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Speaker 1: Hey, y'all, I'm Kelly Bannon, and I am filling in

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Speaker 1: for our dear Kelly Henderson this week. Maybe you caught

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Speaker 1: our first episode, which was The Velvet. I interviewed my husband,

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Speaker 1: Jeff Grossman, who is a therapist. M Honestly, I like

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Speaker 1: it was kind of hard. It was kind of hard

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Speaker 1: interviewing my man. I hadn't done that before. UM, but

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Speaker 1: I felt like, actually, we we talked about some pretty

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Speaker 1: cool stuff as it relates to therapy. He's a therapist.

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Speaker 1: We talked about how to go about finding a great

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Speaker 1: therapist in some of the conversations you navigate when you're

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Speaker 1: entering therapy and things like that. UM, check it out

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Speaker 1: if you missed it, um. And then today I've got

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Speaker 1: something really special for you. I'm hype about it. UM.

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Speaker 1: But I was gonna just contextualize this by saying, UM, one,

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Speaker 1: I think that Kelly Henderson is setting such a great

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Speaker 1: example by taking some time off for herself, and UM,

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Speaker 1: I hope that on the other side of it, she

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Speaker 1: is refreshed and just renewed with greater focus. I think

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Speaker 1: we do idolize business. We think that business equates to importance,

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Speaker 1: and I often do that in my own life, like

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Speaker 1: how much do I have going on? Or like when

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Speaker 1: someone reaches out about getting together and I'm like, well,

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Speaker 1: we're gonna have to look in December, Like do I

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Speaker 1: feel pride that I'm busy? Like that's gross. So, UM,

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Speaker 1: I just appreciate Kelly kind of setting the tone here

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Speaker 1: as far as mental health is concerned, and just taking

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Speaker 1: a second for herself. And like, if you're one of

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Speaker 1: those people that needs permission to take a second, like

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Speaker 1: I always need permission for everything, I'm giving you permission.

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Speaker 1: This is your written this is your verbal permission go

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Speaker 1: take a second for you, say no to something for

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Speaker 1: you so you can say yes to the things that

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Speaker 1: really matter. So thank you so much for joining us

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Speaker 1: on this episode. This is gonna be the edge, is

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Speaker 1: gonna be a little bit more playful. Um a teeny

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Speaker 1: bit of context about me. I am a singer songwriter

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Speaker 1: here in Nashville, Tennessee. It's my hometown. I love welcoming

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Speaker 1: people to nash Alt to my hometown. And then I

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Speaker 1: also host um a couple of shows for Apple Music Radio.

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Speaker 1: I host a daily show called The Kelly Bannon Show,

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Speaker 1: which is just jams and a little bit of like

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Speaker 1: in Saturda Baseball of the music business. Um. And then

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Speaker 1: on Fridays, I host a show called Today's Country. It's

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Speaker 1: kind of the biggest headlines in country, wrapped in music

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Speaker 1: and thoughtful conversations with artists. It's really fun. But it

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Speaker 1: all started because I had a podcast that I started

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Speaker 1: about six years ago called This Nashville Life. And ultimately,

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Speaker 1: actually that might have been the reason that Kelly and

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Speaker 1: Kelly interviewed me for Velvet's Edge a few years ago.

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Speaker 1: UM about about that, and gosh, I just I have

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Speaker 1: a ton of respect for her. I love her nobuleshit

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Speaker 1: kind of attitude. I wish I could embrace a little

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Speaker 1: bit more of that ethos and um also we this

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Speaker 1: is like one of maybe my favorite things is that

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Speaker 1: she a bit of like a doppelganger for me, which

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Speaker 1: feels like a huge compliment. Like when she told me

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Speaker 1: one time that people were confusing us, like in our

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Speaker 1: names are both Kelly, so that's kind of tricky. I

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Speaker 1: was like beyond flattered, so thrilled because y'all know she's

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Speaker 1: got legs for days, and who doesn't want to look

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Speaker 1: like Kelly Henderson. So I will take it. But I'm

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Speaker 1: afraid y'all can tell by my voice that we're not

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Speaker 1: truly doppelgangers, because I'm way down here like baritone land

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Speaker 1: and she's like a normal, normal woman voice. But without

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Speaker 1: further ado, Um, we're today, We're gonna sit down with

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Speaker 1: one of my best friends. UM, truly, truly one of

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Speaker 1: those people that I just see her face and my

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Speaker 1: day is better. Um, my life is better because I

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Speaker 1: have her in my in it. And um, she also

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Speaker 1: happens to be kind of a bookworm. So we're gonna

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Speaker 1: we're gonna stay on our therapy theme, but we're gonna

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Speaker 1: talk about some fun reads in kind of the therapy

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Speaker 1: book world. I'm pretty hype. I'm really hyped to introduce

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Speaker 1: everybody to one of my favorite humans and maybe maybe

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Speaker 1: my favorite human on Earth. And her name is Brenna Perkins.

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Speaker 1: And if Jeff, my husband, who you guys met a

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Speaker 1: few days ago on the Velvet Side of the Velvet's

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Speaker 1: Edge podcast, if he hears that, like, I won't, I

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Speaker 1: won't even be embarrassed because he knows that he's like

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Speaker 1: second second. But seriously, like, Brenna is one of the sunniest,

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Speaker 1: most charismatic personalities I've ever come across. Y'all know I

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Speaker 1: work in the music industry. There's a lot of very

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Speaker 1: charming people, and it just it just doesn't get more

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Speaker 1: charming than Brenna. In my opinion, She's just one of

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Speaker 1: my She's my absolute, just my absolute absolute. So that

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Speaker 1: is so kind, and you've also seen me at my worst.

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Speaker 1: Thank you for saying that. But here's what I was

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Speaker 1: I was thinking. I would love for you to set

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Speaker 1: up a little bit like you have had your own

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Speaker 1: moments in the right sparkly spotlight. So I would love

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Speaker 1: to hear a little bit just about your story if

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Speaker 1: you kind of just give us the sure sure. Well,

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Speaker 1: I am originally from a small town in Wyoming that

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Speaker 1: is the coal mining capital of the United States of America,

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Speaker 1: and I think I've always been a city girl at heart,

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Speaker 1: and I've always been a Southern girl at heart, as

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Speaker 1: much as I love growing up there. So like I

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Speaker 1: kind of always had these big, like sparkly dreams outside

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Speaker 1: of Gillette, Wyoming that I wanted to pursue, and so

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Speaker 1: I moved to Nashville to go to bell Lant University

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Speaker 1: to pursue broadcast journalism in two thousand seven and Nashville

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Speaker 1: just became my home. But I had always grown up

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Speaker 1: doing theater and loving hair and makeup and all of

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Speaker 1: those types of things, and so I knew that those

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Speaker 1: were being on stage and pursuing, you know, exciting glamorous

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Speaker 1: things where things I wanted to do when I moved

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Speaker 1: to Nashville. So I did some work as a hair

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Speaker 1: and makeup artist. I did some work as a TV host.

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Speaker 1: I was and pageants. I you know, I'm always trying

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Speaker 1: to get you talk about the pageant life. Kelly should

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Speaker 1: have done a pageant. She does have a fascinating great

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Speaker 1: in the crown. Here's the thing, and maybe this is

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Speaker 1: from my my late bloomers out there that are listening,

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Speaker 1: like what is it about beauty pageants? That I was

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Speaker 1: always kind of like fascinated and a little horrified, probably

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Speaker 1: because you have the swimsuit body. She knows how to

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Speaker 1: be on stage. She's got a talent. She was made

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Speaker 1: for the pageant. Honestly, I'm like, wait, I think at first,

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Speaker 1: when I was first meeting you, I was like, oh

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Speaker 1: my gosh, like can I be friends with a beauty queen.

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Speaker 1: It's funny though, because it's like from doing theater I

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Speaker 1: think that's how I think of pageants, is like I

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Speaker 1: grew up going to them. The Miss Wyoming Pageant was

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Speaker 1: held in my hometown. I always went, We always watched

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Speaker 1: Miss America. I loved it, and it never ever occurred

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Speaker 1: to me like, oh, I could do this, because like,

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Speaker 1: I wasn't glamorous, I didn't own an evening gown, Like

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Speaker 1: I didn't know how to walk in high heels. But

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Speaker 1: what I was very familiar with was theater and creating

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Speaker 1: a character. And there's a lot of similarities between those two.

