell, we tried, 1:42:40.756 --> 1:42:45.476 Like I started an album with Crosby, Sills and Nash 1:42:45.596 --> 1:42:51.076 and when ten years ago, twelve twelve, about ten years ago, 1:42:51.516 --> 1:42:54.196 and it was a and there was a case of 1:42:54.236 --> 1:42:56.116 there being a lack of trust, but the lack of 1:42:56.156 --> 1:43:00.156 trust more had to do with themselves, like within the band. 1:43:00.436 --> 1:43:02.956 Like there's another interesting thing. When the Chili Peppers first 1:43:02.956 --> 1:43:05.516 asked me to produce them, it was before Blood Sugar 1:43:05.516 --> 1:43:10.916 Sex Magic. It was two albums before that Sally, I 1:43:10.956 --> 1:43:13.156 think it was Freaky Sally, the one, the one where 1:43:13.156 --> 1:43:15.436 it was all of the original members. And I remember 1:43:15.436 --> 1:43:20.276 a friend of mine mofo thing yea, whichever one had 1:43:20.316 --> 1:43:22.556 all of the original members because a friend of mine said, 1:43:23.556 --> 1:43:26.636 who loved them, said, if you're ever going to produce 1:43:26.636 --> 1:43:28.316 the Chili Peppers, now as the time. It's all of 1:43:28.356 --> 1:43:31.516 the original members. This is the time. So me and 1:43:31.596 --> 1:43:35.596 Adam Harvits, beastie boy Adam Harvitz went to a rehearsal 1:43:36.476 --> 1:43:39.276 in La on Sunset Boulevard of the Chili Peppers at 1:43:39.316 --> 1:43:42.836 that time, and there was just a weird, bad vibe 1:43:42.996 --> 1:43:45.356 in the room. Had nothing to do with us. It 1:43:45.396 --> 1:43:48.636 was just between them. It felt shady, and I didn't 1:43:48.676 --> 1:43:50.596 know what it was. Now I've come to learn later 1:43:50.716 --> 1:43:52.796 it was drugs, but I didn't I didn't know that. 1:43:52.836 --> 1:43:54.556 I didn't know what to look for it that time. 1:43:54.756 --> 1:44:00.476 I just felt like yes, but there was the sense 1:44:00.556 --> 1:44:04.196 that these guys don't trust each other, like they didn't 1:44:04.276 --> 1:44:08.116 look at each other with like. It just felt shaky, 1:44:08.356 --> 1:44:11.556 the whole thing shaky, and it felt like I don't 1:44:11.596 --> 1:44:13.516 really think this is right for me to be around, 1:44:13.556 --> 1:44:15.956 Like I don't know how to do this. And another 1:44:15.996 --> 1:44:19.716 one was Joe Cocker. I went to the studio with 1:44:19.796 --> 1:44:22.836 Joe Cocker. I had it at the time that I 1:44:22.876 --> 1:44:26.356 produced a CDC and I got Malcolm Young to play 1:44:26.436 --> 1:44:31.356 rhythm guitar on Joe Cocker record. Mike Campbell from the Heartbreakers, 1:44:31.836 --> 1:44:35.396 Ben Mount from the Heartbreakers. It was a really good band. 1:44:35.396 --> 1:44:39.716 It was really good session and Joe. I wanted it 1:44:39.756 --> 1:44:48.396 to be a very raw, guttural, emotional album. And Joe 1:44:49.876 --> 1:44:53.036 saw himself more like Sting. He wanted to be more 1:44:53.076 --> 1:45:01.556 like a Sting album, like jazzy Stings, like very produced, adult, 1:45:01.956 --> 1:45:06.436 very adult man. He wanted, he wanted, he wanted his 1:45:06.476 --> 1:45:11.036 Grammy moment and thing, and I just it wasn't. It 1:45:11.116 --> 1:45:13.356 wasn't so much as I don't feel like I quit. 1:45:13.516 --> 1:45:16.476 It was just like our visions were so different that 1:45:16.556 --> 1:45:20.836 it just no one was really interested. We didn't nobody 1:45:20.836 --> 1:45:24.396 wanted to make the same thing, so that one didn't happen. Yes, 1:45:24.476 --> 1:45:27.556 but considering how many albums I've made, I could count 1:45:27.596 --> 1:45:30.356 on one hand, less than one hand, how many times 1:45:30.356 --> 1:45:33.156 it has not worked out. You mentioned a CDC, and 1:45:33.156 --> 1:45:37.276 I'm gonna forget this question. Are they do they have 1:45:37.316 --> 1:45:43.436 an iota or are they even remotely aware of how 1:45:43.556 --> 1:45:48.316 much flick of the switch has changed your life personally? 1:45:49.476 --> 1:45:51.556 Other than what I told them, you know, I told 1:45:51.596 --> 1:45:56.236 I would tell them it's like their their music. They 1:45:56.276 --> 1:46:00.396 have no idea that that one note has fed is 1:46:00.396 --> 1:46:01.956 that where it's from. I don't even know. I just 1:46:02.076 --> 1:46:07.716 randomly switch no, no, I knocked the bells and just 1:46:07.956 --> 1:46:14.796 the trademark Rick Rubinow, Okay, I always wanted to know. 1:46:14.836 --> 1:46:17.716 I wouldn't even know. It's so funny. I wouldn't have 1:46:17.756 --> 1:46:21.516 even known that that's what it was. I just literally 1:46:21.516 --> 1:46:22.836 every time it's like, oh, I think it's on an 1:46:22.876 --> 1:46:25.916 ACDC record, and I just hunt through every track until 1:46:25.956 --> 1:46:30.356 I find something and something like that. Man, it's very 1:46:30.436 --> 1:46:36.316 hip hop with you, okay, so LL's sophomore record. It's interesting, unusual, 1:46:37.396 --> 1:46:41.316 unusual story. I don't believe I've ever told it publicly. Um. 1:46:42.196 --> 1:46:47.676 At the time that I met El, he was being raised. 1:46:47.956 --> 1:46:49.996 His mom was in the picture, but he was mainly 1:46:50.036 --> 1:46:52.916 being raised by his grandmother, and he didn't know his dad. 1:46:53.356 --> 1:46:58.116 And then we made our first album together, and then 1:46:58.236 --> 1:47:02.236 he became LL cool J probably seventeen at that time. 1:47:02.636 --> 1:47:10.076 And then LLL's dad appears, Oh wow, and he comes back, 1:47:11.036 --> 1:47:17.436 and LLL obviously wants his dad and his and Russell 1:47:17.596 --> 1:47:22.996 was managing LLL and ll IF I remember correctly fired 1:47:23.076 --> 1:47:26.476 Russell and hired Jimmy, his dad, to be his manager, 1:47:27.716 --> 1:47:33.116 and I just I just felt like it was a 1:47:33.156 --> 1:47:36.356 bad vibe. Like I never discussed it with L. We 1:47:36.436 --> 1:47:41.516 never talked about it. It just felt like something's going 1:47:41.556 --> 1:47:45.996 on here that's dark, and this is not energy for 1:47:46.036 --> 1:47:49.156 me to be around. This good is not going to 1:47:49.196 --> 1:47:52.796 come from this situation, and I just sort of bowed 1:47:52.796 --> 1:47:55.996 out and then it ended up it ended up turning 1:47:56.036 --> 1:47:59.876 bad Um sometime I don't know how much longer, but 1:48:00.236 --> 1:48:02.156 I think there were ended up being problems between Ell 1:48:02.236 --> 1:48:05.156 and his dad after that, but it just yeah, it 1:48:05.196 --> 1:48:09.236 just felt too shady, felt too um. I didn't like 1:48:09.316 --> 1:48:11.676 that they were not nice to Russell when Russell really 1:48:11.716 --> 1:48:14.556 cared about Elle, like firing a guy who was really 1:48:14.596 --> 1:48:17.676 working for you. This new guy coming in the scene 1:48:17.956 --> 1:48:20.796 kind of under questionable. Yes he was his dad, but 1:48:20.876 --> 1:48:23.956 still why wasn't his dad before? He was all cool? Right, 1:48:24.076 --> 1:48:29.716 It was just it just felt very weird. Can you 1:48:29.916 --> 1:48:37.036 explain to me what exactly was your role in Jesus 1:48:37.956 --> 1:48:43.276 and in the life of Pablo, Because to see the 1:48:43.316 --> 1:48:46.676 credits on the albums, I'm just assuming that you're in 1:48:46.796 --> 1:48:54.116 a room with over twelve to twenty chefs and everyone's 1:48:54.196 --> 1:48:58.076 just throwing ideas in well, just based on looking at 1:48:58.116 --> 1:49:04.596 the album credits, like exactly, it's not exactly how it worked. 