Speaker 1: Pushkin. Welcome back to Risky Business, a show about making
Speaker 1: better decisions. I'm Maria Kannakova.
Speaker 2: And I'm Nate Silver. Today will be talking about the
Speaker 2: new president, the forty seventh President, Donald John Trump, who,
Speaker 2: in a funny coincidence, happens to be the exact same
Speaker 2: man who was the forty fifth president of the United States.
Speaker 1: You don't say, wow, hey, I think this is the
Speaker 1: first time I've ever heard you call him with his
Speaker 1: middle name.
Speaker 3: I think this is the like Donald J. Trump.
Speaker 2: But let me tell let's let's start with this, right.
Speaker 2: If you listen to this show, we're too people who
Speaker 2: voted for Kamala Harris. You know, I'm not sure if
Speaker 2: i'd say enthusiastically on my part, but it wasn't.
Speaker 3: I didn't find it that deaf of choice.
Speaker 2: And here we are kind of like laughing in and
Speaker 2: I don't quite sense the mood of like Gallows humor, right,
Speaker 2: but like the rec it feels very different than eight
Speaker 2: years ago. Right, I mean, do you remember kind of
Speaker 2: how you felt in twenty seventeen or twenty sixteen when
Speaker 2: Trump was declared the winner.
Speaker 1: So I definitely remember twenty sixteen because back in twenty sixteen,
Speaker 1: on election night, I was actually doing a live event
Speaker 1: on stage at the Bellhouse in Brooklyn. Slay was doing
Speaker 1: this thing with some of their podcast hosts and I
Speaker 1: was part of the Just podcast. I did a asidement
Speaker 1: called is that Bullshit? So I was on stage commenting
Speaker 1: on this, and the mood in the room just like
Speaker 1: went from like yay, happy to like holy shit, what's
Speaker 1: going on? To the point where I actually left, tapped out,
Speaker 1: went home and said, you know what, you guys can
Speaker 1: can cover this and I will not.
Speaker 2: It's a nice venue, the Bell House, It's very Brooklyn, right,
Speaker 2: and you can imagine the panic in this nice warm
Speaker 2: room that mcainst Sue and Sue is as all the
Speaker 2: returns are going to trim.
Speaker 1: Yep, That's exactly what happened, and I just couldn't take
Speaker 1: it anymore this time around. You know, I think it
Speaker 1: was more expected in a sense, like, of course I
Speaker 1: really wanted Kamala Harris to win, but I was not
Speaker 1: nearly as shocked. I do think in many ways this
Speaker 1: is actually a much more dangerous. It's so funny, right, ironically,
Speaker 1: I think that this is actually a much more dangerous
Speaker 1: moment than the last presidency because and we've talked about
Speaker 1: this on the show before, when you're talking about kind
Speaker 1: of the ability for people to make sweeping changes, we
Speaker 1: have a lot of institutions in place, a lot of guardrails,
Speaker 1: a lot of things that have been weakened, as we've
Speaker 1: talked about over over Trump one point zero. And I
Speaker 1: think that Trump right now is feeling much more empowered,
Speaker 1: much more confident, and has surrounded himself with very different
Speaker 1: people from the first time around. So in some ways,
Speaker 1: I actually think that this is a more dangerous and
Speaker 1: difficult period that we're about to enter. But as you,
Speaker 1: as you correctly point out, like I think all of
Speaker 1: us are exhausted, and how it feels a little different
Speaker 1: in that sense, I'd say it's.
Speaker 2: A higher and here's where I probably show my comparative centrism.
Speaker 2: It's a higher leverage moment, I think, right, And Trump
Speaker 2: seems to sense that, right. He's promising like a new
Speaker 2: I guess that century, but promising like a new era
Speaker 2: of American greatness, which is unambiguously a conservative era, but
Speaker 2: like talking about Americans.
Speaker 1: And technology to William McKinley, right, yeah.
Speaker 2: And talking about hey, you know, maybe that Panama Canal deal.
Speaker 2: You know, maybe we don't like the term so much, right, Yeah,
Speaker 2: but like you know, look, I think the kind of
Speaker 2: old regime, the regime that produced Biden, who Biden. I
Speaker 2: don't know how much you want to talk about Biden.
Speaker 2: Maybe we'll look back around him, but like this kind
Speaker 2: of sclerosis sclerotic regime, like wasn't governing effectively, and I
Speaker 2: think wasn't persuading people effectively. And I don't know, I
Speaker 2: don't think we'll look. You know, there's a chance we
Speaker 2: could look back and say Trump did a lot of
Speaker 2: crazy things and also some things that were okay, right,
Speaker 2: and sometimes the whole point of democracies you have to
Speaker 2: have like sweeping change. I mean, yeah, look, it is different,
Speaker 2: I think, you know, not only so Trump.
Speaker 3: I looked this up.
Speaker 2: Trump had a what are we forty seven seat majority
Speaker 2: in the US House in twenty twenty or twenty sixteen. Rather,
Speaker 2: it is confusing with the skipping the one Trump term,
Speaker 2: which is much larger than he's going to have this year,
Speaker 2: which is just a few seats and vulnerable to retirements
Speaker 2: and cabinet appointments and things like that. Right, he didn't
Speaker 2: win the popular vote this time by a point and
Speaker 2: a half, roughly one point five one point six, which
Speaker 2: you didn't of course in twenty sixteen. But like it does,
Speaker 2: it does feel different. Let me point out like six
Speaker 2: or seven factors here that I think make this feel different.
Speaker 2: And I know if you want to jump in and
Speaker 2: cretins or agree or whatever else. Right, first of all,
Speaker 2: it's much harder we got into this to write this
Speaker 2: off as a fluke. He won the popular vote. You know,
Speaker 2: there's also like no, you know, on the one y
Speaker 2: people are taking it more calmly, but there's no like
Speaker 2: protest activity against Trump instead of surging, you know, subscriptions
Speaker 2: to these liberal newspapers like the Washington Post.
Speaker 3: They have lots of issues.
Speaker 2: Frankly, but like are down MSNBC ratings and I'm sure
Speaker 2: they were good yesterday. Aren't doing that well?
Speaker 3: Right? You know, mom and dad.
Speaker 2: Are fighting the Biden and Harris teams are fighting over
Speaker 2: who's fault. It was mostly Biden's by the way, ninety
Speaker 2: eight ninety eight point nine percent. Biden's no maybe eighty percent, no, no,
Speaker 2: ninety percent, and also like other ten percent of Harris's fault,
Speaker 2: Like it's mostly because you hire the fucking stupid Biden people, right,
Speaker 2: So one hundred percent, it's it's Biden's fault. Right, Never
Speaker 2: hire anybody who worked in the senior Biden administration if
Speaker 2: you want to win a campaign. Again, is my advice. Personally,
Speaker 2: there's this whole intervention from the tech right is a
Speaker 2: term that's sometimes used. It overlaps with my term the river.
