Speaker 1: You're listening to The Buck Sexton Show podcast, make sure
Speaker 1: you subscribe to the podcast on the iHeartRadio app or
Speaker 1: wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, everybody, welcome to another
Speaker 1: episode of The Buck Sexton Show. I am joined in
Speaker 1: this episode by the one and only Mary Catherine hamm
Speaker 1: It's hammer time, everybody. In fact, she even has a
Speaker 1: podcast called Getting Hammered that you should all hammer out
Speaker 1: of you whenever you have time. Also her sub stack.
Speaker 1: What's what's the title of the sub stack, mk, hammer,
Speaker 1: It's always hammer or something. It's always hammered time. So
Speaker 1: I want to start. We have we have some commonality,
Speaker 1: we have some similarities. Um, we are both people who
Speaker 1: have worked in the past at CNN as people who
Speaker 1: are not willing to go along with the destruction of America,
Speaker 1: and therefore our time at CNN was limited, right, Like,
Speaker 1: there's a certain if you're only gonna go on there
Speaker 1: and a certain amount of times before you just start
Speaker 1: to say I'm not gonna play I'm not gonna play
Speaker 1: the game, guys, and then you get sidelined. Okay, we're
Speaker 1: gonna get into all this. Don Lemon is he out
Speaker 1: at CNN as I speak to you right now or
Speaker 1: is that just the rumor and what happened? And are
Speaker 1: you surprised that mister Don Lemon, as I believe Tucker
Speaker 1: calls him, has come out to say that women in
Speaker 1: their forties should should just like give up basically, Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean I should have packed it in a long
Speaker 1: time ago. Uh No, I thought what he said was appalling,
Speaker 1: And it shows how much he thinks he can get
Speaker 1: away with that. That just came out without his two
Speaker 1: female co hosts. It's not a surprise to him that
Speaker 1: he's sitting next to two women. By the way, Poppy
Speaker 1: Harlowe is like forty something. I know, it's it's absolutely crazy.
Speaker 1: Here's what happened in that situation. He thought he could
Speaker 1: say something horrible and personal and nasty and misogynistic about
Speaker 1: a Republican woman and that everybody would be like, that's cool,
Speaker 1: because often that's what happens, and so he thought he'd
Speaker 1: get that little thrill, and then it turned out, Oh no,
Speaker 1: I'm sitting here with two women, and they, at least
Speaker 1: one of them, thought I went a little far. By
Speaker 1: the way, had I been on set, like, I have
Speaker 1: no idea how exactly I would have reacted to that.
Speaker 1: I think it would have been forceful. I think is
Speaker 1: the word that I would go for. But I don't.
Speaker 1: I don't know what his status is because I'm not
Speaker 1: on the inside track over at CNN right neither. I'm
Speaker 1: actually unofficially bet so. My co host Clay Travis on
Speaker 1: radio you Know Well, was officially banned from CNN for
Speaker 1: talking about the First Amendment and boobs. I was unofficially
Speaker 1: banned from CNN by Jeff Zucker when he saw me
Speaker 1: and told me I wasn't welcome in the building, even
Speaker 1: though I was there to visit a friend after I
Speaker 1: was no longer in the employee of CNN because that
Speaker 1: she asked to extend a contributor contract for me there
Speaker 1: and I said no, and I had no job and
Speaker 1: no like no media job lined up, certainly no TV
Speaker 1: income of any kind. At the time, I was like,
Speaker 1: I'm out. I can't do this anymore. So, and now
Speaker 1: your time at CNN, as people watch this will be
Speaker 1: at its at its terminus, which is a lot of fun.
Speaker 1: It's the best to get people right as they're exiting
Speaker 1: the death star, the death star of liberal lunacy. I
Speaker 1: want to ask you, though, did Jeff Zucker destroy CNN
Speaker 1: or did Donald Trump break CNN? Like who's more responsible
Speaker 1: for CNN becoming the dumpster fire? That it is? So obviously? Look,
Speaker 1: I think Zucker has to take responsibility. He was in
Speaker 1: charge of CNN, like Trump's done in charge of CNN.
Speaker 1: You don't have to do his bidding. You don't have
Speaker 1: to do the twenty four seven pissing match? Am I
Speaker 1: allowed to say that? Yeah? Thing Trump? Trump wanted to
Speaker 1: break CNN, right, like that was his whole and I
Speaker 1: think that he succeeded. But you're saying Zucker should have
Speaker 1: prevented the breakage of CNN. That yeah, right, you indulged
Speaker 1: this like sort of yeah, it's like a Manhattan rich
Speaker 1: guy pissing match in between these two. You indulged it.
Speaker 1: As an alleged newsman. He could have said, no, this
Speaker 1: is not what we're doing. But he chose to lean
Speaker 1: into it, right, which is why I'm persona non grata
Speaker 1: Like I I was not leaning into it. If you
Speaker 1: lean into it, you get on air. If you don't,
Speaker 1: you don't get on air. So we got to talk
Speaker 1: about what she did lean into the tuban situation or
Speaker 1: at least leading on Twitter with yeah, yeah, let's not
Speaker 1: get confused. Everybody with with with Tuban, who I think
Speaker 1: if you're looking for an ignominious met a moment that
Speaker 1: was captured on video, right, I mean a lot of
Speaker 1: people do a lot of things. But if you're looking
Speaker 1: for somebody who's doing crazy things that their colleagues are
Speaker 1: actually able to see, that is I mean, that was
Speaker 1: amazing just for a review for everybody. Jeffrey Tubin was
Speaker 1: on I believe with The New Yorker, where he was
Speaker 1: a long time yes, a long time contributor. He decided
Speaker 1: to contribute something else and which was his naked to
Speaker 1: form during that zoom call, and his colleague saw him
Speaker 1: and he was is it. I think it is a
Speaker 1: technically in flagrante delicto. I mean, is that what it is? That?
