1 00:00:06,790 --> 00:00:10,690 Speaker 1: Amy Robach and TJ Holmes present Killer Thriller with your host, 2 00:00:10,869 --> 00:00:15,360 Speaker 1: Elisa Donovan. Hey, everybody. 3 00:00:15,520 --> 00:00:19,160 Speaker 2: Elisa Donovan here from Killer Thriller, joined by my bestie, 4 00:00:19,200 --> 00:00:21,480 Speaker 2: Jen Fessler from Killer Thriller Docu. 5 00:00:21,540 --> 00:00:23,480 Speaker 3: Hi, Jen. Hi, bestie. 6 00:00:23,820 --> 00:00:24,880 Speaker 1: We got a lot to say. 7 00:00:24,900 --> 00:00:29,270 Speaker 2: Yes. So we both just watched You Can See Everything, 8 00:00:29,770 --> 00:00:35,310 Speaker 2: Nathan Fielder's wildly bizarre new documentary about convicted Theranos founder 9 00:00:35,470 --> 00:00:39,470 Speaker 2: Elizabeth Holmes. Fielder moves into her home before she goes 10 00:00:39,510 --> 00:00:43,150 Speaker 2: to prison, and what unfolds is simply unbelievable. 11 00:00:44,130 --> 00:00:46,190 Speaker 1: Her partner wants a cut of the profits. 12 00:00:46,390 --> 00:00:50,300 Speaker 2: Amanda Seyfried shows up, and there's even a naked shower scene, 13 00:00:50,409 --> 00:00:55,160 Speaker 2: which was so ridiculously gratuitous, but I won't go there now. 14 00:00:56,280 --> 00:00:58,560 Speaker 1: But the biggest question is whether. 15 00:00:58,320 --> 00:01:04,470 Speaker 2: Holmes is a master manipulator or actually believing her own lies. Jen, 16 00:01:04,730 --> 00:01:07,230 Speaker 2: this movie is getting incredible reviews. 17 00:01:07,650 --> 00:01:09,130 Speaker 3: Yeah. 18 00:01:09,490 --> 00:01:10,230 Speaker 1: What did you think? 19 00:01:10,830 --> 00:01:14,390 Speaker 3: So, first of all, when I first heard about it, 20 00:01:14,430 --> 00:01:19,030 Speaker 3: I wasn't necessarily that excited to see it. I thought 21 00:01:19,060 --> 00:01:21,840 Speaker 3: it was another Elizabeth Holmes story. And then I started 22 00:01:21,900 --> 00:01:24,980 Speaker 3: reading what it actually was and about the reviews of 23 00:01:25,060 --> 00:01:27,940 Speaker 3: it and that it's probably going to be up for 24 00:01:27,980 --> 00:01:32,340 Speaker 3: an Academy Award. It's a documentary. And then my son 25 00:01:32,360 --> 00:01:35,670 Speaker 3: started telling me about it. Nathan Fielder. I guess my 26 00:01:35,709 --> 00:01:38,880 Speaker 3: son's a big fan. He's a funny guy. I guess 27 00:01:38,920 --> 00:01:41,479 Speaker 3: he's a comic also? Yes. Oh, no, no, no. 28 00:01:41,640 --> 00:01:44,360 Speaker 2: So the thing that really kills me about this to 29 00:01:44,400 --> 00:01:49,910 Speaker 2: start is they're so self-important, meaning Elizabeth Holmes and Billy Evans, 30 00:01:50,170 --> 00:01:52,870 Speaker 2: and they're so superior and they think they're so much 31 00:01:52,970 --> 00:01:56,410 Speaker 2: smarter than everyone. And they thought, let me get a 32 00:01:56,510 --> 00:02:00,410 Speaker 2: guy who doesn't know anything about what I do And 33 00:02:00,470 --> 00:02:03,230 Speaker 2: he is going to listen to everything I say. And 34 00:02:03,290 --> 00:02:06,270 Speaker 2: it just unfolds so beautifully. 35 00:02:06,310 --> 00:02:08,810 Speaker 3: Well, he called it early on. Yes. I mean, this 36 00:02:08,870 --> 00:02:11,850 Speaker 3: guy is a master. I think he's probably a master 37 00:02:11,870 --> 00:02:14,290 Speaker 3: of a lot of stuff. But I had never really 38 00:02:14,430 --> 00:02:18,830 Speaker 3: seen a film like this. Even just the cinematography of it, 39 00:02:18,870 --> 00:02:21,989 Speaker 3: the close-ups, the faces. And you guys, if you haven't 40 00:02:22,030 --> 00:02:24,780 Speaker 3: seen it, then we're probably going to ruin it for you. But, 41 00:02:24,880 --> 00:02:26,919 Speaker 3: I mean, I don't know how to do this without 42 00:02:27,000 --> 00:02:28,500 Speaker 3: talking spoilers. Yes. 43 00:02:28,639 --> 00:02:31,619 Speaker 2: Well, first of all, so I saw this movie in 44 00:02:31,680 --> 00:02:35,419 Speaker 2: San Francisco. So, like, the belly of the beast, so 45 00:02:35,460 --> 00:02:35,860 Speaker 2: to speak. 46 00:02:36,300 --> 00:02:37,940 Speaker 3: They were San Diego. They were Del Mar. 47 00:02:38,040 --> 00:02:40,660 Speaker 2: But the whole thing is the tech. I mean, Theranos 48 00:02:40,680 --> 00:02:43,820 Speaker 2: was birthed in Silicon Valley. Like, that's where it all happened. 49 00:02:43,880 --> 00:02:46,880 Speaker 2: They moved there to get away from this. And Billy Evans, 50 00:02:47,080 --> 00:02:50,660 Speaker 2: when they met, lived about four blocks from me. So 51 00:02:50,690 --> 00:02:53,350 Speaker 2: this is all very, I didn't know him at all, 52 00:02:53,450 --> 00:02:55,370 Speaker 2: but this is very. 53 00:02:57,169 --> 00:02:57,530 Speaker 3: Close. 54 00:02:58,210 --> 00:03:02,210 Speaker 2: And people were laughing out loud to the point where 55 00:03:02,330 --> 00:03:04,030 Speaker 2: you couldn't hear anything. 56 00:03:04,190 --> 00:03:08,290 Speaker 1: And people were like yelling at the screen. It was unreal. 57 00:03:08,590 --> 00:03:10,510 Speaker 3: That was what I thought was so- Was it that 58 00:03:10,550 --> 00:03:13,810 Speaker 3: way in where you saw it? We were laughing out loud. 59 00:03:13,910 --> 00:03:16,290 Speaker 3: My husband and I were laughing out loud. And you 60 00:03:16,330 --> 00:03:19,790 Speaker 3: don't expect to go into- An Elizabeth Holmes documentary. 61 00:03:19,870 --> 00:03:20,410 Speaker 1: A documentary. 62 00:03:20,470 --> 00:03:23,680 Speaker 3: She's away. She got over 11 years. She had babies. 63 00:03:23,740 --> 00:03:26,859 Speaker 3: What she did was so horrific. And you don't expect that. 64 00:03:26,919 --> 00:03:31,520 Speaker 3: But I think that through Nathan Fielder, you feel what 65 00:03:31,560 --> 00:03:35,050 Speaker 3: he's feeling. Yes. I don't know how he did it. 66 00:03:35,160 --> 00:03:38,730 Speaker 3: He's a master, clearly. But the close-ups, the faces, his 67 00:03:38,810 --> 00:03:43,480 Speaker 3: reactions were my reactions. She would say these outrageous things. things. 68 00:03:43,520 --> 00:03:46,380 Speaker 3: Like I've never told a lie. Right. And he would 69 00:03:46,870 --> 00:03:50,080 Speaker 3: look at her like, stop it. Just stop it. Stop it. 70 00:03:50,410 --> 00:03:51,630 Speaker 3: I just wouldn't get into it. 71 00:03:52,010 --> 00:03:55,110 Speaker 2: Because the best thing is what these people do is 72 00:03:55,190 --> 00:04:00,420 Speaker 2: they are masters of manipulating language. Also like creating a 73 00:04:00,460 --> 00:04:06,740 Speaker 2: catchphrase or a term that sounds really super smart and 74 00:04:07,810 --> 00:04:10,910 Speaker 2: What he's so great at doing is they would say 75 00:04:11,630 --> 00:04:14,390 Speaker 2: two paragraphs of something, and then he would just look 76 00:04:14,430 --> 00:04:19,130 Speaker 2: at her and say, so what you're saying is da-da-da-da-da. 77 00:04:19,230 --> 00:04:24,210 Speaker 2: And she would go, oh, well. And then she would 78 00:04:24,240 --> 00:04:26,480 Speaker 2: have to be faced with what she just said, which 79 00:04:26,600 --> 00:04:27,719 Speaker 2: didn't make any sense. 80 00:04:28,020 --> 00:04:30,660 Speaker 3: If you didn't know better, if you weren't smart enough, 81 00:04:31,650 --> 00:04:34,730 Speaker 3: she would have pulled it off. Like I think for you, 82 00:04:34,790 --> 00:04:39,290 Speaker 3: maybe for me watching it. And again, like now that 83 00:04:39,310 --> 00:04:42,490 Speaker 3: I've watched the entire thing, I think that I might 84 00:04:42,529 --> 00:04:45,240 Speaker 3: have been able to have been manipulated by Elizabeth Holmes. 85 00:04:45,740 --> 00:04:48,240 Speaker 1: With her like laser beam eyes. 86 00:04:48,600 --> 00:04:50,900 Speaker 2: He says to her at one point when she's talking 87 00:04:50,940 --> 00:04:54,610 Speaker 2: about flirting with someone and trying to, you know, get 88 00:04:54,670 --> 00:04:55,469 Speaker 2: someone's attention. 89 00:04:55,990 --> 00:04:58,750 Speaker 1: He's like, she says like, I really. 90 00:04:58,510 --> 00:05:00,430 Speaker 2: Just stared him down and looked at me and then 91 00:05:00,790 --> 00:05:02,850 Speaker 2: she's staring at him in the same way. And he's like, 92 00:05:03,210 --> 00:05:05,880 Speaker 2: so when you're flirting with someone, you're staring them in 93 00:05:06,040 --> 00:05:06,480 Speaker 2: the eye. 94 00:05:06,980 --> 00:05:09,279 Speaker 1: It's so incredible. 95 00:05:09,420 --> 00:05:11,060 Speaker 3: But at least I think he fell for it too 96 00:05:11,080 --> 00:05:12,779 Speaker 3: a little bit. I mean, we talked about that. 97 00:05:12,800 --> 00:05:14,080 Speaker 1: So do you, that's what you think? 98 00:05:14,100 --> 00:05:17,039 Speaker 3: Well, hold on. So first of all, I, this is 99 00:05:17,100 --> 00:05:19,040 Speaker 3: not the kind of film you guys that you go 100 00:05:19,160 --> 00:05:22,380 Speaker 3: into and And then you move on, right? Like it's 101 00:05:22,480 --> 00:05:26,960 Speaker 3: been lodged in my brain now since I saw it 102 00:05:27,400 --> 00:05:30,320 Speaker 3: going on how long ago? I don't know, 48 hours ago. 103 00:05:30,720 --> 00:05:34,910 Speaker 3: And so I have been on a wave, right? Like 104 00:05:35,029 --> 00:05:36,870 Speaker 3: I think this, I feel this, I think this, I 105 00:05:36,910 --> 00:05:40,070 Speaker 3: feel this. And then we talked about, because there's a 106 00:05:40,070 --> 00:05:42,270 Speaker 3: New York Times article that was. 107 00:05:42,190 --> 00:05:46,090 Speaker 1: Written by the guy who uncovered, yes. 108 00:05:46,890 --> 00:05:50,270 Speaker 3: Bad blood. He uncovered the whole, his whole scandal. And 109 00:05:50,310 --> 00:05:52,690 Speaker 3: then I read what he had to say about the film. 110 00:05:53,589 --> 00:05:58,510 Speaker 3: And then I felt changed. My feelings changed again. You know, it's, it's, 111 00:05:58,980 --> 00:06:03,400 Speaker 3: it is so complicated because looking into Elizabeth Holmes eyes, 112 00:06:03,700 --> 00:06:07,760 Speaker 3: I went from feeling like badly for this person who 113 00:06:07,820 --> 00:06:13,020 Speaker 3: just seemed like, honestly, like maybe she is neurodivergent potentially. 