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Speaker 1: Pushkin. Hey guys, I'm excited to share a little something

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Speaker 1: different with you all. Rick Rubin doesn't sit for a

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Speaker 1: lot of interviews outside a broken record, so when he

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Speaker 1: got with Questlove to tape an episode of his podcast,

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Speaker 1: Questlove Supreme, we thought we'd bring it to you here too.

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Speaker 1: Of course, you know Questlove from his many ventures from

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Speaker 1: the Roots to The Tonight Show and a thousand other things.

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Speaker 1: But if you heard him on our season two opener,

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Speaker 1: you know there are a few people who love talking

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Speaker 1: music as much as Quest It makes his podcast a

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Speaker 1: joy to listen to. So after checking out this episode

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Speaker 1: with Rick Rubin, be sure to go and subscribe and

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Speaker 1: check out other episodes of Questlove Supreme. Enjoy. Questlove Supreme

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Speaker 1: is a production of iHeartRadio. Ladies and gentlemen, Welcome to

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Speaker 1: another episode of Love Supreme. My name's Questlove. We're here

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Speaker 1: today with Layah Sugar, Steve Unpaid, Bill and Von Tigelow. Hello.

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Speaker 1: I will say that our guest today is world Renown.

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Speaker 1: He's a world renown reducer. Those are his words, not

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Speaker 1: my words. World Renown reducerum from establishing one of the

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Speaker 1: greatest hip hop labels in history, def Champ to working

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Speaker 1: with all the greats from right out Chili Pepper, Tom Petty,

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Speaker 1: There's Slayer, there's the Cult, there's Kanye West, There's Dixie Chicks,

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Speaker 1: There's Mick Jagger, There's Neil Diamond, there's uh the Roots.

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Speaker 1: I'm putting it out there anyway. Please welcome the Guru

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Speaker 1: of music to Quest Love Supreme, the one in Oman,

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Speaker 1: Rick Rubin, Thank you for doing us our show today. Finally,

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Speaker 1: where are you? Where are you currently right now? Rick?

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Speaker 1: I am right now in Kawaii on lockdown. Is that's

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Speaker 1: a place to be on lockdown? Do you consider is

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Speaker 1: that home for you? Or is it just like Okay,

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Speaker 1: if I have to be on lockdown, I'd rather be

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Speaker 1: in this particular environment. We mainly live in Malibu and

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Speaker 1: spend some time here, usually in the winter, and this

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Speaker 1: year the winter extended because of the lockdown, so it

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Speaker 1: seemed like a better place to be on lockdown. Ah, Okay.

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Speaker 1: Are you able to operate under your sort of your

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Speaker 1: creative guys at least in Kawaii or are all your

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Speaker 1: toys in La Toys or in La But we have

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Speaker 1: a setup here that's working working well. You have you

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Speaker 1: have an extensive history so I was debating with myself

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Speaker 1: whether or not to do the normal chronological thing or

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Speaker 1: should we just go kama kazi because there's so many

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Speaker 1: stories I want to learn about your production, but I

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Speaker 1: do want to know about your introduction to me. First

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Speaker 1: of all, where were you born? Long Beach, Long Island?

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Speaker 1: Long Beach, Long Island? Is that where you're born on?

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Speaker 1: Pay Bill? No, I was just born on Long Island.

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Speaker 1: Shout out to Long Island. Okay, all right, Birds of

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Speaker 1: a Feather, that's cool. What was your the very first

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Speaker 1: record that you purchased? I remember buying. I don't remember

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Speaker 1: what was the first one, but I remember the experience

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Speaker 1: of buying seven inches. I can remember shopping for forty

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Speaker 1: fives in Times Square store in Oceanside, and Snoopy Versus

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Speaker 1: the Red Baron may have been one of them, but

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Speaker 1: I don't I don't remember exactly what the record was.

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Speaker 1: What was what was the moment that you realized that, okay,

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Speaker 1: I'd like a space in the music world, or that's

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Speaker 1: what I want to do. I don't know that I

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Speaker 1: ever had that feeling. I mean, I knew that I

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Speaker 1: loved it, and I knew that it would be a

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Speaker 1: huge part of my life. But I never thought it

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Speaker 1: would be my job. Really, Okay, I didn't think that

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Speaker 1: was a I didn't think that was a realistic possibility.

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Speaker 1: I was going to have a real job and that

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Speaker 1: would support my music, have it. What were you planning

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Speaker 1: on becoming? I was on track. My parents had me

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Speaker 1: on a track to be a lawyer. That would have

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Speaker 1: been there. There wish, their wish would have either been

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Speaker 1: a doctor or a lawyer. And I was always afraid

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Speaker 1: of blood. I don't know. And then I thought, oh, well,

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Speaker 1: there are lawyers involved in the music industry, so maybe

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Speaker 1: I could be involved in that way because i'd have

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Speaker 1: to have a job. But my real love is music.

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Speaker 1: But I didn't know anyone who did music as a job.

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Speaker 1: I didn't think that was a real thing. What were

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Speaker 1: your parents? My dad was a businessman, store owner, my

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Speaker 1: mom was a housewife. Is Rick Rubin your birth name?

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Speaker 1: Frederick J. Rubin is the name I was born with,

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Speaker 1: But I was called Rick from the time I was

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Speaker 1: a kid. No one, no one ever called me anything else. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: you would have been a Ruben attorney at law. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's why that's a the lawyers there. Okay, I get it.

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Speaker 1: I know there's there's a story that I heard about

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Speaker 1: once performing at CBGB's and it was less than desirable,

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Speaker 1: and I believe the end result was your father coming

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Speaker 1: down from Long Island, but he was dressed as a cop.

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Speaker 1: Did I make up that story in my mind or something.

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Speaker 1: I don't remember ever telling that story, but the story

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Speaker 1: is around and it may be rooted in something that

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Speaker 1: actually happened. I have a vague memory of it, but

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Speaker 1: I don't remember. I can't. I can't remember telling the story,

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Speaker 1: but I think it might have happened. I think. I

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Speaker 1: think the story that I heard was that you were

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Speaker 1: in a band called the Pricks. I believe, and either

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Speaker 1: it's kind of like you know, a modern showed time

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Speaker 1: at the Apollo story where the opening actor or another

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Speaker 1: act brings all their fans down. They were heckling you guys.

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Speaker 1: You guys only did like two songs, and then to

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Speaker 1: give revenge on the other band, your dad came down

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Speaker 1: dressed as a cop, trying to shut the show down

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Speaker 1: or something like that. Nothing, nothing like that happened. That

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Speaker 1: was Yeah, that's not a story. I didn't know where

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Speaker 1: that was an urban legend or for real, that's that's

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Speaker 1: an urban legend. But in the sort of theatrical punk

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Speaker 1: rock pandemonium of making a show more exciting. It is

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Speaker 1: possible that my dad dressed as a cop to stop

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Speaker 1: the show, our show, not to affect anyone else, because

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Speaker 1: it would have. It just created a something. I can

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Speaker 1: remember the time we did a show where we worked

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Speaker 1: it out for the sprinkler, the fire sprinklers to go

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Speaker 1: off during the show and just create a general sense

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Speaker 1: of pandemonium in the room. And what were you were you? Um,

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Speaker 1: what instrument did you play in the band? Guitar? Are

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Speaker 1: you guitarist? Okay, I did, I was not. I wouldn't

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Speaker 1: say I was a guitarist, but I played the guitar.

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Speaker 1: You played the guitar. Being being is that we rarely

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Speaker 1: get guested on the show that we're really really of

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Speaker 1: the age, and I mean like in their in their

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Speaker 1: early twenties, at least in New York City, much as

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Speaker 1: much as made about the legend of what night nightlife

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Speaker 1: culture was in New York City. And because you had

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Speaker 1: like one foot plan in CBGB's I don't know about

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Speaker 1: your history or dancy teria or those hip hop clubs

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Speaker 1: at the time, but He just briefly described what the

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Speaker 1: environment was like in the first half of the eighties

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Speaker 1: as far as club life is concerned, Like, do you

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Speaker 1: see it with fond memories now? Was it the best

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Speaker 1: time ever? Are you one of those people that are

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Speaker 1: like ah Man New York in the early eighties, there's

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Speaker 1: nothing like it ever, like these romanticized feelings about it. Yes,

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Speaker 1: it was an incredible time and we would go out

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Speaker 1: every night and there was very little hip hop at

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Speaker 1: that time. You couldn't really see hip hop. You could

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Speaker 1: only see hip hop one night a week. But we

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Speaker 1: went out every night and you would see um. There

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Speaker 1: was a thriving dance music scene that would have had

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Speaker 1: like groups like Liquid Liquid and ESG and conk. Oh Wow,

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Speaker 1: you got to see them in person, all everybody. I

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Speaker 1: saw every What were they like? I'd incredible? Like ESG?

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Speaker 1: What were they like? It was just all around the base.

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Speaker 1: It was sort of like a if you think about

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Speaker 1: it looking back, it would be you'd say it was

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Speaker 1: a pretty boring show. But the group was incredible. But

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Speaker 1: it wasn't like a show. Wasn't a show like a

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Speaker 1: putting on a show. It was like people in a

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Speaker 1: band standing on stage and playing their songs, so it

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Speaker 1: wasn't theatrical in any way, esg As I recall I

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Speaker 1: think I saw them play at Danceteria. If I remember correctly,

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Speaker 1: wow wow. But you we would go like, if a

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Speaker 1: band was playing at Irving Plaza, we'd go to Irving Plaza.

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Speaker 1: If the band was playing at the Mud Club, we'd

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Speaker 1: go to the Mud Club. Maxis, Kansas City. I caught

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Speaker 1: the tail end of Maxis Kansas City. I saw James

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Speaker 1: White and the Blacks play there. I saw Devo play there.

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Speaker 1: I saw Wayne County maybe Jane County at that time.

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Speaker 1: I saw so many great shows. I saw The Bad

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Speaker 1: Brains play at CBGB's. I saw the Bad Brains play

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Speaker 1: at Irving Plaza. I saw a Minor Threat play at

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Speaker 1: Irving Plaza. I saw the Cramps, which was my very

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Speaker 1: first technically punk rock show at Irving Plaza. And then

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Speaker 1: there'd be a gig at the garden. I remember seeing

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Speaker 1: David Bowie at Madison Square Garden in the same night

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Speaker 1: seeing the Bad Brains after at CBGB's. That would be

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Speaker 1: a typical it was. It was an incredible time to

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Speaker 1: be a fan of music, and there was both this

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Speaker 1: live performance scene of music, and then there was also

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Speaker 1: this incredible dance music scene with places like Dance Interia.

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Speaker 1: Then Area the garage was still going on, so really

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Speaker 1: you could you could get very different experiences, even on

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Speaker 1: the same night, going from club to club. And then

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Speaker 1: when hip hop started bubbling, the only place you could

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Speaker 1: really see it downtown was at a grille, which was

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Speaker 1: a reggae club on Avenue A. I believe I remember correctly.

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Speaker 1: I think it was either sadly first restaurant. I was

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Speaker 1: about to say that it was down a flight of stairs.

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Speaker 1: Is it still there, Yeah, it's still there, but it's

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Speaker 1: open shadow of what it shadow of what it used

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Speaker 1: to be. But that's the place that I used to

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Speaker 1: go to see Jazzy J and Uh Africa Islam and

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Speaker 1: Busy B and Treacherous Three and everybody played there. And

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Speaker 1: it was one night a week Tuesday, KLB Production School

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Speaker 1: Lady Blue, and then when it got big, After it

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Speaker 1: got big, then they moved it to the Roxy and

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Speaker 1: that was one night a week at the Rocks. I

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Speaker 1: went to the Roxy the first night every it was

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Speaker 1: hip hop and it was this giant roller rink with

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Speaker 1: maybe I don't know, there were maybe fifty of us

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Speaker 1: there for the first night, and then it ended up

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Speaker 1: just watching it grow every week and get bigger and

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Speaker 1: bigger and bigger until it became what it became. You know,

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Speaker 1: So I know about your dorm being def Jam's headquarters,

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Speaker 1: But what was your major at NYU when you were attending.

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Speaker 1: I started as a philosophy major, and after two years

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Speaker 1: I switched to film and television because, as I said,

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Speaker 1: I was planning on going to law school. You don't

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Speaker 1: need a particular undergrad the degree you have undergraduate degree

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Speaker 1: doesn't matter to get into law school. And most of

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Speaker 1: my friends that I liked hanging out with were in

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Speaker 1: film school and that just seemed more fun than the

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Speaker 1: liberal arts side that I was that I started on,

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Speaker 1: so I just switched over. Since it didn't matter what

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Speaker 1: year was def Jam as a punk label started first. Wait,

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Speaker 1: year eighty three eighty four or something like that. What

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Speaker 1: were the who were the artist on the label? At

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Speaker 1: the time, there only records that I made of my

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Speaker 1: own band. All there was was hoes Hos and there

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Speaker 1: was a twelve inch and a seven inch, a twelve

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Speaker 1: inch EP and a seven inch That's all there was.

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Speaker 1: And then I made my first hip hop record, which

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Speaker 1: was It's Yours which and I'll tell you the story

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Speaker 1: of how that came about because it's interesting. If you

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Speaker 1: want to again, if you want to hear it, Ye, yes, yes,

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Speaker 1: we're rabbit Hole Central. We're waiting. My favorite group at

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Speaker 1: the time were The Treacherous Three. And I didn't know

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Speaker 1: anything at all about the record business. I didn't know

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Speaker 1: that there were I didn't know what a producer did.

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Speaker 1: I didn't know that there were record companies. I didn't

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Speaker 1: know that people had contracts. I literally knew nothing other

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Speaker 1: than I love music more than anything. I read everything

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Speaker 1: I could read about music. I read even Billboard, which

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Speaker 1: was a weird thing for a kid to read when

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Speaker 1: I was even in sixth grade seventh grade. I would

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Speaker 1: read Billboard just because there might be a little story

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Speaker 1: about an artist I liked. And it never made like

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Speaker 1: I was never really interested in what it said, but

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Speaker 1: I just wanted to learn anything there was to learn

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Speaker 1: about anyone that I liked in music, So if I

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Speaker 1: saw their name in an article, I had to read it.

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Speaker 1: I reached out to after the show at the Grille,

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Speaker 1: I reached out to Kumod. Kumodi was my favorite MC,

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Speaker 1: and I gave him my number and I said, let's

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Speaker 1: get together and chat. Now, Kumodi was going to school

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Speaker 1: on Long Island, so they were all like college age

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Speaker 1: at this time. And then Kumod came to visit me

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Speaker 1: at the dorm. That was my first attempt at being

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Speaker 1: involved in this thing that I loved. And I said.

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Speaker 1: They had been making records on Enjoy Records, which I loved,

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Speaker 1: and then they may their first the first thing that

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Speaker 1: came out, if I remember correctly, I'm not sure the

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Speaker 1: timing of this, but I heard a treacherous three song

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Speaker 1: that I thought wasn't as good as all the ones

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Speaker 1: that I liked. Was it? Yes, we Can Can on

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Speaker 1: Sugar Hill might have been. I didn't like that, Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: so I might have been. So as a fan, I said,

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Speaker 1: let's get together. I just want to talk to you

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Speaker 1: about this music. You know, I'm a fan. I want

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Speaker 1: to talk to you. And then I said, and again

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Speaker 1: I was I had great confidence in my taste just

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Speaker 1: because I really, you know, I truly felt it with

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Speaker 1: all of my heart. And this was at a time

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Speaker 1: when not a lot of people were listening to this music.

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Speaker 1: It was a tiny underground scene at the time. You

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Speaker 1: have to keep in mind this is there were the

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Speaker 1: first round of death Jam records. We might have pressed up,

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Speaker 1: you know, three thousand copies. You know that might be

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Speaker 1: the starting run of a record. So that's how big

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Speaker 1: the world of hip hop was at that time. By

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Speaker 1: this point, is this pre or post it's yours? Like,

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Speaker 1: what was this about you that he's leading up? This

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Speaker 1: is leading up to it. There's no I've done nothing.

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Speaker 1: Oh so he just he just befriended you on trust,

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Speaker 1: not knowing anything about your No, he didn't even befriend

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Speaker 1: me on trust. He's just like somebody cares in a

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Speaker 1: time when nobody cares. Understand, it was a tiny little

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Speaker 1: world that nobody was interested in. I was interested. I

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Speaker 1: could speak about it with passion because I had that passion.

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Speaker 1: So there weren't that many heads at that moment in time.

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Speaker 1: So I get together with Komodi and I say, Okay,

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Speaker 1: the records you made on enjoy a great. Now there's

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Speaker 1: this new thing. It's not as good as the rest.

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Speaker 1: Let's figure out together. I'm your fan. I don't want

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Speaker 1: it to go that way. I don't want it to

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Speaker 1: get worse. Let's figure out how to make it get better,

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Speaker 1: and let's figure out I swear it's true. Let's figure

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Speaker 1: out how to do this. And he said, I would

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Speaker 1: love to do this, but I can't do this. We're

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Speaker 1: signed to sugar Hill. I didn't again, I had no idea.

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Speaker 1: I didn't know anything. I didn't know what a producer was.

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Speaker 1: I didn't know that there were contracts. But he said,

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Speaker 1: we're signed to sugar Hill, but you should talk to

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Speaker 1: Special K. He's in the group, and he writes he

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Speaker 1: might have an idea. So he introduced me to Special K,

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Speaker 1: got together a Special K, and Special K said, okay,

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Speaker 1: I like the idea. And I was already programming beats,

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Speaker 1: so I played him some beats on my eight o eight.

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Speaker 1: Special K said, okay, I wrote, I just wrote this

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Speaker 1: record called It's yours. I can't do it because I'm

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Speaker 1: signed to sugar Hill. But Ti Lara can do it.

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Speaker 1: He's we're related. And that's the way it really happened,

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Speaker 1: by me wanting to work with Treacherous three, them saying

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Speaker 1: me not knowing I me not knowing anything about the business,

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Speaker 1: and then basically saying, this is the guy who can

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Speaker 1: do this song. And Special K wrote the lyrics it was.

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Speaker 1: It was essentially like a special K solo record lyrically

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Speaker 1: what and even lyrically that was really ahead of his

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Speaker 1: time even back then. It was incredible. Minute was the story?

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Speaker 1: It's yours? Wait, Rick, are you even familiar about the

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Speaker 1: Teela Rock situation right now? I've heard a little bit recently. Nah,

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Speaker 1: what's going on? It's in Okay. I won't do anything.

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Speaker 1: I won't do any justice to the story. I'll just

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Speaker 1: say that if you google Tela Rock. GQ magazine. GQ magazine,

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Speaker 1: damn near gave Tela Rock a seven page feature story,

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Speaker 1: long story short. I meet this woman, this like uh,

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Speaker 1: this high society, hoity toity, upscale woman from the West Side,

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Speaker 1: and she comes to me and says, hey, I'm doing

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Speaker 1: finger like the woman the woman in Wild Style, like

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Speaker 1: totally a fish out of water, or a white woman

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Speaker 1: comes to me and says, hey, I'm doing a biopic

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Speaker 1: or rapper Tela Rock, And already I'm turned. I'm like, okay,

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Speaker 1: he's trying to scam you, Like, okay, whatever, biopick. I'm like,

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Speaker 1: what is it about Titla Rock that deserves a biopic?

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Speaker 1: Three years later, there's a story in GQ magazine that

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Speaker 1: I didn't know which Basically, he went into a coma

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Speaker 1: and because he had no id or anything on him,

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Speaker 1: think of like Michael Jackson's character on The Simpsons. He

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Speaker 1: winds up in this old folks home in the Bronx.

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Speaker 1: They don't know who he is, or he doesn't know

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Speaker 1: who he is, knows nothing. I think it about in

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Speaker 1: months or so, his family finally locates him, but he's

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Speaker 1: comfortable with his life at this old folks home. And

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Speaker 1: now they have to exp plaining to him who he was.

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Speaker 1: You were once, you were the first rapper. That's a

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Speaker 1: brutal attack. A mirror too that happen now. But the

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Speaker 1: headline is the man who forgot he was a rap ledger, right,

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Speaker 1: which is pretty great. Right. I don't know how he

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Speaker 1: got into that coma, but I do know that he

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Speaker 1: was in a coma and he didn't know who or

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Speaker 1: what he was, and he slowly had to be taught

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Speaker 1: everything about himself. But now he just has this new

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Speaker 1: life in as the young guy, as the young stud

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Speaker 1: and a nursing home. Wow. Yeah, and he likes his

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Speaker 1: life there. But it's they say that other residents are

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Speaker 1: mostly elderly Jewish and Yiddish speakers, so that must be. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: like the word about like who's this black guy in

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Speaker 1: are are missing? They're like, oh, he was once a

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Speaker 1: rapper on Russell Simmons label, like that sort it's the

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Speaker 1: craziest story you ever heard. But it's yeah, I was

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Speaker 1: forward once I've seen it. Now now I wish I

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Speaker 1: wouldn't dismissed that woman, like that movie has to be made.

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Speaker 1: That's a movie, sounds great. Yeah, that's him now, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's a crazy movie. And that's it looks exactly the same,

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Speaker 1: by the way, it's exactly what he looked like. Then

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Speaker 1: how old were you when you did that record? Twenty shit,

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Speaker 1: maybe maybe nineteen, I don't know. Yeah, and that was

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Speaker 1: just you on the on the eight away and then

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Speaker 1: what did y'all track it on? If you remember we

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Speaker 1: tracked it this There was a studio that advertised in

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Speaker 1: the Village Voice called power Play in Long Island City,

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Speaker 1: which was the cheapest studio you could go into, and

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Speaker 1: we recorded it. I recorded my punk rock band there

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Speaker 1: before and then we recorded that it's yours there and

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Speaker 1: m recorded it, you know, in a couple of hours,

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Speaker 1: pretty reading quick another piece the reason jazz J. The

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Speaker 1: reasons see lar Rock and Jazz J was again as

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Speaker 1: a fan of hip hop, as someone going to the

356
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Speaker 1: to the club. The whole idea always of the records

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Speaker 1: that I made were that the energy in the club

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Speaker 1: was a very specific thing, and the records that were

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Speaker 1: coming out didn't sound like what the club sounded like.

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Speaker 1: And I'm a fan now. Had had the record sounded

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Speaker 1: the same, I don't know that I would have ever

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Speaker 1: made a hip hop record at all, because it was

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Speaker 1: more just I want to hear this. I want to

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Speaker 1: hear what I'm hearing at the club, but nobody's making

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Speaker 1: that record. So I made it to be able to

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Speaker 1: hear it. But that's all it was. It wasn't There

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Speaker 1: was no h I had no expectation that anybody else

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Speaker 1: would like it or that it would have any success.

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Speaker 1: It was never about, you know, you could never assume

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Speaker 1: that in this little world that it was that we

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Speaker 1: were coming from. It's like anyone who was making music

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Speaker 1: at that time clearly did it out of the love

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Speaker 1: of it because it was no upside. Yeah, there was

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Speaker 1: no industry that was build nothing. There was nothing one

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Speaker 1: new and what was a fundamental difference between the club

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Speaker 1: and the and the record. What were you trying to

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Speaker 1: capture it? Was it just the I'll tell you no, okay,

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Speaker 1: because even on the acapella version of that record, in

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Speaker 1: my mind, there's a million people in the room, do

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Speaker 1: it like because you're the kyage of the he like

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Speaker 1: that that that sort of thing, like the people in

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Speaker 1: the background. Yes, how many people were in the room

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Speaker 1: when that those party noises were made? Four or five?

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Speaker 1: Five or six of us? Two times? Maybe three? Was

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Speaker 1: a Rock one of those people? Absolutely? Okay? Okay, oh

386
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Speaker 1: at yeah, me Ad Rock, probably Special K, Jazzy Jay

387
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Speaker 1: who everybody who was in this hid, maybe even the

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Speaker 1: engineer of the session, like any people we had on

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Speaker 1: hand to get the party vibe. So okay, So let

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Speaker 1: me explain how I heard what I heard different about

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Speaker 1: the club versus the records and I and a lot

392
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Speaker 1: of this has to do with me not knowing anything.

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Speaker 1: The way that rap records had been made up until

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Speaker 1: that point. Those records were made by people who had

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Speaker 1: made other records. So at the time, if you were

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Speaker 1: going to make a club record, it would be like Heartbeat,

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Speaker 1: it would be a band, it would be a band

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Speaker 1: record with a woman singing R and B. That would

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Speaker 1: be the club record. And then when the people who

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Speaker 1: didn't understand hip hop but understood making club records saw

401
00:23:49,116 --> 00:23:53,516
Speaker 1: this new thing, rap music, they thought, Okay, we'll do

402
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Speaker 1: the band doing the R and B song, and we'll

403
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Speaker 1: have the guy rap on it instead of having the

404
00:24:00,796 --> 00:24:04,676
Speaker 1: girls sing on it. And that's what hip hop records

405
00:24:04,676 --> 00:24:07,756
Speaker 1: sounded like. But that's not what the clubs sounded like.

406
00:24:08,196 --> 00:24:14,196
Speaker 1: The club sounded like DJ culture, drum machines. Maybe not

407
00:24:14,396 --> 00:24:17,476
Speaker 1: so many drum machines, but some at that point more

408
00:24:17,596 --> 00:24:20,156
Speaker 1: DJ culture. It was really about the DJ cutting it up.

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Speaker 1: So if you went to see it, if you went

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Speaker 1: to see the Treachers three live, it wasn't a band

411
00:24:26,356 --> 00:24:29,836
Speaker 1: playing their song like it was on even the Enjoy records.

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Speaker 1: It was the DJ cutting up the records with the

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Speaker 1: MC's and that's what That's how I understood hip hop,

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Speaker 1: was this homemade music with rapping. So that's and that's

415
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Speaker 1: why Jazzy why it was important for me, like I

416
00:24:49,716 --> 00:24:53,436
Speaker 1: would never want to sign, I would never think of

417
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Speaker 1: doing a tele rock record without having a DJ associated

418
00:24:58,916 --> 00:25:02,116
Speaker 1: with it, because it's like what made it hip hop

419
00:25:02,436 --> 00:25:06,116
Speaker 1: was the two of them, it was the band, you know,

420
00:25:06,396 --> 00:25:09,996
Speaker 1: together they were the Beatles, right, but himself it was

421
00:25:10,036 --> 00:25:11,836
Speaker 1: just to say it was another singer, you know, it

422
00:25:11,876 --> 00:25:15,476
Speaker 1: was Frank Sinatra. It's it's different. So I saw it

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00:25:15,556 --> 00:25:19,276
Speaker 1: as a group and the music was an important part

424
00:25:19,356 --> 00:25:24,156
Speaker 1: of for me. The DJ culture was as important as

425
00:25:24,196 --> 00:25:28,276
Speaker 1: the MC. Always it was always both. So that's and

426
00:25:28,316 --> 00:25:30,956
Speaker 1: then I and Jesse. J was my favorite DJ, and

427
00:25:30,996 --> 00:25:33,116
Speaker 1: I asked him if you would be on the record

428
00:25:33,156 --> 00:25:35,356
Speaker 1: and join the group with Special K. That's how That's

429
00:25:35,356 --> 00:25:40,196
Speaker 1: how it happened. Wow, was it hard to because you know,

430
00:25:40,236 --> 00:25:43,956
Speaker 1: the stories that I've heard from Russell's reaction to the

431
00:25:43,996 --> 00:25:46,196
Speaker 1: record was that it was hard to believe that this

432
00:25:46,316 --> 00:25:51,876
Speaker 1: white boy made such a definitive black album. So how

433
00:25:52,276 --> 00:25:55,676
Speaker 1: how how hard was it to convince people that you're

434
00:25:55,756 --> 00:25:58,876
Speaker 1: the guy that made it's yours? Like, was it a

435
00:25:58,956 --> 00:26:02,396
Speaker 1: hard sell? Or the whole thing was so strange? Like

436
00:26:02,516 --> 00:26:05,756
Speaker 1: it was the record was already a weird record, yes,

437
00:26:05,836 --> 00:26:08,716
Speaker 1: you Russell always referred to it as more black than

438
00:26:08,756 --> 00:26:13,076
Speaker 1: anything else. But to me, it was just more representative

439
00:26:13,076 --> 00:26:15,356
Speaker 1: of the club, you know, it was more like it

440
00:26:15,396 --> 00:26:19,756
Speaker 1: was like a documentary of what I experienced going to

441
00:26:19,836 --> 00:26:23,516
Speaker 1: the club. All right, So since we're talking about your

442
00:26:23,516 --> 00:26:26,476
Speaker 1: eight h eight period and I guess our listeners, it

443
00:26:26,516 --> 00:26:30,436
Speaker 1: should be noted that, really, I mean, yes, I know

444
00:26:30,516 --> 00:26:33,476
Speaker 1: that there's a tie between like you and Arthur Baker.

445
00:26:33,876 --> 00:26:37,476
Speaker 1: That Telo Rock single was like sort of a cross

446
00:26:37,516 --> 00:26:43,996
Speaker 1: between def Jam and Wasn't Start Whatever Party Time? Party

447
00:26:43,996 --> 00:26:47,916
Speaker 1: Time wasn't that one of the author Baker's offspring labels

448
00:26:47,916 --> 00:26:49,996
Speaker 1: as well? At the way, I could tell you how

449
00:26:50,036 --> 00:26:51,836
Speaker 1: that happened as well, which was I was going to

450
00:26:51,916 --> 00:26:55,356
Speaker 1: put it out independently myself, the way I put out

451
00:26:55,396 --> 00:26:58,276
Speaker 1: my punk rock records with nine nine Records, which is

452
00:26:58,316 --> 00:27:05,036
Speaker 1: a record store, really cool independent record store, Google Street, right, yeah,

453
00:27:05,116 --> 00:27:10,156
Speaker 1: GESG And they put out Bush Tetras Yeah, and Liquid

454
00:27:10,196 --> 00:27:12,676
Speaker 1: Liquid they put out the record that the message was

455
00:27:12,716 --> 00:27:16,036
Speaker 1: based on. Actually yeah, I have those records. Yeah. So

456
00:27:16,516 --> 00:27:18,756
Speaker 1: the guy who ran that record store was sort of

457
00:27:18,756 --> 00:27:21,916
Speaker 1: my mentor in that he walked me through the process.