Speaker 1: Is that? Only for the other thing? You know what
Speaker 1: I mean? I mean stuff was going on. I don't
Speaker 1: know what the Latin whether that would uh auto erotica
Speaker 1: I think is actually perhaps so. But you got in
Speaker 1: trouble because you tweeted about this. I mean they actually
Speaker 1: took action against you for pointing out some of the absurdity.
Speaker 1: Tell us what happened here with Tuban Gay. Yeah, well
Speaker 1: so Tuban was caught on tape doing this. This is
Speaker 1: not disputed. There there are situations where a me too
Speaker 1: accusation or something that goes on in the workplace is alleged,
Speaker 1: but you don't actually know if it's real, and we
Speaker 1: should be cognisitive that and like way these accusations, this
Speaker 1: one was real, cut and dried, like we know what happened.
Speaker 1: It was on video people's faces. You could say, okay,
Speaker 1: so he so he ends up back on the network.
Speaker 1: I don't know, seven or eight months later, I believe
Speaker 1: it was. Now the incident did not happen at a
Speaker 1: CNN meeting. It happened at this othern meeting. But I thought,
Speaker 1: you know, we've been talking about me too for like
Speaker 1: four or five years now, and we're just gonna we're
Speaker 1: just gonna welcome him back. Not just welcome him back.
Speaker 1: But there was a full interview about the incident as
Speaker 1: he was greeted back onto the air, right so shortly
Speaker 1: after that happened in January of I don't know what
Speaker 1: a year ago now, you ry of twenty twenty two,
Speaker 1: I guess I got into a fight with Andrew Kazinski
Speaker 1: my colleague on Twitter about some coverage at CNN did
Speaker 1: of the congressional baseball shooting. Because there I was like, no,
Speaker 1: it wasn't covered like it would have been covered if
Speaker 1: its Democrats. That's crazy to say, of course, Like let's
Speaker 1: just let's just be honest about it. It faded in
Speaker 1: like within forty eight hours from what we were talking about. Wait,
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, just just kind of just just for review.
Speaker 1: The Bernie Sanders supporters screaming about how this is for healthcare,
Speaker 1: who tried to assassinate with a rifle and actually shot
Speaker 1: Steve Scalise, but tried to assassinate about a dozen specifically
Speaker 1: conservative members of Congress. That guy, that's who we're talking about,
Speaker 1: which I think when you let people go Wait, that
Speaker 1: really was what. Yeah, he was screaming this is for
Speaker 1: healthcare while he's shooting it at members of Congress who
Speaker 1: he made sure were Republicans beforehand. That's what he doubled checked.
Speaker 1: He doubled checked that they were Republicans before he went
Speaker 1: out to try to assassinate them en mass. Anyway, within
Speaker 1: twenty four to thirty six hours, CNN had kind of
Speaker 1: moved on from this story, and people were disputing this
Speaker 1: online last year over some argument, and I was like,
Speaker 1: no, no no, no, Look I was there twenty four hours later,
Speaker 1: less than forty eight hours later, the news fans were gone.
Speaker 1: I was on TV at the congressional baseball game where
Speaker 1: we're standing in front of the victims of this shooting
Speaker 1: and we were talking about wait for it, Mike Pence
Speaker 1: got a lawyer. That was the story we were talking about.
Speaker 1: So I put this on Twitter and Andrew Kazinski argues
Speaker 1: with me about it, at which point I was like,
Speaker 1: why you're going pretty hard on me about this. I
Speaker 1: feel like you never said anything about like Tuban and Cuomo.
Speaker 1: And then it gets into like, well, this is why
Speaker 1: you should have said something about Tuban and I said
Speaker 1: it explicitly and I got suspended without my knowledge for
Speaker 1: the next six to seven months. So who makes that
Speaker 1: decision within CNM, Like who does the who puts you
Speaker 1: in CNN jail? This was Zucker. It was Zucker right
Speaker 1: right from l Yeah Road Road to the defense of
Speaker 1: of Tuban. I really do think that there was a
Speaker 1: there was a perception over there at CNN. It's kind
Speaker 1: of amazing because now I think I think that CNN
Speaker 1: it became such a to anybody who was being objective,
Speaker 1: including Democrats and leftists and liberals and other people that
Speaker 1: I know who are honest about this kind of stuff,
Speaker 1: that it just became it just became a joke because
Speaker 1: it kept holding itself out as some kind of gold
Speaker 1: standard of journalism, even during the Trump years. I mean, MSNBC, Yeah,
Speaker 1: they're like lunatic Marxists, I get it, But but everyone
Speaker 1: knows that. I mean, there's not there's not this game
Speaker 1: of we're doing the you know, gold standard, straight down
Speaker 1: the middle journalism stuff, and CNN kind of pretends that
Speaker 1: that's still what it is. And it's such an obvious
Speaker 1: and laughable fraud that I wonder if it ever can recover,
Speaker 1: where does it go from here? Look, I'm not sure.
Speaker 1: I mean, I do think that the brand took a
Speaker 1: drubbing during those years that I'm not sure how you
Speaker 1: come back from. Because you can you can sort of
Speaker 1: put on the face as if you're doing the work
Speaker 1: you're doing during the journalistic work. Look at us, we're
Speaker 1: seeing in but people have changed their habits and you're
Speaker 1: you're fighting this tide of people having decided like this
Speaker 1: doesn't feel like CNN used to feel when I turned
Speaker 1: to it for actual, you know, breaking news coverage, which
Speaker 1: is a thing that CNN can do well. It has
Speaker 1: bureaus all over the world and can do that kind
Speaker 1: of stuff well. But it invested in other things during
Speaker 1: the Zuccer years, and those things were not serving people.
Speaker 1: And so now you've got cord cutters and everybody turning
Speaker 1: to online and alternative sources, and why would they turn back.