1:49:04.836 --> 1:49:10.556 Kanye built up the material over years? Is the for that? 1:49:10.676 --> 1:49:16.036 What ended up being? Yess? Okay? When he first came 1:49:16.916 --> 1:49:18.996 he called me, he called me and said, hey, I 1:49:19.036 --> 1:49:21.636 want to come over and play in my new album. Okay, 1:49:21.716 --> 1:49:24.996 It's like great. He came over and we listened to 1:49:25.156 --> 1:49:30.516 three hours of music yo, with almost no vocals, like 1:49:30.596 --> 1:49:35.196 just yes, and it's like wow, cool, It's like off 1:49:35.196 --> 1:49:37.916 to a good start. What do you know, what are 1:49:37.916 --> 1:49:40.156 you thinking you're gonna you know, make you think you'll 1:49:40.156 --> 1:49:42.676 finish next year or something. He's like, it's coming out 1:49:42.716 --> 1:49:49.476 in three weeks, and I said, what it's like? It 1:49:49.596 --> 1:49:51.756 made no sense. And then and I played in Black Sabbath. 1:49:51.796 --> 1:49:54.076 I said, you know, ad this Black Sabbath album that's 1:49:54.156 --> 1:49:57.876 done and mastered, and that's not coming out in three weeks, 1:49:57.956 --> 1:50:01.916 that's coming out later than that. It's like this, this 1:50:01.996 --> 1:50:03.796 is what it sounds like when it's coming out in 1:50:03.836 --> 1:50:10.036 three weeks. And and he said, I want you to 1:50:10.076 --> 1:50:11.796 help me finish it. I want it to be like, 1:50:13.796 --> 1:50:18.796 let's finish it. And it was a terrifying experience because 1:50:18.836 --> 1:50:20.596 I've never worked on anything like that. I don't like 1:50:20.636 --> 1:50:23.796 to work on a deadline ever. Anyway, It's like I 1:50:23.836 --> 1:50:26.556 always feel like it sort of happens as it's supposed 1:50:26.596 --> 1:50:29.276 to happen. Some things happened very quickly, some things take 1:50:29.316 --> 1:50:33.556 a long time. LLL's first album probably took less than 1:50:33.596 --> 1:50:35.796 a month to record. And when I say less than 1:50:35.836 --> 1:50:39.956 a month, meaning a song a day that's on the 1:50:40.036 --> 1:50:43.876 album over the course of a month. Do you know 1:50:43.876 --> 1:50:45.436 what I'm saying? Not in the studio every day for 1:50:45.476 --> 1:50:48.516 a month, Like I got a new track, Let's go 1:50:48.516 --> 1:50:53.876 in on Thursday. That happening totally a month, whereas the 1:50:53.876 --> 1:50:59.236 First beast with the First Beasties album was probably two 1:50:59.356 --> 1:51:02.756 years in the making, and it just took that long. 1:51:02.876 --> 1:51:05.436 It just took not every day again, it was like, 1:51:06.916 --> 1:51:09.676 it just takes a long time because the you're waiting 1:51:09.716 --> 1:51:11.996 for the ideas to come. It's like, it's not pre written, 1:51:12.716 --> 1:51:15.516 we're writing it now. Now most of the artists I 1:51:15.556 --> 1:51:18.316 work with, we don't go into the studio until it's 1:51:18.396 --> 1:51:21.596 mostly all written. So it's a different it's a different experience, 1:51:21.636 --> 1:51:24.316 and that could happen in a much shorter time. Wait, 1:51:24.316 --> 1:51:26.436 so did Kanye already have his verses written but they 1:51:26.436 --> 1:51:32.596 just weren't on the tracks? No? No, it wasn't even 1:51:32.636 --> 1:51:34.356 clear what the songs were going to sound like or 1:51:34.396 --> 1:51:36.156 what was going to be on the album. It was 1:51:36.556 --> 1:51:40.556 a very wide range of songs and it was super cool. 1:51:40.756 --> 1:51:43.276 It was cool. I've come to learn that's the way 1:51:43.276 --> 1:51:46.996 he works. This was I'd never worked like that before, 1:51:46.996 --> 1:51:48.836 so it was unusual to me. To him, it was 1:51:48.916 --> 1:51:51.676 standard in the past. When I've said he wrote you 1:51:51.716 --> 1:51:54.436 know half of the lyrics on the last two days 1:51:54.476 --> 1:51:57.636 that like I'm saying he doesn't care about it, that's 1:51:57.756 --> 1:52:02.916 not at all the case. It's his process is living 1:52:02.916 --> 1:52:05.916 with it. He's singing to himself internally all the time, 1:52:06.436 --> 1:52:10.276 and he doesn't like to commit. He doesn't commit it 1:52:10.436 --> 1:52:16.396 down until it's gonna stay because otherwise it's gonna change. 1:52:16.716 --> 1:52:19.756 So he doesn't like if he would have done if 1:52:19.756 --> 1:52:21.676 he would have played me songs with vocals done, the 1:52:21.676 --> 1:52:26.156 album already would have been out. In the way he works. Yeah, 1:52:26.196 --> 1:52:31.516 I was gonna say, I remember whatever day that Jesus 1:52:31.556 --> 1:52:37.436 came out. I remember texting you maybe like three days before, 1:52:39.036 --> 1:52:42.076 just doing some okay, is it going to happen or not? 1:52:42.676 --> 1:52:46.476 Because I think they had a pushback date or whatever. 1:52:46.516 --> 1:52:48.556 There's like a day that I was supposed to come 1:52:48.556 --> 1:52:51.916 out and it didn't and you were like, we're literally 1:52:52.876 --> 1:52:55.196 in the middle of trying to wrap up right now. 1:52:55.996 --> 1:52:58.636 And I was like, wait a minute, if you're in 1:52:58.676 --> 1:53:00.556 the middle of trapping right like doing it right now, 1:53:00.596 --> 1:53:03.356 and then is the record pressed up? And like I'm 1:53:03.396 --> 1:53:05.356 thinking in terms of the old system where you had 1:53:05.396 --> 1:53:08.396 to turn it in three months ahead of time, factory 1:53:08.516 --> 1:53:12.636 all those things, and literally, well, even with Pablo, you 1:53:12.676 --> 1:53:17.276 guys were still editing and changing it. And next thing 1:53:17.316 --> 1:53:19.436 I knew I had three different versions of the Pablo 1:53:19.476 --> 1:53:22.476 record because he just kept changing it over again. I 1:53:22.516 --> 1:53:25.596 remember when we finished Jesus and it came out about 1:53:25.636 --> 1:53:29.116 a week later. A week or two later, Kindie came 1:53:29.156 --> 1:53:32.436 to the studio in Malibu and just we just started 1:53:32.436 --> 1:53:33.996 talking about what do you think's next, Like what do 1:53:33.996 --> 1:53:35.556 you think the next one's going to be like? And 1:53:35.796 --> 1:53:41.356 he was kind of excited to at least start marching 1:53:41.396 --> 1:53:43.996 in a direction, and we just started brainstorming and we 1:53:44.076 --> 1:53:47.156 had an idea then that actually ended up it ended 1:53:47.236 --> 1:53:50.836 up not being so much what not so much what 1:53:50.876 --> 1:53:53.676 Pablo's like. But it has come around to that eventually. 