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Speaker 1: Welcome to the show. So years ago we embarked on

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Speaker 1: a strange conversation that continues today. Everybody's aware that serial

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Speaker 1: killers get a lot of attention in the media, despite

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Speaker 1: the fact that they are a minuscule portion of people

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Speaker 1: committing homicide. It's distressing to know that, despite the hundreds

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Speaker 1: of millions being spent to try to apprehend these monsters,

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Speaker 1: a lot of them get away. It reminds me of

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Speaker 1: the current stories that's happening right now at the University

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Speaker 1: of Idaho with those for students who are found stabbed

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Speaker 1: in their home and no suspects, yet nobody knows is

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Speaker 1: this a serial killer? Well, there are a lot of

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Speaker 1: them out there historically that either never got caught or

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Speaker 1: we don't even know their true identities. Let's dive into

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Speaker 1: serial killers on the loose, from UFOs to psychic powers

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Speaker 1: and government conspiracies. His Drew is riddled with unexplained events

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Speaker 1: and you can turn back now or learn the stuff

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Speaker 1: they don't want you to know. Hello, Welcome back to

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Speaker 1: the show. My name is Bett, my name is the

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Speaker 1: coming bed. You are unit that makes this stuff they

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Speaker 1: don't want you to know. But no ordinary episode of

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Speaker 1: stuff they don't want you to know. I mean, arguably

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Speaker 1: ever have had an ordinary episode stuff they don't want

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Speaker 1: you I haven't seen it, I haven't heard it. Uh,

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Speaker 1: so this will be another extraordinary episode. It's different in

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Speaker 1: that we are returning to a topic we examined in

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Speaker 1: the past at length, the dark, murky world of crime,

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Speaker 1: specifically homicide, specifically the rare wrist and perhaps most well

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Speaker 1: known form of homicide. I really want to insert that

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Speaker 1: sound effect from Law and Order dank dun, and just

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Speaker 1: imagine the phrase dick wolf uh blossoming in your head,

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Speaker 1: but not just dick wolves blossoming everywhere. Yeah, yeah, it

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Speaker 1: could be a person in real life. But we don't

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Speaker 1: want to mess with your imagination or impose limits on

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Speaker 1: your creativity. So whatever you think when you're hear the

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Speaker 1: phrase that was blossoming in your head, just run wild.

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Speaker 1: You can write to us about it. We might not

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Speaker 1: be able to read it on air. We've examined serial

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Speaker 1: killers in the past, boy have weay, and we are

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Speaker 1: picking up where we left off in our previous episode

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Speaker 1: on serial Killers Uncaught and otherwise in this episode. To

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Speaker 1: start off, we're gonna do a little bit of review.

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Speaker 1: I guess you can call it from the last episode.

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Speaker 1: What did we talk about in that one, Matt Well,

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Speaker 1: In truth, we've this is like episode or five in

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Speaker 1: a way, just because we've covered specific serial killers and

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Speaker 1: then other serial killers that disappeared or were never apprehended.

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Speaker 1: So we had the original night stalker that we went

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Speaker 1: over in some serious depth, which was terrifying. I had

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Speaker 1: nightmares for a while that the guy was out there

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Speaker 1: listening to us and then was going to come and

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Speaker 1: find us. Also unapprehended. Agreed, Yes, the Highway of Tears

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Speaker 1: another situation where that was one with the truck drivers

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Speaker 1: in the Native Americans, right, Yes, I think Canada and

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Speaker 1: uh more serial killer or killers that have not been

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Speaker 1: apprehended there, and we for a Highway of Tears. We

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Speaker 1: partnered with How Stuff Works auto experts Scott Benjamin, who

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Speaker 1: is quite the true crime officionado and as Noel mentioned

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Speaker 1: in our first episode on various uncaught serial killers, killers

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Speaker 1: who were on the loose and could be alive today,

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Speaker 1: may even be alive as we're recording this episode. Uh

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Speaker 1: we uh. We had Christian Sager from Stuff to Blow

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Speaker 1: Your Mind come onto the show, Friend of the Show,

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Speaker 1: and we looked at several different killers, the new Bedford

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Speaker 1: Highway killer Lisbon ripper Pedro Lopez, who was I don't

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Speaker 1: know if you can assign a value, but in terms

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Speaker 1: of numbers of people killed, he's by far the highest,

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Speaker 1: and the victims that he chose all children. What does

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Speaker 1: it take to earn the nickname the ripper? I just

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Speaker 1: you know, can you casually do that? Can I even

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Speaker 1: all the ripper? I guess if you you know, if

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Speaker 1: we're back in lime wire days, if I ripped sick beats,

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Speaker 1: does that count? That could count? That could count. Usually

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Speaker 1: in the case of murderer, Uh, it's assigned by journalists,

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Speaker 1: people kind of coin. It's sort of a rush to

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Speaker 1: like be the one to give the clever name to

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Speaker 1: by the at large murderer. And that's why there are

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Speaker 1: a lot of the insert geographical location here stranglers, a

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Speaker 1: lot of the insert rippers. You ever wonder about the

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Speaker 1: ones that don't stick? Yeah, some sad sack journalists that

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Speaker 1: just kind of was really trying his best. But then

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Speaker 1: so you know, the the other one took off and

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Speaker 1: he was just left in the dirt. Yeah, yeah, I

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Speaker 1: think about that too, because I could see the pitch

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Speaker 1: meetings where they're trying to divide the line between is

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Speaker 1: this a workable name for a serial killer or does

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Speaker 1: this sound like a DC supervillain? Yeah, well you see

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Speaker 1: that in movies a lot too, or there in the

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Speaker 1: newsroom and the grizzled old you know, editor was like, no,

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Speaker 1: we needs something that bleeds. It bleeds, it leads. Come

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Speaker 1: on something that will capture them imaginations. How about Bend

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Speaker 1: the Ripper. That sounds good. And I was like, well,

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Speaker 1: what what about the bone collector? Yes, and they're like,

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Speaker 1: that would work. That's a great I like the way

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Speaker 1: you're thinking, Darren, but we gotta have a bone on

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Speaker 1: the scene disembowler. Right, it's such a weird thing to

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Speaker 1: think about that those are a little exaggerated about what

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Speaker 1: would happen. But but yeah, pretty pretty similar to things

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Speaker 1: that are actually happening while on the streets there are

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Speaker 1: people being murdered. Well, there's a certain callousness to this

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Speaker 1: kind of reporting. You can't deny. Well, there's a callousness

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Speaker 1: I would argue to reporting in general, especially in the West,

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Speaker 1: because remember how post Nixon. Well none of us are

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Speaker 1: old enough to remember ride after post Nixon, but all

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Speaker 1: of us listening now are the facto post Nixon. As

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Speaker 1: soon as the Watergate scandal happens, then people began just saying,

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Speaker 1: you know how we make something really sell attached the

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Speaker 1: word gate to it. Right, It's been happening ever since.

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Speaker 1: It's been happening ever since. We're apparently in the midst

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Speaker 1: of stupid water Gate right now. Stupid water that's what

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Speaker 1: John Oliver is calling. Have you guys heard about the

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Speaker 1: Oliver effect? That such a sidebar? Apparently last week Tonight,

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Speaker 1: which I think is a great show, has a noticeable

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Speaker 1: and statistically significant effect on legislation. They call it the

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Speaker 1: Oliver effect, and not just in the US, even in

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Speaker 1: New Zealand. Man, what was that the one with the

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Speaker 1: eminem Yeah, where they ripped off it. They did a

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Speaker 1: they did a copyright free impressed impersonation of Lose Yourself

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Speaker 1: the instrumental track, and then they had a bunch of

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Speaker 1: is it offensive to say Kiwi or is that just

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Speaker 1: like say brit Well if if if it is, then

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Speaker 1: that's a shame because that's also a really good key

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Speaker 1: for how they pronounced words. Yes, everything is kind of

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Speaker 1: like Kiwi. Sorry, Speaking of ripping things off, how about

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Speaker 1: the Lisbon Ripper, Right, yes, the Lisbon Ripper was one

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Speaker 1: of the unfortunately many people who got the ripper added

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Speaker 1: to their name, and then there was also the Craigslist Ripper,

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Speaker 1: all the Long Island serial killer. What's troubling about this is,

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Speaker 1: as we covered these, none of those crimes ms have

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Speaker 1: been tied to a person. Those people remain apprehended and

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Speaker 1: not got us thinking what else is out there? Because

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Speaker 1: we said in the first episode we only scratched the surface, right,

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Speaker 1: So today we are returning to the grim, morbid minds

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Speaker 1: of serial murderers. And I mean just a slight disclaimer.

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Speaker 1: This stuff is disturbing, unsettling, upsetting stuff, and if we

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Speaker 1: get a little light with it occasionally, I swear to

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Speaker 1: you it's literally just to keep us from going insane.

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Speaker 1: But if we do have younger listeners out there, maybe

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Speaker 1: parents who are listening with the younger ones, I'm not

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Speaker 1: saying don't listen to it. I'm just saying, use caution,

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Speaker 1: be aware. Uh So, first things first, we want to

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Speaker 1: define what makes a serial killer. This is a troublingly

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Speaker 1: controversial definition. The FBI's definition of what exactly makes a

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Speaker 1: murderer serial killer has fluctuated over the past decades. We

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Speaker 1: know the term serial killer was coined in the mid

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Speaker 1: nineteen seventies by a guy named Robert Wrestler. Uh not

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Speaker 1: spelled in like a fun wrestling way r E S

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Speaker 1: s l e R, because you know, I don't know

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Speaker 1: if people would take it seriously if he was Mr. Wrestler,

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Speaker 1: it's like Mr. Jack Potts, though it would be Robbie

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Speaker 1: the Wrestler the former. He was the former director of

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Speaker 1: FBI's Violent Criminal Apprehension Program, and he chose the word

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Speaker 1: serial because people in the UK and law enforcement called

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Speaker 1: these types of murders crimes in a series, and because

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Speaker 1: he grew up watching serialized films. Before this, these criminals

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Speaker 1: were sometimes known as mass murderers, or the act was

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Speaker 1: called stranger on stranger crime, which doesn't really cover it,

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Speaker 1: because a mass mur could be anything from an explosive

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Speaker 1: device or war or war lord that's a great point,

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Speaker 1: or a spree killer who was just like I'm mad

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Speaker 1: about something, so I'm gonna take it out on everyone

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Speaker 1: in this McDonald's. And I guess contained within that serial

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Speaker 1: killer moniker is a lot of psychology as well, in

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Speaker 1: terms of how they choose their victims with their m

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Speaker 1: o is how they go about planning these crimes. So

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Speaker 1: there's much more premeditation involved in being a serial killer

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Speaker 1: than saying being a mass murder or a spree killer,

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Speaker 1: any other kind of random or accidental killing. Right, Like

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Speaker 1: so many people who kill someone in the course of

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Speaker 1: trying to commit another crime successfully, bank robbery, burglary, am

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Speaker 1: out of postage stamp fraud, that's the one I keep

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Speaker 1: going back to. I still can't believe that's a crime.

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Speaker 1: But we do have these hard and fast definitions or

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Speaker 1: qualities of serial killers that that we want everybody to

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Speaker 1: be clear up. It comes from the Crime Classification Manual,

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Speaker 1: and it says that a serial killer is someone who

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Speaker 1: a commits at least three murders, be in at least

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Speaker 1: three different locations, see encounter some kind of cooling off

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Speaker 1: period in between murders, so stops murdering for a while

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Speaker 1: and then and we already know that definition is imperfect

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Speaker 1: because there are serial killers, like, how do we define

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Speaker 1: that location? Right? We are there are serial killers who

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Speaker 1: routinely killed people within their homes. Jeffrey Dahmer, John Wayne Gacy,

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Speaker 1: uh I can not remember his name, but that monster

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Speaker 1: who had been at a torture truck. Also, by the way,

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Speaker 1: if you check out when you check out the FBI's

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Speaker 1: classification of serial killers on the interstate, you will rethink

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Speaker 1: rest stops in this country. We also know there's a

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Speaker 1: difference in the way that the media portrays serial killers

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Speaker 1: versus the way these people act. Sure, so you know

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Speaker 1: we've seen, like I hesitate to use the word favorite,

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Speaker 1: but what are some of the most memorable serial killers

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Speaker 1: in fiction? Animal lector right? That's one, Yes, that was

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Speaker 1: the main one. I was gonna say. Henry Portrait of

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Speaker 1: a serial killer is a good one, pretty like a

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Speaker 1: very solitary depiction of sort of like this lone wolf

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Speaker 1: serial killer situation. That's a good one. American psycho. American

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Speaker 1: psycho is great. Yeah, and of course psycho, oh yes,

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Speaker 1: and also psycho. So we know that in real life

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Speaker 1: serial killers typically work alone. Is very very rare for

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Speaker 1: them to cooperate, uh, And they typically kill strangers who

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Speaker 1: fit the m o of whatever it is they're into,

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Speaker 1: and they kill for the sake of killing as opposed

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Speaker 1: to you know, crime a passion. According to a recent

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Speaker 1: FBI study that's been approximately four hundred serial killers in

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Speaker 1: the US in the past century, and they've killed anywhere

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Speaker 1: from winning five hundred to almost four thousand victims. And

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Speaker 1: back to the whole aspect of media involved in this,

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Speaker 1: we've got a depiction that is created by the media

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Speaker 1: versus reality. So first off, you know, just for get

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Speaker 1: the tired old, romanticized dexter or hannibal electric tropes. There's

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Speaker 1: no way to really tell from outward appearances whether someone

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Speaker 1: is or is not serial killer, but we can use

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Speaker 1: psychology to profile people a bit from what we know.