114 00:06:13,100 --> 00:06:15,380 Speaker 3: Maybe she is on the spectrum. Maybe she doesn't understand 115 00:06:15,420 --> 00:06:18,400 Speaker 3: that she's lying. Like I got wrapped up in that. 116 00:06:19,000 --> 00:06:22,570 Speaker 3: And then by the end, and then after reading the article, 117 00:06:22,610 --> 00:06:24,169 Speaker 3: I'm like, this is not me. 118 00:06:24,529 --> 00:06:27,609 Speaker 2: From the get-go, the two of them, I felt like 119 00:06:27,850 --> 00:06:33,750 Speaker 2: there is this faux sincerity that is totally practiced and orchestrated. 120 00:06:34,230 --> 00:06:36,469 Speaker 2: It's like they both read the books on how to 121 00:06:36,589 --> 00:06:39,470 Speaker 2: act like a human being with feelings. They are both 122 00:06:39,890 --> 00:06:42,670 Speaker 2: nefarious as far as I am concerned. And she found 123 00:06:42,710 --> 00:06:46,070 Speaker 2: him when she was for all intents and purposes, destitute 124 00:06:46,150 --> 00:06:49,330 Speaker 2: and an outcast because she had already been indicted. And 125 00:06:49,529 --> 00:06:52,060 Speaker 2: he's got a lot of money. So she Jedi mind 126 00:06:52,100 --> 00:06:57,300 Speaker 2: tricks him. And then he is this like elitist, privileged 127 00:06:57,360 --> 00:07:00,979 Speaker 2: guy who doesn't really seem to have a job, but 128 00:07:01,020 --> 00:07:03,460 Speaker 2: has a lot of money. And it's like they were 129 00:07:03,480 --> 00:07:07,160 Speaker 2: the perfect match. So they both manipulated each other is 130 00:07:07,200 --> 00:07:07,440 Speaker 2: what I feel. 131 00:07:07,460 --> 00:07:09,570 Speaker 3: When they described their first meeting, right? It was on 132 00:07:09,610 --> 00:07:13,210 Speaker 3: a beach and that he had no idea who she was. 133 00:07:14,520 --> 00:07:16,880 Speaker 3: And that he had no idea who she was, right, 134 00:07:17,020 --> 00:07:20,400 Speaker 3: for a considerable amount of time. I don't remember what 135 00:07:20,430 --> 00:07:20,670 Speaker 3: he told me. 136 00:07:20,670 --> 00:07:22,090 Speaker 1: He says an hour, I think. 137 00:07:22,670 --> 00:07:23,690 Speaker 3: I didn't believe that. 138 00:07:23,850 --> 00:07:24,790 Speaker 1: Of course not. 139 00:07:24,810 --> 00:07:28,090 Speaker 3: The thing is, there is one thing about Elizabeth Holmes 140 00:07:28,170 --> 00:07:30,370 Speaker 3: is that, forget what she looks like, which I think 141 00:07:30,430 --> 00:07:35,620 Speaker 3: is recognizable, those big, beautiful blue eyes. But also her voice, right? Yes. 142 00:07:35,640 --> 00:07:38,510 Speaker 3: That is something that you recognize. I would recognize it. 143 00:07:39,230 --> 00:07:43,160 Speaker 3: In a crowd of hundreds upon hundreds. You just can't. 144 00:07:43,180 --> 00:07:46,340 Speaker 3: She was notorious for it, known for it. So that part. 145 00:07:46,740 --> 00:07:49,400 Speaker 2: The reality is that is a big fat lie. He's 146 00:07:49,460 --> 00:07:52,640 Speaker 2: completely full of it. He at least admits that he lies. 147 00:07:53,220 --> 00:07:55,260 Speaker 3: Yes, yes, yes, yes. 148 00:07:55,560 --> 00:07:57,870 Speaker 1: So this is the other thing that I thought was fascinating. 149 00:07:59,050 --> 00:08:01,570 Speaker 2: In poker, when they talk about you have a tell, 150 00:08:01,850 --> 00:08:03,450 Speaker 2: somebody does something that. 151 00:08:03,410 --> 00:08:05,110 Speaker 1: Is a tell that they're bluffing. 152 00:08:06,090 --> 00:08:09,930 Speaker 2: As the film went on, because Billy has his– this 153 00:08:09,990 --> 00:08:14,770 Speaker 2: is like from his manosphere workout nonsense to like he 154 00:08:14,830 --> 00:08:19,340 Speaker 2: has this thing where he's putting on this persona as 155 00:08:19,360 --> 00:08:22,560 Speaker 2: a guy who's really in touch with femininity. 156 00:08:22,580 --> 00:08:22,650 Speaker 3: Yes. 157 00:08:23,100 --> 00:08:26,540 Speaker 2: And he really cares about his partner. And he knows 158 00:08:26,640 --> 00:08:31,670 Speaker 2: all these– and then he– systematically starts shutting down any conversation, 159 00:08:31,910 --> 00:08:34,150 Speaker 2: any question that starts to get difficult. 160 00:08:34,610 --> 00:08:37,390 Speaker 1: And then he has this tell. 161 00:08:37,650 --> 00:08:40,319 Speaker 2: He starts in the beginning where he like sniffs in 162 00:08:40,360 --> 00:08:41,620 Speaker 2: the middle of a conversation. 163 00:08:41,940 --> 00:08:44,280 Speaker 3: Yes, I asked Jeff if he was doing coke. 164 00:08:44,500 --> 00:08:46,819 Speaker 1: Yes, and then it starts to escalate when he can't 165 00:08:46,880 --> 00:08:47,380 Speaker 1: stop it. 166 00:08:47,679 --> 00:08:51,540 Speaker 3: Wait, Alisa, do you think that was coke? Was that cold? No. Well, maybe. 167 00:08:51,640 --> 00:08:54,920 Speaker 2: But I think it's because it's his tell. It's his 168 00:08:55,070 --> 00:08:57,750 Speaker 2: thing that he does when he is making shit up. 169 00:08:58,010 --> 00:09:01,290 Speaker 3: I wasn't sure. I literally said to my husband, what's 170 00:09:01,330 --> 00:09:06,270 Speaker 3: with the sniffing? Right. That is so interesting. Yeah, but 171 00:09:06,290 --> 00:09:09,630 Speaker 3: it was so, and it made him look unsure of himself. Yes. 172 00:09:09,670 --> 00:09:12,970 Speaker 3: It made him, you're right, it was tell. I absolutely, 173 00:09:13,690 --> 00:09:19,000 Speaker 3: absolutely can see that. Yeah. But, you know, at the beginning. 174 00:09:20,100 --> 00:09:22,420 Speaker 3: the way they were with each other until, so he 175 00:09:22,440 --> 00:09:24,400 Speaker 3: started to freak me out. It was the egg beating, 176 00:09:24,679 --> 00:09:27,350 Speaker 3: but all that's what started. That's what started. 177 00:09:27,530 --> 00:09:27,829 Speaker 1: Yes. 178 00:09:28,450 --> 00:09:30,610 Speaker 3: That was what made my, my, the hairs of my 179 00:09:31,450 --> 00:09:32,850 Speaker 3: neck stand up on it, whatever. 180 00:09:32,929 --> 00:09:36,990 Speaker 2: But like, wait, because you felt like he was controlling 181 00:09:37,050 --> 00:09:37,870 Speaker 2: her or what? 182 00:09:37,890 --> 00:09:38,170 Speaker 3: Yes. 183 00:09:38,330 --> 00:09:38,490 Speaker 1: Yeah. 184 00:09:38,550 --> 00:09:41,310 Speaker 3: Yes. I thought that like he couldn't help himself. She 185 00:09:41,330 --> 00:09:45,290 Speaker 3: was stirring those eggs and he couldn't help himself, even 186 00:09:45,340 --> 00:09:48,000 Speaker 3: though he, I felt like you're too smart not to 187 00:09:48,080 --> 00:09:51,550 Speaker 3: realize that this is going to look like a douchebag move. 188 00:09:51,910 --> 00:09:54,800 Speaker 2: But then she I felt like that moment in that 189 00:09:54,880 --> 00:09:58,410 Speaker 2: scene was so telling about the two of them and 190 00:09:58,429 --> 00:10:03,220 Speaker 2: their dynamic because she in that moment, realizes she's just 191 00:10:03,280 --> 00:10:06,640 Speaker 2: as manipulative as he is. She's going, oh, I need 192 00:10:06,679 --> 00:10:10,200 Speaker 2: to now be subservient and let him do this and 193 00:10:10,240 --> 00:10:13,280 Speaker 2: then say, oh, and then turn it into, I'm a 194 00:10:13,500 --> 00:10:16,170 Speaker 2: weirdo who doesn't know how to mix eggs and my 195 00:10:16,370 --> 00:10:19,110 Speaker 2: sweetheart always will help me to mix my. 196 00:10:19,090 --> 00:10:21,630 Speaker 3: Eggs and You think she was even playing there on 197 00:10:21,670 --> 00:10:25,699 Speaker 3: the whole? Yes. Yes. Stop. Yes. The thing is, I 198 00:10:25,740 --> 00:10:27,439 Speaker 3: don't know if this is, we have to look back 199 00:10:27,460 --> 00:10:30,380 Speaker 3: at all of our time together, Elisa, but maybe I 200 00:10:30,440 --> 00:10:34,890 Speaker 3: am just too freaking gullible because at the beginning of it, 201 00:10:35,000 --> 00:10:37,329 Speaker 3: not throughout it, when she would cry. And then after 202 00:10:37,350 --> 00:10:40,239 Speaker 3: a while, I realized that the tears were performative. She 203 00:10:40,260 --> 00:10:43,400 Speaker 3: would have those big teardrops rolling out of her eyes. 204 00:10:43,660 --> 00:10:44,760 Speaker 3: And I felt something. 205 00:10:44,980 --> 00:10:46,480 Speaker 1: But let me ask you this, Jen. 206 00:10:46,600 --> 00:10:47,219 Speaker 3: Especially with the babies. 207 00:10:47,260 --> 00:10:49,790 Speaker 1: If you were going to prison in 30 days. 208 00:10:49,809 --> 00:10:51,150 Speaker 3: I would be crying. 209 00:10:51,230 --> 00:10:53,750 Speaker 2: And you knew you were guilty. And you knew you'd 210 00:10:53,790 --> 00:10:57,610 Speaker 2: be crying. So these tears, I'm sorry. It's like a 211 00:10:57,670 --> 00:11:00,650 Speaker 2: teenager when you get caught for something. You know how 212 00:11:00,670 --> 00:11:03,190 Speaker 2: many times I cried when I got caught like smoking 213 00:11:03,250 --> 00:11:04,829 Speaker 2: in my parents' house? 214 00:11:04,890 --> 00:11:07,260 Speaker 3: You know what I mean? But also, it was the 215 00:11:07,320 --> 00:11:11,060 Speaker 3: babies of it, I think, also. That was hard. That 216 00:11:11,100 --> 00:11:11,750 Speaker 3: was really hard. 217 00:11:11,800 --> 00:11:12,760 Speaker 1: That was really hard. 218 00:11:12,990 --> 00:11:13,250 Speaker 3: Yeah. 219 00:11:13,420 --> 00:11:15,809 Speaker 1: But I also, the first time, and then it got 220 00:11:15,850 --> 00:11:17,830 Speaker 1: a little better, but the first time they show her 221 00:11:17,870 --> 00:11:21,410 Speaker 1: with her child, and she's just like, when you tap 222 00:11:21,690 --> 00:11:23,609 Speaker 1: your baby's back, I was like, are you going to? 223 00:11:24,070 --> 00:11:26,750 Speaker 1: beat that baby. Like what's going on with that child? 