1:53:54.716 --> 1:53:58.876 But after we had a similar conversation the end. When 1:53:59.076 --> 1:54:02.556 Pablo got delivered, I was in Hawaii and I remember 1:54:02.876 --> 1:54:05.516 getting new versions of the album every day to listen 1:54:05.516 --> 1:54:07.916 to and give my notes. And I was giving notes 1:54:07.956 --> 1:54:10.516 every day. It's like I just listen. I would drive 1:54:10.596 --> 1:54:14.076 up and down the road here in Kauai and listen 1:54:14.156 --> 1:54:16.636 and like, okay, this is you know, this is working. 1:54:16.756 --> 1:54:19.356 Let's remix this, let's try this, and whatever. Notes, you know, 1:54:19.396 --> 1:54:22.396 anything that I could add to help make it better. Um. 1:54:23.716 --> 1:54:26.876 And then I talked to Kanye again like it was 1:54:26.956 --> 1:54:28.836 now a ritual a couple of weeks after the record 1:54:28.876 --> 1:54:31.836 comes out, and um, and I'd say, oh, so, what 1:54:31.876 --> 1:54:33.236 are you thinking about? What are you what are you 1:54:33.236 --> 1:54:35.476 working on? He's like, I'm working on this mix on 1:54:36.676 --> 1:54:38.596 SO and so. It's one of the songs on Pablo. 1:54:38.636 --> 1:54:43.796 It's like, that's out. What are you talking about. It's like, well, yeah, 1:54:43.796 --> 1:54:47.916 it's out, but I'm not done yet. Like really, It's like, 1:54:48.156 --> 1:54:51.436 I it just like, blew my mind the conversation. Blew 1:54:51.516 --> 1:54:55.076 my mind. You still because up until well up, yeah, 1:54:55.236 --> 1:54:57.956 in my over the course of my life, once it 1:54:58.036 --> 1:55:03.956 came out, that was it. Ye. So to just that 1:55:04.916 --> 1:55:07.276 his ability to see pass well, just because that's the 1:55:07.316 --> 1:55:08.996 way it always is. That means the way it is. No, 1:55:09.276 --> 1:55:11.236 it's like, if I want to change it, I'll change it, 1:55:11.276 --> 1:55:14.476 and I'll change as many times as I want. It's incredible. 1:55:14.876 --> 1:55:21.436 Blew my mind loved it. Wow to me hearing the 1:55:21.516 --> 1:55:25.756 Jesus record. And you know, I admit that I'd consume 1:55:25.836 --> 1:55:30.236 most of my music now via my iPhone and my computer, 1:55:31.156 --> 1:55:32.796 not in the same way that I would have, you know, 1:55:32.916 --> 1:55:35.436 twenty years ago, like and put it in the stereos 1:55:35.476 --> 1:55:38.396 and yeah, that sort of thing. So at first I was, 1:55:38.596 --> 1:55:41.756 I was, the mix was just really harsh to me. 1:55:42.036 --> 1:55:46.156 And then once I heard it at Madison Square Garden 1:55:47.396 --> 1:55:50.156 with no drums, I mean, the thing was like, drums 1:55:50.236 --> 1:55:54.036 is almost non existent on this record, And then I 1:55:54.196 --> 1:55:58.756 realized that, oh wow, this album was made for stadiums, 1:55:58.756 --> 1:56:02.356 and stadiums. Only when you guys are working in the studio, 1:56:02.716 --> 1:56:07.556 are you blasting the music at the highest levels possible, 1:56:07.676 --> 1:56:10.396 like z he violating the don't kill your ears in 1:56:10.476 --> 1:56:13.316 the studio thing, or because I was taught like when 1:56:13.316 --> 1:56:16.516 you're in the studio, you're supposed to have soft volumes, 1:56:16.516 --> 1:56:19.316 so that way you don't kill your ears when you're mixing. 1:56:19.916 --> 1:56:23.756 But I know, like rappers, not to take him as 1:56:23.836 --> 1:56:26.756 quote rappers, but I know that we you know, want 1:56:26.756 --> 1:56:29.236 to hear that shit loud and you know, hit the 1:56:29.276 --> 1:56:33.876 OX button now like that sort of thing. But we listen. 1:56:34.236 --> 1:56:38.836 We listen at realistic levels. So in other words, if 1:56:38.836 --> 1:56:41.556 the thing we're making is meant to be heard loud, 1:56:41.956 --> 1:56:46.356 we listen to it loud. And we don't have giant speakers. 1:56:46.356 --> 1:56:49.316 We just use regular you know, like the monitors that 1:56:49.356 --> 1:56:52.556 would sit on the desk. We don't use big giant monitors. 1:56:53.196 --> 1:56:57.396 Um okay. Kanye uses some some big ones with with 1:56:58.396 --> 1:57:00.116 that are much louder than the ones that we have 1:57:00.156 --> 1:57:02.836 in the studio that I always request it to be 1:57:02.876 --> 1:57:06.876 turned down because it's too much for me. Um, you're 1:57:06.956 --> 1:57:10.436 to for a while you were president of Columbia Records. 1:57:10.596 --> 1:57:16.196 Why did you decide to take a desk job and why? 1:57:16.236 --> 1:57:18.676 I mean, how how was that experience for that that 1:57:18.876 --> 1:57:22.996 that tenure as president of Columbia. Uh, it was not 1:57:23.076 --> 1:57:30.236 a desk job, which is why I entertained. And my 1:57:30.316 --> 1:57:33.756 thought was the thing that I do on records has 1:57:33.756 --> 1:57:39.316 has very little to do with music. It's like my 1:57:39.396 --> 1:57:43.156 style of production. It would it would work regardless of 1:57:43.156 --> 1:57:45.956 whether it was music. It's like a way to look 1:57:45.956 --> 1:57:50.476 at things. It's a recontextualization of what we're working on 1:57:50.956 --> 1:57:56.316 and solving problems. I happened to do it mostly in 1:57:56.436 --> 1:58:00.196 music because that's just how it ended up, right, But 1:58:00.316 --> 1:58:04.076 the idea was to apply the same like what would 1:58:04.116 --> 1:58:08.116 it be like to produce a record company? Wow? And 1:58:09.116 --> 1:58:14.556 there were other people to do the desk work. And 1:58:14.716 --> 1:58:18.956 this was to be more of a helping curate the 1:58:18.996 --> 1:58:23.036 best artists, helping the artists make the best records that 1:58:23.076 --> 1:58:26.116 they can. Basically the same thing that I do, except 1:58:26.156 --> 1:58:29.836 on a bigger scale. And at the time we by 1:58:29.836 --> 1:58:33.516 the time, right till the end there, Columbia Records went 1:58:33.596 --> 1:58:38.156 from sort of a not great roster to maybe the 1:58:38.196 --> 1:58:40.996 best roster in the business at that moment in time. 1:58:41.836 --> 1:58:46.916 The corporate politics of it were not something that suited 1:58:47.036 --> 1:58:54.596 who I am, and I didn't engage. So basically it'd 1:58:54.636 --> 1:58:57.716 be like if you're running for a office for office 1:58:58.436 --> 1:59:02.436 and you're fighting with You're in a debate with someone 1:59:02.476 --> 1:59:06.036 who's screaming at you and lying and cursing. I'm not 1:59:06.116 --> 1:59:11.436 doing that. So ultimately the situation worked in a way 1:59:11.476 --> 1:59:16.156 where it wasn't really good. It could have been great, 1:59:16.396 --> 1:59:20.476 and it creatively was great, but had had the politics 1:59:20.516 --> 1:59:23.476 not come into it, I think would still be doing it. 1:59:23.516 --> 1:59:27.796 And will you ever establish a label? Well, I don't 1:59:27.796 --> 1:59:30.676 know there's a need to establish a label in twenty twenty, 1:59:30.716 --> 1:59:36.276 but whatever the twenty twenty version of starting a deaf 1:59:36.356 --> 1:59:41.036 