1 00:00:08,320 --> 00:00:08,800 Speaker 1: Pushkin. 2 00:00:12,039 --> 00:00:15,280 Speaker 2: Richard Thompson is a London born guitar virtuoso whose careers 3 00:00:15,360 --> 00:00:18,360 Speaker 2: started in nineteen sixty seven as part of the groundbreaking 4 00:00:18,400 --> 00:00:22,880 Speaker 2: folk band Fairport Convention. The following decade, Richard formed a 5 00:00:22,920 --> 00:00:26,240 Speaker 2: duo with his former wife, Lynda Thompson, and together they 6 00:00:26,280 --> 00:00:29,200 Speaker 2: released six albums, including the critically acclaimed I Want to 7 00:00:29,200 --> 00:00:32,360 Speaker 2: See the Bright Lights Tonight and my personal favorite pour 8 00:00:32,440 --> 00:00:36,160 Speaker 2: Down Like Silver. Richard then struck out on his own, 9 00:00:36,280 --> 00:00:38,839 Speaker 2: writing songs that I've since been covered by artists like 10 00:00:38,920 --> 00:00:43,640 Speaker 2: Robert plant of his Costello and Bonnie Ray. On today's episode, 11 00:00:43,680 --> 00:00:46,199 Speaker 2: Bruce Helim talks to Richard about his love of traditional 12 00:00:46,200 --> 00:00:48,680 Speaker 2: Scottish music and how he's reworked. 13 00:00:48,280 --> 00:00:49,840 Speaker 1: Old folk songs over the years. 14 00:00:50,320 --> 00:00:53,239 Speaker 2: Richard also plays examples of his unique playing style on 15 00:00:53,280 --> 00:00:56,040 Speaker 2: the guitar and talks about the time he played alongside 16 00:00:56,280 --> 00:01:04,959 Speaker 2: Jimmy Hendrix. Is broken record, Real musicians, real conversations. Here's 17 00:01:05,000 --> 00:01:06,840 Speaker 2: Bruce Hadlam with Richard Thompson. 18 00:01:08,200 --> 00:01:10,880 Speaker 1: You talked in your book about a big event for 19 00:01:10,920 --> 00:01:15,760 Speaker 1: you is when you heard the band's first album. It 20 00:01:15,840 --> 00:01:20,839 Speaker 1: helped reassure you that you're looking at Scottish music, particularly 21 00:01:20,880 --> 00:01:24,160 Speaker 1: in English and Irish, Yeah made sense. Can you talk 22 00:01:24,200 --> 00:01:26,560 Speaker 1: about what it was like to hear that record? 23 00:01:27,160 --> 00:01:29,880 Speaker 3: Well, the band's first album came out at a time 24 00:01:29,880 --> 00:01:33,120 Speaker 3: of sort of high psychedelia, you know, the San Francisco band, 25 00:01:33,160 --> 00:01:36,080 Speaker 3: So you know, some of which I thought were great, 26 00:01:36,120 --> 00:01:38,400 Speaker 3: Somemmer which I thought really were not very good, but 27 00:01:38,600 --> 00:01:40,440 Speaker 3: there was a kind of a looseners to it, and 28 00:01:40,480 --> 00:01:44,800 Speaker 3: I kind of a kind of a drugged noodling anyway, 29 00:01:44,880 --> 00:01:47,120 Speaker 3: you know, that was the provading culture at the time, 30 00:01:47,640 --> 00:01:50,600 Speaker 3: and when the band came along, it was kind of 31 00:01:50,600 --> 00:01:53,400 Speaker 3: a shotgend oft that the short haircuts for you know, wow, 32 00:01:53,480 --> 00:01:56,360 Speaker 3: you know, gosh, people with short haircutsing. So suddenly Y 33 00:01:56,360 --> 00:01:59,080 Speaker 3: had this music that this seemed very honest, and it 34 00:01:59,120 --> 00:02:02,240 Speaker 3: seemed very down to that, and it seemed rooted in 35 00:02:02,440 --> 00:02:08,079 Speaker 3: so many American music forms, but successfully rooted, successfully continuing 36 00:02:08,160 --> 00:02:10,280 Speaker 3: those traditions. I said, Yeah, you had gospel, you had RM, 37 00:02:10,320 --> 00:02:14,239 Speaker 3: but you had blues your country, you had jazz, all 38 00:02:14,480 --> 00:02:18,760 Speaker 3: perfectly blended and musicians who could play that stuff in 39 00:02:18,800 --> 00:02:21,720 Speaker 3: their sleep. But that's somehow they'd learned how to play 40 00:02:21,720 --> 00:02:25,000 Speaker 3: this stuff really really well for a bunch of basically Canadians, 41 00:02:25,000 --> 00:02:27,919 Speaker 3: you know. But plus you know, leave On from Arkansas. Yeah, 42 00:02:27,919 --> 00:02:31,040 Speaker 3: you had three great singers in that band, and you 43 00:02:31,040 --> 00:02:34,799 Speaker 3: had a you know, juniors keyboard player and sax player 44 00:02:34,840 --> 00:02:38,560 Speaker 3: in Garth Gods and God Rest Society just passed away. 45 00:02:40,280 --> 00:02:43,720 Speaker 3: And you had a great guitar player in Robbie Robertson, 46 00:02:43,680 --> 00:02:46,160 Speaker 3: and a great rhythm section, I mean one of the 47 00:02:46,200 --> 00:02:50,040 Speaker 3: best rhythm sections in the history of rock music anyway 48 00:02:50,639 --> 00:02:54,000 Speaker 3: in Levon and Rick Danko Ridanka is still one of 49 00:02:54,080 --> 00:02:55,919 Speaker 3: my favorite three bass players. 50 00:02:58,040 --> 00:03:01,440 Speaker 1: What interests me when you when you talk about particularly 51 00:03:01,480 --> 00:03:07,000 Speaker 1: that record, is you share something with the band that 52 00:03:07,080 --> 00:03:09,880 Speaker 1: not a lot of writers do, which is that you 53 00:03:09,919 --> 00:03:14,280 Speaker 1: write music that seems both very old and contemporary at 54 00:03:14,320 --> 00:03:15,000 Speaker 1: the same time. 55 00:03:15,360 --> 00:03:15,600 Speaker 3: Yeah. 56 00:03:16,000 --> 00:03:18,520 Speaker 1: You know, people always say, well, the band songs sound 57 00:03:18,560 --> 00:03:20,120 Speaker 1: like they could have been written a hundred years ago, 58 00:03:20,160 --> 00:03:22,480 Speaker 1: and I think not quite, because they sound modern too. 59 00:03:22,680 --> 00:03:22,920 Speaker 3: Yeah. 60 00:03:23,080 --> 00:03:26,560 Speaker 1: Yeah, and I can't think of many writers who really 61 00:03:26,600 --> 00:03:27,400 Speaker 1: pull that off. 62 00:03:28,639 --> 00:03:30,560 Speaker 3: Well, you know, you have to know your history, I 63 00:03:30,639 --> 00:03:33,359 Speaker 3: think first of all, which the band obviously did. I mean, 64 00:03:33,520 --> 00:03:36,880 Speaker 3: they knew their roots. You know, they jammed with Sunny 65 00:03:36,880 --> 00:03:40,840 Speaker 3: Boy Williamson. You know that they really understood certainly, you know, 66 00:03:41,320 --> 00:03:45,800 Speaker 3: rock rock and roll music, and as writers, particularly Robbie. 67 00:03:45,880 --> 00:03:47,840 Speaker 3: You know, it was a history buff you know, so 68 00:03:49,160 --> 00:03:51,120 Speaker 3: perhaps almost to a fault because I think some of 69 00:03:51,120 --> 00:03:54,440 Speaker 3: the lates stuff is a bit more labored. Things like 70 00:03:54,480 --> 00:03:56,680 Speaker 3: the night they drove off Dixie Down. I mean that's 71 00:03:57,120 --> 00:03:58,120 Speaker 3: just a piece of history. 72 00:03:58,240 --> 00:04:01,560 Speaker 1: It started in the library. Yeah, okay, So how did 73 00:04:01,600 --> 00:04:04,920 Speaker 1: you go back to investigate Scottish music? You grew up 74 00:04:04,920 --> 00:04:09,120 Speaker 1: with some, but there's a whole history there. Yeah, and 75 00:04:09,160 --> 00:04:11,160 Speaker 1: this is going to sound like a naive question. Are 76 00:04:11,160 --> 00:04:14,640 Speaker 1: there great resources that you could go to? Was it 77 00:04:14,760 --> 00:04:18,480 Speaker 1: just old records when you started looking back to research 78 00:04:18,520 --> 00:04:20,320 Speaker 1: this stuff? What were you looking at? 79 00:04:21,560 --> 00:04:24,400 Speaker 3: Various sources. You've got a great resource in London called 80 00:04:24,440 --> 00:04:28,040 Speaker 3: the Social Sharp House, which has a big library of 81 00:04:28,080 --> 00:04:32,040 Speaker 3: traditional music and there's what champions of traditional music and 82 00:04:32,800 --> 00:04:36,120 Speaker 3: preservas of traditional music. So you can go there and 83 00:04:36,279 --> 00:04:38,080 Speaker 3: look stuff up, you know. Yeah, you can get the 84 00:04:38,160 --> 00:04:41,239 Speaker 3: Child ballads, you know, the five volumes collected by Francis 85 00:04:41,279 --> 00:04:45,000 Speaker 3: James Child, which has like, you know, four hundred English, 86 00:04:45,040 --> 00:04:51,279 Speaker 3: Irish Scottish ballads in there. That's another great resource. There 87 00:04:51,320 --> 00:04:53,599 Speaker 3: are people who seeing this stuff. It's like a living tradition. 88 00:04:53,839 --> 00:04:57,120 Speaker 3: I mean, if you got out to Aberdeenshire in Scotland 89 00:04:57,440 --> 00:05:00,480 Speaker 3: in the nineteen seventies. You could have set in the 90 00:05:00,480 --> 00:05:05,320 Speaker 3: caravan of Lucy Stewart, you know, as many collectors did, 91 00:05:05,720 --> 00:05:10,600 Speaker 3: Kenny Goldstein and Shirley Collins. They all went up to 92 00:05:10,600 --> 00:05:14,680 Speaker 3: to to Lucy Stewart because she had an incredible memory 93 00:05:15,240 --> 00:05:21,280 Speaker 3: as a repository of traditional music. And after Kenny Goldstein left, 94 00:05:21,440 --> 00:05:24,840 Speaker 3: apparently she said, you know, he didn't he didn't get 95 00:05:24,880 --> 00:05:28,240 Speaker 3: a half of what I know, so a lot of 96 00:05:28,240 --> 00:05:30,600 Speaker 3: stuff might have passed away with her. You know, we 97 00:05:30,640 --> 00:05:35,040 Speaker 3: don't really know. So you've got all those resources. And 98 00:05:35,880 --> 00:05:39,000 Speaker 3: we learned a lot from people like Alor Lloyd, who 99 00:05:39,080 --> 00:05:44,279 Speaker 3: is who was another great musicologist who specialized in traditional 100 00:05:44,320 --> 00:05:47,360 Speaker 3: music and also a singer. And what we get Burt 101 00:05:47,360 --> 00:05:48,919 Speaker 3: on the end of the phone and say, Bert, we 102 00:05:49,000 --> 00:05:53,360 Speaker 3: got this song in Mattie Groves, you know, and we're 103 00:05:53,360 --> 00:05:56,200 Speaker 3: missing we like a better verse three. You know, well 104 00:05:56,360 --> 00:05:57,560 Speaker 3: what have you got would you know? 105 00:05:57,680 --> 00:05:57,800 Speaker 2: Then? 106 00:05:58,160 --> 00:05:59,599 Speaker 3: So he said, oh yeah, well if you take this 107 00:05:59,640 --> 00:06:01,880 Speaker 3: one from this source and that blah blah, you know. 108 00:06:02,000 --> 00:06:05,360 Speaker 3: So in a sense what we were compiling ballads from 109 00:06:05,400 --> 00:06:07,760 Speaker 3: all over the place really to come up with a 110 00:06:07,839 --> 00:06:12,240 Speaker 3: version that we felt really, you really did it, you know, 111 00:06:12,240 --> 00:06:15,240 Speaker 3: it really told the story. One of the great things 112 00:06:15,440 --> 00:06:19,480 Speaker 3: about some of those old songs it is how colorful 113 00:06:19,520 --> 00:06:22,520 Speaker 3: they are in a sense that they describe things in 114 00:06:22,560 --> 00:06:26,479 Speaker 3: a very colorful way, in a very immediate way that 115 00:06:26,640 --> 00:06:30,320 Speaker 3: suits you know, a rock band actually could quite well. 116 00:06:30,560 --> 00:06:32,880 Speaker 3: It suits an electric treatment quite well. 117 00:06:33,040 --> 00:06:35,040 Speaker 1: Were there songs that just resisted it you thought, no, 118 00:06:35,160 --> 00:06:37,760 Speaker 1: this song, it just belongs to another age. We can't. 119 00:06:38,040 --> 00:06:42,080 Speaker 3: Yeah. Sometimes, yeah, I think sometimes there was a feeling, 120 00:06:43,120 --> 00:06:45,880 Speaker 3: you know, that the song was too pastoral and that 121 00:06:46,000 --> 00:06:48,760 Speaker 3: wasn't really our lives in the twentieth century, you know, 122 00:06:48,800 --> 00:06:51,599 Speaker 3: where we were kind of urban nights or suburban nights and 123 00:06:51,760 --> 00:06:54,800 Speaker 3: a song about you know, you know, I Sow the 124 00:06:54,800 --> 00:06:57,120 Speaker 3: seeds of love. I think we eventually recorded a bit, 125 00:06:57,160 --> 00:06:59,880 Speaker 3: but I was a bit reluctant to do it because 126 00:06:59,880 --> 00:07:03,400 Speaker 3: I thought it's too you know, it's too soft. You 127 00:07:03,440 --> 00:07:06,160 Speaker 3: know that there are better songs that there are kind 128 00:07:06,160 --> 00:07:10,040 Speaker 3: of industrial songs, there are work songs that would fit 129 00:07:10,160 --> 00:07:12,720 Speaker 3: the genre, but it would fit you know, the the 130 00:07:12,760 --> 00:07:16,960 Speaker 3: electric band setting better. But you know, something like like 131 00:07:17,000 --> 00:07:19,800 Speaker 3: Magic Roads. It's just that it's such great language. The 132 00:07:19,880 --> 00:07:23,640 Speaker 3: laghage is fantastic you know, you know, a grave, a grave. 