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Speaker 1: We've been hearing a lot about anti semitism on college

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Speaker 1: and university campuses across the country, including this testimony from

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Speaker 1: students who spoke on.

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Speaker 2: Capitol Hill about their experiences.

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Speaker 3: Listen, Penn's president did choose silence.

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Speaker 4: The neighboring university's president swiftly denounced the incident, and yet

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Speaker 4: our president cannot because the glorious October seventh, and you're

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Speaker 4: a dirty little Jew, you deserve to die, or words

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Speaker 4: said not by Kamas but by my classmates and professors.

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Speaker 5: In recent weeks, the CIA's anti Semitic rhetoric has shifted

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Speaker 5: the culture on campus to such an extreme of intolerance

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Speaker 5: that seventy percent of MIT's Jewish students polled feel forced

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Speaker 5: to hide their identities and perspectives. An Israeli student whose

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Speaker 5: identity and personal info was sold online for a bounty

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Speaker 5: has not left his dorm room in weeks out of

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Speaker 5: fear due to death threats. For my part, I was

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Speaker 5: forced to leave my study group for my doctoral exams

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Speaker 5: halfway through the semester because my group members told me

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Speaker 5: that the people at the Nova Music Festival deserved to

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Speaker 5: die because they were partying on stolen land.

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Speaker 6: Multiple times a week. On my way to class, I

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Speaker 6: walk by mobs of people chanting from the river to

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Speaker 6: the sea, which is a call for the destruction of

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Speaker 6: the state of Israel. Most recently, we have you Outnumbered

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Speaker 6: and Globalize, the Indefada and Indovada is an uprising and

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Speaker 6: the last two were marked by blowing up buses and restaurants.

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Speaker 1: We'll talk to two of those students on this episode

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Speaker 1: of this podcast. Talia Khan is an MIT graduate student.

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Speaker 1: Jonathan Freeden is a Harvard law student. We'll talk about

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Speaker 1: what their experience has been like since October seventh, the

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Speaker 1: anti Semitism that they've seen, what they hope to accomplish

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Speaker 1: by speaking out, and we'll also get their take on

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Speaker 1: the bombshell testimony of their university presidents on Capitol Hill Day.

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Speaker 2: Tuned for this can't miss.

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Speaker 1: And very important interview with Talia Khan and Jonathan Freeden. Well, Talia, Jonathan,

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Speaker 1: appreciate you guys taking the time to come on the show.

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Speaker 1: I just want to give our audience the chance to

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Speaker 1: hear what's happening on colleges and universities across the country.

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Speaker 2: So appreciate both of you.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, thank you, Thank you so much for having.

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Speaker 2: Us appreciate your boldness. You don't tell ya.

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Speaker 1: Let's start with you. Just take us through. So you're

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Speaker 1: a grad student at MIT. Take us through what it's

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Speaker 1: been like to be a Jewish student at MIT since

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Speaker 1: October seventh.

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Speaker 5: Ever since October seventh, I think everybody's lives have changed.

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Speaker 5: You know, it's not just me, even though I'm the

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Speaker 5: president of that MIT Israel Alliance, so I've been obviously

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Speaker 5: doing a lot of work on this issue. But everybody

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Speaker 5: has been so distracted and really caught up in everything

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Speaker 5: emotionally and other and it's made it really hard for

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Speaker 5: people to focus on school. I know several Israelis who

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Speaker 5: went back to Israel, either because they felt unsafe on

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Speaker 5: MIT's campus or just because they, you know, couldn't handle

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Speaker 5: all of the stress on campus. So it's been a

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Speaker 5: really stressful time for everybody.

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Speaker 1: Jonathan, same question. You know, you're a law student at Harvard.

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Speaker 1: You know, what's it been like since the October seventh

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Speaker 1: terror attacks.

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Speaker 3: It's been hard. I think that there's been a mix

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Speaker 3: of in the beginning, I mean, honestly, as a Jewish student,

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Speaker 3: you know, I have a lot of family and really

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Speaker 3: close friends that live in Israel, and so the beginning

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Speaker 3: was like a mixture of honestly mourning for the people

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Speaker 3: who were lost, concerned for my friends that are tied

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Speaker 3: up in all this and are living there. And my

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Speaker 3: mother is living in Israel. She actually moved there about

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Speaker 3: literally October first, so seven days before the attack, which

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Speaker 3: is crazy. So you know, concerned for them and mourning.

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Speaker 3: And then the same time, you know, I heard everything

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Speaker 3: happened October seventh, happened on a Jewish holiday, and so

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Speaker 3: I couldn't be in touch with my mother and grandmother,

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Speaker 3: who were in Israel for two days to check in

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Speaker 3: for their safety. And at the same time that I

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Speaker 3: was able to finally get in touch with them, I

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Speaker 3: also had notifications on my phone about what had started

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Speaker 3: at campus. We're over thirty student groups signed the letter

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Speaker 3: blaming Israel for the murder and rape of their own people.

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Speaker 3: And so it was this like crazy trying to mourn,

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Speaker 3: trying to you know, figure out what's going on on campus,

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Speaker 3: and then also just trying to go to school, you know,

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Speaker 3: like I have classes. I'm sootily showing up the classes.

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Speaker 3: I've been in finals the last two weeks, so It's

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Speaker 3: definitely been challenging and a lot of balancing.

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Speaker 2: Pall yeah, to continue that.

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Speaker 1: I mean after a terror attack where you know, the

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Speaker 1: most Jews murdered in a single day since the Holocaust,

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Speaker 1: and then there's the blaming of Israel be you know,

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Speaker 1: how do you even know respond to that? I mean,

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Speaker 1: it defies logic and common sense and just basic humanity

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Speaker 1: and morality.

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Speaker 5: That's exactly how I felt, So Jonathan side a Harvard,

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Speaker 5: a bunch of student groups released a letter blaming Israel

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Speaker 5: for what happened, and the same thing happened the day

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Speaker 5: on October eighth out of it. So we had the

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Speaker 5: same thing of a bunch of students essentially sending an

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Speaker 5: email out to everybody saying Israel made it sped, let

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Speaker 5: them lie in it, and they don't really care about

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Speaker 5: showing no remorse or sadness about for what happened to

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Speaker 5: the innocent Israelis on October seven. And even still we've

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Speaker 5: heard nothing from you know, any of the other student

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Speaker 5: groups on campus saying, you know, we support Palestine and

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Speaker 5: we disagree with a lot of Israel Israeli politics, but

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Speaker 5: what happened on October seven was terrorism, and it was

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Speaker 5: a tragedy that so many innocent people were killed. We

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Speaker 5: never hear that. We just hear about apartheid, state genocide,

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Speaker 5: white colonial whatever. So it's really disappointing to see that.