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Speaker 1: And yes, you're showing up as yourself, but you're showing

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Speaker 1: up as the beauty queen version of yourself. So it's

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Speaker 1: like do I wear fake eyelashes and have pageant makeup

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Speaker 1: in my everyday life? No, But in that scenario, I

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Speaker 1: loved it, And you know, so, I think there's a

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Speaker 1: lot of similarities between like theater, So it is like

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Speaker 1: a character that you create and you're wanting to like

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Speaker 1: put your best foot forward. But it's like me on

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Speaker 1: the pageant stage isn't like the me You're going to

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Speaker 1: bump into a Kroger. Well, here's what I'm curious about too,

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Speaker 1: because I think I have set up in my life. Okay, guys,

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Speaker 1: First of all, we aren't going to just only have

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Speaker 1: serious talk today. We're gonna have a great time. I'm

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Speaker 1: gonna go ahead and tease this. Brenna is a bit

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Speaker 1: of I would call you a sexy bookworm, and we're

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Speaker 1: going to talk specifically about like a sub genre of

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Speaker 1: books that we're both really into. Connect to our last podcast.

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Speaker 1: But I do want to just like, there's some good

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Speaker 1: meat on this bone here, So I just do want

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Speaker 1: to stay here for a second and go Okay. So,

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Speaker 1: I feel like there have been a handful of milestones

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Speaker 1: in my life, some of them that I've achieved and

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Speaker 1: some of them that I haven't. That it's like, I think,

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Speaker 1: if I hit them, I will feel this about myself.

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Speaker 1: And I wonder if for you winning Miss Tennessee, was

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Speaker 1: there like a question in your heart that you thought

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Speaker 1: you would answer when you had that crown on your head?

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Speaker 1: For sure? Um, I had done the Miss Teen USA

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Speaker 1: pageant as the wyoming delegate, and I feel like that

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Speaker 1: gave me a lot of confidence, and it gave me

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Speaker 1: a lot of good things. And so when I knew

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Speaker 1: that I was coming to Belmont for school, I knew

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Speaker 1: that I wanted to pursue going to Miss USA as

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Speaker 1: Miss Tennessee, and I kind of thought, you know, i've

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Speaker 1: been to a national pageant before, I've got some experience

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Speaker 1: under my belt, like, I think I can do this.

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Speaker 1: And then I showed up my first of three years

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Speaker 1: at the Miss Tennessee pageant and I didn't even make

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Speaker 1: the top five, and so it was very humbling, and

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Speaker 1: I think it was hard on my confidence in a

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Speaker 1: way as well, because I was like, oh, maybe I

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Speaker 1: don't have it's. Oh gosh, who out there connects with

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Speaker 1: that thought maybe I don't have it? And I think

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Speaker 1: I think that, yeah, no, and I probably still do

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Speaker 1: to an extent, and so there's a way where I

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Speaker 1: think maybe I was chasing that, like you said, for

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Speaker 1: some validation, and but I was like, oh, if I

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Speaker 1: don't win on my first time, then I don't have

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Speaker 1: it um, And I almost didn't come back. And then

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Speaker 1: what I realized, though, is that these Southern girls and

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Speaker 1: pageants do not play around, and I had to get

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Speaker 1: on their level. Like they all have a personal trainer,

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Speaker 1: they all have someone teaching them how to do the

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Speaker 1: walk on stage, they have someone a professional helping them

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Speaker 1: with their hair and makeup, like they have a professional

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Speaker 1: for every aspect of the competition, and so I just

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Speaker 1: knew that I had to get on their level. And

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Speaker 1: then second year still didn't have it. And so that

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Speaker 1: third year I finally won. And wait, so you did?

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Speaker 1: Did you place that set? What happened the second years?

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Speaker 1: I placed hire every year. My second year ironically was

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Speaker 1: probably my best year of competition ever, and I still

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Speaker 1: didn't win. Which is an interesting thing about pageants being

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Speaker 1: in the music industry. Um, anything where someone's opinion is

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Speaker 1: going to determine, like your fate. It's not how hard

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Speaker 1: you work, it's not how well you do. It's really

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Speaker 1: just sometimes like time pageants, it's timing, and it's like, okay,

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Speaker 1: you could have a panel of judges and they might

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Speaker 1: choose me one day, and they might choose you the

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Speaker 1: next day. There's a lot of Look, they choose every day.

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Speaker 1: They would choose you consistently. I have no doubt. But okay,

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Speaker 1: see this, that's interesting. That's a great parallel. Y'all know,

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Speaker 1: I'm a singer songwriter and a big question that I have.

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Speaker 1: I mean, we talked about my therapy journey a little

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Speaker 1: bit on the last episode. Um that, like I'm constantly

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Speaker 1: want to grade myself like how good I am on

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Speaker 1: the outcome, like how well my song did, And that

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Speaker 1: is in our in our minds, which is not true

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Speaker 1: the measure of like how talent it we are or

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Speaker 1: do we have it or whatever. And it's just like

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Speaker 1: with your radio stuff, it's just like pageants. It's like, okay,

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Speaker 1: well what's already on the radio right now? What other

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Speaker 1: female singers? What other you know, there's all these variables

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Speaker 1: that actually have nothing to do with your talent and

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Speaker 1: how good the song is and how well you sang

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Speaker 1: on it or any of the above. Is there's a

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Speaker 1: lot of luck in timing involved. Yeah, that's interesting. I'm

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Speaker 1: guessing that's probably true. And a lot of business and

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Speaker 1: a lot of entertainment business especially Okay tell us, okay,

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Speaker 1: are there things that people are there assumptions that people

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Speaker 1: make about beauty queens or former beauty queens. Would you

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Speaker 1: like to dispel any? I mean, there definitely aren't. I've

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Speaker 1: probably had some of those assumptions going into it too,

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Speaker 1: especially as like the smalltown girl from Wyoming. I remember

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Speaker 1: like walking into the ballroom of checking day at Miss

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Speaker 1: Tin USA, and there's like girls in their bikinis doing

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Speaker 1: their photo shoots and this, this, this and that, and

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Speaker 1: so it's like, yeah, you're like, are they're going to

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Speaker 1: be stuck up, They're gonna think they're better than everybody else?

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Speaker 1: Are they going to be stupid? X, Y, and Z?

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Speaker 1: And when I came to realize, of course, there are

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Speaker 1: exceptions to every rule. But what I realized is that

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Speaker 1: if you are the type of person who is ambitious, charismatic,

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Speaker 1: m articulate enough to show up and win your state pageant,

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Speaker 1: or even show up at your state pageant to begin with,

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Speaker 1: there's probably gonna be a lot of like mindedness there.

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Speaker 1: There's very few girls that show up just thinking, you know,

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Speaker 1: that they're hot stuff and they've got it in the

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Speaker 1: bag like everybody's got in security and somebody might act

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Speaker 1: like that, but that's not what's actually going on under

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Speaker 1: the surface. And so I've actually ended up connecting so

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Speaker 1: much with so many of the people that I competed with,

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Speaker 1: and to this day, so many of them are some

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Speaker 1: of my closest friends. And it's like, man, if they

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Speaker 1: could win over the judges, they can probably win you

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Speaker 1: over too with their with their charm, they're smarts, their

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Speaker 1: beauty all that. So a lot of fantastic women and pageants. Actually,

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Speaker 1: I was kind of just giggling thinking about you, Brenna,

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Speaker 1: like have your own little vernacular, Like you have phrases

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Speaker 1: that you and your people you've trained your people do

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Speaker 1: you that are like our inside jokes? And one of

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Speaker 1: those is like such a did I say it? Not

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Speaker 1: even really know you? Yeah, y'all know, like such as

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Speaker 1: do you all know? Can you you don't know? Please

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Speaker 1: look up the YouTube video of Miss South Carolina teen.

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Speaker 1: That's all you have to type in, I'll come up.

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Speaker 1: Miss South Carolina teen famously answered what like the like

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Speaker 1: the big question? Yes, I'm trying to even think what

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Speaker 1: the question was. Maybe it was about education or access

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Speaker 1: to like, and she just froze, and she just said,

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Speaker 1: I personally believe that US Americans don't have maps and

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Speaker 1: the Iraq, Antarctica everything like such as always said, Um,

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Speaker 1: a lot of Americans can't locate the US on the map.

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Speaker 1: Why do you think this is? And pros I personally

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Speaker 1: believe I could recite like the whole thing from it.

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Speaker 1: It was amazing And anytime I can slip legs such

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Speaker 1: as into a conversation, I will did you have you

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Speaker 1: ever had that freeze moment on stage? No, I freaking thrive.

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Speaker 1: I've had that moment in many other situations in life.

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Speaker 1: But like you got me up there with two sets

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Speaker 1: of false eyelashes on in a sparkly gown and I've

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Speaker 1: been working out for three hours a day for two months.

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Speaker 1: I am in my element. Not to say it couldn't

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Speaker 1: have happened. I didn't do it that many times. That

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Speaker 1: is funny. Oh man, Okay, So I'm going to start

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Speaker 1: to steer us in the direction of today's topic. So

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Speaker 1: this is the Edge. The Velvet side of the Velvet

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Speaker 1: Edge podcast is a little bit more hard. We're gonna

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Speaker 1: we're gonna deal with a little bit of hard and

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Speaker 1: a little bit of fun. A little bit of edge too,

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Speaker 1: I would love because we're kind of picking up. So

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Speaker 1: I did I tell you I interviewed Jeff for the

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Speaker 1: Velvet part of the podcast. It's funny, Jeff, we kind

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Speaker 1: of got in a minor fight afterwards because I was like,

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Speaker 1: oh babe, I was like, you were so low energy,

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Speaker 1: Like he was very you know how, there's two versions

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Speaker 1: of Jeff. There. There's the sue version of Jeff. It's

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Speaker 1: another it's a joke. It has to do with flatulence.