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Speaker 1: More than of serial killers are male, Caucasian and in

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Speaker 1: their twenties or thirties, and many criminologists believe serial killers

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Speaker 1: also experience three very specific behaviors in childhood, known as

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Speaker 1: the McDonald triad. Matt, what's that about, Yes, Noel, the

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Speaker 1: McDonald triad are three things, bed, wedding, arson, and cruelty

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Speaker 1: to animals. So it's strange to me that these are

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Speaker 1: the three things, because you imagine, cruelty to animals is

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Speaker 1: kind of a ramp up to cruelty to humans. Arson

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Speaker 1: shows that you don't really care about the consequences of

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Speaker 1: an action like that. Possibly you don't care and then

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Speaker 1: bed wedding that feels like an outlier to me. So

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Speaker 1: it's more degree to which or the age of which

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Speaker 1: someone stops involuntarily wedding the bed, So it's not bed

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Speaker 1: wedding in general, that's a very common thing to people

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Speaker 1: when they're learning to use restrooms in the way that

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Speaker 1: our society says is correct, it's a bell curve of

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Speaker 1: not wedding the bed, I think starting out early. And

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Speaker 1: but you know, if you know, some people will involuntarily

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Speaker 1: h urinate if we're just gonna be dry medical about it,

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Speaker 1: well into their teens. And this under the McDonald tread

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Speaker 1: and bended by McDonald, of course, is to him one

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Speaker 1: of the primary clues to the problem. We should say that,

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Speaker 1: like many other things, is controversial because it's always tough

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Speaker 1: to measure people who don't want to be measured or found.

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Speaker 1: Which even goes back to the earlier statistics. You know

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Speaker 1: what we said of serial killers or male what that

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Speaker 1: probably means is eight of apprehended serial killers' and so

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Speaker 1: we do know that there are a few other observable commonalities.

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Speaker 1: Serial killers are likely to have come from broken damaged

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Speaker 1: home situations, to have been abused whether that is through

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Speaker 1: physical or sexual activity or through neglect like chaining someone

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Speaker 1: up in an empty room. Uh. And we also know

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Speaker 1: that you can't really You probably have met somebody at

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Speaker 1: your school or at your job with people joke about

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Speaker 1: that person being a serial killer. We have a few

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Speaker 1: here which I won't name, But the truth of the

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Speaker 1: matter is there's not a single observable like outward personality

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Speaker 1: fingerprint for the UH for the proof positive of a

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Speaker 1: serial killer. As some might be shy and introverted, others

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Speaker 1: might be super gregarious like Ted Bundy, an outgoing But

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Speaker 1: the crazy thing is, you know, I think we've talked

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Speaker 1: about this on the show before Ted Bunny represented himself

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Speaker 1: in court and he almost one. He was he was.

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Speaker 1: We had said this earlier before. Uh, Matt, I think

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Speaker 1: you phrased them as people who would charmed the pants

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Speaker 1: off of you or your your head. But we also

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Speaker 1: know that they're not created equally. That there may be

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Speaker 1: a tendency toward higher than average intelligence, but there will

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Speaker 1: also be people who have lower than average IQ scores

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Speaker 1: and the i Q of course I can hear people

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Speaker 1: typing the emails. Now know the i Q test is

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Speaker 1: not a great measure of intelligence have different processes, different motivations.

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Speaker 1: But we do know that there is another type of

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Speaker 1: classification system that groups people by their acts and uh nold,

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Speaker 1: do you want to break this down one? You know?

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Speaker 1: I do? Ben Ronald dam and Stephen T. Holmes attempted

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Speaker 1: to break down these differences with a classification system called

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Speaker 1: the homes typology. So the home typology groups killers accordingly. Uh.

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Speaker 1: Serial killers can be activo um, those who kill quickly,

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Speaker 1: or they can be process focused those who kill slowly. Um.

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Speaker 1: For act focused killers simply killing the act of killing

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Speaker 1: itself is what does the job. That's the whole point,

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Speaker 1: the whole point, um. And within this group, you've got

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Speaker 1: two types, the visionary and the missionary. Missionary is not

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Speaker 1: as fun as it sounds. Well, let's get to it.

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Speaker 1: Let's get to it. The visionary murders because they hear

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Speaker 1: voices or have visions that direct them to do so. Um.

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Speaker 1: So that this is you know a typical scenario where

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Speaker 1: you know the devil made me do it, or you

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Speaker 1: know you have a voice in your head that's whispering

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Speaker 1: to you to do horrible acts my mother. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: Often demonic, divine or departed influential relations right, like in

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Speaker 1: Psycho Freezing, that's a spoiler. But I think Psycho is

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Speaker 1: about seventy years old, so I think we're okay. I

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Speaker 1: actually had an argument with my girl for the other day.

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Speaker 1: She said, it's never are cool to spoil anything, and

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Speaker 1: I'm like, we've been over this. I've got it's okay.

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Speaker 1: The community says five years at the statue limentage is like,

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Speaker 1: I don't care. I just think you want to spoil

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Speaker 1: things because it makes you sound like you know at all.

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Speaker 1: That sounds like you guys were ultimately arguing about something else. Probably.

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Speaker 1: But then there's the missionary murderers, and as you said, Ben,

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Speaker 1: not as fun as it sounds at all. The missionary

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Speaker 1: murders because um, he or she believes that they are

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Speaker 1: meant to get rid of a particular group of people.

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Speaker 1: Either I will murder every Blockbuster manager. Yeah, that's pretty

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Speaker 1: much been been accomplished already, or or there are people

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Speaker 1: who would say, for instance, um, due to wrongs or

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Speaker 1: due to my divine understanding, this uh specific type of person,

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Speaker 1: this could be race or ethnicity motivated. Uh, they think

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Speaker 1: they must be cleansed of the earth, even as we're

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Speaker 1: gonna see later on things they have to do with

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Speaker 1: monthly cycles, hair color. Yeah, there's any kind of things

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Speaker 1: that would fit into the and it could even fall

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Speaker 1: into the category of like a vigilante that's like killing

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Speaker 1: you know, doctors, an abortion clinic or something like that,

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Speaker 1: or anybody that the scene congregating abortion clinics, so to

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Speaker 1: kind of pick out and like say that I'm doing

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Speaker 1: the lord's work, for example, or to have some sort

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Speaker 1: of like crusade mentality, yeah exactly. And then the process

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Speaker 1: focused serial killers a little bit different. These are the

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Speaker 1: ones you typically see in like the grizzly gruesome film

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Speaker 1: depictions where someone's doing some ritualistic, gnarly stuff. Yeah exactly.

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Speaker 1: So this would be you know, for them, the risk

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Speaker 1: of sounding glib, it's about the journey. They don't the

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Speaker 1: they don't necessarily get off on the death unless it

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Speaker 1: occurs under a very specific process or workflow. Would be

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Speaker 1: a sadist, Yeah, a sadist um. And and they have

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Speaker 1: three different types, just like this visionary missionary. There are

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Speaker 1: three different types of headonists. Uh. And then there is

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Speaker 1: a separate special category called power seeking killers. So the

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Speaker 1: three types of headness are aiming for lust, thrill, and gain,

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Speaker 1: and they're they're pretty self explains to where lust killers

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Speaker 1: derive sexual pleasure from it. Thrill killers get a kick

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Speaker 1: kind of endorphin rush. Game killers believe they will profit

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Speaker 1: in some way. And these these are not exclusive categories,

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Speaker 1: but people tend to fall more into one than the other.

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Speaker 1: Like A. J. H. Holmes was making money from ripping

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Speaker 1: people off in his murder mansion, but he was also

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Speaker 1: clearly into killing people in a myriad of torturous ways.

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Speaker 1: Power killers want to play god, to be in charge

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Speaker 1: of life or death, and many times, um this would

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Speaker 1: be the case of you know, the the nurses who

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Speaker 1: are discovered to have been slowly poisoning patients over decades

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Speaker 1: and in the past were very hard to catch. Then

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Speaker 1: you get into classifications of serial killers by their organizational

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Speaker 1: skills and their social skills, which feels again it all

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Speaker 1: feels so strange trying to organize the people into the groups,

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Speaker 1: but it makes a lot of sense when you're hunting

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Speaker 1: serial killers right as law enforcement. Um. So they can

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Speaker 1: either be organized or distor disorganized. And that's when you

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Speaker 1: look at the type of crime scene, how it's set up.

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Speaker 1: Then you've got non social or a social Uh. This

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Speaker 1: is going to depend on whether or not they exclude

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Speaker 1: themselves from society or whether a society excludes them. And

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Speaker 1: then uh, the majority of identified serial killers are organized

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Speaker 1: and non social, so they don't want to hang. But

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Speaker 1: they do have a plan. They do have a plan,

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Speaker 1: and they like things to be a very specific way.

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Speaker 1: And here's some silver lining which is gonna be We

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Speaker 1: actively went through when when the three of us working

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Speaker 1: out this episode and tried to find silver linings, ladies

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Speaker 1: and gentlemen. So one of our first silver linings is

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Speaker 1: that serial killers are fall are far less common than

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Speaker 1: the media and culture might have you believe. The FBI

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Speaker 1: and other experts estimate that at any given time they're

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Speaker 1: anywhere from fifty too well three hundred active serial killers

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Speaker 1: in the US. Stuff to prove those numbers for certain.

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Speaker 1: And there's one thing for sure, one of the only

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Speaker 1: things that we know. They're out there somewhere beneath the

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Speaker 1: pale moon line, dancing or sometimes just picking up the

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Speaker 1: mail from the post. Yeah, don't trust people who go

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Speaker 1: to their mailboxes at night. That should be archery d

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Speaker 1: very true. And guess what we're gonna tell you all

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Speaker 1: about it right after a quick word from our sponsor.

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Speaker 1: Here's where it gets crazy. At the top of the show,

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Speaker 1: we rambled off several different serial killers that remain uncaught,

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Speaker 1: hanging out somewhere, maybe they died, maybe will just never

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Speaker 1: find them. But guess what, there are quite a few more,

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Speaker 1: and they remain uncought today, or at least their crimes

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Speaker 1: remain unsolved. So so many of these people out there,

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Speaker 1: we can't cover them all in a single episode. We're

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Speaker 1: probably going to do a third one of these at

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Speaker 1: some point, or maybe a separate show just about crime

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Speaker 1: and serial killers. Oh that would be good, or just

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Speaker 1: a specific show on each one. This doesn't mean that

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Speaker 1: these murderers are necessarily anonymous. In several cases, investigators are

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Speaker 1: convinced that they have discovered the identity of a given killer,

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Speaker 1: but did not have sufficient evidence to make an official

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Speaker 1: or clean conviction. And that's that's what happens when you're

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Speaker 1: on the side of the technically, speaking to good guys,

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Speaker 1: you have to obey rules that the others do not

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Speaker 1: have to obey. And in other cases, a string of

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Speaker 1: murders by an unidentified killer may actually be the work

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Speaker 1: of another known murderer. And here's where we get to

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Speaker 1: our first example of serial killers that remain on the

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Speaker 1: loose Part two. So first we're going to talk about

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Speaker 1: a killer by the name of Bible John, which, of

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Speaker 1: getta say, is pretty powerful name. It sounds like a

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Speaker 1: villain and preacher. Bible John is believed to have murdered

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Speaker 1: three young women after meeting them at the Barrowland Ballroom

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Speaker 1: in Glasgow, Scotland between nineteen nineteen sixty nine. Uh. There

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Speaker 1: was very little doubt that these murders were all carried

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Speaker 1: out by the same person. All three victims were women,

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Speaker 1: they'd all been strangled, specifically with their pantyhose or their

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Speaker 1: nylons uh, and they were all beaten to death. And

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Speaker 1: the name Bible John is derived from the single suspect

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Speaker 1: in the case. The last victims shared a taxi with

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Speaker 1: her sister and a man who said his name was

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Speaker 1: John was quoting from the Bible at them. But because

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Speaker 1: this technical remains unsolved doesn't mean they're suspects, right. Several

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Speaker 1: experts believe the Bible John murders were in fact committed

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Speaker 1: by a known and convicted serial killer with the much

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Speaker 1: less intriguing name. Peter Tobin So Tobin Um is a

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Speaker 1: convicted Scottish serial killer and sex offender who as we

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Speaker 1: speak is serving three life sentences um with what they

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Speaker 1: call over there a whole life order which is basically

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Speaker 1: like life without the possibility of for role at HM

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Speaker 1: Prison Edinburgh for three murders committed between in two thousand

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Speaker 1: and six with a very similar m O and a