Speaker 1: I don't understand how you make the sale because there's
Speaker 1: already people who do hard left commentary perfectly, well, right,
Speaker 1: you don't. I'm not sure you need a substitute for that. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I just don't think it really has a place to go.
Speaker 1: I think that Chris Lickt is the new guy, right,
Speaker 1: I don't know what he can what he can really
Speaker 1: do with that place other than try to make it.
Speaker 1: The real answer, I think would be to make CNN. Here,
Speaker 1: here's my theory, and I'll give this to them for free.
Speaker 1: Make CNN a place where they really are doing both voices,
Speaker 1: and I mean really do both voices, meaning that you're
Speaker 1: going to have you know, it can't just be all
Speaker 1: the hosts or Democrats and they have three out of
Speaker 1: four people on or Democrat pundits that you know, it
Speaker 1: would have to be No, you're gonna have real people,
Speaker 1: because if you had a place I think in the
Speaker 1: media now where people could have real debates, not the
Speaker 1: bullcrap CNN, Oh, you don't really get to say anything.
Speaker 1: We're gonna go to this person the panel, and then
Speaker 1: we're gonna go to commercial and you're just there to
Speaker 1: get punched in the face as the conservative. I think
Speaker 1: that would be interesting. I mean, I kind of miss
Speaker 1: I love the Hannity and Combs days. Man, Like I
Speaker 1: remember back in the day, even on Fox, you saw
Speaker 1: a lot more debate than you do these days. But
Speaker 1: that was the medium, right, And when when I got
Speaker 1: into this business, I felt like that's what we were
Speaker 1: signing up for. People like you and me were going
Speaker 1: to be there and there'll be some spirited exchanges and
Speaker 1: maybe even sometimes people get a little nasty and go
Speaker 1: crazy and that would go viral. And that's the way
Speaker 1: it is. That doesn't even happen anymore. I mean, it's unairlane,
Speaker 1: no offense. But if somebody goes in CNN at CNN
Speaker 1: and says the Republican, I'm like, oh, here we go,
Speaker 1: here's the like, there's a Republican. My party has lost
Speaker 1: its way and all of our principles are so wrong.
Speaker 1: I can't believe I was pro choice all those years.
Speaker 1: I'm like, that's that's great CNN. That's really showing both sides.
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, I um, that was not me. And you
Speaker 1: can sort of track the trajectory of my time there
Speaker 1: accordingly is that because I want I like to mix
Speaker 1: it up. I like to be a voice for people
Speaker 1: who are not in the room. Usually that's a Republican
Speaker 1: if you're on any station, any cable news network other
Speaker 1: than thoughts, right, I want to be a voice for
Speaker 1: people who are not getting their side heard. And to
Speaker 1: do that makes you a skunk at the garden party.
Speaker 1: It really does. As you have experienced, oh totally. So
Speaker 1: it was funny because I had the experience of being
Speaker 1: at CNN. Initially, I really because there was a lot
Speaker 1: this is the Obama I was there for some of
Speaker 1: the Obama administration, right, and initially it was, oh, hey, wait,
Speaker 1: you actually did a lot of counter terrorism work or
Speaker 1: you know whatever intelligence work I guess would be a
Speaker 1: better way to put it. You know, A rock Afghanistan
Speaker 1: in these places for the CIA, and I briefed the
Speaker 1: president a bunch of times the Ovel Office and things
Speaker 1: like that. It's like, so you can actually do terrorism
Speaker 1: analysis and I and the answer was yes, I could,
Speaker 1: and I was really good at that. Not to be immodest,
Speaker 1: but I knew that stuff backwards and forwards at the
Speaker 1: time in a way that a lot of their guys
Speaker 1: who had retired from the Air Force twenty years ago
Speaker 1: just honestly didn't. But any way, um, and they were
Speaker 1: very cool with me going on to talk about that stuff.
Speaker 1: In fact, I remember I got an Ada boy once
Speaker 1: from Zucker himself after there was a Russian assassination of
Speaker 1: a dissident right near Red Square and I was dealing
Speaker 1: with it in real time because it had just happened.
Speaker 1: And then the Trump phenomenon came. And I'm telling you
Speaker 1: because then they're like, well, there's not really we're not
Speaker 1: really talking terrorism. It's all Trump, all politics. And they're like, wait,
Speaker 1: you're a Republican. What do you think of Trump? And
Speaker 1: I'm like, yeah, I'm I'm gonna vote for Trump, but
Speaker 1: like a Trump a Trump supporter. And I'm telling you,
Speaker 1: it was just from then on, either and then on
Speaker 1: I was they looked. They looked at me from from
Speaker 1: the production assistance all the way up to Zucker with disdain,
Speaker 1: with disdain, which is such a shame because what kind
Speaker 1: of news network are you if you have basically fifty
Speaker 1: percent of the voting public is unrepresented. Right Like, I didn't,
Speaker 1: I didn't vote for Trump. I was like a Trump
Speaker 1: critical but reasonable conservative who ever went full like democrat.
Speaker 1: I guess I didn't do that, and all during the
Speaker 1: Russia stuff. So that's how I sort of that's how
Speaker 1: I started on the network right like it was during
Speaker 1: the primaries, and I felt like we did have some
Speaker 1: really good actual conversations between Trump supporters and myself. It
Speaker 1: was more critical, and then it came to the Russia stuff.
Speaker 1: And this is me for four years. I don't think
Speaker 1: this is what you guys are saying. It is man like,
Speaker 1: this doesn't I don't think this is going to pan out.
Speaker 1: I'll call me crazy, but it doesn't feel like we
Speaker 1: have the evidence for what you guys are alleging. Buller
Speaker 1: report comes out. Um, So I was right and like
Speaker 1: that that was what sort of made my downhill trajectory.
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Speaker 1: get your My Pillow two point zero now. YEA well, also,
Speaker 1: there was no there was no accountability for it. And
Speaker 1: in fact, I've often said about that that it's wrong.