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Speaker 1: I apologize. There's the Suey version of Jeff, which is

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Speaker 1: like hype, so hype you're almost embarrassed to be with him.

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Speaker 1: And then there's like the I wouldn't say aloof but

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Speaker 1: like kind of low key. He was so low key

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Speaker 1: and I was kind of like, babe, like we're doing

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Speaker 1: a guest I think there's something about being on a

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Speaker 1: microphone though, too, that is weird. Even if you've done

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Speaker 1: it a lot, you're like, wait, shows, should I talk

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Speaker 1: like this and b series or do I need to

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Speaker 1: like pump up the energy so like the fun comes

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Speaker 1: to the microphone. Yeah, he was just fary. So we

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Speaker 1: got in like a teeny fight. He told me that.

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Speaker 1: I like, he was like, you kind of hurt my

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Speaker 1: feelings when you graded me. I was like, well, no,

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Speaker 1: you did a great job. But we did. We talked

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Speaker 1: about kind of like demystifying therapy, the therapy process, how

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Speaker 1: to find a great um counselor who's a good fit

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Speaker 1: for you, and kind of just his approach. So that

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Speaker 1: was kind of cool. But and and today we're talking

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Speaker 1: specifically there's been this kind of phenomenon in the last

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Speaker 1: few years where a lot of therapy centric books have

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Speaker 1: hit the mainstream in a massive way. They've been New

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Speaker 1: York Times bestsellers, or they're the subject of like a

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Speaker 1: really big fiction novel. And so we are you are

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Speaker 1: my resident book worm, And I was seeing we could

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Speaker 1: go back and forth about some of those books that

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Speaker 1: people might be if they're interested in therapy, generally, they

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Speaker 1: might these might be up there alley, But I'd love

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Speaker 1: to contextualize the conversation by talking a little bit about

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Speaker 1: your own therapy experience, if you wouldn't mind chance. Totally, totally.

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Speaker 1: I feel like the things that have typically led me

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Speaker 1: to therapy in the past, Um, one is improving relationships.

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Speaker 1: And another one is I don't seem to handle change well,

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Speaker 1: even if it's like a change. Um you know. I

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Speaker 1: think like being freshly out of college, I was having

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Speaker 1: a quarter life crisis and just spinning about that. And

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Speaker 1: then I think also right after I got married, even

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Speaker 1: though that was a great change, it was still a

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Speaker 1: massive change, and it just um made me go inward

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Speaker 1: and really consider like how I grew up in my

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Speaker 1: family of origin and now I have my own family

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Speaker 1: of origin, and what things do I want to bring

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Speaker 1: forward into our home? And what things do I not

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Speaker 1: want to bring forward into our home? And how am

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Speaker 1: I gonna the things that I don't want to bring forward?

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Speaker 1: How am I gonna relearn those and hopefully try to

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Speaker 1: do those better? And that was just that was just

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Speaker 1: weighing pretty heavy on me after we got married, So

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Speaker 1: the change and also just like wanting to improve relationships.

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Speaker 1: But gosh, it's so layered the ways that it has

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Speaker 1: benefited me from like learning to have boundaries. Um, that's

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Speaker 1: I think a harder one for women in general for sure,

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Speaker 1: and especially if you've ever had a person in your

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Speaker 1: life that uses like guilt or shame is a way

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Speaker 1: to motivate you or punish you. Um or at least

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Speaker 1: that's there's some of that in my story. UM. So yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's so hard. Um. I think even just being able

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Speaker 1: to name what's circling around in your head gives you

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Speaker 1: the power, like naming it gives you the power to

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Speaker 1: make some changes. Um. And actually I don't know why,

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Speaker 1: there is something about just naming it that takes some

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Speaker 1: of the power away. If I'm really if I have

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Speaker 1: a lot of fear about something that's coming up, just

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Speaker 1: putting words to that and being able to like, huh,

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Speaker 1: I'm feeling like a little frenzied and a little like

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Speaker 1: for me, a lot of my hang around my anxiety

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Speaker 1: will be a little it'll be often, I'll it's like,

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Speaker 1: I just feel a little frenzied. And if I can

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Speaker 1: slow down long enough and go, wait, I must be

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Speaker 1: have fear about something and saying it out loud like, oh,

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Speaker 1: I'm fear I have fear about Well. I don't know

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Speaker 1: why that starts to take the power away, but it does.

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Speaker 1: And and if you can feel heard in that at

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Speaker 1: the same time and somebody might validate you or help

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Speaker 1: you through it or give you a piece of advice

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Speaker 1: or or whatever it is, Um and else still have

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Speaker 1: on my list. Oh, this is a big one for me.

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Speaker 1: That other people's opinions of me aren't always true and

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Speaker 1: they don't define Me's been a big thing. That's other

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Speaker 1: people's opinions of me are not always true and they

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Speaker 1: don't define me. Oh yeah, yeah, what's what's one of

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Speaker 1: your biggest takeaways? One for well, you know, one from

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Speaker 1: I would just more characterize a lot of my early

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Speaker 1: therapy journey especially was realizing that I didn't I had

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Speaker 1: to do work to figure out who I was, and

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Speaker 1: that it wasn't intuitive that I felt very lost and

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Speaker 1: I was trying to be things for other people. So

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Speaker 1: I would spend a lot of time reading the room

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Speaker 1: to be what the room wanted me to be, whatever

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Speaker 1: the metaphorical room maybe, instead of reading myself health to

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Speaker 1: know what I was feeling or who I was in

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Speaker 1: that moment. So a lot of my early work in

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Speaker 1: therapy was like developing a self so much like I

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Speaker 1: feel like that's like work. I'm doing it still, I'm

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Speaker 1: still doing that. That's long work. But and then just

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Speaker 1: realizing how much shame um or you know, honestly, the

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Speaker 1: other thing is you'all. I don't know if you all have,

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Speaker 1: if anybody out there this listeningess suffers from any kind

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Speaker 1: of anxiety, If you have just always had a low

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Speaker 1: hum to a mid hum of anxiety in your life

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Speaker 1: as long as you can remember, you actually don't know

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Speaker 1: you suffer from anxiety. You just think that's what it's

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Speaker 1: like to walk around the world. And so when I

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Speaker 1: started to realize, oh wait, that's not normal. Oh I

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Speaker 1: having the reason that I want to throw up and

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Speaker 1: quit every time I have to go out on stage

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Speaker 1: to do the thing that I love is like, that's

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Speaker 1: actually my anxiety talking, and that it's not it's not

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Speaker 1: more true than like, but there's a way where your

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Speaker 1: anxiety makes you feel or your shame or whatever like it.

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Speaker 1: It's screaming the loudest in that moment of like, I

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Speaker 1: am what's true about you and it's not. So yeah,

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Speaker 1: this kind of reminds me of your first one is

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Speaker 1: other people's opinions of me are none of my business.

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Speaker 1: And here's what I'm trying to work on right now

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Speaker 1: is I saw that Katie Kirk put out a T

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Speaker 1: shirt that says I'm not for everyone. I'm trying to

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Speaker 1: be okay with not being for everyone, and I'm like

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Speaker 1: very people pleasing and I sincerely like a lot of

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Speaker 1: people and want to be friends with everybody. That's kind

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Speaker 1: of my personality and m I don't have to be

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Speaker 1: for everyone. That's a hard one. And I don't know

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Speaker 1: if Kelly's audience is more male or is more female

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Speaker 1: than male. My assumption is yes, but I don't know,

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Speaker 1: so y'all tell us. But I was I think that's

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Speaker 1: a specifically hard one for women too. It's like, um,

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Speaker 1: but by being for everyone, you're kind of not for anyone,

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Speaker 1: and so I think being cool with In fact, I

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Speaker 1: think Kelly embraces that really well, like yeah, you're you know,

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Speaker 1: it's kind of a the hater's moment. It's like, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I'm just legit not going to be for everyone, and

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Speaker 1: that's okay and doesn't mean something's wrong with me, and

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Speaker 1: it doesn't mean something wrong with you. It's just like, yeah,

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Speaker 1: so okay, So today I think we're going to talk

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Speaker 1: I know we're going to talk about three books in particular.