224 00:11:26,790 --> 00:11:30,270 Speaker 1: Like that's not quite, let's be a little more gentle. 225 00:11:30,510 --> 00:11:31,490 Speaker 1: I was like, what is. 226 00:11:31,490 --> 00:11:32,010 Speaker 2: Happening right now? 227 00:11:32,030 --> 00:11:33,290 Speaker 3: I just thought that when they had the baby in 228 00:11:33,309 --> 00:11:33,809 Speaker 3: the rocker. 229 00:11:34,130 --> 00:11:36,490 Speaker 1: When she was hitting it with her foot? I was like, 230 00:11:36,830 --> 00:11:39,230 Speaker 1: that baby's going to fly across the room. 231 00:11:39,250 --> 00:11:42,890 Speaker 3: Oh my God. Oh my God. So, okay. There's just, 232 00:11:43,050 --> 00:11:47,600 Speaker 3: there's just so much to talk about. Okay. So there 233 00:11:47,620 --> 00:11:50,240 Speaker 3: were parts of it that I thought were the most telling. Listen, 234 00:11:50,460 --> 00:11:53,480 Speaker 3: every part of it was fascinating. But there were parts 235 00:11:53,520 --> 00:11:58,160 Speaker 3: of it that I thought, okay, this is now making sense. 236 00:11:58,340 --> 00:12:00,400 Speaker 3: And you could see what a master manipulator she is. 237 00:12:00,500 --> 00:12:03,610 Speaker 3: And the part that got me, I think for most people, 238 00:12:03,650 --> 00:12:04,809 Speaker 3: was the who's on first. 239 00:12:05,210 --> 00:12:05,829 Speaker 1: Oh my God. 240 00:12:06,150 --> 00:12:10,230 Speaker 3: Okay. There's this part in the film where Nathan Fielder says, 241 00:12:10,330 --> 00:12:13,929 Speaker 3: you remind me of Abbott and Costello and one of 242 00:12:13,970 --> 00:12:16,360 Speaker 3: these iconic skits that they used to do called who's 243 00:12:16,429 --> 00:12:16,910 Speaker 3: on first. 244 00:12:17,190 --> 00:12:19,810 Speaker 2: And it's totally fair that you wouldn't know because she's younger. 245 00:12:19,970 --> 00:12:21,910 Speaker 2: It's totally fair that she wouldn't know who Abbott and 246 00:12:21,929 --> 00:12:22,790 Speaker 2: Costello are. 247 00:12:23,309 --> 00:12:28,270 Speaker 3: Agreed. But the skit is iconic. Again, listeners, probably if 248 00:12:28,290 --> 00:12:32,349 Speaker 3: you watched it, you already saw it. But it is classic. 249 00:12:32,370 --> 00:12:35,290 Speaker 3: So anybody that watches this skit, you can pull it 250 00:12:35,330 --> 00:12:39,120 Speaker 3: up anywhere, I think it is very funny because it's 251 00:12:39,960 --> 00:12:42,160 Speaker 3: understandable what is going on here, right? It's like a 252 00:12:42,220 --> 00:12:45,619 Speaker 3: play on words and a play on... We can't, I 253 00:12:45,700 --> 00:12:48,470 Speaker 3: can't understand what you are saying, but it just, and 254 00:12:48,500 --> 00:12:50,550 Speaker 3: the way that it's done is hilarious, right? 255 00:12:50,570 --> 00:12:50,850 Speaker 1: Yes. 256 00:12:51,290 --> 00:12:53,290 Speaker 3: And so without, I guess we don't really get into 257 00:12:53,670 --> 00:12:56,590 Speaker 3: the actual skit, but the thing is she claims not 258 00:12:56,650 --> 00:12:58,550 Speaker 3: to have understood the joke. 259 00:12:59,110 --> 00:13:01,240 Speaker 1: Even when he repeats it to her. 260 00:13:01,630 --> 00:13:04,440 Speaker 3: Even when she was laughing, Elizabeth Holmes is a very 261 00:13:04,660 --> 00:13:07,650 Speaker 3: smart woman and there's no way she didn't get it. 262 00:13:07,920 --> 00:13:11,040 Speaker 3: But that, so that part for me, she pretended not 263 00:13:11,080 --> 00:13:13,920 Speaker 3: to get this joke. You guys, the joke of the skit, 264 00:13:14,630 --> 00:13:17,770 Speaker 3: Because like, as Lisa was saying, I think she wanted 265 00:13:17,890 --> 00:13:21,750 Speaker 3: to paint this picture. I'm neurodivergent. I keep saying that. 266 00:13:21,790 --> 00:13:22,390 Speaker 3: What does that mean? 267 00:13:22,690 --> 00:13:25,670 Speaker 1: Essentially, it means that you are a different learner, that you, 268 00:13:26,410 --> 00:13:27,380 Speaker 1: your brain. 269 00:13:27,559 --> 00:13:27,819 Speaker 3: Yes. 270 00:13:27,920 --> 00:13:32,000 Speaker 2: Essentially that she could be on the spectrum, but essentially 271 00:13:32,020 --> 00:13:33,820 Speaker 2: that her brain works differently. 272 00:13:33,860 --> 00:13:37,939 Speaker 1: She's a different learner. So things might impact, have a 273 00:13:37,960 --> 00:13:38,540 Speaker 1: different impact. 274 00:13:38,600 --> 00:13:40,990 Speaker 3: Yes. But I didn't believe it when she said she 275 00:13:41,000 --> 00:13:43,460 Speaker 3: didn't get the joke. course I didn't believe it. And 276 00:13:43,480 --> 00:13:46,580 Speaker 3: for me, that was, that was the aha moment. That 277 00:13:46,620 --> 00:13:48,939 Speaker 3: was the part where I felt I was being manipulated. 278 00:13:48,960 --> 00:13:51,340 Speaker 3: You know what I mean? Like I was, I was 279 00:13:51,420 --> 00:13:57,059 Speaker 3: falling prey to her and her antics. Yep. So that 280 00:13:57,120 --> 00:14:00,650 Speaker 3: was so eyeopening for me because stop it. Just stop it. 281 00:14:00,660 --> 00:14:03,260 Speaker 3: You don't get it. Just stop it. The guy's name 282 00:14:03,370 --> 00:14:06,730 Speaker 3: is who? Okay. Exactly. Stop your bullshit. 283 00:14:07,190 --> 00:14:08,090 Speaker 1: Stop your bullshit. 284 00:14:08,710 --> 00:14:08,990 Speaker 3: Right. 285 00:14:10,170 --> 00:14:14,770 Speaker 2: But what about also There's one scene where they slowly, 286 00:14:14,790 --> 00:14:18,680 Speaker 2: so we should say it starts that they had invited 287 00:14:18,740 --> 00:14:20,100 Speaker 2: Nathan Fielder to live with them. 288 00:14:20,680 --> 00:14:23,240 Speaker 1: He initially said, no, I'll just come. 289 00:14:23,320 --> 00:14:26,280 Speaker 2: And shoot during the day. And then he gets in 290 00:14:26,320 --> 00:14:28,300 Speaker 2: there for a few days and he's like, I. 291 00:14:28,250 --> 00:14:31,390 Speaker 1: Think I might want to get a little bit more 292 00:14:31,470 --> 00:14:32,210 Speaker 1: involved here. 293 00:14:32,630 --> 00:14:36,910 Speaker 2: So he does move into the house and, um, Which 294 00:14:37,290 --> 00:14:39,510 Speaker 2: has many hilarious moments in and of itself. 295 00:14:39,570 --> 00:14:40,530 Speaker 1: Like, no mattress. 296 00:14:40,650 --> 00:14:40,850 Speaker 3: No. 297 00:14:40,950 --> 00:14:45,010 Speaker 1: It just shows that, like, they don't, like, comfort. 298 00:14:45,250 --> 00:14:47,490 Speaker 3: The way that he went to bed with no covers. 299 00:14:47,770 --> 00:14:48,050 Speaker 1: Yeah. 300 00:14:48,110 --> 00:14:50,190 Speaker 3: I mean, I can't. 301 00:14:50,210 --> 00:14:54,670 Speaker 1: But they zoom in on her parents who are there. 302 00:14:54,700 --> 00:14:54,790 Speaker 3: Right. 303 00:14:55,320 --> 00:14:58,600 Speaker 2: Who literally, as they start to talk about they're going 304 00:14:58,760 --> 00:15:01,000 Speaker 2: to do Theranos 2.0, basically. 305 00:15:01,020 --> 00:15:01,100 Speaker 3: Yeah. 306 00:15:01,820 --> 00:15:05,260 Speaker 2: And the camera, Elizabeth and Billy are yammering on and 307 00:15:05,360 --> 00:15:10,180 Speaker 2: on to each other about their genius idea and how 308 00:15:10,260 --> 00:15:13,710 Speaker 2: if it was, sidebar, if it worked perfectly the first time, 309 00:15:14,150 --> 00:15:16,050 Speaker 2: why do you need to change the technology now? 310 00:15:16,090 --> 00:15:17,730 Speaker 1: But that's a separate conversation. 311 00:15:17,870 --> 00:15:20,350 Speaker 3: But also, are you acting like you're insane or are 312 00:15:20,390 --> 00:15:22,010 Speaker 3: you actually insane? You think that people are going to 313 00:15:22,030 --> 00:15:23,190 Speaker 3: give you money for Theranos? 314 00:15:23,450 --> 00:15:26,140 Speaker 2: But this is like the fake it till you make 315 00:15:26,200 --> 00:15:31,160 Speaker 2: it thing about Silicon Valley. It's such BS that I can't. 316 00:15:31,200 --> 00:15:32,940 Speaker 2: And then we should also talk about the time, how 317 00:15:32,980 --> 00:15:36,310 Speaker 2: there were no women. But just a quick second about 318 00:15:36,370 --> 00:15:40,070 Speaker 2: her parents, where they zoom in on the parents, and 319 00:15:40,110 --> 00:15:43,330 Speaker 2: those two are like yammering. And you just see they're 320 00:15:43,370 --> 00:15:49,400 Speaker 2: like deer in headlights looking at these two like, oh, God, what. 321 00:15:49,280 --> 00:15:51,140 Speaker 1: Is going on? Here we go again. But then the 322 00:15:51,200 --> 00:15:53,460 Speaker 1: dad says, I trust Billy. 323 00:15:53,480 --> 00:15:54,620 Speaker 3: I didn't believe that. 324 00:15:55,030 --> 00:15:56,030 Speaker 1: I didn't believe it either. 325 00:15:56,490 --> 00:16:00,690 Speaker 3: There were so many parts of the parent interactions that 326 00:16:00,910 --> 00:16:04,120 Speaker 3: I was so spooked by. Now, I didn't know that 327 00:16:04,150 --> 00:16:05,220 Speaker 3: she was raped. Did you? 328 00:16:05,880 --> 00:16:08,100 Speaker 1: Yes. I knew that from the dropout. 329 00:16:08,340 --> 00:16:11,540 Speaker 3: Okay. And I'd seen the dropout. Maybe I just didn't remember. 330 00:16:11,580 --> 00:16:14,300 Speaker 3: I don't know. But anyway, so when the father said 331 00:16:14,520 --> 00:16:18,970 Speaker 3: everything changed when she was raped, and I thought that 332 00:16:19,010 --> 00:16:21,630 Speaker 3: Nathan sort of looked at him with a little bit 333 00:16:21,650 --> 00:16:24,450 Speaker 3: of like, shock in his eyes and then nothing happened 334 00:16:24,510 --> 00:16:24,820 Speaker 3: from it. 335 00:16:25,050 --> 00:16:25,590 Speaker 1: Right. 