Speaker 1: It was wrong when I say there's no accountability because
Speaker 1: people actually got promoted or careers were I mean someone
Speaker 1: like Jim Acosta at CNN. By becoming this just little
Speaker 1: anti Trump, uh, you know, smurf running around freaking out
Speaker 1: about Trump all the time, Jim Acosta elevated his career
Speaker 1: and I'm sure it made more money, bigger contract and
Speaker 1: everything else. You know, there were others as well who
Speaker 1: were constantly doing the same thing, constantly building themselves up
Speaker 1: and saying things that were untrue, but they benefited from it.
Speaker 1: And I think CNN was an example of that for individuals.
Speaker 1: But as as a network, the place is done. You
Speaker 1: know you and because of our history we both have
Speaker 1: been there. It's kind of like a This is a
Speaker 1: little bit of a little bit of a therapy session.
Speaker 1: So there's some other things I want to ask you about,
Speaker 1: but just you know, before we switched, we switched gears.
Speaker 1: Well one thing to put a put a button on
Speaker 1: this just so everyone knows, because I was curious. Tuban
Speaker 1: was benched for eight months for what he did, and
Speaker 1: I was on the bench for seven months for tweeting
Speaker 1: about it. That sounds about right, That sounds about right now.
Speaker 1: It's a deeply unfair and honestly a grotesquely dishonest organization.
Speaker 1: Um that not a single one of their anchors would
Speaker 1: have the balls to have an unfiltered discussion with someone
Speaker 1: like me about how utterly full of full of crap
Speaker 1: they are. That's that's like, that's basically where we are
Speaker 1: at this point. Like they would know to stay away
Speaker 1: from someone like me. Um, you're a very You're a
Speaker 1: very polite, nice person. I tend to get more angry
Speaker 1: about what I've seen in CNN do, but it depends
Speaker 1: on the subject. But I was gonna say, yeah, maybe
Speaker 1: maybe I'm you know, because they what they've done and
Speaker 1: the way that they've gone after people and the show
Speaker 1: also stuff that the showing up on you know, some
Speaker 1: woman's front lawn who was you know, part of a
Speaker 1: Facebook group and some Russian bod or something. I mean,
Speaker 1: just you know, going after the guy who did the
Speaker 1: Nancy Pelosi is drunk meme. I mean, they became a
Speaker 1: nasty and vindict of organization of dishonest people with very
Speaker 1: few exceptions that I I just speaking about people's work.
Speaker 1: I mean, there're people that I know they're personally that
Speaker 1: I would say, Okay, they're a nice enough person. But
Speaker 1: in terms of the work that it right. But in
Speaker 1: terms of the work that was on air, no, no,
Speaker 1: it really. Yeah, the mission of the network felt like
Speaker 1: what you're talking about is what the mission felt like
Speaker 1: as as opposed to individual personalities, which could be fine. Fine,
Speaker 1: I'll put it out there. Anyone at CNN who wants
Speaker 1: to disagree with me on this one, I would love
Speaker 1: to live my radio show on CNN's air. No, no pretaping,
Speaker 1: not like the time that Brad Stelter had me on
Speaker 1: to debate why is it Buck that you called this
Speaker 1: act of terrorism Jihada's terrorism before anybody else. By the way,
Speaker 1: of course, it turned out that I was right. We
Speaker 1: taped an interview on this, They never aired it, never
Speaker 1: even told me they're working to air it, to scrap
Speaker 1: the whole because you look like such an idiot, because
Speaker 1: he is an idiot. I'm like, why are you doing well? Yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm like Stelter, first of all, why are you debating
Speaker 1: anything with me? Second of all, you're a debate this
Speaker 1: with me? Really, do you want to tell like, you know,
Speaker 1: you want to tell an NBA player how to do
Speaker 1: is free throws? Like, what are you doing? Dude? It
Speaker 1: was just crazy, It was anywhere. Just there has to
Speaker 1: be accountability for when they're wrong or when they're deceiving people,
Speaker 1: and they're just isn't isn't I know, And so you're
Speaker 1: not serving the product that people need craziness. So something
Speaker 1: else that that I know you're you're a little fired
Speaker 1: up about. I mentioned my my good friend, our friend
Speaker 1: Clay before marching bands. Clay is a good sports guy
Speaker 1: and he has some thoughts about marching bands. I will
Speaker 1: tell you before we get to the marching band's topic.
Speaker 1: It is a big secret among certainly my audience listeners.
Speaker 1: I am a classically trained musician. I do not share
Speaker 1: publicly what the instrument is just because it's funny. It's
Speaker 1: funny to hear because it's obviously not like the guitar,
Speaker 1: the piano or something cool or even like the violet.
Speaker 1: Like it's definitely something that and everyone's like the oboe,
Speaker 1: the clarinet, the flu the piccolo. I always appreciate that,
Speaker 1: and I'm like, oh, somebody studied a little you know,
Speaker 1: classical music or likes it, um, but tell me this.
Speaker 1: To tell me this dispute. Clay thinks that there should
Speaker 1: be no marching bands to move through college football faster. You,
Speaker 1: as a marching band person, I think this is Yes,
Speaker 1: this is an outrage. It's an outrage. Okay. First of all,
Speaker 1: my guests would be bassoon. Second of all, good, good guess.
Speaker 1: Second of all, yes. So Clay is arguing that because
Speaker 1: the college football gods are trying to change the game
Speaker 1: to be quicker, which, like, I'm not even sure that
Speaker 1: we need that, like unless it gets me more tailgating time,
Speaker 1: why why are we doing this anyway? So that needs
Speaker 1: to be quicker, So they're trying to make some changes.
Speaker 1: His argument is that you just chop out the ten
Speaker 1: to twelve minutes of marching band from halftime and we're done.
