Speaker 1: Of the law and Order franchises. SVU is considered especially watchable.
Speaker 2: We are the amateur detectives who kind of investigate the
Speaker 2: vicious felonies. These episodes are based on.
Speaker 3: These are our stories.
Speaker 4: Done done, Hello, and welcome to That's Messed Up sv Podcast.
Speaker 3: I'm Kara Klank and I'm Liza Traeger.
Speaker 2: We talk SVU, true crime up top, We gab, we gossip,
Speaker 2: we chit chat. Right now, it's hard to even come
Speaker 2: up with anything besides dexter to talk about. But I
Speaker 2: will prevail. So I did watch Copycat, and I've been
Speaker 2: dying to tell you.
Speaker 1: That, which ever since we had William McNamara on our podcast,
Speaker 1: I've been seeing a bunch of stuff about how like
Speaker 1: that movie got on Netflix, and I think it found
Speaker 1: like a little bit of like a resurgence, like people
Speaker 1: have been watching. That's how I watched it. I watched
Speaker 1: Netflix and it's good.
Speaker 2: I mean, it's very it's what is it, early nineties,
Speaker 2: late ladies, it's.
Speaker 1: Very overly yeah, early nineties, early nineties. Yeah, it's very
Speaker 1: of the time.
Speaker 2: Billy McNamara, former part of the Hattie, I didn't remember,
Speaker 2: like I kind of didn't recognize him.
Speaker 3: He's like a sexy killer.
Speaker 2: It would have sucked, but watching the blue like Windex
Speaker 2: that he was putting in, like, yeah, oh it.
Speaker 1: Actually came out in ninety five. So I was like
Speaker 1: fourteen when I first saw Copycat, and I was terrified.
Speaker 3: It's scary.
Speaker 1: It's scary for sure, and she doesn't want to leave
Speaker 1: her house.
Speaker 2: I mean, fucking who's Harry Connick Junior is a fucking freak.
Speaker 2: He's scarier than even Billy McNamara in it.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, oh god, yeah, fucking Harry. So you liked it.
Speaker 1: I did like it, yay, I did like it. Like
Speaker 1: it's got like young Holly Hunter kind of playing like
Speaker 1: a and Dylan type character. Dylan mcrooney, Dylan McCrone, Dylan
Speaker 1: Dermot mulrooney.
Speaker 3: You're thinking of Dylan McDermott, which.
Speaker 1: Is a classic there Day classically get Yeah. I love
Speaker 1: that Saturday Night Live schedule where it was like Dermott,
Speaker 1: mulrooney or Dylan McDermott.
Speaker 3: Well, yeah, it was good.
Speaker 2: And then I went to see Weapons alone after my spot,
Speaker 2: so like I went to an eleven ten so.
Speaker 1: Famously, as we discussed, I think two episodes ago, maybe
Speaker 1: I had seen it before you, which is crazy and
Speaker 1: you couldn't believe I'd even gone.
Speaker 3: To see it. I can't.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but it's like, you know me, when something gets
Speaker 1: to zeitgeist, I have to go see it.
Speaker 3: It's like why I saw long.
Speaker 1: Legs, Like when people are just talking talking, I'm like,
Speaker 1: I have to go see it. And then I found
Speaker 1: out like our friend Wit is in it, and I
Speaker 1: was like, oh, I gotta go see it. So I
Speaker 1: was with my family and I went, me Jared, my brother,
Speaker 1: my twin brothers, and my sister. So it's like a
Speaker 1: family outing. My brother Kevin didn't go, but we all went.
Speaker 1: And I was told that it was that violent and
Speaker 1: mostly creepy, and I was like, okay, I mean it's creepy.
Speaker 3: But there were like three.
Speaker 1: Times I had to fully put my fucking hands in
Speaker 1: my like sweatshirt, my head in my sweatshirt, like I
Speaker 1: could not watch.
Speaker 3: I definitely screamed a few times.
Speaker 2: I was talking to someone who was like, oh, I
Speaker 2: heard weapons is scarier than Barbarian, and I said absolutely,
Speaker 2: not absolutely, Oh it's not.
Speaker 1: I haven't seen Barbarian, but I saw Companion Barbarian.
Speaker 2: No Barbarian is terrifying weapons was scary, but I kept
Speaker 2: looking for something that wasn't there, and so I'm going
Speaker 2: to see it again. After reading all my articles and
Speaker 2: like watching all the YouTube interviews.
Speaker 1: I was, what was your like overall review? I really
Speaker 1: liked it and I can't wait to see it again.
Speaker 1: And I was scared. And it's kind of like Long Legs.
Speaker 2: Sorry spoiler, like you know, fast forward thirty seconds, but
Speaker 2: I like in Long Legs, I was like, it's just
Speaker 2: the devil, babe, and I like this where it's like
Speaker 2: it's a witch, it's.
Speaker 3: A psychoash like I like that. Hate that. I feel
Speaker 3: like it's like I hate that.
Speaker 1: Okay, just like Long Legs, which is a perfect like comparison,
Speaker 1: I feel like it's way more funny and fun than
Speaker 1: Long Legs.
Speaker 3: Of course.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I laughed, and I love the way it
Speaker 1: was shot and I love the actors, and I thought
Speaker 1: it was great in a lot of ways. I loved
Speaker 1: the principle. I loved the principle so much. Oh my god,
Speaker 1: the principle was amazing. I loved a lot of it.
Speaker 2: I loved that gay couple because I follow that boy
Speaker 2: on Instagram.
Speaker 3: The husband, Yeah, who is that he looks so familiar.
Speaker 3: I think it's clear. I don't know, but he was fun.
Speaker 2: But I liked their little matching shirt, like I liked
Speaker 2: their relationship.
Speaker 3: I liked that well.
Speaker 1: I was like in it to win it the first half,
Speaker 1: just like Long Legs both movies, Like until halfway through,
Speaker 1: I was like, I am so terrified, I am so invested.
Speaker 1: This movie looks awesome, Like what's happening? And then I
Speaker 1: kind of just feel like it's a weird cop out
Speaker 1: to just be like it's this witch, like it's you know,
Speaker 1: I just don't like, I just didn't think it paid off.
Speaker 1: I didn't think the payoff was like for how great
Speaker 1: they build that.
Speaker 3: I think that witch was amazing.
Speaker 1: I have grown with some of the internet parodies I
Speaker 1: have seen which have made me laugh a lot, to
Speaker 1: appreciate that that is a very cool, unique character. I
Speaker 1: just felt like there was so much more that could
Speaker 1: have been explored about, like what happens when like a
Speaker 1: community turns against someone, and like what was going on
Speaker 1: with the teacher and like this and that, and it
Speaker 1: was just kind of like they didn't know it's not
Speaker 1: actually about anything, It's just about a witch that was
Speaker 1: before we just said spoiler alert, we already did. I did.
Speaker 3: I did.
Speaker 1: Okay, okay, okay, but before we ask our film, now
Speaker 1: we need to get I have the host of Dear Movies,
Speaker 1: I Love You available to talk to us in a moment.
Speaker 2: I will say I was watching interviews with Zach Kreeger
Speaker 2: and like reading about it, and he wrote this after
Speaker 2: Trevor Moore died and like that was his good friend. Yeah,
Speaker 2: so my dared worked for him, so he was like
Speaker 2: really sad obviously and grieved, and he just started writing
Speaker 2: this and he didn't know what was gonna happen, Like
Speaker 2: this just came to him, the perspective, like the way
Speaker 2: it was shot, like the different story. Like he said,
Speaker 2: he didn't come up with what was gonna happen till
Speaker 2: page fifty that he was just writing. And I think
Speaker 2: grief is like an undercurrent of this. But I think
Speaker 2: what was haunting when you're like I didn't get the
Speaker 2: like payoff, is that like I mean, maybe it's lame,
Speaker 2: but it's like the parents never got better barely the
Speaker 2: kids talked again, and it's chilling, and like also like
Speaker 2: a whole classroom of kids disappear all the time and
Speaker 2: I just felt like the trauma of like doesn't leave us,
Speaker 2: which I guess is late like we talk about all
Speaker 2: the time.
Speaker 3: With SVU and like all of that.
Speaker 2: But yeah, I just felt like haunted by the end
Speaker 2: because I wanted like something, and then it was like, oh,
Speaker 2: the witch is dead, the evil is dead, but no
Speaker 2: one gets better. Yeah, and so that's what kind of
Speaker 2: haunted me in terms of like payoff and that little
Speaker 2: boy was just so cute. Yeah, and now and Zach
Speaker 2: was saying that it's also about substance abuse, like he's
Speaker 2: he's an alcoholic, and so you know she's an alcoholic.
Speaker 2: Josh Ban's like anger issues and then like the Cops.
Speaker 1: The Math, the He's fantastic. He was, he was, So
Speaker 1: I was invested. I liked all the characters.
Speaker 2: But yeah, so I guess addiction was the other theme
Speaker 2: that like he talks about or like that I that
Speaker 2: I pieced together by all of my little research after
Speaker 2: the movie. But before we talk to Casey, I will
Speaker 2: say I went to a regal It's pepsi and it
Speaker 2: was fucking disgusting. They didn't even have a cherry pepsi
Speaker 2: and I will never go again. To part the kids
Speaker 2: Jared took the kids to see Bad Guys Too while
Speaker 2: I was working one day in Vermont, and they were like,
Speaker 2: is pepsi okay?
Speaker 3: And he goes, it's actually not, and he got something else.
Speaker 3: He's like, I don't want that, no, because I drink
Speaker 3: diet soda.
Speaker 2: So like I did get my but I like a
Speaker 2: splash of the fun I do mostly Diya coke, and
Speaker 2: then I get a splash of the cherry and it
Speaker 2: tastes like it usually pepper root beer and so to
Speaker 2: not I had.
Speaker 3: My dia pepsy.
Speaker 1: Okay, but it was scary to walk home at night
Speaker 1: because I did see it alone and it started at
Speaker 1: like midnight, you know what I mean, And like, yeah,
Speaker 1: all right. Casey actually also an inadvertent plug for I
Speaker 1: think we've plugged it before. But in case you guys
Speaker 1: did not know, our producer Casey O'Brien has a podcast
Speaker 1: on the Exactly Right Network called Dear Movies, I Love
Speaker 1: You with Millie Cherico right am I saying her name
Speaker 1: the right way to Jericho, okay, and I love her
Speaker 1: and I love you and they talk about movies.
Speaker 3: So you guys should listen to you if you're a
Speaker 3: cinophile I do let us know.
Speaker 5: Yes, we didn't cover this episode or this movie on
Speaker 5: the show, but I with regards to the ending and
Speaker 5: it being just a witch, I completely one hundred percent
Speaker 5: agree with one of you, and that person I agree
Speaker 5: with is Lisa.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 1: I thought I saw you nodding furiously when Lisa said it.
Speaker 3: I knew who you were agreeing with.
Speaker 5: I just I but you know, like a lot of
Speaker 5: the scariest issues in life, the answer is very simple sometimes,
Speaker 5: and so I thought, I do like.
Speaker 3: That the simple answer is that someone's aunt came to
Speaker 3: town who was.
Speaker 1: A witch who puts all the kinds in the basement
Speaker 1: and fed them soup to keep them alive and can
Speaker 1: use a stick to crack and make them do whatever
Speaker 1: she want. I mean, like you're trying to tell me
Speaker 1: that's the Fermi paradox right now.
Speaker 5: I just think that in the movie world, it is
Speaker 5: the simplest exploit.
Speaker 3: I just I like it.
Speaker 1: Aucas razor, what's the what's the what's the Oukham's razor?
Speaker 1: Maybe what I meant I I liked that. I thought
Speaker 1: that was a very sad and the ending was so satisfying.
Speaker 3: I saw a.
Speaker 1: Ton of people online and you Jared loved it also,
Speaker 1: and he's a horror guy. You guys watch a lot
Speaker 1: more horror than I do. I'm just like I was
Speaker 1: so scared and so invested, and I just felt disappointed,
Speaker 1: Like I was like, it's a witch. Like I just
Speaker 1: kind of was like I was waiting for it to
Speaker 1: be something supernaturally, of course, but I just was like
Speaker 1: wee were meeting her halfway through the movie, like I
Speaker 1: had a bunch of issues with it. And then I
Speaker 1: did go online and I saw a bunch of people
Speaker 1: with the same gripe as me, Like a lot of
Speaker 1: people were saying similar like first half is fucking hundred
Speaker 1: percent and then it loses.
Speaker 2: I just kept trying to compare it to Barbarian, which
Speaker 2: wasn't fair. And I think that's why at first I
Speaker 2: was a little like because Barbarian, to me, I've never
Speaker 2: felt more seen, like everything we've reached for everything we do.
Speaker 2: I was just like, this is the female. I gotta
Speaker 2: watch it. I'm just gonna watch it. I'm gonna watch it.
Speaker 2: Fucked Kara, be ready.
Speaker 3: I am.
Speaker 5: I am a man like you, like you said, this
Speaker 5: is a man who are saying this. But I found
Speaker 5: weapons scarier. It just it got under my skin more
Speaker 5: for some reason because you're a dad and it was kid,
Speaker 5: because maybe because I'm a hashtag girl dad and the
Speaker 5: and also I just think Liza, like you were kind
Speaker 5: of speaking to all of the deeper issues of this.
Speaker 5: I just feel like it tackles a lot of very
Speaker 5: like deep personal issues that the filmmaker was having with
Speaker 5: like substance abuse and the passing of Trevor More And
Speaker 5: I don't.
Speaker 3: Know, I didn't know any of that, so like I
Speaker 3: didn't either.
Speaker 5: But no, but it got I felt I felt that
Speaker 5: from watching the movie.