336 00:16:25,890 --> 00:16:30,130 Speaker 3: But Billy like cut in pretty quickly after that. Right. Yeah. 337 00:16:30,170 --> 00:16:32,130 Speaker 3: I thought that the father was going to go into 338 00:16:32,150 --> 00:16:34,090 Speaker 3: the ways in which she changed. 339 00:16:34,930 --> 00:16:35,050 Speaker 2: Yes. 340 00:16:35,070 --> 00:16:38,250 Speaker 3: Maybe give us some insight into how, you know, my 341 00:16:38,270 --> 00:16:43,630 Speaker 3: daughter changed and maybe went a little crazy, but nothing. 342 00:16:43,650 --> 00:16:44,790 Speaker 1: But they don't say anything. 343 00:16:45,170 --> 00:16:48,590 Speaker 3: Nothing. And Billy got in there pretty quickly anyway and 344 00:16:48,710 --> 00:16:52,250 Speaker 3: shut down the whole discussion of Nathan and her father. Right. 345 00:16:52,260 --> 00:16:54,250 Speaker 3: And was pretty adamant that it was over. And I 346 00:16:54,270 --> 00:16:56,650 Speaker 3: didn't understand what was he afraid of in that moment? 347 00:16:56,910 --> 00:16:57,860 Speaker 1: What was Billy afraid of? 348 00:16:58,690 --> 00:16:58,930 Speaker 3: Yes. 349 00:16:59,430 --> 00:17:01,970 Speaker 2: Because I think the dad was starting to talk about 350 00:17:02,670 --> 00:17:08,090 Speaker 2: just their relationship or like the way, the types. 351 00:17:07,630 --> 00:17:09,419 Speaker 1: Of relationships that she gets into. 352 00:17:09,500 --> 00:17:13,240 Speaker 2: Because he said, you know, asked about, is it a 353 00:17:13,260 --> 00:17:18,280 Speaker 2: mistake given her history to get involved romantically with a 354 00:17:18,300 --> 00:17:19,780 Speaker 2: business partner? Right. 355 00:17:20,440 --> 00:17:21,639 Speaker 1: And he was like, let's shut it. 356 00:17:21,800 --> 00:17:30,520 Speaker 2: Anytime Nathan Fielder gets into something that could even be 357 00:17:30,560 --> 00:17:33,600 Speaker 2: a little bit questionable for Billy, he just shuts it down. 358 00:17:34,000 --> 00:17:37,120 Speaker 2: So they go from saying, you can see everything, to, oh, no, 359 00:17:37,200 --> 00:17:39,109 Speaker 2: but not that. So now we have to go, oh, 360 00:17:39,210 --> 00:17:42,410 Speaker 2: now I have to have this conversation. Oh, you've got 361 00:17:42,450 --> 00:17:46,429 Speaker 2: a work call. Honey, you know that thing you have. 362 00:17:46,710 --> 00:17:52,880 Speaker 3: It's like they're doing— That was so— And I even got, honestly, Lisa, 363 00:17:52,910 --> 00:17:54,480 Speaker 3: this is how gullible I am. It always takes me 364 00:17:54,500 --> 00:17:57,780 Speaker 3: a minute. When she went into the other room to, 365 00:17:58,660 --> 00:18:00,260 Speaker 3: the kid wasn't even crying. I think the kid was 366 00:18:00,280 --> 00:18:02,199 Speaker 3: just playing. She all of a sudden gets up and 367 00:18:02,220 --> 00:18:04,920 Speaker 3: then he asks, and then, right. And then Billy wants money. 368 00:18:05,400 --> 00:18:08,959 Speaker 3: And even that, I wasn't sure that she knew for 369 00:18:08,980 --> 00:18:11,300 Speaker 3: sure that he was doing that. Now, you looking back 370 00:18:11,380 --> 00:18:13,090 Speaker 3: on it, I'm absolutely sure that they were both in 371 00:18:13,160 --> 00:18:15,450 Speaker 3: on it. I think that she's such a liar though. 372 00:18:15,510 --> 00:18:20,550 Speaker 3: When she said to Nathan in jail, Obviously, at that point, 373 00:18:20,670 --> 00:18:21,550 Speaker 3: it wasn't her. 374 00:18:21,670 --> 00:18:27,470 Speaker 1: Yes. Amanda Seyfried. Who is brilliant and genius beyond. 375 00:18:27,690 --> 00:18:32,670 Speaker 3: Beyond. Beyond. Yes. But when he said, did you know 376 00:18:32,730 --> 00:18:36,650 Speaker 3: that Billie asked for this money? And she said she 377 00:18:36,730 --> 00:18:39,609 Speaker 3: didn't know that. Did you believe it? 378 00:18:39,990 --> 00:18:41,149 Speaker 1: No, of course not. 379 00:18:41,290 --> 00:18:44,090 Speaker 2: Just like when on the phone he asks her, did 380 00:18:44,130 --> 00:18:47,630 Speaker 2: you know that I would be here? He orchestrates being 381 00:18:47,670 --> 00:18:49,730 Speaker 2: able to speak with her when she's in prison. 382 00:18:49,770 --> 00:18:49,970 Speaker 3: Right. 383 00:18:50,310 --> 00:18:53,590 Speaker 2: And he says, did you know I'd be here when 384 00:18:53,630 --> 00:18:57,300 Speaker 2: you called? And she said, I don't. 385 00:18:57,359 --> 00:19:06,180 Speaker 3: Think I knew. Like, what does that mean? It's so psychotic. So, okay. Amanda, 386 00:19:06,380 --> 00:19:09,230 Speaker 3: for a minute. I don't think anyone is. I saw something, 387 00:19:09,250 --> 00:19:11,869 Speaker 3: a clip of her yesterday on, I don't know what 388 00:19:11,890 --> 00:19:14,620 Speaker 3: it was, Instagram or doing an interview recently. And she 389 00:19:14,650 --> 00:19:18,479 Speaker 3: basically didn't, she was very mysterious throughout this interview about everything. 390 00:19:18,560 --> 00:19:20,020 Speaker 3: Like she didn't want to say anything about her life, 391 00:19:20,080 --> 00:19:22,609 Speaker 3: what she was doing and like. The person interviewing her 392 00:19:22,670 --> 00:19:25,210 Speaker 3: understood why it was like a private joke. Like she doesn't, 393 00:19:25,609 --> 00:19:27,290 Speaker 3: I don't know that she, I did not know she 394 00:19:27,330 --> 00:19:27,750 Speaker 3: was going to be. 395 00:19:27,770 --> 00:19:32,520 Speaker 2: No, this was a complete secret shock. And this is 396 00:19:32,600 --> 00:19:36,040 Speaker 2: why the film, I've never seen anything like it. It's 397 00:19:36,220 --> 00:19:40,500 Speaker 2: a documentary that becomes larger than life that then feels 398 00:19:40,560 --> 00:19:43,490 Speaker 2: like a narrative, but it's still very much a documentary. 399 00:19:44,030 --> 00:19:46,190 Speaker 1: It's one of the most compelling things I've ever seen. 400 00:19:46,830 --> 00:19:49,710 Speaker 3: So you guys listeners, if you don't know that, and 401 00:19:49,730 --> 00:19:52,830 Speaker 3: you probably, do if you're listening, but that Amanda actually 402 00:19:53,010 --> 00:19:57,609 Speaker 3: played Elizabeth Holmes, right? We know that. And so it 403 00:19:57,630 --> 00:19:59,669 Speaker 3: was a very bizarre thing. So she gets brought in 404 00:20:00,880 --> 00:20:06,270 Speaker 3: and she begins to, her and Nathan kind of team up. 405 00:20:07,070 --> 00:20:09,590 Speaker 3: And they're almost sort of trying to figure it all out, right? 406 00:20:09,830 --> 00:20:13,310 Speaker 3: And the aftermath of everything that's happened. And she steps 407 00:20:13,570 --> 00:20:16,520 Speaker 3: in for Elizabeth Holmes in the weirdest way. So she 408 00:20:16,560 --> 00:20:19,040 Speaker 3: actually puts on costume. I was like, Jeff, are they 409 00:20:19,080 --> 00:20:22,699 Speaker 3: making another movie? What is happening? But she does. So 410 00:20:22,740 --> 00:20:26,300 Speaker 3: she's a little, Elizabeth goes to jail. And now here's 411 00:20:26,320 --> 00:20:31,780 Speaker 3: Amanda playing Elizabeth. Because Nathan is feeding her this information. 412 00:20:31,820 --> 00:20:33,740 Speaker 3: This is what she said when I went to the jail. 413 00:20:33,760 --> 00:20:36,149 Speaker 1: Because he can't bring a camera into the. 414 00:20:37,310 --> 00:20:37,730 Speaker 3: prison. 415 00:20:38,070 --> 00:20:39,990 Speaker 1: So he makes all of his notes. 416 00:20:40,070 --> 00:20:46,320 Speaker 3: And they want to continue the documentary. And it is mind, mind, 417 00:20:46,859 --> 00:20:48,040 Speaker 3: mind blowing. 418 00:20:48,060 --> 00:20:53,010 Speaker 2: See, you even see Amanda feel compassion for her as 419 00:20:53,070 --> 00:20:55,490 Speaker 2: a woman. I felt like I was riding the same 420 00:20:55,770 --> 00:20:59,770 Speaker 2: journey that she was in this. And I love, you know, 421 00:20:59,869 --> 00:21:02,580 Speaker 2: she said, he says something, Nathan says something like, so 422 00:21:03,320 --> 00:21:05,379 Speaker 2: are you siding with her in this moment? 423 00:21:05,460 --> 00:21:06,860 Speaker 1: I'm paraphrasing. It's something like that. 424 00:21:06,880 --> 00:21:08,659 Speaker 2: And she said, of course, because no woman wants to 425 00:21:08,700 --> 00:21:11,460 Speaker 2: watch another woman and be manipulated by a man like that. 426 00:21:12,140 --> 00:21:14,920 Speaker 2: Like she just very matter of matter of factly stated 427 00:21:15,100 --> 00:21:18,929 Speaker 2: what I was feeling like, yes, Elizabeth home is. And, 428 00:21:19,140 --> 00:21:24,570 Speaker 2: but like they both, he is just so smarmy and 429 00:21:25,550 --> 00:21:27,610 Speaker 2: creepy and disgusting. 430 00:21:27,930 --> 00:21:29,909 Speaker 3: But I don't think I'm now looking at it. Cause 431 00:21:29,930 --> 00:21:33,520 Speaker 3: that's how I'm like, Well, feel the same. But also, 432 00:21:33,560 --> 00:21:36,140 Speaker 3: is she that stupid? I don't think she's that stupid. 433 00:21:36,540 --> 00:21:37,199 Speaker 1: No, she's not. 434 00:21:37,220 --> 00:21:39,800 Speaker 3: I don't know. That's the thing that's like, is she 435 00:21:39,840 --> 00:21:42,800 Speaker 3: that stupid that she's going to be taken by this guy? Right. 436 00:21:43,060 --> 00:21:43,660 Speaker 1: She's not. 437 00:21:43,820 --> 00:21:47,540 Speaker 3: And I'm like also giving him power of attorney. He's 438 00:21:47,560 --> 00:21:50,859 Speaker 3: not stupid. What is she trying to? And then she said, listen, 439 00:21:51,740 --> 00:21:53,740 Speaker 3: something is in her name. It's getting taken anyway. She 440 00:21:53,800 --> 00:21:58,050 Speaker 3: owes millions upon millions upon millions of dollars in restitution. Right. 441 00:21:58,170 --> 00:22:02,710 Speaker 3: I don't know. It's all so overwhelming. What I thought 442 00:22:02,770 --> 00:22:06,530 Speaker 3: was really interesting is when Nathan reads her something that 443 00:22:07,090 --> 00:22:11,230 Speaker 3: Elizabeth had said about how what Amanda Seyfried did, the 444 00:22:11,280 --> 00:22:13,399 Speaker 3: role that she played has made things so much worse 445 00:22:13,840 --> 00:22:16,680 Speaker 3: for her in jail, for Elizabeth in jail. And a 446 00:22:16,720 --> 00:22:18,680 Speaker 3: lot of it, and they watched the film together, right? 