458
00:27:21,916 --> 00:27:24,716
Speaker 1: He's like, Okay, here's a list of studios you could

459
00:27:24,756 --> 00:27:27,316
Speaker 1: go to. Here's a place you could have the vinyl press,

460
00:27:27,436 --> 00:27:29,436
Speaker 1: here's a place you can have the labels made. The

461
00:27:29,516 --> 00:27:32,316
Speaker 1: labels were made in Brooklyn. The vinyl was pressed in

462
00:27:32,436 --> 00:27:37,196
Speaker 1: I think Long Island City. The covers were printed in Canada,

463
00:27:37,276 --> 00:27:40,556
Speaker 1: and he kind of walked me through, here's people who

464
00:27:40,596 --> 00:27:43,756
Speaker 1: could do mastering for you, and he just walked me

465
00:27:43,756 --> 00:27:45,636
Speaker 1: through how to do it because I didn't know anything,

466
00:27:45,676 --> 00:27:47,636
Speaker 1: as I said, So I did that first for my

467
00:27:47,676 --> 00:27:49,836
Speaker 1: punk rock records and I was about to do that

468
00:27:50,236 --> 00:27:53,556
Speaker 1: with It's Yours when Jazzy called me because they were

469
00:27:53,596 --> 00:27:55,996
Speaker 1: making some movie that Arthur Baker was involved in. I

470
00:27:56,036 --> 00:27:57,596
Speaker 1: don't know what it was. I can't remember what it

471
00:27:57,676 --> 00:28:01,036
Speaker 1: was beat Street and he said, Hey, just met this guy,

472
00:28:01,156 --> 00:28:04,396
Speaker 1: Arthur Baker. He wants to hear our record. He's got

473
00:28:04,436 --> 00:28:06,796
Speaker 1: a label, maybe he can help us. And then I

474
00:28:06,836 --> 00:28:09,076
Speaker 1: went up and I met Arthur Baker at Shakedown Studio,

475
00:28:09,356 --> 00:28:10,796
Speaker 1: which is where we ended up doing a lot of

476
00:28:10,796 --> 00:28:12,996
Speaker 1: work in the future as well mixing. I think we

477
00:28:13,116 --> 00:28:16,956
Speaker 1: mixed half of License to Ill there and MCA from

478
00:28:16,956 --> 00:28:20,516
Speaker 1: the BC Boys work there. He worked as a as

479
00:28:20,556 --> 00:28:25,116
Speaker 1: like a tape op assistant there, okay, assistant engineer. So

480
00:28:25,156 --> 00:28:27,996
Speaker 1: I went up, I met Arthur for the first time

481
00:28:27,996 --> 00:28:31,156
Speaker 1: and he was already, you know, like a successful person

482
00:28:31,196 --> 00:28:34,476
Speaker 1: in the music business. And again I'm still this kid

483
00:28:34,516 --> 00:28:38,316
Speaker 1: in school playing the song. He's like this is great.

484
00:28:38,356 --> 00:28:42,516
Speaker 1: His main label was called street Wise Streetwise, and he

485
00:28:42,556 --> 00:28:45,476
Speaker 1: said put out and it really Yeah, it doesn't really

486
00:28:45,516 --> 00:28:47,676
Speaker 1: fit street Wise, but we could put it on Party Time,

487
00:28:47,716 --> 00:28:50,596
Speaker 1: which is like a sub label. Said fine, and he

488
00:28:51,196 --> 00:28:53,756
Speaker 1: bought the record to put Out and I said, the

489
00:28:53,756 --> 00:28:55,436
Speaker 1: only thing is it has to have the def Jam

490
00:28:55,476 --> 00:29:00,356
Speaker 1: logo on it. Um even though I drew that looking,

491
00:29:00,476 --> 00:29:03,596
Speaker 1: you drew that looking, I drew the yeah, I did.

492
00:29:03,756 --> 00:29:07,756
Speaker 1: My aunt Carol worked at Este Lauder in the creative

493
00:29:08,596 --> 00:29:11,956
Speaker 1: creative services department, and I would hang out there a lot,

494
00:29:11,996 --> 00:29:14,556
Speaker 1: and I used press type and I made it on

495
00:29:14,756 --> 00:29:17,956
Speaker 1: a day that either they were closed or just when

496
00:29:17,996 --> 00:29:21,796
Speaker 1: nobody was around at one of the designers tables, just

497
00:29:21,996 --> 00:29:26,316
Speaker 1: experimenting with different things. And the reason, the reason it

498
00:29:26,356 --> 00:29:31,556
Speaker 1: has the big DJ was to make that point of

499
00:29:31,556 --> 00:29:34,756
Speaker 1: like this is DJ culture. So I thought having the

500
00:29:34,796 --> 00:29:38,836
Speaker 1: big DJ in the logo quietly told the story of

501
00:29:38,876 --> 00:29:41,116
Speaker 1: what the label was about. Was that a one day

502
00:29:41,156 --> 00:29:43,716
Speaker 1: Willie drawing or was that like okay, on the fifth one,

503
00:29:43,836 --> 00:29:47,516
Speaker 1: I liked this one. I tried a lot of things.

504
00:29:47,596 --> 00:29:49,596
Speaker 1: I mean I tried a lot of things, but it

505
00:29:49,636 --> 00:29:51,676
Speaker 1: happened pretty quick. It came in, you know, came in

506
00:29:51,716 --> 00:29:55,236
Speaker 1: a day. I drew it a bunch of like uppercase

507
00:29:55,356 --> 00:29:58,396
Speaker 1: lowercase what looks good and moving it around and then

508
00:29:58,956 --> 00:30:01,116
Speaker 1: still have your sketches of it or are they long

509
00:30:01,196 --> 00:30:03,636
Speaker 1: gone thing? So I probably long gone it. I don't.

510
00:30:03,676 --> 00:30:05,876
Speaker 1: It's possible that they exist because I had a lot

511
00:30:05,916 --> 00:30:09,436
Speaker 1: of stuff at my parents house and then some of

512
00:30:09,436 --> 00:30:12,076
Speaker 1: that stuff is in a in storage somewhere, but I've

513
00:30:12,076 --> 00:30:14,036
Speaker 1: never looked at it. I was gonna ask what does

514
00:30:14,076 --> 00:30:16,436
Speaker 1: it feel? Because I've heard a mirror and Tariq say

515
00:30:16,516 --> 00:30:19,076
Speaker 1: that sometimes they went on def jam just because they

516
00:30:19,116 --> 00:30:22,556
Speaker 1: wanted to be able to have that logo affiliated with

517
00:30:22,596 --> 00:30:26,276
Speaker 1: their name. That's gotta feel crazy, just from a drawing

518
00:30:26,276 --> 00:30:31,316
Speaker 1: not eat. Yeah, like you know, I in class, I

519
00:30:31,436 --> 00:30:36,756
Speaker 1: draw that logo on imaginary uh roots albums that didn't

520
00:30:36,756 --> 00:30:41,796
Speaker 1: exist yet, like hanging that shit on my wall. I

521
00:30:41,916 --> 00:30:44,556
Speaker 1: probably did exactly the same thing, and then it ended

522
00:30:44,636 --> 00:30:46,996
Speaker 1: up becoming you know, they weren't roots albums, but they

523
00:30:46,996 --> 00:30:50,276
Speaker 1: were whatever it was. It was just like playing with

524
00:30:50,596 --> 00:30:52,436
Speaker 1: how do we say that, what's the name gonna be,

525
00:30:52,476 --> 00:30:54,676
Speaker 1: what's it gonna look like? How does how does it work?

526
00:30:55,316 --> 00:30:59,476
Speaker 1: In eighty three eighty four, how expensive are eight or

527
00:30:59,516 --> 00:31:03,796
Speaker 1: eight drum machines. I don't mean that you casually come across.

528
00:31:04,476 --> 00:31:06,876
Speaker 1: It's something that I luckily came across because there was

529
00:31:06,876 --> 00:31:09,476
Speaker 1: a guy in my dorm room who was in an

530
00:31:09,876 --> 00:31:14,156
Speaker 1: alternative rock band called the Speedies, and he had that

531
00:31:14,236 --> 00:31:16,916
Speaker 1: machine and he lent he lent me the eight oweight

532
00:31:16,956 --> 00:31:19,876
Speaker 1: drum machine. That's how I came across it. So were

533
00:31:19,876 --> 00:31:22,876
Speaker 1: you able to program and save beats or is it

534
00:31:22,916 --> 00:31:25,596
Speaker 1: just like you turn on you show what you could

535
00:31:25,596 --> 00:31:30,716
Speaker 1: do in print it? You could make twenty or so

536
00:31:30,956 --> 00:31:36,356
Speaker 1: pre program beats. So how long is the conversation with

537
00:31:36,516 --> 00:31:39,756
Speaker 1: Russell Simmons before you realize that you're going to go

538
00:31:39,796 --> 00:31:42,836
Speaker 1: into partnership with him and start the label officially? I

539
00:31:42,956 --> 00:31:45,916
Speaker 1: met Russell at a party for Graffiti Rock that that

540
00:31:46,076 --> 00:31:52,156
Speaker 1: TV Wow where Treacher's Three and Render Yeah. And I

541
00:31:52,196 --> 00:31:55,236
Speaker 1: went there, you know, hoping that Treacher's Three would be

542
00:31:55,276 --> 00:31:58,076
Speaker 1: there because they were, you know, my favorite group. And

543
00:31:58,436 --> 00:32:01,316
Speaker 1: this is like an after party. This was an after

544
00:32:01,356 --> 00:32:05,316
Speaker 1: party and someone introduced me to Russell and I told

545
00:32:05,396 --> 00:32:07,356
Speaker 1: him I made it's yours and he couldn't believe it.

546
00:32:07,356 --> 00:32:12,116
Speaker 1: It's just like no way, It's like you're white. You

547
00:32:12,156 --> 00:32:16,796
Speaker 1: didn't make that record and again. But you have to

548
00:32:16,876 --> 00:32:19,476
Speaker 1: understand that were there were really were well. Tom Silverman

549
00:32:19,596 --> 00:32:21,196
Speaker 1: was involved in hip hop. He was the only other

550
00:32:21,236 --> 00:32:23,796
Speaker 1: white person I would say that I knew who had

551
00:32:23,876 --> 00:32:26,796
Speaker 1: any relationship to hip hop at that time. Yeah, but

552
00:32:26,836 --> 00:32:31,236
Speaker 1: he wasn't making beats. He was he was really helpful.

553
00:32:31,436 --> 00:32:33,596
Speaker 1: He was really helpful to us, like he was someone

554
00:32:33,916 --> 00:32:35,916
Speaker 1: another Like I had these great mentors. I had the

555
00:32:35,916 --> 00:32:38,996
Speaker 1: guy at nine nine Records, ed Ed Bellman. His name

556
00:32:39,116 --> 00:32:44,276
Speaker 1: was and Um And I had to Tommy and I

557
00:32:44,276 --> 00:32:46,116
Speaker 1: would call Tom's just like, hey, what do I do?

558
00:32:46,156 --> 00:32:49,836
Speaker 1: Monica Lynch, who worked with Tommy, It's like what do

559
00:32:49,916 --> 00:32:51,956
Speaker 1: we do? How do how do it? What's the next step?

560
00:32:52,196 --> 00:32:53,836
Speaker 1: And I can remember his story. I don't think I've

561
00:32:53,876 --> 00:32:58,076
Speaker 1: ever told Anyone's interesting why I was excited about having

562
00:32:58,156 --> 00:33:02,436
Speaker 1: Russell as a partner. I was walking on in front

563
00:33:02,436 --> 00:33:05,356
Speaker 1: of the dorm, across the street from the dorm, turning

564
00:33:05,396 --> 00:33:08,196
Speaker 1: the corner I ran into and I don't even know.

565
00:33:08,276 --> 00:33:10,236
Speaker 1: This is strange because I don't know how I knew

566
00:33:10,276 --> 00:33:12,476
Speaker 1: who he was. But there was a writer for the

567
00:33:12,556 --> 00:33:18,996
Speaker 1: Village Voice named Aaron Fuchs. He wrote the Village He

568
00:33:19,156 --> 00:33:21,276
Speaker 1: was a writer first he was a he was a writer.

569
00:33:22,676 --> 00:33:25,276
Speaker 1: Fus but listen, let me let me tell you, let

570
00:33:25,356 --> 00:33:27,156
Speaker 1: me tell you the story. So again, it's amazing the

571
00:33:27,196 --> 00:33:29,596
Speaker 1: fact that I even I don't know how I knew

572
00:33:29,636 --> 00:33:31,236
Speaker 1: who he was or how it worked out that I

573
00:33:32,476 --> 00:33:34,596
Speaker 1: that I, but I literally went up to him on

574
00:33:34,596 --> 00:33:37,556
Speaker 1: the street and said, hey, I made this record, and

575
00:33:38,036 --> 00:33:39,716
Speaker 1: what do I have to do to get people to

576
00:33:39,756 --> 00:33:42,676
Speaker 1: hear it? Like how do I do this? And this

577
00:33:42,756 --> 00:33:44,796
Speaker 1: was it's yours. I don't even think I had the

578
00:33:44,996 --> 00:33:46,676
Speaker 1: I was just more of a conversation. It's like, how

579
00:33:46,716 --> 00:33:48,956
Speaker 1: does it work? How does this work? So now I'm

580
00:33:48,996 --> 00:33:52,956
Speaker 1: at the stage where because I was always comfortable asking questions,

581
00:33:52,996 --> 00:33:56,796
Speaker 1: you know, I would if someone had information that I needed,

582
00:33:56,796 --> 00:33:59,796
Speaker 1: I was. I felt comfortable asking and sometimes they would

583
00:33:59,796 --> 00:34:02,516
Speaker 1: help and sometimes they wouldn't. So I thought he was

584
00:34:02,516 --> 00:34:04,236
Speaker 1: someone who might be able to help. And I just said,

585
00:34:04,516 --> 00:34:06,196
Speaker 1: you know, what's the next step? How do I get

586
00:34:06,196 --> 00:34:10,036
Speaker 1: people to hear this thing? And he said, you need

587
00:34:10,116 --> 00:34:14,236
Speaker 1: promotion and you can't do it. And he said the

588
00:34:14,356 --> 00:34:18,676
Speaker 1: only person who knows how to do promotion for hip

589
00:34:18,716 --> 00:34:22,996
Speaker 1: hop records is Russell Simmons, and Russell Simmons won't do

590
00:34:23,116 --> 00:34:26,156
Speaker 1: anything for anyone except his brother Run. He works with

591
00:34:26,196 --> 00:34:28,476
Speaker 1: a lot of artists, but he said, unless your run,

592
00:34:28,916 --> 00:34:33,036
Speaker 1: he won't promote your records. So it's like, Okay, I'm thinking,

593
00:34:33,036 --> 00:34:35,876
Speaker 1: maybe someday I'll meet this guy Rustling. At least he'll

594
00:34:35,916 --> 00:34:37,916
Speaker 1: tell me what he does, even if he won't do

595
00:34:37,996 --> 00:34:41,436
Speaker 1: it just in hopes of getting the word out. I

596
00:34:41,476 --> 00:34:43,596
Speaker 1: gotta get to the bottom of the story. Now. If

597
00:34:43,636 --> 00:34:47,116
Speaker 1: he was a writer for the Village Voice, and he

598
00:34:47,196 --> 00:34:53,996
Speaker 1: too was, you know, a hopeful record mogul, yet you

599
00:34:54,036 --> 00:34:56,676
Speaker 1: know the story and the fable of Aaron is that

600
00:34:56,756 --> 00:35:01,236
Speaker 1: he would go hard and the paint and suing any

601
00:35:01,316 --> 00:35:03,996
Speaker 1: product on deaf Jam that contains any of the samples

602
00:35:03,996 --> 00:35:06,796
Speaker 1: that he owned. I would say even beyond that is

603
00:35:06,836 --> 00:35:10,036
Speaker 1: that if he knew any song had the potential to

604
00:35:10,076 --> 00:35:11,876
Speaker 1: be sampled, he'd try to buy up the rights so

605
00:35:11,916 --> 00:35:14,796
Speaker 1: that he could sue whoever sampled it. Well, yeah, that too.

606
00:35:14,876 --> 00:35:18,236
Speaker 1: But I'm almost feeling like maybe he has a personal

607
00:35:18,276 --> 00:35:20,396
Speaker 1: beef with Russell that none of us are aware of,

608
00:35:20,596 --> 00:35:25,316
Speaker 1: because there are other samples that he could have went

609
00:35:25,396 --> 00:35:27,596
Speaker 1: after that he never did. But if it was on

610
00:35:27,756 --> 00:35:31,276
Speaker 1: def Jam, it's like like goodfellas, fuck, you pay me

611
00:35:32,956 --> 00:35:35,836
Speaker 1: I always wanted to know if that was if there

612
00:35:35,916 --> 00:35:38,756
Speaker 1: was like a burnt bridge, and it's sort of like, Okay,

613
00:35:39,076 --> 00:35:40,956
Speaker 1: I'm gonna get you. When he told when he told

614
00:35:40,956 --> 00:35:44,156
Speaker 1: me about Russell, he was not positive about him. It

615
00:35:44,236 --> 00:35:47,076
Speaker 1: was not a positive conversation, but it was just this.

616
00:35:47,876 --> 00:35:56,316
Speaker 1: It was a piece of information that was helpful. There's

617
00:35:56,356 --> 00:36:00,076
Speaker 1: an article that or a block that Harry Allen once

618
00:36:00,116 --> 00:36:05,036
Speaker 1: wrote in an honor of your early production methods, in

619
00:36:05,076 --> 00:36:09,036
Speaker 1: which you know, it's noted that you have the left

620
00:36:09,156 --> 00:36:13,396
Speaker 1: out as eight h eight sounds the loudest scratches, like

621
00:36:13,476 --> 00:36:16,036
Speaker 1: your scratches on going back to CALLI like, it's just

622
00:36:16,236 --> 00:36:20,476
Speaker 1: louder than everything. So even like what's your engineering process

623
00:36:20,596 --> 00:36:23,596
Speaker 1: or just your whole theory on pushing it to the limit,

624
00:36:25,116 --> 00:36:29,956
Speaker 1: there is none I will say. I like, if you're

625
00:36:29,996 --> 00:36:33,236
Speaker 1: gonna put something in there, I want to be able

626
00:36:33,276 --> 00:36:36,716
Speaker 1: to hear it, Like I want the idea of having

627
00:36:36,796 --> 00:36:40,076
Speaker 1: scratching as this sort of background element that's going on

628
00:36:40,156 --> 00:36:43,476
Speaker 1: all the time is not so interesting to me. It's like,

629
00:36:43,476 --> 00:36:46,756
Speaker 1: if it's gonna be there, it should be only exactly

630
00:36:46,756 --> 00:36:48,876
Speaker 1: when it needs to be there, and it should be

631
00:36:49,076 --> 00:36:53,316
Speaker 1: crazy loud because in some ways It's like it's like

632
00:36:53,476 --> 00:36:57,516
Speaker 1: lead guitar, you know, it's a punctuation moment. It's not

633
00:36:57,556 --> 00:37:00,356
Speaker 1: a background sound. And as a rule, I'm not so

634
00:37:00,436 --> 00:37:04,316
Speaker 1: into background sounds. You know. It's more about having the

635
00:37:04,436 --> 00:37:08,996
Speaker 1: least amount of stuff going on, creating space where each

636
00:37:09,276 --> 00:37:13,156
Speaker 1: thing that you hear, hopefully very few of them sound

637
00:37:13,396 --> 00:37:16,996
Speaker 1: as clear and have as much personality as possible. And

638
00:37:17,036 --> 00:37:21,796
Speaker 1: as soon as you start blanketing sounds, all of each

639
00:37:21,836 --> 00:37:24,916
Speaker 1: of those sounds gets diminished. And I can hear that

640
00:37:24,996 --> 00:37:27,356
Speaker 1: in your I can really hear that in your rock production,

641
00:37:27,436 --> 00:37:32,796
Speaker 1: predicular particularly on Californication, which is probably my favorite Rick

642
00:37:32,876 --> 00:37:37,076
Speaker 1: Rubin produced album. But but now I love that recommend.

643
00:37:37,156 --> 00:37:39,636
Speaker 1: Like I when I preserted it was just I was

644
00:37:39,676 --> 00:37:41,476
Speaker 1: taken it back by just how the way you track

645
00:37:41,556 --> 00:37:45,476
Speaker 1: Anthony's vocals, Like it sounded almost like to the edge

646
00:37:45,476 --> 00:37:47,596
Speaker 1: of distortion but not quite, and it just had that

647
00:37:47,876 --> 00:37:50,236
Speaker 1: kind of grid on it, and it was just really

648
00:37:50,236 --> 00:37:54,396
Speaker 1: in your face. And I love that record. I just

649
00:37:54,396 --> 00:37:57,276
Speaker 1: want to get balls on that one. So you were

650
00:37:57,356 --> 00:37:58,996
Speaker 1: you were about to tell the rock the Bell story.

651
00:37:59,036 --> 00:38:02,796
Speaker 1: I think, yeah, I'll tell you what I remember, but

652
00:38:02,796 --> 00:38:05,356
Speaker 1: but I don't remember the Bob James record ever being

653
00:38:05,396 --> 00:38:08,556
Speaker 1: in the conversation. It may have been it may have

654
00:38:08,596 --> 00:38:13,076
Speaker 1: been something that L had been thinking and wanting to do. Okay, okay,

655
00:38:13,116 --> 00:38:17,636
Speaker 1: but I don't remember it. I don't remember talking about it. Yeah,

656
00:38:17,676 --> 00:38:20,076
Speaker 1: I was gonna say, it's even possible that when it

657
00:38:20,156 --> 00:38:23,676
Speaker 1: was time to record it, that he suggested it, And

658
00:38:23,916 --> 00:38:26,236
Speaker 1: it is possible that we were already working on the

659
00:38:26,316 --> 00:38:29,636
Speaker 1: run DMC, the Peter Piper song. It is possible, all right,

660
00:38:29,916 --> 00:38:32,836
Speaker 1: what was your one of the one of the factors

661
00:38:32,876 --> 00:38:36,596
Speaker 1: that you also used in your early production was the

662
00:38:36,596 --> 00:38:39,596
Speaker 1: sound of Go Go and rock the bells and then

663
00:38:39,636 --> 00:38:43,836
Speaker 1: She's crafty um and also you know, I'll say that

664
00:38:44,956 --> 00:38:48,916
Speaker 1: one of the things I've done in the Quarantine Punishment

665
00:38:49,276 --> 00:38:54,716
Speaker 1: is practically purchase every Go Go album made available and

666
00:38:55,516 --> 00:38:58,996
Speaker 1: nothing I hate. And I know a lot of it

667
00:38:59,036 --> 00:39:02,116
Speaker 1: has to do with either the studios that they record in.

668
00:39:02,196 --> 00:39:07,756
Speaker 1: Either it's too clean or it's too amateurish. But Sardines,

669
00:39:07,876 --> 00:39:14,236
Speaker 1: to me is probably the best. Yeah, Sardines is probably

670
00:39:14,276 --> 00:39:18,116
Speaker 1: the best produced Go Go record, probably second to Pump

671
00:39:18,156 --> 00:39:22,156
Speaker 1: Me Up. So, first of all, Sardines is such a

672
00:39:22,276 --> 00:39:26,596
Speaker 1: stripped down song. How did you record Junkyard drop the bombs?

673
00:39:26,596 --> 00:39:31,996
Speaker 1: Incredible to Okay, I'll say early early Trump of early

674
00:39:32,036 --> 00:39:35,636
Speaker 1: Trump Funk. Yes, there, there, there there. Mixing was immaculate.

675
00:39:35,716 --> 00:39:39,756
Speaker 1: But um, what was the process in recording the Junkyard

676
00:39:39,796 --> 00:39:45,156
Speaker 1: band and why didn't you press on further with them? Okay,

677
00:39:45,276 --> 00:39:48,836
Speaker 1: let me, I'm gonna just talk for a second about

678
00:39:49,476 --> 00:39:52,036
Speaker 1: I agree with you. The only the only Go Go

679
00:39:52,196 --> 00:39:55,756
Speaker 1: records I like are old Trouble Funk records other than Sardines,

680
00:39:55,756 --> 00:39:59,276
Speaker 1: which I think was good. And I want to talk

681
00:39:59,276 --> 00:40:03,196
Speaker 1: about that a little bit because what you're describing is

682
00:40:03,276 --> 00:40:07,116
Speaker 1: exactly the way I felt about hip hop where you

683
00:40:07,156 --> 00:40:10,156
Speaker 1: could buy in those days, early days of hip hop,

684
00:40:10,236 --> 00:40:12,596
Speaker 1: I could buy a twelve inch or two every week.

685
00:40:12,636 --> 00:40:14,356
Speaker 1: That's all that would come out. That would be hip hop.

686
00:40:14,956 --> 00:40:20,196
Speaker 1: And none of them did for me what the Trouble

687
00:40:20,236 --> 00:40:22,716
Speaker 1: Funk records did as it relates to Go Go. Do

688
00:40:22,756 --> 00:40:26,476
Speaker 1: you know what I'm saying. Yeah, it's like the the

689
00:40:26,596 --> 00:40:30,356
Speaker 1: hip hop records were like the bad Go Go records. Say,

690
00:40:30,396 --> 00:40:33,236
Speaker 1: it's the same, It's the same in any genre. It's like,

691
00:40:33,396 --> 00:40:36,796
Speaker 1: it's not about the genre, it's the way the records

692
00:40:36,796 --> 00:40:39,876
Speaker 1: are made. And in some ways I felt like Gogo

693
00:40:39,996 --> 00:40:42,596
Speaker 1: was gonna be the next hip hop. I usually believe

694
00:40:42,676 --> 00:40:45,636
Speaker 1: that was going to happen, but they didn't make the

695
00:40:45,716 --> 00:40:52,316
Speaker 1: right records. They sounded, they watered down what Gogo was. Yeah,

696
00:40:52,756 --> 00:40:55,876
Speaker 1: like the records on Island. Island signed all the bands,

697
00:40:56,636 --> 00:40:59,956
Speaker 1: and those records are terrible. Do you think that's because

698
00:41:00,036 --> 00:41:03,476
Speaker 1: it's kind of designed for it to be a live

699
00:41:03,556 --> 00:41:06,676
Speaker 1: situation more than a record at the end of the day,

700
00:41:06,716 --> 00:41:11,316
Speaker 1: like a studio album. I just think the wrong people

701
00:41:11,476 --> 00:41:14,756
Speaker 1: were helping make the music, the wrong people were involved

702
00:41:14,836 --> 00:41:19,076
Speaker 1: on the recording side. Yes, I don't like how half

703
00:41:19,076 --> 00:41:23,156
Speaker 1: the Google records are engineered. Not I mean, I love

704
00:41:23,316 --> 00:41:27,236
Speaker 1: Rare Essence more than any band on Earth, but it

705
00:41:27,356 --> 00:41:32,436
Speaker 1: just frustrates me that the energy and that the engineering

706
00:41:33,476 --> 00:41:37,116
Speaker 1: of when I hear them live or even I hear

707
00:41:37,196 --> 00:41:40,396
Speaker 1: like some of their live mixtapes, that's not captured on

708
00:41:40,436 --> 00:41:44,156
Speaker 1: a studio cut. For me, that's what I'm ye. And

709
00:41:44,236 --> 00:41:49,596
Speaker 1: so why was Sardines and the Word just a one

710
00:41:49,636 --> 00:41:53,516
Speaker 1: off twelve inch? Was there ever a conversation about recording

711
00:41:54,116 --> 00:41:57,236
Speaker 1: Junkyard as a band or I'm Not as a band

712
00:41:57,276 --> 00:42:00,356
Speaker 1: as a full album? I don't. I don't really remember,

713
00:42:00,396 --> 00:42:03,996
Speaker 1: and I think not long after I ended up leaving

714
00:42:03,996 --> 00:42:07,276
Speaker 1: Deaf Jam. So it may have been that it was

715
00:42:07,356 --> 00:42:10,276
Speaker 1: just like towards the end of the time that I

716
00:42:10,316 --> 00:42:13,436
Speaker 1: was doing stuff with def Jam and then just stopped.

717
00:42:13,676 --> 00:42:16,196
Speaker 1: But I don't remember. I don't remember there being First

718
00:42:16,236 --> 00:42:18,636
Speaker 1: of all, nobody particularly cared about it, like we liked it,

719
00:42:18,956 --> 00:42:22,476
Speaker 1: but it's not like there was any demand for the

720
00:42:22,556 --> 00:42:25,996
Speaker 1: Junkyard band. As crazy as that sounds, I loved them.

721
00:42:26,356 --> 00:42:29,836
Speaker 1: I was told to ask you about the making of

722
00:42:29,996 --> 00:42:36,316
Speaker 1: Crush Groove the song. What tell me the story the

723
00:42:36,436 --> 00:42:41,116
Speaker 1: making of Crush Groove the song? What's I was thinking,

724
00:42:41,356 --> 00:42:45,476
Speaker 1: it's funny that this has been I couldn't. I didn't

725
00:42:45,556 --> 00:42:49,196
Speaker 1: remember what song that was there. I had a memory

726
00:42:49,236 --> 00:42:52,396
Speaker 1: that we did a song with run DMC and other artists,

727
00:42:52,636 --> 00:42:56,036
Speaker 1: and I remember the conversation in the studio because it

728
00:42:56,116 --> 00:43:00,276
Speaker 1: was heated and particularly as it related to me, like

729
00:43:00,316 --> 00:43:03,396
Speaker 1: I was very unhappy with what was going on, and

730
00:43:03,476 --> 00:43:05,036
Speaker 1: I thought it for some reason, I thought it was

731
00:43:05,076 --> 00:43:08,076
Speaker 1: a Christmas song, but have come to realize it's actually

732
00:43:08,116 --> 00:43:10,796
Speaker 1: that Crush Groove song and um and I could never

733
00:43:10,836 --> 00:43:13,436
Speaker 1: find it anywhere because it's listed as the Crush Grewve

734
00:43:13,556 --> 00:43:17,596
Speaker 1: All Stars. So yeah, so it's not like if you're

735
00:43:17,636 --> 00:43:20,636
Speaker 1: looking back at run DMC songs, that comes up right.

736
00:43:20,716 --> 00:43:22,636
Speaker 1: So I haven't heard it in a long time, but

737
00:43:22,716 --> 00:43:25,316
Speaker 1: I had this vague memory. It's like we did this song,

738
00:43:25,676 --> 00:43:27,156
Speaker 1: and I remember there was a little bit of an

739
00:43:27,236 --> 00:43:29,436
Speaker 1: argument in the studio, and what the argument was was,

740
00:43:29,476 --> 00:43:32,076
Speaker 1: if you listen to the track, should we play it

741
00:43:32,116 --> 00:43:34,316
Speaker 1: because it'll it'll or at least play some of it.

742
00:43:34,396 --> 00:43:37,076
Speaker 1: You want to play a little bit of it? The track?