Speaker 3: It just got for me. It's like, I don't know
Speaker 3: that Julia Gardner's an alcoholic.
Speaker 1: I know she's drinking to dull the pain of somebody's
Speaker 1: the entire town thinking she's a fucking witch that killed
Speaker 1: their kids.
Speaker 3: She's not the witch that killed their kids. It's a
Speaker 3: different one.
Speaker 1: Like I mean, yeah, like it could be like that
Speaker 1: wasn't set up to me. To me, it was that
Speaker 1: guy was the only addict. She was saying that the
Speaker 1: dad's anger was coming from his kid being gone.
Speaker 5: Well I think I was, I well, like the kid
Speaker 5: coming back with like the zombie parents. I feel like
Speaker 5: that's like a very child of an alcoholic experience coming
Speaker 5: back and your parents are just like who are they?
Speaker 5: I have to be the adult. I have to feed
Speaker 5: the children that are in our basement those types of things. Yeah,
Speaker 5: and so I I I felt that when watching it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, because his parents, Yeah, it's about his childhood in
Speaker 2: that way too, alcoholic parents. That jumps scared when she
Speaker 2: looks in the window. I that was really scary when
Speaker 2: they were just and when she comes out with the
Speaker 2: sys she comes out into the car. I I was
Speaker 2: about to throw up, Like I was so scared, but
Speaker 2: like I'm yeah.
Speaker 3: Like I just was like, but he.
Speaker 1: Has this little kid has a good relationship with his parents,
Speaker 1: So I wasn't thinking about it like from that, I.
Speaker 5: Know, like that's I think that's so sad about Yeah,
Speaker 5: no alcoholism.
Speaker 3: It's like they can be great people, but then they
Speaker 3: just have an addiction.
Speaker 5: I don't know.
Speaker 3: I just have a witch on who came over and
Speaker 3: their life force.
Speaker 2: But the one thing I haven't seen online that might
Speaker 2: be my own thing.
Speaker 3: That I caught. I should make a video.
Speaker 2: But the time was to seventeen and two people stayed
Speaker 2: and seventeen were taken, and I feel like.
Speaker 3: No one interesting. I don't know if that including the teacher.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I was like the kid and the teacher are
Speaker 2: left too, and then seventeen were gone and it happened.
Speaker 1: You find things in numbers, you're like a numerologist. Do
Speaker 1: I remind you of Taylor Swift? Hey?
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 1: But what I was gonna also say, here's one little
Speaker 1: thing that we thought was like you know how we
Speaker 1: like again spoiler if you're still listening, like, you know how,
Speaker 1: Like somebody writes witch on her car in red paint
Speaker 1: and we find out later it's Josh Brolin because he's
Speaker 1: got the paint in his car.
Speaker 3: Did he paint that and then also knock on her
Speaker 3: door twice? Is that? Do we think that was something Josh.
Speaker 1: Brolin's character would do, paint that and then knock on
Speaker 1: her door twice to freak her out?
Speaker 5: Like, I don't know that that that I guess I
Speaker 5: assumed that was that was him.
Speaker 1: Well, they show the paint pretty obviously, like, but then
Speaker 1: then the door knocking feel felt like but I also
Speaker 1: like that like she looked at the ribbons and you're like,
Speaker 1: maybe something's happening, and then you don't know what's gonna happen,
Speaker 1: and then when he's like, is that my ribbon?
Speaker 2: And then snap and I don't know. I like loved
Speaker 2: that and I loved.
Speaker 1: The perspective of it all, like the different vine, different
Speaker 1: chapters basically, but that love that kind of said their
Speaker 1: favorite scene to film was in the bar, which I
Speaker 1: find kind of crazy.
Speaker 3: Oh, I don't even really really remember that. The cop
Speaker 3: and the girl they like.
Speaker 1: I mean, it was wild seeing Wit like stab himself
Speaker 1: in the face with a fork over and over again.
Speaker 3: Too. I was like, oh, this is scary.
Speaker 2: The one thing I saw online that was funny was
Speaker 2: like when't like the town noticed that this little boy
Speaker 2: just can't stop buying soup, Like where are your parents?
Speaker 5: And why do you need all this? He must have
Speaker 5: had to have bought so truly so much soup.
Speaker 1: I just was also kind of like, if this witch
Speaker 1: is like trying not to get caught, why is she
Speaker 1: abducting seventeen kids, why doesn't she abduct them one at
Speaker 1: a time or something like that, Like what like you're
Speaker 1: making this huge splash, but then you're also like, we've
Speaker 1: got to get out of town and don't tell anybody
Speaker 1: about me, Like I don't know, aren' you powerful enough
Speaker 1: that you can stop him telling anybody about you or
Speaker 1: like or anybody that finds out about you.
Speaker 3: You can just, I don't know, fucking snap.
Speaker 1: Your stick at Like there was just the the witch
Speaker 1: coming in with like a bunch of rules that I
Speaker 1: don't know, like their salt on the ground. I guess
Speaker 1: that's some kind of vampire rule I'm supposed to know.
Speaker 3: I don't know.
Speaker 1: Like I just was kind of like, oh, okay, so
Speaker 1: in the end, it's just this like fucking thing that
Speaker 1: I never could have predicted.
Speaker 3: I just thought it'd be something different. Same in Long Legs.
Speaker 1: It's just the fucking like it's a lady in a
Speaker 1: fucking veil, like it's been in twelve other movies. Like
Speaker 1: I just was like, not, but but I would, I
Speaker 1: would like watch it again and see what I missed.
Speaker 1: I would, you know, like, And also I thought the
Speaker 1: ending scene I thought was crazy and funny. I laughed
Speaker 1: like I was like the ending, I was like, this
Speaker 1: is a satisfying ending, even though I didn't really like
Speaker 1: where the second act like half went. But I don't know,
Speaker 1: but I was I was proud of myself for going
Speaker 1: but I had to close my eyes at the teacher
Speaker 1: after he got at the principal got hit by the.
Speaker 5: Car, and I was gonna say, the violence is really crazy.
Speaker 5: I'm surprised somebody said that it wasn't.
Speaker 1: This is a new thing that's happening in a lot
Speaker 1: of TV and movies that I'm noticing is like skull pummeling,
Speaker 1: like just smashing someone in the face over and over
Speaker 1: again until there's nothing there but a pile of pulp.
Speaker 1: Like that did not used to be just randomly thrown
Speaker 1: into every movie. And we didn't even talk about June
Speaker 1: Diane Raphael, Oh my god, could use more of her.
Speaker 3: Yeah, love June Diane.
Speaker 2: But then when you finally see the boys point of view,
Speaker 2: I don't know, I like love and you know, like
Speaker 2: production wise and when an interview he said, like him
Speaker 2: and his DP went out or did you read did
Speaker 2: you see this? Like they went to the locations way
Speaker 2: before they started shooting, so like they planned all the
Speaker 2: shots out, so by the time filming starts they just
Speaker 2: know all their shots.
Speaker 3: They don't have to like figure it out while they're
Speaker 3: going along. Isn't that what you're supposed to do? Would
Speaker 3: you direct?
Speaker 5: No?
Speaker 3: It feels like like day before.
Speaker 2: I feel like people don't not everyone has the luxury,
Speaker 2: Like I'm on indies, right, So it's like people are
Speaker 2: figuring out the angles while we're there, and the space
Speaker 2: is there, so you're waiting. But he just said, like
Speaker 2: creativity kind of flourishes without time, and so they just
Speaker 2: went for a whole month and just like planned everything.
Speaker 1: So by the time they got there, they just like
Speaker 1: it paid off because it looked awesome. You can't say
Speaker 1: it doesn't like look awesome, like it's shot awesome.
Speaker 2: But I liked the gas station being the central kind
Speaker 2: of figure of it too. And then the other creepy,
Speaker 2: kind of deeper thing that I saw online. They all
Speaker 2: ran like and I kind of caught it before I
Speaker 2: read it, but they all run like that girl from
Speaker 2: the bomb Hiroshima, you know that like melting Girl.
Speaker 3: Was that Vietnam? Where was it was that Vietnam?
Speaker 1: But you know that like the famous thing, Like yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm sure the girl running with that's how they all
Speaker 1: the kids ran.
Speaker 3: That's the posing.
Speaker 5: I've been seeing a lot of interviews with Josh Brolin,
Speaker 5: and they were like, why did they why did they
Speaker 5: run like that? Because he was like a producer on
Speaker 5: the one too, and he was like, I have no idea.
Speaker 3: He's a script.
Speaker 1: It's in the script, Like that's what I script where
Speaker 1: it's like arms behind them in a.
Speaker 5: V Like yeah, he was, but he was like, I
Speaker 5: have no idea, and frankly, I don't want to know.
Speaker 5: Like he's like, it's scary and it works. It's effective, dude.
Speaker 1: Some of the visual stuff was like, yeah, it's like you're, oh,
Speaker 1: I think when you can point to something and go,
Speaker 1: that's from Weapons, you know what I mean? Like you're
Speaker 1: gonna see a janky, little redheaded short wig with bangs
Speaker 1: and you're like, that's the witch from Weapons. You know,
Speaker 1: Like you're just like there's iconography in that movie for sure.
Speaker 5: I also, I really appreciate hot Dogs. It made me
Speaker 5: hungry for hot dogs. I did appreciate, you know, like
Speaker 5: Josh Brolin's character is like so angry and hateful towards
Speaker 5: uh Julie Gardner's character, but then I don't know he's
Speaker 5: throughout the movie there's like she gets humanized to him
Speaker 5: and there's like a forgiveness there.
Speaker 3: I don't know.
Speaker 5: I thought that was kind of a beautiful story arc
Speaker 5: in the movie as well well.
Speaker 1: She gets humanized only after he realizes that there's something
Speaker 1: fucking sinister going on in the town because he sees
Speaker 1: the principle of the school run toward her with his
Speaker 1: eyes bulging out of head and try to.
Speaker 3: Assess its true.
Speaker 1: But that's when she becomes a human and they realize, oh,
Speaker 1: we're in this together.
Speaker 3: That's the turn.
Speaker 5: Yeah, but I feel like there was still sort of
Speaker 5: a gray area there where he's not sure what's happened.
Speaker 3: I don't know.
Speaker 1: I feel like he saw that terror in her face
Speaker 1: and it was like, oh, wait, this is something different,
Speaker 1: Like this is not a girl who kidnapped seventeen kids
Speaker 1: and did something with them.
Speaker 2: But the Principle and the Methad were probably outside of
Speaker 2: Julia Gardner and the Little Boy.
Speaker 3: I really loved them. It was good. Lots of conversation.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I mean yeah, like it's making me kind
Speaker 1: of want to see Barbarian because.
Speaker 2: You need to see Barbarian in terms of this podcast
Speaker 2: and what I think you should see it, But like
Speaker 2: be ready to close your eyes a lot.
Speaker 1: I'm definitely, I mean, there's definitely gonna be no way
Speaker 1: I can watch a lot of that stuff like I
Speaker 1: couldn't watch a lot of the beatings. I could not
Speaker 1: watch the final scene like at all. I sorry to
Speaker 1: bring up Eric Stone Street, I can't stop. But he
Speaker 1: said he doesn't read any part of the script that
Speaker 1: he's not in. He likes to be surprised, like he
Speaker 1: doesn't care, like he wants to watch it as a fan.
Speaker 3: And I get that.
Speaker 1: But and you think there's context that you get from
Speaker 1: the rest of the story, Well, it depends what the character.
Speaker 2: Like, I didn't have to read the rest of Nope,
Speaker 2: because I was just the one thing and it didn't matter.
Speaker 3: So I can go see it.
Speaker 2: Not that he's in one thing, he's in a lot
Speaker 2: of it, but it's separate from Dexter's life in this way.
Speaker 3: So oh okay, Yeah, I.
Speaker 1: Just thought that was inter I feel like in an
Speaker 1: interview saying she does the same thing, she just goes
Speaker 1: and when do I come in?
Speaker 2: But that Meth had lost thirty five pounds and since
Speaker 2: filming got switched because of the strike for a year,
Speaker 2: he kept that weight down the whole year waiting. He's
Speaker 2: the only because the whole movie got recast, he's the
Speaker 2: only original casting exist. Yeah, the movie was fully cast,
Speaker 2: and then the strike happened and no one else could
Speaker 2: do the movie outside of the meth head, who he
Speaker 2: saw in some Ben Stiller movie. Was like upset became
Speaker 2: obsessed with. But he's the only original. Josh Berlin was
Speaker 2: supposed to be Pedro pascal By Henry was supposed to
Speaker 2: be the principal. Yeah, it was like fully Julia. It
Speaker 2: was a full recast but ended up. Now I'm trying
Speaker 2: to find out who the other people were. The original
Speaker 2: was Renate Rens, who was the girl from Worst Person
Speaker 2: in the World.
Speaker 3: She was originally going to be the teacher Julia.
Speaker 1: I'm saying her name incorrectly because I think she's from
Speaker 1: Have you seen that movie Casey?
Speaker 3: Yeah, we know the main girl from that.
Speaker 1: Now.
Speaker 2: I love Julia Berner. I think she's the best. She's
Speaker 2: like one of the best.
Speaker 1: And Brian Tyree Henry was supposed to be the president,
Speaker 1: the principal. Yeah, I could see that, but I loved
Speaker 1: this guy. To me, he was the one that I
Speaker 1: am dbat Immediately I was like, who is this guy?
Speaker 4: I love you?
Speaker 3: The principal.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I hope that's like a big new thing for him.