Speaker 2: But yeah, you have all these Ola garcs and now
Speaker 2: I'm adopting Biden's term. But you know, I'm not sure
Speaker 2: that's so bad. I mean saying rule by powerful rich people.
Speaker 1: Power, I mean I think I think it's accurate. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so Trump is showing, whether it's good or bad, I
Speaker 1: think it's accurate.
Speaker 2: By young thereon Trump on stage was sitting Elon Musk,
Speaker 2: and next to Elon Musk is who was there? Mark Zuckerberg?
Speaker 3: And you had who else? I mean was there? Right?
Speaker 2: All the rich people Stok CEO of TikTok and Facebook
Speaker 2: is making all these changes, some of which I agree with.
Speaker 2: I think the way that fact checking was being done
Speaker 2: was often politically biased. But like they're getting rid of
Speaker 2: all their DEI initiatives and stuff that often just seems
Speaker 2: like symbolic, right, you know, removing tampons from the men's room.
Speaker 3: Like who cares? Right? Why?
Speaker 2: I mean, why are why are you picking these minor fights?
Speaker 2: But clearly the right and the center when we can
Speaker 2: debate with the center to the center of the center,
Speaker 2: right or whatever else, feels like they have wherewithal to
Speaker 2: do kind of whatever they want right now. Right, the
Speaker 2: referees have been dispreaded, the teachers have left the room, right,
Speaker 2: and it's a recess with no rules in place anymore so.
Speaker 2: And by the way, it's not just the United States.
Speaker 2: We've had a revolt against incumbent parties all around the world.
Speaker 2: You know, I would have to a little more time
Speaker 2: with it to say is it is it mostly against
Speaker 2: liberalism as opposed to whoever happened to be in power.
Speaker 2: But certainly there's like an anti immigrant, anti immigrant tide, right,
Speaker 2: which is the first thing that Trump emphasized, you know,
Speaker 2: that's priority number number one really for Trump is the immigrants.
Speaker 2: And given that executive discression plays a big role in
Speaker 2: immigration policy, kind of an area where he'll be successful
Speaker 2: probably given kind of what he's finding on. And then
Speaker 2: there's all this new stuff he announced initiative today to
Speaker 2: invest a lot in AI, which is very interesting giving
Speaker 2: the politics of Silicon Valley, where Elon Musk is quite
Speaker 2: worried about AI acceleration and risk, whereas other people the
Speaker 2: Mark and Reasons of the world are accelerationists or at
Speaker 2: least accelerationists adjacent. So I've talked a lot, Maria, what
Speaker 2: are you thinking about here?
Speaker 1: Well, I'm thinking about a lot of things, including one way,
Speaker 1: you know, I think that what you were saying about
Speaker 1: kind of the the teachers are out and we're at
Speaker 1: a supervision free recess is actually a really nice way
Speaker 1: of looking at this because last week on the pod
Speaker 1: we talked a lot about the fact that irrational exuberance
Speaker 1: is still alive and well, and I actually think that
Speaker 1: that's kind of a theme in how the types of
Speaker 1: decisions that Trump is making, and how he's thinking about risk,
Speaker 1: and how his kind of the people surrounding him are
Speaker 1: thinking about risk right now, which is infused with this
Speaker 1: irrational exuberance that, oh, we can get away with anything,
Speaker 1: and I think that is prompting some things that are
Speaker 1: clearly overreach, right, like trying to do an executive order
Speaker 1: that gives gets rid of birthright citizenship. You can't do that, right, Like,
Speaker 1: that's just unconstitutional. That is part of the constitution. That
Speaker 1: is going to have to be an amendment process, and
Speaker 1: he and there are actually multiple things I'm not you know,
Speaker 1: I'm not a lawyer. I'm not a constitutional expert. So
Speaker 1: I'm not going to spend the time right now to
Speaker 1: go through every executive order and being like this one's
Speaker 1: going to get challenge, this one's going to get challenge, right, Yeah,
Speaker 1: but there are a lot that are going to get challenged,
Speaker 1: a lot that are just flat out illegal that he
Speaker 1: can't do. And yet he's doing it because some of
Speaker 1: it is kind of theatrics, right and showing that like,
Speaker 1: oh look, I'm not going to be able to be stopped.
Speaker 1: But some of it is also just showing, you know,
Speaker 1: I am the strong guy. I'm the bully, right, I'm
Speaker 1: the one who can just throw all of this at
Speaker 1: you and what are you going to do about it?
Speaker 1: At least in the immediate term. And it's very funny
Speaker 1: that you have someone who's comparing himself to McKinley, you know,
Speaker 1: us history lesson. That's not a president that normally people
Speaker 1: compare themselves to, because that was not necessarily kind of
Speaker 1: the finest moment of American history, but someone who liked
Speaker 1: to take things. And so at the same time, he's saying,
Speaker 1: you know, let's grab the Panama Canal. I'm going to
Speaker 1: rename this is no longer going to be Gulf of Mexico.
Speaker 1: And I deserve the Nobel Peace Prize.
Speaker 2: So all the Canadian provinces are eligible, Greenland, Panama Canal.
Speaker 3: What's your first pick?
Speaker 2: Ontario, British Columbia.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean I think that Ontario is probably it's
Speaker 1: probably a good one, a good first pick.
Speaker 2: Big, it's a big blue state. It's what's gonna be
Speaker 2: like probably twenty six electoral votes or so. That might
Speaker 2: be a mistake. For it might be a mistake.
Speaker 1: But you know, he's not gonna want Quebec because you
Speaker 1: know those are French speakers and you know we don't
Speaker 1: like foreigners around around here. Got to go for the
Speaker 1: nice English speakers. And I think that we just need
Speaker 1: to kind of put this, try to figure out like
Speaker 1: obviously we know where he's coming from, right like, and
Speaker 1: it is this very hubristic like I can just do
Speaker 1: anything right now. But also, as you as you said
Speaker 1: in the beginning, like with the like, what kind of
Speaker 1: shift is this going to be? Will that lead him
Speaker 1: to kind of taking it a little bit too far
Speaker 1: where there will be pushed back because he doesn't have
Speaker 1: the majority that he had before, Right, he doesn't have
Speaker 1: those numbers. Is he going to bring it to the
Speaker 1: point where people, even in the Republican Party are going
Speaker 1: to say enough? So far, we have not seen evidence
Speaker 1: of the fact that this is going to happen. Right,
Speaker 1: It seems like all of his confirmations are going to
Speaker 1: go through, you know, it seems that people are just
Speaker 1: not not caring and they're going along with it for now.