743
00:43:38,716 --> 00:43:40,756
Speaker 1: Who were the who the who are the other artists

744
00:43:40,796 --> 00:43:47,156
Speaker 1: on it? Do you remember? Okay, the movie people wanted

745
00:43:47,196 --> 00:43:50,876
Speaker 1: a song for the movie. They got the Fat Boys,

746
00:43:50,916 --> 00:43:56,076
Speaker 1: Sheila E and Curtis Blow on this track. That sounded

747
00:43:56,156 --> 00:44:00,796
Speaker 1: like a track that would fit on maybe any one

748
00:44:00,836 --> 00:44:03,396
Speaker 1: of the three of their albums, maybe she'lla E Less,

749
00:44:03,956 --> 00:44:06,676
Speaker 1: But it sounded most like a Fat Boys record or

750
00:44:06,796 --> 00:44:10,116
Speaker 1: Curtis Curtis Blow record. Yeah, it sounds like a pop

751
00:44:10,116 --> 00:44:13,676
Speaker 1: word Curtis Blow record. So when we got to the studio, okay,

752
00:44:13,756 --> 00:44:18,596
Speaker 1: do you want to play it? Rush Man Biting Love,

753
00:44:20,156 --> 00:44:39,476
Speaker 1: Rush Biting Love that I think I was five when

754
00:44:39,476 --> 00:45:03,036
Speaker 1: it came out. I love this fucking song way now. Well, okay,

755
00:45:03,036 --> 00:45:05,836
Speaker 1: so what's what's When we got to the studio. The

756
00:45:05,916 --> 00:45:09,316
Speaker 1: mission was, we're doing this song for the movie. They

757
00:45:09,356 --> 00:45:12,556
Speaker 1: provided us this song. The other MC's ready on it,

758
00:45:12,636 --> 00:45:15,636
Speaker 1: and now I'm there as Run DMC's producer, and they're

759
00:45:15,636 --> 00:45:19,196
Speaker 1: supposed to get on this on this track. And it

760
00:45:19,316 --> 00:45:21,756
Speaker 1: sounded only like the beginning of the song didn't sound

761
00:45:21,796 --> 00:45:24,516
Speaker 1: like the run DMC part right, And I said, there's

762
00:45:24,596 --> 00:45:26,956
Speaker 1: no way Run DMC could be on this. They cannot

763
00:45:26,996 --> 00:45:29,356
Speaker 1: be on this. It's like, this sounds like a Fat

764
00:45:29,396 --> 00:45:32,876
Speaker 1: Boys record. This sounds like a Curtis Blow record. That's

765
00:45:32,916 --> 00:45:35,956
Speaker 1: not a Run DMC record. I love Run DMC. This

766
00:45:36,036 --> 00:45:39,316
Speaker 1: is something else. And and then I said, well, the

767
00:45:39,396 --> 00:45:42,396
Speaker 1: only way we could have Run DMC on this would

768
00:45:42,436 --> 00:45:45,916
Speaker 1: be if we make our own track and drop it

769
00:45:45,956 --> 00:45:48,636
Speaker 1: in in the middle where it could sound like this

770
00:45:48,716 --> 00:45:53,516
Speaker 1: is a run DMC song. And that's it's how that

771
00:45:53,636 --> 00:45:55,476
Speaker 1: ended up. And I was the only one who cared.

772
00:45:55,556 --> 00:45:58,356
Speaker 1: Nobody else cared nobody, you know, it would have just

773
00:45:58,436 --> 00:46:01,956
Speaker 1: been like Larry, Larry and Curtis weren't offended. I don't.

774
00:46:02,116 --> 00:46:05,756
Speaker 1: I don't even know. I didn't even know who produced it. Yeah,

775
00:46:05,796 --> 00:46:09,476
Speaker 1: I didn't know that. I do remember Curtis was stuff

776
00:46:09,516 --> 00:46:11,876
Speaker 1: after saying how come I can't be over the part

777
00:46:11,956 --> 00:46:17,956
Speaker 1: that runs on like, how come he couldn't write breakdown? Yeah,

778
00:46:18,076 --> 00:46:21,516
Speaker 1: the breakdown? Can you talk about? You know, there's there's

779
00:46:21,596 --> 00:46:27,396
Speaker 1: producer as as song clinician and arranger and music person,

780
00:46:27,676 --> 00:46:31,636
Speaker 1: and there's something about producer as social psychologist. And I

781
00:46:31,676 --> 00:46:35,796
Speaker 1: feel like, your your life and correct me if I'm wrong.

782
00:46:35,956 --> 00:46:38,676
Speaker 1: It's sort of this weird thing that rides between them

783
00:46:38,676 --> 00:46:42,156
Speaker 1: and the great producers that I know run this line

784
00:46:42,196 --> 00:46:45,276
Speaker 1: that I don't fully understand how to run, and I

785
00:46:45,276 --> 00:46:47,796
Speaker 1: feel like you've mastered it and and in your career

786
00:46:47,876 --> 00:46:50,596
Speaker 1: have sort of defined what a producer is. And so

787
00:46:50,836 --> 00:46:53,076
Speaker 1: there are some producers that are that are beat makers,

788
00:46:53,076 --> 00:46:56,316
Speaker 1: there are some producers that are songwriters. You're able to

789
00:46:56,356 --> 00:46:59,036
Speaker 1: encompass all of them, and not only in one particular genre,

790
00:46:59,076 --> 00:47:02,676
Speaker 1: but in about four or five. So like, I don't know.

791
00:47:02,716 --> 00:47:05,116
Speaker 1: I mean, you call yourself a reducer, and I get

792
00:47:05,156 --> 00:47:07,756
Speaker 1: that sort of play on words, but like, I don't know,

793
00:47:07,836 --> 00:47:09,796
Speaker 1: what what is it? What is it about all of

794
00:47:09,796 --> 00:47:12,356
Speaker 1: that that makes it work, that makes that makes you

795
00:47:12,436 --> 00:47:14,276
Speaker 1: enjoy what you do as well? Because that to me

796
00:47:14,396 --> 00:47:18,636
Speaker 1: is fascinating. I'll say that I think it always changes

797
00:47:18,636 --> 00:47:20,036
Speaker 1: at the time that I was more of a beat

798
00:47:20,076 --> 00:47:23,156
Speaker 1: making producer, which are the days we're talking about now

799
00:47:23,516 --> 00:47:29,236
Speaker 1: I was. I was not good at the psychology part

800
00:47:29,516 --> 00:47:33,796
Speaker 1: and the collaborating I was not good. I was much

801
00:47:33,876 --> 00:47:36,996
Speaker 1: more of a I know what's good and you're going

802
00:47:37,076 --> 00:47:40,156
Speaker 1: to do it my way, probably for my hip hop

803
00:47:40,156 --> 00:47:43,316
Speaker 1: early hip hop days. And then as I started working

804
00:47:43,316 --> 00:47:48,316
Speaker 1: with more rock bands, I started understanding more the dynamics

805
00:47:48,476 --> 00:47:52,436
Speaker 1: of working with a group of people. And now the

806
00:47:52,476 --> 00:47:54,636
Speaker 1: most interesting thing for me when I work with an

807
00:47:54,756 --> 00:47:59,676
Speaker 1: artist is I can clearly point out where I think

808
00:48:00,036 --> 00:48:03,996
Speaker 1: the strengths and weaknesses are. But I don't feel like

809
00:48:04,036 --> 00:48:09,596
Speaker 1: it's my responsibility to solve the weaknesses. All I have

810
00:48:09,636 --> 00:48:12,276
Speaker 1: to do is point out, like, M, this section here

811
00:48:12,356 --> 00:48:14,036
Speaker 1: isn't as good as it could be. What can we

812
00:48:14,036 --> 00:48:15,956
Speaker 1: do to make it better? Whereas in the old days,

813
00:48:15,996 --> 00:48:18,596
Speaker 1: I'd say this section isn't as good and this is

814
00:48:18,596 --> 00:48:22,636
Speaker 1: what we're gonna do. Now it's this part isn't as good.

815
00:48:23,716 --> 00:48:25,956
Speaker 1: How do you guys suggest we fix it? And all

816
00:48:25,956 --> 00:48:28,556
Speaker 1: of that is subjective. It's all based on your opinion, right,

817
00:48:28,556 --> 00:48:30,556
Speaker 1: I mean, like it's it's all how you. All it

818
00:48:30,596 --> 00:48:33,196
Speaker 1: is is opinion. Everything everything has to do with opinion.

819
00:48:33,836 --> 00:48:37,116
Speaker 1: The whole job, the whole job of doing this is

820
00:48:37,236 --> 00:48:43,876
Speaker 1: pure opinion. Yeah yeah, Okay, So before before I get

821
00:48:43,916 --> 00:48:47,916
Speaker 1: to the Beastie Boys, well Unpaid Bill sort of sorry

822
00:48:47,996 --> 00:48:51,556
Speaker 1: enemy to divert, but I was because actually my next

823
00:48:51,596 --> 00:48:54,956
Speaker 1: question leads to what you headed with uh Unpaid Bill,

824
00:48:55,036 --> 00:48:59,596
Speaker 1: which is basically, whenever you show up and whenever you

825
00:48:59,676 --> 00:49:03,516
Speaker 1: show up in the credits, two things are bound to happen,

826
00:49:04,116 --> 00:49:09,756
Speaker 1: and that is you're going to us to sound. So

827
00:49:09,756 --> 00:49:12,396
Speaker 1: we already talked about the idea of you stripping stuff

828
00:49:12,436 --> 00:49:15,076
Speaker 1: down to just its bare bones and making it loud.

829
00:49:15,996 --> 00:49:22,276
Speaker 1: But it's also you really introduced the idea of cross

830
00:49:22,276 --> 00:49:28,236
Speaker 1: genres in modern hip hop music. I mean with with

831
00:49:28,396 --> 00:49:32,636
Speaker 1: RUNDEMC having their biggest hit with Walk This Way, even

832
00:49:32,716 --> 00:49:36,236
Speaker 1: with the Beastie Boys, at least in their their narrative

833
00:49:36,276 --> 00:49:39,076
Speaker 1: of it, like we were making fun of smoking in

834
00:49:39,116 --> 00:49:42,076
Speaker 1: the boys rooms and now here we go with fight

835
00:49:42,156 --> 00:49:45,276
Speaker 1: for You Right to Party. But even with Johnny Cash

836
00:49:45,316 --> 00:49:51,596
Speaker 1: doing Hurt, or even with Mick Jaggers singing over and

837
00:49:51,676 --> 00:49:54,996
Speaker 1: Peach the President, even with the stuff with Slayer or

838
00:49:55,196 --> 00:49:58,836
Speaker 1: working with Neil Diamond, like there's always an element or

839
00:49:58,956 --> 00:50:04,756
Speaker 1: Kanye rhyming over industrial shrew noises. There seems to be

840
00:50:04,916 --> 00:50:10,436
Speaker 1: a common denominator of you pushing artists. I don't willing

841
00:50:10,556 --> 00:50:12,876
Speaker 1: or unwillingly. I mean, Kanye seems like the type of

842
00:50:12,876 --> 00:50:15,476
Speaker 1: person that's like, let's let's let's go to the edge

843
00:50:15,516 --> 00:50:18,516
Speaker 1: of it, let's do something different, whereas like run DMC

844
00:50:18,756 --> 00:50:22,236
Speaker 1: was legendary for not liking or wanting to do walk

845
00:50:22,316 --> 00:50:24,916
Speaker 1: this way the way that you wanted them to do it.

846
00:50:25,316 --> 00:50:30,236
Speaker 1: So how much hold handing and Jedi mind tricks and

847
00:50:30,516 --> 00:50:34,236
Speaker 1: psychology it's all psychology? It seems like, yeah, how like,

848
00:50:34,956 --> 00:50:38,076
Speaker 1: how much of that is a nightmare for you when

849
00:50:38,116 --> 00:50:40,076
Speaker 1: you just want to make the damn song and leave?

850
00:50:42,716 --> 00:50:45,236
Speaker 1: My whole relationship too has changed over the years. So

851
00:50:45,316 --> 00:50:49,236
Speaker 1: in the case of run DMC, then it was frustrating

852
00:50:49,276 --> 00:50:50,916
Speaker 1: and I didn't have the tools to deal with it.

853
00:50:50,956 --> 00:50:57,796
Speaker 1: But luckily Russell called called run in dy and said,

854
00:50:58,036 --> 00:51:01,196
Speaker 1: just do whatever Rick says. It's like real knows what

855
00:51:01,236 --> 00:51:04,276
Speaker 1: he's doing. Just do what Rick says. So had that

856
00:51:04,396 --> 00:51:06,356
Speaker 1: not happened, they wouldn't have they wouldn't have been on

857
00:51:06,396 --> 00:51:09,316
Speaker 1: the record. That record wouldn't have happened. So it that's

858
00:51:09,316 --> 00:51:13,196
Speaker 1: how that happened, and even after Rockbox and King of Rock,

859
00:51:14,716 --> 00:51:17,756
Speaker 1: they don't know that they're on a winning formula, just

860
00:51:17,916 --> 00:51:23,516
Speaker 1: like one one moment away from super Jackpot. Well, this

861
00:51:23,596 --> 00:51:26,436
Speaker 1: had less to do with it being a rock song.

862
00:51:26,636 --> 00:51:29,876
Speaker 1: Had more to do with singing someone else's words and

863
00:51:29,956 --> 00:51:32,636
Speaker 1: singing someone else's which they had never done before, and

864
00:51:32,756 --> 00:51:36,916
Speaker 1: singing someone else's words that they didn't necessarily like. How

865
00:51:36,956 --> 00:51:39,756
Speaker 1: long did that process take? Walk this way? I'm talking

866
00:51:41,356 --> 00:51:43,476
Speaker 1: same as everything you know, same as everything else. The

867
00:51:43,516 --> 00:51:46,316
Speaker 1: only thing that was different was because Steve and Joe

868
00:51:46,436 --> 00:51:49,556
Speaker 1: appeared on the record. There was an extra day working

869
00:51:49,596 --> 00:51:53,596
Speaker 1: on it with those guys playing guitar and singing, singing vocals,

870
00:51:53,716 --> 00:51:58,676
Speaker 1: the guys from Aosmith with the Beastie Boys. Well, first

871
00:51:58,676 --> 00:52:01,676
Speaker 1: of all, I want to know who introduced I have

872
00:52:01,796 --> 00:52:05,516
Speaker 1: so many questions. Number One, the Beastie Groove Rock Hard

873
00:52:05,796 --> 00:52:11,676
Speaker 1: twelve inch Who were the Latin Rascals because I've always

874
00:52:11,956 --> 00:52:14,756
Speaker 1: I've seen their names and like all these twelve inches

875
00:52:14,796 --> 00:52:19,116
Speaker 1: from eighty three to eighty five, and then poof Nothing,

876
00:52:19,156 --> 00:52:22,916
Speaker 1: who were the Latin Rascals? The Latin Rascals were two

877
00:52:23,476 --> 00:52:28,036
Speaker 1: club DJs who worked at Shakedown Arthur Arthur Baker's studio

878
00:52:28,796 --> 00:52:34,276
Speaker 1: who invented this is pre sampler. There were no samplers,

879
00:52:35,396 --> 00:52:40,756
Speaker 1: and they invented away. It was their own style of

880
00:52:40,796 --> 00:52:46,636
Speaker 1: doing remixes where they would do these edits on half

881
00:52:46,676 --> 00:52:51,876
Speaker 1: inch tape where they would repeat the same like dad

882
00:52:54,516 --> 00:52:58,236
Speaker 1: one through editing. So it was like it wasn't scratching.

883
00:52:59,156 --> 00:53:02,716
Speaker 1: There was no sampling yet, and there was this other

884
00:53:02,796 --> 00:53:07,436
Speaker 1: way of manipulating the music, and the Latin Rascals invented it,

885
00:53:07,716 --> 00:53:12,396
Speaker 1: and they did it on all of Arthur's records and

886
00:53:11,556 --> 00:53:14,436
Speaker 1: um and they did a lot of club remixes and that,

887
00:53:14,516 --> 00:53:17,156
Speaker 1: and I can't remember what they did on that. I

888
00:53:17,156 --> 00:53:19,676
Speaker 1: don't remember them doing anything on those, but it's possible.

889
00:53:19,756 --> 00:53:24,756
Speaker 1: On this Party's Getting Rough, that little see Philadelphia where

890
00:53:24,756 --> 00:53:28,956
Speaker 1: I come from, has a very different relationship with this

891
00:53:28,996 --> 00:53:32,756
Speaker 1: Party's getting rough and hold it now hit it, you know,

892
00:53:32,876 --> 00:53:36,876
Speaker 1: because Lady b and her Street By show that came

893
00:53:36,916 --> 00:53:39,796
Speaker 1: on a Power ninety nine between like twelve and five

894
00:53:40,036 --> 00:53:45,356
Speaker 1: pm on Sundays, they made they basically made an edit

895
00:53:45,756 --> 00:53:50,916
Speaker 1: where they would play that middle sketch of this Party's

896
00:53:50,916 --> 00:53:53,396
Speaker 1: Getting Rough where it's like, oh man, you just fested man, yo,

897
00:53:53,476 --> 00:53:56,196
Speaker 1: you you didn't even turn up the boombox and all

898
00:53:56,196 --> 00:54:00,876
Speaker 1: that stuff, all all all that chaos in the middle,

899
00:54:01,236 --> 00:54:04,036
Speaker 1: and then they attached I don't remember it. I don't

900
00:54:04,076 --> 00:54:06,596
Speaker 1: really remember man. Yeah, this is this like the Philly anthem.

901
00:54:06,676 --> 00:54:09,836
Speaker 1: So they made they kind of made an edit. Philly

902
00:54:09,836 --> 00:54:13,716
Speaker 1: made an editor of their own of this party's getting

903
00:54:13,796 --> 00:54:19,316
Speaker 1: rough and the Beastie groove and just between Latin rascals

904
00:54:19,316 --> 00:54:24,316
Speaker 1: and mantronics. Just the idea of like multiple sampling or

905
00:54:24,476 --> 00:54:28,276
Speaker 1: like those crazy edits. That's all we heard. But what's

906
00:54:28,316 --> 00:54:31,356
Speaker 1: even weirder for holding Now Hit It? Because of a

907
00:54:31,436 --> 00:54:35,476
Speaker 1: pressing mistake. The initial Deaf Jam pressings have hold It

908
00:54:35,516 --> 00:54:40,836
Speaker 1: Now Hit It had the acapella as side one, Yes,

909
00:54:41,676 --> 00:54:47,556
Speaker 1: had the acappella as side one, and the the DMX

910
00:54:47,836 --> 00:54:50,596
Speaker 1: drum Machine version that's on the album as side too.

911
00:54:51,396 --> 00:54:56,236
Speaker 1: We never heard of the drum machine version in Philly ever,

912
00:54:56,996 --> 00:54:59,556
Speaker 1: So when when they're playing hold It, Now Hit It,

913
00:55:00,276 --> 00:55:03,156
Speaker 1: there's no such thing as an acappella or you juggling

914
00:55:03,196 --> 00:55:07,676
Speaker 1: called it acapulco version. Yeah, and we thought, yo, dude,

915
00:55:07,756 --> 00:55:09,996
Speaker 1: it was such. It was the most radical shit we

916
00:55:10,036 --> 00:55:13,156
Speaker 1: ever heard. Because our thing was like the only way

917
00:55:13,156 --> 00:55:15,116
Speaker 1: I can to describe it is if you ever seen

918
00:55:15,116 --> 00:55:19,676
Speaker 1: Pootie Tang And when Chris Rock asked, the DJ introduces

919
00:55:19,716 --> 00:55:23,396
Speaker 1: that song of silence, like and now this new song. Yeah,

920
00:55:28,756 --> 00:55:30,996
Speaker 1: I'm just saying he's friends with Chris Rock. I don't

921
00:55:31,036 --> 00:55:33,836
Speaker 1: know anyway. The whole point was that we made up

922
00:55:33,836 --> 00:55:38,116
Speaker 1: in our minds like, yo, these dudes are so incredible

923
00:55:38,316 --> 00:55:42,956
Speaker 1: they don't even need music and hold it now hit it.

924
00:55:43,036 --> 00:55:47,356
Speaker 1: The acapella was number one on the Power nine at

925
00:55:47,476 --> 00:55:52,436
Speaker 1: nine for months. Wow, to the point where when we

926
00:55:52,636 --> 00:55:55,916
Speaker 1: got the album and heard that drum. Now, it's weird

927
00:55:56,156 --> 00:56:00,516
Speaker 1: because in Florida, every everyone from down south, I know,

928
00:56:00,596 --> 00:56:03,596
Speaker 1: even Premier tells the story like when you're getting your

929
00:56:03,596 --> 00:56:07,676
Speaker 1: car system, the song that you tested to see if

930
00:56:07,676 --> 00:56:12,956
Speaker 1: you're if you're almost rights holding now hit it because

931
00:56:12,996 --> 00:56:16,756
Speaker 1: you like you mix your your joints loud as fuck.

932
00:56:17,876 --> 00:56:19,796
Speaker 1: When we got that in Philly, we didn't know what

933
00:56:19,876 --> 00:56:22,836
Speaker 1: the like, Yo, what's this drum? Shit like this ain't

934
00:56:22,876 --> 00:56:25,796
Speaker 1: on the album. To this day, I will never acknowledge

935
00:56:26,396 --> 00:56:29,676
Speaker 1: the album version of holding Out Hit I will only

936
00:56:29,796 --> 00:56:33,596
Speaker 1: DJ the acapella version, but even love to hear I've

937
00:56:33,596 --> 00:56:35,716
Speaker 1: never heard the acapella version. I'd love to hear it.

938
00:56:35,876 --> 00:56:39,236
Speaker 1: I don't remember ever hearing it. Bet it's great, probably better,

939
00:56:39,396 --> 00:56:45,996
Speaker 1: that's crazy. It's your labels. It's the first acapella in

940
00:56:46,116 --> 00:56:52,596
Speaker 1: history like that, Yeah, it's the first acapoca in history.

941
00:56:52,836 --> 00:56:57,316
Speaker 1: And in working their album, like how involved are you

942
00:56:57,436 --> 00:57:01,436
Speaker 1: with with the marketing? And because I'll be honest with you,

943
00:57:01,756 --> 00:57:05,196
Speaker 1: we for two years from eighty five till we purchased

944
00:57:05,196 --> 00:57:07,916
Speaker 1: the album and saw the gatefold cover. I didn't know

945
00:57:07,956 --> 00:57:10,636
Speaker 1: the Best boys were white. We thought they were Puerto

946
00:57:10,716 --> 00:57:16,396
Speaker 1: Rican affili at least, So was that by design to

947
00:57:16,756 --> 00:57:19,756
Speaker 1: like not put them on the album cover and just

948
00:57:19,836 --> 00:57:23,036
Speaker 1: to ride it out till not at all the way

949
00:57:23,076 --> 00:57:25,516
Speaker 1: we did it. We didn't. We never even thought about it.

950
00:57:26,196 --> 00:57:32,356
Speaker 1: On the seven original def Jam singles, the Maroon label singles,

951
00:57:32,956 --> 00:57:36,076
Speaker 1: of which where rock Hard was one of those, I

952
00:57:36,076 --> 00:57:38,916
Speaker 1: think that's the only BC record that was in those

953
00:57:39,916 --> 00:57:43,716
Speaker 1: There was an LLL. There was that. There was Hollis Creek,

954
00:57:44,076 --> 00:57:49,956
Speaker 1: Hollis Crewe, Jimmy Spicer' I'm a Girl Watcher with Papa

955
00:57:50,036 --> 00:57:53,436
Speaker 1: d and Papa Son. I don't think that was on Maroon.

956
00:57:54,836 --> 00:57:59,996
Speaker 1: Oh okay, well there was also mcam Bazooti. Yeah, yeah,

957
00:58:00,316 --> 00:58:02,676
Speaker 1: Zooti is an engineer in New York named Jay Burnett,

958
00:58:03,276 --> 00:58:05,196
Speaker 1: and he was the guy who turned me onto the

959
00:58:05,236 --> 00:58:11,956
Speaker 1: studio that we lovingly renamed Chung King. The original, the

960
00:58:11,956 --> 00:58:16,276
Speaker 1: original chunking, the unking Wow. Yeah. And the reason I

961
00:58:16,316 --> 00:58:18,476
Speaker 1: called it chun King was I didn't want anyone to

962
00:58:18,516 --> 00:58:20,636
Speaker 1: know that it was such a terrible place that we

963
00:58:20,636 --> 00:58:23,236
Speaker 1: were working in, so I made up Chunking. House of

964
00:58:23,236 --> 00:58:27,796
Speaker 1: Metal was like a just the one or the other,

965
00:58:28,676 --> 00:58:38,836
Speaker 1: the one on There was one it was on was

966
00:58:38,876 --> 00:58:42,636
Speaker 1: a church between Broom and Grand something like that. Across

967
00:58:42,676 --> 00:58:44,596
Speaker 1: from the pool. There's that police building, you know, the

968
00:58:44,636 --> 00:58:48,396
Speaker 1: police building. It was on mat block, five floor walk up.

969
00:58:48,556 --> 00:58:51,996
Speaker 1: The rest of the building were like sweatshops. It was

970
00:58:51,996 --> 00:58:54,596
Speaker 1: a really weird place. It was it really Again, I

971
00:58:54,636 --> 00:58:56,956
Speaker 1: didn't know this because I wasn't into it, but it

972
00:58:56,996 --> 00:59:01,516
Speaker 1: was just a drug dealing place they had They just

973
00:59:01,636 --> 00:59:03,676
Speaker 1: had a studio, but it was mainly drug dealing. But

974
00:59:03,676 --> 00:59:10,956
Speaker 1: I didn't know that those Steve Yes, you know, speaking

975
00:59:10,956 --> 00:59:13,516
Speaker 1: of which you know, I don't mean that I was

976
00:59:13,556 --> 00:59:16,396
Speaker 1: just I'm reminiscent. I think I think I was at

977
00:59:16,436 --> 00:59:20,116
Speaker 1: that place dropping off tapes at first as an intern. Yeah,

978
00:59:20,116 --> 00:59:23,356
Speaker 1: the first place. Yeah, it was, I was only there ONCET.

979
00:59:24,036 --> 00:59:29,116
Speaker 1: But we recorded, um, all of the BCT boys stuff there.

980
00:59:29,116 --> 00:59:33,396
Speaker 1: We recorded raising hell there recorded a lot of the

981
00:59:33,396 --> 00:59:36,116
Speaker 1: early def jam stuff there, maybe all of it, maybe

982
00:59:36,116 --> 00:59:38,596
Speaker 1: all of it. I was gonna say, Steve, that that

983
00:59:38,836 --> 00:59:46,396
Speaker 1: DMX dram machine that's taking in our studio. Yeah, that's ricks. Yeah,

984
00:59:46,476 --> 00:59:49,396
Speaker 1: I know, I know this is all tell the world,

985
00:59:49,516 --> 00:59:53,756
Speaker 1: but you know, I mean that in this room. Okay?

986
00:59:53,956 --> 00:59:58,316
Speaker 1: Is that a stolen or no? Um? We know, is it?

987
00:59:59,036 --> 01:00:01,716
Speaker 1: You know what? We had to re record. I can't

988
01:00:01,836 --> 01:00:05,676
Speaker 1: right left handed with John Legend, and we were running

989
01:00:05,676 --> 01:00:08,556
Speaker 1: out of studios and it just so happens that that

990
01:00:08,636 --> 01:00:10,676
Speaker 1: was open. And when we got there, we were told

991
01:00:10,796 --> 01:00:14,076
Speaker 1: this is our last day and kind of you know,

992
01:00:14,276 --> 01:00:15,996
Speaker 1: I was just like doing my fan boys thing like,

993
01:00:16,076 --> 01:00:18,596
Speaker 1: oh my god, this is the old Chunk King and no, no,

994
01:00:18,676 --> 01:00:21,036
Speaker 1: no no. And whoever the owner was a guy he's

995
01:00:21,036 --> 01:00:23,876
Speaker 1: like just like on some Me and Joe Green here

996
01:00:23,876 --> 01:00:28,396
Speaker 1: a kid catch um wow, he showed me this season

997
01:00:28,556 --> 01:00:31,396
Speaker 1: is this DMX And he's just created you know, all

998
01:00:31,396 --> 01:00:33,876
Speaker 1: the deaf jam days has been here forever. You know,

999
01:00:33,916 --> 01:00:37,956
Speaker 1: you'll take care of this and I took it. Sorry

1000
01:00:37,996 --> 01:00:46,196
Speaker 1: Vitt anyway, may that may or may not be true. Well,

1001
01:00:47,916 --> 01:00:53,236
Speaker 1: I'm sure there's multiple I'm sure there's multiple DMX drum scenes,

1002
01:00:53,236 --> 01:00:56,476
Speaker 1: but I prefer my version of it. Um was the

1003
01:00:56,716 --> 01:01:00,316
Speaker 1: was the just the floodgate of License to Ill? Was

1004
01:01:00,356 --> 01:01:03,236
Speaker 1: that scary to you or overwhelming at the time? And

1005
01:01:03,956 --> 01:01:07,276
Speaker 1: how are you guys treated by Columbia Records? By this

1006
01:01:07,356 --> 01:01:13,556
Speaker 1: point we would never eated well by anybody, even when

1007
01:01:13,716 --> 01:01:23,316
Speaker 1: selling twelve million units? Yes, even then, man? Really why so?

1008
01:01:23,356 --> 01:01:24,956
Speaker 1: He was still we were off the red nose the rain.

1009
01:01:25,596 --> 01:01:29,836
Speaker 1: I mean it was yet Nikoff period. Was this uh

1010
01:01:29,956 --> 01:01:33,436
Speaker 1: Montola period? Like where was yet nikoffin a'l teller? Those

1011
01:01:33,476 --> 01:01:36,516
Speaker 1: were the people that I don't teller from MCA was

1012
01:01:36,596 --> 01:01:40,196
Speaker 1: at Columbia first. He was the president of Columbia at

1013
01:01:40,196 --> 01:01:43,076
Speaker 1: the time that we were there. Damn. The only person

1014
01:01:43,156 --> 01:01:45,596
Speaker 1: that I ever really dealt with on a regular basis

1015
01:01:45,636 --> 01:01:47,396
Speaker 1: was Jeff Jones, who was a great guy. He was

1016
01:01:47,396 --> 01:01:51,276
Speaker 1: a product manager and he now runs Apple Records for

1017
01:01:51,316 --> 01:01:54,396
Speaker 1: the Beatles based in London, and he's still around and

1018
01:01:54,436 --> 01:01:58,116
Speaker 1: he remembers, like he told me stories of things that

1019
01:01:58,196 --> 01:02:00,596
Speaker 1: happened back then that I didn't remember. But it was funny,

1020
01:02:00,836 --> 01:02:04,796
Speaker 1: like like with License to Ill? He said he goes

1021
01:02:04,836 --> 01:02:06,956
Speaker 1: into a meeting, is like, well, Rick Rubin says, we

1022
01:02:06,996 --> 01:02:08,916
Speaker 1: can't put a bar code on the outside of the cover,

1023
01:02:09,876 --> 01:02:11,396
Speaker 1: and uh, you know, we have to figure out how

1024
01:02:11,436 --> 01:02:13,276
Speaker 1: we're going to do this because we've never done this before.