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Speaker 5: And it took me a few days to accept that

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Speaker 5: a lot of people who I thought were my close

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Speaker 5: friends and who would be able to say, you know,

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Speaker 5: what Hamas did was wrong, even though we have disagreements

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Speaker 5: with Israeli politics, and when they were unable to say that,

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Speaker 5: it really took me a few days to accept that

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Speaker 5: that was really happening. I mentioned this when I spoke

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Speaker 5: at the congressional press conference before the hearing with all

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Speaker 5: of the presidents. But I was in a study group

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Speaker 5: with two Arab students and they posted some stuff that

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Speaker 5: was a little bit concerning to me right after the

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Speaker 5: attack on October seventh, and I reached out to them

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Speaker 5: and I said, hey, can we, you know, talk about

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Speaker 5: what you post did And the conversation was really tough.

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Speaker 5: I was really trying to be open minded, but at

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Speaker 5: one point one of the people said that the people

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Speaker 5: at the Nova Music Festival massacre deserved to die because

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Speaker 5: they were partying on stolen land. And I had never

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Speaker 5: before had a feeling like I had in that moment

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Speaker 5: of oh my goodness, these people are justifying the murder

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Speaker 5: of innocent Israeli's innocent you know, not just Jews, just

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Speaker 5: innocent people, purely because of the fact that they were

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Speaker 5: on Israeli soil and you know, most likely Jewish and

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Speaker 5: you know, supporting the existence of the Jewish state. So yeah,

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Speaker 5: it took me a lot of time to accept that

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Speaker 5: anti Semitism, while I didn't notice it before, was clearly

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Speaker 5: just hidden one layer under, and now it's come out

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Speaker 5: in full force.

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Speaker 3: I think that things in the beginning went very quickly

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Speaker 3: from you know, just being about Israel and that it's

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Speaker 3: all their fault to things really actually becoming straight up

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Speaker 3: anti Semitic and in a way that is worrisome. So like,

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Speaker 3: as an example, I mean this is just this is

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Speaker 3: literally two days ago, there was a Minoa lighting on

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Speaker 3: campus and a professor was speaking and talking about his

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Speaker 3: family that survived the Holocaust, and someone came walked up

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Speaker 3: in the middle of it and started yelling at them

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Speaker 3: that the Holocaust is a hoax. In Harvard Yard. This

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Speaker 3: is two days ago, so right, So like, things went

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Speaker 3: from being against Israel to clearly anti Semitic and not

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Speaker 3: even rational. I would also add that, I mean there's

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Speaker 3: also the question of like what is against Israel, and

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Speaker 3: then discrimination within the university itself, and the whole free

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Speaker 3: speech versus action issue, which I think is something that

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Speaker 3: really should be spoken about a lot more.

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Speaker 2: Well, And Jonathan to follow up on that.

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Speaker 1: As a law student, you know when you hear some

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Speaker 1: of these university presidents, and first of all, we had

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Speaker 1: three of them that refuse to say if jenocide was

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Speaker 1: a violation of the school's policy.

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Speaker 2: When they try to hedge on, oh, it's.

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Speaker 1: Free speech, how do you differentiate between the two.

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Speaker 2: What's your response to that?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, so thank you so much for asking that, because

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Speaker 3: I think that with everything that's going on in the

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Speaker 3: news right now, that is what is the most misunderstood issue.

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Speaker 3: So what's going on with that is the universities are

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Speaker 3: looking to constitutional First Amendment law, and according to the Constitution,

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Speaker 3: if you are in a public space so that's like

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Speaker 3: completely public space, you are allowed to say hateful, disgusting

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Speaker 3: things as long as it doesn't turn into conduct and

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Speaker 3: as long as it's not technically harassment. So it's not

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Speaker 3: like targeted at an individual, So people could literally walk

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Speaker 3: around saying hate speech and that's legal in the United

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Speaker 3: States under the First Amendment. What these institutions are deciding

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Speaker 3: to do, these institutions are private, are private universities, so

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Speaker 3: they do not need to be abiding by those First

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Speaker 3: Amendment laws. They could create their own codes of conduct

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Speaker 3: that are more restrictive if they wanted to. But what

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Speaker 3: they've decided to do is that they believe that the

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Speaker 3: First Amendment laws are actually what's ideal and what should

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Speaker 3: apply to the university. Now, whether or not that's a

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Speaker 3: good idea is actually a really really important question, right, So,

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Speaker 3: meaning like, do we want there to be a complete

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Speaker 3: free speech on campus with no censorship by the institution.

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Speaker 3: People could say things even that others find hateful and

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Speaker 3: there's no way to stop that. Maybe that's a good idea,

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Speaker 3: right there's no censorship. That could be good. On the

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Speaker 3: other hand, it could also potentially be lead to hateful

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Speaker 3: comments detract from education, right Like that that's a really

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Speaker 3: good question, And the fact that the university is coming

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Speaker 3: out on the full free speech side in theory is

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Speaker 3: a fair argument to have. The issue is is that

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Speaker 3: number one, there's a double standard.

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Speaker 5: Right.

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Speaker 3: So there's many examples where there has not been full

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Speaker 3: free speech on campus. I mean the fire report which

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Speaker 3: came out and had Harvard drinked last and second last

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Speaker 3: and free speech is unfortunate, but potentially speaks for itself.

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Speaker 3: There were a bunch of Harvard students that had that admitted,

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Speaker 3: students that had their admissions retract retracted for putting like

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Speaker 3: racist memes online that speech, and the university retracted their admissions.

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Speaker 3: There's a lot of examples that show that sometimes the

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Speaker 3: university does act based on action, based on just speech.

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Speaker 3: The second issue is that what's happening on campus is

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Speaker 3: not only speech. There's also action. So like when the

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Speaker 3: presidents were testifying on Congress, they didn't talk about the

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Speaker 3: fact that one student was a Jewish student was surrounded

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Speaker 3: and they were not only chanting shame in his space,

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Speaker 3: but they were stricted his movement and you hear them

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Speaker 3: on camera saying don't touch me.

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Speaker 5: Right.

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Speaker 3: They didn't talk about the fact of posters being ripped down,

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Speaker 3: of stickers being put on property that didn't belong to them.

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Speaker 3: Those aren't free speech issues, right, Those are action issues.