Speaker 1: I disagree because they deserve they deserve their moment. These
Speaker 1: these nerds, and I'm one of them, so I'm allowed
Speaker 1: to say it. They deserve their moment. They work very
Speaker 1: hard and please imagine college football the soundtrack of the
Speaker 1: marching band in the stands. Now, he will argue they
Speaker 1: should just be in the stands. Cave them in the stands.
Speaker 1: But no, they have served us well and they deserve Okay, fine,
Speaker 1: maybe you could cut it in a half. Do you
Speaker 1: like a seven minute show? But we're not getting rid
Speaker 1: of marching bands. It's part of the Americana. The experience
Speaker 1: is not the same without them. Find another place. I
Speaker 1: do have to ask you now, as a as a
Speaker 1: wife mother, are you mother of three? How many kids
Speaker 1: do you have? Now? Four children? Four? As a mother
Speaker 1: of four and a woman who is who is herself
Speaker 1: likes the sports athletics, plays and watches, what is your
Speaker 1: take on cheerleaders at college football games? Do we are
Speaker 1: we fully supportive of this? Or is this out of use? Bro?
Speaker 1: They're they're extremely good athletes. First of all, like the
Speaker 1: tumbling is a saying. And I have several family members
Speaker 1: who have been cheerleaders, so I can't I can't hate it.
Speaker 1: Was not my sport of choice. Uh, because I did
Speaker 1: play the fact that I was also in marching band,
Speaker 1: I was covering a lot of bases, Okay, fuck I was,
Speaker 1: I was. I was a well rounded high school student, okay,
Speaker 1: and uh, and so I was playing the clarinet, but
Speaker 1: I was also playing soccer. But no, I'm I'm pro
Speaker 1: I'm pro pro cheerleader. Okay. See it's funny because when
Speaker 1: you say it, it sounds somehow empowering to women. But
Speaker 1: when I or Clay says we're pro cheerlead, urban's like, oh, yeah,
Speaker 1: of course you are. But anyway, you know, I experienced
Speaker 1: my first by the way, I have to I have
Speaker 1: to look this up, but I believe I tweeted in
Speaker 1: support of the First Amendment in boobs and I somehow
Speaker 1: didn't get benched for that one. Wow. Yeah, that's a
Speaker 1: that's a thing that that's the thing that can happen.
Speaker 1: Apparently I remember that one either went maybe it went
Speaker 1: into the radar or Zucker actually secretly agree with me.
Speaker 1: I don't know. Ye rule Doll. Let's talk about role
Speaker 1: golf for a minute here, because you you draw this
Speaker 1: one of my attention I always think of. Well, actually,
Speaker 1: the one that I think I probably think of first
Speaker 1: is James and the Giant Peach, which is that that's
Speaker 1: Roul Doll, right. I don't want to be this is like,
Speaker 1: this reminds me of because I took as an extra class,
Speaker 1: not part of the core curriculum or a main curriculum.
Speaker 1: But I took um like music theory and classical music
Speaker 1: when I was in college, as one does when they're
Speaker 1: applying a nerd instrument, that they'll never tell their audience
Speaker 1: because they'll never they'll never live it down. But I
Speaker 1: do remember that the intro class for music was very
Speaker 1: and that there were there were members I'm I'm not trying,
Speaker 1: I'm not trying to cast aspersions here, but there were
Speaker 1: members of the football team who also because this was
Speaker 1: a a gut class. Oh and that was right, So
Speaker 1: it was like not a hard class, so they're there
Speaker 1: were the nerds who were into the actual and you
Speaker 1: could just sort of sit in the back and like
Speaker 1: not really do anything, and it was almost like a
Speaker 1: music appreciation class. And there were a few of them
Speaker 1: who handed in an analysis of Pocabell's Cannon by Bach,
Speaker 1: which I thought was really, yes, the whole you know,
Speaker 1: the whole thing. So I'm trying Roll Doll, I believe
Speaker 1: road Giant James and the Giant Peach, right, So you're correct,
Speaker 1: that is a good Yeah, you're not misnaming that one.
Speaker 1: So what is your favorite Your favorite Roll Doll book
Speaker 1: probably The Witches, which I found to be like the
Speaker 1: most frightening thing i'd ever written read When I was
Speaker 1: like nine years old, I was hiding in my room.
Speaker 1: I'm like, oh my god, this is that which I
Speaker 1: remember renting from Blockbuster because we are contemporaries, and that
Speaker 1: is the thing I remember, those witches. This scared the
Speaker 1: crap out of me. I mean that it didn't scare
Speaker 1: me quite as much as like The Exorcist, which came
Speaker 1: along later, but that but it was pretty scary, right,
Speaker 1: So yes, it was horrifying. What's more horrifying is if
Speaker 1: you read it to your children and they're not horrified
Speaker 1: at all, which is what happened to me. I was like, girls,
Speaker 1: how can you not be concerned about this? But they
Speaker 1: were like, I mean it seems kind of light to us.
Speaker 1: I was like, what kind of warriors have I created?
Speaker 1: But the point being that they're not snowflakes? But the
Speaker 1: way is and to own the rights to Roll Doll books,
Speaker 1: which if you've read any Roll Doll books you know
Speaker 1: are full of adults and villains who are disgusting and
Speaker 1: fat and ugly, and he makes it very clear that
Speaker 1: these are their characteristics. And now, because that's considered problematic,
Speaker 1: the estate that owns the rights to his books, is
Speaker 1: now changing the books and editing them to take out
Speaker 1: words like fat and to take out descriptions that might
Speaker 1: be problematic. And it is very it's very super creepy
Speaker 1: and in fantaalizing. It's also just terrible writing because they
Speaker 1: take these lovely phrases like British hilarious, mean insults and
Speaker 1: turn them into just mush to nothing. And of course
Speaker 1: this is not considered censorship or book banning by the left,
Speaker 1: but changing curriculum or having age limits for very adult
Speaker 1: material in school libraries. That is censorship of the highest degree.