133 00:07:23,800 --> 00:07:26,920 Speaker 3: Lord rold cried to put these lovers in but bury 134 00:07:26,960 --> 00:07:29,200 Speaker 3: my lady at the top. She was of noble kin. 135 00:07:29,880 --> 00:07:32,440 Speaker 3: You know, it's really beautiful, clever, you know. 136 00:07:33,520 --> 00:07:35,720 Speaker 1: So did that that in a sense gave you your 137 00:07:35,760 --> 00:07:37,640 Speaker 1: vocabulary for your own music? 138 00:07:38,280 --> 00:07:38,920 Speaker 3: I think partly? 139 00:07:39,000 --> 00:07:41,559 Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure, you're known as a very depressing writer. 140 00:07:42,120 --> 00:07:45,760 Speaker 1: Of course, because so many of your songs are about 141 00:07:47,200 --> 00:07:50,160 Speaker 1: love a band and love scorned being alone. 142 00:07:50,560 --> 00:07:52,960 Speaker 3: Well I suppose. I mean, you know thematically, you write 143 00:07:53,000 --> 00:07:55,520 Speaker 3: about what you know, and you write about you know, 144 00:07:55,680 --> 00:07:59,320 Speaker 3: human states that have been written about for hundreds of years, 145 00:07:59,480 --> 00:08:01,560 Speaker 3: so that there are a kind of a tradition. There's 146 00:08:01,600 --> 00:08:04,760 Speaker 3: an overlap. But I'd be very interested. I'd be very sorry. 147 00:08:04,800 --> 00:08:08,520 Speaker 3: I'm influenced by the language of traditional music. 148 00:08:09,000 --> 00:08:12,000 Speaker 1: Now when you get these songs, they wouldn't come with harmonies. 149 00:08:12,000 --> 00:08:13,120 Speaker 1: Were they mostly melodies? 150 00:08:15,560 --> 00:08:15,640 Speaker 3: Like? 151 00:08:15,720 --> 00:08:17,760 Speaker 1: Did you have to re harmonize a lot of these things? 152 00:08:18,480 --> 00:08:19,160 Speaker 3: Yes? We did. 153 00:08:19,280 --> 00:08:22,960 Speaker 1: Yeah, American music, I guess, because so much is influenced 154 00:08:22,960 --> 00:08:27,280 Speaker 1: by blues. Just it's got such a strong resolution, you know, 155 00:08:27,480 --> 00:08:31,480 Speaker 1: just heads towards that final chord, and I find a 156 00:08:31,520 --> 00:08:33,360 Speaker 1: lot of the music you were playing a lot of 157 00:08:33,360 --> 00:08:36,720 Speaker 1: the folk music, it sort of expands, it doesn't have 158 00:08:36,760 --> 00:08:43,240 Speaker 1: that that same drive towards sort of the final resolution. 159 00:08:43,280 --> 00:08:46,880 Speaker 3: I think, well, I think people, you know, people like 160 00:08:46,960 --> 00:08:50,559 Speaker 3: Davey Graham, people like Martin Cathy developed a way of 161 00:08:50,600 --> 00:08:57,080 Speaker 3: accompanying traditional music in a way that reflected more what 162 00:08:57,160 --> 00:09:00,679 Speaker 3: you're hearing a solo vocal performance, so that a lack 163 00:09:00,720 --> 00:09:03,439 Speaker 3: of resolution. And the way you did that is through 164 00:09:03,480 --> 00:09:14,839 Speaker 3: suspensions really you know, through not resolving. So that's the 165 00:09:14,880 --> 00:09:18,160 Speaker 3: tuning that the Davey Graham I think it was the 166 00:09:18,200 --> 00:09:20,480 Speaker 3: first person to come up with. It's not onlike a 167 00:09:20,920 --> 00:09:24,480 Speaker 3: Clarence actually banjo tuning from the Appalachians in the nineteen 168 00:09:25,160 --> 00:09:29,079 Speaker 3: you know, thirties onwards. And what is the it's it's 169 00:09:28,840 --> 00:09:32,680 Speaker 3: basically D A D A D G A D. 170 00:09:33,040 --> 00:09:35,280 Speaker 1: So he was the first to use like a dead 171 00:09:35,320 --> 00:09:36,080 Speaker 1: get suspension. 172 00:09:36,120 --> 00:09:38,440 Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, it's. 173 00:09:38,280 --> 00:09:50,680 Speaker 1: A suspension because it's a it's a sixth yeah right yeah, okay. 174 00:09:48,800 --> 00:09:51,080 Speaker 3: So that some may start that when it may finished 175 00:09:51,080 --> 00:09:56,400 Speaker 3: that way as well, which is good, which is just 176 00:09:56,480 --> 00:09:59,240 Speaker 3: leaves it open. I mean, it doesn't resolve anything, you know, 177 00:10:00,920 --> 00:10:02,480 Speaker 3: is it for you know, something like she moves with 178 00:10:02,520 --> 00:10:03,079 Speaker 3: a fair. 179 00:10:04,400 --> 00:10:08,880 Speaker 4: My young love said to me, my parents will, Ma, 180 00:10:11,960 --> 00:10:15,280 Speaker 4: my father will like you for your lack a harp. 181 00:10:15,400 --> 00:10:15,640 Speaker 3: Come. 182 00:10:20,840 --> 00:10:26,240 Speaker 1: And she let her hand on me, and then she did. 183 00:10:26,280 --> 00:10:39,840 Speaker 5: Say, what will not long? 184 00:10:51,480 --> 00:10:55,400 Speaker 3: Yeah? Sorry, kind of rings over. You have a nice 185 00:10:55,440 --> 00:10:58,240 Speaker 3: thing about those kind of open tunings is if you're 186 00:10:58,280 --> 00:11:01,719 Speaker 3: a solo guitarist, you get a bit size, you get 187 00:11:01,720 --> 00:11:03,720 Speaker 3: a bit more volume out of the guitar. But because 188 00:11:03,720 --> 00:11:06,120 Speaker 3: so many notes are ringing over, gives the illusion that 189 00:11:06,320 --> 00:11:08,200 Speaker 3: you're a best guitar player than you actually are. 190 00:11:08,280 --> 00:11:12,320 Speaker 1: I'm going to remember that now. Some of your songs 191 00:11:12,760 --> 00:11:15,440 Speaker 1: walking on the wires a song, Yeah, I think of that, 192 00:11:16,000 --> 00:11:18,400 Speaker 1: and I know it does resolve in the end, but 193 00:11:19,400 --> 00:11:21,280 Speaker 1: it almost feels like it could end on the fourth, 194 00:11:21,320 --> 00:11:24,719 Speaker 1: it could end on other tones. The Great Valerio is 195 00:11:24,760 --> 00:11:28,200 Speaker 1: another one to me that it feels very much like that. 196 00:11:28,800 --> 00:11:31,480 Speaker 1: You seem to like these songs that don't have the 197 00:11:34,760 --> 00:11:36,480 Speaker 1: just they just have a different I don't know if 198 00:11:36,480 --> 00:11:39,360 Speaker 1: it's the form that's different. I don't quite know how 199 00:11:39,360 --> 00:11:40,000 Speaker 1: to describe it. 200 00:11:40,160 --> 00:11:42,360 Speaker 3: Yeah, well know you mean, and I do like that, 201 00:11:42,480 --> 00:11:44,800 Speaker 3: you know, I like that like a resolution in a sense. 202 00:11:45,080 --> 00:11:46,959 Speaker 3: But again, I think it all comes from vocal music. 203 00:11:47,160 --> 00:11:50,240 Speaker 3: I think it comes from hearing somebody sing a song 204 00:11:50,320 --> 00:11:54,679 Speaker 3: unaccompanied and you imply what the harmony is. And if 205 00:11:54,720 --> 00:11:58,760 Speaker 3: you're schooled in you know, you get kind of Mozart 206 00:11:59,120 --> 00:12:01,440 Speaker 3: kind of harmony or something, then you're going to accompany 207 00:12:01,440 --> 00:12:04,600 Speaker 3: it that way. If you come from a more traditional background, 208 00:12:04,760 --> 00:12:07,120 Speaker 3: or if you're Mars and Carthy or Davey Graham, you're 209 00:12:07,120 --> 00:12:08,760 Speaker 3: going to interpret it in a different way. You're going 210 00:12:08,800 --> 00:12:12,920 Speaker 3: to interpret the harmony as something else, or you're just 211 00:12:12,920 --> 00:12:15,559 Speaker 3: going to add a drone to the whole thing and 212 00:12:15,559 --> 00:12:17,160 Speaker 3: and just just leave it floating. 213 00:12:17,440 --> 00:12:19,040 Speaker 1: Now, do you use a lot of drone notes? 214 00:12:19,559 --> 00:12:19,760 Speaker 3: Yeah? 215 00:12:20,360 --> 00:12:22,359 Speaker 1: Does that? Does that come from bagpipe? 216 00:12:22,440 --> 00:12:23,120 Speaker 3: Yeah? Pretty much. 217 00:12:23,920 --> 00:12:25,400 Speaker 1: And so when you're doing that, do you do you 218 00:12:25,400 --> 00:12:27,760 Speaker 1: try and you try and use an open string for 219 00:12:27,800 --> 00:12:28,280 Speaker 1: the drone? 220 00:12:28,400 --> 00:12:29,640 Speaker 3: Yeah? 221 00:12:29,720 --> 00:12:32,000 Speaker 1: And is it always the tonic or. 222 00:12:32,240 --> 00:12:42,160 Speaker 3: They're practicularly it's either going to be the G or 223 00:12:42,200 --> 00:12:42,400 Speaker 3: the D. 224 00:13:00,720 --> 00:13:02,960 Speaker 1: It's funny because in you know, a lot of jazz, 225 00:13:03,080 --> 00:13:06,720 Speaker 1: it'll be the high note will be uh, particularly in 226 00:13:06,760 --> 00:13:09,360 Speaker 1: the piano. Yeah, that's how they'll harmonize a lot of 227 00:13:09,400 --> 00:13:11,440 Speaker 1: like little runs and things like you'd have you'll have 228 00:13:11,480 --> 00:13:13,800 Speaker 1: the high tonic. And then do you ever use like 229 00:13:13,880 --> 00:13:14,920 Speaker 1: the high e for. 230 00:13:15,000 --> 00:13:16,719 Speaker 3: The well, yeah you can, you can do do it 231 00:13:16,720 --> 00:13:17,760 Speaker 3: the other way around that exactly. 232 00:13:17,880 --> 00:13:55,760 Speaker 1: So yeah, you also use you use an enormous number 233 00:13:55,760 --> 00:14:00,480 Speaker 1: of like trills on your Is that again the bagpipe influence. 234 00:14:01,160 --> 00:14:05,679 Speaker 3: It's traditionally influence you bagpipes, you know, Scottish, Irish fiddle players, 235 00:14:05,800 --> 00:14:10,240 Speaker 3: accordion players. There's a lot of grace notes, a lot 236 00:14:10,240 --> 00:14:13,199 Speaker 3: of extra notes around the note that that would be 237 00:14:13,200 --> 00:14:15,520 Speaker 3: a big part of the expression or where you're playing. 238 00:14:15,559 --> 00:14:18,400 Speaker 3: In something like a dance tune, that's pretty much sets 239 00:14:18,440 --> 00:14:20,680 Speaker 3: you know, this is the tune that, this is how 240 00:14:20,720 --> 00:14:23,640 Speaker 3: you play it. To make it more interesting, you might 241 00:14:23,680 --> 00:14:26,880 Speaker 3: add more flourishes and bits and pieces, you know that 242 00:14:45,840 --> 00:14:46,840 Speaker 3: kind of you know that kind of stuff. 243 00:14:46,880 --> 00:14:54,040 Speaker 1: Well, is there any and I don't even know if 244 00:14:54,040 --> 00:14:57,000 Speaker 1: the harp is a is a Celtic instrument? 245 00:14:57,160 --> 00:15:01,280 Speaker 3: Sure is? You know the original Western European and instrument 246 00:15:01,600 --> 00:15:03,920 Speaker 3: for a companying voice was there was the harp, you know, 247 00:15:03,920 --> 00:15:06,600 Speaker 3: the small harp the ballad hop right, So people like 248 00:15:06,800 --> 00:15:09,800 Speaker 3: Richard the first Richard the Lionheart, who was a singer songwriter, 249 00:15:09,880 --> 00:15:13,240 Speaker 3: thank you very much. His mother was Eleanor Vakatain, who 250 00:15:13,360 --> 00:15:16,400 Speaker 3: was a champion of the arts. But if you were 251 00:15:16,400 --> 00:15:20,080 Speaker 3: a king or a courtier or something. Among your accomplishments 252 00:15:20,560 --> 00:15:24,600 Speaker 3: besides like you know, murdering people, you know, like spiking 253 00:15:24,640 --> 00:15:27,160 Speaker 3: people through with a sword or was you had to 254 00:15:27,240 --> 00:15:29,920 Speaker 3: dance and you had to sing, and in some cases 255 00:15:29,920 --> 00:15:32,400 Speaker 3: you could be a songwriter. Henry the eighth was a songwriter. 