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Speaker 1: And that's the thing is it's you know, listening to

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Speaker 1: some of the things you guys were talking about at

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Speaker 1: the press conference, I mean this isn't just speech. I

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Speaker 1: mean you were tell you you were talking about how

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Speaker 1: seventy percent of MIT's Jewish students who were pulled they

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Speaker 1: felt like they had to hide their identities and their

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Speaker 1: perspectives because they were in fear of retribution. You had

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Speaker 1: talked about how one student's identity was sold for a bounty.

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Speaker 2: Online and who was in hiding.

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Speaker 1: I mean that is crossing a boundary where people do

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Speaker 1: not feel safe.

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Speaker 5: Absolutely, and actually thankfully that student is back in Israel now.

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Speaker 5: He felt so unsafe on MIT's campus that he went

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Speaker 5: to his home in Israel.

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Speaker 2: To war zone.

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Speaker 5: He went back to a war zone where, yeah, exactly,

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Speaker 5: he felt safer in a war zone than he did

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Speaker 5: in an MIT dorm. And I guess I totally want

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Speaker 5: to echo exactly what Jonathan. How Jonathan just responded to

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Speaker 5: your question. I am very pro free speech, and I

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Speaker 5: agree that on on the face of it, perhaps some

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Speaker 5: of their answers could be seen as you know, a

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Speaker 5: good thing in pro free speech, et cetera. But it's

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Speaker 5: the double standard that we're seeing, where if the question

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Speaker 5: had been asked, is calling for the genocide of answert

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Speaker 5: other minority group here, you know, black and brown people,

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Speaker 5: Asian people, something like that. God forbid, the answer would

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Speaker 5: not have been the same. And we all know that.

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Speaker 5: I will give you an example on that happened to me.

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Speaker 5: So a few days after October seventh, maybe three days after,

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Speaker 5: I put up some large Israeli flagged. I have a

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Speaker 5: some in my office on campus. I have a giant

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Speaker 5: window that faces Massachusetts Avenue, and I put up some

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Speaker 5: giant Israeli flags and two banners, one that said we

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Speaker 5: stand with Israel and the other that said no excuse

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Speaker 5: for terror. And six days after I put these up.

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Speaker 5: And by the way, I am a grad student now,

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Speaker 5: but I undergot a MIT. So this is my eighth

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Speaker 5: year here, and I'm familiar with the culture. There is

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Speaker 5: a culture of putting up banners. And we have a

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Speaker 5: hacking culture, which means like you know INCLU, which includes

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Speaker 5: things like putting up banners and expressing your free speech.

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Speaker 5: So I put these flags and banners up, and six

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Speaker 5: days after MIT put out a brand new rule, the

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Speaker 5: first change to the rule on post during since two

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Speaker 5: thousand and seven, banning flags and large banners. And after that, yeah,

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Speaker 5: it's it's wild. And after that I got calls from

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Speaker 5: you know, my professor department had other professors saying, we

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Speaker 5: were told by administration to tell you to take these down.

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Speaker 5: So administration didn't even contact me themselves. I said, if

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Speaker 5: they want to have me take these down, they should

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Speaker 5: email me. They would never put this in writing, of course.

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Speaker 5: And finally, on one Friday night during Shabbat, actually I

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Speaker 5: was told that facilities people were going to come to

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Speaker 5: my office to take my flags and banners down. So

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Speaker 5: on Shabbat I went back to my office alone at night,

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Speaker 5: and three men from MIT facilities had been sent there

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Speaker 5: to essentially intimidate me into taking my flags down. And

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Speaker 5: it was very mob mafia esque, you know, you know,

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Speaker 5: we don't know what's going to happen if you don't

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Speaker 5: take them down, and I don't know if they'll be

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Speaker 5: there tomorrow, this kind of thing, and you know, it's

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Speaker 5: only happened because it was pro Israel. And actually alum

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Speaker 5: from MIT from twenty years ago reached out to me

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Speaker 5: recently and said that the same exact thing happened to

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Speaker 5: him when he put an Israeli flag up on his

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Speaker 5: MIT dorm twenty years ago, they started making up new

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Speaker 5: rules saying that he had to put his flag down,

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Speaker 5: even though there were flags on other dorms. So MIT

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Speaker 5: at least has a history of silencing pro Israel speech,

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Speaker 5: and this double standard that we're seeing is really kind

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Speaker 5: of what makes it clear that it's a disingenuous what

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Speaker 5: they're saying about free speech.

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Speaker 1: You know, that really underscores the point that Jonathan was making,

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Speaker 1: where it's like, Okay, sure, if this was you know,

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Speaker 1: universally applied, and if it was even handed, then you know,

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Speaker 1: we would buy into it. But you know, every university

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Speaker 1: across the country, in college campus, they have a code

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Speaker 1: of conduct, right and so there's already these standards that

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Speaker 1: they apply, but they're they're buying unequally applied to the

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Speaker 1: point you're both making. You know, and Jonathan, I know

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Speaker 1: you had talked about an incident where you know, there

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Speaker 1: was a mob of something like two hundred people, which

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Speaker 1: would also make student feel unsafe on campus. You know, Jonathan,

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Speaker 1: I wanted to ask you as well about you know,

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Speaker 1: your president, specifically Claudine Gay. She's also been credibly accused

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Speaker 1: of plagiarism, yet she remains in her position. What are

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Speaker 1: your thoughts on just that whole scandal and the fact

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Speaker 1: that she's not been asked to step down.

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Speaker 3: It's funny, like I think that I'm still trying to

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Speaker 3: fully formulate my thoughts on that. Regarding specifically the plagiarism,

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Speaker 3: I have no idea, as opposed to anyone else, I

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Speaker 3: think that that, you know, seemingly Harvard said that there's

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Speaker 3: some sort of independent review, whatever comes of that comes

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Speaker 3: of that, I can't speak to that more than anyone else,

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Speaker 3: and I wouldn't want to share something that I don't

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Speaker 3: know is true in terms of the fact that she

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Speaker 3: is still still employed as a president and wasn't asked

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Speaker 3: to step down. Listen, I'm not surprised. I mean, over

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Speaker 3: seven hundred Harvard faculty members signed onto a letter asking

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Speaker 3: for her to not be pushed to resign, and so

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Speaker 3: I'm not surprised that happened. In terms of whether or

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Speaker 3: not that's a good thing, I don't know, And I

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Speaker 3: know what I'm gonna say now might surprise some people.

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Speaker 3: But like, I don't think she's an evil, hateful person.

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Speaker 3: I just disagree with how things were handled. And honestly,

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Speaker 3: for myself, I want Jewish people and it's Jewish students

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Speaker 3: to be protected. And I don't really care whether that's

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Speaker 3: with President gay is the president, whether that's without her

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Speaker 3: as a president. Like, I think Harvard needs to first

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Speaker 3: of all, just start enforcing their own policies and do

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Speaker 3: an internal review to figure out the systemic issues that

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Speaker 3: are at hand. And that's just what needs to happen.