jam or a Deaf American or Colombia, will you ever 1:59:41.196 --> 1:59:44.196 dive in that Pool again, Are you fine with the 1:59:44.316 --> 1:59:47.156 zone that you're in right now? If there are any 1:59:47.196 --> 1:59:48.916 acts that I want to work with which are few 1:59:48.916 --> 1:59:51.996 and far between, that I want to sign, then I 1:59:52.036 --> 1:59:54.396 have a relationship with Universal where I can sign an 1:59:54.396 --> 1:59:57.276 act and it'll be on American and it'll come out 1:59:57.916 --> 2:00:00.116 and I don't have to have a staff. It's like 2:00:00.156 --> 2:00:04.236 they do the record company part and I could be 2:00:04.356 --> 2:00:07.876 the creative partner. And that feels about right. I mean, 2:00:07.916 --> 2:00:11.396 if there was a reason to reinvent the label or 2:00:11.516 --> 2:00:16.836 help them get better, I'd be open to discussing. It's 2:00:16.876 --> 2:00:20.836 like I like making. I like the challenge of making 2:00:20.876 --> 2:00:23.356 something good whatever it is, like figuring out how do 2:00:23.356 --> 2:00:26.076 we make this better. I always wanted to ask you 2:00:26.116 --> 2:00:29.956 about sir mix a lot Man. What led you signing him? 2:00:29.956 --> 2:00:33.956 My buddy, yeah, shout him, my buddy Dan Charnis who 2:00:33.996 --> 2:00:38.076 yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah yeah. And he brought up 2:00:38.076 --> 2:00:39.676 a real We had him on the show like when 2:00:39.676 --> 2:00:41.676 we first started, like a couple of years back, and 2:00:41.716 --> 2:00:43.836 he brought up a really interesting thing I never really 2:00:43.876 --> 2:00:46.636 noticed about you of like he noticed you kind of 2:00:46.636 --> 2:00:49.956 tend to go for kind of nasally mcs like ad 2:00:50.036 --> 2:00:51.756 Rod mix a Lot you know what I mean, they 2:00:51.796 --> 2:00:54.116 have that kind of similar tone. Um, so I was 2:00:54.116 --> 2:00:56.156 curious to know, like, what how did you find out 2:00:56.196 --> 2:00:57.996 about Mix a Lot and what led do you signing him? 2:00:59.556 --> 2:01:06.356 Love the record Posse on Broadway? Yes, yes, your record? No, well, 2:01:06.556 --> 2:01:11.836 no was on this. This is all I'm saying, and 2:01:12.036 --> 2:01:14.436 I'm so glad you brought this up. Fante, How did 2:01:14.436 --> 2:01:17.956 you I never as a Philadelphia and I feel guilty 2:01:17.996 --> 2:01:22.596 for not mentioning what your relationship to PSK was and 2:01:22.756 --> 2:01:26.236 by the transit of Vaccium, how did you feel about 2:01:27.236 --> 2:01:31.596 the way the entire West Coast sort of ate up 2:01:32.516 --> 2:01:35.836 that particular style because that was with sir Mix a Lot. 2:01:35.916 --> 2:01:39.596 That was especially with the first in Way record. Every 2:01:39.876 --> 2:01:49.076 song was like it was practically the West Coast. Like 2:01:49.596 --> 2:01:54.876 were you at all aware of the blueprint that license 2:01:54.916 --> 2:01:58.756 the ill gave to the entire coast? Not really, I think, 2:01:58.836 --> 2:02:02.116 probably too close to see. How Also, you know, I 2:02:02.636 --> 2:02:06.116 come to realize later that Brass Monkey, like there was 2:02:06.156 --> 2:02:08.956 no such thing as Miami Base before Brass Monkey. So 2:02:09.116 --> 2:02:11.156 it's like it it led to a lot of different 2:02:11.676 --> 2:02:15.356 It had different tentacles that inspired people in different ways, No, 2:02:15.356 --> 2:02:17.876 no doubt, man, So a Mix a Lot, how you 2:02:17.996 --> 2:02:20.156 like Plasto braadway? And then how'd you go about it? 2:02:20.356 --> 2:02:21.636 I just reach out to him and said, hey, if 2:02:21.636 --> 2:02:23.436 this ever an opportunity to work together, I'd love to 2:02:23.476 --> 2:02:25.676 do it. And then it ended up working out. He's like, well, 2:02:25.676 --> 2:02:27.116 I'm on my own label. I don't really want to 2:02:27.156 --> 2:02:30.356 do that now. But and then eventually came around like, yep, 2:02:30.396 --> 2:02:34.956 I think I'm ready to do this. Let's do this American? 2:02:35.396 --> 2:02:38.916 Was that on American? Yes? Oh? Okay? That was? That 2:02:38.956 --> 2:02:42.316 was on a Macdaddy album? Okay, And I can't remember. 2:02:42.436 --> 2:02:45.596 I've heard Mix a Lot say that I changed the 2:02:45.636 --> 2:02:49.276 tempo of it drastically in a way that he loves. 2:02:49.356 --> 2:02:52.436 But like that I heard it differently than he heard it. 2:02:52.476 --> 2:02:54.396 I don't really remember that, but that I've heard him 2:02:54.436 --> 2:02:56.916 say that. He's saying that he physically slowed it down. 2:02:57.756 --> 2:02:59.956 I think I sped it up. They sped it up, 2:03:00.756 --> 2:03:02.996 but I'm not sure. I honestly I don't remember it 2:03:02.996 --> 2:03:05.756 at all. He would, he would know better than I. 2:03:05.756 --> 2:03:07.996 I was gonna say. Just back on your American stee 2:03:08.196 --> 2:03:11.076 there was a record you signed that was It really 2:03:11.076 --> 2:03:13.036 took me by surprise that you signed them because it 2:03:13.076 --> 2:03:15.756 was unlike anything that you would ever sign or worked 2:03:15.796 --> 2:03:19.076 with before the record The Knots were ultimate. I don't 2:03:19.116 --> 2:03:23.476 know if you even remember. Yeah, yeah that was that 2:03:23.556 --> 2:03:28.516 was a Dan Charnis signing. That was n Chars my shit, 2:03:29.796 --> 2:03:33.676 and I forgot Yeah, of course a bad Lad too. 2:03:33.876 --> 2:03:37.956 Is that Dan Charnis as well? I think so damn yes, Okay, 2:03:37.996 --> 2:03:40.716 I totally forgot about those too. So with your A 2:03:40.836 --> 2:03:42.756 and R is you just pretty much let them kind 2:03:42.756 --> 2:03:44.756 of do them, just like if y'all like it, y'all 2:03:44.756 --> 2:03:46.716 believe in it, I'll fuck with it. Like what was 2:03:46.756 --> 2:03:49.436 your Roland it was? It was a combination. It's like 2:03:49.596 --> 2:03:51.876 if they were really passionate, either I had to like 2:03:51.956 --> 2:03:54.556 it too, or if they were really passionate, it's like, 2:03:54.596 --> 2:03:56.916 this is the one. The whole idea of having more 2:03:56.956 --> 2:03:59.596 A and R people was not just to find stuff 2:03:59.636 --> 2:04:01.836 for me. It was like if someone really was in 2:04:01.836 --> 2:04:05.116 love with something, then it was exciting to see what 2:04:05.156 --> 2:04:07.076 could happen. And it worked out in the case of 2:04:07.116 --> 2:04:09.556 the if you like those records that dance, and if 2:04:09.556 --> 2:04:12.396 you liked the Black Crows that George signed, then it worked. 