256 00:15:33,400 --> 00:15:35,920 Speaker 3: Oh yeah. Also I would have accompanied himself on the 257 00:15:36,120 --> 00:15:39,760 Speaker 3: on the harp. He wrote songs like black is the 258 00:15:39,760 --> 00:15:41,720 Speaker 3: color of my true love's hair, which I'm sure it 259 00:15:41,800 --> 00:15:46,880 Speaker 3: is never off your turntable pastime with good company, and he. 260 00:15:46,880 --> 00:15:49,120 Speaker 1: Would stroke it out and say blonde is the color? 261 00:15:49,240 --> 00:15:54,960 Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yes, yeah, so we still got Adde 262 00:15:54,960 --> 00:16:00,280 Speaker 3: Bollyn's head anywhere. Yeah, check the hair color. Yeah. Didn't 263 00:16:00,280 --> 00:16:02,640 Speaker 3: write green sleeves, so that came a little late, but 264 00:16:02,840 --> 00:16:05,600 Speaker 3: that was accredited to him for a while. So yeah. 265 00:16:05,800 --> 00:16:07,760 Speaker 3: So if you if you're if you're a king, courts 266 00:16:07,840 --> 00:16:09,520 Speaker 3: you singer songwriter. 267 00:16:09,880 --> 00:16:12,240 Speaker 1: Like all great songwriters, he took credit for things he 268 00:16:12,240 --> 00:16:15,360 Speaker 1: didn't actually write. Well, when you're king, very country. Yeah, 269 00:16:15,520 --> 00:16:18,120 Speaker 1: when you're king, you say, oh, I think I wrote 270 00:16:18,160 --> 00:16:22,000 Speaker 1: this one. Of course you did, your majesty. Is there 271 00:16:22,000 --> 00:16:23,880 Speaker 1: any harp influence in your playing? 272 00:16:24,320 --> 00:16:26,720 Speaker 3: Yeah? Any any kind of guitar or covered with with 273 00:16:27,000 --> 00:16:35,080 Speaker 3: your finger picking. It's a very hard like and if 274 00:16:35,160 --> 00:16:43,560 Speaker 3: if you use, if you use those kind of strings 275 00:16:43,560 --> 00:16:45,240 Speaker 3: that ring over, you know, those kind. 276 00:16:45,080 --> 00:16:50,440 Speaker 1: Of tell me what you mean that when you say 277 00:16:50,600 --> 00:16:51,680 Speaker 1: strings that are ringing over. 278 00:16:51,800 --> 00:17:00,240 Speaker 3: Well, you know, like like I see, I suppose to 279 00:17:05,680 --> 00:17:08,359 Speaker 3: call straight flat picking more jazz style. 280 00:17:08,920 --> 00:17:11,720 Speaker 1: So for people who would be casual listeners, they might 281 00:17:11,760 --> 00:17:17,959 Speaker 1: think you were born somewhere on a Scottish glen to goatherds. 282 00:17:18,160 --> 00:17:19,800 Speaker 3: Well, that sounds romantic. 283 00:17:19,640 --> 00:17:24,120 Speaker 1: It does, as it turns out. It turns out I'm 284 00:17:24,160 --> 00:17:28,280 Speaker 1: really from London, suburban London. Suburban London suburbs are a 285 00:17:28,280 --> 00:17:32,840 Speaker 1: wonderful place. It all comes from the suburbs. The Rolling Stones, 286 00:17:33,080 --> 00:17:35,119 Speaker 1: the Beatles, inner sense come from the suburbs, you know, 287 00:17:35,400 --> 00:17:38,200 Speaker 1: the Kings come from the suburbs fairly close to where 288 00:17:38,200 --> 00:17:39,000 Speaker 1: I grew up as well. 289 00:17:39,840 --> 00:17:41,960 Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, but my father was Scottish, so that's always 290 00:17:41,960 --> 00:17:46,920 Speaker 3: been a strand in the music, you know, and as 291 00:17:46,960 --> 00:17:50,480 Speaker 3: a kid I was kind of transfixed by Scottish music, 292 00:17:50,520 --> 00:17:53,280 Speaker 3: but by things like bagpipes, you know, hearing bagpipes outdoors 293 00:17:53,280 --> 00:17:55,919 Speaker 3: where where you get that that kind of Doppler effect 294 00:17:56,359 --> 00:17:58,159 Speaker 3: or that kind of phasing thing. You know. 295 00:17:58,320 --> 00:17:59,800 Speaker 1: Oh, even as a kid, you like that. 296 00:18:00,480 --> 00:18:01,919 Speaker 3: Well, you know, just one of the first music I 297 00:18:01,920 --> 00:18:05,480 Speaker 3: ever heard was probably going with my parents up to 298 00:18:05,600 --> 00:18:08,919 Speaker 3: Edinburgh Castle. I'm watching the military tattoo, you know, with 299 00:18:08,960 --> 00:18:12,440 Speaker 3: these incredible pipe bands. I suppose I could have been 300 00:18:12,600 --> 00:18:15,879 Speaker 3: attracted to the incredible drumming, but it was it was 301 00:18:15,920 --> 00:18:19,160 Speaker 3: more the you know, Scottish use of melody. I think 302 00:18:20,000 --> 00:18:22,920 Speaker 3: hit me for very young, my melody and drone, which 303 00:18:23,040 --> 00:18:25,080 Speaker 3: you know, it's an old It's an old human thing, 304 00:18:25,160 --> 00:18:30,119 Speaker 3: isn't it. You know, in Western European music, you know 305 00:18:30,160 --> 00:18:32,520 Speaker 3: that they developed kind of the chord a compliment, you know, 306 00:18:33,840 --> 00:18:37,000 Speaker 3: but a lot of cultures didn't go that way though, 307 00:18:37,040 --> 00:18:40,680 Speaker 3: that they just had the drone and the melody and 308 00:18:41,800 --> 00:18:44,120 Speaker 3: a lot of instidments playing in Unison, that kind of thing, 309 00:18:44,800 --> 00:18:47,240 Speaker 3: which I also find very attractive. Although I do like 310 00:18:47,240 --> 00:18:49,120 Speaker 3: harmony as well, I like everything. 311 00:18:49,480 --> 00:18:54,600 Speaker 1: Is there something distinctive about Scottish melodies? Are there certain 312 00:18:56,000 --> 00:18:57,360 Speaker 1: tones they emphasize? 313 00:18:57,680 --> 00:19:00,879 Speaker 3: You know that there's an interesting Scottish use of the 314 00:19:00,880 --> 00:19:03,560 Speaker 3: pentatonic scale. And you know, if if you think of 315 00:19:03,600 --> 00:19:07,119 Speaker 3: country music where that comes from, a lot of it 316 00:19:07,119 --> 00:19:11,920 Speaker 3: comes from Scottish music. The Scots were a notable ethnic 317 00:19:11,960 --> 00:19:16,160 Speaker 3: group in the Appalachians and that you know that that 318 00:19:16,160 --> 00:19:20,920 Speaker 3: that classic country you know, major pentatonic scale do you do? 319 00:19:21,240 --> 00:19:21,399 Speaker 3: You do? 320 00:19:21,680 --> 00:19:23,520 Speaker 4: You do that? 321 00:19:23,640 --> 00:19:25,760 Speaker 3: That's all over country music and it's all over Scottish 322 00:19:25,840 --> 00:19:29,960 Speaker 3: music as well. And so so that there's that pentatonic scale, 323 00:19:29,960 --> 00:19:34,480 Speaker 3: there's a there's another Scottish pentatonic scale which doesn't have 324 00:19:34,480 --> 00:19:43,840 Speaker 3: a third in it. There's no major or minor. 325 00:19:52,520 --> 00:19:55,119 Speaker 1: I see, So how would you if you were going 326 00:19:55,200 --> 00:19:56,080 Speaker 1: to harmonize that? 327 00:19:56,359 --> 00:19:58,720 Speaker 3: You know, the classic way to harmonize Scottish music is 328 00:19:58,720 --> 00:20:04,320 Speaker 3: basically to use the the root called and one, so 329 00:20:04,440 --> 00:20:08,480 Speaker 3: I k d you use the sea as well as. 330 00:20:12,880 --> 00:20:14,800 Speaker 1: There's almost a mixed Ildien sound. 331 00:20:14,880 --> 00:20:19,000 Speaker 3: Yeah, and it's kind of I would say it's unique 332 00:20:19,000 --> 00:20:22,000 Speaker 3: to Scottish music, but it's it's it's fairly unusual and 333 00:20:23,160 --> 00:20:25,720 Speaker 3: it's almost a bit lonesome in a sense, you know, Yeah, yeah, 334 00:20:25,760 --> 00:20:29,199 Speaker 3: you get this kind of spaciousness. Well, work with that 335 00:20:29,200 --> 00:20:32,080 Speaker 3: particular scale, I find which it was suitable for the backpipe, 336 00:20:32,119 --> 00:20:35,000 Speaker 3: you know, which is out there you know playing on yeah, 337 00:20:35,119 --> 00:20:36,800 Speaker 3: up in the mountains or you know, at the end 338 00:20:36,800 --> 00:20:40,640 Speaker 3: of a loch or something. So you know, it's it's 339 00:20:40,640 --> 00:20:43,480 Speaker 3: a dimension of music that struck me very young, and 340 00:20:43,520 --> 00:20:45,959 Speaker 3: it kind of stayed with me as well, even as 341 00:20:46,000 --> 00:20:48,439 Speaker 3: I learn more about harmony and I learned about you know, 342 00:20:49,200 --> 00:20:54,520 Speaker 3: you know, ponlytonalism and twelve tone and dissonance and uh 343 00:20:54,920 --> 00:20:57,520 Speaker 3: that those basic kind of like drone in the fifth 344 00:20:57,680 --> 00:20:59,840 Speaker 3: or or you know that there's still very compeling. 345 00:21:13,119 --> 00:21:15,160 Speaker 2: We'll be back with more from Richard Thompson and Bruce 346 00:21:15,200 --> 00:21:16,600 Speaker 2: Headlam after the break. 347 00:21:20,960 --> 00:21:22,439 Speaker 1: When did you first pick up a guitar? 348 00:21:23,040 --> 00:21:26,920 Speaker 3: I think I was probably ten. Yeah, my father was 349 00:21:26,920 --> 00:21:29,879 Speaker 3: was an amateur guitar player. You know, no, they're not 350 00:21:29,920 --> 00:21:33,320 Speaker 3: actually very good, and one day he bought him a 351 00:21:33,400 --> 00:21:36,520 Speaker 3: guitar one of his old army mates. We worked in 352 00:21:36,560 --> 00:21:38,359 Speaker 3: a guitar shop in at the West End of London, 353 00:21:38,880 --> 00:21:41,280 Speaker 3: and I had this damaged guitar, like the side had 354 00:21:41,320 --> 00:21:45,120 Speaker 3: split open in transit, and my father, being I would work, 355 00:21:45,320 --> 00:21:47,120 Speaker 3: you know, glued it up and thought this is great, 356 00:21:47,160 --> 00:21:49,560 Speaker 3: I'm going to play it. But I grabbed it before 357 00:21:49,720 --> 00:21:51,919 Speaker 3: anybody else could get their hands on it and basically 358 00:21:52,080 --> 00:21:56,760 Speaker 3: commandeered it. And you know, at that time, you know, 359 00:21:56,760 --> 00:21:58,919 Speaker 3: it's kind of a you know, we're talking about nineteen sixty, 360 00:21:59,560 --> 00:22:02,399 Speaker 3: you know, rockn roll where it was still around. I 361 00:22:02,440 --> 00:22:05,960 Speaker 3: had an older sister who had Buddy Holly Records and 362 00:22:05,960 --> 00:22:10,280 Speaker 3: Elvis Records and June Vincent and Jerry D Lewis. 363 00:22:10,119 --> 00:22:10,280 Speaker 4: You know. 364 00:22:11,000 --> 00:22:13,800 Speaker 3: So you know, the guitar was a very hip thing. 365 00:22:14,400 --> 00:22:16,959 Speaker 3: And also in Britain you had an instrumental bank called 366 00:22:16,960 --> 00:22:20,919 Speaker 3: the Shadows, which they were kind of British Adventures if 367 00:22:20,960 --> 00:22:23,520 Speaker 3: you like. But actually much better players are much much 368 00:22:23,520 --> 00:22:24,240 Speaker 3: better recorded. 369 00:22:24,520 --> 00:22:26,920 Speaker 1: I wanted to ask you about the Shadows because they 370 00:22:26,960 --> 00:22:30,239 Speaker 1: loomed so large. Oh they did in England. People here 371 00:22:30,240 --> 00:22:33,360 Speaker 1: would know their stuff because they associated with surf music. 