Speaker 1: Uh Okay, Well, that's movie review morning for I've never
Speaker 1: done that. We've never full full movie review, but that
Speaker 1: movie does. It does like prompt a lot of discussion
Speaker 1: and stuff. So I mean I didn't like hate it
Speaker 1: at all. Well, you have two weeks to watch Barbarian. Okay,
Speaker 1: watch it with me, because there's no watching it. We'll
Speaker 1: still watch him with you, not watch. He's seen it,
Speaker 1: but he'll he loves to rewatch. Okay, let's see. Well
Speaker 1: start we could still Okay, let's start the episode. Go
Speaker 1: to that s messed up.
Speaker 2: I'll say one more thing for the people who did
Speaker 2: not give a shit about weapons. Okay, So I did
Speaker 2: not read the full article yet someone sent it to me,
Speaker 2: but it's in the New York Post. How four moms
Speaker 2: solved a brutal cold case murder in their free time.
Speaker 2: And so basically instead of pickleball, these four moms got together.
Speaker 2: They've written a book about it, and they solved a
Speaker 2: cold case. WHOA and the casting of these women, it
Speaker 2: looks like they would be it's like a perfect little
Speaker 2: force the woman. So it's gonna be The Carpool Detectives,
Speaker 2: A true story of four moms, two bodies, and one
Speaker 2: mysterious cold case.
Speaker 1: Okay wait, I'm like, this is basically the Fabulous Four,
Speaker 1: but you're younger.
Speaker 2: It was a fifteen year old, gruesome double homicide that
Speaker 2: like no one could figure out, and somehow these women
Speaker 2: did it.
Speaker 3: Wow.
Speaker 1: They broke a case from two thousand and five of
Speaker 1: a sixty something businessman and his wife that were found
Speaker 1: their bodies. Oh la, so we could read them. Are
Speaker 1: they in my mom group?
Speaker 3: What the fuck?
Speaker 1: I gotta look these ladies up and see if we
Speaker 1: have any mutuals because.
Speaker 2: Anybody like annoyed by women doing this or like, oh
Speaker 2: the podcasters think they could solve and then this is
Speaker 2: fucking cool. They just called family members, requesting police case records,
Speaker 2: conducting interviews with detectives, spoke to neighbors.
Speaker 3: I mean, it's cool.
Speaker 1: Our main suspect called my phone, my cell phone when
Speaker 1: I was making a PB and J sandwich for my
Speaker 1: kids and asked me why I was digging into him.
Speaker 1: I felt the blood drain out of my body. Oh
Speaker 1: my gosh, really mixing up the mom life. It's definitely
Speaker 1: for us. So I mean the other thing is too,
Speaker 1: It's like, yeah, you guys cannot you do not have
Speaker 1: the manpower to go after all old cold cases. So
Speaker 1: if people want to kind of like give it fresh
Speaker 1: eyes again, develop new leads, why not. I don't think
Speaker 1: you should like meddle, you know, yeah, like what was it?
Speaker 1: Don't fuck with the cats? Then the internet like got
Speaker 1: too crazy about some ship, but they figured it out
Speaker 1: in the end. So yeah, if you guys care, that's yeah,
Speaker 1: you might like Chuck Hogan wrote the book. Another reminder
Speaker 1: that go to that smastep live for Lisa's tour dates
Speaker 1: or under Lisa's website, and she's all over the place.
Speaker 1: And also come see a perf Night of Laughs at
Speaker 1: the Bell House on September twenty eighth. I should also
Speaker 1: mention it's a Sunday show at five o'clock. So even
Speaker 1: if you live kind of out you're like, I don't
Speaker 1: really want to be on a Sunday. I live in
Speaker 1: New Jersey. Come in, you'll be home. You'll be home
Speaker 1: by eight or nine. But yeah, let's get started, Okay.
Speaker 2: We will be doing Dare Today Season nineteen, episode sixteen
Speaker 2: premiered in twenty eighteen. And I've been wanting to do
Speaker 2: this one for a very very long time. I really
Speaker 2: like it, and this is one of the few times
Speaker 2: where like, I disagree with Benson and the majority of
Speaker 2: people I think, I don't know.
Speaker 3: Yeah, we disagree. You disagree with me too.
Speaker 1: No, I have strong opinions in this episode that I'm
Speaker 1: worried that the people.
Speaker 3: Are going to be like, don't don't have the but like,
Speaker 3: I think we have a disagree with one but okay,
Speaker 3: I can't. I don't know. I think we might have
Speaker 3: the same all right.
Speaker 2: So cutie girls on a bus after a game, and
Speaker 2: then one of the girls says making buzzer beaters like that,
Speaker 2: you'll be playing for the liberty and I'm like, s
Speaker 2: views ahead of the trends WNBA chat in twenty eighteen, yeah,
Speaker 2: like always.
Speaker 3: So the girls are talking basketball.
Speaker 2: There's a girl and a hat, there's a blonde, there's
Speaker 2: a brunette, and it's time for teen games. They see
Speaker 2: a man with a helmet and they dare like at
Speaker 2: a city bike thing, and they dare the brunette to
Speaker 2: go kiss him, and they tell Zoe she has to
Speaker 2: do it.
Speaker 3: And I hate the blonde.
Speaker 2: And I wrote I hate blonde and Hat but and
Speaker 2: then Hat goes, oh my god, she's actually doing it,
Speaker 2: and the blonde goes, this is the best day of
Speaker 2: my life, and Zoe walks up to him, taps him
Speaker 2: on the shoulder and kisses him on the cheek. The
Speaker 2: other girls scream red Parrot, Red Parrot, and they run
Speaker 2: into the community center and the music indicates, you know,
Speaker 2: time has passed. A short haired mom waits for her
Speaker 2: daughter and sees the other two girls, Lisa and Lily.
Speaker 2: We learn their names if they had seen Zoe, and
Speaker 2: they're like, no, not since we got back from the game.
Speaker 2: But she's not answering her phone, so Hat suggests maybe
Speaker 2: her battery died, and the mom rushes in and now
Speaker 2: we have a high up woman walking inside the school
Speaker 2: with Benson and Finn. She's like, I've been running the
Speaker 2: sports center for twenty years. This has never happened, and
Speaker 2: we don't have cameras, no budget, the friends, but it
Speaker 2: looks like a really nice center, so I don't know.
Speaker 2: But the friends said that the girl never came inside
Speaker 2: after the bus pulled up. So the two friends and
Speaker 2: the parents are there and the detectives start asking the
Speaker 2: girls questions. The brunettes like, we have to tell the truth,
Speaker 2: and a stern mom goes, that's right, young lady, but
Speaker 2: they're not speaking up and they clearly have something to say.
Speaker 2: So Benson sits down dangerous minds like cool girls style
Speaker 2: and is like, no one's in trouble, okay, I just
Speaker 2: need to know what happened. We need to find Zoe.
Speaker 2: She's your friend, right, and they nod yes. So she
Speaker 2: tells them about the day, you know, the girls tell
Speaker 2: them about the dare situation, and the mom screams what
Speaker 2: and Finn's like, okay, so then what and the blonde says,
Speaker 2: we ran inside and now she's gone dramatic music, and
Speaker 2: Benson's confused and fuck damn, so you know credits they
Speaker 2: approach the coach. She is caring and she know She's like,
Speaker 2: this is my worst nightmare.
Speaker 3: But then Finn.
Speaker 2: Says this with like the most monotone, no effect, blurred out,
Speaker 2: like from a manual. He just goes, it's a tough job,
Speaker 2: a lot of kids to be responsible for, like it
Speaker 2: was just perfect. And they ask about a man and
Speaker 2: she goes, no, no, no man, and she does look
Speaker 2: like a gym teacher. I will be honest, there's a
Speaker 2: very butch haircut going on. And so when they ask like,
Speaker 2: was there a man. She goes a man and it's funny,
Speaker 2: and so they didn't see the man.
Speaker 3: No one saw a man.
Speaker 2: And then she goes, I'm almost certain I accounted for everybody,
Speaker 2: and Benson screams back almost certain. She's not happy with that,
Speaker 2: like no almost here, and she sneers and spins off
Speaker 2: and walks away in anger. Christy and Rollins are with
Speaker 2: the girls outside and they give a description of the man,
Speaker 2: light brown skin like Indian, and he was by the
Speaker 2: bikes and since it's a city bike they call it
Speaker 2: bike NYC. They can like track the credit card or
Speaker 2: the accounter who took him, so they get his info
Speaker 2: and Rollins's crazy, knock knock knock for David get him out,
Speaker 2: and nobody answers, but they haven't. They don't care, so
Speaker 2: they break down the door full guns up and they
Speaker 2: search no One's home as she gets on his laptop
Speaker 2: and she's like, lucky us he has find my phone
Speaker 2: on his computer? Who doesn't have a laptop password? Do
Speaker 2: you guys not have laptop passwords?
Speaker 4: Like?
Speaker 2: In what fantasyland? Does someone not have a laptop password?
Speaker 2: That's psychotic. You're lucky you got in there, lucky he
Speaker 2: has a find my phone. Lucky you just got straight
Speaker 2: into his laptop. So we track him, which is like
Speaker 2: a fun thing. I don't think we've ever seen this before,
Speaker 2: like opening a laptop, like tracking the phone. And then
Speaker 2: the guy walks in like this is a first for me.
Speaker 2: Correct me if I'm wrong. It's hard to keep reinventing
Speaker 2: the wheel. But they are I've never seen this. So
Speaker 2: she goes, the phone is here, and David walks in
Speaker 2: right at that moment, and his jacket is as red
Speaker 2: as this herring. Okay, so he's startled nerd energy and
Speaker 2: he goes, what the hell and they put guns on
Speaker 2: him right away, and they go where's the girl?
Speaker 3: He goes, what girl?
Speaker 1: The girl?
Speaker 3: What girl?
Speaker 1: So finally Rollins gets a photo up and he explains
Speaker 1: what happens, and he goes, oh, she ran away behind
Speaker 1: her friends into the rec center and they're like, are
Speaker 1: you positive?
Speaker 3: He goes, I am positive.
Speaker 2: But they knock down his door and he's like, I
Speaker 2: can't just leave it open, and Rollin says, call a locksmith.
Speaker 3: The department will reimburse you.
Speaker 2: Yeah right, I had all my but the fire department
Speaker 2: broke my shit. Broke my shit like, fuck that Cresey
Speaker 2: and it was my Michael C. Hope poster. Okay, so
Speaker 2: Crisey called. I'm like sad, I don't happen anymore. So
Speaker 2: Creasy calls Benson, and Benson's like what the fuck? Like
Speaker 2: that means she's been in here this whole time, But
Speaker 2: I don't know why they wouldn't just search a little
Speaker 2: bit anyways, but they do a full grid search, and
Speaker 2: I hate these two dumb girls, like you're like to
Speaker 2: not to lie to everyone while your friends are missing,
Speaker 2: Like your friend is missing is so fucked up.
Speaker 3: So they're in this room.
Speaker 2: There's risers and it's a gym, but there's a stage,
Speaker 2: there's ping pong, and there's drums, so it's a really
Speaker 2: a multipurpose room. And at the top of the risers,
Speaker 2: Benson spots a shoe and runs up, and then she
Speaker 2: keeps calling for Zoe, and then she sees clothing on
Speaker 2: a railing and then she's on the ground and we
Speaker 2: see her all the way down the bleachers on the ground,
Speaker 2: splat in a broad and shorts full like and yeah,
Speaker 2: a really distorted body pose. And Finn runs the fastest
Speaker 2: I've ever seen him run, and now they have to
Speaker 2: push back all these ball cages, or like pulling these
Speaker 2: cages of balls back. She's not waking up, and Finn
Speaker 2: calls for a bus while Benson comfort Zoe.
Speaker 3: They're taking her to Mercy.
Speaker 2: They have the best pediatric I see you in the
Speaker 2: city and the mom goes in the ambulance and the
Speaker 2: teacher asks if Zoe's gonna be okay, and Benson's being
Speaker 2: a bitch. But it's like she could have done actually
Speaker 2: her count and counted everyone inside and then the thing happened.
Speaker 2: So but you know, missing kid, Benson's got to work.
Speaker 1: So finns, I just feel like they would have had
Speaker 1: dogs out before they went and tracked down a random
Speaker 1: guy on a bike, I believe, Yeah, yeah, why wouldn't
Speaker 1: they look through like even though they didn't, yeah, you
Speaker 1: would look through the bathroom, you would look yeah.
Speaker 3: Okay.
Speaker 2: So even though Benson's being a bitch, Finn is talking
Speaker 2: to the coach and he's like, do you have any
Speaker 2: idea why they would be in the gym?
Speaker 3: She goes, I have no idea.
Speaker 2: I told them to change, get what they needed from
Speaker 2: their lockers, and wait at the front door for pickups.
Speaker 2: But we're at the hospital, and thank goodness, no sign
Speaker 2: of sexual assault, so that's good. Rollins joins them, and
Speaker 2: she is fuming. She's like she was here the whole time,
Speaker 2: where her friends fucking lied to us. And Benson goes
Speaker 2: take them in and I hope they get charged, these
Speaker 2: little brats. And so Creasy is with the blonde and
Speaker 2: cement room bars and Rollins is with the hat but hatless,
Speaker 2: and they're gonna do a back and forth cutting between
Speaker 2: the rooms. And here's what we learn, Red Parrot. It's
Speaker 2: a YouTube dare game, and for a full day, you
Speaker 2: have to do everything your friends dare you to do.
Speaker 2: So Lily was first, and yesterday was Lisa and today
Speaker 2: was Zoe. At lunch, she spilled her soda and then
Speaker 2: she also had to tell the poor coach Claire that
Speaker 2: she had bad breath, so a really tough day for her.
Speaker 2: And then the cheek kiss, and then when they got
Speaker 2: back to change it was going to be her last
Speaker 2: dare and they told her to run a lap in
Speaker 2: the gym in her underwear. They thought it would be
Speaker 2: funny to throw her clothes up on the bleachers, and
Speaker 2: so she started to climb up to grab her clothes.