1025
01:02:13,756 --> 01:02:15,596
Speaker 1: And that, you know, the people in the meeting like,

1026
01:02:15,636 --> 01:02:17,356
Speaker 1: who the fuck is Rick Rubin? What do you mean?

1027
01:02:17,396 --> 01:02:19,556
Speaker 1: It's like, we do this all, we're doing this. Of

1028
01:02:19,556 --> 01:02:21,716
Speaker 1: course it's going to have a barcode. He's like, no,

1029
01:02:21,796 --> 01:02:23,796
Speaker 1: but Rick won't let us have the barcode. He's like,

1030
01:02:23,836 --> 01:02:28,076
Speaker 1: he's insistent. So again, I had no memory of that.

1031
01:02:28,156 --> 01:02:31,476
Speaker 1: But we would fight, We would fight for the art,

1032
01:02:31,556 --> 01:02:33,196
Speaker 1: to get the art the way we want it all

1033
01:02:33,236 --> 01:02:35,196
Speaker 1: the time, and people just didn't know what it was,

1034
01:02:35,436 --> 01:02:37,716
Speaker 1: you know, you say, it's very little understanding of what

1035
01:02:37,756 --> 01:02:40,556
Speaker 1: it was that we were doing. Who conceptualize the album

1036
01:02:40,596 --> 01:02:45,396
Speaker 1: cover for License to Ill? That was me, I'll tell you.

1037
01:02:46,036 --> 01:02:50,356
Speaker 1: I had just read the led Zeppelin book Camera the

1038
01:02:50,396 --> 01:02:54,636
Speaker 1: Gods about them being on torn all the debauchery of

1039
01:02:55,316 --> 01:03:01,236
Speaker 1: crazy rock stardom and I and there were images of

1040
01:03:01,316 --> 01:03:05,796
Speaker 1: led Zeppelin's airplane in the book, and it just seemed like, wow,

1041
01:03:05,836 --> 01:03:09,956
Speaker 1: that's just like the height of decadence. This an airplane

1042
01:03:10,116 --> 01:03:13,796
Speaker 1: at with this crazy rock and roll lifestyle going on,

1043
01:03:14,476 --> 01:03:17,596
Speaker 1: and I thought it would be interesting to have a

1044
01:03:17,716 --> 01:03:21,676
Speaker 1: Beastie Boy, a Beastie Boy airplane representing this sort of

1045
01:03:22,196 --> 01:03:24,596
Speaker 1: crazy debauchery all made up. You know, none of this

1046
01:03:24,676 --> 01:03:27,276
Speaker 1: was true. We were kids, we were kids in school.

1047
01:03:27,316 --> 01:03:30,156
Speaker 1: You know, this was none of this was accurate. This

1048
01:03:30,236 --> 01:03:35,596
Speaker 1: was a fantasy based on loving, loving led Zeppelin. It

1049
01:03:35,636 --> 01:03:39,076
Speaker 1: was the fantasy of, well, what about a Beastie Boys

1050
01:03:39,156 --> 01:03:44,476
Speaker 1: jumbo jet that rams into a mountain like that? That's

1051
01:03:44,516 --> 01:03:48,356
Speaker 1: like the way the story ends is the it goes

1052
01:03:48,356 --> 01:03:51,356
Speaker 1: with this crazy rock and roll lifestyle. And I thought, well,

1053
01:03:51,636 --> 01:03:54,236
Speaker 1: because it would be a gatefold, it'd be like you'd

1054
01:03:54,276 --> 01:03:56,116
Speaker 1: see the front of it and you'd think it was

1055
01:03:56,916 --> 01:03:58,956
Speaker 1: you'd just think it was an airplane, and then you'd

1056
01:03:58,956 --> 01:04:00,956
Speaker 1: open it up and you'd get the reveal of the

1057
01:04:00,996 --> 01:04:03,716
Speaker 1: back and then yeah. And then when I would drive

1058
01:04:03,796 --> 01:04:06,596
Speaker 1: from my parents' house on Long Island into the city,

1059
01:04:06,636 --> 01:04:12,436
Speaker 1: I would always pass the globe um from the that's

1060
01:04:12,436 --> 01:04:14,956
Speaker 1: in the centerfold, and I was thought, oh, it'd be great,

1061
01:04:14,996 --> 01:04:17,836
Speaker 1: like someday that would be a great thing to use

1062
01:04:17,876 --> 01:04:20,676
Speaker 1: in a photograph. And then the opportunity was with the

1063
01:04:20,676 --> 01:04:25,596
Speaker 1: Beastie Boys in the inner sleeve. Has anyone ever you know,

1064
01:04:25,636 --> 01:04:28,156
Speaker 1: it's weird when I've seen it. I remember getting the

1065
01:04:28,196 --> 01:04:31,996
Speaker 1: album like Thanksgiving of eighty six, so I would like

1066
01:04:32,036 --> 01:04:33,676
Speaker 1: to think that I think the album came out in

1067
01:04:33,716 --> 01:04:39,156
Speaker 1: November of eighty six, like late November. Um, but this happened.

1068
01:04:39,996 --> 01:04:43,716
Speaker 1: The album cover occurred like nine months after the Space

1069
01:04:43,756 --> 01:04:48,676
Speaker 1: Settle Challenge thing. The challengers join the challenge like traumatize

1070
01:04:48,716 --> 01:04:54,956
Speaker 1: the shit out of me in kindergarten, yo, Yeah, and like,

1071
01:04:55,236 --> 01:04:59,636
Speaker 1: so to that album and see that crash, like just

1072
01:04:59,716 --> 01:05:03,636
Speaker 1: traumatize me even more. So it's weird, Like I have

1073
01:05:03,756 --> 01:05:08,036
Speaker 1: this love, this love relationship with with the album because

1074
01:05:08,036 --> 01:05:12,156
Speaker 1: it's so you know, monumental, but it's like, ah, the Knights.

1075
01:05:12,196 --> 01:05:14,836
Speaker 1: I just looked at that album cover like, ah, it's

1076
01:05:14,916 --> 01:05:17,196
Speaker 1: killing me. I didn't I didn't know about the crash,

1077
01:05:17,316 --> 01:05:21,556
Speaker 1: and it didn't I'll tell you now, And I knew

1078
01:05:21,556 --> 01:05:23,236
Speaker 1: it at the time, but I didn't know enough to

1079
01:05:23,276 --> 01:05:26,316
Speaker 1: be able to get it the way I really wanted it.

1080
01:05:26,716 --> 01:05:29,476
Speaker 1: But it never was the way I really wanted it,

1081
01:05:29,476 --> 01:05:31,676
Speaker 1: which was I wanted it to look more really like

1082
01:05:31,716 --> 01:05:34,756
Speaker 1: a photograph, and instead it looks more like a Mad

1083
01:05:34,836 --> 01:05:38,956
Speaker 1: magazine cover cartoon like it. It's more cartoony looking than

1084
01:05:39,036 --> 01:05:40,956
Speaker 1: I would have liked it to be. I would have

1085
01:05:40,996 --> 01:05:46,476
Speaker 1: liked it to be like photo realists. The artist that

1086
01:05:46,556 --> 01:05:48,916
Speaker 1: drew it, was he a friend of yours or no, no,

1087
01:05:48,996 --> 01:05:52,276
Speaker 1: he was a friend of um. The guy who was

1088
01:05:52,356 --> 01:05:57,796
Speaker 1: our art director at the label, Steve Byrom was his name,

1089
01:05:58,276 --> 01:06:00,796
Speaker 1: And I would just say, hey, this is the vision

1090
01:06:00,836 --> 01:06:02,956
Speaker 1: for the cover. How do we get this made? And

1091
01:06:02,996 --> 01:06:06,436
Speaker 1: then he had his friend he commissioned it. But which

1092
01:06:06,516 --> 01:06:08,036
Speaker 1: is why it didn't come out the way I wanted

1093
01:06:08,076 --> 01:06:10,156
Speaker 1: it to come out. You know, it's so you've seen it.

1094
01:06:10,236 --> 01:06:14,276
Speaker 1: We're disappointed. Yeah, I said, this isn't really It's like

1095
01:06:14,316 --> 01:06:17,796
Speaker 1: the image is right, but the way it was done

1096
01:06:17,996 --> 01:06:20,436
Speaker 1: was not right. It felt more like a cartoon. But

1097
01:06:20,476 --> 01:06:22,796
Speaker 1: it was like, well, you know, the album's coming out

1098
01:06:22,836 --> 01:06:25,436
Speaker 1: and we have no time. It's like okay. And and

1099
01:06:25,516 --> 01:06:28,196
Speaker 1: to eat meat that was not that was a creative

1100
01:06:28,236 --> 01:06:31,076
Speaker 1: like the eating that I didn't That was not my idea.

1101
01:06:31,196 --> 01:06:33,796
Speaker 1: But so what did you think about Eminem's arm? But

1102
01:06:33,876 --> 01:06:37,076
Speaker 1: then I forgot you produced that? You produced that? Did

1103
01:06:37,156 --> 01:06:38,556
Speaker 1: you talk him to do it or did he say

1104
01:06:38,556 --> 01:06:41,996
Speaker 1: I want to watch you one Eminem's album, Uh not

1105
01:06:42,036 --> 01:06:43,596
Speaker 1: abuse it to be murdered by It was the one

1106
01:06:43,636 --> 01:06:49,196
Speaker 1: before that one. It was the Recovery. That wasn't Recovery.

1107
01:06:49,476 --> 01:06:52,956
Speaker 1: It just came out like a year or two ago. Oh,

1108
01:06:52,996 --> 01:06:56,276
Speaker 1: I'm looking right, produce that? Wait? Which was you to

1109
01:06:56,356 --> 01:06:58,236
Speaker 1: my question, which is Rick, how do you pick your

1110
01:06:58,236 --> 01:07:01,356
Speaker 1: projects just based on liking him, like either liking the

1111
01:07:01,436 --> 01:07:03,236
Speaker 1: music or liking the artists one or the other. Like

1112
01:07:03,316 --> 01:07:07,476
Speaker 1: Kama Kazi, Sorry, Kamakazi, that was it? Yeah, it just

1113
01:07:07,476 --> 01:07:11,156
Speaker 1: didn't produce that. Oh I thought you produced the last

1114
01:07:12,356 --> 01:07:17,916
Speaker 1: Karmic Kazi. Yikes, Okay, I stand corrected. Well, tribute to

1115
01:07:17,956 --> 01:07:22,076
Speaker 1: you License to Ill so oh cool? Yeah, as as

1116
01:07:22,076 --> 01:07:24,756
Speaker 1: an album cover. Just on the back of Bill's question, Rick,

1117
01:07:24,836 --> 01:07:27,396
Speaker 1: how come you only did one? I've noticed you only

1118
01:07:27,396 --> 01:07:30,076
Speaker 1: did the Andrew Dice Clay album, like that was your

1119
01:07:30,076 --> 01:07:33,116
Speaker 1: only comedian that you work with? Well, we did. I

1120
01:07:33,116 --> 01:07:35,556
Speaker 1: think we did five five Andrew Dice Clay alum right,

1121
01:07:36,196 --> 01:07:39,676
Speaker 1: and I always looked for other comedians to work with

1122
01:07:39,756 --> 01:07:43,236
Speaker 1: but never found there was At one point I was

1123
01:07:43,476 --> 01:07:47,476
Speaker 1: interested in recording Carlos Mencia. I don't know, yeah, yeah,

1124
01:07:48,796 --> 01:07:51,316
Speaker 1: and I think we like started talking about it, maybe

1125
01:07:51,356 --> 01:07:54,396
Speaker 1: even recorded a little bit, but it just never never

1126
01:07:54,516 --> 01:07:57,556
Speaker 1: came together for whatever reason. Have you got any more

1127
01:07:57,596 --> 01:08:02,116
Speaker 1: requests though? I'm comedian wise, well, I loved Gerard. I

1128
01:08:02,156 --> 01:08:05,596
Speaker 1: think he's incredible. I've never thought about him doing an album,

1129
01:08:05,596 --> 01:08:08,916
Speaker 1: but that's a really interesting idea. Okay, he wants it.

1130
01:08:09,116 --> 01:08:13,036
Speaker 1: I'm sorry. How long did you have to bug public

1131
01:08:13,036 --> 01:08:15,796
Speaker 1: get him me until Chuck finally relented and signed to

1132
01:08:15,836 --> 01:08:18,716
Speaker 1: the label. It was a really long time. It was

1133
01:08:18,756 --> 01:08:21,596
Speaker 1: a long time. I want to say it felt like

1134
01:08:21,716 --> 01:08:25,236
Speaker 1: forever then, but it was probably nine months, maybe a year,

1135
01:08:25,756 --> 01:08:28,156
Speaker 1: but for at you know, when you're twenty years old,

1136
01:08:28,156 --> 01:08:32,676
Speaker 1: a year is forever. No, that's a long time. And

1137
01:08:32,796 --> 01:08:36,276
Speaker 1: they had to post it note of Chuck's number next

1138
01:08:36,276 --> 01:08:38,796
Speaker 1: to my phone, and anytime I would walk by the phone,

1139
01:08:38,796 --> 01:08:42,116
Speaker 1: i'd see it and I would call. And then Bill Stephanie,

1140
01:08:42,116 --> 01:08:45,516
Speaker 1: who was our first employee at def Jam, he knew Chuck,

1141
01:08:45,836 --> 01:08:48,236
Speaker 1: and at one point I got so frustrated, I said,

1142
01:08:48,636 --> 01:08:51,316
Speaker 1: you have to tell Chuck. If he doesn't sign to

1143
01:08:51,396 --> 01:08:56,556
Speaker 1: def JAM, I'm firing you. Like, you have to convince

1144
01:08:56,636 --> 01:08:59,716
Speaker 1: him he has to do this. And it's not like

1145
01:08:59,756 --> 01:09:01,436
Speaker 1: he wanted to sign to someone else. He didn't want

1146
01:09:01,476 --> 01:09:03,716
Speaker 1: to make records. That was the thing. It's like he

1147
01:09:03,796 --> 01:09:06,796
Speaker 1: was too old. He thought he was too old. How

1148
01:09:06,796 --> 01:09:09,036
Speaker 1: did you How did you feel about the Bomb squads

1149
01:09:09,156 --> 01:09:13,156
Speaker 1: production methods, because that's the total opposite of your reduction

1150
01:09:13,916 --> 01:09:17,316
Speaker 1: love Brooch loved it. I like I like different things,

1151
01:09:17,396 --> 01:09:19,836
Speaker 1: you know, I'm not. I like all kinds of different things.

1152
01:09:20,516 --> 01:09:24,836
Speaker 1: I actually heard something on your on your James Brown

1153
01:09:25,996 --> 01:09:32,236
Speaker 1: recent DJ set, right, maybe it was night two if

1154
01:09:32,276 --> 01:09:35,596
Speaker 1: I remember correctly, for the first time, I heard what

1155
01:09:35,716 --> 01:09:38,556
Speaker 1: I think was the inspiration for the Bomb Squad that

1156
01:09:38,636 --> 01:09:42,396
Speaker 1: I'd never heard before. Wow, I have to find I'll

1157
01:09:42,436 --> 01:09:44,076
Speaker 1: find it and send it to you, just so you

1158
01:09:44,116 --> 01:09:47,156
Speaker 1: have for your own reference. I think you pieced, you

1159
01:09:47,236 --> 01:09:49,276
Speaker 1: put the pieces of a puzzle together from me that

1160
01:09:49,316 --> 01:09:55,236
Speaker 1: I never knew were there. You know, during this period

1161
01:09:55,396 --> 01:09:58,956
Speaker 1: at least between eighty six and eighty nine, I mean

1162
01:09:59,636 --> 01:10:02,796
Speaker 1: between your work with LLL and I am curious as

1163
01:10:02,836 --> 01:10:06,876
Speaker 1: to why you did not produce bigger than ever. And

1164
01:10:06,956 --> 01:10:08,836
Speaker 1: I always wanted to know how you felt about like

1165
01:10:09,156 --> 01:10:11,636
Speaker 1: the La Posse and I Need Love and all that stuff.

1166
01:10:12,316 --> 01:10:15,756
Speaker 1: But you're doing these Slayer records and not to mention

1167
01:10:15,876 --> 01:10:18,236
Speaker 1: like I mean, your heart meant like, how what is

1168
01:10:18,276 --> 01:10:22,196
Speaker 1: your approach to Are you just leading from the gut

1169
01:10:22,316 --> 01:10:25,356
Speaker 1: or do you have like a mapped out plan that

1170
01:10:25,396 --> 01:10:28,716
Speaker 1: you're explaining to the group. This is the vision I

1171
01:10:28,756 --> 01:10:30,556
Speaker 1: have for you, Like, how do you work with Slayer?

1172
01:10:31,116 --> 01:10:34,276
Speaker 1: Just going into the studio and first going into pre

1173
01:10:34,316 --> 01:10:37,596
Speaker 1: production talking about the parts in the songs, helping make

1174
01:10:37,636 --> 01:10:39,956
Speaker 1: them as good as they could be, and then figuring

1175
01:10:39,956 --> 01:10:43,716
Speaker 1: out how to In their case, it was interesting because

1176
01:10:44,436 --> 01:10:48,956
Speaker 1: they already were popular, a popular underground band. Like the

1177
01:10:49,076 --> 01:10:51,156
Speaker 1: night I saw them, they sold out the Ritz, which

1178
01:10:51,196 --> 01:10:54,996
Speaker 1: is pretty substantial place. I saw them at the Ritz.

1179
01:10:55,316 --> 01:10:58,076
Speaker 1: Blew my mind. It's like, I like heavy music. I

1180
01:10:58,156 --> 01:11:00,756
Speaker 1: never heard of these guys before, and this was one

1181
01:11:00,756 --> 01:11:03,796
Speaker 1: of the craziest, heaviest concerts I've ever seen in my life.

1182
01:11:03,796 --> 01:11:07,916
Speaker 1: How is this? It's like a parallel universe that this exists.

1183
01:11:08,756 --> 01:11:10,676
Speaker 1: And um and I talked to them that night after

1184
01:11:10,716 --> 01:11:12,836
Speaker 1: the show and then ended up flying out and meeting

1185
01:11:12,876 --> 01:11:16,676
Speaker 1: him in California after that. Who was their drummer? Because

1186
01:11:16,876 --> 01:11:20,636
Speaker 1: I've never heard I've never heard someone play double kick

1187
01:11:20,756 --> 01:11:26,996
Speaker 1: that intense. Yeah, And you know, not not only is

1188
01:11:26,996 --> 01:11:33,076
Speaker 1: it intense, it's funky. That's the He's the only of

1189
01:11:33,316 --> 01:11:35,796
Speaker 1: all the heavy metal drummers I've ever heard who play

1190
01:11:35,836 --> 01:11:39,596
Speaker 1: in that double kick drum style. He's the only one

1191
01:11:39,876 --> 01:11:47,236
Speaker 1: where it's groovy maybe Lars who else thing though that's

1192
01:11:47,276 --> 01:11:52,396
Speaker 1: not what Lars does. Okay, that's not what Lar does groovy,

1193
01:11:52,596 --> 01:11:55,316
Speaker 1: Lars does something else. So Ar someone like a pro fast,

1194
01:11:55,356 --> 01:11:58,116
Speaker 1: prog rock drummer. So some kid at school puts me

1195
01:11:58,156 --> 01:12:01,236
Speaker 1: on you know, by the time I get Nation of Millions,

1196
01:12:01,276 --> 01:12:04,756
Speaker 1: some kid puts me onto Rain and Blood and then

1197
01:12:05,156 --> 01:12:09,396
Speaker 1: uh plays yeah, yeah she You know when I was

1198
01:12:09,396 --> 01:12:11,716
Speaker 1: listening to see and they're like, well, you know that's

1199
01:12:11,756 --> 01:12:14,396
Speaker 1: that's a Slayer song and playing the original join and

1200
01:12:14,396 --> 01:12:17,356
Speaker 1: then like I started buying the records just as a completest.

1201
01:12:17,516 --> 01:12:20,916
Speaker 1: But yeah, trying to play that ship because there was

1202
01:12:20,916 --> 01:12:23,996
Speaker 1: like a hard rock band that I joined, like in

1203
01:12:24,076 --> 01:12:26,956
Speaker 1: high school for like four months, but I quit because

1204
01:12:27,076 --> 01:12:30,276
Speaker 1: like I can't do double foot action that good. But

1205
01:12:30,356 --> 01:12:34,476
Speaker 1: it's like, how did you capture those performances? Like are

1206
01:12:34,476 --> 01:12:37,436
Speaker 1: there jam sessions? Are there? Like guys, here's a course,

1207
01:12:38,036 --> 01:12:40,356
Speaker 1: let's or is it just like okay, open to e

1208
01:12:41,116 --> 01:12:44,436
Speaker 1: open just boss the wall go no, no, no, no no.

1209
01:12:44,516 --> 01:12:49,196
Speaker 1: They wrote the songs. I came in. I said, maybe

1210
01:12:49,196 --> 01:12:51,956
Speaker 1: this part's too long, maybe this part's too short, maybe

1211
01:12:51,956 --> 01:12:54,836
Speaker 1: we need another part here. But very it's all them.

1212
01:12:54,996 --> 01:12:59,636
Speaker 1: It's all them and Slayer were unbelievable, and then it

1213
01:12:59,676 --> 01:13:02,196
Speaker 1: was just properly recording them in a way not to

1214
01:13:02,196 --> 01:13:06,956
Speaker 1: screw it up. And here was a big breakthrough. Sonic

1215
01:13:06,996 --> 01:13:11,156
Speaker 1: breakthrough in my mind, was the only records you could

1216
01:13:11,196 --> 01:13:14,236
Speaker 1: hear that were that approach that speed at that time

1217
01:13:14,676 --> 01:13:17,556
Speaker 1: would be like Metallica's first record. I think that's all

1218
01:13:17,596 --> 01:13:21,916
Speaker 1: that was out. I don't even think their second record. Yeah,

1219
01:13:22,476 --> 01:13:27,796
Speaker 1: but Metallica, those records were recorded like a traditional rock band,

1220
01:13:29,076 --> 01:13:31,196
Speaker 1: which again it like it goes back to the hip

1221
01:13:31,276 --> 01:13:35,316
Speaker 1: hop argument in the beginning. It's like nobody's looking at

1222
01:13:35,356 --> 01:13:37,756
Speaker 1: the thing for what it is, to make it the

1223
01:13:37,796 --> 01:13:40,516
Speaker 1: best version of what it is. People are looking at okay. Well,

1224
01:13:40,916 --> 01:13:44,676
Speaker 1: on rock records, we use big drum sounds with long

1225
01:13:45,156 --> 01:13:50,516
Speaker 1: with long um reverbs. Yeah, long sounds, and that's what

1226
01:13:50,636 --> 01:13:53,476
Speaker 1: makes them sound big. But if you're playing fast, and

1227
01:13:53,516 --> 01:13:56,436
Speaker 1: if you do that, it's just a blur. You don't

1228
01:13:56,476 --> 01:14:02,116
Speaker 1: hear anything, it's just out exactly, So I'm looking at okay,

1229
01:14:02,116 --> 01:14:05,516
Speaker 1: this band's incredible and they play tight and fast, And

1230
01:14:05,556 --> 01:14:08,476
Speaker 1: the key is how do we get it to sound

1231
01:14:08,596 --> 01:14:14,596
Speaker 1: like like you're listening to them with a magnifying glass,

1232
01:14:15,356 --> 01:14:19,876
Speaker 1: not how do you blend it together into an Impressionist painting.

1233
01:14:21,876 --> 01:14:25,396
Speaker 1: So in the case of Slayer, it was, okay, how

1234
01:14:25,396 --> 01:14:29,236
Speaker 1: do we make the drums sounds super tight, super tiny

1235
01:14:30,116 --> 01:14:33,676
Speaker 1: because the speed of the drums, the only way you're

1236
01:14:33,676 --> 01:14:36,756
Speaker 1: going to even be able to hear it is if

1237
01:14:36,796 --> 01:14:43,876
Speaker 1: they're basically taps, you know, like tiny little taps. So

1238
01:14:43,916 --> 01:14:45,756
Speaker 1: it really a lot of it has to do with

1239
01:14:46,036 --> 01:14:50,516
Speaker 1: in each of these cases of the things that I've

1240
01:14:50,916 --> 01:14:52,716
Speaker 1: on the records where I've worked on where they sound

1241
01:14:52,716 --> 01:14:55,076
Speaker 1: different than the records that came before them, it was

1242
01:14:55,156 --> 01:14:58,396
Speaker 1: only looking at them for what they are and figuring out,

1243
01:14:58,396 --> 01:15:00,916
Speaker 1: how do we make this thing sound good? Not how

1244
01:15:00,916 --> 01:15:02,996
Speaker 1: do we use the baggage of the past, how do

1245
01:15:03,036 --> 01:15:06,436
Speaker 1: we apply old methods to this? It's how do we

1246
01:15:07,036 --> 01:15:10,036
Speaker 1: what's right for what this is? So how do you

1247
01:15:10,116 --> 01:15:16,156
Speaker 1: know the difference between what to give a Slayer as

1248
01:15:16,156 --> 01:15:18,836
Speaker 1: opposed to like the word that you did with the

1249
01:15:18,956 --> 01:15:22,596
Speaker 1: call As far as rock sounds are concerned, Now I

1250
01:15:22,676 --> 01:15:26,876
Speaker 1: know you know, like how much research do you have

1251
01:15:26,956 --> 01:15:30,636
Speaker 1: to put into the acts that you work with to

1252
01:15:30,676 --> 01:15:34,436
Speaker 1: know what their strengths and their weaknesses are. I put

1253
01:15:34,436 --> 01:15:38,596
Speaker 1: no research in whatsoever. But the research that I do

1254
01:15:38,716 --> 01:15:40,796
Speaker 1: is as a fan all the time, listening to music

1255
01:15:40,836 --> 01:15:44,356
Speaker 1: all the time, and I listen and then based on

1256
01:15:44,396 --> 01:15:50,196
Speaker 1: what I'm hearing, I'll make suggestions just based on whatever

1257
01:15:51,156 --> 01:15:53,956
Speaker 1: whatever little bit that I've picked up from listening to

1258
01:15:54,036 --> 01:15:57,156
Speaker 1: music my whole life. We should probably be asking to

1259
01:15:57,316 --> 01:15:59,276
Speaker 1: LL this. But since you were there to help make

1260
01:15:59,396 --> 01:16:05,716
Speaker 1: the track, what exactly went between LL and Cool mood

1261
01:16:06,556 --> 01:16:11,596
Speaker 1: that made him make Jack the Ripper? I remember, Yeah,

1262
01:16:11,636 --> 01:16:14,316
Speaker 1: I don't know that anything happened. I think it might

1263
01:16:14,356 --> 01:16:17,356
Speaker 1: have just been that. I mean, did you realize that

1264
01:16:17,396 --> 01:16:21,556
Speaker 1: you were making a Cool Moody disk record? Nope, and

1265
01:16:21,836 --> 01:16:24,836
Speaker 1: one of the first disk records. I never thought about

1266
01:16:24,836 --> 01:16:28,036
Speaker 1: it because that was your boyfriend in the day. Yeah,

1267
01:16:28,076 --> 01:16:32,476
Speaker 1: I loved him. You you also thought about it that

1268
01:16:32,516 --> 01:16:35,076
Speaker 1: way at all. And it kind of goes back to

1269
01:16:35,116 --> 01:16:37,036
Speaker 1: your go Go love too, because it was the Chuck

1270
01:16:37,076 --> 01:16:41,196
Speaker 1: Brown temple that it's also the temple Yeah yeah, oh yeah,

1271
01:16:41,196 --> 01:16:45,996
Speaker 1: I forgot. I forgot that. Athley's road clip is Yeah,

1272
01:16:46,196 --> 01:16:51,996
Speaker 1: it's not just the paintingful break Yeah, how how what

1273
01:16:52,156 --> 01:17:00,436
Speaker 1: was your experience like shooting Tougher Than Leather? Terrible experience directed? Okay,

1274
01:17:00,476 --> 01:17:06,516
Speaker 1: I'm a first time director. What what what can you what? What?

1275
01:17:06,516 --> 01:17:08,676
Speaker 1: What advice can you give me? I mean, sorry, my

1276
01:17:08,796 --> 01:17:11,196
Speaker 1: movie he's already done, so okay. I was going to say,

1277
01:17:11,236 --> 01:17:15,316
Speaker 1: if you have an opportunity not to do it, don't leave. Okay,

1278
01:17:15,316 --> 01:17:21,156
Speaker 1: So tell me about your experience in directing Tougher Than Leather. Well,

1279
01:17:21,196 --> 01:17:22,836
Speaker 1: where I didn't know what I was doing. In the

1280
01:17:22,916 --> 01:17:26,076
Speaker 1: recording studio, it was easy because there were so few

1281
01:17:26,116 --> 01:17:30,676
Speaker 1: people there and mistakes were low. And on a movie

1282
01:17:30,716 --> 01:17:37,676
Speaker 1: set there are many more people and the schedule is like, hey,

1283
01:17:37,676 --> 01:17:39,636
Speaker 1: I'm going to be an hour late to the studio today.

1284
01:17:39,716 --> 01:17:42,396
Speaker 1: Talk to you, talk to you guys later. No problem,

1285
01:17:43,116 --> 01:17:48,116
Speaker 1: movie sets not like that. It's like everything was and yeah,

1286
01:17:48,156 --> 01:17:51,916
Speaker 1: and we were our whole lives were you know. I

1287
01:17:51,956 --> 01:17:54,516
Speaker 1: slept until I never took a class before three in

1288
01:17:54,556 --> 01:17:56,676
Speaker 1: the afternoon when I went to NYU, because I slept

1289
01:17:56,756 --> 01:18:00,676
Speaker 1: until probably one, and then we went out all night

1290
01:18:00,756 --> 01:18:03,636
Speaker 1: every night. So the idea of showing up on a

1291
01:18:03,716 --> 01:18:06,396
Speaker 1: movie set at six o'clock in the morning every day,

1292
01:18:07,196 --> 01:18:10,636
Speaker 1: that wasn't anything that I anticipated, and that was not

1293
01:18:10,836 --> 01:18:17,476
Speaker 1: a it was not a realistic ask in the way

1294
01:18:17,476 --> 01:18:20,196
Speaker 1: my life worked. So it was a terrible experience and

1295
01:18:21,036 --> 01:18:23,516
Speaker 1: I wouldn't wish it, wouldn't wish it on my enemy.

1296
01:18:23,836 --> 01:18:27,076
Speaker 1: Did you insist on directing that movie or was it

1297
01:18:27,116 --> 01:18:30,636
Speaker 1: like you had an upcoming april or to do it

1298
01:18:30,716 --> 01:18:34,996
Speaker 1: or something like? How did you wind up holding the

1299
01:18:34,996 --> 01:18:39,796
Speaker 1: director's manual? Me and my friend Rick wrote the idea.