Speaker 1: But actually changing this man's writing after he dies and
Speaker 1: then only publishing that and censoring it for everyone. Not
Speaker 1: a problem, Not a problem, guys. I gotta tell you know,
Speaker 1: I wasn't. I've never read the Harry Potter books. First
Speaker 1: of all, what they're doing, what they're doing a role
Speaker 1: doll is completely insane. I think they've they've been going
Speaker 1: after a lot of I didn't, isn't. Doctor Shou's also
Speaker 1: problematic for some. There's there's something with Doctor SEUs books too.
Speaker 1: I can't write there aren't there They're racist or something, right,
Speaker 1: There's like tropes in them that they there's there's problematic
Speaker 1: portrayals in them, and so there are so longer published
Speaker 1: and uh like you know these are these are the
Speaker 1: kinds of things where, by the way, when books are
Speaker 1: actually banned, what you have to do is you go
Speaker 1: have to find them, like on a black market or
Speaker 1: on eBay or something right, and that that's what you
Speaker 1: have to do. Now with the old versions of Rold
Speaker 1: Dull and Doctor SEUs, the uncensored versions, it's so funny too,
Speaker 1: because you know you'll see these. You'll see these leftists
Speaker 1: who will tweet out a photo that this is my
Speaker 1: bookshelf of band stuff and it's like hypersexualized content that
Speaker 1: they were giving to first graders, and they don't understand
Speaker 1: that that's that's not being banned. That's just like, don't
Speaker 1: be a sick weirdo. But as a conservative or as
Speaker 1: somebody who's just a rationalist, a reasonable person, you could
Speaker 1: create a whole bookshelf. Now, when you think about it,
Speaker 1: who's canceled Doctor SEUs, Road, Rudyard Kipling. You know, go,
Speaker 1: you go down the list, and depending on what you're
Speaker 1: looking for, you can find Shakespeare, come on that guy,
Speaker 1: lots of stuff you do real no super problematic. Yeah,
Speaker 1: he was not woke at all. It's gonna be an issue.
Speaker 1: Do you think woke people are all miserable? It's something
Speaker 1: I always think about. I really think that they're even
Speaker 1: if they no matter how good looking, wealthy, successful, whatever,
Speaker 1: if they truly believe this stuff, if they're truly woke,
Speaker 1: there they lead a life of misery. This is my belief.
Speaker 1: So it depends on how much joy they're getting out
Speaker 1: of the pack comes from the victimhood they're claiming, right,
Speaker 1: because that's the whole game. So if you enjoy that
Speaker 1: sort of power, and I think a lot of people,
Speaker 1: particularly during COVID with the signaling and being able to
Speaker 1: boss everybody around, if became apparent to me that a
Speaker 1: lot of people really enjoy that in a way that
Speaker 1: I do not. I don't have any interest in telling
Speaker 1: you what to do, but a lot of people do,
Speaker 1: and so there is some enjoyment there. But it seems
Speaker 1: like such a a terrible existence to me to spend
Speaker 1: all of your time thinking about this hierarchy of victimhood
Speaker 1: and where you claim your power by claiming that victimhood
Speaker 1: and just reacting to everything in the most hysterical way. Possible,
Speaker 1: not a life I want to live. I have four,
Speaker 1: you know, irrational human beings I'm trying to raise, like
Speaker 1: I got. I'm really they've cornered the market on my
Speaker 1: ability to deal with that stuff you mentioned. There are
Speaker 1: a few things that I think get me more fired
Speaker 1: up than the COVID restriction stuff. Just because I was
Speaker 1: in New York City for all of the pandemic, I mean,
Speaker 1: you know, would leave occasionally. I would escape to Florida,
Speaker 1: where I now live, Yes, because I just couldn't couldn't
Speaker 1: deal with it anymore. And I was also very early,
Speaker 1: and this is all a matter of record, thanks to
Speaker 1: things like Twitter. I was very early, meaning April, I
Speaker 1: wanted to reopen for full reopen and forget everything. By
Speaker 1: Easter of twenty twenty. I was like, this is crazy.
Speaker 1: I don't know what anyone thinks we're doing here. This
Speaker 1: is and it was, oh, you're a grandma murderer. And
Speaker 1: so just extrapolate from that, masks don't work, which I
Speaker 1: was saying earlier. I've gotten. I've gotten, you know, YouTube
Speaker 1: and Twitter and all these things. I was getting banned
Speaker 1: and suspended and all the time for these things they
Speaker 1: were wrong about absolutely everything. I just got back from honeymoon,
Speaker 1: which is great, by the way, fantastic. Yeah, oh yes,
Speaker 1: congratulations to you, thank you very much. Yeah. Married. Now
Speaker 1: I gotta I gotta catch up. You got four kids
Speaker 1: that we're you know, we're we gotta we gotta make
Speaker 1: some some some babies happen here. But I'm working on it.
Speaker 1: I'm working on it. Um. But you know, you you
Speaker 1: look at LAX for example. I mean, I just I
Speaker 1: just came through LAX. I'm not going to pretend that
Speaker 1: it's everybody, but because obviously it's a it's a small group.
Speaker 1: I'd say five percent of LAX. When you're walking around,
Speaker 1: one out of twenty people are still wearing a mask,
Speaker 1: And I honestly think that they're emotionally they been emotionally
Speaker 1: traumatized by their own tribe, and that's what's really happened.
Speaker 1: I'm like, they can't turn it off now. No, I
Speaker 1: think that's where a lot of people are. And it's
Speaker 1: very sad because myopically, protecting yourself from very small physical
Speaker 1: risks at the loss of your emotional well being and
Speaker 1: the fulfillment of your life its purpose is really really bad.
Speaker 1: You shouldn't do that, and your government shouldn't do that
Speaker 1: to you, which is what it attempted to do for
Speaker 1: three years, and there were people who spoke out about it.