Speaker 1: But what's going to happen, you know, in six months?
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 2: Look, so yeah, that's one important difference is that you
Speaker 2: have these much narrow congressional majorities and in fact, relatively little.
Speaker 2: I was making a list of predictions of like what
Speaker 2: Trump Willer won't do.
Speaker 3: Very little of this.
Speaker 2: Involves passing legislation through Congress in the first place, right,
Speaker 2: very little of it, Right, I mean, they've already passed
Speaker 2: the Republican House some bill to on youth gender participation
Speaker 2: in sports. Right, they can't pass that through the Senate
Speaker 2: anyway without getting a filibuster proof majority. I don't think
Speaker 2: they will. Democrats are unified enough to prevent them getting
Speaker 2: sixty votes, right and so like so like, you know,
Speaker 2: so that'll have to be done by executive order and
Speaker 2: then litigating it in the courts, and the Chief Justice
Speaker 2: Roberts and the other Conservatives will have to decide where
Speaker 2: they draw the line. I think birthright citizenship is one
Speaker 2: place where they probably will, right, or Trump running for
Speaker 2: third term or things like that. I mean, you know, look,
Speaker 2: I'm not a constitutional scholar, but it seems pretty clear
Speaker 2: to me. But like, so, one big difference is that
Speaker 2: we aren't the only ones who were less surprised by
Speaker 2: Trump's win as compared to eight years ago.
Speaker 1: Right.
Speaker 2: I think Trump himself was pretty surprised by twenty sixteen, right,
Speaker 2: And there weren't a lot.
Speaker 3: Of people who.
Speaker 2: Who looked at this piece of real estate the Trump
Speaker 2: twenty sixteen campaign versus trom twenty twenty four campaign and
Speaker 2: began to plant their flags there. Peter Teel was a
Speaker 2: notable except it's been quiet actually in this election.
Speaker 3: Relative. I don't think he was there necessarily.
Speaker 2: But this time people are like, okay, look, Democrats are
Speaker 2: so fucking stupid. They're running Biden again, right, and so
Speaker 2: we might own the presidency, perhaps also the Congress, but
Speaker 2: most importantly the presidency right for four years, and it's
Speaker 2: a powerful executive and Biden I think did little to
Speaker 2: diminish the power of the executive, by the way, and
Speaker 2: so and so, Yeah, let's actually have a fucking plan
Speaker 2: of things that we can actually accomplish, some of which
Speaker 2: are intended as free roles. We would use a poker term, right,
Speaker 2: Like if you were if you want to remove the
Speaker 2: birthright citizenship stuff, right, what's the.
Speaker 3: Chance the court will have pulled that.
Speaker 2: I don't know, I'm guessing ten percent or something, right,
Speaker 2: or maybe there's another ten percent chance of some halfway
Speaker 2: in the door.
Speaker 3: But it doesn't cost you.
Speaker 2: Anything, really, right, you get liberal tiers and liberal outrage
Speaker 2: no matter what you distract them from.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think that the distraction is part of it.
Speaker 1: That's what I'm saying, Like, just try to overwhelm people, right,
Speaker 1: and you throw stuff that is just blatantly unconstitutional in there,
Speaker 1: But then like you're putting out all of these fires,
Speaker 1: and it does prevent you from doing something else. I
Speaker 1: have a question for you, Nate, on another topic that
Speaker 1: we've talked about many times on the show pe Doom.
Speaker 1: So because of what Trump has kind of done with
Speaker 1: AI in his first twenty four hours. So first he
Speaker 1: rescented the executive order that Biden had put into place,
Speaker 1: right that had asked big AI companies to loop in
Speaker 1: the US government, right and to kind of tell them
Speaker 1: be transparent with what they were doing with the technologies,
Speaker 1: et cetera. That no longer has to happen. And because
Speaker 1: he does seem to be on like team Yay, let's go.
Speaker 1: And even though Musk is close with him as of now,
Speaker 1: you know, it seems like Musk is right now more
Speaker 1: trying to placate Trump and stay in a position of
Speaker 1: power than he is necessarily trying to kind of counteract
Speaker 1: him and say no, no, like this isn't good because
Speaker 1: he you know, he didn't say as much as bad
Speaker 1: and I about the electric vehicle stuff either, So it
Speaker 1: seems like he's trying to be kind of on team
Speaker 1: Trump right now. So I think they're My question for
Speaker 1: you is what do we think the p doom probabilities
Speaker 1: from Aire, Like, are there things that he's going to
Speaker 1: do in the next four years? Right in terms of
Speaker 1: of his policies that are going to be much more
Speaker 1: difficult to roll back, much more difficult too to talk about.
Speaker 1: What do you think.
Speaker 2: Look, I mean Elon won this big fight against Trump
Speaker 2: or against MAGA on H one B or whichever visas
Speaker 2: on skilled immigration visas. I guess the kind of narrow
Speaker 2: issue is, Yeah, Look, I think Trump is probably good
Speaker 2: for technology growth in the US relative to Democrats, maybe
Speaker 2: with if tariffs don't interfere with that too much, right,
Speaker 2: But that also probably means.
Speaker 3: That, Yeah, I think I think P doom risk is
Speaker 3: up a little bit.
Speaker 2: And I also wonder whether this is going to polarize
Speaker 2: because actually, if you look at public opinion data, people
Speaker 2: are in the abstract pretty worried about P DOOM. I
Speaker 2: think we maybe overestimate kind of how much the average
Speaker 2: person thinks or knows about this. But but if if
Speaker 2: we reach even I mean Sam Melton's talking about how
Speaker 2: we're going to achieve artificial general intelligence at some point
Speaker 2: in the next three is years or something, right like,
Speaker 2: I imagine this is going to become a pretty big
Speaker 2: campaign issue in twenty twenty eight. And if it polarizes,
Speaker 2: maybe Dems are the parties saying we are the ones
Speaker 2: who have to restrain AI. And like, I think it
Speaker 2: could actually be kind of like a popular message, right,
Speaker 2: I mean, what's the path forward here?
Speaker 3: Right?