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Speaker 1: whole life order. You know, it sounds like a weird

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Speaker 1: sign on for a series, but it is. It is

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Speaker 1: something that this government will do to prevent someone from

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Speaker 1: leaving the prison system in Europe, in Eastern or in

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Speaker 1: Western Europe at least by and large is much more

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Speaker 1: centered on rehabilitation rather than you know, attribution or using

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Speaker 1: prisoners as cheap labor. Sure the main thing in the US. Right,

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Speaker 1: So this is this guy super messed up. He targeted

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Speaker 1: women who are menstruating, young women who we would found,

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Speaker 1: who we found at this ballroom, and he would this

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Speaker 1: is the kind of thing we're talking about where a

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Speaker 1: serial killer can charm you where he would meet you

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Speaker 1: meet these women at the bar and then essentially go

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Speaker 1: home with them or you know, go off with them

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Speaker 1: to have a private moment or something, and then he

429
00:26:32,160 --> 00:26:35,040
Speaker 1: would turn you know, sounds like this guy is the

430
00:26:35,119 --> 00:26:38,159
Speaker 1: very definition of a missionary serial killer. If he was

431
00:26:38,200 --> 00:26:41,280
Speaker 1: targeting menstruating women, it's like he was singling them out

432
00:26:41,359 --> 00:26:44,960
Speaker 1: for what he interpreted to be some sort of uncleanliness

433
00:26:45,119 --> 00:26:47,760
Speaker 1: or impurity, I suppose, and then you know, wanted to

434
00:26:47,800 --> 00:26:51,800
Speaker 1: call them from the population. Yeah, it's a possibility when

435
00:26:51,840 --> 00:26:54,040
Speaker 1: you when you get into some of the rules and

436
00:26:54,160 --> 00:26:57,119
Speaker 1: laws that you can find in books of the Bible,

437
00:26:57,160 --> 00:27:00,159
Speaker 1: like Leviticus or something. If you take those two seriously,

438
00:27:00,680 --> 00:27:06,120
Speaker 1: you can get into some dangerous belief and thought territory there. Oh,

439
00:27:06,160 --> 00:27:09,320
Speaker 1: and another thing, he took the handbags of these women,

440
00:27:10,080 --> 00:27:11,720
Speaker 1: He would like dump all the stuff out of the

441
00:27:11,760 --> 00:27:14,720
Speaker 1: handbag and then well, who knows if he actually took it,

442
00:27:14,840 --> 00:27:16,399
Speaker 1: or if he hit it or got rid of it

443
00:27:16,520 --> 00:27:20,720
Speaker 1: or something. Fetishes and relics and trophies are very common

444
00:27:20,920 --> 00:27:23,760
Speaker 1: in a lot of serial killer cases. Luckily he only

445
00:27:23,800 --> 00:27:26,359
Speaker 1: got the three. But you can imagine, you know, I'm

446
00:27:26,400 --> 00:27:28,840
Speaker 1: gone unchecked for long enough time, you might have found

447
00:27:28,880 --> 00:27:31,240
Speaker 1: his den and there'll just be like a pile of handbags.

448
00:27:31,240 --> 00:27:33,560
Speaker 1: And if and there may well be and if this

449
00:27:34,000 --> 00:27:38,720
Speaker 1: Bible John is the same person as Peter Tobin. What's

450
00:27:38,720 --> 00:27:41,919
Speaker 1: morbidly fascinating here is that we may be able to

451
00:27:41,960 --> 00:27:46,359
Speaker 1: trace the evolution the increasing sophistication of a serial killer.

452
00:27:46,960 --> 00:27:50,439
Speaker 1: It's sort of similar to the red Dragon cases Uh

453
00:27:51,040 --> 00:27:56,920
Speaker 1: mentioned in the Animal Lecter series. This brings us so

454
00:27:56,920 --> 00:28:00,000
Speaker 1: so technically, just to sum it up, technically, Bible John

455
00:28:00,040 --> 00:28:06,680
Speaker 1: remains unconvicted or unapprehended, but a growing number of investigators

456
00:28:07,040 --> 00:28:10,560
Speaker 1: convinced that this is actually Peter Tobin. You just can't

457
00:28:10,680 --> 00:28:14,320
Speaker 1: prove it, right, because in the nineteen sixties there was

458
00:28:14,400 --> 00:28:19,520
Speaker 1: nowhere near the level of technological sophistication when it came

459
00:28:19,560 --> 00:28:24,679
Speaker 1: to investigating DNA, preserving bodies, et cetera. But this is

460
00:28:24,720 --> 00:28:26,840
Speaker 1: not the only example. Yeah, and next we've got the

461
00:28:26,880 --> 00:28:30,720
Speaker 1: Oakland County child killer A k A. Sorry to chuckle,

462
00:28:30,760 --> 00:28:32,480
Speaker 1: it's just this is kind of fight since I got

463
00:28:32,480 --> 00:28:35,200
Speaker 1: like a villain on the tick or something, the babysitter

464
00:28:35,320 --> 00:28:38,200
Speaker 1: that just makes me shiver, and I shiver rarely. Yeah,

465
00:28:38,240 --> 00:28:40,440
Speaker 1: I know, I see I guess again, I'm doing that

466
00:28:40,480 --> 00:28:42,560
Speaker 1: thing where I'm getting light with it, because if you don't,

467
00:28:42,560 --> 00:28:45,600
Speaker 1: then it's like it's almost too much to handle. Defense

468
00:28:45,640 --> 00:28:50,880
Speaker 1: MECHANI is pretty pretty cruel. Um. So the babysitter um

469
00:28:50,920 --> 00:28:55,480
Speaker 1: concerns serial killer, a serial killer or killers active in

470
00:28:55,520 --> 00:29:00,000
Speaker 1: Oakland County, Michigan for thirteen months between February nine seven

471
00:29:00,240 --> 00:29:05,400
Speaker 1: six in March nine. Yeah, and this person or group

472
00:29:05,600 --> 00:29:09,080
Speaker 1: is responsible for the murder of four children, two boys

473
00:29:09,080 --> 00:29:11,400
Speaker 1: and two girls between the ages of ten and twelve.

474
00:29:12,040 --> 00:29:18,000
Speaker 1: So particularly grizzly, and the victims were held captive between

475
00:29:18,080 --> 00:29:21,800
Speaker 1: four and nineteen days before all of numbers slain. Their

476
00:29:21,800 --> 00:29:24,480
Speaker 1: bodies were always found wearing the same clothes in which

477
00:29:24,520 --> 00:29:28,000
Speaker 1: they were last seen, all quote neatly laid out on

478
00:29:28,040 --> 00:29:31,520
Speaker 1: the ground in various locations around this place in Michigan,

479
00:29:31,520 --> 00:29:37,840
Speaker 1: Oakland County. Um. And the babysitter moniker comes from this

480
00:29:37,880 --> 00:29:41,680
Speaker 1: process of cleaning the bodies after they were finished with

481
00:29:41,800 --> 00:29:45,400
Speaker 1: whatever they were doing with them. Um in his thought

482
00:29:45,480 --> 00:29:48,640
Speaker 1: that it was postmortem that they were cleaned like fingernails

483
00:29:48,640 --> 00:29:51,040
Speaker 1: clipped and everything. Right. I bet there was no evidence

484
00:29:51,040 --> 00:29:55,320
Speaker 1: of sexual assault. There was, Man, I hate even talking

485
00:29:55,320 --> 00:29:57,960
Speaker 1: about this. Don't don't listen to this if you're a kid. Um.

486
00:29:58,000 --> 00:30:03,240
Speaker 1: There was tearing specifically on the boys. So, yes, so

487
00:30:03,360 --> 00:30:05,760
Speaker 1: this was a process killer. It sounds like it is.

488
00:30:06,080 --> 00:30:08,120
Speaker 1: The only reason I say I said that was because

489
00:30:08,760 --> 00:30:13,360
Speaker 1: it makes me think of like I think things I've

490
00:30:13,400 --> 00:30:15,920
Speaker 1: seen in crime shows where a lot of times the

491
00:30:16,000 --> 00:30:18,600
Speaker 1: killers when they when they lay the body out with

492
00:30:18,640 --> 00:30:21,880
Speaker 1: such care and precision, they're almost like, you know, trying

493
00:30:21,920 --> 00:30:27,400
Speaker 1: to honor the body and buying it. So I'm wondering.

494
00:30:28,160 --> 00:30:31,280
Speaker 1: But but I guess there was sexual motive. Huh. There

495
00:30:31,280 --> 00:30:35,360
Speaker 1: appears to be. And when you start looking at the suspects, well, again,

496
00:30:35,440 --> 00:30:38,920
Speaker 1: these are suspects that as the Internet has grown and

497
00:30:39,000 --> 00:30:41,560
Speaker 1: there's more and more information out there and people can

498
00:30:41,680 --> 00:30:45,160
Speaker 1: become a sleuth online, a lot of this stuff has

499
00:30:45,600 --> 00:30:48,479
Speaker 1: come to light and also from the parents of some

500
00:30:48,560 --> 00:30:51,120
Speaker 1: of the victims. So what what are Can you tell

501
00:30:51,160 --> 00:30:53,680
Speaker 1: us a little bit about the suspects? Sure? So one

502
00:30:53,720 --> 00:30:57,640
Speaker 1: of them, uh is Christopher Bush? Said? This is this

503
00:30:57,680 --> 00:31:00,960
Speaker 1: guy's name. He was the son of woman named Harold

504
00:31:01,200 --> 00:31:05,200
Speaker 1: Lee Bush at the time was the executive financial director

505
00:31:05,280 --> 00:31:09,480
Speaker 1: of General Motors. Very well to do suspect. Yeah, a

506
00:31:09,560 --> 00:31:13,239
Speaker 1: family of well to do people. Um, let's see. At

507
00:31:13,240 --> 00:31:17,479
Speaker 1: the time, there was this place called Brother Paul's Children's Mission,

508
00:31:17,520 --> 00:31:21,960
Speaker 1: which was located on North Fox Island in Lake Michigan.

509
00:31:22,520 --> 00:31:25,040
Speaker 1: So I don't want to get too much in the geography.

510
00:31:25,120 --> 00:31:27,920
Speaker 1: But if if you're looking at a picture of Michigan

511
00:31:28,120 --> 00:31:30,920
Speaker 1: and you're just looking at the north nor northern tip

512
00:31:30,960 --> 00:31:32,840
Speaker 1: of it, if you go a little bit to the west,

513
00:31:32,880 --> 00:31:36,360
Speaker 1: that's where North and South Fox Islands are. And this

514
00:31:36,440 --> 00:31:41,440
Speaker 1: was a front for an underground child porn network where

515
00:31:41,480 --> 00:31:44,080
Speaker 1: all the terrible things that happened to children within one

516
00:31:44,120 --> 00:31:47,280
Speaker 1: of those they were occurring on this island. And there

517
00:31:47,360 --> 00:31:50,280
Speaker 1: was an investigation into this, this ring of people who

518
00:31:50,280 --> 00:31:53,600
Speaker 1: were making child pornography, and this guy, Christopher Bush was

519
00:31:53,640 --> 00:31:57,160
Speaker 1: caught up in it. They commiscated eight rolls of film

520
00:31:57,200 --> 00:32:00,000
Speaker 1: from this guy. He was twenty five at the time,

521
00:32:00,120 --> 00:32:03,960
Speaker 1: so young enough to be very active, yes, But then

522
00:32:04,040 --> 00:32:06,920
Speaker 1: you know he ends up getting arrested again for some

523
00:32:06,960 --> 00:32:11,239
Speaker 1: more criminal sexual conduct involving children with someone with some

524
00:32:11,280 --> 00:32:14,200
Speaker 1: other dude named Gregory Green. But where it gets a

525
00:32:14,200 --> 00:32:19,080
Speaker 1: little crazy here is that Gregory Green ended up being

526
00:32:19,120 --> 00:32:21,760
Speaker 1: held on a seventy five dollar bond. But this guy,

527
00:32:21,880 --> 00:32:25,520
Speaker 1: Christopher he got off every He didn't get out completely,

528
00:32:25,560 --> 00:32:28,040
Speaker 1: but he got away with a one thousand dollar bond.

529
00:32:28,760 --> 00:32:34,000
Speaker 1: And you know, you imagine having powerful, rich family maybe

530
00:32:34,000 --> 00:32:37,360
Speaker 1: that helped out there. So he was arrested in February

531
00:32:37,400 --> 00:32:41,040
Speaker 1: of seventy seven, but the murders continue till March. Yes,

532
00:32:41,640 --> 00:32:45,440
Speaker 1: and there was a sheriff, like a nearby sheriff department.