1300
01:18:39,836 --> 01:18:42,316
Speaker 1: It was Rick was really more the writer than I.

1301
01:18:42,636 --> 01:18:44,796
Speaker 1: We would throw ideas together, but Rick was the main writer.

1302
01:18:44,916 --> 01:18:47,916
Speaker 1: Rick Minello and who was the guy who ran the

1303
01:18:47,996 --> 01:18:51,556
Speaker 1: desk at my dorm, so he'd be the night He

1304
01:18:51,596 --> 01:18:54,996
Speaker 1: would work at the dorm from midnight to six. He

1305
01:18:55,116 --> 01:18:58,276
Speaker 1: was the night watchman essentially, and the dorm was pretty

1306
01:18:58,356 --> 01:19:00,716
Speaker 1: quiet from midnight to six, so I would usually get

1307
01:19:00,716 --> 01:19:03,156
Speaker 1: home from the club two three and I would sit

1308
01:19:03,196 --> 01:19:05,396
Speaker 1: there with Rick and we would order food from cozy

1309
01:19:05,436 --> 01:19:09,596
Speaker 1: Superenberger around the corner and watch old movies on TV.

1310
01:19:10,356 --> 01:19:13,396
Speaker 1: And he was a film major and film historian new

1311
01:19:13,436 --> 01:19:16,996
Speaker 1: tremendous amount and then in later years ended up, you know,

1312
01:19:17,076 --> 01:19:23,916
Speaker 1: working with Darren Aronovski and James Gray. James Gray some

1313
01:19:24,036 --> 01:19:26,676
Speaker 1: great directors, and all of my friends who were directors

1314
01:19:26,676 --> 01:19:30,356
Speaker 1: would always anytime anyone I knew who made movies had

1315
01:19:30,436 --> 01:19:33,796
Speaker 1: a movie question, they would all call Rick Manello because

1316
01:19:33,796 --> 01:19:37,716
Speaker 1: he knew more than everybody that Rick Mannello was the

1317
01:19:37,796 --> 01:19:40,596
Speaker 1: main scriptwriter. He's in it too. I can't remember what

1318
01:19:40,676 --> 01:19:44,356
Speaker 1: his character. He was played, sort of the sidekick guy

1319
01:19:44,396 --> 01:19:48,876
Speaker 1: to my guy. I can't remember his character's name. I

1320
01:19:48,916 --> 01:19:52,476
Speaker 1: can't remember. I really blocked out a lot about that movie. Actually,

1321
01:19:53,596 --> 01:19:58,316
Speaker 1: he was also in the Beastie Boys video for No

1322
01:19:58,436 --> 01:20:01,596
Speaker 1: Sleep Till Brooklyn. He was like the club, you know

1323
01:20:01,636 --> 01:20:04,796
Speaker 1: in the beginning, there's like a skit with a that's

1324
01:20:04,876 --> 01:20:08,636
Speaker 1: Rick Mannello. So he's been in a few depths him

1325
01:20:10,236 --> 01:20:13,236
Speaker 1: products or Yes. And he directed Going Back to Kelly

1326
01:20:13,676 --> 01:20:17,436
Speaker 1: as well. Oh the video of Going Back to Kelly,

1327
01:20:18,076 --> 01:20:21,636
Speaker 1: which we story boarded together at the desk at Weinstein

1328
01:20:21,676 --> 01:20:27,476
Speaker 1: the dormitory at NYU. Okay, So something I don't know.

1329
01:20:27,756 --> 01:20:30,676
Speaker 1: I don't know if you ever went on record. I

1330
01:20:30,876 --> 01:20:34,796
Speaker 1: never knew how or why you left Deaf Jam. I

1331
01:20:34,956 --> 01:20:39,036
Speaker 1: just remember your name being on the executive producer for

1332
01:20:39,156 --> 01:20:42,676
Speaker 1: Nation of Millions, and then when I looked for your

1333
01:20:42,756 --> 01:20:45,596
Speaker 1: name on Fear of a black planet. You weren't there anymore.

1334
01:20:46,236 --> 01:20:48,316
Speaker 1: And then I next I heard of you. You had

1335
01:20:48,356 --> 01:20:55,276
Speaker 1: a funeral for the word death. So what I mean,

1336
01:20:55,396 --> 01:20:58,916
Speaker 1: why did you decide to leave the your your your

1337
01:20:58,916 --> 01:21:02,276
Speaker 1: first love? It really had to There were two things

1338
01:21:02,316 --> 01:21:07,356
Speaker 1: going on. One was over the time together. However many years,

1339
01:21:07,356 --> 01:21:10,156
Speaker 1: it was three, four or five years, my relationship with

1340
01:21:10,236 --> 01:21:14,316
Speaker 1: Russell was starting to I wouldn't say it ever turned bad,

1341
01:21:14,356 --> 01:21:16,716
Speaker 1: because we were always good friends, but it felt like

1342
01:21:16,796 --> 01:21:23,036
Speaker 1: our what we wanted was changing. And I felt like

1343
01:21:23,116 --> 01:21:26,276
Speaker 1: I really loved our friendship and didn't want our friendship

1344
01:21:26,316 --> 01:21:29,676
Speaker 1: to end. And I thought, if we remained partners, our

1345
01:21:29,716 --> 01:21:33,356
Speaker 1: friendships probably going to end. So maybe it's better just

1346
01:21:33,476 --> 01:21:35,916
Speaker 1: not to be partners anymore. And then there was something

1347
01:21:35,996 --> 01:21:38,956
Speaker 1: going on that really triggered. It had to do with

1348
01:21:39,316 --> 01:21:43,116
Speaker 1: the way we were being treated by Columbia and what

1349
01:21:43,156 --> 01:21:45,876
Speaker 1: we needed Columbia to do to fix the situation for

1350
01:21:45,916 --> 01:21:49,756
Speaker 1: our artists. For example, I remember the first time we

1351
01:21:49,756 --> 01:21:55,516
Speaker 1: went to England and the guy at Columbia basically told us,

1352
01:21:55,996 --> 01:21:58,436
Speaker 1: you know, we're just we're not interested in your records

1353
01:21:58,556 --> 01:22:02,796
Speaker 1: that they said. They said, we look at Columbia records

1354
01:22:02,796 --> 01:22:05,956
Speaker 1: in New York as an albatross. And it's nothing against

1355
01:22:05,996 --> 01:22:08,356
Speaker 1: you personally, but because you come from them, we're just

1356
01:22:08,436 --> 01:22:14,636
Speaker 1: not really interested even though you're making that money. Yeah,

1357
01:22:14,756 --> 01:22:18,196
Speaker 1: I'm in eighty seven. You guys are so more units

1358
01:22:18,196 --> 01:22:23,396
Speaker 1: than Michael Jackson's bed. Yeah, And it was unbelievable. I

1359
01:22:24,156 --> 01:22:25,836
Speaker 1: had a meeting with al Teller at the time, who

1360
01:22:25,876 --> 01:22:28,796
Speaker 1: was the president of the company, and told him all

1361
01:22:28,796 --> 01:22:31,356
Speaker 1: of my concerns and I talked for a half hour

1362
01:22:31,356 --> 01:22:33,956
Speaker 1: and I got really emotional. I started crying because again

1363
01:22:34,196 --> 01:22:37,076
Speaker 1: I care so much about this shit, It's my whole life.

1364
01:22:37,436 --> 01:22:40,836
Speaker 1: And at the end of the conversation, I say, you know,

1365
01:22:40,876 --> 01:22:42,516
Speaker 1: we gotta we have to figure out a way to

1366
01:22:42,556 --> 01:22:46,516
Speaker 1: fix this, because if not, I have to leave. Like

1367
01:22:46,596 --> 01:22:49,116
Speaker 1: I can't. I can't keep doing this. I can't put

1368
01:22:49,116 --> 01:22:52,476
Speaker 1: my heart into this and have partners who don't care

1369
01:22:52,756 --> 01:22:55,716
Speaker 1: or who are not going as hard as they can

1370
01:22:56,116 --> 01:22:59,076
Speaker 1: as hard as we're going. I can't do this. And um,

1371
01:22:59,276 --> 01:23:01,476
Speaker 1: and this is after a half hour of my I

1372
01:23:01,596 --> 01:23:03,916
Speaker 1: remember I had a pad and I listed all the

1373
01:23:03,956 --> 01:23:08,476
Speaker 1: things that were wrong in the relationship. Whatever if I

1374
01:23:08,476 --> 01:23:11,396
Speaker 1: would have known that they put the wrong a side

1375
01:23:11,516 --> 01:23:14,476
Speaker 1: on the record, that that's an example they've been on

1376
01:23:14,516 --> 01:23:17,236
Speaker 1: the list. Yeah, it's like but that was indicative of

1377
01:23:17,236 --> 01:23:19,556
Speaker 1: what it was like. It was like nobody really cared.

1378
01:23:19,596 --> 01:23:22,636
Speaker 1: These guys do this shit that we don't understand and

1379
01:23:23,196 --> 01:23:25,476
Speaker 1: luckily itselves, but we don't know what it is and

1380
01:23:25,596 --> 01:23:27,436
Speaker 1: we don't really care what it is. We just don't

1381
01:23:27,436 --> 01:23:32,476
Speaker 1: want it to stop. Um. But they always one with

1382
01:23:32,716 --> 01:23:38,476
Speaker 1: yet nikof or one on one with Ideas or Matola,

1383
01:23:38,716 --> 01:23:42,676
Speaker 1: none of those guys. Einer wasn't there, Matola wasn't there yet.

1384
01:23:42,876 --> 01:23:45,676
Speaker 1: It was so the guy al Teller was the president

1385
01:23:45,716 --> 01:23:49,156
Speaker 1: of the company. Matola was his boss, but he wasn't

1386
01:23:49,196 --> 01:23:51,636
Speaker 1: really involved in what the day to day of Columbia record.

1387
01:23:51,716 --> 01:23:53,396
Speaker 1: So I had this meeting with the guy the right

1388
01:23:53,436 --> 01:23:55,956
Speaker 1: person to have a meeting with. I have this meeting.

1389
01:23:56,036 --> 01:24:00,996
Speaker 1: I'm have a heartfelt emotional He's sitting there holding a

1390
01:24:01,036 --> 01:24:06,116
Speaker 1: baseball bat through the meeting because yeah, he saw himself

1391
01:24:06,156 --> 01:24:08,436
Speaker 1: as kind of like tough. So he's sitting there holding

1392
01:24:08,436 --> 01:24:11,156
Speaker 1: this baseball bat. I'm talking twenty minutes, twenty five minutes.

1393
01:24:11,476 --> 01:24:15,036
Speaker 1: I'm crying at the end and telling them finally that

1394
01:24:15,116 --> 01:24:16,876
Speaker 1: if we can't work this stuff out, we can't get

1395
01:24:16,916 --> 01:24:18,236
Speaker 1: to the bottom of this. I got to leave, and

1396
01:24:18,316 --> 01:24:20,676
Speaker 1: I said, you know, I never signed a contract. Russell

1397
01:24:20,716 --> 01:24:23,076
Speaker 1: signed the contract. I never signed anything, so and I

1398
01:24:23,116 --> 01:24:26,076
Speaker 1: have to leave. And he said, wait, wait a minute,

1399
01:24:26,076 --> 01:24:29,036
Speaker 1: wait a minute, what did you just say. And I said,

1400
01:24:29,756 --> 01:24:32,996
Speaker 1: I said, yeah, I said I never signed a contract,

1401
01:24:33,956 --> 01:24:36,636
Speaker 1: you know, only Russell signed. And he said, okay, wait

1402
01:24:36,636 --> 01:24:38,556
Speaker 1: a minute. You're gonna have to start back at the

1403
01:24:38,596 --> 01:24:42,876
Speaker 1: beginning because I wasn't listening to anything. You were saying, oh,

1404
01:24:43,076 --> 01:24:47,036
Speaker 1: we're at my sound effect with me. This is this

1405
01:24:47,116 --> 01:24:52,796
Speaker 1: is really, this is real. So how long until death

1406
01:24:52,836 --> 01:24:56,996
Speaker 1: American is started right away? Because when I left def Jam,

1407
01:24:57,036 --> 01:25:01,116
Speaker 1: I had already started, like Slayer was signed to death

1408
01:25:01,196 --> 01:25:07,436
Speaker 1: Jam originally, Danzig was signed to deaf Jam originally, and Dice.

1409
01:25:07,716 --> 01:25:10,196
Speaker 1: I can't remember if Dice was if I had already

1410
01:25:10,196 --> 01:25:13,436
Speaker 1: signed Ice or not. When I remember going out to

1411
01:25:13,516 --> 01:25:15,356
Speaker 1: lunch with Russell and saying, you know, this isn't going

1412
01:25:15,396 --> 01:25:17,716
Speaker 1: to work. I don't the relationship with Columbia is bad.

1413
01:25:18,436 --> 01:25:22,516
Speaker 1: And oh, so what that meeting that I told you about,

1414
01:25:22,556 --> 01:25:27,036
Speaker 1: the start at the beginning again meeting? When that meeting,

1415
01:25:27,956 --> 01:25:31,556
Speaker 1: after that meeting, I told Russell, you know this is

1416
01:25:31,596 --> 01:25:34,756
Speaker 1: not good. We can't do this anymore. And the way

1417
01:25:34,796 --> 01:25:37,876
Speaker 1: that Columbia ended up fixing it was to write a

1418
01:25:37,876 --> 01:25:40,796
Speaker 1: big check to death Jam without dealing with any of

1419
01:25:40,796 --> 01:25:45,516
Speaker 1: the problems. It was just a check and Russell was

1420
01:25:45,556 --> 01:25:47,156
Speaker 1: cool with that, and I was not cool with that.

1421
01:25:47,396 --> 01:25:49,996
Speaker 1: So that was sort of the you know what, I

1422
01:25:49,996 --> 01:25:51,956
Speaker 1: don't think we can do this anymore, Like this doesn't

1423
01:25:51,956 --> 01:25:54,116
Speaker 1: feel right. And I said to him, I said, do

1424
01:25:54,156 --> 01:25:56,476
Speaker 1: you want to leave the company? And he said I

1425
01:25:56,516 --> 01:25:58,236
Speaker 1: don't want to leave. And I said, okay, I guess

1426
01:25:58,236 --> 01:26:00,756
Speaker 1: I have to leave. And it was just like that.

1427
01:26:01,396 --> 01:26:07,476
Speaker 1: It wasn't even I thought, yeah, yikes, because you left

1428
01:26:07,516 --> 01:26:14,156
Speaker 1: before well you left the beasties left, correct let Yeah, yeah,

1429
01:26:14,156 --> 01:26:17,596
Speaker 1: how did um did you and um like uh at

1430
01:26:17,716 --> 01:26:20,676
Speaker 1: Rock or any of them? Did y'all have conversations about

1431
01:26:20,716 --> 01:26:25,716
Speaker 1: why you both left? Or interestingly interestingly, we have never

1432
01:26:25,756 --> 01:26:29,356
Speaker 1: really discussed it. And it's definitely an elephant in the

1433
01:26:29,436 --> 01:26:31,716
Speaker 1: room that would be good to discuss, and we just

1434
01:26:31,756 --> 01:26:34,756
Speaker 1: never did. But I'm sure it'll happen. It may happen

1435
01:26:35,076 --> 01:26:38,916
Speaker 1: next week, like it'll happen. What were your thoughts on

1436
01:26:38,956 --> 01:26:42,276
Speaker 1: Paul's boutique? Loved it, thought it was the I remember

1437
01:26:42,316 --> 01:26:45,036
Speaker 1: listening to it at the Mandrean Hotel, me and Chuck

1438
01:26:45,116 --> 01:26:47,836
Speaker 1: d together. We were We were there because I think

1439
01:26:47,876 --> 01:26:50,556
Speaker 1: Public Enemy was gonna appear somewhere in California. I don't

1440
01:26:50,556 --> 01:26:53,076
Speaker 1: know whether it was a club date or a TV show,

1441
01:26:53,796 --> 01:26:56,956
Speaker 1: but we're at the Mandrean. We got an advance. I

1442
01:26:56,956 --> 01:26:58,476
Speaker 1: don't even know if it was an advance. It might

1443
01:26:58,516 --> 01:27:00,436
Speaker 1: have just been like from the studio, like they had

1444
01:27:00,476 --> 01:27:03,356
Speaker 1: just finished it and me and Chuck listened to it

1445
01:27:03,396 --> 01:27:05,636
Speaker 1: and we both thought, oh my god, this is the

1446
01:27:05,676 --> 01:27:07,676
Speaker 1: greatest thing we've ever heard. This is the future hip

1447
01:27:07,716 --> 01:27:10,516
Speaker 1: hop like this is. It doesn't get better than this,

1448
01:27:10,836 --> 01:27:14,476
Speaker 1: and we were shocked that it was not as well

1449
01:27:14,476 --> 01:27:17,596
Speaker 1: received as we thought it deserved to be. The thing

1450
01:27:17,636 --> 01:27:20,116
Speaker 1: that I remembered the most, at least your first year

1451
01:27:20,276 --> 01:27:23,796
Speaker 1: of Death American was all the press that you got

1452
01:27:23,836 --> 01:27:27,556
Speaker 1: as far as the Ghetto boys were concerned. How did

1453
01:27:27,556 --> 01:27:32,636
Speaker 1: they come, how did they come across your radar? And

1454
01:27:33,436 --> 01:27:36,876
Speaker 1: what was it about them that drew you to them?

1455
01:27:36,956 --> 01:27:43,836
Speaker 1: And all the ensuing controversy that came with them, Like, yeah,

1456
01:27:43,876 --> 01:27:48,996
Speaker 1: I had never heard like NWA was already happening. Well,

1457
01:27:49,036 --> 01:27:51,316
Speaker 1: maybe just the Easy E album. I don't know if

1458
01:27:51,316 --> 01:27:53,316
Speaker 1: there was an NWA album. Yet there was an Easy

1459
01:27:53,316 --> 01:27:57,156
Speaker 1: E album for sure, and I loved easy And then

1460
01:27:57,196 --> 01:28:01,716
Speaker 1: I heard the Ghetto Boys and I felt like, oh,

1461
01:28:01,716 --> 01:28:08,396
Speaker 1: like where NWA was gangster, this is like hard in

1462
01:28:08,436 --> 01:28:14,236
Speaker 1: that way, but more like more unhinged, more like um

1463
01:28:14,396 --> 01:28:19,356
Speaker 1: horror m like like violent but not violent like a

1464
01:28:19,436 --> 01:28:23,876
Speaker 1: bad drug deal gone wrong, like violent like a horror movie,

1465
01:28:24,036 --> 01:28:28,836
Speaker 1: you know, like dismemberment, crazy and um. And I just

1466
01:28:28,996 --> 01:28:32,636
Speaker 1: liked the how extreme it was. It spoke to me

1467
01:28:32,756 --> 01:28:35,996
Speaker 1: right away, and I thought that the album UM didn't

1468
01:28:36,076 --> 01:28:39,116
Speaker 1: sound it didn't sound as good as it could have.

1469
01:28:39,636 --> 01:28:42,476
Speaker 1: So I remixed the album. I didn't add anything to

1470
01:28:42,556 --> 01:28:46,036
Speaker 1: it or I just basically remixed the album and change

1471
01:28:46,076 --> 01:28:48,956
Speaker 1: the cover and change the name because they were called

1472
01:28:48,956 --> 01:28:53,436
Speaker 1: the Ghetto Boys g H yeah, and I thought, you know,

1473
01:28:53,676 --> 01:28:57,796
Speaker 1: it sounds too ordinary, like they could be the Ghetto Boys,

1474
01:28:57,796 --> 01:29:01,156
Speaker 1: but should be the Geto Boys just because it I

1475
01:29:01,156 --> 01:29:04,156
Speaker 1: don't know, I just thought it was more interesting. I

1476
01:29:04,196 --> 01:29:07,156
Speaker 1: would look better on T shirts as well. Okay, so

1477
01:29:07,276 --> 01:29:13,836
Speaker 1: how how much of I mean now? It's like, especially

1478
01:29:13,916 --> 01:29:17,956
Speaker 1: in the environment that we're in right now, as far

1479
01:29:17,996 --> 01:29:25,756
Speaker 1: as like uh, right wing Republican Christian news talking points

1480
01:29:25,756 --> 01:29:27,756
Speaker 1: in those things like you know now it's sort of

1481
01:29:27,796 --> 01:29:31,436
Speaker 1: like you collectively roll your eyes or that you know,

1482
01:29:31,596 --> 01:29:36,476
Speaker 1: like that side of the fences lying. But back in

1483
01:29:36,796 --> 01:29:41,556
Speaker 1: nineteen eighty nine, ninety like they it just seemed like

1484
01:29:41,676 --> 01:29:45,636
Speaker 1: royal threats. And I remember I knew the Ghetto Boys

1485
01:29:45,636 --> 01:29:49,796
Speaker 1: because one Chuck Chuck D's shadowed them out, or fear

1486
01:29:49,796 --> 01:29:54,796
Speaker 1: of a Black Panic Planet album. But all the controversy

1487
01:29:55,076 --> 01:30:02,556
Speaker 1: of scarfaces lyrics being talking points for everybody running for Senate,

1488
01:30:02,556 --> 01:30:07,156
Speaker 1: any Republican running for Senate or the House using this

1489
01:30:07,316 --> 01:30:10,316
Speaker 1: thing like to this was this manner from heaven like

1490
01:30:10,436 --> 01:30:13,476
Speaker 1: for you is I had min diversity and bad news,

1491
01:30:13,596 --> 01:30:16,396
Speaker 1: like yes, this is what I want to be your

1492
01:30:16,396 --> 01:30:18,836
Speaker 1: parents worst nightmare. This is the first time I'm ever

1493
01:30:18,876 --> 01:30:23,996
Speaker 1: hearing of that being the case. What you read Ted White?

1494
01:30:24,356 --> 01:30:27,476
Speaker 1: Ted White, I think who ran billboard? Oh man, he

1495
01:30:27,636 --> 01:30:31,956
Speaker 1: wrote like paragraphs and dissertation of Mind of a Luna.

1496
01:30:32,236 --> 01:30:34,716
Speaker 1: I would have never ever like the sure fireway to

1497
01:30:34,836 --> 01:30:38,676
Speaker 1: get a seventeen eighteen year old to buy the ship.

1498
01:30:38,796 --> 01:30:42,196
Speaker 1: It's because Ted White could not a billboard, could not

1499
01:30:42,356 --> 01:30:47,396
Speaker 1: stop writing about how violent Scarface's Mind of a Lunatic

1500
01:30:47,596 --> 01:30:50,876
Speaker 1: was and this needs to be banned and shit. I

1501
01:30:50,916 --> 01:30:54,476
Speaker 1: was like, word, I'm about this shit. Yeah, Clay parents

1502
01:30:54,516 --> 01:30:57,556
Speaker 1: hated it must be good. Yeah. I always like crazy shit,

1503
01:30:57,716 --> 01:31:03,196
Speaker 1: you know, I like edgy crazy shit. It's it's interesting

1504
01:31:03,196 --> 01:31:06,596
Speaker 1: to me. It's fun. I mean, but you do realize,

1505
01:31:06,676 --> 01:31:12,956
Speaker 1: like being parents were nightmare is also like that's great marketing.

1506
01:31:13,236 --> 01:31:17,716
Speaker 1: That's a regged exact candy. Like that's that's so that

1507
01:31:17,876 --> 01:31:21,036
Speaker 1: never excited you at all. No, I never never thought

1508
01:31:21,076 --> 01:31:24,796
Speaker 1: about it because usually I would have to get the

1509
01:31:24,836 --> 01:31:26,996
Speaker 1: calls more like the record company not wanting to put

1510
01:31:26,996 --> 01:31:28,556
Speaker 1: it out, you know. That's what I had to deal with,

1511
01:31:28,636 --> 01:31:32,596
Speaker 1: Like Slayer, Columbia Records refused to put out that Slayer record,

1512
01:31:32,636 --> 01:31:34,556
Speaker 1: So then I had to find a new way to

1513
01:31:34,596 --> 01:31:37,036
Speaker 1: release it, even though the first one was on def Jam,

1514
01:31:37,076 --> 01:31:39,956
Speaker 1: but it wasn't through Columbia because they refused to release it.

1515
01:31:40,636 --> 01:31:43,436
Speaker 1: Then I made a deal with Geffen Records, which is

1516
01:31:43,436 --> 01:31:46,396
Speaker 1: where that went. And then in my deal with Geffen,

1517
01:31:46,516 --> 01:31:49,156
Speaker 1: I had to have complete creative control where they could

1518
01:31:49,196 --> 01:31:51,276
Speaker 1: never come to me and say they're not going to

1519
01:31:51,356 --> 01:31:54,836
Speaker 1: put something out. And then when it came to Andrew Dice,

1520
01:31:54,916 --> 01:31:57,036
Speaker 1: Clay or the Ghetto Boys, they're like, well, we're not

1521
01:31:57,076 --> 01:31:59,076
Speaker 1: going to put it out. It's like, well, the whole

1522
01:31:59,076 --> 01:32:01,676
Speaker 1: reason I'm at your company is because I need a

1523
01:32:01,676 --> 01:32:04,116
Speaker 1: safe place to put out crazy shit. So why I'm here.

1524
01:32:04,556 --> 01:32:08,436
Speaker 1: This is what I do. And you'll see when you

1525
01:32:08,436 --> 01:32:12,116
Speaker 1: look back on it in time, it'll be the right decision.

1526
01:32:12,356 --> 01:32:16,156
Speaker 1: It'll be like you're too you're too close to the

1527
01:32:16,236 --> 01:32:20,276
Speaker 1: story now. But if you look back in history, important

1528
01:32:20,276 --> 01:32:24,476
Speaker 1: things often stick out like soft thumbs in their day

1529
01:32:24,636 --> 01:32:30,476
Speaker 1: and are hated or vilified. Or they burned Beatles albums.

1530
01:32:30,556 --> 01:32:34,196
Speaker 1: You know, yeah, man, Elvis was the you know, the devil.

1531
01:32:34,996 --> 01:32:38,356
Speaker 1: What was it about the Black Crows that excited you

1532
01:32:38,516 --> 01:32:40,676
Speaker 1: to sign them to the label? Did you sign all

1533
01:32:40,716 --> 01:32:42,676
Speaker 1: the acts that were at least on the first run

1534
01:32:42,756 --> 01:32:45,516
Speaker 1: of Death American to the label? Or was it like

1535
01:32:45,596 --> 01:32:48,436
Speaker 1: did you have a full staff? And you know I didn't.

1536
01:32:48,516 --> 01:32:50,276
Speaker 1: I didn't have a full staff. But there was my

1537
01:32:50,356 --> 01:32:52,636
Speaker 1: friend who I went to school with named George Treculius.

1538
01:32:52,916 --> 01:32:57,076
Speaker 1: Who Culius, who's been called out on a Beast record

1539
01:32:57,076 --> 01:33:00,116
Speaker 1: maybe well he's also been my boss the few movies

1540
01:33:00,156 --> 01:33:04,156
Speaker 1: that I scored. George. If you're clearing music in movies,

1541
01:33:04,556 --> 01:33:08,196
Speaker 1: George Culiac, is that that's your guy that you work with? Okay, great,

1542
01:33:08,396 --> 01:33:14,076
Speaker 1: So George was, Um, he was an inter. It's funny.

1543
01:33:14,316 --> 01:33:17,316
Speaker 1: I was an intern at Death Jam when I owned

1544
01:33:17,356 --> 01:33:20,516
Speaker 1: Deaf Jam at NYU. And the reason I was an

1545
01:33:20,556 --> 01:33:23,396
Speaker 1: intern was because then I got school credit for working

1546
01:33:23,396 --> 01:33:29,836
Speaker 1: at Deaf Jam. George was. George was my intern at

1547
01:33:29,916 --> 01:33:33,836
Speaker 1: Deaf Jam where he got credit in the dorm, and

1548
01:33:33,836 --> 01:33:35,676
Speaker 1: then there was a time when he was my roommate

1549
01:33:35,756 --> 01:33:40,596
Speaker 1: in the dorm, if I remember correctly. Um and George,

1550
01:33:41,236 --> 01:33:44,876
Speaker 1: he found the Black Crows and that was his both

1551
01:33:44,916 --> 01:33:47,716
Speaker 1: his signing and his production. That was his vision, and

1552
01:33:47,796 --> 01:33:50,996
Speaker 1: the Jayhawks as well. He signed the Jayhawks and never

1553
01:33:51,116 --> 01:33:55,676
Speaker 1: told me that. Wow, I didn't know. Ye Hey, wait

1554
01:33:55,956 --> 01:33:58,716
Speaker 1: all these old Deaf Jam questions are coming back to

1555
01:33:58,756 --> 01:34:06,556
Speaker 1: me now. Um. The storyline to Crust Groove, Um, how

1556
01:34:06,636 --> 01:34:10,556
Speaker 1: much of that was actual life? I'm trying to get

1557
01:34:10,596 --> 01:34:15,996
Speaker 1: to be kind of uncut. Gim's robbing Peter to pay Paul,

1558
01:34:16,476 --> 01:34:20,476
Speaker 1: narrative of like did you guys ever have Like that's

1559
01:34:20,556 --> 01:34:24,116
Speaker 1: the storyline of having to borrow money to press up

1560
01:34:24,476 --> 01:34:27,876
Speaker 1: twelve inches or to keep up with demand. That's Hollywood,

1561
01:34:28,076 --> 01:34:33,116
Speaker 1: Hollywood fickery. That's none of that, Okay, just checking, just

1562
01:34:33,196 --> 01:34:38,876
Speaker 1: check it. Yeah, um, so outside of Deaf American recordings,

1563
01:34:39,196 --> 01:34:42,636
Speaker 1: can you talk about your your your work with with

1564
01:34:42,716 --> 01:34:47,596
Speaker 1: Johnny Cash and how you got him back to his

1565
01:34:47,676 --> 01:34:51,076
Speaker 1: glory point, because I mean, I would imagine before you

1566
01:34:51,116 --> 01:34:56,276
Speaker 1: two worked together he was sort of waning in the

1567
01:34:56,316 --> 01:34:59,396
Speaker 1: creative department at least, like with the last four records

1568
01:34:59,396 --> 01:35:02,036
Speaker 1: that he worked on with you, that was like probably

1569
01:35:02,076 --> 01:35:06,516
Speaker 1: one of the best storied comebacks in a music career.

