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Speaker 1: I am here in Atlanta, Georgia, with the CEO of
Speaker 1: Delta ed Baston here alongside me. After that earning support
Speaker 1: yesterday and that projection of twenty percent earnings per share
Speaker 1: growth in twenty twenty six, Now that you've had a
Speaker 1: day to say, jest, have you been surprised by the
Speaker 1: market's reaction and frankly by the lines of inquiry that
Speaker 1: you got yesterday?
Speaker 3: No?
Speaker 4: Really. First of all, thank you for coming down. It's
Speaker 4: great to have you on our campus down here in Atlanta.
Speaker 4: There were a lot of expectations. We have a lot
Speaker 4: of momentum in our business and as we're going into
Speaker 4: the year, we've seen the first part of the year
Speaker 4: that momentum picked up yet again in the early early
Speaker 4: days of January. And so as a result of that,
Speaker 4: I think our investor base was curious as to whether
Speaker 4: they see that momentum continuing to build, continue to the
Speaker 4: flatline to bop around a little bit. And we just
Speaker 4: finished a year where we saw some pretty significant challenges,
Speaker 4: whether it was the Liberation Day impact on consumer sentiment,
Speaker 4: shutdown of the government and the airspace and the latter
Speaker 4: part of the year. So we wanted to make certain
Speaker 4: we had a little bit of wiggle room, some caution
Speaker 4: as to how we thought about projecting the year out.
Speaker 4: And so I think there was more inquiries to just
Speaker 4: how much caution is there and what couldat look like? Right,
Speaker 4: And so I think that's more of what we saw.
Speaker 1: So we'll get into what great could look like. Let's
Speaker 1: get into the caution and some of the things that
Speaker 1: are less foreseeable, including a proposed ten percent.
Speaker 3: Cap on a credit card.
Speaker 1: And it raises this question about the loyalty program at Delta,
Speaker 1: considering the fact that American Express and the partnership there
Speaker 1: contributed something like fourteen percent according to my calculations of
Speaker 1: the revenue growth over the past year. I'm just wondering
Speaker 1: how big of a hit is this.
Speaker 3: Have you started to not that out at all? I
Speaker 3: think it's early.
Speaker 4: I think it's premature. This that's not our business as
Speaker 4: the financial services world and the bank and climate. I
Speaker 4: think the banks that have already come out and spoken
Speaker 4: about it are expressing a tremendous amount of concern. So
Speaker 4: I understand it would require legislation, is what I'm told,
Speaker 4: and we know the challenges of getting anything through Congress
Speaker 4: these days. I also think the knock on effects are
Speaker 4: pretty significant. When you think about what seems to be
Speaker 4: maybe a good idea to help the lower income strata,
Speaker 4: give them some income tax or text some interest rate relief,
Speaker 4: the reality is is going to eliminate their ability for credit,
Speaker 4: and it's going to freeze up tremendous amount of credit
Speaker 4: lines that the banks aren't can be able to forward
Speaker 4: to provide. So I'm not it's not my business. Of course,
Speaker 4: we're going to work closely with America Express. The second
Speaker 4: factor is is that AMEX is a premium car provider,
Speaker 4: so that's really not the income level that we focus
Speaker 4: on in our business.
Speaker 1: At the same time, there is a sense that's a
Speaker 1: growing part of the revenues. We saw an eleven percent
Speaker 1: increase in the contribution that this particular aspect made to
Speaker 1: Delta's revenue. So I just wonder how much do you
Speaker 1: expect that to grow? All things being.
Speaker 4: Equal, we're expecting high single digit growth in the current year.
Speaker 4: We've been seeing double digit growth for the last several years,
Speaker 4: and it's a really important part of our business model.
Speaker 4: But I don't think it's something that we look back
Speaker 4: and start getting causert. I think this idea has a
Speaker 4: lot of roadblocks and obstacles ahead of it.
Speaker 1: One thing that you said in an interview with the
Speaker 1: colleague talking about what could great look like is that
Speaker 1: effectively all the growth that you've seen so far has
Speaker 1: been from the premium cabin, not from the main cabin.
Speaker 3: Why do you think that is.
Speaker 1: Is it because just incredible strength at the premium end,
Speaker 1: or is it because of weakness in the main cabin.
Speaker 4: I think the main reason is the demand set for
Speaker 4: the premium seats and the premium product that we offer
Speaker 4: is a continues to be.
Speaker 3: At a record high.