533
00:32:45,640 --> 00:32:48,080
Speaker 1: They got a phone call that this guy was seen

534
00:32:48,400 --> 00:32:53,000
Speaker 1: by just a neighbor or something at a cottage I

535
00:32:53,000 --> 00:32:55,920
Speaker 1: guess that the family owned that was quite a bit

536
00:32:56,040 --> 00:32:59,640
Speaker 1: north of where the family's main house was. And this

537
00:32:59,680 --> 00:33:02,760
Speaker 1: person knew that this guy bush was not supposed to

538
00:33:02,760 --> 00:33:05,920
Speaker 1: be around miners, around kids, and he was apparently hanging

539
00:33:05,920 --> 00:33:08,600
Speaker 1: out at this cottage with them. And this was on

540
00:33:08,720 --> 00:33:12,800
Speaker 1: March nineteen. And here's the thing. The final victim, Timothy King,

541
00:33:13,000 --> 00:33:16,840
Speaker 1: went missing from March sixteen until March twenty two when

542
00:33:16,840 --> 00:33:21,840
Speaker 1: his body was found. And what happened to Christopher bush

543
00:33:21,880 --> 00:33:25,959
Speaker 1: Well ben According to his death certificate, this guy died

544
00:33:26,280 --> 00:33:30,640
Speaker 1: by committing suicide on November twentieth, nineteen seventy eight, when

545
00:33:30,640 --> 00:33:33,520
Speaker 1: he was twenty seven years old, so just about a

546
00:33:33,600 --> 00:33:39,520
Speaker 1: year after these killings had stopped, these four killings, and

547
00:33:39,720 --> 00:33:41,640
Speaker 1: I don't know, it's not weird, I guess, but his

548
00:33:41,720 --> 00:33:44,720
Speaker 1: body was cremated and the house where he lived with

549
00:33:44,760 --> 00:33:47,200
Speaker 1: his parents was then sold off very soon after. You

550
00:33:47,200 --> 00:33:52,360
Speaker 1: can understand why survivors would want to forget that memory. Yes,

551
00:33:52,680 --> 00:33:55,720
Speaker 1: even just from the previous you know times, the things

552
00:33:55,720 --> 00:33:58,080
Speaker 1: he had gotten in trouble for right, even if he

553
00:33:58,160 --> 00:34:00,440
Speaker 1: wasn't the killer of these children. And he's not the

554
00:34:00,440 --> 00:34:03,920
Speaker 1: only suspect. No. Next we have Francis D. Sheldon, who

555
00:34:03,960 --> 00:34:07,880
Speaker 1: was a well known multi millionaire actually from an immensely

556
00:34:08,040 --> 00:34:12,440
Speaker 1: wealthy family who were the sole owners of North Fox

557
00:34:12,600 --> 00:34:16,359
Speaker 1: islandber that island pretty pretty high up on the hog.

558
00:34:16,400 --> 00:34:18,120
Speaker 1: If you own an island, no, I do not. This

559
00:34:18,160 --> 00:34:21,120
Speaker 1: is the island that had brother Paul's children's mission on it,

560
00:34:21,200 --> 00:34:23,560
Speaker 1: that was a front for a child porn ring. Oh

561
00:34:23,600 --> 00:34:28,200
Speaker 1: my gosh, interesting yikes. Sheldon fled the country to the

562
00:34:28,200 --> 00:34:32,760
Speaker 1: Netherlands to avoid charges of sexual misconduct to adolescent boys

563
00:34:32,840 --> 00:34:36,360
Speaker 1: from Port her On told family members that Francis Sheldon

564
00:34:36,400 --> 00:34:41,120
Speaker 1: had molested and photographed them on this island. Evidence taken

565
00:34:41,160 --> 00:34:45,759
Speaker 1: from child porn magazines showed children with a background identified

566
00:34:45,960 --> 00:34:49,799
Speaker 1: as being in the North Fox Island right, verifying that

567
00:34:49,800 --> 00:34:52,359
Speaker 1: the boys had been to the island, And there were

568
00:34:52,360 --> 00:34:56,719
Speaker 1: reports of Sheldon's death that surfaced in nine um and

569
00:34:56,800 --> 00:34:59,440
Speaker 1: a Michigan warrant for him was canceled in May of

570
00:34:59,560 --> 00:35:05,040
Speaker 1: nineteen at with state police reporting quote exceptional clearance, suspect

571
00:35:05,200 --> 00:35:10,080
Speaker 1: is dead and cannot be prosecuted, but was obviously involved, right.

572
00:35:10,840 --> 00:35:13,719
Speaker 1: I mean that's you're starting to see a picture here

573
00:35:14,520 --> 00:35:19,560
Speaker 1: of perhaps a group of people who were, you know,

574
00:35:19,840 --> 00:35:23,160
Speaker 1: doing terrible things to children on an island and then

575
00:35:23,200 --> 00:35:29,239
Speaker 1: possibly which is Pedophile rings are unfortunately often dismissed as

576
00:35:29,280 --> 00:35:34,240
Speaker 1: crackpot conspiracy theories, but there is hard evidence that they

577
00:35:34,360 --> 00:35:39,239
Speaker 1: have existed. One needn't look no further than Jimmy Saville

578
00:35:39,600 --> 00:35:42,839
Speaker 1: and wonder which of his current living friends will be

579
00:35:42,960 --> 00:35:48,520
Speaker 1: posthumously exposed as yet another monster. Just a side note,

580
00:35:48,960 --> 00:35:53,440
Speaker 1: and most importantly this ties into a future episode. No spoilers, Uh.

581
00:35:53,600 --> 00:35:58,480
Speaker 1: There are people who are concerned that Sheldon and some

582
00:35:58,560 --> 00:36:02,960
Speaker 1: of his associates did not actually die, but that they

583
00:36:03,320 --> 00:36:08,960
Speaker 1: switched identities. And we will have an upcoming episode that

584
00:36:09,040 --> 00:36:14,399
Speaker 1: looks at how possible, plausible or impossible implausible it is

585
00:36:14,520 --> 00:36:18,200
Speaker 1: to fake one's death. It's gonna be fascinating. I can't

586
00:36:18,200 --> 00:36:20,200
Speaker 1: wait for you to hear it. Over the years, several

587
00:36:20,280 --> 00:36:23,400
Speaker 1: lawsuits have been filed against the Oakland County Prosecutor's Office

588
00:36:23,440 --> 00:36:26,200
Speaker 1: by the victims families. Most of these come from a

589
00:36:26,200 --> 00:36:29,279
Speaker 1: guy named Barry King, the father of Timothy King, and

590
00:36:29,400 --> 00:36:33,000
Speaker 1: deal with what are called Freedom of Information Act or

591
00:36:33,120 --> 00:36:36,160
Speaker 1: f o I, a request because he feels like he

592
00:36:36,239 --> 00:36:41,120
Speaker 1: has been denied the information regarding the Timothy King case,

593
00:36:41,160 --> 00:36:46,680
Speaker 1: specifically by law enforcement. Yeah, pertaining to the suspects that

594
00:36:46,760 --> 00:36:50,799
Speaker 1: we outlined there. And just a side note this, if

595
00:36:50,840 --> 00:36:53,640
Speaker 1: you want to learn more about this, I would caution

596
00:36:53,680 --> 00:36:55,839
Speaker 1: you away from it just because it is a dark,

597
00:36:55,920 --> 00:37:01,279
Speaker 1: dark place to go. But if you do want to um,

598
00:37:01,320 --> 00:37:05,279
Speaker 1: there are places you can find information. Katherine Broad who

599
00:37:05,360 --> 00:37:08,760
Speaker 1: is one of the sisters of the victims. Uh, Timothy

600
00:37:08,840 --> 00:37:12,120
Speaker 1: King was her brother. She's got a website Katherine Broad

601
00:37:12,239 --> 00:37:15,440
Speaker 1: b r O a d dot blog. There's a documentary

602
00:37:15,480 --> 00:37:18,040
Speaker 1: called Decades of Deceit that was produced by the King family.

603
00:37:18,200 --> 00:37:20,880
Speaker 1: And there's a Reddit user named o c c K

604
00:37:21,040 --> 00:37:24,120
Speaker 1: Throwaway that made these four really long in depth posts

605
00:37:24,160 --> 00:37:27,239
Speaker 1: where you can their links galore there and you can

606
00:37:27,280 --> 00:37:32,040
Speaker 1: just follow the rabbit hole to your own insanity. And

607
00:37:32,120 --> 00:37:37,359
Speaker 1: speaking of insanity and rabbit holes, let's continue a bit further. Uh, Well,

608
00:37:37,400 --> 00:37:42,080
Speaker 1: I believe you will like this moniker, the freeway Phantom.

609
00:37:42,120 --> 00:37:44,160
Speaker 1: You know, it's a shame that it went to such

610
00:37:44,160 --> 00:37:47,400
Speaker 1: a monstrous person, because I would love to, you know,

611
00:37:48,040 --> 00:37:50,600
Speaker 1: have a friend known as the freeway Phantom because they

612
00:37:50,600 --> 00:37:53,960
Speaker 1: were good at a smuggling course, like in Smoking the

613
00:37:54,000 --> 00:37:56,320
Speaker 1: Bandit or something. Yeah, are they ghost rode the whip

614
00:37:56,400 --> 00:38:00,960
Speaker 1: like to perfection Phantom? Oh? You know there could be

615
00:38:01,000 --> 00:38:04,480
Speaker 1: a whole phantom squad of Phantom cadre. Well, here's what happened.

616
00:38:04,480 --> 00:38:09,320
Speaker 1: In this case. An unidentified assailant abducted, sexually assaulted, and

617
00:38:09,440 --> 00:38:14,200
Speaker 1: strangled six female youths in Washington, d C. From April

618
00:38:14,239 --> 00:38:17,759
Speaker 1: of seventy one through September seventy two. The victims were

619
00:38:17,800 --> 00:38:20,600
Speaker 1: all African American girls. They were all between the ages

620
00:38:20,640 --> 00:38:24,759
Speaker 1: of ten and eighteen. The phantom left hand written notes too,

621
00:38:25,320 --> 00:38:29,239
Speaker 1: and statements from victims before their deaths heavily implied the

622
00:38:29,360 --> 00:38:33,560
Speaker 1: killer was a white male, and it was very very

623
00:38:33,560 --> 00:38:37,800
Speaker 1: hard to track this. In these cases, allegations of police

624
00:38:38,200 --> 00:38:43,040
Speaker 1: UH not putting in enough effort repeatedly surfaced. We saw

625
00:38:43,080 --> 00:38:47,520
Speaker 1: some similar things like this with the Atlanta UH strangulations

626
00:38:47,560 --> 00:38:54,040
Speaker 1: of child murders, possibly right for which in Atlanta, Wayne

627
00:38:54,040 --> 00:38:58,600
Speaker 1: Williams is currently incarcerated. So this is a case where

628
00:38:58,600 --> 00:39:04,359
Speaker 1: investigators feel like they had the person they traced. This

629
00:39:04,400 --> 00:39:09,080
Speaker 1: is very grizzly stuff. They they started looking at people

630
00:39:09,080 --> 00:39:11,960
Speaker 1: who would have similar m os. Right, that's the first

631
00:39:12,000 --> 00:39:14,520
Speaker 1: thing you do. Has is there any legal is there

632
00:39:14,560 --> 00:39:17,200
Speaker 1: anybody in the legal system that has been proven to

633
00:39:17,480 --> 00:39:22,640
Speaker 1: already have either the wherewithal or the motivation to commit

634
00:39:22,680 --> 00:39:27,800
Speaker 1: these sorts of horrendous acts. And they immediately gravitated towards

635
00:39:27,880 --> 00:39:31,719
Speaker 1: members of a group called the Green Vega Game. Law

636
00:39:31,800 --> 00:39:34,520
Speaker 1: enforcement officials involved with the case believed that four men

637
00:39:34,880 --> 00:39:39,240
Speaker 1: who are involved in hundreds hundreds of rapes from nineteen

638
00:39:39,280 --> 00:39:43,640
Speaker 1: sixty to nine seventy three were implicated in the child murders,

639
00:39:43,800 --> 00:39:46,680
Speaker 1: but they weren't convicted, and as he said, they were

640
00:39:46,719 --> 00:39:50,400
Speaker 1: collectively just four guys collectively responsible for these crimes in

641
00:39:50,520 --> 00:39:53,960
Speaker 1: d c and in Maryland, and they were also involved

642
00:39:54,280 --> 00:40:01,480
Speaker 1: in abductions. So the police Individu Julie interviewed these gang

643
00:40:01,520 --> 00:40:05,040
Speaker 1: members and then they visit a prison in Lorton, Virginia,

644
00:40:05,320 --> 00:40:11,960
Speaker 1: where the gang members were serving sentences due to unrelated convictions.