Speaker 2: Is it like oligarch versus oligarch or is it oligarch
Speaker 2: versus everyone else? And Democrats have to, like I think
Speaker 2: pick one of those two lanes over a timeframe of
Speaker 2: like of like ten or something years, right, because it
Speaker 2: is absolutely true. And again I don't think these oligarchs
Speaker 2: could go on a case by case basis, right. The
Speaker 2: super rich Silicon Valley people, I don't think they're dumb
Speaker 2: people or bad people necessarily, right, But they have economic interests,
Speaker 2: and they have a philosopher's actually quite predictable in some
Speaker 2: ways and transparent, and they've kind of realized now that
Speaker 2: we have ways to like actuate our interests.
Speaker 3: Right. So there are various questions here, you know.
Speaker 2: One question is whether you know there are a lot
Speaker 2: of Silicon Valley types who are either liberal liberals or
Speaker 2: like classic liberals, right, or just might say, okay, well,
Speaker 2: maybe I want to try to like rekindle this Obama
Speaker 2: era alliance in the Democrat Party with you know, with
Speaker 2: the tech sector where you know, two thousand and eight
Speaker 2: was the Facebook elections supposedly whatever else and all the
Speaker 2: Obama people worked at Facebook and vice versa and things
Speaker 2: like that. You know, but you kind of have to
Speaker 2: pick one, right, if you're Democrats, you should either be
Speaker 2: criticizing the oligarchs and AI by twenty twenty eight will
Speaker 2: become a tangible issue there in which public opinion might
Speaker 2: be on your side.
Speaker 3: Maybe climate.
Speaker 2: I think it's a little more complicated, right, but because
Speaker 2: they tend to be a little bit more sensitive to
Speaker 2: climate change. Or do you want to like draft your
Speaker 2: own Mark Cuban or dissident or like who knows how
Speaker 2: long Elon's relationship with Trump will will last? Right, maybe
Speaker 2: Steve Bannon wins that fight eventually. Vivic Ramaswami has already
Speaker 2: been ousted from STOG.
Speaker 1: That was fast.
Speaker 2: Well, he made this very cringe tweet about how like
Speaker 2: you got to pull you know what was his reference,
Speaker 2: like saved by the bell and how nerds don't get
Speaker 2: enough respect and like yeah, it's like never heard from again.
Speaker 2: He made he's running for governor of Ohio, so maybe
Speaker 2: he'll governor of Ohio. I think you may never be
Speaker 2: heard from again. It was just such a cringey tweet,
Speaker 2: right that even Elon was like, bro, it's too much.
Speaker 3: But Democrats have to like pick a lane.
Speaker 2: And I think the stuff about the fact that there
Speaker 2: is this concentration of wealth and power is like, is
Speaker 2: quite it's true, right, I mean, it's a it's true that,
Speaker 2: like and again I'm a fucking neoliberal capitalist, right, but
Speaker 2: it is true that that more and more wealth and
Speaker 2: power is being concentrated in fewer and fewer hands, especially
Speaker 2: at the very very very very very top end.
Speaker 3: Right.
Speaker 2: The ten most, literally the ten most are twenty richest
Speaker 2: and most powerful people in the world, and they're increasingly
Speaker 2: actuating their political interests, right, Like, I think that line
Speaker 2: of critique is more promising electorally and fresher and maybe
Speaker 2: truer than just calling Trump a fascist.
Speaker 3: Right.
Speaker 2: If that didn't work that, I mean Joe Biden thought, oh,
Speaker 2: January sixth was so bad, We'll just have to I
Speaker 2: don't know what voice I'm doing here, but like, but
Speaker 2: that just screaming democracy, democracy, democracy, right, Like, that didn't work.
Speaker 2: People are sick and tired of that. And the fact
Speaker 2: is that the democratic system delivered a verdict that people
Speaker 2: are sick and tired of these candidates Democrats are nominating,
Speaker 2: and Democrats can rebound for that system, and I think
Speaker 2: they probably will in twenty twenty six, I think there
Speaker 2: could be a bad mid term for Trump. This global
Speaker 2: anti incumbent mood could easily come back around to bite him.
Speaker 2: You know, I think is kind of like the efficacy
Speaker 2: of governance, right, Like, you know, Democrats are the expert
Speaker 2: class and and fucked lots of things up, right, It
Speaker 2: doesn't mean to me that like the non expert diletant
Speaker 2: class is going to do any better necessarily, right, Like
Speaker 2: maybe on every third maybe one out of three things, yes, right,
Speaker 2: maybe four out of ten things? Right, that still us
Speaker 2: there are six out of ten things that might break
Speaker 2: and might break badly. The pandemic happened under Trump's watch,
Speaker 2: you know, though I think he deserves more credit for
Speaker 2: like Operation Warp Speed and the first stimulus package. You know, Look,
Speaker 2: if you look at American history, there are big catastrophic
Speaker 2: fuck ups and that's what produced just back, particularly in
Speaker 2: a liberal direction.
Speaker 3: Right, So the Iraq War was one of.
Speaker 2: Those, plus the financial crisis that produces a huge shift
Speaker 2: toward a guy named Brockosine. Obama becoming president for two terms.
Speaker 1: And we'll be back right after this. This start of
Speaker 1: Trump two point zero, we're in a very very different
Speaker 1: place economically politically than we were in Trump one point zero, right,
Speaker 1: So we have the inflation and kind of recessionary kind
Speaker 1: of things and high interest rates that we didn't have
Speaker 1: back when he assumed power. The economy that he's inheriting
Speaker 1: is in much worse shape. And as you saw by
Speaker 1: the way he didn't immediately like say tariffs, tariffs, tariffs,
Speaker 1: even though he said, now Mexico and Canada, if you're leading,
Speaker 1: you're letting immigrants into our countries, I'm going to put
Speaker 1: tariffs on you, and I will. You know, I'll see
Speaker 1: what else happens. But it will be very interesting to
Speaker 1: see because one of his promises was, oh, you know,
Speaker 1: will we'll make everyone more prosperous, and we're going to
Speaker 1: do all of these different things. But that might actually
Speaker 1: be a moment where as we've talked about before, incumbents
Speaker 1: have been blamed for kind of this global economic malaise.
Speaker 1: But he's going to be the incumbent. And unless you know,
Speaker 1: it really depends on what we see in the next
Speaker 1: four years in terms of economic policies in terms of
Speaker 1: how the average person feels when they go shopping. So
Speaker 1: I just want to kind of make sure that that
Speaker 1: we understand that as we as we look at the
Speaker 1: next four years. But I do completely agree with you
Speaker 1: that I actually think it's much more promising and very
Speaker 1: accurate for the Democrats to attack the oligarchical shift in
Speaker 1: the in the US government, because it is I wouldn't
Speaker 1: say it's unprecedented, but it's unprecedented in modern times, and
Speaker 1: it is very eyebrow raising when you see kind of
Speaker 1: who you know, who is in, who is next, who
Speaker 1: is at Trump's side as we kind of enter this
Speaker 1: era and think through the implications of that for the
Speaker 1: common person, right for your just like normal voter who
Speaker 1: just wants to live a normal life. And I don't
Speaker 1: think that people have necessarily thought that through, but I
Speaker 1: think it will be if Democrats can seize upon it.