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Speaker 1: We might get to a fourth, but I was going

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Speaker 1: to start with one that we have unless you want

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00:22:41,200 --> 00:22:43,160
Speaker 1: to do this like a fourth grade book report, which

427
00:22:43,200 --> 00:22:45,480
Speaker 1: I would be into. Did you bring in any like

428
00:22:46,760 --> 00:22:52,840
Speaker 1: boast reboards? Um? I was thinking, what if we talked

429
00:22:52,840 --> 00:22:57,840
Speaker 1: about the book group people okay who have hung hung

430
00:22:57,880 --> 00:23:00,080
Speaker 1: with us from the second from the first episode, we

431
00:23:00,080 --> 00:23:02,480
Speaker 1: actually talked about how Jeff is a group therapist and

432
00:23:02,560 --> 00:23:05,000
Speaker 1: does a lot of group work. If you're kind of

433
00:23:05,040 --> 00:23:08,439
Speaker 1: curious about group dynamics, there is a book called Group

434
00:23:09,000 --> 00:23:12,199
Speaker 1: How one therapist in a circle of strangers saved My

435
00:23:12,280 --> 00:23:15,880
Speaker 1: Life by Christie Tate that we both read this year

436
00:23:16,840 --> 00:23:22,760
Speaker 1: and we both loved, devoured it. It was so I

437
00:23:22,760 --> 00:23:26,840
Speaker 1: had really never thought much or really knew much about

438
00:23:26,840 --> 00:23:30,000
Speaker 1: what group therapy was until we became friends and you

439
00:23:30,080 --> 00:23:32,199
Speaker 1: told me a little bit about what Jeff did, and

440
00:23:32,240 --> 00:23:35,159
Speaker 1: so I already had an interest in it. And this

441
00:23:35,200 --> 00:23:37,159
Speaker 1: book is kind of interesting compared to some of the

442
00:23:37,160 --> 00:23:39,080
Speaker 1: other ones that we're going to talk about, because this

443
00:23:39,160 --> 00:23:44,719
Speaker 1: is written from the perspective of a client, someone in therapy,

444
00:23:44,760 --> 00:23:46,720
Speaker 1: whereas the other books were going to discuss are written

445
00:23:46,760 --> 00:23:50,800
Speaker 1: from the perspective of the therapist. And um, Christie Tate

446
00:23:51,000 --> 00:23:55,920
Speaker 1: is almost like alarming Lee honest, And I think that's

447
00:23:55,920 --> 00:23:58,240
Speaker 1: something that draws you into the book because it's like,

448
00:23:58,280 --> 00:24:01,080
Speaker 1: if she's feeling it, she's saying it in therapy and

449
00:24:01,119 --> 00:24:03,280
Speaker 1: she's experiencing it, and it's just there's a lot of

450
00:24:03,320 --> 00:24:08,040
Speaker 1: bravery with how honest she is and how much she discloses.

451
00:24:09,160 --> 00:24:11,840
Speaker 1: But there's just so many cool things about the dynamics

452
00:24:11,960 --> 00:24:14,439
Speaker 1: of airing your dirty laundry in a group of people,

453
00:24:14,520 --> 00:24:17,880
Speaker 1: because as they're having realizations about their own stuff, there's

454
00:24:17,880 --> 00:24:20,879
Speaker 1: all these themes, these human themes, and what you might

455
00:24:20,920 --> 00:24:23,680
Speaker 1: be dealing with is totally different from me, but like

456
00:24:24,160 --> 00:24:26,280
Speaker 1: the human heart connection of it or the heart of

457
00:24:26,320 --> 00:24:30,480
Speaker 1: the matter is that's the same. And Um, the other

458
00:24:30,560 --> 00:24:33,199
Speaker 1: thing I think that is so cool about what you

459
00:24:33,240 --> 00:24:37,200
Speaker 1: get to witness in this book is there is this

460
00:24:37,320 --> 00:24:44,240
Speaker 1: sort of unabashed like healthy groups, healthy healthy therapy groups

461
00:24:44,720 --> 00:24:48,280
Speaker 1: are shockingly honest. It's like, this is a group of

462
00:24:48,280 --> 00:24:52,160
Speaker 1: people you aren't friends with. You don't have to caretake

463
00:24:52,240 --> 00:24:54,600
Speaker 1: your relationship with them in the same ways that we

464
00:24:54,680 --> 00:24:57,960
Speaker 1: do in sort of typical social settings. So you can

465
00:24:58,080 --> 00:24:59,800
Speaker 1: say the true thing. It doesn't mean you're going to

466
00:24:59,880 --> 00:25:03,920
Speaker 1: be kind, but you can be a very real, very

467
00:25:04,000 --> 00:25:07,639
Speaker 1: unfiltered version of yourself because everyone in the group is

468
00:25:07,640 --> 00:25:11,439
Speaker 1: committed to the confidentiality. If you break confidentiality loway normal

469
00:25:11,640 --> 00:25:14,439
Speaker 1: therapy group's work. If you break that confidentiality, you have

470
00:25:14,480 --> 00:25:16,640
Speaker 1: to come back and tell the group about it. Hey,

471
00:25:16,680 --> 00:25:19,000
Speaker 1: I told my wife that this, that or the other

472
00:25:19,080 --> 00:25:21,520
Speaker 1: thing about you. It's like and then the group is

473
00:25:21,560 --> 00:25:25,040
Speaker 1: like deals with it together. Um, I would say too,

474
00:25:25,119 --> 00:25:27,480
Speaker 1: as just like, I mean, I don't know how you

475
00:25:27,480 --> 00:25:30,240
Speaker 1: guys help there pick your books. I usually just read

476
00:25:30,240 --> 00:25:32,600
Speaker 1: whatever Brenna tells me too, But this was a Reese's

477
00:25:32,640 --> 00:25:35,400
Speaker 1: Book Club choice. It was a New York Times bestseller.

478
00:25:36,000 --> 00:25:39,959
Speaker 1: UM the the therapist who's kind of the center of

479
00:25:40,000 --> 00:25:43,400
Speaker 1: this UM book. His I think the name has changed,

480
00:25:43,440 --> 00:25:46,439
Speaker 1: but he is a real therapist in Chicago who is

481
00:25:46,560 --> 00:25:49,359
Speaker 1: very well known in the group world. Jeff had actually

482
00:25:49,359 --> 00:25:52,840
Speaker 1: been has been at like UM some conferences where he

483
00:25:53,240 --> 00:25:55,199
Speaker 1: has been in attendance. And he's a he's a he

484
00:25:55,240 --> 00:25:58,159
Speaker 1: looms large, but one seems to be a polarizing figure.

485
00:25:58,320 --> 00:26:00,199
Speaker 1: Like as I was reading the reviews on this book,

486
00:26:00,320 --> 00:26:04,119
Speaker 1: I loved it, but he seems to be a polarizing figure.

487
00:26:04,600 --> 00:26:07,439
Speaker 1: I think that's what makes him interesting in this And

488
00:26:07,480 --> 00:26:13,760
Speaker 1: I think that's actually, you know, maybe that's maybe that's

489
00:26:13,800 --> 00:26:17,840
Speaker 1: an element of good therapists to the they're a little

490
00:26:17,880 --> 00:26:20,560
Speaker 1: provocative and they're not for everyone. Like to hop on

491
00:26:20,600 --> 00:26:23,320
Speaker 1: our last point, it's like you are really looking for

492
00:26:23,359 --> 00:26:26,760
Speaker 1: someone that helps you get what you're looking for, and

493
00:26:26,840 --> 00:26:29,040
Speaker 1: that's that's not going to be for everyone. And there

494
00:26:29,119 --> 00:26:32,879
Speaker 1: was a quote from this UM or the in like

495
00:26:32,960 --> 00:26:37,040
Speaker 1: one of the synopsis it was like Dr Rosen is

496
00:26:37,400 --> 00:26:39,320
Speaker 1: the I don't think that's his real name, that's his

497
00:26:39,400 --> 00:26:42,160
Speaker 1: name in the book. And UM issues a nine word

498
00:26:42,240 --> 00:26:47,439
Speaker 1: prescription for Christie, and it is you don't need to cure,

499
00:26:48,080 --> 00:26:53,320
Speaker 1: you need a witness, isn't that? Why does that just

500
00:26:53,520 --> 00:26:56,199
Speaker 1: get me in my heart? It punches me in my

501
00:26:56,200 --> 00:26:59,320
Speaker 1: heart balls when I was exactly when I was kind

502
00:26:59,320 --> 00:27:01,720
Speaker 1: of like reading the synopsis of the book because it's

503
00:27:01,720 --> 00:27:03,640
Speaker 1: been a bit since I've read it that I mean,

504
00:27:03,680 --> 00:27:05,240
Speaker 1: that punched me and it was almost like I was

505
00:27:05,280 --> 00:27:07,720
Speaker 1: hearing it for the first time, because I think sometimes

506
00:27:07,760 --> 00:27:10,639
Speaker 1: my mindset going to therapy or my mindset telling my

507
00:27:10,640 --> 00:27:13,399
Speaker 1: best friend my problems is like what's the cure, And