Speaker 2: They ran away. They're so sorry, but it was too
Speaker 2: you know, it's too late. Fuck you guys, No one
Speaker 2: cares about your little sorries. And yeah, so so like
Speaker 2: they didn't know she fell, Like did they know she fell?
Speaker 2: They ran away, like they didn't known till later that
Speaker 2: she fell, but they knew she wasn't with that guy,
Speaker 2: like either way they list So I.
Speaker 1: Don't understand why they sent the police on a wild
Speaker 1: fucking goose she because could have gone when they could
Speaker 1: have gone. Oh, last time we saw her was in
Speaker 1: the gym and that's it.
Speaker 2: They should on a juvenile like yeah, like detention centers,
Speaker 2: like these are the worst girls ever. These are the
Speaker 2: girls that grow up to be the girls in the episode,
Speaker 2: mean you know what I mean? Yeah, Like, fuck are
Speaker 2: you doing lying in this position when like you're right,
Speaker 2: they don't confirm if.
Speaker 3: They knew she fell or not, but they must have.
Speaker 2: The cops are there, she's missing, Like yeah, So they're
Speaker 2: at the hospital.
Speaker 3: The parents are stressed.
Speaker 2: Zoe's in surgery and they're trying to relieve the pressure
Speaker 2: in her brain and it's been hours. So then a
Speaker 2: stern center part blonde doctor walks out and Benson and
Speaker 2: Finn give them space, and from the parent's reaction, we
Speaker 2: realize that Zoe is dead and Benson goes, what she
Speaker 2: was breathing when I found her?
Speaker 3: Like, what the fuck? You know?
Speaker 2: She was so hopeful and she goes, yeah, well, the
Speaker 2: impact caused brain swelling and it was too severe and
Speaker 2: she died during surgery. And Benson asked if they found
Speaker 2: her earlier, would it have made a difference, and she says, no,
Speaker 2: I don't believe it, because if the brain is swelling,
Speaker 2: maybe it wasn't as swelled like they.
Speaker 3: Could have, you know, yeah, Like I can't, I don't know,
Speaker 3: maybe not. I guess I can't.
Speaker 1: I can't understand how she could make the determination that
Speaker 1: it wouldn't have mattered, like that's that that also I
Speaker 1: flag that too, Cardanov.
Speaker 2: And she but she says, I'm sure that Emmy will
Speaker 2: declare manner of death accidental. Benson shakes her head and
Speaker 2: closes her eyes, like this is so fucking sad. Finnish
Speaker 2: squinty eyed, furrowed brow, suspicious Corisian Rollins are chatting at
Speaker 2: a very retro coffee machine and they're talking about dumb
Speaker 2: things they did as a kid, and Amanda, surprised surprise,
Speaker 2: stole her dad's gun, told her friend to hold a can,
Speaker 2: and then shot at her friend and it went through
Speaker 2: her friend's sweatshirt so close. Call Stone marches in for details.
Speaker 2: The girls have been kicked out of sports camp and
Speaker 2: they have to live with this forever and all kids lie,
Speaker 2: I don't care. I would have charged them. I would
Speaker 2: have charged them for lying to the police. And it
Speaker 2: just doesn't make with an investigation. How do you know
Speaker 2: you're in trouble?
Speaker 1: How do you know you're in trouble unless they saw
Speaker 1: her fall and then they didn't do any yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1: Like so if they just left her, they'd be like, oh,
Speaker 1: we saw her in the gym, Like she was just
Speaker 1: in the gym, and then she could be in there, oh,
Speaker 1: trying to find her clothes, naked in their minds, you know, yeah,
Speaker 1: in her underwear.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: And otherwise, if they saw her fall, they were like, fuck,
Speaker 1: we got to get out of here. This is our fault.
Speaker 1: And then they sent their fucking cops with a red herring.
Speaker 1: And that's diabolical, like, you know.
Speaker 2: They belong in prison. But soone agrees that it's an accident.
Speaker 2: And just to let it go okay. Benson and Stabler
Speaker 2: meet the parents to share condolences, and the mom goes, oh,
Speaker 2: I remember Zoe's ring. I want it right now, I
Speaker 2: need it right now. Let's go get her ring. And
Speaker 2: you know, she's bandaged up on her head, which makes
Speaker 2: sense with the fall, and her mom walks over and
Speaker 2: places her hands on her. It's like a really sad scene.
Speaker 2: And then she moves the blanket down to get the ring,
Speaker 2: and suddenly we see there's an incision on Zoe's chest,
Speaker 2: like a giant incision. Mom is like, what is this?
Speaker 2: They look all the way down her waist. Benson is shocked.
Speaker 2: She goes to this blonde bitch doctor and she's talking
Speaker 2: with a kid. You know, she's a doctor for the kids,
Speaker 2: and she's being silly, and the detectives are like, get
Speaker 2: the fuck out. So she's outside. They ask about the incision.
Speaker 2: She harvested the organs. She goes two beautiful kidneys, a
Speaker 2: liver and a heart. So the parents did not sign
Speaker 2: off on this, obviously, and she knows that she's been caught,
Speaker 2: you could tell by her face. And the detectives are
Speaker 2: kind of shocked by all this. And they go where
Speaker 2: are the organs now? And a heart is being taken
Speaker 2: to Buffalo and Benson goes, they need to turn around.
Speaker 2: She goes, it's a helicopter on the roof, so she's like,
Speaker 2: she tells Finn stay with her, and Benson runs to
Speaker 2: the roof to stop this heart.
Speaker 3: As she runs, we hear Finn say, are you kidding me?
Speaker 3: To the dock. This isn't the background. I don't even
Speaker 3: know if you caught it.
Speaker 2: Like Benson's running and that's in the foreground of the seed,
Speaker 2: but in the back it's like, he just goes, are
Speaker 2: you kidding me?
Speaker 3: I just love him?
Speaker 2: This helicopter guy is so fucking hot. I am in
Speaker 2: love with him. But his IMDb photo sadly does not
Speaker 2: translate the hotness as well he does in this episode,
Speaker 2: so just just leave it at this episode, guys don't google.
Speaker 3: And he's like, what's the problem.
Speaker 2: There's a terminally ill boy and we have to save him,
Speaker 2: and Benson goes, no, this is like I need this
Speaker 2: in custody. Give me the cooler, and Benson goes, you're
Speaker 2: gonna have you know this little boy, and Buffalo is
Speaker 2: gonna have to wait for another heart. He goes, no,
Speaker 2: this heart is a miracle. This boy's been waiting for
Speaker 2: three years. And Benson is very conflicted, but it's like,
Speaker 2: what do we do?
Speaker 3: What do we do?
Speaker 2: And he goes, it's wheels up or this kid dies.
Speaker 2: It's very hard. Benson goes to the hospital church area.
Speaker 2: The parents are there and she breaks it down for them.
Speaker 2: They're so distraught and it was you know, it's done
Speaker 2: without their permission. And then when the mom hears the heart,
Speaker 2: she goes, they took her heart like she she can't
Speaker 2: even believe it, and Benson goes, yeah, it's being harvested.
Speaker 2: The word harvested is what's like the toughest harvested for transplantation.
Speaker 2: The dad is stunned. Helicopter to Buffalo. What are the
Speaker 2: parents gonna do? The mom goes, no, this is how
Speaker 2: is this happening? I can't I can't do this. The
Speaker 2: dad asks for a few days, and it's no. It's
Speaker 2: like if the helicopter does not leave within ten minutes,
Speaker 2: the heart is useless. So the mom didn't like the
Speaker 2: language of useless. Benson immediately apologizes and she knows that
Speaker 2: it was wrong, but basically it's like, do you want
Speaker 2: to save this boy's life or not. The dad goes,
Speaker 2: maybe we should, and the mom goes, it's just not right.
Speaker 2: There are pieces of her missing, and this mom is
Speaker 2: crying and Benson's walking to the cooler and the helicopter
Speaker 2: guy is pleading. He's like tellingm I denied your orders
Speaker 2: or I was already gone. You got here late, like
Speaker 2: I will take the fall for it. Benson goes, I can't.
Speaker 2: That would be committing a crime. And he's like fine,
Speaker 2: I'll commit a crime. And Finn goes, come on, like,
Speaker 2: maybe we just got here too late, and Benson is like, no, no,
Speaker 2: and she walks inside. I disagree with Benson here, so
Speaker 2: do I. I agree with the parents. It's fucked up,
Speaker 2: and I get up.
Speaker 1: But at the same time, there's a three year old
Speaker 1: boy and that the heart's not going to bring the
Speaker 1: daughter back, like yeah, like, oh my god, we just
Speaker 1: got up there and the helicopter was.
Speaker 3: Just taking off.
Speaker 2: We're so sorry because I understand where the parents are.
Speaker 2: Their kid truly just died moments.
Speaker 1: Let the cops, let the parents sue the hospital and
Speaker 1: get less. You know, I'm just saying I don't think
Speaker 1: bringing that cooler of the heart back to them, stops
Speaker 1: what happened or makes it better.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Benson fucked up here. She should have let the
Speaker 2: heart go and say or been like, fine, I'll arrest
Speaker 2: the helicopter guy when he's back.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: I didn't agree here with Benson. Blonde is in Wooden Room,
Speaker 1: but there's well should we say that this actress is
Speaker 1: named Janelle Maloney, which I'm obsessed with because it sounds
Speaker 1: so much like Jenna Maroney from thirty Rock. But she's
Speaker 1: also like in that new show The Better Sister, which
Speaker 1: is a Megan Fahey joint. Right, wait that one. No,
Speaker 1: The Better Sister is mals the Oh it's a different one. Yeah, sorry,
Speaker 1: what were you watching The Better Sister? I was, Oh, yeah,
Speaker 1: Elizabeth Banks and Jessica Bielle that one. So she's in
Speaker 1: five episodes of that. But she's also know I can't
Speaker 1: why don't I know who she was? Sheila? It says
Speaker 1: her name is Sheila. Maybe she was a cop. Well,
Speaker 1: she's also a boss on organized crime. I forgot about
Speaker 1: that too, And she's an FBS so she's in the
Speaker 1: universe of.
Speaker 3: Dick Wolf.
Speaker 1: But she's also I think well known for the West
Speaker 1: Wing and the leftovers anyway, Jenna Maroney, everybody, Janelle Maloney.
Speaker 2: Yeah, she, I mean, she's very good in this role. Ah,
Speaker 2: she's great, and we have her in wooden room. So
Speaker 2: but but it's not just it. But it's not classic
Speaker 2: woodroom blinds because there is a two way mirror, and
Speaker 2: I don't feel like all the rooms of the wood
Speaker 2: have this. So we're in a new place. She's very cold.
Speaker 2: Matter of fact, she goes, she hit her head. It's swelled.
Speaker 2: We tried everything we could, fluid crushing brainstem, that lights out,
Speaker 2: pronounced dead with neurological criteria. Yeah, the heart was beating,
Speaker 2: but that's fine, and that's actually the perfect condition for
Speaker 2: harvesting organs. I don't know why I talk like that.
Speaker 2: It was my interpretation of cold, cold and uncaring, but
Speaker 2: it sounded more like I couldn't read a robot learning
Speaker 2: to read.
Speaker 1: But that's the deal.
Speaker 3: She doesn't care about this girl.
Speaker 1: She goes, Yeah, her brain's dead, the heart's pumping. I'm
Speaker 1: taking it, and so she did. So they go.
Speaker 2: So you took it upon yourself to think the parents
Speaker 2: would consent or like what, she goes, Yeah, I did
Speaker 2: not have a convon I didn't ask to have a convo.
Speaker 2: She couldn't risk them saying no, and she had another
Speaker 2: child to consider that's alive. And Benson is stunned, and
Speaker 2: the whole episode, Benson is stunned, shocked, taken aback, like
Speaker 2: a lot out of this kind of energy. So Benson goes, oh,
Speaker 2: so a donask, don't tell, and the lady says, well,
Speaker 2: why not, and Benson goes because the law says you
Speaker 2: need to explicit consent. And she goes, the law is
Speaker 2: wrong and Benson says, that's not for you to decide,
Speaker 2: and she puts it back on Benson and goes, would
Speaker 2: you bend the law to save a life?
Speaker 3: And you know, she's quiet.
Speaker 2: But what I love about this doctor she does call
Speaker 2: Benson lieutenant and that never happens, like no one ever
Speaker 2: talked like, gives her her proper rank and Benson doesn't respond,
Speaker 2: and she goes, yeah, I thought so, so you don't
Speaker 2: strike me as an absolutist, so let's have some respect
Speaker 2: for each other. She says, I can't do what you do,
Speaker 2: and I don't think you're in a position a second
Speaker 2: guess my professional judgment.
Speaker 3: I mean, she like she is eloquent, what is it concise? Direct?
Speaker 2: Benson agrees and says, you're right, but that's not my call.
Speaker 2: So now we're in a walk and talk in the
Speaker 2: courts and it's Benson and Stone, and he's like, wait,
Speaker 2: so you're telling me she presumed consent by the parents,
Speaker 2: and Benson goes, well, no presumption, basically nothing stopping her.
Speaker 3: She doesn't care.
Speaker 2: She like cut this kid open and took the heart.
Speaker 2: And Benson doesn't think this should be in a criminal
Speaker 2: court though, And this is where I disagree. I think
Speaker 2: this woman committed a crime. So Stone goes, well, it's
Speaker 2: a felony, and Benson says, and I was really close
Speaker 2: to being a part of this felony. And he goes, oh, fuck,
Speaker 2: you stopped it.
Speaker 3: So Stone is.