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Speaker 3: And regardless of who the president is, there needs to

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Speaker 3: be there needs to be change. We saw that, like,

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Speaker 3: I mean that they instituted some sort of anti Semitism

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Speaker 3: advisory board like a month ago, and seemingly that's a sham.

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Speaker 3: The rabbi that was on it already stepped down because

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Speaker 3: it was a sham. They weren't meeting with the I

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Speaker 3: mean I asked to meet with them for a month.

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Speaker 3: They wouldn't respond to my emails. It was unclear that

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Speaker 3: any executive power. So like, we're just at the point

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Speaker 3: where we want to see change. I think that after

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Speaker 3: the campus hearings and the response, we're going to see things,

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Speaker 3: see things start protecting Jewish students a little bit more.

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Speaker 3: But who should be the leader at the helm? I

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Speaker 3: think that that's a little bit beyond beyond beyond my

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Speaker 3: pay grade.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I respect that response, and I also think

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Speaker 1: if there's changes, it's also in part to you guys

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Speaker 1: being brave enough to stand up and to not be

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Speaker 1: afraid to call out you know what is happening. To

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Speaker 1: take a quick commercial break more with Talia Khan and

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Speaker 1: Jonathan Frieden on the other side. Talia, I'm always curious

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Speaker 1: because you know, we've had a lot of these conversations.

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Speaker 1: You know, I work for Fox News, I'm on air

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Speaker 1: quite frequently, and there's always a conversation between are these

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Speaker 1: people who are out in the streets, you know, calling

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Speaker 1: for genocide? Are they just ignorant or are they in

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Speaker 1: intentional with the words that they're using.

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Speaker 5: I don't know if I could begin to go into

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Speaker 5: the minds of these hateful people, I have no idea,

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Speaker 5: you know, where their motivations come from. But as Jonathan said,

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Speaker 5: at least on campus, what we've seen is that these

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Speaker 5: sentiments are kind of embedded, and you know, it's in

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Speaker 5: all of these liberal institutions, these universities. It's somehow become

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Speaker 5: part of I guess, the standard of what you know,

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Speaker 5: a young person at a liberal institution should believe is

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Speaker 5: to be anti Israel and anti you know, in pro

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Speaker 5: Palestine whatever that means. Apparently supporting Commas to them is

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Speaker 5: pro Palestine, even though I would say that anti Komas

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Speaker 5: is the most pro Palestine you can be. Yeah, I

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Speaker 5: think it's it's just this kind of morphing of anti Semitism.

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Speaker 5: And of course there's been anti Semitism for thousands of years,

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Speaker 5: and it morphs and it changes and it hides itself

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Speaker 5: in different ways. It used to be, you know, where's

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Speaker 5: the money the rothschild, and you know, now it's, oh,

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Speaker 5: there's colonial apartheid, white supremacy, suppression. So it's really the

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Speaker 5: same story that we've been seeing for thousands of years,

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Speaker 5: just somehow morphed to be more palatable to an educate

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Speaker 5: quote unquote educated group of people. I mean an example is,

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Speaker 5: we just got an email two days ago from the

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Speaker 5: program director of the Women in Gender Studies program at MIT,

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Speaker 5: so during our January term, they're going to be hosting

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Speaker 5: a book club with a book called They called Me

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Speaker 5: a Lioness by a Head to Mimi, and they're kind

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Speaker 5: of publicizing this as him he's a Palaestinian activist and

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Speaker 5: poor him, and he was recently detained for a social

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Speaker 5: media post calling to slaughter settlers and wrote, quote, You'll

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Speaker 5: say what Hitler did to you was a joke. We'll

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Speaker 5: drink your blood and eat your skulls. So yes, and

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Speaker 5: so they're just kind of warping narratives to let them

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Speaker 5: fit this kind of academic woke I guess viewpoint, but

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Speaker 5: I could never understand it, of course, Jonathan.

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Speaker 2: To tell you's point.

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Speaker 1: You know, why has anti Semitism almost been normalized or

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Speaker 1: mainstream to a degree among you know, these academia or

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Speaker 1: you know, some of these more mainstream people. You know,

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Speaker 1: how do you think that happened? Why is this happening?

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Speaker 1: What do you attribute it to?

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Speaker 7: Yeah, I mean there're so, so, so many possible reasons

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Speaker 7: for why it's specifically why we're really seeing anti semitism

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Speaker 7: like show its face the most on college campuses.

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Speaker 3: And like why that's kind of become a hub. I

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Speaker 3: know that there's there are conversations about around where the

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Speaker 3: money is coming from, and there's conversations around you know,

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Speaker 3: the way that at the education system has been moving

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Speaker 3: in the last couple of years away from academic integrity

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Speaker 3: and things like that. It's hard, it's hard to say definitively.

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Speaker 3: But one thing that I think is important to add,

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Speaker 3: which is just like a really interesting point, and honestly

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Speaker 3: I don't even know what to make of it, is

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Speaker 3: that when universities have become a hotbed of antisemitism, what's

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Speaker 3: happened is a lot some of the anti simitism that's

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Speaker 3: happening here is right near campus, but isn't even on campus.

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Speaker 3: It's like people are flocking to the universities and to

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Speaker 3: those areas to spread hate. So I'll just give you

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Speaker 3: like two examples. One of my really good friends here

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Speaker 3: was walking by. She's Israeli and now lives in America

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Speaker 3: and is doing incredible work psychology work with children, and

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Speaker 3: was walking by a rally and anti Israel propascinian rally,

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Speaker 3: and she asked them, you know, like she was just

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Speaker 3: like she was like emotional. She said, like, how can

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Speaker 3: you guys support this? She said, my cousin was just

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Speaker 3: in the Nova Music Festival and she was just killed

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Speaker 3: by a rocket, Like how can you be supporting this?

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Speaker 3: And the person looked at her, smiled and said, ef

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Speaker 3: your cousin that a week or two later, my wife

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Speaker 3: and that same person were in a similar area in

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Speaker 3: Harvard Square, right across the street from campus, and someone

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Speaker 3: literally walked over to them and said Hitler was right

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Speaker 3: and we should exterminate all Jewish men, women and children.

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Speaker 3: And so what's really in first of all, disgusting, absolutely disgusting.

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Speaker 3: That's on camera, by the way, Like this isn't I'm

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Speaker 3: not making things up. Look it up on Instagram. But

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Speaker 3: what's interesting about that is like that was right near campus,

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Speaker 3: but not even on campus. So it's like, for some

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Speaker 3: reason people are kind of flocking to the campus area

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Speaker 3: to spread this hate. And one thing that I just

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Speaker 3: want to share that I know is a little bit different.