Speaker 1: I think it could be a way to differentiate and
Speaker 1: get people actually excited. Because, by the way, even if
Speaker 1: a lot of what Trump has done is fascist, and
Speaker 1: you know, we don't have to go into it, but
Speaker 1: we have the Hile Hitler salute form Elon Musk controversy.
Speaker 1: But as you said, that hasn't worked.
Speaker 2: No, it hasn't worked, and it's because it's fucking stupid, right, Like,
Speaker 2: out of all these things, I mean, how many executive
Speaker 2: orders did Trump issue in the past twenty four I
Speaker 2: guess twenty six hours and we're taping this a lot,
Speaker 2: Like you know, he repealed the Biden Ai executive I mean,
Speaker 2: like focus on shit that, like, I mean, don't repeat
Speaker 2: the mistakes of like of eight years ago.
Speaker 3: The thing that wasn't a mistake.
Speaker 2: I mean, you have like the women's markets in like
Speaker 2: organized opposition, Like that seems to be like something you
Speaker 2: should do anytime you're the opposition party. I'm like, who's
Speaker 2: in charge of the Democratic Party right now? I mean,
Speaker 2: you know who's the leader of the Democratic Party right now?
Speaker 2: Right Barack Obama?
Speaker 3: I guess kind of.
Speaker 1: Beats me.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean it requires.
Speaker 2: I mean, the Trump people spent more time strategizing for
Speaker 2: this moment, and I guess that makes it easier when
Speaker 2: you know it's Trump's player the highway and the GOP
Speaker 2: right where there's no no kind of equivalent figure in
Speaker 2: the Democratic Party. But like, look, ordinarily there would be
Speaker 2: a strong case for for mean reversion, meaning there are
Speaker 2: all these ways from the effectiveness of governance to overreach.
Speaker 2: I mean, we talked a little bit about kind of
Speaker 2: like pent up recess ladies away for a few minutes,
Speaker 2: kind of frustration.
Speaker 3: I think there might only be.
Speaker 2: So much tolerance for beating up on immigrants and trans
Speaker 2: people and kind of once the needle moves on some
Speaker 2: of these issues, then like then it will become kind
Speaker 2: of gross and like tiresome and things like that. Right,
Speaker 2: I think there might be a limited tolerance for that
Speaker 2: with some corrections of like free speech and the fucking misinformation.
Speaker 3: People, right, like fuck them.
Speaker 2: But like I think, you know, I don't think America
Speaker 2: went and we moved back to the nineteen fifties or
Speaker 2: something when it comes to how we view sexuality and
Speaker 2: gender and things like that.
Speaker 3: Right, But.
Speaker 2: You think there might be some mean reversion between like
Speaker 2: the fact that Democrats are competitive and all these elections, Right,
Speaker 2: No Democrats lost a popular vote by more than two
Speaker 2: and a half points since nineteen eighty eight, Right, so
Speaker 2: every year that's been a you know, within a field goal,
Speaker 2: and they've lost some of those, and one some of
Speaker 2: those Democrats will probably take over the Senate, excuse me,
Speaker 2: the House, probably not the Senate. In twenty twenty six,
Speaker 2: they own a lot of these governorships.
Speaker 3: They have.
Speaker 2: A bench of younger governors who were all better than
Speaker 2: the last three people they nominated for president. Frankly and yeah,
Speaker 2: and now if you have this continuous anti incumbent sentiment,
Speaker 2: then that benefits Democrats in twenty twenty or twenty God
Speaker 2: damn it so confusing, so many years twenty eight.
Speaker 1: I know, I know everyone's timeline is fucked up, But like, I.
Speaker 2: Look, if you have work, hey, let's let's run back
Speaker 2: the playbook, but nominate a better candy at the Kamala Harris,
Speaker 2: and this time, inflation and the fuck ups of the
Speaker 2: White House help us and not hurt us.
Speaker 3: I mean, there's.
Speaker 2: A fifty to fifty chance that works, maybe better than
Speaker 2: fifty to fifty. But I don't know if that actually
Speaker 2: kind of like wins the culture war or the political
Speaker 2: war in the long run.
Speaker 1: Really well, I think that the pendulum shift is an
Speaker 1: interesting way of looking at it because to go back
Speaker 1: to kind of where we started the show, which is
Speaker 1: kind of part of this irrational exuberance that that Trump
Speaker 1: is exhibiting. He may push things too far, even with
Speaker 1: the tech stuff like we saw, you know, he has
Speaker 1: in the last week, we've seen the launch of a
Speaker 1: Trump meme coin and a Milania meme coin, and even
Speaker 1: the crypto community is like, dude, right, like, what is
Speaker 1: going on here? This is not a good look. This
Speaker 1: looks like very scammy, icky type of thing. And rather
Speaker 1: than being like yeah, you know, you go, they're like, wait,
Speaker 1: hold on a second, right, like this might be a
Speaker 1: step too far. And these were some of his biggest supporters.
Speaker 1: And so if he keeps kind of doing things like this,
Speaker 1: if he keeps attacking immigrants the way he has and
Speaker 1: attacking you know, transgender like oh there are only men
Speaker 1: and women, all of these things where he's really just
Speaker 1: pushing it way too far, including things that you mentioned
Speaker 1: like oh, no more tampons in the Facebook bathroom, which like,
Speaker 1: no matter who you are, you're like what the fuck? Right, Like,
Speaker 1: what in the world are we been talking about? Right?
Speaker 1: I do think that maybe then people will start finally reacting.
Speaker 1: Maybe not right, I'm choosing to believe that humanity will
Speaker 1: react against.
Speaker 2: I mean, you did have a lot of under the
Speaker 2: Democratic presidents, but actually more under Biden than Obama. Right,
Speaker 2: you did have a lot of like officials government spaces
Speaker 2: and corporate spaces. Because Silicon Valley we had thought of
Speaker 2: as being quite left wing. I think it never really was.
Speaker 2: We can talk about that, right, but you did have
Speaker 2: a lot of kind of policy changes that people felt
Speaker 2: like were superimposed on them. And then what further than
Speaker 2: public opinion might right, usually you think that like, you know,
Speaker 2: corporate institutions are more centrist, but you know, on a
Speaker 2: lot of these issues, and they were pretty far to
Speaker 2: the left during the latter years the Biden term, And
Speaker 2: so I think I think the GOP has a little
Speaker 2: bit more mileage and usual of that because you're kind
Speaker 2: of rolling back from a point where like it was
Speaker 2: not reflecting public opinion to begin with. But like, at
Speaker 2: the same time, though, I mean, look at so why
Speaker 2: did Biden fail? And there are a few themes here.