Speaker 2: Pretty shocked by that, and she goes, listen, I'm still
Speaker 2: not sure I made the right call. And Stone goes, okay,
Speaker 2: so going to court or not going to court shouldn't
Speaker 2: like be used to assuade your guilt. And he suggests like, well,
Speaker 2: let's see if this was a one off thing or
Speaker 2: a pattern that she does. I'll hold off on getting
Speaker 2: an arrest warrant and I'll talk to Zoe's parents. So
Speaker 2: this is a pretty good plan and I'm really impressed
Speaker 2: with Stone here. So we're now at the Northeast organ network.
Speaker 2: Carise and Finn are on the scene and they asked
Speaker 2: how long has she been in the harvesting business? And
Speaker 2: they need a pr switch, They need a new word.
Speaker 2: They needed a new word. It should be like transition
Speaker 2: organ network. So five or six years ago she started
Speaker 2: sending pediatric organs, which are very hard to come by,
Speaker 2: and Carisy goes, and you just accept it, no questions asked,
Speaker 2: and she goes, no, no, no, All her paperwork is always
Speaker 2: in order.
Speaker 3: And what paperwork?
Speaker 2: She lists a few different forms, but then she says
Speaker 2: consent forms ding, ding, ding, So that means her paperwork
Speaker 2: is not in order. Right, you're saying her paperwork's an order,
Speaker 2: but she did not ask for consent. So this bitch
Speaker 2: is yeah, felony, and the woman is shocked. She goes, wait,
Speaker 2: is the doctor and her investigation and they say yes,
Speaker 2: and the woman goes, well, we can't afford to lose
Speaker 2: this doctor. And Christy goes, okay, well we still need
Speaker 2: the records. So we're back at the precincts for a
Speaker 2: group meeting and basically with this organization, thirty five children's
Speaker 2: organs were harvested, but only four families remember signing a form,
Speaker 2: so that means thirty one families plus Zoe's family didn't
Speaker 2: even know their children's organs were taken. But there's a
Speaker 2: completed form for each kid. So like this is out
Speaker 2: of the Teresa Judais playbook. You can't can't for signatures,
Speaker 2: you can't forge signatures, and there's a completed one for
Speaker 2: each kid. They all have the same handwriting, and this
Speaker 2: is like the dumbest part of this episode. So they go,
Speaker 2: you know, the sevens all have a European cross on them,
Speaker 2: and Rollins goes, yeah, and you know she did study
Speaker 2: in Oxford for two years, Like who cares?
Speaker 1: So she was in two years she learned how to
Speaker 1: cross her sevens. I do a cross on my seven
Speaker 1: I do too a lot. Yeah, yeah, no Oxford here.
Speaker 2: So so Stone is saying that's forgery at a minimum.
Speaker 2: So it's like, yeah, organs are not that they like,
Speaker 2: you can't fucking do these.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Stone goes to Zoe's parents' house, who are planning their
Speaker 2: daughter's funeral, and he's like, sorry, but I have to
Speaker 2: loop you in and what we found out about this woman?
Speaker 2: And Stone is here chatting, and now the families are
Speaker 2: considering filing separate charges for forgery. And the mom responds, like,
Speaker 2: what else is there to even consider? She cut my
Speaker 2: daughter's chest and ripped out her still beating heart, and
Speaker 2: she violated the law, Like what are the questions? I
Speaker 2: don't understand there's actually like I don't there's no question here.
Speaker 3: She broke the law. It is what it is like.
Speaker 2: And he tries to talk about ethics, and the mom goes,
Speaker 2: don't just don't you think it's ethical? You think it's
Speaker 2: ethical that she stole my child's body parts? What gave
Speaker 2: her the right to do that? A medical degree? And
Speaker 2: the dad is raging, like, she had no right to
Speaker 2: do that to us, to Zoe. You bring them to
Speaker 2: the hospital to take care of them, and you trust
Speaker 2: them with your baby and they give her to a vulture.
Speaker 2: So we see the doc is scrubbing up and criesye
Speaker 2: and Rollins are there, and she says, oh, so the
Speaker 2: bird camps are pressing charges and Cariesy says, that's the
Speaker 2: least to your problems, and she's so mad at the
Speaker 2: cuffs and it's like, you are not special, You're a
Speaker 2: little gog complex, Like who do you think you are?
Speaker 3: Yeah, you're getting the cuffs.
Speaker 2: So she's like, well, once this nonsense has cleared up,
Speaker 2: lots of children are gonna need my help. And so
Speaker 2: we're again group projects at the precinct time. We need
Speaker 2: an accurate we need like a quick way to talk
Speaker 2: about brainstorming group chats at this at the station. I
Speaker 2: need like a word that we all agree upon, because
Speaker 2: every time I just like cannot keep saying the center precinct.
Speaker 2: We're back at the office, We're back talking. We're back
Speaker 2: in a group meeting brainstorm. I can't we need a
Speaker 2: word for it.
Speaker 3: What is it? The gang's all in the scrum. I
Speaker 3: don't know what to tell you.
Speaker 1: The scrum why sprum is like in rugby, But I
Speaker 1: like the first part. It's huddle, a huddle. The gang's
Speaker 1: in the huddle. They're in the huddle. I knew, I
Speaker 1: knew you were going to come.
Speaker 3: Through with this.
Speaker 1: So so we're in the huddle and I'm so happy.
Speaker 3: I'm like so relieved. I'm so relieved.
Speaker 2: O God, Okay, so okay, So we're talking about all
Speaker 2: these forgeries and what's wild? No financials, no money. She
Speaker 2: donates a lot of money to charity. Actually, but the
Speaker 2: jail time is seven years per count, so it's thirty
Speaker 2: two counts seven years each. Finn pipes up, that's a
Speaker 2: lot of time over some paperwork. And if Zoe's parents
Speaker 2: speak like yeah, double digits upstate and Carisy goes, no way,
Speaker 2: they're really gonna do this, like we can't do this,
Speaker 2: and Stone goes, listen, I can't blame them, And Caristy goes,
Speaker 2: I think she's a saint, forgery or not? And Rollin
Speaker 2: asks if he'd be okay with some doctor ripping a
Speaker 2: heart out of their kid, and Cariese says two doctors
Speaker 2: signed off that she was dead, and Rollin gets riled
Speaker 2: up and screams. So hospital bureaucrats get to decide what
Speaker 2: parents do with their dead child's body parts, and fin
Speaker 2: is with caries and doesn't see the big deal. Dead
Speaker 2: is dead. Stone doesn't care what everyone thinks. He cares
Speaker 2: about the law. So if you have if you don't
Speaker 2: have consent, you can't do it. Isn't that what we talk? Yeah,
Speaker 2: rape anything you need consent. It's a felony. And I agree,
Speaker 2: So coorch March twelfth, the mom's on the stand. She's
Speaker 2: in shock. She's like, this is the worst day of
Speaker 2: our lives. She's like she can't stop crying, and like
Speaker 2: one day you kiss your daughter goodbye, and the next
Speaker 2: day she can't even you know, she can't even finish
Speaker 2: her sentence. They look at the form and it's not
Speaker 2: her handwriting and not her signature. So that's evidence enough
Speaker 2: for the charges. Like how is there even a defense?
Speaker 2: Like I don't understand. So Nicki stains is the defense attorney.
Speaker 2: And her point is that Benson and the doctor agreed
Speaker 2: to donate, and Benson was even trying to convince the parents, right,
Speaker 2: And the mom goes, yeah, and it was very upsetting
Speaker 2: and it had only been a few minutes andes Zoe
Speaker 2: was dead, and she's like, it was a few minutes
Speaker 2: and Benson was already laying a guilt trip on me.
Speaker 2: And she says, we were in no shape to make
Speaker 2: that decision and the damage was already done. And I
Speaker 2: just don't think it's right that a doctor gets to
Speaker 2: rip apart my baby's heart out of her chest without asking,
Speaker 2: and the doctor does not give a fuck her face
Speaker 2: is like annoyed, and get me back to work.
Speaker 3: Let me go pull the plugs out of more kids.
Speaker 2: And so they put the little boy up there and
Speaker 2: he did not get out her in a sack.
Speaker 3: I wait, I don't think she's pulling plug.
Speaker 1: Because this is like this whole thing reminds me of
Speaker 1: like my dad when I was younger, when I got
Speaker 1: my license, my dad was like, don't check organ donor
Speaker 1: because this is my dad's like whole worldview is He's like,
Speaker 1: if they find you on the side of the road dying,
Speaker 1: they won't work as hard to save you because they
Speaker 1: can save ten people with your organs. And I was
Speaker 1: always like, that's so cynical, Like, and I've been an
Speaker 1: organ donor since I was sixteen, Like I disagree with that,
Speaker 1: Like I don't think she's pulling the plug on anyone,
Speaker 1: like specifically, Well.
Speaker 2: At the end, I thing, we'll see, we could just
Speaker 2: we can reconvene this discussion at the end.
Speaker 3: Okay, okay, because this happens when she's on Yeah. Okay.
Speaker 2: So so now we're on the stand and it's the
Speaker 2: little boy who did not get the heart in Buffalo.
Speaker 2: He has HCM, which is a heart disease where the
Speaker 2: muscle is too thick and doesn't pump right. So he's
Speaker 2: gonna die if he doesn't get a new heart, and we.
Speaker 3: Needed to bring him.
Speaker 1: We needed to bring him in a car, probably six
Speaker 1: hours to New York.
Speaker 3: Like we had to bring him in. It's also to around.
Speaker 3: It's also irrelevant.
Speaker 2: You can't forge documents, like it doesn't matter what it's
Speaker 2: for you, Like I don't I don't understand the I
Speaker 2: get why the defense wants to do this. I don't
Speaker 2: think this witness should have been allowed. It's irrelevant. It
Speaker 2: sayesn't matter. I mean, they have to do what they
Speaker 2: have to do. But so anyways, he's like, yeah, you know,
Speaker 2: I was going to get a new heart. We went
Speaker 2: to the hospital, I got ready for operation, and the
Speaker 2: new heart never came, so I had to go back home.
Speaker 2: And he's sad. Obviously he's been on the waiting list
Speaker 2: for three years. Stone has no questions and he wishes
Speaker 2: him the best. So we're in the hallway.
Speaker 1: We do not usually get that no questions for this witness,
Speaker 1: and I think I speak for everyone when I say
Speaker 1: we wish you all the best.
Speaker 2: Stone tells the parents like damn, that must have been
Speaker 2: hard to listen to and it was, and the dad says, wait, fuck,
Speaker 2: maybe we should drop our case. The mom says no,
Speaker 2: and he goes, maybe we should have listened, like he's
Speaker 2: getting guilt, and Stone goes, no, you shouldn't have to
Speaker 2: make that choice. That's what this is all about. So
Speaker 2: the dad is now defending the doctor like she just
Speaker 2: wanted to save lives, and then he sees that the
Speaker 2: boy and the parents are walking out of court, and
Speaker 2: the dad wants to talk to them, and the mom goes,
Speaker 2: don't you dare and I'm on the mom's side here,
Speaker 2: but the dad runs up and introduces himself, and the
Speaker 2: other dad sharply responds, yeah, we know who you are,
Speaker 2: and the mom says, sorry for your loss, and he
Speaker 2: wants forgiveness, but they don't want to listen to him,
Speaker 2: so they all separate. Dramatic music plays, so we're back
Speaker 2: in court and the doctor's on the stand. She has
Speaker 2: been a Mercy hospital for twelve years and has done
Speaker 2: nineteen hundred surgeries approximately, so the mortality rate for those
Speaker 2: surgeries is three percent, which is half the national average
Speaker 2: for pediatric surgeries. Niki Stain says, so, what is the
Speaker 2: hospital's policy on organ harvesting, and she says, listen, I'll
Speaker 2: be honest, I do not follow my hospital's policy. And
Speaker 2: she's saying this on the stand, which is admitting to guild.
Speaker 2: She says, parents usually don't agree to organ donation, and
Speaker 2: so unless a parent explicitly says no, I presume consent.
Speaker 2: And that is I guess, the law in over twenty
Speaker 2: European countries, but not in the US. And the doctor
Speaker 2: thinks that's embarrassing. But I think that's so crazy. Like
Speaker 2: if I, god forbid.
Speaker 1: Had to make this decision and someone came to me
Speaker 1: and said, hey, your child's heart could save another child
Speaker 1: that is waiting for it, I would be like, take it,
Speaker 1: let's go. I would give it. Hopefully you don't have
Speaker 1: to deal with I hope I never have to make
Speaker 1: that decision. But I have different feelings about like the
Speaker 1: body after it's dead, and I think that absolutely you
Speaker 1: need consent. But I don't know why she didn't just
Speaker 1: like try to frame it to people like, yeah, she
Speaker 1: doesn't care. Yeah, but if she didn't care, she probably
Speaker 1: would have done it after they said no. I mean,
Speaker 1: she doesn't care what the parents think she doesn't care. Yeah,
Speaker 1: she said that, she admitted it.
Speaker 2: She goes, there's a chance they'll say no, So I'd
Speaker 2: rather do it without telling them.
Speaker 3: I just feel like you could.
Speaker 1: Give them a chance to say yes, because I think
Speaker 1: a lot of parents would. But she says that they don't. So, yeah,
Speaker 1: she doesn't care. She doesn't care what anyone thinks. And
Speaker 1: so but then so she's it's what we're talking about now.