645
00:40:12,080 --> 00:40:15,280
Speaker 1: Right during the interviews, this is weird. One gang member

646
00:40:15,320 --> 00:40:20,080
Speaker 1: initially implicated another member and said, well, this guy said

647
00:40:20,120 --> 00:40:22,000
Speaker 1: he did it, and here's how he told me he

648
00:40:22,080 --> 00:40:26,080
Speaker 1: did it. And the thing is, uh, both inmates were

649
00:40:26,120 --> 00:40:31,040
Speaker 1: serving time at this same prison, and the one who

650
00:40:31,080 --> 00:40:33,080
Speaker 1: was giving the info said, well, I'll tell you the

651
00:40:33,080 --> 00:40:36,560
Speaker 1: whole story, but only if I remain anonymous. So he

652
00:40:36,640 --> 00:40:39,160
Speaker 1: identified the inmate who told him the story, the time

653
00:40:39,200 --> 00:40:42,839
Speaker 1: and the location of the crime, and certain specific details

654
00:40:43,000 --> 00:40:45,960
Speaker 1: which were not provided to the public, but which were

655
00:40:46,000 --> 00:40:49,359
Speaker 1: known only as far as the cops could figure out

656
00:40:50,680 --> 00:40:54,239
Speaker 1: to the detectives and to the freeway phantom. So the

657
00:40:54,280 --> 00:40:58,440
Speaker 1: information checked out. So they found their guy, right, the

658
00:40:58,560 --> 00:41:02,399
Speaker 1: guy that this one per when they interviewed, pointing at right. Yeah,

659
00:41:02,440 --> 00:41:05,560
Speaker 1: but that's that's like, um, it's not quite a smoking gun,

660
00:41:06,200 --> 00:41:10,120
Speaker 1: but that is very close to smoking gun, where you know,

661
00:41:10,200 --> 00:41:14,320
Speaker 1: if if just the investigators and then right, because there's

662
00:41:14,360 --> 00:41:19,080
Speaker 1: no you can't really count on somebody wild guessing specific

663
00:41:21,040 --> 00:41:23,399
Speaker 1: Here's the problem though, here's why he's still on the list.

664
00:41:23,719 --> 00:41:27,120
Speaker 1: Because they had amassed all this evidence and they were

665
00:41:27,160 --> 00:41:31,480
Speaker 1: ready to move, but then something happened. The case files

666
00:41:31,520 --> 00:41:36,560
Speaker 1: were lost and then like everything gone, poof, poof, goodbye.

667
00:41:38,400 --> 00:41:44,360
Speaker 1: How does that even happen. Isn't that somebody was inside

668
00:41:44,480 --> 00:41:48,279
Speaker 1: right just in the seventies. Yeah, I mean, you know,

669
00:41:48,560 --> 00:41:51,000
Speaker 1: it's still all paper, all paper, So I mean they

670
00:41:51,080 --> 00:41:54,120
Speaker 1: you know, and I'm sure they have duplicates on some level,

671
00:41:54,200 --> 00:41:56,600
Speaker 1: but it wouldn't be that much of a stretch to

672
00:41:57,760 --> 00:42:01,600
Speaker 1: have them find their way into are some sort. But

673
00:42:01,680 --> 00:42:03,520
Speaker 1: it sounds like intentional to me, is I guess that

674
00:42:03,560 --> 00:42:05,640
Speaker 1: is what I'm getting at, you know, because all of

675
00:42:05,680 --> 00:42:10,200
Speaker 1: the files, you know, especially when you consider how much

676
00:42:10,200 --> 00:42:12,880
Speaker 1: paperwork they had to generate in the course of this

677
00:42:13,000 --> 00:42:18,440
Speaker 1: kind of investigation, people with you know, stacks and stacks

678
00:42:18,440 --> 00:42:21,839
Speaker 1: of rap sheets alone, unrelated and they all know each

679
00:42:21,880 --> 00:42:27,360
Speaker 1: other and they're like children. So of course the community

680
00:42:27,440 --> 00:42:30,040
Speaker 1: to this day doesn't buy that. This gets me starting

681
00:42:30,080 --> 00:42:34,120
Speaker 1: to think about serial killer cults. Yeah, yeah, he is.

682
00:42:34,160 --> 00:42:36,240
Speaker 1: Well I don't want to think about that, you guys.

683
00:42:37,280 --> 00:42:40,080
Speaker 1: More nightmare stuff for me. Well, if they exist, they

684
00:42:40,080 --> 00:42:42,880
Speaker 1: don't want you to think about it either. Good for

685
00:42:42,920 --> 00:42:46,280
Speaker 1: they put hair on your chest, No they don't, you're smooth, smooth,

686
00:42:46,920 --> 00:42:49,040
Speaker 1: baby like chest. I don't want them to put peep

687
00:42:49,160 --> 00:42:52,879
Speaker 1: in my bed because then I might be a serial killer. Yeah,

688
00:42:52,920 --> 00:42:55,319
Speaker 1: so that's that's what happened with that one, But we

689
00:42:55,360 --> 00:42:56,759
Speaker 1: have next. Can I say this one because I just

690
00:42:56,800 --> 00:42:59,160
Speaker 1: love saying yeah, yeah, give it a shot. The Maniac

691
00:42:59,640 --> 00:43:04,920
Speaker 1: of of Ah spiritsk the Maniac of Novah spears. So

692
00:43:06,000 --> 00:43:09,080
Speaker 1: this is uh, this is an interesting case. This is

693
00:43:09,120 --> 00:43:15,600
Speaker 1: more recent. There were seventeen women murdered between two thousand

694
00:43:15,719 --> 00:43:19,440
Speaker 1: six very specific m o in a town in Russia

695
00:43:19,520 --> 00:43:25,160
Speaker 1: called The victims were found on the outskirts of town.

696
00:43:25,200 --> 00:43:31,360
Speaker 1: They were mutilated in decapitated, dismembered symbols were carved into

697
00:43:31,400 --> 00:43:34,080
Speaker 1: their bodies, and in every case their hearts were removed.

698
00:43:34,360 --> 00:43:38,439
Speaker 1: Often this disfigurement was so extreme that law enforcement could

699
00:43:38,480 --> 00:43:44,920
Speaker 1: not identify the body's fingerprints, gone dental in any any teeth,

700
00:43:45,080 --> 00:43:51,839
Speaker 1: probably knocked out, tattoos, scraped off the skin. Okay, they

701
00:43:51,840 --> 00:43:53,920
Speaker 1: had a few things in common. They were all women,

702
00:43:54,080 --> 00:43:57,759
Speaker 1: they're all locals, and they were all prostitutes. In two

703
00:43:57,800 --> 00:44:02,000
Speaker 1: thousand and six, for some reason, the killings just stopped.

704
00:44:02,600 --> 00:44:05,560
Speaker 1: And that is something that's extraordinarily rare. In the case

705
00:44:05,600 --> 00:44:08,320
Speaker 1: of the babysitter, you know, we saw a very short

706
00:44:08,440 --> 00:44:15,440
Speaker 1: thirteen month period right with four known victims, But that

707
00:44:15,440 --> 00:44:20,120
Speaker 1: that leads us to believe that if circumstances hadn't changed,

708
00:44:20,640 --> 00:44:24,680
Speaker 1: those killings would have continued. So it's very strange for

709
00:44:24,719 --> 00:44:28,040
Speaker 1: this stuff to stop. The murderer disappeared, and this led

710
00:44:28,080 --> 00:44:32,360
Speaker 1: police to believe something that there are usually three common

711
00:44:32,440 --> 00:44:35,640
Speaker 1: things that happened, three common explanations when a serial killer

712
00:44:36,200 --> 00:44:39,480
Speaker 1: or a series of murders stops occurring, and the police

713
00:44:39,520 --> 00:44:44,320
Speaker 1: will always assume, well that killers maybe moved, or they've died,

714
00:44:43,680 --> 00:44:48,480
Speaker 1: or have been arrested on another crime. Right, And in

715
00:44:48,520 --> 00:44:51,680
Speaker 1: this case, they still continued to hunt for the killer,

716
00:44:52,239 --> 00:44:58,680
Speaker 1: and they found really interesting series of suspects UM and

717
00:44:59,040 --> 00:45:03,480
Speaker 1: two thousand and fifteen, the police arrested a cab driver

718
00:45:03,600 --> 00:45:07,160
Speaker 1: by the name of Alexei Ivanov on suspicion of the

719
00:45:07,200 --> 00:45:11,200
Speaker 1: murders UM. He instead confessed to a series of unrelated

720
00:45:11,280 --> 00:45:15,200
Speaker 1: murders also all women. Yeah, I mean, I guess where

721
00:45:15,200 --> 00:45:18,400
Speaker 1: there's smoke, there's fire. So what we're saying here is

722
00:45:18,440 --> 00:45:22,440
Speaker 1: that apparently Nova's bearrisk is a is a pretty pretty

723
00:45:22,440 --> 00:45:26,280
Speaker 1: tough neighborhood. You know. Can you imagine that you're searching

724
00:45:26,320 --> 00:45:28,560
Speaker 1: for one serial killer, which is already so rare, and

725
00:45:28,560 --> 00:45:31,560
Speaker 1: in the process you pick up another guy. It's like, well, yeah,

726
00:45:31,600 --> 00:45:35,080
Speaker 1: I killed. Of course I killed a series of not

727
00:45:35,080 --> 00:45:37,600
Speaker 1: not those not those though those aren't those aren't mine.

728
00:45:37,640 --> 00:45:39,840
Speaker 1: It's probably like one of those small towns in like

729
00:45:39,920 --> 00:45:43,640
Speaker 1: British cop shows where there's a serial murderer like a

730
00:45:43,680 --> 00:45:46,680
Speaker 1: week you know, right, Yeah, that's the weirdest thing about

731
00:45:46,680 --> 00:45:50,240
Speaker 1: Suspension of Disbelief. Yeah, you know, it's a small town.

732
00:45:50,600 --> 00:45:54,000
Speaker 1: Everybody still leaves their doors unlocked, despite the fact that

733
00:45:54,400 --> 00:45:58,520
Speaker 1: about once every year or so someone kills twenty people.

734
00:45:58,960 --> 00:46:01,279
Speaker 1: Not only that, Like you can even go further where

735
00:46:01,280 --> 00:46:03,960
Speaker 1: it's like with Scooby Doo, like are they traveling around

736
00:46:04,000 --> 00:46:05,239
Speaker 1: and that show? I mean, I guess they are. They're

737
00:46:05,280 --> 00:46:07,719
Speaker 1: kind of on tour, right, are they a band? It's

738
00:46:07,719 --> 00:46:10,480
Speaker 1: not clear what they do a whole lot of time

739
00:46:10,520 --> 00:46:14,080
Speaker 1: on the mythology. No, it's been a while for me. Yeah,

740
00:46:14,120 --> 00:46:16,239
Speaker 1: at least with jabber Jar, like they were definitely a band,

741
00:46:16,239 --> 00:46:17,960
Speaker 1: you know, jabber Jar was totally like a one to

742
00:46:18,080 --> 00:46:20,520
Speaker 1: one of Scooby Doo. They solved that they had like

743
00:46:20,680 --> 00:46:24,120
Speaker 1: they had the talking animal with a speech impediment, even

744
00:46:24,160 --> 00:46:26,960
Speaker 1: like I think Dude War and Ascott and Jabbage too. Anyway,

745
00:46:27,000 --> 00:46:29,239
Speaker 1: we digress back to the Grizzly stuff. You see what

746
00:46:29,239 --> 00:46:31,000
Speaker 1: I'm trying. I'm trying to d I'm trying to derail

747
00:46:31,040 --> 00:46:34,160
Speaker 1: this a little bit because this is just so darn upsetting.

748
00:46:34,239 --> 00:46:37,520
Speaker 1: But we will sally forth. There was a different suspect. Yeah,

749
00:46:37,520 --> 00:46:39,920
Speaker 1: so there was, in fact another suspect. In twenty sixteen,

750
00:46:40,400 --> 00:46:44,120
Speaker 1: police arrested a former cop by the name of Evani

751
00:46:44,480 --> 00:46:48,759
Speaker 1: Choopliss Misan. Forgive my utter garbage pronunciation there, I'm doing

752
00:46:48,800 --> 00:46:53,600
Speaker 1: the best I can. Um. This individual was suspected of

753
00:46:53,640 --> 00:46:57,200
Speaker 1: the murders, though he had yet to be convicted. Um.

754
00:46:57,200 --> 00:47:00,400
Speaker 1: And here's a little interesting twisty side note. I'm not

755
00:47:00,400 --> 00:47:02,319
Speaker 1: going to say his name again, tell you that right now?

756
00:47:03,400 --> 00:47:06,279
Speaker 1: What couldn't call him Mr T. Mr T not to

757
00:47:06,360 --> 00:47:08,520
Speaker 1: be confused with the Mr T. This is the Russian

758
00:47:08,600 --> 00:47:11,279
Speaker 1: Mr T. For the purposes of our show. Mr T

759
00:47:11,520 --> 00:47:15,319
Speaker 1: was arrested by Russia's Ministry of Internal Affairs, which I

760
00:47:15,320 --> 00:47:18,320
Speaker 1: guess means that he was under investigation as a dirty

761
00:47:18,360 --> 00:47:22,879
Speaker 1: cop potentially, um, not local law enforcement. Right, So that's

762
00:47:22,960 --> 00:47:25,960
Speaker 1: I think that's the thing. So the trial laundry internally

763
00:47:26,280 --> 00:47:29,840
Speaker 1: exactly exactly, but on a federal level, on a federal

764
00:47:29,920 --> 00:47:33,280
Speaker 1: level exactly. So the trial um is in fact moving

765
00:47:33,360 --> 00:47:37,520
Speaker 1: forward and while the ministry is almost certain that this

766
00:47:37,600 --> 00:47:40,200
Speaker 1: is their guy, um, he has yet to be convicted,

767
00:47:40,239 --> 00:47:42,719
Speaker 1: even though DNA was found on some of the prostitutes,

768
00:47:42,760 --> 00:47:46,239
Speaker 1: which he explains as a result of him spending a

769
00:47:46,280 --> 00:47:50,120
Speaker 1: lot of time with prostitutes while on dutyous. Yeah, one

770
00:47:50,160 --> 00:47:53,759
Speaker 1: of the one of the way he explained it is, um.