372 00:22:33,160 --> 00:22:36,320 Speaker 3: And Canada as well. Actually, you know, a more local 373 00:22:37,160 --> 00:22:40,200 Speaker 3: hotspot for for the Shadows, was that, right. Neil Younger 374 00:22:40,359 --> 00:22:43,760 Speaker 3: claims he was a huge Shadows fan, okay, and you 375 00:22:43,760 --> 00:22:46,439 Speaker 3: can hear in his playing actually it's used to that, 376 00:22:46,560 --> 00:22:47,520 Speaker 3: you know, the wammy bar. 377 00:22:47,440 --> 00:22:50,800 Speaker 1: And everything, right, yeah, and you like them as well well, yeah. 378 00:22:50,760 --> 00:22:52,640 Speaker 3: I mean it was a great sound, of very deductive sound, 379 00:22:52,880 --> 00:22:56,159 Speaker 3: and it was something that you could get together with 380 00:22:56,400 --> 00:23:01,320 Speaker 3: with your with your friends and and that was the 381 00:23:01,400 --> 00:23:05,520 Speaker 3: kind of the beginning of playing in a group, you know, 382 00:23:05,720 --> 00:23:08,159 Speaker 3: of learning from each other, which is what happens when 383 00:23:08,200 --> 00:23:10,480 Speaker 3: you joined a banner. You kind of pick stuff up 384 00:23:12,000 --> 00:23:14,440 Speaker 3: from the other people in the band and you slowly 385 00:23:15,440 --> 00:23:19,040 Speaker 3: spiral upwards. We hope you know as musicians. But yeah, 386 00:23:19,240 --> 00:23:23,600 Speaker 3: the Shadows were very influential on every body of a 387 00:23:23,600 --> 00:23:25,520 Speaker 3: certain age. I mean really, you know, if you speak 388 00:23:25,560 --> 00:23:28,120 Speaker 3: to Jimmy Page or somebody, you know, he was like, oh, yeah, 389 00:23:28,119 --> 00:23:29,520 Speaker 3: I hate Marvin you know the Shadows. 390 00:23:29,800 --> 00:23:31,840 Speaker 1: Yeah, could he play a strat well, well. 391 00:23:32,000 --> 00:23:35,960 Speaker 3: The story is at that time that there was a 392 00:23:36,000 --> 00:23:39,560 Speaker 3: band on American imports of instruments for some reasons, so 393 00:23:39,720 --> 00:23:42,439 Speaker 3: you couldn't buy a Fender, you couldn't buy Gibson. So 394 00:23:42,520 --> 00:23:45,120 Speaker 3: Cliff Richard, who the Shadows, used to back well when 395 00:23:45,119 --> 00:23:46,679 Speaker 3: I was at the States because he had a hit 396 00:23:46,720 --> 00:23:51,320 Speaker 3: record here and and he brought back the first actual 397 00:23:51,320 --> 00:23:54,200 Speaker 3: Fender stratocaster to go into England and he came to 398 00:23:54,880 --> 00:23:56,679 Speaker 3: Hank so that was a big thing. And then they 399 00:23:56,720 --> 00:24:00,959 Speaker 3: all got kitted out with fenders, you know, so exciting stuff. 400 00:24:01,119 --> 00:24:03,119 Speaker 1: This is has such a distinct, beautiful sound. 401 00:24:03,520 --> 00:24:08,720 Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, it's all about tone, and you used you know, 402 00:24:09,080 --> 00:24:12,520 Speaker 3: like these so fairly primitive these days, but but you know, 403 00:24:12,560 --> 00:24:16,080 Speaker 3: to tape eco device it's for portable tapeco machines to 404 00:24:16,119 --> 00:24:18,800 Speaker 3: give him a bit of extra reverb. 405 00:24:19,160 --> 00:24:22,000 Speaker 1: There are other players that you've talked about, and one 406 00:24:22,080 --> 00:24:24,679 Speaker 1: and again not someone people over here have listened to 407 00:24:25,440 --> 00:24:26,280 Speaker 1: is Davey Graham. 408 00:24:26,520 --> 00:24:29,160 Speaker 3: Yeah, he's kind of the first guy through the door, 409 00:24:29,240 --> 00:24:36,600 Speaker 3: you know. But maybe mid mid fifties. Davy was acoustic 410 00:24:36,640 --> 00:24:38,840 Speaker 3: guitar pler, and I should stress that first of all. 411 00:24:39,160 --> 00:24:43,359 Speaker 3: And he was playing kind of a blended style. He 412 00:24:43,640 --> 00:24:45,919 Speaker 3: was playing something that had Scottish re roots and he 413 00:24:45,960 --> 00:24:49,040 Speaker 3: was part Scottish West Indian roots here he was got 414 00:24:49,080 --> 00:24:53,359 Speaker 3: part Guyanese and you know, throwing in jazz kind of 415 00:24:53,359 --> 00:24:57,240 Speaker 3: throneous monk and stuff, you know, and kind of blending 416 00:24:57,240 --> 00:24:59,240 Speaker 3: it all together with a bit of you maybe Morocco 417 00:24:59,359 --> 00:25:02,280 Speaker 3: music into Morocco and kind of soaked up a bit 418 00:25:02,320 --> 00:25:06,080 Speaker 3: of music down there, and it kind of blended into 419 00:25:06,160 --> 00:25:08,400 Speaker 3: this style that that kind of stayed in a sense. 420 00:25:08,440 --> 00:25:12,000 Speaker 3: You know that that influenced Bert Jansch. So Bert jan 421 00:25:12,160 --> 00:25:15,439 Speaker 3: had a kind of you know, Scottish English traditional style 422 00:25:15,680 --> 00:25:17,920 Speaker 3: with a bit of blues thrown in. You know who 423 00:25:18,040 --> 00:25:21,720 Speaker 3: was Martin Carthy, you know, influenced but by by David Graham. 424 00:25:22,040 --> 00:25:24,760 Speaker 3: He was just kind of pioneer and in a sense 425 00:25:26,160 --> 00:25:27,560 Speaker 3: he was kind of all over the place, you know. 426 00:25:27,600 --> 00:25:30,160 Speaker 3: You know, you know you had to kind of discipline 427 00:25:30,240 --> 00:25:34,280 Speaker 3: him to to make sense of his music, you know, 428 00:25:34,400 --> 00:25:35,840 Speaker 3: because he just sit down and say, oh this is 429 00:25:35,960 --> 00:25:38,240 Speaker 3: you heard this tune from Marks, you know, blah blah 430 00:25:38,240 --> 00:25:40,000 Speaker 3: blah blah blah. And I said, oh, this is a 431 00:25:40,280 --> 00:25:43,359 Speaker 3: this is yeah, this is Miles Davis. You know, he 432 00:25:43,520 --> 00:25:46,280 Speaker 3: just be you know, all over the place. So to 433 00:25:46,280 --> 00:25:49,640 Speaker 3: sit him down and and and have him more disciplined 434 00:25:49,640 --> 00:25:53,000 Speaker 3: but was quite a thing, you know. And you know 435 00:25:53,080 --> 00:25:55,359 Speaker 3: he was junkie, you know. Yeah, he had a lot 436 00:25:55,400 --> 00:25:59,119 Speaker 3: of issues and it's life. But but you know I 437 00:25:59,119 --> 00:26:01,560 Speaker 3: saw him from time to time. I mean, he's a 438 00:26:01,560 --> 00:26:02,400 Speaker 3: good man, good man. 439 00:26:02,680 --> 00:26:05,639 Speaker 1: It strikes me that that you're a more disciplined player 440 00:26:05,760 --> 00:26:08,560 Speaker 1: that like when you talk about chance putting sort of 441 00:26:08,560 --> 00:26:12,399 Speaker 1: blues in Scottish, you don't do that as much like 442 00:26:12,440 --> 00:26:15,240 Speaker 1: when you're playing a more bluesy style, which is a 443 00:26:15,280 --> 00:26:18,000 Speaker 1: more rock style for you, not you don't really do blues. 444 00:26:18,320 --> 00:26:22,320 Speaker 1: You tend to play a little more formally. Is that true? 445 00:26:22,480 --> 00:26:22,760 Speaker 3: Yeah? 446 00:26:22,920 --> 00:26:23,679 Speaker 1: Or is that unfair? 447 00:26:23,920 --> 00:26:24,080 Speaker 4: Well? 448 00:26:24,520 --> 00:26:28,240 Speaker 3: I think not so much. Formally it's different. You know. 449 00:26:28,440 --> 00:26:32,399 Speaker 3: I think I realized in about nineteen sixty seven that 450 00:26:32,480 --> 00:26:36,240 Speaker 3: there's a lot of competition in London for blues guitar players, 451 00:26:36,280 --> 00:26:37,760 Speaker 3: you know. You know, but in my school back yet 452 00:26:37,880 --> 00:26:39,480 Speaker 3: we were playing blues r and be all that kind 453 00:26:39,480 --> 00:26:42,000 Speaker 3: of stuff. But at a certain point, I thought, you know, 454 00:26:42,400 --> 00:26:44,399 Speaker 3: you know, yeah, you've got a piece of green out. 455 00:26:44,400 --> 00:26:47,840 Speaker 3: You've got Rick Klatton, You've got Mick Taylor. You know, 456 00:26:48,160 --> 00:26:51,040 Speaker 3: you've got all all these blues players and it is 457 00:26:51,040 --> 00:26:53,800 Speaker 3: a crowded field and I'm just naming, like, you know, 458 00:26:53,960 --> 00:26:56,560 Speaker 3: three of them, but there's like twenty, you know, just 459 00:26:56,560 --> 00:26:57,040 Speaker 3: just in life. 460 00:26:57,040 --> 00:26:59,959 Speaker 1: I think there's twenty named Jimmy yeah alone. 461 00:27:00,240 --> 00:27:02,480 Speaker 3: Yeah. So so I thought, well, you know, I'm really 462 00:27:02,520 --> 00:27:04,560 Speaker 3: going to be different. You know, the the you know, 463 00:27:04,600 --> 00:27:06,119 Speaker 3: the blues and I says that they don't have a 464 00:27:06,160 --> 00:27:10,880 Speaker 3: place in my vocabulary, but but Kelsey music does. And 465 00:27:11,200 --> 00:27:13,399 Speaker 3: you're in Kelsey music. You also you have you have 466 00:27:13,440 --> 00:27:16,160 Speaker 3: bent notes, you know, you have a kind of soulful 467 00:27:16,520 --> 00:27:19,760 Speaker 3: kind of phrasing, you know. So I thought, well, I'll 468 00:27:20,280 --> 00:27:23,760 Speaker 3: I'll exploit that more than the blues. Inevitably, I've got 469 00:27:23,840 --> 00:27:26,280 Speaker 3: technique that probably comes from BB King. I mean that's 470 00:27:26,359 --> 00:27:28,040 Speaker 3: just something I learned at school. You know, there is 471 00:27:28,440 --> 00:27:30,879 Speaker 3: you know, if you're brato, you know kind is your 472 00:27:30,960 --> 00:27:40,960 Speaker 3: vibrato like his? No, But everybody's just different. But yeah, so. 473 00:27:40,960 --> 00:27:44,440 Speaker 1: You made you mentioned you mentioned bent notes in Scottish music, 474 00:27:44,560 --> 00:27:46,720 Speaker 1: Well what tones are you bending to and from? 475 00:27:46,760 --> 00:27:50,800 Speaker 3: Then? From Scottish Irish music, there's more bends in Irish 476 00:27:50,880 --> 00:27:59,359 Speaker 3: music for sure, mostly going up to the but bending 477 00:27:59,440 --> 00:28:02,199 Speaker 3: up to the seventh, right, bending up to the octave, 478 00:28:03,840 --> 00:28:09,360 Speaker 3: bending up to this to a second, I. 479 00:28:09,359 --> 00:28:14,680 Speaker 1: See, And that's more Scottish, that's more Irish and more 480 00:28:14,680 --> 00:28:17,360 Speaker 1: Irish pardan me is that is that because the instruments 481 00:28:17,359 --> 00:28:17,880 Speaker 1: they were using. 482 00:28:18,280 --> 00:28:22,080 Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, Scottish pipers now under the influencer of 483 00:28:22,320 --> 00:28:25,680 Speaker 3: Irish pipers bend notes they're they never used to. But 484 00:28:26,119 --> 00:28:28,680 Speaker 3: the bending is it's more of a vocal tradition in Scotland. 485 00:28:29,480 --> 00:28:31,800 Speaker 3: Like work songs in the Hebridies, you know, you have 486 00:28:31,880 --> 00:28:33,560 Speaker 3: you have more notes that get the kind of bend 487 00:28:33,640 --> 00:28:36,240 Speaker 3: up to the note that not much going down, but 488 00:28:36,480 --> 00:28:39,200 Speaker 3: a lot of times bending up to the note. You know. So, 489 00:28:39,200 --> 00:28:41,280 Speaker 3: so I tried to develop a different vocabulary. Really, I 490 00:28:41,760 --> 00:28:43,720 Speaker 3: didn't want to sound like all these other blues players. 491 00:28:44,400 --> 00:28:48,200 Speaker 3: I've always thought it was kind of cultural exploitation and somehow, 492 00:28:48,240 --> 00:28:51,720 Speaker 3: you know, all these white guitar players in London, you know, 493 00:28:51,760 --> 00:28:55,840 Speaker 3: but but buying chess records. Never been to Chicago, you know, 494 00:28:56,240 --> 00:28:59,200 Speaker 3: never been to Mississippi. But you know they love the music, 495 00:28:59,280 --> 00:29:01,320 Speaker 3: absoutely love the me is it? But I thought, well 496 00:29:01,360 --> 00:29:03,000 Speaker 3: is that enough? You know? Is it enough to love it? 497 00:29:03,720 --> 00:29:07,240 Speaker 3: At what point? Are you just like like a kind 498 00:29:07,240 --> 00:29:10,840 Speaker 3: of a slavish imitator, you know, a dilet hands, you know, 499 00:29:11,120 --> 00:29:14,640 Speaker 3: a colonial exploit. This is all go through my head 500 00:29:14,680 --> 00:29:16,720 Speaker 3: when I'm like, you know, eighteen years old, you know, 501 00:29:16,880 --> 00:29:19,479 Speaker 3: I thought, well, well, you know, you know, the interesting 502 00:29:19,520 --> 00:29:21,720 Speaker 3: stuff for me, like when you know, when the Yardbirds 503 00:29:22,080 --> 00:29:24,200 Speaker 3: were playing, I'm a man, you know, I thought that 504 00:29:24,240 --> 00:29:26,960 Speaker 3: this is you know, pathetic. You know when you think 505 00:29:26,960 --> 00:29:31,120 Speaker 3: of the nobility of the original version, you know than 506 00:29:31,160 --> 00:29:34,800 Speaker 3: the Muddy Waters version, It's like it's just got sexual authority. 