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Speaker 3: I just one of my biggest concerns, honestly, of the

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Speaker 3: last couple of weeks is that anti Semitism and hatred

435
00:25:31,840 --> 00:25:36,440
Speaker 3: becomes a partisan issue. I don't know why that's happening,

436
00:25:37,920 --> 00:25:41,560
Speaker 3: but I'm noticing that people on different sides of the

437
00:25:41,600 --> 00:25:44,520
Speaker 3: aisle are treating this issue very differently, at least some

438
00:25:44,560 --> 00:25:48,760
Speaker 3: of them, not everyone one hundred percent. There are people

439
00:25:49,840 --> 00:25:52,160
Speaker 3: who are more liberal that are taking this very seriously

440
00:25:52,240 --> 00:25:55,600
Speaker 3: as well. But my concern and like the thing that

441
00:25:55,640 --> 00:25:58,679
Speaker 3: I'm really worried about, is that the hatred of my

442
00:25:58,760 --> 00:26:05,199
Speaker 3: people of partisan issue, and that would be absolutely terrible.

443
00:26:05,320 --> 00:26:07,479
Speaker 2: I think that's a really good point. Obviously, you know,

444
00:26:07,680 --> 00:26:08,280
Speaker 2: it shouldn't be.

445
00:26:08,480 --> 00:26:11,080
Speaker 1: I think we are seeing some divides in the parties

446
00:26:11,160 --> 00:26:14,240
Speaker 1: and you know, what's happening, and depending on how prolonged

447
00:26:14,280 --> 00:26:16,760
Speaker 1: the war is, you know, that division could increase.

448
00:26:16,880 --> 00:26:17,080
Speaker 3: Right.

449
00:26:17,160 --> 00:26:19,520
Speaker 1: It feels too in just hearing you know what you

450
00:26:19,520 --> 00:26:22,320
Speaker 1: guys are talking about is you know, if I put

451
00:26:22,320 --> 00:26:25,600
Speaker 1: myself in you know, your shoes, I wouldn't feel safe,

452
00:26:25,880 --> 00:26:28,840
Speaker 1: you know, And and that's just a tragedy. And that

453
00:26:28,880 --> 00:26:32,560
Speaker 1: shouldn't be what's happening at MIT or Harvard or any

454
00:26:32,560 --> 00:26:33,600
Speaker 1: of these other places.

455
00:26:33,720 --> 00:26:33,840
Speaker 5: You know.

456
00:26:33,960 --> 00:26:35,840
Speaker 1: I just want to give you guys time to just

457
00:26:35,880 --> 00:26:38,600
Speaker 1: say whatever else is on your mind before we close out.

458
00:26:38,720 --> 00:26:40,239
Speaker 1: You know, Talia, what else do you want to get

459
00:26:40,240 --> 00:26:43,120
Speaker 1: across in this conversation? You know, what do you want

460
00:26:43,119 --> 00:26:43,679
Speaker 1: people to know?

461
00:26:43,960 --> 00:26:48,800
Speaker 5: One thing that was incredibly disappointing for me after the

462
00:26:48,880 --> 00:26:53,600
Speaker 5: congressional hearing with the three university presidents was that MIT

463
00:26:53,880 --> 00:26:57,439
Speaker 5: was the only university that didn't even try to apologize

464
00:26:57,680 --> 00:27:03,280
Speaker 5: for what happened at the testimony, didn't you know, clarify

465
00:27:03,440 --> 00:27:06,720
Speaker 5: that calling for genocide is wrong, et cetera. Nothing like that.

466
00:27:07,119 --> 00:27:11,600
Speaker 5: And instead what we got was a letter from the

467
00:27:11,680 --> 00:27:14,960
Speaker 5: executive board of the MIT Corporation saying that they give

468
00:27:14,960 --> 00:27:18,200
Speaker 5: full support to President korn Booth, They support her testimony completely,

469
00:27:18,440 --> 00:27:20,840
Speaker 5: and that she's doing a quote excellent job combating anti

470
00:27:20,840 --> 00:27:24,320
Speaker 5: Semitism on campus and the fact that we are just

471
00:27:24,680 --> 00:27:30,600
Speaker 5: being gaslighted by not only senior administration but also the corporation.

472
00:27:30,880 --> 00:27:33,640
Speaker 5: And then, you know, even just a few days ago,

473
00:27:33,680 --> 00:27:38,320
Speaker 5: we got another letter from several senior faculty members, again

474
00:27:38,480 --> 00:27:41,760
Speaker 5: fully supporting President Kornbooth, saying that everything she's doing is

475
00:27:41,800 --> 00:27:50,639
Speaker 5: great and it's just so disappointing. We're so tired of

476
00:27:50,680 --> 00:27:52,680
Speaker 5: screaming at the top of our lungs that we don't

477
00:27:52,720 --> 00:27:58,000
Speaker 5: feel safe. We're tired of reporting. You know, we have

478
00:27:58,200 --> 00:28:04,800
Speaker 5: this Institute for Institute Discrimination and Harassment Resources Office and IDHR,

479
00:28:05,280 --> 00:28:08,000
Speaker 5: and last year, two hundred and forty cases were reported

480
00:28:08,000 --> 00:28:11,560
Speaker 5: to them. In the past month, four hundred cases were

481
00:28:11,600 --> 00:28:15,320
Speaker 5: reported to them, and we haven't seen any clear discipline

482
00:28:15,920 --> 00:28:19,320
Speaker 5: against you know, any of the complaints that I filed

483
00:28:19,320 --> 00:28:22,280
Speaker 5: and any of the complaints that the people the other

484
00:28:22,320 --> 00:28:25,320
Speaker 5: people in the MIT Israel Alliance, the club that I'm

485
00:28:25,359 --> 00:28:29,359
Speaker 5: a part of, have filed and it's so disappointing to

486
00:28:29,440 --> 00:28:33,800
Speaker 5: see that because they don't want to believe that this

487
00:28:33,920 --> 00:28:38,520
Speaker 5: is happening on campus. They seem to be trying to manifest,

488
00:28:38,720 --> 00:28:43,040
Speaker 5: you know, a state of being on campus that everything

489
00:28:43,120 --> 00:28:45,600
Speaker 5: is all right and none of this is actually happening,

490
00:28:45,680 --> 00:28:50,880
Speaker 5: and everybody's fully safe and content. But that's just not true.