Speaker 1: But look, I went to a children's museum with my
Speaker 1: kids today, and the protocols before I went because I
Speaker 1: don't take my kids to places they can enjoy, right,
Speaker 1: and it says, oh, that they are going to enforce
Speaker 1: masking on unvaccinated people over five, And I'm like, is
Speaker 1: this real? So I took I took them by the
Speaker 1: museum and realized, Okay, this is not enforced at all,
Speaker 1: and then I told them, you need to take this
Speaker 1: off your website because I don't want to if this
Speaker 1: is on yours. What I've realized is that they only
Speaker 1: hear from the Karens on that side, and I need
Speaker 1: to be a Karen for my own side, like I
Speaker 1: need to be saying children are not supposed to have
Speaker 1: their enjoyment taken away from them for no reason at
Speaker 1: this museum, and you need to stop advertising that you're
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Speaker 1: It always has reminded me to city. By the way,
Speaker 1: do you know who? I mean? Obviously you know who,
Speaker 1: because that's why I'm telling you the story. I in
Speaker 1: my New York City apartment building I lived in I
Speaker 1: used to live in. It's like a sixty five story
Speaker 1: building and you know, huge building, and so it had
Speaker 1: a pretty big gym in the building. Even after the
Speaker 1: all clear and the gyms were open and everything like that.
Speaker 1: I mean, not the all clear, but you know, even
Speaker 1: after they're reopened and you don't have to wear masks anymore. Basically,
Speaker 1: when the vaccine rollout happened, they left all the you
Speaker 1: must mask up signs even though the policy changed. So
Speaker 1: they sent out an email saying, you don't have to
Speaker 1: mask up anymore, but all the signage stayed up. And
Speaker 1: I walked around, and there are people that do it.
Speaker 1: I literally pulled down, one after another all of these
Speaker 1: signs and threw them in the trash. And I was
Speaker 1: walking around like, hey, who pulled down the signs? Man?
Speaker 1: That's all those Like? Why were the It's like, because
Speaker 1: the whole point of the exercise was the psychological control.
Speaker 1: The whole point of the exercise was compliance training based
Speaker 1: on whatever the apparatus decided at any point, and so
Speaker 1: I refuse it. It was you know, even to this day,
Speaker 1: you see, and I was coming through I went through
Speaker 1: a bunch of airports because I was in the South Pacific,
Speaker 1: I was in French Polynesia. It's very nice, highly recommended.
Speaker 1: But even in the airport in uh then Papiette, which
Speaker 1: is the main city in French Polynesian Tahiti, and even
Speaker 1: the airport you'll see you know, must wear a mask
Speaker 1: signs all over the place. To me, it's like the
Speaker 1: I don't know if you ever see these. I've seen
Speaker 1: these before because they have them in New York. They
Speaker 1: used to have these old, weird things, like a little
Speaker 1: symbol that you would see on some buildings. And I
Speaker 1: learned one day these are nuclear fallout shelters. Okay, they're
Speaker 1: nuclear fallout and they're still they're still sitting there. You're
Speaker 1: just in case. And I kind of want to tell everybody,
Speaker 1: if they ever have to really get you in the
Speaker 1: nuclear fallout shelter, you probably want to go in the
Speaker 1: first wave. Like it's probably too late, right, right, what's
Speaker 1: your philosophy on that. No, I my uh, I think
Speaker 1: I would. I was probably a little later than you
Speaker 1: to the game on the lockdown stuff and like this,
Speaker 1: don't everybody was, but yes, yeah, but I think by
Speaker 1: it was in April of twenty twenty that we're sending
Speaker 1: out questionnaires to parents about whether you'd send your kids
Speaker 1: to school, and I was like just mashing every button,
Speaker 1: like yes, yes, my children can go to school. Yes,
Speaker 1: I will sit in them in person, Yes I will
Speaker 1: do this. And it made absolutely no difference because they
Speaker 1: weren't interested in a person like me who had a
Speaker 1: rational assessment of whether this was dangerous to my children
Speaker 1: and figured out very quickly that it seemed not to
Speaker 1: be and that school might be the better option than oh,
Speaker 1: I don't know. Keeping most every metro areas millions of
Speaker 1: children out of a regular schools schedule for more than
Speaker 1: a year eighteen months in some places it was appalling.
Speaker 1: And to watch Randy Wine Garden, you know, the head
Speaker 1: of what is it the American Federation of Teachers or
Speaker 1: is it the other one? I always so there's the
Speaker 1: two big tea. Yeah she's yeah, she's at So to
Speaker 1: watch Randy Winegarden go around and act like she want
Speaker 1: recently in the last six months that she was an
Speaker 1: advocate for schools opening. Look, I think this is a
Speaker 1: problem that that Trump is going to have to deal
Speaker 1: with now in the primary, which is that YE twenty
Speaker 1: twenty was absolutely mishandled. From a COVID perspective, things were
Speaker 1: wrong in the beginning. Fine, I just want to say
Speaker 1: to everybody, you got a sixty day window, which I
Speaker 1: think is pretty generous to just be like, look, this
Speaker 1: is crazy. You know how many people are gonna die.
Speaker 1: I don't know what's going on. We're all scared. After that,
Speaker 1: you're responsible for the decisions you're making because you have
Speaker 1: data here in America. And Fouci was able to Fouci,
Speaker 1: and Lenski was able well not Lenski. Game later, who's
Speaker 1: the other one? Burks? Burks was able to Burs and
Speaker 1: Randy Weinarden was able to dictate and whether schools would open.