771
00:47:54,080 --> 00:47:57,000
Speaker 1: You know, I have to have my irritual street. You know,

772
00:47:57,160 --> 00:47:59,680
Speaker 1: I have to know who is going where, who is

773
00:48:00,000 --> 00:48:03,520
Speaker 1: having drunk I go find drunk driver. Maybe he gives

774
00:48:03,560 --> 00:48:06,880
Speaker 1: me a bribe, skip some paperwork. So he painted it

775
00:48:07,239 --> 00:48:12,560
Speaker 1: as sort of his unofficial job duties right deep deep

776
00:48:12,600 --> 00:48:15,799
Speaker 1: cover as it were apparently right. And then at one

777
00:48:15,840 --> 00:48:19,359
Speaker 1: point he confessed he and he said that he did

778
00:48:19,360 --> 00:48:23,080
Speaker 1: the symbols on purpose, and this was actually in a

779
00:48:23,120 --> 00:48:27,160
Speaker 1: brutal calculation. This was actually pretty smart on his behalf,

780
00:48:27,160 --> 00:48:29,000
Speaker 1: because if he was a police officer, he knew how

781
00:48:29,000 --> 00:48:32,640
Speaker 1: to hide evidence or he should have UM, and he

782
00:48:32,800 --> 00:48:36,880
Speaker 1: wanted the murders to look a cult or satanic in nature.

783
00:48:37,680 --> 00:48:40,360
Speaker 1: And he said he wanted to, you know, have a

784
00:48:40,400 --> 00:48:44,000
Speaker 1: red herring for the police. But then later he recanted

785
00:48:44,200 --> 00:48:47,480
Speaker 1: and he said, no, I did that under pressure. If

786
00:48:47,480 --> 00:48:51,200
Speaker 1: a Vegni Chuplinski or Mr t is convicted, he would

787
00:48:51,200 --> 00:48:53,359
Speaker 1: be another example of the killer who appeared to get

788
00:48:53,360 --> 00:48:58,080
Speaker 1: away only to be captured months, years, or even decades later.

789
00:48:58,840 --> 00:49:02,240
Speaker 1: And this lets us end on a little bit less

790
00:49:02,880 --> 00:49:07,839
Speaker 1: of a bleak note, because these sorts of killers, well

791
00:49:08,000 --> 00:49:11,040
Speaker 1: they may get away for a long time, are often

792
00:49:11,640 --> 00:49:16,200
Speaker 1: apprehended one way or another. And we'll tell you about

793
00:49:16,239 --> 00:49:29,400
Speaker 1: just a few after a word from our sponsor, and

794
00:49:29,680 --> 00:49:31,800
Speaker 1: we're back, you know, on a site note just to

795
00:49:31,880 --> 00:49:34,360
Speaker 1: keep his lighte which I think is a good move. Um.

796
00:49:34,400 --> 00:49:36,759
Speaker 1: One thing that always got to me about Scooby Doo

797
00:49:37,680 --> 00:49:40,440
Speaker 1: is how it's so rarely turned out to be supernatural,

798
00:49:41,120 --> 00:49:43,800
Speaker 1: always bothering me. Well, no, I mean in the original series,

799
00:49:43,840 --> 00:49:47,000
Speaker 1: it was never supernatural. It was always some always old

800
00:49:47,040 --> 00:49:51,319
Speaker 1: man from the haunted amusement park or whatever. It wasn't

801
00:49:51,400 --> 00:49:54,480
Speaker 1: until like the twenty one Ghost of Scooby Doo with

802
00:49:54,560 --> 00:49:56,960
Speaker 1: Vincent Price, where it was there were definitely ghosts in

803
00:49:57,000 --> 00:49:59,120
Speaker 1: that when there were other iterations of the show where

804
00:49:59,120 --> 00:50:02,239
Speaker 1: there were super natural elements, but the original series, and

805
00:50:02,560 --> 00:50:04,920
Speaker 1: you think they'd eventually catch on and stop getting spooked

806
00:50:06,400 --> 00:50:12,080
Speaker 1: because or at least start discriminating against their profiling old guys,

807
00:50:12,239 --> 00:50:15,360
Speaker 1: old white guys, you know what I mean? Sometimes women.

808
00:50:15,680 --> 00:50:21,279
Speaker 1: Maybe it was a cautionary tale, uh, for you know,

809
00:50:21,680 --> 00:50:25,080
Speaker 1: old white guys. For kids. Speaking of older white guys

810
00:50:25,160 --> 00:50:28,319
Speaker 1: was vans and vans. Although I would still drive a

811
00:50:28,360 --> 00:50:30,800
Speaker 1: custom van like that. I don't care about the mileage.

812
00:50:31,000 --> 00:50:33,640
Speaker 1: I want one of the wizard on it. I want

813
00:50:33,640 --> 00:50:35,920
Speaker 1: one that's decked out like a studio apartment, you know,

814
00:50:36,640 --> 00:50:39,200
Speaker 1: but with windows so people don't think I'm a serial killer.

815
00:50:39,360 --> 00:50:41,400
Speaker 1: I want to torture rack in mind, you want to

816
00:50:41,400 --> 00:50:45,560
Speaker 1: torture wreck dude, we should make a convoy. Sorry. That

817
00:50:45,640 --> 00:50:48,000
Speaker 1: was when I took taking it light a step too far.

818
00:50:48,800 --> 00:50:53,440
Speaker 1: That's what happens when keeping it light goes awry. Uh.

819
00:50:53,480 --> 00:50:56,720
Speaker 1: So here's someone who things would arrived for this character.

820
00:50:57,600 --> 00:51:01,279
Speaker 1: If you read about serial oilers, than you probably read

821
00:51:01,320 --> 00:51:03,800
Speaker 1: a few years back about a killer known as b

822
00:51:04,000 --> 00:51:07,480
Speaker 1: t K, which stands for bind Torture Killed. This is

823
00:51:07,560 --> 00:51:13,680
Speaker 1: a self appointed nickname. Uh. This person was actually named

824
00:51:13,719 --> 00:51:18,200
Speaker 1: Dennis Radar and from nineteen seventy four to nineteen well,

825
00:51:18,239 --> 00:51:22,239
Speaker 1: from nineteen seventy four to nineteen seventy nine, he had

826
00:51:22,480 --> 00:51:28,200
Speaker 1: killed ten people in total. Collected items totems, fetishes, relics, trophies,

827
00:51:28,239 --> 00:51:30,719
Speaker 1: I guess the best way to say it from each

828
00:51:30,800 --> 00:51:34,040
Speaker 1: murder scene. And he wrote numerous letters taunting the police.

829
00:51:34,080 --> 00:51:38,080
Speaker 1: But then he underwent a dormant period. And here's the

830
00:51:38,120 --> 00:51:42,920
Speaker 1: weirdest part on Dennis Dennis's radar's career as a serial killer.

831
00:51:44,280 --> 00:51:48,800
Speaker 1: If he had not been drawn back by apparently fame

832
00:51:48,840 --> 00:51:51,480
Speaker 1: and ego, then he would have been fine. And he

833
00:51:51,520 --> 00:51:55,799
Speaker 1: would have continued working at the church that he worked at,

834
00:51:56,160 --> 00:52:01,640
Speaker 1: and he or something veterinarian's office, uh, and just eventually

835
00:52:01,920 --> 00:52:05,640
Speaker 1: make a deathbed confession or be something. His family would

836
00:52:05,960 --> 00:52:08,040
Speaker 1: find all this stuff after his death. But he could

837
00:52:08,080 --> 00:52:11,399
Speaker 1: not resist writing another series of taunting letters about how

838
00:52:11,400 --> 00:52:14,080
Speaker 1: he fully planned to commit another murder in two thousand

839
00:52:14,080 --> 00:52:17,960
Speaker 1: and four. Because he was inept, he sent correspondence that

840
00:52:18,080 --> 00:52:21,560
Speaker 1: was easy to trace. H. He actually at one point

841
00:52:21,600 --> 00:52:24,880
Speaker 1: asked law enforcement if it was possible for them to

842
00:52:25,120 --> 00:52:29,080
Speaker 1: trace him based on you know, sending uh, like a

843
00:52:29,160 --> 00:52:32,600
Speaker 1: three point five disc. You know, everybody was younger in

844
00:52:32,640 --> 00:52:36,560
Speaker 1: the crowd. Um. If you look at the save button

845
00:52:37,000 --> 00:52:41,839
Speaker 1: on your Microsoft Word, that's an image of those three

846
00:52:41,840 --> 00:52:45,200
Speaker 1: point five discs, which I think people will forget over time.

847
00:52:45,600 --> 00:52:49,080
Speaker 1: But they said, yeah, there's no way we can do that,

848
00:52:49,360 --> 00:52:51,440
Speaker 1: and they totally did, and they found the address and

849
00:52:51,480 --> 00:52:53,560
Speaker 1: there was a matter of time before he found him.

850
00:52:53,600 --> 00:52:56,040
Speaker 1: He didn't fit a lot of the supposed profiles of

851
00:52:56,080 --> 00:52:59,680
Speaker 1: serial killers. That's why he can't find them. He was

852
00:52:59,719 --> 00:53:03,040
Speaker 1: the sleep man and it was a family man who

853
00:53:03,120 --> 00:53:06,040
Speaker 1: had a lot of internal issues. But he is locked up,

854
00:53:06,280 --> 00:53:08,640
Speaker 1: is under the jail. This is not the UK. They

855
00:53:08,640 --> 00:53:11,879
Speaker 1: don't require a whole life order. He is going to

856
00:53:11,960 --> 00:53:15,279
Speaker 1: die in jail. And then there were other people like

857
00:53:15,560 --> 00:53:19,839
Speaker 1: the Grim Sleeper, Lonnie David Franklin Jr. Believed to re

858
00:53:19,840 --> 00:53:22,680
Speaker 1: responsible for least ten murders in an attempted murder in

859
00:53:22,800 --> 00:53:26,440
Speaker 1: Los Angeles. That sounds like a wrestling name, the Grim Sleeper,

860
00:53:26,560 --> 00:53:29,200
Speaker 1: It really does. It really does, like he teams up

861
00:53:29,200 --> 00:53:32,720
Speaker 1: with the Undertaker or something and he has a special hold. Yeah,

862
00:53:32,840 --> 00:53:35,960
Speaker 1: that's his signature sleeper hold. And now we can now

863
00:53:36,000 --> 00:53:39,200
Speaker 1: we can see stuff like that because he is also apprehended.

864
00:53:39,440 --> 00:53:41,719
Speaker 1: He is also never getting out of jail. The point

865
00:53:41,800 --> 00:53:47,719
Speaker 1: we're making is that these killers do get caught. This

866
00:53:47,800 --> 00:53:51,919
Speaker 1: is not a bleak, hopeless story. In many cases, and

867
00:53:52,719 --> 00:53:55,200
Speaker 1: with just the cases we've looked at now, it provides

868
00:53:55,280 --> 00:53:59,000
Speaker 1: us some more questions than it does answers. Right, So,

869
00:53:59,400 --> 00:54:02,839
Speaker 1: what happened to these folks, the unapprehended ones both from

870
00:54:02,840 --> 00:54:05,120
Speaker 1: Part one and part two. Well, we know that some

871
00:54:05,280 --> 00:54:08,560
Speaker 1: of them are just taken out because they're arrested for

872
00:54:08,840 --> 00:54:12,360
Speaker 1: something else, and they're sitting in a prison cell somewhere

873
00:54:12,840 --> 00:54:16,759
Speaker 1: doing time for burglary or you know, whatever other smaller

874
00:54:16,800 --> 00:54:21,240
Speaker 1: crime they committed, or even maybe a single murder or something.

875
00:54:21,800 --> 00:54:25,239
Speaker 1: We also know that with technology advancing the way it

876
00:54:25,360 --> 00:54:29,280
Speaker 1: is for forensic science, it's more difficult for these guys

877
00:54:29,360 --> 00:54:33,080
Speaker 1: to hide somewhere and do what the BTK killer did

878
00:54:33,120 --> 00:54:38,080
Speaker 1: and just live with a family somewhere else in the world. Eventually,

879
00:54:38,400 --> 00:54:42,279
Speaker 1: if you messed up one time, committing a murder or

880
00:54:42,280 --> 00:54:45,640
Speaker 1: one of these horrible acts, you will probably get caught.

881
00:54:46,440 --> 00:54:49,960
Speaker 1: And and you know, a lot of these people, because

882
00:54:50,320 --> 00:54:52,040
Speaker 1: several of the things we talked about, we're in the

883
00:54:52,040 --> 00:54:56,759
Speaker 1: sixties and seventies, a lot of them have died and

884
00:54:56,760 --> 00:55:00,720
Speaker 1: will probably never be caught. It's yeah, what about Zodiac.