Speaker 2: I have another article about this. What is he was
Speaker 2: seventy eight years old. Trump is seventy eight years old
Speaker 2: at the start of his second term. You know, unlike
Speaker 2: fortunately for Trump, he can't run for a third term
Speaker 2: unless he tries to get the constitution changed, and so
Speaker 2: and so there's not that temptation, right, but like, but
Speaker 2: you know, you have issues of like performance and cognitive
Speaker 2: fitness that I think are valid to ask of any
Speaker 2: seventy eight years old too. Biden thinks he has this big,
Speaker 2: sweeping mandate, and he does win a majority of vot
Speaker 2: which Trump didn't in a wider popular vote margin about
Speaker 2: the same electoral college. But it was kind of conditional, right.
Speaker 2: It was kind of like, oh, the last guy really
Speaker 2: fucked up, especially in COVID, and so he kind of
Speaker 2: over reached and overread that mandate. And three he was
Speaker 2: kind of like bogged down by lots of policy commitments
Speaker 2: to groups who were acting in their own interests and
Speaker 2: not in the long term interest of the country or
Speaker 2: a Biden's party.
Speaker 3: Right.
Speaker 2: Just last week, Biden claimed that we have a new
Speaker 2: twenty eighth amendment, right, this equal rights amendment, which was
Speaker 2: simple amendment that just kind of said, okay, we're supposally
Speaker 2: saying that women are equal to men, right, I don't
Speaker 2: know the exact terminology, I mean basically just asserted, and
Speaker 2: Kamala Harris's account asserted that, oh, now it's the law
Speaker 2: of the land, when it very much isn't.
Speaker 1: Right.
Speaker 2: You'd have to go through a whole process with the
Speaker 2: constitutional archivists to do this. Right, Congress in the nineteen
Speaker 2: seventies I think, approved this era amendment. Then it went
Speaker 2: to the states to ratify, and they sent a seven
Speaker 2: year timeframe saying you have to have thirty seven I
Speaker 2: think three quarters states, it is it thirty eighth then
Speaker 2: ratify this within yeah, thirty seven and a half. Right,
Speaker 2: So thirty eight thirty eight states must ratify this, and
Speaker 2: I believe seven years, and they didn't get there. It
Speaker 2: was like thirty six or something, right. A couple of
Speaker 2: saints then rescinded their approval of it. Right, But then
Speaker 2: later like Nevada and Virginia, like in the past five years,
Speaker 2: approved this and so and so it's a radical judicial
Speaker 2: overreach argument that, oh, well, actually this thing that Congress
Speaker 2: put in the law that's overridden by other provisions of
Speaker 2: the Constitution. Oh and by the way, by the way,
Speaker 2: the fact that five or six states rescinded this, just
Speaker 2: ignore that too, right, But this is something that like
Speaker 2: you know, I would say, radical left groups that have
Speaker 2: a different interpretation of the Constitution, we're pushing Biden to do.
Speaker 3: And so it just looks fucking stupid your last week.
Speaker 2: In office, right, you're like doing this, making this fake
Speaker 2: amendment up and then pardoning your family.
Speaker 3: I mean, what are what are we doing? Right?
Speaker 2: Anyway, I'm on a on a Biden rant. But the
Speaker 2: point is that like the overreach of like an old
Speaker 2: president who has a lot of people who are pushing
Speaker 2: for things and pulley for things in this limited.
Speaker 3: Amount of bandwidth.
Speaker 2: And and you know, and I watched Biden's speech from
Speaker 2: four years ago, and like Trump kind of thought he
Speaker 2: was this or Biden thought he was a savior.
Speaker 3: Right, Oh, I've been this difficult time.
Speaker 2: But I'll deliver justice from systemic racism on top of
Speaker 2: solving the COVID pandemic and the economy, right and climate change.
Speaker 3: I'm going to sell it, all right.
Speaker 2: And Trump says the same thing, and he's like, well,
Speaker 2: God saved me from that assassin's bullet. I was put
Speaker 2: here for a reason. And then like and like, I
Speaker 2: don't know, neither man is very introspective.
Speaker 1: I would say, I want to clip your last thirty
Speaker 1: seconds and then run it. If risky business still exists
Speaker 1: in four years, which I hope it does, run it.
Speaker 1: At the end of the Trump presidency because what you
Speaker 1: just said basically could be exactly like word for word.
Speaker 1: You know how Trump is acting right now, seventy eight
Speaker 1: year old man thinks he has you know, this mandate
Speaker 1: is going to be overreaching and doing all of these things.
Speaker 1: And I really want to see kind of how we'll
Speaker 1: be able to cut and paste that. And I mean
Speaker 1: I hope we will in the sense that I hope
Speaker 1: that he doesn't manage to be kind of more effective
Speaker 1: in some respects, if that makes sense. The courts are
Speaker 1: something we've talked about a lot on the show, haven't
Speaker 1: talked about today, don't need to talk about much today,
Speaker 1: but that is something that has changed in the last
Speaker 1: eight years.
Speaker 2: Can you make a request of like the internet or
Speaker 2: not the internet of the media?
Speaker 3: Right?
Speaker 2: I would love to have a people I can rely
Speaker 2: on for Supreme Court analysis that I think are looking
Speaker 2: at it from like an arm's length point of view,
Speaker 2: because what tends to happen is a lot of you
Speaker 2: know area, and they always think that like everything is
Speaker 2: going to be ruled in a conservative direction. When as
Speaker 2: a five to four court it showed, you know, it
Speaker 2: legalized gay marriage, which by the way, is probably not
Speaker 2: vulnerable because it was also legalized by by statute. There
Speaker 2: are some things that so you know, as I've been
Speaker 2: researching this, so NATO, Congress passed a law saying the
Speaker 2: president can't pull out of NATO. Trump can and maybe
Speaker 2: will try. But like that goes to litigation. But like
Speaker 2: I would, I would I want more court analysis from
Speaker 2: people who isn't who aren't super blue pilled and can
Speaker 2: be quote unquote objective both about the law and about
Speaker 2: kind of just how the court empirically behaves. I do
Speaker 2: think the court will see it. I mean, look, if
Speaker 2: it says, oh, there's some end around to birthright citizenship,
Speaker 2: I mean that would be I think a very bad
Speaker 2: sign because then it means there's like not really any restraint.