491
00:28:51,080 --> 00:28:57,640
Speaker 5: And while I am so exhausted from screaming and I

492
00:28:57,720 --> 00:29:00,400
Speaker 5: want to just get back to studying in my classes,

493
00:29:00,440 --> 00:29:03,680
Speaker 5: we all just want to get back to our normal lives,

494
00:29:04,240 --> 00:29:08,320
Speaker 5: we can't because this has become existential for us. And

495
00:29:08,400 --> 00:29:12,760
Speaker 5: I think when we're seeing the newsweek pulling recently about

496
00:29:13,040 --> 00:29:16,680
Speaker 5: how I think it was a fourth of young people

497
00:29:17,120 --> 00:29:22,600
Speaker 5: think that facts about the Holocaust were exaggerated, and other

498
00:29:24,280 --> 00:29:28,880
Speaker 5: polling like that about the next generation kind of supporting

499
00:29:29,040 --> 00:29:35,120
Speaker 5: humus and allying themselves or empathizing with these terrorists, we

500
00:29:35,240 --> 00:29:37,520
Speaker 5: know that it's only going to get worse. So if

501
00:29:37,920 --> 00:29:41,920
Speaker 5: MIT and other universities try to just oh, shush, shush,

502
00:29:41,960 --> 00:29:44,960
Speaker 5: everything's okay, you know, don't worry about it. They say

503
00:29:44,960 --> 00:29:47,600
Speaker 5: they're trying to turn down the temperature. If they keep

504
00:29:47,600 --> 00:29:49,880
Speaker 5: trying to do that, it's just going to be so

505
00:29:50,080 --> 00:29:54,280
Speaker 5: much worse in five ten years when this next generation

506
00:29:54,360 --> 00:29:58,360
Speaker 5: of TikTok corrupted students comes onto campus. And that's what

507
00:29:58,400 --> 00:30:02,000
Speaker 5: I'm really afraid of right now. We need to be

508
00:30:02,040 --> 00:30:05,280
Speaker 5: setting a precedent on what is right and what is wrong.

509
00:30:05,400 --> 00:30:08,280
Speaker 5: And there are people who would disagree with me, but

510
00:30:08,360 --> 00:30:13,800
Speaker 5: there are you know, moral absolutes in this world. And

511
00:30:14,040 --> 00:30:16,880
Speaker 5: you know those views I have that are shaped by

512
00:30:16,880 --> 00:30:22,000
Speaker 5: my Judaism and you know my religious identity, but you know,

513
00:30:23,240 --> 00:30:25,880
Speaker 5: calling for the genocide of Jews and calling for an

514
00:30:25,880 --> 00:30:29,800
Speaker 5: into thought that these things are wrong. There's no excuses

515
00:30:29,800 --> 00:30:34,200
Speaker 5: for these things. And I think that we need to

516
00:30:34,240 --> 00:30:38,040
Speaker 5: make that clear, and administration needs to make that clear.

517
00:30:38,320 --> 00:30:43,640
Speaker 5: I think that at this point I don't believe that

518
00:30:43,680 --> 00:30:47,320
Speaker 5: administration should be commenting on political issues in general, but

519
00:30:47,440 --> 00:30:51,040
Speaker 5: unfortunately they have been. And so in like to comment

520
00:30:51,160 --> 00:30:56,160
Speaker 5: on things you know about Ukraine, Black Lives Matter, all

521
00:30:56,160 --> 00:30:57,960
Speaker 5: of these other things that we got emails about in

522
00:30:58,000 --> 00:31:01,440
Speaker 5: the past few years, and not comments on this. It's

523
00:31:01,680 --> 00:31:04,320
Speaker 5: just you know, you either have to decide as an

524
00:31:04,320 --> 00:31:06,320
Speaker 5: administration if you're going to comments or not. And They've

525
00:31:06,360 --> 00:31:09,520
Speaker 5: chosen that you're in a comment, so they need to

526
00:31:09,560 --> 00:31:13,040
Speaker 5: be strong, strong about how they're responding.

527
00:31:12,560 --> 00:31:14,120
Speaker 2: To this makes a lot of sense.

528
00:31:14,240 --> 00:31:21,120
Speaker 1: A well said quick break, stay with us, Jonathan, same thing.

529
00:31:21,200 --> 00:31:22,720
Speaker 1: I just want to give you the space and the

530
00:31:22,720 --> 00:31:25,320
Speaker 1: opportunity to say whatever else is on your mind and

531
00:31:25,360 --> 00:31:26,640
Speaker 1: what you want people to take away.

532
00:31:26,760 --> 00:31:28,600
Speaker 3: Thank you so much. And I think that this is

533
00:31:28,600 --> 00:31:32,480
Speaker 3: a beautiful part of podcasting that there's time to get

534
00:31:32,520 --> 00:31:37,959
Speaker 3: into some of the more nuanced issues. Number one is

535
00:31:39,480 --> 00:31:42,240
Speaker 3: I just know that this is just like a discomfort

536
00:31:42,280 --> 00:31:45,080
Speaker 3: that I want to share that I'm sure some of

537
00:31:45,080 --> 00:31:47,920
Speaker 3: my other Jewish friends on campus have, which is that

538
00:31:48,320 --> 00:31:50,720
Speaker 3: a lot of us are sharing that, you know, the

539
00:31:50,760 --> 00:31:53,680
Speaker 3: safety issues and saying things like we don't feel safe,

540
00:31:54,120 --> 00:31:56,200
Speaker 3: but at the same time trying to balance that with

541
00:31:56,360 --> 00:31:59,840
Speaker 3: being with the fact that like I am strong, and

542
00:32:00,160 --> 00:32:02,200
Speaker 3: we are strong, and we're going to be proud of

543
00:32:02,240 --> 00:32:06,280
Speaker 3: our identity and we're not going to step down or

544
00:32:06,440 --> 00:32:12,880
Speaker 3: silence ourselves in the face of potentially being concerned. And

545
00:32:13,560 --> 00:32:16,360
Speaker 3: I'm not going to hide my identity or who I am.

546
00:32:16,960 --> 00:32:20,520
Speaker 3: And I think that that's like that balance is like

547
00:32:20,560 --> 00:32:23,600
Speaker 3: a really interesting one and something that I've been thinking

548
00:32:23,640 --> 00:32:28,800
Speaker 3: about a lot. I also do want to highlight that

549
00:32:29,000 --> 00:32:32,280
Speaker 3: there are a lot of students on campus that are

550
00:32:33,360 --> 00:32:36,760
Speaker 3: very supportive whether or not they do agree or disagree

551
00:32:36,800 --> 00:32:41,320
Speaker 3: with us. Especially the Christian community on campus has been unbelievable.