885
00:55:00,760 --> 00:55:03,760
Speaker 1: I think he's still out there. If Zodiac is still

886
00:55:03,800 --> 00:55:08,000
Speaker 1: out there, then is infirmed. Yeah, yeah, then he might

887
00:55:08,040 --> 00:55:10,520
Speaker 1: not even know who the killer is at this point,

888
00:55:10,520 --> 00:55:14,040
Speaker 1: because yeah, it's a scary thing. A lot of what

889
00:55:14,080 --> 00:55:16,400
Speaker 1: you're talking about reminds me of the show The Keepers

890
00:55:16,400 --> 00:55:19,160
Speaker 1: on Netflix. If you haven't seen it and you like

891
00:55:19,320 --> 00:55:23,160
Speaker 1: true crime, it's worth your time. Is it a documentary

892
00:55:23,440 --> 00:55:26,719
Speaker 1: or it is a documentary? If you know this, this

893
00:55:26,760 --> 00:55:31,320
Speaker 1: concept raises an interesting, disturbing a better word of disturbing question.

894
00:55:32,280 --> 00:55:35,400
Speaker 1: If someone's like that is discovered, is it prosecuting the

895
00:55:35,440 --> 00:55:38,800
Speaker 1: same person? Oh, someone with dementia that doesn't even know anymore?

896
00:55:38,920 --> 00:55:43,359
Speaker 1: Some like, let's say someone was convicted ironclad. We know

897
00:55:43,440 --> 00:55:46,520
Speaker 1: they did it of several murders in the nineteen sixties,

898
00:55:46,600 --> 00:55:52,959
Speaker 1: but now they're in their late eighties and it's sad

899
00:55:53,000 --> 00:55:54,799
Speaker 1: to say, but that that it reminds me of what's

900
00:55:54,800 --> 00:55:57,239
Speaker 1: going on with Bill Cosby. You know, I'm not I'm

901
00:55:57,280 --> 00:55:59,799
Speaker 1: not a doctor. I can't diagnose the man. But when

902
00:55:59,800 --> 00:56:01,600
Speaker 1: you right before all this came out and he was

903
00:56:01,640 --> 00:56:04,680
Speaker 1: on some late night shows, he did show signs of

904
00:56:04,760 --> 00:56:09,440
Speaker 1: not being fully they're mentally and you get the sense

905
00:56:09,560 --> 00:56:14,040
Speaker 1: that he doesn't entirely comprehend what's going on with all

906
00:56:14,080 --> 00:56:17,360
Speaker 1: of the accusations. I don't know, I mean, did he

907
00:56:17,920 --> 00:56:21,359
Speaker 1: just having witnessed dementia firsthand. I remember when I saw

908
00:56:21,440 --> 00:56:24,480
Speaker 1: him on early on before all this came out. Um,

909
00:56:24,560 --> 00:56:27,200
Speaker 1: he was on one of the late shows and it

910
00:56:27,239 --> 00:56:29,920
Speaker 1: was just kind of a little bit sad because he

911
00:56:29,960 --> 00:56:32,160
Speaker 1: just did not seem like he quite understood what was

912
00:56:32,200 --> 00:56:36,000
Speaker 1: going on, and he wasn't like himself. So I'm wondering

913
00:56:36,040 --> 00:56:39,720
Speaker 1: if that's a similar situation where anyone who gets justice

914
00:56:40,920 --> 00:56:45,120
Speaker 1: it's not going to be as satisfying, perhaps because the

915
00:56:45,160 --> 00:56:48,680
Speaker 1: person who did the crimes maybe is not aware that

916
00:56:49,800 --> 00:56:54,759
Speaker 1: what they've done anymore. Those philosophical areas where is punishing

917
00:56:54,800 --> 00:56:58,200
Speaker 1: the body of the thing, the person that did these

918
00:56:58,239 --> 00:57:02,239
Speaker 1: things worth it even if it can't comprehend well, I

919
00:57:02,239 --> 00:57:06,719
Speaker 1: would also say, you know, one of the one of

920
00:57:06,760 --> 00:57:10,360
Speaker 1: the at the very least equally crucial factors here is closure,

921
00:57:10,880 --> 00:57:15,160
Speaker 1: because that's what happened, right And speaking of closure, we

922
00:57:15,239 --> 00:57:20,600
Speaker 1: do have conclusions. So yes, unapprehended serial killers are out there,

923
00:57:20,640 --> 00:57:23,840
Speaker 1: according to FBI estimates, fifty to three D in the

924
00:57:23,920 --> 00:57:27,560
Speaker 1: U S alone. Right now, that's a hell of a margin.

925
00:57:28,240 --> 00:57:31,320
Speaker 1: But that also goes into you know, the definitions of

926
00:57:31,320 --> 00:57:34,840
Speaker 1: a serial is the famous hitman Hitman, the iceman that

927
00:57:34,920 --> 00:57:38,120
Speaker 1: qualifies a serial killer because it was his profession, right,

928
00:57:38,520 --> 00:57:42,440
Speaker 1: where do we draw the line. Luckily, these sorts of killers,

929
00:57:42,600 --> 00:57:47,560
Speaker 1: despite the wild estimates, hyperbole sensationalism, are extremely rare. But

930
00:57:47,640 --> 00:57:50,280
Speaker 1: there are real life monsters and in the vast majority

931
00:57:50,280 --> 00:57:54,240
Speaker 1: of cases you will not know if you walk by

932
00:57:54,320 --> 00:57:57,440
Speaker 1: one on the street, you might have you know, it's

933
00:57:57,480 --> 00:58:04,760
Speaker 1: a very real thing that people report, will believe in hunches, right, intuitions, uh, spiders, senses,

934
00:58:05,040 --> 00:58:09,120
Speaker 1: But even that and that is not not proven to

935
00:58:09,480 --> 00:58:11,880
Speaker 1: uh to work, because then we would just have people

936
00:58:11,920 --> 00:58:15,240
Speaker 1: who are detecting these human monsters read it would be

937
00:58:15,240 --> 00:58:18,240
Speaker 1: amazing at it. Yeah, and we've got to be fair

938
00:58:18,680 --> 00:58:21,320
Speaker 1: to the jerks of the world. Just being a jerk

939
00:58:21,400 --> 00:58:24,480
Speaker 1: doesn't mean that someone is a murderer or a danger

940
00:58:24,520 --> 00:58:28,160
Speaker 1: to society. We cannot stress how important that is. However,

941
00:58:28,680 --> 00:58:31,280
Speaker 1: if you do know of or if you do know

942
00:58:31,320 --> 00:58:35,640
Speaker 1: of someone that you suspect might be actively doing something,

943
00:58:37,240 --> 00:58:41,760
Speaker 1: you can and should report those suspicions. And this, you know,

944
00:58:41,840 --> 00:58:46,280
Speaker 1: this is something that that sounds very televised, right, It

945
00:58:46,280 --> 00:58:52,040
Speaker 1: sounds like the script for some some true crime drama, right,

946
00:58:52,440 --> 00:58:55,840
Speaker 1: some law and order type thing. But what would you do?

947
00:58:56,600 --> 00:59:01,240
Speaker 1: What would you do if your neighbor who was not

948
00:59:01,320 --> 00:59:07,280
Speaker 1: an unpleasant person one day went on vacation quote unquote,

949
00:59:07,480 --> 00:59:11,200
Speaker 1: and then you saw his car and there was suspicious activity,

950
00:59:11,680 --> 00:59:16,200
Speaker 1: and then you read about people disappearing. You know, I know,

951
00:59:16,280 --> 00:59:20,520
Speaker 1: I've been afraid to say anything. All right, I told

952
00:59:20,560 --> 00:59:24,360
Speaker 1: you I'm gonna move. Okay, just be cool. But the

953
00:59:24,480 --> 00:59:28,080
Speaker 1: jokes aside, ladies and gentlemen. The truth of the matter

954
00:59:28,160 --> 00:59:31,560
Speaker 1: is that there's a very thin line between paranoia and

955
00:59:32,400 --> 00:59:36,360
Speaker 1: actual evidence in reporting it because we've all we've all

956
00:59:36,400 --> 00:59:39,320
Speaker 1: seen this before when there is an active, high profile

957
00:59:39,400 --> 00:59:42,880
Speaker 1: serial killer, like in that movie was Summer of Sam

958
00:59:42,920 --> 00:59:46,440
Speaker 1: about Sam Berkowitz um in that In that film, one

959
00:59:46,440 --> 00:59:48,880
Speaker 1: of the things that happened was that law enforcement, and

960
00:59:48,960 --> 00:59:52,480
Speaker 1: just like in Zodiac cases, was inundated with false reports.

961
00:59:52,680 --> 00:59:57,440
Speaker 1: Some people just wanted attention. So it's tough, But it

962
00:59:57,560 --> 01:00:00,640
Speaker 1: is true that with all the personal data being shared

963
01:00:00,680 --> 01:00:05,000
Speaker 1: between whomever you pay your phone bill too, wherever you

964
01:00:05,040 --> 01:00:09,320
Speaker 1: get your driver's license, wherever you pay your taxes, and everybody,

965
01:00:09,520 --> 01:00:13,280
Speaker 1: when whatever social media you know you use, it seems

966
01:00:13,320 --> 01:00:16,560
Speaker 1: more and more likely that previous on previously unidentified serial

967
01:00:16,640 --> 01:00:19,640
Speaker 1: killers could eventually become a thing of the past. These

968
01:00:19,680 --> 01:00:22,520
Speaker 1: aren't pioneer days where you could just go through the

969
01:00:22,640 --> 01:00:27,080
Speaker 1: territories killing as you please. However, we can't forget that

970
01:00:27,120 --> 01:00:30,440
Speaker 1: in some cases these killers function and positions of power,

971
01:00:30,760 --> 01:00:34,920
Speaker 1: and they're able to influence the mechanisms meant to apprehend them, like, uh,

972
01:00:35,560 --> 01:00:39,640
Speaker 1: like the police officer that Noel mentioned. Yeah, that is

973
01:00:39,680 --> 01:00:45,040
Speaker 1: a huge point here that terrifies me, especially when there

974
01:00:45,040 --> 01:00:48,720
Speaker 1: are multiple people in power that are working together. And

975
01:00:48,760 --> 01:00:51,520
Speaker 1: one thing that Yeah, one thing that startles me too

976
01:00:51,560 --> 01:00:56,400
Speaker 1: is how often a string of serial murders might not

977
01:00:56,480 --> 01:00:59,880
Speaker 1: get reported outside of local news. And is that qua

978
01:01:00,000 --> 01:01:01,760
Speaker 1: creation or is that just police with the best of

979
01:01:01,800 --> 01:01:05,560
Speaker 1: intentions trying to prevent panic? Yeah, and something just isn't

980
01:01:05,600 --> 01:01:08,560
Speaker 1: newsworthy enough to be run on a you know, from

981
01:01:08,600 --> 01:01:11,960
Speaker 1: another major source. And how do you decide that? Does

982
01:01:12,000 --> 01:01:15,400
Speaker 1: it go down to the name? Did you guys see

983
01:01:15,400 --> 01:01:20,400
Speaker 1: that they're remaking Maniac Cop? What is that? You never

984
01:01:20,400 --> 01:01:22,640
Speaker 1: seen Maniac Cop? It's like a like a franchise from

985
01:01:22,640 --> 01:01:26,640
Speaker 1: the eighties where the murderer is a cop. He's the

986
01:01:26,640 --> 01:01:29,640
Speaker 1: maniac cop like a vigilante. No, no, no, he's just

987
01:01:29,680 --> 01:01:36,320
Speaker 1: a maniac's unhinged lunatic um with some Jason Vorhees esque,

988
01:01:36,800 --> 01:01:41,880
Speaker 1: uh supernatural abilities, Nicholas Winding Reffin who did the much

989
01:01:42,000 --> 01:01:45,600
Speaker 1: malign Neon Demon, which I quite enjoyed, and uh Drive

990
01:01:45,960 --> 01:01:49,080
Speaker 1: and um, you know Valhalla Rising and Bronson and all

991
01:01:49,080 --> 01:01:51,520
Speaker 1: that he's He seems to be going down the schlocky

992
01:01:51,600 --> 01:01:55,000
Speaker 1: road a little further these days, and this is definitely

993
01:01:55,040 --> 01:01:57,280
Speaker 1: no exception. So I'm looking forward to that. You guys

994
01:01:57,320 --> 01:02:00,800
Speaker 1: want to do some shoutouts, I think it's time chat

995
01:02:00,840 --> 01:02:07,040
Speaker 1: at conners. Our first shout out goes out to Shannon,

996
01:02:07,480 --> 01:02:10,800
Speaker 1: who says, hey, guys, on the topic of UFOs, forgive

997
01:02:10,840 --> 01:02:13,280
Speaker 1: me if I'm wrong, but I don't believe you've covered

998
01:02:13,320 --> 01:02:17,040
Speaker 1: the cash Landrum incident. I only just heard about it

999
01:02:17,080 --> 01:02:20,360
Speaker 1: myself today, and I think you'd find it fascinating. Well,

1000
01:02:20,400 --> 01:02:22,480
Speaker 1: thank you so much, Shannon. I'd have never heard of this, man.