Speaker 2: So then she goes, she doesn't ask parents because she
Speaker 2: thinks it's distasteful to ask a parent to make that
Speaker 2: choice at the worst moment of their lives. And so
Speaker 2: I guess it's classier to just steal them. So Nikki
Speaker 2: is being very theatrical and going through all the files
Speaker 2: of all the successful surgeries that have happened through organ donation,
Speaker 2: and Stone puts a stop to it, like we get
Speaker 2: the point. So now Stone and Benson meet up at
Speaker 2: the bar and she regrets her choice on the roof,
Speaker 2: She's like, this isn't police business. So Stone tells a
Speaker 2: story about his dad. What else is new? And it's
Speaker 2: like his number one part of his personality is like
Speaker 2: my dad, my dad, my dad. Okay, but anyways, but
Speaker 2: we like him, we love we love Stone. He has
Speaker 2: three sons and plays baseball. So he tells a story
Speaker 2: that he was at the hospital and he went to
Speaker 2: go get coffee and while he was getting coffee downstairs
Speaker 2: asking for half and half is when his father died.
Speaker 2: And Benson says, that must have been hard, and he says,
Speaker 2: it would have been a lot harder if I came
Speaker 2: back and his organs had been harvested. And so she says,
Speaker 2: you should have seen the parents like looks on their faces.
Speaker 2: And he says, you did the right thing. And she goes,
Speaker 2: but what if the boys dies? Then what you know?
Speaker 2: Then I did the right thing. Who gives a shit?
Speaker 2: And Stone goes, nothing is easy when it's not, you know,
Speaker 2: black and white, but nothing is gray for this doctor,
Speaker 2: Like she must have known this is going to catch
Speaker 2: up with her. Benson thinks, like she's so hardcore, doesn't
Speaker 2: even make money for this, like something like she's putting
Speaker 2: her life on the line for this, for just this,
Speaker 2: And so that gets Stone thinking and he go and
Speaker 2: so he's like, Okay, well what about all these charity donations.
Speaker 2: Maybe all these charity things are actually funneling money for
Speaker 2: organs or something. So Benson's going to check it out,
Speaker 2: and we're in court hallway. Rollins comes to Stone in
Speaker 2: a hurry with a file that the doctor donates fifty
Speaker 2: thousand dollars a year to the Children's Heart Procurement Fund
Speaker 2: and she dedicates it to and Rollins points in the
Speaker 2: paper and we're getting a cliffhanger till court. So the
Speaker 2: doctor's back up there and Stone goes, so, you admit
Speaker 2: to forgery, right, He says, you're above the law. You
Speaker 2: think you're above the law. She goes, well, when the
Speaker 2: law is wrong, and when the law is harmful, we
Speaker 2: have to find the courage to disobey it. And he's like,
Speaker 2: so you think you're an activist and she says sure.
Speaker 2: Then he goes, so you're a champion for sick children.
Speaker 2: She says, that's what pediatric surgeons do by definition, and
Speaker 2: Stone jumps to you had a sun name Benjamin. He
Speaker 2: died from a heart condition in two thousand and six,
Speaker 2: and yes, that is true, and he was on the
Speaker 2: list for a new heart that he never got and
Speaker 2: his death is what inspired her to get into this,
Speaker 2: and that's what motivates you to break the law. And
Speaker 2: she goes, no, saving lives is why I do it,
Speaker 2: and he pushes, in your zeal to save lives, you'd
Speaker 2: harvest an organ from a child who is not legally deceased,
Speaker 2: and Nikki objects and calls it out rageous and that
Speaker 2: that would be homicide, and he goes, well she and
Speaker 2: Nikki moves to strike, and the judge agrees to strike
Speaker 2: it but allows the question. And her answer is that
Speaker 2: a second physician needs to certify death on any patient,
Speaker 2: so it's not just her judgment, and why would she
Speaker 2: let one child die to save another? That wouldn't make
Speaker 2: sense to her. He says, but did you try hard
Speaker 2: enough to save Zoe Burtkamp's life? She goes, excuse me,
Speaker 2: and he asks again, did you try hard enough to
Speaker 2: save Zoe Burhamp's life? And she babbles in doctor talk
Speaker 2: and he goes, no, you're not answering my question. If
Speaker 2: that was your Benjamin on the table at that moment,
Speaker 2: would you have really cracked open his sternum and cut
Speaker 2: out his heart? And she pauses. She finally has some
Speaker 2: sort of thought in her eyes, and she doesn't answer.
Speaker 2: She will not answer that because she knows she fucking knows,
Speaker 2: she fucking knows that she would not have done that,
Speaker 2: and she would have tried to save her son, and
Speaker 2: she was happy to let like not try further.
Speaker 1: So I didn't read it like that. I didn't really
Speaker 1: read it like that. I thought it was like she.
Speaker 2: Should have said sure, she should have said sure, I'll
Speaker 2: break open my son's sternam before I know for sure.
Speaker 1: No, I think she was saying, like I certified she
Speaker 1: she was dead, so did another doctor. And then basically
Speaker 1: it was like, but would you have, like at the
Speaker 1: moment right after death, like without being asked, like cracked
Speaker 1: him open and like harvested his organs, like basically put
Speaker 1: yourself in the position of these parents. I didn't get
Speaker 1: the vibe that she didn't try to save him her
Speaker 1: Oh I didn't.
Speaker 3: I didn't get that vibe.
Speaker 2: I was if it wasn't Zoe on that table and
Speaker 2: it was Benjamin, there's no way she would have not
Speaker 2: tried harder to save Zoe's life. She'd been in contact
Speaker 2: with this boy. She knows this doctor, you know what
Speaker 2: I mean, he knew the doctor. I took it as
Speaker 2: she knows. She didn't try hard enough because if it
Speaker 2: was her son, she wouldn't have announced.
Speaker 3: Him dead that fast. I did not.
Speaker 1: It wasn't even an hour in the hospital, you know
Speaker 1: what I mean? Yeah, I think that basically what he's
Speaker 1: let parents say bye the kid, You don't. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: think that's what he's saying, though, is like she was dead,
Speaker 1: she did what she could to save her.
Speaker 3: Was like the brain swelling could not have helped. She
Speaker 3: was going to be a vet like.
Speaker 1: But at the same time, it's like we could have
Speaker 1: asked the parents, like do you want to keep her
Speaker 1: alive on machines? You know what I mean, like because
Speaker 1: she was because they could have heart was still pumping
Speaker 1: because of.
Speaker 3: Her heart was still pumping.
Speaker 1: That means she could have been left decision. But I
Speaker 1: don't think that she didn't try to save her. I
Speaker 1: don't think Zoe was ever going to come back.
Speaker 4: Oh.
Speaker 2: I think she would have tried harder if it was
Speaker 2: her kid. And you're right though, the heart was bumping
Speaker 2: like pumping, so she could have put Zoe on life
Speaker 2: support given time. I mean, my friend when he donated
Speaker 2: to Organs, he was held for four or five days
Speaker 2: on life support so he could donate. So this is bullshit.
Speaker 2: She didn't care about the parents. She didn't want to
Speaker 2: risk them saying, no, she didn't care what they thought.
Speaker 2: She wanted that heart and she didn't care she the
Speaker 2: heart could have kept pumping.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I just would say, like most I would just
Speaker 1: I think that's a little bit unrealistic and real Like,
Speaker 1: I don't think that doctors are like thinking, hmm, if
Speaker 1: I let this girl go, I can.
Speaker 2: She I don't think doctors are. She is and that's
Speaker 2: what he proved in court. That has nothing to do
Speaker 2: with saving lives. Lots of pediatric surgeons save lives. She
Speaker 2: has a fucking heart on. I mean, she probably makes
Speaker 2: half a millial year. Let's say she's like a New
Speaker 2: York very maybe less.
Speaker 1: What do you think four hun gram She's donating fifty
Speaker 1: five thousand dollars to just.
Speaker 2: One of the pediatric centers. She's donating tons of money.
Speaker 2: This is not I don't I'm not saying doctors. I
Speaker 2: think she's a criminal. I think she's getting paid for it. No,
Speaker 2: I'm just saying it's not like I think doctors are
Speaker 2: like letting people die to harvest or organs for kids
Speaker 2: in Buffalo, But I think she is because I think
Speaker 2: she's a criminal. M Okay, Yeah, I don't think it's
Speaker 2: like I'm an organ downer. I don't think people would
Speaker 2: like to be like I didn't think you were going.
Speaker 1: To be so I thought this was like one of
Speaker 1: those what I.
Speaker 3: Mean, I like disagree with well.
Speaker 1: I thought it was gonna be one of those episodes
Speaker 1: where it's like, oh, it is tough, because like you
Speaker 1: could save someone with this, but like you.
Speaker 2: Know, she couldn't have later, so she could have two
Speaker 2: days later, she could have let the parents say bye
Speaker 2: to the kid kept driving.
Speaker 1: In this situation, but we don't know about the other
Speaker 1: thirty one, the other thirty one. It's like the kids
Speaker 1: could have died on the table, and it's like you
Speaker 1: got to get those organs out now, or their organs,
Speaker 1: but you have.
Speaker 2: Not gotten consent for thirty how But she also says
Speaker 2: it's prime when the heart is still beating, so like
Speaker 2: she likes that, what do you mean? Like to her,
Speaker 2: it was like, oh, the heart is still beating, this
Speaker 2: is great, take it out, but it's like it would
Speaker 2: have been beating four hours from now.
Speaker 3: It definitely was.
Speaker 1: She made it definitely her like obsession, her obsession exactly
Speaker 1: like I think she did let children die early. I
Speaker 1: don't think, but I definitely as I was watching the episode,
Speaker 1: was like, ooh, this is tough. Like I wasn't like,
Speaker 1: I was like, sure, she's forging, but like we support
Speaker 1: people all the time who break the law for reasons
Speaker 1: that we think are righteous.
Speaker 3: Do you know what I mean?
Speaker 1: We do so like I was like I was the
Speaker 1: whole time I was watching. I was kind of like,
Speaker 1: I mean, yeah, she definitely should have them. I would
Speaker 1: be furious beyond belief if I wasn't asked. But like
Speaker 1: it was also interesting, did we say the part about
Speaker 1: how she said in twenty seven European countries, if they
Speaker 1: if no one specifies that they don't want it, that's
Speaker 1: implied consent.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I did say it. That's crazy.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 1: For some reason, I thought in the crime would probably
Speaker 1: dive in, but well, I had crime is a little
Speaker 1: bit different. The crime's not exact, the crimes a little
Speaker 1: bit different. I took this bitch's facts, I go twenty countries.
Speaker 3: That's that.
Speaker 1: Like I can't look it up at all, but like
Speaker 1: it is, yeah, I don't know, I don't well, I
Speaker 1: mean it's like I think it's like more of a
Speaker 1: it's like an existential argument of life.
Speaker 2: But it's not because the heart was bumping so like
Speaker 2: for this one. Yes, so she's a.
Speaker 3: Sort of she could have been on life support for
Speaker 3: a while, like and they.
Speaker 1: Could have prolonged half vision while she was on life support.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and said by like, I don't know, I think
Speaker 2: it's fucks. I think, yeah, I don't think all doctors
Speaker 2: are this, but I think she had like a personal
Speaker 2: heart on because of her son. And I also think
Speaker 2: if it was her son, she wouldn't have just been like, oh,
Speaker 2: that's that to rip about.
Speaker 3: There's no why.
Speaker 1: But we also think that Benson should have flown away
Speaker 1: with the heart if it's out her house. Correct. If
Speaker 1: it's out, it's out. Benson made the wrong decision. Yeah,
Speaker 1: for sure. I think I mean, you're wrong. I don't
Speaker 1: think all of this is black and white.
Speaker 2: Like I always think Benson should have let it go
Speaker 2: because there's nothing else to do, and Benson breaks the
Speaker 2: law all the time.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Like we can get this doctor disbarred. We can
Speaker 1: get or not disbarred, like medical license pulled or whatever,
Speaker 1: Like we could see the hospital, Like there's ways you
Speaker 1: can like punish the crime. That's happened, But like, why
Speaker 1: let that heart just go? Are they putting it back
Speaker 1: into Zoe to have her buried with it? Like, I
Speaker 1: don't know, it's I don't know.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but I feel for the parents not being able
Speaker 2: to make a rational decision in the moments after their
Speaker 2: daughter is dead.
Speaker 3: Totally. But that like the point that I wasn't thinking.
Speaker 1: Of when I was watching this is Yeah, their hearts
Speaker 1: at least this patient and probably others patients hearts were
Speaker 1: still beating. Then let's keep them on life support until
Speaker 1: the parents can like take a day decide what to do.
Speaker 1: Like I would definitely be swayed by the idea of
Speaker 1: my child's like legacy helping another child live, you know,
Speaker 1: like Jerry Orbach and his eyes. What did you ever
Speaker 1: ride the subway where they would always have signs about
Speaker 1: how Jerry Orbach gave his eyes He donated his eyes
Speaker 1: when he died. No, and some two people can see
Speaker 1: because of Jerry Orboch. I think he didn't donate his
Speaker 1: cornea to one of them. It's like it was on
Speaker 1: the subway all the time. We would like always choke
Speaker 1: about Jerry Orbach's eyes. No, someone is seeing through Lenny
Speaker 1: Briscoe's eyes at all times.
Speaker 2: But anyway, go on, there's just a little bit left.
Speaker 2: So yeah, but she sighs. Someone keeps looking at her.
Speaker 2: She's not answering. She will not answer. So now Nikki's
Speaker 2: doing her closing statement. It's videos of kids alive, Like,
Speaker 2: I get it. These kids didn't have organs, now they
Speaker 2: have organs. And Stone is like, listen, checked off to
Speaker 2: be an organ donor on your license, and the government
Speaker 2: didn't make that choice for you, and neither did a
Speaker 2: doctor because it's your body. And he calls her a zealot,
Speaker 2: and that is motivated by her own personal tragedy, and
Speaker 2: she stole Zoe's right of that with the strike of
Speaker 2: a pen, knowing what she was doing was wrong, and
Speaker 2: while her heart is still beating, she cut her open
Speaker 2: and took it out. Nikki is saying that the ends
Speaker 2: justify the means, but whose ends? So that's that she's
Speaker 2: imposing her own morality. She did this by playing god.