447 00:22:18,700 --> 00:22:19,699 Speaker 1: And they believe it's fact. 448 00:22:19,720 --> 00:22:22,880 Speaker 3: So Nathan and Elizabeth and Billy watched it together, right? 449 00:22:23,660 --> 00:22:27,450 Speaker 3: And you saw how upset Elizabeth was getting from the portrayal. 450 00:22:28,250 --> 00:22:30,590 Speaker 3: And there was stuff in it, of course, like Amanda said, 451 00:22:30,609 --> 00:22:33,459 Speaker 3: it was TV. There were parts of it that were 452 00:22:33,510 --> 00:22:36,250 Speaker 3: not true. There were parts of it, you know, obviously 453 00:22:36,410 --> 00:22:40,770 Speaker 3: that were made up. But Elizabeth was saying that it 454 00:22:40,810 --> 00:22:43,990 Speaker 3: has affected her in prison. People believe that she is 455 00:22:44,630 --> 00:22:47,050 Speaker 3: who Amanda played. Yeah. 456 00:22:47,470 --> 00:22:49,890 Speaker 1: Well, she's a convicted felon. 457 00:22:50,350 --> 00:22:52,860 Speaker 3: But you saw Amanda. I thought Amanda felt badly about that. 458 00:22:53,340 --> 00:22:55,940 Speaker 1: I think she did. I think she felt, you know, conflicted. 459 00:22:56,540 --> 00:22:59,700 Speaker 2: But also, again, I'll bring it back to if you 460 00:22:59,840 --> 00:23:05,689 Speaker 2: see if somebody is putting your nefarious behavior and your 461 00:23:05,790 --> 00:23:08,119 Speaker 2: lies right in front of you and you have to 462 00:23:08,170 --> 00:23:12,240 Speaker 2: watch it, that's why she was crying. She wasn't crying because, boo-hoo, 463 00:23:12,280 --> 00:23:13,960 Speaker 2: this person is making me look bad. 464 00:23:14,740 --> 00:23:16,710 Speaker 1: She's crying because she's faced with. 465 00:23:16,630 --> 00:23:33,719 Speaker 3: Her own lies. Did you think also, though, she was 466 00:23:33,760 --> 00:23:36,760 Speaker 3: crying because when they were watching it, they were watching 467 00:23:37,060 --> 00:23:42,180 Speaker 3: the part where she was with her partner, with the guy. Sonny. Sonny. 468 00:23:42,260 --> 00:23:42,640 Speaker 1: Awani. 469 00:23:42,660 --> 00:23:44,980 Speaker 3: So she was, right. And that scene that they watched 470 00:23:46,140 --> 00:23:50,790 Speaker 3: was really uncomfortable, icky. And that's when she started to 471 00:23:51,530 --> 00:23:53,090 Speaker 3: lose it a little bit. And I don't know. In 472 00:23:53,930 --> 00:23:57,389 Speaker 3: the end, I know she really was blaming Sonny for 473 00:23:57,430 --> 00:23:59,690 Speaker 3: how it all went down, right? And he's in prison, too. 474 00:24:00,109 --> 00:24:02,330 Speaker 3: I want to say for 13 years or something, I think. 475 00:24:02,640 --> 00:24:02,840 Speaker 1: Yeah. 476 00:24:03,220 --> 00:24:05,379 Speaker 3: So, so they both went away for it, but in 477 00:24:05,420 --> 00:24:08,770 Speaker 3: the end, almost as if she was taken advantage of 478 00:24:08,940 --> 00:24:15,530 Speaker 3: by this way older, powerful guy. And that, so watching 479 00:24:15,609 --> 00:24:18,389 Speaker 3: Amanda play that part of it is I think when 480 00:24:18,410 --> 00:24:22,090 Speaker 3: she started to really get emotional. Now, how much do you, 481 00:24:23,490 --> 00:24:26,930 Speaker 3: when you look at that, right. And, and this documentary 482 00:24:26,950 --> 00:24:29,910 Speaker 3: didn't really focus that much on Sonny, but in terms 483 00:24:29,970 --> 00:24:32,880 Speaker 3: of like the big picture, Do you think that she 484 00:24:33,240 --> 00:24:38,869 Speaker 3: was manipulated by and victim of Sonny? 485 00:24:39,310 --> 00:24:41,869 Speaker 1: To a certain degree, I do believe so, yes. To 486 00:24:41,910 --> 00:24:42,550 Speaker 1: a certain degree. 487 00:24:43,030 --> 00:24:47,450 Speaker 2: And I think that he saw in her this young 488 00:24:47,510 --> 00:24:52,930 Speaker 2: genius that he also was attracted to, but I think 489 00:24:52,970 --> 00:24:55,730 Speaker 2: he really was attracted to her mind as well and 490 00:24:55,869 --> 00:25:00,740 Speaker 2: saw how incredibly intelligent she is. And then he wanted 491 00:25:00,840 --> 00:25:04,140 Speaker 2: to be a part of that. He wanted to jump 492 00:25:04,260 --> 00:25:07,600 Speaker 2: on that bandwagon and could see that she was going 493 00:25:07,619 --> 00:25:09,070 Speaker 2: to do something that was great. 494 00:25:09,109 --> 00:25:10,629 Speaker 1: And then the two of them just. 495 00:25:11,950 --> 00:25:14,710 Speaker 2: I think we should also talk about at this time 496 00:25:15,150 --> 00:25:17,070 Speaker 2: in tech and in Silicon Valley. 497 00:25:17,230 --> 00:25:20,650 Speaker 1: They needed... There were no women. I mean, there still 498 00:25:20,710 --> 00:25:22,590 Speaker 1: aren't really. But at that moment. 499 00:25:23,410 --> 00:25:25,770 Speaker 2: they realized, oh, we have to do better because we're 500 00:25:25,790 --> 00:25:28,149 Speaker 2: starting to get some flack for this, that there are 501 00:25:28,210 --> 00:25:32,770 Speaker 2: no female founders and no women. So the fact that 502 00:25:32,910 --> 00:25:35,709 Speaker 2: she came along at this moment and then they just 503 00:25:35,730 --> 00:25:38,250 Speaker 2: started to put her on every magazine cover and put, 504 00:25:38,310 --> 00:25:41,389 Speaker 2: now I am not excusing the fact that they blatantly 505 00:25:41,450 --> 00:25:45,340 Speaker 2: lied about the ability of this technology and this machine. 506 00:25:45,540 --> 00:25:47,200 Speaker 1: It was a complete lie. 507 00:25:47,220 --> 00:25:50,600 Speaker 2: It was not there and it was not capable of 508 00:25:50,640 --> 00:25:53,750 Speaker 2: doing what they said it was. But she was given 509 00:25:53,869 --> 00:25:57,590 Speaker 2: all this extra attention because she was the only woman. 510 00:25:57,730 --> 00:26:00,369 Speaker 2: And she would wear the Steve Jobs. I met her 511 00:26:00,490 --> 00:26:05,070 Speaker 2: at Sheryl Sandberg's house in her black turtleneck, which I love. 512 00:26:05,109 --> 00:26:06,869 Speaker 2: Are you wearing your turtleneck in her honor today? 513 00:26:06,930 --> 00:26:09,550 Speaker 3: No. God, I wouldn't have worn it, actually. You shouldn't 514 00:26:09,590 --> 00:26:10,909 Speaker 3: have said that to me. Go take it off. 515 00:26:11,490 --> 00:26:15,200 Speaker 2: She would go around in a black turtleneck with a 516 00:26:15,260 --> 00:26:16,700 Speaker 2: voice like this. 517 00:26:17,140 --> 00:26:18,899 Speaker 1: And it was sort of right. I didn't know who 518 00:26:18,920 --> 00:26:19,240 Speaker 1: she was. 519 00:26:19,280 --> 00:26:22,110 Speaker 2: And my husband was you know, said, wow, I can't 520 00:26:22,150 --> 00:26:24,570 Speaker 2: believe that she's here. And I said, who? 521 00:26:24,850 --> 00:26:25,310 Speaker 3: Like, why? 522 00:26:25,350 --> 00:26:27,209 Speaker 2: And he said, it was right at the moment when 523 00:26:27,250 --> 00:26:30,240 Speaker 2: she was starting to get, I don't think she hadn't 524 00:26:30,260 --> 00:26:34,320 Speaker 2: been indicted yet, but it was, things were going awry. 525 00:26:34,340 --> 00:26:38,200 Speaker 2: And to that point, at that time, you know, she, 526 00:26:38,600 --> 00:26:42,670 Speaker 2: people want, I think women in particular wanted to believe her. 527 00:26:43,150 --> 00:26:44,530 Speaker 1: Like they wanted. 528 00:26:44,130 --> 00:26:47,510 Speaker 2: Her to succeed so that they were putting a lot 529 00:26:48,369 --> 00:26:52,700 Speaker 2: into her. And that part of it is what makes 530 00:26:52,760 --> 00:26:55,810 Speaker 2: me even more furious because I feel like. 531 00:26:55,830 --> 00:26:58,770 Speaker 3: You feel like she fucked us. Like you had us 532 00:26:58,830 --> 00:27:01,970 Speaker 3: all so excited for you. Yes. Yes. Well, the other 533 00:27:01,990 --> 00:27:03,930 Speaker 3: piece that I thought was interesting is that she said 534 00:27:04,010 --> 00:27:07,189 Speaker 3: she never wanted to be on TV. Like when they 535 00:27:07,210 --> 00:27:10,570 Speaker 3: were doing... So they were trying to create like an 536 00:27:10,690 --> 00:27:12,250 Speaker 3: AI version of her for when she left. 537 00:27:12,850 --> 00:27:14,609 Speaker 1: Can we talk about that after? 538 00:27:14,630 --> 00:27:17,010 Speaker 3: Yes, which was just so freaky. But they were doing that, 539 00:27:17,030 --> 00:27:19,389 Speaker 3: and she said she started to cry. She was so uncomfortable. 540 00:27:19,490 --> 00:27:23,350 Speaker 3: She didn't like being filmed or on TV or something 541 00:27:23,390 --> 00:27:25,389 Speaker 3: to that effect. And then when you read that New 542 00:27:25,430 --> 00:27:28,700 Speaker 3: York Times article- It's BS. It's BS. She loved it. 543 00:27:28,750 --> 00:27:31,330 Speaker 3: She loved being the center of attention. They pulled up 544 00:27:31,390 --> 00:27:36,220 Speaker 3: texts between her and Sonny where she was so excited 545 00:27:36,300 --> 00:27:36,820 Speaker 3: that she was. 546 00:27:36,859 --> 00:27:39,580 Speaker 1: Yes, like it's working. This PR is exactly what we need. 547 00:27:39,600 --> 00:27:41,460 Speaker 3: Yes, the PR is working. We're right on track, and- 548 00:27:42,100 --> 00:27:45,920 Speaker 3: It was all about her and loving to do TED 549 00:27:45,980 --> 00:27:51,510 Speaker 3: Talks and all of that. But she's one of those people, honestly, Lisa, 550 00:27:52,150 --> 00:27:54,469 Speaker 3: it's hard for me to believe that someone can be 551 00:27:54,550 --> 00:27:58,550 Speaker 3: that good of a liar. That's what was so fascinating 552 00:27:58,570 --> 00:28:03,629 Speaker 3: about this is that she looked at Nathan and said, 553 00:28:04,010 --> 00:28:06,350 Speaker 3: I've never told a lie. Right. 