552
00:32:41,720 --> 00:32:43,880
Speaker 3: They held a whole dinner for a bunch of Jewish students,

553
00:32:43,880 --> 00:32:47,040
Speaker 3: had kosher food of just like silence and showing support.

554
00:32:47,080 --> 00:32:48,600
Speaker 3: And I even had just to show like, this is

555
00:32:48,640 --> 00:32:52,080
Speaker 3: not a you know, this isn't like us against other religions.

556
00:32:52,120 --> 00:32:54,160
Speaker 3: A lot of my Muslim friends even reached out and

557
00:32:54,160 --> 00:32:57,560
Speaker 3: we're like, hey, how are you doing? And I think

558
00:32:57,600 --> 00:33:00,480
Speaker 3: that that's a really beautiful thing and that I would

559
00:33:00,520 --> 00:33:05,479
Speaker 3: love to see more of people trying to connect throughout

560
00:33:05,480 --> 00:33:07,440
Speaker 3: all the challenges that are going on and to not

561
00:33:07,600 --> 00:33:11,920
Speaker 3: just be completely isolating each other. And there definitely are

562
00:33:12,040 --> 00:33:14,479
Speaker 3: people on campus right now that will not speak to you.

563
00:33:14,640 --> 00:33:16,800
Speaker 3: I mean, we had people come up to us as

564
00:33:16,840 --> 00:33:18,480
Speaker 3: with a bunch of Jews at a table on like

565
00:33:18,520 --> 00:33:21,680
Speaker 3: October tenth, like literally three days later, and a bunch

566
00:33:21,680 --> 00:33:22,880
Speaker 3: of people came up to us and we're just like,

567
00:33:22,920 --> 00:33:25,600
Speaker 3: no babies were killed. You can't prove it, And we're like,

568
00:33:25,760 --> 00:33:27,960
Speaker 3: what is wrong with you? Like you can't talk to

569
00:33:28,000 --> 00:33:30,120
Speaker 3: people like that, But there are a lot of people

570
00:33:30,120 --> 00:33:32,120
Speaker 3: that have shown support and that we can talk to.

571
00:33:33,160 --> 00:33:37,000
Speaker 3: I think that building those bridges is really really important.

572
00:33:37,680 --> 00:33:42,440
Speaker 3: To just wrap it up, and for the university, I

573
00:33:42,480 --> 00:33:46,040
Speaker 3: hope that they can work with us. Listen, they haven't

574
00:33:46,080 --> 00:33:49,880
Speaker 3: for the last two plus months. I mean, there have

575
00:33:49,920 --> 00:33:53,040
Speaker 3: been emails that I've sent that are just like highlighting

576
00:33:53,080 --> 00:33:57,880
Speaker 3: systemic issues, highlighting specific policies that were violated, that were

577
00:33:57,920 --> 00:34:01,520
Speaker 3: just not enforced. I sent an email well to the

578
00:34:01,680 --> 00:34:04,400
Speaker 3: like everyone in leadership of the university about like a

579
00:34:04,400 --> 00:34:08,000
Speaker 3: little over a month ago, with eight policy violations. For

580
00:34:08,040 --> 00:34:11,680
Speaker 3: each one, I had a layout of what happened. I

581
00:34:11,719 --> 00:34:14,759
Speaker 3: then provided photo and video evidence of every single one

582
00:34:14,800 --> 00:34:17,640
Speaker 3: of them, and then screenshots this is the lawyer in me,

583
00:34:18,080 --> 00:34:21,160
Speaker 3: and then screenshots of the code of conduct that were

584
00:34:21,200 --> 00:34:27,000
Speaker 3: explicitly violated with highlights and nothing happened. And some of

585
00:34:27,000 --> 00:34:29,200
Speaker 3: them were so obvious. I mean you pointed out before,

586
00:34:29,239 --> 00:34:31,759
Speaker 3: and this is what I spoke about in Congress of

587
00:34:31,800 --> 00:34:35,000
Speaker 3: the two hundred people that marched through the law school building,

588
00:34:35,480 --> 00:34:38,959
Speaker 3: that many of whom were not even not heard law students,

589
00:34:38,960 --> 00:34:41,880
Speaker 3: weren't even Harvard affiliates. I was in a meeting with

590
00:34:41,920 --> 00:34:44,040
Speaker 3: a hyperfile speaker in the hallway. Then that got completely

591
00:34:44,040 --> 00:34:48,600
Speaker 3: shut down. A bunch of classes stopped and were completely disrupted.

592
00:34:48,680 --> 00:34:50,200
Speaker 3: It was terrifying people. By the way, I thought that

593
00:34:50,239 --> 00:34:52,279
Speaker 3: there was like an active shooter people were hiding. It

594
00:34:52,320 --> 00:34:55,880
Speaker 3: was actually like a pretty scary thing. It explicitly says

595
00:34:56,880 --> 00:35:00,640
Speaker 3: that our in our Code of Conduct that tests and

596
00:35:00,840 --> 00:35:06,880
Speaker 3: handbook on policies, that protests that stop class are against policy.

597
00:35:07,080 --> 00:35:10,759
Speaker 3: And it even makes a recommendation for what the administrative

598
00:35:10,760 --> 00:35:15,719
Speaker 3: board should do, which is to which would officially end

599
00:35:15,800 --> 00:35:19,120
Speaker 3: up on their transcript. And nothing that's happened. We haven't

600
00:35:19,120 --> 00:35:23,319
Speaker 3: even received an email about it. And so I think

601
00:35:23,360 --> 00:35:28,760
Speaker 3: like actually clarifying your policies and enforcing them, communicating about

602
00:35:28,760 --> 00:35:31,920
Speaker 3: those policies, and communicating that what's going on on campus

603
00:35:31,960 --> 00:35:36,640
Speaker 3: to people, the safety concerns, the mental health opportunities. They're

604
00:35:36,640 --> 00:35:39,440
Speaker 3: telling us that there's mental health opportunities, but if we

605
00:35:39,480 --> 00:35:41,200
Speaker 3: want to try to get an appointment, there's a three

606
00:35:41,280 --> 00:35:46,640
Speaker 3: week waiting waiting list, so that's not really effective. So

607
00:35:47,120 --> 00:35:51,480
Speaker 3: communicating effectively bringing us into the loop, clarifying your policies,

608
00:35:51,560 --> 00:35:57,480
Speaker 3: enforcing your policies, and trying to regain this culture on

609
00:35:57,560 --> 00:36:02,480
Speaker 3: campus that should be about empathy, fee and education instead

610
00:36:02,600 --> 00:36:04,800
Speaker 3: of hate and stopping classes.