Speaker 4: The more we look at the health of the consumer.
Speaker 3: We talk about the K.
Speaker 4: We're at the top end of that K in terms
Speaker 4: of who our consumer is, and when you have a
Speaker 4: high demand set, that's what drives pricing strength, and that's
Speaker 4: what drives the growth that we've seen over the last
Speaker 4: several years. That said, on the main cabinet, it's still
Speaker 4: a big part of our business. It's what pays the
Speaker 4: bills i'd like to think of. And as we see
Speaker 4: some of the rationalization that's occurring because you have a
Speaker 4: lot of lower end airlines with low end seats, too
Speaker 4: many seats chasing still enough low end consumer demand, that
Speaker 4: space is where a lot of the rationalization you see
Speaker 4: it in the industry currently. As that backdrop continues to
Speaker 4: get into a healthier environment because all those airlines have
Speaker 4: to find a way to earn their cost of capital,
Speaker 4: they're not going to be around and so as a
Speaker 4: result of that, whatever happens there, we will benefit from
Speaker 4: that and we'll keep that premium demand set growing. So well,
Speaker 4: we're not growing in that space, but it will still
Speaker 4: be a good one for us. In terms of improvement, you've.
Speaker 1: Talked about consolidation in the lower end of the industry
Speaker 1: and how you expect this to be a pretty big
Speaker 1: year of that as people try to justify their existence
Speaker 1: and survive. Would you play in that and anyway, would
Speaker 1: you make any acquisitions.
Speaker 4: We're not going to comment on that question, but when
Speaker 4: you look at who Delta is, you can answer that
Speaker 4: question for yourself.
Speaker 1: Well, I guess the other question is how much is
Speaker 1: the growth going to come from organic versus inorganic? Is
Speaker 1: there sort of a plan, especially given how much you've
Speaker 1: reduced leverage to really increase by acquisition some of your capacity.
Speaker 4: Well, when we look at growth for US, international is
Speaker 4: a big part of our growth strategy, and we announced
Speaker 4: yesterday a big new order for the Boeing Dreamliner. We're
Speaker 4: very happy about that, excited about that. Think about our industry.
Speaker 4: They come to me, they say, where's the future for
Speaker 4: travel going to come?
Speaker 3: From?
Speaker 4: One hundred years old? It is international. When you think
Speaker 4: about only one in five people in the world have
Speaker 4: ever stepped foot on an airplane. That means you have
Speaker 4: to go new places, You have to find new opportunities
Speaker 4: to grow and expand, and that's going to be the
Speaker 4: statement of the second century of flight. I believe it's
Speaker 4: about making the world a much more connected place than
Speaker 4: it is today.
Speaker 1: You know, this comes at a time the international travel
Speaker 1: growth that the rhetoric between countries has been incredibly heated
Speaker 1: and more about putting up walls. Are you concerned that
Speaker 1: that could have consequences and put barriers When you talk
Speaker 1: about the international travel and the growth that you're seeing
Speaker 1: in that sector, there.
Speaker 4: Have always been walls. There's always been in politics. Are
Speaker 4: soilings what we look at the world today? We know
Speaker 4: the one thing that really does unite the world is
Speaker 4: when you can actually travel and see and experience and
Speaker 4: get to know people, and you bring the countries physically
Speaker 4: closer together. So yes, it's not going to be a
Speaker 4: straight line up. You know, in this business, we know
Speaker 4: there's a lot of terribulence in the sky, not just
Speaker 4: in the business models sometimes, but when we actually do
Speaker 4: physically get connected back together and the world start come
Speaker 4: a closer place, that's where real opportunity.
Speaker 1: Since you're talking about the demand so far this year,
Speaker 1: and you've seen I believe, record demand so far in
Speaker 1: the first week and a half of January, I'm just wondering,
Speaker 1: is it mostly still coming from premium? Is it equal
Speaker 1: across all tiers? Is it also an economy to the
Speaker 1: same degree that you're seeing in terms of the robust
Speaker 1: interest at the top end.
Speaker 4: It continues to be. At the top end, it continues
Speaker 4: to be in business. We're seeing double digit growth in
Speaker 4: business at the start of the year. We had our
Speaker 4: largest weekly sales in our history just last week, up
Speaker 4: double digits over the same week a year ago. So
Speaker 4: if this demand set continues, we're going to have a
Speaker 4: great year.