554 00:28:07,250 --> 00:28:09,609 Speaker 1: But this is what these tech people do. This is 555 00:28:09,650 --> 00:28:10,310 Speaker 1: what they do. 556 00:28:10,830 --> 00:28:14,380 Speaker 2: And I'm saying, this is a very general blanket statement, 557 00:28:14,859 --> 00:28:16,400 Speaker 2: but these people, that's what they do. 558 00:28:17,060 --> 00:28:19,720 Speaker 1: You say it until it's true. If I say it enough, 559 00:28:19,980 --> 00:28:22,010 Speaker 1: it's true. That's what they do. 560 00:28:22,030 --> 00:28:25,190 Speaker 3: When you say tech people, you mean, or just pathological liars? 561 00:28:25,890 --> 00:28:27,690 Speaker 1: A lot of them are, in my opinion. 562 00:28:28,390 --> 00:28:31,630 Speaker 2: There's this industry thing of, because you've got to get 563 00:28:31,710 --> 00:28:34,389 Speaker 2: everybody on your bandwagon. You've got to get people to 564 00:28:34,430 --> 00:28:38,150 Speaker 2: come work with you and be working for 900 hours 565 00:28:38,210 --> 00:28:41,300 Speaker 2: a day and be on the program and bring your 566 00:28:41,340 --> 00:28:43,479 Speaker 2: dog and we'll give you, you can do everything. You've 567 00:28:43,500 --> 00:28:47,170 Speaker 2: got to be on board for the mission. So they 568 00:28:47,210 --> 00:28:50,080 Speaker 2: do that. And then that's how they get all their, 569 00:28:50,170 --> 00:28:51,040 Speaker 2: their investors. 570 00:28:51,260 --> 00:28:51,520 Speaker 3: Right. 571 00:28:51,700 --> 00:28:54,300 Speaker 1: So the more you have to believe your. 572 00:28:54,160 --> 00:28:57,580 Speaker 3: Own bullshit, your own shit. Right. Yes. So there were 573 00:28:57,640 --> 00:29:02,219 Speaker 3: so many ways I felt like she was. So her manipulation, 574 00:29:02,260 --> 00:29:05,110 Speaker 3: the lies of it all were so felt like she 575 00:29:05,150 --> 00:29:10,550 Speaker 3: believed them. Also, she pulled me in when she started 576 00:29:10,650 --> 00:29:13,110 Speaker 3: flirting with Nathan. And I feel, I felt like she 577 00:29:13,150 --> 00:29:16,050 Speaker 3: was pulling him in. Yes. Oh, you did? She's like, 578 00:29:16,270 --> 00:29:19,120 Speaker 3: let's go in the water. And he's looking at her. Now, 579 00:29:19,160 --> 00:29:20,700 Speaker 3: Nathan is also curious. 580 00:29:20,720 --> 00:29:22,979 Speaker 1: He's smart. He's too smart. 581 00:29:23,660 --> 00:29:28,380 Speaker 3: Smart, but also left of center, right? Oh, definitely. 582 00:29:28,440 --> 00:29:29,100 Speaker 1: And I couldn't tell. 583 00:29:29,140 --> 00:29:31,760 Speaker 3: Yes. There were times where I thought that she was 584 00:29:31,760 --> 00:29:34,120 Speaker 3: drawing him in. I think that's. 585 00:29:33,700 --> 00:29:35,390 Speaker 1: What he wants us to think. 586 00:29:35,390 --> 00:29:39,900 Speaker 2: I think that's, he wants to show how manipulative she is. 587 00:29:40,240 --> 00:29:41,820 Speaker 3: But even at the end, when he was talking to 588 00:29:41,880 --> 00:29:47,900 Speaker 3: Amanda about her and Amanda's like, she's got you. Like she, 589 00:29:47,960 --> 00:29:51,100 Speaker 3: and Amanda is implying to him, you're in love with her. 590 00:29:51,120 --> 00:29:53,710 Speaker 3: And he's like, why are you saying that? For it 591 00:29:53,730 --> 00:29:55,810 Speaker 3: to have even gone there was so bizarre. 592 00:29:55,890 --> 00:29:58,170 Speaker 1: I know, it was so bizarre. It's so bizarre. 593 00:29:58,450 --> 00:30:00,590 Speaker 3: But I could feel it too. I mean, Listen, I 594 00:30:01,850 --> 00:30:04,450 Speaker 3: felt like Elizabeth Holmes could stare at you for 45 595 00:30:04,450 --> 00:30:07,100 Speaker 3: minutes in the eye and not say anything and pretend 596 00:30:07,120 --> 00:30:07,840 Speaker 3: like that's normal. 597 00:30:08,300 --> 00:30:09,260 Speaker 1: Yes. 598 00:30:09,780 --> 00:30:13,540 Speaker 3: Yes. Like she's looking into your soul. And he would 599 00:30:13,580 --> 00:30:15,860 Speaker 3: do it back to her. And it was so weird 600 00:30:15,960 --> 00:30:20,190 Speaker 3: and uncomfortable. And I thought, is he falling under her spell? 601 00:30:20,250 --> 00:30:21,630 Speaker 3: Am I falling under her spell? 602 00:30:22,230 --> 00:30:24,220 Speaker 2: No, I think it is a part, because even from 603 00:30:24,260 --> 00:30:27,880 Speaker 2: the beginning, it's so hilarious and genius. From the first 604 00:30:28,300 --> 00:30:33,420 Speaker 2: moment that you see Nathan, he's just staring, not into 605 00:30:33,460 --> 00:30:36,150 Speaker 2: the lens, but to the side and just watching her. 606 00:30:36,290 --> 00:30:40,470 Speaker 1: And you're like, oh, this guy thinks she's nuts. Like, 607 00:30:40,490 --> 00:30:46,290 Speaker 1: this is really. And what about this shower scene? So 608 00:30:46,330 --> 00:30:47,130 Speaker 1: there is a scene. 609 00:30:47,150 --> 00:30:48,480 Speaker 3: Oh, my God. 610 00:30:48,500 --> 00:30:53,210 Speaker 1: It's so, it just epitomizes this. what this type of 611 00:30:53,270 --> 00:30:54,030 Speaker 1: guy is like. 612 00:30:55,210 --> 00:30:57,290 Speaker 3: I'm going to fully naked. 613 00:30:57,550 --> 00:31:00,000 Speaker 2: You see his penis, you see him in the shower 614 00:31:00,120 --> 00:31:03,219 Speaker 2: and you're, and he is just like, so proud of himself. 615 00:31:03,700 --> 00:31:07,280 Speaker 3: I looked at my husband during that. And I was like, literally, 616 00:31:07,440 --> 00:31:08,640 Speaker 3: I was like, ew. 617 00:31:09,320 --> 00:31:10,220 Speaker 1: Exactly. 618 00:31:10,330 --> 00:31:12,310 Speaker 3: Like it came out of nowhere. All of a sudden 619 00:31:12,330 --> 00:31:16,530 Speaker 3: his dumb penis. Why am I seeing his stupid penis 620 00:31:16,590 --> 00:31:19,850 Speaker 3: right now? How, what context does this have? Right. 621 00:31:20,050 --> 00:31:20,250 Speaker 2: Right. 622 00:31:20,450 --> 00:31:23,010 Speaker 1: Why do you think that Fielder chose to do that? 623 00:31:23,650 --> 00:31:27,690 Speaker 3: Because the fact that he was, I don't know if 624 00:31:27,710 --> 00:31:30,060 Speaker 3: he encouraged it, how it happened, but that he was like, oh, 625 00:31:30,120 --> 00:31:33,280 Speaker 3: I'm fine with that. That in and of itself says 626 00:31:33,680 --> 00:31:38,200 Speaker 3: this guy is a poser. Yes. This guy is a, a, 627 00:31:39,240 --> 00:31:40,460 Speaker 3: not just a narcissist. 628 00:31:40,880 --> 00:31:43,940 Speaker 1: They're both narcissists to be clear, in my opinion. 629 00:31:44,280 --> 00:31:47,770 Speaker 3: Jeff, why is that penis here? What is happening? I mean, 630 00:31:48,310 --> 00:31:50,410 Speaker 3: And what was beautiful is that Nathan didn't... There was 631 00:31:50,450 --> 00:31:52,290 Speaker 3: no commenting on it. No. Nothing. 632 00:31:52,390 --> 00:31:53,490 Speaker 1: It spoke for itself. 633 00:31:53,510 --> 00:31:55,570 Speaker 3: He was just like, I am so cool that I 634 00:31:55,610 --> 00:31:57,810 Speaker 3: don't mind that the cameras are in here. Yeah. Getting 635 00:31:57,870 --> 00:32:00,690 Speaker 3: a picture of me and my big dick swinging in 636 00:32:00,730 --> 00:32:02,650 Speaker 3: the shower. Exactly. It was so stupid. 637 00:32:02,770 --> 00:32:05,490 Speaker 1: It was so dumb. I feel like... I don't know 638 00:32:05,530 --> 00:32:10,270 Speaker 1: how either of them will dig themselves out of this. 639 00:32:10,710 --> 00:32:13,280 Speaker 3: Yeah. And also, what does this do? I'm assuming she 640 00:32:13,320 --> 00:32:16,660 Speaker 3: wants to get out before her 11 years are up. So... 641 00:32:17,370 --> 00:32:19,230 Speaker 3: Was this part of that? Did they think that this 642 00:32:19,270 --> 00:32:19,770 Speaker 3: would help? 643 00:32:20,350 --> 00:32:22,970 Speaker 1: Well, this is what I think is so amazing. 644 00:32:23,030 --> 00:32:26,820 Speaker 2: And I hope that the narrative doesn't get twisted as 645 00:32:26,860 --> 00:32:31,880 Speaker 2: it often does. I hope that we see that these 646 00:32:31,940 --> 00:32:36,700 Speaker 2: are two terrible people. These are bad people. And so 647 00:32:36,880 --> 00:32:40,220 Speaker 2: we should not be drinking their Kool-Aid in any way, shape, 648 00:32:40,240 --> 00:32:40,640 Speaker 2: or form. 649 00:32:41,110 --> 00:32:44,710 Speaker 1: And Billy Evans even says, I can do anything I want. 650 00:32:45,100 --> 00:32:45,390 Speaker 3: Yes. 651 00:32:45,690 --> 00:32:48,600 Speaker 1: I know enough power for people. I can do anything 652 00:32:48,660 --> 00:32:48,980 Speaker 1: I want. 653 00:32:49,300 --> 00:32:50,920 Speaker 3: And I'm out for, what did she say? Like, I 654 00:32:50,960 --> 00:32:51,740 Speaker 3: am out for revenge. 655 00:32:51,860 --> 00:32:52,920 Speaker 1: I'm out for revenge. 656 00:32:52,940 --> 00:32:53,460 Speaker 3: Yes. 657 00:32:53,480 --> 00:32:56,580 Speaker 1: And he is just a despicable person. 658 00:32:56,760 --> 00:33:00,180 Speaker 3: Yes. How about the way that they, for whatever reason, 659 00:33:00,720 --> 00:33:01,880 Speaker 3: they got snakes. 660 00:33:01,900 --> 00:33:03,330 Speaker 1: Oh, my God. 661 00:33:03,390 --> 00:33:06,950 Speaker 3: What was that? Like, just, what was it? A lizard 662 00:33:06,990 --> 00:33:10,130 Speaker 3: or something wandering around the house? It was so creepy. Yeah. 663 00:33:10,710 --> 00:33:13,810 Speaker 2: Jen, I literally thought for a second, I was like, wait, 664 00:33:13,930 --> 00:33:16,150 Speaker 2: did I, did I fall asleep for a minute? 665 00:33:16,760 --> 00:33:19,040 Speaker 3: What happened? Why? And what's now, what now am I 666 00:33:19,080 --> 00:33:19,640 Speaker 3: looking at? 667 00:33:19,700 --> 00:33:20,480 Speaker 1: What exactly? 668 00:33:20,740 --> 00:33:24,060 Speaker 3: Yeah. So wait, so now we have big boa constrictors 669 00:33:24,120 --> 00:33:27,920 Speaker 3: or something and lizards like hanging on the floor. What's happening? 