2:04:12.716 --> 2:04:15.676 I got warmer music question before I ask you my 2:04:15.796 --> 2:04:20.636 last question, because we could be twelve hours working. Well, 2:04:20.676 --> 2:04:23.916 I know that you produced, and I'm a big fan 2:04:23.916 --> 2:04:26.636 of the Strokes. I know that you worked on the 2:04:26.676 --> 2:04:30.556 New Abnormal. First of all, did that title come up 2:04:30.956 --> 2:04:36.396 in very last minute? No, in relation to where we 2:04:36.436 --> 2:04:40.476 are now, because that that that's sort of a apropos title, 2:04:41.036 --> 2:04:43.996 did not It just it was a title that m 2:04:45.356 --> 2:04:50.516 that Julian came up with their pre pre virus, and 2:04:50.596 --> 2:04:56.436 it's again just sort of the universe conspiring to make 2:04:56.436 --> 2:05:00.676 the art, right. I'm assuming that they recorded out in 2:05:00.756 --> 2:05:04.516 Hawaii with you. With you we recorded in Malibu, Okay, 2:05:05.196 --> 2:05:08.156 which I think is kind of different than all the 2:05:08.196 --> 2:05:11.956 studios that they pre obviously recorded their music. And so 2:05:12.396 --> 2:05:16.236 how hard was it to get the well oiled machine 2:05:16.236 --> 2:05:21.556 of what the Strokes represented, especially in in the early aughts, 2:05:21.556 --> 2:05:23.476 And I know there was so much pressure on them 2:05:23.516 --> 2:05:27.876 to be the next big thing in quotes like how 2:05:27.956 --> 2:05:30.796 much of that was on their minds making this record? 2:05:30.796 --> 2:05:33.636 Because I can only assume that they took a ten 2:05:33.716 --> 2:05:37.676 year hiatus because of the pressure of living up to 2:05:37.796 --> 2:05:42.436 something that they couldn't sort of jump over a hurdle 2:05:42.516 --> 2:05:45.116 that they couldn't match or whatever. Well, I think that 2:05:46.076 --> 2:05:50.756 the first record they put out was there considered their 2:05:50.836 --> 2:05:53.596 like breakthrough. That was the one, that's the one that 2:05:53.676 --> 2:05:56.756 sort of lit everything up. And the second album, the 2:05:56.836 --> 2:06:01.196 second album seems like it didn't change the world, but 2:06:01.316 --> 2:06:04.636 continued that and then since then it's been more hit 2:06:04.716 --> 2:06:11.316 and miss. So I don't think they felt a tremendous don't. 2:06:11.356 --> 2:06:13.956 I didn't get the sense that they felt a tremendous 2:06:13.996 --> 2:06:17.316 amount of pressure. I think they felt like, let's make 2:06:17.356 --> 2:06:19.756 another album because that's what we do, we haven't done 2:06:19.796 --> 2:06:22.836 it in a while, and hoping it would be good. 2:06:22.876 --> 2:06:25.116 You know. It's another like the Chili Peppers. They had 2:06:25.116 --> 2:06:28.716 asked me to produce an album eight or ten years ago, 2:06:29.436 --> 2:06:33.876 and they sent me demos and I listened to demos 2:06:33.876 --> 2:06:38.436 and I just I couldn't hear. I couldn't imagine how 2:06:38.516 --> 2:06:41.716 this like, how to make something that interesting with what 2:06:41.756 --> 2:06:43.836 they sent like it didn't. It was just not a 2:06:43.836 --> 2:06:47.476 good starting point. And if that's a no from you, 2:06:48.036 --> 2:06:51.276 is does that filter to them that oh shit, this 2:06:51.396 --> 2:06:55.156 might be bad. I don't know. I just I just said, 2:06:55.396 --> 2:06:56.876 I don't think this is right for me. I don't 2:06:56.876 --> 2:06:59.356 I don't see how to do this and then on 2:06:59.396 --> 2:07:04.836 this album they sent me demos and these were probably 2:07:04.916 --> 2:07:09.596 the worst quality demos I've ever gotten from any artist, 2:07:09.956 --> 2:07:13.596 in that one track might be a thirty second voice 2:07:13.596 --> 2:07:20.676 note on the phone, like real, very very basic, like 2:07:21.956 --> 2:07:27.156 thumbnail sketches, and I listened to that vs and it's like, Oh, 2:07:27.196 --> 2:07:29.636 this is gonna be great. We gotta make this. It's 2:07:29.676 --> 2:07:34.636 like I could I could feel what was there was inspiring. 2:07:34.676 --> 2:07:36.716 It's like you could listen to a twenty second clip 2:07:36.756 --> 2:07:39.196 and go, oh, if there was a song that sounded 2:07:39.236 --> 2:07:41.916 like this twenty second clip, I'd listen to that all day. 2:07:42.276 --> 2:07:45.956 Let's make that. So is that the beginning of working 2:07:45.956 --> 2:07:49.836 with you, like one has to send the roughest sketch 2:07:49.876 --> 2:07:53.316 of a song before you can see the light to 2:07:53.356 --> 2:07:57.396 see how you can develop it. Or does everyone do 2:07:57.436 --> 2:08:00.036 the Kanye thing where it's damn near completed and then 2:08:00.116 --> 2:08:03.556 you just you can add the finishing touches to it. 2:08:04.116 --> 2:08:07.476 There's no rule, there's no rule. It's like, have you 2:08:07.476 --> 2:08:09.956 ever built an album from the ground up? Like okay, 2:08:10.276 --> 2:08:15.276 songwriting session less songwriting sessions, But like with the Chili Peppers, 2:08:15.316 --> 2:08:19.116 I would come to rehearsals pretty early on. We would 2:08:19.116 --> 2:08:22.076 probably go through. They might they might have written a 2:08:22.236 --> 2:08:24.996 hundred songs for every album we did, and we would 2:08:24.996 --> 2:08:28.036 talk about him and narrow him down, and what was 2:08:28.036 --> 2:08:32.516 it about under the Bridge that attracted you? The way 2:08:32.516 --> 2:08:35.756 that it happened was just based on the lyric. It 2:08:35.836 --> 2:08:40.876 was a lyric that I found in Anthony's Book of poetry. 2:08:40.956 --> 2:08:43.276 And I asked him what song is this and he said, 2:08:43.316 --> 2:08:45.356 that's not really Chili Pepper song. That's more of a 2:08:45.916 --> 2:08:49.036 like personal thing, more of a poem. And I said, well, 2:08:49.116 --> 2:08:50.636 how would you sing it if you were to sing it? 2:08:50.756 --> 2:08:53.116 And he sang it for him. He's like, he said, 2:08:53.316 --> 2:08:55.396 it's like it's a ballads not it's not a Chili 2:08:55.396 --> 2:09:01.196 Peppers thing. And he sang it to me and I said, 2:09:01.356 --> 2:09:06.396 really beautiful. And people like the Chili Peppers not necessarily 2:09:06.516 --> 2:09:10.356 because you're a funk band with rap lyrics. People like 2:09:10.396 --> 2:09:13.316 the Chili Peppers because they like the music you, for 2:09:13.556 --> 2:09:17.876 guys make And if this is an example of something 2:09:17.996 --> 2:09:22.236 good that you make, I think I think people will 2:09:22.236 --> 2:09:25.396 accept that. It's like that's you don't have to put 2:09:25.436 --> 2:09:28.236 social limitation on what the band is. It's like it's 2:09:28.236 --> 2:09:30.716 about the band is about the people in it what's 2:09:30.756 --> 2:09:32.756 so great about the Beatles? If you listen to their 2:09:33.076 --> 2:09:35.116 early records, in their late records, they don't sound like 2:09:35.156 --> 2:09:38.276 the same band. And that's just in seven years that arc. 2:09:39.276 --> 2:09:42.796 Is there an act that you never with the exception 2:09:42.836 --> 2:09:45.356 of a bill whether and I know the stories of 2:09:45.396 --> 2:09:48.756 you pursuing them, is there an act that you would 2:09:48.756 --> 2:09:51.196 have liked to have worked with it? You never got 2:09:51.316 --> 2:09:55.156 a chance to ave alive or not alive, or disbanded 2:09:55.276 --> 2:09:58.476 or not disbanded well obviously Beatles or led Zeppelin or 2:09:58.516 --> 2:10:01.596 any of the great So like, has McCartney ever approached 2:10:01.636 --> 2:10:07.556 you about producing a record or Fishbone or you know, yeah, 2:10:07.596 --> 2:10:11.036 I met with McCartney and talked about making something has 2:10:11.156 --> 2:10:14.476 not yet happened, but you never know. I would be 2:10:15.196 --> 2:10:17.676 interested to see how that works. What made you settle 2:10:17.756 --> 2:10:20.396 down into the podcast world? And was it the allure 2:10:20.436 --> 2:10:23.276 of doing it with Malcolm Gladwell? And was heatlam or 2:10:23.356 --> 2:10:26.116 like why do you? Why is that now another part 2:10:26.156 --> 2:10:29.196 of your wait? Can I give a small preface for 2:10:29.316 --> 2:10:33.316 this question? So I did your very first podcast correct? 