611
00:36:05,160 --> 00:36:08,640
Speaker 5: I would love to echo quickly what Jonathan just said.

612
00:36:08,719 --> 00:36:11,160
Speaker 5: You know there, I was talking about this with somebody

613
00:36:11,200 --> 00:36:15,720
Speaker 5: earlier today, about the fact that these kind of extreme

614
00:36:15,760 --> 00:36:18,400
Speaker 5: people with extreme viewpoints. I've always been on our campus.

615
00:36:19,840 --> 00:36:22,480
Speaker 5: But the difference is there was kind of a level

616
00:36:22,480 --> 00:36:26,279
Speaker 5: of there was an understanding that certain things are not

617
00:36:26,600 --> 00:36:30,040
Speaker 5: tolerated on MIT's campus, that we expect a level of

618
00:36:30,080 --> 00:36:33,279
Speaker 5: decency and kindness and empathy towards other people. And that's

619
00:36:33,680 --> 00:36:36,640
Speaker 5: kind of the MIT that I came to know in

620
00:36:36,680 --> 00:36:39,759
Speaker 5: the past eight years of we all have disagreements, but

621
00:36:39,960 --> 00:36:41,799
Speaker 5: we listened to each other, We talk to each other,

622
00:36:41,840 --> 00:36:45,480
Speaker 5: we collaborate with each other. MIT is a very collaborative institution, uh,

623
00:36:45,880 --> 00:36:48,600
Speaker 5: working on our you know, our scientific problems, et cetera.

624
00:36:50,200 --> 00:36:53,440
Speaker 5: And I want to echo what Jonathan said. It's we

625
00:36:53,560 --> 00:36:56,880
Speaker 5: need all of these institutions to enforce their own policies.

626
00:36:56,920 --> 00:36:59,640
Speaker 5: We've also, you know, sent screenshots of the handbook to

627
00:36:59,719 --> 00:37:03,399
Speaker 5: MIT administration and they've done nothing. So we need them

628
00:37:03,440 --> 00:37:06,359
Speaker 5: to enforce their own policies because all we want is

629
00:37:06,400 --> 00:37:11,040
Speaker 5: to re establish kind of an environment where people feel

630
00:37:11,040 --> 00:37:16,120
Speaker 5: comfortable studying, where people don't feel fear working on group

631
00:37:16,160 --> 00:37:19,759
Speaker 5: projects with people who want to kill them or who

632
00:37:19,960 --> 00:37:23,760
Speaker 5: vocally say they're calling for the death of their family members.

633
00:37:25,120 --> 00:37:32,439
Speaker 5: And I think we, even with all of this, as

634
00:37:32,520 --> 00:37:38,040
Speaker 5: Jonathan said, I and others are still holding out hope

635
00:37:38,080 --> 00:37:44,840
Speaker 5: that the MIT administration will just finally understand and work

636
00:37:44,880 --> 00:37:46,880
Speaker 5: with us. That's what we've been trying to do the

637
00:37:46,880 --> 00:37:48,600
Speaker 5: whole time. We've been trying to reach out to them,

638
00:37:48,680 --> 00:37:52,919
Speaker 5: human to human and not lawyer to lawyer as they've

639
00:37:52,920 --> 00:37:57,160
Speaker 5: been kind of pushing back with. But yeah, I think

640
00:37:57,280 --> 00:38:00,600
Speaker 5: we are just so devastated that people have taken this

641
00:38:00,680 --> 00:38:05,000
Speaker 5: so personally. The people are so angry, and people think

642
00:38:05,040 --> 00:38:08,319
Speaker 5: that just because your pro Israel, you hate, you know,

643
00:38:08,560 --> 00:38:11,560
Speaker 5: certain groups of people that you hate, Palestinians, you hate Muslims.

644
00:38:12,120 --> 00:38:15,920
Speaker 5: I mentioned this in the congressional press conference. My father's Muslim,

645
00:38:15,920 --> 00:38:20,560
Speaker 5: My father's from Afghanistan. Half my family is Muslim practicing.

646
00:38:21,560 --> 00:38:23,719
Speaker 5: You know, I have cousins who cover their hair, wear

647
00:38:23,760 --> 00:38:28,919
Speaker 5: his jobs. My half sister, her family is Hindu, and

648
00:38:28,960 --> 00:38:33,080
Speaker 5: my half brother his family is Christian. And we disagree

649
00:38:33,080 --> 00:38:35,279
Speaker 5: about a lot of things, but we listen to each other,

650
00:38:35,320 --> 00:38:37,759
Speaker 5: We talk to each other. And that's the environment that

651
00:38:37,800 --> 00:38:40,280
Speaker 5: I grew up in at my home, in my home,

652
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Speaker 5: and that's the environment that I thought that I was

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Speaker 5: at at MIT. And it's really disappointing to see now

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Speaker 5: that that's not the case. And I would just really

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Speaker 5: encourage the MIT to promote more of that, to promote

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Speaker 5: more of understanding and empathy and compassion with people of

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Speaker 5: all different backgrounds.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I think at a base level, you know,

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Speaker 1: you would hope that society as a whole could agree

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Speaker 1: on calling for the genocide of insert any group of

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Speaker 1: people is wrong. But yet here we are. Talia Khan

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Speaker 1: and Jonathan Frieden. This has been a really enlightening conversation.

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Speaker 1: I truly appreciate your insight, and I just have so

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Speaker 1: much respect for what you guys are doing because you know,

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Speaker 1: I know that when you put yourself out there, you

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Speaker 1: know you're going to face incoming as a result. So

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00:39:26,400 --> 00:39:28,799
Speaker 1: I just really appreciate you guys being brave and so

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Speaker 1: eloquently breaking this issue down for my audience.

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Speaker 3: Thank you for having us, Yeah, thank you for having

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Speaker 3: us and for giving us a voice during a time

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Speaker 3: when speeches being stifled.

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Speaker 1: That was Jonathan Freeden, a Harvard law student, and Talia

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Speaker 1: Khan and my tea graduate student. I really appreciate them

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Speaker 1: taking the time. The whole point of this episode was

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Speaker 1: just to give them the space and time to really

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Speaker 1: talk about their experiences and share that with you and

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Speaker 1: everyone else. I think it's an important conversation and important

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Speaker 1: to just hear them in their own words. So I

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Speaker 1: really appreciate them taking the time to come on the show.

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Speaker 1: And I appreciate you guys at home for listening every

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Speaker 1: Monday and Thursday, but you can listen throughout the week.

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Speaker 1: I want to thank John cass who and my producer

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Speaker 1: for putting the show together. Until next time,