Speaker 2: My priors are that you're going to have some a
Speaker 2: fair amount of restraint. But I would love to read
Speaker 2: I would love to have more go to sources on that.
Speaker 1: So what I By the way, eighteen states while we've
Speaker 1: been taping, have already sued to and to challenge the
Speaker 1: Birthright Citizenship Executive Order, so that has already entered into
Speaker 1: the legal system. We always knew that was going to
Speaker 1: be the first thing right that was going to be challenged,
Speaker 1: but so we are already we're seeing some of it.
Speaker 1: And yes, I think that if the Supreme Court, by
Speaker 1: the way, rules that there's a way around this, then
Speaker 1: that's just going to kind of confirm everyone, including mine
Speaker 1: worse fears that like this is just a complete sham, right,
Speaker 1: So let's hope that they don't. But the legal system
Speaker 1: has changed a lot in the last eight years, and
Speaker 1: that is one of the guardrails that has become shaped. Ye,
Speaker 1: So you know, it's it's interesting that you obviously that
Speaker 1: that you're pointing out that, well, gay marriage is protected,
Speaker 1: but they're you know, there's no guarantee that things like
Speaker 1: that will remain protected if we start going down the
Speaker 1: slope of like let's get rid of all of these
Speaker 1: rights that that have been protected for a while. So
Speaker 1: I hope it it remains protected, but it's one of
Speaker 1: these things where you know, I think we all have
Speaker 1: to be on alert.
Speaker 2: I guess part of what I'd say is like, I
Speaker 2: you don't need slippery slope arguments because a people aren't
Speaker 2: persuaded by them and be like, there's so much shit
Speaker 2: happening right now, right and this is like yeah, I
Speaker 2: mean this is, you know, because it's not going to
Speaker 2: be a legislative driven presidency unless unless somehow Trump wins
Speaker 2: more seeds at the midterms, which is pretty rare. The
Speaker 2: big fights are happening right now. Right now is important
Speaker 2: a moment as you'll ever have in the Trump administration
Speaker 2: because it doesn't take time to build up a coalition
Speaker 2: and things like that. He's acting as like a unitary executive.
Speaker 2: It's probably some term that legal terms. So he's acting
Speaker 2: is like a strong president right through executive order and
Speaker 2: so and so. Look, I mean, look, you're also an environment.
Speaker 2: People have incentives. I mean, I'm sure that the elon
Speaker 2: making the some person called it it's an Italian salute,
Speaker 2: you know, I know, I mean, probably a bad look,
Speaker 2: but like don't don't waste bam with cycles on that.
Speaker 2: But like I'm also sure that like alarmist Roman salute,
Speaker 2: our producers are saying, hey, look just a Roman salute.
Speaker 2: But like focus, but the incentives are not the focus.
Speaker 2: The incentives are for your X feed or your blue
Speaker 2: sky or your or your substack or whatever else.
Speaker 1: The incentives are for outrage media, right, and I think
Speaker 1: that we like we need to band together and instead
Speaker 1: of the outrage media. As you said, focus try to
Speaker 1: figure out what what what can what's happening, like, what
Speaker 1: are the fights? How do you like make a logical argument,
Speaker 1: and how do you kind of how do you what
Speaker 1: do you do about it? As opposed to get outraged
Speaker 1: at every one of these little things. Because Trump is
Speaker 1: going to win that fight. Trump is incredibly good at
Speaker 1: getting outrage media on his side, and right now he
Speaker 1: has Musk on his side and must controls X, so
Speaker 1: he is very good at kind of that thing that's
Speaker 1: his forte right, the social media kind of outrage type
Speaker 1: of thing. So I think not falling for that and
Speaker 1: to remain focused, as in my mind, one of the
Speaker 1: best things that we can do is how we allocate
Speaker 1: our attention and then how we allocate our resources as
Speaker 1: opposed to just you know, getting getting distracted and going
Speaker 1: all over the place, which is what he wants us
Speaker 1: to do. So let's let's you know, I think this
Speaker 1: is like a good battle tactic from from the old
Speaker 1: grades of you know, Sun Sioux and Klauswitz and all
Speaker 1: of the battle tacticians that I read, you know, way
Speaker 1: way back when don't when the enemy tries to distract
Speaker 1: you don't. Don't fall for right, figure it out, get
Speaker 1: focused and have a good plan of attack yourself. Don't
Speaker 1: let them set the rules. Figure out how to set
Speaker 1: the rules yourself.
Speaker 2: You know, I don't even see it as a we
Speaker 2: or that, you know, I you know, I see myself
Speaker 2: as like an intellectual free agent. I think I'm never
Speaker 2: going to become to Trump per se. But like, look,
Speaker 2: I like the pro growth stuff and the free speech
Speaker 2: stuff and some of it right and so like, And
Speaker 2: I don't think democratic The Democratic Party has offered very
Speaker 2: strong leadership over the past couple of cycles, necessarily, and
Speaker 2: so you know, I see we as like an American suggestion.
Speaker 1: I'm saying, we as like protecting the American people.
Speaker 2: You know, what should be the twenty eighth Amendment. What
Speaker 2: is is an amendment limiting presidential pardon power at the
Speaker 2: very least to like self pardons and the family and
Speaker 2: things like that. Right, we need amendment to the Constitution
Speaker 2: to prevent presidential pardon powers from being abused.
Speaker 1: I agree with you that presidential partners pardons are being
Speaker 1: misused right now. I don't know that that's our number
Speaker 1: one amendment priory, but I but your point, But your
Speaker 1: point is taken, and I do think that it's been
Speaker 1: you know, it's a little bit ridiculous, this kind of
Speaker 1: tit for tat type of presidential partons that we've that
Speaker 1: we've seen in the last forty eight hours. And yeah,
Speaker 1: well we'll just we'll see who. Let's uh, I think
Speaker 1: that we can go back to end with our like
Speaker 1: little kids on the playground or recess analogy. Let's see
Speaker 1: who who can become adult more quickly? Right, Like, who's
Speaker 1: going to be able to emerge from this and stop
Speaker 1: finger pointing and doing silly stuff and getting distracted and
Speaker 1: like get their shit together and actually think through the
Speaker 1: future of the country in a mature way. This is
Speaker 1: a challenge to both Republicans and Democrats. I think this
Speaker 1: is a challenge too, to our entire government, and I
Speaker 1: hope that they rise up to the challenge.
Speaker 2: We'll be right back after this message.
Speaker 1: This week, we're going to answer a listener question why
Speaker 1: don't Nate and I have a driver's license?