1570
01:35:06,556 --> 01:35:13,836
Speaker 1: What was it like working with him? Coolest thing, coolest

1571
01:35:13,876 --> 01:35:19,996
Speaker 1: thing that ever happened in my life. He was a beautiful, brilliant, humble, interesting,

1572
01:35:20,396 --> 01:35:26,156
Speaker 1: quiet guy who studied history off. He had a tremendous

1573
01:35:26,156 --> 01:35:30,836
Speaker 1: amount of wisdom that he didn't offer unless you drew

1574
01:35:30,916 --> 01:35:34,276
Speaker 1: him out, because he was pretty reserved. But if you

1575
01:35:34,956 --> 01:35:36,916
Speaker 1: if you asked him about stuff, he would tell you

1576
01:35:36,916 --> 01:35:38,516
Speaker 1: about it. And he knew a lot about a lot

1577
01:35:38,556 --> 01:35:41,716
Speaker 1: of things, and a tremendous amount about music and the

1578
01:35:42,076 --> 01:35:46,516
Speaker 1: history of country music and folk music. And I learned

1579
01:35:46,516 --> 01:35:49,596
Speaker 1: a tremendous amount being around him. Did you get a

1580
01:35:49,716 --> 01:35:52,316
Speaker 1: chance to personally know him? Like what was he telling

1581
01:35:52,316 --> 01:35:57,116
Speaker 1: you stories of recording for Son and that whole million

1582
01:35:57,156 --> 01:35:59,716
Speaker 1: dollars session thing and everything you ever wanted to know,

1583
01:35:59,796 --> 01:36:04,756
Speaker 1: and he would I got to know him personally well.

1584
01:36:04,796 --> 01:36:06,236
Speaker 1: He would stay at my house when he came to

1585
01:36:06,356 --> 01:36:07,796
Speaker 1: LA I would say at his house if I went

1586
01:36:07,836 --> 01:36:12,276
Speaker 1: to Nashville. Um, I don't know how much we talked

1587
01:36:12,276 --> 01:36:15,196
Speaker 1: about old times unless there was a specific reason to

1588
01:36:15,236 --> 01:36:18,396
Speaker 1: her if I had a particular interest. He would tell

1589
01:36:18,476 --> 01:36:23,556
Speaker 1: me stories about about Sam Phillips, though okay, he loved

1590
01:36:23,596 --> 01:36:26,996
Speaker 1: Sam Phillips. Which artist opens up to you the most

1591
01:36:27,076 --> 01:36:30,556
Speaker 1: as far as uh, I don't know if you have

1592
01:36:30,756 --> 01:36:35,516
Speaker 1: the same relationship would say a Jay Z that you

1593
01:36:35,636 --> 01:36:39,756
Speaker 1: would with Anthony Keatis. So I know there's different degrees

1594
01:36:39,796 --> 01:36:43,076
Speaker 1: of getting to know your clients as you're producing them.

1595
01:36:43,156 --> 01:36:45,956
Speaker 1: And I know there's an an artist producer trust that

1596
01:36:46,036 --> 01:36:48,476
Speaker 1: has to be established, but I know there's different degrees

1597
01:36:48,476 --> 01:36:53,036
Speaker 1: of that of like which artists I mean, And this

1598
01:36:53,116 --> 01:36:55,196
Speaker 1: is not asking what's your favorite artists you ever worked with,

1599
01:36:55,396 --> 01:37:01,516
Speaker 1: but who's who's the closest, Who do you know the

1600
01:37:01,556 --> 01:37:04,796
Speaker 1: best that you feel that you're just actual friends with,

1601
01:37:04,956 --> 01:37:08,756
Speaker 1: like really friends? Is that the Mars Bold guys is it?

1602
01:37:09,116 --> 01:37:11,596
Speaker 1: And I feel like I'm friends with a lot a

1603
01:37:11,676 --> 01:37:14,396
Speaker 1: lot of them. I'm just thinking if there are any

1604
01:37:14,516 --> 01:37:18,516
Speaker 1: unique standouts I would say the people who I've made

1605
01:37:18,676 --> 01:37:23,636
Speaker 1: the most albums with. That plays a role, just because

1606
01:37:23,636 --> 01:37:29,516
Speaker 1: you're around them more. You know, it's just more hours together. Yeah. So, like,

1607
01:37:29,516 --> 01:37:32,276
Speaker 1: I've been around the Chili Peppers a lot, so I

1608
01:37:32,556 --> 01:37:36,316
Speaker 1: probably know them better than somebody who I did, you

1609
01:37:36,356 --> 01:37:38,476
Speaker 1: know a couple of songs with like jay Z. But

1610
01:37:38,516 --> 01:37:41,276
Speaker 1: I feel very comfortable when I hang out with jay Z.

1611
01:37:41,316 --> 01:37:44,716
Speaker 1: I feel like pretty good friends. Feels good. I mean

1612
01:37:45,556 --> 01:37:49,036
Speaker 1: Andrew Dice Clay though I'm just saying I was. I

1613
01:37:49,076 --> 01:37:51,156
Speaker 1: was pretty close with Dice. I would go out every

1614
01:37:51,236 --> 01:37:54,836
Speaker 1: night to the Comedy Store after my session and we

1615
01:37:54,876 --> 01:37:57,436
Speaker 1: would hang out in the kitchen of the comedy stoor.

1616
01:37:57,556 --> 01:38:00,876
Speaker 1: Chris Rock would be there often also, I mean with

1617
01:38:00,876 --> 01:38:04,036
Speaker 1: with the Chili Peppers, how do you how do you

1618
01:38:04,076 --> 01:38:09,956
Speaker 1: see their growth as from where they were in nineteen

1619
01:38:11,076 --> 01:38:15,756
Speaker 1: ninety one. I'd assume that Blood Sugar, Sex Magic was

1620
01:38:15,796 --> 01:38:17,796
Speaker 1: the first time you work with them. You didn't do

1621
01:38:17,876 --> 01:38:21,676
Speaker 1: Mother's Milk? Correct? No, No, Although I like I thought

1622
01:38:21,756 --> 01:38:25,556
Speaker 1: Mother's Milk was their best record to date. That was

1623
01:38:25,636 --> 01:38:28,796
Speaker 1: the Mother's Milk was the record that made me excited

1624
01:38:28,836 --> 01:38:32,956
Speaker 1: to work with them. Okay, so how is it working

1625
01:38:32,996 --> 01:38:37,956
Speaker 1: with them? And managing their you know whatever, you have

1626
01:38:38,076 --> 01:38:43,116
Speaker 1: to juggle to make it right, as opposed to once

1627
01:38:43,196 --> 01:38:46,516
Speaker 1: they became more like a comfortable shoe that you were

1628
01:38:46,516 --> 01:38:51,076
Speaker 1: familiar with. I'll say, I think it's the same. I

1629
01:38:51,156 --> 01:38:55,196
Speaker 1: don't think um. I think the goal is always to

1630
01:38:55,276 --> 01:39:02,116
Speaker 1: treat people respectfully and honestly, and that happens regardless of

1631
01:39:02,156 --> 01:39:04,636
Speaker 1: how deep the relationship is. I don't. I don't think

1632
01:39:04,676 --> 01:39:07,756
Speaker 1: that changes. It's pretty much the thing we're there to

1633
01:39:07,876 --> 01:39:12,636
Speaker 1: do looks the same either way. The only other thing

1634
01:39:12,636 --> 01:39:14,396
Speaker 1: that I'll say, with the artists who I've made many

1635
01:39:14,436 --> 01:39:16,276
Speaker 1: records with another like system of a Down, I made

1636
01:39:16,276 --> 01:39:20,636
Speaker 1: all of their albums. With the bands that that I've

1637
01:39:20,636 --> 01:39:24,796
Speaker 1: worked with several times, there there gets to be a

1638
01:39:24,876 --> 01:39:29,036
Speaker 1: shorthand or like usually the first record we make together, same, Tom, Petty,

1639
01:39:29,316 --> 01:39:31,676
Speaker 1: all all of them. The first record we make together

1640
01:39:31,756 --> 01:39:35,636
Speaker 1: takes the longest because we're like filling each other out, Yeah,

1641
01:39:35,716 --> 01:39:38,876
Speaker 1: like figuring out a vocabulary of how we're gonna do it.

1642
01:39:39,916 --> 01:39:44,036
Speaker 1: But once that's established, it's much easier after that, but

1643
01:39:44,156 --> 01:39:48,196
Speaker 1: only only out of just that decoding, you know, decoding

1644
01:39:48,236 --> 01:39:53,276
Speaker 1: the system. Do you prefer piecemeal projects as far as

1645
01:39:54,516 --> 01:39:57,516
Speaker 1: getting uh, you know, they just say, look, I just

1646
01:39:57,556 --> 01:40:00,476
Speaker 1: want one song like you did one song on Justin

1647
01:40:00,516 --> 01:40:07,036
Speaker 1: Timberlakes record for Future Sex Sounds. Damn that sounds sex

1648
01:40:07,116 --> 01:40:11,356
Speaker 1: Love Sounds, Future Sex Magic Sounds. I don't know. As

1649
01:40:11,396 --> 01:40:15,956
Speaker 1: opposed to doing an entire album, what would you what

1650
01:40:16,036 --> 01:40:19,836
Speaker 1: do you prefer? I really like making albums. I don't

1651
01:40:19,876 --> 01:40:24,196
Speaker 1: like doing songs because I think that the nature of

1652
01:40:24,236 --> 01:40:28,916
Speaker 1: the process to get to an album, to get to

1653
01:40:29,116 --> 01:40:32,636
Speaker 1: one song, or to get to an album could be

1654
01:40:32,676 --> 01:40:38,676
Speaker 1: the same amount of experimentation. Do you know what I'm saying?

1655
01:40:38,716 --> 01:40:43,916
Speaker 1: Like to to find the voice. If you're working on

1656
01:40:43,916 --> 01:40:46,716
Speaker 1: one song, it takes just as long to figure out

1657
01:40:46,796 --> 01:40:51,276
Speaker 1: what that is. It may be longer because in a way,

1658
01:40:51,316 --> 01:40:54,116
Speaker 1: when you're working on shot, you only got one shot

1659
01:40:54,156 --> 01:40:55,836
Speaker 1: and it's hard to even know the way in it.

1660
01:40:55,916 --> 01:40:59,236
Speaker 1: But sometimes you'd be working on twenty songs and one

1661
01:40:59,356 --> 01:41:03,436
Speaker 1: song you're like, oh, that's the key to the whole thing.

1662
01:41:03,716 --> 01:41:06,156
Speaker 1: Now we know how it's all gonna work. Do you

1663
01:41:06,276 --> 01:41:09,636
Speaker 1: do you ever run into a situation in which where

1664
01:41:09,676 --> 01:41:14,996
Speaker 1: that trust isn't isn't there where you know an artist

1665
01:41:15,036 --> 01:41:17,636
Speaker 1: is stubborn They feel that you know, well, you know,

1666
01:41:19,076 --> 01:41:22,916
Speaker 1: I'm given a hypothetical example. I don't know, like if

1667
01:41:22,916 --> 01:41:27,916
Speaker 1: you can tell Adele okay sing this shit again, give

1668
01:41:27,956 --> 01:41:31,836
Speaker 1: me take nine and she'll knock it out. The part

1669
01:41:31,876 --> 01:41:36,436
Speaker 1: as opposed to again convincing the beastie boys that fight

1670
01:41:36,516 --> 01:41:39,916
Speaker 1: for your right is the song. And trust me on

1671
01:41:39,956 --> 01:41:42,916
Speaker 1: this one? Like how much trust me on this one?

1672
01:41:43,156 --> 01:41:46,956
Speaker 1: End quote? Do you have to go through in your post?

1673
01:41:47,876 --> 01:41:52,596
Speaker 1: In your post def jam posts American Recordings career? It's

1674
01:41:52,756 --> 01:41:55,396
Speaker 1: like now in terms of like working with Neil Diamond

1675
01:41:55,676 --> 01:42:01,676
Speaker 1: or even James Blake, Yeah, almost never, almost never. Trust

1676
01:42:01,756 --> 01:42:04,916
Speaker 1: me on this one. I don't like that the goal

1677
01:42:05,316 --> 01:42:08,596
Speaker 1: is to I always say at the beginning of a project,

1678
01:42:08,676 --> 01:42:13,396
Speaker 1: it's like everyone has to like it. Everyone here has

1679
01:42:13,476 --> 01:42:16,476
Speaker 1: to love it. If I love it and you don't

1680
01:42:16,516 --> 01:42:19,116
Speaker 1: love it, we've failed. If you love it and I

1681
01:42:19,116 --> 01:42:22,716
Speaker 1: don't love it, we've failed. It just means we haven't

1682
01:42:22,756 --> 01:42:25,596
Speaker 1: gone far enough if we don't all love it. Have

1683
01:42:25,716 --> 01:42:28,156
Speaker 1: you ever had to walk away from a project. I've

1684
01:42:28,196 --> 01:42:29,996
Speaker 1: never had to walk away, but I've been walked away

1685
01:42:30,036 --> 01:42:34,236
Speaker 1: on I'm not a quitter. I don't I don't quit projects,

1686
01:42:35,116 --> 01:42:37,436
Speaker 1: but there have been there've been a I can tell you.

1687
01:42:37,476 --> 01:42:40,596
Speaker 1: I can tell you about a couple. Uh tell, we tried,

1688
01:42:40,756 --> 01:42:45,476
Speaker 1: Like I started an album with Crosby, Sills and Nash

1689
01:42:45,596 --> 01:42:51,076
Speaker 1: and when ten years ago, twelve twelve, about ten years ago,

1690
01:42:51,516 --> 01:42:54,196
Speaker 1: and it was a and there was a case of

1691
01:42:54,236 --> 01:42:56,116
Speaker 1: there being a lack of trust, but the lack of

1692
01:42:56,156 --> 01:43:00,156
Speaker 1: trust more had to do with themselves, like within the band.

1693
01:43:00,436 --> 01:43:02,956
Speaker 1: Like there's another interesting thing. When the Chili Peppers first

1694
01:43:02,956 --> 01:43:05,516
Speaker 1: asked me to produce them, it was before Blood Sugar

1695
01:43:05,516 --> 01:43:10,916
Speaker 1: Sex Magic. It was two albums before that Sally, I

1696
01:43:10,956 --> 01:43:13,156
Speaker 1: think it was Freaky Sally, the one, the one where

1697
01:43:13,156 --> 01:43:15,436
Speaker 1: it was all of the original members. And I remember

1698
01:43:15,436 --> 01:43:20,276
Speaker 1: a friend of mine mofo thing yea, whichever one had

1699
01:43:20,316 --> 01:43:22,556
Speaker 1: all of the original members because a friend of mine said,

1700
01:43:23,556 --> 01:43:26,636
Speaker 1: who loved them, said, if you're ever going to produce

1701
01:43:26,636 --> 01:43:28,316
Speaker 1: the Chili Peppers, now as the time. It's all of

1702
01:43:28,356 --> 01:43:31,516
Speaker 1: the original members. This is the time. So me and

1703
01:43:31,596 --> 01:43:35,596
Speaker 1: Adam Harvits, beastie boy Adam Harvitz went to a rehearsal

1704
01:43:36,476 --> 01:43:39,276
Speaker 1: in La on Sunset Boulevard of the Chili Peppers at

1705
01:43:39,316 --> 01:43:42,836
Speaker 1: that time, and there was just a weird, bad vibe

1706
01:43:42,996 --> 01:43:45,356
Speaker 1: in the room. Had nothing to do with us. It

1707
01:43:45,396 --> 01:43:48,636
Speaker 1: was just between them. It felt shady, and I didn't

1708
01:43:48,676 --> 01:43:50,596
Speaker 1: know what it was. Now I've come to learn later

1709
01:43:50,716 --> 01:43:52,796
Speaker 1: it was drugs, but I didn't I didn't know that.

1710
01:43:52,836 --> 01:43:54,556
Speaker 1: I didn't know what to look for it that time.

1711
01:43:54,756 --> 01:44:00,476
Speaker 1: I just felt like yes, but there was the sense

1712
01:44:00,556 --> 01:44:04,196
Speaker 1: that these guys don't trust each other, like they didn't

1713
01:44:04,276 --> 01:44:08,116
Speaker 1: look at each other with like. It just felt shaky,

1714
01:44:08,356 --> 01:44:11,556
Speaker 1: the whole thing shaky, and it felt like I don't

1715
01:44:11,596 --> 01:44:13,516
Speaker 1: really think this is right for me to be around,

1716
01:44:13,556 --> 01:44:15,956
Speaker 1: Like I don't know how to do this. And another

1717
01:44:15,996 --> 01:44:19,716
Speaker 1: one was Joe Cocker. I went to the studio with

1718
01:44:19,796 --> 01:44:22,836
Speaker 1: Joe Cocker. I had it at the time that I

1719
01:44:22,876 --> 01:44:26,356
Speaker 1: produced a CDC and I got Malcolm Young to play

1720
01:44:26,436 --> 01:44:31,356
Speaker 1: rhythm guitar on Joe Cocker record. Mike Campbell from the Heartbreakers,

1721
01:44:31,836 --> 01:44:35,396
Speaker 1: Ben Mount from the Heartbreakers. It was a really good band.

1722
01:44:35,396 --> 01:44:39,716
Speaker 1: It was really good session and Joe. I wanted it

1723
01:44:39,756 --> 01:44:48,396
Speaker 1: to be a very raw, guttural, emotional album. And Joe

1724
01:44:49,876 --> 01:44:53,036
Speaker 1: saw himself more like Sting. He wanted to be more

1725
01:44:53,076 --> 01:45:01,556
Speaker 1: like a Sting album, like jazzy Stings, like very produced, adult,

1726
01:45:01,956 --> 01:45:06,436
Speaker 1: very adult man. He wanted, he wanted, he wanted his

1727
01:45:06,476 --> 01:45:11,036
Speaker 1: Grammy moment and thing, and I just it wasn't. It

1728
01:45:11,116 --> 01:45:13,356
Speaker 1: wasn't so much as I don't feel like I quit.

1729
01:45:13,516 --> 01:45:16,476
Speaker 1: It was just like our visions were so different that

1730
01:45:16,556 --> 01:45:20,836
Speaker 1: it just no one was really interested. We didn't nobody

1731
01:45:20,836 --> 01:45:24,396
Speaker 1: wanted to make the same thing, so that one didn't happen. Yes,

1732
01:45:24,476 --> 01:45:27,556
Speaker 1: but considering how many albums I've made, I could count

1733
01:45:27,596 --> 01:45:30,356
Speaker 1: on one hand, less than one hand, how many times

1734
01:45:30,356 --> 01:45:33,156
Speaker 1: it has not worked out. You mentioned a CDC, and

1735
01:45:33,156 --> 01:45:37,276
Speaker 1: I'm gonna forget this question. Are they do they have

1736
01:45:37,316 --> 01:45:43,436
Speaker 1: an iota or are they even remotely aware of how

1737
01:45:43,556 --> 01:45:48,316
Speaker 1: much flick of the switch has changed your life personally?

1738
01:45:49,476 --> 01:45:51,556
Speaker 1: Other than what I told them, you know, I told

1739
01:45:51,596 --> 01:45:56,236
Speaker 1: I would tell them it's like their their music. They

1740
01:45:56,276 --> 01:46:00,396
Speaker 1: have no idea that that one note has fed is

1741
01:46:00,396 --> 01:46:01,956
Speaker 1: that where it's from. I don't even know. I just

1742
01:46:02,076 --> 01:46:07,716
Speaker 1: randomly switch no, no, I knocked the bells and just

1743
01:46:07,956 --> 01:46:14,796
Speaker 1: the trademark Rick Rubinow, Okay, I always wanted to know.

1744
01:46:14,836 --> 01:46:17,716
Speaker 1: I wouldn't even know. It's so funny. I wouldn't have

1745
01:46:17,756 --> 01:46:21,516
Speaker 1: even known that that's what it was. I just literally

1746
01:46:21,516 --> 01:46:22,836
Speaker 1: every time it's like, oh, I think it's on an

1747
01:46:22,876 --> 01:46:25,916
Speaker 1: ACDC record, and I just hunt through every track until

1748
01:46:25,956 --> 01:46:30,356
Speaker 1: I find something and something like that. Man, it's very

1749
01:46:30,436 --> 01:46:36,316
Speaker 1: hip hop with you, okay, so LL's sophomore record. It's interesting, unusual,

1750
01:46:37,396 --> 01:46:41,316
Speaker 1: unusual story. I don't believe I've ever told it publicly. Um.

1751
01:46:42,196 --> 01:46:47,676
Speaker 1: At the time that I met El, he was being raised.

1752
01:46:47,956 --> 01:46:49,996
Speaker 1: His mom was in the picture, but he was mainly

1753
01:46:50,036 --> 01:46:52,916
Speaker 1: being raised by his grandmother, and he didn't know his dad.

1754
01:46:53,356 --> 01:46:58,116
Speaker 1: And then we made our first album together, and then

1755
01:46:58,236 --> 01:47:02,236
Speaker 1: he became LL cool J probably seventeen at that time.

1756
01:47:02,636 --> 01:47:10,076
Speaker 1: And then LLL's dad appears, Oh wow, and he comes back,

1757
01:47:11,036 --> 01:47:17,436
Speaker 1: and LLL obviously wants his dad and his and Russell

1758
01:47:17,596 --> 01:47:22,996
Speaker 1: was managing LLL and ll IF I remember correctly fired

1759
01:47:23,076 --> 01:47:26,476
Speaker 1: Russell and hired Jimmy, his dad, to be his manager,

1760
01:47:27,716 --> 01:47:33,116
Speaker 1: and I just I just felt like it was a

1761
01:47:33,156 --> 01:47:36,356
Speaker 1: bad vibe. Like I never discussed it with L. We

1762
01:47:36,436 --> 01:47:41,516
Speaker 1: never talked about it. It just felt like something's going

1763
01:47:41,556 --> 01:47:45,996
Speaker 1: on here that's dark, and this is not energy for

1764
01:47:46,036 --> 01:47:49,156
Speaker 1: me to be around. This good is not going to

1765
01:47:49,196 --> 01:47:52,796
Speaker 1: come from this situation, and I just sort of bowed

1766
01:47:52,796 --> 01:47:55,996
Speaker 1: out and then it ended up it ended up turning

1767
01:47:56,036 --> 01:47:59,876
Speaker 1: bad Um sometime I don't know how much longer, but

1768
01:48:00,236 --> 01:48:02,156
Speaker 1: I think there were ended up being problems between Ell

1769
01:48:02,236 --> 01:48:05,156
Speaker 1: and his dad after that, but it just yeah, it

1770
01:48:05,196 --> 01:48:09,236
Speaker 1: just felt too shady, felt too um. I didn't like

1771
01:48:09,316 --> 01:48:11,676
Speaker 1: that they were not nice to Russell when Russell really

1772
01:48:11,716 --> 01:48:14,556
Speaker 1: cared about Elle, like firing a guy who was really

1773
01:48:14,596 --> 01:48:17,676
Speaker 1: working for you. This new guy coming in the scene

1774
01:48:17,956 --> 01:48:20,796
Speaker 1: kind of under questionable. Yes he was his dad, but

1775
01:48:20,876 --> 01:48:23,956
Speaker 1: still why wasn't his dad before? He was all cool? Right,

1776
01:48:24,076 --> 01:48:29,716
Speaker 1: It was just it just felt very weird. Can you

1777
01:48:29,916 --> 01:48:37,036
Speaker 1: explain to me what exactly was your role in Jesus

1778
01:48:37,956 --> 01:48:43,276
Speaker 1: and in the life of Pablo, Because to see the

1779
01:48:43,316 --> 01:48:46,676
Speaker 1: credits on the albums, I'm just assuming that you're in

1780
01:48:46,796 --> 01:48:54,116
Speaker 1: a room with over twelve to twenty chefs and everyone's

1781
01:48:54,196 --> 01:48:58,076
Speaker 1: just throwing ideas in well, just based on looking at

1782
01:48:58,116 --> 01:49:04,596
Speaker 1: the album credits, like exactly, it's not exactly how it worked.

1783
01:49:04,836 --> 01:49:10,556
Speaker 1: Kanye built up the material over years? Is the for that?

1784
01:49:10,676 --> 01:49:16,036
Speaker 1: What ended up being? Yess? Okay? When he first came

1785
01:49:16,916 --> 01:49:18,996
Speaker 1: he called me, he called me and said, hey, I

1786
01:49:19,036 --> 01:49:21,636
Speaker 1: want to come over and play in my new album. Okay,

1787
01:49:21,716 --> 01:49:24,996
Speaker 1: It's like great. He came over and we listened to

1788
01:49:25,156 --> 01:49:30,516
Speaker 1: three hours of music yo, with almost no vocals, like

1789
01:49:30,596 --> 01:49:35,196
Speaker 1: just yes, and it's like wow, cool, It's like off

1790
01:49:35,196 --> 01:49:37,916
Speaker 1: to a good start. What do you know, what are

1791
01:49:37,916 --> 01:49:40,156
Speaker 1: you thinking you're gonna you know, make you think you'll

1792
01:49:40,156 --> 01:49:42,676
Speaker 1: finish next year or something. He's like, it's coming out

1793
01:49:42,716 --> 01:49:49,476
Speaker 1: in three weeks, and I said, what it's like? It

1794
01:49:49,596 --> 01:49:51,756
Speaker 1: made no sense. And then and I played in Black Sabbath.

1795
01:49:51,796 --> 01:49:54,076
Speaker 1: I said, you know, ad this Black Sabbath album that's

1796
01:49:54,156 --> 01:49:57,876
Speaker 1: done and mastered, and that's not coming out in three weeks,

1797
01:49:57,956 --> 01:50:01,916
Speaker 1: that's coming out later than that. It's like this, this

1798
01:50:01,996 --> 01:50:03,796
Speaker 1: is what it sounds like when it's coming out in

1799
01:50:03,836 --> 01:50:10,036
Speaker 1: three weeks. And and he said, I want you to

1800
01:50:10,076 --> 01:50:11,796
Speaker 1: help me finish it. I want it to be like,

1801
01:50:13,796 --> 01:50:18,796
Speaker 1: let's finish it. And it was a terrifying experience because

1802
01:50:18,836 --> 01:50:20,596
Speaker 1: I've never worked on anything like that. I don't like

1803
01:50:20,636 --> 01:50:23,796
Speaker 1: to work on a deadline ever. Anyway, It's like I

1804
01:50:23,836 --> 01:50:26,556
Speaker 1: always feel like it sort of happens as it's supposed

1805
01:50:26,596 --> 01:50:29,276
Speaker 1: to happen. Some things happened very quickly, some things take

1806
01:50:29,316 --> 01:50:33,556
Speaker 1: a long time. LLL's first album probably took less than

1807
01:50:33,596 --> 01:50:35,796
Speaker 1: a month to record. And when I say less than

1808
01:50:35,836 --> 01:50:39,956
Speaker 1: a month, meaning a song a day that's on the

1809
01:50:40,036 --> 01:50:43,876
Speaker 1: album over the course of a month. Do you know

1810
01:50:43,876 --> 01:50:45,436
Speaker 1: what I'm saying? Not in the studio every day for

1811
01:50:45,476 --> 01:50:48,516
Speaker 1: a month, Like I got a new track, Let's go

1812
01:50:48,516 --> 01:50:53,876
Speaker 1: in on Thursday. That happening totally a month, whereas the

1813
01:50:53,876 --> 01:50:59,236
Speaker 1: First beast with the First Beasties album was probably two

1814
01:50:59,356 --> 01:51:02,756
Speaker 1: years in the making, and it just took that long.

1815
01:51:02,876 --> 01:51:05,436
Speaker 1: It just took not every day again, it was like,

1816
01:51:06,916 --> 01:51:09,676
Speaker 1: it just takes a long time because the you're waiting

1817
01:51:09,716 --> 01:51:11,996
Speaker 1: for the ideas to come. It's like, it's not pre written,

1818
01:51:12,716 --> 01:51:15,516
Speaker 1: we're writing it now. Now most of the artists I

1819
01:51:15,556 --> 01:51:18,316
Speaker 1: work with, we don't go into the studio until it's

1820
01:51:18,396 --> 01:51:21,596
Speaker 1: mostly all written. So it's a different it's a different experience,

1821
01:51:21,636 --> 01:51:24,316
Speaker 1: and that could happen in a much shorter time. Wait,

1822
01:51:24,316 --> 01:51:26,436
Speaker 1: so did Kanye already have his verses written but they

1823
01:51:26,436 --> 01:51:32,596
Speaker 1: just weren't on the tracks? No? No, it wasn't even

1824
01:51:32,636 --> 01:51:34,356
Speaker 1: clear what the songs were going to sound like or

1825
01:51:34,396 --> 01:51:36,156
Speaker 1: what was going to be on the album. It was

1826
01:51:36,556 --> 01:51:40,556
Speaker 1: a very wide range of songs and it was super cool.

1827
01:51:40,756 --> 01:51:43,276
Speaker 1: It was cool. I've come to learn that's the way

1828
01:51:43,276 --> 01:51:46,996
Speaker 1: he works. This was I'd never worked like that before,

1829
01:51:46,996 --> 01:51:48,836
Speaker 1: so it was unusual to me. To him, it was

1830
01:51:48,916 --> 01:51:51,676
Speaker 1: standard in the past. When I've said he wrote you

1831
01:51:51,716 --> 01:51:54,436
Speaker 1: know half of the lyrics on the last two days

1832
01:51:54,476 --> 01:51:57,636
Speaker 1: that like I'm saying he doesn't care about it, that's

1833
01:51:57,756 --> 01:52:02,916
Speaker 1: not at all the case. It's his process is living

1834
01:52:02,916 --> 01:52:05,916
Speaker 1: with it. He's singing to himself internally all the time,

1835
01:52:06,436 --> 01:52:10,276
Speaker 1: and he doesn't like to commit. He doesn't commit it

1836
01:52:10,436 --> 01:52:16,396
Speaker 1: down until it's gonna stay because otherwise it's gonna change.

1837
01:52:16,716 --> 01:52:19,756
Speaker 1: So he doesn't like if he would have done if

1838
01:52:19,756 --> 01:52:21,676
Speaker 1: he would have played me songs with vocals done, the

1839
01:52:21,676 --> 01:52:26,156
Speaker 1: album already would have been out. In the way he works. Yeah,

1840
01:52:26,196 --> 01:52:31,516
Speaker 1: I was gonna say, I remember whatever day that Jesus

1841
01:52:31,556 --> 01:52:37,436
Speaker 1: came out. I remember texting you maybe like three days before,

1842
01:52:39,036 --> 01:52:42,076
Speaker 1: just doing some okay, is it going to happen or not?

1843
01:52:42,676 --> 01:52:46,476
Speaker 1: Because I think they had a pushback date or whatever.

1844
01:52:46,516 --> 01:52:48,556
Speaker 1: There's like a day that I was supposed to come

1845
01:52:48,556 --> 01:52:51,916
Speaker 1: out and it didn't and you were like, we're literally

1846
01:52:52,876 --> 01:52:55,196
Speaker 1: in the middle of trying to wrap up right now.