507 00:29:35,120 --> 00:29:36,760 Speaker 3: It's such a nobility to it. 508 00:29:37,120 --> 00:29:37,280 Speaker 4: You know. 509 00:29:37,280 --> 00:29:39,400 Speaker 3: The yard Bud's just sounded like little boys, you know, 510 00:29:39,600 --> 00:29:41,800 Speaker 3: and they couldn't do the feel, you know that the 511 00:29:41,800 --> 00:29:44,000 Speaker 3: feel of the rhythm section, it was all wrong. But 512 00:29:44,040 --> 00:29:48,000 Speaker 3: you know, but I thought when the yardbirds did original songs, 513 00:29:48,040 --> 00:29:50,280 Speaker 3: it was far more interesting when they did for Your 514 00:29:50,280 --> 00:29:52,760 Speaker 3: Love or something. Thought well, this is actually a really 515 00:29:52,800 --> 00:29:55,160 Speaker 3: good pop song and the blues influences coming in, and 516 00:29:55,200 --> 00:29:57,360 Speaker 3: that's fine, you know, I thought that was a more 517 00:29:57,400 --> 00:30:01,400 Speaker 3: interesting use of influences. 518 00:30:01,560 --> 00:30:03,680 Speaker 1: In your book, you mentioned being on stage I think 519 00:30:03,800 --> 00:30:06,120 Speaker 1: just once with Jimmy Hendrix. 520 00:30:05,840 --> 00:30:07,120 Speaker 3: Oh but probably three times. 521 00:30:07,160 --> 00:30:08,000 Speaker 1: And what was that like. 522 00:30:08,520 --> 00:30:10,800 Speaker 3: We used to play this late night club called the 523 00:30:10,840 --> 00:30:14,920 Speaker 3: Speakeasy in London, and you know, birds would roll in, 524 00:30:15,720 --> 00:30:19,000 Speaker 3: you know, usually after midnight from playing out of town. 525 00:30:19,040 --> 00:30:22,160 Speaker 3: You know, they come back from Birmingham, my magister, and 526 00:30:22,200 --> 00:30:24,840 Speaker 3: they'd be hungry so that they come in and to 527 00:30:24,920 --> 00:30:28,840 Speaker 3: eat really but there was always a live band on 528 00:30:29,120 --> 00:30:31,560 Speaker 3: and there was a dance floor. We used to play there, 529 00:30:31,680 --> 00:30:33,400 Speaker 3: you know, a couple of times a month at least, 530 00:30:34,440 --> 00:30:37,440 Speaker 3: you know, and Jimmy would, you know, about one o'clock, 531 00:30:37,520 --> 00:30:39,880 Speaker 3: two o'clock in the morning, after a few drinks, would 532 00:30:40,680 --> 00:30:42,360 Speaker 3: want to get up and play. So you just sit 533 00:30:42,480 --> 00:30:46,800 Speaker 3: in with us, which was fantastic. Bit intimidating, of course, 534 00:30:47,480 --> 00:30:50,200 Speaker 3: but it was a nice experience and he was a 535 00:30:50,320 --> 00:30:52,440 Speaker 3: very sweet man in my. 536 00:30:52,440 --> 00:30:56,280 Speaker 1: Experience, did he because he played a left guitar, right. 537 00:30:56,320 --> 00:30:58,040 Speaker 3: He just take my guitar and then turn it upside 538 00:30:58,080 --> 00:31:02,320 Speaker 3: down and play with great facility either way, you know really. 539 00:31:02,120 --> 00:31:04,440 Speaker 1: Yeah, did he string his guitar that way or did he? 540 00:31:04,520 --> 00:31:05,680 Speaker 1: I'm not sure he strung it. 541 00:31:05,880 --> 00:31:08,560 Speaker 3: I mean for a left handed guitar player. Yeah, but 542 00:31:08,680 --> 00:31:12,080 Speaker 3: he could play mine basically upside you know, he turned 543 00:31:12,080 --> 00:31:15,920 Speaker 3: it upside down and figure out everything in the reverse 544 00:31:18,200 --> 00:31:19,360 Speaker 3: genius will or will. 545 00:31:19,200 --> 00:31:21,120 Speaker 1: Out he gave it back to you. Did you just 546 00:31:21,280 --> 00:31:23,840 Speaker 1: smash it and leave? That's quite something. 547 00:31:23,880 --> 00:31:25,680 Speaker 3: No, he didn't set fire to it. He didn't smash it. 548 00:31:25,720 --> 00:31:28,280 Speaker 1: But no, I was thinking, maybe you did. Well, I 549 00:31:28,320 --> 00:31:29,240 Speaker 1: can't do that anymore. 550 00:31:30,240 --> 00:31:31,880 Speaker 3: Well, think with Hendrix. I mean you could kind of 551 00:31:31,880 --> 00:31:34,520 Speaker 3: figure out what he was doing, you know, harmonically, it 552 00:31:34,560 --> 00:31:38,880 Speaker 3: wasn't that that uh, you know, it was sophisticated. There 553 00:31:38,960 --> 00:31:42,840 Speaker 3: was basically a blues play. But he could always up 554 00:31:42,880 --> 00:31:44,440 Speaker 3: the game. You know, he could always play with his teeth, 555 00:31:44,720 --> 00:31:47,080 Speaker 3: you could have sex with the guitar, you know, he 556 00:31:47,120 --> 00:31:49,480 Speaker 3: could you know, play behind his back. You know, he 557 00:31:49,520 --> 00:31:52,000 Speaker 3: had all the tricks that he'd learned, you know, playing 558 00:31:52,000 --> 00:31:55,960 Speaker 3: on the chitpland circuit in America. But yeah, it was 559 00:31:56,000 --> 00:31:58,360 Speaker 3: an interesting presence on the on the London music scene, 560 00:31:58,400 --> 00:32:02,560 Speaker 3: and I think he intimidated all those guitar players, the 561 00:32:02,600 --> 00:32:05,720 Speaker 3: Claptains of Jeff Becks, so that they were totally intimidated 562 00:32:06,160 --> 00:32:08,040 Speaker 3: because in a sense, you know that they've been learning 563 00:32:08,040 --> 00:32:11,880 Speaker 3: off records and they developed this way of playing the 564 00:32:11,920 --> 00:32:14,920 Speaker 3: blues and R and B. And then this guy turns up. 565 00:32:14,920 --> 00:32:18,120 Speaker 3: He's kind of the real thing, you know, and he 566 00:32:18,720 --> 00:32:21,600 Speaker 3: can take it to another level. You know, they're all, 567 00:32:21,720 --> 00:32:24,280 Speaker 3: you know, they're utterly intimidated. That's a great story of 568 00:32:25,520 --> 00:32:30,440 Speaker 3: I think one of Jimmy's first bigger performances in London, 569 00:32:30,800 --> 00:32:34,160 Speaker 3: and it was the week that Sergeant Pepper came out 570 00:32:34,640 --> 00:32:38,440 Speaker 3: and all the guitar players turned up, Pete Townsend, Jeff Beck, 571 00:32:38,800 --> 00:32:41,360 Speaker 3: Eric Clapton, I think Paul McCartney was there as well. 572 00:32:41,360 --> 00:32:45,360 Speaker 3: There was sitting in the audience, you know. And of 573 00:32:45,360 --> 00:32:48,680 Speaker 3: course Jimmy's opening song is Sergeant Pepper's Learning Hearts Club, 574 00:32:48,680 --> 00:32:51,840 Speaker 3: but which he learned knowing that that there'll be a 575 00:32:51,880 --> 00:32:54,440 Speaker 3: beatle in the in the audience, so of course he 576 00:32:54,520 --> 00:32:56,640 Speaker 3: like destroys it. You know. He plays it pretty straight 577 00:32:56,720 --> 00:33:01,200 Speaker 3: for about a chorus and then and all hell, let's 578 00:33:01,280 --> 00:33:08,200 Speaker 3: loosen and he goes into his stratophoric Jimmy and at 579 00:33:08,240 --> 00:33:10,440 Speaker 3: the end of the song, you know, these guitars can 580 00:33:10,440 --> 00:33:13,719 Speaker 3: pretty out of churning. He's just destroyed the tuning. So 581 00:33:13,760 --> 00:33:19,920 Speaker 3: he says, Hey, Eric, are you out there? Meany Clapton 582 00:33:19,960 --> 00:33:24,120 Speaker 3: And it's a little sort of puny for yes, and 583 00:33:24,160 --> 00:33:30,840 Speaker 3: he says, could you come and tune this for me? Oh? Yeah? Anyway? Yeah, 584 00:33:30,880 --> 00:33:33,160 Speaker 3: So yeah, he was He was the presence on the scene. 585 00:33:33,280 --> 00:33:36,480 Speaker 1: What was it about London? I guess England at that point. 586 00:33:36,520 --> 00:33:38,160 Speaker 1: I mean the Beatles and the Stones are sort of 587 00:33:38,840 --> 00:33:42,600 Speaker 1: you know, they broke the ice. Yeah, but there seemed 588 00:33:42,600 --> 00:33:46,000 Speaker 1: to be so many You were playing all the time. 589 00:33:46,120 --> 00:33:50,640 Speaker 1: There were clubs, there were colleges, and there was John Peel, 590 00:33:50,680 --> 00:33:54,760 Speaker 1: who's this huge influential figure who was recording guys like 591 00:33:54,840 --> 00:33:56,560 Speaker 1: you before anybody else. 592 00:33:57,280 --> 00:33:59,160 Speaker 3: What to start with it with John Peel? John Peel, 593 00:33:59,200 --> 00:34:02,920 Speaker 3: what was a British DJ? You kind of emerged about 594 00:34:02,960 --> 00:34:07,200 Speaker 3: sixty seven, you know, with the rise of psychedelia, flower power, 595 00:34:07,720 --> 00:34:11,239 Speaker 3: and he had a show on the BBC. They had 596 00:34:11,239 --> 00:34:12,640 Speaker 3: a couple of sho he had a late night show 597 00:34:12,880 --> 00:34:15,279 Speaker 3: and he had a show where bands would come into 598 00:34:15,280 --> 00:34:19,759 Speaker 3: the studio and record, especially for that show. So you 599 00:34:19,880 --> 00:34:21,480 Speaker 3: come in and if you had a new record out, 600 00:34:21,840 --> 00:34:25,600 Speaker 3: you'd record, especially for the BBC, four songs and they'd 601 00:34:25,640 --> 00:34:30,160 Speaker 3: be broadcast and anybody and everybody. It was on that show. 602 00:34:30,280 --> 00:34:34,080 Speaker 3: You know, Pink Floyd had come in and spent hours 603 00:34:34,120 --> 00:34:37,080 Speaker 3: trying to reproduce their latest record, which they spent you know, 604 00:34:37,239 --> 00:34:40,319 Speaker 3: months on. But they manage it, you know. And his 605 00:34:40,440 --> 00:34:43,399 Speaker 3: producer was a great guy, Bernie Andrews did just a white, 606 00:34:43,400 --> 00:34:46,520 Speaker 3: wonderful character. The engineers were great, you know, and the 607 00:34:46,520 --> 00:34:51,160 Speaker 3: BBC somehow allowed this to happen in a sense that 608 00:34:51,200 --> 00:34:54,480 Speaker 3: you know, the BBC, we was very conservative, but let 609 00:34:54,520 --> 00:34:57,359 Speaker 3: things slip through sometimes, you know, like Munty Python's flying 610 00:34:57,400 --> 00:34:59,839 Speaker 3: cycle or something. I mean, they just allowed it all 611 00:34:59,840 --> 00:35:02,600 Speaker 3: to up and because they weren't really paying attention. Yes, 612 00:35:02,640 --> 00:35:05,239 Speaker 3: so that's the radio. In terms of places to play, 613 00:35:05,280 --> 00:35:07,560 Speaker 3: there were a lot of places to play. There were 614 00:35:07,560 --> 00:35:09,640 Speaker 3: clubs first of all, you know in London you had 615 00:35:09,640 --> 00:35:13,600 Speaker 3: half a dozen clubs where everybody would play. So that 616 00:35:13,760 --> 00:35:16,920 Speaker 3: was great because that was a kind of a fallback, 617 00:35:16,960 --> 00:35:19,920 Speaker 3: you know that that's income. And also at that time 618 00:35:20,920 --> 00:35:24,840 Speaker 3: every university in London I was basically free. There was 619 00:35:25,120 --> 00:35:29,120 Speaker 3: no fees for tuition, and also they all had entertainment 620 00:35:29,239 --> 00:35:35,200 Speaker 3: budgets from the then socialist government in Britain, so they'd be booking, 621 00:35:35,280 --> 00:35:38,640 Speaker 3: you know, these incredibly anti establishment bands like Soft Machine 622 00:35:38,640 --> 00:35:41,640 Speaker 3: and Pink Floyd, The Crazy World of Arthur Brown, you know, 623 00:35:41,719 --> 00:35:45,839 Speaker 3: and fairpoorl Convention Thank you very much. So in a sense, 624 00:35:46,120 --> 00:35:49,160 Speaker 3: you know that this whole countercultural thing about was subsidized 625 00:35:49,520 --> 00:35:53,839 Speaker 3: by the British labor government. So Pink Floyd you had 626 00:35:53,880 --> 00:35:59,319 Speaker 3: probably owe their existence to Harold Wilson more than anybody else. 627 00:35:59,320 --> 00:36:00,720 Speaker 1: They should thank him on the sleeve. 