2:10:33.836 --> 2:10:36.236 Was that something like that? One of the one of 2:10:35.796 --> 2:10:37.596 the one of the first time is like the pilot? 2:10:37.636 --> 2:10:40.916 But yeah, Mirry're in there, Okay. I literally had no 2:10:40.996 --> 2:10:44.876 idea what I was walking into because you know, sometimes 2:10:45.156 --> 2:10:49.636 my business being just a little bit jankie. So I 2:10:49.716 --> 2:10:52.436 was I was all my way to the studio thinking 2:10:52.636 --> 2:10:56.836 I was doing a QLs episode because it was the 2:10:56.876 --> 2:11:01.436 same studio wherever we interviewed Heather Hunter or that jazz 2:11:01.436 --> 2:11:04.796 studio that Steve recommended. I got there and I was like, 2:11:04.836 --> 2:11:06.956 oh shit, I'm here to do a QLs episode with 2:11:07.036 --> 2:11:10.756 Malcolm Gladwell. And then I was like, wait, Where's where's 2:11:10.876 --> 2:11:13.996 lay and everyone at? And then I was like, wait, 2:11:14.076 --> 2:11:17.116 Rick Rubin, you're on this episode two? And I just 2:11:17.196 --> 2:11:21.996 winged it, and about twenty minutes into it, I realized, oh, 2:11:22.436 --> 2:11:25.116 I'm here. I gotta read my emails better. I'm here 2:11:25.156 --> 2:11:27.356 to do there. That's the interview you got to prepare for, 2:11:27.516 --> 2:11:29.436 right in me or like being an interview by at 2:11:29.516 --> 2:11:32.756 least those two. Sometimes I fly out the seat. You know, 2:11:32.916 --> 2:11:38.036 we're just freestyling a podcast show and having new clue 2:11:38.316 --> 2:11:41.836 what I'm there for and just getting lucky. So when 2:11:41.876 --> 2:11:45.356 I did their episode, I literally went to that building 2:11:46.156 --> 2:11:49.836 thinking it's a Malcolm Gladwell episode of Quest Love Supreme. 2:11:50.916 --> 2:11:52.796 And then when I saw Rick Rubin's face on the 2:11:52.796 --> 2:11:55.796 television thing because he did it by monitor, I was 2:11:55.836 --> 2:11:58.396 hella confused. I was like, wait a minute, what am 2:11:58.396 --> 2:12:00.596 I doing here? I had to run in the other 2:12:00.676 --> 2:12:02.396 room and like call, like, wait, what am I doing? 2:12:03.196 --> 2:12:05.836 You're doing someone's puck? How did you do it? So, 2:12:07.036 --> 2:12:09.356 but yeah, we talk about why you even chose to 2:12:09.356 --> 2:12:14.636 put that into coortunity. Was friendly with Malcolm and I 2:12:14.676 --> 2:12:18.356 loved his podcast, Revisionist History, and he told me he 2:12:18.396 --> 2:12:21.676 had an idea to do a new podcast around music 2:12:21.836 --> 2:12:24.596 and asked if I would be interested in being involved, 2:12:25.076 --> 2:12:28.516 and I thought, I'm a fan of his work. Be fun. 2:12:28.596 --> 2:12:31.276 It's like, dude, something with Malcolm I wouldn't have normally. 2:12:32.796 --> 2:12:35.716 I probably wouldn't have chosen to do a music podcast 2:12:35.796 --> 2:12:38.116 on my own at that time, just because I feel 2:12:38.116 --> 2:12:39.676 like talk about music most of the time in my 2:12:39.756 --> 2:12:43.036 normal life. It's almost like the podcast would be to 2:12:43.116 --> 2:12:45.636 talk about something else that I'm interested in. I don't 2:12:45.636 --> 2:12:47.356 even know what that would be like. There are a 2:12:47.396 --> 2:12:49.156 lot of things, so it's hard to say I never 2:12:49.196 --> 2:12:53.316 thought about it, but this was more his invitation made 2:12:53.356 --> 2:12:54.956 it seem like, oh, that'd be fun. I love what 2:12:54.996 --> 2:12:57.756 he does, so maybe I'll learned something about podcasting doing 2:12:57.796 --> 2:13:00.516 something with him. Yeah, it seems like y'all don't ever 2:13:00.596 --> 2:13:02.836 have to worry about guess so I was I was 2:13:02.916 --> 2:13:05.996 kind of cramming. I was listening Andre episode. I was 2:13:06.076 --> 2:13:10.836 just about to say, like, yeah, that was like saying, 2:13:10.916 --> 2:13:12.996 especially when y'all talked about like beyond moments. We were 2:13:13.276 --> 2:13:15.076 had made a note about that and the moments that 2:13:15.116 --> 2:13:18.116 are just beyond and you were talking about how just 2:13:18.156 --> 2:13:20.196 these moments in your life where it's like if you 2:13:20.196 --> 2:13:22.476 did not do one thing, these other things wouldn't happen, 2:13:22.516 --> 2:13:25.476 like if you would have stayed in Chicago. Chicago right back, 2:13:25.516 --> 2:13:30.436 we were listening together. Yeah, yeah, we we have a 2:13:30.476 --> 2:13:34.876 lot of mutual friends in common. So just hearing of 2:13:34.996 --> 2:13:41.436 your evolution, your spiritual evolution, your physical evolution. You know, 2:13:41.476 --> 2:13:47.236 you've been definitely kind of a life goal mission for 2:13:47.316 --> 2:13:49.756 me at least where you are with your life and everything, 2:13:49.796 --> 2:13:52.876 Like what's your daily routine and I know like surfing 2:13:52.916 --> 2:13:55.596 has played a part of it and all that stuff. 2:13:56.116 --> 2:13:58.916 In Kawai now, I've been doing a ninety minute walk 2:13:59.076 --> 2:14:01.796 every morning on the beach barefoot, a lot of sun 2:14:02.196 --> 2:14:06.076 and listening to podcasts that ninety minutes, that's that's where 2:14:06.076 --> 2:14:08.876 I listened to you. If I listened to one of 2:14:08.876 --> 2:14:10.836 your pieces, it'll be while I'm walking on the beach. 