Speaker 1: So I have to end with this because my colleagues
Speaker 1: asked me to do this. The lounges, the regular lounges,
Speaker 1: not the Delta one. They're getting really crowded. How are
Speaker 1: you going to manage that? Considering that a lot of
Speaker 1: people have complaint about Well, we've.
Speaker 4: Been experiencing that for the last handful of years, and
Speaker 4: it's a problem. What no good deed goes unpunished. You know,
Speaker 4: you build something great and everybody wants to be in there,
Speaker 4: and it's not doesn't feel as exclusive any longer. We've
Speaker 4: been working through that for the last several years. American
Speaker 4: Express is our close partner on that expresses building lounges.
Speaker 4: We're building new lounges where you've got the Delta one
Speaker 4: lounges that are coming. We're going to continue to build
Speaker 4: more supply, in more capacity to take care of all
Speaker 4: of our great customers.
Speaker 5: Stay with us.
Speaker 2: More Bloomberg surveillance coming up after this. In another world,
Speaker 2: i'd say the President's right. These bankers want hire rates
Speaker 2: to make more money. Unfortunately, when it comes to these
Speaker 2: policies that are being recommended at the moment by the
Speaker 2: White House, the warning you're hearing in the last twenty
Speaker 2: four hours, I think is agreed by a lot of
Speaker 2: people on Wall Street. These kind of policy proposals could
Speaker 2: lead to an otherwise unjustified timing of financial conditions, high rates,
Speaker 2: a shilling of credit availability. They are the kind of
Speaker 2: things that resident this White House does not want to say.
Speaker 6: Right, you put a cap on something that means you're
Speaker 6: going to have less of something, and it might be
Speaker 6: actually harder, especially individuals and lower income to actually get
Speaker 6: access to having the ability to use a credit card.
Speaker 6: Which is why you're seeing a tremendous amount of pushback
Speaker 6: from a lot of economists. You see a lot of
Speaker 6: these bank CEOs not just trying to curry favorite the
Speaker 6: President of the United States calling Treasury, but if they
Speaker 6: have to to Tyler's point. They're thinking about potential credit
Speaker 6: card that they could come out with that has a
Speaker 6: lower rate maybe for certain individuals. But this is going
Speaker 6: to be a year long story, especially since you have
Speaker 6: two bills circulating right now in Congress.
Speaker 2: And most of us now Raem and James ed welcome
Speaker 2: to the program. So I always get to hear from you.
Speaker 2: I've been telling this is just popular spark, there's no bite.
Speaker 2: I think it could be a bite like so of
Speaker 2: this year.
Speaker 5: Possible.
Speaker 7: John, I think that the bigger issue for a lot
Speaker 7: of folks that I've talked to is that Interchange bill,
Speaker 7: that credit Card Competition Act. There is not a sense
Speaker 7: that we could see in Congress as a cap on
Speaker 7: those credit card in rates.
Speaker 5: We've examined this.
Speaker 7: There's no executive authority, even using emergency authority that exists
Speaker 7: to put this through.
Speaker 5: But a lot of investors are nervous for a couple
Speaker 5: of reasons.
Speaker 7: One, when Donald Trump says something, oftentimes he goes out
Speaker 7: with the most extreme position and then negotiates into something
Speaker 7: that will be considered reasonable later. So a lot of questions,
Speaker 7: is it going to be thirty six percent? Is there
Speaker 7: something else out there? And then from an investor perspective.
Speaker 7: One thing that we've talked a lot about at Raymond
Speaker 7: James is oftentimes for financials, you need one hundred reasons
Speaker 7: to own them one reason to sell them. Investors are
Speaker 7: starting to warm up to financials again, and now all
Speaker 7: of a sudden, out of.
Speaker 5: The blue, we start get bombarded with some of.
Speaker 7: These one offs that get a lot of people asking,
Speaker 7: can you sustain a rally in this group if you're
Speaker 7: going to have that policy risk.
Speaker 6: Yeah, for the fourth quarter credit cards and the new
Speaker 6: cockroaches when it comes to this legislation potentially in Congress.
Speaker 6: So you think the competition bill has a lot more
Speaker 6: legs than the actual cap on to card interest.
Speaker 5: Rates, Yeah, Amory.
Speaker 7: So back when I worked on Capitol Hill, one of
Speaker 7: the signature bills that I worked on for a couple
Speaker 7: of years was the Card Act hanging up here on
Speaker 7: my wall, which implemented all the consumer protections around credit card.