628 00:36:01,080 --> 00:36:04,520 Speaker 3: I think I should have a special album dedicated to Horrid. 629 00:36:04,880 --> 00:36:07,520 Speaker 1: Because you know, there's an argument in the United States 630 00:36:07,520 --> 00:36:10,279 Speaker 1: now but protectionism and tariffs and all these things. It's 631 00:36:10,320 --> 00:36:12,360 Speaker 1: interesting to think back at a time that the government 632 00:36:12,400 --> 00:36:15,520 Speaker 1: said no, you know, BBC had to use live performances. 633 00:36:15,840 --> 00:36:18,480 Speaker 1: They didn't want taped music because they're very strong unions 634 00:36:18,960 --> 00:36:21,120 Speaker 1: colleges needed to hire live musicians. 635 00:36:21,440 --> 00:36:24,760 Speaker 3: Well, it's extruding. It was a thing that didn't last forever, 636 00:36:24,840 --> 00:36:27,719 Speaker 3: you know. Again, I mean that kind of changed. I 637 00:36:27,760 --> 00:36:29,960 Speaker 3: think the other good thing about that time was that 638 00:36:31,680 --> 00:36:33,759 Speaker 3: the record companies hadn't figured out what was going on. 639 00:36:35,040 --> 00:36:38,680 Speaker 3: You get these moments in music where the business is 640 00:36:38,760 --> 00:36:42,040 Speaker 3: lagging behind the creativity, and that's when things really pop, 641 00:36:42,080 --> 00:36:45,480 Speaker 3: you know, that's when stuff is exciting. And it took 642 00:36:45,480 --> 00:36:47,560 Speaker 3: them a while to catch up. The same thing happen 643 00:36:47,560 --> 00:36:49,399 Speaker 3: with punk, you know, but basically it took about two 644 00:36:49,440 --> 00:36:52,400 Speaker 3: years to figure out what the sex Pistoles were up to, 645 00:36:52,520 --> 00:36:54,560 Speaker 3: you know, but by which time a lot of stuff 646 00:36:54,920 --> 00:37:00,800 Speaker 3: had slipped through. So you had record companies scrambling to 647 00:37:01,360 --> 00:37:05,439 Speaker 3: sign everybody, and they pretty much did, I mean, any 648 00:37:05,520 --> 00:37:08,640 Speaker 3: any band you know, of any shape or size was 649 00:37:08,680 --> 00:37:12,319 Speaker 3: basically signed just in case, you know, in case they 650 00:37:12,360 --> 00:37:14,960 Speaker 3: were the next big thing. So that was good, you know. 651 00:37:15,400 --> 00:37:17,960 Speaker 3: So you have people making records that maybe wouldn't have 652 00:37:18,000 --> 00:37:20,080 Speaker 3: ever made records peep, like the Incredible String Band, and 653 00:37:20,160 --> 00:37:23,759 Speaker 3: they made, to my mind, fantastic records, but they might 654 00:37:23,800 --> 00:37:24,560 Speaker 3: never have been signed. 655 00:37:25,080 --> 00:37:27,880 Speaker 1: How important was live performing for you back then? In 656 00:37:28,080 --> 00:37:29,239 Speaker 1: learning what it was? 657 00:37:29,280 --> 00:37:32,120 Speaker 3: Everything? You know, I think it was and it still is. 658 00:37:32,880 --> 00:37:37,399 Speaker 3: The light Live performance is always the focus because it's 659 00:37:37,440 --> 00:37:39,920 Speaker 3: that thing that happens, is that transaction that happens between 660 00:37:40,239 --> 00:37:44,040 Speaker 3: a performer and the audience in which the performer is 661 00:37:44,200 --> 00:37:48,200 Speaker 3: almost just like like the conduit for creativity. 662 00:37:48,640 --> 00:37:50,120 Speaker 1: Is that how it feels when you're up there? 663 00:37:50,280 --> 00:37:52,120 Speaker 3: Yeah, a good day. Yeah. 664 00:37:52,239 --> 00:37:55,240 Speaker 1: You mentioned in your autobiography that I guess just because 665 00:37:55,239 --> 00:37:57,120 Speaker 1: of the kind of clubs you were playing in the demands, 666 00:37:58,000 --> 00:37:59,920 Speaker 1: you get pretty good at doing long solo. 667 00:38:00,840 --> 00:38:01,200 Speaker 3: Yeah. 668 00:38:01,520 --> 00:38:03,960 Speaker 1: I don't know if you watch the Get Back documentary, 669 00:38:04,000 --> 00:38:07,040 Speaker 1: but there's a scene that always sticks out to me, 670 00:38:07,120 --> 00:38:10,359 Speaker 1: which is George Harrison is talking about Eric Clapton. He said, 671 00:38:10,360 --> 00:38:12,080 Speaker 1: you know, he can just play and play and play, 672 00:38:12,120 --> 00:38:14,359 Speaker 1: and Harrison says, I can't do that. Yeah, he can 673 00:38:14,400 --> 00:38:16,640 Speaker 1: solo within the confines of a song. 674 00:38:17,040 --> 00:38:20,319 Speaker 3: Oh absolutely, And George would kind of figure out a 675 00:38:20,320 --> 00:38:23,080 Speaker 3: solo as well. He wouldn't be improvising a solid necessarily, 676 00:38:24,120 --> 00:38:27,000 Speaker 3: but for use improvisations. Oh yeah. But that's as the 677 00:38:27,000 --> 00:38:29,080 Speaker 3: school that I came out of. That that was what 678 00:38:29,280 --> 00:38:32,359 Speaker 3: was not only permitted at the time, but expected at 679 00:38:32,360 --> 00:38:35,080 Speaker 3: the time. So if you're a band and you had 680 00:38:35,080 --> 00:38:37,520 Speaker 3: a guitar player in the band, the guitar player will 681 00:38:37,560 --> 00:38:40,440 Speaker 3: be expected to stretch out. Yeah. I mean that's the 682 00:38:40,440 --> 00:38:42,400 Speaker 3: same thing in the States, you know, with the psychedelic 683 00:38:42,480 --> 00:38:44,800 Speaker 3: bands from San Francisco, you know the quick Silver Messenger 684 00:38:44,840 --> 00:38:47,760 Speaker 3: Service or something. You know, there was no real restriction 685 00:38:47,960 --> 00:38:51,439 Speaker 3: on how long a solo it would be. It could 686 00:38:51,480 --> 00:38:53,239 Speaker 3: be two minutes, it could be half an hour. You know, 687 00:38:53,440 --> 00:38:56,480 Speaker 3: it depended on you know, probably the you know, the 688 00:38:56,560 --> 00:38:59,239 Speaker 3: drug balance of the band, and you know, how people 689 00:38:59,239 --> 00:39:02,080 Speaker 3: were feeling and how the audience were responding. You know. 690 00:39:02,440 --> 00:39:04,400 Speaker 3: So that's just the school I came out of. So, 691 00:39:05,480 --> 00:39:08,240 Speaker 3: you know, I go and watch bands and I'd see, 692 00:39:08,880 --> 00:39:10,359 Speaker 3: you know, it's a sep of people like Jeff Beck 693 00:39:10,400 --> 00:39:12,720 Speaker 3: and playing a ten minute solo, and I think, okay, 694 00:39:13,360 --> 00:39:13,959 Speaker 3: fair enough. 695 00:39:14,120 --> 00:39:16,400 Speaker 1: And it never that was never intimidating. You always had 696 00:39:16,760 --> 00:39:17,560 Speaker 1: not the charms. 697 00:39:17,800 --> 00:39:21,480 Speaker 3: I mean, it was something that we did because maybe 698 00:39:21,680 --> 00:39:24,480 Speaker 3: we hadn't rehearsed, you know, more than an hour of music. 699 00:39:25,000 --> 00:39:28,839 Speaker 3: Sometimes you'd be playing three sets at the aforementioned speakeasy 700 00:39:28,880 --> 00:39:31,440 Speaker 3: and you think, well, okay, third set, we'll just do 701 00:39:31,480 --> 00:39:33,560 Speaker 3: a longer solo and on this particular song, you know, 702 00:39:33,880 --> 00:39:36,840 Speaker 3: that'll be that'll be half a set. So that was 703 00:39:36,880 --> 00:39:39,520 Speaker 3: another consideration. But and I just got used to it, 704 00:39:39,600 --> 00:39:42,400 Speaker 3: you know, and in a sense, you know, into the seventies, 705 00:39:42,560 --> 00:39:45,279 Speaker 3: I'm still doing the same thing. Sometimes I'm hoping the 706 00:39:45,280 --> 00:39:48,880 Speaker 3: audience isn't falling asleep, of course, But but it just 707 00:39:48,880 --> 00:39:51,040 Speaker 3: became a thing, and after a while, you know, the 708 00:39:51,080 --> 00:39:53,239 Speaker 3: audience expects it. You know that the guitar nerds and 709 00:39:53,280 --> 00:39:56,680 Speaker 3: the audience are waiting for the guitar solos. You know. 710 00:39:56,920 --> 00:39:58,799 Speaker 1: I guess it's hard for me to think of you 711 00:39:58,880 --> 00:40:02,600 Speaker 1: in that way because you are such a your songwriting 712 00:40:02,960 --> 00:40:06,919 Speaker 1: is so strong and your songs are so well constructed 713 00:40:06,960 --> 00:40:09,320 Speaker 1: as forms, and I tend to think of those players 714 00:40:10,640 --> 00:40:11,799 Speaker 1: not being great songwriters. 715 00:40:12,360 --> 00:40:14,600 Speaker 3: Understand, Yeah, but I wouldn't do it in every song. 716 00:40:14,680 --> 00:40:18,000 Speaker 3: And some songs you almost want to have a surah 717 00:40:18,000 --> 00:40:20,920 Speaker 3: that's pretty much written, you know that you refer back to. 718 00:40:21,000 --> 00:40:23,359 Speaker 3: You might do little variations on it, but it's kind 719 00:40:23,360 --> 00:40:26,279 Speaker 3: of part of the structure. But then maybe a couple 720 00:40:26,320 --> 00:40:29,960 Speaker 3: of songs in an evening you might just let go 721 00:40:30,320 --> 00:40:35,640 Speaker 3: and figure that the emotion of the song will carry 722 00:40:35,680 --> 00:40:39,759 Speaker 3: you into the instrumental passage. You know, you start off 723 00:40:40,320 --> 00:40:42,360 Speaker 3: with a lyric and the lyric has a certain emotion 724 00:40:42,440 --> 00:40:45,640 Speaker 3: to it, and you think, well, I'm you know, maybe 725 00:40:45,640 --> 00:40:49,200 Speaker 3: you don't even think about it. You just go instrumentally 726 00:40:49,680 --> 00:40:51,440 Speaker 3: and if the band goes with you, that's great, And 727 00:40:52,120 --> 00:40:55,080 Speaker 3: you know, you might play for another ten minutes, and 728 00:40:55,160 --> 00:40:58,480 Speaker 3: it's still it's still musical. You know, you're not being 729 00:40:58,520 --> 00:41:02,080 Speaker 3: self indulgent necessarily. You know you're just being carried on 730 00:41:02,120 --> 00:41:03,840 Speaker 3: the way of whatever the song is. You know the 731 00:41:03,880 --> 00:41:07,200 Speaker 3: emotion of the song, and you kind of know when 732 00:41:07,239 --> 00:41:09,280 Speaker 3: you get to the end. 733 00:41:09,480 --> 00:41:12,000 Speaker 2: One last break and we're back with Richard Thompson. 734 00:41:16,480 --> 00:41:18,160 Speaker 1: We've talked a lot about your playing. When did the 735 00:41:18,200 --> 00:41:19,279 Speaker 1: writing start for you? 736 00:41:20,800 --> 00:41:23,239 Speaker 3: Well, writing can be inspired by anything. It should be 737 00:41:23,280 --> 00:41:27,359 Speaker 3: inspired by anything. So it's good if you can have 738 00:41:27,400 --> 00:41:30,800 Speaker 3: the flexibility to start with a melody, or start with lyrics, 739 00:41:31,200 --> 00:41:34,360 Speaker 3: or start with a riff, start with a hook line, 740 00:41:34,800 --> 00:41:35,720 Speaker 3: just to get you started. 741 00:41:35,800 --> 00:41:38,799 Speaker 1: You know, some people are collectors of folk music, but 742 00:41:38,920 --> 00:41:42,080 Speaker 1: some people you learn to sort of transform it. When 743 00:41:42,120 --> 00:41:44,080 Speaker 1: did you know? Was there a song a time you 744 00:41:44,120 --> 00:41:47,640 Speaker 1: thought I found my voice? I know this is mine now? 745 00:41:48,520 --> 00:41:52,160 Speaker 3: Well, probably in the sixties. I'm playing with Fatball Convention 746 00:41:52,719 --> 00:41:59,640 Speaker 3: when we started to play traditional music with electric instruments, 747 00:41:59,800 --> 00:42:01,920 Speaker 3: and at that point I thought, okay that this is 748 00:42:03,120 --> 00:42:06,200 Speaker 3: this is where I begin in a sense, this is 749 00:42:06,280 --> 00:42:09,920 Speaker 3: this is a vocabulary I need to learn, and somehow 750 00:42:09,960 --> 00:42:11,840 Speaker 3: I'm going to stay with this and I'll add to 751 00:42:11,880 --> 00:42:14,319 Speaker 3: it and I subtract from it. But basically this is 752 00:42:14,440 --> 00:42:17,480 Speaker 3: this is going to be my musical vocabulary, and at 753 00:42:17,520 --> 00:42:19,719 Speaker 3: some point I think it gets more influenced by jazz 754 00:42:19,719 --> 00:42:22,799 Speaker 3: and by classical music harmonically. I'm not afraid to kind 755 00:42:22,800 --> 00:42:27,040 Speaker 3: of extend that vocabrary pretty much anywhere. But I think 756 00:42:27,080 --> 00:42:28,360 Speaker 3: if you've got a strong route, if you've got a 757 00:42:28,360 --> 00:42:32,680 Speaker 3: strong basis, yeah, then you're free to bring other things 758 00:42:32,719 --> 00:42:35,520 Speaker 3: into it and it's still your music. So you can 759 00:42:35,560 --> 00:42:38,680 Speaker 3: say that's a great idea in that Jamaican song, I'm 760 00:42:38,719 --> 00:42:41,239 Speaker 3: just gonna I'm going to grab that. I'm going to 761 00:42:41,239 --> 00:42:44,800 Speaker 3: incorporate it into what I do, and it won't sound Jamaican. 