508
00:27:13,440 --> 00:27:15,320
Speaker 1: it's like often we really don't need the cure, or

509
00:27:15,359 --> 00:27:17,320
Speaker 1: there's not going to be a cure today, or there

510
00:27:17,359 --> 00:27:20,960
Speaker 1: may never be a cure. But like for somebody to witness,

511
00:27:21,040 --> 00:27:25,520
Speaker 1: for somebody to hear, for somebody to listen, value, whatever

512
00:27:25,560 --> 00:27:27,399
Speaker 1: it may be, is like there's a lot of power

513
00:27:27,400 --> 00:27:30,640
Speaker 1: in that. I think this hits on a really important

514
00:27:30,680 --> 00:27:32,840
Speaker 1: theme that, like, you know, I think you could bring

515
00:27:32,880 --> 00:27:35,520
Speaker 1: into friendship whether you are like a therapy person or not,

516
00:27:35,600 --> 00:27:39,000
Speaker 1: which is most people don't want to be fixed, and

517
00:27:39,040 --> 00:27:41,639
Speaker 1: actually most people don't need to be fixed. Like I

518
00:27:41,720 --> 00:27:44,200
Speaker 1: come to you with my problem, I'm not actually looking

519
00:27:44,200 --> 00:27:46,359
Speaker 1: for you to tell me how to fix it. I

520
00:27:46,560 --> 00:27:49,080
Speaker 1: just need to know that someone that cares about me

521
00:27:49,520 --> 00:27:51,840
Speaker 1: heard me in it. And I think that's that kind

522
00:27:51,840 --> 00:27:55,000
Speaker 1: of like cure versus witness. It's like, just be with

523
00:27:55,040 --> 00:27:58,679
Speaker 1: me in it, right, don't solve it for me so highly.

524
00:27:58,720 --> 00:28:02,840
Speaker 1: I usually want you to solve it for me. Okay, noted, noted, Um,

525
00:28:02,880 --> 00:28:06,160
Speaker 1: But I think, y'all, um, it's it's pretty fast paced.

526
00:28:06,520 --> 00:28:09,480
Speaker 1: You become really attached to the intrigued by the other

527
00:28:09,560 --> 00:28:13,800
Speaker 1: characters in the group. And she is very, very honest

528
00:28:13,920 --> 00:28:19,920
Speaker 1: and um, and her real transformation is really compelling to me. Yes.

529
00:28:20,119 --> 00:28:22,560
Speaker 1: So that is group How one therapist and a circle

530
00:28:22,600 --> 00:28:26,960
Speaker 1: of strangers saved my life by Christie Tates. Okay, yeah, y'all.

531
00:28:27,440 --> 00:28:30,040
Speaker 1: Oh um, let's okay. Let me see. I want you

532
00:28:30,080 --> 00:28:32,640
Speaker 1: to rate these and I want you to rate them

533
00:28:33,040 --> 00:28:37,320
Speaker 1: on a scale from I'm trying to think of something

534
00:28:37,359 --> 00:28:41,120
Speaker 1: funny and inside our personality. Okay, I want you to

535
00:28:41,360 --> 00:28:46,480
Speaker 1: rate them from one to five tinctures. It kind of

536
00:28:46,560 --> 00:28:50,000
Speaker 1: is always liked doing tincchers and things for her her wellness.

537
00:28:50,120 --> 00:28:54,400
Speaker 1: One to five tinctures. My gosh, I'm a really generous

538
00:28:54,480 --> 00:28:56,760
Speaker 1: judge because there's some of my favorite books. I went

539
00:28:57,080 --> 00:28:59,040
Speaker 1: on my good Reads today to see how I rated them.

540
00:28:59,040 --> 00:29:03,360
Speaker 1: I think I readed all these five five tinctuers. Um, okay,

541
00:29:04,040 --> 00:29:10,240
Speaker 1: this next me Ashwaganda carry on. Um, this is a

542
00:29:10,280 --> 00:29:13,240
Speaker 1: book I haven't read. Jeff is reading it right now.

543
00:29:13,400 --> 00:29:17,080
Speaker 1: You've read it. It's everywhere. It's a New York Times bestseller.

544
00:29:17,280 --> 00:29:20,880
Speaker 1: It's called Maybe you should talk to someone a therapist.

545
00:29:21,160 --> 00:29:26,280
Speaker 1: Her therapist and our Lives revealed by Laurie Gottlieb tell

546
00:29:25,600 --> 00:29:29,200
Speaker 1: me about it. Okay. Of every book that I have

547
00:29:29,280 --> 00:29:32,880
Speaker 1: recommended to friends, this one has come back the most popular,

548
00:29:33,160 --> 00:29:35,440
Speaker 1: which a friend actually recommended it to me, and I

549
00:29:35,480 --> 00:29:37,000
Speaker 1: was like, oh, this is right up my alley. I

550
00:29:37,040 --> 00:29:39,360
Speaker 1: devoured it. I in my good Reads review, I said,

551
00:29:39,440 --> 00:29:41,400
Speaker 1: I am going to have to grieve the fact that

552
00:29:41,680 --> 00:29:43,160
Speaker 1: this book is over and then I'm not going to

553
00:29:43,280 --> 00:29:45,640
Speaker 1: spend any more time with these characters. And I also

554
00:29:45,880 --> 00:29:48,640
Speaker 1: I already know that I will reread it. Um. I

555
00:29:48,680 --> 00:29:51,280
Speaker 1: have recommended this book to so many friends, and every

556
00:29:51,280 --> 00:29:55,040
Speaker 1: single friend that has read it has come back raving

557
00:29:55,040 --> 00:30:00,280
Speaker 1: about it. So I actually really a professional. I need

558
00:30:00,320 --> 00:30:01,840
Speaker 1: to follow up with him about it. If I was

559
00:30:01,880 --> 00:30:03,880
Speaker 1: a more prepared podcast host, I would have said, have

560
00:30:03,920 --> 00:30:07,800
Speaker 1: you finished that? Boo kt um? Okay, why though? Why

561
00:30:08,200 --> 00:30:10,680
Speaker 1: sell me? Why I want to? I know you love it.

562
00:30:10,720 --> 00:30:12,920
Speaker 1: I know everybody else loves it. What am I getting

563
00:30:12,920 --> 00:30:17,719
Speaker 1: out of it? It's another true story, which is interesting.

564
00:30:18,160 --> 00:30:20,479
Speaker 1: Like for me, that's just compelling when it comes to

565
00:30:20,560 --> 00:30:22,720
Speaker 1: this type of thing because I think there's so much

566
00:30:22,760 --> 00:30:26,040
Speaker 1: real world application. And I think that's the benefit of

567
00:30:26,360 --> 00:30:28,920
Speaker 1: going back to our last book of group therapy, which

568
00:30:29,040 --> 00:30:31,080
Speaker 1: this isn't group therapy, but you feel like it is

569
00:30:31,120 --> 00:30:33,320
Speaker 1: in a way because you're inside the therapy room with

570
00:30:33,360 --> 00:30:36,200
Speaker 1: so many people. So there's Laurie and she's a therapist

571
00:30:36,240 --> 00:30:39,160
Speaker 1: in real life. She's like changed the names and meshed

572
00:30:39,200 --> 00:30:42,479
Speaker 1: some of the stories to keep people's lives confidential so

573
00:30:42,520 --> 00:30:45,560
Speaker 1: that you couldn't pick it out. But she is counseling

574
00:30:45,760 --> 00:30:48,280
Speaker 1: these different people through various things in their life. She

575
00:30:48,360 --> 00:30:51,280
Speaker 1: has like a narcissist. She has a severely depressed, depressed

576
00:30:51,320 --> 00:30:54,640
Speaker 1: person who um says they're going to commit suicide by

577
00:30:54,640 --> 00:30:56,920
Speaker 1: their next birthday if their life doesn't turn around. There

578
00:30:57,000 --> 00:31:00,440
Speaker 1: is a young newly married woman with a terminal illness. Um.

579
00:31:00,480 --> 00:31:02,360
Speaker 1: There's just so much going on. But then she goes

580
00:31:02,400 --> 00:31:05,560
Speaker 1: through this massive life change, and so she starts going

581
00:31:05,600 --> 00:31:11,520
Speaker 1: to therapy. And I think when you read and listen

582
00:31:11,560 --> 00:31:15,120
Speaker 1: to and pay attention to other people's stories, especially in

583
00:31:15,120 --> 00:31:18,320
Speaker 1: this context where people are doing the work and striving

584
00:31:18,320 --> 00:31:20,840
Speaker 1: to get better, there are just so many insights about

585
00:31:20,920 --> 00:31:25,000
Speaker 1: your own life. Like I learned things about myself from

586
00:31:25,040 --> 00:31:30,360
Speaker 1: reading about the characters in this book, Like, oh my gosh, Okay,

587
00:31:30,360 --> 00:31:32,040
Speaker 1: it's also been a while since I read this one.