1847
01:52:55,996 --> 01:52:58,636
Speaker 1: And I was like, wait a minute, if you're in

1848
01:52:58,676 --> 01:53:00,556
Speaker 1: the middle of trapping right like doing it right now,

1849
01:53:00,596 --> 01:53:03,356
Speaker 1: and then is the record pressed up? And like I'm

1850
01:53:03,396 --> 01:53:05,356
Speaker 1: thinking in terms of the old system where you had

1851
01:53:05,396 --> 01:53:08,396
Speaker 1: to turn it in three months ahead of time, factory

1852
01:53:08,516 --> 01:53:12,636
Speaker 1: all those things, and literally, well, even with Pablo, you

1853
01:53:12,676 --> 01:53:17,276
Speaker 1: guys were still editing and changing it. And next thing

1854
01:53:17,316 --> 01:53:19,436
Speaker 1: I knew I had three different versions of the Pablo

1855
01:53:19,476 --> 01:53:22,476
Speaker 1: record because he just kept changing it over again. I

1856
01:53:22,516 --> 01:53:25,596
Speaker 1: remember when we finished Jesus and it came out about

1857
01:53:25,636 --> 01:53:29,116
Speaker 1: a week later. A week or two later, Kindie came

1858
01:53:29,156 --> 01:53:32,436
Speaker 1: to the studio in Malibu and just we just started

1859
01:53:32,436 --> 01:53:33,996
Speaker 1: talking about what do you think's next, Like what do

1860
01:53:33,996 --> 01:53:35,556
Speaker 1: you think the next one's going to be like? And

1861
01:53:35,796 --> 01:53:41,356
Speaker 1: he was kind of excited to at least start marching

1862
01:53:41,396 --> 01:53:43,996
Speaker 1: in a direction, and we just started brainstorming and we

1863
01:53:44,076 --> 01:53:47,156
Speaker 1: had an idea then that actually ended up it ended

1864
01:53:47,236 --> 01:53:50,836
Speaker 1: up not being so much what not so much what

1865
01:53:50,876 --> 01:53:53,676
Speaker 1: Pablo's like. But it has come around to that eventually.

1866
01:53:54,716 --> 01:53:58,876
Speaker 1: But after we had a similar conversation the end. When

1867
01:53:59,076 --> 01:54:02,556
Speaker 1: Pablo got delivered, I was in Hawaii and I remember

1868
01:54:02,876 --> 01:54:05,516
Speaker 1: getting new versions of the album every day to listen

1869
01:54:05,516 --> 01:54:07,916
Speaker 1: to and give my notes. And I was giving notes

1870
01:54:07,956 --> 01:54:10,516
Speaker 1: every day. It's like I just listen. I would drive

1871
01:54:10,596 --> 01:54:14,076
Speaker 1: up and down the road here in Kauai and listen

1872
01:54:14,156 --> 01:54:16,636
Speaker 1: and like, okay, this is you know, this is working.

1873
01:54:16,756 --> 01:54:19,356
Speaker 1: Let's remix this, let's try this, and whatever. Notes, you know,

1874
01:54:19,396 --> 01:54:22,396
Speaker 1: anything that I could add to help make it better. Um.

1875
01:54:23,716 --> 01:54:26,876
Speaker 1: And then I talked to Kanye again like it was

1876
01:54:26,956 --> 01:54:28,836
Speaker 1: now a ritual a couple of weeks after the record

1877
01:54:28,876 --> 01:54:31,836
Speaker 1: comes out, and um, and I'd say, oh, so, what

1878
01:54:31,876 --> 01:54:33,236
Speaker 1: are you thinking about? What are you what are you

1879
01:54:33,236 --> 01:54:35,476
Speaker 1: working on? He's like, I'm working on this mix on

1880
01:54:36,676 --> 01:54:38,596
Speaker 1: SO and so. It's one of the songs on Pablo.

1881
01:54:38,636 --> 01:54:43,796
Speaker 1: It's like, that's out. What are you talking about. It's like, well, yeah,

1882
01:54:43,796 --> 01:54:47,916
Speaker 1: it's out, but I'm not done yet. Like really, It's like,

1883
01:54:48,156 --> 01:54:51,436
Speaker 1: I it just like, blew my mind the conversation. Blew

1884
01:54:51,516 --> 01:54:55,076
Speaker 1: my mind. You still because up until well up, yeah,

1885
01:54:55,236 --> 01:54:57,956
Speaker 1: in my over the course of my life, once it

1886
01:54:58,036 --> 01:55:03,956
Speaker 1: came out, that was it. Ye. So to just that

1887
01:55:04,916 --> 01:55:07,276
Speaker 1: his ability to see pass well, just because that's the

1888
01:55:07,316 --> 01:55:08,996
Speaker 1: way it always is. That means the way it is. No,

1889
01:55:09,276 --> 01:55:11,236
Speaker 1: it's like, if I want to change it, I'll change it,

1890
01:55:11,276 --> 01:55:14,476
Speaker 1: and I'll change as many times as I want. It's incredible.

1891
01:55:14,876 --> 01:55:21,436
Speaker 1: Blew my mind loved it. Wow to me hearing the

1892
01:55:21,516 --> 01:55:25,756
Speaker 1: Jesus record. And you know, I admit that I'd consume

1893
01:55:25,836 --> 01:55:30,236
Speaker 1: most of my music now via my iPhone and my computer,

1894
01:55:31,156 --> 01:55:32,796
Speaker 1: not in the same way that I would have, you know,

1895
01:55:32,916 --> 01:55:35,436
Speaker 1: twenty years ago, like and put it in the stereos

1896
01:55:35,476 --> 01:55:38,396
Speaker 1: and yeah, that sort of thing. So at first I was,

1897
01:55:38,596 --> 01:55:41,756
Speaker 1: I was, the mix was just really harsh to me.

1898
01:55:42,036 --> 01:55:46,156
Speaker 1: And then once I heard it at Madison Square Garden

1899
01:55:47,396 --> 01:55:50,156
Speaker 1: with no drums, I mean, the thing was like, drums

1900
01:55:50,236 --> 01:55:54,036
Speaker 1: is almost non existent on this record, And then I

1901
01:55:54,196 --> 01:55:58,756
Speaker 1: realized that, oh wow, this album was made for stadiums,

1902
01:55:58,756 --> 01:56:02,356
Speaker 1: and stadiums. Only when you guys are working in the studio,

1903
01:56:02,716 --> 01:56:07,556
Speaker 1: are you blasting the music at the highest levels possible,

1904
01:56:07,676 --> 01:56:10,396
Speaker 1: like z he violating the don't kill your ears in

1905
01:56:10,476 --> 01:56:13,316
Speaker 1: the studio thing, or because I was taught like when

1906
01:56:13,316 --> 01:56:16,516
Speaker 1: you're in the studio, you're supposed to have soft volumes,

1907
01:56:16,516 --> 01:56:19,316
Speaker 1: so that way you don't kill your ears when you're mixing.

1908
01:56:19,916 --> 01:56:23,756
Speaker 1: But I know, like rappers, not to take him as

1909
01:56:23,836 --> 01:56:26,756
Speaker 1: quote rappers, but I know that we you know, want

1910
01:56:26,756 --> 01:56:29,236
Speaker 1: to hear that shit loud and you know, hit the

1911
01:56:29,276 --> 01:56:33,876
Speaker 1: OX button now like that sort of thing. But we listen.

1912
01:56:34,236 --> 01:56:38,836
Speaker 1: We listen at realistic levels. So in other words, if

1913
01:56:38,836 --> 01:56:41,556
Speaker 1: the thing we're making is meant to be heard loud,

1914
01:56:41,956 --> 01:56:46,356
Speaker 1: we listen to it loud. And we don't have giant speakers.

1915
01:56:46,356 --> 01:56:49,316
Speaker 1: We just use regular you know, like the monitors that

1916
01:56:49,356 --> 01:56:52,556
Speaker 1: would sit on the desk. We don't use big giant monitors.

1917
01:56:53,196 --> 01:56:57,396
Speaker 1: Um okay. Kanye uses some some big ones with with

1918
01:56:58,396 --> 01:57:00,116
Speaker 1: that are much louder than the ones that we have

1919
01:57:00,156 --> 01:57:02,836
Speaker 1: in the studio that I always request it to be

1920
01:57:02,876 --> 01:57:06,876
Speaker 1: turned down because it's too much for me. Um, you're

1921
01:57:06,956 --> 01:57:10,436
Speaker 1: to for a while you were president of Columbia Records.

1922
01:57:10,596 --> 01:57:16,196
Speaker 1: Why did you decide to take a desk job and why?

1923
01:57:16,236 --> 01:57:18,676
Speaker 1: I mean, how how was that experience for that that

1924
01:57:18,876 --> 01:57:22,996
Speaker 1: that tenure as president of Columbia. Uh, it was not

1925
01:57:23,076 --> 01:57:30,236
Speaker 1: a desk job, which is why I entertained. And my

1926
01:57:30,316 --> 01:57:33,756
Speaker 1: thought was the thing that I do on records has

1927
01:57:33,756 --> 01:57:39,316
Speaker 1: has very little to do with music. It's like my

1928
01:57:39,396 --> 01:57:43,156
Speaker 1: style of production. It would it would work regardless of

1929
01:57:43,156 --> 01:57:45,956
Speaker 1: whether it was music. It's like a way to look

1930
01:57:45,956 --> 01:57:50,476
Speaker 1: at things. It's a recontextualization of what we're working on

1931
01:57:50,956 --> 01:57:56,316
Speaker 1: and solving problems. I happened to do it mostly in

1932
01:57:56,436 --> 01:58:00,196
Speaker 1: music because that's just how it ended up, right, But

1933
01:58:00,316 --> 01:58:04,076
Speaker 1: the idea was to apply the same like what would

1934
01:58:04,116 --> 01:58:08,116
Speaker 1: it be like to produce a record company? Wow? And

1935
01:58:09,116 --> 01:58:14,556
Speaker 1: there were other people to do the desk work. And

1936
01:58:14,716 --> 01:58:18,956
Speaker 1: this was to be more of a helping curate the

1937
01:58:18,996 --> 01:58:23,036
Speaker 1: best artists, helping the artists make the best records that

1938
01:58:23,076 --> 01:58:26,116
Speaker 1: they can. Basically the same thing that I do, except

1939
01:58:26,156 --> 01:58:29,836
Speaker 1: on a bigger scale. And at the time we by

1940
01:58:29,836 --> 01:58:33,516
Speaker 1: the time, right till the end there, Columbia Records went

1941
01:58:33,596 --> 01:58:38,156
Speaker 1: from sort of a not great roster to maybe the

1942
01:58:38,196 --> 01:58:40,996
Speaker 1: best roster in the business at that moment in time.

1943
01:58:41,836 --> 01:58:46,916
Speaker 1: The corporate politics of it were not something that suited

1944
01:58:47,036 --> 01:58:54,596
Speaker 1: who I am, and I didn't engage. So basically it'd

1945
01:58:54,636 --> 01:58:57,716
Speaker 1: be like if you're running for a office for office

1946
01:58:58,436 --> 01:59:02,436
Speaker 1: and you're fighting with You're in a debate with someone

1947
01:59:02,476 --> 01:59:06,036
Speaker 1: who's screaming at you and lying and cursing. I'm not

1948
01:59:06,116 --> 01:59:11,436
Speaker 1: doing that. So ultimately the situation worked in a way

1949
01:59:11,476 --> 01:59:16,156
Speaker 1: where it wasn't really good. It could have been great,

1950
01:59:16,396 --> 01:59:20,476
Speaker 1: and it creatively was great, but had had the politics

1951
01:59:20,516 --> 01:59:23,476
Speaker 1: not come into it, I think would still be doing it.

1952
01:59:23,516 --> 01:59:27,796
Speaker 1: And will you ever establish a label? Well, I don't

1953
01:59:27,796 --> 01:59:30,676
Speaker 1: know there's a need to establish a label in twenty twenty,

1954
01:59:30,716 --> 01:59:36,276
Speaker 1: but whatever the twenty twenty version of starting a deaf

1955
01:59:36,356 --> 01:59:41,036
Speaker 1: jam or a Deaf American or Colombia, will you ever

1956
01:59:41,196 --> 01:59:44,196
Speaker 1: dive in that Pool again, Are you fine with the

1957
01:59:44,316 --> 01:59:47,156
Speaker 1: zone that you're in right now? If there are any

1958
01:59:47,196 --> 01:59:48,916
Speaker 1: acts that I want to work with which are few

1959
01:59:48,916 --> 01:59:51,996
Speaker 1: and far between, that I want to sign, then I

1960
01:59:52,036 --> 01:59:54,396
Speaker 1: have a relationship with Universal where I can sign an

1961
01:59:54,396 --> 01:59:57,276
Speaker 1: act and it'll be on American and it'll come out

1962
01:59:57,916 --> 02:00:00,116
Speaker 1: and I don't have to have a staff. It's like

1963
02:00:00,156 --> 02:00:04,236
Speaker 1: they do the record company part and I could be

1964
02:00:04,356 --> 02:00:07,876
Speaker 1: the creative partner. And that feels about right. I mean,

1965
02:00:07,916 --> 02:00:11,396
Speaker 1: if there was a reason to reinvent the label or

1966
02:00:11,516 --> 02:00:16,836
Speaker 1: help them get better, I'd be open to discussing. It's

1967
02:00:16,876 --> 02:00:20,836
Speaker 1: like I like making. I like the challenge of making

1968
02:00:20,876 --> 02:00:23,356
Speaker 1: something good whatever it is, like figuring out how do

1969
02:00:23,356 --> 02:00:26,076
Speaker 1: we make this better. I always wanted to ask you

1970
02:00:26,116 --> 02:00:29,956
Speaker 1: about sir mix a lot Man. What led you signing him?

1971
02:00:29,956 --> 02:00:33,956
Speaker 1: My buddy, yeah, shout him, my buddy Dan Charnis who

1972
02:00:33,996 --> 02:00:38,076
Speaker 1: yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah yeah. And he brought up

1973
02:00:38,076 --> 02:00:39,676
Speaker 1: a real We had him on the show like when

1974
02:00:39,676 --> 02:00:41,676
Speaker 1: we first started, like a couple of years back, and

1975
02:00:41,716 --> 02:00:43,836
Speaker 1: he brought up a really interesting thing I never really

1976
02:00:43,876 --> 02:00:46,636
Speaker 1: noticed about you of like he noticed you kind of

1977
02:00:46,636 --> 02:00:49,956
Speaker 1: tend to go for kind of nasally mcs like ad

1978
02:00:50,036 --> 02:00:51,756
Speaker 1: Rod mix a Lot you know what I mean, they

1979
02:00:51,796 --> 02:00:54,116
Speaker 1: have that kind of similar tone. Um, so I was

1980
02:00:54,116 --> 02:00:56,156
Speaker 1: curious to know, like, what how did you find out

1981
02:00:56,196 --> 02:00:57,996
Speaker 1: about Mix a Lot and what led do you signing him?

1982
02:00:59,556 --> 02:01:06,356
Speaker 1: Love the record Posse on Broadway? Yes, yes, your record? No, well,

1983
02:01:06,556 --> 02:01:11,836
Speaker 1: no was on this. This is all I'm saying, and

1984
02:01:12,036 --> 02:01:14,436
Speaker 1: I'm so glad you brought this up. Fante, How did

1985
02:01:14,436 --> 02:01:17,956
Speaker 1: you I never as a Philadelphia and I feel guilty

1986
02:01:17,996 --> 02:01:22,596
Speaker 1: for not mentioning what your relationship to PSK was and

1987
02:01:22,756 --> 02:01:26,236
Speaker 1: by the transit of Vaccium, how did you feel about

1988
02:01:27,236 --> 02:01:31,596
Speaker 1: the way the entire West Coast sort of ate up

1989
02:01:32,516 --> 02:01:35,836
Speaker 1: that particular style because that was with sir Mix a Lot.

1990
02:01:35,916 --> 02:01:39,596
Speaker 1: That was especially with the first in Way record. Every

1991
02:01:39,876 --> 02:01:49,076
Speaker 1: song was like it was practically the West Coast. Like

1992
02:01:49,596 --> 02:01:54,876
Speaker 1: were you at all aware of the blueprint that license

1993
02:01:54,916 --> 02:01:58,756
Speaker 1: the ill gave to the entire coast? Not really, I think,

1994
02:01:58,836 --> 02:02:02,116
Speaker 1: probably too close to see. How Also, you know, I

1995
02:02:02,636 --> 02:02:06,116
Speaker 1: come to realize later that Brass Monkey, like there was

1996
02:02:06,156 --> 02:02:08,956
Speaker 1: no such thing as Miami Base before Brass Monkey. So

1997
02:02:09,116 --> 02:02:11,156
Speaker 1: it's like it it led to a lot of different

1998
02:02:11,676 --> 02:02:15,356
Speaker 1: It had different tentacles that inspired people in different ways, No,

1999
02:02:15,356 --> 02:02:17,876
Speaker 1: no doubt, man, So a Mix a Lot, how you

2000
02:02:17,996 --> 02:02:20,156
Speaker 1: like Plasto braadway? And then how'd you go about it?

2001
02:02:20,356 --> 02:02:21,636
Speaker 1: I just reach out to him and said, hey, if

2002
02:02:21,636 --> 02:02:23,436
Speaker 1: this ever an opportunity to work together, I'd love to

2003
02:02:23,476 --> 02:02:25,676
Speaker 1: do it. And then it ended up working out. He's like, well,

2004
02:02:25,676 --> 02:02:27,116
Speaker 1: I'm on my own label. I don't really want to

2005
02:02:27,156 --> 02:02:30,356
Speaker 1: do that now. But and then eventually came around like, yep,

2006
02:02:30,396 --> 02:02:34,956
Speaker 1: I think I'm ready to do this. Let's do this American?

2007
02:02:35,396 --> 02:02:38,916
Speaker 1: Was that on American? Yes? Oh? Okay? That was? That

2008
02:02:38,956 --> 02:02:42,316
Speaker 1: was on a Macdaddy album? Okay, And I can't remember.

2009
02:02:42,436 --> 02:02:45,596
Speaker 1: I've heard Mix a Lot say that I changed the

2010
02:02:45,636 --> 02:02:49,276
Speaker 1: tempo of it drastically in a way that he loves.

2011
02:02:49,356 --> 02:02:52,436
Speaker 1: But like that I heard it differently than he heard it.

2012
02:02:52,476 --> 02:02:54,396
Speaker 1: I don't really remember that, but that I've heard him

2013
02:02:54,436 --> 02:02:56,916
Speaker 1: say that. He's saying that he physically slowed it down.

2014
02:02:57,756 --> 02:02:59,956
Speaker 1: I think I sped it up. They sped it up,

2015
02:03:00,756 --> 02:03:02,996
Speaker 1: but I'm not sure. I honestly I don't remember it

2016
02:03:02,996 --> 02:03:05,756
Speaker 1: at all. He would, he would know better than I.

2017
02:03:05,756 --> 02:03:07,996
Speaker 1: I was gonna say. Just back on your American stee

2018
02:03:08,196 --> 02:03:11,076
Speaker 1: there was a record you signed that was It really

2019
02:03:11,076 --> 02:03:13,036
Speaker 1: took me by surprise that you signed them because it

2020
02:03:13,076 --> 02:03:15,756
Speaker 1: was unlike anything that you would ever sign or worked

2021
02:03:15,796 --> 02:03:19,076
Speaker 1: with before the record The Knots were ultimate. I don't

2022
02:03:19,116 --> 02:03:23,476
Speaker 1: know if you even remember. Yeah, yeah that was that

2023
02:03:23,556 --> 02:03:28,516
Speaker 1: was a Dan Charnis signing. That was n Chars my shit,

2024
02:03:29,796 --> 02:03:33,676
Speaker 1: and I forgot Yeah, of course a bad Lad too.

2025
02:03:33,876 --> 02:03:37,956
Speaker 1: Is that Dan Charnis as well? I think so damn yes, Okay,

2026
02:03:37,996 --> 02:03:40,716
Speaker 1: I totally forgot about those too. So with your A

2027
02:03:40,836 --> 02:03:42,756
Speaker 1: and R is you just pretty much let them kind

2028
02:03:42,756 --> 02:03:44,756
Speaker 1: of do them, just like if y'all like it, y'all

2029
02:03:44,756 --> 02:03:46,716
Speaker 1: believe in it, I'll fuck with it. Like what was

2030
02:03:46,756 --> 02:03:49,436
Speaker 1: your Roland it was? It was a combination. It's like

2031
02:03:49,596 --> 02:03:51,876
Speaker 1: if they were really passionate, either I had to like

2032
02:03:51,956 --> 02:03:54,556
Speaker 1: it too, or if they were really passionate, it's like,

2033
02:03:54,596 --> 02:03:56,916
Speaker 1: this is the one. The whole idea of having more

2034
02:03:56,956 --> 02:03:59,596
Speaker 1: A and R people was not just to find stuff

2035
02:03:59,636 --> 02:04:01,836
Speaker 1: for me. It was like if someone really was in

2036
02:04:01,836 --> 02:04:05,116
Speaker 1: love with something, then it was exciting to see what

2037
02:04:05,156 --> 02:04:07,076
Speaker 1: could happen. And it worked out in the case of

2038
02:04:07,116 --> 02:04:09,556
Speaker 1: the if you like those records that dance, and if

2039
02:04:09,556 --> 02:04:12,396
Speaker 1: you liked the Black Crows that George signed, then it worked.

2040
02:04:12,716 --> 02:04:15,676
Speaker 1: I got warmer music question before I ask you my

2041
02:04:15,796 --> 02:04:20,636
Speaker 1: last question, because we could be twelve hours working. Well,

2042
02:04:20,676 --> 02:04:23,916
Speaker 1: I know that you produced, and I'm a big fan

2043
02:04:23,916 --> 02:04:26,636
Speaker 1: of the Strokes. I know that you worked on the

2044
02:04:26,676 --> 02:04:30,556
Speaker 1: New Abnormal. First of all, did that title come up

2045
02:04:30,956 --> 02:04:36,396
Speaker 1: in very last minute? No, in relation to where we

2046
02:04:36,436 --> 02:04:40,476
Speaker 1: are now, because that that that's sort of a apropos title,

2047
02:04:41,036 --> 02:04:43,996
Speaker 1: did not It just it was a title that m

2048
02:04:45,356 --> 02:04:50,516
Speaker 1: that Julian came up with their pre pre virus, and

2049
02:04:50,596 --> 02:04:56,436
Speaker 1: it's again just sort of the universe conspiring to make

2050
02:04:56,436 --> 02:05:00,676
Speaker 1: the art, right. I'm assuming that they recorded out in

2051
02:05:00,756 --> 02:05:04,516
Speaker 1: Hawaii with you. With you we recorded in Malibu, Okay,

2052
02:05:05,196 --> 02:05:08,156
Speaker 1: which I think is kind of different than all the

2053
02:05:08,196 --> 02:05:11,956
Speaker 1: studios that they pre obviously recorded their music. And so

2054
02:05:12,396 --> 02:05:16,236
Speaker 1: how hard was it to get the well oiled machine

2055
02:05:16,236 --> 02:05:21,556
Speaker 1: of what the Strokes represented, especially in in the early aughts,

2056
02:05:21,556 --> 02:05:23,476
Speaker 1: And I know there was so much pressure on them

2057
02:05:23,516 --> 02:05:27,876
Speaker 1: to be the next big thing in quotes like how

2058
02:05:27,956 --> 02:05:30,796
Speaker 1: much of that was on their minds making this record?

2059
02:05:30,796 --> 02:05:33,636
Speaker 1: Because I can only assume that they took a ten

2060
02:05:33,716 --> 02:05:37,676
Speaker 1: year hiatus because of the pressure of living up to

2061
02:05:37,796 --> 02:05:42,436
Speaker 1: something that they couldn't sort of jump over a hurdle

2062
02:05:42,516 --> 02:05:45,116
Speaker 1: that they couldn't match or whatever. Well, I think that

2063
02:05:46,076 --> 02:05:50,756
Speaker 1: the first record they put out was there considered their

2064
02:05:50,836 --> 02:05:53,596
Speaker 1: like breakthrough. That was the one, that's the one that

2065
02:05:53,676 --> 02:05:56,756
Speaker 1: sort of lit everything up. And the second album, the

2066
02:05:56,836 --> 02:06:01,196
Speaker 1: second album seems like it didn't change the world, but

2067
02:06:01,316 --> 02:06:04,636
Speaker 1: continued that and then since then it's been more hit

2068
02:06:04,716 --> 02:06:11,316
Speaker 1: and miss. So I don't think they felt a tremendous don't.

2069
02:06:11,356 --> 02:06:13,956
Speaker 1: I didn't get the sense that they felt a tremendous

2070
02:06:13,996 --> 02:06:17,316
Speaker 1: amount of pressure. I think they felt like, let's make

2071
02:06:17,356 --> 02:06:19,756
Speaker 1: another album because that's what we do, we haven't done

2072
02:06:19,796 --> 02:06:22,836
Speaker 1: it in a while, and hoping it would be good.

2073
02:06:22,876 --> 02:06:25,116
Speaker 1: You know. It's another like the Chili Peppers. They had

2074
02:06:25,116 --> 02:06:28,716
Speaker 1: asked me to produce an album eight or ten years ago,

2075
02:06:29,436 --> 02:06:33,876
Speaker 1: and they sent me demos and I listened to demos

2076
02:06:33,876 --> 02:06:38,436
Speaker 1: and I just I couldn't hear. I couldn't imagine how

2077
02:06:38,516 --> 02:06:41,716
Speaker 1: this like, how to make something that interesting with what

2078
02:06:41,756 --> 02:06:43,836
Speaker 1: they sent like it didn't. It was just not a

2079
02:06:43,836 --> 02:06:47,476
Speaker 1: good starting point. And if that's a no from you,

2080
02:06:48,036 --> 02:06:51,276
Speaker 1: is does that filter to them that oh shit, this

2081
02:06:51,396 --> 02:06:55,156
Speaker 1: might be bad. I don't know. I just I just said,

2082
02:06:55,396 --> 02:06:56,876
Speaker 1: I don't think this is right for me. I don't

2083
02:06:56,876 --> 02:06:59,356
Speaker 1: I don't see how to do this and then on

2084
02:06:59,396 --> 02:07:04,836
Speaker 1: this album they sent me demos and these were probably

2085
02:07:04,916 --> 02:07:09,596
Speaker 1: the worst quality demos I've ever gotten from any artist,

2086
02:07:09,956 --> 02:07:13,596
Speaker 1: in that one track might be a thirty second voice

2087
02:07:13,596 --> 02:07:20,676
Speaker 1: note on the phone, like real, very very basic, like

2088
02:07:21,956 --> 02:07:27,156
Speaker 1: thumbnail sketches, and I listened to that vs and it's like, Oh,

2089
02:07:27,196 --> 02:07:29,636
Speaker 1: this is gonna be great. We gotta make this. It's

2090
02:07:29,676 --> 02:07:34,636
Speaker 1: like I could I could feel what was there was inspiring.

2091
02:07:34,676 --> 02:07:36,716
Speaker 1: It's like you could listen to a twenty second clip

2092
02:07:36,756 --> 02:07:39,196
Speaker 1: and go, oh, if there was a song that sounded

2093
02:07:39,236 --> 02:07:41,916
Speaker 1: like this twenty second clip, I'd listen to that all day.

2094
02:07:42,276 --> 02:07:45,956
Speaker 1: Let's make that. So is that the beginning of working

2095
02:07:45,956 --> 02:07:49,836
Speaker 1: with you, like one has to send the roughest sketch

2096
02:07:49,876 --> 02:07:53,316
Speaker 1: of a song before you can see the light to

2097
02:07:53,356 --> 02:07:57,396
Speaker 1: see how you can develop it. Or does everyone do

2098
02:07:57,436 --> 02:08:00,036
Speaker 1: the Kanye thing where it's damn near completed and then

2099
02:08:00,116 --> 02:08:03,556
Speaker 1: you just you can add the finishing touches to it.

2100
02:08:04,116 --> 02:08:07,476
Speaker 1: There's no rule, there's no rule. It's like, have you

2101
02:08:07,476 --> 02:08:09,956
Speaker 1: ever built an album from the ground up? Like okay,

2102
02:08:10,276 --> 02:08:15,276
Speaker 1: songwriting session less songwriting sessions, But like with the Chili Peppers,

2103
02:08:15,316 --> 02:08:19,116
Speaker 1: I would come to rehearsals pretty early on. We would

2104
02:08:19,116 --> 02:08:22,076
Speaker 1: probably go through. They might they might have written a

2105
02:08:22,236 --> 02:08:24,996
Speaker 1: hundred songs for every album we did, and we would

2106
02:08:24,996 --> 02:08:28,036
Speaker 1: talk about him and narrow him down, and what was

2107
02:08:28,036 --> 02:08:32,516
Speaker 1: it about under the Bridge that attracted you? The way

2108
02:08:32,516 --> 02:08:35,756
Speaker 1: that it happened was just based on the lyric. It

2109
02:08:35,836 --> 02:08:40,876
Speaker 1: was a lyric that I found in Anthony's Book of poetry.

2110
02:08:40,956 --> 02:08:43,276
Speaker 1: And I asked him what song is this and he said,

2111
02:08:43,316 --> 02:08:45,356
Speaker 1: that's not really Chili Pepper song. That's more of a

2112
02:08:45,916 --> 02:08:49,036
Speaker 1: like personal thing, more of a poem. And I said, well,

2113
02:08:49,116 --> 02:08:50,636
Speaker 1: how would you sing it if you were to sing it?

2114
02:08:50,756 --> 02:08:53,116
Speaker 1: And he sang it for him. He's like, he said,

2115
02:08:53,316 --> 02:08:55,396
Speaker 1: it's like it's a ballads not it's not a Chili

2116
02:08:55,396 --> 02:09:01,196
Speaker 1: Peppers thing. And he sang it to me and I said,

2117
02:09:01,356 --> 02:09:06,396
Speaker 1: really beautiful. And people like the Chili Peppers not necessarily

2118
02:09:06,516 --> 02:09:10,356
Speaker 1: because you're a funk band with rap lyrics. People like

2119
02:09:10,396 --> 02:09:13,316
Speaker 1: the Chili Peppers because they like the music you, for

2120
02:09:13,556 --> 02:09:17,876
Speaker 1: guys make And if this is an example of something

2121
02:09:17,996 --> 02:09:22,236
Speaker 1: good that you make, I think I think people will

2122
02:09:22,236 --> 02:09:25,396
Speaker 1: accept that. It's like that's you don't have to put

2123
02:09:25,436 --> 02:09:28,236
Speaker 1: social limitation on what the band is. It's like it's

2124
02:09:28,236 --> 02:09:30,716
Speaker 1: about the band is about the people in it what's

2125
02:09:30,756 --> 02:09:32,756
Speaker 1: so great about the Beatles? If you listen to their

2126
02:09:33,076 --> 02:09:35,116
Speaker 1: early records, in their late records, they don't sound like

2127
02:09:35,156 --> 02:09:38,276
Speaker 1: the same band. And that's just in seven years that arc.