762 00:42:44,840 --> 00:42:47,480 Speaker 3: It I sound like what would I do. Yeah, I 763 00:42:47,480 --> 00:42:49,920 Speaker 3: think at a certain point you have a distinctive vocabulary 764 00:42:50,080 --> 00:42:52,759 Speaker 3: and songwriting as well. I mean, I mean, it's the 765 00:42:52,800 --> 00:42:55,840 Speaker 3: same point I figured out, like this, this is the 766 00:42:55,880 --> 00:42:58,239 Speaker 3: kind of song I want to write. This is a 767 00:42:58,280 --> 00:43:01,920 Speaker 3: song that has roots in where I come from and 768 00:43:02,160 --> 00:43:06,440 Speaker 3: and I'm not going to lose that. But I can 769 00:43:06,440 --> 00:43:10,080 Speaker 3: also I can change the rhythm sometimes, you know, I 770 00:43:10,080 --> 00:43:13,520 Speaker 3: can import a rhythm from somewhere else. I can use, 771 00:43:14,080 --> 00:43:17,960 Speaker 3: you know, this Indonesian something or other. You know, that's 772 00:43:18,000 --> 00:43:20,360 Speaker 3: an inspirational idea, you know, but you can kind of 773 00:43:20,400 --> 00:43:22,640 Speaker 3: make it yours. I think people have always done that. 774 00:43:23,000 --> 00:43:25,560 Speaker 1: And you know, you had this just explosion of great 775 00:43:25,600 --> 00:43:29,080 Speaker 1: songs for Fairport, and then later when you're playing with 776 00:43:29,120 --> 00:43:33,239 Speaker 1: your then wife Linda, you were writing for two really 777 00:43:33,280 --> 00:43:37,400 Speaker 1: great singers. You're writing for Sandy Danny, and then Linda 778 00:43:37,480 --> 00:43:39,920 Speaker 1: tell me about how you went about that. 779 00:43:40,800 --> 00:43:42,799 Speaker 3: Yeah, I think it is possible to write with somebody 780 00:43:42,840 --> 00:43:44,759 Speaker 3: else in mind. So you can say, I'm going to 781 00:43:44,760 --> 00:43:48,719 Speaker 3: tailor this song to someone else's voice, someone like Genesis Hall, 782 00:43:50,360 --> 00:43:54,960 Speaker 3: you know, with tailored to Sandy's key and to Sandy's 783 00:43:57,520 --> 00:44:00,200 Speaker 3: wonderful wide ranging abilities as a singer, you know, like 784 00:44:00,239 --> 00:44:02,520 Speaker 3: she could really do justice to it. So the whole 785 00:44:02,560 --> 00:44:05,040 Speaker 3: way the chorus goes and moves off to sing anything. 786 00:44:05,360 --> 00:44:09,560 Speaker 3: So I'd be quite comfortable doing something which would really 787 00:44:10,360 --> 00:44:12,960 Speaker 3: use all of our range. And for Linda, you know, 788 00:44:14,360 --> 00:44:17,120 Speaker 3: I'd write songs and then we would discuss them and 789 00:44:17,400 --> 00:44:20,279 Speaker 3: we say, okay, you should sing this one. Uh, you 790 00:44:20,320 --> 00:44:21,800 Speaker 3: know this one is it's more of a kind of 791 00:44:21,800 --> 00:44:23,960 Speaker 3: a male song where but perhaps I should be singing 792 00:44:23,960 --> 00:44:25,919 Speaker 3: this one. You know, it's it's more what we could 793 00:44:25,920 --> 00:44:27,239 Speaker 3: emotionally identify with. 794 00:44:27,360 --> 00:44:30,400 Speaker 1: Really, you know, you are considered the two of you 795 00:44:30,480 --> 00:44:33,040 Speaker 1: are considered the authors of one of the great breakup 796 00:44:33,120 --> 00:44:35,120 Speaker 1: albums of all time. But you say that's actually not 797 00:44:35,200 --> 00:44:40,240 Speaker 1: the case. That wasn't the shootout the lights was coincidental. 798 00:44:40,440 --> 00:44:44,400 Speaker 3: But I think it's a it's a journalistic lazy cliche evenstance. 799 00:44:44,480 --> 00:44:47,080 Speaker 1: In some ways, I'm a lazy journalist. That's why I 800 00:44:47,200 --> 00:44:47,520 Speaker 1: use it. 801 00:44:48,120 --> 00:44:51,480 Speaker 3: It wasn't aiming at that's you. But I'll take it 802 00:44:51,560 --> 00:44:56,239 Speaker 3: a previous you know, written reviews and stuff, and people 803 00:44:56,239 --> 00:44:58,560 Speaker 3: will like a bit of scandal anyway that don't exit, 804 00:44:58,680 --> 00:45:00,839 Speaker 3: so that they'll play that up. Plus, you know, the 805 00:45:00,840 --> 00:45:04,720 Speaker 3: songs were written, you know, a year, two years earlier 806 00:45:04,880 --> 00:45:08,279 Speaker 3: in some cases, so we've been living with the songs 807 00:45:08,280 --> 00:45:10,400 Speaker 3: for a long time. And I'm sure you know the 808 00:45:10,440 --> 00:45:14,880 Speaker 3: songs kind of subconsciously reflect on what's going on in 809 00:45:14,920 --> 00:45:17,839 Speaker 3: your lives. But you know, to me, it's just an 810 00:45:17,840 --> 00:45:21,200 Speaker 3: album of songs, some of which I still enjoy and 811 00:45:21,239 --> 00:45:23,600 Speaker 3: some of which I still perform. Yeah, it's funny when 812 00:45:23,600 --> 00:45:26,000 Speaker 3: you've got albums that are sort of you know, forty 813 00:45:26,040 --> 00:45:29,000 Speaker 3: five years old and fifty five years old and you're thinking, 814 00:45:29,000 --> 00:45:32,040 Speaker 3: oh gosh, I'm still playing this song, so it must 815 00:45:32,040 --> 00:45:35,160 Speaker 3: be a good song if you're still if you're still there. 816 00:45:35,520 --> 00:45:37,680 Speaker 1: Did you always relate to them at the time, because 817 00:45:37,800 --> 00:45:41,200 Speaker 1: you've also written story songs, You've written songs about different 818 00:45:41,239 --> 00:45:44,480 Speaker 1: people other people. Yeah, in a sense, one of you know, 819 00:45:44,480 --> 00:45:48,400 Speaker 1: your big hits, fifty two Vincent black Lightning. It's not 820 00:45:48,480 --> 00:45:50,600 Speaker 1: about you, but in some sense it must have been 821 00:45:50,600 --> 00:45:51,040 Speaker 1: about you. 822 00:45:51,360 --> 00:45:53,840 Speaker 3: Well, you know, the envy is about me. When I 823 00:45:53,880 --> 00:45:57,240 Speaker 3: was a kid, one of the neighbors had a vincent 824 00:45:57,800 --> 00:45:59,880 Speaker 3: black shadow which I thought was just the most beautiful 825 00:45:59,880 --> 00:46:03,760 Speaker 3: thing I've ever seen, this, absolutely incredible. So I remember 826 00:46:03,840 --> 00:46:07,680 Speaker 3: that when I started writing the song. No, you know, 827 00:46:07,840 --> 00:46:11,319 Speaker 3: I make things up and make up stories. That's a 828 00:46:11,400 --> 00:46:13,080 Speaker 3: valid thing to do, I think as a songwriter. 829 00:46:13,880 --> 00:46:16,920 Speaker 1: Can I ask you about a few individual songs from 830 00:46:17,000 --> 00:46:22,120 Speaker 1: your solo career Waltson for Dreamers, which is just futiful? 831 00:46:22,320 --> 00:46:23,120 Speaker 1: Do you remember writing that? 832 00:46:23,360 --> 00:46:27,120 Speaker 3: Yeah, started with the title, you know, I think just 833 00:46:27,160 --> 00:46:29,239 Speaker 3: as sometimes I just wrote right down titles, you know, 834 00:46:29,600 --> 00:46:34,200 Speaker 3: just for fun and preferably as you know, as streamer 835 00:46:34,239 --> 00:46:38,040 Speaker 3: consciously as I can. And again I think I'm making 836 00:46:38,080 --> 00:46:40,640 Speaker 3: something up, but maybe it's about me. I don't know. 837 00:46:40,920 --> 00:46:45,719 Speaker 1: Can you talk about persuasion? Which saying with your son Teddy. 838 00:46:46,120 --> 00:46:50,080 Speaker 3: Well, I read that an instrumental for a film, Oh yeah, 839 00:46:50,520 --> 00:46:54,520 Speaker 3: with a slightly different melody, and it's an Australian film. 840 00:46:54,719 --> 00:46:57,760 Speaker 3: And my friend Tim Finn, who was actually from New Zealand, 841 00:46:57,800 --> 00:46:59,399 Speaker 3: but I think he was living Australia at the time, 842 00:47:00,160 --> 00:47:02,919 Speaker 3: said I like that tune. Can I put some words 843 00:47:02,960 --> 00:47:05,759 Speaker 3: to it? So so we kind of sat down and, 844 00:47:06,680 --> 00:47:08,520 Speaker 3: you know, tried to co write a lyric, which is 845 00:47:08,520 --> 00:47:13,680 Speaker 3: a very difficult thing to do. So I said, Tim, 846 00:47:14,160 --> 00:47:17,440 Speaker 3: take it away and just run with it, because you know, 847 00:47:17,520 --> 00:47:21,080 Speaker 3: I'm struggling here to to to find some mutual experience, 848 00:47:21,160 --> 00:47:23,520 Speaker 3: so we can we can really write about So he 849 00:47:23,560 --> 00:47:26,760 Speaker 3: went away and wrote the lyric and he recorded it first, 850 00:47:26,880 --> 00:47:30,279 Speaker 3: and then I thought, well, I like this song, so 851 00:47:30,320 --> 00:47:32,480 Speaker 3: I'll do a version, And then I did a version 852 00:47:33,160 --> 00:47:37,040 Speaker 3: with Teddy and that those are very popular kind of 853 00:47:37,120 --> 00:47:41,279 Speaker 3: radio here actually, and whatever. Whenever I sit in with 854 00:47:41,400 --> 00:47:43,600 Speaker 3: with with Teddy or he sits same way with me 855 00:47:44,000 --> 00:47:46,480 Speaker 3: and we sing a few songs together, that's when the 856 00:47:46,520 --> 00:47:47,359 Speaker 3: audience wants to hear. 857 00:47:48,280 --> 00:47:52,640 Speaker 1: You reminded me of your relationship with Tim Finn that 858 00:47:53,040 --> 00:47:55,080 Speaker 1: you've done a few songs with Crowded House, and you 859 00:47:55,280 --> 00:48:00,319 Speaker 1: did a very famous guitar solo on Sister Madly. It's 860 00:48:00,360 --> 00:48:04,240 Speaker 1: just so different from everything else on that album. Unexpected. 861 00:48:04,480 --> 00:48:08,759 Speaker 3: Yeah. I did a lot of tours, were opening for 862 00:48:08,840 --> 00:48:11,960 Speaker 3: Credit House in Europe and in North America, and we 863 00:48:12,200 --> 00:48:14,920 Speaker 3: became good, good friends, you know, and I would usually 864 00:48:14,960 --> 00:48:18,560 Speaker 3: sit in on their set and we play System Madly 865 00:48:19,320 --> 00:48:21,960 Speaker 3: or something else you know at the time, and credits 866 00:48:21,960 --> 00:48:24,800 Speaker 3: are great because they'll they'll kind of do anything on stage. 