588
00:31:32,080 --> 00:31:34,680
Speaker 1: I'll have let me let me think on that. Or

589
00:31:34,760 --> 00:31:40,880
Speaker 1: you found it like you found yourself learning. Yes, that's helpful. Yes,

590
00:31:42,920 --> 00:31:48,680
Speaker 1: it was Oprah magazine Best Nonfiction book of two. Um

591
00:31:48,720 --> 00:31:51,600
Speaker 1: it apparently is being developed into a TV series do

592
00:31:51,600 --> 00:31:54,640
Speaker 1: we know anything about that? But gosh, I hope they

593
00:31:54,640 --> 00:31:56,240
Speaker 1: don't mess it up because the book was so good.

594
00:31:56,240 --> 00:31:58,720
Speaker 1: So that's maybe you should talk to someone a therapist.

595
00:31:58,760 --> 00:32:02,520
Speaker 1: Her therapist and our live six tinctures, six out of

596
00:32:02,560 --> 00:32:08,560
Speaker 1: five tinctures. Okay, third, that's a good intro book, Like

597
00:32:08,640 --> 00:32:10,800
Speaker 1: I think that's a good book to start Start there,

598
00:32:10,920 --> 00:32:14,120
Speaker 1: all right, folks, if you like of this list, start there,

599
00:32:14,520 --> 00:32:17,840
Speaker 1: I think start there. Okay. This third book on our

600
00:32:17,880 --> 00:32:20,000
Speaker 1: list is when we both read, I probably read it.

601
00:32:20,160 --> 00:32:24,240
Speaker 1: I always get an without without fail. January. I want

602
00:32:24,280 --> 00:32:26,240
Speaker 1: to be my best self. And I'm like, I'm gonna

603
00:32:26,280 --> 00:32:28,320
Speaker 1: read and I'm not going to watch TV this year.

604
00:32:28,720 --> 00:32:31,720
Speaker 1: And I read like six books in January. I read

605
00:32:31,800 --> 00:32:36,600
Speaker 1: a book in February and then I don't read again. So, um,

606
00:32:36,640 --> 00:32:38,240
Speaker 1: I did I read? I think I read this in

607
00:32:38,320 --> 00:32:42,080
Speaker 1: January or February. It's called Good Morning Monster. You've probably

608
00:32:42,120 --> 00:32:44,200
Speaker 1: seen it because it has this like fried egg on

609
00:32:44,240 --> 00:32:46,520
Speaker 1: the cover. I feel like I was seeing it everywhere.

610
00:32:46,880 --> 00:32:51,040
Speaker 1: Good Morning Monster, a therapist shares five heroic stories of

611
00:32:51,080 --> 00:32:56,240
Speaker 1: emotional recovery. It's by Catherine Guilden Er Guildener I think so,

612
00:32:57,320 --> 00:33:03,080
Speaker 1: and um so Catherine was a psychologist for twenty five

613
00:33:03,160 --> 00:33:07,959
Speaker 1: years and then very renowned, very renowned, I believe from

614
00:33:08,120 --> 00:33:11,280
Speaker 1: what I read. And then at fifty we Love, We

615
00:33:11,360 --> 00:33:14,480
Speaker 1: Love a woman chasing her dreams at any age. And

616
00:33:14,520 --> 00:33:17,520
Speaker 1: then at fifty she left private practice to become a

617
00:33:17,560 --> 00:33:21,800
Speaker 1: writer and then wrote a couple of bestsellers memoirs. I

618
00:33:21,800 --> 00:33:23,800
Speaker 1: think she has maybe one novel and then this is

619
00:33:24,080 --> 00:33:28,080
Speaker 1: I think her most recent book. Yeah, good Morning Monster.

620
00:33:28,200 --> 00:33:31,400
Speaker 1: One thing I love. Provocative title, right, I'm immediately like,

621
00:33:31,520 --> 00:33:34,680
Speaker 1: what is that? So lay it out, lay out the

622
00:33:35,080 --> 00:33:37,520
Speaker 1: this book first. Okay, I think I read this one

623
00:33:37,560 --> 00:33:40,320
Speaker 1: over Christmas. Kind of a heavy book to read over

624
00:33:40,360 --> 00:33:42,600
Speaker 1: the holidays, to be honest, don't know if I would recommend,

625
00:33:42,640 --> 00:33:43,960
Speaker 1: but I could not put it down. I read it

626
00:33:44,000 --> 00:33:47,320
Speaker 1: in twenty four hours. It is again real life tales

627
00:33:47,480 --> 00:33:51,360
Speaker 1: of people who have just overcome what you would not

628
00:33:51,400 --> 00:33:57,640
Speaker 1: think that anyone could overcome, like think of child abuse,

629
00:33:57,720 --> 00:34:00,520
Speaker 1: think of child neglect. I mean, just like the hardest,

630
00:34:01,160 --> 00:34:04,280
Speaker 1: most painful traumatic experiences that you could endure in life.

631
00:34:04,720 --> 00:34:08,120
Speaker 1: She's counseling these people through over a period of years

632
00:34:08,200 --> 00:34:13,040
Speaker 1: and years and um watching them transform and live healthy

633
00:34:13,120 --> 00:34:17,759
Speaker 1: or healthier productive lives and be happy and go on

634
00:34:17,800 --> 00:34:24,520
Speaker 1: to lift themselves out of I mean really, I mean

635
00:34:24,560 --> 00:34:27,319
Speaker 1: and then you know, and just in trauma for me

636
00:34:27,480 --> 00:34:29,759
Speaker 1: one thing. And we touched on this on the other

637
00:34:30,080 --> 00:34:33,239
Speaker 1: the other podcast episode where I introde and interviewed my

638
00:34:33,280 --> 00:34:36,799
Speaker 1: husband Jeff Grossman. We talked a little bit about UM

639
00:34:37,280 --> 00:34:42,880
Speaker 1: client pay like client um therapist relationship. This is one

640
00:34:42,920 --> 00:34:47,520
Speaker 1: of those books where you you see how deeply she

641
00:34:47,760 --> 00:34:52,279
Speaker 1: cares for her patients, which kind of gives you it's like, oh, man,

642
00:34:52,520 --> 00:34:54,880
Speaker 1: like I don't know, I feel like it's almost good

643
00:34:54,920 --> 00:34:58,480
Speaker 1: for it's good for therapy overall, because it's like it

644
00:34:58,600 --> 00:35:01,440
Speaker 1: shows you this glimpse into like how deeply someone like

645
00:35:01,560 --> 00:35:05,880
Speaker 1: they're not just taking your your hundreds and it's like

646
00:35:05,960 --> 00:35:09,719
Speaker 1: she cares deeply for her clients. She gets counsel on

647
00:35:09,760 --> 00:35:13,040
Speaker 1: how to help them, and she's rooting for them in

648
00:35:13,040 --> 00:35:14,960
Speaker 1: this deep and beautiful way. And then she knows that

649
00:35:15,080 --> 00:35:20,080
Speaker 1: in sharing their stories, like it gives you, well, when

650
00:35:20,400 --> 00:35:24,600
Speaker 1: what is it? Brenna? Like, there is something about when

651
00:35:24,680 --> 00:35:27,880
Speaker 1: we we can I don't know. Sometimes I think we

652
00:35:27,960 --> 00:35:32,280
Speaker 1: have our own pet traumas and it's like my trauma

653
00:35:32,360 --> 00:35:36,359
Speaker 1: is so big no one can understand it. But then

654
00:35:36,440 --> 00:35:40,239
Speaker 1: you see other people's trauma there is something more. It's like,

655
00:35:40,280 --> 00:35:45,560
Speaker 1: oh wow, you know every like truly everyone is carrying

656
00:35:45,600 --> 00:35:48,719
Speaker 1: their own burden and there is something kind of normalizing

657
00:35:48,760 --> 00:35:53,200
Speaker 1: about just like suffering is real and her is you know.

658
00:35:53,320 --> 00:35:58,359
Speaker 1: But probably one of the more provocative characters is where

659
00:35:58,360 --> 00:36:01,959
Speaker 1: the title comes from? Will you tell without totally giving

660
00:36:02,000 --> 00:36:03,800
Speaker 1: it away? Can you tell us like where the title

661
00:36:03,880 --> 00:36:11,120
Speaker 1: comes from? Yea um a girl growing up in privilege,

662
00:36:11,160 --> 00:36:14,040
Speaker 1: I think in New York and she is greeted by

663
00:36:14,080 --> 00:36:18,640
Speaker 1: her mother every morning. Her mom says to her good

664
00:36:18,640 --> 00:36:22,280
Speaker 1: Morning Monster like her good Morning Monster. Her mom wasn't

665
00:36:22,280 --> 00:36:25,520
Speaker 1: for her, and he her mom wasn't being cheeky. She

666
00:36:25,680 --> 00:36:31,040
Speaker 1: was like, yeah, um yeah, it's it's truly every day

667
00:36:31,200 --> 00:36:34,080
Speaker 1: that your monster by your primary caregiver and your primary

668
00:36:34,080 --> 00:36:38,600
Speaker 1: attachment figure. Yeah. I also it was one of those

669
00:36:38,600 --> 00:36:42,759
Speaker 1: couldn't put it down. Um, very very hopeful. Even even

670
00:36:42,760 --> 00:36:46,160
Speaker 1: though it's got really there are some really hard, devastating scenes.