Speaker 2: And the jury has reached a verdict and guilty of
Speaker 2: forgery in the second degree on all thirty two counts.
Speaker 2: The parents look at each other. The judge is like,
Speaker 2: damn difficult case.
Speaker 1: And bensons, I just can't believe that forgery carries a
Speaker 1: seven year sentence. That's like rape, that's great. Like a
Speaker 1: lot of rapes we've seen have been like five years,
Speaker 1: you know. Yeah, Like you can hurt somebody and get
Speaker 1: three years, you know, Yeah, that.
Speaker 2: Is weird'd ah gosh. Benson is in her office talking
Speaker 2: to Lucy about mac and cheese and full awful Jesus Christ.
Speaker 2: So Stone knocks knocks, Benson asks what's on his mind,
Speaker 2: like the doctor's sentencing, what's up. Benson is like, wait,
Speaker 2: you're seriously going to ask for jail time, and he says,
Speaker 2: we need to set an example. And she goes for
Speaker 2: all the progressive minded pediatric surgeons out there, and she says,
Speaker 2: don't be a bully, and she is going to lose
Speaker 2: her medical license. That's the worst punishment she can ever imagine.
Speaker 2: And he says, I just got this job and I
Speaker 2: don't want to look like a pushover, and Benson goes,
Speaker 2: or maybe you're overcompensating for you know, not being in
Speaker 2: the room when your father died. So now as they're talking,
Speaker 2: Rollin's knock knocks and the boy from Buffalo did die
Speaker 2: an hour ago, and I know what they're doing because
Speaker 2: they let us see him and he was fucking cute.
Speaker 2: He was a cute kench that's a gut punch. Stone
Speaker 2: looks at Benson. Benson looks away. She starts to cry
Speaker 2: and sits down on her desk because it is her fault.
Speaker 2: She is so sad and that's stickwolf baby. I think
Speaker 2: the doctors should go to jail, but I think Benson
Speaker 2: should have let the heart go and those are my.
Speaker 1: But I think the doctors should go to jail for
Speaker 1: maybe like a few years, not like three seven times
Speaker 1: thirty two.
Speaker 3: Like I don't think she needs life. I don't either.
Speaker 1: She's they're gonna be able to please, like they're gonna
Speaker 1: if Teresa Judice goes for a year. I mean, this
Speaker 1: woman should get at least a year for forgery.
Speaker 2: But yeah, you think the doctor should have taken them
Speaker 2: and it's fine that she was forging and it's all good.
Speaker 1: No, I guess I just think like the thirty one
Speaker 1: other families like didn't even know, and she saved all
Speaker 1: these lives and like they don't even know. So I
Speaker 1: was just kind of like, you know, maybe her work
Speaker 1: is sort of more but I don't know the ins
Speaker 1: and outs of like if they're lying they're dead on
Speaker 1: the table, or if the heart's still beating, that's different
Speaker 1: to me. Like I'm just kind of like if if
Speaker 1: a body is out like done, I don't want to
Speaker 1: be buried, you know what I mean, Like I want
Speaker 1: to be cremated. Like I don't like believe in like
Speaker 1: the whole all the body stuff that happens after you're dead.
Speaker 1: I just think somebody dies, they're gone, and like I
Speaker 1: have no attachment to the body anymore. Like I have
Speaker 1: been to open casket funerals and I'm just like, no,
Speaker 1: I'm good, that's not the person I know, you know,
Speaker 1: Like that's just a body like and so I just
Speaker 1: feel like if we can help other people with that.
Speaker 1: I mean, I've always been an organ downer. I believe
Speaker 1: in it. So I don't know, but I agree consent
Speaker 1: hugely important. I would be furious if someone just cut
Speaker 1: open a loved one of mine. And I just think
Speaker 1: it's like that woman seems like she could so easily
Speaker 1: sit down and go my son died because he didn't
Speaker 1: get a heart. It would save this child. Here's a
Speaker 1: picture of Benjamin. Like you know what I mean, Like,
Speaker 1: I don't even care. What kind of like emotional blackmail
Speaker 1: you have to use get the consent, you know, Yeah
Speaker 1: she didn't care. Yeah she didn't care. But okay, let's
Speaker 1: get into the true crime because it's a little bit wild.
Speaker 1: So first of all, this this is listed in a
Speaker 1: couple places as being based on the death of Isabella Grosso,
Speaker 1: and this feels like a part of SVU history that
Speaker 1: I cannot believe.
Speaker 3: We don't know.
Speaker 1: Isabella Grosso was a seventeen year old high school student
Speaker 1: and actress who was in the SVU episode Flight. If
Speaker 1: you remember the very first episode where the SVU took
Speaker 1: a crack at jeff Jeffrey Epstein.
Speaker 3: She plays one of their.
Speaker 1: Remember it's like the guy's name is Jordie and he
Speaker 1: has a girl who's like his Galaine Maxwell, who like
Speaker 1: collects all the girls for him, and she one of
Speaker 1: these this girl played one of the girls who like
Speaker 1: he was trafficking. And then she eventually like later lies
Speaker 1: and says, no, my friend actually sexually assaulted him. Like
Speaker 1: you can tell that she's lying because she's a trafficked
Speaker 1: girl and they're probably offering her money. But she's like
Speaker 1: on her way to France on a private jet. She's
Speaker 1: like on a screen when they talked to her. I
Speaker 1: remember this part of this episode specifically, and she had
Speaker 1: shot the episode of SVU and then sadly a three
Speaker 1: weeks before the episode came out. On January tenth of
Speaker 1: twenty eleven, Isabella was tragically killed in a car accident
Speaker 1: on Long Island. She was driving a convertible two thousand
Speaker 1: and three Mercedes Benz. Her car crossed the double yellow
Speaker 1: line and collided with a nineteen ninety eight Ford explore.
Speaker 1: My high school car was a ninety four and that
Speaker 1: was driven by an unidentified seventeen year old male, and
Speaker 1: this is what happened. So records show that the ambulance
Speaker 1: arrived within five minutes, and they there was a decision
Speaker 1: made I don't know by who to airlift her, and
Speaker 1: the helicopter was like a little bit delayed getting there.
Speaker 3: And then it.
Speaker 1: Took the helicopter forty six minutes to get Isabella to
Speaker 1: the hospital.
Speaker 3: And why wouldn't the ambulance just take her? What the fuck?
Speaker 3: I don't know.
Speaker 1: I don't know who made the call. It's really hard
Speaker 1: to find in the articles. Her parents Michael and Linda
Speaker 1: Grasso were sure that she would have survived if the
Speaker 1: medical helicopter hadn't taken so long to get her to
Speaker 1: the hospital.
Speaker 3: Kind of sip.
Speaker 1: This is like where it ties into like the little
Speaker 1: girls sending the cops on a goose chase, Like maybe
Speaker 1: they could have gotten her to the hospital earlier and
Speaker 1: would have had a different outcome. And because I think
Speaker 1: she was speaking in the ambulance, like she was talking
Speaker 1: or not in the ambulance when ems first got to her,
Speaker 1: and so they were sure she would have survived. They
Speaker 1: don't understand why she wasn't just taken by ambulance. ABC
Speaker 1: Eyewitness News from the New York area that I grew
Speaker 1: up with. They actually timed the trip. They went out
Speaker 1: at the same time at seven thirty one, and they
Speaker 1: made it from the scene of the crash to the
Speaker 1: hospital in twenty seven minutes and fifty two seconds, which
Speaker 1: is eighteen minutes faster than the than the helicopter. So
Speaker 1: that eighteen minutes could have meant a lot, you know.
Speaker 1: So the County air medical vibe, Yeah, and Nasau County's
Speaker 1: air medical guidelines specifically state quote a patient is to
Speaker 1: be airlifted to a trauma center when transportation time quote
Speaker 1: can be decreased by more than fifteen minutes, So technically
Speaker 1: they violated their own protocols in airlifting her. And I
Speaker 1: have no I mean, I'm sure they're not going to
Speaker 1: say and the call was made by but like, I
Speaker 1: don't know who made that call, if it was like
Speaker 1: EMS workers or police or whatever. But the parents claim
Speaker 1: the county was neglectful and to blame for her zeath,
Speaker 1: they filed a notice to sue the county. They accused
Speaker 1: Nassau County of covering it up, and they kept requesting
Speaker 1: information that the county was just not giving them. And
Speaker 1: then I found I tried to find what happened, and
Speaker 1: I found one legal document about the case, but it
Speaker 1: seemed to only be about the judge denying the defendant's
Speaker 1: request for summary judgment. So the hospital or the EMS
Speaker 1: like organization requested summary judgment, which we've talked about before,
Speaker 1: and the judge said no. But that's all I found legally, Like,
Speaker 1: I couldn't find, so I have a feeling that they
Speaker 1: probably settled out of court. And I don't actually know
Speaker 1: what happened with this, but I didn't know that like
Speaker 1: an actress from an episode of SVU died and then
Speaker 1: kind of an episode was based on it, or you know,
Speaker 1: like she.
Speaker 3: Never saw her episode, which is so sad, you know,
Speaker 3: really sad aspiring actress. I don't know why she crossed
Speaker 3: the double yellow line either.
Speaker 2: I wonder what happens with the weird like if the
Speaker 2: ambulance was there, like why not get in there and
Speaker 2: start ta getting care. I feel like mentally people think
Speaker 2: helicopters are faster. I think people are always like aft airlift,
Speaker 2: you know, like I don't know, I really don't know why,
Speaker 2: but they fucked up, and it's like the hospital maybe
Speaker 2: in court could prove oh, the eighteen minutes didn't make
Speaker 2: a difference because her situation was that she didn't have
Speaker 2: brain swelling.
Speaker 1: She went into cardiac arrest. That was her situation while
Speaker 1: she was in there. So but here is what this
Speaker 1: is more based on. Okay, the Biomedical Tissue Services body
Speaker 1: part theft scandal. Okay, let me introduce you to a
Speaker 1: man named doctor Michael mastro Marino. He was a dental
Speaker 1: surgeon in New Jersey who surrendered his license after he
Speaker 1: became addicted to drugs. After that he got a license
Speaker 1: to sell human tissue. Which this is a little bit
Speaker 1: different than the episode because human tissue is anything, it
Speaker 1: is not a major organ. So this does not involved hearts, kidneys, lungs.
Speaker 1: This is stuff like tendons, ligaments, skin, bones, heart valves, corneas.
Speaker 3: Hello, Jerry Orbach.
Speaker 1: Apparently the industry of tissue donation is not well known
Speaker 1: or understood compared to organ donation, and therefore it is
Speaker 1: not heavily regulated. Like with organs, tissue is donated, so
Speaker 1: there's not actually like I mean, maybe like a black market,
Speaker 1: like people say there's a black market for like organs,
Speaker 1: but so like even though you don't get money for
Speaker 1: the actual tissue, you can charge facility fees. Do you
Speaker 1: have to move that heart from one place to that
Speaker 1: bone from one place to another, transportation fees, procurement fees,
Speaker 1: and then once the parts are then turned into medical products,
Speaker 1: like I was reading all this stuff, like people's bones
Speaker 1: can be grown ground down into like a dust that
Speaker 1: can be used in dental procedures. Like there's all kinds
Speaker 1: of ways we use tissue in other medical procedures. It's
Speaker 1: kind of gross, but it's true. It's happens and so
Speaker 1: that's another thing like once now that it's turned into
Speaker 1: a medical product, then it's being purchased. So there's money
Speaker 1: flowing through the whole concept of tissue donation. So when
Speaker 1: NPR reported on this story and this industry in twenty twelve,
Speaker 1: they said it was a one billion dollar a year
Speaker 1: industry tissue tissue like donation, and I would say harvesting,
Speaker 1: and I tried, but I can't find more recent numbers
Speaker 1: than that, but it would be safe to say that
Speaker 1: in the last thirteen years it's gone over a billion.
Speaker 4: You know.
Speaker 1: Mastro Marino's company was called Biomedical Tissue Services in Fort Lee,
Speaker 1: New Jersey, and apparently business was booming because this was
Speaker 1: reported reported as a four point six million dollar operation
Speaker 1: that he was running. Master Marino, like the doctor in
Speaker 1: this episode, went around the whole permission thing. And what
Speaker 1: he did was he struck up deals with funeral homes
Speaker 1: in New York, New Jersey, and Pennsylvania and paid them
Speaker 1: one k per body. He would, also, liked the doctor
Speaker 1: in this episode, fake paperwork that confirmed consent from the
Speaker 1: deceased or their families.
Speaker 3: Now this might feel different to you.
Speaker 1: Because these people are in a funeral home ready to
Speaker 1: be buried.
Speaker 3: It's different.
Speaker 1: But what's fucked up that this guy did is he
Speaker 1: would take tissue from people that shouldn't have been used,
Speaker 1: like people who had died from AIDS or cancer, and
Speaker 1: he and had other like illnesses like hepatitis and stuff,
Speaker 1: and he would fake the paperwork to look like they
Speaker 1: died of something else. Famously, in this case, he actually
Speaker 1: got the tissue from the body of a British journalist
Speaker 1: named Alistair Cook, who hosted PBS's Masterpiece Theater. So this
Speaker 1: is a person my parents are definitely fans of. This
Speaker 1: man died of cancer in two thousand and four, and
Speaker 1: Master Marino changed Cook's age from ninety five to eighty
Speaker 1: five on the paperwork in the documentation, and also said
Speaker 1: that he died of a heart attack rather than lung
Speaker 1: cancer that had spread to his bones, like you might
Speaker 1: want to use bone fragments or whatever, or of bones
Speaker 1: that have been affected by cancer.