Speaker 7: So this is something I've worked on for more than
Speaker 7: twenty years, and what I've seen is there's not a
Speaker 7: lot of support for rate caps because there are concerns
Speaker 7: about credit availability. However, on interchange it's just a completely
Speaker 7: different fight.
Speaker 5: You have two really well.
Speaker 7: Heled lobbies, the retailers versus the banks. We've had Durbin
Speaker 7: in the past, strike lightning in the bottle and changed
Speaker 7: the interchange rates on debit card transactions. Marshall, a Republican
Speaker 7: from Kansas, used the kind of push by Donald Trump
Speaker 7: on rate caps to get him onto this bill on
Speaker 7: credit card competition. And whenever there's a vote on something
Speaker 7: emory that can be the whole ballgame. There's been a
Speaker 7: concerted effort since the Durbin Amendment pass back in twenty
Speaker 7: ten on credit card or debit card interchange to never
Speaker 7: have another vote on this because when there's a vote,
Speaker 7: it's unpredictable.
Speaker 5: I still don't think it passes.
Speaker 7: But the risk is higher on the interchange bill than
Speaker 7: the cap on interest rates.
Speaker 6: So do you think the banks are overreacting a little bit.
Speaker 7: I think what the banks are doing is they're trying
Speaker 7: to figure out what they can do to put a
Speaker 7: cap on the risk. Is there something that they can do,
Speaker 7: kind of from a business perspective, to get Donald Trump
Speaker 7: to focus elsewhere. He is very focused on affordability. They
Speaker 7: are having a huge list of other things that they
Speaker 7: want to see happen in DC. The deregulatory agenda is
Speaker 7: a big tailwind for the banks. So if they don't
Speaker 7: do something on credit cards, does some of the other
Speaker 7: parts of the deregulatory agenda get sidelined? Do they not
Speaker 7: get the relief that they're expecting on tailoring or capital
Speaker 7: return on stress tests. There's so many things that the
Speaker 7: banks have going right now in DC. They don't want
Speaker 7: this to be the thing that stops all the other
Speaker 7: benefits that they're getting out of federal regulators.
Speaker 2: That what's been your reaction to the communication with the
Speaker 2: mayor of New York, your reaction to the communication with
Speaker 2: the senator from Massachusetts. What's the strategy there for the
Speaker 2: White House?
Speaker 7: You know, part of the reason that Donald Trump was
Speaker 7: able to get elected in twenty sixteen and again in
Speaker 7: twenty twenty four was tapping into populism. There was a
Speaker 7: crossover between Bernie Sanders voters and folks that have voted
Speaker 7: for Donald Trump in the general election. It is not
Speaker 7: a surprise to me that he has embraced some of
Speaker 7: these conversations in the credit card ten percent cap that's
Speaker 7: a Bernie Sanders bill. With Josh Holly, a Republican from Missouri,
Speaker 7: but he is tapping into things that he knows are
Speaker 7: popular with voters. He sees what Manami was able to
Speaker 7: do in the primary, being able to win in New York,
Speaker 7: tapping into an energy that he tapped into himself, and
Speaker 7: seeing if he can get that for the midterm elections,
Speaker 7: because he sees a midterm elections with increasing headwinds, and
Speaker 7: when he sees these headwinds, he and he alone, thinks
Speaker 7: that he can fix the problem.
Speaker 2: And how big is that group of voters that aren't
Speaker 2: married to a political party but tap into these very ideas,
Speaker 2: you know.
Speaker 5: It's at least ten percent.
Speaker 7: I think that there is a good number of folks
Speaker 7: who look at DC and don't think that they're on
Speaker 7: their side. They think that things are unaffordable. And so
Speaker 7: when we have affordability as his pitch, he thinks that
Speaker 7: that's an opportunity to bring those voters or keep those
Speaker 7: voters on his side. So we're going to have a
Speaker 7: Davo speech that focuses on housing. We're going to focus
Speaker 7: on energy, and that's going to brings in Venezuela. We're
Speaker 7: focusing on the cost of credit. The fight with Jay Powell.
Speaker 7: He's not going to say, it's a fight about kind
Speaker 7: of independence. It's about a fight about how much it
Speaker 7: costs you to run your life, and affordability is a
Speaker 7: much better place to put your kind of center that
Speaker 7: political fight versus a fight over independence, which most voters
Speaker 7: don't really focus on fed independence. It's much more the
Speaker 7: market that does. It's a hugely important thing, but it's
Speaker 7: not something that sways the average voter.