671
00:36:46,280 --> 00:36:48,840
Speaker 1: It is a story. It ultimately is a story of

672
00:36:48,880 --> 00:36:52,719
Speaker 1: healing um and she's a great writer, so good it

673
00:36:52,760 --> 00:36:56,320
Speaker 1: makes me want to read her other books. How many teachers?

674
00:36:55,600 --> 00:36:58,959
Speaker 1: Five teachers? So we're going to recap. So far we've

675
00:36:58,960 --> 00:37:02,839
Speaker 1: covered group Um, which we gave five tea chers too.

676
00:37:02,920 --> 00:37:06,080
Speaker 1: We covered maybe you should talk to someone six six

677
00:37:06,120 --> 00:37:11,640
Speaker 1: out of five, and then Good Morning Monster gets five.

678
00:37:18,920 --> 00:37:21,640
Speaker 1: I was going to say another book that we both read,

679
00:37:21,680 --> 00:37:25,959
Speaker 1: if y'all are looking for some fiction, was a psychological

680
00:37:26,040 --> 00:37:29,120
Speaker 1: thriller called The Silent Patient, And I really don't know

681
00:37:29,120 --> 00:37:32,200
Speaker 1: how to explain it without giving too much away. It's

682
00:37:32,480 --> 00:37:36,240
Speaker 1: how do you pronounced this author's name, Alex Michael Eads

683
00:37:36,400 --> 00:37:41,200
Speaker 1: or maybe I'm making that up, but the Silent Patient

684
00:37:42,040 --> 00:37:44,920
Speaker 1: in this case, um one. It's just like if you're

685
00:37:44,920 --> 00:37:51,440
Speaker 1: into therapy. The primary character is a therapist who's obsessed

686
00:37:51,520 --> 00:37:57,640
Speaker 1: with uncovering sort of the violent history behind his patient

687
00:37:57,880 --> 00:38:00,640
Speaker 1: who is to be a famous artist in his side

688
00:38:00,680 --> 00:38:02,719
Speaker 1: and won't speak, and she had been a part of

689
00:38:02,719 --> 00:38:05,600
Speaker 1: a crime, and ever since the crime happened, she refuses

690
00:38:05,640 --> 00:38:08,800
Speaker 1: to speak. So he's obsessed with getting her to speak

691
00:38:08,800 --> 00:38:12,000
Speaker 1: and uncovering the story behind the crime. But it's like

692
00:38:12,480 --> 00:38:16,600
Speaker 1: there's a TWI there's a twist I of every book

693
00:38:16,600 --> 00:38:18,600
Speaker 1: I've read like that. I did not see that ending coming.

694
00:38:18,640 --> 00:38:20,960
Speaker 1: I don't know if you didn't, I didn't either, And

695
00:38:21,000 --> 00:38:24,040
Speaker 1: I feel like I can see around some of the curves.

696
00:38:24,080 --> 00:38:26,160
Speaker 1: So The Silent Patient, if you're looking for some fiction

697
00:38:26,600 --> 00:38:28,279
Speaker 1: really good to read, honestly, would be a great read

698
00:38:28,360 --> 00:38:30,719
Speaker 1: right now because it's a little spooky, be fun to like,

699
00:38:30,800 --> 00:38:33,520
Speaker 1: curl up by the fire, get under a blanket. Um,

700
00:38:33,600 --> 00:38:38,360
Speaker 1: what is on your book shelf? Of four out of

701
00:38:38,480 --> 00:38:41,719
Speaker 1: five tincts, I give it. I really enjoyed that, but

702
00:38:41,880 --> 00:38:44,239
Speaker 1: loved it. I definitely gave it five stars. It's it's

703
00:38:44,320 --> 00:38:46,239
Speaker 1: less of like you're not you're not going to like

704
00:38:46,920 --> 00:38:49,120
Speaker 1: wrap that book up and give it to your daughter

705
00:38:49,320 --> 00:38:52,040
Speaker 1: as an inspiring story, which you really truly might do

706
00:38:52,120 --> 00:38:53,839
Speaker 1: with like group or maybe you should talk to someone.

707
00:38:53,920 --> 00:38:56,120
Speaker 1: But it was a great, great read. Fun. It was

708
00:38:56,160 --> 00:38:59,080
Speaker 1: a fun read. Yeah, yep, like a heavy beach read.

709
00:38:59,160 --> 00:39:01,640
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, I agree. What is on your

710
00:39:01,680 --> 00:39:04,960
Speaker 1: bookshelf to be read or to be finished that we

711
00:39:04,960 --> 00:39:08,400
Speaker 1: should just we want to bekay? Okay. So I've been

712
00:39:08,440 --> 00:39:11,600
Speaker 1: I'm really into wellness in general, and I've kind of

713
00:39:11,640 --> 00:39:13,959
Speaker 1: been on this wellness journey for the past like five years,

714
00:39:14,000 --> 00:39:16,880
Speaker 1: trying to overcome some autoimmune stuff. And in the last

715
00:39:17,000 --> 00:39:19,600
Speaker 1: year I have started going to this functional medicine doctor

716
00:39:19,719 --> 00:39:22,080
Speaker 1: and he is the first practitioner I've been too that

717
00:39:22,160 --> 00:39:24,800
Speaker 1: has brought it to my attention that like your overall

718
00:39:24,840 --> 00:39:27,879
Speaker 1: wellness and your overall health, there is like he, as

719
00:39:27,920 --> 00:39:31,920
Speaker 1: an m D acknowledges that your emotional health plays a

720
00:39:32,040 --> 00:39:36,040
Speaker 1: huge role in the physical health of your body. Um.

721
00:39:36,080 --> 00:39:39,360
Speaker 1: And so through going to him and other practitioners that

722
00:39:39,400 --> 00:39:41,680
Speaker 1: he recommended, it was like every practitioner that he was

723
00:39:41,719 --> 00:39:44,560
Speaker 1: sending me to, I'm just curious and I'm always getting

724
00:39:44,560 --> 00:39:45,839
Speaker 1: to know people. When I'm in the room and we're

725
00:39:45,920 --> 00:39:48,960
Speaker 1: chat chat chatting. Almost every single one of them recommended

726
00:39:49,000 --> 00:39:52,000
Speaker 1: a book called The Body Keeps the Score. I think

727
00:39:52,040 --> 00:39:54,920
Speaker 1: I legit. Have it on yep, I have it. I'm

728
00:39:54,920 --> 00:39:57,480
Speaker 1: gonna you're gonna hear some cranky sounds of my my

729
00:39:57,520 --> 00:40:01,879
Speaker 1: bookcase opening. We're getting it out. I have it. It's

730
00:40:01,880 --> 00:40:04,799
Speaker 1: got kind of like a moody figure on the front.

731
00:40:04,880 --> 00:40:08,239
Speaker 1: It's kind of like cool pop art um. The Body

732
00:40:08,280 --> 00:40:12,600
Speaker 1: Heaps the Score, Brain, Mind and Body in the Healing

733
00:40:12,640 --> 00:40:18,560
Speaker 1: of Trauma by bessel Vander. That's a lot bessel Vander,

734
00:40:18,600 --> 00:40:21,000
Speaker 1: colke m D. What can you tell us about it?

735
00:40:21,000 --> 00:40:23,320
Speaker 1: Obviously I haven't ready. I've only read chapter one. It

736
00:40:23,440 --> 00:40:26,400
Speaker 1: is a heavy book with a lot of scientific information.

737
00:40:26,440 --> 00:40:29,640
Speaker 1: The first chapter was all about like the history of

738
00:40:29,960 --> 00:40:33,640
Speaker 1: treating mental illness and PTSD and when they uncovered and

739
00:40:33,760 --> 00:40:37,360
Speaker 1: named what PTSD was, and it was fascinating, but also

740
00:40:37,440 --> 00:40:39,359
Speaker 1: like there's only so much of it that you can

741
00:40:39,560 --> 00:40:41,600
Speaker 1: really take in at a time. Whereas these other books,

742
00:40:41,719 --> 00:40:44,120
Speaker 1: if you've got like the time on a Saturday in

743
00:40:44,160 --> 00:40:46,719
Speaker 1: the bathtub, as I often do, you could devour them.

744
00:40:46,800 --> 00:40:49,240
Speaker 1: This one is not one I think that you could devour.