2:14:11.396 --> 2:14:13.836 And that's the very first thing every day, and I 2:14:13.876 --> 2:14:15.756 get that out of the way and then I can 2:14:17.116 --> 2:14:19.156 start focusing on work or whatever else there is to 2:14:19.196 --> 2:14:21.396 do for the rest of the day. But I feel 2:14:21.396 --> 2:14:24.316 like having that right when I wake up, because if 2:14:24.356 --> 2:14:29.236 I wait, if I wait an hour, I won't do it. 2:14:29.436 --> 2:14:34.556 Facts that's me. And if I wait an hour, not 2:14:34.636 --> 2:14:38.516 only will I won't do it, I'll eat. You do something, Yeah, 2:14:38.596 --> 2:14:41.036 you do some I'll definitely eat because if I'm sitting 2:14:41.036 --> 2:14:43.916 around and I'm hungry, if I'm walking for ninety minutes, 2:14:43.956 --> 2:14:45.996 I'm not thinking about food because I'm involved in the 2:14:46.036 --> 2:14:49.756 podcast or book on tape and I'm walking and enjoying 2:14:49.756 --> 2:14:54.476 myself and my mind is completely occupied because I'm very 2:14:54.556 --> 2:14:57.476 you know, I listen to things that I'm interested in 2:14:57.516 --> 2:14:59.876 and learn stuff, and it's great. I look forward to 2:14:59.876 --> 2:15:01.996 it every day. I feel like I run out of time, 2:15:02.076 --> 2:15:04.316 you know, Like I listened in the car on the way, 2:15:04.636 --> 2:15:06.996 I listen on the beach walk, I listen on the 2:15:06.996 --> 2:15:09.476 way back and then usually I have stuff to do 2:15:09.676 --> 2:15:12.516 to start my day and it's like, but I have 2:15:12.636 --> 2:15:14.356 so much more research to do, I have so many 2:15:14.396 --> 2:15:17.916 more things to listen to, and I run out of time. Yeah, 2:15:17.956 --> 2:15:20.996 thats quarantine been like for you? Rick? What is what 2:15:21.196 --> 2:15:24.316 changes quarantine like? Just kind of how we're in quarantine 2:15:24.356 --> 2:15:26.236 now and kind of be in lockdown. What is that 2:15:26.556 --> 2:15:29.276 like for you? It hasn't changed so much other than 2:15:29.316 --> 2:15:31.516 the fact that we're in Kawaii because normally we wouldn't 2:15:31.516 --> 2:15:33.996 normally be in Kawhi now, we'd be in Malibu, but 2:15:34.116 --> 2:15:38.796 because Malibu is locked down, Kawhi is lockdown. Two. We 2:15:38.796 --> 2:15:42.316 were here in over the holidays and we were going 2:15:42.396 --> 2:15:44.316 back to start I was going back to start a 2:15:44.316 --> 2:15:48.116 new Abot Brothers album first week of March, and then 2:15:48.476 --> 2:15:53.956 I got a call days before saying, hey, stuff's getting sketchy. 2:15:53.996 --> 2:15:56.836 We're thinking maybe we should just stay home. And it's like, perfect, 2:15:56.956 --> 2:16:00.116 I'm staying here. You guys stay home. Let's you know, 2:16:00.516 --> 2:16:03.716 let's wait a minute and figure out what's happening. And 2:16:03.836 --> 2:16:07.276 that leads us to today. How severe is it in 2:16:07.436 --> 2:16:10.716 Hawaii right now? As far there are no cases on 2:16:10.716 --> 2:16:15.476 the island, which is unbelievable this island. There are seven 2:16:15.516 --> 2:16:19.276 islands of Kawaii. They're you know, half hour flight apart. 2:16:20.236 --> 2:16:23.276 But this, this one has done. And Kauahi has like 2:16:23.436 --> 2:16:27.836 a lower population. Yes, it's very few people and they're 2:16:27.876 --> 2:16:31.716 far apart, and it's a great place to be on quarantine. Again, 2:16:31.876 --> 2:16:34.276 we if we weren't here, I don't think we would 2:16:34.276 --> 2:16:36.196 have come here for it. But the fact that we 2:16:36.196 --> 2:16:40.516 were here and the opportunity arose seemed like a good choice. 2:16:40.596 --> 2:16:45.916 The universe again was smiling on us. Yet still those uh, 2:16:45.956 --> 2:16:49.676 those dogs, I saw you once with the dogs with 2:16:49.796 --> 2:16:54.636 the mop I have won. His name is Chompa. I 2:16:54.716 --> 2:16:59.316 had two before him named. The current dog's name is Clo. 2:17:00.196 --> 2:17:04.116 The two prior were Chompa and Monday. Chump and Monday 2:17:04.156 --> 2:17:10.436 passed away at eighteen nineteen years old. And now Chompa 2:17:10.716 --> 2:17:17.596 is Monday's brother, brother's son. I think so in the family, 2:17:18.916 --> 2:17:21.156 and he was probably twelve. Now, it wasn't a pack 2:17:21.196 --> 2:17:23.356 of them, I could have sworn a seem like a 2:17:23.516 --> 2:17:26.116 family of them. I hope you before. Now I have 2:17:26.196 --> 2:17:29.076 one I saw one and then the other one. The 2:17:29.116 --> 2:17:31.996 other would follow wherever one would go. Okay, I remember 2:17:31.996 --> 2:17:34.676 that Yeah, I want to know. Man, do you still 2:17:35.036 --> 2:17:39.076 when you're working out your ideas? Are you like still 2:17:39.236 --> 2:17:41.796 making tracks or does it start on an instrument? How 2:17:41.836 --> 2:17:43.716 do you flesh out the ideas that you may have. 2:17:44.476 --> 2:17:46.516 It really depends. I don't. I don't do it for 2:17:46.556 --> 2:17:48.716 the sake of doing it. So it's more like if 2:17:48.756 --> 2:17:52.156 there's a reason to make something, if there's a from 2:17:52.196 --> 2:17:54.156 working on a project that needs a piece of music 2:17:54.196 --> 2:17:56.396 that needs to start with me, which I'd prefer not 2:17:56.476 --> 2:18:00.436 to do. I like, I like collaborating. I like hearing 2:18:00.516 --> 2:18:03.876 something and finding pieces that I could make into the 2:18:03.876 --> 2:18:06.116 thing that I want to make, as opposed to starting 2:18:06.116 --> 2:18:08.196 from scratch. I have to start from scratch, I can, 2:18:08.636 --> 2:18:12.036 but it's out my favorite thing to do. And if 2:18:12.076 --> 2:18:14.276 it is, I'll either make a beat on a drum machine, 2:18:14.476 --> 2:18:17.396 or I'll start with a sample and then build up 2:18:17.396 --> 2:18:20.916 a track around the sample and then either keep the 2:18:20.956 --> 2:18:25.196 sample in, remove the sample, mess with the sample. Yeah, 2:18:25.316 --> 2:18:28.396 are you using like Ableton or like what software? We 2:18:28.476 --> 2:18:31.116 usually do everything in pro tools, although it's still you know, 2:18:31.196 --> 2:18:33.436 just still out of you know, I don't know any 2:18:33.476 --> 2:18:35.076 better and I don't know how to ren pro tools. 2:18:35.196 --> 2:18:37.276 I don't really I'm not a technical person at all. 2:18:37.756 --> 2:18:39.876 I just can say I like it, like this, let's 2:18:39.956 --> 2:18:42.876 change this beat. When you take on a project, do 2:18:42.916 --> 2:18:45.516 you stay on that project or are you able to 2:18:46.236 --> 2:18:50.036 hop from project to project? Like Okay, I'm gonna work 2:18:50.036 --> 2:18:52.996 where Chili Pepper is at the studio on Monday, and 2:18:53.036 --> 2:18:56.516 then running do the Dixie Chicks next week over there 2:18:56.556 --> 2:18:59.236 and blah blah blah, like or are you just a 2:19:00.036 --> 2:19:04.076 I do you? You hire me? And if it's over 2:19:04.156 --> 2:19:07.636 three months, then we're in trouble, Like how do you 2:19:07.716 --> 2:19:13.236 schedule the first one? Because it's I don't think it's 2:19:13.276 --> 2:19:17.476 possible to say we're gonna put three months on hold 2:19:17.516 --> 2:19:19.116 and in that three months we're gonna make the best 2:19:19.156 --> 2:19:22.196 album the world has ever heard. I don't. I don't. 2:19:22.316 --> 2:19:24.716 I don't believe in that. I don't believe it's possible. 2:19:25.036 --> 2:19:27.196 Maybe some people can do it. I don't know. I 2:19:27.236 --> 2:19:30.396 don't know how that works. So every project has its 2:19:30.436 --> 2:19:34.316 own rhythm, and as I said, sometimes it happens very quickly. 2:19:34.756 --> 2:19:38.676 Sometimes it takes a long time, and I don't I 2:19:38.916 --> 2:19:44.756 try not to do it as much as possible based 2:19:44.796 --> 2:19:47.556 on my schedule. It's always about the artist schedule. And 2:19:47.596 --> 2:19:49.596 when I say the artist schedule, I don't mean the 2:19:49.716 --> 2:19:52.796 artist schedule of when they want to go on vacation. 