Speaker 5: John, stay with us.
Speaker 2: More Bloomberg Surveillance coming up after this. There's a few
Speaker 2: One Wall Street this morning. Alex Heltman of Barclay's writing,
Speaker 2: for the time being, investors will have to navigate the
Speaker 2: noise of coming Q four earnings and try to deploy
Speaker 2: capital into themes that should be agnostic to the whipsawing headlines. Alex,
Speaker 2: I'm excited for this. Tell me how to do that.
Speaker 2: Good morning, Good morning.
Speaker 8: So keep it really simple, as simple as possible thematically,
Speaker 8: as far as we as a team of concerned.
Speaker 3: There's one very obvious theme which.
Speaker 8: You can deploy in a lot of different ways, and
Speaker 8: that is the US China de coupling. It's that simple,
Speaker 8: and that I think is going to be running and
Speaker 8: humming in the.
Speaker 3: Background and at the center of that for US.
Speaker 8: Of course, you've got topics like defense, you've got topics
Speaker 8: like commodity security, and just like US hegemony as well
Speaker 8: and anything within that, we're particularly focused on the commodity angle.
Speaker 8: We think this is like one of the most interesting
Speaker 8: themes that I've personally seen.
Speaker 3: Let's get into that.
Speaker 2: We're saying it in metals this morning, and it's not
Speaker 2: just precious metals gold, silver, you're seeing and camper in tin.
Speaker 2: Does that speak to the kind of things you and
Speaker 2: the team are thinking about.
Speaker 3: Very much so.
Speaker 8: So, look, we've seen a precious metal rally and that
Speaker 8: is obviously to do with debasement and de dollarization, all
Speaker 8: this kind of thing. Industrial metals is kind of something
Speaker 8: which we pivot to quite hard in the fourth quarter
Speaker 8: of last year, and the reason is because of that decoupling.
Speaker 8: And just to keep you the exact summary in its
Speaker 8: simplest form, US and China used to code depend on
Speaker 8: one another, or still do codepend.
Speaker 3: On a lot of resources.
Speaker 8: If we're moving to a world of decoupling, and we're
Speaker 8: in a sort of a detante right now up until
Speaker 8: the time in these selection is the beginning of twenty
Speaker 8: twenty eight, We've effectively got two years for these countries
Speaker 8: to secure as much resource as possible, not just physical demand,
Speaker 8: but also just the line of sight on future supply.
Speaker 8: And what's really important about that is at the moment,
Speaker 8: the US is relying on over fifty percent imports on
Speaker 8: about forty seven critical metals and resources. It's not just
Speaker 8: rare earths, it's everything, copper, lead, lithium, electrification systems, aluminium, everything.
Speaker 6: If that is your base case, then can we see
Speaker 6: more noise when it comes to geopolitics? The president a
Speaker 6: week ago, a little more of a week ago, captured Maduro.
Speaker 3: He's now talking about Greenland, and.
Speaker 8: Let's not exclude Ukraine as well, massive on critical minerals
Speaker 8: and resources as well. So yes, I think a lot
Speaker 8: of the foreign policy decisions are being driven by those
Speaker 8: two factors, by defense and commodity security.
Speaker 6: Is this how to do with the AI trade in
Speaker 6: building out data centers or is this to increase the
Speaker 6: availability of these minerals and metals we need for our military.
Speaker 8: Well, I think it's both of those, and on top,
Speaker 8: if you just want to run an economy, if you
Speaker 8: just want to build infrastructure, if you want to build
Speaker 8: roads and bridges and electrification of grid and modernize your
Speaker 8: entire economy. You need access to critical minerals and metals.
Speaker 8: And of course people talk a lot about the AI
Speaker 8: narrative when it's an important incremental demand for copper, but
Speaker 8: we're talking about maybe five or six percent of global
Speaker 8: demand is coming from AI data centers. China is accounting
Speaker 8: for sixty percent of global copper demand.
Speaker 2: Let's finish on the priceless story. So some of those
Speaker 2: metals are already training all time highs. Silver copper in
Speaker 2: a bank sector, we've seen some record highs in that
Speaker 2: sector as well, and they've gone into earning season following
Speaker 2: a massive rally. We've pushback from earning season. I just
Speaker 2: wonder if you're taking any early indicators from the way
Speaker 2: the stock has behaved in response to the earnings we've
Speaker 2: seen in the last twenty four.