1001
01:02:22,560 --> 01:02:24,960
Speaker 1: Have you heard of this? Yeah? Yeah, this is one

1002
01:02:25,000 --> 01:02:28,080
Speaker 1: of the only uf Well, this is one of very

1003
01:02:28,120 --> 01:02:33,000
Speaker 1: few UFO cases that actually resulted in litigation in the

1004
01:02:33,200 --> 01:02:36,919
Speaker 1: nineties in the US. People insisted that they not only

1005
01:02:36,960 --> 01:02:40,600
Speaker 1: saw something multiple witnesses, but that it damaged their health.

1006
01:02:41,160 --> 01:02:46,720
Speaker 1: What where was this? So this occurred in Dayton Texas.

1007
01:02:46,880 --> 01:02:49,040
Speaker 1: I think that's a I think that's a really interesting

1008
01:02:49,880 --> 01:02:53,440
Speaker 1: topic for us to delve into because we do have

1009
01:02:53,520 --> 01:02:59,800
Speaker 1: a pretty solid, solid mass of court cases. So thank

1010
01:02:59,840 --> 01:03:02,320
Speaker 1: you so much for writing engine and that's an excellent suggestion.

1011
01:03:03,400 --> 01:03:08,400
Speaker 1: Who's next? Whale next? We have a shout out for

1012
01:03:09,480 --> 01:03:13,400
Speaker 1: Chiara says hey, Matt and Ben and Nol actually knows

1013
01:03:13,440 --> 01:03:14,880
Speaker 1: not on here, but that's okay. I don't hold it

1014
01:03:14,920 --> 01:03:18,320
Speaker 1: against you. Kara, who hails from Texas. Um, She says,

1015
01:03:18,400 --> 01:03:20,760
Speaker 1: I am writing this who bring to your attention the

1016
01:03:20,880 --> 01:03:24,280
Speaker 1: recent computer attack nicknamed ransomware. I think it was actually

1017
01:03:24,600 --> 01:03:27,560
Speaker 1: called want to Cry, And ransomware is the type of

1018
01:03:27,920 --> 01:03:30,040
Speaker 1: the type of that is where and that it holds

1019
01:03:30,080 --> 01:03:32,360
Speaker 1: your data hostage and you have to pay out in

1020
01:03:32,440 --> 01:03:35,439
Speaker 1: bitcoin in order to get it back. UM. Anyway, as

1021
01:03:35,520 --> 01:03:38,160
Speaker 1: it is sufficiently frightening and seems to have come out

1022
01:03:38,200 --> 01:03:41,280
Speaker 1: of absolutely nowhere, there's no doubt that you've already caught

1023
01:03:41,280 --> 01:03:42,640
Speaker 1: wind of it. But I think it couldn't hurt to

1024
01:03:42,640 --> 01:03:45,440
Speaker 1: provide you a request. The new ransomware virus essentially what

1025
01:03:45,480 --> 01:03:48,400
Speaker 1: I would call and evil blue screen computer malware virus

1026
01:03:48,400 --> 01:03:51,800
Speaker 1: that's been crippling average computer users, but particularly companies and

1027
01:03:51,840 --> 01:03:55,240
Speaker 1: corporations by overtaking computer systems and blocking users access to

1028
01:03:55,280 --> 01:03:58,200
Speaker 1: their files and search engines, essentially acting in the way

1029
01:03:58,240 --> 01:04:02,560
Speaker 1: a blue screen would, rendering the computer useless UM being

1030
01:04:02,560 --> 01:04:06,200
Speaker 1: impassable unless the victim of the virus pays three bitcoins

1031
01:04:06,240 --> 01:04:09,560
Speaker 1: to remove it, the equivalent of around seven thirty six

1032
01:04:09,760 --> 01:04:15,800
Speaker 1: thousand dollars American sole explanation, the everyday blue screen, and

1033
01:04:15,880 --> 01:04:18,640
Speaker 1: formally referred to as the blue screen of death, is

1034
01:04:18,680 --> 01:04:21,120
Speaker 1: a protection fall initiated by Windows in the case that

1035
01:04:21,160 --> 01:04:24,360
Speaker 1: the operating system collapses. UM. What the virus does essentially

1036
01:04:24,440 --> 01:04:26,880
Speaker 1: mimics that function with one key difference. It sees his

1037
01:04:26,920 --> 01:04:29,920
Speaker 1: access to every file and every computer function until the

1038
01:04:29,960 --> 01:04:33,280
Speaker 1: ransom is paid. Yikes. Uh. The current theory is that

1039
01:04:33,360 --> 01:04:36,000
Speaker 1: at least one of the perpetrators behind this is a

1040
01:04:36,040 --> 01:04:39,600
Speaker 1: former Windows employee. And I know that Windows actually patched this.

1041
01:04:40,240 --> 01:04:42,040
Speaker 1: They caught it pretty early and so a lot of

1042
01:04:42,040 --> 01:04:45,840
Speaker 1: people were spared it, but it definitely did wreak some havoc. Um.

1043
01:04:46,040 --> 01:04:48,320
Speaker 1: She says, she's anxious to hear what we have to

1044
01:04:48,320 --> 01:04:50,400
Speaker 1: say about it, and I would also like to give

1045
01:04:50,440 --> 01:04:55,080
Speaker 1: condolences to all the hospitals, colleges, businesses, banks, railway systems,

1046
01:04:55,080 --> 01:04:56,959
Speaker 1: and absolutely everyone who is a victim of this virus

1047
01:04:57,000 --> 01:05:00,560
Speaker 1: in any way. It can't be easy. I agreed, it's

1048
01:05:01,000 --> 01:05:04,600
Speaker 1: pretty brutal. One really interesting thing here to me is

1049
01:05:04,680 --> 01:05:07,600
Speaker 1: that if you're going to be paid in bitcoins for

1050
01:05:07,760 --> 01:05:11,720
Speaker 1: ransomware like this, even though it's a cryptocurrency and it's

1051
01:05:11,760 --> 01:05:15,960
Speaker 1: protected in a lot of ways, it is trackable. So

1052
01:05:16,080 --> 01:05:19,920
Speaker 1: at any point, like they know, investigators know exactly what

1053
01:05:19,960 --> 01:05:22,520
Speaker 1: accounts the bitcoins will be paid to, and they can

1054
01:05:22,560 --> 01:05:26,120
Speaker 1: monitor them in real time, and as soon as someone

1055
01:05:26,160 --> 01:05:29,160
Speaker 1: tries to take those bitcoins out and transfer them into

1056
01:05:29,240 --> 01:05:32,080
Speaker 1: cash in some way or some usable form of currency,

1057
01:05:32,480 --> 01:05:34,920
Speaker 1: you're going to know exactly where it went. So I

1058
01:05:34,920 --> 01:05:37,000
Speaker 1: don't I don't know the I don't understand the logic

1059
01:05:37,040 --> 01:05:39,560
Speaker 1: behind it. But maybe there's a there's like a key

1060
01:05:39,600 --> 01:05:41,520
Speaker 1: there that I'm missing. I mean, maybe there's some sort

1061
01:05:41,520 --> 01:05:45,240
Speaker 1: of like vpn SQ way of redirecting, you know, the

1062
01:05:45,600 --> 01:05:49,640
Speaker 1: digital trail, or maybe there is a yeah, there's a

1063
01:05:49,680 --> 01:05:54,400
Speaker 1: secrecy parameter. I I think, uh, I think your concept

1064
01:05:54,440 --> 01:05:57,720
Speaker 1: of this being to some degree and inside job, and

1065
01:05:57,800 --> 01:06:01,800
Speaker 1: that the perpetrator may have you something they learned internally

1066
01:06:01,880 --> 01:06:04,680
Speaker 1: to wreak this havoc. I think that's fascinating. I'd like

1067
01:06:04,760 --> 01:06:08,720
Speaker 1: to delve into it. I'm also tempted to agree that

1068
01:06:09,520 --> 01:06:11,720
Speaker 1: there would be There would have to be a way

1069
01:06:11,840 --> 01:06:16,720
Speaker 1: for the money to be laundered somehow, otherwise no one

1070
01:06:16,760 --> 01:06:20,400
Speaker 1: would ask for that currency. And a cryptocurrency has several

1071
01:06:20,400 --> 01:06:25,200
Speaker 1: advantages over more orthodox or established forms of currency, so

1072
01:06:25,320 --> 01:06:28,400
Speaker 1: that'd be a good one to dive into. And uh,

1073
01:06:28,560 --> 01:06:31,320
Speaker 1: you know, I think it speaks very highly to KR's

1074
01:06:31,400 --> 01:06:35,200
Speaker 1: character that she took the time to give her condolences

1075
01:06:35,240 --> 01:06:39,439
Speaker 1: to the organizations and individuals affected by this, So thank

1076
01:06:39,480 --> 01:06:42,240
Speaker 1: you for writing in. Our final shout out of the

1077
01:06:42,320 --> 01:06:46,240
Speaker 1: date comes from Trent, and Trent says, Hello guys, top

1078
01:06:46,280 --> 01:06:48,560
Speaker 1: Oh this was I thought this is pretty interesting one.

1079
01:06:48,920 --> 01:06:51,920
Speaker 1: He didn't say that. That's me. Hello guys. The topic

1080
01:06:51,960 --> 01:06:54,320
Speaker 1: I thought of when recently listening to your podcast on

1081
01:06:54,360 --> 01:06:57,400
Speaker 1: the placebo effect. It was stated in the podcast that

1082
01:06:57,560 --> 01:07:01,440
Speaker 1: a severe burn victim would not benefit it from a placebo.

1083
01:07:01,480 --> 01:07:04,120
Speaker 1: I would have to disagree. I've heard all my life

1084
01:07:04,120 --> 01:07:06,480
Speaker 1: of the power of someone talking the fire out of

1085
01:07:06,480 --> 01:07:09,520
Speaker 1: a burn. Manly used this as a pain relief. It

1086
01:07:09,600 --> 01:07:12,160
Speaker 1: is a secret that can only be passed from man

1087
01:07:12,240 --> 01:07:14,880
Speaker 1: to woman or woman to man. The two cannot be

1088
01:07:14,920 --> 01:07:18,560
Speaker 1: blood related. Check out info into the fox Fire books.

1089
01:07:18,760 --> 01:07:21,240
Speaker 1: I was told that my great grandfather was able to

1090
01:07:21,280 --> 01:07:23,680
Speaker 1: save a child at a hospital that have been burned

1091
01:07:23,680 --> 01:07:26,360
Speaker 1: over a large part of his body. This may not

1092
01:07:26,560 --> 01:07:29,160
Speaker 1: be a placebo in the original context, but it is

1093
01:07:29,160 --> 01:07:31,959
Speaker 1: a case of how powerful the mind can be. Good luck.

1094
01:07:32,840 --> 01:07:35,560
Speaker 1: So from you know as an armshare folklore's this is

1095
01:07:35,600 --> 01:07:39,640
Speaker 1: fascinating idea of talking the fire out of a burn.

1096
01:07:40,440 --> 01:07:42,840
Speaker 1: I read a lot, maybe too much, and I have

1097
01:07:42,960 --> 01:07:47,120
Speaker 1: not read about this. There is a fox Fire folklore

1098
01:07:48,120 --> 01:07:51,280
Speaker 1: series and perhaps it is mentioned in there, in which

1099
01:07:51,320 --> 01:07:54,280
Speaker 1: case I'm going to return to it. Um, thank you

1100
01:07:54,360 --> 01:07:56,920
Speaker 1: so much strength. These are all excellent suggestions and we

1101
01:07:57,000 --> 01:08:01,120
Speaker 1: appreciate your time. So thanks to Kara, and and and Trent.

1102
01:08:01,440 --> 01:08:08,480
Speaker 1: And this concludes ours and that's the end of this

1103
01:08:08,640 --> 01:08:12,840
Speaker 1: classic episode. If you have any thoughts or questions about

1104
01:08:13,000 --> 01:08:15,800
Speaker 1: this episode, you can get into contact with us in

1105
01:08:15,840 --> 01:08:17,960
Speaker 1: a number of different ways. One of the best is

1106
01:08:18,000 --> 01:08:20,080
Speaker 1: to give us a call. Our number is one eight

1107
01:08:20,280 --> 01:08:23,640
Speaker 1: three three st d w y t K. If you

1108
01:08:23,640 --> 01:08:25,479
Speaker 1: don't want to do that, you can send us a

1109
01:08:25,520 --> 01:08:32,120
Speaker 1: good old fashioned email. We are stuff they don't want

1110
01:08:32,120 --> 01:08:34,479
Speaker 1: you to know. Is a production of I heart Radio.

1111
01:08:34,800 --> 01:08:37,080
Speaker 1: For more podcasts from my heart Radio, visit the i

1112
01:08:37,160 --> 01:08:40,040
Speaker 1: heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to

1113
01:08:40,080 --> 01:08:40,880
Speaker 1: your favorite shows.