670 00:33:28,350 --> 00:33:31,150 Speaker 3: Oh my God. But this is why there was so 671 00:33:31,210 --> 00:33:34,690 Speaker 3: much to this. Cause like the last shot of Elizabeth 672 00:33:34,750 --> 00:33:37,610 Speaker 3: with her kids, um, having a picnic or whatever it 673 00:33:37,620 --> 00:33:41,310 Speaker 3: was at the prison with these babies still got me. 674 00:33:41,750 --> 00:33:42,110 Speaker 3: It did. 675 00:33:42,670 --> 00:33:45,930 Speaker 2: It made me feel sick because when he is like 676 00:33:46,350 --> 00:33:49,540 Speaker 2: laying down in the middle of, even when they weren't outside, 677 00:33:49,560 --> 00:33:52,300 Speaker 2: they were inside in the visiting area. And I just 678 00:33:52,340 --> 00:33:57,860 Speaker 2: thought that is the most entitled behavior I have ever seen. 679 00:33:58,580 --> 00:34:04,840 Speaker 2: This like just wealthy misogynist white guy who just is 680 00:34:04,860 --> 00:34:07,860 Speaker 2: going to lay down on the floor of the visiting area, 681 00:34:07,880 --> 00:34:11,300 Speaker 2: not care about anyone else who's there visiting their families, 682 00:34:11,360 --> 00:34:13,180 Speaker 2: and I'm going to play with my children. 683 00:34:13,200 --> 00:34:16,940 Speaker 1: I just found it sick. And the same thing with 684 00:34:16,960 --> 00:34:18,300 Speaker 1: the AI that he's. 685 00:34:18,219 --> 00:34:22,440 Speaker 2: Creating, taking all these photos of her so he can 686 00:34:23,060 --> 00:34:25,600 Speaker 2: give an AI version to his children. 687 00:34:25,620 --> 00:34:27,140 Speaker 1: What is that? 688 00:34:27,200 --> 00:34:30,760 Speaker 3: I don't believe that was for his children. That is insane. 689 00:34:30,910 --> 00:34:32,930 Speaker 3: But I wasn't the part with him. It was the 690 00:34:33,070 --> 00:34:36,770 Speaker 3: end of it with her. On the prison grounds, walking 691 00:34:36,830 --> 00:34:44,240 Speaker 3: outside with the kids. And she looked beaten in a way. Listen, 692 00:34:44,460 --> 00:34:47,319 Speaker 3: it's a woman and it's kids. And although I think 693 00:34:47,360 --> 00:34:54,780 Speaker 3: she is maybe the most unbelievably masterful manipulator of all time, 694 00:34:54,880 --> 00:34:58,469 Speaker 3: one of them, it still is like a mom and 695 00:34:58,489 --> 00:34:59,770 Speaker 3: the babies. And I don't know. 696 00:35:00,090 --> 00:35:02,069 Speaker 1: I feel for the kids. I don't feel for her. 697 00:35:16,260 --> 00:35:18,710 Speaker 2: Wait, quickly, we got to talk about the X account. 698 00:35:19,010 --> 00:35:23,230 Speaker 2: So Billy Evans took over. And then he says in 699 00:35:23,270 --> 00:35:27,810 Speaker 2: this way, he's just so obnoxious. He's like, well, someone 700 00:35:27,850 --> 00:35:30,670 Speaker 2: I know high up at X, I told them I 701 00:35:30,710 --> 00:35:34,370 Speaker 2: needed control of Elizabeth's account. So he takes over her 702 00:35:34,610 --> 00:35:39,570 Speaker 2: X account and starts posting these things that it doesn't 703 00:35:39,610 --> 00:35:41,930 Speaker 2: sound like it's in her voice at all, anything she 704 00:35:41,950 --> 00:35:48,200 Speaker 2: would ever say with profane entities and sort of very short-sighted. 705 00:35:48,860 --> 00:35:53,100 Speaker 2: And do you think, she says that she, do you 706 00:35:53,120 --> 00:35:54,920 Speaker 2: think that she knew about this? Do you think that 707 00:35:54,960 --> 00:35:57,480 Speaker 2: she knew about any of these posts? 708 00:35:58,080 --> 00:35:59,259 Speaker 3: You don't. No. 709 00:35:59,760 --> 00:36:01,060 Speaker 1: You think she has no idea? 710 00:36:01,080 --> 00:36:04,279 Speaker 3: It's not that, I think that she probably knew that 711 00:36:04,320 --> 00:36:09,910 Speaker 3: he was responding on Twitter. I just think that she 712 00:36:09,950 --> 00:36:11,109 Speaker 3: would defend him till the end. 713 00:36:11,530 --> 00:36:11,670 Speaker 1: Yeah. 714 00:36:11,690 --> 00:36:14,649 Speaker 3: Pretend like she didn't care. Yeah. I just think that's like, 715 00:36:15,700 --> 00:36:18,399 Speaker 3: That's the least of her problems. You know what I mean? Like, 716 00:36:18,560 --> 00:36:22,880 Speaker 3: I don't really think that she probably knew it was happening, 717 00:36:22,920 --> 00:36:24,690 Speaker 3: but probably didn't even have that much interest in it, 718 00:36:25,320 --> 00:36:28,630 Speaker 3: you know, or even minded that he was speaking for her. 719 00:36:29,110 --> 00:36:29,589 Speaker 3: What do you think? 720 00:36:30,150 --> 00:36:32,470 Speaker 1: I think she knows everything. 721 00:36:33,489 --> 00:36:37,250 Speaker 2: And I think that she just will agree with him 722 00:36:37,350 --> 00:36:41,520 Speaker 2: because let's remember, she doesn't have any money now, right? 723 00:36:41,540 --> 00:36:41,640 Speaker 3: Right. 724 00:36:42,270 --> 00:36:44,989 Speaker 2: Or anything that she makes has to go. So I'm 725 00:36:45,030 --> 00:36:48,660 Speaker 2: sure that she's secretly hidden money somewhere. I mean, I'm sure. 726 00:36:49,239 --> 00:36:53,900 Speaker 1: But essentially, she does need to have some income, and 727 00:36:54,000 --> 00:36:57,560 Speaker 1: he is that. So she. 728 00:36:58,969 --> 00:37:02,750 Speaker 2: Has to be very careful, which is clear she's brilliant 729 00:37:02,830 --> 00:37:09,340 Speaker 2: at it, of navigating these waters, of making him– feel, 730 00:37:09,660 --> 00:37:11,870 Speaker 2: but it's the same she did to all the male investors. 731 00:37:12,210 --> 00:37:16,190 Speaker 2: It's like, you know, they somehow just saw big blue 732 00:37:16,350 --> 00:37:17,589 Speaker 2: eyes or something, you know? 733 00:37:17,610 --> 00:37:20,790 Speaker 1: Yeah. I don't, she may not care. 734 00:37:21,050 --> 00:37:24,089 Speaker 2: She might be like, she's so out of touch with 735 00:37:24,690 --> 00:37:26,820 Speaker 2: what's really happening in the world. She might not care 736 00:37:26,880 --> 00:37:29,180 Speaker 2: about an ex account. I mean, I actually wouldn't care 737 00:37:29,239 --> 00:37:30,660 Speaker 2: either because it's all BS anyway. 738 00:37:30,700 --> 00:37:33,319 Speaker 3: At this point, it's like, she's got bigger fucking fish 739 00:37:33,360 --> 00:37:35,700 Speaker 3: to fry. Right. Wait, I don't want to forget about 740 00:37:35,739 --> 00:37:38,370 Speaker 3: this part. because we talked about the end and her 741 00:37:38,410 --> 00:37:40,690 Speaker 3: walking with the kids at the jail, but that was 742 00:37:40,730 --> 00:37:44,590 Speaker 3: near the end was when Nathan and Elizabeth Holmes were 743 00:37:44,760 --> 00:37:48,000 Speaker 3: in fact, swimming in the ocean together. And the fact 744 00:37:48,080 --> 00:37:52,640 Speaker 3: that he chose to leave that in, please tell me, Lisa, 745 00:37:53,320 --> 00:37:56,759 Speaker 3: I need way smarter minds than mind. What was he 746 00:37:56,800 --> 00:38:00,660 Speaker 3: trying to say with that? Like she had actually manipulated him. 747 00:38:01,239 --> 00:38:04,830 Speaker 2: One point earlier, earlier in the film, we should, say 748 00:38:05,180 --> 00:38:08,060 Speaker 2: they have a conversation where she talks about how much 749 00:38:08,120 --> 00:38:10,969 Speaker 2: she loves being in the water that it clears her 750 00:38:11,030 --> 00:38:13,989 Speaker 2: body and soul and mind and all of this and 751 00:38:14,110 --> 00:38:16,680 Speaker 2: she invites him to to go in the water because 752 00:38:16,719 --> 00:38:17,440 Speaker 2: he doesn't like it. 753 00:38:17,480 --> 00:38:18,460 Speaker 1: And you can see he's like. 754 00:38:18,500 --> 00:38:20,620 Speaker 3: He doesn't like cold water. He's like afraid of cold water. Yeah. 755 00:38:20,660 --> 00:38:23,359 Speaker 2: He's like, I don't want to do this. So then 756 00:38:23,400 --> 00:38:25,629 Speaker 2: we learn way later at the end of the film 757 00:38:25,690 --> 00:38:28,670 Speaker 2: that they actually did get in the water together. 758 00:38:28,710 --> 00:38:31,410 Speaker 3: But it was literally like... I don't remember exactly how 759 00:38:31,469 --> 00:38:33,290 Speaker 3: it went down. The credits started rolling and then all 760 00:38:33,310 --> 00:38:35,090 Speaker 3: of a sudden you see them frolicking in the water. 761 00:38:35,110 --> 00:38:36,210 Speaker 3: It was the weirdest thing. 762 00:38:36,930 --> 00:38:40,170 Speaker 1: It was weird that he chose that. But again, I think... 763 00:38:39,969 --> 00:38:40,590 Speaker 1: It was almost. 764 00:38:40,489 --> 00:38:44,200 Speaker 3: Like he was saying, even I... can be manipulated by her. 765 00:38:44,260 --> 00:38:45,120 Speaker 3: Like even. Yes. 766 00:38:45,620 --> 00:38:48,880 Speaker 1: I think, I think that's what he's trying to say. 767 00:38:49,500 --> 00:38:52,180 Speaker 3: After all of this, she even gets me a little bit. 768 00:38:52,340 --> 00:38:53,739 Speaker 1: I don't think he was manipulated by her. 769 00:38:53,760 --> 00:38:54,009 Speaker 2: I don't. 770 00:38:54,030 --> 00:38:56,320 Speaker 3: It was all intentional by him. You think he's that 771 00:38:56,840 --> 00:38:58,670 Speaker 3: smart that the whole thing was. 772 00:38:59,230 --> 00:38:59,630 Speaker 1: I think so. 773 00:38:59,670 --> 00:39:00,850 Speaker 3: He is. Damn. 774 00:39:00,890 --> 00:39:02,580 Speaker 1: That he's making a commentary about it. 775 00:39:02,610 --> 00:39:07,709 Speaker 2: Like I'm sure he did, you know, see some moments that, 776 00:39:08,690 --> 00:39:11,489 Speaker 2: you know, maybe softened him or he felt differently about, 777 00:39:11,510 --> 00:39:14,410 Speaker 2: but I think he's an, full control of this movie, 778 00:39:15,170 --> 00:39:16,930 Speaker 2: which is what I loved. 