Speaker 3: Hours, specifically in the financial financials. Yeah, I mean, I
Speaker 3: think you've.
Speaker 8: Obviously got this noise around the credit card data, which
Speaker 8: which you guys have already covered against that. You've also
Speaker 8: got to consider this still a question mark about what's
Speaker 8: going to happen within the ECM world in twenty twenty six.
Speaker 8: There's also going to be a question around the state
Speaker 8: of the consumer in twenty twenty six as well. Most
Speaker 8: people are of the view that it's going to be
Speaker 8: a very robust backdrop still for the consumer. But let's
Speaker 8: not forget we've talked about this a lot in the past.
Speaker 3: We're still in the case shaped recovery.
Speaker 8: There's a large number of consumers that aren't in good shape,
Speaker 8: and we have to consider those as well talking about
Speaker 8: consumer finance.
Speaker 2: In some ways, does it make it easier to trade
Speaker 2: small caps, to be invested in small caps because they're
Speaker 2: not the target of some of the headlines to start.
Speaker 3: The new year.
Speaker 8: So we've been as a team very polished on small
Speaker 8: caps since around about.
Speaker 3: July of last year.
Speaker 8: We're beginning just to sort of temper that enthusiasm.
Speaker 3: Just now, and it's changed just the rally well the positioning.
Speaker 8: So positioning was a big driver of our view back
Speaker 8: in the summer when basically we had record shorts by
Speaker 8: hedge funds and asset manager that's now completely closed, actually
Speaker 8: has moved back to a net long It's not crowded
Speaker 8: by any stretch, and one of the big beneficiaries of
Speaker 8: small caps right now is a combination of the OBBB
Speaker 8: and also the fact we have to think about AI
Speaker 8: beneficiaries ie low margin companies that actually can start to
Speaker 8: get the benefits of AI productivity as well. So there
Speaker 8: is still a positive small cap story, but from the
Speaker 8: positioning dynamic perspective, we have to respect the fact it's changed.
Speaker 2: Is it fair to say that trade though, is no
Speaker 2: longer dependent on lower interest rates? There's something did click
Speaker 2: in in the last several months that was away from
Speaker 2: the Federal.
Speaker 3: Reserve story in terms of trade, the.
Speaker 2: Fact that we had small caps rally as hard as
Speaker 2: they did even though basically the right kind of cycle
Speaker 2: is now stalled.
Speaker 8: I would definitely say there's been a tariff a tariff
Speaker 8: temperament dynamic that's been at play in small caps as well.
Speaker 8: And of course we're going to get the IPO announcement
Speaker 8: from the Supreme Court any day now, and I think
Speaker 8: that decision will also plot the path for small caps
Speaker 8: in the mid term.
Speaker 2: Two, it's that market story the Supreme Court decision, because
Speaker 2: Amris asked this question continuously and have a lot of pushback,
Speaker 2: I would to say basically goes something like this, yeah,
Speaker 2: mayor basically, what's going to happen is they'll find another
Speaker 2: way and it doesn't really change any think.
Speaker 8: So that's really the question. The question is not about
Speaker 8: whether it's a market dynamic or not. The question is
Speaker 8: does the President want to use use this apos Scotus
Speaker 8: ruling as an off ramp in a year where he
Speaker 8: really wants to win the midterms. And you can see
Speaker 8: a lot of the domestic policy announcements that have come
Speaker 8: through from him over the past where you can these
Speaker 8: frenetic headlines have been about affordability in helping the middle class,
Speaker 8: and so would actually a tariff roll back and we've
Speaker 8: already seen some of that, right, whether it's furniture and
Speaker 8: kitchen cabinetry and stuff that was supposed to kick in
Speaker 8: and didn't is all part of a let's called it
Speaker 8: a one year hiatus in order to try and improve
Speaker 8: the affordability dynamic of Americans and then kick the tariff
Speaker 8: narrative back in.
Speaker 3: That's not my view, just to be very sure. I
Speaker 3: think that the.
Speaker 8: President play in the Supreme Court, right. I think the
Speaker 8: President likes tariffs. I think he likes winning. I think
Speaker 8: he likes using it as leverage in part of the
Speaker 8: foreign policy. However, there is a narrative out there that
Speaker 8: there is an off ramp that could present itself.
Speaker 2: This is the Bloomberg Surveillance Podcast, bringing you the best
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