2:19:52.916 --> 2:19:58.556 I mean the artist schedule of when the idea is hot, 2:19:59.036 --> 2:20:03.796 you know, when the songs are ready. We have to 2:20:03.836 --> 2:20:07.716 find a way that when the moment is right to 2:20:07.836 --> 2:20:10.916 make it, that we can make take it. And I 2:20:10.956 --> 2:20:14.156 can think of very few times in my life where 2:20:14.196 --> 2:20:16.316 it hasn't worked out where at a time I might 2:20:16.316 --> 2:20:19.716 have been making five albums at the same time, back 2:20:19.716 --> 2:20:21.156 in the days when I would have to go from 2:20:21.156 --> 2:20:26.916 studio to studio. It might be We're doing overdubs with 2:20:26.956 --> 2:20:29.996 this artist and I'm working on just vocals with another 2:20:30.116 --> 2:20:33.556 artist on a different album at a at the same time. 2:20:33.596 --> 2:20:37.076 Maybe I do noon to noon to three with one 2:20:37.196 --> 2:20:40.916 artist and three to six with another artist that way, 2:20:41.036 --> 2:20:43.436 or maybe I'm doing pre production with one and working 2:20:43.436 --> 2:20:45.876 on mixing with another, and it could be as many 2:20:45.876 --> 2:20:48.356 as four or five or six going on same time. 2:20:48.356 --> 2:20:50.556 It's not unusual because some of them could go on 2:20:50.676 --> 2:20:56.236 for years, you know. You I work with engineers, and 2:20:56.436 --> 2:21:00.556 each project usually I try to have an engineer dedicated 2:21:00.596 --> 2:21:05.396 to that particular project, like a tag team partner. So 2:21:05.516 --> 2:21:08.596 and also I like to work like in the old 2:21:08.676 --> 2:21:10.756 days that you to work all night, drive home as 2:21:10.756 --> 2:21:13.516 the sun was coming up. Now I'm on an early schedule, 2:21:14.036 --> 2:21:15.836 so I like to have the sessions start at like 2:21:15.916 --> 2:21:19.556 noon or one, and I like to be done by six. 2:21:20.036 --> 2:21:22.196 Now that doesn't mean like on the Strokes album which 2:21:23.236 --> 2:21:26.676 we just made recently, just came out three weeks ago 2:21:26.756 --> 2:21:33.116 or something. I would come from noon to six, and 2:21:33.156 --> 2:21:38.036 then I would leave a list to do list so 2:21:38.076 --> 2:21:40.716 the band could go on working as late as midnight 2:21:40.756 --> 2:21:42.476 if they you know, they band could work as long 2:21:42.516 --> 2:21:44.836 as they want and have a list of things to 2:21:44.876 --> 2:21:47.036 do in addition to anything that they would want to 2:21:47.036 --> 2:21:49.556 try on their own. And then the next morning I 2:21:49.596 --> 2:21:51.876 would come in, we would review what happened the night before, 2:21:51.956 --> 2:21:54.676 and then we would start on the day's work. I 2:21:54.796 --> 2:21:58.476 gotta try it, yeah, And I've also, by making a 2:21:58.476 --> 2:22:02.276 lot of albums, have come to realize when my voice 2:22:02.316 --> 2:22:07.636 is particularly helpful in the process, and sometimes it's in 2:22:07.676 --> 2:22:10.476 pre production, it means a lot. In the basic track, 2:22:10.516 --> 2:22:13.236 it means a lot. Getting the vocals, it means a lot. 2:22:13.836 --> 2:22:19.316 But many of the other times, during overdubs, during guitar solos, 2:22:20.556 --> 2:22:22.716 I usually if I trust the artist. I let them 2:22:22.716 --> 2:22:23.996 do it, and then I might come in, like with 2:22:24.036 --> 2:22:27.236 Tom Morello, if we're doing on either a rage record 2:22:27.276 --> 2:22:30.716 or an audio slave record, he'll do solos on everything, 2:22:30.756 --> 2:22:32.516 and then I might come and say, you know, those 2:22:32.556 --> 2:22:34.596 are all great and this one's not as good like 2:22:34.676 --> 2:22:38.756 we gotta and then maybe redo this, or if there's 2:22:38.756 --> 2:22:40.836 ever ones where it's like, let's work on this one 2:22:40.876 --> 2:22:43.236 together for some reason. If if you can't crack the 2:22:43.276 --> 2:22:45.636 code on his own, then we'll do it together. But 2:22:45.796 --> 2:22:48.956 I don't like to hold an artist's hand. I don't 2:22:49.036 --> 2:22:54.516 like to. Ultimately, if the artist feels like they've done 2:22:54.556 --> 2:22:59.676 everything themselves, that's the best feeling for me. Like I 2:22:59.716 --> 2:23:01.756 don't want I don't want it to I don't want 2:23:01.756 --> 2:23:06.916 the process to be about me life lessons. I want 2:23:06.916 --> 2:23:10.636 and only life lessons proving don't make it about you 2:23:10.796 --> 2:23:15.156 and walk first thing in the morning. I don't want 2:23:15.196 --> 2:23:19.316 the process to be ugly for you. See that's the 2:23:19.356 --> 2:23:22.916 one thing because you know who downstairs always says, see 2:23:23.996 --> 2:23:26.076 walks early in the morning, and you don't do that. 2:23:26.796 --> 2:23:28.596 So now I'm gonna have to wake my ass up 2:23:28.596 --> 2:23:33.076 for six and you wake up. Your first thing is 2:23:33.316 --> 2:23:36.396 doing because I'll create a bunch of excuses I have 2:23:36.516 --> 2:23:39.156 to get up at six and walk. All right, thank you, Rick. 2:23:39.316 --> 2:23:42.876 I will now reach my goal of two twenty pounds. 2:23:43.596 --> 2:23:48.556 I'm gonna walk because Rick said, Because Rick said so. Anyway, Rick, dude, 2:23:48.596 --> 2:23:50.916 this is this has been what like four years in 2:23:50.956 --> 2:23:58.356 the making. Yes, exactly today. I have a suggestion quest, 2:23:59.476 --> 2:24:04.276 which is every day for the next let's make it 2:24:04.956 --> 2:24:09.236 three weeks. When you go on your walk, just let 2:24:09.316 --> 2:24:11.756 me a message at the end saying I walked this 2:24:11.796 --> 2:24:15.116 along today. Just just a little check in, like, hey, 2:24:15.196 --> 2:24:18.476 did this today? Accountability? I will do so. Yes, just 2:24:18.676 --> 2:24:24.236 about accountability, partner, I'm about accountability, and I'm about integrity, 2:24:24.396 --> 2:24:29.116 life coach. Yes, about integrity. Two twenty is right around 2:24:29.156 --> 2:24:31.036 the bend. I'm ready for this ship than you can 2:24:31.116 --> 2:24:33.156 send a group text to all of us and we'll go, Yeah, 2:24:33.156 --> 2:24:37.356 we finished ours too, y'all gonna be a sue all right. 2:24:37.436 --> 2:24:46.836 So I'm the half of the half of Sugar Steve. 2:24:47.716 --> 2:24:54.796 I'm paid bill by Fontigolo and be great incomparable, Rick Rubin, 2:24:55.396 --> 2:24:57.836 four years we've been dying for this. My name is 2:24:57.916 --> 2:25:00.196 quess Love. This quests Love Supreme. We will see you 2:25:00.236 --> 2:25:19.436 on the next round. Thank you, of course. Love Supreme 2:25:19.556 --> 2:25:25.276 is a production i heart Radio. For more podcasts from 2:25:25.276 --> 2:25:29.156 my heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or 2:25:29.156 --> 2:25:30.796 wherever you listen to your favorite shows.