779 00:39:17,530 --> 00:39:21,380 Speaker 3: I know. So when she leaves for prison and Nathan 780 00:39:21,440 --> 00:39:24,100 Speaker 3: is saying goodbye to her and he gives her the card. 781 00:39:24,660 --> 00:39:26,830 Speaker 1: What did it say? Don't you want to know what 782 00:39:26,910 --> 00:39:27,310 Speaker 1: it said? 783 00:39:27,350 --> 00:39:28,799 Speaker 3: Well, it didn't say at the end, but it just 784 00:39:28,820 --> 00:39:31,600 Speaker 3: said from Nathan. There was no like love Nathan. 785 00:39:32,020 --> 00:39:33,380 Speaker 1: Then he gives her something to escape. 786 00:39:33,400 --> 00:39:35,950 Speaker 3: And then he gives her something like hair dye, like 787 00:39:35,989 --> 00:39:38,430 Speaker 3: in case you want to run, like a disguise. 788 00:39:38,469 --> 00:39:41,550 Speaker 1: And her parents are sitting there and he's like, oh, sorry, 789 00:39:41,590 --> 00:39:42,310 Speaker 1: this wasn't funny. 790 00:39:42,330 --> 00:39:43,930 Speaker 3: But that's the part of it also, you guys, that 791 00:39:43,969 --> 00:39:46,930 Speaker 3: like this guy is so funny. And my son said 792 00:39:46,950 --> 00:39:50,300 Speaker 3: to me, he didn't even know really about the movie. 793 00:39:50,320 --> 00:39:53,770 Speaker 3: He's like, he's a comedian. He's hilarious. He's really smart. 794 00:39:53,830 --> 00:39:56,350 Speaker 3: And he's really funny. And there's, you wouldn't, there'd be 795 00:39:56,430 --> 00:40:00,300 Speaker 3: anything funny about this story, but he infused humor into it. 796 00:40:00,350 --> 00:40:02,330 Speaker 3: And the whole audience was like laughing out loud. It's 797 00:40:02,350 --> 00:40:05,490 Speaker 3: just because it was so preposterous. It's so many parts 798 00:40:05,550 --> 00:40:08,800 Speaker 3: of this that just were, you know, you had to 799 00:40:08,820 --> 00:40:12,160 Speaker 3: just like suspend reality. It is crazy. 800 00:40:12,520 --> 00:40:16,080 Speaker 1: It is. I mean, we could talk about this for hours, literally. 801 00:40:17,040 --> 00:40:20,650 Speaker 2: So we highly recommend this film, I think we can say. 802 00:40:22,430 --> 00:40:27,150 Speaker 2: You can see everything. It's in theaters now. Everyone has 803 00:40:27,190 --> 00:40:27,670 Speaker 2: got to watch it. 804 00:40:27,670 --> 00:40:30,570 Speaker 3: It's three hours. I want to say that Amanda Seyfried 805 00:40:30,630 --> 00:40:32,790 Speaker 3: comes in like after two hours. 806 00:40:33,630 --> 00:40:35,890 Speaker 1: It's like probably halfway through. 807 00:40:36,530 --> 00:40:40,220 Speaker 3: And then about about that. And then there's this whole 808 00:40:40,340 --> 00:40:44,710 Speaker 3: other dimension, you guys, that starts, it's as if, and 809 00:40:44,750 --> 00:40:48,969 Speaker 3: I think it's very meta, but it's like the whole 810 00:40:49,010 --> 00:40:52,570 Speaker 3: thing starts again in this weird way. It is brilliant. 811 00:40:52,770 --> 00:40:56,820 Speaker 3: It is brilliant. I haven't seen anything so brilliant, so 812 00:40:57,460 --> 00:40:58,760 Speaker 3: captivating in a long time. 813 00:40:59,120 --> 00:41:03,760 Speaker 2: Limited release now, but it's opening wide in theaters this weekend. 814 00:41:04,700 --> 00:41:06,200 Speaker 1: See it and let us know what you think. 815 00:41:06,219 --> 00:41:08,480 Speaker 3: Hopefully you did see it before you listened to this because- 816 00:41:08,640 --> 00:41:11,280 Speaker 3: I know. We can't help. It can't be helped. 817 00:41:11,390 --> 00:41:12,489 Speaker 1: It can't be helped. 818 00:41:12,510 --> 00:41:14,890 Speaker 3: We cannot avoid the spoilers, you guys. It cannot be helped. 819 00:41:15,350 --> 00:41:16,670 Speaker 3: You haven't seen it. You will see why. 820 00:41:17,110 --> 00:41:17,430 Speaker 2: Yes. 821 00:41:18,130 --> 00:41:21,450 Speaker 3: But it's such also, it's just, it's so great in 822 00:41:21,489 --> 00:41:24,339 Speaker 3: terms of like me being able to reflect on how 823 00:41:24,410 --> 00:41:26,640 Speaker 3: gullible I actually am. You know what I mean? Like 824 00:41:27,800 --> 00:41:32,489 Speaker 3: looking at myself through it and saying- Did you believe her? 825 00:41:32,630 --> 00:41:34,340 Speaker 3: Were there moments where you did like, at least it 826 00:41:34,360 --> 00:41:37,060 Speaker 3: sounds like you did not period full stop from the beginning. 827 00:41:37,140 --> 00:41:38,100 Speaker 3: She got nothing on you. 828 00:41:38,520 --> 00:41:41,740 Speaker 2: I also have a little bit of bias of living 829 00:41:41,800 --> 00:41:45,339 Speaker 2: in the Bay area. And I like lived through this 830 00:41:45,400 --> 00:41:47,120 Speaker 2: in a different way, maybe then. 831 00:41:47,219 --> 00:41:50,460 Speaker 1: And again, I don't, I met her once I have that. 832 00:41:50,480 --> 00:41:54,090 Speaker 1: It means nothing. And I don't know him either. I 833 00:41:54,090 --> 00:41:57,190 Speaker 1: didn't know any of these people, but it is such 834 00:41:57,330 --> 00:42:01,610 Speaker 1: a part of the, zeitgeist of this area. 835 00:42:01,630 --> 00:42:06,160 Speaker 2: And it was so a part of my just daily life. 836 00:42:06,200 --> 00:42:07,839 Speaker 2: It was in the Chronicle every day. You know, like 837 00:42:07,860 --> 00:42:10,239 Speaker 2: this is something that I feel like I know a 838 00:42:10,420 --> 00:42:13,800 Speaker 2: lot about being a person who's not involved. 839 00:42:13,460 --> 00:42:16,020 Speaker 1: In tech, just sort of by default. 840 00:42:16,640 --> 00:42:21,219 Speaker 2: And that's why I watched all the movies. That's why 841 00:42:21,260 --> 00:42:24,580 Speaker 2: I was so engaged in it, I think. I have 842 00:42:24,620 --> 00:42:26,600 Speaker 2: to say, in some way, this is a little bit 843 00:42:26,700 --> 00:42:31,390 Speaker 2: of a lighter conversation than we normally have because these 844 00:42:31,469 --> 00:42:35,549 Speaker 2: are despicable people that are serving time, and I don't 845 00:42:35,610 --> 00:42:37,049 Speaker 2: feel compassion for them. 846 00:42:37,330 --> 00:42:40,629 Speaker 3: It is, but also there's, you know, listen, we talk 847 00:42:40,670 --> 00:42:47,210 Speaker 3: about violence and murder and it's, this is, you're right. 848 00:42:47,290 --> 00:42:49,430 Speaker 3: I mean, well, this is white collar. So maybe it's 849 00:42:49,469 --> 00:42:51,690 Speaker 3: a little, a little bit easier. I'm sure the people 850 00:42:51,710 --> 00:42:53,489 Speaker 3: that lost millions of dollars don't feel like this. 851 00:42:53,530 --> 00:42:54,210 Speaker 1: Don't feel this way. 852 00:42:54,489 --> 00:42:57,910 Speaker 3: Yes. But anyway, but also it was the documentary itself. 853 00:42:58,090 --> 00:43:00,489 Speaker 3: It was the way that he did it. It was 854 00:43:00,510 --> 00:43:04,210 Speaker 3: the fact that he managed to find humor in it 855 00:43:04,489 --> 00:43:08,489 Speaker 3: the way that it had so many different dimensions and 856 00:43:08,750 --> 00:43:11,930 Speaker 3: was so fascinating. So I do not believe that we're 857 00:43:11,950 --> 00:43:14,209 Speaker 3: the only ones who are going to want to talk 858 00:43:14,230 --> 00:43:15,910 Speaker 3: and talk and talk and talk and talk about this. 859 00:43:16,370 --> 00:43:19,609 Speaker 2: And to your point that you started this whole thought 860 00:43:19,650 --> 00:43:23,950 Speaker 2: with about your feeling like questioning, do I believe her? 861 00:43:24,050 --> 00:43:24,780 Speaker 1: Am I feeling about? 862 00:43:24,910 --> 00:43:28,080 Speaker 2: I think it's important to note that we all come 863 00:43:28,200 --> 00:43:34,460 Speaker 2: through this with our own set of circumstances and understanding 864 00:43:34,719 --> 00:43:40,180 Speaker 2: about being manipulated about being a woman who's then judged. 865 00:43:40,300 --> 00:43:43,720 Speaker 2: Like there's a whole host of things that are going 866 00:43:43,840 --> 00:43:47,070 Speaker 2: on here, I think for any individual person. And then, 867 00:43:47,620 --> 00:43:50,650 Speaker 2: you know, you have the actual facts. So we're all 868 00:43:50,670 --> 00:43:51,810 Speaker 2: going to have feelings. 869 00:43:52,270 --> 00:43:54,710 Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, we are. I mean, that's, that's, that is 870 00:43:54,750 --> 00:43:57,009 Speaker 3: probably what it is, right. More than anything. It's not 871 00:43:57,030 --> 00:44:01,100 Speaker 3: like it, it, I'm looking at myself and my reactions, right? 872 00:44:01,200 --> 00:44:03,360 Speaker 3: And so I'm just saying, we haven't even gotten to, 873 00:44:03,460 --> 00:44:05,560 Speaker 3: we won't, we don't have time now, but to the 874 00:44:05,660 --> 00:44:09,279 Speaker 3: rapper who created the billboards. Oh my God. I mean, 875 00:44:09,300 --> 00:44:10,910 Speaker 3: that was like a whole other piece of this. That's 876 00:44:10,930 --> 00:44:11,839 Speaker 3: a whole other piece. 877 00:44:11,969 --> 00:44:14,509 Speaker 2: Okay, guys, you've got to watch this movie and then 878 00:44:14,550 --> 00:44:16,770 Speaker 2: come back and talk to us about him and the 879 00:44:16,830 --> 00:44:18,170 Speaker 2: billboards and the things. 880 00:44:18,210 --> 00:44:19,250 Speaker 1: We'll leave you with that. 881 00:44:21,510 --> 00:44:24,029 Speaker 3: Thank you for joining us. Thank you. This was a 882 00:44:24,030 --> 00:44:24,240 Speaker 3: good one. 883 00:44:24,590 --> 00:44:25,629 Speaker 1: This was a great one. 884 00:44:25,890 --> 00:44:28,850 Speaker 3: I'm a huge Nathan Fielder fan now. I'll be following 885 00:44:28,910 --> 00:44:30,189 Speaker 3: in his every move. 886 00:44:30,590 --> 00:44:32,310 Speaker 1: I can't wait to see if this gets nominated for 887 00:44:32,330 --> 00:44:32,790 Speaker 1: an Oscar. 888 00:44:33,910 --> 00:44:37,129 Speaker 3: Thank you so much for joining us, you guys. Thanks, everyone. 889 00:44:37,150 --> 00:44:38,730 Speaker 3: We appreciate you. See the movie.