867 00:48:24,840 --> 00:48:27,520 Speaker 3: I mean, they'll mess around that, they'll mess up their 868 00:48:27,560 --> 00:48:30,160 Speaker 3: set list, they don't really care, and it was always 869 00:48:30,200 --> 00:48:32,040 Speaker 3: great fun to play with them. So, you know, I 870 00:48:32,400 --> 00:48:34,840 Speaker 3: got to do the you know, the record, the System 871 00:48:34,880 --> 00:48:39,920 Speaker 3: Madly record. In fact, last May, I did a seventy 872 00:48:40,040 --> 00:48:42,840 Speaker 3: fifth birthday I just give my age away, Good Heavens 873 00:48:43,880 --> 00:48:47,000 Speaker 3: seventy fifth birthday constantly in London at the album Hall London, 874 00:48:47,040 --> 00:48:51,960 Speaker 3: and and Credit House came and played on that, so 875 00:48:52,320 --> 00:48:54,319 Speaker 3: you know, I just I just sat in with them 876 00:48:54,360 --> 00:48:56,279 Speaker 3: for a few songs, which was great, you know. So 877 00:48:56,320 --> 00:49:00,239 Speaker 3: we got to do Weather with you and Don't Dream 878 00:49:00,280 --> 00:49:04,400 Speaker 3: It's Over and Lovely, one of my favorite bands. I 879 00:49:04,440 --> 00:49:06,400 Speaker 3: think I think Neil is one of my favorite songwriters 880 00:49:07,080 --> 00:49:09,879 Speaker 3: without Squeeze on the on the bill as well, which 881 00:49:09,920 --> 00:49:13,200 Speaker 3: is my favorite British band. 882 00:49:14,080 --> 00:49:17,520 Speaker 1: You did a great solo version of Tempted Yeah, which 883 00:49:17,520 --> 00:49:19,160 Speaker 1: I would think a song that there's no way you 884 00:49:19,160 --> 00:49:21,640 Speaker 1: could do that solo, but you was. 885 00:49:22,320 --> 00:49:25,880 Speaker 3: I think we had somebody on percussion and when we 886 00:49:25,920 --> 00:49:27,680 Speaker 3: did it and I think Judith I was singing harmony. 887 00:49:27,680 --> 00:49:29,360 Speaker 3: He said so, so it can't be done. It's not 888 00:49:29,360 --> 00:49:31,280 Speaker 3: an easy song because that the harmony is really tricky. 889 00:49:33,000 --> 00:49:35,239 Speaker 3: Glenn till Brooker, who writes the melodies, you know that 890 00:49:35,280 --> 00:49:39,319 Speaker 3: he loves. He's kind of moving basslines and it's sort 891 00:49:39,360 --> 00:49:42,600 Speaker 3: of unexpected jazz. Course it could sneaking into a pop song. 892 00:49:42,840 --> 00:49:46,319 Speaker 1: The very the very complex songs it is yeah yeah, 893 00:49:46,400 --> 00:49:48,120 Speaker 1: and his guitar playing is very. 894 00:49:48,400 --> 00:49:52,799 Speaker 3: Guitar playing is complex. The lyric is complex, and the 895 00:49:52,880 --> 00:49:56,120 Speaker 3: usual rule of thumb which Squeeze ignore all the time, 896 00:49:56,360 --> 00:49:59,280 Speaker 3: but get away with it is you know, complex lyric, 897 00:49:59,680 --> 00:50:04,160 Speaker 3: simple melody, complex melody, simple lyric. That's the sort of 898 00:50:04,480 --> 00:50:07,360 Speaker 3: standard you know from the Brial building days or before 899 00:50:07,440 --> 00:50:10,560 Speaker 3: you know, but squeeze get it, get away with it 900 00:50:10,560 --> 00:50:14,880 Speaker 3: with the complex lyric complex melody. They just somehow they 901 00:50:14,920 --> 00:50:41,840 Speaker 3: do it, you know. So that's really nice kind of 902 00:50:41,840 --> 00:50:45,960 Speaker 3: shifts and lots of majors of mine minus the major stuff. 903 00:50:46,600 --> 00:50:49,440 Speaker 1: I was going to mention you did a it was 904 00:50:49,480 --> 00:50:52,759 Speaker 1: a Kennedy Center honor or something for Joni Mitchell, and 905 00:50:52,840 --> 00:50:57,800 Speaker 1: you played Woodstock. Now the rumor was you weren't supposed 906 00:50:57,800 --> 00:50:59,120 Speaker 1: to play Woodstock that night. 907 00:50:59,680 --> 00:51:03,880 Speaker 3: Yeah, the Stone Temple pilots Withdrew at the last minute. 908 00:51:04,040 --> 00:51:05,920 Speaker 3: I don't know if someone was ill or you know, 909 00:51:06,480 --> 00:51:11,160 Speaker 3: whatever reason. So I had now, which in a sense 910 00:51:11,239 --> 00:51:12,719 Speaker 3: is good. But because I didn't have time to think 911 00:51:12,760 --> 00:51:15,000 Speaker 3: about it, I thought I was, okay, well, you know, 912 00:51:15,200 --> 00:51:18,120 Speaker 3: let me pick a key. I'll do it in d 913 00:51:18,400 --> 00:51:20,840 Speaker 3: you know. And I tuned it to a modal tuning 914 00:51:20,920 --> 00:51:24,200 Speaker 3: as well. And I thought, well, I don't really know 915 00:51:24,239 --> 00:51:26,680 Speaker 3: the tune. You know, the lyrics are going to be 916 00:51:26,719 --> 00:51:30,359 Speaker 3: on the auto que, so I'll I'll get the lyrics 917 00:51:30,400 --> 00:51:32,240 Speaker 3: from there, but I kind of know them. But sometimes 918 00:51:32,280 --> 00:51:36,040 Speaker 3: you think think you know something and you don't. And 919 00:51:36,560 --> 00:51:39,200 Speaker 3: I just went went out cold, and you know, I 920 00:51:39,200 --> 00:51:40,920 Speaker 3: didn't have time to get nervous. I didn't have time 921 00:51:40,960 --> 00:51:42,560 Speaker 3: time to think about what I was doing, you know, 922 00:51:42,600 --> 00:51:44,600 Speaker 3: I didn't have time to think there's journey out there 923 00:51:44,600 --> 00:51:47,480 Speaker 3: on the balcony, So you know, sometimes you just had 924 00:51:47,480 --> 00:51:51,319 Speaker 3: to shut stuff out and concentrate. So that was good 925 00:51:51,760 --> 00:51:54,040 Speaker 3: and people seem to respond to that very well. But 926 00:51:54,400 --> 00:51:57,880 Speaker 3: basically I was just making it up, you know, honestly. 927 00:51:58,080 --> 00:52:01,440 Speaker 1: So tell me, for steners, you say it's a modal tuning, 928 00:52:01,680 --> 00:52:02,800 Speaker 1: what do you mean by that? 929 00:52:02,800 --> 00:52:04,560 Speaker 3: That look like a dad gut down d D. 930 00:52:08,080 --> 00:52:10,600 Speaker 1: Does that mean it relates to a particular mode or 931 00:52:11,640 --> 00:52:12,959 Speaker 1: when you say modal. 932 00:52:13,520 --> 00:52:16,600 Speaker 3: It's called a modal chuning. I think because you have 933 00:52:16,680 --> 00:52:18,839 Speaker 3: suspensions in it. You know, yeah, you could, you'd have 934 00:52:18,840 --> 00:52:29,120 Speaker 3: a modal tuning with a second in it, but this 935 00:52:29,160 --> 00:52:45,040 Speaker 3: one keeps saif keep that going, that's right. But for yeah, 936 00:52:45,080 --> 00:52:46,000 Speaker 3: for whatsuck, I just. 937 00:52:48,000 --> 00:52:53,279 Speaker 4: Charted. God, you was walking a lot, that's me. 938 00:52:53,360 --> 00:53:00,480 Speaker 3: Where are you going? You're telling me? So, you know, 939 00:53:01,520 --> 00:53:03,440 Speaker 3: the open tuning gave me a lot of leeway in 940 00:53:03,560 --> 00:53:05,640 Speaker 3: terms of whatever the hell I was going to sing 941 00:53:05,680 --> 00:53:08,160 Speaker 3: us a melody and how I was going to fit 942 00:53:08,200 --> 00:53:10,560 Speaker 3: the words. But I got away with it. You know, 943 00:53:10,880 --> 00:53:13,680 Speaker 3: it's not nice sometimes. Yeah, we're professional musicians here, We're 944 00:53:13,680 --> 00:53:15,080 Speaker 3: supposed to be able to do this. Kind of stuff 945 00:53:15,080 --> 00:53:17,080 Speaker 3: we're supposed to able to rise to the moment. 946 00:53:17,960 --> 00:53:20,400 Speaker 1: I did want to ask you about a couple more songs. 947 00:53:20,440 --> 00:53:23,840 Speaker 1: First of all, fifty two vincent black Lightning, which is 948 00:53:23,840 --> 00:53:28,480 Speaker 1: always a great moment in your concerts. What did what 949 00:53:28,560 --> 00:53:31,840 Speaker 1: went into that? We talked about the lyrics. It was 950 00:53:31,920 --> 00:53:36,040 Speaker 1: just envy what went into the well? It sounds like 951 00:53:36,040 --> 00:53:39,400 Speaker 1: a traditional rock and roll song in some ways, but 952 00:53:39,440 --> 00:53:41,600 Speaker 1: it's got a very different feel. 953 00:53:41,960 --> 00:53:52,200 Speaker 3: Yes, so it's I mean the tune is very very simple, 954 00:53:52,880 --> 00:53:56,759 Speaker 3: nacial melody. 955 00:53:55,200 --> 00:53:56,719 Speaker 1: Just a little bit of it. So we can tell 956 00:53:56,719 --> 00:53:57,839 Speaker 1: me what your Meandian. 957 00:53:59,520 --> 00:54:07,160 Speaker 3: Read to James, that's a fun motor by could feel 958 00:54:07,320 --> 00:54:09,800 Speaker 3: special in his social. 959 00:54:09,440 --> 00:54:15,240 Speaker 5: Life, says James, too, red boy, what's up to you? 960 00:54:16,560 --> 00:54:21,520 Speaker 4: It's an some black light in nineteen fifty two, and 961 00:54:21,640 --> 00:54:22,880 Speaker 4: I've seen you in the corners. 962 00:54:23,280 --> 00:54:24,319 Speaker 3: I'm cafes. 963 00:54:24,440 --> 00:54:28,640 Speaker 4: It seems red hair and black leather my favorite color scheme. 964 00:54:30,000 --> 00:54:37,399 Speaker 3: And they put him off behind and down to box. 965 00:54:37,120 --> 00:54:39,279 Speaker 4: Here that. 966 00:54:55,080 --> 00:54:58,600 Speaker 1: Yeah, so I see, so seize the base note. But 967 00:54:58,680 --> 00:55:03,799 Speaker 1: you're now you're using uh capo as well. But but 968 00:55:03,840 --> 00:55:05,799 Speaker 1: the tune is in G. 969 00:55:06,239 --> 00:55:11,279 Speaker 3: Well, it's it's a nominal G well, that's it's not 970 00:55:11,400 --> 00:55:16,120 Speaker 3: B flat. Yeah. Yeah, it's just kind of c G tuning. 971 00:55:16,440 --> 00:55:20,759 Speaker 3: So it works well for you know, the key of uh, 972 00:55:20,960 --> 00:55:24,399 Speaker 3: you know where am I? Okay? The brief like Cad 973 00:55:24,960 --> 00:55:30,760 Speaker 3: and the Beef, And I thought I'd invented this tuning, 974 00:55:30,840 --> 00:55:34,000 Speaker 3: of course, and I've discovered that they've been using it 975 00:55:34,000 --> 00:55:36,200 Speaker 3: in Hawaii for you know, the last hundred years. 976 00:55:36,719 --> 00:55:38,600 Speaker 1: Well, they didn't write that song, but. 977 00:55:38,440 --> 00:55:41,800 Speaker 3: But in Hawaii there's something like two hundred guitar tunings. 978 00:55:41,800 --> 00:55:45,200 Speaker 3: You know that they basically explored everything. So so it's 979 00:55:45,239 --> 00:55:47,919 Speaker 3: it's easy to be late to the game. 980 00:55:48,640 --> 00:55:49,960 Speaker 1: There's so much more I want to ask you, but 981 00:55:50,040 --> 00:55:51,800 Speaker 1: it's you've been very, very generous. 982 00:55:52,080 --> 00:55:53,280 Speaker 3: I have been incredibly generous. 983 00:55:53,360 --> 00:55:56,880 Speaker 1: Yes, you have been incredibly generous, very English, which I appreciate. 984 00:55:57,000 --> 00:55:57,400 Speaker 3: Thank you. 985 00:55:57,520 --> 00:56:00,000 Speaker 1: And what's what's next? You did a great album last 986 00:56:00,640 --> 00:56:01,319 Speaker 1: Ship to Shore. 987 00:56:01,560 --> 00:56:05,360 Speaker 3: Yeah, I keep writing stuff. I don't know where it 988 00:56:05,400 --> 00:56:08,400 Speaker 3: comes from, but I'm still writing songs, and I'm excited 989 00:56:08,440 --> 00:56:10,880 Speaker 3: about about the songs I'm writing, and I'm thinking I 990 00:56:10,920 --> 00:56:13,000 Speaker 3: want to get back in the studio and put on 991 00:56:13,160 --> 00:56:14,560 Speaker 3: another record as soon as possible. 992 00:56:14,680 --> 00:56:15,600 Speaker 1: What an absolute treat. 993 00:56:15,760 --> 00:56:16,879 Speaker 3: Thank you very much. To date. 994 00:56:19,760 --> 00:56:22,160 Speaker 2: An episode description, you'll find a link to a playlist 995 00:56:22,200 --> 00:56:25,040 Speaker 2: of our favorite Richard Thompson tracks. Be sure to check 996 00:56:25,040 --> 00:56:28,040 Speaker 2: out YouTube dot com slash Broken Record podcast to see 997 00:56:28,040 --> 00:56:30,680 Speaker 2: all of our video interviewers, and be sure to follow 998 00:56:30,760 --> 00:56:33,879 Speaker 2: us on Instagram at the Broken Record Pod. You can 999 00:56:33,880 --> 00:56:37,200 Speaker 2: follow us on Twitter at broken Record. Broken Record is 1000 00:56:37,239 --> 00:56:40,319 Speaker 2: produced and edited by Leah Rose, with marketing help from 1001 00:56:40,400 --> 00:56:43,960 Speaker 2: Eric Sandler and Jordan McMillan. Our engineer is Ben Tolliday. 1002 00:56:44,600 --> 00:56:48,560 Speaker 2: Broken Record is a production of Pushkin Industries and if 1003 00:56:48,600 --> 00:56:51,080 Speaker 2: you like this show, please remember to share, rate, and 1004 00:56:51,080 --> 00:56:53,960 Speaker 2: review us on your podcast app. Our theme music's back 1005 00:56:53,960 --> 00:56:55,800 Speaker 2: any beats. I'm justin Richmond.