Speaker 1: I mean the stuff that was allowed to happen, and
Speaker 1: I'm not willing to let this stuff go. I guess
Speaker 1: that's kind of I would have a hard time at
Speaker 1: this point being spending spending a lot of time around somebody,
Speaker 1: for example, who isn't embarrassed by the notion of masking,
Speaker 1: who doesn't realize what a sham the whole thing was,
Speaker 1: Like I would, I would have a difficult time being
Speaker 1: around that person for an extended period of time. Now,
Speaker 1: I think you're right. There are policy differences that will
Speaker 1: be hashed out in a primary on this, and there
Speaker 1: are records to talk about on this, and so I
Speaker 1: think that's going to be interesting, and it's interesting to
Speaker 1: see how you do that because I'm with you where
Speaker 1: I'm like, people need to admit that they were wrong
Speaker 1: or else we're just going to do this again. Yes,
Speaker 1: it's very obvious to me that that's what's coming. However,
Speaker 1: how do you run a political campaign where you adjudicate
Speaker 1: that don't look backwards looking versus forwards looking. That's what
Speaker 1: I'm a little worried about with Republicans because I think
Speaker 1: that I think they're need a reckoning about this, and
Speaker 1: I'm not sure how you do it without sounding two
Speaker 1: backwards looking as opposed to the opposite. Yeah, I also
Speaker 1: worry that Republicans I have, well, I have a lot
Speaker 1: of worries. There's a whole other podcasts we have to
Speaker 1: do about the things I'm concerned about when it comes
Speaker 1: to the Republican Party right now. I feel like we
Speaker 1: are not learning the lessons we should learn from from
Speaker 1: painful election losses in the last two cycles. What do
Speaker 1: you think about that? Yeah, yeah, Look, it's I've never
Speaker 1: had a lot of faith in politicians in general, even
Speaker 1: the ones that I tend to like, so I'm not
Speaker 1: terribly surprised when they don't learn from these things. But
Speaker 1: I think, look, we have seen in several cycles that
Speaker 1: there's a bunch of people. Oh, let's just take Yunkin
Speaker 1: in Virginia for instance. Right, He's a guy who runs
Speaker 1: in Virginia and appeals to basically the demographic that I am,
Speaker 1: not to be too self referential, but a like pretty normy,
Speaker 1: suburbandicated mom who's mad about school closings. But maybe he
Speaker 1: doesn't go towards a more trump a line candidate, right,
Speaker 1: And Younkin walked this very skillful line where he ended
Speaker 1: up bringing out plenty of rural voters but so brought
Speaker 1: out people in northern Virginia who wouldn't otherwise vote for Republicans,
Speaker 1: and like, if you can't do that, you're not going
Speaker 1: to win in these purple areas right. But I think
Speaker 1: that I think that you can walk that line and
Speaker 1: you can be smart about the facts you're marshaling, which
Speaker 1: he was on schools, which Ronda Santis has repeatedly on
Speaker 1: dealing with COVID. He's marshaling facts. He's telling people, look,
Speaker 1: this is the way, this is where the data points.
Speaker 1: And I think that smart approach instead of a more
Speaker 1: I don't know, brash like bullying approach which desile right.
Speaker 1: I think can people in my demographic do you think
Speaker 1: that the Democrat Party and this I like to remind
Speaker 1: people Joe Biden the White House, they have officially weighed
Speaker 1: in on gender transition for kids. I mean, this is
Speaker 1: White House policy. This is this is not just activists.
Speaker 1: This is from the absolute top of the Democrat Party
Speaker 1: on down. Do you think the men can get pregnant
Speaker 1: phenomenon from Democrats? Could cost them if Republicans explain that
Speaker 1: this it's just part of a broader campaign of crazy.
Speaker 1: I think that can matter a lot. And I think
Speaker 1: it matters in Northern Virginia getting some of those folks
Speaker 1: as an example, because I was close to it and
Speaker 1: it had a lot of these issues at play. But
Speaker 1: these policy for folks, and there are a lot of
Speaker 1: people out there who are not haters, who are nonetheless
Speaker 1: unwilling to believe that their daughters are sons or their
Speaker 1: sons are daughters just because a school counselor said so,
Speaker 1: Like that's not a thing that most voters are okay with,
Speaker 1: and having that pushed via their public schools that they're
Speaker 1: paying for, which buys down for a year, like it
Speaker 1: makes they're not learning to read, but we're doing this. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I think the radical agenda of the left as it
Speaker 1: pertains to kids in school and as it pertains to
Speaker 1: equity and inclusion is if the Republicans just get it
Speaker 1: together and really message properly on this. I just think
Speaker 1: the Democrats, one, I think they can't win on those arguments,
Speaker 1: and I think that they're sixty forty maybe even seventy
Speaker 1: thirty issues. Well, actually, the kids and the gender thing
Speaker 1: is more like a ninety five five issue, But the
Speaker 1: equity and inclusion stuff, I mean affirmative action. Really. For example,
Speaker 1: affirmative action in America is an eighty twenty issue at
Speaker 1: this point, meaning about eighty percent of the country's like,
Speaker 1: you really shouldn't be doing this stuff anymore. Yeah, but
Speaker 1: the press remarkably has no concept of that. None. None,
Speaker 1: But the school does think. I pitched people on stories
Speaker 1: about how this school closing stuff is really going to
Speaker 1: matter in this governor's race in Virginia, and several publications
Speaker 1: are like, now, I don't really think that's a thing. Wow, yeah, okay,
Speaker 1: we'll see. Yeah. They could probably go work at CNN.
Speaker 1: Mary Katherhem everybody, mkh hammer, go check out Getting Hammered
Speaker 1: her podcast. Mary Catherine Hamm Yeah on sub stack. She's
Speaker 1: gonna be letting it fly as she is now a
Speaker 1: we're sued to be a totally free agent in the
Speaker 1: world media. We look forward to our next stuff. Please
Speaker 1: come back and hang out this again. There's a lot
Speaker 1: of fun. We could have covered a whole lot more stuff,
Speaker 1: and next time around we will. Thanks for hanging out,
Speaker 1: of course, glad to be here.