745
00:40:49,320 --> 00:40:53,919
Speaker 1: But I think there's a lot of like practical, very

746
00:40:53,960 --> 00:40:57,239
Speaker 1: interesting information and like reading the summary, it seems like

747
00:40:57,280 --> 00:41:01,680
Speaker 1: there are like literally it's unpacking the places where like

748
00:41:01,840 --> 00:41:04,480
Speaker 1: in your own trauma store. From what I understand, and

749
00:41:04,520 --> 00:41:07,680
Speaker 1: I haven't haven't read this book, but one a therapist

750
00:41:07,680 --> 00:41:12,520
Speaker 1: that I worked with said, trauma it actually affects your

751
00:41:12,560 --> 00:41:17,560
Speaker 1: genetic material and can be passed down to generations. So

752
00:41:17,680 --> 00:41:22,840
Speaker 1: that would mean trauma that my grandparents endured is written

753
00:41:22,840 --> 00:41:25,960
Speaker 1: in the d n A that I carry. But this

754
00:41:26,000 --> 00:41:30,799
Speaker 1: book is arguing that, um, there's coping mechanisms, and I'm

755
00:41:30,840 --> 00:41:33,359
Speaker 1: all for like a prescription if that's needed. But I

756
00:41:33,400 --> 00:41:35,520
Speaker 1: think one of the things that this book is talking

757
00:41:35,560 --> 00:41:40,239
Speaker 1: about is like through mindfulness and through like connecting with

758
00:41:40,320 --> 00:41:42,960
Speaker 1: your own body and even like certain types of like

759
00:41:43,160 --> 00:41:46,279
Speaker 1: yoga and movement or E M, d R or these

760
00:41:46,320 --> 00:41:49,120
Speaker 1: different types of and I think mindfulness is a huge

761
00:41:49,120 --> 00:41:53,480
Speaker 1: thing that you can um through those things that you

762
00:41:53,520 --> 00:41:56,440
Speaker 1: can become healthy. And obviously that's not true in every situation,

763
00:41:56,520 --> 00:42:00,520
Speaker 1: but like really interesting. So that's on. I want to

764
00:42:00,719 --> 00:42:03,040
Speaker 1: we'll report back with how many teachers out of five,

765
00:42:03,200 --> 00:42:06,200
Speaker 1: but this might take me a while. It's been everywhere.

766
00:42:06,239 --> 00:42:08,319
Speaker 1: Is there anything else, like you know, we're not going

767
00:42:08,400 --> 00:42:09,960
Speaker 1: to cover in depth, but I was going to say,

768
00:42:10,000 --> 00:42:12,520
Speaker 1: I you know, I know people. I think Kelly has

769
00:42:12,520 --> 00:42:15,680
Speaker 1: talked about the Angiograham before on the podcast, so maybe

770
00:42:15,719 --> 00:42:17,479
Speaker 1: The Road Back to You would be a good rat.

771
00:42:17,760 --> 00:42:20,680
Speaker 1: That's a great book if you are interested in just

772
00:42:20,840 --> 00:42:24,600
Speaker 1: exploring ani Agraham, And that is a it's a sort

773
00:42:24,600 --> 00:42:28,160
Speaker 1: of type of personality test um, a lens to look

774
00:42:28,160 --> 00:42:31,080
Speaker 1: at personality types through and that's kind of the formative

775
00:42:31,200 --> 00:42:34,319
Speaker 1: the foremost book on that topic. But they also have

776
00:42:34,320 --> 00:42:36,640
Speaker 1: another book called The Path between Us that is about

777
00:42:36,680 --> 00:42:41,600
Speaker 1: relationships between different numbers, which is also interesting stuff if

778
00:42:41,600 --> 00:42:44,279
Speaker 1: you're just interested in, like the human condition. Why do

779
00:42:44,360 --> 00:42:46,359
Speaker 1: we do what we do and what motivates us? And

780
00:42:46,760 --> 00:42:49,040
Speaker 1: why do we go to this place when we're unhealthy,

781
00:42:49,080 --> 00:42:51,880
Speaker 1: and why when we're healthy, you know, do we do

782
00:42:51,920 --> 00:42:56,680
Speaker 1: these other things? It's fascinating. Yes, well, Brenna, do you

783
00:42:56,719 --> 00:42:59,320
Speaker 1: have any parting words before we wrap up this episode

784
00:42:59,320 --> 00:43:02,480
Speaker 1: of The Edge? I'm like, should we do this every week?

785
00:43:02,840 --> 00:43:06,239
Speaker 1: I'm again, I'm thriving, I'm having the best time. We

786
00:43:06,360 --> 00:43:09,640
Speaker 1: also having we I um, I haven't used that broadcast

787
00:43:09,680 --> 00:43:14,200
Speaker 1: journalism degree in a bit. Honestly, I'm gonna raise my

788
00:43:14,239 --> 00:43:17,120
Speaker 1: glass to you were drinking some seed lip because your

789
00:43:17,120 --> 00:43:20,839
Speaker 1: girl over indulged last night. And I just know at

790
00:43:20,880 --> 00:43:24,040
Speaker 1: forty those hangovers they hit hard, and I can't. I

791
00:43:24,080 --> 00:43:26,480
Speaker 1: can't go a bunch of nights in a row. I

792
00:43:26,520 --> 00:43:30,400
Speaker 1: don't know about y'all. I'm trying to make this my

793
00:43:30,400 --> 00:43:33,800
Speaker 1: My therapist says it giving a gift to my future self.

794
00:43:34,520 --> 00:43:37,080
Speaker 1: When you do the thing, the five minute thing that

795
00:43:37,160 --> 00:43:40,640
Speaker 1: actually makes your day better later or makes tomorrow a

796
00:43:40,680 --> 00:43:42,400
Speaker 1: little better, It's like I'm giving a gift to my

797
00:43:42,440 --> 00:43:44,920
Speaker 1: future self. I'm giving a gift to my future self.

798
00:43:44,920 --> 00:43:47,640
Speaker 1: I'm not whining and boozing with you right now, but

799
00:43:47,680 --> 00:43:49,239
Speaker 1: we're just drinking a little. See that it feels like

800
00:43:49,239 --> 00:43:51,920
Speaker 1: we're having a cocktail. It sure does. So I'm raising

801
00:43:51,920 --> 00:43:55,719
Speaker 1: my glass to you, Brenna. You're actually You're just absolutely

802
00:43:55,719 --> 00:43:59,840
Speaker 1: one of my most treasured people. I'm so thankful for

803
00:43:59,880 --> 00:44:03,399
Speaker 1: you on a daily basis. Loves you. Here's to you more.

804
00:44:03,440 --> 00:44:06,799
Speaker 1: What would I do without you? Clink Kelly, thank you

805
00:44:06,840 --> 00:44:10,840
Speaker 1: so much for asking me to host while you're away.

806
00:44:10,880 --> 00:44:13,280
Speaker 1: I'm so glad that you're taking some time for yourself

807
00:44:13,480 --> 00:44:15,560
Speaker 1: and I'm encouraged by that. And I need to look

808
00:44:15,560 --> 00:44:17,080
Speaker 1: at my own life and figure out where I need

809
00:44:17,120 --> 00:44:20,040
Speaker 1: to do the same. Um, I want um to give

810
00:44:20,040 --> 00:44:22,759
Speaker 1: you guys the opportunity to follow Brenna on socials. So, Brenna,

811
00:44:22,800 --> 00:44:24,640
Speaker 1: will you tell us where the gang can follow you

812
00:44:24,640 --> 00:44:28,880
Speaker 1: if they interested in those tinctures. I am at Brenna

813
00:44:29,239 --> 00:44:32,239
Speaker 1: m Perkins on the Graham and the Twitter, even though

814
00:44:32,280 --> 00:44:33,719
Speaker 1: I don't use it, So I just find me on

815
00:44:33,760 --> 00:44:35,840
Speaker 1: the Gram if you want. That's right, I posted a

816
00:44:35,840 --> 00:44:38,160
Speaker 1: lot of dog content. We're here, we love it, that's

817
00:44:38,160 --> 00:44:39,920
Speaker 1: where here, that's why we come, that's when we come

818
00:44:39,960 --> 00:44:42,200
Speaker 1: to the Gram. And of course you all can follow

819
00:44:42,200 --> 00:44:45,360
Speaker 1: me at Kelly Bannon um in all the places. And

820
00:44:45,600 --> 00:44:48,279
Speaker 1: I'm so thankful that you spent this time with us,

821
00:44:49,239 --> 00:44:52,200
Speaker 1: and um, yeah, it was just it was just what

822
00:44:52,320 --> 00:44:54,399
Speaker 1: a treat, fun to try something new, fun to put

823
00:44:54,400 --> 00:44:58,400
Speaker 1: my podcasting headphones back on, and of course wishing Kelly

824
00:44:58,480 --> 00:45:00,799
Speaker 1: all the best. Can't wait to to see her back

825
00:45:00,840 --> 00:45:01,640
Speaker 1: after her wrist