Speaker 2: Which, by the way, the listener is wrong about one
Speaker 2: of those two people.
Speaker 1: This is true. We have a question from Kenny in Detroit,
Speaker 1: and the question is, why the hell do neither of
Speaker 1: you have a driver's license, Kenny, I now have a
Speaker 1: driver's license. I have after Yeah, I've driven, Nate has
Speaker 1: driven with me, and I did not crash us. Right,
Speaker 1: I did a good job. I took driving lessons after
Speaker 1: I moved to Nevada. You need to have a driver's
Speaker 1: license and know how to drive. So I took lessons
Speaker 1: and I am now the proud possessor of driving skills.
Speaker 1: Before that, I did not have a life license because
Speaker 1: I've always lived in the city. Right as an adult,
Speaker 1: I've lived in New York and my entire adult life.
Speaker 1: And you do not need a driver's license. You do
Speaker 1: not need a car. It's very hard to have a
Speaker 1: car in New York. We talked last week about congestion pricing,
Speaker 1: but even before that, you know, parking is a pain
Speaker 1: in the ass. Driving is a pain in the ass.
Speaker 1: And I grew up in Boston, and I think Boston,
Speaker 1: a lot of people will say is the worst city
Speaker 1: in the country to drive, because Boston drivers are very aggressive,
Speaker 1: very unpredictable, and Boston streets are horrific. So I'm also
Speaker 1: the youngest of four kids, so people always drove me
Speaker 1: around and I skipped a few grades in school, skipped
Speaker 1: one grade, but was young to begin with. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: so I couldn't get a license until after I graduated,
Speaker 1: and by that point I went to college.
Speaker 3: Our producer is asking if you drive like a Bostonian.
Speaker 1: Yeah, no, I do not drive like a boston question
Speaker 1: you were to.
Speaker 3: Me, Maria.
Speaker 2: No, I didn't notice any any I thought. I thought
Speaker 2: Maria drove pretty well. I think we got lost in
Speaker 2: the casino parking lot and mid mixing this up, but
Speaker 2: like maybe it was with someone else.
Speaker 3: It's confusing, though.
Speaker 2: Those casino parking lots are you go around in circles
Speaker 2: and they change it.
Speaker 3: But the driving itself seem seemed good.
Speaker 1: I appreciate that. No, that was with me. I drove
Speaker 1: us in circles a few times, but then I got
Speaker 1: us out of there. I hate casino parking lots. They're
Speaker 1: designed like casinos. Casino design is meant for you to
Speaker 1: get lost in there, so that you, you know, end up
Speaker 1: having to walk past all the different machines and like
Speaker 1: you just get if you look at the old casinos
Speaker 1: right like a Caesar's, you just your sense of orientation
Speaker 1: goes out the window. It changed Steve Woyn actually changed
Speaker 1: the design elements and it's much more pleasant and open,
Speaker 1: and you don't get lost like at an Encore the
Speaker 1: way that you do at Caesar's. But I feel like
Speaker 1: casino parking lots were designed by the same principle, like
Speaker 1: how the fuck do you get out of there? And
Speaker 1: it's impossible some times to figure out, like where the
Speaker 1: exit is, where the exit is not, and you find
Speaker 1: yourself going in circles. And I just want to say,
Speaker 1: there are no slot machines in the in the garage.
Speaker 3: Just make it easy. Don't want to solve that problem.
Speaker 1: But nay, Yeah, you're a New Yorker, so so I
Speaker 1: think that that answer is why you don't have a license.
Speaker 1: But you didn't grow up in New York.
Speaker 2: Well I wasn't originally, I grew up in Michigan. I
Speaker 2: grew up in Michigan the automotive state. The short ish
Speaker 2: version is like I was kind of a klutzy kid.
Speaker 2: I failed my initial driving test. I then got I
Speaker 2: didn't pass nate, I didn't know that I'm more coordinated
Speaker 2: now than I used to be, then passed uh. I
Speaker 2: then got However, I took a class at like Seers God,
Speaker 2: I'm fucking old, right, and got a permit and my
Speaker 2: dad was like, but you gotta drive another fifty hours
Speaker 2: with me before I sign off on the license and
Speaker 2: then and then I do some of that, but then
Speaker 2: I go to college in Chicago and then and I've
Speaker 2: lived in Chicago when in New York my whole life
Speaker 2: since then. So and my partner drives. We do you
Speaker 2: have a car? So it just kind of isn't like,
Speaker 2: hasn't quite been worth the investment, but it'd be fun.
Speaker 2: It'd be fun to like, yeah, I know pretty people wrong,
Speaker 2: I know, but I feel like, would I be a driver?
Speaker 3: Probably not. I vary.
Speaker 1: I think, well, yeah, well we'll we'll just we'll see
Speaker 1: in a few years whether you've learned how to drive
Speaker 1: or not. I'm glad I now know how to drive.
Speaker 1: But it was really really nice. I'll end on this.
Speaker 1: It's really nice not being able to drive because no
Speaker 1: one can ask you to do shit, right, Like you
Speaker 1: can't run errands and you can't pick people up and
Speaker 1: you can't do anything like that because you're like, sorry,
Speaker 1: I don't know how to drive. But now that excuse
Speaker 1: no longer applies. So there was part of me that
Speaker 1: actually really liked the facts that no one could ever
Speaker 1: ask me to run any related errands.
Speaker 2: No, it is interesting, right, you don't want to give
Speaker 2: people the option. I'm trying to think of some is
Speaker 2: there some name like burning your bridges? There's gotta be
Speaker 2: some other more updated feeling heuristic, right, but like denying
Speaker 2: people the option?
Speaker 3: Right?
Speaker 1: Yeah, yep, I think I think that's good. So yes,
Speaker 1: that that is the answer to your question. Kenny from
Speaker 1: Detroit and so far I have Christine driving record knock
Speaker 1: on wood. Let us know what you think of the show.
Speaker 1: Reach out to us at Risky Business at pushkin dot Fm.
Speaker 1: Risky Business is hosted by me Maria Kannikova and by
Speaker 1: me Nate Silver. The show is a co production of
Speaker 1: Pushkin Industries and iHeartMedia. This episode was produced by Isabelle Carter.
Speaker 1: Our associate producer is Gabriel Hunter Chang. Our executive producer
Speaker 1: is Jacob Goldstein.
Speaker 2: If you like the show, please rate and review us
Speaker 2: so other people can find us too. And if you
Speaker 2: want to listen to an ad free.
Speaker 3: Version, sign up for Pushkin Plus.
Speaker 2: For six, ten and nine a month you get access
Speaker 2: to ad free listening. Thanks for tuning in