Speaker 3: So he also this is crazy detail.
Speaker 1: Sometimes in the bodies he would remove bones and replace
Speaker 1: them with white plastic pipes like home Depot style. Well, actually,
Speaker 1: fuck home Depot Low's style. They would just put these plastic,
Speaker 1: cheap pipes that you use for plumbing and be like
Speaker 1: replacement and then just sew the leg back up.
Speaker 3: So pretty fucked up.
Speaker 1: But I mean, yeah, people have been grave robbing since
Speaker 1: the ancient old old days, but this is more super
Speaker 1: fucked up because this guy's like running a ring.
Speaker 3: He's making a ton of money.
Speaker 1: In two thousand and six, after an eighteen month investigation
Speaker 1: by the FDA and the Brooklyn DIA's office and.
Speaker 3: Wired than the FDA.
Speaker 1: Oh drug okay, yeah, food and Drug administration because these
Speaker 1: are being turned into medical equipment or like medical product,
Speaker 1: so I guess that's under their jurisdiction. But a one
Speaker 1: hundred and twenty two count indictment came from the big
Speaker 1: eighteen month investigation and was served on Michael mas Marino
Speaker 1: as well as three funeral home directors, Joseph Masselli, Lee Crissetta,
Speaker 1: and Christopher Aldorossi. Among the charges were enterprise corruption, body stealing,
Speaker 1: unlawful dissection, opening graves, forgery, and other charges to which
Speaker 1: they all initially pleaded not guilty. Prosecutors claim they stole skin,
Speaker 1: bone and other tissues from up to one thousand bodies.
Speaker 1: The DA called it so many I know. The DA
Speaker 1: called it quote something out of a cheap horror movie.
Speaker 1: The FDA had to ask hospitals after they discovered this,
Speaker 1: to contact hundreds of patients who had received tissue from
Speaker 1: Master Marino's company between four and five and have them
Speaker 1: tested for aids, hepatitis, and syphilis. And they said that
Speaker 1: the risk of contracting these diseases from tissue was low
Speaker 1: but unknown, and people did contract things. Seven additional funeral
Speaker 1: directors were added to the case and they all pleaded
Speaker 1: guilty and agreed to cooperate with the investigation, and the
Speaker 1: prosecutors in New Jersey thought, or maybe it was Brooklyn,
Speaker 1: the prosecutors in this case thought that there were definitely
Speaker 1: way more funeral directors attached, but I don't know if
Speaker 1: they could find all of them. Eventually, Master Marino changed
Speaker 1: his plea and pleaded guilty to body sealing, reckless endangerment,
Speaker 1: and enterprise corruption in his plea, So maybe they dropped
Speaker 1: some of the other like grave opening and dissection charges
Speaker 1: and he just pleaded to those. In two thousand and eight,
Speaker 1: at age forty four, he was sentenced to a minimum
Speaker 1: of eighteen years and a maximum of fifty four years
Speaker 1: in prison, which is such a wide range, like what
Speaker 1: gets decided.
Speaker 3: Like how many organs, how many attised?
Speaker 1: But I know when it's like eighteen to twenty five,
Speaker 1: like it's eighteen to fifty four, Like how do they
Speaker 1: decide which one he's gonna do? That was his sentence
Speaker 1: eighteen to twenty to fifty four. It ended up not mattering.
Speaker 1: It ended up not mattering because he died in prison.
Speaker 1: But at his sentencing, forty four year old Dana Ryan
Speaker 1: spoke quote his sick, disgusting and appalling actions, all in
Speaker 1: the name of greed, have devastated my family because Dana
Speaker 1: got hepatitis B that she received from some stolen body
Speaker 1: parts that were used on her lower spine.
Speaker 3: Operation.
Speaker 1: Master Marino told the court and victims and relatives, I
Speaker 1: am sorry for the emotional pain I have caused. But
Speaker 1: also he talked to NPR and said I misunderstood, so like,
Speaker 1: I don't know how.
Speaker 3: Guilty this guy felt.
Speaker 1: He died in twenty thirteen at a hospital in New
Speaker 1: York from metastatic liver cancer that had spread to his
Speaker 1: brain and bones, which feels sort of like ironic because
Speaker 1: like you wouldn't be able to probably harvest his tissues.
Speaker 1: But yeah, so not quite as close to the actual thing. Well,
Speaker 1: my thing is the helicopter guy in our episode.
Speaker 2: Do you think he works for the organ people or
Speaker 2: is he just like a helicopter guy that only like.
Speaker 1: He probably works for a transportation service that just does.
Speaker 3: That, that just does organs.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, okay, And he was willing to go to
Speaker 2: jail for the cause he was passionate. Well, that's what
Speaker 2: I was wondering if he was first a helicopter guy
Speaker 2: or first an organ lover.
Speaker 1: You know, I think he's a helicopter guy, and as
Speaker 1: he did it, he fell in love with the kids
Speaker 1: and stuff and seeing how his helicopter work made kids alive.
Speaker 1: But like this guy, like he must know he was
Speaker 1: doing creepy bed stuff like I guess all criminals do.
Speaker 3: But it's like, bro, you're a freak master Marino. Yeah,
Speaker 3: I mean, I guess.
Speaker 1: But he was also like, I'm making millions of dollars
Speaker 1: and no one's the wiser because these people are like
Speaker 1: their loved ones are going to be clothed and buried
Speaker 1: the next time they see them. They're never going to
Speaker 1: notice this stuff. Like I honestly don't even know how
Speaker 1: they got busted. I mean the investigation. Maybe they went
Speaker 1: under cover was an eighteen month investigation. Yeah, thank you
Speaker 1: spooky anyway, I mean.
Speaker 3: Yeah, but this was fun, not the crime. It's not fun.
Speaker 2: But I'm still I like when we're all conflicted, and
Speaker 2: I wonder, I wonder if people are gonna come for
Speaker 2: my ass if I'm wrong.
Speaker 1: Well, we don't have a guest today, so let's go
Speaker 1: right into our post mortem about this. Yeah, I guess
Speaker 1: I can't stop. I'm still thinking. But yeah, she played
Speaker 1: it well the real life.
Speaker 2: I guess I'm glad there was no Yeah, for some reason,
Speaker 2: I'm not as distraught by this guy.
Speaker 1: I just think he's a little gremlin. Yeah, yeah, he's
Speaker 1: a little grave robbing gremlin. Okay, Well, post mortem on Dare.
Speaker 1: I mean, we've sort.
Speaker 2: Of already and we've never disagreed like this.
Speaker 3: Well, I mean, I just I don't know.
Speaker 1: I just the whole time I was watching it, I
Speaker 1: was just like, but I didn't realize her still pumping
Speaker 1: heart is a pretty big I would not have wanted
Speaker 1: my kids like fully pumping. It's like we gotta pull
Speaker 1: the plug as a family, say goodbye. Then we walk
Speaker 1: out and you can take the Morgans you know what
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm not allowing that kind of nonsense, but
Speaker 1: I'm just like very pro organ donation also, but I
Speaker 1: don't think that's the issue of this episode. It's like
Speaker 1: more I'm an organ donor. Yeah, it's just more it's
Speaker 1: the consent of it all.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's just you can't forge documents, you can't take
Speaker 2: organs without consenting.
Speaker 1: The episode is trying to make you think that you
Speaker 1: can if it's for the right reasons, you know. Like now,
Speaker 1: the older person who fucked up is Benson.
Speaker 3: I mean that I like that.
Speaker 1: I disagree with what happened, like Ben, because I disagree
Speaker 1: with what the doctor did.
Speaker 3: But like I'm just saying, Benson's the one where I'm like.
Speaker 2: You, fuck, you fucked up. You should have let him go,
Speaker 2: You should have let him go. Yeah, that boy did
Speaker 2: die and it is your fault.
Speaker 1: Like sorry, and three years he's been waiting three years.
Speaker 3: Ugh, And he was so cute.
Speaker 2: But she's an incredible actress, Like I'm a big fan
Speaker 2: of her perform in this and like the way she
Speaker 2: spoke and the lines were like no one's talked to
Speaker 2: Benson like that about professional courtesy in this cool way
Speaker 2: and she seems more powerful than McGrath and all these
Speaker 2: loud blowhards too. Yeah, she did carry herself with a
Speaker 2: god complex.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and like I liked how she just very subtly
Speaker 1: when they bring up her son, you see her kind
Speaker 1: of like break a little bit because she's been so
Speaker 1: tough since till then, and so like.
Speaker 3: I am completely correct in my beliefs.
Speaker 1: And then it's like, but she doesn't go, oh, you're right,
Speaker 1: like I fucked She just kind of realizes that she's
Speaker 1: fucked up, I think, And then when she gets her sentence,
Speaker 1: I think she.
Speaker 3: Realizes she really fucked up.
Speaker 1: Well, I have a feeling my prediction is that they
Speaker 1: give her like eighteen months with good behavior. She's out
Speaker 1: in like nine or something. Well, she plaied out, made
Speaker 1: a deal. Now yeah she's been found guilty. I don't know,
Speaker 1: but no thirty two times seven. Yeah, it was a
Speaker 1: good episode. It's what I've been dying to do for forever.
Speaker 1: But I also hate those little girls. That's another thing
Speaker 1: I disagree with. It's an accident. No, those girls need
Speaker 1: to be charged with what's the thing, fucking up with
Speaker 1: a police investigation?
Speaker 3: Yeah, interference with of an investigation.
Speaker 1: Right, like lied, yeah, and your friend was lying there,
Speaker 1: you dumb bitches, And what are you doing When the
Speaker 1: cops went all the way to the delivery guy's apartment
Speaker 1: and came back. The whole time, you were like, should
Speaker 1: we tell someone that our friend is lying on the
Speaker 1: gym floor with her fucking leg bent behind her back?
Speaker 1: Like I don't know, I understand being scared to tell
Speaker 1: the truth, but that just seems but you never do
Speaker 1: that when somebody's hurt, Like I'm sorry, Like I just
Speaker 1: remember when I was younger, it was like if somebody
Speaker 1: got hurt, it was like we stuck out and this happened,
Speaker 1: and we got like we gotta you know, you gotta
Speaker 1: get somebody help, Like yeah, like I'm not I don't
Speaker 1: want to get in trouble. I would lie to like
Speaker 1: my fucking dying day, but to my parents to not
Speaker 1: get in trouble, but not when it was like somebody's
Speaker 1: health and safety was involved, you know.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: But anyway, this episode, watch out who your kids are
Speaker 1: friends with and be an organ donor if you can.
Speaker 1: I don't think it makes them stop operating on you
Speaker 1: because like in the end, it's like you don't even
Speaker 1: know that this stuff is compatible. Like do you think
Speaker 1: if it's like a heart, it has to be a match. Well, yeah,
Speaker 1: that's why you had to wait three years. Anyway, let's
Speaker 1: move on to or what would Sister Peg Do? And
Speaker 1: listen to have any final thoughts.
Speaker 3: Well, yeah, it just reminds you.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's like when the kids are dying of alcohol
Speaker 2: poisoning or I don't know, we have drugs, so we
Speaker 2: shouldn't say something. And it's like, you really think someone
Speaker 2: should die because you're scared of getting in trouble. Yeah,
Speaker 2: that's the thing, like you. Yeah, this episode so many
Speaker 2: gray area things. I wonder what our listeners feel about
Speaker 2: the two girls, about Benson and about the doctor.
Speaker 1: So let know they're gonna let us know, they're gonna
Speaker 1: be in the DMS, letting us know, let us know.
Speaker 1: But yeah, let's move on to what would Sister Peg Do?
Speaker 1: This is our weekly segment where we direct you to
Speaker 1: an organization, a book, a movie, a something, to an
Speaker 1: article to give you more information about what we talked about.
Speaker 1: And I just wanted to point you guys to organ
Speaker 1: donor dot gov. You can learn how donation works, who
Speaker 1: can donate and read several life saving donation stories, Plus,
Speaker 1: you can sign up to be an organ donor if
Speaker 1: you are not already so for more info, head over
Speaker 1: to organ Donor dot gov and that will be posted
Speaker 1: in our show notes as well as in a story
Speaker 1: and saved in our WWSPD highlight on our Instagram, which is.
Speaker 3: That's Messed Up Pod. Go give us a follow.
Speaker 2: Thank you for that, and next week we will be
Speaker 2: doing Wanna Be from season eleven, episode twenty three.
Speaker 1: We're so excited join us again. Yay, Yeah, thank you
Speaker 1: guys for listening. Bye.
Speaker 2: That's Messed Up as an exactly right production.
Speaker 1: If you have compliment once you'd like to give us
Speaker 1: or episodes you'd like us to cover, shoot us an
Speaker 1: email it That's Messed uppod at gmail dot com. Listen
Speaker 1: to That's Messed Up on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts
Speaker 1: or wherever you get your podcasts.
Speaker 2: Follow the podcast on Instagram at That's Messed Up Pod,
Speaker 2: and follow us personally at Kara Klank and at glitter Cheese.
Speaker 1: As always, please see our show notes for sources and
Speaker 1: more information.
Speaker 2: Thank you so much to our senior producer Casey O'Brien
Speaker 2: and our associate producer Christina Chamberlain, and to.
Speaker 1: Our mixer John Bradley and our guest booker Patrick Cottner.
Speaker 1: And to Henry Kaperski for our theme song and Carly
Speaker 1: gen Andrews for our artwork. Thank you to our executive
Speaker 1: producers Georgia hard Start, Karen Kilgarriff, Daniel Kramer and everybody
Speaker 1: at Exactly Right Media dut dun