2128
02:09:39,276 --> 02:09:42,796
Speaker 1: Is there an act that you never with the exception

2129
02:09:42,836 --> 02:09:45,356
Speaker 1: of a bill whether and I know the stories of

2130
02:09:45,396 --> 02:09:48,756
Speaker 1: you pursuing them, is there an act that you would

2131
02:09:48,756 --> 02:09:51,196
Speaker 1: have liked to have worked with it? You never got

2132
02:09:51,316 --> 02:09:55,156
Speaker 1: a chance to ave alive or not alive, or disbanded

2133
02:09:55,276 --> 02:09:58,476
Speaker 1: or not disbanded well obviously Beatles or led Zeppelin or

2134
02:09:58,516 --> 02:10:01,596
Speaker 1: any of the great So like, has McCartney ever approached

2135
02:10:01,636 --> 02:10:07,556
Speaker 1: you about producing a record or Fishbone or you know, yeah,

2136
02:10:07,596 --> 02:10:11,036
Speaker 1: I met with McCartney and talked about making something has

2137
02:10:11,156 --> 02:10:14,476
Speaker 1: not yet happened, but you never know. I would be

2138
02:10:15,196 --> 02:10:17,676
Speaker 1: interested to see how that works. What made you settle

2139
02:10:17,756 --> 02:10:20,396
Speaker 1: down into the podcast world? And was it the allure

2140
02:10:20,436 --> 02:10:23,276
Speaker 1: of doing it with Malcolm Gladwell? And was heatlam or

2141
02:10:23,356 --> 02:10:26,116
Speaker 1: like why do you? Why is that now another part

2142
02:10:26,156 --> 02:10:29,196
Speaker 1: of your wait? Can I give a small preface for

2143
02:10:29,316 --> 02:10:33,316
Speaker 1: this question? So I did your very first podcast correct?

2144
02:10:33,836 --> 02:10:36,236
Speaker 1: Was that something like that? One of the one of

2145
02:10:35,796 --> 02:10:37,596
Speaker 1: the one of the first time is like the pilot?

2146
02:10:37,636 --> 02:10:40,916
Speaker 1: But yeah, Mirry're in there, Okay. I literally had no

2147
02:10:40,996 --> 02:10:44,876
Speaker 1: idea what I was walking into because you know, sometimes

2148
02:10:45,156 --> 02:10:49,636
Speaker 1: my business being just a little bit jankie. So I

2149
02:10:49,716 --> 02:10:52,436
Speaker 1: was I was all my way to the studio thinking

2150
02:10:52,636 --> 02:10:56,836
Speaker 1: I was doing a QLs episode because it was the

2151
02:10:56,876 --> 02:11:01,436
Speaker 1: same studio wherever we interviewed Heather Hunter or that jazz

2152
02:11:01,436 --> 02:11:04,796
Speaker 1: studio that Steve recommended. I got there and I was like,

2153
02:11:04,836 --> 02:11:06,956
Speaker 1: oh shit, I'm here to do a QLs episode with

2154
02:11:07,036 --> 02:11:10,756
Speaker 1: Malcolm Gladwell. And then I was like, wait, Where's where's

2155
02:11:10,876 --> 02:11:13,996
Speaker 1: lay and everyone at? And then I was like, wait,

2156
02:11:14,076 --> 02:11:17,116
Speaker 1: Rick Rubin, you're on this episode two? And I just

2157
02:11:17,196 --> 02:11:21,996
Speaker 1: winged it, and about twenty minutes into it, I realized, oh,

2158
02:11:22,436 --> 02:11:25,116
Speaker 1: I'm here. I gotta read my emails better. I'm here

2159
02:11:25,156 --> 02:11:27,356
Speaker 1: to do there. That's the interview you got to prepare for,

2160
02:11:27,516 --> 02:11:29,436
Speaker 1: right in me or like being an interview by at

2161
02:11:29,516 --> 02:11:32,756
Speaker 1: least those two. Sometimes I fly out the seat. You know,

2162
02:11:32,916 --> 02:11:38,036
Speaker 1: we're just freestyling a podcast show and having new clue

2163
02:11:38,316 --> 02:11:41,836
Speaker 1: what I'm there for and just getting lucky. So when

2164
02:11:41,876 --> 02:11:45,356
Speaker 1: I did their episode, I literally went to that building

2165
02:11:46,156 --> 02:11:49,836
Speaker 1: thinking it's a Malcolm Gladwell episode of Quest Love Supreme.

2166
02:11:50,916 --> 02:11:52,796
Speaker 1: And then when I saw Rick Rubin's face on the

2167
02:11:52,796 --> 02:11:55,796
Speaker 1: television thing because he did it by monitor, I was

2168
02:11:55,836 --> 02:11:58,396
Speaker 1: hella confused. I was like, wait a minute, what am

2169
02:11:58,396 --> 02:12:00,596
Speaker 1: I doing here? I had to run in the other

2170
02:12:00,676 --> 02:12:02,396
Speaker 1: room and like call, like, wait, what am I doing?

2171
02:12:03,196 --> 02:12:05,836
Speaker 1: You're doing someone's puck? How did you do it? So,

2172
02:12:07,036 --> 02:12:09,356
Speaker 1: but yeah, we talk about why you even chose to

2173
02:12:09,356 --> 02:12:14,636
Speaker 1: put that into coortunity. Was friendly with Malcolm and I

2174
02:12:14,676 --> 02:12:18,356
Speaker 1: loved his podcast, Revisionist History, and he told me he

2175
02:12:18,396 --> 02:12:21,676
Speaker 1: had an idea to do a new podcast around music

2176
02:12:21,836 --> 02:12:24,596
Speaker 1: and asked if I would be interested in being involved,

2177
02:12:25,076 --> 02:12:28,516
Speaker 1: and I thought, I'm a fan of his work. Be fun.

2178
02:12:28,596 --> 02:12:31,276
Speaker 1: It's like, dude, something with Malcolm I wouldn't have normally.

2179
02:12:32,796 --> 02:12:35,716
Speaker 1: I probably wouldn't have chosen to do a music podcast

2180
02:12:35,796 --> 02:12:38,116
Speaker 1: on my own at that time, just because I feel

2181
02:12:38,116 --> 02:12:39,676
Speaker 1: like talk about music most of the time in my

2182
02:12:39,756 --> 02:12:43,036
Speaker 1: normal life. It's almost like the podcast would be to

2183
02:12:43,116 --> 02:12:45,636
Speaker 1: talk about something else that I'm interested in. I don't

2184
02:12:45,636 --> 02:12:47,356
Speaker 1: even know what that would be like. There are a

2185
02:12:47,396 --> 02:12:49,156
Speaker 1: lot of things, so it's hard to say I never

2186
02:12:49,196 --> 02:12:53,316
Speaker 1: thought about it, but this was more his invitation made

2187
02:12:53,356 --> 02:12:54,956
Speaker 1: it seem like, oh, that'd be fun. I love what

2188
02:12:54,996 --> 02:12:57,756
Speaker 1: he does, so maybe I'll learned something about podcasting doing

2189
02:12:57,796 --> 02:13:00,516
Speaker 1: something with him. Yeah, it seems like y'all don't ever

2190
02:13:00,596 --> 02:13:02,836
Speaker 1: have to worry about guess so I was I was

2191
02:13:02,916 --> 02:13:05,996
Speaker 1: kind of cramming. I was listening Andre episode. I was

2192
02:13:06,076 --> 02:13:10,836
Speaker 1: just about to say, like, yeah, that was like saying,

2193
02:13:10,916 --> 02:13:12,996
Speaker 1: especially when y'all talked about like beyond moments. We were

2194
02:13:13,276 --> 02:13:15,076
Speaker 1: had made a note about that and the moments that

2195
02:13:15,116 --> 02:13:18,116
Speaker 1: are just beyond and you were talking about how just

2196
02:13:18,156 --> 02:13:20,196
Speaker 1: these moments in your life where it's like if you

2197
02:13:20,196 --> 02:13:22,476
Speaker 1: did not do one thing, these other things wouldn't happen,

2198
02:13:22,516 --> 02:13:25,476
Speaker 1: like if you would have stayed in Chicago. Chicago right back,

2199
02:13:25,516 --> 02:13:30,436
Speaker 1: we were listening together. Yeah, yeah, we we have a

2200
02:13:30,476 --> 02:13:34,876
Speaker 1: lot of mutual friends in common. So just hearing of

2201
02:13:34,996 --> 02:13:41,436
Speaker 1: your evolution, your spiritual evolution, your physical evolution. You know,

2202
02:13:41,476 --> 02:13:47,236
Speaker 1: you've been definitely kind of a life goal mission for

2203
02:13:47,316 --> 02:13:49,756
Speaker 1: me at least where you are with your life and everything,

2204
02:13:49,796 --> 02:13:52,876
Speaker 1: Like what's your daily routine and I know like surfing

2205
02:13:52,916 --> 02:13:55,596
Speaker 1: has played a part of it and all that stuff.

2206
02:13:56,116 --> 02:13:58,916
Speaker 1: In Kawai now, I've been doing a ninety minute walk

2207
02:13:59,076 --> 02:14:01,796
Speaker 1: every morning on the beach barefoot, a lot of sun

2208
02:14:02,196 --> 02:14:06,076
Speaker 1: and listening to podcasts that ninety minutes, that's that's where

2209
02:14:06,076 --> 02:14:08,876
Speaker 1: I listened to you. If I listened to one of

2210
02:14:08,876 --> 02:14:10,836
Speaker 1: your pieces, it'll be while I'm walking on the beach.

2211
02:14:11,396 --> 02:14:13,836
Speaker 1: And that's the very first thing every day, and I

2212
02:14:13,876 --> 02:14:15,756
Speaker 1: get that out of the way and then I can

2213
02:14:17,116 --> 02:14:19,156
Speaker 1: start focusing on work or whatever else there is to

2214
02:14:19,196 --> 02:14:21,396
Speaker 1: do for the rest of the day. But I feel

2215
02:14:21,396 --> 02:14:24,316
Speaker 1: like having that right when I wake up, because if

2216
02:14:24,356 --> 02:14:29,236
Speaker 1: I wait, if I wait an hour, I won't do it.

2217
02:14:29,436 --> 02:14:34,556
Speaker 1: Facts that's me. And if I wait an hour, not

2218
02:14:34,636 --> 02:14:38,516
Speaker 1: only will I won't do it, I'll eat. You do something, Yeah,

2219
02:14:38,596 --> 02:14:41,036
Speaker 1: you do some I'll definitely eat because if I'm sitting

2220
02:14:41,036 --> 02:14:43,916
Speaker 1: around and I'm hungry, if I'm walking for ninety minutes,

2221
02:14:43,956 --> 02:14:45,996
Speaker 1: I'm not thinking about food because I'm involved in the

2222
02:14:46,036 --> 02:14:49,756
Speaker 1: podcast or book on tape and I'm walking and enjoying

2223
02:14:49,756 --> 02:14:54,476
Speaker 1: myself and my mind is completely occupied because I'm very

2224
02:14:54,556 --> 02:14:57,476
Speaker 1: you know, I listen to things that I'm interested in

2225
02:14:57,516 --> 02:14:59,876
Speaker 1: and learn stuff, and it's great. I look forward to

2226
02:14:59,876 --> 02:15:01,996
Speaker 1: it every day. I feel like I run out of time,

2227
02:15:02,076 --> 02:15:04,316
Speaker 1: you know, Like I listened in the car on the way,

2228
02:15:04,636 --> 02:15:06,996
Speaker 1: I listen on the beach walk, I listen on the

2229
02:15:06,996 --> 02:15:09,476
Speaker 1: way back and then usually I have stuff to do

2230
02:15:09,676 --> 02:15:12,516
Speaker 1: to start my day and it's like, but I have

2231
02:15:12,636 --> 02:15:14,356
Speaker 1: so much more research to do, I have so many

2232
02:15:14,396 --> 02:15:17,916
Speaker 1: more things to listen to, and I run out of time. Yeah,

2233
02:15:17,956 --> 02:15:20,996
Speaker 1: thats quarantine been like for you? Rick? What is what

2234
02:15:21,196 --> 02:15:24,316
Speaker 1: changes quarantine like? Just kind of how we're in quarantine

2235
02:15:24,356 --> 02:15:26,236
Speaker 1: now and kind of be in lockdown. What is that

2236
02:15:26,556 --> 02:15:29,276
Speaker 1: like for you? It hasn't changed so much other than

2237
02:15:29,316 --> 02:15:31,516
Speaker 1: the fact that we're in Kawaii because normally we wouldn't

2238
02:15:31,516 --> 02:15:33,996
Speaker 1: normally be in Kawhi now, we'd be in Malibu, but

2239
02:15:34,116 --> 02:15:38,796
Speaker 1: because Malibu is locked down, Kawhi is lockdown. Two. We

2240
02:15:38,796 --> 02:15:42,316
Speaker 1: were here in over the holidays and we were going

2241
02:15:42,396 --> 02:15:44,316
Speaker 1: back to start I was going back to start a

2242
02:15:44,316 --> 02:15:48,116
Speaker 1: new Abot Brothers album first week of March, and then

2243
02:15:48,476 --> 02:15:53,956
Speaker 1: I got a call days before saying, hey, stuff's getting sketchy.

2244
02:15:53,996 --> 02:15:56,836
Speaker 1: We're thinking maybe we should just stay home. And it's like, perfect,

2245
02:15:56,956 --> 02:16:00,116
Speaker 1: I'm staying here. You guys stay home. Let's you know,

2246
02:16:00,516 --> 02:16:03,716
Speaker 1: let's wait a minute and figure out what's happening. And

2247
02:16:03,836 --> 02:16:07,276
Speaker 1: that leads us to today. How severe is it in

2248
02:16:07,436 --> 02:16:10,716
Speaker 1: Hawaii right now? As far there are no cases on

2249
02:16:10,716 --> 02:16:15,476
Speaker 1: the island, which is unbelievable this island. There are seven

2250
02:16:15,516 --> 02:16:19,276
Speaker 1: islands of Kawaii. They're you know, half hour flight apart.

2251
02:16:20,236 --> 02:16:23,276
Speaker 1: But this, this one has done. And Kauahi has like

2252
02:16:23,436 --> 02:16:27,836
Speaker 1: a lower population. Yes, it's very few people and they're

2253
02:16:27,876 --> 02:16:31,716
Speaker 1: far apart, and it's a great place to be on quarantine. Again,

2254
02:16:31,876 --> 02:16:34,276
Speaker 1: we if we weren't here, I don't think we would

2255
02:16:34,276 --> 02:16:36,196
Speaker 1: have come here for it. But the fact that we

2256
02:16:36,196 --> 02:16:40,516
Speaker 1: were here and the opportunity arose seemed like a good choice.

2257
02:16:40,596 --> 02:16:45,916
Speaker 1: The universe again was smiling on us. Yet still those uh,

2258
02:16:45,956 --> 02:16:49,676
Speaker 1: those dogs, I saw you once with the dogs with

2259
02:16:49,796 --> 02:16:54,636
Speaker 1: the mop I have won. His name is Chompa. I

2260
02:16:54,716 --> 02:16:59,316
Speaker 1: had two before him named. The current dog's name is Clo.

2261
02:17:00,196 --> 02:17:04,116
Speaker 1: The two prior were Chompa and Monday. Chump and Monday

2262
02:17:04,156 --> 02:17:10,436
Speaker 1: passed away at eighteen nineteen years old. And now Chompa

2263
02:17:10,716 --> 02:17:17,596
Speaker 1: is Monday's brother, brother's son. I think so in the family,

2264
02:17:18,916 --> 02:17:21,156
Speaker 1: and he was probably twelve. Now, it wasn't a pack

2265
02:17:21,196 --> 02:17:23,356
Speaker 1: of them, I could have sworn a seem like a

2266
02:17:23,516 --> 02:17:26,116
Speaker 1: family of them. I hope you before. Now I have

2267
02:17:26,196 --> 02:17:29,076
Speaker 1: one I saw one and then the other one. The

2268
02:17:29,116 --> 02:17:31,996
Speaker 1: other would follow wherever one would go. Okay, I remember

2269
02:17:31,996 --> 02:17:34,676
Speaker 1: that Yeah, I want to know. Man, do you still

2270
02:17:35,036 --> 02:17:39,076
Speaker 1: when you're working out your ideas? Are you like still

2271
02:17:39,236 --> 02:17:41,796
Speaker 1: making tracks or does it start on an instrument? How

2272
02:17:41,836 --> 02:17:43,716
Speaker 1: do you flesh out the ideas that you may have.

2273
02:17:44,476 --> 02:17:46,516
Speaker 1: It really depends. I don't. I don't do it for

2274
02:17:46,556 --> 02:17:48,716
Speaker 1: the sake of doing it. So it's more like if

2275
02:17:48,756 --> 02:17:52,156
Speaker 1: there's a reason to make something, if there's a from

2276
02:17:52,196 --> 02:17:54,156
Speaker 1: working on a project that needs a piece of music

2277
02:17:54,196 --> 02:17:56,396
Speaker 1: that needs to start with me, which I'd prefer not

2278
02:17:56,476 --> 02:18:00,436
Speaker 1: to do. I like, I like collaborating. I like hearing

2279
02:18:00,516 --> 02:18:03,876
Speaker 1: something and finding pieces that I could make into the

2280
02:18:03,876 --> 02:18:06,116
Speaker 1: thing that I want to make, as opposed to starting

2281
02:18:06,116 --> 02:18:08,196
Speaker 1: from scratch. I have to start from scratch, I can,

2282
02:18:08,636 --> 02:18:12,036
Speaker 1: but it's out my favorite thing to do. And if

2283
02:18:12,076 --> 02:18:14,276
Speaker 1: it is, I'll either make a beat on a drum machine,

2284
02:18:14,476 --> 02:18:17,396
Speaker 1: or I'll start with a sample and then build up

2285
02:18:17,396 --> 02:18:20,916
Speaker 1: a track around the sample and then either keep the

2286
02:18:20,956 --> 02:18:25,196
Speaker 1: sample in, remove the sample, mess with the sample. Yeah,

2287
02:18:25,316 --> 02:18:28,396
Speaker 1: are you using like Ableton or like what software? We

2288
02:18:28,476 --> 02:18:31,116
Speaker 1: usually do everything in pro tools, although it's still you know,

2289
02:18:31,196 --> 02:18:33,436
Speaker 1: just still out of you know, I don't know any

2290
02:18:33,476 --> 02:18:35,076
Speaker 1: better and I don't know how to ren pro tools.

2291
02:18:35,196 --> 02:18:37,276
Speaker 1: I don't really I'm not a technical person at all.

2292
02:18:37,756 --> 02:18:39,876
Speaker 1: I just can say I like it, like this, let's

2293
02:18:39,956 --> 02:18:42,876
Speaker 1: change this beat. When you take on a project, do

2294
02:18:42,916 --> 02:18:45,516
Speaker 1: you stay on that project or are you able to

2295
02:18:46,236 --> 02:18:50,036
Speaker 1: hop from project to project? Like Okay, I'm gonna work

2296
02:18:50,036 --> 02:18:52,996
Speaker 1: where Chili Pepper is at the studio on Monday, and

2297
02:18:53,036 --> 02:18:56,516
Speaker 1: then running do the Dixie Chicks next week over there

2298
02:18:56,556 --> 02:18:59,236
Speaker 1: and blah blah blah, like or are you just a

2299
02:19:00,036 --> 02:19:04,076
Speaker 1: I do you? You hire me? And if it's over

2300
02:19:04,156 --> 02:19:07,636
Speaker 1: three months, then we're in trouble, Like how do you

2301
02:19:07,716 --> 02:19:13,236
Speaker 1: schedule the first one? Because it's I don't think it's

2302
02:19:13,276 --> 02:19:17,476
Speaker 1: possible to say we're gonna put three months on hold

2303
02:19:17,516 --> 02:19:19,116
Speaker 1: and in that three months we're gonna make the best

2304
02:19:19,156 --> 02:19:22,196
Speaker 1: album the world has ever heard. I don't. I don't.

2305
02:19:22,316 --> 02:19:24,716
Speaker 1: I don't believe in that. I don't believe it's possible.

2306
02:19:25,036 --> 02:19:27,196
Speaker 1: Maybe some people can do it. I don't know. I

2307
02:19:27,236 --> 02:19:30,396
Speaker 1: don't know how that works. So every project has its

2308
02:19:30,436 --> 02:19:34,316
Speaker 1: own rhythm, and as I said, sometimes it happens very quickly.

2309
02:19:34,756 --> 02:19:38,676
Speaker 1: Sometimes it takes a long time, and I don't I

2310
02:19:38,916 --> 02:19:44,756
Speaker 1: try not to do it as much as possible based

2311
02:19:44,796 --> 02:19:47,556
Speaker 1: on my schedule. It's always about the artist schedule. And

2312
02:19:47,596 --> 02:19:49,596
Speaker 1: when I say the artist schedule, I don't mean the

2313
02:19:49,716 --> 02:19:52,796
Speaker 1: artist schedule of when they want to go on vacation.

2314
02:19:52,916 --> 02:19:58,556
Speaker 1: I mean the artist schedule of when the idea is hot,

2315
02:19:59,036 --> 02:20:03,796
Speaker 1: you know, when the songs are ready. We have to

2316
02:20:03,836 --> 02:20:07,716
Speaker 1: find a way that when the moment is right to

2317
02:20:07,836 --> 02:20:10,916
Speaker 1: make it, that we can make take it. And I

2318
02:20:10,956 --> 02:20:14,156
Speaker 1: can think of very few times in my life where

2319
02:20:14,196 --> 02:20:16,316
Speaker 1: it hasn't worked out where at a time I might

2320
02:20:16,316 --> 02:20:19,716
Speaker 1: have been making five albums at the same time, back

2321
02:20:19,716 --> 02:20:21,156
Speaker 1: in the days when I would have to go from

2322
02:20:21,156 --> 02:20:26,916
Speaker 1: studio to studio. It might be We're doing overdubs with

2323
02:20:26,956 --> 02:20:29,996
Speaker 1: this artist and I'm working on just vocals with another

2324
02:20:30,116 --> 02:20:33,556
Speaker 1: artist on a different album at a at the same time.

2325
02:20:33,596 --> 02:20:37,076
Speaker 1: Maybe I do noon to noon to three with one

2326
02:20:37,196 --> 02:20:40,916
Speaker 1: artist and three to six with another artist that way,

2327
02:20:41,036 --> 02:20:43,436
Speaker 1: or maybe I'm doing pre production with one and working

2328
02:20:43,436 --> 02:20:45,876
Speaker 1: on mixing with another, and it could be as many

2329
02:20:45,876 --> 02:20:48,356
Speaker 1: as four or five or six going on same time.

2330
02:20:48,356 --> 02:20:50,556
Speaker 1: It's not unusual because some of them could go on

2331
02:20:50,676 --> 02:20:56,236
Speaker 1: for years, you know. You I work with engineers, and

2332
02:20:56,436 --> 02:21:00,556
Speaker 1: each project usually I try to have an engineer dedicated

2333
02:21:00,596 --> 02:21:05,396
Speaker 1: to that particular project, like a tag team partner. So

2334
02:21:05,516 --> 02:21:08,596
Speaker 1: and also I like to work like in the old

2335
02:21:08,676 --> 02:21:10,756
Speaker 1: days that you to work all night, drive home as

2336
02:21:10,756 --> 02:21:13,516
Speaker 1: the sun was coming up. Now I'm on an early schedule,

2337
02:21:14,036 --> 02:21:15,836
Speaker 1: so I like to have the sessions start at like

2338
02:21:15,916 --> 02:21:19,556
Speaker 1: noon or one, and I like to be done by six.

2339
02:21:20,036 --> 02:21:22,196
Speaker 1: Now that doesn't mean like on the Strokes album which

2340
02:21:23,236 --> 02:21:26,676
Speaker 1: we just made recently, just came out three weeks ago

2341
02:21:26,756 --> 02:21:33,116
Speaker 1: or something. I would come from noon to six, and

2342
02:21:33,156 --> 02:21:38,036
Speaker 1: then I would leave a list to do list so

2343
02:21:38,076 --> 02:21:40,716
Speaker 1: the band could go on working as late as midnight

2344
02:21:40,756 --> 02:21:42,476
Speaker 1: if they you know, they band could work as long

2345
02:21:42,516 --> 02:21:44,836
Speaker 1: as they want and have a list of things to

2346
02:21:44,876 --> 02:21:47,036
Speaker 1: do in addition to anything that they would want to

2347
02:21:47,036 --> 02:21:49,556
Speaker 1: try on their own. And then the next morning I

2348
02:21:49,596 --> 02:21:51,876
Speaker 1: would come in, we would review what happened the night before,

2349
02:21:51,956 --> 02:21:54,676
Speaker 1: and then we would start on the day's work. I

2350
02:21:54,796 --> 02:21:58,476
Speaker 1: gotta try it, yeah, And I've also, by making a

2351
02:21:58,476 --> 02:22:02,276
Speaker 1: lot of albums, have come to realize when my voice

2352
02:22:02,316 --> 02:22:07,636
Speaker 1: is particularly helpful in the process, and sometimes it's in

2353
02:22:07,676 --> 02:22:10,476
Speaker 1: pre production, it means a lot. In the basic track,

2354
02:22:10,516 --> 02:22:13,236
Speaker 1: it means a lot. Getting the vocals, it means a lot.

2355
02:22:13,836 --> 02:22:19,316
Speaker 1: But many of the other times, during overdubs, during guitar solos,

2356
02:22:20,556 --> 02:22:22,716
Speaker 1: I usually if I trust the artist. I let them

2357
02:22:22,716 --> 02:22:23,996
Speaker 1: do it, and then I might come in, like with

2358
02:22:24,036 --> 02:22:27,236
Speaker 1: Tom Morello, if we're doing on either a rage record

2359
02:22:27,276 --> 02:22:30,716
Speaker 1: or an audio slave record, he'll do solos on everything,

2360
02:22:30,756 --> 02:22:32,516
Speaker 1: and then I might come and say, you know, those

2361
02:22:32,556 --> 02:22:34,596
Speaker 1: are all great and this one's not as good like

2362
02:22:34,676 --> 02:22:38,756
Speaker 1: we gotta and then maybe redo this, or if there's

2363
02:22:38,756 --> 02:22:40,836
Speaker 1: ever ones where it's like, let's work on this one

2364
02:22:40,876 --> 02:22:43,236
Speaker 1: together for some reason. If if you can't crack the

2365
02:22:43,276 --> 02:22:45,636
Speaker 1: code on his own, then we'll do it together. But

2366
02:22:45,796 --> 02:22:48,956
Speaker 1: I don't like to hold an artist's hand. I don't

2367
02:22:49,036 --> 02:22:54,516
Speaker 1: like to. Ultimately, if the artist feels like they've done

2368
02:22:54,556 --> 02:22:59,676
Speaker 1: everything themselves, that's the best feeling for me. Like I

2369
02:22:59,716 --> 02:23:01,756
Speaker 1: don't want I don't want it to I don't want

2370
02:23:01,756 --> 02:23:06,916
Speaker 1: the process to be about me life lessons. I want

2371
02:23:06,916 --> 02:23:10,636
Speaker 1: and only life lessons proving don't make it about you

2372
02:23:10,796 --> 02:23:15,156
Speaker 1: and walk first thing in the morning. I don't want

2373
02:23:15,196 --> 02:23:19,316
Speaker 1: the process to be ugly for you. See that's the

2374
02:23:19,356 --> 02:23:22,916
Speaker 1: one thing because you know who downstairs always says, see

2375
02:23:23,996 --> 02:23:26,076
Speaker 1: walks early in the morning, and you don't do that.

2376
02:23:26,796 --> 02:23:28,596
Speaker 1: So now I'm gonna have to wake my ass up

2377
02:23:28,596 --> 02:23:33,076
Speaker 1: for six and you wake up. Your first thing is

2378
02:23:33,316 --> 02:23:36,396
Speaker 1: doing because I'll create a bunch of excuses I have

2379
02:23:36,516 --> 02:23:39,156
Speaker 1: to get up at six and walk. All right, thank you, Rick.

2380
02:23:39,316 --> 02:23:42,876
Speaker 1: I will now reach my goal of two twenty pounds.

2381
02:23:43,596 --> 02:23:48,556
Speaker 1: I'm gonna walk because Rick said, Because Rick said so. Anyway, Rick, dude,

2382
02:23:48,596 --> 02:23:50,916
Speaker 1: this is this has been what like four years in

2383
02:23:50,956 --> 02:23:58,356
Speaker 1: the making. Yes, exactly today. I have a suggestion quest,

2384
02:23:59,476 --> 02:24:04,276
Speaker 1: which is every day for the next let's make it

2385
02:24:04,956 --> 02:24:09,236
Speaker 1: three weeks. When you go on your walk, just let

2386
02:24:09,316 --> 02:24:11,756
Speaker 1: me a message at the end saying I walked this

2387
02:24:11,796 --> 02:24:15,116
Speaker 1: along today. Just just a little check in, like, hey,

2388
02:24:15,196 --> 02:24:18,476
Speaker 1: did this today? Accountability? I will do so. Yes, just

2389
02:24:18,676 --> 02:24:24,236
Speaker 1: about accountability, partner, I'm about accountability, and I'm about integrity,

2390
02:24:24,396 --> 02:24:29,116
Speaker 1: life coach. Yes, about integrity. Two twenty is right around

2391
02:24:29,156 --> 02:24:31,036
Speaker 1: the bend. I'm ready for this ship than you can

2392
02:24:31,116 --> 02:24:33,156
Speaker 1: send a group text to all of us and we'll go, Yeah,

2393
02:24:33,156 --> 02:24:37,356
Speaker 1: we finished ours too, y'all gonna be a sue all right.

2394
02:24:37,436 --> 02:24:46,836
Speaker 1: So I'm the half of the half of Sugar Steve.

2395
02:24:47,716 --> 02:24:54,796
Speaker 1: I'm paid bill by Fontigolo and be great incomparable, Rick Rubin,

2396
02:24:55,396 --> 02:24:57,836
Speaker 1: four years we've been dying for this. My name is

2397
02:24:57,916 --> 02:25:00,196
Speaker 1: quess Love. This quests Love Supreme. We will see you

2398
02:25:00,236 --> 02:25:19,436
Speaker 1: on the next round. Thank you, of course. Love Supreme

2399
02:25:19,556 --> 02:25:25,276
Speaker 1: is a production i heart Radio. For more podcasts from

2400
02:25:25,276 --> 02:25:29,156
Speaker 1: my heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or

2401
02:25:29,156 --> 02:25:30,796
Speaker 1: wherever you listen to your favorite shows.